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Wikipedia:Requested moves/Current discussions (alt)

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This page lists all requests filed or identified as potentially controversial which are currently under discussion.

This list is also available in a discussion-link-first format and in table format. 75 discussions have been relisted.

November 10, 2024

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November 9, 2024

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November 8, 2024

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November 7, 2024

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November 6, 2024

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November 5, 2024

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References

  1. ^ https://www.istiadat.gov.my/semakan-penerima-darjah-kebesaran-bintang-dan-pingat/
Sreeking (talk) 00:08, 29 October 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 07:00, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 4, 2024

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November 3, 2024

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Elapsed listings

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The 7-day listing period has elapsed. Items below may be closed if there's a consensus, or if discussion has run its course and consensus could not be achieved.

Backlog

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Elapsed listings fall into the backlog after 24 hours. Consider relisting 8-day-old discussions with minimal participation.
  • List of organizations that self-identify as Native American tribes → List of groups not recognized by the United States as tribes – (Discuss) – In reviewing the previous discussion on the list title, I noticed significant confusion and disorganization. So to review the previously proposed titles: * List of Native American heritage groups * List of unrecognized Indigenous nations * List of unrecognized Native American tribes * List of unrecognized tribes in the United States * List of corporations posing as Indigenous nations * List of corporations self-identifying as Indigenous nations * List of groups that self-identify as Native American tribes * List of organizations self-identifying as Native American tribes * List of unrecognized organizations identifying as Native American tribes * List of unrecognized organizations that self-identify as Native American tribes In summary, the proposed variations: * The main noun: groups, nations, tribes, organizations, corporations * The descriptor: "Indigenous", "Native American", "in the United States" * The qualifier: "posing as", "identifying as" "self-identifying as", "that self-identify as" "unrecognized", "heritage" Now the stated purpose of the move was WP:CONCISE, WP:PRECISE. These principles emphasize that titles should be no longer than necessary yet descriptive and precise enough to convey the topic clearly to those familiar with the subject matter. However, these principles weren't directly addressed in the discussion and appeared only as boilerplate guidance in the move dialog. Let's evaluate the proposals based on concision and precision: * Main noun: On the basis of concision, "groups" and "tribes" are the best options. In fact, it was noted that "groups" was less wordy. Yet instead an argument was made based on WP:CONSISTENCY, identifying WikiProject Organizations, which is not even a mainspace page. A search of mainspace shows that both groups and organizations are used, with about 736 group lists vs. 528 organization lists. As such, consistency, to the extent there is any when it is so close to 50/50, agrees with concision in using the shorter choice "groups". * Descriptor: While calling these groups "tribes" is controversial, labeling them as "self-identified Native American tribes" is also problematic. For example, the Cherokee Nation identifies itself as a tribe, but including it on this list would be inappropriate. Additionally, "Indigenous" raises broader issues related to colonialism. Descriptions limited to "United States" are more neutral, although not without controversy, as seen in discussions on topics like secessionists and the sovereign citizen movement, but currently those positions are considered WP:FRINGE so it seems safe to use. * Qualifier: "Heritage" is the most concise, as it doesn't require an "as" clause, but it was mentioned that some organizations claim Native American heritage without identifying as having tribal status. A title like "List of United States heritage groups" makes clear that this word does not capture the scope of the desired list. "Unrecognized" is clear and concise - in the previous discussion, it was left out as it made the title "slightly shorter and simpler", but I would argue it is necessary. "Identify" and "self-identify" are not precise enough to distinguish federally recognized tribes from unrecognized tribes. As for "posing", it seems clear it would be a separate list from the current one under discussion. Although, there was the statement that "reliable sources on legitimacy are not 'very scarce'. It really isn't 'muddy' if you're familiar with the field", so perhaps this list will split in the future into "list of legitimate unrecognized tribes" and "list of posers". So this leaves us with the words "groups", "tribes", "United States", and "unrecognized". Plug those through the title generator and... out comes "List of groups not recognized by the United States as tribes". This title seems clear, neutral, and concise in adherence with Wikipedia's guidelines. To compare lengths: * Previous: List of unrecognized tribes in the United States, 48 chars * Current: List of organizations that self-identify as Native American tribes, 66 chars * Proposed: List of groups not recognized as tribes by the United States, 60 chars The proposed title is similar to the previous one but avoids the appearance of potential bias. In a similar discussion, it was determined that the title "List of organizations designated by the Southern Poverty Law Center as hate groups" was necessary over the shorter alternative "List of hate groups designated by the Southern Poverty Law Center" for clarity and neutrality. And the proposed title here is both more concise and precise than the current option. Other variations would be: * List of Native American groups not recognized by the United States as tribes, 76 chars * List of groups the United States does not recognize as tribes, 61 chars * List of groups unrecognized as tribes by the United States, 58 chars However, these alternatives are either longer or use awkward phrasing. Mathnerd314159 (talk) 17:17, 25 October 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 04:20, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • First Battle of Panipat → First battle of Panipat – (Discuss) – These are mostly lowercase in sources, until a recent uptick in caps likely influenced by Wikipedia, and still not close to the MOS:CAPS threshold of "consistently capitalized" in reliable sources. Dicklyon (talk) 16:21, 25 October 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 04:19, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • 2024 The Republicans alliance crisis → 2024 The Republicans (France) crisis – (Discuss) – As it was already argued above, the article is and should be focused on the internal crisis within The Republicans (France) party. Its alignment in the 2024 French legislative election was only the final issue of several debates that have divided the party over the years. I agree with User:Paul Vaurie's initial proposal, while I am less convinced by the outcome of the previous discussion, the current name that was proposed by User:Couruu. Surely, "2024 The Republicans (France) crisis" would also be consistent with 2016 The Republicans (France) presidential primary, 2017 The Republicans (France) leadership election, 2019 The Republicans (France) leadership election and 2022 The Republicans (France) leadership election (2021 The Republicans congress should be moved), as well as several other articles including 2024 Liberal Democratic Party (Japan) presidential election. -- Checco (talk) 13:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Arnav Bhate (talk • contribs) 06:02, 18 October 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 09:18, 25 October 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 04:18, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neopanax colensoi → Pseudopanax colensoi – (Discuss) – WP:COMMONNAME and WP:FLORA - overwhelming usage within recent scientific papers, despite mixed use in taxonomic databases. Without a clear scientific basis for a preference of one name over the other, MOS:ENGVAR/MOS:TIES: that there is a clear consensus among New Zealand scientific sources for a clade of plants endemic to New Zealand. *Neopanax and Pseudopanax together form a clade. Currently there are three morphological forms of the species within this clade - two are always described as Pseudopanax, while one (the more basal form) is sometimes described as Neopanax and sometimes Pseudopanax. page 52 of this thesis has a useful graph showing phylogenetic relationships within the group. Neopanax was synonymised with Pseudopanax in the 20th century, re-established as a genus in 2004, but the justification of this was disputed in 2009. The distinction appears to be one based on conventions rather than a clear scientific justification (i.e. less based on whether or not Neopanax is a distinct clade within Pseudopanax, and more based on whether it's justified to use a different name for this clade, or to continue to use the pre-2004 convention). This issue was previously discussed at WikiProject Plants. *Different taxonomical databases use different preferred names. Pseudopanax is overwhelmingly used by New Zealand databases. **Pseudopanax preferred: NZ Flora, Biota of New Zealand, IUCN, iNaturalist, NZOR and NZTCS **Neopanax preferred: CoL, EoL, GBIF, IRMNG, NCBI, OTOL, POWO *Recent scientific sources outside of taxonomic databases overwhelmingly prefer Pseudopanax. Looking at Post-2020 Google Scholar results for species within the Neopanax clade:

Prosperosity (talk) 00:57, 6 October 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Reading Beans 08:05, 13 October 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. FOARP (talk) 14:44, 25 October 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 04:13, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly incomplete requests

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See "Request all associated moves explicitly"

References

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References generally should not appear here. Use {{reflist-talk}} in the talk page section with the requested move to show references there.
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