Talk:Tag Team (group)

Barack Obama and Michelle Obama in the "Whoomp There It Is" Video

I agree that the gentleman at 1:01 is either Barack Obama or so similar in appearance he could get a job as an impersonator. He even has the same facial mole. However, the lady at 0:47, though somewhat similar to Michelle Obama in appearance today, does not closely resemble Michelle in the early 1990s as seen here http://www.dancewithshadows.com/celebrity/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/michelle-obama-8.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.64.156.1 (talk) 16:40, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

No, per WP:Reliable sources. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 17:39, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

It's been picked up by Huffington Post now - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/07/was-obama-in-an-early-90s_n_603177.html President Obama has neither confirmed nor denied being in the music video. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.64.156.1 (talk) 06:17, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Requested move 28 June 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Nearly every other participant seems to want their own option, making it apparent that no consensus is going to arise here. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 18:04, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

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Tag Team (group) → Tag Team (hip hop duo) – There are only two people in the act, so they are a duo and not a group. "Duo" has a precedent for use, such as Trout Fishing in America (duo), Love and Theft (duo), Black Caviar (duo), and Black Star (rap duo). Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 00:36, 28 June 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Natg 19 (talk) 01:06, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose (hip hop duo) or (rap duo) would be better, the moment it becomes duo it suggests wrestling. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:14, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

• @In ictu oculi: Changed accordingly. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 19:35, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose "(group)" is fine per WP:BANDDAB; if it ain't WP:BROKE... 162 etc. (talk) 02:58, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

  They're not a group though. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 14:55, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

• Move back to Tag Team, the article's original title, per WP:DIFFCAPS. Notice the recent pageviews for this article are close to those for tag team (last year the duo had 10 times as many views). 4 readers per day are heading to the dab page because they can't get where they want by typing capitalized "Tag Team". Second best, if any disambiguation were necessary, would be to move to Tag Team (duo) as preferred at WP:BANDDAB "when the musical ensemble is a duet". Additional disambiguation would be needed only if there was another duo with the same name. Otherwise leave as is. Station1 (talk) 08:26, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Oppose move to Tag Team, support a move to Tag Team (duo) instead. 2600:6C40:5400:766:9CFE:FC96:826:4606 (talk) 10:44, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 10 October 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Yet again. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 18:06, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

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Tag Team (group) → ? – The last RM fizzled out due to no one agreeing on anything, so let's try this again. I am proposing either of the two options:

1. Move to Tag Team (duo) per the precedent of using "(duo)" in disambiguations (e.g. Trout Fishing in America (duo), Love and Theft (duo)). They are not a "group" as they consist of only two people. @162 etc.: failed to address this in the last RM when questioned. Despite another comment, the term "duo" is far from exclusive to wrestling, and I doubt anyone will be confused.
2. Move to Tag Team as per WP:DIFFCAPS and the page view stats in the last RM, which suggest that most people looking for "Tag Team" with both T's capitalized are indeed looking for the musical duo. (hat tip to @Station1:) Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 22:32, 10 October 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 20:54, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. Same as last time. 162 etc. (talk) 22:38, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

  They're not a group though, and "(duo)" is an acceptable modifier. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 22:44, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. No problem with the current title. A group is more than one. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:32, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

  @162 etc.: @Necrothesp:: I suggest you read Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(music)#Musical_individuals_and_groups. When the musical ensemble is a duet (meaning two people), use "(duo)" instead of "group" 23.84.172.8 (talk) 20:46, 13 October 2022 (UTC).

  As has already been stated, a tag team duo suggests wrestling rather than music. I would not object to Tag Team (hip hop duo), however. -- Necrothesp (talk) 08:23, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

• Support move to the original title Tag Team, from which it was removed unilaterally and, in my opinion, needlessly. Acceptable, as has been pointed out, under WP:DIFFCAPS. There is no need for a disambiguator at all and, in general, a title shouldn't include a disambiguator when one is not needed. Largoplazo (talk) 10:18, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
• Support move back to Tag Team per Largoplazo's comment directly above and my comment in the previous RM. Station1 (talk) 19:21, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. A two-person group is still a group. Also, strong oppose suggestion of moving to "Tag Team" with no disambiguator. A Tag Team is a tag team, and the WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT is correct there. Expecting readers to know the difference between a title in title case and a title in sentence case, for a case where the group are not hugely well-known, is not correct.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:24, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Relisting comment: (duo) seems to be out. So (group) or no (group)? — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 20:54, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

• Move to Tag Team (duo). "Group" is generally used for more than 2 people. "Duo" is a common way to refer to a musical group of 2. Rreagan007 (talk) 22:34, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 16 October 2024

Tag Team (group) → Tag Team (duo) – They're a duo, not a group. Exactly two people. "Duo" is an acceptable disambiguation per Trout Fishing in America (duo), Love and Theft (duo), et al. I think the last two move requests got muddied because some were pulling for whether or not the disambiguator should be added at all, but this time I am only pushing for a move to "Tag Team (duo)" because, well, they are a duo, not a group. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 19:23, 16 October 2024 (UTC) — Relisting.  ASUKITE 15:52, 25 October 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 04:11, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. This is the third time that OP has nominated this, and nothing has changed since the first two RMs. See WP:BROKE. 162 etc. (talk) 20:15, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

  @162 etc.: See also WP:CCC. The last one was two years ago. No one addressed in the last two why they think "duo" is wrong, when there's precedent for it. The last two RMs had literally everyone pulling in a different direction, which I think got muddied by discussion about whether or not the article should have a disambiguation at all. No one gave a policy-based reason objecting to the use of "duo", when they are a duo and "duo" can be used in article names. My hope is to finally get some unity here without the distractions that came up in the last two RMs. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 21:16, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

  My opposition remains. There's nothing wrong with the current title, which is also supported by the naming convention at WP:BANDDAB. There are numerous articles at Category:American hip hop duos that are disambiguated with (group), and those titles are all fine too. 162 etc. (talk) 21:59, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

  @162 etc.: Then those should be renamed to "duo" too, as WP:DUO supports the use of "duo" for two-person acts. That they haven't already is immaterial to this discussion IMO. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 17:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

• Support Per WP:DUO, where it is clearly stated that duos should use the disambiguation "duo". Just because some are not using it doesn't mean it isn't wrong. We should avoid WP:BUREAUCRACY like quibbling over existing names and look clearly at the policies. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 02:31, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Note: I also debate the idea that it will be confused with wrestling terminology. It's a proper name and clearly capitalized. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 05:52, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

• Rename to Tag Team (hip hop group). A tag team is also a group (and can also be a duo). -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:52, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

• @Necrothesp: Tag Team, the musical act, is not a group though. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 17:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
  • A group is any number greater than one! I have no particular objection to Tag Team (hip hop duo), but it does need the further disambiguator for clarity. -- Necrothesp (talk) 07:27, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

• Neutral as between "group" or "duo" (but do create "duo" as a redirect if not moved) but oppose unnecessary WP:OVERPRECISION of adding "hip hop" to disambiguator as there are no non-hip-hop groups/duos with a WP article. Best would be to move back to original title of plain Tag Team per WP:DIFFCAPS since a generic tag team is not the primary topic for capitalized "Tag Team" (see pageviews). That would also solve the group versus duo dilemma. Station1 (talk) 18:04, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
  • As I've said before, disambiguation is intended to help our readers, not to pander to the smugness of Wikipedia insiders. A tag team is a group and can also be a duo, capitalised or not. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:25, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
    • We're all trying to help our readers, even when we disagree about how best to do so. A tag team is a team and normally referred to as such. Yes, we can be pedantic and say they are also technically groups and/or duos, but virtually no one will search for them that way. But we're not even talking about tag team (group) or tag team (duo). We're talking about Tag Team, and there are probably no readers at all who would bother to both capitalize the term and add "duo" or "group" to the end of that capitalized term and expect an article about tag teams. What actually helps most readers searching for capitalized Tag Team is to wind up at the article they actually most likely want, and that would be an article about Tag Team. Station1 (talk) 00:40, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Pop music, WikiProject Hip hop, and WikiProject Musicians have been notified of this discussion. ASUKITE 15:51, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Relisting comment: As neither of the previous RMs seem to include notes about project notifications, I am hoping this and the relist will help us finally reach consensus. ASUKITE 15:52, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

• Rename to Tag Team (hip hop duo). On "group" versus "duo", I see duo as a subtype of group so there's no strong necessity to move, but at the same time if someone wants to push this hard for that title no reason to reject it. On whether to include "hip hop" I find Necrothesp's articulation more convincing. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 16:35, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

  No objection to Tag Team (hip-hop duo) * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 21:26, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

• Support original proposal. "Duo" is the preferable DAB under WP:DUO; however, I think the combination of the DIFFCAPS and the disambiguator will be sufficient to clarify to readers that this article subject is distinct from tag team, so I believe that adding "hip hop" would be WP:OVERPRECISION. A hatnote to tag team could also be helpful if we want to be extra diligent. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 17:17, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
• Prefer Tag Team with no disamb per Station1 here and in prior RMs, along with other editors, in prior RMs. Not clear why the original title was moved. A hat note to Tag team (disambiguation) is reasonable. Weak support for Tag Team (duo) per nom and additional rationale per ModernDayTrilobite, ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ as second choice and reasonable compromise with editors who feel some disambiguation is preferable. I'm sympathetic to the WP:BROKE argument but Tag Team and Tag Team (duo) are better grounded in WP naming policy and practice. Adding "hip hop" is clearly over precision and should not be considered. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 00:46, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
• Rename to Tag Team (hip hop duo) or Tag Team (hip-hop duo). A duo is a group, and a tag team is a group, and a tag team is also typically a duo. A capital letter is not enough to make clear what the topic is here. In the suggested parenthetical, "hip hop" is a compound modifier of "duo", so it may benefit from a hyphen. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:22, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
• Rename to Tag Team (hip-hop duo). Include the hyphen, required per MOS:HYPHEN; "hip-hop" here is a compound adjective, not a noun phrase. Any tag[-]team of any sort (e.g. in wrestling) is likely to be a duo, and a one-letter capitalization difference is rarely sufficient WP:SMALLDIFFS, especially when various readers have a bad habit of over-capitalizing anything to do with sports and entertainment (e.g. wrestling terms). WP:DUO permits use of "duo" instead of "group" or "band" as a disambiguator, and it is more WP:PRECISE. I support Zxcvbnm's suggestion that other duo acts should be renamed with "(duo)" as needed. But only when they are exclusively a duo, not just presently or often a duo but sometimes some other configuration; any given reader may be familiar with a subject only from within a specific time period. (That said, do not count temporary personnel, e.g. backup singers on a track, or support keyboardists at a concert); just count official members of the act. It would be better to handle that cleanup as a mass-RM, instead of a zillion individual RMs.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  21:00, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
• Support per nom. "(duo)" is a more appropriate disambiguator than "(group)" here, and "(hip-hop duo)" is unnecessary overkill, even though a tag team is typically a duo. And omitting the disambiguator is not a good idea for such an over-used ambiguous term. Dicklyon (talk) 01:51, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Final relist. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 04:11, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Tag Team (duo) per WP:DUO. The "hip-hip" disambiguator is overprecise. मल्ल (talk) 15:12, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Tag Team (duo) per WP:DUO. The "hip-hip" disambiguator is WP:OVERPRECISION. Cinderella157 (talk) 01:09, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Tag Team (duo) per WP:DUO. Theparties (talk) 00:36, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per my arguments in the last RM. They are still a group, even if there are only two of them. And per WP:GROUPDAB - "Use "(group)" when the musical ensemble members do not perform by playing musical instruments, the members are mainly vocalists, and other people perform by playing musical instruments.". This makes no mention of a carve-out for groups with only two members.  — Amakuru (talk) 13:01, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Amakuru: WP:DUO supports the use of (duo) if the act is a duo, regardless of whether or not they perform instruments. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 19:20, 11 November 2024 (UTC)