User talk:Michael Aurel

Melera AfD

Hi Michael - I noticed that you nominated Melera for deletion in this edit but don't seem to have completed the process. You still need to create the AfD page with your deletion rationale and add the article to the AfD log. Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 08:21, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, thanks. Something came up in real life which pulled me away from Wikipedia for several hours. – Michael Aurel (talk) 09:13, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You were away from Wikipedia for several hours? tsk tsk. Paul August ☎ 11:33, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Great - just wanted to check you hadn't forgotten! Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 09:34, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, of course. – Michael Aurel (talk) 13:58, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nyx

Excellent work at Nyx. Sorry to have stepped on your toes a bit, easily done when two editors are editing the same article at the same time. I had been getting ready to add Fowler 2000, and cites to Fowler 2000's Acusilas frr. 6b, 6c, when you beat me to the punch! I think it's all straightened out now ;-) Paul August ☎ 12:48, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Paul August: Thankyou! Yes, I saw the massive removal and (for a moment) went "oh no, have I done something wrong?". I'll go through and finish sourcing that section (some cites missing in the middle paragraph), then I'll hopefully get to writing the rest of the page. – Michael Aurel (talk) 12:54, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the "oh no", and I will now look forward with expectant pleasure to other fine work there. Paul August ☎ 13:35, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also, a small bird came to me and told me that you are thinking of rewriting the pages of *all* of Nyx's children ;-). It will be good to see, some of those articles leave a fair bit to be desired... – Michael Aurel (talk) 12:57, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes well, if you consult that same "bird", you will realize I've been thinking about working on lots of things for a long time, so feel free to think about any of these yourself. Paul August ☎ 13:35, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, your list gets ever longer... – Michael Aurel (talk) 13:42, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Beethoven's Birth and Death Country

There is no need to garner a consensus on the talk page of the Beethoven article to be inclusive of these facts. They are present on every single other biography of a person born after about 1750 with any kind of notability. Please refer to the note I left on my first edit. Nikolai Gennadievich Nazarov (talk) 04:46, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Nikolai Gennadievich Nazarov: there is, because, as the two invisible comments which you removed state: "ATTENTION EDITORS, do NOT add anything here without finding consensus on the talk page. It is intentionally concise". If you want to make such a change, you need to have first gained a consensus on the article's talk page. You've already been reverted by another editor. – Michael Aurel (talk) 04:59, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This has no clear origin. It was likely placed by an older editor with no certification to set such parameters. Unless there is a new reason presented, I will keep the edit up per the aforementioned reasons. Nikolai Gennadievich Nazarov (talk) 08:28, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why don't you just say the same thing on the Beethoven talk? Regardless of what led to it. (It was debated for a long time if Beethoven should have any infobox, and when implemented, to keep it concise. Consensus may have changed since, but you need to establish that.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:56, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, please take this to Beethoven's talk page. That is the appropriate location for this discussion, not here. – Michael Aurel (talk) 09:09, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Notice of noticeboard discussion

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is User:NebY (edit-war and vandalism). Thank you. You have not been accused of doing anything wrong, but I should let you know you've been mentioned. — NebY (talk) 12:37, 28 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, thanks. I've seen it, and I'll add something if I think there's anything of value that I can add. – Michael Aurel (talk) 12:40, 28 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That may be quite a big "if". :) I can't yet see much point in saying a lot myself. NebY (talk) 12:45, 28 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes... – Michael Aurel (talk) 12:58, 28 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Request for inputs

@Michael Aurel

Hi, Recently you seem to have contributed to the article Zeus. Since I am working on the article draft Indian sceptre which has a small mention to Zeus. Requesting your visit to the article and share your inputs if possible.

Thanks Bookku (talk) 05:53, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, I have little to no knowledge of such a topic, which sits quite outside my field of interest. I don't think there is anything I can add. – Michael Aurel (talk) 13:16, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No issues, such reach out was part of my usual effort to make my article drafts thorough and neutral as much possible. Wish you happy editing and cheers. thanks - Bookku (talk) 10:01, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Question

Why do you always remove stuff if it’s not mentioned in the article? 23.242.174.8 (talk) 01:39, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm assuming you mean from infoboxes. I would recommend reading WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE; infoboxes should be a summary of key pieces of information which are in the article, meaning something contained there should both be mentioned in the article, and significant enough to be considered a key fact about the article's subject. Infoboxes are designed to allow readers to identify key facts at a glance, and, if the infobox contains 4 or more parentages, for example, this is made more difficult; it is better to keep just the one or two most significant ones. – Michael Aurel (talk) 02:08, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete my Accounts

Hello mr Michael Aurel. Can you please delete all of my Wikipedia accounts like Akatora, Fuyujin, Greatgeo and Akaowl please???? All of those accounts belong to me. 2A02:587:1F0B:5200:C136:B22E:CA9A:8C96 (talk) 16:11, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Accounts can't be deleted, see WP:UNC. Paul August ☎ 16:24, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As has been explained to you numerous times, you are blocked from editing Wikipedia. This means that, if you want to edit, you need to log back into your account and appeal your block. I don't plan on keeping any more messages which you post here. – Michael Aurel (talk) 21:29, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Link for my own convenience. – Michael Aurel (talk) 21:50, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I continue ...

... to be impressed by your work at Nyx, particularly the section on the Orphic theogonies. As I'm sure you are discovering, Orphism is a vague, controversial and tangled mess of a subject, and often avoided for this reason.^[1] So good work! Paul August ☎ 14:11, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Paul August: Thankyou, that is very kind of you. I am indeed enjoying the knotty and tortuous nature of Orphic literature, though I am noticing shortcomings in our coverage of Orphism overall, likely because few (other that yourself) have been willing to tackle the area. Pages such as Phanes and Ananke could do with some work (not to mention Orphism itself...), and I think we would benefit from having articles on the four theogonies (plans for the future!). – Michael Aurel (talk) 23:54, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome. And thank you for describing my remarks and me as being kind. I would describe my remarks as being well-deserved, and me as being grateful. As for our coverage of Orphism, saying that it has "shortcomings" is something of understatement. So go to, go to. Paul August ☎ 10:59, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Plato famously described Orphic literature as a "hubbub of books". Martin West describes Orphism as having attracted a "motley crowd of romantics and mystics, of imposters and poetasters, of dizzy philosophers and disoriented scholars" and having become "all things to all men". Radcliff Edmonds compares the term 'Orphic' in its vaugeness to 'New Age'. Dwayne Meisner writes "in order to research this bizarre ancient phenominon we call Orphism, one must stand upon the shoulders of some of the biggest giants in Classical scholarship, and at the same time dive into the midst of one of the biggest debates on Greek religion. No wonder many shy away from it."

hi, Michael

but it was the other guy who started removing my edits for no decent reason! but ok i'll pass the information on to another party as the other works Dinosauro47 (talk) 20:17, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Dinosauro47: My purpose in reverting you was simply to stop the edit war. I understand that your edits were sourced, though, and the content can be added back assuming it is reworked in a more suitable manner. I would be happy to discuss the matter at Talk:Hades now; just please don't revert again. – Michael Aurel (talk) 20:23, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also, there is no reason to copy and paste the same message and insert it into old discussions here, I have seen what you have written. I have removed those duplicates. – Michael Aurel (talk) 20:27, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, no problem, I just did that to get your attention as quickly as possible. Dinosauro47 (talk) 20:44, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Alright. There is no hurry though, the article will be here tomorrow. I will reply at Talk:Hades. – Michael Aurel (talk) 21:04, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't forgotten

I promised to prepare some more of the offspring tables for you, then got busy off-wiki and haven't caught up yet. Sorry – I haven't forgotten! Your great work on Ares shows again how worthwhile it is. NebY (talk) 21:52, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. It's of course just if you have the time (or inclination). I will get around (very slowly ;) to adding the full tables myself. – Michael Aurel (talk) 22:36, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

August 2023 Good Article Nominations backlog drive

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You're receiving this message because you have reviewed or nominated a good article in the last year. (t · c) buidhe 05:15, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Zagreus

Re this edit, I haven't thought much about that article since I wrote most of it six years (or so) ago. In particular, since there was at that time an ongoing debate surrounding the sparagmos, the anthropogony and Orphism, I would not be surprised if an update of that part of the article was warranted. For example Meisner's book was unavailable at the time, and would be a very useful source. It's a very interesting subject, and I would encourage you take a look at our article with an eye to updating it as you think needed. Paul August ☎ 14:21, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Zagreus of course represents a very tricky and complex topic for an article, but I think the sentence However, when and to what extent there existed any Orphic tradition which included these elements is the subject of open debate essentially covers the debate of the last 20 or so years. The main possibility for expansion would probably be elaborating on this and presenting the views of a few of the more prominent scholars in recent times (such as Edmonds, Bernabé, and Brisson), and, as you say, implementing a few sources which have been written since your work at that article (e.g. Meisner, Chrysanthou, Heinrichs). I don't think there is anything at that page which is actually out of date in any way, mostly because your work there is a very faithful representation of the ancient sources, but there are probably places where older sources (e.g. Guthrie, Linforth) could be phased out a bit, and we could also add Bernabé's edition alongside Kern for the fragments. It is a very interesting subject, and it would make a good project.

To get your opinion on this, would you agree that an article on Orphic literature would be a good idea? I think it represents a sufficiently distinct topic from Orphism (religion) to justify a separate article, and I am dissatisfied with the current section at our page there, particularly because the word "religion" in brackets in the title seems to imply the notion that the theogonies are the "texts of the 'Orphic religion'", or something to this effect (a largely outdated view), though moving the page to just "Orphism" might also solve this issue? – Michael Aurel (talk) 02:56, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, a separate article on Orphic literature would be warranted, if for no other reason than to distinguish that topic from "Orphism" as a religion or whatever else it might be or have been. As for the disambiguator "religion", I agree it is misleading, but I can't think of a better one. So I would be in favor of moving it to just "Orphism", but given Orphism (art), we would have to have a convincing argument that this Orphism is the primary topic first. Otherwise I think we may be stuck we Orphism (religion). Paul August ☎ 14:33, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I would assume that Orphism constitutes the primary topic, though I can't claim to know a whole lot about modern art, and those who do might disagree, so accepting the current title is probably the easiest solution. I'm glad you think a page on Orphic literature is a good idea; it will be a big project, but it will hopefully fill a noticeable gap in our coverage here. – Michael Aurel (talk) 23:02, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Seven against Thebes

Hi. Honestly, I must have messed up with some AWB settings. I apologize for making that edit again. Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 22:37, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, I thought it may have been a mistake. All good. – Michael Aurel (talk) 22:48, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Wikiproject

Hi, I see you're a member of WP:Mythology, would you be interested in a sub project on WP:Anthropology on oral tradition? Kowal2701 (talk) 14:45, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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[1] Plato famously described Orphic literature as a "hubbub of books". Martin West describes Orphism as having attracted a "motley crowd of romantics and mystics, of imposters and poetasters, of dizzy philosophers and disoriented scholars" and having become "all things to all men". Radcliff Edmonds compares the term 'Orphic' in its vaugeness to 'New Age'. Dwayne Meisner writes "in order to research this bizarre ancient phenominon we call Orphism, one must stand upon the shoulders of some of the biggest giants in Classical scholarship, and at the same time dive into the midst of one of the biggest debates on Greek religion. No wonder many shy away from it."

[1]