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December 31

[edit]
December 31, 2019 (2019-12-31) (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

(Posted) 2019–20 Australian bushfire season

[edit]
Article: 2019–20 Australian bushfire season (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC, CNN, Guardian impressively I got these by Googling for the word "Australia", not even using the word "bushfire" → AP, Reuters
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Been seeing this in the news for quite a while Banedon (talk) 07:39, 31 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"On 30 December, there were three active fires in East Gippsland on Sunday with a combined area of more than 130,000ha" GreatCaesarsGhost 15:59, 31 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I would support moving this and the Citizenship Amendment Act protests up onto the bullet points if someone wants to suggest a blurb or photo, actually. I see them as more important than at least two of the items there. Blythwood (talk) 05:48, 1 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The Citizenship act was already posted as a blurb and would be inappropriate again. Ongoing is correct for that. For these Aussie fires, the problem is that they have been ongoing for several months, only now that they have started to have more threatening effects are the rest of the world taking notice. A blurb would not make sense here while ongoing is perfect. --Masem (t) 06:15, 1 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If things get any worse, I think we might consider a blurb. Wars go on for a long time too, but now and then there are significant developments that make news. AP puts total deaths in Australia fires at 17 .– Sca (talk) 15:24, 1 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Note: 4,000 people stuck on burning beach in Mallacoota. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:56, 1 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
ITN items are ordered chronologically, not in order of "importance".--WaltCip (talk) 17:11, 1 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Sonny Mehta

[edit]
Article: Sonny Mehta (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Person is notable and passed recently. I have updated the article and it is in good shape to appear on front page.  Harshil want to talk? 11:20, 31 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

December 30

[edit]
December 30, 2019 (2019-12-30) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

(Posted) RD: Harry Kupfer

[edit]
Article: Harry Kupfer (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Der Spiegel, Die Zeit (in German), AP (in English)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Stage director in Dresden, Berlin, Bayreuth - when Germany was still divided, a rare thing - and the world. There was no uninteresting moment in the productions I saw, - even the last choir member had to support the action. - I am happy that we updated the article in 2019 while he was still alive. Happy 2020! Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:08, 31 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Syd Mead

[edit]
Article: Syd Mead (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Deadline Hollywood
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Art director for films like Blade Runner and Tron. Unfortunately article has major sourcing gaps. Masem (t) 01:33, 31 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Prosper Grech

[edit]
Article: Prosper Grech (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Vatican NewsMalta Independent
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: First Augustinian Roman Catholic Cardinal in 111 years, co-founded the Patristic Institute Augustinianum in Rome Joseywales1961 (talk) 10:46, 31 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

December 29

[edit]
December 29, 2019 (2019-12-29) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economics

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Closed) RD: Neil Innes

[edit]
Stale, unimproved. Stephen 23:06, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Neil Innes (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Comedian, songwriter (The Rutles, The Bonzo Dog Doo-Dah Band) and Monty Python collaborator. Article needs a lot of citations. Black Kite (talk) 13:31, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Vaughan Oliver

[edit]
Article: Vaughan Oliver (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Rolling Stone
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Noted graphic designer, particularly for his work with 4AD Records. 2A00:23C5:508F:3E01:B5B0:CF8C:CCE2:6E4B (talk) 21:20, 29 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted to RD) RD: Alasdair Gray

[edit]
Article: Alasdair Gray (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [1][2]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Jheald (talk) 11:24, 29 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

December 28

[edit]
December 28, 2019 (2019-12-28) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents
Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) December 2019 Mogadishu bombing

[edit]
Article: December 2019 Mogadishu bombing (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 73 people are killed by a car bomb in Somalia's capital. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ More than 90 people are killed in a suicide truck bombing at a police checkpoint in Mogadishu.
News source(s): BBC, Reuters, AP, Guardian
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Stub for now, will grow as more details are known and added. Sherenk1 (talk) 11:32, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It's unlikely to be edited by many people unless it's put on the homepage. Jim Michael (talk) 20:18, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That's not how ITN works. Quality before posting. --LaserLegs (talk) 21:50, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
How else can we bring more editors to it? Jim Michael (talk) 22:06, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Notify Wikiprojects, tag it for improvement, add it to the current events portal. Either way ITN isn't for getting mediocre articles improved. --LaserLegs (talk) 22:39, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It's in 8 projects & on that portal, yet has only had 6 editors. I can't see which tags could be appropriate for it. Jim Michael (talk) 01:53, 29 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It's not surprising it's short; it has only had nine editors. What is missing from the article which should be included in it? Jim Michael (talk) 20:07, 29 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Where does it say that a specific minimum number of characters is a requirement for articles to be posted to ITN or DYK? Jim Michael (talk) 12:01, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
At the appropriately titled "WP:DYKRULES," a 1,500 character minimum is noted. Bagumba did not state ITN had a character minimum but implied DYK's standard was lower than ITN's (most ITNC contributors would agree). GreatCaesarsGhost 17:03, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The article is 5203 bytes. How many characters of prose does it have? Jim Michael (talk) 23:16, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Jim Michael: You can refer to the readable prose guideline WP:RPS.—Bagumba (talk) 01:55, 1 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That link says it has 2922 characters of prose. If there's a minimum number of characters to qualify for ITN it should be stated somewhere. Jim Michael (talk) 11:06, 1 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I see no evidence of a minimum length requirement for ITN; if you're saying there is, please link to the relevant policy/guideline which states it. Also, please say what reliably sourced info should be included in the article which currently isn't.
When a terrorist group say they were the attackers, the phrase claimed responsibility is the usual term that the mainstream media use. Now that al-Shabaab have said they were the attackers, the article no longer needs to state that it was initially unknown which group did it.
Most of the commenters in this discussion have made no edits to the article or its talk page. If the article had more than 13 editors it would likely be of better quality. Jim Michael (talk) 15:10, 31 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
A) Again with this straw-man argument? No one said there is a minimum length. There is minimum QUALITY, and short articles will struggle to be comprehensive. B) My objection is not to the term, but that it is poor composition style to use the same subject and verb repeatedly. The article needs a copyedit. C) editors are free to contribute wherever, however, and it what quantity they like. There is no expectation that contributing at ITNC requires you to work on each article that is nominated. GreatCaesarsGhost 18:17, 31 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Per Wikipedia:In the news#Criteria, it states: "In the case of a new, event-specific article, the traditional cut-off for what is enough has been around three complete, referenced and well-formed paragraphs" and includes an example of what a minimum standards looks. While not a minimum character requirement like DYK, let's not be disingenuous and conclude that this requirement is "no evidence of a minimum length requirement for ITN." Best, SpencerT•C 21:39, 31 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It fits those criteria in regard to the paragraphs.
By minimum length, I meant in terms of number of lines/characters/bytes, in response to the claim that it's not even long enough for DYK - strongly implying that ITN articles must be significantly longer than the minimum for DYK.
Had this bombing occurred anywhere in the Western world, the article would have been edited by hundreds of people & would be multiple times longer. Jim Michael (talk) 22:49, 31 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

December 27

[edit]
December 27, 2019 (2019-12-27) (Friday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economics

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Science and technology

RD: Don Imus

[edit]
Article: Don Imus (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Huffington Post
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Well known radio host. Article has minor sourcing issues. Nonstopmaximum (talk) 23:24, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

BLP continues to apply to pages about recently deceased persons. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:54, 29 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
They weren't just a few negative events; they were a big deal and garnered a lot of news coverage and controversy.--WaltCip (talk) 16:29, 29 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
There's an entire article about the controversial stuff Howard Stern has said on the air so Imus's page having a few incidents mentioned is fine. TomCat4680 (talk) 16:34, 29 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
A perfect demonstration of recentism causing undue over coverage of then current events. Federal Communications Commission fines of The Howard Stern Show should be trimmed and merged into The Howard Stern Show which is only 25,884 characters (See WP:PAGESIZE). --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 04:37, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: J. Charles Jones

[edit]
Article: J. Charles Jones (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBS (WBTV)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Notable civil rights leader with a decently sourced article I and a few others worked on making (albeit I wish now I had gotten it up to GA before his death). Seems worthy of being listed at RD. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 19:47, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Turkish court overturns Wikipedia ban

[edit]
Article: Block of Wikipedia in Turkey (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Constitutional Court of Turkey overturns ban on Wikipedia in Turkey and rules the ban unconstitutional. (Post)
News source(s): New York Times, BBC, Al Jazeera, AP, Guardian, Reuters
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: I was taking break for last couple of days and came to know about this news. So I preferred to nominate here as it is about the key judgement given by the Turkish court. I didn't know whether the ban on Wikipedia by Turkish aithorities was posted here. I think this could be significant in order to add it in ITN. Abishe (talk) 19:38, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

PS: I've never been tempted to gaze at my navel. – Sca (talk) 22:59, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Respectfully disagree that this does not have lasting notability; this is a significant free speech ruling in a country not known for free speech. I don't see it as a Wikipedia story, but as a free speech story. 331dot (talk) 19:06, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If that is true, the article does not have any information regarding the implications of it being unblocked. Besides the sentence in the introduction, the article only has On 26 December 2019, the court ruled in a 10–6 vote that the block of Wikipedia violated the freedom of expression and ordered it to be lifted immediately without any further reactions/information about how this sets precedent, etc. If the article can be expanded to show how this is clearly the case, I would be willing to support. SpencerT•C 19:40, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Conditional support. I agree with 331dot wrt navel gazing but I also see Joseph's point that the Turkish government routinely ignores court rulings against it, so the story is only newsworthy if the ruling goes into effect and Wikipedia is actually unblocked. Regards SoWhy 21:56, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Widely carried by reputable sources and the article is in good shape. I disagree with those saying we should wait; ITN is for the news not the result. Whether the government complies with the ruling or not, the news is that the court ruled this is unconstitutional, and that's what news media are all frenzy about. – Ammarpad (talk) 07:50, 29 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support If we are ever going to post a Wikipedia story this should be it. P-K3 (talk) 17:00, 29 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The article has had a cleanup tag since 2018 and still seems too vague about the actual status of the block. Court rulings don't mean much if they are not enforced. Andrew🐉(talk) 18:49, 29 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per above. Davey2116 (talk) 23:21, 29 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose First it's a local item, second it's a one-off news item that has apparently already dropped off the news. Searching for this item for example does not yield stories newer than 3 days old (or new developments). Turkey's own news portals are focusing on other things, in particular the war in Syria. Banedon (talk) 23:23, 29 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This is not a 'local item', this is a national supreme court ruling involving one of the top visited websites in the world(which has a global physical presence). Very little would be posted if more than one country had to be involved in any posting. 331dot (talk) 12:05, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You sure? As of right now, there are three items in the box. The first involves a plane crash. Per Boeing 737 MAX, this kind of plane crash can have international consequences. The second is about Jamal Khashoggi. A quick Google search yields three new items, variously titled "Khashoggi decision unacceptable attempt to acquit real perpetrators of murder, Altun says", "Saudi Arabia under fire over Khashoggi ruling – Middle East Monitor", and "'Antithesis of justice': Khashoggi verdict roundly condemned", showing it's continuing to make the news. The last item is about the Netherland's court ruling on climate change. Climate change obviously has international consequences. I'm not seeing any evidence this item is on par with the blurbs already posted. Banedon (talk) 12:20, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
There are good stretches and bad stretches. The fact remains that ITN is not (and should not be) limited to international events/events involving more than one country. We even call this out at the top of this page. 331dot (talk) 12:22, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As I indicated as well, Wikipedia has a global presence, both physically and on the internet. 331dot (talk) 12:23, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

* Remove photo of Jamal Khashoggi, please. Must be someone more important by 2020!--Dthomsen8 (talk) 20:23, 1 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

O

  • Support: On principle I think it disimproves the encyclopedia, contrary to our 5th pillar and the related WP:IAR, if we self-destructively allow weak arguments about things like alleged navel-gazing to wittingly or unwittingly assist the harming of Wikipedia by failing to use the power of our front page to publicize serious harm being done to Wikipedia. In this case Wikipedia has been banned in Turkey for over 2 years, which is perhaps the most serious-ever attack on Wikipedia (and certainly one of the most serious-ever attacks on Wikipedia), and the outlawing of the ban by their Constitutional court is currently seemingly being ignored. We should not apologize for seeking to let our readers know about this and hoping this will help bring pressure to bear to implement the Court's decision. And any inappropriate wikilawyering arguments against this, such as WP:SOAPBOX and WP:RGW, should simply be ignored as outweighed by our 5th pillar and the related WP:IAR, and by the common-sense requirement that when attacked we should take reasonable measures to defend ourselves, as any sane organization would be expected to do. Tlhslobus (talk) 15:04, 2 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Bek Air Flight 2100 plane crash

[edit]
Article: Bek Air Flight 2100 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A domestic passenger crashed in Kazakhstan, killing at least 12 people and injuring 60. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A domestic passenger flight crashes in Kazakhstan, killing at least 12 people and critically injuring 54.
Alternative blurb II: ​ A domestic airline's passenger plane crashes in Kazakhstan, killing at least 12 people and injuring 54 others.
News source(s): BBC. Guardian, Reuters
Credits:

Article updated

 Sherenk1 (talk) 13:35, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Because for unknown reasons a small low cost domestic carrier cashed a 20 year old regional jet from a company which has been out of business for two decades? I must be brainless since I'm not seeing the notability here. --LaserLegs (talk) 16:22, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
How does "out of business for two decades" feature here exactly? Those 12 lives are worth comparatively less? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:25, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed. Beyond those fatalities, this crash was unusual in that 86 survived, of whom 49 were hospitalized. (The plane was of Dutch manufacture.) – Sca (talk) 16:39, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
So it's a memorial thing? What are the WP:MINIMUMDEATHS for notability? A little context -- because if a rare Uncontained engine failure of the most common power plant on the most common airplane wasn't notable then please explain how a podunk airline crashing a rickety airframe fished out of a is ... other than the completely irrelevant body count. --LaserLegs (talk) 16:50, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
– Sca (talk) 17:08, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
A fatal civilian airline flight has been the standard for posting air crashes since ages. WP:MEMORIAL or MINIMUMDEATHS are irrelevant in this case. Brandmeistertalk 17:15, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
IntoThinAir's MINIMUMDEATHS essay notes that the 2013 Glasgow helicopter crash killed 9 people but failed to be posted on notability. It does also quote you, wherein you state that double digits in airline deaths is automatically considered notable, so there's that.--WaltCip (talk) 19:08, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Suggest that, if and when this gets posted, we don't actually use the word "podunk" in any blurb. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:12, 27 December 2019 (UTC) p.s. "Taiwanese trash bin"? [reply]
Top story on BBC News at Six tonight. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:08, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Minor syntax revisions made to lead. Though comparatively short, looks good to go. Marked ready. – Sca (talk) 23:06, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting comment – The blurb originally approved for this item said, "A domestic airline's passenger plane crashes in Kazakhstan, killing at least 12 people and injuring 54 others." All three blurbs considered said "domestic" rather than "Bek Air" because few outside Kazakhstan and other ex-Soviet states have ever heard of Bek Air, thus it's not generally familiar to our English-speaking audience. Further, as noted above, 'flights' do not crash, planes do, so the approved blurb said "a domestic airline's passenger plane." In the interest of reader comprehension, suggest we return to the Alt2 blurb approved here (minus the word passenger, made redundant by "airline"). – Sca (talk) 14:31, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"Reader comprehension" is improved by naming the flight like we always do. "A domestic airline" is ambiguous and unhelpful. --LaserLegs (talk) 16:37, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wasn't an issue for the Ural airlines crash we posted last August. The standard air crash blurb is fine. --LaserLegs (talk) 16:54, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
So, the ultimate criterion at the English-language Wikipedia is "it fits the format." Forget about what the words signify to the reader. – Sca (talk) 22:53, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Treating similar news in similar format is part of NPOV. Not naming the airline would be an indication of a Western/European POV. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 23:11, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm a reader. I knew this was coming and when I saw the blurb my reaction was "a domestic airline, what the fuck does that mean?". Of course it's an airline a flock of condors didn't crash here and what does it matter if it's international or domestic? I don't know why you're so hung up on "flight" either. A flight, that is "a trip made by an aircraft, particularly one between two cities or countries, which is often planned or reserved in advance" to which this story is obviously referring can have numerous outcomes such as arriving, delay or crashing into the dirt a few miles from the airport. Seriously, I don't see a single actual published news story using the description "a domestic airline" because it's nonsense. Maybe the Guardian got it wrong?. We post these every 4 to 6 weeks what is suddenly wrong with the standard informative air crash blurb? --LaserLegs (talk) 01:20, 29 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
A 'flight' is an abstract, descriptive word denoting an action by an airplane (or bird). It is not a noun referring to an airplane – it does not denote a thing-in-itself. It is the thing that crashes, not the action, which is not a thing but rather a mental concept. As Oxford states, a Flight is "an act of flying; a journey made through the air or in space, especially a timetabled journey made by an airline."
'Flights' don't crash because they aren't physical things. Airplanes sometimes crash, killing or injuring people inside them. That some at Wiki have made it a habit to refer to a 'flight' as if it were a thing does not make such irrational usage linguistically correct. The so-called "format" of which you're so unaccountably fond should be avoided by all. – Sca (talk) 14:57, 29 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"Flight 2100" is a compound noun. Stating that a numbered flight, such as United Airlines Flight 93, crashed is perfectly grammatical and idiomatic. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 04:00, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Possibly, but still not a thing in itself. The phrase refers to an action by a thing. It's not really an idiom – and besides idioms by their nature are not transparently intelligible, usually being metaphoric. – Sca (talk) 15:37, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I meant Idiomatic: "Using, containing, or denoting expressions that are natural to a native speaker." --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 19:39, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Same diff. Still not a thing.
Further the affiant sayeth naught. – Sca (talk) 15:51, 31 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

December 26

[edit]
December 26, 2019 (2019-12-26) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Law and crime

Politics and elections

RD: Kushal Punjabi

[edit]
Article: Kushal Punjabi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Hindustan Times, India Today, India Today, NDTV
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian film and television actor known for his roles in movies such as Lakshya. Committed suicide. DTM (talk) 08:04, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Sue Lyon

[edit]
Article: Sue Lyon (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Montreal Times, NY Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American actress know for her roles in Lolita, The Night of the Iguana, among other movies. --SirEdimon (talk) 01:25, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jerry Herman

[edit]
Article: Jerry Herman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP NPR
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Prolific Broadway composer and lyricist. Refs needed for some statements, especially in the article text, but it's probably in better shape than a lot of articles with "works" lists/sections because that part is already decently sourced. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 20:16, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Betelgeuse may be about to explode

[edit]
No consensus to post now, renominate when it explodes. --Tone 17:44, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Betelgeuse (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Betelgeuse's recent dimming may be indicative of an impending supernova (Post)
News source(s): NGC; CNN
Credits:

Article needs updating
Nominator's comments: [3] Count Iblis (talk) 12:11, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Guinan, Edward F.; Wasatonic, Richard J.; Calderwood, Thomas J. (8 December 2019). "ATel #13341 - The Fainting of the Nearby Red Supergiant Betelgeuse". The Astronomer's Telegram. Retrieved 27 December 2019.
  2. ^ Guinan, Edward F.; Wasatonic, Richard J.; Calderwood, Thomas J. (23 December 2019). "ATel #13365 - Updates on the "Fainting" of Betelgeuse". The Astronomer's Telegram. Retrieved 27 December 2019.
  3. ^ Drake, Nadia (26 December 2019). "A giant star is acting strange, and astronomers are buzzing - The red giant Betelgeuse is the dimmest seen in years, prompting some speculation that the star is about to explode. Here's what we know". National Geographic Society. Retrieved 26 December 2019.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) 26 Dec solar eclipse

[edit]
No consensus to post. SpencerT•C 01:24, 2 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Solar eclipse of December 26, 2019 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ An annular eclipse visible across much of Asia occurs (Post)
News source(s): [4][5][6]
Credits:
Nominator's comments: I don't know about this. Annular eclipses are not ITNR, and they aren't that uncommon apparently, annular eclipses that are visible from large swathes of Earth are uncommon. It's making the news (just put in "eclipse" into Google) so I'm nominating this. Banedon (talk) 07:51, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 25

[edit]
December 25, 2019 (2019-12-25) (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Law and crime

Politics and elections

RD: Lee Mendelson

[edit]
Article: Lee Mendelson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [8]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Needs more refs. On the phone now, will try to update once I'm home. –FlyingAce✈hello 18:30, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure why the template is not working for me... Article is Lee Mendelson, refs need work, will try to update later. –FlyingAce✈hello 18:38, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Peter Schreier

[edit]
Article: Peter Schreier (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: As the BBC writes, one of the leading lyric tenors of the 20th century, The GDR export to the West. - His article was in poor shape, and could still be imprved but I need a break. Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:25, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think, that this two GDR books don't have ISBN numbers. Grimes2 (talk) 17:15, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
We don't really need the 3 old documentaries at all. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:03, 29 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Táňa Fischerová

[edit]
Article: Táňa Fischerová (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Český rozhlas, Novinky.cz
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Jenda H. (talk) 19:42, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ari Behn

[edit]
Article: Ari Behn (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Express.co.uk, De Telegraaf
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 --BabbaQ (talk) 20:48, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Typhoon Phanfone causes at least thirteen deaths in the Phillipines

[edit]
Article: Typhoon Phanfone (2019) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Typhoon Phanfone makes landfall in the Phillipines causing at least twenty deaths with many more missing (Post)
News source(s): BBC, AP, Guardian
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Death toll stands at 13 this morning, the article is being updated as I write so hopefully it will contain good details Joseywales1961 (talk) 11:09, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

December 24

[edit]
December 24, 2019 (2019-12-24) (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Politics and elections

(Attention needed) RD: Kelly Fraser

[edit]
Article: Kelly Fraser (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian, CBC News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Canadian Inuk pop singer-songwriter, whose second album was Juno-nominated. RebeccaGreen (talk) 04:54, 29 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted to RD) RD: Allee Willis

[edit]
Article: Allee Willis (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times, Rolling Stone
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Prolific songwriter ( Friends theme, September, What Have I Done to Deserve This, Neutron Dance). CoatCheck (talk) 03:45, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Referencing appears good.-- P-K3 (talk) 17:51, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The 2016 Best Musical Theatre Album Grammy did go to "The Color Purple," but Willis is not listed as a recipient on the Grammy's site. Looking through the history [9], the composer/lyricist is sometimes awarded and sometimes not. Just my guess, but it seems they are omitted when existing songs are used (Beautiful: The Carole King Musical, Once, American Idiot, West Side Story (2009)). Otherwise, article looks good. GreatCaesarsGhost 17:53, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Willis is listed here (in category 58). Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:56, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Andrew Miller

[edit]
Article: Andrew Miller (politician) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Daily Mail
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: British former politician. Article needs further sourcing. Skteosk (talk) 08:47, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted to Ongoing) Citizenship Amendment Act protests

[edit]
Proposed image
Articles: Citizenship Amendment Act protests (talk · history · tag) and Citizenship (Amendment) Act, 2019 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In India, Prime Minister Modi defends law on citizenship for migrants, while the protests (pictured) continue with twenty five dead. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In India, protests (pictured) against the law on citizenship for migrants continue with twenty five dead.
News source(s): CAA protests deadlier than months-long Hong Kong protests: 25 killed in India, 2 deaths reported in Hong Kong, BBC India protests: PM Modi defends citizenship bill amid clashes, CNN Protests rage across India over citizenship law
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Protests continue, Excellent sourcing, Deadlier than the Hong Kong protests already. DBigXrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 23:40, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the comment. The government instead of relenting has decided to defend the law, even though death toll climbs. Both are major news items across major newspapers. So a blurb is merited IMHO. An ongoing, though acceptable, will be the bare minimum for this. --DBigXrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 00:00, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
LaserLegs, I did one round of copy-editing (edit: protests article). DTM (talk) 11:23, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
24 December Times of India In one voice, 80,000 Bengaluru citizens reject CAA , the  article has a timeline for fans of chronology. The geographical names are listed chronologically and not alphabetically. The protests are not under a central organisation so it is useful to read geographically how it proceeded. You are welcome to propose changes on the talk page. DBigXrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 04:59, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The comparison to HK is not applicable to India. One is a city and other is a large country with many states. Please propose your changes on article talk page. --Happy Holidays! ᗙ DBigXrayᗙ 13:12, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
User:Harshil169 your comment makes absolutely no sense to me at all. An ongoing has no blurb. If you have a better blurb, feel free to add it in the template above and support your own blurb. --Happy Holidays! ᗙ DBigXrayᗙ 15:29, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Stephen, I did one round of reading and copyediting (edit: protests article). It isn't that bad... DTM (talk) 11:25, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - The article must include loss of public property. Many state governments have assessed the losses and sent bills to the rioters. Without this information this article clearly looks highly opinionated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jangid (talk • contribs) 12:14, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Jangid please provide the refs for this concern, so that it can be fixed. --Happy Holidays! ᗙ DBigXrayᗙ 13:42, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
DBigXray, here they’re: https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/caa-protests-up-government-starts-process-seize-property-protesters-involved-violence-1630471-2019-12-22 and https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/explain-or-pay-for-damage-up-administration-sends-notice-to-26-people-in-sambhal-for-caa-violence-1631638-2019-12-26 . However, so far, only Uttar Pradesh has done this...RedBulbBlueBlood9911 (talk) 15:15, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed RedBulbBlueBlood9911 and Jangid thanks for the kind note and the link. I have included this into the article. thanks.
RedBulbBlueBlood9911, do you find the blurb not notable enough ? the death number is significant. As Muboshgu suggested, what stops from promoting this as a blurb and roll it off to ongoing if it still continued ? --Happy Holidays! ᗙ DBigXrayᗙ 19:11, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Because this story was already posted two weeks ago, and subsequently rolled off. We don’t post the same story twice. Stephen 19:56, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - for blurb only, as the time progressed and information can be changed I think this article needs to be included in Ongoing section, which is none since Maltese protest was remove from ongoing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.67.42.47 (talk) 21:33, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment May I know what is the hold up now ? are we waiting for this to get archived by the bot ?
DBigXray, it seems there are some issues on the page (neutrality, grammar and so on). From what I’ve read, there is no reason to not put this in ongoing now, however, so I guess the admins have to get back to editing. RedBulbBlueBlood9911 (talk) 16:07, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
4-5 editors have done massive C/E on this page. The grammar issues are mostly fixed since the time it was pointed out. --Happy Holidays! ᗙ DBigXrayᗙ 16:09, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
In the so taken step by government of India, seems that there's lack of public awareness in certain sections and is even noticed by the violent and atrocious situations arrived.The Article should highlight the content and should work a assistance to public awareness and lack of efficiency in handling the situation in initial days.

Thanks a million

SHISHIR DUA (talk) 16:53, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment the "hold up" is the atrocious state of the article. The "protests" and "timeline of protest" sections need to be combined and the proseline eliminated. Still many grammar issues. There is half a sentence mentioning a protest of 300,000 people with zero detail. Not main page ready. --LaserLegs (talk) 18:51, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I understand that you want "The "protests" and "timeline of protest" sections be combined". Unfortunately that is not going to happen, as this current structure has been discussed on the talk page and as per consensus, preferred over other structures. This structure helps readability since events are spread over multiple days and are happening in parallel on several places. You are free to propose and argue the benefits of one over the others. In any case this is not sufficient reason for an ITN Hold up.
Thanks for pointing out the "protest of 300,000" I have now included more content.
Regarding Proseline and Grammar issues. IMHO they are largely fixed, An admin should check the article and decide. --Happy Holidays! ᗙ DBigXrayᗙ 19:54, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"In Lucknow, police prevents students of Nadwa University to come out of the campus to protest, leading to clashes.". So, grammar. How many students? Why? For how long? What clashes? What consequences? Why is this bullet point factoid notable at all? The article is full of this stuff and I'm frankly tired of featuring garbage like this on the main page. --LaserLegs (talk) 19:58, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed I copy edited that line. You can read the details at Citizenship_Amendment_Act_protests#Nadwa_University. This is still an ongoing event. Investigations underway and will be updated as and when we have the details. --Happy Holidays! ᗙ DBigXrayᗙ 10:55, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Also both the timeline and Protest section are organized in chronological order. the Protest section is divided into sub-sections on states that are arranged in chronological order.--Happy Holidays! ᗙ DBigXrayᗙ 19:21, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

December 23

[edit]
December 23, 2019 (2019-12-23) (Monday)
Armed conflict and attacks

Business and economy

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sri Lankan cricket team in Pakistan

[edit]
Article: Sri Lankan cricket team in Pakistan in 2019–20 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Pakistan beat Sri Lanka to win first home Test cricket series in a decade since the 2009 attack on the Sri Lankan team. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Pakistan beat Sri Lanka to win first home Test cricket series to be played in Pakistan in a decade since the 2009 attack on the Sri Lankan team.
News source(s): DAWN BBC Al Jazeera France 24 NYT WaPo AFP
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: The first home Test series in a decade in Pakistan is In the News and the article now also contains summary of the matches. Vegan Gypsy (talk) 16:20, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

LaserLegs, latter. --Happy Holidays! ᗙ DBigXrayᗙ 21:45, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted to RD) RD: John Cain

[edit]
Article: John Cain (41st Premier of Victoria) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ABC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former premier of Victoria. I have added references to the article, and think it is passable. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:58, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Mr. Niebla

[edit]
There's nothing more to discuss, badger, or harangue. It's been posted. Go enjoy your Christmas. WaltCip (talk) 22:48, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Mr. Niebla (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): MedioTiempo (es)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Mexican professional wrestler MPJ-DK (talk) 00:44, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Far too much of the article is about the fights and championships he "won". In pro wrestling, this information is telling us nothing more than what scriptwriters at the time decided his character would do. It tells us nothing of the person who has just died. It's the equivalent of discussing the activities of characters an actor played in movies or plays, as if they actually happened. Not an acceptable article. HiLo48 (talk) 04:09, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Thoroughly sourced Good Article. GaryColemanFan (talk) 05:13, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Didn't realise it had been assessed as a Good Article. That's seriously ridiculous. How can a collection of acting scripts become a good article? Not a good look for Wikipedia. HiLo48 (talk) 05:17, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
So I am sorry to see that you think this is the appropriate platform for you to get on a soapbox. Your non-policy based point has been clearly made, how bout we let other people chime in? MPJ-DK (talk) 05:32, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
What is non-policy based about my Oppose comment? Do we really accept the scripts of pro-wrestling as somehow describing a person's life? HiLo48 (talk) 05:38, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Please do point to the policy that supports your oppose based on the fact that the article is "too much about his career" - would you lodge a similar complaint if an article about a golfer is primarily abou their golf career? if an article about a career military office is primarily about their army career? If the article on a politician is primarily about their political work? Please show me that policy and i'll happily withdraw this nomination on the spot. MPJ-DK (talk) 15:12, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Misrepresentation is a crappy form of argument. At no point have I said that the article is "too much about his career". Of course we write about the successes of a pro-golfer, because they would be real. The "successes" of a pro-wrestler are not. They are created by scriptwriters. There is a massive difference. HiLo48 (talk) 22:44, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The successes, while you might consider them to be created by scriptwriters, are due to the wrestlers' ability and drawing power, so it's not like the wrestler is removed from the equation. As such, even a fictitious championship is an accomplishment, as it is an acknowledgement that the promotion has enough faith in them to make them a face of the company. I would argue, therefore, that it is not as empty as you claim, and that the most talented performers rise to the top, much like in more "true" athletic competitions. However, we're getting distracted from the fact that the article is considered sufficiently notable for posting, and it has already been reviewed for quality. GaryColemanFan (talk) 03:24, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think I misrepresented anything, I presented your argument in a different context and you didn't like it. So let's compare them to actors - except here he played the same role since 1994 basically - So championships could be considered the same as awards, appearing on major shows = "Special guest appearance" etc. his in-ring achivements is to a degree a result of his skills, charisma etc. not that different than an actor. Are you saying that the article on actors with a 30 year career should not include the awards someone voted for him to get (not won "competitively" after all), not include supporting or starring roles in shows and movies? is that not, generally speaking, what an actors career section covers? So yes here he gets in the ring and pretends to want to injure his opponents, no different than getting on a stage and do Shakespear, no diffent than guest starring on the Golden Girs, no different than being a space cleric with a fantasy weapon - except he played that role day in and day out any time he was in public. And you never cited any actual policy, so as it stands it is your personal opinion and nothing more. MPJ-DK (talk) 04:07, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"...championships could be considered the same as awards" Utter nonsense. The championships only exist because someone wrote them into the script. Never the case with awards. There is no way that article deserves to be "Good". HiLo48 (talk) 07:40, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
So again more clear hostility towards the subjet matter, but nothing policy based. Thank you for confirming that there is nothing but your personal opinion behind the objection. MPJ-DK (talk) 08:09, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Again, completely wrong. I have no feelings either way about the subject matter, but I know that the article supporting this is a load of total rubbish. That IS a policy based issue. HiLo48 (talk) 08:39, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • An even stronger Oppose ...based on new information added to the article today. See Mr. Niebla#Name confusion. It tells us that at least four different wrestlers have used the ring name "Mr. Niebla". That makes the nomination of the death of just one of these people and linking it to this article somewhat problematic. HiLo48 (talk) 08:39, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
ITN is supposed to encourage people to read our best articles. Sensible readers will laugh at this one. It's like going back to the 1960s when people believed pro-wrestling was real. HiLo48 (talk) 22:12, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Ahmed Gaid Salah

[edit]
Article: Ahmed Gaid Salah (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC, Aljazeera, France 24, NYT
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Algerian army chief, compelled President Bouteflika to resign this year. Jamez42 (talk) 14:26, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Removed) Ongoing Removal 2019 Maltese protests

[edit]
Article: 2019 Maltese protests (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)

Nominator's comments: The last "protests" were on December 13th (though the article doesn't say how many people) and the last update a was a week ago for an "NGO" calling on he government for "protection". Not "regularly updated with new, pertinent information". In addition, the article makes numerous references to non-specific "NGOs" which makes it impossible to attribute actions and statements to specific groups. Finally, the whole thing is in desperate need of a copyedit for grammar. LaserLegs (talk) 13:47, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Assassination of Jamal Khashoggi

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Assassination of Jamal Khashoggi (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A court in Saudi Arabia sentences five people to death for the 2018 killing of Jamal Khashoggi. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, AP, Guardian, Reuters
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: One orange tag on one section, otherwise a solid well-sourced article. Significant development in this case now that Saudi Arabia has handed down the first legal judgements regarding culpability. Spokoyni (talk) 10:24, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Article should be better structured to identify the trial and sentencing here. Also, the list of purported names in "Alleged perpetrators" seems like a BLP violation per BLPCRIME, unless they are those that have been part of this sentencing. --Masem (t) 14:38, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, they are a part of this widely popular case. 17 of them are Sanctioned by US Treasury. I have noted this. --DBigXrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 17:10, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
WP:RGW may be of interest to you. No comment on the nom --LaserLegs (talk) 19:06, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
WP:RGW may be of interest to leading human rights groups around the world, as the internal affairs of RSA often are? The article should just report what they say, because it's in the news? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:10, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I misunderstood your comment. Sorry. --LaserLegs (talk) 19:54, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks El_C, can someone post the credits ? --DBigXrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 23:47, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
credits given by User:Ammarpad. Thx. --DBigXrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 10:28, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
User:Ammarpad - you've only given credits to one of those listed. User:Octoberwoodland and I are still waiting. Spokoyni (talk) 07:32, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

December 22

[edit]
December 22, 2019 (2019-12-22) (Sunday)
Armed conflict and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Ram Dass

[edit]
Article: Ram Dass (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Recent deaths: Ram Dass. Dass died on December 22. The author of Be Here Now and other books. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:29, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Just a bit more for those who may not know of his work. Ram Dass' importance in both the 1960s counter-culture and the 1970s western understanding of yoga and perceptional consciousness training is very notable, and his book Be Here Now influenced many in the same way Yogananda's Autobiography of a Yogi had done for decades. Randy Kryn (talk) 03:59, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Tony Britton

[edit]
Article: Tony Britton (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: British actor, article needs a bit of work Black Kite (talk) 18:19, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Prime Minister of Cuba

[edit]
Article: Manuel Marrero Cruz (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Forty-three years after Fidel Castro abolished the position, Manuel Marrero Cruz becomes the 17th Prime Minister of Cuba. (Post)
News source(s): BBC News, CNN, Reuters
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Notable change in Cuba's governing, first appointment in 43 years. PotentPotables (talk) 11:31, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Thomas Chandy

[edit]
Article: Thomas Chandy (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Times of India
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former Kerala minister Thomas Chandy died Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 00:36, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose – Not widely covered; lacks general significance. – Sca (talk) 15:34, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • RDs are not evaluated by their "significance", but by the quality of the article. If the article is ok the RD is approved. ALL people with an article on Wikipedia are considered notable and/or significant enough for a RD.--SirEdimon (talk) 16:57, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Needs improvement to sourcing. We do not need a separate WP:CSECTION for unindicted allegation. Allegations are levied against politician daily. I doubt it even has due weight in an article this short. It reads like a minor accusation that was blown out of proportion because it is recent. The man lived for 72 years. Is this thing that happened in the last 2 years worth 1/5 of the article space? --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 21:38, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

December 21

[edit]
December 21, 2019 (2019-12-21) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

RD: Emanuel Ungaro

[edit]
Article: Emanuel Ungaro (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC, The Guardian, Vogue
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: French fashion designer Jamez42 (talk) 14:49, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) 2019 FIFA Club World Cup

[edit]
No consensus to post. SpencerT•C 05:16, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2019 FIFA Club World Cup (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Liverpool defeats Flamengo to win the 2019 FIFA Club World Cup. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:
 --SirEdimon (talk) 20:25, 21 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I think football has enough coverage on ITN already, and this is not a significant enough competition. P-K3 (talk) 21:30, 21 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - I'd agree with Pawnkingthree, although in one sense this is the ultimate prize in club football, being a tournament for the winners of the continental cups, it doesn't actually have the prestige of the individual UEFA and South American events. It also doesn't look like we posted it last year, and I don't recall seeing it any other year either.  — Amakuru (talk) 23:27, 21 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability (I leave others to judge quality), despite it not being ITNR, and despite it receiving less attention than the Champions League in much of the world (though Latin America, or at least South America, may well be an exception, as may some of the other countries whose teams are taking part). But that's seemingly WP:systemic bias, a bit like saying that we should not report the British or Brazilian elections, or elections at the UN (to give another instance where the world is deemed less important than some of its parts), because we supposedly have far too much politics anyway and because the US elections receive far more coverage (yes, I know most such elections are ITNR, but that's not really the point). In this case it is likely to be of interest to more of our readers than usual because it's a rare case of an English team winning this cup (which, incidentally, is probably part of the reason why we didn't post it last year). To those who might say that's systemic bias in favour of an English-speaking country, my reply is that in this case any such biaa is legitimate because this is after all English Wikipedia (I would not expect, for instance, German Wikipedia to omit stories of interest to their German-speaking readers on the basis that this is bias in favour of such readers). I might perhaps add that this year, unusually, I was more interested in this cup than in the Champions League (because that was an all-English final this year, which is less interesting than English v Brazilian), despite me being neither English nor British - and I suspect I'm not alone among our readers in having felt that way. Tlhslobus (talk) 23:51, 21 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose - The only clubs that win this competition are European teams or South American teams, and we already post when those teams qualify to this tournament when they win their respective continental championships. Furthermore, the manager of the winning side had several quotes justifying the value of this tournament to the press, found in this article on BBC, implying that the tournament is looked down upon enough that he felt he had to justify its value. That said, this is technically the ultimate competition of club football, and FIFA treats it this way, even if the fans do not, so it's only a weak oppose. NorthernFalcon (talk) 02:29, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Klopp's above-mentioned comments are because the tournament is looked upon with contempt and hostility by some elements in Europe (tho not the remaining 90% of the world). The fact that the BBC chose to show the final live in prime time on its main channel (BBC ONE) suggests that this contempt and hostility is not shared by huge numbers of ordinary fans (and Europe's excellent recent record in the cup suggests that major European clubs like Real Madrid now take it seriously too). This does not mean that they regard it as more important than the Champions League, but if that were a requirement for posting at ITN, then about 90% of our ITNR sports items would have to be removed (and huge numbers of non-sporting events would also have to be removed), etc. Incidentally the last Cricket World Cup to be held in India (about 4 years ago, if I remember right) chose to market itself as 'the Cup that matters', presumably because many in India think the T20 world cup is more important, but we quite rightly did not use this as grounds for not posting (nor even for removing it from ITNR). Tlhslobus (talk) 17:27, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Martin Peters

[edit]
Article: Martin Peters (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: English footballer and manager. Member of the England team which won the 1966 FIFA World Cup and played the 1970 World Cup --SirEdimon (talk) 17:21, 21 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

December 20

[edit]
December 20, 2019 (2019-12-20) (Friday)
Armed conflict and attacks

Business and economy

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Creation of United States Space Force

[edit]
Article: United States Space Force (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ President Trump signs defense bill that officially creates the United States Space Force. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The United States Space Force, the sixth branch of the United States Armed Forces, is officially created.
News source(s): NPR, The Guardian, BBC, ABC.
Credits:

Nominator's comments: This is the first time that a new branch has been added since 1947. This will also be the first time that the United States will have a dedicated space military presence, as NASA is a civilian agency, and the Air Force only did this as a side mission. PuzzledvegetableIs it teatime already? 20:23, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose A United States Space Command was created in 1985 and there was an announcement by Trump about this in August. It's not clear that this is any more than an administrative reorganisation. What's the practical impact? Andrew🐉(talk) 22:00, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • This is more than an administrative reorganization. A new branch was announced on 20 December. This new branch is of equal status to the Army and Navy. This is completely different than a command being shuffled around for bureaucratic purposes. This new branch will have its own uniform, song, march, rank structure, etc. It's as independent from the Air Force as the Marine Corps is from the Navy. This hasn't been done since 1947. --PuzzledvegetableIs it teatime already? 22:23, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • Its own song!? But it doesn't actually have one yet, right? I see that people have been parodying this for some time – see Billboard, for example. This seems to be similar to Trump's wall on the Mexico border – more of a work-in-progress than a discrete achievement. Andrew🐉(talk) 23:19, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • By the way, note that Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker has been the top-read article on Wikipedia for several days now, because nobody cares what ITN thinks about it. That's something that actually exists – you can go to the movies and see it yourself whereas Trump's Space Force seems to be like Reagan's Star Wars; an aspiration rather than an actuality. "No one’s ever really gone." – Luke Skywalker. Andrew🐉(talk) 23:47, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • The funding already exists as this has officially been sanctioned by an act of Congress, and a Chief of Space Operations has already been appointed. The comparison to Reagan's Star Wars is incredibly weak. --PuzzledvegetableIs it teatime already? 23:56, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
          • The Act of Congress is the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2020, which is a huge bundle of programs, policies and pork for the Department of Defense. There's lots in there such as items for cyberspace, for example. A bill of this sort is passed every year and we would need a good reason to highlight particular items in it. Andrew🐉(talk) 00:14, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
            • "There is established a United States Space Force as an armed force within the Department of the Air Force." Last time something similar to that was said, the Allies had just emerged victorious from World War II. It's been over 70 years, hardly the annual occurrence you make it seem to be. I'm not sure what everyone else isn't getting. Congress has created a new branch of the Armed Forces. It's as official as it's ever going to get. This rarely ever happens, and it reflects a major change in American military policy, and how it has been affected by changing technologies. --PuzzledvegetableIs it teatime already? 00:28, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
              • Emerged victorious from World War II directly due to extremely real and important air superiority of armed forces. No such clear and present danger this time, just similar in that they're new branches and the press is concerned with the commander-in-chief. Almost a whole other scoop, 72 years later, each with its own official and imaginary merit systems. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:41, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose There is going to be at least a year of administrative setup before there is actually a separate branch. It would be better once the Space Force is officially the 6th branch, as right now, all activities will be under the Air Force. [10] --Masem (t) 22:34, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • It already is a separate branch. It's true that they have allotted 18 months to fully separate the branches, but the official separation has happened. Everything from here is purely administrative. --PuzzledvegetableIs it teatime already? 22:47, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • It's not fully separate. There is no person right now that can say they are a Space Force member, only that they are part of the Space Force division under the Air Force. In 18 months a lot can change (and this also potentially is where the impeachment process may come into play, to revoke such programs after the fact). When it is actually separated, then it might make sense to post. But as noted in these articles, this is not the first national-level military-directed space agency anywhere, so I don't see why calling out the US version is necessary. --Masem (t) 23:38, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Another step of Trump solidifying his political legacy.--WaltCip (talk) 23:15, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose another Trump fake victory that will never be funded or really implemented. At most it's a reorg of the air force and another big government expansion and waste of public funds. Let me know when Mars leaves the UN. --LaserLegs (talk) 23:31, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose As Trump news, we have enough. As space war news, it's too soon, still feels "fake". I'll support when the first drop of blood is vaporized (rebel, robot or imperial). InedibleHulk (talk) 03:24, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support if I'm not mistaken, this is the first time any nation has created a space force, making this a historic milestone. Weak support because it's not the first time space-related weapons have been destroyed, see e.g. anti-satellite weapon. Still, if other countries respond by establishing their own space force, not posting this would be a mistake. Banedon (talk) 14:23, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) State of the Netherlands v. Urgenda Foundation

[edit]
Article: State of the Netherlands v. Urgenda Foundation (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Dutch Supreme Court upholds a ruling that the Netherlands government must meet established emissions reduction milestones, establishing the first legal case of climate change impacting human rights. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Dutch Supreme Court upholds a ruling that the Netherlands government must meet established emissions reduction milestones, creating the first legal precedent on the impact of climate change on human rights
News source(s): Bloomberg, The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: While this case had made news in 2015 from the lower court ruling, it had been appealed twice, but upheld at all points. I think the article is pretty much there? There's some weird formatting stuff I can't figure out immediately, but sourcing, it seems to be there. Masem (t) 16:51, 20 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Suggest removing "Climate Justice" piece as a target, leaving only State of the Netherlands v. Urgenda Foundation. (Unwieldy article name could be simplified, though.) – Sca (talk) 15:40, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I concur with Sca. SpencerT•C 18:14, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm fine with removing "climate justice" (as I wrote the case article, I think it needs to be tuned towards "climate change litigation" to be a bit more neutral, but that would take more work). Not sure how to reduce the name, as not familiar enough with how Dutch law cases get shortened. (Could it be "Netherlands v. Urgenda?" not sure?) --Masem (t) 18:41, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"2019 Netherlands climate ruling" – ?? – Sca (talk) 14:55, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • plus Posted alt blurb. The newly-created article has been stable, and there was sufficient support already beforehand.—Bagumba (talk) 05:20, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question: Is the term "precedent" accurate? Are lower courts in the Netherlands bound by prior cases? Is the meaning of the word "precedent" in Dutch law different from its generally understood meaning in common law, the legal system used by the majority of English-speaking countries (considering that this is the English Wikipedia)? feminist (talk) 13:46, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Boeing Orbital Flight Test

[edit]
Article: Boeing Orbital Flight Test (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ An anomaly occurs during the first test flight of the Boeing Starliner spacecraft, preventing a planned rendezvous with the International Space Station (Post)
News source(s): BBC, Space.com
Credits:

 – PhilipTerryGraham (talk · articles · reviews) 14:12, 20 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Weak oppose On the basis that if it successfully got there, on something really bad happened, it would definitely be ITN-worthy, but this is a bit of a boring nothing in between both. Kingsif (talk) 19:58, 20 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Kingsif: The failure of a crew-rated spacecraft is "boring"? – PhilipTerryGraham (talk · articles · reviews) 05:56, 21 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I could be wrong but I don't believe it is yet crew-rated(hence the test flight). 331dot (talk) 08:06, 21 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Well, nothing effectively happened? It missed the target, when reaching would be interesting. It didn't blow up or set on fire or otherwise cause injury. A blurb isn't "thing was supposed to happen but didn't", you know? Like "guy was going to break the world record but fell short" isn't worth a blurb unless there's an independently interesting reason why. And per standards of ITNs for space exploration, I think only a successful flight & rendezvous warrants a blurb. Kingsif (talk) 16:45, 21 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Polish judicial disciplinary panel law

[edit]
Article: Polish judicial disciplinary panel law (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Polish judicial disciplinary panel law passed by Sejm, despite warnings this may force Poland out of EU evoking widespread protests throughout Poland. (Post)
News source(s): [11][12][13][14][15]
Credits:

 MozeTak (talk) 20:19, 21 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

December 19

[edit]
December 19, 2019 (2019-12-19) (Thursday)
International Relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections
Science and technology

(Closed) Evo Morales

[edit]
Unlikely to gain consensus to post. The feedback is clear. – Ammarpad (talk) 03:52, 20 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Evo Morales (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Bolivian prosecutors issue arrest warrant against Former Bolivian President Evo Morales (Post)
News source(s): Al Jazeera, The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Arrest order issued to former Bolivian President who is already facing charges related to corruption. He has been given refugee status in Argentina Abishe (talk) 12:57, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

[edit]
SNOW close. Bring back to nominations if it breaks the box office record or something. We did post the Avengers Endgame because of that. --Tone 13:35, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The final episode of the Skywalker saga premieres and goes on general release. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: This is big news, of course, but I'm not sure if we should focus on the premiere or the general release. Andrew🐉(talk) 12:05, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

State of emergency declared in Australia's New South Wales

[edit]
Article: 2019–20 Australian bushfire season (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ State of emergency is declared in Australia's New South Wales following record breaking temperatures and ongoing bushfires. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ State of emergency is declared in New South Wales, Australia following record breaking temperatures and ongoing bushfires
News source(s): BBC, Al Jazeera, Guardian, Reuters, AP
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Bushfires are quite regular in Australia but this time around the bushfires have been uncontrollable. The bushfires have also resulted in implementing state of emergency in New South Wales. Abishe (talk) 07:50, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Wondering if it should also mention the "record-breaking heatwave" with the record set on Tuesday and than broken the next day. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 08:04, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That would be less of a problem if more editors (not just Australians) worked to prevent such nominations falling off this page. HiLo48 (talk) 02:42, 20 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now, seems better suited to ongoing as a topic, though I note the current target article is rather sparse; many sections consist of a single sentence and it needs a lot of expansion. --Jayron32 13:27, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - This is NSW's second State of Emergency (first one for this fire season was in November). This isn't a typical fire season, in NSW the season typically starts in mid-late November north of the state and early-mid December in the south, this season started around August and ramped up in September due to drought and above average temperatures. In a season you'll see one or two big (major) fires but so far I have lost count. I do know that approximately 2.7 million hectares has been burnt so far.
The blurb needs more work, I would help but I'm off on a deployment in a few hours. Bidgee (talk) 13:51, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – Gigantic, intense fire situation that's been and continues to be widely covered by RS media. (Record-breaking as a compound modifier of temperatures is hyphenated.) – Sca (talk) 14:10, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose in current state (though significance is met). Have any of the support votes actually attempted to read this article? The NSW section first has a few paragraphs, each about a different fire. Then a few graphs in summary of the whole season, Then more graphs each about a different fire! Then more summary! This isn't an article; it's research notes. GreatCaesarsGhost 19:08, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose at the moment, the article simply isn't up to scratch - it's a list of events, some of which are unsourced and many of which are out of date, with one line in the lead saying "A state of emergency has been declared". We can't put that on the front page at the moment. Black Kite (talk) 19:27, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose ...for now. Maybe this is linked to the wrong article. 2019–20 Australian bushfire season is just this year's ongoing article about the season's bushfires. Such articles are typically a mess for a while, often being contributed to by enthusiastic, new editors unfamiliar with our conventions. It will be in poor condition for some time yet. Bushfires in southern states are usually worse in January and February. These articles are cleaned up later after things settle down. The problem is, I don't know what article to point to that will be in good condition. HiLo48 (talk) 21:30, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Target suggestion Agreed that it's an inappropriate target for a main page item. All of Australia is not on fire now. A model might be like 2019 California wildfires, and even that has individual links to specific fires, and is not proseline for the entire state.—Bagumba (talk) 01:59, 20 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – Two firefighters killed. We really shouldn't be ignoring this topic. (Two sources added above.) – Sca (talk) 13:50, 20 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    That's the second comment you've made in this nom arguing this event is significant. No one is disputing this - the objection is quality. If you are passive-aggressively arguing that quality should be ignored, be less passive. GreatCaesarsGhost 15:52, 20 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not 'suggesting' anything of the kind. Be less disparaging. I do suggest that some of our Australian colleagues familiar with the topic and the country work on the article. – Sca (talk) 13:40, 21 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Why just Australians? And this article is not likely to become stable enough to support the nomination in the time-frame required. HiLo48 (talk) 23:17, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment As GreatCaesarsGhost has just noted, we need a better quality article to support this nomination. I have already pointed out further up this discussion that the linked article, 2019–20 Australian bushfire season, is unlikely to become a quality, stable in the time frame we need. As its name shows, the period it covers extends into next year. It covers the whole country, ten times the area involved with the subject of this nomination. Fires are only just now firing up (sorry) in the southern states of Victoria and South Australia, and the southern part of Western Australia, and will continue through to at least April next year if past years are any guide. It's the kind of article that attracts new and enthusiastic but unskilled editors. It just isn't the right article. We obviously need an article on the declaration of the state of emergency if we are to follow our guidelines. Or, and this is the biggie, accept that this IS a major news item, and should not miss out on being posted just because nobody thought of situations like this when they wrote the guidelines. If we can't do that, we perhaps need to rethink the headline on our main page. After all, this definitely IS In the News. HiLo48 (talk) 23:21, 20 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Homo erectus

[edit]
Article: Homo erectus (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Homo erectus survived into comparatively recent times in South East Asia, a new study has revealed (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Study reveals Homo erectus survived until around 110,000 years ago in South East Asia, more recently than previously known
Alternative blurb II: ​ A study suggests Homo erectus died off due to rainforests destroying its natural grassland habitat in Java, around 110,000 years ago.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: As per article "The latest study highlights a mind-boggling truth: that many of the species we thought of as transitional stages in this onward march overlapped with each other, in some cases for hundreds of thousands of years." Sherenk1 (talk) 06:25, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted, Ongoing removed) Impeachment of Donald Trump

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Impeachment of Donald Trump (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ President Donald Trump is impeached by the United States House of Representatives. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ President Donald Trump is impeached by the United States House of Representatives, charging him with abuse of power and obstruction of Congress.
Alternative blurb II: ​ The United States House of Representatives votes to impeach President Donald Trump.
News source(s): The Guardian; NBC News
Credits:

Nominator's comments: The vote is going to be within the hour, and no one thinks it will fail(if it did, that would likely merit posting too). I've suggested two blurbs though I'm open to changes. It could be pulled from Ongoing. I'm also open to a different image- and I wouldn't be opposed to leaving the current image of Musharraf up for awhile longer. 331dot (talk) 00:56, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Did a Republican vote yes? Amash is an independent. 331dot (talk) 01:29, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
There's only 1 indep vote at the moment but the Repub vote got removed a minute ago.  Nixinova  T C   01:34, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support original blurb. | abequinnfourteen 01:59, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not counting all the wars, sure, it's up there. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:10, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
How many times has he allegedly commited suicide now, six? InedibleHulk (talk) 02:38, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted to RD) Herman Boone

[edit]
Article: Herman Boone (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Legendary high school football coach Herman Boone dies at the age of 84 (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Herman Boone, legendary coach of the T.C. Williams High School football team, dies at the age of 84
Alternative blurb II: ​ Legendary high school football coach Herman Boone, who was immortalized in the 2000 film Remember the Titans, dies at 84
News source(s): https://wtop.com/alexandria/2019/12/herman-boone-alexandria-football-coach-immortalized-in-remember-the-titans-dies-at-84/
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: This deserves a listing given the significance this person has in both local and national history. 2601:187:4581:7F50:A4EE:F954:9CC6:6166 (talk) 00:17, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm well aware of that... my point being that IMHO this deserves more than just an RD mention. 2601:187:4581:7F50:A4EE:F954:9CC6:6166 (talk) 00:24, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • RD only. He was important for the local area, but wouldn't be as known nationally without the film. Blurbs are typically reserved for deaths where the death itself is an event, or for world-transforming figures at the tip top of their field. Neither is the case here. 331dot (talk) 00:37, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • No blurb I genuinely understand and appreciate how high school football can seem larger-than-life in some states, but most readers grew up in the real world instead. To them, a coach is just a sort of teacher. A better-paid teacher, but still pretty common. Scoring a movie deal is universally cooler, but only goes so far. Gets you a blurb nomination. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:56, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • RD only, per 331dot. The only sportsperson I can remember being posted as a blurb was Muhammad Ali. (There may be others I've forgotten, but that's the level we're talking about). Black Kite (talk) 01:02, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Gretzky's getting a great one someday. But yeah, Ali was the greatest. The Great Khali will likely be an exception to this unwritten "great" rule. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:10, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
InedibleHulk It isn't unwritten, see WP:ITNRD. 331dot (talk) 01:15, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I mean the rule about assuming greatness based on a person's clear and present moniker. Generally holds true, but there'll always be pretenders. Khali was good in the lesser The Longest Yard, but that only goes so far toward immortality. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:26, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not absolutely "funny" yet. Remember when Jesse Owens was misdiagnosed as a "civil rights champion" for running against the backdrop of Hitler looking stupid? What if...no...we'd get cancelled. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:14, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
InedibleHulk, I dread the day John Lewis dies. That is going to be one hell of a contentious ITN nomination. Gives me flashbacks of John McCain's nomination. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 07:09, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Then let that fear guide us toward eradicating the orange menace at the heart of his activism, before people hear about him for the first time! By us, I mean you guys. Wake up, verifiers! InedibleHulk (talk) 08:58, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Dummy. p. 210.
 Done. Looks like someone misinterpreted |pages= to mean the total number of pages in the source. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 07:01, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

December 18

[edit]
December 18, 2019 (2019-12-18) (Wednesday)
Armed conflict and attack

Arts and culture

International relations

Law and crime

Science and technology

Sports

(Posted) RD: Geulah Cohen

[edit]
Article: Geulah Cohen (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Jerusalem Post
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article updated and well sourced --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 01:28, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Zafar Chaudhry

[edit]
Article: Zafar Chaudhry (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): DAWN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Vegan Gypsy (talk) 16:22, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@MSGJ: I'm hoping if the primary ref I placed would be sufficient. --Vegan Gypsy (talk) 18:11, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am tired and need some sleep so I can't help with this. However, the problem is that {{rp}} needs to go after the </ref> instead of before <ref>. Another issue is that an editor appears to have misinterpreted |pages= in {{cite book}} to mean the total number of pages in the book. Weird this is the second time I have seen this mistake today. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 12:12, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Coffeeandcrumbs: I have placed the page no. after the refs end but haven't checked the pages= within the refs. Hoping it ain't something that'll hold it from being posted. --Vegan Gypsy (talk) 18:11, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Vegan Gypsy: I cleaned up the rest. But there is a small gap in the biography. Can you add when he returned from exile in Canada? He fled to Canada in 1974 but returned to serve in Human Rights Commission of Pakistan and died in Pakistan. But when did he go back to Pakistan? --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 20:18, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Cyrus Mistry

[edit]
Unanimous opposition – no chance.
– Sca (talk) 14:17, 19 December 2019 (UTC) (non-admin closure)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles: Cyrus Mistry (talk · history · tag) and Natarajan Chandrasekaran (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ NCLAT restores Cyrus Mistry as executive chairman of Tata Group and held the appointment of N Chandrasekaran as illegal. (Post)
News source(s): The Economic Times, The New York Times
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Ongoing boardroom saga in 100 Billion Tata Group Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 11:52, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Jerome L. Singer

[edit]
Article: Jerome L. Singer (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Hartford Courant
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article updated and well sourced. Death was announced today. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 06:34, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

December 17

[edit]
December 17, 2019 (2019-12-17) (Tuesday)
Business and economy

Law and crime

Science and technology

(Posted) Pervez Musharraf

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Pervez Musharraf (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former Pakistani president Pervez Musharraf is sentenced to death for treason and subverting the constitution. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Former Pakistani president Pervez Musharraf who is currently residing in Dubai is sentenced to death and subverting the constitution.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Former Pakistani president Pervez Musharraf is found guilty of high treason and sentenced to death in absentia for imposing the state of emergency.
Alternative blurb III: ​ Former Pakistani president Pervez Musharraf currently exiled in Dubai, is sentenced to death in absentia for treason.
Alternative blurb IV: ​ Former Pakistani president Pervez Musharraf is sentenced to death in absentia for treason and subverting the constitution.
News source(s): CNN,BBC, Economic Times, NDTV, Al Jazeera, Reuters, The Guardian
Credits:

Both articles updated

Nominator's comments: Death penalty is issued to one of the prominent political figures in Pakistan. News is developing. Abishe (talk) 07:37, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support on the merits. A former head of state being sentenced to death is certainly notable. 331dot (talk) 08:01, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Opposupport – First, I want to say holy shit! But the article needs more of an update to the body. There is no mention of a conviction for treason in the body. Suggested a better blurb. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 08:28, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support; Damn, you don't mess with the Pakistani judicial system. I believe this is very notable since a former head of state is sentenced to death. I would just like this to be mentioned more in the article. LefcentrerightTalk (plz ping) 09:01, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I just added a new heading Death penalty in the article. I have been updating it and thank you Coffeeandcrumbs for rectifying my error and for modifying the blurb. Abishe (talk) 09:16, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose- Article is not completely referenced. Sherenk1 (talk) 09:23, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment It should be clarified that he was sentenced in absentia. He is in Dubai, which may not extradite him (sice Pakistan and UAE do not have an extradition treaty). --NSharma21 (talk) 12:32, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The sentencing of former army chief and former President is highly significant moment in Pakistan where the powerful military has ruled the country for nearly half of its 72-year history. Even if this penalty is not going enforced but this is a bold decision and sign of powerful judiciary. --Saqib (talk) 14:13, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose clickbait blurb until concerns pointed by NSharma21 are fixed. This alone may have no impact as he is not a captive in Pakistan.Musharraf is free in Dubai and he will likely never return and is dying of cancer anyway. --DBigXrayᗙ 14:16, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait – Per NSharma21, wait to see if he's deported/extradited to Pakistan. Historically, quite a few politicians have been sentenced in absentia, without effect. – Sca (talk) 14:21, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose since he is in a country that is highly unlikely to extradite him. Nonstopmaximum (talk) 14:26, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment 100% agree with what DBigXray and Nonstopmaximum say regarding the issue. I was not initially aware of the fact that he was residing in Dubai for over three years before nominating here. Actually it made me to nominate here when I reviewed the awaiting of pending change request for the article where I saw one of the editors added the info regarding his death sentence in the top section. Then I searched for it whether it was true or false and later confirmed it through reliable sources. Now I feel it won't be easy for Pakistan to extradite him from the United Arab Emirates. The news will develop in coming days. But I am feeling suspicious about NSharma21 because their contributions to Wikipedia mainly include edits to ITN section. Abishe (talk) 14:43, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as per Saqib. This is very significant event as military is considered above law in Pakistan. They pressurize everyone to impose their decisions. This was a tough decision as they delayed the decision using Islamabad High Court. Wikipedia should not censor this decision. Störm (talk) 15:25, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Lean support still reading the article, but the fact that he was sentenced to death in absentia says as much about the kangaroo nature of the "special court" as it does about his acts as PM. Article is actually really thorough and so far I haven't tripped over anything outrageous. --LaserLegs (talk) 15:28, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It's both currently a top news story, and quite rare, that a former head of state is sentenced to death. It would be sloppy on the readers part—not the blurb's fault—to misinterpret that he's already dead, or that it's a guarantee of what the next actions will be. The sentencing itself is major news, regardless.—Bagumba (talk) 15:57, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The article needs to be clear about which country this was made in and where he is now. I also think we need a blurb that captures the fact that he is in exile, and that this penalty is effectively moot unless he is focused back to the country. --Masem (t) 16:04, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I have fixed some issues regarding the blurbs. I am not sure whether there is a strange relationship between Pakistan and UAE. Its simply because Pakistan played international cricket matches in UAE and adopted UAE as its home venue. Hope this extradition would happen as this is related to high profile treason case. Abishe (talk) 16:23, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt blurb - should mention he is in exile.-- P-K3 (talk) 16:44, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment added an "Alt blurb III" with suggestions from everyone. Although I still dont agree we should be posting this, but if something has to be posted, it better be informative and non clickbait.--DBigXrayᗙ 16:55, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Agree that Alt3 would be best if post we must – but this is not a Support vote. – Sca (talk) 17:13, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Clickbait is false advertisement. While his whereabouts might arguably be "informative", there is nothing misleading in a shorter blurb saying that he is sentenced to death.—Bagumba (talk) 17:31, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Every headline from various news agencies that I have seen does not list his current whereabouts. It's in the body.—Bagumba (talk) 17:31, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Bagumba obfuscating major plot details, that basically negates the whole story, is the kind of clickbait that tabloids do, not encyclopedia.--DBigXrayᗙ 17:56, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Your view of "major plot detail" differs from actual headlines of reliable sources. See samples of headlines below.—Bagumba (talk) 18:11, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

*Support: Though it should be made clear that he isn't in the country and the sentence will not be immediately carried out if at all. Gotitbro (talk) 17:44, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose Just another show trial with no effective impact. There are numerous corrupt politicians all over and we should save our energy for the cases with impact. There's another Arab Spring brewing and developments in 2020 are expected. It's the revolutions and regime changes that matter, not inconsequential items like this. Andrew🐉(talk) 18:07, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Here are the headlines of seven sources listed in the nomination: "Former Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf sentenced to death for high treason" (CNN), "Pervez Musharraf: Pakistan ex-leader sentenced to death for treason" (BBC), "Pakistan's Former dictator Pervez Musharraf sentenced to death in high treason case" (Economic Times), "Pervez Musharraf Sentenced To Death In High Treason Case: Pak Media" (NDTV), "Pakistan's Pervez Musharraf handed death penalty in treason case" (Al Jazeera), "Pakistan sentences former dictator Musharraf to death in absentia" (Reuters), "Pervez Musharraf: Pakistan sentences former ruler to death for high treason" (The Guardian)—Bagumba (talk) 18:11, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Re: In absentia Some commenters here insist it's misleading to not mention it, believing it's informative and exposes the ruling to be toothless. However, according to The Washington Post, he's been receiving medical attention since leaving the country, and reportedly is seriously ill.[19] Giving the blurb the impression that he's a fugitive obfuscates the real story of the sentencing by omitting mention that he's ill and likely to die while never being allowed back to his own country. Keep the blurb focused on the current sentencing, not on future speculation. Use the original blurb.—Bagumba (talk) 01:19, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@MSGJ: citations have been added.
You appear to have modified every blurb, including changing "president" to "dictator." Why was that?-- P-K3 (talk) 21:25, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Although both are applicable here, but I note that most of the media houses e.g. CNN, NDTV are calling him president. so President seems to be more apt. --DBigXrayᗙ 21:59, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I have undone the "dictator". I think Alternative blurb IV is best. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 22:00, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@MSGJ: Can the blurb be modified to incorporate the Musharraf high treason case article that is now fairly developed? --Vegan Gypsy (talk) 20:36, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The format of Musharraf high treason case is pure proseline, thus below the quality standard for linking from Main Page at this time.—Bagumba (talk) 08:49, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

December 16

[edit]
December 16, 2019 (2019-12-16) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Basil Butcher

[edit]
Article: Basil Butcher (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: West Indian cricketer. Article in fairly good shape. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:33, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Citizenship (Amendment) Act, 2019

[edit]
Proposed image
Articles: Citizenship (Amendment) Act, 2019 (talk · history · tag) and Citizenship Amendment Act protests (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ India's Prime Minister has appealed for calm as violent protests against a new law on illegal migrants entered a fifth day. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Atleast six people killed and many arrested in protests (pictured) against a new law on citizenship for migrants
News source(s): BBC, CNN
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Nationwide protests are still going on. Six people have been killed and 50 injured according to BBC article. Sherenk1 (talk) 11:29, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Me Too. --DBigXrayᗙ 13:25, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose protests are tagged for deletion, citizenship act article needs the usual ESL copyedit ("Internet was shutdown in the north-eastern state of Assam and curfew declared in Assam and Tripura due to huge protests") --LaserLegs (talk) 12:03, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I went ahead and copy edited it. The AfD nom has withdrawn and is heading for a Keep. --DBigXrayᗙ 12:47, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
 Posted. El_C 13:18, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks El_C, can someone post the credits.--DBigXrayᗙ 13:25, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Done by Amkuru--DBigXrayᗙ 14:55, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@MSGJ: Number of deaths has increased to 24 now. Please update. -Nizil (talk) 12:38, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

December 15

[edit]
December 15, 2019 (2019-12-15) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Politics and elections

RD: Monique Leyrac

[edit]
Article: Monique Leyrac (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.lapresse.ca/arts/201912/15/01-5253854-la-chanteuse-monique-leyrac-seteint-a-91-ans.php
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Le chanteuse Quebecoise. Could use a little more expansion but is completely sourced. ミラP 04:23, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose Insufficient depth of coverage of the subject's career. A single sentence describes her career in the 80s and aside from 2 awards she received there's no information about what she did in the 90s. There's enough information out there that the article notes that a biography was written about her. SpencerT•C 23:46, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
What she did in the 1990s is this newfangled thing you might have heard about called retirement, which people tend to do in their 60s and 70s. Neither her article on fr (slightly but not significantly longer, but with fewer footnoted references than ours) nor her entry in The Canadian Encyclopedia (which is cited as a footnote in our article) say that she did anything in the 1990s but collect a couple of lifetime achievement awards either — and the French article even has "Années actives = 1948-1989" right in its infobox. So the article not containing information about her career in the 1990s is not a flaw in the article, it's "she was retired and didn't have a career in the 1990s for us to write about". Bearcat (talk) 12:08, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
My apologies; the article was not clear regarding when she retired. Even then, the only thing the article has about her career in the 70s is an award she won and a documentary about her, so my point still stands, regardless of when her career occurred. SpencerT•C 16:28, 20 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Removed) 2019 Hong Kong protests

[edit]
Article: 2019 Hong Kong protests (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)

Nominator's comments: 100k people a week ago was a big deal, 100 people 4 days ago is not. The article is gigantic and overly detailed -- and has been orange tagged for NPOV for several days now. LaserLegs (talk) 21:25, 15 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ongoing removal 2019 Maltese protests

[edit]
Article: 2019 Maltese protests (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)

Nominator's comments: Last protest of any significance was a week ago, article is orange tagged for neutrality. LaserLegs (talk) 21:21, 15 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

What substantive events? --LaserLegs (talk) 13:11, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The December 13 events take up 4-5 paragraphs of text, which is more than sufficient. The December 16 events have much less, but the December 13 stuff was only a few days ago. Give it a few more days and see if anything else develops. --Jayron32 13:58, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, I saw lots of text there, but I'm asking "what substantive events" --LaserLegs (talk) 14:17, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
What makes the events substantive is that source texts which can be used to update Wikipedia are covering them as though they are substantive events. My personal feelings, familiarity, opinions, or interest in the events has nothing to do with my assessment of substantive, which in the context of Wikipedia relies only on what is written in Wikipedia and what is written in reliable sources. --Jayron32 16:20, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The subsection for 13 December is quite substantial. There is another subsection for today. I also agree with User:Jayron32 about the neutrality tagging being debatable. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:14, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull While there are some continual updates, they do not rise to the level of ITN-worthy postings, and thus it wouldn't make sense for the article to remain in ongoing. Future blurb-worthy items should be nominated as such, and then if that ages off the template, an Ongoing placement would then be warranted. SpencerT•C 16:16, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Are you saying that for an item to remain in Ongoing, each update to it should be the equivalent in significance of an ITN posting in its own right? I don't think we've ever operated that way.-- P-K3 (talk) 16:28, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not necessarily, but that's the reason that the Ongoing section was originally created (the Olympics, so that Olympics-related items wouldn't clog up the section). My definition for In order to be posted to ongoing, the article needs to be regularly updated with new, pertinent information. requires that there is some sense of notability to this information, that there would be consideration to posting to ITN as a blurb. For this item, where an NGO makes a request to the president and there's a relatively small vigil (in the context of broader protests), this does not rise to meet that minimum. SpencerT•C 23:43, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Anna Karina

[edit]
Article: Anna Karina (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Iconic French actress. --SirEdimon (talk) 15:14, 15 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

December 14

[edit]
December 14, 2019 (2019-12-14) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Business and economy
Health and environment
Law and crime
  • Former Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir is sentenced to two years detention in a reform facility for corruption. There is heavy military custody of the government buildings and the court as followers of his now dissolved party rally in his support. Defense lawyers say they will appeal the sentence. (Reuters)

Omar al-Bashir convicted of corruption

[edit]
Article: Omar al-Bashir (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former president of Sudan Omar al-Bashir is convicted of corruption and financial irregularity by a Sudanese court and is sentenced to two years in prison. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Former president of Sudan Omar al-Bashir is convicted of corruption by a Sudanese court and sentenced to two years in prison.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Former president of Sudan Omar al-Bashir is convicted of corruption and money laundering by a Sudanese court and sentenced to two years in prison.
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: Omar al-Bashir was ousted as president of Sudan in April of this year; this is his first criminal trial since then. He is also wanted by the ICC for crimes against humanity for the Darfur genocide, but it is unclear if he will be turned over. Davey2116 (talk) 10:34, 14 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Who says he's getting out of jail? InedibleHulk (talk) 04:16, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
He is going to the ICC after this. Even the U.S. has agreed to send ambassadors to Sudan, for the first time in 23 years. This is a feat in the Sudanese transition to democracy. I wish people would stop treating ITN like a competition. We should have posted something about COP25 because it was significant news. We should also post this because it is significant news. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 07:58, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The BBC explains that "under Sudanese law, people over the age of 70 cannot serve jail terms. Bashir is 75." So, all the proposed blurbs are inaccurate. If the ICC does something then there might be more of a story but that's speculation. Andrew🐉(talk) 17:53, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

December 13

[edit]
December 13, 2019 (2019-12-13) (Friday)
Business and economy
  • China–United States trade war
    • Both countries announce an initial deal where new tariffs to be mutually imposed on December 15 would not be implemented. China says it "will buy more high quality of American agricultural products", while the United States says it will halve the existing 15% tariffs. (The Guardian)

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Sheila Mercier

[edit]
Article: Sheila Mercier (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: The Emmerdale star. Sourcing issues are minor and can be solved easily. ミラP 01:24, 14 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Danny Aiello

[edit]
Article: Danny Aiello (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American actor best known for Do the Right Thing. Article has sourcing problems. Nonstopmaximum (talk) 22:56, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Removed) Samoa Measles Outbreak from Ongoing

[edit]
Article: 2019 Samoa measles outbreak (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)

Nominator's comments: No substantial prose updates to the article in the past 3 days (mostly addition of references or tallying statistics). While technically ongoing, this item would have been better fit for a blurb, given the lack of continual ITN-postable events occurring. SpencerT•C 15:12, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ongoing: Brexit

[edit]
No consensus to post. SpencerT•C 04:18, 14 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Brexit (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Hot important ongoing event that keep appearing in the news on a daily basis. News regarding this issue are fundamental and important on the international level. Main article and sub articles are getting updates on daily basis. Shorouq★The★Super★ninja2 (talk) 05:13, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
User:Masem How does the next steps matter now that Brexit is officially back on the agenda? Shorouq★The★Super★ninja2 (talk) 09:23, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Jayron32 provides a good rationale. We know Brexit will be on the table soon enough, but unlikely before end of the year. When they reconvene next year, I fully expect Brexit to be the big point, at which point we can judge better about an ongoing news item. --Masem (t) 15:33, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Boris Johnson has just won with the slogan “Get Brexit done” and so it’s back on the agenda again, with the clock ticking for a deadline of end-Jan. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:20, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now. The article is in much better shape than when it was last removed. I would be very willing to support, but there are (rather curiously) CN tags. Most of them are for historical things which should be easy to resolve (and by my recollection, those lines DID have sources in the earlier version). However, one is for a direct quote, which is a showstopper for the Main Page.130.233.3.203 (talk) 07:45, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Now that the Tories have won the election, Brexit will get through much easier. I'm wondering if we should just wait to post passage of the withdrawal bill and/or something on January 31 when the UK actually leaves. 331dot (talk) 08:32, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I fully expect some miraculous and totally unforeseen thing to occur before Jan. 31, which results in X more months of delays, which results in some other confounding thing, and so on. How many deadlines has this already blown through? In short and contra CRYSTAL, I think this is going to be ongoing for well more than 7 weeks. I'd prefer blurbs, too, in any other case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.233.3.203 (talk) 08:46, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If the Tories have that large a majority, the opposition won't be able to stop Brexit. 331dot (talk) 08:54, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Other than 1-2 lines about the general election, there's not much written in that article from recent weeks. Not enough updates to justify posting to the ongoing link, and we're already covering the election in a blurb. When something worth writing about happens, we can do another blurb. --Jayron32 13:09, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - It's extremely easy to say that Brexit is a foregone conclusion now that the conservatives have a majority, but we should still avoid massaging crystal balls whenever possible. Let's wait for the actual politics to start.--WaltCip (talk) 15:21, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Agree. Boris says by Jan. 31. Mutti says unlikely even by the end of 2020. Whose vision is ... 20/20? – Sca (talk) 15:35, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 12

[edit]
December 12, 2019 (2019-12-12) (Thursday)
Armed conflict and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Closed) Scheer announces pending resignation

[edit]
Consensus will not develop to post.-- P-K3 (talk) 19:23, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Andrew Scheer (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ On December 12, 2019, Scheer announced he would be resigning as the leader of the Conservative Party effective upon the election of a new one. (Post)
News source(s): [21], [22]

Nominator's comments: Andrew Scheer is the leader of the Conservative party of Canada. The conservative party won the popular vote in the 2019 Canadian federal election. His resignation annoucement is being discussed in the news, which is why I thought this would be relevant here. I've never contributed to in the news before... I've tried to make sure that I've done everything right when it comes to nominating an article, but it's possible that I've made a mistake since I'm not familiar with the process. Clovermoss (talk) 22:02, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose. Thanks for the nomination- the resignation of a party leader that fails to win an election (in this case, the majority of seats if not the popular vote) is standard procedure, and this case it is an announcement of a pending resignation, not the actual resignation. 331dot (talk) 22:16, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    @331dot: Justin Trudeau is still the prime minister, but Scheer recieved more votes than Justin Trudeau did, with 34.41% support compared to Trudeau's 33.07% (according to the 2019 Canadian federal election article). I just thought it was worth mentioning because you can win the popular vote and fail the election. Anyways, I don't particularly care whether it's part of in the news (you probably have a better idea of what fits and what doesn't). Clovermoss (talk) 22:24, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose popular vote aside, Scheer is not the Prime Minister of Canada. I cannot remember a situation where ITN posted a political resignation of a non-head of government/state (in fact, I don't really remember any examples of it posting resignations at all). --PlasmaTwa2 00:21, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This is just a local politics. If we start posting "resignation of party leaders", then I am not sure what ITN would become. – Ammarpad (talk) 03:24, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Lacks EV. – Sca (talk) 15:16, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - News is too localized to be featured as ITN. ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 15:38, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose While sudden and dramatic and significant for Canada, resignations of party leaders who are not sitting heads of state or government are not notable on an international scale unless it indicates political repression, which is not the case here. NorthernFalcon (talk) 16:35, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) 2019 Winter Deaflympics

[edit]
No consensus to post. SpencerT•C 23:47, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2019 Winter Deaflympics (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The 19th Winter Deaflympics officially opens in Italy on 12 December (Post)
News source(s): insidethegames
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: This is the Olympics for the deaf. I prefer posting to ongoing event but I just mentioned a blurb as a remedy. I just wanted to make awareness about this event. The article is developing. File:2019 Winter Deaflympics.png Abishe (talk) 16:22, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Abishe Thanks for the nomination. ITN is not for merely spreading awareness about things; we feature articles that get coverage in the news. Do you have news stories about this event? 331dot (talk) 16:28, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Actually I am unable to find sources in English and are mostly available in Italian language. I just added a source in English language in the template. I am sorry for the errors and I have nominated articles like this before. Abishe (talk) 16:48, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Abishe Sources for article content do not need to be in English, but what ITN is looking for is evidence that this is getting coverage in the news- and to a certain degree English language news, since that's what most readers here get for news. The chances of this being successful are low without such news sources. 331dot (talk) 18:15, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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(Posted) 2019 United Kingdom general election

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: 2019 United Kingdom general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Conservative Party, led by Boris Johnson (pictured), wins a majority of seats in the UK general election. (Post)
News source(s): AP, Reuters
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Polls are currently open in the UK for a very crucial snap election and results are due to come out in the evening. XAnio (talk) 14:52, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Carcharoth Fair enough, but I was not predicting anything, simply posting the general consensus of reliable sources, which is something that is not uncommon here. 331dot (talk) 17:02, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I've restored the placeholder based on exit polls, but the results still need to come in. 331dot (talk) 22:18, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Oppose for now as the results are pending and no need to mention under ongoing events. When a clear winner is announced I will support it and the blurb is yet to be updated. Abishe (talk) 16:22, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - obviously don't post this right now, as the result is only based on an exit poll. But assuming it's confirmed, and the article has no issues, this will go straight up when the result's confirmed.  — Amakuru (talk) 00:17, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support because by the time somebody decides this is "ready" and then it's finally posted, the results will be confirmed. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks ♥) 03:55, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted. Mjroots (talk) 05:10, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS, there is NO prose in results section but it was still posted? The section is not even filled. Is it because it is a UK election? Too much bias! Only 1 support? - Sherenk1 (talk) 06:35, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pulled pending consensus to post. While posted in good faith, that was clearly premature given the state of the discussion. -Ad Orientem (talk) 07:03, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment This is an ITN/R item. When I posted it, the result of a Conservative majority had been confirmed, the image had been protected and I checked that there were no {{cn}} tags. I felt that this was one of those cases where the article was one that would be rapidly edited and improved and posting was justifiable. Mjroots (talk) 09:04, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support No idea what shape it was in when pulled, but the article has several paragraphs of prose describing the results; everything is in the right tense. Looks fine for the main page right now. --Jayron32 13:13, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - obviously I can't post this again, so I'm supporting it now. Should be posted ASAP. Mjroots (talk) 13:19, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Ready to go.-- P-K3 (talk) 13:41, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Re-posted  — Amakuru (talk) 14:08, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment There is still no prose discussion of the full results. We expect this for sports and other elections, UK elections get no special pass here. --Masem (t) 14:32, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    There was scant prose on the results at the time of the original posting, but some had been added to to the lead at the time of the re-post.[23] There is still no prose in the "Full results" section. (Merely observations, meant neither as a support or oppose)—Bagumba (talk) 14:51, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I see three full paragraphs of the results, as of when I supported, which are still there. Of course, improvements are welcome, but that should be sufficient for posting on the main page. I would not, despite your insinuation, opposed posting any other article on the main page with a similar amount of text, and I did not give this a pass because it was the UK. Your accusations against me are entirely unfounded, and quite insulting. --Jayron32 15:01, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - I still see no prose in the results section! Sherenk1 (talk) 15:26, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment Then you have no one to blame except yourself. You should get on that! Remember, Wikipedia articles only get better because people who want them fixed up do it themselves. If you want it fixed, and don't do it, it's only your own fault and no one else's. --Jayron32 15:27, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    It's in the intro. The article has been updated with prose, that's all that matters.-- P-K3 (talk) 15:28, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Indeed, that was my observation when I re-posted, noting the support !votes above. Yes, it would definitely be preferable to have a full write-up in the body too, but it's not a requirement for ITN as long as there's something written, and it's sufficiently well-sourced etc.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:51, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I have to disagree. We have rejected posting dozens of elections for exactly this reason. We have undone years of consensus and accepted practice at ITN/C. This is really a disappointing IAR. By posting this, you have disrupted the normal operations of this project. You have put us in an impossible and unsolvable situation. You have made us all hypocrites. If you were desperate to post you could have written 4-5 sentences in the Full results section. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 19:28, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Perhaps if we feel this strongly about the presence of prose in the results section of an election article, we should put it in writing. There are multiple project pages dedicated to both general criteria and criteria for recurring items when it comes to posting - neither currently state that prose is required for election results. The situation is not unsolvable. If we want hard rules, we can hold and RFC and change the elections section of the ITN/R criteria page. I'm not defending the posting of this blurb, just pointing out something that may need to be done to prevent a similar issue in the future. It's not hard to put precedent into writing. ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 20:14, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    We do not need written rules about every criterion for what we believe is a quality article. We have a general quality standard. Years of discussion and failed nominations have established precedent for what is a quality article for ITN. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 20:30, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    It's absolutely not true that I have opposed articles in the past for not having text in a specifically named section, which is what you just claimed is the problem. I've only ever opposed similar articles for lacking prose, not because it wasn't exactly organized a certain way. It is extremely upsetting that you first accuse me of doing something I've never done, and then call me a hypocrite for doing the thing you accused me of doing which i never actually did. Please stop your un-called-for personal attacks against myself and other editors who also voted to support this and who also did not do the things you accused them of doing. --Jayron32 13:17, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ongoing: Climate change

[edit]
SNOW close. (No pun intended.) SpencerT•C 16:52, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Climate change (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
Credits:
Nominator's comments: A number of different issues regarding the subject in the news lately, sub articles getting regular updates per WP: SUMMARY and the target itself is in good shape. LaserLegs (talk) 14:11, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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December 11

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December 11, 2019 (2019-12-11) (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Closed) Greta Thunberg addresses COP25

[edit]
No consensus to post. --LaserLegs (talk) 19:02, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Proposed image
Articles: Greta Thunberg (talk · history · tag) and 2019 United Nations Climate Change Conference (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Greta Thunberg, the 2019 Time Person of the Year, addresses the 2019 United Nations Climate Change Conference. (Post)
News source(s): "Almost nothing is being done"; Time,
Credits:
Nominator's comments: The discussion below was closed too quickly (just 7 hours). The thing is that Greta Thunberg is not just the youngest Time person of the year; she's also in the news for addressing the current UN conference, COP25, and so we can score a double. Note that we only have three blurbs currently and they are not getting much readership – Thunberg is already getting more than all of them put together (163K yesterday while even the volcano only got 29K). The COP25 conference is generating other major news such as the acceleration of Greenland's melting and so we ought to have an entry of some sort for this set of major stories. Andrew🐉(talk) 12:17, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose posting the mere giving of a speech by someone who is not a government official able to announce a significant policy change or initiative. I closed the aforementioned discussion as there is no arbitrary minimum discussion time and a clear consensus against. 331dot (talk) 12:21, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If one wants to post something about Greenland, they are free to nominate it. 331dot (talk) 12:24, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • (ec) 331dot rushes to oppose even while I'm still fixing up the entry but what's the rush? ITN is currently devoid of news and so we can take a full day to let everyone have their say. Andrew🐉(talk) 12:26, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - What's the news though? We rarely ever blurb people just giving speeches, as shes done several times before. I feel like this is too similar to the below nomination and can be opposed for similar reasons. Additionally, neither a slow rotation of blurbs through the main page nor low readership on those articles is reason to support another article. ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 12:40, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb. I think at best this would be an ongoing post, however, I don't see that the article has enough regular updates to even qualify for that. If it were more detailed on the events of the conference itself, and looked as though it were likely to receive clear updates on a regular basis throughout the conference, I could possibly support an ongoing post, but this is not really a great blurb. --Jayron32 13:01, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Just a reminder to the community, COP25 was nominated, opposed, and closed last week. Only pointing out for those who may have missed it! ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 13:20, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Addressing the UNCCC isn't notable itself, and doesn't really mean anything. However, I wouldn't be opposed to more creative proposals on including Thunberg on ITN right now. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks ♥) 14:18, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Much as I find the peripatetic Ms. Thunberg interesting, no, this speech in itself isn't significant. Nor should we stress her unsurprising selection as Time 's "Person of the Year." Let's not join the chorus of adulation making her into a media luminary. – Sca (talk) 14:56, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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(Closed) 2019 Inates attack

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No consensus to post. Stephen 01:38, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: 2019 Inates attack (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 71 people were killed after terrorists stormed a military base in Inates, Niger. (Post)
News source(s): (BBC) (Reuters) (Al Jazeera)
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Numerous deaths. ArionEstar (talk) 09:25, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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(Closed) Greta Thunberg Time Person of the Year

[edit]
No consensus to post. 331dot (talk) 09:40, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Proposed image
Article: Greta Thunberg (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Time names Greta Thunberg the 2019 Time Person of the Year. (Post)
News source(s): Time, NBC
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Youngest ever to be selected DannyS712 (talk) 01:07, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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RD: David Bellamy

[edit]
Article: David Bellamy (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Famous botanist and broadcaster Andrew🐉(talk) 19:25, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment - the article looks in reasonable shape, although the last two sections are rather under-referenced. A long list of positions and awards, the majority of which are unsourced. RIP to Bellamy, he was a bit of a fixture on the TV in my youth!  — Amakuru (talk) 23:27, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Date is now correct and sourced. Honours and awards still lacking some sources. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:23, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The subject's article got 82000 views yesterday – more than all our blurbs combined. Given this level of readership, what I made sure was that the picture was sorted – the thumbnail was being squeezed too tight when I found it. Sourcing such a prominent person's extensive history of appearances is mostly busywork because few readers care about such details. By the time all that is sorted out, few people will be reading the article and so it's wasted effort. But if we each have our different priorities then, between us, the page is made more presentable. Many hands make light work... Andrew🐉(talk) 13:04, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Making Wikipedia articles better is not busy work, it is literally the only reason we should be here. --Jayron32 14:40, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, sounds about right. A prominent person will get huge page views, regardless of article quality. When the article has finally been "improved enough" to be listed on Main page (about 2 days later usually), most interested parties have already read it and are more interested in the next news headline. I'm not sure the rationale of "directing the reader to high quality articles" really works for RDs. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:11, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • If you think it's impractical to fix all of those uncited claims in a short time, simply delete them from the article. They can then be added back if and when sources are found, and Bellamy could appear in the RD section. Right now there are still too many uncited claims to justify posting on the main page. Modest Genius talk 18:16, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Attack on Bagram Air Base

[edit]
No consensus to post. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks ♥) 19:24, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Attack on Bagram Air Base (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Taliban launched an attack on a US controlled air base in Afghanistan. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Taliban forces assaulted an United States air base in Afganistan amidst peace talks between the two parties. The attackers used a car bomb and armed personnel, but were successfully repelled by a NATO mission present at the base.
News source(s): (New York Times)
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Taliban Attack on US military Base forces NATO to repel an attack. This is already in the "Current Events" section on Wikipedia, so it needs to be in the "In the News" section. Elijahandskip (talk) 16:17, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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(Closed) Saudi Aramco

[edit]
No consensus to post, stale. Stephen 01:36, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Saudi Aramco (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Saudi Aramco commences trading on the Tadawul stock exchange, following the largest ever initial public offering, and becomes the largest publicly traded company by market capitalisation (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Saudi Aramco becomes the largest traded company after a record-breaking US$25.6 billion initial public offering.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Saudi Aramco becomes the largest traded company after a record-breaking US$25.6 billion initial public offering for 1.5% of the state-owned business.
News source(s): https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/dec/11/saudi-aramco-shares-soar-as-it-becomes-world-largest-listed-company
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Largest IPO ever; largest publicly traded company by market capitalisation Chrisclear (talk) 10:18, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Consider the graphic at the top of this article, comparing Aramco with the other giant market cap companies. Pumping a company on thin volume to achieve pro forma valuation is a trick used in the private markets (recently and famously, the We Co.). The P in IPO is supposed to stand for "public", and the extent to which the public can trade on Tadawul is very limited. Per Tadawul's rules: "Tadawul permits only established institutional foreign investors and not individual investors". This would have been a bonafide IPO had to happened on the original venues: NYSE and LSE, which allow world-wide access, but that was withdrawn in part due to concerns like the above. All that said, it is available to the public through derivative funds like ETFs, and the valuation is what it is on Tadawul, and extrapolating that value through the other 98.5% of the shares (which are NOT public) gets us to around 1.9 trillion USD. So, the blurb is technically correct although we have to do violence to common English to get there.130.233.3.203 (talk) 11:08, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes - the valuation is indeed what it is - with over $25 billion publicly traded. That $25 billion alone makes it a large company, even ignoring the other $1.6 trillion (or more?) which is not part of the float. In September 2014, the (then-record) Alibaba IPO was posted, so I don't see why this should be any different. Chrisclear (talk) 11:52, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't vote for it, but the BABA IPO was for ca. 10% of the company with explicit intentions to float more in the future (it is now about 65%, considered "low" for an enterprise of it's size), and it did it at a venue which allows broad and public ownership, with associated enforcement of property rights. This compares to 1.5% for Aramco, on a stock exchange that explicitly prohibits virtually everyone from participation, and under a government that just a few years ago violently extorted billions from it's own citizens under the guise of "anti-corruption". And the stock has no voting right whatsoever. Like I wrote above, the blurb is technically correct, but we're really stretching the meanings of stock and public and even traded.130.233.3.203 (talk) 14:23, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure why this matters - the blurb does not state "wholly public" Chrisclear (talk) 11:36, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The blurb States "largest public company" which is not true because it remains state owned. --Masem (t) 12:31, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose we could argue over the semantics of what "public company" means, now that the IPO has been completed. What is clear is that it is no longer 100% owned by the government. Regardless, for the sake of clarity I changed the proposed blurb to state "largest publicly traded company" which is not in doubt. Chrisclear (talk) 12:48, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I would go with exactly what the Guardian stated : "Largest listed company". That only 1.5% of its ownership is now public from this makes it hard to use the word "public" here. I have added alt-blurbs. --Masem (t) 14:23, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now, based off article quality. There is an orange tagged section, Women Empowerment, and the Saudization section reads poorly, needing some copyediting. Personally, I'm not sure this is super newsworthy, but since Chrisclear pointed out that we posted Alibaba's IPO, I will support if others do and article quality is improved. ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 13:30, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I have also at least improved the IPO section on the target article; this was connected to the drone attacks from September 2019 so had a few pieces to add from that. --Masem (t) 14:45, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per mike_gigs. While the news is clearly covering this event, the quality issues he notes needs to be fixed before this could be posted. --Jayron32 14:55, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Our struggle to find the proper superlative is quite telling. It would no doubt be noteworthy if SA went public, but it hasn't. If this is not "stock" nor "public" nor "traded" in the conventional understanding of those terms, from where do we derive an investiture of importance? Simply being covered in RS is not sufficient. GreatCaesarsGhost 15:15, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – As I understand it – and I don't understand it all – this is primarily a domestic capital-raising program by the Saudi government, since the vast majority of shares have gone or will go to Saudi investors or entities. It's not trading on Wall St. Thus, little broader impact. – Sca (talk) 15:40, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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(Closed) The Citizenship (Amendment) Bill, 2019

[edit]
rough consensus seems to be to wait until the act actually passes and survives constitutional challenges before considering posting. --Jayron32 13:52, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: The Citizenship (Amendment) Bill, 2019 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Indian parliament amends the citizenship act to make illegal migrants from six religious communities from Afghanistan, Bangladesh and Pakistan eligible for citizenship. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Indian parliament amends the citizenship act to make illegal migrants, who are Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains, Parsis and Christians, from Afghanistan, Bangladesh and Pakistan eligible for citizenship.
Alternative blurb II: ​ The Indian parliament amends the citizenship act to make illegal migrants from six religious communities from three neighbouring nations eligible for citizenship.
News source(s): [24]
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: May require some copyediting. Bit early because the Bill is under discussion in Rajya Sabha (upper house of parliament) right now. If passed (which is most likely), this nomination should be considered.
  • Comment Most sources describe this bill as making non-Muslim illegal immigrants eligible for citizenship (the source linked above does this; as does the NYT, and the BBC). That is what the blurb, and the lead, ought to say. I'm still debating whether this is significant enough to post, leaning yes. Vanamonde (Talk) 08:03, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    @Vanamonde93:. Non-Muslim is generalisation but it should be noted that the bill also excludes atheists, jews and any other than six mentioned communities. So writing non-Muslim would be not true/neutral way of presentation.-Nizil (talk)
    @Nizil Shah: That's bordering on original research. If we describe the bill, we need to describe it the way reliable sources do; and all decent sources I've seen suggest that both the intent and the effect of this bill is to exclude Muslim immigrants from naturalization. Vanamonde (Talk) 12:02, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The bill is controversial in various ways, hasn't passed yet and may then be subject to constitutional challenge. The current article is packed full of criticism contrary to WP:SOAP and would need copy-editing just to correct its English. Immigration is a hot topic in many countries (see current UK election or the hearings about the Rohingas in the Hague). It's not clear that we should highlight this particular case. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:55, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, generally per Andrew. The Criticism section is almost longer that the rest of the article, and there is an orange tagged section. ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 13:34, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above. Mount Patagonia (talk) 17:07, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose until the law has actually passed, at least. -- Rockstonetalk to me! 21:29, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for the very least, until the law has actually passed. Taewangkorea (talk) 01:50, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: The bill has been passed. Please update the vote count as per new report; initial reports last day confused vote numbers a bit. WP:UNDUE criticism issue has been resolved. (emphasis purposefully added, not WP:SHOUT)— Vaibhavafro 💬 03:18, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - It is top news on BBC. The bill is now being challenged in court. Article looks well referenced. Sherenk1 (talk) 06:53, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose until such a time as my concerns with the blurb have been addressed, per my comments above. We need to describe legislation the way reliable sources do, not its supporters (or opponents) in the legislature. Vanamonde (Talk) 10:55, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I know I have been added to the updaters list, but I guess I can still have a say; and the first thing I want to say is that this article isn't updated enough! There is too much confusion surrounding this bill + the article doesn't explain the Bill well enough for my liking. Forget the protests or who is supporting it.... what does the Bill actually do other than the one or two statements being harped by everyone, how does it connect to the main Act it is amending, what about the Foriegners Act etc etc. Wikipedia shouldn't be a source for even more confusion and misinformation. DTM (talk) 11:03, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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(Posted) Autonomous Province of Bougainville independence referendum

[edit]
Article: 2019 Bougainvillean independence referendum (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In a plebiscite held as an outcome of the Bougainville Peace Agreement, the Autonomous Province of Bougainville votes overwhelmingly for independence from Papua New Guinea (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In a non-binding referendum, Bougainville votes overwhelmingly for independence from Papua New Guinea
Alternative blurb II: ​ In a non-binding referendum held as part of the Bougainville Peace Agreement, the Autonomous Region of Bougainville votes overwhelmingly for independence from Papua New Guinea.
News source(s): The Age CNN NYT BBC AP
Credits:

Nominator's comments: While the vote needs ratification by the PNG parliament, this is a substantial stepping stone in the creation of a new sovereign state Mattinbgn (talk) 05:11, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Test cricket returns to Pakistan after ten years

[edit]
Stale.--WaltCip (talk) 01:29, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Sri Lankan cricket team in Pakistan in 2019–20 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Pakistan hosts first international Test cricket match after 2009 since the terror attack on Sri Lankan cricket team. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In cricket, Pakistan hosts first international Test cricket match in a decade, after the 2009 attack on the Sri Lankan team.
News source(s): CNN, The Guardian, Al Jazeera, BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: First of all the article is well updated and well sourced. Usually bilateral cricket series are not recommended to nominate here. But this is quite significant as the test series is hosted by the war torn nation after 10 years since the attack on Sri Lankan team. This is the major terror attack being trageted on any particular sports team. Previously Pakistan hosted test matches in the United Arab Emirates. Pakistan has also hosted ODI and T20I games in their home soil but test cricket is a five day format which was not played there over 10 years. The series is also significantly covered as a part of the inaugural edition of the ICC World Test Championship. Abishe (talk) 03:35, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support My summary of the above would be that Pakistan has not been able to play a Test Cricket Match in its own country for ten years, obviously a major disadvantage. This is now changing. HiLo48 (talk) 04:03, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Obviously my support has a massive bias! I've put a fair bit of work into this since the tour was announced, and hopefully the start of returning to some sort of normality in Pakistan with hosting top-level teams and matches. And thanks Abishe for the nom. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 05:45, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose Supporting in general but with emphasis on the fact this is a major event following the terror attack on the team. (It would be akin to putting the completion of One World Trade Center in ITNR) As such, I think the terror attack article should be the target, or a co-target article with the 2019-20 team. Fortunately, that attack article is close - it needs to be updated with this fact, and a couple para without refs (but like 4-5 at most). Note that the current blurb does not link to the suggested target article, so this also needs to be fixed. --Masem (t) 07:04, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I just sorted out the issue regarding the blurb. The prime focus is about the 2009 attack on the Sri Lanka national cricket team, which caused major concern that no international teams wanted to play in Pakistan. I can't remember any other major terror attack targeting particular sports team. Abishe (talk) 07:33, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose While this is good news, it does not rise to the level of international news, especially the continuation of something that had previously happened. -- Fuzheado | Talk 13:14, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Just as a note, international news is not now, nor has ever been, a requirement for ITN. --Jayron32 14:14, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This Australian finds this event newsworthy, as I'm sure Test Cricket fans all over the world do. Test Match Cricket, by definition, is international. HiLo48 (talk) 02:22, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Good news. Not ITN worthy. Gamaliel (talk) 14:19, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Lacks general significance. – Sca (talk) 15:43, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Building off what Masem said: >2600 people were killed at the WTC & the new one is the largest building in the Western Hemisphere. Those are BIG things. The attack here was rather modest, and the tour routine. The context certainly gives it greater weight, but not nearly so much to post. GreatCaesarsGhost 15:58, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment This discussion has moved in the wrong direction. The news here is not about a terrorist attack ten years ago. That IS old news, and we're not discussing that attack. The news here is about sport. It's about the fact that an international Test Cricket team, a country, is finally, after ten years, being allowed to play its "home" games on home grounds. I wonder if the same negativity would be appearing if the team involved was England, or the USA? HiLo48 (talk) 21:10, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I would oppose any and all, regardless of origin, parochial news of this sort. I think there is an inherent cricket bias on ITN, and I for one would do my utmost to combat it.--WaltCip (talk) 01:47, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Parochial? It's about international sport at the highest level! If we used "too parochial" as a guideline, hardly any American sporting event would ever be posted here. HiLo48 (talk) 01:59, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
We posted Sachin Tendulkar's 100 centuries, we posted Pakistan cricket spot-fixing scandal, we had the world cricket whatever in Ongoing for weeks.... --LaserLegs (talk) 03:06, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And I find American Football as boring as batshit. Seriously, these Oppose arguments are all of the form "I have no interest in cricket". Ridiculous. HiLo48 (talk) 03:42, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If we only posted the "highest level" of each sport, that would be fine, but that's not what happens. Even if we just count ITNR events, there's considerable inequity in favor of rugby, soccer, and cricket. But then these three get ad-hoc noms all the time, and we dumb yanks are told how important these three are. We cannot get even a second American Football event posted, but the big Sri Lanka-Pakistan tilt just has to get posted. RIGHT. It's a blind spot in our processes here, plain and simple. GreatCaesarsGhost 01:11, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
So this nomination must miss out because there have been some bad ones in the past? Please think about that logic. This is about a lot more than a Sri Lanka-Pakistan contest. I'll stop now, before I express any more of my frustration at the high number of stupid comments being made here. HiLo48 (talk) 03:30, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Since the reason for not visiting Pakistan was security concerns, the notable event would be the first time an international cricket team visited Pakistan. Whether they visited to play Test cricket or ODI cricket is irrelevant --NSharma21 (talk) 10:41, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Just to make sure I read that post correctly, are you seriously making a prejudgment about someone's motivations (much less nationality) based on their name?--WaltCip (talk) 13:08, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
More to the point is that NSharma21's only edits thus far are to this page and to blue-link their user page. Not exactly newbie behavior.-- P-K3 (talk) 13:44, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 10

[edit]
December 10, 2019 (2019-12-10) (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

RD: Yury Luzhkov

[edit]
Article: Yury Luzhkov (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Mayor of Moscow in 1992–2010. Currently tagged for refs, but size-wise good. Brandmeistertalk 21:56, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jim Smith

[edit]
Article: Jim Smith (footballer, born 1940) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Almost 40 years in football management. P-K3 (talk) 19:54, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2019 Chilean Air Force C-130 disappearance

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: 2019 Chilean Air Force C-130 crash (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A Chilean military plane (pictured) with 38 people on board has disappeared en route to Antarctica. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ After a three-day search, the crash of a Chilean military plane (pictured) with 38 people on board was located with no survivors
News source(s): BBC, Guardian, Reuters, AP
Credits:

Nominator's comments: High number of casualties. Unfortunately article is a stub for now. Sherenk1 (talk) 16:22, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment We generally do not report on air accidents involving military vehicles carrying primarily active military personal ("line of duty" and all that). The article needs a lot more details to be able to justify this. --Masem (t) 16:28, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – True re first point, but 38 is a significantly large (presumed) toll, and the apparent crash of this plane has been widely carried by RS media. – Sca (talk) 18:43, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Agreed. There seems to be an assumption on this point that is not settled consensus (not addressing that at anyone specific). The point conveyed at AIRCRASH and elsewhere is military craft have more accidents because of the way they are used, & commonality of events is directly linked to diminished significance. But this does not mean that military crashes can never be significant. GreatCaesarsGhost 15:39, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment the sources are unclear on this point but if the PAX were largely civilian then I think we could IAR this to the MP since it'd effectively be a civilian flight operated by the military. The death toll is completely and totally irrelevant. --LaserLegs (talk) 19:12, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose only because the article is a stub. I don't see an issue with the military personnel aspect. People are people and this does not appear to be a war-time operation. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 20:44, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as the article is too short. I could be persuaded on significance if it is expanded.-- P-K3 (talk) 13:46, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on article quality (size). If it's expanded I'd lean towards supporting. Wholly agree with C&C here. ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 13:54, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not formally opposing, but agree that existing article is too thin for Main Page promotion. If more information became available it could be upgraded, in view of likely death tally. – Sca (talk) 15:48, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

December 9

[edit]
December 9, 2019 (2019-12-09) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Science and technology

Sports

(Posted) RD: George Laurer

[edit]
Article: George Laurer (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Inventor of the barcode scanner. Andrew🐉(talk) 18:23, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Marie Fredriksson

[edit]
Article: Marie Fredriksson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [25],[26],[27], [28],[29]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: World famous singer known for her career in Roxette.

RD: Kim Woo-jung

[edit]
Article: Kim Woo-jung (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [30]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: He is a South Korean businessman and founder and chairman of the Daewoo Group. ChongDae (talk) 02:06, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Chuck Heberling

[edit]
Article: Chuck Heberling (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Post-Gazette
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article well sourced --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 01:55, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Maurice Mounsdon

[edit]
Article: Maurice Mounsdon (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ITV, BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Battle of Britain pilot, dies at the age of 101. Note: died 6 December. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:53, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not that I can see! Marked as ready ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 13:52, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sanna Marin becomes prime minister

[edit]
Articles: Sanna Marin (talk · history · tag) and Prime Minister of Finland (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Sanna Marin is sworn in as Prime Minister of Finland, making her the world's youngest serving prime minister. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Sanna Marin is the first world leader to be raised by a same -sex couple
Alternative blurb II: ​ Sanna Marin becomes Prime Minister of Finland after Antti Rinne resigns over his handling of a postal strike.
News source(s): The Guardian, Al Jazeera, CNN, BBC
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: This will be happening tomorrow (Dec 10). I hope posting here now is OK as it will encourage improvements and expansion to the rather short article before posting to ITN. Funcrunch (talk) 17:38, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@InedibleHulk: Independent of her age or parents, wouldn't she be posted to ITN as a new head of state regardless? Funcrunch (talk) 19:30, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I see the President of Finland is the actual head of state, so nevermind. Funcrunch (talk) 19:35, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Is head of government, not head of state. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:50, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Whoops, meant to say head of state. Thanks for the correction InedibleHulk ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 21:18, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If it's any consolation, I could tell it was just your fingers talking. But other people? Not so sure. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:41, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Cyclonebiskit: I admit that I am unfamiliar with Finnish government, but it is unclear to me from the Wikipedia page whether or not the president's powers are in actuality greater than that of the prime minister's. If the PM has greater authority, it seems she should be listed at ITN even though she isn't head of state. Funcrunch (talk) 22:27, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support based on recent comments by Smurrayinchester clarifying the difference between the Finnish President and Prime Minister. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 23:50, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Seems in order to me. Both draw power from the constitution, and the PM (featuring MPs) dishes out the legislative and executive duty. Kind of like Canada, except our head of state is the world's oldest female. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:23, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – For the record, the alt blurb about Marin's same-sex parents was added by another editor, not me. Funcrunch (talk) 22:15, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I am not impressed with either blurb, they look more DYK-ish to me. I certainly don't see why the supposed fact in them is of any importance either. – Ammarpad (talk) 06:38, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Certainly a young age to lead a country, but whilst she's the youngest serving right now, there are have been plenty of younger leaders in the past, including recent examples: Kim Jong-un was 28 when he took power, Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani was 33, if we stick to elected leaders then Mario Frick was 28 and there have been several recent under-30 Captains Regent. Marin's mother's sexuality does not appear relevant and would be misleading anyway (Marin was born to a heterosexual couple who later split up). A change in government might be a worthwhile blurb regardless of the records, but this was a rearrangement of coalition partners, not the result of an election. Modest Genius talk 14:30, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support A lot of confusion here about the roles of President and Prime Minster. The President of Finland is a bit more powerful than, say, the President of Ireland or Germany, but unlike France or Russia it's mostly a figurehead role now. The fact that the President technically appoints a Prime Minister is no more relevant than the fact the Queen technically appoints the Prime Minister of the UK - power is ultimately in the hands of the Parliament and the PM. We posted Boris Johnson becoming Prime Minister of the UK, I see no reason not to post this. Smurrayinchester 14:39, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Smurrayinchester our repeated failure to correct this obvious deficiency at WP:ITNR has become laughable. We post utterly powerless figure heads to the main page "because ITNR" and it's way past time to fix that. --LaserLegs (talk) 17:20, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per the two supports above. The Finnish president is clearly mostly ceremonial and it's the Prime Minister who holds real power. This is no different than when we posted Boris Johnson or Bill English becoming PM despite there not being an election or change of governing party. This change in leadership has been widely covered by news sources around the world, so there's no principled reason to oppose on that basis (as opposed to say similar changes in much smaller nations). The focus of the blurb should just be on the change in prime ministership and maybe a mention of the postal strike instead of trying to squeeze in some heavily qualified special reasons (e.g. youngest currently serving Prime MInister, first child of LGBT parents). ---- Patar knight - chat/contributions 19:49, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support ALT blurb II – the appointment or election of a head of government is as important or more important than the head of state. The article quality looks good. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 20:38, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The blurbs are trying to get around the non-ITNR aspect of this event by incorporating her age, parentage or recent strikes. Made clear, this was not a change in PM due to elections. Further, the government did not change. This is an intra-party reorganization in between elections. I consider highlighting someone's personal characteristics (age, parentage) to be incredibly degrading, because it insinuates that her major accomplishment has nothing to do with her actual work. The recent strikes, which I got to experience first-hand, were very tame compared to what we usually post. The impact just doesn't rise to the level that I would support.130.233.3.203 (talk) 07:29, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I don't think the change of a prime minister without a general election is blurb worthy. (I don't think I supported the Boris posting either).-- P-K3 (talk) 14:58, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It's still in the news; I was just reminded by coverage on the BBC. What we think of this personally is irrelevant per WP:NPOV. Andrew🐉(talk) 17:20, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment (as proposer): Can an admin close this? I'm guessing it won't get posted at this point, but I'd like to know one way or the other. For the record, I question the WP:ITNR policy of posting new heads of state but not (necessarily) new heads of government even if the latter actually hold more power. Funcrunch (talk) 17:37, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Paul Volcker

[edit]
Article: Paul Volcker (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American economist, chairman of the Federal Reserve (1979–87), dies at age 92. Davey2116 (talk) 14:10, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Russia banned from global sports for four years

[edit]
Articles: Doping in Russia (talk · history · tag) and Russia at the 2020 Summer Olympics (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Russia is banned from international sporting events for four years, including from the 2020 Olympics, due to doping violations. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The World Anti-Doping Agency bans Russia from participating in international sporting events for four years due to doping violations.
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

Article updated

 Davey2116 (talk) 10:44, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2019 White Island eruption

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: 2019 Whakaari / White Island eruption (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Whakaari / White Island volcano (pictured) in New Zealand erupts, killing at least five people and injuring many others. (Post)
News source(s): AP, BBC, Guardian, Reuters
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Developing event.  Nixinova  T C   06:20, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. "Death toll expected to rise from five," says Guardian. I get Modest Genius 's opsn, but the sudden, violent deaths of two dozen or more would be worth ITN. Five isn't. Wait. – Sca (talk) 17:40, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
PS: Having seen some of the effects of one eruption, I'll never get why people want to get close to an active volcano. – Sca (talk) 17:51, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Old saying in the news biz: "Never assume anything." – Sca (talk) 17:40, 9 December 2019 (UTC) [reply]
Old saying in the encyclopedia biz: "To a philosopher all news, as it is called, is gossip, and they who edit and read it are old women over their tea." - Henry David Thoreau. Good old ITN. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:08, 9 December 2019 (UTC) [reply]

December 8

[edit]
December 8, 2019 (2019-12-08) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

RD: René Auberjonois

[edit]
Article: René Auberjonois (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Seattle Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Well-known actor on Benson and ST: DS9. Unfortunately, sourcing is way off. Masem (t) 22:34, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted to ongoing) Samoan measles outbreak

[edit]
Article: 2019 Samoa measles outbreak (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): [32] [33]
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Was going to nominate this a while ago, but got caught up in off wiki activities. Massive death toll considering the size of the nation (post article puts it into perspective). It is ongoing, but if accepted maybe a blurb would be better. Article alright. AIRcorn (talk) 21:00, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Caroll Spinney

[edit]
Article: Caroll Spinney (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety, WaPo, NYT
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American puppeteer, most famous for playing Big Bird and Oscar on Sesame Street for half a century, dies at age 86. Davey2116 (talk) 18:19, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I understand. But I don't see anything wrong with the article, and I support linking it from the main page. —Steve Summit (talk) 21:52, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This is the farthest case I would even begin considering for a blurb. May be a fond childhood memory but we're not going to post a blurb based on that. --Masem (t) 23:52, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'd support adding a picture of Big Bird, as it is globally recognizable. Davey2116 (talk) 10:48, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Big Bird is still alive (or "alive") and working, though. Only Spinney died. He's not such a familiar face. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:38, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Juice Wrld

[edit]
Article: Juice Wrld (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety, NYTimes
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Young rapper that died from a seizure. Article is not quite there but its within range in terms of sourcing. Masem (t) 16:22, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Maurizio Cattelan's $120,000 banana eaten by David Datuna

[edit]
WP:SNOW. Mindless drivel. – Sca (talk) 15:47, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles: Maurizio Cattelan (talk · history · tag) and David Datuna (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Maurizio Cattelan's $120,000 banana eaten by David Datuna (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Both articles need updating
 Count Iblis (talk) 12:02, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose This is a sarcastic and humorous blurb which do not meet with ITN news section guidelines. It doesn't have any meaning and readers would be in disarray in case if it gets nominated. Abishe (talk) 13:27, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thousands of Wikipedia readers in disarray after a hungry artist eats a US$120,000 banana seems like a good headline though. --DBigXrayᗙ 13:51, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
...Or a devious publicity stunt.--DBigXrayᗙ 14:13, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And (not 'Or') a publicity stunt. It was also part of the Performance art. Man eats $120,000 piece of art taped to wall AFP December 8, 2019 7&6=thirteen (☎) 14:25, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
naah, I'd not call this as fake news, the man did eat the banana after all. The fact that the museum added another banana there within 15 mins, is a different story. --DBigXrayᗙ 15:12, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"Fake news" doesn't apply to this, events which actually occurred. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:15, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I agree it occurred, and that is a fact. So it isn't worthwhile "news" even if it isn't fake. But it is a manufactured event that isn't worth mentioning on the main page. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 15:18, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
yeah, to that I would agree. It is just that calling an event that "actually" happened as fake news will itself be a fake news. With all these fake news floating around, why add another ? DBigXrayᗙ 15:25, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW, I agree. And of course, there are persons in power that use the "fake news" label as an epithet, even when it shouldn't apply. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 15:33, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose It would be one thing if we were talking about a multi-million dollar piece of art of significance being destroyed, but this is definitely not that. More a funny curiosity than ITN. --Masem (t) 15:39, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Fake fruit?? All sounds a bit trippy to me. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:19, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Delhi factory fire

[edit]
Article: 2019 Delhi factory fire (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least forty three people dead and more than fifty injured in fire at a factory in Delhi (Post)
News source(s): Reuters, NDTV, BBC, CNN, AP, Guardian
Credits:

Nominator's comments: stub class, being expanded. Now start class after I expanded. Well sourced. DBigXrayᗙ 09:37, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW, Today's fire is the worst Delhi has seen since 1997, Surat is a separate city and it happened in May. LaserLegs it would be helpful if you could point the improvements on the talk page, thanks. --DBigXrayᗙ 15:05, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
User:Valereee has helped to copy edit the article. --DBigXrayᗙ 06:48, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

December 7

[edit]
December 7, 2019 (2019-12-07) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

(Posted) RD: Herbert Joos

[edit]
Article: Herbert Joos (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Stuttgarter Zeitung
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Influential jazz trumpeter and flugelhornist. When I met the article not even his death had a ref. Much more could be possible, - he has an article on his recordings on de. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:16, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Bump Elliott

[edit]
Article: Bump Elliott (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Long-time college sports coach and administrator. Article is classified as a GA. Lepricavark (talk) 18:39, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ron Saunders

[edit]
Article: Ron Saunders (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Veteran football manager. Article is in good shape. Black Kite (talk) 23:52, 7 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted to ongoing) 2019 Maltese protests

[edit]
Article: 2019 Maltese protests (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Maltese Prime Minister Muscat set to resign in January amid continued and escalating protests in Malta. (Post)
Alternative blurb II: ​ A series of protests rock Malta, following an investigation into the murder of Daphne Caruana Galizia
News source(s): CNN, BBC ABC news,
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: News on the protests have been widespread across international and national agencies. Protests are ongoing, and of national and European importance. Zugraga talk 09:55, 7 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: I'm not sure if my comment is allowed - the "dozens" you are referring to refers to a small protest carried out by Maltese in London. Tomorrow, another demonstration in Malta has been announced, with a turnout expected in tens of thousands, as all other protests in Malta. Thanks! Zugraga talk 18:14, 7 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • So when that happens it will have been the second protest of any significance in a week -- still not "ongoing". I don't care that much if it's blurbed I just don't want a slow simmering story festering in the box for a year. --LaserLegs (talk) 23:15, 7 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose ongoing, willing to support individual blurb only. While the event is continuing, subsequent updates wouldn't be worthy of ITN-level postings, but a regular blurb about what's going on would be. Can consider an additional posting with a later resignation. SpencerT•C 19:13, 7 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ongoing and/or blurb OK The article topic seems reasonable updated for ongoing and has no major problems. Taewangkorea (talk) 23:53, 7 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
On second thought I will support a blurb once the Prime Minister resigns, so ongoing for now I guess. Taewangkorea (talk) 06:06, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question don't we usually wait for the Prime Minister to actually resign before posting this kind of blurb? Banedon (talk) 00:07, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have posted to ongoing. Discussion about a blurb should continue. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 06:26, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb since the PM hasn't resigned yet. He can change his mind anyday. --DBigXrayᗙ 17:38, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment This is getting messy. The nomination was for a blurb and posting to Ongoing does not, by my eye, have consensus. The above comments are correct in that the blurb can't be posted as-is, because plans to resign has not historically met the impact threshold at ITN. The updates to the article are a bare minimum for a current event, the organization of the article is not good but passable, and on reading through the article I lost track of what, exactly, the protests are supposedly about. I strongly suggest to pull from Ongoing and continue with this as a blurb nomination. I have suggested an alt-blurb that I think is more reasonable. If Ongoing is desired, someone should make an Ongoing nomination so we can vote clearly for/against that.130.233.3.203 (talk) 11:13, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

December 6

[edit]
December 6, 2019 (2019-12-06) (Friday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Berkley Bedell

[edit]
Article: Berkley Bedell (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): KUOO News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Member of Congress for ten years. Article appears to be in good shape. Ad Orientem (talk) 22:15, 7 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Ron Leibman

[edit]
Stale --DannyS712 (talk) 04:11, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Ron Leibman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Start Class article of an American actor. Sourcing, especially filmography needs volunteers to work upon. DBigXrayᗙ 09:25, 7 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) 2019 Hyderabad gang rape

[edit]
Article: 2019 Hyderabad gang rape (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Four suspects in the Hyderabad gang rape case are shot dead by the police. (Post)
Alternative blurb II: ​ The four suspects in the Hyderabad gang rape are shot dead while trying to escape by the police.
Alternative blurb III: ​ The four suspects in the Hyderabad gang rape are shot dead while allegedly trying to escape by the police.
News source(s): CNN, BBCDawn ABC news, NDTV AFP
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: The news of rape and murder was itself widely reported. After the Police encounter it has become a leading news item across international newspapers (see links above from today). The article is well sourced. DBigXrayᗙ 13:12, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Suppport Noteable and definatly in the news at the moment. N0nsensical.system(err0r?) 14:22, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I made an altblurb as to clarify why they were shot (knowing that, if this were the case in the US, the original blurb would question if the police willingly did it). All accounts I see state the police were acting in according when the suspects attempted to grab weapons and flee during scene recreation, making it a justified shooting. --Masem (t) 14:27, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Masem, The concern I have with the alt blurb is, we are assuming the claim by the police as a fact here. Only an independent investigation by NHRC that is ongoing, can bring out if it was indeed what the Cops (who are the killers here) were indeed being truthful or if it was a fake and staged Police encounter. AFAICS the sources are attributing the claim to the Police, and there is no reason for Wikipedia to not do it. --DBigXrayᗙ 14:43, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I can understand that - just that none of the RSes are posing that question. As I mentioned, if this was in the US, it would be implicit that there was a possible police setup to kill these outside the justice system. I don't know if India has that same problem, but the sources are not giving that impression - no one seems to be begging the question of the police story, yet. I have no problem with the alledgely in there as in the alt2, but the first was just a bit too terse that it could have been read that this was a criticized action on the police, where in fact its being treated as a resolution on the rape crime. --Masem (t) 14:54, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support original blurb. Alt blurb would need to be changed to allegedly, according to the police, trying to escape during a 3am reconstruction of the crime. :) --valereee (talk) 14:38, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note Added Alt III which should address the concerns noted above. --Jayron32 14:51, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – I must confess some doubt about the wider significance of this sordid episode, which seems to depend on its lurid and violent character for newsworthiness. – Sca (talk) 14:58, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Slow down I keep thinking the same thing, and mentioned as much in an earlier incident. Rapes happen everywhere, and India is a big country. As an American right now, I'm thinking WHAT THE HELL is going on in India with all the rape/murder/burning incidents all of the sudden? Gang rapes of 8 year olds?! Then my brain clicks and thinks - is this not just a matter of media coverage? I honestly don't know which is true, but we should weigh that question carefully. GreatCaesarsGhost 15:07, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Honestly, the thing you think after your brain clicks is true. Sometimes I wonder how you, as an American, are even alive right now, with the opioid, shooting and fascism epidemics tearing your world apart simultaneously. Then my brain clicks. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:04, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
InedibleHulk, Sca, User:GreatCaesarsGhost. If it was just a rape, we probably wont even be having an article on wiki. yes rapes happen everywhere, but not all rapes are covered like this. The reason for the enormous coverage is the enormous public protest and outrage that came after the rape. You can see the Aftermath section to understand more. --DBigXrayᗙ 19:05, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That's fair - the reaction is the story. My point (before it was intentionally perverted) is that a casual reader may not make that connection, but instead read a steady stream of rape stories about India as evidence that India is uniquely afflicted. GreatCaesarsGhost 19:30, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Opinion - The frequency illusion that tags India as rape central is a good article on this. Side discussion continued on User_talk:GreatCaesarsGhost --DBigXrayᗙ 21:34, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Apart from various aspects of culture, India does have one point of uniqueness directly related to potentially increasing gender issues -- its rapidly tilting gender ratio, currently 1.12/1.13 males to every female through the age of 24 (fifth highest in the world at birth) and climbing. In a country of 1 billion+ population, that adds up to a lot of unattached men. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 00:57, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support either original or ALT3; pace Masem, but I don't think anyone actually believes that the police's story is wholly unelongated, and certainly not to the extent of treating them as a WP:RS (as opposed to having the biggest WP:COI since Charles Canning won an Influencer of the Year Award, 1857). ——SN54129 15:01, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Unelongated – is that like unmeaningless? – Sca (talk) 15:28, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
LaserLegs, Are you saying a problematic sentence is reason to keep the blurb off the main page? Because if it's just an issue you've found in the article that needs to be fixed, it's generally better to just fix it yourself, or if you can't figure out how to fix it, you can discuss how to fix it at the article talk rather than bringing it up in the itn nom. --valereee (talk) 17:47, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with valereee, this is bickering. I don't see any problem in the sentence, but if someone thinks they can rewrite it in a better way, they are welcome to change it.--DBigXrayᗙ 19:01, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Agree all you want, I read articles before rushing to pile "support" on some "very important" bullshit if that's not good enough for y'all I don't know what to tell you. These ESL articles ALWAYS have questionable grammar and require constant attention while on the MP. Nevermind... --LaserLegs (talk) 19:41, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I have no clue what ESL articles mean. Nevertheless, you should know that "require constant attention while on the MP" is never a reasonable justification to oppose a proposal for Mainpage. That is another bickering. --DBigXrayᗙ 19:48, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Presumably English as a second or foreign language is what LaserLegs is referring to.-- P-K3 (talk) 20:08, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
LaserLegs, not only have I read the article, I've edited it heavily in the past 8 hours. The sentence you objected to as being disqualifying for the article being linked from the main page was fixed by this: The police has have not confirmed a link between the second corpse and the veterinarian's murder. --valereee (talk) 20:40, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@LaserLegs: Indian English can be appropriate under MOS:TIES.—Bagumba (talk) 02:25, 7 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Agree, thanks Fuzheado--DBigXrayᗙ 19:00, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Tabloid trash in any language. – Sca (talk) 14:30, 7 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

December 5

[edit]
December 5, 2019 (2019-12-05) (Thursday)
Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

(Posted) RD: Ji Zhe

[edit]
Article: Ji Zhe (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): SCMP, Xinhua
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Three-time CBA champion, died at age 33. Zanhe (talk) 07:10, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Robert Walker (actor, born 1940)

[edit]
Stale, unimproved. Stephen 02:15, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Robert Walker (actor, born 1940) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: American actor. The article has several issues, but I'm working on it. --SirEdimon (talk) 02:06, 7 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) SMS Scharnhorst

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: SMS Scharnhorst (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The wreck of the German armoured cruiser SMS Scharnhorst (pictured), sunk in December 1914, is discovered near the Falkland Islands. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The wreck of the cruiser SMS Scharnhorst (pictured), which sank during the Battle of the Falkland Islands in December 1914, is discovered
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Interesting news and it's a featured article. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:52, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

PS: This is not the noted battleship Scharnhorst of World War II. – Sca (talk) 19:16, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) 2019 Sri Lankan Swiss embassy controversy

[edit]
Procedural close: The article is currently at AfD and a speedy close does not appear likely. I would also note that this has been going on for a while and might reasonably be considered stale. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:31, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2019 Sri Lankan Swiss embassy controversy (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Sri Lanka and Switzerland engage in a diplomatic standoff after the abduction of Swiss embassy personnel in Colombo (Post)
News source(s): BBC, Al Jazeera
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: This is a major incident in Sri Lankan politics after the 2019 Sri Lankan presidential election and has been in the headlines since 25 November 2019. Abishe (talk) 10:39, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I have slightly re-formatted your nomination to include the updated & bolded article and to re-phrase. At a minimum, the article needs some CE. Note that the sources in the nomination are from 27 and 28 Nov., while the motivation for the nomination is based on reports from today in lesser-known sources. More coverage may develop in the coming days.130.233.3.203 (talk) 11:13, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now. It's a fascinating story - one that I think could be featured on ITN - but the sourcing is questionable and the article is currently red tagged as a candidate for deletion. If there is consensus to keep the article, please ping me for reconsideration of my vote. ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 13:09, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Self oppose I am extremely sorry for this nomination because it has now been Afded and it might not be factually right to get into ITN section. Possibly if the article is retained then can think about this. Abishe (talk) 14:46, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 4

[edit]
December 4, 2019 (2019-12-04) (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents
  • A boat carrying refugees capsized near Nouadhibou, off the coast of Mauritania, in one of the deadliest maritime disasters this year, leaving 58 people dead and many more who tried to swim to shore in need of treatment. The boat had departed The Gambia on 27 November 2019. It was heading towards the Canary Islands when it approached the Mauritanian coast to get fuel and food. The boat had been carrying between 150–180 people when it capsized, most of them aged between 20 and 30. (The Guardian)
  • A gas explosion in Szczyrk, Poland causes a three-story building to collapse and kills 8 people (tvn24.pl)

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

(Posted) RD: Chen Xingbi

[edit]
Article: Chen Xingbi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Xinhua
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article is fully sourced. Zanhe (talk) 11:16, 7 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Tetsu Nakamura

[edit]
Article: Tetsu Nakamura (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Japanese humanitarian in Afghanistan whose murder has been making headlines worldwide. Zanhe (talk) 01:11, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Parker Solar Probe

[edit]
No consensus to post. Stephen 21:52, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Parker Solar Probe (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Scientists publish four papers reporting their findings from the Parker Solar Probe's first two of three dives toward the Sun so far. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Parker Solar Probe's first findings report "rogue" magnetic waves.
Alternative blurb II: ​ After flying closer to the sun than any probe in history, the Parker Solar Probe's first findings report "rogue" magnetic waves.
Alternative blurb III: ​ After flying closer to the sun than any probe in history, the Parker Solar Probe's first findings report "rogue" magnetic waves strong enough to completely reverse the local magnetic field and increase solar wind speeds by 300,000 mph.
News source(s): The New York Times, The Guardian, Nature [35], National Geographic
Credits:
Nominator's comments: May need more of an update than my layman's understanding of the Physics. This should be an ITNR, by my interpretation, as the mission is now accomplishing its goal, but our criteria for probes and other spacecraft at ITNR needs to be updated reflect the modern way these missions accomplish their goals. Reaching their destination is not the major accomplishment anymore. It is times like these when scientists report their findings that the mission reaches its true climax. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 02:56, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose We did post when Parker "arrived" at the Sun last August in an operational state. We have 6+ more years of scientific study. Unless we have a groundbreaking result, this is not really news. (If we had not posted its arrival, this would have been a way to recognize that) --Masem (t) 04:40, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Masem, no we posted the launch. We have not posted the arrival. In a manner of speaking, it will arrive at its destination more than 2 dozen times (already reached the Sun's corona three times). So arrival is not a major accomplishment for this mission. Results are the major event for this mission. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 05:30, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Hrm. I thought that was arrival, but yeah. Obviously this is an important mission, but we can't post every time papers are released, (and with about 3 passes each year, that's potentially a lot). I would still want to see some fundamentally important affirmation/discovery from the data that is groundbreaker rather than just because the first data was published. But I'm not sure now yet. --Masem (t) 05:38, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    We need an expert. @Modest Genius: what do you think? The media is making a big deal out of this. Is this much ado about nothing? --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 05:50, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Sorry, I have a conflict of interest on this one, so should refrain from !voting. I do think this nomination needs to be judged on the scientific advance, not 'arriving at destination', as that doesn't really apply to PSP (even first perihelion would have been a stretch). Modest Genius talk 12:01, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Ping Kees08 too. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 05:52, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose there're plenty of astronomy missions and it's not plausible to make their reporting of results ITNR. For example, just count how many probes were launched by the European Space Agency that we have articles on (and that's only one space agency). These missions all led to scientific papers as well, many of them quite important for their respective fields. There's nothing especially important about these Parker papers other than the fact that the media has chosen to cover them. Banedon (talk) 06:16, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support – Four reasons:
    1. Solid article.
    2. There are not plenty of astronomy missions like this one. These are the first published scientific data from the closest we've ever been to the sun. The headline of yesterday's editorial in Nature (journal) was Parker probe kicks off a golden age for solar exploration: Humanity is finally getting up close and personal with Earth’s nearest star.. The media is widely reporting it. NPR: An unprecedented mission to venture close to the sun has revealed a strange region of space filled with rapidly flipping magnetic fields and rogue plasma waves. National Geographic: Today, four studies in the journal Nature report the first data from NASA’s Parker Solar Probe, an unprecedented mission that has been able to fly ever closer to the sun, three times so far, and taste its coronal breath. Already, these close encounters are solving some solar mysteries, and they’re revealing a treasure trove of unexpected findings. NYTimes: Scientists released the mission’s first batch of findings on Wednesday, revealing that the dynamics of our star are even weirder than once imagined. Space: The first science results are in from NASA's Parker Solar Probe (PSP), which has flown faster and closer to the sun than any other human-made object in history. Science News, Reuters, CNN, CNET, Guardian, Independent, Le Monde, India Today, The Australian and so on.
    3. We are an academic project and it would be good to have something in the box that isn't politics, sports, natural disasters, or recent celebrity deaths.
    4. Great picture. – Levivich 06:47, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Sorry, but I have to agree with Banedon here. It's not reasonable to make spaceflight any more ITNR than it already is, as there's a flurry of high-profile events about to happen; ongoing results from Juno and Parker, the OSIRIS-REx asteroid landing, the launch of Chang'e 5, the return to Earth of Hayabusa2 (that one probably will be significant enough to highlight), the maiden flights of Dragon 2 and Boeing CST-100 Starliner (which will mark the return of crewed US spaceflights after the retirement of Shuttle), the start of construction on the Chinese large modular space station, the launches of four separate Mars missions (US, Russia/ESA, UAE and China), and activation of OneWeb and Starlink, all over the next 12 months. Our existing guidelines (both written and unwritten) when it comes to spaceflight were drawn up before the start of the latest space race and if anything need to be tightened, not loosened. ‑ Iridescent 09:37, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Strictly because the blurb does not make clear the significance of the event. It might well be that, even clarified, the significance is not high enough. Publishing reports is de rigueur for these kinds of projects, even if the project yields nothing new. Contra above, I do not think that existing rules wrt spaceflight should be tightened, because I don't sense an over-abundance of spaceflight items getting into ITN.130.233.3.203 (talk) 10:37, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per IP 130.233.3.203 above. The publishing of findings is a poor blurb in my opinion - the blurb should mention the findings and what's significant about them. If they found anything of interest, that would be the event I think ITN would want to cover, but it does not seem that's the case here (from my novice understanding of physics). ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 13:02, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    mike gigs, alt blurbs added. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 03:30, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now because I find the blurb banal and uninteresting. Scientific papers are published daily on a variety of subjects. What makes them newsworthy is what those papers say. If we can get a blurb that outlines a particularly novel or groundbreaking bit of science this probe has provided for us I would reconsider, but this is a nothingburger. --Jayron32 14:48, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Jayron32, alt blurbs added. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 03:30, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Alt blurb – "After flying closer to the sun than any probe in history, the Parker Solar Probe observes a thousand "rogue" magnetic waves strong enough to completely reverse the local magnetic field and increase solar wind speeds by 300,000 mph." (Sources: [36], [37], [38], [39]).
    • Shorter: "The Parker Solar Probe's first findings report "rogue" magnetic waves and other solar surprises."
    • While this isn't the scientific breakthrough of the century, that shouldn't be the metric by which we judge inclusion. This is a lot more rare than "head of government elected" or "head of government resigns", which are two blurbs currently in the box. – Levivich 15:33, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • I think that's closer to what we need. I would drop the "and other solar surprises" as basically meaningless. --Jayron32 17:00, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        I would support just "The Parker Solar Probe's first findings report 'rogue' magnetic waves." There are four papers published about four separate findings of the probe, and rogue waves is just one of them, which is what I intended to convey with something like, "among others", but it's really hard to condense four scientific papers into one short blurb. Perhaps just picking the rogue waves one is best. – Levivich 17:29, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        Levivich, please go ahead add a couple of blurbs to the nomination template and add the facts you want to highlight to the article body. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 21:45, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
         Done Updated the article and added some alt blurbs to the nom. – Levivich 02:38, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Haven't we posted this (or something very similar) recently? – Ammarpad (talk) 04:32, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Wider significance beyond a niche audience is not apparent. What impact do the 'findings' have on people in general? – Sca (talk) 15:06, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Altblurb II or altblurb - but altblurb III makes me feel like there might not be anything more in the article - so I probably wouldn't bother clicking rogue waves - and regards the previous comment by Sca - I think that's not important - some foreign leader resigns has very little direct impact, but doesn't mean it isn't potentially interesting EdwardLane (talk) 12:18, 7 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) P. Chidambaram

[edit]
Closed. Consensus against posting. – Ammarpad (talk) 04:34, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: P. Chidambaram (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former Finance Minister of India gets bail after 106 days in prison. (Post)
News source(s): IndiaToday, BBC
Credits:
 175.157.245.124 (talk) 17:22, 4 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Bob Willis

[edit]
Article: Bob Willis (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Daily Telegraph; Sky News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 SchroCat (talk) 16:14, 4 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Ritchie. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 16:31, 4 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Alphabet Inc. CEO changed

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WP:SNOW closing. No chance of getting support at this point. --Jayron32 12:16, 4 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Proposed image
Articles: Alphabet Inc. (talk · history · tag) and Sundar Pichai (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Google CEO Sundar Pichai becomes the CEO of parent company Alphabet Inc. after founders Larry Page and Sergey Brin stepped down. (Post)
News source(s): [40] [41]
Article updated
 2409:4062:2E93:B445:5C8C:925:3991:8A43 (talk) 07:25, 4 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 3

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(Closed) RD: Cha In-ha

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Withdrawn by nom. Insufficient chance of expansion. ミラP 17:39, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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December 2

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(Posted) RD: Mutaib bin Abdulaziz Al Saud

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Template:Ping credits please. --Vegan Gypsy (talk) 14:54, 7 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Johann Baptist Metz

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(Posted) RD: George Atkinson III

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(Posted) RD: D.C. Fontana

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(Closed) COP25

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  • Oppose - Not certain but I don't believe we typically list conferences as ongoing, even UN ones. In any case, I'm not sure the article will be updated a ton during the conference. Perhaps when it is over there may be some news to blurb, but I don't see much updating being done in the meantime ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 21:26, 2 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose ongoing, Wait for blurb. Ongoing is for articles which have incremental updates which individually would not merit inclusion in ITN, but do collectively. It isn't generally for things that are merely in progress. I could see posting a blurb for the commencement of this conference, but it would probably be better to post the conclusion if some notable agreement is reached. 331dot (talk) 21:29, 2 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose ongoing - If there is a major decision that falls out of the conference in two-weeks time, then we can go with a blurb, but we usually do not post these international conferences (UN, G7/8, G20, etc.) unless we have something newsworthy about them. --Masem (t) 21:54, 2 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait – The conference lasts two weeks and will produce a plethora of verbiage and data, some of which might be be newsworthy and blurblable. Whether it might be more suitable for Ongoing we shall see. However, such a momentous topic probably will deserve a "climate conference ends with..." blurb at its conclusion. – Sca (talk) 22:27, 2 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose maybe we'll have a blurb at the end of the conference, but conferences generally don't belong in the ongoing section. Lepricavark (talk) 06:48, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support when conference concludes. The news is already out that the optimistic scenarios we're going to end up with 2.9 C warming, while the evidence for entering into a Hothouse Earth state due to an initial warming of more than 1.5 C as mentioned here has become a lot stronger. If the conference concludes without any pledges for stronger action, then that will be very significant news just as any pledges to implement very strong actions. Count Iblis (talk) 12:27, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yet at the same time, I would not be the least bit astonished, considering The Orange One's boorish eagerness to crash out of the Paris Agreement and tout the wonders of beautiful clean coal. That may diminish its significance somewhat.--WaltCip (talk) 15:42, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Everyone is tired of the topic, but that doesn't mean it's not newsworthy. – Sca (talk) 14:12, 4 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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(Posted) Power of Siberia opened

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  • Support 3,000 km of pipe, $400 billion over 30 years for 1.8 trillion cubic metres, sourcing looks fine. Maybe a blurb with an impressive number? Delivering gas to China isn't much, in itself. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:02, 2 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Altblurb added — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:06, 2 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support alt1. This does seem to be a major piece of infrastructure, with geopolitical implications, and the article meets ITN quality criteria (barring one Template:Tl tag). However the article left me wanting more information (such as the actual cost, not just the planned one) and is strangely uninteresting. Surely there's more to say about the context and implications of such a project? Modest Genius talk 12:58, 2 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    [42] has some interesting context and a map that makes the one in our article seem misleading... Modest Genius talk 13:10, 2 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose - While the article looks fine, I'm going to argue that this event really isn't significant enough to be featured on ITN. It simply seems like just another big pipeline - and while that may not be the case, the article doesn't suggest there is anything special about this pipeline compared to others (is it a biggest? a most expensive? a first? etc). However, as this is my subjective opinion, I am open to changing my vote based on others arguments for significance ~mike_gigs talkcontribs 13:09, 2 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It's the widest (flow-wise), beating Yamal-Europe by five billion annual cubic metres. In theory, anyway. We'll see next year. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:54, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Hong Kong protests

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That article mostly signifies nothing, too. Hundreds carried balloons, called on people who weren't there, then dispersed in an orderly fashion at dusk, like pedestrians. A few rowdies in the news chucking stuff, but a few mildly bad apples don't bump up the bunch. InedibleHulk (talk) 14:50, 2 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article is a good overview article, and being sufficiently updated for the level of detail, per WP:SUMMARY, one would expect. Sub-articles broken off for space are appropriate and also in good quality. --Jayron32 13:42, 2 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – Per Jayron. Still the biggest story in the world's 'biggest' (pop.) country. – Sca (talk) 14:40, 2 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - The article has already failed the criteria: "The article needs to be regularly updated with new, pertinent information" per WP:ITN, and it has been removed from 'ongoing'. I don't think we may reinstate the ongoing status for the same article which has been judged as not regularly updated. STSC (talk) 16:22, 2 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note that the article was removed from ongoing without any comment on its updates. It was removed because we posted a blurb about the district council elections. Davey2116 (talk) 18:19, 2 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
IP has this one right. Searching Google for a definition of "siege", I get "an operation in which a police or other force surround a building and cut off supplies, with the aim of forcing an armed person to surrender", which is a picture perfect description of what happened. Banedon (talk) 00:35, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe you should get the CUHK article renamed again, since consensus was against you there. --LaserLegs (talk) 01:06, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, even China Daily called it a siege. But what another article is called really makes no difference to this nomination. So maybe move that discussion to the article talk of said article?2003:D6:2729:FFD1:6921:9F6:90F7:B605 (talk) 01:08, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Ping - Template:Tq was the exact description given in Reuters / Associated Press / Agence France Presse / BBC / Bloomberg / Al Jazeera / Nikkei Asian Review. I'd like to see you provide sources that are even more neutral that what I can come up with. Plus, you have mixed up the universities. The Chinese University of Hong Kong conflict is not the same as the Siege of the Hong Kong Polytechnic University. Clearly, you are not as well read on this issue as I would have hoped. starship.paint (talk) 04:58, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
So, the Polytech article still uses siege in the name and is not renamed like LaserLegs claims? Oh well... What is the issue regarding the term 'siege' NPOV wise anyway? Seems to be a term used to describe the event by both sides (link to a China Daily article in a previous comment), plus all the sources Starship paint linked to and my basic search from before... What is your issue here exactly LaserLegs? Why is it not NPOV in your opinion? 2003:D6:2729:FFD1:F091:9422:AF9A:319A (talk) 07:04, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
So CNN calls it an occupation since we're cherry picking WP:RS which suits our POV and rightly points out that the students were free to leave any time they just faced arrest -- so not a siege at all. Cool right? --LaserLegs (talk) 10:17, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Cherrypicking sources? You cannot be serious with that. In this nomination alone there are 11 sources calling it a siege, from both sides of the issue no less. You present one source and say the rest of us are cherrypicking to suit a particular POV?!? And since when is a siege defined through physical harm? It does not matter if they 'just faced arrest' (citation needed on that by the way). Banedon gave you the definition for what a siege is. So, again... What is your actual issue here. And this time please without cherrypicking a single source and making a pompous argument out of it. For example, why is 'siege' not ok in your opinion? What is the value judgement of the term, how is it POV? Please explain that. You may not like this "zombie article", as you called it before, but come on... this is ridiculous. 2003:D6:2729:FFD1:F091:9422:AF9A:319A (talk) 10:57, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Ping - what a ridiculous charge of cherry picking given the breadth and the quality of the sources I've provided, followed by original research (Template:Tq) totally contrary to reliable sources. Who's the one cherry picking, when CNN has also called it a Template:Tq? starship.paint (talk) 10:58, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
CNN also calls criticism an attack, Washington a battlefield and information ammunition. News skirts the line to make the mundane feel interesting, encyclopedias needn't ought to. It is technically a very small siege, though (any besieged force is free to surrender). InedibleHulk (talk) 11:16, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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December 1

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RD: Lil Bub

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Template:Re Yes, so I switch to support. ミラP 15:12, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yikes... I need to look closer at the sources themselves, not just which claims are sourced. Switching to oppose per GreatCaesarsGhost ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 20:43, 4 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Iraqi protests

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