Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents

Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents
This page is for urgent incidents or chronic, intractable behavioral problems. Before posting: Read these tips for dealing with incivility If the issue concerns a specific user, try discussing it with them on their talk page Try dispute resolution Just want an admin? Contact a recently active admin directly. Be brief and include diffs demonstrating the problem Do not report breaches of personal information on this highly visible page – instead go to Requests for oversight. When starting a discussion about an editor, you must leave a notice on their talk page; pinging is not enough. You may use {{subst:ANI-notice}} ~~~~ to do so. Closed discussions are usually not archived for at least 24 hours. Routine matters might be archived more quickly; complex or controversial matters should remain longer. Sections inactive for 72 hours are archived automatically by Lowercase sigmabot III. Editors unable to edit here are sent to the /Non-autoconfirmed posts subpage. (archives, search)
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Hindu News

Ther are legal and physical threats over at RSn being made (apparently) by representatives of Hindu News [[1]], but they have a fluctuating IP, so is there anything we can do to stop this? Slatersteven (talk) 13:48, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes please, multiple clear NLT violations. 100.36.106.199 (talk) 13:55, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

These are the IPs that have been used in the discussion: Special:Contributions/47.31.153.39 Special:Contributions/47.31.133.164 Special:Contributions/49.36.183.2 Special:Contributions/49.36.183.2 Special:Contributions/47.31.153.221. The last one is blocked but needs TPA pulled, too. 100.36.106.199 (talk) 14:00, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

And this [[2]] means it needs to be a perinant block, as this is a direct threat to target WMF staff. Slatersteven (talk) 13:55, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

This is not the first time this organisation and it's IPs have been brought to ANI see also [3] [4] - Ratnahastin (talk) 15:01, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

And it needs to be applied to every involved IP. Slatersteven (talk) 13:57, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't think perinant is a word, which is a shame because it should be. EEng 14:31, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

• Considering the diff provided by Slatersteven, I blocked the IPs that were clearly identified as employees of the company due to legal threats. I don't think TPA is needed right now, though. Isabelle Belato ^🏳‍🌈 14:05, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

There was no LEGAL THREAT. It is a clear and direct caution that aggrieved Hindu Raksha Dal cadres, acting on their own and individually, may physically discipline WMF employees and users in India if there is any abuse or disrespect to our HINDU organization/s and project/s on your web portals - as they have done in the past. WMF Legal and WMF CEO is very well aware of considering the past LITIGATION between our organisations, DMCAs, Office Actions etc. Anyway, what we say here is previously publlshed by us on the ICANN website [5] and can be verified from WMF and also from WP:/LTA. The LTA will show we have unlimited supply of IP addresses, so blocking is a waste of both our times. We suggest you get WMF to impose a GLOBAL BAN on us if they dare. Have a nice day.

Somebody responsible should report this discussion to WIKIMEDIA EMERGENCY email ID also. 47.31.183.210 (talk) 14:29, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Noting that there also appears to be a threat of physical assault on WMF employees there. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 14:31, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Hey, but it's not like anything they say at [6] is crazy or anything. Stuff like ...

IAC says the present UDRP is grossly biased in favor of trademark holders. The domain name holders are subjected to RDNH akin to the Jews of Europe being eliminated in Auschwitz gas chambers. IAC demands a DENAZIFICATION of ICANN and the UDRP along with its NAZI collaborators like WIPO. It seems WIPO selects their panelists for their stupidity and for strict obedience to follow WIPO's self created gas chamber operation rules. It is no coincidence that WIPO is located in Switzerland where the bulk of the Nazi Gold was stored. IAC shall list out a few of WIPO's tricks to RDNH IAC's domain.

... make perfect sense to me. EEng 14:38, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Certainly wasn't on my bingo card for today. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 14:40, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

They make extensive use of legal threats directed at individual editors, the WMF, and the Wikimedia India chapter; they also engage in serious harassment, both on- and off-wiki. Whack-a-mole is so tedious, lets smash a few pumpkins instead. 47.31.148.206 (talk) 14:55, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

This may need escalation to a global ban, and maybe more as they are making direct theats, and an outright threat to sock. Slatersteven (talk) 14:57, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

The IP's references to IAC suggest a relation to Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/India Against Corruption sock-meatfarm. MrOllie (talk) 15:06, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes. That is correct. I provided the tq to assist you. HINDUNEWS.STREAM is a property of the Hindustan Republican Army (check its Whois). IAC is an affiliate of HRA. The brand name IAC is owned by HRA. The Hindu Raksha Dal and Hindu Rashtra Dal are armed military wings of HRA to protect peaceful/defenceless Hindu religionists in India. Let's have a civilised conversation and ignore the trolls.47.31.162.201 (talk) 15:15, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

If you want a civilised discussion, stop making threats. And stop wp:socking wait till you block expires and come back without the attitude. Slatersteven (talk) 15:16, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Hindustan Socialist Republican Association? So it very much will not be an RS. Slatersteven (talk) 15:19, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Coming off of your threat to have your stormtroopers assault WMF staff and Wikipedia users if WP doesn't do your bidding, I'd say that civilized discussion has up and left the building. Count me very much in favor of a range block wide enough to chop these IPs down. Ravenswing 21:56, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Soooo did anyone actually contated WMD about the threats of violence? --Trade (talk) 17:55, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

(Redacted) Blaxstocatamazon (talk) 18:14, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

@Blaxstocatamazon: I'm not sure who you're replying to with this message but please read WP:NOTFORUM. This website's discussion boards aren't meant to be used to list a ton of controversial claims that, if they're not sourced, will never be added to any article. City of Silver 18:43, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

While WP:BLPCRIME does not apply here, I have redacted the frankly explosive claims made by Blaxstocatamazon above on the grounds that the accusations made, with no evidence presented, are wholly inapproriate regardless of what the subject is, and because the edit itself implicates multiple CTops. IP editor: Anything said specifically to attempt to intimidate other editors into compliance is generally grounds for a block (if not for it being a legal threat, then because you are attempting to force article content). —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{threads critiques} 18:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

• Did anyone besides EEngs read through the link EEngs provided? The comments are pure insanity. It talks about assassination, for God's sake. For editing an encyclopedia? This goes beyond legal threats. I'm surprised that there was no response from ICANN as it was posted on their website. To me, it matters whether IAC is an actual organization or just the rantings of one crazy, zealous person. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:57, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

• This was an earlier warning about this group, Hindu Raksha Dal. Hard to know how much is real and how much is exaggeration to attempt to intimidate. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:36, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

I tried to tell earlier but got deleted. (Redacted) Blaxstocatamazon (talk) 11:18, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

In mitigation, they're nice to bovines. EEng 13:58, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

How about buildings with windows? But yes, bulk of the Nazi Gold was stored there, wasn't it. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:50, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Nice storyline. But it's clear that you are related to this LTA in some way as noted before on your talkpage by me long ago [7]. - Ratnahastin (talk) 15:14, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

The medical NGO I advice sometimes uses their assistance in certain places of India to operate safely, as also their networks in goverment when needed for advocacy or governmetal action. eg like 2024 Kolkata rape/murder. So something about their storyline is known. Blaxstocatamazon (talk) 15:49, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

You were essentially repeating same claims about filing a report with the national task force for doctor safety/Supreme court[8] as the IPs of hindu rashtra dal did on the talkpage of Kolkata rape incident. [9][10][11] Making legal threats on the same page also led to your block.[12] I have no doubts that you are related to them in some way, given how the first thing you did after getting unblocked is comment in this thread. - Ratnahastin (talk) 16:43, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Col. Rajendra Singh Dalvi [1][2] who claims to be secular and liberal - The links you cited all points to the opposite of what you wrote, are you trolling? - Ratnahastin (talk) 16:47, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Aaaaaand I've redacted the new claims for the same reason I redacted the old, plus a dash of blatant BLP violations. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{threads critiques} 20:47, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

The only partially veiled threats of violence are among the most alarming things I've ever seen on Wikipedia. Simonm223 (talk) 21:08, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Holy shit... Tavantius (talk) 20:43, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Don't worry -- it's really just these guys [13]. EEng 22:32, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

I'll just mention this related ANI discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#SumoAvocado is seeking to intimidate a long term admin. The editor who came to my user talk page asked me not just to remove this discussion (and other discussions of Hindu News) but to revision delete all edits that made up the discussion. That account has been blocked. But I have the feeling that they will be back. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:58, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I am kind of wondering if it would be wise to advise the WMF of the threats of physical violence that have occurred within this conflict. Simonm223 (talk) 18:15, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Of course it would. It would also be a good idea to inform them that various people feel empowered to make such threats by the WMF's seeming willingness to roll over in the Asian News International vs. Wikimedia Foundation case. I'm sure we'll see much more of this. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:31, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Is the any more than this we can actually do, just be vigilant? Slatersteven (talk) 11:17, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

These accounts should be globally locked, to make it clear that we don't tolerate any of this anywhere on Wikimedia. I submitted a few on m:Steward requests/Global. Yann (talk) 22:06, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

(Redacted) 47.31.186.213 (talk) 06:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Looks like we have another. At this stage just socking.Slatersteven (talk) 13:06, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

No edits outside of the ENWP. Just re-report if those blocked accounts have activity on other projects. Ahri Boy (talk) 00:19, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Upd Edit - project sock?

Upd Edit (talk · contribs)

This account has no edits beyond the open letter talk page and offer nothing constructive. I think this is a project sock. I seek a block on the account as such. I would considered myself being WP:INVOLVED given my participation in related discussions. The account has been notified. – robertsky (talk) 09:30, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

This diff Sounds like something an admin with very specific skills may be able to deal with. @Smartse do you think you'd be able to help out? A^♭m ^(Ring!) _(Notes) 09:37, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm afraid I'm not sure what you mean. SmartSE (talk) 16:38, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

What leads you to the conclusion that this is a sock, rather than, for example, someone who has been editing unregistered but has decided to register in order to comment on that talk page? Phil Bridger (talk) 09:53, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

There is a possibility that an unregistered editor registering an account to comment on the page, but the likelihood would be low in my opinion. The open letter is publicised mainly to registered editors via the the watchlist notice. The talk page isn't restricted in any manner so anyone can comment, even when unregistered. – robertsky (talk) 10:36, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

As an IP editor I can say I saw this the same day it was created, it was very attention grabbing with all the people editing, no watchlist needed. I see now that Phil Bridger announced the open letter at the village pump too, afterwards. That is to say, this is not some obscure thing (not that you claimed it was).

Here is a question: if this is the sock of someone, IP or not, would it not be a valid reason for creating a single sock(privacy)? – 2804:F1...F5:391A (::/32) (talk) 16:46, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

This strikes me as a valid type of sock account? -- asilvering (talk) 16:52, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

If it is unregistered editor trying to shield their IP addrees, sure. But if it is a registered editor? How so? WP:PROJSOCK only allow project sock accounts if the discussion affects their account directly. The issue, the court case, at hand affects only three editors. It may not be beneficial of them to participate in the discussions in any manner as we already have seen that the plaintiff's lawyers had tried to bring in last minute arguments such one of the three editors participating in the open letter and paint everyone here in unfavourable light. Any claims that this case will affect one's privacy of others in the future is WP:CRYSTAL as it is open ended at the moment. – robertsky (talk) 18:07, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I would say that responding to an open letter on a sensitive political subject would be a legit sock in the spirit of "privacy" (and maybe "security"), and the fact that the discussion has hundreds of participants means that the negative effects of a project sock are vastly reduced. I'd change my position on that if they were obviously tag-teaming with a regular account, or if they were trying to dominate the discussion in some way. -- asilvering (talk) 19:21, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Without knowing whose sock they are, there is not much to be done here unless a Checkuser drops by and decides they should investigate. But I don't see this editor's 5 edits as being disruptive and warranting a block. They might be an SPA and just be interested in this court case but but being an SPA doesn't violate any policies. Many of our current editors started off as SPAs and grew to be interested in other subjects as their skills improved.

But there is another case brought to ANI (see below) about suspicions of editors participating in this discussion about this WMF mess and what POV they might be pushing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:44, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

This may not be “dominating the conversation” but it does have some features in common. (On the other hand they haven’t edited in more than a day, so this is probably moot.) 100.36.106.199 (talk) 11:41, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

This complaint seems related to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Users TracyVaghmare91 and Hemacho328wsa are NOTHERE right below this one. I was just reviewing the Open Letter talk page, to try to answer a question for ACE2024, and I noticed a number of brand new accounts stirring things up there. I'd say, let's see if this behavior continues into this week and then see if it still needs to be addressed. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:54, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

As Liz already pointed out, there's a number of users like this. In addition to TracyVaghmare91 and Hemacho328wsa, this also includes Zubehamoreha and Dzień dobrry. Cortador (talk) 07:23, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Wikimicky1, Armenian genocide denial, personal attacks, disregard of Wiki policies, WP:BLOCKEVASION

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Wikimicky1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Wikimicky1 has not only engaged in several attacks despite being told no to, they have also disregarded our policies. This includes openly admitting that they don't care about this site and that they were blocked for being a sock of indeffed Armenian genocide denier User:Ungitow, while simultaneously denying the Armenian genocide.

They said this in one of their first edits on 7 May 2022: Hi, apparently I have been blocked along with user:Ungitow. Some donkeys (admins) thought I was associated with the editor. Hilarious. These admins are lowly cowards and they surely don’t care about justice or the truth. I don’t care about Wikipedia a bit anymore. They can block me as much as they like. They can’t silence me in the real world! No, I don’t believe in the so-called Armenian massacres also referred to as by another name. Call it denial. It never happened the way propagators say it did. The truth shall not be silenced. Peace.

Personal attacks:

• 14 July 2022: No dear, your answer is clear evidence you are ideologically biased. Who is Cambridge? Are they the final say on religious subjects? So a source is considered reliable le by you if it’s published by Oxford or Harvard. I see. Hmm, most of Wikipedia is garbage then, according to your flawed logic. Anyway, you probabablu don’t speak Turkish. Chances are you’re just a pro-Persian person living in the West. No I’m not personally attacking you. I’m just saying things as they are. Your profile is enough to show how partial you are.

• 11 November 2024 If some pro-Iranians want to push the agenda...

• 12 November 2024 But one of those I referred to is definitely you and your actions. Please apply the same standards to your own editing and stop being biased and your POV editing. Thank you. (the first line refers to the previous attack a day earlier)

Keeps disregarding (WP:IDHT, WP:TENDENTIOUS) the plethora of WP:RS and WP:CONSENSUS based on it [14] regarding the ethnicity of al-Biruni, resorting to edit warring [15] and openly disregarding it in the articles talk page [16]. --HistoryofIran (talk) 12:49, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I am a bit surprised to see this on the verge of being auto-archived. Am I missing something here? I tried to make the report as reader friendly as possible. Wikimicky1 literally openly admitted to being blocked for socking as an Armenian genocide denialist, while simultaneously denying the Armenian genocide, i.e. WP:BLOCKEVASION. HistoryofIran (talk) 04:43, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

I guess an admin didn't see it? 172.99.146.47 (talk) 06:12, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

I am not associated with the other user/editor. The above allegations hold no truth. HistoryofIran is trying to frame me because he could not deal with my logical argument and the reliable sources I provided. See Talk:Al-Biruni. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikimicky1 (talk • contribs) 07:28, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Comment : Anybody who takes a look at the talk page of Wikimicky1 may see a wall of warnings, this editor is all but a net positive to this project, support indef as per WP:NOTHERE.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 09:00, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• This is a difficult situation. The behavior of the editor was clearly not exemplary, and they had a bunch of warnings at their talk page. However, in the Al Biruni episode, when they were pointed out to the RfC they stopped edit-warring. They have never been blocked, and imo in this situation blocking indef only makes sense per WP:NOTHERE - and while they clearly exhibit indications of NOTHERE, they are here not only to push pro-Turkic POV, but also to make positive contribution. (I can not comment on the statement that they are a sock of blocked user, the best is probably to open a SPI - if they are a sock they of course need to be blocked). More appropriately, one would start with short blocks and escalating them, eventually to an indefinite block - but blocking for the Al Biruni episode would look like punishment at this point. Every admin if welcome to disagree with me, but I think the only reasonable course of action is to wait whether this behavior comes back, and, if yes, block. I will add their talk page to my watchlist and see whether I can this myself (though I am generally busy these days in real life).--Ymblanter (talk) 09:34, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  Thanks Ymblanter. Unfortunately the SPI will probably come out stale, since it was two years ago. I had already mentioned the RFC twice to Wikimicky1 [17] [18], only to be met with insults and edit warring, which wasn't the first time they've done that. Heck, even right now in this very thread they're saying that "above allegations hold no truth." and "he could not deal with my logical argument and the reliable sources I provided." showing that they haven't learned anything. This user is WP:NOTHERE imo. HistoryofIran (talk) 13:38, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  Maybe they had some few "positive contribution", but this editor is all but a net positive to this project. Another case of WP:NOTHERE.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 13:58, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Personal attacks, edit war in contentious topic

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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CmsrNgubane (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Special:GoToComment/c-CmsrNgubane-20241115171700-Manyareasexpert-20241115135300 personal attacks - Your responses are clearly emotional, you refuse to accept the reality, This is a classic display of cognitive dissonance, your bias really blind you this much

Some kind of threats? I really wanted to avoid being aggressive but it seems this is the only language you'll will understand. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 17:55, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Edit war: adds contested content [19] , pushes it with edit war [20] claiming "vandalism", again [21] , adds [22] WP:TASS, removes [23] no relevance tag. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 18:04, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Partial blocked indefinitely from BRICS, as this seems to be the main locus of the disruptive editing. However, looking back through their contributions, I'm not sure if this will be enough to stop the disruption. I'm considering this a normal admin block, though it does seem to arguably fall under CTOP/EE.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 21:23, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

SarekOfVulcan, you might consider extending this partial block to Talk:BRICS as this is where personal attacks are happening. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:30, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm waiting to see what happens when he next edits. If anyone sees the need to broaden the block before then, I don't mind. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 01:28, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I apologize for losing my temper yesterday, I think I was frustrated that nobody was willing to hear my point of view, nonetheless I admit now that I went out of line with some of my responses and I deeply regret that. I just want to appeal directly to you to reverse the block as I am deeply passionate about the BRICS project and I believe I can contribute a lot to the article for years to come.

Best wishes CmsrNgubane (talk) 04:10, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I want to express my deepest of apologies, I regret losing my composure in that manner. CmsrNgubane (talk) 05:10, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I've been doing some thinking and I've realised that I owe you nor any another stranger on this platform no explanation, if you don't like my factual editing then the problem lies with you, claim personal attacks all you want, it changes nothing, the truth is universal, live with it. CmsrNgubane (talk) 06:23, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

After taking time to think about this clearly, I've decided to withdraw my request to be unblocked because I know that I will end up in another battle because I do not cower to any man , I fight for what I believe in and do so feverishly and it's a trait of mine that I am proud of, therefore I will not change my personality for anonymous people on Wikipedia and if this statement that I've just made earns me a total block then I am prepared for that, infact I've just realised that I've been wasting precious time guarding articles for what reason actually?, it's been good being part of the community for awhile but it's now time for me dedicate my free time on endeavours that actually pay money. CmsrNgubane (talk) 06:12, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Also noting edit-warring at Cape independence with bizarre summaries. Borgenland (talk) 01:29, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Good morning sir, I just want to take this time to clarify the contentions on the Cape independence article, I believe that it is correct to classify the group as a separatist organisation since it seeks to break apart from South Africa, furthermore I would like to inequivacally stress that none of my edits are made with the intentions of disrupting, I make the edits based on approved citations, I have recently developed a passion for editing and I want to help contribute to making Wikipedia better for the reader.

Kind regards CmsrNgubane (talk) 04:03, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I've been doing some thinking and I've realised that I owe you nor any another stranger on this platform no explanation, if you don't like my factual editing then the problem lies with you, claim personal attacks all you want, it changes nothing, the truth is universal, live with it. CmsrNgubane (talk) 06:16, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Everything I said is true and factual, you are just soft as hell, yes this is a personal attack, now go cry to Mommy and Daddy and tell them to block me completely. CmsrNgubane (talk) 06:26, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Request granted. Sitewide indef block. —C.Fred (talk) 06:33, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Please see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/CmsrNgubane. 100.36.106.199 (talk) 12:33, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Please also block the range of obvious IP socks editing BRICS (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs). ManyAreasExpert (talk) 15:20, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

I protected the page to start with. Ymblanter (talk) 15:44, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

BrocadeRiverPoems behavioral issues

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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I am making this report because I recently found this post (found by searching up the username of the user in question), where the suspicious editing patterns of this user was brought up in a similarly contentious article with another user complaining about the exact same patterns of hostility and dogpiling: [24]. This report was made through the lens of someone involved in the article 15.ai, so if anyone who was involved in the maintenance of the article Yasuke could chime in, that would be very much appreciated.

The user User:BrocadeRiverPoems has demonstrated a clear pattern of editing that prioritizes ideological alignment over adherence to Wikipedia's core policies, including neutrality, reliable sourcing, and civility. In multiple contentious discussions, such as those surrounding the articles on Yasuke and 15.ai, has engaged in aggressive and accusatory behavior that discourages meaningful collaboration among editors. Their edits often involve the use of unreliable sources or misrepresentation of reliable sources or deletion of sources they deem unreliable, which are then used to support their preferred narratives ([25], [26], [27]). These actions have not only disrupted the editing process but have also led to a hostile environment on talk pages, alienating other contributors and stalling productive dialogue ("I suggest stepping back and seeing how presumptuous (and frankly alienating) your comments are. You’ve crafted an elaborate theory about coordinated editing and suspicious motives based solely on contribution patterns. Not every editor needs to be constantly active to make valid contributions, and returning to defend an article I reviewed from deletion is perfectly natural. Occam’s Razor applies here, and I hope anyone else who reads this can see it for themselves as well." from Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/15.ai/1). Anyone who dares to disagree with this user are met with harsh accusations and hounding, and despite being a relatively new user to Wikipedia themselves, the user is happy to scrutinize the editing patterns of anyone who isn't active on Wikipedia 24/7 ("With all due respect, your continued penchant of vanishing from Wikipedia and returning only for championing the existence of this article is highly unusual." from Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/15.ai/1; "It is not, frankly, presumptuous or absurd to suspect something is suspicious about an editor who erroneously assesses 2 articles as good, one of which is full of copyvio, and then disappears for an extended amount of time and returns only to defend this article." from the same page, "Whether you yourself were involved in the coordination is immaterial, my point is that because there was demonstrable coordination it is not unreasonable to view your assesment, disappearance, and return solely to defend the article, subsequent re-disappearance, and subsequent re-return to defend the article"). (see: the entire discussion at Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/15.ai/1 and Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#15.ai_behavioral_issues. where I and several other users were accused of single-purpose editing by BrocadeRiverPoems). Hypocritcally, they consistently spend a great deal of time and effort dissecting the verbiage of every editor that disagrees with them down to every individual word, but are also happy to offer circumstantial evidence to support their argument, such as accusations of off-wiki coordination ("The AfD for the article was interfered with by WP:SPA vote-stuffing", "Yes, RocketKnightX and HackerKnownAs are tag-teaming to keep the article against consensus.", "Coupled with demonstrable evidence of off-site coordination in editing the article on 4chan (which is demonstrable in the archived 4chan thread used as a source in the article) and the apparent failure of the WP:DRN and the continued edit warring by User:RocketKnightX and WP:OWNBEHAVIOR from User:HackerKnownAs, I am raising this concern to the Admin Noticeboard." from Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#15.ai_behavioral_issues. and "See Editor Interaction Analyzer on 15.ai. [...] This is insanely quick, and is a sign of co-ordination." despite my insistence that I have never participated in off-wiki manipulation). For example, they stress that they have "pointed out numerous flaws with the article, and corrected many of them", and yet were happy to make edits that unashamedly violate WP:YESPOV like [28], which I had to edit (before my edit was eventually reverted).

Several people have been affected by this user's hostile behavior, myself included ("I felt bullied by this user to the point where I logged out of Wikipedia, planning to never to come back." from this very thread). Their confrontational approach to editing and discussion has created an intimidating atmosphere that discourages constructive dialogue ("As for some mysterious "circle of sockpuppetry", bullshit.") and the condescending attitude towards those who take breaks in between editing Wikipedia (" Which is to say, you made few edits after you assesed the article and then you left for 6 months and returned only for the AfD and then departed again.") does not help at all, and violates WP:DEADLINE. For instance, in my interactions with them, I was met with accusatory language and baseless claims of single-purpose editing, despite my efforts to engage respectfully and in accordance with Wikipedia policies. Other editors have similarly expressed frustration with this user’s tendency to dismiss opposing views outright and escalate disagreements into personal attacks or relentless scrutiny of editing patterns.

Furthermore, it was brought to my attention in Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/15.ai/1 that this user possibly belongs to a Discord server that has been allegedly coordinating off-wiki efforts to influence the content and direction of certain articles for months, including 15.ai. This raises serious concerns about violations of Wikipedia’s policy on COI and potential breaches of neutrality and good faith editing, especially with IP users like 180.129.92.142 suddenly coming out of the woodwork and virulently attacking me and throwing several serious accusations at me.

To summarize, editors have expressed that the user in question has violated the following Wikipedia policies:

• WP:GOODFAITH
  • "You've crafted an elaborate theory about coordinated editing and suspicious motives based solely on contribution patterns"
  • Made accusations about single-purpose editing without evidence
  • Claimed "The AfD for the article was interfered with by WP:SPA vote-stuffing"
• WP:CIVIL
  • Made hostile and condescending responses that led one user to say "I felt bullied by this user to the point where I logged out of Wikipedia, planning to never to come back"
  • Created an environment on multiple discussion pages where editors felt their contributions were viewed with suspicion just because they took breaks or haven't contributed to Wikipedia as much as the editor in question
• WP:HOUND
  • Followed and criticized specific editors' break patterns: "With all due respect, your continued penchant of vanishing from Wikipedia and returning only for championing the existence of this article is highly unusual"
  • Continuously questioned others' editing motives
• WP:DEADLINE
  • Criticized editors for taking breaks: "you made few edits after you assessed the article and then you left for 6 months"
  • Used breaks as evidence of suspicious behavior: "returning only for championing the existence of this article is highly unusual"
  • Questioned legitimacy of contributions based on activity patterns
• WP:NPOV
  • Made edits that blatantly violate WP:NPOV (e.g. [29])
  • Misrepresented sources to support preferred narratives
• WP:RS
  • Deleted sources they personally deemed unreliable
  • Misrepresented reliable sources to support their preferred narratives
  • Deleted a number of sources used in the article (not all sources must be perfectly neutral; see WP:BIASEDSOURCES, which says "However, reliable sources are not required to be neutral, unbiased, or objective. Sometimes non-neutral sources are the best possible sources for supporting information about the different viewpoints held on a subject.") and then claimed that the subject did not meet notability — Preceding unsigned comment added by HackerKnownAs (talk • contribs) 07:10, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
• Possible WP:SOCK and WP:COI manipulations
  • Allegations of off-wiki coordination with IP users (via Discord or elsewhere)
  • Allegations of sockpuppeting on an unrelated article but with similar behavioral complaints raised by other editors (see [30]) — Preceding unsigned comment added by HackerKnownAs (talk • contribs) 07:27, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I have never made a report like this before on Wikipedia, so I do not know if this is the proper way to do this. I have always attempted to be cordial when interacting with editors on Wikipedia. I have also tried to always assume good faith, and I am hoping that this incident can be resolved. Thank you for your time, and I hope to continue contributing to Wikipedia. HackerKnownAs (talk) 04:31, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

This, of course, completely disregards the fact that most editors agree with BrocadeRiverPoems's edits. 180.129.92.142 (talk) 04:56, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

You know @HackerKnownAs, you haven't participated I can't find any traces of you in this RFC, which took place at the bottom of the page. This RFC has been up since 4th of November , and the discussion whether 15.ai should be in the past tense is since 7th of November. At least discuss there before reverting other editors consensus. 🔥YesI'mOnFire🔥^{(ContainThisEmber?)} 13:39, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Even @BrocadeRiverPoems has discussed there, why haven't you done that too? 🔥YesI'mOnFire🔥^{(ContainThisEmber?)} 13:40, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Admins please ban HackerKnownAs! Its so obvious his edits are only to make trouble. Andthewinnerisme (talk) 04:30, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Collapsing personal attacks. Isabelle Belato 🏳‍🌈 01:57, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

brocade is a serial gaslighter on discord, please dont trust them because their discord server will team up together and find the best way to make them look good while making everyone else bad this has been going on for months now and theyve been doing this for any articles they dont like (theres a channel for this) i was in that server before and i should have left a long time ago, the gaslighting on wiki is insane and i feel bad for the editors Rin6626 (talk) 14:28, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I wasn't even aware that an RFC was up, let alone know what an RFC was. I apologize for my ignorance, but I've largely stayed away from Wikipedia politics in favor of making edits that I believe contribute to the betterment of Wikipedia. HackerKnownAs (talk) 17:14, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

@HackerKnownAs: Firstly, you are required to notify the user you are reporting on their talk page, using the template provided at the top of this page.

Secondly, can you explain this edit where you appear to further an edit war in order to make a point?

Thirdly, can you explain why Wikipediocracy is being used as "evidence", both here and in the previous diff? ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  04:57, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

My apologies. I have never made a report like this before, so I was not aware of the first point. I will make that notification after I finish writing this.

For the second point, I was under the assumption that being bold and making changes yourself was encouraged on Wikipedia, as per WP:BOLD. Again, I am sorry if this was seen as furthering an edit war; that was not my intention. My intention was to revert the article back to a stable point before all of the edit warring occurred.

For the third point, I am not using it as evidence, but as supplemental material. I was not aware of this forum before I found this discussion, and I found it interesting and relevant that the exact same complaints that I and various other editors have had about this user were restated in this forum. HackerKnownAs (talk) 05:05, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Having taken a look at the talk page and the edit history of 15.ai, you are repeatedly restoring your preferred version against the consensus of multiple other editors, who have complained about this behaviour on the talk page.[31][32]

I'll be blunt; this looks like a retaliatory, frivolous report full of WP:ASPERSIONS and I'd suggest to the admins that this be closed quickly with a WP:BOOMERANG. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  05:39, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Special:Permalink/1257688676#15.ai behavioral issues., filed by BRP, may be relevant background to this filing. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 05:10, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

HackerKnownAs, each one of your many accusations has to be accompanied by a "diff" or edit illustrating an example of the behavior you are identifying or this report could be seen as casting aspersions. Evidence, not just suspicions, have to be present in a report. Also, if you have evidence of misbehavior in an off-Wikipedia platform, please send it to the Arbitration Committee, there are privacy concerns that make it inappropriate to be shared here. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:40, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Without commenting on the underlying merits of this either way, I am pretty sure that everything here just had a whole ArbCom case about it. As such I'd support quick closing this as moot: if you go through a whole case where you were a party without sanctions, I don't think that bringing that same person to ANI right after for the same behavior is appropriate. Loki (talk) 05:46, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I might be a little sensitive to the whole "retaliatory-report-based-on-old-evidence" thing right now, but I'd think that alone should merit a BOOMERANG here. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  05:51, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

In the previous discussion, the editor who posted in the AN was advised to bring it over to AN/I. I apologize if this was not appropriate – I was not aware. HackerKnownAs (talk) 06:01, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm the admin that stated that ANI was a more appropriate noticeboard for this level of specific complaints than the discussion that was started at AN which I closed. But, as I said, you need to start adding diffs soon to support your accusations or this could backfire on you. It's a risk of posting a complaint on a noticeboard that all parties are under scrutiny. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:17, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I have added my diffs. I apologize again for not following the appropriate formatting for this report. I will continue to edit to bring some more context. HackerKnownAs (talk) 06:47, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

HackerKnownAs, I feel like I'm throwing a lot of advice at you tonight but it is really distracting to editors who are approaching this case with fresh eyes to have so much content BOLDED. Using Bold or Italics can be used for highlighting an individual word but having half of your comments in Bold font will just turn readers off. It's a little overwhelming. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:50, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I apologize, but I attempted to follow the same formatting style as in the last AN report, where the relevant quotes were formatted differently from the original text. Is there an easier way to do this? HackerKnownAs (talk) 06:52, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Consider {{tq|q=y|Quote goes here...}} which renders as Quote goes here... EducatedRedneck (talk) 14:45, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for posting this. To User:GhostOfDanGurney and User:Liz, I’m one of the many editors that BrocadeRiverPoems has accused of single-purpose editing by scouring through my edit history and ignoring my contributions because I took a break in my Wikipedia editing months ago. I felt bullied by this user to the point where I logged out of Wikipedia, planning to never to come back. It doesn’t surprise me that BRP has a history of bullying others, and I’m not surprised that the GA thread was brigaded by her cronies. Even if no decision is made here, I hope that my statement brings some context to the situation and explains that this isn’t just User:HackerKnownAs posting out of retaliation, it’s all of us affected by it behind it. ~~ SirGallantThe4th (talk) 05:51, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Once again, SirGallantThe4th, you have to provide diffs to support these claims of bad conduct. Other editors have to be able to review them to see if there is a basis to your allegations. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:20, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/15.ai/1

I suggest you read this please. This whole page is chock full of BRP saying that my GA approval was illegitimate because of my contribution history. Why would a Wikipedean already taking a break due to personal life issues want to come back after reading that their contributions are meaningless because they weren’t making enough edits? It’s especially weird when someone goes through my history to try and prove my motives were evil. Bullying doesn’t have to be via name calling, it can be as simple as being cast as suspicious just because someone with more power or influence says so. ~~ SirGallantThe4th (talk) 07:17, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

SirGallantThe4th, Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/15.ai/1 was chock-ful of strange accusations about off-wiki collusions, I think if an admin had seen this, they would have shut this down before it went so far. First, I think you are mistaken that this editor has power and influence as they are a relatively new editor although they do have all of the terminology down. I'd just advise you that if someone is making unfounded allegations against you, don't feel like you have to spend your time on the project defending yourself. Explaining yourself can be useful in discussions like this one on ANI but this page was a review of an article, not an examination on the motives of the editors who worked on it and this discussion went completely off-the-rails.

I will say though that it is very unusual for an editor with your level of experience to be doing GA reviews. How did you find yourself in this area of the project? Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:50, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Given my suspicions have apparently been proven correct, can this be put to rest? User:SirGallantThe4th admits in their block appeal that they know HackerKnownAs [33] and have even met up in person. My suspicions about the GA assessment were, as it turns out, completely warranted. They also admit in their unblock request to essentially orchestrating harassment against me simply because they thought it was unfair that other editors were agreeing with me[34]. They specifically mention in their appeal that they were apart of a Discord together. It is not possible that an article submitted and primarily written by HackerKnownAs which was reviewed, evidently, by their friend SirGallantThe4th, to be neutrally reviewed and assessed as Good. Brocade River Poems (She/They) 23:06, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Collapsing personal attacks. Isabelle Belato 🏳‍🌈 01:57, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

brocade is a serial gaslighter on discord, please dont trust them because their discord server will team up together and find the best way to make them look good while making everyone else bad this has been going on for months now and theyve been doing this for any articles they dont like (theres a channel for this) i was in that server before and i should have left a long time ago, the gaslighting on wiki is insane and i feel bad for the editors because theyre taking advantage of new editors who are new to wiki to make them look like idiots Rin6626 (talk) 14:30, 16 November 2024 (UTC) At the risk of being told I am bludgeoning again, the accusation that I am running a specifically transgender Discord that is dedicated to taking down MLP on Wikipedia is plainly absurd. I mean, if it pleases the jury I can record a video of me going through my Discord, you'll find no such existence of me owning this alleged Discord. Brocade River Poems (She/They) 14:41, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I would like to ask, very politely, how you even came upon this ANI Discussion about me before even I did? It was posted 04:31, 16 November 2024 (UTC) and you joined the conversation at 05:51, 16 November 2024. You were not, to my understanding mentioned directly [35] in the complaint, nor were you notified on your TalkPage about it (you very well should have been, but then, so should I have been, and some other individuals as well). I'm just confused by it, I suppose, since you stated that I had made you feel so bullied that you logged out of Wikipedia, planning to never to come back. Given that you surely had 0 knowledge that there was going to be an ANI complaint posted about me, and you've never participated at ANI before, I'm just unsure as to how you go from never logging in again to happening upon an ANI discussion about me? Of course, you're totally free to complain about whatever conduct of mine you feel is egregious, I fully encourage and support it. As I said in my post below, I apologize if you feel that I bullied you, and I struck through the relevant comments. Brocade River Poems (She/They) 12:13, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I will state that the reporting user is currently using WPO in an edit dif [36] for a reversion. Moreover, the WPO evidence that is being used against me is essentially a duplicate of an attack page which was G10'd [37] which pretty grossly misrepresents my activity on Yasuke at large. It's so much so of a misrepresentation of my activity that I didn't even warrant a Finding of Facts on the ARBCOM case at Yasuke Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Yasuke/Proposed_decision. My apologies for the length of my reply, but there is a lot of ground to cover in the accusations.

Regarding Sources

Their accusations against me here include a statement Their edits often involve the use of unreliable sources or misrepresentation of reliable sources or deletion of sources they deem unreliable, which are then used to support their preferred narratives. The offending sources I removed were mostly deemed unreliable by consensus, were WP:SPS, or were misrepresented. For instance, the wording of the article currently reads Lauren Morton of Rock, Paper, Shotgun and Natalie Clayton of PCGamer called it "fascinating,", however, reading the sources they don't actually say that. Lauren Morton actually says Machine learning is absolutely fascinating[38] and, as I mentioned, doesn't mention 15.Ai specifically in terms of "fascinating", while Natalie Clayton says It's all very fascinating to read about[39].

Andrew Ng's The Batch was declared an unreliable source when 15.ai was still a draft. Gwern describes itself as someone's personal website they use to remind themselves of stuff. I'm hardly the only editor that has found issues with the content of 15.ai.

SPA Explanation

where I and several other users were accused of single-purpose editing by BrocadeRiverPoems

By myself, an others, historically, even[40]. And, as indicated by your edit history [41] as I linked in the Admin Noticeboard. The only reason I even brought this to the Admin Noticeboard initially is because of the blatant WP:STONEWALLING. Consensus was reached about issues regarding the article and you continue to ignore said consensus and make reverts to your preferred version. In our exchange, I reverted your reversion of an edit that had been developed as a DRN solution to a content dispute [42][43] and after your second revert in that exchange, I stopped.

Discord Accusation

As for the accusations leveraged against me elsewhere that I'm on some discord trying to get 15.ai deleted, there's no reality or merit to that statement. I came upon 15.ai browsing random articles, saw that an edit war was transpiring, and started noticing peculiarities about the article and made note of them and fixed what I could about the article. Notably, BrocadeRiverPoems is an identity that I use exclusively for Wikipedia and nothing regarding my Discord or my life outside of Wikipedia can be linked to my editing of Wikipedia. The most I will reveal about my real life is that I had a roommate who attended the same MA Program as I, and my former roommate would edit on Wikipedia. Said information is fully disclosed on my profile. Said roommate moved out, and I haven't really spoken to them since. As I have freely admitted elsewhere, I was an IP Editor for a time, and I made the account so I could make a post regarding the historical usage of the word "sayamaki" when editors were translating the mention of Yasuke being given a sayamaki.

Hounding Accusation

by scouring through my edit history and ignoring my contributions because I took a break in my Wikipedia editing months ago

Scouring through your edit history is a bit of an exaggeration. When I was looking at the Good Article Assessment after I found several problems with the article, I looked at the edit history of the Good Article Review process and discovered that you had only assessed one other article, and that that article had been deleted for copyvio. It isn't scouring your edit history to see and note that you assessed the article, that you left, and that you were specifically canvassed back[44] for the AfD and returned to vote keep at the AfD. All of that is on a singular page of edit history.

Brigading Allegations

It doesn’t surprise me that BRP has a history of bullying others, and I’m not surprised that the GA thread was brigaded by her cronies.

I am unaware that I have such sway over anyone?

It doesn’t surprise me that BRP has a history of bullying others

Again, these are false accusations that originate from a user who got blocked after harassing myself and others[45].

AfD SPA Evidence

As for my claims that the AfD was interfered with by SPA Vote Stuffing, it plainly was. [46][47][48][49]. These individuals had limited activity on Wikipedia usually only editing 15.ai or 15.ai's competitors before voting Keep in the AfD and then disappearing from the site. One account is even named "Throwaway" indicating it was created for the specific purpose of voting in the AfD. Considering your participation in an AfD to delete NovelAI[50] which was put up for deletion by an account similarly named [51], and NovelAI is a competitor to 15.ai in that, to my understanding, NovelAI offered TTS features, it looks as if accounts were created solely to influence the 15.ai vote.

GA Discussion Rebuttal

This whole page is chock full of BRP saying that my GA approval was illegitimate because of my contribution history.

The page is chock full of me saying your editing contribution was suspicious because of the irregularities surrounding the article, and that regardless of that, the article should have never been assessed "Good" because it had numerous glaring issues including a source that is considered generally unreliable WP:WEGOTTHISCOVERED. As you can see in my initial statement, where I pointed out the unaddressed COI concern from 2022 that had been purged by a drive-by IP Editor and never properly addressed as one of many reasons the article should not have been assessed as good. My statements regarding your activity were to highlight that you were an inexperienced reviewer whose only other Good Article assessment was an article that was deleted because of copyvio, which is not a good sign for the other article. I likewise noted that your activity ceased and resumed only to defend 15.ai, as Good Article reviewers are supposed to be uninvolved in the articles which they assess. Your later statement It pioneered accessible neural voice synthesis, was widely covered in tech media, and influenced numerous subsequent AI voice projects. I would not be exaggerating when I say its advent was one of the biggest news in the AI space in 2020 and 2021 only further solidfied my belief that you shouldn't have reviewed the article, because you seem to have an interest in the topic.

If you feel that I have hounded or bullied you, than I apologize and I'll go strike it out right now.

Off-Site Manipulation Evidence

As for statements that I make baseless claims about off-site manipulation of the article, Anonymous uses at PPP discuss fabricating sources [52]. When the article was published, it was announced on the PPP according to the archived discussion that was used as a literal source in the article [53]. Likewise, [54] and [55]. When the image was deleted from the Wikimedia commons for copyvio, they re-uploaded it as non-freeuse which I put up for deletion because it didn't fulfill the non-free use policy requirements [56]. The Level of the Pony Preservation Project's involvement in 15.ai is apparently to such an extent that HackerKnownAs created an entire redirect to 15.ai of Pony Preservation Project[57] [58]. Here are people claiming the Wikipedia article is someone's reputation [59] Here is a post directing people to use 15.ai for the history of the PPP [60]. Here is a post discussing even creating the article [61], dated 07 Mar 2020, with the article being created 05 Apr 2020 [62].

Talk Page COI Deletion

As for the argument that I only push things that support myself, the user who seems vigilant about vandalism did not bat an eyelash in regard to the deletion by an IP Address that other than apparently engaging in BLP Vandalism, only removed a talk page discussion about their potential COI editing [63][64] shortly before the article was nominated for GA Status.

Unconstructive Edit Rebuttal

As for my edits being "unconstructive", I removed a Medium link that was members only, and a Gwern link that directly referenced the Wikipedia article [65], I removed a cited tweet that didn't say what it was being cited for as well as a Gwern link that didn't mention the PPP or 15.ai directly [66]. Here, I removed Andrew Ng who was being misrepresented and Tyler Crowen's blog because the blog is a WP:SPS and Tyler Crown is an economist, not an expert in AI. [67], I later found out that Andrew Ng was declared an unreliable source when the article was a draft, but was re-added after the draft was released as an erroneously flagged minor edit [68] and I removed WeGotThisCovered and more Andrew Ng [69]. Beyond those edits, I reverted HackerKnownAs when he undid the compromise that was decided at DRN which HackerKnownAs reverted and I did not further contest.

My next edit on the main article was undoing a user randomly changing the dates of maintenance tags and in the article [70].

Misrepresentation Evidence

At the Good Article Reassessment when I pointed out flaws in the reviews, I was asked Are you able to fix these issues by AirshipJungleman29 and so I did [71]. I also corrected the contents of the Japanese sources since they seemed to be google translated and were wrong [72]. Roughly translated, the Japanese actually states Some users used 15.ai to show a demonstration of their use of GLaDOS for an assistant by using the tool “VoiceAttack,” which enables a PC to be controlled by voice. At this point, it looks like Siri-esque sorcery. Perhaps in the future, through the power of such services, there may be an assistant that can assist the user with a voice of his/her choice!, which is not quite the same as saying "15.ai is like magic". Brocade River Poems (She/They) 11:05, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I want to also include in this discussion as this post by User:RocketKnightX has occurred after I posted my initial statement [73] that these defamatory accusations harvested from an attack page that was recreated on WPO are continuing to be thrown around. Noting, again, that the original content of this so-called evidence used was originally created by a user who engaged in a campaign of harassment against myself and other editors, see User:Nocomputersintexas and [74], specifically, the removed edits from the IP Editor specifically mention 4chan and directing individuals from 4chan to harass me. This coming from User:RocketKnightX who, during the edit warring, canvassed other editors to report another editor [75][76]. Given the user's edit warring at 15.ai [77][78][79][80][81] and their continuing edit warring [82] [83] I suggest at least a temporary TBAN for User:RocketKnightX.

Likewise, as per above, I also propose WP:BOOMERANG on User:HackerKnownAs, and would request the defamatory edit history of [84] be expunged for WP:NPA. User:HackerKnownAs continues to ignore TalkPage consensus [85][86]. Looking at their edit information, they rarely engage in talkpages and have extensively edited 4chan and 15.ai in particular, which I feel qualifies them as a WP:SPA [87] defined in WP:SPA as A single-purpose account (SPA) is a user account or IP editor whose editing is limited to one very narrow area or set of articles, or whose edits to many articles appear to be for a common purpose and that single purpose accounts and editors who hold a strong personal viewpoint on a particular topic covered within Wikipedia are expected to contribute neutrally instead of following their own agenda and, in particular, should take care to avoid creating the impression that their focus on one topic is non-neutral, which could strongly suggest that their editing is not compatible with the goals of this project. Their statements about 15.ai show a strong personal opinion about 15.ai to the point of accusing a nomination at AfD as being badfaith [88] and stating themself that was extremely crucial in the development of TTS voice generation[89]. However, despite a few editors making this claim, no substantial reliable source has ever been provided to support this claim. Furthermore, User:HackerKnownAs has made numerous wide-sweeping reversions in the name of fighting vandalism that indiscriminately remove constructive edits to return to the article to a state they personally approve of [90][91][92].

They also misrepresented the sources[93] that they added to the reception section in what amounts to editorlization. As noted above, neither of the articles cited actually refer to 15.ai itself as fascinating. The user also shows WP:OWNERBEHAVIOR in their constant reversion to their preferred version and their refusal to participate in consensus building [94] or Dispute Resolution despite being invited to participate after their reversions [95]. As you can see here [96] they have not participated in any meaningful discussion on 15.ai's talkpage since 2022. During the AfD for the article, HackerKnownAs WP:CANVASSED User:SirGallantThe4th, and SirGallant alone, to the AfD [97] at the time this occurred, the AfD was leaning toward Delete. Afterward, the SPA's I noted above also arrive and vote Keep. I do not know what manner of sanction would be appropriate, but I do feel that edit summary should be expunged if possible.

I also would like to propose that User:Rin6626 is blatantly WP:NOTHERE, as all they have done is make baseless accusations [98][99][100] since creating their account. Brocade River Poems (She/They) 14:06, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

User blocked. Collapsing personal attacks. Isabelle Belato 🏳‍🌈 01:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

brocade youre literally a mod in a trans discord server where you ask for people to come help you “wipe these pony sh*theads off wiki and tell random people to agree with you to help you i wish i had more screenshots on me before i left that server but youre mistaken if youre gonna get away with this to the admins of this place brocade is known for gaslighting people on discord, theres a reason they are a new user but seems to know everything about wikipedia rules (theyre not new and its not one user doing it) Rin6626 (talk) 14:22, 16 November 2024 (UTC) brocade youre literally a mod in a trans discord server where you ask for people to come help you “wipe these pony sh*theads off wiki and tell random people to agree with you to help you I can assure you this is completely untrue. theres a reason they are a new user but seems to know everything about wikipedia rules (theyre not new and its not one user doing it) The amount of times I've been reprimanded sorta runs afoul this theory that I know everything about the Wikipedia rules, does it not? Brocade River Poems (She/They) 14:31, 16 November 2024 (UTC) Just as an aside, I've blocked Rin6626 as WP:NOTHERE. The allegations above, mixed with the fact that this is a brand new account, tells me at best they are here to stir up trouble, and at worst this is a sock. RickinBaltimore (talk) 14:37, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

So is no one going to address the suspicious circumstances surrounding User:BrocadeRiverPoems and X0n10ox (now [101])? They admit to sharing the same IP address and display identical editing patterns as documented in [102], with the questionable explanation of being "roommates" during the Yasuke-Wikipedia controversy just four months ago.

Consider the sequence of events:

1. X0n10ox makes multiple Yasuke-related edits
2. They delete their account claiming "their username was posted on 4chan"
3. Days later, BrocadeRiverPoems appears, makes minimal edits to bypass semi-protection
4. BrocadeRiverPoems then advocates the identical position as their supposed roommate, exhibiting the same confrontational attitude that other editors have noted concerns about

This pattern should raise serious WP:SOCK concerns. The coincidences are difficult to ignore:

• Same IP address
• Similar editing style
• Same topic focus
• Similar behavioral patterns
• Suspicious timing

What's particularly ironic is that this user has a history of challenging other editors based on suspicious editing patterns. I anticipate they or their cronies will attempt to dismiss this analysis based on the fact that I'm posting as an IP editor.

Furthermore, we're now seeing IP editors consistently defending BrocadeRiverPoems across multiple discussions. The first reply to this thread is a perfect example. These patterns warrant closer examination. 12.188.169.2 (talk) 19:13, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

If the supposed alternate account never edits it does not matter. Per WP:CLEANSTART this is allowed. Traumnovelle (talk) 19:25, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

The issue isn't about WP:CLEANSTART itself -- it's about the pattern of behavior continuing unchanged. While users are allowed fresh starts, the concerning aspect here is that the same confrontational editing style and topic focus immediately resumed under the new account. WP:CLEANSTART is suppose dto give editors a chance to start fresh with better practices, not to simply continue problematic and alienating behavior under a different name. To quote,

• "The old account must be clearly discontinued and the new account must avoid editing patterns or behaviors that would allow other users to recognize and identify the account. It is expected that the new account will be a true "fresh start", will edit in new areas, will avoid old disputes, and will follow community norms of behavior."

We should also note that this isn't just about past behavior - we're seeing active patterns with the IP editors consistently appearing to defend BrocadeRiverPoems's positions. This suggests the account may not be operating independently, which goes beyond the scope of a clean start. 12.188.169.2 (talk) 19:37, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Just look at this diff [103] (out of many, many of them -- I just chose one at random) where he berates an editor for not responding within a week, stating "Those who are opposed to its inclusion, and those that believe it should be a minority view, have had ample time in the past week to furnish any reliable source that would substantiate their claims." This shows a problematic assumption that Wikipedia editors should be constantly available and able to respond within an arbitrary timeframe. It fails to acknowledge that editors are volunteers who have lives outside Wikipedia and may not be able to participate in discussions on someone else's schedule. This is blatant WP:BATTLEGROUNDING and a continuation of the past problematic behavior. 12.188.169.2 (talk) 19:53, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

If you post the evidence here or at an WP:SPI, instead of in an external website, maybe a response will come faster. – 2804:F1...C6:3070 (::/32) (talk) 20:49, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Oh, anyone with a brain see that the roommate excuse is BS. Question is will the admins do something about it or let it happen and let them go round bullying more people because he is a special group. 198.136.190.5 (talk) 22:25, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

A lot of "please block me" going on in this thread. --JBL (talk) 22:42, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

So, CLEANSTART does not apply here for two reasons: One is that X0n10ox appears to have vanished. Vanishing is a deal you make where you are promising that you are going away, permanently, and your account is renamed to something gibberishy.

The other is that if the new account displays the same behaviors of the old account, it is not a clean start.

I would also add, following along from comments way up the thread, that putting a link to WPO in an edit sumarry to "prove" someone is a sock and therefore justify a revert is way, way out of line. That's absolutely not valid proof of anything, and if you are going to accuse someone of socking, gather your actual evidence and file an WP:SPI. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 00:04, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I feel like I shouldn't have to point out that deliberately misgendering me and saying I'm part of a "special group" is pretty incivil per WP:EDPRONOUNS which notes ARBCOM here[104]. Brocade River Poems (She/They) 02:55, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

This is hopefully the last time I have to post about this. The entire argument that I'm a sock hinges on the fact that I disclosed I had a roommate as suggested by WP:ROOMMATE which says Editors in this position are advised to declare such connections on their user pages to avoid accusations of sockpuppetry., the same page reads When editing the same articles, participating in the same community discussion, or supporting each other in any sort of dispute, closely related accounts should disclose the connection and observe relevant policies such as edit warring as if they were a single account. If they do not wish to disclose the connection, they should avoid editing in the same areas, particularly on controversial topics..

Roommate Note

I did not participate on Talk Yasuke while my roommate was still active on Wikipedia. My roommate was also quite vociferously in support of a particular position [105] [106].

My first involvement in Yasuke as an IP Address was in relation to sources and interested me because of a mention of the Tang Dynasty [107][108], as my edit history shows, I have a wide interest in Ancient Chinese history. Compared to my roommate's rather vocal support to Yasuke being definitively declared as a Samurai, my own activity has been more moderate [109] and I created an RFC that quite literally supported the opposite position of my roommate [110][111]. Again, notably, at the ARBCOM case there were no sanctions or findings of fact relating to me. However, the evidence that was submitted about my participation shows that my editing differed from that of my roommate[112]

Complaint Origin

The user who created the original attack page accusing me of being a bully and a sockpuppet of my roommate had their talkpage comments removed by another editor [113] for NOTFORUM. As the user had already been warned [114] I had posted [115] another warning because I felt that they at least deserved to receive a warning notification since their talkpage activity had been deleted.

The editor in question proceeded to claim I was ganging up on them with Symphony and Gitz[116] and then created an entire narrative about all three of us that was later G10'd. Said user, after being blocked, started posting on 4chan directing people to harass me with one post reading On their own userpage they admit they have the SAME IP as "X0n10ox". It's obviously the SAME person who has created a new account to hide their past history. Outside of that, I was mentioned semi-favorably [117] where my editing at Yasuke was described Though we have disagreed strongly at times, their contributions to this topic, while occasionally verbose, have been cogent and constructive, which does not seem to align with the narrative that I am bullying people off Yasuke and heavily patrolling it. Accusations, again, which the ARBCOM did not see necessary to address. In my last trip to ANI, it was under the accusation that I was an anti-Yasuke sockpuppet master [118] which was ultimately closed by the complaining party after a handful of people opposed their proposal.

Re:Sock Activity

So my question is if I am a sockpuppet of my former roommate, what, exatly, of the criteria of being a sock have I met outside of disclosing that we shared an IP Address for a time? My roommate wasn't blocked or subject to any sanction, my participation in Yasuke came after he departed Wikipedia, and his stance was firmly "Yasuke was unambiguously a Samurai" while I have expressed reasonable doubt based on available sources and was brought to ANI for essentially having the opposite stance? The sole basis of the accusations on the attack page and on the subsequent WPO thread is the fact that I did what WP:ROOMMATE told me to do to avoid accusations of sockpuppetry. Since doing that, it has done nothing but result in said accusations. The entire farce of a complaint that was deleted was petty retaliation because I had posted a warning on a user's talkpage for WP:NOTFORUM as the user in question had posted a bunch of stuff about Symphony Regalia on Talk Yasuke that Gitz removed. The "bullying" which they refer to is the fact that Gitz removed the offending content, and that I felt it was only appropriate that the user in question should be notified of what they'd done wrong.

Timeline

As for the accusation I appeared "days later", my roommate departed [119], I created my account over a full month later on 27 July 2024[120], I first posted in Yasuke on 19 June 2024. I created the account because Talk Yasuke was rightly locked to IP Editors, and I was trying to relay information about the historical usage of sayamaki [121] as users were making incorrect statements about what a sayamaki could mean. I also find the characterization that I makes minimal edits to bypass semi-protection to be confusing, because I was using the suggested edits dashboard to take me to pages which I did my best to improve based on what the dashboard told me they needed, which in most cases were sources [122][123] [124][125][126][127][128]. This is activity which did not abruptly stop when I began participating in Yasuke, either [129][130][131][132][133][134][135][136][137][138][139][140] As you can see from many of those diffs, I was directed to articles as part of newcomer tasks, and if you look at my history, my usage of that suggested editing persists long after I was allowed to participate in Talk Yasuke myself.

Ongoing Harassment

These continually baseless accusations which are unfortunately part of a harassment campaign. Per the ARBCOM's Finding of Facts [141] Participants in the dispute have been subject to harassment, both on and off of Wikipedia. (BrocadeRiverPoems evidence, Symphony Regalia evidence) Passed 10 to 0 at 22:48, 13 November 2024 (UTC). The very WPO thread that is being used to lodge this complaint is a thread I submitted as evidence to ARBCOM[142]. It is worth repeating, again, that ARBCOM did not sanction me despite having access to the WPO accusations. Brocade River Poems (She/They) 01:47, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

This is a very minor point but I just read through much of this dispute and I have a question: What on Earth is the "Pony Preservation Project" and what does this group have to do with Wikipedia and our article about artificial intelligence? Thanks for humoring me, it's my reward for reading all of this. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:03, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Also, and this is advice to any editor, do not post 12-15 diffs when you can make the same point with 2 to 3 diffs. No one who is reviewing this is going to look at all of those diffs, that is just excessive. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:06, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Apologies for over-supplying diffs, I just wanted to substantiate that the activity they were calling unusual was activity I long continued even after I had access to Yasuke. As for the "Pony Preservation Project" and what it has to do with Wikipedia and an article on Wikipeida, it appears to be a group of MLP Fans originating on 4chan /mlp/ board who supported 15.ai's development. I only know about them because I was reviewing the sources used on 15.ai and one of the sources directed me to a "desuchan" archive of the "Pony Preservation Project" on 4chan where they were actively dicussing editing the article, with one anonymous user asking another user to fabricate sources, even. The thanks section of 15.ai's archived website reads The importance of /mlp/ throughout the development of this project cannot be overstated – once again, I thank each and every one of you anonymous contributors.[143]. Considering their involvement with the development of 15.ai, and the fact that they were actively discussing in the source archive making changes to the article, I felt it prudent to flag the article for potential WP:COI. Brocade River Poems (She/They) 03:18, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

BrocadeRiverPoems, thank you so much for rearranging your responses in this complaint. They are much more readable and are more likely to be read by other editors or admins. Thanks for the explanation of PPP. I was lost there among the conspiracy theories. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:50, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Not a problem! Sorry again for the massive posts. I am trying to get better about that. Brocade River Poems (She/They) 22:49, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

** Are there any outstanding issues that need to be resolved before this complaint is closed? Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:11, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

@Liz: the OP has been CU blocked. M.Bitton (talk) 23:17, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I realize this, M.Bitton. But when the checkuser, Ivanvector, was asked to close this complaint (see below), he said that there still might be outstanding issues to resolve so that is what prompted me to ask if there were any. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:39, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

The only outstanding issue is the original issue that caused this drama, the edit warring, which I shall repost in brevity here for the sake of ease.

I want to also include in this discussion as this post by User:RocketKnightX has occurred after I posted my initial statement [144]. User:RocketKnightX during the edit warring, canvassed other editors to report another editor [145][146]. Given the user's persistent edit warring at 15.ai [147][148][149][150][151] and their continuing edit warring [152] [153] and refusal to participate in dispute resolution on talk-pager discussion in a meaningful manner[154][155][156], I propose at least a temporary TBAN for User:RocketKnightX. Brocade River Poems (She/They) 23:18, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

It'll probably be helpful (for me at least) if you add a separate section with the TBAN proposal. MiasmaEternal☎ 01:44, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Okay, will do. Brocade River Poems (She/They) 01:47, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

The Underlying Content Dispute

Like many conduct disputes in Wikipedia, this started as a content dispute. The content dispute was over 15.ai, in particular as to what the infobox should say the status of the web site was. A request for mediation was filed at DRN. The filing editor was blocked indefinitely for conduct unrelated to the 15.ai dispute, but there were multiple editors who agreed to the ground rules, so I began moderated discussion. User:RocketKnightX was one of the editors who was invited to take part. They made a brief statement but did not take part in the following discussion. That discussion resulted in agreement to revise the article to state, in the infobox, that the web site was abandoned. They then revised the article as agreed, but RocketKnightX reverted with a brief statement. I asked them if they wanted to take part in moderated discussion, but they did not answer. At this point the other editors and I agreed that an RFC was the next step. The RFC is currently in progress, at Talk:15.ai#RFC_on_Status_of_Web_Site. The DRN discussion is archived at Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_250#15.ai.

That was the 15.ai content dispute. User:HackerKnownAs also refers to the Yasuke dispute. Although User:BrocadeRiverPoems was named as a party in the Yasuke dispute, there was no finding of fact against her. HackerKnownAs could have entered evidence, and did not. The handwave by HackerKnownAs against Brocade is unsubstantiated.

The 15.ai content dispute appears to have been forgotten, or overtaken by personal attacks. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:27, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for supplying this summary, Robert McClenon. Reading over the entire process, it seems like the dispute was resolved among participating editors on problematic wording but when it was implemented, the content change was reverted by editors who had not taken part in the DRN process. Hence the RFC that is going on. I hope you don't see your efforts as wasted as it does seem like a lot of ground was covered over the course of the DRN discussion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 09:54, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

You're welcome, User:Liz. I consider a DRN to have been productive if it results in an RFC. In that case, the DRN provides the discussion before the RFC. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:24, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

This thread was a troll operation, and the trolls have been turned to stone by the light of a type G main sequence star and a special mirror that looks under bridges and in caves. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:24, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

The troll who started this thread has been put to bed - why not do the same with their mess by closing it? Gitz (talk) (contribs) 18:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Sanctioning HackerKnownAs

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

I suggest that for constantly reverting against consensus, HackerKnownAs is indefinitely page blocked from 15.ai. 2400:79E0:8040:78D9:1808:A4BB:1E8:1F62 (talk) 03:52, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Interesting, an IP in your ::/42 range blanked User:Ltbdl/sandbox a while after Ltbdl was blocked following violations of topic bans... Ltbdl was involved in some things related to 15.ai. Now, far be it for me to acuse someone of being a block evader (without evidence), but the only obvious related edit that I see of your range as an IP edit is a single 15.ai talk page edit (diff) and seemingly no other participation.

It just makes me wonder who you are, how you found yourself here, why you decided to propose a sanction against another user who you've apparently not interacted with. – 2804:F1...C6:3070 (::/32) (talk) 04:24, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Thats weird, but I can assure you that I am not Ltbdl. Im the 180 guy. 2400:79E0:8041:59B8:1808:A7C3:DF68:6EE0 (talk) 04:43, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, Admins please ban HackerKnownAs! Its so obvious his edits are only to make trouble. Andthewinnerisme (talk) 04:31, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

How on Earth do you think that the recommendations of accounts with 1 or 2 edits are going to lead to the block of an editor? You have no demonstratible experience editing this project. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:14, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

 Checkuser note: The following accounts are  Confirmed to each other:

• HackerKnownAs (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
• SirGallantThe4th (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
• Rin6626 (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
• Andthewinnerisme (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)

Since Rin6626 is already blocked, and all of the accounts have commented in this thread, all will be blocked indef per WP:BE, WP:GHBH, and WP:PROJSOCK. I'll create an SPI shortly. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 13:56, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Hey @Ivanvector, can you also close this thread? I think we are done here. 🔥YesI'mOnFire🔥^{(ContainThisEmber?)} 14:55, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't think I should - there have been concerns raised in good faith by and about editors who aren't part of this sock ring, and I'm not really familiar with what's been going on here. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 15:03, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed TBAN of RocketKnightX

User:RocketKnightX has continued to engage in an edit war at 15.ai despite having been warned for it in the past [157]. User:RocketKnightX during the edit warring, canvassed other editors to report another editor [158][159]. Given the user's persistent edit warring at 15.ai [160][161][162] and their continued slow-edit warring [163] [164] and refusal to participate in dispute resolution or talk-page discussion in a meaningful manner[165][166][167] and noting that the user seems to have competency and maturity issues as demonstrated here [168][169] I propose at least a temporary TBAN for User:RocketKnightX from editing at 15.ai, if not an indefinite one. --Brocade River Poems (She/They) 01:57, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Support indefinite topic ban. I doubt that they wont cause issues on 15.ai if left unblocked. 2400:79E0:8070:6AE:1808:F1BB:1DB:E998 (talk) 03:19, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Alright, I will stop. Happy now? RocketKnightX (talk) 05:35, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

While I do not think it is up to me, if you say you're going to stop edit warring, that's good enough for me. Brocade River Poems (She/They) 12:37, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Croystron failure to communicate

Hello. Croystron, who has over 4,000 edits, again refuses to respond to his latest talk page entry here. I have also pinged Croystron on his talk page on the entry, and now ping the editor, again, here: Croystron, plus putting the ANI-notice on his talk page. He was previously blocked for two weeks for the failure to communicate with no apparent effect as the editor, again, refuses to communicate. Perhaps a longer block is necessary to provide a significant downside for Croyston's repeated and persistent failure to communicate. Thanks, Quaerens-veritatem (talk) 08:47, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't know whether or not he "refuses to respond" which is implying you know his motivation. They may not know that they have a talk page, we don't know. But the fact is that they have never made a single post to a Talk page, User talk page or noticeboard. So, I don't think we can expect them to respond here. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 08:56, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Well Liz, I would think Croystron would notice the prominent talk page alerts on the top of each page when editing, specially since besides a talk page entry showing up, Croystron was separately pinged. Also, I would think his previous two week block would cause Croystron to wonder why. Is it your view that failure to check a talk page after multiple alerts on the top every page when editing relieves an editor of a need to communicate? It seems to me the editor should be required to communicate and, specially since Croystron has over 4,000 edits, ignorance is not an excuse. Also, not previously discussed is the basis for communication, that Croystron is violating Wikipedia's editing policy and consensus policy by not providing edit summaries. Regardless, a significant block of a month should serve Croystron well, either alerting that communication cannot be ignored, or alerting to start attending to the talk page. Otherwise, how do you suggest a 4,000 edit editor be further alerted to respond to an editing policy violation? Quaerens-veritatem (talk) 09:28, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Is there a problem with the editing besides not providing edit summaries? Is there a way of forcing edit summary use in mainspace? I note they have edited draft talk once, but I think that might have been an automated edit. Espresso Addict (talk) 16:17, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

What is the "editing policy violation" that Croystron is guilty of? I see that since 1 October Croystron (talk · contribs) has been pretty good about adding edit summaries. Not perfect but they are making an attempt which makes this comment a little out of place. Plus they haven't edited since 12 November so they may not have even seen any of the recent notices. CambridgeBayWeather (solidly non-human), Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 16:33, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

• P-block from article space to try to get this editor's attention. This editor was blocked previously for MOS violations + refusal to explain. People have asked them to use edit summaries multiple times, and they've never bothered to respond. Not providing edit summaries wastes other editors' time, even when edits are clearly good. When someone won't respond to queries at their talk, I think a block is completely reasonable to try to get their attention. Valereee (talk) 19:59, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  Since 1 October they have made 143 edits. Of these 25 are listed as "No edit summary". And so because of that they are now partially blocked. I think that's a bit of an overreaction. They complied with the request to add summaries and still got partially blocked. CambridgeBayWeather (solidly non-human), Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 20:46, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  This seems like an overreaction, especially considering what CambridgeBayWeather noted above about their edit summary usage. I am still unclear about what the actual policy violation is supposed to be here. ThadeusOfNazereth(he/him)^{Talk to Me!} 20:52, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  I'd forgotten about Analysis of edit summary usage. They have made 337 edits since September and 203 (60%) with summaries a huge improvement over their first year, but it could be better. CambridgeBayWeather (solidly non-human), Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 21:23, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  I would note that when they were previously blocked, the blocking admin said Please understand that, due to the collaborative nature of Wikipedia, you're required to communicate when requested. You're welcome to resume editing after the block expires, but I do wish you'd be more cooperative with those editors with legitimate concerns if you'd continue to be here.. So saying edit sumarries are the only issue seems to ignore this. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 00:11, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

  But that's what this seems to be about. From Valereee "This editor was blocked previously for MOS violations + refusal to explain. People have asked them to use edit summaries multiple times, and they've never bothered to respond. Not providing edit summaries wastes other editors' time, even when edits are clearly good. When someone won't respond to queries at their talk".

  The last time communication was mentioned was User talk:Croystron#November 2024 Why won't you provide edit summaries? on 12 November (the last day that Croystron edited and being P-blocked three days later does not look good), and that wasn't so much about communicating but about edit summaries, something that they have been doing for a while. There is currently three comments about communicating on Croystron's talk page. Two from Quaerens-veritatem about edit summaries! One from Valereee when she P-blocked them.

  So really until now nobody has explained what is meant by communication on Wikipedia. Taking Wikipedia:Assume good faith at face value they may well think that the only problem was the edit summaries and that is an acceptable means of communication. CambridgeBayWeather (solidly non-human), Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 00:52, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

  Don't know why this ping never came through, but it didn't. Valereee (talk) 00:59, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Bad block: The only issue identified here is that Croystron hasn't responded to a four-day-old post on their talk page about how they were not using edit summaries when, in fact, they were using edit summaries. Croystron also hasn't edited for four days at this point, so I'm not seeing why a P-block from mainspace is currently necessary. Blocks are preventative, and there's been no evidence presented here that Croystron has been making any kind of disruptive edits. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:49, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

  If you think we should unblock, it's fine. For me a p-block from article space for someone who has basically never found talk space is helpful to getting them to realize there is such a thing, but I'm open to objection to that. Valereee (talk) 00:56, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

  If there was something that needed urgent discussing with this editor, I would agree that a P-block would be appropriate here. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:59, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

  Like I said, if you think we should unblock, it's fine. I think a p-block from article space when someone has been editing for over a year, has never used a talk page, and hasn't responded to multiple concerns expressed on their talk is appropriate. I tagged the block as anyone should feel free to unblock, with or without a properly formatted unblock request. I'm not trying to be a hardass, here. I'm just trying to get an editor's attention to the fact other editors are trying to communicate with them. Valereee (talk) 01:02, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

  Given that they started using edit summaries three months ago I'm sure that they know of the existence of talk pages. CambridgeBayWeather (solidly non-human), Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 01:04, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

  Good block: The block would be for failure to communicate, including not just for absence of talk page replies and non-response to ANI-notices, but also no response to multiple pings. The editor was blocked before for failure to respond. Block may now gain the editor's attention to start communicating. Quaerens-veritatem (talk) 01:03, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

  Quaerens-veritatem, considering the editor hasn't edited for 4 days, I don't think they can be charged with "non-response to ANI-notices". You just posted this complaint today. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:39, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

  Well Liz, the editor did not respond to an ANI-notice provided before the first block way back on 22 September 2024, or talk page entries, or several pings. The editor continued not to respond. Again, how do you suggest an over one year editor with 4,000 edits be otherwise alerted to respond to a failure to respond violation (which has continued from way before 22 September 2024)? Quaerens-veritatem (talk) 04:46, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

  Quaerens-veritatem, I think you have done everything possible to inform this editor of existing problems, you have done your due diligence. But you can't control how other editors will or will not respond. There are editors who read each new message that gets posted to their User talk page and others who ignore their talk page beause they want to focus on article editing and not chatting with other editors. Then we have mobile editors who aren't even aware that they have a User talk page. We have to find ways to communicate with all types of editors including IP editors who don't have a stable User talk page and jump around to different IPs. You can only do your best which I think you have done. All I was asking in my original message is to Assume Good Faith and don't interpret a lack of immediate response as a sign of rejection or intentional avoidance. It could just be their temperament and editing patterns and have nothing to do with the message you posted. But, of course, if the editor came to participate here, we could learn more about their reasons. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:11, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Given that there's clearly a difference of opinion on how to handle this, I've taken a step back by unblocking and instead requesting the user communicate before editing again. Valereee (talk) 14:34, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  They commented. CambridgeBayWeather (solidly non-human), Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 19:50, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  Wow, that is unexpected. A first. Now, if we can get them to come here. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:28, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

I was given an ultimatum for expired awareness notifications

This is about developments at User talk:Hotpine. Hotpine has given me an ultimatum for retracting awareness notifications which have expired for almost two years.

[170], [171], and [172]. tgeorgescu (talk) 18:24, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

@Hotpine: you edited in area of Wikipedia that are under discretionary sanctions imposed by the Arbitration Committee. tgeorgescu posted a standard contentious topic alert, which does not imply that your edits were improper. It appears that you take issue with the fact that the standard alert makes reference to the arbitration case that imposed those sanctions. I'm not sure why you take issue with that, but there's nothing improper about it. voorts (talk/contributions) 18:36, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Okay, now that I got the point that such notifications do not expire, I have to say why I told them they're editing under WP:GENSEX discretionary sanctions: sex addiction therapy and porn addiction therapy have become a way of performing conversion therapy without calling it so. This is especially relevant since conversion therapy has been banned in several states. I don't know any WP:MEDRS to that extent, but it is a point which reputable experts made in mainstream media. tgeorgescu (talk) 02:11, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

The above made me curious about WP:MEDRS to that extent and I found this: Neves, Silva (2023). "Chapter 11. MSM and compulsive sexual behaviours. "Sex addiction" and conversion practices". In Neves, Silva; Davies, Dominic (eds.). Erotically Queer: A Pink Therapy Guide for Practitioners. Taylor & Francis. p. unpaginated. doi:10.4324/9781003260608-12. ISBN 978-1-000-86221-8. Retrieved 17 November 2024. tgeorgescu (talk) 02:21, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

What I don't understand is that these notices were posted on their user talk page almost 3 years ago and the editor has edited since 2021. Why are they complaining about them now? I hope they will find their way here and offer an explanation. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:33, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Now in the article Sexual addiction the link between sexual addiction therapy and conversion therapy is abundantly sourced. tgeorgescu (talk) 03:18, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

@ScottishFinnishRadish: Those templates say "discretionary sanctions" not CTOPs. So, I don't know if they're expired. tgeorgescu (talk) 04:41, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I think I was clear about what I expected:

• Proof that pages were categorized as such in a public proceeding
• Proof that I edited those pages
• Proof that those edits of those pages warrants the action(s) taken

If such proof does not exist, then I expect Tgeorgescu to undo his notices on my talk page and whatever flags/sanctions/changes that were applied to my account.

I still have no idea what this is about, the pages, the edits, the policies, etc., after pointedly asking Tgeorgescu several times for clarification. I'm still not entirely clear on whether something was done to my account to make it harder to edit those pages or other pages. It seemed like my account had been flagged in some way. Regardless, I didn't opt into any such notices on my talk page, which add noise, and the appearance of such notices has the appearance of wrongdoing, which I object to when there is no justification. Reverting the edits myself does not appear the same in the edit history as the author reverting them.

The clock is still ticking. Hotpine (talk) 23:57, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

@Hotpine: Your inability to notice that you have landed in hot water is telling of WP:CIR.

For a newbie with no explanations, that isn't that bad. For a newbie, after it got duly explained, it is bad. tgeorgescu (talk) 00:10, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@tgeorgescu Literally the third sentence in Wikipedia:CIR is:

One of our core Wikipedia guidelines that facilitates this is assume good faith

My first response to you was:

Tgeorgescu: I don't understand your edits. You linked to e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Pseudoscience, but my username isn't mentioned there, and I don't see reference to any other place in your edits where the determination was made that I have "shown interest" in "alternative medicine", "pseudoscience", or "gender-related disputes or controversies". Please clarify your position with objective evidence and public proceedings, or undo your edits.

It isn't clear why you posted the "Yes. We are biased." section. Please clarify this, or undo your edits.

It isn't clear why you posted the "Noticeboard" section. Please clarify this, or undo your edits.

So far, your behavior has been abrasive and unwelcome. After this matter is resolved, please do not interact with me to the furthest extent possible.

I assumed that you had your reasons for doing what you did, and I asked you to explain yourself. I've asked you several times to explain yourself now. All you have to do is explain your reasoning for why you think I've edited pages that are under those discretionary sanctions, which you should have had before posting the notices in the first place. That's all. And you can't even do that, or at least haven't done so up to this point. I need that information to know which pages I have edited (and might edit in the future) that fall under those sanctions, which is ostensibly the entire point of the notices. Your silence on this matter suggests to me that you had no such reasoning in the first place.

Indeed, competence is required. Hotpine (talk) 01:01, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@Hotpine: The page was named above: Sexual addiction. tgeorgescu (talk) 01:10, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

We are assuming good faith: the point of that essay is that competence is also required to be a successful editor—unfortunately, we can only go by experience in judging competence.

You have been told repeatedly that these notifications are perfunctory do not presume any wrongdoing—they say that themselves. That you still do not seem to understand this point does bring your competence into question, I'm afraid.

Frankly, you are not entitled to further meticulous explanations for such benign interactions, and your reaction so far has been fairly disruptive, making an issue out of literally nothing. Remsense ‥ 论 01:11, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't know how we can get much clearer than, "this message does not imply that there are any issues with your editing", but many editors seem to miss that. Phil Bridger (talk) 09:59, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

We need to bring back the marquee tag. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 17:43, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

That sentence isn't true and everyone knows it, that's why. Levivich (talk) 19:52, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, probably more than 90% of the time it's given, the contentious topics warning actually means "I do think there's a problem with your editing so I'm making sure I can take you to AE if you step out of line again". More generally, I think WP:HNST is broadly correct about how inexperienced editors interpret all templates Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 17:59, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Even so, the message does what it says on the tin, one isn't justified in assuming someone thinks they're doing something wrong simply because they've received one. It is simply not unreasonable to expect newcomers to be able to take direct statements like these at face value. Remsense ‥ 论 01:15, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Self-talk page vandalism?

I haven't encountered an instance of anyone vandalizing their own talk page before (without having been blocked with TPA), but 216.138.20.167 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) has achieved that dubious honor. I frankly do not know if this kind of activity is prohibited, which is why I haven't issued any warnings as yet. JJP_Master (she/they) 00:29, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Blocked for disruptive editing and TPA revoked. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:34, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

@Voorts: Thank you. In the future, can this kind of thing just be reported to AIV instead? JJP_Master (she/they) 00:47, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I think this fits within the definition of vandalism. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:50, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I think Zlillyann might be this IP's registered account so keep an eye on them. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:16, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I thought the same; their userpage was already on my watchlist. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:18, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Repeated WP:PA Violations by IP 47.69.66.57 (and prior IP addresses)

The IP (and previous IP addresses operated by the same individual) has made repeated personal attacks targetting me.

They have alleged that I am not... mentally sound: "fake news by incapacity or intent or what?" [1]

They claimed that a B-Class article I edit often, SpaceX Super Heavy, is my "favorite playground" [2][3]

Multiple claims of attempting to mislead others: "And you still either don't understand or try to mislead" [4]

"Once more a certain editor wants to spam each and every space article with superfluous and redundant starship pseudofacts" [5]

"Once more, Redacted II makes "original research" and exaggerates vague facts to factuals" [6]

"neclected and more or less to a single editor who had put in original reseach and exaggerations while blocking others" [7]

They accuse everyone they disagree with of WP:OR, despite the disputed content often being well sourced. And anyone who confronts them is a WP:PA violator: [6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14]

IMO, it is clear that they are not here to improve Wikipedia, and edits only to harrass more experienced editors.

I reported their behaviour before, but no action was taken.[15] Redacted II (talk) 14:21, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

A link to the archive of the previous report (with the responses): link. – 2804:F1...A2:6879 (::/32) (talk) 18:27, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Hopping in here as I've also seen this person repeatedly hounding Redacted II in several discussions. It's clear this user is not interested in constructive editing. Ergzay (talk) 02:18, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

They have continued, now as IP 47.69.68.17, and are now trying to, and I quote: "form a coalition" [16]

They aren't here to improve the encyclopedia. They're here to troll. Redacted II (talk) 18:01, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Legal threats

User:TomW1212 making legal threats after being warned on their talk page - see diff. CoconutOctopus talk 17:35, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Now blocked for vandalism indefinitely so probably safe to close this! CoconutOctopus talk 18:05, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I have revoked this person's talk page access. It is crystal clear that their intent is malicious. Cullen328 (talk) 19:47, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

They clearly have no actual connection to the person in question, and their edits are blatantly deliberately trolling and disruptive. Canterbury Tail talk 16:26, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

SheriffIsInTown POV pushing editing pattern

SheriffIsInTown has been consistently POV pushing against Imran Khan and the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI), figures in Pakistan’s political crisis. I reported them on this noticeboard recently, and I hoped that the issue would be resolved after my report, but I am reporting them again as their WP:CPUSH behavior has made it difficult to discuss and work with them on contentious topics since the report. My main concern is the POV pushing.

POV pushing on Imran Khan BLP
On the Imran Khan BLP, Sheriff has added almost exclusively negative criticism about Khan, including citing an opinion piece instead of reliable inline citations and following a one-sided narrative. In this discussion, they argued that one sexual harassment allegation should have an independent section, followed by accusing both me and the user who added the section (WikiEnthusiast1001) of POV pushing in favor of PTI because we advocated for a merge into another section to fit the article's structure.

Following a somewhat resolution to the dispute, they added a large section about Khan's comments on rape and allegations of misogyny/victim-blaming but was entirely one-sided, failing to mention other viewpoints or any context, essentially only covering the negatives which forced me and another user to step in and add context [173] [174]. Even worse, Sheriff already knows that Khan's comments on rape were contested as out of context, as they edited on a page talking about the allegations but did not add the other viewpoint.

Previously, they put false information on Imran Khan’s BLP article that was not supported by any of the 3 citations they gave and citation bombed to make it seem like a proper piece of information. I asked them twice on why they did this in the talk page, but they only responded when Saqib intervened in this discussion.

Even more concerning, they cited an opinion piece for 2 paragraphs of information on Imran Khan’s page without even mentioning it was an opinion piece. They also used that one opinion piece as a citation for two paragraphs about contentious information on an already contentious protected BLP, without inline citations or even a mention of the opinion piece or its authors, The Guardian and Catherine Bennet, which was discussed here. In response to the lengthy negative opinion piece Sheriff added, I decided to balance it with a short paragraph summarizing three positive opinion pieces [175]. However, instead of allowing for balance, Sheriff selectively extracted negative points from these generally positive pieces and showed further compulsion to add only negative content. [176] Sheriff has also added imbalanced criticism of Imran Khan's time in office, which other users including me have had to correct. Khan is a controversial figure in Pakistani politics and his BLP is a high-priority and a GA nomination which is why these editing patterns are even more concerning. Sheriff argues that I have added 'promotional content' and they are balancing that, but as seen, most of these changes on the Imran Khan BLP occur without me even adding any content and are unprovoked.

Talk Page Behavior
Discussions with them often result in WP:IDHT by them. Past aggressive remarks: [177] and [178]. They have accused me of bad faith and portraying Imran Khan as suffering because I used the word 'Campaigning', exhibiting IDHT in the discussion. Additionally, talk page discussions give an insight into Sheriff's POV as there are instances where Sheriff's comments on talk pages have veered into personal opinions. They stated that There was a legal issue about this because PTI failed to conduct intra-party elections properly. When you don’t follow the law, there are consequences. [179], which the "consequences" remark inserts their political opinion regarding PTI into a talk page. In this comment Claiming it was a false flag operation is a serious accusation. Simply stating that it wasn’t isn’t sufficient; it requires an explanation of why it wasn’t a false flag. [180], Sheriff challenges PTI's claim of a "false flag operation," which seems to stray into political bias, as it focuses on discrediting a political claim rather than representing the information in a factual manner. Additionally, another user pointed out that even after this report, Sheriff left remarks on an edit summary in the Imran Khan BLP [181]. The remark "One happy family, add a relevant photo of good time." is a further POV statement against Khan and is an insight into why they only added imbalanced negative opinion pieces onto the Imran Khan BLP.

Edit Warring on Election Pages and 3RR
A major example of this behavior is that they reverted three times [182] [183] [184] on 2024 Pakistani general election, out of which 2 reverts were done within 24 hours, when already being told not to by multiple editors in this discussion, I decided to initiate a civil discussion first to avoid an edit war with Sheriff, though they still continued edit warring, continuing to rapidly reduce the PTI's seats despite no consensus. Though this was solved, it is a repeated pattern of adding imbalanced content against Imran Khan and the PTI, exhibiting WP:IDHT in the talk page and then other users stepping in to resolve it.

Other Users Confirming This Behavior
Saqib - Saqib has raised concerns multiple times over SheriffIsInTown's POV pushing behavior patterns against PTI and Imran Khan on several pages including on Sheriff's talk page, primarily Sheriff removing PTI on election pages as well as in this discussion and here.

WikiEnthusiast1001 - WikiEnthusiast1001 has accused Sheriff of disruptive editing on the Imran Khan page and other pages recently. They also balanced out Sheriff's one-sided edits on Imran Khan and pointed out: This section is oddly worded and would be clearer if titled 'Controversies.' It presents a one-sided view without mentioning Imran's later clarifications. As Titan and I have noted, your strong involvement with this page suggests a potential bias. It might be best for you to take a break from editing and come back with fresh perspective. Take some time to unwind—there's more to life than just editing Wikipedia In their edit diff.

Saad Ali Khan Pakistan - Saad Ali Khan Pakistan has has accused SheriffIsInTown of bullying and constantly reverting his edits on election pages here and here. He recently urged admins to take action against Sheriff for said disruptive behavior.

I urge admins to take a look at the POV pushing behavior, as multiple other users have taken notice of it, and the diffs on the Imran Khan BLP are clear. The resolution to this negative editing pattern which has to be constantly corrected for NPOV, would be a topic ban on pages related to Imran Khan for SheriffIsInTown. Titan2456 (talk) 20:44, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Most of the accusations mentioned here were addressed in a previous ANI, where the majority of uninvolved editors dismissed their report. After Drmies closed the discussion, they approached Drmies to reopen the discussion, but their request was denied, and they were instructed to present stronger evidence, which they have been attempting to gather since then. As I mentioned, most of these accusations were already discussed and dismissed in the previous ANI. If an admin highlights anything new, I will gladly address it. Most issues arise from OP adding promotional or biased content, which compels me to step in and balance the narrative. Their support for PTI and its leaders is clear from the user box displayed on their user page, as seen in this revision:

This user supports the
Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf

They are not a neutral editor and are not here to contribute to building an encyclopedia but are instead driven by a political agenda. So far, I have only managed to address a fraction of their edits. In nearly every article related to a PTI figure that they have edited, they predominantly added promotional content, much of which still requires balancing—a task I intend to continue as time permits. I anticipate that they will return here repeatedly, as the promotional content they add can only be counterbalanced with material they may not favour, given their support for PTI and its leaders. They are upset with me because I am the only one standing in their way. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 22:24, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Titan2456, please post an ANI notification on the User talk page of every editor you mention in your opening comments, not just Sheriff. They should know that their comments might be discussed. No comment yet on the substance of your remarks. Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:50, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Here, they express a clear intention to specifically expand the criticism and allegations section against Ishaq Dar, a political opponent of PTI—the party they have openly declared their support for. Can we trust an editor who has openly aligned themselves with a political party and then explicitly states their intent to add criticism and allegations to articles about leaders of the opposing party? Shouldn’t their edits be reviewed for neutrality? Furthermore, they repeatedly file ANI reports against me for merely attempting to balance their edits, which ultimately wastes everyone’s time. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 01:44, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

So much to unpack, so maybe I'll go section by section. The POV pushing appears to be neutrally balanced. The wording could be better, but that's why there's a talk page. Aggressive behavior? I mean yeah it's aggressive but it feels more like a slap on the wrist type of warning that could be given, nothing more. The 3RR was discussed last time. Two NOTFORUM remarks doesn't feel like enough and they aren't exactly forum-like comments anyways. So, what actually do you want accomplished? Do you need someone to wag their finger at Sheriff and tell them to calm down? From what I can tell aggression is not equal to disruption, but making constant ANI reports about one user is. Conyo14 (talk) 02:35, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your response Conyo14, my primary concern is the POV pushing, which as stated is about not including other viewpoints (only adding criticism) when already knowing of such information. The opinion piece citation, only adding extensive amounts of negative information as well as watering down positive language on the Imran Khan BLP is WP:CPUSH. The reason for filing 2 reports was that following the report, Sheriff continued the same behavior, hence I have reported them again, with new information. The information added by Sheriff itself is not neutral, as it is covering contentious topics and presenting only one-sided views and criticism, it is POV. I acknowledge that most of these were solved in talk pages but the discussions involved WP:IDHT, with Sheriff ignoring points. For the 3RR example, it was only resolved after Saqib stepped in and the Imran Khan BLP after WikiEnthusiast1001 did. Similarly, in a recent discussion regarding the PTI's seat count, they have claimed to refuted Al Jazeera, BBC and multiple other newspapers with these remarks, which provides no source and ignores multiple sources given, it also ignores past and repeated discussions. These are repeated editing patterns and not isolated incidents which is why I have brought it to ANI. Regarding actions, if a user continues to cite opinion pieces, misrepresent sources to favor negative information, and present one-sided views on a specific BLP, I believe a topic ban from that specific BLP is a reasonable solution if this behavior persists after the first ANI report. I hope this clarifies this. Thank you. Titan2456 (talk) 16:25, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

It seems more like countering your POV. In case you did not hear it, Conyo14 stated, So much to unpack, so maybe I’ll go section by section. The POV pushing appears to be neutrally balanced. This means they took the time to review your over 8,000-byte report, examined your evidence, and concluded that what you called POV pushing was actually an effort to achieve neutral balance. As I have explained before, in case you didn’t hear it, most of my edits were made to counter the overly promotional and one-sided content you added. That’s why my contributions might seem more negative—they balance out the positive bias you had already introduced. You left no room for me to add anything positive because your edits were so overwhelmingly favourable. Why would you submit an 8,000-byte report? Do you think I don’t face challenges with other editors? Yet, I don’t file such extensive reports against anyone because I have no political affiliation. Filing such a lengthy report suggests more than just volunteerism—it points to a deeper affiliation. You might have a conflict of interest here. A topic ban is warranted—not for me, but for you. You should be restricted from editing any post-1970 Pakistani politics-related articles to prevent further use of Wikipedia for advancing PTI’s political agenda and for targeting living opponents of PTI. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 20:00, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

What promotional information did I add on the Imran Khan BLP which prompted you to cite a negative opinion piece for two paragraphs without mentioning it was an opinion piece? When you added a paragraph about one large negative opinion piece, I was forced to balance it with some short sentences on some positive opinions (which there were multiple), which you did not allow for by selectively extracting negative information from positive opinion pieces, why was this? What promotional content did I add for you to add one-sided claims about Imran Khan's comments on sexual violence? Also, which living opponents of PTI have I "targeted", are you talking about Ishaq Dar? I have added no information on his article, please follow up, as I want to know which opponents of PTI I have disproportionally represented. Titan2456 (talk) 21:58, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Sheriff, it is not wrong to express support for a political party. It becomes a COI if Titan were working with a campaign or for the political party's headquarters. However, it will be very good to keep in mind during the next ANI report, if there is one.

Titan, again, that statement isn't POV pushing, but it was worded very poorly. The wording is much more appropriate now. Conyo14 (talk) 00:32, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Expressing support for a political party is not inherently problematic, but when that support influences their editing and compromises neutrality, it becomes an issue. Based on my observations, the content they add to articles about PTI tends to lack neutral language and leans towards being promotional. For instance, the section titled "Education Sector Reforms" on PTI president's article focuses solely on achievements and could have been phrased in a more neutral manner. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 01:27, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

To Conyo14, Yes, the wording is better now following the balancing corrections added by me and other users. The situation is that these are repeated incidents that I cannot keep correcting. If it was just citing an opinion piece or adding extensive negative information to Imran Khan’s time in office, I would give Sheriff the benefit of the doubt, but continuing to add Khan’s controversial comments on rape without him and his government’s clarification, despite Sheriff knowing this and expanding negative content from positive opinion pieces is a bit too far to be good faith. If you believe that filing an ANI report again for this is not the right course of action then please advise me what would be if this pattern is repeating over and over on a contentious high priority BLP. Thank you Conyo14. Titan2456 (talk) 01:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

The appropriate course of action for you would be to refrain from adding promotional content in the first place and instead ensure that the content is balanced, so I don’t need to intervene to correct it. Regarding content related to sexual misconduct, please note that there are standalone articles addressing such matters for other political figures, such as Andrew Cuomo sexual harassment allegations and Donald Trump sexual misconduct allegations. The content I added was fully sourced, so there is no basis for you to criticise me for including it. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 02:18, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

As mentioned in the above comment, they added promotional content to the article on PTI president Parvez Elahi, as shown in this diff. Upon closer inspection, I identified issues with the first part of the content, while the second part references a PDF that will take me some time to review thoroughly. The first part, as noted in my edit summaries, was sourced to the university’s website, claiming the university was built by Elahi. There were two sources cited: The first source was a message from the vice chancellor. I removed it, explaining in the edit summary that it was a “Primary source, sourced to Vice Chancellor’s message.” The second source did not mention Elahi at all, so I removed the content with the edit summary “And no mention of Elahi in this second source.” For now, as long as this ANI remains open, I will continue reporting my findings on their apparent bias in favour of PTI. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 04:37, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Spot on @Titan2456, I agree that a topic ban should be placed on Sheriff. Here, Sheriff makes a peculiar comment: "One happy family, add a relevant photo of good time." Similar to statements from Khan's opposition, this is highly unencyclopedic. Strangely, he placed the 2018 image in the Removal from office section, even though Khan was removed in 2022. Possibly biased? WikiEnthusiast1001 (talk) 05:29, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

There is nothing inappropriate about the comment. In the picture, they are smiling and can reasonably be described as "happy." Additionally, the fact that the picture is from 2018 is irrelevant since the section discusses the Army's role in Khan's removal. This is the only picture I could find where Khan and Bajwa, the head of the Army during his tenure, are present together. Why is it that no pictures of Khan interacting with Army personnel are being included in articles about him? While he may have had conflicts with the Army, we, as volunteer Wikipedians, do not. Moreover, why does Titan appear to be adding the cropped version of the same picture with Pompeo that excludes Bajwa? They are even placing that cropped picture of Khan with Pompeo under the Domestic appointments section, which does not align with the section's content. In contrast, the version, showing Bajwa, would have been far more relevant to the Domestic appointments section since Bajwa's tenure was extended during Khan's time. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 11:39, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

@WikiEnthusiast1001 Since you are already here, why not explain your action to remove the only criticism from the COVID-19 response section while filling it entirely with achievements and praise? The section is now heavily imbalanced and lacks a neutral perspective due to the removal of criticism. How about we hold you accountable for this action and consider a topic ban, given how readily you suggest such measure against me? Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 12:53, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

You are unfairly accusing me of removing criticism when I only removed excessive detail. Readers could easily hover over the citation to see the criticism, which was unnecessary and overly detailed. As @Titan2456 and @Saad Ali Khan Pakistan have pointed out, you seem overly attached to this page, treating it as if you own it. You've harassed multiple contributors, including me, by falsely accusing me of removing sources simply because they were Indian during the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Robert Cawthome (2nd nomination) discussion. Your stubborn refusal to admit your mistake there and in this second ANI shows that YOU are the problem. WikiEnthusiast1001 (talk) 04:24, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

I have been editing in Wikipedia since 2017 and I tried to be as neural as possible while editing pages. I never involved in unnecessary changes or edits which are not related to that person. I mainly focused on constituency pages and electoral history related pages because they were not updated like electoral pages of India. I edited over 900 constituency pages of National Assembly and Provincial assemblies of Pakistan and didn't favor any party or went against any party or politician. I was editing daily until Sheriff came and started bullying by reverting edits I made before 2024 elections. I wanted to add election boxes in constituency pages so that during and after election results it would be easy for the editors to edit and write results. He came and reverted my edits and even after elections when majority of Media sources from Pakistan and the World were showing PTI backed Independents separate from other Independents having support of no parties. He started to argue with me and reverted my edits again. I stopped editing since March because I don't have spare time to waste on a person who likes to bully and argue with other editors like he owns Wikipedia. If a person writes information without credible source their edits should be reverted but if someone reverts edits for no reason than I consider this harassment and bullying and this needs to be stopped. An Institution like Wikipedia should not tolerate bullies like Sheriff which misuse their influence and bully other editors. I request Administration to take serious action against bullies like Sheriff. Saad Ali Khan Pakistan (talk)

User:SheriffIsInTown, I'm a bit surprised you made this edit. Drmies (talk) 19:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• I don't have an opinion on the conduct of either party or on the content of the article. The filing editor had filed a request at DRN for moderated discussion, and then filed this case here. I have closed the DRN discussion because we do not discuss a dispute at DRN that is also being discussed in another content forum or a conduct forum. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:06, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  I support that decision, thank you Robert McClenon. Titan2456 (talk) 19:13, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

@Drmies There was certainly scope for improvement, and I accepted the subsequent revisions made to that content. That being said, that diff was part of the previous ANI filed against me. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 19:28, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Sheriff, you did not accept subsequent revisions, that is false, and this proves it’s not a one-off mistake. First, you undid my edit of mentioning it is an opinion piece, then you argued that it was a reliable source which did not need a mention of the opinion piece status, then when addressed in talk, you accused me of Why do you consistently choose the most positive angles for PTI and Imran Khan and never balance it with contrary views to maintain neutrality? I am simply correcting the one-sided narrative, which came across as a chancellorship campaign, portraying him as suffering and still fighting and campaigning from jail. simply because I told you it was necessary to mention it is an opinion piece. Finally after you were convinced, I added a short few sentences about 3 positive opinion pieces, which as per WP:DUE would actually require more information than the 1 negative opinion piece. Regardless, you didn’t even allow for that and selectively extracted negative information from these mostly positive opinion pieces. Admins, I once again urge you to take notice of this behavior. Titan2456 (talk) 20:45, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

The edit you claim I undid was actually the result of an edit conflict. I had been working on several other language changes in that section for a while and had the editor open. It seems I published my edit around the same time as you, which inadvertently resulted in reverting your changes. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 21:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

This shows how neutral he is. In election pages of 1988 and 2015 Senate Elections MQM and PMLN ran as independents but they are shown as party but he is only showing PTI candidates as Independents. How can he do these kinds of edits without any discussion or consensus. Saad Ali Khan Pakistan (talk) 19:45, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I do not recall ever editing the two Senate election pages you mentioned. Can you provide diffs showing me listing independent candidates as belonging to PML-N or MQM, or even supporting such a claim? It’s interesting how you appear in every ANI filed against me—this is the third one where you’ve shown up, repeating the same unfounded allegations. The last time, after seven months of inactivity, you surfaced specifically for my ANI. Your contribution frequency speaks for itself. For the onlookers: Saad Ali Khan Pakistan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), you are definitely not here to build encyclopedia but rather here to just target me. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 20:09, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I went inactive just because of you. You were keep reverting my edits without no reason. You are the reason why Pakistani pages of Wikipedia are not updated like Indian or other countries. I wanted to contribute as much as possible but I will get bullied by reverting my edits by you. I give my time and effort and you come from no where and revert my edits by just one click. You should be ashamed of your behavior. Wherever any case will be filed involving you I will raise my voice to show your reality. Saad Ali Khan Pakistan (talk) 20:23, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

So, you are accepting that you are not here to build an encyclopedia but your life's mission now is to target me. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 20:33, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I am here to show your reality of you that you are a bully. I don't consider bullies like you to be targeted or discussed. I am just here to give my opinion. My life has much important things to do instead of wasting my time and energy on a person like you who just likes to bully so that he gets discussed by other editors. I am not a supporter of any party and not a person like you targeting just one party and its leader and claims to be so-called "Neutral" which is a joke. Saad Ali Khan Pakistan (talk) 20:52, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I don’t know the validity of Saad Ali Khan Pakistan’s claims but saying that he is not here to build an encyclopedia is absurd, when one takes a further notice at his contributions, he updated every single Pakistani Constituency with 2023 delimitations, a large set of neutral edits he would have nothing to gain out of. Additionally, Sheriff, if you think every user who says something against you is part of a “PTI cabal”, feel free to report them on ANI in a separate thread, as this thread is for your actions.

To Administrators: So far, SheriffIsInTown has accused WikiEnthusiast1001, Myself and Saad Ali Khan Pakistan of being part of a “PTI cabal”, needing a topic ban and being not here to build an encycolpedia. Pardon my language but these claims are absurd, while SheriffIsInTown themselves has remained unanswerable for their POV pushing on the Imran Khan BLP, which is this threads topic. Titan2456 (talk) 20:53, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

See constituency pages of NA-1 Chitral, PK-1 Chitral, PK-2 Chitral, PK-3 Swat which he reverted for no reason. I edited them before and he said it is against neutrality and when i tried editing again during and after election he reverted them again.

I have seen Indian Lok Sabha pages which added candidates in election boxes before polls but he didnt let me add election boxes before election. every constituency of National Assembly is showing PTI backed Independents as regular independents which makes readers confusing.

See 1988 elections MQM candidates an as independents but they are shown separate from other independents because they had support of MQM but he still showed PTI candidates as Independents. Saad Ali Khan Pakistan (talk) 21:08, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Since you are speaking on their behalf, how do you explain their appearance in an ANI which you filed against me in October after being inactive since March? Did you approach them, and if so, how? Their actions—showing up in an ANI against me after seven months of inactivity and then appearing in this ANI again—clearly suggest they are not here to contribute to building an encyclopedia but are solely targeting me. Can you explain what else they have contributed to over the last eight months? Feel free to report them on ANI in a separate thread, as this thread is about your actions. However, when you accuse someone of wrongdoing in an ANI, your own behaviour can also be scrutinised. Separate ANIs are not necessary for that. Keep in mind that if you file an ANI against another editor, your actions will also be subject to evaluation. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 22:06, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Are you really asking that question? When someone is tagged/mentioned in an ANI report, you get a notification as I tagged Saad Ali Khan Pakistan in both reports. Titan2456 (talk) 22:13, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Even if I were away from Wikipedia for seven months, I wouldn’t return solely to participate in an ANI or constantly monitor my notifications to ensure I don’t miss appearing in one. It’s simply not practical—unless someone is so driven by a battleground mindset that they make a deliberate effort to check their notifications daily to seize every possible opportunity. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 22:26, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Moreover, how do you hear about ANI's against me? Are you part of some off-wiki PTI cabal that I have heard so much about? Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 20:39, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• This has been long due 👉🏽 Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/LanguageXpert. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 00:09, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Dispute at Redbox article

An IP hopper (range: 92.40.212.0/23 (block range · block log (global) · WHOIS (partial))) has been attempting to add a user-generated wiki to the Redbox article by doing the following:

• Declaring that their source is "reliable" themselves
• Using my disability status as a way to downplay/personally attack me when I warned them
• Claiming to be "moderation"
• Claiming that their disruptive edits were "requested" by another user who simply cleaned up the article (and even stated that the IP's edits "did not seem encyclopedic")

Would like a path forward here.

wizzito | say hello! 02:27, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

That personal attack should be at minimum a block. non-admin comment Conyo14 (talk) 02:41, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

The IP Is still at it [185] claiming the reverts are "vandalism" and "done for no reason". It appears the IP is Not listening thus A range block is necessary. Lavalizard101 (talk) 23:07, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Looks like admin User:Pickersgill-Cunliffe has blocked the latest IP address in the range 92.40.213.139 for 31 hrs. A little earlier I've also started a talk page discussion here and invited the IP to it from their talk page, so hopefully the block gets the message across and that they will discuss the content dispute instead of continuing to edit war. — AP 499D25 (talk) 23:20, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Blocking the latest IP has proven to do nothing, the IP came back with another one in the range and reverted with claims of vandalism again [186]. @Pickersgill-Cunliffe: It might be easier to range block rather than whack a mole. Lavalizard101 (talk) 01:08, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm not experienced with range blocks so I'll leave it to others, but a /23 block seems to be quite a wide net. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:13, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

A /23 is not that wide, especially if we just partially block them from the Redbox article. wizzito | say hello! 01:35, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Good idea. P-blocked the range from the article for one week. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:50, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

User now likely active as User:EncyclopediaFixer. --Leonidlednev (T, C, L) 16:30, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Wow, that talk page discussion turned wild. Maybe this is some sort of LTA? The Spanish writing on some of the user talk pages reminds me of VXFC, but doesn't look like a strong link to me. — AP 499D25 (talk) 23:53, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Highly suspect LTA as well considering the switch to proxies by the vandal wizzito | say hello! 00:33, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

User:NigelPorter and User:Bjcook; potential COI and/or SOCK

I recently requested a review of the article Brendon Cook as I believe that it doesn't meet Wikipedia's standards, reasons for which can be found here. This article already has a COI cloud under it, as User:Bjcook (a direct reference to the subject's name) created the article and continues to edit Wikipedia regularly.

User:NigelPorter then stated his opinion, however did not reference any Wikipedia policies or even clearly state whether they supported or opposed the AfD. Having replied to them with valid reasons as to why their suggestions did not meet Wikipedia's criteria, they then proceeded to claim that I had some sort of "personal agenda" against the subject of the article due to my user name - despite their user page containing userboxes indicating similar interests. This user then immediately copied the contents of the article into their sandbox, indicating that they will immediately resubmit the article if it is deleted.

Their actions towards the proposed deletion of the article suggest a potential COI or an attitude of article ownership, or even a potential sock puppet of User:Bjcook, that is in disregard to Wikipedia policy. MSportWiki (talk) 06:32, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Three main things:

1. I am going to note that Bjcook has not edited Brendon Cook since 2007. While there might be a COI concern with respect to that, I don't really think that alone would be cause for action.
2. We then move to the sockpuppetry allegations: Both Bjcook and NigelPorter have an interest in Australian racing (and sport more broadly), and they are both infrequent but longtime editors. I don't see enough to block here on mere comparisons of topic interest, though it might be worth a checkuser taking a look. I'd suggest you lodge that at WP:SPI, which is more competent to handle those concerns.
3. As for civility and WP:OWNERSHIP, I agree that this is unnecessarily inflammatory, and I would note that this is a WP:COPYWITHIN violation in addition to a clear attempt to skirt the AfD by unilaterally userfying the page.

— Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 04:58, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

An SPI has been opened here, thank you. MSportWiki (talk) 05:26, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

EDIT: Both editors have contributed to Queensland netball-related articles in the last few months (Bjcook and NigelPorter) whilst Brendon Cook sits on a board for Indigenous netball in Queensland (sources 1 2) – clear evidence of COI and sockpuppetry. @Acalamari, Discospinster, Finlay McWalter, Graeme Bartlett, Joe Roe, Liz, Mjroots, Pppery, Tassedethe, and Voorts: pinging some randomly active editors to kickstart the procedure. MSportWiki (talk) 13:20, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

You'd be better off taking the above to WP:SPI. TarnishedPath^talk 05:04, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Done (here), thank you. MSportWiki (talk) 05:25, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

You will see that we both attended, with many other Wikipedians in Brisbane, meet ups advertised and encouraged. Just because I became wiki friends with many of the attendants and share common interests, is not sockpuppertry. There is no COI because User:Bjcook is not Brendon Cook. His name is Brian.

You will also see that we have different IP addresses. We don't live or work with each other.

I find it distressing that the first person to disagree with you has a case opened against them. This is an attack on me. NigelPorter (talk) 05:38, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

NigelPorter, I know it is disconcerting to be included in an SPI report. I know it was for me when I first started editing. And it's happened to many other editors. Just let the process work. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 09:25, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

"Jolly J" Fennimore making accusations of criminal activity

"Jolly J" Fennimore (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is making various claims of criminal activity on Lackawanna Cut-Off Restoration Project (diff). These accusations apparently originate with him (not from the press or government) and certainly fall afoul of WP:BLP. He appears to be editing primarily to publicize these allegations (see edit summary here of I added several serious crimes that have occurred during the restoration of the Cut-Off. I have many more still to add. I have become an investigative journalist and have a newspaper with stories related to this (and exposing [person]) coming out early 2025. While his edits cite some sources, they don't support 90% of the screed, including all of the criminal allegations. His talk page comments here and here indicate a total lack of why his editing is inappropriate. I unfortunately did not leave an edit warring notice until after my second revert and his third of the day, but given these allegations, I think admin action may be needed. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 07:21, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Why do you claim I didn't cite my sources? "Jolly J" Fennimore (talk) 07:48, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

You claim falsely that 90% of what I wrote is not supported. You pulled this percentage out of thin air. Nonetheless, if you do not believe that 90% is supported- Why did you remove 100%? Is being an investigative journalist and being on Wikipedia non-compatible? I could cite many more sources and add much more, but then the page would be a mile long. If you need me to clarify or give more substantiation- let me know where you need more clarification and more citations and they will be added. All I know is my work on Wikipedia was deleted and you did so claiming that I didn't cite sources. Like I said, if you can point out what I didn't cite, I will add citations and if they aren't readily available, I will remove those sections for a day, before I can find them in my notes. I am a fairly easy-going person, there is no reason to bother administrators, they do enough work already. "Jolly J" Fennimore (talk) 07:59, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

@"Jolly J" Fennimore: Most of what you added is improper synthesis: you improperly drew your own conclusions not explicitly stated by any of the sources you cited. Please also read WP:RGW: we are not a place to post new investigative journalism, only a place where things that have already been reported by a independent reliable source can be given their due weight, not more not less. If your goal here is to make new reports of misconduct, then I'm afraid Wikipedia is not the place for it. Remember, the people you are mentioning are living, so we must be very careful about what we say about them.--Jasper Deng (talk) 08:58, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

There is also edit-warring going on here. I've warned the editor (who has now been warned twice) but they might cross the 3RR line. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 08:59, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your help, I am still fairly new here and still don't know why anybody is talking about "War"? I didn't start any war. "Jolly J" Fennimore (talk) 09:19, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

@"Jolly J" Fennimore: Edit warring is not a war per se but has a specific meaning on Wikipedia. Please refer to that link. Essentially, you were repeatedly reinserting content when others have shown their opposition by taking it back out.--Jasper Deng (talk) 09:34, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• I have indefinitely pageblocked "Jolly J" Fennimore from Lackawanna Cut-Off Restoration Project due to violations of our policies regarding biographies of living people, no original research and edit warring. The editor is free to make well-referenced, policy compliant edit requests at Talk: Lackawanna Cut-Off Restoration Project. Cullen328 (talk) 19:31, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

User:Thekz Cos

This user keeps moving pages from the sandbox to the Wikipedia namespace. They have been warned twice on the talk page but continue to do so. Annh07 (talk) 11:46, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

In User talk:Thekz Cos § October 2024 they responded to the warning with noted. Since then, they've moved six more drafts to the Wikipedia namespace:

• Special:Redirect/logid/165534378: Nov 2, Wikipedia:Marko Podgornik Verdev
• Special:Redirect/logid/165577025: Nov 4, Wikipedia:Jordy Kool (Entrepreneur)
• Special:Redirect/logid/165595808: Nov 5, Wikipedia:Dr. Heiko Visarius (Medtech Expert,Board Member, Moderator)
• Special:Redirect/logid/165666334: Nov 8, Wikipedia:Outlook Travel Magazine
• Special:Redirect/logid/165726593: Nov 11, Wikipedia:Laurence Kemball-Cook
• Special:Redirect/logid/165814944: Nov 15, Wikipedia:Lab Interior GmbH

jlwoodwa (talk) 11:56, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello,

What's going on? Thekz Cos (talk) 11:58, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for bringing up the matter regarding the movement of drafts to the Wikipedia namespace. I appreciate the opportunity to clarify this process and its compliance with Wikipedia’s guidelines and broader legal considerations.

The migration of drafts to the Wikipedia namespace is a standard practice and fully aligns with Wikipedia’s purpose of collaboratively building an encyclopedia. The following points address your concerns and provide context:

1. Legal and Community Compliance Wikipedia operates under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 (CC BY-SA 3.0) and GFDL licenses. These licenses explicitly allow the sharing, modifying, and publishing of content, provided proper attribution is maintained. Moving drafts to the main namespace does not violate these licenses as it remains within the scope of Wikipedia's content-sharing policies.
2. Editorial Review and Process The drafts moved to the Wikipedia namespace are subject to Wikipedia’s robust editorial processes, including community oversight and adherence to notability and sourcing guidelines. This ensures the integrity and quality of the articles, maintaining the platform’s credibility and mission.
3. Transparency and Traceability The edits and actions, including draft movements, are transparently logged in the platform's history. This allows the community to review and discuss any concerns openly. The action of moving drafts reflects consensus-driven contributions rather than unilateral decisions.
4. Encouraging Collaboration Moving a draft to the main namespace often signifies its readiness for broader community input. This step is critical to engaging a diverse editor base for improving, expanding, and refining the content collaboratively.

If you have specific concerns about a particular draft or process, I’m more than willing to discuss further and address any issues. I am confident that all actions taken align with Wikipedia’s guidelines and legal framework. Thekz Cos (talk) 12:02, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

The concern is the particular process: you're moving pages to the Wikipedia namespace, not to the main namespace. —C.Fred (talk) 12:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing out the concern regarding the process of moving drafts to the Wikipedia namespace instead of the main namespace. I understand the importance of adhering to proper workflows and ensuring that all actions align with community norms.

The movement of pages to the Wikipedia namespace is typically used for internal pages or supplementary content that supports the encyclopedia's infrastructure, such as policies, guidelines, and administrative tools. If my actions of moving drafts to this namespace are perceived as inappropriate or inconsistent with its intended purpose, I sincerely apologize for the confusion caused.

That said, I would like to provide clarification:

1. Intent of the Moves The decision to move drafts to the Wikipedia namespace was made to allow further collaboration, refinement, or discussion among editors before publishing in the main namespace. It is not my intention to misuse the Wikipedia namespace or disrupt its purpose.
2. Corrective Steps Moving forward, I will ensure that drafts, once ready, are moved directly to the main namespace unless there is a specific, community-approved reason to do otherwise. If any of the drafts currently in the Wikipedia namespace need reassignment, I am open to addressing them promptly.
3. Community Consultation I am happy to discuss this process with the appropriate editors or administrators to ensure alignment with community guidelines. Constructive feedback will help refine my understanding and adherence to the expected standards.

If there is a specific protocol or workflow I should follow for such cases, I would greatly appreciate your guidance. My goal remains to contribute positively and in accordance with Wikipedia’s best practices.

Thank you for your understanding, and I look forward to resolving this matter collaboratively. Thekz Cos (talk) 12:06, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @Jlwoodwa. Also there are currently 18 pages in the Wikipedia namespace: [187]. Annh07 (talk) 12:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• Looking at the text of what is now Draft:Marko Podgornik Verdev, I have concerns that there may be paid editing going on here that has not been disclosed. —C.Fred (talk) 12:06, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  I mention on every page that these are paid contributions. Thekz Cos (talk) 12:08, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  Good point. Draft talk:Outlook Publishing Ltd, for example, does contain the required paid-contributions disclosure. —C.Fred (talk) 12:10, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  Can I move these pages to the mainspace with the paid contribution disclosure? Thekz Cos (talk) 12:12, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  No. None of them are suitable for mainspace at the moment; they are unsourced, poorly-sourced or sourced to primary sources, and much of the language is promotional. If they are moved to mainspace they would be deleted very quickly. You will need to fix the problems with them and present them through the WP:AFCREVIEW process. Black Kite (talk) 12:19, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Thekz Cos Not only is you moving the pages a violation of WP:Conflict of interest, but having to clean up messes like User:Thekz Cos/sandbox/Laurence Kemball-Cook → Laurence Kemball-Cook → Draft:Laurence Kemball-Cook is also a drain on administrative resources. —C.Fred (talk) 12:25, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  If Thekz Cos could respond without copy and pasting a large AI-generated spiel this time we might make some progress here. Right now I believe we've only received two, short, human responses. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 12:14, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Pickersgill-Cunliffe They do at least seem to be more responsive than the typical paid editor. They've undone their mistakes as best they could, and they made the paid editing disclosure in the first place. I'm willing to give a little benefit of the doubt with the AI response—I used AI to refine an email in the workplace recently, and I'm a native English speaker. I think the immediate concern on pages going into Wikipedia: space is solved; I don't think immediate administrative actions are needed, but at the same time, it's probably worth peeking in on their contributions from time to time and making sure they're moving in the right direction. —C.Fred (talk) 12:19, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  If there is any admin action here it should be to block based on incompetence. Thekz Cos, understand what people are saying and respond in your own words. You are being paid for your competence rather than an LLM's incompetence. And the description above of why you moved these to Wikipedia space almost exactly matches our use of Draft space. You were told, and agreed, to use it back in August. Phil Bridger (talk) 12:27, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Phil Bridger And now they're moving pages out of Draft: space back to their user space. I just gave a {{uw-move4}} warning and strongly suggested they not move any more pages without asking for assistance. —C.Fred (talk) 12:30, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  User partially blocked from moving pages for one week. —C.Fred (talk) 12:36, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Nigerian name project

There seems to be some project to add all Nigerian names to Wikipedia, based on unreliable sources (maybe centered around the wiki yorubaname.com) and without much care about our standards. I haven't been able to find any central page or responsible person though, and the number of editors and pages is quite overwhelming. While this had lead to a fair number of useful disambiguation pages, it has also produced many problematic pages, many of which I turned into redirects or have nominated for deletion. The latest example I reverted was this, turning the page about the surname Wale into a page about the first name, "a distinctive and culturally rich choice for a baby boy"...

Any help in dealing with this never-ending influx is welcome. Editors I encountered (probably a non-exhaustive list) include User:GladysJombo, User:Emmanuella643, User:Bembety, User:Halima Waziri, User:Airypedia, User:Aderiqueza, User:Tunde Akangbe, User:Abike25, ... Fram (talk) 13:53, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

All Nigerian names? Sounds pretty big. Can you give some diffs or examples? The 🏎 Corvette 🏍 ZR1^{(The Garage)} 15:41, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Just check the recent contributions of these users. Ymblanter (talk) 15:49, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Indeed, or similar creations by people not even named in my original list, like Ogundele or Dupe (name). Fram (talk) 16:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

@GreenLipstickLesbian looked into this, and from what she found it's likely from an editathon being organized in Nigeria. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 16:21, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Ridzaina (talk) 19:58, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for sharing your concerns about the addition of Nigerian names to Wikipedia. I appreciate the opportunity to provide clarification regarding the project's purpose and processes and to address the points you have raised.

The primary goal of this project is to document indigenous Nigerian names on Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons, addressing a significant gap in representation for culturally significant names.

To ensure compliance with Wikipedia's standards for verifiability and notability, participants have been guided to use reliable sources, such as books. The intention is not to create promotional or problematic content but to contribute meaningful and culturally significant information. As part of this effort, links to notable individuals bearing these names have been included in the articles to add context and relevance.

For the issues identified in some of the pages, the team has taken the following corrective measures:

1. Pauses the Campaign: The campaign has been temporarily paused to allow for a thorough cleanup.

2. Tracking Contributions: We are systematically tracking all the contributions from the beginning of the campaign.

3. Identify non-notable names for potential drafting or deletion under the A7 criteria.

4. Documenting for SIA: Names associated with a significant number of notable individuals, whether as surnames or given names, will be documented as an WP:SIA and categorized appropriately under Category:African given names.

I welcome your feedback and suggestions on how we can better align with Wikipedia’s guidelines and improve the quality of our contributions. Thank you once again for your input and collaboration. Cheers! Ridzaina (talk) 20:16, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

WP:A7 doesn't apply to names. Did you use an AI to write this? jlwoodwa (talk) 05:31, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Nigerian English sounds like AI, ey? LOL. Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 08:31, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

@Ridzaina: thanks for your answer (although we much prefer answers which don't look like they were written by an AI tool). Can you please have all discussions about this project somewhere on enwiki, so others can see e.g. the instructions and chime in if these are not policy-compliant? Problems with sourcing and so on can be much more easily solved if there is a central point of discussion, and it might have avoided an ANI discussion as well. Further, I see you started removing the yorubaname.com source as an unreliable source (good), but then for unclear reasons you selfreverted this[188][189][190][191]. Why? Fram (talk) 10:19, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Fram. I can assure you that the ideas in the message were not generated by AI. I am the project coordinator, and I apologize for not introducing myself earlier. The message above clearly reflects the actions and decisions we have taken to address the current challenges.

Upon discovering this mention, my team and I had swung into action to address the anomalies that were discovered, even though we ensure weekly review and are constantly monitoring and updating our article list.

To ensure this discussion takes place at enwiki in order maintain transparency and promote better communication as you have proposed, could you please direct me to where the discussion can be held?

I reverted those edits to have this conversation and to confirm that it is indeed the best course of action.

Also, the primary reason I suggested A7 is that most of the names were created as articles. A7 applies to articles that lack any indication of importance, making it a suitable option. However, if there are other speedy deletion criteria that better align with the current situation, please suggest them, and we can apply them after completing the massive drafting effort we are currently undertaking to identify the faulty articles, as you can see below:

Here; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abidoye

Here; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramide_(name)

Here; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inioluwa

Here; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abodunrin Ridzaina (talk) 15:36, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Anthroponymy would seem a logical place, crossposting to Wikipedia:WikiProject Nigeria to get input from and collaboration of Nigerian editors. The first project presumably knows the standards for such articles, the second has the knowledge of and interest in Nigerian topics. And editors with concerns about the results can then post there and smoothen things out before a lot of work is wasted. Fram (talk) 15:53, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

@Ridzaina It might be more beneficial to create a list of Nigerian names in draft space as a group. References could be added to that page, and the team of editors could take time to get it ready. You can create it at Draft:List of Nigerian names. The issue with name pages on the English wikipedia is we typically use them as navigation pages, so if there are no people with those names that have articles on wikipedia it is usually not possible to have a page on that name unless the sourcing is excellent and can pass WP:SIGCOV.4meter4 (talk) 05:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much for this and to @Fram for starting this conversation. I will definitely work on that. The major issue now is with the referencing because most of these names have a number of people with those names that have articles on Wikipedia but there is still a need for references. However, I think what we might do is what you have just suggested. We will keep on working on how to get reliable sources for referencing once we have drafted the affected articles. Thank you. Ridzaina (talk) 08:17, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

In addition to the idea of the articles being (re)created as set index articles, a sourced listicle would suffice. Also, I’d suggest we hold on with nominating articles for deletion and reach a consensus and perhaps bundle those problematic articles and nominate. Best, Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 08:39, 20 November 2024 (UTC) ping on reply

User:Erobran

This user continues to add new flight service at Jorge Chávez International Airport (Turkish Airlines will start Lima to Istanbul flights in June without providing an exact date as per WP:AIRPORT-CONTENT. Left messages regarding and left him a link to the discussion but continues to argue and be nasty about it. 2600:1700:8544:D000:58A7:9DD1:E885:7BD4 (talk) 16:38, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Dude.

Is it you who removes useful relevant information? In doing so, it is you who is vandalizing.

the wikiproject referred to is NOT the official wikipedia rules!

the rules for wikipedia are simply that there must be a source when something is published. NOT ALL THE ELSE!

I have as much right to write as I do as you do! In addition, it is vandalism when you and the other person constantly undo my edit around a legal edit with sources!

if you also read the project it is also there. "Are not official guidelines"! Erobran (talk) 17:37, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

WP:DR has lots of suggestions for resolving disputes. I suggest both OP and Erobran look at those.

And, Erobran, while it is natural to get upset in this situation, putting your emotions into your replies does not help, and probably hurts, the process of coming to a satisfactory resolution of an online disagreement. Please focus on the facts of the disagreement. Thank you. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 22:36, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

the rules for wikipedia are simply that there must be a source when something is published. No, this is completely wrong. Wikipedia has a massive number of policies and guidelines regarding what should be included, of which WP:Verifiability is only one small part. That page explicitly states that Verifiability does not guarantee inclusion and The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content (WP:VNOT). You should also read up on what WP:Vandalism is, it has a specific definition on wikipedia and mislabelling good faith edits as vandalism is going to get you into trouble. 86.23.109.101 (talk) 15:47, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

• Erobran - while I don't think this needed to be brought here (it's a bit of an escalation of a content dispute), can I suggest you take a look at WP:EW? If a bunch of people are reverting you, you need to go to the talk page and discuss your changes and get consensus for them. Don't just keep reinstating them or you'll end up blocked. Girth Summit _(blether) 17:59, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
• Girth Summit: User reverting at Istanbul Airport [192]. 2600:1700:8544:D000:9D0E:3239:A3E:70F8 (talk) 18:57, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  Just being clear their last revert at Istanbul Airport was prior to the submission of this incident so this is part of the original reported behaviour and not new behaviour after the report, right? Simonm223 (talk) 20:19, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  Correct. 2600:1700:8544:D000:58A7:9DD1:E885:7BD4 (talk) 20:32, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• I've given Erobran some advice on why edit warring to force through their preferred version of these pages is problematic. I don't think that this needs any further action immediately; their editing seems to be somewhat sporadic, but if they continue in the same vein when they resume editing feel free to ping me from here if this hasn't been archived, or report at WP:ANEW. Girth Summit _(blether) 11:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
  • What I find problematic is his blatant disregard of community guidelines. The Banner talk 13:34, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

    Hi again "The Banner"

    Now I have read the elaboration. I am partially right in my claim that a WikiProject does NOT define when an edit is correct or incorrect. That would give me the right to edit as I had done WITHOUT specifying a start date. (If you read several other pages about airports, a start date is also not specified) That is why I took it as personal harassment!

    However, it must be said that I have NOT approached the matter sufficiently. What I should have done was to justify the decision instead of simply reversing an edit. I will do this in the future on the talk pages instead. Erobran (talk) 13:48, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

User:176.113.180.173

Persistent WP:NOTHERE. First time doing this so don't know if I need to provide specific diffs, but you can see the page history at History of Africa. I've tried to draw them into discussion at Talk:History of Africa#November 2024, and even compromise with the changes they keep trying to make. Their edits are substantially similar to the edits of User:NutmegCoffeeTea (notification of NCT) made a couple of days before, so it might be worth a check user, but I doubt it is her. The IP is clearly taking the piss and having fun, I templated them and they just templated me back. Kowal2701 (talk) 19:41, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

notification of IP Kowal2701 (talk) 19:43, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

I've not been in this situation before, and haven't found access to all the different templates to use with newbies. I don't know what I could've done differently. Kowal2701 (talk) 19:46, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

General comment:Kowal2701, in a noticeboard complaint like this one, the OP is expected to supply diffs/edits that illustrate what the problem is with the editor's conduct. Otherwise, editors have to go looking for them which will lessen the chances that you'll get much feedback here. You want to make it obvious to others what the problem is but you haven't even stated what the issue is with this account's editing by identifying what guideline or policy they are violating. Assume your fellow editor is devoting 3-5 minutes to reviewing your complaint, can they easily see what's going on here? If not, they are likely to not offer you a response.

You don't need to apologize, no one expects an editor to make a full and comprehensive report the first time they open a complaint on ANI and, if you are lucky, an editor will tell you what your report is missing. ;-) Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:56, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. The IP is clearly WP:not here to build an encyclopedia and keeps WP:edit warring for their preferred changes (their edits: [193][194][195][196][197]) while resisting attempts from others for collaboration (see [198]). They've been reverted by four different people (including me) for a total of 5 times (others' reverts: [199][200][201] my reverts: [202][203]). They have been templated three times by three different people (including me) for unconstructive editing, vandalism, and edit warring (see User talk:176.113.180.173).

The edits are very similar to User:NutmegCoffeeTea's made two days before which I reverted (her edits: [204][205][206][207][208][209]). I want to clarify I'm not accusing NCT of anything, I just can't ignore the similarity of their edits, and wonder whether a check user might be warranted? Kowal2701 (talk) 21:49, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

This has been resolved with the page being protected, please feel free to archive this Kowal2701 (talk) 22:19, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the report – I hope semi-protection solves the disruption for now. Checkusers won't publicly connect IP addresses to accounts, so requesting a check wouldn't result in a different answer than " No comment". ~ ToBeFree (talk) 22:27, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Okay thank you. I'll apologise to the user. Kowal2701 (talk) 22:29, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

This is very kind, thank you! ~ ToBeFree (talk) 22:42, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

The user's response to the edit war notice on the user's talk page was to retaliate with an edit war notice on the other user's talk page. 172.56.235.58 (talk) 22:38, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Ram112313 promoting Bochasanwasi Akshar Purushottam Swaminarayan Sanstha

Moved from User talk:ToBeFree

 – ToBeFree (talk) 00:42, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Original heading: November 2024

This user appears to be on Wikipedia to promote their organization, as can be seen here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ram112313 They have blanked out all their warnings and blocks on their talk page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ram112313 I just added a final warning to their talk page. Thank you. Ram1751 (talk) 19:16, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi Ram1751, thanks for the notification. Which organization exactly are they promoting? Can you provide multiple examples (diffs) where that organization was added to articles? ~ ToBeFree (talk) 22:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

They are promoting Bochasanwasi Akshar Purushottam Swaminarayan Sanstha - many WP:OR additions (some with an overtly promotional tone) and removal of sourced material not complimentary to the organization. See diffs here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Hindu_temples_in_the_United_States&diff=prev&oldid=1255906861

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hindu_denominations&diff=prev&oldid=1205761794

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shri_Radhika_Krishnashtaka&diff=prev&oldid=1255480033

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Swaminarayan_Akshardham_(New_Jersey)&diff=prev&oldid=1254947172

- Ram1751 (talk) 23:50, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks!

I'd now like to hear a statement from Ram112313 or block for disruptively ignoring community concerns in case the editing continues without a statement being provided. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 00:45, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

The edits to the Shri Radhika-Krishnashtaka article, as reflected in the edit history, demonstrate that the previous version was heavily skewed with a non-neutral tone, failing to align with Wikipedia's standards for balanced and unbiased content. Similarly, the changes made to the List of Hindu temples article included an incorrect claim that the Shri Ranganathaswamy Temple is larger than Swaminarayan Akshardham, which is factually inaccurate. As stated within the article itself, Swaminarayan Akshardham is indeed larger in both single structure size and hectares. Regarding the Swaminarayan Akshardham (New Jersey) edits, discussions are ongoing on the article's talk page, and no further updates have been finalized yet. Additionally, my other contributions, such as the edits to the Shikshapatri article, do not reflect any bias toward BAPS and adhere to Wikipedia's neutrality guidelines. The removal of sourced material in the Desh Lekh Vibhag edits was solely due to issues such as incorrect information, dead links, or non-verifiable sources, all of which are against Wikipedia's guidelines. These edits were made to ensure the article adheres to Wikipedia's standards for reliable and verifiable content. Ram112313 (talk) 05:59, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello ChatGPT, we'll need Ram112313's own words. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 09:54, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

These are my own words. All I used is grammarly lol. Ram112313 (talk) 20:59, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Isles of Scilly edit war

86.184.52.46 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) and Uness232 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) are engaged in an edit war at Isles of Scilly about climate classification. There is ongoing discussion/argument on the talk page, but it hasn't stopped the constant reversions. DuncanHill (talk) 00:44, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Uness232 is adding claims that the Scilly Islands, Bordeaux and Istanbul are "sub tropical" without providing any sources or gaining consensus on the talk page first.

Trewartha's climate classification clearly states that marine locations have to be frost-free. I've provided sources for this.

None of Uness232's claimed 'subtropical' locations are frost-free. Suggesting Scilly Islands, Bordeaux and Istanbul are 'subtropical' also defies common sense - look at the climate data for these places in winter! They are not subtropical by any definition.

I'm happy to stop editing.

But please consider the article history and the nature of Uness232's claims carefully before you pass judgment.

Allowing unsourced claims that places are "subtropical" when they are clearly not makes Wikipedia look unreliable and untrustworthy. 86.184.52.46 (talk) 00:53, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Both editors have been partially blocked from the article for 31 hours for edit warring. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:56, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

I just wanted to chime in here to say that there are some serious bludgeoning issues as well in the discussion beneath the RFC, which doesn't seem to meet the neutrality requirements. I'm not really sure [210] this is productive discussion behavior, and the IP editor also seems to have strangely used ChatGPT to try and prove their point? [211]. I was browsing the RfCs in the history section, as I sometimes do, and I came upon the RFC and saw the strange discussion underneath. Brocade River Poems (She/They) 07:17, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your observations. I’d like to take this opportunity to refocus the discussion on the core issue at hand: the addition of contentious claims without reliable sources, particularly regarding the Isles of Scilly, Bordeaux, and Istanbul being "subtropical."

=== The Onus to Provide Reliable Sources ===

Per Wikipedia's Verifiability Policy (WP

), any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be supported by a reliable, published source. The claim that these locations are subtropical clearly falls into this category, as it has been disputed and does not align with widely accepted climate classifications. Therefore, the onus is on Unes232 to provide reliable sources that explicitly support this assertion before adding or reinstating it into the article.

=== Adherence to Established Climate Definitions ===

The Trewartha climate classification, which appears to be the framework at issue, has specific criteria. If sources (like those already provided) indicate that frost-free conditions are a requirement for a subtropical marine classification, any proposed subtropical designation must align with this criterion. Otherwise, it constitutes original research, which is prohibited under Wikipedia's No Original Research Policy (WP

).

=== Consensus and Edit Warring ===

Unes232’s additions should have been discussed on the talk page prior to being added to the article, as required by WP

. This ensures that claims are properly evaluated by multiple editors before becoming part of the mainspace. Instead, repeated unsourced edits have led to edit warring, which disrupts collaboration.

=== Maintaining Wikipedia’s Credibility ===

Allowing poorly sourced or unsourced claims to remain damages Wikipedia’s reputation as a reliable reference. Per WP

, climate-related claims must be sourced from peer-reviewed literature, expert publications, or other authoritative sources. None of the disputed claims meet this standard, and relying on "common sense" or vague reasoning does not substitute for verifiable evidence.

=== Addressing the RFC and Discussion Tone ===

While I understand concerns about the RFC’s neutrality or discussion behaviour, these issues are secondary to ensuring that the article adheres to Wikipedia's core content policies. As editors, we are all responsible for improving articles, which includes removing unsourced or poorly sourced material and focusing discussions on the policies and evidence at hand.

I respectfully suggest that we redirect efforts toward sourcing robust, verifiable evidence for any disputed claims. If no reliable source can be found, the material cannot remain in the article. This is not about “winning” an argument but upholding Wikipedia's standards and credibility. 86.184.52.46 (talk) 11:33, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

This is ANI, which is about editor conduct, not content. Also considering the fact that you used ChatGPT as a source, I kinda heavily suspect this is AI Generated... Brocade River Poems (She/They) 12:02, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your comment. While I appreciate your input, I’d like to refocus on the actual issues here: proper sourcing, adherence to Wikipedia policies, and the conduct surrounding these edits.

=== The Core Issue: Unsourced Material and Policy Violations ===

The main concern is that Unes232 has repeatedly added unsourced material to the article, claiming the Isles of Scilly, Bordeaux, and Istanbul are subtropical under Trewartha classification. These additions:

• Lack reliable sources.
• Contradict existing sourced material, which defines subtropical regions under Trewartha as requiring frost-free conditions.
• Constitute original research if derived from editor interpretation rather than explicitly published material.

Furthermore, repeatedly re-adding contentious material without building consensus on the talk page violates WP policies.

. This pattern disrupts collaboration and undermines Wikipedia’s credibility.

=== Personal Attack and False Allegation ===

Your accusation of "using ChatGPT as a source" is both false and unsubstantiated. It is inappropriate to suggest that an editor’s arguments are invalid based on unfounded claims about how they were generated. This amounts to a personal attack, which detracts from constructive discussion and violates Wikipedia’s principles of respectful collaboration. Please focus on addressing the arguments and evidence presented rather than speculating about motives or methods.

=== Editor Conduct and ANI ===

This discussion is indeed about editor conduct. In this case, the conduct at issue is not the IP editor’s but rather Unes232’s repeated addition of unsourced material and removal of sourced content. These actions go against core content policies and have directly caused the edit war. My actions have been focused on enforcing Wikipedia’s guidelines by removing unsourced claims and ensuring that disputed content is backed by verifiable evidence.

=== Moving Forward ===

To resolve this, we must ensure that all claims about the Isles of Scilly's climate are:

1. Based on reliable, verifiable sources.
2. Added only after reaching consensus on the talk page.
3. Evaluated against established policies.

I invite all editors to focus on these principles and avoid personal attacks or unfounded accusations. Wikipedia thrives on collaborative, policy-driven discussions, and adhering to these standards will help us improve the article constructively. 86.184.52.46 (talk) 13:14, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Please stop writing essays with ChatGPT. qcne (talk) 14:25, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

86.184, please consider this an only warning: If you continue posting LLM boilerplate here (or at the article talk page [212][213], or in any other discussion venue) in lieu of actually engaging with your fellow editors, I will impose a sitewide block. --Blablubbs (talk) 14:48, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Blablubbs more LLM boilerplate posted here. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, AirshipJungleman29. Blocked one week. --Blablubbs (talk) 18:24, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

User:Ustadeditor2011

Ustadeditor2011 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

This user is repeatedly disrupting content at All We Imagine as Light. Among other changes, they are continuously suppressing a limited theatrical release date that is supported by reliable sources and claiming the release never occurred, providing no sources to back their claim. I opened a talk page discussion for consensus-building and have repeatedly warned them against restoring their desired versions to the article. They have ignored all warnings and continued to edit the page back to their version. They initially reverted my reversion by claiming to be reverting vandalism when the edits are not vandalism. They were previously warned by Toddy1 about making such claims, as well as receiving many other warnings about disruptive behavior and attacking users. Their previous behavior prompted an AN discussion which resulted in a partial block.

I have warned them against edit warring on their talk page here, same here, here and here. I have also warned them against edit warring in my reversion here and repeatedly in discussion at Talk:All We Imagine as Light#Re: edits by Ustadeditor2011, to no avail. After a final user talk warning in which I very clearly appealed for them to utilise the talk page of the article to demonstrate that their claims are verifiable by way of being supported by reliable sources and I requested that they not change the article without getting consensus first, they balked and reinstated their preferred version for the fifth time. Jon698 once again reverted these edits. Οἶδα (talk) 06:26, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

@Οἶδα: If he/she is edit warring, it would be better to close this report and make a report at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring. Such a report would require diffs showing that they were repeatedly reverting other editor's edits. -- Toddy1 (talk) 07:06, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you @Toddy1: I did not report this user at the edit warring noticeboard because their four reverts were performed in a 1-day 19-hour period. I figured that it would not qualify as being "just outside" the 24-hour period as stated at WP:3RR. Οἶδα (talk) 17:51, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Both the above and Talk:All We Imagine as Light#Re: edits by Ustadeditor2011 suggested that your complaint was that he/she was edit-warring.

Ustadeditor2011 made an initial edit^[214] and four reverts^{[215][216][217][218]} on the issue of the Indian release date in the infobox between 16 and 19 November. Talk:All We Imagine as Light#India release date is clear evidence that in addition to making reverts, he/she has used the article talk page to discuss the issue with you and Jon698. My advice is that if he/she continues reverting over that issue, then go to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring. And if he/she does not, then the problem has solved itself.-- Toddy1 (talk) 20:16, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Concerns Over Negative Content on Bunq Article and Potential Promotion of N26

"There seems to be an ongoing edit war on the Bunq page, with new autoconfirmed editors such as @Snarkyalyx, @Partydoos, and @Partylix making frequent changes. Despite reverting there changes and explaining other stuff exists. These editors doesn't seem concerned. Pridemanty (talk) 10:06, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Notices which Pridemanty overlooked have been placed, including to Partlyx whose username is misspelt above. Cabayi (talk) 13:19, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

As I've mentioned to an admin, for the record:

There's weird editing behaviour happening and me and other editors do believe there are users being paid for editing. I removed what I believe was puffery and re-introduced a removed controversy section. After I did that, a new user "Partlyx" was created to seemingly cause confusion; that user seems to be a combination of my name and the username of the person who first introduced a controversies section under "Partydoos". User Pridemarty keeps edit warring, committing changes to the page instead of properly discussing it with others.

Pridemanty responding "While highlighting achievements is important, it shouldn’t cross into promotional language or create unwarranted hype, as seen with terms like ‘landmark’ or ‘innovative’ without proper context." is extremely weird because I was there to remove that while they reverted my changes. They clearly don't read what I said, nor the contents of my edits. I believe there's COI.

Imo, there's a few giveaways that the article is written by Bunq themselves like citing where an info comes from in the body text.

Pridemanty has ignored many warnings and different editors asking for a proper discussion in the talk page.

It's also good to look at the talk page that points out other suspicious things about Pridemanty.to highlight: Snarkyalyx (talk) 14:27, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

to add, the whole N26 thing entirely came from the suspected sock puppet account of Pridemanty Snarkyalyx (talk) 14:27, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

I would like to point out User talk:Partlyx where both Partlyx and Pridemanty wrote a comment in an unusual way, with "quotation marks" around the whole comment. I am completely unfamiliar with sockpuppet investigations and do not want to accuse anyone of sockpuppetry, but I wanted to mention this for others here. win8x (talk) 14:54, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

I've noticed this as well a few hours ago upon taking a glance at their user talk page. This compounds with the suspiciously close edit/revert times between 1258369954 (Partlyx) and the following 1258369979 (Pridemanty), only 20 seconds apart. With the usual latencies in MediaWiki (incl. watched page notifications), this seems too short to be organic. ElementW (talk) 15:05, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

• Pridemanty, can you link to the article you are talking about? And what is N26? You have named editors but haven't provided any context of diffs for other editors to review. You're not going to get a lot of response if you don't better explain what the problem is and provide examples of problematic editing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:16, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Liz The article is just Bunq. I'll leave the other questions to Pridemanty. win8x (talk) 03:18, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  Thank you, win8x, it looks like there has been a lot of edit-warring on this article today and now it is protected and editing is limited to extended-confirmed editors. This might serve to quiet things down for a while. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:37, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  One notable issue with this protection is that Pridemanty is an extended-confirmed user that has been engaging in continued warring, deleting a Talk-disputed "Controversies" section that was WP:QUO even after it was restored by another XC user on multiple occasions (1, 2-2). Considering their refusal to meaningfully engage in resolution on the talk page, this might not be sufficient. ElementW (talk) 13:19, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• I'm a bit confused as to the why the filer is stating that anyone here is directly promoting N26, which has had one revision (changing "Berlin, Germany" to "Berlin") since July. That feels like a bit of a stretch. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 15:23, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  I (and Snarkyalyx) highly suspect that now banned user Partlyx, who authored the only revision mentioning it, is a sockpuppet of Pridemanty, who would be trying to use the reference to N26 as a red herring to discredit the entire sequence of edits that led up to this. That seems like a reasonable explanation as to why they insist so much on it. ElementW (talk) 18:48, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  As I said above, I also believe this. I do not think Pridemanty was checked during Snarkyalyx's SPI investigation (Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Snarkyalyx, filed by Pridemanty), which is why it was inconclusive. Pinging @Izno as the CheckUser who investigated. win8x (talk) 20:43, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  No, I did not check the filer. Izno (talk) 20:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  Alright that's what I thought. Thanks, the comments by other users confused me. win8x (talk) 20:48, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  Thanks for the precision. Could it be possible to check them as well as this, from my perspective, is a retaliatory SPI, and if I understand WP:BOOMERANG correctly you should have checked them too. ElementW (talk) 21:15, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  That's not how I think it works. SPI investigations are something else, evidence is needed, and there was no evidence of socking by them. WP:BOOMERANG doesn't apply (at least that's what I think). win8x (talk) 21:17, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  I strongly suspect that WikiFirm WikiBusiness, is involved in adding controversies using multiple accounts. While a recent SPI (Sockpuppet Investigation) didn't reveal technical similarities, it’s highly likely they are employing advanced technical measures to avoid detection.Pridemanty (talk) 04:03, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  The very fact that you are the one insisting on the removal of sourced controversies and the re-introduction of clear puffery under the virtue of "WP:ATTACK" - Puffery like "landmark court case" which is text that only ever comes up on bunq's websites press section here; where some of the comments you have written also show up as 100% ChatGPT generated in detectors (although they may be unrelated), and as an extended user engaging in an edit war instead of properly discussing this (when I asked you to multiple times!) - now accusing me of "meat-puppetry" even though my friend never touched the actual article - I doubt I am the one being paid. Your primary goal has constantly been removing negative press, even if sourced according to WP:RS Snarkyalyx (talk) 10:02, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  I feel like I'm getting to be a parrot but I will, once again, reiterate that I have no idea who these other editors are and I'm only involved in this because I don't like it when editors attempt to white wash pages. Also: we're also all still waiting for a proper explanation as to why Pridemanty wants the entire controversy section removed. Constablequackers (talk) 12:00, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Reid Kennedy and probably competence problem

Reid Kennedy (talk · contribs) created autobio on their userpage twice, however, their contested on their talk page seemed all a mess. And they have showed an attitude of WP:IDHT and possible inclining of didn't want to comply with the rules of Wikipedia:Autobiography, I tried to invite them to WP:TH for help, but they replied with

Actually, less of any kind of academic question whatsoever.
This is well-researched, boldly presented, and thorough in its revelation of this young man's life and work.

-Lemonaka 11:40, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

We appear to have edited in response to this at two different pages Lemonaka. I added a level 3 warning which reflects where we're at in my opinion. I have little doubt that Reid Kennedy (talk · contribs) is rapidly heading towards a WP:NOTHERE block but not just yet. He may yet show the wisdom of the supreme court justice he claims to be. Cabayi (talk) 11:47, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Mm, took a swing at it myself on his talk page. We'll see how it goes. (sighs) Someday I'll figure out the motivation of those who are perpetually astonished that (a) rules exist, and (b) applies to Them!. Ravenswing 13:10, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

• I've indeffed the user. Ridiculous tripe and then combative about the propriety of the garbage he created.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:16, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes that was a spectacular load of garbage wasn't it. I just had to go and read it. Canterbury Tail talk 19:49, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Looks a little bit like Chat-gpt generated replies. Anyway, good block. -Lemonaka 05:27, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Would TPA revoking be warranted? The user's entire edit history, aside from the attempt to create that user page, was to try to argue one's way into making that page on the user's talk page. 172.56.235.58 (talk) 20:25, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

@172.56.235.58 no further edits, no action needed. -Lemonaka 03:19, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Violating the five pillars of Wikipedia

Dear administrators, I was redirected here from Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring by DatGuy.

Using repeated words against me like "dumb user", "trolling", "Complete nonsense" and "rude user", violates the fourth rule of the five pillars of Wikipedia.

I explained the editing of the article with these words: "SD does not meet the criteria. Tagging Adolphus79 who explained it here. The user has already been blocked from editing Yarden Gerbi due to continuous edit wars. His request to delete a video in commons was also declined."

The right step was to avoid edit warring. User:זור987 has not had ownership upon any article nor any Wikipedia. I am eligible to write any article I wish, which meets the criteria of that WP. Blaming me writing articles of any kind is also against the five pillars.

Dovno, who was a bureaucrat in the He WP, has already warned זור987 from editing Alex Fridman and Disabled, Not Half a Human Being in Hebrew, as shown here. Here I add that זור987 proposed "Disabled, Not Half a Human Being" for deletion in the En WP.
זור987 also put a notability template upon "Disabled, Not Half a Human Being" in the He WP, but was declined.

Erez Da Drezner meets the WP:NMODEL #1 and #2 criteria. The article describes visits of Da Drezner in two different hospitals in Ukraine, and his other deeds. The article also was written in February 5, 2021 and has not to be speedy deleted in 2024.

Therefore, I ask to block זור987, or at least block him from editing this article and its talk page. Thank you, --DgwTalk 13:20, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

User:Dorian Gray Wild, tracking, stalking and rude to me all over the Wiki. Every edit that I doing on his articles, resulting in his revertings and now, he treating me with blocking about legitimate things that I've done in the Hebrew Wikipedia.

I think that someone needs to ask in Wikimedia to globally block this user. זור987 (talk) 13:43, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

OK so this is *not* the appropriate venue to discuss edit conflicts on Hebrew Wikipedia. The only thing I'll note is that this AfD looks malformed. I'd suggest going and fixing it so that it's properly indexed. Simonm223 (talk) 14:11, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

I have fixed the AfD nomination but have not investigated its merits. TSventon (talk) 14:43, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi Simonm223, the words "a dumb user", "trolling", "Complete nonsense" and "This rude user" as well as "rude to me" were written by זור987 in the En WP, not in the He WP.

I was not rude to זור987, as I did not use any incorrect word.

I did not stalk anybody. FastilyBot notified me the speedy deletion, which was not legal as indicated here.

זור987's thought that "someone needs to ask in Wikimedia to globally block this user" is not legal neither, because he did not notify my talk page. DgwTalk 14:47, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

A 2-way i-ban might be a good remedy here. Simonm223 (talk) 15:20, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

User:זור987 needs to provide evidence (from enwiki) of his claims here to see if there is anything sanctionable in User:Dorian Gray Wild's edits. But the reverse is obvious, User:זור987 needs at the very least a strong warning, for things like this edit summary (they aren't supposed to reinstate a Prod tag either, but that's just something that needs explaining). And looking at the editor interactions on enwiki[219], there are only two articles where they have both edited, and in both cases the articles were created by Dorian Gray Wild and he was followed there by זור987. So it looks like זור987's claims that Dorian is "tracking, stalking and rude to me all over the Wiki." is (at least on enwiki) a rather blatant attempt to reverse reality. No two-way interaction ban is warranted here, the behaviour of only one participant is a real issue apparently. Fram (talk) 09:35, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Dorian Gray Wild have a history in the Hebrew Wikipedia of being rude, threatening, stalking and tracking users including me. Hence he is blocked permanently there, including his talk page. Matanya even globally blocked him.

After the user managed to dodge his global locking, he continued to stalk and track me even here, including Erez Da Drezner, where he tried to cancel the purposed deletion of it, by removing the template. Since he have no any administrator right to do so, I reverted his action. He generally have a tendency to write article about the disability in Israel, including persons and organizations which mostly don't have any encyclopedic importance outside the Hebrew Wikipedia. In the case of Erez Da Drezner, this person don't have an article in the Hebrew Wikipedia and have no important achievements, and because of this, I think Dorian should be globally blocked once again. Unfortunately, Matanya is no longer a dale in Wikimedia, and there are no other Hebrew speaking dales in Wikimedia, which can help me. זור987 (talk) 11:14, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

"he continued to stalk and track me even here, including Erez Da Drezner": you are quite liberal with the truth here. He created that article, and you are the one that "stalked and tracked" them on enwiki (in both articles where you both edited). Every editor has the right to remove a Proposed deletion, you don't need to be an admin to do so, and no one may normally reinstate it. We will not locally block anyone for writing a perfectly normal about a person who doesn't have a Hebrew Wikipedia article and may or may not be really notable, nor for being stalked and insulted by you, and not even for being blocked on Hebrew Wikipedia. Admins here may block you though, for stalking, insulting, and trying to place the blame for this on someone else even when this is pointed out to you. Fram (talk) 11:31, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

There are tons of things in the English Wikipedia which I don't know about them, because they are false in the Hebrew Wikipedia. זור987 (talk) 17:48, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you Fram for your words.

זור987 stalked me everywhere, and followed an AfD in the It WP. They claimed that "Disabled, Not Half a Human Being" was not exist in Italian. Afterwards, he changed "Disabled, Not Half a Human Being" into "נכה, לא חצי בן אדם" in the En WP. How could the English reader read the words "נכה, לא חצי בן אדם" in the middle of the En article? זור987 could put a ref, stating that it was not an official name in English. It really does not matter anyone. Let us read an article about a Brazilian organization whose name is Brazilian Association for Self-Defense. Is it the official name in English? No source supports it.

Furthermore, the article said clearly that it was a slogan. How could זור987 claim "No official names for Alex Fridman association in other languages" for a slogan? It is almost vandalism.

I ask the administrators to block זור987 from any interaction with articles which I created. If זור987 sees something which bothers him, he may consult another editor, and that editor will think about it. --DgwTalk 22:41, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Propose one-way Interaction Ban between זור987 and Dorian Gray Wild

It is clear that זור987 has been stalking Dorian Gray Wild on enwiki, and to make matters worse claims the eaxct opposite in the face of all the evidence. While only enwiki behaviour is really important for an enwiki sanction, it does look like they have been following Dorian Gray Wild to other sister projects as well[220]. Coupled with the blatant personal attacks, I see no reason to let זור987 continue to make any edits related to Dorian Gray Wild or the articles Dorian has edited. As Dorian Gray Wild has done nothing wrong towards זור987, there is no reason to make this a two-way ban, but obviously it would be best if they leave זור987 alone on enwiki. Fram (talk) 09:08, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Lingayat Vani

Report against: User:PerspicazHistorian article: Lingayat Vani

@Daniel Case, Bradv, Vanamonde93, Ekdalian, and Bobby Cohn:

The user created two article for same topic he is not a good faith editor please check below, how he manipulated Lingayat related article, he was blocked multiple times for his edit war, he is accusing other editors who removed his content as vandals,

• Draft:Lingayat Vani (caste) this article was created on 23 May 2024 by him, it was rejected by User:Bobby Cohn on 4 September 2024.

• The user created another article about same topic Lingayat Vani on 10 July 2024.

The Lingayat Vani is still not reviewed but it is indexed on search engine.

He created this article by adding some bullshit to his previous draft , from other unrelated article content, so that his Lingayat Vani article will become a well cited article, so he can promote his Hindutva agenda by calling other editors as Vandals .😂

I will give you some examples why the article is not related to Lingayat Vani

Infobox

• heraldic_title:Appa, Rao, Desai Both ref doesn't mentiones such titles
• population: 8.5 to 10 Million in Maharashtra the ref is about estimated total Lingayats in Maharashtra, if total Lingayats in Maharashtra is 8.5 to 10 Million than how can the subcaste also have same population ?

Lead

The Lingayat Vani community (marathi: लिंगायत वाणी) is an Indo-Aryan ethnolinguistic group who are native to Maharashtra in western India. They belong to Veershaiv sect of Hindu Shaivism and are also referred to as Veershaiv-Lingayat Vanik or Lingayat Balija or Vira Banajiga or Bir Vanigas. The name Vani is derived from the Sanskrit word 'Vanijya' which means trade.The Vira Banajigas were a trading caste. His own doctoral thesis WP:NOR

They rejected the custodial hold of Brahmins over Vedas and shastras but did not outright reject the Vedic knowledge. They worship all gods and believe them to be a form of Shiva only. The 13th-century Telugu Virashaiva poet Palkuriki Somanatha, the author of the scripture of Lingayatism, for example asserted, "Virashaivism fully conformed to the Vedas and the shastras." He copied this content from Lingayatism#Vedas and shastras without attribution, WP:ATTREQ

• Shiva article mentions history, mythology etc... can we copy Shiva article into every Temples articles of Shiva, does it make any sense?,
• Indian constitution is applicable to every place of India, can we copy Indian constitution into every state , district, city, villeges articles of India, because they follow same constitution. does it make any sense?
• The same logic applies here also no need this paragraph. It is not exclusive for Lingayat vani, Lingayat vani is just sub caste of Lingayatism

Origin

Starting in the thirteenth century, inscriptions referring to "Vira Balanjyas" (warrior merchants) started appearing in the Andhra country. The Vira Balanjyas represented long-distance trading networks that employed fighters to protect their warehouses and goods in transit.

These traders formed collectives called pekkandru and differentiated themselves from other collectives called nagaram, which probably represented Komati merchants. The pekkandru collectives also included members of other communities with status titles Reddy, Boya and Nayaka.

• The above content is copied from Balija#Origins,
• how it is related to Lingayat Vani, why he added it into lingayat vani.

The Five Hundred guild, known as Ayyavole in Kannada, Ayyavolu in Telugu, Aryarupa in Sanskrit operated in Southern India and Southeast Asia. They became more powerful under the Cholas. They were protectors of the Veera-Banaju-Dharma, that is, law of the heroic or noble merchants. The Bull was their symbol which they displayed on their flag; and they had a reputation for being daring and enterprising.

• The above content is copied from Five Hundred Lords of Ayyavolu lead section 2nd paragraph,
• how it is relevant to Lingayat Vani? Why he added random content to Lingayat Vani

A rock shaped like an axe on the Malaprabha river bank north of the Aihole village in karnataka is associated with the legend of Parashurama, the sixth Vishnu avatar, who is said to have washed his axe here after killing abusive Kshatriyas who were exploiting their military powers, giving the land its red colour. A 19th-century local tradition believed that rock footprints in the river were those of Parashurama.

• This above content is copy from Aihole#History second paragraph.
• how it is relevant to Lingayat Vani? Why he added random content to Lingayat Vani

Varna Status

The Vira Banajigas were a trading community. Historians like Velcheru Narayana Rao and Sanjay Subrahmanyam noted that the emergence of this right-hand caste as trader-warrior-kings in the Nayaka period is a consequence of conditions of new wealth produced by collapsing two varnas, Kshatriya and Vaishya into one.

• The above contact is copied from Balija#Varna status
• how it is relevant to Lingayat Vani? Why he added random content to Lingayat Vani

After being placed in the shudra category in the 1881 census, Veershaivas demanded a higher caste status. Lingayats persisted in their claims for decades. In 1926, the Bombay High Court ruled that "the Veerashaivas are not Shudras."

• copy from second paragraph of Lingayatism#Varna-status debates (19th–20th century)

RI ^talk 17:44, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Sources

What admin action are you looking for here? The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 17:59, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm sorry, just want to clarify, are you saying that this editor is a sock-puppet of a blocked editor? Because most of this is just suggesting that Lingayat Vani should face and AfD for pervasive WP:SYNTH issues. Simonm223 (talk) 18:02, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Appears to be a sock, now blocked. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:09, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

1)The article clearly talks about Lingayat Vani community. I don't know how it is "hindutva agenda". I there is personal commentary going on then @RationalIndia is promoting his "communist" agenda.

2) If there is any error in the article, it should be discussed in the talk page and if necessary justifiably edited, rather than abruptly deleting the whole article.

3)If I stop a person from pushing his POV on a debatable topic, what's wrong in it.

4)The article contains many other information that do not exist on any wiki page and is pure research.

4)Those information copied from other wiki pages are just brief on that topic not the whole thing copy pasted.

5)"Lingayat Vani" is a legitimate topic that cannot be included in "lingayatism" article as they represent more than just "lingayats".

6) The user @RationalIndia has edited many articles relating to "lingayats" and pushing his POV everywhere despite the topic being still under debate in India. He also engaged in edit war by repeatedly deleting the whole Veerashaiva page and redirecting it to "lingayatism" despite it still being under debate between various scholars whether both are same or not. https://www.wionews.com/india-news/difference-between-veerashaivas-and-lingayats-36608

7)This is to clarify to all the administrators having their attention on the topic that I am a good faith editor, actively making Wikipedia a better experience. I look forward to coordinate in any manner to make the article Lingayat Vani better and useful for the readers.

8)Kindly also look into the issue of Veerashaiva redirects. The page needs to be brought back to avoid POV pushed by an editor by deleting an article which has been there since 2004.

Thank You to all respected Administrators. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 18:58, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

@RationalIndiaThe paragraphs mentioned by you here are old version of the article. Every topic is well researched in the article. Most of the content were edited after discussion on the talk page of Lingayat Vani. They why putting it in noticeboard wasting time of administrators just to prove your point? PerspicazHistorian (talk) 19:09, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

@PerspicazHistorian: Hi, RationalIndia cannot respond to you because they've been blocked by Ponyo as a sockpuppet. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 19:14, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @Pickersgill-Cunliffe @Ponyo @Bradv , Wikipedia needs active administrators like you all. I appreciate that. Thank You ! PerspicazHistorian (talk) 19:23, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Sockpuppets never seem to learn that they shouldn't post complaints on noticeboards. It's like putting your face on a billboard on a busy highway. You're going to be scrutinized. But it seems to happen over and over again on ANI. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:56, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I seem to be getting unnecessary emails and pings. While I don't pretend to have an understanding of limiting talk page access and don't mind the pings as they're on-wiki, surely there's no need to be emailing me about this issue? Bobby Cohn (talk) 13:58, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Talk page abuse: User:DARealMrBeast

User:DARealMrBeast is abusing their talk page after block. See Special:Diff/1258455487 and Special:Diff/1258455951. --Leonidlednev (T, C, L) 21:00, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

 Done Floquenbeam (talk) 21:06, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

EX Centre from Star Avenue 2018

EX Centre from Star Avenue 2018 (talk · contribs · count) uploaded a number of low quality images on Commons. When a DR (Commons' version of FfD) was opened for those files, the user started replacing currently in use files on this and other projects with their [lower quality/less relevant] ones, then suggesting the files they just removed be deleted instead of their own uploads. We take a dim view of that on Commons and Yann, a fellow Commons admin, blocked them on that project for two weeks, but since a lot of the recent edits are here, I figured I'd let the admins here know and let y'all decide if it warrants a block here as well. Cheers, The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 21:23, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Revoke talk page access for Clioos

Clioos (talk · contribs · count) has been making disruptived edits at their talk page, including insults and posting a fake approved unblock request. TornadoLGS (talk) 01:49, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

 Done. PhilKnight (talk) 01:52, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Creation of (apparent) hoaxes about Indian politics

An SPI was opened into the conduct of RAGULVARMA PRABHU (talk · contribs · count · logs · block log · lu · rfa · rfb · arb · rfc · lta · socks), who was using several accounts to create hoaxes about Indian politicians, but it was closed with no action taken, since the accounts were used sequentially, and were not used for block evasion. I come here instead of SPI because no blocks have been issued toward any of the accounts, meaning that there still is technically no violation of the policy, despite the continuing use of even more accounts (see Special:Contributions/RMD1999) to create more hoax articles and drafts. JJP_Master (she/they) 02:45, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, JJP, can you link to any of these "hoax articles"? You haven't provided much here to investigate. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:20, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

@Liz: Sorry for the oversight, here are some examples:

• Draft:P.RAGULVARMA
• Rmr. Ragulvarma (currently at AfD)
• Draft:RAGULVARMA PRABHU (G3'd)
• Draft:RAGULVARMA PMK
• User:RMR2004/sandbox (G3'd)
• DEEPA RAGULVARMA (A7'd)
• PMK RAGULVARMA (A10'd)

One recurring theme is that the articles usually transclude a section from Gummidipoondi Assembly constituency showing real election results, that do not include the people the articles are about as candidates. JJP_Master (she/they) 03:26, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, JJP, this helps a lot. When I get time tonight, I'll look through the deleted ones. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:38, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Note: RMD1999 (talk · contribs · count · logs · block log · lu · rfa · rfb · arb · rfc · lta · socks) has now begun to rapidly submit drafts that are copy-pastes of articles about real Indian politicians. JJP_Master (she/they) 04:42, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

As the original SPI filer I would not say these are clear and not just apparent hoaxes. The content is has based on other actual politicians, they keep claiming to be part of the fictitious "DIRACTOR OF MINISTRY" and the images are AI hoaxes. File:RAGULVARMA PRABHU.png and File:RAGULVARMA PRABHU.jpg have been flagged as obvious fakes over on commons (edit:just been deleted). Lastly not a single source in any of the hoaxes I've reviewed has even mentioned the subject. KylieTastic (talk) 12:19, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Other example hoaxes: Draft:P RAGULVARMA, Draft:RMR RAGULVARMA, Draft:PMK RAGULVARMA, User:RMD1999/sandbox KylieTastic (talk) 12:27, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

They have just created yet another hoax article Ragulvarma Prabhu M.K. KylieTastic (talk) 11:27, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Gwillhickers spouting COVID vaccine conspiracism

Gwillhickers (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is making disruptive conspiratorial arguments against COVID vaccines at Talk:Robert F. Kennedy Jr.#Substituting one conspiracy theory for another?. They either need to agree to respect WP:IDHT and desist, or otherwise be topic banned from the topic of COVID vaccines. Hemiauchenia (talk) 03:57, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

They have previously been warned about incivility at ANI, see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1131#Incivility from Gwillhickers Hemiauchenia (talk) 04:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I have been distinctly reminded of something similar happening with another long-term editor way in the past. I annoyingly can't remember the name, something like wikiencyclopediaman? But they went full conspiracy as well and doubled down in the ANI thread about it. Silverseren^C 04:04, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Silver seren, perhaps you are thinking of User:Wikid77, an editor who took advantage for years of the open door policy at User talk:Jimbo Wales, where they made over 2000 posts that descended deeper and deeper into overt racism with little if any pushback from Jimbo Wales. It finally reached a breaking point and I indefinitely blocked that racist troll in 2018. Cullen328 (talk) 09:12, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Gwillhickers often pushes fringe views but I've never seen them not back down once it becomes clear that consensus is against them. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 04:17, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

AI-generated articles by Tatar Russian

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

• Tatar Russian (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Tatar Russian has created eight drafts that were accepted and moved to mainspace:

• Mongol Conquest of the Caucasus
• Mongol invasion of the lands of the Abaza and Circassians
• Arab invasion of Abasgia
• Timur's invasion of Circassia and Abazgia
• Battle of Kyzburun
• Circassian feudal wars
• Circassian expeditions in Astrakhan
• Military campaigns of Temryuk Idar

They have also created ten pages that are still in draftspace:

• Draft:Battle of Pecherniki Oak Forests
• Draft:Crimean-Circassian War (1558–1561)
• Draft:Great War against the Crimean Expansion
• Draft:Timur's campaign against the Abaza and Circassians
• Draft:Northern Caucasus Policy of the Crimean Khanate
• Draft:Battle of Farce (1841)
• Draft:Dagestani campaign against Kabardia
• Draft:Circassian-Kumyk Wars
• Draft:Karcha's Movement
• Draft:Circassian raids on Karachai and Balkars

These all appear to have been AI-generated, and beyond the tone issues, I think they may be factually incorrect. The citations are mostly in Cyrillic, which makes them hard to verify, but the few non-Cyrillic citations seem to be mostly hallucinated. For example, Mongol Conquest of the Caucasus cites:

• Ibragimov, I.G. (2011). "Aguls' Struggle with Tatar-Mongol Invaders in the First Half of the XIII Century". North Caucasus Regional Studies. 3: 35–36. I couldn't find any indication online that either the author or the journal exists.
• Gutnov, F.Kh. (2010). Mongolian Campaigns to the North Caucasus. Vol. 6. Кавказский сборник. p. 32. At least the author does seem to exist, but the article does not, and Кавказский сборник was published from 1876 to 1912.
• Rubruk, William of (1957). "Journey to the Eastern Countries". Publications of the Academy of Sciences. Moscow: 88–95. This is just impossible – William of Rubruk died several centuries ago.

Given this, I think we should presume that the harder-to-verify parts are also hallucinated. jlwoodwa (talk) 04:28, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

These should all just be deleted, and the creator blocked for AI abuse. Hemiauchenia (talk) 04:31, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

This remind me of a previous banned user. PlanespotterA320 (talk · contribs), and their username alerted me. Is there anyone who want to done a check? -Lemonaka 05:29, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

@Blablubbs@Tamzin Since who may be familiar with the banned one. -Lemonaka 05:33, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Maybe we should ping the AFC reviewers who okayed these articles and get their opinions. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:17, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Good idea. @Robert McClenon, Memer15151, and Ratnahastin: Please see above. jlwoodwa (talk) 06:33, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I apologize for the misunderstanding, I accidentally brought the wrong literature. It won't happen again Tatar Russian (talk) 09:51, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Genuinely curious about what you mean by "wrong literature" – do these works actually exist somewhere? Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 11:00, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, in the Russian archives Tatar Russian (talk) 12:03, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Do you have a link to any of the three sources mentioned above? Not necessarily the full text, just a mention of the publications in the relevant journals would be enough to confirm that they exist. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 12:47, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

see what the joke is, I have reliable sources, why should my articles be deleted and then block me? I follow the rules of Wikipedia and I didn't break anything Tatar Russian (talk) 12:17, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Vandalism at Battle of Yultong

Request block of IPs and page protection due to persistent vandalism: [221], [222] and [223]. thanks Mztourist (talk) 07:44, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

 Done Since it was rotating IP accounts, I've semi-protected this article for two weeks. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 08:41, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! Mztourist (talk) 10:20, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Ethiopian Epic Refusal to Discuss Edits

I posted a thread earlier about @user:Ethiopian Epic [224]. It was then decided that nothing wrong was done yet. Now EE has started an edit war and refuses to use the talk page, despite being requested multiple times by myself. Ethiopian Epic claims their edits were explained in the edit summaries. However, the summaries are vague[225], or don't apply[226]. Parts of the revert was part of an earlier dispute with another user, and goes against the sources. Most of the reverts I just don't understand. I have been researching the topic and there are different views expressed by different sources, and I am still trying to figure out which the current scholarship is.

I posted a warning about edit warring on EE's talk page[227]. EE responded with a warning on my page.[228] EE also received a warning from @user:Hemiauchenia [229]. EE's edits on Samurai continue to be much larger than any other edit EE has made. Most of EE's other edits were reverted by other users.[230] Tinynanorobots (talk) 09:55, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I can't help thinking this is connected to our latest CTOP area although their edits so far have been disconnected enough I'm not comfortable giving them an alert. Nil Einne (talk) 12:26, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I suspect there might be a connection, but without better evidence, I suggest handling it as if Ethiopian Epic is a new user who doesn't understand how things work. I don't know how to collaborate with an editor who refuses to use the talk page and thinks two word edit summaries are enough explanation for large reverts. Tinynanorobots (talk) 13:40, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I have invited them to come discuss their edits on ANI. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:09, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Promotional editing and IDHT

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

I would like to bring the behavior of User:Sarim Wani to the attention of administrators for review. This user, who has been editing for only three months, has been repeatedly disregarding community advice and attempting to apply his monopoly over several topics. Despite advice from numerous editors, including administrators, he continues to stick on certain subjects, and tries to give a justification. Notably, the article about "Mission Swaraj," a term popularised by YouTuber Dhruv Rathee.

• Key Concerns:

1. Disregard for Advice: Despite receiving detailed and valuable advice from experienced editors, including DoubleGrazing, who took significant time to guide him about notability criteria and proper article creation, he continues to disregard him. For example: WP:Teahouse participants advised him to create a subsection on Dhruv Rathee's page instead of creating a standalone article, as the topic lacks independent reliable sources (infact the subject doesn't have even one reliable source). Despite thanking DoubleGrazing for their guidance, he continues trying creating standalone content on "Mission Swaraj" (which literally doesn't have even one independent, reliable source). Here's the link to the Teahouse discussion where this was addressed, it is with the Topic named "Promotional Material in Mission Swaraj" at the bottom.

2. Promotional Content: The user's drafts and articles frequently contain promotional material, which violates Wikipedia's policy against promotional editing and he has been told about this several times but continues to do so and that is why is suspected of using Chat Bots for article creation. This can be seen here and in his userpage and talk page, the use of non-independent sources like YouTube videos (from the same channel), Twitter, and other unreliable platforms. A complete absence of independent, reliable sources as required by notability guidelines of Wikipedia.

3. Behavioral Patterns: The user has repeatedly shown attempts to bypass the advice of senior editors and AfC reviewers. Reluctance to adhere to Wikipedia's guidelines on reliable sourcing and content neutrality.

It is to be noted that his account is only 3 months old. I request administrators to review his account, edits and drafts thoroughly and evaluate the user's behavior, including the suspected misuse of chatbots. Take appropriate action, including blocking the account (if necessary) to prevent further disruption. I believe this step is necessary to give him a lesson on Wikipedia's standards of neutrality and reliability and listening to the considerations of experienced editors seriously. Thank you Regards AstuteFlicker (talk) 14:11, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

His user page is terrible! Secretlondon (talk) 14:20, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Watching on from a distance, I found their communication at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2024 November 17 and Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2024 November 19 to be both poorly constructed and disruptive to reaching a consensus, in that it was veering into bludgeoning territory. There's a lot of very good advice on their user talk page from experienced editors ("How deletion discussions work", "Your User page", "Advice on article creation"), but I'm not sure it's being taken on board and put into action. Daniel (talk) 14:47, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi @AstuteFlicker deeply sorry for the trouble caused I will keep going to the deletion review pannel if I think my article was not judged properly I will clarify that I do use chat bots (i.e chat gpt and stuff) but that is to not have word mistakes as I am diagnosed with Dysgraphia I would further like to say id my account is 3 months old you're is only barley 1 while I have contributed to wiki a lot (it is mainly on controversial topic because I like "debates" i.e improves my debating skills) and as regards to my "Promotional Content" thing I have gone to "Teahouse" to go and get advice and also try to fix it ( some helpful editors are also helping me in my talk page)

to try and fix it it is also to say I have been regarded as using an "promotional tone" not "Promotional Content" both are very different as one user said "Overturn G11, send to AfD. Definitely promotional in tone (and non-encyclopedic) but I don’t think it could be described as unambiguous advertising." I rest my case (and I have used YouTube and x not as "sources" but as proofs that the user said that thing) Sarim Wani (talk) 14:51, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

please note the following user was blocked for "Repeated promotional editing, likely UPE" (and likely holds a grudge to me for following the rules) Main public logs - Wikipedia Sarim Wani (talk) 14:59, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

and upon pasting his "query" on quillbot.com comes with 68% of text is likely AI-generated (don't believe be see for you're self!) Sarim Wani (talk) 15:01, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I instantly thought it was LLM-generated too, however when I looked into it, their complaint has some merit — which is the most important thing. Further, I'd rather it be AI-generated than similar to the garbled comments you're currently putting forward at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2024 November 17. Rather than deflecting onto the reporting editor (leave that for others to do), please reflect on your own conduct. Daniel (talk) 15:06, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

FWIW, I just scanned the initial complaint. ZeroGPT and Quillbot both said zero percent AI. IMO while there's passages that look suspicious, it also includes a bunch of idiosyncratic errors, and details that an LLM would not have been able to quickly infer from being asked to concoct a case against someone, so I'm inclined to trust the 0% results. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 15:08, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Interesting, thanks for that. Similar to Departure– below, the structure was what made me instantly think of it. But, regardless, per my last reply, I don't really care either way — there is substance to their complaint and it should be handled on that basis, not dismissed as Sarim Wani was attempting to do so on that basis. Daniel (talk) 15:12, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I've got no comment on the substance of this ANI report, but I will state from a glance this is blatantly in line with the AI structure, especially the bolded "Key Concerns" and the bulleted but improperly indented examples. The bold requests for administrators to review and then the generic list of administrator actions did it for me. Anyway, it may be time to get a formal LLM-in-talkspace policy because this is the second time this week on ANI. Departure– (talk) 15:09, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• The failure to take on board concerns from the prior ANI complaint and Liz's notice on their talk page makes me concerned that we may have reached the end of the available rope here. Sarim Wani, unless you make a serious effort to hear and address the concerns that editors have raised, starting with removing WP:BATTLEGROUND content from your user page, you are heading towards being blocked. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 15:01, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  Agreed "any man is not perfect" ~ unknown I will see to it right away Sarim Wani (talk) 15:05, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Rosguill please re-review my talk page Sarim Wani (talk) 15:13, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  It's clear that you are responding very quickly right now and have not understood what has been asked of you. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 15:22, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  I meant user page* Sarim Wani (talk) 15:23, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Rosguill (as I said prevously I am dignosed with Dysgraphia ) I mean to say smt else and type smt else (this is only sometimes) but still enough times to be anyoying (sorry :) ) Sarim Wani (talk) 15:25, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  The issue here isn't dysgraphia, it's that your user page still reads like a screed against other editors. You've addressed some of it, which is a step in the right direction, but it's not evident that you actually understand what the problem is beyond just reflexively doing what you think I'm telling you to do. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 15:32, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  • Thats the point... (edited)

  Sarim Wani (talk) 15:33, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  • Clarify I intend to document every debate I will have that's why I add it in my user page I have still added a waring for it

  Sarim Wani (talk) 15:38, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  Maybe it's just me, and maybe it's none of my business, but I find it oddly unsettling that you keep on your user page a running log of every fight debate you're engaged in, especially when that involves naming specific individuals. I don't know if that's against any particular policy, but I don't think it's exactly collegial, either. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:27, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• I would contend that extensive use of Chat GPT - potentially for article copy - meets WP:NOTHERE on its own. Enough rope has probably been extended. Simonm223 (talk) 15:07, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  • Clarify I only use chat gpt for word mistake (like Grammarly but fast and free)

  Sarim Wani (talk) 15:11, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  "Despite thanking DoubleGrazing for their guidance, he continues trying creating standalone.... @AstuteFlicker I will further clarify that I am not extended conformed user and I will consider doing that when I am extended conformed (that is why I disregared the advise) Sarim Wani (talk) 15:20, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  Are you referring to the filer when you describe extensive use of Chat GPT, or to the respondent? — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 15:24, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  no I meant @AstuteFlicker statement Sarim Wani (talk) 15:26, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  I'm referring to the respondent - who has admitted to using ChatGPT. While the filer's reporting structure seems somewhat artificial I don't personally have any certainty that it isn't human-generated. That being said I concur with @Departure– that we need a formal policy controlling the use of "AI" text generation tools. Preferably with significant restriction. Simonm223 (talk) 15:32, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Simonm223

  • Clarifying again I only use chat gpt for word mistake (like Grammarly but fast and free)

  (please note if you think I am bulldozing sorry I am not I am just answering and clarifying) Sarim Wani (talk) 15:41, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

@AstuteFlicker: Your entire post reeks of AI, something you've admitted to using in the past. WP:POTKETTLE much? OXYLYPSE (talk) 15:44, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Question Can I file an reverse complaint?

Sarim Wani (talk) 15:50, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

well this uno reversed very quick Sarim Wani (talk) 15:51, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

The term used on Wikipedia is "boomerang". Departure– (talk) 15:57, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

can I "technically" create an article on uno reverse? Sarim Wani (talk) 16:04, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

It probably doesn't need an article, but might be worthy of mention on Uno (card game). Let's not derail this ANI any further. Departure– (talk) 16:06, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

@Departure– You are not an administrator to decide this. If the issue has been escalated to WP:ANI then there must be some reason. Let the administrators do their job and you do yours.. AstuteFlicker (talk) 16:43, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm not an administrator and don't claim to be one. I'm just participating in clue building and making an effort to stay on topic, but if you'd rather I disengage from this ANI, I will. Cheers! Departure– (talk) 17:00, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Much appreciated. Thanks.. AstuteFlicker (talk) 17:12, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Just to clear out things as the user Sarim Wani is trying to divert admin's attention from the main issue to me using Chat Bot to write this appeal. Let me clear it Loudly, I haven't used any Chat Bot to write this appeal the appeal is written entirely by my self. OXYLYPSE Yes, I have admitted that I used to use ChatBot to write in talk pages but never in the Article Space like this user does and I have clearly mentioned it there and would like you to read it also. I don't want to play a blame game here. I would like you to read all the conversation when I was blocked it's available intact in my talk page. Additionally, I would like you to read the section November 2024 on my talk page and match the grammar I have used their and I have used here in this appeal. An admin whom I am very thankful and who really helped me then was Valereee you can read the conversation in the same section where I had promised him/her that I won't use it anymore even though I was using it only in talk pages conversation. I would respectfully like to request you that if you are referring to those conversations then please read the full conversation and also match the grammar used.

Once Again, I would like to respectfully request the administrators to not to get diverted and review his account and take necessary action (if necessary). It's not that I have to take some personal vengeance from him, I don't even knew him before. Hopefully, after this I don't have to give any justifications as I believe the admins are much more knowledgeable and will do what will be necessary.

Sincerely Thanking You

Regards AstuteFlicker (talk) 16:31, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

The main issue escalated to the WP:ANI wasn't just the use of ChatBots by this user. I would like to request the administrators to review my concern again. AstuteFlicker (talk) 16:40, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I would like to reply to @AstuteFlicker by fist stating that no I am not trying to divert but mention and all the problems he mentioned I have fixed/Struk down. Sarim Wani (talk) 16:55, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

@Sarim Wani I ain't someone to decide this. There are much more experienced editors and this is a forum of such editors. So, they are the one to decide that what's necessary to do and they are doing it without any doubt. I have done my Job on my part and now they will be handling their part. I had to clear out my side of the story that's why I jumped in or else I hadn't even wrote anything after writing the concern. AstuteFlicker (talk) 17:10, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Please note if anyone has some more doubts about me (I consider all pervious doubts cleared) please mention them and ping me in the next 24 hours if no doubts are there in the next 24 hours I request for an indepent actor to end debate. I ask to rename this debate title as it is very inappropriate and also ask the user who raised this complaint to be banned for blantant use of AI tools like chat gpt

thankyou. Best regards--> Sarim Wani (talk) 16:21, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Section renamed. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:51, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment - This editor has already been partially blocked from one AFD for bludgeoning. They currently have two Deletion Reviews open. The first one is for an article that was deleted after another AFD which they also bludgeoned, and they are now bludgeoning the DRV. The second DRV is for a puff piece on a non-notable organization, which was deleted as G11. They say that it was deleted without discussion; that's how speedy deletion works. The debate at that DRV is whether to restore it and send it to AFD, where it will be deleted, or whether to endorse the G11 as Ignore All Rules because it will never make it through AFD. Unfortunately, I think that this is an editor who wastes the time of the community. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:24, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  Ok, this diff seals it. The combination of confrontational behavior and CIR is clearly not improving. Blocking. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 17:31, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  This may have been in reference to the header, that was changed in this edit. Regardless, I think it's a good block overall given the general disruption going on literally everywhere this editor goes. Daniel (talk) 17:55, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  Yes, I was familiar with the original title and wasn't so much outraged by that as by the mere fact that they still thought it would be appropriated to note this dispute and name other participants on their user page while this discussion was underway (and the general trail of chaos without remediating qualities that you describe as well). _signed, Rosguill ^talk 18:17, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:GAMERBOY102 is trying to game Today's Featured Article Process

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

• GAMERBOY102 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

I am not familiar with the Today's Featured Article process, but it should be a matter of common sense that an editor should not try to game the process after they have already received a warning about gaming the process. Common sense would also indicate that only Featured Articles are eligible for this display. On 10 November 2024, GAMERBOY102 made an entry in the TFA queue to display Gateway Mall (Quezon City) as the featured article on 1 January 2025. That was nominated for MFD at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Today's featured article/January 1, 2025. Other editors cautioned them not to game the process. The MFD was closed as Delete on 17 November 2024, and should have been a warning.

A review of their user talk page shows that they have been repeatedly warned by User:Ohnoitsjamie for adding vertical headers. A review of their talk page also shows that they asked why they were blocked on Commons, which was for out-of-scope editing. I cautioned them that further experimentation or testing on the English Wikipedia might result in an indefinite block.

GAMERBOY102 has now created Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/Gateway Mall (Quezon City). The article still is not a featured article, so this seems to be an editor who is not learning from their mistake and not using common sense. User:SchroCat has (in my view, reasonably) nominated it for deletion.

Is a partial block from project space in order? Robert McClenon (talk) 16:12, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, as well as template space.  Done OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 16:19, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• If they are not understanding the fact that Today's Featured Article actually needs to be a Featured Article, then there's an element of WP:CIR here. However, I can't see where they have been empirically told that, especially given that their grasp of English appears to be a bit shaky. Black Kite (talk) 16:21, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I left them a message this morning (which was after they posted at WP:TFAR), so there is no excuse in the future for this to happen once the PB ends. - SchroCat (talk) 16:30, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Blocked as a sock. All the nonsense they created is G5'able (unless useful and/or edited by others).-- Ponyo^{bons mots} 20:11, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Fictitious references introduced by User:XXzoonamiXX around 2014

I don't know whether this editor has turned over a new leaf since, because this is about events over ten years ago, but the offending edits are still present in a number of articles so I'd like some help to review and remove them. This relates to a number of edits the user made on articles relating to war crimes or chemical/biological weapons. Example edits are:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_biological_warfare&diff=599166333&oldid=598601119 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chemical_weapons_in_World_War_I&diff=prev&oldid=596378942 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Geneva_Protocol&diff=prev&oldid=596400711

A number of references are used by the editor:

Max Boot (August 16, 2007). War Made New: Weapons, Warriors, and the Making of the Modern World. Gotham. pp. 245–250. ISBN 1-59240-315-8. ---- This is a chapter about Pearl Harbor. Randomly used to justify edits made in a range of random places. Proof: https://catalog.sbplibrary.org/Record/113641?searchId=4240028&recordIndex=3&page=

D. Hank Ellison (August 24, 2007). Handbook of Chemical and Biological Warfare Agents, Second Edition. CRC Press. pp. 87–100. ISBN 0-8493-1434-8. ---- This book is about advice for first responders. The cited pages seem chosen at random, for example this page ref is used in an article about smallpox but actually relates to nerve agents. https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Handbook_of_Chemical_and_Biological_Warf/E58GAKMgcR4C?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=RA1-PA3&printsec=frontcover

Joel A. Vilensky (1986). Dew of Death: The Story of Lewisite, America's World War I Weapon of Mass. Indiana University Press. pp. 78–80. ISBN 0-2533-4612-6. ---- This book is mainly about later developments in Lewisite, the page ref relates to WWII development in anti-Lewisite treatment. https://archive.org/details/dewofdeathstoryo0000vile/page/78/mode/2up?view=theater

L. F. Haber (1986). The Poisonous Cloud: Chemical Warfare in the First World War. Clarendon Press. pp. 106–108. ISBN 0-1985-8142-4. ---- This book is actually potentially relevant to the topic, but the page reference is incorrectly chosen for a article section on civilian casualties of WWI. In this case editor's edit grossly misrepresents book. https://www.fulcrum.org/epubs/bn999951q?locale=en#page=120

"Crawford, Native Americans of the Pontiac's War" ---- Book does not exist. Google search only turns up wikipedia articles. Closest is Michael H. Crawford's books on the genetic origins of Native americans, which is clearly irrelevant.

These are not innocent errors. Editor appears to for example, manufacture quotes out of thin air (see Haig quote in the chemical weapons example) or manufacture numbers (up to 260k civilian casualties) that directly contradict values given in Haber (when Haber actually discusses casualty figures, on pages 239-253)

In addition to the editor's contributions, other editors have copied and pasted the offending sections to other articles (which is what drew my attention). So it's really getting to be quite a substantial issue. I've fixed some of it (the ones relating to chemical weapons in WWI) but I need help - these are just the instances I've looked at and there are likely others. I also haven't verified whether the editor has continued to use fictitious references in their edits since. There is an erroneous page ref in a recent article but that might just be a simple error. -Fangz (talk) 21:07, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Also note that the editor is surely aware that they did this and has not corrected the articles since, despite being still active (at least until October 2024). Fangz (talk) 21:19, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

USER:CleoSpar

This looks like someone's burner account that they're just using for trolling would-be admins (firstly giving Marcgarver this rather facetious cookie after the AELECT, then deleting Grahm87's admin flair after his RRFA). Asides from some cosmetic user-page edits no other edits. Appears to be WP:NOTHERE. I did think about simply blocking this account myself but it would be my first block and I'm not even sure how to do it, nor do I want to get a reputation for trigger-happiness if it wouldn't actually be a kosher block. FOARP (talk) 21:10, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

They also gamed autoconfirmed with several trivial edits to their userpage in order to edit Graham87's userpage. jlwoodwa (talk) 21:21, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Blocked for trolling.-- Ponyo^{bons mots} 21:39, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Also note that account creation is currently blocked on their range, so they're hauling out sleepers. In my experience, they probably have a bunch of other accounts in the wings if they're willing to sacrifice sleepers from 2021.-- Ponyo^{bons mots} 21:43, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

OK, probably next time I see an account like that I should just straight block? FOARP (talk) 21:50, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, or you could always kick it here for a sanity check if you want. Or drop me a note, I'll be happy to give you a second opinion on anything admin related while you get used to the buttons!-- Ponyo^{bons mots} 21:55, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Or the discord server. I just had a nice discussion there that answered my questions about IP blocks and open proxies. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 22:45, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

@FOARP, if you haven't found WP:ADMINGUIDE yet, now you have. If you use Twinkle, it'll also drop the talk page notices. -- asilvering (talk) 08:39, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Category:Requests for unblock under sustained attack by MidAtlanticBaby

See Category:Requests for unblock and examples at User talk:5.167.250.250, User talk:80.85.151.106, User talk:90.5.100.140, User talk:126.15.241.147, and User talk:201.170.89.89. This is the WP:LTA known as MidAtlanticBaby. I've handled about 25 of these in the past hour or so. In general, my approach is to block the IP address (it's always a VPNgate proxy) for a year without TPA, delete the page and salt it. Anything less, anything less, doesn't work. Anyway, it's too much. This has been going on in various forms for months. I give up and will no longer patrol Category:Requests for unblock until we figure out a way to better handle MidAtlanticBaby, ideally automatically. This isn't me taking my ball and going home, not at all. I simply can't keep up and can't be productive with this garbage sucking all my time and energy. --Yamla (talk) 23:04, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm sorry you've had so much of your time wasted on that nonsense. You are too valuable an administrator and community member to have to continue with that. Bgsu98 (Talk) 23:09, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, Bgsu98. Arguably, this discussion should be merged into Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#Seeking_opinions:_protection_of_the_help_desk_and_teahouse. If anyone thinks that's accurate, feel free to do so. For me, it's time to go cook supper. :) --Yamla (talk) 23:12, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

We need to get better at dealing with determined bad actors who have the resources or sophistication to keep switching proxies/VPNs like this. And yes, that has include the WMF going after them in meatspace. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:13, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Its incessant. If the Foundation doesn't clamp down on it forthwith, I'll be following suit with Yamla. Maybe they can cook me dinner.-- Ponyo^{bons mots} 23:26, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Has ArbCom raised this with the WMF at all? -- asilvering (talk) 04:32, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

(Non-administrator comment) I'll ask a question to the admins as I truly want to help; do you guys want us to revert the weird edits before the IP is blocked, where it kind of goes back and fourth in reverts, or just leave it there? Considering MAB will read this, feel free to not answer. win8x (talk) 23:34, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

As long at it isn't hugely obscene, leave it and report the IP. Mass mutual reversions do nothing but fill the page history. DatGuy^Talk_Contribs 23:39, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Got it. This could be useful to tell people, because right now this fills up the edit filter log, and as you said, page histories. win8x (talk) 23:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

(Non-administrator comment): Doesn't ptwiki require a login now? We should see how that's working and seriously consider doing the same. Sumanuil. _{(talk to me)} 01:25, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

This is pretty drastic. Besides, MAB as recently as today, used logged-in accounts to do the usual. Clearing your cookies is easy, so I don't think this would even change anything. win8x (talk) 01:30, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Per HJ Mitchell above, given the particulars here situation it seems clearly preferable for WMF to take them to court if their identity is known. I know WMF has been questioned recently as regards the personal information of users, but there is no reason that seeking legal remedy against one of the most disruptive serial bad-faith actors in site history should be seen as a violation of trust or principles. Remsense ‥ 论 03:07, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Do you really expect WMF to be able to track down someone using an anonymous peer to peer VPN service designed to evade nation state surveillance and censorship? It's probably better to let Bbb23 (talk · contribs) and other moderators who enjoy routinely blocking people handle it. 2602:FE43:1:46DD:A8D1:430:2300:D52F (talk) 03:39, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

No, it's not preferable. I meant exactly what I said: if the WMF has that information, they should pursue legal action. If they don't, then obviously that's not an option. Remsense ‥ 论 03:42, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

They don't have that information. At most, WMF has a few IP addresses that the providing ISPs can possibly track to a relatively small number out of thousands of innocent third parties. 2602:FE43:1:46DD:A8D1:430:2300:D52F (talk) 03:47, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Neither you nor I know what the WMF knows or does not know. When people play with fire for months or years on end, sometimes they make a mistake. Remsense ‥ 论 03:49, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

They knew exactly who JarlaxleArtemis was and couldn't do shit for decades about him because his ISP and the VPN providers he used refused to play ball. It took him threatening Merriam-Webster to get rid of him via unrelated legal action. I imagine WMF Legal is similarly constrained with MidAtlanticBaby. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{threads critiques} 08:06, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@Jéské Couriano didn't he threaten a senator? I thought that was his downfall. Not that I wish prison on these people, we just want them to go away. Anyway, the climate is changing and ISPs, governments, etc ate increasingly willong to act on online abuse that wouldn't be tolerated in meatspace. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:27, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

I think the WMF could do that. As others said, the LTA is using VPNGate, which has an anti-abuse policy here. VPNGate sounds like they would disclose information, provided the WMF's lawyers do something. win8x (talk) 03:50, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm going to start a discussion over on the WP:AN thread about this. Remsense ‥ 论 03:53, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

VPNGate doesn't really have that info either. They have the IP address the client connects from. However, if MAB is smart, they are using multiple levels of VPN, anonymous proxies and/or open WiFi access in countries without cooperating legal agreements with the US and other entities where WMF has legal standing. 2602:FE43:1:46DD:A8D1:430:2300:D52F (talk) 03:56, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't know if MAB is that smart. From what I know, MAB is *probably* from the US. Besides, MAB was blocked by a CheckUser. Yes, it was 5 months ago, but that tells me that he wasn't using a VPN at the time. The WMF themselves could have that information. (Just want to say I have 0 expertise in this and I am maybe saying some bullshit) win8x (talk) 04:03, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

It's clearly worth investigating. Remsense ‥ 论 04:08, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

CheckUser isn't a magic bullet as CheckUser blocks are often based on behavioral "evidence". It all comes down to luck and how much time and money WMF wants to spend on a fairly benign troll and if they want to repeat that process for each of the minor vandals out there doing something similar. Or WMF could just force people to login with an account tied to a confirmed email address in order to be able to edit which is the more likely outcome of the community pushing them to take action in cases like this. 2602:FE43:1:46DD:A8D1:430:2300:D52F (talk) 04:18, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

I wouldn't calll MAB "benign". They are more than a troll, they are a vandal and actively try to get extended confirmed so that they can harras an editor they think, wrongly, is responsible for them being blocked. They regularly make death threats against editors and admins who revert their vandalism. They suck up a lot of editor time and are incredibly persistent, easily making dozens and dozens of edits over the course of an hour or two. They are one of the worst sockmasters I've come across in my time here. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

If that's your concern, I will say I would not be interested in pursuing this if I thought account-only was a remotely possible outcome. It would almost surely be a greater fiasco if you want to think purely cynically about it. Remsense ‥ 论 04:38, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@Yamla, you've checkuser blocked this IP's /64 before, is that still relevant? – 2804:F1...28:4E68 (::/32) (talk) 05:54, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

If you look at the comment that started this discussion, it was Yamla saying that they were done dealing with this persistent pest. Can't say I blame them. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 08:02, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

The IPv6 above is talking about the previous IPv6 commenter. I assume the answer is "not relevant", since the checkuser block on that range predates MAB. -- asilvering (talk) 08:26, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

It probably isn't directly relevant to MAB, but, assuming the range is static, it may be relevant as to whether their comments in this thread should be taken seriously, especially given that the IP was first blocked for a month as a "self-declared troll" before being re-blocked for six months as a CU block. Aoi (青い) (talk) 08:30, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't think they should be taken seriously. See for example, Special:Diff/1169582215. This is a self-declared WP:ANI troll once again returning to WP:ANI. I suggest my previous 6 month block of the /64 wasn't long enough. I have no reason to believe this is MAB operating from this IP address but haven't looked. --Yamla (talk) 10:49, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

(Non-administrator comment) Well, banning him is just adding salt into the wounds, and not solving the current problem itself. I'm so late into this but I feel like my input is the only way that can stop and unban him (and you guys too from doing the ongoing work), and I think by looking through his contributions I can see patterns as to what triggered MAB from what "events" he must've seen, and it was clear that his behaviour was affected by what he'd seen afterwards. Had that "event" not happened he would've otherwise edited productively like a normal editor, but what we don't know yet is what that "event" was, and this is the sort of thing we should ask him about. I think the best way is to follow a similar process I did on Pbritti's Admin election and go through certain links to reverts and comments by other editors (maybe even positive ones too) that may have lead him to doing something unwanted afterwards, and ask him how he felt after he'd seen that "event", and what he'll do differently next time he sees it. Obviously, nobody likes their work being reverted, but a simple undo or something in the comment can be doubly dangerous depending on the person they're reverting or commenting against, as it can lead to undesirable behaviour leading to unwanted sanctions. We just need editors to be more aware of who they're reverting and try and go easy on these editors, and maybe follow a 0-Revert-Rule philosophy if it's an editor that known to cause issues after seeing their work undone; and I believe MAB's case is no exception. If anybody wants to unblock talk page access and try that idea, be my guest, but to also to be aware that certain words may cause him to get upset. A^♭m ^(Ring!) _(Notes) 09:48, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@Abminor: This has already been attempted and failed by multiple users and administrators. MAB isn't interested in dialogue anymore, if ever he was. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{threads critiques} 09:59, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Your conception of this situation is deeply troubling. Anyone who makes a single death threat on here is rightfully gone, in all likelihood for good save the remote possibility of seriously compelling contrition on their part. That you are taking MAB's statements at face value and privileging whatever grievances are contained within as if they actually exist in proportion to the damage they're gleefully causing everyone around them is already either totally uninformed or otherwise naïve to the point of negligence. That you think anyone should ever have to be in a community with them again on top of that is delusional. Remsense ‥ 论 10:04, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

That's really sad. Maybe it's dependent on what was in the dialogue that cause him to cancel that out?

As for the death threat, he probably did that because he got instantly stressed by something, and didn't mean to in truth. But OK then, if nobody is brave enough to unblock him then expect to see more threads like these in the future, and more unwanted problems. I'm sorry if I caused anybody stress and made things worse, which wasn't my intention. A^♭m ^(Ring!) _(Notes) 10:27, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

My core point is simply that there is no plausible reading of their behavior as being in good faith or wanting to do anything but damage the project. That they would somehow revert to what we would consider within the bounds of acceptable conduct is inconceivable. Remsense ‥ 论 10:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Unblocking someone because they have caused serious disruption up to the extent of issuing death threats would set an absolutely terrible precedent and would be a green light for other blocked users to cause the same disruption knowing it could get them what they want. We have occasionally unblocked people who have initially thrown a tantrum but later cooled down and shown some contrition but in this case the user is too far beyond the pale and has exhausted users' time and patience so much that there is no good will towards them. Valenciano (talk) 11:02, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

That sounds very frustrating, @Yamla, and I'm sorry we don't have better tools available to manage this.

I am trying to move T354599: Provide IP reputation variables in AbuseFilter forward. That would allow for AbuseFilter variables that could target specifically edits from VPNgate. We just recently got approval from Legal for implementing this work. There's another task, T360195: Analyze IP reputation data and how it maps to on-wiki editing and account creation activity, which would help us craft more relevant IP reputation variables in AbuseFilter, but we could probably get started with some easy ones (like the proxy name) as that analysis work won't get done until early 2025. If you have any input on what types of IP reputation variables would be useful in AbuseFilters for mitigating this type of abuse, please let me know here or in T354599: Provide IP reputation variables in AbuseFilter . KHarlan (WMF) (talk) 10:23, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

KHarlan, a sincere thanks for trying to tackle issues in this area. I'll give it some thought and comment there. --Yamla (talk) 10:39, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

User:Hanson Wu

Hanson Wu (talk · contribs) refuses to communicate about their repeated edits to biography leads, many against clear consensus—except to say "don't you dare revert this" in edit summaries, unfortunately. Remsense ‥ 论 00:04, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

This editor has made 51 edits over 5 years and has never posted on their User talk page or other Talk pages. That doesn't translate to me as "refuses to communicate" and more that "they don't realize that they have a talk page they should use". Although they did make an edit today, they look like an infrequent editor. I don't think we can expect them to join this discussion. I'm not sure this is an urgent, intractible dispute. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:12, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

The majority of their edits have been made since October, and it does not seem acceptable for them to continue as they have in this period. They have been made aware of discussions on both their talk page and article talk pages. Remsense ‥ 论 02:16, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@Liz: WP:Communicate would apply even if it is due to lack of awareness instead of deliberate refusal. In the case of not realizing it, blocking is a useful provisional measure because, either the block stays and the problematic edits stop, or the block can get the user's attention in a way talk page comments that the user did not see would not. In the latter case hopefully this would prompt the user to communicate. 2600:1012:A023:7497:39DE:43A4:B302:B09C (talk) 03:43, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, 2600:1012:A023:7497:39DE:43A4:B302:B09C, I understand the concept. I was just also trying to note that they are an infrequent editor and could go weeks or months before seeing a notice to come to ANI. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:32, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

User:Liz is wheel warring

Liz is wheel warring, and it's the third instance in the past six months. She deleted User:CharlieSimpson27112014 citing WP:CSD#U2. It may seem that way, but as I noted in my edit summary when restoring it, Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 195#User not registered, but has contributions and is blocked is a similar case. Accounts with certain levels of suppression appear to be unregistered, but are not. This is can be confirmed by going through Special:Block, which shows Special:Block/সেক্সি রসিক সেক্সি as being both locally blocked and globally locked. The same is true for Special:Block/CharlieSimpson27112014. That makes the userpage ineligible for speedy deletion under U2. Without acquiring consensus first, as WP:WHEELWAR requires save a few exceptions, Liz decided to delete the page again.

The first two previous instances were outlined at User talk:Liz#You are wheel warring, where she reverted my deletions and deletions made by Pppery, the latter of which violates Wikipedia's licensing terms to this day. Up to what point can violations of wheel warring be tolerated by policy, exactly? ✗plicit 08:01, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Well, Explicit, it is always a pleasure when you decide to complain about me at ANI. As for User:CharlieSimpson27112014, if you look at this page, it says that it is "a nonexistent username". Not that it is a blocked editor but that it is a nonexistent account. And I deleted it as such. Where would I have gone to find consensus for what looked like an obvious CSD U2? What forum would handle this disagreement?

Besides this account repeatedly appeared on my Quarry query that catches unregistered user pages and I've found Quarry to be very reliable.

But, even if you are correct, are you arguing that there is value in retaining a user page for an editor whose every edit had to be suppressed, is blocked and has no contribution history? I could be persuaded that you are right on this narrow policy ruling (you are a stickler for the rule of law, not the spirit of the law) but I don't think the intent of the rule is to argue there is any purpose for retaining a unregistered user page for an account blocked under these circumstances. But I since you have decided this disagreement is worthy of ANI, I will abide by consensus here.

And regarding your own behavior, I'll just mention that on several occasions where I have deleted a category of files to be deleted under CSD guidelines, you undeleted all of those pages for no reason other than so you could delete them yourself a minute later. Seriously, who does that? But I guess it's by pulling these stunts that you reached the 1M+ mark in deleted pages. You are the King. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 08:21, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Since this is dealing with admin issues, WP:AN is probably a better noticeboard for this discussion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 09:48, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

This appears to be an instance of a busy admin not having noticed the prior history, rather than consciously choosing to disregard it; and whether that userpage should exist strikes me as a question of complete unimportance. Newyorkbrad (talk) 09:43, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Gorabels147

Hello, I'd like to report Gorabels147. This edit alone warrants a permaban. Every contribution they have made is tagged as being reverted. -OXYLYPSE (talk) 09:45, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

You might want to take it here instead. A^♭m ^(Ring!) _(Notes) 09:50, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

If someone wants to move the thread there I won't object, but they haven't had a 4th vandalism warning recently (which the page requires) so I assumed it'd just get closed (or sent here!). OXYLYPSE (talk) 09:53, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Ezra Ben Yosef

I copied the complaint from WP:AIV, and will notify both parties. --Altenmann >talk 19:08, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Ezra Ben Yosef (talk · contribs) My name is Hellenyck, and I would like to clarify from the outset that I am only somewhat familiar with the conventions of the English Wikipedia, as I am predominantly active on the German Wikipedia. I have encountered an account that repeatedly introduces misinformation and historical distortions into the "Beta Israel" topic. Most of these edits have been reverted. Initially, I was inclined to attribute this user’s actions to a lack of understanding of the academic discourse (the academic discourse on "Beta Israel" fundamentally differs from the popular discourse in the media, and there is even a scholarly study by Kaplan on this). However, upon reviewing the edits, I noticed that the user is indeed familiar with the standard works on the topic but distorts and misrepresents their content beyond recognition. It is difficult to imagine that, despite extensive reading of these works, the core of recent academic discourse since the 1990s has escaped understanding (it is academic consensus that the Beta Israel are an autochthonous group that developed from Ethiopian Christianity from the 15th century onward; see, for example, Kay Kaufman Shelemay: Music, Ritual and Falasha History, East Lansing, Mich., 1986; Steven Kaplan: The Beta Israel (Falasha) in Ethiopia: From Earliest Times to the Twentieth Century, New York, 1992; Steven Kaplan: "Betä Ǝsraᵓel." In: Encyclopaedia Aethiopica, Volume 1, A–C, Wiesbaden, 2003, pp. 552–559). This user appears to deliberately spread misinformation, likely to express an apologetic worldview, which constitutes outright vandalism. Almost every one of his edits is a falsification of history. The user has previously been warned on the user page for apologetic edits in the Beta Israel article but has not ceased. Now, the individual has even invented a new term, "Judeo-Ge'ez". --Hellenyck (talk) 17:07, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

• @Hellenyck: In order for your complaint to be considered, you have to present user's edits which you say are misinformation, preferably in the form of diffs, with comments. --Altenmann >talk 20:22, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
• From my side, I reviewed the page Judeo-Ge'ez, supposedly a dialect of Ethiopian Jews, and can confirm that all references cited by Ezra Ben Yosef are invalid: they do not speak about Judeo-Ge'ez. It is plausible that Jews in Ethiopia spoke their dialect, cf. Judeo-Tajik etc., but, e.g., the book The Languages of the Jews: A Sociolinguistic History (btw, which lists Judeo-Tajik) says that they spoke Ge'ez, rather than Judeo-Ge'ez. --Altenmann >talk 20:22, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

  I myself will be busy this weekend and will therefore not be able to comment on the topic until Sunday evening at the earliest.

  For anyone deeply familiar with the subject, it's relatively straightforward to identify what the user is attempting here, where he is being dishonest, where he is fabricating sources, and where he is simply incorrect. I would, therefore, appreciate if another user with expertise in the field could review his contributions.

  However, I would like to make a few basic comments here.

  Fundamentally, the Beta Israel are an indigenous group that distanced themselves from Orthodoxy amidst turbulent historical events, rejecting the New Testament and adopting certain Old Testament customs (see Kaplan, Steven: The Beta Israel (Falasha) in Ethiopia. From Earliest Times to the Twentieth Century, New York 1992). Following their "defection," Christians labeled them with the term Ayhud—a term that indeed derives from yehudim but, in the Ethiopian context, means "heretic" (or "god-killer") and was applied to various heretical Christian groups (Kaplan, Steven: Ayhud, in: Encyclopaedia Aethiopica, I, A–C, Wiesbaden 2003, pp. 408–10). This term was rarely, if ever, used to refer to Jews, given that there were no actual Jews in Ethiopia. Ethiopian Christians viewed the Beta Israel as heretics, not as Jews, and likewise, the Beta Israel saw themselves not as Jews but as "Hebrews," a title associated with the royal dynasty. The original beliefs of the Beta Israel had no relation to Judaism.

  Later, from the 16th century onward, Europeans began arriving in Ethiopia, observing the customs of the Beta Israel. Due to superficial similarities (though there are substantial differences between the original faith of the Beta Israel and Judaism) and the Ethiopian designation Ayhud, these visitors mistakenly associated the Beta Israel with Jews. In the early 20th century, Beta Israel customs, especially due to the efforts of Faitlovitch, became increasingly aligned with Jewish practices, leading eventually to their migration to Israel. From the 1980s onward, scholarship—through careful analysis of sources—began to emphasize that nothing in the Beta Israel's original religion was inherently Jewish. This viewpoint is now the consensus in academic circles. Notably, however, this academic perspective has had little to no impact on political decisions. Discussions surrounding the "authentic Judaism of Ethiopians" are framed in fundamentally different terms from those in academic discourse.

  The user denies these facts and suggests (through genetic studies that are completely unsuitable for this question) that the Beta Israel represent a branch of ancient Judaism. Furthermore, he constructs a linguistic connection between “Judaeo-Geez” and Hebrew and a historical connection between Beta Israel and Judaism, deliberately misinterpreting and repurposing evidence in order to achieve his desired result. In doing so, he completely ignores the scientific consensus. Hellenyck (talk) 23:36, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

  Unfortunately, wall-of-text glazes eyes and makes this harder to understand. Multiple users have warned this user about problems. Please post three or four diffs that show those problems and explain in one or two sentences for each why those diffs represent a problem. Thanks. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 01:12, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

  This diff appears problematic. The citation to Chiaroni says Hammer, which could be just an innocent mistake. However, the study, appears to have been misrepresented. The word "Jew" or "Jewish" isn't in the study, so the conclusion about Ethiopian Jews appears to have been mis-stated. Andre🚐 01:16, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment. I know rsjaffe is asking for differences, but the issues here are more about content not matching the cited materials from the article's inception. These problems date to the article's creation. Would this be more appropriately handled at the Wikipedia:No original research/Noticeboard? Essentially this is an WP:OR problem involving content... although repeatedly misrepresenting sources (ie citing material that doesn't verify the text) might be seen as a behavioral issue that needs addressing an ANI.

What is required is reading the cited sources and comparing them to the text in the article. In fact checking, the Kaplan source is used repeatedly and it never mentions "Judeo-Ge'ez" anywhere. It does address dialect in Beta Israel literature begins on page 103, but the author calls it an "Agaw dialect" (which we already cover as a people group and at Agaw languages). Kaplan as a whole argues that the Beta Israel texts were transcribed not from Jewish sources but Christian one, which is pretty antithetical to the point of view in this article which is working hard to connect the Beta Israel texts directly to Jewish literature. Clearly, there is no way anyone who has read the Kaplan article could come to the conclusions being made in the Judeo-Ge'ez article. They are clearly false citations that have existed from moment of article creation.4meter4 (talk) 03:27, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

4meter4, it sounds like, at the very least, a rewrite is called for if these mistakes have existed since the article's creation. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:58, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

@Liz I think you are fundamentally missing the point that the term "Judeo-Ge'ez" itself is made up. None of the sources use that term. As a concept it is completely original, and there are no sources to support a re-write. It's rightly at WP:AFD. The question is what to do with the editor who created an article on a term not mentioned in sources being cited who essentially falsified references and was purposefully deceptive. For example, the Hebrew language that supposedly means Judeo-Ge'ez given in the article ( יהודי אתיופי ) is actually the Hebrew name for Ethiopian Jew. The whole thing is an odd original treatise not supported by anything that has ever been published. One could even call it WP:HOAX but I think the author is more of a sincere original thinker with a pet WP:FRINGE theory that has never been published.4meter4 (talk) 05:07, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

That's why I said "at the very least". You can also send this to AFD if you believe it is not fixable. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:41, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

As 4meter4 said, the article is already at AfD (roughly 14 hours before your comment). 100.36.106.199 (talk) 11:14, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Liz, you are missing the point of the complaint of Hellenyck: a single OR article would be not a big deal, but this person apparently disrupts other articles with their theories. --Altenmann >talk 17:19, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I hadn't thought about that. His edit history will need to be checked as he appears to have edited heavily in articles related to both Ethiopia and Jewish history. Given the false referencing in one article, we may need to investigate whether this has occurred in other locations as well. If he's introduced false referencing elsewhere, I would support either a topic ban or a block. That said, I don't know if that has happened as I personally have not looked. It might just be the one incident/article.4meter4 (talk) 19:41, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Show us the diffs. We are not experts in this field yet we may have to take significant action. Give us several examples of disruption, point to the online reference the user relied on and explain why the edit is a problem. I am inclined to believe you, but to take significant action requires confirmation. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 19:43, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

• One thing is for sure: the editor was replacing Ge'ez with Judeo-Ge'ez (reverted everywhere already), e.g., [231] or [232].
• He uploaded and used an image with false caption, see edit summary [233] and I verified and placed correct data taken from reliable source.
• removed valid info claiming it is "misleading"
• Here he inserted a texh (maybe even valid) in front of a footnote, which I am 100% sure he did not read (BTW this footnote of suspicious provenance was added by an anon).
• False edit summary "Fixed minor grammatical errors" - no.

--Altenmann >talk 21:43, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

OK, that's enough for a temporary block for disruptive editing. I have blocked from article space for 31 hours and invited the editor here to discuss. Other administrators feel free to extend this block if I have been too conservative or otherwise alter/remove it. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 22:18, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Factoring into this decision was the observation that 1/3rd of the user's edits have been reverted. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 22:36, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Redux

Unarchiving this, as User:Ezra Ben Yosef's conduct remains completely unacceptable. I see no indication they care about establishing consensus or refraining from slandering other users.[234] Remsense ‥ 论 11:00, 21 November 2024 (UTC)