User talk:voorts
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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2024 New Way Cargo Airlines Ilyushin Il-76 shootdown (3rd nomination)
[edit]Hello, Voorts,
A closer can't come up with an original ATD that hasn't been mentioned in the AFD discussion and I don't see that a Redirect had been suggested. I might have missed a comment but all I saw when I reviewed it were Deletes and Keeps. I learned about this the hard way when my closure was brought to Wikipedia:Deletion review which is generally not a pleasant experience for an AFD closer. If there isn't a consensus, it's better to relist a discussion rather than come up with your own resolution. Liz Read! Talk! 05:21, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
- I'll relist it. I thought there was a rough consensus to delete, but redirecting was plausible as an ATD. I thought that kind of close was within closer discretion, but good to know that it's not. voorts (talk/contributions) 05:42, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for being so receptive to criticism. Having had some unpleasant past experiences at Deletion review (where I was discussed, not the AFD closure), I'm trying to get admins and NAC closers from making questionable closures that might be challenged there. And, it took a while, but I eventually learned that some discussions just have no consensus, no matter how many times they are relisted. Ironically, these are sometimes the closures that are contested but you have to come to some decision as an AFD closer and you can't please everyone. Liz Read! Talk! 04:10, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment
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Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment
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Question about ANI closure
[edit]Voorts, the A/E discussion you linked-[1] did not mention Simonms once. The AN/ANI thread (I moved to ANI on my volition after realizing that it may not have been the best platform) was specifically about Simoms conduct on my t/p and the article t/p, where he was repeatedly and objectively fabricating Wikipedia policy, in addition to straw manning my arguments. It was only after GhostofDanGurney responded and derailed the conversation to A/E, did I feel compelled to point to his own record at A/E, and Ghost made false claims against me stating that I forced Simonms to go the article t/p. I felt that Ghost's post there was a clear case of tag teaming as evidenced by here-[2].
In any case, since there is objective and repeated fabricating of Wikipedia policy from Simonm (which I'd say is pretty severe), do I have no recourse? Am I supposed to just tolerate someone making stuff upon the fly and expecting me to abide by it? I'm genuinely curious. Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 17:40, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
- This is a content dispute, not a conduct issue. You disagree with Ghost and Simon's readings of policy. That's fine; editors are allowed to disagree. Editors are not allowed, however, to file conduct claims at AN/I, AE, etc. when they have such a disagreement. Generally, you should remain civil, AGF, and attempt to resolve your disputes. I think the best path forward here would be seeking a neutral mediator. @GhostOfDanGurney and @Simonm223: would you be open to dispute resolution at WP:DRN? voorts (talk/contributions) 17:46, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
- I mean I came into this issue as a neutral editor but, yeah, sure, I suppose we might as well try. Simonm223 (talk) 17:53, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
- I'm willing to participate in any DR. However, I'm genuinely bewildered that someone is allowed to repeatedly and confidently make claims on how to approach WP:PUBLICFIGURE without any evidence or content on the related page backing their statements, and face zero repercussions. Not only that, but then demanding that other editors abide by non-existent claims on Wikipedia policy pages and insulting them when they ask for evidence. Like I genuinely cannot believe this is real life.
- Voorts, I'm sincerely asking that you look at the ANI report, and only focus on what was said before GhostofDanGurney came in.Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 18:01, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
I'm genuinely bewildered that someone is allowed to repeatedly and confidently make claims on how to approach WP:PUBLICFIGURE without any evidence or content on the related page backing their statements, and face zero repercussions.
Simon and Ghost have explained their reading of PUBLICFIGURE. You might disagree with it, but that doesn't mean they didn't give a reason. voorts (talk/contributions) 18:04, 16 November 2024 (UTC)- WP:PUBLICFIGURE makes zero mention of whether or not a person can become a public figure through criminal activity which has or hasn't secured a conviction, as Simonm was repeatedly stating it does. It just states that a public figure will have numerous reliable sources reporting on/documenting them. Calling that a reading or interpretation is a enormous stretch, I'd say. Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 18:16, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Southasianhistorian8: I'm not here to relitigate this dispute with you and I'm not going to take any administrative action here. Either take this to dispute resolution or step away from this article. voorts (talk/contributions) 18:18, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
- I'll take this to DRN. Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 18:19, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Southasianhistorian8: I'm not here to relitigate this dispute with you and I'm not going to take any administrative action here. Either take this to dispute resolution or step away from this article. voorts (talk/contributions) 18:18, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
- WP:PUBLICFIGURE makes zero mention of whether or not a person can become a public figure through criminal activity which has or hasn't secured a conviction, as Simonm was repeatedly stating it does. It just states that a public figure will have numerous reliable sources reporting on/documenting them. Calling that a reading or interpretation is a enormous stretch, I'd say. Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 18:16, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment
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