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Heavy rainfall warnings are issued for the affected areas of Kentucky as Governor Andy Beshear says that at least 37 people remain unaccounted for. (The Washington Times)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Indian philanthropist and business executive. Article is a start-class biography but just meets minimums for homepage / RD. RIP. Ktin (talk) 16:33, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This is a brand new article with only 305 words of prose and just long enough to qualify. Coverage of the subject's life seems a little thin, but okay. Footnotes can be found at expected spots. Formatting looks fine. And, Earwig did not find any problems. This wikibio is READY for RD. However, it would benefit from an expansion on "his contributions to the development of the city of Manipal" so that readers would appreciate why he was "referred to as the 'architect of modern Manipal'." --PFHLai (talk) 10:39, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@PFHLai: thanks for this note. Did my best by adding some additional content. Please have a look when you have a moment. Not stellar but beets minimum expectations imo. Thanks again. Ktin (talk) 17:43, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Oppose on quality Unfortunately, references are not clear and proper, as there are several parts of the article that isn't supported within the references listed. Elaborate cause of death isn't necessary for RD, which shows in Bill Russell. MarioJump83 (talk) 21:38, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Time to look at this nom again? This wikibio has grown quite a bit, with sourcing also augmented, the past few days. The first paragraph of the Early life and career section needs footnotes. The rest of the wikipage looks better and may be due for a re-review. --PFHLai (talk) 16:24, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Support someone opened the hailing frequencies, and it looks like the needed citations are beaming into the article as we speak. 🖖 Imzadi 1979→20:19, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I love Star Trek so I am biased, and I'm probably the only one who thinks so, but there might be an argument for a blurb here. She was groundbreaking in television. Was she the most famous, even just among the cast, no, but she has influenced many. 331dot (talk) 20:25, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support When it's ready, I would mind a blurb. She was groundbreaking for black women on the screen, and seeing articles and condolences flooding in from all over the world, I'd say she was definitely well known. --cart-Talk20:38, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD. Although a good actress with a wider impact, I wouldn’t say she is blurb-worthy. She didn’t break new ground or radically change things - this feels a bit more like Carrie Fisher, where the fan vote overtakes the guidelines. 2A00:23C7:2B86:9801:A9EA:1A01:7E8:768C (talk) 21:01, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This part of the intro to her article sounds groundbreaking to me:
Nichols' portrayal of Uhura was ground-breaking for African American actresses on American television. From 1977 until 2015, Nichols volunteered her time to promote NASA's programs, and to recruit diverse astronauts, including women and ethnic minorities.
Apparently Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. thought her work was groundbreaking, as he personally convinced her not to quit the series. From her article:
King personally encouraged her to stay on the series, saying she "could not give up" because she was playing a vital role model for Black children and young women across the country, as well as for other children who would see Black people appearing as equals, going so far as to favorably compare her work on the series to the marches of the ongoing civil rights movement.
Support RD I'm bearish on blurbing Russell, and clearly Nichols is far below him in significance (no disrespect, I like Star Trek much more than basketball). Anyway, the article looks in posting condition to me. Nohomersryan (talk) 21:45, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose several entries (some of which don't even have links to articles) in the latter tables are unreferenced. This is a bit silly when we know we need these claims to be referenced that anyone would support at this time. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:19, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Had a look now. Couldn't track down anything usable for Surge of Dawn (which appears to be a truly Z-tier movie) and Star Trek Adventure (a vague theme park ride with several incarnations). If they're a barrier to posting and no one else finds anything, they should be taken out. Nohomersryan (talk) 22:50, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I can't find sources for those either. WP:ITN says Articles should be well referenced; one or two "citation needed" tags may not hold up an article, but any contentious statements must have a source, and having entire sections without any sources is unacceptable. This is not contentious, and leaving it with a cn tag should not prevent posting. Commenting it out is another option. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:20, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD A couple fairly trivial cites missing. Not enough to hold up posting. [Very sad news. I am feeling my age right now. Memory eternal.] -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:02, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Age Blurb If there's something to be said of how Nichelle Nichols' death is a milestone in black or television history, say that instead. Her influence hasn't changed from when she was alive at 88, 84 or whatever retirement year. Explain the significance of her death and consider me Supportive. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:38, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If we were going to post a death blurb for a Star Trek TOS cast member, I can't help thinking we missed the boat when we didn't post Nimoy. —Cryptic21:19, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nimoy was a white male, a group rather well-represented in tv shows. He was hardly groundbreaking in any social sense. cart-Talk11:40, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support - Article looks fine, but it is not on ITN/R and we already have a lot of other football tournaments there, that being said Women's sports is underrepresented and the mens tournament is in ITN/R.🌈 4🧚♂amKING 👑 19:13, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
just wanted to state that the blurb should link to the final instead of the tournament, at least in its current condition. The Tournament page suffers from the standard issues of Sport tournament pages (table overload and lack of prose/match overviews). 🌈 4🧚♂amKING 👑 19:18, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I would argue that, going forward, WEURO should also be ITNR; as 4iamking mentions, women's sports is underrepresented at ITNR for its increasing popularity. Sceptre (talk) 19:32, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment/Suggestion - If this gets posted with a picture, take the crest of the three lionesses (england womans football team) instead of the wembley-photo - as this blurb is about an england national football team winning an international tournament. offtopic: I wonder if the IP, that suggested this news, would have done it, if germany had won the tournament. anyway, congratulations! --LennBr (talk) 19:38, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support I'm not seeing any quality issues within the article and it is big news for women's football with a record breaking attendance. CaptainGalaxy20:01, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support "Football has come home, it has come home, it has come home, it has come....." Oh sorry, slightly distracted by England's glorious victory over the old enemy. ;) Article is fully sourced and looks great and broke so many records for women's football. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk)20:42, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality for now. A few issues: (1) no match summary in prose (a perennial issue for noms of this sort!); (2) the "route to the final" contains tables within a table, which is not compliant with MOS:ACCESS; (3) a few citations needed in the "Aftermath" section. Support on significance though, this seems to be widely reported even in news outlets such as NY Times and Sydney Morning Herald which aren't part of the area covered by the tournament. A great day for English football! — Amakuru (talk) 21:02, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support per PK3 on notability but oppose per Amakuru on lack of suitable update. If I get time I'll do it myself, but I'm sure there are other content writers out there who write about football other than me and Amakuru. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:18, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose We already have eleven (11) instances for association football at WP:ITNR, that is the highest for any sport or any topic even. If there needs to be a further mention of AF related titles, it needs to be discussed at ITNR first, this is already too cluttered as is. Gotitbro (talk) 23:39, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Some of them like Copa whatever and Bungholefister have never actually been posted. Those national tournaments need to come down, except maybe the EPL. --LaserLegs (talk) 23:56, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Except for the fact that "Bungholefister" is actually a major competition in the world's most popular sport. In any case, the argument that being a national tournament disqualifies football leagues from being posted is pretty trivial when we post American college basketball (which I'm pretty sure nobody outside the States watches) and the Boat Race (which I'm not sure anybody in the UK watches). AryKun (talk) 04:01, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Be honest with me, does anybody really care about Women's March Madness? I can see why the men's tournament is ITNR, of course, but the women's tournament isn't even the most popular women's basketball tournament in the US.
Also, for what it's worth, the fact that you immediately went to xenophobic homophobia without any sort of prompting means that you're in serious need of maturing a little. Just my two cents. Sceptre (talk) 17:50, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose no match summary (reading soccer is even worse than watching it but people who care will want to) then easy support. --LaserLegs (talk) 23:58, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. There are citations tags all over the "aftermath" section. There is no summary of the game's events. Does it even mention that the German captain Alexandra Popp was injured in the warm-up? I don't think it does. She is mentioned in the last sentence before "Match" and then... what happened to her? She's vanished. Not in the team. It's only because I heard this elsewhere that I know about it. Shouldn't the readers know?
Also, this is a recurring event that is not listed on the Wikipedia:In the news/Recurring items. Gotitbro's comment suggests this would be the 12th of its type. But is that all? There are other regional tournaments. England play Brazil in the UEFA–CONMEBOL Women's Finalissima (says UEFA Women's Euro 2022). This is because Brazil just won the 2022 Copa América Femenina Final (which has a better match summary than the Euro final). Then there is the 2022 Women's Africa Cup of Nations... the 2022 CONCACAF W Championship... the 2022 AFC Women's Asian Cup ("the oldest women's international football competition"). Are they all going to be included at ITNR? Please state how this one is more important than the Copa América Femenina. Since the winners qualify to play each other? Are there going to be 16 recurring items of this type in the future?
wasn't really a proposal, more of an observation. the only Womens's football tournament in ITN/R is the woman's World Cup, the other 10 are all male tournaments. Maybe there could be a proposal to include women sport tournament analog's to ITN/R, but this is probably a discussion for the talk page. 🌈 4🧚♂amKING 👑 01:21, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There is no requirement for something to be listed at ITN/R before it gets posted as a news item - indeed, the ITN/R listing often stems from the fact that something has gained consensus several times already. It may seem like there are a lot of football tournaments included in the regular listings, but at the end of the day it's the world's most popular sport, and the media have picked up on this, even US outlets such as NY Times. — Amakuru (talk) 08:55, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Major sporting event, and first major trophy for England in 50+ years. However, does need some more information to be added. After that, it'll be ready. echidnaLives (talk) 05:52, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Strongly support as he is one of the most important players in basketball who also had a great impact with the civil rights movement. Ayyydoc (talk) 17:27, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb One of a handful of athletes that deserves it - a titan of basketball, the first Black head coach in North American pro sports, and a civil rights icon. The Kip (talk) 17:45, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb I'm a bit surprised that this hasn't been posted yet after half an hour given that we posted Maradona's death in eight minutes. To be frank, Russell in basketball is of the same stature as Maradona in football. Age is irrelevant in this case.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:56, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not opposed to this as a blurb (it would be nice to have an FA on the main page), but fairly obviously Maradona was a legend in the biggest sport in the world, played worldwide, whilst I strongly suspect that very few people outside North America have ever heard of Russell. Black Kite (talk)18:40, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Blurb like I did for Maradona and whatever politician died recently and I do almost every time because "old man dies unremarkable death" is exactly what RD is for. Russell will end up the box, either in a blurb or in RD what difference does it make except that the boiler plate "X dies at Y age" will push Monkeypox out of the box. It's not like he died in a helicopter crash at age 41 come on. --LaserLegs (talk) 18:14, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurbThis is the state I'd expect an article for a RD BLP that we are going to post as a blurb - besides quality there's an extensive legacy/influence section to explain why he was important and not just claims of WPians. --Masem (t) 18:16, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
RD Only Unremarkable death... If we only got a generic burb of "Famous person X dies at Y age", its not doing anything that a RD wouldn't, and actually is exactly what RD is for. If there is a blurb it should state what about the death is significant. 🌈 4🧚♂amKING 👑 18:37, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
RD only – While a household name to U.S. BKB fans half a century ago, Mr. Russell reached the end of his lifespan and "died peacefully beside his wife." – Sca (talk) 18:51, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'd argue he's better known today than he was in the 60s. Pro basketball is much bigger today, and Russell's legacy has been enhanced by retrospective histories. Zagalejo (talk) 22:44, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb. First Black head coach in any North American professional sport and winning 11 championships (among the highest for an individual in a team sport) means he is tops in his field. 331dot (talk) 20:15, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
We didn't have "Death of Diego Maradona". (Well, we did for like 9 minutes, but it was a few sentences long and got redirected.) Zagalejo (talk) 22:44, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb - The current ITN consensus of blurbing a recent death seems to be departing away from blurbing figures who were merely exceptionally notable or tops in their field, regarding the last few times we've done this (Maradona) as a mistake. It's unfortunate Bill Russell ends up receiving the short end of the stick in this regard, but that seems to be where we are heading now. 🌈WaltCip-(talk)22:50, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb - this isnt just somebody exceptionally notable or tops in his field, though he is that, he was also a civil rights activist. Thats woefully underrepresented in his article, but he isnt just some basketball player. The blurb should also make note of that. nableezy - 00:11, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This cant possibly be a valid reason to oppose. Do we seriously need more evidence of the reflexive anti-anything American whatsoever attitude at ITN? Jfc. At least somebody was honest about it. nableezy - 04:12, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nableezy is right. There's a way to make your argument without assuming everyone supporting a blurb is hellbent on trumpeting Amerocentrism. There's absolutely no need to go ad hominem, especially since Archie did actually get posted within a day. 🌈WaltCip-(talk)11:27, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb - I can never understand how someone's old age negates their influence and impact in their respective field. Russell is a groundbreaking NBA player and was a very well known civil rights icon. Article in very good shape at that. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 05:38, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Age Blurb If there's something to be said of how Bill Russell's death is a milestone in black or basketball history, say that instead. His influence hasn't changed from when he was alive at 88, 84 or whatever retirement year. Explain the significance of his death and consider me Supportive. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:24, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
A US basketball player doesn't nearly have the notoriety that Gorbachev has. That being said, a blurb of "The first woman in space Valentina Tereshkova dies" is a thousand times better than a blurb that says "Russian Cosmonaut Valentina Tereshkova dies at age xx", we have the latter for this guy. 🌈 4🧚♂amKING 👑 11:38, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb. US editors: "American basketball player Bill Russell dies at the age of 88." Rest of world: "Who? So ...?". This is a global encyclopedia, not one for US sports fans. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:27, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Not yet annoyingly! I'll keep an eye out. If it's anything like the Tour de France one below, it will take 48 hours or so to get the article fully ship shape so - hopefully one will appear! Turini2 (talk) 16:47, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support on principle - we've posted the mens, and so we should post the womens version as well, which only occured a week later. --Masem (t) 16:53, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment "Race overview" is very short but has a "see also" for 2022 Tour de France Femmes, Stage 1 to Stage 8 which is very detailed. Problem is, that "sub article" has two refs for each stage summary -- is that whole article sourced from just two accounts of the race? We shouldn't be sweeping referencing issues into WP:SPINOUT articles and pretending they don't exist. We should post this, it's a shining example of systemic bias that we've consistently refused blanket inclusions of women's editions of sporting events already listed at ITN/R. No real problems with the bolded article except that race summary prose is kind of short. --LaserLegs (talk) 18:22, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose until complete, then support - the race summary only covers the first five stages, and the "Classification Leadership" table, as far as I can see, is unsourced. Black Kite (talk)15:32, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support, and also in future, assuming that the women's race ends whilst the men's race is still on ITN, I would suggest adding the women's winner to the blurb pretty quickly, and then maybe moving the combined blurb up a bullet point. The end of July is typically quiet for ITN anyway. Sceptre (talk) 17:56, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If someone could take a look, I think I've made all the relevant edits and updates - just gonna go and get some photos to populate the article. Turini2 (talk) 20:42, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
This cannot be put into RD for now due to lack of necessary sourcing. A lot of CN tags and there's a section that doesn't have any citations. Notable and important figure but citation/sourcing issues hold this back. MarioJump83 (talk) 21:41, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
An absolute mess of sourcing, but if these problems are resolved in time I could see a blurb being an option, if the support is there. Anarchyte (talk) 10:15, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I also think he is worthy of a blurb, but the article has several paragraphs without sources; the article should be revamped. Vida0007 (talk) 13:02, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Russia's Gazprom suspends gas supplies to Latvia after accusing it of "violating conditions of purchase". The Latvian government says the suspension of gas from Russia is not expected to have a major impact on the economy. (BBC News)
North Korea announces zero "fever cases" for the first time since mid-May when the country first announced an outbreak of COVID-19. Authorities stated that 4.8 million people were infected and that 74 people died from the virus. (Al Jazeera)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Toronto historian, newspaper columnist and author, likely "Toronto's best known historian". Needs a couple refs but generally good to go. Floydianτ¢14:13, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
The Career section has multiple footnote-free paragraphs. The Filmography section is largely unsourced. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 17:22, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The Career section still has a few {cn} tags. The Filmography section is still largely unsourced. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 15:27, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
A short article (416 words of prose) with about half of the prose on his legal troubles? This is not balanced coverage. He was a two-term MP, but there is no info on what he did as a candidate or as an MP, apart from the name of the party, the constituency and the start and end years. (Not to mention the lack of footnote in that paragraph!). Please expand on his political career. --PFHLai (talk) 00:58, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Support The article is in very good shape. This should be a rapid posting. Will be interesting to see how quickly an Aboriginal Australian can get the attention of those with the power here. HiLo48 (talk) 01:38, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Oppose on quality - a few sections without references and orange tagged. No prejudice against posting after this is resolved. Anarchyte (talk) 08:07, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Wet storms in the US in the summer are norm for the course, this is not significant enough for ITN. --Masem (t) 02:34, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The only comment I have is that President Biden did declare a disaster area for the Kentucky floods, which is uncommon, so that should be incorporated into the blurb. Elijahandskip (talk) 02:39, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Declaring disaster areas after storms like this is the norm, not unusual (it lets him direct FEMA funds). Masem (t) 02:43, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment severe flooding causing fatalities is not common in Appalachia the way it is along the Mississippi or with flash floods in the plains (or monsoons in SE Asia for that matter). The article isn't detailed enough though. Usual issues: 25 dead where? What water courses impacted? etc. --LaserLegs (talk) 10:00, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support – Major flood(s), with fatalities expected to rise beyond current reports of 25 in weeks ahead, says Ky. Gov. Breshear. – Sca (talk) 13:30, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support The Missouri flood would in the normal climate be expected to happen only once in a thousand years. A few days later the Kentucky flood happened and that one too would only be expected to happen once in a thousand years. Count Iblis (talk) 01:49, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but note that the climate is changing quite rapidly now and that's part of the reason why this is news. But you could also argue that what's happening now was already in the news a long time ago, see here, or here, and that the issue is not really climate change but the fact that we choose to ignore the problem. So, perhaps we should focus more on news stories like this. Count Iblis (talk) 17:36, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support. This is greater than a “thousand year flood event”. 25 deaths is a significant number, and is not seen in the US except for once several years. Our criteria for posting United States floods, IIRC, used to be six deaths. A significant climate event with major economic repercussions. 142.127.118.145 (talk) 06:47, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – Sunday's AP writethru says "several dozen" missing, but the number counted missing sometimes fluctuates after natural disasters. – Sca (talk) 19:02, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – On Monday confirmed death toll put locally at 34. Seems time to post in the box. (The Lexington paper is an old, established RS owned by the McClatchy chain.) – Sca (talk) 17:23, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
A court in Kyiv reduces the sentence of Vadim Shishimarin, the first Russian soldier tried for war crimes, from life in prison to 15 years detention. Shishimarin's defense attorney says that it is "highly likely" that he will be returned to Russia in a prisoner exchange. (ABC News)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: I feel like its time to discuss removing this for good now. Ongoing should be for articles that have a constant stream of updates (due to the event generating ongoing news coverage). The covid pandemic does not meet that bar at this point as many countries transition away from pandemic and towards endemic phases. The pandemic article thats linked on the main page has gone from getting daily updates to only receiving 24 total edits for the entirety of July so far (including edits done for maintenance and by bots), and Covid itself doesnt even make Portal:Current events on a daily basis, having been absent there the past 2 days. (the last update being on July 27 when Samoa lifed their covid state of emergency). The updates we do get on the current events portal and on Timeline of the COVID-19 pandemic in July 2022 has essentially dwindled to a country updating their daily case count statistics (and usually the same ones at that) or the occasional prominant person testing positive, but given the current epidemiologic position, this is really no longer all that noteable or noteworthy. If covid comes back into the news headlines in the future we can reconsider this, but right now I strongly feel its time to take this down. 🌈 4🧚♂amKING 👑 22:01, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support While there’s some valid arguments to retain it, for most of the world life has returned to normal and COVID is nowhere near the level of concern it once was. As stated by the nom, the lack of major updates besides case count updates and occasional prominent victims bolsters that point. The Kip (talk) 22:14, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose There are still increasing rates across the globe and still disrupting life and thus making headlines. I will point out that with a topic as big as COVID that it is unreasonable to expect that the main landing page will have frequent updates (the same issue with the Hong Kong and the George Floyd protests), as long as relevant pages within that hierarchy are getting updates too. --Masem (t) 22:17, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
its not just on the main page... the article on pandemic responses is basically barren and last month wasn't much better, the timeline is basically just a statistical update (mostly from Malaysia/New Zealand/Taiwan/Singapore) since a lot of countries have stopped reporting data as readily. For the most part the stories about covid aren't making the front page of any newspaper, with covid affecting every day life less and other events taking over. The problem is the sub-pages aren't getting the updates they once were. 🌈 4🧚♂amKING 👑 22:34, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Problem is the pandemic likely won’t be declared formally over for years, even as case counts become minimal and life goes wholly back to normal. As nominative stated, HIV/AIDS is still regarded as a pandemic and we don’t list that as ongoing. Eventually, we hit a point where things are practically at an end, and for COVID we seem to to have reached that. If anything significant occurs, we can re-add/blurb it, but for now it seems unnecessary to retain. The Kip (talk) 02:33, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, there will be a point where we just "live" with it, but there are still new strains that are increasing rates of infection around the world, right now. We are definitely not just "living" with it yet. Masem (t) 03:39, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
According to the WHO, it most certainly is, and has killed over 40 million since the start of the pandemic in 1981. For comparison covid is currently claiming about 2500 people a day, but even in march 2020 it was double this. 🌈 4🧚♂amKING 👑 08:38, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support like I did last time. COVID-19 is "ongoing" now the same way climate change and HIV/AIDS are ongoing. It's here forever. It's part of life. The lockdowns are mostly over, travel restrictions mostly lifted, multiple vaccines exist. Take it down, and if something monumental happens we can post a blurb. --LaserLegs (talk) 23:33, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
A glance through CR-1-AB's contributions seems to indicate that the account is primarily focused on pushing political views rather than contributing to an encyclopedia. WP:SOAPBOX may be a valuable read. GaryColemanFan (talk) 03:50, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, you're right. Why is the anti-antifa userbox even a thing? Should probably be deleted. In answer to CR-1-AB, assuming they're not just a troll, people are opposing it because COVID-19 is still here and continuing to disrupt people's lives. -- RockstoneSend me a message!08:20, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support per The Kip and LaserLegs - COVID has little to no impact on everyday life today and precautionary measures, even where they still exist, have become the norm a long time ago. EditMaker Me (talk) 06:50, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
there is always going to be some regional variance in case count, some country may always be reporting an increase but at the end of the day its just a statistic. 4000 daily cases in a country of 100 million doesn't sound very significant (especially when you consider the country already had 3.7 million cases), and regardless global case counts aren't anything close to what they were at the height of the pandemic. Even that source says that the covid situation in every region of the Philippines is "low risk". 🌈 4🧚♂amKING 👑 08:07, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support removal as in line with ITN policy. The criteria for ongoing state that posted stories should still be "getting regular updates to the relevant article" and that "the article needs to be regularly updated with new, pertinent information. Articles whose most recent update is older than the oldest blurb currently on ITN are usually not being updated frequently enough for ongoing status". I checked the past month and nothing significant has been added to the COVID-19 pandemic article (a minor addition on 5 July re: discrimination against unvaccinated people was the most significant change, most of the rest are changes to wording or grammar). The oldest ITN blurb is currently the Sri Lankan protests dated 20 July - Dumelow (talk) 08:11, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose as cases are continuing to rise, and thousands are still dying daily. Will only support removal once the WHO no longer declares it a pandemic, or if cases start dropping AND STAY LOW, which is not the case right now in much of the world. This is way too premature, as it's still very much in the news. -- RockstoneSend me a message!08:17, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support If it doesnt get removed now, when will actually be removed? Nearly all global lockdowns are over, death rate has become marignal and there are only sporadic outbreaks Haris920 (talk) 09:36, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - COVID is not over. And on the rise again, it might not be the main topic of conversation anymore, but to say that COVID is not ongoing anymore is simply incorrect. It should remain in the Ongoing section.BabbaQ (talk) 09:44, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That covid is over is not the argument, there are specific criteria for an article to be listed in ongoing and these go beyond it merely happening. There are many other ongoing events that do not get posted to this section. 🌈 4🧚♂amKING 👑 10:46, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment per the guidelines Wikipedia:In_the_news#Ongoing_section "In general, articles are NOT posted to ongoing merely because they are related to events that are still happening. In order to be posted to ongoing, the article needs to be regularly updated with new, pertinent information." -- opposes above based solely on "it's still happening" without factoring in the actual WP:ITN criteria should be discarded for the purpose of evaluating consensus. --LaserLegs (talk) 10:03, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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(Closed) War crimes during the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine
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Nominator's comments: As the prisoner exchange in Donbas has been highly reported, I think it should be added to ITN
Comment - Nominator has been informed that additional information is required on his talk page for the ITN nomination to be valid/complete, and has been requested to return to the nomination to complete the required fields. Carter00000 (talk) 18:21, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Seemed like a good faith first time nomination by a new account, so wanted to give the chance to complete the nomination, prior to discussion on if the item should actually be posted. Carter00000 (talk) 19:21, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know what happened in Bucha, except that a state already caught red handed exaggerating war crimes claims released some photos and their narrative for the events leading up to those photos. I don't know what happened at Kremenchuk except that a 60 year old designed anti-ship weapon with inertial guidance hit a shopping center. Do we know that the mall was deliberately targeted? No, we do not. What I do know is that the US, UK, Australia and Poland invaded Iraq in 2003 behind some total make-believe and didn't have the economies crippled or face a war crimes court despite 100,000 civilians being killed so if and when an unbiased and independent (aka not NATO) investigator looks into these incidents, concludes they happened and concludes they were intentional we can post until then it's unsubstantiated Ukranian agit-prop and no, we don't need to feature it on the Wikipedia main page. --LaserLegs (talk) 23:42, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Albeit getting dangerously close to WP:NOTAFORUM, even if you disregard BBC, DW, AFP, etc as “NATO propaganda,” I suppose Amnesty International [2] are “propaganda” as well? There is ample evidence to prove events, the only sources combatting them thus far have been arms of the Russian state. The Kip (talk) 00:26, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support Can see arguments for its inclusion, but also seems encompassed by the existing ongoing event of the invasion.The Kip (talk) 22:08, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I now see this is an ITN nomination for the prisoner exchange (not an ongoing nom), so changing to oppose. Merely one event in a war. The Kip (talk) 22:11, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose We are not yet in a position for any entity to be able to call what has happened as a war crime - that has to come after the war is over and investigators can do their job. --Masem (t) 22:10, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: Since WHO has declared it as a global health emergency, so it should be listed in the ongoing section. I think death should not be the only factor of deciding. Debjyoti Gorai (talk) 05:59, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Monkeypox is on the current events portal on a daily basis right now, that should determine the basis of ongoing coverage for something going into ongoing. You can't even say that for Covid which we have listed for ongoing yet at this point hasn't had anything new in the portal for 2 days. 🌈 4🧚♂amKING 👑 21:39, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose ongoing, let it roll off. While this is a notable outbreak and the WHO declaration was right to post as a blurb, it doesn't have anywhere near the ongoing impact of Covid or the Russia-Ukraine war. So far there have been just five deaths, and almost no effect on everyday life (unlike Covid). If we put monkeypox in ongoing it will probably be there for months, as the outbreak isn't coming under control any time soon. I see no reason to give this additional coverage, at least for now. If there's a major expansion of impacts I'll be willing to reconsider. Modest Geniustalk11:11, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support - The current events portal has had nothing but nonstop stories about monkeypox on an international scale. It doesn't matter how this compares to COVID-19 or not; it's in the news, and it's continuously in the news.--🌈WaltCip-(talk)13:25, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Honestly, this conversation is premature. It could take another two weeks before the item falls of the main section of ITN. Let's consider it then. -- Vaulter13:33, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support but for a limited time, like 2 weeks. It may not be as serious or impactful as COVID but there are efforts to try to stop the spread, so a limited time awareness on the Main Page would not hurt. After that, any further mpox stories would need to be a regular ITNC blurb. --Masem (t) 15:39, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Opposeongoing While it is obviously worrying, it doesn't warrant ongoing just because WHO has declared it a global health emergency. As far as I recall, the Zika virus epidemic also wasn't posted to ongoing. That said, if it continues to be in the news, it might be warranted to post it to ongoing. Gust Justice (talk) 20:49, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Modest Genius and adding that the target article hasn't had many significant content edits other than the flag salad because there really isn't much going on here. --LaserLegs (talk) 21:14, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose. Despite wide extent, there has only been one death. This is not a MINIMUMDEATHS argument, but an acknowledgement that unlike events like Ebola, this epidemic’s impact both on affected individuals and the public at large is absolutely minimal. 142.127.118.145 (talk) 06:49, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Russian forces shell Bakhmut in Donetsk Oblast with the BM-27 UraganMLRS, killing three civilians and injuring three others. Six apartment blocks and six detached houses are also destroyed or damaged. (Ukrinform)
Russian missiles strike Kropyvnytskyi, damaging facilities owned by Kropyvnytskyi Flight Academy and Air Urga. Five people are killed and 25 others are injured. (Yahoo! News)
Authorities in Hanover, Germany, turn off heating and switch to cold showers in all public buildings, and also shut off public water fountains amid an energy crisis after Gazprom reduced gas supplies to Germany through its Nord Stream pipeline. (BBC News)
Authorities in Berlin turn off lights at historic monuments and municipal buildings in the city in order to save electricity. (The Guardian)
The United States Congress passes the Chips and Science Act of 2022 in order to boost semiconductor production in the United States and also boost competition with China. The bill will head to PresidentJoe Biden for his signature. (CNBC)
Russia hands over a protest note to the Lithuanian Ministry of Foreign Affairs as Šiaulių bankas, the only bank authorised to process payments for Kaliningrad rail transit, announced that it would phase out all payments in Russian rubles in mid-August and ban all payments from Russia and Belarus, unless for humanitarian purposes or in order to fulfil international obligations, on 1 September. (LRT)
Cameras are allowed to film a criminal court case in England and Wales for the first time in history as a man, Ben Oliver, is sentenced to prison at London's Old Bailey for manslaughter on live television. (Reuters)
Science
Researchers using AlphaFold have predicted the structures of 200 million proteins from 1 million species, covering nearly every known protein on the planet. (Nature)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
There are still a handful of {cn} tags in the prose. Sources are also missing for his two goals in the Career Statistics section. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 02:10, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Strong oppose as too soon and therefore factually incorrect. The Games hasn't yet begun, so should not be nominated yet. Also, don't we usually post the opening ceremony article anyway? And "Concerns and controversies" section is unsourced, there are blank sections that just point to other articles (which is not correct way to do sections), so article needs a cleanup, and does not meet article quality standards. Joseph2302 (talk) 15:44, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It seems to me, User:Joseph2302 that this oppose is a bit overfastidious given you posted a few minutes before the gates opened for the opening ceremony, with people already in the stadium! I don't see a big deal about posting a few hours early, given how long these things seem to get posted. Will you now removed your objection? Nfitz (talk) 01:08, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This is on ITNR, template adjusted. The article is in pretty good shape, but the orange-level tagged section needs addressing so this is not ready yet. Also we need to wait for it to actually start. Only the original blurb is suitable, not the alts. Modest Geniustalk16:06, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I've dealt with most of the tags. One that has been semi-left is the uncited section on concerns and controversies, which I commented out for an unrelated reason (content fork, discussion open at the talkpage). I couldn't comment on if it should be posted to main page until this is resolved. Kingsif (talk) 20:47, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Shouldn't it really be "Birmingham, England, United Kingdom"? Since England is a constituent country of the UK? Like we do for the US in ITN, with "Miami, Florida, United States". -- RockstoneSend me a message!02:42, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The United Kingdom is not one team, it is split up into the 4 countries therefore I think that Birmingham,England is a better option Haris920 (talk) 14:55, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The Tour de France finished on 24 July but we are still having that hook pictured. Is it time to move on? I've had a look and the 2022 Luzon earthquake has no good photos yet. Hence, the 2022 Commonwealth Games is the logical candidate. The photo showing the mascot shown above is ok. Another ok photo is the Queen's Baton Relay photo added to this thread. Schwede6604:04, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article needs updating Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Needs some more sourcing, but hopefully listing it here will get it more visibility for finding updaters. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:57, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support I think it’s worth saying somewhere that Bernard was arguably the UK’s Betty White and, were he American, this would be a blurb proposal. Humbledaisy (talk)
Support I have done all I can to verify all the statements needing citations in the sections tagged. A beloved actor from here in the UK who will be dearly missed by the nation and everyone that watched him. CaptainGalaxy22:08, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The remaining issue is TV Filmography. I usually would hit BFI or TV Guide for help here, but they are wanting. Are there any reliable sites specifically for British TV credits? GreatCaesarsGhost00:41, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If this was "the most read article on Wikipedia yesterday", then clearly rushing to promote it on ITN isn't needed since it's been found by those who want to read it. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:24, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The reason to rush is that, when famous people die, there is a huge spike in readership of their articles due to the news coverage. RD at ITN therefore has no useful function as a gatekeeper. It should post entries for such people in a timely fashion so that editors who read the main page are getting up-to-date information rather than stale news. If they are active editors they will then be able to help improve the article while the public is still reading it. "Strike while the iron is hot". Andrew🐉(talk) 08:49, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The Burundi Human Rights Initiative (BHRI) accuses Burundi of sending troops into the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) to fight the RED-Tabara, a Burundian armed opposition group. The BHRI also accuses Burundi of supporting armed groups that oppose the DRC. (Al Jazeera)
Russian energy company Gazprom reduces the amount of natural gas flowing through the Nord Stream 1 pipeline from Russia to Europe to 20% of the pipeline's capacity. (AP)
The Joint Coordination Center opens in Istanbul, Turkey, to coordinate the export of millions of tonnes of grain from blockaded Black Sea ports. (Al Jazeera)
The United States offers to exchange imprisoned Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout for detained Americans Brittney Griner and Paul Whelan, who are accused of drug offenses and spying, respectively. (CNN)
A majority of Tunisian voters approve a new constitution, proposed by PresidentKais Saied as a solution to the country's ongoing political crisis. However, voter turnout was only 30.5%, due to a boycott of the referendum by opposition parties. (AP)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
I've added a {cn} tag for his job description at IBM. The list of his radio shows at the end of the wikipage should also be sourced, particularly those bullet-points not mentioned in the prose. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 12:43, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
This wikibio has almost 1600 words and way longer than enough to qualify. Formatting looks fine. Footnotes can be found at expected spots. And Earwig has found no issues. This wikibio is READY for RD to me. One small issue, not bad enough to scuttle this nom, is that the quote at the end of the Broadcasting section needs a better source -- the current footnote links to a non-specific page of BBC's Interview Archive and cannot be used for verification purposes. --PFHLai (talk) 19:44, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Covered by major int'l news agencies. The Philippines hasn't had a widespread destructive earthquake like this in years. Brings something new to the ITN box since it's been pretty stagnant for a while. Dora the Axe-plorer (explore) 10:05, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Same reasons with the person above me. Additionally, the death toll just increased to ten after 4 bodies were found under landslide rubble. Moctiwiki (Moctalk to me) 11:26, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support. Borderline impact and limited international media coverage, but the article is pretty good. I would avoid listing the number of deaths and injuries in the blurb, as that's likely to change and we don't want a constant flood of update requests at WP:ERRORS. Altblurb added. Modest Geniustalk12:48, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Frankly, I think the same as Abductive and Sca. It's not a "major" earthquake, especially considering that the Philippines is a very seismic country. In fact I would consider almost "ordinary" the low number of fatalities it has caused. The fact that other similar earthquakes have been posted is not an argument that this one should be included. _-_Alsor (talk) 20:10, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article needs updating Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
There is a {cn} tag in the prose for the sentence about the subject's birth & parents. The Filmography and Awards sections need to be sourced. (Some footnotes from the prose can be re-used in the tables.) Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 14:07, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Not sure on the article, the political crisis is probably best but it needs work. 🌈 4🧚♂amKING 👑 22:36, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support in principle, oppose on quality - I think the main article should be 2022 Iraq Parliament attack, but this article needs expansion. The main article in the proposed blurb only has one sentence about the storming event. Once this is fixed, consider this vote a support. EditMaker Me (talk) 06:49, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I'm a bit confused as to what exactly happened here. Reading the articles and sources, it sounds like a protest where they breached the Parliament building. Were there any significant casualties, or serious material damage? Sources mention the protestors were "largely nonviolent" [5]. As I understand it, protests happen a lot in and around the Green Zone [6][7][8], and this isn't even the first time they stormed the building [9]. What makes this event more notable? YD407OTZ (talk) 09:21, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Comment The OP should self-close this until the article is expanded otherwise it's going to die 1000 opposes and the nom never recover. --LaserLegs (talk) 18:50, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Missourians have just discovered flooding? Floods occur in every corner of the globe. Just because St. Louis floods is no more important than if a city in another part of the planet floods, even where I live. With only one fatality and no extraordinary and notorious measure, this is far from ITNR-worthy. Suggest snow close. _-_Alsor (talk) 19:00, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Without getting into the article quality issues, which need to be fixed regardless before this gets posted, this is basicially just a local weather event, without much coverage outside of the affected area. Also the damage doesnt seem to be nearly as severe as other recent flooding events such as the ones in Germany last year.🌈 4🧚♂amKING 👑 20:47, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Importantly though it also has to be in the news, when I search on Google News for articles on "floods" in the last week, there's more hits on the floods in southern Iran, Pakistan and Rajasthan than this. 🌈 4🧚♂amKING 👑 21:21, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose if we didn't cover a heatwave on a whole continent (Europe), we shouldn't be posting an article for a flood in one state. That article is barely notable, AFD is probably a better venue for it. Joseph2302 (talk) 22:33, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If all excess deaths during a week of flooding were automatically presumed water-related the way we blame the heat, the two tolls could be comparable. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:06, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
LOL this is what anti-American bias looks like. "I'm outraged because didn't post the weather thing in Europe" - "we did post the weather thing in Europe" - "oh, well, we STILL can't post this because it's not notable". Pure comedy. It took a few seconds to find, but we posted some random floods in India in 2021 with 3 supports in about 9 hours but I guess because America actually enforces building codes and doesn't have scores of deaths it doesn't matter right? FFS. --LaserLegs (talk) 00:33, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Did we not just have a talk page discussion about civility and handling of news items? This attitude is not helping at all. Masem (t) 00:38, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oh the anti-America hatred and dismissiveness would have come out with or without me. Any minute now someone is going to come by barking about gun violence then an admin will supervote "snow" close. You can call me an ass for saying it out loud, but you can't tell me I'm wrong we all know it's true. --LaserLegs (talk) 00:57, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose "Wet" storms (floods, tornados, hurricanes) are common events in the US at this time of year. Unless we're talking the devastation like that of Hurricane Katrina, limited flooding like this is not really ITN significant. --Masem (t) 00:40, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Oppose for now, pending article improvements. Article needs expansion and some rewriting; information in the lead is not expanded on at all in the body, with conflicting numbers (lead mentions 40 deaths, only 11 are mentioned in the body, for example). Light on details overall. --Jayron3216:09, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality, support on notability. A tad too short/barebones in my opinion. Added ALT2 as well with better wording. The Kip (talk) 16:38, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose' accidents from illegal alcohol are standard in India and in the absence of any political rumblings, it is no different from daily vehicle crashes and bombings in a war zone Bumbubookworm (talk) 23:43, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as unfortunately this seems to be reasonably common, and it isn't even the largest of these alcohol poisonings in recent years. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:25, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's comments: Referendum marked by a low turnout. The results limit the role of the parliament and expands the president's powers. The blurb can be changed accordingly. NoonIcarus (talk) 12:59, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support in principle, but not ready. A new constitution is definitely important enough to merit a blurb. The article is generally in good shape, but needs at least a referenced paragraph of prose on the outcome - even the 'reactions' section is all people expressing opinions on holding the referendum, not responding to the results. The blurb is also tricky - the original proposal makes it sound like they've just approved holding the referendum, not the new constitution, while alt1 is too long. I've added alt2. Modest Geniustalk13:44, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The article has been substantially improved over recent days. Looks good to me. The only opposes were on article quality grounds, so I'm marking ready. Modest Geniustalk14:44, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality as per Modest Genius. Once article is fixed with more text about the outcome, consider this vote a support. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:04, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support good to go. But as Tone states, this is older than the oldest item in ITN. Maybe it can replace the Commonwealths... _-_Alsor (talk) 18:07, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's comments: Ongoing event from July 24–29, updated daily by me; perhaps an ITN listing will encourage other interested editors to join in as well. Yeeno (talk) 02:59, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Close - What little consensus there might have been for including this event on ITN was explicitly associated with posting a blurb and not as an ongoing item.--🌈WaltCip-(talk)14:56, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Comment — The Pope's visit to Canada is not particularly notable, although the events surrounding it, such as the Pope's apology on the Catholic Church's role in administering many of the residential schools in Canada, is notable. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him)03:03, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support adding as ITN, not Ongoing Event. Per ElijahPepe, events related to the visit is notable, involving a significant portion of Canadian history. Carter00000 (talk) 03:12, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Amended to support for ITN as event is fairly short term to be placed in ongoing events.
Support An unprecedented show of compassion, understanding and regret in a centuries-old conflict, article seems in good hands, a known duration. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:50, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The Pope visits foreign countries all the time and makes front page news wherever he goes. Did we run his speech to a joint session of the United States Congress? Thriley (talk) 03:59, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I think the focus of the nomination is not so much on the Pope visiting Canada, but the purpose of the visit, which is to apologise for actions involving the Catholic Church. Carter00000 (talk) 04:03, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Francis has made major speeches and published papers about the climate crisis and sex abuse in the church. Have any of these been run? Thriley (talk) 04:15, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
He made a very similar apology in 2018 for the terrible things the church did in Ireland. I don’t think his current visit is much different. Irish Times article comparing the two visits: [11] . Should ITN become the Pope Francis news ticker? If this trip runs, then subsequent trips should run as well. Most papal trips involve a meaningful apology or statement about global affairs. Thriley (talk) 04:41, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Most opposes were based on a lack of action. Touring Canada is an action. I doubt you'll see how it's significant still, but others may have changed. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:03, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support ITN, oppose ongoing This is a significant event with historical ramifications both for Indigenous Peoples, the Roman Catholic Church, and the Papacy of Pope Francis. Ongoing is supposed to be things that are in the news long-term and develop continually, such as Covid or Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
Comment, I'm alright with the article run on ITN, but if we focus on the apology then it would benefit readers if the page described the varied reactions to it. I haven't gotten to that yet as I've just been making daily updates, though anyone is welcome to start on a new section or paragraph. Yeeno (talk) 08:43, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You are going to have to make the changes in the article first before nominating an appropriate blurb for ITN. Even then there is not currently consensus for posting at all. Polyamorph (talk) 11:39, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose both blurb and ongoing. This is less notable than the apology itself, which wasn't posted months ago. Blurb would in theory be better than ongoing anyway, but this isn't blurb-worthy, as it a small part of a wider event, and we didn't post the most significant thing he did, which was apologise in the first place. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:51, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose both. I just don't think this is important enough. Repeating the existing apology is a footnote to the previous story we decided wasn't important enough to blurb back in April. Otherwise the Pope seems to have done nothing significant on this visit. Modest Geniustalk12:28, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose both – Long planned/expected, this visit by the pope to retroactively apologize for historical events lacks general significance or impact beyond a discrete group of Canadians. (The main item of general interest would seem to be photos of Francis wearing an 'Indigenous' headdress.) – Sca (talk) 13:04, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb – To me this feels like the type of article ITN is perfectly suited for, and I appreciate the daily updating (keep it up!). The importance of this specific moment is relatively low compared to other ITNs, but if we haven't covered the apology at all yet, this would be the perfect moment to do so. It is certainly of general interest. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 13:05, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose both this is not at all more remarkable than the Pope's forgiveness for the sexual abuse of minors by the Church and the actions he is taking in that direction. It is notable no doubt for Canda, but it is of little relevance internationally and therefore by ITNR. _-_Alsor (talk) 13:48, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb, oppose ongoing This is a current event reliable news sources are covering appropriately; and the article is of sufficient quality for the main page. --Jayron3214:35, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose both The church has already apologized for this, a prior pope issued an "expression of sorrow" and this pope has apologized for other atrocities. There is a spirit of incrementalism that suggests we could do this again and again. What happened here doesn't change anything substantial, nor does it reflect a change in the position of the papacy or the church at large. GreatCaesarsGhost16:08, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Three UN peacekeepers and seven civilians are killed during an attack on a MONUSCO base by protesters in Butembo, Democratic Republic of the Congo. (Al Jazeera)
Flooding occurs in parts of St. Louis, Missouri, United States, killing at least one person, as the city reports a daily rainfall record of more than 7 in (180 mm). (CNN)
At least 40 people have died and 50 others have become ill after consuming illegally brewed alcohol in Gujarat, India. Several suspected bootleggers have been detained in connection with the deaths, according to Gujarat Police. (NDTV)(AP)
Article needs updating Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Oppose - Stub, also there is nothing about him being an MP, except it says it was in 1984 (when did it end) - Also WP says elections were held in West Bengal in 1982 and 1987 so maybe some source is wrong Bumbubookworm (talk) 02:48, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I grossly misjudged my ability to get some time from my off-wiki / real-life commitments to get some edits into this article. Unfortunately, will not be able to work on this one. RIP. Ktin (talk) 04:32, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Important British scientist and environmentalist, died on 103rd birthday. Article is mostly pretty good, a few bits unsourced. Black Kite (talk)14:25, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose needs a few more sources. Pretty decent article apart from that, so would be a shame if the few minor sourcing issues cannot be fixed. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:15, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps some have now been fixed by others. I tagged a few sentences for which I could not find the source. But as there are only a few as far as I noticed I don't think that is enough to prevent a blurb. Suggest any sentences which remain unsourced can just be deleted if necessary. Chidgk1 (talk) 15:49, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb - career spanning more than seven decades. The kind of scientist you would expect to be blurbed. Worldwide coverage. Kirill C1 (talk) 15:32, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb, RD only I do not believe that "death blurbs" are to be given out as some sort of lifetime achievement award. They should only be for when the death is the story, because of the outpouring of grief in society or if the nature of the death itself is newsworthy. This is the death of a 103 year old man, with a remarkable career no doubt, which is what RD is for. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:02, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Most people who have Wikipedia biographies have had a "remarkable career". I didn't agree to those blurbs and I don't agree to this one either. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:53, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not most. They just have significant coverage on them, there aplenty of footballers who played in lower leagues or actors who had minor roles. Or celebrities, about whom we can not say that they did smth remarkable. Kirill C1 (talk) 18:56, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Major figures being blurbed should be an ultra rare exception, and not normalised in any way. WP:ITNRD specifically states that if a person is more famous for what they did when alive, it belongs in an RD link and not a blurb. If we blurb someone it should be because the manner in which they died is notable and deserves further clarification. But if an "exceptional career" were the bar for a blurb then ITN would just be an obituary wall. 🌈 4🧚♂amKING 👑 03:48, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD, oppose blurb. The article looks in decent enough shape. He certainly had a long and wide-ranging career, but his scientific impact doesn't meet the 'transformative' criterion for me. The Gaia hypothesis is philosophical and has as many attackers as defenders. Certainly well known with the public for his books and environmental campaigning, but I don't think that's blurb-worthy. Modest Geniustalk18:46, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"Certainly well known with the public for his books and environmental campaigning, but I don't think that's blurb-worthy." Then which scientist desrves blurb? Kirill C1 (talk) 18:56, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
The UK's National Trust says that an outbreak of bird flu on the Farne Islands in the North Sea has killed over 3,000 wild birds. However, the actual death toll is estimated to be around ten times higher because birds may have fallen into the sea. (BBC News)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: The inaugural first minister of Northern Ireland. He won a Nobel Peace Prize with John Hume for their work negotiating the Good Friday Agreement. Some unsourced statements and CN tags floating around, but not as many as there were earlier. Sourcing looks good now. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 00:24, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support – article is well-referenced and meets minimum depth of coverage for ITN. All unsourced and citation needed tags addressed (at the time of writing). —Bloom6132 (talk) 00:50, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
It's much better now. I couldn't find refs for a couple of them, but two or three missing sources should not hold this up from being posted. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:53, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I can't believe a major actor's filmography actually got fully sourced in a timely fashion for RD. That happens not very often at all. 🌈WaltCip-(talk)23:40, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Support - I went to the CNN and BBC articles that are linked and they are at the top page. While authoritarian regimes still murder dissidents, it is unusual to bother with a show trial. Normally they just fake a traffic accident, poisoning etc and pretend to not be involved. The first listed person was also an MP Bumbubookworm (talk) 07:55, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sham trials occur all the time. I don't recall too many where they actually execute political dissidents recently, usually it is an imprisonment. Murders that are falsely presented as accidents are common, but here they are 'proudly' self-identifying it as a state-sanctioned murder to try and intimidate the population Bumbubookworm (talk) 11:51, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support First time capital punishment is executed since 1988 is defitnetly notable, defitnetly in terms of degragation of human rights in the country following the coup.🌈 4🧚♂amKING 👑 09:22, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment According to the AP, the last time Myanmar performed an execution was in 1976 (another political prisoner of a military dictator), with death row prisoners having their sentences commuted in 2014. rawmustard (talk) 11:45, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Death penalty applies to 55 countries. But Myanmar is special: Its against the Democracy and human rights movement. Grimes2 (talk) 10:37, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support – per Bumbubookworm. Political opponents hanged after a closed-door legal proceeding. Widely & prominently covered, connoting significant notoriety for the military dictatorship. AP, Guardian, Reuters, BBC. – Sca (talk) 13:04, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Question/oppose: is the nomination specifically for the deaths of the two named individuals, or for the resumption of capital punishment in Burma for the first time in decades? If the former, the biographies don't make them sound significant enough to merit a blurb, though perhaps they're incomplete at present. If the latter, capital punishment in Myanmar should be the bold link - but it's a stub that requires major work. Modest Geniustalk14:34, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose If the two named individuals are the target articles of this blurb, then Kyaw Min Yu's article needs expansion and Zayar Thaw's article needs some ref work. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 14:52, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb as per Modest Genius. If the notability/ITN-worthiness is for the resumption of capital punishment in Burma (which is what a number of people voting support here look to have been voting for), then Capital punishment in Myanmar is the appropriate target, and so this fails article quality. If it's the deaths of these two people specifically, then those articles need to be improved, and I'm not convinced they're notable enough people to be blurbed anyway (so they should just be put onto RD). Joseph2302 (talk) 14:56, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support the combination of the political salience, including a former MP, and the fact these are the first executions conducted in Burma in decades, make this a particularly unusual and thus notable event. The ramifications are serious and far ranging; we can reasonably expect the junta's isolation to deepen, the growing armed resistance to be galvanized, and the safety of higher profile detainees like ASSK to come into question. --Varavour (talk) 18:33, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I don't think this is notable enough to be blurbed. The fact that these are the first executions since 1976 doesn't really change anything for me. YD407OTZ (talk) 20:14, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is a high-profile human rights case. Also we do post the deaths of government MPs due to assassination. Why should “legal” execution by the country’s military junta get treated any differently? 142.127.118.145 (talk) 07:49, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support.* This is the first time this happens in decades and receives some notability, however like the others said, the articles aren't that well written and need polishing. Other than that I support this. Twistedaxe (talk) 08:37, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
We don't post the same thing on RD and blurbs. And disagree that the other two people "need articles too", unless they pass WP:GNG (and not just for being executed). Also, the blurb for this should link to the article about executions, but that article is junk. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:14, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry I don't think I've worded myself well enough. I would support Support blurb on notability but oppose on quality and due to lack of target article. If we blurb, then all 4 people need to mentioned, because the event would pass notability per consensus. If blurb fails, then support 2x RDs for the two people who are notable enough for the two articles, i.e. conditional 2x RD support. Abcmaxx (talk) 12:47, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
The text in the summary looks good, but some of it doesn't have sources listed. I would suggest a minimum of one source per paragraph, even if it means repeating sources. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:32, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not ready. The text in race summary is fine, but it's largely unreferenced. I would like to see at least one citation per stage to support the summary given (it's fine to repeat references). If/when that's fixed, we should go with the original blurb above, as his nationality doesn't seem particularly relevant or surprising. Modest Geniustalk11:58, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The Sakurajimavolcano in Kyushu, Japan, erupts. Around 120 residents in two nearby towns are ordered to evacuate even though minimal damages are reported. (Al Jazeera)
Italian vessels recover five bodies and rescue 674 people packed on a fishing boat adrift in the Mediterranean off the Libyan coast, while European charities rescue 500 people. (AP)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Oppose I did a quick search and he also served in some soccer administration posts, started some businesses, which are not covered. He also participated in/missed some Olympic qualifying campaigns, which should be outlined because international level competition is higher than domestic competition Bumbubookworm (talk) 21:13, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The depth of coverage for this article is sufficient, as all major points of his life are covered. What you are asking for is a resume in prose format, which is actually a reason to oppose an RD nom. Spencer, Stephen: I think this may be ready to go. —Bloom6132 (talk) 21:22, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment@Bloom6132: you've marked this as needing attention, but there's an unaddressed Oppose above. If there are important details missing then they should be added before posting. Otherwise, if you disagree with the above assessment by Bumbubookworm then please reply to the Comment stating why, so that an admin and others can properly assess it. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 06:29, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I think the oppose has some merit since I don't think the article adequately covers Oliver's non-soccer life. After his playing career, he had his own Public policy consulting firm, was involved in promoting study circles in the U.S. (and wrote a book about it Study Circles: Coming Together for Personal Growth and Social Change) One possible source: [16] There is also other info about his international career beyond "resume" information in an interview in which he talks about his international career being derailed by injuries and health issues [17]. I think it merits mentioning in the article, and can be done in away that it's not a resume in prose format. SpencerT•C03:30, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: British actor, known for his villain roles in Tron and Time Bandits among others. Someone is working to source the filmography but the body of the article needs help too before this can be posted Masem (t) 12:27, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article updated The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Weak support. The article reaches our minimum requirements and this is on ITNR. But there's something very underwhelming about the prose, the background section is yellow-level tagged etc. Could definitely be improved, though is just about postable now. Modest Geniustalk12:17, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per above. ITNR is a higher standard, not a lower one. There is more time and sources to draw on for these highly significant events. GreatCaesarsGhost12:55, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality as the prose is short (the match summary is one paragraph), and the background section is basically non-existent. Instead, the biggest section of text is a massive post-match quote farm. This is not sufficient article quality for the front page. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:59, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support, This article has been updated and improved substantially to a level suitable to reach requirements for ITN. All sections, including the match summary and the background sections have been extended, with many reliable sources added. It is hard to comprehend that last year's page with less sources and detail, as well as a shorter background and match summary sections, was featured on ITN, but this year's article, which features traditional sections like the 2019, 2018 or 2017 finals, is not. Edl-irishboy (talk) 13:51, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: Surprising results... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prodrummer619 (talk • contribs) 18:34, 2022 July 24 (UTC)
Oppose - Standard issue with sports tournaments articles, tables upon tables upon tables with little to no prose. Also worth noting this is a regional tournament and not the world cup, thus not in ITN/R. 🌈 4🧚♂amKING 👑 18:48, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose regional sports championship is not ITN worthy. Also article has a distinct lack of prose about the event (as seems to be the problem with many sports articles). Joseph2302 (talk) 18:50, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose due to a lack of prose or anything that isn't tables or stats. I disagree with the idea that this shouldn't be posted at all because it's a regional sports championship, however, as the NBA finals have been posted here before. CaptainGalaxy21:08, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The NBA is the biggest basketball tournament in the world. This is a regional tournament between countries that aren't highly rated at the aport. Joseph2302 (talk) 22:49, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Oppose not a strong enough tournament. Australia was the only team in the top 20 in the world, and I clicked on the list of players, and only one of them was in the NBA, the rest were in the local Aus league which pays v little and is of v low quality. All the Aus players from bronze medal Olympic team of last year, most of whom were long-time NBA players, decided to skip the tournament so Australia were represented by second and maybe third stringers Bumbubookworm (talk) 22:18, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The what? Is basketball even a notable sport in Asia? Though perhaps it could be a "Did you know that 2022 FIBA Asia Cup final was contested by two countries that arguably aren't in Asia?" ☺ Nfitz (talk) 22:35, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Two RussianKalibrcruise missiles hit Odesa's port less than a day after a deal to export grain from Ukraine was signed between Russia and Ukraine. Initial reports indicate no related infrastructure damage. (AP)
Fitch Ratings downgrades the Ukrainian debt outlook to "C", one grade above default, due to requests from Ukrainian authorities to postpone payments on bonds. (Bloomberg)
Flash floods kill at least 21 people after the Roudbal River overflowed in Estahban, Fars Province, Iran. Fifty-five others are rescued and six others remain missing. (AP)
Ten people are killed and seven are injured after a mountainside slope collapses in Jingtai County, Gansu, China. (AP)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Thanks for sourcing the Filmography. There are also a handful of {cn} tags in the prose, and a {better source needed} for a iMDb ref. --PFHLai (talk) 07:14, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
(Posted) Monkeypox declared Public Health Emergency of International Concern
Nominator's comments: It seems extremely likely that WHO is going to declare this a PHEIC (Press conference in about an hour) . I thought it doesn't hurt to start talking about it now already (would be nice to have it up in ITN in a timely manner).
Comment Pretty sure that in the past monkeypox nominations that this was said to be the point we would post it, so assuming that is what is decided it seems fair to post, pending article updates. --Masem (t) 13:06, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I would argue it should replace covid in ongoing, given how much more coverage this is getting over that, but thats a different discussion. It's definitely time. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 13:19, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support I opposed this previously - but this is what I said should be the trigger. I don't see that it should be ongoing though - the death toll is zero in most countries, and only a handful world-wide. The daily Covid death toll is still staggering, the impacts are felt by almost everyone most days, and the news is still full of coverage. Nfitz (talk) 15:19, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support WHO declared PHEIC. Emergency committee didn't reach consensus, so Director-General Tedros made the final determination to issue highest WHO alert. AkiraRorschach (talk) 15:25, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
The introduction mentions that she was "recognised ... for her unique chants", but the article lacks info on these chants of hers. Any examples? --PFHLai (talk) 01:25, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for adding that. This wikibio is still a tad short (less than 400 words of prose), but it's long enough to qualify. It has footnotes where they are expected and has no formatting problems. And, Earwig found no problems. This is READY for RD to me. Some mention of the black armbands worn by the players in her memory in last night's game would be nice, methinks. I was looking for an RS for this, but haven't found one written in past tense yet. Maybe later. --PFHLai (talk) 14:32, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose per both of the above. The point of ITN significance is not even when the winner of the contest is announced, it's when they take over as prime minister (unless Boris chooses not to resign as PM, but if that happens that will be the story to evaluate for ITN). Thryduulf (talk) 08:56, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Transnistrian Foreign Minister Vitaly Ignatyev reaffirms that Transnistria is committed to becoming an independent state and is open to the possibility of uniting with Russia in the future. (AP)
Three family members are killed at a campground in Maquoketa Caves State Park, Iowa, United States, with a fourth remaining unharmed. The park is subsequently closed, and the gunman is later found dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. (The Des Moines Register)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: considered an "indispensable icon" of Catalan culture and one of the most popular singers in Catalonia. I created her article a bit quickly, but I think the basics are there. _-_Alsor (talk) 16:02, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Taiwan reports a record temperature of 40.7 °C (105.3 °F) in Yuli. However, this measurement is not officially recognized by Taiwanese authorities because it was reported by an automated station. (Taiwan News)(CNA Taiwan)
An An, the world's longest-living male giant panda under human care, dies at Ocean Park Hong Kong aged 35. An An was a key part of the conservation activities for giant pandas. (RTHK)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose You're new here, so I hope that everyone who comments here will be nice. Having COVID when you are double-vaxxed and double-boosted, like Biden is, makes the virus no worse than a cold. He'll be fine. This is a non-story for ITN purposes. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:19, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not gonna lie, that certainly wasn't my experience with covid, and I got it after I got my second booster. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 23:36, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
For a fully vaccinated and double-boosted president of the United States getting COVID-19 is unusual, which is why I nominated this. FAdesdae37823:38, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose A person catching covid isn't news-worthy for ITN purposes. doesn't matter if that person is god himself. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 23:37, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Unlike when Trump and Boris Johnson got it in the earlier stages of the pandemic, it doesn't seem to be affecting his ability to carry out his duties. Pawnkingthree (talk) 23:40, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
That wasn't quite official. The 2019 Chinese paper only recommended that the IUCN list the fish as extinct, and did not have the power to actually do so — the IUCN has the final word on that. And though the IUCN agreed to list it extinct, the actual listing wasn't done until now. Zach Varmitech (talk) 23:54, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Significant development in wildlife conservation. Media/press reports are current and indicate that the official status was only just changed. Article appears to be in decent shape. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:24, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose thousands of species go extinct every year, it's not clear to me why this extinction is anything extraordinary, and therefore ITN worthy. Also, article quality is an issue too: the article has lots of content about the 2022 extinction in the lead that isn't in the main body of the article (and thus seems to violate MOS:LEAD), and has an orange tagged section. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:17, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
A possible notability argument could be the flagship species case, however, it does not seem from the article that any conservation efforts were taken specifically for this species. In general, I'd support mentioning of extinct species as long as the article is in a good shape. Tone12:29, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The Chinese paddlefish was one of only two species of paddlefish in the entire world, with the fossil record of paddlefish stretching back over 120 million years into the Early Cretaceous. It had also probably been divergent from the American paddlefish, from which is strongly distinct in morphology and diet, for many tens of millions of years. It's not just some random lake chicilid with hundreds of other species like it, but almost one of a kind. Hemiauchenia (talk) 13:27, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support It's not just this species. The full announcement says "The global sturgeon reassessment published today reveals that 100% of the world’s remaining 26 sturgeon species are now at risk of extinction, up from 85% in 2009. The assessments are based on refined calculations which show their decline over the past three generations to be steeper than previously thought. The Yangtze Sturgeon (Acipenser dabryanus) has moved from Critically Endangered to Extinct in the Wild, 17 species are now Critically Endangered, three are Endangered and five are Vulnerable on the IUCN Red List. The reassessment has also confirmed the extinction of the Chinese Paddlefish (Psephurus gladius)." Andrew🐉(talk) 11:38, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support One of the largest freshwater fish in the world? And morphologically unique? This is an extinction of huge value and should definitely be reported. -- Maykii (talk) 14:32, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Just saying, if encyclopedias had news sections, this item would be one of the items you'd expect to see there, and not like you know, races on rivers and asphalt. Howard the Duck (talk) 14:41, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support. I'm cognizant that many species are declared extinct each year, and we can't feature all of them. This does seem an unusually significant species and the article is pretty good, plus there's a clear explanation of why it went extinct (overfishing and dam construction). Just about crosses the bar for me. Modest Geniustalk17:53, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Famous German footballer. Article needs a couple of sources but otherwise ready to go. SoWhy15:25, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not ready. Firstly, we need to get 2022 Indian presidential election into the blurb (altblurb added). Secondly, both that article and Murmu's have orange-level tags on them, which disqualifies them from posting. Those articles need some substantial work before we can consider posting. Modest Geniustalk15:32, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality as both article on her and the election are orange-tagged. ALT1 follows the standard pattern for election articles, so should be the one we use if the articles are fixed. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:27, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support on principle, but oppose on quality. The ceremonial head of state argument is a weak one, as many heads of state are ceremonial yet enormously symbolic. We also have precedent for posting the ceremonial president of Ireland, a much less globally significant country than India. AryKun (talk) 07:25, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Make that argument the next time a white man is nominated, because there was not one oppose vote for Higgins due to significance (there are three here). We must be pragmatic about how our collective choices reflect the voice of WP. GreatCaesarsGhost15:37, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose mainly on quality (there are unsourced statements like "Murmu, was criticized for her soft stand on police aggression against tribals during the movement." in her article, let alone bad English and grammar), but (b) I'm unconvinced that a ceremonial head of state that was only elected via an indirect election should be ITN. Black Kite (talk)08:50, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That statement you mention is actually sourced from the ref at the end of its paragraph. Also, I think we sometimes forget just how massive India is that one can become even slightly unconvinced of the significance of the first tribal woman President of India. This 'indirect election' involved more voters than scores of countries could even have. Droupadi Murmu's position as President is likely 10x more significant than the queen of england. –Jiaminglimjm (talk) 10:35, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
When you've got a whole paragraph sourced to a single source it needs to be made clearer on contentious material that this is the case, especially if it's "X accused Y of .." type stuff. Regardless, the whole article needs work (as does the election one). Black Kite (talk)11:45, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
even for mostly ceremonial heads of states, we do have precedent for posting if they're significant or firsts (eg Ethiopia's first female President). Murmu is India's first tribal President, something which is mentioned by almost all the news reports about her. AryKun (talk) 19:23, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The subject has been the top-read article on Wikipedia for the last two days. With multiple spellings. She's not just notable, she is famous. Andrew🐉(talk) 13:21, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
India has had a lot of caste issues for a very long time, and this is the first tribal person to hold the top post, even if it is a ceremonial one. Bumbubookworm (talk) 14:11, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
So you're saying India is a racist society and the notability here comes purely from the appointment to a powerless ceremonial post of someone from an historically maligned demographic? --LaserLegs (talk) 13:58, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"India has" vs "India is" are wildly different statements. The appointment of a tribal person has/had sparked lots and i mean lots of discussion of e.g. whether an Adivasi president as representation is actually effective or not, which I can only assume you are completely ignorant of given your flat dismissal of Droupadi Murmu's significance. –Jiaminglimjm (talk) 14:59, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support: While the president of India indeed is a ceremonial head of state, any change in, say, the monarch of England would be generally accepted as notable enough for the ITN section. Is the monarch of the UK not a ceremonial head of state? Also, this news was shown on the french wikipedia, so i think we should accept it. however, as many have said that the quality of articles is bad, therefore we should reconsider this.Narutmaru (talk) 09:08, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support : She is first tribal and 2nd woman president of India. She is from Santal community which is spread among India, Nepal and Bangladesh. Many tribal organisations in Bangladesh celebrated her win as the President of India. India isa well significant and of strategic significant country in the world while having the 2nd most no of people after China. The Indian community is spread around the world is significant importance even though the position is ceremonial. How many countries have actually nominated tribal people people as head of states? I think it would also help to spread the message about woman empowerment among the underprivileged people. Debjyoti Gorai (talk) 15:40, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately the election article is still a mess, with numerous missing citations and an orange-level tag, so cannot be posted - regardless of how important the story is. It's been seven days yet the article still needs serious work. Modest Geniustalk15:45, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) CommentDroupadi Murmu is not orange-tagged anymore, so seems fine to run as the bolded link on ITN, as it's better quality than the election article. Marked this as needing attention, so admin can either post this or reject this nomination. Joseph2302 (talk) 15:46, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose Doesn’t seem to meet notability standards. One attack as part of the greater ongoing conflict(s) in Syria and Iraq. The Kip (talk) 15:08, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I feel like the time to post this would have been when he announced his resignation. That said, no opposition to posting this now.--🌈WaltCip-(talk)12:10, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This appears to be on his announcement, turning over his intent to resign to the President. He's being asked to stay in that position as caretaken until the next PM is named. Masem (t) 12:16, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
he did resign, the president then asked him to take over in a caretaker role. Boris isn't leading a caretaker government (since there hasn't been a vote of no confidence against his government) so thats the difference. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 12:26, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait per Sca. Our standard practice is to post the change, not the resignation, so let's wait until the name of the new prime minister is known (the case of Boris Johnson is an unfortunate exception and should not be considered a rule).--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 12:40, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
These "exceptions" seem to always favor Anglo-centrism (notice we posted May and Cameron, too). The rationale for posting UK and not posting others is always different, but the result is always the same. GreatCaesarsGhost17:53, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until replacement is announced. After all, he tried to resign a week or two ago, and it got rejected, so absolutely no certainty right now that he'll end up being replaced. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:44, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know what we have to wait for if the vast majority of editors supported without "waiting" the nomination on Boris Johnson's resignation. As I prefer to be congruent and not consider as precedent the posting of BJ's resignation, I oppose this one and effectively wait for Draghi's successor, or for the snap election that have already been called. _-_Alsor (talk) 16:08, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support per the Boris precedent. I'd argue the real news is the resignation anyway, not the inevitable successor (resignation = unexpected, new PM = expected). YD407OTZ (talk) 16:48, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This is automatically ITNR with a new PM though. And Boris and the Twitter acquisition are not good examples or precedents to create or follow. Gotitbro (talk) 19:52, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment From the point of view of a parliamentary democracy, we've seen the coalition lose support in parliament, and a new election is now underway. Normally we don't post stuff when a government falls. So what is his position within his own party? Is there any chance he could remain PM after the election? Johnson is a bit of a different process. The UK government itself is stable; but the party leader himself has resigned in shame in the midst of several scandals. Many of Johnson's scandals were themselves arguably ITN events, but none achieved consensus - so with the camel's back broken ... A more orderly transfer of power, such as when Blair announced he'd resign, would likely not be as notable. Nfitz (talk) 20:47, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support posting now he has actually resigned [26]. The new elections won't be held for at least two months, a big enough gap for us not to wait. The article seems in good shape on a quick look, and has a whole section on the resignation. Modest Geniustalk18:12, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Oppose I think I will delete the "other panda" part that has nothing to do with this panda, which will make the article shorter. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:07, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Ukraine's government, facing an estimated 35% to 45% decrease in GDP, asks its international creditors to freeze its debt payments for two years, including a $1.2 billion debt payment due at the beginning of September. The proposal is backed by major Western governments and other major lenders. (Reuters)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Support - everything looks in order. Not sure about the reliability of Pro Football Archives, but the other sources look fine (without too much digging). Anarchyte (talk) 13:36, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Pioneer of historically informed performance, with her husband. She was concertmaster of the Concentus Musicus Wien for decades, and a member of the orchestra until he retired, so was behind most of the legendary recordings. Also four children. I marked that her article needed expansion earlier this year - and now she died. I wish I could have done more, but need to go for a few days. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:45, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Support short but good enough. If her political career could be extended just a bit further to further demonstrate her major role in the women's rights movement in Switzerland that would be great. _-_Alsor (talk) 09:56, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Field Marshal Lord Inge, former head of the Armed Forces in the UK. Wikibio looks already ready for RD. --PFHLai (talk) 05:11, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article updated The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Comment Doubtful that this will change the course of protests much, considering Wickremesinghe is considered by the protesters to be part of the problem. The big story is the protests and we have to see how they will develop with this news, so i'll say wait. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 09:51, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
i'm only saying if we are replacing the blurb which had the protests bolded, we should see how the protests develop first. Its worth nothing that he is the former prime minister. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 15:54, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment We should definitely note and make a distinction that this was not a general election but an internal government one, otherwise it sounds like he has the support of the electorate which he certainly does not. Added altblurb2Abcmaxx (talk) 10:51, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Gazprom signs a memorandum of understanding for the development of Iranian oil and gas fields and related infrastructure worth $40 billion. (Reuters)
The European Commission proposes a new, joint defense procurement system for EU member states. It would be operational by the end of this year, with initial funding of €500 million. (AP)
The death toll from the wildfires and heat wave in Spain and Portugal increases to more than 1,700 people, with more than 1,063 deaths in Portugal. (ABC News)(Axios)
At least 23 people are killed and 30 others are injured in a truck and bus crash in Minya, Egypt. (ABC News)
Flooding has killed eight people and affected more than 8,500 others in Maradi and Zinder, Niger, since June, according to Civil Protection. (FloodList)
Four people are killed and 13 are injured after a gas explosion in Tianjin, China. (AP)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Had 1,000 yards receiving in a single season, had a 9 year career. Sportsfangnome
Oppose his professional career has two sentences, and only mentions his debut season. Information on the other 8 seasons is needed. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:00, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Stop pinging me, this is getting annoying, as it's the third time I've been pinged. The professional career section is too short in my opinion, and is just a lists of arbitrary stats (why is being 10th best at something important). You can disagree with that if you want, but don't accuse me of any ulterior motives, as these violate WP:NPA. 9 years as a professional player should have more prose about it. Joseph2302 (talk) 20:03, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Lists of stats is not proper prose, which is what this article is. If people think this is good enough, post it- I'm fine with people disagreeing with me, but not people accusing me of some ulterior motive. The fact people are going through my contribution history to pick an argument with me is ridiculous- maybe I should have opposed that article too, but that's in the past. Joseph2302 (talk) 20:14, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No one accused you of "ulterior motives". And a vote made three days ago is hardly "in the past". The fact that you get so defensive about me pointing out your double standards speaks for itself. Next. —Bloom6132 (talk) 20:27, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
The Collaboration section is unsourced. Please add more REFs. And, this wikibio currently has only 298 words of prose. Anything else to write about? Perhaps expanding on things mentioned in the intro and not yet elaborated upon (but really should be) in the main body? --PFHLai (talk) 01:29, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Russia announces Anton Koltsov, former Prime Minister of Vologda Oblast, as the new Prime Minister in Zaporizhzhia Military-Civilian Administration. His appointment probably took place some days earlier.[3]
Russia's Gazprom says that it "cannot guarantee" gas supplies to Europe due to "extraordinary circumstances" as it declares force majeure on gas supplies dating from June 14. (Reuters)
Residents in nine of Shanghai's districts will be required to undergo COVID-19 testing until July 21 as part of an effort to reduce the community spread of COVID-19. (CNA)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Selftaught experimental composer whose works were performed internationally, high awards. He had a practically ref-less article. There's much more in the new refs, especially about teaching (and more awards), and the German Wikipedia has a complete list of his works, but I have to leave him for now to prepare vacation. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:18, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: I've said before that the best way to demonstrate the newsworthiness of specific mass shootings is to nominate all of them that might occur so as to provide an opportunity to compare and contrast. This particular shooting is especially unique because the gunman was shot and killed by another gunman in the vicinity. This does not happen often in the U.S., and may actually work in favor of 2nd Amendment proponents. 🌈WaltCip-(talk)13:30, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait The article is still a stub, and it's not clear yet whether this will get the sort of coverage that will make it ITN-significant. I get the "good guy with a gun" angle, but I'm still doubtful as to whether this will last beyond the 24 hour news cycle. That's in sharp contrast to the Uvalve school shooting and the police response, which is still generating headlines today due to the release of a damning report. Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:46, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This doesn't meet the usual minimum death threshold and is also yet another US shooting, which has been discussed ad nauseam; and gunman shot by another gunman or not, this is simply too commonplace to post each and every one. — Amakuru (talk) 13:50, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose no, you don't have to nominate every single shooting that occurs in America. Don't waste our time. We need to know what the consensus is in Candidates on these events. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 13:55, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - and the nom, even if I am sympathetic to the motivation, appears to be a straightforward POINT violation. If you dont think it belongs here then dont nominate it. nableezy - 14:37, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Ah well, I misread the best way to demonstrate the newsworthiness of specific mass shootings is to nominate all of them that might occur so as to provide an opportunity to compare and contrast. I thought this so obviously failed the requirements that it was one of those meant to compare and contrast with the ones that garner more attention and merit consideration here. Never mind then, oppose as routine, Cam'ron has a line about this that I cant quote here, but along the lines of some things happen everyday. nableezy - 14:46, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I do think we should be more proactive in nominating mass shootings, but I also believe this one is a rare example of one that has a low death toll but still an unusual impact. I believe this will do more to alter the conversation about gun control in the United States than any of the more recent shootings, since politicians can now point to this and say that this is an example of how concealed carry prevents further deaths. 🌈WaltCip-(talk)14:48, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Describing an armed civilian who halted a mass shooting as "another gunman" or a "lone gunman" is horrendously misleading. Kafoxe (talk) 14:38, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Comment "may actually work in favor of 2nd Amendment proponents" Well yes, maybe, if they really want to prove themselves as mental defectives? Let's have more guns, in the hope that any mass shooter will be gunned down by another nearby gunman. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:44, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I, an editor who supports most U.S. mass shootings that are nominated here, do not think that this shooting rises to the level of posting, based on what I know at this time. – Muboshgu (talk) 14:53, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Russian missiles strike the city of Chuhuiv in Kharkiv Oblast, killing three civilians and injuring three others, while more than 50 Grad rockets hit the city of Nikopol in Dnipropetrovsk Oblast, killing two people. The missile strikes come after Russian defence minister Sergei Shoigu ordered the military to expand operations in Ukraine in order to "protect the Donbas". (Reuters)
Israel launches more than a dozen missiles against two Hamas targets in the Gaza Strip, following a number of rockets fired overnight from Gaza into Israel, causing severe damage. No casualties were reported and no civilian structures were targeted or hit. (Voice of America)(Al Jazeera)
The Assembly of North Macedonia passes a motion to amend North Macedonia’s Constitution to recognise its Bulgarian minority, while pledging to discuss remaining issues with the Bulgarian government. In exchange, Bulgaria will allow membership talks with the European Union to begin. (Al Jazeera)
G20 finance leaders end a meeting in Bali without a joint communique, as consensus could not be reached on multiple issues due to tensions caused by ongoing conflicts between the countries. (CNBC)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Founder of the Visa network. Not too well known outside the financial services industry, but seriously impactful within it. 82.13.211.75 (talk) 22:01, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Not really sure how to do a blurb for this since it spans so many countries, which each have historic things happening. It seems that two main parts to this heat wave are significant international news. (1): 281 fatalities and (2) the UK’s first ever red extreme heat warning. Fully open to alternative blurbs, but both of those seem to be the largest significant events for this heat wave. Elijahandskip (talk) 20:12, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support in principle but this needs some restructuring and/or splitting. There are two distinct heat waves involved in this article and both have had/are having massive impacts. The one last month killed well over 1,000 people while the ongoing one is over 300 deaths (I'm seeing conflicting totals, but the most consistent I've found is 238 in Portugal and 84 in Spain). The wildfires might be worth adding to the blurb if that article can be cleaned up. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 20:32, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose also on quality. Seems like there is a mix of different articles covering the same/similar events. Several of the wikilinks in the blurbs provided are redirects to past (June 2022) events. Re-nominate once fixed. Polyamorph (talk) 21:08, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator comment: No one else support or oppose for a while. Someone split the June and July articles without any discussions, so a bunch of wikilinks got messed up. Elijahandskip (talk) 22:08, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Any blurb that is calling out the special warning/situation in the UK is not going to be appropriate, the entire Western Europe region is affected. --Masem (t) 22:31, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
OpposeComment – Not to mention many other places. Where I live in the U.S., it's 102F (39C) late Sat. afternoon. It's been like this all week. If we had a good worldwide roundup that might be approp. – Sca (talk) 22:40, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair the heat wave in EU is from one/two closely tied weather systems, whereas in the middle of summer of the US it's just warmer, and there are not mass deaths from it. Masem (t) 22:42, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not suggesting the U.S. is particularly notable, although for the past couple weeks it's been unusually warm in the West. The overall point is it's hot in many regions beside Europe. -- Sca (talk) 22:52, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The distinction is Europe very rarely gets this sort of temperature. This is more newsworthy the same way a flood somewhere that has never flooded before and is in an area where a flood couldn't usually reach would be more newsworthy than a flood in an area that floods once a year. That is how news works, after all. --2001:8003:1C20:8C00:E118:40C3:CEF3:344 (talk) 02:20, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Heatwave, even just for July, has ~600 deaths. The 2021 Western North American heat wave was posted at 103. This makes it one of, if not the, deadliest weather event of 2022. The ongoing heat in the United States is just a typical summer heat wave, this could be the continent’s worst since 1757. I would also like to add that the issues with the links is resolved, so I would ask those users to reconsider their votes now. I oppose mentioning the UK in the title though, and would go far enough to say it should be merged with the July heatwave article. 47.21.202.18 (talk) 22:50, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You can't really compare a western North America heatwave to those places that have heat waves with a lot of deaths (like central and eastern North America where thousands if not tens of thousands die). The humidity remains low during western heat waves - which is also what is being seen currently in much of Western Europe. The death from heat waves normally requires high humidity as well. I expect part of the reason that Europe's deaths are higher than one might expect is because of a lack of preparedness, air conditioning, cooling centres, and experience with such conditions. Nfitz (talk) 10:20, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality, but does definitely deserve a blurb. Massive event, lots of fatalities and unusual for the region. Just needs more information and it's good to go. echidnaLives (talk) 08:09, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality and to talk about the heat wave and mention only one country is to ignore what is happening. The Iberian Peninsula is being affected by historic fires in all its extension and with temperature records also historic. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 09:27, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Definitely see coverage to make this an ITN item, but the article presently sucks and fails to cover all problems going on, nor why its happening (being attributing it to global warming). Should be treated similar to any weather-disaster related article. --Masem (t) 14:15, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I just read this hours old NYT article. The article needs work but it will improve. Clearly ITN-worthy story. Biggest problem in my view is that there are other similar articles covering different aspects and countries. Merger proposals are pending. Still, lets post it. This story is not going away. Jusdafax (talk) 22:22, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Alas, substandard prose and/or structure shouldn't be presented on the Main Page just to get it into the box. Not a ticker, etc. -- Sca (talk) 22:49, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support if the issue is too many events rolled into one article, then I suggest a split but leave the current page and transform it into a disambiguation page linking to all the splits. Abcmaxx (talk) 11:49, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The Guardian article is somewhat closer to being a roundup, with mentions of Morocco and even China lower down. Ed's note says Reuters, AP and AFP contributed to the report. -- Sca (talk) 15:03, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support. I'll declare a possible CoI, as my location seems to have broken the UK record today and the temperature is still climbing. The article is an underwhelming list of not-very-related impacts, and could do with more attention to the wildfires, but does meet our minimum requirements. The event itself seems significant enough, and we've gone a week with no new blurbs. This isn't great but is good enough to post, hence weak support. Modest Geniustalk15:09, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I want to post these, but the quality is lacking. The WP:PROSELINE really needs to be addressed, some places need fleshing out, and I wonder if reorganizing the articles would help. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:56, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - this is very Euro-centric, despite there being extreme heat and fires in parts of Africa and also Alaska - among other places. I think there needs to be a more global view. Nfitz (talk) 21:12, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the Alaska heat will likely be dismissed by some as too America-centric, particularly since the areas that do get anomalous heat are sparsely inhabited (same for Siberia a few days ago). As for Africa, it doesn't look like Africa is undergoing one currently - a search about Ethiopia does not give me coverage about the heat wave; most of the other heat is in the Sahara, where few people live anyway, while the southern hemisphere is in winter season right now. Szmenderowiecki (talk) 02:00, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The non-sparsely populated parts of Alaska are also seeing heat, @Szmenderowiecki:. African fires and heat have been widely reported. There was extreme heat last month in Iran. Meanwhile there is currently extreme heat in China. That Nasa article in the last link is a much better basis for an ITN article than one that restricts itself to a regional issue. Looking deeper, there is extreme heat in southwestern parts of the United States, and it looks like western Canada may be next. The media doesn't tend to get as wound up in North America, until town and cities start burning down. Many more people in the impacted areas have air conditioning - and most residential houses have basements. This is far more than just western Europe. There's widescale WP:BIAS in only reporting this about Europe. Nfitz (talk) 10:15, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The ping didn't work for whatever reason? Anyway, all of these examples should have had their articles done and proposed here. Btw, the heat in Europe is in fact from Western Sahara, which includes Morocco, so these are connected issues. As for Iran and China, definitely should have been proposed here but weren't AFAIK, because there were no articles written about those heat waves. Ultimately it isn't about us preferring to promote European topics on ITN and more about people don't caring to write the articles about areas outside EU/US, which is a problem of our user base in general (admittedly I'm part of it, because most things I wrote of so far were connected to Europe or Canada).
As for the US and Canada, I am looking at these and apparently all-time heat records were at best tied as in Salt Lake City, so unless there are numerous casualties, or towns burning, the ITN posting of these extreme events is right now unclear. Szmenderowiecki (talk) 10:59, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Let's try pinging you like this, User:Szmenderowiecki, which is what I've done for a decade+ before I was told it never worked! I don't see where the Salt Lake City information is coming from - and I thought the worst heat was further west (and north). Many heat records in British Columbia were completely shattered - though it was the massive extent and damage of the fires that were most notable. Nfitz (talk) 20:01, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The ping works!
I mean, the Salt Lake City stuff if from just two days ago, but even if it broke the record, I don't think that alone it would qualify. I am not aware of any recent heat advisories for BC, or the Pacific Northwest in general (the last one I can find was from three weeks ago), but obviously this does not qualify for ITN. If the territorial all time highs are broken in Yukon or NWT or Nunavut, then I think it might be postable given that we are speaking of Arctic regions.
Also, my criteria are these: a national record is set; a record for a large state/territory/oblast is set and coupled with some unusual disasters; or the heat wave brings about a lot of mayhem and deaths. So the last year's heat wave in BC would qualify because it obliterated the previous all-time high record in Canada; this heat wave would also qualify; the heatwave from May would also qualify as unusually early. On the other hand, snow in Brazil, as it happened in May, would IMHO also be fine to mention here. More climate news - the climate crisis is there after all! Szmenderowiecki (talk) 01:09, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think there's been much heat worth mentioning this month in most of North America - record highs happen all the time with climate change - heck, we got one here today in Toronto - but the humidity isn't brutal yet with a dew point of 17C, so it's not a big concern or notable (though still feels warmer than London - where the dew point 8C at 1 pm BST!). It's Africa and Asia that are seeing extremes. Though that might change in North America looking at the 2 to 4 week forecasts - more so in the West. I'm all in favour of an ITN though - but including at least Asia and northern Africa. Nfitz (talk) 01:31, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support but wait. Looking back into archives, the 2021 Western North America heat wave got published, though IMHO I'd much prefer to cite actual temperatures and record highs for countries, rather than simply saying that there is an extreme heat wave which kills people and damages infrastructure - both seem sort of obvious. Today some of the worst roasting is expected in the UK, so I'd post the updated info Tuesday evening; also, Belgium and the Netherlands might also get a lot of record temps. Also, we need to explain what the "red alerts" about heat are supposed to mean if we are to post them. So focus on the gist - temperatures, and possibly the number of dead/estimated losses. Szmenderowiecki (talk) 02:00, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sure this would have been posted days ago if it were in North America... Although admittedly not been helped by many article splits/merges, the article that exists now seems fine, and more than good enough for ITN (where we often post way poorer quality articles than this one). And actual records are being broken as we speak, don't get why this is still being held up. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:00, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
By tomorrow it will be yesterday's news. Quality has been the biggest hold up, most agree on the significance to post. When I opposed the links all pointed in different directions, merges were happening. It is now more stable. Quality is still not great but I've changed my oppose to support. Polyamorph (talk) 14:15, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There is no need to suggest bad faith here. The target remains in horrible condition. It's not so much an encyclopedia article as it is a list of facts we might later use to compose an article. GreatCaesarsGhost16:24, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality and also on scope - much of the article is just unstructured bullet points, e.g. Spain's jUly heatwave. Furthermore, as noted above by Nfitz, this same heat wave extends into North Africa and mention should be made of what's happened there, for completeness. — Amakuru (talk) 13:24, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Agree. If a reasonably descriptive section on N. Africa could be added, this might serve as an acceptable modus vivendi to avoid ignoring the No.1 story after Rukraine. -- Sca (talk) 14:16, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support, in principle, a mix of Alt Blurbs 1 and 3; last year's heat dome over the Rockies got posted, after all, which was less impactful in the end. Sceptre (talk) 16:19, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Less impactful, @Sceptre:? In the centre of the event it hit 49.6 °C (121.3 °F), destroying an entire town. The Lytton wildfire alone was about 84,000 hectares - ten times the size I'm seeing reported for fires in Spain; and there were much larger fires than Lytton - some also with their own articles. You could smell the smoke a thousand miles away - and there's no way that's even factored into the excess deaths. Nfitz (talk) 20:01, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support on notability. It's getting there on quality, I think it'd benefit from some changes to its structuring (too many sentences use format On July <date>, this happened), but the contents itself are sourced bar a few sentences that I noticed. Not too far from being ready. Vanilla Wizard 💙19:20, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - shouldn't some of the linked articles be the very poorly written Heat waves of 2022 and perhaps Wildfires in 2022? I'm opposed to posting this as is, just referencing one region, but in the bigger picture it's notable. And perhaps Anthropogenic climate change be ongoing - which seems redirected to a poor name. Perhaps a relatively easy fix is changing blurb I from Record-breaking heat waves and wildfires severely affect Europe. to Record-breaking heat waves and wildfires severely affect Europe and across the Northern Hemisphere, and improve Heat waves of 2022; Heat waves of 2021 is in better shape (though could still have done with some work). Nfitz (talk) 20:01, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I just came across this very good, new, article which looks at the whole thing in a much more global, and less sensational way. Might be used to improve the article(s). I wonder if there'll be something in Thursday's hardcopy version of the newspaper. Nfitz (talk) 22:06, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Spain introduces free tickets for suburban and medium-distance services for Renfe, the state-owned railway operator, starting from September 1 and until the end of the year. Other modes of public transport already have a 30% discount. (The Guardian)
Portugal reports 238 deaths related to the ongoing heat wave as it battles more than 30 active wildfires. In France, more than 10,000 people have fled wildfires in Gironde and in Spain, firefighters continue to battle forest fires near the town of Monsagro. (BBC News)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Three civilians and three security forces are killed in an attack by militants at a checkpoint near Bamako, Mali. (Reuters)
Business and economy
Social media site Twitter experiences a global outage lasting for 45 minutes, making it the site's longest outage since 2016. (The Guardian)
Russia enacts a law that requires all companies to comply with the armed forces' orders to provide goods or services and provide overtime or additional work days if necessary. The requirement for a public procurement procedure for this type of request is abolished. (Rzeczpospolita)
Disasters and accidents
Over 40 people are missing after a series of floods in Virginia, United States. All are later accounted for. (Daily Express)(BBC News)
At least 30 green sea turtles are found dead off a beach in Kumejima, Japan, with many having been stabbed in the neck. The green sea turtle is an endangered species. (BBC)
Russian presidentVladimir Putin signs a law expanding the definition of "foreign agents" to all organisations deemed by the government to have fallen under "foreign influence", beginning on December 1. The law permits Roskomnadzor to block any websites related to a designated entity without a court order, and restricts these entities from receiving state funds and working with children or at state universities. (The Moscow Times)
At least 89 people, including 42 civilians, are killed after gang warfare over the control of the Cité Soleil neighbourhood began a week ago between the G9 and G-Pèp gangs in Port-au-Prince, Haiti. (BBC News)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Support, per the above. I am not happy with the phrase "Trump was also the first wife of former U.S. President Donald Trump." because when they were married, he was not president. At the moment, most readers will know that he was former president, but more relevant would be what he was when they married and divorced. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:19, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Oppose War stuff happening in a war. This is everyday there. As tragic as it is, this is what war brings. I wouldn't expect it to be posted for any area that is currently in a war. NoahTalk19:57, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Tragic and most likely another war crime but we'd never have space to post anything else anymore if we posted all the war crimes Russia is committing in that invasion. That's what's ongoing is for. ITN is for those events that receive more than the routine coverage war crimes do (such as the Bucha massacre). Regards SoWhy20:05, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as above. Certainly not common for there to be this many civilian deaths this far west of the Dnipr, but this is just another comma in a very long and brutal war. Unknown Temptation (talk) 20:30, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: "Margarita Simonyan, editor-in-chief of the Russian state-controlled media said the individuals targeted in the attack ... were "Nazis"." The likely target (across the square) was the "Officers' House", a concert hall. Online you can watch a video of the 3-old-year Liza, who was killed, an hour before. Her mother lost a leg. Just another comma. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:29, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Consensus to post is unlikely to develop. The resignation was not accepted by the president, so there is uncertainty around whether there will be actual change.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 07:48, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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It would not be very congruent to support the inclusion of BJ's resignation and not Draghi's. As I still consider that what is ITNR is the appointment of prime ministers and heads of state with executive powers, I oppose this nomination. Whether it’s of the premier of Italy, UK or Andorra (except in very exceptional cases such as in Sri Lanka). _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 18:14, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Except that UK Prime Ministers tend to resign less often than Italian ones, as coalition governments are rare, so when it does happen it's perhaps more notable. There have been 29 Italian PMs since 1946, compared to only 16 UK PMs in the same period.Pawnkingthree (talk) 18:47, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose (for now). Can and should be revisited if his resignation is accepted and he therefore really stops being PM. Regards SoWhy19:59, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose nominated in good faith as it looked a story at the time, but the president has refused his resignation and for that reason nothing has happened - yet. Unknown Temptation (talk) 20:28, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose unless he actually resigns and is replaced. As above, his resignation has been rejected, so doesn't look like there will be a change of leader, which is the ITNR. Joseph2302 (talk) 07:42, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Comment - What's the significance of this? Since the parity event doesn't have its own article, it's necessary to explain why this is considered important financial news.--🌈WaltCip-(talk)12:19, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Currencies fluctuate, thats just what they do, and currently the Euro is ever so slightly above the dollar. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 12:23, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose currencies fluctuate, especially one that relies on 20+ countries' economies. Not ITN worthy, and it seems not true anymore anyway, as it's just above 1.00 currently. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:41, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Oppose This is just "currency reaches arbitrary value in comparison to another currency." This is nothing intrinsically meaningful. Steelkamp (talk) 13:17, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
The European Commission allows Russia to resume shipping embargoed goods by rail to its exclave of Kaliningrad, following Russian threats against Lithuania. However, the transit of military equipment through Lithuanian territory remains prohibited. (Newsweek)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Comment: There are a few quotes in need of sourcing. Please add footnotes and REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 12:06, 19 July 2022 (UTC) That was quick! Sourcing now done (AGF on non-English sources). No issues with formatting. Long enough at 500+ words. Earwig found absolutely no concerns. This wikibio is READY for RD. --PFHLai (talk) 12:13, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Despite the subject's name, this wikibio is not a stub -- it has 500+ words and is long enough to qualify. Formatting and deployment of footnotes look fine. And, Earwig reports no issues. This is READY for RD. --PFHLai (talk) 13:24, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Support Quote in the intro should be moved to the body, but otherwise good depth of coverage, fully referenced. Marking ready. SpencerT•C21:33, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
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Nominator's comments: Conviction of a whistleblower for a notable leak affecting global affairs.
Comment I'm not sure the two-sentence update on the target article is sufficient, especially since there's no info on the retrial. Also, the proposed blurb is far too long, but that's an easy enough fix ("Ex-CIA engineer Joshua Schulte is convicted for his role in the Vault 7 leak", or something like that). Kicking222 (talk) 15:42, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
CommentNew York? What country is New York in? I think I would support this in theory, but wonder whether or not this would actually be considered significant or newsworthy. I'm not sure where our bar is for criminal prosecutions like these.--🌈WaltCip-(talk)16:52, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment if the conviction and leak is so significant then it surely should have its own article rather that a section on a biographical article? Abcmaxx (talk) 21:28, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per above, if they're ITN level of notable, they would be worthy of their own article, rathed than a few lines in another article. Joseph2302 (talk) 22:57, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Ukraine says that despite the Russian blockade of many of its Black Sea ports, in the last four days, 16 ships carrying grain have passed through the Bystre rivermouth, an important mouth of the Danube river. (Reuters)
A chartered boat capsizes in the Hudson River in New York City, killing two people and injuring three others. Twelve others are rescued alive from the water. (CNN)
A three-year-long independent inquiry into child sexual exploitation finds that over 1,000 children in Telford, Shropshire, England, were sexually exploited beginning in the 1980s. Teachers and youth workers were discouraged from reporting child sexual abuse and police were nervous that investigating the abusers would inflame racial tensions. (Reuters)(The Guardian)
Rajapaksa subsequently flees the country on a military aircraft to the Maldives, formally ending his rule of Sri Lanka. His brother, former finance minister Basil Rajapaksa, also flees the country. (BBC News)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Long enough to qualify (400+ words of prose), with footnotes at expected spots (There are REFs in 3 languages but none in English, so AGF.) and with no glaring formatting problems, this wikibio is READY for RD. --PFHLai (talk) 02:43, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose per above; none of the targets proposed seem appropriate. A separate article would be needed. Also, the suggested significance requires splitting hairs on the notion of "unlawful" killings. The allies killed thousands of non-combatants; who cares which ones were sanctioned? GreatCaesarsGhost13:40, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Three civilians are killed and 31 others are injured in a Russian shelling of Kharkiv. The city's mayor says that the latest shelling has targeted civilian infrastructure. (SwissInfo)
Lithuania expands sanctions on the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad to include cement, concrete, wood, alcohol and alcohol-based industrial chemicals. (Reuters)
The French government survives a no confidence vote tabled by the left-wingNUPES coalition. The no confidence vote received only 146 yes votes out of the 289 needed. (Le Monde)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Comment – the tables in the "Head coaching record" section should be referenced (regardless of whether identical info is referenced in the main body, but you may re-use sources from there). Rest of the article looks like it meets the minimum ITN requirements – will support once issue above is resolved. —Bloom6132 (talk) 02:04, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose From reading the article, this event would have happened in the early nineties. So yeah, I think this is a little outdated. DarkSide830 (talk) 15:11, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose good faith nom but insufficiently notable for ITN. We rarely post anything that doesn't rate a stand-alone article. Frankly this is the sort of news one typically associates with tabloid celebrity culture. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:16, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
This wikibio is long enough to qualify (400+ words of prose), and has footnotes at expected spots, with no obvious formatting concerns. However, as a reader, it seems that there is no coverage of his life between his tenure as commander of the military region ending on 6 November 1992 and his installation as the Mayor of Surakarta on 9 January 1995, as well as the period between his being replaced as mayor in 2000 and his death in 2022. Anything to include? Did he simply retire in 2000? Otherwise, this is READY for RD. --PFHLai (talk) 07:29, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@PFHLai: I can't really figure out anything significant happening between 2000 until his death in 2022, but this article from 2010 says that his house was robbed and the burglar pointed a knife to him before fleeing the scene. Idk if that's important to the article or not.--Regards, Jeromi Mikhael10:49, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The wikibio is fine as is. Just that as I read it, it seems like there is a gap. Perhaps a sentence about where he resided in retirement would be useful. Thanks. --PFHLai (talk) 10:57, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I was more interested in something, anything related to his retirement. Never mind. I was probably quibbling about nothing. --PFHLai (talk) 22:29, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: The reveal is happening soon so we should get ready. It was agreed earlier that the first such images would be highlighted here. Andrew🐉(talk) 21:56, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
SupportOnce the first image is revealed and in the article - assuming it is as stunning as expected. The consensus in the previous discussion, reference above, was that the time for the ITN was when the first images are revealed. Nfitz (talk) 22:21, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Update There was a delay, which Biden said was due to his preparation for a trip to the Middle East, but he revealed the image which was, as expected, of a deep field image of ancient galaxies with gravitational lensing. I'm not sure when it will be available for download but suppose that, as it's a NASA image, we will be able to use it freely. Andrew🐉(talk) 22:28, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment this is a scientific milestone. "President Biden reveals" is unnecessary. Politics is sometimes superfluous. Support once cn tags are fixed. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 22:46, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment i made a page dedicated to the deep field since other deep fields have gotten pages and this one is far and away the most significant to date. Ayyydoc (talk) 00:10, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support for any of the blurbs. NASA should be mentioned, since they're the ones who created and are operating it, although if NASA isn't mentioned, it's not a big deal. --RockstoneSend me a message!01:01, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Comments: The entire Career section has just one footnote. The list of his Musicals at the end of the article is unsourced. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 12:20, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: One of the most respected Spanish Ministers of Culture in the history of the ministry, he left his post just two years ago. Gone too soon from cancer. The article seems ready, but I'm expanding its content a bit more._-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 09:23, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Too Soon All notable organisms can be killed. If this industry giant dies, nominate it for an RD/blurb. Threats, though real, are everywhere. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:51, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until the tree burns down, then post as RD. We can't nominate an organism for RD until it actually dies. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 03:05, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose A tree being threatened by a fire is not sufficiently notable for ITN. As per InedibleHulk, if it dies, then nominate it again. Chrisclear (talk) 05:32, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and close that a tree is threatened by fire is the last thing I would consider ITNR-worthy. It's summer and it's a natural occurrence . And the fact that it's 3,000-years-old, even if it's important, doesn't make it extraordinary, since it's only necessary to see the millenary olive trees in the Mediterranean basin that burn every year. In any case, the blurb does not even mention the country. Where is this happening? Most of the world's population does not know what "Mariposa Grove" is. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 07:49, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I can assure you that burning down 34,000 cubic feet of solid green wood would take whatever scientists call the opposite of a miracle. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:58, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I would also oppose this article on quality. I recommend trying to expand the article before suggesting it as a blurb again, if the worst does come to pass. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 08:42, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Even if the tree burned down I would be skeptical that this is noteworthy international news. And the tree hasn't even burned down. Endwise (talk) 09:12, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Over 124,000 confidential documents are leaked from Uber, showing efforts by Uber to lobby governments for preferential treatment. (BBC News)
Leaked documents reveal that French PresidentEmmanuel Macron went to "extraordinary lengths" to help Uber disrupt the French taxi industry, telling Uber's executives that he had brokered a "secret" deal with his socialist opponents in his cabinet. (The Guardian)
Disasters and accidents
Most of Argentina is placed on "yellow alert" by the National Meteorological Service due to high winds, hail and snowfall. (M1)
An exit poll by NHK projects that the ruling Liberal Democratic Party (LDP)-led coalition will retain its majority in the upper house, winning 76 of the chamber's 125 contested seats. The LDP is the party of former prime ministerShinzo Abe, who was assassinated two days prior while campaigning for the party's candidate for Nara, Kei Satō. (Al Jazeera)
Nominator's comments: This is a bit late but it took us a while to get the article in decent shape. I believe this is valid for inclusion in ITN as it is a recurring election in a sovereign state.
Oppose on quality the background section is (correctly) orange-tagged as needing expansion. ITN does not post article with orange tags. Also, is there more that could be said about the legal challenges- they sound interesting/unusual. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:08, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: Likely to become global news with significant coverage, given the size of the leak and the company itself. Carter00000 (talk) 16:32, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - A nothingburger. It's accepted that Uber tries to lobby governments for preferential treatment; it's been going on ever since California (United States) declared its drivers to be the equivalent of W-2 employees. Nothing especially newsworthy here, and no long-term significance likely unless governments actually decide to take more serious action.--🌈WaltCip-(talk)17:00, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support - On top of cementing our knowledge of their secret lobbying, the leak also highlights the often illegal lengths Uber went through in order to bolster their standing worldwide. That in addition to their extensive coverup efforts, and their weaponization of their drivers. I believe the blurb should reflect these other aspects as well. This leak will likely have an impact on the future of the ridesharing industry, or at least how they conduct themselves. PikminFan9000 (talk) 17:45, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment interesting piece of business news, article is awful. If you consolidate the proseline mess of the "history" section it might be longer than the controversies. Nothing at all about the tech - basically no description of the product or company at all. --LaserLegs (talk) 21:56, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Seven teenagers are killed and two others injured after government forces airstrike a village in Savanes Region, Togo. Togolese authorities say that they mistook the teenagers for jihadists. (Reuters)
PresidentGotabaya Rajapaksa flees his residence in Colombo after protesters storm the residence and clash with police. At least 33 people are injured. Rajapaksa's resignation is demanded amid the worst economic crisis in Sri Lanka since 1948. (BBC News)
Article needs updating Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Multiple footnote-free paragraphs in the prose. Half of the Filmography section (Television) is unsourced. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 22:42, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
{CN} tags persist. Things like getting divorced and getting convicted and jailed really should be referenced. Please add more REFs --PFHLai (talk) 01:57, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: I know there was a recent nomination regarding the countries bankruptcy on July 5, but the circumstances have changed quite significantly since then, and this is a different story from that and is only getting more oxygen with a resignation, as such I feel a fresh take is warrented. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 16:27, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait According to this, President Rajapaksa intends to resign on 13 July, so I would wait until that day for the blurb to contain his resignation and that of the prime minister. Without any doubt, the resignation of the two highest authorities of a country motivated by massive protests is, IMO, ITNR-worthy. I wouldn't mention anything about the storming of the presidential palace. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 17:15, 9 July 2022§ (UTC)
As discussed here recently with regard your misguided opposition to the nomination of the Boris Johnson resignation announcements, a main purpose of ITN is "to help readers find and quickly access content they are likely to be searching for because an item is in the news", implying that the timing should be determined based on coverage in (reliable) news sources - not by the opinion of individual Wikipedia editors who disagree with these sources on which is the more newsworthy aspect in such a course of events. Regards, HaeB (talk) 02:45, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support we can update the hook later if Rajapaksa also resigns. Bad week to be a prime minister of a country, it seems. Juxlos (talk) 17:35, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support the storming itself would probably already be notable enough, the fact that it also resulted in the resignation of the prime minister, and ostensibly the resignation of the president, makes it even more so. I only have an issue with the "agree to his resignation" part. Is this something the protestors specifically asked for? It makes an already wordy blurb even longer. YD407OTZ (talk) 17:47, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Though the pronouns in the blurb are confusing to me. Has Wickremesinghe agreed to his own resignation or the president's? Nfitz (talk) 18:10, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I would say the big story is all this is the presidential palace being stormed, because thats the impetus for the resignations... that happened today. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 19:07, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support I do think this is an interesting story I think should be shared, but I'm uncertain as to timing. Perhaps the better question to ask here is whether there is some framing of the story that will encapsulate the ongoing events that might develop as it lingers on the front page. 142.126.80.63 (talk) 19:35, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support and with the way things are tracking I'd lean towards putting the unrest in Sri Lanka in Ongoing after this blurb rolls off as well. DarkSide830 (talk) 19:48, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment obviously notable but the article is a dreadful state of WP:PROSELINE and in need of a copyedit. At least a first pass on cleanup should be done before it goes up. --LaserLegs (talk) 20:37, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Like what does this "On 16 April, Gotagogama People's University was officially opened to people from all walks of life as the university was built to create a free space for knowledge sharing." mean and what does it have to do with protests about a poor economy? --LaserLegs (talk) 20:39, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with regard to this particular sentence, which I have just removed along with making a few other improvements to the article. Overall however it is well-sourced, and tone fails such as this are the exception; the main issue seems to me that it is a bit too detailed, but that isn't a dealbreaker regarding ITN. By the way, the same article was already featured on ITN back in April (with regard to a different event). Regards, HaeB (talk) 02:45, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Definitely notable and will be ITN/R when they do resign. Added an altblurb. Third PM to be in the news in three days, who knows what will happen tomorrow? Davey2116 (talk) 20:45, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality I would 100% support this blurb and also putting the protest page into ongoing, but the protest article needs some work done. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:17, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support This event ( 2022 Sri Lankan protests ) is notable not only for the upcoming resignations of the President and Prime Minister that it led to, but also the extent of the protests and the burning of the residences of both the President and PM. Willsteve2000 (talk) 23:49, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support alternative blurb. Clearly a highly notable event with a lot of current reader interest (the main article about the protests already attracted over 20,000 pageviews on July 9 without being featured on the main page yet). Regards, HaeB (talk) 02:45, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – This is still about events that haven't happened yet. Today's AP report says "Sri Lanka was in a political vacuum for a second day Monday with opposition leaders yet to agree on who should replace its roundly rejected leaders." The BBC and AlJazeera note that President Rajapaksa's whereabouts are unknown, and the BBC says that on Monday he notified PM Wickremesinghe's office that he will step down on Wednesday, as stated last week. That's two days away. We just can't wait? WP:CRYSTAL – Sca (talk) 12:04, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
its a complicated situation, but the residences were stormed and the announcements happened, you can still adjust the blurb to what has occurred. Honesly that the residences were stormed is a pretty big story in itself disregarding everything else. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 14:11, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting comment – AlJazeera says Sri Lanka’s parliament will vote on July 20 to elect a new president to replace Rajapaksa. Meanwhile, AP reports that hundreds were using "the vast array of exercise machines in the private gym of the presidential palace." – Sca (talk) 19:30, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Can we tweak the blurb to reflect the latest developments? Gotabaya has resigned now. India Today. Wickremesinghe despite promising to resign, now act like a dictator. Imposed curfew, islandwide invocation of the state of emergency, giving power to the police and army to curb protest by any means. He has informed the speaker that he will resign only after the parliament elect a new president and a PM. So let's say "Wickremesinghe was appointed as the acting president"?--Chanaka L (talk)18:20, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality Article needs A LOT of ref work before debate can begin. I'll try fixing it, but might need some help. Once issues have been addressed, I can support a blurb.Support blurb Article in good state. He was president during a controversial period in Mexico, accused of war crimes and nearly charged for genocide. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:11, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Blurb, support RD - We don't blurb every head of state, and ought not to normalise that, that would turn ITN into an obituary wall.... If the blurb only reads «Former (insert political position) (insert politician name) dies at the age of (insert age).» the blurb isn't adding anything that a RD doesn't already do. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 03:48, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No Blurb As 4 suggests, there's no story here beyond recency. And as both provided obits say, his presidency went mostly poorly. This idea that every head of state should be considered the Gretzky of their field is absurd, as is giving any BDP crime cred for "nearly" getting charged with something. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:52, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb standard third world autocrat, no notable achievements; killing dissidents in authoritarian countries is par for the course and lasting only 6 years is not much for an autocrat. Achieving 6% annual growth is also standard for a developing country. This is no S Korea etc with 12+ % growth Bumbubookworm (talk) 17:11, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD on quality I don't think he is one of the most remarkable president of Mexico. And although there are people who think that the intention here is to nominate all former heads of state or government, they are wrong. Mexico is not a minor country. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 07:53, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If "there are people" refers to me, "this idea" refers to Template:U's hard-to-misinterpret declaration of intent: Template:Tq He wrote it in the context of a bigger fish in a smaller pond, but I'm reasonably sure he meant it should apply to the wider "here". I'll let him explain why he hasn't supported blurbing this death here yet. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:18, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If he's wrong, I won't be the one to tell him; my disgusted resignation from "this place" over the Spanish-Angolan affair is effective immediately. InedibleHulk (talk) 10:26, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb Being a former head of state should not be a free pass to a blurb, which is for rare cases, and I don't see his six years in office as reaching a high enough bar to post.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:05, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Whatta ya hear? Whatta ya say? RIP. Filmography is not quite there yet but it's closer than most.Support Referencing issues are largely fixed now. Kafoxe (talk) 23:26, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Counterpoint: it wasn't wrong to post it at the time, because it was a story in the news with a decent quality article to showcase. The same is true now. Just because the company isn't changing hands (or may not be, since we don't know the outcome of the coming court battle) doesn't mean it's not newsworthy. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:25, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose In the end, nothing happened and I don't think it's necessary to give this matter so much thought. A millionaire doing millionaires' things. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 23:49, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. We're not a Musk ticker, and as The Rambling Man points out, it never happened. This is also evidence for why we shouldn't post company acquisitions until the acquisition actually happens. BilledMammal (talk) 00:23, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose We probably should not have run the story initially. This is going to be a messy thing that may go on and on. Let's be more wary next time. Thriley (talk) 01:12, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose posting at the time was fine, the media was at fever pitch over it. The reaction this time is more muted, let it go. --LaserLegs (talk) 01:50, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and honestly a perfect example why I feel like the shouldn't have run this in the first place, its better to post these kind of things when the deal closes. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 03:20, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Given that the deal did not happen. There is also a chance that this is a bargaining tactic and the status of the deal may change again. Carter00000 (talk) 05:37, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The NYT says "Buyers have frequently used the threat of walking away to renegotiate a deal. At the height of the pandemic, LVMH Moët Hennessy Louis Vuitton sued to back out of its acquisition of Tiffany & Company. The two parties later shaved about $420 million off the price." So, as this may be similar haggling which still results in a purchase, we should let the process complete rather than jumping to conclusions. Andrew🐉(talk) 06:57, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support we shouldn't just be an Elon Musk ticker, but this story is in the news prominently, just like it was when we posted he was going to buy Twitter. Something this big not happening after being pretty sure it was going to happen is important news. Joseph2302 (talk) 07:51, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose because nothing changes and we should re-evaluate how we post announcements of proposed acquisitions in the future. Part of me feels like WP (along with the rest of the media) got baited into giving Musk some free PR. YD407OTZ (talk) 09:48, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't the end of the matter. If he un-cancels, are we going to post that too? 49TL11:13, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Only noting while he died on the 5th, sources are only reporting on it widely now, so this date seems proper. --Masem (t) 17:50, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I'm inclined to support the blurb for the reasons you state: the second longest president in Africa, ended a civil war that lasted almost 30 years and practically built a nation that became independent just a few years before taking office. But for now I don't think it meets the qualitative requirements: unsourced paragraphs and lines, and I think the section on his long tenure could be expanded much further. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 15:04, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hold - I suggest holding it for now due to the recent Abe assassination. Even without the assassination, the article seems to be lead-heavy, without significant amount of content afterwards. Cheers, :PenangLion (talk) 15:57, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb, Support RD when ready Needs a lot of sourcing, particularly the awards section. Nothing really blurb worthy, he died of old age. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 17:05, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb This is a clear-cut case. He spent 38 years in office as a president of a country where the title unifies the head of state and head of government, ended a 26-year long civil war and implemented significant economic reforms.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:57, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb when ready A country's long-serving former leader, who led the country through a long war that received extensive international attention, who is clearly transformative enough in that country's history to blurb his death. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 18:30, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
So when Jimmy Carter passes he shouldn't get a blurb because he's old? Wouldn't that same logic go to Elizabeth II? Just because they're old and its been years since they've left office, it doesn't diminish the impact/legacy they left in their respective countries. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:56, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No we should not blurb Carter, or Clinton, or Chrétien, or Harper, or Mulroney, or John Howard or Gordon Brown. We should not have blurbed Bush Sr. We should blurb Jr, (we should have blurbed Rumsfeld). When the time comes we should do BoJo. Elizabeth II will have a media circus that lasts for days which frankly is the guidelines we should be using for all the blurb considerations since the only difference between a blurb and RD is that blurbs kick some other story out of the box. Old man dies, is there something more that needs to be said? Some critical piece of information about his death like Shinzo Abe? And what the hell does Jimmy Carter have to do with anything Christ I picked three other countries whose former leaders I knew the name of (also no blurb for Gerhard Schröder making it four) but you went straight for an American president huh? --LaserLegs (talk) 21:11, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oh you can read my mind and predict the future? I was in the process of explaining the above when I EC because you were busy slandering me. Go ahead and apologize. --LaserLegs (talk) 21:11, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
the comment is not offensive, nor is it necessary to over exaggerate, intimidate or threaten. But as I will not give more thought to this trifle, my apologies. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 21:57, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Obvious support blurb. He was a major transformative figure in both his own country and the region (including Congo wars and suchlike), and the sort of figure we routinely blurb. Looks like the quality issues are resolved too unless there's anything else? — Amakuru (talk) 22:06, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
What a terrible argument. The Queen has been Queen for 70 years simply because she happened to be born to someone who was royalty. George W. Bush, in contrast, was elected to his position, twice. But that doesn't matter, all former heads of states who pass away should be blurbed, in my opinion. -- RockstoneSend me a message!03:40, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If we did that, we would be blurbing them on a weekly basis.... ITN/RD guidelines specifically state that if a person is more known for what they did in life then it's better to put it as a RD link. Also news of his death is pretty burried in today's headlines with everything else going on. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 04:24, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No Blurb An old unpopular man known for staying low-key while his people suffer dies privately of nothing in particular in a fancy foreign hospital and that supplants a filmed assassination with a bizarre newfangled weapon for still unfolding reasons because they were both nominal national leaders? If so, I resign in disgust. If not, we part amicably! InedibleHulk (talk) 08:50, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Judging from your opening comment, misattributing three farfetched statements to the nominator, I doubt you understand my reasons, either. But whatever. You lean your way and I'll stand by mine. InedibleHulk (talk) 12:05, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
when I talk about what the nominator says I clearly mean "longest serving president of an African country" ("second longest serving president in Africa"), but okay. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 12:12, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
By calling that one factual description "reasons", then adding two of your own assumptions after a colon, you sure had me fooled. Oh well. Shame on me! InedibleHulk (talk) 12:24, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality The article does not explain what impact he has. It has one short paragraph about economy and once sentence that he allowed foreign investment. Otherwise it is just a bunch of stuff about not having elections and corruption. Not sure how he is transformative then unless he we are considering him as a successful looter. There is basically nothing on his policies Bumbubookworm (talk) 09:20, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
this is kinda how I feel too... Being a corrupt long term dictator doesn't sound sound particularly transformative. He ain't no Nelson Mandela for his country. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 09:30, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
We don’t post blurbs only for democratic leaders. Mugabe got one for spending 30 years as an authoritarian president of Zimbabwe. So, why should a former president of Angola, a country comparable in size to Zimbabwe with a much larger economy, who spent more years in office and ended a civil war not get one? I sincerely hope the reason isn’t an English-centric bias because Zimbabwe is an English-speaking country and a former British colony.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:41, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think the only reasons we post blurbs for people whose death itself is not a media event are peer pressure, show of respect or acknowledgment of the reported best in a business. Honoring Mugabe was disgusting. This doesn't have to be. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:51, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There is no bias at least I don't want there to be one. But we also didn't blurb leaders like Leonid Kravchuk or Stanislav Shushkevich who led their countries independence as well precisely because they didn't do much as leader themselves aside from lead independence. Mugabe pushed through a lot of economic reforms in his country (among other controversial policies) that he is well famous for. If we go by the same standard, what did this guy do other than make peace with some rebels, cling on to power, and syphon money from his country? 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 10:17, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This guy implemented more important economic reforms than Mugabe, which made Angola one of the leading oil-producing countries in Africa and secured long-term economic development through a free-market liberal economy, and this is well documented in the article. Have you read the article at all?--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:25, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb Our criteria says major figures are blurbed in rare cases. This for me is not one of those. In general I do not support blurbs of "life as the main story" world leaders as RD is sufficient. Of course a dictator who clung onto power for a long time did a lot of things to the country, but it is not blurb-worthy in my opinion. Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:45, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
CommentTemplate:Ping Could you please explain how there's no consensus for a blurb here? Most of the oppose votes come from people who have apparently not read the article to get familiar with the person's legacy and use ill-founded arguments that the person was authoritarian and corrupt (not to mention that the opposition is a clear minority per WP:NOTVOTE). You may want to re-consider your decision. Thanks.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 13:42, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sure. In assessing the !votes, it's not my place to interpret the article or research his legacy. I'm not !voting, I'm determining consensus of the !voters, and they don't seem to be nefarious to compel me to !vote myself. ITN discussions are a bit more wide open than say XfDs, where consensus is weighed against existing guidelines. WP:ITN itself says: Template:Tq2 While there was a narrow majority to post a blurb, it was not strong enough for me to post the blurb. Regards—Bagumba (talk) 14:14, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Reply If it's not your place to interpret the article or research his legacy, you won't be able to evaluate the arguments made in the discussion, so it's better to refrain from making decisions based on superficial examination of the matter.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:35, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You seem to be telling me to WP:SUPERVOTE or otherwise to excuse myself. No. But the discussion has not been capped, and another admin might have a different opinion. Regards.—Bagumba (talk) 16:04, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting comment – RD appropriate, but the subject doesn't seem quite 'transformative' despite his lengthy (and controversial) career. – Sca (talk) 14:17, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb - Frankly, I'm a bit surprised that the tired refrain of "old man dies" was sufficient to tip the balance away from posting a blurb, given the immense legacy of this particular world leader.--🌈WaltCip-(talk)14:46, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb honestly, if we're posting a blurb for a death, the news at least has to be talking about the person that died. I have seen no coverage of Santos' death on any news websites, so the only criteria is whether their life was transformative enough for a blurb, which I don't think this qualifies for. AryKun (talk) 15:02, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
And none of those are front page news, or anywhere close to front page news, which is what I would expect for a death blurb. Obviously they cover the fact that he died, that's their job. But they clearly do not think BBC has an obituary for Tony Sirico more prominently featured than Santos'. Reuters puts both Sirico and Luis Echeverria ahead of Santos. A death blurb is not a some way to gauge how much an impact someone had while living, that's what RD is for. ITN blurbs is only for deaths that are actually in the news, like Shinzo Abe's is. AryKun (talk) 16:35, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This isn't a discussion to determine whether Santos was more notable than Sirico or Echeverria. Those two should be discussed separately from this one.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:54, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb He wasn't just HoS for a long time; he lead his country for most of its history. The changes in Angola were massive in this time, and he was a key party to all of them. The burden of proof here is clearly on the opposition, and they do not appear to be presenting any argument at all. GreatCaesarsGhost17:28, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Absolutely not. The norm is to put a recent death in the RD section, which is what I think should happen here. The burden is on supporters to say why we should make an exception here. Pawnkingthree (talk) 22:50, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If someone is transformative, then the article should clearly elucidate what their impact was, or what their technical innovations were etc. If there is no clear argument in the article then either subject is not transformative, or the article does not cover the key points. No clear elucidation of his impact is given at all Bumbubookworm (talk) 11:09, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb per Great Caesar's Ghost. He was president for nearly all of the country's independent history, going from the Cold War to economic liberalisation, and was also notable for intervention in Zaire/DRC. Debates on which of the lesser UK/US/Canada etc leaders deserve blurbs can wait for another day. Unknown Temptation (talk) 18:03, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb—The most significant political figure in Angolan history, for better or for worse. Angola is a large nation straddling the southern and central regions of the African continent, with a population of around 33 million people. I feel that Dos Santos easily merits a blurb. Kurtis(talk)00:03, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb He was the country's president for nearly 40 consecutive years. There's no shot that we'd be debating blurbing a head of state or government who served that long in a more well-known country. For what it's worth, it seems that the supports here vastly outweigh the opposes, but it is still a bit disappointing to see all the dismissive and unconstructive comments along the lines of "just an old man who died" Vanilla Wizard 💙22:48, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Then maybe we need to find a different blurb that doesn't just read "old man dies"? If we are going to death blurb someone, I feel like the blurb at least needs to explain what about the death was significant. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 03:36, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Add something like "President of Angola from 1979 to 2017 and MPLA leader during the Angolan Civil War" to the blurb? This extra clause at least brings up both his long rule and the main event that incurred his transformativeness. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 04:07, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Article looks good, plus an assassination attempt on an ex-G7 leader and one of Japan's longest serving PMs is pretty blurbworthy. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 03:05, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait It has been twenty minutes since this happened. Information is going to be changing constantly. Good lord. Mlb96 (talk) 03:09, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until his condition is determined and announced; if the worst comes to the worst, then, pre-emptive support. Sceptre (talk) 03:12, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait: The situation is rapidly changing, so it is unclear if this is an attempted or successful assassination. One that is cleared up, it needs to be given a blurb. ―SusmuffinTalk03:20, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait for now, the news is still breaking and the article is under development. Absolutely shocking though, I'm inclined to support posting on notability (regardless of his outcome) once we have a quality article about it. Vanilla Wizard 💙03:28, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support in principle but wait until more details arrive; the attempt article is a stub right now, and given they have the suspected shooter in custody, its expected that we should know more soon. --Masem (t) 03:49, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait but this is almost certainly going to become a support once we have some more details and especially if he dies. This is really quite shocking. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:06, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support, but Wait even if he survives this is massive news. By the looks of it, the hook will have to change, unfortunately. Juxlos (talk) 04:16, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support as is as this is fairly big news in and of itself, whether Abe dies or not. He is a former PM and was wounded by an attempted assassin. DarkSide830 (talk) 04:20, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support the assassination of a former G7 leader is unprecedented. Article on him is good; doesn't need more than a line about the shooting. Nfitz (talk) 04:27, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I support posting this soon seeing how Abe being shot alone is blurbworthy. The blurb can be updated should anything develop such as (hopefully not) it becoming an assassination. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 04:35, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support - i am absolutely stunned by this. I remember when the Osaka mayor was shot and thought that was impossible, now this. In Nara-ken no less. EvergreenFir(talk)05:33, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support, but wait given that the survival rate for cardiopulmonary arrest is less than 10%, there's a significant chance the ITN blurb will need to be reworded soon, unfortunately. --benlisquareT•C•E05:38, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting support Shooting is already notable and horrific. Clearly warrants a death blurb if it comes to it. Abe is a globally well-known politician, this will irreparably change politics in Japan. (Also, he is not only a former long-serving prime minister but also still a current member of the legislature.) Davey2116 (talk) 06:04, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Suggested blurb change: Change 'a speech' to 'an election speech'(and perhaps wikilink 'election' to the Japanese election article, next Sunday's 2022 Japanese House of Councillors election). The point is that an attack on an election speech is an especially strong attack on the fundamentals of Japanese democracy, as the current PM has said, and indeed on every country's democracy. Tlhslobus (talk) 09:16, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry,there is currently no discussion about this at WP:ERRORS (nor should there be,as it's not an error, so the discussion belongs here). But on second thoughts,maybe for accuracy that should be (the unfortunately longer) 'a speech during the elections', per PM Kishida's words: ""This attack is an act of brutality that happened during the elections - the very foundation of our democracy - and is absolutely unforgivable." (found here).Tlhslobus (talk) 09:30, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It is understandable that WP:ERRORS has been recommended as a forum for this, as the proposed change has very little visibility here, and would have more visibility there (but would always be at risk of deletion there as 'not an error', as I have experienced in the past). We probably really need a separate section for Requested non-error blurb changes, but this is not the right forum for that discussion. On the other hand visibility here can probably be improved by moving this into a new subsection, which I will now do. Tlhslobus (talk) 10:08, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
ERRORS is typically used for even non-error-type fixes to blurbs. As long you aren't requesting a completely different blurb, then there is fine. --Masem (t) 11:09, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose There's a significant gap between him retiring from the Cougars and moving into a retirement home, other than a vague reference to co-owning the team. Is there any more that can be said? Pawnkingthree (talk) 22:46, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Please verify and confirm stats table for the 1962–63 season. The data in the table do not seem to be supported by either of the sources as footnoted at the end of the stats table. Nor is this season mentioned in the prose of this wikibio. Perhaps that row should not be there? Thanks. --PFHLai (talk) 06:09, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose article is at AFD, we cannot post it until the AFD is concluded. And likely by that time, it will be stale (over 7 days old). Joseph2302 (talk) 16:02, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose article is at AFD, we cannot post it until the AFD is concluded. And likely by that time, it will be stale (over 7 days old). Joseph2302 (talk) 16:02, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose is not a disaster worthy of ITNR, as recent floods in other countries have been much worse. These have resulted in one death and not because it affected Australia it has more notability. No blurb has been specified, by the way. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 11:02, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose looking at Template:Tl, there's been a number of notable floods in Australia in the last few years, all significantly more damaging than this one. This one doesn't have significant, ITN-worthy coverage. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:29, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now neither this is official/formal nor he is resigning as PM until autumn (this is what’s ITNR). We need to do as we have always done here: wait for the new PM to be appointed and mention in the blurb that his/her predecessor resigned due to a scandal. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 08:29, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The claim that that's what "we have always done here" is clearly false, as shown below.
A main purpose of ITN is "to help readers find and quickly access content they are likely to be searching for because an item is in the news", meaning that the timing should be determined by coverage in (reliable) news sources - not by when individual Wikipedia editors' tastes for ceremonial formality are fully satisfied. Regards, HaeB (talk) 10:02, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. He is not resigning as PM, only as party leader, he will remain PM until a party leadership contest can be held to choose a new PM. 331dot (talk) 08:32, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until he actually leaves and is replaced, as that's the actual WP:ITNR event. This is what we did when Imran Khan was deposed as Pakistan PM, and what we should do here too, especially as he won't stop being PM for a while. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:42, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait this is the same as the 2022 United Kingdom government crisis nomination below. He's resigned but not actually going anywhere. Wait until he actually goes. Polyamorph (talk) 08:57, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Note that we posted both Theresa May's resignation announcement (May 2019) and Boris's swearing in (July 2019). We also posted David Cameron's resignation announcement in 2016 but that was merged with the Brexit blurb. I'll weak support based on this precedent as this is making headlines internationally. Davey2116 (talk) 09:01, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Did you look at the links? May also had not yet resigned as PM, she remained in office for two more months after her announcement was featured in ITN. Regards, HaeB (talk) 10:01, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I did look at the links but didn't realise it was 2 months (I know it was given in the link text so should have realised). Ok please disregard! Polyamorph (talk) 10:19, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until he formally announces it. I view this as an edge case. Typically we only post items whenever a leader is elected or takes office, not merely whenever someone announces their resignation. As @Davey2116 also points out, whether or not to post this would depend on the extent of coverage in reliable sources. Gust Justice (talk) 09:23, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional support once we get an official announcement. We don't need to wait for the endless Tory leadership contest to drag out to post this, it's in the news everywhere now. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱09:28, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support the newly added more precise altblurb version. The announcement is amply supported by reliable sources. Regards, HaeB (talk) 10:01, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. BBC, NY Times and other sources report that Johnson will only resign as the Conservative party leader, but will remain the Prime Minister at least until the Fall. A party leadership change is not ITNR. Nsk92 (talk) 10:08, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I hear a politician named Allen Key will be heavily involved. Hope they do a good job constructing the cabinet, lest it collapse without warning in a few months. Davey2116 (talk) 10:31, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I think both his resignation and the subsequent installation of a replacement are newsworthy, and as per the T. May precedent it's fine to post both. — Amakuru (talk) 10:28, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until it actually happens. At present all we have are a bunch of 'expected to announce his resignation' reports based on anonymous sources. Modest Geniustalk10:45, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
OK, support posting now he's actually announced he's going. But the blurb should make it clear he's resigning once a successor has been chosen, not now - I added alt2. The article also needs to be up to scratch. Modest Geniustalk11:58, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Davey2116. Also, by the end of his time as Prime Minister, it won't be news, it'll be a pre-scheduled event. -- Zanimum (talk) 10:50, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose We're all agreed we'll post the news of a new prime minister, so pointless having two blurbs on the same subject. Just wait until the new leader comes to office. Gopchunk (talk) 11:52, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose As of right now he has only resigned the party leadership, not his prime ministership (at least not initially), can post once a new prime minister is chosen, and it would qualify under ITN/R criteria. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 12:05, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Question for those that know UK politics - how long can it be anticipated that the successor will be named? A few days? Weeks or months? If the later, then this clearly should be posted now along with the replacement, but if we can expect a new name in a few days, wait until then. (The article quality is good so that's not an issue). --Masem (t) 12:16, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Probably 3-6 weeks while the Conservatives hold their leadership contest. Johnson might go faster if he's forced to leave now and an interim takes over, but again that would just be while the leadership contest continues. Modest Geniustalk12:30, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, I'd say about 3-6 weeks too. This has more info, but nothing about the actual timescales. I guess it depends on how many step forward for nomination. Or indeed, how many step back leaving just one person standing forward... LugnutsFire Walk with Me13:21, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose resignation by itself should not be mentioned unless extraordinary circumstances surrounded it (assassination, coup-d'etat, Watergate-like cockups etc.). I think the ITN blurb should only be posted once the new leader emerges. Szmenderowiecki (talk) 12:27, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think that's a very small price to pay for ITN capturing what is obviously a very newsworthy story at the absolute pinnacle of its importance to the U.K. and to the rest of the world, much the same way we post U.S. business deals/mergers/acquisitions as they are announced and not after all the SEC paperwork is filled out and completed. We would look damn foolish still having a headline up about a national hockey championship that happened three weeks ago, when the rest of the world has already moved on to bigger fish. 🌈WaltCip-(talk)12:49, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's not national, it's the world's biggest event in club ice hockey and the championship of the world's strongest league and the Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnepeg. Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal teams are all Canadian. Perhaps Niagara Falls, Canada and Windsor, Canada support Buffalo and Detroit respectively. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 13:27, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In any case, the point is that we should be posting items that are in the news now, for the sake of avoiding the appearance of stagnation and complacency on a publicly visible section of the main page. 🌈WaltCip-(talk)13:58, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support – Overwhelmingly the No. 1 story worldwide, per additional source links posted above. (Example: The main page of Reuters features two BoJo articles with large pics.) Details regarding how long he may remain as caretaker PM seem decidedly secondary. – Sca (talk) 12:36, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Resignations in ITN: United Kingdom Prime Minister David Cameron announces his resignation after the United Kingdom votes to leave the European Union. British Prime Minister Theresa May, under pressure over her handling of Brexit, announces her intention to resign. Grimes2 (talk) 13:05, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Unconditional support This is literally all over the place in the news and one of the more significant developments of Johnson's time as prime minister. "wait for the replacement" is just needless bureaucratic delay. I'll note that May's resignation was posted - and that one happened far less dramatically than this one. 107.190.33.254 (talk) 13:08, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - when a new PM is installed then as a new government head sure, but right now this is local politics. nableezy - 13:34, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: in the past, we haven’t waited until January 6th to declare a US presidential election for one candidate or another; we’ve done it as soon as it was called (last year’s insurrection notwithstanding). Sceptre (talk) 13:40, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
And did I miss the discussion where we decided that highly significant developments that are in the news no longer get featured on this page? — Amakuru (talk) 13:52, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I dont see how this is a highly significant development outside of the UK. But the argument I was responding to was we announced electoral victories when they happen, and that is not the case here. But as ever, ITN continues as one last English colony. Some minor country has, yet again, seen a PM not finish their term. Rush to ITN commence. nableezy - 15:21, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Casting the UK as a “minor country” is perhaps wishful thinking when squared up against the fact the UK remains a nuclear power with a permanent Security Council seat, and one of the world’s largest economies. This news item is the largest, or second-largest, item of the websites of a whole bunch of newspapers of record. Also, casting ITN as a English colony is pretty a cute line, but fails against the reality that a collegiate basketball tournament in America is on ITNR but a major international tournament in the world’s most popular sport isn’t. Sceptre (talk) 17:35, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Being a Free Mason used to be indicative of some importance too. This aint 1948 anymore and the UNSC permanent seats system in which the victors of WWII now and forever have a veto right over international peace and security is sillier than how the arguments about "This news item is the largest, or second-largest, item of the websites of a whole bunch of newspapers of record" applies to any number of events but are routinely shot down here because oh it happened in the US. As far as economies, the UK is responsible for about 2% of world GDP. The GDP of a single American city compares. So yeah, minor. And almost routine, given this is what the third straight PM to resign? nableezy - 18:00, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There is a moralistic fallacy in what you’re saying, though; just because you may wish the UK was seen as a "minor country" doesn’t mean that it is. Despite Johnson and co's attempts to the contrary, the UK still does have some relevancy (although, I grant you, the days of being a superpower died in the Suez 70 years ago). It's not for us to say something isn’t significant when it very clearly is. Sceptre (talk) 18:31, 7 July 2022 (UTC) By the way, Template:U, May can’t have been a Freemason; she’s a woman.[reply]
Well, I'm an American and am the one who proposed this blurb, as it is ITN (and I happened to be awake when his resignation was announced). I don't see this as any different than if the President of the United States announced his resignation. We'd blurb that too. -- RockstoneSend me a message!19:14, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support alternative blurb, reflects a major UK news story that has received international coverage. The alternative blurb gives the most accurate and concise summary of these significant events that have been built up to for some time. SoThisIsPeter (talk) 14:02, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support - important global news, significant in itself; "local politics" or "wait until new PM" arguments just seem silly here; this is a dramatic development (big Cabinet revolt) in a P5 member state. Neutralitytalk14:17, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Per precedent (Theresa May) and the fact that this story is front page news globally (and will be far bigger news that his successor being appointed). Most of the Oppose comments are quite weak, but without banging the US-centric drum again I think it's fairly obvious that, say, a US President resigning after a third of his government resigned en masse would be posted in around five minutes. Black Kite (talk)14:27, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Posting. I am not sure if the alt is better but the headlines say "Johnson resigns", so that's the story. --Tone14:50, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting question So from now on, the argument that "there is a precedent" is already valid? Recall that this argument was rejected in multiple previous nominations. Or is it only so when it is arbitrarily decided? This is a serious question. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 16:46, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not necessarily, but when people are saying things along the line of "ITN posts it when a successor is appointed", it's reasonable to point out that isn't always the case. Black Kite (talk)17:52, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
What we need to do is, for future nominations, agree on whether using the "there is a precedent" argument can be sufficient for a nomination, as it is in this case, to prosper and not be used in reverse to reject votes. And I speak, for example, this discussion. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 18:13, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There's a reason why precedence is such a prominent feature of common-law courts: it's a great way of ensuring fairness in similar cases. ITN really should adopt something like it for that exact reason. I'd go so far as to say that it'd be useful in adjudicating all disputes at Wikipedia. -- RockstoneSend me a message!21:59, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I believe precedence is a bad concept (and live in a civil law country), why should we be bound to previous decisions that may have been wrong? Especially for ITN, there are no fixed laws, it soley depends on the prevailing opinion in the people that chose to involve themselves at that time point. Chaosquo (talk) 06:47, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting Support Given my previous opposition on posting various aspects of this crisis, this is definitely the point that such a posting is appropriate. Presumably there will another ITN when the new Prime Minister is chosen. Nfitz (talk) 08:18, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose a local artwork/monument has been intentionally blown up, that's not ITN worthy material. If the actual Stonehenge had been destroyed, that would be ITN worthy, but this is not. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:07, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose supporting this nomination would be a clear US-bias. Neither is it a world-renowned and popular monument, nor is this event of outstanding national and international interest and coverage. Suggest snow close. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 08:13, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Joseph. A bunch of granite slabs installed by some unknown freak are blown up by another unknown freak. Breaking news, really~ Arado Ar 196 (C✙T) 11:02, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support article is good enough for RD, and animals are eligible for RD if they have their own article (which is the case here). I think we should probably list on the front page as Tricia (elephant), to avoid confusion with Trisha of Trisha Goddard (TV series) (formerly just known as "Trisha"). That's the first person I would think of if I saw Tricia listed on RD. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:12, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hello there. Thanks for this note. Can you add Template:Cn or other tags as necessary where citations are missing? Like I said, I have been busy and have not had a chance to work this article but the article looked reasonable on a superficial glance. Ktin (talk) 15:09, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Deployment of footnotes seems reasonable to me. Length (800+ words) is okay, too. No formatting problems. This wikibio is READY for RD. --PFHLai (talk) 22:46, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose Filmography section unsourced and the 2000s and 2010s section of his career have some tags/need ref work. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 18:21, 7 July 2022 (UTC)Support Article looks good for RD posting, would not be opposed to blurb. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 03:07, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Legendary actor, see how he is described. Many tributes and many publications across media. I do not quite see what is borderline disruptive, especially since there are no other RDs submitted for blurbs currently and there haven't been for some time. Kirill C1 (talk) 20:19, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No Blurb Patrick Watson, Hank Goldberg and Pedro Ferrándiz were also recently called legends who worked with top colleagues for decades, to name just a few. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:43, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think a better comparison would be Ray Liotta, another recently deceased actor who was highly accredited and renowned, but didn't quite meet the high threshold to which we hold the death of public figures as being blurb-worthy. Kurtis(talk)00:08, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Pedro Ferrándiz - 7 wiki articles, Patrick Watson - 4 wiki articles, Hank Goldberg - 2 wiki articles. You can imagine how many wiki articles has Caan. Completely different levels of notability. Kirill C1 (talk) 20:52, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb Numerous film appearance does not equate to being a top of their field person. There's nothing in the article related to his legacy, and it doesn't even look like he won any awards. Rd is sufficient once the article is better sourced. --Masem (t) 21:13, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
After post comment, I have removed two citations at "personal life" section (not verified and non-RS), leaving two cn tags there. Alexcalamaro (talk) 21:55, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Mostly support - Agree that a couple parts of the career section could use citations but other than that looks good to me. Someone's gone through and thoroughly cited it, changing to support. PolarManne (talk) 15:07, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support This article is ready barring a citation needed in "Personal life" section, which should be fixed first before posting this to ITN. Behind that, it was absolutely shocking to see Takahashi and Abe dying in the same day. MarioJump83 (talk) 02:01, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Post posting support per article quality, although I do wish that there had been a bit more consensus to post before just going for it. Cheers! Fakescientist800011:54, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Excuse me, was I too quick? Please be encouraged to scroll up and down ITN/C. There are quite a number of (unattended) noms scattered along this page that could use some reviews, suggestions and support votes. Thanks. -- PFHLai (talk) 21:11, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose at this time as there is really no change to the main control of the government yet, but it is a situation to watch. --Masem (t) 20:25, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Probably best to wait until something more significant happens i.e. The PM resigns/is ousted. Furthermore, consider removing the section in the blurb about the Pincher scandal, although some resignations are probably related to this, it is probably a clumination of this plus Partygate and the Second Jobs scandal TRAVBRUHH (talk) 20:36, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Prime Minister Johnson doing something unforgivable, apologizing profusely, mass resignations, and nothing much happens, is a regular occurrence. If the story was all about Chancellor Sunak resigning, then it might be debatable - but the stories all seem to be phrased as being about Johnson's future. Nfitz (talk) 20:43, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose it's been a s**t show for months/years. No change except BJ might actually finally go this time. Or maybe he'll prorogue parliament again. Either way we must wait. Polyamorph (talk) 20:44, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait He's under pressure to resign, but if he ignores this pressure, then this is just another item on the growing list of Johnson scandals. We'll have to wait and see what happens. Vanilla Wizard 💙21:38, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose until and unless the PM resigns and there's a new PM, in which case ITNR new head of government. -- KTC (talk) 22:23, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and close for now it's the typical government crisis that happens in a country. And it's neither the only one nor the most exceptional. What is truly ITNR is whether Johnson ends up resigning and a new PM is appointed. So this nomination must be closed until Johnson quits, if it happens. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 22:24, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: is this even an option? If one dislikes a nomination enough, can one disrupt the process by demanding discussion is halted until a point he deems convenient? complainer08:39, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose People can resign til the cows come home, but the only resignation that would truly matter would be that of the top man at 10 Downing Street. --🌈WaltCip-(talk)22:32, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
With so much coverage missing from this stubby wikibio, there is no point in thinking about any rule-bending to let this late nom through. After adding the prose on his coaching the North Stars and working as GM in Minnesota, we'll also need prose on his work as GM in Vancouver. That's three big sections missing! Have fun writing about the Neely-Wesley giveaway. I know some Canuck fans who are still upset about that lopsided trade with Boston decades later.... --PFHLai (talk) 00:53, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality as the text is one paragraph, and article has two sources. Much more that can be said about him. Note, as there were more than 2 days between his date of death and announcement date, this won't go stale until a week after the date of announcement. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:30, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Ping Happy to post, but could you please explain the sourcing style you've selected for the #Work section? Some sections have citations per line, one with a "Source" listed at the start, and others with none at all. Anarchyte (talk) 14:39, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There are (as for Peter Brook, last week) several lists of works by him, all at the beginning. Some works have additional extra sources. ALl this wasn't chosen by us but the orinal writers of the German articles (if that had any sources, - often enough not). #12 Schott is the most detailed of the secondary sources, and then there's his own which I think we could trust also. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:45, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hello there. Thanks for this note. Can you add Template:Cn or other tags as necessary where citations are missing? Like I said, I have been busy and have not had a chance to work this article but the article looked reasonable on a superficial glance. Ktin (talk) 15:09, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Deployment of footnotes seems reasonable to me. Length (800+ words) is okay, too. No formatting problems. This wikibio is READY for RD. --PFHLai (talk) 22:46, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Honestly I really think Sri Lanka's economic crisis needs to be included in ongoing, and I would prefer that over blurbing this specifically, cause its in the news, and keeps coming up. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 15:05, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality I could support this, but the article is in poor shape with an orange tag, many inline tags, and there doesn't appear to be an update, merely saying that the bill is due in July. The timeline section ends at May. This will be a long haul to get into shape. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:18, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality article is orange-tagged as POV. It cannot be posted until that is fixed. That being said, a country declaring bankruptcy is unusual, so might be ITN worthy if article is fixed. Joseph2302 (talk) 15:20, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In principle this is an important and blurb-worthy story, but it's not clear if this is the right moment and the article needs substantial work. There are NPOV and failed verification tags, the whole text could do with a careful copyedit, and some parts seem to be out of date. The most recent events mentioned are from 22 June, which is too stale for ITN. Worse, the actual news from 5 July just seems to be the PM using the word 'bankrupt' when describing negotiations with the IMF - that's not a formal declaration and it isn't clear how much worse it is than the previous announcement of debt default. Overall, I think a better option would be to put this in ongoing once the article has been cleaned up - which will be quite a bit of work. Modest Geniustalk15:29, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I think is important to show the crisis of Sri Lanka because it is worst every day and it is very related to other social crisis that right now are happeningFederizaguirre (talk) 18:48, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support – It may not be a good piece of news but it is definitely a significant development, and may be close to once in a generation event. – Soup (Talk with me) 00:11, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality – As long as there is a neutrality tag, this can't go onto the main page. Once that's resolved, I could support this. Schwede6602:20, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - I may be mistaken, but the PM's use of the word seems to be as some sort of figure of speech, often reported in the news with inverted commas. It was never clearly stated/implied in the news reports that there is some kind of technical economic/legal definition of a country being bankrupt (if there is one). Ongoing will be suitable, with blurbs for appropriate discrete events such as making some financial deal with the IMF/World Bank etc Bumbubookworm (talk) 04:07, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - per Bumbubookworm. It seems the usage of the word "bankrupt" is a figure of speech and not an actual statement of the facts. Carter00000 (talk) 13:06, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Lacks significance, better as a fact for DYK. Also the article doesn't even mention this fact, even in the section titled "Sales". 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 13:22, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support A company that is obscure in the west producing the most electric vehicles is both significant and useful for our readers to know. BilledMammal (talk) 13:42, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support - Business news is an underrepresented topic on ITN; has been ever since we started ITN (when we used to have something called minority topics). I'm in favor of broadening our horizons in this front, even if it's not as sexy a story as people might expect to see out of the business world. --WaltCip-(talk)14:18, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Amakuru as well. This seems like general MILL coverage and not the in depth journalism I'd expect for a claim of this nature. PRAXIDICAE🌈14:19, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose trivia that isn't ground breaking, and rankings change all the time. That's even before the article quality issue that it's not even mentioned in the target article. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:35, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. A 'so what?' piece of news. If they had become the largest car manufacturer overall that might be worth a blurb, but restricting the numbers to one power source isn't very meaningful. We wouldn't post the biggest diesel car company, and didn't post when Tesla become the largest electric car company either. I agree it's a neat factoid that might work at DYK, but the article isn't new; it would need to be improved to GA standards to qualify. Modest Geniustalk15:35, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Immediately after the Early life and education section comes the Death section? Where is the Career section? The longest section at this time is the Intro. This stubby wikibio needs major expansion and re-structuring. --PFHLai (talk) 00:35, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality The death of a secretary general in multinational organizations like OPEC should be notable enough that they might deserve a mention in ITN, but unfortunately the lack of career section torpedoes this. That's unfortunate. MarioJump83 (talk) 01:54, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support good to go. Nominate for RD a secretary general of an international organization, that his article doesn't talk about what he did during his tenure and claim that "that's not a requirement for RD" is insane. Improving the article is also the responsibility of the nominator. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 14:32, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Question: Which wikipage(s) is/are the ITN candidate(s) here? The nom template shows "| article = Fields Medal", but Fields Medal is not bolded in the blurb. This wikipage has a few unsourced statements in the Landmark section, including one about a 2022 winner. Please add REFs. Thanks. --PFHLai (talk) 11:33, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the clarification. Hugo is a stub and should be expanded. The Fields Medal was mentioned in the intro of the other three wikibios, but not in the main body. Please elaborate in the main prose what they have done to earn the medal. Just adding 8 words to the intro does not seem like an adequate update for ITN purposes. June is a borderline-stub/start class article. His various positions are mentioned in the intro but not in the main prose. If these can be elaborated upon in the main prose, say in the Career section, this wikibio won't be a stub anymore. --PFHLai (talk) 12:34, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support. ITNR and all four articles meet our minimum requirements. Looks good to go to me. It's pleasing that we had articles on all of these people before they won the prize. I don't have a problem with Coplin's article, though as it's the shortest maybe the order should be changed so it isn't the first bold link. Added a slightly tweaked blurb. Modest Geniustalk10:40, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Great idea. I added Maryna Viazovska's image to the main page a few minutes ago, and I've updated WP:CMP to include the rest of the recipients to facilitate image changes later on. I suggest posting on WP:ERRORS for updates now that it's been posted. Anarchyte (talk) 13:59, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose gun crime in US is routine. I expect all the US people who voted against the Copenhagen shooting (which was in a country that doesn't encourage gun violence) to vote oppose to this too, lest they all be biased hypocrites. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:24, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This is exactly the type of comment that we just discussed at WT:ITN that is on the road to incivility. Wholly inappropriate. Masem (t) 18:39, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Calling out bias is acceptable if it exists. Currently nobody has voted no to Copenhagen and yes to this, but if they do, then they need to think about whether they have a US bias. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:48, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support I was just drafting the nomination for this nomination. No, not just another routine shooting. People don't get shot at parades everyday. This shooting is receiving a lot of news coverage and our article is of good quality thus far, though it still needs some expansion. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:29, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I really hope that people learn to comment better than this. Your lack of understanding of gun violence in the United States is not helpful for these the. Only comment on the nomination at hand, not the nomination in another thread – Muboshgu (talk) 18:36, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Supporting the nice start of an article on a shooting at a 4th of July. Parade is bias? While you oppose the posting of a shooting with six deaths and support one with three deaths. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:41, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I don't think this is currently significant enough to be blurbed. Perhaps if the number of casualties increases and/or some strong motive emerges. YD407OTZ (talk) 18:34, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support -- this is not just a routine shooting. People don't routinely get shot and killed in the US at parades, and most gun crime is related to gang violence, which this is not. This also seems like an act of terrorism. -- RockstoneSend me a message!18:37, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Frequent, regularly occurring and predictable events are not significant.
Comment If I had to guess, both this and the Copenhagen proposed blurb are going to be closed without consensus developing to post. Maybe it's a good idea to prematurely close them both now, so we don't end up slinging mud at each other. -- RockstoneSend me a message!18:42, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support despite the proclivity for gun violence in the US, believe it or not we do not often have sniper shootings. This is significant and receiving a lot of worldwide coverage and the article is well written. PRAXIDICAE🌈18:46, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Probably not a worthy thing to say but realistically... nobody outside of America would be interested (nor surprised) in seeing another shooting in the US. I'm personally kinda bored of seeing these kinds of news.
Oppose excluding this event there were 55 shootings in Chicago this weekend alone with 7 deaths there is absolutely no reason to single this one out for notability. --LaserLegs (talk) 19:09, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
We're not singling it out: the media is singling it out. Isn't our purpose here at In The News to showcase articles that are in the news? – Muboshgu (talk) 19:11, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
One wire report in the Chicago Sun-Times for the Chicago shootings, with every other publication running the Highland Park shooting is the media singling out the Highland Park shooting. BTW, this makes for a good place to point out that Highland Park is not Chicago. Chicago has lots of shootings, while Highland Park is the site of John Hughes movies. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:48, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now. It's not a school shooting, there's no ideological motive, and the death toll isn't high enough to be particularly notable on its own. If this changes then I'll consider flipping my vote. GeicoHen (talk) 19:09, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's not a standard shooting either. Most shootings in the US and I'd say everywhere else are not carried out by snipers... PRAXIDICAE🌈19:14, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think the sniper aspect of the shooting is going to grab the public's attention the same way high death tolls, motives, or the victims being children do. GeicoHen (talk) 19:17, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait There are a lot basic question unanswered. If this turns out to be just another run of the mill mass shooting, I would oppose. But if it turns out to be a terrorist incident, I likely would support. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:14, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now per Joseph, GeicoHen etc. And how about we stop censoring people's views just because we disagree with them. Much as its unfortunate and sad, and RIP to the victims, Six people is not a high number for a US shooting. We're also not posting the Copenhagen one as the death toll was low, so it's not anti US bias. — Amakuru (talk) 19:24, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's not really "still there", because it's been collapsed. Someone casually looking over the thread would think the first vote is a support. — Amakuru (talk) 20:11, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Frequent, regularly occurring and predictable local events are not significant. A major shooting in a country every few years would be notable. Weekly events aren't I've got the news on now - they literally just said mass shooting occur DAILY in this particular country. Nfitz (talk) 20:10, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's still far more than the once a century to once a decade that normal countries have; it's not even the first shooting of this size this year! That a page like List of mass shootings in the United States in 2022 even exists, let alone is so large that it should probably be broken down per month. But hang on - looking at that list, it ONLY included mass shooting with 4 or more injuries. There's been 11 shootings (almost one every 2 weeks) with more than 5 deaths, and 290 shootings in about 185 days. The death toll this year alone is near 400 people. There's no way we should doing an ITN every couple of weeks, for such a common event. Nfitz (talk) 22:07, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Juxlos just gave me a great idea. We should blurb every U.S. shooting that gets the "No Way to Prevent This" treatment from The Onion. If it doesn't get its own Onion send-up, we don't post it. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:40, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
A sniper at an event where the gun situation is completely out-of-control is very predictable, not surprising, and not significant on anything other than a local scale. I'll predict that this isn't the last similar event this year - which is unfathomable. Nfitz (talk) 22:10, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Illinois governor J. B. Pritzker said: "“While we celebrate the Fourth of July just once a year, mass shootings have become our weekly – yes, weekly – American tradition." Sniper shooting someone, everyday gun violence, it's all guns, it's all Americans. This is not news; it should be filed under "Ongoing events". Ericoides (talk) 05:09, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, the "weekly American tradition" of mass shootings. Just because it's a sniper or a parade or a music festival or a school or whatever, it's just another traditional attack. Profoundly commonplace. >300 firearm deaths per day. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 07:48, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support. I (sadly) acknowledge that mass shootings are routine here in the U.S., but a sniper killing multiple people at a holiday parade is somewhat exceptional. Funcrunch (talk) 22:36, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, generally the names of the US states are sufficient to identify that this happened in the US. --Masem (t) 23:44, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree. Knowledge of one particular country's subregions shouldn't be expected of our readers. Especially when (to use just one example), Tokyo, the planet's most populous metropolitan area, is written as Tokyo, JapanChrisclear (talk) 02:36, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Readers shouldn't have to click on a link to find out such basic information. And again, if we provide the name of country in which a city of 37 million is found, it follows that we should do the same for a state with only 12 million people. Chrisclear (talk) 02:36, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder if you would apply the same criteria to Kano State, Sindh, Uttar Pradesh, and Metropolitan Manila, which are the most populous sub-national regions in four of the five-largest countries by English speaking populations. They all have larger populations than Illinois, with Uttar Pradesh having a population almost 6/10 the size of the entire US. However, you wouldn't expect a random guy from Chicago to know where any four of those are, just like how most of the world has no idea what or where Illinois is. We shouldn't be broadcasting our Americentrism on the Main Page for everyone to see. AryKun (talk) 08:18, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support I think a lot of the opposes happened before the death toll rose from the intial report of 2 to 6 and before there was a person of interest in custody. This story is more fleshed out now and worth presenting to the general reader. P.S. I was at the Hyde Park, Chicago parade that J. B. Pritzker was going to march at and saw his motorcade take off and head north around 11 AM. This story was not a routine Chicago shooting and changed the daily itinerary for our governor. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:50, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
When your inconvenienced governor Pritzker says, as he did yesterday, "While we celebrate the Fourth of July just once a year, mass shootings have become our weekly – yes, weekly – American tradition," I'm guessing that he might just come down on the "Oppose" side here. That is, unless he'd favour seeing a story like this on our front page every week just to, y'know, increase the coverage of a neglected part of the world. Ericoides (talk) 05:26, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment When I posted my oppose the death toll was already at 6. And a person of interest being in custody doesn’t make the shooting any more notable than it was beforehand. GeicoHen (talk) 05:09, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Ping But this isn't just any mass shooting; it's the first ever mass shooting involving a rooftop sniper interrupting a gubernatorial motorcade. That doesn't count for something in your book? WaltCip-(talk)11:51, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I know, right? Every mass shooting in America has some kind of bizarre circumstantial intersection that suddenly makes it inherently suitable for ITN, second-worst school shooting on a Monday in the Southern States which didn't involve an AR-15, fifth-worst shooting at a music event in western Texas since 2019 when it was raining etc. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 12:04, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support because it's clearly notable & the article is OK. But given the many opposes, maybe it's time to actually add the mass shootings article to Ongoing 😭 –Jiaminglimjm (talk) 07:40, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose - In the news, I guess, but roughly comparable to a bombing in Afghanistan, a massacre in Tigray, or executions in Syria- tragic, but routine and thus not notable. You can argue all you want, but when a country has shootings with double digit death tolls twice a month, it is routine. AryKun (talk) 07:59, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know about your statistic at the end: looking at the official Wikipedia page on mass shootings, double digit death tolls are more like 2-4 times per year. Still, I do agree that these kind of shootings (4-6 deaths), while tragic, are routine in the US, comparable with the examples you mentioned. YD407OTZ (talk) 09:20, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Mass shootings of this death toll & higher are common. It being done by a sniper on a roof doesn't make it more notable. I'm consistent & stated my opposition to Oslo & Copenhagen being posted as well. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 13:30, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Mass shootings are common in the United States, less so in affluent suburban communities, less so on parades for national holidays. But ITN has basically become a place for Europeans to scold Americans on their innate violence and ignoring that nearly 40% of English Wikipedia's readers come from the United States (click on Breakdown by country for English Wikipedia) and have this be the top news story in nearly every news source in the country and oddly not be considered "in the news" on Wikipedia. nableezy - 14:02, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with this assessment (partially because it's true). Most of Wikipedia's readership is from the United States. If this were, say, Swahili Wikipedia, sure, this would be a much different conversation. But this incident is large enough that it should warrant a mention, regardless of death toll, and it's relevant to a lot of people. WP:WAX does absolutely apply here, as well. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him)14:14, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
By all means suggest an American Wikipedia which could cater for the never-ending stream of US mass shooting nominations without hesitation. This, English language Wikipedia, and its news section, really needs to remember it's part of an encyclopedia. I very much doubt that 99% of the mass shootings that take place in the US would make it into an encyclopedia of world events. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 14:18, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The 1% of them that lead the headlines across the country do. Much like my plan to enforce secession on the South (but keep Arizona for the Grand Canyon), I dont think Ill be able to get an American Wikipedia, but I do think this instinctive "shootings are routine in the US" from an overrepresented segment of the community is doing a disservice to our readers. Which I thought is what we were here for. nableezy - 14:23, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You are correct about the tone of some Oppose votes, but that comes with the territory. It is not our purpose here to bloviate "thoughts and prayers" like politicians. We understand that all massacres are tragic, but the discussion at ITNC (not ITN) should center on significance per our standards. This necessarily requires an editor to diminish seemingly important events. GreatCaesarsGhost14:24, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, "lead the headlines" is just another word for tabloidism when it comes to mass shootings I'm afraid. I suggest we're close to having a separate ticker for "mass shootings in the US" if we open the floodgates and allow this to become American Wikipedia. People just make up bizarre intersections to somehow "ennoble" these routine events, and its pitiful really, and harmful to an eneyclopedic endeavour. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 14:27, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I cant understand how of all places "In the news" does not "lead [with] the headlines". Yes, not every mass shooting in the US should be included. That doesnt mean that this one should not be included. There are a bunch of reasons this one is "in the news" more so than other shootings in Chicago, some of them racist, some of them classist, some of them just at the shock of it occurring at a Fourth of July parade. But regardless of why one of those stories carried the headlines across the country, it did. That, to me at least, means it should be "in the news" here as well. nableezy - 14:31, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You can feel that way, but the coverage of it indicates that it is indeed shocking. At least to the largest represented country, by a long shot, our readers hail from. But, again, that overrepresented group of editors here created an inherent hostility to coverage of anything American, especially this. nableezy - 14:38, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Respectfully, your comments reflect a fundamental misunderstand of our purpose. While this section is called "In the news" it is not meant to reflect top news stories. GreatCaesarsGhost14:41, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That is an odd reading of while Monday's shooting outside Chicago was unexpected. Yes, another mass shooting anywhere in the US will likely occur sometime this week if not today. But that does not mean that this one, widely covered across the world (see BBC, Guardian, AFP, ...), is not significant. You know how many non-Europeans give a half a shit about Eurovision? About three. Still on here every year. nableezy - 14:53, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oh dear. Never mind! You're comparing ITNR entry about the Eurovision Song Contest to these weekly mass shootings? (I'll admit it's got a bit crap since Israel and Australia joined but hey...) Honestly, that comparison officially losing the plot. Cheers now! The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 14:56, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No, Im not complaining, Im saying that outside interest of a subject is not determinative of its noteworthiness or inclusion in ITN. nableezy - 14:57, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
As I noted, the ESC is INTR, feel free to nominate its removal. Mass shootings happen every week in the US, there's nothing remarkable about them until they rise to the grim level of Uvalde or similar. This one is run of the mill, tragic as it is, and I bet $100 we'll see another one in the next two weeks with a similar or worse death toll. It's not surprising ever, it is occasionally shocking, but not really to those of outside the US. Sorry about that. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 15:00, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Update I've majorly expanded and sourced it. All the information needed is in the references, I know there's more placing of them to do to the prose. The club career needs to be expanded and the politician career needs to be added and sources found for that.Abcmaxx (talk) 15:16, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Ping The actual sources are all there for the playing career I just need to put them in all the right places. I will expand too once I get the chance, please bear with.Abcmaxx (talk) 22:12, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Update Did so much to expand and reference this, every single thing is referenced with WP:RS, all aspects of his life and death have been noted, and I believe this should be more than enough to post now.Abcmaxx (talk) 01:03, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nice expansion from 84 words to almost 800 words in about one day. This is obviously long enough to qualify now. No concerns regarding formatting and deployment of footnotes. (I gotta AGF all the non-English sources.) This is READY for RD to me. One small issue: The "Hairdresser" corruption scandal seems out of place in a section with "Legacy" in the header, and there isn't much info on this story. Can this be elaborated either in the article or in the linked article? Perhaps "Death and legacy" can be re-named "Personal life" and expanded to include info on birth (a good place to put a footnote for the DoB), upbringing and where he resided during his retirement before he died, etc.? Then this "scandal" would not look too out of place. --PFHLai (talk) 13:55, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Ping Polish Wikipedia is much better on this topic which has been widely studied and written about. In a nutshell; the 70s-80s "Poland's golden squad" went onto running Polish football and its FA. In 2004 a man nickname "Fryzjer" ("hairdresser") was prosecuted for corruption and buying matches; turns out that the golden generation started and facilitated essentially a massive fraudulent and corrupt match-fixing mafia where the FA, and nearly every club player and coach in Poland for the last 30 years was involved. This guy was in that group, close associate of Lato, Boniek and Forbrich (the "hairderesser", ring-leader), and was almost certainly a central figure. Abcmaxx (talk) 16:46, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It should be a standalone article ideally as on Polish wiki, which arguably could be split into more sub-articles, with the "hairdresser list" article" and an article on the man himself, all missing from English Wikipedia sadly. I shall do my best to try and rectify this one day, but as you can image, it took long enough just to get this RD up to scratch, never mind such a vast topic which could span easily a whole cluster of articles.Abcmaxx (talk) 20:19, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Take your time, if you plan to work on that. For this particular wikibio, something to explain what the "Hairdresser corruption scandal" refers to would be helpful. As a reader, I was a little lost and frustrated there after clicking the wikilink and not getting any relevant info. Some info for readers unfamiliar with the scandal would be nice. --PFHLai (talk) 21:31, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - there's some doubt about whether he actually will face Carlsen. Carlsen has previously said that he won't defend his title unless it's against Alireza Firouzja. — Amakuru (talk) 07:01, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support, well-referenced and comprehensive – however, because it is not certain that Carlsen will defend his title, maybe the last four words "to face Magnus Carlsen" should be removed. (If Carlsen refuses to defend his title, the regulations state that Nepomniachtchi will face whoever takes 2nd in the Candidates, so he will be playing regardless.) Double sharp (talk) 07:04, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think so. I just looked at ITN after the last three candidates and saw no sign we posted them. I'd suggest this doesn't rise to the level of significance for posting, (also not seeing much coverage in mainstream news outside of dedicated chess sites) and if we add anything then it should be the world rapid and blitz rather than this, which is just a ticket to a greater event... — Amakuru (talk) 08:03, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose firstly, not convinced this is ITN-worthy, as it isn't covered highly in mainstream sources (in their main news article sections). Secondly, the article has a lot of information on how people qualified for the event, which is fine, but only a table of results for the actual matches themselves. As with many sports articles, needs more prose about the event itself to meet the article quality threshold. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:29, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is a big development is a widely covered sport/competition. I'm not convinced that the fact lots of news outlets bypassed this is a valid argument; lots of very significant events get missed all the time depending on where in the world you are. Abcmaxx (talk) 08:55, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per my comments above and Joseph2302. I follow developments in the chess world quite closely, so I was aware of this happening, but I think it's wider significance is not huge - it's a stepping stone to a very big event, in the world championship, but only that. We don't post the AFC Championship Game in American football for example, which is the gateway to the Super Bowl, or the 2022 FIFA World Cup qualification. I also think the omission of the story from mainstream media as a "breaking news" item is significant (most will probably cover it next weekend in their weekly chess sections). If they don't cover it then that means the world at large has deemed it not so significant, and it is WP:UNDUE and WP:OR to say we should be covering it. Finally, per Joseph, there will need to be prose added for the event itself it it's to meet the quality bar. — Amakuru (talk) 09:33, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose It doesn’t make a lot of sense to post the qualifying tournament when we will post the actual event when it occurs, subject to quality. Also, as the full template has not been used (who is the nominator?) there has been no evidence of news coverage provided, which is s requirement. Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:01, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I understand why this was nominated, which is reasonable, and it has received media coverage (contrary to some of the comments above). But fundamentally it's the qualifying tournament for the world championship; we should post the latter instead, when it occurs. WP:ITNR has an average of 1.5 chess stories per year, plus we've posted additional blurbs when there has been a new world number one in the rankings. That seems about right for the level of public interest, so I don't see a need to post additional tournaments. Modest Geniustalk12:14, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
PS. I expect there will be more mainstream media reports once the tournament ends tomorrow. Currently Nepomniachtchi has an unassailable lead and has finished his matches, but there are a few others still to play their last games. Modest Geniustalk12:20, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support While the article could go into a little depth about her academic contributions, it meets minimum standards and is well-referenced. SpencerT•C23:52, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the war is at ongoing, and we don't need to post every single event that happens in the war. Because ITN is not a news ticker for the war. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:23, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
While I agree that ITN should not be a ticker for the conflict (as it would likely be quickly overwhelmed), the capture of a whole Oblast is a major milestone in Russia's stated aims for the conflict. Carter00000 (talk) 16:41, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If they do stop the war, or at least halt is with a temporary ceasefire, that would be worth posting on ITN. But speculating it may happen is not a reason to post this. Joseph2302 (talk) 15:55, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The capture of a whole Oblast is a major milestone in Russia's stated aims for the conflict. While this is not a turning point, it should be considered a notable point in the overall conflict. Carter00000 (talk) 16:41, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Lysychansk is significant, given that it is the last area to fall in a Oblast, prior to becoming fully under Russian control. Carter00000 (talk) 16:41, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
So is Kherson, and it has 3x the population. Mariupol has closer to 5x. “Last city in an administrative division” is an arbitrary line. Juxlos (talk) 23:56, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support this is the kind of significant strategic update that is worth consideration beyond ongoing (as was Mariupol). The article is about the city of Lysychansk but it's clear from reliable sources that Russia now controls the entire oblast. Given that Russias main objective seems to be the Donbas this actually feels like a important albeit grim milestone. Weak because I'm not sure the proposed target article highlights the scope of the territory lost. --LaserLegs (talk) 17:22, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose covered by ongoing, and not a particularly notable capture. I would be open to blurbing if/when Russia succeeds in capturing the full Donbas region (i.e. Donetsk + Luhansk oblasts), as that was one of their stated initial goals. YD407OTZ (talk) 19:16, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose they started in 2014, its of no significant importance to the wider conflict and they only captured the last settlement as a result of a tactical retreat rather than any conquest, which means this is going to change so many times still. Also they have not "captured" anything; occupation is not the same as full control, at the moment even in Kherson which has been occupied since February they have not had full control yet. Furthermore the LPR isn't a real state, it's puppet quasi-state through Russian invention and we should be careful how we word these blurbs.Abcmaxx (talk) 01:28, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support on notability and article quality, but rephrase blurb. With respect to notability, this is a major development in the Russo-Ukrainian war (it's a clear and stated goal of the Russian Federation) and the region itself is larger by landmass than fifty sovereign states. The argument above that "this does not seem to be a turning point" is something that we can only really evaluate by looking into a crystal ball, which of course we can't. We don't need to post every event in the war, but we should post the significant ones such as when an entire Oblast falls. The article also seems to be in good enough shape to post. That being said, it might be better to say Template:Tqb than the current blurb; most sources seem to be framing it this way rather than crediting the LPR with taking the city. — Ⓜ️hawk10 (talk) 17:48, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - I won't go as far as some of the above commentary to presume the significance of this event (apparently ITN/C seems to be full of military strategists), but ongoing should cover most of what's going on here.--🌈WaltCip-(talk)14:35, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Major milestone in the invasion, especially with an unrecognized state (the Luhansk People's Republic) capturing all of its claimed territories. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks♥) 19:17, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose So far there is no concrete indication this is actually an important milestone for anyone, and it is covered by the ongoing article. Yakikaki (talk) 20:06, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - just on a point of order re death announcement date, according to [57] his obituary was published in the NY Times on June 26. I can't find the original article online, but the obit was reproduced on legacy.com on that same day. — Amakuru (talk) 06:57, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Well, at least the wikibio was readied and the nomination was posted here within 7 days of that publication. --PFHLai (talk) 12:34, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Amakuru, you have a fair point there. This is indeed a late nom. We can reject this nom for the lateness. Considering how few solid RD noms we get these days, let's be nice (and bend the rules a little bit) and put this on ITN. --PFHLai (talk) 04:06, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I could understand me or another regular cantankerous fart calling the recent death noms' fortitude into question, but you're the one who's been posting the most by far lately; if you don't mind me asking (nicely), what's up with that? InedibleHulk (talk) 00:45, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Surprised this hasn't been commented on yet. Anyway Support for Original blurb Article seems to be in good shape. The "Protests" section could use some more expansion, but that should be taken care of as more info comes out. Mount Patagonia (talk) 04:28, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Given that the Government of Uzbekistan has already withdrawn the plans which caused the unrest after a few days of the unrest. Unlikely for the unrest to continue or increase in intensity. Carter00000 (talk) 12:55, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that people managed to get an authoritarian leader to do what they want is significant. And this isn't stale unlike most of the current ITN items.... Joseph2302 (talk) 15:03, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Original blurb, it is in the news and article seems fine, so really no complaints there. I find that the alt blurbs are too wordy though. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 13:57, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for quality typical disaster stub. The protests section itself is very short the infobox claims 18 killed and the article simply references non-specific "protesters had attempted to storm government buildings". Did the deaths occur while storming a government building or during the protests the day before? Which government building(s)? Needs a lot more detail to be MP ready. Assuming they were killed protesting and not while unlawfully storming a government building then support any blurb which excludes the word "deadly". Just do our standard "At least X people are killed during Y in Z place" that we use for all the disaster stubs. --LaserLegs (talk) 17:30, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Posted. There is consensus that this can be promoted. I needed a replacement item for the 2022 San Antonio trailer deaths article as that is in a state of mess. This seemed the best one on offer. -- Schwede66 01:21, 2022 July 5 (UTC)
Wait what? You pulled an article that's fine except for needing some expansion on the "investigation" which is ongoing and replaced it with a piece of trash that doesn't even explain where these supposed 18 casualties took place? How does that make sense? --LaserLegs (talk) 10:53, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
3 dead and 3 wounded critically is frankly a testament to those very strict gun control laws working. That barely makes the news in the USA. EvergreenFir(talk)01:48, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait Article is currently a stub. It doesn't even have the number of dead in it yet. Wait until reliable sources pick up on this, and we can expand it further and further. Cheers! Fakescientist800020:10, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality. It's obvious that it's notorious in a country whose crime levels are very low in a continent where mass shootings are very rare. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 20:37, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree with this assessment; mass shootings are never inherently notable merely because of where it took place. Nonetheless, it seems like this is an incident of terrorism. If that turns out to be the case, then it should be posted. -- RockstoneSend me a message!22:19, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Of course they are. If mass shootings are as rare as rocking horse shit then they are immediately notable. Just as the opposite applies. Regardless of whether this is terrorism or not, multiple deaths in a mass shooting in a country (like many) where mass shootings practically never happen is notable enough. Plus being widely reported in RS around the world, so no doubt at all to the suitability for ITN. Just needs a quality update. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:28, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait for quality improvements and precise figures, but support on notability. Denmark, not unlike Norway, has one of the lowest intentional homicide rates in the world. Vanilla Wizard 💙21:54, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hate to pile this one, but with some reported death in a country that rarely has violent attacks, this is definitely ITN material, but it really needs expansion. Wait. --Masem (t) 22:56, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know who you mean by "they", but "Police chief Soeren Thomassen said there was no indication that the shooting was an act of terror". InedibleHulk (talk) 06:26, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The earlier reports were, but I have seen they have stepped back away from that claim since I posted that comment above. Masem (t) 12:48, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose — Denmark has only had three mass shootings in its history that in total have killed 7 people. This is hardly notable enough for ITN. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him)01:21, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose because it's not important enough & the article is too short. It looks like it was a lone attacker & there's no indication of the shooting having an ideological motive. That makes it a lot less notable than attacks carried out by international terrorist groups. The death toll is three; we'd never post a mass shooting with a death toll that low if it happened in Africa, Asia or the Americas, unless at least one of the victims was very notable. We shouldn't post it just because it's rare in its country of occurrence. We wouldn't post a minor earthquake in a country which rarely has earthquakes. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 01:58, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Wait – Fairly widely covered because it's Europe, but per AP lacks significance as shooter acted alone, was mentally troubled. – Sca (talk) 12:17, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Things are in the news because they are remarkable which is why "man bites dog" is news and "dog bites man" usually is not. A mass shooting in a country which has no real history of such crimes (three in total according to ElijahPepe above) is notable even if the crime were non-notable in a country where such events are commonplace. And we regularly post such events even in the US where they occur basically every day. Regards SoWhy12:37, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that is exactly my point. In the US, three people being shot in a mall is "just another Monday" (a dog biting a man, if you so wish). But it's not in Denmark. PS: Denmark has only 1.5% of the population that the US has, so three people dead there would equal ~200 dead in the US. That is, if one were measuring news by the amount of people dead alone. *shrug* Regards SoWhy13:54, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In terms of population density Denmark is ranked 92 (346 per sqmi), but US is ranked 185 (88 per sqmi). So theoretically it's much easier to kill more people, from a single shooting point, in Denmark than in the US? But I guess shopping malls may be equally crowded in both countries. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:28, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support In principle, once destubbed. The last time anything on this scale happened in Denmark was in 2015 and before that you would have go to the 1985 Copenhagen bombings, clearly a significant event, given it's wide-ranging media coverage. Comparing this to a random US shooting is a stupid comparison. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 13:33, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support in principle, oppose on quality this is in all the mainstream news media, it is unusual because this is a country where gun violence is uncommon. Denmark isn't the US where mass shootings are commonplace and barely newsworthy. That being said, the article needs more information to satisfy the article quality requirements of ITN. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:40, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In the 21st century, no country is an island, entire of itself. That it's news in DK, home of hygge, doesn't make it generally significant, or for that matter even particularly interesting. -- Sca (talk) 15:02, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Also, it was the top news stories on multiple non-Danish news website, such as the BBC (UK edition) for over 12 hours. That's significant international coverage of the event. Joseph2302 (talk) 15:16, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – Shooter charged with murder, despite his history. One of the six wounded in critical. This is possibly more serious. (Changed vote to wait.) – Sca (talk) 15:21, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment In the past decade there have been 529 fatal shootings in Denmark. In the past 2 days there have been 632 fatal shootings in the US. Yet some still think that a mass shooting in Denmark is not newsworthy?? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 15:22, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Three or more may not be the question because the "mass" can also refer to all the victims, not just those who died (cf. mass shooting). But then again, in the end, the question is not up to us but up to reliable sources and they seem to classify it as a mass shooting. Although even if they did not, it would not make it less newsworthy. Regards SoWhy18:25, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I would like to support this item, but almost 24 hours after its nomination, all I see is a bare bones stub article and the typical ITNC nonsense about how this one is notable and American shootings are not because of statistics and other unhelpful remarks. Say what you will about American shootings, our nominated ITNC articles are fleshed out by this point. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:54, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak-to-modest Support on the basis that this is a major event in a local (and European) context. Quantitatively, this is not "major" by global standards, but that this was the "largest mass shooting in the country's history" is noteworthy. Not often news gets to say "most deadly". Template:U's point about "man bites dog" is well-taken too. EvergreenFir(talk)19:26, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support - rare event with significant international coverage. I can't find any mention of a similar death toll this century (or last century to be honest). Nfitz (talk) 20:14, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Article is nowhere near good enough to be posted. Notability is questionable unless there are any new significant developments, which would need to be added to the article Belugsump (talk) 20:41, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oslo shooting was an act of terrorism against a gay pride parade. What the hell is "globally significant" anyway and where do the guidelines stipulate it as a requirement? I keep hearing about it but on one can tell me what it means. --LaserLegs (talk) 22:03, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Exotic demographics aside, that one also had over 20 victims. But this one might still be posted, too. For being Danish, if anything. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:15, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'd say any country that has the deadliest mass shooting since World War II is globally significant. We posted ITNs from other countries, that aren't even the biggest shooting of the month - let alone century. Nfitz (talk) 22:17, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I already told you three people were killed in the one 70 years after the war, so I doubt that will change your mind, but will still tell you again. If we start disqualifying legally excusable killings, that'll drastically lessen the impact of military showdown, protest crackdown and psychotic breakdown blurbs. You want that? InedibleHulk (talk) 22:31, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It would seem rather poor form to be including the death of the shooter in the number of deaths in order to elevate the significance of a mass shooting. Particularly when the death toll isn't final yet. Nfitz (talk) 23:20, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's not about elevating significance, it's about reflecting reality. Death is the great equalizer, bullets don't care and sometimes those who live by the gun die by the gun. February 15, 2015, was one of those times and that article's infobox uses the standard inclusive form of basic human accounting to say so. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:30, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, sorry to be callous and of course it's a tragedy, but the death toll is quite low so doesn't seem significant in the long run. And just because it's a country with few guns, doesn't mean we automatically post. — Amakuru (talk) 22:24, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The article is well-referenced as a whole with no noticable issues except for the first paragraph in the Return to democracy section, which doesn't have a citation (particularly the bit about him being sentenced to 23 years). Overall I would say I support the RD but only on the condition that this is changed. Dunutubble (talk) (Contributions) 16:39, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support - No doubt this article has any issues. But additions are required as per Dunutubble's request.
Comment: The Russian wiki may have some information that could be used to expand the article,, including an image. Article also has a bare url and is still stub tagged. Anarchyte (talk) 13:53, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comments: This wikibio has 300+ words of prose and technically long enough to qualify as an non-stub. I have to AGF all the non-English refs, but footnotes can indeed be found at expected spots. Formatting looks okay -- dates and other attributes in the non-English refs would be good things to add. This seems to be a passable RD nom, but I am hesitant to post this on MainPage because the materials on his career as a scientist or laser research engineer are rather thin. His recent arrest from his deathbed and subsequent demise seem to take up quite a bit of space in this wikibio that the coverage of his life now seems imbalanced. Perhaps another admin can look at this, please. Can more materials on his research on laser be added, please? --PFHLai (talk) 15:30, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the nomination of one of greatest English directors ever. I would have done it later, I'm not done yet updating. Adding myself to the updaters. - Many helped, just the name Khardan is not in the recent history. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:57, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I see the two sources given (one is based on a book already sourced, the Kustow work, so could be better formmated to support that), but just needs better indication that those refs are meant to cover the works. The language used in the opening sentence of that H2 section isn't clear that those cover the works. Easily fixable and that seems to be the only quality issue for posting. --Masem (t) 13:31, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think I understand the first bit. The second, I tried to reword now, but feel free to write yourself what you think would be clearer. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:57, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Looks fine to me, once I saw the general references for works. Posting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tone (talk • contribs) 12:02, 2022 July 6 (UTC)
What can I do next time to attract them? This was the hardest of the year to do, and I was proud of having succeeded, and it was supported 2 days ago. Then what? It's long, so reviewers may be hesitant? - I do hope that it will not happen again that two of these giants die on consecutive days, - it's exhausting, sorry. I'd like credits for all, for the record. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:04, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It seems that participation is lower these days. There are fewer editors posting comments across ITN/C. Not just for RD noms. Time for a summer break? Not sure... --PFHLai (talk) 05:29, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Obviously long enough to qualify (2000+ words), with no formatting issues or concerns regarding the deployment of footnotes (A few more footnotes in the Honours section would be nice, though.), and with no problems identified by Earwig, this wikibio is READY for RD. --PFHLai (talk) 14:04, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support I might have some concerns with "Honours" section (regarding citations) but this is easily fixable and this article is ready to go. MarioJump83 (talk) 14:47, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment There is a CN in the personal life section, as well as some concerns with WP:WEIGHT (with the most of article dedicating to COVID-19 claims), given the controversial topic being involved. This article could be ready to go but I want to see this being resolved first. MarioJump83 (talk) 14:54, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I removed the unsourced sentence, as I couldn't find anything about Zelenko being a Haredi orthodox Jew, although many sources do mention he was an orthodox Jew. Second, I do not believe there are any issues with WP:WEIGHT, most coverage about this person relates to COVID. Do you have any ideas for dealing with this? --VersaceSpace🌃16:10, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've read the policy, actually it is fair because of what had been represented in most reliable coverage about the subject, my mistake. The idea is to keep it mostly what it is, but with some notes below. MarioJump83 (talk) 16:34, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Issues are mostly resolved though I recommend to keep an eye on undue weight or non-neutral viewpoints. I have checked this with Earwig and there is not much issues. Overall though, the article is good enough to qualify for RD. MarioJump83 (talk) 16:34, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
But this transfer of power is the result of an election, just not a free one. Regardless I feel like the election itself would have been the bigger news story, and that got turned down from ITN because it was a sub-national one. (Even if WP:ITN/R guidelines allow for the posting of election results in dependant territories). 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 21:59, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
oppose a non-election with no candidate field is basically like promoting an actual business CEO or homeowners association President (though that has an election...) and hardly news worthy, much less main page newsworthy. PRAXIDICAE🌈22:07, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Calling it anything else than an election - which objectively what happened regardless of the politics around it or the lack of candidates or how it was handled - is an NPOV violation. The issue with the "election" can be included in the article proper (with proper sourcing and attribution). Masem (t) 14:25, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment as nominator. There is precedent for placing the HK CE in ITN, as this was done for the previous CE [[Posted_Hong_Kong_Chief_Executive_election]]. There also seemed to be a degree of consensus in the nomination for the election results, given that an "attention needed" tag was placed on the nomination. [[58]] Carter00000 (talk) 05:10, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support He ran unopposed in the 2022 Hong Kong Chief Executive election (added an altblurb linking to it), but it was a transfer of power nonetheless, and there's precedent for posting about Hong Kong. I ask the oppose !voters to avoid arguments about the election being undemocratic in nature. Most countries that have elections aren't actually democracies, but we still post about their so-called elections. See also: Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Russia, etc. Vanilla Wizard 💙21:00, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That's true, we could instead bold John Lee instead of bolding the election. We could also mention his government or include a mention of him being the only China-approved candidate. I'd still want to include a link to the election article in the blurb as it's relevant to his succession of Carrie Lam. Vanilla Wizard 💙22:03, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, either would be more current. The rest of the blurb, well, my suggestion would be keeping it simple and concise on MainPage. Save the details in the article. Getting into a protracted debate about choice of vocabulary in the blurb may mean that a consensus can't be reached before eligibility runs out. Good luck. --PFHLai (talk) 00:19, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment as nominator. Suggest that we could also bold the office/title as an alternative. This would preclude mentioning of the election, given that it has passed already.
Randomly pinging people because you think they might vote for it is annoying. If I wanted to vote on this, I would have done so already, I don't appreciate being randomly pinged about tbis. Joseph2302 (talk) 06:52, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
ITN doesn't post subnational elections unless something truly unusual's happened, and ITN doesn't ever post post-election inaugurations. There's no reason for this to be an exception on either count. Oppose. —Cryptic06:03, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Regardless of the legitimacy of the "election", this is sub-national. I'm pretty sure, for example, that if Mark Drakeford resigned tomorrow and was replaced by another MS, we wouldn't post it. Black Kite (talk)09:42, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose A token handover (hate to use that word in relation to HK) to a hand picked politician who was not elected is not what we usually do. Not to mention that sub-national leaders don't normally get covered here either, same as we don't feature every time they change the Governor of Gibraltar for example. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk)09:50, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Given the events of Hong Kong in recent years, unfortunately this leadership handover, unlike the Yair Lapid one, is not going to be that consequential. MarioJump83 (talk) 14:43, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Not an election, not a sovereign country, only de jure self-rule but de facto a Chinese government official nominated to a province. Abcmaxx (talk) 14:58, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support, meets criteria for RD, but it could be improved a little bit (and this article got a lot of attention). Personally seeing this news is shocking. MarioJump83 (talk) 08:54, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support, very well known personality with (now) plenty of reliable sources. Sad that so many of those sources only exist as a result of his death and as a result we have an article now but couldn't justify one while he was alive. WaggersTALK11:19, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support May be biased as a main contributor of the article, but he is a popular internet personality (his death was #1 trending on YT) and there are plenty of sources now (plus suggested sources from 2021). Also for the other reasons above. VORTEX3427 (Talk!) 11:33, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support, notable personality. Surprised that the article has only just been created, Technoblade was listed on the Dream SMP article since 2021, and seems as notable on his own as a Minecraft player and youtuber. Very sad. Salpynx (talk) 12:38, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality the article is correctly orange-tagged as needing expansion. Article quality is the only consideration for posting on RD, and this article is too short and non comprehensive. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:59, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Looking at the recent history, I'm only seeing one account adding nonsense, and someone has blocked that. While "stability" should be there, we discount vandalism as a quality issue since that's beyond normal editing control. (Obviously, vandalism needs to be removed before posting). --Masem (t) 13:40, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's my impression that the topic will tend to attract especially sophisticated and motivated vandals. And I wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing turns out to be an attention-seeking hoax. We don't need this aggravation. Andrew🐉(talk) 15:44, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
We have RSes like the BBC reporting on this, and given the video statement from his father, it is very very very unlikely this is a hoax. We should not presume anything like that given the source quality. If it was only coming out of a source like dotesports.com, yes, I would be potentially suspicious as well, but that's not here in this case. --Masem (t) 17:55, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not seeing why this should be treated any differently from anyone else we've put here, just because they have a large online presence shouldn't discourage us from giving them tribute here, nor does it give us the right to speculate if the person is pulling a hoax (which judging by the evidence doesn't seem to be the case). CaptainGalaxy18:01, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality. Subpar sourcing and orange tagged. No opposition to it going onto the main page after this is resolved. Anarchyte (talk) 15:10, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Much of the article is cited to secondary sources, but those sources are only repeating the subject's claims with attribution to him. This is problematic given the subject has admitted to providing false information. Even his name "Alexander" is not cited. GreatCaesarsGhost15:26, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that Technoblade is notable on a higher or any degree is not relevant when it comes to !voting Support or Oppose for RD noms here on ITN/C. Focus on article quality and MainPage readiness, please. --PFHLai (talk) 21:00, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment there's quite a bit of chat about sourcing/WP:SYNTH on the talkpage. We shouldn't post this unless there's consensus that the article is fine for that, otherwise it violates article quality requirement for ITN. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:16, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Re The only talk of synth on the talk page was me clarifying a policy misunderstanding another editor had and that section has been resolved. It appears that sourcing concerns raised on the talk page have been resolved? TheSandDoctorTalk16:37, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
An article does not need a copyedit to go RD, and considering this article has received a massive amount of quality changes only recently I don't think it needs it. Not to mention, despite the entire creation of the article spawning from his death, recentism is not an issue here as there is enough cited information about his career to counterweight information about his death. CaptainGalaxy22:09, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment For those who still oppose based on quality, can you provide some issues the article still has? I'm more than willing to work on the article more if that is what is necessary. The discussions regarding synth and unreliable sources have been resolved already and there are no maintenance tags. Link20XX (talk) 16:36, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support No significant tags and over-the-top attention among the MC community (including me).
Support Not seeing any underlying or obvious quality issues that should discredit this article. With all issues seemingly resolved, I see no problem in posting this now. CaptainGalaxy17:55, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support I do not see a problem with this article being posted now as its issues seem to be resolved. Good work to all those who have edited to address them. --TheSandDoctorTalk18:05, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for my usual reason in these cases (with due deference to any friends or relatives); if they weren't notable enough to have an article while they were alive (and therefore would fail the RD rules), dying doesn't push them over the line. And, er, oh yeah - I don't like to mention this, but he's faked his death before (please let this not be the case this time, if you know what I mean). Black Kite (talk)18:07, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The lack of an article before does not imply notability only related to death. A subject's death, however, may encourage the creation of an article. In this case in specific, there was a "Technoblade" draft already present when the target article was created, it simply lacked enough information to be published. DarkSide830 (talk) 18:38, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The sudden ease of source availability (read: front page stuff) and the widespread coverage that this has received would also presumably incentivize participation and work on improving the article, as happens elsewhere on the 'pedia. TheSandDoctorTalk18:44, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That is also an admittedly bizarre accusation to make (that this is faked) without any proof as Template:U noted further up. That's like an WP:OR version of WP:CRYSTAL, if that's even possible. It isn't one or two RSes that would be being duped right now, but dozens. TheSandDoctorTalk18:41, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment very disturbing to read those curious users who are claiming (using their own original research I assume) that this is a hoax when RS like BBC, CNN, Varsity, Sky News, ABC, Yahoo etc are all reporting this death. Also curious to see some users suggesting we don't post items on the main page in case they attract unwanted attention. This place.... The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:57, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've never heard of this guy before, but I looked through the r/technoblade subreddit yesterday, and a few eagle-eyed fans spotted an obituary with his full name that appeared in a local newspaper before his death was officially announced. While obviously not WP:RS, that's enough to make the chances of this being a hoax 0%. Nohomersryan (talk) 19:00, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The news is being reported in multiple RS across the world. That his article is new isn't relevant. Plus perhaps those surprised we don't know his real name are from a "certain generation" who aren't used to the idea of people on YouTube operating their entire careers under a pseudonym.... The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 19:18, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - People, respectable people, are claiming this might be a hoax? Seriously? Gosh, why even post any death at all on ITN then, if we are going to apply the same logic that we use for sports retirements. Unbelievable. WaltCip-(talk)20:53, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Very clearly legitimate:
Some of Tech's closest friends such as Dream have acknowledged the death on Twitter and the hashtag #technobladeneverdies is currently trending on that platform.
On Reddit, multiple threads have been made about his death, such as on r/MinecraftMemes, r/DreamWasTaken, r/HypixelSkyblock, and many other subreddits.
On the server Hypixel, there is a tribute where players can add their signatures, as stated by the server owner himself.[4]
Besides all of this, the article has solid sources, no obviously glaring problems (as far as I'm concerned), and I can definitely see this on the front page considering how much of a ripple this event has caused over the Internet.
Support I'm shocked this hasn't been posted yet. Sure, article is new, but the guy was part of the most popular Minecraft series on Twitch and he had 10 million subscribers at the time of his death. + #technobladeneverdies and other Technoblade related phrases have been trending on Twitter all day and the BBC, CNN and the NYT all are reporting this. KingOfAllThings(thou shalt chatter!)00:59, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Not much to add, I think it's great how quickly the article has improved from nothing to something, and I'm proud of all the editors who've worked so hard on this. PantheonRadiance (talk) 02:48, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Notable person in my country, I have heard him in the news from TV for quite a while long before his death. I have checked the sourcing and the article is fine. MarioJump83 (talk) 08:48, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - the line "served two terms in the DPR between 1987 and 1997" - needs a cite. Once that's fixed, good to go for RD. I wouldn't support a blurb though. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 10:05, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I'm not sure how to handle this. Maybe treat it like an election, where the government has been changed? But, he wasn't elected. Netanyahu was elected, then they ousted him, then Bennett came along and now Lapid's in power. Cheers! Fakescientist800002:43, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose We essentially already posted this last June. We made Naftali Bennett the target article, but all relevant articles were clear on the wacky terms of this government and who was the alternate prime minister. It's still the 36th session, this is just a tag. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:01, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support New PM along with a dissolution of gov't is pretty news/blurb worthy in my book. Overall state of Lapid's article is pretty good too. I've also replaced the blurb image since its nominated for speedy deletion. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 05:38, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose on quality four citation needed tags, and a few clarification needed tags. Should hopefully be easy to fix, but would be good to fix them before posting. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:28, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Posted. I fixed up the four citation-needed tags that were there, otherwise good to go per above consensus and ITN/R. — Amakuru (talk) 09:25, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Done Grimes2 (talk) 11:44, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
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