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May 31

[edit]
May 31, 2019 (2019-05-31) (Friday)
Armed conflict and attacks
Disasters and accidents
  • 2019 Alberta wildfires
    • In northern Alberta, Canada, an estimated 10,000 people have been evacuated due to fast spreading wildfires. (Global News)
    • Air quality warnings are issued for most of Alberta as a result of the thick smoke moving across the province. Places as far south as Calgary have reached 10+ on the Air Quality Health Index, and rated worse than some of the most polluted cities in the world. (Calgary Herald)

Law and crime

Sports

(Closed) RD: Roky Erickson

[edit]
Stale, unimproved. Stephen 03:13, 7 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Roky Erickson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety, New Musical Express, El País
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
  ‑ Iridescent 07:54, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Claus von Bülow

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Claus von Bülow (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 SchroCat (talk) 09:18, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

May 30

[edit]
May 30, 2019 (2019-05-30) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

African Continental Free Trade Agreement comes into effect

[edit]
Articles: African Continental Free Trade Agreement (talk · history · tag) and African Continental Free Trade Area (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ With the African Continental Free Trade Agreement coming into effect, the African Continental Free Trade Area is now the worlds largest free trade zone in terms of participating countries. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ With the ratification of the African Continental Free Trade Agreement (AfCFTA) by Gambia on April 30, 2019, 22 countries have deposited their instruments of ratification to the African Union (AU), meeting the threshold for the agreement to come into effect.
News source(s): https://www.brookings.edu/research/keys-to-success-for-the-afcfta-negotiations/, https://www.tralac.org/resources/our-resources/6730-continental-free-trade-area-cfta.html
Credits:

Nominator's comments: The African Continental Free Trade Area is now largest domestic market in the world.[1]Besides that this news is believed to have a huge impact in the long run. When it comes to the potential of this agreement, it is comparable with the opening of the european free trade zone, 30 years ago. LennBr (talk) 20:23, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Query Have you a source for "world's largest free trade zone"? The ASEAN–China Free Trade Area has about twice the population of every African country combined, and as I understand it Nigeria—the largest country in Africa in terms of both population and economy—is still refusing to sign up to AFCFTA. ‑ Iridescent 23:11, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Iridescent: My fault - I was quoting something out of context: In terms of numbers of participating countries, the AfCFTA will be the world’s largest free trade area since the formation of the World Trade Organization. I have updated the blurb in that way. LennBr (talk) 23:38, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Brigitte Bierlein named Austrian chancellor

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Brigitte Bierlein (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Austrian president Alexander Van der Bellen names jurist Brigitte Bierlein (pictured) as interim chancellor of Austria, the first woman in this role. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Jurist Brigitte Bierlein (pictured) is named Austria's interim chancellor, the first woman in this role.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Austria names its first female chancellor with the appointment of Brigitte Bierlein (pictured).
Alternative blurb III: ​ Brigitte Bierlein, president of the Constitutional Court, is named interim chancellor of Austria – the first woman to occupy the post.
News source(s): Guardian, CNN, BBC, DW News
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Appointment of interim leaders is usually not ITN worthy but I think in this case an exception should be made since Bierlein is both the first interim chancellor Austria ever had and the first female chancellor, a fact that has received significant coverage. Also, she will be chancellor for a few months, so it's not like she will only be in the role for a few days. Regards SoWhy 07:58, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Weak oppose I'm willing to be swayed by other editors to support as I'm personally ignorant of Austrian politics. My understanding is that, as an interim, her tenure will be brief. I'd be willing to support posting her long-term replacement, though. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 23:25, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted as a reasonable update to the Sebastian Kurz blurb below. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 23:45, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I would strike the "interim" from the post, and maybe replace it by "non-partisan". While it is commonly expected that she will only govern for a few months until the general elections in autumn, she is legally a "full" chancellor just like Kurz was before her, with no more limitations to her powers or her term in office. She's not just an "acting chancellor". Actually, it's not completely inconceivable that if she does a good job, she might be asked to keep the position after the elections as head of a "political" coalition, or start a party of her own (like previosuly non-partisan Monti tried in Italy).--141.100.184.38 (talk) 09:13, 5 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Sources seem to be using "interim", so that's what we use. "Interim"(the person is actually holding the office, but for a short time) is not the same as "acting"(a person in a lower ranked office carrying out the duties of the higher ranked position temporarily). 331dot (talk) 09:17, 5 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Leon Redbone

[edit]
Article: Leon Redbone (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NPR Fox News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: I know, the artist of "Please Don't Talk About Me When I'm Gone". A Tin Pan Alley shaman. CoatCheck (talk) 04:35, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Better source now provided. Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:44, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support thanks for working within policies and guidelines. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:43, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]


Thanks for adding allmusic.com instead. No material difference, of course. I wonder which source might be expected to be more accurate. Not sure why this has not been posted. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:13, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Avoid primary sources, especially if reliable third party sources are available. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:39, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest posting, per the objection being dealt with. Jusdafax (talk) 00:38, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Marked ready. Sca (talk) 13:17, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) 92nd Scripps National Spelling Bee

[edit]
Strong consensus against this. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:16, 2 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 92nd Scripps National Spelling Bee (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At the 92nd Scripps National Spelling Bee, a record eight spellers are declared co-champions. (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Unprecedented ending with 8 contestants crowned co-champions. Seems more notabler based on that alone. Also, highest competition in the "sport". Andise1 (talk) 04:16, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Looks live Davey wouldn't win the spelling bee. – Sca (talk) 12:50, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like Sca wouldn't win the spelling bee either ;) Andise1 (talk)
Come on you guys, don't bee like that. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 20:07, 31 May 2019 (UTC) [reply]
  • Oppose on article quality. The competition section has not been updated with a prose description of the final rounds, and much of the article is poorly written. SounderBruce 06:38, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Both the blurb and the article fail to mention the country in which this took place. Chrisclear (talk) 07:22, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The nominator's claim that this is the "highest competition in the sport" is dubious, given that it relates to only one country. Second, it's highly unlikely that there would be an ITN article about national spelling bees of many other countries, and I don't think a special case should be made for this one particular event. Furthermore, as mentioned in my earlier comment, the article fails to mention the country in which this event took place. Chrisclear (talk) 07:22, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Competitive spelling bees, especially at national level, (and more importantly, that the citizens give a crap about) only happen in the USA. Of course, that’s an easy reason to oppose: only Americans (and spelling bee enthusiasts, I guess? Do they exist?) know or care what is happening here. Kingsif (talk) 07:08, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
What's the buzz among them about this year's event? – Sca (talk) 14:16, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Do they really row all over the world? Well I'll be snookered! – Sca (talk) 13:26, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Scripps National Bee has participants from other countires who qualify through regional tournaments, so no it is not an exclusively American activity. The participants are also more likely to be from underrepresented minority groups (East and Southeast Asians), so it's not "one group within one country". SounderBruce 18:02, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) RD: Thad Cochran

[edit]
Stale, unimproved. Stephen 04:10, 6 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Thad Cochran (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [1]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
 – Muboshgu (talk) 15:31, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
He's not "L" as of this morning. Daniel Case (talk) 01:51, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Are you not aware that WP:BLP applies to the recently deceased? Stephen 01:54, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
(The undead, so to speak.) – Sca (talk) 13:04, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Is Daniel Case, an admin and oversighter &c., trying to tell me he doesn't know the BLP policy? Wow, just wow. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:58, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@The Rambling Man:I am certainly aware that BLP applies to the recently deceased; I was just amused at its usage in that context (it is relevant in the policy sense, yes, but as a descriptor for the article itself, not at that point). Daniel Case (talk) 01:03, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wrong! The Rambling Man (talk) 05:18, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The policy applies, even if the subject of the article has only recently died. So while the article is technically no longer a biography of a living person, it is still covered by the policy ... Daniel Case (talk) 05:51, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Applause! The Rambling Man (talk) 16:08, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) James Marape

[edit]
Article: James Marape (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Papua New Guinea appoints James Marape as its new prime minister after weeks of political upheaval. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ James Marape is appointed to serve as the Prime Minister of Papua New Guinea following the resignation of Peter O'Neill.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Short article but referenced. More can be done. Sherenk1 (talk) 04:25, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

May 29

[edit]
May 29, 2019 (2019-05-29) (Wednesday)
Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Posted) Sinking of Hableány

[edit]
Article: Sinking of Hableány (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A river cruise ship in Budapest capsizes and sinks, killing at least seven South Korean tourists. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A small river cruise boat collides with a larger vessel in Budapest and sinks, leaving seven dead and 21 missing.
Alternative blurb II: ​ A river cruise boat collides with a larger vessel in Budapest killing at least seven South Korean tourists.
Alternative blurb III: ​ The captain of a large river vessel in Budapest is arrested after it collides with a tourist cruise boat, killing at least seven.
Alternative blurb IV: ​ A river cruise boat sinks following a collision in Budapest killing at least seven.
News source(s): New York Times, dpa, AP, BBC, Hungary Today, Reuters, Spiegel (in German)
Credits:

Nominator's comments: With 19 more missing, I'm afraid the death toll will have to be increased. The entry is short and needs expansion, but the story is getting a fair amount of coverage overseas (especially in South Korea, obviously). SounderBruce 04:02, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

PS: Captain of Viking Sigyn arrested. – Sca (talk) 21:09, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Have added. Also now Alt 3. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:43, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. The article is OK as it stands and will no doubt improve as more becomes known. I think I prefer the first alt-blurb but none of the proposals are excellent. Thryduulf (talk) 21:39, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
– Marked ready. Sca (talk) 01:43, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

May 28

[edit]
May 28, 2019 (2019-05-28) (Tuesday)
International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Apolo Nsibambi

[edit]
Article: Apolo Nsibambi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Daily Monitor
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article seems decent enough --- Coffeeandcrumbs 07:22, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Boris Johnson

[edit]
Reclosing as SNOW. --Masem (t) 14:15, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles: Boris Johnson (talk · history · tag) and Brexit (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Judge orders Boris Johnson to go on trial for lying and misleading in Brexit campaign (Post)
News source(s): Independent
Credits:

Both articles need updating
 Count Iblis (talk) 13:30, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm surprised this was slapped down quite so promptly (6 minutes), given that it's a legal first in England and Wales and given the prominence of BoJo in the Tory leadership contest. Perhaps the Brexit Bus wil be driven into court as evidence. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:55, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. I don't mind this being closed if there are a rapid number of opposes, but not on zero. With that in mind, I'm going to Oppose as a) it's not worldwide news and b) Boris Johnson lying isn't exactly news anymore either. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 13:59, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"Oooh, worra bitch." Martinevans123 (talk) 14:02, 29 May 2019 (UTC) [reply]
  • Oppose and the close was an appropriate snow-close since this has zero chance of posting so reopening is just wasting everyone's time. If he becomes PM and is subsequently imprisoned whilst in office, then we'll talk. All that's happened today is that a junior judge has ruled that the case isn't wholly vexatious and consequently is outside her competence and needs to be heard by a higher court; specifically noting in so doing that "the allegations which have been made are unproven accusations and I do not make any finding of fact". There's theoretically a dangerous precedent in private prosecutions of politicians for campaign promises, as it theoretically sets a precedent for those with the biggest pockets to tie political opponents up in litigation, but we're nowhere near that stage yet. ‑ Iridescent 14:03, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Ah yes, "an enormous waste of everyone's time that has zero chance of success." Sounds familiar. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:08, 29 May 2019 (UTC) [reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Post-close Oppose. I agree entirely with the opposes, except the last. It’s trite and idiotic to call it a waste of time: a former Foreign Secretary has been ordered to court for lying. This is unusual in most democracies and it’s a decent question to raise, even if you disagree with the politics behind it. - SchroCat (talk) 21:43, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It's not unusual it all. In fact, the very existence of such a system is proof that the democracy is working. See also John Edwards, Jesse Jackson Jr, Scooter Libby, etc.--WaltCip (talk) 22:39, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This time I can't agree with my friend Walt. The notion that a prominent UK politician would actually lie to the public raises serious questions about the stability of British democracy. Such a thing would never happen in the U.S. – Sca (talk) 15:13, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Surely, the reason why such a story, from UK or US, could never be posted on the Main page is Presumption of innocence? Martinevans123 (talk) 15:25, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Correct, the interaction of this and WP:BLP is why we almost never post stories about (alleged) crimes before the verdict, regardless of politics. Thryduulf (talk) 21:31, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Procedural Question: Is this 'the appropriate discussion page', and, if not, where is 'the appropriate discussion page'? I'm referring to the above The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. I'm NOT interested in continuing the above discussion about the pros and cons of not posting, but I'm a bit concerned that the continuation of that discussion here may have made a mockery of the above closure, and perhaps sets an undesirable precedent (though maybe it's no new precedent, and it's just my failure to notice previous instances of this). On the other hand I'm unclear where 'the appropriate discussion page' is, if it isn't here. So if it's not too much hassle, I'd appreciate some clarification on the subject (either here, or wherever else is deemed more appropriate). Tlhslobus (talk) 23:43, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Tlhslobus: For general discussion unrelated to specific nominations the appropriate formum is Wikipedia talk:In the news. Discussion of specific nominations should be with the nomination. This discussion shouldn't really have continued after being closed, but it isn't unrelated to this specific nomination but does have some more general aspects (particularly the later points) so it doesn't fall cleanly into being in the right or wrong place. Thryduulf (talk) 00:26, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Record-breaking May tornado outbreak

[edit]
No consensus to post. Stephen 01:57, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Tornado outbreak of May 2019 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ More than 260 tornadoes in the United States leave 20 people dead and thousands injured. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A series of tornado outbreaks in the U.S. leaves 20 people dead and thousands injured.
Alternative blurb II: ​ A series of severe storms in the U.S. results in extensive flooding and more than 260 tornadoes.
Alternative blurb III: ​ A record-breaking series of tornado outbreaks in the U.S. leaves 20 people dead and thousands injured.
News source(s): [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Significant number of tornadoes every single day for more than ten days (so far), including hits on major cities -- more than 171 so far by sources, although the article is still catching up. I will be adding a section on the flooding later today. There have been so many tornadoes that I can't specify "central" United States, because tornadoes have been occurring from California/New Mexico to Maryland/New York. (There have even been a couple of minor tornadoes in Canada, but by impact this focus should definitely be on the United States.) Most, however, have occurred between Oklahoma and Ohio. I hope that we do not have to consider this for "ongoing", since there is possibly an end in sight. Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 16:57, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I did not create the article, and there are too many significant updaters to single anyone out. I hope I got the creator right -- please correct me if I erred. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 17:00, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Update We are now into nation-wide record territory, reflected in a new alt-blurb and sources. The 12th day of this activity has set a U.S. record for successive days with more than 8 tornadoes a day. (The previous record was set in 1980.) The total number of confirmed tornadoes has exceeded 220. As noted below, the NYT reports more than 500 preliminary tornado reports in a month -- which, even for the U.S., is (quoting) "approaching uncharted territory". Several states have already surpassed their typical annual total number of tornadoes. Updated death toll is well into double figures for the period (thanks largely to improved forecasting and access to shelters). For context, the 2011 Super Outbreak, the largest ever of its kind, recorded a total of 360 confirmed tornadoes in three days -- but its deaths were limited to just six states, the vast majority of them in Alabama. Only three previous U.S. tornado outbreaks have ever been recorded with 100+ tornadoes. Leaving this now to update the article and start working on the flooding section. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 04:34, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • Update I updated all three blurbs with current information. - Tenebris
        • Update I updated all blurbs with current information. For those who are not familiar with tornado statistics, this is at least the second largest tornado outbreak in the world since record-keeping began; and is definitely the most widespread outbreak on record. (Previous 100+ outbreaks were in 1974 (148 total tornadoes, 66 strong, 30 violent), 2007 (129 tornadoes, 20 strong, 1 violent), 2011 (260 total tornadoes, 71 strong, 15 violent), and the UK outbreak of 1981 (104 total tornadoes, one strong, none violent.) Investigation is ongoing, but at this time, the current outbreak is at 362 tornadoes, with 48 strong tornadoes and 2 violent tornadoes. I also changed the linked picture to better reflect the outbreak as a whole. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 10:50, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Nine dead is not quite at the threshold expected to post regional weather-related catastrophes on ITN.--WaltCip (talk) 17:41, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose old and unremarkable news. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:05, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The "outbreak" started about 11 days ago. If you want an "ongoing" nomination, say so. But to blurb this completely unremarkable "outbreak' which "broke out" 11 days ago would somewhat defeat the point. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:11, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
By that reasoning, reporting the results of most season-cumulative sporting events would be "old news". - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 02:58, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
What are you talking about?! Season-long sports events aren't decided until usually the very end or at least very very close to the very end of the season. Good try though. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:14, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And neither was the full severity of this situation fully defined until close to its ending. In the way that I nominated it, it was opposed as "old", even though it is still making headlines around the world (including in the UK). Yet were I to nominate it as "ongoing", the nomination would be opposed on the basis that it is nearly over. Good try, though. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 09:32, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Well since you're clearly in a tiny minority here, I think you'll learn a lot from this misguided nomination. Cheers! The Rambling Man (talk) 14:20, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Misguided? Tiny minority? Hurricane Earl (2010) had fewer than 10 deaths and affected roughly a million people, with $45 million damage, yet it was posted in ITN. Other similar weather-related examples which were posted in ITN are easy enough to find. This series of storms is exponentially higher in all respects than Hurricane Earl (death toll continues to rise, as are the flood-related evacuations), but is opposed. I can't help but think that most people are not taking the new news search algorithms (which adapt the kind of news you see to the kind of news you are interested in -- ie. if you are not interested, you will never see it at the top of your feed) fully into account. In that respect, I agree, I am an increasingly tiny minority -- especially since I don't have a personal cheering section to create an echo chamber. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 17:08, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'll dig out that violin! The Rambling Man (talk) 20:27, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Torandos are common this time of year, and its not all coming from the same storm/weather system. That they all fell within a certain week is unfortunate, but this is a fact of life living in the midwest/tornado alley in the US. I would be more "forgiving" , I guess, if there was significantly more singular damage and death from the same common storm system than from one. --Masem (t) 19:02, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support top of my news feed today says "11 straight days of tornadoes have US approaching 'uncharted territory'". We post typhoons during typhoon season and floods during flood season -- no reason to oppose tornadoes during tornado season unless you're also going to oppose the next time routine seasonal floods kill a handful of people in an under developed country with poor infrastructure and emergence response. --LaserLegs (talk) 20:03, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yeah, I seem to recall the front page posting some sort of UK related weather posting as well. Sir Joseph (talk) 20:05, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • We don't post all floods. Thousands of people in India and China die each year from flooding and typhoons - but their deaths collectively do not come from a single storm but the overall rainy season. So we aren't posting those "routine" deaths. But when a single system makes that much of a death toll, that becomes notable on its own. --Masem (t) 04:39, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose Tornado outbreaks this time of year are not uncommon. So far we have (thankfully) not had a really serious mass casualty event. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:41, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose making hay of a coincidence (more or less per Masem). GreatCaesarsGhost 00:55, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose – Essentially a car crash in slow motion. Collectively, this prolonged outbreak is impressive but aside from May 27, no one day is particularly impressive. It's not nationally record-breaking as far as I can tell, and claims of such are largely sensationalism. The event is certainly unusually prolonged with consistently damaging events. However, it pales in comparison to the 2011 Super Outbreak (catastrophic singular event) and the May 2003 tornado outbreak sequence (closest comparable prolonged event). As of this comment, 218 tornadoes have been confirmed nationwide from May 17–28, the number of reports is far less useful/notable as those include duplicates of long-track tornadoes and events that didn't turn out to be tornadoes. This falls way short of the 10-day tornado record of roughly 500 confirmed tornadoes set in April 2011. The flood aspect has been building since February and will continue to expand through June. The floods can't be attributed to this event alone. My comments may need adjustments pending further details of yesterday's tornadoes in Kansas and Missouri, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 07:35, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
True that the total number of tornadoes falls short of the all-time record (thankfully). However, this is only the fourth ever tornado event with these kinds of numbers since records were kept. Also, unlike the record-breaker, the other aspects of these storms have additionally caused significant damage, injury, and some loss of life. In that respect, this event is in a class by itself. Again, true that the flooding had begun prior to these storms, but that flooding was largely limited to spring riverine flooding and had been dropping when this cycle hit. The severe flash flooding is, by its nature, tightly associated with specific storm systems. To put the amount of rainfall into context, May records are being broken by as much as 50%; and multiple all-time monthly records are at risk. Finally, every single county in the state of Oklahoma is currently in a state of emergency, and has been since May 24. Similar far-reaching weather-related states of emergency are only seen for the strongest hurricanes. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 09:32, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Two hundred million people are affected by the storms. Roughly 100 million people have been under the tornado alerts at one time. (NYC last night (the tornado hit New Jersey); Chicago at least three times, and you must have seen the feeds about the kilometre-wide tornado that hit near Kansas City last night.) Even without taking into account the flash flooding, the impact is not limited to those who were hit -- Kansas City Airport had to close for hours to pick up the debris from a tornado which never came closer than 35 miles. How many impacted people are required to be significant? - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 16:54, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I was one of those 100MM. Went down to the basement for awhile when the sirens went off, came back up to find a few twigs off the trees. Make your case, then accept others opinion - once you start dropping "Two hundred million people are affected" you lose credibility. GreatCaesarsGhost 18:14, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As to credibility: "Severe weather threatened more than 100 million Americans from Texas to New Jersey, the National Weather Service said.". https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/05/28/dayton-ohio-tornado-large-and-dangerous/1255956001/ . I am grateful that you and yours were unharmed and your home stayed undamaged. Many people have not been so fortunate. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 18:44, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think you understand tornadoes. Heaviside glow (talk) 19:21, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If you like. I could cite my professional credentials and personal experience, but then it would just turn into a pissing contest. So think of me what you will, and I will continue to hope that all those posting here from the affected regions have been spared personal injury and property damage. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 20:06, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Not remotely a significant weather event. Heaviside glow (talk) 19:21, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support this is historic and the death toll is pretty high, so TRM can get his violin and start playing. Sir Joseph (talk) 22:31, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    No, it's still trivial in the big scheme of "BIG AMERICAN WEATHER EVENTS". The Rambling Man (talk) 20:14, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    That's what I said, it's still not trivial, 250 tornadoes across much of the US causing almost 20 deaths and millions in damages that is newsworthy. I know it's not in Europe so you won't allow it because it doesn't put the US in a negative light, but sometimes there is news in the US that is notable and newsworthy. Sir Joseph (talk) 00:39, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, even from the US, this is neither. Thanks! The Rambling Man (talk) 20:01, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The death toll (and especially the injury toll) has gone up noticeably since this was originally nominated (we've posted weather events with less deaths and injuries, so the loss of life is clearly significant), and the weather event itself is remarkable from a historical and meteorological perspective (as this was a record-breaking outbreak). I don't think "tornadoes are common this time of year" is a convincing reason to !vote oppose here; had a tropical cyclone in September caused as many deaths and injuries, I doubt "it's that time of year" would be a good reason to oppose such a blurb. As for the article's quality, it appears to be in a perfectly good shape for an ITN blurb. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 09:09, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose nobody outside of the US cares or even knows there's tornadoes right now, without looking for it, so it's not ITN for most, and if the 'outbreak' were even a bit significant international US-centric news would have put it in the headlines. But it's not. Kingsif (talk) 22:55, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Actually, it is now at least the second largest outbreak ever recorded, and possibly the highest. (Previous outbreaks of 100+ tornadoes were in 1974, 2007, and 2011 -- see updates for details.) Interesting that anyone would consider that trivial ... although, true (thankfully), death tolls have been going down (thanks to better codes/shelter/education/forecasting -- which, ironically, is why half of the deaths in this event are due to connected flash flooding, not usually the case in tornado outbreaks). As to being in headlines outside the U.S., check out the Guardian and Times, Sydney Morning Herald, and the Times of India. (I listed only English-language newspapers, but several other major European newspapers also headline this outbreak.) Also bear in mind that your feed may vary because news algorithms show you only what you search for, unless you constantly clear cookies/caches/preferences. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 10:34, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose most of the storm systems have already or are beginning to dissipate; in addition, media outlets are already starting to move away from this story in favor of more recent ones about Trump’s rants and the NBA finals. 184.216.174.71 (talk) 11:57, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Changing my oppose to support based on the updated death toll and statistics.--WaltCip (talk) 14:26, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Sir Joseph. Lepricavark (talk) 01:31, 2 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Kawasaki stabbings

[edit]
No consensus to post. Stephen 01:54, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Kawasaki stabbings (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least two people are dead and 18 injured after been attacked by a knife-wielding man in a Japanese city, south of Tokyo. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ At least two people were killed and 18 injured after a knife attack in the Japanese city of Kawasaki, south of Tokyo.
Alternative blurb II: ​ A knife-wielding man attacked a group of schoolchildren waiting for a bus in a Japanese city near Tokyo.
Alternative blurb III: ​ A knife attack by a man on a group of schoolchildren in Kawasaki, Japan, leaves two dead and 17 injured.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Rare incident. Article is in process of being updated. Sherenk1 (talk) 03:47, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt 3 sans "by a man." -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:57, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Yes, it's unusual for Japan, but certainly not unprecedented. If the new wp:minimumdeaths is "it's been a little while since it's happened HERE" then we'll be posting these things left and right, for every country other than the U.S. The usual barrier to entry is quality of the article, but this one is roughly 300 words. I fail to see how this benefits our readers. GreatCaesarsGhost 00:51, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Per GreatCaesarsGhost (and others). Unfortunately, as it stands, these types of events are common, so I don't think a typical person reading the news would be very concerned about this, even though it happened in an unusual place. Pie3141527182 (talk) 11:29, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Shocking in that it involved children, but otherwise a parochial event without broader significance. Article at 300 words doesn't merit Main Page promotion. Sca (talk) 12:50, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Partly per GreatCaesarsGhost (and others), but also (per WP:IAR and WP:5P5 if necessary), because I think this kind of posting can harm our reputation, and perhaps do worse kinds of harm as well, thru being seen (rightly or wrongly) to be unnecessarily giving murderous lunatics more of the rewards of the oxygen of publicity than seems strictly necessary. ITN is not here to Right Great Wrongs, but neither should it be here to help cause Great Wrongs, nor even to unnecessarily risk being perhaps mistakenly seen to do so. Of course we can't always refrain from posting such stories, but that should be as rare as possible, and 1 or 2 deaths is simply not rare enough. And of course other media also give that oxygen of publicity too, but that is no reason for us to risk being seen to do so, all the more so when our often delayed posting, and our headlines often lasting for several days, means that our front page can often continue to give international publicity to a story long after most other media have lost interest in it. Tlhslobus (talk) 00:25, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly where do we draw the line with this sort of righteous indignation though? As much as we'd all like to bury our heads in the sand, at some point a mass casualty event will become large enough that it will be a disservice to ignore it.--WaltCip (talk) 14:54, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I wouldn't oppose on quality as the article is in a decent shape, and I certainly see the argument that this is exceptionally shocking for multiple reasons (Japan being a country with a low murder rate, the fact that children were involved, etc), but have we posted similar stories in the past? This is a story where, thankfully, only two were killed. The shortcut to MINIMUMDEATHS was rightfully deleted, but it is still true that ITN tends not to post blurbs of killing sprees with low death counts. I'll gladly support posting if there's any precedent for a story like this, I'm just not sure that there is. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 07:27, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

May 27

[edit]
May 27, 2019 (2019-05-27) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
  • French police arrest four people in connection with last Friday's bombing in Lyon's historic city center that injured 13 people. Anti-terrorist prosecutors are leading the investigation. District mayor Denis Broliquier said the bomb was a relatively weak explosive that was too small to kill. No one has claimed responsibility for the attack. (BBC News)
  • Over Sunday and Monday, 55 people die of asphyxiation in various prisons across the Brazilian city of Manaus. (BBC News)

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

RD: Bill Buckner

[edit]
Article: Bill Buckner (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ESPN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Still needs a good deal more sourcing to be postable. Masem (t) 19:12, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

How did this possibly get past our crack crew of editors? Daniel Case (talk) 16:38, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Sebastian Kurz

[edit]
Articles: Sebastian Kurz (talk · history · tag) and Kurz government (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Austrian Chancellor Sebastian Kurz and his government were dismissed through a parliamentary motion of no confidence. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Chancellor of Austria Sebastian Kurz and his government are dismissed after losing motion of no confidence following the Ibiza affair.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Austrian Chancellor Sebastian Kurz is dismissed in a parliamentary no-confidence vote, paving the way for new elections.
Alternative blurb III: ​ Brigitte Bierlein, president of the Constitutional Court, is named interim chancellor of Austria, becoming the first woman to occupy the post.
News source(s): The New York Times, Bloomberg, AP, BBC, Guardian, DW News, dpa, Spiegel (in German), AFP
Credits:

 Colonestarrice (talk) 14:44, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Ibiza affair did not necessarily mean the end of the whole cabinet. And it is the first time in Austria a parliamentary motion of no confidence was successful and the head of government along with their cabinet were removed. And if it wasn't noteworthy, the media wouldn't report about it so excessively. Colonestarrice (talk) 18:29, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Smurray notes at the top that this no-confidence vote will have a more immediate effect than the breakup of the coalition with the Strache's FPÖ. – Sca (talk) 20:36, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not really, as I mentioned before the caretaker or interim government had limited powers. "With the swearing-in of an interim government, there is the possibility of conducting the affairs of state calmly and in an orderly way until election day," said Kurz.[8] "President Van der Bellen told a press conference on Tuesday, emphasising that the caretaker administration would be expected not to implement major new legislation or government spending."[9] They just finished off the lame duck before the elections. --Pudeo (talk) 20:49, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oh. Yeah, I see from Spiegel that the new elections still are scheduled for September. Sca (talk) 22:09, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
On May 28 Vice Chancellor Hartwig Löger was sworn in as acting chancellor. – Sca (talk)

(Posted) 2019 European Parliament election

[edit]
Proposed image
Articles: 2019 European Parliament election (talk · history · tag) and European People's Party group (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The results of the 2019 European Parliament election are announced, with the European People's Party group, led by Manfred Weber (pictured), taking the most seats. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In the European Parliament election, the European People's Party group, led by Manfred Weber (pictured), wins the most seats.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In the European Parliament election, the European People's Party group lose seats but remain the largest party.
Alternative blurb III: ​ In the European Parliament election, the centre-right and centre-left lose seats, with liberals, the far-right and greens and regionalists making the largest gains.
Alternative blurb IV: ​ The results of the 2019 European Parliament election are announced: EVP X%/Seats(+-), S&D X%/Seats(+-) , ALDE X%/Seats(+-), Green/EFA X%/Seats(+-), ECR X%/Seats(+-), EFDD X%/Seats(+-), GUE/NGL X%/Seats(+-), Non-inscrits X%/Seats(+-), Others X%/Seats(+-).
Credits:

Article updated
One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Now that results are out, let's look at this again Kingsif (talk) 01:50, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose for now. Article needs expanded discussion of the results. Also the proposed blurb would be described in the news business as "burying the lead." The real story here is that parties representing both the hard left and right made substantial gains in the election at the expense of the more traditionally centrist parties. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:47, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • I added a alternative blurb. We usually only announce the winner of the most seats. The rest is best left for the article to handle. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 03:04, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • This is not really accurate. Basically all groups that weren't the socialists or the conservatives made gains (although the far-left group, the NGL, also lost seats), with the biggest gains being the traditionally very centrist ALDE! Smurrayinchester 07:31, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Opinion: It think it is out of question, that this topic needs to be news on the main page. The article isnt ready yet, as it seems. However, when it is, I suggest a blurb, that shows the results of the fractions and behind that in brackets the difference of seats they lost or gained. LennBr (talk) 07:52, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The blurb is going to be very difficult here - EU parliament group leader is not really the same thing as a party leader, and the EPP (and all other party groups) are a very long way from any kind of majority (the EU Parliament isn't really a majoritarian system anyway - the EU "government" is primarily made up of the heads of government of member states and the commissioners they appoint). I'd suggest deleting "led by Manfred Weber" - we* can have a separate blurb when either Weber or his S&D rival Timmermans (or someone else entirely!) gets elected President of the European Commission when the EU parliament convenes in July. I've added a couple of alt-blurbs that hopefully better reflect how EU politics works. Smurrayinchester 07:52, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alternative blurb III once the preliminary results for all countries are in and documented in the article. This is the most decent summary that can be made. Replace the photo with one of the European Parliament chamber or a similar neutral image. A full listing of numbers does not make for a good blurb. --Gerrit CUTEDH 08:57, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt III per Gerrit. It's the most concise and neutral way to summarize the results. But of course we need to wait until all preliminary results are in, the article currently has no data for France and Poland. Regards SoWhy 09:17, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt III - and pending updates of latest results.BabbaQ (talk) 09:28, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Alt3 – when content is ready. – Sca (talk) 12:44, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Alt3 – a difficult one to properly describe because these are unlike national elections where a party could win a plurality or a majority and form a government. This one is the best of the choice available though. This is Paul (talk) 13:28, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • But there is a kind of equivalent to forming a government, in that Manfred Weber has at least arguably been 'elected' as the next President of the European Commission. Tlhslobus (talk) 17:46, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

May 26

[edit]
May 26, 2019 (2019-05-26) (Sunday)
Armed conflict and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

Sports

2019 IIHF World Championship

[edit]
Article: 2019 IIHF World Championship (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ ​In ice hockey, the IIHF World Championship concludes with Finland defeating Canada in the final. (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post (Associated Press), Reuters
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

 --Pudeo (talk) 21:07, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose for now Although it is notable (and there were other IIHF World Championships that were posted to ITN), the article is currently lacking any summary compared to the posted ones. I will probably start making a summary if I can find some sources about it. INeedSupport :3 02:24, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I think if both are target articles (the final should be included in the nom), then they both need prose updates; less in the main page for each match than those match pages will get. Kingsif (talk) 07:01, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Bart Starr

[edit]
Article: Bart Starr (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ESPN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: About 20% of main prose need sourcing Masem (t) 17:55, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Former Thai PM Prem Tinsulanonda dies

[edit]
Article: Prem Tinsulanonda (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Former Thai Prime Minister Prem Tinsulanonda dies (Post)
News source(s): [10] [11]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Banedon (talk) 12:31, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

WP:SOFIXIT please. 70.171.32.188 (talk) 13:55, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nope, not interested in the slightest. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:33, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose article needs a lot of working, sourcing and clean up. --LLcentury (talk) 15:23, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Even if it's improved, oppose blurb until someone demonstrates a reason we should have a blurb. Not every former head of state gets a blurb. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:42, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Definitely worthy of a blurb, he was leader of the 20th largest country in the world for over 8 transformative years in Thai history and served as prince regent of Thailand in 2016. It would be a travesty if this man did not get at least RD, I have little experience in fixing citations so I'm going to need my fellow Wikipedians to step up to the plate and help make the changes needed to make this RD and/or blurb worthy. 1779Days (talk) 04:29, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support for RD at least, not opposed to blurb. --Varavour (talk) 11:36, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • What do you mean by Strong support for RD at least? Per ITNR, he will get his RD if article quality is brought up to scratch. So are you saying the article quality is now good enough, or that we should post RD regardless of quality (per WP:IAR or similar), or are you just exhorting others to improve the article, or do you have some other meaning entirely? Tlhslobus (talk) 19:27, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Article currently lacking sufficient citations.—Bagumba (talk) 11:10, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support it may not be a perfect article, but it is C-Class, long and well-detailed, and this is a level 5 Vital Article. If it were a terrible article, I'd oppose, but it's a decent if not great article for someone who was, as mentioned earlier, leader of a very large country for a very long time and held tremendous power for decades. WP:IAR here. 1779Days (talk) 07:26, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Resignation of Peter O'Neill

[edit]
Article: Peter O'Neill (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Papua New Guinea's Prime Minister Peter O'Neill has resigned following a series of high-level defections from his government to the opposition. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Not sure if INTR. Article is not great could use some edits. Sherenk1 (talk) 07:20, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

May 25

[edit]
May 25, 2019 (2019-05-25) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Sports

Palme d'Or

[edit]
Article: Parasite (2019 film) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Parasite wins the Palme d'Or. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ South Korean film Parasite wins the Palme d'Or at the 2019 Cannes Film Festival
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

 The Rambling Man (talk) 22:16, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

May 24

[edit]
May 24, 2019 (2019-05-24) (Friday)
Armed conflict and attacks
Disasters and accidents
Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted to RD) RD: Murray Gell-Mann

[edit]
Article: Murray Gell-Mann (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  American physicist Murray Gell-Mann, who conceived the quark and received the Nobel Prize in Physics, dies at the age of 89. (Post)
News source(s): Caltech
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Count Iblis (talk) 05:31, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If you have specific lines that should be sourced, please give details here: Talk:Murray Gell-Mann#ITN proposal cleanup--MaoGo (talk) 20:15, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Portuguesa prison uprising

[edit]
Article: Acarigua prison riot (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A prison uprising in Acarigua, Venezuela leaves at least 29 prisoners dead. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A prison riot in Acarigua, Venezuela leaves at least 29 prisoners dead, and 19 guards injured.
News source(s): Time
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Might not get through—not as big as last year's prison riot—but still hits death toll (29 confirmed in Spanish sources) and an unexpected event, all things considered. Kingsif (talk) 21:37, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose "reported that the uprising in fact began on May 14" strange grammar. "with fighting breaking out when they refused to let police enter the prison in fear of being robbed." prisoners were afraid of being robbed? "Prisons in Venezuela are largely overpopulated" this may or may not be true, but unless this specific prison was overcrowded, it's irrelevant. Far too much of the content is attributed to Humberto Prado of the Venezuelan Prison Observatory -- which is an activist group that called it a "massacre" .. needs official sources for NPOV. If you can write an article that's got official sources or better yet eyewitness accounts from the WP:RS then fine, otherwise I'll pass. --LaserLegs (talk) 22:56, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@LaserLegs: Suggest re-reading now. Initial effort was to get some content on there, more sources now. RS, local, official, BBC, etc. Looks to be more a dispute over visitors and maybe some overcrowding. And we know what you think of Venezuela, but some would argue NGOs are more reliable over there than the official story; everything in the article now, though, is attributed and treated fairly. Kingsif (talk) 23:07, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I'll take a look in the AM if this isn't speedy posted to the MP by then. What some people call NGOs, others call activists in the employ of hard right Christofascists determined to punish the Venezuelan people for believing in economic equality for all --LaserLegs (talk) 23:18, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Re-affirm my oppose. I went looking for WP:RS to see if the title should be "uprising" or "riot" and didn't see this in headlines anywhere, either on the aggregators or on major pub (even hard right sites like Fox Noise or the WSJ) -- this item simply isn't "in the news" --LaserLegs (talk) 23:40, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
the BBC] not good enough for you? A lot of the world is sleeping and RS will wait until it has a solid story, we all accept news coming out of Venezuela takes time. Kingsif (talk) 23:56, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The BBC putting a story on their website isn't the same as that story being in the news. You are capable of noticing the difference right? Between a story being featured on top tier aggregators like Google or Bing, or being a lead story on print or broadcast, or being featured on the main page of a major media outlet -- and printing some news copy in the hopes of being picked up by a search engine? The obvious difference between those things isn't completely lost on you, is it? --LaserLegs (talk) 15:58, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not lost on me, I’ll assume the condescension I read isn’t intentional because I respect you, Laser: I was responding to the assertion there weren’t RS for terminology, no comment on the level of feature, simply noting there are definitely RS to review (and now more articles now it’s got some clarity). Kingsif (talk) 11:31, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I have left more RSs in the Talk page. --MaoGo (talk) 19:01, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • I wouldn't say so; the place name is identified as "Acarigua, Venezuela" as a unit. It would only require the comma after the country name if there absolutely should be an "in" after the comma between city and country names (so if the sentence needed to say "...Acarigua, in Venezuela,..." to be structurally sound). This works fine without. Kingsif (talk) 02:45, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Needs a comma after Venezuela. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:21, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2019 Surat fire

[edit]
Article: 2019 Surat fire (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Twenty children die in a fire accident in Surat, India. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Twenty people die in a fire accident in Surat, India.
Alternative blurb II: ​ A fire at a coaching centre in Surat, India, kills 22 students.
Alternative blurb III: ​ An accidental fire at a coaching centre in Surat, India, kills 22 students.
News source(s): The Times of India, BBC News
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Deaths of 20 children in fire accident is saddening and unusual. The incident is covered around the world. Nizil (talk) 18:07, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment nolo on this disaster stub, but strong oppose blurbs that highlight child deaths as being somehow more tragic than anyone elses. All death is a tragedy. --LaserLegs (talk) 22:57, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • However, if only children have died, there's something to be said for including that in the blurb. If it's 20 children and 20 adults, go with "40 people", otherwise it should be fine. Kingsif (talk) 23:08, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nope. If children are the target of some attack like Boko Haram or that Saudi bus bombing then maybe, but a random tragedy, the victims age is trivia, just like their gender, height, whatever else. --LaserLegs (talk) 23:16, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Kingsif: and @LaserLegs:, I have struck down the blurb as I found that the most students died in the accident were aged between 17 and 22. So children would be inappropriate term. You may change it to students if seem appropriate. Regards,-Nizil (talk) 07:34, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Students =/= children, I wonder where the reporting came from. Kingsif (talk) 07:40, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'd say be careful with 'students', because it suggests that the fire was in a school. If it was in a school, great, if not, maybe stick with 'people'. Kingsif (talk) 19:49, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It was at a school. Students is more descriptive. All the coverage and the government reaction is focused on private schools, colleges, and other quasi-educational institutions. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 20:23, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The articles I've read call the building a commercial one that happened to have schooling facilities on the floors where the fire occurred. As such, calling out that the victims were only children and/or students is fine in this case. --Masem (t) 20:32, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment is a "fire accident" the same as an "accidental fire"? Only where I'm from, I've never heard of a "fire accident". Also, RS have now put the death toll at 22, so the article and blurb are out of date. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:28, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
My people have a long history of intentionally setting fires with good intentions, then getting drunk (sometimes that is the intention). A lot can go wrong. When it's the mere scalding of orphans or browning of carpets, it's a fire accident. When it sets the forest/house/arcade on fire, that new fire is an accidental fire. In this case, it's the latter. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:19, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
What I'm saying is that I've never heard of a "fire accident", but an "accidental fire", yes. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:22, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Understood. I'm just trying (maybe failing) to be the first to tell you of the former. Accidents resulting from fire, as opposed to fires resulting from accidents. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:13, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
After reading this, I have proposed alt3 and struck alt. Thanks.-Nizil (talk) 08:36, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Theresa May

[edit]
It's posted, and there is clear consensus that it's time to close and move on --LaserLegs (talk) 23:27, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles: Theresa May (talk · history · tag) and 2019 European Parliament election in the United Kingdom (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ British Prime minister Theresa May announces her intention to resign from office. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ British Prime minister Theresa May announces her intention to resign so that a new leader can deliver Brexit
Alternative blurb II: ​ British Prime minister Theresa May, under pressure over her handling of Brexit, announces her intention to resign
Alternative blurb III: ​ Facing backlash over the handling of Brexit, British Prime minister Theresa May announces her intent to resign.
Alternative blurb IV: ​ British Prime minister Theresa May, facing backlash over the handling of Brexit, announces her intent to resign.
News source(s): BBC News The Guardian Le Monde Reuters Spiegel Online Sydney Morning Herald Moscow Times
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Local news at the moment, but will probably ramp up to international news as the day progresses. Not expecting a rush of support but if you don't ask you don't get. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 09:28, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait She's stepping down as Tory leader on the 7th of June, which will only then start a new leadership contest. Worth posting, but not until something actually happens. --IrnBruFan7 (talk) 09:42, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Since the party in control is not changing, I might oppose this, but given the intertwining of her PM-ship with Brexit, I think I would support. I could see posting it now, but no problem waiting, either. 331dot (talk) 09:44, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - yes, 7th June is the party leader resignation date, but it won't be in the news then (she will likely stay on as prime minister until the new party leader is elected). The best times for this to be on ITN is both now and when the new party leader takes office (which will be ITN/R as a new prime minister). Carcharoth (talk) 09:47, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Carcharoth New PMs are not ITNR unless as the result of a general election,("Changes to the head of government are discussed on their own merits."); this is simply the party changing its leader. 331dot (talk) 09:56, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Technically the new PM won't be ITNR (assuming there is one, which just may be problematic if by then s/he will clearly be unable to command a Commons majority due to the possible public departure by then of enough pro-Remain Tories to try to make it harder to bring about the no-deal Brexit that any Tory will probably have to promise to be prepared to do in order to get elected by party members). However if there is a new PM it is almost inconceivable that they would not be posted despite not being technically ITNR. Tlhslobus (talk) 01:15, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I would support now as another step in the Brexit debacle if the blurb and target article were updated accordingly. She'll remain PM until the sitting head of state appoints a new one, after the leadership election. --LaserLegs (talk) 10:36, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support ITNR seems to deal with normal successions. The UK Prime Minister resigning in defeat over what is being called mismanagement of Brexit seems like a bigger deal than that. --valereee (talk) 11:15, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: (edit conflict) I know politicians are prone to U-turns but saying "I will resign on this date because I have failed to do X" is pretty concrete. Unconcerned about being followed up by another Brexit story, ITN is about the news and Brexit seems to be half of the news these days (although international coverage will only focus on the key details). SITH (talk) 11:50, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - tried to do an altblurb that mentions Brexit, but it is really difficult. She has clearly resigned over Brexit, but how can that be phrased neutrally? Carcharoth (talk) 11:49, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure we need to mention the reason in the blurb, that's what the news stories and article are for. 331dot (talk) 11:51, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
There is precedent:

The Ibiza affair, a political scandal, causes the collapse of the Austrian government and triggers a snap election.

If you want to focus on her government, the target article would be Second May ministry. Carcharoth (talk) 11:57, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
In that case, the focus of the blurb was the scandal itself, which is easier to word neutrally. This is a blurb about Theresa May, not Brexit. 331dot (talk) 12:00, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You are right. The blurb should be about Brexit and how it has resulted in this resignation. Carcharoth (talk) 12:06, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The news here is not Brexit, but May resigning while citing Brexit as a reason. That can be explained in the article. 331dot (talk) 12:07, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This is very much part of the ongoing Brexit news saga. Carcharoth (talk) 12:22, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It's part of it, but not the whole story(unlike the Austria example you give). I think we will just need to agree to disagree; the chips will fall where they may. 331dot (talk) 12:30, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait - we should post this story as and when a new leader takes over as PM. At the moment it's a little bit WP:CRYSTAL, because who knows what might happen next.  — Amakuru (talk) 12:00, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • That will be early July. No need to wait until then. Carcharoth (talk) 12:06, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      Maybe, maybe not. If the remain-leaning Tories decide they can't support the new leader then they won't become PM, there'd probably be a general election instead. Either way, today's announcement is just the beginning of a process (or somewhere in the middle if you count it as part of the whole Brexit debacle). We've already established that individual milestones in the process, including the meaningful votes, are not worthy of ITN and it's the change of leader itself that will be the newsworthy thing, not this announcement. Because if we post this now, then it's likely people will oppose a future "Foo Bar succeeds Theresa May as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom" story, and I think the latter is the one that is more ITN-worthy.  — Amakuru (talk) 12:09, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      It is ironic that you are quoting WP:CRYSTAL, while speculating about what might happen. Sometimes I think we just need to accept something is in the news and not try too hard to predict what may be newsworthy next month. Carcharoth (talk) 12:22, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support but with a preference of mentioning Brexit in the blurb, as that's the thing which makes this resignation exceptional. 49 TL 12:19, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Blurb now because it's currently in the news and derivative stories will likely be in the news for a while longer (that's even though historically we've waited till the replacement takes office. Embrace the bias I suppose.). Banedon (talk) 12:25, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This is in the news now; no sense in waiting.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:29, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment alt 2 looks fine, but the update, buried half way down the article, is one sentence. I won't read this very long article, I hope the supporters have scrutinized it for BLP vios (as so often happens people support things they do not fully understand) --LaserLegs (talk) 12:31, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Not a traditional changing of the guard as far as ITN is concerned, but still exceedingly newsworthy given the context.--WaltCip (talk) 12:43, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait We shouldn't be posting this story twice, which is effectively what we'll do when we put up the inevitable blurb saying who the new Prime Minister is. Just leave this story until we know the result of the leadership election. 88.215.17.228 (talk) 12:46, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment... Oppose ... because I didn't want to cast the only outright oppose vote. It's in the news all right, but a) it was certainly not unexpected, b) the announcement has no immediate official effect, and c) it would be more meaningful to readers to blurb the eventual announcement of her successor, IMO. – Sca (talk) 13:01, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
David Who? – Sca (talk) 14:09, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
There is no real comparison with Thatcher, who, for better or worse, was a significant transformative figure in the history of her country (and arguably elsewhere too), while May is a brief transitional figure who is resigning as expected precisely because of her inability to transform anything (arguments over who is to blame for that are not relevant to whether her departure belongs on our front page). Tlhslobus (talk) 01:05, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@DBigXray: Is the PM of Cambodia trying and failing to negotiate an exit from the European Union? 331dot (talk) 14:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • 331dot FYI, I am following this topic from the very beginning. This is a news specific to the British Politics. We should see how this one specific event (only the "intention") affects others. This should be enough hint to clarify my position. regards. --DBigXrayᗙ 15:33, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose we don't normally post "announcements of intention". The Rambling Man (talk) 14:46, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • The extensive news coverage is about more than the intent to resign. The difficulty is coming up with a blurb that reflects headlines such as:

      'Theresa May quits: UK set for new PM by end of July'; Brexit brings down May, Johnson stakes leadership claim; May quits amid Brexit impasse, will be gone in weeks; May standing down after failing to negotiate Brexit deal; Theresa May, Undone by Brexit, Will Step Down as Prime Minister; May to resign after failures on Brexit.

      Though actually, those headlines make clear that the nomination should have focused on the reasons for the resignation. There won't be this sort of coverage when the new leader takes over. Carcharoth (talk) 15:22, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until the transition takes place. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:52, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Why is there this focus on trying to decide which stage of a process should go on ITN? Surely the point to put something up is when it is in the news. This is major news, that has been leading the news pages of nearly all the major news sites in Europe and the USA and the rest of the Anglophone world for most of the day. It is getting far more coverage than the Austrian government collapse, yet there appears to be entrenched opposition to this because it is Brexit and no-one really knows how to handle the disjointed way the 'milestones' happen. I really don't get why the Austrian government thing (which didn't really feature much at all in the news) got posted and this event might not get posted. (Brythones said it much better than I did.) Carcharoth (talk) 15:13, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • I'd support Brexit going back into Ongoing. After all, this event, the next few weeks of leadership elections, possible general elections, and eventual Brexit (or not) are all related to the core event of Brexit. May's departure is incidental. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:19, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support this is a major news topic. Brythones (talk) 15:06, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until the resignation is official. This isn't even the first time that May herself has announced an intention to resign. --Jayron32 15:18, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • (ec) It IS official. She will officially resign on 7 June. She stood outside Downing Street behind a podium for goodness sake. This is not like her other vague announcements that she would step aside when Brexit was over (ha!).-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:29, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'll tell you what is news - I don't believe a sitting British Prime Minister has ever broke down in tears in public before. I watched the speech and was all for saying "don't let the door hit you on the way out" until the last three seconds, then I just sat there in silence. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 15:46, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
One may feel sorry for a person in such a predicament, but empathy does not make the event more newsworthy. – Sca (talk) 22:02, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
At least there was no fit of coughing, and the numbers on the door of No 10 didn't fall off. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:26, 25 May 2019 (UTC) [reply]
A universally expected event involving the universally expected person, who's been in the Brexit 'news' for nearly three years, is more newsworthy than the identity of her unknown successor – whose task it will be to achieve some degree of order in the interminable UK-EU brouhaha? – Sca (talk) 21:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, no (and I pity the person who comes next), but this is sooner than expected and taking over the news. May resigning is, let's accept it, definitely news; if we wait for the successor (also news in itself) this will no longer be the story and we likely wouldn't condense them into one blurb (i.e. we'd veto '[X] becomes UK PM after May resigns because Brexit' because of squishing multiple stories and old news). Kingsif (talk) 22:00, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Questions are being asked as to why this hasn't been run yet. Daniel Case (talk) 22:12, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support this is page 1, above-the-fold news everywhere. If her "intention" to resign is newsworthy, then it's newsworthy. – Levivich 00:26, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Objectively this isn't really significant news, as distinct from an excuse for the media to make a fuss about it to try to sell more copies and more advertising (where the story sells largely for 'human interest' reasons, including all those pictures of her briefly in tears, which have a lot in common with similar showbiz celeb stories that we quite rightly don't post on our front page). Her resignation had been expected for a long time, if only because she had already announced she was going to resign. All we really have is a date for when the race to succeed her officially begins (unofficially it has been going on ever since she lost her Commons majority 2 years ago, and more intensely recently after her previous announcement that she would be resigning). We still don't know precisely when she will cease to be PM (because that depends on how long the succession race lasts, and just conceivably also on whether the new Tory leader can command a majority in the Commons), let alone who her successor will be and what that will or won't mean for whether or when Brexit happens and whether it's with or without a deal. In effect it's just another fairly minor and fully expected development in the ongoing Brexit saga (and arguably even less significant in that context in real terms than the supposedly 'meaningless' Euro election results expected on Sunday, when her party is expected to get humiliated). I think it unlikely that a similar story would be posted about most other countries. I expect to support posting any new PM, whenever there actually is one. Tlhslobus (talk) 00:39, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support although her departure has long been predicted, the actual announcement of her resignation is still significant and received worldwide coverage. -Zanhe (talk) 05:30, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted. Sandstein 06:55, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting Oppose until it actually happens and when the Britishers have a new PM. --Invisible Lad (talk) 07:39, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting question was there really consensus to post here? I know I'm not a neutral observer in this, but I don't see any consensus either way given the variety of strong arguments against the significance of this versus the supports principally being "but it's in the news now" (which is not sufficient on it's own, otherwise we'd be posting daily about celebrities). Thryduulf (talk) 10:24, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Absolutely not. There is significant opposition, which was not dismissed. Pull immediately. What's the point in a discussion here if it's just going to be ignored?  — Amakuru (talk) 12:14, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
There was a rough consensus. The supports were not just “this is in the news now”, they were “this is a Prime Minister resigning so it is significant and in the news now.” There is no point waiting to June 7 and I don’t attach much weight to those arguments. Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:42, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Close - Sandstein interpreted there to be a consensus and posted this. The discussion is done. We must get ourselves out of the habit of repeatedly posting and pulling items, as it only confuses our readers. Instead, we should focus on making sure that the blurb is accurate and the articles are sufficiently updated now that this has been posted. WaltCip (talk) 13:16, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with Walt, although I opposed posting this one. Please, no more dilettantish Pushmi-Pullyu episodes. – Sca (talk) 13:29, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"I'd say, "Of course-e-ros, Can't you?" Martinevans123 (talk) 18:26, 25 May 2019 (UTC) [reply]
  • What's the problem here? We have a link to a high quality article that's made headlines around the world, about a meaningful (though predicted) milestone in a major change to an economic union that affects millions of people. Satisfies WP:ITN#Purpose brilliantly. It is basically the exact opposite of the completely irrelevant disaster stubs about to be whisked onto the main page. I suggest moving on. --LaserLegs (talk) 13:38, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I guess the problem was that some people thought there was no consensus to post. I was in the Oppose camp, but I think the interpretation of consensus was reasonable. I made it about 18-12 for posting, which is well short of a 2 to 1 supermajority, but there was a heavy majority for posting among the later votes (about 8 out of the last 10 votes), which it seemed reasonable to interpret as the consensus having shifted from 'no consensus' to 'consensus to post'. So on that basis I'm now offering post-posting support. And I'm also inclined to agree with WaltCip's above call for Close.Tlhslobus (talk) 21:31, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, me too. I vehemently disagreed with cherry-picking this ceremonious moment of declaration of intent of something inconsequential, but there's a consensus. Although, as always with so many stupid alt blurbs, it was impossible to know what people were actually voting for. I guess it's an echo of the Brexit debacle, no-one really knowing what they were in favour of, yet being absolutely in favour of what it was, regardless, to their dying day. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:35, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

May 23

[edit]
May 23, 2019 (2019-05-23) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

RD: Zakir Rashid Bhat

[edit]
Article: Zakir Rashid Bhat (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: "India's most wanted" militant Sherenk1 (talk) 08:40, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Arolsen Archives (13 Million Nazi Era Archives Made Available Online

[edit]
Closing, clear that it's not ready. Sir Joseph (talk) 20:36, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Arolsen Archives-International Center on Nazi Persecution (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Around 13 million documents from Nazi Concentration Camps are posted online. (Post)
News source(s): https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Around-13-million-documents-from-Nazi-concentration-camps-posted-online-590335
Credits:
Nominator's comments: I think this is fairly significant and should be highlighted, just browsing some of the documents and details that they kept track of is something to see, perhaps especially in today's world. Sir Joseph (talk) 19:20, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Doesn't DYK require the article to be either new or significantly expanded that would prohibit this from being on the page? I also don't think I can find a picture that would make this a featured picture, nor one that would be appropriate for the page, perhaps a list but what do you suggest? Sir Joseph (talk) 20:28, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Make it GA quality and Bob's your uncle. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:30, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
[12] is tomorrow night. Based on that outcome we'll see what I can do. Sir Joseph (talk) 20:33, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – No clear target article in the blurb. If we assume the Arolsen Archives is the target article, the article is in need of significant improvements in referencing; several paragraphs lack citations. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 19:32, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above. This is very interesting but at the moment I'm not convinced ITN is the best place to promote this on the main page. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:36, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) 2019 European Parliament election

[edit]
If you want ongoing, nom for ongoing. The election is WP:ITNR so when they're done go ahead and nom. --LaserLegs (talk) 20:56, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2019 European Parliament election (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): European Parliament
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: These elections are large and take place over 23-26 May, so it would be appropriate to add them to Ongoing before the results are in. —AlphaMikeOmega (talk) 17:39, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Lots of elections are "large" (for any given definition of large) and by convention we generally only post the results. I don't see any compelling reason to post an in-process election to "ongoing" in contravention of existing practice. There's nothing inherently special about these elections over any other we normally post. --Jayron32 17:53, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Jayron32. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:58, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Further to Jayron's points, EU elections don't equate to what we normally think of as elections; the European Parliament is a largely symbolic body with minimal actual influence. We also won't have a "result" on Sunday in the sense one normally thinks of it; each of the 28 participating nations is electing members of its own political parties (the current largest party in the parliament is the German CDU, with 29 of the 751 seats), so there won't be a result as such, as much as the prelude to weeks of coalition-building until we eventually end up with something that looks like this. In the unlikely event that there's a clear outcome (that is, the loose coalitions that make up the PES or EPP groupings manage to get a majority), I wouldn't object to our posting the result. (European elections are currently in ITNR, but probably shouldn't be. This was the alleged "consensus" that led to them being added.) ‑ Iridescent 18:08, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I would disagree that it is purely symbolic; the EU has a convoluted power-sharing structure, but the European Parliament does have a legislative role it shares with the Council and the Commission, and the legislation the EU passes (of which the Parliament has a role, though not the only role) is binding on member states. I also understand that it has a convoluted means of creating coalitions and forming the equivalent of a "government", which will not happen right when the election is complete. However, under the "strike-while-the-iron-is-hot" principle (that is, posting articles to the main page when people are reading about those topics in the news), this should still be posted when the elections are complete (and the article is properly updated with enough well-referenced added) so that the posting coincides with the pre-eminence in news sources. As to your third point, ITNR is largely irrelevant if consensus is to post it anyways. The presence, or lack thereof, or dubiousness-of-being-on ITNR should have no bearing on discussions here at ITNC which may determine that an item is worth posting without regard to ITNR status. The fact that something does or doesn't belong on ITNR because you call into question the process that put it there should have no bearing on whether or not this specific item has consensus to be posted. --Jayron32 18:16, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    It does have veto powers, but it has no Right of initiative—they can block things from happening, and theoretically they can dismiss the Commission, but they can't propose their own laws. Whether something is legitimately ITNR is entirely valid; if it's ITNR then we're only concerned with the article quality, not with whether the topic is actually newsworthy, but if it's not then we're also judging whether this is actually something readers want to know. Except in those countries where the results are of domestic significance as a predictor of how forthcoming national elections will play out, the EU elections won't even be a main story when the results are published on Monday; people really don't care. (Can you name your Euro-MP?) ‑ Iridescent 18:38, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, but not being on ITNR (or not supposed to be on ITNR) has no bearing on whether or not the news is actually covering THIS specific event. News either is, or is not, covering it. ITNR just means that those are events we EXPECT news to cover, but the actual evidence is in the actual news. ITNR status cannot make the actual news coverage not be there. And here is my full list of MEPs: ∅ --Jayron32 20:18, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Wales has four: Jill, Glenys, Nathan and Kay. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:49, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    If Wikipedia has an award for unflattering photography, that infobox will certainly win it; when Nigel Farage is the most normal looking person in the group, something is seriously wrong somewhere. ‑ Iridescent 19:37, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Close until results are released. A consensus to post to ongoing will not develop. This item is explicitly listed as ITNR: Wikipedia:In the news/Recurring items#Elections and heads of state. The above discussion can continue at WT:ITNR and this can be re-nominated after May 26.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 19:41, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - I have proposed the removal of this item on ITNR. As long as the ITNR status of this item is in dispute, it cannot be assumed that there is an automatic consensus to post, and so ITNR should not apply here. Similar to when an article proposed for ITNC is nominated for deletion.--WaltCip (talk) 19:58, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Beaton Tulk

[edit]
Article: Beaton Tulk (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Well sourced and updated --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 17:35, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2019 Indian general election

[edit]
Article: 2019 Indian general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Bharatiya Janata Party, led by incumbent Prime Minister Narendra Modi, wins the most seats in the 2019 Indian general election. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Bharatiya Janata Party-led National Democratic Alliance wins a majority in the Indian general election.
Alternative blurb II: ​ The incumbent Bharatiya Janata Party and its allies, led by Narendra Modi, win the 2019 Indian general election by a landslide.
Alternative blurb III: ​ The Bharatiya Janata Party wins the 2019 Indian general election, becoming only the second government in Indian history to hold consecutive terms in office.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Results will be announced within 24 hours, so we can update the blurb then. Posting it now so that editors can take note of comments to improve article to post in ITN. I believe more prose will be needed especially in the Results section. Sherenk1 (talk) 04:46, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Wait till the complete result gets declared.

  • Support Article is being updated, major news outlets are all-but-calling it, and given the reason for Modi's surprise victory (recent tensions with Pakistan) and Pakistan's recent missile test this seems like major news --valereee (talk) 10:27, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The election results are halfway through and the BJP is leading by over 20 seats over the majority (295, as of now). In any case, the National Democratic Alliance will win since the next largest party is leading in 50 seats or so. Added a speculative blurb to reflect that. And obviously, wait till results are declared (will take 6 hours approximately). --qedk (t 桜 c) 10:31, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose unless and until results section is expanded to similar quality as rest of article, and tenses (i.e. "will be") are changed to reflect completion of the election. If and when any of that is done, consider this a full support without having to ping me to change it. --Jayron32 10:57, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support subject to update and final result. Trends and leads show that result is unlikely to change so I am supporting the ALTBlurb. I proposed it according to the 2014 election ITN blurb.-Nizil (talk) 11:25, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The final results, i.e. leads -> won, are now being officially declared. Let us wait a few more hours, till enough "won" declarations are out to officially confirm Mr Modi's victory. The results section is now cleaner than when this nom was made. I agree, we need more prose in the results section. I am just waiting for multiple WP:RS to publish the text on the results, and then we can summarize them in our own words, thereby meet our WP:V and other content norms. Other than all that, I support the nom. The article was one of the top 25 high traffic en-wikipedia articles in April, and I suspect it will be in the top 25 or 100 again in May. Suggests that it is a notable subject. If we decide to put out a blurb and something needs a check, please leave me a message on my talk page. I have to take care of kids and do some RL chores, but will keep an eye and help if I can. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 11:45, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. As soon as it is announced (a few hours). El_C 12:05, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Added altblurb3, consecutive terms almost never occur in Indian politics. [13] --qedk (t 桜 c) 14:53, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support but I'd like to add that our blurb should include Modi, since winning the most seats in a parliamentary system decides the person who holds the office of Prime Minister. NorthernFalcon (talk) 15:15, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments: [a] The final results can be seen here. Based on the 402 "wins" and 138 "leading-but-pending" officially declared, Modi and the BJP alliance have officially crossed the 272 "won" mark already, i.e. won the majority according to their Election Commission. (the first two blurbs are now supported by the official results) [b] the BJP with its alliance is leading on many more, confirming the landslide-victory call of all the international media I have checked so far (e.g. Australia, Canada, France, Japan, UK, US, etc) plus their domestic media. [c] I have added some more prose with sources to the results section after the table. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 18:54, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Added. Chose to go with alt.2, for now. Special thanks goes Ms Sarah Welch, for all her efforts. El_C 19:00, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

May 22

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May 22, 2019 (2019-05-22) (Wednesday)
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Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Judith Kerr

[edit]
Article: Judith Kerr (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Needs references. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:58, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

May 21

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May 21, 2019 (2019-05-21) (Tuesday)
Armed conflict and attacks
  • Eleven people were killed in an ambush at 12th mile in Khonsa-Deomali road in Tirap District in Arunachal Pradesh. (Reuters)

Business and economy

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Sports

(Posted) RD: Ali Mohammad Mahar

[edit]
Article: Ali Mohammad Mahar (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.dawn.com/news/1483659/
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Pakistan's Federal Minister for Narcotics Control dies while in office. Invisible Lad (talk) 08:30, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Kami Rita

[edit]
Consensus will not develop to post. Stephen 03:34, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Kami Rita (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Kami Rita climbs Mount Everest for a record 23rd and 24th time, six days apart. (Post)
News source(s): The Washington Post, Smithsonian Magazine
Credits:
 --- Coffeeandcrumbs 02:57, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Binyavanga Wainaina

[edit]
Article: Binyavanga Wainaina (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Prize-winning Kenyan writer. Could use some more refs, article is almost there. Sherenk1 (talk) 12:04, 22 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support: I agree with Sherenk1, Wainaina is prize-winning and the "Most Influential People in the World" mention is great. I added a reference two two lines that seemed unreferenced previously; the article looks good to me. If there are specific suggestions for improvements, I'd be happy to work on edits. = paul2520 (talk) 02:39, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I added several citations. No more cn tags. Pinging Sherenk1 and Stephen. = paul2520 (talk) 15:42, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Stephen:  Done. = paul2520 (talk) 12:51, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Man Booker International Prize 2019

[edit]
Stale, unimproved. Stephen 03:20, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Man Booker International Prize (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Omani author Jokha Alharthi wins the Man Booker International Prize becoming the first Arabic writer to do so. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Man Booker International Prize is awarded to Omani author Jokha Alharthi for Celestial Bodies, the first book written in Arabic to win the prize.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Omani author Jokha Alharthi wins the Man Booker International Prize.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: First Arabic writer. Sherenk1 (talk) 07:32, 22 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Sherenk1: Generally ITN worthy but the article contains no references for the winning entry, just shortlist and longlist. That needs to be fixed first. Also, that she is the first Arabic writer to win is not in the article. Regards SoWhy 08:16, 22 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@SoWhy: Support - MBI prize is second biggest prize to Nobel for international literature. I have fixed the issues in the original article posted by commenter. 9:26, 22 May 2019
  • (edit conflict) Support. Article is referenced and updated and Man Booker Prize is generally ITN worthy anyway. I proposed an altblurb that is more in line with the article. However, BBC says she is the first Arabic winner while The Guardian says she is the first winner to write in Arabic which is not the same since non-Arabic people can write in Arabic and Arabic people can write in other languages. If this cannot be resolved, I suggest altblurb2 be used which omits either. Regards SoWhy 08:58, 22 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oppose for now. TRM is correct, I missed that part on ITNR. I'll support the nom once the article about al-Harthi is of sufficient quality. Regards SoWhy 09:57, 22 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I've fixed the blurbs to match house style. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:12, 22 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment please note, ITNR is clear about the target in this case: Unless otherwise noted, the winner of the prize is normally the target article. i.e. the target article must be Jokha al-Harthi which is basically a stub, so oppose. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:44, 22 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@SoWhy: and @The Rambling Man: - This last year entry shows the Man Booker article as bold. Sherenk1 (talk) 11:40, 22 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Contrary to the rules at ITNR then. Just because someone made a mistake, no need to repeat it. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:47, 22 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair, the reason that mistake was made last year was because even though there was consensus that the article on the author wasn't up to scratch and if it ran we'd need to bold either the prize or the book while leaving the author unbolded, some guy called "The Rambling Man" complained that it hadn't been posted. ‑ Iridescent 17:18, 22 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oddly, it seems that the consensus in that discussion was that "the winner of the prize" referred to the winning book, not the winning author.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 17:37, 22 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nobody normally listens to me when I complain, I don't see why that time was any different. And just because I can assess consensus, it doesn't mean I agree with it. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:22, 22 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Nan Winton

[edit]
Article: Nan Winton (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: First female newsreader on the BBC. Died on 11 May but only announced in sources today. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:13, 21 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently things doesn't need votes in order to be posted. Interesting. INeedSupport :3 17:48, 22 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If the article is of sufficient quality an RD is presumed to be postable. Admins can use their discretion in such cases.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 18:01, 22 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, absolutely no problem here unless you can see any issues with the article? The Rambling Man (talk) 18:20, 22 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't really see any problems with the article. I just thought that votes are required in order to post things. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ INeedSupport :3 19:23, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not if we assume that some of our admins are capable of assessing article quality of RDs. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:35, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

May 20

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May 20, 2019 (2019-05-20) (Monday)
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(Closed) RD: Niki Lauda

[edit]
Not happening. --qedk (t 桜 c) 20:17, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Niki Lauda (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Three-time Formula One world champion Niki Lauda dies at 70. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, Fox Sports, USA Today, The Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Three-time F1 World Drivers' Champion and motosport legend. Could, even, deserve a blurb. The article has some sourcing issues, however, I expect improvements in the next few hours as the news of his death will begin to spread. SirEdimon (talk) 03:33, 21 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) 2019 Indonesian general election

[edit]
Article: 2019 Indonesian general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In the 2019 Indonesian general election, Joko Widodo is reelected President of Indonesia, while his party PDI-P wins the largest share of legislative votes. (Post)
News source(s): Nikkei, The New York Times, BBC
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Legislative election is pending official sources, but I imagine there will be results by the time this gets posted. Juxlos (talk) 19:46, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Game of Thrones

[edit]
no. --Jayron32 15:10, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Game of Thrones (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Game of Thrones, the most popular television series on the planet, concludes. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The television series Game of Thrones concludes.
News source(s): CNN, Guardian
Credits:
 --5.44.170.9 (talk) 02:33, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the unlikely event this is a serious nomination, obviously oppose. Aside from anything else, it's not remotely "the most popular television series on the planet", given that in most markets it's only available on obscure cable or satellite channels. ‑ Iridescent 02:39, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
>" in most markets it's only available on obscure cable or satellite channels" While I couldn't find data for worldwide popularity, as someone who myself lives in a third-world country I guarantee you it's about as popular as it is in the US. I.e. it's everywhere. --5.44.170.9 (talk) 03:42, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment for what it's worth, we did post both the last Harry Potter book and the last film, so there is some precedent here. That said, I think we would need some sort of viewership record broken to validate its posting, and we don't have those numbers yet. I would probably support if it ends up being the highest-rated cable episode of all time, but it will be hard to get reliable worldwide numbers. Teemu08 (talk) 03:02, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
>"if it ends up being the highest-rated cable episode of all time" As a hardcore fan I guarantee you that's not happening. =5.44.170.9 (talk) 03:15, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The blurb about the final Harry Potter film was about the audience record being broken, not just the fact that it was released. While we did briefly post the publication of the final book in the series, that was in the very early years of ITN when we didn't really have notability criteria and discussions looked like this. ‑ Iridescent 12:06, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose I think there are only a few television shows that have both international appeal and viewership as well as decades of episodes to suggest even a possible ITN, those being Doctor Who and The Simpsons. And even then, like with GoT here, there could be spinoff series which means the show really hasn't end. --Masem (t) 04:45, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose - WHAT? As per above. Sherenk1 (talk) 04:47, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hold your damn horses! - Most of the Western hemisphere was asleep at the time that this was nominated and eventually closed. Two hours is hardly enough time to gauge a snow closure under those circumstances. As for where I stand on this, I'm no fan of the series, but I know enough about it to recognize that social media was practically deluged by this. It would be idiotic to assume that there was nothing newsworthy about this series. Support and I urge this nomination to be re-opened for a full 24 hours. WaltCip (talk) 10:50, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Huh? It was nominated at 9.30pm Eastern/5.30pm Pacific time. The only significant English-language market where most of the population would be asleep at that time is UK/Ireland, where GoT is only shown on satellite channel Sky Atlantic and has only once reached the 5,000,000 viewer mark (to put it in perspective, the record UK viewership for GoT is less than half the current audience of the ailing I'm a Celebrity...Get Me Out of Here!). If you really feel this needs further discussion I don't object to it being re-opened, but treating a programme this niche as "in the news" would really open the floodgates, since more popular shows either come to an end or have significant developments all the time (The Big Bang Theory ended a couple of weeks ago, for instance). ‑ Iridescent 11:46, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Because it's only shown on Sky Atlantic over here, and we don't even get HBO Go, it's become ridiculously pirated which makes viewing numbers inflated. I'm sure I've even seen it said that it's the most pirated show ever. Not sure that this makes it worthy of a blurb though. --IrnBruFan7 (talk) 12:06, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    GoT is #1 on the Nielsen ratings for cable network TV[14] That's beating out all of the NBA playoff games by at least 2.0 rating points. Throughout the season it has destroyed viewer records[15] posting viewership into the tens of millions. In terms of advertising and social media visibility, GoT is practically ubiquitous. Any advertiser that's able to latch onto the brand to help sell its product will do so[16]. The impact of this series on popular culture is undeniable.--WaltCip (talk) 12:14, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've posted a more accurate blurb but I oppose posting this. Most news coverage simply discusses the plot. 331dot (talk) 11:50, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose - I understand the nom. But I have to oppose based on the fact that this belongs in some Entertainment mag, not on Wikipedia ITN. Also quite Americanized news.BabbaQ (talk) 11:56, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - this has no hope of notability in the current ITN landscape. ZettaComposer (talk) 11:58, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I’m not opposed to entertainment noms - the casting of the first female Doctor Who got a fair amount of support I recall, although it wasn’t posted - and GoT is a good example of “water cooler” TV that isn’t seen much anymore. I doubt there will be media companies live blogging of the last episode of Big Banc Theory. The target article is good quality but would need more of an update to cover reactions to the finale. Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:04, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I like GoT, but simply noting the (currently) last show airing is completely insignificant. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:20, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@The Rambling Man: What story can ITN post that would properly reflect the significance in this series in a way that is considered "in the news"?--WaltCip (talk) 12:27, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I guess record viewership of the final episode might cut it? The Rambling Man (talk) 12:31, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Fair enough. I don't have a problem now if this nom is re-closed, but I do reserve the right to re-nom should those circumstances arise.--WaltCip (talk) 12:45, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, but I'd expect it to fail as well. Back in the day, we had a third of our country's population watching a snooker match at 1 a.m. I don't think 1/3 of the population of anywhere is going to be watching GoT. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:04, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

May 19

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May 19, 2019 (2019-05-19) (Sunday)
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May 18

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May 18, 2019 (2019-05-18) (Saturday)
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  • Crime in Alabama
    • One person was killed and eight injured in a shooting after a dispute between two women at a large high school graduation party. The suspect is still at large. (Associated Press)

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Sports

(Posted) RD: Signe Marie Stray Ryssdal

[edit]
Article: Signe Marie Stray Ryssdal (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Nettavisen
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Recent death of a Norwegian lawyer and politician. Thsmi002 (talk) 13:37, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Austin Eubanks

[edit]
Article: Austin Eubanks (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: New article that is well sourced. Thsmi002 (talk) 13:03, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose This is a perfect match of the Bartman clause in WP:1E. Every report referenced in the article is centered on Columbine and it's lasting impact (just as every "where are they now" story treats Bartman). GreatCaesarsGhost 15:48, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Looks to be adequately referenced. -- Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:53, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose a few unreferenced claims, and I'm inclined to agree with GCG re 1E but this is ITN not AFD, so while the article exists and if it gets to be in okay shape, there's not much we can do here about it. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:51, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • IAR says we can do whatever we want - if enough editors agree with me, it will not be posted. But others are free to support because they feel the target does not fail 1E OR they agree with you that WP:N should not be argued at ITNC. My argument against entering an AFD in response to a nom is a) it is pointy, & b) it allows a single user to sidetrack the nom, even if it's ultimately kept. GreatCaesarsGhost 11:44, 21 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I removed the one unreferenced claim I saw. Thsmi002 (talk) 02:56, 21 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Ibiza affair

[edit]
Article: Ibiza affair (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Austrian political scandal, the Ibiza affair, has resulted in the end of the current government and new elections. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A video showcasing Austrian Vice-Chancellor Strache and his deputy asking for highly controversial electoral support from a Russian oligarch, now known as the Ibiza affair, resulted in the end of the current government and a snap election in Austria.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Austrian Vice Chancellor Heinz-Christian Strache and a key Freedom Party (FPÖ) colleague resign following revelations of unethical politics, prompting Chancellor Sebastian Kurz to cancel the conservatives's coalition with the FPÖ and slate new elections.
Alternative blurb III: ​ An Austrian political scandal, known as the Ibiza affair, has resulted in the end of the current government and a snap election.
Alternative blurb IV: ​ The Ibiza affair, an Austrian political scandal, resulted in the end of the current government and a snap election.
News source(s): ORF (de), tagesschau (de), washingtonpost (en), Süddeutsche Zeitung (German), NY Times
Credits:

 Colonestarrice (talk) 19:17, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

And I changed the blurb. Colonestarrice (talk) 20:36, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
A scandal, which is widely considered the biggest one of the second republic, and the sudden end of a government (an extraordinary controversial one in addition), is, in my opinion, more interesting than a normal election. Colonestarrice (talk) 21:35, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, which is presumably why you proposed the nomination. Thanks for reiterating your interest in getting the story posted. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:40, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
PS: "Ibiza affair" may not ring a bell with most Eng.-lang. readers. Suggest some generic title, such as "2019 Austrian political controversy." ("Affair" may be associated with sexual peccadillos; "scandal" may strike some as overwrought.) Sca (talk) 21:46, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with that. Right now, proposals look like the worst kind of tabloid journalism ("affair", "showcasing", "revelation", etc etc). Let's not forget this is an encyclopedia. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:50, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I decline to debate your comment (expected), and you seem to be ignoring my disapproval of "affair" and "scandal," but IMO "revelations" (linked to the article) is a perfectly NPOV use of the word for the contents of the video, which is all over the Net. – Sca (talk) 22:02, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
PS: Would you care to comment on the aforementioned title of the article? Sca (talk) 22:09, 18 May 2019 (UTC) (edit conflict)[reply]
Sure, it's crappy, non-intuitive, non-encyclopedic, might be a worthy redirect but nothing more. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:11, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Decline away. I was agreeing with your general point. But I embellished it with a refusal to dip into tabloidism with garbage like "revelations". Encyclopedias don't use those terms. The press who want to sell newspapers might do. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:05, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
In the interest of accuracy, https://www.britannica.com/topic/Nike-Inc - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 00:30, 21 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
OK, well I don't like the newly extant use of "published" to mean posted on a website, but I suppose "reports" could be substituted for "revelations" in this instance. Sca (talk) 22:12, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I think we've generally accepted "published" to include "published on the internet" for about ... 20 years. Time moves on. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:15, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Who's we? Not usual in U.S. English, in my experience. – Sca (talk) 22:20, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Well I guess that's symptomatic of the US who currently seem determined to return their own universe to the 1970s. Disgraceful really. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:21, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"Determined to return their own universe to the 1970s." – WP:NAT
– Speaking of which, how's that Brexit project of yours going? – Sca (talk) 02:24, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know what you mean, it's nothing to do with me. And it's not nationalist editing, that's simply a statement of fact. But good try!! The Rambling Man (talk) 13:25, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"a key Freedom Party (FPÖ) colleague" – Gudenus is not important enough to deserve 5 words. You mentioned the FPÖ twice, considering that most people don't know what the FPÖ is, that is a bit superfluous in my opinion. "...Colleague resign following revelations..." – to mention individual resignations is redundant since the whole government is gone after all. "...revelations of unethical politics..." – some say it's unethical others say it's immoral, illegal, corrupt... what we can all agree on is that it is "highly controversial" .Colonestarrice (talk) 07:40, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Agree allusion to Gudenus can be dropped. FYI, since you apparently understand German, here's German Wiki's version:
Nach dem Rücktritt Heinz-Christian Straches als Vizekanzler und FPÖ-Parteiobmann im Zuge der "Ibiza-Affäre" hat Bundeskanzler Sebastian Kurz vorgezogene Neuwahlen in Österreich vorgeschlagen."
Parteiobmann was a new one to me. – Sca (talk) 15:13, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Imbroglio? How about "pecadillo" or "hullabaloo"?WaltCip (talk) 13:54, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Peccadillo is subliminally raunchy. Hullabaloo his a nice ring to it but makes me think of Cat Ballou. – Sca (talk) 14:55, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
PT: "results in." – Sca (talk) 14:59, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Added alt 4 Kingsif (talk) 15:14, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Eurovision Song Contest 2019

[edit]
Article: Eurovision Song Contest 2019 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Netherlands, represented by Duncan Laurence, wins the Eurovision Song Contest in Tel Aviv, Israel. (Post)
News source(s): [17]
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Nominating it now so we can discuss blurb layout which is discussed each year. BabbaQ (talk) 08:13, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Australia general election

[edit]
Article: 2019 Australian federal election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Liberal–National Coalition, led by Prime Minister Scott Morrison, wins the most seats in the Australian federal election. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Liberal–National Coalition, led by Prime Minister Scott Morrison, retains government at the Australian federal election.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Exit polls initially indicated Labor won, but its leader Shorten has now conceded based on actual results giving the governing coalition the most seats(though not a majority, at least yet) 331dot (talk) 14:17, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, forgot to pipe it. 331dot (talk) 00:48, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

UTC)

  • Support - Good article. Referenced. Good to go.BabbaQ (talk) 00:55, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Once all the votes are counted, I would suggest changing the blurb to reference whether Morrison has won a majority government or a minority government. NorthernFalcon (talk) 04:14, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support but Change the blurb - the fact that the Coalition won the most seats is not directly relevant; there were scenarios where they could have won the most seats but lost government. More importantly, I haven't seen any RS describe the win in those words. Blurb should replace "wins the most seats in the Australian federal election" with something like "retains government at the Australian federal election". Adpete (talk) 04:38, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I chose to go with the original blurb since it seemed more cogent and since PM already implies the position was retained. Also, "retains government" just sounds a bit awkward. El_C 05:31, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Added. El_C 05:23, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) 2019 redefinition of SI base units

[edit]
I think we're done here. – Ammarpad (talk) 06:38, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2019 redefinition of SI base units (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A redefinition of the metric system base units comes into force today, the 144th anniversary of the Metre Convention. (Post)
News source(s): NIST
Credits:
Nominator's comments: This should be posted on 20 May 2019 (It comes into effect everywhere on earth at one second after midnight (UTC) on that day). Guy Macon (talk) 15:25, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

May 17

[edit]
May 17, 2019 (2019-05-17) (Friday)
International relations

Law and crime

(Posted) RD: Herman Wouk

[edit]
Article: Herman Wouk (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New York Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article seems to be in good shape. Notable writer. EternalNomad (talk) 20:02, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe they should have. Grumpy Cat, especially, was still bigger than anyone in her field, and her death greatly impacts her empire's earning potential from here on. Not like Hollywood changed in the slightest for lack of formerly transformative Doris Day. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:06, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Still, the point remains they didn't blurb, and Day did, and it appears you're now trying to suggest that people who are not transformative at the time of death shouldn't be eligible for a blurb? Is that what you're trying to say? Be clear. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:56, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm saying he was transformative back in the day like the other five were, doing things that many news sources remembered when they died, and for which three of the six got blurbs (rightly or wrongly). I've long said people should die while still transformative to matter here; if I ran this zoo, Wouk and Grumpy Cat would come closest to my ideal (but nonexistent) main page. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:42, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
My post was half in jest since we just had a batch of centenarians or near-centenarians we blurbed for, partially, that it seems. I honestly didn't expect it would come close to passing. Daniel Case (talk) 01:09, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
My suggestion was completely serious infosfar as the standards have become an absolute joke, so the entire situation is half in jest (from my vantage point). The North rmembers him as "a consummate writer until the end." For as much transformation as the other three brought most of our parents and grandparents back in the day, I don't recall any international news praising them for sticking to it well into everyone's current millenium. But yeah, more sincerely than anything, these things do come in threes; I'll strike my suggestion for that alone. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:35, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Same-sex marriage in Taiwan

[edit]
Article: Same-sex marriage in Taiwan (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Taiwan becomes the first country in Asia to legalize same-sex marriage (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Taiwan becomes the first country in Asia to legalize same-sex marriage, effective 24 May.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Taiwan becomes the first location in Asia to legalize same-sex marriage, effective 24 May.
Alternative blurb III: ​ Taiwan becomes the first non-western entity to legalize same-sex marriage, effective 24 May.
News source(s): [18][19]
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: It says in the first line of the article that it's illegal, but that's only because the bill was passed today and won't take effect till the 24th of May. Nominating it now because it's making the news now. Banedon (talk) 07:14, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose just about catching up with civilisation in general. Good trivia. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:18, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Around 30/190+ countries recognize same sex marriage. Taiwan will be the first in Asia, the most populous continent. Civilisation has a long way to go. starship.paint (talk) 08:17, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Yep, so they're about the 30th country to do so. We've rejected plenty of others, the "first in Asia" is arbitrary, and "the most populous continent" is really irrelevant. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:21, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Countries are most commonly grouped via their continents, so that’s not arbitrary. If you have a more obvious way of grouping countries, let me know. Plus, it’s not just me, it’s the reliable sources note that being first in Asia is exactly why it’s so notable. AP / Reuters / Guardian / NYT. This is commonly mentioned in the first sentence, and if you can’t recognise it’s importance, it’s you that is disagreeing with the reliable sources. starship.paint (talk) 10:41, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    It's an arbitrary intersection. It is a VERY slow news period right now, and I'm still not interested that this is the 26th country to (almost but not yet) legalise it. It's great for those concerned, but it's just a sign of the times. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:55, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Overwhelmingly notable but wait - Thanks for giving me credit — even if I happened to somewhat jump the gun on including it as legal. I support including it... but I think we should wait until May 24, 2019 to include it on the frontpage. It's the first country in Asia to legalize same-sex marriage.MarvellingLiked (talk) 07:22, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - for now. Try again when it comes into effect.BabbaQ (talk) 07:52, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly support This is historic and same-sex marriage will be/is on every continent now. If you would prefer to wait until it goes into effect or is signed, feel free. Taiwan will be the first country in Asia to legalize same-sex marriage! -TenorTwelve (talk) 08:11, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    And, what, the 25th country in the world? As noted, just catching up... The Rambling Man (talk) 08:16, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It's the first in Asia. That's pretty notable to say the least. MarvellingLiked (talk) 09:41, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Pretty arbitrary to say the least. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:46, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"The first in Asia" may arbitrary, but it stands in for a cluster of very significant metrics. It's the first Chinese-speaking country to legalize ssm, which makes it an inroad into a tremendous culture with a history of conservative familial attitudes. It's the first country to legalize which is neither European nor a former European colony, which is significant as the modern gay-rights movement, worldwide, is associated with the West. theBOBbobato (talk) 11:21, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be careful with saying it's an "inroad", since it implies that legalizing same-sex marriages is a good thing. For a large fraction of the world's population (ironically including a majority of Taiwan's population), it isn't . Banedon (talk) 14:48, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't be careful at all with saying "inroads". Bigotry is still bigotry even if a large number of people are bigoted. There's no reason to suppose a false equivalency in cases where we are comparing two positions where one position is based on bigotry and another is not. --Jayron32 18:00, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The word 'bigot' carries negative connotations, so the same argument applies to that too. Banedon (talk) 20:34, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'd say "bigotry" is apt. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:55, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment But is this even going to stay? I am aware that there was a 2018 referendum on exactly this issue that actually failed. Can somebody clear this up? (as I don't know the exact details of it) Syopsis (talk) 09:01, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • It's explained in the article. Basically, the referendum was not binding and it didn't supercede the Supreme Court ruling that the government had to introduce same-sex marriage. Smurrayinchester 09:27, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per the same reason for my last 12 or so opposes on similar nominations. Just the latest in the endless succession of countries legalizing SSM. If Russia or Saudi Arabia decide to join the parade I would likely support. Otherwise we have posted more than enough of these. -Ad Orientem (talk) 12:25, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support That's a really good article, and I'm not sure why anyone would feel as though it wasn't good enough quality for the main page. --Jayron32 12:49, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Nobody has felt that way. Nor has this actually happened in reality, so a really odd support. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:04, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Similarly, it seems odd to me that decisions about what to post on the main page should be based on my personal interest in the topic. I'm just one person, and the things I am interested in should have little bearing on what appears on the main page. --Jayron32 13:08, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Keep banging that drum. Last time I looked, this worked on consensus, which involves opinion, not simply on article quality. That works nicely for RD but not for news stories, otherwise we'd be inundated and drowning in Trump factoids. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:42, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    No one has yet nominated a Trump factoid. But keep pretending that they do if it makes you feel better about placing your own personal interests above article quality. --Jayron32 15:13, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Where were you in 2018?? Trump factoid nominations were a nonstop deluge for a while, even into early 2019.--WaltCip (talk) 15:29, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    You'll notice none of those got posted. The system works. --Jayron32 16:51, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Actually, some did get posted, but if your approach had been applied, most all of them would have been posted. Hence you need to stop pretending that ITN rules are aligned to your own belief system, they are not. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:55, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Irrelevant personal comments.
  • Jayron, I respect most of what you post, but "Trump ticker" was a theme for a year. Honestly, you're having one of those days!! (And when you get ITN rules changed to meet your personal version, let me know, in the meantime I'll keep !voting per the status quo. I would have thought an admin should be aware of that....) The Rambling Man (talk) 16:48, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    You don't respect me. You never have. You've made that clear in almost every interaction you've had with me for almost a decade. It's been a rare comment you've left in response to something I have said that I would call respectful. --Jayron32 16:51, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Please read more carefully, something an admin must do. I respect what you post (mostly). That is what I said. You're off the mark several times in several places lately, but that's just human nature. What you shouldn't be doing as an admin is pretending that ITN has some kind of different ruleset to that written, because you're in a position where others may believe what you say, and it simply isn't correct I'm afraid. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:54, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Have I ever, even once, used my admin tool set to override a consensus established via a discussion here, or anywhere else? Have I ever promoted an item against consensus? If not, then my admin status has nothing to do with it. Admins (in situations where they have no intention of using their admin tools) do not have less rights to their own opinions than non-admins do. As long as I have no intention of using my admin tools, I am free to express my opinions, even if it later turns out that other people have different opinions. I'm quite capable of accepting that, sometimes, consensus ends up going differently than how I feel that it should. It happens. It's never bothered me that it does sometimes, because I don't expect that everyone is always going to agree with me. --Jayron32 18:04, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Once again, you're seeing things which simply aren't there, about the fourth time today. I've never accused you of abusing any admin tools (much like myself, we both respect those 100%) but admins should not be promoting a perceived version of the ITN rules which is not reflected in the reality of the ITN rules. Arguing that individuals are not entitled to make representation based on their opinion is wholesale inaccuracy and you should desist from this immediately (in fact, you should have stopped doing it years back). That's the part of being an admin you need to address. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:09, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    You keep bringing up rules. Where in this discussion did I mention rules? --Jayron32 18:27, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Sorry, did anyone say you brought up rules? No, you keep promoting a position which is contrary to the current ruleset at ITN. You know that and it's not admin-worthy. You probably know that too. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:32, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@INeedSupport: Without commenting on the merits of this nomination, I would say that notable laws almost always get more attention the day they are passed and not the day they go into effect. If this is to be posted, the right time would be now. 331dot (talk) 15:02, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Some sources seem to avoid use of 'country' while some use it(HuffPost above). I will put the choice as a potential blurb. 331dot (talk) 15:14, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, the fact that so much trouble is going into trying to create a notable intersection probably demonstrates that it's not such a notable intersection after all. Why not just "26th country in the world", that's absolute and underlines the true notability. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:49, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I added an alternative blurb (III), which I would support if it is in fact cited that Taiwan is the first non-Western location to legalize SSM. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 16:56, 17 May 2019 (UTC) Nevermind, South Africa already does it, but I have c/e'd some of the other blurbs. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 16:59, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Gay rights are infrequently recognized outside the west; that a non-western culture has taken this step is a big deal, and that's not because I think so, but because the sources do; most major news outlets are giving prominence to the fact that Taiwan is the first Asian country to legalize SSM. It's being reported widely not just in the west and in Taiwan, but by news organizations in Hong Kong, Russia, India, Pakistan, and Qatar; in short, it's global news, and we ought to post it. Vanamonde (Talk) 17:30, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I'm seeing a lot of coverage of this and the article quality is good.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 17:32, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per the fact that this is global news (see the sources from Vanamonde above) and we have a good quality article on the topic. Thsmi002 (talk) 18:01, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – Looks like 9:4 in favor with one wait. Suggest post. – Sca (talk) 21:17, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until 24 May How about we wait until the actual day it happens? Kingsif (talk) 23:41, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted There's a consensus here to do so, and waiting until 24 May doesn't appear relevant from those sources. Black Kite (talk) 23:49, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting oppose This has been happening all the time recently, so it's honestly not surprising to me. Yes, it's the first Asian country, but we can essentially categorize the countries however we want and likely be able to create a "first" somewhere else (as in, any country can really be the "first" country to do something). I'm not saying that it's unimportant, just that in the relative scheme of the movement it's not. (Edit: Basically per The Rambling Man, as my reasoning on not posting is basically the same.) Pie3141527182 (talk) 00:35, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    in the relative scheme of the movement it's not - now gay rights supporters in Asia have an example in Asia to point to. Instead of gay rights opponents just pointing to gay rights being Western values. starship.paint (talk) 00:59, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I was thinking of this a bit, but in the end that's sort of a PoV argument. If I were going based off my opinions, I'd probably support this, but the average person is not a gay rights activist nor a gay rights opponent - it doesn't concern them much. Yes, it's a good support for the movement, but by "in the relative scheme of the movement it's not" I'm referring to if a typical person were asked to make a timeline, this would be one of the harder things to find. (And I might have missed the mark, but it's not coming up on the news for me unless I specifically search "Asia" or "Taiwan", though I suppose the former holds some significance.) Pie3141527182 (talk) 01:24, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support - per Sca and Vanamonde. Also - NYT - Asia, a region where such rights have lagged. This is why it's historic. starship.paint (talk) 00:56, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Taiwan isn't a country, it's a breakaway province of the Peoples Republic of China and has no meaningful international recognition. --LaserLegs (talk) 01:31, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Quit trying to stir the pot. WaltCip (talk) 02:09, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This is a legitimate point of contention and NPOV issue; Taiwan's status is disputed and does not have widespread acceptance. I'm not convinced the blurb should state "country". 331dot (talk) 02:38, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Let's just use State (polity), that's what Taiwan's article says. starship.paint (talk) 03:33, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It's okay, it's not like the Chinese can read what we put anyway. --PlasmaTwa2 05:35, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - highly notable policy shift for an Asian country. It may be the 25th to do it, but it's the first in an entire area of the world. That's significant, and it's kind of silly to argue otherwise. --PlasmaTwa2 05:35, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    "country" is purely incorrect and it's incredibly embarrassing that an enclycopedia is sitting with it on the main page. Incredible. And as for "it's the first in an entire area of the world (sic)", that's just silly. Every place is "in an entire area of the world". Get real. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:01, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'd ask you to educate yourself on the meaning of the world country before giving your opinion on the matter (nevertheless, it has been changed to state). Every place is "in an entire area of the world" but not every place is the "first in an entire area of the world". You haven't provided any compelling reason to believe that being the first on a continent of 50+ states or the first state of non-European descent is not notable from an encyclopedic standpoint other than you don't like the item. Go hard, but good luck. --PlasmaTwa2 15:08, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be happy to respond if your comment made sense. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:36, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • pull this should either be posted on the 24th when the law kicks in, or it should have been done two years ago when the measure was first announced. Today is just one minor step on the road, and the hook as stands isn't even accurate. It was a poor choice to post this I'm afraid, there wasn't any consensus to do so.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:44, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As I noted above, new laws get the most attention when they are passed, not when they are proposed or when they take effect. 331dot (talk) 10:48, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Well this one was "passed" on 24 May 2017 when the constitution compelled the legislature to pass said law within two years. That was newsworthy, certainly, but like Brexit this is a story with many parts and this is just a middle one. Either way, there's no Consensus for it to be there so it needs to go, pending further discussion.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:52, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I would respectfully disagree that there was no consensus to post this, in looking at the above discussion. 331dot (talk) 10:57, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No, the court didn't "pass" it, it just set a 2 year countdown. Like most nations, the Court cannot make law it can only clarify it, and must pass the buck to legislation if the current law is insufficient (like in this case). If the legislative body passed a bill the week after the Court decision, then we would have posted it then. But they posted it nearly 2 years after the Court decision, and there's nothing now stopping it from going into effect, so this seems like the right time to post on this matter. --Masem (t) 15:12, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Somewhat ironic) Post-posting support. Although as a supporter of ssm I'm happy that the law has passed, I originally thought of calling for this to be pulled as deeply misleading to our readers, as what happens in Taiwan is unlikely to be much of a precedent for the rest of Asia due to Taiwan's need for Western support in order to survive (in this respect, it would be a bit like describing a similar event in Israel as the first in Asia). But on reflection (and justified per WP:IAR and WP:5P5 if necessary) I thought it might actually be useful to indirectly give at least some of our more skeptical readers at least the chance (by 'reading between the lines') to realize that the only 'country' to have legalized ssm in the continent where a majority of the world's people live is a 'country' that needs Western support to survive. After all we are here to inform our readers, and this may be all the more important when the information runs counter to the impression they may normally get from our Politically Correct media (probably usually including Wikipedia's front page). This may not be the theoretically ideal way of doing this, but then such theoretical ideals rarely or never happen in practice, and objections based on them should thus be ignored. Tlhslobus (talk) 16:17, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Don't pull It's all cool, state, country, who cares. It's a big thing and it's right to post it to ITN. Article is good, news is hot off the press. Since it's already posted, let it stew, why pull it to post it when the news is stale. --qedk (t 桜 c) 18:56, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

May 16

[edit]
May 16, 2019 (2019-05-16) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Business and economy
Disasters and accidents
International relations
Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Mick Micheyl

[edit]
Article: Mick Micheyl (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): http://www.purepeople.com/article/mort-de-mick-micheyl-chanteuse-sculptrice-et-marraine-de-laurent-gerra_a336356/1
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Fully sourced article. MurielMary (talk) 12:24, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ashley Massaro

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Ashley Massaro (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [20]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Good article DannyS712 (talk) 00:48, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted as blurb): I. M. Pei

[edit]
Posted as blurb, consensus unlikely to change. --Tone 16:14, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: I. M. Pei (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Chinese–American architect I. M. Pei dies at the age of 102. (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Since he was a legendary architect, could be a blurb (although was 102). Article is FA. Nohomersryan (talk) 21:26, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Random nothing, they come in threes. Went Franlin, Annan, Vajpayee last time. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:54, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Highly significant in both American and Chinese culture. feminist (talk) 02:46, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Promoted to blurb Stephen 05:09, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb. I'm sure he was important in his field, but nowhere near the level for a blurb. This is what RD exists for.  — Amakuru (talk) 05:52, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-Support blurb Top of his field, article in good shape, of course he's blurb worthy. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 06:46, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb per InedibleHulk. RD was not created to shuttle off unimportant people from ITN, and a blurb is not a special honor granted to Really Important People. The purpose of RD is to avoid an endless string of "So and so died at the age of 98". If a blurb about a death imparts no meaningful information beyond the death itself it doesn't need to be a blurb. Blurbs regarding deaths should be reserved for when some explanation is needed because the death itself bears special attention. Merely dying should, of itself, NOT merit a blurb. Instead, we should only write blurbs for when we need to explain that the death was unusual (perhaps a suicide or plane crash or assassination) or when the aftermath of the death itself needs explaining (large memorial services, major investigations, etc.) If all we have to say is "So and so died because they were old", then that is exactly what RD is for. --Jayron32 13:57, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    No, blurbs are also okay for the following reason as stated in WP:ITNRD: In rare cases, the death of major transformative world leaders in their field may merit a blurb. These cases are rare, and are usually posted on a sui generis basis through a discussion at WP:ITNC that determines there is community consensus that the death merits a blurb. starship.paint (talk) 14:08, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree. It is doubtless that Pei was one of the major transformative world leaders in their field , exactly what the ITN rules state. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:49, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - There appears to be a tendency of, whenever we post a blurb of someone's death (usually a Western figure) whose claim to fame is recognition in pop culture, the standard for a death blurb temporarily becomes lowered for subsequent deaths since it seems trite to equate someone the likes of Doris Day to a world leader like Nelson Mandela or Margaret Thatcher. That being the case, I.M. Pei is a featured article. I also disagree with Jayron that blurbs are chiefly reserved for unusual deaths, since recent examples have clearly shown that it takes more than a death being unusual or unexpected to be blurbed - people usually trot out the Mandela-Thatcher standard whenever something like that is proposed (see Keith Flint). Once again, this is an area of ITN that seems to be an unavoidably grey area, and we're getting no closer to clarity.--WaltCip (talk) 14:12, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    @WaltCip: - would you know how robust the vital article classifications are? Mandela is Level 3, Thatcher, Day and Pei are Level 4, while Bob Hawke is Level 5. starship.paint (talk) 14:40, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    That is meaningless to me, as I'm sure it is to several other editors. The nomination process for "Vital articles" is about as insular a process I've seen on Wikipedia, even more so than ITN.--WaltCip (talk) 14:45, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Indeed. It's hysterical enough to use article quality classes to argue for their inclusion, but to bring this completely isolated "vital article" silliness (controlled by around half a dozen users) to the voting process is beyond words... The Rambling Man (talk) 14:47, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb I am working on death information and talk page to bring everything to ship-shape, this seems like a no-brainer to post to ITN for me. --qedk (t 桜 c) 14:31, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb. We've left the Thatcher-Mandela standard far behind, and should not be quoting it at all any more. Even setting aside the infamous Carrie Fisher blurb, we have in recent times posted Bob Hawke, Christopher Lee, Karl Lagerfeld, Kofi Annan, and Charles Aznavour, all of whom had nowhere near the level of global influence Thatcher or Mandela did; we also posted George H. W. Bush, Aretha Franklin, Prince, David Bowie, and Atal Behari Vajpayee, who had wide name recognition but still were not as transformative as Thatcher or Mandela. That hasn't been our standard for quite a while. Pei certainly meets the broader standard. Vanamonde (Talk) 15:47, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's slightly ridiculous that the top three ITN items are all recent deaths, and then we have another six in the Recent Deaths section itself. We're death obsessed at the moment.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:56, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed; I thought four RD's was the limit. 331dot (talk) 15:58, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Jamil Naqsh

[edit]
Article: Jamil Naqsh (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Dawn
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article well sourced --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 19:50, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I notice he has two External Links galleries, and that's good enough if not fully adequate. I made the article a bit shorter, but it's still OK. Now it teaches a little about post-1989 Pakistani presidential politics, too. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:04, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted as blurb) RD: Bob Hawke

[edit]
Already off the main page. --qedk (t 桜 c) 18:44, 22 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Bob Hawke (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Former Prime Minister of Australia Bob Hawke dies at 89 (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Half decent article, with a tiny number of [citation needed] tags... The Rambling Man (talk) 10:18, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Usually it's done as a Recent Death nom with a suggestion for a blurb as an option.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:37, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Blurb I think he's notable enough for a blurb post. INeedSupport :3 13:39, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Blurb Former head of state of a major nation. Notable enough for blurb. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 15:02, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Blurb Hawke was not merely an Australian Prime Minister, but also the third-longest serving Australian Prime Minister, winning four elections, making him one of Australia's most significant Prime Ministers. During his time in power Australia selected its national anthem, created its medicare system, and passed an act which removed the last vestiges of British authority over Australia. NorthernFalcon (talk) 15:28, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Blurb after a few CNs are fixed (only 2 or 3 , nothing insane). I'm of the general opinion that former elected leaders of at least the G7/G8 or G20 countries should be blurbed on their death, being significant worlds leaders. --Masem (t) 15:50, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The G20 has far less to do with world leaders and their significance than it does with finance ministers' and bank governors' balance sheets. Just a bunch of rich governments, but not even the richest. There really is no solid reason any country's treasurers are or aren't invited to the meetings. If membership counts for anyone in matters of death, it should at least be money-type folk, not leader-type. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:24, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article is of decent quality, in-depth, and well written. Prefer RD over blurb, since we don't have anything more to say than "he died", but will also not stand in the way of a blurb if others feel this article merits one. --Jayron32 15:51, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Blurb he was a significant and important part of the history of beautiful Australia and Oceania and the foreign policy. I'm 26 year old young man and I was almost born under his administration but I was born in 1992 LOL. Totally support blurb. Kind regards. --LLcentury (talk) 16:11, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb. Decent article, high profile figure and we currently have shortage of news on the template. – Ammarpad (talk) 16:16, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose because there are additional citations needed. No opinion on blurb or not. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 18:31, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    @Coffeeandcrumbs: On the balance, there were very few, but the one that were there I have cleaned up. I don't think they should have held up the article, but if you want to hold it up, it was also a very quick fix. Most were for non-essential personal analyses, and removal of those did not alter the narrative at all. There were also a few unneeded cn tags that appeared to be asking for cites for banal and uncontentious things like the number of seats won in elections or the like. It looks like there are no more cn tags. Since all of the cn tags have been dealt with, can you re-assess the article quality? Thanks. --Jayron32 19:06, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    IMO, there is no such thing as "banal and uncontentious things" when BLP's are concerned. If a citation cannot be found then the claim was never notable in the first place. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 19:53, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment to any admin keen enough to help, let's get an image of Bob over to Krinklebot. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:09, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Iván Simonovis

[edit]
No consensus to post, stale. Stephen

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Iván Simonovis (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Venezuelan prisoner Iván Simonovis leaves house arrest. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Venezuelan former police commissioner Iván Simonovis leaves house arrest after fifteen years.
News source(s): The New York Times, Reuters
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Update of the Venezuelan presidential crisis, Simonovis is arguably the best known "political prisoner" in the country. Jamez42 (talk) 15:22, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

May 15

[edit]
May 15, 2019 (2019-05-15) (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
  • Militants kill at least 17 Niger Armed Forces troops in an ambush near the Malian border. Another 11 soldiers are missing; six others have been evacuated to a hospital. No group has claimed responsibility. (BBC News) (Reuters)

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

May 14

[edit]
May 14, 2019 (2019-05-14) (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Grumpy Cat

[edit]
Article: Grumpy Cat (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: All memes will be grumpy today... SoWhy 10:27, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Alice Rivlin

[edit]
Article: Alice Rivlin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NPR, WaPo
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American economist, former vice chair of the Federal Reserve, dies at age 88. Article needs some work. Davey2116 (talk) 01:13, 15 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Tim Conway

[edit]
Article: Tim Conway (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): MSN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: The usual sourcing problems with American television stars. Masem (t) 16:58, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment This one is going to need some work before it can be posted. However, if/when it is brought up to scratch, it might be worth a blurb. I don't want to turn ITN into an obit page but Conway was a comedic legend. [Memory eternal.] -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:45, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW, I'm not sure he's quite blurb-level. A famliar name & face in the '60s, but probably not a household name like Doris Day. (OK, another precinct heard from.) – Sca (talk) 21:20, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

May 13

[edit]
May 13, 2019 (2019-05-13) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Hu Jinqing

[edit]
Article: Hu Jinqing (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Beijing News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Well sourced article on a notable animator, director, and pioneer in Chinese paper cutting. Thsmi002 (talk) 12:13, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Unita Blackwell

[edit]
Article: Unita Blackwell (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Mississippi Today
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Good article. Every section is well sourced. --PootisHeavy (talk) 03:22, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) World Record solo dive

[edit]
Consensus will not emerge to post this, despite COI attempts to generate excitement. Stephen 02:39, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Victor Vescovo (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Victor Vescovo sets a new world record for a deepest human-occupied dive under the ocean, reaching the bottom of Challenger Deep. (Post)
News source(s): https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/victor-vescovo-deepest-dive-pacific/index.html
Credits:
Nominator's comments: This is a pro-forma posting of a malformed nomination. I just cleaned it up for the person who nominated it. I have not reviewed the article as yet. Jayron32 17:30, 13 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Challenger Deep should be groomed and prepared as a major news item. A new world record solo dive to the bottom of the Challenger Deep in the Mariana Trench, part of a series of *five* dives below 10,800m, including two world record setting solo dives by Victor Vescovo, was announced today. See https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-48230157 , https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/victor-vescovo-deepest-dive-pacific/index.html and other media as they come online. For background, please read Vescovo's blog post at https://fivedeeps.com/home/expedition/pacific/live/ which recounts the series of dives in Challenger Deep and Sirena Deep. The implications of this new world record mean a whole series of pages are affected, see:

Extended content

The official press release from the expedition was made available this morning, see https://tritonsubs.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/FDE-Challenger-Release-FINAL.pdf and Victor Vescovo and Patrick Lahey are doing press at the Explorer's Club in New York today. I anticipate major media coverage in the coming days for references, as well as free/CC images. Due to WP:COI I cannot do this myself, as I have been the general counsel for Triton Submarines for ten plus years, since shortly after I left WMF. --Brad Patrick (talk) 15:10, 13 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted blurb) RD: Doris Day

[edit]
Article: Doris Day (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Hollywood actress and singer Doris Day dies aged 97. (Post)
News source(s): NBC, AP
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: B-class, looks good, minor cn problems should be easily fixable. Update done by a variety of users. SoWhy 13:08, 13 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

All done. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 15:34, 13 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Doris Kappelhoff, that's who. Everyone knows that. – Sca (talk) 13:56, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I have replaced the orange tag with a CN. The orange tag was overkill. That said, we still have an entirely unsourced section for her discography. That really needs to be fixed. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:14, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This just shows in stark terms how quality controls in ITN don't make sense. Banedon (talk) 12:56, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
-ography sections of bios tend to be a bunch of non-notable (not blue linked) works, or where the person has a cameo or guest role which is not 100% obvious from looking at the lede of the indicated work. Here, for Day, the albums are all bluelinked, and it is 100% clear that these are all albums featuring Day going by their lede. Ideally, they should be sourced, but we're begging a source for the obvious and if push came to shove, copying one source from each blue linked is possible. --Masem (t) 13:48, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
-ography sections are implicitly sourced to their own credits. Presumably, a record album with Doris Day's name printed on it is a reliable published source that Doris Day did actually record the album. With her name on it. --Jayron32 16:39, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
We just comment out the content, or WP:CFORK it to a different article to get around sourcing issues. I've raised it, no one cared. Open an RFC at WT:ITN if you see the need to make a change, this isn't the place. --LaserLegs (talk) 15:33, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing was forked since the nomination was proposed.[21] Sources were requested for the -ography sections and they were provided. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 21:43, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note to anyone thinking of pulling: improving this article is preferable to protect Wikipedia reputation. Doris Day Wikipedia page defaced with graphic image after her death. Sure, the item was posted prematurely by two admins that seem to ignore ITN standards but pulling it would be an even worse move. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 21:54, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I tried to argue for ography sections to be reffed few weeks ago but was told it's not a requirement, even though the lack of source means we have to do original research in choosing what to put in. So that's the consensus it would seem.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:00, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
There I fixed it the same way we handle this for all the other dead celebs with unreferneced bodies of work that we want to railroad onto the main page. You're welcome. --LaserLegs (talk) 00:32, 15 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I have returned it and added back the source that was unnecessarily removed. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 02:11, 15 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
There is no need to "fix" this citation problem: linking out to articles in lists like this does not require a citation. See (e.g.) Slayer#Discography also WP:BLUE and WP:LOW. Honestly, guys. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 03:12, 15 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
See also WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. The fact that some other articles don't cite the discography section doesn't mean that's the correct thing to do. Although this is more about standalone list pages then embedded lists, there is guidance at Wikipedia:Stand-alone_lists#Selection_criteria which instructs us to define selection criteria for the list and then "it is especially important that inclusion be based on reliable sources given with inline citations for each item". So although the works themselves provide a cite for their existence, reliable sourcing is needed to establish which entries to select and which not to select. In the case of Doris Day the decision Coffeeandcrumbs made was to list all albums in the article, and source that list from AllMusic. That is the correct thing to do, and ensures that (a) we are not listing things that are not regarded by reliable sources as albums, and (b) that we don't miss any. I think some sort of sitewide discussion may be required here because this issue is coming up repeatedly. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 06:41, 15 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If I don't have a citation for something, I should not add it to the article. It reasonably follows that if someone else adds uncited content and I cannot cite it myself with reasonable effort, it should be struck. Seems the simplest way to address this. GreatCaesarsGhost 11:12, 15 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

May 12

[edit]
May 12, 2019 (2019-05-12) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

(Closed) 2019 Indian Premier League Final

[edit]
Stale, unimproved. Stephen 00:01, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2019 Indian Premier League Final (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In cricket, the Indian Premier League concludes with Mumbai Indians defeating Chennai Super Kings in the final. (Post)
News source(s): Khaleej Times
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Indian cricket league. Updates look good. Sherenk1 (talk) 03:34, 13 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) 2018-19 Premier League

[edit]
Article: 2018–19 Premier League (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In association football, the English Premier League concludes with Manchester City winning the title. (Post)
News source(s): Phil McNulty (12 May 2019). "Brighton 1-4 Man City". BBC Sport.
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Concluded today, and is listed at WP:ITN/R. Probably needs some citations etc. to get it up to scratch, but is not in terrible shape.  — Amakuru (talk) 20:05, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

May 11

[edit]
May 11, 2019 (2019-05-11) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Rong Baisheng

[edit]
Article: Rong Baisheng (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Paper
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article is fully referenced. Zanhe (talk) 06:30, 13 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Peggy Lipton

[edit]
Article: Peggy Lipton (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: She made some damn good coffee. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:37, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Silver King (wrestler)

[edit]
Article: Silver King (wrestler) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Record
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Died after suffering a heart attack during a match, has wrestled all over the world for 34 years. MPJ-DK (talk) 23:42, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There are number of notable people and entities with that name. So yeah, we add something to article names to separate the different entities. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:13, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Already done by Bagumba. (Thanks.) -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:15, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

2019 South African general election

[edit]
Article: 2019 South African general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The governing African National Congress (ANC) returns to office in South Africa's parliamentary election, but with a reduced majority. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Looks like a win for ANC. Work still left to do on article (prose and updates) Sherenk1 (talk) 12:07, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Yogesh Chander Deveshwar

[edit]
Article: Yogesh Chander Deveshwar (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Khaleej Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Chairman of ITC Limited. Sherenk1 (talk) 07:57, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Gianni De Michelis

[edit]
Article: Gianni De Michelis (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Ansa (In Italian)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former Italian Minister of Foreign Affairs. Poydoo (talk) 22:20, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

May 10

[edit]
May 10, 2019 (2019-05-10) (Friday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

International relations

Law and crime

(Closed) RD: Anatol Herzfeld

[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Anatol Herzfeld (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BR
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Known simply as Anatol, he was a sculptor and policeman, performed a spectacular action with his professor Joseph Beuys. - There's much more in German, if someone wants to translate an act of love. Not every work is sourced (yet), but they are big and pictured, and it could be done if needed. The anoouncement of his death came yesterday. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:17, 13 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Venezuelan presidential crisis

[edit]
No consensus to post. Stephen 06:21, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2019 Venezuelan presidential crisis (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Venezuela National Assembly Vice President, Edgar Zambrano, is indicted and arrested on charges of "betraying the homeland" and "instigating an insurrection" (Post)
Credits:
Nominator's comments: The Vice President of the National Assembly has been arrested, which has been condemned by the Venezuelan opposition, the Lima Group and the European Union, while the Supreme Tribunal ordered the prosecution of seven members of the National Assembly, three of which ought temporary refuge in foreign embassies. Meanwhile, National Assembly deputy Gilber Caro continues to be disappeared, his whereabouts have been unknown for two weeks now; there's a march in Caracas summoned for tomorrow and both regional and international bodies have convened sessions to discuss the recent events. I was too late to see the removal nomination, it is an understatement to say that nothing has happened and that the article has not been updated. --(talk) 10:49, 10 May 2019 (UTC) Jamez42 (talk) 10:49, 10 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
AP, in a story filed about 21:15 Friday, has Guaidó "promising to persevere." Sounds like more of the same. – Sca (talk) 21:47, 10 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Stale) RD: Alfredo Pérez Rubalcaba

[edit]
Article: Alfredo Pérez Rubalcaba (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Spain mourns the death of the politician that leaded the end of the terrorist group ETA. Being one of the most prominent politicians in Spanish democracy, he must be listed here. Alsoriano97 (talk) 14:22, 10 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

May 9

[edit]
May 9, 2019 (2019-05-09) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture
  • The Reserve Bank of Australia confirms it issued approximately 46 million new Australian $50 notes in late 2018 with a typo in the background fine print: "responsibility" is misspelled as "responsibilty", the third "i" is missing. The mistake appears three times on the note and is extremely small requiring magnification to see. Part of the rollout of Australia's redesigned currency, the A$50 notes feature the first female member of an Australian parliament, social reformer Edith Cowan. (BBC News) (The Age)

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Health and environment

Politics and elections

(Stale) RD: Brian Walden

[edit]
Article: Brian Walden (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 The Rambling Man (talk) 15:59, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oh I am sorry I guess you cannot take it but easily and repeatedly dish it out? You didn't claim anything or apparently, check anything. MPJ-DK (talk) 19:10, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have a clue what you're talking about. When I oppose nominations because they're poorly referenced, I simply state they are poorly referenced, I don't say provocative crap like "surprisingly this nom by X is...", so try not to repeat that in future. And yes, you can read, i.e. "I didn't claim it was up to scratch, did I?" Deary me. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:15, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You are the one who said you had no clue, not me. And it is surprising that someone who so zealously "talks the talk" does not also "walk the walk", just stating a fact. MPJ-DK (talk) 19:19, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No, you're stating fiction, pure and simple. I review ITN candidates and give an objective opinion. I don't deliberately set out to provoke nominators making good faith nominations. And I still don't have a clue what you're so butt hurt about. Is it something else I've said to you? Oh dear. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:21, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You must be very blissful, you go right ahead and enjoy that. I've said my oppose. MPJ-DK (talk) 19:24, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I was blissful until your objectionable interaction. Cheers, hope you get over it. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:32, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose – I don't get what is "surprising" about the nom, either; there is nothing wrong with bringing not-yet-ready articles to ITN/C, as the increased exposure here often helps bring extra eyes to the article. Many articles that start out in ITN/C as being inadequate end up being greatly improved and posted. Having said that, the article looks much improved but the "Political career" section is completely unreferenced. –FlyingAce✈hello 13:16, 13 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Yuan Baohua

[edit]
Article: Yuan Baohua (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Paper
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article is fully sourced. Zanhe (talk) 00:13, 10 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Freddie Starr

[edit]
Article: Freddie Starr (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article isn't in tip-top shape, but it's being heavily edited and is improving. Thryduulf (talk) 22:38, 9 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

May 8

[edit]
May 8, 2019 (2019-05-08) (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Jens Beutel

[edit]
Article: Jens Beutel (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Mainz
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Mayor of Mainz, the state capital of Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany. - Found as a sad tagged stub. It's still not much, but a start. Need to go out. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:06, 10 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I added from more obits. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:31, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thai election results

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: 2019 Thai general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Official results of the 2019 Thai general election are announced, with Pheu Thai Party winning the most seats but unlikely to be able to form a government. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In the Thai general election, the Pheu Thai Party (chairwoman Sudarat Keyuraphan pictured) win the most seats in the House of Representatives.
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Previous nom in March was closed as to wait for official results. Here they are now. (Though the more newsworthy formation of government will probably happen over the following weeks.) Paul_012 (talk) 21:01, 9 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Coffeeandcrumbs: Can you clarify your stance further? It seems confusing that you say that we should report the election results and not the formation of government afterwards, but at the same time opposing a report on the election results... – PhilipTerryGraham (talk · articles · reviews) 10:45, 10 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As they said, there are some citations missing in the article; it cannot be posted until that is addressed. Elections are what is ITNR, not the formation of governments; if you feel the government formation is notable enough for posting, you are free to nominate that. 331dot (talk) 10:48, 10 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Sprent Dabwido

[edit]
Article: Sprent Dabwido (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Former Nauru president Sprent Dabwido dies aged 46 - SBS
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Though President of a very small nation I think that Presidents deserve RD. – LLcentury (talk) 20:06 UTC, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: David Montgomery (baseball)

[edit]
Article: David Montgomery (baseball) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBS Philly
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 16:00, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

May 7

[edit]
May 7, 2019 (2019-05-07) (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Closed) STEM School Highlands Ranch Shooting

[edit]
There is no way that consensus will emerge to post, as school shootings in the US are tragically common. We don't need to leave this open for everyone to state the same opinion. Stephen 05:47, 10 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: STEM School Highlands Ranch shooting (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ School shooting in Highlands Ranch, Colorado kills one, injures eight (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: While the casualty rate was (thankfully) lower for this shooting than for some others in recent American history, it looks like this was largely due to the heroic efforts of some of the students who assailed the shooter, probably saving the lives of many of their fellow students. One of those who assailed the shooter, Kendrick Castillo, was killed in the process and the only student killed during the shooting. Even if this article were deemed insufficiently notable for inclusion as an ITN blurb, it certainly merits inclusion here in the nomination list and in the 2019 history article. Ryan Reeder (talk) 04:05, 10 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) RD: Te Wharehuia Milroy

[edit]
Stale --DannyS712 (talk) 21:19, 13 May 2019 (UTC) (non-admin closure)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Te Wharehuia Milroy (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): RNZ; Māori TV; NZ Herald
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Highly esteemed expert in te reo Māori. —Hugh (talk) 01:15, 9 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Georg Katzer

[edit]
Article: Georg Katzer (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Tagesspiegel
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Pioneer of electronic music in the GDR, music in many genres performed at notable locations. Professor, also music organisation work in East, then united Germany, many awards, including national. - I found the article tagged for multiple issues, - that's gone. Much more detail of both life and work is in the sources, - feel free. - Other work for me. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:29, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose most of the literature is without reference. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:42, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree with you that a Bibliography should be sourced (even though others don't). I don't think that applies here since none of the items appear to claim that they were written by Katzer. I think the "Literature" section is a left over from a translation from de.wiki. En.wiki would call that section Further reading and it belongs below References. Requiring verification for Further reading would be unreasonable requirement at ITN. That is IMHO.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 12:02, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    The Literature section - which is probably meant - is not a leftover from translation, but collected by User:Jerome Kohl (who is a composer an expert) who wrote the article (see 2010 version), and it's the best collection of literature about the man I have seen, more substantial than in German. We can of course sacrifice it (temporarily) for ITN's sake, but I believe that's no service to the reader. It's only for experts from the start (all in German), and they may be delighted. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:14, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    By all means keep it, but it needs to be verifiable. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:16, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Going after these special music papers of 2010 is exactly what I have NO time for. AGF? It's Further reading now. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:28, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    FWIW, I can verify that the New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians article (the sole inline citation until very recently, now removed for some reason) not only exists and is in English rather than German, but that New Grove is not considered by many people to be a "self-published source". In fact, I cannot imagine how that tag got put on the article in the first place, since there is not a single self-published source in the list. Oh, yes, thank you, Gerda for mentioning my name in connection with this article, but I am a music theorist and musicologist, not a composer.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 18:48, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I am sorry that I didn't recognise the inline refs as refs at all, just something in brackets. I don't think to establish that rather uncommon style for the new references is a good idea. What do others think? Same for removing an infobox. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:33, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – Looks good to me. AGF for German language sources. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 12:02, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – Ditto. Sieht mir angemessen aus. – Sca (talk) 12:22, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 23:31, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Seymour Nurse

[edit]
Article: Seymour Nurse (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Cricinfo
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: West Indies Test cricketer and a Wisden Cricketer of the Year (67). Article looks in decent shape too. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 10:56, 7 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 13:02, 7 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jean Vanier

[edit]
Article: Jean Vanier (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48186136
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Renowned philosopher and founder of L'Arche international charity. Article in good shape for appearance on front page. John Lunney (talk) 08:33, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

May 6

[edit]
May 6, 2019 (2019-05-06) (Monday)
Armed conflict and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents
  • A fuel tanker lorry overturns and explodes near the airport in Niamey, Niger, killing at least 58 people. (BBC News)

Health and environment
International relations

Politics and elections

Sports

(Closed) 2019 U.S. Presidential Medal of Freedom

[edit]
Consensus to post will not develop. --Tone 10:29, 7 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Articles: Presidential Medal of Freedom (talk · history · tag) and Tiger Woods (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ U.S. President Trump awards the Presidential Medal of Freedom, one of the highest civilian awards in the United States, to Tiger Woods (pictured) for his accomplishments in professional golf and charitable work. (Post)
News source(s): (CBS Sports) (Golf Channel)
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: The Youngest American to receive Presidential Medal of Freedom to date. The 4th Golfer in American history ever to receive Presidential Medal of Freedom. Great comeback story and great accomplishments in Golf and Charitable work. Inspiration to many in America and globally. Best Regards VaultGold (talk) 01:09, 7 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) 2019 World Snooker Championship

[edit]
Proposed image
Articles: 2019 World Snooker Championship (talk · history · tag) and Judd Trump (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Judd Trump (pictured) wins the World Snooker Championship after defeating John Higgins in the final. (Post)
News source(s): BBC Sport
Credits:

One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Let me know if you require any more information. Great championship, great final, and well deserved. WP:ITN/R article, should be fully sourced and well written (hopefully) Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:25, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Question: Should the final's score (18-9) appear in the blurb (as in 'after defeating John Higgins 18-9 in the final.')? That would give the reader a quick overview of how things turned out. Tlhslobus (talk) 19:23, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, we don't post scores. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:30, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Global Assessment Report on Biodiversity

[edit]
Articles: Intergovernmental_Science-Policy_Platform_on_Biodiversity_and_Ecosystem_Services#Paris_2019 (talk · history · tag) and Global Assessment Report on Biodiversity and Ecosystem Services (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Published main report based on the systematic review of about 15,000 scientific and government sources, warns about a historic mass extinction within the Biodiversity. Up to one million living species are endangered. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Published main report on which 400 experts from 50 countries have been working for 3 years , warns about a historic mass extinction within the Biodiversity. According to the 1800page-report, up to one million living species are endangered.
Alternative blurb II: ​ One million species are at risk of extinction according to a UN-report (by IPBES).
Alternative blurb III: ​ According to a United Nations report, due to human activity, the Earth's biodiversity has suffered a catastrophic decline that is unprecedented in human history.
News source(s): AP News, The New York Times, National Geographic, BBC, The Guardian, The Independent
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Important topic LennBr (talk) 20:00, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You hit the nail on the head. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:02, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Break
  • Support Alt 3 – A new article was created per my suggestion and I have made some improvements to it. I have suggested a blurb to use and also boldly modified the nomination. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 06:41, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Alt 3, excellent work! --Tone 07:38, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - good work, and I think ALT3 is almost there. One question though - does the list of "further statements" count as a copyvio? Looking at the German source, [23] the bullet points seem to be almost word-for-word copied from the translated version of that. Although they're announcements of the report, it's arguable that the precise wording is still the newspaper's and therefore should be paraphrased rather than copied? Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 10:09, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Answer - indeed, the bullet points were nearly copyied and then extended by other statements from the Source. It can be put into context writing: "according to the source". Howeever, a other argument could be, that those statements were extracted from the Global-Assessment-Report. @Amakuru: LennBr (talk) 10:25, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Still weak oppose Obviously we still have some article problems - near copy-taking of this is not good even if it is the bullet points. But the larger issue I have is this is the trimmed version of the report for policy makers so it is biased in one direction. I realize the UN made big fanfare of this version, that this summary version is not likely so skewed to be over-emphasizing facts or trying to employ doomsday scare tactics, but we really should wait for the full report to be released so that 1) it can be linked and 2) we can use additional judgement of other subject matter experts to comment about it. But I doubt that point will be ITN when that's released, hence a weak oppose. I would support on the basis of a good quality article that has no copyvio issues for this summary. (BTW is it just me or do we not even link to the summary in that article?) --Masem (t) 14:05, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Alt 3 - All of the previous concerns seem to be assuaged.The lorax (talk) 02:41, 9 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Seems the issues have been fixed, ready to post. I'd just like to reformulate the blurb to be in line with ITN style. What about "The UN release a report stating ..." ? --Tone 06:49, 9 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I now regret using BrEng in the article. Just kidding! "The United Nations report that due to human activity the Earth's biodiversity has suffered a catastrophic decline that is unprecedented in human history." --- Coffeeandcrumbs 10:07, 9 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Good :) Posting. --Tone 12:06, 9 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
After-posting weak oppose Not sure I would call this a consensus to post ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 14:40, 9 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) New royal baby in Britain

[edit]
(non-admin closure) Consensus to post will not develop. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 14:37, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: First Child of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Meghan, Duchess of Sussex gives birth to the first child of Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex, the seventh in line of succession to the British throne. (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Mega-huge news. It's the first interracial baby in the monarchy's recent history. WaltCip (talk) 13:58, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Removed) Ongoing removal: 2019 Venezuelan presidential crisis

[edit]
Article: 2019 Venezuelan presidential crisis (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)

Nominator's comments: This got a bump in the headlines last week, but the coup failed and the uprising never happened. "Guaidó acknowledged he had received insufficient military backing". Protests and strikes have been going on in Venezuela since the crisis started in 2010, even under Chavez, these events predate the last election substantially.Per Wikipedia:In_the_news#Ongoing_section "articles are NOT posted to ongoing merely because they are related to events that are still happening. In order to be posted to ongoing, the article needs to be regularly updated with new, pertinent information.". The last pertinent development in the presidential crisis was the failure of Guaidos uprising last week. Time for it to come out. LaserLegs (talk) 10:27, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Do Brits really have names like Francis Fortescue &c - ?? – Sca (talk) 21:00, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oh yes, my real name is Sir Charles Peddington-Smythe. And as far as I know, TRM is called Henry Albert Cockburn Rutherford. No Dick Smiths around here, thank you very much.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:06, 7 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Some really do (and really do inflict names on their offspring such as Sixtus Dominic Boniface Christopher, Peter Theodore Alphege, Mary Anne Charlotte Emma, Thomas Wentworth Somerset Dunstan, Anselm Charles Fitzwilliam and Alfred Wulfric Leyson Pius Rees-Mogg), but TRM above is quoting the fictional Francis Urquhart, whose name is meant to be less significant than his initials - I thanked TRM for that post (which was in reply to mine), perhaps unwisely so, as it may or may not have been intended as an imaginative, amusing, and (perhaps most importantly) deniable way to tell me 'FU' (or at least it might be if I were allowed to ignore WP:AGF, which I'm not, so I won't). Tlhslobus (talk) 14:26, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No, don't be silly, it was nothing to do with "fuck you", it would have be FY, right? No, it was just that conspiracy thing in (the original) House of Cards where FU would tell people that. Much better than the US remake, and fewer criminals involved. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:08, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Gaza–Israel clashes (May 2019)

[edit]
Article: Gaza–Israel clashes (May 2019) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 23 people have died after three days of cross-border violence between Israel and militants on the Gaza strip. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ At least 2629 people are killed in cross-border clashes between Gaza and Israel.
News source(s): BBC, NYT
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Recent clashes. In the news. Sherenk1 (talk) 03:32, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This seems to me like a good thing to put in ongoing. StudiesWorld (talk) 13:04, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

May 5

[edit]
May 5, 2019 (2019-05-05) (Sunday)
Armed conflict and attacks
Disasters and accidents
International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

RD: Norma Miller

[edit]
Article: Norma Miller (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): USA Today, New York Times, Washington Post
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article is fairly awful to be honest, this one is a pretty long shot. -A lad insane (Channel 2) 01:23, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Aeroflot Flight 1492

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Aeroflot Flight 1492 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Aeroflot Flight 1492 (aircraft involved pictured) suffers an in-flight fire and crash lands at Sheremetyevo International Airport, Moscow, killing at least 41 of the 79 people on board. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Aeroflot Flight 1492 (aircraft involved pictured) crash lands at Sheremetyevo International Airport, Moscow, killing at least 41 of the 79 people on board.
News source(s): (Aviation 24), AP, BBC, Guardian
Credits:

Article updated

 Mjroots (talk) 17:36, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

May 4

[edit]
May 4, 2019 (2019-05-04) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Science and technology

Sport

(Posted) Kentucky Derby

[edit]
Article: 2019 Kentucky Derby (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In horse racing, Country House wins the Kentucky Derby after Maximum Security, who crossed the line first, is disqualified. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In horse racing, Country House wins the Kentucky Derby after Maximum Security, who crossed the line first, is disqualified for interference, a first in the Derby's history.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In horse racing, Country House wins the Kentucky Derby after Maximum Security, who crossed the line first, is controversially disqualified for interference.
News source(s): New York Times, AP, Lexington
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Not sure exactly how to incorporate the controversy in the blurb, so feel free to suggest alternative blurbs. Andise1 (talk) 23:39, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Rachel Held Evans

[edit]
Article: Rachel Held Evans (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Christian writer dies tragically young. Article is in pretty good shape. Teemu08 (talk) 19:11, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Open to supporting She was well-known in progressive Christian circles.-TenorTwelve (talk) 03:47, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This article is eligible to post. The discussion is only on if it's of sufficient quality, not if it's worthy of front page status. Sir Joseph (talk) 04:22, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Prospero Nograles

[edit]
Article: Prospero Nograles (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Rappler
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former House Speaker (2008-2010) under the administration of Gloria Macapagal Arroyo BSrap (talk) 05:55, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Vajiralongkorn crowned

[edit]
Article: Vajiralongkorn (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Vajiralongkorn is crowned King of Thailand (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The coronation of Vajiralongkorn is held in Thailand.
Alternative blurb II: ​ The coronation of Vajiralongkorn is held in Thailand.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

 Banedon (talk) 10:15, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Ammarpad: I think you meant Alt 2. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 10:07, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No. I mean the first Alternative blurb: The coronation of Vajiralongkorn is held in Thailand. – Ammarpad (talk) 14:39, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

May 3

[edit]
May 3, 2019 (2019-05-03) (Friday)
Business and finance

Disasters and accidents
Politics and elections

Sports

(Posted) RD: Goro Shimura

[edit]
Article: Goro Shimura (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): "Professor Emeritus Goro Shimura 1930—2019". Princeton University Department of Mathematics. 3 May 2019. Retrieved 3 May 2019.
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: One of the most important mathematicians of the 20th century with key roles in the proof of Fermat's Last Theorem (via the modularity theorem) and the Langlands program (via Shimura varieties). — MarkH21 (talk) 10:21, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Cyclone Fani

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Cyclone Fani (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A powerful cyclone has slammed into India's eastern coastline, killing at least 30 people and bringing torrential rains and winds of up to 200 km/h (125mph). (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Cyclone Fani makes landfall in eastern India, causing at least 30 deaths.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Cyclone Fani impacts India and Bangladesh, killing at least 50 people.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: 3 people killed. Epic storm. Sherenk1 (talk) 14:49, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Three deaths is really not a lot for a substantial storm, but it seems damage is still being assessed so more may be found. Not immediately opposing but if only three deaths are the major impact, given that millions had to evacuate, this is rather small. --Masem (t) 15:12, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait I think it's a bit too early to post it for now. There will be more information about the damages and the casualties that the storm will occur later on. INeedSupport :3 15:40, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This would also require the blurb to change too. INeedSupport :3 16:51, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'll change my !vote to Support due to the destruction and death the storm occurred. Impact section of the article needs some work, but it'll be expanded soon as more information about the storm's destruction is published. INeedSupport :3 02:01, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I will also support the alternate blurb, since the word "slammed" is not formal. INeedSupport :3 13:30, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait and oppose the blurb Too little is known regarding the actual impacts as it just made landfall earlier today. Additionally, I feel it would be better to focus on the deaths and damages rather than the landfall intensity. However, this is the most intense storm in the basin since Cyclone Gonu in '07 (strength is measured by pressure). Also, it is better to use the actual name of the cyclone when referring to it. NoahTalk 16:26, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    You need to basically say "Cyclone Fani, the strongest storm to hit the region in X years, kills Y people and causes significant damage in Z areas." Also... get an image of it. NoahTalk 21:36, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait for now Support More time is needed to understand the impact of the storm. The death count has already gone up since the nomination (3 to 8). I wouldn't oppose on quality at this time (as all of the expected subsections of any tropical cyclone article are present and contain a substantial amount of sourced material). I will support on both notability and on quality if it is later revealed thatthe storm's impact was any more significant than it is currently believed to be. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 19:13, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Now 30 people killed Sherenk1 (talk) 12:36, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Changed my !vote accordingly Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 19:14, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I'm slightly concerned about the lack of sources in the lead. It's basically a rehash of the meteorological summary. Also, for "significant death toll" (whatever the hell that means) the only details are "At least 16 people were killed in Odisha by the storm. and 14 people were reportedly killed in eight districts of Bangladesh." which does not strike me as "minimally comprehensive". --LaserLegs (talk) 20:07, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    It's common for leads of tropical cyclone articles to contain summaries of the major sections (being the meteorological history & impact sections) without the sources being contained in the lead itself. For comparison, here is a GA-class tropical cyclone article. The Cyclone Fani article is actually in rather impressive shape. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 20:33, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I realize that, but I was still trying to reconcile facts in the lead about when it hit peak intensity with referenced sources in the body and I couldn't (the body says it hit cat 5 on 2 May, but the statement "peak intensity" isn't there -- maybe it doesn't have to be). Either way, the impact section is too thin. --LaserLegs (talk) 20:38, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    It actually says it was just below the category 5 equivalent, which is correct (it peaked at 155 mph one minute sustained, and anything above 156 would be categorized as a category 5, making it a very high end category 4). Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 20:42, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    JTWC winds are not official for any basin, so the Saffir-Simpson scale isn't exactly relevant to Fani. ~ KN2731 {t · c} 04:21, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    The above discussion was not stating that the winds are relevant to Fani, but rather a response to LL's initial confusion regarding the article (his post read that "the body says it hit cat 5" which is not a correct statement) Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 20:23, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I have never had to source anything in the lead. I have written many GAs and a FA without sourced info in the lead. General rule of thumb is that the information must be sourced in the body of the article. If that is true, lead sources aren’t required. Yes, the impact needs expanded and I will work on it when I get home. I do still oppose the blurb as it isn’t that great. NoahTalk 21:12, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    WP:LEDECITE Ledes do not need citations as long as the info is supported by citations in the body, except when direct quotes are cited. --Masem (t) 23:52, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, I know that thank you, and I couldn't reconcile basic facts like "peak intensity" from the lead in the body. Never mind, this has "significant deaths" go ahead and rush it to the MP. --LaserLegs (talk) 00:37, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Significant death toll and much greater economic impact. The referencing is good enough in my view to warrant a blurb. Capitalistroadster (talk) 00:28, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment added image c:File:Fani_2019-05-02_1657Z.jpg which shows the cyclone just after peak intensity with the Indian coast visible on the left side of the image. ~ KN2731 {t · c} 03:57, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose current blurb as being slightly sensational (is "slammed into" absolutely necessary?) and providing incorrect wind speeds - the Indian Meteorological Department, which is in charge of issuing advisories on Fani, states that 3-minute sustained winds at landfall were 185 km/h (source, official twitter account). Support alt blurb but could be more specific about landfall location. ~ KN2731 {t · c} 04:21, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support and offered second alt that's straightforward and non-sensational. Notability is an easy pass, article quality is more than sufficient. Previous opposes should be outdated at this point ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 15:23, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Looks good now, posting. --Tone 15:36, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Transmission of HIV/AIDS

[edit]
Consensus will not develop to post. Stephen 23:01, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles: HIV (talk · history · tag) and Management of HIV/AIDS (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ HIV-positive individuals with an undetectable viral load cannot transit the virus through condomless sex (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ HIV is untransmittable through condomless sex if the HIV-positive partner has an undetectable viral load
Alternative blurb II: ​ HIV is untransmittable through condomless sex when the infected partner has an undetectable viral load
Alternative blurb III: ​ HIV is effectively untransmittable through condomless sex if the HIV-positive partner has an undetectable viral load
News source(s): Article in The Guardian by Hannah Devlin (dated 3 May 2019) quotes the lead author saying that "[o]ur findings provide conclusive evidence for gay men that the risk of HIV transmission with suppressive ART [antiretroviral therapy] is zero. Our findings support the message of the international U=U campaign that an undetectable viral load makes HIV untransmittable. This powerful message can help end the HIV pandemic by preventing HIV transmission, and tackling the stigma and discrimination that many people with HIV face. Increased efforts must now focus on wider dissemination of this powerful message and ensuring that all HIV-positive people have access to testing, effective treatment, adherence support and linkage to care to help maintain an undetectable viral load." The findings were just published online in The Lancet at doi:10.1016/S0140-6736(19)30418-0.
Credits:

Both articles updated
Nominator's comments: As the changes that I have made to both articles show (diff of update to HIV and diff of update to Management of HIV/AIDS), this conclusion is stated clearly in the publication in The Lancet and builds on other studies. The current report focuses on male-to-male transmission but the heterosexual aspect has been studied as well, so the case is clear for both genders. This is not just mainstream media going over the top on a scientific / medical study, the study itself states that the "results provide a similar level of evidence on viral suppression and HIV transmission risk for gay men to that previously generated for heterosexual couples and suggest that the risk of HIV transmission in gay couples through condomless sex when HIV viral load is suppressed is effectively zero." EdChem (talk) 05:55, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

comment This certainly is big. We should be very cautious with medical/health claims however (as you indicate), especially when "proving a negative" is involved. The research indicates that the study suggests the transmission rate goes effectively to zero. The above blurbs all state it as a fact (and facts, rather than news are also not suitable for ITN). Thus, despite making the blurb less sexy I would go for something like

  • Lancet study suggests HIV is effectively untransmittable through condomless sex if the HIV-positive partner has an undetectable viral load

L.tak (talk) 06:29, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This point is taken up in the consensus statement supported by 850+ HIV/AIDS organisations... I don't mind the addition of "effectively", but I do think attributing it to the Lancet makes t sound like a result from one study when it is actually the culmination of a whole series of investigations. Added as alt blurb 3 without the starting bit. EdChem (talk) 06:48, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, statistical result affecting tiny fraction of HIV positive persons worldwide. I doubt that the source even passes WP:MEDRS to be on Wikipedia at all. Abductive (reasoning) 06:44, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This is not news. That HAART renders HIV effectively non-transmissible has been known for years. TompaDompa (talk) 10:45, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, per the above posts. Trivial at best, but most people who are aware of the disease already know it does not transmit by traditional means like many diseases. 70.14.46.83 (talk) 11:50, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, and possibly modify along the lines of L.tak's suggestion. Here's another source: [28]. Thsmi002 (talk) 12:08, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Below the radar. Sca (talk) 13:17, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose A news blurb cannot merely state a fact about the natural world, because such facts are not "new." We must include a clause such as "A study shows" or "NIH announces" to convey recentness. Only with such a clause applied can we consider if the recent event/discovery meets the general significance criteria for ITN. Also, given our intent to inform, the new information must be readily found in the targeted article. GreatCaesarsGhost 14:50, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Even if properly worded for a "result of a medical study" per GCG above, I'm not sure of the major significance here in that HIV still exists in the world and doesn't change its spread, onl that one avenue it thought it was spread is now believed closed off. I would think an HIV story would be based on coming up with a sure-fire cure, or the announcement the virus is considered eradicated by WHO or other groups. --Masem (t) 15:15, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Good-faith nomination, but the provided information doesn't seem to suggest that this is a major change in the common understanding of HIV/AIDS. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 20:39, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose we’ve known this since 2003, when fertility clinics stopped funding people with undetectable loads because it is safe for them to reproduce naturally. That’s a whole 16 years ago. Kingsif (talk) 10:35, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

May 2

[edit]
May 2, 2019 (2019-05-02) (Thursday)
Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Peter Mayhew

[edit]
Article: Peter Mayhew (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC, ABC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article is meh, it has an orange tag but is decently referenced. Died on April 30th, but announced today; feel free to move to the 30th if more appropriate. -A lad insane (Channel 2) 23:34, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Weak support - article is generally okay but the cn tags and unreferenced paragraphs needs work, ASAP. The article is gonna get massive viewcounts with or without RD. Juxlos (talk) 00:11, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per lack of citations for several paragraphs in the Star Wars section. The article needs a light copyedit as well. SounderBruce 00:12, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Please protect or at least semi-protect. NO ONE needs to see that.
The article has been semi-d by Muboshgu. -A lad insane (Channel 2) 01:41, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Juan Vicente Torrealba

[edit]
Article: Juan Vicente Torrealba (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): El Nacional
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Died at the age of 102, important Venezuelan musician Jamez42 (talk) 18:27, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

May 1

[edit]
May 1, 2019 (2019-05-01) (Wednesday)
Armed conflict and attacks

Arts and culture
Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) Discovery of Denisovans on the Tibetan Plateau

[edit]
Articles: Xiahe mandible (talk · history · tag) and Baishiya Karst Cave (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Scientists discover that the Xiahe mandible from Baishiya Karst Cave belonged to the first known Denisovan outside Siberia and the earliest human to have lived on the high-altitude Tibetan Plateau. (Post)
News source(s): Nature, Science
Credits:

Both articles updated

Nominator's comments: Widely reported major discovery: only the second known Denisovan site; the largest Denisovan fossil; earliest human on the Tibetan Plateau; pushes back the earliest known presence of humans at high altitude by 120,000 years; first ancient human identified by protein analysis. Zanhe (talk) 09:04, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support - Surprised that no one has yet commented on this. There have been some significant strides recently in understanding the variety and spread of Homo (various), and this finding is certainly one of them. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 09:15, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per the anon. The reason no-one's commented is probably that it sounds like a creature from Dr Who. But the article's in OK shape, and this is literally an event universal to humanity. Etc. ——SerialNumber54129 09:19, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Another possible explanation for the lack of comments is that this was nominated 11 minutes prior to his comment and 15 before yours. And posted in less that three... GreatCaesarsGhost 19:47, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Accession of Emperor Naruhito

[edit]
Article: 2019 Japanese imperial transition (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Japan, Emperor Akihito abdicates and is succeeded by Emperor Naruhito. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In Japan, Emperor Akihito abdicates and is succeeded by his son Naruhito.
News source(s): NYTimes BBC NPR Independent
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Wanted to nominate this as a blurb, but since it's a multi-day process, ongoing might be more appropriate. Banedon (talk) 23:21, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am boldly changing this to an ITNR nomination. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:29, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – ITNR notwithstanding, I'm not convinced this is really significant: It was officially announced two years ago, and before that Akihito, now 85, had been hinting at it for years. Furthermore, AFAIK the emperor of Japan is a ceremonial position whose occupant has little actual political power. As to ITNR, since the last abdication was 200 years ago, this is hardly a "recurring" event. Sca (talk) 12:22, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yugo. – Sca (talk) 13:04, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Sca: Don't forget that this is an abdication of an emperor ruling the most populous monarchy in the world, and it marks the start of a new era in the country's traditionalist society. While it's clear that it's just a ceremonial position, its significance would've surely not been brought into question had this even not been listed as an ITNR and no resignations of ceremonial heads of states been posted before.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 13:43, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
When Nicholas II, 50, and Wilhelm II, 59, abdicated amid war and revolution as emperors of Russia and Germany, respectively, a century ago, it was watershed news. Akihito, 85, has abdicated due to age and infirmity, not as a result of political issues. It's a big event in Japan for reasons of national tradition, but not anywhere else. – Sca (talk) 15:15, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The reason of abdication is irrelevant for that matter, such events naturally enter the historical textbooks anyway as milestones in national histories, especially in the case of the world's oldest monarchy which is Japan and the end of a 30-year reign. So does an encyclopedia. Brandmeistertalk 15:34, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Reasons for great historical events are never irrelevant. – Sca (talk) 18:05, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Except blurbs where they are often omitted, as in this one. Brandmeistertalk 20:01, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If a blurb contained his age the reason wouldn't be omitted. Sca (talk) 20:45, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
 Done -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:24, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks.Tlhslobus (talk) 16:40, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This user does not respond to users who don't exist. Boo! – Sca (talk) 14:55, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I concur with the ghost; if you're going to say he's had his week, at least wait until it's actually been at least one week. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 19:27, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
In fairness to Sca, he originally opposed an allegedly ITNR item both seemingly 'inappropriately' (or at least in a supposedly inappropriate forum) on significance but eventually also seemingly 'appropriately' on whether the abdication was ITNR, at a time when it was in fact correct to question at least its ITNR status (since the item was then headlined as about the abdication, which was not ITNR, rather then about the succession, which is ITNR).Tlhslobus (talk) 12:16, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - the emperor of Japan is ceremonial, yes, but if Elizabeth II dies/abdicates tomorrow the ITN would be posted in a heartbeat. This is certainly a gigantic event in Japanese circles at least and a major news worldwide, especially compared to some specific annual sports event or something. Juxlos (talk) 08:38, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - the emperor is the head of state in Japan. This is the formal transition of the title, if no longer of the power. Regardless of any personal opinion about "pointless figureheads", the question really comes down to whether ITN recognises the relevance of heads of state. If no, all heads of state should be treated similarly, regardless of country. If yes, this should be posted. Btw I agree that while the abdication itself may or may not be ITNR (in some countries it is exceedingly rare, in others the modern norm), the transition (per accession) certainly is ITNR. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 09:25, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support with caveat on quality - I counted a total of six sentences that still need to be verified. I've seen articles in much, much worse shape get fixed in a matter of hours. This nomination has been stalling for days due to the need for additional sources, so I'm going to try to look for some myself, and I'd appreciate if any other editors would like to cite a sentence or two. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 19:27, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I've fixed all of the sentences with citation needed tags, but the "Timeline" and "Ceremonies" subsections are still problematic. Any help would be welcomed. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 19:51, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Don't the pdfs given in the external links verify the 'timeline' and 'ceremonies' information? I don't read Japanese, so I can't say for certain. Maybe ask one of the Japanese-speaking editors who are editing the article? This does look close to being ready to post. Carcharoth (talk) 22:26, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I can't read Japanese either, but if any Japanese-speaking editor can verify that the provided links do in fact verify these sections, then it's good to go :) Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 22:33, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment Editor who added the ceremonies table here. The ceremonies are indeed sourced from the pdfs in the external links, they are both publicly available information from the Imperial Household Agency and the Prime Minister of Japan's official websites. TheInfernoX (talk) 04:06, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    That's great, thank you! I think it's ready to be posted now. I've struck my reservations from my comments. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 04:14, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support But "succeeded by" should be bolded instead of "abdicates" if it's about the ascension of Naruhito and not the abdication of Akihito. 2601:601:1001:E120:A1B5:51FB:E3EB:A009 (talk) 22:34, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support We should also mention this begins the Reiwa era. This is internationally and historically significant.-TenorTwelve (talk) 05:39, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I've added Altblurb1 per the above IPV6 comment. --Paul_012 (talk) 07:12, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well done, looks much better now. Posting. I'll add the Reiwa in the blurb. --Tone 15:42, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks.Tlhslobus (talk) 12:16, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Fiona Onasanya

[edit]
Consensus will not develop to post. Stephen 00:22, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Fiona Onasanya (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In response to a conviction for perverting the course of justice, British MP Fiona Onasanya (pictured) is removed from office following a recall petition from her constituents. (Post)
News source(s): (BBC(
Credits:
Nominator's comments: First MP to be removed in this way. Mjroots (talk) 19:45, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose local politics, and worse for the fact that it's fucking bonkers that a serving MP can go to prison and still be an MP unless their constituents get all disgruntled about it. Perverse. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:00, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I only came here because I was pinged in the nomination (for which thank you Mjroots!), but this does seem to be a significantly more limited story than most of the material in ITN. It's more politics-geekery than significant news, in my view. The Land (talk) 20:11, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Well, it's a first for the UK. I don't know how other countries deal with getting rid of their Members of Parliament in similar circumstances. If it gets posted, then great. If not, I really don't mind. Often an ITN nom has the side effect of more eyes on the article and improvements thereto. This is very much a "suck it and see" nom. Mjroots (talk) 20:22, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Minor politics, indeed not even the biggest story of the day in UK politics [29], let alone worldwide. Black Kite (talk) 20:16, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Some interest in that she's the first MP to be successfully recalled via a petition, but doesn't cross the ITN threshold.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 20:18, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support First time this has happened in the UK, which seems notable enough. doktorb wordsdeeds 20:20, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Thai queen

[edit]
Consensus will not develop to post. Stephen 22:59, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Template:ITN candidate

Template:Abot

(Closed) Caster Semenya loses appeal

[edit]

Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

Template:Abot

  1. ^ Template:Cite web
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