Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 1190

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Podcast as a reliable source

Are podcasts a reliable source? May I please cite them on articles after inserting content with discovered information? If not, explain? How can they be used wisely? 12.139.168.130 (talk) 03:45, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

This may be an unsatisfying answer, but it depends on the podcast. If you link it here, and link the article you'll get more concrete feedback. Questions to ask are:

• Is this podcast a primary or secondary source? (Primary sources are allowed but should be used differently, see: Wikipedia:Primary Secondary and Tertiary Sources)
• Are the people in the podcast regarded as experts on the subject of the article?
• Would you consider the podcast self-published? If not, who is the publisher?

Additionally, Wikipedia's policy is here: Wikipedia:Reliable sources

And you can get expert opinions on specific sources here: Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard

And sometimes here: Wikipedia talk:Reliable sources

I hope that helps, Rjjiii (talk) 03:59, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

@Rjjiii what about ones in Apple podcast store? 12.139.168.130 (talk) 04:16, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

It still depends. Think of the Apple podcast store like a book store. If the podcast is being released by its creators, the kind of thing where you would consider a book self-published, then the next question would be are the hosts, guests, interviewees, etc. experts or primary sources related to the article. If they're neither, then the source would not be considered reliable. Rjjiii (talk) 04:43, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

I wanna point out that this IP was blocked for disruptive editing. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contribs)} 04:51, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Becoming an auto confirmed user

How do I become an auto-confirmed user after creating a new account? What features can I access after becoming an auto-confirmed user? ClimateForest35 (talk) 03:28, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

@ClimateForest35: Welcome to Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 1190. Accounts become autoconfirmed when the account is both at least four days old and at least ten edits have been made. There's more information in the aforementioned link, but users gain the ability to move pages and edit semiprotected articles, among other features. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 03:53, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Oh, thank goodness for knowing that level. Auto-confirmed is 4 days and 10 edits. Gratias agimus tibi! ClimateForest35 (talk) 04:56, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Can I insert slang words into articles?

Since I want the article to have a variety of vocabulary words, are slang words acceptable on Wikipedia articles when editing? If not, why? 12.139.168.130 (talk) 04:16, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, and welcome to the Teahouse. Slang words are not usually permitted in the prose of the article on Wikipedia, as articles must have a formal, encyclopaedic tone. However, there are exceptions, such as quotes. JML1148 (talk | contribs) 04:58, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Why are talk page not forum?

If you use it as a forum for general, it gets removed. Why is talk pages only for discussing improvements, not general forum? 12.139.168.130 (talk) 04:04, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

hi ip user! basically Wikipedia is an encyclopedia first and foremost, not the place for general discussion about a topic, there are other places to discuss about these topics. happy reading! 💜  melecie  talk - 05:17, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Why BFDI has no article?

Why did BFDI got deleted on Wikipedia and salted after multiple attempts? How did they do that? 12.139.168.130 (talk) 04:05, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

This page has some information about BFDI on Wikipedia. DanCherek (talk) 04:09, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

To summarise the essay, BFDI is no longer permitted on Wikipedia because it has been established many times by the community that it isn't notable. This is because sources relating to it are often too short or are passing mentions. Fans repeatedly recreated the article and topics relating to it, wasting the time of editors, to the point that the topic was banned entirely. JML1148 (talk | contribs) 05:02, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

This essay might be relevant as well: Wikipedia:Guidance for younger editors. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 11:09, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Help

Can anyone help me with this Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Raj sahu z I didn't know that he was a blocked user. I revert only some parts of his text which seem neutral and have a reliable source. But he, again and again, reverted my every edit without any explanation. I am a newcomer so I don't know how to handle this investigation Bruhh is here (talk) 03:41, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

User:Bruhh is here is suspected of bing a sockpuppet at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Raj sahu z and is edit warring at Jabbar Singh Sankhala and elsewhere. My advice - stop all article editing until the sock investigation is resolved. It is clear that an editor is watching all of your contributions and reverting all as being from a suspected sock. David notMD (talk) 10:32, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Alright, I will not edit until the investigation resolve. Bruhh is here (talk) 11:13, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Formatting question in 1979 Easter flood

Hi everyone!

Just a little while ago (10 or 15 minutes or so) made an edit to the leader of the article 1979 Easter flood. In doing so, I decided to, at the same time, try to clean up a formatting imperfection in the preceding paragraph, which is the first paragraph in the leader. I was interested to see that there is an automated mechanism that displays the translated-into-current (or the desired updated target date, anyway) dollars value (in this case, the damages of a disaster) of the thing being referenced. Unfortunately, the way that the coding for that mechanism is written into the coding for the article ends up breaking up that line of text, or at least it does on a laptop view. It makes it look like a couple of different things: 2 paragraphs (instead of one), an incomplete sentence, or at least sub-par editing. I tried doing a couple of things to try to correct that to make the paragraph display properly without the line break, but to no avail. Is there anybody who can tell me how to fix this? Please and thank you.

QuakerIlK (talk) 23:57, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello QuakerIlK! The unwanted break in the lede paragraph was caused by the placement of the Coord Template, that places geographical coordinates at the top of the page across from the article title (not displayed on mobile). According to the template documents & WP:ORDER it should have been placed at the bottom of the article, above Categories. So I moved it there & now the lede paragraph is unbroken. Hope this helps! LooksGreatInATurtleNeck (talk) 01:14, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Wow! Thank you, LooksGreatInATurtleNeck. Such a brief, simple edit I was making, yet in the process of trial-and-error and inquiry, I learn not one but two things - although I am not sure I will ever actually apply that knowledge. Just FYI (and in case anybody else is looking in), I was born and raised in Jackson, so I have a memory (faint as it may be because I was only 4) of the flood. It didn't reach our house, but our dead-end street was blocked as the adjacent street was flooded in at the next intersection, so we couldn't go anywhere for a few days, although my maternal grandparents were about as hard hit as anybody else with 5 feet of water in their house. I made it cross-referential both on its page as well as on the 1979 Red River Valley tornado outbreak page because I recently received a book on the 1979 Easter flood as part of the personal effects of a uncle of mine who died a few months ago. In reading the introduction, I was stunned to learn that both were caused by the same storm system. I had also long known about the Wichita Falls, TX tornado that was part of that outbreak because in the mid 1990s, the secretary (who was a nice lady) of the academic department I was working for, as a student worker, in North Texas told me about it. IIRC, she was from that area, although if not, it was practically local history as it was only about a 1.5 hour drive from where we both worked at the time. She described the 1.5 mile-wide multi-vortex system and its devastation and, this being before the internet had really proliferated that much, I'd never heard of such a thing. I always remembered it, and I have read up about it on the internet over the years, as well as watched the rather good documentary/documentaries about it on Youtube. So, when I discovered a few days ago that they were both connected in such a way, I was surprised and it made an impression on me. I don't know that my making this edit and making it cross-referential on both pages will serve any larger purpose, but since I was so surprised to learn of it and since I discovered that neither page made mention of the other, I thought that it wouldn't hurt to make the edit, as least from my information junkie perspective.

Cheers,

QuakerIlK (talk) 16:15, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

I want an article to be deleted

A person from Nigeria created an article called Akorede Alli on my behalf to use it for his own gain, I am not affiliated to the article as the creator of the page wants to control the page for his own benefit. I don't want the person to create a page for me because his plan is to control me. How can this page article be deleted?. Akorede Alli (talk) 15:10, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Akorede Alli, and welcome to the Teahouse. Please look at WP:AFDHOWTO for instructions on how to nominate an article for deletion. ContributeToTheWiki (talk) 15:15, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: Akorede Alli ContributeToTheWiki (talk) 15:19, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Okay Thank you. Akorede Alli (talk) 15:28, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. The subject of an article does not generally get a say as to whether an article about them exists, no more than a subject could prevent the New York Times from writing about them. Articles can exist if the topic meets our notability criteria and it summarizes what independent reliable sources say about them. If you wish to argue that you are not notable, a deletion discussion may be started.

I'm not sure how someone can control you with an article, but if there is a behavioral issue here, please bring this up at WP:ANI. 331dot (talk) 15:17, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi Thank you.

I understand that an article can exist and articles can be edited on here by anyone, However when the article is been edited the creator goes back to edit it to what he did and not letting other editors add to the article, that's control and his own version doesn't fully represent the subject. As it says on wiki Articles can be edited by other editors, but he blocks others from touching the article. Akorede Alli (talk) 15:38, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

@Akorede Alli If you are the subject of the article Akorede Alli, then by policy you should not be editing it, since contrary to what you might think you do not own it. I note that between 3 and 5 May you did in fact make large additions which served to add a number of press releases in the form of external links. It is not surprising that these were removed. Subjects of articles should only suggest changes via {{edit request}}s on the Talk Page, in general. For information, the creator of the article in 2022 was Ibjaja055 but he has not edited it at all in 2023. All that being said, it is likely the article will indeed be deleted after the deletion discussion ends. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:05, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

@Michael D. Turnbull Thank you for the clarification. It seems @Akorede Alli joined purposely to enlarge his article. However, I will advise him to read the guidelines of Wikipedia. Ibjaja055 (talk) 16:24, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

@Ibjaja055 You can't simply say why I joined, I can speak for myself. I joined to add to edit the article you created for me without contacting me,you knew my name so that means you can find me before doing it. If you you did it in good faith. The policy says the subject can't edit their own article but you knew that and I didn't. I think the first thing that would come to one's head after seeing an article that is not fully correct and can be "edited" is to make corrections so no harm in that. I am sure you'd do the same. Nobody has done anything wrong here. Is just getting the Article right that's all and since you the creator you can do that. Akorede Alli (talk) 17:00, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

I didn't know about the article to begin with, Someone called me to let me know and I called my PR here in the state because I thought he was the one who created the article, and he advised that I can create a profile and edit the article in a good faith which I did, and I should add thing about me on it. I didn't know by policy I couldn't do that, so I stopped. Thank you for spotting the creator. Akorede Alli (talk) 16:49, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

How to add a Babel

Hello, I’ve done about 15 edits, and so I don’t know much about Wikipedia. Will you please teach me how to add Babels to my user page? Thank you! Flora Tribe 612 (talk) 18:21, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Babel should give the necessary instructions.

Wikipedia:Babel

en-5This user can contribute with a professional level of English.

de-3Dieser Benutzer hat sehr gute Deutschkenntnisse.

jaこの利用者は日本語を母語としています。

---

This user can speak Japanese.

sw-2Mtumiaji huyu aweza kushiriki kwa Kiswahili cha kiwango cha wastani.

Search user languages

Basically, one types {{Babel|<!--Abbreviation of language 1-->|<!--Abbreviation of language 2-->}}. The language abbreviations (basically the ISO language codes) are followed by a hyphen and a number between 1 and 5 to indicate how fluent an editor is in that language. Not adding a hyphen and a number will lead to the template to state the editor is a native speaker, a fluent speaker, or some variation thereof. For example:

{{Babel|en-5|de-3|ja|sw-2}} would yield the results shown to the right. The Babel box is automatically aligned (floated) to the right side of the page. I hope this helps. Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 18:40, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Ok

It have link it to Wikipedia Fandroidfan2002 (talk) 21:07, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

@Fandroidfan2002 Hello, what do you need help for? The Tips of Apmh 21:18, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Barnstar Topicon

How to I make a Topicon for my barnstar? ✠ Robertus Pius ✠ (Talk • Contribs) 19:54, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

@Orson12345, Barnstars don't generally have topicons, but you would use the {{Top icon}} template. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 21:26, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Best name for new article name taken

I created a sandbox article User:Eagledj/Sandbox/Jeff Taylor (musician), but I couldn't move it to the mainspace. Another person had claimed the title Jeff Taylor (musician). However, the latter is not an actual article, but a redirect to 16volt. There, a "Jeff Taylor" is mentioned in a list, not Wikified. I then published my article as Jeff Taylor (musical artist), accepting a less-descriptive title with hopes of later correcting it to (musician). Will you help me resolve this please? Many thanks, Eagledj (talk) 18:39, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello @Eagledj. You could make a technical move request at Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical requests, just hit "Add a new request". The Tips of Apmh 21:33, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Eagledj! When a conflict like that happens, presuming that both musicians are very roughly the same popularity, the way we resolve it is through more specific disambiguation. It looks like both of them are multi-instrumentalists to a degree, which makes it a bit trickier. I'd perhaps go with Jeff Taylor (industrial rock musician) and Jeff Taylor (Western swing musician). Since "Jeff Taylor (musician)" and "Jeff Taylor (musical artist)" could be either, I'd redirect both of those titles (after the move) to the disambiguation page Jeff Taylor#Other. You can learn more about disambiguation at WP:DAB. Also include {{Other people}} disambiguation notes at both. Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 21:42, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

unbelievably situational editing conundrums

this is the second time i come here with two questions of equal importance at once, and the second time of two that that importance is not very high

• when writing a list in a biography (like the musical instruments korn's members have been known to eat), is there any real concern with order, like keeping it alphabetical or chronological?
• can anyone leave afc comments on drafts, or just people with the ability to review and publish them?

cogsan • (give me attention) • (see my deeds) 21:35, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

@Cog-san I can answer the first. Not knowing the exact context: it would make the most sense if it was in the order it was in the original citation that supports it. The Tips of Apmh 22:16, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

@Cog-san, at the WP:Wikiproject Articles for Creation page, it states that

If you want to ask the submitter a question, or just make a comment on a submission, click the Comment option from the Review tab. Some premade templates of common responses can be found in Category:AfC comment templates.

It doesn't seem to say anything about non-reviewers placing comments. So, I'd say you have two options:

1. You can be WP:BOLD and place a comment on the submissions page. I mean, what's the worst that's going to happen? A reviewer could just revert your comment, and you don't do it again. End of story.
2. Or you could leave a comment on the draft creator's user talk page and see if they respond.

It might be helpful to have a courtesy link, or you could ask at Wp:Wikiproject Articles for Creation. Hope this helps -- ‍ ‍ Helloheart ‍ ‍ 22:34, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

they're both general questions, so i don't think examples would be really necessary

but if they're actually needed, it's for bill wurtz and salvatore ruocco (currently a draft) respectively

and thanks cogsan • (give me attention) • (see my deeds) 23:45, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Cog-san, you ask about "the musical instruments korn's members have been known to eat". Korn turns out to be a pop group. (They wear black and have long hair.) Is "eat" a typo for "play"? Anyway, the lists currently in this long article are short, so I wouldn't worry about it. How about working on the prose? It's ponderous. Random example: "Shortly prior to the release of Requiem, Davis revealed in an interview with Music Feeds that the band were already in the process of working on a follow-up studio album." How about, say, "Shortly before the release of Requiem, Davis told Music Feeds that the band were already working on another studio album"? -- Hoary (talk) 22:41, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Cog-san I see no issue with using the AfC comment template to leave a comment and have seen others do so. The main purpose of the template is it is removed automatically when articles are accepted, it adds no claim of rights or permissions etc. Regards KylieTastic (talk) 22:51, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

no, it was on purpose

just as an example of something that could be listed in an article

i know even less about korn than most pop (actually nu metal) bands, so i don't think i'll be trying to edit their article any time soon cogsan • (give me attention) • (see my deeds) 23:39, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Reasonable Waiting Time for Feedback from Other Editors

I plan to do some edits on this article and this article that involved deleting large chunks of text. I solicited the opinions of other editors in the talk pages, but I have received no replies so far. How long is a reasonable time to wait for feedback before implementing the changes myself?

LaivineOrodrim (talk) 00:20, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

I've waited anywhere from two weeks up to one year. If I got no response, I just make the edit. If I get reverted, then that usually causes discussion, particularly if I'm deleting something and someone adds it back, because the WP:BURDEN is on the editor adding material to gain consensus for it. ~Anachronist (talk) 00:40, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

At the top of an article's talk page, you're likely to find templates advertising relevant "WikiProjects". If you get no response in a week or so, then write on the talk page of one or more of these WikiProjects, inviting people to participate in the discussion that you've started. Word the invitation in such a way that it doesn't encourage readers to start a duplicate discussion on the WikiProject talk page itself. -- Hoary (talk) 01:18, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Creating a Wikipedia Page.

Good morning from the land down under. Brisbane Australia. I am hoping to connect with someone who can help me "Create" a Wikipedia Page. If someone is keen - I will give you all the information. I have run a successful Sporting Community of some 100k of followers for some 12 plus years. Its completely self funded, and done great things. It deserves in my humble opinion, to be on Wiki. If someone is keen to help with this - please let me know. Dave KahuKiwi (talk) 01:09, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

KahuKiwi, you'd better wait till one or more people not connected with this "successful Sporting Community" will want to create an article about it, without being nudged to do so. (Why the rush?) -- Hoary (talk) 01:17, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

hi @KahuKiwi and welcome to the Teahouse! is this related to the (now-deleted for inactivity) draft Kahu the Kiwi Rugby and World Sports? I don't recommend creating articles for things you run (or are in any way affiliated with) yourself, as this is a difficult process given your connection to the subject and the many policies we have regarding conflict-of-interest editing (which you should also read), and besides, there are some reasons why you may not want one. I also strongly discourage searching for someone to write an article on your behalf, as that would then bind them to the same restrictions as you, and if you're paying for editing services, it's most likely that it would be a scam. happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 01:18, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

@KahuKiwi: Do you have any reliable sources that are independent of your organization that provides significant coverage of your organization? If not, then your community cannot have an article here. See Wikipedia:Golden Rule to get an understanding of the kind of sources required.

Only after you have collected multiple qualifying sources, then you can try to write an article, following the instructions at WP:AFC because that is the only venue Wikipedia offeres for people with a conflict of interest (as you clearly have) to write an article.

Nobody is going to write an article for you based on information you personally provide. We need published sources independent of your organization. Everything that appears in the article must be verifiable by those published sources.

Bear in mind that Wikipedia is not to be used for publicity purposes, ever. Increasing exposure or "getting the word out" is incompatible with Wikipedia's goals. ~Anachronist (talk) 01:21, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Biden assassination attempt article?

Somebody should create an article about the guy who crashed his U Haul truck near the White House and tried to kill the US President Joe Biden

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/23/us/politics/truck-crash-white-house.html

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/23/politics/dc-uhaul-crash-charges/index.html Onion1981 (talk) 04:39, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@Onion1981: Somebody might, if the event meets the criteria for a stand alone article (WP:NEVENT). Otherwise it may end up as part of the article on Joe Biden. RudolfRed (talk) 04:44, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

To me, it looks like a minor triviality at this point. but future coverage may justify an attempt to create an article. ~~\\

Onion1981, he talked about it, but DID he try to kill Biden? I have the impression he didn't get past the security barrier--a long way short of reaching Biden. Uporządnicki (talk) 14:25, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

He clearly attempted something, I'm pretty sure if POTUS wasn't the most guarded person in the world, he would be dead, js. Onion1981 (talk) 14:40, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@Onion1981: I don't think it's really worth creating an article. It hasn't really received much coverage, and isn't very notable as a standalone topic. It would be best to have a sentence or two somewhere in the Joe Biden article. JML1148 (talk | contribs) 22:58, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

You know, when I first saw this, I supposed there's no article here on that guy who crashed his small plane into the White House when Clinton was president. But they I found out, there is! Uporządnicki (talk) 01:55, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

'Course, there's also one on that kid who flew a small plane from Germany, and with no permission at all, landed it right by the Kremlin. But that was pretty remarkable. Uporządnicki (talk) 01:55, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Creating article

 Courtesy link: Draft:Virgo

Hello, I would like some assistance in creating an article please. WonderDoy (talk) 23:23, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

hi @WonderDoy and welcome to the Teahouse! what do you plan to write about? I recommend reading Notability, Reliable sources and Your first article; these contain guidelines on writing articles (namely what can have an article, what sources can be used to back up claims in an article, and actually writing an article). happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 23:37, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

I would like to write an article about a singer name Virgo. I am new here, so please help me with a template or layout for me to get started. WonderDoy (talk) 23:55, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

@WonderDoy: That isn't how you get started. You are indending to write the article backward; see WP:BACKWARD. What you do to get started is first see if the singer Virgo even merits an article. Does she meet any of the criteria listed in WP:MUSICBIO? If not, then it's probably too soon and you shouldn't waste further effort. If you believe she meets any of those criteria (especially the first), then you must gather all the published sources you can find about the singer Virgo. These sources must meet the criteria described in WP:Golden Rule. Directory listings, interviews, press releases, none of those matter. We need significant coverage by reliable sources that are independent of Virgo.

Only after you have gathered your sources can you even consider starting to write the article, based on what the sources say. When you're ready to start, go to WP:AFC and follow the instructions there. But don't start until you find sources. Without those, your article won't be accepted for publication on Wikipedia. ~Anachronist (talk) 02:33, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, @WonderDoy. There seems to be an article for your subject already at Romain Virgo. The Tips of Apmh 03:07, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Jabal Sawdah

Hello I am trying to change a name of a page to correct it to the right one, not sure why it doesnt not get validated Nmahmoudi22 (talk) 03:11, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

@Nmahmoudi22 Welcome to Wikipedia! You cannot change the title because you do not have enough experience. Instead you can follow the instructions here: Wikipedia:Requested moves/Controversial. You place the template on the talk page and then change the text to what is needed. The Tips of Apmh 03:17, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Nmahmoudi22, as has been pointed out to you, you have a conflict of interest and therefore shouldn't edit the article Jabal Sawda or "move" (retitle) it. Please make any suggestion for the article on its talk page, Talk:Jabal Sawda. -- Hoary (talk) 04:55, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

The article Jabal Sawda refers to the "Soudha mountains". with a link to Al Souda, which uses the spelling "Soudah". Some consistency would be an improvement. Maproom (talk) 07:04, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Looking for tools to fix harv, sfn, and bibliography citations

I am currently going through an article that uses {{harvnb}} and was in rough shape. I've stripped out a bunch of material that had inline citations to Atlantis books. I need to check if I have any short footnotes that have harvnb templates pointed to a full citation that doesn't exist, and I also need to check which full citations are no longer referenced by harvnb or {{harv}}. I feel pretty sure that I've heard other editors do this in some kind of automated way, but I don't know where to look. I don't see any tools to check this out linked from the harv, harvnb, or {{sfn}} documentation. If anybody can point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it, Rjjiii (talk) 03:52, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Answered here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Citation_Style_1&diff=prev&oldid=1157533013 Rjjiii (talk) 08:17, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Changes have been removed

Hello All,

I spent a lot of time updating changes to a page by adding the correct references based on my research. These have been removed. Can you please advice me on what to do - ignore, keep persisting (it is too time consuming to redo these) or ?

Thanks! UAAMAZ (talk) 07:21, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: Kaikhosru Shapurji Sorabji Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 07:26, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

@UAAMAZ Welcome - you should go to the talk page, discuss with the person who reverted the edits (as they said in their edit summary.) The Tips of Apmh 07:29, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for the advice. I have written to Esowteric. All best! UAAMAZ (talk) 07:32, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, UAAMAZ, and welcome to the Teahouse. The first thing to note is that your work is not lost: it is there in the history of the article: another editor has reverted it, so you need to reach agreement with that other editor and any other editors who are concerned, but if the consensus is that some or all of your changes are improvements, then the changes are still there in the history and can easily be retrieved.

In fact, if you look at the history of the article, you will see that it was Toccata quarta who reverted your edits, with the comment Rv recent edits (due to some factual errors and consistency issues); please take to talk. So they are directly inviting you to discuss it on the talk page. (I have pinged Toccata quarta here, so they should see this discussion anyway). Please see WP:BRD for background to how this works. ColinFine (talk) 08:32, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks very much ColinFine - I am new to this and am aim is to correct as many references as I can so its a relief to know that my recent edits are still there. Will have a chat with Toccata quarta. All best! UAAMAZ (talk) 08:56, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello!

I submitted a page for review over a month ago. I was wondering if someone else could also review the article and let me know if its good. Also wondering how much longer until it will be approved. Thank you Kennyod (talk) 07:58, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Kennyod. Draft:Clemzy was declined on 5 April 2023 and is not currently waiting for review. Your draft only has two references and both are interviews. They are not independent sources and do not contribute to notability. Your draft needs a major rewrite with much better references. Cullen328 (talk) 08:10, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello. That is not the draft I was referring too. I have submitted another one that is still under review. Kennyod (talk) 08:20, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Kennyod, and welcome to the Teahouse. I'm afraid that the answer to your second question is that nobody in the entire universe knows how long it will take until your draft is reviewed: reviewers, like all editors, are volunteers, and choose what they want to work on. What I can say is that leaving your references as bare URL's makes the draft much less appealing for a reviewer. When a reference is properly formatted, a reviewer can see at a glance the publisher, date, author, title, and form a likely opinion of how useful it will be as a source (that opinion might be wrong, of course, but generally it isn't). With bare URLs that's harder to do.

So what you are saying to reviewers is "I'm not going to make it easy for you to review this, but please will you review it anyway".

I've explained this in order to clarify why I strongly advise you to reformat all the citations: please see WP:REFB. ColinFine (talk) 08:37, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

There are now 21 discrete references; reformatting each of the 21 would take an unnecessary amount of your time and lead to unnecessary bulk. Instead, combine (i) ColinFine's (excellent) advice with (ii) "named references" (explained in WP:REFB). -- Hoary (talk) 08:55, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: Draft:Yung Willis ContributeToTheWiki (talk) 08:21, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I will do that. Kennyod (talk) 08:56, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Kennyod, the first thing any reviewer will do is to check whether the draft establishes that the subject is notable. But none of the first four sources cited is independent of the subject. That's a discouraging start. Maproom (talk) 09:00, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Sub-bullets

I want to format the sub-bullets in an article differently from the main bullets. It's very confusing for readers to see black dots at both levels. But when I go to the bullet formatting, I don't see an option to do this. Am I missing something?

Below is an example in the article of what I'm talking about.

• Lyuli, in central Asian countries.
• Romanlar in Turkey, Turkish-speaking Muslim Roma in Turkey, also called Çingene or Şopar, with all subgroups, who are named after their professions, like:
  • Cambazı (acrobatics and horse trading)
  • Sünnetçi (circumciser), like a mohel

Augnablik (talk) 17:08, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Augnablik. If it is necessary, you can do it with HTML - see MOS:BULLETLIST. But I would urge you to consider whether the information should be presented as a list at all: see WP:PROSE. ColinFine (talk) 17:57, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

If I understand your point here, ColinFine, you mean that because the list has accompanying tex,t it would be better to make the information just plain text, unbulleted — which WP:PROSE suggested. Well, perhaps, though the list in this article is really long. It would be quite a task to unbulletize everything.

Thanks for responding to my question. Augnablik (talk) 12:12, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

What happened with this page and its attribution?

Yesterday I made the page Draft:Jessica Watkins (Capitol rioter) under the name Draft:Jessica Watkins (Oath Keeper) and something confusing happened and it ended up split into two pages and one Jessica Marie Watkins is in mainspace. What is the story behind this? Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 18:40, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Immanuelle. On 26th at 22:26 UTC, you created Draft:Jessica Watkins (Capitol rioter). Twenty hours later CT5555 created Draft:Jessica Watkins (Oath Keeper), and then five minutes later they moved it to main space as Jessica Marie Watkins, leaving their original draft behind as a redirect.

I suggest the two of you get together (perhaps on Talk:Jessica Marie Watkins) and agree how to pool your work on the article. ColinFine (talk) 18:49, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Jessica Watkins - entirely different person - has a note at top "For the Capitol rioter, see Jessica Marie Watkins". David notMD (talk) 18:52, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

I am not convinced that "rioter" is a WP:NPOV description, but I see no better wording ("Oath Keeper" is incomprehensible to someone who is not intricately familiar with contemporary US politics). Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 12:16, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Semey Medical University

I am drafting the article about Semey Medical University. I would be thankful if someone can help in this process. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Semey_Medical_University Ruth Dahle (talk) 14:18, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Ruth Dahle and welcome to the Teahouse. Firstly, the article needs references. See WP:GOLDENRULE. Above all, though: the content should be written to reflect what is actually said in reliable sources, rather than saying what you want to say and then hunting around for references to back you up.

You may find parts of Help:Your first article useful. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 14:42, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for reminding me of the importance of adhering to the guidelines and maintaining the integrity of the information presented. I appreciate your feedback and will ensure to incorporate appropriate references in future revisions. Ruth Dahle (talk) 14:52, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Lesser issues: there are no wikilinks to other Wikipedia articles, and we use "Sentence case" not "Title Case" for headings. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 15:01, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

@Ruth Dahle: Welcome to Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 1190. The draft written at this time is unsuitable to be on Wikipedia. Aside from the issues Esowteric has pointed out, it is blatantly promotional. The encyclopedia requires that articles be written from a neutral point of view; they should not praise or disparage the subject. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 16:00, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

I appreciate the suggestions and welcome further comments and inputs. Due to my busy schedule with professional work, there may be a significant delay in publishing this Wikipedia page. Consequently, I would greatly appreciate any additional assistance you can provide. Thank you in advance for your continued help. Ruth Dahle (talk) 13:20, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

I added some basic edits to the page and some edits based on some of the comments in this section. The draft will definitely need some references. There is also now an Infobox on the page, so any details to add for the university will be helpful. A good picture added to the article can be important as a quick search in Commons did not show any images available. Adam MLIS (talk) 23:17, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much. There is a photo of the university here: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D1%83%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%82_%D0%A1%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%B9. How can it be used on this Wikipedia page? Ruth Dahle (talk) 13:13, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Ruth Dahle as the image is on c:commons it can be used directly here. I've added to show you. If was being used automatically in the Russian version from the Wikidata Semey Medical University (Q2324449). Cheers KylieTastic (talk) 13:16, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your help. Ruth Dahle (talk) 13:22, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

William E. Sasser Distinguished Flying Cross Medal

Good Morning,

The wiki page regarding the Distinguished Flying Cross Medal is missing a very important individual! William E. Sasser was a member of the U.S Coast Guard. He was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross Medal for his incredible work during Hurricane Katrina. A great man who deserves to be recognized officially on wiki.Distinguished Flying Cross (United States)#United States Coast Guard 65.99.68.72 (talk) 15:30, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello. The Distinguished Flying Cross is definitely an honor in the U.S. but not a rare one. Tens of thousands were awarded in World War II, for example, and there are about 7,000 living recipients. Wikipedia currently has 1308 biographies of people who received that medal. So, the list in the article includes only the most famous and accomplished of them. There is no Wikipedia biography of William E. Sasser, so he is definitely not eligible for that list. Cullen328 (talk) 16:31, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Page Title

I am creating a page for a local nonprofit, Atlantic Symphony Orchestra based in Massachusetts. There was a previous Atlantic Symphony Orchestra in Canada, since dissolved. I originally titled my working draft, Atlantic Symphony Orchestra, Massachusetts. The organization has suggested Atlantic Symphony Orchestra, USA would be a better title. I don't seem to be able to edit the title. Can I? Or do I just abandon (delete) the old draft and start a new entry, with the preferred name? Thanks, John JohnJPJr (talk) 19:11, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

JohnJPJr Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. You may leave a note on the draft talk page regarding the title, though the title should ideally be whatever most reliable sources refer to the organization as; the wishes of the organization aren't necessarily relevant. See WP:COMMONNAME. Your draft will need to summarize what independent reliable sources choose on their own to say about the organization and what makes it significant/important/influential- showing how it meets the special Wikipedia definition of a notable organization. It isn't enough to just summarize its activities.

If you are in communication with the organization regarding your draft, please review conflict of interest. If they are compensating you in any manner(not just money or even anything tangible), the Terms of Use require you to make a formal paid editing disclosure. 331dot (talk) 19:17, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

I am in communications with the organization to clarify certain dates and names, not dissimilar to a reporter getting facts for an article. (Yes, I now know the difference but have been a web designer in the past, it is hard to change.) My relationship to the organization is as a paying patron and I am not being compensated in any way. I know the current state of the article is meager and am currently in the fact and source gathering stage. While I have contributed in the past, this is my first create from scratch attempt. Thanks for everyone's help. JohnJPJr (talk) 19:30, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

That will count as a conflict of interest that should be disclosed. It doesn't mean you can't proceed. Typically, articles are created without any involvement from, or even the knowledge of, the subject. 331dot (talk) 19:40, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

I would also suggest that instead of thinking about it as a "page for" the organization, think of it as an article about the organization. There is a distinction there- articles are in no way for the benefit of the subject, and the subject has no more say as to what goes into an article than any other editor. 331dot (talk) 19:20, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Hello, JohnJPJr. The current title of the draft is a triviality at this point, and the untimate title of an article can be determined if and when the article is accepted. What is far more important is that Draft:Atlantic Symphony Orchestra, Massachusetts is unreferenced and fails to make the case that this orchestra is notable as Wikipedia defines that term. Please follow the advice at Your first article. Your draft needs a lot of work. Cullen328 (talk) 19:21, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Article Updates on a Slightly Notable Person keeps getting rejected!

FYI

 – Collapsing draft content. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 19:42, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: Draft:Eddy Kara

Extended content

Eddy Kara-Sarkissian (born 03 September 1988) is a Canadian political strategist, organizational psychologist, filmmaker, and actor.. He began his filmmaking journey into the independent world directing several student films. He first received acclaim in 2015 for his feature film The Sociopath's Guild, for which he won the Best Director Wreath Award, along with 9 other nominations, at the Montreal International Wreath Awards Film Festival (MIWAFF) Both in 2016 and 2017, he ran for the General Coordinator/President position of the Concordia Student Union where he wanted to improve the healthcare insurance plan to extend it to improve students' mental health . Following his success with 'The Sociopath's Guild', he was selected to be the Festival Director of the Montreal International Wreath Awards Film Festival (MIWAFF) in 2016 up until 2022. He led the festival to transformative changes in the digital space, entering into the streaming sphere way before the COVID outbreak as well as making the voting process more democratic . In 2021, Eddy won the Best Comedy Director award at the New York True Venture Film Festival for his political comedy "No, Mr. Mayor-Part 2" . Late in 2021, Eddy Kara ran for city council in his hometown Dollard-des-Ormeaux, where he focused on not increasing taxes and building a better community during hard times . In the last decade, Eddy has been heavily involved in managing many political campaigns, from provincial to federal ones. This led him to launch his own business Kara Strategies which focuses on business and political strategy . More recent campaigns he has managed were the Quebec Liberal nomination wins in Laurier Dorion and Chomedey. He graduated from Adler University in 2022 with a Master's in Industrial-Organizational Psychology In early 2023, he founded and hosts his political podcast "Our Bottom Line: Views about News" References {{cite web}}: Empty citation (help): Missing or empty |title= (help). https://ca.linkedin.com/in/eddy-kara-94931720a Link to draft: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Eddy_Kara&oldid=1157497068

Dreadful2002 (talk) 18:52, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Firstly Linked in, Spotify, .IMdb and their own website are not suitable sources. Theroadislong (talk) 19:08, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

How to add a userbox

Hello, and thank you for reading this.Please, May I know, how do I add a userbox to my user page? Thank you!❤️ Flora Tribe 612 (talk) 18:25, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Flora Tribe 612, and welcome to the Teahouse. Have a look at Wikipedia:Userboxes for an explanation of adding userboxes to your user page. ContributeToTheWiki (talk) 20:22, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Non-free use rationale: Enter Shikari - Anything Can Happen in the Next Half Hour

Hello! I was looking at how to add non-free audio samples, and which pages needed audio samples, so I created a short sample of Anything Can Happen in the Next Half Hour by Enter Shikari, but I'm not sure how to make the n.f. use rationale. Can anyone here help me with this? LOOKSQUARE (👤️·🗨️) talk 20:25, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @LOOKSQUARE! You'll want to upload the file. Use {{Non-free audio sample}} as the license, and for the non-free use rationale, something like this:

{{Non-free use rationale 2
|Description = Sample of "Anything Can Happen in the Next Half Hour", a single by Enter Shikari.
|Source = '''Original publication''': Enter Shikari<br/>
'''Immediate source:''' Spotify
|Author = Enter Shikari
|Article = Anything Can Happen in the Next Half Hour
|Purpose = Sample for infobox
|Replaceability = None available.
|Minimality = Used only for article on song itself, at Vorbis quality setting of 0, and less than 10% of the total length of the song.
|Commercial = n.a.
}}

More details are available at {{Non-free use rationale 2}}. Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 21:13, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Draft Space vs Sandbox

Hi. Is there a difference between draft space and sandbox, and if so, what is it?Lord Milner (talk) 19:48, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

@Lord Milner: Welcome. The draft space is specifically for creating a draft of a new artice. The sandbox may be used for that also, but it can also be used to just try out different things. In otherwords, the sandbox use is more broad than draft space use. Check out Wikipedia:Drafts and Help:My_sandbox for more info. RudolfRed (talk) 19:57, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

👍 Thank you! Lord Milner (talk) 21:51, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

@Lord Milner You might like to know that you can create multiple sandbox pages with different names. I've got loads of them going back years for things I've wanted to work on, but never quite found the time to finish. Nick Moyes (talk) 22:17, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Can't certain kinds of letters be used as references?

I know that Wikipedia frowns on using letters as references. But what about letters written to the subject of an article from (1) a important public figure such as a country's prime minister, and (2) a noted religious leader — both held in general high esteem and respect?

Augnablik (talk) 06:08, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

@Augnablik: Welcome to Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 1190. The reason why Wikipedia frowns on using letters as references is because they're limited in use and don't establish notability as Wikipedia defines it. The examples you've given would be primary sources due to their direct connection with the subject, and one could only state what was written in those letters; any interpretation, analysis, evaluation, etc. on the editor's part is forbidden by the no original research policy and its subsection synthesis.
In short, you can write about the contents of the letter, but not any further in what it means unless you have a secondary source that is reliable that makes such observations.
The question here is: what would your intention in using them be? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 06:17, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Augnablik. If these letters written by an important public figure such as a country's prime minister and a noted religious leader — both held in general high esteem and respect are worthy of discussion on Wikipedia, then surely these letters have been studied and analyzed by historians. If so, cite the historians. If not, then these letters are not as significant as you think. It is not the job of a Wikipedia editor to decide which primary sources are important and deserving of attention. That is the job of the authors of the reliable, secondary, independent sources that we summarize. Cullen328 (talk) 07:07, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Well, no, the letters haven't been studied and analyzed by historians ... the subject of the article died fairly recently, and although he was notable in several areas, I'm not sure how likely it would be for general historians to delve into them. Historians within the areas in which he was notable, perhaps at some point.

I knew the letters might not past muster, given WP:RS, but I wasn't sure if there were exceptions and that was my question. Augnablik (talk) 16:04, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

@Augnablik If such letters are published or added to an accessible library or archive collection, they could be used as Primary sources. However, if they remain privately held they cannot be used at all. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 22:50, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

account merge

I'm trying to merge two users on wikipedia.org.

After reading as much as I could find, it looks like I have to have someone with Bureaucracy capabilities do it for me. I am pretty sure I have this correct, assuming I need to do a merge.

I'm not even 100% sure there are two users because they are "Todd" (my first name) and "Bezenek" (my second name) and I remember seeing "Todd" in places where I now see "Bezenek", but on some old posts, I see "Todd" on the signature, so it is always possible. I did the obvious thing and searched for "User:Todd" and I find someone who is obviously not me based on their edit history that the search found.

Where do I go and/or who do I need to contact?

Thank you in advance,

Todd Todd (talk) 19:14, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

@Bezenek: Your username is Bezenec but your signature shows Todd. If User:Todd is not your account please change the your signature so it is not confused with the other one. In any case, accounts cannot be merged. Just pick one account to use and abandon the other one. Leave a note on your user page saying "This user previously edited under the account of (name)" RudolfRed (talk) 19:37, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Edited, since I read the question better. RudolfRed (talk) 19:41, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

@Bezenek: You probably entered "Todd" in the "Signature" field at Special:Preferences in 2021. It has never been your username. You can remove it to sign as your username "Bezenek". You could also enter "Todd Bezenek" to display your full name but "Todd" alone is confusing. There is a user called Todd and Special:Listusers/Todd has thousands of names starting with "Todd". PrimeHunter (talk) 20:34, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello PrimeHunter,

That's a great answer. Thank you.

I have a unique name, so if I use my full name, everyone will know everything I do. But, this is Wikipedia, and the point is to be open, so I'll use my full name.

Thank you for the suggestion. You made it easy to decide. Bezenek (talk) 06:23, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

@Bezenek: Keep in mind that if people need to ping you, they're going to use your account name, Bezenek, regardless of what you put in your signature. If you would like to change your account name to your full name, you can submit a name change request. User:Todd Bezenek doesn't seem to be in use. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 13:40, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

@Tenryuu: Thank you for the suggestion. I'm going to leave it the way it is because I use "bezenek" as a login all over the Web.

I agree with you on the third comma (from your badge.) I also like my periods and commas inside the parens and quotes, although with technical issues where exact values, e.g., passwords or user names, are in quotes, I find it is best to keep the period outside. For this reason, I don't change these things on Wikipedia. I expect the world standard will slowly come to having them on the outside. Todd Bezenek (talk) 23:32, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Problem with Template:Wide image

On Jasmund, a pano isn't appearing correctly and it is making your scroll across the image. Would appreciate some help. PalauanLibertarian^🗣️ 00:22, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

The pano looks fine to me. Can you describe the issue with more detail? Carpimaps ^{talk to me!} 04:52, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

How to remove an abandoned Draft?

For Draft:Flavia Vento, the top banners shows "This is a draft Articles for creation (AfC) submission. It is not currently pending review." Then "...abandoned drafts may be deleted after six months." So my question is: how to delete? Regards, JoeNMLC (talk) 23:53, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

@JoeNMLC: If it has been 6 months since the last edit, you may request deletion using {{Db-g13}}, see the instructions there. RudolfRed (talk) 00:00, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

JoeNMLC, there are bots that automatically tag for deletion drafts that have not been edited in six months. It is not necessary for human editors to do this work. Cullen328 (talk) 00:07, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Cullen328, looks like the 6-months will be June 2, so I can wait just a bit longer. Thanks, JoeNMLC (talk) 00:56, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Oh dear, one might use the sorry history of this article to illustrate how a lot of well-intentioned people devoted increments of time that must have added up to quite a lot -- to the eventual accomplishment of nothing. (But this unusually prolix version might show that machine translation has advanced during the last decade.) Somebody a lot more interested in un personaggio televisivo, showgirl ed ex modella italiana than I am might examine the Italian article: it doesn't look bad. -- Hoary (talk) 09:21, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

First Article Help

Hi,

I have tried to submit my first article on Wikipedia, however it has been rejected for being bias. I have rewritten it, please could someone help me with what to take out/ add to make the article acceptable before I resubmit. Any advise welcome.

Thanks, Issie

Extended content

Tusker Cars · Type of business: Private · Founded: 2000 · Headquarters: Watford, United Kingdom · Area Served: UK · CEO: Paul Gilshan · Industry: Automotive · URL: tuskercars.com [1] · Current Status: Active Tusker is a salary sacrifice and car leasing provider working in the public and private sectors in the UK focusing on getting employees into Electric Vehicles (EV’s) and Ultra-Low Emission Vehicles (ULEV) [2]. Bought by Lloyds Banking Group in February 2023, the acquisition will support the group’s ambitions to achieve net zero targets by 2050 [3]. Tusker are sole providers of CPC Drive which offers salary sacrifice and car benefit schemes to the NHS and other public sector organisations [4]. Tusker are also founders of EV100, and have pledged to have a fully electric fleet by 2030 [3]. History Tusker was founded in 2000 with the aim of developing the corporate fleet leasing industry by taking it online. Supplying contract hire and lease cars through an online platform with lead investor Smedvig Capital, a London-based venture capital firm [5]. In 2008, the business started offering salary sacrifice car schemes to organisations, the first of which was launched with multinational law firm Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer [5]. Following becoming a carbon neutral company in 2010, Tusker introduced a Carbon Offsetting Project where they would offset any tailpipe emissions of all the cars they put on the road and even the charge needed for the electric cars on the road against verified carbon offsetting projects [6]. In 2010, Tusker was awarded as sole provider of CPC Drive which offers salary sacrifice and car benefit schemes to the NHS and other public sector organisations. Tusker also developed and now manage an online salary sacrifice and lease car management web portal for CPC Drive [4]. In 2012, Tusker introduced a StopGap car scheme, designed to keep its drivers mobile while they await delivery of their new car [7]. In 2015, following the exit of Smedvig Capital, the company formed a new partnership with ECI Partners [8]. In 2018 Paul Gilshan was appointed as CEO of the company. Previous CEO David-Hosking moved into the role of Deputy Chairman [9]. In August 2018, Kit Wisdom joined Tusker as Operations Director [10]. In October 2018, Steve Barker was appointed as Commercial Director for the company [11]. Recent Years In 2019, Tusker won a place on the Salary Sacrifice Cars and Associated Services Framework, making their salary sacrifice scheme available to more than 70 councils and 40 NHS trusts [12]. In 2020, Tusker partnered with Reward Gateway, the leading global employee engagement company, to offer salary sacrifice car schemes to their clients’ employees [13]. Continuing with their environmental work, on World EV Day in 2021 Tusker announced that they are a net positive contributor to the environment. This comes after 11 consecutive years of Tusker running its business as carbon neutral. Tusker is on track to achieve net zero by 2023 and has surpassed a milestone in offsetting more than 250,000 tonnes of carbon emissions via Verified Carbon Standard programmes in the process [14]. In 2022, Tusker lobbied with the BVRLA on their #SeeTheBenefit campaign working to keep company car tax low on electric vehicles [15]. In February 2023, Tusker was brought by Lloyds Banking Group joining their transport division with the likes of Lex Autolease and Black Horse [3]. Awards · Best Car Benefit Scheme 2021 – WSB Awards [16] · EV Finance & Insurance Award 2021 – Electric Vehicle Awards [17] · Green Apple Award for Environmental Best Practice 2018, 2019, 2021 [18] · Best for Turnkey Car Benefit Solutions 2020 – Business Excellence Awards [19] · Car Benefit Scheme Provider of the Year, 2019 – Corporate Vision Magazine [20] · Best Workplace Car Scheme 2019- UK- AI Business Excellence Awards [21] · Car Benefit Specialist of the Year, AI Business In Excellence 2018 [22] · Innovation in Customer Service, Fleet World Honours 2017 [23] External Sources 1. Tusker's LinkedIn Profile https://www.linkedin.com/company/tuskerdirect/ 2. Tusker's Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/Tuskerdirect/ 3. Tusker's YouTube Page https://www.youtube.com/@Tuskercarscheme/ 4. Tusker's Instagram Page https://www.instagram.com/tuskercars/ 5. Tusker's Trust Pilot Page https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/tuskerdirect.com/ 1. ^ "Tusker — Drive a better car through Salary Sacrifice". Tusker. Retrieved April 6, 2023. 2. https://www.lloydsbankinggroup.com/who-we-are/our-brands/tusker.html Lloyds Banking Group. Retrieved May 30, 2023. 3. ^ "Lloyds Banking Group acquires low emission vehicle leasing company Tusker". Lloyds Banking Group. Lloyds Banking Group. Retrieved April 6, 2023. 4. ^ "CPC Drive - Vehicle Leasing and Salary Sacrifice Scheme (NOE.0524)". NOE CPC. Retrieved April 6, 2023. 5. ^ "Investment Portfolio". Smedvig Capital. Retrieved April 6, 2023. 6. ^ "Tusker introduces new green initiatives". Fleet News. September 1, 2014. Retrieved April 6, 2023. 7. ^ "Success for Tusker StopGap cars scheme". Fleet News. November 30, 2012. Retrieved April 6, 2023. 8. ^ "Tusker". ECI Partners. Retrieved April 6, 2023. 9. https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/fleet-leasing/news/latest-fleet-leasing/2018/04/19/tusker-appoints-new-ceo . Fleet News. October 9, 2015. Retrieved April 6, 2023. 10. ^ "Tusker extends Fleet Assist contract for three more years". Fleet News. August 5, 2020. Retrieved April 6, 2023. 11. ^ "Tusker to assist EV switch with Diode partnership". Fleet News. February 10, 2021. Retrieved April 6, 2023. 12. ^ "Tusker joins nationwide procurement framework as sole supplier". Fleet News. February 12, 2019. Retrieved April 6, 2023. 13. ^ "Reward Gateway Announces Salary Sacrifice Partnership with Tusker". Employee Benefits. November 26, 2020. Retrieved April 6, 2023. 14. ^ "Tusker now net positive contributor to environment after 11 years of carbon neutrality". EV Fleet World. Retrieved April 6, 2023. 15. ^ "BVRLA helps MPs #SeeTheBenefit". BRVLA. July 21, 2022. Retrieved April 6, 2023. 16. ^ "WSBA Awards 2022". WSBA Awards. Retrieved April 6, 2023. 17. ^ "Results 2021". e-mobility awards. Retrieved April 6, 2023. 18. ^ "CRSA Awards" (PDF). CRSA Awards. Retrieved April 6, 2023. 19. ^ "Tusker". Acquisition International. Retrieved April 6, 2023. 20. ^ "Tusker". Acquisition International. Retrieved April 6, 2023. 21. ^ "Tusker". Acquisition International. Retrieved April 6, 2023. 22. ^ "AI 2018 Business Excellence Awards". Acquisition International. Retrieved April 6, 2023. 23. ^ "Fleet World Honours 2017". Fleet World. Retrieved April 6, 2023.

81.145.187.130 (talk) 09:58, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi, and welcome to the Teahouse. Where was your old draft article that was rejected? And where is your new draft article? Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 10:21, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

This appears to be User:Tusker Cars evading their block. Their draft was deleted as promotional. ColinFine (talk) 10:36, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

RS

How does one introduce a simple fact ex. Annamarie Tendler is featured on Laur Wheeler's spoken word album Birthday Card, in which she reads the poem, "Well and Good", when the only source is New York Post, and the actual album itself: Amazon Music, Spotify Album, YouTube track listing, Boomplay, KKBox, Tik Tok, etc? Thanks. (The question is not regarding notability for inclusion but whether the content statement is considered null and void solely based on NY Post not being a reliable source.) I'm coat-tailing on this discussion here: [1] about People Magazine. Can't a simple "better source needed" template suffice when it is not contentious, analytical, opinion-based, libelous content? Maineartists (talk) 20:43, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

@Maineartists, it doesn't seem that the link to the New York Post is working, at least for me, so I can't see it. But if it follows the guidelines in WP:Reliable sources fits with the source and it has significant coverage then you can add the fact with the citation in the appropriate article if it's notable. ‍ ‍ Helloheart ‍ ‍ 20:57, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello‍ Helloheart & Maineartists! Here's a fixed version of that New York Post link as the one above left the "|access-date" attached. Hope this is of help! LooksGreatInATurtleNeck (talk) 21:07, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, LooksGreatInATurtleNeck! ‍ Helloheart, it's not content that requires multiple sources. It's merely a stated fact. The track is multi-listed and the story was covered (albeit in the NY Post). The question I have is: should the content be stricken simply because the New York Post is considered a "non-reliable" source? What more sourcing does one need to back such a simple claim? I'm questioning overkill for such a straightforward statement. Maineartists (talk) 22:41, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Maineartists, if the "album" (CD?) Birthday Card has liner notes (or something analogous) that say that Annamarie Tendler reads the poem "Well and Good", then those are (that is) what I'd cite. (If there's reason to doubt the veracity of the liner notes, it's a different story.) -- Hoary (talk) 12:31, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Hey, Great, Hoary! I never even thought about liner notes! Thank you! Maineartists (talk) 13:42, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

I'd like to start a discussion about collecting and world records. Where would be the best place to do this?

I'd like to start a discussion about collecting and worlds records. I had some articles deleted in regards to these, and I think a larger discussion needs to be had. I'd like to know where this discussion should take place.

Thanks KatoKungLee (talk) 14:59, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

@KatoKungLee There is a category page Category:Records (superlatives). I suggest you look at some of the articles in there and then at the Talk Page(s) of any that seem relevant to you. Those Talk Pages should list the WP:PROJECTS interested. Using a relevant project talk page might be a good place for your discussion. You could leave a message on other Project talk pages to say where you are centralising the discussion. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:14, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Uncertainty about the validity of creating a new Wikipedia article

Hi,

I wish to create a new Wikipedia article which is a collection of facts about an existing UK-based amateur barbershop music group.

I seem to recall I tried creating such a Wikipedia resource a few years ago but perhaps it was taken down by moderators. This would have only been because it was either not notable and/or lacked third-party validation/citation (sorry, cannot remember the details any more).

I now want to have another attempt at creating the article but, this time, I want to make sure I prepare better, listen to the experts, and be ready for issues before they happen so that I don't waste time on an article which gets rejected.

As such, I felt it would be a good idea to base my own article on others which DO seem to have stood the test of time in that they still exist - so presumably conform to Wikipedia rules. For instance:

Hallmark of Harmony

Alexandria Harmonizers

What I would like to do is to pretty much follow the same content and style of these to introduce another barbershop group on the basis that, if these other articles are acceptable, then mine will be too.

So my question to Teahouse is simply this: what is it specifically about these other two articles which means that they conform to the accepted standards for articles in terms of notability, validity, citation, and so on ? Or, to turn it on its head, what do they NOT say which would otherwise cause moderators to ask for changes ?

Thank you for any replies. Gazroobari (talk) 15:09, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

@gazroobari: those articles are bad. don't base your article off of those. it's unfortunately quite common that old and poor quality articles like these are swept under the radar.

as for our standards on articles, this page contains everything you need to know about creating an article. lettherebedarklight晚安 15:13, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

@gazroobari: The easiest way to tell if anything is notable or not is by doing various google searches, Google Books searches and newspapers.com searches. If the group you want to write about has a lot of articles on them by major mainstream media sources, it's probably worth writing about. If your topic of interest just has sources that were made on personal websites or databases, it's probably not suitable under current rules.KatoKungLee (talk) 15:17, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

@Gazroobari There is a useful essay at this link about how to approach drafting your article. There is a rather harsh assessment at WP:GARAGE that is nevertheless worth reading too. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:21, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

maps

hello there -

i'm wondering if anyone knows about the maps on Wikipedia - specifically, the tech behind them. when i've enlarged the maps (across several devices), the indicator dot disappears on the enlarged map. the enlarged maps to which i'm referring are of the area including the dot indicator on the initial, unenlarged map.

somehow i found my way here, and that map issue has long been on my radar. so i'm here to map out my study on behind the scenes Wikipedia with that.

any direction is appreciated - either to an entity here to fix this or to training that might address this.

thank you, Beth. Hirbey (talk) 15:32, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

@Hirbey, welcome! If you get no better reply here, WP:MAPS may have some of what you want. You can also try asking at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Maps. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:36, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

how do you add a page

wanting to add a page for dextromethamphetamine which does not yet exist, and if you click the link to it, it'll link to the racemic meth page.

there's two isomers in meth, levo and dextro, which both together in equal amounts make racemic methamphetamine. dextrometh is known to be the more active isomer, responsible for most of the euphoric clean recreational effects. yet, even though structurally dextrometh is a different drug from racemic, there's no page for it, and the 'page' for it just links back to the normal meth page which is kinda annoying. how do you add a page? Doxylamine (talk) 17:02, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

@Doxylamine Hello! If you are sure that this topic is notable, I would suggest creating a draft article for "Dextromethamphetamine" and when it is ready for the main namespace you can make a technical move request. Or alternatively, you can make a draft in your personal sandbox and then copy and paste it over the current redirect. Apmh 17:13, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

@Doxylamine I see that you have already started a discussion of this on the article's Talk Page. As Methamphetamine is classified as a good article, the issue of whether a fork is needed to the specific dextro compound has been discussed before and some are now archived. You need to seek consensus before working on a new draft, or you may be wasting your time. See chiral drugs for some of the chemical background. The dextro isomer would clearly be notable but that's not the issue in my opinion. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:38, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Why is social media very unreliable and non-credible media?

If social media, blogs, forums, wikis, and self-published websites are forbidden to cite on Wikipedia, would you give me a reason why is this unreliable? How much content are in social media altogether? Can you utilize it? 12.139.168.130 (talk) 03:54, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

TL;DR: people can just say unverifiable things on social media. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contribs)} 03:56, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Social media allows anyone to post anything they want. For example, I can say that the Earth is flat on Twitter. However, that does not mean that is true. Reliable sources need to be correct almost all of the times. Carpimaps ^{talk to me!} 11:33, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia gives preference to institutional reporting over individual reporting.

Institutions are easier to rule on and to hold accountable to truthful reporting.

Sources that align with liberal democratic values and do centrist reporting are preferred over sources with a different ideology. Bart Terpstra (talk) 18:40, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Amending incorrect information

I tried to delete material regarding the creation of the 16 Club. At the moment it says the 16 Club was created in the 19th century. In fact it was created in 1971 by myself and three other students. I don't understand why I can't correct this, please enlighten me. 92.18.222.44 (talk) 20:19, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

You removed sourced information from an article without explanation. It's not enough to say it's "false". If the sources given are in error, please provide an explanation as to why and any sources you have to support your claims. Are you sure you aren't talking about a different club from yours? 331dot (talk) 20:23, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Good day IP editor,

Please note that there was a citation that trumps most things about what you say. We cannot prove who you are on top of that. If you can find another source that says it was founded in 1971, then you might be able to change it. ✶Mitch199811✶ 20:27, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Courtesy - article is The 16' Club. David notMD (talk) 18:54, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Why no original research on Wikipedia?

Although Wikipedia is an encyclopedia about adding new information and adding content with sources cited, I know that it is an tertiary source. However, would you please explain why Wikipedia is not a place to add unreviewed research and original research to these articles? Why is that rule added in 2003? What are the only cases you can add original research in these articles? Thank you again. /EnjoyBrowser557 (userpage) (talk) (contributions) 17:02, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

@enjoybrowser557:

would you please explain why Wikipedia is not a place to add unreviewed research and original research to these articles?

because this was how wikipedia was decided to be.

What are the only cases you can add original research in these articles?

never. lettherebedarklight晚安 17:06, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

should probably add my 2 cents that only might derail this whole conversation before it inevitably gets closed

wikipedia's main role is to mention things that happen, how reliable sauces say they happen

if it did allow opinions and original research, there wouldn't be much incentive for saucing things, and this could very well devolve into a clone of tv tropes with slightly different formatting

could mention how this is related to trying to avoid coi editing, but that's going off-track cogsan • (give me attention) • (see my deeds) 18:03, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

...sourcing, not saucing

i can't believe i made this mistake again cogsan • (give me attention) • (see my deeds) 18:04, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

well, the op is blocked indef... lettherebedarklight晚安 18:05, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

that's

not an outcome i can say i expected from this situation cogsan • (give me attention) • (see my deeds) 18:07, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Because the editors decided amongst themselves Wikipedia should describe what exists in the world outside Wikipedia and not what is in the heads of the editors and not include arguments made by editors.

Wikipedia aims to be apolitical/centrist through enforcement of WP:NPOV, allowing users to make novel arguments and conclussions would undermine this, as basic as they might seem.

it also helps argue against people editing their own pages or inserting facts without citation.Bart Terpstra (talk) 18:51, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

The key to Wikipedia is that anyone can edit (except, apparently, now, not the person who started this discussion), but statements of fact must be verified by reliable source references. “You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.” ― Daniel Patrick Moynihan David notMD (talk) 19:04, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

What is a fact, reliable or notable are things that are created by social consensus of editors/by those with power.

They generally attempt to do this following the beliefs codified in the guidelines.

"There are no facts, only interpretations."

-Friedrich Nietzsche Bart Terpstra (talk) 19:16, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Having looked up the quote, it's funny you credit the person who popularized it, rather than the person who said it first or whom the credited person gives credit to for the phrase.

hitting home the point about subjectivity of facts XD Bart Terpstra (talk) 19:41, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

What hatnote would be the most appropriate to place here?

Forgive me for my inexperience with hatnotes, but I'm unsure which one to add to Joose.

I want to add a hatnote informing people that there's a band that Jack Stauber is in that has the same name.

It currently has the following hatnote:

This page is about the malt beverage. For the JavaScript-Framework, see Joose (framework).

Would this be appropriate?:

This page is about the malt beverage. For the JavaScript-Framework, see Joose (framework). For The band, see Jack Stauber.

--QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 20:51, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Helo, QuickQuokka. In my opinion, that is not an appropriate use of a hatnote; but I confess I cannot find the case discussed in WP:HATNOTE. ColinFine (talk) 20:56, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

@QuickQuokka: Welcome to Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 1190. It doesn't seem the band he was in has an article of its own, so there's no point in linking to Jack Stauber, where Joose is mentioned only once in the lede. I'd keep it as is. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 22:04, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Completely and utterly lost

Hi Wiki people,

For a newbie, this is definitely the most confusing and complex process I have ever come across. I have no idea if I've done everything correctly to ensure my article is in for review. (No idea why they're called articles when the entire planet calls them pages?).

So I've landed on a page that has a big yellow box at the top that says:

Review waiting, please be patient. This may take 4 months or more, since drafts are reviewed in no specific order. There are 4,744 pending submissions waiting for review. If the submission is accepted, then this page will be moved into the article space. If the submission is declined, then the reason will be posted here. In the meantime, you can continue to improve this submission by editing normally.

Well that's a wonderful surprise, only 4 months!

Anyway, at the bottom of the big header it says:

Warning: This page should probably be moved to the Draft namespace.

What on earth does that mean? One minute the page says review waiting - so I assume I've done something right. But then it says I should move it.

Please can someone help me ensure I haven't stuffed things up somehow - my blood pressure won't cope! 😁

Thanks so much, Jimmy. Santoman (talk) 14:24, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: User:Santoman/sandbox Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 14:27, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Santoman Hello and welcome. The "entire world" doesn't draw much of a distinction between a web page for Walmart and one for Wikipedia, but there is a difference. A "page" has a much broader meaning than an "article". Anyone can do anything on a "page" pretty much, that isn't the case with an article. An article summarizes what independent reliable sources say about the topic, and isn't for the benefit of the topic.

You have submitted your draft correctly. It can take four months or even more, but it could take less. This is because reviews are conducted by a limited number of volunteers in no particular order(there isn't a queue, a list that reviewers pick from based on their own criteria or even none at all).

Draft space is a designated area in which drafts can be created. This can be done in your sandbox too, but draft space is more compatible with the review process for various reasons. 331dot (talk) 14:30, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your welcome. That's the best explanation I've ever heard and makes complete sense. Coming from a copywriting background I get what you mean. Thanks for that. Great news on the draft - big relief. However, you didn't quite answer that last newbie question, do I need to move my article over to the Draft namespace as it's asking me to do, or just leave it? Santoman (talk) 14:41, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi Santoman it has already been moved to Draft:South Pacific WWII Museum and tweaked a bit. Cheers KylieTastic (talk) 14:44, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks again for your help. i really do appreciate it. Santoman (talk) 14:46, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

@Santoman You would be wise to remove what we call WP:PEACOCK language from the draft, as that is a red flag for reviewers that the article is being used to promote the museum, something forbidden on Wikipedia, not describe it in a neutral encyclopaedic tone. Please read these linked pages (and they are pages, since that's what we call everything that is not an article). Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:56, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

@Michael D. Turnbull thanks so much for the tips. I'll definitely fix anything that reads that way. I just have to figure out how you go back in to edit an article and then ensure it stays in the queue for review. Santoman (talk) 15:10, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Editing the draft while it awaits review is encouraged, and can be done by anyone intending to improve it to make it more likely to pass muster. As previously mentioned, articles awaiting review are in a heap, not a queue. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:25, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Santoman And now (29 May) it has been declined, reasons given. Yours to improve and resubmit (do not do the latter without the former). Usually, a resubmitted draft gets taken up by a different reviewer, so that person may have new reasons to decline. Again, not a queue, so could be hours, days, weeks, or sadly, months before next review. David notMD (talk) 18:45, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. Based on what everyone has said, I will be rewriting before resubmitting. 61.68.27.150 (talk) 22:38, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Sorry @David notMD I wasn't logged in, so my signature was just my IP address. Santoman (talk) 22:41, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

How do I start a wiki project?

I noticed wikiprojects seem surprisingly informal so I was thinking of starting a niche wikiproject dedicated to developing years in jazz articles or more broadly years in music if thats too specific. Is this a good idea for a wikiproject and if so how do I start one. It would be related to WP:Jazz and WP:YEARS Carolina Heart (talk) 19:21, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Instead of starting a new project why not work within the existing projects? 331dot (talk) 19:24, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Was thinking I could direct an increased activity to those pages with other editors Carolina Heart (talk) 19:41, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

@Carolina Heart I think @331dot is right. It's too niche, and could be done within WP:JAZZ. You could raise the idea there and link to it at WP:YEARS. Unless you have a few other editors with a genuine and seriously-expressed interest in working with you in that very topic area, it would be unwise to attempt to create a new WikiProject as it would soon die a death if there was not enough enthusiasm to sustain it. If you can't find those editors, then just continue working as you have been doing to improve those 'year' articles. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 19:41, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Ah, ok Carolina Heart (talk) 19:42, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Carolina Heart and welcome to the Teahouse, I agree with @Nick Moyes and @331dot I wouldn't want you to spend so hard on something just for it to die. Jack345110 (talk) 20:51, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Narrow focus is a commonplace error. Someone once started a Wikiproject about Higher Education in New York. I figured since there was not much happening in possible parental Wikiprojects such as Higher Education or New York, it was doomed. It indeed came to nothing. So, the place to ask is in the parental Wikiprojects where you would ask whether discussion about your topic is getting out of hand, growing so large that it interferes with other matters. Usually the answer is no. Cast your net large, and you might catch something good; a narrow net will net little if anything. Jim.henderson (talk) 22:57, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

How do I make a page in Wikipedia

I don't know how to make a page in Wikipedia, can you tell me how? TheReaperScythe1 (talk) 23:13, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

hi @TheReaperScythe1 and welcome to the Teahouse! what do you want to create an article about? before starting one, I recommend you read Notability (on what can get an article), Reliable sources (on what can be used to source the claims in your article), and Your first article (on writing the article itself). happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 00:07, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Please click and read this - the same applies to you.-1Firang (talk) 00:13, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Creating a link in the edit summary

In this edit, I was unable to create a link to what I wanted people to go and read, if they chose to (a particular section of the, "Talk page"), so please let me know how to create a link correctly in the edit summary.-1Firang (talk) 00:06, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

hi @1Firang and welcome to the Teahouse! the link you have created, Talk:Coerced religious conversion in Pakistan/Lower Protection to EC., links to a subpage of Talk:Coerced religious conversion in Pakistan that doesn't exist. the right way to link to subsections of a page is by using hashes: Talk:Coerced religious conversion in Pakistan#Lower Protection to EC. links to the relevant talk page discussion. happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 00:12, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you!-1Firang (talk) 00:16, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

So what if I want to link to a subsection? Will Talk:Coerced religious conversion in Pakistan#Lower Protection to EC.#Achieving consensus work?-1Firang (talk) 00:40, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

@1Firang: No, but Talk:Coerced_religious_conversion_in_Pakistan#Achieving_consensus should work. RudolfRed (talk) 00:43, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks a lot (it does)!-1Firang (talk) 00:46, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Plagiarism found in this article

Link: Ellesmere Park High School

I have found a specific section in this article which literally copies word for word from this website. The following passage from the article can be seen here:

"Local Education Authorities were required to submit proposals to the new Department of Education for reorganising secondary schooling in their areas.

Most LEAs aimed to establish the three main 'streams' or categories of school - grammar, secondary modern and technical - which had been recommended in a Report by Sir William Spens in 1938.

Children would be allocated on the basis of an examination at the age of 11, known as the Eleven-Plus. This was intended to provide equal opportunities for children of all backgrounds, though in reality this did not happen. LEAs were not co-ordinating and so percentage rates of passes were deemed inconsistent; and some would have leanings towards more passes for boys than girls despite girls proving the more intelligent at these younger ages, whilst the boys tended to overtake them later. The overall apportionment of places was deemed to be unfair.

Also, the school leaving age was raised to 15, though the stated intention that it should be 16 was not effected until 1972."

Most of the text shown here is plagiarized, and would it be wise to delete it on sight? Thanks, TrademarkedTarantula (talk) 05:02, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi TrademarkedTarantula. It would probably better for you to follow the guidance in Wikipedia:Text copyright violations 101 since deleting the content from the current version of the article is unlikely to be all that needs to be done. An administrator may need to go through the article's history and hide any versions which include the same content. Finally, it's also probably not a good idea to repost everything again on other pages because you're just making more things to clean up if it's truly plagiarism. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:28, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Publication of books

There are three books that/ which ought to be published: What is the criterion for the same. 197.250.225.233 (talk) 09:19, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. By "ought to be published" I assume you are speaking about creating articles for them. The crieria for books to meet in order to merit an article may be found at WP:NBOOK. You will need to gather at least three independent reliable sources to summarize in any article about a book. Writing a new article is very difficult, please see Your First Article. If you create an account, you may use the new user tutorial to learn more about Wikipedia and what we are looking for. 331dot (talk) 09:21, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

(e/c) This is a page for help with using and editing Wikipedia. We do not publish books. You would need to find yourself a publisher or publish them yourself. Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:25, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

WP:SELFCITE

Hello, so far I have never cited any of my published articles. Some of them are published in peer-reviewed academic journals. I was wondering, if I were to cite them, would I be required to disclose my identity on the article talk page or elsewhere? Per WP:SELFCITE, You will be permanently identified in the page history as the person who added the citation to your own work. Does this mean that I should disclose a WP:COI? Thank you for letting me know, Gitz (talk) (contribs) 09:13, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Gitz6666 Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Yes, if you intend to make edits citing your own work, you should disclose a conflict of interest. 331dot (talk) 09:14, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for the prompt reply. This clarifies the issue: I've never cited my work in the past and will never do so in the future. However, I'd suggest we write this explicitly in the relevant guideline. E.g., WP:SELFCITE could be Using material you have written or published is allowed within reason, but only if the conflict of interest has been disclosed and the material is relevant, conforms to the content policies, including WP:SELFPUB, and is not excessive. Shall I go for a bold edit or am I wrong? Gitz (talk) (contribs) 09:22, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

I would suggest that you propose your edit at Wikipedia talk:Conflict of interest, the talk page for that policy. 331dot (talk) 09:27, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Note that disclosure of unpaid COI is a "should", not a "must". So your proposed wording requires more than the policies require. Nevertheless, I agree with your change in principle. ColinFine (talk) 09:31, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you again for your suggestions. The thread is here. Gitz (talk) (contribs) 09:35, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Enabling IP information tool

how to enable this feature? Hypersonic man 11 (talk) 13:24, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

@hypersonic man 11: preferences > beta > ip information lettherebedarklight晚安 13:27, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

thx Hypersonic man 11 (talk) 12:13, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Difference

What is the Difference between Austria and the Austrian Soviet Socialist Republic— Preceding unsigned comment added by Santaclaus1993 (talk • contribs)

Santaclaus1993 Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. We have an article on Austria, but no article on a "Austrian Soviet Socialist Republic", probably because Austria was never part of the Soviet Union. I'm not clear on what your question is. 331dot (talk) 08:37, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

I wrote the above in response to your original posting. You're asking what the difference is- one existed, the other didn't. This page is for asking questions about using Wikipedia, general questions should be asked at the Reference Desk. 331dot (talk) 08:38, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Where could I create the arcticle of Austrian Soviet Socialist Republic ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Santaclaus1993 (talk • contribs) 08:46, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

it doesn't exist. don't. lettherebedarklight晚安 08:49, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Santaclaus1993 (ec) New accounts cannot directly create articles. Creating new articles is the most difficult task to attempt on Wikipedia, and as such we usually recommend that new users first gain experience and knowledge by using the new user tutorial and then editing existing articles in areas that interest them, to get a feel for how Wikipedia operates and what is expected of article content. However, if you still want to attempt to create a new article, you may use the article wizard.

Very curious as to what you will be writing about since as far as I know there has never been an entity called the "Austrian Soviet Socialist Republic". What sources do you have? 331dot (talk) 08:51, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

lettherebedarklight Things don't have to exist to have an article about them- but there must be coverage in reliable sources. 331dot (talk) 08:54, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

I have source about there was an Allied-occupied Austria. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Santaclaus1993 (talk • contribs) 08:56, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Santaclause1993 But that is not a "Austrian Soviet Socialist Republic". Austria was never part of the Soviet Union. 331dot (talk) 08:58, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Beside the Austrian Soviet Socialist Republic, I would also like to create arcticles about the East German Soviet Socialist Republic and the Norwegian Soviet Socialist Republic — Preceding unsigned comment added by Santaclaus1993 (talk • contribs)

Santaclaus1993 None of those things have ever existed or even attempted to exist, I think. We have an article on East Germany as well as Soviet occupation zone of Germany; it was never incorporated into the Soviet Union. You are a long ways from creating articles effectively and I suggest that you not attempt it until you are more familiar with our guidelines. 331dot (talk) 09:09, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Editor now indefinitely blocked. David notMD (talk) 13:22, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Converting

How to make a basic picture to become a Wikipedia pic? Santaclaus1993 (talk) 09:57, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

@Santaclaus1993: what is a "Wikipedia pic"? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:01, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia picture for sharing to Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Santaclaus1993 (talk • contribs) 10:02, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

@Santaclaus1993 Pictures you have taken with your own camera or images you personally have created should be uploaded to our sister Project, Wikimedia Commons, and licensed there for anyone to use, including within Wikipedia articles. Please click on this link for the full instructions. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:28, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

 Note: OP has been blocked. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 13:52, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Guides

Hello hosts! I got a reply a while back on the Teahouse for guides. I knew all of the stuff in there. By any chance do you know a few advanced Wikipedia guides? (That are up to date)

Thanks in advance! Wikihelper59 (talk) 13:34, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Wikihelper59, welcome to the Teahouse. Advanced guides here on Wikipedia tend to be specific rather than general (Help:How to move a page, Help:How to write the perfect "Did you know" hook, etc.). Is there a specific area you're interested in? 199.208.172.35 (talk) 14:26, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

@Wikihelper59 Hello, if you are looking for things to learn, there is a huge list of pages at Wikipedia:List of policies and guidelines. You don't need to read them all, though (unless you want to become a real Wikipedian (just kidding)) Apmh 15:32, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Is it possible for a topic to be notable in one language version but not notable in another?

I ask because there’s a music group that fulfils WP:NMUSIC, is very popular, has reliable sources that report on it and has an article on the Japanese Wikipedia, but I’m afraid it might be rejected for being non-notable if I create an English version because of heuristics and editors not being able to verify Japanese. Zipgyros (talk) 14:19, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Some Wikipedia languages may have much more lax notability than English Wikipedia. However, sources being in different languages is not an issue. Editors who speak Japanese would come to help. Carpimaps ^{talk to me!} 14:21, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

The group has been on the national music chart for Japan multiple times, which fulfils WP:NMUSIC in English. Zipgyros (talk) 14:22, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

@Zipgyros If you begin by translating the Japanese article, please note the guidelines at WP:TRANSLATE and WP:HOWTRANS. We prefer citations to English-language sources if there are alternatives available but that's not mandatory. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:33, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Alright, thank you! Zipgyros (talk) 17:44, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Notices are the top of an article about to be edited

I notice that some articles have "page notices" that appear at the top when editing the page (e.g. like on List of climbers and mountaineers). Am I, an ordinary editor, able to create such notices, or is that for an administrator? thanks. Aszx5000 (talk) 11:17, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

@Aszx5000 That notice comes from a template {{Editnotices/Page/List of climbers and mountaineers}} which happens to have been created by an admin. Template creation is a bit of a specialist art but I don' t think there is any requirement that such templates be made only by admins. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:23, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

@Aszx5000, Michael D. Turnbull I am afraid that this is incorrect. All editnotices, that is, pages under Template:Editnotice/, are automatically protected by the title blacklist. See Wikipedia:Editnotice for more info. Victor Schmidt mobil (talk) 12:38, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

@Victor Schmidt mobil Apologies, I was confused since some such templates are made by non-admins like pagemovers and template editors. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:45, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for that. Much appreciated. 17:51, 31 May 2023 (UTC) Aszx5000 (talk) 17:51, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Help!

Firsteval thanks for the invitation guys! I wrote an article and I was working for hours but it was unfortunately deleted. Currently, I am writing another article about a another person. I do not want the deletion order to be repeated with me. Is there anyone here who can help me in checking and improving the article? Normally I can write good enough because I am a developer :/, but it seems that writing on Wikipedia requires special skills. MarkScoopit (talk) 13:51, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @MarkScoopit, welcome to the Teahouse. Do you mean the draft at User:MarkScoopit/sandbox? 199.208.172.35 (talk) 14:22, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

thank you for your reply

yes I mean the person in my sandbox. MarkScoopit (talk) 19:21, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

@MarkScoopit: You would do well to read these essays on article creation: WP:YFA, WP:BACKWARD, WP:42. Failing to heed the advice in them will likely result in your attempts being deleted again. - UtherSRG (talk) 14:29, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Oke I will read them. MarkScoopit (talk) 19:22, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Question about citing in an article

How would one go about citing information in a bio article when the origin of the written information is unknown, or the information came from verbal comments of the subject? David (talk) 19:22, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

You don't. Wikipedia articles are based on Wikipedia:Reliable sources. Shantavira|^{feed me} 19:25, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, MR2David. In this circumstance, the information cannot be added to Wikipedia. That would violate the core content policies of Verifiability and No original research. Cullen328 (talk) 19:27, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

@MR2David The one exception might be an interview with the subject published in the form of something where you could use {{cite AV media}}. Still needs to be a reliable source and the qualifications at WP:ABOUTSELF apply. Mike Turnbull (talk) 19:34, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Help; IDK how to make a article

Hi i know what you're thinking, but i do not understand how to use the article wizard or any help article. You, Wikipedians could make 400 children happy by helping me make this article. I am entirely greatful if you could help me make: Birch Hill Primary School. I can give details and facts. Thank you.

IGotHacked12 (talk) 11:42, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello @IGotHacked12! What about the article wizard do you not understand? (You can find it at Help:Your first article if this is your question) Apmh 12:32, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

After you read WP:YFA as suggested by Apmh, I would suggest also WP:BACKWARD. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:48, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

@IGotHacked12 I assume that you are planning to write about the school that you attend in Bracknell. It is relatively unlikely that your school is notable in the way that Wikipedia requires. Please read that linked article or you may be wasting your time trying to draft something. You cannot base a draft on information you happen to know about the school, only on what has been published elsewhere in reliable sources meeting these golden rules. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:04, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

hi thank you, but i do plan to write this like for example brackenhale school has itself an article and yes it is unlikely to be notable however the school has (even i did not know) a very rich history. even the teachers are keen when i first told the plan to my class. (Dont worry i did not tell for sure). so im kinda between a rock and a hard place + i am known as the buissness guy in class so they are expecting something IGotHacked12 (talk) 20:00, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, IGotHacked12, and welcome to the Teahouse. I'm sorry if you're in a hard place, but if you cannot find sufficient reliable independent sources about your school, then an article on it is simply not possible, and every moment of time you spend on trying it will be time wasted. Please read WP:AMOUNT. Perhaps you can find another outlet to write the school's history. (see WP:OUT).

On another subject, if you haven't already read Guidance for younger editors, I strongly advise you to do so, for your own safety. ColinFine (talk) 20:20, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Was there a recent redesign?

I know there was a redesign a few months ago, but it suddenly looks slightly different. Was there a redesign a few hours ago or am I just going insane? Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 20:21, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

@Immanuelle, there has been A/B testing of a new design for logged-in users - see here, for example. You might be one of the lucky recipients. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:33, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

@Immanuelle: I don't think you're wrong. I noticed right away because it breaks how Wikipedia looks for me. QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 20:44, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Changing the appearance of my signature

My account is MR2David, and has been that way since I created it. Originally, my signature would reflect that, but now my signature simply says David. I've done nothing to make this change. This is not such a problem for me, but it is confusing for others. Is there a way to change my signature to reflect MR2David? David (talk) 19:29, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes, there is a way. WP:FANCYSIG explains how. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 19:36, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

@MR2David To get the simplest possible signature, simply go to Special:Preferences and remove anything in the signature box. (Don't forget to "save" the page. Mike Turnbull (talk) 19:38, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! I didn't realize that was there nor do I remember doing that. Let's see if it works. MR2David (talk) 20:51, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Is it possible to have an article/page about me deleted

Is it possible to have an article/page about me deleted Prince.james2000 (talk) 16:23, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Prince.james2000, welcome to the Teahouse. It may or may not be possible - it depends on the article. If it is well-referenced and the subject is obviously notable, it will stay. If it is poorly referenced, or if notability is in doubt, then it could be taken through one of Wikipedia's deletion processes. If the article you're concerned about is Shanita Namuyimbwa, I do not think it would be eligible for deletion, but I haven't checked the sources closely. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:36, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Prince james. I agree with 199. I would like to add that if you are indeed Shanita Namuyimbwa, then you have a conflict of interest, and should not edit the article directly at all but instead should make edit requests on the article's talk page, ColinFine (talk) 16:42, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

@ColinFine: I think a case can be made to delete it based on WP:1E; she played a major role in an otherwise minor event. ~Anachronist (talk) 18:28, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

This is one of those dilemmas: firstly we can never be sure whether a person claiming to be the subject of an article is really who they claim to be, and secondly when the subject of an article asks for removal of material reflecting negatively on them, the Wikipedia community is often uncooperative (for the very good reason that WP is here to reflect everything that's said about a person, not just the good stuff). Therefore, Prince.james2000, there is probably very little you can do about this article. If there are facts in the article that are wrong, and that you can demonstrate are wrong, based on reliable sources, you can ask for those facts to be corrected by posting an edit request on the talk page.

However, I do think the article looks like trivial gossip from the gossip-sphere of the society pages of the tabloid press, so I've nominated it at AfD (Articles for deletion) where its fate can be discussed. Prince.james2000, do remember that even if it is deleted, deletion is not necessarily final. If the article is deleted, and you, or anyone else, re-creates it, it is likely all the negative stuff will reappear. I'm not proposing to delete it to sanitise things ready for a re-branding.

Anyone else reading this, if you choose to get involved in the deletion debate, please treat it as a debate on the article, based on the merits of the article and its sourcing. Elemimele (talk) 20:59, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Any way to opt out of A/B testing on Wikipedia?

Dropdown menus not working as intended

I saw that recently, there has been a new experiment to once again change up the skin from Vector 2022 to something new called Zebra. This kind of messes up dropdown menus among other things. I have two questions:

1. Where should I report this bug properly? I know phabricator exists, but I have never used it before and have no idea how it works at all. Already reported it on the village pump to the wonderful Mr. Szymon Grabarczuk of the Wikimedia Foundation.
2. How do I opt out of future A/B testing (if possible)?

-- QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 20:54, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

@QuickQuokka, no one here is likely to know more than the VPT folks. I'd recommend asking your other questions there. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:59, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Moved to Wikipedia: Village pump (technical) § Any way to opt out of A/B testing on Wikipedia?

 – QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 21:05, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Misspelling or incorrect name?

I made redirects Dream Sweet in C Major, Dream Sweet in C-Major, and DSICM, which are all incorrect versions of Dream Sweet in Sea Major.

Should this be an {{R from misspelling}} or {{R from incorrect name}}? --QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 20:10, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

I'd suggest {{R from misspelling}} as you have now is perfectly fine - it isn't a big deal either way. The category Category:Redirects from misspellings is a subcategory of Category:Redirects from incorrect names anyway, so the two have almost identical functions. Tollens (talk) 21:42, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Copying references

I'm working on the history of a city. A book that I am citing has its own 'Notes' section in which references are given, and some reference multiple sources. For example, in citing the existence of a nickname, the author indicates: "For a sample of the designation, see x and y. For the city being commonly known by the appellation, see z."

My question is in two parts: first, if I wanted to include this level of detail in my citation, is copying the note a copyvio? Second, even if it isn't, is it preferable / more efficient in the majority of cases just to cite the book? Thanks in advance. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 22:04, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

It's perfectly acceptable to cite a source that itself cites other works. No attribution is required for the sources in the book - the book itself provides that attribution. You can cite the sources the book provides instead, but in that case you do need to make sure that the sources do actually support your statement, not just rely on the author of the book you are using to have correctly cited their sources. I would recommend paraphrasing the note to avoid any issues with copyright. Tollens (talk) 22:19, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

That's pretty much what I assumed, and what makes sense. Thanks for your help. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 22:26, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Contribution review help request

Requesting attention @ Special:Contributions/AlbaniaeDominus. Though account seems new most edits seem to cite relevant policies, same time some strange article moves and edits seem to be testing waters of WP policies. Range of doubtful edits is wide enough, I don't think capable of reviewing and taking up with user or different different talk pages alone and also confused which other forum would have been right. I am intimating the user of this discussion so they can benefit from inputs of other experienced users in this discussion. Bookku (talk) 02:26, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

<

Re https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evelyn_Mary_Macdonald

Hi, I am struggling to move this article from my Sandbox into the mainspace. The following message appears and I can't work out how to do either option: This sandbox is in the article namespace. Either move this page into your userspace, or remove the {{User sandbox}} template.

Sorry, appreciate this sounds like a stupid question. This is my second article, the first was part of the WP:SAGESBS course in March. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks Occupational Therapy History Matters (talk) 07:49, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

@occupational therapy history matters: as the message says, remove "{{user sandbox}}". lettherebedarklight晚安 07:52, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Occupational Therapy History Matters and welcome to the Teahouse. I've removed "{{user sandbox}}" and also white space from the top of the article. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 07:56, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Perfect, thank-you so much. Occupational Therapy History Matters (talk) 08:53, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

@Occupational Therapy History Matters I note that you used a Wikipedia page as a citation for her MBE. That's not a good source. The London Gazette has a website where you'll find the official announcement in their web archive. I don't have time at the moment to track this down myself. Mike Turnbull (talk) 08:58, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. I will track down Macdonald on the London Gazette. Occupational Therapy History Matters (talk) 09:15, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Reference formatting

Is there an easier way to format references so that it carries the information Wikipedians like to see in references ie author name, citeweb title, access date, date of article, etc. Does Wikipedia have a method to make the desired formatting easier or even automated? I do a lot of mobile editing and it is complicated to try and add those items. Thank you! PaulRKil (talk) 14:19, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

PaulRKil you can use WP:ReFill? WP:RefToolbar should also be auto-installed. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 14:45, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Changing the colour of my username

Please how do I change the colour in which my username is displayed to pink. JoS Josedimaria237 (talk) 12:15, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Josedimaria237 you can modify your signature at Special:Preferences. For instructions go to WP:CUSTOMSIG. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 13:56, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

@Sungodtemple: No, I am not talking of the signature. I mean the colour in which my username appears on the signature. Josedimaria237 (talk)

@Josedimaria237: Welcome to Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 1190. What Sungodtemple told you is correct. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 14:40, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Josedimaria237 to change the color in which your username appears on your signature you have to modify your signature. <span style="color: pink;">my_username</span> -> my_username. Copy paste this into the box for the custom signature to change the color. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 14:43, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

@Sungodtemple: Ok, got it. Thank you. Josedimaria237 (talk) 14:52, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

New article

Hi. I've been trying to create an article about a film called My Friend Vince. The film, made in 1974, is distributed by the Canadian Film Makers Distribution Center. It was reviewed by a now-defunct magazine called Cinema Canada and mentioned in an academic paper and a reviewer in Tennessee. All of the above is noted in a draft page that I wrote and was taken down because I did not edit the page within the six month limit.

I did not edit the page because there was another article written about the film in another now-defunct magazine, of which I have a scanned copy, but which is not dated.I was hoping to retrieve the issue from the national archives in order to get the date, but after more than six months trying, have learned that the particular issue is one of several issues that have been lost. Do I have enough information to have the article posted? Attributed2 (talk) 14:50, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

I doubt it, but please read Wikipedia:Notability (films) and decide for yourself. Shantavira|^{feed me} 15:28, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

@Attributed2 If you haven't checked already, some of the hits here [2] may be of use. Per WP:GNG you need better than passing mentions. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:05, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

[3][4] should help your case a bit. You can try asking about your source at WP:RX. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:17, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

The guidelines to permanently suspend a draft.

What are the guidelines to permanently suspend a draft? Please reply. Thanks. 2A02:C7C:5058:3900:B47D:D4CF:90CB:1C90 (talk) 13:10, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello, and welcome to the Teahouse. I'm afraid that I don't know what you mean. We don't have a concept of "suspending a draft" as far as I'm aware. ColinFine (talk) 14:03, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Are you asking about a draft you have created - perhaps as a logged in account? Or someone else's draft? "Suspend" or delete? David notMD (talk) 17:53, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

If you don’t want to work on a draft anymore then just leave it be and someone else may fix it. If you made the draft then do a g7 speedy deletion if you want to get rid of it. If it severely violates rules such as blp then tag it for speedy deletion or miscellany for deletion based on that. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 18:12, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Second sandbox

How do I make a second sandbox? ✠ Robertus Pius ✠ (Talk • Contribs) 19:04, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

@Orson12345: Welcome to Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 1190. The simplest way to do so is to change the subpage name in your browser's address bar. For example, if your sandbox is at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Robertus_Pius/sandbox, you can make a second by turning sandbox to sandbox2 or whatever you want to name your new subpage. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 19:08, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi Robertus Pius and welcome to the Teahouse. Just go to your user page and in the address bar of your browser add something like /sandbox2 onto the URL, so you have ... User:Whoever/sandbox2. Go to that page and when told it doesn't exist, create it. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 19:11, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

@Esowteric: @Tenryuu: That worked perfectly, thanks for the help! ✠ Robertus Pius ✠ (Talk • Contribs) 19:19, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Article title italics and parentheses

The standard method of italicizing a title for an article about a work of art is to use the italic title code. There are a few examples of works of art whose full titles include parentheses, including "Untitled" (Perfect Lovers). The italic title tool automatically de-italicizes the words in parentheses, I assume because this is often where articles with generic names would indicate who made the piece or what the medium is. Is there a way to make the entire article title italicized? Wondering if anyone else has run into this issue/what should be done in cases like this. --19h00s (talk) 20:17, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi, 19h00s and welcome to the Teahouse. Not an answer, but is Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Titles of works#Italicizing Wikipedia article titles any help? Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 20:24, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

That is exactly what I was looking for! Thank you, didn't see that when I was searching the MOS earlier :) 19h00s (talk) 20:28, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

trying to log on

I am searching for a way to solve this problem, which does not seem to fit any existing category. so i will just explain the situation.

My name is John D. Bengtson (there is a Wikipedia article about me) and I have lived in Minnesota for about 58 years, and do not recall ever needing to log in to Wikipedia or create a login account (or perhaps I did, long ago). I am trying to establish a winter home here in Tucson, AZ, where, I understand, I must login to Wikipedia. So I went to "create new account" and the first step was "enter username name." I automatically entered "jdbengt" and the reply was "your login name is too similar to an existing username "JDBengt" - please choose a different username." HMMM - since I doubt there are a lot of John D. Bengtsons, who would automatically enter "jdbengt" as a username - thought "maybe this "JDBengt" was my original username." If, as is most likely, I did this over 20 years ago, I would have had a different email address (I think it was "jdbengt@ softhome.net") and any Wikipedia administrator would have no way to contact me on how to etablish a new account. Who can help me with this? Thanks for any help! jdbengt 67.128.205.114 (talk) 23:45, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

If you no longer have access to the email, then there is no way to reset the password. You will need to create a new account. I am unclear why living in Tuscon requires a Wikipedia account. RudolfRed (talk) 00:24, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Perhaps John D. Bengtson's IP address is rangeblocked. Cullen328 (talk) 00:29, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi IP 67.128.205.114. There is an account User:JDBengt, but it hasn't been used since April 2006. Do you remember making any of these edits? If that was you, and you can't remember your password or the password retrieval process isn't working, then you may just have to create a new account if that's what you want to do. You can mention on your new account that you used to edit as "JDBengt", but you probably will need to pick a new username that's slightly different; for example, jdbengt2 might work. Regardless of what you end up doing, if you're looking to edit John Bengtson or any other articles which contain content about you, you probably should carefully read through WP:BIOSELF and WP:COI first. Please understand, as odd as it might seem, Wikipedia would consider you to have a conflict of interest when it comes to Wikipedia content about you, and thus highly discourages you from trying to edit or create such content. This conflict of interest applies to you as an individual regardless of which account you use or whether you simply use an IP address to edit. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:39, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

I forgot my password

Help 2600:1008:B1A3:DF9B:5CDD:90FF:FEA7:A730 (talk) 13:58, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

See Help:Logging in#What if I forget the password? Lectonar (talk) 14:04, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello, and welcome to the Teahouse. If you attached an email address to your account, and you still have access to that email address, then you can ask for a password reset via that email. Otherwise I'm afraid there is no way to recover your account, and you'll need to create a new one. ColinFine (talk) 14:04, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

If you have to make a new account, make sure you explain on your new account that you forgot your password on the old one to avoid sockpuppetry concerns. Cwater1 (talk) 02:41, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Best practices to edit Infobox

Hi everyone, I'd like to know if there's an ideal/preferred way to make edits to infoboxes if needed? It would be great if there's a view similar to the visual view to make these edits.

I came across this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Infobox, but im wondering if there are other links I can review/including a video from Youtube where possible?

Thanks in advance. Shehandd (talk) 15:20, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Shehandd, and welcome to the Teahouse. Try Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Infoboxes for some more advice. ContributeToTheWiki (talk • contribs) 16:51, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

@Shehandd: Hi there! I haven't looked for a video, but try this:

1. Go to the article you want to edit (e.g. Bruce Springsteen)
2. At the top right of the article, click "Edit" to edit with the VisualEditor.
3. Click anywhere in the infobox.
4. In the "Template" window that appears, click the "Edit" button.
5. In the "Edit: Infobox" window that appears, you can use the checkboxes on the left to indicate which fields should appear in the infobox.
6. In the right side of the window, you can type what values you want for each of the fields.
7. When you're done editing the infobox, click the "Apply changes" button at the top right of the window.
8. When you're done editing the article, click the "Publish changes..." button at the top right of the article.
9. In the "Save your changes" window that appears, type your edit summary (e.g. updated infobox data) and click the "Publish changes" box.

Hope this helps! GoingBatty (talk) 04:23, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Where do American Airline arriving planes land at O'Hare Airport?

Answer - which terminal? 2601:246:4904:E20:D1B5:CD8B:690:2BA (talk) 01:55, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Welcome to a page where people ask questions about using Wikipedia. Your question is very different. I imagine that the answer will be found either within the airline's website or within the airport's website. -- Hoary (talk) 02:20, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

There is a travel section at Wikipedia:Reference_desk which is a better place for your question, if your favorite search engine can't help. RudolfRed (talk) 02:22, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Terminal 3.

The user name has been blacklisted (talk) 04:30, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Concern over biased editing of new article by activists

Hi Teahouse Hosts,

I am planning to write a new article on Wikipedia and would like to know how you handle biased activists. I have already written some articles on the German Wikipedia, so I am familiar with the basics. However, the topic of this new article is about animal research, which is a controversial subject in the public eye and may attract activists. I am concerned that the article might be vandalized with biased edits, and, most importantly, that I won't be able to undo such edits. Don't misunderstand me, I welcome constructive criticism in this article or in real life, as a matter of fact – I am a vegetarian for ethical reasons. However, as a researcher working with animals, I have experienced that a small but vocal group of people are not concerned with facts but rather intend to promote their own agenda. I have read the Wikipedia help section on dealing with activists. However, I would really like to know firsthand experience of how the English Wikipedia community handles such activist editing. I greatly appreciate your insights. Thank you for your support! S.Y.M.B.I.O.N.T. (talk) 12:52, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Well...on a case by case basis; here, we don't even know yet what you will write about. If vandalism occurs, it will be dealt with with the usual instruments: escalating warnings which may results in blocks, and page protection, amongst others (on the Wikipedia:Activist page, when you scroll down to the end, you can see a whole list of linked arbitration cases: that's what it may come to in rare cases, but it's the exception, not the rule) . As you mentioned having edited in DE-Wikipedia: be so kind and have a good read-up of our policies, as things are done somewhat differently hereabouts. Lectonar (talk) 13:57, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Might want to see WP:PREEMPTIVE. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 14:44, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, Lectonar! Also for recommending to pay attention to the different policies to the German Wikipedia. Indeed, I did not realize that they are different and will keep that in mind. Sorry for omitting the topic of my intended article. It will be about the International Society for Transgenic Technologies (ISTT), an organization advancing knowledge exchange and education regarding genetically engineered animals. They have already been mentioned in other WP articles and, of course, research articles, but no WP page exists yet. Thanks, Sungodtemple for the link to WP:PREEMPTIVE as well. Appreciated! S.Y.M.B.I.O.N.T. (talk) 15:31, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

English Wikipedia makes a distnction between vandalism and good faith edits - what you might consider a biased point of view would fall under the latter - best taken up by having a discussion on the Talk page of the article. Good advice offered above if problems persist. David notMD (talk) 17:45, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much. You are right. It would indeed not be vandalism but an edit in good faith. Good point to first try to discuss this on the Talk page of the article and only to escalate the issue if that fails.

Thank you @Lectonar, @David notMD and @Sungodtemple again for your support. You helped me a lot. Great work you are doing here. S.Y.M.B.I.O.N.T. (talk) 05:35, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

I want my Account auto confirmed

my account is 6 months and i did 10 edits Aisamiscool8315 (talk) 08:36, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Aisamiscool8315, there's a hint in the name, autoconfirmed. It happened automatically yesterday. Cabayi (talk) 08:42, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

@Aisamiscool8315 and Cabayi: Just as a tip: Extended Confirmed is also granted automatically . --QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 09:13, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Bug in Bulgarian Wikipedia

Bug

On the mobile version of the Bulgarian Wikipedia, my friend noticed a strange bug on the map on the page of the oblasts of Bulgaria. This is the template for {{Карта на Областите в България}} --QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 09:29, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello, and welcome to the Teahouse. This forum is specifically for the English Wikipedia, and doesn't deal with the Bulgarian Wikipedia. Their embassy may help if you don't speak Bulgarian. JML1148 (talk | contribs) 09:36, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

I do speak Bulgarian, but I'm not confident enough in my skills to actually discuss in Bulgarian, so I'll use the embassy like you suggested --QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 10:30, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Moved to Уикипедия беседа:Посолство § Bug in Bulgarian Wikipedia on the Bulgarian Wikipedia

 – QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 10:30, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Regarding wikipedia account

Speedy Deletion Content Shubham Sandesh (talk) 10:31, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

@Shubham Sandesh: See criteria for speedy deletion. It would help if you tell me the name of the article you want deleted and the reason. QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 10:35, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

@Shubham Sandesh: Looking at your talk page, I see that your userpage has been speedy-deleted due to criteria U5 (Misusing Wikipedia as a webhost).

That probably means that you were misusing your userpage as something not related to our goals.

See this page to help you build a better, more constructive userpage, and this page, so you know what not to do in the future. --QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 10:40, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Please add this

I wrote something about Eliza Dushku as Catwoman in Batman v Superman talk page, but no one has replied. She was considered to portray the character and it should be included in the article, in the part of "Casting". 201.188.149.37 (talk) 00:10, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 1190. You'll get more eyes on your request if you use the edit request system. Click on the aforementioned link for more details. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 00:48, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello. Eliza Dushku was the Catwoman voice actress in the 2011 short animated film DC Showcase: Catwoman. She did not appear in Batman v Superman. Cullen328 (talk) 00:50, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

I know that she didn't appear in BvS and that she appeared in DC Showcase: Catwoman. What i meant is that she was considered for BvS. I put the sources in the talk page of Batman v Superman 201.188.149.37 (talk) 01:02, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Tenryuu's suggestion above is a good one. -- Hoary (talk) 01:50, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi there! In your post on Talk:Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice#Another actress was also considered for Catwoman, you provided some sources but didn't make any request. When you're adding the {{edit request}} template, you could also suggest that something be added to the "Casting" section, and even make a suggestion for the exact wording to be used. Or, you could be bold and add the information yourself (presuming you don't have any conflict of interest). WP:EASYREFBEGIN has a short video showing how you can use those sources as citations. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 04:10, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

I would do it, but i don't have an account 201.188.149.37 (talk) 06:40, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

In which case you should use the {{edit request}} template on the talk page. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 10:47, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Requesting an artile be merged into another

How do I request an article be merged into another article? If I can do this as an editor without an account, I do not know how to. 2A00:23C6:938B:DC01:951C:6248:D383:1281 (talk) 12:03, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

• Hi, the page your looking for is Wikipedia:Merging and no you do not need an account to make such a request. Regards KylieTastic (talk) 12:10, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Rare Wikifauna

What species is the rarest/most endangered of all Wikifauna? Ifteebd10 (talk) 11:47, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Ifteebd10, welcome to the Teahouse. Since WikiFauna are entirely fictional, there's no way to answer your question except, perhaps, by counting the number of editors which have the various userboxes on their user pages, if anyone wants to give that a shot. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 14:08, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Somewhere there is an editor who never makes mistakes, finds really good sources for everything they have ever written (and for things that others have failed to source), who partakes in AfD debates with perfect impartiality and calm, and who welcomes new editors with unstinting kindness and unerring practical support. This editor is the WikiUnicorn, and has yet to be found. Elemimele (talk) 16:15, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Help creating a wikipedia personal profile page

Trying to create a page - personal profile for information. Unable to see how I can publish and get the page live. I need to amend the 'Username' on the page so it is just a name as well. Struggling to get this sorted. Can you help? Michael Leiters McLaren (talk) 13:37, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

@michael leiters mclaren: please don't. autobiographies are not allowed here. apparently you are not this person, but conflict-of-interest editing is still strongly discouraged. lettherebedarklight晚安 13:43, 2 June 2023 (UTC) (edited 13:53, 2 June 2023 (UTC))

On the contrary, autobiographies are allowed - just strongly discouraged. In any case, the OP has been blocked. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 13:50, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

they're essentially disallowed by the community. lettherebedarklight晚安 13:53, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

We tell people it's a bad idea (which it is) and they should go through WP:AfC if they want to try anyway (which they should), but that's not the same thing. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 13:57, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Michael Leiters McLaren is only blocked for a violation of the username policy.
There is no policy against autobiographies, however 99.95% of the time (or something like that), they are a lost cause... Apmh 14:22, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

The other point to realise (once you've changed your name and declared your COI) is that Wikipedia is not interested in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is only interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources. (That's why don't call articles "profiles"). What you'll need to do is to find such independent sources (not one of sources you list in your draft is independent of Leiters) and then forget everything you know about him and write an article based on what those sources say. Do you see why we say it's difficult to write an article about somebody you know, and almost impossible to write one about yourself? ColinFine (talk) 16:34, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Draft now at Draft:Michael Leiters. The creating editor @User:Michael Leiters McLaren is blocked until achieves name change and then declares COI on User page. David notMD (talk) 15:04, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

How would I combine a connecting subject into in article?

How could I combine a connecting subject into in article if they are both on the same subject; like a category? Reese82R (talk) 17:45, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Reese82R. Can you be more specific with your question? Providing an example would be helpful. Cullen328 (talk) 17:47, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

The article I am asking in this case is my draft. Draft:Ro-Aviation It has 2 subjects that make up the entirety of the group in a whole. Reese82R (talk) 17:52, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

@Reese82R your question is very vague, you need to be much more specific. Please mention the article and the subjects you wish to link. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 17:49, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

This Draft:Ro-Aviation Reese82R (talk) 17:56, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

And the two groups that make it. Airlines & Tech Companies. Reese82R (talk) 17:57, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Reese. I'm afraid that I still don't get what you are asking. Are you asking about which categories the article belongs in? If that's what you mean, that's like worrying about painting the windows before you've built the house - or even surveyed the site.

Your draft has no chance of being accepted in its present form because you have written it backwards - as most people do who try to write an article when they haven't much experience of editing Wikipedia. It looks as if you have written down what you know about your subject. I'm sorry, but Wikipedia isn't interested in what you know about a subject. (It isn't interested in what I know or Cullen knows or Roger knows either). Wikipedia is only interested in what reliable published sources have said about a subject, and all the material in an article should come from such sources. ColinFine (talk) 18:15, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

@Reese82R: Wikipedia requires topics to be notable to be considered worthy of inclusion. I am sorry to say but this interest group simply does not meet the notability criteria as outlined at Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies). Gaming communities rarely, if ever, gain enough significant coverage from reliable sources to be considered notable to a general audience. This would be true of any niche interest. --Drm310 🍁 (talk) 17:01, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Question about track listings

I'm writing something about Absent Moon, A Hylics Song Cycle on the article for Hylics, and I want to include a track listing using the template {{Track listing}}. My question is this: Should I have the title of the songs like "The Champion of Ennui / Into the Pastel Sky (feat. Vinny Vinesauce and Diane Aragona)" or should I omit the credits, and just add it in a column for lead vocals or something? QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 19:47, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello @QuickQuokka - To comply with WP:OR, always name it based on what the source(s) you are using (if any, hopefully) call it.

You also probably linked to the wrong article (I think you mean Hylics (video game)), however looking at Hylics it doesn't seem notable at all... Maybe someone should start an AfD? -- Apmh 20:08, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

@Apmh: Whoops sorry I kinda messed up on this comment, however I am editing on Hylics (video game) --QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 20:11, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

No problem at all @QuickQuokka! (And it's me, I'm the someone who will start an AfD) Apmh 20:15, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Question - List article or Disambiguation?

Today at "New pages feed" there are two articles that I updated as Disambig. and now having second thoughts - should they be changed to "List" instead?

• Karunanidhi ministry
• Patwa ministry

Plus two more articles that I've not changed. Please let me know which is the better/correct way to handle these. Regards, JoeNMLC (talk) 19:23, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

@JoeNMLC: It does in fact suit a list more. But there should also be info on the list page about what "Karunanidhi ministry" actually is, same goes for Patwa (also, what is up with "As C. N. Annadurai breath his last ..."?) -- Apmh 19:50, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

@JoeNMLC and Apmh: Well, that is very clearly a euphemism, which is on the list of words to watch, so I'll need to edit that out. QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 20:03, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

@User:Apmh: Thanks for the feedback. I'm learning something new each day. Yes, that lead for "First Karunanidhi ministry" really does need a rewrite. Thanks. JoeNMLC (talk) 20:04, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

@Apmh and QuickQuokka: After a second look, I'm wondering if that Karunanidhi ministry article should redirect to Muthuvel Karunanidhi article where each of those ministry details reside? JoeNMLC (talk) 20:16, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Is Consensus required to add a POV tag?

To be more specific, if there were previous RfCs that addressed a related topic, but did not specifically address a perceived possible neutrality issue, is it correct to say that adding said tag would go against previous consensus that wasn't specifically about neutrality, or that consensus is required to add the tag even if there is RS that possibly shows a conflict with other RS, but only one side is presented in Wikivoice? I would prefer not to be much more specific as to avoid CANVAS. DN (talk) 20:38, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Darknipples. No consensus is required to add a POV tag, but consensus is required to keep it if it is challenged. Previous discussions that did not involve the Neutral point of view are probably not relevant. Cullen328 (talk) 20:55, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Lilly Yokoi

Draft:Lilly Yokoi (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) Help please. It's just some woman who was sorta famous for riding a bicycle in the 1960s.

Really no big deal, but Jesus Christ, it's hard to get Wikipedia to allow stuff.

It meets ALL your criteria. GNG, N, RS, and any other acronyms you'd like to throw at me.

Couldn't get it passed as a draft, so made an account.

Still can't get it through.

So many hurdles. The user name has been blacklisted (talk) 02:34, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Edit: I made an account, because I thought that might help.

I know it's a silly name, but I copy/pasted.

I asked for help on the webchat thing, and got banned - I've no idea why. — Preceding unsigned comment added by The user name has been blacklisted (talk • contribs) 02:55, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

You were banned by AmandaNP for being rude to the person helping you (DragonflySixtyseven), more or less. I dream of horses ^{(Contribs) (Talk)} 03:00, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi.

Please can you show the text of me "being rude".

You can't, because I wasn't.

The user name has been blacklisted (talk) 03:12, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

@The user name has been blacklisted You literally told DragonflySixtyseven to "feel free to go away" towards the end there. I dream of horses ^{(Contribs) (Talk)} 03:15, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

"feel free to go away" isn't exactly profane, is it?

Jesus fucking Christ. The user name has been blacklisted (talk) 03:16, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

No, OP, "feel free to go away" isn't even hazily "profane". But many people have a dislike of the word "fucking", which anyway can be dropped with no loss of meaning. So, can we please skip the eruptions of indignation? Now, the draft tells us: "Lilly Yokoi was a bicycle-riding acrobatic performer during the 1960s and 70s." And it backs this up with eight sources. The first of these is this at Circopedia. Circopedia uses Mediawiki software, associated with unreliable sources; but I see no evidence there that the material is "user generated". I'm willing to be persuaded that I'm wrong (pinging Theroadislong!), but I'll start with the assumption that it's a reliable source. It's informative about Yokoi. The draft now tells us nothing whatever about how she was acrobatic. So, please tell the reader something! Oh, and if you want to make friends and influence people (or at least avoid befuddling them and pissing some of them off), then abandon your gently humorous username and instead adopt some boring, anodyne sort of name. -- Hoary (talk) 05:10, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

I tried, but they won't let me

164.39.85.124 (talk) 21:39, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Should history articles be divided in sections related to personalities

I am trying to clean up History of fluid mechanics, which divides the whole article by scientists. Other similar articles like History of astronomy are based on topics and periods. Is there any guidelines regarding this? Would it be better not to center historical articles into personalities? ReyHahn (talk) 14:25, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

@ReyHahn: The addition of these person-based sections goes all the way back to 2009 and will probably require a discussion to modify. I definitely suggest trying to reach consensus on the article's talk page. Apmh 14:35, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

I already contacted WP:Wikiproject Physics I was just looking for additional input, the article might need to be fully rewritten to improve the prose.--ReyHahn (talk) 14:37, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

@ReyHahn: If you think rewriting the article is for the better, I would create a new page with the same title in the draft namespace and then build the draft from there. This way the original article will not be disturbed in the proccess. Apmh 14:48, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Hey. How do you contact a project page? Im trying to contact Wikiprojects Politics but can't see any way to post anything on their project page? Or are you just posting on their talk page? Cause I thought that might be about the project page itself or something? Thanks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Politics) CompromisingSuggestion (talk) 04:13, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Wrong advice. Wikipedia is strongly against replacing acticles with new versions. I agree with a need for a discusson first. David notMD (talk) 17:59, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

I interpreted Apmh to mean that the draft is to show what the proposed changes would look like—to ensure everyone in the discussion is on the same page. The changes would, of course, only be implemented if there were consensus for them. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 20:37, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Separately, in my opinon there is far too much about the physics of fluid mechanics that properly belongs in that article, not this one. David notMD (talk) 18:03, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

What can you do when you feel bullied by other editors?

Hi. I've from time to time tried to engage with Wikipedia but it's not gone well for me except for one time when I edited about my town and companies in it and culture and such. Then it went splendid. A lot of topics are so infected that I have a hard time navigating things in a proper way because the bureaucracy is so complicated. This time around I really tried to from the start be both assertive but humble and open and to try and bridge a gap between two groups that are really at each others throats. And all three responses I've goten are a combination of the above.

The first response misrepresented my suggestion as already answered by a FAQ. I replied and the person hasn't replied back, I doubt they will. But am I allowed to then remove the FAQ that they added or not? Especially as its visible just above my question for someone else that asked something?

The second answer didn't provide any constructive criticism what so ever on how to make the leading headline a bit more balanced or NPOV and just added a lot more things he doesn't like about the person the article is about essentially saying "he doesn't deserve a balanced article" at best.

The last one is the worst. It reeks of a superiority complex, it kinda twists my words in a subtle way to make me look stupid and then tells me my suggestion is "unserious" even though I spent over a hour making it and editing it because my english isnt the best and then says interacting with me is a waste of time.

Well why is he interacting with me then? How do I even deal with that? How do I not insult him back? Is that what he wants? What should I do?

What do you think of my suggestion in general? I wanted people to focus on constructive criticism and for editors who know better than me to advocate with the help of Wikipolicies that I am not very familiar with but so far a newb like me is the only one that's even mentioned a few policies.

(Talk:Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (add a dot since the dot is removed in internal Wikipedia Links it seems) - its at the bottom called "Compromising suggestion") CompromisingSuggestion (talk) 20:14, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello, CompromisingSuggestion. This is about Talk:Robert F. Kennedy Jr.. I am not sure what you mean about the dot.

You have chosen to get involved with a biography of a highly controversial and polarizing person, and are trying to relitigate content that has been debated at great length for many years. You are not being bullied. Other editors are objecting to your proposed changes quite vigorously, but that is not bullying. With all due respect, your comments there about John Wilkes Booth are silly in my opinion, and make you look uninformed. My suggestion is that you gain more experience editing less contentious topics for a while, before jumping into the deep end of the pool. Cullen328 (talk) 20:42, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

While the way the other editor on the talk page has phrased their argument is perhaps not as kind as it could be, their argument is perfectly reasonable, and I agree with it. I would suggest that you take a look at the neutral point of view policy, in particular the section on due and undue weight. The goal is to portray an article subject in the same way as they are portrayed in reliable sources, not to portray each of their activities with the exact same amount of weight as each other. In terms of your suggested though he rejects the label himself, I would strongly suggest reading through the essay on the neutral point of view policy Wikipedia:Mandy Rice-Davies applies, which goes into detail on this exact topic. Tollens (talk) 20:46, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

I didn't know what I'd tell him. He misconstrued my suggestion as something it is not and got me to debate him. I should have probably ignored him. As the premise is wrong to begin with. I tried to assert that the notability of RFK's environmental and humanitarian work is more notable than the vaccine stuff which clearly isn't the case with Boothe's career as an actor. But then I got baited into answer each of his points. I don't take things out of context like other people do with me and I try to answer everything. This is a fault, most people focus on what part of someones argument they can crush and then ignore everything else instead of staying objective. I am truly trying to argue in good faith but I dont think they are.

I really feel bullied and misrepresented.

I am being outmost polite, it is an extremely contentious issue, it keeps coming back constantly, it's not settled and my statements get misrepresented while my suggestion gets called unserious and engaging with me a waste of time. If I went to debate someone, gave them a monologue and then told them "this is a waste of time", what is that other person supposed to do?

If I tell someone that I want to add to an article about milk that milk can be placed in a containers of any color and then get told that my suggestion that milk isn't white has already been addressed, isn't that facetious? Isn't that exactly what the first person who dragged the FAQ up is doing?

If these are more experienced editors, shuldn't they know this? PS: The issue with the link for me is that when I click on it I get to the talk page of RFK Jr which doesnt exist as the one that exists is RFK Jr. WIth a dot :P If it works for you thats great news!

CompromisingSuggestion (talk) 20:51, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

The issue is that you have not supported your assertion that the lead places undue weight on his activities. He is described similarly to how the article describes him now in reliable sources - to change this, you would need to demonstrate that a majority of recently-published reliable sources place less weight on his promotion of health-related conspiracy theories than they do his environmental activism. Without that evidence, going into far greater detail on one topic than the other is undue weight. I acknowledge that you're acting in good faith and that you feel like the other editor on the talk page may not be, but we have a policy of assuming good faith on the part of others - the other editor is much more likely acting in good faith than out of malice. Their pointing to existing consensus is perfectly reasonable, as it demonstrates that there are a number of editors that already agree on the existing wording. You don't have to engage with them further, but you would need to establish a new consensus somehow before making the changes you propose. Tollens (talk) 21:05, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Sorry to be pedantic, CompromisingSuggestion, but if you want to use initials, the correct ones are RFK Jr. Accuracy is an important skill for encyclopedia editors to develop. As for Booth, he had been an exceptionally famous actor and a national celebrity for ten years before he assassinated Lincoln. Cullen328 (talk) 21:22, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Nono Thanks so much, I dont know I had a brainfreeze lol. Its so much to think about when replying and a lot of answers coming in fast. But look at your reply though. This is exactly what pains me. I give you a long reply with a whole lot of different pointers and examples and all you take is a little snippet and reply to that. What about the milk example? What about the debate example? Why wont you answer this? Why do you take a little part of my argument and then answer it out of context. If Boothe was so popular then I think yes, just like if Miss America or Paris Hilton killed the president today then it should be mentioned somewhere in the lead that a "A renowned celebrity before the murder, etc etc". Something should be said about it obviously. Why is this so controversial? But yes, I dont think that a murder of a president compares in notability, as I said I have metrics that show that his notability for environmental issues is higher than for vaccines. What's worse we've migrated the RFK Jr discussion here, which is kinda good if I can get at least some constructive criticism on that here but it then completely ignores my original question which is what I can do if I feel bullied by other users and how isn't calling someones thoughts and interactions "useless" and a "waste of time" bullying? CompromisingSuggestion (talk) 21:24, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi Tollens, my previous reply was to Cullen. I hope that you or they can address the specifics.

I Read the Mandy Rice Davies article. Nobody has asserted that it is in RFK Jrs "obvious interest" to deny this. The vaccine issue is an extremely contentious subject and if his supporters agree with his stance on vaccines then that would hurt his popularity among them.

Several sources recognise his denial through them completely omitting a mention of him being an anti-vaccine propagandist.

For example: https://drdrew.com/2023/robert-f-kennedy-jr-live-big-pharma-the-opioid-crisis-the-durham-report-the-2024-us-presidential-election-w-dr-kelly-victory-ask-dr-drew/

For example "RFK jr is an attorney and a 2024 US Presidential Candidate. He is a graduate of Harvard University, studied at the London School of Economics, and received his law degree from the University of Virginia Law School. He served on the Pace Law School faculty from 1986 to 2018 and cofounded and supervised Pace’s Environmental Litigation Clinic.".

https://podcasts.apple.com/no/podcast/fauci-vaccines-and-big-pharmas-power-robert-f-kennedy/id1532976305?i=1000554759192

I really don't know how to deal with this. It was precisely such a situation that I gave up on the last time I left Wikipedia. I had several academic sources that called something B (the article had sources calling it A). I argued that B excludes A either on the basis that A cannot be B simultaneously or that B is what he is notable for. But I felt trapped by the policies and didn't know how to argue this.

This why I think here its better to keep the sources mentioning this but include his rejection of the label. That's why it's a compromise. It resolves the contentious issue because it brings both views into the light.

But Im just spinning on here. To avoid all of this would it be better to say something like this instead of including his rejection. I take inspiration direclty from "X is described by multiple sources as a white nationalist". in the article you linked to me here:

New Part Suggestion:

"RFK jr is described by multiple sources as an anti-vaccination propagandist, multiple other sources completely omit that description when summarizing his history" And then have sources for both?

PS: What do you think about the rest of my suggestion? Do you think that my introduction is better than the current one? Adding his humanitarian work as well as the fact that he has litigated against mainly large corporations? CompromisingSuggestion (talk) 21:22, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

My gosh, it is RFK Jr. Cullen328 (talk) 21:25, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

I've edited it all now! :)

I had been watching a JFK documentary earlier, Im not American and so I stumbled on the article on RFK and yeah my head is just all full of JFK at the moment, sorry! Please return to the topic haha! Agian I apologize. CompromisingSuggestion (talk) 21:31, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

@CompromisingSuggestion: Perhaps I’ve not been clear on my perspective, and/or have misunderstood yours. My main point is simply that the very first sentence should completely describe the subject as they are described in reliable sources. I think you agree (but I do not want to speak for you, please correct me if I’m wrong) that the subject has indeed shared health-related conspiracy theories, and is widely known for doing so. I feel it would be inappropriate to label the person an “anti-vaccine propagandist” at all (even as an accusation), and I will note that the article in its current form does not do that; the easy solution in my mind is to leave it at the fact that he has shared these conspiracy theories, which I don’t believe is disputed. I do apologize if I was not clear that WP:MANDY is absolutely not policy - I should have explained that much better than assuming you understood the difference between an essay and a policy as I did above. From what I can see now, you’d like to go into detail on the subject’s work as an activist and lawyer before mentioning the conspiracy-related information, which I only object to on the grounds that not immediately mentioning the conspiracy theories (which, for better or for worse, he is known for) reduces the weight placed on those incidents in a manner that does not afford them due weight. Immediately after the current first sentence, the article describes his life and career fairly thoroughly, then references the conspiracies again to explain the context more deeply. I would support the replacement of the word “propaganda” with a less POV term (though I don’t have any particular suggestions) in that first sentence, but otherwise as it stands now I do think the way the lead is structured generally is appropriate. I would greatly appreciate if you could clarify exactly why the lead sentence should not contain a reference to the fact that he has shared these theories, or if you did not intentionally remove that reference in your suggestion. Tollens (talk) 06:18, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

I have tweaked the heading slightly. Hope it helps. The Capitalist forever (talk) 07:35, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Topic Bans

How do topic bans work, and would necessary in this situation? So, to sum the current situation I have up, the user User:Jeziahnightz619 has been editing disruptively and with some hostility on Baphomet. Should a topic ban be used here, or would it make the situation worse considering their hostility? Sneezless (talk) (contribs) 22:49, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

To clarify before anyone answers, the user has stopped, but considering that they asked me to publish the changes instead of them, ignoring my mention of source policy and other context clues, that seems to be due to timezones. Sneezless (talk) (contribs) 22:55, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Because I also forgot to mention this, most of the evidence of this disruptive editing is on the users talk page, the history of Baphomet and Baphomet’s talk page. Sneezless (talk) (contribs) 22:57, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

The decision to enforce a topic ban often comes from community consensus or the arbitration committee. If you believe Jeziah is being disruptive, you can file a report at WP:ANI. Carpimaps ^{talk to me!} 01:54, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

@Sneezless: Normally I would recommend avoiding ANI like the plague, but looking at the quality of edits by Jeziahnightz619, who is also a single purpose editor, they don't look as though they're here to build an encyclopaedia. ANI is probably right. An Admin can deal with it as a normal admin matter. Elemimele (talk) 07:59, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Spoilers in lede

I saw an article Scrapped Princess about an anime with a very major spoiler in the lede. Is it allowed to remove such a spoiler so it’s only present in the plot summary? Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 03:47, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

I know Wikipedia is not censored and shouldn’t be used like a review site or anything. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 03:48, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Nah,

If you don't want spoilers, don't search for info.

Wikipedia:Spoiler

The user name has been blacklisted (talk) 03:52, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

@Immanuelle: going back to first principles, I would say that anyone is allowed to make any edit which they genuinely believe will improve an article. Sounds to me like your proposed edit would be covered by that. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 06:03, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

It may be allowed but we have to consider the diversity of readers. Some might want a spoiler. As a personal example, as a single parent I often find that I miss the end of a TV drama because of some kid-related issue. And without spoilers I'd never know who dunnit, or whether the hero got his girl at the end! The normal TV review sites never do spoilers, so I rely on Wikipedia to tell me the outcome! We're primarily here to provide full information, so avoiding spoilers doesn't really fit in with our function, and besides, when applied to TV, books, etc., it runs the risk of making WP look just like all the other fan/review sites. Elemimele (talk) 07:07, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Nobody is arguing that there cannot be spoilers. The question was can the spoiler be moved away from the lead section. Or is there some compelling reason why it must be in the lead section? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:37, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

@Immanuelle: As pointed out by DoubleGrazing. it's not really a question as to whether the article should be spoiler free, but rather whether a spoiler belongs in the lead. Most spoilers tend to be found in plot sections of articles and not may plot elements (except perhaps a brief summary) usually end up in the lead. What you could try is to check the article's edit history to see who added the spoiler and why. If it was added as the result of a consensus established through article talk page discussion, then boldly removing it wouldn't be wise. If it was just a random edit without any justification being given for it, then boldly removing it might be OK. You should though follow up with a more detailed explanation on the article's talk page to see what others think. If consensus favors the removal, it will stay removed; if not, it will be re-added. -- Marchjuly (talk) 08:18, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

It was added by @Squilibob back in March of 2006 who miraculously is still active https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Scrapped_Princess&direction=next&oldid=45392341 the spoiler is related to the genre description. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 08:30, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

I believe it depends on how relevant the spoiler is to the genre description: is the spoilery genre important in describing the series? after watching the whole series, is it in any way inaccurate to describe the series without that genre? take Doki Doki Literature Club!, it is hard to discuss the game in depth without going into the spoilery territory of its genre. is it also the case here? 💜  melecie  talk - 09:11, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

I apologise completely and abjectly! Yes, of course, unless the spoiler is critical, there's no reason not to put it where it logically belongs: at the end of some plot/storyline description. Elemimele (talk) 16:09, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

@Melecie I checked the lead, then I read the plot. Wow. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:43, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

What do I do in an edit war, how do I preclude even starting one? Also how can I get advice on an edit and work with someone who has experience in editing such and such articles?

I have an other question here also. You can read about what the issue is there. Anyway I suspect that the users engaging with me in an article Im hoping to edit will either continue to not be constructive and not look for a compromise or will simply stop replying. I'll then edit the article, they will revert it. This will lead to an edit war. I'm a new account and I dont want to get banned.

Do I need to have an edit war before I can take something to an arb commitee or can I take it there directly if I suspect there will be one? What is the best way forward if there is no constructive discussions happening, not just with me but between everyone? Two camps have formed, my compromise probably doesn't suit either side but diminishes one side as that one is winning as of now so they will probably go after my edits.

I'd like for someone to objectively judge the suggestion/edit once it's formulated.

My second question is simply, where can I get help to objectively improve my suggestion so it has a higher chance of passing the arb commitee?

Should I go to the project for politicians in the US (if there is such a one?) or should I go here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse/Suggestions or is there a better place? Basically id just like to chat with an experience Wikipedia editor, bounce suggestions back and forth and make my more balanced headline somehow work with all Wikipedia policies and stuff §being followed. Doing it somewhere far away from the people on both sides of the article Im trying to edit would probably be preferable. CompromisingSuggestion (talk) 22:14, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello, CompromisingSuggestion. The matter is already being discussed at the article's talk page where it is clear that consensus does not exist for the changes you are proposing. If you changed the article at this point, that would be editing against consensus which is disruptive. The way to avoid an edit war is to never engage in any edit warring behavior. There is no such concept as a suspected future edit war. As for taking the matter to the Arbitration Committee, that would be a big mistake. ArbCom is for severe and intractable behavioral issues, and should only be used when all other options have been exhausted, and your account is only one day old. And ArbCom does not decide content issues. Ordinary editors do. There are many other forms of dispute resolution available to you. As for a place to get input from experienced editors, that place is here at the Teahouse. For example, I have been an editor for 14 years and an administrator for five years. Many other Teahouse hosts have comparable experience. Cullen328 (talk) 22:36, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

"There is no such concept as a suspected future edit war" — there is, for an editor who is planning to start one. Maproom (talk) 09:57, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

There is no consensus, the article is in a constant state of strife, why are you misrepresenting the article? It has recently been protected because there was a constant edit war happening. Perhpas you do not know, but then do not talk about things that you do not know but ask just like im asking and begging for advice and constructive criticism but not getting anything that would move me forward, just that would preclude me from finding a compromise what so ever.

Here is the article before he started his race, when his anti-vaccine stuff was his main job.

It's far less of a hit piece, includes his history as an author in adition to lawyer. It is a whole paragraph and not just a sentence and a half. It lists him as an anti vaccine activist and not propagandist. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Robert_F._Kennedy_Jr.&oldid=1074965578

But even then it was highly contentious. The move from the day he announced his precidency has been in the direction of discrediting him, minimizing his accomplishments and amplifying his controversies both through language and through what is written and what is not.

I tried to get input from you earlier but you wrote a two sentence reply to me when I wrote you half a page. I'm happy to get help if this is where I can get help, though these questions seem to be quickies, I'd like to work with someone over some time.

I'll take a look at the other dispute resolution options. Thanks. CompromisingSuggestion (talk) 22:47, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Also, there is no somewhere far away from the people on both sides of the article Im trying to edit. Wikipedia is based on openess, transparency and collaboration. We do not discuss things in secret except in the most extreme cases, which I will not enumerate except to say that this is not one of them. Cullen328 (talk) 22:41, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Why do you think I want secrecy? I just want to discuss it with people who are not emotionally or worse politically invested in it so I can form the best possible lead that will hold in what eventually I suspect will be the arb committee as I build up conflict with the people who will not engage with me constructively but misrepresent what I say and bully me. I want objectivity not secrecy. Please stop putting words in my mouth. Overall, please stop answering my questions Id like someone else to answer them, thank you kindly. You're of course free to do as you please, Im just asking you humbly not to.CompromisingSuggestion (talk) 22:49, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

I found this which is exactly what I was looking for but it seems it has been discontinued in 2021, that sucks!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Editor_assistance/Requests

And I'm here looking for any kind of communal notice board to engage the wider community that are interested in political articles specificlaly but there seems to be nowhere you can write anything:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Politics/American_politics

I guess I'll follow Cullens advice and first try https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard and then if there's a point to it Arb Comittee.

If anyone sees this and has an open mind and would like to work with me on this articles lead please contact me, thank you! CompromisingSuggestion (talk) 23:42, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Editing advice

 I need help on how to edit, i've made some mistakes, so much so i've been blocked on my phone. So what is some advice to amateur editors? Like my self. Quincy43425 (talk) 14:54, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

You edited without creating an account? Ruslik_Zero 15:26, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

@Quincy43425, try WP:TUTORIAL and WP:COMMUNICATE. When you edited on your phone, did you use the current login?[5] Please avoid WP:SOCK. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:31, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Is it okay to wipe my user talk

I recently started contributing to Wikipedia in February. One of my edits got the attention of an admin who gave me some advice and pointers. I've pretty much fixed all the pages that I made mistakes on. Would it be okay to erase my user talk so it's blank like it used to be? AlphaRex1984 (talk) 14:05, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

@AlphaRex1984: Welcome to Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 1190. Yes, according to the talk page guidelines, you are allowed to blank out your user talk page, though there are a few exceptions that may not be removed. Alternatively, many users like to move past discussions into archives for future reference. There are a few bots that can help you do that as well. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 14:14, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Ok, thank you. None of the exceptions apply here. So I'm going to wipe my talk. Thanks, AlphaRex1984 (talk) 14:22, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

@AlphaRex1984 If you want, you can use Help:Archiving (plain and simple) from here on. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:30, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Alright. I'll keep that in mind when I want to archive important stuff on my talk page. Thank you. AlphaRex1984 (talk) 16:55, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

edits

I am unable to complete my edits because what I wrote is deemed "unconstructive?" Not understanding that and who makes that decision? This is concerning A Chat with Glendora...Glendora Folsom Achatwithglendora (talk) 15:33, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello @Achatwithglendora, and welcome to Wikpedia. The WP-article Glendora (television producer) is supposed to be a summary of independent reliable sources, WP:RS, on the subject. It is not your blog or social media. Therefore, from the Wikipedia-perspective, this edit [6] was not constructive and the Wikipedian who reverted it, @Roundish, correct in doing so. More information at Wikipedia:Conflict of interest and Wikipedia:An article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing. Hope this helps some. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:42, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Also see WP:TONE, one of the many reasons why your edit is problematic. You cannot introduce yourself in an article, this is an encyclopaedia. Take feedback in mind and do continue contributing in a constructive manner. (Roundish ⋆t) 15:53, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello Glendora, and welcome to the Teahouse. Please bear in mind that Wikipedia is not interested in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is only interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources. ColinFine (talk) 16:18, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

@Achatwithglendora: Wikipedia generally doesn't allow people to edit articles about themselves, because they would be biased, obviously. 〜 Festucalex • talk 17:16, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

@Achatwithglendora Your edit was very amusing but, because this is an encyclopaedia, I agree with the editors above who explained that it was not an acceptable addition to the article. However, may I make a suggestion to you? If you are indeed Glendora, why not take a selfie and upload it to Wikimedia Commons so that it can be used to illustrate the article about you? We aren't able to take images that are copyright from the internet and include them, but you can take your own photograph of yourself and post that.

Here's the link you might wish to use to do that: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:UploadWizard

Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 17:38, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Search

How do i do a search. Joeplays18 (talk) 18:55, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello, welcome to the Teahouse. For basic searches, please find the magnifying glass on your device and type what you want to search. Please specify what you are needing help with if this has not answered your question. Happy editing, Heart ^(talk) 19:03, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

How to

Just wondering, how would I add the User:YuviPanda/AssessmentBar script so I can use it. Lflin16 - Member of Recent Changes Patrol (talk) 03:18, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi Lflin16, welcome to the Teahouse. I see you already tried to install it in User:Lflin16/common.js before posting. I guess it isn't working for you. User:YuviPanda/AssessmentBar#User documentation links to Wikipedia:WikiProject India/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2012/Guide - Part 4 which says importScript('User:YuviPanda/AssessmentBar/install.js');. That isn't working for me, e.g. I see nothing on India in any of the skins Vector, Vector 2022, MonoBook. User:YuviPanda/AssessmentBar/install.js contains the code you tried. @YuviPanda: Is the script supposed to still work? It appears you haven't worked on it since 2012. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:06, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

I think it is, the most recent update to documentation looks like it was 2021. I don’t know if the developer is still active, but it’s probably worth asking them. Lflin16 - Member of Recent Changes Patrol (talk) 20:09, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Find edit count for a particular User

I used to know how to find total edits for a user. I want to do this for myself, but I believe the method to do this as the interface and pull downs have changed.

Can someone answer this relatively easy query for me? THANK YOU!!!```

`` Dcw2003 (talk) 15:05, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

https://xtools.wmcloud.org/ec/en.wikipedia.org/Dcw2003 is your edit count. Place any username behind the slash to query diffirent users. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 15:08, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi Dcw2003. The fastest way to get your own edit count without other data is Special:Preferences. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:10, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

BUT how do you get to Special Contributions????? ``` Still having trouble. Thanks!!!! Dcw2003 (talk) 20:13, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

There is also Special:CentralAuth/Dcw2003, reached via clicking on Global: accounts at the bottom of your personal contributions page (Special:Contributions/Dcw2003). 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:12, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

@Dcw2003: Just to inform you that these changes are because of a recent experiment to add a new theme to Wikipedia called "Zebra". I am also experiencing problems with it, and if you are too, you should report them to the Village Pump. --QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 16:48, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Ok I think I found it under contributions. Thanks!!!! I'm not familiar with the newer interface apparently. ``` Dcw2003 (talk) 20:17, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Can someone rename these categories

Can someone rename these categories listed here? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_May_14#Monica_and_Friends they have not been renamed. Notrealname1234 (talk) 20:51, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

"Related articles"

At the very bottom of each article in mobile mode there is a "Related articles" section which usually includes 3 articles. My question is is this computer generated or can human users change which articles appear? Not to be confused with See Also Onion1981 (talk) 01:32, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Onion1981 I believe you are looking for mw:Extension:RelatedArticles. The #Usage section says (partially truncated by me):

Once installed, related articles will be determined algorithmically based on Cirrus Search if available with no additional steps. Alternatively, you can disable this functionality ($wgRelatedArticlesUseCirrusSearch) and manually add related articles like so: {{#related:Test with read more}}.

I think (not sure) you aren't allowed to edit PHP, probably restricted to WP:INTERFACEADMINs. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 02:04, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Good day, Onion1981,

See Also is encoded by humans and the Related Articles are bot generated. I can tell because there is no code for the Related Articles in the article itself. I am not sure how they are picked though. ✶Mitch199811✶ 02:06, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

@Onion1981: $wgRelatedArticlesUseCirrusSearch at mw:Extension:RelatedArticles#Usage is a configuration setting for a whole wiki and cannot be edited at the wiki. In wikis where $wgRelatedArticlesUseCirrusSearch is true like Wikipedia, the mentioned {{#related:...}} makes an override of the automatic selection. The English Wikipedia doesn't mention this option in any guideline or help page as far as I know and it's only used in a few hundred articles, e.g. at Princes in the Tower#Further reading. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:44, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

how can i verify my profile as a musician?

how can i verify my profile as a musician? Ex-boy france (talk) 02:50, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello! Everything on Wikipedia should be cited to a reliable source. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia; your article is not a "profile" and does not require or benefit from personal verification. If there is information in your article that is not cited, or missing information that has a reliable source, you are discouraged from editing it directly - instead you should make an edit request on its talk page.

If you do not currently have an article about yourself, it is very unlikely that one will be created and kept unless you meet Wikipedia's guidelines for notability. WPscatter ^t/_c 02:54, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

@Ex-boy france: Exactly which criteria in WP:MUSICBIO do you believe you meet? ~Anachronist (talk) 06:03, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Mother Shipton's prophecies? 🤨

The first two parts of "Prophecies" section in Mother Shipton's article "interprets" a few of her ramblings in ways that seem to claim they "came true". That's super weird in an encyclopedia, but is that like even allowed? It's not my focus area but it sounds doubtful that "Mother Shipton could really tell the future" gets a lot of support in the literature. The sourcing isn't good either. Seems something urgent to fix too. There's also an old discussion but it never got replies. Should I put a template on it or can I put it on a list for review? JaikeV (talk) 10:16, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi @JaikeV, welcome to the Teahouse. Placing a template is essentially putting it on a list for review, though some lists are incredibly long at this point. In this case you could, perhaps, use {{tone}}, with a link to the talk page discussion included. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 14:12, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

What is that 41.116.42.100 (talk) 06:20, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Returning Wikipedia member

I was after on Wikipedia about 20 years ago until I was attacked by another member on Wikipedia. I withdrew, and have a new account, making very minor edits. It was never my idea to get involved in something bigger. However, (the laid plans of mice and men) I have found an article that is very inaccurate in that it has turned a former mail stop along the old Pennsylvania Railroad tracks in Ohio into an "unincorporated community," which it never was. (No streets, no buildings other than an exterior platform and at most a mail distribution point - before Rural Free Delivery started in 1905. This place had no school, no churches, no grange or hall of any sort. Its simply a grade crossing created by a railroad. Portraying this as "community" is causing problems on other sites that insist that place was more than it was and as an unincorporated community that there were members of said "unincorporated community," when there were none. I just want the correct information to stand and remove this fictitious portrayal of what was a mail stop and perhaps a small post office that only functioned from 1895-1905 as an "unincorporated community" The factual information is already assembled, what remains is what to do with the "box" used for places. I just want this to be accurate, without deepening involvement. Is it possible to make this happen? ClevelandExPat (talk) ClevelandExPat (talk) 22:00, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Just looking at the sources in the article - the USGS still lists this as a location: [7] I will note that unincorporated communities can be completely uninhabited, so having a school, church, etc. as you describe is not a prerequisite for its existence. Is there some reason that the article should refer to the location as 'defunct' when it remains labelled by the government of the US as a named location? Tollens (talk) 22:12, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Many years ago, a lot of places got into Wikipedia that now don't qualify. These locations turn up regularly at Articles for Deletion, AfD, where there is a fairly active group of editors who regularly debate whether a railway siding in Ohio is a genuine inhabited place. The most recent such debate is at Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Burdickville,_Rhode_Island. You could either contact someone who's active in US locations via their talk-page, asking if they'd be interested in having a look at your location (I included the link to Burdickville so you can find some of the regulars). Or you could nominate your location for deletion (see Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion) which means its status will get debated. But if you had a bad experience at Wikipedia before, do remember that there may be a fairly robust debate. You don't have to get more involved than you want to. Elemimele (talk) 10:08, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Tollens: Thank you for the reply. USGS has a point on a map. And evidently, McGraw Hill maps do as well. However, Lynn, the railroad siding, was never occupied. Even as a postal sub-office, it existed as "Benzler" or "Lynn" had no residents, no place for people to gather. As for the defunct, yes, as of 1905 when its reason for being was closed with the advent of RFD routes. So it should be labeled as defunct in that its purpose for being ended 118 years ago. And it should be labeled as such, because there is nothing there. As for why people continue to list it on maps, it's probably "We have always done it that way," and the decision is being made by people who have never been there. If you look it up on Google maps, you'll see that there is just a crossing, nothing else. ClevelandExPat (talk) ClevelandExPat (talk) 19:37, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

@ClevelandExPat: If you don't mind, I'll copy your text to an AfD later today when I get a chance, and it can get discussed. Elemimele (talk) 06:33, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Unaccepted draft r e Usurai Kitada (Japanese author)

Suggested page at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Usurai_Kitada was declined for not sufficient "reliable resources" but there are 4 sources cited including 3 scholarly books. What needs to happen? Subject is turn-of-century Japanese woman writer. Proyster (talk) 15:29, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

@Proyster, I checked one of your sources, Tanaka, and it looks excellent to me. If the others are similar, WP:N is no problem here. However, you gave no pagenumbers for your books, and you didn't use inline citations per WP:TUTORIAL. Cites go in-text, placed where they are relevant, and if done right they also appear in the ref-section. I changed one as an example:[8]. If you can, include a url since it's helpful for readers. Ping to @TheWikiholic if you wish to comment. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:16, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

OK. Thank you. Proyster (talk) 20:33, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

I note someone has added an article on this person last month. My thanks went out to them. Good to see this subject represented. Proyster (talk) 04:45, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

That I missed and agree. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:20, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

@Proyster Btw, do you know if she's on a picture somewhere? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:46, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

@Proyster: with my AfC reviewer's hat on... general references (ie. sources being listed without inline citations) make it very difficult to know which source supports what information, and this combined with the sources being offline makes it pretty much impossible to verify them. And if a reviewer cannot verify the information, they cannot really establish notability, either, leaving little choice other than to decline. That's my experience, at any rate, FWIW. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 17:12, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

This is always such a frustrating situation, and one of my bee-in-bonnet items. The instructions to AfC reviewers at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Reviewing_instructions state clearly "Avoid declining an article because it correctly uses general references to support some or all of the material. The content and sourcing policies require inline citations for only four specific types of material, most commonly direct quotations and contentious material (whether negative, positive, or neutral) about living persons" and yet this is not what happens. Because as DoubleGrazing points out, the AfC reviewer very reasonably wishes to check sources. Personally I'd like to see this wretchedly out-of-date piece of advice removed from the AfC reviewers' instructions since no one is following it. But I'm slightly afraid that the next step will be the rejection of books that aren't available online... Elemimele (talk) 21:02, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Questions about images on Commons.

Hi, I'm not necessarily a new editor, I just have mostly only reverted vandalism and done some minor things.
I came across a page[1] that had an image that confused me, so I investigated some more - long story short the image was one of 3 crops made by a user from other images uploaded to Commons, it wasn't linked anywhere and the source was {{own}}, so I replaced those with [[:File:_]] links to the original images. (my contribs on Commons)

My questions then:
- Is there a Contributing to Commons page? I could not find one - well I did find one for uploading your own image, but it did not appear to include contributing to already uploaded images (other than requesting deletion).
- Were my changes done correctly?

– 2804:F14:80B6:3101:A4AA:E9B1:B24A:E3A9 (talk) 03:03, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

I am not aware of a central page discussing contributing to existing images, but I do know that I nominated both the crop and and the original file for speedy deletion, as they were previoudly published elsewhere without a free license. I am not a commons main, so I cannot give you a detailed answer, but IMO your attempt at repairing atttibution (from a general sence) wasn't bad. Yust remember to amend the |author= field of {{Information}} to reflect the copyright of the original image. Victor Schmidt (talk) 07:56, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Ah, perhaps I should have tried reverse searching the "original" upload, only tried it with the cropped version (and didn't find the original).
But thanks for the that and the information (the {{Extracted from|File:_}} template too, although I'll probably not happen upon something like this again)
– 2804:F14:80B6:3101:A4AA:E9B1:B24A:E3A9 (talk) 09:35, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Please, fix this

In Nicolas Cage filmography there is a movie called "Teen Titans Go! To the Movies" that appears as it doesn't exist, when it does exist ,can someone fix that? 201.188.149.37 (talk) 11:21, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

I didn't/don't understand what you're saying, but I made a minor edit anyway. Are you happy with the result? -- Hoary (talk) 11:41, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi and welcome to the Teahouse, IP editor. You have earlier been reverted for persistent edits on that and other articles. There is a much broader discussion about your conduct at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Disruptive editing by Chile-based dynamic IPs, as advised on your talk page. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 11:43, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Yes, thanks! 201.188.149.37 (talk) 11:46, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

How to add my userbox to the userbox directory?

Greetings everyone. I would like to add the userbox I created to the list of userboxes available for use. Can someone please tell me how to do this?

here is the userbox: User:McFilet O'Fishman Deluxe/filetofishdeluxe McFilet O'Fishman Deluxe (talk) 04:48, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

You can add the userbox at Wikipedia:Userboxes/Sandwiches - just add a new entry at the bottom like the others. (As a side note, that text is really big, compared to other userboxes - you might want to make it a little smaller, but obviously it's completely up to you.) Tollens (talk) 04:56, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

To find other categories of userboxes, look at Wikipedia:Userboxes/Galleries RossDG8 (talk) 13:50, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Visual Contribution Tool?

Is there a tool that would highlight what contributions/text on a Wikipedia page is mine in a different color? Like if I added 5 paragraphs to a Wikipedia page all in separate contributions, it would show the paragraphs in yellow or something? AlphaRex1984 (talk) 12:13, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

@AlphaRex1984 Welcome to the Teahouse. I don't believe such a tool exists, nor could it, as any paragraph you add would be liable to further edits by other users. I can't see how any tool could differentiate who added what to a page. Obviously, you can see you own contributions easily enough (see here), and you can see what articles you have added the most here. Hope that helps, Nick Moyes (talk) 12:33, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Alright, thank you. AlphaRex1984 (talk) 12:51, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

@AlphaRex1984: See mw:Who Wrote That? for something like that. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:40, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Pretty close to what I wanted. tyvm AlphaRex1984 (talk) 13:51, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Wow - I wasn't aware of that. Thanks, @PrimeHunter for linking to that. Nick Moyes (talk) 14:01, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Recover article that was in sandbox? edit stage and was not ever added to live site

I am trying to recover the article I stared pre-covid about my festival - Lookout wild film festival. I had created the article but got lost on the getting it approved step. Since I did not know if we would survive covid I let it slip. We have survived and would like to recover the draft edit of the page so I can complete and publish. Thanks Sidetrips (talk) 23:55, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

It was at Draft:Lookout Wild Film Festival and I'm updating your WP:REFUND request to get it back. - UtherSRG (talk) 00:00, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Sidetrips, and welcome to the Teahouse.

In trying to create an article about "my festival", you have a conflict of interest, and you should read that link. You are not forbidden from creating an article about your own activities, but it is discouraged, because it is likely to be hard for you to write in a neutral tone. In any case, you should declare your COI, probably on you User page. (You have not yet created one, which is fine; but that would be the best place for your declaration.)

You should also note that promotion of any kind is not permitted on Wikipedia, and in fact, Wikipedia is not interested in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is only interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources. ColinFine (talk) 17:01, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Writing about a video game

So I have this video game that doesn't have a Wikipedia page, and I need some tips. Here are my questions:

1. Notability: At exactly what point should a video game get an article (and are there a specific number of sources)?
2. Clarification question: If I'm not mistaken, self-published sources (like the developer's website) can be used to verify basic facts (like publication dates).
3. Writing: Should plot sections be described in my own words (is it really fine to not cite any sources?)
4. Am I allowed to pull data from Wikidata and put in my article?
5. I have a physical copy of the game. Am I allowed to upload the cover art to Wikimedia Commons?

TMTarantula (speak with me) (my legacy) 18:03, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

@TrademarkedTarantula, welcome to the Teahouse!

1: There is no fixed number and no exact point. Usually, 3 WP:GNG-good ones will do it, but "good" is a bit subjective. Try to find sources so you don't appear as an edge-case.

2:Yep, assuming you mean WP:ABOUTSELF ones. They don't help with WP:N, but that doesn't make them entirely useless.

3:Yep, no WP:COPYPASTE, and see MOS:PLOTSOURCE. If you actually have sources for the plot, there's nothing wrong with using them.

4:Check Wikidata at WP:RSP.

5:No, Commons doesn't accept non-free stuff. But you can upload a cover for WP:LEADIMAGE use on en-WP, pick "Upload a non-free file" at WP:FUW. However, you may only do this after the suggested article is in article-space, not while it's a draft. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:34, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

What counts as a contentious claim, and do you need reliable sources to remove a sourced contentious claim?

I won’t go into the details of what is starting to be a dispute here, but what was removed in this diff count as contentious, and do you need reliable sources against it to remove it? Sneezless (talk) (contribs) 21:05, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

If I have seen this correctly, there seems to be disagreement as to what a source says. This needs to be discussed on the talk page. 331dot (talk) 21:15, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

I have temporarily protected the article. Please discuss this on the article talk page. 331dot (talk) 21:20, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Cromwell Dixon

In the article is states Cromwell started to sell stock, I have an actual stock certificate that I feel a picture could be added to the article. How does one go about adding a picture or link. Doddles45 (talk) 21:30, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Doddles, and welcome to the Teahouse. Thank you for wanting to help improve Wikipedia.

Presuming that the certificate is old enough that it is in the public domain, so there is no copyright issue, you can use the upload wizard to "upload a freely licensed file" to Commons. ColinFine (talk) 22:01, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Commonnames

How to check commonname? — Akshadev™ 🔱 03:43, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

"Common name" can mean lots of things.

Common name The user name has been blacklisted (talk) 03:49, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

If I wanna move an article, (for example Indian Premier League to IPL) then I have to follow the WP:COMMONNAME criteria. So how do I find out which name is more common in Indian Premier League and IPL? — Akshadev™ 🔱 04:03, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Google is a good start.

I see "Indian Premier League" has 134,000,000 hits, and "IPL" has 418,000,000.

Therefore, you have a good case. The user name has been blacklisted (talk) 04:08, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

One issue with this method is that a search for "IPL" also returns many results for webpages unrelated to the Indian Premier League. Thus it's hard to say that "IPL" is the more common name for this entity.  — RTao (talk • contribs) 04:20, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

@Akshadev: Per Wikipedia:Article titles § Avoid ambiguous abbreviations, I believe the full name would be appropriate in this case.  — RTao (talk • contribs) 04:17, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

@Akshadev: While IPL redirects to Indian Premier League, IPL (disambiguation) shows that the same abbreviation can represent several other things. GoingBatty (talk) 05:02, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Dear editors (@The user name has been blacklisted, @RTao and @GoingBatty), I mentioned IPL just for an example, my main question is that how do you search for common names on Google? It has to be 100% authentic to move an article.

Ps: I forgot to log in so I cleared my previous reply, sorry for that! :( — Akshadev™ 🔱 06:04, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

ps: @The user name has been blacklisted, I have no intention nor interest to move Indian Premier League to IPL. I completely agree with @RTao on this point. I mentioned it just for an example. — Akshadev™ 🔱 06:14, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

@Akshadev: You can search for common names on Google the same way you search for anything else on Google: Go to google.com, type in your search criteria (e.g. IPL) and click the "Google Search" button. If you want to limit your search results to Wikipedia articles, you can type "IPL site:en.wikipeia.org" instead. Hope this is what you were looking for. GoingBatty (talk) 16:02, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

@GoingBatty: Well to be really honest, it was definitely not what I was looking for, I failed to explain. anyway thanks for your sincere suggestions about how to make a Google search! — Akshadev™ 🔱 00:24, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Removal of citations by 2 IPs on Nicolas Dauphas

Hi all, I noticed that some IPs have removed some content and citations from the Nicolas Dauphas article. It looks a bit suspicious, but I'm unsure and want someone else to look at the diff and revert if necessary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nicolas_Dauphas&diff=1158386275&oldid=1140746076

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nicolas_Dauphas&action=history

-- CoderThomasB (talk) 02:53, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello, and welcome to the Teahouse. I've reverted the edits as unexplained content removal, and warned both of the IPs. One of them tracks to the University of Chicago so clearly someone doesn't like this professor. JML1148 (talk | contribs) 10:57, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

It appears that the same IP has reverted your revert here, this time with a comment: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nicolas_Dauphas&diff=prev&oldid=1158534056

As a relatively new Wikipedia editor, I don't have any suggestions on what to do, but I know that another revert probably wouldn't be constructive. Would bringing it up on the article talk or user talk pages be a good idea? -- CoderThomasB (talk) 00:32, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Do we have an official policy on whether to list Crimea as part of Ukraine or Russia?

This is about this edit: [9]

Karjakin was born in Crimea, which at the time was part of the Soviet Union, but whose status is currently disputed. Most countries recognize Crimea as part of Ukraine, but Karjakin would undoubtedly prefer identifying Crimea with Russia (see the article). Do we have an official policy on whether to list Crimea as part of Ukraine or Russia? Banedon (talk) 01:08, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

In this instance, my inclination would be to sidestep the ongoing problem (cf. the Northern Ireland "troubles") and avoid mentioning what it's part of now. Since it's a specific reference to the subject's place of birth in 1990, what it was part of then is (a) what matters and (b) not in dispute.

Maybe in ten years' time the question will have been settled and we can apply the winners' perspective retrospectively. There is no deadline. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.221.195.5 (talk) 01:40, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello Banedon. To answer your question, there isn't a policy on this specific issue. Nobody's opinion actually matters when deciding between X and Y including the article's subject itself, as we only summarize content that is referenced, but we do have consensus. For now it seems like the most logical move is to label it as a part of Eastern Europe - Apmh 02:01, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Can I do a second AfD right after a first one has been closed?

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Asian Jake Paul. — VORTEX³⁴²⁷ (Talk!) 01:10, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

@Vortex3427: No. Since the close is "Keep" you need to wait at least 6 months. See Wikipedia:Renominating_for_deletion RudolfRed (talk) 01:12, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi Vortex3427. Doing such a thing is generally not considered to be a good idea and is something that can easily be mistaken for disruption as being unwilling to accept a decision made by community consensus. Having posted that, however, if you feel that there was something wrong or improper with the way an AfD was closed, you can ask for further clarification or express any concerns you have by following the guidance in WP:CLOSECHALLENGE. An AfD close can be reviewed in some cases, but there needs to be a pretty strong policy based reason for doing so; you can't really just say you don't like the close. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:33, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

I just don't think I argued my case strong enough (that the sources are either unreliable or aren't WP:SIGCOV). — VORTEX³⁴²⁷ (Talk!) 03:20, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

GSM Arena?

Can i cite GSMarena (a database on mobiles. I myself use this to research mobiles) on articles relating to mobile phones? Thanks. Draco Centauros (talk) 00:05, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

@Draco Centauros: Probably not. Their FAQ states "We gather our information mainly from the web sites of manufacturers. Some of them provide very detailed information, others not so much. In the latter case, we sometimes have to resort to other sources which are not as reliable."

Therefore, I think it would be better to cite manufacturers directly. ~Anachronist (talk) 01:45, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Okay. Thank you!!!!@Anachronist Draco Centauros (talk) 03:26, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

dead link citation confusion

It is my interpretation that a dead link would never be the basis to delete content for lack of a source, because the validity of a citation is not generally dependent on the availability of a link, working or non-working. (Even in the case of a web-only source, there are many tricks that the average Wikipedia editor is unlikely to be aware of for locating a working archive copy.)

Notably, WP:Citing_sources#Preventing_and_repairing_dead_links states

If you encounter a dead URL being used as a reliable source to support article content, follow these steps prior to deleting it...

which leaves itself open to interpretation, as to what might be deleted as a result of the non-working link.

I propose reverting the 5 October 2020 of WP:Citing_sources but would like some feedback before doing so. Fabrickator (talk) 05:07, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

@Fabrickator: The place to discuss this is Wikipedia_talk:Citing_sources. There are close to 2,000 page watchers, so even if the talk page looks quiet, editors will be notified of your post. RudolfRed (talk) 05:34, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Complaining about an editor

"These kind of nominations are very tedious for all concerned", " that's no skin off my nose, but perhaps that's why you've pettily felt the need to spam my talkpage?"--These type of statements are clearly undermining the dignity of the cricketer concerned, as we as, the one who nominated. Asking a veteran editor to look into this matter. জয় হিন্দ জয় বাংলা (talk) 09:29, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

জয় হিন্দ জয় বাংলা This is not the place to raise grievances about user behavior. That is WP:ANI- but if you do that you are the one likely to be blocked, as the comments you have made are deeply disturbing for this collaborative project. 331dot (talk) 09:31, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Let a warning or just a small note be issued in that particular editor's talk page User talk:AssociateAffiliate. জয় হিন্দ জয় বাংলা (talk) 09:33, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

The only one being warned here is you. Religious bigotry is not tolerated here. 331dot (talk) 09:49, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

On notability

What would you say about a hypothetical article proposed to be created, entitled, Impacts of horseback riding therapy on children with cerebral palsy if there already exist non-wp:original research?

• https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/J006v27n02_02
• https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/01942638.2011.619251
• https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1017/S0012162207000175.x
• https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/developmental-medicine-and-child-neurology/article/horseback-riding-in-children-with-cerebral-palsy-effect-on-gross-motor-function/ADDCABD2AF1BA39CE6A7E5BCF53FAD29 .

Let us assume that these are wp:rs.

I am already aware of :

One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelines; notable list topics are appropriate for a stand-alone list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability#Stand-alone_lists

Lists that are too specific are also a problem. The "list of one-eyed horse thieves from Montana" will be of little interest to anyone other than the creator of the list. Wikipedia:SALAT

Notability is based on the existence of suitable sources, not on the state of sourcing in an article — 

Notability is based on the existence of suitable sources, not on the state of sourcing in an article — wp:NEXIST

list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelineWikipedia:Notability#Stand-alone lists

My question is, what is the black-and-white discriminating factor between notable and non-notable ...topics?
Thanks! 121.7.22.248 (talk) 08:02, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

It's not black-and-white, it can be a matter of judgment. Anyway, please see WP:MEDRS.   Maproom (talk) 08:53, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

It all depends on the depth of coverage of the topic in independent, reliable sources. Any claims of medical efficacy must be supported by references that comply with WP:MEDREF. Cullen328 (talk) 09:13, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

See Management of cerebral palsy for referenced mention of horse riding as an alternative therapy. Valid content and references, i.e., WP:MEDRS compliant, can be added there. Also see Equine-assisted therapy for mention of CP. David notMD (talk) 10:01, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

how to create program

Boldhow to create the [rogram 106.198.40.117 (talk) 13:02, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

sorry, this is the wikipedia teahouse, where we answer questions related to wikipedia editing. you will have to ask this elsewhere. lettherebedarklight晚安 13:13, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello, what do you mean by program? If you mean project, see Wikipedia:WikiProject. If you mean an article, see Help:Your first article. Apmh 14:02, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Maybe you should read our article on Computer programming. Shantavira|^{feed me} 14:20, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Review status

Why is my article taking so long to be reviewed - its over 4 months since completed and i can see a reviewer has commented 'seems to pass'. This has been the status for over 4 months - please could you advise - is anything else required by me to complete the process? Draft:Christopher Aidan Gilligan Floralsignal (talk) 09:39, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Floralsignal Hello. There is nothing that you can do other than continue to be patient, as noted on your draft, "This may take 4 months or more, since drafts are reviewed in no specific order. There are 4,638 pending submissions waiting for review." There is only a very limited number of volunteer reviewers.

I converted your link to a standard internal llink, we don't need the whole url. 331dot (talk) 09:45, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Floralsignal It shouldn't be too long now.

I "created" my first article by accident. It already existed, but something was wrong with it, which if I remember correctly, was that it was going to be deleted. So I added roughly a million links, and small bits of list type information.

Roughly 4 months later, when I had forgotten about it, I got a notification to say my article had been accepted. Danstarr69 (talk) 09:52, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Floralsignal, you've been told above "There is nothing that you can do other than continue to be patient". But that's not quite true. The main concern of any reviewer will be "do the sources cited in the draft establish that the subject is notable?" When a reviewer checks the first four sources and finds that none if them is an independent source, they may well decide that they have better uses for them time than checking the rest, and throw it back in the waiting list. If you would like to expedite the review process, you could remove most or all of the references which do nothing to help establish notability, so that a reviewer can more easily find the good ones (assuming there are any). Maproom (talk) 14:34, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

How to publish an article: did I do it correctly

I am not sure if this is the right place to ask this question. If not, I apologize, and kindly request to let me know where I should go instead. But if this is the right place: I would like to have some help with publishing an article that I wrote. After writing and publishing several pages in the Dutch Wikipedia (as an example: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/AISHE), I have made my first article for the English Wikipedia. The draft is: User:KlaasVanGiersbergen/Football Gini.

Now, publishing in the Dutch Wiki differs considerably from doing the same in the English Wiki, that has become clear to me. So, I have to learn something new.

For the English publication process, it seems to me that my next step should be, to add the AfC submission right at the beginning, after which a reviewer will inspect my article and, if it is found to be all right (perhaps after some feedback & edits), it will be published as an article. (Hopefully in the correct way & place - is there someone who can check that, please?)

Is this indeed the right way to have an article published? If so, then I should just wait until a reviewer visits the draft, I guess. But if not: can anybody tell me what I should do instead? Thanks! KlaasVanGiersbergen (talk) 10:06, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

KlaasVanGiersbergen I fixed the submit at the top of your draft, so it is now a submitted draft. I also moved it to Draft:Football Gini. It needs a Lead. David notMD (talk) 10:20, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

KlaasVanGiersbergen, your draft has no lead section. It starts with a section titled "Origins", but it doesn't say what it's about the origins of. I've read that section, and still have no idea what your draft is about. Maproom (talk) 14:39, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Images

Hi, I am trying to create a wiki page on a featured english artist. It won't let me upload images of his work- how do I go about this?

Thanks George Sweet (talk) 15:55, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse. You will need to write the article and get it approved before even attempting to add images. Please read WP:YFA and WP:NARTIST before you do that. Shantavira|^{feed me} 16:00, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi @George Sweet, I see you are working on Draft:George Sweet. While you can certainly add images to an article while still in draft, all his work is likely to be covered by copyright. See Wikipedia:Image use policy. Also as recommended see WP:NARTIST for how to show that Sweet is well-enough known for an encyclopedia article. Your article has no references, so definitely read WP:YFA also known as Help:Your first article. Everything in the article must be supported by a source. StarryGrandma (talk) 17:43, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Can someone help me with my new draft, Draft:Dylan McCaffrey?

I needed help with my new draft. Can anyone help me expand it? 40.142.188.18 (talk) 11:41, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Teahouse hosts are here to advise, not be co-authors. The burden is on you to add information and appropriate references before submitting the draft to review. David notMD (talk) 12:17, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

You should be aware that college football players rarely qualify as Wikipedia notable. If McCaffrey has not won a national award or set a NCAA Division I record or gained national media attention as an individual, very unlikely a draft about him would be accepted regardless of how much you put into it. More realistic to wait until he has a pro career. David notMD (talk) 12:25, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

A great way to let others improve your article is by adding appropriate wikiprojects to the article talk page, and reaching out to editors in those WikiProjects for assistance. For information on wikiprojects, check out Wikipedia:WikiProject and for a specific wikiproject, possibly try Wikipedia:WikiProject American football. Hope this helps! RossDG8-Talk 21:17, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Annoying popup: "Your Userpage"

Every time I open a WP page now (even when logged in on my own user page) I get a popup titled "Your Userpage" It says: Your userpage is a place to tell other editors about yourself. You can share about your background and interests and what you'd like to contribute to the project--share as much or as little as you like..." Clicking on the options points you towards starting the WP Adventure! There seems to be no way to end this behavior. This can't be happening to just me, can it? BTW, just upgraded to a new PC with Windows 11. I wonder if that's it! Rp2006 (talk) 20:56, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi Rp2006. It sounds like a Wikipedia Adventure script got stuck. Try "Start the adventure" at Wikipedia:The Wikipedia Adventure adn then "I'd like to leave". PrimeHunter (talk) 21:52, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. Sounded plausable.... so I just tried that, but unfortunately there was no change in the behavior! Rp2006 (talk) 21:16, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Also, I logged out and back in. Same thing. It thinks I am a new user! Rp2006 (talk) 21:37, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

bit discombobulated

hi i want to join a particular group (portal:countries) but i am not sure if there is a join form or anyting. IGotHacked12 (talk) 20:48, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello, IGotHacked. I don't think there is a concept of "joining" a portal - a portal is just a page which contains lists of relevant articles and categories: any editor can edit it. (See WP:PORTAL). Perhaps you're thinking of WikiProject Countries? ColinFine (talk) 21:44, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Japanese Internment Camp under incorrect namespace

I was looking through Special:uncategorizedpages, and found something wrong after discovering a page called Japanese internment camp. It seems to function as a disambiguation page, but is filed under the main-space namespace. Is there some archaic exception to which pages can be disambiguation pages? Please let me know what I should do. SmileyTrek (talk) 19:42, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

@SmileyTrek: Yes disambiguation pages are quite common. You can read about them at Wikipedia:Disambiguation RudolfRed (talk) 20:01, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation pages are typically in the mainspace. It's strange that this one was marked as uncategorized but I've removed that tag and added the Template:disambiguation template which is usually sufficient. WPscatter ^t/_c 20:05, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Oh I see, thank you. I thought it had to have (Disambiguation) under the title, and if it didn't have the namespace prefix it was mainspace, thank you SmileyTrek (talk) 20:11, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

You can read more at the policy page linked above and specifically at WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, but basically, pages only have disambiguators in the title if necessary, regardless of what kind of page it is. None of the pages linked at Japanese internment camp were deemed to be the primary topic, so users are brought to the disambiguation page by default when they search that title.

In contrast, though there are many things named starfish, the primary topic is the marine animal. So Starfish is the article for the animal, while Starfish (disambiguation) exists to list the other things.

Also, all of this is separate from namespaces, which separate things like articles, talk pages, help pages, etc. Disambiguation pages are main space articles just like all the others, as are redirects. WPscatter ^t/_c 20:44, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, I understand now. SmileyTrek (talk) 22:37, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

British Engineerium

hello there, i'd like to change the title name of the wikipedia page 'british engineerium' to 'the british engineerium'. i can't seem to figure out how to do that? not sure if anyone can help/advise? many thanks, graeme https://thebritishengineerium.org/ Gboyd987 (talk) 14:30, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

That would not be appropriate. Please see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (definite or indefinite article at beginning of name). (Also Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Capital letters). Shantavira|^{feed me} 14:38, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Gboyd987, you may move the article to a new title yourself once you have been here 4 days and made at least 10 edits. See Help:How to move a page. @Shantavira, "The British Engineerium" (with capital letters) is a perfectly appropriate name. See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (definite or indefinite article at beginning of name)#Names of groups, sports teams and companies. StarryGrandma (talk) 17:30, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

@Gboyd987: I think Shantavira has the correct advice here. Note that British Engineerium has been classified as a good article since 2011, and no one has yet, apparently, felt that the title needed to be changed. If you feel strongly about the matter, follow the procedure described at WP:RM to request that the article be moved and see whether a consensus for the move develops. Deor (talk) 23:02, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Article Approval: Notability/Tone

 Courtesy link: Draft:Jeff Hamilton

Hi! I'm a pop-culture and fashion fanatic, and I've recently decided to contribute here. I'm very new. I've read the guidelines regarding article origination, and I've attempted to follow them in my efforts to contribute. My most recent submission, however, was rejected on two counts: 1. The article reads like an ad (this may be true, I'm going to review); and 2. The article doesn't prove the subject's notability *because* my sources only make passing mentions of the subject.

I have reviewed the guidelines on notability. My sources are major publications including LA Times, Wall Street Journal, and USA Today. To those who know him, the subject's notability is evident through the contributions his designs have made to iconography from popular culture (especially pop music and hip hop) as well as sports (most notably through his affiliation with the NBA). The user who rejected my submission noted that the sources provided only passing mentions of the subject, but the subject's history is nevertheless evinced in these articles. Collectively, they show that the subjects work was so sought after that Michael Jackson, Madonna, Drake, Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, Bill Clinton, Nelson Mandela have all commissioned pieces from him and subsequently been photographed at seminal historical moments while wearing them. This person is known and beloved and deserves to be included.

Mind you, that last paragraph is both impassioned and impartial. It's a little irritating to work on something as a passion project just to encounter a wall from someone whose (accepted and published) submissions have included obscure nobility from feudal England. My article was not impartial. It's a dispensation of the facts that people to whom this subject's name evokes meaning and nostalgia already acknowledge as true, and the sources I provided verify everything in the article.

Anyone and everyone who knows/loves street culture, sports history, hip hop knows who this man is. In these subcultures, his name is so synonymous with status and success that he is name dropped on records by rappers like Jay-Z. His designs are indelible to the way basketball fans remember the history of their sport. I'm going to go back and work on this submission, but I can't help but feel like the user who rejected this article did so on the relevance of certain subcultures rather than that of my subject. Rickywrites (talk) 21:08, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Rickywrites. I'm afraid you've been misled by the possibly unfortunate choice of the word "notable" to mean something a bit different from the usual definition. Wikipedia's use of notable basically means "there is enough material about the subject available in independent reliable publications to provide the basis of an article". A thousands mentions, however prestigious their authors and publications, aren't enough. Anything written or published by the subject or their associates isn't relevant - and that includes anything based on a press release, and most interviews.

The answer to your It's a little irritating to work on something as a passion project just to encounter a wall is to not write articles BACKWARD. If you begin by looking for suitable sources, and cannot find them, then you will know not to put any further effort into this subject. (You went on to make a comment about the reviewer: beyond an ability to understand and apply Wikipedia's policies, what a reviewer knows or has or hasn't done is completely irrelevant to their reviewing). ColinFine (talk) 21:53, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your response. I did write this backward. I wrote my first article in the same way. If I were writing an essay, I would start by reading. I only included information that I found already published by other sources. Rickywrites (talk) 21:57, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Rickywrites, which would you say are the best three sources for Jeff Hamilton? (They should be reliable -- and thus not be based on interviews -- and go into some depth.) -- Hoary (talk) 21:58, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Wall Street Journal, LA Times, and USA Today. I cited these articles because they confirm assertions I make about the subject, ie celebrities who have commissioned pieces and the presence of these designs in sports and hip hop iconography. This person exists at the intersection fashion and pop/sports culture, not a lot of depth to plumb there. Still, this person has been known and admired for over three decades. Rickywrites (talk) 22:15, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

WSJ article. It's behind The Great Wall of Murdoch, so I can't read it. Somebody else will have to. LA Times article. Plenty of info about the lawsuit (though nothing about its result). Where's the USA Today story? -- Hoary (talk) 23:15, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Tone and tautness. You write:

Following his emigration to California, Hamilton spent a few months prospecting for work before eventually finding a job with a fashion wholesale company. While working in LA’s garment district, Hamilton would frequently ride the elevator with Georges Marciano, the founder of Guess? Jeans. Over time, Hamilton and Marciano became friends. Hamilton eventually approached Marciano and asked if he could have the licensing rights to the Guess name so that he could create and market a line of men’s clothing. At the time, Guess only produced clothing for women, so Marciano agreed.

I might write:

A few months after arriving in California, Hamilton found a job with a fashion wholesale company. While working in LA's garment district, he met Georges Marciano, the founder of Guess? Jeans. Hamilton asked Marciano for the rights to the Guess name for a line of men’s clothing. Guess then only produced clothing for women, so Marciano agreed.

But that's only a hurried first draft. I could probably improve it. -- Hoary (talk) 22:13, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. Much appreciated. I’ll work this tone into my rewrite. Rickywrites (talk) 22:16, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

What is the difference between redirect templates that use the "rcat shell" template and those that don't, aside from the visual aspects?

What is the difference between redirect templates that use the "rcat shell" template and those that don't, aside from the fact that they look different? LOOKSQUARE (👤️·🗨️) talk 23:00, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

hi LOOKSQUARE and welcome to the Teahouse! {{rcat shell}} does not really do anything to a page apart from adding a description why a page is a redirect (is it a redirect from a misspelling? an alternative name? an ambiguous term? and so on), which can be helpful for people who go back to the redirect page asking about that. happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 23:43, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Reviewing

Hi everyone! I would like to know that to review other peoples Afc article draft submissions, do you have to be a higher rank than an extended confirmed user? If so, how can I become a reviewer? If not, then what is the link or area where I can review Afc submissions. (I'm very interested in this kind of work and I know when an article needs be accepted or declined.) Thank you guys very much! The Capitalist forever (talk) 23:43, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

@The Capitalist forever: Welcome to the Teahouse! See Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Participants. GoingBatty (talk) 23:46, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

@GoingBatty:, thank you very much! The Capitalist forever (talk) 00:00, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Exit List for Interstate 69E

Can someone help me with the exit list for Interstate 69E. I-69E is in Texas. Anyways, I added to the exit list but looks mess up. Tried different things but couldn't figure it out. I submitted it while it looked messed up. Please and thank you. Cwater1 (talk) 02:13, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

@Cwater1: Welcome to the Teahouse! I reverted your edit. I suggest you post at Talk:Interstate 69E to specify exactly what changes you want made to the article, so other editors can assist you make the appropriate changes. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 02:29, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

I would like to thank you. I got a topic on the talk page started. :) Cwater1 (talk) 02:51, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

How do I report a sockpuppet?

I noticed User:Youhavetodobetter seems to have responded when I asked User:Nothappycamping a question, like they forgot to change accounts or something here Talk:X-gender. Both are editing the exact same pages, seemingly trying to push an agenda against nonbinary people Special:Contributions/Youhavetodobetter Special:Contributions/Nothappycamping and Nothappycamping has received numerous warnings on their talk page User talk:Nothappycamping. How do I report them for sockpuppeting so administrators can check? Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 06:49, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm gonna assume good faith here and assume there's a story about a forgotten password here. But what do I know, I'm not a CU. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 06:54, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

@LilianaUwU what's a CU? Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 06:57, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

A checkuser. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 06:58, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

@Immanuelle: You can file a report at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations. Instructions are on that page. RudolfRed (talk) 07:05, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

@RudolfRed I just did and apparently I'm not the first to file, a report Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Nothappycamping Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 07:08, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

@Immanuelle Huh, seems like my theory of forgotten passwords wasn't too far off. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 07:28, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

twitter

i just wanted to ask that i login the twitter account but their was a grey colur @and then my name was written . i want to hide it. i don't want that my name to be displayed on twitter . so i try to edit it also . but i don't know how to do it . so can anybody help me in hiding my name and make me Anonymous .

as i feel safe if am hidden . 21f2001128 (talk) 08:21, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi, 21f2001128 and welcome to the Teahouse. The Teahouse is for answering questions about Wikipedia. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 08:34, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Here's how to change your @username and/or display name at Twitter: See this article. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 08:36, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Location of Draft Space

Hi. I can't find my draft space (or is it "draftspace")? Can someone please post the path to it? Thanks so much. Lord Milner (talk) 21:50, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Lord Milner, it's User:Lord Milner/sandbox, User:Lord Milner/another sandbox, User:Lord Milner/yet another sandbox or for that matter User:Lord Milner/anything you like coming after your user page and a slash. -- Hoary (talk) 22:00, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Lord Milner. You haven't got a "draft space": the "Draft" namespace is common to everybody, and you can search for a particular draft by searching for the name including the Draft: on the front; or more generally in the draft space by using "Advanced search" and specifying the "Draft" namespace.

What I suspect you mean is your user space. Are you looking for User:Lord Milner/sandbox/Who United the Western Front During World War I, which I found by looking at your contributions?

If you want to see all subpages of your user space, go to your contributions Special:Contributions/Lord Milner, and pick "Subpages" from the bottom. ColinFine (talk) 22:01, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

All my contributions have come straight from "hell", and I have been told that i'm not using Wikipedia correctly. Is a draft page something I must create before listing new topics? (hell=sandbox). If so, that is the procedure I need. Thanks for your generosity. Lord Milner (talk) 22:07, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

@Lord Milner: You have something of a history of creating articles and drafts that are quickly deleted, as your deleted contributions show. I'd recommend that you follow the AfC procedure in the future so that someone can review your drafts for suitability as mainspace articles. Deor (talk) 22:43, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your advice. It looks like all new drafts are started at the AfC page, here: Wikipedia:Drafts#Creating and editing drafts

Does Draft namespace have real advantages over a personal sandbox? I get set in my ways. Lord Milner (talk) 04:19, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello again. There's not a lot to choose between them, and you can certainly carry on using personal sandboxes. Draft namespace was created specifically for the purpose, and AFC automatically puts drafts there and gives them an appropriate header; but you can add a corresponding header to a sandbox with {{user sandbox}}. Many people call their sandbox "sandbox" or "sandbox2" etc, which doesn't give a clue to the contents; but I see you use a named subpage of your sandbox anyway. People normally won't edit another editor's sandbox without being asked to, whereas a draft in draft space may be seen as already out in the community. One possibly negative point about drafts is that they are liable to be deleted if unchanged for six months, whereas pages in userspace only get deleted if they contravene a WP policy. ColinFine (talk) 10:49, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Draft creation

I need help in my draft creation. I want to know that what points i needed to remove or change. I need some help in finalizing my draft. Draft Name:- Kuldeep Kumaar. Rajkumarsingh1988 (talk) 12:47, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: Draft:Kuldeep Kumaar Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 12:48, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

@Rajkumarsingh1988: The draft needs published sources that provide significant coverage of Kumaar, not just passing mentions. The "Theatre" section has no references at all. Titles of films and plays should be italicized. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 13:18, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank You. Rajkumarsingh1988 (talk) 13:27, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Editing the page

Hi I'm new to wikipedia. I want to remove some content that I believe is not required in The Concourse, Chatswood - Wikipedia. Should I discuss about it on the article's talk page? TNM101 (talk) 13:12, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi, TNM101 and welcome to the Teahouse. Since you've only made eight edits, it's maybe better that you discuss the changes on the talk page, unless they're trivial, and especially if the text you want to remove is backed-up by sources. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 13:16, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Ok thanks a lot. The text I want to remove does not have any citations TNM101 (talk) 13:19, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Given that there's a bunch of unsourced content in that article, there's never been a talkpage discussion, there hasn't been an article edit in 2023 and the last content edit was this addition of unsourced text in February 2019, I don't think there's likely to be much engagement on the talkpage; I would suggest TNM101 would be better off being bold and making the change. Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 13:23, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

I already added a topic on the talkpage. Should I delete it now? TNM101 (talk) 13:25, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

I did the edit. Thank you for helping me TNM101 (talk) 13:35, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

I wouldn't delete what you wrote on the Talk page, but you could give a reply to yourself, stating that you went ahead and made changes. Karenthewriter (talk) 15:16, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank you TNM101 (talk) 15:21, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Fleet Walker Image with Toledo Blue Stockings

In your entry for FLEET WALKER, the first African-American to play a full season of baseball for a Major League team (1884), you have an image of him with his team, the Toledo Blue Stockings. My Question: Is that image in the public domain? Do you need to cite a source for your images? (It is published in the Zang biography of Fleet Walker, and there is attributed to an individual, who is acknowledged.) 71.218.254.240 (talk) 16:52, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

i assume this is about File:1882 University of Michigan baseball team.jpg. yes, the file is in the public domain, as works created before 1928 fall under public domain under united states law. lettherebedarklight晚安 16:55, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Lettherebedarklight is correct that it is in the public domain. In regards to your question about citing a source, I assume you are talking about citing the image in Wikipedia? Files uploaded to Wikipedia or Commons force you to provide a source (when you click that image it will bring up those details), so there's no need for an additional reference in the article. If you are talking about citing your sources in another place than Wikipedia, it largely depends on what you are doing. Because there is no copyright, no attribution is required for use in other works, but if you are writing an academic paper or something else that always requires citations, you will need to provide attribution in that case. Tollens (talk) 17:00, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

List of all Wikipedia pages I've added references to?

Is there a way to get a list of Wikipedia pages I've added references to? I plan to do upkeep for all the sources I use for my Wikipedia contributions. Like sometimes there's better quality scans that become available for gaming magazines that I cite which I want to update the Wikipedia articles with in a straightforward way. AlphaRex1984 (talk) 17:06, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

You can search your contributions' edit summaries via https://sigma.toolforge.org/summary.py?name=AlphaRex1984&search=ref&max=500&server=enwiki&ns=None This relies on you being systematic in your edit summaries though, but it's worth a try to start. Umimmak (talk) 17:14, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Alright, thank you. AlphaRex1984 (talk) 17:33, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Theakston Brewery

Can some one have a look at the following link on Theakston Brewery "Brewer goes back to its roots". I just can not get it to work. Regards Devokewater 17:40, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

• Hi Devokewater what do you mean by "I just can not get it to work"? Regards KylieTastic (talk) 18:25, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
  • Hi KylieTastic if you click on the link the web page does not appear. Regards -- Devokewater 18:27, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

• Devokewater it works for me. Maybe you have a browser setting to only allow https (secure connections) and this link only works as http? There is a sort of https version this but it does not render exactly the same and has some page issues. KylieTastic (talk) 18:34, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

I seem to be able to access the webpage, if that's what you're wondering. Are you looking for help creating references? Tollens (talk) 18:26, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Yes help is required in creating the reference. Regards -- Devokewater 18:28, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks KylieTastic it working now. Regards -- Devokewater 18:31, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks KylieTastic could you fix this one too "Brewer Theakston's expands plant". BBC News. 10 September 2003. Retrieved 8 December 2004. {{cite news}}: Check |url= value (help) Regards -- Devokewater 18:39, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Should be fixed now. Tollens (talk) 19:01, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Revised Edition book having same ISBN, but different page numbers

I'm trying to edit the Type 38 Arisaka page, but I realized that the book "The Type 38 Arisaka" and "The Type 38 Arisaka Revised Edition" has the same ISBN, but greatly different page numbers, with the revised edition being about 2/3rds the length due to the removal of many serial number charts. If I want to cite the revised edition, with the article still having citing from the original edition, what would I do to differentiate them? Rebel1945 (talk) 04:12, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Per ISBN,org the revised edition should not have the same ISBN. See http://isbn.org/faqs_formats_reprints_editions Meters (talk) 04:43, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Rebel1945, for those two books to share a single ISBN is something that should never happen. However, such things (and worse) do happen. There are various approaches; what I'd do is:

• Put the bibliography of Type 38 rifle into alphabetical-by-author order, not only because doing so is the conventional thing, but also to reduce the risk that the hurried reader will notice only one of the pair.
• Where the article now has for example "Allan and Macy. p.4-5", change this to "Allan and Macy (year), pp. 4–5" in which year is whichever is appropriate of 2007 and 2021.
• Attach a note such as {{efn-lr|name=isbn_confusion|The 2007 and 2021 editions of this book have different content and different pagination; however, they share a single ISBN.}} to the end of either one of the two relevant bibliography entries.
• Attach {{efn-lr|name=isbn_confusion}} to the end of the other relevant bibliography entry.
• Immediately before the "References" section; add another header, "Notes"; and under this header, add {{notelist-lr}}

-- Hoary (talk) 04:47, 5 June 2023 (UTC) typos fixed Hoary (talk) 10:30, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

By all indications, the authors appear to be self-publishing the revised edition. Maybe that's why the ISBN has not changed. User:Rebel1945, I see you've already added edition=Revised to the cite book template. You could create a separate reference for each version, and leave the old page numbers attached to the old version while adding new info with the pages in your version. For the sfn and harv families of shortened footnote templates, you can differentiate between the two editions using the ref= parameter in the citation templates. Definitely an unusual situation. Folly Mox (talk) 19:45, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Request to change the way a dead link is presented

I recently made a dumb error when trying to access an internet link that had been transferred to archive.org - I clicked the words "the original", thinking this would lead to the original document from which the quote was taken, and then when it failed got the impression that the link was not working. I think it is misleading that a dead link is presented in the same format as a working one. For the benefit of users who are not fluent in the Wikipedia presentation, could the structure that implements these links be modified to use words such as "the original link" or "the old link", to lessen the chances of misunderstanding? Or could the text be in red rather than blue, as for other dead links? The particular link that confused me is the James Randi link 11 in section "Criticism" of the article "Skinwalker Ranch". 203.221.25.134 (talk) 19:08, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi IP editor,

You may want to check out the Village Pump. We cannot do much to help here. ✶Mitch199811✶ 19:50, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Neutrality and advertisment-like information

Hello. I am quite new and I mainly copy-edit articles and sections with a neutral point of view issue. How could a neutral point of view could be reached, if there is a lack of consensus between editors? For example, in this article Lister Mills there were some issues with neutrality, but my edit has been reverted by another editor. My question is not about this article per se, but I would like to know how consensus is typically reached to remove advertisment-like information and improve neutrality. Chiserc (talk) 19:35, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

You simply discuss the matter with the relevant editor(s), typically on the talk page of the affected article. You can notify the involved editors that you'd like their input using the {{ping}} template (as an example, if you wanted to notify me you would write {{ping|Tollens}}, which renders as @Tollens:). Try looking at a few random talk pages for examples of content discussions. Other editors don't typically mind discussing content with you if you'd like. In this particular case, feel free to create a new section on Talk:Lister Mills and describe your concern, pinging the relevant editor. Tollens (talk) 19:43, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Great, thank you very much! Chiserc (talk) 20:07, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

I would think a really important question: Can we delete items that are false according to the reference?

I have found some items that are false on the pages. It may have been misunderstood when it was written. Where I see this almost consistently is for awards or prizes. Sometimes, it was a misunderstanding:

The person worked at a company and the company received an award.

All in all, it seems logical to delete things that are clearly false, but wanted to make sure.

Starlighsky (talk) 20:38, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

You can absolutely delete anything that is blatantly false - just make sure to explain in your edit summary what you're doing and why, so that other editors can verify that the removal was appropriate - unexplained deletions are often reverted. Tollens (talk) 20:41, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Starlighsky (talk) 20:44, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

@Starlighsky: There are several things you could do, including boldly deleting the erroneous information, tagging the reference with {{failed verification}}, or starting a conversation on the article's talk page. GoingBatty (talk) 20:42, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Starlighsky (talk) 20:45, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Friendly welcome to possible sockpuppeter

I have stumbled across what appears to be a very new user apparently sockpuppeting (two brand new accounts editing the same four pages in succession). Just pointing them to WP:SOCKPUPPET does not seem very welcoming; does anyone know a friendlier template or policy page that I could use, please? I couldn't find anything suitable at Wikipedia:Welcoming committee/Welcome templates. Or should I go straight to starting a sockpuppet investigation? Matt's talk 08:39, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

In my opinion, M.R.Forrester, it would be best to name the accounts here so experienced editors can examine the situation and give you situational advice. If you don't want them notified of this discussion, then use Template:Noping. Alternatively, there is this usertalk template that can be used: Template:Multiple account query. --Softlavender (talk) 10:00, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

@Softlavender, the relevant user seems to be 陳元棟. happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 10:09, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

And who is or are the suspected sockpuppet(s), Melecie? Softlavender (talk) 10:11, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

This appears to refer to some odd behaviour from User:香謝賢林欣彤. Shantavira|^{feed me} 11:41, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Yes, those are the accounts concerned, Softlavender. FYI 陳元棟 is a conventional (probably but not certainly male) Chinese personal name and 香謝賢林欣 is a punny expression of support for the Cantopop singer Mag Lam, so there's nothing objectionable about the usernames. Matt's talk 15:41, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

M.R.Forrester are any of the two accounts' edits constructive? If not, I would report them to an administrator or noticeboard as WP:NOTHERE, WP:DE, and obvious sockpuppetry. Softlavender (talk) 22:53, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Is this notable enough?

Hello! I've been doing research on my great-grandfather. He was a radio operator in World War 2 and his plane was shot down during Operation Market Garden over the Netherlands. He was held in a prisoner of war camp and participated in a death march to a concentration camp where he was eventually liberated by US forces. I've done extensive research on him, the other people involved in the crash, and the events of his life and surrounding the mission. I could write articles about each of those topics, however I am not sure if the people involved are notable enough? Jacobpie09 (talk) 18:42, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Check reliable, verifiable, independent Regards -- Devokewater 18:51, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

The notability guideline for people outlines a couple criteria you can use to gauge notability - it really comes down to the amount of coverage they received in reliable sources. For the most relevant parts of the policy, you'll probably want to read WP:BASIC and WP:ANYBIO (both part of the larger guideline I linked above). Keep in mind that people notable only for their connection with a single event are often excluded - that policy is available at WP:SINGLEEVENT. Tollens (talk) 18:52, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Jacobpie09. For what it's worth, my uncle was a crew member on a U.S. bomber shot down over Italy in 1943. My wife's uncle spent 2-1/2 years in a Japanese POW camp in the Philippines. Neither survived. In this case, it depends on whether your great-grandfather is the subject of significant coverage in reliable, independent published sources. Your unpublished research cannot be used. See No original research, which is policy. Cullen328 (talk) 18:53, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

In addition to the fine suggestions before this, I recommend WP:YFA, WP:42, and WP:BACKWARD. - UtherSRG (talk) 19:01, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

If the concentration camp was Berga concentration camp there is that article about it, but note that it does not connect to articles about any of the prisoners. David notMD (talk) 01:09, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Who do I contact about needed edits in locked articles?

For example, I noticed that the article on Donald Trump, which can only be edited by those with over 500 edits and so on, had what seemed like an inappropriate reference to those who declare large financial losses and so on. I am not the level to edit. How do I let those who can edit know about the issue?

Starlighsky (talk) 00:19, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Starlighsky. Discuss your concern at Talk: Donald Trump. Cullen328 (talk) 01:28, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Starlighsky (talk) 01:34, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

How to copy an existing page?

If advisable, how can one copy an existing page (article) to the sandbox? I want to write a new article about a chemical compound that doesn't exist on Wikipedia. I think it's easiest to copy an existing article (such as the one on Allyl_isothiocyanate) and then modify it in the sandbox with data for the new compound. I don't want to replace the existing article. How can I copy an existing page? Is there a better way to create a new page using the template of an existing one? Mitality (talk) 00:54, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Mitality. Yes, you can copy an article into your personal sandbox for the purpose you describe. Copy and paste the Wikicode using the source editor. Mention the source article in your edit summary. Do not use the main sandbox because it gets cleared out regularly. Be sure that you eliminate all traces of the original topic as you edit. Cullen328 (talk) 01:42, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Which pages have the most page watchers?

Hi everyone. Is there a place I can find a list of the pages that have the most page watchers? Thanks Trawle (talk) 21:11, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello,Trawle. Please see Wikipedia:Database reports/Most-watched pages by namespace. Cullen328 (talk) 21:24, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi Cullen, I notice that one is dated 2017 though. Surely things have changed in the last 6 years? Trawle (talk) 21:53, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Yup 2601:480:4104:A550:29FD:CB22:BBFD:FCC (talk) 22:22, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Trawle, there are instructions at the top about how to request an update. Cullen328 (talk) 22:26, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi Cullen, I’m afraid I don’t see any instructions. Is there a link I might be missing? Trawle (talk) 23:01, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Trawle, at the top of that page, it says If you would like a historical database report be run again, see the main database reports talk page. Here is the link: Wikipedia talk:Database reports. Cullen328 (talk) 02:18, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

External links subject bar

Hi, I hope you are doing good. I have a question related to the subject bar that is present on some of the articles as here: Priyanka Chopra#External links. I just wanted to know the merit of adding this to the biography articles. Can I proceed with that? 456legend(talk) 02:13, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

@456legend: You're referring to the template {{Priyanka Chopra}} that happens to be under the "external links" heading but isn't actually part of that section. That template includes several article titles and it can be included at the bottom of those articles if appropriate. ~Anachronist (talk) 02:43, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

@Anachronist No sorry, I am referring to the subject bar that contains the commons category, wiki data item and subject related portals. 456legend(talk) 02:44, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

@456legend: Oh, you're referring to Template:Subject bar. There is no harm adding it to other articles (with appropriately different parameters, of course). Be sure to read the documentation. ~Anachronist (talk) 03:26, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

@Anachronist Thank you very much for the input. 456legend(talk) 03:52, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Just wanted to point out...

As I was looking across Wikipedia, I realised that the "post-20th century Space Race" or "modern space race" isn't a thing on here! The modern space race between the U.S., China, and Russia has been referenced more and more frequently across the Web (more so through Euronews, The Wall Street Journal, the Associated Press, the Guardian, WIRED, and the Washington Past). There are a lot more if you look, so I was wondering whether it was time to create a separate article for this "modern space race" - or is it just WP:TOOSOON?. I do understand there is a "billionaire space race", but surely you can see there is not really a 'superb' relation. --WellThisIsTheReaper ^Grim 00:28, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello @WellThisIsTheReaper:, and welcome to the Teahouse! This topic in my opinion is notable and you have reliable sources so I would recommend writing a draft and submitting it to Afc (just to make sure the article is notable enough).This subject appears to be written about by many independent sources, so I think you are good to go. As time goes by other editors can add more sources and information as more news articles, reports ect. appear. Happy Editing! The Capitalist forever (talk) 05:32, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Obsolete or disused terms in historical articles

Do you have any kind of guideline, perhaps somewhere in your style manual, around the use of a now obsolete term in an article covering the period when it was in common use? What this comes down to is whether your article about the period should include the term then in use or whether that term should be overwritten by a modern equivalent that did not exist, within context, at the time.

This concerns a technical term but I'm not giving you specifics as yet until I first see if you have any stated policy or guideline on disused terminology. Overwriting a term that was valid at the time, because one of your "experts" does not like it, amounts to rewriting history. Don't worry, it's not about using the N-word or something so offensive. Thanks in anticipation. 92.31.5.221 (talk) 13:49, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

I should perhaps add that a note about the change of terminology would be entirely appropriate. 92.31.5.221 (talk) 14:04, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

In most situations a simple explanatory footnote can be used to explain. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 14:11, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm not aware of any policy, so it would all depend on context, e.g. if the term is linked to an explanation (or a footnote) then it should be fine. Do the reliable sources use that word? "Obsolete" is a relative concept; a word that is unfamiliar to you might still be be the correct one in that context. Also beware of introducing anachronisms. Shantavira|^{feed me} 14:19, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Would you expect the average reader of the article to be familiar with the term (if it's not explanatory)? That might help. Dege31 (talk) 14:34, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

I'd second the notes above about using a footnote. However, Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Contested vocabulary suggests that in some cases the word switch should be avoided. Without more information I can't really tell whether your case would be covered though. Tollens (talk) 14:55, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

If Wikipedia has an article on the obsolete term (e.g. mangonel, thirlage), I'd recommending using it, and wikilinking to its article. Maproom (talk) 16:36, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Apologies for not replying sooner but thank you, all, for five very helpful suggestions. This would not be a contested vocabulary and, although there isn't an actual article on the term, I think it should be used with a footnote that explains the recent change of terminology. I'll consider it further but, again, thank you very much for your interest. All the best. 92.31.5.221 (talk) 05:51, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Trouble Uploading Non-Free Files for New Articles

In order to upload a non-free image to wikimedia it needs to be linked to a published page, but my unpublished page for this artist is still a draft until I can add images to it. How can I solve this paradox? I have 6 images including a self portrait and several examples of the artist's work, which I have permission to add but they are non-free. Gigapede (talk) 18:51, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Images are not relevant to the draft approval process, which only considers the text and sources. Images can wait until the draft is placed in the encyclopedia. 331dot (talk) 18:55, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

@Gigapede: Wikipedia's non-free content use policy only allows non-free content to only be used in the aritcle namespace and only when all ten of these criteria are met. As explained also explained here, non-free content should be uploaded and added after a draft has been approved as an article. Finally, the fact that you want to upload six non-free image as an example of an artists work is not necessary prohibitted, but it could be considered exessive non-free use per WP:NFC#Meeting the contextual significance criterion and WP:NFC#Meeting the minimal usage criterion, and even possibly meeting the WP:NFC#Meeting the no free equivalent criterion. If the artist you're trying to create an article about is still living, then a non-free image of them isn't going to be allowed for primary identification purposes, even if it's a self-portrait. A non-free self-portrait could be allowed as a representative example of the artist's particular style, if they're particularly notable for their portraits and the self-portrait has been the subject of critical commentary in reliable sources. Similarly, other examples of the artist's work might be OK if they're considered representative works or otherwise the subject of sourced critical commentary themselves, but six representative works might be pushing it a bit, particularly if they are all the same style, technique or genre. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:59, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Where can I request for long standing Wikipedia guidelines on birthplaces to be changed?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The OP has been advised that changes to current Wikipedia policy can be made at WP:VPR; they can also make a proposal at WT:MOSBIO since that the talk page corresponding to WP:BIRTHPLACE. There's nothing really more to discuss here. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:07, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

---

Wikipedia drives me mad, which is why I stay away from it. IMDB may contain a lot of mistakes, be massively incomplete (even with feature films), and have loads of false information, but at least facts like birth details are a lot harder to remove, plus they use current locations, not historic locations.

Why?

1 - Because of people constantly removing mentions and references of City of Bradford, from people, places and things from City of Bradford. Largely those people are from towns and villages in Bradford itself, who like to pretend they're not from Bradford, and still refer to West Yorkshire, as the West Riding of Yorkshire.

Bradford (the 6th biggest city in the UK) is 3 times bigger than Manchester and Liverpool, twice the size of Birmingham, 17 times bigger than Westminster, and 141 times bigger than the tiny City of London, but because of these stupid guidelines, you'd think it was the other way around.

2 - Because Wikipedia, like most of the world, refuses to accept the fact that Greater London is not a city, and never has been.

It's a county and region which contain 2 tiny cities.

3 - Because of Wikipedia believing that all left wing sources in the UK are accurate, while all right wing sources in the UK are inaccurate, yet I constantly see mistakes in left wing sources like The Guardian and the Independent, every single time I read a story from them. It doesn't matter what the reference is being used to prove, or whether the source is listed as generally unreliable, deprecated or blacklisted, as soon as they're used, they're removed by liberals automatically, regardless of the explanations. Danstarr69 (talk) 19:34, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

You say you stay away from here, but here you are.

You may discuss changing a policy on its associated talk page, or at the Village Pump.

A source being "right wing" or "left wing" is not relevant as to its being considered a reliable source. What matters is its reputation for fact checking and editorial control. If they make stuff up out of whole cloth, they won't be considered reliable. If a source is making errors in its reporting, you need to take that up with the source, not us. If a media outlet has so many errors that it should be considered unreliable, that is a matter for the reliable sources noticeboard. 331dot (talk) 19:56, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

The idea that Wikipedia considers left-wing sources as accurate while right-wing ones are considered inaccurate should be disabused by a brief look at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources, Danstarr69. E.g. The Canary is listed as generally unreliable whereas the Telegraph is listed as generally reliable. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:03, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Danstarr. Wikipedia, like most of the world is exactly the point. If you want a careful disquisition on the legal status and governance of Greater London or of City of Bradford MDC, you'll find it in those articles. But Wikipedia generally is not very interested in using official names, but refers to things (and people) using their WP:COMMONNAME, the name used in the majority of relevant sources. ColinFine (talk) 21:38, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

"Bradford ... is 3 times bigger than Manchester and Liverpool, twice the size of Birmingham". Bradford has a population of 366,000, Manchester 551,000, Liverpool 500,000, and Birmingham 1,144.000. Maproom (talk) 21:50, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

You may be interested in reading WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. XAM2175 ^(T) 22:13, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Maproom with a name like that, you might be interested in...

1 - Facts from the Office for National Statistics aka the only official source for UK statistics, by simply have a quick look at online census which even you should be able to do [10] & [11], without the need to download complicated XLS files.

2 - Looking the Subdivisions of England map or simply have a quick look at this zoomed in map I made earlier [12] to see that the propaganda you've been hearing for the last 20+ years is completely false.

Bradford - 141.3 square miles - 7th biggest city in England

Birmingham - 103.4 square miles - 15th biggest city in England

Manchester - 44.7 square miles - 19th biggest city in England

Liverpool - 43.2 square miles - 21st biggest city in England

Westminster - 8.1 square miles - 48th biggest city in England

London - 1.15 square miles - 55th biggest city in England

Birmingham population 2011 Census - 1,073,045

Bradford population 2011 Census - 522,452

Manchester population 2011 Census - 503,127

Liverpool population 2011 Census - 466,415

Westminster population 2011 Census - 219,396

City of London population 2011 Census - 7,375

Birmingham population 2020 Actual - 1,140,525

Manchester population 2020 Actual - 555,741

Bradford population 2020 Actual - 542,128

Liverpool population 2020 Actual- 500,474

Westminster population 2020 Actual - 269,848

City of London population 2020 Actual - 10,938

Birmingham population 2021 Census - 1,144,900

Manchester population 2021 Census - 552,000

Bradford population 2021 Census - 546,400

Liverpool population 2021 Census - 486,100

Westminster population 2021 Census - 204,300

City of London population 2021 Census - 8,600 Danstarr69 (talk) 03:01, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

sorry, we're not interested in your fringe beliefs. lettherebedarklight晚安 03:08, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Lettherebedarklight Everything I've said is fact.

Who reads The Canary, as it's not a mainstream newspaper like the others.

Every single right wing mainstream paper has restrictions, or are all blocked entirely in most Wikipedians eyes.

Whereas every single left wing mainstream paper is fine.

Bradford has always been bigger than Manchester in every sense until 2015, when it's population leapfrogged Bradford.

As you can clearly see from any UK map with city/town/borough borders,Bradford, Leeds, Wakefield, and many more towns and cities are bigger than Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool etc by area.

London is not a city, never has been a city, and never will be a city, as it would be impossible to make it a city, unless the king forcibly removed the city status' of the City of Westminster and the City of London. Danstarr69 (talk) 03:20, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

yeah, that's about the same words right-wingers and flat earthers use. lettherebedarklight晚安 03:27, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

I just remembered though according to a survey conducted by an independent news source, left wingers outnumber right wingers on Wikipedia 2:1. The Capitalist forever (talk) 05:42, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Change the name of article

Hi,

I'm editing this Wikipedia article: Stuart Pimm and would like to change the name of the article to Stuart L. Pimm. I haven't been able to find a place where to change the name of the article. Can you please help me? I'm working with Visual Editor.

Naturesolutionary Naturesolutionary (talk) 18:17, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

@Naturesolutionary: You can do this by moving the article if you are autoconfirmed, but I can do it for you if appropriate. Before I do, please note that article titles should use the most common name used to refer to the subject. This doesn't seem based on my quick scan to be the case here - is this correct, or is their middle initial commonly used (not just in citations)? Tollens (talk) 18:24, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Hello, Naturesolutionary. The procedure is called "moving" but new accounts such as yours do not have that power. You can ask at Wikipedia:Requested moves. Cullen328 (talk) 18:28, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

@Cullen328 Thank you for your reply! Naturesolutionary (talk) 08:46, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

I'd be grateful if you moved the article for me. Thank you. I looked at different websites and I think that the Stuart L. Pimm is more common and appropriate. (ResearchGate, Britannica, various articles). Naturesolutionary (talk) 18:28, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

ResearchGate and Britannica will likely use the full name of a person regardless - what articles in particular are you referencing? When I look through the list of sources in the article which are not academic (which always use a middle initial), I see this CV, that only uses the middle initial in the title, this article that only uses the middle initial in the title and first sentence, this article that does not include a middle initial, this article with no initial, this article with no initial, and this article with no initial. Is there something I'm misunderstanding, or were you primarily considering the academic sources? Tollens (talk) 18:45, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

@Tollens Okay. Thanks for the explanation. No problem. We can keep the name the same. Naturesolutionary (talk) 08:46, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

article rejection

Hi, today i submitted an article about my self. i cleared each is everything i used secure internal link add citations, and reference also then i got lose my page. Larrybuckley12 (talk) 09:08, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: User:Larrybuckley12/sandbox Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 09:34, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

You have been given good advice on your talk page. Is there anything there that is unclear? Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:39, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

basically, i tried to write an article about my self. Larrybuckley12 (talk) 09:43, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

I could not get any article from your draft. Larrybuckley12 (talk) 09:40, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

The sandbox draft was speedily deleted. See your talk page for details. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 09:44, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

• Larrybuckley12 Wikipedia is not a place for people to tell the world about themselves. Please see the autobiography policy. Wikipedia is interested in what others say about you and what makes you important- what we term "notability". It's usually very difficult for people to tell us what others say about them in a neutral point of view, as people naturally write favorably about themselves. 331dot (talk) 09:53, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
• Larrybuckley12, you call what you wrote an article. But it didn't look at all like an article. No, it was instead cliché-filled promotional junk. -- Hoary (talk) 11:54, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

User:Achrbp/sandbox

what is the issue with this article Achrbp (talk) 13:17, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Achrbp and welcome to the Teahouse. Well, one thing is that Wikipedia articles are not reliable sources and shouldn't be used as references. Take those away and there's virtually nothing left to show WP:NOTABILITY. And external links shouldn't be used in the body of an article. Non-Wikipedia external links could perhaps be converted to citations and used in the article body. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 13:21, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

As you've been advised, please read Help:Referencing for beginners, WP:GOLDENRULE, and also Help:Link. And begin by finding reliable sources, then write text that reflects what those sources actually say, not the other way round (finding sources to support what you want to say). Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 13:34, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

not approved

hello sir my name nadeem ansari. im owen celerhoding compan before create profiles not approved why? help me please Decafion (talk) 14:06, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Decafion, Wikipedia does not accept profiles. It accepts well-referenced articles on notable subjects; but creating one is difficult. Maproom (talk) 14:13, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Decafion, and welcome to the Teahouse. You may be referring to User:Decafion/sandbox, which had an article submission rejection today. Your article had no references; please have a look at Wikipedia:Referencing for beginners for advice on how to add citations to this article. Also, per WP:AUTO, you have a conflict-of-interest with this draft, and autobiographies are generally discouraged. ContributeToTheWiki (talk • contribs) 14:24, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Can we use Wikipedia articles are a reliable source for references?

I just had a reference deleted with the comment that Wikipedia is not a reliable source. If that type of revert is allowed, are there generally accepted ideas on what articles in Wikipedia are reliable sources? I want to add that the article was in mathematics. Starlighsky (talk) 15:24, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Starlighsky and welcome to the Teahouse. Indeed, Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a reliable source. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 15:27, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Starlighsky (talk) 15:34, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

@starlighsky: none whatsoever. lettherebedarklight晚安 15:27, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Starlighsky (talk) 15:34, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Old Sources

Hi Guys,

I have a question regarding old sources. So I found an ancient news paper article, a print. However, I tried looking for it on its publisher's website, but the article does not appear, my best guess is due to how old the article is. I was wondering if I could still use this article as a source? I could send a picture to confirm its authenticity, however I just want to know if I can use sources such as these old prints as my sources?

Hope to hear from y'all soon,

Best,

-MMM MedicalMrMoose (talk) 16:02, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

MedicalMrMoose Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. When you provide a source, enough information needs to be given so that someone could find it and verify the information for themselves. That will usually mean things like title, author, publisher, publication date, page numbers, and if necessary where you found it(like a library archive). As long as someone could locate the source themselves, it can probably be used. 331dot (talk) 16:08, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse! The source you mention, assuming it is archived somewhere (which presumably it is since you managed to find it) and meets other requirements for reliability, is absolutely fine. From the guideline: "It is convenient, but by no means necessary, for the archived copy to be accessible via the Internet." WPscatter ^t/_c 16:09, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much! MedicalMrMoose (talk) 16:16, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

New Article Approval

Hi, I just wanted to know how long it takes for a published article to be reviewed and approved on wikipedia. Myloking (talk) 16:18, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Myloking Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. You haven't yet submitted your sandbox for review, most likely because you lack the information needed to do so(this is provided if you use the article wizard to create and submit a draft). I'll shortly add the appropriate information to allow you to submit it. There is no set timeframe for a review- there is a backlog of thousands of drafts and a limited number of reviewers, who conduct reviews in no particular order. Patience will be required. You increase the chances of a speedy review by making sure that your article summarizes what independent reliable sources with significant coverage choose to say about this musician, showing how they meet the special Wikipedia definition of a notable musician.

If you are associated with this musician, you will need to read about conflict of interest and paid editing for information on formal disclosures you may need to make. 331dot (talk) 16:30, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Is it okay to give your social media on your user page or talk page?

I have a YouTube channel someone asked about on my talk page. Am I allowed to link it to them? Am I also allowed to link it somewhere on my user page as well? Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 17:21, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Immanuelle Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Per WP:UP#PROMO, "Extensive self-promotional material, especially when not directly relevant to Wikipedia" is not permitted on userpages. If you want to share your YouTube with another Wikipedian, the best way would be via the "Email this user" function if the other user has enabled it. 331dot (talk) 17:29, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

I'll note that extensive is a subjective term. If it's in reply on your talk page, it's a single instance, and your talk page is regularly archived, I would not deem this extensive. If you were creating a seciton on your user page that you intend to stay up indefinitely. I would deem that as extensive. The dividing line is somewhere between. - UtherSRG (talk) 18:09, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

@Immanuelle: Also, if your user page is predominantly about your activity on Wikipedia, and you happen to mention your youtube channel somewhere in there, I don't see a problem. For example, I mention my own blog on my page, but I don't emphasize it. ~Anachronist (talk) 18:44, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

How to make a wiki page for your business

I bet this has been asked 1000 times before but every time I google how to make a Wikipedia page I get 3rd party websites looking to sell their services. I am the marketing head of a group of restaurants in the valley. I would love to make one or multiple Wikipedia pages about our restaurants’ history and role in Phoenix. What would be the first few steps if this is possible? Thank you for your help! MirellaIordano (talk) 18:33, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Wikipedia is not an advertising space. In order to have a Wikipedia article created about your business, there must be several reliable secondary sources that establish that your business is notable. In addition, you would be strongly discouraged from creating or editing this article yourself due to your conflict of interest.

Only if you have read through the guidelines I linked above and believe your business meets the criteria for an article, you may request that it be created, but there is no guarantee that it will be created (or created in a reasonable time frame). WPscatter ^t/_c 18:37, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

@MirellaIordano: First, see WP:PAID and provide the appropriate paid editing disclosure on your user page. You entered into a legally binding obligation to do this when you created your account.

Next, see WP:BACKWARD. You need to find reliable sources that provide significant independent coverage of the business, and you need to find these sources first, before you even start writing the article.

Third, see Wikipedia:Golden rule to get an idea of the kind of sources required.

Fourth, if you have done all of the above and you believe there is enough independent significant coverage of the business, only then can you start writing the article.

Finally, see WP:AFC for instructions on how to get started writing. But don't do this first, do the other steps I listed first. ~Anachronist (talk) 18:40, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

@MirellaIordano: See also WP:SCAM. GoingBatty (talk) 19:01, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

• I would also suggest that you read WP:BOSS. 331dot (talk) 19:16, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Anadyr (town)

Anadyr (town) can some one show me how to fix reference note 6. Regards Devokewater 17:54, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

@Devokewater: I think it is because you have not used the pop_latest set of parameters, so the template is attempting to look up the data and provide a reference, failing on the reference. If you fill in the latest, I think this will get resolved. - UtherSRG (talk) 18:56, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

@UtherSRG: Thanks -- Devokewater 19:24, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Resolving a conflict

The article is Michael Lockshin (film director)

There is an editor who for unexplained reasons keeps removing content with citations and replacing it with uncited information, without an explanation. This is growing into an annoyance for me because this has happened multiple times over the course of several weeks (but not often enough to complain about an edit war). The editor was also told on their talk page to stop making that specific edit (at least, without an explanation) by another editor, but seems to have ignored it and continues to make the same edit over and over. I would like any advice for a resolution. Thanks, Jaguarnik (talk) 22:48, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Stronger warning left on that editor's Talk page. David notMD (talk) 00:59, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello again. Thank you for your action. However, there is something new. There is a "new" editor who has made the exact same edits as the previous editor and focuses on the same two pages the previous editor did. I do not know if that's grounds for an accusation of sockpuppeting but it seems very odd to me. Thank you. Jaguarnik (talk) 20:55, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Editing article about me

Hi there, returning after 4 months - India, Covid - to the issue of improving my page O.R. Melling which is thin and sad. Having looked at the pages of fellow fantasy writers Michael Scott, Holly Black, Kate Thompson (the YA writer one) I've material written backed with citations that are not my own website. My understanding is that I CANNOT edit my own page but can post the material somewhere for an editor to hopefully consider and insert? When I first enquired about this everyone did agree the page needs updating. It was set up years ago by godknowswho. Please advise and thanks! PS one of the editors who responded to me was Orange Mike? (The name & the "not on Saint Patrick's Day" made me laugh) Could I send the material to him as he's also a fantasy/sci fi writer/fan? Val aka OR Val Decraney (talk) 21:03, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: O.R. Melling WPscatter ^t/_c 21:05, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Val Decraney (ec) Hello and welcome. You may propose edits on the associated article talk page, Talk:O. R. Melling. See edit request for how to make one. Perhaps you can offer independent reliable sources for the article, which is its major problem. 331dot (talk) 21:07, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Oh thanks a million! Tbh, I think what's offered isn't much to write home about either, never mind the lack of sources backing it up. The authors I've mentioned literally have essays written about them with separate titled sections and what not. I'll be providing material similar to similar to the way they've presented themselves or whoever did their pages for them. Have first tranche ready with citations. Will head over and pop it in and see how much of it is acceptable. Wish me luck and again, thanks for the advice! Wiki is brilliant, isn't it? Val Decraney (talk) 21:15, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Alexander Ovechkin page

I noticed on the Alexander Ovechkin Wikipedia page, the first site says he shoots 'Left Wing' which is not the proper verbiage...it should just be shoots 'Left'. But you go to the second page and its says he shoots 'right'. I was actually going there to find out which way he shoots so now Im confused. Is there a way to get it edited to be proper on both pages or who should I contact?

- A very concerned about Alexander Ovechkins stick fan ;) Vegabond81 (talk) 00:20, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Alexander Ovechkin is a hockey player. David notMD (talk) 01:00, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm not that knowledgeable about hockey terminology but this reminds me of the controversy over whether Andrew Tate was Orthodox or Muslim when Orthodox was a term referring to his kickboxing form not religion Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 01:08, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Please see Winger (ice hockey). "Left winger" and "right winger" in hockey have nothing to do with politics. These terms refer to the player's usual position on the ice. Cullen328 (talk) 01:33, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

His position is left winger. He shoots right-handed. The two things are unrelated and can both be true at the same time. WPscatter ^t/_c 21:00, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi Vegabond81, welcome to the Teahopuse. The infobox in Alexander Ovechkin correctly says "Position Left wing" and "Shoots Right". Blue text is links. Click it to see more. The article does not use the mixed and incorrect terminology "shoots 'Left Wing'". PrimeHunter (talk) 22:10, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

help removing a birthday from multiple versions (countries) of Wikipedia at once

Can someone help me remove a piece of personal data (birthdate) from multiple languages of wikipedia at the same time please? The goal is to remove that date so that other sites don't pick it up and share it online. 76.175.25.85 (talk) 21:11, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

I don't believe there is any way to do that in one swoop, as each language version is separate. I think you have to go to each version and request it there. If this birthdate is publicly known, it may be hard to keep it out. 331dot (talk) 21:14, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

It's definitely hard to keep it out. But I'm giving it my best effort to help with this. It's an uphill battle but needs to be done anyway. 76.175.25.85 (talk) 21:29, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

The policy for suppressing content is found at WP:OSPOL and you can request suppression at Special:EmailUser/Oversight. However you cannot suppress information that is already public, like 331dot said - Apmh 21:20, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Not true in this case. From WP:DOB: "If a subject complains about our inclusion of their date of birth, ... err on the side of caution and simply list the year". (Assuming that the impetus for this Teahouse topic is by subject request, of course - otherwise I'm not sure why they would want it to be removed in the first place.) WPscatter ^t/_c 21:22, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Age has been used against the person I want to help when it comes to employment. (Ageism). She's also had identity theft and it is best that her birthdate is not listed. 76.175.25.85 (talk) 21:27, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. Do you think erring on the side of caution could include the entire bday? It was fully removed in the English version but since I'm not a regular user, I'm concerned about doing it correctly in the foreign language versions. 76.175.25.85 (talk) 21:31, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

I get that you may not want to specify the article involved here(which is fine and understandable, I'm not asking you to) but if this individual is a well known public figure you may be fighting a losing battle; it will likely require constant vigilance depending on how well known they are. 331dot (talk) 21:40, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

This language wiki is quite good about removing birthdays when it's not well publicised or well sourced. Here's some advice: every language wiki will have some version of WP:V and WP:BLP. Find what they say, understand what constitutes a 'crap source', then quote the policies as if they're the gospel truth. Be insistent about the policies, but not to the extent of being too annoying. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 21:43, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Good advice. Thank you very much. 76.175.25.85 (talk) 21:44, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

@Wpscatter: Going to be honest, "err on the side of caution and simply list the year" sounds like a weird middle ground, and a weird rule overall. It's common Wikipedia knowledge that in general information is present no matter one's feelings (Wikipedia:An article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing#No ownership of articles) Apmh 21:45, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Perhaps it is a weird middle ground, but it is policy. Wikipedia certainly doesn't exist to store all information, so it stands to reason that there could be some information that we don't keep in an article for one reason or another. WPscatter ^t/_c 23:12, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

can some help help with my draft James Tucker page

could someone please help with my draft James Tucker page. I messed up the formatting. thanks !! Qstor2 (talk) 13:45, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: Draft:James Tucker (animator) Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 13:49, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Qstor2, I tried adding a "}" to close the table, but that didn't help. Then I noticed that the table had no useful content, so I removed it. Maproom (talk) 14:15, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. I messed it up. Qstor2 (talk) 23:39, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

T-Mobile ISP

Why are Wikipedia users blocked from editing or creating an account for simply having T-Mobile as their Internet provider? Onion1981 (talk) 03:57, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

@Onion1981: See Wikipedia:Advice_to_T-Mobile_IPv6_users for an explanation and advice. If you have an account, you should not be hit by the block. RudolfRed (talk) 04:22, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

I found two spanish wikipedia articles that I think should be merged.

I found two spanish wikipedia articles I think should be merged

• https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamartiolog%C3%ADa
• https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puntos_de_vista_cristianos_sobre_el_pecado

I'm not entirely sure if they need to be merged but the same articles were merged on English wikipedia and I believe various other wikipedias. What can I do here? Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 05:59, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Follow the guide at es:Wikipedia:Fusiones. – dudhhr ^talk _contribs (he/they) 06:09, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi Immanuelle. The various language Wikipedia projects have their own various policies and guidelines as well as their own respective communities. There might be quite a bit of overlapping or similarities between English Wikipedia and other projects, but they're still different projects. So, you probably should discuss your concerns over on Spanish Wikipedia and see what the Spanish Wikipedia community says. There's no "rule" that says all the Wikipedias have to be identical in each and every way. It's possible that those two articles should be merged, but it's also just as possible that they shouldn't. That's something that needs to be discussed on Spanish Wikipedia. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:11, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

How do you a cite a source when you are the firsthand source

I made an edit to musician Allen Stone's bio and how he arrived in Seattle. I thought my name and verified account would be enough to validate my contribution, but apparently not. I am the one who brought Allen to Seattle at the age of 17 and wanted to tell the story of how his earliest days in music came to be. The existing wikipedia page just said "Not long after, Stone moved to Seattle to pursue his musical career." I added more detail to follow that sentence. Any tips? DerekHoiem (talk) 18:54, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

@DerekHoiem: Wikipedia does not publish personal knowledge or original thought. We need to cite verifiable published sources that have a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. ~Anachronist (talk) 18:56, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Hello, DerekHoiem. I am sorry but you cannot add your personal knowledge to Wikipedia. The relevant core content policy is No original research. Cullen328 (talk) 19:00, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi Derek, and welcome to the Teahouse. I'm the editor that reverted your addition to the article. As the other replies mentioned, original research is not allowed on Wikipedia, and that includes first-hand experiences like this one. May I suggest reaching out to a news outlet who might be interested. If an article detailing your account is published in a reliable secondary source, which tend to have editorial fact-checking and the like, we can use that to add the content to the article. WPscatter ^t/_c 19:09, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

For an over-the-top example of that, DerekHoiem, see that article. Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 09:20, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

It worked. But I say again, at the time her twitter would have worked too. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:48, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Create a new Article

How can I create a new Article WorldPR (talk) 07:47, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

@worldpr: see our guidance on creating your first article. lettherebedarklight晚安 08:01, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Additionally, both WP:42 and WP:BACKWARD provide very helpful information on being successful in writing articles. - UtherSRG (talk) 13:46, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

How can i edit Article successfully?

why wikipedia is not accepet my editor articale? kindly guide me they easy way to become editor on wikipedia... Shahidashoaib (talk) 07:48, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Shahidashoaib. You are engaging in self-promotional activity on Wikipedia. Self-promotion is not permitted here. Cullen328 (talk) 08:01, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

You have also copied material word for word from a website which claims the copyright. Infringement of copyright is strictly forbidden here. Haploidavey (talk) 08:20, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

The easy way is to first familiarize yourself with our policies at Help:Introduction. Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:49, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

I think you forgot to put the actual link in your reply. Carpimaps ^{talk to me!} 15:12, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Wikidata

Hi, How do I add a image as a new statement on Wikidata item page. I don't find a option to edit in the Source mode. Any help is appreciated. 456legend(talk) 12:25, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Go to the bottom of the Statements list. Click "add statement". In the Property field, enter "image". In the next field to the right (value, but it's not labeled) enter "Canela cansada.jpg" (or other Commons image file name). Click "publish". --GRuban (talk) 13:53, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

@GRuban Thank you very much for the help. I am now able to insert the images. 456legend(talk) 15:53, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Looking for an expert

https://www.reddit.com/r/Cricket/comments/1447sg2/bumrahs_wikipedia_page_what_doping_scam_is_being/

Can anybody look into this case? Astounded by the fact that a small edit from me triggering such response. Had I have access, I would have used Wikiproject talk page. 2409:4088:9D4A:511F:0:0:E40A:9A14 (talk) 16:00, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

The article you're talking about isn't in your contribution history, so I have no idea what you're referring to.

You should always have access to article talk pages. ~Anachronist (talk) 16:08, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

@Anachronist: They are affected by a rangeblock that prevents access to all talk pages. Tollens (talk) 16:11, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

The article I'm speaking of is Jasprit Bumrah 2409:4088:9D4A:511F:0:0:E40A:9A14 (talk) 16:12, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

I assume you are referring to these edits? [13], [14], [15], [16]? Tollens (talk) 16:14, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Of course 2409:4088:9D4A:511F:0:0:E40A:9A14 (talk) 16:16, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks - your IP address changes periodically so it's somewhat difficult to identify edits made by you - just wanted to check. Tollens (talk) 16:17, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Some of the refs had a load of garbage in them or were using the wrong fields. - X201 (talk) 16:22, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks 2409:4088:9D4A:511F:0:0:E40A:9A14 (talk) 16:24, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Review of Article Removal

Hello. When I joined Wikipedia, I disclosed a conflict of interest as an employee of QOR360 on my user page: User: Sunshine1287. I then created a page about QOR360, which I submitted for review at the Articles for Creation queue. On the Talk page of the draft, I also disclosed my conflict of interest. It was accepted and published by the editor User: Cabrils. This was several months ago. On May 24, 2023, User:Smartse moved the published page to Draft, then somehow managed to delete the Draft the same day. I do not think Smartse used any of the deletion methods discussed at WP: Articles for Deletion since it was moved to draft and deleted the same day. What Smartse did do was accuse me of being an alternative account of an editor they believe to be an undisclosed paid editor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1128#Ban_proposal_for_undisclosed_paid_editor_Wikipedia_Genie It seems like this is the only reason for the deletion of the page I created.

When I noticed a discussion, I invited editors to contact me to confirm my identity – I am the co-founder of this company. I can be emailed at my company email or called. I did not try to hide that I have a conflict of interest. I followed all the steps at listed on the Conflict of Interest policy page.

A page approved by an independent editor seems to me should not be deleted without a discussion. I worked to assure the page met the standards of Notability for companies, including only reliable press coverage about the company and product. I also tried to follow the policies on Verification, Reliable Sources and Neutral Point of View.

I do not think the page was properly deleted and I would like to request that it be restored. Can someone please help? Sunshine1287 (talk) 14:33, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Sunshine1287 The proper forum to request review of the deletion is Deletion Review. That said, I don't think you should bring this matter there. If the deleting admin believed that you were a sockpuppet of a blocked user, the draft would qualify for speedy deletion as edits by blocked users are not allowed to stand. Speedy Deletion means that the article or other page nominated for it meets at least one of the speedy deletion criteria, and as such may be deleted without delay or discussion.

Wikipedia is not a place for companies to tell the world about themselves, their products, and what they do. That is considered promotional here, you don't have to be soliciting or selling something. Wikipedia has no interest in what a company wants to say about itself, only in what others completely unconnected with the company choose on their own to say about it and what makes it important/significant/influential in some way, showing how the company meets the special Wikipedia definition of a notable company. It is usually very, very difficult for company representatives such as yourself to write as Wikipedia requires, because you must set aside everything you know about the company and all materials it puts out, and only write based on what others say about the company. 331dot (talk) 14:39, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Sunshine1287 I'm fairly certain that you did not write the article yourself (I'm afraid I can't explain in public) but it is based on information both on and off Wikipedia. Unfortunately you have employed a company to write the article who has been blocked from editing Wikipedia. That they evidently found a way that they think means that they can just give you the article to submit and that will be fine, but WP:PROXYING clearly defines this as illegitimate and your edits should be treated as if you were working for the company. SmartSE (talk) 14:48, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Smartse I did not hire the company "WikiGenie" - this is simply false. I don't know what's making you think I hired "WikiGenie", and I have already offered to have Wikipedia contact me privately about this matter. I made this submission on my own behalf and I disclosed this every way I could. I am not acting as a "proxy" for a banned editor. I familiarized myself with the Wikipedia policy on notability for companies and provided plenty of "reliable" press coverage about the company and its products. I gathered all of the press coverage that Wikipedia says is allowable. The article tries to imitate other Wikipedia pages that are about businesses like my company. I had a bunch of people read the draft, but every final decision about the draft was mine alone. To be sure the article was OK, I submitted it where Wikipedia said I should since I have a conflict of interest -- the Articles for Creation noticeboard. And it was approved. I have no idea who the editor is who approved it and published it, but they, at least, must have agreed it qualified. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sunshine1287 (talk • contribs) 19:05, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

You posted this in the wrong thread, @Sunshine1287. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 18:10, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Redirect article has name about article i want to write about

So i have a little bit of a problem, there's this redirect article (Vacation Simulator) that takes you to Owlchemy Labs. However i want to create an article about Vacation Simulator since its a popular VR Game, But i dont understand what's the best course of action here, do i create a Special/Myuserpage article? do i create a draft? do i edit the redirect article? I don't understand, any explanation would help. Thanks! LucianMaganBall (talk) 16:51, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

LucianMaganBall create a draft. If it is accepted the reviewer will sort out the redirect stuff. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 17:01, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! LucianMaganBall (talk) 19:22, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Kunal Ghosh

I beseech any veteran editor to add some stuff to the article in caption. 2409:4088:9D4A:511F:0:0:E40A:9A14 (talk) 20:15, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello, and welcome to the Teahouse. The Teahouse is for newer editors to ask for help in editing Wikipedia, not a place to solicit contributions to articles. I suggest you ask at one or two of the WikiProjects listed at the top of Talk:Kunal Ghosh. ColinFine (talk) 21:27, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Moving the position of a Table

Hello, I am translating a Wikipedia biography from English into French. The English version is on the left side of the page; the French version on the right. The English version includes the author's list of books in a Table Format. An identical Table was automatically placed by Wikipedia? in the French column (right column) of the translation, adjacent to the English version (in the right column) . I am able to modify the information when necessary but I am not able to move the entire table up where it should appear. It is stuck in that spot. There is a large blank space above it where it should be placed, and I would like to be able to move it up. Thank you, in advance for suggesting a solution. Kind regards, Keudal39 Keudal39 (talk) 04:04, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

@Keudal39: Welcome to the Teahouse! What is the name of the article or draft you're working on? Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 04:30, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

@Keudal39: I guess this is about use of Special:ContentTranslation. I don't know whether you can move around text during the use of that tool. You may have to save the translation first and edit the saved page. Translations in progress with Special:ContentTranslation are not visible to other users so we cannot see what you are currently doing. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:32, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your reply and for the link to Content translation. It was helpful to watch the video about Content translation. I still need to learn how to move the Table and cells upward. I know how to do it in WORD (How to drag the table up) but it is not happening in Content Translation. I will try your suggestion. Thank you and kind regards, Keudal39 Keudal39 (talk) 23:05, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Watchlisting an editor's contributions

Is it possible to watchlist an editor's contributions? I recently came across a user, King Of OJ, whose only contributions have been to vandalize two articles. As they were only active on 21 April, I have not reported them to the administrators' noticeboard, but I wanted to be sure it's easy to spot if they do so in the future. Is this possible? TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 23:04, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

@TheTechnician27: No, this is not possible. You can watchlist the articles to which an editor regularly contributes. What you are suggesting has been proposed before, and rejected by the community, as it amounts to WP:STALKING.

One thing I've done is keep a browser tab open for a week or so with an edtor's contribution history. ~Anachronist (talk) 00:15, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

A clarification: while it's understandable that the functionality was not added because it would likely enable WP:STALKING, watching a vandal's contributions for the purposes of reverting the vandalism (as @TheTechnician27: seems to be asking about) does not constitute stalking. From the policy page: "The important component of hounding is disruption to another user's own enjoyment of editing, or disruption to the project generally, for no overridingly constructive reason." WPscatter ^t/_c 00:18, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

asking for reviewing wiki page draft

Draft:San Francisco Unicorns,  this is link to my draft, could you please review it as it is showing 'review in progress' for past 30 hours. Cric editor (talk) 09:24, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Pinging Rusalkii, the reviewer who placed the draft in review. 331dot (talk) 09:54, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

I was waiting for the redirect to be deleted, going to check on that now. Rusalkii (talk) 16:59, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

And done, thank you for the reminder. Rusalkii (talk) 17:01, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for contacting back, and for reviewing my first article Cric editor (talk) 05:30, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Template messes with image float

At the article Bærum mosque shooting, the template {{Islamophobia}} is pushing the other images down the page, as seen in this revision. I've temporarily hidden it to make the images appear in the correct places. Is there a way to prevent this from happening? ArcticSeeress (talk) 06:10, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

I've done some fiddling with the locations of the images/templates and it seems to have fixed the problem. Not sure why that was happening. JML1148 (talk | contribs) 08:06, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Why is my new Draft is being rejected?

Please tell me what is wrong there? Abhidev06 (talk) 13:07, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Abhidev06, and welcome to the Teahouse. A quick glance at your article shows that the article does not meet notability guidelines, and relies heavily on the channel's page on YouTube, considered a self-published source or even a user-generated source. Please replace these with reliable sources that back up the article/group's notability, if possible.

Also, please do not submit an draft for review straight after it has been declined; look at the reviewer's feedback and improve the article first, before resubmitting. ContributeToTheWiki (talk • contribs) 13:30, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Just to add onto this comment, repeatedly submitting a draft for review without addressing the concerns of the reviewer often means that your draft will be rejected, meaning you have no option to resubmit. JML1148 (talk | contribs) 08:10, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Help Collab?

Hi, is any one interested in joining me in the Collab work as per: see here. All I need is help in adding up the images on the Wikipedia page or adding up the description and structured data on Wikimedia. 456legend(talk) 07:55, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

I am requesting for help only since it's a tiresome job and not because I am not aware of how to execute these tasks. We can share the tasks and execute them in a faster manner if possible. 456legend(talk) 07:58, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

This forum isn't intended to request assistance with a task- the more general Help Desk would be better suited for that. 331dot (talk) 08:56, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Problem with creating a Wikipedia page for a festival.

Hey! I'm trying to create a Wikipedia page for a Hungarian festival. I am a member of the marketing team of the festival, and they entrusted me to create the page for the festival. I've created the page but I can't find any button, or anything to publish the article. Can anyone help me? I tried it in sandbox and in the editor page of my profile, but there is no opportunity to publish. Please help me it's kind of urgent... Varnaimarci (talk) 08:48, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Varnaimarci, you seem to be under the impression that English-language Wikipedia wants to help marketing efforts. It does not. (Hungarian-language Wikipedia probably doesn't either.) Please read Wikipedia:When your boss tells you to edit Wikipedia. (Of course the others in your team aren't your boss, but they might as well be.) -- Hoary (talk) 09:35, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

MS Office

what id the differences between ms office bind and ms office online licence 117.209.97.77 (talk) 05:27, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Welcome to a page where people can ask questions about using Wikipedia. -- Hoary (talk) 05:30, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello, this is a page for asking questions about editing Wikipedia. You will need to do your own research to answer your question. JML1148 (talk | contribs) 07:43, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

You might find somebody who can help you at the Wikipedia Reference Desk - either the Computing section or the Miscellaneous section. ColinFine (talk) 09:45, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Defunct Companies - Can they stay in the Company section of a navbox or not?

I've noticed someone has moved an article for a company which went defunct in 2019, from the company section of a navbox, to the miscellaneous section of a navbox, where it looks out of place next to crime, history, military, timeline, and geology.

Can I move it back to the company section? Danstarr69 (talk) 09:49, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

This is the navbox I'm talking about Template:City of Bradford.

This is the company I'm talking about Greenwoods. Danstarr69 (talk) 10:15, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

I've reverted it. There are other defunct companies in the companies section. Moving one doesn't make much sense unless all are moved. The best option is to create a defunct companies group in the template. - X201 (talk) 10:32, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Wondering If Decline Is Due To Name of Brand

Hi Community,

I've been working on a book about bourbon and realized the man and brand that had great influence on the spread of the name "bourbon" in relation to whisky did not have a profile on Wikipedia. I discovered the brand while at the Oscar Getz Whisky Museum in Bardstown. It's name "Chicken Cock" with a rooster on the bottle grabbed my attention. As I released its founder James A. Miller, I realized his distillery in 1856 was called "The Bourbon Distillery" because it was one of just a couple in Bourbon County.

I wrote an incredibly through history of the man and the bourbon using much of the research for my book. There are 50 citations in the article from the most unimpeachable sources I can find.

It was almost instantly declined for lack of secondary sources. But I'm wondering if it has more to do with the name of the brand "Chicken Cock?"

I've reached out to the modern brand who brought it back and asked them to review my notes and asked them if they would consider doing a rewrite of their history so I could use them as a stronger source. They are currently rebuilding their website and will include it.

But still, this was a lot of work for a whisky brand with a legacy older than Old Forester, Jack Daniels, Four Roses, Wild Turkey, and most others. It's contemporary would be Old Crow, which does have an article. It can't be because the brand is too little known - E. G. Booz has a Wikipedia entry (that only had one secondary source that was actually incorrect on its history). Again, all I can think is this is being declined because of the name or because I am too new to the editing and writing business. But my mission is to get whisky history right. Too much of it is based on oral tradition that has been rehashed, misleading people on the true history of these spirits.

Any help would be appreciated. Here is the draft:

Draft:Chicken Cock Whiskey

With respect,

Drew Whiskeylore (talk) 17:22, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Pinging BuySomeApples, the reviewer of the article, so that they can comment. Tollens (talk) 17:25, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. Whiskeylore (talk) 17:27, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

• I'm inclined to say that draft should be approved. Sources don't become primary just because they're old. A newspaper, especially one that still prints, doesn't become not-a-newspaper. GMG^talk 17:45, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

@Whiskeylore: There is nothing wrong with the brand name, especially because Wikipedia is not censored. Your draft was declined for the reasons given in the decline notice and the comments. There is a lot of information in there that appears to be uncited (and I just removed one instance of speculation from the draft). Anything based on your personal knowledge should be removed. You can cite a source multiple times if needed, see WP:NAMEDREF for guidance on how to do this without duplicating the citations in the reference list.

I also suggest minor reformatting. Punctuation goes before the citation, not after. We also don't use title case in headings unless it's a proper noun (and I just fixed these for you). ~Anachronist (talk) 17:57, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for that. I did try my best to stay with cited facts, but that is why I hire an editor when I write books, a second set of eyes can make a huge difference. And thanks for the fixes on punctuation. I will keep that in mind. Whiskeylore (talk) 18:39, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

• Pinging BarrelProof with whom I've worked on these types of subjects. GMG^talk 18:01, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

@Whiskeylore, GreenMeansGo, and Anachronist: Hi! I'm the original reviewer. The main reason I declined the draft is because there's a lot of uncited content, and the part about the modern brand is especially weak. It's not clear exactly how the modern brand is connected to the old whiskey company after a 50 year gap (Is it just the name or other stuff like recipes?). If it was just the historic company I'd probably approve it (and just remove the uncited stuff) but it's also a modern business that may or may not be the same entity, and may or may not be notable. The name is fine! It's funny and Wikipedia is uncensored anyway. BuySomeApples (talk) 19:25, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Beautiful. That was just what I needed. I was thinking of the volume of cited information, rather than the idea I bridged my own knowledge of the industry to flow between cited materials.

As for the relationship to the new brand, it would be similar to these examples:

Dunville & Co - The Dunville brand was brought back by Echlinville Distillery which is unrelated to the original Royal Irish Distillers which went out of business in the 30's.

J. T. S. Brown - The name has been owned by the Brown family and several other companies as a distillery but not always as a whiskey before being acquired by Heaven Hill brands.

Like Dunville's, the new Chicken Cock bottle is somewhat of a replica of the original bottle. It's an interesting part of the story. If I could suggest it, maybe take the relationship to the new brand out of the lead and leave the paragraph on the modern version. Then take the new releases out completely? That way people who find this article because they've seen it in a store will know the relationship.

Let me know and I can clean that up and take my bridge material out.

Thanks for the clarification and working with me on this. As a bourbon researcher, I believe this story is the beginning of a reinvestigation of the true history of bourbon. There is a lot of lore and marketing out there that doesn't help us get to the truth.

Cheers,

Drew Whiskeylore (talk) 23:48, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

@Whiskeylore: The lead section should summarize what's in the body text. If you included information about the new brand in the body, then it should be mentioned in the lead, but you could omit the implication that they are related.

And certainly remove anything based on personal knowledge. I used to have this problem when I was contributing heavily to wine articles. There is a lot of knowledge winemakers have that isn't published, but it's verifiable in the sense that anyone can visit a well-known winemaker such as Mike Grgich and ask him a question and get the same answer as anyone else asking the same question. But still, it's unpublished personal knowledge that I couldn't use. ~Anachronist (talk) 05:44, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Excellent, thanks for that. Whisky is such a tricky category to document, because common knowledge is usually just marketing lore or real lore - guessing wine has a lot of the same issues. I've been shocked by how many writers of books fall into the trap of using this information without deeper research and fable becomes fact. My dad always said, get two sources, but I've seen where 2 sources are both mislead by the same source. Tough for getting to real history. Whiskeylore (talk) 13:17, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

We have an article about Fighting Cock (bourbon), another whiskey produced in the same small town, so it isn't a matter of the name. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 07:46, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Corinne Botz

I wrote my first submission, on the female visual artist Corinne Botz. I thought I submitted it April 10. On May 21 I went back, and, not sure that it was submitted correctly, resubmitted it using AfC-submit-wizard. I have tried searching pending articles by name, and by submit date. I have tried searching Declined articles, both by searching for the string "Botz" and by scanning the list. What else can I do? N2sx1z (talk) 12:59, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Corinne May Botz is here; it is still awaiting review. Lectonar (talk) 13:08, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi, N2sx1z and welcome to the Teahouse. You can always check out your edit history by clicking on the link labelled "Contributions". You might have to click on "..." to see more options first. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 13:15, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Alternatively, if you're using a Windows computer you can press Alt+⇧ Shift+Y to access your own contributions. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 13:27, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Picture

Can I use this picture because it’s basic.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Iwao-Ojima/publication/6461105/figure/fig3/AS:601640952410112@1520453789077/Fig-5-Chemical-structure-of-viriditoxin.png Pediatricloser (talk) 01:57, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Pediatricloser, I think you are asking whether it's copyrightable. (If it isn't, then, perhaps stripped of its caption, it could be uploaded to Commons, with an appropriate PD template.) The place to ask is c:Commons:Village_pump/Copyright. -- Hoary (talk) 02:42, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

@Pediatricloser That .png image has just been uploaded to Commons by Mitch199811. However, per MOS:CSDG, we prefer .svg file types. The current image is also lacking stereochemistry details (see its Chemspider entry). In a moment I'll create the .svg and upload it to Commons for use in Draft:Viriditoxin. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:21, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Is "End Fossil: Occupy!" notable?

End Fossil Occupy is a budding climate change activism movement with chapters in Africa and Europe. They are quite small compared to other political entities. They are notable for being a political group and occupying buildings. their website: https://endfossil.com/

english third-party sources: >

dutch language sources:

i assume there must be sources in French, Italian, Portuguese and other languages. Bart Terpstra (talk) 14:54, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to the Teahouse! You can read more about the notability guidelines for organizations here. My main concern based on the sources you've provided here is that none of them seem to be about End Fossil Occupy as a whole. There's good coverage of EFO Uganda and of EFO Utrecht, but not really anything about EFO itself. Note that I'm not an expert at the notability policy so I could be talking nonsense. WPscatter ^t/_c 15:18, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm too new to have good instinct on notability, so i post to teahouse if i know the topic is new, your input is appreciated.

if i only find sources of local chapters, would that be sufficient to characterise the whole?

("but professor, where is the university?") Bart Terpstra (talk) 15:32, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

References

Dr. Elena Rios

Hi fellow Wikipedians,

I wondered if I could create a Wikipedia article on Dr. Elena Rios. Overall, I just wanted to know if she is notable enough for me to make a Wikipedia page on her.

Here is just a random bib I found on her, and kinda made me realize she is rather important in the hispanic community in D.C.: https://cfmedicine.nlm.nih.gov/physicians/biography_270.html

This is just me looking for another article I could potentially tackle, but please let me know if it could be made into a wikipedia page.

best,

-MMM MedicalMrMoose (talk) 14:50, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi @MedicalMrMoose: notability depends, by and large, on the sources you can find. If there are multiple independent and reliable secondary sources providing significant coverage of her, then she probably is notable; otherwise probably not. (That one primary source you've linked to doesn't really tell us much.) Alternatively, she could be notable if she meets any of the criteria in a special notability guideline, possibly in her case WP:NPROF, but again we would need to see reliable sources to corroborate any such claim. HTH, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 15:05, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

I read the whole of this biography on her website (warning: strong smell of puffery) and it says nothing that suggests a notability criteria (no named chair at prestigious university, no significant award, no political office, etc.). The website also has a press review section from which there does not seem to be anything usable (mostly interviews of her, not articles about her). My hunch is that she is not Wikipedia-notable. Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 16:27, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know! MedicalMrMoose (talk) 16:29, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Bradley Ogden

The page Bradley Ogden was persistently and subtly vandalized by an IP user, and I have noticed it (and reverted 2 of the edits), but I don't know the best practice for this specific situation. Could someone lend me a hand? Alpha514 (talk) 20:53, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to the Teahouse! You can always revert clear vandalism; WP:3RR does not apply in cases such as these, especially when it comes to biographies of living persons. If it persists (I would say 3 cases of vandalism in a short time span constitute persistent), you may request page protection and report the IP for vandalism. WPscatter ^t/_c 21:08, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

@Alpha514: The IP address is now blocked. ~Anachronist (talk) 21:47, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

I noticed that you didn't warn the user after reverting their edits. You don't have to go back and warn them, but it's definitely something you should keep in mind if you encounter other vandals. Capsulecap ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:37, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Two questions

1. What is the difference between {{subst:TEMPLATE}} and {{tlsubst:TEMPLATE}}? I understand why you would substitute a template onto a page instead of using a normal/"dynamic" link, but subst and tlsubst seem to do the same thing.
2. What is the purpose of the administrators' noticeboard and its subpage for incidents? What problems are handled in them?

Capsulecap ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:29, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

1. I don't think tlsubst is a thing. I just tried to use it and nothing happens. You may be thinking of {{tl}} (template link), which creates a link to the template given as the first parameter. To create a link that includes the subst:, you can use {{tls}} instead. If you're certain tlsubst actually does something I can look into it further, but I don't think I've ever seen it before.
2. The administrators' noticeboard is for general information or issues that administrators may be interested in, such as administrators asking for help from other administrators with difficult tasks, important news regarding interface changes, etc. The incidents subpage, often referred to as ANI, is for discussing conduct issues, for example a particular user consistently violating the civility policy, personal attacks, or disruptively editing in a way not covered by the vandalism policy.

Tollens (talk) 17:43, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

A-class and GA class nominations

I was just curious, but can you nominate an article that you have created yourself for an A-class or good article status?

Thanks e (talk) 19:03, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Absolutely - you can only nominate articles you have contributed significantly to. Nominations where the nominator is either the author of less than 10% of the article or ranked sixth or lower in authorship (taken from WP:GAI, you can find these stats here) are removed. Tollens (talk) 19:08, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

What about articles that have been translated from foreign wikipedias (e.g. Ottoman cruiser Lütf-ü Hümayun being a fully translated version of its Turkish counterpart)? e (talk) 19:11, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

@Browhatwhyamihere: Yep, still counts. 〜 Festucalex • talk 19:13, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

@Browhatwhyamihere: Absolutely. As a matter of fact, you must do so in order to get the Four Award. 〜 Festucalex • talk 19:09, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the answers!

Cheers e (talk) 19:15, 9 June 2023 (UTC)