User talk:CNMall41/Archive 10

Another UPE

Can you take a look at Gaurishankaar Chaubey. Obvious UPE involved. It was earlier created by a sock under the title Gaurishankar Chaubey. Thilsebatti (talk) 04:42, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

@Thilsebatti:, sorry, was offline a couple days. Looking now. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:36, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Also going to ping @Wikishovel: as it looks like the original was a sock of Amansharma111. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:39, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Looks like it is probably a sock of Amansharma111. I just filed a new SPI with the evidence. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:49, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

This was discovered in the final hours before my flight. I therefore notified DreamRimmer offline as well. Many thanks to you both. Thilsebatti (talk) 02:08, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Hotel Constance

Without going through the process for a page move (as far as I can see), you recentlly and unilaterally moved Hotel Constance to Pasadena Hotel & Pool. This article is a about a historic buiding that has been known for a century in the historic perservation world as the "Hotel Constance". The building was purchased in a bankruptucy sale in 2022, and the new owner in 2023 decided to rebrand the hotel that operates in the building as the "Pasadena Hotel & Pool". With historic buildings, we typically seek constancy (no pun intended) in the naming off the historic buildings. We don't change the name every time a new owner comes along and decides to rebrand the business. Accordingly, unless you can point to a formal move request pursuant to which you sought and gained consensus for the renaming, it is my pressent intention to revert the rename. Let me know if you disagree. Cbl62 (talk) 09:29, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

@Cbl62:, Thanks for the note. I did move it unilaterally per BOLD based on WP:UCRN. I realize that it has a long history in the historic world, but I changed it to what it is recognized as currently according to reliable sources. If you feel otherwise, you are free to move it back of course and we can seek other opinions. Is there anything you can point me to showing that consensus is normally sought for historic buildings? I'll keep in mind for the future. --CNMall41 (talk) 09:39, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

I believe there are a few others I have done over the years but need to remember which ones. If it is customary for history buildings to have consensus on name changes I will need to think back as those would need to be reverted as well. Please let me know. --CNMall41 (talk) 09:48, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

What is notable here is the historic building. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a hotel directory. In the case of a historic building, it may change corporate affiliations (Hilton, Sheraton, etc.) or branding dozens of times over the course of its existence. For example, Hotel Constance was rebranded in 2014 as the DusitD2 Constance Pasadena. Yet, we did not change the Wikipedia article name to reflect the corporate rebranding of the hostelry operating within the historic building. Hotel names are rebranded frequently, and we should not be renaming encyclopedia articles on historic buildings every few years due to changes in corporate ownership or marketing strategies.

With regard to WP:COMMONNAME, a search of Newspapers.com turns up 5,610 hits for "Hotel Constance" and zero hits for "Pasadena Hotel & Pool". Cbl62 (talk) 09:58, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

I am not sure if you mean the tone but it isn't coming across well. I have been here for a while so I know Wikipedia is not a hotel directory. I honestly don't give a crap who owns it or what they want to rebrand it as or their reasoning behind it. My view when I changed it (and if you read my replies to you above I have no issue with you changing it until we can get a consensus if needed) is that it may meet notability guidelines as a historic building, but it is notable as a hotel. I treated it as a company, not a historic building which is why I asked for clarification (which I am hoping you are still able to provide). --CNMall41 (talk) 10:05, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

It's not personal, and I did not mean it to come across that way. But I thought I did provide clarification by addressing WP:COMMONNAME. The building has been commonly known as the "Hotel Constance" for a century. One of the tools we use to evaluate common name is to see how it has been referred to in mainstream media. Newspapers.com is a useful tool to gauge this. As noted above, a search of Newspapers.com turns up 5,610 hits for "Hotel Constance" and 0 hits for "Pasadena Hotel & Pool". Cbl62 (talk) 10:15, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for addressing the tone. That is why I said I didn't know if you meant it. It just seemed like you were speaking to me as if I was the hotel owner here to change the name for my own benefit. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I am also not trying to debate or convince you that the move should stay under the current name, only trying to provide you with my thought process for the move so you know it wasn't done in jest. I saw this notable as a hotel (aka "company" for Wikipedia purposes), not a historic building so using COMMONNAME I changed it. Similar to how HBO Max was changed to Max (streaming service) (and note that discussion wasn't for a name change, it was for NOT splitting out a separate page for the new brand). That is why I was asking if there was anything you could point me to (a discussion on a noticeboard or anything) to help me in the future. As far as NEWSPAPERS.COM, of course it is going to return a ton of results as its an old hotel and it this one was just re-opened. I used Google when I searched as again, I am looking for what it is currently going to be commonly known by. Searching the new name brought up results for the new name. Searching the old name brought up results for both. Using what we normally do for companies, I changed the name to the new one. Again, that's just my reasoning so you can have a better understand of my thought process. It's Wikipedia. You don't need my agreement to do what you feel is within guidelines. --CNMall41 (talk) 10:34, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Hello

Hey there, I just wanted to drop by and thank you for all the work you're doing in maintaining the quality of Indian-film related articles, even if there are slight disagreements at times. :) It's often a losing war trying to do so, when there's so much sock-puppetry, fancruft, paid editing, and vandalism to deal with. But I highly appreciate the ones who try anyway! Krimuk2.0 (talk) 07:20, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I don't mind disagreements as I am sure there are some things I can be heavier-handed at sometimes. All about checks and balances. I know it is a losing battle, but if I can frustrate the hell out of the enemy while not disrupting Wikipedia (as they are), then its a good day. --CNMall41 (talk) 07:24, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Damn right, haha! May you emerge victorious! Krimuk2.0 (talk) 07:25, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Haha. I wish. I just want to go back to editing company pages but they keep distracting me. Now leave me alone!!!! Lol. --CNMall41 (talk) 07:27, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Change on DoorDash page

Hey there, just curious about the revision to the change on the DoorDash page from "Philanthropy" to "Public Relations". Doesn't philanthropy imply positive bias? 2603:8000:3302:9729:F5E6:11F:D790:494C (talk) 06:02, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

How so?--CNMall41 (talk) 06:03, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Philanthropy implies generous motive behind the action of giving. The giving itself, especially from a large company (in this case, DoorDash), is simply public relations. 2603:8000:3302:9729:F5E6:11F:D790:494C (talk) 06:26, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

All philanthropy conducted by companies has a public relations component (they all get recognition for doing it). However, it is still philanthropy, regardless of a company's motive. I would suggest using the talk page there to get consensus if you feel it needs changed. --CNMall41 (talk) 06:30, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, CNMall41. Thank you for your work on Zak Pelaccio. SunDawn, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Hello my friend! Good day to you. Thanks for creating the article, I have marked it as reviewed. Have a blessed day!

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|SunDawn}}. Please remember to sign your reply with ~~~~. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 04:57, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Humayun Saeed filmography

Hi. Attribution is necessary because the content you split was not created by you [and subsequently not significantly edited by others] on the main page Humayun Saeed. Thanks — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 21:10, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Nomination for Deletion for Amjed Ullah Khan

Hey there @CNMall41. This article Amjed Ullah Khan of a local politician is so badly written with original writing, bad citations and promotional paragraphs. I and few others have tried to change it and nominate it for deletion but it gets reverted by the same people who wrote the article. It was even worse before (see previous History) and is slightly better now but I fear it may be reverted to the same state in a few days.

Can you do something about it? I am not that qualified to successfully delete the article and my changes keep getting reversed. Please help.

With regards Rasalghul1711 (talk) 12:04, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

@Rasalghul1711:, it appears the original user you are referring to is now a blocked sock. Their edits also appear to have been reverted so it is not eligible for speedy deletion based on being overly promotional. If you feel it does not meet notability guidelines, you can always create an AfD discussion where editors can opine if they agree with your assessment or not. Hope that helps. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:52, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Could you please help me if you got the time Your assessment could help delete the article Rasalghul1711 (talk) 00:29, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

It is not a topic that I would be interested in jumping down the rabbit hole for. I would advice going here where you can post the request and receive feedback from more editors as opposed to just myself. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:47, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Future films

If you feel articles on future films must not be, why don't you start nominating American films for deletion? Sometimes even a film in development hell (or production hell) merits an article. Like Megalopolis, Marudhanayagam or Indian 2. Kailash29792 (talk) 07:10, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

@Kailash29792:, it is sometimes difficult to judge tone in talk page messages but this appears to be an accusation of WP:BIAS. Hope that is not the case, but would be happy to answer your question if you can clarify. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:17, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Re-listing

Is it fair to re-list an article in a deletion request just because it didn't get the votes an admin wants, as has been done here? Krimuk2.0 (talk) 11:44, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

@Krimuk2.0:, hard to know. I will say, I rarely see a WP:Supervote and don't think this is one. Sometimes an admin doesn't see strong policy arguments in their opinion so will re-list at least one time to get a clearer consensus. I am glad to see they clarified their reason for re-listing. I would say to ping them or reach out on talk and ask for clarification. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:55, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Egyptian companies established in 2020

A tag has been placed on Category:Egyptian companies established in 2020 indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. ✗plicit 12:25, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Draft Reject

Your recent contribution in Draft:Khaie has been Occurred. Can i ask you the Reason why you rejecte the Draft Article. This is Not a Contrary article under Wikipedia G5. Please review it and Move to the Main Space because the Article is Fully referenced and notable. Qae345 (talk) 08:54, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

How many times do we have to go round and round on this? See you next time!--CNMall41 (talk) 18:53, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

You left a comment on a pending Draft:Khaie , in which you say that you will come and review but you have not reviewed it now. IK804 (talk) 13:19, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Hmmm, I wonder if this could be a sock of the account that started this discussion... Ravensfire (talk) 05:09, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

@Ravensfire:, I am 100% sure it is. CU is running a little slow as there are a lot of SPIs filed. This is one of them. --CNMall41 (talk) 05:14, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

@Ravensfire:, would you believe it was confirmed one and the same? lol --CNMall41 (talk) 03:27, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

What? Never, never in a million years would I ever have suspected that. Ravensfire (talk) 04:17, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

Amar Singh (art dealer)

There are multiple Vanity Fair links on Amar Singh (art dealer) page even though Vanity Fair removed them 79.173.131.75 (talk) 09:11, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Okay. As stated in the edit summary, those references are still available through archive (check the Wayback Machine). Also, how did you know they removed them? Seems like something only someone close to the article subject would know. --CNMall41 (talk) 09:14, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Suspected sock

~~ I'm not a sock. You could investigate to draw a conclusion. Please, investigate first to revert edits made by me. 39.34.184.141 (talk) 04:11, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

SOCK, MEAT, undisclosed paid editing. Regardless, you know who you are so stop leaving messages here. It's disruptive. --CNMall41 (talk) 05:18, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Draft Article

The draft articles for Draft:The Equalizer (2021 TV series, season 1), Draft:The Equalizer (2021 TV series, season 2), Draft:The Equalizer (2021 TV series, season 3), Draft:The Equalizer (2021 TV series, season 4), Draft:CSI: Vegas (season 3), Draft:List of CSI: Vegas episodes, & Draft:FBI: Most Wanted (season 5) should be accepted by now. 86.1.199.26 (talk) 22:07, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Not sure what you are saying. Sorry. --CNMall41 (talk) 22:10, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) I'm pretty sure they are just asking for the linked drafts to be promoted to mainspace. I'll have a look. BD2412 T 23:07, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

 Done. BD2412 T 23:13, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Got it. Thanks for looking. I hate to assume anymore. --CNMall41 (talk) 00:54, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

I know what you mean. Looking over your page, I have to say you've got the patience of a saint in dealing with some of these matters. BD2412 T 01:22, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Don't check the archives. lol. It's all good, just Wikipedia I guess. Thanks for stalking. --CNMall41 (talk) 01:42, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

About no. of episodes on Chhota Bheem page

do i have to provide better source for that? becuase that website says it has 277 episodes so i put that number on that page. Also please give me insights about editing i am a newbie. Thank you so much. ZachAlexanderCarter (talk) 12:11, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

That seems to be a minor issue at this point. --CNMall41 (talk) 00:41, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

GrowUp Farms article

Hi there, I've just seen that my article on GrowUp Farms has been rejected as I've cited the company website in it - is that correct? And if that's the case, if there's information on their website that I can't find elsewhere, does that mean it needs to be removed? 77.102.15.152 (talk) 11:13, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your note on the page @CNMall41 - I thought I had replied there but it seems to have gone missing. Once I've declared COI and altered the language is it ok to resubmit? Charlotteem15 (talk) 15:42, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, I understand it is about the language and as noted in my previous message to you I plan to update the language and make changes based on the feedback given in the edit. My questions were simply trying to understand if there were additional steps I needed to take alongside editing the language, so thanks for the help. 77.102.15.152 (talk) 17:04, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

SPI

Hello CNMall41, good work on the Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Cricket Butterfly case. I also had some doubts, but I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt since they were creating clean articles. I've noticed your excellent contributions at SPI, and it seems like SPI could really use more clerks. Have you considered submitting a request for consideration? — DreamRimmer (talk) 14:28, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

@DreamRimmer:, thanks and I get what you mean. It is hard to WP:AGF but it is a requirement so sometimes it takes a while to file a report (have to give them enough rope). I also thought that clerks were admins or am I wrong? --CNMall41 (talk) 19:26, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

You don't have to be an admin to become an SPI clerk; anyone with a solid understanding of SPI can apply for the role. — DreamRimmer (talk) 03:14, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I took a look and you are correct (as you already know). Could be something worth exploring. Thanks for the heads up. --CNMall41 (talk) 22:56, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Saxon Pub has been accepted

Saxon Pub, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on its talk page. Most new articles start out as Stub-Class or Start-Class and then attain higher grades as they develop over time. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

Since you have made at least 10 edits over more than four days, you can now create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for creation if you prefer.

If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk. Once you have made at least 10 edits and had an account for at least four days, you will have the option to create articles yourself without posting a request to Articles for creation.

If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider .

Thanks again, and happy editing!

BuySomeApples (talk) 00:33, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Separate Movie soundtrack pages

There are IPs creating separate pages for movie soundtracks like these Hi Nanna (soundtrack), Jersey (soundtrack), Salaar: Part 1 – Ceasefire (soundtrack), Sita Ramam (soundtrack) and a Draft:Hanu Man (soundtrack). Should this be allowed when the movie pages of all these soundtracks already have a Music segment which lists all the needed content on soundtracks? RangersRus (talk) 13:08, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

@RangersRus:, I believe the proper link would be WP:FORK. If they qualify for pages, then it would be allowed but I would remove the intricate details of it from the main movie page. If any do NOT qualify under notability guidelines, they recommending them for deletion would be the best option. Note that WP:NALBUM #5 seems to state that soundtracks are notable if they are part of notable films. However, it also states "if this is the only claim, it is probably more appropriate to have a mention in the main article and redirect to that article" as the album must meet notability on its own and not inherent. --CNMall41 (talk) 21:51, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

@RangersRus:, some of this is definitely WP:LOUTSOCKing in my opinion. Keeping track of the breadcrumbs as it will tie together for another SPI I am working on filing shortly. --CNMall41 (talk) 00:05, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

If I come across any other similar soundtrack page that possibly could be from socks, I will bring to your attention. Cheers! RangersRus (talk) 13:59, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Blocked reason

Why You are blocking me. I say hundreds of times that I'm not a Sock puppet user. I was Just clarifying my situation on the Investigation Page. M.Nauman123 (talk) 21:57, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

I didn't block you. You are a SOCK of Nauman335 so stop playing games. GTFOH and stop leaving messages on my talk page. We've had this discussion before. Remember many months ago when you vowed to never leave?? Welcome back. --CNMall41 (talk) 21:58, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Also, if you feel I am not acting appropriately, please report me. I am always subject to sanctions just as you have been. --CNMall41 (talk) 21:59, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

I'm sorry but the Warring for blocks afraid me and my Contributions to Wikipedia, in which i work hard. M.Nauman123 (talk) 22:02, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

I don't really care. Your attempted appear to sympathy is about as much as a failure as your UPE edits. It's comical how many breadcrumbs you leave and still attempt to deny being a sock. I am done entertaining you here though. Feel free to report me but final warning to stay off my talk page. --CNMall41 (talk) 22:05, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Kavya Kishor

I want to improve this Draft, please suggest me that how can improve it? Miladitb (talk) 02:35, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

February 2024

Hi, CNMall41. Thanks for patrolling new pages. I've declined your deletion request for a page that you tagged for speedy deletion, because the criterion you used or the reason you gave does not cover this kind of page. Please take a moment to read the new tutorial for patrollers, criteria for speedy deletion, and particularly, the section covering non-criteria. Such pages are best tagged with proposed deletion or proposed deletion for biographies of living persons, or sent to the appropriate deletion discussion. Thanks! 2601:5CC:8300:A7F0:3169:7F63:F77F:3B81 (talk) 23:18, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

I'm assuming this is Nauman335 WP:LOUTSOCK. Thanks for stopping by. --CNMall41 (talk) 09:04, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

{{Undisclosed paid}}

This isn't meant to be a "badge of shame". If an article has no issues, there's no reason to keep the tag there. Elli (talk | contribs) 23:43, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I am very aware. The ones tagged are the ones that I am tired of cleaning up after UPE and SOCK editing so instead of wasting my time I simply tagged to allow someone else to do so. So the issues are prevalent as stated in the edit summaries and if an uninvolved editor decides to review and cleanup then so be it. That's the exact reason for tags. --CNMall41 (talk) 01:26, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Ah, this is fair (and I appreciate your efforts in dealing with that sort of disruption, I know it can be exhausting). It's deleted now, but I'd previously removed the tag at List of programs broadcast by Green Entertainment before you readded it (which is why I reached out here). Elli (talk | contribs) 05:59, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

I see. Sorry as I tagged quite a few and likely just assumed it was an SPA or sock removing the tag. My apologies for not looking close enough. I guess its a good reminder to slow down when frustrated. --CNMall41 (talk) 09:03, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

@Elli @CNMall41

Hi y'all, hope it's okay to join this thread with a very relevant note!

Elli, I think it was me that you reverted with that tag, which was totally fine (helped me realize I should take a break from editing instead of continuing to bang my head against the wall of a promotion-only account). Apologies if my addition of it was a misstep, I'll ask for your review of my reasoning below so I can adjust my understanding if needed :-)

==Undisclosed paid wrt (overly) active current contributors to an article?==

While there was not promotional content within that page at that moment, I placed the tag because the now-blocked user was right then actively copying content into the article from a related one that had just been AfD'd jand linking it to all their other articles. (The AfD'd article was "Green Entertainment", the one you and I crossed paths at was "List of yadada from Green Entertainment", and they had placed a link within the first directing readers to the second, so essentially trying to start "hiding" contested content in that location. Which is at least creative, in a totally terrible way.)

I explain all this not to argue (especially as it's a moot point for now) but to ask for clarification on al the assumption I made in placing that tag at that time. You are both way more experienced here than me, so I'd love your take: is the tag *only* applicable to the written content, or to the context of the current state of a page?

I had (perhaps mis)understood that if contention around undisclosed paid status was active regarding a current contributor to an article (who, as in this case, was refusing to honor other editors' requests to pause their editing and answer COI/PAID questions) then the tag was appropriate as well. Only seeing your post here made me realize that might not be the case!

==Original reason for coming here: Thanks CNMall41!==

Anyhow, I originally clicked over to this talk page to thank you, CNMall41, for bringing me into the loop about what was going on. This was my first encounter with a "sock farm" situation in action, and it kind of freaked me out- even before it was clear what was going on, the brash urgency and generic dismissal I perceived from that editor put me on edge. It felt like dealing with scammers on the phone who are trying to urge you into going along with some scheme, I probably took it a bit too personal and argued with the person a bit.

On that note, I'm vaguely aware of WP:DENY as a thing and should probably go read it in depth this week; in practical terms it basically means don't feed the trolls, and just pursue administrative solutions to the distribution once you suspect you're dealing with a sock?

Do you have any advice for situations like mine earlier today, where an editor finds behavior really suspicious but doesn't have the en.wiki-wisdom to connect it to a specific LTA account? I'm wondering if bringing it to an admin's attention would be appropriate or if you have to assume good faith a bit longer and just keep an eye out.

(In this case I'm talking not about clear vandalism or conduct issues, which I have a vague idea on how to report. Rather things like this whole mess, where someone is contributing so aggressively and single-mindedly at high volume to push things into the encyclopedia which are not appropriate, but not quite audacious.)

Thanks in advance for any advice, our brief interaction has me really looking up to you and I imagine if I learn more, I could be a good contributor in this area of protecting the encyclopedia someday. I helped run a consensus-based hackerspace for 7 years, and we had allll these same commons-based problems, just in meatspace 😅

People would secretly live there, try to run for-profit startups out of there, and basically miss the point of a community education space altogether. I was a bit of a "bouncer" socially for that space, and feel the same protective instincts towards lovely en.wiki.... I just have to learn all the important bits first in order to be effective like you are! Cheers 🙌🤠 Chiselinccc (talk) 09:09, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Lot of questions so hopefully I hit the most important ones for you. If not, just ask for clarification and I will be happy to opine. The fist is about tagging. Elli is correct that tags are NEVER to be used as badges of shame. In fact, I know of an editor who is now community banned for getting too aggressive with COI editors and this is one of the conducts they were engaged in. It is kind of a judgement call if you feel the page is promotional or has COI editing. I normally look through and if there is some promotional tone or is written from non-neutral POV (an example is a company page with a list of industry awards), then the tag would be appropriate. Of course, you should (although not required) attempt to clean it up yourself as most issues can be addressed rather quickly. In this case, I was tired of the amount of cleanup so simply tagged many and left it to other experienced editors to do so. This shouldn't be done in all cases however so it really is a judgement call based on experience. With that in mind, do not take my advise as the law as it is just what I do. Also, at this point, I am no longer required to WP:AGF with this farm as they are relentless. I will gladly face ANI for reverting their edits.

That brings me to DENY. This is also a tricky one as you are NOT required to revert SOCK edits. There are many times when I don't as they may actually improve the page or are minor housekeeping edits which are useful to Wikipedia. Sometimes I will mass revert just because of the bludgeoning they are doing. In the case of UPE, it is likely the farm is not paid unless their edits are live so reverting does cause some harm to them which I don't really care about it. In fact, I hope it does as all they need to do is disclose and we could move forward peacefully. So again, judgement call and this is just my experience.

For advice on what to do with potential socks, I would advice going to the main SPI page and looking through all of the cases. You can then follow the edit histories of the accounts named and be able to see what experienced editors see when doing their investigations. Will also help you understand the type of evidence admins and CU's will require for when you file one. There is also a talk page there so you can ask any questions if you need help.

Finally, for issues with trouble users (such as edit warring), there are noticeboards you can use including ANI and COIN. Make sure you follow proper etiquette first such as discussing with the editor, leaving appropriate warning if necessary, and engaging in any talk page discussion if applicable. --CNMall41 (talk) 09:23, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

@CNMall41 apologies for the cascade of questions, and thank you for your thorough response- you've absolutely covered the bases here! It's one thing to read a bunch of policy pages, or even to peruse noticeboards as an observer, but it's another thing to decide what to do in the midst of a stressful situation. I feel better equipped for the future with the overview you've provided.

While I didn't intend the tag as a "badge of shame," I now get that my intention of "tagging an active disruption" was still not ideal, as it just added one more element of engagement with the suspected (then confirmed) UPE. By reverting their tag removals and tagging the page they started moving their content to, I was trying to draw their attention to their talk page, and while it worked it also created a bunch of unnecessary heat and drama.

I guess the urgency I detected in the editor's flurry of content addition sparked a similar urgency in me, hence feeling freaked out. Your explanation here has helped me contextualize that the "Wikipedia has no deadline" concept applies not just to article content consensus, but to matters like this as well. I will study the SPI archives and procedures a bit more, so that I better know what to do if I'm concerned about such matters in the future.

For now, just the understanding that trying to flag disruption the wrong way becomes disruptive itself is a really useful takeaway. I purposely stay away from editing content I'm attached enough to potentially argue over, but now I see that even my passion to protect from COI/PROMO/PUFFERY can lead me to edit war, which is never okay. Assuming good faith, and then once that runs out ensuring the situation makes it to the right set of eyes, is the way to go.

Thanks again, happy editing, and I hope to see you around the way! Like a number of other experienced editors, you've really made me feel welcome and better-oriented to successfully contribute long-term 🙌 Chiselinccc (talk) 10:50, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Just remember there is never a deadline in Wikipedia. Things will always get corrected even if they are disruptive in the short term so even edit wars can be reported and then sit back and wait. I find myself getting frustrated at times as well and have to remember that this is not real life, its only Wikipedia. Cheers!!!--CNMall41 (talk) 10:54, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

@Chiselinccc: I don't have much more to say as CNMall41's answer here is pretty much what I'd go with as well. Thanks for reaching out and also for your work dealing with disruption here. Elli (talk | contribs) 12:03, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Sorry to say I'm not a SOCK

I'm not a SOCK why you are disappointing me Jishnu Raghav (talk) 06:23, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

I'm tired of politely saying this so let me put it like this. Stay the fuck off my talk page! Feel free to make your case here. --CNMall41 (talk) 06:25, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Seriously I'm not SOCK you had added me in the SOCK list Jishnu Raghav (talk) 06:27, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Yah I can understand that around 10-11 sock users had attempted to create that article I had that link which you had provided. So, I cannot say that u cannot suspect me. But I'm an Innocent moreover that is, not my Favourite article please. Jishnu Raghav (talk) 06:32, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

You created your account the same day another one was blocked. Last warning. Stay the fuck off my talk page. --CNMall41 (talk) 06:33, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Whatever still u r not believe me anyways it's ok but mind your tongue. Jishnu Raghav (talk) 06:36, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

How about, stay the fuck off my talk page and you won't have to worry about my tongue. --CNMall41 (talk) 06:38, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

COI

Hai, it's not siddharth , it's not related to assume it's coi, iam not siddharth menon , iam siddharth shankar Siddharthmenon2121 (talk) 07:06, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Lol. Then address the MANY warnings on your talk page and stay off of mine. --CNMall41 (talk) 07:09, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Suno Chanda 2

Hello, CNMall41,

Just a reminder that it might be time for you to review WP:DRAFTIFY to see when it is appropriate to move a main space article to Draft space. This option is for recently created articles and this article was created in 2018 so definitely not recently created. Additionally, an article should only be moved to Draft space once. If another editor moves it back to main space then it is time to find other solutions like improving the article, tagging it for problems or pursuing another deletion process. Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:54, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I had in fact responded to this earlier. I am very familiar with the policy. Was done in a rush. Mistakes happen and this was one of them but definitely not a competency issue. --CNMall41 (talk) 10:21, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

GrowUp page draft

Hi there, Thanks for your feedback on the draft. I have thoroughly reviewed the comments from the previous editors and so did more than remove the link to the company website before resubmitting. I removed the information sourced from the company website rather than simply removing the reference (although in some places it refers to facts like dates, so have kept those in as per the referencing guidelines). I also double-checked my sources, removed any duplicates, and took out anything that linked to press releases. The sources that remain are all industry-specific, neutral, non-company-related news publications like The Grocer, iNews, and the BBC. Furthermore, I have made the relevant declaration of COI.

Please could I have some further information about what's wrong with the sources included so I can make further adjustments? Given the subject matter it's not possible to cite from academic journals and I haven't seen anything to suggest news articles aren't acceptable if they're from reputable sources, but I know there are lots of intricacies I might not be aware of. Thanks for your help. Charlotteem15 (talk) 17:56, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

The first place to start for referencing would be WP:ORGCRIT. As this would be considered a page for a company, the sourcing required would fall under that guideline. If you compare the references listed to the guidelines, you will see that many are just routine announcements or come from industry publications.--CNMall41 (talk) 18:07, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

how to request for company page creation

i am seeking an help to request a company page creation for SYSOTEL.AI

can you please guide me how do i do it.

if you need any specific format for the company page creation let me know so i can give you the details as required

References

https://hospitality.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/hotels/sysotel-ais-first-customer-turns-into-an-investor-in-the-company/103691140

https://www.outlooktraveller.com/explore/ravel-style/sysotelai-hospitalitys-pathbreaking-platform

https://hospitality.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/hotels/how-technology-is-making-your-hotel-better/100845258

https://www.outlooktraveller.com/explore/insider/outlook-traveller-hospitality-awards-2023

https://bwhotelier.businessworld.in/article/SYSOTEL-AI-appoints-Manali-Jadhav-as-Regional-Head-/09-05-2023-475927/

https://hospitality.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/operations/technology/sysotel-ais-ambitious-expansion-across-india-calls-for-elite-leadership-team/100480589

https://hospitality.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/operations/technology/sysotel-ai-appoints-indira-neogi-as-regional-head-biz-dev-east-zone/102131916

https://theprint.in/ani-press-releases/sysotel-becomes-official-partner-of-google-hotels-enhances-visibility-and-website-traffic-for-partner-hotels-free-of-charge/744757/

https://www.business-standard.com/content/press-releases-ani/new-age-tech-solution-phenomena-ambassador-sysotel-121052400899_1.html Imrajsahu (talk) 05:37, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

I honestly would not be interested in assisting. Been around too long to know that this is likely UPE and at least COI. --CNMall41 (talk) 06:33, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Help With Article

You had placed pictures on the article Ito Ranch and due to my conflict I am asking that you update the article with more that I have uploaded. For the box at the top, can you replace the current picture with this one? https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ItoRanch-Farm-SkyView-2023.png

• Can you add this one to the history section:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ItoRanch-Farm-1949.jpg

• Can either of these be added to the breeding section:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ItoRanch-Cows-1956.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ItoRanch-Cows-2023.png

• And for the tenderloin section:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ItoRanch-TenderloinStamps.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ItoRanch-TenderloinCuts.jpg

• License section:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ItoRanch-AuthenticitySticker.jpg I am not sure if I can add these myself so I am asking you. If I am allowed to just say something to me and I can do it. Thank you for your help. SPERR1E5 (talk) 21:29, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

@SPERR1E5:, I will take a look. However, it is always best to place COI requests on the talk pages and use the correct edit request template. This way editors are able to see them. --CNMall41 (talk) 22:38, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

These were pretty simple. Although there was not enough room for all. Images must be placed in the context of information in the body. Also, if you have not already, I would suggest emailing permission to Wikimedia Commons on how you own these files. I see you claimed them as your own work but they will need information on how you own them so they are not deleted. --CNMall41 (talk) 22:46, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

This is an updated version of his accurate album information. don't delete

This is an updated version of his accurate album information. don't delete Hellojiming (talk) 09:03, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Tyler Morse (March 13)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Randompersonediting was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Tyler Morse and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

K-Pop contributor (✍️•📚) 03:48, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Hello, CNMall41! Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! K-Pop contributor (✍️•📚) 03:48, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, Randompersonediting. Can I get your feedback on references 1, 2, and 4?--CNMall41 (talk) 17:40, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

They are reliable , the subject isn,t notable yet to be in main space with those many references K-Pop contributor (✍️•📚) 02:10, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

@Randompersonediting:, not to sound contentious but I am hoping you can provide some additional clarification. You already stated the subject was not notable. I am asking "how." Notability comes from significant coverage in reliable sources. You stated the sources are reliable. I submitted this as I was on the fence or would have moved it to mainspace myself (which I will do shortly anyway), but since submission another in-depth source was added. So, since the sources are reliable, do you not consider the coverage significant? --CNMall41 (talk) 04:01, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Will Tschetter

I still have not even looked at his college career. I was going to get to it. I would have left it in the Draft space until I studied his college, which may not be much, but I still would have waited.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:31, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Looks good. I think it may be a little overly detailed in the high school career but didn't look too deep. Since it met notability guidelines I simply moved it to mainspace and figured you could do any additional work you felt it needed. Cheers!!--CNMall41 (talk) 21:33, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Stacii Jae Johnson (March 14)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Randompersonediting was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Stacii Jae Johnson and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

K-Pop contributor (✍️•📚) 03:19, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Source reliability?

If a source from reliable news media says that the boxoffice numbers are so and so as announced by makers, will this still be reliable? I think it is not, because the numbers should be from source independent of what the makers or producers say. Right? RangersRus (talk) 12:59, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

That is a great question. Maybe one for the noticeboard. Currently, I simply remove it when someone updates it contrary to what the source says. I have not analyzed it beyond that. --CNMall41 (talk) 15:56, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) @RangersRus, whether it is reliable or not depends on whether it's part of a press release, which can be determined by checking any disclaimer or the author of the news article. If it was published by the desk team without any specific author, it's deemed a press release and therefore an unreliable source. However, if it was authored by someone specific, then it can be considered usable. – DreamRimmer (talk) 16:09, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Not to assume, but I believe WP:NEWSORGINDIA would apply to some of these based on your statement. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:19, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

@DreamRimmer @CNMall41 The makers are known to fluctuate the numbers. If you see this source [1], it says that "In a recent social media update, Maddock Films, the banner behind Teri Baaton Mein Aisa Uljha Jiya, shared the latest earnings of the movie, both globally and domestically. Accompanied by a striking poster featuring Shahid and Kriti, the update revealed that the film has grossed Rs 140.73 crore worldwide and Rs 83.28 crore nett in India after being screened for 24 days." An editor on talk page [2] said to add this source and update the boxoffice numbers. I did change it after a quick glance at the source but when I read where the numbers came from (the makers themselves), I had doubt if this is even reliable. What say you? RangersRus (talk) 17:36, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

To reiterate, I have no opinion on the reliability of the sources. I am basically doing gnoming edits so if there is a number different than the source I know it is likely added as vandalism or by someone with a COI (likely the latter) so I remove. I would defer to DreamRimmer on that. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:40, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Track listing

If I see a track list on a movie page, should I remove it? I saw it here Ae_Watan_Mere_Watan#Soundtrack. Should I remove it even if there is no soundtrack page for the film? I will try to take some burden off of you. RangersRus (talk) 12:42, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

@RangersRus:, I cannot advise exactly what you should do. I have been removing track listings as they are WP:COAT in my opinion and the information boxes should go on a page for the soundtrack, not the film. --CNMall41 (talk) 05:28, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Concern regarding User:Latevidyasagar047/sandbox

Hello, CNMall41. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that User:Latevidyasagar047/sandbox, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 17:05, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Additional source information

I'm sorry I didn't provide sufficient 'sources' to enable you to 'pass' my new article for Prof. Dr Haselhoff!

Although I'm assuming that the section you didn't feel met the required standards was headed 'Award of the Goethe Medal for Art and Science' - could you please confirm if this is the case so I at least know exactly what section I need to work on?

I have made some amendments to this section citing a book which confirms that Hasehoff was awarded the 'Goethe medal' in 1942 and also cited a Wikipedia page on the 'Goethe Medal for Art and Science' which lists Prof. Dr Haselhoff as an awardee in 1942 - you may notice that of the 66 people who received the award in 1942, Haselhoff is the ONLY ONE who doesn't currently have a Wikipedia page!

At this stage, I have left in the word-for-word quote from a newspaper cutting in my possession which announced the award of the Goethe medal to Haselhoff in 1942 - if this is not acceptable to you, please let me know and I'll delete it in it's entirety but hopefully, you will allow this on the basis that I have provided acceptable sources confirming that the award was actually made to him in 1942!

Happymike1 (talk) 13:51, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

@Happymike1:, I think the notes from editors are pretty self-explanatory. Have you read the links provided? I would start there and make sure everything is sourced and replace any sources that may not be reliable. I also don't believe any editor would see the long quote as appropriate. --CNMall41 (talk) 05:31, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Yuva edits

Hi, I have a question on the Yuva film edits. I added the soundtrack section with a source during my second edit, but it was undone because it's waiting on "consensus"? Genuinely confused what this meant since I had added a valid source in my second attempt. I'm not interested in edit warring so I figured I'd ask you to clear any of my misunderstandings. Thanks! Shrev64 (talk) 17:13, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

If you look at the edit history, this was removed several times because it is considered WP:COAT. Listing information about the soundtrack would be acceptable as long as it is from a reliable (not commercial) source. However, the information box and track listings is still COAT and should be placed in its own article if it meets notability guidelines. Edit summaries are listed in the edit history. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:45, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for pointing me to WP:COAT. I am aware of the edit summaries, hence my question. I am even more confused by the reasoning because I did include a source - the JioSaavn album page. In addition, almost all Indian film pages have their soundtracks on the same page as the film, unless they were pan-Indian (i.e. multiple-language) releases. Examples of pan-Indian films with separate soundtrack pages include Kantara, Yuvarathnaa, and Pushpa - these are the exceptions. If you see any of the pages on this page, for example, you'll see that the soundtrack section has always been on the same page. So I fail to see how COAT is relevant in this case because as someone who has been editing Indian film pages for quite a while, I have seen no precedent to this, unless it was established recently. Shrev64 (talk) 05:59, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

You are using an argument from authority and WP:OSE. You may also want to have a look at this page you provided as not all of the soundtracks are as you say. I may be wrong about it (I will admit I have been wrong in the past) so brought it up in a discussion here so it can be revisited. If I am wrong, I will gladly stop removing them. You are more than welcome to participate in that discussion of course as the more people who opine, the clearer the consensus will be. Cheers!

Can you make the box office changes for Salaar in all the linked pages

Here are the list of pages linked to Salaar

1. List of highest-grossing Indian films: [3]

2. List of Indian films of 2023: [4]

3. List of highest-grossing South Indian films: [5]

4. List of highest-grossing Telugu films: [6]

5. List of Telugu films of 2023: [7] Uzumaki787 (talk) 06:36, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

I would not be inclined to do so. You can make such request at the task force page where it was originally brought up for discussion though. --CNMall41 (talk) 06:39, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Yeah sure will approach taskforce. But some guy called Wayfarer is reverting your edits and doing some disruptive editings, please look at this [8] Uzumaki787 (talk) 06:58, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Re: Lolla line-ups

Hi there! Just in case you did not get the alert for my reply. Thank you for acknowledging hahaha. I planned to do the US lineup once the set times are available, but if you wanna do it, that's perfectly fine. Thank you sm and have a nice day! Androptrnt (talk) 04:01, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

@Androptrnt:, didn't get your ping so thanks for the message. I think you make a good point as I know of at least one artist that was just announced who isn't listed in the official lineup. Probably best to wait until that is available. Cheers and good job on the rest!!--CNMall41 (talk) 22:29, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Disruptive editing

You please refrain from disruptive editing and creating repeated drafts daily 3 drafts you will create on same article? It is very strange and amusing. Do not message me. YOU WANT THIS ARTICLE TO BE CREATED OR NOT IN THE FIRST PLACE? THE RELEASE DATE IS APRIL 4 WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM? Zolgensma (talk) 04:52, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Jfc go away. Next time will go right to ANI. I don't have time for your nonsense. --CNMall41 (talk) 04:54, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

I am saying I have already added updated references in the article and why cant you see ? dont tell me no sources in article, If no sources I am here to give you. Nonsense is you.Zolgensma (talk) 04:55, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Go to the talk page. Make your case for creation. Do not come to my talk page again. Next stop is ANI. --CNMall41 (talk) 04:57, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

I have already mentioned my case in talk page, you did not reply to me there. Thanks Zolgensma (talk) 04:58, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Great. Now you need to get consensus from other editors. Leave me the hell alone. Sick of this already. STAY OFF MY TALK PAGE!--CNMall41 (talk) 04:59, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Sources on fixed gear free style

In the history section I cited sources from library of congress, news articles, and other wiki pages. The youtube videos i tried to keep just for the trick discussion area since videos explain that better. I can add more citations to the history section but i figured it may be overkill and not add any clarity. FixedGearFreeStyle (talk) 17:41, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

You need secondary reliable sources. See WP:RS. Also, Wikipedia pages cannot be used as a reference for other Wikipedia pages unfortunately. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:44, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Ok thanks. I added more reporting citations on the topic and resubmitted. FixedGearFreeStyle (talk) 18:37, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

I took a quick look but it appears that you are still using YouTube as a source. Other references do not appear to be reliable. I will leave it up to another reviewer for a second opinion as I would likely decline it as written. --CNMall41 (talk) 21:26, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

my first 13 citations are not youtube videos. I cited New York Times article, Libary of congress, US patent office...are these not showing up? FixedGearFreeStyle (talk) 21:36, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

I am either not explaining it correctly or you are not understanding correctly. Regardless, I think we are at an impasse. The draft is still full of unacceptable sources. I will leave for another editor to review. --CNMall41 (talk) 21:39, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

If the article contains engough acceptable sources but one youtube video is the whole article considered unacceptable? FixedGearFreeStyle (talk) 21:46, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Moved youtube links to "external links section". Now there there should be no youtube in main referances FixedGearFreeStyle (talk) 22:11, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

I understand, but this wouldn't be appropriate either per WP:EL. Again, it has been left so another editor can review. --CNMall41 (talk) 23:58, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Nate Martin

First two sentences say the same thing. Can you combine them to read “Martin was recruited by Microsoft early in his career and also worked as a software executive for Electronic Arts before founding Puzzle Break, the first escape room company in the United States, in 2013.” MattWrites37 (talk) 21:20, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

I implemented the changes. Although, any additional requests you have I would ask you go through the proper talk page channels. This also allows other editors to review changes since not everyone is always online.--CNMall41 (talk) 21:25, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

New Pages Patrol newsletter April 2024

Hello CNMall41,

New Page Review queue January to March 2024

Backlog update: The October drive reduced the article backlog from 11,626 to 7,609 and the redirect backlog from 16,985 to 6,431! Congratulations to Schminnte, who led with over 2,300 points.

Following that, New Page Patrol organized another backlog drive for articles in January 2024. The January drive started with 13,650 articles and reduced the backlog to 7,430 articles. Congratulations to JTtheOG, who achieved first place with 1,340 points in this drive.

Looking at the graph, it seems like backlog drives are one of the only things keeping the backlog under control. Another backlog drive is being planned for May. Feel free to participate in the May backlog drive planning discussion.

It's worth noting that both queues are gradually increasing again and are nearing 14,034 articles and 22,540 redirects. We encourage you to keep contributing, even if it's just a single patrol per day. Your support is greatly appreciated!

2023 Awards

Onel5969 won the 2023 cup with 17,761 article reviews last year - that's an average of nearly 50/day. There was one Platinum Award (10,000+ reviews), 2 Gold Awards (5000+ reviews), 6 Silver (2000+), 8 Bronze (1000+), 30 Iron (360+) and 70 more for the 100+ barnstar. Hey man im josh led on redirect reviews by clearing 36,175 of them. For the full details, see the Awards page and the Hall of Fame. Congratulations everyone for their efforts in reviewing!

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:27, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Edits on Ryze Trampoline Parks

You removed edits and said it was less than neutral. I am pointing out reported injuries that occurred there. In fact, the page has nothing on injuries and I think the page is the one being biased right now because injuries is a huge issue for all trampoline parks but maybe more so at Ryze and Sky Zone (parent company). If you believe the edits can be more neutral, I think you should edit it rather than removing it completely, otherwise it would seem you are working for the company and out to remove objective news about injuries? Theporkypaladin (talk) 09:35, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

@Theporkypaladin:, saying that I work for the company is a pretty strong accusation which is going to get you nowhere. As I pointed out, you are welcome pursuant to WP:ONUS to discuss on the talk pages of those companies where I will gladly discuss. Wikipedia is also a collaborative environment where everyone has an opportunity to opine so hopefully you are able to get WP:CONSENSUS for the edits. In the meantime, be careful with your accusations as if you cast aspersions again it will be brought up at WP:ANI. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:01, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

If you claim to be neutral, as all of us claim to be, why would you remove my edits wholesale with reputable sources quoted and said I am not neutral? I am trying to present a fuller picture of injuries that's occurring around the world, and currently there is no mention of injuries happening in UK and Hong Kong. If you think the tone has an issue, you are welcome to factually edit my writing. By removing it wholesale and then claiming I am not neutral, when I have reputable quoted sources, really makes anyone question who is truly neutral here, and why would you want remove mentions of serious injuries around the world? You seem like really experienced in Wikipedia and trying to use all these technical stuff WP:CONSENSUS etc on me I don't even know how it works. All I know is I pointed out facts through reputable media, and I am surprised you want to remove it wholesale and then claiming I am not neutral. I would like you to invite you to edit my writing if you think its biased, but otherwise with reputable sources like South China Morning Post, you cannot say what I added is wrong or untruthful. In fact I am helping to complete the picture. 112.199.140.44 (talk) 06:40, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

You were provided with the links to guide you but I see that didn't work out. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:27, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi

Hi, an article has been moved to draft with the name Manase Osei Adinkrah.Please the draft name should be AMG Skratch.That is the article's name Nana Adinkrah (talk) 07:59, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

@Nana Adinkrah:, whoever reviews it will create it under the AKA if appropriate, assuming it meets notability guidelines. Cheers!

Dear

Dear I have edited film Rajkumar in a proper way which includes who are the artists and what its about. I hope this time you will approve it.112.199.140.44 (talk) 12:59, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

At this point it looks like you are using multiple accounts and WP:LOUTSOCKing. Will file an SPI shortly but in the meantime I would have no interest in assisting. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:03, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

My first Article

Dear I have written the article for LI-MA - Living Media Art. The name of my draft was changed to just Living Media Art. I wanted to check if that is just temporary? Or if that will be the publishing name?

The name of the institute however is LI-MA which is why it would be very relevant that the article is actually called that. Otherwise people might not find it.

Thanks! Antoniattn (talk) 12:33, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

The note at the top of the draft already addresses this. Assuming it is notable, the reviewer will determine its common name used in the media and move it to that title. Cheers. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:02, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Rashmika Mandanna information about box office

Please provide a justified explanation as to why the topic cannot be mentioned like in the articles for Ranbir Kapoor, Kartik Aaryan, Deepika Padukone and Alia Bhatt? 19Arham (talk) 17:31, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

You will need to explain what exactly you want mentioned. I am unsure what those pages have to do with this one. I have been slowly going through and cleaning things up so have made quite a few edits over the last day or two. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:31, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Information about the box-office of Rashmika's films in the career section. In all FA class articles that information is mentioned. 19Arham (talk) 20:46, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

I responded on the talk page where it should be. Not sure when this became a FA. --CNMall41 (talk) 23:47, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Draft of Ariel Elkin

Hi CNMall41,

You recently declined my draft for an article about Areil Elkin, and I'd like to see how I can improve the article so it gets approved.

The note you left me says 'This submission's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article—that is, they do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject"- but I believe they do - there is a newspaper article that is explicitly about Elkin and his actions after placing 3rd - the Times of Israel is published, reliable and secondary. There is also an in depth interview that is exclusively with Elkin from Kartcom, another published, reliable and secondary. source, What else should I do? Is it adding more of these source?

I modeled this article on another F4 racer's article Tina Hausmann, whcih uses very similar sources - is it just a matter of adding more of them?

Any guidance would be appreciated Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 20:31, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the draft creation. It looks good but still needs to show how the subject is notable. In order to do so, there needs to be WP:SIGCOV as part of WP:GNG. The only article that would come close would be the one from Times of Israel and that looks more like promotion than independent coverage. The rest are general announcements, interviews, or race stats. For Tina Hausmann, I would not suggest using another Wikipedia as a standard for notability. Maybe for the layout and manual of style but WP:OSE specifically states that another page existing does not make something similar notable. It looks like the page for Hausmann may also be non-notable as it was previously deleted, just recently re-created, and the sourcing also does not appear to be significant coverage. Hope this helps. --CNMall41 (talk) 23:52, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for this. I am puzzled by "the one from Times of Israel and that looks more like promotion than independent coverage."- it is straightforward news coverage of an event, by an independent journalist working for a mainstream news outlet. Am I missing something? Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 01:42, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Who is the journalist? It was WP:ROUTINE news coverage and part of WP:CHURNALISM coverage also found here and here. One article states they took the information from the subject's social media account so there is nothing that shows editorial oversight. I believe the reference would be discounted heavily in a deletion discussion. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:53, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

The article is bylined 'TOI Staff - i think this is quite common in newspaper coverage, see for example this for the Wall Street Journal [https://www.wsj.com/tech/personal-tech/whats-ahead-for-work-1e26f40c] or this from the Washington Post [https://www.washingtonpost.com/style/media/2023/12/07/washington-post-staff-walkout-strike-labor/]

I don't see how this would be routine coverage , which is "routine news coverage of such things as announcements...Wedding announcements, sports scores, crime logs, and other items that tend to get an exemption from newsworthiness discussions should be considered routine." if the story was simply a report of the race results it would qualify as "routine" - but in this case there is a non-routine news story - a podium winner that chose not to follow protocol despite being asked to, and instead of raising his trophy, raised a helmet as a way to create awareness for hostages,

I can't comment on the other articles you found, and I don't really see what they have to do with my draft, as I did not use them, Surely you are not suggesting the Times of Israel has no editorial oversight? https://www.timesofisrael.com/about/ Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 01:45, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Benjamin Freidenberg

Hi, I resubmitted the draft since i believe this is a mistake, please see all sources and I can add more in Hebrew. Thanks Li-reg (talk) 20:36, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

I am not sure exactly what you mean by mistake but resubmission without discussion is never a good idea. I will leave a note for reviewers if you are in fact just looking for a second opinion. --CNMall41 (talk) 23:54, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Note left so that it doesn't get denied simply for not being improved. In the meantime, I would suggest to fix the referencing issues as there is content that is not supported by references which is not something you want to do when it comes to a BLP. I see it is in queue again so another reviewer should come around shortly. Cheers! --CNMall41 (talk) 23:56, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi, sorry for the delay.. I have made changes (added more sources as you asked). Can you please make sure it's notted? if not, it's okay and I thank you for your time. Li-reg (talk) 16:12, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Reviewers can see that in the edit history, although it would be up to you to note such and it is a simple edit to make to do so. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:30, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Oh oh ok, in the talk page? Li-reg (talk) 19:46, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi, I am sorry to disturb you but can you please check to see why its not reviewed yet?.. also please see that he has an hebrew and german pages by now as well... if you can, it will be amazing... Li-reg (talk) 20:47, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Concern regarding User:JakePMM/sandbox

Hello, CNMall41. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that User:JakePMM/sandbox, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 02:05, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Looks more like a script error as this was moving someone else's AfC submission from their sandbox to Draft:Daniel Gómez Pérez. --CNMall41 (talk) 02:32, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Thor Industries Logo.jpg

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Draft:Uneeda Biscuits

Hi. I just draftified your article, mistaking you for a new user and reading it as promotional. Are you happy to move it to the correct title yourself? Deb (talk) 08:59, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

@Deb:, Thanks, Deb. Completely understand why someone would think that. The majority of the references show that the company was well known but best known for its branding and marketing. Thanks for deleting the redirect. I went a head and moved it to that title. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:38, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Draft:TopGum Industries

Hello CNMall41,

Thank you for reviewing my draft. Unfortunately I see that you think the subject may not be important enough based on my references. However, while there are no high profiles articles about it on global media since the market itself is rather small, the company is indeed a global leader with a huge market share, a lucrative stock, and of course a lot of coverage in Hebrew media on every step they do. Given all that I do think they are worthy of the article. So I wanted to consult with you, what do you think can help the draft to get an approval?

עידו כ.ש. (talk) 09:38, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

I can't seem to ping your UN so simply replying. I left a note on the delince with a link to the relevant referencing guideline. Please start at WP:ORGCRIT for references that would be acceptable to show notability. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:39, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello user:CNMall41, I just saw your reply. Thank you for that.

Do you think a Wikipedia article about TopGum in a different language might considered a significant mention/coverage for the company for it to be approved?

Thanks again,

עידו כ.ש. (talk) 12:07, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Different language Wikipedia projects have different rules for notability so I would not be able to opine. I will say that the existence of a Wikipedia page in another project is NOT something that can be claimed as notability for another project though. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:03, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: Economy, trade, and companies request for comment

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COI at Draft:Syedhwan

Nice honey-pot:) I've now blocked a second /24 that was plaguing that and related articles. I'm not a checkuser so I can't provide any technical connection to accounts. DMacks (talk) 03:41, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the block. As smart as they think they are, they sure do leave a lot of breadcrumbs. --CNMall41 (talk) 04:31, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Your draft article, User:Latevidyasagar047/sandbox

Hello, CNMall41. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "sandbox".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 16:54, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Believe this was meant for Latevidyasagar047. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:45, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Jasmin Bajwa

Hi there, I'd appreciate some feedback on this article Jasmin Bajwa. I believe it doesn't meet WP:GNG due to a lack of in-depth coverage on the subject. I've added the "More Citations Needed" and "Notability" templates, but the author and an IP user keep removing them, this is not a big problem. Could you offer some advice as a more experienced editor? Thanks! Grabup (talk) 10:31, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

There is definitely something going on with regards to UPE, SPI, or LOUTSOCKing. Following the bread crumbs from the recently uploaded image will tell you more. As far as notability, it looks like a borderline case. There is this which while promotional in tone, has a byline and there is no indication it falls under NEWSORGINDIA so that would be at least one acceptable source. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:20, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Shakib Khan

I noticed that you keep an eye on my edits, thanks for that. First of all, I wrote the articles, so I am responsible for them. If you have a personal grudge against this article or its actor, take it out somewhere else. This is not the place to vent your anger.

(1) This kind of page/article is not the only one, you can see similar articles of other actors, for example Shah Rukh Khan, Salman Khan, Saif Ali Khan, Tom Cruise or Leonardo DiCaprio.

(2) To have so many Wikipedians on Wikipedia, and nobody's eyes are wrong, only your eyes are wrong?

So, to make major edits, you must discuss in the talk section. Otherwise your edits will(must) be undone. thank you নবাব (talk) 12:29, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't "keep an eye" on your edits. They appear on my watchlist as most of the pages you have created were recently deleted because they were done by a blocked or banned user. I have a personal grudge against undisclosed paid editing which you are likely engaging in so don't go down the "personal grudge" role. I will just state that WP:ONUS is on YOU to discuss, not me. Feel free to do so but also please take my conduct to WP:ANI if you feel I have overstepped in any way. In fact, I invited it. As far as "will (must) be undone," I call bullshit. You are basically saying you would rather engage in an edit war than follow an established policy. Do as you will but remember all actions have consequences. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:02, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Draft for Chip Merlin

Hello! You recently denied my draft for the article on Chip Merlin. I'm having difficulty understanding why and was hoping for some guidance. Merlin's quickly become a darling of the boat racing world over the past seven years, and the story of him making this late-in-life transition from attorney to yacht racer has been written up on a number of boating websites and in boating magazines, many of which I've cited. Within the yact racing world, it's almost impossible to run across someone who follows the sport and doesn't know his story or the story of the Merlin S/V; I feel like this is perhaps a case of an editor not being familiar with the subject matter and therefore not realizing the notability? Any advice would be appreciated.Sailbanshee (talk) 18:51, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

@Sailbanshee:, Wikipedia is based on guidelines that have been agreed to throughout the years. Unfortunately, becoming a "darling" isn't included in those guidelines. If you look at WP:BIO you will have a better understanding of what is required and I will address any specific questions about that guideline you have. In the meantime, your username and editing pattern give the impression that you know Mr. Merlin. I would ask that you also read WP:COI and WP:PAID and make the appropriate disclosure if applicable. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:50, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Respectfully, I don't know Mr. Merlin any more than I know Nathan Fielder or the owners of Pink's hot dog stand. I am however a fan of the world of boat racing which is how I know _of_ Mr. Merlin. I find it personally offensive that you immediately jumped to this conclusion and based on it don't feel that your rejection of this article comes from an unbiased or good faith perspective. I myself could make the claim that based on your editing pattern you became an article reviewer simply to reject new content.Sailbanshee (talk) 22:09, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Respectfully, I cannot control how you feel. Those are your emotions, not mine. I simply asked the question as based on over a decade of experience in Wikipedia, the editing I see gives me the impression you may have a connection. There was no accusation. However, since you decided to go down that road, we are done here. You can certainly raise my conduct with administrators if you feel it to be nefarious. As far as the draft, you are welcome to work on it and resubmit if you feel it meets guidelines and another reviewer will come along and opine. --CNMall41 (talk) 22:13, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Rachel Cowan

You recently declined my article Draft:Rachel_Cowan stating "References are made up of mostly obituaries. Is there anything that talks about her in-depth prior to that time?". A few days ago I made enough Wikipedia edits to have free access to Newspaper archives and have added references from the New York Daily News, Miami Herald, The News Journal (Wilmington, DE), St. Cloud Times all of which discuss her and her work. I also added a book review from the NYTimes. I'd appreciate better understanding how many citations are enough to establish notability for a Wikipedia page. Thanks. Nnev66 (talk) 21:12, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

I have resubmitted the draft for you. A reviewer should come along shortly and provide an opinion. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:52, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) I have approved it. BD2412 T 22:35, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

BeauSuzanne

Do you think BeauSuzanne might be a sockpuppet of Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Nauman335? They both have a track record of moving BLPs from draft to the main namespace. What's your take on this? —Saqib (talk | contribs) 10:43, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

There is some overlap, including editing the same pages that is not conclusive. The last SPI showed no CU evidence so you would likely need to gather as much behavioral evidence as possible if you file. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:02, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

I am going to take some time and look deeper. At this point, they either need to be shown as a sock or left alone. It can be bordering on harassment imo to follow an editor who is not definitively UPE or a sock. Will let you know what I find. --CNMall41 (talk) 23:38, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

@Saqib:, I left more information on the SPI page. I think it is highly probable based on what I see but knowing previous socks they are likely to be good about masking so a CU may not be helpful. I also looked at some of the AfD's and believe those are justified although I am going to hold off on voting at the moment as many may be G5 eligible. --CNMall41 (talk) 01:12, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

If monitoring a problematic user is deemed harassment, should I cease monitoring them and allow them to continue damaging WP? Isn't this concerning enough for the community that they're repeatedly violating WP:BLP and have remained under the radar until now? They've gone to great length to create WP:PKRS just to game the system and make things easier for themselves and their socks. It seems like it's time to initiate a new discussion on WP:RSN to determine which Pakistani sources are acceptable for BLPs and which are not. Are you interested in participating? --—Saqib (talk | contribs) 09:22, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

To be clear, I was NOT accusing you of anything nefarious. What I was saying is that in instances such as this we need to either dig or let it be. As you see, user has already complained about it. So, it is part of having clean hands. As far as the sources, I was not aware that PKRS existed. Will take a look. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:02, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Libraa2019 (talk · contribs) has been on WP since 2019, editing in the same area as BeauSuzanne . However, they've never taken part in AfD discussions or engaged in talk page discussion. But today, they suddenly participated by voting to keep. This behavior raises suspicions. Do you smell something fishy too? —Saqib (talk | contribs) 18:07, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

I do. There is definitely cross-editing with the Nauman335 farm. As anticipated, there is no CU evidence as they likely are avoiding scrutiny in that area. Would advise to get a behavioral assessment from admins at the SPI case as I feel they are in the least MEAT or possibly all part of the same farm editing from different IPs. Sometimes we focus so much on CU confirmation that we gloss over the behavioral evidence. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:11, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

I agree, but gathering behavioral evidence is incredibly tedious. Dealing with such serial sock puppeteers is really exhausting and it feels like we're just scratching the surface. BTW do you think I might have gone too far in nominating BLPs created by BeauSuzanne ? @Hydrangeans objected to several noms and while I value her opinion, I'm concerned that the closing admin might base their decision on non-consensus. —Saqib (talk | contribs) 20:06, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

I do understand how tedious it is. I do it because I know it disrupts their flow of getting paid to edit while at the same time keeping some promotional content off Wikipedia. I have not looked at all of the ones you nominated as I am down the rabbit hole of another SOCK farm at the moment. I did read one comment from them however and it seems their issue is the belief that you overstepped by nominating them. If they feel you are out of line, they need to bring that up at ANI, not the AfD. That's the not the place to RGWs. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:09, 3 May 2024 (UTC)--CNMall41 (talk) 20:09, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

On a different note, it would be unfair to label DAWN and Pakistan Today, as an unreliable source. While they may occasionally publish sponsored or paid articles, they remain the most trusted print news source we have. —Saqib (talk | contribs) 20:24, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Every one of those is unreliable. The publications themselves are not unreliable, but the specific references are. They are classic examples of NEWSORGINDIA. Note the bylines and classic WP:CHURNALISM-style regurgitation. We should NEVER accept one of these are reliable to show notability. As an example, compare this one from PT to the one currently on the page. The one I cite here is bylined and shows it would fall under editorial oversight (whether or not it was reviewed by an editor could be a different story but nonetheless would not be considered NEWSORGINDIA).--CNMall41 (talk) 20:36, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

You make a valid point but as far I can tell, dawn.com (even web) has its own editorial team and they typically don't publish churnalism stories. —Saqib (talk | contribs) 20:51, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Well, now you know. It can be hard to tell sometimes so you just need to dig a little bit. Again, it can be tedious but you can find it. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:54, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Well, I don't find anything foul about this news story from dawn.com. It's not PROMO, nor fake news nor appears to be paid content. However, it still falls short of establishing WP:N. —Saqib (talk | contribs) 21:02, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Here is another of the same churnalism. Everything in these revolves around a press release or likely paid media. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:58, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm solely defending Dawn (newspaper) and dawn.com, not other sources. —Saqib (talk | contribs) 21:03, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Maybe I am not explaining it correctly. Dawn is considered a reliable source. We can agree on that. However, this particular reference within DAWN should be discounted as it is clear churnalism. It is based on a press release or announcement and there is no independent though or coverage given to it. The links I showed you are showing that this SAME story based on a press release or paid article was reprinted in many other publications, indicating CHURNALISM. We do not base notability on reprinted press releases or stories made up solely based on announcements. --CNMall41 (talk) 21:11, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

I just left a comment about a similar issue in the US press as it relates to TechCrunch.--CNMall41 (talk) 21:13, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Got you. I think I need to re-read WP:CHURNALISM. But I agree with you that these references, including Dawn, aren't sufficient to establish WP:N. However, it's very challenging to convey this even to experienced editors incl admins, as they often just want to see some form of coverage on AfDs to establish WP:N. —Saqib (talk | contribs) 21:20, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

For me, it is an just a difference between verifiability and notability. If someone wants to argue churnalism as valid to verify something, I normally don't fuss, especially if it is something such as verifying it exists. However, notability needs independence which is not present in churnalism. Hope that makes sense. --CNMall41 (talk) 21:24, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Anbe vaa

Hey idiot, Why the hell are u restoring my edits?? anbe vaa show has ended with 1102 episodes and i m trying to move it past serial list, and u have been restoring it current serials list.. are u in coma?? have u not seen the ashow has ended.. if u have dont have work get the hell out of here.. B103N48 (talk) 11:38, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Reply here. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:43, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Reminder to vote now to select members of the first U4C

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RUFSTR Racing Submission

Hi CNMall41,

You recently declined the creation of my article for RUFSTR Racing. As I'm a fan of offshore powerboat racing and Wikipedia has a lot of room to grow in coverage of the sport, and along the lines of WikiProject:Motorsport, I plan on building out articles for some of the most notable teams within the key racing organizations. Before I keep creating more I'd like to learn how I can improve what I submitted to better meet the guidelines so I can get the process down correctly and avoid issues with future articles. I did cite what I felt was a good amount of unique and independent sources, namely some of the biggest publications in the powerboating world, along with information directly from the Offshore Powerboat Association's rulebook and results. Can you please let me know how I can improve my submission? Thank you and have a nice evening!

Best,

Nwitherby Nwitherby (talk) 02:01, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

I took a look at the draft again and unfortunately do not see how this meets WP:GNG. The references are all trade publications and one is for the association. As such, I do not see how this can be improved since it wouldn't meet notability guidelines in my opinion. I am glad you are interested in the topic and would encourage you to work on other pages that currently exist and are notable. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:08, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hi CNMall41. Thank you for your work on Uneeda Biscuit. Another editor, SunDawn, has reviewed it as part of new pages patrol and left the following comment:

Good day! Thank you for contributing to Wikipedia by writing this article. I have marked the article as reviewed. Have a wonderful and blessed day for you and your family!

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|SunDawn}}. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 09:46, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

MangoBaaz

This is another spam article which fails WP:NCORP. 103.126.219.248 (talk) 00:19, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

I honestly don't trust anything coming out of your IP range so won't be looking. Feel free to nominate it if you feel it doesn't meet guidelines. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:14, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Isn't it intriguing that the same IP posted on my talk page? I also don't feel the need to respond to IPs. They seem to just want to distract us. —Saqib (talk | contribs) 19:42, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Based on previous ANI and COIN threads, these are likely competitors of other sock farms all vying for the same business. I don't find it strange that this range shows up in many SPIs. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:43, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aboli (2nd nomination)

Hello, CNMall41,

I was looking at the AFD you started and there are a lot of unrelated AFDs listed on it whose only relationship is that their subject starts with the letters "aboli". They have nothing to do with this television program. Can you remove them from the page so that participants don't get confused and think this article has been brought to AFD 7 or 8 times? Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 15:24, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

@Liz:, That is strange actually. Looks like they were added as part of the AfD script and I do not see a way to remove them. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:14, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

The Herald just took care of it. Thanks for the help. Will know how in case it happens again. --CNMall41 (talk) 06:05, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I have manually edited and replaced the template. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 06:57, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

I truly appreciate it. I was clueless. I started deleting code and hitting "show preview" 20 different times without making an impact. lol. --CNMall41 (talk) 07:02, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

WP:PAID

Hey there, I wanted to know how can I get into paid editing? Does it comply with Wikipedia policies or not. Kindly guide me. 182.182.97.3 (talk) 19:34, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't have the time to deal with your trolling. Stay off my talk page. Or not. Your trolling will help get your entire IP range blocked and make it harder for you to collect from clients. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:35, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

On another note...

I saw your discussion at @Kuru's talk page and you might also want to add nl.mashable.com to your or maybe Kuru's list of UPE/SEO sources, especially articles by redactie/staff. See User talk:Drmies#Door Redactie/Redactie meaning for additional details. As you know, pull a thread and UPE/socks tumble out. S0091 (talk) 20:04, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Definitely will add that one; keeps popping up on spam articles. I'm not convinced any of the mashable controls are present in that offshoot. Sam Kuru (talk) 20:06, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @Kuru. I have learned a ton by seeing you remove SEO sources and I am sure others as well. S0091 (talk) 20:14, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Excellent note. Thanks for the heads up. You are right about pulling threads. Just found one today based on UPE/SEO.--CNMall41 (talk) 20:13, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Like magic right! Except for all the hard work that goes into identifying sources/tactics/behaviour not to mention much of it you cannot discuss on-wiki because WP:BEANS, etc. S0091 (talk) 20:25, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

At this point, I don't think I am going to chase as much. SPI seems broken and its disheartening as there are obvious socks running amuck without any chance of slowing down. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:27, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

last question

just tell me these references [9] [10] [11] establish notability or not so that i may add them to the article. Imsaneikigai (talk) 18:58, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

I am honestly done discussing with you. No offense but it has become ad nauseam. Understanding references is a requirement you need before creating pages in the main space. You can discuss with others at the deletion discussion but there's really nothing more I can say as I made my points in that thread many times already. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:02, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Taxali Gate (film)

Hi, I disagree with your notability tag. Full reviews in three national sources (Dawn, Dawn Images and The Express Tribune) by named journalists is enough to pass WP:NFILM criteria 1 and WP:GNG. Note that after discussions at the film project nationally known critics refers to journalists writing for a widely circulated national publication or website. Some of the other references are poor but the reviews are enough to carry it. If you disagree take it to AfD, regards Atlantic306 (talk) 21:20, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

@Atlantic306:, Nope, no disagreement. I looked closer and the reviews will likely pass an AfD. When I initially went through it, I don't think I got all the way to the reviews as the first 8 or 9 were all unreliable or interviews. I tagged it for reference cleanup which should suffice. Thanks for the note. --CNMall41 (talk) 21:23, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Suntv Wiki page

Dear CNMall41, Dear new editor, consensus have already reached in suntv wiki talk page to include the episode count for serials , 3 years before by all senior editors. Since episode count is an important information we have included there. So i request you to kindly refer the talk page further for any clarifications.

Then stop doing disruptive edits to the suntv wiki page, everytime when you are editing, 1 or 2 currently airing serials are mising from the list. The page contains onlt those serials which are currently airing in the television right now, I dont know why you are editing it out . Pls stop ur disruptive editing which leads to loss of data.

before editing any critical information, pls check properly any data is missed or refer the talk page for any consensus reached.. there is a reason such a format is exisiting, dont disturb it any further Munthanam (talk) 03:58, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

I try to AGF in Wikipedia but statements like "stop doing disruptive edits" makes it difficult. I look at the talk page you speak of and do not see a consensus. I see two accounts (one of which is now blocked for personal attacks) trying to convince an experienced editor to add the episode count but do not see this as standard and also see it as a violation of WP:NOTTVGUIDE. Happy to continue the discussion on that talk page should you choose. --CNMall41 (talk) 04:11, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

i wanted CNMall41 ur opinion about loss of information on new serials everytime u edit Munthanam (talk) 04:43, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Like I said, it is better to continue on the talk page of that article. --CNMall41 (talk) 07:14, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

Your feedback is requested at Talk:Ben Roberts-Smith on a "Biographies" request for comment. Thank you for helping out!
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Another chance

Hello,

I am new to wikipedia and had the misfortune of misunderstanding what some other editors said about references, and my article about the investment firm Bedrock was rejected by you. I have added about a dozen more references back to the article, would you consider un-rejecting it? I have worked hard in good faith on this. Student7y335 (talk) 10:50, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Message left at your talk page and at one of the two threads you started at the HELP desk. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:58, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Reverting constructive edits on Gangubai Kathiawadi

I have quoted 4 sources of the additional information added on page Gangubai Kathiawadi. However you have just removed the relevant data without quoting any sources, accusing me of vandalism and moreover threatening of blockage from editing. Please know that all have equal rights to constructively add information here, not just you. This disruptive editing from your end without mentioning reasons hints at probable vandalize. Hope you understand CNMall41 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) sir, thanks Ankitsalsa14 (talk) 11:54, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. I will try to do better. You did the right thing by reporting me.--CNMall41 (talk) 17:52, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Review

Sir Please review Draft:Vaibhav Palhade Steelbird1967 (talk) 10:33, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Thank you for all your hard work on making Wikipedia better! I noticed your requests on page protection and SPI. Yeah, it can get rough sometimes feeling like nobody else cares, but I think your work is great and helpful. Hope things get better soon :)

–Sincerely, A Lime 17:43, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

നിനക്ക് നാണമുണ്ടോ

പറ്റാവുന്ന references അതും അഭിനേതാക്കൾ പറഞ്ഞ അനുഭവങ്ങൾ ഒറിജിനൽtelecast സമയത്ത്ചെയ്ത പരിപാടി ഒക്കെ റഫറൻസ് ആയിട്ട് ഇട്ടാപ്പോ നിനക്ക് എന്തിൻ്റെ ചൊറിച്ചിലാണ്???? 103.166.244.76 (talk) 03:52, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Your draft article, User:JakePMM/sandbox

Hello, CNMall41. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or draft page you started, "sandbox".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:52, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, @Liz:. Not mine though. --CNMall41 (talk) 01:53, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

AfC

Hi! What did I bork here? Would love not to leave messes for you to clean up. Thanks for heads up! Star Mississippi 02:08, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

@Star Mississippi:, absolutely nothing. I always hit the cleanup script prior to reviewing any AfC submission. Makes it easier in case there is something errant. I apologize if it seemed like I was correcting something you did wrong. I started to do some AfC reviews and decided I need to step back for a while (as with film related discussions), so back to golf and companies. --CNMall41 (talk) 02:11, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: Economy, trade, and companies request for comment

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Instupendo

He is best known by Instupendo. Can the name be changed? What citations do I need to give you for the notice on the article? 20 Ange 20 (talk) 02:43, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

@20 Ange 20:, I moved it based on WP:COMMONNAME. As far as references, you will need reliable sources to support the discography. In fact, if sources are not available or no one adds them, another editor or myself is likely to remove them. --CNMall41 (talk) 03:57, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Question about Draft:Azeem Azhar (entrepreneur)

Hey there, I have been asked by Azhar's company to review this draft page and determine why it was rejected. Full disclosure: they're paying me to improve the page to reach that point.

I've made a number of changes to the page so far, including adding a profile by Vox as well as additional sources and details about his personal life and career; you can see the full record of changes here. I'm convinced the subject meets notability guidelines - he seems to have a long career in media and in business, and is regarded as especially credible on AI and emerging technologies in particular. If you wouldn't mind, could you take a second look at this to review my changes? If it's still insufficient to meet guidelines, I'd appreciate some guidance on what exactly is lacking - my hope is I can correct those issues. There are a number of sources I haven't used. Thanks for your time! Toa Nidhiki05 (Work) (talk) 01:59, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

@Toa Nidhiki05 (Work):, you added approximately 10 references which I cannot see which are which. Keep in mind we need references that focus on him, not just his role with the founding of Exponential View. It seems like many of the references I looked at previously focus on Exponential View and discuss him briefly as his founder role. Other than Vox, can you point out the specific references that focus on him? I can go back and take a look once you do. --CNMall41 (talk) 06:59, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the prompt response, @CNMall41:! If I'm counting correctly, these are the citations I added:

• Harvard Business Review piece on TV show/podcast
• Appointment to Ofcom Consumer Panel
• The Times book review
• Financial Times book review
• MIT Technology Review book review
• Financial Times book of the year
• The Times book of the year
• Vox profile
• World Economic Forum
• World Economic Forum page

The book reviews go into detail on the book, of course, but also his viewpoint and some of his personal life. The others uniformly treat him as a reliable and noteworthy figure in the tech space. For what it's worth - I don't think the page itself, as it is, focuses much on his founding of Exponential View - at least in my scan of sources. I was able to salvage information from a lot of them, including his role in creating websites for multiple media companies in the 90s. If additional sources are needed, I'd be glad to find more. Toa Nidhiki05 (Work) (talk) 16:45, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

A few more sources I've found - although not sure where to add some of them:

• Full piece from Business Insider focused on his thoughts on Microsoft's Tay chatbox debacle. The entire article is his thoughts, so it's not just a passing mention or anything.
• Book review from Axios
• Wired piece on best Newsletters
• World Economic Forum video
• World Economic Forum panel
• McKinsey interview
• GZERO interview
• European Innovation Council
• Thinkers50 page, including accolade

Thanks again! Toa Nidhiki05 (Work) (talk) 17:11, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

@Toa Nidhiki05 (Work):, Thanks for the response. Please make sure to be brief as it is difficult to read walls of texts. Just advice to a paid editor as your requests for other pages will likely be reviewed faster if you are brief and to the point.

As far as the references, I see a lot of book reviews and mentions. Specifically what I am asking for is references where HE is the main topic such as the Vox profile. Can you point these out for me?--CNMall41 (talk) 22:01, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Sorry about that, @CNMall41: - I figured more sources might showcase notability. These articles below are ones I would say he's unequivocally the main topic:

• Vantage Point - Profile piece from the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland

  Everything is accelerating in the exponential age - Interview with TechCrunch

  Azeem Azhar: ‘Technology is too important to be left to technologists’ - Interview with Silicon Republic

  Here's why Microsoft's teen chatbot turned into a genocidal racist, according to an AI expert - Interview with Business Insider

  Is AI a force for good? Depends on who controls it, experts say - Panel interview at the World Economic Forum

  Author Talks: Azeem Azhar on closing the exponential gap - Interview with McKinsey & Company

  Azeem Azhar explores the future of AI - Interview with GZero

As you can see, most of these are long-form interviews. I don't think these qualify as mere mentions - Azhar is the subject of these articles, and none of them are press releases. Is there a specific policy on articles like these? I've always regarded them as favorable towards GNG. As always, thanks again for your quick response and willingness to discuss! Toa Nidhiki05 (Work) (talk) 22:33, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Some of the reviews could make the book notable, but the draft is about him so that is what we need to focus on. --CNMall41 (talk) 22:04, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

That's true - would the same also potentially apply to his newsletter as well? Toa Nidhiki05 (Work) (talk) 22:33, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

I am not sure were are getting anywhere here unfortunately. I will give you my opinion and then feel free to resubmit or whatever you feel is appropriate under guidelines. You say these are "long-form interviews" and do not qualify as mentions. Note that interviews, long-form or not, are still interviews and not independent. As far as the book and the newsletter, I only said it "may" qualify. I did not evaluate nor will I given that you are being paid to do that work. You are free to create drafts and submit after doing your own assessment. Take care. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:53, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Just to clarify - can you point to policy where an interview with a reliable source is not usable for WP:GNG? I checked Wikipedia:Independent sources, which says "An independent source is a source that has no vested interest in a given Wikipedia topic and therefore is commonly expected to cover the topic from a disinterested perspective. Independent sources have editorial independence (advertisers do not dictate content) and no conflicts of interest (there is no potential for personal, financial, or political gain to be made from the existence of the publication)". I fail to see how an interview with a reliable outlet fails to qualify as this. Can you point to relevant policy on interviews? Toa Nidhiki05 (Work) (talk) 21:57, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

You can search the talk page of GNG for the term "interview."--CNMall41 (talk) 22:29, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Faye Travel Insurance

You rejected this draft as promotion because of the services section. I included this information as it was part of the sources I thought were needed to show it was notable. I have removed some of the information but it also removes the references. Can you give me advice on how I can do one without the other? SoScRa2 (talk) 02:52, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

@SoScRa2:, I moved your comment (and responded) to the talk page of the draft since you had already started a discussion there on notability. --CNMall41 (talk) 07:06, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

You approved this article and now it’s up for deletion. Can you just delete it? This is too frustrating. --SoScRa2 (talk) 23:46, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

@SoScRa2: I understand Wikipedia can be frustrating, especially when an article is recommended for deletion. I would advise you to go to the deletion discussion and vote should you so choose. In the meantime, I will leave a comment there saying you request deletion. --CNMall41 (talk) 07:56, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Draft: Carlo Rino Group Berhad

Resubmission Article for CARLO RINO GROUP BERHAD Wikipedia page

Dear Wikipedia reviewer, I noticed you declined my article titled ”Carlo Rino Group Berhad” the reason being that “the draft needs multiple published sources that are “in-depth, reliable, secondary, strictly independent”.

I would like to resubmit this page for your kind review and approval with additional supporting articles that I strongly believe meet the 4 criteria (in-depth, reliable, secondary, strictly independent) and demonstrate that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia page and is notable.

1. https://theedgemalaysia.com/node/708062 - this newspaper article from a Financial Newspaper in Malaysia talks in depth with figures, numbers and details about Carlo Rino IPO in 2018 and listing on the Malaysian stock exchange.
2. https://theedgemalaysia.com/article/style-whim- This newspaper article published by the Sun talks about the Carlo Rino 2015 spring collection, and the innovative materials used in shoes and handbags
3. https://www.theceomagazine.com/executive-interviews/apparel-accessories/william-chiang/ - This is a magazine interview with the CEO of Carlo Rino where he talks about partnering with Looney Tunes and growing importance of e-commerce and data in business. It’s also stated that Carlo Rino is a growing brand and has reached 100 points of sales (globally) in 2022

These 3 articles in addition to the 10 existing references demonstrate that Carlo Rino Group Berhad is a well-known, popular and successful fashion brand in many countries in Asia.

Thus, I hope you would agree that it meets the “Notability requirement”  for a Wikipedia page.

Looking forward to your favourable response.

Alle Ceambur Allewikiwriter (talk) 07:12, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

@Allewikiwriter:, I looked at the three sources and unfortunately they would not meet WP:ORGCRIT. The first is a routine announcements, the second would be close as it does talk about the company more in-depth but reads like a promotional piece (let's just assume it is fine to use at the moment), the third is about CEO and is an interview or based largely on an interview so not considered independent. There was a comment left on the draft I just saw related to COI. Could you also please review WP:COI and WP:PAID and make the appropriate disclosure if applicable? --CNMall41 (talk) 19:50, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Don't touch my any edits

Hey mr. @CNMall41, You do not touch my any edits. If necessary, someone else will edit. You have been prohibited, furthermore, I will be obliged to take action against you.

নবাব (talk) 20:44, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Okay. Please take action. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:45, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

You're spreading hate speech. I request you not to edit my edits. --নবাব (talk) 21:32, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm requesting you not to edit my edits because you edit almost all articles after I edit or create them. Additionally, I have strong evidence that you are eavesdrops on my edits. Therefore, I kindly request you not to edit my edits to avoid conflicts. নবাব (talk) 21:44, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

@নবাব: regarding your accusation of CNMall41 "spreading hate speech" and "eavesdrops on my edits", Wikipedia is not a website where you can just throw out accusations like this. Either provide diffs or retract your personal attacks. You will not receive another warning. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 21:48, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I mentioned on top that I have strong evidence. By the way, who are you to talk to me like this? নবাব (talk) 21:55, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I am an administrator, and I am telling you to provide the evidence now or retract your personal attack now. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 21:56, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

If you were an administrator, who would you order me like this? Are you the owner of Wikipedia, or have you bought me to give orders? নবাব (talk) 22:01, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

@নবাব: I am also an administrator on Wikipedia. Ivanvector is exactly correct. I would advise that you consider this. BD2412 T 23:48, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

There are two accusations you are making here I believe. The first is hate speech which I sincerely hope you are not being serious. The other is "eavesdrop[ing]" which I believe you are referring to WP:HOUNDING. I do follow your edits under an exception of WP:HA#NOT. The pages you edit and/or create have been extensively edited and/or created by socks, of which you are also suspected. Since these pages show up on my watchlist I most certainly look at the edits to ensure they do not contain WP:FAKEREF, aren't WP:PROMO, meet WP:NFILM, etc. I would check the editing of these pages regardless if it were you or someone else editing. Seeing things like this and this confirm the need to do so. --CNMall41 (talk) 23:44, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Spamming?

Hello - I've noticed an editor consistently citing footballpakistan.com excessively in every article they edit or create. Is this a cause for concern? —Saqib (talk I contribs) 20:47, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Depends. If the source is not reliable and some attempts to continuously add it then it would be spam. If it is reliable and someone is attempting to use that source continuously it could be for promotion and a potential COI. All depends on circumstance. I would recommend first filing at WP:RSN to determine the reliability of the source. If unreliable, it can simply be removed. --CNMall41 (talk) 07:53, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Footballpakistan.com and accusation of "spamming". —Saqib (talk I contribs) 07:54, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

What's your quick take on this website? —Saqib (talk I contribs) 07:56, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, but I honestly don't even want to review it. It is a subject I am not too familiar with and don't want to start going down more rabbit holes with Pakistani sources. Kind of burned out at the moment based on a few things taking place in that space. Hopefully the RSN will come through with an opinion.--CNMall41 (talk) 08:03, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

No problem, I understand. However, I want to remind you to take a look at User:Saqib/Sources whenever you get some spare time. I could really use your help to get that page ready, especially with your expertise in determining the reliability of sources. —Saqib (talk I contribs) 08:10, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, but I am going to pass. Honestly, I don't feel like there is much support for weeding out UPE, promotional edits, or anything else in that space. I won't be doing anything outside of random editing, I won't dig deep. No need to burn myself out over it. --CNMall41 (talk) 08:15, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

I totally get your concerns and I agree with you. That's exactly why I started this page. Right now, UPEs are getting by using sources that seem reliable at first glance, but they actually aren't. Editors who aren't familiar with Pakistani sources perceive these dubious sources as reliable and that’s how promotional content slip through. It's the same story at AfDs. Some random account Hkkingg shows up, says "keep" based on these dubious sources and the AfD ends up closing as either keep or no consensus. But having a page to outline each and every Pakistani source would help a lot. We wouldn't need to chase sock puppets or UPEs—we could just go by the assessment of sources. And just to be clear, I don't want you to take this to WP:RSN to fight about it. I just need your help assessing some sources to see if my assessment makes sense. That's all. But no pressure if you don't want to. —Saqib (talk I contribs) 08:27, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Following up on Fastly History/Acquisitions request

Hey there, I'm following up about this request on the Fastly Talk page. In response to your feedback, I expanded the scope a bit, proposing a few revisions to the History section and pulling the company's acquisitions down into their own subsection. I think this aligns with what you suggested, but if not, please feel free to correct me.

I'm eager to hear your further thoughts, but I know you're a volunteer editor, so don't feel like you need to rush on my account. I appreciate your help and hope we'll speak again soon. Thanks! Jagger at Fastly (talk) 17:44, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

@Jagger at Fastly:, I am not sure I can assist you at this point. You did the exact opposite of my suggestion. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:27, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I thought you were okay with an Acquisitions subsection. My mistake. I've now reworked the History further, so the acquisitions are dispersed chronologically within a fully unified section (link here). Is that more in line with what you were thinking? Again, apologies for the mix-up. Jagger at Fastly (talk) 22:59, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I will take a look when I get my head around it. That is, if no one takes up the task in the meantime. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:56, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

I appreciate the help. If there's anything I can do to make the review process a little bit easier, please do let me know! Jagger at Fastly (talk) 20:17, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Diligence
	In recognition of your enormous work sniffing out Nauman335 and other UPE/socks. It is not the 'fun' side of Wikipedia (soul crushing?) but you have laid down a foundation upon which others can understand the disruption and identify ongoing disruption. S0091 (talk) 19:30, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Well deserved! Thanks for all your hard work catching UPEs and sockpuppets on Pakistani topics! You're really helping to keep things in check. Keep it up! —Saqib (talk I contribs) 21:30, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Question

Hi! I have a question I created the user name thinking about the subject I was going to talk about can I change that ? IntermexUSA (talk) 22:40, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Sam Yagan request: Excelerate Labs and IAC information

Hi there. A while back, you helped me out with a COI request on the Sam Yagan talk page. I want to see if you still have any interest in this page because I have another open COI request here: Talk:Sam_Yagan#Request_to_update_Excelerate_Labs_and_IAC_information. This is to add information about some of Yagan's previous companies. I made this request on behalf of Yagan through my work at Corazon Capital. Thank you for considering. CBCorazon (talk) 22:36, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

@CBCorazon:, did you place the COI request template on the page?--CNMall41 (talk) 21:46, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

CNMall41 Yes the template has been there since the post was made, which has been nearly a month now. CBCorazon (talk) 20:49, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Tell me please

I made the Ashtami page first. And you deliberately drafted the page with false allegations of COL. I have been keeping quiet till now as I was busy with my personal work. Tell me honestly why you want to delete my newly created pages like this. . Nilpriyo (talk) 06:16, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Simple. You created the page and it was moved to draft space, then moved back and taken to a deletion discussion. It was JUST deleted pursuant to that discussion but you then recreated it under a disambiguation title to avoid detection of said deletion. All of which is behavior often associated with WP:COI, WP:PAID, and WP:SOCK (or WP:MEAT. Care to respond to why you went through the recreation the way you did? --CNMall41 (talk) 19:18, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Falling on top of socks

A couple weeks or so ago I started going through this edit filter looking for a specific UPE farm but then fell on top of what I am terming the redirect socks (in addition to other UPE) so I have been reverting when I come across them. Apparently I have annoyed them. S0091 (talk) 16:51, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

@S0091:, It only annoys them as they likely don't get paid unless their edits stick. Great job. Have you seen this? Pinging @JBW: as well since they are involved. I believe it is a case of creating a redirect and then using another account to remove and create the page in hopes no one will see it or to avoid G5 in the event they are caught in an SPI. Good work!!!--CNMall41 (talk) 16:56, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Ok, so that's the SPI. I knew there had to be one but hadn't yet made the effort to find out which one. I also had a discussion with Ponyo as she had protected a couple of the redirects and she thought protection was likely the better route. I had also thought about moving them to draft but worried that would at least be least frowned upon so I'd be interested in getting yours and JBW's thoughts. S0091 (talk) 17:34, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

I think it's a fine line but there was mention in the SPI that the pages created by RB could be G5'd if it is conclusive. A better route may be to redirect and protect the pages as deleting them will only lead to multiple attempts at recreation. Just my thoughts. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:40, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

And before I forget, I think P.Karthik.95 is like part of this or at least UPE. S0091 (talk) 17:40, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree. They are on a list of potentials I am keeping but need more evidence as I have filed so many SPIs over the last few months I believe I have annoyed the F*** our of CUs and Admins. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:41, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

I also think Nauman335 is likely part of the same farm (and have thought so for a while). The most recent open SPI on that user shows similar conduct of redirect creation followed by page creation. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:42, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Oh I know about feeling we are bugging CU/SPI. Yesterday I filed one, Spicy got to it right away but then then within minutes I filed another under the same SPI. Between you, me, @GSS, @Saqib and a couple others, we keep SPI hopping unfortunately and UPE farms are usually the toughest cases. S0091 (talk) 17:53, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Yeah. I pissed them off filing so many. I completely understand as it takes away from their enjoyment of editing Wikipedia just like these UPEs take away mine. All good. They do a pretty good job so I am just trying to hold off and file only the ones where I have no doubt based on the evidence. That way they don't feel like Wikipedia is work. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:55, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Oh, I have let go of so many UPEs because I didn't want to spend the time pulling it all together for what a CU might still legitimately deem a weak case and then there are times when I think Wikipedia is overrun with UPE so I have go do something else for while. Like you, I also worry about CUs getting burned out. I would. S0091 (talk) 18:14, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes. Exactly. I thought about going RfA and becoming CU eventually but at this point I don't even want to look in that direction. I have empathy at this point and don't want to join that workload. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:18, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

What I really wish is for us to have a private space where we can collaborate so we are not spilling WP:BEANS or worse, openly suggesting someone of might be UPE who might not be and get other eyes/hands to help with analysis along with AI tools to help id patterns, etc. S0091 (talk) 18:39, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Has anyone noticed our UPEs are emigrating to Simple English WP, fleeing the persecution they face here? Barzakh (TV series), Umro Ayyar - A New Beginning. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 17:50, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

It's not entirely uncommon for UPE to create articles at both en and Simple and/or another language. It's often part of a package deal and a way to hedge so if it gets deleted at one, it will still exist at another which also gets them a Wikidata entry. S0091 (talk) 17:56, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

┌───────────────────────────┘
S0091, A package deal? Is it like buy one, get one free? Wow! — Saqib (talk I contribs) 18:02, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

More like for $XXX you will get these XXX articles on these XXX Wikipedias or if they are unsuccessful at en their backup offer is Simple, etc. They may also offer different wikis such as Wikialpha which is free for all (offline as of last week but existed since like 2009-ish I think) or Wikitia. S0091 (talk) 18:15, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

TL;DR. Sorry guys, I'm in a hurry. By the way, I've just identified a very old account with ~100K edits that's confirmed to be engaging in UPE. Anyway, since I'm here, I have a quick question: what does this edit filter do? I've noticed that UPEs often create a redirect and then, after some time, someone removes the redirect to attempt creating an article. However, the newly created page doesn't appear on NPP. So what would be the best way to tackle this issue? @MPGuy2824:— Saqib (talk I contribs) 18:23, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

@Saqib the filter simply identifies/flags "Large creations by inexperienced user". It requires a person to review them to determine if there's any action to needed. See [12]. As for removing redirects, they do show up at NPP but I think they will be dated with redirect creation date rather than the date the redirect was removed. It's probably the main reason why there are pages in the queue that appear to be years old. S0091 (talk) 18:49, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

It could be they identified a way around NPP by using the redirect creation. What is the SPI for the 100K+ ?--CNMall41 (talk) 19:15, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

S0091, I'm certain that not all redirect turned articles appear in NPP. @MPGuy2824: Do you have any thoughts on this? @CNMall41, Please check your email. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 06:31, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

someone removes the redirect to attempt creating an article. However, the newly created page doesn't appear on NPP. Please give me an example of where this has happened. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 07:14, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

MPGuy2824, Usman Riaz — Saqib (talk I contribs) 07:37, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Can I get an example that is not deleted, please? -MPGuy2824 (talk) 07:41, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

MPGuy2824, In this case, you'll need to wait until I encounter another one. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 10:30, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

@MPGuy2824:, if you look at the new page creations for user RahulBodke you can find a few. here is an example along with this, this, and this. Hope that helps. --CNMall41 (talk) 16:08, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Sadhi Manasa is in the NPP queue (I can see the toolbar there). Jagaddhatri (Telugu TV series) is old (converted to article more than 6 months ago) and articles automatically leave the npp queue if no one reviews them for that long. The other two were reviewed by an NPPer after conversion to article: [13], [14]. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 06:32, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

It is clear they are also moving to Simple English Wikipedia. I am about to go there to start editing as well. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:01, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

I have not actively edited there but have poked around. Vermont is a admin there, active here and a steward and there's at least couple other good/active admins so you shouldn't run into issues with things being actioned on if warranted. S0091 (talk) 17:50, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Perfect. The first two I tagged have been deleted. I am going to make a list of all of the ones that added a Simple English link here on Wikipedia and then go from there. Should expose quote a few socks as well. --CNMall41 (talk) 22:39, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

The question of accept

Now tell the newspapers which are not named under WP:NEWSORGINDIA. If you give those references, will Akash Kusum accept the page? Nilpriyo (talk) 15:48, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

I think I am done assisting you at this point based on WP:DUCKish behavior. The guideline is listed and it is up to you to learn it and apply it. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:55, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

WT:CSD#Revisiting a criterion for UPE creations

You might be interested in this discussion. S0091 (talk) 17:30, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

S0091, TL;DR but are your concerns about editors being hired to participate in AFDs part of the proposed changes too? — Saqib (talk I contribs) 20:29, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

With a new UPE CSD one would not need to go through AfD for a UPE's articles to be deleted. If a user is blocked for UPE their articles prior to the block could be CSD'd. So for example an editor over the course of months/years created several articles then was confirmed UPE all their articles could be CSD'd. As it stands now, it's generally either G5 or G11 but for G5 to apply they need to be confirmed to an already blocked account which is not always the case/possible (ex. creations by masters and their first discovered sock(s) are not G5-able, only the subsequent ones) or the article has to meet G11 but as we know many of them do not meet that criteria either. Make sense? S0091 (talk) 20:59, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

S0091, Absolutely delightful! — Saqib (talk I contribs) 21:16, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Notability

Hello @CNMall41,Hope you’re doing good. I’m just getting to your notice that you have Rejected Draft:Primeshow Entertainment. But somebody has created PrimeShow Entertainment directly to the mainspace. Please look into this. 2409:4070:400D:D366:BD43:5AB9:34BC:4EA8 (talk) 13:01, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Draftified. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 13:26, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

there's also Draft:Primeshow. Going to clean up the mess momentarily but assuming either you or @CNMall41 know whether this is Cricket or Manvith farms? I'm not filing at SPI Star Mississippi 15:26, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

@Star Mississippi:, sorry you keep getting pinged into these. At this point, I am certain that most of these are the same outfit and they are all running together. I think they will all be merged eventually just like Nauman335 just became StayCalmOnTrees. For now, I am unsure which one this would be part of. --CNMall41 (talk) 05:45, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

It's fine. I'm in favor of all the detective work. I just didn't have the on wiki time to try and sort it out or otherwise be helpful. Thanks for all you do on that front Star Mississippi 14:01, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

@Star Mississippi:, I understand the real life stuff. That's why I hate bringing people in to this. Wish there were more of us as it keeps happening.--CNMall41 (talk) 18:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Promotrice delle Belle Arti has been accepted

Promotrice delle Belle Arti, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on its talk page. Most new articles start out as Stub-Class or Start-Class and then attain higher grades as they develop over time. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

Since you have made at least 10 edits over more than four days, you can now create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for creation if you prefer.

If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk. Once you have made at least 10 edits and had an account for at least four days, you will have the option to create articles yourself without posting a request to Articles for creation.

If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider .

Thanks again, and happy editing!

SL93 (talk) 02:10, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Draft verification

Can you have a look on this draft. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Sowban_Hilal IamZubair (talk) 03:38, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Draft : Udne Ki Aasha

Kindly check into the new changes made in the page Draft:Udne ki aasha and kindly give your opinion on it. Aspireeditor5 (talk) 15:30, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

I am not here to entertain you or any other accounts you are associated with. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:32, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

and the Beat Goes On

La de da de de, la de da de da. Keep up the good work! S0091 (talk) 19:47, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Haha. Yes it does. You as well. --CNMall41 (talk) 03:04, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

EastMojo

I noticed that you have been recently removing citations to estmojo.com calling it a "content farm reference". I am not objecting to these removals or claiming that the source is reliable (I haven't looked at it deeply enough to say either way) but could you explain the reason briefly or point me a relevant discussion? Abecedare (talk) 05:11, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

@Abecedare:, here is a thread a posted the day before about the reference. It contains (albeit short) RSN discussion as well as the discussion for the deletion of its Wikipedia page (which was pure spam). You can see when a lot of these links are placed, they are placed in addition to references that are already there which is clear indication that someone is just trying to find anywhere to put them. I am trying to only do a handful a day as I get bored with it. --CNMall41 (talk) 21:20, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the links. I was initially inclined to think that the source was usable in some cases because of (1) the funding by Independent and Public Spirited Media Foundation, (2) their contact us and grievance redressal pages that identify actual persons and addresses, and (3) I thought they were clearly segregating all their sponsored/third-party posts under eastmojo.com/em-buzz/. But your link to sponsored posts shows that (3) is not true and talk about "citizen reporters" on their About Us page is at least a redflag.

(TL;DR)  they are not a fly-by-night operator and there likely is some genuine journalism on their website but barring a way to tell it apart from sponsored and user-generated content, using them as a source is risky. Sad, because northeast India could use greater professional media coverage. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 22:36, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree with your last statement 100%. The entire region actually. There is a ton of WP:NEWSORGINDIA out there and many of the publications receive revenue to write and post articles which muddies the waters and makes a lot of it unreliable (and in the least, skeptical). --CNMall41 (talk) 22:39, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Uttaran

Hi there. You say that subheadings for the plot of this serial is not needed. However, without subheadings the plot just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. We are the Great (talk) 05:38, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

@We are the Great:, with all due respect, I am tired of arguing over this point. If you want to include them, then the WP:ONUS is on you. Use the talk page to get consensus. --CNMall41 (talk) 09:54, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Marriott Corporation Logo.jpg

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Ankur Nagpal (August 1)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Aviram7 was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Ankur Nagpal and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

--- ᗩvírαm7 • (@píng mє-tαlk mє) 16:27, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Hello, CNMall41! Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! --- ᗩvírαm7 • (@píng mє-tαlk mє) 16:27, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

@Aviram7:, good call on this. I was on the fence which is why I sent it to AfC as opposed to the mainspace. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:13, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

August 2024

Hello, I'm LR.127. I noticed that you recently removed content from Prema Entha Madhuram without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. I agree that the plot summaries are too long, but I don't think boldly deleting a chunk of it is the solution. LR.127 (talk) 06:29, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

@LR.127:, Was adequately explained in the edit summary. Should you wish to restore, please use WP:ONUS. Also, please see WP:DTR. --CNMall41 (talk) 06:31, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Understood - appreciate it. Opened a talk page post at Talk:Prema Entha Madhuram. LR.127 (talk) 06:54, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

I would also advise reading WP:ONUS as restoring the content without consensus can be considered edit warring. --CNMall41 (talk) 07:34, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Update Needed for ONENESS (film) Wikipedia Article.

Dear @CNMall41,

I hope this message finds you well. I noticed that you recently made some edits to the Wikipedia article on the Manipuri film ONENESS. I wanted to bring to your attention a recent development regarding the film that should be reflected in the article.

ONENESS was officially selected for the KASHISH Pride Film Festival 2024 in Mumbai, which is South Asia's biggest queer film festival. The film made its world premiere at this festival on May 17, 2024. This premiere has been covered by several reliable sources including Northeast Now [15], The Sangai Express [16][17], The Times Of India [18], Mid-Day India [19], and Elle India.

For your reference, here is the link to the official selection list on the festival's website: KASHISH Pride Film Festival 2024 Selection List. [20]

In light of this information, I believe it is important to update the film's year from "an upcoming 2023" to "a 2024 film" in the Wikipedia article. The film’s year is typically determined by its initial release date, and the world premiere at KASHISH establishes ONENESS as a 2024 film.

Additionally, as mentioned in your recent edits, I haven't mentioned any source from East Mojo. The reliable sources I have provided should be considered for updating the article.

Thank you for your attention to this matter and for your ongoing contributions to Wikipedia. Manipuri Mirror (talk) 21:07, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Given the history, I would not be inclined to assist. You are still free to edit but keep in mind anything added that does not adhere to guidelines will be removed. --CNMall41 (talk) 21:12, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

You also have a history of adding unreliable sources to pages. I would ask that you stop. --CNMall41 (talk) 21:14, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

I want to clarify that any use of publications like East Mojo and Borok Times was purely unintentional and aimed at contributing to Manipuri Cinema. Upon realizing their unreliability, I have promptly ceased using them as sources. I am committed to maintaining high standards of accuracy and reliability in my work, and I appreciate your support in this regard. Manipuri Mirror (talk) 21:30, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

To clarify, you are still adding unreliable sources AFTER you became aware of the others. You need to use this as your guide. --CNMall41 (talk) 21:35, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Even today. This particular TOI piece falls under NEWSORGINDIA based on a recent RSN discussion. --CNMall41 (talk) 21:36, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for providing this information.Wikipedia:WikiProject Film/Indian cinema task force#Guidelines on sources

I will take this into account moving forward. Manipuri Mirror (talk) 21:45, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

This is also a blog and not reliable. I will be removing the 500+ links that have been used in Wikipedia. --CNMall41 (talk) 08:17, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Splitting content you did not create

Hello. I notice that you split off the discography of Teddy Swims to Teddy Swims discography. I'm not sure if you're aware, but copying content you did not create within Wikipedia requires attribution. It should be noted in an edit summary that you copied the content from another article, and/or on the article talk page. Please remember this in future. Also, just a note, I don't see why you didn't just copy the content on top of the redirect I already made for Teddy Swims discography—as none of it was your content, I don't see why it required you to be the article "creator" or to be worked on as a draft in your userspace first, but whatever. Ss112 17:28, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

@Ss112:, No editor actually owns the content, but you are correct about attribution. This was an error on my part. You can see here and here that I normally place the attribution but forgot to in this instance. Thanks for the heads up. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:59, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

I am also thinking, if this is about giving someone credit, there is a way to have it deleted and then moved back if you copy and paste the information to your userspace. I don't really care about numbers or being credited so feel free to do as you wish. I only split because it was getting too long for the current page. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:12, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Baronage of Scotland

Hello again, as requested I'm writing to you here. Could you please help setting up a community project page for the Baronage of Scotland similar to Wikipedia:WikiProject Clans of Scotland

As there are 350-400 baronies all needing dedicated pages. I can help compile the histories but this will require a lot of help. Kellycrak88 (talk) 22:14, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Absolutely. Let me take a closer look after the weekend as I will be in and out. Cheers!--CNMall41 (talk) 22:34, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

@Kellycrak88:I looked at this closer and it appears you want to create a new WikiProject is that correct? If so, that would not be in my wheelhouse. I WILL help create pages for the barons if you would like as new page creation is something I enjoy. If you want to send me a list of a few to get started I will do that later this week. Cheers!--CNMall41 (talk) 18:50, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Creating a page for Baron of the Bachuil would be a good one to start with.

http://www.clanlivingstone.info/Chief.htm

https://web.archive.org/web/20160303205638/http://www.baronage.co.uk/2006a/Bachuil.pdf

Bloodline dates to 6c. He is viewed as a "sovereign lord" by the Lord Lyon. Premier baron predates Kingdom of Scotland (and Kings of Scots) in his passport like the King before name By The Grace Of God

By The Grace Of God, The Much Hon. Niall Livingston of Bachuil, Baron of the Bachuil, Coarb of St Moluag, Abbot of Lismore, Head of clan MacLea Kellycrak88 (talk) 20:57, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

One of the oldest baronies in Scotland, the Barony of the Bachuil, has not depended on land ownership for centuries; the barony passes along with the possession of a certain ancient stick, "The Bachuil Mór", which was once the bishop's staff of Saint Moluag in the year 562. Unlike all other barons in Scotland, the lawful possessor of the stick is the Baron of the Bachuil, regardless of landholdings. Kellycrak88 (talk) 20:58, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. That would be a good start. I will get a draft started in my userspace and feel free to work on it if you like as well. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:58, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

hi @CNMall41 how are you getting on? what's the link to your userspace? ) Kellycrak88 (talk) 09:40, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Stand with you!

Hello, I hope you're doing well. I'm Youknowwhoistheman, and I'm also fine. Recently, I noticed that someone (A wiki user) made a very disturbing allegation against you without any proof any evidence. As a senior Wikipedia editor, you deserve to be treated with respect, and it's disappointing that this user behaved in such a way. It seems the allegation was based on the fact that you nominated two of their articles for AFD. This is unacceptable, and I want you to know that I fully support you. If there's anything I can do to help, please don't hesitate to reach out. Thank you! Youknow? (talk) 06:22, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

I’ve proposed a Boomerang T/ban against the complainant. I understand that attacks like these are common when you’re involved in patrolling pages and holding UPEs accountable, as I’ve witnessed firsthand over the past several months. Unfortunately, it seems these issues are unlikely to stop anytime soon and we should brace ourselves for the worst to come. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 11:34, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

KrishtheWriter

Although he is a sock spamming links, the site must not be blacklisted. Only he must. Kailash29792 (talk) 06:28, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

@Kailash29792: We are on the same page. I think this is more of a case of someone trying to promote a specific article in that publication than the publication itself trying to spam. For the record, I would never request blacklisting for something like this. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:31, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:Stacii Jae Johnson

Hello, CNMall41. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Stacii Jae Johnson, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 04:05, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:AZB and Partners logo.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Life Storage logo.png

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Thanks for uploading File:Life Storage logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:34, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Response to WP:NEWSORGINDIA Concerns

Thank you for your feedback. I have addressed the concerns regarding the references and notability on the draft titled Draft:Vaibhav_Palhade. I have replaced or supplemented the previous sources with more independent and reliable references that do not fall under WP:NEWSORGINDIA. Additionally, I have reviewed and made the necessary adjustments to comply with WP:COI and WP:PAID, ensuring proper disclosure where applicable. The updated draft now includes more in-depth coverage of Vaibhav Palhade's work and impact. Please consider this revised version for review. Thank you! Ballal2003 (talk) 10:42, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Response to WP:NWRITER Concerns

Thank you for pointing out the concerns regarding WP:NWRITER on the draft titled Draft:Vaibhav_Palhade. I've reviewed the criteria and made the necessary adjustments to the article to clearly establish how Vaibhav Palhade meets the notability requirements. The updates include more detailed coverage of his significant works and additional reliable sources that highlight his impact as a writer. I believe this now aligns with the guidelines. Please consider this when reviewing the resubmission. Thank you! Ballal2003 (talk) 10:48, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hi CNMall41. Thank you for your work on Don Stover. Another editor, North8000, has reviewed it as part of new pages patrol and left the following comment:

Nice work

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|North8000}}. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

North8000 (talk) 19:54, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Doubt regarding Ayeza Khan Article

Hi, CNMall41 actually yesterday I had edited Ayeza Khan's article in Television section and I had added a new scope row as Network that I had added because she acted more than 20 dramas so, that why I had added to Identify the Dramas she acted in this particular channel other than that, I had not added for promoting Channels. Meanwhile I'm still lacking in editing please kindly, help me Thank You. Nayab Shareyar (talk) 05:43, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Please see WP:CIR. The edit summaries said everything you needed to know. Also familiarize yourself with WP:ONUS which was previously told to you. If you want to restore promotional content, it is up to you to get consensus for it. --CNMall41 (talk) 21:30, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Question on draft you looked at!

Hello! I was hoping to discuss a draft you looked at recently that I'm working on. I believe strongly that Danial fits the notable criteria listed for chess players, specifically point 3 stating, "Has won a national or continental championship or women's championship." as he's won all 3 major scholastic national tournaments and the North American U-20 Championship.

The current reason for submission decline is around significant coverage. Below I've linked 4 concrete sources from 2 established newspapers that cover Danial. While I understand they come from newspapers in Santa Monica, I'd like to postulate that they fit within reliable, secondary sources, and are reasonable given there isn't a great deal of chess coverage in the major papers.

1. https://smdp.com/2021/01/09/samohi-alumnus-goes-for-grandmaster/

2. https://smdp.com/2020/06/29/local-beats-grandmaster-to-win-national-chess-tournament/

3. https://smdp.com/2016/05/20/local-student-wins-national-chess-title/

4. https://www.surfsantamonica.com/ssm_site/the_lookout/news/News-2016/January-2016/01_26_2016_Santa_Monica_Student_Is_National_Chess_Champ.html

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts and if this would suffice for coverage. Thank you! BenJohnson7 (talk) 03:25, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

@DoubleGrazing: here so that there are not two discussions. I see you left a note on their talk page as well. Note that the criteria you cited says "likely to be notable [emphasis added]." It does not say that they are notable. Unfortunately, I still feel that the local coverage is not enough to show notability. --CNMall41 (talk) 03:59, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @CNMall41.

@BenJohnson7: as CNMall41 says, the WP:NCHESS guideline makes notability conditional on satisfying the WP:GNG standard. It then goes on to say that it is likely that a player satisfies that standard, if they meet one of the eight criteria, but meeting them does not in and of itself establish notability.

Also, I'm no expert in this subject matter, but isn't it true that the American Open is different from the US Open? And according to the U.S. Open Chess Championship article, even winning that only qualifies the player for the US Chess Championship, which actually determines the national championship. So if my reasoning is correct, (co-)victory of the American Open wouldn't actually appear to satisfy NCHESS #3. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 06:06, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

Reverting edits on Chanchal Chowdhury

Hello CNMall41, you recently reverted a few of my edits on Chanchal Chowdhury citing unreliability of sources, that were The Daily Star, The Business Standard and The Times of India, even though all three websites are used frequently on high profile biographical articles, like Sheikh Hasina and Shakib Khan. Could you please briefly explain what was actually the problem with these citations:

1. https://www.thedailystar.net/entertainment/tv-film/news/8-successful-films-the-last-12-years-3141061

2. https://www.tbsnews.net/splash/karagar-2-does-not-live-hype-naufel-nails-it-560650

3. https://www.thedailystar.net/entertainment/tv-film/news/pm-honours-cinematic-excellence-national-film-awards-2022-3469661

These are two more PDF links I used to mention the major awards won by the subject:

1. http://www.fdc.gov.bd/sites/default/files/files/fdc.portal.gov.bd/page/bb7b3294_ac88_4651_b882_cc8574bf1926/National%20Award1975-2012%20(1).pdf 2. http://www.fdc.gov.bd/sites/default/files/files/fdc.portal.gov.bd/page/5522af95_ad4f_4bdd_8b5e_0252a70b9906/2020-01-26-12-25-60489983f0bfcb1243189c31a3bcd982.pdf

These PDFs were published by organiser BFDC and have already been used on this page to enlist the annual award winners. You removed them too. Kindly explain. LivingLife1976 (talk) 11:27, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Just because a publication is reliable does not mean every article in that publication is reliable. See WP:NEWSORGINDIA. None of the ones you cited have bylines. --CNMall41 (talk) 14:49, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

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Could you take a look at Draft:Sandbox Festival again please

hello @CNMall41 trust you are doing ok could you please take a look at this draft again i added 2 more reliable source Sandbox Festival i could find online. Afro 📢Talk! 17:39, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

@Afrowriter:, thanks for the message. I looked and they are not reliable. The references added are blogs and have no editorial oversight. It is not about the quantity of references, but the quality of the references. At this time, Time Out seems to be the only publication that could be used as a reliable source for notability. Are there any other reliable sources similar? If so let me know and I will take another look. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:17, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

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Put it back Draft:Max Nardari

Hallo there is a new movie coming out I would like to change the draft. Could you help me to put it back after deleting page to abandoned draft? Corrections will also be made. Thank you Igreo (talk) 10:22, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

@Igreo:, I have no clue what you are asking about. You will need to be clear on your request. --CNMall41 (talk) 22:02, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Removal of Descriptors from Ponni

As most of the television serials have a short description of their character apart from the relationships. For instance please look into Thirumathi Selvam, Thamizhum Saraswathiyum, Siragadikka Aasai and a few more to mention. Will it be enough to only include their character role and their primary relationships? If yes, then descriptions from similar such serial pages also need to be removed? Do clarify in this regard Gowthamaprabu (talk) 18:45, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

See WP:OSE. You are correct that the other pages need the information removed as well. I can do it if you choose not to. --CNMall41 (talk) 03:22, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Please do proceed, so that I myself would refrain from not adding any such descriptions to the characters Gowthamaprabu (talk) 03:26, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

I am sorry, but them not being removed from other pages is not a requirement for you to stop doing it. Again, as stated on your talk page, I believe that this is a WP:CIR issue at this point. You need to follow policies and guidelines. --CNMall41 (talk) 03:28, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

I would also like to clarify that i didn't mean to continue to add such irrelevant data, but to put to your notice about the existence of such, already in similar pages. Thanks Gowthamaprabu (talk) 03:34, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Based on the numerous warnings left and discussion on your talk page, I would hope you do not add these back. It would result in your conduct being reported at WP:ANI. --CNMall41 (talk) 03:36, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

I've already explained my stand of not adding the data after you removed it from the Siragadikka Aasai and Ponni pages. Gowthamaprabu (talk) 03:40, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

You may have explained it but not in a way that is policy-based. At this point, there is nothing further I can assist you with. Do as you will but keep in mind that ANI would be the appropriate venue should you continue to edit in the manner in which you have been. There is also no longer a reason for you to respond here so please don't. --CNMall41 (talk) 03:41, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Rejection of Naveen Tewari page

Hi! I saw that you recently rejected a "Naveen Tewari" page citing that the subject is not notable. All the references, even about the ventures clearly speak about Naveen. So, while half the citations are about Naveen directly, the other half talk about him (and not just his ventures). Would like to understand the reason for rejection in that context. Is there a way to improve this?

Also, Wiki writing is a passion for me. Had consulted user UtherSRG before editing the draft. Have no commercial interest. Just wanted to fix the page. I don't understand why the warning and why am not able to submit again? Please advise. NS1811 (talk) 04:58, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

You did not consult with that user. You requested undeletion of the page and they informed you that you needed community consensus. Forgive my cynicism but based on the nine deletions and attempts by other SPA accounts, it is hard for me to WP:AGF that you have no interest here. Maybe the first thing you should do is clean up the promotional tone of the page. --CNMall41 (talk) 05:03, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

I completely understand the cynicism. I would be cynical too. I was actually looking to link Naveen Tewari from another page. Saw that the page was not there. Tried creating a new page. Saw the mess that had been created. Contacted the last user who had deleted the page and that user suggested resubmitting through the review process. So, I spent around 6 hours fixing it yesterday. Would hate for my effort to have been wasted. I would surely heed the feedback and work on improving it but the notice says that I cannot resubmit, which is a little disappointing. NS1811 (talk) 05:35, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

So again, I am not really believing that you came to Wikipedia and with fewer than 100 edits came across a page that has been bludgeoned into Wikipedia and deleted and then made a single edit of that size without having some type of connection. You are free to work on the draft but I feel that unless you can show how this subject has become notable since the last deletion your efforts will be wasted. And again, it reads like an advertisement or promotional resume for the individual which is the FIRST mistake that was made prior to submission. --CNMall41 (talk) 05:44, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

And again, I do understand the cynicism. But I have been around since 2017. Every now and then when I get time, I get active on Wiki and try to contribute. I have a full time career, so I am not an active contributor. For context, I had created an awards page for a civilian honor and Naveen was one of the two recipients. While I could easily link the other person, the page for Naveen didn't exist. That's how I came across this page. As has happened previously, I will fade into the sunset soon enough, having made my efforts to improve Wiki. Till then, any guidance and support will be appreciated. NS1811 (talk) 05:52, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Creating an account in 2017 does not make you an experienced editor. I also do not think the award page is notable as there are only two recipients?? I will check closer later. Also, I provided you with guidance above so not sure what else I can assist with.

Request for more specific feedback on Draft: Kagi (payment provider)

Hey CNMall41, Thanks for taking the time to review my article submission. I saw the feedback boxes you gave me about WP: NCORP and WP: ADMASQ. I just wanted to quickly ask for a few more specifics, so I can improve the article and make sure it meets Wikipedia’s standards.

I based much of the article on two main sources, MacRumors and TidBITS, which I understood to be respected, independent outlets that align with Wikipedia’s definition of good sources. Both articles were in-depth pieces specifically about the company's bankruptcy and history. Both are secondary sources with no link to the founders (as far as I can tell, please do let me know if I'm missing something).

Both sources have established themselves as reliable and trustworthy on Wikipedia.

However, I’m open to the possibility that I may have missed something or misinterpreted how these sources are evaluated. As well, would it be possible for you to provide a bit more specific feedback on which parts of the article seemed to sound like an advertisement and whether certain sources were problematic?

I’m genuinely aiming to make the article neutral and properly referenced, and any additional guidance would be greatly appreciated.

I've been having trouble trying to find a reliable compendium of facts on what this company actually offered, all on one page, hence the kinda... sporadic sourcing in the services section.

I completely understand that your time is valuable, and I don’t want to impose or demand a response. I would just like to ensure that I’m improving the submission in the most effective way possible.

Thanks again for your time and consideration. Titfortat-skag (talk) 19:31, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Those sources are considered reliable for a WikiProject, not for notability. We based things on WP:NCORP and you can find a list of reliable sources at WP:RSP which should assist you. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:40, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Stuart Kinder

Would you be able to help with this draft that was not approved? FloridaArmy (talk) 03:03, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

This is a tough one depending on how you read WP:NFILMMAKER. If you read "is notable" (meaning it just needs to verify they were one of the roles listed, then he is likely notable. I can find sources verifying but always like to see something that talks more about him in-depth. --CNMall41 (talk) 03:59, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Your are spam

Zee tamil edit you have changed iis correct information and reference with source of popular articles and you are deleted I have no problem you will get serious problem I will report and information are deleted Zee telugu old serial name also deleted why it is also referred from channel past one week In zee keralam Madhura Nombara Kaatu is official remake of na kodhalu Bangaram serial not remake of peranbu I have referred all and you are deleted I will report Be ready for every thing Arun GKA (talk) 06:40, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) I would consider this to be some kind of threat, except that it is barely intelligible. BD2412 T 12:17, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

@BD2412:, if you look here you can see that user is definitely WP:NOTHERE. Is there enough for a block or would you recommend ANI? --CNMall41 (talk) 20:41, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Actually, I just went ARV as they continue to disruptively edit pages. I'm doing a mass revert now. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:43, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

I think there is a WP:COMPETENCE issue here as well. BD2412 T 21:06, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

And a possible SPI issue. I have connected at least two accounts but gathering more before filing for CU. --CNMall41 (talk) 21:08, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

The editor has been blocked for two weeks. If they're sockpuppeting, I would expect them to move to another new account and continue this behavior. BD2412 T 21:31, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Stacii Jae Johnson

Hello, CNMall41. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or draft page you started, "Stacii Jae Johnson".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:09, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Powers Picture Plays

Would you be able to help with this declined draft? FloridaArmy (talk) 12:40, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

@FloridaArmy:, Do you have access to Newspapers.com by chance? I will take a look now but that site has always helped with drafts and pages such as these. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:03, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Disagreements!

Ha! I don't know about you but I would much rather disagree with an experienced respected editor than having to battle a UPE/sock (or a hoard of them). S0091 (talk) 19:18, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Of course. I never mind disagreeing. Its Wikipedia. Seems to be an issue for some at the moment (not you) who want to assist UPE and argue for the sake of arguing. Puzzling but it is what it is. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:42, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

I think it's more arguing for the sake of it rather than assisting UPE, though that might be the effect. Some editors could care less about UPE (including AfC/NPP reviewers), which I get if the article meets N or at least close-ish (enough for a valid argument) but, like you, that's not what I seeing with some these AfDs and worse to me not engaging in discussion which is the purpose of an AfD (i.e. this is my opinion and I am not going to address any questions/explain how sources meet the guidelines so disengaging but let me bold/ all caps things on my way out). If you are not willing/able to engage and think you need to bold/caps things then you are not doing a good job explaining your position, in my view. S0091 (talk) 20:20, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

I believe you hit the nail on the head ("arguing for the sake of it rather than assisting UPE). Pushing aside UPE concerns for the sake of "need to be right" is how I would put it. The "assisting" is just a byproduct of it I guess. I get the bold and not discussing as well. Frustrating, especially when a closer will sometimes look at number of keep or delete votes from experienced editors and not always at the rationale behind those votes. I have been seeing a lot of keep or delete votes that I ask for clarification on with no response. And for the record, I think you and I agree on the validity of the sources for this page in particular. I believe the disagreement is coming with how much weight they have towards notability which is always a good discussion to have. --CNMall41 (talk) 21:45, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

You've got mail

Hello, CNMall41. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template. W170924 (talk) 17:42, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Left a message on your talk page. --CNMall41 (talk) 23:25, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Mor Chhainha Bhuinya 2

hi CNMall41 (talk) as i said earlier i checked

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Film/Indian_cinema_task_force#Guidelines_on_sources i can confirm once again that 'News18 India by Network18 Group' has a 'green tick' meaning its legit and once again 'times of india' is marked 'no conconsensus', Bonadart (talk) 17:32, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

@Bonadart:, frankly, I am a little tired of explaining it as I have several times in the AfD, on the talk page, and in the edit summaries. See WP:NEWSORGINDIA. A green tick means the publication itself is reliable, but NOT ALL THE CONTENT from that publication. Restore again and I will need to take it to ANI. Seems to be a WP:CIR issue at this point and is getting ad nauseam. Get consensus or stop. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:39, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

hi i get ypur point but try to understand my point, when it now known the source is reliable, NOT ALL THE CONTENT can be reliable is a fact too, everyone makes mistakes even rueters or bbc make mistake which is they run disclaimer on veracity of content. i rest my point Bonadart (talk) 18:47, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Again, WP:CIR. It is not my "point." It is part of Wikipedia's guidelines and policies. As stated on your talk page, these conversations also need to stay in their perspective places. The fact you replied here shows again that you are having issues grasping working in a collaborative environment. Please keep the discussion in one place as stated on your talk page. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:55, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Concern regarding User:Aoceall/sandbox

Hello, CNMall41. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that User:Aoceall/sandbox, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 22:06, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Not mine. Was actually an AfC move to Draft:Adam Ó Ceallaigh. --CNMall41 (talk) 22:54, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:Angela Bonavoglia

Hello, CNMall41. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Angela Bonavoglia, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 00:06, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Published Angela Bonavoglia

Hi, CNMall41! Thank you for creating a draft article for Angela Bonavoglia! I came across the article after you nominated it for deletion because you couldn't find enough sources to established notability. Generally, per Wikipedia's notability guidelines for authors, if an author has had at least two books reviewed in reliable sources, the author themself is considered notable. Because I was able to find book reviews for Bonavoglia's other book, I went ahead published the article. If you would still prefer to blank and redirect to the book, however, I would completely understand. :) Take care, Significa liberdade (she/her) (talk) 01:12, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

@Significa liberdade:, No complaints here. I will let it be. I actually created the original in userspace and was attempting to find significant coverage to make it live. I couldn't so sent it to draft six months ago so others could improve if they wished and you can see the notice above was for it to get deleted as an abandoned draft (which is why I just requested the deletion). We may disagree about WP:NAUTHOR as I am shy about calling something "significant" under that guideline just because it has a Wikipedia page. That was also why I held off on publishing it because there wasn't really anything to make an article more than a stub. Hopefully she will have more press in the future to be able to build upon the page (I even scavenged what I could from Newspapers.com). Either way, like I said, no complaints. Cheers!!--CNMall41 (talk) 01:29, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

WP:NEWSORGINDIA

Heya. I concur with your view on eliminating the use of paid-news reporting that's rampant in the Indian media. However, WP:NEWSORGINDIA should not be used as a blanket reasoning to tag/delete articles that uses sources such TOI, HIndustan Times, India Today, etc. If such sources are being used for problematic inclusions, such as puffing up or putting down a film or actor, then I'd agree with such tags, but if they are being used to mention neutral information, such as a release date or an actor's casting, then there shouldn't be a problem. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 10:59, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. These sources also contain things such as budget, gross, and fluff which are being supplied by those with an interest in the film. As such, I don't see any information from them as being reliable (it is basically what THEY want you to know about the film and not what a reliable secondary source says about it). I try to find replacements for some but if the majority of the sources are paid, I tag and allow others more familiar with the film to replace them. I find this better than stripping them or removing content if I cannot find a suitable source. I believe the WP:ONUS for using these sources is on the person who presents them and I only tag a select few relative to the number that are out there. As far as notability, if a draft is only supported by them, I normally send to draft as an WP:ATD. If I look and cannot find sources that show notability, then AfD (sometimes redirect but IPs and SPAs with COIs are always removing them - likely so they can get paid). Hopefully that explains my reasoning but happy to discuss further. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:05, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

@Krimuk2.0:, on a side note, I just saw the revert made at List of films released by Yash Raj Films. This would also fall under ONUS in my opinion but sounds like there is a technical issue possibly on my end so I won't revert (thanks for leaving that in the edit summary otherwise I would have thought otherwise). Can you take a quick look on mobile and see if there are issues? I see all of the images and have to scroll before I get to the actually filmography. I will check on laptop later as it is likely due to the resolution of my desktop. On a side note of this side note lol, if you check the edit history, you will see what I try to do for replacement of NEWSORGINDIA as I think there were about 10 sources that I replaced on the page at the same time I removed the images. I think blanket tagging is lazy so I try to avoid it when I can. Thanks and cheers!!--CNMall41 (talk) 19:14, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Oh yes, I should absolutely thank you for the ref changes on the Yash Raj Film listicle, and I apologise for not saying that earlier in my message. I think, yes, on mobile, the images aren't adjoining to the table, but they are perfectly placed on desktop. That's a technical restriction ig due to screen size, and I'm not sure if we cater to one over the other.

As for the NEWSORGINDIA sources, I always revert info such as budget or gross if they are from such sources, but I still feel that neutral info such as release dates, filming locations, song names and credits, should be used without problem. We just have to be more careful about what is and isn't paid journalism, and that is a contentious issue without a clear-cut answer. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 06:23, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

@Krimuk2.0:, no thanks necessary. I just wanted to make sure you knew I'm not just out there bludgeoning pages, which a few have made veiled accusations of prejudice against me simply for me focusing on spam and UPE coming out of a specific region. I would actually like to focus on improving a lot of the pages but keeping up with the UPE and spam has been a chore in itself. Starting to make a little headway which allows me to do more of what I was doing with Yash Raj Films.

As far as referencing, I think we are on the same page (or at least in the same chapter). I just put it on the editor who introduces the reference to show how it is reliable as more times that not, it is not. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:30, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

I should note that if anyone questions if the NEWSORGINDIA sources are paid for not, simply go to Upwork or Fiverr, create and account, and do a search for some of the publications. It is so simple to get anything printed with these pubs. Or, just contact one of these firms and they will do it for you. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:34, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

I just checked images on my laptop and they show as you stated (just fine). Checking on my desktop they bleed until the bottom of the references list. Checking cell phone, they take up all the space at the beginning and you have to scroll to the end to see the list of films. You are correct there is no standard for what we use based on devices. Very confusing for some however depending on where they are viewing from. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:19, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Yea, understandable. Btw, on a note related to our previous discussion on sourcing, could you check out the edits made by Bonadart on the film Bhool Bhulaiyaa 3. Not only are they prone to using poor sources and tabloid-y lingo, they are also quick to edit-war when reverted. I've taken the liberty of adding tags to individual sections. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 08:04, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

hi Krimuk2.0 (talk)

AFAIK it was you yourself who had first added co- in front of written and directed, implying anees bazmee as co-writer. i just added source as such to substantiate it. I just gave credit to Akash Kaushik as co-writer. how is it problematic i dont know. Bonadart (talk) 08:11, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

@Krimuk2.0:, I will take a look now. @Bonadart:, you are a hair away from WP:ANI. You have already ventured into WP:TE territory as your WP:NOTGETTINGIT is becoming disruptive to other's enjoyment of editing Wikipdia. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:29, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Looking at the "Development" section, the wording is all WP:OR. An example is that neither reference (one of which is unreliable under NEWSORGINDIA) says nothing about a T-Series release or when the official announcement was. There is a caption on a pic that shows T-Series owns that pic copyright, but nothing about them releasing. The other source says that T-Series has agreed to do part 5 (two films from now assuming that actually goes into product - maybe 2026???), but not part 3. I wouldn't waste time going through the rest. This one would be suitable to be sent back to draft space until someone can ensure accuracy. Bonadart, I would recommend you doing so and then sending through AfC. If not, I would be more than happy to do so. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:40, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

They have restored the same tabloid-y lingo and MoS issues to that article soon after I corrected them. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 07:46, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

@Krimuk2.0:, given the edit history over the last 24 hours from newly created accounts and the failure of the creator to respond (despite being swift to respond to their own inquiries), I moved to draft. The WP:FAKEREFerences are still present and it raises eyebrows about newly created accounts who go direct to this page to edit. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:16, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Had to move it to Draft:Bhool Bhulaiyaa 3 2 as Draft:Bhool Bhulaiyaa 3 already exists from earlier this year. Note that the IPs who edited both are in the same range so filing an WP:SPI now. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:19, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

hi CNMall41 (talk) i dont know what was your confusion about was it is being produced then here is the proof that says T-Aseries has produced the film and it is being released by AA films (as part of 3 film deal) and when it was officially announced

1. https://www.hindustantimes.com/entertainment/bollywood/bhool-bhulaiyaa-3-teaser-vidya-balan-as-manjulika-returns-angrier-than-ever-kartik-aaryan-romances-triptii-dimri-101727421546033.html

2. https://www.pinkvilla.com/entertainment/exclusives/exclusive-buzz-devara-bhool-bhulaiyaa-3-and-pushpa-2-single-screens-booking-begin-1328231

3. https://www.indiatoday.in/movies/bollywood/story/rooh-baba-returns-kartik-aaryan-announces-bhool-bhulaiyaa-3-with-spooky-video-watch-2341318-2023-03-01

its all present in the page itself yet you say you need clarity, what more clarity i can give?

i hope you get it back on main space ASAP after this reply btw as for cleanup I have always tried to keep the page proper any wrong or unsubstaited additions were trimmed. I don't like wholesale removal always. wikipedia is for information lets keep it at that.

Bonadart (talk) 19:55, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to reply despite continue to edit the page prior. Excuse my brash response but this is getting tiring at this point. What confusion is there? You tell me the confusion as it still seems to be a WP:CIR issue. If you would like, I can go to the draft and strip what needs stripping but I do not want to be accused of bludgeoning so will leave for others to address. At this point I cannot assist you as it has pretty much drained my enjoyment of editing Wikipedia. The references you used on the actual page do NOT support the statement. If the references above do, then those should have been used. Do as you will but understand if you continue to edit in the manner you are it will need addressed by the community. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:01, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

As i said the references are already on the page and links were uploaded and content created by me Bonadart (talk) 20:06, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Please reply inline as opposed to this as it gets confusing for anyone following the thread. Wikipedia is based on sourcing, it is not a repository of information that we want it to say. At this point, there is no need for you to comment on my talk page further. Any conduct issues should be continued on the original thread on your talk page (where it was also previously stated to have these discussions but you have ignored). --CNMall41 (talk) 20:07, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi once again i will say everything here is coroborated with sources, any weak sources have been supported and added with better sources, that is all i can say. thanksBonadart (talk) 20:15, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Once again, I will say there is no need for you to reply here. We can keep conduct on your talk page and you can discuss the referencing on the draft talk page. Let me be clear. Do NOT leave another message on my talk page. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:16, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

@Krimuk2.0:, creator moved back to mainspace without addressing the issues. I started to but since I filed an SPI, I will not edit further as I don't want it to seem as bludgeoning. Will wait for SPI results and would recommend ANI if it persists. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:27, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

It's impossibly difficult maintaining the quality of these pages, especially with little admin support. I don't think deleting or moving pages to drafts is the answer though. Our main purpose is to serve our readers, a lot of whom will visit pages of such an anticipated upcoming film. But we definitely need stronger protection from admins to do so. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 06:22, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

We do need more support, mainly from SPI, but they are stretched thin so I understand they don't have the time. I think more support from other editors would be helpful. Like I said above, there are some who seem to want to undo all of the edits of G5's and other things that have been done to discourage UPE and COI which in the end only serves as a service to the agencies paying. I don't think we do a service to our readers by allowing that work to continue. --CNMall41 (talk) 16:38, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Heya, so I gave the Bhool Bhulaiyaa 3 article a copy-edit to remove the problematic tabloid lingo. Since you added the tag on "original research", could you point out specific instances of that so I can fix those issues? Krimuk2.0 (talk) 06:30, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

@Krimuk2.0: I would need to go through everything again but if I did I would likely pair the article down quite a bit so I won't. If you have checked the references and are comfortable that the original research is addressed, you can always remove the tag. No objections from me. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:20, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi. Glad to see you again

Hello! It's great to see you again after a long time. I'm back temporarily and wanted to discuss the possibility of bringing back article on Jishnu Raghavan. I noticed that the sockpuppeting issue persists, but setting that aside, Jishnu was a notable Malayalam film actor who clearly meets our notability criteria. Could you guide me on the proper procedure to restore the article? Thilsebatti (talk) 06:43, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

I'll pass. Forgive my cynicism, but you came back around the same period this was G5'd (a few days ago) after being recreated yet again (around 10 times in the last year now) but under another alternative name. Leaving the link here to the SPI and name variations for talk page watchers. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:11, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

From January to September, my contributions totaled less than 150 edits due to eight months of hectic travel. But before that for a period of 16 months, I have made a total of 14000 edits with more than 200 articles created as well. Now that I have some spare time for a few weeks, I wanted to work on a notable topic. Thanks. Thilsebatti (talk) 05:43, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, but these UPEs and SOCKs have wasted so much time of editors such as myself and taken away from the enjoyment of editing that I am NOT willing to assist. I will continue to watch the targets and ensure the integrity of Wikipedia whether that be from SOCKS, UPEs, NPOV, Referencing and any other guidelines that would apply to its recreation. It is also disheartening that you are willing to assist them in the name of what you feel is a "notable topic." Hours of my enjoyment stripped away from myself along with admins and other editors of English Wikipedia, Simple English Wikipedia, Wikimedia Commons and numerous other language Wikipedias. Not trying to be insulting, but I mean this in the most disrespectful way when I say I appreciate it.--CNMall41 (talk) 16:42, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

I'm only disappointed when you said It is also disheartening that you are willing to assist them in the name of what you feel is a "notable topic. I'm in no way assisting these sockfarms. My only purpose is to serve readers. The actor was a well known figure in my state and he easily passes our notability guidelines. This kind of reaction from an experienced editor from you is very disheartening for me as well. After all I was only trying to improve the site. But you are taking into a different direction. Thilsebatti (talk) 16:52, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

If you take into account that experienced editors myself are frustrated and will likely leave Wikipedia if this type of conduct continues, you will no longer be able to serve the readers. And yes, they are being assisted. Not directly, but they receive a direct benefit from the slap in the face this gives other editors. Not taking anything in a different direction. You started the ball down the road. The canvassing of other editors is not good either. Final note, be aware of WP:NEWSORGINDIA which I left a note about on the decline of the draft. No need to come back here as I cannot do anything else for you. --CNMall41 (talk) 16:55, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

One final message and I'm leaving. I have done no canvassing and don't accuse someone without any reason. Now I will leave from this talk page. Thanks Thilsebatti (talk) 17:08, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

I would also recommend NOT canvassing, but do as you will. --CNMall41 (talk) 16:47, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Can you please point me one instance where I did canvassing? Thilsebatti (talk) 16:53, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Sure, I will give you one, two, three. As far as the first link, if you have an issue with my conduct, I would suggest taking it to ANI as opposed to complaining to one of the editors you are looking for support from. ALSO - Despite the message on the draft and pointing it out here, you continue to add WP:NEWSORGINDIA to the draft. I can't even at this point......--CNMall41 (talk) 17:15, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Canvassing refers to notification done with the intention of influencing the outcome of a discussion in a particular way, and is considered inappropriate. I just asked DreamRimmer whether they know some admins who does AFC reviewing. I just asked Tavantius why they declined the draft. If these two seems canvassing for you, I have no words. I wanted to stop previously. I hope this can be my last message here. Thilsebatti (talk) 17:27, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

To clarify, this will be your last message here. You were told there is no need to comment here. If you have an issue with the draft, use that talk page. If you have an issue with my conduct, go to ANI. Replying here is, again, taking the fun out of editing Wikipedia as I have to continue to reply about a subject that has already drained quite a few editors. Do as you will, but do not do it here. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:29, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Index draft

Hi user:CNMall41, this is Kelsey from Index Ventures, where we've gone back and forth about the draft you put together for the article here: Talk:Index_Ventures#Partners_section_edit_request. Sorry to bother you, but I just wanted to ask if you had the time to implement your draft into the article. Thank you again for all the attention you've given to the article; it is extremely appreciated! Kelsey at Index (talk) 18:14, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

@Kelsey at Index:, the edits were just implemented. I also removed the COI tag from the top and appreciate you following the process. I would suggest closing out the current requests you have and then using whatever remained from those requests which was NOT implemented and start a new request. That way editors are not confused with what still needs implemented. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:36, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much for removing the tag, implementing the draft, and providing clear steps for future requests! Kelsey at Index (talk) 19:03, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Mangal Lakshmi Tv

Adit is Adult, so Why does Adit still Refuse to Get Simple Divorce with his Wife Mangal etc?(49.205.116.244 (talk) 14:00, 9 October 2024 (UTC)).

For Bigg Boss 18

i just want to ask you a question can I get any punishment for my editing or creating Bigg Boss 18 article 2000editor (talk) 11:27, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Since you continued editing after you asked this question, it does not appear you want an actual reply. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:21, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Revive the Bigg Boss 18 article

please do something to again back this show if you want discussion so tell me where I have to discuss with you 2000editor (talk) 05:15, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

No thanks. You have wasted enough of my time and the community's time. Do not come back to my talk page as I do not wish to discuss anything with you here. --CNMall41 (talk) 05:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Administrator elections

Hello , I really admire your work and believe you’d make an excellent admin - we needs more dedicated people like you. Would you be open to me nominating you? — Saqib (talk I contribs) 08:11, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for asking. I have been asked before but not sure I really want to go through the process of getting there. Maybe in the future. Right now there is enough stress doing something I am supposed to enjoy. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:51, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Your reverted edits of Sohai Ali Abro

You reverted all the edits that I made in Sohai Ali Abro. Although, the sources not 100% support the context however one could assume the some facts like a source published in 2013 about a TV series' success would talk about the TV series of that year. So, such things are obviously understandable. And, I have reverted the edit of analysis on her performance by a newspaper as it was as it is taken from the source. Thanks. We fjjxsiwi (talk) 06:39, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

We do not add content based on assumptions. We add them based on the source. Doing otherwise is WP:OR or using WP:FAKEREF to put what we want. --CNMall41 (talk) 06:41, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

AfD

Hello CNMall41, hope you are having a good day. I knew that this AfD was not our first encounter, but I wasn't sure where I've seen you before. Well, this AfD was our first encounter and you were also behaving the same way you are doing now. I get it, no one likes to lose, but trying to paint people as villains by saying they should be WP:CIVIL or stop WP:BATTLEGROUND is just wrong. You were also outmatched on that previous AfD, and you are still outmatched even now, but instead of pointing out what's wrong with article, you keep saying I should be CIVIL and refrain from muddying the discussion when I'm clearly presenting sources. Respectfully, stop this behavior and be "CIVIL." dxneo (talk) 17:29, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Disheartening that you feel the need to come here. Seems like a double down and meets the spirit of WP:GRAVEDANCING. Don't do it again. Take my conduct to WP:ANI should you feel I am "behaving" in a certain manner but please make sure to be aware of WP:CLEANHANDS. While we are at it, you misquoted me twice now at an AfD, despite being asked not to after the first time. I would suggest you redact. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:20, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Puffery in Sanam Saeed

There is a lot of puffery a d original research involved in the section of "Acting career" of Sanam Saeed. Please, help me to fix so that I could add the correct details later. We fjjxsiwi (talk) 13:06, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Could You Please Take a Second Look at The Victor Ghoshe page?

Hello, you recently put up some templates on the Victor Ghoshe article. I made the changes accordingly. Could you please- whenever you get time - verify the new tonality? Also, please see if the new citations are redundant. Thank you ParallelDimension (talk) 20:55, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Any editor is free to remove the tags at any time if they feel the issues do not exits or that the issues have been taken care of. I did take a quick look and I don't feel they have. It is not about the redundancy, it is about the reliability of the sources.--CNMall41 (talk) 21:09, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

NextEra Energy overview section?

Hi CNMall41, I was looking around at some other company articles and saw that quite a few of them have some version of a "Company overview" section with operational details, leadership, revenue, etc. It's similar information to what is in the infobox. Do you think something like that would be appropriate for the NextEra Energy article? If so, would you be willing to review a section like that if I put it together? Really appreciate your help with those last two things. Cheers NextEraMatt (talk) 14:37, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

I would be careful about proposing anything based on WP:OSE. However, I will review anything you propose. I am unsure exactly what you had in mind so would suggest just writing it up and then others can opine and hopefully it will meet guidelines. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:23, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Sounds good, I'll do that. Thanks! 2601:58B:E7F:4650:21B5:2F90:640B:7154 (talk) 21:30, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Well that's what I get when I don't login first. Thank you. Will follow up! NextEraMatt (talk) 21:31, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi CNMall41, I just wanted to check in on this and see if you were still interested in reviewing the section. The post is here. If not, I appreciate all your other help. Thank you and have a good weekend! NextEraMatt (talk) 19:45, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

I have looked, but it is full of irrelevant information. A lot of what the company would want people to know about it but not what readers would want to know about it. I would be more interested in doing a complete rewrite of the page but when I do that, COI editors are not always receptive. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:35, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I appreciate you taking a look. I am also interested in rewriting most of the article, and I put together a draft about a year ago, which I use to make requests slowly. I'd be happy to collaborate. NextEraMatt (talk) 23:17, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

g4tv Portal

Hi. I just wanted to know what i can do about the edit i had made (first time, so i'm new at it). Was it deemed unreliable becuase i was a first-timer or the imdb cite wasn't enough? I've got youtube playlists, and a wayback machine link to the original g4tv forums about the show. Thanks and sorry to bug you, just trying to learn, since this is one of the first times i've genuinely known something that was missing and wanted to help out Gavvv (talk) 16:18, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

The source is unreliable. Please see WP:RS. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:47, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

What do you make of this?

Page Murivu was a draft that was declined by me because it did not pass WP:NFILM. This page was created by a sock User:Rydex64 and I do not know what the master sock account was for this sock. Murivu page was moved from draftspace to mainspace by editor ArifVlog782 who also posted a fake AFC acceptance message. I suspect ArifVlog782 a sock of Rydex64 and canvassing with other editor because see how other editor tries to fix the fake acceptance message. What do you make of this? RangersRus (talk) 13:28, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

You know, I would love to take more time cleaning up pages in the Indian film space. There are some great films, rich history, and notable people that deserve to be listed in Wikipedia. Unfortunately, I rarely see enough cooperation from some editors fighting back on UPE so have taken that up as the majority of my work in the space as opposed to doing the former. I appreciate those who do take the time and hopefully soon we can get to a place where these UPE roaches go enough away where we can focus on cleanup rather than playing whack a mole. Thanks for the notification and work, and I left a message on user Jeraxmoira's talk page. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:34, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

About this

i should move or submit Draft:Mein (TV series)? by--Sunuraju (talk) 08:50, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

No, I will go ahead and tag it as undisclosed paid editing since I see it was recreated after G5 last November. You are pretty brazen to come here. Don't do it again. --CNMall41 (talk) 11:27, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Removal of Sourced content

You posted this message on my talk page [21], at that time, we were discussing notability and right now the matter is verifiability. Don't engage in edit war and seek consensus on article's talkpage. Libraa2019 (talk) 15:08, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

WP:CIR.--CNMall41 (talk) 19:54, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

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About the draft TV series article submission

Hello. I wonder when will I submit the draft article, Draft:Saving Grace (Philippine TV series). I'm sure that it's likely case of WP:TOOSOON, and apparently, an anonymous IP user have submitted it too early. JRGuevarra (talk) 05:05, 21 November 2024 (UTC)