Over on my talk page there is a reporter from The Indian Express wanting to write about Wikipedia. I cannot help the reporter with the article in the near future. Could someone else please go ahead and continue the conversation. I don't want to seem impolite by running away from it, but I really don't have time just now. And the opportunity for a user profile or maybe just helping out with the article related to Wikipedia in a leading mainstream newspaper doesn't come often :) DTM (talk) 08:52, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
I would appreciate if someone can verify the authenticity of this image. I looked at the refs and data points and it appears to me that it is vague. There are city wise data and not country wise in the tables. --DBigXrayᗙ08:04, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
None of those are official gov links. And it does say in the disclaimer "Government of India has not appointed www.india-visa-gov.in directly, indirectly or exclusively." DTM (talk) 13:07, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
Please feel free to review the draft and post comments/suggestions below "Education 3" in the "comments" subsection.
--Doc2129 (talk) 02:16, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
It has been closed sadly that was not notified or advertised better unlike the other ones like OpIndia and Swarajya or Newslaundry .This is used in a very large number of articles.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 01:09, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
Exactly, (talk), Sarvatra........... certain admins are with prejudicial mindset and presenting stories which suits their propaganda. When you question them, they is talk about behavior, manner, good faith king of logic and threaten you to be blacklisted. That is why some of the most important topics are presented in one sided manner. --Biman1989 (talk) 06:18, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
There is way too much WP:SOAPBOXing and campaigning going on in the talk page. It has been impossible for the experienced editors to wade through it all, to make sense of what is going on. DBigXray and Dey subrata have been patiently handling all this flood. But this is not how things should be. RegentsPark, El_C, does it make sense to semi-protect the talk page as well, or put it under discretionary sanctions or something? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 08:17, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
We don't protect talk pages except under exceptional circumstances, because it runs contrary to the "everyone can edit" pillar of Wikipedia. This is especially true if the article is already protected. We are not obliged, however, to respond to all the garbage that is posted on the talk page of a protected article. @RegentsPark: I don't think such a template exists, but one could be created easily enough, by modifying Template:ARBPIA, I think. Vanamonde (Talk)15:39, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
Sorry, got busy in RL. I see the page is already protected but I've added the edit notice anyway. Hopefully that will keep non-IP editors in check as well. --regentspark (comment) 16:57, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
Johnbod, the incidents did not happen in New Delhi. New delhi is in the center of Delhi state, while the incidents happen in 12 police stations in NE Delhi. So your title is misleading and incorrect. Media sources are using North East Delhi violence/riots/clashes. hence this title was used. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ17:41, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
Fowler&fowler, it was not spread over Delhi. Only one lok sabha constituency . (12 Police station out of around 400) So the dab North East, is useful and also used widely by Media. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ17:47, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
No doubt locally, yes. But the riots have got huge international attention, without being referred to with the North East. I take your point about "New", but 2020 Delhi riots cannot be said to be ambiguous or unclear. Johnbod (talk) 18:00, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
2020 North East Delhi riots is useful but as per the naming policy disambiguation "2020" can be droppped if the incident is unique in history. and This one North East Delhi riots is unique. I will start redirects to cover these titles though as they are valid search terms. The title Delhi riot implies that it was spread over entire state of delhi, which is not the case here. Hence my objection. The redirects do cover it ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ18:03, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
I can't be bothered to deal with the fine points of title policy, but surely, when India's capital region is as big as it is, and has a population larger than that of most countries, a more specific title is not a bad thing. Vanamonde (Talk)22:25, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
Is anyone able to check the birth date at the article? It was recently edited in a way that put an error in the infobox. The problem is that I cannot see a reference for the date so it should probably be removed. The fluff also needs cleaning: "critically and commercially successful thriller", "stellar cast of Kollywood - Tollywood biggies" and probably more. Johnuniq (talk) 06:31, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
Simple English article on Hindutva needs attention (especially re: NPOV)
The Simple English article on Hindutva is quite barebones, and what little is there read much like propaganda. It could definitely use elaboration, better citations, and potentially significant rephrasing to make it less biased/non-NPOV. I mentioned the same at Talk:Hindutva, but there hasn't been much in the way of improvement.
A user, Divyendra, has also repeatedly vandalized the Simple English Wikipedia article to either remove properly-cited criticism of the movement or add their own OR dismissing it. Most recently, they edited the article to add unencyclopedic, uncited original research (in response to properly cited criticism of the movement), then after it was rightly removed for those reasons, they immediately readded the paragraph without addressing any of those issues. As I noted here, this isn't the first time that this exact user has vandalized the article, either: "Looking at the edit history, one user in particular seems to have repeatedly removed properly-cited criticism of the movement and replaced it with, essentially, propaganda/biased phrasing supporting the movement. They've also responded to someone [on the talk page of the article] complaining about (apparent) removal of pro-Hindutva content from the article with the phrase "we have to respond in kind", which presumably explains their behavior."
I ended up reporting them for vandalism on the Simple English Wikipedia; their edits have had to be rolled back multiple times, and the many issues with the article can't be addressed while it's being repeatedly vandalized. I also told them after the previous incident to discuss such issues on the talk page instead of vandalizing the page, but they did not respond there. (They seem to have an account on this regular English Wikipedia as well - Divyendra (talk · contribs) - but they've only made one edit here on the Trishula article, to change an image caption referencing "Hindu mythology" to "Hindu texts" instead.)
Anyway, it'd help to have more eyes on the Simple English Wikipedia page to address its many issues: the non-NPOV tone, the lack of reliable sources, and the repeated vandalism. It feels like, since there are so few people keeping an eye on the page, it's basically being treated like a propaganda page to promote the movement. V2Blast (talk) 07:07, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
Hi WP:INDIA, I was cleaning up the Lodhwan and found that it has biology references. I'm not sure if it is a legitimate populated area so I hope that you can take a look at it. --Lenticel(talk)00:34, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
@DiplomatTesterMan, Ravensfire, and Lenticel: I removed some copyvio also. Sorry if the article is any messier. I've gone ahead and blocked him, copying the text Ravensfire removed and telling him he could be unblocked if he could explain his edit. We just can't have editors making such a mess. Doug Wellertalk19:38, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
Doug Weller, in my humble opinion, no, it does not. He is just rewriting content which are tagged with original research, CN etc tags, without any reference. It does not help. What do you think? Regards. --Titodutta (talk) 21:11, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
Looking again at the editor, they ignore all posts to their talk page, except one warning which they just copied to the editor giving them. I've told them refusal to communicate will lead to a block. Sad but if editors won't communicate or explain themselves.... Doug Wellertalk08:59, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
Hi. I have been recently been slowly adding climate data for Indian Cities after a 4-5 year hiatus for the past 2 months based on the new 1981–2010 data that the India Meteorological Department has published at Climatological Normals 1981–2010. However, as much as I oppose creating separate templates, the problem is that vandalism by users on Indian cities is so rampant and hard to detect that I have been creating separate templates (e.g. see Template:Shimla weatherbox and sample IP vandalism that was undetected and see Template: Imphal weatherbox and sample IP vandalism that was undetected for 1 month). Right now, I am asking for other opinions if there are other options to deter climate vandalism other than semi-protecting pages and whether it is okay to proceed with mass adding templates of climate data to deter vandalism. Thanks. Ssbbplayer (talk) 15:22, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
Hello! Mumbai related articles need too much updation.
For example, Kirit Somaiya has too much promotional stuff and Parag Shah has history of undisclosed paid editing in past. Though I have improved the content in latter recently but many articles need to be updated.
Another one is Mangal Lodha-- who is being shown as present president of BJP Mumbai while same thing was shown for Ashish Shelar which I cleaned up a lot. I think validation of his claim of president of cricket association is also needed because it generally has term of 3 years.
Third category is constituencies of Vidhan Sabha which are not being updated. Example- Vandre West (Vidhan Sabha constituency). It has no results of 2019 elections.
I am not able to do all these alone and I am not resident of Mumbai even. If someone wants to take lead then I can provide my guidance to them. Regards,--Brihaspati (talk)06:05, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
Foreign language sourcing?
I moved a student's article live to Gloria de Souza. There's English language coverage, but a lot of it covers her more in relation to the organization she founded. I was wondering if someone could look for more sourcing in Hindi to help establish how she's independently notable. Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 17:57, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
Hey there, I'm not exactly clear which language is being spoken, but based on what little I know of Bhuvan Bam, it might be Marathi or Gujarati, possibly. I need help discerning Bhuvan Bam's birthdate from this source (verified Pinkvilla site). He says his birthdate at 02:04. I can only make out January and 1994, so I'm curious about the specific date. Your attuned ear is appreciated. Thanks. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 20:28, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
Cyphoidbomb, he is speaking in Hindi. This is what he is saying between 2:05 and 2:25: "What is Bhuvan Bam's age? Please do not search its answer at Wikipedia because all information on that is wrong. My real age is 24 years. I was born on 22 Januray 1994. Everything is wrong on Wikipedia. You people always wish me a day or two earlier, which creates a big problem." - NitinMlk (talk) 14:17, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
On a side note, I kinda hate it when celebs say "Wikipedia is all wrong, etc, etc" when most of the time these incorrect info comes from reliable agencies as well as when they themselves try to hide their age, birth place, etc. This person was like Wikipedia is all wrong, I wasn't born in XYZ... in a video. All we were doing is restoring it to what the accompanying reliable was saying, obviously it was changed to the one mentioned by her in the video. But damn... these people start saying everything is wrong in Wikipedia. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:39, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
They probably try to hide their age, birthplace etc. but they do have a point. I have seen a large number of instances of careless copy-pasting of WP's wrong information by nearly all major Indian/Pakistani newspapers. Few of them were reported by me at WP:RSN, e.g. see The Hindu, Hindustan Times, Dawn, Dunya news, The Nation, etc. And this trend of copy-pasting has been going on for well over a decade now. To make things worse, they do not even try to rectify their errors. - NitinMlk (talk) 17:44, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Big problem with edit warring over birthdates, so much of which is not reliably sourced, if at all. Here, Bhuvan Bam seems to be complaining as much about the *day* being wrong, and subsequently receiving felicitations too early ("You people always wish me a day or two earlier..."), as much as the year making him out to be the wrong age, by a much larger error than just a day or two, although I don't know why that "creates a big problem" ("first-world" problems). Dhtwiki (talk) 23:50, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
He said the "big problem" bit in a lighter vein. But strangely, between 2:25 and 2:31, he is saying that his WP biography mentions that Angelina Jolie is his wife & that they have two children. But it's hard to believe that his BLP contained such stuff. So either he saw some vandalised version or confused some other site with WP. - NitinMlk (talk) 17:01, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
Understanding that the subject fancies himself a comedian, the Angelina Jolie content and his birthdate complaint seems to me like he's taking the piss; exaggerating the hardship he's endured by getting birthday wishes a single day early and allegedly being (unlikely) romantically linked to one of Hollywood's leading ladies. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 03:00, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi there. I would like to request anyone here's help in editing this article Open defecation. There are misrepresented and biased article posts done by people with anti-indian sentiments and i have appallingly found myself banned. I am not fond of editing here so i request if you could help on this issue. I refer to the section on "India and Hinduism". Thanks --Hari147 (talk) 09:56, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
A discussion is initiated on the articles talk page. There's clearly lot of divergence from what the cited sources in the section say and content in the article. It looks like, this is a case of POV Pushing. Santoshdts (talk) 15:04, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
Hey there, a few times recently as you can see in the edit history, there has been some back and forth at Mahabharat (2013 TV series), where people keep tinkering with the genre, going back and forth between "historical" and "mythological". Obviously, I can understand how to some a collection of stories might be described as "mythology", while to true believers, it would be a history. To some, the Christian bible is infallible truth, but to scholars, it's all part of mankind's various mythologies. Anyone have any guidance or precedent for how this should be treated? I know TV genres aren't exactly the expertise of this group, though. Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 21:04, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
Cyphoidbomb, methinks, somewhere in the haystack of epic, hindu mythological, action, fantasy, soap opera. Mahabharata doesn't have one version, nothing except the names of places are certainly historical, and these television shows are never faithful to the source material anyway. I would say, "mythological" or "historical fantasy" would both capture most of the essence; calling it "historical" would be a stretch. If there's a war going though, probably the simplest solution would be to remove the parameter altogether, and require a source for re-addition. This calls it an "extravagant adaptation of the mythological epic", and then, a "mythological series". Regards! Usedtobecool☎️21:47, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
What Usedtobecool said.
Hinduism-related articles often see drive-by edits replaces occurrences of the word "mythology" with "history" or "theology" (!). But sources (see, eg Goldman's essay here, pages 14-60), policies and priordiscussions are quite clear that, for purpose of an encyclopedia, Ramayana, Mahabharata and Puranic literature are correctly classified (non-pejoratively) as mythological, legendary, literary, epic etc but certainly not as plain "historical". Abecedare (talk) 22:29, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
Thank you all. Much appreciated. It seemed fairly intuitive to me the way you've both explained it, but I just wanted to check. Thanks. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:24, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
The article Ramnami Samaj would be greatly enhanced with a appropriate image but I haven't been able to find one. The File:Ramnami of Chhattisgarh was used at first but is possibly a copyright violation (see Talk:Ramnami Samaj) and has been removed from the article. So, any help in finding an appropriate copyright free image will be great. Regards, TryKid (talk) 16:08, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
Right, so I've been trying to fix the Bengali cuisine article for a little over a year now, and one persistent issue I keep running into is that I don't know what to cite. Obviously, if New Yorker magazine (or something like that) had a segment discussing Bengali restaurants, that might be useful, but no such thing exists from what I see. Books are also an issue because Google Books obviously doesn't give you the whole book. There's a lot of interesting information that I know is true as a Bengali, but that I can't back up. I don't want to delete some of this stuff, but the only other means of supporting these statements is to cite blog posts or some sketchy recipe site. Then there's also the issue of the list of food, but I'm assuming the solution there is just to create a table.
Anyone who can read Bengali would obviously be very useful for citing things, because as of right now most of the article's sources are almost blog posts. puggo (talk) 17:22, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
Newslinger, yes, I have heard of some of those articles. I believe some were even cited on the page. But I do appreciate the advice, the library system that Wikipedia has is new to me, I'll try to utilize that to the best of my ability. Thank you. puggo (talk) 16:15, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
A few other suggestions:
Janeja, Manpreet K. (2010). Transactions in Taste: The Collaborative Lives of Everyday Bengali Food. Routledge. ISBN978-0-415-72631-3.
Ray, Utsa. "Eating 'Modernity': Changing Dietary Practices in Colonial Bengal". Modern Asian Studies. 46 (3): 703–729. JSTOR41478327.
Sikund, Krishna (Winter 1990–1991). "Food Culture in Calcutta". India International Centre Quarterly. 17 (3/4): 220–228. JSTOR23002463.
Hey all, if anyone knows who Subramanian Swamy is, you might want to watchlist the article. Two talk page requests have come in challenging the statement in the lead that asserts that the subject is known for anti-Muslim views. I don't know the subject, but I am concerned about potential BLP issues and would prefer to have wiser people than I look at the matter. I appreciate your help! Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 19:31, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
@NitinMlk: I would have preferred if you had used more neutral wording there. I am aware of the issues with these publishers. I am only stating that it would be more beneficial to include a unreliable source template (or something similar) with existing citations rather than removing them outright. Alivardi (talk) 14:59, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Instead of retaining the Gyan citation and adding a {{Unreliable source?}} tag, just remove it and add a {{citation needed}} tag. Retaining a known junky source is just directing readers towards misinformation and I don't see any benefit in doing so.
We should just remove them, the unreliable source template is not appropriate with a wholly unreliable source like Gyan. Plus, removing material that is not properly cited is policy.--regentspark (comment) 15:15, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Just remove. It has been that way for a decade or more, going way back to when Moonriddengirl was our go-to for issues relating to copyright. FWIW, Gyan publishes not only material plagiarised from us but also from academic works published by others - I think there are some examples in my userspace. - Sitush (talk) 15:42, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
The point is not merely one of ethics relating to copyright - it demonstrates an unacceptable laxity in oversight by the publisher, raising serious questions regarding the reliability of material on those occasions when it is not plagiarised.- Sitush (talk) 15:48, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
I still believe that removal isn't the best way of dealing with the issue, but I can see that there is a consensus for this action, so I'll concede. I'll remove the caution from Мастер_Шторм's talk page. Alivardi (talk) 16:33, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi everybody! So far I haven't mentioned this nomination to anyone and I wouldn't do it if it were taken notice of, but I see that it's not generating enough interest on FAC, and it would be a shame not to have it at least read or reviewed. Please leave questions and comments for improvement if you have any interest. Shahid • Talk2me04:06, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
Noticeboard discussion on reliability of Postcard News and tfipost.com
Hello, hope this message finds you well. You may hava a look, and share your suggestion(s) here about naming files. Regards. --Titodutta (talk) 08:47, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
Hello, I just created a request for a new page for the Vizag chemical plant disaster which has killed at least 8 people and injured over 5000. I am new to editing, how does it get approved quickly? Can someone speed up the process?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Visakhapatnam_LG_Polymer_Disaster
That might be a little time-taking, but not very difficult. Some of the admis might be members of some mailing list, or we can try finding out. A more important question is "what is the plan?" --Titodutta (talk) 16:41, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
Titodutta, we can use WP:MMS to find the admin. The last post was back in 2012-13. Many things have changed in the last decade. More people now have internet access, More editors etc. We should reactivate the page to reach more people. ❯❯❯ S A H A17:49, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
Hi, just to announce the new 10,000 Challenge for India. Let's see 10,000 article improvements and creations for India, covering every state and topic. If you support this sign up and start inviting project members to join and participate as I may have a contest to set up for India like Wikipedia:The Great Britain and Ireland Destubathon later in the year to help fuel it! † Encyclopædius22:06, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
I checked, and I could not find any WP:RS online sources about Lakhahi being a princely state. Which doesn't mean someone wont succeed, and of course, sources do not have to be online or in English (but it makes things easier). They still have to be WP:RS though. On en-WP, no reliable sources, no article. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:22, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
Requesting opinion on a page move request.
Hello,
@ Talk:Aurat (disambiguation)#Requested_move_11_May_2020 is taking place about article relating to women of mainly of Asian origin. In Past 2 days only two opinions are received and more opinions will be preferable. Thanks for your opinion and participation in discussion.
@Amazingcaptain: Not really sure that the event qualifies as notable especially with the real names of the persons involved attached; see WP:BLPCRIME, WP:BLPNAME etc. Would be a good idea to get some more opinions at WP:BLPN before moving the draft to mainspace. Incidentally, the draft contains some statements that I didn't find support for in the attached sources (eg, "nine eyewitnesses corroborated S's account while none corroborated J's account"; "S was held innocent" as opposed to acquitted etc) but that can be discussed on the article talkpage and easily fixed if the subject is found to be fit for a mainspace article. Abecedare (talk) 07:05, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
Creating a portal is going to hard and they don't really get any views. Some time ago an admin went on a Portal deletion crusade and deleted 90% of all Portals! She was later desysopped for related reasons, but now it feels like Portals may not be the best use of one's time. TryKid (talk) 19:37, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
TryKid, Ya. I also saw some portals, and the views were way too less. No portal required. But, we can make a separate wikiproject of transport, so that we can compile all the scattered articles in a single place, and more people can contribute. ❯❯❯ S A H A05:53, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
WikiProject? I don't think there are enough people for that. A task force will be a better option. WikiProjects for all the Indian states were created (in 2013?) and most for them are inactive now. Are there really enough sources about Transport in India? There's already a Wikipedia:WikiProject_Indian_roads and that doesn't seem to be going anywhere. @ArnabSaha:TryKid (talk) 10:36, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
TryKid hmm, a taskforce will be a better option. if the fb page can be reactivated, we will be able to gather more people. also, using mass-messaging we can inform the editors. ❯❯❯ S A H A10:43, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
I am not a big fan of portals, I don't dislike those either. It would be good to see a plan to work on, and more importantly a few editors who will be working on it. Then it can be a portal, task force, editing drive etc. --Titodutta (talk) 09:59, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
As everyone has said, no need for a portal, although I believe that a wikiproject will be useful. Also, not a dead wikiproject like Indian roads. Field Marshal Aryan (talk) 18:47, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
Awards like Padma Bhushan -- are these typically used as honourifics?
Hey all, are the various Padma awards typically used as honourifics? I've seen people's names followed by post-nominals PB (Padma Bhushan) or even with the full name like Tapishwar Narain Raina. Is this a legitimate convention, or are some people fluffing up articles? At that same article he's also got his whole rank indicated in the infobox, which I don't see being done for similarly important military figures in other nations. For instance, Colin Powell. Powell apparently has a number of medals, yet I don't see a string of post-nominals behind his name. Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 20:56, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
There are two different category of awards with possibly different answer:
With regards to the Indian civilian awards: This has been oft-discussed on this board (see this and this) and the conclusion is that use of award names or initials as a prefix or suffix is against Indian constitution as interpreted by its Supreme Court and award rulebook (see also eg this), and also not commonly used in high-quality sources. So such use should be removed from wikipedia articles in all instances.
With regards to Indian military awards: there is some indication that the use of award-initials is allowed (by constitution and law) although I haven't been able to find anything authoritative. But 'allowed', of course, does not mean that we should use these post-nominals in the lede-sentence and infoboxes; that would depend upon what convention reliable sources and other military-bios on wikipedia follow. I haven't looked into this yet and would welcome input from other editors more familiar with the subject and sources in the area.
Not sure for civilian honours but military honour awards are frequently mentioned after the name. There is no compulsion or restriction here but last whenever I have read the official magazine of the Indian Air force, I have noticed this. Field Marshal Aryan (talk) 12:37, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
Removal of Stub Status to Andhra Pradesh Library Association
I have expanded Andhra Pradesh Library Association page sufficiently, adding content, references, pictures, etc. So request you to remove the page from Andhra Pradesh stubs category. --VJS (talk) 09:53, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
Unverified exclusion of Indic Scripts in Wikipedia
Hi there. It seems to be an issue in wikipedia that indic script are not being allowed to be edited, be it to states of India, or to most articles. This exclusion has been predated by an unverfied edit to wikipedias manual on editing indian articles. Most government documents, legislation and official uses use indic scripts along with english. I believe this edit needs to be deleted in the manual, and would be in favour of deleting this so that articles in wikipedia would allow the addition of indic scripts, just as foreign langauge articles, for example article on Gansu, Azad Kashmir, Chiang Rai Province, etc. Its not clear if the edit was made without consent, but now it may need the attention of voting. -- (talk) 17:20, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
Arjayay Then could you explain the rationale behind it since you are the one against it?? It’s easy for you to follow and delete my posts so you should have an explaination why other scripts are allowed while Indic scripts are not. Hari147 (talk) 02:26, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
could you explain the rationale behind, the WP:NOINDICSCRIPT section has this explanation. There is a possibility after reading this section you might have questions, and rationales to tell why is this rule a bad one? Comments are welcome. However please note the same section actually has several past discussions which are also worth reading. --Titodutta (talk) 03:13, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
Titodutta but what is the rationale behind the exclusion of any Indic scripts? When other scripts are allowed to be added why is only indic scripts not allowed? I have seen the discussion but fail to understand the proper reply. Is there no consensus on the native writing in India? It is not like everyone in India has avoided writing in any sort of Indic scripts because of not being able to agree on a standard. Why cant both the native and national language be added together? Will there be some sort of memory error if indic scripts are added? What is the purpose of not adding it?? --Hari147 (talk) 03:55, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Hello, let me copy the third paragraph of the page linked above:
One reason why Indian scripts are avoided is because often there are too many different languages with their own native script, which can be original names for a topic. Additionally, there are too often problems with verifiability of the accuracy of the non-English spelling. A third reason is frequent disagreements over which native scripts to include; this led to a resolution to avoid all of them.
There are several dicussions also linked there, if needed go through this.
Explicitly giving instruction to editors within the content of the article
Hello, this is with respect to railway locomotive articles of India. This one in particular: WDP-4. In India locomotives have their own sheds in various cities where they are maintained and come back for servicing. Basically, the shed is the home of a locomotive and is responsible for it. When any of the factory churns out a loco, they are assigned to any of the existing sheds. The data for this is available here. My friend here, user:Suvadeep Saha56 says that many people edit the shed section without checking the official data, thus adding wrong information. To prevent this, he added the following line right under the table that shows the loco sheds
Note-Before updating the information in loco shed anybody should check out the railways current official data first in the reference link 8 then change the data.
My question is, is it OK to add such an instruction which will be visible to so many readers and possibly confuse those not familiar with it? We are supposed to write articles so they can be understood by laymen too right? I tried reasoning with him through email but he says "Bro what is the problem if wikipedia is not reverting then what is the issue." Can you guys (more experienced editors) tell us what to do now? --Field Marshal Aryan (talk) 09:38, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
Hello,Mr Suvadeep Saha56 is actually quite new to wikipedia. He is a hard working member of the WikiProject Indian railways and tries his best to keep articles up to date. As for the above statement i think the instruction should be removed.--Hdmanohar (talk) 09:33, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
@Field Marshal Aryan: You are right that wikipedia articles should not contain such instructions to editors (see WP:SELF for some related guidelines). The preferred approach is to explicit provide the citation immediately next to the data that is being commonly changed and an alternative is to include the note as a a hidden comment. Unfortunately, in practice, neither of these approaches prevent causal editors from changing the data w/o referring to the note or cited reference. The only approaches that do work is keeping an eye on the articles in your watchlist and/or occasionally checking that the claims are consistent with the cited sources.
A related tip for you and Suvadeep Saha56: GoI web-pages are notorious for dying, which makes it very difficult to verify after-the-fact if a claim is/was supported by the cited source. So I'd encourage both of you archive any such source so that it is reliably accessible. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 21:14, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
@Abecedare:, thanks for replying. For now, we have implemented the message as a hidden comment. As for the archiving part, I will try to do that today although that source is very less likely to be lost since it is an integral part of the functioning of Railways. --Field Marshal Aryan (talk) 02:13, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
Resource List
Hello India editors. Can someone please link your resource list in this conversation, please? I am looking for whether certain on-line media is considered factual, not factual, etc. Thanks, Galendalia CVU Member \ Chat Me Up17:31, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
Sorry should have been more specific. I’m looking for the list of what your project determines as reliable sources for BLP. I’m a moderator on the DRN (On en) and working to help resolve a dispute where a user is using google search to pull up articles on a journalist but they all seem to link to the same media. Galendalia CVU Member \ Chat Me Up05:26, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
It is clear from these sources these scholars don't mention any "tax" at all. Ultimately such a "tax" was a mere part of Channar revolt. Given these points, it seems clear that the significance of a "breast tax" is being exaggerated. Similarly, story of a "Nangeli" is missing from these academic sources. Contradictions were discussed earlier at Talk:Nangeli#Truth or fiction.
Thanks for the ECP and the notice here, Deepfriedokra. This article seems to be the victim of the recent flare up in the Indo-Nepali border dispute, which is also affecting many other articles about geographical entities along the border. For now, I have reverted it to the last stable version, and further changes can be discussed. Abecedare (talk) 16:09, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
I have also ECPed Sharda River and Lipulekh Pass; Kalapani territory is already protected. Will keep an eye on Kuthi Valley and Kalapani where the current levels of disruption are manageable but that may change. Feel free to bring other affeted pages to notice here (or, on my talkpage) and it would be most helpful if some experienced editors could help watch and edit these articles. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 16:31, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
Manish Sisodia tweeted out a link to a Wikipedia page
cool. and weird. i thought there might be some COI issues but it seems that the article was expanded by a long time user @KCVelaga: so no problems i guess. just wanted to put it here in case someone finds it interesting. TryKid[dubious – discuss]22:28, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
Notable awards - Nari Shakti Puraskar
There have been a few new articles written for Women in Red about women who have been awarded the Nari Shakti Puraskar which is an annual award said to be the highest award for women and given by the President of India on International Women's Day each year. This is similar to International Women of Courage Award but it usually goes to an Indian National. I (assisted by Tito Dutta) have written a few articles including Kalavati Devi (that had 14,000 views at DYK and Sonia Jabbar (which is up for deletion). The question raised at AfD is, Are these women notable? They both enough coverage (IMO) but is the award sufficient to establish notability? This would be important as these women all have free to use pictures and an outline profile created by the relevant ministry (WCD). In some cases they were notable anyway, but the test would be where a woman gained coverage because of the award. Tito Dutta (who suggested this post) has created a useful template which lists the awardees and it can found here. Your views/consensus would be useful. Thanks Victuallers (talk) 10:17, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
@Victuallers: I suggest asking for support at Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history. They have many historical discussions about the notability of people for whom almost nothing is known, except the name and the fact of an award. If they can point to a rule, then perhaps we can apply that for this award. The general circumstance is considering what is the point of a Wikipedia article when we have no information to put into it. In the case of Sonia Jabbar it seems that there are multiple arguments for deletion, including the issue of the award and a lack of sources. Having better guidelines for awards would clarify much of that discussion. Blue Rasberry (talk)12:30, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for the the thought @Bluerasberry:. I will raise it there, but hope that won't deter anyone who thinks this is important to India related topics. I will ask Milhist to post here to avoid having two threads. Victuallers (talk) 13:14, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
I consider that as meeting WP:ANYBIO#1, which translates to Keep at AFD under the presumption of notability. What this presumption means to me is—I am willing to give the third world a few more decades to write about everyone that merit writing about; for the first world, I am willing to wait a decade or so for living and recently deceased people but not the ones whose careers ended before WWII and/or lives ended 20 years ago. Regards! Usedtobecool☎️14:11, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
I had recently cleaned up the Nari Shakti Puraskar article after coming across it through a related AFD, so had an oppurtunity to look at some of this. Firstly, note that the "highest civilian award" for women in India is the same as the highest civilian award for men, viz, the Bharat Ratna. The hyperbolic language along these lines was added to the wikipedia page in Jan 2019, and is not even used by the award's official website itself.
That said, NSP are a national award given by the Ministry of Women and Child Development, and any recipient should definitely be listed in the wikipedia pages about the awards and considered for a biographical article. Whether the latter is reasonable will depend upon the amount of biographical information that can verified based on secondary sources. I suspect that many awardees will prove to have received enough coverage even other than news reports related to the award itself to justify creating a stand-alone article. But if there is little to say beyond "X received the Nari Shakti Puraskar for Y" then a simple redirect to the relevant (possibly, awardees-by-year) list article that carries that information would be a better option for both the reader and the subject. In some cases, there may be other options: for example Aishwarya Boddapati, Pratibha Jamwalet al should redirect to Navika Sagar Parikrama.
(TL;DR) good candidates but biographical articles should not be an automatic, or only, option for providing coverage.
@Victuallers: you mentioned an outline profile of the awardess provided by WCD. I didn't find it at the award website, which doesn't even list the award citation. Is the information available on some other website or in some WCD/PIB press-release? Abecedare (talk) 20:21, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
Hi @Abecedare:, it varies from year to year, but in recent years they have been tweeted as jpgs or gifs on twitter. This one here is a sample that I loaded to commons to keep a record of it. Sometimes they have some useful facts but in other cases they can just be "nice person doing nice things". However they do confirm which "Jane Singh" is being discussed. HTH. Your point that all of these award holders can be considered for articles is well understood and is used for any article about anybody. The point being raised is that our procedures say that someone gaining a significant award is enough in itself irrespective of other details. So the main point is, is this award significant. I think you are saying that in itself this award is not important enough... and significant coverage is still required. Victuallers (talk) 23:04, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
In my opinon, an NSP award definitely helps towards establishing notability, additional awards/achievements/coverages help further. User:Abecedare, I searched using query: "Nari Shakti Puraskar" site:gov.in OR site:nic.in and found several Govt. websites cover things here and there, for example see this or this. Regards. --Titodutta (talk) 23:11, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for the links Victuallers & Titodutta. Searching Twitter for (#NARISHAKTI) (from:MinistryWCD) pulls up some more write-ups and video-profiles. Btw, we also need to search for "Stree Shakti Puraskar", which was not only a predecessor award but also co-existed with NSP for at least 2015.
Victuallers, I am not trying to argue that the award is not significant but only that, as per wikipedia's notability guidelines, even a significant award is "does not guarantee that a subject should" have a separate article. We always need sources to have enough material to write an article, and in a hypothetical scenario where all we had was a two-sentence award citation, a separate article wouldn't be justified; the content could be covered in the award page instead. Fwiw, I don't expect such a situation to arise too often since every recent awardee I spot-checked seems to have received significant media attention. Not sure of the situation in previous years when the awards apparently had a lower profile, with no nominations being being received for the year 2012!. Abecedare (talk) 00:25, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
True, it should be helpful to check case by case. If we good content to present to the readers, we can go ahead. Searching sources in Indian languages should be helpful as well (languages like Tamil, Telugu, Hindi, Bengali (actually most of the official Indian languages, Odia most probably being the recent addition) etc are these days better-translated by Google Translator, so not knowing a language should not be an issue). --Titodutta (talk) 05:20, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
Thx @Abecedare:@Titodutta:, I guess I was hoping for a presumption of notability as you do if you write about someone in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. Good suggestions too from Titodutta. I just added a Hindi ref to Smriti Morarka but I cannot hope to gain subtle stuff from the article. I can see that some of the awardees have a lot of coverage in an Indian language but I cannot hope to do them justice unless there is an English report of their work. Keep safe Victuallers (talk) 16:32, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
SearchHelper script demo, showing quick search optionsBuilding on existing content:I am sure you all know it, however I'll think out loud Sometimes when I face difficulty to find reliable sources for an article, I use a few things to find more references. One of the options is "Building on existing content/references". Taking example of the particular article you have mentioned Smriti Morarka — from the current version I know Morarka studied in Sophia College, so let's search more precisely "Smriti Morarka" Sophia College -wikipedia. From this search I find a reference of Financial Express, which is not added in the Wikipedia article as of now. In the same reference you get more information about her as well. Note: it looks like Tantuvi was founded in 1998 per this source, not 1993, as mentioned in the article. Moving ahead, now I am searching with query: Smriti Morarka Tantuvi 1998, this article of FI confirms the year as 1998. Next I can search with ""Smriti Morarka" "Bunkar: The Last of the Varanasi Weavers"" and so on.... Note, so far I searched a) only on Google web, and b) in English. We can switch to other Google search options such as news, news archive etc, and also search in Indic languages. I hope I could explain this. Not only searching with the article title, narrowing down and making the search as specific as possible often helps not only to find additional references, but also to find more content. Finally there is a script, let me advertise a bit User:Titodutta/scripts/SearchHelper.js, that adds several quick search option beside an article title. I thought it would be helpful, unfortunately no one is using this as of now. Please use the IndianNewspaperSearch Google Custom search there if you use it, that's often a saver for me. User:Victuallers and User:Abecedare, I'll go ahead and add a version of these points at WP:INDAFD if you think these will help others, in general. --Titodutta (talk) 23:58, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
In the light of the latest diplomatic salvo by the Nepalese government,[1] I cleaned up the page on the Kuthi Valley (which the Nepalese call "Limpiyadhura") and added a small section on the Nepalese claims.
There is nothing however in the lead or the infobox about the claims. I am writing here to get your views. An IP offered this wording, which I rejected. It doesn't seem me to like the issue can be elevated to a "dispute" at this time. Even "claim" seems a bit far-fetched to me. Something like "Nepal expressed its intention to reclaim the area by virtue of an 1816 treaty"? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 10:30, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
Kautilya3, I am unsure as to the meanings and distinctions you are ascribing to the three words. To me, it is a disputed territory by definition when a government includes it in its official map while it is being governed by another. We are not talking about one deranged individual, it's two countries both of which have now included a territory in their official maps. Isn't that enough? Usedtobecool☎️10:46, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
News reports would obviously report what has just happened: "published a map", "claimed", "asserted" etc. [7]. It will be a while before they study the problem, talk to the experts etc. before they form a view on the status of the issue. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 11:21, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
That make no sense to me. But national borders are one of those things I couldn't care less about if I tried. So, I'll leave you be. Regards! Usedtobecool☎️11:31, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
In the article Subramanian Swamy, there exists a statement that says "Swamy was one of the founding members of the right-wing Janata Party". I couldn't find a reference that Janata Party is a right-wing party. There is a citation at the end of the sentence which links to this book - http://worldcat.org/oclc/1090162885. I cannot access the book, however I searched extensively regarding "Janata Party" being a right wing party, even searched for quotes in this book and I couldn't find any references for it. Since I couldn't find anything, I added an inline 'citation needed' next to it. An editor reverted my changes saying that the citation is already present. I did not revert their changes but started a conversation on the talk page and asked them to provide the source for it as I clearly couldn't find it anywhere. Even the exact statement/quote from the book would have sufficed. I waited for 3 days but they didn't reply however they were active on the site so I added the inline "citation needed" again. They again revert it without providing any information and add an edit warring warning on my talk page.
This same user in the past was edit warring claiming Subramanian Swamy is Anti-Muslim and said it is referenced in sources when in reality the referenced articles didn't mention anything about Swamy being being known for being Anti-Muslim. At that time also they added an Edit Warring warning on my talk page.
In both of this cases, they are failing to maintain an NPOV which is against BLP guidelines.
Can someone please tell me if I am in the wrong here and anything I could have differently since I think I have followed all the guidelines, started a discussion, waited for a reasonable time. This user on the other hand didn't wish to communicate at all and just reverts my changes adds edit-warring warnings on my talk page. I totally understand this party may be a right-wing party, I just don't like this behavior.
Hello, Amazingcaptain, I haven't read your whole comment, but I can provide the Swamy-related details from the book in question. Details related to him are present on just two pages of the book, namely page no. 108 and 109. In fact, they are also available in the Google Books preview to me. Anyway, here's what all mentioned in the book about him:
The arguments of the veteran Hindu nationalist and Harvard-educated economist Subramanian Swamy, a long-time member of the right-wing Janata Dal party who finally joined the BJP in 2013, and who was earlier Minister of Commerce in the Chandra Shekhar-led government in 1990–91, make this point well. Globalisation poses two risks, he asserts: one to the economy, as it can open it to attacks from ‘international raiders and speculators’ and the other to culture. ‘Globalisation can alter values, spread disease more easily, and disrupt the family system’, Swamy observes (2007, p. 81). Limits have to be placed on its reach, with India ‘well integrated’ into ‘global markets’, with appropriate ‘connectivity’ (Swamy, 2007, p. 90). But all of this has to be closely managed if the Indian ‘renaissance’ he envisages is to occur, because of the cultural corrosion that can come via globalisation. For Swamy, the proper aim should be a modernised India coupled with what he terms a ‘virat [which he translates as ‘virile’] Hindu identity’ (2013, p. 21).
Swamy was never a member of the Janata Dal.He was a member of the Janata Party and joined the BJP in 2013 .The reference which states Janata Dal instead of Janata Party is factually incorrect.
Agree with Pharaoh of the Wizards that when the source says, Janata Dal it really is referring to Janata Party (was the latter known by that name too during the 1970s, possibly in some Hindi language sources?). This is clear from another place in the book where Hall says, When the emergency ended, Modi was given the task of mobilising voters in Gujarat in the 1977 general election, which led to a win by the Janata Dal (People's Party).... The latter clearly is a reference to Janata Party.
Also surprised by the labeling of Janata Party, with its socialist roots, as a right-wing party; perhaps shows the amorphousness of that term. Would recommend not using this source's off-hand use of that adjective to apply that label to 1970s-1980s era Janata Party, unless more authoritative sources on the party back it up. By the way, is there any information about the exact link between Swamy's Janata Party and the original Janata Party that (afaik) effectively ceased to exist in the late 1980s? Our Janata Party article doesn't have any information about its activities from then to its merger with BJP in 2013. Abecedare (talk) 21:51, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
This situation is made messy by the propensity of sources to use the names they are given uncritically. My understanding is that the two Janata parties are nominally the same; Swamy remained leader of the tiny fragment of the Janata Party that held onto its 1975 name after most of the party fragmented in the 1980s and 1990s. They are both distinct from the Janata Dal, formed in 1988 with some other fragments of the Janata Party. The original Janata Party, constituted in 1975, can in no way be described as a right-wing party; despite the presence of the Jana Sangh in its fold, it was led by socialists, and to the extent that it had a single political position aside from its opposition to the emergency and to Indira Gandhi, one could characterize it as leftist, or centre-left. To answer your question, Abecedare, the fragment of the Janata Party that Swamy led in the 2000s and 2010s was largely a one-man show; I don't know that its members ever held elective office in that period, aside from a one-year Lok Sabha term for Swamy himself. I imagine it is possible to reconstruct its entire electoral history with sufficient digging around on the ECI's website, which I am not going to do; I did check it's status in 2010, though (here), and it was a "registered but unrecognized party", together with several hundred others. It is possible that sources discussing the Janata Party during this era specifically would describe it as "right-wing", to mirror Swamy's own views. However, that label cannot be uncritically applied to the 1970s Janata Party, and definitely not to the 1980s-90s Janata Dal. Vanamonde (Talk)22:18, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for that explainer, Vanamonde93! It is consistent with, and expands upon, the bits I knew.
Perhaps EPW has some articles on the post-90s history of the Janata Party. I'll leave it to editors more experienced in the area than I, to see if the missing years in the Janata Party article can be filled in. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 22:33, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
BLP violations
Two new users – BahujanBot and MrinalPurvanchali – have created BLP issues by adding a large number of entries to multiple caste lists. I have checked some of their additions and practically all of them were missing self-identification. But I am unable to check such a large number of sources. So their edits need to be crosschecked. Thanks. - NitinMlk (talk) 21:06, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
@NitinMlk: You are right about the needed self-identification standard for inclusion. And if these recent additions don't meet that standard on a spot-check, it is prudent, per WP:BLP, to first revert their addition and then for the individual names to be addded back to the article only if the cited sources support the self-identification. I thus reverted the additions at Ramdasia, Ahirwar, Punjabi Christians and Jatav, pointing to this discussion But there were a few other pages, such as List of Dalits, with non-trivial intervening edits by you and others; could you take a look at removing the recent additions from those? Abecedare (talk) 19:47, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
@Abecedare: thanks for fixing those pages. At the List of Dalits, I had removed just two of the BLP violations by user MrinalPurvanchali. But, based on your comment, I have reverted their edits now. And I have already crosschecked all the entries at Madiga. - NitinMlk (talk) 20:03, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
We are yet to fix the poor edits of the two users, and here comes a new one: BhaujanStar. It seems all three of these accounts belong to the same person, although I haven't looked carefully at their editing pattern. Maybe the latest account is in response to this comment. Anyway, the new editor has also added BLP violations, unreliable Raj-era sources, UGC, etc. - NitinMlk (talk) 19:11, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
INRConvert template and proposal to introduce conversions to UK/US numbering for rupee amounts
Dear editors,
Please see the discussion at Template_talk:INRConvert#Usage_of_lakh/crore_and_US/British/Canadian/ANZAC/Irish/etc_readers for my proposal to introduce conversions to UK/US numbering for rupee amounts (separate from conversions to foreign currency). I cited the WP:ENGVAR ideal of having internationally-understood writing, so having UK/US numbering helps UK/US/Canada/ANZAC/etc readers unfamiliar with South Asia.
I have nominated Mysore for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. DrKay (talk) 10:02, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
Indian government reports about aircraft accidents in the 1990s released online
The last peer review for Mumbai was done 11 years ago. Some suggestions were provided on fixing it but those weren't fixed. I recently fixed most of the issues pointed out in the suggestion. Since I'm a new editor I would really appreciate you guys to check the changes that I've made, and also improve the Mumbai article so that it can be nominated for FA.
this discussion at TfD could use more attention from people familiar with the topic. I ask that people familiarize themselves with the nature of sidebars and navboxes before commenting. Vanamonde (Talk)15:20, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
Hello. I nominated Jasraj for good article review. A review is underway. The reviewer has suggested that foreign language terms should be italicised. Per MOS:FOREIGNITALIC we should italicise 'isolated foreign words that do not yet have everyday use in non-specialized English' and this should be done using the {{lang}} tag, which identifies which language the word or phrase is using. I don't speak Hindi and I would appreciate if some editors that do could review the list at Talk:Jasraj/GA2#List of foreign language terms in the Jasraj article and help identify those which should be tagged as Hindi. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 11:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
I am looking for proactive expansion and update support/input help the following (So far neglected but important topic) articles, if possible. Even if you feel your focus area bit different still contribution of few line may help bring in some different perspective and also help Wikipedia goal of neutrality. If you can't spare time but if you know any good references you can note those on talk pages.
This has been posted to this forum since, one of article review suggested to have more diverse editor participation to have more inclusive, neutral and balanced worldview
I hope and request some editors from this forum too proactively and constructively participate in updating and expanding of article Islamic advice literature
At the moment, this category seems to be badly defined; it's being applied to a BJP member of parliament, Manish Grover, a 16th century religious leader, Vedavyasa Tirtha, and everyone in between. I could see it being a useful category for Hindu religious leaders, or for Hindu nationalist activists, or a few others, but I suspect that it would not see sufficient input at CfD, so bringing it here first. Going to CfD may or may not be necessary, depending on what opinions are expressed here. Vanamonde (Talk)03:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
He's a self-published author with no credentials except electronics engineering and business management but used in a very large number of articles.[9] 11:18, 8 June 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doug Weller (talk • contribs)
Disruptive editor
User Neeraj Puru is an SPA who has created a lot of disruption by adding unsourced/made-up content related to Saini caste. Nearly all of their unsourced or poorly sourced additions have been fixed, but a wrongly titled village article survived – see Talk:Bir Mangoli Sainian. And they are creating disruption there, although they have been warned previously. The user has already been given a final warning and is clearly WP:NOTHERE. So an admin intervention is needed here. - NitinMlk (talk) 18:52, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
I've blocked them for a short duration but this looks more like a CIR situation. {ping|Abecedare}}, could you take a look? --regentspark (comment) 00:01, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
RegentsPark, they are just interested in adding unsourced/OR claims about Saini caste and Dahiya, which is supposedly a clan of Sainis. And they have done same unsourced additions at the Hindi WP: [10]. I guess, with the course of time, Indian newspapers will probably copy/paste those claims. At least that is what's happening for a long time with made-up details of this project. BTW, thanks for the intervention. - NitinMlk (talk) 21:25, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
@RegentsPark: I am involved given that I commented at the move discussion at Talk:Bir_Mangoli_Sainian but can confirm that the user appears to be an SPA arguing from "personal knowledge" and unreliable sources such as wikipedia mirrors. They have made only two edits since the recent bock but those were at least partially disruptive. Can perhaps wait for the RM discussion to be closed but if such activities persist beyond that, a NOTHERE/CIR block may be called for. Abecedare (talk) 19:11, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
I have been poking my nose into, and hopefully improving some Indian & region BLPs recently, and was going through those on the List of deaths due to COVID-19. I noticed the this gent had been infected, but there was actually no source cited saying he had died, or why. I found an online source saying he had a heart attack, somewhere else said he had diabetes too, so it's possibly a death from COVID-19 complications. Which could possibly include a heart attack. My edit is here, using a Times of India source.
I found contradictory sources, so it seems possible there isn't any certain cause. I brought it here for input before removing any COVID-19 categories etc.
Is the K12 mountain in the Indian or the Pakistani controlled parts of Kashmir?
Could someone have a look at K12 (mountain)? There's been some recent back-and-forth, with editors variously claiming the place to be on either the Pakistani or the Indian side of the Line of Control. – Uanfala (talk)19:04, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
Good question. I thought google maps would give an answer but the line of control disappears from the map around K12. I guess the best way to figure it out is to see whether climbers ascend from India or from Pakistan. --regentspark (comment) 19:20, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
I tried to create an article on Gouranga Samanta, but I couldn't find anything else substantive than electoral results, so I kept it in draft (Draft:Gouranga Samanta). I'm a bit surprised, since he contested every assembly election in West Bengal 1951-1982 and again in 1991, under tickets of BBC, CPI, CPI(M) and BJS. There must be more material, at least offline, on this person - anyone who would be able to did anything up? Maybe a "Who's who" publication on the assembly members? --Soman (talk) 14:21, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
Hey all, recently deceased Sushant Singh Rajput's article is getting lots of attention, especially from previously sleeping accounts, like here. Some of the recent edits have endeavored to note a website that his "team" set up to catalogue his thoughts and dreams. I don't understand the academic value of this. It seems like people are just trying to drive traffic to his posthumous blog, but I might be hypersensitive. I'd appreciate more eyes on this. One editor asked a question about this and I responded on the talk page. Other input, would be appreciated. Regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 04:33, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Thanx man!!! We need to protect from such users who don't know much anything about topic and randomly edit wikipedia with poor sources. Taal Saptak (talk) 09:34, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Where is the Indian Express based?
It seems the article The Indian Express is contradictory about where the newspaper is based. One part says it's published in Mumbai but another said the head office is in Noida. https://indianexpress.com/contact-us/ gives a Noida contact address.
Hello, The State government of Tamil Nadu has issued orders changing names of over 1000 places in that state. You can see about that here. Unsurprisingly, Move pages without seeking consensus has already begun. It includes major cities like Coimbatore, Triplicane, Vellore, Dharmapuri etc. What can be done to tackle this? Can we get a move protection on these pages? Thanks--Ab207 (talk) 18:25, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
My initial reply was:-
Hi Ab207 - I wish I could help, but Wikipedia will not protect things in case they are vandalized/altered against WP:COMMONNAME, it will only protect things that are being vandalized/altered against WP:COMMONNAME. That said, changing the name of 1018 places all at once is unprecedented even by Indian standards, and checking each one of them is going to be a nightmare. Let me think about this - Arjayay (talk) 19:26, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
Does anyone have any ideas? or is there an admin willing to move-protect 1018 articles to prevent the inevitable chaos? as almost nobody does all the re-linking and clearing up required when an article is moved. - Arjayay (talk) 19:38, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
220 of BorgThat's what it seems to be. Quoting News 18:
The move's stated purpose, though, was to bring back the way cities were called to their ancient nomenclatures, and it started two years ago when the government said anglicised names should be renamed closer to their original Tamil names.
Field Marshal? Sir, yes SIR!. Thank you, SIR! 'Field Marshal Aryan'? Did that cause any controversy when you created the account?
'Changing' so many city names seems a bit crazy, but it seems to be more a pronunciation and speeling issue. Some of them seemed to be much the same as before, at least I could see the similarity. I can imagine besuited, sweating, stiff-lipped British bureaucrats trying to 'translate' local Indian names into The Queen's English! I'm considering how maps, atlases and books and such need to be updated, but so much of that is in digital format now, so maybe not such a big job. Anyway, Thank you, SIR! Permission to be dismissed SAH! 220ofBorg13:27, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
Update: Looks like the order has been withdrawn[11] due to backlash, One may point this out in case any move request is made.--Ab207 (talk) 13:00, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
Hi I’m a new page reviewer and lately I’ve seen a lot of stubs created about villages in India that use odd-looking sources. The sources I’m familiar with are official census records and pin code directories. Lately a lot of them refer to a site called “Our Hero”. Is there a consensus on what reference sites are reliable for villages in India? What is the view on the reliability of “Our Hero”? Many thanks. Mccapra (talk) 10:58, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
Hello! I want to get a feedback on the article and some suggestions to improve it. If you think that no improvements are required then please help me by Approving the article. It has all references and is properly linked to other Wiki pagesSinghPurnima72 (talk) 10:06, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
Malayalam language help
Hi all, I'm looking at this reference and I was hoping that someone familiar with Malayalam could tell me what the budget and gross of Rajavinte Makan were. I don't trust the Google translation, because I've sometimes seen them translate crore into millions. Thank you, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 01:16, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
Siya Kakkar
Some sources stated that the death date of Siya Kakkar was on 25 June 2020 but the IP edits changed it to 24 June 2020. The majority of the sources also stated that she died at the age of 16 but the IP edits have changed it as at the age of 15. Even there is a confusion regarding the actual birth date of her which is making difficulties to add the correct age of the subject. Abishe (talk) 04:59, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
Noticeboard discussion on reliability of certain types of Indian newspaper articles
Could someone have a look at Sikhs for Justice? The recent additions are so bad that I was tempted to revert to the 5 March version, but then that version had some oddities of its own (like the statement about the mass appreciation for the Punjab and Indian government by the international and local Sikh community). – Uanfala (talk)19:37, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
Good-faith disruption
With edits like [12], [13], [14], etc., it seems an editor has added an unnecessary sentence in the leads of a large number of Indian/Pakistani village articles in the last two days: [15]. So there is a need for mass rollback or something. Thanks. - NitinMlk (talk) 21:05, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
Hey all, I'm asking some questions at the technical village pump about availability of a tool that will remove inactive users from lists like Wikipedia:WikiProject India/Members. To me, it seems rather pointless keeping a user on such a list if the user hasn't edited in a year or more. Why?
If such a list is intended to help other editors find like-minded users interested in Indian subjects, then the list is useless if you can never find active members in a sea of inactive ones.
If mailing lists are generated based on these entries (note that most of them are formatted with the {{Mailing list member}} template) then we're sending communications to people who probably aren't interested. I'm sure this has some kind of impact to bandwidth and space.
There are lots of little add-your-name lists like this around the project, for instance at WP:SVT. Anyway, if the community is interested in culling this list, I can see if someone can help design a tool for it. Thoughts? I know it's not a huge priority, just thought I could help do some gnoming here. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 21:18, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
@Field Marshal Aryan: See this edit. Now, thanks to Naypta's cool pruning tool, inactive members can be automatically removed each week if they exceed the arbitrary threshold I set, which is probably pretty generous at 1 year of inactivity and 6 months of being indeffed. It might actually be better to bump those numbers a bit lower if people want a semi-accurate list. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 22:30, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
Hello, I was about to create an article for the historic William Emerson-Lockwood Kipling fountain inside the Crawford Market (which I'll get to), but got sidetracked by the market's Wiki name. Per COMNAME, I'm proposing Mahatma Jyotiba Phule Mandai be renamed Crawford Market, as it was moved unilaterally without any discussion/consensus with this edit in 2015. (I also notice an old talk page comment by User:Nichalp justifying their earlier revert per commonname.) All reliable newspapers continue to use Crawford Market, see The Hindu, Mint, Washington Post, Guardian, Telegraph, Statesman and all the rest. The only website is titled crawford-market.com, plus Trip Advisor & Lonely Planet too. I wanted to be BOLD, but thought it better to run it past more experienced eds here. Thanks, CallMeByYourMane (talk) 08:04, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
Okay, great, I've taken the liberty to do so. While at it, changed Babulnath to Babulnath Temple as well, per COMMONNAME, and to avoid confusion, as the neighbourhood is now called Babulnath. Regards, CallMeByYourMane (talk) 17:46, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
Hello, can anyone tell me which Odisha Article is considered as reliable reference for new article ??
Waiting for valuable answer. Bijoyonline30 (talk) 07:19, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
Attention to the disambiguation page for these people and to all of the articles listed here will be appreciated. Are they all listed correctly? Robert McClenon (talk) 06:55, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
Robert McClenon they seem to be listed correctly to me. What makes you wonder? The linked articles are sourced so I'm not sure what the issue may be, aside from probably the usual copyediting etc. - Sitush (talk) 07:28, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
User:Sitush - I created the disambiguation page, and wanted to be sure that I was not making any mistakes. I wanted to know if I had read the locations of the legislators correctly. I accepted one that needed copy-editing because it did not seem to be in proper Indian English. (I think I can read Indian English. I think I can read Australian English. I think I can read British English.) I wanted to be sure that I was correctly reading badly written articles that had to be accepted because they passed political notability. We also get stubs on American state legislators that are in bad American English. Robert McClenon (talk) 14:32, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
User:Sitush - By correctly, I meant disambiguated correctly. The two legislators appeared to be from the same state, so I tried to list them by district (I think those are the same as what we call counties). It isn't very often that I have to disambiguate politicians from the same state. (But maybe certain Indian names are used in certain states.) I asked for help because one of them was a mess, as you said. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:41, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
I've been seeing a lot of dalit communities suddenly having dozens of heroic figures in their past being lauded, among them Uda Devi and Bijli Pasi. The latter is very clearly revisionist history, but in re-reading Devi's article I'm starting to wonder if it's not more of the same - propping up a potentially real historical figure to "legendary" status in (what I assume is) some sort of bid to ignore centuries of caste-based societal issues. What's the best way to deal with these sorts of pages, when there will of course exist tons of references (all written in the last ten years) that claims these people existed and were basically superheros? Primefac (talk) 13:26, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
Yes, and a lot of this type of stuff originated with Deepcruze (talk·contribs) (not particularly these two articles, just the general trend of voicing Dalit activism here - they were blocked recently, IIRC). I looked at Uda Devi recently. The difficulty we have is, revisionist or not, if reliable sources cover it then so can we. We host all sorts of articles about things that are ridiculous and debunked - flat earth etc - because they are covered in RS. The key becomes to ensure that the revisionist nature of the subject is made clear, where possible. - Sitush (talk) 13:29, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
Guhathakurta family of Barisal
Guhathakurta family of Barisal - notable? I can find mentions written by an academic who bears the same name, so probably not independent, and a bunch of obscurely published stuff by Swami Paramananda that has passing mentions etc. Can't seem to find much that discusses them as a family and is definitely independent. - Sitush (talk) 08:03, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
I am not even sure it is the source. It looks to me like someone has inserted a bunch of material in front of this book as an existing source. And if the book really does say things like kshatriya Yadav then it has to be suspect. - Sitush (talk) 17:33, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
Sitush, the edit in question is unsourced. in fact, it didn't provide any source. There is a Hindi language source visible at the bottom of the text added by the anon. But that source was added by another anon in December 2019 with this edit. That anon cited the source for Phatak Ahirs. I have only a snippet view of the source, and it does support the claim of anon related to Phatak Ahirs, although there is no mention of Sisodia or "Digpal" in it. Here is the relevant quote from the page nos. 3 & 4 of the source:
मैनपुरी जनपद में हिन्दुओं की अनेक उल्लेखनीय जातियाँ बसी हुई हैं। इनमें कुछ जातियाँ ऐतिहासिक हैं। अहीर अथवा यादवों में फाटक गोत्र के अहीर विशेष उल्लेखनीय हैं । ये अपने को चित्तौड़ के राजपूत राजा का वंशज बताते हैं जिसने महाबन के अहीर राजा की पुत्री से विवाह किया था । पुरानी दन्तकथा के आधार पर इनका कहना है जब दिल्ली सम्राट ने चित्तौड़ पर आक्रमण किया था इन्होंने दुर्ग के फाटकों की रक्षा करने में शौर्य का परिचय दिया था । तभी से ये फाटक गोत्र से सम्बोधित होने लगे । कालान्तर में चित्तौड़ राजा एवं उनकी अहीर रानी के वंशज सबसे पहले सामोहन में आकर बसे । धीरे-धीरे यमुना के किनारे ये लोग फैल गये ।
Here is its translation by Google Translate, although I fixed it a bit:
Many notable castes of Hindus are inhabited in Mainpuri district. Some of these castes are historical. Among the Ahir or Yadavs, Ahirs of the Phatak gotra are particularly notable. They describe themselves as descendants of the Rajput king of Chittor who married the daughter of the Ahir king of Mahaban. Based on the old legend, they say that when the Delhi Emperor attacked Chittor, they showed valour in protecting the Phataks [which means gates/entrances] of the fort. Since then, they have been addressed as Phatak gotra. Later, the descendants of the Chittor king and his Ahir queen first settled in Samohan. Gradually these people spread on the banks of the Yamuna.
There is a need for those who can speak and read the relevant languages to find references for OneOTT Intertainment, a corporation which seems to me to be notable, to place those better references in the article and to participate wisely in the AfD please. FiddleFaddle10:24, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
Film songs in Classical music raga articles
The Indian classical music raga articles (Category:Janya Ragas and Category:Melakarta Ragas) are having tons of film songs related information and links being added irrationally. Most of the film songs do not strictly adhere to the ragas. They are not the right examples to be quoted in an encyclopedia. Many are not notable and there is likely that we will not find a reliable reference to a song being composed in the specific raga where it is added. It is a total mess. Many of the edits are from IP Addresses, which only makes it difficult to even start any conversation. Wonder how this will be dealt with! VasuVR (talk, contribs) 06:35, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
Hello, I intend to perform a little cleanup on our WikiProject banner template but some of the changes would need community approval. Please give your views on the following:
Maintain uniformity in the icons of the sub-wikiprojects/taskforces of various states.
Currently some of the state WikiProject icons are a zoomed in image of their map while some of them are official seal of the states. I plan to either have seals for all of them or replace all of them with the state map (hoping for the latter as they are more identifiable and easy to find + some copyright issue might pop up even though it hasn't for the ones that are being used).
Remove flag of Kashmir from icon and replace with seal or State map'
I figured this might be controversial but it was relinquished last year so I see no point in keeping it.
I don't think anybody would mind if you made these changes, they seem reasonable. You are right about state maps, they are more recognisable. I know you know what you're doing with templates, but just a gentle reminder to sandbox first as the template is transcluded on 218583 pages. Thanks for updating the banner Zindor (talk) 21:31, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
Name of Nayudamma Yelevarthy / Yelevarthy Nayudamma ?
I had moved to Yelevarthy Nayudamma to Nayudamma Yelevarthy when I found in the Canadian government report on AI182 that "Yelevarthy" is the family name, and the Canadian report put the family name last. However is it the case that Telugu names are family name first?
The report does state on page 62/220: "In the literature, his name often appears as Yelevarthy (or Yelavarthy) Nayudamma. The family name “Yelevarthy” has been confirmed and that is the form used in this report."
@WhisperToMe: I can confirm that Yelavarthy is the family name while Nayudamma is the given name. Telugu people usually put surname first (More info at Telugu name).
However, I'd recommend not to change the native name order, unless western name order is widely used in reliable sources. The family name can be clarified using the hatnote {{Telugu name}} -- Ab207 (talk) 13:46, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
Could some members from WP:INDIA take a look at this and assess it? There are some formatting and MOS issues that need sorting out, but that’s fairly easy to do butif this person meets WP:NPOL. — Marchjuly (talk) 22:28, 20 July 2020 (UTC); [Note: Post edited by Marchjuly to change “but” to “if”. — 11:21, 22 July 2020 (UTC)]
Update: The creator of this article has been blocked per WP:SOCK and the article has been tagged for speedy deletion per WP:G5; so, if someone feels this is worth keep and just needs some cleanup, they will need to move quickly before the article is deleted. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:43, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
No idea why someone tried to speedy a bio about a government minister as such people are inherently notable. I've sorted out the basics but the article needs to be expanded. - Sitush (talk) 10:37, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for taking a look Sitush. The article was most likely tagged for speedy because of WP:EVADE. Some feel that all contributions made by block-evading SOCKs should be reverted. It should no longer be an issue as long as a non-involved editor like yourself is now working on the article. — Marchjuly (talk) 11:17, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
No. We have policies and guidelines for a reason and the titles of these articles suggest there is no way they will meet the criteria. Nothing to do with "right-wing propagandists", and I suggest you read WP:NPA. - Sitush (talk) 10:13, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
Actually, I see you are evading the indefinite block imposed some days ago by Bishonen and subsequently endorsed on your appeal. It is not a good idea. - Sitush (talk) 13:57, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
I am Atif Afzal, a music composer for films. Originally from India, I am now based in New York. I would like my page to be created. I did some research and found out that I qualify for Wikipedia inclusion under WP:MUSICBIO and WP:COMPOSER.
I have been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, notable published works with references that comply WP:SIGCOV and WP:RS –
Administrator note WikiProject India members: it is worth noting that an article on this subject did exist, but was deleted by Yamla, after the user who created it was found to be engaging in undisclosed paid editing. So a cynical administrator might wonder if maybe now the subject is looking to self-promote for free? Cyphoidbomb (talk) 22:09, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
AAComposer, Provided you go via WP:AFC which is a restriction placed upon all editors with a conflict of interest you are allowed to DRAFT an article about yourself and to submit it for review by experienced reviewers.
This is not an easy road. It is far better to wait until you are noticed by someone else who chooses to wrote about you
Ask yourself, "Why do I want a Wikipedia article about me, to be edited by anyone who wishes, an article I cannot control at all?" and consider making a web site or a blog instead, FiddleFaddle22:17, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
Also please note that a lot of the sources quoted above do not pass WP:RS. Spotify, Apple Music, etc. are not national music charts, they are music download/streaming websites. iMDb is a user-edited database and not considered a reliable source. The subject's own Soundcloud channel would not be considered independent, and in any case a 53-second clip is not "a substantial broadcast segment". Being mentioned in Business Standard does not make the subject is "one of the most prominent representatives of a notable style". All the Times of India sources are either passing mentions (not "the subject" of the article), or an interview with the subject, which is a WP:PRIMARY source. It is true the subject has been mentioned in reliable sources, has composed music which has been released on major record labels, and has been nominated for a Mirchi Award, so it is still possible that they pass WP:NMUSICIAN. But most of the sources mentioned above can be discounted immediately. Richard3120 (talk) 23:49, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
Hey all, I don't know where the best place to bring this up is, because nobody at WikiProject Television will ever talk to me if I bring up Indian television, just like the people at WikiProject Film won't talk to me if I bring up Indian films.
I'm trying to figure out what value certain awards like Gold Awards and Lions Gold Awards have in Indian biographies. Today I saw some back-and-forth happening about the notability of Kaveri Priyam (now moved back to Draft space) and part of the argument was that she won a Lions Gold Award, and was nominated for a Gold Award. I've seen both of these awards a lot in Indian biographies, but I don't get the sense that any of them are well-managed or meaningful.
For instance, looking at the article on the Gold Awards, I find that goldawards.in is their web presence. But there's nothing there. It's an ugly, empty website with no substantive content. This perplexes me. If this entity doesn't even bother maintaining a list of nominees and winners, then what academic purpose does the award have? Is it just a promotional money grab? I notice that it was previously called the Boroplus Gold Awards—is that some sort of skin care brand? That might answer my question...
Same with Lions Gold Awards, only I can't even find an online presence for their awards. While the Lions Club might be a notable organisation, that doesn't necessarily mean that awards issued by their Mumbai chapter would be notable in any way. After all, what expertise does a fraternal service organisation have in film and TV criticism, and why would we care what they think?
As some of you are likely aware, award mills are problematic across all Indian entertainment articles, so the more clarity I can get, the easier it will be to maintain these articles. Many non-notable awards are used to fluff up actor bios here. I also notice anecdotally, that usually the sites that care about either of these awards, tend to be fringe sites like Pinkzilla and Filmibeat. For example this editor wanted to inflate the Award section at Digangana Suryavanshi, and I could not find a source other than Filmibeat for the Lions Gold Award for "favourite versatile actress". (Also, yes, I'm aware that those Dadasaheb Phalke awards are not legit.)
I have always removed Lions and also Rotary Club awards because they're almost always done at a local or regional level rather than national. As you say, the bodies may be notable but the awards are not as they reflect more on the awarder than the awardee. Hence, many awardees have more widely recognised baubles to their credit even before the Lions or Rotary step in. But this is just a general thing I do, not one that is specific to TV. I don't think I've ever been challenged about it and I rather suspect that a rule of thumb that says "if the award itself does not have a article then don't bother mentioning it" would be ok.Do we have a centralised list for such dodgy awards relating to Indian entertainment? It would be handy to have, especially if it linked back to the consensus-forming discussion/RfC. - Sitush (talk) 17:32, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
I don't know of a centralised list of such awards, but I'd be happy to compile it if we could come to an agreement on some good and bad awards here. That said, both Lions Gold and Gold Awards both have articles, so that would be an argument for inclusion in contrast to your first sentence. Although I don't know that notability was properly established in either. I tend to agree that if an award doesn't have an article, it should be omitted, per WP:FILMCRITICLIST. However I've seen some people try to skirt that by creating articles about the questionably-notable award. I also know that awards like the Star Parivaar might be notable, but since they are in-house awards that only lavish praise on their own employees and shows, it's ultimately a garbage award. (Consensus already exists to exclude Star Parivaar). I personally think that any in-house award should be omitted. I also tend to think that any award voted on by the general public should probably be excluded, however my position might conflict with the way the WikiProject Television/Film communities might accept the Kids' Choice Awards. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:22, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
Yes, I was speaking more generally of Lions awards rather than specifically of the Gold ones (I rarely touch TV/film stuff). That said, Lions Gold Awards is pretty useless, isn't it? Assuming it is complete, the categories seem to change from one year to the next, including flipping between Favourite xyz and Best xyz. I'd still argue they say more about the awarder than the awardee, and I'm not at all sure why it is the Mumbai chapter (?) of the Lions that does the awarding rather than some higher-level national body or each chapter making its own decisions. As you say, they have no obvious expertise. - Sitush (talk) 18:31, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
It's television, not film. What is India's equivalent to an Emmy or Critic's Choice award? Is commercial television in India the same as it is in the US or UK? Consider the population: India 1.352 billion (2019); the US 328.2 million (2019); UK 66.65 million (2019). India's first televised soap opera was in 1984. There are a lot of variables to consider. AtsmeTalk📧20:03, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
Atsme did you read what I said or just what you wanted to see? And did you notice that the linked article refers to film as well as TV? I've no idea why you think any variables matter - I'm wasn't comparing these Indian awards with any awards in other countries. - Sitush (talk) 23:22, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
Yessss...and what makes you think I didn't? The OP mentioned WikiProject Television, and the BLP that inspired this discussion received the award for her role in a TV drama (or soap opera). So why don't you think variables matter, not that it matters? AtsmeTalk📧17:13, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
I am not responding further to you here, sorry. No desire to get involved in a prolonged discussion with someone like you. - Sitush (talk) 19:10, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
Hi, could an admin, or someone who can, please move Jyotirmath to Joshimath (it's the other way round currently) per WP:COMMONNAME, as no one ever refers to it with the Sanskritized Jyotirmath (except perhaps the temple priests there). See NYTimes, Guardian, Statesman, Lonely Planet, TOI, Uttarakhand Tourism website, and on and on and on... I tried doing so, but it's giving me a red banner of "page already exists" (course it does - it's a redirect, doh). Thanks a bunch! CallMeByYourMane (talk) 11:01, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
This is ridiculous forum shopping. You have a thread going at WP:RSN about this issue also. Have you not just come out of a situation where you were trying to force an issue by side-stepping the processes - ANI/dispute resolution/some arbitration noticeboard? - Sitush (talk) 15:58, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
Please don't tell me how RfCs work. I'm not an idiot, nor a newbie. You're running one and simultaneously asking a highly related question using the same article and sources etc at WP:RSN. It is not the posting of a link to the RfC here that is the shopping. - Sitush (talk) 16:13, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
@MarkH21: Just a minor point, you placed a !vote in the Survey part of the RfC, which isn't good practice and can be confusing to other editors and those closing the rfc. It's already assumed you support your own proposal, so please your keep reasoning there. Zindor (talk) 17:26, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
@Zindor: Since sometimes an RfC includes multiple options and since RfCs can only have a timestamp rather than a signature (see WP:RFCOPEN), it's standard to !vote on an RfC that an editor opens. I can add a note pointing out that I am the proposer, if you still think it would be confusing. — MarkH21talk17:35, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
It's entirely possible to use 4 tildes, as RFCOPEN states. When i used to frequent the FRS it was far from standard to !vote on your own proposal. Apologies if i'm wrong and practice has changed since then. Zindor (talk) 17:52, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
Sorry, I meant that RfCs can have just a timestamp (not "can only have"). Also per WP:RFCBRIEF: If you have lots to say on the issue, give and sign a brief statement in the initial description and publish the page, then edit the page again and place additional comments below your first statement and timestamp. It wouldn't have been neutral or brief for me to include my rationale in the RfC statement itself, it would have to go in the RfC comments.Anyways, I added a comment next to my !vote that I am the nominator, so it should be clear to the closer. — MarkH21talk19:27, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
Could somebody look at Draft:Powari language and figure out if there's anything worth salvaging there? It's been kicking around draft space for two years. Nobody wants to get rid of it, but nobody's working on it either. One reviewer felt it might not even meet WP:V. Attention from somebody who is familiar with Indian languages is needed. -- RoySmith(talk)22:45, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
Changes to structure/sections of Indian city pages
Can websites which are potentially dangerous be linked on talk pages? (I don't want to do it of course, I am asking if someone else could do it on my talk page) DTM (talk) 13:30, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
Not sure what to do about Mohamed Ashik but it looks like the gullible Indian media falling into a trap again. The boy's "world records" have come from organisations that are the equivalent to degree mills and which have been deprecated on Wikipedia, eg: Record Holders Republic (there is a reason that is a redlink!). - Sitush (talk) 18:39, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
Noticeboard discussion on reliability of The Hindu
Am i right in thinking there is a tool for fixing double-redirects? I seem to be moving pages a lot and it's a pain changing the inbound links beforehand. Thanks Zindor (talk) 19:33, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
Thanks yeah i might seek them if this trend carries on. I can't seem to assess an article for the drive without getting knee-deep in other edits. Zindor (talk) 19:48, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
More eyes would be appreciated at this discussion This is not my area of expertise. There is content in his Activism section that was recently changed.
Short story: Women of childbearing age were banned from entering the Sabarimala temple. There are differing views on why that is. In 2018, the Supreme Court lifted the ban. Easwar and people aligned with him protested the ruling.
Self claims of descent — castes/clans of India and Pakistan
Hello! In several articles on castes/clans of the India and Pakistan, there are mentions of that particular caste/clan claiming descent from "X" (self claim) (X = another race/tribe/caste/clan), though, with citations/sources. Still, is that not compromising the quality of the content? Can we discuss removing that from the articles? Thanks, Мастер Шторм (talk) 14:03, 28 July 2020 (UTC)Мастер Шторм (talk) 14:12, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
Мастер Шторм We generally allow the mention if it is reliably sourced, ie: not sourced to publications produced by caste associations etc but rather to independent academics. That is because independent academics usually do go to the trouble to debunk the claims where appropriate, or support them in the (admittedly rare) event that the claims are reasonable. Obviously, if the claim is of ancestry involving some deity then that is myth/legend. - Sitush (talk) 17:34, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
EB1911
Occasionally, someone goes on a burst of adding {{EB1911 Poster}} to various articles, as has just happened at Mahar. The template links to the article's equivalent entry in the 1911 edition of Encyclopaedia Britannica on Wikisource. Ok, Wikisource does have a generic disclaimer - see here - regarding the accuracy or otherwise of EB1911, particularly for certain subjects such as ethnography. Nonetheless, I really don't see the point in linking to what is often nonsense, vastly superseded by more recent research and often enough demonstrating precisely the sort of colonial misunderstandings, such as scientific racism, that led to us deciding generally not to use Raj era publications as sources. As far as I am concerned, the use of these templates is more to do with spamming Wikisource on Wikipedia than with intelligently informing our readers. Does anyone else agree that including them is a poor idea in these circumstances? - Sitush (talk) 17:31, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
I thought we avoided citing tertiary sources, as normal practice, but then i just looked at WP:TERTIARY which makes no attempt at discouraging their use. There's always the inherent risk that a tertiary source can be a bias synthesis of cherry-picked secondary sources. How do we fix this EB problem, local policy like we did with indicscript? Zindor (talk) 20:00, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
EB1911 as a tertiary source is pretty much already covered for India stuff by long-standing consensus regarding avoidance of Raj era sources. Obviously, there are exceptions where a Raj era source might have a valid use but they're rare in my experience. However, this does not cover sticking the template I mentioned into articles - it's basically another form of external link but to a WMF project, similar to {{Commonscat}}. I just don't see the point in doing it and I'm not at all convinced that any reader who did click on it would notice or take heed of the disclaimer that Wikisource has put in place for their EB1911 pages. - Sitush (talk) 20:13, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
I see what you mean now. What a headbanger. The EB1911 template utilizes the 'sister project' template, so it comes under interwiki links, which have no policy for linking. External link policy wouldn't explicitly bar the inclusion either. MOS INDIA would cover the inclusion of templates in India-related articles, so if consensus is gained there then problem solved. Cheers, Zindor (talk) 20:56, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
Do we really need project-specific guidelines? The EB1911 content on most Indian topics is vastly outdated, but so it is on many other topics, like particle physics or African archaeology. Surely we should be able to rely on editors using their common sense? – Uanfala (talk)11:30, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
Can someone please read the Tamil text (on the board and on the wall in red) from Vishalakshi temple. The caption in the article is "Kashi Vishalakshi Temple Tamil Inscription which shows Temple Consecrated held in 1908AD". On the board, I can read 1971, which tallies with a ref saying that the temple was renovated in the year.--RedtigerxyzTalk16:30, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
I'm sure someone will have a translation for you. But i was interested so i desaturated the photo and read the English. I can see "Shri Visalakshi Mandip Varanasi renovated(?) new #### installed and consecrated on November 1 1971 #### ############ Nagarathars". Cheers, Zindor (talk) 17:36, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
Thanks Zindor, this matches with the secondary ref already in place. Someone has added the image with caption "Kashi Vishalakshi Temple Tamil Inscription which shows Temple Consecrated held in 1908AD". Also, the ref added "சோமலெ (1963). காசி நாட்டுக்கோட்டை நகரச் சத்திர வரலாறு. தமிழ் நாடு. p. 43." is added. Can someone please read it. --RedtigerxyzTalk13:39, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
Hey does anyone know how to properly refer to Aditi Rao Hydari with respect to WP:SURNAME? Would it be Rao Hydari, as though it were hyphenated, as her parents have Rao and Hydari as surnames, or would we just use Hydari? Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 00:43, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
There's too much Swaminarayan pov-pushing at too many Wikipedia articles at the moment, exaggerating the importance of Swaminarayan. This may be the most stunning one, but see also Hinduism and Vedanta. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk!04:56, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
Requesting images of splendid wall paintings from Dehradun
Oh well, just thought I'd give this a shot. If anyone reading this stays in Dehradun, would you please be so kind as to visit Guru Ram Rai Darbar Sahib some day (not urgent), and take some images for Wiki Commons of the profoundly beautiful wall paintings there - some belong to the Garhwali School, 17th century? And also the main structure and the Mughal-style gardens? Not a single modern-day image exists on Wiki of this culturally and architecturally important monument, or one documenting the historic wall paintings -- could only find a historic image to use in the article. I would have very much loved to be able to drive there (from Delhi) just to take these images myself, but am not sure if people are being stopped at the state border or if we need a Covid negative report. Apparently, some wall paintings are in bad shape and it would be nice to include a gallery in the article highlighting this relatively little known treasure in Dehradun. Fingers crossed! CallMeByYourMane (talk) 15:05, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
I'm trying to verify that Ashok Kumar Dogra was indeed an MLA for Ramban, but I'm having difficulty finding an RS for election returns. [16] says he won in 2008, but the official results posted by the Election Commission ([17]) seem to go back only to 2009. Anyone know where I could find a good source? (Article's been tagged for notability since 2017 and I'm trying to establish that its subject meets WP:NPOL.) Thanks! AleatoryPonderings (talk) 00:53, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
I had a look into this for you. I found an RS source (ECI) here. If you download the file and scroll down to page 6 you'll find the info. Thanks, Zindor (talk) 11:37, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
Background: the article Allahabad has an edit notice (here) to attempt to deal with the constant attempts to alter it to "Prayagraj". Other articles may have similar notices. How do we know if this, or any edit notice is working? That is the topic of the discussion at the Village pump, and your feedback would be welcome. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 21:06, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
Wikipedia and Wikipedia editors "Biased, anti-Hindu"
After Wikipedia urged donations from Indian users some Twitter users (including David Frawley) claimed Wikipedia was anti-Hindu, which ThePrint has reported on (2 Aug). Pages commented on include 2020 Delhi riots and Jai Shree Ram. David Frawley also tweeted "Wikipedia has published many questionable statements about Hindu writers, leaders, causes and historical issues... Hindus should protest its anti-Hindu views". If true or even partly, this bias needs to be identified. DTM (talk) 10:29, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
Religious right-wingers are mad because Wikipedia is reporting on unpleasant facts that make them look and feel bad? What else is new. ~Swarm~{sting}10:42, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
I wish someone would give a long list of the bias or anti-Hindu views they are talking about rather than just mention two examples. What are the other "unpleasant facts"? DTM (talk) 10:48, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
I reported this campaign at WP:AN prior to The Print. As for Frawley, we really shouldn't be using him as a source for anything ... and I do hope we are not. He's as bad as Koenraad Elst. - Sitush (talk) 11:05, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
But he hasn't said that he wrote any article on the subject, refer to the link in my previous comment. Also, kindly don't mistake me for someone arguing the case for RM. In my assessment, there is no accessible way to confirm or deny the truth of what he has said. I found the discussion here absurdly one-sided and merely stated some facts that point to a more neutral view. - Mukt (talk) 18:38, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
He gave a "talk" which got published in their magazine. If this is not the talk he was referring to, then I would conclude that he had stopped complaining about "Wikipedia" by 2001. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 06:45, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
Religious fundamentalists everywhere have a well-known allergy to factual information. We've been accused of denigrating Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, and most other religious denominations; and often it's the same articles and the same editors they find fault with. If, in the course of a day's editing, I'm accused of being both anti-Islam and anti-Hindu, I have a fair degree of confidence that I'm doing something right. When these criticisms come from mainstream scholars, we should take them seriously; this campaign is just something to be wary of when patrolling for disruptive edits. Vanamonde (Talk)14:50, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
Why's that? Have you seen any assertions in articles that Wikipedia is biased against Islam and Christianity? I didn't say we were biased; I said we've been accused by fundamentalists of being biased. I'm not proposing to add or remove content anywhere, so I'm not going to do your homework for you here; evidence of accusations is easy to find. Vanamonde (Talk)19:09, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
The issue here is Wikipedia's anti-Hindu bias, and the claims documented have not been made by Hindu fundamentalists. Why do claims of denigration of any other religion come into discussion at all is beyond my understanding. But, if they are relevant, maybe one should get a good understanding of what those claims are rather than reading idle gossip about them. - Mukt (talk) 01:19, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
In the past couple of years, though the Hindutva-propagation of the indigenous Aryans position has never been taken serious by mainstream scholarship. As for your other questions, I'm unable to give an answer; it's not clear to me what you are asking. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk!18:57, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
I suggest you forget about Frawley and Malhotra, and state what you see as "anti-Hindu bias" in Wikipedia, keeping Wikipedia's policies of WP:RS and WP:NPOV in mind. Perhaps list 3 things so that we can keep the discussion focused. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 07:35, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
Really funny. I had written quite a bit about it in my sandbox, but you yourself deleted it Kautilya3. If anyone attempts documenting things here, someone like you will put it somewhere inaccessible again. I am sorry, but wikipedia has repeatedly demonstrated itself unworthy of handling this discussion. It is better for now that discussion happens outside of this website, and wikipedia gets a chance to adapt later. - Mukt (talk) 14:03, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
I admit that my memory is not that good, but I am sure I would remember it if I had to go to the extent of deleting stuff in somebody's sandbox. But I don't see anything having been written or deleted in your sandbox. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 14:52, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
My bad, and I apologize. Apparently it was done when you and I were embroiled in another matter of anti-Hindu editing here. Though it wasn't you but [u|EI C] who deleted it. And that does show up in deletion log. None of this changes my contention that wikipedia is unfit for this discussion. - Mukt (talk) 18:43, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
Ok, never mind the sandbox then. But you still haven't pointed out anything that you see as "anti-Hindu". You are going to come across as pretty hollow if, having started a thread with this claim, you can't point out any single instance of it. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 19:06, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
This website's current position on the matter is that its own anti-Hindu bias must be discussed but can't approve of any source that talks about it - despite acknowledging that they exist. Months ago, when I was documenting exactly what is being sought, it was deleted from my sandbox by no less than an administrator of the website. And you think I am the one who appears hollow? Ohhhkaaayy. - Mukt (talk) 20:07, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
This "website", as you correctly recognise, is a website. It does not have a mind and it does not have a "position". It is governed by policies, and it has the goal of summarising reliable sources for the benefit of general public.
These policies and guidelines are public and anybody can critique them any time they wish. When those critiques reach the threshold of reliability, they might get covered on the page on Wikipedia. If the policies need revision, those issues should be raised at WP:Village pump. As a first step, you might raise them here to get initial feedback. But all I see you doing right now is to throw some stones in the dark and hoping that they will hit something. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 09:36, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
Saffron infoboxes
Where would be the best place to talk about the usage of saffron in infoboxes related to India? Yesterday I went ahead and changed the colour of some of these to green (like the bottom part of the Indian tri-colour is green or the leaves of a lotus).
Yogi Adityanath - this has already been changed back to saffron. (edit summary:Green doesn't signify yogiji. So changed the box color)
Mahant Swami Maharaj - this also has already been changed back to saffron. (edit summary:Reverting to keep colors consistent with similar articles)
Is there a reason green is preferable to saffron? The current colour seems quite complementary to the images in these articles. The most fitting venue for a discussion on this would be Wikipedia talk:WikiProject India/Infoboxes, with a notification placed here on the central discussion. Regards, Zindor (talk) 15:03, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
Zindor, Apollo1203: Thank you for the replies. I just had some doubts because RSS, Hinduism, Hindutva, Mahants, the Prime Minister of India... are all related to Hindu philosophy in a different way, and the relation of some keep changing. If former PM Manmohan Singh didn't have a saffron coloured box, it is debatable why PM Modi should have. During the Ram Mandir Bhoomi Pooja the idol of Ram was supposedly wrapped in green with saffron edges (see image here). The usage of only saffron is popular but misleading. Colourless is much better, at least for the PM's infobox, irrespective of what the text says. Will shift to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject India/Infoboxes. DTM (talk) 15:19, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
@DiplomatTesterMan: I'm not opposed to us carrying on this thread here for the time being as we may reach consensus fairly fast, although i am highly aware that every time i post i'm tripping someones watchlist lol. I was just suggesting that venue because i thought you might want to start an RfC. Regards, Zindor (talk) 18:13, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
Insightful. Now, the relevant question is: are all of these individuals relevant to Hindu philosophy? - Mukt (talk) 18:56, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
Green colour seems to be associated with articles related to Islam. I make no comment on its suitability for anything. - Mukt (talk) 19:04, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
Honestly, none of the political infoboxes should be colored. Colors are often used for their symbolic significance by politicians; I see no reason why we should implicitly endorse or reject that symbology. Even the use for Hinduism is questionable; Saffron is used frequently in Buddhism, too. Vanamonde (Talk)17:37, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
Historically, the color green has been associated with Islam and orange with Hinduism and Buddhism, so to say that having an infobox colored in these respective colors would breach NPOV does not seem valid. However, if the consensus is that infobox colors are not valid for politicians, religion, etc, then every page should remove colors from their infobox and someone should take ownership of this behemoth task. Apollo1203 (talk) 15:14, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
Sorry for not being clear. I was talking in regard to politicians and perhaps other BLP's. Outside of using prose and images, which can be cited, verified and assessed; we shouldn't really be going out of our way to add weight to the cult-of-personality surrounding people by using symbolism. Say we made Modi's infobox symbolically orange... Is that justifiable? How does one measure the weight given by adding that colour?
I'm not against having colours in infoboxes for subjects such as Hinduism and Buddhism. It seems rather innate and if there's a long-standing association then there should be no issue really. Regards, Zindor (talk) 20:45, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
Yesterday I stumbled on the article for Chetan Gawande and cleaned it up a bit. All of the citations are in Marathi, which I don't speak. From what I can work out using Google Translate, the subject is indeed an elected official, but that in itself isn't enough to satisfy WP:NPOL or WP:GNG. I'm also unsure if sources like this one are RS at all—I don't want to discount the page just because it's not professionally formatted or designed, but I can't work out what I'm looking at apart from some kind of report of election results. Could someone who reads Marathi check on the sources and determine whether this person is actually notable? Armadillopteryx20:32, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
Armadillopteryx, ETV is a source alright.. can't really comment much on its reliability though and don't even know if that site is a legitimate one. Even less confidence on newsexpress24.co.in and quite certain tarunbharat.net is not RS. I can read Marathi a bit and his coverage is not much different from other small city mayors so should probably be listed for AfD. Tayi ArajakateTalk02:08, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
Tayi Arajakate, thanks for looking into it! I'll list it at AfD now; at the very least, that will get more eyes on it, and if someone can produce sourcing to show notability, then we can keep and improve the article. Armadillopteryx02:11, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
Could someone have a look at the newly created Persecution of Muhajirs? It was created by a new editor with an impressive command of wikipedia processes, but it's got obvious POV issues, I don't know the topic area enough to be able to attempt cleaning it up myself. – Uanfala (talk)10:53, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
With the original creator blocked for sockpupetry, and the merged text removed because of POV issues, this could do with re-examining. If there's consensus for deletion of the page, it can be zipped with {{db-g5}}. – Uanfala (talk)18:03, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
It shouldn't have been completely removed. The rights of Muhajirs is an important issue in Pakistan, and I was very surprised to see no mention of it on the Muhajir page. There is some mention of the issues in the "Politics" section, it seems. I was wrong again. Oh well. TryKid[dubious – discuss]18:20, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
That's an interesting question. The article is under the scope of WikiProject Pakistan, and WP:INDICSCRIPT might not be applicable. (I personally face this a lot when an article is both under WikiProject India and Bangladesh). My regards, --Titodutta (talk) 18:35, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, articles that are wholly or mostly under other wikiprojects (like those for the neighbouring countries) are out of scope. – Uanfala (talk)18:38, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
That's generally how I've interpreted NOINDICSCRIPT. Unless the subject is predominantly India related, it doesn't apply. I wouldn't use it in that article. Ravensfire (talk) 20:21, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
News Bugz and Chitrasanthe. Anyone know if these are reliable sources for news on entertainment professionals and do they have significant viewership? I've not come across them before, and i can't really find out anything about them, which probably answers my question but i'm throwing a line out anyway. Regards, Zindor (talk) 20:54, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
Zindor From my perspective having ample experience editing Indian entertainment articles, I'd call them both garbage. Chitrasanthe is so professional, their contact info is "contact@yoursite.com" If it looks like a cookie-cutter blog, it probably ain't gonna fly. You can also look at WP:ICTFSOURCES for a rough list of good/bad Indian entertainment sites. Regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 22:34, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
Buranji's are valuable historical chronicles of Assam. But can we use them as sources in Wikipedia? They are definitely WP:PRIMARY and even if they are edited and published today, they still remain WP:PRIMARY. I ask in the context of the Chutia kingdom, which is heavily sourced from Buranjis. Some of the Buranji-based claims made in the article have been refuted by modern scholarship, such as those I have noted here: Talk:Chutia_Kingdom#Extent_in_lead. The Buranji-based claims are pushed by SashankaChutia (tagging him here). Comments on this will be very helpful. Also tagging Sitush who has helped with these issues in the past. Thanks! Chaipau (talk) 12:10, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
@Chaipau: I would like to clarify some things here.
1. Primary sources are not disallowed in Wikipedia. It is not explicitly mentioned that primary sources are not allowed in Wikipedia. I quote," Primary sources are often difficult to use appropriately. Although they can be both reliable and useful in certain situations, they must be used with caution in order to avoid original research. Although specific facts may be taken from primary sources, secondary sources that present the same material are preferred.". In this case, certain facts have been directly taken from Buranjis, due to the absence of secondary sources which doesn't go against Wikipedia policy.
2. You are mistaken in the context of Buranjis here. The paragraph of Maheswar Neog that you are quoting about Buranjis is about "Chutia Buranji" which is surely filled with some fictitious material like the mention of Kuber and many more as pointed out by Shin. The Buranjis I have quoted here are Ahom Buranjis(written in Tai and Assamese) which are a very accurate tool of historical studies. Most of what we know about medieval Assam history comes from these manuscripts. All the Buranjis I have used here are published by the "Department of Historical and Antiquity Studies, Government of Assam". There is nothing to doubt here.
3. Shin has well mentioned about the architectural continuity of the Burai ruins with that of the Sadiya ones. I quote, "If architectural continuity is admitted between the fortifications in the Sadiya region and the Burai river ruin site, it would be possible to believe that the kingdom of these rulers extended as far as the outer limit of Darrang district, in the western most extent
of which Ahom conquerors settled the vanquished Chutiyas in the early part of the sixteenth century." This architectural continuity is in the form of unique common mason marks found in the stone walls of Burai fort, with that of Tamreswari temple as well as many brick tanks of Sadiya region. Neog didn't know about this, and hence he didn't mention it.
4. Moreover, your edit well ignores the south bank. The Buranjis(Ahom) well establish the fact that the Dihing river formed the Chutia-Ahom borders. The area north and west of Dihing was under Chutia jurisdiction. Creating new offices in the province of Dihing and Tiphau backs the facts very well. Are these not informations with "historical basis"? As I have already mentioned land grants are signs of Aryan population, they cannot be used to mark borders of a kingdom. There are other sources like Buranjis(Ahom) and epigraphical records for that.SashankaChutia (talk) 13:42, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
DiplomatTesterMan, I think this is too notable. 1E is for stuff like Prakriti Malla. This brigadier (pass of NSOLDIER right there, btw) played a major role in a major world event. Saved a whole state for a country rather than the other, ensuring a conflict that's lasted to today? Has a postal stamp with his face? Has a village named after him, and high schools (more than one Wikipedia notable entities)? Won second highest honour (ANYBIO), and has since received sustained coverage (GNG) about his deeds and whether he should have been awarded the highest military award his country has to offer? As I said, too notable. Compare this with the articles we keep on internet influencers and domestic footballers. Usedtobecool☎️11:11, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for the comment Usedtobecool. Please do add a few lines to the actual AFD nom. And as for what you wrote that is exactly what I am talking about; everything about him is only related to 4 days in 1947; and not of his life as a whole. There are just too many large gaps about his life. His entire army life (except 4 days) is missing as well as his early life. We might as well called the article Rajinder Singh in October 1947. Thanks. DTM (talk) 11:16, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
The following subjects, and their talk pages, could use more eyes
Hi there, the following subjects, and their talk pages, could use more eyes from experienced Wikipedians, based on a growing interest in these areas by inexperienced editors.
Anyone know if Iswarya Menon and Akshara Menon are the same person? I see different looks in different photos and I don't want to make assumptions. I'm looking at Iswarya Menon and the article currently says that her birth name is Aiswarya Menon, but I can't find any quality sources that say that, and when I look at a 2013 version of the article, I see that it originally said that she was also known as Akshara. There are also references in the article that seem to resolve to the name Akshara, so I assume they are the same person, but that name has disappeared from mention in the article and I wanted some extra opinions. Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 01:10, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
This article has been created recently by a 23 days old account. It appears controversial to me. Please check it for the neutrality. Hitro talk07:34, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
I have just checked its first chapter (i.e. page no. 1–22) and noticed that all of its 22 pages are copy-pasted from chapter no. 7 (i.e. page nos. 75–96) of Jadunath Sarkar's following book: A History of Jaipur, c. 1503-1938 (1984). The only difference is that the chapter titles are different. And there is no attribution to Sarkar anywhere. In fact, the rest of the book may also be copy-pasted from Sarkar's book, although I haven't checked it yet. Note that this book was published in 2008, i.e. before the completion of 60 years of Sarkar's death. So this book is not only blatant plagiarism but also seem like a WP:COPYVIOEL (see here). Is anyone familiar with the publisher Sarup & Sons? Pinging the two editors who keep a record of such plagiarisers: Sitush & Utcursch – both of them are inactive for some time, so I apologise to them in advance. - NitinMlk (talk) 16:52, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Hello admins, your help is required at Suhel Seth and Talk:Suhel Seth. An IP (very possibly a sockpuppet who is well-versed in Wiki jargon) is leaving silly UPE accusations on my talk page and adding mass promotional spam using terrible sources, which I have repeatedly removed. They have now done it thrice in a row, and seem to be a single purpose account and a spammer. Could the the article please be locked for a while? It is only being used to promote the Media Personality, the Actor, the Mover and Shaker, the Maverick, the Author, the Philanthropist, The Suhel Seth, with bad, PR sources. I will be grateful for some more eyes (admin and non-admin) on that page, as their behaviour is bordering on harassment. Also, would you also suggest opening a sockpuppet investigation against them (as there is some evidence on talk page)? Thanks MaysinFourty (talk) 05:47, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
Yes you are an offensive undisclosed paid editor and the warning left by admin Cyphoidbomb on your talk page was clear.[18] You haven't shown which source you think is unreliable other than mislabeling Filmibeat as "trashy" which has been used on thousands of Wikipedia articles,[19] and meets WP:RS. I would like to know why you are edit warring at least 3 editors there. 42.106.5.240 (talk) 05:53, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
This is the extent of their contributions. All they are involved in is accusing me of paid editing, and whitewashing Seth's biography and sweeping under the rug Seth's sexual harassment allegations. MaysinFourty (talk) 05:54, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
Not gonna answer? I see you just want to limit the article with sexual allegations. Can you tell what is your WP:COI here since no one else is supporting your defective overhauling but you are running everywhere and insulting others? 42.106.5.240 (talk) 05:57, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
Your ceaseless insinuations are tiring. Answer what? Here: I'm not a paid editor and have no conflict of interest. Please stop with your false accusations. It's not about limiting, as explained on the talk page; one can add anything with good sources. Sexual harassment is (or was, until you stepped in) the only section with reliable sourcing in that article. Watchers, please compare the versions. MaysinFourty (talk) 06:25, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
Wikipedia has seen this kind of scenario many times when a editor disrupts article of a businessman then asks them for payment before accepting any improvement. You sounds same to me. You never described why Times of India, Rediff, The Navhind Times, Bloomberg, and all others are unreliable sources to you. You are strengthening my accusations with your obtuse attitude. 42.106.5.240 (talk) 06:33, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
This is just to offer my thanks publicly to admin CaptainEek for stepping in and remedying the situation, and Praxidicae for their comment on the talk page! It would be nice to have more editors keeping an eye on the page as I feel Mr Seth's (a "marketing guru") PR machinery is at work! Many thanks, MaysinFourty (talk) 04:19, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
Hello! On 8 April 2020, I started a discussion – Talk:Jat people/Archive 9#Originally or Previosuly – at Talk:Jat people about the wording of a sentence in lead. Even though the point made was worth discussing as there was an approved edit request regarding the point (see — Talk:Jat people/Archive 8#Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 January 2020 & this), there was absolutely no participation from any other editor...none! And, the section got archived without any real discussion because of that. I am pointing about that issue and one more issue with the same sentence again, after a few months, but in an attempt to try to make sure that this time a discussion does takes place, I am inviting the editors here to kindly have a look at the points made at Talk:Jat people#Sentence in lead needs attention and discuss them so that they can be addressed for the benefit of our readers. Thanks, Мастер Шторм (talk) 13:39, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
Gurmukhi translation
Hi. Could someone who can read Gurmukhi check if the English captions match the ones in the file in this edit? I ask because the second one doesn't look anything like a wedding. Thanks! --RegentsPark (comment) 18:09, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
@RegentsPark: Looking at the image I can say for sure that it's taken during the wedding, but I wouldn't call it actual wedding scene. To me, it looks like some elders gathered during the wedding and doing casual chit chat. I think the actual wedding is going in the background where people seem to be gathered to see it. ‐‐1997kB (talk) 16:19, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
The caption says this picture is during a specific ceremony which is a part of the wedding ceremony. In this specific ceremony some money and other objects are exchanged among the families and it is called the Shagan ceremony. --Satdeep Gill (talk • contribs18:07, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
I have tried to expand this article, Haqeeqat (1964 film), 5x so as to allow a dyk hook. But I am falling short by a few lines and references. Any suggestions related to what else can be added and where that information is? DTM (talk) 07:40, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
When you started expanding the article had Prose size (text only): 1667 B (280 words) "readable prose size". Now the article has Prose size (text only): 9855 B (1681 words) "readable prose size". So, prose size has been expanded 5.9118176364727 times. Anyway, I think the plot section can be expanded a little bit. Regards. --Titodutta (talk) 18:26, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Thoothukudi massacre#Need to rewrite the introduction. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 00:54, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
Done Thank you for the contribution. Field Marshal Aryan (talk) 12:14, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
User:Titodutta/scripts/SearchHelper.js, that adds several quick search option beside an article title. I thought it would be helpful, unfortunately no one is using this as of now. Please use the IndianNewspaperSearch Google Custom search there if you use it, that's often a saver for me.
Any ideas, anyone? His BLP says otherwise, I edited it so per https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/lokpal-member-ajay-kumar-tripathi-dies-due-to-coronavirus/articleshow/75510973.cms
'Field Marshal Aryan'? 
Administrator note WikiProject India members: it is worth noting that an article on this subject did exist, but was deleted by Yamla, after the user who created it was found to be engaging in undisclosed paid editing. So a cynical administrator might wonder if maybe now the subject is looking to self-promote for free? Cyphoidbomb (talk) 22:09, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
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