User talk:Galendalia

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June 2020

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

You have been blocked indefinitely from editing for General WP:CIR and personal attacks.

If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}. TonyBallioni (talk) 19:12, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Very sorry to see this, although I can't help but agree with the rationale - Galendalia, I'm sorry to see you blocked like this, I hope you can take a bit of a break, maybe look at WP:SO, and if you feel ready to contribute positively, request an unblock. Whatever happens, all my best goes to you and yours - wherever you are, stay safe and well. Cheers, -- puddleglum^2.0 19:45, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Comment

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Galendalia (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

You have blocked me for something in which not one single editor involved in any discussion has met any of these requirements as stated in WP:CIR in which you are claiming to have blocked me for.

Violated by numerous editors and even admins:

"come down hard like a ton of bricks on someone as soon as they make a mistake."
It does not mean we should ignore people and not try to help improve their competence. In fact for most, it was quite the opposite
It does not mean that Wikipedia's civility policy does not apply when talking to people about required competence. Rude and uncivil comments are discouraging, and can raise psychological barriers against recognizing one's mistakes or improving one's skills.

Responding to suspected lack of competence - How many times was I called incompetent and told to find something else to do? Count all of them please then you will realize why I have been such an ass to certain people.

One must take care when responding to the perceived lack of competence in others. Be mindful of what incompetence is and is not. Incompetence is not lack of knowledge. Responding to competence issues requires care and understanding of the background of a situation. - Again see above statement
Repeated mistakes: If a user is making repeated mistakes, verify whether the user has been given any advice or instruction in how to do things correctly. Most users want to contribute productively but simply may not know how to do so. If it appears no-one has explained a problem with their edits, doing so should always be the first step. There are two ways to explain mistakes, (a) direct explanation and (b) showing the better way. In either case, use their talk page to introduce yourself, provide diffs while explaining the problems, and direct them to further readings or to forums such as Wikipedia:Teahouse or Wikipedia:Help desk. In the vast majority of cases, this will be sufficient and no further action will be needed. - Not once did this happen by the administrators or editors in these ANI's did this happen. Instead, it was about me and my "incompetence" in other areas of WP.
Alleging incompetence: It is generally inadvisable to call a person "incompetent" or their editing "incompetent". While being direct with problems is advisable, it is possible to be direct without being insulting. Telling people their work displays incompetence does nothing to improve their work; it only serves to put them on the defensive, making them less receptive to instruction. - Look at the comments especially from Prax and Pony. Enough said. Notice that this causes people to be on the defensive so yes a lot of times I have been on the defensive based on comments from these editors and admins.

Before bringing an issue to the incidents noticeboard or another similar venue, you should have exhausted all reasonable attempts to communicate with the user and correct their behavior. Use their talk page, explain things to them, and demonstrate how to do things correctly. - This was very rarely done and it was only done by the few who have interacted with me on a reasonable level and not attack me. By implementing this "Essay" as a reason for my block is not a policy however an attack to sequester me from constructively editing pages as I have been doing.

I am requesting (since I am blocked) that this go to arbitration since I cannot open the request myself and that no one involved in the discussion, nor the blocking admin review this request.

This is a blatant misuse of Administrative powers in order to silence me from a dispute.

Decline reason:

I am declining your unblock request because it does not address the reason for your block, or because it is inadequate for other reasons. To be unblocked, you must convince the reviewing administrator(s) that

the block is not necessary to prevent damage or disruption to Wikipedia, or
the block is no longer necessary because you
1. understand what you have been blocked for,
2. will not continue to cause damage or disruption, and
3. will make useful contributions instead.

Please read the guide to appealing blocks for more information. Primefac (talk) 19:44, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 19:39, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Block Comment

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Primefac one of the reasons I was blocked is because I edited a users page by correcting the COI. Well guess what, the policy on WP:COI states I can do this by stating Note that someone else may add this for you. The policy should be changed if you guys are going to block someone for this. I have every right to defend myself if someone else is accusing me of wrong doing when it is right in your own policies. Same with the speedy deletion in which I exactly quoted and was still told I misread it when it exactly states whether you or others put it there which has been my argument about all of this. But again, I was told I was incompetent on this and basically being told I can’t read English and I misinterpreted it. What is there in that statement to misinterpret? That was never explained because the admins can’t explain it, instead they want to elaborate on me being an ass and telling them to “fuck off” and “go to hell” and “I didn’t want their POV” as I wanted the POV from the admin who started this and he/she still never explained how I misinterpreted this statement. Instead admins piled up on me and are claiming I caused them to do more work. None of those two things needed to be undone as by policy I have every right as an editor to follow policy and a) report what I see (not investigate) and b) fix the COI code on someone’s page as they didn’t put it in properly and by policy I am allowed to do so. This went from my content editing being disruptive because they could not prove why they even took me to ANI based on these statements which I have maintained throughout the process to making it about what I said to others. No one seems to care about how I was talked to or how admins handled this with me but god forbid I stand up to admins and prove my point and since they had no proof that what I did on these 2 edits broke policy it turned into an admin pile on against me. My next step is going to be arbitration for the abuse of administrative powers to silence me and the way I’ve been treated since day one from certain individuals and since you’ve blocked me I’ll need to email this in. I will not apologize for my remarks until the admins and other editors involved in these discussions and accusations apologize to me for their behavior towards me. Add to that the templated response for denying my appeal to the block which doesn’t even address one single thing I brought up but instead puts all the blame on me. Yeah good try. Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 00:16, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Nick: also adding you since you closed the topic as Tony blocked me against your own policies in which he stated the diffs in the initial complaint were enough to warrant the block. Actually both of the items I performed are in the policies as something that I as an editor am allowed to do. See links above. Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 00:23, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don’t think telling Ponyo “fuck you too” is in line with our policies. TonyBallioni (talk) 00:34, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@TonyBallioni: Neither is an admin telling me I’m so incompetent that I can’t read a simple statement that says whether you or others put it there and that I misinterpreted it. It started with me doing nothing wrong. I’ve never had any conversations with Ponyo but they seem to have a lot to say about me for never once having any interaction with me except on the ANI board. When the admins and I guess I can call them senior editors throw out the WP:Bait and I take it, I’m the fool for doing so. Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 00:42, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So when an involved admin advises you it's harassment, but when an uninvolved one does they're still wrong because you have never had any conversations with them? I hope you see the slight logical issue there. M Imtiaz (talk · contribs) 00:44, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Galendalia, some unsolicited advice: go take a break. Seriously: click log out, turn off your computer, and do something else. Take your mind off Wikipedia for a while. You aren't on a path toward being unblocked at the moment, and continuing will not help anything. You were blocked not just because of the edits you made, but how you interacted with other people while making those edits. You have rushed into several situations, made mistakes, and then attacked or dismissed those who have disagreed with your actions. For an unblock request to be successful, you must account for your problematic behavior, not repeat it. When you are ready, you can come back. --AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 00:47, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Galendalia: this is good advice that AntiCompositeNumber is giving you. I wanted to add that you are misunderstanding several things. First, only about 20% of the people who pointed out that there were problems are admins. Most of the people posting at ANI are not admins, although several are (Ponyo, TonyBallioni, and Primefac above, for example). You frequently referred too me as an admin, but I am not one. (You can enable "Navigation popups" to quickly see what rights a user has). Second, perhaps if you politely ask one of the above admins for the precise reason you were blocked, it will help you to understand your situation. You can then think about it, and if you come back, correct your actions. From just about everything you have posted above and on ANI, I get the feeling you do not understand why you were blocked or ran into problems. It is not really about your content edits as far as I can see, but rather about how you responded. But I am not an admin and I did not block you. So ask one of the admins (politely). ThatMontrealIP (talk) 00:57, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@M Imtiaz: I’m not sure where you get harassment from as that has nothing to do with this conversation or the reasons I’ve been blocked.

@AntiCompositeNumber: I hear you. It’s not about just me though. It’s also about the admins and senior editors also needing to be held accountable for their actions. If I get attacked I’m attacking back. That’s me. I pointed out that I did follow policy in the two things listed in this ANI but not one person even looked into it and said “oh he is right, the policy does say that. It was AGF. Instead it was a pile up on me saying I’m incompetent amongst other things. Just like with the project. I didn’t create nor post the OMBoxes someone else did but yet I got blamed for creating them. I only created one which I accepted responsibility for and understood what they were saying and let it go. Yet the conversation ended up involving other editors who once again blamed me for doing it when an experienced editor created them and put it up of which I didn’t even ask for but instead of admins faithfully executing the who and the why, it was a pile up on me again. Just like everything else. Like I stated some users I’ve never had interactions with but when I’m in ANI they write 4 paragraphs on me but not once followed their own advice of pointing me in the right direction. It’s a common issue in this world with people in management. They want the title and pay but want everyone else to do the work. Granted to my knowledge no one gets paid in the admin group but I do not know that. I asked for the block to be reviewed with all evidence and that wasn’t even done. It was a quick glance and templated response. How is that fair to editors? I have backed off of everything and I mentioned numerous times and I mean numerous times in the first ANI about being the project coordinator for spoken. Not one single person said a word about it. The moment the ANI was closed I was getting pummeled (again) for going somewhere I had no business being and even one person made the comment to the effect of you haven’t even recorded one thing so how can you lead the project. It doesn’t matter if I have recorded anything or not. I do not like my voice. I never have. I don’t even like talking on the phone. Doesn’t mean I cannot effectively run a project especially considering I’m an IT Project Management Certified professional. I could have easily called that person out but I didn’t. I let it go. Matter of fact I don’t even think it was a full 48 hours after the first ANI that I was addressed by an admin for the project in which they never stated prior any objection and then they proceeded to state that I’m breaking my own promise of staying away from things. Boom! There it was. Yet another attack on me. I think I’ve said enough to get my point across. I’m going to start working on the email and the list of names for submission. Thank you though Anti for always being helpful and helping me out when I’ve asked you questions. That was appreciated. @ThatMontrealIP: my apologies for saying you were an admin as you do come off as one. However the rest still stands as I was correct in what I did and I pointed that out to you on my talk page but instead of apologizing to me you accused me of misinterpreting a statement which very, very clearly states I can do that as an editor and instead of saying anything else you kept defending your statement instead of seeing what I wrote then took me to ANI with the subject of “Galendalia, Again” that is what pushed me over the edge. Plus the fact you didn’t notify me made it even worse. Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 01:15, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure where you get harassment from - Special:Diff/961198209, enough said? M Imtiaz (talk · contribs) 01:18, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Galendalia, You clearly don't understand your situation. Just ask one of the admins (politely) why you were blocked. You can't get unblocked without some understanding, which you do not currently have. That said, thank you for your contributions and I wish you well. I am going to unwatch this page.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 01:19, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

PS do not bother with arbcom as you do not qualify as a type of block that they would review. Your block is justified and reasonable.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 01:21, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I received a short block (a justifiable one) when I first began editing and had my unblock request accepted within a few hours, so I’ll give you some first hand advice. If you want an unblock request to be accepted, you firstly need to understand the reason of your block, so taking ThatMontrealIP's advice would be wise; politely ask an admin for the exact reasons for your block. Acknowledge and understand the reasons, take full responsibility for your actions and make it clear that you will not engage in whatever actions lead to the block. Explain what steps you’ll take to avoid those same actions and how you’ll handle any similar incidents in the future. Anything else other than that will likely be met with a standard template or something along the lines of "I’m not satisfied with your request, declined." As ThatMontrealIP said, arbcom probably won’t entertain your case, so it would be a waste of time. Just to clarify, I’m not pointing fingers and saying you’re in the wrong, but trying to get your point across in the manner you currently are will not lead to a positive outcome. I hope this helps. – ².O.^Boxing 01:56, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Explanation of block please Comment

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hi @TonyBallioni: I am willing to work through what got me blocked. While I understand the personal attacks portion, I am requesting that you please explain to me how I am blocked under WP:CIR, please? Thanks, Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 17:27, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, gladly. So you were given what amounts to a final warning by Nick here. I don't feel like I need to repeat the events that led to that or occurred before that. Since then you did the following:

When some of these were brought up to you, you reacted with anger, derision, and personal attacks. Your response to being blocked is to blame me, and admin who can't remember ever interacting with you before blocking you, of misuing my tools in blocking for what is a pretty straightforward situation and attempt to start an ArbCom case over an ordinary block. While I suppose I am involved since I would be a party to said case, I can say fairly certainly that virtually any other administrator who reviews those threats will treat them as evidence that you aren't here to work on a collaborative project.

Ultimately, that is what this comes down to: you have received warnings and either not abided by them, moved on to other areas and started causing issues, or attacked the people who issued them. Once you were blocked, you attacked people who have no animosity towards you but were simply acting in an uninvolved manner. Someone with competency issues and anger issues is pretty much the definition of someone who is not capable of working on a collaborative project. If it were just one, then maybe we could have this as a topic ban or one week block. The problem is that it is both. When you have both problems it becomes a "not compatible for work on a collaborative project" block, and those are indefinite until you can convince the community you have changed as a person. TonyBallioni (talk) 23:41, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@TonyBallioni: Thank you for pointing those out, please see my responses below:

Item 1 & 2 - When it came up on my screen I did not investigate as to when it was created and I regularly report any user page that has email or websites on it. I apologize for using the G11 template and to ThatMontrealIP for the way in which I treated them.

Items 3 & 4 - One did not have the complete code and the other did not have it at all. Both editors stated they had a COI and per the policy on WP:COI states I can do this by stating Note that someone else may add this for you. which is what I did which does not violate any policy. So this should be a moot point.

Item 5 - I was unaware I even did this as I was putting the welcome script on but I just added the auto archive script (.js) I found (same with the auto reply by enterprisy(sp?). I must have type in yes to add auto archive which I accept fault for.

I am going to ask you to strike out your comment above about me having a competency issue as that is a personal attack against me and I am far from it. I stated numerous times about me being involved in the project, my plans for the project were publicly posted and not one person ever said anything about it. Two days after the ANI was closed someone came down on me “like a ton of bricks” about WP:OWN. I also explained that I didn’t put the OMBOXES on all the pages to the project but I did put one on the Articles Recorded page. I was very nice to the user and even asked if there was a better way to word it. I did not complain about the take down or anything. However, that editor never responded until the very end with a brief statement and never even answered my question. That entire conversation with ToBeFree was very cordial and I even researched the edit filter and requested it as they suggested. This conversation is in my archives.

There was an issue with Ponyo, who inserted their POV into the conversation of a) everything had been addressed with TBF and b) accusing me of not following what I said I would do. So yes I got terse once again with them.

Ponyo - “You ran into significant issues with your involvement is GOCE and have now moved on to another project where you are showing major WP:OWN issues. This is concerning. I understand that Nick closed the AN/I thread as it had petered out, but just two days later you are asserting yourself in a role that you don't have the editing competence to fulfill. There is a very large gap between your desire to help and your ability to do so constructively”

My response “Sure if you say so. I haven’t been involved with GOCE since then. I accepted the feedback given above. I don’t have any showing of WP:OWN. I’m seeking feedback on ways to get people to join the project. Unfortunately that appears to be frowned upon too. WTF gives with you people? I don’t even know who the f*** you are but now you are on the prowl against me and the admin who had the issue hasn’t engaged in discussion yet with me but you make it a point to bring up shit that has been dealt and done with. Keep your POV to yourself I don’t want to read it. I’ve been doing everything on this project constructively and have seeked input and gotten it from across the board from numerous people and it went from no one participating to 5 people currently recording and one person has done a couple already including for today’s FA. So yeah. I’m not being constructive at all. I know I don’t own the project it is community based and participation is voluntary. Btw I have had this role since day one after seeking out questions and it was brought up numerous times during the ANI but since you appear to be seeking out ways to further damage me, maybe you missed the 4 or so times it was mentioned”

Yes my wording was not the best to say the least, however, my point is in there and this has been a consistent issue. I have done a lot of good things on Wikipedia with CV, and since the first ANI, I started working on redesigning the project of which one particular person had an issue with me doing and by them mentioning GOCE tells me they have followed me since my first week which is ok. But not once have they given any valuable feedback. All of their posts to me (or about me) were to come down on me and point out all the “wrong” I was doing and not once have they ever given any advice to help better me which is why I am not nice to them. This is not what should be expected of an admin. After the issue with Spoken Audio I just let it be, learned AutoWikiBrowser and WPCleaner and just started in on those articles. I also looked at edit requests and started those and if I could not make a solid decision that I felt confident about I left it for someone else to do. There were also some article talk pages (hence me finding the auto archive script) that had 60-200 posts on them so I set those to auto archive to help clean them up as part of WP:Bold.

Lastly, to address the recent ANI. I was working with TMIP and trying to resolve this when another user (not an admin) basically paraphrased the exact same thing TMIP states but then ended it with a) bringing up the old ANI and b) stating “you are on very thin ice”. While I could see that as a threat I didn’t, however, had they had something different to say it would have been accepted. If you look at the conversation you can see the resemblance. So to me this was serving as WP:Bait and I took it. That is why I was brought to ANI. There is a right way to be helpful and there is a wrong way and then there is a down right not here to help. Everything as of late seems to fall into the last 2 with a few exceptions.

These statements are in no way to really be used as excuses but to show why I did something with my rationale as to why I did them. I hope that you understand this. I have not opened any other cases. I apologize for saying you are misusing your tools but I feel like admins should look at all aspects and take them all into account and not just focus on the bad things or what the experienced editors or other admins say. Yes I’m on the newer side but I am still a human and deserve to be treated like one. Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 03:49, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't read any of this, as it is far too long to respond to. I've already explained my block reasoning and explained my reasoning under WP:ADMINACCT. If you wish to appeal again you may by following the instructions at WP:GAB. I would suggest an appeal 80-90% smaller or otherwise its likely to be declined without anyone reading it. If you don't follow that advice, your talk page access is likely to be revoked. TonyBallioni (talk) 03:53, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@TonyBallioni: Thank you for proving my point that admins just don’t care about what a “newbie” has to say and blowing them off. This was not an unblock request but figuring out how I “supposedly” violated something that you blocked me for but since you can’t even answer that. Take care as I’ve said enough and my point about admins has been proven. Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 04:50, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(talk page watcher) Galendalia, you are still failing to understand why you have been blocked. TonyBallioni has pointed out the reasons you have been blocked, and you literally respond in the same narcissistic tone that had you blocked in the first place. I personally (though this is just my opinion) don't agree with Praxidicae's statement claiming you are not here to build an encyclopaedia, as you have made some positive contributions, but the only reason that any order can be maintained on an encyclopaedia that anyone can edit, is that you must accept mistakes! I can understand you feel like you've been ganged upon, it's a horrible feeling, I've been in the same situation before, but the way you deal with these situations is to deal with it and move on. If you want to get unblocked, maybe instead of denying all the claims against you, accept them, and move on. — Yours, Berrely • ^Talk∕_Contribs 07:49, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Berrely: Thanks. He (not the user who said it in the ANI) has/have not answered why I’ve been blocked under WP:CIR and why he is calling me incompetent and he refuses to answer or provide an example. I admitted my mistakes in the above bit and I refuse to apologize to those who have come at me without ever once trying to help me out and instead just piled on me as all is mentioned above. WP:CIR is a serious accusation and without him providing proof is a serious breach of being an admin and the fact of the other things I am being accused of, I have shown my reasoning (very sufficiently and pointed to the policy) as to why I did it, however I still got blocked. I apologized for the ones that needed an apology. He even stated he’s not going to read it just like no one read my statements in the ANI and I got blocked. Sucks but oh well. Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 08:00, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Galendalia, If you read here in the essay, you'll see it says

the ability to communicate with other editors and abide by consensus.

the ability to understand their own abilities and competencies, and avoid editing in areas where their lack of skill and/or knowledge causes them to create significant errors for others to clean up.

I understand you may not agree with some of the things said, but please read the policies that are linked as this is clearly what TonyBallioni is referring to. I have often disagreed with other editors, but I considered the circumstances and I thought it wasn't worth the fight. In this case Tony has outlined policies that he thinks you are breaking, and it is fine for you to disagree with him, no one is saying you can't have your own opinion, but in this case TonyBallioni is clearly right on the WP:CIR. — Yours, Berrely • ^Talk∕_Contribs 08:07, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

On the first one yes no debate there; 2nd point nope because I didn’t cause any significant damage that caused people to have to clean up after me. This was the wrong template being added. Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 08:10, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Galendalia, the second line is a fine example of what has happened; you have been overambitious. While it is encouraged to WP:BEBOLD it also says here to not go over the top. You've been here for 3 months, I've been here for 2 years and yet you've managed to get more edits than me. You trying to revive a Wikiproject after only 1 month on Wikipedia, not even having contributed a spoken recording to it. You prioritise quantity over quality, making many edits and often making mistakes. When users ask you in good faith, as they believe you are a more experienced editor, you use a harsh tone and start biting them instead of explaining what has happened. I probably couldn't take on the take on the task of reviving and "coordinating" a Wikiproject with over 3000 recordings, and likely neither could you. You are being too bold. You may not have caused significant errors yet, but you are on the path to doing so. I'm very sorry for being this harsh, I honestly hated writing this, but please listen to what other users have to say, and not just deny everything. — Yours, Berrely • ^Talk∕_Contribs 08:22, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I’m concerned the block can stay. I’ve been medically cleared to go back to work so I’m just waiting to see where they put me and it looks like it will be downtown so I won’t have time to be on here anymore anyways. Cheers Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 08:23, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Galendalia, I hope you come back, I honestly do. As was said earlier. Take a break, lean back from Wikipedia. And, if you do come back, make small edits, not huge ones. I wish you the best.— Yours, Berrely • ^Talk∕_Contribs 08:25, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Unblock Request

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Galendalia (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

I fully understand my actions about being uncivil towards others and the attacks I have made towards people. My goal is to a) not to respond to editors the way I have been and b) not to let other editors get under my skin. My track record shows outside of conversations, that I am here to build an encyclopedia and have made very many constructive edits in two months time and had rollback rights (removed after previous ANI). I am also willing to participate in discussions by being level headed and not reacting to the comments posted but to work towards a solution. My ANIs have been about the way I converse with others of which is a major fault of mine and I accept the responsibility and apologize for those words. Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 10:15, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Decline reason:

~~Please bear with me. I am composing this carefully. It may be a few minutes. --Deep fried okra (schalte ein) 01:42, 11 June 2020 (UTC)~~[reply]
I'm sorry, but I cannot unblock you at this time. I am in full agreement with with Tony's assessment below. In one of the ANI's, there was a recommendation that you not attempt to return for a year or two. Generally, one can try after six months of constructive editing on other projects. I do not recommend attempting to return before December 10, 2020.

Review and critique: I cannot for the life of me believe that three days after writing THIS, you are now able to accept criticism and feedback.
Seriously? ... but none of you admins ever see that. You are all seeking to silence me ...? Again, I can not see you changing your temperament so quickly.
Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive408#User:LuK3 reported by User:Galendalia (Result: no violation) You reported LuK3, a recent changes patroller for reverting vandalism? We all make mistakes, I don't see where this one was addressed. But the biggest problem has been in your responses.
At the very least, once you have been unblocked, you will need to agree to stay away from other user's user pages. And why in the world would you do this?
I won't go in-depth into the general competence issues brought up in this thread. Opening a SPI that was deleted? Opening multiple RfC's when people disagree with you? I think you will need to agree to stay away from WP:DRN once you are unblocked. Gah. You promised to stay in your own lane on May 27th. You need to seriously contemplate how you have proceeded here-to-fore.
You will need to continue to not host at the TeaHouse.
I have not assessed your WP:CVU work. That is an area where it is very easy to make mistakes, It is vital that one respond with quiet dignity, humility, and grace when the inevitable error is brought to one's attention. We all make mistakes.

Summary. Though well intentioned, you are overly intense and aggressive, and unable to accept constructive criticism. You are potentially a good user, but you need to grow, and that will take time. It is recommended that, before requesting unblocking, you edit constructively on other projects for at least six months. At least a year would be better. --Deep fried okra (schalte ein) 03:10, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

I guess it’s worth mentioning that I wrote WP:NOTCOMPATIBLE a few nights ago after dealing with all of the above to discuss our approach to these situations. If I had written it sooner that would have been the block rationale, but I still think it’s a fit. What we have in this situation is someone who fundamentally doesn’t get how Wikipedia operates. Their interactions with others as well as general competence issues (which they have not addressed satisfactorily either here or above, despite their claims) make them have a personality that just isn’t suited for a collaborative project. Feedback is met with angry attacks, and when they try to address the substance of the issue, they don’t actually address the concerns at all or show a fundamental misunderstanding of policy (especially on the COI issue.)
The issue here is that we have an editor who is here in good faith to build the encyclopedia, but who for several reasons just isn’t a fit for what we expect from Wikipedians in terms of behaviour. Good faith isn’t enough to override these concerns: we need evidence that you’ve somehow changed your approach to how you’d interact with others fundamentally in the last few days. Everything you’ve done since that block has indicated you haven’t. In the light of everything else you’ve written, this unblock request looks like lipservice: saying the right things without sincerity. Actions speak louder than the words of an appeal, and I see no reason right now to think you’ve changed the way you’ll act on this project since I’ve blocked you. TonyBallioni (talk) 00:25, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
ANI's? --Deep fried okra (schalte ein) 01:33, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Permalinks to ANI's. Special:permalink/961655728#Galendalia, again and Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1038#Editor removing blocked users' userboxen to tidy a project list. --Deep fried okra (schalte ein) 02:32, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Deepfriedokra: Thank you for the feedback. I guess it would be safe to say you have not previously seen my comments in another thread on my talk page, so I will address your concerns here:

*I have not touched DRN since then except to remove my name as a volunteer and the same with the Teahouse.

*For the archiving as I explained I was not paying attention and typed yes to add it with the Welcome template. This was not even addressed until Tony listed it above. I have apologized for it and stated I need to pay attention to it. This was a new script I found on Wikipedia and I put “yes” into the “create auto archive” box.

*The G11 - As I stated when pages are pulled up I automatically send CSD especially if there is email and such involved. There was something I read that stated along the lines not calling attention to it but let the admins know so yes I sent a CSD based on that criteria to get an admins attention in the fastest but most discrete way possible. What I was upset with was another user paraphrasing everything that was just told to me and then ending it with “you are on very thin ice.” To my knowledge that person is not an admin which can be construed as a threat.

*COI issues - As I have stated the user had 1/2 of the template up so I finished it for them so it looked right because the template doesn’t say what the conflict is unless you add the pages which is what I’m allowed to do (again as stated). The previous ANI was about me removing user boxes of which I have not done since. The other COI didn’t have the box but just a statement which didn’t link to the articles themselves as they are a paid editor. Again, the policies state any user is allowed to do this. The problem I see here is that we have two different policies for the same thing.

*CVU work. I think out of the couple hundred (maybe a thousand or so) two have been reversed.

*I also understand why you are bringing up the previous ANI, everything was explained and I have not broken any of my promises from that ANI.

As I’ve already stated it is my interactions with people that I deserved this block and I have, explained above with this unblock request, what I will be doing to address this on my end. You stated I need to work on editing another project. I know of none others than the infamous Wikipedia. No one has addressed my concerns in all of this (as in Galendalia I see your point....”, however, they are quick to pass judgement on me. Yes some people have expressed clarification and proper guidance but others have never had an interaction with me about anything and they continue to add to the pile of stuff against me in ANI which is not aligned with the goals of the project. Right now while I wait I’ve had plenty of time to think which is how I came up with my resolve about approaching others in conversation.

Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 04:49, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No I saw it. Please stop. You really need to stop debating with people. The essence of the unblock decline is in bold. Feel free to request another unblock if you think I erred in declining. --Deep fried okra (schalte ein) 09:47, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Deepfriedokra: - While I appreciate your response and decline, 1/2 of the block is because of me doing things against policy, being called incompetent, and many other things. I’m actually reading through all sorts of essays and policies now about blocking and reasons and trying to figure out why I was slapped with an indef for my first block when I see other users getting a lot less for the same things. I am not debating, I am pointing out the facts that once again are being dismissed. I have accepted the part of my words and attacks and have agreed to stop them. Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate}

See WP:NOTCOMPATIBLE, which describes this situation. Like I said, if I had written it before I blocked you, that’d be the block reason. On the competence points: you still have the G11 and COI points wrong, and policy does not say what you think it says there. You are simply not allowed to edit another user page except in exceptional circumstances. COI not being one. No one is ever forced to use that template as a declaration either. As to the G11, nothing in the relevant policy or the policy its based on remotely suggest using CSD as a way of requesting suppression, and suppression would have been declined anyway in this case as the individual appears to know enough about Wikipedia to be able to make the conscious choice of making their email public. That you don’t have the judgement to understand that is also a competence issue. You’re very likely to have your talk page access revoked soon if you keep posting essays and pinging people, which also goes to my point about overall compatibility. This block is not about good faith or learning, it’s about the issues you have with this project and the disruption that appears sure to resume if you were unblocked because of the compatibility issues. TonyBallioni (talk) 10:41, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@TonyBallioni: - I already apologized for the mistake on the CSD. As far as the COI WP:COI states a couple of times in various subsections in part “Note that other editors may add this template for you.” It is stated right there on the page. How can you block someone based on an essay and not a policy? This essay is your POV and I think to use that essay (or any essay) and suppressing me on my talk page is egregious to say the least. You are also continuing down the path of insulting me and making personal attacks by repeatedly stating I’m “incompetent.” I have asked you before to stop with that comment and you have failed to cease calling me incompetent. The above are not essays. They are answers to the questions/statements that were made by the declining administrator. I have also asked questions which have not been answered and I understand there are a lot of things going on in Wikipedia Land so I wait on a response. I also find it “weirdly funny” that when I post something as above for my unblock request or immediately above on my response, you chime right in before any other admin can do anything and you keep saying my talk page will be restricted from me editing it. I’m seeing this as harassment from you, an administrator none the less. Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 11:14, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It’s fairly normal for the blocking admin to weigh in on such things. TonyBallioni (talk) 11:56, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Unblock Request

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Galendalia (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

I feel, based on the conversations, this was more punitive than preventative. I am aware of what I did and how it hurt others and I have made the statement previously that I will be and remain calm and not attack others during disputes. It is also unfair to me that I got an indefinite when other users got time based which is why I feel this punitive. I stand by my resolution of not attacking others. Also upon further reading of policies and essays the blocking administrator should not be taking part of the unblock request unless consulted by the unblocking reviewer so I kindly ask that Tony not post anything in response to this request. Thank you. Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 23:09, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Decline reason:

I'm sorry, I truly feel really bad for you, but this unblock request and another rambling paragraph continue to demonstrate a lack of understanding. I've been keeping my eyes on this situation for a while now, and I've read all the ani's and the archives. I can tell you have a lot of energy and want to contribute and do good. But you are not mature enough yet. Don't take this as insult, or a setback, but rather a passive event. Because I understand, I was like you at a time, where I typed out a long, dumb paragraph about how I was fed up with this site, and quit. Then I came back several months later, having grown up, changed my way of thinking and matured. I think you should do the same. Take a break from this site, stop thinking about it for a while, and continue on with your life, grow, and come back in 6+ months, and find an area you like+ silently work on it. This website is clearly causing you more stress than you should have, so it's best to just leave it behind for now. To end this cycle, I'm going to revoke talk page access so you can more easily disengage yourself and do something else. I think you will be able to make a return on this account, just not now. And please don't become a jaded, edgy sockmaster- they're just sad and annoying. Good luck, Moneytrees🌴^{Talk🌲Help out at CCI!} 01:28, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

I was going to make a statement during the previous unblock request recommending to take a wikibreak until sometime in August and I still believe that a change a behaviour within a few days of a block will cause suspicion. I would say that an idea of how you'd contribute could possibly help this request's possibility of succeeding, though I will admit that I haven't watched any other series of unblock requests yet. Username⁶⁸⁹² 23:46, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Username6892: thank you for the advice, much appreciated! Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 00:26, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This really is not moving in the right direction for an unblock request. What I'm seeing here is lip service being paid to the concerns expressed, unfortunately even that lip service is betrayed by your belief that your understanding and interpretation of the rules is always correct, or somehow superior to experienced editors and administrators of many years experience. There's always, from my experience, an excuse or a 'but...' somewhere in everything we've discussed with you. The unblock policy (which some of us around here have helped write, so we know very well indeed) says the following...

When you appeal, other editors – most of whom probably have no involvement in the matter – will review your editing history, which has been logged, as well as the reason for the block and the history leading up to it. Editors may leave comments on your talk page regarding your appeal.

Usually, if it's a clear cut case, any uninvolved (independent) administrator will make a decision. The blocking administrator may be consulted for their comments on your request (this is a common courtesy). The process can take hours or a few days; for major discussions sometimes it can take a week or more.

Administrators will carefully avoid blocking and unblocking fights, which are a serious breach of administrator policy. For this reason, blocks will not usually be allowed to become a source of conflict; rather, consensus will be sought, by means of a fair and objective examination of the matter and of any policies alleged to have been breached.

This means your unblock request goes into the unblock category, and administrators will review that category to see who is requesting an unblock, we do this to monitor what is happening with our own blocks as well as to provide the 'uninvolved' service needed for unblock requests to function. This works best when the blocking administrator is fully discharging the requirements of administrator accountability by explaining their rationale for blocking in detail. Where it says 'the blocking administrator may be consulted' that's something we expect to happen. We block users for a variety of reasons and in some cases it can be necessary to direct administrators to deleted contributions, filter log entries or behaviour on other projects, but where it says 'may be consulted' it doesn't mean the blocking administrator can only add information if the reviewing administrator asks for it. The blocking administrator technically 'owns' the block and has to justify it, which they can do at any time.

You'll also now notice that the final part of this section of the unblocking policy says 'blocks will not usually be allowed to become a source of conflict' this again requires the blocking administrator to justify their actions and discharge their duty under administrator accountability. It is necessary for the reviewing administrator to understand what may and may not lead to a source of conflict and to ascertain how consensus may be achieved, what that consensus is likely to be, and any other relevant information about ensuring we do not end up with a wheel warring situation.

You will need, in order to build a consensus for your own unblock, prove not just to the reviewing administrator, but to Tony, Primefac and Deep Fried Okra, as the blocking administrator and two reviewing administrators, why you can be safely unblocked and build a consensus amongst at least those three administrators that you can be unblocked, additionally there are others who are not party to the block/unblock discussion, such as myself, who will need to be persuaded as part of the consensus building process.

I'm not going to say precisely what you'll need to do in order to become unblocked, but I would expect you'll need to be considerably more persuasive and in more detail, beyond 'I did wrong and now I won't'. I do think, unfortunately, you're not suited to editing. I don't know if you think you're more intelligent than us, whether you think we're children or if you have some other superiority complex, but what I'm frequently seeing is an attitude of 'I've read this, interpreted it my way, you're all wrong' followed by 'you've told me I'm wrong BUT I'm only wrong because you've not explained it so I'm not really wrong' which becomes very tiring. It's just an attitude thing, telling Tony his comments are unwanted is indicative of the issue, most people when they're blocked by such a long standing administrator and functionary like Tony is to beg them for advice and help, not tell them they're unwanted (by means of a poor understanding of a policy).

Anyway, that's my perspective on things. I was going to send some of this to you in response to your e-mail, more of this I've added specifically here.
-- Nick (talk) 23:50, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Nick: Thank you for the enlightening message. It’s not an how I interpreted it in all cases, it’s the fact that Wikipedia has conflicting policies and the admins get to pick and choose which ones they want to enforce. I’ve pointed that out numerous times and have been repeatedly told I’m wrong whilst it’s hard to be wrong when it is stated in black and white on the page. In fact, if anything, it makes us both correct. I also have not seen anything that says a user can be blocked/banned on an essay especially with the disclaimer at the top that says this is not a policy and does not reflect the consensus of the community. This is why I stated I did not want Tony’s comments because he is blocking me on an essay and then the second time freely admits if he had written it prior to this issue then that would be the reason. The unblocking supplement is also confusing and can be a point of contention as in one paragraph it states it will be reviewed by an administrator other than the one who blocked you, followed by they will review my reasons against current policies and what I have stated I will do, then followed by if they need more information they will contact the blocking admin for more information then followed by a mini discussion may happen in which the blocking admin can make comments. I feel this can be more developed into one paragraph that has more cohesion to it. I apologize that you feel I’m also not here to edit. I’ve done a lot of editing and other good things. The problem I have is with conduct in which I personally attack people. If I remain blocked I can’t prove that I’ll carry that promise with me. I am not superior or anything like that, however, I do have the right to explain how I see things as a point of discussion as everyone in the world sees things differently and interprets everything differently as well. Now the information you quoted above I have not seen until now when I went to appealing a block and found a link to the page you are quoting from which has different information on it than what is on the page it is linked from. It even states on the linked to page that a block is to be used as a warning and I got the fact of the policy I broke. I’ve admitted to it and I can’t prove it while I’m blocked. Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 00:26, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I hate to say this, but Moneytrees is right. Come back in a couple of months and you'll be fine. In the mean time have a safe life. See you in a few, Best, Signed,The4lines |||| ^{(You Asked?) (What I have Done.)} 02:17, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Unblock discussion

Any reviewing admin may unblock w/o discussion with me at their discretion. --Deep fried okra (schalte ein) 02:18, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Deepfriedokra: TonyBallioni was the blocking admin? ——Serial^# 07:50, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but if you look higher, there is reference to achieving consensus among declining admins. Seeking my approval is not needed. --Deep fried okra (schalte ein) 13:22, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Appeal at UTRS 31707

This user is requesting unblock at https://utrs-beta.wmflabs.org/appeal/31707

I carry his request over for perusal. There are many admins who declined.

I have spent the past two weeks reviewing my disgusting behavior on Wikipedia and coming to the conclusion that I mistreated people who did not, and should not, have been mistreated when they were being helpful and pointing me in the right direction. Going forward, I will treat everyone with dignity and respect regardless of how they treat me so I do not get blocked again. I will also stick to CVU and editing articles without gI do see them potentially becoming a productive and collaborative editor.. oing to other places or venues that are outside my range of knowledge (whether policy or otherwise).

Accept? Decline? Carry to AN? Tell 'em to wait? --Deepfriedokra (talk) 12:43, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Moneytrees, AntiCompositeNumber, TonyBallioni, and Primefac: all the admins I saw. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 12:49, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You didn't look very hard, did you. Nick (talk) 13:16, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, I'm not an administrator. --AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 15:12, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Deepfriedokra, I’m generally on a wiki break right now, but saw the ping when I was on the site as a reader. My general thought is that per everything above, this should wait six months to appeal. That being said, if you or any other admin feels differently there’s no need to further contact me or have it go to AN.
In those circumstances I’d prefer an appeal be made on-wiki and an unblock occur here rather than in UTRS. That being said, my gut says it’s best to tell them no and to come back in 6 months for an appeal (with the explicit understanding that it is not automatic unblock in that time frame.) Also, I think you declined above, so probably best to let another admin handle UTRS if you agree with my thoughts. TonyBallioni (talk) 12:52, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Nick: Sorry Nick. THought I had you. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 13:41, 1 July 2020 (UTC) @TonyBallioni: I'm neutral. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 13:43, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW, I favor unblocking as user seems more composed than at the time of their block. Thoughts? --Deepfriedokra (talk) 14:15, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I think the issue that led to the block was that we’d consistently get promises of change, and then we’d have disruption in other areas or again. Our standard here isn’t whether or not they can make an unblock request without insulting others. The standard is have they actually changed the way they plan on behaving on Wikipedia. The reason I suggest declining is that I do not think a few weeks away is enough for them to change. There’s a reason our standard in these type of situations is usually six months before even considering an appeal: it takes a lot to be indef’d if you’re a known entity. It also takes a similar amount of effort to change. I don’t think that’s the case here. TonyBallioni (talk) 14:48, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I've thought about this for a while and I'm still on the fence. This appeal is blunt, and displays what needs to be heard, but I still feel like there should be more time between the block and the unblock in this case; not 6 months, maybe 2-3 more weeks. I don't doubt Galendalia has good intentions and is in good faith, but I feel like just a little more time away can't hurt. I don't think this should go to AN, I don't feel like much constructive will come of it. I would support restoration of talk page access at the least, though I would recommend refraining from long paragraph rants.Moneytrees🌴^{Talk🌲Help out at CCI!} 22:06, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Copying over user's reply to Tony.
I would like to address Tony’s concern. During my block time I have found areas that I think I can help out better at. Besides CVU, WPCleaner, and other automated tools. I’m looking at Edit requests and assisting those. This includes a promise to not touch user pages but instead inform them on their talk pages. I won’t participate in any major projects unless I’m invited and properly trained. I believe I have an invite for reference checking that I will be looking into.
--Deepfriedokra (talk) 22:11, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, user's comportment is better than I expected. I agree with 2-3 more weeks. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 22:13, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think what Tony said about the value of a longer cooling off period is good. In the two quoted replies above, they go from I will also stick to CVU and editing articles without going to other places or venues that are outside my range of knowledge to I have found areas that I think I can help out better at. Besides CVU, WPCleaner, and other automated tools. I’m looking at Edit requests and assisting those., in 24 hours, which is exactly the kind of overreach that got them in trouble in the first place. It was only three or four weeks ago that they were telling an admin who was trying to help to "go fuck you too" on my talk page. And as Tony Ballioni says further above in one of the interminable unblock requests, Their interactions with others as well as general competence issues (which they have not addressed satisfactorily either here or above, despite their claims) make them have a personality that just isn’t suited for a collaborative project. Six months is a good idea here, to allow for some substantive behaviour changes to set in. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 00:41, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As a user that intercated with Galendaila, I disagree with @Moneytrees: @Deepfriedokra:, I feel like we should give Galendaila 6 months. My main concerns are these: 1) Maturity, Galendaila "quit" 3 times. (I'm guessing in rage) If we have a editor that quits in rage and comes back, in my opinion is a lack of maturity and decisiveness. 2) Personal attacks, Galendaila attacked multiple edtiors, such as go fuck you too Go to Hell! (Twice) Take me to ani see if I give a fuck. This shows that they aren't ready, and we should keep the block on Galendaila for 6 months. Best, Signed,The4lines |||| ^{(You Asked?) (What I have Done.)} 03:23, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Response to TIMP-I carried over
Galendalia 2020-07-04 02:16:31 Response to TMIP-I am speaking of the edit requests from items like COI editors and such. I do not feel this is an over reach as I would need to verify what they say using reliable sources. I have done this in the past and zero of them were overturned. These are not any type of Dispute process boards or anything. I would need to dig for the link again but it is part of the master list of working on articles to help the articles expand. There are other lists too under special pages that I would work on slowly. I believe some of them are also linked from the home page under something called Help Out where it does a breakdown of articles needing help in some fashion.
--Deepfriedokra (talk) 09:01, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not an admin, but I've interacted with Galendalia. I think there's promise here. I think they're saying a lot of the right things, and I do think they're beginning to understand where the problems were. They're clearly eager to be a contributor, which is good. I would like to find a way to set them up for success. Is there some set of guidelines we can offer here to help put them on the right track? If we can find some structure here that Galendalia can stick to (without wikilawyering it), then fwiw, I'd be supportive of an unblock in the near future. I believe they had a mentor before, but I'm not sure they were really working with that mentor before taking actions in new areas. Waggie (talk) 02:18, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Last I remember, Nick Moyes was his mentor. Nick, if you would like to add your thoughts about the status of Galendalia's block, we'd love to hear them. Otherwise, please disregard this and hope you're doing well. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:26, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

1) Preamble: I appreciate the ping, Tenryuu as, stupidly, I failed to add Galendalia's talk user page to my watchlist, so I missed quite a bit that has been cracking off - I apologise for this. I didn't so much intend to offer to proactively mentor Galendalia, as to offer him a 'port of call' for advice if he ever needed it from me (see this short thread. I am not aware that he tried to contact me for help, either on or off wiki, following issues at the end of May. If I missed an off-wiki message, again I apologise to him, but can't find anything in my Inbox.

2) I'm pleased to find that Waggie and I are on the same page on this, as I also believe there's definitely promise here. But, I have to say, there has been far too much noise around Galendalia's editing since May, and not enough listening and acting on advice that was given by other well-meaning editors. I've spent an hour or two, trying to catch up on past events since he and I last had contact in May, and I frustrated that there's been a mixture of rage, kickbacks and refutation of issues, and not enough being done by Galendalia to listen and address the concerns raised. That might be because I wasn't proactive in offering support - but there's a limit to all the things I can do, and I wish they had come to my talk page and sought advice. I do sense there's he has an appreciation that the community is serious when it says it expects editors to listen, act, and not to repeat the same sorts of errors or attitudes that caused these problems. But I also feel from comments Galendalia has made in the past that taking some time away would be both beneficial to them and to the Project right now. So to that end I would think that any block should remain in effect until at least the end of September. Hopefully, they might want to return with a renewed attitude of collaboration for article editing, and I think then an initial restriction just to mainspace editing would be helpful to everyone. As Galendalia said, maybe in 10 years this will be something he can look back on and chuckle or cringe about, but for now we need to ensure we avoid disruption and don't lose potentially good editors. Their editing has been well-meaning, but sadly their execution and subsequent interactions were not always done as well. Nick Moyes (talk) 20:41, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There is no reason to rush into an unblocking when the user has a history of telling everyone what they want to hear. If they were to return in six months or sooner for one reason or another, they should be limited to the mainspace until they can prove competence. Unfortunately, their comments above lead me to believe that we would revisiting this sooner rather than later. Nihlus 07:22, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Restore TPA

@Nick Moyes: The appeal on UTRS, https://utrs-beta.wmflabs.org/appeal/31707, is still open if we want either to unblock now or restore TPA. User says I failed to @ThatMontrealIP:. I do so now. I, like the apellant, feel confused. I have no objection to unblocking if others feel the same way. I am confused by all the "nick"s @Nick:. Unblock? Decline? Restore TPA? --Deepfriedokra (talk) 22:16, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Deepfriedokra: I'd be in favour of hearing from Galendalia to see where discussion involving them directly leads. I am acutely aware previous discussions have involved us being told what we wanted to hear so I say that with a great deal of caution. Restore TPA. Nick (talk) 22:27, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Deepfriedokra, as the admin who revoked it, I’m also ok with tpa being restored. Moneytrees🌴^{Talk🌲Help out at CCI!} 22:35, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Again, I'm not an admin so sorry if I'm butting in here. To me, it looks like there is mild consensus to keep the block in place for at least awhile longer. I think the feeling is that if we unblock too soon, there won't be enough time to allow for a successful return. It does look like we're coming together with some ideas for Galendalia to move forward if/when they are unblocked. Given the general feelings above and Galendalia's statements at UTRS (that have been copied here), I think we can safely restore TPA and come back in a month or so and begin the conversation again with this discussion as a starting point. Does that make sense? I hope so. Again, sorry if I'm butting in, just trying to work towards resolution for everyone. I do hope that Galendalia understands what we're trying to accomplish, and that we do want them to ultimately become an editor in good standing. I think we all are ultimately hoping for a successful return and all this can be put in the past. Waggie (talk) 22:30, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Deepfriedokra: I'm unsure if you're asking me to post at the UTRS page (which I can view OK, but have not used before), or here. I'll start here. Yes, restore TPA, as suggested by both editors above. It would be good to hear from Galendalia now about their thoughts about when they feel would be the most appropriate or sensible time for them to return to simple, constructive editing. (I can post at utrs if you need me to) Nick Moyes (talk) 22:44, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support restoring TPA. --Deepfriedokra (talk)
@AntiCompositeNumber, TonyBallioni, and Primefac: Apologies if I left out anyone. I probably won't be back till Tuesday. Please feel free to proceed without me. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 22:57, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Talk page restored. Prefer appeals be made on-wiki anyway: still very skeptical of unblocking, but let it be public. TonyBallioni (talk) 23:02, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank You

Thank you all for allowing me to post directly back on my talk page. I very much appreciate it. I would be happy to answer any questions you may have. I have noticed that a majority are saying restricted to main space editing. That is what I promised with the opening of this appeal on UTRS. I would be using the Community Portal to find articles to work on such as typos spelling wiki links etc (basically I would use WPCleaner since it’s easier to fix articles that way at once). I hope this clears it up for everyone. Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 23:28, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Q&A

Hello Admins:

I have perused through everything in the last couple of threads. Please feel free to leave me questions, however please leave me space under your question so I may concisely and pointedly answer it. Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 02:17, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Galendalia: Bearing in mind some of the issues that have been raised with you which, sadly, were not resolved as quickly and as simply as we might have hoped, and considering your previously-expressed remarks about throwing in the towel, do you think it might actually be a good idea for you to take a few months off, away from Wikipedia, and to return, refreshed sometime in or after the autumn (fall)? If so, why? And if not, why not? Are you agreeable to restricting your edits to improving mainspace articles for an initial period after unblocking, and what would be a sensible timescale for that? Nick Moyes (talk) 18:48, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

My response: @Nick Moyes: - Thank you for the questions. I feel I am ready to come back. I learned a lot of what is acceptable and what is not. I also learned to accept everything as feedback and not take it as an attack on me (nor attack others). As I previously stated it would be working on articles if you look in the thank you section above. I would also like to return to reverting vandalism as it was something I was trained in but my rollback rights were reverted so I can not use Huggle or other simpler programs. It would be my hope to get that right back as soon as possible when I prove I can be trusted again. (PS: Nick Moyes, can you email me please? I can’t find your email and the site won’t let me email from mobile and my desktop is down ATM. Thanks!) Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 02:17, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@TonyBallioni:

@Moneytrees:

@Nick:

@Primefac:

@Deepfriedokra: No, I've none. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 16:55, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Deepfriedokra, acknowledged! Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 16:57, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Again thank you all in advance for your questions.

Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 16:07, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Non-Admin Q&A

Non-admins please feel free to post your questions here. I’m just attempting to keep a format for easier reading for me. Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 16:07, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Agreement Comment

Greetings @TonyBallioni, Deepfriedokra, Nick, Moneytrees, and Primefac: I have had an off-wiki email with Nick Moyes (talk · contribs) and after speaking~~, should my block be lifted without delay,~~ the following is what him and I came up with the understanding that should I violate these, then I get a ban and shall never be allowed on Wikipedia again. I am hoping for consensus on removing my block.

1. Stick to content creation in Mainspace for the first three months Avoid automated editing tools, except to identify problem edits to be manually fixed. (WPCleaner can be used to identify and fix errors; however if there is a question save the page on to-do list and ask at the tea house for advice without making the edit)

2. Stop work immediately in that area if anyone raises any concern about anything I've done and discuss with them (see next line).

3. Taking a polite, reflective and collaborative approach to all editor interactions

4. Reach out to Nick Moyes to discuss (or another administrator) if I want to move into a new area of work.

5. If I feel I might have done something wrong and want a 2nd opinion/review I must seek out help from an experienced editor or administrator.

6. Not to return to Spoken Wikimedia for nine months after successfully passing the original three month restriction (total of one year).

7. If I see an error on a users page I WILL NOT edit it, however, I will point it out in the users talk page.

8. I will not participate in CVU until the initial three month restriction is removed.

Thank you in advance for whatever you choose to do.

Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 19:42, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Just adding that "...my block be lifted without delay" was not part of that discussion, but is Galendalia's aspiration." Nick Moyes (talk) 20:34, 13 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

@Nick Moyes: Correct. Apologies about that. I know we discussed different time frames but my aspiration is as soon as possible. Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 20:43, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Just to state the obvious, anyone can sign up and not have any of the above numbered items that constitute editing restrictions. The fact that you need them points to the problem and why an unblock request is met with some uneasiness and skepticism. Just serve out the block and appeal in 5-6 months.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 21:00, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@ThatMontrealIP: Thank you for your comment. I appreciate it. Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 21:03, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, good job on #3, taking a polite approach. What about #2 Stop work immediately in that area if anyone raises any concern. This is the seventh section that amounts to a block appeal on this page, consuming lots of editor time. If someone really wanted to unblock you they would have done so by now. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 21:09, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@ThatMontrealIP: Thank you for the question. First off, please reference the entire statement, not just part of it because that can lead to it being read entirely wrong. The statement reads 2. Stop work immediately in that area if anyone raises any concern about anything I've done and discuss with them (see next line). As far as your question, are you referencing the attempts to get unblocked or are you referencing something else? If it is referencing the block I am working through it based on off wiki conversations and some of the comments above in the sections where admins asked questions. Thank you again. Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 21:17, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Surely there are some last remaining threads of WP:ROPE that can be given here? Galendalia has addressed the points of their block, stated the areas they'll take part in/avoid and has made it clear that they understand, if unblocked, that this will be their last chance for some time to come. Any agro suffered by the community the first time around obviously won't be repeated; they go back on their word, instant block. They may have embarked on a rather tumultuous learning curve, but they appear to have learned all the same. – ².O.^Boxing 21:27, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Squared.Circle.Boxing: Thank you for your kind words. I feel you are right. The rope is close enough to partially stop my breathing but hasn’t fully cut it off yet 🤣 Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 21:35, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I do not consider ROPE ever to be a good reason to unblock. It’s the single most harmful essay on Wikipedia. Unblocks are cheap is a myth. It is exceptionally hard to reblock someone. So no, I don’t think there’s any rope left. I think the entire essay should be marked historical. I’m not commenting on this unblock request other than to point out that in the past, we’ve received promises and disruption has gone elsewhere. I think Galendalia is incompatible with this project, but if they can convince another admin otherwise, I’m not going to stand in the way of an unblock. Extremely skeptical is an understatement, however. I won’t be adding more comments on this unblock. TonyBallioni (talk) 13:00, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings admins: As a side note I was reading WP:Rope and something seemed a little off to me. #1 under ‘Most likely reactions’ states Decline because they believe the editors to be lying. Also even if what the user claimed was true the user won't have a valid defence in the case of Example #2.. I looked at the history and noticed it was changed by an IP editor about a month ago to add on Also even if what the user claimed was true the user won't have a valid defence in the case of Example #2.. I am not sure if that should be in there as it does not make sense. I looked at their edits from last month and they were all about changing the essays particularly one. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/92.26.51.84). I do not want to change them because 1) I am not familiar enough with policy and 2) I can’t. Thank you! Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 06:29, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Like Tony above, I'm also extremely skeptical of an early unblock. Firstly, the time and patience of experienced editors is Wikipedia's most precious resource, and this user has already sucked up a frightful amount of that resource. Secondly, Galendalia has managed to quarrel with and assume bad faith of Ponyo of all people[1] — I don't remember ever seeing that before, it's ridiculous. In my opinion there should be at least six months before an unblock request is entertained by the community. Bishonen | tålk 19:59, 20 July 2020 (UTC).[reply]

I stand with not unblocking galendalia per my cmt above: (As a user that intercated with Galendaila, I disagree with Moneytrees Deepfriedokra, I feel like we should give Galendaila 6 months. My main concerns are these: 1) Maturity, Galendaila "quit" 3 times. (I'm guessing in rage) If we have a editor that quits in rage and comes back, in my opinion is a lack of maturity and decisiveness. 2) Personal attacks, Galendaila attacked multiple edtiors, such as go fuck you too Go to Hell! (Twice) Take me to ani see if I give a fuck. This shows that they aren't ready, and we should keep the block on Galendaila for 6 months.)

Signed,The4lines |||| ^{(You Asked?) (What I have Done.)} 02:00, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@TonyBallioni, Bishonen, and The4lines: Thank you for your feedback. It is very much appreciated. Galendalia Talk to me ^{CVU Graduate} 06:47, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Update

Update: @Bishonen, Deepfriedokra, Moneytrees, Nick, Primefac, and TonyBallioni:recent events make the discussion now, perhaps, moot. ——Serial 18:22, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Disappointed and unsurprised in equal measure. Nick (talk) 18:26, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Now that this has happened, this discussion should be quickly closed. It may be reopened in 6 months (currently Jan. 27, 2021) with no socking. Username⁶⁸⁹² 18:28, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not bloody likely. Try Jan 27 2022 now. Nick (talk) 18:46, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Goddammit man, for real? June 14? Please just take a break for half a year / 2 years and maybe come back if you still care. And please don’t sock. I still have faith in you, but.... come on.Moneytrees🏝️^{Talk🌴Help out at CCI!} 19:10, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What is disappointing is that they were socking during the entirety of the most recent discussion above, "Appeal at UTRS 31707". The sock account was opened in Early June, and then continuously used until it was discovered. So while a half dozen admins and a bunch of other good faith users were considering the above, they were knowingly violating the block. I'm sure they will be back to make an unblock request sooner or later, so it's important to note this.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 18:54, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Jesus wept. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 19:37, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Just saw this.... ouch Galendalia took a path, a wrong one to say the least. Signed,The4lines |||| ^{(You Asked?) (What I have Done.)} 02:01, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Saw the second sockpuppet which got blocked and translated into a ban. This is unfortunate and disappointing. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 04:57, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's a shame as Galendalia clearly seemed to be trying to make good edits, I agree with Moneytrees, please come back in around 1 year and show you really care. I wish you the best. — Yours, Berrely • ^Talk∕_Contribs 12:43, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Intentional socking actions like this make me wonder why I bother to try to support editors who encounter difficulties. Such a waste of everyone's time and talents. Bloody hell, Galendalia. You ~~silly idiot~~ daft ha'p'orth! Nick Moyes (talk) 22:38, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This would constitute as gravedancing, and I can see why Nardog would consider calling someone an idiot to be a personal attack. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 01:33, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Using the phrase "silly idiot" was not intended as a personal attack for one moment, as explained on my talk page, but am happy to strike and reword, using a more friendly term of frustration at Galendalia's disappointing behaviour. Nick Moyes (talk) 12:03, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Your access to AWB may be temporarily removed

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