User talk:El C/generic sub-page23

Re: Bad fanfiction

Long time no see! I enjoyed your comments on the talk page for our Rings of Bezos article, but you'll forgive me for not wanting to touch any of this "viewer reaction" stuff on that page. Said stuff, AFAIAC, is the result of Amazon engaging in tokenism and placing their fanfic characters, many of whom are played by Black actors, front and centre in the marketing, with the clear intent that (a) the "anti-woke" crowd would add their voices to the existing nervousness surrounding Amazon creating Tolkien fanfiction that, in the minds of the general public, will now surely overwrite Tolkien's own writings, and (b) this reaction then be used by Amazon to smear everyone who is nervous as a cyber-fascist. Given that I was already sceptical about the show before anyone was complaining about supposedly colour-blind casting (as I was about those awful Hobbit movies), and that I had myself been targeted by such cyber-fascists (back before the Trump era, when they were just called trolls) on this very site, you will surely appreciate why I find such shenanigans absurd and more than a little offensive.

As for why I say "tokenism" and "supposedly" colour-blind casting, it's pretty obvious that they cast white actors to play Galadriel, Elrond, Gil-galad, Isildur, Annatar, et al. is because they consider whiteness to be a core component of their characters rather than something incidental that doesn't matter. I enjoy the acting in The Mahabharata (1989 film), and IMO the only problem with that film's colour-blind casting is that it largely consisted of a white director hiring white actors to play characters who are traditionally portrayed as ethnically Indian, but they didn't leave Indians out of the cast, and there are Africans and "East Asians" in prominent roles too, not to mention that of the three full-brothers who lead the cast two are white and one is Black, which can be read as a powerful statement on the arbitrariness of "race". The present show, meanwhile, while it can claim the fact that its (mostly white?) producers have cast people of colour in roles that a "traditional interpretation" to be white as a point in its favour over The Mahabharata (where a "non-white story" was made "more white"), it still seems to have made all the non-fanfic, non-background characters white, and I've seen no evidence that this was done for any reason other than that the showrunners consider whiteness to be a more integral part of, for example, Galadriel's character than her being a representative of the Virgin Mary in Tolkien's Catholicism.

Anyway, I agree with you that the writing is poor and feels like bad fanfiction in places. But I have my doubts as to whether any Hollywood screenwriter -- even one experienced at writing good fanfiction -- is capable of writing dialogue like But how shall a man discover whether that time be come or no, save by daring the Door? or Alas that a fey mood should fall on a man so greathearted in this hour of need! If anyone could, they'd be ostracized by the industry long before they were allowed anywhere near a franchise that cost its studio a billion dollars. It seems pretty obvious that Amazon realized their mistake too late to back out completely but not to late to adopt the marketing strategy described in the preceding paragraph.

Anyway, sorry for the rant.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 23:49, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

No, not at all, Hijiri 88. This is a safe space for rants! ;) Race in Tolkien's mythos (or legendarium as he called it) was always geography based, but even at a relatively young age, I remember it bothering me that blacks (in the south) were depicted in such a negative way. So I don't at all mind modernizing that by adding people of colour all over Middle Earth / Arda. And I also don't at all mind heroines over heroes. On the contrary. I'm currently 2/3 into Green Rider, whose protagonist, Karigan, is a young woman. And I'm liking it a lot. Good character, good world building. I don't mind authors whose politics lean right in fiction, so long as the story isn't expressly reactionary.

I'm biased though, so left and right are not the same to me in that sense. So, when left politics are more overt, like, say, with Terry Brooks' Word & Void trilogy (which has a female lead btw, Nest), that's fine, and those are great. But I didn't even know the other Terry, Terry Goodkind, was politically reactionary (libertarian) until years later when I read it in passing. And I still kept buying his books even after, because they're really good. I also liked the Sam Raimi TV adaptation Legend of the Seeker (++ BDSM!). Which ties to Green Rider as its top review on the sleeve is by Goodkind himself. It's likely that him and Kristen Britain are friends, because the main river in the book is called "Terrygood" (lol!).

But tokenism is a good term for this advent of poorly-written, unlikable female characters in many series and films. Female characters that don't really grow because there isn't much stakes. That, coupled with all men being bad, or cowards, or simply tokens to prop up the female leads (unless the men are of colour), almost always results in unwatchable trash. I think the reason for that is the corporate execs hire terrible people like themselves to write these. People who, like themselves, are imitation-progressives. Largely, mercifully, I haven't seen that trend extend to books (though not to jinx it!). The thing about Karigan, Kristen Britain's female lead in Green Rider, for example, is that she is vulnerable, but hardships makes her fierce, and she ultimately preserves. More of those female leads, please! Anyway, good to see you and thanks for sharing your thoughtful thoughts (as always). All the best, El_C 00:38, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Check out To Sleep in a Sea of Stars for some decent female lead, and an alien bioweapon suit. The Gap Cycle also has excellent female characters.

The rings of bezos definitely isn't great, but so far I think it's fine. It's got swords and such. I think part of the casting for the main characters is that they're trying to make them look somewhat similar to the actors in the Jackson movies, so they can benefit a bit from fans of those movies. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:02, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

The Rings of Bezos — lol! I gotta use that! Again, unlike many of those who are critical of the show, I was entertained (it doesn't take much to entertain me, though), but I still found it to be trash. Thanks for the books recommends, I'll definitely keep those in mind, though I might order the remaining three Green Rider novels first. El_C 01:12, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Hijiri 88 used the Rings of Bezos above, so they get credit for that. I think I mentioned The Gap Cycle to you before. Best books I've ever read, though emotionally exhausting at times. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:17, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Shit, I missed that, and I thought I read it closely. :( El_C 01:24, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but now there's no other option but for you to resign you admin tools for the crime of giving attribution for an amusing phrase to the wrong person. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:42, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

To quote James Randal: I'm scared. El_C 01:45, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

I think my biggest critique is that evil returned from hiding literally the same week the elf King is like "Yep, officially no more evil. Call back all of the evil-looker-out-forers." And the sailers moving ropes scene was pretty trash. "Quick! Unlash the rope, pull on it when it's tied off to a pulley that can't possibly work, then relash it!" And gratuitous slow motion horse riding along a beach with a fierce smile.

Okay, maybe it's not very good. :/ ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 23:07, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

I think, on average, episode 3 actually had more okay'ish scenes than the first 2 episodes (which, in itself, is a blunder), but yeah, as I was saying, it's trash. Refactoring from here. Scene from episode one (verbatim).

Elrond: But Galadriel, as a friend, I wanna know how you're doing.

Galadriel: Get fucked. I wanna speak to your manager!

//And... scene. El_C 23:17, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

But as I was also saying, there's also some great talent pool, but they're just being wasted by terrible writing and absurd character motivations. And not just the cast is wasted. For eg., Bear McCreary is amazing (song spam refactor), but what is with all the repetition? And not everything needs to be orchestral. Jeesh. El_C 23:24, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Just finished the episode and all I could think of was the "you tried" gold star comic sans ms meme. Also, I think of you can single chop through a 2 for diameter log in a single swing, you could probably just hulk out of the chains. I also laughed out loud at the warg.

On the topic of tokenism, I get they want more representation, but getting it by giving the white main characters non-white children seems weird. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 23:48, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

That orc was, like, you killed my service warg! El_C 00:55, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

I home I'm not the only person who misread the original post as accusing Amazon of engaging in Tolkienism. ~Awilley (talk) 03:46, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

• Thank you both for the above (I enjoyed your replies, but I can't remember if I used the "thank" function at the time). I wasn't going to come back to this (I found Wikipedia's coverage of modern Hollywood toxic before Donald Trump was even elected -- ask me about the textual plagiarism, OR, and huge chunks of articles based almost entirely on first-party PR materials in our "Marvel Cinematic Universe" articles, and my disastrous attempts to clean them up, sometime...). But now that the season is almost over and seemingly an ever larger segment of at least Tolkien fandom and professional critics (if not reflected in the TomatoMeter, where everything other than "I hate this show and everyone involved in it" constitutes praise and acclaim) have come around to a viewpoint approximating my own, and that the writers all but admitted in the show that they had forgotten who Celeborn was because he was barely in the Peter Jackson films (and seemingly both Ian McKellen and Cate Blanchett, if not Peter Jackson, forgot about him about him when making those Hobbit movies[1]). But I've been reading the Carpenter Letters anthology, and I noticed that in Letter 45 Tolkien essentially calls out a near-contemporary of his (some amateur painter named Adolf) as a "ruddy little ignoramus" who was only pretending to be interested in Germanic mythology as a pretext to advance his own political agenda. Given what some crypto-fascists have been claiming ("I've totally always been into Tollkien [sic] and am appalled by what Amazon are doing to his legacy"), I had a bit of a chuckle at that passage. (And yeah, I know those fascists are an increasingly small minority of people criticizing the show. But it was still somewhat upsetting when one of their videos showed up in my YouTube recommendations because as far as the YouTube robots are concerned fascist posers are totally the same thing as Tolkien fans who like the colour-blind casting and were cautiously optimistic about this show right up until it came out and was pretty bad.) Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 06:58, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

I sort of ranted further about this subject here. But the short of it is that Incest Dragons has good writing and experienced showrunners, whereas Amazon inexplicably gave Bored of the Rings to inexperienced, pretentious writers and showrunners that rank high on the Dunning–Kruger scale. And they are now in panic mode, leading to hilarious contradictions: on the one hand, professing to love the Tolkien mythos, but at the same time, also calling it fascist-adjacent. Ultimately, though, these imitation-progressives can blame the viewers and virtue signal till the cows come home, but they cannot not conceal the naked reality. It being that a soap opera, even the most expensive one in history, will always fall short when it tries for immersion.

That's because dumbing down everything isn't immersive, fundamentally so. Even at the unconscious level, jumping off a ship hundreds of miles from, well, anywhere — is super-dumb. Or surviving direct contact with a pyroclastic flow (and keeping one's hair, even) — is also super-dumb. The showrunners' latest panic (at the Hollywood Reporter IIRC), calling criticism of the show (without qualifications!) "patently evil" shows the kind of people they truly are: hollow and wholly devoid of reflection no matter what. It reminds me of the latest underhanded attempts to paint Amber Heard as a victim (at Jezebel IIRC) despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. That's because evidence and substance isn't something that matters to them.

No one does more damage to genuine progressives than these fakers. But that's not a new thing. There's countless examples: like, Hillary Clinton praising the incumbent Italian PM, neo-fascist Giorgia Meloni, solely because she's a woman. And so on and so forth, it ebbs and flows, taking new forms, as it has since time immemorial. El_C 16:26, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

I wouldn't use "Bored of the Rings" as that's got its own article and is a well-known spoof from The Harvard Lampoon. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{a little blue Bori} 04:38, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Reverts by Volunteer Marek

Hello El_C, user VM have reverted two of my edits in the Snake Island article. In one of the reverts he uses a false reason on the edit summary, it's correctly sourced a Ukrainian media and Ukrainian Decree, other user have reintroduced my edit, but I know it will be short loved because Volunteer Marek with his harsh way of editing and it's uncivil behaviour always reverts without considering consensus made at talk pages. Mr.User200 (talk) 14:02, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Mr.User200, please proofread your comments, they are challenging to read. Anyway, if you reach an impasse on the article talk page wrt the reliability of sources, WP:RSN would usually be your next step in the dispute resolution process. As for lapses in WP:CIVIL: VM has been a perennial violator of that policy for many years, but nothing has been done to remedy it thus far, save for the occasional warning. And it's especially unlikely to change here, in this instance, for a number of reasons that go beyond the scope of this. El_C 16:05, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

October music

October songs

Cool power station bro!

Today is Erntedank in Germany, thanksgiving, and we celebrated our village's 650th anniversary, and had the dress rehearsal for Verdi's Requiem with an interesting band of marimba, piano, horn, bass, timpani and drum, - concert tomorrow, our national holiday. Seeing a pic I took on the Main page was also a nice harvest. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:13, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Would you find time for last weeks Psalm 48? Turning to the following one today. - Did I tell you that our soprano on 3 October was born in Jerusalem. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:51, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

Nice, happy thanksgiving! Yes: 48  Done. El_C 16:39, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, - next Psalm 49, whenever you have time. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:40, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

49  Done. El_C 10:23, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

thank you! - new day, another pictured DYK (but not pictured by me this time): look at power work tensions (if you translate) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:43, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Sweet. BTW, I too am a fan of Judith Bob Weir, even though he does get overexcited a lot (which I mostly find endearing). El_C 19:55, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Nice! - I did for Leon Schidlowsky what I could, which isn't enough for the RD corner because many things - related to his wife, conductors, students, works - is not referenced. Could you please check if there's anything in Hebrew supplying all these things? I have no time to do puzzle work. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:29, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the Hebrew page is brief and poorly-referenced. Little if anything of what it says isn't already repeated in its English counterpart, and hardly any of it is directly-referenced. It does provide links to some newspapers snippets (screens), mostly from the 70s, but they don't really say anything too germane, biographically.

Interestingly, though, in one of the interviews he's asked about a Jewish parallel to Che Guevara, and he mentions Yair Stern, which is... novel. But he does come across as a very humane and thoughtful person. Some of his thoughts on music theory are very deep. I'm far from a music novice and I could barely understand half of it. But the crux of it seems to be his drive towards a synesthesia of sorts. Like, referencing Skriabin's view on light and colour, and so on. Again, much of it went over my head.

The Hebrew page also has a link to entries (100+) about him at the National Library, but they're all either physical copies of works, or links to notations and recordings. I listened to a few of those recordings, like Nacimiento, The White Queen, and Golem. But I didn't really like any of em. It just isn't my cup of tea. It's too chaotic for my taste; too formless and structureless-sounding (and eerie), but without any melodic payload. Sorry, I couldn't be of more help! El_C 04:36, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you so much, this is great help. I had no time to listen, for example - am a bit ashamed now. - So, we agree that the English article is quite good as it is, but not good enough for RD. It was a user's only contrib, did you know? Someone who knew him well, but added no sources. What you could do is, add the interview to the external links, for those who want to know more about his thinking. Yes, it was the mentioning of El C that made me think you might be interested ;) - Thank you exposing the power station ("power work", if you translate German) where I went with my father! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:26, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

No, I was unaware, I didn't look at the revision history. Last edit was 2014, though, and not much activity otherwise. First edit (in 2009) was to Pablo Neruda, though, so, Like. I'm not sure adding a screenshot to an Israeli Hebrew-language newspaper, even if it's my favourite newspaper, would be that useful to an English-language page tbh. The only time I do something like that with a Hebrew source is if it references something specific, with the pertinent excerpt translated to English in the ref. RE: it was the mentioning of El C that made me think you might be interested — sorry, you lost me. El_C 14:33, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

He set text by Che Guevara to music, no more, no less. I'm determined to write about his Missa Sine Nomine, just because it seems an extraordinary idea. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:38, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Oh, El_Comandante, of course! I probably need more coffee, as that was pretty dim of me. Not even a puzzle (on the Gerda-scale or otherwise). RE: Missa sine nomine — cool, looking forward to reading it. El_C 14:43, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Do you think you could find any Israeli sources for Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Avi Berman? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:53, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the Hebrew wiki page has only three sources, two of them belong to the subject (their own official website and YouTube channel). The other, from opusmagazine.co.il by way of the wayback machine, only mentions him one time and relatively briefly. It may simply be that the Hebrew wiki standards for domestic notability are lower than EN's. But they generally also have fewer sources on average than EN, so that might account for that, instead. But from having read his bio, I suspect it's likely to be the former. Personally, I'd probably still keep it, if I had my way, because what's the harm? To sum up: as far as I'm able to infer atm, while it may or may not be within the scope of WP:COMPOSER, if it isn't, it probably wouldn't be by a lot. HTH. El_C 17:24, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Understand. - I had this other one, all Spanish, almost there, last day today, then came the problem of the works: WP:ITNN, look for Adam Ferrero. - today's DYK: two facts from the two concert of this years Rheingau Musik Festival I liked best, both a cappella singing. If you follow the songs, you see a circus, where I performed singing, and in the end the whole tent joined for Dona nobis pacem. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:20, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

The Spanish one made it! - who shall separate us? - Psalm 52 please --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:45, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

TFA Ich will den Kreuzstab gerne tragen, BWV 56, - third time went well --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:10, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Nice! Third time's the baseball. 52  Done. El_C 22:46, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

thank you - today a woman in red, cellist Ella van Poucke, with a video in the article - will turn to Psalm 53 after this --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:28, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

... followed by the new hall where she played - I always like to see my pics on the Main page, - then the mezzo of our Verdi concert, finally don't miss Hannah Pick-Goslar, - met a cat today, pictured --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:54, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

You had me at cat! El_C 07:15, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

leaving the month with reformation and a cat treat - same cat --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:57, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Use of inappropriate language

Hi El_C hope you are doing great. I've noticed that this kind [[2]] of talkpage participation isn't a productive one. I have the feeling that simply providing an argument that a co-editor 'is ridiculous' and 'saying nonsense' just because he happens to disagree is not the correct way to support a view. Also notice that the specific user was blocked less than 2 months ago due to socking [[3]]. I feel that a warning message in his talkpage is justified.Alexikoua (talk) 03:40, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Hey. Doing alright, thanks. Unfortunately, I can't spare the time at present to take on any new requests. But if you feel that it's warranted, you can bring the matter for review at a noticeboard, like WP:AE or WP:ANI. Good luck! El_C 08:20, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

A clarification should be made here just for the sake of correctness. @Alexikoua: Fieraku was not socking, hence he was unblocked by the admins involved in the issue. I followed the relevant discussion myself, Fieraku did not use his accounts in breach of the socking policy. Please do not mention that block as evidence of disruption again. Ktrimi991 (talk) 12:46, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

For the record he was recently blocked due to edit warring. Perhaps a warning could have prevented this sad development but this short-term block maybe force him finally to avoid aggressive speech.Alexikoua (talk) 02:37, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

IP returned

You had protected Puyi because there was a edit war for the infobox. You said we should go talk pagei (I dit) but the same IP is not interested in the talk despite he said I should start the discussion [4] could you add semi protection Shadow4dark (talk) 08:19, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected for a period of 3 weeks, after which the page will be automatically unprotected. El_C 08:24, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Appealing my topic ban at administrators noticeboard

I will soon be posting an appeal to a topic ban you put in place for me a year ago. I will be doing so at the administrators' noticeboard. I am notifying you in posting this.

I would appreciate if you would give attention to my appeal and provide a statement as the imposing administrator. I understand a year is a lot of time, and you would need to both re-familiarize yourself with the matter that spurred the ban, review my appeal, and explore my contributions/journey as an editor in the year since it was imposed. I recognize that this is a lot to ask you to do, and that we all are busy people. But if you could consider giving some attention and input on my appeal, I would value that.

Well wishes. SecretName101 (talk) 17:44, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

SecretName10, sorry, but I'd rather not participate. Last time, you claimed I reignited a micro aggression towards [you] and other things (permalink), so that was enough for me. Thank you. El_C 18:22, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm sorry to hear that, and apologize for having been so reactive in my initial reaction and first appeal.

I have not mention this previously on the project, but the sanction was also imposed at a time of personal turmoil for me. So in my immediate reaction and first appeal, if I appear emotionally reactive, it is because I was in an immensely heightened emotional state. It at what was already one of the lowest points of my life in terms of emotional health. I'm rather hesitant to share this as I type. SecretName101 (talk) 18:40, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

SecretName101, I'm sorry to hear that and I wish you the best with your struggles, but even irrespective of that (as I mention two threads up), I simply can't spare the time at present. El_C 18:52, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Understood. I'm much better now as it's been a year's time, and appreciate the well-wish. As I mentioned in my first post, I completely recognize that it is a great time commitment. I further understand you not wishing to exert yourself extending a favor to me after unpleasant past interaction. I do hope my shedding a light does help you feel less frustrated towards me if we ever cross paths elsewhere in our editing in a different context, however. SecretName101 (talk) 18:55, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

For sure; no grudges on my end. I'm just very busy right now. Hope it all works out amicably. I'll update the permalink at AN to reflect the rest of our conversation here. Regards, El_C 19:42, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Bothriospilini

Protection probably isn't necessary there; I have already stopped, and with it on KoA's preferred version they can't continue. BilledMammal (talk) 06:02, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Ah, understood. El_C 06:04, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Article about French universities

Hello, you have contributed to the request made by Ransouk against me. I have had a dispute with this user for some time now who imposes his "POV pushing" on the Assas page (of which he is obviously a student). He systematically evades my requests to discuss sources, etc., while the offending pages are pure advertisements. I am still a beginner and my contributions can be improved, I sometimes lose my temper, but his behaviour is simply intolerable. Do you think you could give us some of your precious time to help us improve articles (you seem very experienced). Or someone you know who might have the time. Aigurland (talk) 17:19, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Aigurland, you need to avoid personal speculations about your content opponent, such as he is obviously a student. How would you know that? How would you even know that they are a he? Above all else, how is making these speculations without proof relevant to anything? As you may or may not know, I've already fully-protected Paris 2 Panthéon-Assas University back in Feb due to editing disputes. From what I'm able to discern, both of you could improve, and should seek outside input on respective article talk pages — I outlined how to do that at the ANI thread.

While Ransouk should be more responsive, you for your part, should stick to the facts of the matter, and avoid personal comments and badgering them. Keep conversations in one place rather than splitting them to user talk pages (you split it from article talk pages to his user talk page; or from the ANI complaint to mine). Sorry, I'm unable to assist you with the content end of things, because as an uninvolved admin, I am precluded from doing so; but also, this is not a subject with which I am familiar. Again, trying to solicit outside input to these disputes would be the way forward. In addition to the dispute resolution requests I mentioned at ANI, there may be also Wikiprojects which you could seek assistance from by posting a neutral request. G'luck. El_C 18:04, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

You're right about the speculation, it's inappropriate, hopefully someone on the ANI can respond. Goodbye. Aigurland (talk) 18:37, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

RE: List of hood films

He's bad HarrySONofBARRY

Please edit list of Hood films 174.247.224.179 (talk) 05:52, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

IP, this comment is incoherent, especially how you originally posted it, as an indented comment to an unrelated discussion. What is even He's bad HarrySONofBARRY? Please stop posting nonsense at HarrySONofBARRY's talk page. Please stop posting nonsense, in general. As was already (sorta) explained to you (?) at Talk:List of hood films, you need to provide citations for any additions to the list. Also, please use punctuation and a semblance of readable grammar — this is not a chatroom, and even if it were one, it'd still be borderline incomprehensible. Thanks. El_C 14:18, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Appealing my topic ban at administrators noticeboard [2]

I have appealed at AN Venkat TL (talk) 11:18, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Need a good laugh?

Despite our recent disagreement, I thought you would get a laugh out of this. --Kansas Bear (talk) 13:52, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Query on an AN comment

Hey. In your comment here, you made an interesting point about [running] into users that perfected walking the line like a tight rope without ever crossing it in a major way. In general terms, how do you suggest handling editors like that? Both from an admin perspective, but also an editor who encounters that sort of behaviour most days. Sideswipe9th (talk) 18:45, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

WP:TBAN/s, because when, overall, the reoccurrence is consistent, the incremental is still very much damaging and pernicious, even if less visible as attrition. El_C 18:51, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. Yeah that would have the effect of handling the disruption. It's easier said than done though in some cases, but I guess that goes beyond the realm of generality :) Sideswipe9th (talk) 18:55, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Request

Hey, could you take a look at User talk:ButterCashier#Concerns? I'm not sure what's going on, but it looks like something that could use administrator attention (or at least an experienced user) —VersaceSpace 🌃 18:30, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

I missed this, but it looks like they were blocked for 6 months in the end. El_C 09:10, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Request for removal of protection

Dear user El_C, unfortunately your protection of the Pavel Fuks page has left a lot of unreliable information without sources, added by newly created and unregistered users who commit vandalism, as well as their removal of information with sources, including links to official information agencies of Ukraine. Example: User Rolf Linge added false information about Russian nationality in revision 1116409358. (I note that the user registered on Wikipedia and made revisions only on one day - 16 October 2022). This false information has been corrected with arguments. However, a user from IP address 2607:fea8:c3a0:b7a0:4937:d3ed:d8a8:db04 (Canada) in revision 1120158168 returned including the above information. This change was canceled with reasons. Soon, a user from the IP address 45.128.189.62 (Ukraine) in revision 1120380532 returned the above information as well, thus setting up a war of edits without discussion on the Talk page. Other changes were also added, which were made deliberately with the aim of compromising the reliability and authority of the encyclopedia. In violation of the rules, information was removed from the Philanthropy section, which was confirmed by the news agency. I draw your attention to the need to take measures against violators of the rules, to maintain a balance regarding the biographies of living people and public figures. Setting page protection left fake information without being able to fix it for ordinary users without the appropriate status. It is also worth noting that the edit warring on the specified page is not related to the WP:GS/RUSUKR problem, and therefore the protection is not applied quite correctly. -- Ded Prorok (talk) 01:23, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Ded Prorok, I don't understand how it's not WP:GS/RUSUKR? In your the revert, you had removed (in part): Fuks is a Russian and a Ukrainian citizen (diff) — that's Russian (RUS) and Ukrainian (UKR) in the same sentence. How can that not be germane? Anyway, I'm not really inclined to get into the weeds of this content dispute. Try to build WP:CONSENSUS on the article talk page for your position. If you reach an impasse there, you could maybe seek out a 3rd opinion, or even go for a full Request for comment. Hope that matter gets resolves amicably. El_C 03:28, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Ded Prorok, I forgot to mention: if there's a genuine WP:BLP concern that's somehow being overlooked here, you could also raise that particular problem at WP:BLPN. Thanks again. El_C 04:05, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

El_C, thanks for the advice, I will definitely use it. But I want to note that the indication of fake information about citizenship without substantiating any sources does not concern the war between the states. In addition, there are many unreliable corrections that concern the business and social activities of a person, in this regard there are even court decisions against fraud and the spread of unreliable information by news websites. So in this case there is a clear violation of a number of rules, including Wikipedia:Reliable sources. I quote the paragraph: "Contentious material about living persons (or, in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion." So I urge you as an administrator to stand guard over the fundamental rules of Wikipedia and, first of all, remove information without sources, and not leave it to the protection of the page - in this case, this protection played the opposite negative role. -- Ded Prorok (talk) 10:30, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

El_C, sorry, but you are probably confusing citizenship and nationality. For example, US citizens can be Italian, German, or Japanese by nationality (ethnic origin), but have a US passport. There is official news with the publication of relevant documents that this person renounced his Russian passport and, accordingly, withdrew from Russian citizenship long before the start of the full-scale invasion of Russia into Ukraine and has long been engaged in charity work in Ukraine. At the same time, the person was born in Ukraine, always had a passport and citizenship of Ukraine. In addition, there is official information that the person's nationality is Ukrainian, not Russian. At the same time, newly created accounts and unregistered users (I suspect that they are related) provide information about Russian nationality, which is not confirmed by anything at all. There are reasons to investigate the attack on the page and the purposeful introduction of false information by a number of users. -- Ded Prorok (talk) 14:04, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

You are quoting very basic things for me, which are not necessary. The subject's renouncement of his Russian citizenship is a WP:GS/RUSUKR matter now, among editors, at the very least. As an WP:UNINVOLVED admin, I am not allowed to involve myself in this content dispute, unless there's something truly egregious, which in three posts now, you have failed to prove in a simple and straight-forward way. Therefore, I explained to you how to go about alerting your concern to other editors. But not me and not here anymore, is the point. Good luck. El_C 14:48, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Music Vandalism

A user called Binksternet has been vandalizing music templates and needs to be blocked for good. Could you do this? 97.80.178.124 (talk) 21:17, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Do you mean the same Binksternet who over 6 months ago reverted this change[5] to Electronic body music and this one[6] to Red Dirt (music)? Presumably it's just coincidence that the IP editor who made the unsourced changes in question geolocates to the same place that your IP address does of Gainesville, Georgia? Chaheel Riens (talk) 21:27, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

There's also a recent thread about Binksternet at the WPO (link), but I haven't read its OP because it's really long (like, scrolling long). El_C 21:42, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

The guy who started that thread isn't me, but he raised a lot of good points on Binksternet. 97.80.178.124 (talk) 22:01, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

Well, as I said, that WPO OP is really long, so I didn't read it and am unlikely to do so. Your OP here, though, has the opposite problem, and is probably worse. It's way too brief, asking for an indef block for 'vandalism' by a veteran user with zero evidence attached. Also, kinda mistaking my talk page for a noticeboard. To be blunt, I'm just that interested. Not that interested in this, specifically, or taking on anything substantial single-handedly, in general, most especially on-the-blind like this. El_C 22:16, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

What I meant was that Binksternet keeps removing genres from music templates without consent. 97.80.178.124 (talk) 02:41, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, I gathered there's some sort of a WP:GENREWAR happening, but you've provided no reference point to anything (whatsoever), so even if I were inclined to look into this (which, again, I'm not really), I lack the... well, omniscience to draw any specific inferences. Anyhow, as I said, this isn't an area that I'm too familiar with, so probably best to bring your concerns to a public venue if you wish to have the matter reviewed. You would be expected to submit evidence in the form of WP:DIFFs, though. Thanks. El_C 03:07, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Edit request

Hi. Could you please take a look at this edit request, if you don't mind? It has been there for a week already and nobody has a response regarding Tombah's undiscussed changes. I don't know where else to recourse. Thanks.Noha Erssam (talk) 06:24, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Noha Erssam. I mean, I'll nominally close that edit request, but I'm gonna do it like that because I don't see why it's needed as such in the first place, for a number of reasons. First, the two editors who responded are both extended confirmed, so either one of them could affect whatever edits they see fit. That said, if you don't understand an editor's changes, probably the simplest way to gain that understanding would be to WP:PING them to that discussion and ask them, so they could explain. Otherwise, it's likely they don't even know the discussion exists.

The other thing is that it's not really a proper edit request, just a normal discussion. Edit requests are meant to be simple and straight-forward, like, change X to Y, add A, remove B, and so on — not complex and multi-part. What you have there is just a normal discussion. So, yeah, I'll close it accordingly. But you are welcome to continue that conversation, and I hope the matter of contention resolves amicably. There's just no need to have to go through the confines of WP:ER (which would have WP:NODEADLINE, anyway, especially for an WP:ARBPIA page). HTH. El_C 07:27, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

A request for input

Hi, I am Requesting few inputs @ User talk:Dev0745 who seems to have been previously sanctioned by you. Bookku (talk) 13:48, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Sorry that was unrelated sanction to the topic I was discussing. Sorry for bothering you. Bookku (talk) 15:06, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Discretionary sanctions review: proposed decision and community review

You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to updates on the Arbitration Committee's discretionary sanctions review process. The Proposed Decision phase of the discretionary sanctions review process has now opened. A five-day public review period for the proposed decision, before arbitrators cast votes on the proposed decision, is open through November 18. Any interested editors are invited to comment on the proposed decision talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:56, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Request an account

Hello. I would like to make a request for an account. I have already done three times there, to no avail (did not even get a response on my e-mail once). If you could help me with this, I would be more than thankful. Thank you in advance for your time. 2A02:85F:F06F:9101:5CE5:BC0:E843:BC9A (talk) 11:57, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

Hey. The short of it is that I don't know, as it isn't really an area of the project I'm familiar with. I registered in 2004 and back then, even the underscore in El_C wasn't supported by some Wikimedia projects. Are you still wanting to have the username start with Delta (Δ) and/or have other letters in the Greek alphabet? (If that's you.) Because that should not be an issue now, I'm almost positive. Anyway, probably the best thing I could advise you with my (very) limited knowledge about this process is to post your concerns at WT:ACC and go from there. That talk page is kind of a desert, I now notice, with the last comment posted in August, but it does have 1,000+ page watchers, so someone should see it promptly enough, I'd imagine. Good luck! El_C 13:10, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

I'll give it a shot, thanks for responding. Does it happen to know an admin familiar with the issue? 2A02:85F:F06F:9101:5CE5:BC0:E843:BC9A (talk) 15:52, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

can you (or a tp watcher) revdel please

I was replying to you on the arb noticeboard talk page and didn't notice I wasn't logged in, could someone get rid of the ip record [7], I emailed oversight as well. Thanks! ansh.666 00:18, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Sure np.  Done. El_C 00:25, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! ansh.666 00:26, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

ITN/ethnocentrism

Saw this comment, and was wondering what else there was to this story that occurred after LaserLegs was banned. Vanamonde (Talk) 04:36, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

These kind of blind items drive me crazy. I'm so out-of-the-loop. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 09:19, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

You two know about as much as I do. I remember thinking at the time: wtf is going on? Did the awesome admin Laser brain (last edit 2021) turn far-right provocateur? But, no, different person(z)! Brain thinks better than legs? Who'd-a-thunk-it! Fact is, I'm usually only around ITN is when Gerda asks me that an approved RD that's about to go stale be  Posted.

But I did notice recently in the (Israeli) news that Brazil barely got away from another term of fascist-adjacent, Amazon-ruining (the good Amazon, the forest) regime. I then added the results of that election to ITN. And I still fucked it up a bit (Stephen helped). I really had no idea ITN had become such a free-for-all cesspit. But I'm sure Stephen had felt that rather acutely, presumably, leading to his now-infamous self-destruction. So, the short of it: you're asking the wrong person(z) about any of this! El_C 15:01, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Please edit the National Anthem of Hong Kong

"March of the Volunteers" is not the national anthem of Hong Kong from 1997.

Basic Law and the Law of Hong Kong didn‘t define what song will be the national anthem of Hong Kong from 1997 as Hong Kong is running the “one country two system” rule. This has not be change even China make an amendment to the Annex III of the Basic Law. It only require Hongkonger respect to the National Anthem of People Republic of China, there are no define "March of the Volunteers" will become or is the national anthem of Hong Kong.

Thus, until now, there do not have any offical national anthem of Hong Kong. Please change it back to the correct description — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.38.166.22 (talk) 15:52, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

I'm the protecting admin, I'm not allowed to edit it per WP:INVOLVED. You've already posted on the talk page @Talk:National anthem of Hong Kong#Semi-protected edit request on 15 November 2022, so please be patient. El_C 15:58, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

you protecting the page which using the CCP version. are you a supporter to CCP who supporitng the gencide and centralized-camp in Xin Jiang? 82.38.166.22 (talk) 16:09, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

I protected the page on the version in which I encountered it, per m:Wrong version; accidentally, also at the same time (to the minute) as the previous admin did ([8][9]). If I were a supporter of the CCP, would I have used the protection summary that states: unrelenting CCP agitation? Think about it. El_C 16:16, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

BTW, IP, I was instrumental in setting up Wikipedia:General sanctions/Uyghur genocide and had been the most active admin in that area, so I resent the unfounded, and just plain false, accusation. El_C 17:04, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Notice of Dispute resolution noticeboard discussion

This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution.

Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you!

Styx & Stones (talk) 19:02, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Styx & Stones, I'm the protecting admin, it would not be appropriate for me to participate in the content dispute, of which I am uninvolved, anyway. El_C 19:39, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Noa Tishby

After I make 500 edits am I allowed to edit Noa Tishby's page? Also please advise what wording to use for someone who accepts the Occupation, Subjugation, and Oppression of the Palestinian Peoples Cheers Robtin.Goodfellow (talk) 07:27, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

The WP:500-30 tenure refers to a minimum of 500 edits and 30 days, but since you've been here for several months, then, yes. Still, make sure to not WP:GAME the edit count to reach it, or it'll likely just be removed for cause. As well, I'll stress again that WP:BLP is a pivotal policy, so stating in 'wikivoice' (i.e. declaretively) that she, a living person, actively supports Israeli Apartheid, is a clear violation of that policy. Her pro-Israeli position would need to be expressed in a manner representative of both sides of the dispute between Israelis and Palestinians. El_C 07:40, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

So it is the belief of Wikipedia Administrators that the occupiers and the occupied are equal? Could I write something like "Noa Tishby supports the current Zionist Regime, which every human rights organization not directly funded by the Israeli Gov't has classified as an Apartheid Regime (Amenesty International, HRW, B'tselem)..." And then re-add my supporting documentation? Cheers Robtin.Goodfellow (talk) 07:44, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

There is no such position among administrators, but it isn't about them. Rather, the two opposing sides of editors (and some in the middle) are the ones who decide about a given page's content. For example, calling the Israeli gov't a Zionist Regime will not stick, even with sources that support that descriptor. Because both sides have sources that support their respective positions. Thus, some sort of compromise based on Wikipedia:Independent sources usually ends up happening organically. El_C 07:56, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

There are legitimate sources justifying Apartheid? Cheers Robtin.Goodfellow (talk) 08:00, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

There are sources that support the Apartheid descriptor and ones that dispute it; the legitimacy of either is, well, disputed. El_C 08:03, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

The only sources that dispute Apartheid are funded by Israel. Cheers Robtin.Goodfellow (talk) 08:07, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Ok, what if I cited: https://www.instagram.com/p/CPoLkLdJCO9/?hl=en and stated Noa Tishby is a self-described Zionist? Cheers Robtin.Goodfellow (talk) 08:23, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

I think it's a novel view to contend that all sources who dispute the Apartheid descriptor are funded by Israel (i.e. in all instances). El_C 08:34, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Sure, that tracks. Though, most Israelis who are not Arabs or Orthodox Jews view themselves as Zionists, so it isn't controversial. El_C 08:34, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

November corner

November songs

celebrating GW60 - carrying Psalm 53 over from October -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:15, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

 Done. You had me at blurry cat. El_C 14:32, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Very well said. The cold never bothered me anyway... Begoon 12:27, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, as always, bro. You know me, c^limbing the branches of TREE(3). El_C 17:01, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

thank you! - I admire the climb - Psalm 57 please - 3 concerts can now be found together: a Ukrainian chamber choir, my cellist and composer friend's 60th birthday music (with a world premiere and that overview about his career), and Bach's ultimate statement about life and death --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:50, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

You say that - but here's a question for you - when you drink a random glass of water what are the chances that at least one one of the molecules you just drank were passed by Genghis Khan at some point? Eh? Begoon 14:53, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

For sure. 57  Done. And thanks, I love trees! To that:

Nonno, didn't you love trees as much as I love trees? I'm sure you must have. You must have walked up beyond Canè or up Gran Viso and gone through thinning trees until the last few remain stormed in late spring by white horses. Look, this is a matter of meditation, of meditation where time stands still and whole worlds can be sucked in or out of white and black holes! This is what history is, not the batter of commerce, not the mass murder of innocents by imbeciles, not the constraint of hope by injunction. Trees turn into people and people turn into trees, as surely as a sleeping man in his troubles becomes a cockroach. Haven't you seen high spruce bent slightly in the wind in the final meadows near the tree-line, how they sway and soak into bone and skin, how they moan and dance into blood and heart, how the bole is like a tower of blood and bone is meshed into the memory of bark. Dear heart, we destroy trees at our own peril. Or can I describe for you a circle of sycamores in St. James's Park: how their great bowl of air swirls and dances, how their always-smaller-becoming arms and branches capillary themselves in the fortunate air. Here between the halls of a parliament and a banal regal house we can squeeze out a free space for breath! Or in the old oaks and blackthorn of Hyde Park, or a single lost tree beside the Thames. Or the superb deciduous woodlands on the borders of Easter Sutherland and Easter Ross, or the spring festival in Glen Lyon. I once stood up through the roof of a car moving slowly through stands of old larch in West Lothian. I once was mesmerised by a single white-thorn at a junction of the Ochill Hills. I once was unable to leave sight of a single stately holm oak not far from Stroud until my friends half-dragged me silent away. And I'm talking now just of the trees of one island! Think of the trees in the Alps. Or those trees by the railway in Satyajit Ray, in Tagore, or the flayed riverrine memory of Ritwik Ghatak and others in places we've never been able to go. One time, Nonno, I lived three years in an island without trees! And it was beautiful! An island and a moorland and a bandaged sun! Always a bandaged sun! And a moorland made from decayed trees, a shepherd's cloak of peat laid on a scoured ancient rock, across the scar-line of mountains, on schists cooled from the heat of magmas on little protuberances amid the rocking seas. Our history, a seat beneath a bandaged sun: from galaxy to gaeltacht, from binary code to baita, veins and capillaries mapped in the skies, models of life in the code of a leaf, the colours of butterflies' wings more complex than even our eyes. That is why, Nonno. That is why it all matters: your being born in the mountains and then your leaving the mountains and your life in a city, with all the global messinesses in between. If I write these things in both joy and despair, it may be because I've not eaten enough these days, months, please forgive me. --Stephen Watts from his long poem published across two volumes, Mountain Language and Journey Across Breath (2009), addressed to his grandfather, who was born in a small mountain village in northern Italy and who died 30 years before he was born.

Yours treely, El_C 16:21, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Tree!

vacation pics, trees included - Psalm 59 please --Gerda Arendt (talk) 03:40, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

59  Done. Nice (tree!), I hope you had a relaxing time. El_C 00:48, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

more pics, squirrel, thanks for the Psalm, next will Psalm 60, Hebrew done by JohnThorne already. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:15, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Nice, I got assistance! Cool squirrel bwo! El_C 07:20, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Good that the assistance arrived before you blocked them ;) - Thanksgiving in the U.S. - Bach said it in music for peace --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:48, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Good gotcha. Peace. El_C 17:27, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Remember I wanted to write about the Misa Sine Nomine (Schidlowsky). Begun. Can you perhaps find where the beginning comes from. Or any of the three other texts? Lied and "Ich komme" sound like German to me, but one author is a painter, and the other Russian. I'm just guessing that the beginning is Hebrew, and also the two last movements. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:38, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm not really up for that. Not in the headspace. I am beat. El_C 14:17, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

what's "headspace", please? perhaps then I'd understand "beat". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:02, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Beat It On Down the Line *** Headspace: (informal) One's mental state. Beat, meaning overworked, under rested. El_C 16:30, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

understand, wish you more rest --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:44, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Story time

Finished that last series. Solid effort, but still nothing special, although the description of driving a combine harvester through a hoard of zombies was amusing. Just started FantasticLand: A Novel, which is Lord of the Flies meets World War Z. It's set in an adjustment park isolated by flooding after a hurricane. So far so good, a lot better than the Slow Burn books, although still not great. The audiobook production is also excellent. It's written as a series of interviews with survivors, and the style is a great match of the audiobook format. There may also be enough real reviews to make it notable, so maybe I'll throw a quick article together at some point. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:43, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Still not great? Well, that's... not great. As for me, ordered The High King's Tomb (book 3 of 4) a few days ago, so hopefully, it'll get here soon. As for spooky news, I liked Smile (2022 film), which I recommend, but its imagery is not nearly as disturbing as that of The SMILE Tapes (snip), which has hardcore zoombies. El_C 03:45, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Breaking news: 4T is back! Block trial; she bought a house. El_C 00:37, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Finally, today, got The High King's Tomb! Why does it take so long? El_C 01:44, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

That's a benefit of audiobooks. They're pretty much instant. I finished FantasticLand, and I actually liked it quite a bit. The audiobook format did a lot of heavy lifting for it, but it was definitely a good time. I just started a book series that's so shitty I can't remember what it's called, but it's included with my audible subscription and I need to save up some credits to start a good series.

I'm getting ready to spend another 12 hours outside waiting for a deer to walk by, and now it's actually cold, so I get to mix some suffering in with the boredom. Still archery season, so I get to hope a deer walks up nice and close. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 02:13, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

The Deer Hunter? It's okay, while I waited, I read Sex War One, which I don't know why they titled it that in the English print. It actually translates into Battle of the Sexes, including in the English notations on the Hebrew print's inner sleeve. Anyway, it was really bad. Also reread Patricia A. McKillip's The Riddle-Master of Hed (book 1 of 3), and am considering making the Riddle-Master trilogy my next series, as I like the lore and the world building. But there's seven books in the Green Rider series, so if I stick with it (likely), it'll be a while. Aim! El_C 02:33, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

Sirsi, Karnataka

Thanks Inedits (talk) 20:13, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

For sure. Glad I could help. El_C 20:25, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Cross-wiki abuse and LTA 米記123 new sock

Special:Contributions/Forever-Young-At-Heart.--MCC214#ex umbra in solem 17:14, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Looks like they were globally locked, MCC214. El_C 01:56, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you User:El C for upgrading the protection of List of highest-grossing Punjabi films. Some new admin User:TeaDrinker came out of no where and started accusing me of Sockpuppeting without any evidence only based on his speculations. Though I have already left a msg on his talk page after his accusation. I am doing my best since the partial block. Just wanted to bring this to your notice. Thanks again and Regards, — Preceding unsigned comment added by SunnyKambojLive (talk • contribs)

Hello again, SunnyKambojLive. Honestly, if you want me to look at something, you need to do me the courtesy of linking to the WP:DIFFs in question (all of them, including TeaDrinker's notice to you). I'm sorry, but just can't spare the time to do that leg work for you. But to correct you, TeaDrinker isn't a new admin — they became one in 2007 (2 years after myself). Thanks. El_C 16:54, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Hello User: El C, By new admin, I meant new on the page in question. I left message on User:TeaDrinker's talkpage and he understood the situation and responded well.

As you suggested, I am adding diffs. Some User:Wjsbb made these changes [10] (Also, See his edit summary). I don't know if this user is new or old as it has now been blocked.

But, User:TeaDrinker suspected it to be my sockpuppet and blocked it. [11] (See his edit summary). I am afraid some innocent guy has been blocked by mistake and out of confusion.

The two reasons I thought of reaching you User:El C is that - first, after these latest changes, you updated the protection. I thank you for this as I was demanding it from long. Second, I was also afraid that changes to the page by User:Wjsbb and the speculation for it being related to me can cause me unwanted trouble.

Thanks & Regards,

SunnyKambojLive (talk) 17:32, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, well, that account looks suspect; innocent, not so much. I mean, to suddenly have a new user come around to make edits that favour your position, with this coinciding with your block from the page in question — how would an objective observer not suspect that that is your sock? Whether TeaDrinker intends on taking this further (i.e. at WP:SPI), that I don't know. El_C 18:58, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

My position/opinion has changed after the discussions 2 weeks back. [12] And, it is only me who finally suggested how to combine the films from both sides in a single article.

And, every 5th to 6th person in the world is an Indian and can have the thoughts that the suspected account has. But that does not make 17.7% world population to be me. Neither I have this much time, nor am I stupid to do such a thing to cause myself/my account any unwanted trouble. This is clearly a trap but I will not fall into this, whoever is doing this. Or, even if it's all a confusion.

SunnyKambojLive (talk) 08:03, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

No, those numbers wouldn't trend that way, because editing Wikipedia, unlike reading it, is quite niche, and this is but one article among +6 million. So the suspicion is sound. Now, whether it's instead a Joe Job or some weird happenstance or whatever — who knows. If there is an WP:SPI filed, and a WP:CHECKUSER is launched, then its technical data might help determine if it's  Confirmed,  Likely,  Possible,  Unrelated, whichever. And if an SPI isn't filed, than I suppose the matter would then become moot. HTH. El_C 09:00, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Okay ... Thanks ... SunnyKambojLive (talk) 18:37, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Thanks [2]

Thanks for blocking user:More eminence Inedits (talk) 04:40, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Happy to help once again. El_C 09:01, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

General Q on transfer

ArnavSharma602 Hi there, I wanted to ask that if one is a autoconfirmed user on English wikipedia, does their settings apply to other languages as well ? And if yes, then which ones ? ArnavSharma602 (talk) 00:00, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

No, these user rights are specific to those projects and can only be gained locally. El_C 19:01, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

I need your suggestion

Sorry for wasting your time.

I specially edit and create articles about Karnataka's geographical locations, recently i removed Notable Persons list from Some article and I also wanted to remove from other major articles in karnataka state beacuse most of this list includes politician's and tv serial actors, other than birth on that place they did nothing to this cities , I removed after reading WP:NOTPAPER it mentions "Keeping articles to a reasonable size is important for Wikipedia's accessibility", But other user reverted my edits, and mentionied WP:LISTN , I read that topic but what I understand is its about creating stand alone list, for eg List of people from Bangalore, not like Sagara, Karnataka, Sirsi, Karnataka this cities have notable person section , I am confused now about should I keep this list on Main city article or remove it. What's your opinion about this ? , And thanks for reading my lengthy story Inedits (talk) 02:14, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

Not a waste of my time. In answer to your question: WP:LISTN doesn't seem to apply so much, except in so far that items in Notable person from should be verifiable, but that's a broader principle, anyway. Notable person from sections are, however, a universal (or near-universal) staple of city pages from all around the world. In some major cities, the list is so long, it is a standalone page all on its own. See, for example, New York City#People's standalone page, List of people from New York City, which is so lengthy, it has an alphabetized table of contents.

Birth and/or lengthy residency are usually the criteria for inclusion for these, rather than a more amorphic contributions to said city. The point is that you probably won't succeed in changing that practice just for cities in one region of the world. You'd need to get people on board with that site-wide (for worldwide). Which would require a much broader, more substantive discussion that I wouldn't recommend you initiate right now.

What to do: 1. If you see unsourced items in a Notable person from section/standalone, feel free to remove em; or, more softly, add {{cn}} to those items and if they're still unsourced after a little while (say, a week or two), then remove them. 2. If such a (verifiable) section is too long, create a standalone page for it and link to it, instead. 3. Beyond points 1+2, don't worry about Notable person from sections. Town and cities in India are some of the worst maintained pages of their kind on the project, so I encourage you to continue their clean up and expansion. HTH. El_C 18:58, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

Page protection

Greetings, you recently speedily replied to my request for a lock on the page Battle of Benadir, I've recently requested a lock on the almost identical page Battle of Barawa at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection/Increase as well. If you could take a look into it, it'd be appreciated. Thanks. Wareno (talk) 17:01, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

Already protected by administrator Favonian. El_C 19:02, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

ARCAs with very long names

Hello El_C. I noticed you opened a new ARCA (for quite good reasons) but chose a naming scheme that may not be the best. See this edit. Since the ARCA's title is going to be echoed throughout the report due to the ever-helpful templates, we will have a high 'noise level' in the request.

When opening an amendment request, I see that someone often uses a short and and informative name. For example this edit from November 2 which opens an ARCA called "Clarification request: Appeal restrictions as part of discretionary sanctions". For your own new requests, why not use shorter names like "Amendment request: Place AA2 articles under EC protection". And the same thing for ARBKURDS. EdJohnston (talk) 23:48, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

Because the original proposal at AN was for both AA2 and KURDS, I wanted to have both listed in a single request, as well. I tried a shorter title, but it didn't display right (WP:AA2, WP:KURDS shown in red links, other issues). You can read my complaint about the perennial problem that that impossible template represents at the amendment request and elsewhere (many elsewhere). El_C 00:22, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Unsure how this got fixed, but in my opinion somebody drastically improved the title! Now we have WP:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment#Amendment request: Community ECR request. If the motion passes, it will need a shortcut, so maybe something like WP:COMECR. EdJohnston (talk) 02:29, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

How to block someone

Kindly guide me to block someone. Sush150 (talk) 17:02, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

WP:BLOCK. El_C 17:28, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Template editor question

Hi El C, is it possible to give an editor permission to edit specific pages, such as specific templates for infoboxes used by a project? I don't think I'm quite skilled enough to get template editor approval, but there are several infoboxes used on aircraft articles that I have edited in the past that are template-protected now, and we have very few, if any, template editors within the WP:AIR project at this time. If that's not possible, could you consider approving me for template editor on a trial basis? I won't edit infoboxes and other protected templates outside the project's purview, and I will get a censenus on any changes likely to be controversial. (I am currently a page mover, and so, while the skill set is different, I do have experience with special permissions.) Thanks for whatever you decide is best. BilCat (talk) 02:55, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Hey. No, it's not possible to tailor it. It's a user right like WP:XC: once applied, it covers everything within its scope. I'd consider granting you the WP:TPE perm if you categorically promise to only use it on content templates — no technical ones, no modules, and subject to immediate revocation if this is violated. And also, to never, ever use it to gain an edge in content disputes.

First, though, I'd like to see the extent of that backlog, so why don't you link to a few (say, three or four) prominent examples alongside brief summaries...? That way I could get a sense of the general what, the overall frequency of, and so on. If I find it to have merit, then I suppose you'll fly WP:AIR, I'll fly WP:IAR. But if somehow it doesn't work out, no hard feelings, please!

Seeing that you already have the admin-unbundled WP:PAGEMOVER perm, not to mention that I've known you for all these years, I'm cautiously optimistic (that if your examples are good, we'll be good to go). Note, however, that I'm especially busy right now, so expect delays. Have a good Sunday. El_C 17:47, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your response and no worries on the delays. As far as a backlog, the only pending need is a Template-protected edit request at Template talk:Infobox aircraft engine#Template-protected edit request on 26 November 2022, which I initiated. I discussed it first at WT:AIR#Template:Infobox aircraft engine. This is the sort of change I would make, and would have done so without discussion, as the coding is already used on Template:Infobox aircraft type. I originally add the coding myself to that infobox in 2011 (wow!), as seen here and here, on the basis of discussions at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Aviation/Style guide/Layout (Aircraft). (I can't find the specific discussion at the moment.) Unfortunately, I neglected to add that coding to the aircraft engine infobox at that time, and didn't realize it wasn't there until some time in the last year or so when I tried to use it in an article! (We have at least 10,000-20,000 aircraft articles, but only a few hundred aircraft engine articles.)

Those are the types of changes I would make, along with any maintenance tweaks that might crop up. The frequency is extremely rare at the moment, but I would probably propose some minor additions to the WP:AIR infoboxes if I had the ability to implement them. There are also a slew of aircraft navboxes, most of which aren't template-protected, but this would give me the ability to edit those that are.

I absolutely "categorically promise to only use it on content templates — no technical ones, no modules, and subject to immediate revocation if this is violated. And also, to never, ever use it to gain an edge in content disputes." (Emphasis mine!) And I realize that any other admin who thinks I've misused the permissions could also revoke the permissions.

In using Page Mover permissions, I initially tried to monitor the requested moves page, but quickly figured out that wasn't my thing. I do occasionally see move requests discussions on article talk pages, and have moved a few after they closed if the close didn't have move permissions, by specific request on my talk page, and drafts of other users that need to be moved to mainspace. I would probably be willing to do that on an ad hoc basis with Template editing, if you thing it's a good idea, limited to either fixing obvious errors, or implementing consensus changes to an infobox or other content template that has been tested in a sandbox and approved by consensus somewhere. But that's not something I'd jump into immediately.

Thanks for reviewing my odd request, and for your willingness to help out. I realize if I prove to be incompetent in this area, per the "Peter Principle", that it's not a bad thing to admit it, and go back to not having the permissions. I know that's a big problem with some admins, and they are often slow to realize it. So if I need help to see it, just remind me of what I said!

Thanks again, and take care. BilCat (talk) 19:21, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Peter just called me, and said I'm not ready! See Template talk:Infobox aircraft engine#Template-protected edit request on 26 November 2022, where I was rightly reminded that I needed yet to do a test case first. And sure enough, I discovered there was an error, and quite possibly it was one I introduced 11 years ago! (That I'm not certain tells me I have a lot more to learn.) So yeah, I'm not ready, and may well never be. Request officially withdrawn. BilCat (talk) 08:40, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

No worries. Good to know one's own limits (I could use more of that!), and also good to break those limits. So perhaps in the not far-off future, then. Yours, El_C 10:07, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. BilCat (talk) 10:14, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

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Hello

I have a question ? Is it allowed to have "Quotations" on this article, Dobrica Ćosić, because another user says that it is not allowed, so he started an edit war. 93.138.37.156 (talk) 10:47, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Hello. The 3 revert rule is about reverting more than 3 times in 24 hours (to clarify), but that's not really the issue, IP. The issue is the combination of you edit warring and communicating poorly. First, you're asked about relevance, which you reply with a sort of figure-it-out-yourself non-answer: Read what is written in the sources and stop deleting them. But the WP:ONUS is on you to actually explain what is asked. Deferring that explanation is not an explanation; making your burden (to explain) somehow the other party's burden is, likewise, not an explanation.

Then, you're reverted again, and this time you're told rather than asked: this quote has no relevance for the article. Which you respond with another non-reply: just don't like it are not arguments. Read [bare url to WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT] — except, the other party questioned the relevance of the quote to what is currently being featured on that page. They didn't express anything resembling a like or dislike, so how does it make sense to label, and to diminish, their argument in that way?

Again, keep in mind that the onus is on you to explain when your addition is contested, and to do so on the article talk page, rather than through edit summaries attached to brute force edit warring. WP:ONUS, which is a shortcut to Wikipedia:Verifiability#Verifiability does not guarantee inclusion (emphasis added), says: The onus to achieve consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content — that's you, "seeking to include disputed content." Last time Talk:Dobrica Ćosić was used, by anyone, was 2018 btw. HTH. El_C 11:33, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

That. But I don't understand why a user who disagrees wouldn't start a conversation on the chat page, because he disputes it. What is written in the sources is written there and he deletes the sources. I think he should start a conversation on the page, because he deletes sources just because he doesn't like it. For example, under such "rules" then I can delete any sources on other articles that I don't like and tell whoever wants to return what I deleted to start a discussion page because I am right to delete sources, and you start the talk page if you want those sources back.93.138.37.156 (talk) 11:51, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

I'm just wondering if the "Quotations" section can be on that page, if it can then he deletes it for no reason. I think the best solution is for him to put other quotes that he likes.93.138.37.156 (talk) 11:58, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

IP, it's not complicated. They felt the quote you added was irrelevant to that article, at which point the onus is on you to go to article the talk page and explain why you believe it is relevant. Again, it's your burden to do so, to initiate that discussion, not the other party's. It's onus, not reverse-onus. El_C 11:59, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

What do you mean if the "Quotations" section can be on that page? It can be, it can also not be. The dispute is about whether it's WP:DUE or WP:UNDUE. Please don't try to find a loophole or otherwise somehow ruleslawyer around just dealing with the issue directly in a matter of fact way. El_C 12:04, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Now he broke 3 rules [[13]] he returned it 4 times. I think the best solution is for him to put his own quotes that he likes if the section "Quotations" is allowed. This is how his quotes in the sources say what he wrote and said. 93.138.37.156 (talk) 12:16, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

←Please don't try to find a loophole or otherwise somehow ruleslawyer around just dealing with the issue directly in a matter of fact way. El_C 12:22, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Unfortunately I'll have to go to editwar because it deletes trusted sources without saying why it's doing it and doesn't start a chat page. So then everyone can delete sources and do what they want on wikipedia and nobody can do anything to them, they can do what they want. Thanks for the answers though93.138.37.156 (talk) 12:33, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

If you'd rather go to editwar, and probably be blocked for it, instead of starting a discussion that explains why you consider that quote to be relevant to that bio — well, that's you're prerogative, I suppose. El_C 13:00, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Question

Hi El C, I provided an answer to your question -- Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 16:57, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Hey. Thank you for the detailed answer. What I said to Barkeep (in a similar question) about the public and private spheres might resonate for your answer, too. I'd also add that I hope you wouldn't shy from a public pushback (even if only publicly expressing a position critical of the WMF) for fear it might risk jeopardizing more productive private discourse. Because there's a slippery slope to watch for there, I'd challenge. Thanks again. El_C 17:33, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

2022 Supercars Championship

I noticed that this article was semi'd indefinitely per "Arbitration enforcement"; however I read the relevant ArbCom discussion and it said that protection wasn't authorized as a discretionary action, and indeed 2021 Supercars Championship (which was protected for the same reason) already had its protection lifted. Considering that apparently the article wasn't supposed to be protected in the first place, let alone indefinitely, would it be fine to lift the protection, or would that not be advisable at this time? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:33, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Unprotected. Yeah, that's my bad with those. If you see any other Motorsports stragglers that got overlooked, please drop me a line again. Cheers! El_C 12:26, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

December music

Winter but just in a single tree

December songs

happy new year

Sheeplion sentry

Nice ice tree

Today, we sang Wachet auf, ruft uns die Stimme twice, and Psalm 24, - after a short trip to Paris before with great opera and symphony, - enjoy! - Next: Psalm 63. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:36, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Seasons pre-greetings! ←TREE(3) greetings, even! El_C 12:30, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the treetings! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:32, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Seasons Treetings! 63  Done. El_C 18:32, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! - Today, we sing for a Marian feast, I learned that Yvonne Ciannella died, the soprano who impressed me in my first night at the opera, and as she died in March, sadly no Main page reverence is possible, - at least she had a good DYK, at a time when opera singers were considered interesting. I'm proud today that Christiane Hörbiger made it to that corner, and happy that we celebrate the birthday of Jean Sibelius again. - I heard an excellent concert yesterday, by Tenebrae, and a short excerpt of them singing "Deo gracias" is also linked from my talk. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:16, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Nice, that's a lot of musik tidings. Also, heard you were personally involved in thwarting an old Nazi prince weirdo from taking over the country, so good stuff! Also also, while looking for a new kitty, I noticed "Sheeplion sentry" (pictured). Crazy species! As well, while scrolling, I noticed your "Winter but just in a single tree" (pictured), which is a great pic. And also a TREE(3)! Best, El_C 17:41, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Today was a day rich in music, with two new pictures, and also rich in WP:QAI contributions on the Main page: the TFA, 2 DYK and 2 RD with members as principal editors. The church pictured there (not by me, nice snow dust and tall evergreen tree) comes with memories, detailed on my talk. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:59, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

ps: Psalm 64 please whenever it's convenient --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:00, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Wow, indeed a lot, but no sheeplion (one day). 64  Done. El_C 13:04, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Latest pics, with an opera discovery and some snow on trees! Today my talk has a DYK that was planned for 22 November, among the recent deaths the author of Duck, Death and the Tulip, and now a choir pic of "our" concert last Sunday, likely to become next year's lead image. Enjoy. - A free week for you, because Psalm 65 has Hebrew already, by JohnThorne. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:22, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Nice ice tree! JohnThorne whose community ban I implemented — I remember (now!). ;) El_C 05:34, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

enjoy the season, dreaming of peace! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:29, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Which is the best dream. Merry Christmas! 🎅 El_C 21:44, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

yes - today, pictured, the soprano of our choral concert of the year born in Jerusalem. More in the context: User talk:Gerda Arendt#DYK for Talia Or, in case of interest. - Enjoy the season! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:45, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Good stuff! But it's not 2023.... yet. El_C 08:46, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

I could move ot to Images for 2023, for a day, but am lazy. I made the calendar with all images from 2022, and you and I picked the same for December ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:24, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Getting closer with Psalm 66: make a joyful noise unto the Lord! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:39, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Don't mind if I do (try)! Sorry, is that a request? El_C 18:42, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

whenever it's convenient - wish you a new year with joyful noise! --

Thanks, and to you. But no sig, no requests! El_C 19:02, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

sorry about no sig, better? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:06, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Jllll! El_C 19:18, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

You've been visited by the Warwick Davis of having a new TV show!

Finally a new show that isn't pure trash. It doesn't take itself too seriously, stuff actually happens, moves quickly, chuckle-worthy dialog (although sometimes it's a bit too campy), and Warwick Davis! It also has a diverse cast without seeming forced out performative like Bored of the Rings. It's not amazing, but solidly entertaining. And so far there's only one stupid shoulder strap/pauldron and one stupid melee weapon. Only thing it's missing is Val Kilmer. If you haven't checked it out yet, I endorse it. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 23:30, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

A bit. The ghost of Warwick Davis past, even! Yeah, it's been pretty nice, even if limited. And he's great, exceptional depth even when campy. Felt a bit uneasy of having an entire species of little persons tbh — the way it looked with tens of them cast... I dunno, border-line exploitative? But at least the show isn't as insufferable as The Rings of Bezos. Quite the contrary, as mentioned, it's pretty fun-in-the-black-sun. Though, as also mentioned, limited wrt to immersion, especially world-building scale — and I'm not just talking about breaking through the cave walls somehow to arrive at the <spoilers> (they went in opposite directions!). Also, a super-soul, sub-magic Empress implies an empire — so maybe Lucas is working on having the The Empire Re-striking Back, but this time its dominion maintained by love-magic? Either way, I'll be tuning in next week. El_C 17:30, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

I'm not too bothered by the little people civilization, as it's a pretty common "fantasy race." I feel it might be a better way to handle it than using camera tricks with other actors as all of the Tolkien adaptations have. There's probably a whole body of academic work on the subject. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:07, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Not bothered so much as a bit of a hmm. I also thought Jackson did a good job with the Hobbits. BTW Dragon Age: Absolution was released today — Netflix, so there's Hebrew subs in the subpack (unlike in Hungarian Willow!). I'm, like, 10-min in, so we'll see how it glows. As a red-blooded un-American, I of approve of lesbian leads. Fond memories of Origins and II and Inquisition — not sure if you played any/all. Apparently, no. 4, Dreadwolf, has been in development since... 2018. Well, at least they didn't release it broken, like 90 percent of all AAA games these days. (Maybe decompile the shaders first rather than on-the-fly in your Unreal Engine 4 DS thingie?) Blg! El_C 20:11, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

I played all three, and enjoyed them. Inquisition was a bit odd with the open world single player MMO thing, but still fun. I don't know if I'll watch the show because my wife normally isn't down for animated shows like that, despite her love of comedy animation.

I've been playing a solidly not AAA game, Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord, which I may have mentioned. My wife, who I paid a lot for, had twins! And my younger brother is being held prisoner by the Battanians. That's fine though, because I have the king of Battania in my dungeon, along with a dozen of his lords. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:38, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Nice!(?) What graphics settings are you running it at (in your old ass machine that makes mine seem new)? Is the game optimized okay? From what I seen, it looks pretty dope. El_C 00:36, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

I play it on my ps5, so I think it's max settings. I played the original Mount & Blade on a toaster, so I imagine it's reasonably well optimized. Battles will just have fewer people on screen, and more waves of reinforcements. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 02:16, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Right, I forget what decade I'm in sometime. You don't have to worry about shaders and so on with a console monolith, but I haven't owned a controller since the N64. Auto-aim is for the weak! Recently, NoPixel banned controllers (well, there is a whitelist for special needs, but otherwise) — good stuff, Koil! Anyway, I stopped buying games on release years ago. Even when it isn't a shitty port, game companies no longer give a fuck that their game actually function on release. You'll see, next, we'll have to pay for a shader-decompiler DLC. ;) I remember what a revelation mouse and keyboard were on Counter-Strike beta 3. I had a 32mb GPU back then. Today, I have an 11 million mb GPU, which does great, but only if the game is actually meant to run. Apropos NoPixel, one exception to that was Red Dead Redemption 2. I got it on release. And it looked amazing, it ran amazing, it was amazing. But that's Rockstar Games, who are really in a league of their own, at least for their big flagships. El_C 14:41, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

I bought Bannerlord at release because I was an early supporter of the original, and knew I'd like to be addicted to it ASAP. I do miss my PC gaming, but I haven't turned my PC on in a few years now. Too busy to spend 60 hours a week playing dwarf fortress.

In other news, it's cold out and I have an intermittent uncontrollable shiver. Might be time to head inside soon. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:55, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

The Deer Hunter outside right now? Just use an AWP from your window, caveman! El_C 14:58, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

No rifle hunting in my state, so no dice on that. I did just buy a new gun, which isn't legally a firearm because it's a muzzleloader. That's rifled, but doesn't count as a rifle. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:02, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Well, it's official, you're a pirate now! El_C 15:05, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

After I got back from hunting I figured it was time to continue my campaign against Battania in Bannerlord. Returning to my city to offload my spoils I figured I'd chat with my wife. Turns out, she doesn't like me. -1 relation. :( Maybe that's why she hasn't gotten pregnant recently. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 23:33, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

You are a terrible heroin! El_C 00:15, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Ygm, btw. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:36, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

So the first season is done, and it was a perfectly ok tv show. Some of it was silly, but it was refreshing to see something that wasn't too try hard. More gay and bisexual characters in a Disney thing, too! ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 02:25, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Problems

Please take a look at this thread. Sloppyjoes7 is already Tbanned in another topic area, but there seem to be serious CIR issues that might indicate the need for an AP2 Tban. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 02:01, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

No thanks! Also, I don't have a firm recollection of this person, but it seems to be fairly clear-cut WP:CIR (American conservative talking points WP:SPA variety, with plenty of WP:SOAP). Looking back at the ANI TBAN proposal from April, as my closing states: it had "unanimous or near-unanimous support." So, it was pretty cut and dry. Yet, they claimed the sanction was "utterly unfounded," somehow, though never went on to explain how or why — admittedly, it'd be challenging, rhetorically, since in reality, the continuum is minority→majority→unanimity (i.e. a proposal cannot get approval that goes beyond unanimous, by definition, it's the max).

That ("utterly unfounded" bit) was from their unblock request, after they had violated the afroementioned WP:GENSEX TBAN, presumably never having clicked on WP:BROADLY, maybe not even WP:TBAN. They also mentioned in that unblock request that "[they] simply haven't gone through the process to appeal [the TBAN] because [they] haven't had time." Them expecting to succeed in appealing a sanction that was passed unanimously is... well, ambitious.

But it's whatever. A WP:CBAN, or another TBAN, if I were you, I'd offer the two choices at a new ANI proposal (feel free to link my reply here). A cursory glance shows that they did in fact keep to their GENSEX TBAN after the block. They didn't even mention gender when praising/normalizing Matt Walsh, one of the most prominent transphobes of our age, so there is that. The point is that I'm not gonna do anything singlehandedly, mostly because having to deal with two serious WP:AP2 thingies in 2 days (thingie 1) is a bit rich for my palate. HTH. El_C 17:24, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank you

I wanted to thank you for realizing and addressing your mistake on AE with regards to Olympian.[14] I was on AE and was confused by your first response to Olympian and decided to dig into and put forth the facts about the situation[15], considering I was given a temporary topic ban for misrepresentations more extreme than Dallavid was putting forward against Olympian, and included entirely false claims against me which I'd also refuted but went missed, was confused with everything else, or ignored.

My situation as this appeal shows, including the imposing admin's statement, was such that the imposing admin was and still is confused on what happened to the point they're stating things the accuser did and putting that on me, among other evident confusion.[16][17][18]. I didn't want Olympian to have a similar decision made against them because of misunderstandings on what happened. I can understand that these situations can get convoluted and it's hardly easy to fully grasp them. Thanks! Saucysalsa30 (talk) 03:02, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Saucysalsa30, here's the reality: yours is a bad appeal. It's too long, with text to diff ratio being too skewed. It appears too carelessly put together, like linking internal links externally — for example, the troll stuff makes it seems like you have actual diff evidence for that, but instead, it's just items (1, 2) that any reviewer of a board as specialized as AE would already be familiar with. Thus, a presentation that's too convoluted and carelessly put together will push away outside reviewers. As soon I seen that troll stuff in that last paragraph of your appeal, I pretty much already decided I wasn't gonna review it further, for that reason, but also because of its overall WP:NOTTHEM tone, a maxim that your appeal navigates rather poorly.

A pivotal problem with your appeal is that it expects an outside reviewer to already be familiar with the case in question (or review a very lengthy AE report, where you write at great length). When it comes to appeals I know nothing about, if evidence and summaries are not spoon-fed to me in a concise and coherently-organized form, I usually just don't bother. And I'd wager that most are like me, usually prioritizing their WP:VOLUNTEER time to those that do put that care and attention. Anyway, no need to reply, but at least now you know how it actually works. HTH. El_C 12:44, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

@El C I appreciate the knowledge about this esoteric space. My statement was on the original AE report which I linked, so I didn't feel a need to copy all of the same diffs again. I know now that may be necessary for the future. Considering the original report almost entirely comprised misrepresentations and flat-out falsities, it does take more effort to address things that are false than otherwise but I get your point.

I wasn't joking about the trolling. Blatant personal attacks, including one of those I noted in my first statement on the original AE report, "Saucysalsa30 has a reputation as a remarkably extreme pro-Iraqi Ba'th Party partisan editor" [19], and this is one example among many such as the absurd extreme of accusing me of real-life off-wiki threats[20], are insulting and common for the editor's interactions with me. Either such attacks are legitimately poor conduct by this editor or trolling, and in such cases when editors behave in this manner, it is often actioned by admins.

What was proven since the original AE report is that it was based on misrepresentations and false accusations, like Dallavid's accusations against @Olympian in whose case I helped you to understand the situation better when it was looking like a sanction would happen against them[21], and after the AE report as proven with diffs that the imposing admin misinterpreted the matter to such a degree that they assigned the accuser's actions as me having done them and cast aspersions, which is not right.

Since you mention it, an admin (I don't want to call out names without you asking) actually did some outside review and asked me questions about it including accusations on IRC and after I addressed it, they concluded it was a "miserable" situation and a "mess" among other unsupportive description of the sanction. It's more than clear by this point that the sanction was made on a misinterpreted basis and I'm happy with the knowledge that the imposing admin Acroterion confirmed this unintentionally, and that an outside admin does not support action taken. That the issue about this is with the appeal's structure and what it should contain relative to the original report is good news too.

Given your knowledge sharing, may I request withdrawing the request after making a closing comment? Saucysalsa30 (talk) 13:33, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Saucysalsa30, I'll be blunt: you didn't help me with Olympian's case. They pinged me about something I overlooked, which I then corrected. What you seemingly did, rather, was thank me for that correction, then tried to piggyback your own appeal as some kind of parallel. Which I suspect is not the case, but regardless, you're still doing the thing which I cautioned you against above — a skewed text to diff ratio. You're navigating evidence to summary coherence and organization poorly. Actual real-life off-wiki threats should be forwarded to ArbCom or T&S, but the diff you provided is of a lengthy WP:TEXTWALL. A brief quote of the purported threat from that diff is what's needed with evidence like that. So, still too raw and unrefined, still too lengthy on both the front and back ends. In answer to your question, if you wish for me to close your appeal as withdrawn, I can do that for you. Please confirm. El_C 13:55, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

@El C Sorry, I missed this earlier. To be fair, I'm not making an AE appeal here, and I provided diffs for everything needing one. Regarding TheTimesAreAChanging's WP:TEXTWALL, here's the relevant quote. "And that's before we get into the "fan mail" that I am quite certain Saucysalsa30 sent me IRL during the height of our previous dispute in 2021, and which I can email to anyone who is interested. Dated March 15, 2021, two ... and sent from North Carolina to my home address in Illinois, it reads (in all caps): "YOU REALLY NEED TO BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT THE EDITS YOU MAKE ON WIKIPEDIA. OK??????"

The dispute they refer to happened in January 2021, not in mid-March, and which EvergreenFir shut down, telling TheTimes to "stop the bullshit"[22][23]. I only had one edit adding anything to an article in March 2021[24]. The reason for the flippant falsehood regarding dates is not clear. Yes, Barkeep49 did take it up with ArbCom[25][26][27] Barkeep49 [28] and given the extreme of this accusation and TheTimes' claim of having private evidence, deleted the whole ANI section[29]. ArbCom refused to consider TheTimes' accusation according to Barkeep[30]. Out of curiosity why was nothing done about a user making a blatantly false accusation against me that I made real-life threats, which is accusing me of what is a crime in many/most US states?

I'm sorry to say that your suspicion is incorrect and the extent of mispresentations and blatant falsities (all proven as such in the original AE report, so I won't be copy-pasting here) from TheTimesAreAChanging were far worse than the simple misrepresentation Dallavid was making regarding Olympian. For what it's worth, Olympian did thank me for my comment clearing up Dallavid's accusations.[31] Thanks again for actually taking a second look at their case and more importantly owning up to and fixing your misunderstanding. There is another who could learn from you[32].

My regards to DragonflySixtyseven too for taking the time for outside review on Nov 27 over IRC regarding the original AE report against me, which I mentioned in my last reply. I know each admin may have different perspectives and judgements in these matters. DF isn't involved in AEs, but apparently would not have decided as Acro did.

"I can do that for you. Please confirm"

Yes, confirming. It doesn't look like any other admins are going to bother looking at it given your comments here, that an uninvolved admin considered the situation/tban a "mess", and that there's only a small number of admins who appear active on AE. Saucysalsa30 (talk) 03:21, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Saucysalsa30, again, I'm just explaining to you how things work in practice, from the benefit of my experience as a sanctioning admin who had faced several tens of appeals — maybe one or two of these succeeded (those that I opposed, at least, which were the vast majority, so omitting the ones where I lifted my own sanction). So I don't need all this background. I'm unlikely to look into the particulars of this case. You should know, though, that exceeding the word limit by so much, as you did in the original complaint (the limit is 500, you're close to 3,000), in itself, could be cause for sanctions, and it greatly hindered your defense. Also, in future, please don't try to WP:GAME the system with collapsed texts. Those are covered in the word count. (You're not the first nor likely the last user whom I warned against attempting to circumvent the word limit in that way btw).

Sure np, I'll close your appeal as withdrawn. But one final note concerning your doesn't look like any other admins are going to bother looking at it — that may well be so (though still far from being a given). I've seen especially poor appeals that no one commented on except for the appellant and the sanctioning admin (it happened to me multiple times) to the point that the appeal just got auto-archived after like a month or so. As noted, the less coherent and cohesive an appeal is, the less chance outside reviewers are gonna bother. But it also ebbs and flows unpredictably. Some appeals sit untouched for weeks until suddenly a bunch of folks show up to comment on em. Ultimately, few appeals succeed overall. Because experienced editors might be better at writing good appeals, but they face a high bar and burden. Whereas inexperienced ones generally just don't know how to write good appeals. Often, they do what you did: throw too much material at reviewers. So there you go, free knowledge of Wikipedia arcana from me to you. El_C 04:20, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

@El C Question for clarification: My understanding, and from what I've seen, was that each statement by a user in response to others is taken separately for word count. From here, I put my opening statement, dated 19:30, 30 October 2022, into the provided word count tool and it was exactly 500 (signature and date not included). Do you mean all statements by a single user, original and follow-ups, combined must not be more than 500? Also, yes, the collapsed follow-up was probably unnecessary since it was addressing off-topic accusations and false statements.

Thanks for the knowledge sharing. I've seen sections get archived after about 10 days of inactivity. Does the bot have a variable schedule or are there factors other than inactivity that determine after how long it archives? Saucysalsa30 (talk) 20:13, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Saucysalsa30, 500 total, but no one would really care if you were to add even another 500. It's when it gets more to the thousands of words, that's when it'll start to be seen as a problem. But at least you used green {{collapse top}} instead of yellow {{hat}} that's used for closing reports on that board — a while back, several folks began using the latter, which got rather visually jarring (i.e. hatted comments alongside or within hatted closes). Generally, if one wishes to remove stuff from their own section to make way for something else, it'd be sorta expected that a diff or diffs of the removal be noted after the change is made. But hardly anyone bothers doing it, or on the enforcement level, cares if they do. Unless something specific is removed which was directly replied to, then it gets more problematic (but still very much doable). HTH. El_C 15:15, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks @El C, all of this is good to know although the caveats make it somewhat ambiguous. This is outside of my area of expertise and there's likely people at or associated with WMF responsible for creating and improving processes, but given all the complexities and issues with processes, policies, or simpler things like formatting, I feel like there's room for improvement. If I have ideas, I'll submit to the Village Pump. Saucysalsa30 (talk) 03:55, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Sure np. But I'd suggest for you to work on understanding the system better before submitting major improvements. Especially on a day like today, when many months worth of suggestions for improvements had reached a milestone. Also, the WMF knows even less about these processes and procedures than you do. El_C 04:33, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

New account

Hi ElC, hope you're doing well. Could you take a look at the WP:NOTHERE user TurkicEtymology (talk · contribs)? They were reported for edit-warring but for some reason not blocked yet. They breached however many guidelines/policies already and clearly aren't here to build an encyclopedia. In Urfa alone, I think they made like 7 reverts in 24 hours. Apparently they're also stalking me in other articles. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 09:05, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

You have removed pages worth of sourced anti-Azeri content on pages about Armenia, and you're bashing me for removing irrelevant content? Main pages exist for a reason. Concision is a thing. TurkicEtymology (talk) 09:09, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

Blocked indefinitely. El_C 15:18, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

Translated article

Hi El C! Do you know if I have to put some template on the article to specify that it was translated from another wiki?[33] On the Italian Wikipedia we have this rule. Thank you! Mhorg (talk) 11:49, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

Hello. No, you don't have to use a template, but you do have to satisfy the attribution requirements — which you did meet in the above diff. See WP:TFOLWP for the documentation. HTH. El_C 15:26, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

Contentious topics procedure adopted

You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to updates on the Arbitration Committee's discretionary sanctions review process.

The Arbitration Committee has concluded the 2021-22 review of the contentious topics system (formerly known as discretionary sanctions), and its final decision is viewable at the revision process page. As part of the review process, the Arbitration Committee has resolved by motion that:

The above proposals that are supported by an absolute majority of unrecused active arbitrators are hereby enacted. The drafting arbitrators (CaptainEek, L235, and Wugapodes) are directed to take the actions necessary to bring the proposals enacted by this motion into effect, including by amending the procedures at WP:AC/P and WP:AC/DS. The authority granted to the drafting arbitrators by this motion expires one month after enactment.

The Arbitration Committee thanks all those who have participated in the 2021-22 discretionary sanctions review process and all who have helped bring it to a successful conclusion. This motion concludes the 2021-22 discretionary sanctions review process.

This motion initiates a one-month implementation period for the updates to the contentious topics system. The Arbitration Committee will announce when the initial implementation of the Committee's decision has concluded and the amendments made by the drafting arbitrators in accordance with the Committee's decision take effect. Any editors interested in the implementation process are invited to assist at the implementation talk page, and editors interested in updates may subscribe to the update list.

For the Arbitration Committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:47, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

Discuss this at: Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard § Contentious topics procedure adopted

Notice of Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents discussion

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Should we protect some articles during Russian invasion of Ukraine?. Thank you. Lemonaka (talk) 21:29, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Lemonaka, may have been involved in what sense? El_C 03:56, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi, El_C, you protected two articles, Zaporizhzhia Oblast and Kherson Oblast. Emm, maybe you want to protect another two articles I noted on that thread? Lemonaka (talk) 10:42, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Hey. Oh, I did? Okay. I've surpassed 10K protections last month, so it's sometimes hard to remember. Anyway, I replied in that thread. Cheers! El_C 11:50, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

April is a cruel time; Even though the sun may shine

Discussion at WP:HD § Qrep2020

 You are invited to join the discussion at WP:HD § Qrep2020. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:52, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi EL C. Just letting you know about this as a courtesy since you're name appears in the Reddit link that the OP added as part of their question. Maybe you could provide some suggestions to the IP asking the question. Personally, this type of thing seems beyond the scope of the Help Desk. It also seems to be something related to some currently ongoing discussions (BLPN and article talk page); so, I'm not sure how starting another one at the Help Desk is going to help resolve things. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:57, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

Marchjuly, a Reddit thread from 8 months ago where Elon 'stans defend moi. Incredible. And wow, a lot happened since then. Remember how great it when after everyone warned Elon against impersonations on un-verified Twitter Blue, but of course he didn't listen, so it ended up costing fellow plutocrats like Lockheed Martin (get fucked, merchants of death) and Eli Lilly and Company (get fucked, drug profiteers) billions from impersonators? *Chef's kiss*

Or how about just yesterday's ultra-free speeching in the Thursday Night Massacre. I love how he then makes a poll asking whether those reporters should be unbanned, but it doesn't go his way the first time (majority says yes), so he makes a second poll, which also doesn't go his way (majority still says yes) — as the saying goes, if at 3rd you don't succeed... Contrast that with unbanning neo-Nazis like Andrew Anglin... What a crypto adventure.

Anyway, regarding QRep2020: they were un-p-blocked from the Elon Musk bio by Galobtter. I don't recall the circumstances of the unblock, but they (Galobtter) might be able to offer more insights than myself into whatever is going on now. As for myself, anything concerning QRep2020 started and ended in April. Speaking of which, I'm April-merging this thread with the one below due to... April. El_C 03:55, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

My apologies for rehashing old stuff. I should've looked a bit more closely at things to see that most of was related to some past dispute and not something new. I didn't mean drag you back into a bunch of pre-existing messiness. FWIW, I don't use either Twitter or Reddit and don't really know how they work. My knowledge of them is limited to what I might read in the news. Anyway, the OP who posted at the HD has been indefinitely blocked; one unblock request has already been declined and the second one is likely to be declined as well. So, there's nothing really more to do here. Again, I apologize for adding some drama to your user talk page. -- Marchjuly (talk) 23:49, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Hey, you're on TV!

Or something close to it (around 3:32, there's a screenshot of the Che pic from your userpage, alongside a go-off about Wikipedia admins being biased). I may write something about this for the Signpost this month; would you be interested in giving a comment? jp×g 22:23, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

On further analysis, this is a repost of a video made in April, so never mind. jp×g 22:31, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

JPxG, yeah, we discussed that John Stossel video when he originally uploaded it to YouTube (link). I don't remember if the Signpost covered it at the time (and am too lazy to check), but I'm pretty sure WPO did (still too lazy to check). BTW, Twitter is so broken right now, the damn thing didn't even load for me. Apropos above. El_C 03:35, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Repeated personal attacks

ZaniGiovanni, I said this to you once, I said it to you thrice: you gotta pace yourself when using my talk page as an alternative for noticeboards. El_C 21:37, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi El C, hope you're doing well. I keep getting personally attacked by user Utku Öziz (talk · contribs). First in Erzincan where they accused me of wild claims with nothing to back up their statments [34] (I don't even know the user in question they accused me of "collaborating"). After I warned them, it didn't seem to work as they kept throwing personal attacks one after another despite me telling them to stop, [35] with the personal attacks. In the last conversation, they keep insisting (and edit-warred) on adding a genocide denier's "review" to an academic publication's article, which I explained them in detail why is unacceptable. They refuse to acknowledge having done any personal attacks. Idk what else to do and how to interact with this user. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 16:44, 19 December 2022 (UTC) Hello @El C I saw that my name was tagged on your page and I am very sorry as I was open to discussion with a fellow Wikipedian. Sadly WP:SOCKPUPPET has become very common in Wikipedia and sometimes these coincidences make me think of such cases. However, I did not file a complaint unlike @ZaniGiovanni as I want to have a constructive discussion and edit together. But when I saw the pattern of reverting and that @ZaniGiovanni stating the WP:3RR with the same user twice I found it suspicious. Also my entire edits were being reverted in other pages too. So it seemed as though the user was following and reverting my sourced edits. He was stating one rule that applied to one source that I have shared and he was reverting the entire edit with it. Our interaction started with @ZaniGiovanni reverting my sourced & photographically documented edits. Furthermore, he reverted my edits using WP:PRIMARY in the article Erzincan. However another WP:PRIMARY source from the same person (Karabekir) is in the article and is still in that article. So mentioning one account about a person and not the other does not make sense in my mind he did not reply to it still when reverting. I did not make any attacks to his personality nor made any comment on his beliefs, opinions etc. nor did I use any profanity. However he used words like nonsensical rant to describe my comments. He posted some of the Wikipedia rules on my page which implied that he was accusing me. I thought what he did seemed exactly like those rules and I wrote the same rules again. Is saying that a personal attack? I may not know what is considered personal attacks fully on Wikipedia. If there is a page I would be happy to learn. If my descriptions are personal attacks than I apologize for these from @ZaniGiovanni. However there was also an IP on the same article that made its first edit ever on this topic. The Great Game of Genocide: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia 9 minutes later user @ZaniGiovanni deleted my edit. The Great Game of Genocide: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia. This IP used the word WP:FRINGE in its edit to my sourced and verifiable edit which is used in many sources already and on my next edit @ZaniGiovanni also said WP:FRINGE to what I wrote in a different article. These coincidences seemed WP:SOCKPUPPET. On my user page I also told him that "I am sorry if you are offended" and earlier I also told him that "I really want us to have a constructive dialogue". I still want to have such dialogues but it seemed that he was following my other edits and deleting my contributions including images. I did not go to other articles that @ZaniGiovanni is editing and started reverting his edits. Utku Öziz (talk) 20:02, 19 December 2022 (UTC) You're not the first person to make baseless accusations on top of personal attacks. After so many times of personally attacking me and refusing to acknowledge anything on top (even now you're not acknowledging anything with this "If my descriptions are personal attacks..."), you're now making sockpuppet accusations with no evidence. I've had enough of this nonsense. Instead you should try to stop pushing state sponsored denialists as "review" of academic WP:RS, or extremely WP:cherry-pick a single picture out of an academic book to post it in the article by all means possible, ignoring any reason on your talk page. However he used words like nonsensical rant - You mean the baseless accusations not only towards me but other user, and personal attack rant I removed that had nothing to do with the discussion? [36]. You also mention Karabaker, an unreliable primary source who was literally the commander of Turkish forces at the time, but don't mention the discussion that had the same things mentioned by other users and how Karabakeir is far from RS and is primary? All of these just reeks of incompetence, the personal attacks and baseless accusations of "socking" now. I believe enough is enough. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 20:31, 19 December 2022 (UTC) Dear @ZaniGiovanni you may be a great guy and we might be good friends if we ever meet. This however is one thing and our actions are another. Now I understand Karabekir being a primary source however his primary source is used in the article already about Arshak Jamalyan. Another source written by Karabekir where he mentions again Arshak Jamalyan is deleted. This does not make sense to me how should it make sense? I do not think I am being unreasonable here. In which Wikipedia rule it states to keep one Primary source of person A and delete the other primary source of person A? You nor other users in Erzincan's talk page have still not answered about this phenomenon. Moreover being the commander of Turkish forces does not make him unreliable. There are many cases in history where the first person accounts are used. I have added Brad Dennis' research. You have deleted it because you said that there are couple deniers in the University of Utah. It does not make the entire university unreliable which I believe is discrimination. I am not reverting your edits but you are reverting mine. I am also not ignoring reason and am trying to build a constructive dialogue which I reiterate. So the interaction between us happened when you reverted my edits. I believe I have the right to raise my suspicion and doing that I do not think is an attack. You use the words reeks of incompetence to me which I find offensive and defamatory. Utku Öziz (talk) 21:40, 19 December 2022 (UTC) You keep derailing from your personal attacks, baseless accusations like "socking" and asking me questions about an article that I haven't even edited, hello? Saying Kâzım Karabekir primary account is reliable for anything related to Armenia is itself a lack of competence, even when being told by other users multiple times that he's obviously not. No wonder you kept adding him for exceptional claims, same Karabekir that sought to eliminate Armenia politically and physically. (164 - 165). In any case, I'm not here to discuss content with you, that I've done enough on article talks and on your talk page. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 23:25, 19 December 2022 (UTC) Hello @ZaniGiovanni no I did not mean that you have edited Arshak Jamalyan article. You do not need to use the word hello in such a way. I meant that the section in Erzincan - Wikipedia article where Karabekir's account is already used. I added another book of Karabekir and gave information about Arshak Jamalyan which you deleted saying WP:PRIMARY. So other users also reverted my edits without giving the reason to the fact below: This is not deleted: Karabekir, Kâzım. Erzincan ve Erzurum'un Kurtuluşu: Sarıkamış, Kars ve Ötesi (The Liberation of Erzincan and Erzurum: Sarıkamış, Kars and Beyond). Erzurum Ticaret ve Sanayi Odası Araştırma, Geliştirme ve Yardımlaşma Vakfı, 1990, p. 377. ISBN 978-975-512-072-0.) Here Karabekir mentions: Arshak Jamalyan who was a Bolshevik soldier, called Kurdish, Turkish, and Armenian representatives to take charge of the administration of Erzincan Soviet. This you deleted: Karabekir, Kâzım (2000). 1917-20 Arasında Erzincan'dan Erivan'a [From Erzincan to Yerevan in-between 1917-20] (in Turkish). İstanbul, Türkiye: Emre Yayınları. ISBN 9789758496112. Here Karabekir metnions: "The Muslims killed by the bandit called Arsak (Arshak Jamalyan) in Bayburt by burning were close to a thousand." Same primary source talking about the same person who is Arshak Jamalyan. Furthermore you have deleted the other secondary source that I have added without mentioning the reason. Utku Öziz (talk) 10:25, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

golan settlements extended confirmed

Any way I can get you to skip the WP:RFPP process for the 30+ settlements in the Golan to get them extended confirmed? See the contributions of Special:Contributions/Dpb126948 for why that is necessary. nableezy - 15:55, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

If by skip you mean wait longer... Anyway, Done. El_C 21:33, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

ty kindly, nableezy - 00:43, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Back Friday (probably)

Delays. El_C 22:03, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

69

-nt- El_C 22:03, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Question re warning

Hi El C, I hope you're well. I had a small question regarding my logged warning [37]. I'm currently working on an article about an Armenian–Azerbaijani peace agreement in 1919 [38]. The issue is that I'm unsure if me using this [39] Routledge-published source by Jamil Hasanli would be in contravention of my warning. The reason I ask is that Hasanli writes something strange on page 293 regarding the reports of massacres of Armenians (specifically the Genocide):

The facts gathered by Niles and Sutherland differed from others in that they came to the Caucasus to find dead Armenians but found only dead Muslims everywhere. Emory Niles’s and Arthur Sutherland’s “lost” reports brought to light just how subjective in character are the claims of Armenian genocide. Reports of attempted destruction of the Armenian race were shocking to Americans when published in New York in 1918 by the U.S. Ambassador to Istanbul from 1913 to 1916, Henry Morgenthau, but they were unsubstantiated, being founded on information given only by Armenians.

Other than these strange sentences, the rest of Hasanli's book is indispensable on the topic of interwar Azerbaijan's diplomacy with Armenia, hence why I ask if it's appropriate for use. Thanks, – Olympian ^loquere 05:45, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

I do not believe these are just some strange choice of words by the author, because addition excerpts from the book show they are very anti-Armenian:

Whenever representatives of the Entente powers, under the influence of Armenian propaganda, met with the representatives of Azerbaijan and Georgia, they would advise them to live with the Armenians in conditions of peace.

The representatives of Azerbaijan suffered from the effects of this classic demagogy and manipulation of public opinion. Topchubashov wrote to Baku that "The activities of Armenian intellectuals in the heart of Europe for more than half a century, the enormous financial resources at their disposal, their skills of movement on all fronts and in attracting people to their side, along with their American compatriots, have stirred up wide sympathy for Armenians, especially lately. These great advantages obscure the negative aspects of the Armenians."

Causing significant damage to Muslims they speak to the whole world about "long-suffering Armenians" and try to get its sympathy. Dead Armenians are very valuable to the Dashnaks. If it is possible to use them properly, then they could bring many benefits to their agitation activities.

--Dallavid (talk) 23:13, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Olympian (and Dallavid), I can't advise you on that as, to start with, I can't spare the time to do the necessary research for the material in question. Material with which I am not greatly familiar with. Generally, content should be addressed on respective article talk pages; issues with sources, specifically, can be brought to Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard. HTH. El_C 21:41, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

@El C Would the use of such sources, which aren't obvious deniers, get me sanctioned (as I can't possibly take every single source I want to use to RSN). Regards, – Olympian ^loquere 23:35, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

I don't know, because, again, I'm not familiar with the particulars. But as mentioned at the AE board, if you don't feel confident about sources that might skirt the line (in a genocide denialist sense), perhaps it'd be best to... well, do something else. El_C 08:06, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Seasons Greetings

Whatever you celebrate at this time of year, whether it's Christmas or some other festival, I hope you and those close to you have a happy, restful time! Have fun, Donner60 (talk) 00:16, 23 December 2022 (UTC)}}

Donner60 (talk) 04:28, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

MBlaze Lightning (talk) is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas2}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

MBlaze Lightning (talk) 09:06, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

User:Saucysalsa30

Hi El C, I tried to ping you to a discussion at Saucysalsa30's Talk page about their topic ban from the topic of Kurds and Kurdistan, broadly construed, but the discussion was removed by Saucysalsa30 [40] before I could respond to their most recent comment. They have recently posted two AfDs for the founders of Women for Women International, an organization that works in Iraq, including with Kurdish women, as documented in a report cited in the Wikipedia article for the organization and as noted on the organization's website. Thank you, Beccaynr (talk) 22:36, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

The matter was answered in full here[41][42], in response to the query by Beccaynr, so I won't add much. For context, Beccaynr is involved at an AfD I created and after my response addressing Beccaynr's argument, which contradicted WP:GNG/WP:ANYBIO[43], created the aforementioned comments on my Talk page[44][45], to which I'd responded (see first two diffs). The AfD is for Zainab Salbi who is a co-founder of Women for Women International which she left in 2011. Not only is Salbi's article a degree removed from WFWI (I never touched the Women for Women International article), none of the 3 Wikipedia articles including Amjad Atallah make any mention of "Kurds" in the most trivial way. WFWI has also operated in many countries, not only Iraq nor only with Kurds, most famously first with Bosnian women. Beccaynr dug online into subpages under websites, and found a particular subpage on the org's self-published website (not exactly reliable sourcing) making trivial mention to this, which before, didn't mention Kurds in the first place[46] In any case, the first two diffs I posted explain in full. Saucysalsa30 (talk) 22:52, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

No violation. On its face, none of the items mentioned primarily concern WP:KURDS, so even with WP:BROADLY in mind, it seems like a bit of a stretch. @Beccaynr and Saucysalsa30: courtesy pings. El_C 04:26, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Acknowledged. Thanks for taking a look. Saucysalsa30 (talk) 04:53, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

• FFU – "a bit of a stretch" ^[stretch] Atsme 💬 📧 11:15, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

  Please forgive me, Atsme, if I am missing the joke - based on my experience at AfD, conduct that appears to tend towards bludgeoning may indicate inexperience but sometimes may suggest larger conduct issues relevant to the project - when I saw a Tban notice on the nom's Talk page, I wondered whether it applied to AfDs for the co-founders of an organization with work that includes "...populations of Iraqi women, displaced Yezidi peoples, and Kurdish women. Over the last three years of intensive work in the Kurdistan Region of Iraq (KRI)...", so I asked for clarification. It was not difficult for me to find this information on the website for the organization, which appears to have a long history of working in Iraq.

  During the User Talk page discussion, Saucysalsa30 referred to a cite in the organization's article which seems to indicate it was possible to discern at the time of the AfD nom that the organization had a focus on Kurds in 2008, by reviewing the report cited. Saucysalsa30 then removed the discussion from their Talk page, and seems to suggest in their edit summary that I asked for clarification in bad faith [47], due to my participation in the AfD of an Iraqi-American who has been referred to as "the Oprah of the Middle East", and is known for her work with the organization, as well as her memoir writing. Based on my AfD experience, it seemed best to ignore such personalized comments, and to focus instead on the content and whether 'nibbling at the edges' of this Tban includes AfDs for the founders of an organization that has worked in Iraq, with Kurds, and in the Kurdistan Region.

  The clarification by El C is appreciated, and I had tried to keep my comments brief and focused on the content; with clown and smiley emoji added here, perhaps I was too brief to explain the seriousness of my question about the Tban. Thank you, Beccaynr (talk) 18:26, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

• Yes, you missed it. I did not make it part of the discussion, which is why it is out in left field. I was simply showing El C a template I created for "a bit of a stretch" - it's for FFU (For Future Use); {{stretch}} Atsme 💬 📧 18:43, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

• With a Joker! (The old school one; the nihilist one is boring.) El_C 18:52, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

• I am impressed that you saw a joker and not a clown - you are quite the precisionist. Cheers! Atsme 💬 📧 18:57, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

• Thank you, Atsme, and I appreciate your precision. Cheers, Beccaynr (talk) 22:26, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Appreciate your review

Just wanted to inform you that I shortened AE report to fit the 500 words limit. Thanks! A b r v a g l ^(PingMe) 13:50, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

K. El_C 14:40, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Happy Kalends of January

		Happy New Year!
		Wishing you and yours a Happy New Year, from the horse and bishop person. May the year ahead be productive and distraction-free and may Janus light your way. Ealdgyth (talk) 13:46, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Happy New Year, El C!

Happy New Year!

El C,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
— Moops ^⋠T⋡ 00:27, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

— Moops ^⋠T⋡ 00:27, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

2023

January songs

happy new year

colours to move forward! please add to Psalm 66 once its convenient for you --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:15, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

today, I point at two singers I whose performance I enjoyed. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:58, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

today, less pointy: a composition from a remarkable 2022 concert, the sad record of four articles about people who recently died on the Main page at the same time, and singing for Epiphany --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:34, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

on vacation, miss you - hope you'll return - Psalm 73 now also waiting for you finishing touch --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:01, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

Email notification

Hello, El C. Please check your email; you've got mail!
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SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 17:00, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

The matter has since been addressed by another admin, just so you know. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 02:36, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Discussion regarding Injustice and Suspected Admin Abuse

I have been partially blocked by you for 2 months now for a new article that I created, which other user reverted. I was accused of Disruptive editing (which I did by mistake, as I did not know if I can create a new article or not). Though I did not get a single warning related to it from you. The only warning that I got from you was for the the policies (lack of knowledge, then). Another admin User:Abecedare was also witnessing everything and suggested me to take a few days break from the topic. [48]. Suddenly, 22 minutes later, you just blocked me and said you gave me multiple warnings, though it was not the case. Maybe, you thought that I was referring to you for being partial and took it to your heart. Though it was for another admin who was not saying anything to the user who was accusing me for being anti-Pak. You accused me of many other things while blocking me, though I did everything related to those accusations only after discussion with you. When I look at the reasons now, I find that I was banned unnecessarily. Even when another user reverted my created page, I said then only that I am stepping back.

After two months, when I understood all the reasons for which you blocked me (even accepted some baseless accusations) and applied for unblock, while also giving valid reasons on how I understand the reasons and will not repeat any mistake. An admin User:JBW looked into the unblock request but when they contacted you, you gave reasons on why u don't think my future editing will be different (reasons just completely unrelated to the block). You said if will be too soon to lift the unblock. Are 2 months too soon for a small mistake of creating new article? How much more time will you find enough? As I have started finding this behaviour of yours as an abuse of Admin power. You brought the reason of sock puppet. So, let me tell you again I only did productive editing from it. And already faced a week's ban for it. So, spare me now. It's more than enough already. I am fed up and frustrated due to this. SunnyKambojLive (talk) 22:39, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

SunnyKambojLive, I looked into this case and frankly, El C and others involved have been extremely lenient with you. Editors who use sockpuppetry to get their way, as you did with UCoEFreaks, typically get blocked indefinitely. Attempting to relitigate the issues is likely only going to result in you facing increased sanctions due to apparent inability to take advice in good faith. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 22:59, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

I just want to know how much time will be enough to get unblocked from the article. See, this is the problem. Whenever I feel victim of bully or suspect abuse by an admin and try to discuss (suggested by Wikipedia only), I start getting these messages like extremely lenient, blocking indefinetely etc. which I feel threatening.

I am saying I have been blocked (though partially) unnecessarily, without a single related warning. Where one admin had no problem and suggested me to take a break and another admin suddenly blocked me on purpose and now making sure that other admins don't lift the block.

I want to know how much more time this will take? After how much time, the blocking admin will not think to keep blocking me as they did not have a valid reason this time also.

Is there any specific time as per the policies or depends on blocking admin's will and wish. Because that's what is making it power abuse. You mentioned WP:IDHT but I did all this inblock process after getting advice from a couple of admins. Now, tell me who's advice shoul I take or who's not? Because some admins abuse their power and start behaving like wikipedia's owners. Just tell me how much more time will be enough?SunnyKambojLive (talk) 05:24, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

SunnyKambojLive, it doesn't take time, it takes good behavior, and the original admin is not the person to appeal to unless they specifically ask for it. Spend a month or two making positive contributions to articles, then file an unblock request and it will likely be accepted. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 05:35, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

As I mentioned in my unblock request, my behaviour before and after this incident that happened 2 months ago has been absolutely fine. I never indulged in any debate with anyone before that. And after the incident, when a couple of users showed bad behaviour, I remained calm. Now also, I am only discussing (suggested by Wikipedia) and not indulging in any sort of bad behaviour. Doing everything as per policies.

And, I did not appealed to the blocking admin. It is just that when an another admin examined the matter and wanted to unblock me and when they contacted the blocking admin, the blocking admin bluntly said No and gave reasons unrelated to the block.

I was adviced by the blocking admin (2 months ago) to try to branch out and edit other articles, which I did and made positive contributions. The articles which other admins and users suggested. Some even mentioned such articles. But in my unblock request, the blocking admin said that I am not editing outside the topic. That's seemed invalid reason and just an excuse to keep me blocked. So, please tell me if I can edit any other article or it is necessary to edit outside the topic of Punjabi cinema, as this is a broad topic and can't be consider as single purpose.

Then, I can give this one more month (as u say) and comeback with the unblock request. Will mention you at that time. Kindly Just clear my current doubts.

And, I came here to discuss with the blocking admin because after this I wanted to go ahead to Dispute settlement committee or complaining to Arbitration Committee for suspected Admin Abuse.

One more thing, Disruptive editing is being done on the article in question and I can't do anything till I get unblocked. Please intervene and stop or revert the disruption. A user is removing well sourced content from there. Also, I am unable to add more sources, where there is lack as I am blocked.

Thanks & Regards, SunnyKambojLive (talk) 06:22, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

By good behavior, I mean making constructive contributions to Wikipedia. Your editing record is quite clear: since being unblocked in December you've made about 50 edits in a little under 3 weeks. Of those edits, exactly 2 were unrelated to your block or the broader dispute List of highest-grossing Punjabi films. Make significant contributions to literally any other article. Until you show that you're here to build an encyclopedia and not to fight over one article, your block is unlikely to be lifted. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 06:49, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

My editing record will be crystal clear if you do the following.

If u go back 2 months ago, when I was partially blocked, you will see that I made -

20 edits for Discussions related to the page from where I was partially blocked. (if they are counted as edits)

29 edits for other Wikipedia articles.

12 edits for other Discussions when an admin wrongly thought a user to be my sock-puppet.

10 edits for the unblock request of the full block that was there for a week.

And 36 edits for the ongoing discussions related to my unblock request for the previous partial block. (that too when I was asked for the justifications by the examining admin)

I am a human only. And can do any other thing when I sort one thing (or dispute) and have peace of mind. So, I am already building encyclopedia here while also contesting against (which u termed fighting) the injustice that I am facing. For you, it can be just one article. But for me, it is my hardwork and research of 5 years, which some users are destroying on purpose and that hurts me. SunnyKambojLive (talk) 17:53, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

AE referral to the Arbitration Committee

You are involved in a recently-filed request for clarification or amendment from the Arbitration Committee. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment#Amendment request: Armenia-Azerbaijan_2 and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the Wikipedia:Arbitration guide may be of use.

Thanks, Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 23:36, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Heads-up

Hey there. Wanted to give you a heads-up on an appeal at AN of a discretionary sanction you imposed several months back. Doesn't look like you were notified of the discussion formally outside of a ping. Best, Lord Roem ~ (talk) 18:57, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Amendment request: Community ECR request closed and archived

The Arbitration Committee has closed and archived Amendment request: Community ECR request which you filed. You can view the archived request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment/Archive 123 § Amendment request: Community ECR request. For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 13:16, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

"Kashmir" needs review.

Economy of Kashmir (valley) is specifically driven by Horticulture i.e apple production rather than agriculture in a broader sense. Other sources of income are mainly tourism and it's subsidiaries like handicraft etc. Not talking about Jammu,Ladakh region here as they differ vastly except the fact that Ladakh's econmy has tourism as a driving force. 27.63.19.5 (talk) 18:31, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

You've got mail!

Hello, El C. Please check your email; you've got mail!
Message added 17:01, 11 January 2023 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Lemonaka (talk) 17:01, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Afternoon

Just to let you know I'm back... Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 13:27, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Picking your brain

Hey El_C, happy new year and I hope you're doing well. Since you have the dubious honor of being a very active AE admin, I'm curious to hear whether you have any suggestions for things ArbCom could do to make your life easier at AE. GeneralNotability (talk) 16:05, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Contentious topics procedure now in effect

You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to updates on the Arbitration Committee's contentious topics procedure revision process.

In December, the Arbitration Committee adopted the contentious topics procedure, which replaces the former discretionary sanctions system. The contentious topics procedure is now in effect following an initial implementation period.

• For a detailed summary of the changes from the discretionary sanctions system, see WP:DSVSCT.
• A brief guide for administrators may be found at Wikipedia:Contentious topics/Administrator instructions.
• Updated templates may be found at Template:Contentious topics.
• Suggestions and concerns may be directed to the arbitration clerk team at WT:AC/C.

The drafting arbitrators warmly thank all those who have worked to implement the new procedure during this implementation period and beyond. KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 19:44, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Discuss this at: Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard § Contentious topics procedure now in effect

Hope you're doing well!

Hey El_C, I noticed you haven't edited in a while – hope you are enjoying life and listening to good music! Best wishes for 2023. DanCherek (talk) 00:31, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Arbitration case Armenia-Azerbaijan 3 opened

Hello El C,

You had recently been mentioned in a request for arbitration (without being a party to the case). The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Armenia-Azerbaijan 3. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Armenia-Azerbaijan 3/Evidence. If you would like to add evidence to the case, please add your evidence by February 10, 2023, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Armenia-Azerbaijan 3/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration.

Best regards, ~ ToBeFree (talk) 21:08, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

Doug Mastriano

Hi El C, I just wanted to let you know that I've modified the indef semi you placed on Doug Mastriano (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) under ARBAP2 to ECP for 3 months due to persistent sock puppetry by autoconfirmed accounts. I'll do my best to remember to change it back to semi when the ECP expires. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 09:42, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

"Blocked" user

Hey, it seems you placed a block notice on User talk:Gendalv but didn't actually block the user. I just reverted a forum-y post from the user here. MediaKill13 (talk) 11:17, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

El C is inactive. I have performed the block as suggested now. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 19:43, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Question.

Can I delete my account? Because I can't delete my account on Wikipedia :( Bonthefox3 (talk) 07:46, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

2023 AWOL

Back soon'ish. El_C 13:23, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

February songs

February songs

my daily stories

lovely! - yesterday's cantata, 300 years later - Psalm 72 to 74 now waiting for you --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:13, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

... and Psalm 77 --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:02, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

... and today the regional festival - DYK of 13 years ago ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:04, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

My story on 24 February is about Artemy Vedel (TFA by Amitchell235), and I made a suggestion for more peace, - what do you think? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:10, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

I think... peace through violence! But that's interesting, I was unaware. Going back further, famously, Gogol wanted to write in Ukrainian, but wrote in Russian, instead (because the odds of otherwise making it as an novelist in Russia were slim to none). Yours, El_C 02:10, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

thinking about that - today: two women whose birthday we celebrate today, 99 and 90! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:32, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Nice! Ah, to be young again. And also a robot. El_C 12:49, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Topic ban

Hello. I saw a notification that my name was mentioned in a discussion at Talk:1990_Temple_Mount_riots#Requested_move_9_February_2023, so I added my opinion there. One editor then asked if my topic-ban was lifted. Which is a good question. This was a good few years ago, have no idea how many, but I think this topic-ban should have expired by now. Please clarify, and if necessary, please review the topic-ban. Debresser (talk) 18:42, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for replying there. Per the official notification which you posted on my talkpage a little over two years ago, I would like to take the liberty to ask you to review the sanction you imposed on me. I would propose to decide that the period of time that has passed since is enough to justify allowing me a probation period of a month, in which I would be allowed to make edits in the WP:ARBPIA area on the condition that I would abide by a 1RR rule and no heated conflicts during that time. Violation of either of these two restrictions would result in immediate rescinding of my edit privileges in the WP:ARBPIA area (apart from any other sanctions that may be appropriate), while abiding by them might, after additional evaluation, result in rescinding all restrictions in this area. Debresser (talk) 14:59, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

No problem, Debresser. But I'm afraid I'm not available to assist you with this matter. Feel free to integrate any proposal or conditions to an appeal, in case you choose to do so, though. El_C 17:08, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

A shame you're not available. Thanks for your reply. Debresser (talk) 19:32, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Armenia-Azerbaijan 3 update: Parties added, evidence phase extended

Hello El C,

Three parties have been added to the Armenia-Azerbaijan 3 arbitration case. The evidence phase has been extended and will close on February 21, 2023.

Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Armenia-Azerbaijan 3/Evidence. Please add your evidence by February 21, 2023, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Armenia-Azerbaijan 3/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration.

For the Arbitration committee,
~ ToBeFree (talk) 21:42, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Welcome back!

I think? Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 15:08, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Miss you. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 22:27, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

Miss you too, bro. El_C 02:48, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Arbitration case notification

You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Holocaust in Poland and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. As threaded discussion is not permitted on most arbitration pages, please ensure that you make all comments in your own section only. Additionally, the guide to arbitration and the Arbitration Committee's procedures may be of use.

Thanks, GeneralNotability (talk) 20:11, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

I appreciated your comment a great deal. Thank you. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 23:46, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, Goldsztajn. I'm glad it struck a chord with you. All the best, El_C 23:35, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

I think you were too hard on yourself. It's mire and muck in that area, and you did your best to wade through it. (And this is why I avoid AE.) -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 01:25, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

+1 Jehochman ^Talk 15:20, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

Gabby Petito page protection

It seems like the protection on Killing of Gabby Petito could be reviewed. The main editors who had been causing problems have all been blocked as socks or for persistent disruption elsewhere. Mako001 (C)  (T)  🇺🇦 14:33, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Protection downgraded. El_C 14:49, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Precious

Six years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:09, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Jim Gardiner (Chicago politician)

Hello. Back in 2021 you protected Jim Gardiner. I don't believe it to be necessary anymore. The article has only been edited by me in the past 2 years and the subject is relatively low profile. I already posted a request to unprotect at WP:Requests for page protection (I didn't realize I was supposed to contact you first; sorry!). Thanks, Iamreallygoodatcheckers ^talk 04:02, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

Looks like protection was downgraded. Will update the log. El_C 14:50, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

CozyandDozy

Hi @El C. Would you mind looking at this decision please: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive277#CozyandDozy. The editor involved has recommenced editing. The notice says "If they return to editing, broad AP2 and BLP restrictions should be immediately imposed, referencing this report". The editor has been making extensive , and in my opinion, controversial edits at Aaron Mate and Max Blumenthal, which I have to some extent challenged. I have also started talk page discussions with which the editor has so far not engaged. Burrobert (talk) 04:49, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

Burrobert, I'm not around enough right now to investigate this, nor do I have a firm recollection of that case from 2 years ago. You could start a new WP:AE complaint, though, if you wish.

In hindsight, imposing indef TBAN(s) at that time probably would have been better, leaving the burden of returning to the topic area on them (i.e. via an appeal) at any future time. Oh well.

So, if the same pattern of problematic edits could be demonstrated, then those aforementioned sanctions are likely to be due. And if they are due, make sure to stress that they need to be of an indef duration, not timed — because obviously the same issue might occur where they would disappear for years only to then return to the topic area(s) in question. Thanks and good luck. El_C 14:14, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Right-ho thanks. Burrobert (talk) 01:38, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

Shenyang J-8

Hi El C, for nearly a year, the Shenyang J-8 has been subjected to disruptive editing by the (static) Special:Contributions/2001:44B8:111F:8A00::/64 range, and at least two registered editors. The edits have removed the phrase "and massacre" from the link in the article to the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre. They appear to be focusing on the J-8 article, as the main article has been indefinitely semi-protected (by you) since Oct 2021. Since the beginning of 2023, the number of edits per month has increased, and especially in the past week. I assume that if they had any actual interest in discussing the issue, they'd go to the main article's talk page. Is all this enough to warrant some semi-protection for the article? Thanks. BilCat (talk) 19:37, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Hey BilCat. No, pages are not ordinarily protected over one user. Rather, a block is imposed. Since they were blocked for 24 hours 2 days ago, I've blocked them for a week this time. Best, El_C 21:38, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

No problem, and thanks! BilCat (talk) 21:42, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

A change of pace

	"Sunflower Award"
	Your work as an admin is not being graded, But it certainly is much appreciated, To know that you see with vision that's clear, A bright light of integrity we tend to hold dear! Thank you for all you do! You don't get enough of these. Atsme 💬 📧 23:18, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the rhymes, Atsme! I'm humbled, truly. El_C 10:56, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#TrangaBellam

As I understand it, I am only allowed one statement in the request itself and cannot add a new statement? In view of this, can I post my response to Gitz's accusations on a separate page and link to the response in my request, or will this be considered an attempt to circumvent the limit? Marcelus (talk) 11:11, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

You can add replies to the original opening (immediately following it) but it needs to adhere to the total word/diff limits unless an extension is granted. I view collapsing those excesses or moving them to subpages as circumventing the rules, but YMMV. El_C 11:43, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, who can grant me the extension? Marcelus (talk) 11:47, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Sure np. Any admin can grant one. El_C 11:50, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, for all the mess I'm making in WP:AE, it's my first time, I hope it's all good now. Admin User:ScottishFinnishRadish said he don't want to get involved, so I will just wait for another admin to get involved in the request. Marcelus (talk) 12:20, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

I said I'm already WP:INVOLVED in such a way that I'm not going to take part in any AE request dealing with TrangaBellam, as we've had significant interactions in the past. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:27, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Spring is in the air

Winter of 1978 part 2 electric boogaloo El_C 13:00, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Glad to see you back, ol' chap. I can feel that spring is creeping in because, despite all of the snow this year falling within the past week and this upcoming weekend, I have new baby rabbits! Fresh from the oven, and in eight weeks ready to back in a different oven. That means I'm one step close to shit shoveling season, when I have to move all of my compost up to my garden beds.

Recently started the Three Body Problem series. Finished the first book, which was pretty short, and in the middle of the second now. It's pretty interesting, and is getting an adaptation on Netflix, and there's apparently already an adaptation out in China. Despite being a Chinese novel, it takes a pretty dim view on the cultural revolution and some of the aspects of modern China, so I'd be interested to see what, if anything, changed for the Chinese television adaptation.

Hope all is well, and again, glad to see you back. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:35, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks bro! Am I back, though, really? ;) Yeah, it's been a weird winter, though maybe not Winter of 1977 / 1978 weird. Cool, pet bunnies, but no stews allowed! Believe it or not, I'm still Green Rider'ing along. Been very busy, but finally had some time (doesn't help that the latest books are getting longer and longer). Finished Mirror Sight 2 weeks ago (best one in the series so far, by far), and now am nearly done with Firebrand (all +800 pages). After that, Winterlight (no article but ++ topical), which I think is the last one. Yours, El_C 12:49, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

I'm getting ready for about a foot of snow tonight, but compared to some past years, that's nothing. I remember a winter about 15 years ago where we just got hammered every few days with another 8-16 inches of snow, and ended up with about three feet of snow cover everywhere. At the time I was working in a large city as a cable guy, and holy shit was it horrible. A large portion of the city had the utility poles in backyard easements so I had to hump my ladder through hip deep snow to get any work done.

Meanwhile, this year, I only got to go ice fishing once because the weather has been so mild. Of course the one day I got to go out it was −21 °F (−29 °C), which made for a miserable day of catching very few fish. Luckily, we had whiskey, which helped the situation. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:24, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Got Winterlight today! (It has a neat cover!) El_C 08:21, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Speaking of neat covers, my wife got me the Fear Inoculum vinyl box set for valentines day. Sounds great, and the mix seems completely different than the digital version. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:59, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Willow is not in the air

Wabbit Season

It got cancelled, and I'm not sure how I feel about it. It certainly wasn't good, but it hit the nostalgia buttons. It was more enjoyable than both the rings of dour and the incest hour of power. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:15, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Oh. Hmm. Yeah, it got hammy fast, but same here, I too was riding the nostalgia wave. Still, some major cringe moments, but for sure, nothing like the Rings of Bezos, which was the epitome of insufferable. But I liked Incest Dragons, much more than Willow. That pink alien pic is very cute btw. El_C 12:44, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Three Body Update

It occurred to me that I hadn't provided an update. I read the three main books, but not the fourth book by a different author that is generally considered to be bad fan fiction. The series was a pretty great price of speculative fiction with a different solution to the Fermi paradox than Spin. It got a little up it's own ass sometimes during explanations of science and philosophy, but overall it was pretty great. I don't want to go into detail because I strongly suggest you give it a read. It's been pretty widely translated as well.

I've moved into the Mistborn series, which is exactly what I expected from Sanderson. Not as good as The Stormlight Archive books, but decent enough.

Hope that spring is treating you well and life is good. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:41, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Hey. Sorry for belated, am away for a little while, but briefly: that's interesting (noted for further). I was actually thinking of getting Echopraxia (book 2 in the Firefall series, but works as a stand alone), which seems to largely speak to/on that. As for me, book 7 (Winterlight, 2021) now done, with the next one (the final in the series) expected to be finished end of 2023.

Right now, I'm halfway through The Pariah, book 1 in Anthony Ryan's The Covenant of Steel series. It's alright, I guess, he's a talented writer and it has potential, but hopefully it picks up. Also, up until now, there's a seeming total absence of magic, etc., though religious motives abound. Which is fine, I suppose, but apropos Sanderson's Laws of Magic, I'm honestly looking for an extra oomph in my 'fantasy' (something that fundamentally alters what are otherwise ancient or medieval societies). TTYS. El_C 14:55, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Arbitration sanctions

Hello, El C,

I think this is the first time I've come to you for advice and counsel. But I think you have extensive experience with arbitration sanctions and I really have little to none. We had a clusterf*ck tonight, a relatively new editor, Skovl, created a spin-off article for the Russian-Ukrainian war and, what was worse, they changed dozens and dozens of existing redirects for the original Ukrainian War articles to point to their new article they created just today. It was tagged for deletion and the reason (ContentFork, duplicate article) seemed valid so I deleted their article. Unfortunately, at the same time, I deleted probably 40 redirects. I needed to restore them each individually and revert the redirect target change that Skovl had made. This took a lot of time and I was admittedly livid and left a, for me, rather heated warning on their User talk page. It was only later that I realized that there are sanctions, Wikipedia:General sanctions/Russo-Ukrainian War, that not only prevent this editor from creating new articles on this subject but from editing in this area. I alerted them to this information but since most of their editing has involved the war, I'm not sure that they will go cold-turkey and stop editing articles and redirects in this subject area.

So, I'm not sure what to do at this point. I used to use Twinkle to post Arbitration sanctions notices but since ArbCom changed their system to contentious topics, Twinkle doesn't have the ability to post these standard ArbCom warning notifications. So, I don't know if my messages to them are sufficient warnings or maybe their other edits should be reverted. So, I'd appreciate it if you could look over their brief editing history along with the messages I left at User talk:Skovl and see if any further steps need to be taken. Thanks, in advance, for any advice you can offer. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:02, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

If you have any talk page stalkers who are well-versed in ArbCom sanctions or helping out at AE and would like to contribute to this discussion, I'd like to hear your thoughts as well. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:03, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Hey Liz. Of course happy to help. Though a few days ago, I returned from being away for a few months, so I'm not fully up to date yet with the WP:ACDS → WP:CTOP transition. But having the longstanding, broader ARBCOM-authorized sanction regime that covers this topic area, WP:ARBEE, overlap with this newer and narrower community-authorized one, WP:GS/RUSUKR, can be tricky. I previously argued RUSKR should just be absorbed into ARBEE, so that everything could be consolidated @WP:AEL#Eastern Europe — but no dice. Oh well. Anyway, I like how ToBeFree did it here (which also added WP:ARBPIA to the alert for good measure). Keep in mind, the sanction regime systems continue to be rather clunky, even after the DS → CT transition, because these evolved over a prolonged period of time, containing multiple layers. Complexity that often leads to confusion among both editors and admins.

Consider for example how when writing this I was gonna tell you in passing that one of the reasons ARBEE is so broad, is because it absorbed prior related cases, like WP:BALKANS, a shortcut that currently leads back to Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe (WP:ARBEE). However, I originally typed it in lower case, wp:balkans, a shortcut that currently leads to Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Macedonia (WP:ARBMAC), which in turn, if you click onto you'll see has two shortcuts at the top of its page — the main one, WP:ARBMAC, but also upper case WP:BALKANS, which as you recall leads us back to... ARBEE. I discovered this odd loop just in the course of writing this! BTW there's still a section available at the log for ARBMAC @WP:AEL#Macedonia (0 entries this year, but last year there were 8, six of which mine, and the other two by Deepfriedokra). And I didn't even mention WP:APL (nor will I)! Sorry, I ramble, but this is just to illustrate how rife the inconsistencies are which makes this such a challenging area of the project to navigate.

Anyway, as for this case, your warning seems serviceable enough, except for the error in the header that currently reads #Arbitration Committee General Sanctions — as mentioned, these are in fact community-authorized sanctions that overlaps and supplement the broader ARBEE, but also operate independently. It used to be that one couldn't use WP:AE for these community sanctions, but as of recently, that has been allowed (so no problem with mentioning that). In any case, if they still continue to violate the the WP:500-30 tenure after your warning, the next step would be to block, which would be logged @#Individual_sanctions. More generally, a list of all the currently active community-authorized sanction regimes is @WP:GS#Decisions. The procedure for each may vary somewhat, with these being outlined at the individual page level (unlike RUSKR, most will have an alert template, so you don't have to write it out as you did in this instance). Unlike these, the procedure for ARBCOM-authorized sanction regimes is (or at least in theory should be) streamlined throughout. I often rely on the T:DSA shortcut as a resouce. It's specifically a redirect to the alerts, but if you scroll to the bottom you'll see @Template:Contentious topics/list/single notice transcluded, which covers most of the relevant documentation for the ARBCOM stuff. HTH and please don't hesitate to follow up with any further questions. Best regards, El_C 08:21, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Dear Lord. I've gone cross-eyed. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 09:26, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi Liz, El C and Deepfriedokra, at the risk of flooding Skovl with a lot of redundant information, I've added User:ToBeFree/RUSUKR_introduction to their talk page. I think most of it is already covered by Liz's message, so perhaps it was unnecessary of me to do so.

Anyway, if they continue editing in this area, blocking without further warning is definitely an option. Anyone who is unwilling, hesitant or technically unable to perform that block would be welcome to notify me on my talk page. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 11:58, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

March stories

March songs

my story today

On IWD, I remember a 2016 DYK: Hana Blažíková, a Czech who sang German music in Japan. Girls and women sang how Bach arranged Pergolesi's Stabat Mater to a new text paraphrasing Psalm 51, last Sunday. (Gentle reminder that between Psalm 72 and 78, there are several missing Hebrew.) - I loved improving Mary Bauermeister - on the Main page until yesterday. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:13, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

today we remember the 150th birthday of Max Reger, who saw the horrors of a world war right when it began in 1914, while others were still in high patriotic moods --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:48, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

sharing impressions from vacation on Madeira 20-30 March, pics now at 24 Mar from the peaks --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:04, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Nice, new cats! Hope it was a good vacation; pics look great! El_C 04:29, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Question for you

Why did you extended protect United States? 26zhangi (talk) 22:50, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Because there was a request for it to be protected and that was the protection level I deemed suitable. El_C 23:15, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Why wasn’t semi enough? Was there vandalism from autoconfirmed accounts? 26zhangi (talk) 23:29, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Yes. I both upgraded and downgraded its protection a few times in years past, as well. I copied the protection log for you below, in case you're interested:

Log
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
18:38, 3 October 2022 El C talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States [Edit=Require extended confirmed access] (indefinite) [Move=Require administrator access] (indefinite) (upgrade protection (again)) (hist | change) 22:14, 26 September 2022 Sdrqaz talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States [Edit=Require autoconfirmed or confirmed access] (indefinite) [Move=Require administrator access] (indefinite) (Procedural reinstatement of prior semi-protection following full protection's expiry) (hist | change) (thank) 15:50, 26 September 2022 SarekOfVulcan talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States [Edit=Require administrator access] (expires 18:50, 26 September 2022) [Move=Require administrator access] (indefinite) (Edit warring / content dispute) (hist | change) Tag: Twinkle (thank) 17:49, 8 September 2022 El C talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States [Edit=Require autoconfirmed or confirmed access] (indefinite) [Move=Require administrator access] (indefinite) (Restoring previous indef semi (following full protection)) (hist | change) 12:06, 5 September 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States [Edit=Require administrator access] (expires 12:06, 7 September 2022) [Move=Require administrator access] (indefinite) (Edit warring / content dispute) (hist | change) Tag: Twinkle (thank) 09:16, 14 October 2019 El C talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States [Edit=Require autoconfirmed or confirmed access] (indefinite) [Move=Require administrator access] (indefinite) (reduce protection: testing the waters) (hist | change) 01:14, 9 August 2019 El C talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States [Edit=Require extended confirmed access] (indefinite) [Move=Require administrator access] (indefinite) (Up protection) (hist | change) 04:03, 25 February 2019 Swarm talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States [Edit=Require autoconfirmed or confirmed access] (indefinite) [Move=Require administrator access] (indefinite) (on second thought, restore semi) (hist | change) (thank) 03:58, 25 February 2019 Swarm talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States [Edit=Require administrator access] (expires 03:58, 4 March 2019) [Move=Require administrator access] (indefinite) (Edit warring / content dispute) (hist | change) (thank) 12:39, 28 January 2019 Favonian talk contribs block protected United States [Edit=Require autoconfirmed or confirmed access] (indefinite) [Move=Require administrator access] (indefinite) (reinstate semi after temp. full -- requested at WP:RFPP) (hist | change) (thank) 02:41, 24 January 2019 Oshwah talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States [Edit=Require administrator access] (expires 02:41, 26 January 2019) [Move=Require administrator access] (expires 02:41, 26 January 2019) (Edit warring / content dispute) (hist | change) (thank) 18:45, 21 May 2015 CambridgeBayWeather talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States ‎‎[edit=autoconfirmed] (indefinite)‎[move=sysop] (indefinite) (Persistent disruptive editing: Misread the thing) (hist | change) (thank) 23:24, 13 May 2015 Nakon talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States ‎‎[edit=sysop] (expires 03:24, 21 May 2015 (UTC))‎[move=sysop] (indefinite) (Edit warring / content dispute) (hist | change) (thank) 02:31, 10 December 2013 Mark Arsten talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States ‎‎[edit=autoconfirmed] (indefinite)‎[move=sysop] (indefinite) (Persistent vandalism) (hist | change) (thank) 20:00, 2 December 2013 Thingg talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States ‎‎[edit=sysop] (expires 00:00, 10 December 2013 (UTC))‎[move=sysop] (indefinite) (Edit warring / Content dispute) (hist | change) (thank) 21:28, 5 November 2013 Vsmith talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States ‎‎[edit=autoconfirmed] (indefinite)‎[move=sysop] (indefinite) (Persistent vandalism) (hist | change) (thank) 17:54, 2 November 2013 Mark Arsten talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States ‎‎[edit=sysop] (expires 21:54, 5 November 2013 (UTC))‎[move=sysop] (indefinite) (Edit warring / content dispute) (hist | change) (thank) 17:11, 30 October 2013 Bearian talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States ‎‎[edit=templateeditor] (expires 09:11, 31 October 2013 (UTC))‎[move=sysop] (indefinite) (Edit warring / content dispute: WP:RFPP) (hist | change) (thank) 00:35, 25 June 2010 NativeForeigner talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States ‎[edit=autoconfirmed] (indefinite) [move=sysop] (indefinite) (Move-protection, it got removed when testing out pending changes, restoring to previous state. using TW) (hist | change) (thank) 23:45, 24 June 2010 Fastily talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States ‎[edit=autoconfirmed] (indefinite) [move=autoconfirmed] (indefinite) (apparently pending changes is not working at the moment - feel free to revert me when it is) (hist | change) (thank) 17:07, 19 June 2010 Risker talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States ‎[move=sysop] (indefinite) (Wikipedia:Pending changes trial) (hist | change) (thank) 10:29, 1 January 2010 Graham87 talk contribs block moved protection settings from MediaWiki talk:United States of America to United States (MediaWiki talk:United States of America moved to United States: revert) (thank) 11:28, 2 October 2009 The ed17 talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States ‎[edit=autoconfirmed] (indefinite) [move=sysop] (indefinite) (Excessive vandalism) (hist | change) (thank) 20:13, 30 September 2009 The ed17 talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States ‎[move=sysop] (indefinite) (five months of semi, let's see if it'll be alright...) (hist | change) (thank) 23:40, 9 April 2008 Golbez talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States (please don't. it has had to be reprotected within hours every time. what you are basically saying is "have all the vandals left"? [edit=autoconfirmed:move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 23:14, 9 April 2008 Wassupwestcoast talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States (Five months have gone by. Let's see if the hordes have left. [move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 20:05, 18 November 2007 Golbez talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States (fascinating experiment [edit=autoconfirmed:move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 15:42, 18 November 2007 Mattflaschen talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States (has been protected for two+ months [move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 20:29, 11 September 2007 Tariqabjotu talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States (full protection unnecessary; Abtract blocked [edit=autoconfirmed:move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 19:27, 11 September 2007 Acalamari talk contribs block changed protection settings for United States (Edit war [edit=sysop:move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 21:49, 8 May 2007 Retired username talk contribs block protected United States (should be move protected [edit=autoconfirmed:move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 22:26, 15 April 2007 Centrx talk contribs block protected United States (Target of vandalism [edit=autoconfirmed:move=autoconfirmed]) (hist | change) (thank) 00:46, 15 April 2007 Centrx talk contribs block removed protection from United States (Try unprotection) (hist | change) (thank) 16:19, 11 December 2006 Golbez talk contribs block protected United States (let's not [edit=autoconfirmed:move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 18:32, 9 December 2006 Kungfuadam talk contribs block protected United States (let's try unprotecting... [move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 13:42, 30 October 2006 Raul654 talk contribs block protected United States (Not working [edit=autoconfirmed:move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 07:15, 30 October 2006 Majorly talk contribs block protected United States (trying full unprotection per user request [move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 18:11, 8 September 2006 Centrx talk contribs block protected United States (IP vandalism [edit=autoconfirmed:move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 15:33, 7 September 2006 Centrx talk contribs block protected United States (Trying unprotect [move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 15:40, 8 August 2006 RenamedUser jaskldjslak904 talk contribs block protected United States (Daily vandalism [edit=autoconfirmed:move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 21:16, 3 June 2006 King of Hearts talk contribs block protected United States (has been several weeks; give it a try [move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 12:58, 12 May 2006 Golbez talk contribs block protected United States (i've had enough of this [edit=autoconfirmed:move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 00:04, 9 May 2006 Pepsidrinka talk contribs block protected United States (been protected for 12+ days - unprotecting now [move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 14:01, 26 April 2006 Aaron Schulz talk contribs block protected United States (vandalism [edit=autoconfirmed:move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 13:12, 13 April 2006 Alhutch talk contribs block protected United States (been 5 days, give it a shot [move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 19:03, 8 April 2006 Aaron Schulz talk contribs block protected United States (IP vandals [edit=autoconfirmed:move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 13:30, 7 April 2006 SoLando talk contribs block protected United States (It's been protected since 31 March. Semi-P should be restored if heavy vandalism resumes [move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 22:17, 30 March 2006 Golbez talk contribs block protected United States (vandalism [edit=autoconfirmed:move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 04:30, 17 March 2006 Retired username talk contribs block protected United States (apparently has been protected for 2+ weeks, let's try unprotect [move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 10:45, 15 March 2006 Android79 talk contribs block protected United States (template indicates this is sprotected. remove protection and template if that's not the intent. [edit=autoconfirmed:move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 22:53, 2 March 2006 Splash talk contribs block protected United States (keep it brief on high-profile articles [move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 10:32, 28 February 2006 Woohookitty talk contribs block protected United States (vandalism [edit=autoconfirmed:move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 19:53, 8 February 2006 Katefan0 talk contribs block protected United States (Long enough [move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 19:53, 8 February 2006 Katefan0 talk contribs block protected United States (Long enough [move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 14:29, 8 February 2006 Katefan0 talk contribs block protected United States (lots of vandalism yesterday and today [edit=autoconfirmed:move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 18:46, 29 January 2006 Splash talk contribs block protected United States (that's enough for a high-profile article that's not in need of long-term protection [move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 19:51, 25 January 2006 Howcheng talk contribs block protected United States (persistent vandalism [edit=autoconfirmed:move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 17:37, 21 January 2006 Docu talk contribs block protected United States (long edit history (move) [move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 18:16, 19 January 2006 Katefan0 talk contribs block removed protection from United States (Rm; testing the waters) (hist | change) (thank) 16:29, 18 January 2006 Katefan0 talk contribs block protected United States (We've now, once again, reached the point where this article has been vandalized 12 times today. [edit=autoconfirmed:move=autoconfirmed]) (hist | change) (thank) 11:57, 14 January 2006 Katefan0 talk contribs block removed protection from United States (Kiddies should be gone for the weekend) (hist | change) (thank) 17:53, 13 January 2006 Katefan0 talk contribs block protected United States (Getting hit but good today; sprot for a few hours [edit=autoconfirmed:move=autoconfirmed]) (hist | change) (thank) 19:22, 12 January 2006 Splash talk contribs block removed protection from United States (been protected several days now (and no tag)) (hist | change) (thank) 14:20, 6 January 2006 Katefan0 talk contribs block protected United States (Persistent vandalism - sprot for a bit [edit=autoconfirmed:move=autoconfirmed]) (hist | change) (thank) 16:47, 5 January 2006 El C talk contribs block removed protection from United States (coeuple of hours belatedly, sorry) (hist | change) 13:27, 5 January 2006 El C talk contribs block protected United States (vandalism [edit=autoconfirmed:move=autoconfirmed]) (hist | change) 22:34, 22 December 2005 Splash talk contribs block removed protection from United States (i don't see the support for this on Talk:, and the history doesn't support the vandalism claims) (hist | change) (thank) 18:31, 22 December 2005 Brian0918 talk contribs block protected United States (as requested, semi-protecting this, one of the most vandalized pages [edit=autoconfirmed:move=sysop] [edit=autoconfirmed:move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 11:03, 22 December 2005 Splash talk contribs block protected United States (the history's not that bad, and poor standards of edit don't warrant protection [move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 10:33, 22 December 2005 Brian0918 talk contribs block protected United States (semi-protecting one of the most vandalized pages [edit=autoconfirmed; move=sysop] [edit=autoconfirmed:move=sysop]) (hist | change) (thank) 19:28, 15 December 2005 Ugen64 talk contribs block protected United States (let's avoid this problem shall we) (hist | change) (thank) 19:28, 15 December 2005 Ugen64 talk contribs block removed protection from United States (brion's fixed it) (hist | change) (thank) 19:21, 15 December 2005 Brian0918 talk contribs block protected United States (hist | change) (thank) 18:40, 14 December 2005 Brendanconway talk contribs block removed protection from United States (one main vandal is blocked) (hist | change) (thank) 18:39, 14 December 2005 Brendanconway talk contribs block removed protection from United States (one main vandal is blocked) (hist | change) (thank) 18:23, 14 December 2005 Brendanconway talk contribs block protected United States (Vandalised with male geinitalia) (hist | change) (thank) 04:30, 18 October 2005 Denelson83 talk contribs block removed protection from United States (Hopefully vandal has stopped) (hist | change) (thank) 04:23, 18 October 2005 Denelson83 talk contribs block protected United States (Protect for 15 minutes from persistent vandal) (hist | change) (thank) 16:50, 28 May 2005 Jpgordon talk contribs block removed protection from United States (No special reason for it to be protected.) (hist | change) (thank) 11:06, 27 May 2005 Ed Poor talk contribs block protected United States (to discourage graffiti) (hist | change) (thank)

El_C 23:41, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Armenia-Azerbaijan 3: Proposed decision mentioning you

Hi El C, in the open Armenia-Azerbaijan 3 arbitration case, a remedy or finding of fact has been proposed which relates to you. 

You are not directly affected by any proposed sanction; this is just for your information.
Your name appears on the page only because your warning of Olympian, Olympian's response to your warning, and your warning of ZaniGiovanni are mentioned in their respective "sanction history" sections.

Please review this decision and draw the arbitrators' attention to any relevant material or statements. Comments may be brought to the attention of the committee on the proposed decision talk page. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, ~ ToBeFree (talk) 21:51, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

I dunno, seems I can't even tell what month it is... El_C 03:40, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

World War II and the history of Jews in Poland: Arbitration case opened

Hello El C,

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/World War II and the history of Jews in Poland. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/World War II and the history of Jews in Poland/Evidence. Please add your evidence by April 04, 2023, which is when the first evidence phase closes. Submitted evidence will be summarized by Arbitrators and Clerks at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/World War II and the history of Jews in Poland/Evidence/Summary. Owing to the summary style, editors are encouraged to submit evidence in small chunks sooner rather than more complete evidence later.

Details about the summary page, the two phases of evidence, a timeline and other answers to frequently asked questions can be found at the case's FAQ page.

For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration.

For the Arbitration Committee,
~ ToBeFree (talk) 00:11, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Content Dispute on English Wikiquote, and block of user:Djm-leighpark

Hello, El_C. Sorry for this message.
I'm now a sysop on English Wikiquote. Today, User:DeirgeDel (user:Djm-leighpark) talked about some complex and messy disputes on our project that was origined both on English Wikipedia and English Wikiquote, they also tried to cite something about their block on enwp's UTRS. I tried hard to understand their dispute but it was really a long story.
Eventually, I failed. Can you tell me what lead them a block here, or do you wanna take a look for the dispute there?

FYI, q:Wikiquote:Administrators'_noticeboard#Consequences_of_failure_to_do_timely_administration and q:User talk:DeirgeDel#Wikiquote:Votes for deletion/Piet Emmer

Anyway, if this is hard enough to explain or take a lot of time, I'm inclined to recuse from this dispute. -Lemonaka‎ 11:19, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

I don't remember the details as this was a year ago. If you want, you could go through their talk page's history to find my block notice and piece it from that. Sorry, I'm not really interested in engaging them or their grievances on other projects. But if you think their disruption warrants them being blocked from all Wikimedia projects, you can file a request at m:Global locks. HTH. El_C 13:37, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Admin's Barnstar
	Thanks for the help! Layah50♪ ( 話して～! ) 06:59, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

For sure, Layah50, glad I could help. Cheers! El_C 07:02, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

You're not helping. Through flagrant abuse of your administrative powers by blocking a good contributor on the basis of allegations which you refuse to substantiate, you bring disgrace upon yourself and do great damage to Wikipedia. Shame on you. Display name 99 (talk) 19:45, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Well, that was random. Anyway, just noting that the above attack is unrelated to what I helped Layah50 with. Rather, this rant is about a p-block from Sept 2022, whose background can be reviewed @#Indefinite partial block from Andrew Jackson, Talk:Andrew Jackson. Display name 99, while you are free to request a 4th unblock request (noting failed unblock request 1, 2, 3), you're no longer welcome on my talk page. Please do not contact me again except for required notices. @Girth Summit: courtesy ping. El_C 20:10, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Template:Find sources protection

Just FYI that I upped the protection level on Template:Find sources to template editor even though you explicitly put it to extended confirmed even after it was added to talk header. I don't think extended confirmed is enough for any template used over half a million times. --Trialpears (talk) 03:31, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

No, obviously it wouldn't be enough. But as far as I'm able to recall, I upgraded it from ECP to TPROT, but then reversed myself, downgrading it back to ECP upon seeing that the transclusion count wasn't actually at the threshold. Which evidently is not the case now for whatever reason; or something else, I dunno. But doesn't matter, either way. El_C 03:59, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Meaning...

[49] Ha!Ha! Your guess was wrong. It doesn't mean lady, it means 'Penis'.. Akshaypatill (talk) 13:52, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

बाई! El_C 01:11, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

A couple of questions about paid editing

I have a few questions I would be very grateful if you could answer or give me pointers on, I won't include links or names in accordance with the outing policy. I've found a user who describes himself as a freelancer, who also has a website where he describes himself as such, marketing themselves (among other skill) as a "Wikipedia editor of over 10 years" with "high Wikipedia skills", is this considered paid editing? Are such resumé websites considered proof of paid editing? Where and how should I present this? (If I should present it at all) and thank you in advance - Kevo³²⁷ (talk) 17:19, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

I'm not really an expert on WP:PAID, but so long as they're not offering to sell their services for that, then it may be innocent enough. Personally, I don't need a resume, but if I did and I didn't care about my privacy, I could see myself mentioning something similar, among other skills. But it's all a bit abstract, and as they say: ___ is in the details. El_C 01:11, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Request for opinion

Hello EL C, I saw your response in admin's noticeboard for incidents, with regards to MOS: TERRORIST, I was wondering if you have time and interest to participate in this one as well. Thank you. (Sextus Caedicius (talk) 23:09, 27 March 2023 (UTC))

Sextus Caedicius, sorry, but I doubt I could spare the time for a deeper dive right now. Regards, El_C 22:15, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

No worries El, I was afraid the noticeboard wouldn't attract enough attention/involvement, but it did which was great. Cheers anyway, (Sextus Caedicius (talk) 23:09, 1 April 2023 (UTC))

Vikram Sampath

Hello, Now that full protection has expired on Vikram Sampath page, indef semi-protection should be restored. Mixmon (talk) 20:31, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for the reminder. Regards, El_C 22:15, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Request for semi protection lock

Hi El C, Can you please put a semi protection edit lock on the article 2023 Indian Premier League, Bholaa, K.G.F: Chapter 1 and K.G.F: Chapter 2. Frequent unregistered accounts destroy the content of the article and vandalize them. MNWiki845 (talk) 21:43, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

MNWiki845, actually, I'd rather you make protection requests at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection/Increase. Thanks. El_C 08:59, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

April songs

April songs

my story today

My story today is about the Alchymic Quartet, - I went away from DYK but it's the last one from last year. - The songs are about vacation, continued. - Psalm 83 waiting for you. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:46, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

Can you please check out RD: James Bowman (countertenor). It's not officially marked ready but has two supports. I was away so could only nominate yesterday, and today is "his" last chance, and I have rehearsal tonight ... --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:17, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Nevermind, he made it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:20, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

I loved to see Marian Anderson and her story of protest against discrimination by singing on Easter Sunday 9 April 1939 on the Main page yesterday. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:13, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

My story today, Messiah (Handel), was my first dip into the FA ocean, thanks to great colleagues. - a few pics added, one day missing --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:01, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Today is the 80th birthday of John Eliot Gardiner. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:59, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Please revert your change to RD and wait, - those that were there when you changed are all "on" for just a few hours (21:xx) - I'd wait until the first of them got 24 hours. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:33, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Wow, all six. I don't think I've ever seen that. Sounds good, I'll wait a day. Thanks for letting me know! El_C 07:42, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! I noticed because Sergio Rendine was just added and then on the penultimate position. - How about Psalm 83. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:54, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Oh, are we still doing that? Anyway, reports of my RD had been greatly X El_C 08:28, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

 Done. Wow, that is an aggressive Psalm! El_C 08:42, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Agree! Thank you! - Talking of fire, did you see the fire salamander in my recent pics? - Next Psalm 72 whenever you feel like it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:37, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for protecting Jessica Nabongo. I had been waffling over remaining an admin there because it had so few watchers and so much disruption, so being able to just go ahead and become an editor was very helpful. I've cleaned it up. In related news, while I was checking references it became clear that Woni Spotts almost certainly can be recreated. Valereee (talk) 14:44, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

For sure, Val, anytime. Nice to see you. Please feel free to let me know if any more problems surface. I actually didn't pick up on that specific rivalry (one-sided or otherwise) with Woni Spotts, it just looked like standard {{uw-npov2}} fare that has the article comment on its own editorial choices. So good looking out! Yours, El_C 18:43, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Oh, it looks like 2-sided. Apparently it's become a wide-sweeping war within the Black Travel Movement. Woman of "a certain age" with almost no online presence vs. young brand influencer determined to claim the crown. I'm on it, but yeah, IMO there's quite likely to be a bit of a kerfuffle when one or both women discover the recent changes. Valereee (talk) 18:53, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Ah I_C. Well, if you need me for any of that, drop me a line. I'll be around'ish. El_C 18:55, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Semi protection lock

Hello @El C I am kindly requesting you to put semi protection edit lock on the page of the current Prime Minister of Nepal Pushpa Kamal Dahal because users that have created new accounts are vandalizing the page so I am kindly requesting to please add semi protection edit lock. Sulav K Shetri (talk) 15:11, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Okay, Sulav K Shetri: Semi-protected for a period of 10 days, after which the page will be automatically unprotected. But next time, please post protection requests @Wikipedia:Requests for page protection/Increase. I'd rather my talk page not become a spillover location for that venue. Thanks. El_C 18:49, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Omar al-Bashir

Hello, do you believe it's still necessary to protect this talk page? You protected it around the time he was deposed, although the article itself has been unprotected since a few months later. 67.180.143.89 (talk) 03:04, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Unprotected. No, I just forgot about it. So thanks, good looking out. El_C 04:08, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Link Spammer

Continuedafter last block.--MCC214#ex umbra in solem 15:32, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Blocked – for a period of 2 years. I guess we double it. El_C 02:21, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello again!

Hello, it has been almost two years since you graciously defended my edits here. Strangely enough, the same user seems to be tracking my edits; they weighed in on another user's talk page today after an edit I made was reverted (and then restored), and once again they were pretty disdainful about it. I'm not sure why they'd even know to do that other than keeping tabs on my contributions page (and so I imagine they'll be reading this soon, too), but it doesn't seem like very good behavior? Not sure if it breaks any rules but given our last interaction I thought I'd give you a heads up. Thank you! 173.175.200.238 (talk) 05:36, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Huh, the 173.x IPs are strong this weekend! Erm, hi again IP. Indeed, it isn't the best behaviour, at least on the parts of @Estar8806 and Smuckola: Raladic's note that it was just not explained very well (single word "fluff" was a bit abstract) — seems reasonable enough. However... Estar8806, I'd like you to really take to heart the ethos in the essay Wikipedia:Don't revert due solely to "no consensus". Smuckola, in the talk page linked above, you write (in part): Also the IP editor said "clearing my talk page". You do not have a talk page whatsoever. Make an account — which makes no sense in addition to being oddly aggressive, First, the IP is not obliged to register an account on your say. And 2ndly, they do have a talk page, obviously. It's right there in their sig: 173.175.200.238 →(talk)←; not to mention that you yourself even edited it before (diff). I am formally warning you to stop WP:FOLLOWING 173.175.200.238. Thanks. El_C 07:48, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

I don't know where you got the impression anyone was following the ip, it was a dispute over one edit that we all resolved civilly.

And I don't know why the ip assumed the only way we could know of them making the change is by watching their contributions. That's wholly untrue. Ever heard of RTRC?

Estar8806 (talk) 11:26, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Also, I apologize in advance if that came off snarkier than it was meant to. Your right, I had not read the essay you had, so my intent was to follow WP:CYCLE, even if I perhaps verbalized that in an incorrect way.

And if the ip took my wording of my acceptance of the change as "disdainful", I apologize. That was not my intent. Estar8806 (talk) 12:15, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

It's not an impression, it's a fact. Smuckola—who is not you—is to stop following the IP. Whereas you are to treat each prospective revert, anywhere, according to its own merits. You can't invoke CYCLE with WP:SILENCE, nor do tools give you extra leeway (extra responsibility, if anything). Please reflect. El_C 12:36, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

I don't know why you think there was SILENCE, the edit had been reverted just an hour before.

Second of all, I never said anything about my reasoning being the fact there was 'no consensus', my reasoning was that there was a previously reverted edit with something I can barely call an edit summary (though I must admit in haste I may leave a less than accurate summary, which I'm sure we are all guilty of).

So again I was just facilitating the CYCLE and I apologize if anything else was inferred. Estar8806 (talk) 20:50, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

The point is that you should not be "facilitating CYCLE" for its own end. Neither WP:BRD (CYCLE) nor WP:ONUS are mandatory (only Consensus required is and it's used seldom) — they are both recommendations. Again, you need to only be reverting edits on their merits (i.e. substantive reasoning over made-up procedural ones).

So a revert with an edit summary reading: I disagree that the award list is "fluff" due to X ≈ valid. However, a revert with an edit summary reading: get consensus in advance, or an automated revert summary [50] ≈ invalid. And you edit warring with "Edit warring" in the edit summary [51] is not great, though at least you self-reverted 10 min later.

To sum up, I hope that this isn't how you treat new or unregistered users on the regular, because if so, then we have problem. It got resolved this time, largely because the IP happens to be a veteran editor and knew their way around, but you gotta watch for WP:BITE otherwise. Thanks. El_C 21:38, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

You're right. My reasons for the reversion may not have been the best, and my edit summaries were equally poor. Perhaps I should be a little less bitey as well. Cheers. Estar8806 (talk) 22:08, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Tamaz Somkhishvili

Thanks for protecting the page, but the paid material denigrating a persona, added from an anonymous IP address, remains on the page. What's more, on the discussion page, I have been threatened with blocking from an anonymous IP address. User talk:AlexanderVolkov123 I ask you to deal with the situation. As it stands now, the page does not conform to WP:NPOV. In the discussion, the moderators said that my version is more acceptable, but there are problems with the sources. Here is a reputable source, a big biographical article about the person in the Georgian Forbes [52] AlexanderVolkov123 (talk) 13:21, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Hey np AlexanderVolkov123. But if you do have a conflict of interest (WP:COI), whether to the extent of paid editing (WP:PAID), or in any other way whatsoever — you must disclose that in order to remain an editor in good standing on the English language Wikipedia. I'll post the standard disclosure ({{uw-coi}}) on your talk page, so please respond to it when convenient. If you do not have a conflict of interest of any kind, however, then you may ignore the IP's warnings. As for lacking the 500 edits, 30 days tenure (WP:500-30 ) to edit the page by virtue of the Russo-Ukrainian War (WP:GS/RUSUKR) restriction, you may submit edit requests (WP:ER) with any proposals for improving the page. Proposals which other, tenured editors may then add. El_C 18:09, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Colonial empires

Do you mind unblocking the page? I gave Wee Curry Monster irrefutable evidence proving that Israel is a country with colonial origins, whilst citing direct quotes from Zionists such as Theodor Herzl and Vladimir Jabotinsky stating the colonial nature behind the colonization of Palestine:

https://archive.org/details/TheCompleteDiariesOfTheodorHerzl_201606/TheCompleteDiariesOfTheodorHerzlEngVolume3_OCR/page/n187/mode/2up

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/quot-the-iron-wall-quot

https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/document/mideast/ironwall/07-zionrev.htm 2600:6C44:77F:6B48:C057:C961:AA35:3437 (talk) 07:20, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Irrespective of that argument, as noted in my protection summary, years ago the Arbitration Committee has put a restriction in place that limits that content to a certain tenure. Specifically, in order to be eligible to add such content, you'd need to register an account and then have that account reach a tenure of 30 days + 500 edits. Hope that explains things more clearly. Thanks. El_C 07:43, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

So, you're saying that regardless of whether or not the information provided is valid, the user who added the information is required to reach the 30 days + 500 edits tenure in order to count, right? 2600:6C44:77F:6B48:C057:C961:AA35:3437 (talk) 08:02, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Yes. For that topic area, only editors who reach that tenure are permitted to challenge what is or is not valid. El_C 08:04, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

I see. 2600:6C44:77F:6B48:C057:C961:AA35:3437 (talk) 00:09, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Regarding User talk:Karak1lc1k

It's rare that a quick unblock request isn't just a rant about how unfair everyone else is being, but it happens once in a while. The request is a little TLDR, but they take responsibility for their actions, admit to understanding that it was wrong, apologize for it, and have made assurances they will not repeat the action going forward. I'm inclined to grant the unblock request as a WP:ROPE last-chance situation. However, I wanted to confer with you as the blocking admin first. --Jayron32 17:44, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

• Thank User:Jayron32--and El_C, just to make this clear, I want to thank you for the original block, even though I'm also thinking that an unblock is earned. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 17:54, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
  • Same, FWIW. El C: Your block was well justified, but the unblock request also seems to show me that the user can be a productive member of the community. --Jayron32 17:58, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

@Jayron32 and Drmies: I replied here. Sorry, writing in haste. El_C 01:25, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Hey, you were in a rush refore, but it's been a week, and I'm looking for some more guidance. Would you or would you not accept the unblock request at this point? I'm on the fence, and some positive input, one way or the other, from you would really help. Thanks! --Jayron32 15:25, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

I can't decline it, obviously, but I am against it now, at least for the time being, rather than neutral. Their reply to Beshogur, who like them seems inclined towards the same ethno-national battleground, while not bothering to address anything else, including making their unblock request readable by adding paragraph breaks — that's a no from me. Something about the tone and tenor of that terse reply, and it being the sole one... does not inspire confidence. El_C 15:44, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

@El C: I don't know him actually. Even his friend blamed me because supposedly "I banned them". Beshogur (talk) 15:47, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

You say that, but your ideology aligns, and you were the only one to reflexively defend him without bothering to look more deeply — which double aligns. El_C 15:49, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

but your ideology aligns What do you mean? I don't even share same views with them on those certain Bulgar related articles. See [53]. I was saying to give him second chance as he put some apology message. That's it. I'm not even trying to enforce it. Block him or not, I don't care at all. Please don't align me with him. Beshogur (talk) 16:02, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

As in Turkish/Turkic ethno-national ideology, Beshogur. But okay, I won't, but it's quite the happenstance nonetheless. El_C 16:05, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

" non-native English speaker, my eyes just glaze over"

I am a native speaker of English, and my eyes glazed over too. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 15:35, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Mmm double-glazed! El_C 17:18, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

I'm a Bulgarian vandal

I admit it. Every time I read that, my mind launches into Cagney singing, "I'm a yankee-doodle dandy." Meh -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 16:11, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Two sub sections, I can do it! El_C 16:18, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Kudmali Language

Sorry for that. I tried changing from Kurmali to Kudmali. But it was mistakenly changed to the Wikipedia project page. However, how can I do it right now? Help me plz. Thank You. চিথারাই মাহাতো (talk) 11:10, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Hey চিথারাই মাহাতো. Next time you need help with a technical move, you can post a request @Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical requests. Cheers! El_C 09:14, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

GCB

GCB has been blocked by ArbCom as a sock of User:Jacurek. Finally, some progress. Jehochman ^Talk 01:20, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Diamond Princess (ship)

I was wondering, since it's been three years, if this article still needs protection, especially since most people have probably forgotten about this ship anyway and since Covid is not as bad as it was back in 2020. Thanks for your consideration. 173.167.177.193 (talk) 00:42, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Oh and also, I requested unprotection of the articles Burger Chef and Burger Chef murders, which you also protected. I will copy my RFPU request below.

Both articles were protected indefinitely three years ago after having been attacked by an LTA. What is unusual is that both articles were protected indefinitely (rather than temporarily) after having been attacked by only one or two accounts, both with previously clean protection logs. As a result, I think experimental unprotection should be tried to see if the troll is gone. 173.167.177.193 (talk) 00:56, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

IP, RE: Diamond Princess (ship), yeah, a lot of the ships were protected indefinitely, which this really prompts me to review all of them now. As I recall, the LTA was going for ships specifically, seemingly keeping a calendar with a timetable of protections' expirations, multiple times over, as well as finding new ones. However, the protection log of those new or newer ones would seem clean, even though they'd be part of that larger pattern.

RE: Burger Chef and Burger Chef murders — same larger pattern thing but more acute (the acute aspect for the above was that it was COVID, and even pre-DS and even pre-GS, to boot). Anyway, here, the LTA was targeting many, many burger, hot dog, etc., joints. I believe I protected over 100 of them in total. In some of the earlier iterations I recall the protections going something like this: 3 days, 2 weeks, one month, 3 months, 6 months, and after that indefinite for anything by that LTA.

I think a while back I've gone through the bulk of these (unprotecting), but some outliers might still remain. In any even, thanks for bringing this to my attention. The only page I can check updates on is my talk page, so reply here, if needed, as I'm unlikely to see pings regularly for the next little while. Cheers! El_C 02:19, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your response. Have a good day. 173.167.177.193 (talk) 02:25, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Big unprotection request

I found (a lot) more articles on ships that you protected during COVID that need unprotection. They are:

Thanks (sorry there are so many). 47.227.95.73 (talk) 22:32, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

Hey IP. Don't be sorry, this helps me. I also had a list in mind, but yours is better. I'm still testing the waters on the original. I was gonna wait till May, but may as well start now. So, I'm gonna do 5 at random, then mid / end of May do the rest if all is still well. If you or anyone else can help remind me to keep to the schedule, that'll be appreciated. Thanks again for your efforts! El_C 05:42, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Alright. Thanks! 47.227.95.73 (talk) 10:59, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Seems to be about that time, and I don't think anything major has happened with these articles. 47.227.95.73 (talk) 11:19, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Obscure Sandwich Article Protections

It's been 4 years, and I think Afghani burger and Fool's Gold Loaf and donkey burger are probably good to be edited by everyone. One guy 4 years ago edited them 1-2 times in a minute, which I'm not sure warranted the protections at all, though, since the edit content has been purged, I really couldn't say. But now, 4 years later, these pages could use all the editing they could get (especially the stub Afghani burger and donkey burger), and I think it's time to reconsider the protections. Bruhpedia (talk) 18:09, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

That said, something bad was clearly going on with that unregistered user. I found more linked IP addresses that had unviewable edits of topics like Nicky Hilton Rothschild, which heavily implies some pretty alarming antisemitism, and vulgar threats to other users on Wikipedia:Edit filter/False positives/Reports. However, as the edits seem to have been dispersed across pages, I'm still not sure protecting pages was especially helpful. Bruhpedia (talk) 18:25, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

All outstanding requests (ships) now done. RE: Sandwiches — Bruhpedia, yes, it involved hundreds of pages vandalized by that LTA at the time. As stated above, I thought I unprotected all of em years ago, but obviously missed a few. El_C 18:35, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Ruby Princess protection

I was editing Ruby Princess and noticed it is still under whitelock protection. Not to be confused with collision protection, which it does not have (they hit the dock kinda hard today). I don't have a view, since I don't really know the Australia Covid controversy. But it doesn't seem to have had any covid edits for two years... maybe it doesn't need protection any more? Cheers. Chris vLS (talk) 00:18, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Well, nothing about the Australia stuff for two years... they had a more Covid action last year... Chris vLS (talk) 05:58, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Unprotected. See above, Chris. I guessed we missed it. The article does seem to be, like, 80 percent WP:COVIDCT, but maybe it'll be fine. Please keep an eye, if you can. Cheers! El_C 08:31, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Will do, thanks! Chris vLS (talk) 21:04, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

ANI stuff

I've made a thread at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#SpaceX_Starship that involves you, as a protecting admin of the page. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 12:47, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

T-64 RPP

The page at RPP told me not to edit there directly, so hopefully posting here is an adequate solution. The specific edit made by this IP today [54] is identical to this one made earlier this year, from an IP range that has now been blocked from both the T-34 and T-64 articles, where this particular sock operates. Hope this is sufficient. Loafiewa (talk) 23:13, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Oh, I see. You didn't link the blocked /24 range, so I couldn't immediately see them having edited the article in question. You should be able to edit WP:RFPP/I#T-64 directly, though. Anyway, will block and protect. Thanks. El_C 23:30, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

That IP

The more I looked at their history, the worse it got. Acroterion (talk) 00:01, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Same. Holy shit! El_C 00:03, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

AE

Would it be possible for you to take a look at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Oriental Aristocrat? Thanks Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 04:09, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

K. El_C 04:16, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

"Do contact"

He means reach out just say, "HI". To have a lovely conversation, an exchange of ideas. The interpersonal relations thing. Happy to help. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 16:38, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

My English is, how you say, inelegant. El_C 22:19, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Mine too. Meh. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 23:54, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

"Thank you for clarifying me. Your message clarified me." Softlavender (talk) 01:13, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Happy Adminship Anniversary!

Wishing El C a very C happy adminship anniversary on behalf of the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! interstatefive  00:23, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks interstatefive! El_C 12:43, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Unprotection

Hi, a page, Cambodia, is just unprotected for a month and immediately reprotected. Perhaps you should unprotect the page to see if there is really much disruption, or the set protection should have only been for a period. I think the previous disruption is only temporary in that period and not that much. 117.1.119.120 (talk) 09:51, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

IP, it was protected for five years before then, so disruption resumed almost immediately. I also disagree with your assertion that there wasn't "that much" of it. In any case, it's protected indefinitely as a "perennial problem," like many (most?) country articles are. [Example:...is bordered by Thailand (←indef WP:SEMI) to the northwest, Laos (←not protected) to the north, Vietnam (←indef WP:ECP)]. Which is to say: I purposefully set the protection not to expire and have no intention on unprotecting it for the foreseeable. Thanks. El_C 12:43, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Looking at the protection log of the page, I see that there were only 2 protection occasions and both are time-set; the previous protection was supposed to expire in the year it was protected, 2018, but someone moved the protection from another page so the page was erroneously semi-protected for 5 years before this was realized and the page was then unprotected. While you can compare this with the article Thailand and its protection log, there are like 13+ time-set protection attempts before it was decided it was disruptive long enough to apply indefinite semi-protection, which is a lot more than this page, which has only seen 2 protection occurrences. Other countries' articles with indefinite semi protection also have many more trials of time-set protection as reading in the logs (Colombia, Bulgaria, Iraq, Serbia, Czech Republic, ...etc) before an indefinite semi-protection is warranted. At least, you can try to unprotect the article for 1 more trial and see if disruption is really as bad as those other examples or not. 117.1.119.120 (talk) 14:24, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

IP, I don't need to compare it. We are not counting protections as a strictly required metric. And the protection being left for years rather than months by mistake does not change from the outcome: very long protection ends → disruption immediately resumes. That said, if you feel you have a strong case for unprotection, you could take it to WP:RFPP/D (link to this discussion) to see what other admins have to say. El_C 15:22, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

2014 Brazilian general election

Hello. You turned down protection of this page a week or two ago because there was no talk page discussion. There is one now, but the IP is still reverting (their latest revert was after I pointed them to a previous discussion on images, to which they did not respond but just reverted again). Can the page be semi-protected now? It's clear the IP has no intention of stopping. Cheers, Number 57 15:39, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

May music

May songs

my story today

I had a good story on coronation day: the Te Deum we sang that day. And the following day we sang it for the composer ;)

I heard pleasant music today - did you know a string quartet with two cellos (and no article yet in English? - I nominated Soňa Červená for GA just to give her a bit more exposure.

Psalm 88? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:43, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

 Done. Nice, that's what we in the biz call a two cello remix. El_C 05:24, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

thank you, always learning - but what is "re-" in a new composition? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:16, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

From Remix: A remix (or reorchestration) is a piece of media which has been altered or contorted from its original state by adding, removing, or changing pieces of the item. Example from the Song spam: Sunny (original Papik Mix) vis-à-vis Sunny (Francesco Cofano Remix), where the remix is actually the superior track, because... dat bass. El_C 06:32, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

yes, I even knew dat, but Arensky's quartet is an original composition conceived that way, and I loved it: more sonourous low register, and the one violin standing out more. The viola had the first theme. I took the image to string quartet, and found that they list many varieties but not that one. Piece needs an article, but I'm busy with two women who recently died, one nominated for GA, the other not yet updated. - The next psalm missing is Psalm 72. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:24, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Oh I_C. Reorchestration, then? RE: 72 — 20 lines? Frwn. El_C 10:11, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

not sure, as it's an original composition - would Psalm 92 be more comfortable? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:24, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Pentecost was full of music, and my story today is that 300 years ago today, Bach became Thomaskantor, with BWV 75, writing music history. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:50, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

User:Qirtaiba

Do you think it might be wise to remove the link to his web site from his user page? It looks like a professional consultancy site at first, but it has child-related content. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:28, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Done per WP:UPNOT. At the very least the inclusion of this weblink on a userpage has nothing to do with improving Wikipedia. -- Euryalus (talk) 09:37, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:04, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you both! El_C 10:11, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Additionally, it might be worth revdelling Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Minor-attracted person (2nd nomination) from revisions 1155011353 to 1155094689, as it includes the same link as added by R alvarez02. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 16:23, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

LilianaUwU, while I believe the link should be removed from the front end of pages, I don't think that it qualifies for back end removal (WP:REVDEL), since it does not, as far as I'm aware, contain any illicit material, only advocacy. That said, I see that Euryalus has closed that AfD with a delete+salt outcome (←good close), so I'm content with leaving that decision to them and would not object if they were to go the revdel route (a legit position).

Please note also that only items appearing on the main WP:ARTICLESPACE actually get indexed by Google (I'm pretty sure), thereby addressing most of the potential WP:PROMO outside the editorial ecosystem. If, however, the spamming of that link were to be discovered elsewhere, then revdel definitely should be employed if only as a deterrent, possibly even escalating it to non grata As Fuck (i.e. WP:AF). Either way, thanks for your note and please keep me updated. Cheers! El_C 11:06, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Please note also that only items appearing on the main WP:ARTICLESPACE actually get indexed by Google — Nope, you have that back to front. By default all pages in all namespaces are indexed by web crawlers unless they are specifically excluded - the only namespaces where search engine indexing is disabled by default are user, user talk, draft, and draft talk.

In this case these deletion discussions wouldn't be indexed, because MediaWiki:Robots.txt instructs indexing bots to ignore deletion discussions, but as a general rule stuff in wikipedia space is indexed by google.

See WP:Controlling search engine indexing for more details. 163.1.15.238 (talk) 12:12, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the info, IP. I learned something new! El_C 12:25, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

No problem, glad it helped! 163.1.15.238 (talk) 15:43, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

• I pinged you to User talk:Qirtaiba regarding possible PAs and TPA, but then saw on ANI that you might not be seeing pings. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:06, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

• BMK, for the time being, best to just not engage with him. El_C 18:42, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

• Indeed. I've backed off. Thanks. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:28, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Template question

Hi, El C!! Hope you're doing well, and not letting the drama eat your lunch. I wanted to drop by and just say "hi" but figured while I'm here, why not try to get a little puzzle solved. Just curious...if a person wanted to edit/modify the various templates on this page, how would they edit those individual templates? For example, when I click on edit or quick edit, it just brings up more templates. Atsme 💬 📧 01:36, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

@Atsme That page is the template's documentation page, it shows various examples of usages of the template and the output they produce. To edit the template itself you need to edit the page Template:Template display.

The template is implemented using two #switch parser functions, one to select the image and one to select the message. To change the look of the "nodesktop" message you would change the |nodesktop=[[File:Desktop devices no.svg|55px|link=|alt=]] code at the top to change the image, and the | nodesktop = This template does ''not'' display in the desktop view of Wikipedia; it is <strong>mobile only</strong>. Read the documentation for an explanation. code at the bottom to change the message. 163.1.15.238 (talk) 15:42, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Thankyou, IP163!! Atsme 💬 📧 02:50, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Good to see you, Atsme. Oh drama is my lunch! (←please quote) Anyway, glad that IP editor answered your question (they're good!), I certainly wouldn't have been able to. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ El_C 18:40, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Life is good, and so is knowing you, Mr. Drama "is" your lunch! <-- quoted. I still enjoy learning new things here and there! ❤️ Atsme 💬 📧 19:47, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

ArbCom case

Hello, I have filed an ArbCom case involving your recent close thanks. Jack4576 (talk) 06:24, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

K. El_C 06:28, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi. I'm opening a fresh ANI as a first appeal instead. Thanks. Jack4576 (talk) 07:13, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Should be at @WP:AN, not ANI. El_C 07:15, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

OK, at WP:AN, thank you Jack4576 (talk) 07:25, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

NP, but I asked you at the beginning not to split the discussion, so let's keep to @User_talk:Jack4576#Topic ban imposed (or to the appeal itself) moving forward, as I originally intended. Thanks. El_C 07:28, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

I needed to post here to notify you of the appeal as per guidelines Jack4576 (talk) 07:36, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

"notwithstanding not insignificant" is a doozy of a phrase! CMD (talk) 10:00, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

ANI case

Hi El C, I'm just contacting you in your capacity as an admin for some advice on an ANI which is currently being held against me. I am a little concerned that the ANI has been advertised on FTN, when the main problem I have is with what I believe to be canvassing on that board.

I am not sure if this notification on there was justified, as it will almost certainly lead to a vote stack. My first question is whether there anything dodgy with the way this was done, or am I just going to have to deal with it?

My second question is that the origin of the dispute was a disagreement on an AfD page, which has attracted a much more diverse audience. Is neutrally notifying on that page that the ANI is ongoing legitimate, or would it be canvassing?

All the best

BNS Boynamedsue (talk) 08:38, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Kinda ironic dont you think that a user ranting left right and centre about CANVASSING should be asking for advice about the definition of CANVASSING. Oh how I laughed. - Roxy the dog 08:43, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, man who is up in ANI is being very careful about what he posts. It's a hilarious situation. Boynamedsue (talk) 08:50, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

@Boynamedsue: the post you linked to at FTN above does not advertise the ANI. That FTN post pertains to the AfD. Maybe this is a typo on your part? The FTN post is dated 19 May. The ANI was opened on 21 May, so that post could not pertain to the ANI. Regards ---Steve Quinn (talk) 20:51, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

You are quite right Steve Quinn, that is a mistake on my part. I thought the link on the older post was to the ANI discussion, as I noticed it after the ANI had opened. I think this might have happened because I had the ANI discussion open in another window. I've struck out the comment. Boynamedsue (talk) 21:16, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

@Boynamedsue: sorry to ping you again. My two cents - If you want to post a notice of the ANI at the Afd, then personally I don't have a problem with that. The AfD is perhaps tangentially related to the ANI. However, consider that the ANI seems to have mostly wound down and I think most of the issues have been resolved. Also, I don't know how well an ANI notification will be received at the AfD. Such a notification might elicit no response from AfD participants or it could result in some negative comments. Just be prepared if you choose to do this. ----Steve Quinn (talk) 22:09, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Boynamedsue, I don't think there is one-size-fits-all answer, as it would depend on context (i.e. the particulars of any given example}. El_C 10:53, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your feedback. Boynamedsue (talk) 16:18, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

June songs

June!

June songs

my story today

I like today's Main page, and here's why ;) - (DYK that we got filmed when performing the piece mentioned) -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:58, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Mordechai Rechtman: can you please add the Hebrew source for his death to the article? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:10, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, - he's on the Mai page now! - Last weekend was nice, class reunion a funny number of years after completing school, and the lovely park where I spent many Sundays as a child. Today's story is quite dramatic, there's a yt trailer to the hook. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:57, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks as always for the songs! I'm back. Yeah np and congrats. Btw, I'm usually available by email when away, so please don't hesitate! El_C 20:28, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! - Should I send you an email to take please care of Psalm 72? - Will upload more pics, but haven't seen them. Tasty ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:33, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

I updated from May to today ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:48, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Jörg Widmann is 50 today, and I began Stockholm pics, including reindeer toddler. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:09, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

I couldn't find the reindeer toddler — please link directly! Anyway, so I'm drinking iced coffee, but had to step out for a bit so was no longer iced. But I had no ice cubes. But I did have frozen strawberries. What an amazing disc🍓bery! El_C 14:42, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

My bad, I had prepared it to be uploaded, but didn't get to it - until today about the time you frowned, following goats, preceeding moose. Please try again. More to come. I was busy with three who died, including Gabriele Schnaut whom I saw twice, not Wagner and Strauss, but Bach and Weill. - Latest psalm needing Hebrew is Psalm 105. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:00, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

And now I can't stop, so tart! Nice, that reindeer toddler does seem acutely pettable. Psalm 105 is 45 lines! Eep. El_C 16:49, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

love it! - today: a woman caught by the iron curtain (improved with SusunW and GRuban), yesterday: the Mass in B minor, heard in concert then, three musical videos are out, and the rest of the vacation pics is now there. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:52, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

RPP

Thanks for protecting pages. I appreciate people who are typically more open to protecting pages rather than who just deny page protection just because they can. I would appreciate if you could also protect Jude Bellingham - I put in a request at RPP FYI. Thanks for what you do! Paul Vaurie (talk) 21:20, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Hey thanks Paul Vaurie, I appreciate the kind words. Looks like it's already been protected. Regards, El_C 04:07, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, I saw that. Maybe I misclicked, but I thought that I had asked for EC protection, although it is indeed already semi-protected. Paul Vaurie (talk) 04:10, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Oh, I didn't see the request, but regardless, we usually go with WP:SEMI first and only upgrade to WP:ECP if that doesn't work. Which is to say: a straight-to-ECP protection action needs clear and unambiguous reasoning, preferably with WP:DIFF evidence attached. El_C 04:22, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Alright, that makes sense. I think it was already protected at the time, but the disruptive editing has stopped and that's what matters. Thanks again! Paul Vaurie (talk) 04:24, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Np. Also, keep in mind that if the disruption comes from just one (possibly even two) confirmed account(s), we usually WP:BLOCK. Only if it's a few of em do we then protect. El_C 04:28, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

People of Assam

Thank you for protecting the page. Could you please restore it to the long-standing version? I am not sure what is WP:UNDUE as claimed by the anonymous editor. There already exists discussions in talk page. Chaipau (talk) 12:28, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Please note that the IP is in a range block for WP:DE [55]. Chaipau (talk) 13:12, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Chaipau, my editing the fully-protected page back to your version would go against the general ethos of m:The Wrong Version (the humorous tone of that page notwithstanding). As for the range block of all those namespaces, I'm not sure that has anything to do with that particular disputant (though you could ask the blocking admin about that). I still think an attempt to engage the article talk page by both of you, rather than trading insults in edit summaries, is the way to go. Though time will tell, I suppose. Good luck! El_C 21:07, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. I have started a section in the talk page:Talk:People_of_Assam#Edit_warring_on_Delancey.

Yes I agree my request was inappropriate. I apologize. Just to clarify---the 4 restorations were done by 4 different named editors and none of the restorations had insulting summaries.

Chaipau (talk) 22:23, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Np. I already replied there. Note that if they fail to engage after, say, several days, then they'd be viewed as having forfeited their position, at least until such time that changes. That said, calling someone a "vandal" when they raise policy objections, like UNDUE, is as much a personal attack as "cringe individual," so please keep that in mind moving forward. El_C 22:29, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. Thanks. Chaipau (talk) 22:51, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Roxy the dog ANI closure

A note regarding your recent closure of discussion at ANI.

1. Your comments indicate that you have very strong views on the matter and so you that makes you very WP:INVOLVED.
2. From my reading, you have stated that you rushed to close discussion just minutes after the minimum to make sure that you could personally control the result - saying "And as for new proposals, like an WP:IBAN, etc., I think that ship has sailed for now".
3. You engaged in rhetorical flourishes about righting great wrongs and you admitted that the pre-closure consultation was specifically to "gauge the views of trans and non-binary editors".

The closure was rushed, the extended comments were unfortunate, and the unorthodox "pre-closure consultation" was only to hear from “trans and non-binary editors”.

Lightburst (talk) 15:20, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

• El C, I'm not here to contest the findings of the close. I believe your conclusion for an indefinite community ban was correct. I will say that you did not address directly whether or not the community decided for a GENSEX topic ban to be concurrent with the community ban. This was a portion of the discussion that probably had the clearest consensus, and I imagine any potential successful appeal for Roxy the dog would include him not being in the GENSEX area. I wish you had included that in your close so we don't have to stipulate it in any future appeals by Roxy. Thank you. Iamreallygoodatcheckers ^talk 18:38, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Lightburst, I do not view myself as INVOLVED for this contentious topic area any more so than any of the other ones I regularly attend to. Nor do I view it as having exceptional "rhetorical flourishes." I also am unsure why you'd conflate me wanting to hear "especially" from a targeted group to me only wanting to hear from them. Finally, I outlined my reasoning for closing that complaint on the 72-hour marker. So if you still consider my close to be subpar, you have the option to escalate the WP:CLOSECHALLENGE to WP:AN with the aim of seeing it overturned.

Iamreallygoodatcheckers, that was left to the appeal by design, which I honestly do not expect to be much of a hindrance. But at any rate, the reason for that was so that RtD could possibly engage in a constructive dialogue about the subject matter, as was noted in User talk:Roxy the dog#Community ban. Also, note that GENSEX being a contentious topic means that any admin could impose sanctions relating to it singularly, though again, my sense is that it is unlikely to be much of a problem, either way. Hope that clears things up. El_C 20:58, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Why does every difficult and detailed closure have to be contested nowadays? Cheers, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 12:34, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Ban template

• Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Archive353#Note_from_blocking_admin

I think you're probably aware of the edit-warring and whatnot that happened. I'm merely noting - what I said here - if you, as the blocking admin, wish to revert/remove the ban template from their talk page, obviously please feel free. - jc37 11:00, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, jc37, I left that open-ended for a Roxy the dog (←ping'd and now ping'd again just to be sure; ping me, in turn, if answering in the affirmative, Roxy) to decide, so maybe they will. As mentioned, ultimately, I don't think ban tags are all that important (for non- LTAs, Socks, etc., at least). But I also don't believe in auto-tagging banned content editors, either, for the reasons stated (i.e. potential badge of shame / discouragement). I think that should be left to the discretion of the enforcing admin. No big deal, though, regardless, and thanks for reaching out. I appreciate it. El_C 02:16, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

And someone else has reverted the template - though I guess they didn't know the section at WP:BAN was changed to #User pages. I'm stepping away from the discussion(s), per Wikipedia_talk:Banning_policy#Note.

This is just merely a note, in case you haven't seen what has been transpiring in the interim. I thought you should have a head's up, in case this heads back to AN or AN/I.

All this aside, I do hope you are having a good day today : ) - jc37 06:31, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

No, I was unaware that that discussion was still going (which makes sense, I suppose), though I did catch some of its earlier iterations. Thanks for letting me know, though. I'm not really around for the next little while, but regardless, I don't really have much to add on the subject, nor any objections to anyone or anything as far as the specifics here. Best wishes, El_C 08:39, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Qirtaiba-- UTRS

Let's just say user sees and processes information in a different way than you and I. Neither Yamla nor I wanted to touch that thing. Primefac suggested sending it to the WMF people. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 02:35, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

No comment. El_C 07:09, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

another sock here

Dear El C. I see you have protected previously the page of Tamaz Somkhishvili from editing by new users, but the sock of AlexanderVolkov123 (here it was clearly stated and proved Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/JeILoenita as well as on Russian wikipedia [56]) again spams the page with blatant promotion and undisclosed paid editing. Tsans2 (talk) 12:49, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

Tsans2, I don't understand what you're asking me to do, or even which specific ("another sock") user/s you're referring to. Feel free to just link to the account/s directly, that would be simplest. El_C 14:11, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

They're talking about User:AlexanderVolkov123 (and they're almost certainly correct), but that account hasn't edited for five weeks. Black Kite (talk) 14:15, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

Is it, though? Because they write the sock of AlexanderVolkov123, so I'm still unsure. El_C 14:25, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

Hero

I knew there was a reason you were willing to put up with the bullshit that came with nominating me. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:11, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

When editors cometo pointless blowsdon't forgetto sign your closeBurma-shave _signed, Rosguill ^talk 15:13, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

Indeed, big payoff! El_C 16:50, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

Rosguill, I'm a failure. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:01, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

AlisonW case request accepted

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/AlisonW. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/AlisonW/Evidence. Please add your evidence by June 30, 2023, which is when the evidence phase closes. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 23:51, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

Edit warring

Tamaz Somkhishvili's page has been in a war of edits by Tsans2's user. It is suspected that this account was ordered to blacken the persona by Wikibusiness. Specifically the addition of these edits ([57][58]). As well as a Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Kolburor request from MER-C. Mykytal (talk) 14:05, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Blocked indefinitely: User talk:Tsans2#Block. El_C 15:00, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

El_C I would like to draw your attention. After Tsans2 account was blocked on June 22nd the user JeILoenita who is mentioned in the Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Kolburor and who created Tamaz Somkhishvili's page [59] returned on June 23rd after a two-month absence [60]. Tamaz Somkhishvili's page has been secured and it can be edited by users who have 500 edits. From 23 to 28 June user JeILoenita actively edits the pages to reach 500 edits and on 28 June he edits the Somkhishvili page again [61]. Mykytal (talk) 09:12, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

Edit wars at Tamaz Somkhishvili

Hello,

There seems to be an edit war at Tamaz Somkhishvili, which you semi-protected recently. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 23:10, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi. You are mistaken. It is done, at least for the time being (see above). El_C 23:13, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Sorry. I misread the history. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 23:20, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

List of progressive rock artists

Hi El C, I am confused by your entry in the block log at List of progressive rock artists

12:17, 21 February 2022 El C talk contribs configured pending changes settings for List of progressive rock artists [Auto-accept: require "autoconfirmed" permission] (Addition of unsourced or poorly sourced content)

This doesn't seem to have an expiry date, so I assume it is indefinite, but a new account has just edited the page. What is the current position? - Arjayay (talk) 20:52, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Hey. So pending changes (WP:PC) is the lowest level of protection. Arguably, it isn't even really protection, at least in the normal sense, since IPs and non-confirmed accounts indeed are able to edit articles subject to it. However, those edits receive limited visibility (IIRC including indexing by Google), at least until approved by a pc reviewer (a perm you yourself have available, were you unaware?). Anyway, generally, pc is meant to prevent disruptive changes from falling through the cracks in low or intermittent -traffic articles (i.e. those changes pending review). El_C 22:00, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

My bad, I understand PC protection, but I didn't see that the edits had been accepted by another editor, before I deleted them for non-compliance. However, this doesn't answer my question about duration - I thought all protections had to have a defined timescale? even if it is indefinite? am I wrong? - Arjayay (talk) 22:08, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure what it is you're asking me, but some pages are protected indefinitely (a duration which by its nature is undefined), just like some users are blocked indefinitely — depending on need. The protection template would have looked like: {{subst:rfpp|pc|indefinite}} → Pending-changes protected indefinitely. El_C 22:16, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

I am well aware of that, but the protection period usually appears in the block log e.g. (expires 20:50, 25 September 2018) or (indefinite). In this instance, as shown in the extract from the block log I reproduced above, there is no such period given, hence my original question "This doesn't seem to have an expiry date, so I assume it is indefinite" ? - Arjayay (talk) 22:25, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Oh, I see what you mean. Yes, indefinite. Its log is separate from the protection log, which has always been a little wonky. El_C 22:31, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks - Arjayay (talk) 22:35, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Karim Benzema - indef semi protection

Hello, random I know but I remember being on Benzema's page when you asked someone to remind you to re-instate the indefinite semi protection level when the current one expires, I think there were a lot of pesky edits. Just reminding you while I remember to do this as I seem to recall you asking this! PeachyBum07 (talk) 17:23, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Hey. Indeed I did, PeachyBum07, but remind me on Jul 7 when it expires, because I probably won't remember by then (though stranger things have happened). Cheers! El_C 19:02, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

@El C: Here's your reminder! Tollens (talk) 21:37, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for the reminder, Tollens, I appreciate it. El_C 08:33, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Pageant help

Can you look at the recent history of Miss Teen USA 2023‎ and tell me if there's anything I should do beyond this and this? I don't want to be the one edit warring, so I have not reverted again. Should I be requesting the page be added to the WP:GS/PAGEANTS roster? ☆ Bri (talk) 21:49, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Blocked indefinitely: User talk:Peneid#Indefinite block. El_C 08:26, 8 July 2023 (UTC)