Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history

Please add requests for MILHIST participation to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history/Requests for project input. This includes requests for comment, requested moves, articles for deletion, and more.

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Summary of Military history WikiProject open tasks watch · edit · full list News and announcements The 2024 coordinator election has begun with voting open until 29 September. The September newsletter is now available. Editors are advised that Featured Articles promoted before 2016 are in need of review, if you had an article promoted to Featured status on or before 2016 please check and update your article before they are listed at FAR/C. Current discussions No major discussions are open at the moment Featured article candidates Battle of Saipan • German atrocities committed against Soviet prisoners of war • The Motherland Calls • Battle of Lake Providence • Jochi • Yugoslav torpedo boat T6 • Robert Poore • Chagatai Khan Featured article review Byzantine Empire • Edward I of England • Northrop YF-23 • Middle Ages • Thomas C. Hindman • Isaac Brock • Pre-dreadnought battleship Featured picture candidates Thorsten Nordenfelt A-Class review Henry Biard • Miyoshi Nagayoshi • Ernest J. King • Lockheed YF-22 • SPARS Peer reviews Henry Clay Work • Charles the Bold • 1939 Liechtenstein putsch • Sher Shah Suri • Rwandan genocide • Battle of Sark Good article nominees Aérospatiale SA 330 Puma • 1864 Washington Arsenal explosion • Felek al-Din Dündar • Roswell incident • Mohammad Shah Qajar • Gubir shootdown • Eleanor of Castile • Soldiers' and Sailors' Arch • Northrop B-2 Spirit • Battle of Ekiokpagha • Simon Stuart (general) • 170th Rifle Division (Soviet Union) • Dabney Coleman • Benin Air Force • Battle of Mosul (2016–2017) • Crusading movement • Battle of Thorgo • Jarrett Robertson • Tel al-Sultan attack • Charles Keating IV • Sack of Delhi (1757) • Black and Tans • Diaspora Revolt • Peruvian cruiser Lima • Castlereagh–Canning duel • Ottoman minelayer Intibah • Ottoman destroyer Yarhisar • Piri Reis • Eunus • Patrick J. Ryan (chaplain) • George Preece • Francis L. Sampson • HMS Regulus (1785) • Spanish Christian–Muslim War of 1172–1212 • Italian Campaign of 1796–1797 Good article reassessments Battle of the Yarmuk • Battle of Plataea • Siege of Szigetvár • Mehmed II's Albanian campaign • Manley Power • USS Texas (BB-35) • George W. Bush Articles that need... work on referencing and citation (148,536) • only work on referencing and citation (43,241) • work on coverage and accuracy (123,867) • only work on coverage and accuracy (19,904) • work on structure (31,876) • only work on structure (361) • work on grammar (8,176) • only work on grammar (46) • work on supporting materials (32,944) • only work on supporting materials (1,337) • assessment (3) • assessment as lists (7) • project tags fixed (2) • assessment checklists added (0) • assessment checklists completed (6) • task forces added (5) • attention to task force coverage (655)

Requests for project input

Talk:1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight RfC

There's a discussion at Talk:1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight#RfC_–_In_the_article_section_about_"Haifa",_should_the_following_paragraph_be_added? about whether specific prose attributed to Benny Morris should be added to 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight. Editors are invited to participate. TarnishedPath^talk 07:18, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

FAC in need of attention

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Battle of Lake Providence/archive1 could use attention from interested reviewers. Hog Farm _Talk 00:13, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Seeking opinions

Please have a look at my proposal here: Talk:List of World War II flying aces#Merge of two lists. Thanks MisterBee1966 (talk) 12:04, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Vilyeyka#Requested move 3 September 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Vilyeyka#Requested move 3 September 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 01:27, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Horatio Nelson, 1st Viscount Nelson#Requested move 5 September 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Horatio Nelson, 1st Viscount Nelson#Requested move 5 September 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. reading beans 01:21, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Manley Power

Manley Power has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 18:41, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for George W. Bush

George W. Bush has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 18:06, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for USS Texas (BB-35)

USS Texas (BB-35) has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. voorts (talk/contributions) 23:40, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

New user making lot of Indian MH articles

While partolling new articles, I came across a new editor who has been making a lot of Indian military history articles on events that are not familiar to me (some seems small).

I have seen editors redirect some of these these articles to larger Wikipedia articles on Indian military history, which makes me wonder if they are making excessive individual articles. They have written a lot of articles in a very short time, some of which are: Maratha Plunder of Mughal Territory, Sheo Bhatt's Invasion of Bengal, Siege of Barabati fort, Simhana's Southern Expansion, Capture of Ahmedabad, Battle of Nesari, Battle of Medinipur, Raghuji's Conquest of Orrisa, Battle of Belavadi.

Would be great to get input from MH editors who are familiar with this topic area. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:34, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

I have a feeling that another new editor who is also making a lot of new Indian MH articles, such as Battle of Malthan, and who writes in the same subject area and with the same style is connected to the one above. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:43, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

We now have niche articles such as Night Attack on Shaista Khan (with a lot more created since). Would be great to have the MH project row in here on whether these articles are useful? thanks. Aszx5000 (talk) 21:13, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Both these users are the subject of active SPI requests. If you could keep an eye on the articles in the meantime that would be highly appreciated. I'm not sure who we have in the Indian content realm who could take a look at them purely from a content perspective, Matarisvan perhaps? Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 21:44, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

@Pickersgill-Cunliffe, I will have a look and post my comments soon. Matarisvan (talk) 08:34, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

@Pickersgill-Cunliffe, Matarisvan, and Aszx5000: I have found significant close paraphasing in one article, Battle of Nesari:

CLOP analysis

Article from article creation Source link In this battle, Shivaji mourned the loss of his energetic commander-in-chief, Prataprao Gujar. Shivaji had previously blamed Prataprao for allowing Bahlol Khan to escape at the Battle of Umrani. Stung by this criticism, Prataprao rashly attacked Bahlol Khan's camp at Nesari on February 24, 1674. Following Prataprao's death, Hambirrao Mohite was appointed as the Maratha commander-in-chief in April 1674. Prior to this, Prataprao’s second-in-command had led the army in raiding the surrounding Bijapur territories. Meanwhile, Bahlol Khan was pursuing Anandrao, with the Mughals under Diler Khan joining him. Narain Shenoy, the British agent, described the situation in a letter dated April 4, 1674. Anandrao , meanwhile, raided the city of Pench, located eight leagues from Bankapur, which was part of Bahlol Khan’s jagir. Anandrao returned with a large haul, including three thousand oxen loaded with goods... During the battle, Khizr Khan’s brother, who was Bahlol Khan’s cousin, was killed. Anand Roy looted the entire army, capturing five hundred horses, two elephants, and other valuables. Bahlol Khan and Khizr Khan fled the scene. Anandrao, after leaving his spoils with Shivaji, returned to Balaghat to continue his raids. In this battle, Shivaji had to mourn the loss of his energetic commander-in-chief Patraprao Gujar. He had blamed Prataprao for allowing Bahlol Khan to escape in the battle of Umrani. Stung to the quick, Prataprao rashly fell upon the camp of Bahlol Khan at Nesari on 24 February 1674. He was succeeded by Hambirrao Mohite as commanderin-chief of the Marathas in April 1674. Even earlier, Prataprao’s second-in-command had rallied the army for raiding the surrounding Bijapur territory. Bahlol Khan was in pursuit of Anandrao. The Mughals under Diler Khan too joined Bahlol Khan. Here is a graphic description given by Narain Shenoy, the agent of the British, in his letter of 4 April 1674. Anand Roy (Anandrao) passing much inland robbed a city called Pench, eight leagues from Bankapur, which city belongs to Bahlol Khan’s jagir, from whence he returned well-laden with three thousand oxen laden with goods... In said battle fell a brother of Khizr Khan, cousin of Bahlol Khan, and Anand Roy robbed the whole army and brought five hundred horses and two elephants and other things; Bahlol Khan and Khizr Khan fleeing away. Anand Roy on his return* leaving his booty with Shivaji, is gone again to Balaghat to rob more towns.”

I have requested G12 speedy deletion; it would be worth checking the user's articles for more such examples. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:03, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

@AirshipJungleman29, @Aszx5000, @Pickersgill-Cunliffe, I looked through the articles and they are notable with proper sourcing. I see that both users are under investigation at SPI, and I'm new to this process so I'm guessing that all articles created by a SP have to be deleted. However, I think an indef block for the SPs would be enough without deletion of the articles since they are independently notable. Waiting for the comments of the users tagged above. Matarisvan (talk) 14:23, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Mehmed II's Albanian campaign/1

The sources used in the article are questionable. It is difficult to assess whether this is not a hoax. Jacek555 (talk) 14:28, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

@Cplakidas: Do you happen to have any knowledge on this topic? Ed ^{[talk] [OMT]} 06:58, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Not my main area of expertise, but passingly familiar. I will have a look. Constantine ✍ 07:26, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

@Cplakidas: Thanks for weighing in there. I figured it was a stretch for you, but I couldn't think of anyone with a closer specialty! Ed ^{[talk] [OMT]} 21:06, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Convoy ON 154 tabulation format question

What do I need to do to get the title of the table here [1] to be on the same line as the first line of text to its left? Thanks Keith-264 (talk) 07:57, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

@Hohum: floatright, thanks. Keith-264 (talk) 14:00, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Comments requested on possible Fort Riley article improvements for GA

Comment from article talk page copied here for greater exposure for request for comments. Donner60 (talk) 03:59, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

The article appears to now have all the material referenced per Donner60's recommendations. I've also made a few other changes, such as improving and expanding the infobox. Hopefully it now meets B-class.

I'm hoping to also eventually bring up the article to GA-status soon, so any comments on how this might be done I would appreciate. I have been looking at the GA-class article "Loring Air Force Base" for guidance, as I cannot find any active US military bases with GA-class status. Some thoughts about possible improvements:

• The vast majority of the information from the United States Cavalry School section is listed elsewhere and redundant. Integrate what isn't into the "History" section and then delete the section.
• Create a section similar to the Loring AFB article's "Base culture and civilian life" section. It could cover several topics, including "Irwin Army Hospital" and "Fort Riley museums" sections. I would also like to elaborate on the general amenities and facilities available on the base, and provide a brief overview of the six functional areas, which include the Main Post, Camp Funston, Marshall Army Airfield (MAAF), Camp Whitside, Camp Forsyth, and Custer Hill.
• Perhaps some image improvements, such as placement, adding some photos (I added File:Fort Riley Henry Gate 2019.webp to Commons, which I think would do well in the article), and better placement of the ones that are there (more alternating which side of page they are on).

This is my first GA-class article on any topic, and it may be the only GA-article for an active US military base, so any guidance or advice would be appreciated. Thanks! Wikipedialuva (talk) 20:00, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

I commented on the article talk page. Donner60 (talk) 03:40, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Battle of Nicosia Airport

An editor created this article from Military operations during the Turkish invasion of Cyprus#23 July 1974. I can't find any reference to a "Battle of Nicosia Airport" in any sources but I thought I would bring it here for review. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:38, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

I agree that there seems to be not one mention of that battle in any book listed on Google Books, which raises some notability concerns. If those can be surmounted, I'd suggest at least starting a requested move to a descriptive name, perhaps following the guidance at WP:NOYEAR. I also noticed that this seems to be an article on Simple English as well (simple:Battle of Nicosia Airport). Ed ^{[talk] [OMT]} 21:17, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

I redirected it back to Military operations during the Turkish invasion of Cyprus#23 July 1974, where this incident is covered, but the creator reverted it. I told them that I could find not reference to a "Battle of Nicosia Airport" anywhere and that he was straying to OR territory but hey were not for turning. Helpful that you found the same outcome. Aszx5000 (talk) 09:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

I left a comment over at Talk:Battle of Nicosia Airport, tagged a few unreliable sources, and added the correct attribution templates because it turns out that a chunk of this article was copied from Simple English Wikipedia. The input of anyone else in the project would be welcomed, especially if you can show that the topic is notable. Ed ^{[talk] [OMT]} 17:09, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Somali Armed Forces

Dear Milhist editors, MajidApdalla has consistently been trying to insert material not supported by reliable facts at Somali Armed Forces and Somali Air Force. I have been trying to remove his rather unsupported claims of "26 active aircraft in the Somali Air Force" etc and replace them with cited WP:RELIABLE sources but he has continued to remove my text. Please feel free to review my edits and make any amendments you wish.

I would also like to draw editors' attention to the edit records at these two articles and the warnings I have placed on this editor's talkpage. Buckshot06 (talk) 04:22, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

I added the following after your recent talk page comment on Somali Armed Forces and as a Recent Information section on the talk page of Somali Air Force, FWIW: :As information: From https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/somalia/#military-and-security The World Factbook Page last updated: September 24, 2024 "Military and security forces: Somali National Armed Forces (SNAF; aka Somali National Defense Force): Land Forces (Somali National Army or SNA), Somali Navy, Somali Air Force; Ministry of Internal Security: Somali National Police (SNP, includes Coast Guard and a commando unit known as Harmacad or Cheetah); National Security and Intelligence Agency (includes a commando/counterterrorism unit) (2024); note 1: the Somali Navy and Air Force have only a few hundred personnel, little equipment, and are not operational; in early 2024, Somalia signed an agreement with Turkey to build, train and equip the Somali Navy. Donner60 (talk) 05:01, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Zhou-class SSN, calling our submarine experts

The lead boat of a new class of Chinese PLAN SSN, with one of the X-shaped (rudders?) astern, sank in dock last year, the papers are reporting. We have nothing more than a redirect to Category:Nuclear submarines of the Chinese Navy however. Could I ask the editors who often write submarine articles, even if they focus on RN and USN, to put their heads together and create a short stub? Would be very helpful. An obvious workspace would be Talk:People's Liberation Army Navy Submarine Force. Buckshot06 (talk) 11:07, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

I've started Draft:Zhou-class submarine, but I'm not 100% confident that at this stage it's detailed enough to go into mainspace. Some basic specs or goals of the programme would help, but I've not been able to find any info on that. Too bad my latest copy of Janes Fighting Ships is only from 2010. Loafiewa (talk) 16:57, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Great start!! I've made some additions and copied in H I Sutton's page. Buckshot06 (talk) 20:17, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Infobox of the Dutch–Portuguese War

Can somebody check in on the discussion on the infobox of the Dutch-Portuguese War? There has been a lot of editing on it recently by editors who argue that the infobox should also display the territories Portugal retained, while I argue for the layout current infobox. DavidDijkgraaf (talk) 16:58, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

USS Texas (BB-35) A-Class reappraisal

Reposted from coordinator talk page for greater coverage. Donner60 (talk) 01:10, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Just like the Texas herself, I believe that it's time to bring this neglected 15 year-old A-class article to dry dock for repairs. There are several issues (article version):

• A1: The citation style is inconsistent. There are refs (including some bare URLs) mixed in with {{sfn}}s. Some claims are cited to irreputable sources, such as YouTube videos (e.g., ref 71) and primary sources (see all 18 references tagged with {{third-party inline}} as of Sept. 2012). There's also a valid {{failed verification}} tag from Nov. 2012 and three valid citation needed tags (oldest Jan. 2023). Additionally, all but one of the nine footnotes (ref group A) lack inline citations.
• A2: The article goes into unnecessary detail in that it relies on primary sources. It also lacks relevant detail in that the 2022 dry docking section hasn't been updated since April 2024. Additionally, given the sourcing issues, the article may not be factually accurate.
• A3: The service history section is well-organized, but the museum section has several sub-sections with three short paragraphs mixed in with much longer sub-sections. Both could also use years in parentheticals in the subheadings.

I will be bringing these concerns to GA reassessment as well. Best, voorts (talk/contributions) 01:23, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

I've nominated this for GAR as well: USS Texas (BB-35) (nom). voorts (talk/contributions) 01:50, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Donner60 (talk) 01:10, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:2024 Haret Hreik airstrike#Requested move 21 September 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2024 Haret Hreik airstrike#Requested move 21 September 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Reading Beans 06:20, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Capitalization of "tab" and "badge"

Having stumbled upon Tabs of the United States Army (and learning that these insignia are even called tabs), I noticed with some annoyance that the word "tab" was inconsistently capitalized in that article, sometimes as "tab" sometimes as "Tab". I was pretty confident that, when talking about tabs in general, we should use lower case. It's in no case a proper noun then. The problem was in usages like "Airborne Tab" or "Special Forces Tab", as if that's a proper noun as an official title of the thing. I looked at the main US Army source promininently used in that article, AR 670-1, and this Wear and Appearance of Army Uniforms and Insignia document does not use caps for the word tab, even when referring to "the airborne tab".

Badges are trickier, apparently, because the capitalization in AR 670-1 varies. Section 21, for example, leaves "badge" lowercase, as in:

• "...who have been awarded the combat infantryman badge, the expert infantryman badge", top of p.49 (PDF-page 57) or
• "...have been awarded the corresponding Parachutist or Air Assault badge", lower down on that same page.

Section 22, meanwhile, seems to cap more eagerly, as in

• "...affixed to the Parachutist Badge and the Military Free Fall Parachutist Badge", p.52 (PDF-p.60)
• "...or Naval Qualification Badges such as the Naval aviation warfare specialist" p.54 (PDF-p.62)

That section also caps "Presidential Medal of Freedom" and "Medal of Honor", with which I take no issue, but also capitalizes "Soldiers", as in "next of kin of Soldiers who lost their lives", e.g. at the top of p.51 (PDF-p.59). The 2nd page of the PDF also uses "...authorizes female Soldiers who are...", which I see as just wrong.

But based on this (shaky?) evidence in AR 670-1, and encouraged by the fact that Ranger tab already had a lowercase title and that other sources I quickly surveyed tended to not cap, I went about standardizing on lower-case usage, not only within Tabs of the United States Army, but with the titles and content of our other tab articles. Ranger tab, for example, had mixed-use (mostly "Tab"); other articles (Ranger Challenge Tab and President's Hundred Tab), were all "Tab".

I tried "fixing" the last article, after moving (with redirects) what I could, but Special Forces tab already exists as a redirect to Special Forces Tab. My "bold clean-up" is now stalled at Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical requests#Contested technical requests. My question (finally!! is, what style policy is appropriate for article names and references to this kind of insignia?

I've found a fairly recent move discussion at Talk:Ranger tab#Requested move 10 February 2024, with arguments in favor of "Ranger tab". However, the wide use of "Tab" (even months later on that article) makes me wonder what consistent usage we want. Thanks for your time and any input you can give. — JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 11:16, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Source request

Hello all. Just wondering if anyone owns, or might be able to access, a copy of Breaker Morant: The Final Roundup (ISBN: 9781445659657). If so, if would help expand a FA candidate. Cheers in advance. AA (talk) 14:53, 28 September 2024 (UTC)