User talk:Utcursch/archive/5

This is an archive of past discussions about User:Utcursch. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

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Comment

Thanks, I look forward to contributing further. Sorry but I'm not sure how to put my comment into your page nicely, so... here it is. --Alveo 16:36, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Harbourcoat

Thanks for the welcome :-) Harbourcoat 12:26, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Bill

Ah thanks for telling me and reverting the edit. I need to slow down using VandalProof. :( --Andeh 17:54, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Wood County, Ohio

Thanks for the tip on Wood County Townships, sorry I didn't do that earlier. Appreciate the help. Frank12 17:59, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Everaldo Coelho working.jpg

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Do these schools deserve articles on wikipedia?

" If the articles are serious (do not contain insults to teachers etc.), nobody can get them deleted." Mate I haven't studied in either of the two schools and the last time I was a high schooler was more than six years ago. Anyway how's your new job treating you? Unitedroad 13:38, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Well I need your help again.........if these articles somehow land up in AFD and if you are convinced about their quality then will you back them in the votes? I could really do with your help with that mate. :) Unitedroad 13:42, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Castes and Tribes of the Punjab

Hi. I am asking your opinion on this festering dispute that has developed between myself and Satbir Singh since the past few days.

The facts of the matter are like this:

I created a template called Castes and Tribes of the Punjab with a view to studying the caste and tribal groups that exist in what was the ancient Punjab region (Punjab (Pakistan), Punjab (India), Haryana and Himachal Pradesh). My intention, unlike any Ibbetsons, Todds or Cunninghams was to study these groups from a purely anthropological perspective sans any controversy so that people visiting this portal would get to know about the huge mosaic that my province (I am a Punjabi) is.

I started with a few groups. But soon enough the groups began to increase. For the sake of brevity, I grouped them under Categories. As the template evolved, I learnt not to name any category speculatively.

The final categories were:

Brahmin groups. Dalit groups. Jat clans. Khatris and other groups. Rajput clans. Shaikhs and other groups. Tarkhans and other groups. Others (groups to which i could not attribute any specific status). In the last (Others), I also included groups such as Kamboj, Khasa, Ahir and Gujjar. However, Satbir Singh separated them and bunched them under a new category called "Surviving Ancient Kshatriya Tribes".

Since that day, a revert war has been on between the two of us. According to Satbir, these groups such as the Ahirs (the ancient Abhiras), the Gujjars (Gurjaras), the Khas (the Khasas), the Kamboj (Kambojas) and Yadav (Yadavas) are ancient Kshatriya tribes mentioned in a number of ancient Sanskrit texts.

My own personal opinion is that all this is true. However, some points must be noted:

The Varna System is a topic subject to a lot of controversy and dispute. I have been noticing this in recent weeks. Pages such as Khatri, Rajput, Kayastha and Bhumihar have been vandalised because many people don't agree with the Varna status of these groups. If the Ahirs, the Gujjars, the Khasaa, the Kambojas and the Yadavas are Kshatriya groups, then so are the Rajputs, Jats, Khatris, Tarkhans et al. I did not create a category entitled "Kshatriya groups" in the first place because I knew I was treading on soft ground. All the above mentioned castes claim Kshatriya status. But we all know, how disputable these claims are. The rigmarole that is the Varna System is known to us all. For example, the Jats, who in the Vedic and Mythological periods were workers should be placed in the Shudra Category under the Varna System. But many Jats clans consider themselves the equal and perhaps the superior of Rajputs as adhrents of Kshatriya Dharma. My own caste, the Khatris and related groups such as Aroras claim Kshatriya status. But we have seen on the Khatri page as to what became of that claim. Ahirs, Gujjars and Yadavs are considered to be OBCs in most Indian states inspite of their being the descendants of ancient Abhiras, Gurjaras and Yadus. There is a controversy raging on the Yadav page presently if I am not wrong, on the status of the caste. Taking all these points into consideration and being aware of the fact that there are users (say Sanjay Mohan and Holywarrior, who have caused great disputes on various caste pages, I proposed categories such as "Kambojs and related groups" (Kamboj, Kamboja, Kamboh and Khasa) and "Gujjars and realted groups" (Ahirs, Gujjars, Dhangars and Bakarwals). But Satbir Singh and another user named Sze cavalry01 objected to it. They returned to "Ancient Kshatriya Tribes". I did a little compromise by making it "Ancient Warrior Tribes", which I later realised would also be POV. Therefore, I changed it to just "Ancient Tribes" - A completely unspeculative term.

However, Satbir Singh does not agree. He calls it a "gross suppression of known historical facts", "a crime against history" and "a political agenda" and has termed me a "Vandal". I have put forward my points. But both of us are yet to agree.

I have fighting a revert war with him for almost a week now. Have a look at the template's history page and Satbir Singh's talk page to get a complete idea of the whole fracas.

This fight has become downright silly. I surely don't expect myself to spend my time, money and energy on such a silly matter. And I am sure neither does the other party.

As of now, Administrator Shresth has protected the page on my request. He has also asked that the dispute be discussed on the talk page of the template and a consensus be reached. Yourself and anybody else you know who has an interest in the Punjab, please come and express your opinion on the talk page. Even if the Punjab is not your area of interest, this template is still an NPOV dispute. So please express your thoughts on the talk page.

Regards. Rajatjghai 19:12, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

The Exceptional Newcomer Award

Just a quick thank you for giving me this award. It is greatly appreciated. Dipics 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Plz fix the Votebank case too.

Thanks for fixing the problem in Lalu Prasad Yadav.I think you are familiar with Vote Bank problem too.I would like to see you interfering there as admin intervention is desirable in this case.I am withdrawing from rv,redirect,move and abuse war with user:Gamesmasterg9 and leave it upto you to decide,as you are both familiar with the topic and problem and have admin powers too.I assure you to abide by your verdict.Thanks.Holy | Warrior 10:23, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Green's Hotel

Dear Utcursch,

I do not know whether the following information would interest you and whether you would act on it or not, but I am nevertheless providing it in the hope that it will be of use to you:

There used to be a Green's Hotel at the Apollo Bunder, which was purchased by the Taj Mahal Hotel, demolished and in its place the present Taj Mahal Intercontinental Hotel constructed.

The present Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taj_Mahal_Palace_&_Tower) follows the Taj Hotel's website in confounding the two distinct buildings, built at different times and in different architectural designs as the Taj Mahal Palace & Tower, with 'Tower' refering to the Intercontinental. This may do for the Taj itself, which has administratively merged these two into one, but not from the historical viewpoint.

I do not know whether Green's has much claim to fame, except that it was the place where, at the instigation of Jawaharlal Nehru, and funded by the Kamani Group of Companies, a small group of pro-Indian Goans (largely employees of the Indian state and communists) assembled and formed the Goan Liberation Council demanding that Portugal cede Goa to India, in the 1950s.

Compare these two photographs. You will notice in the older, that where the Intercontinental presently stands, there is a low, three storey building. This is Green's Hotel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:GatewayIndia.jpg Present pic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Gateway-of-India-2.jpg Pld pic with Green's hotel

I suggest that the Taj Mahal hotel page be bifurcated to refer individually to both the older Taj Mahal Hotel and to the Intercontinental. By the way, the Taj Mahal hotel entry should mention the following facts:

The side of the hotel seen from the harbor is actually it's REAR. The front faces away to the west. There is a widespread misconception that the architects' building plans were confused by the builder so that he built it facing away from the harbor. However, this is false, as the hotel was deliberately built facing inland rather than to the harbor. This was probably a deliberate snub to the English king by Tata due to nationalist feelings. Over the last five decades, the old front is not longer being used for access, is closed off, and access is now from the seaside former rear.

Additonally, Regarding your gallery at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Utcursch/gallery

The 9 picture is of the Salesians of Don Bosco's "Church of Mary, Help of Christians" (Maria Auxilatrix) and not, as you have styled it, "Church of Mary of Christians".
The 10th picture of the Gateway and Taj is before the construction of the Taj Intercontinental Hotel, also called the "Taj Tower", on the site of the former Green's Hotel. You can see Green's Hotel as a small building in between the Gateway and the Taj Mahal Hotel.
Pictures 13 & 14, of Angami tribals, should mention that the Angami are a Naga tribe. It becomes confusing when you mention, on pictures 15-19 that the subjects are 'Nagas', but as Angami for 13 & 14; people may jump to the conclusion that Naga and Angami are two distinct peoples!

61.246.204.115 08:31, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Taj Mahal Hotel

Dear Utcursch,

I have been twice a member, and my experience is not good (Last here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:WikiSceptic). I have a low threshold for nonsense which is why I have decided that it is better for my sanity to quit.

As for citations:

I have, somewhere with me, a Taj Mahal Hotel brochure, which gives this information (about orientation); I will have to really search to find it. You can, however, write to the Taj and ask them for confirmation. If you look at the Wikimapia for the Taj (http://wikimapia.org/#y=18921369&x=72832929&z=17&l=0&m=a), you will see it's true orientation. The swimming pool must have been installed much later. (If push comes to shove, I will certainly dig out the Taj publication that is my source).
Green's Hotel: This information was given to me by way of anecdotes by an elderly gentleman who used to frequent the Green's Hotel. Also a Goan, he did not support or participate in the Goan Liberation Council's activities. However, you should be able to confirm this information also with the Taj.

I see that despite apparently being a non-Christian, you are deeply interested in the Salesians. You have pictures I would envy you for their possession. Why don't you create a page on Salesian Mission history in India, incorporating these pictures?

Besides the lovely pic of St. John Bosco at his writing table, and of his home at Beschi, I like the Lay Catechist at work pict (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Catechism-Madras_Presidency_Village.jpg) very much. It would be great to have the exact date. I would like that, as I am a "Traditionalist" who does not accept the Vatican II Reform, and my young friends from Tamil Nadu from the movement would appreciate this picture.

Kind regards,

61.246.204.115 16:49, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Dear Utcursch,

I have found the Taj Mahal Magazine in which the above information is provided. It's name is "Taj", and it is Vol. 32, No. 3, 3rd Quarter 2003. The Editor is Fatma R. Zakaria, and the email is taj.magazine@tajhotels.com.

On page 46, there is a larger than postcard size photo of the structure that stood at the Apollo Pier before the Gateway was built in its place. The photo clearly shows that where the Taj Hotel & Tower stands today, there was a dock!

Page 47 has a photo of the Taj from its former front, with a garden where the swimming pool is. Throughout the book, several authors mention the fact that the real front of the Taj faces into the city, not to the waterfront.

Page 58 has a postcard size photo of the former Green's Hotel, which is identified in the magazine and in the caption of this picture as such; however, a legend on the picture itself informs us that this is the "Green's Mansion, Bombay".

I would prefer that you write to the Taj Magazine and ask for these pictures than that I should scan them from the magazine.

Regards,

WikiSceptic (detoxified_goan@freegoa.com)

Thanks for the barnstar!

Thank you. Most unexpected and most appreciated. Caerwine Caerwhine 20:20, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

atheism wikiproject

HI Utcursch/archive, I nabbed this nifty info box from the Digimon wikiproject, we could turn it into a good tool. Right now it has digimon stuff on it, but that can give us ideas, and help us out. Heres the template: [[1]]. If you could tell as many people as possible, that would be great. Perhaps we could replace the existing one at some point. Somerset219 08:04, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

NITYA SEVA Link

Namaste´, why did you delete the link http://www.nityaseva.privat.t-online.de on the Bhopal side? NITYA SEVA SOCIETY was founded in Bhopal. It runs two children´s homes for street-, slum- and platform children. The association is well known and receives international support and help from many Bhopal people [2] [3] Would you be so kind and add the link again. Thanking you. Have a nice day. Regards, Claus D. von der Fink NITYA SEVA 11.52, 24 August 2006

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Articles request

Dear Utcursch,

I would like to request you to create articles for Patrick Henry Omlor and Fr. Jesus Baza Duenas, if possible and acceptable to you.

The information can be found at these webpages:

Patrick Henry Omlor

Fr. Jesus Baza Duenas

Kind regards,

WikiSceptic

Hi, I found that there is already a rudimentary page on Patrick Henry Omlor at P. H. Omlor. However, it is mistaken in assuming that he is deceased. I would also suggest that the article be moved to his full name, Patrick Henry Omlor rather than the present abbreviated form of his name. Regards, WikiSceptic.

Thanks for doing the needful on Omlor. Regards. [WikiSceptic] My Wikidness 17:30, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Dear Utcursch - Thanks for the Deunas page. God bless. My Wikidness 04:37, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Plz take a look

As you are one of the major contributors on article Lalu Prasad Yadav and particularly the railway minister section which has been under question by some Non-contributing users,I thought I should intimate you regarding this development.Plz share your thought on this issue.Also most of the tags which were relevant earlier is no more relevant now.Infact even I was not aware that article has changed so much,it was only when a user forced me to realise that article is no more what it was earlier ,so I removed more tags.Plz look into this too. HW 09:44, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Your changes on BIET Jhansi's page

Hi Utkarshraj, please see the discussion page: Talk:Bundelkhand_Institute_of_Engineering_&_Technology --APandey 19:09, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Your 'rm parent cat, category diffusion' changes

Its nice of you to create state wise 'university/college' categories. Now regarding you edits pls suggest if one knows only the name of university/college but doesn't know the corresponding state and wants to get to the corresponding page starting from Category:Universities and colleges in India how many tries does he/she needs to get to the corresponding page. Thus there may be need for both general and well as focussed category. Also may be we should break category 'University and colleges' in India into two broader category 'Universities in India' and 'Colleges in India' and multiple sub categories. --Vjdchauhan 14:04, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Changes in BIT-Durg

Dear Utcursh,

BIT-Durg falls under the category of Colleges in Chattisgarh and not in Madhya Pradesh.I'll appreciate if you shall put it right ..However I agree with Mr. VJD Chauhan.

Amiya Shrivastava 14:04, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

it was UICT, not IIT

It was UICT, which was mentioned by me, not IIT. Thanks for the comment. There was no intention of spoiling the page.

I was att IISc

Do I know u? I am making a figure and explanation for the EAG.

Comment

Thank you for the India Quick Links. --Siddharth.prabhu 13:14, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Bhumihar

Nice to see an admin working on this page specially after user:Bhadani left the page .Plz look at the wordings on the top.SDn't it be Bhumihars also known as Bhumihar Brahmin and a Hindu caste rathet than Brahmin subcaste.Plz let me know. Ikon |no-blast 12:56, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Welcome back!

Welcome back, utcursch! I hope you continue here. I haven't had much of interactions, but have heard a lot about you. Join us on IRC sometimes. #wikipedia --Nearly Headless Nick 16:48, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Mahawiki

Hi dear Admin,

This is to bring to your notice the wiki-feud I've been having with User:Mahawiki for almost one month now. It started with the Belgaum page which went to mediation, warnings were handed out to both parties, and when Mahawiki's incivil ways continued, Admin:Bluyugen handed him a warning and then a block. Find that here.

I do not want to turn the clock back and go through all those content disputes again. Infact, I dont want to present to you the details of any content dispute we've had. All I want to present to you is the brazen incivility and personal attacks being committed by User:Mahawiki either in the course of his content disputes or even simply just out of spite.

All the diffs(exhibiting his incivility and personal attacks) I provide below are from AFTER, I REPEAT, "AFTER". ADMIN BLUGYUEN INTERVENED, WARNED ALL OF US, AND HANDED MAHAWIKI A BLOCK.

Please find below dozens of instances of blatant incivility and personal attacks by User:Mahawiki either on me or on User:Dineshkannambadi and all Kannadigas in general. His remarks are in extremely bad taste and counterproductive resulting in undermining of the good faith efforts of the other editors to carry on editing their articles.

While I dont want to go into each and every diff and explain it, just to give you a sample of his incivility, he has made edits where, even if only in jest or sarcasm, he makes atrocious claims like, I am on a kill Mahawiki mission, that User:Dineshkannambadi is the Kannada (Bin) Laden(sic). In another edit, even if only for jest(which I certainly dont find amusing nor appreciate esp., when it comes from him), he has threatened to sue me. He has called us cultural TERRORISTS, losers, notorious, shameless etc., etc. He uses the word vandalism like one would use 'Hi' and 'Hello'.

Find all the above and much much much more in the diffs I've provided below. Whats worse is his antics are going unchecked because Admin:Blugyen who knows about our feud is on a wikibreak and Admin:Sundar whose intervention I've sought more than once, is busy with other things(I presume, in real life) - which ofcourse, I dont hold against either of them.

But wikipedia will be a poorer place if brazen incivility like this goes unchecked for weeks simply because many admins dont know about it or the ones who know are by force of circumstances, too busy to deal with it.

I request immediate and harsh action on Mahawiki.

Once again, let me remind everyone that in the links below, none of them pertain to any content disputes. I belive in dealing with the content disputes on the relevant talk pages and dont usually bring it out on user talk pages.

Infact, I have even not listed below, the atrocious claim he made a couple of days ago that I had deleted and later undeleted an article. Also not listed below is his blatant removal of {{fact}} tags I had added in a couple of articles without even clarifying or providing a citation for the claim which I had tagged. Also not listed below may be umpteen other instances of incivility and npa violations on his part that I might have missed.

All the diffs below deal purely and only with his brazen incivil comments and personal attacks not just on me, but on User:Dineshkannambadi and also highly respected historians like Mr. Suryanath Kamath et al(who have been cited in some articles by Dinesh) whom he has trashed and dismissed in the most uncivil manner possible.

Apart from this he also makes disparaging remarks on Karnataka and Karnataka politicians who he keeps claiming are oppressing and torturing Marathi speaking people in Belgaum. This is not a content dispute, this is plain nonsense and insanely belligerent language.

His incivility apart, he has made it a habit and a routine to go around all over wikipedia branding me and Dinesh as 'Kannadi' vandals bent on Kannadizing all articles we touch. Ask him if we have included any uncited material or if we has ever cited any references for his numerous claims or whether he has taken it up on the article talk page instead of on a random user talk page. His answer will be negative. And yet, that doesnt stop him from going around shouting that we have been vandalising articles!!

Anway, I dont want to veer this towards the 'content disputes' which is a whole different matter altogether. Content disputes can always be discussed and agreements reached. Let me present to you just his brazen incivility and personal attacks.

Here we go -

[4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] [26] [27] [28] [29] [30] [31] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] [37] [38] [39] [40]

Sarvagnya 22:17, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi Utcursh,

While I agree that I used Chatripati once and Sevooji once and regret both instances, once again it was because Mahawiki was not heeding anybody's request and advice not to use Kannadi nor were any admins intervening. His usage of Kannadi is more than one month old nearly. That is why I go frustrated and just once(compared to his millions of times) use Sevooji.

With Chatripati, it is slightly different. He was trying to argue that Kannadi is valid because if you search for Kannadi(in devanagari script that too) on Google, it will return some hits. I was trying to point out to him that his logic was flawed because, we will get hits even if we search for Chatripati Shivaji instead of Chatrapati.

He is blowing these instances out of proportion to cover up for his blatant misbehaviour and incivility.

And if you see on Bhadani's talk page, he is again talking about Belgaum talk page. I am talking of the last 15 days or so. ie after admin Blnguyen warned all of us and blocked mahawiki. Belgaum talk page saw atleast 2 mediators and they know what happened. If I were to add instances of incivility since the Belgaum talk page, the list of 37 I have provided above will become atleat 200. Also, if you observe, both arya and mahawiki are now trying to divert the attention to content disputes to cover their misbehaviour. I can also start talking about the content disputes, but I believe in talking about them on the respective talk pages - not on user talk pages.

His claim on Kaveri is basically another blatant lie. You can go and check the talk pages and you will see that I have given explanation for each edit I have made. Moreover, it is BostonMA and not either of these guys who is one of the main editors there. And till now, he has not had any problem with my edits and he has hardly ever reverted my edits. It is only these guys, if you observe, their only edits on Kaveri are to revert my edits claiming that there is no consensus on talk page, which again, is a blatant lie!!

Also about Mahawiki's claim that I am vandalising or Kannadising Rajkumar, Kannada, Karnataka, Rashtrakuta, Chalukya, Vijayanagar_empire, Seuna etc.,. Go and check the history there on those articles, you will see that I have almost ZERO edits on those pages!! even if I have edits, they may be limited to copyed or cleanup etc.,. In spite of that these people are going all over Wikipedia with their blatant lies and if admins or other users make the mistake of taking their claims at face value, they feel encouraged to repeat the same lies on the next page they go!!

As for Dinesh Kannambadi's edits, go and see for yourself, he has given proper citations for each and every article that he has edited. These guys first of all dont have any citations to provide on any page, and second of all, dont have the courtesy to carry on a civil discussion on talk page, but straightaway go and make changes or tag the page as disputed!!

Infact, on Rashtrakuta page, Mahawiki admitted himself that he didnt know anything about the subject but still added disputed tag to it!!

On Marathi article page and another page, this Arya who is posing like a good boy here, blatantly removed {{fact}} tags I had added. On Marathi_people page, I had added all of maybe 4 or 5 such tags questioning blatant POV, this guy came and straightaway removed it without any explanations!!! Just go and check the history there.

Like I said, I dont want to go into the content dispute/history of each page. If I did that, I can counter these guys' claims 1:1000. All I am talking about and want action taken about is their never ending incivility. They have made it a habit and a routine.

And if you see my original post(the one above) I have spoken only about Mahawiki and kept Arya mostly out of it. But these guys want to bring in vgowda, kirtinat kamat etc., just to divert attention. Neither me nor Dinesh have anything to do with those two and havent even corresponded with them even once. This is just plain attention diverting tactics.

Also I want one more thing stopped IMMEDIATELY. that is their referring to Dinesh Kannambadi as 'kannadibadi'(sic). They have called him that millions of times already. Just go to their talk pages or rashtrakuta, belgaum talk pages and do a control f for "kannadibadi" and you will see.

Even if they have any problems with the articles(all their so called problems are bogus and stem from ignorance of the subject) they should discuss it in a civil way on the article's talk page. they have no business trolling all over WP instead! Sarvagnya 17:01, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Mahawiki And Sarvagnya

Hi Utcursch, nice to meet a Mumbaikar in Wikipedia. Well, I really wasn't trying to fuel the war between them. Actually the admin Bhadaniji must know the views of everyone involved. Isn't it ? It shouldn't happen that mahawiki is punished for other's faults. I know mahawiki did use words like vandals but what else can he do when Sarvagnya intentionally deletes whole paras like he did in Kaveri article. We Marathi people are a bit hot-tempered when it comes to our culture. That's why sometimes in anger we do get a little uncivil. But I have remained extremely civil since I promised admin BInguyen. We are not against Kannada. How can we ? They are our neighbours and ther culture has influenced Marathi culture to some extent just as vice-versa. But these users, a gang of four, Sarvagnya, DineshKannambadi, KNM and Vgowda (with sockpuppet Kirtinat Kamat) are Kannadizing every other article. It's extreme POV and shameless propaganda. And further that's done at the expense of Marathi. Which is certainly not fair. And that's what gets me angry. But, I'll heed your advice and I'll keep away from Sarvagnya (which I do now also) and I'll tell mahawiki to cool as well. Infact if you see his talkpage, you'll see that I've told him to calm down twice or more. Bye for now. Thanx for dropping by.. - AryaRajyaमहाराष्ट्र 15:09, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Arya Rajya Maharashtra

Dear Utcursch,

I request your attention to this sentence above made by User:Arya Rajya Maharashtra:

"But these users, a gang of four, Sarvagnya, DineshKannambadi, KNM and Vgowda (with sockpuppet Kirtinat Kamat) are Kannadizing every other article. It's extreme POV and shameless propaganda."

This statement is a direct personal attack on me and other users too.
Please request the user to prove "I have Kannadized every other article" and "added extreme POV". It is a serious allegation.
Usage of "shameless propoganda" is uncivil

Thank you! - KNM ^{Talk - Contribs} 04:41, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

few of the words by ur dear friend sarvagnya bestowed on us- Shameless,troll,bluff,wolf. Add- *Maharashtra's stand on belgaum is like that of Pakistan(coutrtesy-Dinesh)

Maharashtrians compared with pakistani jehadis

(courtesy-sarvagnya) Mahawiki 05:10, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Mediation

Hi Utcursh,

Bhadani has let us know that he will not be mediating any further in the Mahawiki issue. Can you please take over from him and mediate?

I request you to focus solely on the incivility and NOT on any of the 'content disputes'. Content disputes can always be taken up once people start behaving themselves. Thanks. Sarvagnya 19:46, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Sarvagnya is the troublemaker

Hi Utcursh, Thanks for ur message.To have a idea of what is the root cause of our conflict I request u to go though my discussions with Sarvagnya THOROUGHLY.After I was adviced by Sundar and Aksi_great,I did behave.Sarvagnya took advantage of it and continued his aggressive behaviour.Obviously,since I had made a claim backed with citations,it was accepted and this hurted Sarvagnya's ego.Since then he is creating trouble and badmouthing against me everywhere.Yesterday he 'spammed ' my complaints to every other Indian admins!Look at his efforts to badmouth me.It would be nice if he used his time and efforts to develop Kannadi articles. If u promise me to keep a watch on me and sarvagnya,I think I will not exhibit incivil behaviour.The important concern I have is the POV imposition of these Kannadi editors on each and every article possible.I am especially concerned about defamation of Marathi/Maharashtra related articles.For example see: Seuna where few editors have literally Kannadised it and potrayed as if Yadavas were Kannadis.Note tht Kannada is being glorified againt Marathi.If u promise to take care of it I will be relaxed! And regarding Sarvagnya and his gang I am not even intrested in talking let alone personal attcks! Mahawiki 04:25, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Arya has better understanding of Wiki policies than me and he has always adviced me to stay calm and peaceful.Plz dont make him a culprit here.If KNM and Dinesh are allowed to express their views why cant Arya?

I would request u to stay focused on CONTENT DISPUTES as it that which concerns me most.To repeat I have zero intrest to even talk with sarvagnya.And yes I have problems with their 'Kannadisation' or pushing of Kannada POV everywhere.So Sarvagnya and his gang feature in this dispute.For sarvagnya its only a Mahawiki hatao thing!Mahawiki 04:29, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

U had commented against my words 'Kannadi vandalism' but perhaps u didnt notice the words 'Maratty vandalism' by a Kannadi fanatic,Marati,Sevooji,Chatripati, Marathee Maratoo by Sarvagnya....If u want the links I shall provide u.I would striongly recommend u to go Belgaon talk page! Mahawiki 04:40, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Serious trouble by me??

Its unfortunate that u have come to this conclusion even before knowing my stand!I request u to take a neutral and impartial stand.I mean just see Sarvagnya's few comments about me-Shameless,wolf,troll,vandal,bluff etc etc..See how is trying hard to woo Indian admins to block me!He is infact doing a reasearch on my edits!But perhaps u have not noticed I dont have any problem with a particluar user but a systemised POV pushing of a particular state and language.He acts a innocent guy plz see his pushing of POV at Belgaon page HERE.Sarvagnya has aproblem with Tamil transliteration at Kaveri (see Kaveri_water_dispute and see his poshing of POV!!!,Hindi/Nagari transliterat6ion at Vande_maratam and Jana_gana_mana.He's badmouthing against me from ages!The admin Blnguyen's [talk page] is full of his anti-mahawiki rants.He bombed Marathi_people article and tagged them in BAD FAITH.when admin was already talking a look at that article.He's even asking others to 'post a comment' against me at admin's page at Haphars page and Baka's page.He even tried to push my typo(nut)as if I was insulting admin. Why is he so bent on kicking off from Wikipedia?He's always arrogant and rude with me.Wikipedia advices its editors of being patient with new editors but he's behind me from the day I proposed Marathi transliteration on Belgaum.He rediculed me coz of my poor English and lack of understanding of Wiki policies.he slapped me with warnings and when I deleted them(plz pardon my ignorance) he make it a issue to potray me as a Vandalist.When I accused him of deleting a article out of ignorance he made a fuss of it.It seems his prime motive is KICKING OFF MAHAWIKI FOREVER.This is disguisting.Tell him to stop his rantings at once.

I request u to be impartial and neutral.Thanks. Mahawiki 05:08, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Civility issues and content issues

Hi Utcursch, Yes. You summed it up right. There are a)civility issues and b)content issues. Mahawiki below on this page has said that he wants to focus only on content issues. My only point is: Content and civility issues are different and shouldnt be mixed. No content issue should ever be used as an excuse for indulging in the kind of incivility that Mahawiki is indulging in. And of course, I will certainly be happy to let bygones be bygones. But then can any admin give me the guarantee that Mahawiki will NOT slip back into his old ways from tomorrow itself. And if he does, will the admins take merciless action on him on their own or will I have to start this process again and start going from admin to admin for justice?

And talking of content issues, please check the talk histories of the concerned articles. Do you see even one constructive edit by him on the talk page? Infact, in many of the articles he is complaining about, he does not have a single edit on the talk page. The only talk page he has shown any interest is in the Rashtrakuta talk page, where all his edits on the talk page was either mere assertions of his own POV or just plain trolling. You can please check for yourself.

All he has been doing is making assertions everywhere like ... such and such an article is vandalised..., such and such an article is kannadised, ...that article is an advertisement..., ...this article is disputed..... Not even on a single occassion has he given any credible explanations for his assertions. Instead he has simply gone ahead and tagged as disputed or POV as he had done in the case of Rashtrakuta.

As for me, the procedure I usually follow when I have an issue with the contents of a page is, a) if it is something specific, I tag it with ~~^{[citation needed]}~~ tags(as I had done | here and here , b) if it is something elaborate, I engage in discussions with other editors on the talk pagelike this.

In both the instances of case(a) above, their response was to call my edit vandalism and summarily do away with the tags!! These are not the only instances they have done this. Almost any and every edit that myself and Dinesh have made has been dubbed Vandalism.

In the case of Kaveri again, please see the talk page or check with User:BostonMA who is an active editor there. Has Mahawiki provided even a single citation of his own on that page? Or forget citations, has he even made a single assertion of his view of the subject. Just as in the case of Rashtrakuta where he himself agreed that he doesnt know anything about the subject(I can find you the link if you want), here also, he knows nothing of the subject. He is there purely and simply to inflame the atmosphere.. thats all. You can check for yourself on that talk page or you can check with User:BostonMA. Infact, he was having problems with my edits which even BostonMA, being an active editor there didnt question!! Sarvagnya 05:38, 28 September 2006 (UTC)