Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/September 2021

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Japanese towns article titles and move requests

Hi. Over at Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical requests, a very large amount of moves for Japanese town articles have been requested, all of the form Town, Prefecture → Town in cases where there is only one town with such name. These seem uncontroversial and I've performed a few of them, but there are now so many that I would appreciate some confirmation that these requests are valid before I continue. As far as I can see, MOS:JPPLACE is not explicit about this, but does imply that no disambiguation is needed if the town name is unambiguous. Is that correct?

Also, it seems that there is a connection between these requests and User:AichiWikiFixer, who was indefinitely blocked apparently for mass–performing moves of this type. Pinging Nihonjoe who was involved in that.

Thanks. Lennart97 (talk) 13:00, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Lennart97 MOS:JPPLACE is very poorly written in this regard. The section is titled "When disambiguation is required", which implies that unique city names don't need a prefecture, but then goes on to say even the prefecture can be dropped for world-famous cities familiar to most Westerners, such as Hiroshima or Kobe, which implies that the prefecture can't be dropped for non-world-famous cities even if disambiguation isn't required. In regards to AichiWikiFixer, as far as I can tell the block was for mass-performing moves without leaving an edit summary, not for the moves themselves, although I let the involved editors speak up (pinging @Praxidicae and SnowFire). --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 15:02, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Lennart97: - AichiWikiFixer (who is surely the person making the requests) also snuck in just strange or bad moves too for seemingly little reason - for example, moving Yamagata, Yamagata to "Yamagata (core city)". Basically, AichiWikiFixer doesn't think City, Prefecture is ever valid, and seemingly would rather city names be unadorned or disambiguated with City (city) or the like, so I don't really trust their judgment on any of this. I do agree JPPLACE should be clarified that "city only" is only valid for the most famous cities. SnowFire (talk) 16:36, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@SnowFire So you're arguing that the prefecture should always be included even when the city name would not otherwise be ambiguous? In Japan, are these cities never referred to without their prefecture? Unless the widely accepted name includes the prefecture, it seems that this is unnecessary disambiguation and goes against WP:CONCISE. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 17:08, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's a wider discussion that should be held first. But yes, I prefer the City, Prefecture style. Also, an article title is not running text - it's fair to point out that these cities might not be referred to in this form there, but article titles need to be clear and unambiguous. It's a trade-off, but there's a gain in clarity despite the loss in concision from including prefecture. SnowFire (talk) 17:25, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As for Curly Turkey since 2014 it can be moved without disambiguation, and until they disrupt soon.--2001:4450:830F:1F00:EDF2:2378:39C6:4FC7 (talk) 01:41, 6 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That makes zero sense, but AichiWikiFixer refused to respond even in Japanese, so I suppose it isn't surprising. Note that AichiWikiFixer is still at it at other articles via TM so this discussion should probably happen sooner rather than later. I'd really rather it be anybody other than AichiWikiFixer who, er, "fixes" this since they have proven to have terrible judgment & communication skills on article titles before (not just this matter). If Ahecht or others want to clarify the standard to explicitly prefer not includuing prefecture, great, but let's do that then rather than let AichiWikiFixer do it. SnowFire (talk) 06:50, 6 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@SnowFire If that regrads to the famous cities in Japan that required to change whether there was disambiguation or not, but its notice says: "Even the prefecture can be dropped for world-famous cities familiar to most Westerners, such as Hiroshima or Kobe." to avoid confusion would determine for such as capital or designated cities to refuse that the same name. If someone is moving, some of users are not explicit if they tease that that can be moved for other cities, towns, villages on a time. I noticed that reversion to this user can be moved that major cities per request. --2001:4450:830F:1F00:EDF2:2378:39C6:4FC7 (talk) 08:45, 6 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not quite sure about policy, but personally find it easier to see at a glance when clicking on a lesser-known toponym such as Toon (Tōon, Ehime) that I'm looking at a place in Japan not something to do with Newcastle/something else, even if no disambiguation is strictly necessary, if the title spells it out; also the reference to the Prefecture helps implant the location, so yes, a gain in clarity, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 09:20, 6 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, let me be bold here - I confess I haven't read MOS on this topic or read but very long years ago and forgot completely. I could however boast I have some senses on this topic as a born-Japanese. My opinion is

Move Town, Prefecture → Town could be controversial, if not at this moment, but in the future, potentially, on the contrary of
Move City, Prefecture → City, I rather say the latter is even recommended.

There is no legal restriction in Japan to name a town with a name already used for another town or city. But cities should be named uniquely, so it is pointless to name an article of Japanese city "City, Prefecture", if it is just to avoid naming conflict among cities. It shouldn't happen on modern cities. Of course, most of Japanese cities are unfamiliar with international readers, so I don't mind the English Wikipedia prefer to name them as City, Prefecture. As said above, there could be towns in the same name, so it might not be always redundant (for example, there is a city named Ikeda (Ikeda, Osaka) and many towns under the same name).--Aphaia (talk) 19:34, 6 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Aya Gloomy

Hello, I recently created an article for Japanese pop artist Aya Gloomy. It is very brief at the moment. I was wondering if there were any sources in Japanese that could be used to improve the article. Any help would be appreciated! Thank you, Thriley (talk) 01:21, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Thriley: Hi there, I've added a few. LaunchOctopus (talk) 04:30, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Best page move option for Oshizushihako?

I found this unref'd since 2007. Basically it sounds like a typical sushi press (I've spent plenty of time in Daiso), but I'm not sure if there's a distinction for "Oshizushihako", or how it compares to all the other translations for "sushi press" from non-RS Japanese cookbooks. RSs have been scarce in general, but having an obscure name doesn't help.

Any opinions appreciated, please see the Talk:Oshizushihako Cheers, Estheim (talk) 00:18, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Shōjo

Hello all, I noticed that the article at the title Shōjo was recently redirected to Shōjo manga after an AfD (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shōjo). That specific version of the article went against WP:NOT#DICT, as it was focused on the etymology of the word itself, but I am certain the title can and should hold an article on shōjo bunka/girls' culture, which a major and important cultural topic (the ideal of the pre-marital, adolescent girl) covered extensively by many authors, who trace it from Meiji literature and the influence of Romanticism to shōjo manga and beyond. There are sources across a wide array of fields (sociology, literary criticism, feminist perspectives; often focusing on shōjo manga as its distillation in the 1970s), here is just a few that I found:

"Yoshimoto Banana Writes Home: Shojo Culture and the Nostalgic Subject" (1993) by John Whittier Treat, Journal of Japanese Studies, 19(2)
Passionate Friendship: The Aesthetics of Girl's Culture in Japan (2012) by Deborah M. Shamoon, University of Hawai‘i Press
Girl Reading Girl in Japan (2012), edited by Tomoko Aoyama and Barbara Hartley, Routledge
"Magic, Shōjo, and Metamorphosis: Magical Girl Anime and the Challenges of Changing Gender Identities in Japanese Society" (2014) by Kumiko Saito, The Journal of Asian Studies, 73(1)
International Perspectives on Shojo and Shojo Manga: The Influence of Girl Culture (2018), edited by Masami Toku, Routledge
Age of Shojo: The Emergence, Evolution, and Power of Japanese Girls (2019) by Hiromi Tsuchiya Dollase, SUNY Press

Just wanted to drop a note in case anyone is interested in kickstarting a new article. I may or not be able to help sometime in the future. — Goszei (talk) 22:08, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]