Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/September 2016

Talk & archives for WP Japan

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Shimpan

The article shimpan is currently about the ringside judges in sumo. But as many who frequent this page probably know, shimpan is a generic word meaning umpire or referee that is used in all sports. It's been a while since I've watched NHK's English broadcast of the sumo, but I can't remember them using the word; from memory they just say "judges".
Someone on the talk page suggested expanding the article to cover other martial arts too. I'm wondering whether moving it to a title like referee (sumo) would be a better option, with shimpan redirecting to referee. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 01:33, 1 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I know nothing about this topic as such, but there is something I feel quite strongly - that English Wikipedia should have titles in English, unless there really is no English word for the concept. (For example ashigaru really seems an appropriate title to me; Kyoyasai, Eikaiwa school, and Wakan Konko Bun, to name but a few examples, do not.) Here, as you say, shinpan (WP standard romanisation!) is a generic word which does not capture the subject of the article in Japanese or English. What's wrong with just Sumo referee? I don't have strong views on the best title, but I certainly think it should be in English. Imaginatorium (talk) 07:11, 1 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Gyōji is a sumo refree. This article is misleading, as shinpan is for other sports, we don't call a Gyōji a shinpan. --Omotecho (talk) 01:09, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed you're right. Judge would be the more appropriate term. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 04:31, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I agree. Reading ja:審判員#大相撲 and I am confused, as per that article ringside judges are ja:勝負審判 Shōbushinpan. FYI, for shōbushinpan, I could not source the term at Sumōkyōkai official website. --Omotecho (talk) 19:44, 23 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You'll see that on the page of the official website you've linked to, 23 of the members are listed as belonging to the 審判部 of the association. There are also 23 people listed as "current judges" at ja:勝負審判, so without cross-checking the names I'll confidently guess they are the same people. Searching for "勝負審判" on google only returns 11,900 hits, and only 96 in the news tab (including one article from the Mainichi Shimbun earlier this year). So despite it being the article title used on the jawiki, I am not convinced it is any sort of official term. 審判 or 審判団 (referring to the five judges as a group) seems to be used more often in news articles.

Echoing Imaginatorium's comments above, we really should use an English term. So why not judge (sumo)? "ringside" is often included in English news reports to distinguish from the Gyoji, but I think it is unnecessary to include it in the article title. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 04:09, 24 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have no issue with this. If people understandably feel the title should be in English judge (sumo) seems acceptable me. A lot of people with some interest in sumo may know the term and will search shinpan/shimpan, but a simple redirect will fix that. FourTildes (talk) 09:40, 30 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There has been no objection, so I am going to go ahead and move it to judge (sumo), with shimpan and shinpan redirecting to referee. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 07:52, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Japanese Wikivoyage

In case anyone's interested: ja:Wikipedia:Help_for_Non-Japanese_Speakers#Japanese_Wikivoyage, thanks Acer (talk) 16:16, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

10,000 Challenge

Hi, I was wondering if anybody would like to collaborate long term in trying to reach a 10,000 article improvement/creation drive for Japan/East Asia at Wikipedia:WikiProject Japan/The 10,000 Challenge like we're doing for the UK at Wikipedia:The 10,000 Challenge? Regional contests fuel the drive but it's a permanent goal now. Would Japanese wikipedians be interested in running a similar thing and some regional prefectural contests/editathons to increase output? It could also involve Japanese wiki and bring improvements on there too.♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:55, 11 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Japanese video games and being a part of this project

The video game Mighty No. 9 was developed in Japan and instigated by a Japanese person. I added this game to this WikiProject but another editor removed this game saying "(don't think this is standard for the 1000s of other Japanese games)"

Wouldn't every Japanese game be a part of this project? @Dissident93: WhisperToMe (talk) 01:29, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus was passed time and time again against this, so I'm not sure why you're so adamant about adding it despite that. Are they even known by the katakana in Japan? If not, then this isn't even truthful. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 17:38, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Dissident93: 1. Where may I see this consensus? 2. If so, were members of this WikiProject notified and involved in the discussion? To my knowledge anything substantially related to Japan is a part of this project (unless it's in a daughter project like Nintendo or Anime and manga). As for the names, the Japanese Wikipedia gives kanji and kana. Japanese official websites in all likelihood will give the same answers. WhisperToMe (talk) 22:06, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The Japanese website is located here. Doing a Google site search found this page which states: "と感じた人は、以前に届いたベック＆コールの像のことを思い出したのかもしれませんね。" WhisperToMe (talk) 22:26, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There has never been a consensus like what you describe, Dissident93. Whether the title of a game is in katakana in Japan is irrelevant. The only case where this project tends to not add a banner to a Japan-related article is if it is already tagged by WikiProject Anime and manga, since everything under that project is technically part of this project. There has never been a consensus regarding any other set of articles. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 23:02, 11 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus for adding Japanese names for every Japanese character and staff member, or adding the wikiproject? For the first one, the majority of commenters on the Sonic 1 talk page were against it. And just for the future, but would a single Japanese employee for a Western made game involve the project too? ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 23:44, 11 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Dissident93: Give me a break. You came here asking about adding the project to a particular page, and we answered you. Now you're changing the question to involve something else entirely. Please try to keep focused. It's not like this discussion is really long. If a project thinks an article falls under their purview, then they can add the project banner to the talk page. That has been consensus across the site for years now. I find it entirely unlikely that someone would try to tag an article as part of the project because a single Japanese person worked on it. That doesn't even make sense, and it's not the case with this particular article.

If the person has an article, then the kanji for their name should never be included in a regular article (this is different for some list articles). If they are just mentioned in passing, they don't need kanji.

As for characters, it only makes sense to include the Japanese for them when the game was originally made in Japan. It doesn't make sense to try to keep that information out of the article. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 01:08, 12 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A Japanese product made by a Japanese company employing mainly Japanese staff and based in Japan. If that is not a clear cut case of falling within the parameters of this project, then I don't know what is. I don't know when this "Sonic 1" discussion took place, but surely a discussion about whether a genre of articles falls within the project's scope should surely occur at the project's talk page. Were the members of this project notified so they could take part? AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 01:37, 12 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The Sonic 1 discussion at Talk:Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(1991_video_game)#Should_Japanese_names_of_subjects_without_Wikipedia_articles_be_footnoted.3F is (it hasn't been closed yet) not over whether the game was a part of the Japan WikiProject, but over whether the Japanese names of some Japanese developers should be indicated by footnotes in the article - in that case the Wikiproject was notified, but the discussion was not about whether this article was a part of the project - Even if the decision is ultimately no in this case, it's a "case-by-case" basis just for this article WhisperToMe (talk) 05:19, 12 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the link. I have added a comment there, but I think this other issue of including the Japan project banner is equally important. If the article has the project's banner and the RFC template {{rfc|soc}} is added to the RFC, then all people who watchlist the project's article alerts page would be made aware of the discussion. I see no reason why the project banner should not be added post haste. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 06:46, 12 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I went ahead and restored the JAwiki template to Talk:Mighty No. 9 and I expect it to remain. WhisperToMe (talk) 21:00, 12 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ai Shinozaki

Her article needs some attention from someone who can provide references for it. I had no luck at finding any good ones and I don't understand Japanese. Thank you. ☴ Jaewon [Talk] 15:41, 13 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

List of songs recorded by Alyssa Milano

I have nominated List of songs recorded by Alyssa Milano for featured list status here. I'd appreciate it if any of you could take a look and leave your comments. Aoba47 (talk) 18:37, 16 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Aoba47: What is the connection to Japan? Just curious, since you posted it here. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 20:49, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Nihonjoe: No worries. Alyssa Milano released music exclusively in Japan through the Japanese record label Pony Canyon, Inc. so I believe that it qualifies for this WikiProject. Hopefully, that clears it up, but let me know if you have any other questions or if you think it does not belong in the WikiProject. If you are interested, I would love to hear your comments on the FLC. Aoba47 (talk) 21:32, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, that's fine. I was just curious. I hadn't been aware of anything related to Japan she'd done. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 23:10, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Nihonjoe: No worries, and I am pretty sure a majority of people are unaware of it lol. Aoba47 (talk) 17:11, 23 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Toki Yoshiyori and Yorinari

There is a long-standing merge proposal for two pages with different names (Toki Yoshiyori and Toki Yorinari), perhaps the same person. Could someone with more expertise than me have a look at this proposal, which hasn't been commented on for 3 years, but which looks reasonable. The talk page is at Talk:Toki Yoshiyori#Merger proposal. Klbrain (talk) 20:00, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It looks someone has messed up a cut and paste job here. Based on the links to the corresponding articles, Yorinari appears to be correct, although the Japanese article gives Yorinori as the predominant reading of his name. Yoriyoshi is given as an alternative, but Yoshiyori is not.

The Toki Yoshiyori article links to the Japanese article for Toki Yoritake, who was the father of Yorinari. I think the intention was to create an article for Yoritake, using the same framework as the other article, but the kanji name and date of birth were left the same. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 02:47, 21 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Disagree Allow me to suggest that Toki Yoshiyori could be deleted, or I am against to merge it with Toki Yorinari. I could not find Toki Yoshiyori and his son Yoshitatsu neither in Japanese article nor among Toki clan. Sorry, I could not source external materials in English.

I support @AtHomeIn神戸 that we miss here Yorinori's elder brother 土岐頼武 (Toki Yoritake).

Toki Yorinari looks fine to me, as per Japanese article that he was exiled by Saito Dōsan twice in mid 16th century as mentioned in Toki_Yorinari#Daimyo.

For your info, Ōkuwa Castle was not built by Yoshiyori which is mentioned in Toki Yoshiyori#Daimyo. It was build much earlier. --Omotecho (talk) 12:41, 26 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Rail line article renaming requests

Moves have been requested for the following railway line articles, and as the discussion has repercussions on the long-standing manual of style we use for naming articles about private railway lines in Japan (Kintetsu line articles have already been changed from "Kintetsu OOOO Line" to "OOOO Line (Kintetsu"), I'm hoping we can get some wider input on the subject on the corresponding talk pages. Thanks.

--DAJF (talk) 23:56, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sister cities

Please see the discussion at Talk:Tokyo#Paris and Rome are no twin cities regarding the status of Tokyo's sister city relationships with Paris and Rome. It also affects the Kyoto article and a multitude of other articles that I've listed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cities#Sister cities of Paris and Rome. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 00:10, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

National symbols of Japan

So I was looking at relevant category, and Japan is one of the few major countries missing this topic from the series. Anyone feels like stubbing it? See for example National symbols of China, National symbols of Poland or National symbols of Germany. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:24, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Piotrus: Done: National symbols of Japan. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 23:19, 11 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

To be honest, this whole concept of national symbol seems a bit vague to me. Is there some consensus on what should go into such articles? Probably everybody will agree with the three items (anthem, flag, Imperial seal), but how about things like Fuji-san, sushi, a torii (either the one at Miyajima or an abstract one), ... ? bamse (talk) 21:38, 21 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Bamse: If there's some official (or other reliable) source listing whatever it is as a "national symbol" or "official x", then we can include it. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 01:33, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]