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New image

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We should get a more recent image, now that Helene is a storm rather than a disturbance. This will be needed as it appears this storm will become extremely violent. CyclonicStormYutu (talk) 16:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure that this will qualify for a more "better" image replacement, but it sure looks impressive now!
[1]https://cdn.star.nesdis.noaa.gov/GOES16/ABI/CONUS/GEOCOLOR/1250x750.jpg 162.196.25.164 (talk) 20:26, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

More faster edits on Helene's catorgory.

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I think we should get info from the National Hurricane Center or National Weather Service, or even the NOAA! And this is coming from a person in Florida. AmazedCheezBalls (talk) 01:36, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We do. Citations 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, and 45 are directly from the NHC. Advisories from the National Weather Service are of lesser use, as they are for immediately preserving life and property, and from NOAA is typically more retrospective and not timely, so the four or so daily NHC bulletins are as rapid as information can be reasonably added. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 01:49, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, ok. So should I remove this? AmazedCheezBalls (talk) 02:11, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This discussion? Better to leave it up and just have it be marked as  Already done or so. --Super Goku V (talk) 05:18, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Move to Hurricane Helene?

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Is this the time that we give this the primary article? Or do we wait to see the impacts done? CrazyC83 (talk) 20:16, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If an RM was called, I doubt it would pass because of the 1958 storm. ✶Quxyz✶ 20:47, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose to that. Hurricane Helene (1958) was, as of this message, stronger, costlier, and deadlier than the 2024 version. So absolutely not. Like mentioned above, if an RM is called, it would be strong opposed probably due to the 1958 storm. Even if this caused major damage, it would be opposed as the 1958 storm caused equivalent to 119 million in damage in today's money. There would be no clear primary topic, as both are there. For "Helene", the article "Hurricane Helene" should be the list of storms, unless the 2024 storm is retired. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 20:54, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If damage totals come out pretty high (say 10 billion) which is a possibility if you account for the possible damage it could do farther inland in states like Georgia, then we can talk. But PRIMARYTOPIC might come into play here if everyone else begins associating Helene to the 2024 storm instead of 1958. We’ll see how things go. MarioProtIV (talk/contribs) 21:56, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait for now, but likely strong support Hold off on a move discussion for now. We can't compare the 2024 storm to others because the effects of the 2024 storm are still a question mark. There's certainly reason to believe it will become the most significant Helene: the storm itself is massive, some forecasters predict it will further intensify to Category 4 (which would make the storm join the very small list of storms to strike the US at that intensity), the risk of major flooding means it is likely to have significant effects on many states in the Southeast (not just Florida), etc. It's very easy to imagine that it's going to cause more than Helene's one (indirect) fatality and $11.4M ($119M in today's money). I find using money as a representation of damage to be misleading because generally storms that hit the US cause exponentially more "damage" when it is the poorer countries that are actually more damaged, but nevertheless, this should be an effortless bar for Helene to clear. As a side note, we do not to convert previous figures to today's money when comparing these stats: we consider Harvey to be tied with Katrina for costliest hurricane, even though Katrina stays #1 when adjusted for inflation.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 21:57, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The magnitude of its impacts are not guaranteed. Idalia last year was about the same intensity but was not retired and did no fatalities were caused. ✶Quxyz✶ 22:04, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    As I said, we should wait until after impacts occur to !vote on moving. But I just want to point out that's an odd example to use. Idalia did cause fatalities, and billions in damages. A name does not need to be retired for the name to lack a year, it just needs to be the most important one. We should wait for the impacts to be known, but we will not wait until the WMO meets next year to discuss retirement.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 22:13, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Wait for now; but likely strong support – wait till landfall Hurricane Clyde 🌀my talk page! 22:49, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Wait for now. The impacts should be known, but I will not support unless the magnitude of its impacts are severe enough to warrant a merge. ZZZ'S 23:25, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    And let’s be clear @Zzzs; I don’t think they’re asking for a “merge”; they’re asking for a “move”, which is a fundamental difference. Hurricane Clyde 🌀my talk page! 05:50, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for noticing. It was a typo by the way; I was aware that it's a merge. ZZZ'S 05:52, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You did it again. Hurricane Clyde 🌀my talk page! 05:55, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Rescinding my “wait” !vote. Changing to strong support; it is clear this will be worse than the 1958 storm. But I would like someone to specifically mention the 1958 storm in a hatnote. Hurricane Clyde 🌀my talk page! 05:01, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Idalia was smaller and less intense at landfall; Helene is also forecast to have extensive inland impacts. So, Idalia is not a fair comparison at all to use, on top of what VanillaWizard stated. ArkHyena (talk) 01:32, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This is probably bigger than Ian when it comes to the size (wind radius) of the storm. Hurricane Clyde 🌀my talk page! 03:42, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • You're right about the primary topic rule. I didn't nominate an RM yet because an initial discussion was needed and Idalia was a counter-point. Retirement automatically makes a primary topic, but that won't happen (if warranted) until next spring. CrazyC83 (talk) 23:32, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Still think we should wait till landfall; maybe wait until Friday until we know the scale of the impacts. Code red on the Waffle House Index (see below) doesn’t necessarily make it the primary topic. Hurricane Clyde 🌀my talk page! 00:32, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I will add that most people probably will associate the name Hurricane Helene with the 2024 storm. I didn’t even know there was a hurricane with the same name until @WeatherWriter and @MarioProtIV mentioned that. Hurricane Clyde 🌀my talk page! 00:35, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until impacts become known, but likely strong support. This is very likely to be a very damaging and potentially deadly storm, on top of being notable when considering its intensity at the forecasted landfall location at time of writing. Changing to strong support, as it is rapidly becoming clear that this Helene's impacts are of far greater magnitude than Hurricane Helene (1958). ArkHyena (talk) 01:33, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. To my knowledge the impacts are already greater. 6 confirmed fatalities the most by a storm of this name, damages will almost certainly come in higher than any of the others as well (every other storm named Helene is in the low 10s of millions), and while we can't know this for sure, I'd imagine when people search for "Hurricane Helene" going forward they're looking for this one. Personally I think we should move this sooner rather than later. DarkSide830 (talk) 03:37, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. †TyphoonAmpil† (💬 - 📝 - 🌀 - 🏮) 05:25, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support It's deadlier and possibly even costlier than any other storms named Helene. SomeoneWiki04 (talk) 06:18, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I would like to add that Helene is also causing widespread catastrophic flooding in the inland Carolinas. Hurricane Clyde 🌀my talk page! 13:19, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support once the final damage total comes in. Since 1958, people build closer to the coastlines, and as we saw with Francine and Beryl earlier this year, even storms under category 3 making landfall can still cause billions in damage (for reference, the 1958 Helene only caused 125 million when adjusted for inflation, whereas 2024 Helene is almost certain to cause at least 1 billion, literally 8 times as much). Not to mention the higher death toll, actually making landfall, being in the news, you know the deal. I'd say a good analogue for 1958 Helene would be Hurricane Lee (2023) which caused a similar amount of damage, killed more than 1958 Helene, and wasn't retired, still having the 2023 on its name, and if a category 4 Lee made landfall in 2029 it would easily be the primary topic. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 13:29, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And plus, most people ain’t going to remember the 1958 hurricane; unless of course they’re at least, maybe 75 to 80 years old. But there should still be a hatnote for the 1958 storm. Hurricane Clyde 🌀my talk page! 14:03, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support once final totals are in. Damage costs appear to be much higher even when adjusted for inflation, and fatalities appear to be higher as well. In addition, I agree with the reply to the above remark about the 1958 storm being less well known today since it's been 65+ years. Wildfireupdateman (talk) 15:41, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Even with the absolutely underestimated preliminary damage toll of $6-8 billion, this year's Helene caused far more that 1958's Helene, adjusted for inflation. Tavantius (talk) 16:21, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per previous replies CyclonicStormYutu (talk) 20:08, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Waffle House closure

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Should it be noted that the Crawfordville, FL Waffle House closed? And if you think that mention is weird; I actually do have a reason for asking. Waffle Houses rarely close (see Waffle House Index), and when they do; there is usually a major going on there. Hurricane Clyde 🌀my talk page! 00:26, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I’ll add that it is also extremely rare for a Waffle House to close before the storm even gets there. Hurricane Clyde 🌀my talk page! 00:28, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would add it. ✶Quxyz✶ 00:36, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I’ll defer that to someone else just because I don’t know exactly where I should put it. But I will post the source here. I found it on WCTV at https://www.wctv.tv/2024/09/26/crawfordville-waffle-house-location-closes-helene-barrels-toward-big-bend/ Hurricane Clyde 🌀my talk page! 00:41, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll add it to impacts but if there is precedent for it to go into preparations, then it can be moved there. ✶Quxyz✶ 00:44, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don’t really feel it is important to note. We wouldn’t write about a Walmart closing for a storm, even if it was rare.IrishSurfer21 (talk) 02:01, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yah but there also isn't a Walmart Index used by FEMA. ✶Quxyz✶ 02:02, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But it’s trivial nonetheless. It’s not worth mentioning a Waffle House closing as opposed to universities, amusement parks, and other more important places.IrishSurfer21 (talk) 12:09, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with the above comment. I feel like instead of saying that the waffle house closed, we can refer to the waffle house index reaching red instead w/o mentioning specific closure Wildfireupdateman (talk) 15:39, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is worth mentioning, given how important the Waffle House Index is. NesserWiki (talk) 07:07, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I should rephrase and say "well-known." NesserWiki (talk) 07:08, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would remove it, it’s very trivial and instead should be mentioned on the Waffle House index article itself, not here.IrishSurfer21 (talk) 12:08, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. It is undue for this article, but is rightly mentioned in Waffle House index#Examples. A. Randomdude0000 (talk) 12:26, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I’m fine with only mentioning the Waffle House Index reading. Hurricane Clyde 🌀my talk page! 16:29, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please add sources for all reported deaths

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There are nine deaths listed on here, only five of them have sources attached to them. Please add sources when you update the death toll. NesserWiki (talk) 07:09, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Landfall date

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The hurricane made landfall around 11:30 p.m. eastern time on September 26 but is variously stated to be on September 27 across the article. Should the UTC times be changed or put next to EDT times, and should the infobox picture say the hurricane made landfall on September 26 (with the UTC time de-emphasized)? GeorgeMemulous (talk) 14:07, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I support the motion of making all progression times EDT, as that is the time zone that the hurricane stayed for the majority/all of its lifetime, along with landfall. Would like more input on this decision. Wildfireupdateman (talk) 15:31, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We always use UTC for tropical cyclones and other meteorological events. It's a standard practice across the project at this point due to the number of timezones. Noah, BSBATalk 16:12, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am supportive of keeping UTC for consistency. --Super Goku V (talk) 00:12, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fatalities count

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Where are the 20+ fatalities from? I can't seem to find out how we get 20+ from the sources listed. Wildfireupdateman (talk) 15:32, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

From a cursory glance, I see 19 deaths in all the sources. Seeing as that total will likely increase, I think that 20+ is fine for now. Tavantius (talk) 15:59, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can somebody make a table in the article listing the deaths by States and country with references. As it is now it is impossible to asses what is the number. Pierre cb (talk) 16:11, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I found this on X. [2] The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 16:22, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I can ask Elijah(runner of the account iirc) for more info on discord. I know him from a server that we share in. Wildfireupdateman (talk) 17:36, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sept. 28th onward

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Currently, there is a bit of an issue with the numbers in the article.

Collapsible list

Lede: The lede says there have been 46 deaths with no citation.
Infobox: The infobox says there have been 52 deaths with a citation to X/Twitter.
Table: The Impact by State table says there have been 52 deaths broken down as follows:

  • South Carolina: 21
  • Georgia: 18
  • Florida: 9
  • North Carolina: 3
  • Virginia: 1

Section text: The breakdown of the Impact section is as follows with a total of 47:

  • South Carolina: 19
  • Georgia: 15
  • Florida: 9 (though the text says 8)
  • North Carolina: 3
  • Elsewhere: 1 (in Virginia)

Currently, I am unsure of how to detangle South Carolina and Georgia nor fix the number issues. The South Carolina sources for the 21 deaths in the table are AP which says there have been 17 deaths in South Carolina and X/Twitter which uses a video of a WHNS broadcast that says there have been 21 deaths. (WHNS appears to prefer videos to articles on its website, with the latest video update saying there have been 23 deaths.) The Georgia sources for the 18 deaths are ABC News citing Governor Kemp that there have been 15 deaths; a WJCL article saying there have been two deaths in Jeff Davis County; a WAGA-TV article saying that the Georgia Emergency Management and Homeland Security Agency has confirmed 15 deaths; a WTLV-TV article saying there have been 18 deaths combined in Georgia and Florida with Governor Kemp cited that there have been 11 deaths in Georgia with a breakdown of 5 of the deaths in Wheeler County (2), Pierce County (1), and Laurens County (2); a second WJCL article with Governor Kemp cited again for 11 deaths with a breakdown of 7 of the deaths in Jeff Davis County (4), Laurens County (2), and Liberty County (1); The Guardian reporting 15 deaths citing the spokesperson for the Governor, and a WJBF article listing 17 deaths in the Central Savannah River Area and listing 11 deaths in Georgia with a breakdown of the deaths in Richmond County (5; assumed to be Georgia), McDuffie County (4), and Saluda County which isn't in Georgia. (Which seems to be 19 if combining WTLV, WJCL, and WJBF, not 18 or 15.) If anyone has any suggestions, I would appreciate it. --Super Goku V (talk) 07:16, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Integrated Kinetic Energy

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Does anyone know this value for Helene 2024? I am curious if it was more than Katrina 2005 or Sandy. Thanks Wade Smith0078 (talk) 17:56, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is not a forum. Felicia (talk) 22:03, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Add A Fact: "Millions without power in Southeast US"

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I found a fact that might belong in this article. See the quote below

nearly 4.5 million customers were without power in Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Ohio, South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia and West Virginia

The fact comes from the following source:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/09/27/weather/hurricane-helene-florida


Additional comments from user: Testing out this Wikipedia extension. Forgive me if this is annoying.

This post was generated using the Add A Fact browser extension.

Benplowman (talk) 19:31, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Currently it is broken up, but I think we list 4.61 million in the United States sub-section of the Impact section. --Super Goku V (talk) 07:27, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 27 September 2024

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Moved as an uncontested request with minimal participation. If there is any objection within a reasonable time frame, please ask me to reopen the discussion; if I am not available, please ask at the technical requests page. (closed by non-admin page mover) - FlightTime (open channel) 23:22, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hurricane Helene (2024) → Hurricane Helene – WP:PRIMARYTOPIC is becoming rapidly applicable to this storm. Of storms named Helene, only Hurricane Helene (1958) caused significant land impacts of 1 indirect fatality and 11 million in damages in 1958 USD (~110 million converted). By comparison, this iteration of Helene has already caused >40 deaths, and this toll is unfortunately very likely to rise significantly as cleanup crews recover bodies and dangerous impacts continue throughout the Southeastern U.S. Additionally, although no formal damage estimates have yet to be conducted, it is reasonable to assume that this storm will far surpass the 1958 system, given the former made landfall at peak intensity and is currently inflicting very extensive inland impacts whilst the latter dealt only a grazing blow to the Carolinas. Finally, it is also reasonable to assume that when people are searching for "Hurricane Helene", they mean this Helene and not an obscure storm from over 50 years ago. For these reasons, I believe this article should be moved as soon as possible. ArkHyena (talk) 20:39, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support and if possible, snow close. Seeing as there was a previous discussion with an overwhelming decision to move it due to its historic impacts, I don't see why this needs to wait for seven days prior to being moved. Tavantius (talk) 20:46, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Not winter yet, but I still support the SNOW clause. This probably could've been BOLDly moved. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 20:50, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support. Yes there was the one in 1958, but this one is causing much more severe damage and the name is almost certainly going to be retired. CrazyC83 (talk) 21:13, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support This is overdue. It is likely it will be retired. Felicia (talk) 21:15, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support once final totals are in. Damage costs appear to be much higher even when adjusted for inflation, and fatalities appear to be higher as well. In addition, I agree with the reply to the above remark about the 1958 storm being less well known today since it's been 65+ years. Wildfireupdateman (talk) 21:16, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per rationale of the nominator and the clear consensus of the previous discussion on this page regarding the same proposal, as well as the above comments on this thread. A. Randomdude0000 (talk) 22:22, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, mainly for reasons presented by ArkHyena. I really do think that this one was far more significant and deadly than 1958's (because of the death toll, and although damage totals aren't in yet, I imagine that it'll be higher than Helene in 1958 because of its associated impacts across the Southeast, Southern Applachia, and Tennessee/Ohio Valleys). The impacts in those three regions probably already make this one as the primary topic, and yet they are still continuing (I'm experiencing some of it at the moment too), so I'm afraid we may see, at the least, further damage reports come in and only make this one more clearly significant than the 1958 Helene. ~ Tails Wx 21:31, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - per above and mainly per the nomination 96.236.149.251 (talk) 21:36, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy move per nomination and the emerging serious impact from the storm. --Minoa (talk) 21:39, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - This is absolutely a primary topic now and easily the most significant Helene we've had. Almost certain that this system will be retired come 2025. VantaWiki (talk) 21:48, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support I believe this storm has had just as much coverage as Beryl (possibly more), and this storm is also worse than Idalia and Debby combined in terms of deaths (likely also damages too). I have heard that this storm has been super devastating, and as others above have stated, I agree. 1958's Helene was not retired, 2024's Helene will most definitely be retired and has also been far deadlier than the 1958 storm. Helene, along with Beryl, will very likely be retired after 2024.VehicleandWeatherEnthusiast2022 (talk) 22:26, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral Claims that the name Helene will be retired or is almost certain are CRYSTAL without at least an indication that it is under consideration. Same applies to damage amounts not sourced. That said, it appears to be the most deadly storm named Helene by a significant amount and might be acceptable to move on that alone. --Super Goku V (talk) 22:22, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Done SNOW Requested move - FlightTime (open channel) 22:32, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can we close the discussion now? Hurricane Clyde 🌀my talk page! 22:36, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Unaccounted North Carolina deaths

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I've looked through many and many sources and I am still not able to find the other three deaths reported in North Carolina. Anyone got a clue what or where they came from and if they should be removed? Kline • talk • contribs 01:00, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I also searched as well, but none of them mention additional fatalities other than the three already mentioned and noted for North Carolina. I've changed the total back to 3 and the total count to 46+; the change was made here, as a side note. ~ Tails Wx 02:08, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Had trouble figuring out who it was since WWT doesn't do templates. Kline • talk • contribs 02:39, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Elijah(guy who runs the fatalities account on X) has not responded to my inquiry about sources. Wildfireupdateman (talk) 05:12, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WXFatalities as a source?

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im pretty sure this is a self published source, Well, it is tagged as unreliable but it also says that Elijah (the guy who runs the account) is usually reliable, but literally no other sources stated 52, the latest sources stated 46. SomeoneWiki04 (talk) 07:22, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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