Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Bands and musicians

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Bands and musicians

Nang Kalayar Aung

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Non-notable singer, as she has not even released a solo album or achieved any significant milestones in her music career. I could not find any reliable sources to support her notability, so she clearly fails WP:NSINGER. Hteiktinhein (talk) 06:07, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Myanmar-related deletion discussions. Hteiktinhein (talk) 06:13, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Women, and Advertising. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 06:38, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nang Kalayar Aung is notable within Myanmar, particularly in the entertainment and music industry. She has gained recognition for her contributions as a singer and model, especially for her work in Burmese cover songs, which are popular among local audiences. Her popularity stems from her performances at live events and her presence on platforms like YouTube, where she connects with her audience through her music

Myanmar Models DB

.

However, her international recognition might be limited, as most of her activities are centered within Myanmar. Her notability is significant in the context of Burmese music and modeling but may not extend broadly outside these circles without additional global exposure. For someone interested in Myanmar's contemporary music scene, she is a recognized figure worth exploring further. Waiyantunoo (talk) 08:08, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nang Kalayar Aung appears to be a notable figure due to her participation in high-profile events alongside well-known celebrities. In the context you provided, she is associated with prominent actors and celebrities such as Htoo Aung, Alinn Yaung, Kaung Myat San, Banyar Phyo Pyae, and Tayzar Linn Yaung at the grand opening of the 10th branch of the Thawara Win Sein Jewelry Store.

Being part of such an event suggests her influence or standing within the entertainment or public sphere. Her involvement with such notable figures and occasions indicates her recognition in social or professional circles.

check here Waiyantunoo (talk) 11:05, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Our guidelines on notability - especially for musicians - are Western-centric, without a doubt. But this singer fails those guidelines and so, at this time, is not notable per enwiki standards. I do have to add that Apple Music rendering the title of her song, "Bawa A Twat Nin" as "Bawa A T**t Nin" really, really made my day. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 13:33, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete for now. The subject doesn't meet WP:NSINGER at the moment– not even GNG either. Passing through the creater's talk page, I think they may have some sort of COI relations to the subject. Htanaungg (talk) 13:44, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Symphony of Heaven

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The more you look at sources, the more notability seems to be lacking. Many are based on band members' own words via interviews. Some other sources include articles written by band members themselves. Once you see past the notability mask smoke screen, the notability of this band appears quite thin and below meeting GNG. Also, the article was created by an undisclosed paid editing user. That editor appears to have a COI with this article. Graywalls (talk) 06:05, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Christianity, and Indiana. Graywalls (talk) 06:05, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This seems like a situation I've occasionally come across where an album might be more notable than a band. Season of Death has some significant coverage from HM, The Metal Resource, and Teeth of the Divine. That last one is currently being discussed at the reliable sources notice board. I noticed the review is written by the site owner, which would mean that it can't be used for any biographical statements. The site owner is a reputable music journalist, so that does confer notability to the album. however, apart from the album reviews, most of the other stuff I'm seeing is either press release copy, interviews from unreliable or self-published sources (which are fine for verifiable statements about the band but not for establishing notability), or COI sources (The Metal Onslaught and Indie Vision Music). I am leaning toward merge with Season of Death.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 12:28, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:ABOUTSELF. "unduly self serving" is often black and white, but there's grey area in some cases.

For example, "first luxury boutique hotel in town" citing the hotel's page or "a 100,000 lumen flash light released in 2024" citing the manufacturer's website of a light sold for $10 on Amazon. The former is fluffing, the latter is likely objectively inaccurate. However, citing the hotel's page "is a hotel in town xxx" or the flashlight's manufacturer's as "a flashlight release in 2024" would pass for factual accuracy. In 99.99% of cases, that flashlight's page has no place being cited or mentioned AT ALL on Wikipedia though. I think WP:RS is a concept unique to Wikipedia. Much of the sources in Symphony of Heaven don't substantiate inclusion worthiness even if factually accurate. Graywalls (talk) 21:14, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Basic biographical facts and album releases are fine to cite to the subject and those affiliated with the subject. But, if attributable to the subject, they don't give the subject notability. Verifiability isn't the same as notability. The flashlight hypothetical is a hypothetical and isn't relevant here.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done)

Waya Boy

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Non-notable musician, disputed draftification. Potentially created by an author with a COI but no firm evidence so cannot be re-draftified without discussion at AfD. Bobby Cohn (talk) 20:14, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Bands and musicians, and Uganda. Bobby Cohn (talk) 20:14, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked sockpuppet comments. See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Dan Merrony.

We do corrections, may not be notable enough but according to the few sourcs that are prominent publications. Let us not delete this page.

nent Isong records (talk) 20:39, 21 November 2024 (UTC) — Note to closing admin: Isong records (talk • contribs) appears to have a close connection with the subject of the article being discussed. [reply]

Their are a few features from reputable sources from the country of the the subject but thier is evidence of online presence and the subject has been verified on several social media platforms hence consider editing the article that deleting it. Thanks Bobby Colhn. Dan Merrony (talk) 20:23, 21 November 2024 (UTC) — Note to closing admin: Dan Merrony (talk • contribs) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this AfD. [reply]

I think it should not be deleted, we should make some correction though Marvokayz (talk) 20:35, 21 November 2024 (UTC) — Marvokayz (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Delete - fails WP:NMUSICIAN and WP:GNG. All sources are either promo pieces or self-published. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 20:57, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - does not meet WP:NMUSICIAN. I also cannot understand why the article creator created a mainspace article after already creating Draft:Waya Boy. I would also like the participation here of at least two other WP:SPA accounts to be noted. --Drm310 🍁 (talk) 21:25, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: I can only find the MBU source that talks about this person, strikes me as a PR item. The rest of the sources used are youtube, a google search and music streaming sites. I'm not seeing notability for this person, appears PROMO. Oaktree b (talk) 01:22, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - as per above. If one must use sock puppet accounts, then maybe one’s arguments are poor? Bearian (talk) 17:26, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jason Masi

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Fails WP:NSINGER. Fails WP:SIGCOV. No indication of significance. Been on the cat:nn list for 10+ years and no coverage. No band article as atd. References are extremely poor. scope_creep^Talk 13:21, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Virginia. Shellwood (talk) 13:33, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Searching only yields passing mentions of him in local coverage of charity events and websites for small venue performances. No music reviews or anything. Waddles 🗩 🖉 16:41, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tomohiro Hatta

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BLP. No indication of signifance. BLP prod removed. Fails WP:SIGCOV, WP:BIO. scope_creep^Talk 07:45, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Japan. Shellwood (talk) 11:45, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The La Donnas

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Fails WP:NBAND. Been on the cat:nn list for more than 10+ years. No indication of significance. scope_creep^Talk 08:05, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Colorado. Shellwood (talk) 11:45, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - They have a two-sentence biography at AllMusic ([1]) and a regional newspaper article ([2]), but that's all I can find beyond the usual streaming services and occasional blog posts. They're kind of close to notability but can't quite meet the WP:THREE standard for reliable sources. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 14:07, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I added 11 reviews directly to the article [3]; though mostly underground publications, the sample at least includes some of the more notable ones (Maximum Rocknroll) and from two continents. I'm curious to see if there is any newspapers.com coverage (which is not working at the moment.) Geschichte (talk) 15:14, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Are they WP:MUSICRS references, as a lot of them looks small blogs and profiles. scope_creep^Talk 15:20, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think any of them are blogs, but some of them are zines. Also I would have liked for the Allmusic review, for instance (and the Allmusic bio) to be a lot longer. Geschichte (talk) 15:50, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep sources identified by doomsdayer520 are a good start and Geschichte has found a number of reviews in a variety of sources, some of which are RSMUSIC. Sufficient presented here to presume notability. ResonantDis_tortion 23:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Eva Kurowski

AfDs for this article:

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Fails WP:SIGCOV, WP:BIO, WP:SINGER. No indication of significance.Single ref is a profile. Been on the cat:nn list for 10+ years, never been updated. No coverage. scope_creep^Talk 08:24, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Germany. Shellwood (talk) 11:44, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 11:52, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: The article hasn't developed since the no-consensus AfD 13 years ago, and the de.wiki one is similar. As far as I can see, the subject continues working, in duo and band with a pianist, Dirk Balthaus; I don't see indication of meeting WP:MUSICBIO. The previous AfD had the unresolved issue of whether the Das Hungertuch Künstlerpreis was sufficient to indicate notability as an author: I notice the de.wiki article on that Prize was itself deleted later in 2012. AllyD (talk) 09:51, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can someone with access to the website and/or German-language proficiency help assess these articles from Westdeutsche Allgemeine Zeitung (WAZ): [4][5][6]? These [7][8] seem to be about her book (and an exhibit) on her relationship with her father, artist Walter Kurowski [de]. There are some other WAZ articles that are marked as "local", but I've only included the ones categorized at the city level. Bridget (talk) 01:09, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Its not a lot to base notability on. It all seems to local news. The book may be notable. I see its published by Rowohlt which is an old established publisher, potentially indication of pass as WP:NAUTHOR. I don't think these add upto much. There is a couple of event listings and promo for the book. There could me here though. scope_creep^Talk 04:23, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Etty Lau Farrell

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Fails WP:ANYBIO and WP:GNG, article is a biography of a person whose biggest claim to fame is being married to a notable musician. Sources presented are articles on Perry Farrell and Jane's Addiction (more than a few of which don't even mention Etty at all), primary interviews, passing mentions, etc. The sources with the most dedicated coverage to her here are a Forbes contributor article and a Wordpress blog (neither of which are in any way acceptable for BLP articles, see WP:FORBESCON and WP:WORDPRESS), virtually none of the others establish notability. Given the WP:BLP problems at play here, including numerous sections of unsourced content about the living subject, as well as the aforementioned WP:SIGCOV issues (which WP:BEFORE could not help alleviate, since most of the standalone coverage that a search could turn up is about her commentary on a single controversy from around the same period), this person is unworthy of an article. JeffSpaceman (talk) 00:38, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Perry Farrell#personal life per WP:ATD. The only sourcing I could find were all WP:TABLOID articles.4meter4 (talk) 04:14, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Bands and musicians, Women, Dance, Television, Hong Kong, California, and Washington. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:14, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Perry Farrell#personal life. I am very familiar with Jane's Addiction so I know this story. Etty Lau does have some of her own accomplishments in dance and music, but usually these are only mentioned briefly in lists of credits for the works of more famous collaborators. She occasionally makes the news for involvement in her husband's management but it tends to be in the form of celebrity gossip (e.g. [9], [10]). She's closer to her own notability than it might appear at first glance, but there is not enough reliable and independent coverage to sustain an encyclopedic article. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 13:55, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fleas and Lice

AfDs for this article:

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Non-notable band. They have one CD on a possibly marginally notable label, but that's it. The previous AfD was from 2006 and it does not disappoint--"keep" votes range from "they toured intensely", sourced to the now-defunct band web site, to "I have heard of them and I'm not a crust punk fan do they must be notable". There is no secondary sourcing in the article and I didn't find any either using Google News--a regular Google search provides nothing but the usual hits for bands: primary material, Discogs, Reddit. Drmies (talk) 18:53, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Netherlands. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:57, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. There is, of course, coverage in their city's newspaper, Nieuwsblad van het Noorden ([11], [12]), and there are mentions in 3voor12, for example ([13], [14]). But I wasn't able to find enough coverage to establish notability. toweli (talk) 20:33, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - As found by the previous voter, the band has some homeotwn announcements and basic interviews, but they have little historical or critical coverage with which to build an encyclopedic article. And by the way, every working band goes on tour but that's not notable unless the reliable music media reports on it. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 13:47, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ervin Nagy

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Not suitable for WP:N, he is not a known pianist in Hungary, there is no article about him in Hungarian Wikipedia. His name is the same as a famous hungarian actor's, so this article just makes confusion. Also a stub, and self-promotion, his personal website included. Only sources about him are not indepedent or just databases. He has a video in YouTube, with only few thousand viewers so far. Hörgő (talk) 18:28, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Hungary. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:37, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - He's a working musician with regular teaching and composing gigs, and occasional recitals that are announced in local newspapers, but this article is clearly an attempted promotion and his career has not been noticed by reliable media. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 13:41, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Joshua Sales

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I have carried out WP:BEFORE for this article about a session musician, and not found references to add. I do not think the existing references demonstrate that he meets WP:GNG, WP:ANYBIO or WP:NMUSICIAN. There is no obvious redirect target. Tacyarg (talk) 15:29, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Bands and musicians, Music, and Tennessee. Tacyarg (talk) 15:29, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Funkefeller

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Article about a not-notable electronica producer. Of the article's 5 references, 1 is to their non-notable label's website, and the other four are all blog articles written by that label in a community feed. Also, he seems to have started the label himself the same year this article was written. The Wikipedia article seems to have long outlasted the artist and their label, all because they formatted five references that looked legit at a glance. Here2rewrite (talk) 14:30, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Bands and musicians, and Arizona. – The Grid (talk) 14:36, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, does not seem to be anything to suggest notability.TheLongTone (talk) 15:30, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Well, the article has five sources, four of which are red per Cite Highlighter, so non-notable (the Beatport ones). Gsearch is straight to streaming sites of every variety, and Gnews has nada. This funky fellow doesn't seem to meet notability, but the music does seem pretty interesting. Oaktree b (talk) 21:41, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jeriq

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The subject of this article fails WP:GNG and WP:MUSICBIO. He is the still an up-and-coming artist who has not been gain significant coverage to warrant a separate article. Some of the sources cited in the article are just press releases, others are unreliable blogs. The only promising source in the article, The Cable Lifestyle, isn't independent of the subject. Versace1608 ^{Wanna Talk?} 16:38, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Nigeria. Versace1608 ^{Wanna Talk?} 16:38, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - The Sun Nigeria is a potentially reliable source, but none of the other references contribute to significant coverage. Maybe just too soon. Bearian (talk) 05:55, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Seongju Oh

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Delete – article has no substantive references, and it looks a bit as though it is derived largely from what is on the official website (https://seongjuoh.com/biography/). I have not been able to find, during WP:BEFORE, decent independent secondary sources to establish or support the subject’s notability with respect to WP:BIO or WP:NMUSIC – N.B. he has been a member of two notable ensembles, but I am not sure that he would class as a "reasonably prominent" member. There are a lot of listings type sources, but I could find nothing like critical reviews of the his performances or compositions. It is possible that god sources in German or Korean exist, in which case I would happily rescind my recommendation to delete. SunloungerFrog (talk) 14:01, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and South Korea. Shellwood (talk) 16:15, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Warren Hue

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Relying on self-promotional press releases without significant coverage from independent, reliable sources. Fails WP:GNG Pridemanty (talk) 04:27, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Pridemanty (talk) 04:27, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I found one good album review here: [15] He also gets a decent brief critical nod in this Pitchfork review on another artist's album on which he was a guest performer. If a few more decent references are found he could be notable. Best.4meter4 (talk) 05:31, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Indonesia. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 07:25, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:22, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Deepanshi Yadav

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Fails WP:SINGER. Bbb23 (talk) 15:44, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Women, and Uttar Pradesh. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 16:08, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - a made up in one day award for up and coming but ultimately run of the mill singer. Sourcing is the usual deprecated India advertorial media. Bearian (talk) 05:09, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: There's no independent coverage and the award doesn't seem significant either. Jeraxmoira🐉 (talk) 07:08, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I haven't been able to find any reliable, independent sources, and there is no real claim to notability in the article. It is too soon for an article. --bonadea contributions talk 11:50, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Appears to be a case of WP:TOOSOON.4meter4 (talk) 15:32, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Nothing to establish WP:NSINGER here. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 20:59, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Track Bangas

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Unsourced, lack of notability, was unable to find any reliable sources demonstrating notability. Waxworker (talk) 13:08, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Massachusetts. Waxworker (talk) 13:08, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Very PROMO, only sourced to their website. Nothing else found, no sourcing seems to talk about this outfit/company. Oaktree b (talk) 15:37, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Kaizenify (talk) 09:06, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete UNSOURCED since 2011? Oh, good grief. No RS, no SIGCOV, no GNG, no keep this article. (Just to add, search throws up the usual soundcloud/Discogs stuff). Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 09:56, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Unsourced promo written by one of the main subjects of the article. — Maile (talk) 14:06, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I am only able to find passing mentions of them in news articles/music reviews for Yelawolf. Waddles 🗩 🖉 16:15, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Home Town Hero

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I wasn't able to find significant coverage of the subject in reliable sources, other than a biography ([16]) and an album review ([17]) by AllMusic, which isn't a lot. A possible alternative to deletion is a redirect to Under the Influence of Giants, since three of the members were in both bands. toweli (talk) 21:25, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, United States of America, and California. toweli (talk) 21:25, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The group meets WP:MUSIC with two releases on Maverick Records, and the Allmusic entries are serviceable references; they also toured nationally with Stone Temple Pilots and Linkin Park. I managed to dig up [18] this review as well, even though it's gotten very difficult to find album reviews from 20+ years ago on the Internet. Chubbles (talk) 17:33, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
According to a member of Under the Influence of Giants, Bitch City was never released ([19]; according to Discogs it was apparently self-released [20]). Regardless, notability is not inherited, and I don't see Linkin Park mentioned anyway. I don't know if ink19 is a reliable source, but even if it is, there's just not enough coverage to establish notability. toweli (talk) 15:01, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Leaning ~~Keep~~ as presuming MUSICBIO notability per above coverage, and given the age presuming that further coverage is likely. Further evidence is an album review available in Hits 2002; critical coverage Hits 2001; and the CMJ new music reports indicate extensive airplay, including for example: [21]. There's a lot of hits on worldradiohistory that will take time to sift. ResonantDis_tortion 18:48, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've identified further coverage on ProQuest - not major sigcov, but better than passing mentions: Detroit Free Press - they "often bore", two paragraph gig review supporting Incubus in News Gazette, album review in Morning Call, and paragraph of coverage in Billboard. ResonantDis_tortion 21:40, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Aaron Bruno#Home Town Hero. First, they did not release two albums on Maverick, only one. Second, I think the reviews and other coverage falls just short of the depth that would be required. I also found more reviews, [22] [23] but as you can see these are not reliable or significant enough. Last but not least, we lack independent sources for nearly all the band history. A merger would preserve the edit history and it can be revived later if more sources are scanned/made available. Geschichte (talk) 11:21, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and Redirect. I can get behind this as an WP:ATD, and strike my previous !vote to keep. There is certainly sufficient reliable coverage to demonstrate a level of notability, and therefore the subject does warrant a presence on Wikipedia, but we are, at current standing, one in-depth article away from coverage to support a distinct seperate article. ResonantDis_tortion 18:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 22:52, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Under the Influence of Giants as an ATD, per nom. Although I do have SOME reservations based on the lack of sourcing and notability in that target: it's a hot wee mess, that article... Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 11:50, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Davide Lombardi

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A draft that was moved into mainspace. It's mostly sourced with press releases. A WP:BEFORE search failed. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 02:47, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Engineering, and Italy. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 02:47, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep. Passes WP:SIGCOV (barely). There definitely needs to be some serious pruning of bad promotional sources and writing, reformatting of the article, editing for encyclopedic tone, etc. However, there are four articles among the references which are independent significant coverage about Davide Lombardi; three of which are in the LightSoundJournal, which is a professional publication for light and audio engineers, and one of which is from an Italian media source. He works as a sound engineer for notable artists, so I am leaning on the keep side.4meter4 (talk) 03:30, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@4meter4 That's a valid point; however, a reminder to anyone else reading this that Lombardi doesn't inherit notability from the people he works with. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 04:30, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
His notability comes through his work within his business. From the references you can see he is one of the most successful people in his own business, hence the amount of interviews and big Artists names that employ him for major projects, similar to most articles with notable knowledge, but yet not in the mainstream of press like TV stars. if that makes sense? Fabrizio Di Ninni 1982 (talk) 09:50, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Fabrizio Di Ninni 1982 Getting interviewed and working with big stars don't mean you qualify for a Wikipedia article (or, to speak Wikipedian, whether or not you're "notable). Of course, whether or not you qualify is separate from whether or not you're doing important work. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 19:04, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete They are all interviews - and in trade media, at that. The other sources are blogs or references to events where the subject has worked. Doesn't pass WP:GNG. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 08:36, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. it is good to point out that as well as interviews, there are dedicated articles to Davide Lombardi and they are all from independent significant coverage Worldwide, USA, UK, Germany Italy to name the most relevant ones. We can see on Wikipedia similar subjects with less references from similar sources. Fabrizio Di Ninni 1982 (talk) 09:45, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 03:41, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Probably worth to mention his notoriety is acclaimed by being an international award winner from ProsoundNews, while also nominated twice from TPi Awards from TPiMagazine, by MondialeMedia. They are both two of the most prestigious international prizes in audio engineering. Fabrizio Di Ninni 1982 (talk) 10:02, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Amie Jo Bishop

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Came across this because of its use of paid/vanity coverage in the Bru Times News. Apart from that source, the article has two reviews in the Northwest Arkansas Democrat-Gazette. Although I take these reviews somewhat seriously, I think that reviews in one publication falls short of WP:NCREATIVE and/or WP:NMUSIC. There is also an interview in a source of uncertain reliability, and several citations to the discography of the subject. It looks WP:TOOSOON to me at best. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 17:25, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Arkansas. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 17:25, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers and Women. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:49, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - WP:MUSICBIO requires evidence of touring nationwide; two local articles from Arkansas is insufficient for significant coverage. Bearian (talk) 04:18, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I found this topic notable and meets WP:NBIO. Sufikoin (talk) 11:07, 20 November 2024 (UTC) — Note to closing admin: Sufikoin (talk • contribs) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this XfD. [reply]
Can you explain how they meet BIO? Oaktree b (talk) 21:39, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hey man im josh (talk) 18:24, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Not meeting GNG... Her instagram has a whole of 120 something followers and the lack of any kind of sourcing outside Arkansas shows that this individual isn't notable. I don't find anything about her music. Oaktree b (talk) 21:38, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The J-Gos

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I do not think that this hyperlocal band meets NCREATIVE or GNG. I see one review in a hyperlocal newpaper, and little else of substance. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 10:11, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and California. Shellwood (talk) 11:31, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Kaizenify (talk) 06:30, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I'm torn on this one. On the one hand, we have many critical reviews in local press (many fromThe Argonaut in San Francisco and Venice Vanguard and Los Angeles Village View in Los Angeles) which arguably meet WP:SIGCOV and criteria 1 of WP:NBAND. On the other hand, the coverage is all to events which could be seen as too local (ie small venues, etc), and we should maybe not consider it significant on that basis. However, there's also the fact that the band randomly did make it on Papua New Guinea's national music chart which would mean it passes criteria 2 of WP:NBAND. In the end this throws it over to the keep side for me.4meter4 (talk) 07:40, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shakir Pichler

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Article contains no reliable sources, has been marked as such for over 4 years. I've looked for sources but have been unable to find anything reliable or reputable, Google News, Newspapers and Books turns up nothing at all. Current text is likely original research, possibly advertising - suspicion they've been written by the person the article is about. Also question the notability. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Halfwaywrong (talk • contribs) 13:12, 12 November 2024

Delete - seems self-promotional, not even 130 results on Google Search. Not much on Google News either, bunch of social media links or brief mentions. starship.paint (talk / cont) 13:24, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Bands and musicians, and Australia. Skynxnex (talk) 17:15, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Starship.paint. and Halfwaywrong.

I was a bit surprised to see this page nominated for deletion out of the blue after its been online since I think 2007 or so.

There are currently About 1,570 results in google for "Shakir Pichler" in quotes and that's not including the extraneous ones if googled without quotes.

The sources are reliable - IMDB for example but I think it could do with some proper formatting perhaps.

I have edited it from time to time when others have added incorrect data as well as removing old social links like myspace from the days of old :) and this page is also linked on various other wiki pages band line-ups and feature films for example.

It's certainly not being used for 'self promotion' in any way but it is factual of someone who has made a worthy contribution to both Australian music as well as Australian and Hollywood feature films so not sure why it was targeted to be honest.

There are a bunch of other credible links I could provide when I have the time and I should edit the page to make it more up to date at some point.

Anyway, again, it's definitely not 'self promotional' just because I made sure it was factual.

I'd love some help in adding all the proper ref links (film credits) (Band credits) and things to make sure it adheres to any changing wiki regulations.

Thank you. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 01:53, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Sexbeatrecords: - allow me to acquaint you with WP:RSP, where you can see that WP:IMDB is in fact generally unreliable. I suggest you find reliable sources to bolster the article. starship.paint (talk / cont) 11:18, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Starship.paint. Thanks. Wow, I always thought IMDB was highly ranked but good to know.

Every film credited on this wiki page is verifiable on each feature film's official imdb sub page but interesting to know it's not a reliable link even though some of the titles are big Hollywood movies.

Hopefully there are links to each film's official info separately somewhere although I have no idea where to look. The production companies involved perhaps?

WP:RSP does mention that there are exceptions to the unreliable sources. I would have thought that each film's official IMDB entry would be ok? like for one example "Jasper Jones" and then view all cast and crew to see "Shakir Pichler' listed as action vehicles coordinator. etc https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5091014/ Or still not good?

As I mentioned, I'd love to clean up the formatting of this page to adhere to Wiki's best practice. And how to add and format proper inline links...

Thanks again for your quick reply and advice. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 08:19, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Sexbeatrecords: - actually the main concern here is WP:GNG. To put it in a different way, is Shakir Pichler a notable (prominent/important/distinguished) person? Wikipedia does not seek to write entries for everyone on Earth. If Shakir Pichler is notable, reliable sources will write about him. There will be journal articles, books, newspaper articles, magazine articles. It is up to you to prove that Shakir Pichler is notable by receiving reliable source coverage. starship.paint (talk / cont) 08:26, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A lot of people seem to think so!

Considering how many Australian bands he has played and recorded/released albums with, released music videos aired on shows like ABC RAGE and interviewed multiple times on radio stations like Triple J & then there is the film industry side - considering how many feature films he has been THE action vehicles coordinator of and in also appearing IN some of these films, he should absolutely have a wiki entry that documents and links with these achievements. Bit surprised this is even in contention tbh.

There are lots of newspaper articles regarding Shakir Pichler in those bands in hard copy that go back to the mid 1980's that are not available online. 157.211.92.236 (talk) 12:30, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
city of sydney library https://library.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/Montage/Music.aspx?keyword=shakir+pichler&method=0&sort=1003&refinements= Sexbeatrecords (talk) 12:57, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again.

I found 2 pages that speak about Shakir Pichler in The Encyclopedia Of Australian Rock And Pop which is the Oz music Bible for want of a better word.

You are welcome to 'borrow' it for free digitally if you don't have it - the book is mentioned here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encyclopedia_of_Australian_Rock_and_Pop

You can borrow it here https://openlibrary.org/works/OL2288124W/The_encyclopedia_of_Australian_rock_and_pop

About Shakir Pichler in the kryptonics - page 352

And about Shakir Pichler in The bamboos - page 39

I will keep looking for other links when I have more time. That is a good one. Great book to have too.

Shakir Pichler also mentioned on Whammo encyclopedia in the Bamboos https://web.archive.org/web/20040427212519/http://www.whammo.com.au/encyclopedia.asp?articleid=68

And also in the Kryptonics here https://web.archive.org/web/20040807052007/http://www.whammo.com.au/encyclopedia.asp?articleid=997

These were two VERY important original bands from Perth who toured, released and contributed and pioneered WA's rich musical tapestry of original music nationally and internationally. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 12:52, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

History of Australian music https://historyofaussiemusic.blogspot.com/search?q=kryptonics

Also Nick Sheppard - the guitarist from seminal UK Punk band THE CLASH even mentions Shakir Pichler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Sheppard Sexbeatrecords (talk) 13:02, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Sexbeatrecords: - the whammo sources (which, I believe, are the exact same as the Encyclopedia of Australian Rock and Pop by Ian McFarlane) do not provide WP:SIGCOV significant coverage, they just mention Pichler very briefly: Kryptonics ... Shakir Pichler (drums) / Bamboos ... In 1986, Shakir Pichler replaced Tony Chiallella on drums ... 1987 ... Russell Hopkinson (ex-Vicious Circle) had replaced Pichler on drums. Blogspot is not a reliable source. Wikipedia is not a reliable source. starship.paint (talk / cont) 14:08, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. An admin Didier Landner very kindly added more references to the page and voted .Keep

There are also hard copy books that mention Shakir Pichler and also a few of his bands.

One is this one https://repressedrecords.com/products/george-matzkov-way-out-west-the-west-australian-pop-rock-blues-music-scene-1960-1979-book-cd which I no longer have for some reason (probably lent it and forgot) .

Also found Shakir's youtube page has a long radio interview with him live on 6UVS-FM (now RTR FM) From Perth 1986! All about the Bamboos and their massive east coast tour which was great to listen to just now! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5fNppILFGY

I have reached out to a friend who may be able to contact Shakir to see if they can get him to send any links we don't know about that would add to his credits or newspaper clippings etc if that is possible to even use if he has them. Shakir was regularly interviewed in Australian newspapers and radio stations but can't seem to find archives easily to show this.

Either way, he is an important part of Australian music history and in everyones opinion who knew his bands would absolutely agree. Yes Indie music is niche and I understand that your may not have heard of him or his bands but that only makes his contributions to Oz music more important to retain as it wasn't commercial mainstream homogenised music that everyone knows. SO wiki is a great way to learn about the WA and Australian live music scene in general.

I have been a fan of his bands since the 80's and still have all his records on vinyl to this day.

I can't vote but thats my 2c anyway :) 157.211.92.236 (talk) 14:43, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Found a few more via trove. There's too many links to Shakir pichler to sift through though. This will take time.

howlin moondoggies https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20071126223011/http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/44131/20071122-0001/www.amo.org.au/artistedc4.html

The Bamboos paying with Johnny Thunders. https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20200527150202/http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/182658/20200526-1156/australianrockreview.com/2010/11/07/lifting-the-lid-on-the-rockbrat-treasure-chest-johnny-thunders-1986-sydney-gig-adverts/index9657.html

Shakir Pichler mentioned here [24]

About Shakir Pichlers legendary Rosemount Rumble https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20180318110116/http://rosemounthotel.com.au/event/rosemount-rumble-46/

Shakir photo from 1985 Kryptonics here https://www.forcedexposure.com/Artists/KRYPTONICS.html Sexbeatrecords (talk) 15:27, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Still lacking WP:SIGCOV for the above links. Howlin' MoonDoggies has one (or if you are charitable, two) sentence on Pichler. Bamboos is some sort of an online comment left by Pichler. Rosemount has one sentence on Pichler. Kyptonics has one sentence on Pichler. The photo is just a photo and does not even mention Pichler. starship.paint (talk / cont) 14:22, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Found a digitised newspaper clipping of a big scandal that was reported in quite a few newspapers for some weeks regarding Shakir's scandalous departure from the band 'The Bamboos' mid-tour East coast tour!

From memory, this was big news in the music industry at the time and people still talk about it today. Daily News: Friday October 17th 1986 [25] is one such story. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 22:49, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Allmusic ref Shakir Pichler in the story about how the Kryptonics formed etc. [26] 157.211.92.236 (talk) 10:01, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delicious Design does offer some coverage on Pichler, but it is essentially this: he quit his band without telling them, and they cancelled their tour. That's all. It's not very much. Allmusic just mentions him thrice. It is not WP:SIGCOV. starship.paint (talk / cont) 14:28, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 12:17, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I've add references (McFarlane and Kent) to support subject's membership of two notable bands. Hence, passes Wikipedia:Notability (music)#6 per "is a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles".Didier Landner (talk) 05:40, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent! 157.211.92.236 (talk) 13:12, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please do not delete!

I am a high school teacher in Perth and Shakir was invited to be a special guest at our Montessori school last year to talk about life in bands and also all the films he worked on and appeared in.

To this day, a year later, the kids all say it was the best day they have had at school!

He showed parts of all the films he worked on as the action vehicles coordinator as well as the parts he also appeared in and then showed us all the music videos of the bands he has played in and then gave a drum performance and some lessons for the kids!

The students have regularly used his Wikipedia page for reference in various home-work and projects since. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 45.118.65.6 (talk) 02:08, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Anyone wants to take a look at the sources added to the article since nomination?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vanderwaalforces (talk) 15:38, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - @Vanderwaalforces: - I reviewed all the links in the article as of this version. References 1, 2, 3, 5 do not provide WP:SIGCOV. Reference 4 is an offline book but based on Google Books, the book is a Chronological listing of popular recordings ... Provides information on how many times the recording appeared in the charts and the highest position it reached. It is unlikely that it provides SIGCOV either. This link in the article provides one instance of somewhat SIGCOV but only says that Pichler quit his band unannounced in Sydney, and his band cancelled their tour. The Who's who of Australian rock book is an offline resource and I cannot confirm if there is any SIGCOV. starship.paint (talk / cont) 14:44, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cheema Y

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Likely to fail WP:NMUSIC KH-1 (talk) 06:03, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

any reasons to delete it ?

i can show you wikipedia pages that have no reference at all that people are not even famous.

but rightnow in north india this singer trending on number one.

give reasons to delete it mr.editor.

thanks. 2001:56B:3FFA:2FFE:C955:65B4:E1FE:305F (talk) 10:24, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please list any pages that don't have sourcing or unfamous people, that's also meaning they should at least be tagged for notability, perhaps deleted. Thank you for your help. Oaktree b (talk) 15:44, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That response comes across as quite immature. Are you really suggesting using other articles as justification for keeping this one? That’s not how we determine whether an article should be deleted. This is Wikipedia, and popularity alone doesn’t equal notability. I suggest familiarizing yourself with Wikipedia's notability guidelines before making such arguments. — MimsMENTOR ^talk 08:39, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and India. Shellwood (talk) 11:01, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Punjab and California. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 11:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep

This musical artist is very popular in India. I have noticed a general trend over both wikipedia and wikidata, that artists who are popular in countries outside of the USA are often deleted due to not meeting "notability criteria" despite them often being in the top 10 of popular artists in their own country, especially for artists from India or Africa.

There are lots of articles on the internet showing his popularity from independent well respected sources e.g.

Please consider keeping this entry. Thank you. QWER9875 (talk) 10:02, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Benison (Beni · talk) 06:47, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Article is dominated with references to music chat websites which I do not know their reliability status. Only three sources in the article are not music chat websites. This one here[27] is the only source that could count for notability but this unfortunately is not enough. The other two left, one is interview and the other advertorial. Mekomo (talk) 11:16, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Smells of promotion with the flowery language. I'm not sure he's gained much attention as there isn't much of anything in RS. He's briefly mentioned here [28], I can only find Times of India articles that are problematic for the usual reasons. Oaktree b (talk) 15:42, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Brent David Fraser

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I have carried out WP:BEFORE and added some references to this previously-unreferenced BLP of an actor. These are passing mentions, however. I do not think he meets WP:NACTOR, WP:ANYBIO or WP:GNG. Tacyarg (talk) 18:01, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Actors and filmmakers, Bands and musicians, and Washington. Tacyarg (talk) 18:01, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Like the nominator, I was unable to find any significant coverage of Fraser, just cast listings and brief mentions in movie reviews. The closest to any biographical information was a Seattle Times movie review that added "Bellingham-raised" to his name (because it's local). (ProQuest 385333344) Not a notable actor at this time. Schazjmd (talk) 18:12, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Note, often credited as the shorter name Brent Fraser. Satisfies NACTOR with significant roles in Wild Orchid II: Two Shades of Blue (as Brent Fraser, and Dead & Breakfast. (When I am able I will add sourcing that verifies that). Mentions in reviews is an important part of judging actors. They act in things. That's what they are known for. That's the sort of thing that should be in encyclopaedias. Who'd they play and in what. duffbeerforme (talk) 05:36, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 20:04, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nomination. I’m hoping for the promised citations, but not holding my breath for a week. Bearian (talk) 05:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Finally managed to get some sources onto the page. then there is also [29], [30], [31] and [32] (last has a quote from New York Times). duffbeerforme (talk) 07:00, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tararam

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Mostly unreferenced topic, with unclear notability. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 04:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Hebrew Wikipedia article has 27 references. Left guide (talk) 05:46, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Israel. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 06:24, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - This is not "mostly unreferenced," , furthermore, it should be noted that notability is not related to the current state of the article. As Left Guide noted, the Hebrew article has plenty of sources. The topic meets the threshold of notability. Whizkin (talk) 06:47, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 08:05, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 07:29, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Have you actually seen the Hebrew sources? "SAP Israel concluded a year"??? "SanDisk celebrates Bar Mitzvah"??? Every time they've played at a corporate shindig? Every corporate campaign that uses them? The article about "a unique internet campaign for Cellcom" doesn't even MENTION Tararam? No SIGCOV, no hit record, no chart placement, no major tour, no major media recognition. There's literally nothing here beyond a local ensemble often hired by tech corporates to play at their junkets. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 12:23, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mattin

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I wasn't able to find significant coverage of the subject in reliable sources, and the external links in the article don't help establish notability (as they're either Mattin's website or interviews). Interestingly, the article was created by User:Mattata, whose only mainspace edits involve creating this article. toweli (talk) 17:45, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Literature, Music, and Spain. toweli (talk) 17:45, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: There is some coverage in The Wire, albeit paywalled. From the magazine's index, issue 267 (2006) looks to have the most coverage of the subject. More recently, there was a book review a year ago, in issue 476. AllyD (talk) 12:24, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:29, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 20:05, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Soft keep, I would be inclined to delete normally, due to the probable conflict of interest noted by the nominator, the sources shown by AllyD appear to display notability. -Samoht27 (talk) 21:31, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete (for now). I did find two books with some content: 1) Audio Culture, Revised Edition: Readings in Modern Music. United States: Bloomsbury Publishing, 2017 - pp. 406-409. 2) Kádár, Dániel Z.. Politeness, Impoliteness and Ritual: Maintaining the Moral Order in Interpersonal Interaction. N.p.: Cambridge University Press, 2017 (one page). I don't think this rises to notability at this time. He did write a chapter in a book but it doesn't seem to be a book that has had an impact. Lamona (talk) 00:30, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Neon Hunk

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/Neon Hunk

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I believe this article should be deleted for a few reasons; the first and most major is notability. I do not believe, at least as of this time, this duo is notable enough to have a page on Wikipedia. The article lacks sources, only featuring one that was put in the article in 2015. I've searched for sources to add to the article and can only find one article, a Pitchfork review, on an album they published, rather than the duo themselves. The article uses non-neutral language, such as "other noise/freak weirdos". It also contains a lot of unsourced speculation, stating that part of the duo is working on a full-length album, but this has never been published or confirmed by any source. Most of the wikilinks on the article go to non-existant pages, and no pages for the discography of the duo exist at all. This page has existed for years (since 2004 according to the edit history) and in that time, no verifiable and trustworthy sources have given notable information about the duo. Beachweak (talk) 11:27, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Wisconsin. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 11:46, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment there's a Pitchfork review ([33]) and an AllMusic review ([34]). toweli (talk) 11:52, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

These reviews are focused on an album created by the duo, Smarmymob, rather than the duo themselves. Beachweak (talk) 13:44, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough, I was just noting the existence of two reviews. Leaning delete, unless more sources are found. toweli (talk) 18:37, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

delete no sources to establish notability. --Altenmann >talk 18:07, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep. Also found reviews of Smarmymob in Stylus Magazine [35], Dusted Magazine [36], Suburban Voice [37] and this more trivial output: [38] and this one: [39] @Beachweak of course reviews are of albums. Albums are what musicians make. Do you propose an article is written about the album instead? Geschichte (talk) 20:23, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think if there are enough reviews of the album (which there are proving to be), an article could be written about Smarmymob; however, the article on the duo themselves doesn't seem notable enough to be kept, at least as of right now. It's ten years old and only has one, weak source. Beachweak (talk) 21:48, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Do you agree that Neon Hunk then should be preserved as a redirect to Smarmybob, failing a keep outcome here? Geschichte (talk) 11:53, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not a bad idea to turn the page into a redirect rather than deleting it entirely; somebody would have to write the article on the album, though. Maybe delete the page until an article is published and then turn it into a redirect? Beachweak (talk) 12:12, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note that under WP:A9, if the band/musician is non-notable and has no article, then an article for their album needs solid evidence that it has significance. I'm not sure if the few scattered reviews for Smarmybob will suffice. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 13:50, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How many would it need? As far as getting reviews go, it doesn't get much more significant than Pitchfork, and I think the other ones look very promising in sum. I'm somewhat struggling to take the proposition seriously that an album with Pitchfork, Allmusic and other reviews would be regarded as a speedy candidate. Geschichte (talk) 20:17, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In my view, WP:A9 is there for a reason. An album article is not particularly encyclopedic when an interested reader cannot learn more about the band because they're not notable enough for their own article. That's my take on this side discussion about the album, and otherwise I am undecided about deleting or keeping the band and will have to leave it at that. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 14:19, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The issue isn't about the album; my proposition is to delete the page ABOUT the duo. In the future, there could be an article written about the album, but the duo Neon Hunk, at least right now, are not very notable source wise. If you review the article right now, there is one source that isn't very descriptive (and currently leads to a 404). Apart from that, the entire article is unsourced. I still think it should be deleted unless more sources about the duo are found. Beachweak (talk) 20:33, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was replying to Doomsdayer Geschichte (talk) 12:25, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 15:43, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 19:55, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments: as a rule, I ask that proponents of new sources to keep an article be included for me to evaluate the results for WP: HEY. Bearian (talk) 05:50, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:56, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ilan Lukatch

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

BLP of a journalist that seems to me to lack support from in depth coverage in independent sources. Appears borderline so bringing here for consensus. Mccapra (talk) 19:45, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Journalism and Israel. Mccapra (talk) 19:45, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Television. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:50, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. There are 10 independent sources in the Hebrew article, which, together, seem sufficient to establish notability. Whizkin (talk) 11:58, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes but the ten sources in Hebrew are absolutely dire:

1. Is a piece by him, not independent coverage of him

2. Is a passing mention of him in a band he played in in 1988

3. Doesn’t mention him

4. Passing mention in a brief listing

5. Passing mention

6. Doesn’t mention him

7. Doesn’t mention him

8. Interview with him (his first interview ever)

9. Decent, if rather brief, third party source

10. No longer accessible but looks decent.

That’s not enough to build a stand alone bio article on and it does look like the original creator of the Hebrew article was desperately scraping around for any mention they could find. Mccapra (talk) 13:29, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that those sources are sub-optimal. Whizkin (talk) 18:21, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. OR biography of a professional at work. The Hebrew article is refbombed. Our article is shorter, so there are less references, yet what we have is equally a mixed bag. gidonb (talk) 03:39, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:14, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 20:48, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Fails WP:SIGCOV.4meter4 (talk) 15:15, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Kaoli Isshiki

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Fails WP:SIGCOV. No significant coverage in any of the sources. Two of the three cited sources don't even mention the subject, and the one source that does simply lists her as one of several singers in a chamber choir (she is one of four singers in the soprano section). 4meter4 (talk) 01:59, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Women. 4meter4 (talk) 01:59, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Japan and France. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 06:31, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I looked as promised, don't know yet. Solo appearance at the BBC Proms is at least something. I added some external links to check out. Her repertoire seems off the beaten track, plenty contemporary, and we might want to support that. I found the ref from which most of the article was taken and reworded. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:53, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
adding: the French article has 24 references. I guess that some are those I also found (now in external links). Will look closer tomorrow, but someone knowing French might be more more successful. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:21, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: I haven't looked at those yet, but the English article is now referenced. For me, she is notable enough, having made interesting recordings, with notable ensembles and conductors, and only favourable reviews. She is not a diva-type soprano: that should not be a reason to delete. The article serves many links to music that is not normally in focus, both Baroque as contemporary. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:12, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For the French sources, I need help to not misread the French:
1. [40] This Le Monde article says that she won a prize.
2. [41] This is a more detailed review of her singing (not just "outstanding").
3. [42] recital
4. [43] recording --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:32, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Gerda Arendt I don't think this in-depth enough to meet WP:SIGCOV. The last source is selling her CD and is not independent or significant coverage. The prod-s.com website also lacks independence. The Le Monde article spends half a sentence on her, and is a smaller not all that notable prize. The main prize went to another performer, Richard Rittelman, who deservedly is the focus of that article. Only the anaclase.com source approaches significant coverage (and honestly it isn't long enough to be considered in-depth as it devotes less than a paragraph of the article to her performance). Laurent Cuniot is the main subject of that article not Isshiki. There's not enough here to pass WP:NSINGER or WP:GNG or WP:ANYBIO.4meter4 (talk) 21:15, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is Wikipedia only for those who win first prize? - This is a performer of several unusual recordings, and performances in Paris, Brussels, Proms, ... - Aldeburgh could be added. - Deborah Sasson was kept, but achieved less in the music world. She knew how to attract the press, however. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:52, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Gerda Arendt This has nothing to do with the evaluating the worth of prize winners, but evaluating the quality of coverage of Kaoli Isshiki in sources. A half sentence of text is not significant coverage, and if the award were significant we would expect more coverage in independent media or academic publications. We can only build articles based on our notability guidelines which requires that we support articles with extant sources that contain significant coverage. That does mean that what journalists and academics choose to pay attention to directly impacts the types of articles we can create because we can't engage in WP:Original Research. That is both a limitation and a strength of writing on wikipedia. The fact that you have yet to locate any sources directly about Isshiki where she is the primary subject indicates that she isn't notable for wikipedia's purposes. This indicates that a journalist or an academic researcher needs to do some work before we can have an article and it is WP:TOOSOON for wikipedia to write on this person.4meter4 (talk) 22:34, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't believe that our coverage should depend on one reviewer's or academic's personal attention or lack of that, when her contributions to music are facts. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:45, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Then fundamentally you have missed the point of wikipedia's core policies at WP:No original research, WP:VERIFIABILITY, and WP:SIGCOV. We can't build articles largely verified to primary and non-independent sources. Best.4meter4 (talk) 18:20, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Informations about concerts and recordings are facts, not original research. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:56, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:PSTS which states, Wikipedia articles should be based on reliable, published secondary sources, and to a lesser extent, on tertiary sources and primary sources. Secondary or tertiary sources are needed to establish the topic's notability and avoid novel interpretations of primary sources. The issue here is that there is not enough secondary coverage of her performances and recordings to establish the notability of those performances and recordings, and to make sure the "facts" are presented in an encyclopedic and neutral manner. Building an article from primarily primary materials and sources closely connected to the subject does not match the policy language at PSTS. At this point we have found zero secondary or tertiary sources with significant coverage. That makes the topic both not notable, and any article built from the current sources in evidence a violation of PSTS policy on the no original research page. Best.4meter4 (talk) 21:15, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Please educate me on my talk, not here. - Edit conflict, response only to the beginning of the comment above.) I didn't write this article, and probably would not have created it. But now it's there. I don't think we need "research" to agree that The Proms are notable, and that singing all of Monteverdi's Vespers (not just solos) is an admirable feat. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:29, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Quoting policy language here isn't about educating you Gerda (although if it does that is a bonus). It's relevant policy language to the discussion. Providing textual evidence for an WP:AFD argument is what we are supposed to do at an AFD for the benefit of all participants. I have provided a detailed source analysis below, showing how none of the references constitute independent significant coverage as required by WP:Notability.`4meter4 (talk) 01:11, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:29, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Liz, could you please notify relevant projects, such as Opera and Women (in Music, in Red), - Song is not relevant. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:48, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source	Significant?	Independent?	Reliable?	Secondary?	Pass/Fail	Notes
Le Monde	N	Y	Y	Y	N	Non-notable award that receives only a half sentence of coverage in the article. The article is mainly about another person who won a different award which is notable. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
Anaclase.com review	N	Y	Y	Y	N	Article is primarily a review of Laurent Cuniot and the TM+ ensemble at the Maison de la musique. Isshiki is only mentioned in passing, and the paragraph she is in is primarily not about her performance but about the song cycle by Jonathan Harvey. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
recital at prod-s.com	N	N	Y	N	N	The PROD-S company is the production company which produced the recital concert by Ishki. As they are a production team directly connected to the recital, and promote their events on their website this lacks both independence and significance. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
recording	N	N	Y	N	N	Vendor selling Isshiki's CD. Does nothing but verify a recording exists. It does not provide any information on the recording, and the website also lacks independence as it is selling a product featuring the subject. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
KAOLI ISSHIKI at ruhrtriennale.de	Y	N	Y	N	N	Artist bio at the website of Festival der Kunste which employed the singer. These bios are usually written by the subject or their paid talent management agency. Lacks independence. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
Ensemble William Byrd	N	N	Y	N	N	Isshiki is listed as one of four sopranos in a chamber choir on the website of the choir itself. This is either neither independent or significant coverage. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
KAOLI ISSHIKI at ludusmodalis.com	Y	N	Y	N	N	Artist bio at the website of the Ludus Modalis website which employs the singer. These bios are usually written by the subject or their paid talent management agency. Lacks independence. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
Review at musica-dei-donum.org	Y	Y	N	Y	N	Review from a WP:SELFPUBLISHED non-notable blog. Not a reliable source. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
Philharmonie de Paris	N	N	Y	N	N	Performance archive of the Philharmonie de Paris. Verifies she performed with the orchestra in a primary source, but this is neither significant or independent. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
BBC Proms	N	N	Y	N	N	Performance archive of the BBC proms. Verifies she performed with the BBC proms in a primary source, but this is neither significant or independent. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
Voce.de	N	?	N	N	N	Voce.de is a WP:SELFPUBLISHED personal website of Hans-Josef Kasper. Not reliable. May or may not be independent. No way to tell with a self-published source. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
Brusseks Philharmonic	N	N	Y	N	N	Website of the Brussels Philharmonic. It's the orchestra's performance archive and is both a primary source and lacks independence from the subject as the orchestra employed her. Can be used to verify the performance but is not usable towards proving notability. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
Res Musica review	N	Y	Y	Y	N	This is an independent secondary source, but Isshiki's performance is only given a half sentence of attention. It is not in-depth enough to be considered significant. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
conservatoire-orchestre.caen.fr/	N	N	Y	N	N	This is an advertisement with ticket sale pricing and links for purchasing. It is not a review, not independent, and not significant coverage. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
musicweb-international.com	N	Y	Y	Y	N	This is an independent review of album on which Isshiki performs on a couple songs as a guest artist. However, her performance was not reviewed at all by the reviewer who did not mention her at all in the review. She is only listed as a performer on the couple songs to which she contributed. Without any text reviewing her work, this is not in-depth coverage. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
French Anthologies	N	Y	Y	Y	N	This is an independent review in a reliable secondary source. However, the review of Isshiki's performance is only a half sentence long. It's not in-depth enough to constitute significant coverage. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
www.recordsinternational.com	N	N	Y	N	N	This is the website of a record label selling one its albums. Not independent nor significant. Fails WP:SIGCOV.
Total qualifying sources					0	There must be multiple qualifying sources to meet the notability requirements

I am travelling, and busy with other subjects, sorry for a late reply. Thank you for diligent analysis of sources, 4meter4. My issue is that it sees every item only on its own, not in context.

Of course there are, in general, biographies around that were written by the person in question or by a publicity specialist, but in this case I see the things mentioned there (studies in Europe, award, performances, recordings) also supported by trustworthy other references. I also don't see any items in the biography (which is repeated by other sites) that I'd consider far-fetched or sensational claims.

I see a singer performing in high quality and in teams, be it ensemble or with other soloists. I like that approach. I see her performing the lesser-performed music, both old and new, and would like to showcase that instead of deleting it. As John pointed out (below), there are different ways to establish notability according to Wikipedia:Notability (music). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:49, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I found this Amazon listing which has her credited on all but one track. The main artist seems to be Pascal Dusapin. Then I found that her artist page at Amazon has four albums listed, one of which is under her own name. Here is another listing, from the Ensemble Vocal de Pontoise.Wikipedia:Notability (music) says our benchmarks for a standalone article on a musician include "Has released two or more albums on a major record label or on one of the more important indie labels (i.e., an independent label with a history of more than a few years, and with a roster of performers, many of whom are independently notable)." Maguelone (her record label) claims to have released work by Reynaldo Hahn and André Jolivet, who are independently notable, and to have been around since 1993. Overall, (and the coverage of her prize in a major French media source counts too) I think that this artist (just) meets WP:NMG, so I think this is a (fairly weak) keep from me. John (talk) 20:59, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I'm giving this discussion another relisting. But right now, I see no support for deletion other than the nominator.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:53, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: The article lacks mention of significant coverage or critical acclaim. There is also no information provided regarding the subject's record sales, chart placements, or awards, despite claims to the contrary. Fails WP:SIGCOV.--— MimsMENTOR ^talk 07:44, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Record sales, chart placements: not relevant for classical music. Recordings are, and recordings are there. Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:03, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The SNG is tied to the notability of the record label. Albums made with an obscure small record label probably aren't notable. It's not like she recorded for a significant classical music label like Decca, Naxos, or Deutsche Gramophone which have international distribution. We don't even have an article on the label she recorded with which is telling. It looks to me like she is only active with a tiny French independent record label that doesn't appear all that notable. 4meter4 (talk) 17:49, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relisting. Comments on the sources provided would be helpful.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, voorts (talk/contributions) 02:14, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete; fails WP:GNG, WP:NBIO, WP:NMUSIC. I find 4meter4's source analysis convincing. Dclemens1971 (talk) 21:47, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Reverting my close, and relisting for a clearer consensus, per the nom's request.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 19:04, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Most of the sources in the Fr article are concert listings, FNAC is an online store... I don't consider any of them RS. I don't see notability. Oaktree b (talk) 22:44, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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