Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Bands and musicians

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Bands and musicians

William Joseph Williams (singer)

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Unsourced BLP. Was previously PRODed (then the PROD removed by a LTA account), but the reason given there no longer applies. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:10, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Fails WP:GNG and WP:NSINGER can't find any significant coverage of him let alone 16 awards. Theroadislong (talk) 13:29, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note please see SPI Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Japansonglove for details about the ongoing article/disambiguation page hijack for articles with similar names. Those new accounts should be reported to the SPI case and revert edits to the article. It's hard to tell when I'm on my mobile, I don't know what the original page was, sorry. Knitsey (talk) 13:35, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Fails WP:GNG and WP:NSINGER. --WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 15:19, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Unsourced BLP. Possible hoax content which lacks any verification to back up the claims in the article. Kind Tennis Fan (talk) 16:50, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and California. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 17:45, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Delete (WP:CSD#G5) This subject has been the topic of a long term sockepuppeting case (see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Japansonglove). I frankly don't understand the page history, as the oldest entry in its history shows a minor edit by Onel5969, a long-time editor in good standing. This must have been a minor edit to something, but there's nothing prior in the page history. In any case, the page should be speedily deleted. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 18:31, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - The page was hijacked in October. William Joseph Williams. Now that that is sorted out one can just look at the October edits. --WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 18:34, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Crunchy Black

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Originally redirected to Three 6 Mafia at AfD all the way back in 2011, there is indeed not enough coverage here for a standalone BLP. Independent coverage is limited to a report of an injury and a separate legal issue by two gossip sources that should not be used on BLPs, an ASCAP credit to verify his real name (reliable for that purpose, but does not establish notability), a low-quality biography that looks like the product of a content farm (source 6), a list of songs the subject has contributed to (source 7), a one-sentence AllMusic biography, and a link to an Apple Music listing. The only valuable source is 4, which is about Three 6 Mafia, precisely where this article should be redirected to. No evidence of independent notability to pass WP:NMUSICBIO, by all rights should have stayed a redirect especially given the BLP problems present on the page. JeffSpaceman (talk) 14:08, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Tarita Botsman

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Tagged for BLP sourcing issues since 2022. Article is largely cited to primary and non-independent sources. Not clear that the subject meets WP:GNG, WP:ANYBIO, or WP:SINGER. 4meter4 (talk) 02:53, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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April Evans

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Minor concert soprano who appears to mainly work as voice teacher. Her one big credit, the performance with the Opera Orchestra of New York, was as a last minute replacement for a sick singer. The review is not complimentary, stating she sang cleanly but without characterization. She appears to have had a very brief and unremarkable performance career in the 1980s. Fails WP:SIGCOV.4meter4 (talk) 02:35, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Ok to delete. Found several reviews via Newspapers.com which were lukewarm to negative, like this 2004 Star-Ledger review of her performance as Aïda with the Metro Lyric Opera. Does not meet WP:SINGER. Cielquiparle (talk) 18:06, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mary Movsisyan

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Fails WP:SIGCOV. Article is cited to unreliable sources like YouTube, or to sources connected directly with the subject. I could not locate any independent source with significant coverage. 4meter4 (talk) 02:04, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Ludmilla Azova

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Fails WP:GNG for lack of significant coverage in independent sources. Further the article contains false information. For example, the New York Philharmonic has a meticulous searchable archive (see https://archives.nyphil.org/index.php/search?search-type=singleFilter&search-text=Ludmilla+Azova&search-dates-from=&search-dates-to=) of every performance given by the orchestra during its entire history. Every soloist is easily searchable and will pop up in a search . She gets zero hits in the archive, and never sang with the orchestra. When I looked at the sources much of the content in the article could not be verified to the cited sources (I have a subscription to The New York Times). I placed tags on material not supported by sources. Very little is actually verifiable. I can find no evidence that she sang in operas other than The Consul in New York, and the part she sang was the tiny role of Anna Gomez who doesn't even get an aria. There are no sources in newspapers or books that I could find to verify the La boheme, Madama Butterfly, and Faust performances. I strongly suspect these are also performances that were made up and never happened. Other than her recital review, there isn't any significant coverage on this singer. Newspaper archives didn't have anything nor did google books. 4meter4 (talk) 01:37, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - I support the nominator's expert investigation into the sources, and have little to add to the convincing analysis. Via Google Books I did find a couple of minor announcements for stage appearances by Ms. Azova in the late 1960s but she was only named briefly in long lists of credits. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 13:04, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yoko Maria

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Article contains zero independent sources with significant coverage. The sources used are all self published or from primary materials closely connected to the subject. Fails WP:SIGCOV. 4meter4 (talk) 00:10, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - The article looks like an attempt to prop up a rather average career with exaggerations and flowery prose. She has some concert announcements and recordings, and apparently appeared at Carnegie Hall, but (at least in English) I can find no significant coverage or her career or biography. Also, four concerts in seven years do not constitute a "World Tour". ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 12:51, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lorna Stucki

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Completely non-notable singer who had one collab that got to 98 in the charts 34 years ago. Absolutely no mentions of her online or in print that I can find that aren't either a simple link to that one single or a reference to this article. Fails WP:BIO and WP:ENT. CoconutOctopus talk 22:17, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: I can only find minimal mentions [1], [2]. There isn't enough to build an article. Oaktree b (talk) 23:31, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women and England. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 01:22, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect I have verified the single that reached the UK charts, but I can find only minimal further coverage. As an WP:ATD - I propose a redirect to Last Night a D.J. Saved My Life#Covers. No merge necessary as I have already added the basic facts to the target article. ResonantDis_tortion 08:47, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I respectfully disagree with the redirect suggestion above, because Ms. Stucki was merely a guest singer on someone else's song that just barely made the charts. That's too much of a stretch. Otherwise she is mostly a local club singer with a few guest appearances in other people's recordings, and she simply does not have the reliable coverage needed for an encyclopedic article. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 13:08, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Danny Keough

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Clearly WP:NOTINHERITED. Nothing in article suggests nindependant notability. TheLongTone (talk) 13:08, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge with Lisa_Marie_Presley#Marriages_and_divorces -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 18:06, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Moribund Oblivion

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Tagged for years as possibly not notable. Turkish article also has no cites Chidgk1 (talk) 12:03, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Nothing suggests notability, just the usual self-published.TheLongTone (talk) 13:16, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I've added some cites, including an RS stating it's the only Turkish band in the black metal genre to garner international attention. Thus the subject may well meet WP:MUSICBIO. There appear to be several reviews online - particularly in German, in specialist ezines. I will look for more sources when I get time. ResonantDis_tortion 15:46, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Furthermore, this band also has a profile page in Rock Hard, which is an WP:RSMUSIC, featuring multiple album reviews and articles (even if paywalled). See this link. I've added citations to the article. Other album reviews include [3] and [4]. With these - and the book citation - there's enough coverage to presume notability. ResonantDis_tortion 18:42, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dušica Bijelić

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Article is cited almost entirely to non-independent sources; mainly to theaters employing the subject. Not clear the subject passes WP:SIGCOV. Additionally, the roles currently listed in the article are all insignificant comprimario parts. We need to see better more significant roles, and those roles covered in independent sources, to pass WP:NACTRESS and WP:GNG. 4meter4 (talk) 00:45, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Susan Gundunas

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Tagged for notability since 2011. Both sources lack independence from the subject. The singer doesn't appear to have performed with any major opera companies or theaters; performing largely at third and fourth tier minor organizations. Not likely to pass WP:GNG. 4meter4 (talk) 18:08, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Article does not have significant coverage to meet GNG.

Mon Bhai (talk) 18:57, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Catherine Naglestad

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Article is written like a resume. Both sources used lack independence. One is written by her paid talent management, and the other is an interview from the website of her employer. Not clear the subject meets GNG as the article has zero independent sources with significant coverage. 4meter4 (talk) 15:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - Fails WP:SINGER. — Maile (talk) 18:41, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

JZyNO

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Subject charted but WP:NMUSICIAN does not guarantee notability. It still comes down to sourcing. There is nothing I can find in-depth about the subject that would be consdiered reliable. There is also a lot of press and churnalism such as this and this which are regurgitations of the same thing published on the same day but different publications. The Billboard reference only verifies the charting which was done on a collaboration with another artist. CNMall41 (talk) 00:55, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Strong keep, so glad this made it here Thank you so much CNMall41. Before going into sourcing and notability, I have started using my alt account for reviving (mostly African) articles I feel like the subject is notable and deleted under WP:G5. After this, I'm moving on to reviving Pabi Cooper.

With that being said, yes, I do agree that only 2 source are the same which is what publications like MSN and allAfrica do, they "re-publish" what's already out there and credit the publisher. The subject did chart on the Billboard U.S. Afrobeats Songs,^[1] and again on the UK Afrobeats Singles Chart.^[2] Keep in mind that he is credited as the primary artist on the song per media notes.^[3] JZyNO has been subject of the news multiple times here,^[4] and here,^[5] just to mention a few. He was also nominated for multiple Liberia Music Awards.^[6]^[7] and Telecel Ghana Music Award at the 25th edition (2024).^[8] This nomination is based on the two identical sources, charting collaboration (not sure what's wrong with that tho), and sourcing lacking depth. The cited references above are enough to sum up clear WP:SIGCOV as they are in depth and the subject do pass WP:MUSICBIO and WP:GNG as they have been the subject of multiple secondary reliable sources. Starting to wonder if the nominator performed WP:BEFORE. dxneo (talk) 02:37, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I do realize that having a page you created sent to deletion can be frustrating, however please WP:AGF. Saying that you "wonder if the nominator performed a WP:BEFORE" is a veiled accusation that I lack the competency to properly review a page for notability. This is not away to get your contention across in a deletion discussion. I will respond to your notability points in a minute once I look through the sources you provided. --CNMall41 (talk) 05:03, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As stated in the nomination, charting does not grant inherent notability for a musician under WP:NMUSICIAN. The wording is "may be notable," not "is" notable. For the awards, they are nominations, not wins so not even relevant for WP:MUSICBIO. The first two sources you pointed out only verify charting. They are not significant, just verification. Three is from Apple Music so this cannot be used for notability. The fourth and seventh are the two I pointed out that are WP:CHURNALISM. Five is an interview and six and eight are just verifications of his award nominations. I see no significant coverage. --CNMall41 (talk) 05:12, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, my apologies for that earlier statement. However, respectfully, it really looks like you are not familiar with WP:MUSICBIO as it states that "8. Has won or been nominated for a major music award, such as a Grammy, Juno, Mercury, Choice or Grammis award." So I don't know what you mean when you say "nominations are not relevant." You then said "charting is not inherent," what's there to inherit when it's his song? (rhetorical question) Those sources are in-depths, this is not a GA standard article, it's somewhere between Start and Stub-class, hope you understand. Apple Music source is for verifying that the subject is the primary artist. Those reliable sources clearly discuss the subject where he's from and so on,which is what's most important. (SIGCOV) Trying to dismiss the sources by saying "they are just…" is not the way to go, because I was radequately eferencing every statement. Again, the subject clearly pass WP:GNG, as they have been the subject of multiple secondary reliable sources. dxneo (talk) 05:53, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Again, I realize it is frustrating, but please be WP:CIVIL. Are the awards he was nominated for one of those mentioned? If not, the WP:ONUS would be on you to show they are considered a "music major award." So yes, those nominations are irrelevant. I also never stated that "charting is not inherent" so do not misquote me as it could mislead the closing admin. I said that charting does not give inherent notability. You keep saying the coverage is significant but have not shown how. Saying it "clearly passes WP:GNG" is a fallacy by assertion at this point without being able to demonstrate how interviews, churnalism, and simply verifications are considered significant coverage. --CNMall41 (talk) 06:19, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Still don't know why you keep saying be CIVIL, as if I'm using foul language, this is a discussion and I'm participating. Not everyone can be nominated for the Grammys, and thousands are notable without a Grammy nomination. However, every country/region got their major awards. Example, in South Africa, we have multiple awards organizations which are considered major, something like South African Music Awards. Every region got their own alternatives. U.S. got Grammys, Canada got Junos, and so on. Hope you understand. dxneo (talk) 06:34, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So he has won an award, and went on to lead the nomination list with 7 nods, that's amazing. dxneo (talk) 08:00, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like nomination to me. "Artist of the Year" (Singluar) shows him second so more like a nomination. Regardless, it is still only verification, not significant coverage. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:14, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You have not addressed any of the concerns brought up in my last reply. Once you are able to do so I will be happy to opine. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:14, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay mate, let me try to break it down maybe we will understand each other. I will also quote the guidelines so that no one has to go back and fourth trying to verify.

In your own words you said "Are the awards he was nominated for one of those mentioned? If not, the WP:ONUS would be on you to show they are considered a "music major award."" WP:ONUS states that "not all verifiable information must be included. Consensus may determine that certain information does not improve an article, and other policies may indicate that the material is inappropriate." With that being said, I would say that nominations are accolades, and accolades do improve the quality of the article as #8 of WP:MUSICBIO states that "Has won or been nominated for a major music award, such as a Grammy, Juno, Mercury, Choice or Grammis award. Note that this requires the person or band to have been the direct recipient of a nomination in their own name, and is not passed by playing as a session musician on an album whose award citation was not specifically for that person's own contributions," where as the subject is the direct recipient here.
Again, in your own words you went on to say that "So yes, those nominations are irrelevant. I also never stated that "charting is not inherent" so do not misquote me as it could mislead the closing admin," but earlier you said that charting does not grant inherent notability. So I have two questions. First, why did you say the nominations are irrelevant when MUSICBIO says otherwise? Secondly, since charting is a requirement to pass notability per MUSICBIO, why do you want to strike it out?
Moving on to WP:GNG which includes WP:SIGCOV. "Significant coverage addresses the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material. this source covers the upbringing of the subject in detail, football, how he got into music and how he moved from one country to another. Yes, you may argue that it was an interview, but information is most reliable when it's coming from the primary source and artists are often interviewed including high profiles like Rihanna and I bet that you'd never second guess a Rihanna interview, so why question this one? And in this case, the interview comes from a secondary reliable source (BBC). This source tells you his full name, when and where he was born, including his ancestry. With those two sources you can sum up SIGCOV.
Subject of multiple secondary reliable sources. The subject is Liberian with Ghanaian and Nigerien ancestry. However, he was the subject of the news in South Africa, which states that he has won 4 out of 7 awards. He was covered by Billboard in the US, and again by Vanguard in Nigeria, not to mention his native publications.

All of the above mentioned sources are reliable (and highlited green) So, last question, which WP:GNG requirement was not met here? dxneo (talk) 20:57, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not refer to me as mate. As far as the WP:WALLOFTEXT, I will sum it up like this - You quoted policy which states "Significant coverage addresses the topic directly and in detail." I will concede the references address him directly. What you have not provide evidence of is how they cover him "in detail." The mentions are verification, the others churnalism, another an interview. At this point, the discussion is becoming ad nauseam. I will leave it for closers to determine.--CNMall41 (talk) 00:01, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK. dxneo (talk) 01:07, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

References

^ Zellner, Xander (2023-11-15). "10 First-Timers on Billboard's Charts This Week: Matt Rogers, Mark Mothersbaugh, Kelsey Hart & More". Billboard. Retrieved 2024-10-14.
^ "BUTTA MY BREAD". Official Charts Company. 2023-11-25. Retrieved 2024-10-14.
^ "Butta My Bread by JZyNO on Apple Music", Apple Music, 7 April 2023, retrieved 2024-10-15{{citation}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
^ "Singer-songwriter JZyNO debuts with 'Butta My Bread'". Vanguard. 3 July 2023. Retrieved 14 October 2024.
^ DJ Edu (16 February 2024). "JZyNO: Liberian singer on Butta My Bread success". BBC UK. Retrieved 15 October 2024.
^ "MTN Liberia Music Awards announces nominees". Vaultz News. 27 September 2021. Retrieved 15 October 2024.
^ "JZyNO, UMG Artist becomes first Liberian musician to gain global attention". The Sun. 4 July 2023. Retrieved 15 October 2024.
^ "TGMA 2024 winners list: Stonebwoy beat King promise and odas to win artiste of di year". BBC News Pidgin. BBC News. 2024-06-01. Retrieved 2024-10-14.

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Comment - Giant walls of text just discourage participation from others. Both of you need to calm down and let others participate so we can come to a consensus on what to do. Editor(s) who wish to keep the article - can you please give a concise explanation of your WP:THREE? Sergecross73 msg me 02:14, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep. The subject of this article meets criterion 1 and 2 of MUSICBIO. He is a Liberian artist who has received some coverage in Front Page Africa, which can be seen here, here and here. He has also recevied coverage in Pulse Nigeria, This Day newspaper, Vanguard, and in the BBC, despite the latter source being a primary source. Moreover, he has been discussed in the Lusaka Times and Nairobi News. He won and has been nominated for the MTN Liberia Music Awards, which is considered the biggest music award show in Liberia. He was nominated five times at the award's 2020 edition and won two awards in the 2023 edition. As previously stated, his song "Butta My Bread" charted on the Billboard Afrobeats song chart and the UK Afrobeats singles chart. Per this article, he is the first Liberian artist to gain global attention and is currently signed to Universal Music Group. Per the BBC article, his song "Butta My Bread" has received 160 million streams and is Liberia's biggest Afrobeats song. His song charting on two national music charts along with the sources I have mentioned here should be sufficient for a weak keep. Versace1608 ^{Wanna Talk?} 16:15, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Everything you described is what would be considered inherent notability in my opinion. Again, the notability guideline does not say he "is" notable for charting. It says he "may" be notable. The sources are all verification of claims, not significant or in-depth about the artist. We also need to be careful about using sources like this since they are not reliable. --CNMall41 (talk) 01:30, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How's it not reliable when it was never assessed at WP:RS/N? dxneo (talk) 01:50, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's not the way it works. A soruce does not have to go to RSN to be determined unreliable. Similar to how a reference does not have to go to RSN to be considered reliable. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:27, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Sufficient here to meet WP:MUSICBIO, including charting, and secondary coverage, and a featured subject of a substantial broadcast segment across a ~~national~~ international radio network (i.e. BBC World Service). Also I disagree about the WP:RS BBC article being classed primary; yes it includes quotes, but also includes secondary text and analysis and biographical information under a journalistic byline. ResonantDis_tortion 19:25, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Are there other sources (other than the claim of BBC) that you would consider reliable and covers the subject in detail (not just verification of claims of charting or award nominations)?--CNMall41 (talk) 01:30, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just let other editors assess the subject 'cause would BBC and Billboard "claim" someone charted when they didn't, and why would those awards be claims? [rhetorical question] dxneo (talk) 02:19, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That is why the question was posed to the editor making the vote. Unless you are able to speak for them, please stop muddying up the discussion with WALLSOFTEXT.--CNMall41 (talk) 18:23, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

David Michael Moses

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Notability unclear from sources in article. The news articles containing him are articles written about stories he was involved in as matters of Catholic interest, but do not show that he himself is notable. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 20:13, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Meets WP:RELPEOPLE. Also, there are enough WP:SIGCOV to establish notability. The article is net positively good, and I don't need to do a source search. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 20:46, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How does it meet WP:RELPEOPLE? He is not a head of a major religion; he has not played an important role in a significant religious event that has itself received considerable coverage; has not made contributions to the philosophy of religion; and has not been recognized as an authoritative source on religious matters or writings. Neither is he a bishop or head of a large Protestant congregation. He is an associate pastor.

Most of the coverage including him does not point out or demonstrate his notability as a person. I myself am a Catholic priest who has been mentioned or featured in a few Catholic news articles, but I am in no way notable enough for a Wiki article. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 20:59, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete I don't see a WP:GNG pass (and WP:RELPEOPLE doesn't apply here). The closest I can get is two articles from Catholic News Agency (here, here), but we need multiple that are independent of the subject and each other, plus these aren't necessarily WP:SIGCOV of him. The rest of the sources are affiliated or unreliable blog-type sources. Dclemens1971 (talk) 02:58, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment:: Do we all agree to redirect to List of American Catholic priests per WP:ATD? Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 04:15, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure why it would be an appropriate redirect; no one who might be searching for him would be served by a redirection to an incomplete list that couldn't even include him. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 13:54, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I also fail to see the value of redirection as suggested. There are tens of thousands of Catholic priests in the U.S. and only a small fraction of them are notable. Thus, per WP:CSC, the selection criterion for this list is Every entry meets the notability criteria for its own article in the English Wikipedia, and Moses would not qualify as not qualifying for a standalone article. Dclemens1971 (talk) 17:51, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete for lack of WP:SIGCOV and not passing WP:MUSICBIO. None of the current sources (Catholic News agency reports) are independent of the Church, and I don’t see any secular reviews. If there was a review in either America or similar reliable religious media, that would go far to showing notability. I also don’t see any touring as a musician outside of Eastern Texas/Louisiana. Normally, I’d advocate for keeping or merging such articles - my record on AfD is pretty much on the inclusionist side of religious articles. However, I find myself agreeing with Dclemens1971 as to the lack of utility in a redirect to a larger list. If you find and better sources, please ping me. Bearian (talk) 03:38, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete then. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 09:39, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Deborah Sasson

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Tagged for sourcing issues since 2019. Contains no independent sources with significant coverage. Not clear the subject meets WP:GNG. 4meter4 (talk) 16:25, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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I will look into it but have company for several days. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:37, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I looked now: Operissimo, Bayreuth: she sang at Metropolitan Opera (don't know yet what), at the Bayreuth Festival (one of the Parsifal flower maidens alongside her husband in the title role, also the six following years without him), and she wrote at least two musicals and made recordings: seems notable. I have no more time today. Her prime was 40 years ago which makes searching difficult. Anybody to find about a claimed Metropolitan Opera competition? It's not the famous one. - Please reduce the tag-bombing a bit, I don't have time even for that. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:44, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No traces at Met Archive, the competition Metropolitan Opera National Council Auditions of the Air doesn't exist anymore. Grimes2 (talk) 17:40, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agree that she may not have appeared with the Met, but finalist in the "Auditions" looks supported by three reliable sources which all rely on GLS. Perhaps she was dropped from later editions of GSL as mainly a pop and musical singer then.

Thanks to Ipigott for the Bayreuth ref, I added the Online Merker which even has a birthday. The article is rewritten. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:27, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: As she's covered in the Großes Sängerlexikon, she is considered notable.--Ipigott (talk) 13:56, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ipigott I already checked the Großes Sängerlexikon. She does not have an entry. She is mentioned briefly in the entry on her husband, the tenor Peter Hoffmann, on page 2115 (see https://www.google.com/books/edition/Großes_Sängerlexikon/dsfq_5dFeL0C?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=Sasson ) but otherwise has no coverage. It is not significant coverage as the text is one sentence long and is about their marriages (twice married, covers second marriage in 1983) and separation in 1990. It has nothing to say about her at all other than that. 4meter4 (talk) 15:33, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Bayreuther Festspiele source which I have included as a reference in the article clearly identifies the 1999 edition of Sängerlexikon as a source. Not all editions are accessible online, especially for performers from the 1980s. Operissimo also draws on the same source.--Ipigott (talk) 17:26, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ipigott It would be preferable to cite the GSL directly rather than use the festival website as a proxy. As her employer, the festival source is not independent, but the GSL would be. I'll assume in good faith that the festival website text is in that edition of the GSL, but normally articles built from theatre web pages that employ performers would not meet the standard of sourcing required at WP:SIGCOV because they lack sufficient independence. In my view, the article currently is cited too heavily to non-independent web materials (the majority of the article is verified to two non-independent websites) to meet GNG but as the Bayreuther Festspiele cited where it got its info I am willing to overlook it in this instance; particularly if we swap out the source for the print edition of the GSL. Best.4meter4 (talk) 15:37, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand. Please check historic biographies on the Bayreuther Festspiele and you will find that they quote the GSL word for word (Example: Hermin Esser), and additionally supply the exact information about the performances, which link to the colleagues, conductors and directors. It is actually the better reference. Additionally: we can see it. Is that clear enough? - --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:01, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Gerda Arendt It would be fine as an external link, but as the festival is Sasson's employer it shouldn't be used as a cited reference because the website is too closely connected to the subject and lacks independence. More importantly, that website is a copy-paste of a copyrighted work. It would be better to cite the original print edition of the GSL and attribute the scholars who wrote the information for ethical reasons. It's an attribution (see Wikipedia:Attribution policy) and copyright issue Gerda. We shouldn't be crediting the Bayreuth Festival but the academic researchers and their publication.4meter4 (talk) 16:07, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have no time to argue. Have you seen the Online Merker entry for her birthday, 2023, not an employer, also quoting the GLS, just an earlier version that we can't see? - The festival is not presenting some promotional stuff about their singers, but quote from the given source. That makes a difference for me. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:11, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, 4meter4, for your understanding. I agree that it would be preferable to refer to the 1999 print version of GSL but this would no doubt require the assistance of a librarian or archivist to provide page numbers, etc., and would require considerable time and effort. I have always considered the Bayreuther Festspiele site as a reliable source, in particular for identifying the roles played by the various performers. In my experience, it has been widely used in the biographies of opera singers in order to identify their roles and performances. Until now I have not seen it dismissed as a mere "employer". Would you consider information from opera houses such as Covent Garden or the Met as employers too? If so, many of our sopranos' biographies may well not deserve inclusion in the English version of Wikipedia.--Ipigott (talk) 16:18, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ipigott This is complex issue. Theaters do pay their artists, and they promote them to generate ticket sales. They are indeed non-independent sources of information, and they have a financial conflict of interest. In my opinion its irresponsible (and lazy) article writing to use these materials anywhere but in an external link. Additionally, theater websites often re-publish artist bios written by the subject or by their paid talent management, meaning artist bio pages on theatre websites are also non-independent sources that can not be used to establish notability. Performance archives such as (https://archives.metopera.org/MetOperaSearch/) are WP:PRIMARY sources, and can be used per WP:VERIFIABILITY but they don't meet the standard of sourcing required at WP:SIGCOV which requires the use of WP:SECONDARY and WP:TERTIARY sources. In general, much of the content found in performance bios and archives can be verified elsewhere in better materials by digging up media reviews of opera performances with attributed authors in newspapers or specialty publications like Opera, Opera Wire, or Opera News, and these are the kind of independent sources needed to meet WP:GNG. Obviously, even better is having a source like the GSL or Grove Music Online, or an academic journal article or a book of some kind with significant coverage. If a singer hasn't had any independent media coverage of their performance, and the content is only verifiable to a theater website, they are indeed not notable. Most opera productions get reviewed so if one is having trouble finding reviews in newspaper archives it is highly probable should be deleted.4meter4 (talk) 16:52, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ipigott I don't think it would be necessary to worry about digging up the original 1999 SGL edition. I think we are all confident enough that Bayreuth is accurately representing the source that I think we could simply cite the book's entry without giving a specific page number. Anybody with a physical copy of the 1999 edition of the book would easily be able to locate that entry by citing the chapter "Sasson, Deborah". We can then move the Bayreuth bio to the external links so it is still visible to readers.4meter4 (talk) 17:01, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I brought back Bayreuth for the two reasons mentioned above: a) it is online, b) it has the performance dates and people, a convenience for readers interested in that James Levine conducted that Parsifal, and who was Parsifal in subsequent performances. I doubt that they would find it in the external links. Thanks to Grimes2 for finding more references. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:19, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Withdrawing per WP:HEY. The sourcing issues have largely been addressed. I think we can close this out as meeting WP:GNG. Good work Gerda and Ipigott.4meter4 (talk) 17:53, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Young American Primitive

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Not seeing any evidence of passing WP:NMUSICIAN or WP:GNG Hemiauchenia (talk) 16:28, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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delete Per nom. Article is basically unsourced as the one ref provided is not an WP:RS, but even if everything in the aerticle was properly sourced this musician still does not appear to be notable. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 17:10, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Nothing in Gnews. Gsearch is Discogs, Bandcamp and pictures of this CD cover. There isn't very much coverage about this person, so not notable. Oaktree b (talk) 20:32, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The first album probably has reviews. It's not an insignificant or an unknown album. His label was (supposed to be) Geffen but they didn't get along well and his second album was never released. Name appears in Google Books and ProQuest.—Alalch E.
Delete. Fails WP:NMUSICIAN, and doesn't remotely meet WP:GNG, which requires in-depth coverage, not passing mentions. Most of the content is either entirely unsourced, or cited to second hand reporting regarding something that didn't happen, found in a random archive of unverifiable provenance. [5] The only other source cited, Bandcamp Daily, is a music distributor, and not an independent source. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:29, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Name appears in Google Books and ProQuest - Most Google Books hits are false hits. I found at least two that were the page subject though, being [6] (snapshot of a chart listing) and [7] (passing mention). Again there are false hits in Proquest. The Hitchcock hits and stuff from 1923 clearly not relevant. All I could find is this [8] passing mention. Two references have been added to the page at last. This one form AllMusic [9] is clearly not significant coverage. This one from Bandcamp [10] is a little fuller. Not enough to write an article from, but some might feel the coverage is significant. But then, Bandcamp takes and publishes user contributed reviews, and this appears to be one such.[11] It is also a music distributor, per AndyTheGrump, so not independent. It is not, therefore, a reliable source, nor a suitable guide for notability. In addition I carried out a similar search to Oaktree b and concur with their conclusions. Does not meet WP:NMUSICIAN under any of the criteria. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 07:56, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sany Pitbull

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Does not appear to meet WP:MUSICBIO, appears to be unable to ever pass that threshold. Zero references, request for references is several years old. Royal Autumn Crest (talk) 00:47, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:ARTIST. Svartner (talk) 15:10, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – The list of references at the bottom of the article (via Google Translate) includes some mentions of his presence at large DJ events, and sometimes for serving as the spinner between sets at festivals, but they are largely in the form of blogs and fansites. He has not received any significant coverage in reliable music media. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 13:17, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Feli Ferraro

AfDs for this article:

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Was previously soft-deleted after an AfD in May, and it appears all the same issues discussed there still apply. Both the nominator and sole voter in that AfD called for deletion, and I'd be surprised if anyone would've countered it had there been more participation. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 10:06, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Hello! I started this page a while back and have continued working on this page. I did not chime in when the page was previously put up for deletion as I wholeheartedly agreed with the reasoning for deletion: the only mention of the subject not from a publishing body she was signed to/managed by was in passing in one article (that has since been removed as it was from a pseudo-blog owned by the label who released the song it discussed), and while she has continued to craft hits of all sizes (she is a songwriter), there were no awards at the time to further prove notability. However, much has changed since the deletion, as Q3 2023-2024 has been a banner season for her career:

(1) A Billboard magazine article ([12]) discussing an elite writing camp her publishing company put together (of 11 members) that has since appeared on virtually every K-pop album that has broken through in the United States market (nicknamed "the Hit Factory"). Not only does she appear in the cover photo and additional photos, but the article mentions her past and present placements as well as a few mentions of personal life.

(2) A songwriting award (win) from BMI - arguably the largest songwriting/publishing governance organization, as the song she co-wrote was ranked in the top 20 of pop songs in the past year based on radio airplay, club play, live performances, and TV commercial placements.

(3) A songwriting award (nomination) for "Wild Ones" - a large country-pop single (2x Platinum) this year that is already being discussed in several Grammy award songwriting and performance categories (to be announced next month in November).

(4) She has since co-written/produced virtually an entire major label album (female rapper Coi Leray's COI), receiving her first Billboard Top 10 single as a writer, as well as several songs with David Guetta that became hits in the European / Australian markets. Trainsskyscrapers (talk 15:32, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Notified: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music#Nomination of Feli Ferraro for deletion. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 18:24, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ayisha Abdul Basith

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Fails WP:SINGER and WP:GNG. TheWikiholic (talk) 13:46, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep-Multiple sources having non-trivial mentions about article to maintain WP:GNG.Irshadpp (talk) 08:44, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom, Youtuber fails WP:GNG, coverage is trivial, PR pieces. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 11:18, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, I agree with this. Although there's one of citation that appeared as "Independent", that one her feature story on Gulf News, but the intent and tone of the writing is dubious to say the least. The rest of citations I can assure that they're indeed PR pieces which written surrounding her performance at Salim-Sulaiman's annual music event, "Bhoomi" 2022. So, even though I myself one of the contributor of this article, but my intention was to put some critical information regarding her affiliations and that time there was a "Citation Needed" in one of the section, even though I myself was surprised and confused by this article's existence. So, I'm in favor for deletion of this article. Also for @TheWikiholic can you check its article that on Bangla Wikipedia? Maybe you can asses that one too. Thank you. Salaam -dsab Drhyhanna (talk) 04:54, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If I add her AllMusic's link, can it save this article from being deleted. But, there's a potential backlash regarding her AllMusic profile, it was created as part of submission by Salim-Sulaiman's Merchant Records, by their associated music agencies: Global Music Junction and Warner Music India. So, her releases that listed there were her releases/associated releases that under Merchant Records, not by her current contracted label, Andante Music. It's the link: https://www.allmusic.com/artist/ayisha-abdul-basith-mn0004311198#credits if you want to check. Please reply so we can discuss it further. Thanks for consideration. Salaam -dsab Drhyhanna (talk) 05:54, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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El Taiger

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I can't find any significant coverage from independent and reliable sources.

the topic of the article seems not to comply with WP:SINGER, not WP:WEB, and just looking at the page shows that it also lacks WP:SIGCOV in WP:RS to comply with WP:GNG Pitille02 (talk) 05:26, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 October 12. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 05:38, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Cuba, and Florida. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:40, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. For precisely the reasons presented in the nomination. Regards, BoyTheKingCanDance (talk) 06:14, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. There is significant coverage. There is a BBC article [13]. There is also coverage before death, in 2022, for instance [14][15][16] He seems a prominent artist. BilboBeggins (talk) 07:18, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The BBC source is about his death, while the others are press releases about an album and tour. Not significant independent coverage. 💥Casualty ^{• Hop along. •} 16:56, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We don't need the sources and significabt coverage to be before death of a person. BBC article has significant coverage, it has biography. There are also Cuban sources feom before his death. BilboBeggins (talk) 08:29, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. as the article looks now, there is no encyclopedic significance at all. If kept, reliable sources need to me added to the article for notability. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 13:00, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
First I want to mention that the article's notability is about the notability of the topic and amount of significant coverage, not the contents of the article. Second, I added contents. BilboBeggins (talk) 08:30, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete No significant media coverage of his music career, only his death. Death does not automatically establish notability. 💥Casualty ^{• Hop along. •} 16:49, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Article in Billboard covers his music career: "One of the most popular Cubaton artists (a genre that fuses reggaeton with traditional Cuban rhythms), El Taiger is known for his Cuban-rooted urban sound heard in songs such as “La Historia,” “El Papelito” and “Habla Matador.”" [17] BilboBeggins (talk) 08:38, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. There are reliable sources and there were more more sources, some from reliable sites, which were taken out of the article. Also, the nominator did not tell me about the nomination. Jeanette Lalo Camacho Martin (si?) 19:50, 12 October, 2024 (UTC)
Delete: A quick online search suggests that subject's death is the only source of significant coverage and, therefore, not "highly significant" according to WP:1E. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 20:30, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is not the only source of coverage, there are sources about his works [18] BilboBeggins (talk) 08:39, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also Independent article is before his death, it has significant coverage, so it's not One Event case [19]. BilboBeggins (talk) 09:17, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
BilboBeggins WP:BLUDGEON. And for your persistent claims that any notable coverage of the subject existed before his death, it's still not in the article. 💥Casualty ^{• Hop along. •} 17:36, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is a problem that some votes do not use argumentation based on facts, I want to stress this fact.

I added into article a 2017 Billboard reference about his song featured on the soundtrack of Fate of the Furious, breaking film. On this page I mentioned 2022 references. The Independent article is also technically before his death. There is also an article from today, so the coverage does not stop.

Reliable sources call artist famous in Cuba.

There are articles in BBC, Independent, ET about him. BilboBeggins (talk) 20:42, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I cannot find any source that can be suitable for this article, just promotional content and profiles. 181.197.42.215 (talk) 17:45, 14 October 2024 (UTC) Striking sock !vote. Daniel (talk) 22:23, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep - it seems the subject accomplished enough as a musician to pass the notability guideline, but at the same time the fact that so many of the referances in the article are about his death seems to be problematic. This source seems to cover his life more in-depth, will look for other references. It does at the moment seem that most of the citations fail WP:NOTNEWS. Inter&anthro (talk) 01:21, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I've added some content and references from sources that precede his death. Hopefully the article now passes WP:GNG. Inter&anthro (talk) 02:07, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  Thanks for the input. However, content about his religion, family members or his legal issues doesn't explain why the subject is notable as a musician. His discography has no articles, nor is there evidence of any awards or chart/notable label activity. 💥Casualty ^{• Hop along. •} 03:17, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  He collaborated with Enrique Iglesias and was part of the soundtrack of Fate of hhe Furious.
  
  This content prives that there is significant coverage.
  
  "His discography has no articles" — I am not sure what that means. There are sources fir his works. If you mean that there are no separate articles on his albums, it's not required. BilboBeggins (talk) 22:37, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Madelyn Renée

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Does not meet WP:GNG--the sole cited source barely mentions Renée, in the context of her relationship with Luciano Pavarotti, but there is no mention of her at that article nor is it clear how WP:DUE that would be. Searching online, I was able to find other brief mentions of Renee as Pavarotti's girlfriend (e.g. [20]) and interviews with her (e.g. [21], [22]) but nothing that provides secondary coverage of her life, career, etc. As written, the article is essentially a promotional resume with zero basis in available sources, and apparently with outright COI editing based on an assessment of the page's history. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 15:46, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect: to the Pavarotti article. I couldn't find anything substantive myself. Ravenswing 16:23, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment She also performs as Madelyn Monti and there is some early news as Madelyn Renee Levy. The most substantial coverage I have found is a 2008 piece from the New York Times [[23]] DaffodilOcean (talk) 21:43, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Very weak keep based on the 2008 NY Times article and many other sources I can see online. However, there’s also lot of unflattering information about her out here and there on Google that might implicate BLP. If we were actually neutral in POV, she might want the whole thing removed. Be careful of what you ask for. Bearian (talk) 02:45, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep based on the NYT article and other sources, but will require a substantial rewrite to remove WP:PROMOTIONAL sounding material and ensure all material is sourced. 🌸⁠wasianpower⁠🌸 (talk • contribs) 19:02, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Arsen Safaryan

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No evidence of any notability. Two YouTube souces and a source that appears to be a self penned CV. Fails WP:GNG Velella ^{Velella Talk} 12:14, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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5th Projekt

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The more I look into this group, I find that they are local to the Toronto area, self-release their material and only play live in the surrounding area. Can't find any notable charts or awards. Karst (talk) 10:41, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Reel Tight

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Most definitely fails WP:GNG TeapotsOfDoom (talk) 16:34, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep and merge text from Back to the Real. Caro7200 (talk) 18:07, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What exactly makes it notable though? Looking at the sources for the other page, half of the sources appear to be dead, one is just a wikipedia self citation, and one simply just confirms that the album exists. TeapotsOfDoom (talk) 00:31, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 17:49, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reel Weak Keep, and use sources from the article for their lone album Back to the Real, which strangely is more developed than the band's article. Though I don't have access to the true chart pages at Billboard, their album made a small dent in the R&B charts and they had two mid-level hit singles. They got some minor coverage back in the day for being discovered by Warren G, as seen in a source used at the album article. This is reel close though, and I won't argue with anyone who votes differently. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 13:25, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

D Fuse

AfDs for this article:

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only reference is a searchpage. major contributing editor has dfuse in username (COI). little on google, sigcov/notability issues Canary757 (talk) 07:34, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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I tried to add this manually yesterday but something went wrong half way through so I used twinkle today. I wanted to clarify why it might say 2nd nomination. (beginner error-sorry) Canary757 (talk) 07:40, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: there's a bicycle [24] that isn't this... I find this, but I don't know if it's the same individual [25]... Is D colon Fuse the same person as D space Fuse? Regardless, we don't have enough sourcing. Oaktree b (talk) 12:02, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, having a single source which is a search result and so difficulty to find sources to support it, it is destined for deletion at this time after spending so many years here in breach of all prerequisites. Piscili (talk) 14:10, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Article is full of puffery and needs a major rewrite. However I have identified non-trivial coverage including an Allmusic staff bio (which is an WP:RSMUSIC, and is always a good sign) and ~~three~~ four album reviews in independent sources. These citations have been added to the article. I will look for further sourcing, but this is currently tending towards meeting WP:MUSICBIO#1. ResonantDis_tortion 19:17, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment/Weak Keep I think it may pass GNG if Allmusic staff bio and four reviews are really non-trivial and good. --NiftyyyNofteeeee (talk) 15:45, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I have now identified and added a total of 14 new citations to this article, much with sig-coverage from a wide variety of independent sources. This includes verified charting per WP:GOODCHARTS, therefore the subject also meets WP:MUSICBIO#2. I have also toned down much of the puffery. ResonantDis_tortion 17:30, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: As I can see the subject has an article with modest depth from Washington post written 22 years ago. Having it on a hand with the other sources, it should be enough to pass WP:GNG. The unsourced materials from the article should be removed.Instant History (talk) 04:01, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 13:03, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jeffrey Johnson (actor)

AfDs for this article:

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Couldn't find any SIGCOV, and while prolific, doesn't seem to be particularly notable. Unsourced BLP. GraziePrego (talk) 01:01, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete for lack of significant coverage and existing for 10 years as an unreferenced biographical article about a living person. I think Boleyn correctly nominated this article; the past AfD had minimal participation. I did a couple of Google searches and found scant support for notability: this interview, some self- or fan-created sources, Amazon, IMDB, etc. Bearian (talk) 10:05, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Already brought to AFD so not eligible for a Soft Deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:13, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sam Tinnesz

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Non-notable musician. A few billboard chart listings doesn't satisfy WP:GNG. ZimZalaBim ^talk 02:19, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: This is listed as a RS per our Christian Music workgroup [26], see [27]. This is also a RS, but it's an interview [28]. With the charting single, just barely enough for notability. Oaktree b (talk) 14:37, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
and some coverage here [29]. Oaktree b (talk) 14:38, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Karima Gouit

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Fails WP:GNG. There's hardly any reliable sources about this individual. I can only find her social media profiles, which fall under WP:SPS. Skitash (talk) 20:11, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep This is entirely false. First, I have provided numerous articles from major news outlets on the talk page of Karima Gouit [30]. Second, she is a popular public figure with almost 10 million combined followers across all her platforms. I have listed multiple sources on the talk page from outlets that are recognized as reliable for non-academic matters WP:GNG, such as Le360 and Actu-Maroc.

Here are a few examples for you, that are of her "amazigh" work, not anything more than that, exactly what Skitash has been avoiding leading to this:

https://www.lesiteinfo.com/maroc/543568-karima-gouit-lance-une-chanson-amazigh-video.html

https://article19.ma/accueil/archives/161244

https://www.actu-maroc.com/krima-guit-premiere-aventure-en-serie-amazighe-pour-le-ramadan-2024/

https://ar.le360.ma/culture/3ORO6L3A3JGSZPD4ZNDBSWXHWU/

https://www.hespress.com/%D9%83%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%85%D8%A9-%D8%BA%D9%8A%D8%AB-%D8%AA%D8%B7%D9%84%D9%82-%D8%A3%D8%BA%D9%86%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D8%A5%D9%8A%D9%87%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%88%D9%8A%D9%86-1406136.html

https://fr.le360.ma/culture/serie-jorouh-la-comedienne-karima-gouit-pour-la-premiere-fois-aux-cotes-de-rachid-el-ouali-255629/

https://femmesdumaroc.com/archives/karima-gouit-et-noor-a-la-deuxieme-edition-des-saturday-night-fitness

and just one of the "many" relating to the subject of her talent show: https://ar.le360.ma/culture/189199/ , https://www.alaan.cc/article/73767/ and much much more in and outside these subjects.

More sources can easily be found if you search in French, Amazigh, or Arabic. This meets the criteria. Just because you couldn’t find much, I raised the matter of reworking the page to reflect her current popularity, as she is no longer mainly known for being a talent show contestant, but for her many songs and acting roles. These can be easily cited from the sites I mentioned. However, you dismissed it entirely, focusing solely on the argument over "NOT" including the translation of her name in Tamazight, which led you to try and remove her page, again, all because of the language she primarily speaks and uses in her songs. Still, I won't talk about your behavior on matters relating to this ethnic group wiki page as it's not of the subject. TahaKahi (talk) 06:18, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Delete I don't think it's an slam-dunk delete as I think it's fairly close, but that's the side I fall on. TahaKahi, you have not helped the case for her article at all - things like social media follower numbers are not relevant and many of these sources are really fleeting mentions. And if you didn't want to talk about Skitash's "alleged" behavior, then you don't talk about it at all; making a point to announce that you're not going to talk about it is literally talking about it, and WP:ASPERSIONS are supposed to be avoided. I think you're a good faith editor, but I don't believe that you really grasp the objections that several people have brought up. Have you considered refocusing on Amazigh Wikipedia? It has fewer than 3,000 articles, so it sorely needs help more than English Wikipedia does. CoffeeCrumbs (talk) 09:05, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sadly, I’m not the most refined in writing in Tifinagh script, so I chose to focus on the English Wikipedia instead, as I major in English. My goal is to help refine a few subjects related to the Amazigh and revive the related WikiProject. As far as I see it, I will try to proceed more slowly with these topics, working carefully to ensure that everything is properly referenced from academic sources, especially when it comes to historical matters of the Amazigh.I’m currently working on a document to identify pages that are missing citations. I plan to rework these articles by adding proper citations, and once I feel it’s enough, I’ll begin drafting them. Unfortunately, I’ve been struggling with the Karima Gouit article, as, while she is popular, Maghrebi news outlets often write brief articles. Though such articles can be cited, they don’t always provide enough substantial information for a well-supported article.Beyond that, I’ve been trying to act in a more respectful manner and listen to the issues raised by Skitash. However, he has escalated a simple topic into a report on [31] and of course deletion of the page. This makes me feel that his behavior is not entirely in good faith. Nevertheless, I apologize if I come off as confrontational. It’s just confusing to me why this topic is being so overcomplicated for something so minor. TahaKahi (talk) 09:19, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. To put it concisely, this coverage is WP:ROUTINE at best. The fact this article has surprisingly little to say about the subject is telling. Allan Nonymous (talk) 13:08, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, I'd like to hear some new opinions about this article and, if we're lucky, a source analysis of references in the article and those brought to this discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:22, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, Moroccan Ladies looks ok, more than a passing mention. The French version of WP:RSP has a note on le 360 [32], and that looks usable. There might be relevant stuff at [33] but the ones I looked at is mostly her talking about her. It's quite possible there are GNG-sources in French and arabic, but someone has to dig them out. They may not show up in Google as "news". Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:44, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Non-notable singer. There isn't much media coverage about her, [34] is typical. She performs, but hasn't been a commercial success, so no charted singles, no awards won. Nothing in either .ma or .fr websites we can use. Oaktree b (talk) 20:23, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Releasing music isn't notable, we need to see charted singles or some critical notice, mostly we have confirmation of her singing only. That's not what we need for a wikipedia article. Oaktree b (talk) 20:25, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There seems to be coverage:[35], but if any hits here fits both RS and GNG is harder to say. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 04:51, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, and it seems she was recently arrested:[36] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 04:55, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Comment: There is some coverage in the Turkish media from around 2014, when she participated in the Turkish version of The Voice: [37], [38]. TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 05:58, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Her Music Videos have several Million Views, (The top hit I have found had 16M on youtube, so approx. every second Moroccan has watched her music videos). She has 6M Followers on Instagram. Google unfortunately doesn't post the number of hits, Bing claims over 200k hits. Now we just need someone with Arabic and Tamazight knowledge to add some of these articles as sources. Arved (talk) 08:35, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Number of views doesn't matter, WP:GNG-good sources do. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:52, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ali Dee Theodore

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Previously Expired PROD. concern was: "Insufficient coverage in reliable sources; accomplishments relate to his company, not him, so he is not notable under WP:NMUSIC"—that still stands. This is just a largely unsourced database entry, and the provided sources do not talk about him but are generic product listing/database entries. Unless new & better sources are introduced, this individual does not appear to have enough sig, in-depth coverage. X (talk) 13:57, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. Agree that the article as it stands could do with better sources - and quite a lot of work on formatting - but a quick google shows that he is notable enough and covered in news articles, Billboard magazine, etc. that qualifies him for inclusion. His music has been used a LOT in films, which makes him pretty notable. I don't have time to spend on improving it now but would like to come back to it if nobody else does. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 08:35, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

p.s. I would get rid of all of those long lists and just keep a selection of notable films. Else could draftify until it is up to standard. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 08:37, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Draftify: I can't see sigcov of him personally (eg: for Billboard [39][40][41]), the format is totally unsuitable, and it's not clear at all to me what is significant. For example, He-man and the Masters of the Universe credits him for "title music" on IMDB, but when you dig he's not the main composer and there's a lot of people credited for title music[42][43]; there's no info on Hawkeye's December the 24[44]; he's in as an executive music producer for a season of Alvinnn!!! And the Chipmunks but not as composer[45][46]; he's third credited name on Underdoggs' See Me Rock It[47]. The only criterion that he looks to maybe pass is WP:NMUSIC#10 but it's likely to require a lot of digging to establish the evidence for this and to cut his article down to noteworthy works. ^~Hydronium^~Hydroxide^~(Talk)~ 07:08, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shadow311 (talk) 15:33, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mr Raw

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Article fails WP:NMUSIC, there is some material online about him but none of it mentions things needed to support notability. Dr vulpes (Talk) 03:57, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: What? Reading Beans 08:44, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: The subject passed ~~WP:MUSIC~~ WP:CREATIVE. He has released three different albums, he is a notable representative of Igbo raps with enough collaboration with other notable musicians. He also has reliable coverages for verifiability some of which are 1, 2, 3.Ibjaja055 (talk) 09:47, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hey @Ibjaja055 so the sources you provided don't support notability as per WP:NMUSIC. But there might be sources in Igbo, do you know where I might be able to find them? I'm not an expert on Igbo or Nigeria so if you could point me in the right direction I'll try to find some sources and add them in. If you think there are offline sources then we can just send this to draft until they can be added.

Source	Independent?	Reliable?	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
Source assessment table: prepared by User:Dr_vulpes
Premium Times	~ Looks to be independent but it's hard to tell.	Appears to be reliable after reading a few other articles	Article is 177 words and mentions that he has views on music piracy. Claims he's won awards but doesn't mention them	? Unknown
Daily Post	I'm not 100% sure but from reading some random articles it appears to be	Articles have writers and appear to be reporting properly.	Article is 125 words long and is about Mr Raw getting a shout out on Instagram	✘ No
Daily Trust	Appears to be, not 100% sure but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt	Has other articles that appear to be	Entry in the article is under his old man and is only 119 words	✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

Dr vulpes (Talk) 15:57, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Dr_vulpes Thank you for your prompt reply and I am also sorry for my late reply too. The sources I provided establish that the subject is a prominent figure in Igbo rap, and successors have acknowledged this by referencing him. The citations in the article may not fully meet the criteria of WP:GNG but they should be sufficient to pass the WP:SNG for WP:CREATIVE
The person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by peers or successors; The person is known for originating a significant new concept, theory, or technique.
Therefore, Mr Raw is an important figure of Igbo rap creative community and he is even the one credited with creating the new concept (Igbo rap). Ibjaja055 (talk) 10:51, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete : No other coverage to proof notable than being hospitalized due to a car accident. The rest news are interviews.--7G🍁 (🪓) 11:11, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:11, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: @Ibjaja055, that seems like a good reason to keep the article but do you have any sources saying that (i.e. that he originated Igbo rap or is an important figure)? That is what I usually see asked for in these discussions, and I think it would be helpful. I see he says it in a source from the Igbo rap article but I can't find anyone other than him saying it explicitly. Mrfoogles (talk) 06:56, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Mrfoogles Thank you very much. This is the source of another important figure in Igbo Rap confirming that Mr Raw pioneered it Ibjaja055 (talk) 07:34, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That is a quote from someone else rather than the newspaper saying it directly, though (although its adjacent). This article also credits him as a pioneer, although it does seem rather promotional of its (not him) subject, but that could likely be just an enthusiastic journalist. This other article seems to have a good account of the origins of Igbo rap but is a 404 and not in the internet archive. Mrfoogles (talk) 15:18, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And actually here’s another article, oddly enough also talking about another person doing Igbo rap. Mrfoogles (talk) 15:21, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, based on the widespread consideration as the pioneer of a music genre. Mrfoogles (talk) 15:21, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bob Connolly (Canadian film director)

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Semi-advertorialized article about a filmmaker, not properly referencing any strong claim to passing inclusion criteria for filmmakers. The attempted notability claim here is that his work exists, which is not an automatic notability freebie in and of itself -- we would need to see some evidence of distinction, such as notable awards and/or WP:GNG-worthy coverage and analysis about him and his work in media and/or books. But this is referenced entirely to primary sources self-published by people or organizations directly affiliated with the statements they're referencing, which is not support for notability, and the article claims absolutely nothing about him that would be "inherently" notable without better sourcing for it than this.
Further, there are no inbound links here from any other page in Wikipedia but the disambiguation page at Bob Connolly, and this appears to be a conflict of interest as the creator (who created it in 2013 and has occasionally returned to edit the article as recently as August 2024) appears to have self-identified as Bob Connolly in past posts to Talk:Lee Aaron, but even people who do properly pass our notability and sourcing standards still aren't entitled to write or curate their own articles themselves. Bearcat (talk) 19:35, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Does not meet WP:CREATIVE. LibStar (talk) 23:11, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Ribbon (band)

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An unsourced article about a Japanese pop group. Not to disparage Ribbon, but pop groups are a dime a dozen in Japan. No indication that WP:NBAND is satisfied. Yes, their single Little Date was used as the theme song for a single season of Ranma 1/2, but that would not do it on its own. No indications they charted any singles or otherwise satisfy NBAND. Safiel (talk) 20:08, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. Yes, they charted: 10 top-20 singles (including 4 in the top 10) and 4 top-10 albums (including 1 in the top 10) on the national Oricon charts, plus many other charting singles and albums. Several criteria in NBAND are met. Dekimasuよ! 03:03, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 21:23, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Leaning to Keep. Oricon is in WP:GOODCHARTS, and the subject has a number of hits therefore robustly meeting WP:MUSICBIO#2. Sigcov cites in the article are however lacking, but given the number of charting records happy to presume such will exit. ResonantDis_tortion 10:19, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as passing NBAND as noted by Dekimasu. DCsansei (talk) 23:27, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Magnet Man

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promotional..notability in doubt SINGS09 (talk) 03:11, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Disagree with this nomination, particularly no evidence of a WP:BEFORE. The article does need some cleanup but that's no reason for deletion. There is enough coverage, including of awards and platinum sales, from independent sources to meet WP:MUSICBIO. ResonantDis_tortion 09:43, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:52, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The Bastard Fairies

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This band doesn't appear to be notable. There's an AllMusic biography and an AllMusic review of their only album. Most of the sources used in the article don't even mention the band, and PlugInMusic doesn't seem to be a reliable source. toweli (talk) 12:45, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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I'd vote "keep" for the band name alone, but alas it's definitely a Delete. Fails WP:NMUSIC with no notable discography, awards or label work. And for being about a rock band, there's nothing about their music in the article, instead focusing on a documentary film and some meaningless YouTube video, not to mention being full of useless fluff and terrible sourcing. 💥Casualty ^{• Hop along. •} 04:25, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Along with the Allmusic citations above, there is sigcov available on TWL. This includes a full page article in the Native Peoples Magazine,^[1] a 1300 word article in Morning Call,^[2] and a CD review of Momento Mori from the Calgary Herald.^[3]. That's more than WP:THREE thus meets WP:GNG. ResonantDis_tortion 17:15, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Poet, J (2008). "Keeping it Real: The Bastard Fairies". Native Peoples Magazine. 21: 64.
^ Chow, Greg (2007). "Bastards of new media ** By breaking away from major labels and dominating online, the DIY Fairies become the music industry's worst nightmare". Morning Call.
^ McCoy, Heath (9 May 2007). "The Bastard Fairies - Momento Mori". Calgary Herald.

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Mark Kelley (bassist)

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This person fails WP:BANDMEMBER, article should be redirected to The Roots. For a longer rationale, see the reply I gave to the article creator after my initial redirection. Mach61 23:55, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep A similar AfD happened recently for another member of The Roots and The Tonight Show Band, see: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kamal Gray. There, another editor, User:Tau Corvi made a keep argument, which also applies here. "Per WP:MUSIC a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles is notable. Gray is a member of The Roots and The Tonight Show Band, both have WP articles." Hexatekin (talk) 14:54, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, my argument was for a redirect, but in the end, the article was kept. Tau Corvi (talk) 17:06, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ah sorry for that yes I see now your argument was for a redirect for the Kamal Gray article, but in the end it was kept. Hexatekin (talk) 19:41, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Hexatekin "The Roots" and "The Tonight Show Band" are currently one-and-the-same, this argument is clearly against the spirit of WP:BAND#C6. Mach61 18:07, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alright well I added another source and I will attempt to add more sources in the next few days, as I do believe he has been written about a bunch over the past 15ish years since joining The Roots. Hexatekin (talk) 19:42, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Hexatekin

The sources you added consist of:

A non-independent interview with Premier Guitar
An OkayPlayer that, like the Inquierer article previously mentioned has little to say of Kelley himself
Another No Treble album announcement that has little to say about Kelley

Mach61 14:34, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete since this fails WP:NPERSON and is not saved by either WP:NCREATIVE or by WP:MUSIC's pertinent paragraph. The sources tracked or already presented are worthless. Wikipedia is not a musicians directory nor a collection of random information. -The Gnome (talk) 20:06, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, asilvering (talk) 02:11, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: because there is coverage about him, but not opposed to Redirect if other users think it’s about him as band member mostly. What I am opposed to is Delete, totally. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 22:46, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A Redirect to The Roots would indeed be an encyclopaedically acceptable alternate route. -The Gnome (talk) 13:59, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:48, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bands and musicians Templates for deletion

Proposed deletions

Comment on the talk pages of the articles, not here.

References

[1] Zellner, Xander (2023-11-15). "10 First-Timers on Billboard's Charts This Week: Matt Rogers, Mark Mothersbaugh, Kelsey Hart & More". Billboard. Retrieved 2024-10-14.

[2] "BUTTA MY BREAD". Official Charts Company. 2023-11-25. Retrieved 2024-10-14.

[Apple-3] "Butta My Bread by JZyNO on Apple Music", Apple Music, 7 April 2023, retrieved 2024-10-15{{citation}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)

[4] "Singer-songwriter JZyNO debuts with 'Butta My Bread'". Vanguard. 3 July 2023. Retrieved 14 October 2024.

[5] DJ Edu (16 February 2024). "JZyNO: Liberian singer on Butta My Bread success". BBC UK. Retrieved 15 October 2024.

[6] "MTN Liberia Music Awards announces nominees". Vaultz News. 27 September 2021. Retrieved 15 October 2024.

[7] "JZyNO, UMG Artist becomes first Liberian musician to gain global attention". The Sun. 4 July 2023. Retrieved 15 October 2024.

[8] "TGMA 2024 winners list: Stonebwoy beat King promise and odas to win artiste of di year". BBC News Pidgin. BBC News. 2024-06-01. Retrieved 2024-10-14.

[9] Poet, J (2008). "Keeping it Real: The Bastard Fairies". Native Peoples Magazine. 21: 64.

[10] Chow, Greg (2007). "Bastards of new media ** By breaking away from major labels and dominating online, the DIY Fairies become the music industry's worst nightmare". Morning Call.

[11] McCoy, Heath (9 May 2007). "The Bastard Fairies - Momento Mori". Calgary Herald.

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Bands and musicians

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