User talk:Palmeira/Archive 1

Archive 1

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The Bugle: Issue LXXXV, April 2013

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The Bugle: Issue LXXXVI, May 2013

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May 2013

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South West Pacific theatre of World War II

See talk:South West Pacific theatre of World War II. So that you can see that I know something about the subject see also Talk:American-British-Dutch-Australian Command -- PBS (talk) 15:12, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Joint commands

The allied joint commands were not always as simple as the first appear on paper as inter-service and national politics often got in the way. One quote I particularly like is from Bill Slim about Vinegar Joe (you will find its context in the articel Northern Combat Area Command):

"Stilwell, however bitterly resisted it... To watch Stilwell, when hard pressed, shift his opposition from one of the several strong-points he held by virtue of his numerous Allied, American and Chinese offices, to another was a lesson in mobile offensive-defence."

-- PBS (talk) 14:04, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Oh yeah. Still somewhat that way, even all through NATO's peak. It is interesting to watch the War Department/Navy Department alone, even as late in the war there was a growing sense of a single entity that became DoD (and there are fun and games still in there!). As for a true mess the whole thing about SEA Command and the "American centric" CBI with Stilwell and the China thing is perhaps the worst case unity of command violations. It is right here, lingering on if I'm not mistaken. Though not my main interest at the moment I've had reason to look at the "command" structure of pages here. I'd have to check to see how deep, but it looks as if there is an entire category tree of Allied commands and U.S. commands essentially going their own ways and that is really, really bad for an "encyclopedia"—perpetuating rivalry rather than noting and discussing it and its effects. Any thoughts on tackling that problem yourself as I suggested? Would make a good project for the military history people, if they aren't actually the cause. Palmeira (talk) 16:21, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

The Americans used the term Theater of Operations, but then divided their tasks in two. Administrative and operational. The CBI was an unusual theater because (in theory) it did not have an operational command structure as that chain of command went through SEAC. But the administrative structures were in place to make sure that the American troops were paid, fed, clothed and had access to all the goodies that American troops were provided with that other nations could only envy (eg nylon stockings). So I think that usually there needs to be several articles. A theatre article which describes operational command and the fighting. A command article, for the operational commands (for the details of such a command which are "undue weight" in a theatre article). And for most Allied WWII theatres a "Theater of Operations" article specifically about American Command and administration, (eg Mediterranean Theater of Operations), which if nothing else allows for an explanation of acronyms that may appear in third party reliable sources and allows for an explanation of the difference between administrative and operational commands in the US armed forces.

I am not willing to get very involved in this part of Wikiepedia at the moment. I was involved years ago when there were only stubs or no article at all (XIV Army of the Burma campaign was well described as the Forgotten Army and that was as true on Wikipedia as elsewhere. One article I am particularly pleased to see develop from my stub is The Hump which is now as useful an HTML article as exists on the net about that subject. However at the moment I have given myself lots to do with cleaning up 1,000 of articles that contain public domain text and templates (eg {{EB1911}}), and when I get board of that (it is not very creative), of working on 17th century British articles (My sandboxes are stuffed with half written articles). -- PBS (talk) 10:11, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Pretty much the same here. Only put some spare time "byproduct" of my own looking into ships and other bits of WW II history here for the most part. Palmeira (talk) 11:44, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXXVII, June 2013

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July 2013

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The Bugle: Issue LXXXVIII, July 2013

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The Bugle: Issue LXXXIX, August 2013

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Empire Star

Re your additions to the List of Empire Ships, the first ship was not an Empire Ship and should be removed from the list. So that your research isn't wasted, Empire Star could be created as a shipindex page and the details transferred there. Feel free to create articles on any or all of the ships! Mjroots (talk) 19:16, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Added a note to that effect. If you want to delete it go ahead, though I think that the list in one spot is more informative and less confusing to readers than spreading the thing around. Not that interested in any but the 1935 vessel and that only with respect to the 1940-42 days in Indo-Pacific and the Singapore/Java evacuation in particular. Palmeira (talk) 19:53, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

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October 2013

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The Bugle: Issue XCI, October 2013

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The Bugle: Issue XCIII, December 2013

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The Bugle: Issue XCIV, January 2014

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DYK for Tugboat Trabajador (1931)

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The Bugle: Issue XCV, February 2014

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April 2014

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The Bugle: Issue XCVIII, May 2014

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The Bugle: Issue C, July 2014

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The Bugle: Issue CI, August 2014

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The Bugle: Issue CII, September 2014

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September 2014

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WikiProject Military history coordinator election

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The Bugle: Issue CIII, October 2014

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The Bugle: Issue CIII, October 2014, Redux

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WW-II battle articles and Category:Philippine Commonwealth Army

Please see Talk:Philippine Commonwealth Army#Category:Philippine Commonwealth Army. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 04:38, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

No talk page section about the reversion this user made on the article Philippines Campaign (1941–42) was found.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 00:31, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

It is there now. This isn't quite real time communication, but I am trying.Palmeira (talk) 00:45, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

November 2014

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• The '''Commonwealth Army of the Philippines''' (CAP) (official name '''''Hukbong Katihan ng Komonwelt ng Pilipinas''''' or '''''Hukbong Katihan ng

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an award for you

		The Philippine Barnstar of National Merit
		For your work on articles regarding the Philippines during World War II, specifically on the article about the USS Mactan, I hereby present to you this award. May it symbolize your commitment to make quality edits to articles regarding the Philippines.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 17:48, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
		this WikiAward was given to Palmeira by RightCowLeftCoast (talk) on 17:48, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard#Asian American

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SS Arrow

Hi! Thanks for the improvements to the article! I'm working on the Salvage and Cleanup efforts [here] if you'd like to take a look or add info! Thank You again! Regards,  Aloha27 talk  18:26, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

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MacArthur's pressure and posturing

Hi @User:Palmeira

Thanks for the further info. I enjoyed the reading Jones (you supplied the link to). I acknowledge the problems you refer to. I had a cursory look at the Kokoda page a while back and noticed that it just seemed to loose puff. Perhaps I might have a look at it too but not for a bit. It is a much easier proposition since it can be dealt with as a series (in time and space) of battles. Have you read the note on the last quote by MacArthur in Draft:Battle of Buna–Gona#Air support. I refer to the prudence of MacArthur's statement. It was interesting that Jones refers to MacArthur giving away secrets. The reference is also useful in regard to MacArthur's manipulation of the press.

I regret that there may have been an earlier misunderstanding. I have never rejected any suggestions 'out of hand' and certainly not to censor the 'facts'. I have tried to give reasons and on many occasions, I have asked for further comment to establish a consensus. Unfortunately, there has been little response to these requests. For example, this very section was about getting feedback on whether this was an appropriate title for this section. I have received no feedback on this at all. You criticise the Draft as being Australian-centric. I have been conscious of maintaining a balance in the article so I am a little disappointed that I have perhaps, not achieved this. I would be very interested in knowing specific details that lead you to this conclusion. Having said that, I do not promise to address all or any of the matters you raise. It may be that such concerns are left for a consensus. I would note that a balanced coverage is not as simple as giving equal page space. I am quite certain that I would have included the material I have, regardless of whether it were about Australians or Americans. For example, the vignette of Carson's gun was a novel employment of artillery and was not included for nationalistic reasons but for relevance to the artillery section and the greater success of the 25-pounder employed this way. I did not recount the foray into flame warfare largely because of the lack of success and it did not have the same relevance to a thematic section. This is not to say that the actions were not brave. I did not go into great detail re Bottcher, because this was covered in detail on his page.

In the conduct of the battle, quite apart from repeated hasty attacks, I was amazed by the persistence with 25-pounders given the logistics of supplying them, that the 4.5 in howitzers weren't bought forward earlier and the apparent lack of use of air-fuel weapons, given the reported use of improvised air-fuel weapons on the Kokoda Track.

Thanks again, Cinderella157 (talk) 00:19, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

PS - You may wish to have a quick look at the lead to Operation Lilliput Regards Cinderella157 (talk) 03:17, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Indeed! Good catch. Palmeira (talk) 20:23, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

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Operation  ??

Hi, didn't quite get your meaning here: "Sea route opened: Operations. Problem here is first (great cover!) was named for the ship involved while second was not.Various formats or operation names, often all caps. Anyway, italics for name, particularly "Tramsik" (made up?), not exactly ships)". I appreciate the distinction between 'Karsik' and 'Tramsik', where one is also the name of a ship as well as the name of the operation. Regarding italics of operational names, there is no consistent usage on pages or clear guidance that I can see. Operation ??, Operation ?? or Operation ??. I have consistently used Operation ?? (or tried to), so at least the page is consistent - until the latest edit. I have no great preference for for any particular format (except personally, I do believe that italics should be applied in some way). This latest edit creates an inconsistency in formatting/style within the page. Regards Cinderella157 (talk) 01:23, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Answer on Draft Talk page. Palmeira (talk) 02:11, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

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SS Sierra Cordoba

The article needs a {{otherships}} for USS Callao. Search Plimsoll Ship Data for "Ruth Alexander" and you'll find plenty of material on dimension, engines, code letters, owners, operators, port of registry etc etc. Mjroots (talk) 19:39, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Lots of stuff, much of interest, particular "raider support days" out there. Just getting started on a cold, ugly day. Palmeira (talk) 21:51, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

New England Shipbuilding article

Dear User:Palmeira: Is there a way to say that without having "launched" awkwardly twice in the same sentence? Yours, Wikiuser100 (talk) 23:32, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

You out there? Yours, Wikiuser100 (talk) 23:53, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

The word "launched" appears in two consecutive sentences but "Ocean Wayfarer, Ocean Stranger, Ocean Traveller, Ocean Seaman, and Ocean Gallant, were launched" and "mass launching" is not using the same "word" twice. It does appear in the next sentence, but that is the way to describe things. While we may "launch" our canoe each week use here has a specific, ceremonial significance as seen in ship info boxes with "launch date" and is analogous to "birth" in shipbuilding (though I think perhaps delivery date might be a better landmark in both a business sense and when the ship even looks like a ship since most "launch" as only hulls). If your previous, and accurate description of the method, "floated," happens every time a ship undergoes maintenance in a dry dock. Your last change looks ok, though not precisely accurate in that I do not think they managed the towing within fifteen minutes. I'm pretty sure this was one of those wartime, morale building, stunts like building a Liberty in a day where the yard arranged and timed the ceremony for a newsworthy event and even demonstration to the enemy that they could no longer sink more than the Allies could build. Palmeira (talk) 13:06, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your comprehensive explanation, User:Palmeira. I am indeed familiar with the nuances of "launched", but as you point out what was indeed a morale-building stunt (referenced as such at the Taft shipbuilding related article and elsewhere when mentioned) presents a challenge (as you depict, but not worth mincing over) as to when each ship was bouyant and what in epidemiological terms constitutes "launching" when done en masse as a publicity stunt rather than the unambiguous sliding down greased ways of a single traditional-style launch. The "15" minute figure being about as accurate as early "tape-measure" home runs, for the same reasons. A fantastic achievment regardless, however it ends up immortalized here and elsewhere.

You do terrific work here at Wikipedia. I look forward to running into it again. Yours, Wikiuser100 (talk) 17:11, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Lots of fallout from main interests and good way to pass snow day! As for the stunt, those were still very dark days. Ships were still being lost at a fantastic rate and the Army planners were already desperate about how to get the numbers of troops to various fronts—a situation that got better over the next years but was still nearly desperate through VE Day. I think you took a look at the Liberty ship article. They did not want to, were close to panic when some early models cracked, but were faced with using those things as miserable troop ships or possibly postpone a 1944 invasion, something just unacceptable politically. 16 August 1942's stunt? Consider the day before at "GUADALCANAL—Marine rations are cut. First destroyer-transports arrive with supplies and aviation ground crews." "Look, we can launch 5 ships for our allies, one for ourselvs and two destroyers in one day from one company. Hear that Hitler?" is a pretty good stunt at such a time. Palmeira (talk) 17:38, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

There is not a day I am not boggled at what the U.S. achieved during WWII industrially. Every number is unthinkable...40,000 Sherman tanks, 10,000 of seemingly any aircraft you can name, 2,000 Liberty and Victory ships (combined)....

Likewise, stunting or not, welding up and launching a Liberty ship in just over four days, as the Kaiser works in Richmond did.

Given the rate U-boats were sinking tankers and freighters off the North Carolina coast in early 1942 alone the need for a massive shipbuilding program was obvious, both for cargo/transport and destroyers and escorts to guard the convoys. Capital ships? Sure, let's make a mess of them too, with even more aircraft carriers of every type. As I say, the mind boggles.

It's great so much is being assembled here at Wikipedia, some before it gets lost forever with the passing of the generation responsible for it, much because if it doesn't get uploaded from service unit chronicles or culled from digitized old books "history" will be to today's and coming generations only what comes up in a Google search. Again, thanks for doing an important part. Yours, Wikiuser100 (talk) 18:11, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

SS Sea Marlin

Excellent setting straight of SS Sea Marlin particulars. Please see Talk there. Yours, Wikiuser100 (talk) 17:20, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

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Left hanging at Sea Marlin Talk page

An example of a Type C3-S-A2 Troop Transport with uncharacteristically heavy mast configuration for a dedicated troop transport, SS Sea Tarpon

Greetings User:Palmeira. I wanted to take a moment to thank you for your post at the SS Sea Marlin Talk page here: [1] and acknowledge that I do intend to follow up where that thread was left off but have been pulled elsewise since and my hopes expressed there don't seem to be getting any closer.

I was able to make corrections/improvements at impacted pages but not go forward as desired, particularly with teasing out the riddle of a number of very heavily masted C3-S-A2 transports in the run of "Sea" prefixed hulls that included those converted to Attack Transports that were instead finished out as simple troop transports (which subset of the latter included the Sea Marlin, SS Sea Owl, and SS Sea Tarpon, among others).

When I can get back to it I'll give you a shout-out for guidance as needed. Yours, Wikiuser100 (talk) 21:18, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Yes, those were Ingalls and Western Pipe & Steel variants that were quite successful. If you look at those profiles at the link you will see they had a pretty standard cargo rig enabling them to operate even where ports were short on dockside rigs. Particularly as the shortage of troop transport hulls to get the required build up in the U.K. for a cross channel invasion in 1944 began to be a real worry (there were some agonized memos there) and even the "scary" Liberty types, with Congress asking if they were safe, being drafted nobody was going to "unrig" cargo ships otherwise suitable for packing men into available spaces. I have copies of drawings for billeting in Queen Elizabeth for 9,088 berths and 921 hammocks. They show berths and hammocks in some strange places! Palmeira (talk) 01:31, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks

BTW I am enjoying the discussion with you. Thanks. My interest in the ship started as a kid collecting postage stamps. At various times I've mentioned the Four Chaplains to military chaplains that I've meet. With some disappointment I am surprised that many of them do not know the story. Also, I'm sponsoring a student at the Chaplaincy Institute in Berkeley. I'm going to make sure she knows the story. – S. Rich (talk) 17:32, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

People today clueless about the story surprise me not at all. Some years ago a survey of college students found a fair number had Lee landing at Normandy and Eisenhower at Gettysburg (other than at his farm in retirement!).

(copying this at the talk page for others that might be interested) The USAT tagging of ships that were not is fairly common even among people writing about some aspect of the ships but not specialist in those technical matters of WW II WSA/Army/Navy operation. For example, in making sure I could not find an authoritative Army counter to the MARAD vessel status entries I found one of the "Green Books" using USAT Dorchester. That was one covering the Medical services, written by a medical person who made an innocent mistake outside their particular area of expertise. That seems to be the case with some of the other references you are citing. They may be "authoritative" about the Chaplain Corps or even the events of the sinking, but have none and really no need for expertise in how oceangoing hulls were switched about under the umbrella authority of WSA, which was a true "Czar" when it came to commercial type ocean going ships. Even some of the USS, commissioned, merchant types were under "loan" or bareboat charter from WSA.

David Grover, author of the 1987 Naval Institute Press book U.S. Army Ships and Watercraft of World War II in Introduction, page xiii notes:

Designations of Army ships have never been as clear cut as have those of the Navy. In general, a ship owned by or under bareboat charter to the Army has been designated by the letters USAT, for U.S. Army Transport, preceding the ship's name. Ships allocated to the Army or under voyage or time charter retained their civilian designations as steamships or motorships.

Chapter I, page 3 repeats the FM 55-105 basics with:

The formal designation, USAT, for U.S. Army Transport was officially reserved for those vessels owned by, or bareboat chartered to, the Army as opposed to those vessels that were allocated by the War Shipping Administration (WSA) or were under other forms of charter.

References such as Grover, those MARAD "forms of agreement" and Army publications support Army levels of control in decreasing degree as:

• Owned (USAT) with civilian employees of the Transportation Corps.
• Bareboat chartered (USAT) with Transportation Corps responsible for and having control of everything except actual legal title.
• Army chartered (not USAT), those TCA agreements in the MARAD cards.
• Army chartered (not USAT) under time/voyage contracts that might last only the duration of a trip from port to unloading at another.

Army's ship usage was complicated by Army's view of ships without naval "love" and as just a means of getting stuff across oceans (reflected in categorizing them as "floating equipment"!). Grover mentions Navy had a clear way of treating the ships it considered part of its fleet, even WSA allocated ones. Army ships, apart from "a few show-place USAT ships" did not stand out and "resembled other merchant vessels more than they did military vessels" and for Army allocated cargo ships with only one or two TC people "control of these vessels was not apparent, even to the knowledgeable observer"—and that is one reason even troops and passengers embarked sometimes were quite confused as to just what organization was in charge of the ship. At least the big troopers had extensive Army TC staffs, that "Transport Commander" who was not responsible for the ship, that dealt with those being transported. Sort of sad, but then no Army Major ever made General on the merits of outstanding duty aboard and Army ship. No line Admiral made that grade without! Thus Navy treasures its ship histories, particularly commissionings and command, and Army largely tossed its records when the ships became inactive. Palmeira (talk) 19:04, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

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Kronprinzessin Cecilie

Re this, I've fixed the typo. You now need to convert the original title into a shipindex page. Mjroots (talk) 15:23, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Now I've got another problem with a move of the ship index page. I moved the bare SS Kronprinzessin Cecilie>SS Kronprinzessin Cecilie (1906) forgetting that would leave a redirect that would conflict with an index page move sequence for the alternate spelling Kronprincessin Cecilie to the Kronprinzessin Cecilie used in references. Maybe you could delete that bare redirect so I can do the moves. Palmeira (talk) 15:31, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Tora Tora Tora

By your reasoning, the attacks on the Philippines, Thailand, & Singapore also fit a "see also", & that's equally nonsensical. The "connection" you're arguing makes sense only in explaining how Japan achieved surprise. That's dealt with on the page. The "see also" must have more than a notional connection. If we were talking, here, about the attacks on the Aleutians as part of Operation MI, I'd agree with you; we're not. TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 02:06, 17 June 2015 (UTC) (BTW, I don't need you telling me about being "contentious", either.)

My reasoning? If you want cites I can pull them from some very well respected military and historical sources. You are getting out on a limb in an attempt to disassociate Pearl Harbor from a coordinated and planned Pacific offensive that is pretty well documented. It is a fool's errand to attempt to make coordinated, pre-planned attacks taking place within just over seven hours reduced to a common time as not being associated. Since I have linked, with cites, those other attacks in the lead I'm not too concerned by the "See also" link, but as an aid to readers in understanding the full scope of events of 8 December (Tokyo time and everywhere except Hawaii that was the only attack east of the date line) the "See also" is a good second linking. Before you get argumentative, start deleting cited references and such, I suggest you do some real military history research on the events of those few hours. Pearl Harbor was one, the glaring blunder since it triggered all to come including two mushroom clouds, but just one of Japan's closely coordinated strike across the Pacific that morning. Palmeira (talk) 02:48, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Yes, your reasoning. You're trying to make them part of the Pearl Harbor attack. They aren't. They are part of Japan's greater strategic goals for the Pacific War, which is, you'll notice, not the page in question. The simple fact they were co-ordinated does not mean they were connected. The goals of Hong Kong had damn all to do with Hawaii, beyond them all being carried out by IJN. I notice you aren't asking for P.I. or Thailand to be included; if you're right, why not? Because that is also obvious nonsense. TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 03:05, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

The page is locked down now but a few hints for you. The attack on Pearl was one part of Combined Fleet Operation Order No 1 so, yes, the Japanese made the connection you cannot seem to see. There is also an interesting 2009 piece Staff Ride Handbook for the Attack on Pearl Harbor, 7 December 1941: A Study of Defending America from Combat Studies Institute Press Fort Leavenworth, Kansas that makes the connection. Those are just ones of which I'd been previously unaware. A deep look at the military analysis and history should show you that Pearl Harbor was simply a key part of a set or air attacks on Allied targets that morning and, in the words of that Combat Studies piece "For the purposes of this paper, we will only concentrate on the Pearl Harbor portion of the plan." [p. 1] Your inability to "see a connection" is looking a bit like intentional blind eye. Palmeira (talk) 05:05, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

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SS Portmar

Is the original port of registry for Centaurus known? Mjroots (talk) 07:00, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

I never found a citeable source on line and my easy access to the complete Lloyd's set is gone. About the only little fact I've found in checks the last day or so on that period is here noting "Green Star Steamship Corporation, 120 Broadway, New York, has purchased four 8,800-ton deadweight cargo carriers which are being built by the Northwest Steel Company" with a few mentions elsewhere with even less information. Palmeira (talk) 13:45, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

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File:Old dominion steamship company-LC-DIG-pga-01479.jpg listed for deletion

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George M. Cohan

Hi. I see that you keep adding a lot of information about a ship to the George M. Cohan article. I do not believe that the information is of significance to the Cohan article, but if you insist on adding it, at least pleasse keep it short and relevant to Cohan. Certainly, any mention of Hurley (from a source written by Hurley!) is irrelevant to Cohan's article. -- Ssilvers (talk) 16:48, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

It is short and quite relevant to Cohen as it shows his was more interested in honoring his mother's father than himself. The bit is relevant, not meaningful without the head of the USSB (Hurley) going to the First Lady and then Cohen to make the change. Mess with this cited text any further and you are getting way too close to ownership. I will revert any additional watering down and get other eyes on this if necessary. Palmeira (talk) 23:13, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXIV, September 2015

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors, coordinator elections have begun Articles: Abbasids to a Yugoslav monitor Book reviews: Economics of warfare, Japan, and light horse Op-ed: We can (not) advance Timeline: This month in World War I

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WikiProject Military history coordinator election

Greetings from WikiProject Military history! As a member of the project, you are invited to take part in our annual project coordinator election. If you wish to cast a vote, please do so on the election page by 23:59 (UTC) on 29 September. Yours, Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 05:21, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXV, October 2015

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new Featured and A-Class content Book review: Anotherclown and Sturmvogel 66 on war in the air and at sea Review essay: Auntieruth55 on the French Revolutionary Wars Op-ed: TomStar81 on the entry of Bulgaria in World War I Timeline: This month in World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CXVI, November 2015

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-Class content Book review: Hawkeye7 on the Battle of the Bulge Op-ed: TomStar81 looks at the collapse of the Serbian Army in World War I Timeline: This month in World War I

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ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:09, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Nominations for the Military history WikiProject historian and newcomer of the year awards now open!

On behalf of the Military history WikiProject's Coordinators, we would like to extend an invitation to nominate deserving editors for the 2015 Military historian of the year and Military history newcomer of the year awards. The nomination period will run from 7 December to 23:59 13 December, with the election phase running from 14 December to 23:59 21 December. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:04, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXVII, December 2015

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-Class content Book review: Hawkeye7 on the German retreat from France in 1944 Op-ed: TomStar81 on empires of World War I Timeline: This month in World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CXVIII, January 2016

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D on Jefferson Davis; Hawkeye7 on Australia's war in Vietnam Op-ed: TomStar81 discusses British World War I conscription Timeline: This month in World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CXIX, February 2016

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-Class content Book review: Hawkeye7 on nuclear weapons in Britain and Nick-D on Australia's war in the Pacific Op-ed: TomStar81 looks at the Kamurun Campaign of 1914–16 Timeline: This month in World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CXX, March 2016

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-Class content Book review: Hawkeye7 discusses a Panzer general and a "mercenary mum" Op-ed: TomStar81 on the terrible battles of 1916 Timeline: This month in World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CXXI, April 2016

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 on Australian spies, Nick-D on the German Army Op-ed: TomStar81 on the 1916 Easter Rising Timeline: This month in World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CXXII, May–June 2016

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 on Australian spies (part two) Op-ed: TomStar81 looks at the Battle of Jutland Timeline: Events of World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CXXIII, July 2016

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D on the Australian Imperial Force Op-ed: TomStar81 looks at the Battle of the Somme Timeline: This month in World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CXXIV, August 2016

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 looks at disease control and defence satellites Op-ed: TomStar81 on the rise of air power Timeline: This month in World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CXXV, September 2016

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Peacemaker67 and Nick-D on Nazi terror and covert warfare Op-ed: Hawkeye7 looks at Australians on the Somme Timeline: This month in World War I

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Military history WikiProject coordinator election

Greetings from the Military history WikiProject! Elections for the Military history WikiProject Coordinators are currently underway, and as a member of the WikiProject you are cordially invited to take part by casting your vote(s) for the candidates on the election page. This year's election will conclude at 23:59 UTC 23 September. For the Coordinators, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:01, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXVI, October 2016

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D and Hawkeye7 look at recent works Op-ed: TomStar81 on the evolution of the tank Timeline: This month in World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CXXVII, November 2016

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 looks at two new books on the US military Interview: A chat with our new project coordinators Review essay: Nick-D discusses recent works on the British and Australian Armies in World War I Op-ed: TomStar81 on the end of the Battle of the Somme Timeline: This month in World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CXXVIII, December 2016

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 looks at America's nuclear capability at the start of the Cold War Review essay: Hawkeye7 on the Manhatten Project suite of articles Op-ed: TomStar81 discusses leadership changes in World War I Timeline: This month in World War I

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Voting for the Military history WikiProject Historian and Newcomer of the Year is ending soon!

Time is running out to voting for the Military Historian and Newcomer of the year! If you have not yet cast a vote, please consider doing so soon. The voting will end on 31 December at 23:59 UTC, with the presentation of the awards to the winners and runners up to occur on 1 January 2017. For the Military history WikiProject Coordinators, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:01, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

This message was sent as a courtesy reminder to all active members of the Military History WikiProject.

The Bugle: Issue CXXIX, January 2017

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 and Nick-D look at three recent works Op-ed: TomStar81 on a curious episode of World War I Timeline: This month in World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CXXX, February 2017

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Recent external reviews Op-ed: TomStar81 looks at submarine warfare in World War I Timeline: This month in World War I

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March Madness 2017

G'day all, please be advised that throughout March 2017 the Military history Wikiproject is running its March Madness drive. This is a backlog drive that is focused on several key areas:

• tagging and assessing articles that fall within the project's scope
• updating the project's currently listed A-class articles to ensure their ongoing compliance with the listed criteria
• creating articles that are listed as "requested" on the project's various task force pages or other lists of missing articles.

As with past Milhist drives, there are points awarded for working on articles in the targeted areas, with barnstars being awarded at the end for different levels of achievement.

The drive is open to all Wikipedians, not just members of the Military history project, although only work on articles that fall (broadly) within the military history scope will be considered eligible. More information can be found here for those that are interested, and members can sign up as participants at that page also.

The drive starts at 00:01 UTC on 1 March and runs until 23:59 UTC on 31 March 2017, so please sign up now.

For the Milhist co-ordinators. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) & MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:24, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXXI, March 2017

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 and Nick-D look at works on two facets of US military power Op-ed: TomStar81 on the Russian Revolution Timeline: This month in World War I

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A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	For your efforts in improving the 4th Marine Regiment (United States) I hereby present to you this barnstar. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 22:42, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXXII, April 2017

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D and Hawkeye7 look at air power and nuclear weaponry Op-ed: Hawkeye7 on Australia's part in the advance on the Hindenburg Line Timeline: This month in World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CXXXIII, May 2017

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 on Strategic Air Command doctrine Op-ed: Tomstar81 looks at a little-known aspect of World War I Timeline: This month in World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CXXXIV, June 2017

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 looks at the Battle of Kokoda and US defence acquisition in the 1960s Op-ed: Hawkeye7 on the Battle of Messines Timeline: This month in World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CXXXV, July 2017

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D looks at planning for the unthinkable Op-ed: TomStar81 on Russia's Provisional Government in World War I Timeline: This month in World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CXXXVI, August 2017

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 on the Battle of Messines and recent Australian Army leadership; Nick-D on South African armour Op-ed: Nick-D talks photography Timeline: This month in World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CXXXVII, September 2017

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D and Hawkeye7 look at two recent releases Op-ed: Hawkeye7 on ANZACs in the Third Ypres Offensive Timeline: This month in World War I

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2017 Military history WikiProject Coordinator election

Greetings from the Military history WikiProject! Elections for the Military history WikiProject Coordinators are currently underway. As a member of the WikiProject you are cordially invited to take part by casting your vote(s) for the candidates on the election page. This year's election will conclude at 23:59 UTC 29 September. Thank you for your time. For the current tranche of Coordinators, AustralianRupert (talk) 10:39, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXXVIII, October 2017

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D and Hawkeye7 look at Australian involvement on the Western Front in 1918 and in post-war New Guinea Op-ed: TomStar81 on the October Revolution Timeline: This month in World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CXXXIX, November 2017

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Recent external reviews Op-ed: TomStar81 on late 1917 naval warfare Timeline: This month in World War I

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2017 Military Historian of the Year and Newcomer of the Year nominations and voting

As we approach the end of the year, the Military History project is looking to recognise editors who have made a real difference. Each year we do this by bestowing two awards: the Military Historian of the Year and the Military History Newcomer of the Year. The co-ordinators invite all project members to get involved by nominating any editor they feel merits recognition for their contributions to the project. Nominations for both awards are open between 00:01 on 2 December 2017 and 23:59 on 15 December 2017. After this, a 14-day voting period will follow commencing at 00:01 on 16 December 2017. Nominations and voting will take place on the main project talkpage: here and here. Thank you for your time. For the co-ordinators, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:35, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXL, December 2017

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Recent external reviews Op-ed: TomStar81 on the Halifax Explosion of 1917 Timeline: This month in World War I

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User group for Military Historians

Greetings,

"Military history" is one of the most important subjects when speak of sum of all human knowledge. To support contributors interested in the area over various language Wikipedias, we intend to form a user group. It also provides a platform to share the best practices between military historians, and various military related projects on Wikipedias. An initial discussion was has been done between the coordinators and members of WikiProject Military History on English Wikipedia. Now this discussion has been taken to Meta-Wiki. Contributors intrested in the area of military history are requested to share their feedback and give suggestions at Talk:Discussion to incubate a user group for Wikipedia Military Historians.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:30, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXLI, January 2018

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 looks at tropical medicine and Operation Market Garden Op-ed: Hawkeye7 on US Army doctrine in World War I Timeline: This month in World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CXLII, February 2018

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D on the Napoleonic Wars and Hawkeye7 on World War II Op-ed: Hawkeye7 on generalship in 1918 Timeline: This month in World War I

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If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 07:16, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXLIII, March 2018

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 looks at a work by Daniel Ellsberg Op-ed: TomStar81 on the 1918 flu pandemic Timeline: This month in World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CXLIIV, April 2018

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D looks at the bombing of Darwin; recent books by female military historians Review essay: K.e.coffman on Wikipedia's representations of the Nazi German military Op-ed: TomStar81 on the Red Baron Timeline: This month in World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CXLIV, May 2018

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 looks at coalitions and logistics in World War II, and Nick-D at Australia's frontier wars Timeline: This month in World War I

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If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 15:00, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

/* USS Michigan/Wolverine citation needed */

In January 2015 you flagged the mention that the prow of the USS Michigan/Wolverine can be viewed inside the Erie Maritime Museum as needing a citation. I am new to Wikipedia and wondered what would satisfy your request. The picture right next to this section shows the prow inside the museum. Is that sufficient? Would a link to the web page listing exhibits at the museum satisfy your need? http://www.flagshipniagara.org/erie-maritime-museum/exhibits/uss-michiganwolverine/ I am not sure how to provide a citation. Thank you. EZLivin (talk) 17:01, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXLVI, June 2018

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Recent external reviews Op-ed: TomStar81 on a supergun of World War I Timeline: This month in World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CXLVII, July 2018

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: This month's external reviews Op-ed: TomStar81 on the murder of the Romanovs Timeline: This month in World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CXLVIII, August 2018

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D looks at a classic US official history Op-ed: TomStar81 on belated declarations of war in 1916–18 Timeline: This month in World War I

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If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 08:35, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXLIX, September 2018

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Indy Beetle and Nick-D on the Katangese Gendarmes and India during World War II Op-ed: TomStar81 looks at two important treaties of World War I Timeline: This month in World War I

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If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 22:19, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CL, October 2018

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D looks at the use of so-called "substandard" manpower in armies Interview: On the Bugle turning 150 (issues that is!) Op-ed: TomStar81 on the collapse of empires at the close of World War I Timeline: This month in World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CLI, November 2018

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Peacemaker67 looks at the Sydney Wars Op-ed: TomStar81 on the end of World War I Timeline: This month in World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CLII, December 2018

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Recent external reviews Op-ed: Indy beetle looks at military newspapers in East Africa

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The Bugle: Issue CLIII, January 2019

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D looks at Albert Speer Op-ed: Factotem on common problems affecting infoboxes Timeline: This month in World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CLIV, February 2019

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Recent external reviews Review essay: Nick-D on the Japanese battleship Mikasa

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The Bugle: Issue CLV, March 2019

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 on US Navy aviation safety and Australian war crimes trials

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The Bugle: Issue CLVI, April 2019

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Peacemaker67, Nick-D and Hawkeye7 look at three books focussing on the World Wars Op-ed: Indy Beetle on the fall of Idi Amin

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The Bugle: Issue CLVII, May 2019

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 on Australia's leadership and medical services in World War II and Peacemaker67 on Israel's targeted assassinations Op-ed: TomStar81 looks at the fate of the German fleet at Scapa Flow

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The Bugle: Issue CLVIII, June 2019

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D looks at the Dambusters, and Hawkeye7 at Allied code breakers and Australia in New Guinea and Vietnam Op-ed: TomStar81 on the treaty that ended World War I

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The Bugle: Issue CLIX, July 2019

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Haweye7, Peacemaker67 and Nick-D on recent books covering the world wars

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The Bugle: Issue CLX, August 2019

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 and Peacemaker67 look at Italian, German and Australian forces in World War II

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The Bugle: Issue CLX, August 2019

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 and Peacemaker67 look at Italian, German and Australian forces in World War II

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The Bugle: Issue CLXI, September 2019

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D looks at the legacy of World War II

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The Bugle: Issue CLXII, October 2019

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 and Nick-D look at three works Op-ed: Hawkeye7 on writing a military biography

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The Bugle: Issue CLXIII, November 2019

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Willbb234 on Allied pilots, Hawkeye7 on the defence of Australia and logistics in Indochina, Nick-D on Australian commandos Op-ed: Hawkeye7 reports back on a high-profile history symposium

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If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 21:44, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

"Power" v. "Propulsion" on COTOPAXI

Thanks for the clean up of COTOPAXI infobox items. I've gone back to my previous version regarding "Power" and "Propulsion" because those are different for steam ships. Main boilers, the basic ship power, usually provided steam to drive both main engines and auxiliaries that included winches, windlasses, generators and such with the rating in PSI. The main propulsion engines were rated in various measures of HP. Therefore "Ship Power" was the main boilers with recognition that many ships upon inspection of details in engineering articles had auxiliary boilers for emergency power or driving some auxiliaries and so on. We sort of get into that situation with later indirect electric drives where a main generator system provided power for both the electric drives and all other ship electrical systems. Even more complicated are some of electric generator sets that were still powered by steam. Palmeira (talk) 17:08, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CLXIV, December 2019

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 and Nick-D look at works on aspects of the Second World War and Cold War

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If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 12:48, 19 December 2019 (UTC)