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Tech News: 2019-12

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Changes later this week

  • When you use rollback you will be able to get a confirmation prompt on most wikis. It asks you if you wanted to do the rollback. This is to avoid misclicks. You will have to opt in to get it. On German Wikipedia it will be an opt-out feature from 28 March. [1][2]
  • Recurrent item The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 19 March. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 20 March. It will be on all wikis from 21 March (calendar).

Meetings

  • Recurrent item Advanced item You can join the technical advice meeting on IRC. During the meeting, volunteer developers can ask for advice. The meeting will be on 20 March at 16:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Future changes

  • Admins will be able to block someone from editing a page or a namespace. This already works on a few Wikimedia wikis. You can read more. If your wiki wants to be an early tester of this, you can tell the developers. [3]
  • Advanced item Toolforge will shut down the Ubuntu Trusty job grid. This will happen the week of 25 March. Tools that use this grid needs to be moved to the new Debian Stretch job grid. If they haven't, they will be taken offline. Maintainers can restart the tools later. Users may not be able to use them in the meanwhile. You can see a list of affected tools.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

19:43, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Thank you

Dear NorthA,

Thank you very much for your support of @The Transhumanist:. Your dedication is outstanding. There are some people in this world who just cannot see dedication and motivation.

If you ever need help on any Wikiprojects or articles, hit me up. I am always by your side.

Thank you AmericanAir88(talk) 15:10, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Addendum to Portals update #30

The Transhumanist banned from creating new portals for 3 months

See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Proposal 1: Interim Topic-Ban on New Portals.

This week's article for improvement (week 12, 2019)

Many of the internal organs of the human body
Hello, Northamerica1000.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Organ (anatomy)

Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: Zipper • Wanted poster

Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations

Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:05, 18 March 2019 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

Nomination of List of microbreweries for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article List of microbreweries is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of microbreweries (2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 08:05, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

MfD nomination of Portal:Pigs

Portal:Pigs, a page which you created or substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Pigs and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Portal:Pigs during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:06, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Tech News: 2019-13

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

  • The new version of the content translation tool will be used for all new translations. The older version will still be used for translations that were started with it. Most users won’t see any change. More than 80% of the published translations are already using the new version. [4]

Problems

  • There was a problem with editing with Safari on iOS. When you wrote an edit summary you couldn't save the edit. This has now been fixed. [5]
  • The editing toolbar sometimes disappears when you scroll on iOS devices. This will be fixed soon. [6]
  • Wikis can over-ride interface messages on-wiki. A problem meant that sometimes an old versions of any changed messages were shown instead. This included the sitenotice and other important parts of the interface. This was fixed at around 2019-03-22 16:00 (UTC). Logged-out users may still get the wrong message. Purging the page should fix it for them. [7]

Changes later this week

  • Recurrent item The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 26 March. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 27 March. It will be on all wikis from 28 March (calendar).

Meetings

  • Recurrent item Advanced item You can join the technical advice meeting on IRC. During the meeting, volunteer developers can ask for advice. The meeting will be on 27 March at 16:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

18:05, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

Delsort - AfD

Hi northamerica1000, Greetings. I nominated 4 mixed martial arts fighter articles for AfD - see HERE and done the delsort after 3 days ago. However, they dont show up in Wikipedia:WikiProject Mixed martial arts as they normally do. Kindly advise and thanks in advance. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 16:43, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

I don't contribute much in the Martial arts/mixed martial arts areas, so I don't have an opinion regarding which topics should be included where in the delsort pages. North America1000 18:30, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
@Hellknowz: and Northamerica1000, Hi good day. Just to inform you guys that after 4 days since user Hellknowz added this, no of AfDs are alert notification displayed in the 'Article alert section' of Wikipedia:WikiProject Mixed martial arts. For such no comments/votes/discussions are made for the 4 AfDs I have nominated as editors who are interest in WikiProject MMA do not know about the nomination. Could this be "delsort" tag needs to place int the talk page banner? What could be done further to get this fix? Kindly help. Thanks in advance. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 03:09, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
After investigating, I concluded that the bot wasn't picking up delsorts. I now fixed it (will be deployed some time soonish). Thanks CASSIOPEIA for noticing this! I can't believe I missed that the bot wasn't picking up certain pages and none since recent delsort overhauls. (I guess projects I tested with are "too" diligent in tagging their pages with proper talk page banners.) —  HELLKNOWZ   ▎TALK 11:31, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
Hi @Hellknowz: good day. Thank you very much for helping up and the bot has picked up delsort finally - see MMA article for deletion alerts. Once again appreciate all the work and your effort in assisting on this matter. Cheers. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 08:24, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

Why are you renewing the afd for Jean Mill?

This is the third Afd. and your second one on the article. I am hopeful that the Afd will be removed...but not if you keep renewing it. Please stop. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lubbad85 (talk • contribs) 03:31, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Hello Lubbad85: The article has only been deleted once before, via speedy deletion, because it consisted of blatant copyright infringement. See the deletion log for the page for more information. So, this is not the third AfD as you state above. I relisted the present AfD discussion because only three users have contributed to the discussion, with two of the users making up a large majority of the content. See WP:RELIST, where it states that such discussions can be relisted twice in hopes to obtain more input, "in general, debates should not be relisted more than twice". My second relist was just that, a second relisting of the present discussion. North America1000 03:41, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

North America Thank you for the response. This Jean Mill article was never deleted, it was marked Afd. The article was then improved. So the history of the present Jean Mill article only involves Afd's as follows:

  • 1. Afd March 7
  • 2. Afd March 14
  • 3. Afd March 21

I am hopeful that this is the last Afd. I am also hopeful that a a lack of votes will not precipitate a forth afd. Lubbad85 (talk) 13:51, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

  • The article has been deleted once, per copyright infringement, as per the deletion log, where it states, "02:33, 3 March 2007 Centrx (talk | contribs | block) deleted page Jean Mill (content was: '{{copyvio|http://www.petpublishing.com/catkit/breeds/bengal.shtml}}')". The same AfD discussion that has been relisted is not a new discussion, it is the same discussion. In other words, there have not been multiple AfDs as you state above. Hope this clarifies matters for you. North America1000 21:53, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

You are referring to a 12 year old deletion from 2007. That has nothing to do with these three consecutive Afd notices. Lubbad85 (talk) 02:03, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Please try and understand what N has told you. There are not three separate AFDs. There is one AFD that has been relisted to gain a wider consensus. MarnetteD|Talk 02:26, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Draft

I'm inclined to approve Draft:Hank_Shaw_(author) but I'd like to get your input first. Atsme Talk 📧 19:50, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Prune juice

Simple tool that works well for back-ups logs

You still haven't bought any. What's blocking you? :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:14, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

😂 Atsme Talk 📧 22:18, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
@Atsme: I'm trying to get moving on the article. North America1000 22:33, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
We are past the cherry juice, and now your stacking on prune juice which only adds to the growing piles. Maybe there's room on Uranus...Atsme Talk 📧 23:41, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
Oh no, this thread is most irregular. And Uranus is a hole other matter. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:26, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
The Archives — for things that are pushed too far. Atsme Talk 📧 13:01, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

You should maybe archive this. I think we pushed it too far. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:34, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

^_^ No strain. It will all soon pass. Atsme Talk 📧 13:01, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
Just been trying to get a moooooo-vveee on to clear out the back-log of articles that need creation. There's more where that came from. North America1000 15:18, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
How now brown cow wrote some graffiti, then acted nonchalantly hoping nobody noticed he did it
True story...I just did a Google search for public domain images of "prune juice" for the article, and the only CC-0 licensed image that showed up in the search was the picture of a toilet with the lid up. :- Be thinking iPhoneography next trip to the grocery store. Atsme Talk 📧 16:42, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
Forget the graffiti. Imagine there's a bull in the background.
Hi Atsme. You probably already know this, but if you take a pic of a bottle, and that bottle is the main element in the image, then it will likely be a copyvio. You can get around that by taking a pic of a whole shelf of prune juice products, like this pic of chicken powders. I think this is correct. Northamerica1000, am I right here? Best, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:23, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
@Anna Frodesiak and Atsme: It depends, and is subject to interpretation based upon what is in an actual image. So, an image needs to meet WP:NFCCP. If it meets this, then in addition to the standard information included on the file page, one also needs to use the {{Non-free product cover}} template. If the image is a photo of art or has copyrighted artwork in it, the {{photo of art}} template also needs to be used. See an example below for all of this, where a photo of art template is used in unison with the product cover template. Easy peasy, right? North America1000 22:11, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
  • {{photo of art|{{cc-by-sa-2.0}}|[Username]|{{cc-by-sa-2.0}}}}{{Non-free product cover|image has rationale=yes}} produces:
  • Sounds like a pain in the butt and a load of... oh, wait, we're done with those jokes. Seriously, sounds like a hassle and the pic would be low res, right? So, why not either a pic of a wall of products or a bottle with a super-old logo like Coca Cola where the copyright has expired. Another choice is just buy they stuff, photograph a glass, and maybe some spilled on a white surface to see the brownness, and then drink it and feel great the next day. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:40, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
  • 😂 AF, how have I not managed to run into you before now? I'm treating rug burns! My thoughts - generic clear plastic bottle filled with prune juice - no labels/logo - a scattering of prunes for garnishment at the base of a juice glass filled with prune juice, use a white studio LED lightbox to show the contrasting prune color (or drape with a used cloth diaper). Atsme Talk 📧 23:08, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

To confused stalkers who think we are gross or nuts or both: NA1000 started prune juice and I encouraged him to buy the juice and photograph the stuff for the article because we do not have an image at Commons. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:45, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

  • You could force yourself to drink it. Hahahaha kidding. Fair enough. The stuff is revolting. Odd how you can dry meat into jerky and add value, but you dry a plum and you get vile, undrinkable sewage. What a waste of good fruit. Oh, that reminds me of the least P.C. joke: Guy comes up to the rich guy on the street and says "Sir, I haven't eaten in three days." Rich guy replies "You should force yourself." Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:44, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
  • @Anna Frodesiak: Actually, the article would benefit from the addition of information about its flavor. I personally don't mind the flavor, kind of earthy, kind of fruity, not really that bad, but not my favorite either. Of course, this is all subjective. North America1000 01:07, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

Handy new script

I just got a great new script that takes the url and changes it to example [[Wikipedia:User scripts/Requests#A script to help with underscores]], stripping of the https.... and replacing underscores with spaces and adding the open and closed brackets. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:48, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 13, 2019)

Lady Gaga playing a keytar, which is a type of keyboard instrument
Hello, Northamerica1000.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Keyboard instrument

Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: Organ (anatomy) • Zipper

Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations

Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:05, 25 March 2019 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

Sten Lagergen

Thanks for accepting my article on Sten Lagergren (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sten_Lagergren). May I call your attention that this article is erroneously linked to the article https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sten_Lagergren of the Swedish Wikipedia, since the two persons are not identical. The two articles should be unlinked. Schubaa (talk) 22:16, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

User warnings

It doesn't excuse Legacypac's behavior, but an editor with that amount of experience is entitled to a personal note instead of a template. It's a Wikipedia norm. Maybe you were just using Twinkle without thinking, in which case an apology might persuade them to stand down. RockMagnetist(talk) 00:47, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

I'll keep that in mind, and I'm fully aware of the Wikipedia:Don't template the regulars essay. However, when a user continues to become agitated toward others that disagree with their stances regarding portal-related matters, a personalized message could be misinterpreted as a taunt, which is never my purpose. So, I used a template message instead, as it is more formal. I'm here to build an encyclopedia. North America1000 01:00, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
Well, you could try reaching out to Legacypac with that explanation. It might help. RockMagnetist(talk) 01:10, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
Just letting it be at this time, because: 1) I don't want to potentially unintendedly provoke them further, per my above comment, 2) I haven't done anything wrong, 3) The user already disagrees with the content of the initial message, and 4) I am working on other matters at this time. North America1000 01:24, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

Harassment

You following me and trash talking me is getting real old. The only way you would have found some recent edits would be by stalking me. Legacypac (talk) 04:33, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

  • I reverted some of your unilateral redirections of portals according to guidelines at WP:DDE, because some of your editing recently has been disruptive, in my opinion. In no means was this meant to cause you any distress. I also began discussions on each talk page for the reversions.
I am concerned that your actions are causing real harm to the encyclopedia at this time, to the point of violating guidelines at Wikipedia:Disruptive editing, such as WP:DISRUPTSIGNS. Others have also agreed with my concerns, such as at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:English language (2nd nomination). North America1000 04:44, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
PMC and another editor called you out for templating me. PMC told you my redirect was within acceptable solutions. I just now see your lame excuse above for the templating. Your actions are causing harm - you are too invested emotionally in opposing the community supported cleanup of portals. You might be an Admin but continue down this road of harassment and that could change. Legacypac (talk) 04:48, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

While Wikipedia:Don't template the regulars exists, it's only an opinion essay, not a guideline or policy. So, you don't like these. Okay.

There have been significant concerns voiced by multiple users lately regarding your behavior, that it has been disruptive:

  • Also, your block log demonstrates an ongoing pattern of disruptive editing – Block log

Please consider keeping in mind some of the concerns I and others have had regarding your actions. Thank you. North America1000 05:45, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

Category:School portals has been nominated for discussion

Category:School portals, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Legacypac (talk) 23:17, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Hello, Northamerica1000. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Fixed an article you denied PROD

Hey NorthA!

I saw that you denied a Prod on the article Holiday Airlines (US airline). I decided to do a complete fix of the article and add links to it. I have added and de-orphaned it. Keep up the good work. I will try to back you up.

Thank you. AmericanAir88(talk) 00:50, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

  • Thanks for improving the article. I added a couple of newish articles atop my user page that can be expanded. I also like working on airport-related articles, but lately haven't done much in that area. North America1000 11:06, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Portal:New York City

 Fixed    — The Transhumanist   08:20, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks very much for the punctual follow-up. North America1000 08:35, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

Harassment

This is bull. [9]. Applying your logic you should not edit the page either and neither should TTH as the biggest cheerleader of portals. Reverse yourself. Legacypac (talk) 01:14, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

WP:BRD. See Wikipedia talk:Portal/Guidelines § WP:BRD revert of recent additions, where I began a discussion after reversion. Note that I have the Wikipedia:Portal/Guidelines page watchlisted, which is how I noticed the controversial changes. This is not harassment whatsoever: reversions of controversial, unilateral additions to policy pages are common on Wikipedia. WP:BRD is a functional way to move forward to further qualify your changes, if you'd like. Perhaps others will agree with you, and a consensus can be formed to include the changes on the Guideline page. North America1000 01:21, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
You reversed my minor changes because of who I am. You are an Admin prohibiting from editing a policy page because you disagree with me. That is not acceptable. You dispute that portals go to MfD? Also you have previously been stalking my edits. Legacypac (talk) 01:37, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

No. The reversion was performed per my rationale above. Furthermore, I and others are concerned that your actions are causing real harm to the encyclopedia at this time, to the point of violating guidelines at Wikipedia:Disruptive editing, such as WP:DISRUPTSIGNS. Actions are performed entirely in accordance with WP:DDE. In no manner was this meant to cause you any distress. See below for some diffs regarding recent concerns:

  • Furthermore, your block log demonstrates an ongoing pattern of disruptive editing – Block log

– North America1000 01:50, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

---------------------------------------------------------------------

More diffs below. North America1000 03:05, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

A bunch of useless links and wikilawyering. Your behavior is disruptive and pointy in the extreme. Legacypac (talk) 09:42, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 March 2019

News, reports and features from the English Wikipedia's weekly journal about Wikipedia and Wikimedia

This week's article for improvement (week 14, 2019)

The interior of a gym in The Netherlands, around 1900
Hello, Northamerica1000.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Gym

Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: Keyboard instrument • Organ (anatomy)

Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations

Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:05, 1 April 2019 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

Prune juice

Hi, North! Nice new article about prune juice, but you left out the fun fact that prune juice can be mixed with vodka to create a drink known as a "pile driver". 0;-D -- MelanieN (talk) 19:53, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Ahhh...the jokes keep piling on. Perhaps in time it will all pass smoothly, but it may take a bit of preparation. Atsme Talk 📧 22:10, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:29, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

I used to have an addiction to prunes. I just couldn’t go without them. North America1000 00:33, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
😂 Atsme Talk 📧 01:21, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
@Atsme: File:La variable PQ.png Golden. North America1000 01:24, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
Save it for ANI. They need it more. Atsme Talk 📧 01:26, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
(orange butt icon Buttinsky) (Don't blame me - Atsme invented that one! -- MelanieN (talk) 01:54, 2 April 2019 (UTC))
Is that a plumber emoji?! North America1000 11:43, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
Indeed, but what you don't see is that it's an ad for buttcrack spackle. Atsme Talk 📧 13:03, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
God, I wish I didn't view that. What's all this talk about prune juice, poop and now butts? I guess I'm the butt of all the jokes. North America1000 02:13, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
And all because you wrote an article about prunes? That's plum crazy. -- MelanieN, trying to change the subject to something a little more, uh, wholesome (talk) 15:32, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
P.S. This subject would have made a great DYK. Too bad it wasn't ready by April 1. -- MelanieN (talk) 15:41, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

@Atsme and MelanieN: Well, Anna Frodesiak said somewhere before that they may break down and actually go buy a bottle, to add a nicer image to the article. May want to stop at the toiletries section while at the grocery too, eh? North America1000 15:32, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Don't buy anything you don't need. I'm almost done with the image. Atsme Talk 📧 16:30, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
@Atsme: Maybe it was you, and I'm getting people mixed up. At any rate, any and all improvements to the article are appreciated! North America1000 16:32, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
@Atsme: Nice! North America1000 17:22, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
Lots of PRUNE JUICE. Drink up now!
Thank you. :-) Atsme Talk 📧 19:53, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Notice

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Legacypac (talk)

New articles

Cherry juice

– North America1000 09:30, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

Drafts at MfD

Hi. Is there a specific reason why you are nominating some drafts for MfD? MfD is already swamped with portal nominations, and these drafts are not linked from mainspace, not google indexed, and will get deleted after six months anyway. If they aren't blatant enough for speedy deletion, it is much easier to simply leave them alone and let them disappear in a few months. And of course if they truly are blatant enough to be speedied (as promo, copyvio, BLP vio, ...), then just tag or speedy them, but don't bring them to MfD please. While MfD is technically the place to discuss deletion of drafts, it is very rarely helpful to actually nominate them, and only puts an additional burden on our deletion discussions. Fram (talk) 08:01, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

The drafts I nominated were found by using custom searches in draft namespace. Some are quite promotional, but may not quite qualify for WP:G11, so I initiated MfD discussions for wider community input, because MfD is where drafts are discussed. While some content in draft namespace obviously qualifies for G11 deletion, not all of it does, and Wikipedia is not a medium to promote topics for six months, to then wait for G11 G13 deletion. After all, WP:NOTPROMO is part of the What Wikipedia is not policy page, and the policy should not be dismissed because portals are being discussed at MfD. As such, I disagree with the notion of a moratorium of drafts being discussed there. Furthermore, there is no precedent for the existence of discussions about portal namespace content to preclude the nomination of content in draft namespace. This makes sense, because after all, it's not a "portals for deletion" page solely devoted to that matter. Also, the amount of draft content I nominated really wasn't that much, and wholly pales in comparison to the mass of portal deletion nominations there. An idea is to perhaps consider asking those mass nominating portals for deletion to consider slowing down a bit, or to discuss your ideas at the MfD talk page for wider community input. North America1000 08:57, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
Portals are linked to from the mainspace (and cats and so on), drafts are normally not linked from anywhere. Portals don't have a default deletion mechanism, drafts have one. But even when we would have no portals on MfD, the question remains why we would spend time debating drafts at MfD? What is the point of putting pages to a community discussion when they are hidden from the readers anyway, are not blatant enough to be speedied, and will get deleted in a few months time in any case. Drafts get rejected for being too promotional, and then the editors get 6 months to rewrite the page to remove the promotionalism and turn it into a compliant page. For some reason, you want to reduce that allotted time. The benefit of your action? Nothing at all. The cost of your action? More MfDs, wasting community time, and more pages deleted early, reducing the (already slim) chance that they will become acceptable articles after all, and giving the editors involved another negative experience. While for most of your nominations I don't see this happen, something like Draft:WEN ZHONGLIN 温忠麟 certainly has a chance, and nominating this for deletion only weeks after it has been rejected is a WP:BITE violation. Fram (talk) 09:18, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
I read your comment regarding Draft:WEN ZHONGLIN 温忠麟 at the MfD discussion, and will keep your opinions here and there in mind. However, in this instance, the draft is a rather blatant WP:NOTRESUME situation. If I tagged it for speedy G11, it's quite possible that another admin would have simply deleted it, and would not have considered BITE to be a factor at all. Rather, I took it to MfD for a wider discussion, because that's part of MfD's purpose. My error regarding not checking the user's contribution history prior to nominating, as I have no intention of dissuading new editors whatsoever. However, while it's important to not be bitey, it's also important for Wikipedia's draft namespace to not be used for advertising as a resume hosting service. North America1000 09:44, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
@Fram: Upon further analysis, I'm just not seeing any precedent for all of the sudden halting all Draft nominations at MfD, simply because a precedent already exists that drafts are commonly discussed at MfD. For example, at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Archived debates/March 2019, there are 61 MfD nominations listed for Draft namespace content. See below for more statistics:
Notwithstanding the WEN ZHONGLIN draft, which is a singular matter, it does not seem equitable for me to be asked to not nominate drafts at MfD while others who have recently done the exact same thing appear to have not received the same request from you at all. This is not meant to impugn your views, but it doesn't seem appropriate for me to be asked to immediately stop while others have not. If you feel strongly that drafts should not be discussed at MfD, it should be taken to the MfD talk page. Upon consideration, I may still nominate problematic drafts at MfD that do not qualify for speedy deletion, considered on a case-by-case basis relative to the content and potential situational variables. Conversely, I also appreciate that per the existence of WP:G13, some nominations do not need to occur, something I have known for quite some time. North America1000 12:17, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
Willful disruption to prove a point. Yes, Drafts go to MfD all the time. No, you should not be nominating drafts at MFD that can be speedy deleted right now under two different criteria such as Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Draft:Colonny. Regular users have been blocked for such disruption. Legacypac (talk) 17:10, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

Not sure what "point" I could trying to "prove", because there is none. I have already stated why the content was nominated; I'm not going to keep repeating it over and over again. North America1000 17:13, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

Legacypac, I know you do excellent work at AfC/NPP and I can't recall any substantial differences of opinion in our past interactions but at the same time, I also know that NA1K does excellent work as an admin and content creator who has always been polite, thorough, and someone who edits in the best interests of the project. I respectfully request that you not continue making allegations of disruption against NA1K as they are not supported either by behavior or edit history. I understand your perspective and resulting frustration, but I also understand NA1K's perspective and commend the composure and reserve they have maintained throughout these Portal discussions. With all due respect, I believe you are being overly harsh toward a kind and thoughtful admin/editor who is simply doing what they think best for WP. Please consider toning down your approach. Kindest regards, Atsme Talk 📧 23:47, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
Thanks User:Atsme - I believe the hostility and pointy behavior is coming from NA1000 who is frustrated that the community has rejected her mass created portals. See [[User:Fram\\'s comments above and the non-credible responses, as well as the retaliatory attacks at ANi when I called out her behavior. Legacypac (talk) 00:04, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Atsme's kind words

@Atsme: To reiterate, not sure what "point" I could have been trying to "prove", because there was none. Furthermore, there is no hostility. There is no frustration. There is no retaliation. There are no attacks, not on my part. I perform none of this. Reasoned, calm discussion is none of this. I nominated some content at MfD and was then asked here to stop by a user who is strongly for the deletion of automated portals, and has been nominating them at MfD. Then, others in the "delete all portals" group eagerly jump on the bandwagon, criticizing entirely normative, commonplace actions (nominating non-mainspace content at MfD) as somehow deviant, and ambiguously as pointy behavior without stating what that point could possibly be. There was no ulterior point. As I denoted above, it's commonplace for drafts to be discussed at MfD.

Very soon afterward, another user who is strongly for the deletion of all automated portals performed the very same thing, nominating a draft at MfD (Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Draft:GPV International A/S, which was subsequently deleted per WP:G11), and received no such request to stop, bad-faith suspicions of ill intent, or criticism to not nominate content that could qualify for speedy deletion. It's hypocritical, and unfortunately, likely highly partisan. When one with a pro-deletion mindset regarding portals performed the same action of nominating a draft, those sharing that mindset then suddenly have no qualms about it.

Unfortunately, this type of partisanship and double standards are a part of Wikipedia nowadays more than ever, which can contribute to confirmation bias, as well as problems in judgments being made based upon ingroup and outgroup biases, such as in-group favoritism. North America1000 06:29, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Tech News: 2019-14

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16:29, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

New food and drink articles

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