Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Palestine/Archive 9

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Archive 5

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Articles that need to be moved

Accuarding to a consensus that was reached HERE we can clrealy say that accuarding to all the needed source, the Palestinian National Authority still exists and was never transformed or dissolved into the 1988's PLO declared State of Palestine. Therefore there are articles that needs to be moved.

--Bolter21 20:25, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

I support the move for articles that are directly related to territories and not to the political entity in (partial) control: geography, buildings (mosques/cathedrals/etc) or cities. For "administered by" lists and political officials entries we should be more careful - it's a complicated matter. For example, there could be an official called health minister both at PNA and SOP, and both position could be held by the same person. “WarKosign ”
Oppose: this proposal is poorly structured and I disagree with most if not all of the proposals above. The consensus seemed to be that the PNA still exists in some form. But the SoP exists as well, and is also now the official name for the PNA. Oncenawhile (talk) 21:47, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
Oppose, pr Oncenawhile, Huldra (talk) 21:49, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Comment: I´m sure all the suggested moves would be approved by the Yesha Council: that does´t make it right. Just one example: Health Minister of the State of Palestine *is* the official name, like it or not. This is like suggesting moving Ministry of Health (Israel) to Ministry of Health (Zionist enitity); List of mosques in Israel moved to List of mosques in the Zionist enitity, etc, Please stop disrupting Wikipedia. Huldra (talk) 23:08, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Comment: @Oncenawhile: @Huldra: Be spesific and give claims. Most of those names are suggesting the SoP is recognized by Wikipedia regardless of it being a partially recognized De Jure state. The State of Palestine doesn't administrate any cities, the Palestinian government of the Palestinian National Authority does. De Jure there are mosques in the State of Palestine but only if you recognize the State of Palestine which is POV not to mention the extreme POV being that all of the mosques in this list are in East Jerusalem. The article was unilaterally moved by Greyshark09 from Lists of mosques in Israel and Palestine following the wrong consensus. I will add a reason and then please recomment about this. --Bolter21 23:03, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

@Oncenawhile: @Huldra: I gave claims on why to change, not to all cause it's 4:25AM local time, will continue tommorow --Bolter21 01:26, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Support the move for all articles except List of cathedrals in Palestine. Reason is that it seems premature for Wikipedia to declare a statehood that does not actually yet exist. As an example of what makes this "state" more myth than reality, the government of Gaza is entirely separate form the government of the West Bank. The exception in my opinion is for the List of cathedrals in Palestine, which should be moved to List of cathedrals in Jerusalem - this will make it a simple, informative list with no politics. And none of the cathedrals are in territory actually governed either by Hamas or by Fatah.E.M.Gregory (talk) 22:20, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Opposed Each case is different. More, this proposal is a just an attempt to ban the concept of State of Palestine. Pluto2012 (talk) 22:36, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

The State of Palestine is a De Jure state, it was declared in 1988 and since then it represents the Palestinian people internationaly. It doesn't controll anything nor it administrates anything. The Palestinian National Authority does. Your agenda is to lie in order to over legitemizing the idea of "State of Palestine". Insteed of saying words, bring sources to what you claim. My campign to fix the false claim that the PNA transformed to SoP in 2013 started over a week ago, most of the people who discussed agreed with me and those like you who support Palestine more then facts avoided commenting since they had no sources which is ridiculous. Greyshark have runied an enitire category of articles on his own will with bear acception of anyone and now he can't say anything to me cause he know I am right cause I gave over 40 sources and he gave 0. Enough with not agreeing, give claims and sources, unless your comment is worthless --Bolter21 01:21, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Oppose There has not been a proper discussion. There has only been a lot of bullying by Bolter21 who refuses to accept any other opinion and now violates WP:NPA by accusing another editor of lying. A proper course of action would be to report Bolter21 on a behavior noticeboard. Zero^talk 01:59, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Read discussion. 8 days passed and no one have yet to bring any argument to support an oppose to all of the things I offered above. Needless to say, two people who agreed wrote an explenation while the people who opposed wrote nothing. I have over 40 source and you have non = prefer an unbased lie. I am extremely aggressive in this argument cause I can't understand the insolence of a small group of editors who bring no RS to a gigantic claim and still refuse to accept that they are simply lying. Especially Grayshark who unilaterally changed half of the Palestine related articles with one poorly based on a mistake which was proven by the Palestinian President himself.--Bolter21 10:32, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Oppose Regardless of the status of the Palestinian Authority, the issue about the State of Palestine is another one. This has already been told by Greyshark09 to Bolter21. It has to do with the United Nations General Assembly resolution 67/19 three years ago, which made Palestine a non-member observer state. So to argue for removing Palestine because PA may still be a separate entity makes no sense. --IRISZOOM (talk) 12:31, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

This would be an act of Wikipedia recognizing the State of Palestine, completly removing any trace of acual facts in the field. The UN recognized SoP as a non-member observer. The biggest concern is "Cities administrated by the State of Palestine" which suggest the SoP administrate something. There is no source to say that "since 2012 resolution 67/19 or 2013 January decree, the 1988 PLO declared State of Palestine now replace the jurisdiction of the Palestinian National Authority". How can there be a city that is administrated by the State of Palestine? THERE ARE ONLY SOURCES THAT SAY THAT THE UN FROM NOW ON WILL CALL THE PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES "STATE OF PALESTINE", THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THIS IS THE STATE OF PALESTINE, THIS IS JUST A FORMAL MOVE --Bolter21 12:45, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

We follow reliable sources and Palestine is now a sovereign state according to many sources. If PA is a separate entity or not has nothing to do with this.

I don't think the scope and related title of that article is good, which is why I created a discussion on that in that article's talk page. Either it should say the West Bank respectively Gaza, the Palestinian territories or State of Palestine. Now it says List of cities administered by the State of Palestine and List of cities in the Gaza Strip, which is an awkward split. There is also a problem with saying something is "in the Palestinian Authority". A city, sport teams etc. can't be located in a government, which is what the PA is. So "in Palestinian Authority" is not a good term and it should say the Palestinian territories or State of Palestine. Sure, there is an option that says "Palestinian Authority areas/territories" but the Palestinian territories is by far the most used term. Such names and wordings are many time on purpose used to exclude Gaza and Israeli settlements but it is weird that common names should be adjusted because Hamas controls Gaza and Israel builds settlements. In addition to that, listing cities in the Palestinian territories can still be done with excluding Israeli settlements. When strictly talking about PA areas, the term can make sense but not otherwise. This is something I also said on that talk page. --IRISZOOM (talk) 13:24, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

We follow sources, and the sources say that SoP has no defined borders, only territorial claims. It is wrong to say that anything is within something that lacks borders. PNA does have defined borders for its partial control, so it's correct to say that something is under administrative control of the PNA. West Bank and Gaza certainly have well-defined borders, so describing something as being located in the West Bank is correct and NPOV. East Jerusalem is an exception, in this case describing something as located in EJ (without reiterating the dispute over its de-juro vs de-facto status) is also simple. “WarKosign ” 14:22, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Well, if it comes to that the state of Israel has no defined borders either. But no-one has raised that as a reason for not stating that a place or entity is within Israel. So that is a poor argument. <by RolandR> 14:30, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

I see this argument repeated and it's simply false. In fact Israel has at least 2 sets of border definitions. Here you can see internationally recognized borders of Israel, and of courses Israel claims another definition which includes EJ and Golan heights. Whichever you pick, it is well-defined. “WarKosign ” 14:40, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Actually, the only internationally recognised borders are those of the 1947 UN Partition Plan. Israel, however, does not accept these; but it has never, in any form, specified just what it recognises as its borders. RolandR (talk) 17:36, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

You may wish to have a look at Borders of Israel (and its sources, of course). “WarKosign ” 20:40, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

You should read the article because RolandR is right. Pluto2012 (talk) 06:17, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

State of Palestine isn't defined well but the Palestinian territories is, in contrast to saying something is in the PA, which is a government and not an area. That is what I wrote about and "PNA does have defined borders for its partial control, so it's correct to say that something is under administrative control of the PNA" has nothing to do with what I wrote. I wrote my point as clearly it can be. --IRISZOOM (talk) 15:08, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

We seem to be in agreement here. It is correct to say that something is in the Palestinian Territories, it is correct to say that something is on the territories administered by the PNA (whether it is more or less useful than saying that it's in PT is another matter), it is *not* correct to say that something is in SoP because it has no borders and does not administer anything. We should divide Bolter21 list of articles to 3 categories:

Things that have/had physical locations, such as geography, cities, buildings or people: they can be said to be in PT or PNA-administered area, but not in SoP.
Things actually administered by PNA, such as energy or sport - should be under PNA, unless they are applicable to the whole PT, then under PT.
Political entities such as parties or officials should be under PNA.

If there is general agreement on this approach, I will prepare these lists, we can agree on what is obvious and continue discussing on the harder issues. “WarKosign ” 15:36, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

It looks we agree on most things but I am wondering about the third part that is related to something you wrote in the beginning about ministries etc. For example, there is something called the Prime Minister of the State of Palestine even if the PA is used too. --IRISZOOM (talk) 16:04, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Let's see first if this problem actually exists. I had no specific article/situation in mind, was just considering the worst possible scenario to resolve. “WarKosign ” 20:40, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Some of the proposals here are examples of this problem and also recent changes at Mahmoud Abbas. --IRISZOOM (talk) 21:13, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

RFC: Is the One Million Plan relevant to the Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries?

See the RFC at:

Talk:Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries#RFC:_Is_the_One_Million_Plan_relevant_to_the_topic_of_this_article?.

Oncenawhile (talk) 15:18, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

RFC List of military occupations

There is an RFC here that you may be interested in.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 18:52, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Assessment box on project page needs updating

From what I can tell, the assessment box hasn't been updated since December 6; there are a lot of articles that are listed in the wrong place, and I've been assessing a lot of the pages that haven't shown up yet. TrickyH (talk) 12:57, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

@TrickyH: Thank you for your efforts. As far I know, the assessment box is updated by a bot on a regular basis. I'm honestly not completely sure about the mechanics of it all. --Al Ameer (talk) 19:28, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Correct. Tricky, you might find this page useful: Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Palestine-related articles by quality log. Oncenawhile (talk) 19:52, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Great, thanks guys! TrickyH (talk) 09:14, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

RfC: Proposal to fix a long term structural problem in Palestine Israel conflict articles

Please see WT:IPCOLL#RfC: Proposal to fix a long term structural problem in Palestine Israel conflict articles. Oncenawhile (talk) 22:12, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

A plea for a 100 year narrative

Given the importance of the conflict articles to our project I had hoped for more feedback at this RFC, but I think I overcomplicated the description. Some editors may also be thinking "we've been just fine for 10 years so is there really a problem here that needs solving"? I would like to encourage more editors to contribute.

The core issue behind the RFC question is that most readers know very little about the conflict and therefore need one single summary article to read and begin their journey, and we need that single summary article to broadly match the picture that the 1,000s of books summarizing this conflict take. Instead we have sat for many years with three primary articles (IPC since 48, AIC since 48 and ICMP 20-48) which are fine but are missing something above them to thread them together into the 100-year-narrative of the conflict presented by the vast majority of books on the topic.

I recognize that many editors may find the question is a little more dry and boring than many of the debates around here, but its importance to the average Wikipedia reader can hardly be overstated. Oncenawhile (talk) 11:02, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Currency

Discussion here about correcting the placement of the article on the Israeli pound, per its WP:COMMON ENGLISH name and that used by the Bank of Israel. — $Llywelyn II$ 06:55, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Talk:List of state leaders in 2016#RfC: Inclusion of Palestine as a sub state of Israel

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:List of state leaders in 2016#RfC: Inclusion of Palestine as a sub state of Israel. Could you please give your opinion on whether or not Palestine should be considered a separate sovereign entity from Israel? Many thanks Spirit Ethanol (talk) 13:59, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Current to-do list?

I have been using the page Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine/to do to list pages which I think need creation or work that I haven't been able to immediately work on myself. Is this still a current page? I'm a little confused by the three different archived to-do lists. TrickyH (talk) 10:25, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Samaria discussion

I've started a discussion over at Category talk:Archaeological sites in Samaria#Naming convention - West Bank vs Samaria which might interest everyone. TrickyH (talk) 18:43, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

History template needs fixing.

Template:History of Palestine needs fixing, as the category is now a redlink, due to a recent move of the category to Category:History of Palestine (region). Not sure how to rectify this, sorry! TrickyH (talk) 15:03, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

Jewish cemetery, Gaza

Does anyone know if the ancient Jewish cemetery in Gaza still exists? Chesdovi (talk) 12:24, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Balady citron

A discussion is taking place at Talk:Balady citron regarding a possible page name change to "Palestinian citron". Comments most welcome! Chesdovi (talk) 13:41, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

Palestinian wine

User:TrickyH rated the Palestinian wine article as being of mid importance. I reverted, saying that at most of low importance. He, ignoring WP:BRD undid my revert. So I decided to ask for input from other editors here. I would like to add that much of the article is about Jewish winery in the region. Debresser (talk) 16:52, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

What difference does it make that "much of the article is about Jewish winery in the region"? Chesdovi (talk) 17:14, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

The relevant section of "Scope" on the project page includes: "History: A record of Palestine's history from before the Canaanites to modern Palestine", "Culture and Faith: The region's traditions, cuisine, embroidery, literature, art, sports and its history in cinema", and "Civilizations: A description and history of all the known ethnic groups and societies that ruled or lived in Palestine since ancient times and their traditions and contributions to both the region and the world." Wine has been made in the region of Palestine from ancient Canaanite and Israelite times to today, so it clearly falls within the scope of the project. I rated the page as mid importance since it's of historical significance, as well as an ongoing practice of the Israeli and Palestinian people, and it could use considerable contribution from the editors here to expand on that history as well as modern Palestinian winemaking. There's really no case to make that the page shouldn't be of mid importance. TrickyH (talk) 18:42, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Debresser, seriously, why do you care how the page is ranked for a frickin WikiProject? nableezy - 18:44, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Whilst Wikiproject importance levels are deeply subjective, I think this article's "mid-importance" is proven by (a) an embarrassing deletion discussion in February, and (b) the very existence of this thread. If it was genuinely unimportant, why would anyone care enough to start all these silly fights? Oncenawhile (talk) 20:52, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Again we Israelis stuck in the paradox of Jewish culture, and history under the name "Palestinian"... Anyway the article is mid-importance, you just proved it today by opening this discussion.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 21:13, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

According to the same circular logic, every item that someone marked important is important because someone bothered to mark it so. It won't do - the subject has to be important on its own, regardless of whom it interests.

While wine making has a long history in Palestine (region), is it a part of the Palestinian culture ? This article says the first Palestinian winery opened only a year ago. The article itself deals with ancient history and wine produced by Yishuv Jews. Does this wikiproject cover everything that happened in Israel ? “WarKosign ” 08:21, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

If the article makes that claim, it is clearly mistaken, and I would question its reliability. I remember visiting both the Cremisan and the Latrun wineries more than forty years ago. RolandR (talk) 11:40, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

(I assume) the article talks about "Palestinian" in the national sense, not the regional. Cermisan was built by Itlanian catholics of the Curch of Jesus the boy in 1883. The Latrun's monastery was established by French Trappists. So are those "Palestinians"? As far as I know, most national Christian Palestinians are Greek-Orthodox, those mainly lived here for centuries, unlike the Catholic volunteers who came here from Europe. They had winery. But this article mainly talks about yishuv winery until a certain point, when Palestine suddenly becomes the Palestinian Territories. By this way, we are implying that this is the national sense of "Palestine" and not the geographical. You really can't call Yishuv wine "Palestinian". It's just doesn't make sense that in 1948, suddenly the "Land of Palestine" turned into "Israel" and the "Palestinian Territories" (A later name to W.B. AND G.S.). "Palestinian", can only describe things that are related to Palestinians. No one goes and say "Pannonian wine" when talking about wine in Hungary or "Gaulian wine" when talking about French wine. The article about Palestinian wine should talk about Palestinians and not the region of Palestine. It is absurd to show Jews, Jews, Jews, Jews and then suddenly after 1948, it's now the Palestinian Territories only. This is misleading--Bolter21 (talk to me) 12:00, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Anyone brought up, like me, on kosher wine for Shabbat and Pesach meals, will recall (with delight or disgust, according to taste) the sickly-sweet Palwin No 10, still made and sold to British Jews by the Palestine Wine Company. Is this "Palestinian Wine"? RolandR (talk) 12:39, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

"Palestine Post" changed it's name to "Jerusalem Post". Is it "Palestinian"? The Palestine Electricity, Corporation Limited replaced the "Palestine" with "Israeli" when Israel was established, is it Palestinian?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 13:13, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

But Palwin has not changed its name. I don't know about elsewhere, but Jews in Britain still regularly mark Sabbath and Passover celebrations by drinking wine from the Palestine Wine Company. RolandR (talk) 11:28, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

So what does WikiProject Palestine deal with, Palestine (region) - in which case it should include everything covered by WikiProject Israel, or Palestinian people - in which case Palestinian wine is almost completely outside the scope of the project ? “WarKosign ” 13:45, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

If everyone were to read the "Scope" section of this project, that might help to answer some of these questions (the less rhetorical ones, at least). Particularly the parts I quoted directly above. Palestinian wine-making took place from Canaanite times until the modern wine-making industry in Cremisan, Latrun, settlements and inside Israel, all of which falls within our scope. This discussion reads like editors want to remove Project Palestine from this page all together, rather than the merits of mid importance. Let's have a look at WP:PALESTINE/A, which says of Low importance that: "Few readers outside the Palestine field or that are not adherents to it may be familiar with the subject matter." - doesn't seem like it's applicable to me.

I'm glad this discussion has gotten some attention; we can look at the lack of attention to the historically significant development of winemaking in Canaanite times, as well as the local traditions of Christian wine-making - having tasted a lot of home-made wine from the houses of Palestinian Christians, I can identify another gap in the article's coverage there as well. TrickyH (talk) 14:06, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

My point was, and remains, the importance of the Palestinian wine article for this project. According to the assessment table, "mid" importance is described as "The article covers a topic that has a strong but not vital role in the history of Palestine." That does not seem justified by the article at all, even if it were to be more complete. I think that the description of "low", quoted above, "Few readers outside the Palestine field or that are not adherents to it may be familiar with the subject matter.", fits perfectly. Debresser (talk) 14:21, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

So you don't think many readers are familiar with the fact that, in the Christian tradition, wine is drunk for Eucharist, as per the Last Supper? That original wine was Palestinian wine. It's mentioned in the article. Do you think Biblical events are irrelevant to this project? TrickyH (talk) 14:45, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Love it. You have no argument at all. That wine was simply wine. Ever hear the pastor say "Jesus drank Palestinian wine"? Unfortunately, most contributions to that article are of this quality. Debresser (talk) 15:28, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

So far Debresser (talk) is the only editor to make an arguments counter to the "Mid" rating, which has only been supported by editors from this project (asides about what is or isn't in our scope aside). Despite that he has once again reverted my edit rating the page. This runs counter to the Rating page, which states: Any member of WikiProject Palestine is free to add—or change—the rating of an article. Editors who are not participants in this project are also welcome to assess articles, but should defer to consensus within the project in case of procedural disputes.

I'd suggest you self-revert while we continue debating the quality rating. TrickyH (talk) 17:14, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Wine was produced in what is known today as Palestine (region) since Canaanite times, but it doesn't make it "Palestinian wine-making". In case you did not understand my position: since "Palestinian wine" (which should actually be called Land of Israel wine) has little to do with the project, clearly the article is at most of low importance for the project. I believe Bolter21 shares this opinion. “WarKosign ” 20:51, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Yeah I acually start to shift toward the "low importance". But I suggest a new discussion about the title, it's absurd.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 21:07, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

So it has been several days and it still seems there is no consensus for any particular importance rating. I still feel strongly that this article (especially with the historical sections that need expansion) should count it as Mid importance to this project, but honestly, it's purely an administrative function. Until we make a decision, this is the last C-quality page without an importance rating for this project. TrickyH (talk) 07:07, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

WP:CONACHIEVE has a few suggestions for you. “WarKosign ” 07:36, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

If the absence of an importance rating bothers you that much, you can add "low". If this discussion would show a consensus for "mid" at some time, contrary to the instructions at Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine/Assessment which clearly indicate this article is indeed of "low" importance, then it can be changed at any date in the future. Debresser (talk) 09:43, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

"Balfour Declaration"

The primary topic of "Balfour Declaration" is under discussion, see Talk:Balfour Declaration -- 70.51.45.100 (talk) 04:50, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Balfour Declaration 100 - a "thorough and representative survey of the relevant literature"?

I've opened a peer review here because I'd like to bring the article to Featured Article status prior to the 100th anniversary next year. By far the most challenging FA criteria is to ensure that the article represents a "thorough and representative survey of the relevant literature" (WP:FACR 1.c.), so this is the focus of the peer review.

Please could all editors who are familiar with the scholarship surrounding the Balfour Declaration kindly provide their input?

Oncenawhile (talk) 13:12, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

"Black September"

The usage and primary topic of Black September is under discussion, see talk:Black September in Jordan -- 70.51.200.96 (talk) 03:45, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Invitation to create a new article about current phase in the Gaza–Israel conflict

Here is the discussion: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel#Should we make an article about fighitngs in Gaza after the 2014 war?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 20:37, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

Notification

Please see an Rfc at Talk:Jerusalem#Is_Jerusalem_in_Israel_or_Palestine. Debresser (talk) 10:36, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Move discussion

Please see this move discussion, where I propose to move Ancient synagogues in Palestine to something like Ancient synagogues in Palestine (region). Debresser (talk) 18:53, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Please comment on a move discussion

Please comment on a move discussion at Talk:Ancient_synagogues_in_Palestine#Requested_move_15_June_2016, where I propose to move "Ancient synagogues in Palestine" to "Ancient synagogues in the Palestine region". Debresser (talk) 22:18, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

Should "Jewish nose" be moved to "Jewish nose stereotype"?

A suggestion has been made to change the title of Jewish nose to Jewish nose stereotype. One participant, after thoroughly losing the argument went, in opinion of some, on selective forum shopping. Therefore I am reposting his invitation where I think Jewish history took part as well. - üser:Altenmann >t 20:27, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Qays and Yaman discussion

There is currently a discussion regarding the name and perhaps scope of the Qays and Yaman tribes article. For those interested, your participation is welcome. Cheers --Al Ameer (talk) 21:50, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

Local elections

The State of Palestine is set to have local elections on 8 October 2016. In response, Palestine's left-wing parties have formed a new electoral alliance called the "Democratic Alliance" (not to be confused with the 1980s alliance of the same name. Why neither of these topics have articles is beyond me. I am requesting assistance in the creation of these articles. Numerous sources can be found on Google by typing in "Palestinian elections". Charles Essie (talk) 16:40, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

The Palestinian Authority*** (We have to solve this argument before it will be raised in an actual article).--Bolter21 (talk to me) 17:43, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

Which arguement? Charles Essie (talk) 15:28, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

There are sources such as this one that say there will be elections in Palestinian Authority. Most mention "Palestinian elections". Is there any source for elections in "State of Palestine" ? “WarKosign ” 06:48, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

The casual protocol that someone writes "State of Palestine" in an article and then 1RR makes it a permanent term whose removal is harder than pulling Excalibur out of the stone. The connection between sources and "State of Palestine" are usually coincidental.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 10:58, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

I"ve started an a stub article. Here: Palestinian local elections, 2016.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 12:32, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I'd also like to thank Soman for creating Democratic Alliance List. By the way, it looks like another coalition has been formed for the elections, the "National Democratic Coalition". Any chance that we could get an article for that one too? Charles Essie (talk) 18:04, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Many thanks, --Soman (talk) 16:19, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Articles about 1948 war

There's a discussion about three related articles about the 1948 war at WT:WikiProject Israel#1948 war articles. Please join the discussion. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 03:03, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Article Request: Palestinian Think Tank

I am wondering if anyone part of WikiProject Palestine would be interested in creating a new article for Al-Shabaka: The Palestinian Policy Network. Full disclosure: I work for the organisation, and have put in a request in Wiki's requested articles section. Al-Shabaka is the first global Palestinian think tank, a non-partisan, and non-profit organization whose mission is to educate and foster public debate on Palestinian human rights and self-determination within the framework of international law. Al-Shabaka's policy network includes over 100 experts from Palestine and across the Diaspora, including aNadia Hijab, Rashid Khalidi, Diana Buttu, Sam Bahour, Laila el-Haddad, and Samah Sabawi, amongst others. The organization likewise continues to rank as a "Best Think Tank Network" by the Global Go To Think Tank Index (GGTTI). Sources: 101, 102, 103.

Thanks for your help and suggestions! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Meganbdriscoll (talk • contribs) 20:27, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Theodor Herzl

Theodor Herzl is considered to be the father of modern Zionism. Many people studying the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will find themselves on his page in order to learn more about the conflict. I was one such individual. What did I find when I got there? Duplicate sections, massive blocks of quotes without any context or summation, a large section about his books inside of his death and burial section for some God forsaken reason, and little mention of his beliefs or ideas.

I think this is a very important article for this group. Particularly of interest are the inklings of nonaggression and peaceful coexistence with the Palestinian natives that I have gleamed he was a major proponent of. Of course, people are far less likely to know about this since they can't read about it on here. I believe spreading knowledge is the first step and we should make sure this information is available and there is a good article on Herzl for those interested.

I already started cleaning up the page, but I am a novice when it comes to Wikipedia editing and I am not sure on some good principles or formats that should be utilized in an attempt to make this a good article. I would appreciate some help at making a much better, unbiased, and informative page on him and for other pages in the future after that! I started a discussion on the talk page for the article to start things off that you can comment on to help!

Zanthos (talk) 08:04, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Palestine Exploration Quarterly

Hi! Does anyone know if Palestine Exploration Quarterly would be considered a major journal in the field of archaeology? It is peer reviewed but I personally would describe it as a minor journal. Gaia Octavia Agrippa ^Talk 22:45, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

It is probably the oldest still-running journal on Palestinian (now wider than Palestinian) archaeology and almost all the main relevant archaeologists send some of their papers there. So I would call it a major journal. Zero^talk 23:44, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Zero. Could you give some examples of this? Gaia Octavia Agrippa ^Talk 01:48, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

I agree with Zero. Much of what is considered core knowledge in the field of archaeology of Israel and Palestine was first published in the PEQ. In the context of the region it is certainly a major journal. Oncenawhile (talk) 07:58, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

You can view the Tables of Contents without paywall access. Start here. Zero^talk 08:13, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Up to date to-do list?

Would it be possible for us to have the "To Do" link redirect to an up-to-date to do list, such as in Wikipedia:WikiProject Israel/to do, rather than several archived pages? TrickyH (talk) 01:56, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Sure, but someone would need to keep it up to date. That didn't happen for many years on the old lists. I don't think the Israel list is kept up to date either. Oncenawhile (talk) 07:57, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Well, I'm happy to volunteer... although when I get busy I might not visit every day, I'm happy to take that on. TrickyH (talk) 21:34, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

It seems that the best starting place would be Portal:Palestine/Opentask. Oncenawhile (talk) 22:04, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

I've compiled the outstanding tasks from that list as well as the other two, and it's now the main page for to do. I'm sure lots more could be added, especially in the NPOV section, but what's there so far seems a good place to start...

aaand now that's led to a massive white space on the project page. Gah! TrickyH (talk) 01:52, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Should be noted that dozens of villages all across the West Bank and Gaza Strip are missing. Possibly more than 50.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 08:05, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Quite, but let it also be noted that there are even more villages which have not been expanded yet. (There are, e.g. still 151 Blofeld-stubs in the Template:Palestinian Arab villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus) I prefer to expand the articles on places which we already have got, first, Huldra (talk) 23:42, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Also, I see that under "Requests" we have red linked Qais (faction) and Yaman (faction) .....but we already have Qays–Yaman rivalry and Qays and Qahtan (Yaman). We need to decide what goes into where.Huldra (talk) 21:17, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

I think the problem is that there are not enough people working on those articles. In the current speed, it might take years to have a start/C-class article for each village, existing or not. I can personally only provide Hebrew information mainly from Mapa, Gazetellers and human rights groups that can be found on the internet.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 00:34, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

In response to Huldra's query about Qays and Yaman, I think there's more than enough information out there about the Qays-Yaman conflict in Palestine to warrant its own article. By that, I don't mean separate articles each of the two factions in Palestine, but a single article about the rivalry/conflict in Palestine that was loosely based on the medieval feud. The medieval feud should remain the focus of the current Qays–Yaman rivalry article. The feud in Ottoman Palestine had pretty much nothing to do with the older feud other than at the symbolical level.

As for the missing villages, maybe sometime soon (within a month perhaps) we could really make joint efforts in starting/expanding articles on the villages of the northern West Banks governorates. More resources are now available for this task including Zertal's Vols. 2 and 3. Unfortunately, ARIJ still hasn't uploaded its village profiles for the Jenin Governorate. There's still plenty of sources out there regardless. --Al Ameer (talk) 04:50, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Uhhh, about the missing villages; I would say there is absolutely NO hurry; there are several hundred stub-sized articles (including 151 Blofeld-stubs of the 1948-villages). I would really like to expand some more of those articles first.... Huldra (talk) 20:22, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

2016 Community Wishlist Survey Proposal to Revive Popular Pages

Greetings WikiProject Palestine/Archive 9 Members!

This is a one-time-only message to inform you about a technical proposal to revive your Popular Pages list in the 2016 Community Wishlist Survey that I think you may be interested in reviewing and perhaps even voting for:

Fix and improve Mr.Z-bot's popular pages report

If the above proposal gets in the Top 10 based on the votes, there is a high likelihood of this bot being restored so your project will again see monthly updates of popular pages.

Further, there are over 260 proposals in all to review and vote for, across many aspects of wikis.

Thank you for your consideration. Please note that voting for proposals continues through December 12, 2016.

Best regards, Stevietheman — Delivered: 18:05, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

OK, here is my canvassing: please, please, pleeeeeeeease vote for : Make hiding work correctly: this is actually a bug, reported nearly 10 years ago, which the !@#$%^^&%^%#$# WMF still has not fixed. Basically it is like this: if you opt out of seeing all bots on your "watch"-list, this bug hides any edits done just before the bot edited, too!!! So, say, a vandal can vandalise anything, but adding, say a "citation needed"-template (without a date) will get a bot very soon to add the date. That way you will never see the vandalism!! And for all of us with large "watch"-list, opting out of seeing bots is nearly a necessity......Please, please vote to get the !@#$%^^&%^%#$# WMF to fix this, Huldra (talk) 23:07, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Ramzi Maqdisi I am looking for some help in order to improve Ramzi Maqdisi's entry. Right now I am editing the page because I found some new references from important newspaper, but I do help to dealing with it.Parauleira (talk) 07:53, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Ramzi Maqdisi

I am looking for some help in order to improve Ramzi Maqdisi's entry. Right now I am editing the page because I found some new references from important newspapers, but I do need help to dealing with it. Please, check the draft I did submit with new references Draft:Ramzi_Maqdisi --Parauleira (talk) 10:14, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Article on every village in the West Bank.

Hello guys. I am about to join the army on the 21st of March, which from then I will probably spend 21 consecutive days in the desert, which means I am probably not going to be active on Wikipedia. So I thought that maybe I can set a project here, to create an article, even a stub, on every village in the West Bank. Currently, there are dozens of villages in the West Bank that have no articles. So why not create at least stubs for them? But the purpose is to have more than a stub. I tried to start doing that and the outcome was cooperation on the creation of the Beit Qad article, which is a decent article. This can also contribute to the WikiProject Asia/The 10,000 Challenge.

When creating a new article, make sure to post it in the WikiProject Asia/The 10,000 Challenge page, and to add it to the article of its governorate.

So here are all the villages that lack an article:

I will add the missing ones in Gaza later. Who joins?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 00:06, 3 March 2017 (UTC) I'am gonna tag a few people that might be interested: Huldra, Zero0000, Dr. Blofeld.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:53, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Bolter21 ok, I usually do no start articles.....as there is sooooooo much to do on the articles already made. Presently I'm adding Socin material, and I still have 50-100 villages left to do. Also, all the articles in bold at User:Huldra/HA are still not done. (But if someone else start an article, I will of course add to it.) Huldra (talk) 23:35, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

There you go: Arabbuna. Fresh from the oven. There are a few Huldra-sources I think need some attention. I am too tired at the moment to read French.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 23:46, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Important discussion

...now, on Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment, Huldra (talk) 09:33, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

Template:Israeli-Palestinian localities

This currently contains links to 98 different disambiguation pages, which is distinctly unhelpful to readers. Can anyone in this WikiProject help clear up the problem? Narky Blert (talk) 19:03, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

I'm on it. Documented at Template talk:Israeli-Palestinian localities. -- Deborahjay (talk) 12:59, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

BDS and antisemitism

Should Category:Antisemitism be applied to the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions article? Feel free to join the discussion. — MShabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 20:52, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Marwan Barghouti

Please join the discussion at Talk:Marwan Barghouti#breaking of fast about whether this material belongs in the article. Thank you. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 02:35, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

Popular pages report

We – Community Tech – are happy to announce that the Popular pages bot is back up-and-running (after a one year hiatus)! You're receiving this message because your WikiProject or task force is signed up to receive the popular pages report. Every month, Community Tech bot will post at Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine/Archive 9/Popular pages with a list of the most-viewed pages over the previous month that are within the scope of WikiProject Palestine.

We've made some enhancements to the original report. Here's what's new:

The pageview data includes both desktop and mobile data.
The report will include a link to the pageviews tool for each article, to dig deeper into any surprises or anomalies.
The report will include the total pageviews for the entire project (including redirects).

We're grateful to Mr.Z-man for his original Mr.Z-bot, and we wish his bot a happy robot retirement. Just as before, we hope the popular pages reports will aid you in understanding the reach of WikiProject Palestine, and what articles may be deserving of more attention. If you have any questions or concerns please contact us at m:User talk:Community Tech bot.

Warm regards, the Community Tech Team 17:16, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Merging energy article

Please have a look at my proposal at Talk:Energy_in_the_State_of_Palestine#Merge_with_Gaza_crisis. TrickyH (talk) 22:27, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

Balfour Declaration 100 - Featured Article Candidate

Three months to go until the centenary of the declaration. Per Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Balfour Declaration/archive1, this article has now been put up for a featured article review. Comments, suggestions, and help in responding to feedback, would all be appreciated.

If this WP:FAR is successful, I believe it will be the first Israel-Palestine related article to reach WP:FA status for more than seven years, with the previous one being SlimVirgin's nomination of the Muhammad al-Durrah incident in early 2010.

Onceinawhile (talk) 17:01, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Any further input here would be appreciated. Onceinawhile (talk) 10:50, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

Maiuma vs Port of Gaza

We basically have two articles about the same area, with a lot of overlapping info. How do we solve this? Please see Talk:Maiuma, Huldra (talk) 20:58, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

vprofile.arij.org

All the vprofile.arij.org profiles (used on the West Bank villages) have been gone for a couple of days....but are back today. I would advise everyone that when they use them, get a www.archive.org copy of them, and link to it. We never know when they will be gone for ever! Huldra (talk) 23:53, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

Ayn Ghazal and Al-Bassa

Does anyone have any idea why Ayn Ghazal and Al-Bassa have become so popular since June? Perhaps @Huldra: would be closest since she contributed most to the articles?

See [1], which shows that ever since 10/11 June the two articles started getting thousands of views per day. In the last couple of months they have had more views than Israel. This doesn't appear to be the case for any other articles - just these two. It is also only the English-language version of the articles getting the hits (see [2] and [3]).

Onceinawhile (talk) 22:08, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

Ayn Ghazal is easy, the Jordanian site has been in the news, as has a village near Mosul with the same name. We really should not use varient English translits without the country name.Icewhiz (talk) 22:21, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

I just googled for the news. It doesn't seem particularly high profile, and certainly not enough to sustain an average of 10,000 views/day for more than three months. Onceinawhile (talk) 22:31, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

Looking at WP:5000, there are four articles - 'Ain Ghazal, Ayn Ghazal, Al-Bassa and Al-Bassah - all of which are between #330-340 most popular articles in Wikipedia at the moment. Onceinawhile (talk) 22:36, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

Search for Ain Ghazal in the news, not ayn. The ayn wiki article is one of the first google hits when searching for ain. Of course it might be a bot gone wild... But the Jordanian site did generate headlines in a number of languages.Icewhiz (talk) 22:40, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

I did. I don't think it's that. See for example here - the two Bassa articles and the two Ghazal articles, together as a group of four, are following almost exactly the same trends: [4]. So the explanation would need to cover all four. Onceinawhile (talk) 22:42, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

The problem here is all the various possible arab translits. It is quite possible whomever is searching is using a different permutation, with no wiki article, and ending up here. Syria/Iraq is a possibility - there is an al bassah near deir a zor (not the one we have an article on) sround which there is some fighting.Icewhiz (talk) 22:46, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

Whaw, I had absolutely no idea. (I didn't even know about that tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews page). However, I have seen page views shoot to heaven before: I recall at the time of the Duma arson attack views of Duma, Nablus went sky high. And when Bernie Sanders revealed that he had spend time on kibbutz Sha'ar HaAmakim, views of that kibbutz article went sky high, too. When I google news about Al-Bassa, I get lots of hits on some footballer? Huldra (talk) 22:48, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

Hmm. Football, random villages in Syria/Iraq, Jordanian statues. None of it explains why the popularity of all four articles would sky rocket in exactly the same way at exactly the same time. Onceinawhile (talk) 22:51, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

No, it doesn't...sorry, but I am absolutely clueless here, Huldra (talk) 22:54, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

Me too! The theory that readers meant to get to another article seems off, since there are no other articles with names closely-related to these showing up anywhere in WP:5000 Onceinawhile (talk) 22:56, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

I agree the charts show quite a correlation, but it really just two, not four. My bet is that Bassa atleast is a different spelling from the two wiki articles. Syria/Iraq is not a bad direction to look at - similar names, shifting hot spots, lots of googles looking for town X when it becomes hot.Icewhiz (talk) 23:01, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

Search for sources and/or translate?

I was wondering if someone could search for sourcing for the article on Iqbal Mahmoud Al Assad. Long story short, one of my students created a duplicate article at Iqbal Al Asaad, which is currently up for deletion due to poor sourcing. I've let the AfD know that there's another, earlier article that is linked to the Arabic Wikipedia, which has more sourcing, but I don't know that they've really paid attention at all.

Can someone help search for sourcing and do some translating? If this is to be deleted then I'd prefer that it have more of a fighting chance. Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 01:32, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

We can't have two articles on the same subject. The correct procedure is to merge the new article into the old article. That means: (1) copy to the old article anything useful from the new article that the old article doesn't have; (2) delete the new article. It is not a good idea to ask for expansion of the new article unless you are planning to delete the old article. Zero^talk 02:11, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Better wording needed for Allenby Bridge article lead

Talk:Allenby Bridge#Lead section wording.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 13:27, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Your comments are welcome at a move discussion

Talk:State of Palestine#Requested move 23 October 2017 “WarKosign ” 06:23, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Merge discussion

Comments welcome at Talk:Kurds in Hebron.Icewhiz (talk) 14:45, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguation links on pages tagged by this wikiproject

Wikipedia has many thousands of wikilinks which point to disambiguation pages. It would be useful to readers if these links directed them to the specific pages of interest, rather than making them search through a list. Members of WikiProject Disambiguation have been working on this and the total number is now below 20,000 for the first time. Some of these links require specialist knowledge of the topics concerned and therefore it would be great if you could help in your area of expertise.

A list of the relevant links on pages which fall within the remit of this wikiproject can be found at http://69.142.160.183/~dispenser/cgi-bin/topic_points.py?banner=WikiProject_Palestine

Please take a few minutes to help make these more useful to our readers.— Rod ^talk 17:57, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

More views could be needed

..on the latest Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment, Huldra (talk) 20:30, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Jerusalem RfCs

Onceinawhile (talk) 07:42, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

RfC re 1948

Please see the RFC discussion at Talk:1948 Palestine war, the outcome of which may impact the name of 1947–48 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine and 1948 Arab–Israeli War as well. Onceinawhile (talk) 12:20, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Abd al-Ghani al-Maqdisi

Abd al-Ghani al-Maqdisi was reported to be born in the village of “Jummail in Palestine“. Has anyone any idea as to which village they refer to? Huldra (talk) 23:59, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

@Huldra: I tried tracking it down - but it seems to me this isn't properly sourced at all in the article it comes from - [5]. dewiki and arwiki has him born in a mountain village near Nablus - spelled differently. arwiki has him variously born near Jerusalem or in جماعيل near Nablus (which could be seen as near Jerusalem). جماعيل might very well be Jamma'in (which seems to record this variant spelling in our wiki article for the crusader period). Sourcing of his birth place in enwiki should be improved.Icewhiz (talk) 08:11, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

@Icewhiz: the German version is sourced to Yakuts Mu'jam al-Buldan, the Beirut 1956 edition. Unfortunately, the pages 159-160 are not part of the preview on archive. But all in all it points to Jamma'in, I agree. See also what ARIJ writes about the history. Huldra (talk) 20:37, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

Just got hold of

Drory, Joseph (1988). "Hanbalis of the Nablus Region in the Eleventh and Twelfth Centuries". Asian and African Studies. 22: 93–112.

where note 12, p. 95 make it clear that previous Jamma'il is present Jamma'in, Huldra (talk) 20:52, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Another useful article:

Talmon Heller, Daniella (1994). "Popular Hanbalite Islam in 12th-13th Century Jabal Nablus and Jabal Qasyūn". Studia Islamica. 79: 103–120.

...can be read online! Huldra (talk) 21:39, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

http://vprofile.arij.org/ hacked

Be careful accessing any of those pages: the front page say it is hacked. Most of the pages (if not all) should be at archive.org, let us try to use those, Huldra (talk) 21:11, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine classification in Australia

Hello! Could someone check this discussion? I posted it a couple of months ago, nobody replied and I still do not have extended confirmation on enwiki. Thank you! -MarioGom (talk) 00:35, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Embassies in Palestine

Zouaoui16 is creating a bunch of articles titled "Embassy of XXX in Palestine". I looked at one of them, Embassy of Germany in Palestine and it contains factual errors: far as I know (and also as indicated in our article, Germany never recognized Palestine and it therefore cannot have an embassy there, either. I don't have the time nor the inclination to follow this up, but perhaps some editors here can have a look at these articles. Thanks. --Randykitty (talk) 13:16, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

It is a representative office - [6] - which is much less than an embassy. Probably not notable.Icewhiz (talk) 13:31, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Embassy of Germany in Palestine.Icewhiz (talk) 13:52, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Anti-Arabism

I'm inviting the members of this project to weigh in on a row between me and User:יניב_הורון at the Anti-Arabism page. That user is removing reliably sourced content from The Guardian, the New York Times, and Haaretz, documenting anti-Arab discrimination in Israel under spurious reasons.Rafe87 (talk) 08:14, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Active RfC in article: List of modern names for biblical place names

I was unaware of the need to post in both "Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Palestine" and in Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel that there is an active discussion about "Neutrality" issues in a non-political article entitled List of modern names for biblical place names. See discussion on Talk-Page there.Davidbena (talk) 11:08, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Please participate in this Rfc

Please participate in an Rfc about the addition of multiple external links to the Applied Research Institute–Jerusalem website at Talk:Jabel_Mukaber#RFC. (Debresser put this notice up on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel a few days ago...but apparently forgot to place it here, too), Huldra (talk) 20:59, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Admit to my mistake, so let me copy my notice here now:

Please participate in an Rfc about the addition of multiple external links to the Applied Research Institute–Jerusalem website at Talk:Jabel_Mukaber#RFC. Debresser (talk) 15:10, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Talk:East Talpiot

East Talpiot is a Israeli settlement (=the view of the International community) which Israel wants to call "an Israeli neighbourhood", Please discuss at Talk:East Talpiot, Huldra (talk) 21:55, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

A Jerusalem neighborhood. Which it is. Debresser (talk) 15:10, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject collaboration notice from the Portals WikiProject

The reason I am contacting you is because there are one or more portals that fall under this subject, and the Portals WikiProject is currently undertaking a major drive to automate portals that may affect them.

Portals are being redesigned.

The new design features are being applied to existing portals.

At present, we are gearing up for a maintenance pass of portals in which the introduction section will be upgraded to no longer need a subpage. In place of static copied and pasted excerpts will be self-updating excerpts displayed through selective transclusion, using the template {{Transclude lead excerpt}}.

The discussion about this can be found here.

Maintainers of specific portals are encouraged to sign up as project members here, noting the portals they maintain, so that those portals are skipped by the maintenance pass. Currently, we are interested in upgrading neglected and abandoned portals. There will be opportunity for maintained portals to opt-in later, or the portal maintainers can handle upgrading (the portals they maintain) personally at any time.

Background

On April 8th, 2018, an RfC ("Request for comment") proposal was made to eliminate all portals and the portal namespace. On April 17th, the Portals WikiProject was rebooted to handle the revitalization of the portal system. On May 12th, the RfC was closed with the result to keep portals, by a margin of about 2 to 1 in favor of keeping portals.

There's an article in the current edition of the Signpost interviewing project members about the RfC and the Portals WikiProject.

Since the reboot, the Portals WikiProject has been busy building tools and components to upgrade portals.

So far, 84 editors have joined.

If you would like to keep abreast of what is happening with portals, see the newsletter archive.

If you have any questions about what is happening with portals or the Portals WikiProject, please post them on the WikiProject's talk page.

Thank you. — The Transhumanist 07:50, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Translation from French

Two articles needs to be translated from French:

Both authors are used (on Crusader stuff) on en.wp, Huldra (talk) 20:57, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Translation from German

One article needs to be translated from German:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Strehlke

He is used on Crusader related stuff on en.wp, Huldra (talk) 20:57, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Mosques in Jerusalem - sources?

There are very few articles on Jerusalem's Islamic buildings. List of mosques in Jerusalem is full of red links, most articles in the Arabic wikipedia list at template ar:قالب:البلدة القديمة في القدس have no English version, and numerous mosques with photos at commons:Category:Mosques in Jerusalem have no English article. The external website also Madain has a good list. Many of these represent Jerusalem's oldest surviving buildings and represent the different architectural phases in the city's development.

I spent some time trying to build articles on a couple of these, Ad-Disi mosque and Sidna Omar mosque, both significant landmarks with large minarets and numerous photos on commons. But I gave up after being unable to find good quality English WP:RS describing them.

Can anyone point me to sources which describe any these buildings?

Onceinawhile (talk) 19:54, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

User:Onceinawhile Yeah, ...and the situation isn't better for Hebron...I just discovered that the Sheikh Ali al-Bakka Mosque had its own article in ar.wp...with its own wikidata page. Anyway, the Hebron area is covered by the Sharon, 2013 book, alas,

Sharon, Moshe (2016). Corpus Inscriptionum Arabicarum Palaestinae, J (I). Vol. 6. BRILL. ISBN 90-04-32479-8.

covers everything, except Jerusalem. That was because Jerusalem was covered by Max van Berchem. I have linked his archive.org books to the Berchem article, but I haven't started "mining" the sources yet. (Leo Aryeh Mayer Saracenic Heraldry: A Survey also have loads of info...freely available) Huldra (talk) 23:55, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

I took a quick look at the SWP Jerusalem book, that is:

Warren, Charles; Conder, Claude Reignier (1884). The Survey of Western Palestine: Jerusalem. London: Committee of the Palestine Exploration Fund.

...I found precisely zero info on mosques. However, this lady:

Islamic Piety in Medieval Syria: Mosques, Cemeteries and Sermons under the Zangids and Ayyūbids (1146–1260) By DANIELLA TALMON-HELLER

...is far more interesting, alas, from the little I have read so far it is more about religious experience, not so much about the physical remains. Interesting as background reading, though! Huldra (talk) 23:03, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

archnet.org has some info (click on "sites"), Huldra (talk) 20:22, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks Huldra. This is superb, thank you. Berchem and Mayer look very useful. I looked at the archnet links; for most relevant mosques they source to: Burgoyne, Michel Hamilton (1987). Mamluk Jerusalem. British School of Archaeology in Jerusalem by World of Islam Festival Trust. ISBN 978-0-905035-33-8.

Onceinawhile (talk) 20:57, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

The least expensive version I could find (on abebooks) of the Burgoyne book, cost US$ 199.00 :( Huldra (talk) 21:01, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Another source used (eg for Madrasa al-Mawardiyya), is the 2 volume Ottoman Jerusalem: The Living City, 1517-1917, published in year 2000. No copies on amazon, the only one on abebooks is US$ 757.12. Sigh. User:Zero0000...these books wouldn't happen to be in a library close to you, would they? Huldra (talk) 21:38, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Great point Huldra, thank you. I have both volumes of this book. Bought them many years ago. Knew they’d come in handy one day! Onceinawhile (talk) 22:10, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

The Preface of the Ottoman Jerusalem volumes states that it is a sequel to Burgoyne’s Mamluk Jeruslem (note the same publishers). Onceinawhile (talk) 22:20, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

I don't have easy access to either of these. I can get read but not copy access to Burgoyne and I seem to have about 300 pages from Auld (which I'll send). Zero^talk 01:09, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Although this site has nothing to do with mosques, it does mention the public drinking fountains (Arabic: sabil) that were built in Jerusalem during the Ottoman period. You might have need for this: Ottoman Sabils of Jerusalem. Enjoy! Davidbena (talk) 04:44, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks User:Davidbena, excellent source! Some of these definitely needs their own article....eg Sabil al Nazir has its own commons cat, called Sabil Al-Haram. (I helped write Sabil Abu Nabbut years ago...fun times..) Also, that paper gives another potentially interesting source: Mehmet Tutuncu: Turkish Jerusalem, (1516-1917). Ottoman inscriptions from Jerusalem and other Palestinian cities. Does anyone have that book? Huldra (talk) 22:35, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Update the map in "Israel–Gaza barrier"

The map shown in the Israel–Gaza barrier article is from 2009. An updated one from 2012 is available that's much more detailed.

-- 95.90.216.153 (talk) 19:47, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

User:95.90.216.153 Agreed, and I have updated it. Thank you for noting this! Huldra (talk) 21:30, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Egyptian numbers

Various articles provide a supposed Egyptian number of (oddly specific) 270,245 or even 300,000, eg. Palestinian diaspora and Palestinians in Egypt – without a source. Google doesn't really turn up anything, and the main Palestinians article gives 70,000. So… rather incoherent.

-- 95.90.223.21 (talk) 01:22, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Also, a lot of the countries on the Palestinian page's infobox link to the Yemeni page rather their respective country's. The actual one for Egypt now gives a figure of 73,000. -- 95.90.223.21 (talk) 01:50, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Request for Comment - Including China's stance

Please join the discussion and give your needed opinion on whether to include China's stance in the article Hamas. Veritycheck✔️ (talk) 20:00, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Just a BUMP to get more input. Stop by and add your point of view. Veritycheck✔️ (talk) 03:17, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

RfC: Antisemitism in the UK Labour Party

Talk:Antisemitism in the UK Labour Party/Archive 7#RfC: Inclusion of expert opinions, views of pundits, activist groups, tweets, etc. may be of interest to board followers (message copied from WT:Israel for balance). Number 5 7 18:50, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Adding 1:20,000 scale maps of localities

I'm a part of the team working on the Palestine Open Maps project. We collected public domain archival maps of Palestine from various archives, and we put them in a single slippy map. Most relevant here are the 1:20,000 scale maps made in the late 30s and early 40s. I think it would be an interesting addition to add a map centred on each locality of the 500+ localities of Palestine pre-1948.

The maps that we have are georeferenced, and we have a set of localities as well, so it's reasonably easy to create a such an atlas using tools like QGIS, and add them to each article. Is this a good idea?

We're also working on the digitization of those maps (coming very soon!), so we can extract numbers such as the number of schools, places of warship, land use statistics, etc... But maybe that's more relevant to the Wikidata items for each of the localities.

Anyway, I'm very excited to contribute to this project. I'm still exploring, and I'll keep coming back as often as possible.

--Majdal.cc (talk) 20:32, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

This is a great idea. Many thanks for your work on this!

One of the most interesting things we can do with the old maps themselves is overlay them or place them alongside wikipedia’s modern maps of the same areas. That way, readers who live in or travel to those areas today can visualize the history in situ. Onceinawhile (talk) 09:26, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

I agree that this is great. I also agree with Once that maps which show the old and new in overlay would be the most useful. I've made a few such maps by hand File:DeganiaRegion.png File:Elyashiv1941.jpg File:TelKabriRegion.png File:ArtufHavtuv.png but it is very time-consuming. A more efficient method would be great. I'll also mention that NLI has scanned versions of the 1:20,000 maps made by Israel in the 1950s and these are very useful in tracking the changes made around then. Zero^talk 12:47, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

If the overlay isn't used by published sources, an overlay of our own manufacture would be WP:SYNTH (as well as possible OR regarding alignment/scaling - which can be quite tricky - features do change). The original 1930s-1940s maps, however, can be useful. Icewhiz (talk) 13:36, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

Here's an example of such a map, of Lubya. I wanted to upload the image to Wiki Commons but I couldn't figure out what license to use (it should be out of copyright, according to the OpenStreetMap wiki). --Majdal.cc (talk) 15:04, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

You can use {{PD-UKGov}} for maps made by the Survey of Palestine. I checked the UK copyright law on this quite carefully and there is no doubt about it. Zero^talk 01:29, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

That isnt true, see Wikipedia:No original research#Original images. If the map illustrates what sources say they may be used. nableezy - 17:05, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

Overlaying two maps is not SYNTH. It would only be SYNTH to draw conclusions that the maps themselves don't assert. It is similar to juxtaposition of text sources, like "In 1922 the population was 123 [source1] and in 1931 the population was 234 [source2]." As for alignment, for old maps the alignment can be an issue, but for official survey maps with grid lines alignment is very precise and requires no research whatever. If necessary (which is hardly ever), reliable sources for alignment are [7] for Survey of Palestine maps versus modern official Israeli maps and [8] for the PEF maps. Identification of locations on modern maps is much less error-prone than identification of locations mentioned in text sources. Zero^talk 01:53, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Years in the Israeli Civil Administration Area

Please see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 October 13#Years in the Israeli Civil Administration Area. Should the categories for 1967–1993 use "Israeli Military Governorate"/"Israeli Civil Administration area", "Palestinian territories", "Israeli-occupied territories", "occupied Palestinian territories", "occupied Arab territories" or something else? – Fayenatic London 08:20, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Enclave law (Israeli civil law in Israeli controlled portions of the West Bank)

Please could interested editors join the discussion here. The has been an attempt to undermine the article by removing all sources which do not include the specific terminology "enclave", despite the article being about the concept of Israeli civil law in Israeli controlled portions of the West Bank. There aren't enough involved editors to ensure a sensible discussion, so all input is appreciated. Onceinawhile (talk) 08:00, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Hey, I am looking at the discussion. It seems like I am having similar problems in the American Muslims for Palestine page. I don't want to question the sincerity of the editors there, and I do feel that the page is becoming an attack page against organizations doing Palestine advocacy. Gobulls (talk) 15:02, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

Can I have some help

I am on the American Muslims for Palestine page which has become a virtual attack page for an organization that does Palestine advocacy. The amount of vandalism that I see on the page is absurd. They are trying to accuse an organization has links to Muslim Brotherhood without any evidence or any credible sources. How do I get administrators involved? Gobulls (talk) 16:38, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, it seems bad. I'm busy editing other articles, but I can look at it when I have time. Remember that there is no reason to rush anything on Wikipedia because old edits are always saved in articles histories and no changes are ever definite. The users you are accusing of sockpuppetry have been around for years and are most definitely "real". Throwing accusations of sockpuppetry around is never a good idea. ImTheIP (talk) 15:24, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

That's a good point. Thanks for explaining. I removed the sockpuppetry part. I am still learning how Wikipedia works. Could you also see my talk page? I got a message saying I have to post a similar message on Project Israel page. Do I have to do that? I feel like I am being manipulated. Gobulls (talk) 15:56, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

Featured quality source review RFC

Editors in this WikiProject may be interested in the featured quality source review RFC that has been ongoing. It would change the featured article candidate process (FAC) so that source reviews would need to occur prior to any other reviews for FAC. Your comments are appreciated. --Izno Repeat (talk) 21:50, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for letting us know! Gobulls (talk) 15:52, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Name for the 2015-2016 "Knife Intifada"

May I please draw your attention to the article 2015–2016 wave of violence in Israeli-Palestinian conflict? The question under discussion [Talk:2015–2016_wave_of_violence_in_Israeli-Palestinian_conflict#Waves here] is whether the name "the Wave of Terror" is appropriate. The only source located so far is of dubious quality. If someone can locate a better source, and show that it doesn't suffer from Wikipedia-induced citogenesis, that would be very helpful. ImTheIP (talk) 20:08, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

North African Muslim migrations to the Holy Land

If anyone is aware of WP:RS which could be used to build out North African Muslim migrations to the Holy Land, please could you suggest them? I know this topic has been discussed in detail previously at other pages. Onceinawhile (talk) 20:42, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

RfC at Talk:Israeli occupation of the West Bank#RfC: Article size

The RfC at Talk:Israeli occupation of the West Bank#RfC: Article size may interest this community. Input welcome.Icewhiz (talk) 06:47, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Poll at BDS article

Talk:Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions#Poll. Please participate, if able. AppliedCharisma (talk) 14:33, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

RfC Notice

Input welcome at Merger discussion regarding Az-Zeeb and Achziv. Thanks. GenQuest ^{"Talk to Me"} 22:44, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

Template:Infobox former Arab villages in Palestine

As those of you who "watch" the 1948 villages will notice, the old green "Template:Infobox former Arab villages in Palestine" is being removed, and the standardised "settlement" template is introduces instead. That means that the colour change from green to blue. I have started a review here, Huldra (talk) 22:58, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

(IF there is a way to introduce another colour into the "settlement" template, then we could solve the issue that way, alas, I am no good at template editing.. ) Huldra (talk) 23:00, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Please see Template talk:Infobox settlement#Colour change. Huldra (talk) 23:20, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

articles on the occupation

Hello all. I had, for a long time, wanted to get a set of articles on the occupation of the West Bank going. With Nishidani's help we now have Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Israeli permit system in the West Bank. I was thinking of also creating Israeli expulsions of Palestinians from the West Bank (maybe need a better title), but what other subtopics do yall consider as meriting its own article? Our coverage of the occupation itself has been rather dreadful and Id like to rectify that. nableezy - 13:27, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

There is already an article on 1948 Palestinian exodus. No need for a POV fork. “WarKosign ” 18:35, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

Huh? Explusions from the West Bank (which means 1967+) are entirely separate from the events of 1948. Zero^talk 09:27, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

See 1967 Palestinian exodus. Icewhiz (talk) 13:09, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Also entirely different. nableezy - 03:11, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

RM discussion on Jericho (Tell es-Sultan)

Please comment: Talk:Tell es-Sultan.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 14:39, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

Dayr al-Qassi and other villages

Hello, I am translating into French some of your nice articles on Palestinian villages. I have found several mistakes in the reading of the sources. The last one is a bit problematic, it concerns Dayr al-Qassi and the numbers of Muslims and Christians in the village in 1945 have been exchanged wt to the source (1945 Statistics) (the source says 880 Christians, not 880 muslims). I cannot correct as I am not a "serious" contributor on Wp-en :). Of course, it may be that the source has a mistake, but then, another source would be useful. Thanks, --Cgolds (talk) 15:05, 18 June 2019 (UTC)