Talk:Allenby Bridge

Nuke claim

I have, for the second time, removed the following information from the article:

In October 2001, a Pakistani operative, with ties to Al Qaeda, was stopped by Israeli soldiers while carrying a device in his car and trying to cross the Allenby Bridge between Jordan and Israel. The device was transported to Dimona and examined at the Negev Nuclear Research Center. The bomb was the most sophisticated of all tactical nuclear weapons, a plutonium-implosion device developed by the KGB. This story failed to capture the attention of major media outlets in the U.S. [2]

I have removed this paragraph because it is obviously deranged, outrageous bullshit.

The "book" that this paragraph cites (which I have, regrettably, read in the course of my graduate work on the Middle East) is paranoid fantasy spun from whole cloth. Paul Williams, its author, has absolutely no background in the study of Islam or the Middle East, or even in any of the social sciences; his graduate degree is in Divinity. His book argued that al-Qaeda--working in conjunction with the President of Brazil, among other scary foreigners and minorities--had already planted half a dozen nuclear bombs in U.S. cities, and that a massive nuclear attack on the United States was imminent. (Recall that this was published in 2005.) He also spun incredible stories of Islamofascist military compounds sprinkled across the U.S. These and other fantasies were based on such impeccable sources as the "forgotten testimony" of the FBI's "confidential source" (suppressed, naturally, by the anti-American commies in the Bureau) and a slew of other anonymous sources that Williams clearly just made up.

Note that a lawsuit has forced the publisher of one of Williams' other books to concede the author made claims "without basis in fact." (Shocking, I know.)

I mean, look: the paragraph in question actually notes that "this story failed to capture the attention of major media outlets in the U.S." In other words, even the text in question admits that it's essentially unverifiable except insofar as Paul Williams says it happened--because it exists only as Paul Williams' ridiculous fantasy. 75.83.17.220 (talk) 00:55, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Infobox dates

The "Beginning date of construction 1918 / Completion date 1968 / Opening date 1994" text is pretty meaningless. The bridge has gone through several rounds of restoration or rebuilding (either rebuilding of the original span or an alternative span), but the current state of the infobox implies that it was 86 years between the time construction was started and the time that the ribbon was cut and the bridge formally opened... AnonMoos (talk) 12:04, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Illegal crossing sentence

I removed the sentence that editorializes on the "illegal" border crossings. It is an unsourced opinion that does not reflect a neutral point of view. Westeast (talk) 06:48, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

The change was reverted, but I have not seen any discussion on this. Can someone enlighten me on why my change was not justified? Westeast (talk) 08:27, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

I've marked the disputed sentence with a {{fact}} tag. Editors who want the sentence to remain are advised they should find a source to support the assertion. PhilKnight (talk) 16:14, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

It appears that Uttanu has declined to respond. I am inclined to revert his change. Any thoughts? Westeast (talk) 13:10, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Jordanian exit stamps, or lack thereof

My personal experience of this crossing is that, in addition to not issuing entry visas here, the Jordanians don't put exit stamps in passports here either (I have an entry stamp from Queen Alia International Airport and a standard Jordanian two-week tourist visa in my passport but no exit stamp, which would look awful suspicious to any Syrian or Lebanese customs official looking for evidence of a visit to Israel. So I just bit the bullet and let the Israelis stamp my passport at the other side, meaning I can't visit Syria or Lebanon on my current passport). Does anyone have anything on this besides personal experience? Daniel Case (talk) 17:39, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Ive crossed from Jordan to Israel here 3 times in the last year or so and have no exit stamps from Jordan. while you can get past the syria, lebanon problem by returning through the same border wither by obtaining a Jordan visa in Israel or returning before your original Jordan visa expires (as yoy cant get a jordan visa here), this type of stuff belongs on wikitravel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Swanson16 (talk • contribs) 14:19, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Five years plus later ... I think it is encylopedic information (phrased properly, of course), and I have found sources for it. So it's in. Daniel Case (talk) 16:01, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Palestinian authority

the Palestinian authority is not an independent state, and it does not control the alenby bridge, that bridge is held by Israel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.196.91.224 (talk) 02:47, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Mike's Place Link

I Have deleted the only link and therefore the section "see also". The link was to the 2003 terrorist attack at a Tel Aviv bar called Mike's place. The only connection is that apparently the two bombers crossed in to Israel at this border on their way from Britain but it is only mentioned in passing and adds no real information. There might as well be a link to the airline the bombers used to fly to Jordan or the bus line or car rental agency chose to make their way through Israel. It also adds nothing to this article as there is no reason given for the use of this border. The only way I see this as reasonable is if it had been a key aspect to the bombing but there is no information to suggest that their choice was based on anything more than the proximity of the border to the Queen Alia airport or simply a random decision. While perhaps some may find it a piece of mildly interesting trivia, the fact that the bombers crossed at this border remains on the page for the Mike's Place bombing. Therefore if someone is actually interested in reading about that terrorist attack all the information is available. Linking it on here is seemingly random and smacks of someone merely taking an opportunity to bring up Muslim extremism in even the most marginal situations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Swanson16 (talk • contribs) 14:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

West Bank in Israel

I think that where it says crosses the Jordan River, and connects the West Bank in Israel with Jordan. I think this should be changed due to the fact that the West Bank is seen internationally as belonging to no country and being an occupied territory, so I think it's wrong to say the West Bank is in Israel. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.108.31.215 (talk) 17:21, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

External links modified

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Lead section wording

The lead used to say the bridge is the only way for "West Bank Palestinians" to go "in and out of the region". It makes it sound as if it is the only way Palestinians can exit the West Bank, but this is not true. I've changed it to "traveling abroad" but I think better wording is still needed.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 13:21, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

What is the wording used by sources ? If there are no sources, perhaps this statement shouldn't be in the article (even if it's true) ? “WarKosign” 13:36, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Your wording is better, but it is also not entirely accurate. Technically West Bankers (excluding of course Jerusalem residents (as they are, of course, Israeli residents per Israeli law) who normally leave via Ben-Gurion) have been allowed in the past (pre-Intifada2), and in some limited present cases, to leave via Ben-Gurion. It is also possible to enter pre-1967 Israel legally via some 12 organized checkpoints (and illegally in several other locations). Transiting to Gaza is also possible (the converse - Gaza->West Bank - not so much, but relocation to Gaza is possible) and from there to exit to Egypt via Rafah Border Crossing when it is open (intermittently and for humanitarian reasons at the present). The restriction, I'll note, is more severe on the incoming side (i.e. residents of the area who attempt to enter via other border crossings into Israel will be denied as a matter of policy (unless pre-arranged, whereas the outgoing leg is actually more permissive). Also IIRC, Palestinians who hold a VIP pass have faced a more permissive regime in this regard. It is definitely the primary entry/exit point to the West Bank. Damia Bridge used to be open in the past - but it was closed following various troubles - the PA was involved in talks to reopen it, but if it probably would be mostly used for transiting to Jordan or Syria - if you want to transit Jordan via the Amman airport ([1]) - the Allenby bridge is the route that makes the most sense - in fact Israelis with dual citizenship who buy cheap(er) flights (particularly to eastern locations) via Amman - routinely use the crossing (which is closed to Israeli nationals - the only way to enter Jordan via the crossing is via using a non-Israeli passport (with possibly some exception for Umrah/Hajj travel of Muslims with Israeli citizenship (a class unto itself in terms of travel)).

Regarding sourcing - I'm sure there is plenty of polemic "siege sourcing" in this regard - the reality is somewhat more complex and would probably require stringing several sources together.Icewhiz (talk) 13:57, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

"Primary entry/exit point" sounds much more reasonable, assuming it is correct - are there statistics on number of Palestinians using this route vs number allowed to enter Israel (which is is also "abroad") ? “WarKosign” 14:06, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Many more enter/exit pre-1967 Israel - I don't have stats off-hand - but you have tens of thousands (and at times more than 100,000 - it fluctuates per Israeli policy and the security situation - you can see in Palestinian workers in Israel which is somewhat brief) legal workers with entry permits - who enter/exit either daily (illegals do it weekly) - that adds up to a huge amount of entry/exits per year (as you have to multiply the workers by some 200 work days). In addition you also have various non-work entry/exit for a wide variety of reasons. But ignoring special cases (VIPs?), temporary openings of Ben-Gurion, and the (admittedly mostly theoretical entry to Gaza and subsequent departure via Rafah) - they can't leave pre-1967 Israel via an international Israeli border crossing (illegal sailing from the coast is possible, not really done in significant numbers by Israelis or Palestinians). illegal entry/exit into pre-1967 Israel is harder to quantify - and is also a large phenomena (with daily / weekly entry/exits).Icewhiz (talk) 15:41, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

By the way, East Jerusalemites can pass through the bridge. I made some guard duty there in the last month and there are some 20-30 vans from an East Jerusalemite company carrying up to 10 people from East Jerusalem.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:07, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

non citizen EJs have it both ways in this regard. Israel treats them de jure as Israeli residents, whereas Jordan treats them as West Bankers (with some differentiation regarding DOB and Jordanian status which is the same for all West Bankers). The PA also treats them as its own. Arguably this status affords the greatest mobility currently possible in the former pre split mandate areas (which is part of the motivation, via family reunificatio, to achieve it). I do however think,but am not sure, that Jordan will refuse EJs entey (as other West Bankers IIRC) through the crossings near Beit Shaan and Eilat.Icewhiz (talk) 18:21, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

If more Palestinians exit West Bank via crossings to Israel, then saying that Allenby Bridge is the primary exit/entry point is simply incorrect. Israel is also "abroad" from PT. Perhaps a simple clarification, such as "Primary entry/exit point (to destinations other than Israel)" can fix it.“WarKosign” 20:46, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Name change to "King Hussein (Allenby) Bridge" suggestion

I keep seeing that this bridge is referred to officially as the "King Hussein (Allenby)" Bridge. I don't understand why it's the opposite on this page and its other-language (except Arabic) counterparts. Should the official title not be upheld? That's the case on other pages, right? The same order is even upheld in the Hebrew language signs next to it. It seems like Wikipedia and Google seem to keep this order exclusively, save from some individuals in a few travel blogs and whatnot. Nothing against the Brits or The Viscount,but it just seems odd.

180app (talk) 21:40, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia goes by "Common name", not the theoretically most correct name. It's usually referred to as the Allenby Bridge in English-language news reports, as far as I know... AnonMoos (talk) 10:41, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

"Daily Traffic" 1.2 million people and 12,000 trucks? Really?

Is 1.2 million persons and 12,000 trucks really the "Daily Traffic" as said, or is this the yearly traffic? -- 194.39.218.10 (talk) 12:28, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

Right, the word "daily" is added by the template and can't be removed I think. I divided the numbers by 365, but it needs to be brought up to date and given a source. Zero^talk 12:42, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

Ottoman

Do we not have pictures of the Ottoman bridge, i.e. prior to Allenby's structure of 1918? Or was Allenby's structure built after the 1927 earthquake destroyed the 1918-1927 one? Makeandtoss (talk) 20:39, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

It's not too close to any holy site, and was not on any kind of border until Winston Churchill separated Palestine and Transjordan in the early 1920s, so I'm not sure how important it would have been in Ottoman times... AnonMoos (talk) 13:36, 16 September 2024 (UTC)