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Three paramilitary soldiers of the Pakistani Armed Forces are killed and three wounded when NATO helicopters strike a border checkpoint in the Kurram Agency tribal area. Pakistan responds by closing an important supply route that runs through its territory. Interior Minister Rehman Malik announces a high-level meeting to discuss NATO violations of Pakistani sovereignty. (Bernama via Malaysian Digest)
An explosion rocks Taliban birthplace Kandahar in southern Afghanistan on Thursday, wounding eight people. (Xinhua)
Two policemen and a civilian are killed and four others wounded in a failed bank robbery in southern Baghdad. (Xinhua)
China and the United States officially resume military ties after a 10-month break following US arms sales to Taiwan, with the two countries emphasizing the importance of a close military dialogue. The two countries will also confer on maritime issues next month.(Business Week)(BBC)
Three Japanese employees of Fujita Corporation detained by China for allegedly intruding in a restricted area in Hebei Province are released while a fourth remains in custody. (Reuters)
This got picked up on the AP newswire and has run in over 100 media outlets now. The "Free Carlos Celdran" facebook fan page picked up 25,000 fans in 48 hours. This story is on the front page of WikiNews. Let's show that non-violent news is just as newsworthy. ɳorɑfʈ Talk!06:35, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There are more popular news in the Philippines actually; college basketball has ended and that had 10 times as much Google News hits the past week. It'll be absolute silliness if this gets to be added and other more popular news in the home country won't. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 08:34, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
But the criteria isn't "Only the most popular story from a particular country is added." Besides, I just searched for "philippines basketball" and came back with about 80 hits. If you search for "Carlos Celdran" you come back with over 130. Xinhua just did a story about him, too. They reported the government has offered him protection after the death threats he's received. Basketball is over and fading. The Catholic Church showdown with the government over the RH bill is heating up and getting bigger, and Carlos Celdran is the face of Church opposition. I think this article is current and deserves as spot at ITN. ɳorɑfʈ Talk!14:42, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
They have the president detained in an hospital surrounded by mutineers and without permission to leave the facility, how that will be called if he would be an european president ? --Jor70 (talk) 22:27, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Wait for now. The article isn't good enough to feature yet, and, as mentioned above, "coup" seems to be hyperbole. Let's see how this plays in the world's media tomorrow and put it up if it gets a lot of attention. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:56, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know about you, but personally I don't follow Latin American politics enough to determine whether this is a big deal or a run of the mill event. That's why I'm content to get the media's take on it. In addition, an event heavily covered in the media will be more likely to draw editors to improve the Wikipedia article. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:03, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support - We're talking about the police and military taking hostage attacking the president of their country. Xavexgoem (talk) 23:01, 30 September 2010 (UTC) struck because the article says he was taking hostage.[reply]
[1]. It hit Iran initially, it possibly affected an Indian satellite, and a few other countries including Indonesia. Now it is invading China. Weather the origin is known, or its intent is known or not, this work has humongous consequences not to be mentioned on ITN. Nergaal (talk) 18:09, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Suggest a good blurb please. By the way, no "possibly" or "maybe" allowed - we only state confirmed facts. The China part has been reported by its state-run news agency, so it should be fine as long as the article is updated accordingly. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:32, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I know that the main argument against is the old standard, "Too American, Too Americo-centric". Yes, maybe... But the man was a legend in his field and produced movies that became syndicated all over the world. He was certainly well respected in his field and recognized as such. link: [3] (CNN.com) Cheers! Cwill151 (talk) 14:23, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
oppose The actually I am using the google test on this guy. If I have to google or go to his article on here to determine who he is then probably he is not ITN worthy. If i go to his article and none of his movies jump out as culturally Iconic then again probably not ITN worthy. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 15:26, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support - "I've not heard of him" is not a valid argument against inclusion (As I always say, apply the Tim Berners Lee test - most won't know him by name but his contribution to modern technology cannot be doubted). Regarding the nom, I would argue many of his films are well known (Some Like it Hot, The Great Race, Spartacus etc). I would certainly put him in the same bracket as Jack Lemmon for how well he was known, even if he maybe he wasn't as good an actor. --Daviessimo (talk) 17:01, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Inclusion for Wikipedia you are right; ITN how ever when we talk has high threshold of inclusion on the template its not a valid argument it is however a barometer of the individual's notability for inclusion. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 19:29, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Limited Support: first death proposal since Eugène Terre'Blanche where I would have assumed that a vast majority of contributors would know the person almost instantly, but I'm not totally convinced that he was a big player, rather than simply to have been associated with big films. Kevin McE (talk) 17:08, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support. The death is getting a lot of coverage on media worldwide, and the article is in a reasonable state (ie, it tells readers something more than the simple fact that is reported on ITN, which is not always the case for stories that get posted). I think we should have more obituaries on ITN, not fewer, so I don't accept the arguments that Curtis was "not iconic" or "not notable enough". Physchim62(talk)18:21, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Question, Since when does the death itself have to be considered "notable", that's not written anywhere in the criteria and it doesn't even make sense. For a person to have had a career which would be considered notable per ITN standards they must have been "distinguished in their field and recognized as such". How would this be possible unless the person in question had an exemplary and long career, with certain rare exceptions, and if they must have had a long career then their death as a result of natural causes should come as a function of their life spent becoming ITN worthy, not as a criteria for notability... Right? Otherwise the only worthy obits on ITN would be James Dean, Kurt Cobain, Jimi Hendrix, etc.Cwill151 (talk) 23:35, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Its a balancing act, This guy was notable thus we have a wikipedia article. As far as ITN Deaths While it asks that it only need one to be nominated most editors would like to see meet two or three of those Criteria to be posted. Its not all that clear from some arguments that he meets even the one. it could be argued that an American Actor lacking an Oscar is not recognized as "important figure in their field of expertise," The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 23:49, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
As per below, it's a fair argument to say that his notability must be of substantial importance to make it on ITN, but it's not to argue that his perceived lack of notability comes from his lack of an Oscar. I mean, while the Oscars are a fairly good litmus test as to the recognition of actors, it is not by any means absolute. Many, many scientists and physicians who have contributed greatly to their fields and have produced some of the most astounding discoveries in human history have gone their whole careers without even so much as a nomination for a Nobel Prize, and then out-of-the-blue Obama wins without having given anything to the field of "peace". Awards of that sort should not be absolute criteria for ITN or consensus-based notability. Cwill151 (talk) 01:37, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
We've gone back and forth on deaths. Once, there were hardly any deaths on ITN -- even James Brown didn't get on. Now we've sort of swung the other way. We have to remember that important people die every day -- see the obituaries in The New York Times or Times of London. If we're not careful, we could wind up with deaths on ITN all the time. That's why I'm of the belief that people who die normally (e.g., of a heart attack at 85) should have to be exceptionally notable: Michael Gorbechev, Elizabeth Taylor, Chuck Berry, but not Gennady Yanayev, Abe Vigoda or Paul Anka. Where does Tony Curtis lie on that spectrum? I understand he was a very famous actor, but personally, I don't think he rises to the level required. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:28, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support - Clearly a huge film star which clears the threshold for deaths on ITN by a comfortable margin. He has been out of the media limelight for more than a decade, but that does not change his stature. __meco (talk) 17:15, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Although 'I've not heard of him' isn't a valid reason, the fact that about half the contributors here (including myself) have not seems relevant. The mainstream media has almost ignored his death (at least here in the UK), what coverage there is has been low-key and none I've seen has described him as anything more than one of many actors from that era; he's certainly not being described as 'legendary'. I don't see how this (certainly notable) actor meets the death criteria. Modest Geniustalk17:39, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Well I live in the UK as well and this morning almost all papers had some form of tribute to him. Most major British news sources have devoted a fair amount of coverage (here's an example of one of the many obituaries for him, this one from the BBC [4]). The Guardian has a devoted subsection for him on their website [5] and even the UK tabloids have plenty of articles The MirrorDaily Star. A quick search of Google News shows his death has been reported around the world... --Daviessimo (talk) 20:22, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Scientists have found a planet similar to ours in size and distance from the sun. High probability of liquid water. As we all know liquid water invariably = life. This is a link to where I saw it. I can write an article or someone else can. Not sure what they're calling this planet but I can find it out. We even possibly have an image (first image on Goldilocks planet). Cheers, Mr. R00tTalk01:58, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
when C was discovered it was thought to be just inside of the habitable zone; when D was discovered, it was thought to be just outside the zone; G, discovered just now, is exactly between the two.
Hold on. It's a no-brainer if it's confirmed, but scientific discoveries on ITN require an article in a peer-reviewed journal, not just a press release. By it's very nature, Wikipedia tries to have higher standards of verifiability that the general media, as we serve a different purpose. Physchim62(talk)02:34, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose. There are too many unanswered questions about the planet, and the existence of liquid water is some kind of speculation, yet not proved. Indeed, it's a significant report, but based on a mystery. The outcome of the study of the planet won't be released in recent time, so it shouldn't be posted until then.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 12:03, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
No scientist has claimed that there is actually water there - they've just said that conditions appear to be right for it. Some of the more overblown media reports have done though, which is completely wrong of them. Modest Geniustalk14:58, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support. The article Gliese 581 g is adequately updated, although a little more attention on it wouldn't go amiss. The story has made newspapers around the world, and our readers tend to like space stories (judging by the click-through stats). Physchim62(talk)13:44, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Derogatory? Whatever you feel, you're entitled to your opinions... But let's not forget that this is the science that gave us the "Big Bang", so I suspect that "Goldilocks planet" is here to stay (and NASA seem happy enough with it). Physchim62(talk)16:01, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Not to mention quarks. Three quarks for Muster Mark! Goldilocks Planet is actually a very nice name, since the intended meaning is so obvious. Oh, and support; it is not yet peer-reviewed, but has attracted enough attention in the "real" news for us to mention it ITN. Thue | talk18:26, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It's on the same level as 'God particle' - used all the time in media reports and sometimes in outreach activities, but never in the scientific literature. We shouldn't be using folksy names when a perfectly good term already exists and is wider usage. Oh and it HAS been peer reviewed, accepted by ApJ. Modest Geniustalk16:06, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose We have been told at various times that Gliese 581 d and 70 Virginis b are also habitable, so it is by no means the first such claim, and it has not yet been subjected to the levels of scrutiny that lead to the retraction of those claims. The gap between potentially habitable, if other life forms have the same climactic requirements as the life form we know, and possibly inhabited is unspeakably large. Kevin McE (talk) 15:41, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
those were at the edges of habitable zone one too hot one too cold. this one is right in the middle. that distinction makes this one lot more interesting. -- Ashish-g5518:13, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Per Kevin McE and usage of terms like "high probability." A little too much speculation for something that could potentially occur many times throughout other parts of the universe. SpencerT♦C01:07, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Just a comment on the questions about Gliese 581d: that planet is located just outside the HZ, so could host liquid water, but only if it has a runaway greenhouse effect. That's purely speculation. On the other hand Gliese 581g is located slap bang in the middle of the HZ, so it can host liquid water whatever its atmosphere is doing. Oof course that doesn't mean it actually DOES have any water, it might be as dry as the Moon. But that's beside the point. Modest Geniustalk16:12, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Well baseball cricket etc are sports where pure strength is not the only thing, whereas in cycling, physiology is mostly everything except on moutain descents or cobblestones where you can crash YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 09:35, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support: SpanishcyclistAlberto Contador is suspended following detection of clenbuterol in a sample taken during the 2010 Tour de France, which he won The rider who won the last 5 Grand Tours that he started has been suspended, and unless he gets a reversal of the decision, the sport's top man is out for at least two years. This is bigger than Landis' failure, which we reported. As the positive test occured during the Tour de France, the precedent from 2006 is that the result (an ITN/R matter) would be reversed: he is by no means "just some sportsman" in Europe. I'd far rather be arguing for inclusion of the current UCI World Championships results... Kevin McE (talk) 06:23, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support. Comparisons with members in team sports aren't equivalent, as the 50 game ban for Manny Ramirez indicates. -Halo (talk) 10:02, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support. There are plenty of such reports, so it's impossible to post all of them. However, this is a very important one. I don't agree with DC, who mentioned "locally known" athletes tested positive, which is pretty false here.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:13, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Cyclists are drug users? Who'dathought it? Describing this as a 'mid-level' sport in some countries, while ITN pretends things like Darts and Snooker just don't exist, has got to be a joke surely. MickMacNee (talk) 13:08, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The WPBSA call it snooker, and it's played in and by more countries than college football or ladies baseball or whatever other crap you get on cable TV in the Phillipines. MickMacNee (talk) 13:19, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
We'd sure get the Arsenal-Chelsea game this weekend. w00t. (And yes, pool, the one with striped balls, has to be played in more countries than snooker.)
Support IF it has consequences...depending on whether or not something actually happens because of this discovery (or has it already?), I would support. Ks0stm(T•C•G)14:03, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Something has happened: he has been suspended hours before the World Time trial championship took place, and 3 days before the World Road Race championship takes place. It so happens that he had finished his season anyway, and wasn't named for those events, but the "standard" suspension is two years, although that has not been confirmed in this case. Kevin McE (talk) 15:17, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Administrator noteGetting down to brass tacks, the update is four sentences long, with two citations, both of which are bare URL's. This needs work/expansion/more sources before going up, which it has support to do. Courcelles21:15, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Not at all. We try to have some semblance of geographical diversity in the medium-to-long term, but it's impossible to make ITN geographically diverse every day of the year. Physchim62(talk)13:38, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Its a court case over whether the destruction of a mosque in India by extremist Hindus is acceptable. This is an extremely important court case for India. (Thus Strong support). -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:06, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It's a dispute that's been going on for four hundred years, which caused globally reported riots in 1992 that killed thousands of people, and the verdict has led to 200,000 police officiers being deployed across northern India to try to prevent clashes (BBC News). I can only assume that Nergaal simply hasn't read the article. Physchim62(talk)18:16, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I understand that. But we don't put up articles without updates. The only update in the article is the entry in the table. Without a section on reaction, an uninformed reader (like me) does not understand the significance of this event; therefore why put it in the ITN if readers "won't get it"? Nergaal (talk) 19:49, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support'. Although India is no stranger to ethic violence and very divisive and religious tensions and therefore not remarkable, this pogrom was particularly vicious even by Indian standards leading to death to thousands and thousands of mainly Muslims. It is also particularly galling that it seemed unprovoked and was state sponsored with many elected politicians linked to the destruction. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.65.22.206 (talk) 23:21, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
@Neergal: you are right that the article needs substantial update. The section Ayodhya debate#The title cases was updated before the nomination, however we probably didn't do enough to highlight it in the article. Presently, there is an update in the lead paragraph itself. SPattalk00:57, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Spanish workers stage the country's first general strike since 2002. Transport operates at below normal levels, TV and newspapers are reduced and picketers deliver pamphlets to offices in Madrid explaining their position. (The News Tribune)[permanent dead link]
Thousands of people converge outside government headquarters in Warsaw under the slogan "No to cuts, yes to development". (The Sydney Morning Herald)
Weak oppose. If I had to choose one story of long-term interest from Europe today, this one wouldn't be it. The marches in Brussels were only about 50,000 strong (half of what was expected); the general strike in Spain (where I live) was calmer than expected (general strikes here can get quite violent, so a huge national sigh of relief on that one). The last time I nominated a protest for ITN, it was a march of a million people: maybe my own political views are colouring my judgment, but these protests just seem run-of-the-mill in comparison. Physchim62(talk)01:08, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Since this is not a single protest, but massive protests involving people of most of the countries of the EU, the numerical comparisons are needless. A million people protesting in only one city is not comparable with even few thousands widely scattered in many cities. The matter receives attention, because of its massive reception, not because of the number of people involved in it.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:04, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I doubt we would put the new head of Major League Baseball or FIFA or the IOC on here. We're definitely not putting the head of chess. --Smashvilletalk21:26, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. not notable IMHO. The competition itself wasn't particularly notable, and air–sea searches are fairly regular occurances at this time of year in the Mediterranean/Adriatic. Physchim62(talk)16:40, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support: I'm in favour of government changes/national elections for allsovereign nations. The inclusion of such stories, rather than ITN simply being a rehash of the front page of my newspaper, is what makes ITN interesting. Kevin McE (talk) 06:42, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support: It's getting significant coverage in Australia and New Zealand. It's also prescribed in WP:ITN/R, which states that changes to heads of state and/or government in any item on our list of sovereign states is deemed noteworthy. Arbitrary exclusions based on population size is illogical and impractical. Nightw08:03, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support population 12,000 or 12,000,000 it's still a country, and they just elected their leader. That's worthy, in my opinion. Ks0stm(T•C•G)15:21, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support - There is no hard and fast rule here, only people attempting to maintain a degree of neutrality and fairness when dealing with topics (in this case politics), which are always going to be subject to systemic biases. At the end of the day, Tuvalu is a sovereign state just like the US, India or South Africa. Its also worth bearing in mind that, it is the very fact that we post items such as this, that sets us apart from common media sources or other encyclopaedias. If someone isn't interested in the item they don't have to click the link... --Daviessimo (talk) 15:53, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
And there's plenty of consensus to post, as well. You are the only one actively posting this item, and consensus in a general sense is that all sovereign nations go up if the article gets updated. Courcelles16:26, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
"Items which are listed on this page are considered to have already satisfied the 'importance' criterion for inclusion on ITN, every time they occur." is what it says on ITN/R. nowhere does it say that we need to discuss ITN/R items and build consensus each time we post them. IMO consensus already exists for posting these items. why have an ITN/R if we are going to debate these items endlessly every time ??--Wikireader41 (talk) 18:31, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
maybe. we should take that discussion to the relevant talk page. maybe we should have a minimum population criteria for countries whose elections we post. maybe we can extend this and say that the number of items in ITN from a country has to be in proportion to the countries population.--Wikireader41 (talk) 18:46, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support for what it is worth. Whether people like it or not, this was the election of a head of government for a sovereign country. Saying it is too small for ITN is not a meaningful argument. The size of a country should not matter, otherwise we should fill ITN full of news from China and India. --PlasmaTwa222:51, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose. It's ridiculous to say the size of the country shouldn't have any bearing on the decision. Quite simply, all other things being equal, an election in a country of 10,000 people is far less important and newsworthy than an election in a country of 100 million people. In addition, I'm pretty sure there is little reader interest in this subject, and the ITN criteria say items should be "of wide interest to the encyclopedia's readers." (Unfortunately, the Wikipedia page hits counter is down, but I bet Maatia Toafa had far fewer hits in the past few weeks than did Ed Miliband.) I note how Toafa got a total of 531 votes in his constituency! -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:40, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
support all items in ITN/R have previously been discussed hence they have consensus. if there needs to be an exception made for this item then that should be taken care of separately and perhaps next time this will not have automatic consensus. and mwalcoff keeps stating the same line out of context (since its half the line) every other day which cannot be used to support or oppose anything. -- Ashish-g5500:38, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
How am I stating anything out of context? The first sentence of WP:ITN says, "The In the news (ITN) section on the Main Page serves to showcase articles that have been substantially updated to reflect recent or current events of wide interest to the encyclopaedia's readers." Ergo, ITN articles are supposed to be of wide interest to the encyclopedia's readers. I've never said that's the only criterion. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:45, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
@Ashishg55: When you say " if there needs to be an exception made for this item then that should be taken care of separately and perhaps next time this will not have automatic consensus" you do realize there was no consensus to post it this time~DCWe Can Work It Out03:29, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose- while it is interesting for trivia it really isn't very significant in the large scale of things. While it is nice to know about stuff like this, how many people coming to the English Wikipedia have even heard of Tuvalu or the Tuvaluan people? The only reason I had ever heard of them was because I did a school project on WWII and it mentioned something about the area. Mr. R00tTalk03:44, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting support. The election of a head of government of a sovereign country is a significant event on a regional or international level, even when that country has a small population. I think that the "population=importance" argument, while not entirely inaccurate, oversimplifies matters: a country with a relatively small population (e.g. Israel, pop. 7.5 million) can have a large international presence, and a country with a large population (e.g. Democratic Republic of the Congo, pop. 71 million) can have a relatively limited international presence. In terms of regionally- or internationally-significant news, what happens can be just as or more important than where it happens. In this context, the election of a head of government is a high-importance event, even when it takes place in Tuvalu. -- Black Falcon(talk)05:12, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
And the DRC is 10x more populous than Israel, yet that doesn't translate to it being 10x more prominent in global affairs. My point was that population is not the only or primary factor that determines the international presence or significance of a country, and countries should not be excluded from ITN merely on the basis of population. -- Black Falcon(talk)23:08, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment this was on NPR the other day. the problem is that the states have written protocols they follow which don't allow substitution of the drug with something similar. Midazolam or Propofol would work just as well and are much more commonly used (medically) as compared to good old thiopentone.--Wikireader41 (talk) 01:54, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose if this was a supreme court decision I'd strongly consider supporting, but as its just a technicality I don't think its interesting enough. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 06:45, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - presumably they're getting executed anyway. It's like saying an election's being postponed because a candidate's died, or something. f o x11:22, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Claims of foiled terrorist plots just don't seem like ITN material to me. We usually require something to have happened (and drone attacks in Pakistan are hardly news these days). Plus my anarchistic tendency makes me feel that this is just so much propaganda for the European security agencies, who make their money by scaring people about "terror plots". Physchim62(talk)01:15, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment well there has been an unprecedented increase in drone strikes and September has seen most strikes ever since the attacks started in 2004. I think we now have an answer why. we regularly post terrorist attacks which are successful. Why not give some credit to agencies who work hard to keep us safe but only get noticed when they fail. If it is propaganda why now ??--Wikireader41 (talk) 01:33, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The 'Pak intelligence' link is nothing but a normal, nothing-out-of-the-ordinary intelligentsia report. Even the country's army dismissed the claim as 'speculative.' Mar4d (talk) 05:58, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Three al-Quds Brigades militants are killed by an Israeli airstrike. The Israeli army claims they were preparing to fire into Israel. (Ynetnews)
A U.S. service member is in custody in connection with the shooting deaths of two other service members and the injury of a third in Iraq. They were assigned to 3rd Infantry Division, Fort Stewart, Georgia. (CNN)
Hisham Talaat Moustafa, an Egyptian millionaire who had been sentenced to death in 2009 for inciting the murder of pop star Suzanne Tamim, is sentenced to 15 years' imprisonment in a retrial. (AP)
Support. I wasn't sure if this was ITN-worthy when I heard the news yesterday, but it was on the front page of today's New York Times and Wall Street Journal. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:54, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I was considering nominating this myself, but I was just waiting for something to actually happen, rather than the speculation that been flying around. The party posts which he has now been awarded (see BBC News) clinch it for me. Physchim62(talk)00:38, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose until he actually takes over. If and when Kim Jong-il hands over the reins of power, we can post then. Internal politicking to set up his son as heir is not sufficient. Modest Geniustalk00:58, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Events like this happen only once; besides, the Party Conference of the KWP has not convened for 44 years. When Jong-un takes over, the focus will be the elder Kim dying, not the younger one taking over. Decisions like this are extremely rare and not just "internal politicking" - it has great international significance and long-lasting impact. In addition, I would argue that this story is much higher in significance and has received much more international coverage than Luzhkov, Yanayev, Typhoon Fanapi, Kosmoceratops, and The King's Speech. The only one that could perhaps compete on significance is that Italian money-laundering scandal. Colipon+(Talk) 01:19, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Oppose per Modest genius. as YM points out these kind of things are not unusual or notable in that part of the world. Who else did you think would succeed in North Korea? --Wikireader41 (talk) 01:04, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
that must have been a difficult choice. picking his younger son over the older one who apparently likes the decadent Tokyo Disneyland which of course would render him unfit for the post of a feared military dictator. still I fail to see the notability of a dictator choosing his son to replace him. sounds pretty much business as usual. also who is to say that the plans will go through. the kid might get killed before his father.--Wikireader41 (talk) 01:48, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose. While it seems significant, I agree with Modest Genius that the time for posting is when he actually takes over. Ks0stm(T•C•G)01:08, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Strongest possible support. What's with this "when he becomes leader" crap? We post elections, not inaugurations. When he takes over, that means the elder Kim dies and that's the news. The "monarchic tendencies" aren't really confined to Asian countries, though. Remember the Clintons and Bushes? –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 03:51, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment It isn't even concrete that this youngest son will be the successor. He was simply promoted to a position where he has more power, and many speculate that he will follow and is currently the heir-apparant. It's all speculation at this point. Grsz1103:57, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
That's some well-referenced speculation, if I may add. Also, why am I not surprised the item immediately below this is getting an easier time than this? Like come on, Iceland, how many people are there? Oh wait, the correct question will be, how many White guys are there? –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 04:06, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The exact same article speculates that after the current Kim dies it could be a triumvarate. Posting that the 27-year old Kim is appointed the successor would be incredibly inaccurate. Grsz1104:11, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment we post elections yes. This guy probably didnt win a single election even in School. ( presuming he did think necessary to go to one). I cant recall the last time we posted appointment of a General ( even a legitimate one). Why are we giving so much importance to speculation of what may happen. What if this guy decides to go to Tokyo Disneyland too or does something else silly. will we post that too ?--Wikireader41 (talk) 15:10, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The article lead states that he is presumed to be the heir. on ITN we can not crystal ball and put presumed. the blurb should only mention that he became a general or whatever. the presumption based on that can be read in the article. -- Ashish-g5513:46, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly, he became a general. And that is notable how? How about "Kim Jong-un of North Korea becomes a four-star general and may one day become President." If when Jong-il dies there is an immediate successor, whether this guy or something else, that would be in the same blurb. If there is a little bit of gap, then the successor would get their own. Grsz1114:33, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I echo Grsz's concerns here...all he did was become a general (from my understanding of it), and nothing else is certain at this point. I would be more for this if it was a bit more rock solid that something significant will result from him becoming general. Ks0stm(T•C•G)15:17, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. what kind of blurb can you write for this ?
Why are people so bemused as to what his becoming a general actually means in this context? North Korea is a military dictatorship, they have a policy of military first, the military controls all state functions. If people don't understand the significance of this event, you just have to read one or two of the sources. And that is not even the important part, it is his appointment to the NDC that is the most important part, it is the NDC that has supreme power. This is a big deal, and it should have gone up hours ago. We have just posted the result of the Tuvalu election for jebus sake, who on Earth in the world gives a flying toss about that, really? That, together with the Moscow Mayor item, makes this continuing delay pretty outrageous tbh. MickMacNee (talk) 17:44, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Iceland's former PM charged at Court of Impeachment
Geir Haarde, Iceland's Prime Minister during the country's finance disaster is being prosecuted at the Landsdómur - Iceland's Court of Impeachment. The charge is negligence in the events leading up to the banking collapse in 2008. The Althingi just decided this with 33 votes against 30. This will be the first time this court which was established in 1905 will be called into session. __meco (talk) 18:40, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Strongest Support. It is very rare for a head of government (in a democracy) to be prosecuted for acts committed in that office. Also, the collapse of the Icelandic economy was spectacular and has received a huge amount of coverage around the world. Physchim62(talk)19:16, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Am I right in saying he has just been charged now? Isn't the result (the actual prosecution) more of the ITN-worthy news. Although, the sheer magnitude leaves me leaning support. Grsz1119:35, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Haarde is the first world leader to be criminally prosecuted following the 2008 financial crisis. That's big enough, for sure. __meco (talk) 19:49, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The Icelandic parliament has voted by 33–30 to send Haarde before the court: in the same session, it declined to send three other ministers (foreign minister, finance minister and "business" minister in charge of banking) in the previous government the same way. While an indictment, which is what this effectively is, is not the same as a guilty verdict, it is still pretty strong stuff. Physchim62(talk)19:55, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The Beeb says that Matthew did it. That said, the Matthew article needs updating of its impact in Mexico: at least another 6 people were killed by the tropical depression, aside from the landslide. So support, pending that update to the Matthew article. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff)19:55, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support. The landslide may have killed as many as 1,000, which would make Matthew comparable to Stan. Another landslide also recently occurred in Colombia and may be related to the low pressure system that formed Matthew/Nicole/Otto/Paula, and while the Mexico landslide's death toll is currently lower, it will almost certainly rise. Matthew also affected the same areas hit by Agatha, TD 11-E and Karl, as well as the regions in southeastern Mexico hit by the 2007 floods.
Whoa, slow down...I just heard on the evening news that 3 people were confirmed dead and 12 missing...that's waaaay under the 1000 some sources have stated, so which is right? Ks0stm(T•C•G)01:00, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
there is a difference in "confirmed dead" and "estimated dead". the discrepancy has been because nobody has been able to get to the area to "confirm" the deaths.--Wikireader41 (talk) 01:39, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
(ec) BBC News is reporting 4 deaths. Let's get the facts straight before posting this; the article says an 'estimated 300' are dead, which seems to be wrong or at least not supported at the moment.--Johnsemlak (talk) 01:43, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Stuxnet, a new kind of a self-replicating "worm" that started on a single USB drive, has spread rapidly through industrial computer systems around the world, raising suspicions of a state-sponsored attack.[10]Crnorizec (talk) 00:13, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment IT is worth noting that below it was nominated on the basis of being designed to take out Iran's nuke plant but since it was only a popular theory but was only a suspicion it was rejected. Now it is confirmed to be attacking rather vigurously Iran's nuke systems So We might need to reconsider. I am going to read my tech blogs and return as this might be ITN worthy now. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 00:41, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
oppose oops just saw the more recent below.... agree need more concrete evidence significance as my TechBlogs indicate it has infected 30,000 computers thats rather minute compared to some virus if it move beyond minor annoyance I'll support The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 00:46, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support this has been nominated 3 times in the last week. it seems fairly well established that most infections were in Iran. It is the first of such attacks against any country.--Wikireader41 (talk) 15:27, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Other than 'there are lots of infections in Iran', what evidence exists that this was directed against any particular country? That's just speculation. On balance it may well be true, but it's still speculation. Modest Geniustalk15:31, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose. It's an interesting story, but there just seems to be too much "oooh! aaahh!" speculation to really fit with ITN. We're not infallible, but we do try to only post stories which are rock-solid confirmed. Physchim62(talk)16:54, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support. According to several sources it's the most complex computer virus ever detected (this is also what should go into the blurb). This fact alone makes it notable. Add to this the connection to one of the top international news subjects, the nuclear program of Iran, and the speculation by experts that only nation states would be capable of creating such a virus. It's both important and interesting, and about as notable as a computer virus can get. Offliner (talk) 19:39, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral. I agree that it seems notable, but only by its nature, not its "suspected" purpose. We shouldn't be reporting speculation, which could put it in Iran out of coincidence just us much as purpose. Nightw07:29, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
one other nitpick: "Raising further concerns over the safety of the personal transporter" the source doesnt say anything like that! It seems really simple that it is intelligent not to drive motor vehicle near cliffs.... The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 02:52, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Actually after so many deaths from natural disasters and whatever obscure or dictatorial leader gets (re)elected, this would be a good change of pace. Nergaal (talk) 18:09, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support. I understand the concerns above, but Moscow is a pretty big city, Luzhkov has been mayor for well over a decade, and central governments stepping in to sack mayors of large cities is hardly an everyday occurence. I won't cry if this doesn't get posted, but it seems to be the sort of story we should at least consider. Physchim62(talk)16:57, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Leaning toward support. Physchim62 summed it up pretty well. In addition, the outspoken mayor has been at the center of several high-profile controversies - his article has an entire section devoted to these - and the article is in a reasonable shape. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:20, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support if the article is up to scratch. As someone who has lived in Moscow for 13 years this is stunning news. Luzhkov was a massive figure in one of the world's largest cities who wielded considerable power here. He reshaped the city in fundamental ways--he redesigned Red Square to prevent the old Soviet-style communist parades; he oversaw the building of vast amounts of infrastructure; he had the Christ the Saviour Cathedral rebuilt in central Moscow. He's continually been in the news over corruption charges, his opposition to gay rights, and his strong opinions on Russia's foreign affairs.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:53, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support this item without having looked too carefully at it. I've noticed this making big headlines, and the move is obviously extraordinary, Moscow is one of the world's most important cities, etc. __meco (talk) 18:44, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support. It was already posted, but I'm still expressing my support. Luzhkov was among the most powerful politicians in Russia, and his dismissal is one of the most important political events in Russia this year. Offliner (talk) 00:03, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'll defer to those more familiar with Russian politics and assume this is ITN-worthy. However, I have to say I don't understand how the mayoralty of Moscow is considered an ITN topic but not the mayoralty of London or the governorship of a big U.S. state. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:53, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The mayoralty of Moscow may not be ITN-notable per se, but Luzhkov was one of Russia's top 5, if not top 3, politicians, and the longest-serving regional leader. Firing him is a daring move by President Medvedev and could have important implications for the Duma elections of next year. As a sidenote, I would expect governorship of a big U.S. to be ITN-notable as well. Offliner (talk) 00:03, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Well, if Arnie gets punted outside the election by Obama in a power struggle, then yes; People agreed on Fonseka being framed by Rajapaksa but the article was stuffed up, so it never went up. SupportYellowMonkey (new photo poll) 00:19, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding the mayor of London or NY, those mayors can't be 'sacked' in such a manner, though they can be removed from office via other means. Luzhkov's removal was very sudden and surprising--that adds to the notability. Still, I'm pretty sure if Mayor Bloomberg were to leave office in an unceremonious manner such as impeachment, it would be reported on ITN. As said above, this is a rather extraordinary removal, not a routine departure. Nobody is suggesting that mayors of cities (btw, Moscow's mayor is the equivalent of a governor in Russia's political system) in Russia will be automatic ITN items.--Johnsemlak (talk) 01:32, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Unilever plc, an Anglo-Dutch consumer products giant, has entered into an agreement to buy Alberto-Culver, a manufacturer of hair and skin care products, for $3.7 billion. (TheStreet)
95 people, including two former mayors and planning chief of Marbella, appear in court in Malaga in one of Spain's biggest corruption trials. (The Telegraph)(BBC)
This [18][19] worm attack on nuclear facilities in Iran could have a very "interesting" development. It might be notable and unusual enough to wattant being on the ITN. Nergaal (talk) 00:07, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It is currently being featured on DYK. Of course, it does not mean it cannot be featured on ITN again, but I think we should wait for something more conclusive. --BorgQueen (talk) 00:10, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
No, presidential elections are not "the big ones in Venezuela". Chavez has controlled the legislature for five years, because the opposition handed him a victory by boycotting the 2005 elections. Now that has been reversed. Chavez has stayed in power, decreased independence of the judiciary, and consolidated power in the executive precisely because he controlled the legislature-- this is a significant change and defeat for him, and advance for democratic institutions in Venezuela. If the article is updated to include the results, and neutralize the POV, it most certainly is ITN worthy. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:54, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support, with cleanup. The article is currently in a POV state (does not mention gerrymandering by Chavez), but it is certainly a significant election, not only in Venezuela wrt limits on Chavez's ability to control the legislature, his loss overall (52% went to opposition), but in terms of Chavez's global presence. We have reported less significant elections results for Chavez ITN in the past. See NYT,Los Angeles Times,The Associated Press,BBC and multiple mentions of gerrymandering on Google news. I suggest this is a very viable ITN candidate if the results can be added to the article, along with mention of the gerrymandering and violation of campaign laws by Chavez, to render the article more neutral. Even if the article remains POV, I haven't tagged it as such, because the results are worthy of ITN. Even without mention of the gerrymandering, Chavez was handed a defeat as far as a restriction on his ability to control the legislature (for now, that is). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:50, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There are still three seats to declare (por definir in Spanish), so we've got a bit of time to get the results on the page before posting to the template. I've got to go out for a while, but I'll try to do it later if no one beats me to it. Physchim62(talk)16:02, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support once the article is updated to include the official results. Article appears NPOV to me: if anyone wants to include mentions of alleged irregularities, that's fine by me, but could they please read (and understand) WP:NPOV and WP:UNDUE first. An article is not necessarily POV simply because it doesn't include a single editor's personal political views. Physchim62(talk)14:28, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It's the single editor who is pushing, both here and at WT:ITN, for the inherently PoV term "gerrymandering" to be used in the article to describe a redistricting of the kind that goes on regularly in most countries; an editor who seems to believe that Wikipedia readers need to be told what to think rather than being allowed to decide for themselves on the basis of facts that we have collated. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest of that single editor, but it doesn't make her any more correct or any less biased. Physchim62(talk)16:09, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Have you read the sources? They use the term. I've now added enough balance and MOS cleanup to the article to render it ready for the mainpage, although it still is skewed towards partisan sources. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:15, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Opinions (as in sources that use the term "gerrymandering") have to be notable as well, otherwise they are just words. There are plenty of ways of presenting the results (which are not complete yet, as noted above): I'm sorry that you seem to have made work for others in your partisan edits. Perhaps you should stick to the left-hand side of the Main Page, where at least your errors will be viewed by fewer readers. Physchim62(talk)17:25, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I was working to neutralize the article based on numerous highly reliable sources, but Psychim62 reverted most of it, so I've tagged the article POV now. What a pity. Do y'all allow one editor to keep a worthy item out of ITN? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:53, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support, now that I've read the article. Seems pretty noteworthy. The article seems fine to me also, although Chavez's article seems a bit anti. Nightw15:36, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oh dear, it seems we now have a "POV" tag looming over that article. Apparently Sandy felt her opinions weren't being given enough prominence. Nightw17:50, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
When we get PoV-pushers who have built a Wikipedia career out of wasting other editors' time, then yes. If you wish to comment on a contribution with suitable respect for the opinions of other contributors, please feel free to make the transition from the LHS to the RHS. Physchim62(talk)18:08, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Physchim62, you've been around long enough not to need a WP:CIVIL, WP:AGF or WP:NPA warning; please stop personalizing issues, and bringing your dislike of FAC into ITN and an article worthy of the mainpage. Having FACs archived is not a reason to take it out on me, or make disparaging remarks about me when my text is always reliably sourced. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:35, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The blurb might be expanded to mention that he lost the popular vote (he retains a majority in the legislature partly due to the gerrymandering mentioned in reliable sources, but losing the popular vote is a major event). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:21, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
We'll decide the blurb when the article's ready, thank-you very much. We should present the Venezuelan election results in the same style as we present other election results, IMHO. Physchim62(talk)18:10, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I hope so (but then that would allow readers who don't want the news of Chavez's defeat to revert neutral edits and keep the news out of the news, wouldn't it?) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:36, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Well placing {{POV}} tags on an article simply to prevent it getting on the Main Page is clear WP:DISRUPT, and we have a general and practical rule here that a single editor cannot prevent an article going up. Physchim62(talk)19:02, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Facts. I woke up this morning, checked the article, found it POV. I started balancing it, without adding the POV tag, precisely so I wouldn't interfere with ITN. You reverted all balance and highly reliable sources. Then I added the POV tag, which was warranted well before I came to see if it was on ITN. Who disrupted and who collaborated? Now, since Eraserhead fixed it, I believe the article is presentable for the mainpage, unless you plan to editwar. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:27, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry Sandy, but your word is not law here. Your whole attitude is evidence of your own PoV-pushing: "I woke up this morning, checked the article, found it POV. I started balancing it": OK, so you didn't think to talk about it first? In "balancing" it, you have included references which do not support your claims, and another reference which is obviously erroneous, as I have pointed out on the article talk page. In your attempts to "balance" the article, you have also wasted a lot of people's time which could have gone into providing official data for the elections, rather than simply repeating the misconceptions in other media. A little bit more humility on your part would have saved everyone a lot of hassle: please remember that in the future. Physchim62(talk)20:23, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The "majority of the vote" seems unclear at the moment, as there were two separate ballots (one for individual candidates and one on a party list system), as someone has pointed out on the article talk page. As a holding blurb, how about:
That is accurate on the mostly complete results that we have. I certainly don't oppose modifying the blurb to mention the minority vote once it's independently confirmed, but I should point out that it is not usual to make such a disclaimer on ITN election results. Physchim62(talk)23:13, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support, per The Resident Anthropologist. "Sheer novelty" doesn't really do this justice. I assumed TRA was having a laugh, but the The Daily Telegraph seems very serious (it's not 1 April, is it? Nope, just checking...) The article mentions "space ambassador for extraterrestrial contact affairs" but could do with a wee bit of expansion. TFOWR14:27, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
6 civilians are wounded in an explosion apparently targeting the Shiite politician Mowaffak al-Rubaie near a fuel station in Sa'doun Street, Baghdad. (Xinhua)
America's Department of Defense (The Pentagon) admits purchasing nearly 10,000 copies of a memoir by U.S. Army Reserve officer Anthony Shaffer, destroying all of them in an effort to suppress secret information and ordering heavy redactions of the book's second printing. (The Daily Telegraph)(Toronto Sun)(CNN)
Pakistan's minister for defence production Abdul Qayum Jatoi resigns after criticising the military for allegedly carrying out political assassinations. (BBC)
Gun battle between security forces and Taliban fighters leave four militants including their commander dead in Wardak province 40 km west of Afghanistan capital Kabul. (Xinhua)
Neutral at the moment but leaning towards oppose This is technically my area of expertise. Several initial observations, As far as i can tell this a third tier Journal it is only abstracted through springer and not affiliated with any Association. Secondly this is not a paradigm shift nor do i see it as catalyst for one in the near future. I am awaiting an Interlibrary loan of this Article referenced in the article to see exactly what it says. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 20:19, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, its a third tier Journal, which means its not widely recognized right now as a terribly paradigmatic discovery. The information from news.discovery.com makes it seem like the author is making big stretches with the evidence. It may be more clear in the Journal actual article thus i am not opposing it yet but playing sceptic. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 20:48, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I read the news reports with interest, and it did strike me that the team were making a lot of suppositions to arrive at their interesting conclusion, which is why I didn't consider nominating it here. Physchim62(talk)01:00, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Although this election is significant - Ed has a good chance of becoming the next Prime Minister - and although it was close, it is still an election for an opposition party of just one country, so its international significance is quite small. Franklinville (talk) 16:31, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: The candidates nominated in the US presidential election were in ITN, and that happens every 4 years while leadership elections tend to be much less frequent. I suggest ITN introduces a consistent policy. -62.30.219.79 (talk) 16:34, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
That's because we have so rabid commentators here who think that anything that happens in the U.S. must be important: it doesn't make them right, evn if we occasionally give in to shut them up for a few seconds. Physchim62(talk)16:54, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
And, in total, leadership elections of governing and opposing parties in parliamentary democracies happen far more frequently in the once-every-four-years candidacies in the United States. Therequiembellishere (talk) 19:14, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support if the timer becomes red - its more important than most of the other stuff here (the commonwealth games and Gennady Yanayev being exceptions) - though admittedly it is fairly local. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:49, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. It's attracting a lot of attention, but it's not that significant. It's just a change in leadership in a political party. The only thing that's changed is who asks the most questions on a Wednesday morning. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:02, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support. There is no rule against "localness" on ITN, nor is "internationalness" a criterion. If it's of interest to enough people and meets all of the other criteria, than that's enough, period. We have a lot of readers from the UK, so a lot of people will be interested. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:49, 26 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Not of international interest, and probably not all that significant. It's fine to speculate and say that he will most likely become the next PM, but that doesn't make it actually so. If they win the next election, then we'll post. Nightw06:06, 26 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral, though I'd echo Mwalcoff. This 'too local' argument is sometimes applied in extreme. The head of the UK opposition party is certainly relevant to the entire United Kingdom, and is of interest beyond. It's not as if this event only affects the people of a small town somewhere.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:54, 26 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that the article has now been expanded, though much of it needs some editing at this time. (Possibly simply copied and translated from the Russian article?). So that should be tidied up. And in the end, I"m still uncertain about a man whose main notability was for a brief moment in what was one of the more important events of the 20th century. The event is certainly notable, but was Yanayev? Both before and after the 1991 coup he's a fairly obscure figure. Among other things, the article doesn't say where he was born (in Gorky perhaps, now Nizhny Novgorod?)--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:38, 26 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support He was an extremely important person in Russian history, if Nelson Mandela or Fidel Castro died tomorrow would they not be featured in ITN because of old age? Fixman (talk!)00:56, 26 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Only the extraordinarily notable should get on ITN when the die of old age. This guy was a footnote in history. When Gorbachev dies, we can put him on ITN. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:51, 26 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
On the grounds that ITN death criteria as currently written only require that 1. The deceased was in a high ranking office of power, and had a significant contribution/impact on the country/region.or that the death itself was significant, I'm willing to consider posting this. However, the writing in the later life and death section is less than brilliant. Someone would need to give it a thorough copy edit and add more well-referenced reaction to the death before I could seriously consider it, though. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 04:01, 26 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Given that he caused the collapse of the Soviet Union which meant that the whole of Central Asia stopped being communists. Which the led to the US becoming the world's only superpower. I don't really see how you can argue that he didn't have a "significant impact" on that region - or really even the world. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 10:41, 26 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's a stretch to say Yanayev 'caused' the collapse of the USSR. He was one of the 'gang of eight' and the WP article says he wasn't the most important member. There are numerous individuals who played a greater role in the collapse of the Soviet Union (e.g. Eduard Shevardnadze, Andrey Sakharov--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:48, 26 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support. Historically significant individual, even if it was mostly for something he tried and failed. However, this is one of those cases where a good article has to make up for less-than-dramatic notability, and the article isn't great. Modest Geniustalk16:54, 26 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - everybody's safe and sound. Besides, no major revelations have come out as of now. Best to wait, although I still don't think this is ITN material.--Mar4d (talk) 14:31, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Striking pilots from the state-owned Air Zimbabwe end their two week strike that grounded flights and left passengers stranded after a pay deal with the government in Zimbabwe. (Times Live)(Reuters)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
From 8th September 2010, US demands EU visitors pay an entry fee online by credit card.
"It's absurd that of all countries the US should tax people who are not represented. What about taxation without representation, that played a considerable role in US history,"
Electronic Travel Authorisation System (Esta) is a form of hidden visa, EU travellers who are refused by this system cannot board a plane to the US. US travel fee draws new dividing line with EU, euobserver.com, 24 Sept 2010
78.148.0.182 (talk) 10:40, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The collapse of several parts of the stadium and the possible cancellation of the event - per YellowMonkey below. And its been on the Guardians front page for 2 days. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 06:46, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support First item on the news in every Australian and British and Indian outlet for the last two days, and counting. A bridge has fallen over, the ceiling at the weightlifting has fallen over, and the village is a giant toilet, with sewerage lying about, human and animal waste splattered on the beds and walls and everywhere, and unsealed electrical wires dangling everywhere, broken windows, tiles fallen off etc YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 06:56, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
support - It's been headline news for weeks now, with the withdrawal of several high-profile sportspeople. And why not, as Monkey put it bluntly, giant toilets are newsworthy :) (However I do need to stress that the blurb must be based on fact, and not speculation.) —Dark07:09, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
As a matter-of-fact, the event will be continued per the Indian authorities and will not be delayed or cancelled. Perhaps this ITN should appear on the first day of the Games? ANGCHENRUITalk♨08:27, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. As per today's headlines on BBC World organizers seem to have calmed the situation somewhat. Much can still happen in this story, so I think we should await further major developments, or the opening of the games, whichever comes first. __meco (talk) 10:31, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support - once the games start. No problem with mentioning the very real issues that have dogged the Games, but I don't see any reason to report a "controversy" story now, instead of a "major sporting event opens" story on 3 October. TFOWR10:46, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support but when the games start. A good blurb would obviously mention the start of the games, and then we could have something going like "....amidst controversy" with these words (linked to the controversies article perhaps). Mar4d (talk) 12:50, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I realise the Commonwealth Games are a pretty big event for India. It has even been on the news here in Finland. JIP | Talk16:01, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose publishing current "crisis" unless national teams withdraw wholesale, which seems most unikely at this stage: fear mongering by the press and administrators talking arrogantly about the standards their clients should be entitled to ("unfit for human habitation": has that guy seen how much of the world's population lives?) Eventually, nothing more will result from this other than a few extra building staff being drafted in for a hurried finish to the accommodation, and those who have been in change getting a rocket. Support routine announcement of Commonwealth games when they open.Kevin McE (talk) 16:31, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It's not really Oppose right, more of Postpone until event opens. And also, the situation seems quite more grave than you described, but anyway that's what I gain from being continually shelled on the event from my news sources. ANGCHENRUITalk♨04:52, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Let's not publish anything at least until the event commences (or in the unlikely case it gets cancelled). After all, things might take a different course in the next few days, we never know. Hopefully, a better one. ANGCHENRUITalk♨17:10, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Its only a matter of time. People were complaining about Beijing because they had some algae to clean off the sea a few days before. The Indians haven't finished their stadiums yet - and the athletes are supposed to be arriving now. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 23:50, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, since there have been a few people who have opposed solely on the basis that only a cancellation would be worthy enough of publishing, the Recurring items page of ITN states that a few sports events are notable based on their having "already satisfied the 'importance' criterion for inclusion on ITN, every time they occur". The only impediment to their immediate publishing onto the Main Page is the need for the article to be "updated appropriately and proposed on the candidates page before being posted." The Commonwealth Games is listed as one of such events, as you can view here. The issue here as I can see is whether we should include a statement on the concerns/controversies; stating the commencement of this event is already a convention. Just to address some of the opposers' line of reasoning. ANGCHENRUITalk♨04:45, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see the current situation as meeting the criteria on ITNR. By convention we report the commencement of events such as the Olympics or the CG. It's reasonable to conclude that we would report the official cancellation of said events. Neither has happened yet. I remain opposed for now. It is true that the games are now making headlines around the world but it's always been the policy at ITN with these kind of news stories to wait for a conclusion.--Johnsemlak (talk) 05:37, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think we agree on the same thing, just that it's been expressed in a different way. I'm stating that the commencement of the event has to be reported; as for the situation, I'm saying its reportage should be discussed first. I guess it's about adding 'future' to this nomination ('future candidate' eh?). Cheers, ANGCHENRUITalk♨06:24, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I realize it's getting attention, but as of right now, no countries have pulled out, so there's no significance to the developments regarding the venues. Sure, we can post the opening ceremonies, but those are 8 days away. ~DCWe Can Work It Out06:47, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I see this story as being much like the recent papal visit to Britain (which was an ITN): it's news-worthy, when it happens, and we should mention the controversies surrounding it, but the controversies are not the story, just an incidental part of it. Something like "The 2010 Commonwealth Games starts in India, amidst controversy". (Hey! That's a blurb ready for 3 October! How prepared am I?!) TFOWR08:34, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Haha, you blurb is good. I proposed a similar one a few days ago, you can check it out somewhere up there. I think though there has been a whole lot of coverage on the controversies, which you have to agree have wrecked the event greatly. I shudder to think of any other event which has been so negatively received. So in conclusion, yes we should mention the "controversies" in the blurb. ANGCHENRUITalk♨08:41, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Your blurb is better ;-) I was just trying to reuse the papal visit blurb, and going from memory. But yes, I think that's exactly what we want - mention the controversy, but the real news story is the opening. TFOWR08:51, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think that there's consensus for now - the !votes seem to fall into three main groups: (a) Support (now), (b) Support (when it starts), and (c) Oppose (unless games are cancelled). Obviously, consensus can change but I'm not seeing strong enough consensus for posting yet. Then again, I'm the wrong person to make that call, because I've !voted for "support, but not yet"... I'd imagine another admin would make much the same call, however. TFOWR09:01, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Okay but there will be reportage of the commencement of the event at the very least? That's the baseline. The thing now is whether we want to add more details than that. ANGCHENRUITalk♨15:00, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
As cynical as it might sound, if in a part of the world there are five storms a year with that number we should not mention all of them. Cycling is a notable worldwide sport and it gets at most 3 posts a year, so why should South-East Asian storms get more? If a yearly major, worldwide competition is going through notoriously-difficult issues it is notable enough for ITN if all the five storms get on the ITN. Nergaal (talk) 23:39, 26 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
So should we or should we not report in advance (before the event begins)? :O That is in essence what we are divided on. We can suggest appropriate blurbs if so. Best, ANGCHENRUITalk♨02:01, 26 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until the games start or they are canceled. It's been the practice on ITN to list things that happen rather than the lead up to them. I don't know what an ITN blurb would look like now. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:12, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support if/when they are cancelled. Something like The 2010 Commonwealth Games are cancelled due to incomplete work and concerns over unsafe conditions at competition sites.Grsz1104:08, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I'll defer to Mwalcoff (not a major policy change) but the underlying issue is one that affects us all. This seems to have international relevance and interest. Put me down as neutral, possible support for now, I may firm up my !vote later. TFOWR10:54, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Clean stoves IS a major policy change, with regard that the focus of the administration(s) so far has been in dumping more arms. Crnorizec (talk) 15:43, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Approximately 16,000 people have died in the United States between 2001 and 2007 due to people using cell phones while driving, according to a new report. (Reuters)
Chinese authorities investigate four Japanese employees of Fujita Corp., suspected of entering a military zone and illegally videotaping military targets in northern Hebei Province. (AP)(BBC)
The U.S. state of Virginia executes its first woman since 1912; Teresa Lewis will also be the first woman in the U.S. to be executed since 2005. (Sky News)
Oppose I question the international significance of this item. This has received no attention in Canada. As far as I can tell, this is just another sentencing. --PlasmaTwa220:53, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Pakistans ambassador in US Hussain Haqqani is personally working to get her release /repatriated to pakistan.[29] Rioting in Pakistan in response to the sentencing.[30] Not to mention she is the most senior Al-qaeda member ever to be convicted in a court of law.--Wikireader41 (talk) 18:23, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It was not prooven that she is a member of al-Qaeda, and she was convicted for attempted murder. Your blurb makes it sound like she was convicted of the former. Since she is a Pakistani citizen, it would also be prudent to mention the reaction in her home country, since that is why it appears to be noteworthy internationally.
Posted. Tweaked slightly, I didn't want to suggest that the attempted murder was by a federal court: courts tend not to attempt murder... ;-) TFOWR10:05, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
After a quick look, I don't see the source for the 59 fatalities in Taiwan, while there is something mentioned at PRC. If there were fatalities in the mainland China as well, this should be mentioned. Once this is fixed, I'm ready to post. --Tone20:37, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, at the end it says 54 dead and 42 missing. The number should match the one in the infobox (59)... I just wouldn't want to put a wrong number on ITN. --Tone21:34, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thats the China section though, if you read through the Taiwan section you should be able to get 5 more deaths. (its just not written well imo).Jason Rees (talk) 21:52, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The Taiwan section says early on "Three People died in Taiwan, on saturday, in accidents related to the Typhoon". Towards the end it says "another person was found dead, increasing the direct death toll to '2'". I'm not comfortable posting this yet, and I'd really like to have something to post soon. Any takers for a bit of updating? TFOWR12:24, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Updated for the latest fatalities, which seem to check out OK now. Otherwise untouched. Tone, you'll know better than me - is piping PRC to "China" OK for ITN? Otherwise, I'm happy with the blurb. TFOWR18:32, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think people should start thinking about setting a threshold for these storms. There is essentially a storm at least every two weeks, and to be honest I remember more than a couple in the past few months from Taiwan. Do we really want to have so many of them even though they are really not that unusual (even the number of victims is always around 30-50). 19:17, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Meh it does not break any notable threshold (from 200MW to 300MW), it is the boggest offshore windfarm. The largest is at 700MW, Roscoe Wind Farm. When Toy Story 3 was the first animated movie to break 1 billion, people opposed, and I think this is a similar situation. Nergaal (talk) 20:17, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Three troops were killed when a roadside blast struck a military vehicle in Bara area of Khyber, one of the seven tribal agencies in Pakistan's restive northwest bordering Afghanistan. (Xinhua)
At least one person is killed and 10 injured in a shootout in Quetta, Pakistan. (Xinhua)
Two workers are killed and another is injured after a mine in Balıkesir collapses. 22 workers have been killed there in the past six months. (Today's Zaman)
An international summit titled "The Arctic: Territory of Dialogue" begins in Moscow, Russia, on territorial claims and co-operation in the Arctic. (BBC)(Voice of Russia)
The discovery was announced in the online open-access journal produced by the Public Library of Science. Is that a notable journal? If not, I doubt we should feature publications submitted to less recognized journals. Nergaal (talk) 20:20, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
A specially-appointed UN panel has found that the IDF broke international law and that there is sufficient evidence for prosecutions for contraventions of the Geneva Convention.[31] --Mkativerata (talk) 20:42, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I recognize the importance of this issue, but this kind of seems like routine news to me. The UN always blasts Israel in these things, and this was hardly a surprise as the panel didn't interview any of the Israelis. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:08, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - The incident was certainly very notable, the coverage of the report on it has not been though and it sounds like it basically says what was said at claimed at the time anyway. Also there are potential problems with the report itself. BritishWatcher (talk) 23:14, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The report simply states the blindingly obvious, there's no real news story until the marines and their commanders are indicted before a court of law. Physchim62(talk)16:52, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support. The abstract of the original paper is here. It is difficult to write an accurate blurb: it would be something like "Lincolnshire scientists show that, for people over 40 years old, vaccination against influenza is associated with a 20% lower risk of heart attack in the following year." I say "Lincolnshire" scientists because I'm originally from Lincolnshire myself ;)
There is no formal causal effect in the study; it is merely assumed that the vaccne lowers the risk of respiratory illness and that respiratory illness is correlated with heart attacks. Physchim62(talk)16:55, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
weak oppose. this is retrospective data. would be erroneous to assume Cause and effect as pointed by Physchim. One possibility could be people who are health conscious and get flu vaccine tend to have healthy habits ( and listen to their doctors) which prevents heart attacks ;-). agree we need more Health news in ITN--Wikireader41 (talk) 20:36, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Upon reading and reflecting on the comments above once more, I'm not so sure it's that significant. I won't oppose, but am changing my vote to netural. Ks0stm(T•C•G)15:58, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Italian authorities seize 23 million euro (approximately US$30 million) from a Vatican bank account in a money laundering probe. (AP)
U.S. entertainers Paris Hilton and Nicky Hilton are stopped by immigrations at a Japanese airport and forbidden to enter the country due to Paris's drug conviction the day prior. (Fox News)
President of ParaguayFernando Lugo sacks heads of the country's army, navy and air force plus five more senior officers in a decision aimed at "institutionalizing the structure of the armed forces". (BBC)
It's under investigation for possible money laundering by Italian authorities. There's an update here but more is needed. Also note that €23m (about $30.5m/£19.5m) has already been seized. Not the first time the bank has been caught in a scandal. ~DCWe Can Work It Out20:48, 21 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
How about "Italian police announce that two officials from the Vatican Bank are being investigated and €23 million euros have been siezed as part of an inquiry into claims of money-laundering." Might be a bit wordy, and I'm not thrilled with the word "inquiry," but I wanted to avoid using "investigation" twice... C628 (talk) 02:22, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This is only an investigation, no charges have been made, so there must be a presumption of innocence until proven otherwise. --Stephen02:38, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Posted as there is consensus and an updated article. No presumption of innocence is being offended here - we, as is the news, are reporting action taken by police in respect of alleged activities.--Mkativerata (talk) 03:18, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I have to step away for a bit. I'll deliver the credits in a few hours, unless anyone (doesn't have to be an admin or even an uninvolved editor) wants to do it in the meantime. It seems: nomination credit to DC, update credit to C628.--Mkativerata (talk) 03:21, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This purely refers to the US. Recessions in other parts of the world are ongoing, ended years ago, or in some cases never happened. We can't go posting each and every one of them. Besides, economic growth estimates are notorious for being revised after the fact (and varying between assessors), and this one is a year after the events it deals with. Modest Geniustalk14:09, 21 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
More than 600 antiquities lost in mysterious circumstances due to "inappropriate handover procedures" after being repatriated by the United States in 2009 are found and returned to the National Museum of Iraq. (BBC)
Yes but September has seen an unprecedented dramatic surge in these controversial strikes with more than 70 killed in more than a dozen strikes already.--Wikireader41 (talk) 14:51, 20 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
@ Smarter folk than what I am: I've linked to TIFF twice: once for People's Choice Award (section), and once for TIFF itself. This seems ugly - any better suggestions? (never mind, linked to 2010 TIFF instead. Tweaks still very welcome). TFOWR14:25, 20 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
its an award win. dont know what else could be added except the fact that the movie won the award. i can put some random quotes from critics if needed. -- Ashish-g5514:40, 20 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
At present the win is mentioned in the lead, but not in the article. I'd also like to see TIFF wiki-linked. It's maybe too soon for a "reception" section (where awards would normally go, I assume?) but it should certainly be covered in the "release" section. Quotes from critics, if available, would be very useful. TFOWR14:47, 20 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'd consider that sufficient enough. There isn't a hell of a lot you could add outside of a couple sentences saying it won, anyway. --PlasmaTwa218:30, 20 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
A new convoy of vehicles departs the UK with humanitarian aid for Gaza, more than three months after 9 people were killed in the Gaza flotilla raid. (Al Jazeera)
China suspends high level diplomatic exchanges with Japan after the latter extended the detention of a Chinese fishing captain. (BBC)(Nikkei)(The Guardian)
Nominating this because it is listed at ITN/R as the highest level of Gaelic football (but that is just a guide). Anyway... the other footballs (Association, American, Australian, Canadian, etc.) are listed there as well, the article is updated in this case, the event is mentioned in the portal and it now just requires opposes and supports. The winning team last won this in 1990 as well if that helps. RTÉ SportBBC SportThe Irish Times --candle•wicke23:48, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose AFL and Gaelic football. Sport played by one country with almost no imports from other countries. I'd be very suspicious of NRL too, since almost entirely a one-nation tournament except some Kiwis YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 01:32, 20 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It's not, really. Vuelta has unanimous support, apart from an idiot who might oppose but hasn't stated a firm opinion either way. Right now (with a red timer) I'd be up for either or both being posted. TFOWR01:23, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
They ought to be considered in isolation - I'd be fine with both going up. There is one difference: this item is supported by ITN/R; the cycling item isn't.--Mkativerata (talk) 01:25, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'd say ITN/R is a silly list. Were they all approved by some rough multi-user means?? cycling, a major world sport, has the same as AFL, which is played by half a country. RL also has more scheduled events than cycling. The WC in cycling/swimming etc are also unlisted/below NRL/AFL [shakes head] YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 02:03, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Floods affect great part of Slovenia, causing damage and disrupting the transport routes.
One of the worst floods in recorded country's history, major damage but luckily no fatalities reported. The capital is affected as well. This year is really generous with floods. --Tone21:13, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. We really have had a deluge of flood stories this year, about one a month: we need to say stop to some of the smaller ones in order to keep variety in the stories we post. Physchim62(talk)00:49, 20 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, probably we need to limit the amount of flood stories. I'll take it to DYK instead. Could anyone run a bot to convert the references? Thanks. --Tone07:24, 20 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Swimming the English Channel is one of those things that seems to hold international interest. This instance seems all the more interesting, due to the swimmer being a quadruple amputee. And isn't 14 hours pretty impressive anyway? TFOWR22:34, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Step on my toes any time - I take your point about the red-ness. I think your version is better, but it's a tough one - I wasn't happy with mine, either. TFOWR23:31, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Just a note, after this discussion, I AfD-ed the article. The major opinion seems to be for keep but you may still comment. --Tone16:13, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support DC, of course you have heard of a bombing in Baghdad before. And under no circumstances do I see that any bombing there is deprecated as unimportant. 31 deaths, 100 + injured - that's a fairly large casualty size as well. Support for inclusion. Mar4d (talk) 00:57, 20 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral, we've already reported on the topic, not much has changed since (the oil has not been leaking for a while). --Tone21:13, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I'm tending towards oppose, as it's not listed on WP:ITNR, and we've had a lot of sport recently. Good blurb, though - I appreciate a good blurb, and particularly when it accompanies the initial nomination. TFOWR 16:39, 19 September 2010 (UTC) Striking part: see comment below. TFOWR01:27, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
No opinion on this nomination, but ITN/R shouldn't be the standard by which we measure items—it's more a convenient list of possibly ITN-worthy items than anything else and I've seen several events listed there shot down when nominated here. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:42, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment #2: given the redness of the timer, and my support for more sport elsewhere, my comment above can be ignored (I've struck it). I'm neutral on this, leaning towards support on the basis of a red timer, a good blurb, and a picture. TFOWR01:27, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Strongest possible support once the results are published. Are you kidding me? This is a historic election in Sweden. We either get the first female prime minister, or the first rightwing government to win a second term. Theleftorium(talk)09:30, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
At least for me the whole point of opposing blanket election inclusions was to avoid posting elections of small island and city states which have tiny populations - so posting the elections in countries like Luxembourg, Andorra and Suriname shouldn't happen - but largish countries like Sweden should still be posted per WP:ITNR. Sorry if I was unclear before :(. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 10:15, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
WP:ITNR specifically states "All countries which are members of the UN, and other sovereign states on the list of countries", which is something I firmly agree with. They may be tiny, but they're still nations with their own significance. It'd be absurd to set an arbitrary cut-off on population. Nightw16:15, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Let's bear in mind that at ITN we don't post all national elections necessarily; they must meet the update requirement. Many of the small island states' or city states' elections don't get a sufficient update and they are not posted as a result. If, however, a suitable WP page is made for an election, I see nothing wrong with posting it, even if it's from Luxembourg.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:24, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: could someone get a blurb ready for 22:00 CEST / 20:00 UTC? I'd suggest this could be posted once the article is updated, post-results. On a different topic, can I remind you all to use ":" instead of "*"? Use "*" to highlight blurbs. Thanks! TFOWR16:37, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'd suggest something like what was done while we were waiting for the Australian election results - get a couple of alternatives ready, one for an Alliance victory, one for a Red-Green victory. TFOWR17:45, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support; I'm generally in favor of all national elections being posted. Also, the bit about the female prime minister in the second blurb sounds awkward to me; maybe reword it as "...xx% of the votes, giving the country its first female prime minister in history"? C628 (talk) 18:44, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: If the exit polls are at all reliable, we can forget about the female prime minister. The most interesting thing that could come out of this election is the far-right Sweden Democrats possibly ending up holding the balance of power. If that happens, it certainly deserves notice. Lampman (talk) 19:08, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Not that I'm aware of - The BBC are still reporting exit-polls. I agree with Lampman that the Sweden Democrats angle is interesting, but the BBC suggest a coalition of the Alliance and Red-Greens is more likely - so no "Kingmaker" role for the SD, but no news for us, either. TFOWR21:16, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
With 96% of votes counted, this does indeed seem to be the result. The Alliance will probably not cooperate with the Sweden Democrats, but the fact remains that they will influence the composition of the next government, which is notable enough in itself. Lampman (talk) 22:03, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The BBC are now reporting that the Alliance have been 'narrowly re-elected'. Using JIP's blurb:
Right now I think we might be looking at a hung parliament. a hung parliament occurs when neither major political party (or bloc of allied parties) has an absolute majority of seats in the parliament (legislature). P. S. Burton (talk)22:38, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Agree - that should have occurred to me. @P. S. Burton: the Social Democrats have conceded, the Alliance are looking to a coalition with the Greens, and the Red-Greens had already said that they'd form a coalition with the Alliance ahead of the Sweden Democrats. The BBC are reporting it as a done deal. TFOWR22:47, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'm watching Swedish Television now. All votes are now counted, however, it's far from a done deal. Both Alliance minority rule, and Alliance with the support from the Greens is possible. There will be tough negotiations. P. S. Burton (talk)22:51, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough - makes sense. There's a case to be made for posting now with an Alliance victory, but I'd prefer to hold off until we have something concrete in terms of minority rule/greens. TFOWR23:10, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think we can post the results now, since it's now clear percentage vise and we have a new parliament. The rest won't be know until parliament (Riksdag) elects the speaker and he suggests a prime minister to parliament, most likely Reinfeldt. If confirmed by parliament he then forms a cabinet (Regering), with members of the Alliance, and possibly the Greens. P. S. Burton (talk)23:16, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
All 5,668 districts are in, the Alliance has 172 or 173 seats, out of the 175 needed: BBCReutersDagens Nyheter. The only element of insecurity is the detailed count, including advance votes, but this shouldn't be enough to upset the result. If administrators are uncomfortable posting this, I would suggest including a modifier such as "appears to have". Lampman (talk) 01:43, 20 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Nationalist Sweden Democrats is too weak a way of putting it. I want to change it to "far-right Sweden Democrats." Far-right (extremhöger) is a term widely used by media and by spokespeople of the other parties now, during the national shock at an anti-immigration party getting into the Swedish parliament, for the first time ever. It's also widely used internationally: "Nightmare rise of far right shocks Sweden", notes today's Financial Times. More: watching Swedish TV (SVT) yesterday, I believe I saw every leader of the other parliamentary parties (except possibly Maud Olofsson) refer to the Sweden Democrats as a "xenophobic" ("främlingsfientligt") party. It was the very first sentence I heard out of the mouth of Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt. "Nationalist" is really making the brief definition of SD too cosy. I wouldn't use xenophobic itself on our Main Page—not encyclopedic enough, IMO, though it would do well enough in the article, sourced—but far-right, I certainly would. OK? Can I change it? Bishonen | talk16:32, 21 September 2010 (UTC).[reply]
Unsurprisingly, there's no response yet, which is my own fault; sorry I was so late for the party. I'm making the change, in the hope that my argument above is found persuasive. If not, revert me. Bishonen | talk17:18, 21 September 2010 (UTC).[reply]
No objection from me: since the Alliance are described as centre-right "nationalist" probably didn't really explain the Sweden Democrats satisfactorily. TFOWR17:40, 21 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Attacks by Taliban militants, including rocket firing, have wounded 16 people, including children, in Kunduz province in Afghanistan on election day. Nine civilians sustained injuries in Taliban-linked activities in east Afghanistan's Nangarhar province. (Xinhua)(Xinhua)
Thousands of people demonstrate in protest at the Pope's views on condom use, homosexuality, education, the ordination of women and the child abuse case. (BBC)
An Iraqi Army soldier is killed and eleven people are wounded following two bombs going off in Baghdad. (Xinhua)
Gunmen kidnapped nine police officers investigating a death in the southern Mexican state of Guerrero, and the bodies of two of the lawmen were found later. (AP via npr)(Sina)
Producers on the South African version of the Big Brother TV series evict a male housemate who punched a female housemate, bowing to pressure from women's rights activists after initially accepting the physical confrontation. (BBC)
The United Nations launches an appeal for more than $2 billion in the wake of the 2010 Pakistan floods: this represents the organisation's biggest response to a natural disaster. (BBC)
A drill reaches 33 Chilean miners trapped underground in the 2010 Copiapó mining accident since 5 August; their rescue is still expected to take several weeks. (BBC)
Japan says China has shipped drilling equipment to a disputed gas field amid a diplomatic row over the seizure of a Chinese fishing boat captain near the disputed Senkaku Islands. (AFP)(BBC)
The United States charges 2 married former nuclear contractors with trying to give away the country's nuclear secrets to Venezuela. (BBC)
Neutral. My immediate reaction to this is 'so what?'. Having since read the SIV article, I still don't see the significance. I'm no expert, so I won't oppose, but I don't see what relevance this has to human HIV & AIDS. Modest Geniustalk02:28, 18 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment well this is not important in the sense that it will lead to an immediate cure but extremely interesting still IMO. The story underscores the link between a highly lethal human virus and a widely prevalent relatively benign monkey virus. Also exemplifies Darwinian Natural selection theory. When a deadly virus kills off vulnerable hosts it will over the millenia select out individuals who are resistant to it so that eventually majority of the population becomes immune to the harmful effects of the virus ( as monkeys seem to have become to SIV). and also underscores the risks when viruses jump species. Swine influenza being a similar somewhat less lethal example. Plus once again shows to non believers how close we are to monkeys genetically ;-)--Wikireader41 (talk) 06:17, 18 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support, per above, and suggest changing "closely-related" to "a predeccesor," makes it clearer that this discovery has implications for both diseases. C628 (talk) 18:25, 18 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It's maybe my complete lack of knowledge in this area, but "predeccesor" makes it sound like SIV existed before, or evolved into, HIV. Is there a medical term we could link to to explain the word to idiots like me? TFOWR18:32, 18 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
"Predecessor" would be incorrect. The current SIV virus is not (and cannot be) the predecessor of the HIV that infected a few Califormians thirty years ago, and hence led to the discovery of both viruses. What the study shows is that the ancestor of the current SIV extends back 100-times further than previously thought. Th implication (and it's only that) is that the history of HIV is also much longer than the hundred years or so that the textbooks say at the moment. Physchim62(talk)18:39, 18 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
(ec) Posted. I used Physchim62's wording (with a bit of modification), as I do not know if the term "predeccesor" is a correct term for this case. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:40, 18 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think the current blurb is fine but would reiterate that the mainstream view is that HIV evolved from SIV, then infected some humans in Africa from where the pandemic spread ( and therefore It is accurate to say that SIV is a precursor/predecessor of HIV)[35][36]--Wikireader41 (talk) 19:17, 18 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think he is right. Predecessor is an accurate term. would suggest tweaking the blurb and replacing 'closely related to' with 'predecessor of'. The article Origin of AIDS goes into some details of this issue--Wikireader41 (talk) 01:57, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Chile is celebrating its bicentennial tomorrow. Great celebrations all over the country are taking place, while a four-days holiday (from Sep 17th until 20th) lets citizens celebrate it freely. I'm working on an article about the event on my userspace (User:Diego Grez/Bicentenario de Chile) and I thought it would be good to nominate it before someone beats me to it :) Cheers, Diego Grez (talk) 16:20, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree with that. Not every day a country celebrates its bicentennial. Christmas and Thanksgiving are not "as unique" as the celebration of the Bicentennial of Chile. --Diego Grez (talk) 16:50, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I agree it's not the same as the annual holidays. But I'd really suggest DYK in this case, the article will be ready by then, I suppose. I don't remember similar cases, otherwise... --Tone17:09, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose sorry Chile isn't important enough. I'd be prepared to consider supporting a centennial of a BRIIC or the US/EU/Japan. And maybe a millennial of more countries, but even then I don't think Chile is important enough :(. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 23:43, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support I recall how big Australia's bicentennial was - it was no anniversary, it became a historical moment in and of itself. Chile is a significant country and this is a significant milestone for more than OTD or DYK. --Mkativerata (talk) 00:34, 18 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Lol, are you kidding me? It's the main copper producer in the world. Produces the best wines and overall has the best beaches for surfing. What else do you want? Diego Grez (talk) 19:05, 18 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for the moment - instead it should be mentioned in OTD. If some major event happens then I'll reconsider, but simply celebrating an anniversary is not notable enough in itself. Modest Geniustalk02:26, 18 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Diego, can you provide some media sources for us? Mexico also celebrated its bicentennial the day before this. If the two celebrations have gained enough media attention, perhaps a combined entry might be justified. It's pretty historic in my book. Nightw15:59, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Possibly support...I haven't looked into how exactly big of news this is (how wide of coverage it is receiving), but with it being the longest running in the world, it seems worthy. If it has received wide coverage, consider this a full support. Ks0stm(T•C•G)15:36, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure as of now. If there was a well-written update in the article, I may support, but there seems to be no section about the soap opera's end. SpencerT♦C20:20, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note that I've deliberately avoided the word "murder" - at this stage it's clearly a killing, but we have no way of knowing if it was murder or manslaughter - it could, for example, be a burglary gone horribly wrong, etc etc. That's possibly open for debate: the BBC do use the term "murder" in their article's title, but their article is quoting a colleague of Dr. Farooq's. Holding off posting in case folk would prefer a different blurb... TFOWR15:38, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'd considered that, but it's a bit wordy and breaks the flow between "name" and "location". It's not clear from the article (I gather he founded the MQM's fore-runner, APMSO), but could we say "...exiled Muttahida Qaumi Movement founder Imran Farooq..."? Maybe keeping "Pakistani" between "exiled" and "MQM"? TFOWR16:04, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The United Nations Special Representative for Somalia, Augustine Mahinga, says the situation in the country remains "dire" and the AMISOM mission is "underfunded". (Al Jazeera)(AFP)
15 people are killed after mortar rounds are fired into the Somali government complex by Islamist fighters, triggering a counterattack. (AP)(CNN)(Manilla Bulletin)
American banks set a new record for the home repossession rate, with 1.2 million homes this year. Another 3.2 million American homes remain in foreclosure proceedings currently.(Reuters)
The World Trade Organization demands that the more than US$20bn in US government subsidies be withdrawn from Boeing. The EU is also appealing a decision that it was guilty of illegal subsidies. (BBC)
BP's first relief well intersects with its Gulf of MexicoMacondo well prior to pumping heavy mud and cement to seal permanently the oil reservoir adjacent to the well. (Yahoo News)
A storm in New York City kills one person and leaves 25,000 people without power. This includes a Tornado which touched down in Flushing and a Macroburst.(CNN)
Weak support. I don't think a papal visit is ITN-worthy. But here it is the first State visit to a country to which, because of its political and religious history, a papal visit there is far more significant than it would be to just about all other countries. My support is weakened by the fact that it is not a "first" - Benedict's predecessor visited in 1982. But it is the first State visit of a Pope to the UK - the former visit was merely "pastoral".--Mkativerata (talk) 04:00, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support it is his first state visit to the country with the second-largest amount of visitors to the English Wikipedia. His visit has already caused a lot of controversy and should be a headline around the world. --PlasmaTwa206:08, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Supportprovided it focuses on the significance of this visit to the UK, and points out that there is controversy surrounding it. Not just a blanket "Pope visits UK" headline. --DorsalAxe06:23, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose it's been nearly 200 years since the Catholic Relief Act 1829, a papal visit to Great Britain isn't really that big a deal. The Pope visits lots of places, the UK receives two or three state visits a year. The world will be substantially the same on Monday when HH is back in Rome as it was yesterday before he arrived in the UK. Physchim62(talk)13:17, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: *cough* Update? Blurb? Timer red! The article could do with being a standalone article, and at present talks about the "future" visit to the UK. My telly-box suggests that that ain't true...TFOWR19:36, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Lara, Tendulkar and Flintoff would be the only 3 notables in recent times to put on ITN. Almost single-handedly winning the Ashes in 2005 was no mean feat. He is also notable for the fact that he is known by some even outside of cricket
Oppose. Sure, he's one of the two or three most famous cricketers of the last decade, but this is of no interest to anyone who doesn't follow cricket (who will know about it already, since it's been coming for a while). Modest Geniustalk15:12, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Not that I'm aware of, but Ogaden National Liberation Front has details on previous attacks, and could be updated with this latest battle? However... how significant is this? It's an area on which I know nothing... TFOWR10:39, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
This story is covered in back-and-forth allegations, and the truth is far from being confirmed. Allegedly, up to 300 ONLF fighters were surrounded in Zeila by the Somaliland army. The official report from the Somaliland and Ethiopian governments is that over 100 of the rebels were killed. The rebels had, (again) allegedly, been training under the Eritrean army. The ONLF leaders have denied that any engagement took place, or that the contingent was even there to begin with. Since there aren't any independent reports available, it's not really obvious what actually occured. Nightw13:01, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Cisco Systems, the provider of computer networking products and services headquartered in San Jose, California, announced that it will break with a long-standing policy and issue a stock dividend during the current fiscal year. (Cisco Blogs)
A study funded by Pfizer, makers of the smoking cessation drug Varenicline, claims it would be financially wise for governments to fund smoking cessation treatments. (Reuters)
The head of Guinea's electoral commission who was convicted for electoral fraud, Ben Sekou Sylla, dies, ahead of a presidential run-off on Sunday. (Reuters)(BBC)
France passes a resolution banning full face veils after a 246-1 vote in the Senate. The law must still be reviewed by the Constitutional Council before coming into effect. (Ynetnews)
He's forfeited his Heisman Trophy from 2005 after being found ineligible for rules violation. Now I know sports awards don't get posted, but this is the first time a Heisman winner has lost his award (Even OJ Simpson got to keep his). And if you're wondering if it's "international enough" it's getting some press in Canada [40][41]~DCWe Can Work It Out22:22, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I suppose this is going to be real hard to explain to people who aren't from the U.S., but the Heisman Trophy is like no other individual award in sports -- it's much "bigger" in terms of cultural importance than any professional MVP award. Almost all U.S. sports fans could tell you the last Heisman trophy winner (Mark Ingram) and the only player to win it twice (Archie Griffin), and most knowledgeable football fans would be able to tell you if a given player won the Heisman when he was in college. Most would only be able to guess who won last year's NFL MVP. The Heisman Trophy has never been forfeited or taken away before, so this is a big deal. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:42, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I think we put too much sport on ITN as it is. Personally, I think it should be restricted to major multi-national tournaments. I can bear major national tournaments, but awards for individual players is a step too far in my opinion. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:55, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I understand the important of the Heisman and the repercussions, but I stand by my opinion that only sporting records (major) and championships should be posted. With the occasional extremely wide implicating steroids scandal. SpencerT♦C00:11, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
And a quote from CBS: "Reggie Bush returned his Heisman Trophy, and the nation rose as one and defiantly yawned. Oh yes it did, and don't argue. Bush returning the trophy was the final cynical act in a cynical tableau surrounding a cynical game." [42]. SpencerT♦C01:00, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, American here and it just isn't that important. And I don't buy the OJ reasoning anyway; he did nothing to make his college play ineligible for the trophy. And if it were truly a tremendous issue for the trophy, don't you think the article on the trophy would mention it? --Golbez (talk) 14:41, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. He simply made a gesture. He didn't lose the award. The Heisman Trust still recognizes him as the winner. Let's also point out that we don't mention the winners of the Heisman on ITN. --Smashvilletalk14:53, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The Huffington Post only mentioned the veil ban (mentioning that it wasn't clear if it was related). The BBC mentioned "increased security ... in part because of threats from al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb". I'm not seeing anything suggesting Corsican or Breton groups. TFOWR10:44, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support but only once it is law - it seems there are still one or two constitutional hurdles. Also the article title is inaccurate but I've made my views known about that on the article's talk page. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:36, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'm definitely in favor of having an ITN item on this, but I don't know enough about the French legislative process to know when the best time is to put it up. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:45, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I am not an expert on this but I think the constitutional judges have 10 days to block it as unconstitutional otherwise it goes to sarkozy who is expected to sign it--Wikireader41 (talk) 23:11, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think now is the time to put it up, now that it has finished the political process. I know we often wait for U.S. laws to be signed by the President, but the U.S. is a very different constitutional and political system. If it does get shot down by the constitutional court, that in itself would almost seem newsworthy. The law will not be enforced during the first six months after its promulgation in any case. Physchim62(talk)03:18, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair, It was passed 9 hours ago so reponses are kinda slim right now. We are getting them up as fast as we can find them. Being as this happened in the evening there I dont expect too many response for another until as the main responses from the Middle east and most of europe till 8-1200 UTC time. BB7 (talk) 01:40, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'm considering this, because the timer is red (30 hours). Anyone with more knowledge than me of French constitutional law want to pipe up? (I have no knowledge of French constitutional law, by the way...)TFOWR14:51, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Try with French senate passes a law banning the veils. Possibly including a link to the controversy article as well. --Tone15:13, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not entirely happy with this blurb, but throwing it out for suggestions/improvements:
To explain: saying "parliament" rather than "Senate" emphasizes that it has now been passed by both houses (the Chamber of Deputies passed the law last July); specifying "niqab" and "burqa" links to our more-than-respectable articles on the subjects and avoids the over-long bold link. In fact, the law bans any covering of the face in public, apart from a large number of non-religious exceptions (such as Santa Claus outfits!), but I don't think we are being misleading when we say it bans the niqab and the burqa. Physchim62(talk)16:11, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I'm from the U.S. and I've never heard of this American award or the National Constitutional Center. It's not like this is the Nobel Prize. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:47, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. It's just politics. It wasn't even awarded by the POTUS, but the one before last. As a general rule, I'd only support a nation's highest award—things like the MoH and the VC or their civilian equivalents. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:59, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
What article would we bold-link to? The tournament articles have no prose. Clijster's article is all unsourced in the relevant part (the 2010 section). --Mkativerata (talk) 19:54, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Abandoned newborn babyfound in Gulf Air flight trash can upon arrival at Manila airport. Huge press coverage. [46] [worldnews/asia/philippines/8000016/Newborn-baby-found-dumped-in-aircraft-lavatory-bin.html] [47]. --Sakitalk17:57, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)Oppose per HTD's reasoning. An isolated anecdote that just happened to get publicity. This particular baby cannot possibly be of international significance.--WaltCip (talk) 18:12, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The Economic Cooperation Framework Agreement (ECFA), an important trade pact, comes into force between China and Taiwan. Hundreds of thousands of people protested against it in Taiwan but it was unanimously approved by the island's parliament. (BBC)
2 French judges and 17 other legal experts land in Rwanda ahead of a week-long inquiry into the killing of PresidentJuvénal Habyarimana, whose plane with French crew on board was shot down in 1994. (BBC)
Taxpayer March on Washington (also known as the 9/12 Tea Party) takes place in Washington, D. C. According to various estimates ranging from 60,000 to more than 1 million people march from Freedom Plaza to the United States Capitol. The event coincided with other similar protests organized in various cities across the nation.The protesters rallied against what they consider big government, the dismantling of free market capitalism, abortion, and President Barack Obama's proposals on health care reform, taxation, and federal spending, among other issues. (BBC)(Los Angeles Times)
euronews - "One of France’s most famous and best loved film makers ... Considered a master of the mystery genre by some".
The Guardian - "The world of French cinema is in mourning for one of its greatest and most prolific directors".
The Daily Telegraph - "one of that group of critics-turned-film-makers who revolutionised French cinema in the late Fifties and came to be known as the 'new wave'".
Press TV - "Acclaimed French filmmaker and one of the founders of the Nouvelle Vague".
BBC News - ""With the death of Claude Chabrol, French cinema has lost one of its maestros", French Prime Minister Francois Fillon. A "great author and great film-maker", French President Nicolas Sarkozy.
France24 - "a master director famed for his dark portrayals of French provincial bourgeois life".
Support because his death is noticed around Europe, and as far apart as the United States, Canada, Iran and New Zealand, and because the coverage shows he was an important man who meets 2. The deceased was a very important figure in their field of expertise, and was recognised as such. --candle•wicke19:04, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
oppose having looked over his filmography I can't find any films that leap out to me as notable. Substantial body of work yes but nothing that indicates inherrint notability. I see no mention of Best or Director or simliar honors. Weaponbb7 (talk) 21:18, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support - clearly and unequivocably notable, that other editors don't know his films means nothing. He wasn't a Hollywood block buster director, but one of modern cinema's first movers.·Maunus·ƛ·12:13, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Maunus. The fact that he wasn't a blockbuster director is indication that his death has no international significance. This isn't a notability test. --Smashvilletalk19:05, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Significant referendum, more populated country than Kenya, but the article needs to have the actual results. ~AH1(TCU)17:20, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support highly notable, and the results became 'definite'. we should put it on the news. i suggest that title: constitutional amendments of Turkey approved through referendum,with %58 yes voters --78.167.203.151 (talk) 17:35, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Someone has to be a grown-up here. The event is certainly notable enough, but to put an article in this state on the main page would be detrimental to the project. Lampman (talk) 20:29, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I can't believe I have to reiterate this: "Candidates for ITN are evaluated on two main grounds: the quality of the updated content and the significance of the developments described in the updated content." So far most of the votes here have been brainless repetitions of some "notable event is notable" mantra. Lampman (talk) 21:04, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
In these cases I interpret the supports as "in principle" supports. No sane admin is going to post this item with the article in this state, regardless of how many supports there are. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:09, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This referendum has certain elements which will decide whether Turkey, arguably the most secular of all Muslim majority countries stays secular or goes down a more Islamist path. As such its importance is hard to understate. The article does need to be improved I agree.--Wikireader41 (talk) 21:52, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
So far, no-one has argued against the notability of the event. If every person leaving a comment here had added a reliable source to the article, we would have been close to ITN level. Lampman (talk) 22:10, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Still oppose. I and others have been working hard to add RS's to the article, but a quick read will convince you that it's still horribly pro-Erdoğan POV. Lampman (talk) 22:23, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Has anybody thought of updating or writing another article? There's no question this has consensus, but we need a reasonable article. What such an article would be,a side from the obvious, I don't know, but ITN standards aren't picky about where we have an update, as long as there is one that's supported by a reasonable article. The article is now a hell of a lot better than when I last looked, but it's still covered in {{fact}} tags for some pretty crucial points. If they were addressed, I would consider posting it. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:15, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
So, what is the situation with this nomination? The article is updated and expanded, there are just two sections with tags. Is anyone planning to work on it or should we consider posting it as it is? --Tone14:25, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
IMO it is postable. once it is on the main page it should attract more editors who will improve it further ( hopefully). isnt that one of the reasons we have ITN ?--Wikireader41 (talk) 15:13, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I previously nominated this when the tournament was "statistically won" by the All Blacks (they had enough points with one game to go), but the article wasn't deemed to be updated enough at the time. The final game has been played today though and the article has been updated and sourced, and this is a reoccurring event that should be put up per WP:ITNSPORTS. Thanks, Matty (talk) 05:37, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The series finished last night, that's why it's "in the news". As for the international aspect, I guess that's your opinion. You'll find rugby union is more popular than tennis and basketball in a lot of the world outside of the United States. The Tri Nations series is in WP:ITNSPORTS anyway. Matty (talk) 06:12, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The other sports are my concern, as well. Is there any guidance on the number of sports items in ITN? I'm thinking we need a range of different items, not three sports one after each other, but hey! it's Sunday, and statistical anomalies happen, and sport makes a pleasant change from "X killed in a bombing in Y", etc... TFOWR14:08, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies, you're quite right. "September" isn't an option in the drop-down list, but that's no excuse for me not realising that "9" does not equal "7". TFOWR15:00, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, by all means, consult the Spanish and Italian versions to get a read on the popularity of this story amongst our readership. Nightw16:00, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I really try hard to avoid !voting at ITNC but Night_w is absolutely correct: Rugby Union is the national sport of South Africa and New Zealand, and a huge sport in Australia, too. Aside from the Tri-Nations being the premier sporting event in the Southern Hemisphere, rugby union is big in Western Europe (see Six Nations Championship) and the Tri-Nations has obvious interest as a result. Even the United States gets in on the act, with 50,000 "regular" players plus 30,000 high-school players, and 570 clubs. This item has international appeal, and would help counteract the usual claims of WP:BIAS. TFOWR13:34, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Ready to post. Just a question, would it be better to mention which countries participated with names? All Blacks is obvious for a person familiar with rugby but confusing for others. --Tone13:39, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) I'd say so. Note that both the AB's and the Wallabies's articles follow the "Xian national rugby union team" convention, so I'd suggest the following modification of Matty's blurb:
I've changed "against" to "after beating" as I felt that "against" made it sound like the Tri-Nations was a two-country affair. Hopefully my revised version makes clear that NZ/Australia was simply the final game. TFOWR13:49, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support regardless of outcome. But it will be an interesting discussion if the US wins. I expect such arguments as "its not updated enough" (after a sufficient update, see Super Bowl XLIV discussion). Or how about "LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, and Larry Bird didn't play so who cares?" And of course, "we have the US Open, an American Medal of Honor winner and an American film" ~DCWe Can Work It Out15:37, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know -- this isn't being followed all that closely in the U.S. (the likely winner), where it's receiving far less attention than the opening of the football season, the U.S. tennis open and the baseball playoff races. The NBA and NCAA championships are considered far bigger deals to most basketball fans. I'd rather leave this out and put in the NCAA finals in April. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 16:07, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Is that another personal attack or is that the best way you can characterize my comment? I don't know about where you live, but in the U.S., March Madness is one of the biggest sports events of the year, while I'm guessing most American sports fans haven't even heard of FIBA. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:04, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Why should it be always for the American fans? Probably more Europeans watched this than the Six Nations Championship, for example. For Europeans, this seems to be the more popular tournament, while for Americans, it's the Olympics (and that wasn't added. lol). –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 03:28, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
A doctor throws a shoe at the prime minister and is promptly arrested and locked up with two bystanders. They are later released unharmed. (The Times of India)(CNN)
At least 8 police officers are killed and several others are wounded in San Miguel, Putumayo, Colombia, near its border with Ecuador. 2 of the perpetrators are then killed in the jungle. (BBC)
Police in Somalia say they have foiled an attack by Islamist militants against the seaport in the capital Mogadishu. (Reuters)(Sify)
Thousands of Afghans protest in Badakhshan province over U.S. plans to hold an "International Burn-a-Koran Day", despite its cancellation. (Reuters)
Hundreds of Americans engage in heated competing demonstrations in New York City, blocking streets and being overseen by mounted police and dog units. (BBC)
On top of the news today are the related events for the 9/11 attacks. The ninth anniversary, coincidentally falling at the end of Ramadan in the celebration of Eid and also the Koran controversy that has not got to the top or near the top of news outlets in a heck of a lot of countries and also elicited responses from various sources both government and non-government, liberal and conservative. Think its a good time to add them all now. I've updated September_11_attacks#Anniversary_reactions. (Lihaas (talk) 12:41, 11 September 2010 (UTC));[reply]
Support; first to survive his heroic deed in far too long. (For the record, I corrected a spelling mistake in your post, Tom, in case this goes up and the posting admin just cuts and pastes your blurb.) Courcelles02:54, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: These are awarded quite frequently. The only possibly noteworthy aspect here is that the recipient is currently alive. The last medal was awarded posthumously to a Jared C. Monti in September 2009. The next will be awarded posthumously to a Robert James Miller on 6 October this year. Nightw07:05, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
According to Medal of Honor (a featured article) only 8 posthumous awards have been given out for actions occurring after the end of the Vietnam war. Plus, he's the first living recipient since then. ~DCLet's Vent07:14, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, 4 in the Iraq War, and 4 in the War in Afghanistan; what's your point? Even with the "living" qualifier in mind, in 2009, Mark Donaldson was the first Australian (living or otherwise) to receive the Victoria Cross in 40 years. In 2007, Willie Apiata was the first New Zealand (living or otherwise) to receive the Victoria Cros since the Second World War, a period of over 60 years. There have been none since them. Were either of these deemed ITN worthy? No. Nightw07:27, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
But maybe they should have been posted, its not reasonable to judge stuff from being posted entirely on past actions. In this case the former didn't seem to get enough international coverage, and the latter wasn't nominated. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:34, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There's nothing on the BBC website about this 1. Nothing on the Sydney Morning Herald2. Nothing on the Toronto Star3. Nothing on the New Zealand Herald4. Nothing on the Times of India5. Nothing on the Times of South Africa6. Seems like extremely domestic news to me. The simple fact that this guy is alive does not make him any more noteworthy than the other recent recipients. Will Robert Miller's award be listed in October? Not likely. We can't post an award every time it happens. Nightw07:56, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Support its only been awarded 9 times since Vietnam, 8 of which have been posthumous. The Victoria Cross has only been awarded 13 times in the UK and Australia since WW2. I can't find a military equivalent but for example in India the civilian Bharat Ratna has only been awarded 41 times since 1947. We could post all of these kind of things for all the English speaking countries - given an appropriate article update. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:23, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Just one niggling issue (perhaps just an issue with the suggested blurb at the top) - he hasn't been awarded it yet, it has only been announced. --Mkativerata (talk) 08:06, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Posted since there is a firm consensus in support. Also it will be good to finally get Gillard's picture off the page (her third appearance in three months!) and Christchurch is still hanging around after more than a week. The article is well enough updated. --Mkativerata (talk) 08:11, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose (I know its too late) This isn't news outside of one particular country and it makes wikipedia look parochial. Most of the world couldn't care less. This isn't the American wikipedia. ·Maunus·ƛ·21:44, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I don't really care too much about this entry but want to point out that not all ITN entries have to be of interest to everyone -- many of our readers are American, and they might be interested in this. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:55, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. To be honest, User NightW sums up the argument nicely above. I definitely do not dismiss any American story as evidence of systemic bias, as I supported the posting of Ted Kennedy's death. But once in a while you run into a story on the Wikipedia main page that is so blatantly non-notable compared to other events that you have to come in and make a comment opposing it even though it's been posted. It just happens to be that most of these stories are American. Please, take it off. Colipon+(Talk) 18:58, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comments/question: I understand the argument that we should wait until the medal is presented, but some are arguing that this is a domestic matter of no interest to most of the world (and one for which we've provided special treatment to the United States).
But when a British soldier became the first living Victoria Cross recipient in 36 years, an item was included without controversy. (I checked the history of every relevant talk page to make sure.) What is the material difference between that and the first living Medal of Honor recipient in 39 years? —David Levy02:27, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see why it's considered "more notable" if the recipient is alive. And for the record, that British soldier was also the first recipient of the VC, alive or otherwise, in over 20 years. Whereas, as I stated above, the Medal of Honor was awarded to another posthumously just over a year ago, and will be awarded to yet another posthumously next month. But the fact that they're deceased somehow makes them "less notable"? Nightw02:41, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Firstly, let me be clear in stating that this isn't a matter of human worth or the value of these individuals' contributions. The deceased soldiers made the ultimate sacrifice.
But that's precisely why their [posthumous] receipt of the Medal of Honor, while equally indicative of valor, is more common. A non-posthumous presentation of the medal has not occurred in nearly four decades, so it evokes greater interest among readers. —David Levy03:14, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I get that. But insofaras world news goes, it's not really a big deal. As you'll see from the above discussion, hardly any of the major media sources in English speaking countries covered the story at all. Nightw03:33, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
...apart from those in the United States, whose residents (composing a large percentage of the site's readers) are to be punished for inhabiting a single nation instead of a union of smaller nations. —David Levy03:53, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Details of 300 cases of sexual abuse, mainly on minors, allegedly perpetrated by Belgium's Roman Catholic clergy are released by Church investigator Peter Adriaenssens. 13 are found to have committed suicide. (BBC)
An alleged suicide bomber is detained after "suicide" blast at hotel in Copenhagen, Denmark. (BBC)
PastorTerry Jones of the Dove World Outreach Center agrees to call off the Koran burning in return for the Park51 community center being relocated, though those associated with Park51 have stated no such agreement exists. (BBC), (MSNBC)
PastorTerry Jones later reassesses his position after he claimed that he received incorrect information that the Park51 community center would be relocated. (CNN), (The Wall Street Journal)
weak support its hard to measure the impact, I have no TV (by principal) and always regret it when something like this happens. What is CNN/Fox/Msnbc showing right now? Are they still broadcasting it?Weaponbb7 (talk) 19:52, 10 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, seems awfully local, not a particularly high death toll. Sort of comparable to the occasional shootings that happen in the US in terms of ITN-worthiness, and those are usually rejected. C628 (talk) 22:28, 10 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It's become accepted practice, it seems, to nominate things for ITN before there's an article. I guess to announce that an article needs to be made? --Golbez (talk) 17:03, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose, My grandfather died due his impaired judgement from Alzheimer's disease, so i am happy to here any progress in the area but it strikes me as "may hold off Alzheimer's disease" is not enough to worth of ITN. Weaponbb7 (talk) 12:44, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support, it was on the 5 o'clock news here in Australia. A good news story, esp. since that box is looking pretty red. Nightw07:06, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
OK, based on the timer now claiming "Last updated: 2 days ago" I'm going to run with this in the next hour or so unless there's a sudden influx of objections. I'm suggesting a modification to the blurb, thus:
I'm not sure how it's really a story; she still stands to be executed by other means. She might not be stoned to death for adultery, but she might be hanged to death for murder. --Golbez (talk) 17:17, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Late Support, given the amount of time without an update, the amount of news coverage around this, and the unusual response of Iran to bow to international pressure. C628 (talk) 18:31, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There is an explosive upsurge of condemnations of this event by global leaders: the Vatican, Ban Ki-moon, Hillary Clinton, Angela Merkel in the last 24 hours alone. With three more days until the book burning is to take place I can only see this story moving in one direction. __meco (talk) 21:42, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Only if something massive happens in retaliation, which I doubt. This is so much of a non-issue that I'm really disappointed that world leaders have given it so much attention. If they hadn't said jack, no one would care. --Golbez (talk) 21:45, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
*sigh* Again we have an editor who opines on what should be featured based on how the world ought to react to a would-be non-event simply blocking out the fact that the world is rising up in uproar. This is becoming a trend. This is no way to administer In The News... __meco (talk) 21:50, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure what your statement here is; "to a would-be non-event"? Yes, it's a non-event unless an event happens. The burning of a book is not typically an event. A bombing in retaliation is an event, but people opining about a non-event is, in itself, a non-event. --Golbez (talk) 21:53, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Put another way, the story some tim ago was not the cartoons of Muhammad - it was the violent reaction to them. It is premature to consider putting this up unless there's an actual reaction to it. Burning a commonly available item is not really ITN worthy, no matter how many news sources and famous people pipe up about it. --Golbez (talk) 21:58, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose and article should be nuked as well. Since when did the actions of a bunch of bigots in Florida become an "International Burna a Koan Day"? The idea is almost as pathetic as the act itself. Physchim62(talk)22:05, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Please, I wish people would stop trying to apply WP behavior guidelines such as BEANS, DFTT, DENY, etc. to the subjects of our articles. Real world notability is real world notability. The Hero of This Nation (talk) 01:22, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Just because some highly paid people of apparent importance have work schedules so light that they can take the time to speak out against such a non-event as this doesn't mean said non-event is notable. --Golbez (talk) 02:12, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose for now. if however any violent retaliation occurs I could be persuaded to change my mind. No matter how crazy this event is a violent reaction would be unacceptable behavior IMO.--Wikireader41 (talk) 22:40, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale is convincing; opposition based on desire to deny publicity is less so. The amount of attention this is getting worldwide is undeniable. However I feel it does not belong on ITN until after it has occurred and we see how people have reacted. The Hero of This Nation (talk) 01:20, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Event is obviously "a story of international importance or interest" [49]. However, the blurb will look pretty boring at the moment, "...world leaders condemn FL church's plan to burn a Quran...", so I say Wait till the actual event, after which it will definitely be notable (even if, say, the event is cancelled). SPattalk01:49, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Cancellation of the event would not be notable in the slightest. "Preacher says he won't burn Qu'ran on Saturday" is not really encyclopedic material. I can see scenarios where the event could become notable, but they haven't happened yet (and, as they would almost inevitably result in significant loss of human life, I hope they don't). Physchim62(talk)02:14, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
oppose this making on ITN would only have shock value to it. not much encyclopedic value. all these made up days like lets draw muhamad or lets burn qu'ran are quite stupid and really should not be featured on Main page unless someone like Obama personally does it himself on TV. which causes international panic or smth -- Ashish-g5502:26, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
What the hell? This is a huge story in the international press. The coverage is unjustified for this little man but we can not decide what is and is not a major international story, to ignore it in order to avoid controversy is censorship. This has been responded to by senior politicians, religious figures, senior military, countries are seeking to block coverage of it. It is incredible people are trying to suggest this should not be mentioned on the main page. The media has been banging on about it for the past 24 hours. BritishWatcher (talk) 09:53, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Responded to. Seeking to. Words. Nothing more. Get back to me when there's an actual action; violence, certainly, or maybe even some Elian-esque raid to stop the eeevil church from doing something that isn't illegal (apart from the fine for having a fire in their county). --Golbez (talk) 13:42, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support - this is an incredibly notable international event (i agree that it shouldnt be, But it is). Of course it should be added to ITN. Although it should only be added once the silly deletion attempt of the article has failed. BritishWatcher (talk) 09:57, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
People condemn an awful lot of stupid plans, which doesn't always make those plans significant; indeed, there's no end of cases of plans so trivial they didn't even exist being publicly condemned at great length for a couple of days! I don't see much reason to give this more publicity; it's one person being a dick by making a small but puerile gesture, and hoping people jump in response. Shimgray | talk | 12:07, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
If you have updated yourself on the international news coverage of this issue you will also have ascertained that the whole world is indeed jumping. That is notable. Then it matters less why they are jumping. __meco (talk) 12:55, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
No, it means a lot of highly paid people are overpaid and underworked. You haven't even proposed a blurb; "Many people say that a group of people shouldn't damage its property"? --Golbez (talk) 13:42, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Now you are just talking garbage. So now the lack of a proposed nlurb is also an argument against this story reaching ITN? Have you no filters between what enters you mind and what comes out? __meco (talk) 13:50, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Well that's twice you've insulted me, to zero times me insulting you, but whatever makes you feel better about nominating this. And no, a blurb is not required to get it put up - but it helps. No, the argument against it reaching ITN is that it's a non-event, and that I choose not to publish it. --Golbez (talk) 14:10, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Israel begins military preparations in order to intercept a 20-ship flotilla due to set sail towards the Gaza Strip and break the Israeli blockade. A wide range of plans are being considered, including the possibility of stopping the flotilla far out at sea due to its sheer size. (Hurriyet)
Around 85 fires break out in the U.S. city of Detroit, Michigan, with at least 20 homes destroyed. Winds of 40 to 50 mph cause 113,000 customers to lose electricity. (ABC News America)(WISN)
I'm not sure if an article exists, but the ongoing strikes in Britain and France have been getting a fair amount of press here in America. I'm fairly certain we put the Greek strikes earlier this year on ITN. ~DCLet's Vent20:26, 7 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
strong oppose The election result already went up, we cant post it everytime something happens. At any rate, in other cases we havent put up govt. formation if the election results were out.(Lihaas (talk) 05:16, 7 September 2010 (UTC));[reply]
Just to make sure that things are still on an even keel, Lihaas is not accusing anyone of being a hypocrite, but is instead bringing attention towards what may be a hypocritical act (e.g. ad actum vs. ad hominem).--WaltCip (talk) 12:40, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support — I only came here because I was surprised that it wasn't up already. There is a precedent with the UK election and, to be honest, if this were anything to do with US politics there is no doubt that this would be already up. Jenks24 (talk) 15:04, 7 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Actually the "update" has been on the page (not the leded) pretty much from the moment it happened. It's just in a sensible place and not overdone with recentism. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:47, 7 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Given that according to that article the record will be broken again in October - and then to the smallest ever. I Oppose until October :). -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:21, 6 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral I probably would've supported if he was assassinated, but he had cancer. Either way, the article needs a major re-write (his cause of death isn't mentioned anywhere, amongst other issues). ~DCLet's Vent16:01, 6 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
supportwhen results are known elections/referendums for ITN (Kenya's constitution was recently posted, if memory serves). This is bigger, its a failure and a government will fall..(Lihaas (talk) 09:37, 6 September 2010 (UTC));[reply]
A Palestinian Authority spokesman says that Iran has no standing to criticize them for relaunching direct talks with Israel while Iran "represses their people," after the Iranian foreign minister says those negotiating with Israel are "betraying their nations." (Jerusalem Post)
Law and crime
Police in El Salvador discover barrels containing US$9 million in suspected drug money. (BBC)(AP)
It appears the historic quarter is. OK then weak support assuming this church is in the historic quarter of the city - as the UNESCO website is down at the moment I can't check whether it is or not. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 15:36, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, I moved this up from the Sep. 3 section, since it was nominated on the 5th. Anyone disagrees, feel free to revert. C628 (talk) 16:20, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
week support very sad Weaponbb7 (talk) 17:27, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. While very sad, it is only one building within the WHS historic quarter, and one which does not seem to receive much attention. Traffic stats to the article show only 150 hits in the last two days; none from the days immediately following the event, and none at all from the month of August. If it was a slow news day, maybe... Nightw08:41, 7 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
This has been in the news a lot the last few days. Two bank officials resigned at the beginning of the week after risky loans to Karzai's associates and risky investments in Dubai real estate. Since then Afghan's central bank has considered a bailout to keep the bank afloat and the nascent financial system healthy. I can finish updating the article, but is this ITN worthy? Given the international interest in Afghanistan's development, I think so.--Chaser (talk) 01:25, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Possibly, i may consider a weak support. BUT the whole background (which would be better as an history section or something of the sort (perhaps see other such articles)) section is unreferenced and appears as WP:OR. The latest stuff seems sourced well, but then it would be WP:Recentism. Also the lead can be cut short on an article so small.Lihaas (talk) 10:56, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose failing banks are really not that newsworthy in the middle of recession even if they happen in one of the poorest countries in the world.--Wikireader41 (talk) 14:58, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Saturn and Sream awards, for example, also are not published in the ITN. I guess, it's because of relatively low relevance... Crnorizec (talk) 13:13, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The Saturn Award and the Scream Awards are for film only. Plus, I'm not sure how that's an argument. It's like saying that because we don't post the Golden Globes that we shouldn't post the Oscars. Anyway, in support, I would argue that the Hugos are the most presgigious SF/Fantasy awards for film or literature (though admittedly the only evidence I have is a google search for most prestigious science fiction award). If we go by WP:ITNR, we don't post many awards for literature at all (as opposed to sports champions of every conceivable form of competition). They are international awards, though generally limited to English Language works. Also, I would argue that if we look at some of the winners of the Hugos, such as JK Rowling or Arthur C. Clarke, the awards are quite relavent to modern culture.--Johnsemlak (talk) 13:40, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support when updated. Not only is the story of international significance - it has actual personal relevance for many, because Hugo award winners usually make for good reading. Wnt (talk) 22:37, 6 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Twice in god knows how many decades. This fact does not make it any less significant. I think even the IRA did it twice before finaly doing exactly what has happened here, in a conflict also spanning decades. Like I said, if 'terrorism' is a significant topic for ITN, then the signficance of an announcement like will always piss all over the routine bomb notifications we always post no questions asked, no matter how temporary or uncertain it appears to be. MickMacNee (talk) 15:17, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. This is possibly quite big news, but I think we need to wait for a response from the Spanish government before posting. The last ETA "permanent ceasefire" ended after only 8 months in December 2006 with the Barajas Airport bombing, so a certain scepticism is to be expected. Physchim62(talk)19:09, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The Spanish press (at least in their online versions) treat this as a significant announcement: top story on the websites of all the major newspapers (although the "spin" varies according to the political viewpoint of the newspaper concerned!) Physchim62(talk)00:43, 6 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think their print editions will provide a better indication as to how historic this is -- whether they go for the 72-point monster headline or see it as just an ordinary biggest story of the day. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:27, 6 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Here are today's headlines from the Spanish press print editions:
La Vanguardia: "Insufficient truce"
Diario de Burgos, Diario de Sevilla: "The government and opposition consider ETA's ceasefire announcement 'insufficient'"
Diario de Cadiz, Granada Hoy, Malaga Hoy: "ETA doesn't convince anyone with its new truce announcement"
El Punt: "Hope and misgivings after (?) new ceasefire from ETA"
El Pais: "'Insufficient' cease fire from ETA"
The Spanish seem to be of the belief that this ceasefire is not a ground-breaking initiative. In retrospect, we might have waited until the front pages became available to make our decision on this item. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 20:42, 6 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
A study published in the journal Cell reports the discovery that the cerebral cortex of mammals shares a common evolutionary origin with mushroom bodies, brain structures involved in learning and memory in insects and other invertebrates. (Science Daily)
A study published in the journal Cell reports the discovery that the cerebral cortex of mammals shares a common evolutionary origin with mushroom bodies, brain structures involved in learning and memory in insects and other invertebrates.Science Daily. Very important discovery, will have many ramifications. Looie496 (talk) 22:36, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
considering a low amount of medical news items on ITN this would be good but someone who knows this stuff would be better to comment here. i dont see anything related to this in the article yet. it would need to describe the discovery and why its important at the least. -- Ashish-g5523:04, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose cant really see how this is of any interest/importance other than to a handful of academics. this is not a medical advance but just an interesting ( to some) biological discovery which will likely have zero practical implications. we have all evolved from a common ancestor and so all organisms share a lot of common things especially at a molecular level.--Wikireader41 (talk) 23:31, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Lots of people still believe the old fairy tale about the "reptile brain" and such. This shows that the basic organization of the brain is very old and very widely shared, which is most curious. But we should look it over and add in many details. Wnt (talk) 22:39, 6 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Cond. Support Wasn't just any old plane crash. It was a Boeing 747, and essentially the largest aircraft to crash this year. Not some old 747, but one of the newest. Plus, it's UPS, not some insignificant cargo carrier. This just needs a new blurb to highlight the carrier and aircraft. NagamasaAzai (talk) 15:07, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Co nom. Decided to improve the very rubbish article Simion created after I created the Wikinews article. There was some damage in Christchurch, New Zealand. Waiting for more reports. The earthquake just happened 2 hours ago :) Diego Grez (talk) 19:06, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Earl has forced the evacuation of thousands of people and has affected multiple countries. The significance of this earthquake has yet to be established. The nomination and the creation of the article were premature. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Your point? We don't exactly link to external sites in ITN. If you want to use those to improve the article, by all means, go for it, but posting them here means nothing. --Golbez (talk) 21:12, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support -- Large earthquake in an area with a high concentration of English Wikipedia users. Lots of news coverage and reader interest. The article will certainly get filled out as more information becomes available. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:59, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Now I think about it, weak support since it's serious enough for a state of emergency to be declared. However, I oppose until the references are formatted and the Casualties and damages section is improved and expanded. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:39, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support yes these are regular but they are still significant. We shouldn't desensitise ITN to the carnage in Pakistan just because it is common. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:37, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I understand and sympathize with that argument, but I think we have to take emotions out of the ITN process. There has to come a point where tragic events of a certain type in a certain place lose so much news value as to make them inappropriate for ITN. The death of 73 people (the current count according to List of terrorist incidents in Pakistan) in Stalingrad in 1942-43 would not have made a good ITN item had Wikipedia been around then. That said, 73 people is a huge terrorist incident. On the other hand, there have been at least three bombings in Pakistan with even more deaths this year. I'll say support once a quality article exists -- but I think we have to think twice the next time there is a bombing in Pakistan with "only" 20 or 30 deaths. Yes, I know, it's very disturbing to talk like this, but this is what you have to do when choosing news items. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:55, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Aside from the quality of articles, which must be acceptable, we definitely need to establish guidelines for deadly events in ITN: how is the death of 59 people in Pakistan less significant than a Slovak bus crash with 11 victims? What makes the news of a deadly event worth noting in ITN: the bizarre, the number of victims, the technology involved (planes, ships, bombs,...) the rarity of the event, or all of the above, and to what extent? I see arguments on this subject here every day, and I don't see some clear criteria. Crnorizec (talk) 01:30, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support. That is quite a lot of people and it happened at a rally on a special day of Ramadan. According to the Quetta article it is "the largest city and the provincial capital of Balochistan" which is itself "the largest province by area of Pakistan, constituting approximately 48% of the total area of Pakistan". Very difficult to say that this is a small occurrence. --candle•wicke02:17, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Quds Day is not a special day of Ramadan, the reasons for it are only 62 years old, and the day in celebration is 30 (or less)
Support this seems like a reasonable number of deaths so should be posted. However given these bombings happen in Pakistan so regularly we need to be more careful about what we post in future. With regards to the Slovak bus crash, bus crashes with 11 victims are much rarer in Europe than in much of the world so events like that are more notable. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 11:55, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment as the person who nominates most of these here is my take on it. These are ITN worthy as A. They are happening in one of the largest countries of the world and sole Islamic nuclear power, currently which is considered a front line state in the fight against militant Islam ( perhaps the most important battle of our lifetimes). B. each of these events slowly but surely is pushing the country towards chaos, anarchy and possible civil war, the implications of which would very likely be global ( including nukes landing up in the hands of some very nasty people). C USA and the west has significant amount of blood and treasure invested in preventing these kind of events from happening and NATO forces are also targeted by the same people. D. Now with thousands of foreign aid workers from all over in the country and billions of dollars of aid being poured into Pakistan I feel lot of people from around the world are interested in whats happening in Pakistan. Having said that I personally would never nominate an event with less than 100 casualties ( deaths + injuries). It would be good to have some consensus guidelines.--Wikireader41 (talk) 21:14, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Re: Crnorizec's question -- I've brought this up on the discussion page before. I think instead of trying to make our own judgments as to how many Pakistani deaths equals how many Slovak deaths, we should ask: 1) What does the article or relevant Wikipedia page look like? 2) How much interest is there in the event among our readers? and 3) How much play is this story getting in the world's media? The Quetta bombings may be just as tragic as the Oklahoma City bombing, but the latter will probably always have a far superior article. Yes, that's part of the systemic bias of Wikipedia, but as Wikipedia:FAQ/Main Page says, "The Main Page reflects the bias of Wikipedia as a whole." The world isn't fair. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:08, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
"The case is one of the longest-running in Portuguese history, lasting more than five years, with testimony from more than 800 witnesses and experts." [59][60] The scandal involved several prominent men, including TV presenter Carlos Cruz, former Casa Pia governor Manuel Abrantes, and former UNESCO ambassador Jorge Ritto. The article has to be updated though. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:43, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
One of the largest trials in Portuguese history. The abuse allegations span more than 30 years and 100s of children though the charges brought to trial only cover the late 1990s-early 2000s. The convicted parties include a former diplomat and a television personality. Not exactly a run-of-the-mill case. Dragons flight (talk) 17:58, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, I am a bit shocked. So those conspiracy theorists' claim that pedophile rings involving high-profile men exist was not entirely fictional. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:30, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
10 civilians are killed and 2 others are wounded after being struck by NATO during an election campaign in Rostaq, Afghanistan. Originally, a spokesman had said a "precision air strike" had hit a militant vehicle. (BBC)(Reuters)
Direct talks between Israeli PM Netanyahu and Palestinian leader Abbas started at the US State Department. First time in two years they've talked to eachother. ~DCLet's Vent16:22, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I've updated the article to include the needed information, as the storm hit near Seoul. The storm's track is comparable to that of Prapiroon in 2000, killing 46 and leaving $6 billion in damage, but essentially no other typhoons in the past 65 years have come this close to Seoul according to Wikipedia's storm tracks. I'd wait for more updated information, but another depression is forming that is forecast to take the exact same track. ~AH1(TCU)15:14, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The update is very minor at the moment. One sentence about Seoul. Probably, if this typhoon is that notable, it should have a separate article, as do the cyclones. --Tone18:48, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There is an article and has been for a couple of days at Typhoon Kompasu (2010). Im working to update it but i keep getting called away to deal with other things.Jason Rees (talk) 14:23, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Come on! two typhoons/tornadoes one after the other? Can the two be merged instead? I see no reason not to put a merged, trimmed down version of the two blurbs instead. Nergaal (talk) 21:37, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
proposed blurb: Typhoon Kompasu (pictured) makes landfall in South Korea, becoming the strongest typhoon to affect Seoul in fifteen years, while 30,000 people in North Carolina, United States, are evacuated ahead of Hurricane Earl.Nergaal (talk) 21:40, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Because when there were natural disasters (i.e. landslide and flooding) in two different countries, they were posted in the same blurb. Why take 2 of the 5/6 slots in the ITN for two identical phenomena? Nergaal (talk) 22:14, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
This is not flooding in bordering countries, so the merger makes no sense, but the evacuation of the NC islands is a false alarm two days old. Take Earl down.μηδείς (talk) 05:41, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Premature nomination; this is only in the headlines by virtue of the Deepwater Horizon spill. I'll reconsider if there's some new development, but right now, this isn't even worthy of an article, never mind an ITN slot. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Tentative support - It's certainly national news at the moment, and globally relevant considering how widespread the Discovery brand is. You'd be hard-pressed to find a en.wiki reader who doesn't know what the Discovery Channel is. How significant it is in the long run will depend on the outcome. KafzielComplaint Department19:43, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I would agree that we should wait to see how this plays out. If (as I hope) the perp gives up, this isn't much of a story, but if there is major damage or death it would merit speedy ITN inclusion, in my view. Jusdafax20:19, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose until more is known. Considering it's a network known for reality programming and not CBS, NBC, ABC or some other network with a news outlet, this could easily be a simple domestic dispute gone awry. --Smashvilletalk20:51, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Call me crazy, but it seems like the main criterion for inclusion in "In the News" should be whether or not it is in the news. And this is in the news, around the world: It's on Euronews, BBC, Times India, you name it, because everyone knows what Discovery is. Maybe we should change the title of this section to "Really important events of long-lasting significance in which at least several people died violently" to reflect the general consensus of ITN/C on stories like this. KafzielComplaint Department21:58, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Can't speak for everyone, but my general criteria is that the event has significant consequences, rather like you'd expect for any WP article. That way it's not so much your average news ticker, but is something that can highlight events with significant consequences, which is what the encyclopedia is best at, rather than being a flood of sensationalism, which is what a lot of the news is nowadays. C628 (talk) 22:04, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
@Kafziel if you want to just read everything thats in the news then why dont you go read a news paper? Wikipeida's ITN section is not a news ticker, this is a global encyclopedia and items are added according to that. Currently one item on ITN caused any deaths so i dont really know what you are complaining about. wth do u want us to do... add every news event that happens in entire world? -- Ashish-g5523:49, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to oppose here unless something more emerges. I would have opposed had the ending been different unless there was a high death toll or massive damage or notable people/buildings affected. This is just tabloid fodder, really. It will be out of the headlines in a day or two at most. It's not ITN's job to report everything in the papers, its purpose is to highlight encyclopaedic topics related to a current event. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
btw oppose. a moron walks into a building with a gun and gets shot. except the fact that building is owned by discovery channel there is nothing in this story. i dont even think it deserves an article. -- Ashish-g5501:20, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. This incident seems to be about a Discovery Channel viewer advocating a form of eugenics as a solution to environmental issues and using violence to promote it. This is a very unusual story, but unfortunately similar incidents have occurred before related to this issue that didn't get as much media attention. ~AH1(TCU)15:23, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment triple suicide bombings are fortunately rare even in Pakistan. this is the first major attack since the floods and the influx of foreign aid workers.--Wikireader41 (talk) 22:16, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support Yet another attack in the country's cultural capital; blasts in Lahore are not usual or frequent compared to the volatile northwest. Mar4d (talk) 08:08, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Changing vote to oppose sorry but these things seem to be endless and there is a much more deadly one also against Shia's in the "ITN queue". -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 11:58, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support. This wouldn't be a good enough dinosaur story for me in a normal period, but we're still weak on news. Article seems OK in the circumstances, as it has the primary reference. Here's BBC coverage of the find. Physchim62(talk)02:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Administrator noteGetting down to brass tacks, the update is four sentences long, with two citations, both of which are bare URL's. This needs work/expansion/more sources before going up, which it has support to do. Courcelles 21:15, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Nightw 15:32, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Done TFOWR 08:27, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Administrator note I'm not entirely happy with the update. There's plenty on the opinion polls, but very little on the result itself. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:32, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
