User talk:Zigzig20s/Archive 12

Nomination of The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Randykitty (talk) 10:46, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

• Randykitty, I believe that the journal is notable enough. Zigzig, you told me to leave you alone, but you know, you frequently say one thing but mean another. I think we can restore this and make it work. Randy, if it's OK with you I'll restore, add what I found, and then we can take it from there, OK? BTW, I saw the comment in the AfD, but surely being picked by JSTOR is "selective"--even our JSTOR-lite has access to it, besides another database I'm not familiar with, Ethnic NewsWatch. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 17:14, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

User:Drmies: Hey, I feel insulted by Wikipedia right now. But good luck.Zigzig20s (talk) 17:49, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

User:Drmies: Do you mind if I ask you, how would you characterize the following words, ""bullshit", "fucking", "bullshit", "BS", "BS", "fucking", "Dumbass", "go FYS""? Would you say they are rude and insulting? Also, can you please let me know if we are no longer allowed to discuss content about articles on talkpages? It looks like there might be a new policy, all of a sudden. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 23:52, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

Dear Zigzig, I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, but ok--those are bad words, but whether they're blockable depends on context, frequency, etc. I don't know where you stand on "political correctness", for instance; if you like the new blunt talk that is sweeping the country, this isn't so bad. And yes, we are allowed to discuss content on talk pages (I assume you mean user talk pages), unless of course one is topic-banned, or someone told someone not to post on their talk page, or there's something else going on, etc. Hard to speak generally. I just removed the notability tag from that journal--I'm surprised you didn't see that it was founded by Theodore Cross, who is a (white) civil rights hero. But I found the journal cited in so many places that there's no way it's not notable, and thanks for writing it up. I wish I had known about the AfD, but hey. Drmies (talk) 01:39, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

User:Drmies: See below Magnolia's comment if interested. That journal looks fabulous, thanks, but I am very insulted by Wikipedia right now. To answer your question, I am opposed to political correctness as it is a form of modern-day obscurantism, but I also never swear and I am never around anybody who swears in real life. I only hear swearwords in movies sometimes. Actually, the topic I am not allowed to mention is a staple of political correctness; not being allowed to discuss it seems obscurantist. Now, swearing at those who disagree with us is just bad manners, and it makes editing Wikipedia horribly unpleasant, which is unacceptable IMO. Discussing content diplomatically on article talkpages should still be allowed, though. Are proponents of political correctness more prone to swearing? Perhaps we could cite a journal article about this, once we all feel welcome and respected again. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 01:50, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

User:Drmies: Do you mind if I ask you, are editors who level ""bullshit", "fucking", "bullshit", "BS", "BS", "fucking", "Dumbass", "go FYS"" at others, also allowed to use a personal blog as an in-line reference now? Is this another new rule, all of a sudden? Thank you for your time.Zigzig20s (talk) 10:32, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

Whether blogs are acceptable or not depends on who is doing the blogging, and what the venue is. I am not sure what WP:RS has to say on the topic, but typically we should treat those matters at WP:RSN. If I had a blog, no one should cite it. If User:Wadewitz had a blog, everyone should cite it. Maybe. I know the Washington Post has a "blog" (and I think NYT and WSJ do too), but it's filled by their writers, and I assume there's some editorial control, so that's more acceptable than my WordPress blog. Drmies (talk) 17:37, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

• I don't think that being included in JSTOR means that a journal is notable. The link you added doesn't work for me, it doesn't show the quote but goes to a list of references instead. In any case, given the paucity of participation in the AfD (beside me as nom, only one, now-blocked, editor), I think that should best be treated as a PROD, which can be restored if contested. Depending on the sources you can find, we can take it to AfD again or let it be as it is. --Randykitty (talk) 17:33, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

• Hey thanks again for writing this up. Researching it to find more references has been very educational. Drmies (talk) 17:39, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

Dear User:Drmies: Thank you. I am currently on strike. See Category:Wikipedians on strike.Zigzig20s (talk) 17:58, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for taking a break from years of disrupting Wikipedia. -- 184.189.217.210 (talk) 11:43, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

Because everyone will take a random IP address's rant seriously, as opposed to User:Drmies's congratulations above.Zigzig20s (talk) 12:48, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

User:Drmies: Simply as a matter of policy, would you mind explaining this to me please? Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 02:23, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Zigzig20s. You have new messages at Cameron11598's talk page.
Message added 18:41, 9 November 2016 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

--Cameron₁₁₅₉₈ ^(Talk) 18:41, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

You've got mail!

Hello, Zigzig20s. Please check your email; you've got mail! The subject is The Wikipedia Library - OUP.
Message added 06:04, 10 November 2016 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

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Notice that you are now subject to an arbitration enforcement sanction

The following sanction now applies to you:

You have been indefinitely topic banned from all pages related to climate change, broadly construed. Please read WP:TBAN to see what "topic banned" means

You have been sanctioned for persistent disruptive editing on Myron Ebell and its talkpage. Your restoration of 8-year-old tags for tone and cleanup, with no specific claim of what the tone and cleanup issues might be , and no input on talk — merely "I did not add these tags. Please respect the other editors who did"[1] — is the last straw. I notice you made that edit after claiming no less than three times on the talkpage that you were leaving the article. It's getting quite hard to take those claims seriously. Your topic ban includes Myron Ebell and its talkpage, naturally.

This sanction is imposed in my capacity as an uninvolved administrator under the authority of the Arbitration Committee's decision at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Climate change#Final decision and, if applicable, the procedure described at Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions. This sanction has been recorded in the log of sanctions. If the sanction includes a ban, please read the banning policy to ensure you understand what this means. If you do not comply with this sanction, you may be blocked for an extended period, by way of enforcement of this sanction—and you may also be made subject to further sanctions.

You may appeal this sanction using the process described here. I recommend that you use the arbitration enforcement appeals template if you wish to submit an appeal to the arbitration enforcement noticeboard. You may also appeal directly to me (on my talk page), before or instead of appealing to the noticeboard. Even if you appeal this sanction, you remain bound by it until you are notified by an uninvolved administrator that the appeal has been successful. You are also free to contact me on my talk page if anything of the above is unclear to you. Bishonen | talk 16:35, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

User:Bishonen: What exactly is the point? I have no intention to keep editing that topic, as I said on the talkpage. I simply added the tags back as they were removed without consensus. And, what about the swearwords on his talkpage and other BLP violations?Zigzig20s (talk) 16:37, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

And you've broken the topic ban twice. One at WP:BLPN and once at the page where bans are logged, which is only for, of course, logging bans, not discussing them. No more freebies, you are risking a block or even an indefinite ban from Wikipedia. Doug Weller talk 16:56, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

Sorry I didn't know I was not allowed to edit anything about this topic anywhere any more. I apologize.Zigzig20s (talk) 16:57, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

User:Doug Weller: May I ask you one question though? Please don't block me for it, but I had posted this BLP violation notice before I was topic banned. I understand why you would want to remove the second message where I say I was topic banned, but why remove the first one? The swearwords are still on his talkpage for example. Just asking about policy here. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 17:00, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

Ah, hadn't checked the timestamp for the first one. I'll restore that. Doug Weller talk 17:01, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

User:Doug Weller: OK thanks. Can you please check the talkpage as well? Hours before I was topic banned, I had warned I would stop editing about this topic. The only edit I did was in good faith, reinserting the "clean-up" and "tone" tags and asking the editor who had added them if he agreed with their removal without consensus by another editor. I don't understand why I was topic banned for that. I was trying to reach consensus as per policy. I was not editing about the topic any more.Zigzig20s (talk) 17:03, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

User:Doug Weller: Do you think it's normal that I was addressed with rude words like "bullshit", "fucking", "bullshit", "BS", "BS", "fucking", "Dumbass", "go FYS" while I tried to remain diplomatic, NPOV and collaborative on the talkpage? I've never seen anything like it.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:40, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Yes, you said it on the talkpage once, twice, and again. And then you came back again to add the tags. That is the exact point of topic banning you. You seem to think adding tags isn't editing, but it certainly is. I see an editor cussing at you on the talkpage, yes. You were being unreasonable, and tempers got hot. That's the reason you are also banned from further timewasting on the talkpage. I don't know what you mean by "BLP violations" on the talkpage — I don't see any — but then your refusal or inability to get the point about the BLP vio I recently removed at Talk:Donald Trump (see this section) makes me wonder if you know what WP:BLP is about. And if you had taken the trouble to click on WP:TBAN, as I told you to in my ban notice, you would have known you weren't allowed to edit anything about this topic anywhere any more. But then you have ignored so much advice and information from me that it's par for the course. Don't expect me to come to this page again. Bishonen | talk 17:14, 10 November 2016 (UTC).

User:Bishonen: There are two swearwords on Ebell's talkpage. Dating back to 2006! This has nothing to do with me. And the article includes long quotes about lawsuits; it is POV. And I am not sure why you are bringing up Donald Trump.Zigzig20s (talk) 17:19, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

User:Bishonen: Right, so you didn't see my message on the talkpage. Would you agree that I did this in order to reach consensus, and that the topic ban should be revoked since I have no intention whatsoever to edit about this topic anyway?Zigzig20s (talk) 17:29, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

No, I would not. That was just one detail. You were linked to full instructions on how to appeal the ban in the ban notice. You may regard the appeal to the banning admin as declined, and try one of the other venues if you think it's worth the trouble (considering you have no intention whatsoever to edit about this topic anyway). Bishonen | talk 17:37, 10 November 2016 (UTC).

I feel insulted.Zigzig20s (talk) 17:39, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

User:Bishonen: Could you please explain which edits you deemed "disruptive" in comparison to the other editor, BatteryIncluded (who addressed me with words like "bullshit", "fucking", "bullshit", "BS", "BS", "fucking", "Dumbass", "go FYS") please? I tried to be very diplomatic, NPOV and collaborative on the talkpage, while attempting to address the issues of tone and clean-up in the article. You did not provide specific explanations, so I am in the dark. Thank you so much for your time.Zigzig20s (talk) 20:25, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

You say the thing which is not so. You made no attempts to "address the issues of tone and clean-up in the article", unless you count restoring tone and clean-up tags (after complaining that "the article looks terrible, with two tone and clean-up tags"(!)). What you did address was exclusively your insistence on calling Ebell a climate-change sceptic or "analyst", in preference to a climate-change denier, in defiance of reliable sources. That's neither a tone nor a cleanup issue, but an NPOV issue. I agree BatteryIncluded lost their temper and spoke rudely to you, and shouldn't have. But I'm afraid I have some sympathy with them after your relentless rehashing of the same weak argument (basically "While his critics say he denies it, he happens to be skeptical of climate change") over and over. And now I really must be going. You were completely unreceptive when I tried nicely to give you useful information.[2][3][4] To quote you, "please respect my time". Take it to one of the boards you have been told about.[5] Bishonen | talk 23:44, 10 November 2016 (UTC).

User:Bishonen: Did you not see User:Magnolia677's response on the talkpage, where they agree with me (not you)? I still do not understand why you topic banned me. Is it simply that you disagree with us? Do you really not see a POV problem with casting Ebell as a "denier", and not even being allowed to discuss the article on the talkpage?Zigzig20s (talk) 23:50, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

Zigzig20s, thank you for mentioning my edit to Myron Ebell. I must sympathize with your frustration with User:BatteryIncluded, who appears to have no tolerance for the word "skeptic" on that article, despite reliable sources that refer to him repeatedly by that very word. In fact, he reverted my edit, and in doing so removed sourced content. Let us hope an administrator might review that editor's actions as well. Cheers. Magnolia677 (talk) 03:14, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

This is inaccurate. User:Zigzig20s added a characterization of Myron Ebell as a "climate change analyst", in contradiction to all available evidence, to the lede. I repeatedly asked him to provide a source for this characterization, which he never did. I changed it to "global warming skeptic", which User:Zigzig20s twice reverted back to his bogus "climate change analyst", so he is the one who has no tolerance for the word "skeptic". He also called my change vandalism. We are to assume good faith, but sometimes people prove the opposite with their words and actions ... in this case it correctly led to a topic ban. -- 184.189.217.210 (talk) 10:48, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

That moment when a random IP address who previously only edited about Alicia Machado leaves a rant. This is not about any specific topic at all, which I won't talk about, but a matter of style for ledes. My understanding is that we always start with the broadest definition and then move on to specifics. This is just how Western rhetoric works.Zigzig20s (talk) 12:59, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

For your attention

I have left a message on the talk page of User talk:Bishonen which you may wish to comment on. Thank you. Magnolia677 (talk) 03:56, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

User:Magnolia677: I am confused about some apparently brand-new policy positions. Could you please help me get a confirmation that:

• 1) removing "clean-up" and "tone" tags from articles without consensus is now WP policy?
• 2) levelling ""bullshit", "fucking", "bullshit", "BS", "BS", "fucking", "Dumbass", "go FYS"" at other editors is now WP policy?
• 3) citing personal blogs as reliable third-party sources is now WP policy?

Do let know if you can find out. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 12:34, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

In my half day so far editing that article, I can assure you it is biased in its tone, and some of the sources cited either do not support the content, or were cherrypicked. I really have no feelings one way or the other about the person mentioned in the biography (and I do think climate change is a genuine concern), my concern is strictly with the integrity of Wikipedia. If the person in the biography is a charlatan, reliable and credible sources should not be hard to find to support that. Regarding the potty mouth edit summaries, I have not looked at them but will take your word for it. I have in the past always left a caution on an editor's talk page when their language is vulgar, and a few weeks ago took an editor to ANI over it. I was well supported there. Cheers. Magnolia677 (talk) 13:03, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

User:Magnolia677: Feel free to do a word search for "bullshit", "fucking", "bullshit", "BS", "BS", "fucking", "Dumbass", "go FYS" on the article talkpage. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:33, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

President-elect Trump/"uninvolved"

User:Drmies and User:Randykitty: Before I was topic-banned, User:Bishonen redacted someone's comment about Hillary on Donald Trump's talkpage, and I called them out on it. How does that make them uninvolved? How is the topic ban not in retaliation? Note that I am not saying that it is, just wondering, given the curious context. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:18, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

• I looked at the edit on the Trump talk page and while I in general agree with you in what you write in that section, I also think that Bishonen was correct in redacting that particular edit (personally, I'd probably revdel'ed it. Admins have to deal with issues like this all the time and I don't think that the fact that you disagreed with redacting the comment makes Bishonen involved regarding you. I have not looked at the topic ban issue itself as I have no time (nor, frankly, the inclination) to delve into that, but Bishonen is a very experienced admin, so you'll need something better than a minor altercation on the Trump talk page, I'm afraid. Personally, if I were you, I'd heed Bishonen's advice. --Randykitty (talk) 13:46, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

User:Randykitty: Sorry, does this mean you agree they are not uninvolved? They even e-mailed me about this. Meanwhile, they have not redacted insults from other article talkpages by the way (including "moron" and "jackass", as well as ""bullshit", "fucking", "bullshit", "BS", "BS", "fucking", "Dumbass", "go FYS""). The point of the topic ban is that it is only meant to humiliate me, as I had agreed to stop editing before I was banned. Do you agree with Magnolia too by the way?Zigzig20s (talk) 13:51, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

No, it means that I think that the minor altercation on the Trump talk page leaves Bishonen completely uninvolved. I have seen Bishonen around a lot (not sure I ever interacted with them much) and they're extremely level-headed, so my advice is to calm down and not take things so personally. If you already decided to stop editing in that area, then why get so upset about a topic ban? Archive it and move on. And I repaet that I don't have the time nor the inclination to delve much deeper into this. --Randykitty (talk) 13:59, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

User:Randykitty: Because I don't feel respected. I feel like I am being treated like garbage. Hence, I am on strike.Zigzig20s (talk) 14:01, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

User:Jauerback: How do you feel about this as a matter of policy please? Please note that I have decided to go on strike as a result. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 15:36, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

Let me get this straight. Are you saying that all you have to do to make an Admin involved is to "call them out"? Doug Weller talk 16:09, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

I wrote, "Note that I am not saying that it is, just wondering, given the curious context.". Both topics are political (and both are about Trump). But please don't put words in my mouth; I am not saying anything, just wondering, as I wrote earlier. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 16:12, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. I did think it was clear that my question was to make sure I wasn't putting words in your mouth. Doug Weller talk 16:35, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking me here. If it's about Bishonen redacting that comment, then yes, he was correct. And, in doing so, it does not make him "involved". Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 20:07, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

User:Jauerback: I am sorry but can you not see that both articles are related to Trump? And that he topic-banned me indefinitely while he left the other editor free to hurl insults at me? The reason I am very insulted is that I am being treated like a child. I am not a child. I have self-restraint and there is no need whatsoever to topic-ban me. I do not care if there is consensus for all articles about the topic I am not allowed to mention to be POV--that won't be my problem any more, it will just make Wikipedia look bad/biased but if there is consensus for it, I do not care--but being treated like a baby because I do not believe that Trump is far right or that his appointees are extreme at all, is very insulting.Zigzig20s (talk) 20:13, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

User:Jauerback: If you look at my editing history, you will see that I never edit about the topic I am not allowed to mention. I only edited the article because of Trump.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:01, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

There is a bigger issue here. See Talk:Donald Trump's cabinet, whose article I did not edit.Zigzig20s (talk) 20:17, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

• Hey Zigzig, I read WP:INVOLVED conservatively, as the founders intended, I believe. I do not believe in liberal interpretations of it, or in legislation by a mob rule, as seems to happen on ANI sometimes. It takes a lot for an admin to legitimately be called "involved", and having taken administrative action in a certain article does not make one involved. In fact, taking administrative action is exactly what we, as an independent judiciary, are supposed to do. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 02:06, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

User:Drmies: "Involvement is generally construed very broadly by the community, to include current or past conflicts with an editor (or editors), and disputes on topics, regardless of the nature, age, or outcome of the dispute."Zigzig20s (talk) 02:14, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

I didn't realize we'd had a past conflict. I thought that was me explaining to you how the post I removed contained a BLP violation. At first you weren't able to discern that violation, and for my part I wasn't willing to quote it on the page for your information (because that would have defeated the purpose of removing it).[6][7][8][9] So I e-mailed you to spell out what the BLP violation was. I received no reply, and assumed the penny had dropped. I'm very surprised you consider that any kind of "conflict", and that you resent it that I "even e-mailed" you.[10] I thought that was rather nice and accomodating of me, all things considered. Bishonen | talk 05:06, 14 November 2016 (UTC).

I did not e-mail you back because I always avoid conflict. To be honest, I think the expression "far right" on the talkpage could be seen as a BLP violation, yet it was not redacted. That is open to interpretations, which is why I dropped it.Zigzig20s (talk) 11:37, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Zig, if I now would block you to cool down because you're starting to become disruptive, would that then mean that for the rest of eternity I'd be "involved" where you are concerned? Of course not. If that were the case, at some point we'd run out of admins that could take any action involving you. I have said it before and say it again: take a deep breath, step back, and move on. And make an end at this discussion that clearly isn't going anywhere. --Randykitty (talk) 06:01, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

I guess the fact that you've been trying for years to delete The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education and that you'd succeeded but it was restored in light of this, seems to be a contradiction of "Involvement is generally construed very broadly by the community, to include current or past conflicts with an editor (or editors), and disputes on topics, regardless of the nature, age, or outcome of the dispute.". One may certainly want to rewrite the involved policy at some point. Anyway, I was just asking a question about a policy on my own talkpage, which is still allowed. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 11:35, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Ah, I see. I nominated an article that you created for deletion and because it was then re-created I "lost" and now am biased and "involved" where you are concerned... You really, really need to drop the battleground mentality here, pal. --Randykitty (talk) 14:53, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

I was asking a question about the policy. There's nothing personal about this, but I apologize if I offended you. Please assume good faith--I am human too. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 14:59, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

I have business meetings to attend all day anyway, so no time to 'strike' online. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:56, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Comment about the toxic topic

One quickly gets attacked and threatened, if you just try to convert an attack piece into an article. Juts have a look on my talk page, think it won't infringe with your ban. ;) Polentarion Talk 22:14, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

FYI: User_talk:Dervorguilla#Zizek.2C_Trump_and_Iron. The WP has been overtaken by Bionade-Biedermeiers. Polentarion Talk 17:56, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of KSL Capital Partners

The article KSL Capital Partners has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

No evidence of notability. No given references. Searches throw up several financial reports of take-overs etc but nothing that doesn't appear to be either a press release or reporting for due diligence. As currently written it fails WP:GNG by a mile

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion.  Velella  ^{Velella Talk}   16:49, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

User:Velella: Feel free to delete this instead of trying to expand it with reliable third-party sources about its $2.677 billion stake. I am on strike and I won't try to help. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 16:59, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Hey, sorry about that. I just thought that it might actually be notable, but I don't have the background to find the right sources. I'll leave the PROD there and see if anybody else can rescue it. Regards  Velella  ^{Velella Talk}   17:03, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

User:Velella: Just google it. Or use the reference I mentioned earlier. I have the background to find the right sources, but I am on strike.Zigzig20s (talk) 17:06, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

User:Velella, I've just returned it to the last "good" version. Edwardx (talk) 17:18, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Thanks User:Edwardx; a quick look at the history shows that even the short stub I created had multiple references. User:Velella: Perhaps it would be wise to look at the history before rushing to delete articles. I am surprised you created your account in 2004. In any case, I am on strike.Zigzig20s (talk) 17:22, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Victorino Noval

Over at WP:Articles for deletion/Victorino Noval Foundation you've proposed that the foundation article be redirected to VIctorino Noval. The latter is still a red link. Does this mean you have plans to create an article? Let me know. Due to legal issues my guess is that it would be simpler to avoid this whole situation. Let the foundation article be deleted and not create anything new. I saw your note at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Victorino Noval Foundation. The status of Noval the person would be easier to cite than the status of the foundation. Generally we don't like to cite court documents even when they are provided online. They are primary sources and require interpretation. If the status of the foundation or the person has not been covered in the press we can leave it alone. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 04:56, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

User:EdJohnston: I think Noval passes GNG as a film producer, real estate investor and philanthropist. We can leave out the legal stuff to avoid a BLP violation (I don't understand it).Zigzig20s (talk) 05:11, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

I have unreviewed a page you curated

Hi, I'm Robert McClenon. I wanted to let you know that I saw the page you reviewed, Voiceless Victims, and have un-reviewed it again. If you have any questions, please ask them on my talk page. Thank you. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:13, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

User:Robert McClenon: Hi, what do you mean? I've just created it as a stub backed up by sources in the international media.Zigzig20s (talk) 02:16, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

You referred to it as a fake organization in the voice of Wikipedia, and I just wanted another reviewer to look at that. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:19, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

User:Robert McClenon: Please read Forbes and Le Monde. I have since added more in-depth information.Zigzig20s (talk) 02:23, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Hubert Lucot

Okay, I get the article is undergoing an edit, but at the time, and even still now, there's not much to the article. How much more is going to be added to make it relevant? Snickers2686 (talk) 04:24, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

User:LouisAlain: Can you please help me with this? There are several references/obituaries. I am busy with the inauguration today and then a friend is visiting over the weekend, but he seems perfectly notable as per weight of RS. Thanks!Zigzig20s (talk) 10:06, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

ITNC

Hi Zigzig. While I'm sure its a discussion worth having somewhere (like, not on Wikipedia), whether Trump or Obama are/were more/less pro/anti LGBT isn't really a discussion to have at ITNC when it isn't relevant to the proposed item. Also pinging Sluzzelin. Sam Walton (talk) 00:03, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

User:Samwalton9: Hi. I think it is in this case because the altblurb mentions the LGBTQ community and I find this offensive. So my point is that if we post this ITN, we shouldn't post the altblurb that mentions the LGBTQ community.Zigzig20s (talk) 00:04, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

(ec):Yeah, whatever, no problems here if that entire subthread gets removed. If you only wish to remove my post (which was only intended because of syntax and factuality) then, by all means only remove mine. Thanks. ---Sluzzelin talk 00:06, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

User:Samwalton9 and User:Sluzzelin: It's not off topic re: altblurb. So there's no need to censor our discussion there.Zigzig20s (talk) 00:07, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

@Zigzig20s: Most votes now seem to be focused on blurb 3, which makes no mention of that. Sam Walton (talk) 00:08, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

User:Samwalton9: Yes, alt3 is more neutral, although I still think it is less "in the news" than the inauguration itself. But anyway, please leave our (very short) discussion there, as it's perfectly relevant. We just won't go on.Zigzig20s (talk) 00:10, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Obama and gay marriage

Please don't make statements like this one here--it is so far from the truth that it's really a BLP violation. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 03:52, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

Hi User:Drmies: My understanding is that this is a policy position, not a personal matter. And here's a reference with a direct quote from Obama in 2008: "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage.".Zigzig20s (talk) 04:00, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

• Zigzig, that's not the same thing. The statement that you made makes him out to be a hater of gays, actively opposing gay equality. It is hard, for me, to come up with something more incorrect. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 04:03, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

Hi User:Drmies: I am very sorry that you misunderstood what I wrote. Please try to assume good faith. When Obama ran for POTUS and won the first time around, he was opposed to gay marriage. When Trump ran for POTUS and won the first time around, he was not opposed to it.Zigzig20s (talk) 04:07, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

Mail

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They published a follow-up today.

So

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again  :) O Fortuna!^{...Imperatrix mundi.} 11:47, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Actors

I don't know who was harping, but we should have them shot!! Just out of interest, I stumbled upon Felicity Jones today, not literally of course, that would have been a pleasure though, and thought it was a nice example of how a more up-to-date article handles film and television appearances. It demonstrates the way forward with regard to stand-alone references using verifiable reliable sources, much as you have now achieved with Michèle Morgan. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:42, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

I still don't think we need to reference filmographies. I certainly don't think you should create more work for other editors by demanding it. Just do it if you feel like it, but please don't assume I created a precedent--I didn't--I was just trying to win (and I did!).Zigzig20s (talk) 13:27, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

No, as I adequately demonstrated with both the bare facts of WP:V and numerous examples, both of lists and the article I've linked you to above, many others examples of good and proper referencing exist, so you didn't set a precedent at all. In fact, the Zsa Zsa Gabor article was significantly improved along the same lines just a few days ago. You played your part, and as a result we have a much improved article. That's a good thing. And no, you didn't "win", Wikipedia and its readers did. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:32, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Many editors disagree with your interpretation of that policy. I encourage you to talk to them about it, possibly on the policy talkpage. I am bored by this and I think I may want to read a book now!Zigzig20s (talk) 13:36, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

And many agree. Enjoy your book!! The Rambling Man (talk) 14:23, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Re:Eugene Holman

It was actually a csd deletion, but I've no objection to reinstating the article and moving it for work. One thing I do need to know though is whether you want this in the WP:DRAFT space or in the user space. Once I know that I can restore and move the article for you. TomStar81 (Talk) 06:01, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Les Inrocks

Please check here. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 03:46, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

User:OhanaUnited :I don't want to use Dropbox.Zigzig20s (talk) 03:49, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

User:OhanaUnited : It's fine, I got it.Zigzig20s (talk) 05:22, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Las Vegas Strip

Hello, perhaps talking would be more productive than back-and-forth reverting. Yes, there have been lots of violent incidents on the Strip, and parts of the Strip have gotten closed down lots of times for various planned and unplanned events. It's less than 12 hours later and everything is back to normal. Toohool (talk) 05:41, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Texas NRHPs

Hey I bet you created this TX NRHP article in good faith expecting/hoping the NRHP nomination would be available to flesh out the article, but then were disappointed to find out it was not. I think you've noticed me expanding some TX NRHP articles recently; i just finished adding a little bit to each of the ones I had created that were "NRIS-only", using the NRHP documents now available at National Archives. Hey, is the info at wp:NRHPhelp#Texas (basically go to the National Archive section, then use the NRIS reference number to search, and copy the blank reference to fill it out) sufficient guidance? :) I'd be happy to cooperate in addressing some chunk of the 196 TX "NRIS-only" articles (per wp:NRHPprogress), if you'd be interested, too. --doncram 05:21, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

User:doncram: Thank you for reaching out. I am not entirely sure what you mean, but thanks for expanding the article. There are matches on Newspapers.com, but they are "Publisher Extra matches", so I can't read them and expand the article. Maybe User:Cameron11598 could help us?Zigzig20s (talk) 01:04, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

Hey I have seen this but don't quite have the time to provide an answer I'll get back to you guys sometime this weekend. Cheers! --Cameron₁₁₅₉₈ ^(Talk) 01:10, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

So we (the wikipedia library) do not provide access to publisher extra, unfortunately the agreement newspapers.com has with some of the newspapers included in extra prohibits them from donating fee access for "publisher extra" accounts. Sorry! --Cameron₁₁₅₉₈ ^(Talk) 18:04, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

About William Garrett Plantation, there is lots more good information about the topic in the NRHP document, available to use in expansion. In that article, you had put in a NRHP document reference but it was "fake"...the reference link did not work, and I don't think it ever did, because there was no information from it in the article. I think you put the reference in hoping/expecting it would link to a NRHP nomination document. Now although it takes a few steps you can get the NRHP nomination document.

I didn't mean to be cryptic about anything, will be happy to explain anything. To expand a bit:

• I could be wrong about my recollections and I am not attempting to check your contribution history, but I perceive that you have long been active in NRHP editing, maybe especially in Texas. Maybe you'd be interested in doing more.
• For Texas NRHPs, nomination documents have not been easily available. Although recently the National Archives Catalog source has acquired the great majority of Texas NRHP nomination documents.
• Lots of Texas NRHP articles are very short stubs that could be developed now. Many of these are in the "NRIS-only" category. This petscan tool report currently identifies 182 NRIS-only articles in Texas.
• Some very short Texas NRHP articles, like the William Garrett Plantation article were not tagged NRIS-only. These are harder to find.
• I would be happy to work on a campaign to improve the short stub Texas NRHP articles in the easier to find category, if you are. :)

I'd be happy to answer any questions. Cheers, --doncram 00:49, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi User:doncram: Yes, I am very interested in the Antebellum buildings of Texas and other Southern states. The trick is to find enough sources to flesh them out.Zigzig20s (talk) 00:54, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

Outrageous question

And if so are you aware of WP:PAID? Alexbrn (talk) 14:16, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

User:Alexbrn: NO. And I really do not appreciate this outrageous question, which might be interpreted as a personal attack. I was reading The Beverly Hills Courier and I added some referenced content to Deepak Chopra's article, which you removed. The appropriate response would be to discuss the content on his talkpage as I tried to do earlier, not make unfounded insinuations. Please stop.Zigzig20s (talk) 14:21, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

My question was not in relation to the Chopra content, but more general. But thank you for your clear answer. Alexbrn (talk) 14:30, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

I believe it is the only time we have ever interacted. This is not a polite question on Wikipedia; most editors will get extremely offended if you ask this. Please don't do it again.Zigzig20s (talk) 14:35, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Oh it's important to ask when there are grounds, as I'm sure we all want to root out undisclosed paid editing right? There have been some very big cases recently: very prolific editors like Earflaps. Alexbrn (talk) 14:45, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Just for you!

For you! Use whatever works: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Confederate_Memorial_Fountain_(Helena,_Montana). Do not think I normally can turn around a request this quick (grin), it was on the way home and the weather was OK, just this once, cause you’re cool to be working on these. I also had to fend off a panhandling transient… you owe me one, LOL!  ;-) Montanabw^(talk) 01:12, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

User:Montanabw: Thank you. Is there no sign with a disclaimer then? By the way, I am somewhat dismayed to hear there are panhandlers in Montana.Zigzig20s (talk) 10:34, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

The sign is not yet up; I am sure that the mayor and the historical society are having many meetings on figuring out just the precise language. The issue of how to portray the monument was recently parodied by local comics (though the link doesn’t mention that particular skit…). As for the transients, it’s spring, and the homeless shelter is about three blocks away, so they are now emerging from hibernation. Montana is relatively kind to the homeless because we don’t want them freezing to death in the winter, so no tent cities (though some folks prefer to camp in the woods during the summer; one does need to be aware of where the hobo camps are on the outskirts of town) — we have a pretty good network of shelters and assorted housing programs. Montanabw^(talk) 00:52, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

User:Montanabw: Wouldn't it be a better long-term investment to give them jobs? And I am wondering if the article should say that there is no such sign as of April 2017, or would that be OR?Zigzig20s (talk) 01:00, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

In this case, I’d proceed until apprehended. If I said it, it would be OR, even though I walked around the thing about five times, looking… and also checked the approaches. But you could cite “per images taken from all sides of the monument in April 2017, no visible sign” per WP:POPE and I suspect that so long as you don’t draw attention to the article via a DYK or other bling, it would stick. JMO. Homelessness… difficult everywhere. Addiction, mental illness, PTSD, etc… the panhandler did want me to buy one of his "carvings", but they were twigs worked with his pocketknife, and he was probably mentally ill. Sad…And that also meant that he was probably carrying a knife… so staying a good 20 feet away with a “no thank you but have a nice day” smile… did the trick. Montanabw^(talk) 01:27, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Category:Bookstores established in 1911 has been nominated for discussion

Category:Bookstores established in 1911, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 13:51, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: George Ciccariello-Maher (April 1)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by SwisterTwister was:  The comment the reviewer left was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

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SwisterTwister talk 16:42, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

User:SwisterTwister: Have you not seen that he's been in the news several times? There are lots and lots of third-party sources about his tweets.Zigzig20s (talk) 16:45, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Talkback

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North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 04:02, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

You've got mail!

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--Cameron₁₁₅₉₈ ^(Talk) 04:11, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

Jamie Drew Weinand

Thanks ZigZag for your work on this article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Drew_Weinand) , I also do not like obstructionism and I have also been making small, minor edits here and there to add more sources and such. -User:TransgenderMedicine

ITN recognition for Stuart Timmons

On 31 January 2017, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Stuart Timmons, which you rescued from a draft, updated and nominated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Stephen 08:45, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

Christopher Kelly (author)

No, I have not read any of his books. I don't read many books at all. I go to the book festival just to get author pictures for Wikipedia articles that are lacking images or have old or low resolution images. Regards. Nv8200p talk 11:08, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

User:Nv8200p: I would recommend them. I liked his first novel and I am reading his second novel right now.Zigzig20s (talk) 11:09, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

Created article Retama Park. Good idea. Nv8200p talk 19:27, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

Can't really find any good info from good sources on the Worthington Hotel. I'll pass on that one. Nv8200p talk 23:35, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Somali presidential election, 2017

On 10 February 2017, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Somali presidential election, 2017, which you nominated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Stephen 09:00, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

ITN for André Salvat

On 17 February 2017, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article André Salvat, which you recently nominated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 03:06, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Jeanne Martin Cissé

On 23 February 2017, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Jeanne Martin Cissé, which you nominated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Stephen 00:29, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Precious two years!

Precious

Two years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:52, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

User:Gerda Arendt: Thank you. What happened two years ago though? I don't remember.Zigzig20s (talk) 08:01, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Nor do I ;) - follow the link, that may help, - I give it to the first helpful user I meet a day and who didn't get it before, - that may be for some spelling fix or removal of vandalism. - You can also just take this as a friendly reminder ;) - I hope I could explain that I think published book, recordings, and even legendary theatre performances don't need a reference? Look at Ingeborg Weber-Kellermann today, a scientist who published. Tagged with needing references. On a Sunday, I just dropped the minor papers, - I was too tired to find another reference where the exact title of the journal was given. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:11, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

User:Gerda Arendt: Thank you. The thing is the DYK is on the main page. A few months ago, I was forced to reference Michèle Morgan's entire filmography to get it approved for RD on the main page. Don't we have the same standards for DYK and if so why not?Zigzig20s (talk) 08:26, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

The standard - when I learned DYK in 2009 - was: reference contentious facts, and have one ref per paragraph. Now, it got more complicated than writing a FA. For the theatre, I wasn't the author, so just told the author that it was tagged, and waited what would happen. Your comment was all that happened, so next time I will also not waste time on finding references for published books that are just there, and spend my time better in writing articles. They don't have to go to DYK. I found the request to reference recordings today, - again, I was only the nominator, and they sat on the French Wikipedia - without reference - for a long time. Let's see what I will do about that ;) - Call me Gerda, and no ping needed the same day ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:38, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

What you're describing is fine for regular articles, but my understanding is that we have extremely demanding expectations for the main page.Zigzig20s (talk) 08:50, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Yes, extremely ;) - A published scientific article is what it is. What does it change that a secondary source says it exists? - A legendary performance in a cult theatre is what it is. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:01, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Douglas Henry

On 8 March 2017, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Douglas Henry, which you nominated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Stephen 02:52, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Re: Mystery initials to decipher: "IA ’43, MBA 2/’47, DCS ’58"

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ITN recognition for Henri Cueco

On 15 March 2017, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Henri Cueco, which you nominated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Stephen 22:54, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

ITN recognition for André Tosel

On 18 March 2017, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article André Tosel, which you nominated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 19:02, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Melania Trump

Did you forget this? --Klaus Frisch (talk) 19:39, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

User:Klaus Frisch: Feel free to 'e-mail this user' with scans of the relevant pages. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 20:35, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Unfortunately, this doesn't work. The software doesn't allow adding any files. So feel free ;) to email me so that I can reply with the scan. --Klaus Frisch (talk) 20:50, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

User:Klaus Frisch: Hi. Could you please send me the same PDF horizontally?Zigzig20s (talk) 23:08, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Oh my God! This is incredibly complicated! Please ask someone else. It is easy to turn any picture around. I don't have the appropriate software since my OS (Windows) has been updated recently. And my RL is a complete mess. I hope to be able to complete the article about Melania in de.WP in the near future. I also intend to complete the one about Donald's father Fred Trump, and I (more or less) wrote all the other articles about Donald's ancestors there. Here I just try to help a little bit sometimes. And in Europe, almost nobody is interested in the religious aspects that are so important in the USA. Strange as it seems, vice versa. --Klaus Frisch (talk) 01:43, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Milton W. Humphreys's Grave

At long last, there is a photograph of Milton W. Humphreys's gravestone on his Wiki page. The UVA Wikiproject has been inactive for nearly a decade at this point, but I go to school there and recently took a trip to the cemetery to photograph notable gravestones. You're welcome! ;) --Mooeena (talk) 19:48, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

User:Mooeena: Thank you. Interesting to see a Christian cross!Zigzig20s (talk) 20:36, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Ömer Vargı

The article Ömer Vargı has been proposed for deletion because it appears to have no references. Under Wikipedia policy, this biography of a living person will be deleted after seven days unless it has at least one reference to a reliable source that directly supports material in the article.

If you created the article, please don't be offended. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see Referencing for beginners, or ask at the help desk. Once you have provided at least one reliable source, you may remove the {{prod blp/dated}} tag. Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced. If you cannot provide such a source within seven days, the article may be deleted, but you can request that it be undeleted when you are ready to add one. -KAP03(^{Talk • Contributions • Email}) 17:07, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Yamashiro Historic District images

Hallo Zigzig20s,

Would you mind taking a look here Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_California/Los_Angeles_task_force#Yamashiro_Historic_District_images for your help, or ask a user in the task force who might be able to help? Thank you very much. Gryffindor (talk) 15:08, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

User:Gryffindor: Thanks for the note. User:Toglenn might be able to help?Zigzig20s (talk) 15:48, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Bruno Lafont has been accepted

Bruno Lafont, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.
The article has been assessed as Stub-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

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Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia!

TheSandDoctor (talk) 20:06, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

Mattachine Steps

The Mattachine Steps photo done. Glenn Francis (talk) 09:54, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

User:Toglenn: Thank you!Zigzig20s (talk) 10:26, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Stewart Bainum Jr.

Hi Zigzig20s, happy Friday! Just checking to see if you got my email re: Bainum Jr. If you reply, I can send you the PDF of the Washington Life article. Also, let me know if you have any more feedback on the proposed draft. Thanks! 16912 Rhiannon (Talk · COI) 15:56, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

Nomination of Alisa Titko for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Alisa Titko is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alisa Titko until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Bearcat (talk) 18:38, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

User:Bearcat: Could you not wait for the discussion at WP:LGBT Studies? I don't speak Russian; I can't find more sources, but her columns are read by hundreds of Russians...Zigzig20s (talk) 18:39, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

People get Wikipedia articles by being the subject of enough media coverage to make them more than just a WP:BLP1E. A journalist does not get an inclusion freebie just because her own writing is "read by hundreds of people" — she has to be the subject of media coverage, not the author of it, to get a Wikipedia article out of it, and that coverage has to be more than just a two-day blip of reaction to a single piece of her writing. Bearcat (talk) 18:42, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

User:Bearcat: Can you read Russian? There can't not be sources in Russian.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:45, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

We don't keep articles just because "better sources must surely exist somewhere" — to get an article kept on the basis of a prospect of improvement, hard evidence has to be definitively shown that the depth of sourcing needed to clear GNG absolutely, unequivocally does exist. It's not enough to just say that surely better sources probably maybe must exist somewhere — journalists, in fact, quite frequently seem more notable in theory than they actually are in fact, because our awareness of them through their bylines is often in contradiction with the negligible amount of reliable source coverage that actually gets generated about them by other people (which is the kind of sourcing that it takes to clear GNG.) Bearcat (talk) 18:58, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

User:Bearcat: We have a massive problem with so-called "USApedia," whereby we can't find enough sources in foreign languages and our overall content gives undue weight to the US. Hopefully your AFD will attract Russian speakers. Between you and I, I would've appreciated it if you'd continued the conversation I started at WP:LGBT Studies instead of rushing into an AFD.Zigzig20s (talk) 19:02, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

category: United States

enWP has a policy called "non-defining." Categories which are too broad and don't really contribute to ease of navigation are generally deleted. Now, I will admit that I am not the most knowledgeable about categorization and its functions, so if I'm off the mark, please enlighten me. Otherwise, I will be deleting this category label except from articles specific to our country. Paul Bragg is the article I'm looking at presently. If the label is used here, then it should be on most of the articles on English Wikipedia. rags (talk) 13:44, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

User:Ragityman: I see no Category:United States at Paul Bragg. What do you mean please?Zigzig20s (talk) 13:46, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Please disregard. My apologies. rags (talk) 15:18, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Ghorb Nooh

The article Ghorb Nooh has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

The coverage (references, external links, etc.) does not seem sufficient to justify this article passing Wikipedia:General notability guideline and the more detailed Wikipedia:Notability (companies) requirement. If you disagree and deprod this, please explain how it meets them on the talk page here in the form of "This article meets criteria A and B because..." and ping me back through WP:ECHO or by leaving a note at User talk:Piotrus. Thank you.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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Proposed deletion of Ghorb Karbala

The article Ghorb Karbala has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

The coverage (references, external links, etc.) does not seem sufficient to justify this article passing Wikipedia:General notability guideline and the more detailed Wikipedia:Notability (companies) requirement. If you disagree and deprod this, please explain how it meets them on the talk page here in the form of "This article meets criteria A and B because..." and ping me back through WP:ECHO or by leaving a note at User talk:Piotrus. Thank you.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:20, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

User:Piotrus: I do not remember creating these stubs (five years ago). Since they are both subsidiaries of Khatam-al Anbiya Construction Headquarters, perhaps we could save some time and merge them both with it?Zigzig20s (talk) 05:28, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

I am not sure if there is anything to merge - but I guess we could soft delete i.e. redirect those terms there? If you think this is fine, please go ahead and redirect it if you wouldn't mind. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:31, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

User:Piotrus: Yes, just redirect and add in the main article that those two subsidiaries were sanctioned. Why don't you do it?Zigzig20s (talk) 05:32, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Done. Cheers, --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:40, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

User:Piotrus: Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 05:40, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Pontotoc County, Mississippi

A tag has been placed on Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Pontotoc County, Mississippi requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. AusLondonder (talk) 17:12, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

User:AusLondonder: I replied on the talkpage. And the category is no longer empty.Zigzig20s (talk) 17:24, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Pride 2017

You are invited to create and improve LGBT-related content at Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects throughout the month of June as part of the fourth annual Wiki Loves Pride campaign. Feel free to add new and expanded content on the project's Results page. Happy editing! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 15:04, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

DYK for The Wabe

On 28 May 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article The Wabe, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Isadora Duncan danced at The Wabe in London's Hampstead to raise money for the cause of women's suffrage? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/The Wabe. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, The Wabe), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Mifter (talk) 00:02, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Myers-Hicks Place

Pretty creepy place. Loaded with snakes too! Magnolia677 (talk) 23:36, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

Magnolia677: Not quite the American Dream!Zigzig20s (talk) 23:38, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

Jocques Clemmons

I added James A. Cayce Homes to the lead - without it, it's not obvious to what "the" in the phrase refers. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 05:08, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

NRHP

I'm glad to see the work on Alabama NRHP topics you've been doing (and the other 10000 things you've been working on). I once had notions of finishing out Alabama and Wyoming, but real life work and home projects have left little time for that. Acroterion (talk) 04:59, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

User:Acroterion: Thanks. Earlier today, I was watching Condi Rice's PBS interview and she mentioned George Wallace and I saw he was from Barbour County, so I decided to check out if he grew up on a plantation. Actually his childhood home may be listed here, but are you able to find any RS please? Perhaps we could create a short article about it.Zigzig20s (talk) 05:23, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

This [11] doesn't look encouraging, and the landmarks register corroborates it [12]. Here's the Alabama register listing [13]. Acroterion (talk) 20:38, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

User:Acroterion: I am not entirely surprised that it was burned down, although somewhat surprised that it took so long. Is there a picture anywhere please?Zigzig20s (talk) 20:43, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

I've been looking around and haven't found anything yet. The odd thing is that the Alabama register says it burned in the 1980s, while the Dothan paper has 2008. It's always possible that they're talking about two different places that managed to burn on separate occasions - I can't tell if the Wallaces stayed in one place or lives in other places around Clio. Acroterion (talk) 20:47, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

User:Acroterion: Everything about George Wallace is rather odd to be honest. Perhaps it burned a little in the 1980s, was rebuilt, and burned down in 2008?Zigzig20s (talk) 21:33, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

They're different places - it would help if I had read the document in detail. The Clio house burned n 2008. The place listed on the register was on Eufaula Avenue in Clayton and was owned by Gov. & Mrs. Wallace. No street number. Acroterion (talk) 22:07, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

User:Acroterion: On Google Street View, number 71 looks like a big mansion?Zigzig20s (talk) 22:12, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

There are several like that - and right across the street a sidewalk disappears into the weeds in a vacant lot.Acroterion (talk) 02:19, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

User:Acroterion: Well, it looks like a huge mansion though. If random sheriffs can get rich off the state, he probably did too, don't you think? A known unknown. He had four children apparently.Zigzig20s (talk) 02:28, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Omran Sahel

The article Omran Sahel has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

The coverage (references, external links, etc.) does not seem sufficient to justify this article passing Wikipedia:General notability guideline and the more detailed Wikipedia:Notability (companies) requirement. If you disagree and deprod this, please explain how it meets them on the talk page here in the form of "This article meets criteria A and B because..." and ping me back through WP:ECHO or by leaving a note at User talk:Piotrus. Thank you.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:57, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

User:Piotrus: Why don't you just redirect it?Zigzig20s (talk) 09:03, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

We're on Twitter!

WikiLGBT is on Twitter!

Hello Zigzig20s! Follow the Wikimedia LGBT user group on Twitter at @wikilgbt for news, photos, and other topics of interest to LGBT Wikipedans and allies. Use #wikiLGBT to share any Wiki Loves Pride stuff that you would like to share (whether this month or any day of the year) or to alert folks to things that the LGBT Wikipedan community should know. RachelWex (talk) For more information about Wiki Loves Pride, → click here ←.

RachelWex 19:19, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

Grégoire Delacourt

Will you please forgive me for my abrupt response to your request of last February regarding the translation of this article. Well, I suppose we're all entitled our ups and downs. Well, actually only Gerda Arendt is entitled to ask me whatever wish she wants be satisfied. Your request is now partially fullfilled but you've owned the right to proofread my clumsy attempt at my English version of the French original (I have problems with references).

Yours, LouisAlain (talk) 16:05, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

Nomination of KSL Capital Partners for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article KSL Capital Partners is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/KSL Capital Partners until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.  Velella  ^{Velella Talk}   15:26, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Maurice Durand

Ah, yes - I remember those lighthouses. Quite an interesting grouping - I remember at the time thinking how much I liked his work. Happy to be of help. :-)

Incidentally, I spent the day at the National Gallery of Art at their exhibit of works by Frédéric Bazille. Quite nice - I've long been familiar with his work from reproductions, but don't think I've ever had the chance to see anything of his in person. I think he's about my favorite of the Impressionists; I love his sense of light and color, which one of the labels suggested may have been derived from growing up in the Languedoc. I can believe it, looking at the pieces on display.

Keep up the good work, and happy editing! --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 01:23, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Pontotoc

I have a few pics on file of Pontotoc. What is it you're looking for? Magnolia677 (talk) 10:09, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

I added a Pontotoc CSA monument here. Cheers. Magnolia677 (talk) 09:57, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

There are two dates on the photo because I took the picture in 2014, but uploaded it today. I have a few other photos of Pontotoc downtown which I will eventually upload. Very pretty place. Magnolia677 (talk) 10:10, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Shorthand

What does reqmap mean and why is it not written out in full? I am confused, even though I have BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 20:44, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

Spadaro

Hi zigzag20s, with the exception of the recent information regarding the US political controversy, I mostly translated the article from the Italian Wikipedia. Claíomh Solais (talk) 17:43, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

John McCluskey

Hi, thanks for flagging up the referencing issues with this ITN nomination, for going back and having another look after changes were made, and for changing your vote to support. Would it be ok to strikethrough the previous "oppose", just for clarity? Drchriswilliams (talk) 11:19, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

When you add WP:STRIKE markup, the "oppose" is still visible but indicates that your preference has changed since the initial comment was added. Drchriswilliams (talk) 11:30, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

RSN

Replied to you at WP:RSN. Didn't ping because that system doesn't always work (unless they've now fixed that problem?) - Sitush (talk) 05:56, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Hey dude

Can you not use the edit summaries to talk to other editors? (E.g.: "please don't put it back; it looks ridiculous"). I'm just worried about edit wars breaking out over a sensitive topic. So I think it's best to keep the edit summaries clean/ professional, subdued, etc. It's been pretty good so far. —Fluous (talk) 13:23, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

User:Fluous: Thank you for writing. I left a note on the talkpage yesterday. There is consensus not to use cross-outs.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:28, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Hi again, User:Fluous:. See here. Why is not showing up when one looks at the talkpage in normal mode though? There appears to be an error. So, you are forgiven. But I'm sure you can understand that it is frustrating to remove cross-outs constantly, even after consensus has been reached.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:29, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

User:Fluous: Do you know who added the new cross-outs that I had to remove today please? If the article talkpage is not working, they need a note on their talkpage. I think we are all in good faith here, but the talkpage issue is not helpful.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:32, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Hey, I agree. It might be AppaAliApsa; I'm not sure. They're all good dudes though. Also, I haven't been able to update the talk page at all. So weird. I dunno what's going on. I write things and submit it, and it doesn't show up. –Fluous (talk) 13:39, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

User:Fluous: Great job on adding all those listings, by the way.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:52, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Confederate monuments

There is an excellent resource on Confederate monuments here. Magnolia677 (talk) 15:30, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Removal of Confederate monuments and memorials was started today. Magnolia677 (talk) 18:19, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

User:Magnolia677: I know. I think the list was sufficient to be honest.Zigzig20s (talk) 19:44, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Just in Mississippi there are probably hundreds designated as state or NRHP sites, see [14][15][16][17]. Magnolia677 (talk) 20:44, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

User:Magnolia677:Yes, perhaps there could be a list for each state. Do you think the current list is incomplete?Zigzig20s (talk) 20:48, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

User:Magnolia677:I do think we should try to be comprehensive in our encyclopedic coverage. And perhaps you could drive around and take more pictures for us!Zigzig20s (talk) 20:53, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Breaking news!

I'd do this update, but am packing madly for departure to an undisclosed location in Wyoming (camping on private land) to view the solar eclipse on Monday, so will be off the grid soon with much prep happening now... (the camping part...) Montanabw^(talk) 02:06, 19 August 2017 (UTC): http://helenair.com/news/local/protesters-arrested-as-city-of-helena-removes-confederate-fountain/article_e51db803-2623-53ed-9534-32344cf51d00.html

User:Montanabw: Drama! Updated.Zigzig20s (talk) 02:26, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

User:Another Believer and User:Carptrash: The Confederate Memorial Fountain has been removed!Zigzig20s (talk) 02:31, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Emmanuel Macron

Here you are: End of story. Hope it helps; LouisAlain (talk) 17:49, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

Your revert of the tags

List of monuments and memorials of the Confederate States of America - Zig, you've been editing long enough to know not to remove maintenance tags like you just did, and then claim some excuse that I added them based on IDONTLIKEIT. The issues have been raised on the TP - and when veteran editors challenge POV and a host of other issues, you discuss it, you don't remove the tags. ^{Atsme📞📧} 05:19, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

A cup of coffee for you!

Thanks for your expansion and rescue of the Vichy Pastilles article. North America1000 02:27, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/2014 National Security Agency illegal seizure

Re your review: All you have to do is check that the five main DYK criteria have been met. You do not have to recommend adding pictures or fixing a few redlinks. If the article has the requisite 1500-character length, all paragraphs have at least one cite, and is written neutrally ("burst in" is a little iffy) with no close paraphrasing, and if the nominator has performed an adequate QPQ, it is ready to go and you can give it a tick. Yoninah (talk) 09:01, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Klionsky

*BUMP* your enquiry on Deaths 2017 Talk Page. Thanks. Ref ^(chew)(do) 20:05, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

Hi User:Refsworldlee. It's been archived. Could you please retrieve it for me? I'd like to create a stub at least.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:05, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Here it is verbatim from edit history:

Marc Klionsky

Hello. Is anyone able to find Marc Klionsky's exact date of death please? His obituary, published on October 17, says he "died last month".Zigzig20s (talk) 15:31, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

Passed away September 17, 2017, aged 90.[18] Ref ^(chew)(do) 20:06, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

Best wishes. Ref ^(chew)(do) 00:01, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

QPQ

Hi, I know there are a lot of rules at DYK, but you might want to choose a nomination by a veteran editor who is familiar with all the rules so it'll go smoothly. For example, look for a current nomination by Gerda Arendt or Cwmhiraeth. You can use the Reviewer's Template in the DYK toolbox (it shows up at the right when you click on "Review or comment"). If you have questions, I'd be happy to help; just drop me a line at my talk page. Best, Yoninah (talk) 19:28, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Open the edit window of the hook you're reviewing. Paste this template in. If you use the upper, blank template, you can replace the questions on each line with "y" for yes. Yoninah (talk) 19:48, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Oh, are you talking about creating your own nomination? Then go to Template talk:Did you know and scroll down a bit to To nominate an article. Write your article title in the blank box and click "Create nomination". That will open up the template. When you save that, you have to transclude your nomination under the correct date at Template talk:Did you know. Whew! There really are a lot of rules! Yoninah (talk) 19:51, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

In the nomination template under Reviewed, you can write "to come". Then you can write in the nomination that you reviewed, after you review it. Yoninah (talk) 19:52, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

You did great! I formatted the hooks for you. Yoninah (talk) 20:33, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

I did not notice this

but I will see if I can add a fewf things before heading off to my usual Wednesday gig. Thanks, Carptrash (talk) 22:06, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Karl Hoblitzelle

Hi, regarding your article, you need to put the reason for the subject's notability in the lead. Also, if you are a subscriber to Newspapers.com, you should be able to clip each article and link it, with an "open access" notation. Then the DYK reviewer can read the articles and check them for close paraphrasing. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 17:50, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

A person who owned a theatre company and supported a university is not notable. The only notable thing I see about him was being the first theatre owner in the Southwest to add sound and the first in the U.S. to install air conditioning. That notability should be added to the lead. And if you have a subscription to Newspapers.com, why aren't you clipping things for open access? Yoninah (talk) 18:15, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

nrhp reference

Hi, at John Green Sims House, the page is marked to be under active construction, i noticed after I started to edit there, after it popped up in my notifications for some reason. If you can use it, anyhow, below is a copy-paste-ready reference.

The NRHP reference there was:
<ref name="npsform">{{cite web|title=National Register of Historic Places Registration Form: John Green Sims House|url=https://npgallery.nps.gov/GetAsset/48724e93-d62a-48a8-9a36-902667d14ef7|website=National Park Service|publisher=United States Department of the Interior|accessdate=October 10, 2017}}</ref>

For Tennessee NRHPs, using the NRHP reference number rather than hard-coded URL in references works for the text document and also for the photos document, as in:
<ref name=nrhpdoc>{{cite web|url={{NRHP url|id=87001937}}|title=National Register of Historic Places Registration: John Green Sims House |publisher=[[National Park Service]]|author=Miranda T. Roche |date=July 10, 1987 |accessdate=October 10, 2017}} With {{NRHP url|id=87001937|photos=y|title=13 photos from 1985}}.</ref>

which displays as:

References

You can also use hard-coded references for both the text and photos docs. I don't claim that using the NRHP reference number is better, i just find it easier to use to cover both the docs once I verify that both the documents exist at an NP Gallery page like the NP Gallery page for John Green Sims House.

Bugging out, --doncram 16:08, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

User:doncram: I've just changed it to "under construction". Please feel free to edit it!Zigzig20s (talk) 16:09, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Musée de l'Histoire vivante

Done but I couldn't find any reference at all. See my talk page. Maybe you can try your luck. Just one question: Why did you want this article translated? LouisAlain (talk) 07:53, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Why did you want this Communist propaganda article translated? Xx236 (talk) 08:56, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

DYK for Whitefoord Russell Cole

On 14 November 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Whitefoord Russell Cole, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that when Whitefoord Russell Cole threatened striking workers with dismissal and pension loss in 1921, his house was "bombarded with bottles until its concrete porch was littered with glass"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Whitefoord Russell Cole. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Whitefoord Russell Cole), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Whitefoord Russell Cole has been nominated for Did You Know

Hello, Zigzig20s. Whitefoord Russell Cole, an article you either created or to which you significantly contributed,has been nominated to appear on Wikipedia's Main Page as part of Did you know. You can see the hook and the discussion here. You are welcome to participate! Thank you. APersonBot (talk!) 12:00, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Woodland Plantation (Church Hill, Mississippi)

Hi there Zigzig20s. I'm also going to ping @Billmeguire:, who has made a lot of edits to Woodland Plantation (Church Hill, Mississippi). I've been trying to find an exact location for Woodland Plantation. According to the map here, the center of the property is about 31°40′24.41″N 91°13′38.38″W. However, the house on the property--which has three dormer windows on each side (see https://www.apps.mdah.ms.gov/nom/prop/15282.pdf) and should be easy to spot from a satellite view--is not to be found. It's very unusual for a NRHP home to have its exterior completely renovated. I wonder if it's been de-listed (or if I missed it!). Cheers. Magnolia677 (talk) 12:10, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

User:Magnolia677: I have no idea. Bill may know more.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:29, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Good People Beget

Hi, Zig,

Sorry, I looked both in the LDS site (FamilySearch.org) and at Ancestry.com, and neither of them seems to have the book. - Nunh-huh 22:13, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

I found someone willing to do lookups in this book. What is it you wanted from it? - Nunh-huh 05:14, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

There are no Aldrich's in the book. - Nunh-huh 22:17, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

The book doesn't trace all lines backwards, it only covers the descendants of Rudolph Frist of Kent Co., Delaware, whose son Henry Frist was born there in 1758. So that seems a little late to be called a planter. I can tell you (but not from this book, which doesn't cover it) that Senator William Frist is a descendant of John Atkinson (1638-1715) of Bury, England and Newbury, Massachusetts, through his mother. John Atkinson was the first owner of the Atkinson House. - Nunh-huh 07:44, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

It's pretty much straight lineage without a lot of extra details. The book mentions Meridian as anything but a place name only once: "On 18 February 1905 Jake bought a large home in Meridian, Lauderdale County, Mississippi, at 1503 Twenty-Fourth Avenue from Charles P. and Mattie Wetherbee for $4000. Meridian could not then be described as the "Old South," which was much to the advantage of the newcomers. The destruction wrought by the Civil War and the subsequent rebuilding made the place seem decidedly up to date and progressive. The trolley line ran in front of the house and cows grazed in back. It was one of the largest homes in town, covered with cupolas, balconies, bays, porches, and gingerbread typical of the Victorian era.". - Nunh-huh 04:00, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

User:Nunh-huh: Thanks. Was Meridian in a Jim Crow-free zone and is Didion lying? In any case, is the house listed on the NRHP?Zigzig20s (talk) 19:07, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Re: Stephen Tuck

No, it was more or less a prank page about someone who attended a university. No more than about 20 words in total. Feel free to create a new page, if you feel the subject is notable. If you have any questions, please contact me at my talk page. Ian Manka 21:20, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Mount Calvary Lutheran Church (Beverly Hills, California)

The article Mount Calvary Lutheran Church (Beverly Hills, California) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

non-notable church that fails WP:GNG.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. TM 17:16, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Mount Calvary Lutheran Church (Beverly Hills, California)

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Mount Calvary Lutheran Church (Beverly Hills, California) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a company, corporation or organization, but it does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. TM 02:40, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

User:Namiba: There must be ways to retrieve the architect and famous parishioners, but that's not a priority for me right now. Do you mind if I move this to userspace please? Otherwise you can delete it and I'll try to recreate it with more RS later.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:59, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

James Geddes Stahlman

You apparently didn't bother to read what I wrote. It was a paraphrase. If you want to put in a quote, then put in the words and quotation marks. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 18:12, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

It's Close Paraphrasing. That's what I wanted to avoid, and that's why I asked User:Carptrash for a second opinion. I guess I'll add quotation marks until we find a way to flesh it out.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:17, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

ArbCom 2017 election voter message

Hello, Zigzig20s. Voting in the 2017 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

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Resolved

You might want to watch

this short min-documentary. [19] Carptrash (talk) 18:58, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

Nomination of Ed Buck for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Ed Buck is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ed Buck until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Bearcat (talk) 21:57, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

Ed Buck

Just saying that somebody was a "household name" is not a notability criterion per se. The article would still require much more substance and much more sourcing about his specific role in the campaign before he could be considered notable for it, and the dead guy in his bedroom has to disappear no matter what. Bearcat (talk) 22:06, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

What part of what I said about the dead guy suggests that I didn't read the article? I said that content has to disappear from the article entirely, not "where is it?" Bearcat (talk) 22:17, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

Content which is that deeply sensitive requires considerably more than just one single source for it. Per our WP:BLP rules, we have to write our articles conservatively and with deference to the subject's personal privacy rights in sensitive matters that could be construed as potentially criminal — so we would require evidence of much more widespread coverage for it in reliable sources before it was appropriate for us to include such content at all. Bearcat (talk) 22:23, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

Yes.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:26, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

Dunbar Rowland

Hi Zigzig20s, many thanks for the Barnstar. As head of the Mississippi Department of Archives and History from 1902 until 1937, Dunbar Rowland made significant contributions archiving the History of Mississippi. Glad you approve! Woodlot (talk) 21:28, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Rosa Newmarch

Why thank you kindly. It'd been a while - I didn't even remember creating that one. :-)

Keep up the good work, and happy editing! --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 17:43, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

Moving our conversation

That Forrest monument (or perhaps "monstrosity" is a better word) that you are looking for an article about it not really the sort of sculpture I do. When I write articles I mostly use sources that I have at home. I have a good sculpture and architecture library and although I will augment articles with www references, I prefer not to. I have no mention of that thing here so prefer not to have at it. Also my other issues are not so much feeling unappreciated (the low-priority thing was as much a joke as anything else) and although I have not done a s much as you have on wikipedia, I've been here for many years and I understand how things work. What I have with the Confederate List is a disagreement as to what constitutes a monument or memorial and what refers to the Confederacy and with the meaning of the chart or graph that is presented as a sort of center piece of the article. As if the whole point of the article is to prove what racists Southerners were and are rather than just presenting a list. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 15:47, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

User:Carptrash: I created the Confederate Memorial Fountain (Helena, Montana), which is not in the South. No, I don't think removing the statues will end racism, and to be honest I think this is what real racists want--they want to hide the evidence and use more coded language (buildings named after planters/Confederates that very few people would know about). The SPLC is naive. I can e-mail you a specific example if you enable 'e-mail this user.'Zigzig20s (talk) 18:51, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

The email thing does not seem to work, try carptrash at gmail dot com This message will self-destruct in 15 seconds or you could delete it. Carptrash (talk) 21:12, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

Invitation to join Women in Red

		Thank you for creating several articles on women and their works over the past couple of months. We have become aware of your contributions thanks to research undertaken by Bobo.03 at the University of Minnesota. You might be interested in becoming a member of our WikiProject Women in Red where we are actively trying to reduce Wikipedia's content gender gap. If you would just like to receive messages about our activities without becoming a member, you can simply add your name to our mailing list. If you would prefer to not receive additional notices of our monthly activities, you can let us know on our opt-out list. In any case, thank you for actively contributing to the coverage of women (currently, 17.09% of English Wikipedia's biographies). Happening in September: Hispanic and Latina women Women in the Olympics Women from New Zealand #1day1woman Global Initiative
		(To subscribe: Women in Red/English language mailing list and Women in Red/international list. Unsubscribe: Women in Red/Opt-out list)

--Ipigott (talk) 16:29, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Karl Hoblitzelle

Hello! Your submission of Karl Hoblitzelle at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 23:02, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Jones S. Hamilton has been nominated for Did You Know

Hello, Zigzig20s. Jones S. Hamilton, an article you either created or to which you significantly contributed,has been nominated to appear on Wikipedia's Main Page as part of Did you know. You can see the hook and the discussion here. You are welcome to participate! Thank you. APersonBot (talk!) 12:00, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Harvey Silbert has been accepted

Harvey Silbert, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.
The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can create articles yourself, and don't have to post a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for Creation if you prefer.

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ProgrammingGeek ^talktome 20:29, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Jones S. Hamilton

Hello! Your submission of Jones S. Hamilton at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Gaia Octavia Agrippa ^Talk 21:59, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Frank P. Gates has been nominated for Did You Know

Hello, Zigzig20s. Frank P. Gates, an article you either created or to which you significantly contributed,has been nominated to appear on Wikipedia's Main Page as part of Did you know. You can see the hook and the discussion here. You are welcome to participate! Thank you. APersonBot (talk!) 12:01, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

Alabama

Name	Founded	Location	Founders	Monuments erected	Disbanded	Comments
Thomas Randolph Thomasson 2471	August 20, 1983	Andalusia	56 members all direct descendants of Thomas Randolph Thomasson and his wife, Sarah (Roach)			”The Thomas Randolph Thomasson Chapter was organized with fifty-six members, the largest number of charter members for a chapter at that time.”

Carptrash (talk) 00:45, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

PS. My guess is that the Chapter number 2471 means that there are 2470 other chapters started before this one. Food for thought. Carptrash (talk) 03:14, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

User:Carptrash: I am not sure how we would retrieve all the chapters. This may be too much work for Wikipedia, unless there is one or two sources we can cite.Zigzig20s (talk) 20:08, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Well there is a UDC web site and organization who might be convinced to help if we don't start off with the SLPC chart or turn it into propaganda piece. I don't mind contacting them, i am already in touch with a FL chapter about using some pictures of theirs. Let's keep it on the burner for a bit longer - unless you feel like jumping right in. It would be the deep end of the pool for sure. Carptrash (talk) 20:12, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

University of Missisippi Photos for Frank P. Gates

Hi Zigzig20s: Here are a few of the requested photos. They're not super great quality, and I don't have all of them on your list, but perhaps this will help us get to DYK: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:University_of_Mississippi_Bondurant_Hall_Front.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:University_of_Mississippi_Hill_Hall.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:University_of_Mississippi_Longstreet_Hall.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:University_of_Mississippi_Barr_Hall.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:University_of_Mississippi_Vardaman_Hall.jpg Bob Cummings (talk) 16:29, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Monuments and memorials of the Confederate States of America

Thanks for all the 'thanks'. Unfortunately, I feel like my work at List of monuments and memorials of the Confederate States of America and creating many new stub articles has rubbed a couple editors the wrong way, so I am going to focus on other topic areas for a while. Keep on truckin! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 04:02, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

User:Another Believer: Don't get discouraged!Zigzig20s (talk) 01:55, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

The Force of the majority

Hi For Chile, we should create a new article. New Majority is not The Force of the Majority. The first have split into two alliances. --Panam2014 (talk) 11:31, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Armistead Maupin

Hi, Zigzig20s. I've corrected the relationship of Armistead Maupin to General Lawrence O'Bryan Branch in his article: the general was his great-great-grandfather, not his grandfather. If you read the quoted source carefully, you'll note that the person speaking about "Grandpa Branch" is Armistead Maupin's grandmother (whose maiden name was Mary Armisted Jones, and who married Alfred McGhee Maupin, but who is annoyingly referred to in Logical Family only as Mimi). This is a book that would have been much improved if it included full names, some dates, and a family tree, but alas like many autobiographies it makes for confused genealogists. I also found an interview with Sarah Jane Morris who says that she is Maupin's second cousin, so they would not share a grandparent, but a great-grandparent. - Nunh-huh 09:31, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

[edit conflict] User:Nunh-huh: Yes, I just finished reading chapter 18 about his grandparents, and I thought something was off. However on page 17, it looks like that's Maupin himself saying this to his school friends, especially as it ends with "Mimi still sleeps in his bed." But on the next page, one gets the impression that his grandmother used the phrase "Grandpa Branch" and that's why he's referring to him that way too. It is confusing.Zigzig20s (talk) 09:46, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

DYK for Charles P. Fahey

On 17 January 2018, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Charles P. Fahey, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Charles P. Fahey. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Charles P. Fahey), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Vanamonde (talk) 04:21, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Incomplete DYK nomination

Hello! Your submission of Template:Did you know nominations/Darnell Hunt at the Did You Know nominations page is not complete; if you would like to continue, please link the nomination to the nominations page as described in step 3 of the nomination procedure. If you do not want to continue with the nomination, tag the nomination page with {{db-g7}}, or ask a DYK admin. Thank you. DYKHousekeepingBot (talk) 21:26, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

User:Yoninah: What is this about please?Zigzig20s (talk) 23:01, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

You forgot to list it at WP:DYKN. Add it under the date the article was created (November 20). Regarding the QPQ, choose one by User:Gerda Arendt or User:Cwmhiraeth. Using the reviewer's template on the nomination page of the hook, it shouldn't be too hard. Yoninah (talk) 16:38, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

User:Yoninah: Where's the QPQ again please?Zigzig20s (talk) 17:08, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

The reviewer's template? When you open the nomination you want to review, there's a toolbox to the right which includes the reviewer's template. Choose a QPQ from WP:DYKN. Yoninah (talk) 20:05, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

It looks like the 2 available hooks from Cwmhiraeth are both double nominations. If you want a single hook to review, try Template:Did you know nominations/Johannes Kalitzke, Template:Did you know nominations/Johann Balthasar König, or Template:Did you know nominations/St. Jakobus, Rüdesheim. Yoninah (talk) 20:08, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

Zigzig20s, it's been three weeks since you nominated the article, and the quid pro quo (QPQ) review has still not been provided. You need to do a review soon if you wish to continue pursuing this nomination. Please let us know your plans on the nomination page, which is where you should post a link to the QPQ review when you've completed it. (Unfortunately, the three that Yoninah suggested have been taken already and completed.) Many thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:30, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

User:BlueMoonset: I tried to do one, but it was taken over by someone else.Zigzig20s (talk) 15:38, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

Chip was moved

I moved "Our Confederate Soldiers" Monument to the section on court house monuments. I also deleted the reference as unneeded since there is a article of it's own that is linked. The list is so long that as little detail as possible is best. Thanks C. W. Gilmore (talk) 02:07, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

User:C. W. Gilmore: Thank you! Perhaps the picture could be added to the list?Zigzig20s (talk) 02:09, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Sure, let me look it up. C. W. Gilmore (talk) 02:12, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

OK, a picture of CHIP is up and just a note on that page. It is very long and being added to by the day, so please keep the entries short (per TP consensus). If the information does not have another page to redirect to, then list in at List of monuments erected by the United Daughters of the Confederacy or another such page were more details are welcome. Thanks again for the help. C. W. Gilmore (talk) 15:53, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Darnell Hunt

Hello! Your submission of Darnell Hunt at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 02:22, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Happy holidays/Merry Christmas!

Happy Holidays

This user wishes you a very Happy Holiday season.

Marquardtika (talk) 06:12, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

	User:Marquardtika: Thank you. Merry Christmas!
	Zigzig20s (talk) 10:07, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

The Jewish Confederates

Hi User:Maile66: Never done this before. Is this how it's supposed to be done please?Zigzig20s (talk) 06:40, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

Looks correct to me. Nice job on the article and DYK. — Maile (talk) 12:34, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

User:Maile66: Thank you! I read the book years ago and felt this was the right time to create it.Zigzig20s (talk) 15:38, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

Leonard Shoen

Well, Merry Christmas indeed, and Happy New Year! I don't see any sources for Leonard Shoen's ancestry; I don't think anyone's done that research. -Nunh-huh 22:08, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

User:Nunh-huh: Do you think I should trim the unreferenced content and remove the categories then? It might be in Luke Krueger's book but I haven't read it and the citation isn't clear.Zigzig20s (talk) 06:40, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

I've requested pages.Zigzig20s (talk) 07:09, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood

I was thinking earlier today that we have the same problem with this article[20] - seems very promotional. I'm off to watch tv now with my wife, but if you don't I'll probably remove it. This is an encyclopedia after all. Doug Weller talk 19:38, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Not sure what I'm going to do yet, I'd forgotten Danvers Statement which I've edited in the past. Doug Weller talk 08:23, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Precious three years!

Precious

Three years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:21, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

User:Gerda Arendt: Thanks. What happened three years ago please?Zigzig20s (talk) 08:23, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

There's a link, no? ----Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:31, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

DYK for Fountain E. Pitts

On 12 January 2018, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Fountain E. Pitts, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that after the American Civil War, "Fighting Parson" Fountain E. Pitts helped grow poppies to make opium in Nashville, Tennessee? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Fountain E. Pitts. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Fountain E. Pitts), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Alex Shih (talk) 12:04, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of The Polo Magazine

The article The Polo Magazine has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Fails WP:GNG, no independent sources.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Yunshui ^雲_水 08:28, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Blaoui Houari

On 20 July 2017, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Blaoui Houari, which you nominated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Ad Orientem (talk) 15:05, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

YGM

Hello, Zigzig20s. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

re: WP:RX request Softlavender (talk) 02:35, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Assessment of article "Martín Vizcarra"

Hi. I noticed you placed the banner with an assessment, but why did you rate it "low"? I mean, the guy is the president of Peru. I checked the assessment of the presidents Jimmy Morales, Sebastián Piñera and Danilo Medina, and they have at least a "mid" rating. Thinker78 (talk) 03:35, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

User:Thinker78: It's the default assessment but you're right. Please change it and expand the article if you can! I read about him briefly in the CFR newsletter a few days ago but haven't seen much else in the press so far.Zigzig20s (talk) 03:49, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Vitaly Butyrin

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Vitaly Butyrin requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person, a group of people, an individual animal, an organization (band, club, company, etc.), web content, or an organized event, but it does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. Nosebagbear (talk) 15:31, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Hello, I've nominated an article Vitaly Butyrin under A7 grounds. I've avoided just using the creater talk-tag since I imagine you know the AfD system vastly better than me.

I did have a look in the online refs for something that would give clear importance grounds, but nothing directly came to mind. Nosebagbear (talk) 15:31, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Ping

Per comments at my talkpage about this source, of interest to you is: http://helenahistory.org/confederate-fountain-hill-park.htm Montanabw^(talk) 18:58, 15 April 2018 (UTC).

Mollie and Neel Glenn House

Could you please remove the NRHP document reference from Mollie and Neel Glenn House. It doesn't work; it is not your source for any information in the article. I'd say "please don't add it (i.e. delete it) if you're not going to check it", but I would really rather you keep it in and try it and like it (usually).

By the way, I got notification of the article, and I was going to happily refine the reference to add author and date of prep and more. I like it when others improve upon my own articles. But I don't want to follow in order to check and criticize. I don't want to have to figure out how to counter abuse of the new feature (ask Elkman to remove it, despite it really helping me? ask Elkman to add negative warning language? try to recruit NRHP editor others to combat abuse? be the enforcer everywhere myself, e.g. by opening wp:ANI incidents or otherwise opening conflict resolution processes at Wikipedia level? )

You could add https://www.tn.gov/news/2012/9/10/six-tennessee-sites-added-to-the-national-register-of-historic-places2.html and use it to add a bit to the article.

I do hope the MAW DYK comes thru....

Cheers, --Doncram (talk) 04:10, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

User:Doncram: I've just removed it. I actually thought you would want me to keep it in. The only problem with removing it is that the DOI may upload the PDF at some point...Zigzig20s (talk) 04:17, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

User:Doncram: Another problem: the NRIS link is this, which does not give any info. Instead, it should be this. This is just one example, but it does this every time we use the Elkman tool. Could the tool give the correct link instead?Zigzig20s (talk) 04:51, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

Mongolian names

Hi, just wanted to let you know I've corrected the errors in Ganbaatar, which is a given name, not a surname. And I wanted to ask you if you've created any other articles about Mongolian names, as those will need to be corrected as well. Dr. Vogel (talk) 14:37, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

zig zag/zig name

u have paripatetic interests, from italian violinists to Tennessee historic sites. Please tell. :) --Doncram (talk) 23:57, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

DeFord Bailey article assessment

Thanks for taking a look at the article on Mr. Bailey. Am interested in knowing why you assessed it as start class. I think the article is at least C, maybe even a B. Thanks, Shearonink (talk) 03:50, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

User:Shearonink: Yes, probably a C--feel free to reassess it as such. Too short for B though.Zigzig20s (talk) 03:51, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

I agree on at least being a C - I think most of the assessments are several years old and outdated. Is there a length requirement for articles to be assessed as B Quality or a GA? Shearonink (talk) 03:55, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

User:Shearonink: Wikipedia:Assessing articles.Zigzig20s (talk) 03:57, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

That essay says nothing about the length of the article being part of the various Project's assessment criteria. Shearonink (talk) 04:02, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

User:Shearonink: It does not look "mostly complete" to me. You could probably expand the article. It looks too concise. I am not interested in this topic anyway, I just wanted to add WikiProject Tennessee to the talkpage. I don't even know how I found the article. It must have been a wikilink. Happy editing!Zigzig20s (talk) 04:06, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Ok thx. Cheers - Shearonink (talk) 04:08, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Bust of Cristiano Ronaldo

Hello! As someone who edits statue/memorial/monument articles often, I'm wondering if you have an opinion on whether or not this article (currently redirected) belongs in the main space. If you have any thoughts re: notability, please feel free to contribute to this discussion. Thank you. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 16:49, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

User:Another Believer: Based on weight of RS, probably. It would look better with a picture of the bust.Zigzig20s (talk) 17:44, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

If you don't mind, could you share your thoughts in the section linked above? I am trying to centralize discussion there. And yes, I agree 100% re: image. I am hoping someone will add an image soon. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 18:37, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Re:IP address

Hello. No problem :-) I think there is no need to block this ip user. We should report him, when he will continue to vandalize after final warning. Regards Cynko (talk) 13:51, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Melinda Paulsen

Hi, I saw you had some trouble with this review. When you choose to review a nomination by a respected DYK regular with over 1,000 DYK credits, you do not need to question the sources (also, if you've reviewed as many of her nominations as I have, you would already know the sources). No action has been taken on this for over 2 weeks. Would you like me to finish up the review for you? Yoninah (talk) 17:03, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

User:Yoninah: Yes please. I take sourcing extremely seriously on Wikipedia.Zigzig20s (talk) 17:09, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Will do. Yoninah (talk) 17:09, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

MediaNews Group -> Digital First Media Merger

@Zigzig20s: I tagged the two pages for merger (MediaNews Group -> Digital First Media) - since the former company is now defunct and functions as the latter. Any assistance regarding this would be appreciated in sorting this out. Also some rather saucy criticism of the group / Alden with figured released yesterday with their operating profits and margins; check the article out here. Shaded0 (talk) 17:43, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Team Management Systems

The article Team Management Systems has been proposed for deletion. The proposed deletion notice added to the article should explain why.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion.

I see your creation of the page was as a translation from the German (which may need looking at too?), see the deletion comments for reasons. Thanks Sjgknight (talk) 06:03, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

billy the kid and pat garrett at Flying H

I started up Flying H Ranch, in New Mexico, which has association with Billy the Kid and Pat Garrett and a couple other major participants in the Lincoln County War. The NRHP document is pretty confusing though, mentioning a Garrett house and giving directions to it but then it is not clear to me if that house is included or not. Could you possibly take a look, and see what you think? Seems like this is more interesting/important than a lot of other NRHPs. --Doncram (talk) 18:07, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Hmm, it seems the Garrett house is separate, and is NRHP-listed separately, and is currently a redlink unless i go ahead and start it. The MRA document is helpful, and there are two NRHP docs now cited in the Flying H Ranch article. Combo DYK potential? DYK that a dugout where Billy the Kid hid out on the Flying H Ranch, and where Pat Garrett lived, survive and are NRHP-listed? Hmm, maybe a combo is too complex; simple seems better for DYK. :(

DYK that Billy the Kid came back to the Flying H Ranch, where he had worked as a cowboy, to hide out, during the Lincoln County War?

DYK that sheriff Pat Garrett wrote lies about about Billy the Kid, at his home east of Roswell, New Mexico? --Doncram (talk) 18:28, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

User:Doncram: Thanks for the note. I haven't read enough about the history of NM.Zigzig20s (talk) 06:29, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Community Building (Sparta, Tennessee)

At Talk:Community Building (Sparta, Tennessee), are we at a silly impasse? I feel i have come more than half way. :) Would you feel more responsible if the article actually did show the Tennessee map (which it should be changed to do), which would then show the location halfway across the state from where it actually is? It would seem silly for me to fix the map display only. --Doncram (talk) 20:30, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

User:Doncram: Sorry, I never deal with coordinates and I let others add maps. I focus on texts. As Wikipedia is a collaborative work in progress, if you know how to add/fix the coordinates/maps, please do it. Thanks!Zigzig20s (talk) 20:34, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Okay, you can do that, be that way! :( Or, in other words, one of the most important principles for participating here is that no one can force anyone else to do any specific thing; we are all volunteers and all that. Pretty much always there is another way to get anything done. And on coordinates, I do have some other plans for how they can be fixed up somewhat systematically.

But, I did make it easy for you to fix. And just to be a bit stubborn, i just went ahead and set "locmapin=Tennessee" so the map shows (as you requested), and now it shows it shows the location in completely the wrong county across the state, and i'm not going to fix it. You can fix it or not, it is your article. :( Meh! --Doncram (talk) 00:53, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

User:Doncram: No it's not. I created it but no one WP:OWNs an article.Zigzig20s (talk) 07:37, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

You can say you're not responsible for the error showing there, but it wouldn't be there if you didn't put it there and decline to fix it after you were notified of it. Ownership is a good thing, mostly, i.e. in editors taking responsibility and pride in their work. I am pretty sure you must be proud --and you should be-- of your work in Wikipedia in general, or why else would you participate here. However I decline to follow and check all of your work. If you are knowingly leaving misinformation in your articles, that's your problem. --Doncram (talk) 13:58, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

I am not. The Elkman did it. Anyway, I have removed the coordinates.Zigzig20s (talk) 14:07, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Okay, that's fine. Hopefully our having this disagreement is okay by both of us; it is reasonable to have some disagreement sometimes.

FYI, I responded to your question at wt:NRHP, hopefully it is a help. --Doncram (talk) 19:24, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Myron Rush

Hello. I moved his death entry at Deaths in 2018 to Deaths in January 2018, as Cornell University announced he died on January 8. However, since past monthly DI articles are considered archives for only notable deaths (namely, blue links), he was removed. If you wish to create a notable article for him, he can be re-added. Thanks. — Wyliepedia @ 00:26, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

User:CAWylie: I've just created a stub. Feel free to add it back and perhaps expand the article. Thanks!Zigzig20s (talk) 00:39, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Cool. I added him back to DI January 2018 and also a bit to his article. — Wyliepedia @ 04:00, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

starting AFDs

If you're starting AFDs by hand, you may want to consider installing WP:twinkle instead; its' a Javascript tool that makes such things much easier. --Nat Gertler (talk) 16:06, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

map requests

Hi, at Talk:Polk County Courthouse (Tennessee) and some other Talk pages, you've added a maprequest which I then removed. From there:

To answer map request that was here: replace "locmapin = " by "locmapin = Tennessee" to get a map. --Doncram (talk) 22:05, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

What? This article needs a map. The request should be restored until it's been added to the article.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:23, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

I am sorry if I am mis-understanding something here. I wonder if there is some wp:POINTY attempt to disrupt Wikipedia to make a point about accuracy of coordinates? Relating to my pointing out that the coordinates you included in a different article were grossly wrong, and my suggesting that you change them. Or maybe I am completely wrong.

But you know how to put a map into the article. Just do it. Or don't you, seriously? It seems disruptive to call for others to come and add the word "Tennessee" to the infobox, and then to have to change the Talk page, too. So that they would be responsible if the coordinates are wrong, and that is then evident in the map? Seriously now, stop pretending if that is what you are doing. --Doncram (talk) 22:56, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

User:Doncram: No, I don't know. I focus on text. And it's not disruptive at all. Wikipedia is a collaborative work in progress. Since you deleted all the map requests, I expect you to add the maps to said articles. Thanks!Zigzig20s (talk) 22:58, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

To put a map into the article, replace "locmapin=" by "locmapin=Tennessee". Now you do know. Seriously. --Doncram (talk) 23:00, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

User:Doncram: I don't understand. Some editors, I assume, enjoy adding maps. I enjoy working on texts. Why am I being told what to do here? And the reqmap tag should only be removed from talkpages once the map has been added to said article.Zigzig20s (talk) 23:04, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

You really should WP:ASSUMEGOODFAITH. Especially after all the good work we have been doing as a team.Zigzig20s (talk) 23:10, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Louisiana Purchase map file (.png) which enhances its article

I thought you just started with the map requests, after I told you one of your locations was way off. Now I see you have added many more map requests to Tennessee NRHP articles recently, many/most of the 303 items in Category:Wikipedia requested maps in Tennessee. All of your ones there should be removed, though, I think, because you don't actually want maps to be created, you apparently just want someone else to be responsible for putting the word "Tennessee" into the NRHP infobox so that a point location is shown on standard Tennessee map, generated on the fly. You are using 22 characters on a Talk page ({{reqmapin|Tennessee}}) to request someone else put 9 characters into a mainspace page, which is bound to be confusing to any of the relatively few good faith map creators available, who are looking for genuine requests. What {{reqmapin}} is for, is to ask for someone to actually create a map image file, i.e. a PDF or PNG or JPG, like to show the outline of a specific area or to show multiple locations. Such as for Jackson Purchase (U.S. historical region), where a map outlining the region would enhance the article. Like to request a map as appears in List of National Historic Landmarks in Indiana which permanently shows the NHLs, with fixed labels positioned carefully (and which has to be manually updated, perhaps with use of "reqmapin" request, if/when a new NHL needs to be added). Or like to get a map showing the outline/boundaries of a historic district, as has been done for a number of NRHP historic district articles in the Good article or Featured article process. I suppose the maprequest system is like the photo request system, rarely used, but handy sometimes for an editor planning a trip. However a big number of erroneous/mistaken map requests is likely to be overwhelming to any prospective map editors, obscuring the few genuine/deserving requests in the system. Have you gotten any response about your map requests, besides this? Or is this response (i.e. telling you your requests are off-base) the only one you have ever gotten? --Doncram (talk) 12:44, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

User:Magnolia677 has added many maps as a result of the reqmap tags, yes. There are editors who enjoy this--I do not. Please just let it go--you don't have to feel responsible for reqmap tags on talkpages--and there is no deadline to replace them with an actual map. It will get done whenever an editor wants to do it. But removing the reqmap tag is counter-productive.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:13, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

I think you misunderstand. [[User:Magnolia677 may have fixed a few articles for you but I don't know if they or anyone else are willing or happy to follow you to many more articles. I grant I myself don't participate in the reqmapin system; it would be more relevant for Magnolia677 or other map-creators who do participate say what they think. What i think is that there may be a few editors willing to create map files, where a specially-created map can enhance an article, and they are presumably cooperating with the reqmapin system. And there are many editors, myself included, who are willing/happy to help out in other ways, including when a new editor doesn't get something and is learning. We are all volunteers / this is a collaborative project / rah rah and all that. And I agree we can all specialize and choose to do what we like to do. Further I believe it generally does not work, is counter-productive to complain that someone didn't do something, e.g. didn't develop an article as far "as i would do" in some respect. The only valid grounds to criticize someone is if they are doing something that hurts, e.g. that undermines existing systems which are working, e.g. that clearly causes more work for others, e.g. creates embarrassing situations in mainspace and/or demands others attention or work to clean up after them. Here this is an odd case, where you have a mental block of some kind and/or are choosing to draw a line, but AFAICT you are taking more effort NOT to do the thing, and putting demands into the reqmapin system that I think will be perplexing and cause more effort on others' part, because the demands themselves don't make sense. This seems to be the bad kind of behavior, one way to define what is bad/disruptive behavior here. Perhaps you could just add some kind of text explanation at each Talk page to mitigate, but I don't see what you could say that is not ridiculous ("I ask that others put in the word 'Tennessee' into the article's infobox, because I don't do that. To be clear, although I am asking via the reqmapin system, I am not actually requesting for a custom map to be created."???). So it seems to me that this behavior is of the damaging kind that we should avoid. Perhaps you could just leave off the map but not place a demand asking others to fix it?

Also, I can ask Elkman to fix the infobox generator, so that the word is put there again; it is no longer put in 100% of the time, as a result of his recent changes. You are not deleting the word which gets the infobox to create the map, I think; I think you are just unwilling to fix the omission. I have made this request already, along with others, and I don't like to have to beg to get this one done when there are other requests I would rather he prioritize. Argh.--Doncram (talk) 19:40, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Zigzig20s. You have new messages at Template:Did you know nominations/List of Mexican-American War monuments and memorials.
Message added 11:56, 6 April 2018 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Leaving this message since the first attempt at a ping seemed to have failed. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 11:56, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Lynching of Amos Miller

Hello! Your submission of Lynching of Amos Miller at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 21:36, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

The Right Stuff June 2018

June 2018

FROM THE EDITOR

The Right Stuff Returns

By Lionelt

Fellow members, I'm pleased to announce the return of the newsletter of WikiProject Conservatism. And considering the recent downsizing at The Signpost the timing could not be better. The Right Stuff will help keep you apprised of what's happening in conservatism at Wikipedia and in the world. The Right Stuff welcomes submissions including position pieces, instructional articles, or short essays addressing important conservatism-related issues. Post submissions here.

Add the Project Discussion page to your watchlist for the latest updates at WikiProject Conservatism Watch (Discuss this story)

---

ARBITRATION REPORT

Russian Agents Editing at American Politics?

By Lionelt

After a series of unfortunate events largely self-created, bureaucrat and admin Andrevan was the subject of an Arbitration case for conduct unbecoming. Prior to the case getting underway Andrevan resigned as bureaucrat and admin. A widely discussed incident was when he suggested that some editors he described as "pro-Trump" were paid Russian agents. This resulted in a number of editors from varied quarters denouncing the allegations and voicing support for veteran editors including Winkelvi and the notorious MONGO.

Editors who faced Enforcement action include SPECIFICO (no action), Factchecker atyourservice (three month topic ban ARBAPDS), Netoholic (no action) and Anythingyouwant (indef topic ban ARBAPDS). (Discuss this story)

IN THE MEDIA

Breitbart Versus Wikipedia

By Lionelt

Breitbart News, in response to Facebook's decision to use Wikipedia as a source to fight fake news, has declared war on our beloved pedia. The article in Haaretz describes the Facebook arrangement as Wikipedia's "greatest test in years" as well as a "massive threat" to the encyclopedia that anyone can edit. Breitbart's targeting of Wikipedia has resulted in an "epic battle" with respect to editing at the Breitbart article. The article has also recently experienced a dramatic increase in traffic with 50,000 visitors according to Haaretz. There is no love lost between Breitbart and Wikipedia where editors at the Reliable Sources Noticeboard have criticized the news websites unreliability and have compared it to The Daily Mail. (Discuss this story)

---

DISCUSSION REPORT

Liberty and Trump and Avi, Oh my!

By Lionelt

President Donald Trump Speaks at Liberty University Commencement Ceremony

There are several open discussions at the Project:

• There is an RFC regarding Liberty University and its relationship to President Trump; see discussion
• Activist and commentator Avi Yemini is listed at AFD; see discussion

Recently closed discussions include Anti-abortion movements which was not renamed, and an RFC at Trump–Russia dossier. (Discuss this story)

WPConservatism

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Delivered: 11:12, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Stats need updating

Hi, Zig - Belle Meade needs the demographic section updated. I used the following site for data which is current to 2016. ^{Atsme📞📧} 23:00, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

User:Atsme: Thanks. Not sure where to find that. Don't you think the lede is now too long though?Zigzig20s (talk) 02:11, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Trim it where you feel it needs trimming. ^{Atsme📞📧} 06:02, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Ida New and William Madison Turner Farm

Have you abandoned the Ida New and William Madison Turner Farm article? Or, do you intend to flesh it out? Since it had been 22 days since your last edit there, I removed the {{in use}} template as that is really only appropriate for a short time (hours). --Bejnar (talk) 16:22, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Here's an idea for you

If you don't want to clip articles from Newspapers.com and list them as open access, you can do what this editor did and type in the relevant passage from the article so reviewers can see it. Yoninah (talk) 20:33, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

Incomplete DYK nomination

Hello! Your submission of Template:Did you know nominations/Telfair Hodgson at the Did You Know nominations page is not complete; if you would like to continue, please link the nomination to the nominations page as described in step 3 of the nomination procedure. If you do not want to continue with the nomination, tag the nomination page with {{db-g7}}, or ask a DYK admin. Thank you. DYKHousekeepingBot (talk) 08:55, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

DYK

Zigzig20s, I'm sorry that you feel "victimized". But you are coming across as quite a whiner on the DYK talk page, and that's not going to win you any new friends. May I suggest that you take a short wikibreak from DYK? When things get too intense, a nice book and a glass of wine also does the trick. As Cwmhiraeth noted, there's nothing wrong with your articles. You just need to look for "hooky" facts and be a little more easygoing about people questioning your hooks. Relax. This is a website, not life. Best, Yoninah (talk) 20:58, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

User:Yoninah: But why aren't we applying the same standards to other hooks? I have no problem with an altblurb for the article that was pulled, but that was rejected yesterday and pulled--I don't understand why.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:01, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

You're right: I've been watching WP:ERRORS all day today, and what's gone on with the set of hooks on the main page right now is a travesty. Hooks have been rewritten and pulled right and left, and the whole set looks really skimpy right now. I, too, wondered about that Lion's Choice hook, but I didn't say anything ... and it looks like the administrators over at ERRORS thought the same thing, so the fireworks started. But the Oscar Parkes hook is very good, IMO. If you want my honest opinion about your first Telfair Hodgson hook, I don't think it was so hooky. And saying that a college president is the editor of the Sewanee Review isn't hooky, either. An IP suggested a hook about his military experience – see here. Alternately, you could add some more colorful background information to the article that would make a good hook. Yoninah (talk) 21:10, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

There is another issue: the so-called "wide audience". Apparently that excludes our American readers. Why? We are not an anti-American website. (And by the way today, how many non-US readers are interested in Lion's Choice?)Zigzig20s (talk) 21:02, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

I'm a prep builder, so I know the rule is that up to 4 hooks can be U.S.-centric. No one is questioning that rule. The "wide audience" that The Rambling Man keeps stressing refers to hook interest. Granted, some people like things more than others (see Oscar Parkes, above), but hooks shouldn't be boring to a consensus of editors on the project. Yoninah (talk) 21:12, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

It's "... interesting to a broad audience ...", and it's a basic DYK rule. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:16, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

I now see this incident as an opportunity to clarity and improve the DYK requirements. The main thing is, how does anybody decide that someone like Telfair Hodgson is not interesting to a broad audience but Innocenzo Leonelli is? How do we define "wide/broad audience" without expectations of viewing statistics? Even that can be hard to predict.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:23, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

All of Wikipedia works on WP:CONSENSUS. This is no different. You may have a different opinion from the majority, but you can state your case calmly and accept the majority decision calmly. That's consensus. Yoninah (talk) 21:25, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

And why are you still conflating articles and hooks? We aren't talking about how does anybody decide that someone like Telfair Hodgson is not interesting to a broad audience but Innocenzo Leonelli is? We're talking about hooks being "hooky". Yoninah (talk) 21:27, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

[Edit conflict]: But hooks usually only have one reviewer who decides if it's sufficiently hooky or not, don't they? Or should we have multiple reviewers to review the hookiness of the hooks?Zigzig20s (talk) 21:31, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

We do have multiple reviewers – they're called prep promoters. Do you know how many nominations I send back to the page creator because they're not hooky? Yoninah (talk) 21:37, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Yes, you're right. However, it is somewhat related, isn't it? If the article is "boring", the hook will be too...That explains my initial confusion.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:31, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

No, it's not related. With just a little bit of creativity, you can mix and match facts in an article to come up with a good hook. Yoninah (talk) 21:37, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

You know, I think the fact that he was a Confederate veteran may be even more interesting to our foreign readers because they must know that the Confederacy lost and yet they would be surprised to learn that he managed to have a successful career in the postbellum era... Anyway, I suggested an altblurb, but it may be "boring" too...Zigzig20s (talk) 21:43, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

You need to spell it out. Good hooks compare and contrast. "Even though he lost at war, he won at life" is the beginnings of a good hook. I'm going to check out now; back to you tomorrow. Yoninah (talk) 21:53, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Also Black Kite said yesterday, "Because there's literally nothing interesting about him, I'd guess.". But that was before other editors and I improved/expanded the article.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:33, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Good. So let's see a new hook! Yoninah (talk) 21:37, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Retitle the L.A. Task Force

Your attention is called to the discussion here, suggesting retitling Los Angeles Task Force to Los Angeles County Task Force. Sincerely, BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 22:24, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

User:BeenAroundAWhile: Thank you for letting me know.Zigzig20s (talk) 10:35, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Resolved

Speedy deletion nomination of James Earl Massey

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A tag has been placed on James Earl Massey requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a real person or group of people that does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. Pichpich (talk) 03:26, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

User:Pichpich: I was going to expand the article...It would've been preferable to ask me first.Zigzig20s (talk) 09:10, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Well, it's not as if you lost a lot of content. The article was 10-word long at most. I suggest you work on it in the drafts space where you can take all the time you need (more or less) and get feedback before you publish it in mainspace. Cheers, Pichpich (talk) 19:37, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

User:Pichpich: Honestly I don't care about this person. He was a recent death and I thought other editors would expand it if I created a stub.Zigzig20s (talk) 19:46, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Telfair Hodgson Jr.

Hello! Your submission of Telfair Hodgson Jr. at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 22:03, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Joseph Samuel Clark

Hello! Your submission of Joseph Samuel Clark at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 20:53, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Telfair Hodgson Jr.

Hello! Your submission of Telfair Hodgson Jr. at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! CeeGee 18:14, 24 June 2018 (UTC) CeeGee 18:14, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Gatlinburg, Tennessee

I know you deal with a lot of NRHP articles, so your opinion at Talk:Gatlinburg, Tennessee#Additions to Registered Historic Sites would be appreciated. I'm wondering if I should post this at WP:USCITIES? Cheers. Magnolia677 (talk) 16:36, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

User:Magnolia677: Thanks for the note. I have looked at it, but I am not sure what to make of it.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:57, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Red link at Bill de Blasio

(Moved here from my talk page. Please keep discussion here.)

Why did you remove the red link for Bill de Blasio's uncle please?Zigzig20s (talk) 03:00, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

• Because there is no article on the subject and likely not to be one. Being a relative of someone famous does not confer notability. X4n6 (talk) 03:34, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Who?

Who were you looking for the birth of? --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 03:23, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ): Could you please refer me to a specific topic?Zigzig20s (talk) 03:26, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

I saw you at the reliable source noticeboard looking for the birth of someone and wondering if Familysearch had it. Did you find the birth?

User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ): This man. I was told this was not an RS. I can find book reviews on JSTOR and some matches on Newspapers.com, but no obituary so far.Zigzig20s (talk) 03:34, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

• Did you start an entry for him in Wikidata yet? --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 03:42, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ): I probably will, but I'd rather have an RS for his basic info like date of birth, date of death, and education. Otherwise the article will only have a "career" section.Zigzig20s (talk) 03:44, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

I will start a wikidata entry: Donald Wilhelm

Thanks. I don't think Wikidata is considered an RS though.Zigzig20s (talk) 03:48, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

No, but I can put information there that I find ... if I find anything. I am sure he has an obit somewhere.

I wish we knew where prabook and geni.com got their info...Zigzig20s (talk) 04:10, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

That link at Geni had some good info on him from a WNYC radio story on DeBlasio's father. You can always quote the census for information on his family. Primary documents are to be used with care, they are not banned. This is obviously him, since we know he is a Jr. Go ahead and start the article. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 04:17, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

• Donald George Wilhelm, Jr.

Where's the WNYC link please?Zigzig20s (talk) 04:21, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

• here is the link

Thanks. Yes, I think that is sufficient for his date and place of death. I will try to create it later.Zigzig20s (talk) 04:59, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

• Good bio here

User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ): Sorry about the wait. I am overworked these days, and this is a big project. Would you like to start it and I could expand it, or are you happy to wait please?Zigzig20s (talk) 08:48, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

I am blocked from starting new entries. That is why I only contribute to Wikidata and Commons. Wikipedia is short the 300 entries I create each year just for Wikidata. Some of the ones never started are on my user page, before I even stopped listing them there. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 13:21, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

I got into an argument with someone at AFD, and all it took was them to find three examples of copyright violations from my first entries, before I learned to use citations, to start a formal inquiry. He also nominated almost every image I loaded to Commons for deletion. In the formal inquiry I am required to certify that every edit up to that point is properly cited by filling in a form that covers every edit and putting in a green check mark against each edit. Most edits have long ago been rewritten by myself or others as articles got expanded. It would take me a year or more of continuous work to certify each edit. I then created about 600 articles in my userspace until that was blocked. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 14:23, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ): Very sorry to hear that--there would be a lot to say. Are you able to expand it if I create a stub please?Zigzig20s (talk) 15:33, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

List of Mexican-American War monuments and memorials

Is this the sort of thing that you are looking for? [21] Carptrash (talk) 22:40, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

User:Carptrash: Yes it is! Is there an Aztec Club of 1847 version of Confederate Veteran? That could be a very useful source.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:43, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

So how about this one? Niños Héroes Carptrash (talk) 23:07, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

You found the Mexico City one, right? [22] What are you going to do with these? Start a list? I can give you references for these two. Oddly, Arlington National Cemetery has memorials to Seabees, and Sp Am War and Sp Am War Nueses and Those killed in Beirut and Attempt to Rescue Iranian Hostages, but none for the Mex-Am War. Carptrash (talk) 00:19, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

A good start and there are a series of Mormon Battalion Monuments stretched out across the land. I have seen one in Pueblo Co and another between Albuquerque & Santa FE NM and I bet there ar 50 more. But that's an adventure for another day. Maybe Tomorrow. Carptrash (talk) 05:24, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

I see the DYK started, and am perfectly happy for it to succeed as is (stating that memorials exist in both countries). But I wonder if a stronger hook could be created that describes something more, perhaps about monuments and memorials not being common yet, while they would be common later for American Civil War. I read somewhere that a tradition of creating war memorials started in Germany or somewhere in the 1870s, first, then came to the U.S. By which time memories of the MAW were buried by impacts of Civil War.

The source Burying the Dead (which is used as a source in the list, just about the Mexico City cemetery so far), or the masters thesis which it mentions, might have something usable, i wonder. Butler discusses how MAW was different for having large numbers of U.S. deaths occurring in a different country (while there must be some U.S. dead buried in Canada in the War of 1812, etc.), and marking graves / cemeteries was a different kind of issue than ever before. A number of officer dead were brought back to U.S. for burial. User:Carptrash, any ideas? --Doncram (talk) 23:31, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

I found a tombstone (cenotaph?) for one such officer in a graveyard in Philly, but don't seem to be able to discover my picture of it. If we could locate the thousands of individual graves in Mexico we could use them but it is hard for me to imagine that the graves of the invaders were treated with much respect in the country that they invaded.Carptrash (talk) 00:21, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

It would be phenomenal to have a map of the US/Mexico with dots where the monuments are. You can suggest altblurbs, although this DYK is about MAW monuments, not the history of monuments as a whole.Zigzig20s (talk) 23:57, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

A map would be great, I have no clue as to how to go about it. There was a wikipedia editor who did a map for me based on zip codes. That would probably be close enough. Carptrash (talk) 00:21, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

About a map, the gradual way forward would be to use the list-article itself to built a list of places with coordinates, to be displayed on a linked Google map by use of the {{GeoGroup}}, like how NRHP list-articles are done. And how Pedimental sculptures in the United States has developed, mainly by User: Carptrash and User:BoringHistoryGuy. If/when the list items and coordinates are very well developed and stable, then possibly someone can make a map to display within the list-article itself. As was eventually done for List of National Historic Landmarks in Arkansas, for example, which covers a very well defined, pretty much unchanging, honor roll list of NRHP places. The current situation is to much in flux to be creating a fixed map yet here, but it would be fine to start to add some coordinates. Or maybe the priority should be to develop articles for redlinks like War Memorial Building (Jackson, Mississippi) and to add coordinates within all the linked articles, first, before bringing coordinates back to this list article all at once. --Doncram (talk) 20:43, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

DYK nomination of List of Mexican-American War monuments and memorials

Hello! Your submission of List of Mexican-American War monuments and memorials at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 04:01, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Hi, sorry I took long to round up some sourcing, but what I added seems to be acceptable, good.

Now, I don't want to cause any complications with the DYK by changing the article a lot myself, but it seems to me that organizing the article with a separate section for the Mexico City U.S. cemetery, as the one U.S. item within Mexico, vs. Mexican monuments in Mexico, vs. U.S. monuments in U.S. Right now it is ping-pong like with some intro text that i added about the cemetery, then "Mexico" and intro about Mexican monuments, then the cemetery item, then the Mexican monuments. I would be happy if you saw your way to reorganizing now or later. --Doncram (talk) 15:33, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

User:Doncram: I think it's maybe not a huge problem. I'll try to finish the review and I think we'll be good to go.Zigzig20s (talk) 15:52, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

User:Doncram: FYI I e-mailed you.Zigzig20s (talk) 19:44, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

DYK nomination of List of Mexican-American War monuments and memorials

Hello! Your submission of List of Mexican-American War monuments and memorials at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 23:18, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Please see new note on your DYK nomination. BTW 99.9% of hooks get promoted. It looks a little desperate to keep asking when it's going to be promoted :) Yoninah (talk) 11:21, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

User:Yoninah: Thanks for the note. I think only User:Doncram can help with this.Zigzig20s (talk) 16:29, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

I am not sure whether or not to be happy about being pinged, but I revised at the list-article and responded in the DYK nomination discussion. I am certainly not the only editor who can help. The problem as I now see it is that a DYK editor, no doubt well-meaning and interested in improving content, has put forth too many demands for additions of material using hypothetical sources. I think the solution is they should be the one to add whatever they want, if they can themselves find sources for it. Or they could make their bright suggestions at the Talk page of the article. Separately from the DYK process, which should have been over a long time ago. My 2 cents. --Doncram (talk) 18:20, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

User:Doncram: I think we can both agree that this DYK, which was supposed to be a fun way to highlight an article we worked on as a team, has turned into something of a nightmare. I am not going to DYK the Spanish-American monuments.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:24, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

@Doncram: it's nice to be called well-meaning. Actually, as a prep promoter, I am between a rock and a hard place, between the page creator and the administrators who promote DYKs to the main page and also other ones who yank the hooks for the slightest violation of DYK rules. It's my job to make sure the hooks I promote don't get yanked. Yes (sigh), DYK has too many rules, but please don't blame the messenger. Yoninah (talk) 17:08, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

User:Doncram: There are more problems apparently: Template:Did you know nominations/List of Mexican-American War monuments and memorials. We could try to flesh out the descriptions. And I am not sure about the source...Zigzig20s (talk) 19:07, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Murray Weissman

The content was as follows:

Murray Weissman, 90, American publicist and awards consultant, pancreatic cancer.[433] Murray Weissman, 90, American publicist and awards consultant, pancreatic cancer.[433]

And that's it. I suppose I should have used A7, not G3, but it definitely qualified for speedy :-) Nyttend (talk) 03:33, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Willie Lee Rose

Hello Zigzig20s. About your request at WP:REX. I have one of the obituaries you want (NY Times), but can't send a PDF over Wikipedia's email interface. So you need to send me a mail first. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 04:04, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

User:EdJohnston: There was no attachment in your e-mail, just a few lines telling me you were a New York Times subscriber...Zigzig20s (talk) 04:28, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

User:EdJohnston: Thanks. I got it now.Zigzig20s (talk) 05:06, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Also sent the Washington Post obituary. EdJohnston (talk) 05:16, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks.Zigzig20s (talk) 05:17, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

User:EdJohnston: I am not sure I will use the book reviews you sent me, but feel free to expand the article with them if you want.Zigzig20s (talk) 03:32, 1 July 2018 (UTC)