Talk:Eurovision Song Contest 2024/Archive 2

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The Israeli representative

Israel's representative for Eurovision 2024 will be chosen in February 2024 KatzeChat (talk) 17:27, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

@KatzeChat We don't have a reliable source reporting this yet, so until there's one, this won't be included Pdhadam (talk) 12:52, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

@Pdhadam In Israel they announced the date of election of the representative. The IPBC and Keshet Channel (responsible for choosing the Israeli representative) announced that the "Next Star for Eurovision 2024" final will take place during the month of February 2024. KatzeChat (talk) 15:47, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

If you can find an article elsewhere on the Internet that directly states that, feel free to cite! Pdhadam (talk) 17:11, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Info about reactions/decisions in light of Hamas-Israel conflict

@Tobby72: - sorry, actually there is an page at Israel in the Eurovision Song Contest 2024 where such info about reactions/decision in light of Hamas-Israel conflict should go there. There is also a notice in the article <!Do not alter this or make edits regarding the conflict that may violate WP:NPOV. All potential edits regarding the conflict should go to Israel in ESC2024 page, same guidelines apply>. Thanks. --- Cat12zu3 (talk) 11:22, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

My edit was reverted with the following edit summary: "there is a page at Israel in the Eurovision Song Contest 2024 which is more appropriate & relevant, also most of the info last user added seemed to be already in that page.

I respect the consensus, but I think Israel's participation has received a lot of media attention and perhaps there should be at least a brief summary in this article. If we compare it to similar calls for exclusion, I would point to Russia. There are articles named "Russia–Ukraine relations in the Eurovision Song Contest", "Ukraine in the Eurovision Song Contest 2022" and "Russia in the Eurovision Song Contest 2022", yet we have a section titled Impact of the Russian invasion of Ukraine in the article Eurovision Song Contest 2022. — diff -- Tobby72 (talk) 13:14, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Which I would had suggested to give a short brief no longer than a normal paragraph (not huge paragraph) ...

Because this main article is too long and for such massive informations that is not related to EBU it would be appropriate to list it at Israel in the Eurovision Song Contest 2023, that Eurovision 2022 has link to appropriate wiki page, and more importantly EBU was involved in the decision.

Maybe can discuss it here among other editors before adding anything related to this conflict. --- Cat12zu3 (talk) 13:24, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Otherwise. you can go to Israel in the Eurovision Song Contest 2023 which is more appropriate. Thanks. --- Cat12zu3 (talk) 13:25, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

In my view all information regarding calls for a boycott and so on should be withheld from the main page until closer to the contest in May, that way it can be classified as an "incident" directly impacting the contest. To do so now could make the page fall into the recentism trap (see Talk:Israel in the Eurovision Song Contest 2024) Pdhadam (talk) 13:44, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

In the case of Eurovision 2022, the calls for Russia's exclusion were added to the main article right after the invasion began in February 2022, and apparently no editor objected and the information remained there. At least we should have a link to the page, as suggested by User:IvanScrooge98. — diff -- Tobby72 (talk) 10:13, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Eurovision 2022 things moved a lot quicker at an EBU/ESC level, since it was less than two days between the invasion of Ukraine and Russia's exclusion from the 2022 contest. With the current situation with Israel the calls for exclusion have built over a longer period of time and there has been less of an actual impact on the ESC itself, rather than just at a country-level, which would justify including a lot of information on this article, rather than on the Israel in 2024 article. I do believe that a section with a link to the Israel article would be relevant, with a very brief summary of the situation, however because there has been very little impact at an international level, i.e. through the EBU or the national broadcasters, the information that is relevant to this article will be limited. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 12:49, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

There is significant WP:RS coverage of the controversies around Israeli participation in 2024. Scrubbing any mention of it from the page doesn't make a whole lot of sense when it's generating so much attention. Perhaps the section should be temporarily titled "Controversy" rather than "Incidents", as that's seems to be what the situation seems to primarily consist of? CarmenEsparzaAmoux (talk) 18:28, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Joining here to clearly restate what has already been linked, i.e. that I believe a link to the Israel article (with or without a brief summary) is a fair compromise, considering all the attention that it is getting but also the fact that the contest has not been directly impacted in any way so far. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 23:16, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Would a brief summary along the lines of what I wrote, with a link to the Israel article, make sense?

In the wake of Israel's war on Gaza, several organizations and delegations urged for the barring of Israel from the 2024 Eurovision contest, as was Russia barred from the 2022 Eurovision contest. On 13 December, the Icelandic Society of Authors and Composers urged RÚV to withdraw from the Eurovision Song Contest 2024 unless Israel was barred from participating. Then, on 10 January, 1,400 Finish artists and musicians called for Israel to be barred from performing in the 2024 Eurovision contest, citing Israeli war crimes in Gaza. CarmenEsparzaAmoux (talk) 23:37, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

I would personally avoid mentioning specific protests or petitions which already have their place in the dedicated article, and make a more general statement that there have been demands directed to a number of national broadcasters but that none has so far opposed Israel's participation. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 00:12, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

I think that's a good idea; I do just wonder if it makes sense to briefly mention the Icelandic and Finnish petitions due to the amount of coverage those two specifically have generated, and then note that neither national broadcasters have responded to the artists' requests. CarmenEsparzaAmoux (talk) 00:29, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

A good starting point would be the similarly-functioned section in the page for the 2019 contest - it only provides a summary of boycott calls as no broadcaster ultimately withdrew that year. Additionally, material and/or wording that specifically points to the fact that the situation is still developing should be included. Pdhadam (talk) 17:23, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

I took the freedom to reshape the hidden section and make it visible since a certain consensus seemed to have been reached. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 12:20, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 16 January 2024

Kaleen's song is "We Will Rave" source: https://oe3.orf.at/m/stories/3038708/ JacknetEsc (talk) 07:04, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. GrayStorm (talk) 16:27, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

The change was actually applied soon after. They were simply asking for the title of her song to be added in the “Participating countries” section. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 19:32, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 January 2024

The Irish entry contains two words in Aramaic, "avada kedavra", repeated twice. While this is also a derision from the popular Harry Potter spell, the phrase remains an Aramaic one, and should be added as a note under the language column for the row containing Ireland. I Stan Kyrgyzstan (talk) 14:25, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Can you verify this? doktorb _words^deeds 14:29, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

There is a discussion about this just above as well. Regardless of the source, a few words does not meet the threshold for needing a footnote. Grk1011 (talk) 14:30, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done for now: Current consensus seems to be against this. If you have a better source then feel free to discuss above and re-open the request. Best, NotAGenious (talk) 15:56, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Sources

My curiosity is killing me more and more, day by day. Hence why I'm just going to ask about it now. I do have an assumption, but I'd rather go for clarification at this point and hear, whether there is an existing bias here, when it comes towards the sources that are used?

Personally, I have used Wikipedia as a source in different ways since all the way back in 2008, but in these recent years, I've paid more and more attention towards the sources used, and I've even noticed over this 2024 season, that some sources that were used have been even incorrect. Such as North Macedonia's expected return, the announcement date for the Czech representative, the constant change for Romania's last chance and some more minor things. Yes, I'm aware of the mindset, that it's pure assumption, based on known information and that edits can "simply" be changed and the overall idea that Wikipedia shouldn't be a main source, so no need to explain those parts.

I just simply wish to known which sources are prioritized, if so, and potentially what makes a certain source more trustworthy than another. Some very in-depth details, so to say. Real Heydavid17 (talk) 00:08, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

@Real Heydavid17: The current consensus can be found on the WikiProject Eurovision Sources page. Personally, I consider Eurovoix to be the most reliable source — IмSтevan ^talk 17:55, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

I think their concern is more related to WP:CRYSTAL. We really should not have this level of speculation in the article, and I agree it has become a problem more recently. Specifically noted were: "North Macedonia's expected return, the (future) announcement date for the Czech representative, the constant change for Romania's last chance". All of these items had sources, but they were reporting things that could happen. I think it's always helpful to remember that Wikipedia is not a news website and is not a place to visit to keep up to date on what's happening. It's a place that largely documents what has already happened. Grk1011 (talk) 20:10, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

You brought up a good point. I was coming to the talk to open a discussion about a possible change in the “number of entries” in the infobox after RÚV's announcement that their ultimate decision will only come after Söngvakeppnin, but I think your comment sums it up; we should wait for an actual withdrawal. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 07:47, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

I also agree that these are very valid points. While I don't doubt the verifiability or reliability of the majority of the sources used, I do concur that there has been a tendency in the past to "newsify" the main Eurovision articles each year. I believe going forwards that there really needs to be more of a concerted effort by everyone to ensure that we build an encyclopaedia which is based on facts rather than mere speculation, as has been quite evident on here especially ahead of the 2024 contest. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 11:20, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Agree. Also remember that just because a source exists by a reputable outlet, it doesn't mean that what they're writing is encyclopedic. For example, I was just thinking about North Macedonia: a source drawing a conclusion from the broadcaster's budget and publicizing it as some sort of inside information prior to an announcement is not actually appropriate. In fact, it was incorrect and was just a placeholder "just in case". It's still "news", but speculation shouldn't be included here. Grk1011 (talk) 15:42, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

May I ask: it seems to me that WP:CRYSTAL is only about unverified speculation. However, the future events on this page are verified by sources. If we want to fully flow WP:CRYSTAL, we might as well delete this entire article because Eurovision 2024 hasn’t happened yet. --delta (talk) 12:32, 27 January 2024 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anotherdelta (talk • contribs)

Just because something can be sourced doesn't make it verifiable or reliable information, and in many cases, as listed above, there has been a lot of examples recently where speculation or rumour as published by sources has turned out to be false. Per WP:CRYSTAL, "predictions, speculation, forecasts and theories stated by reliable, expert sources or recognized entities in a field may be included", emphasis on "may" I would think. Per your contrarian point around deleting the entire article, "Individual scheduled or expected future events should be included only if the event is notable and almost certain to take place.", given countries are beginning to select entries and SVT/EBU has released a lot of pertinent information about the contest itself this point is obviously well met. However, putting in speculation about a country returning based off of a yearly budget to state that the country in question is participating when no such confirmation either for or against participation has been received from that country's broadcaster, as was the case with North Macedonia this year, is clearly a CRYSTAL violation. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 17:53, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

First of all, excuse my late reply, since I've had a bunch to deal with personally. Yet, I'm happily surprised that the worry did spark some sort of debate and consideration.

Second, the concern was in all honesty, far more personal than anything. In one way, I was curious about the validation that is being done, as well as how to personally improve. I was even debating whether I should reply, with the risk of potentially blacklisting myself. Since I eventually started to think about my own contribution, as in, how others take the information that is being providing, especially in a time, where it's so easy to spread false stories.

Just to be clear, I can only comment on my own behalf and can't force others to improve as well. I was actually surprised seeing how the site I write for was not even listed under "reliable" on the WikiProject Eurovision Sources page, yet I have seen my work being used on various Eurovision-related sites.

So the overall curiosity stemmed from, why are some sites used more than others? What makes a site a better source? Whether certain writers are more trustworthy than others? In another way to put it, I just personally wish to make better stuff, if I know and can visually see that someone pays attention to it. Real Heydavid17 (talk) 02:34, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Aramaic language

Can "Avada Kedavra" in the Irish song lyrics be considered as a phrase in Aramaic[1] 𝐒𝐦𝐭𝐡𝐧𝐠𝐧𝐰 ^💬 17:03, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Whatever the source says should be fine, but overall, a few phrases or words does not really meet the level of impact to require a footnote. Grk1011 (talk) 17:46, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

A Harry Potter fandom website is hardly a reliable source however. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 19:07, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

I didn't realize that was the source given! Grk1011 (talk) 19:35, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

And it also gives the wrong translation for kedavra (which as far as I’m aware would be “as/like I speak”), so we would need a serious source confirming that avada (apparently from an existing Aramaic verb) is a grammatical form. Otherwise it would be like saying that que sera sera is a Spanish phrase. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 16:59, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Map

There is a discussion regarding maps on Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Eurovision#Colors_on_the_map — IмSтevan ^talk 15:56, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Birth names and piping

I don't see why we would use birth names in this article rather than common names. Although the WP:COMMONNAME policy relates to article names, I don't see why we should use birth names rather than the common names within this article. Using the birth names is especially confusing when we use the common name in one column and the birth name in another column. For example, in this version of the article, the Ukrainian artists Alyona Alyona and Jerry Heil are displayed by their common names in the artists column but then displayed with their birth names in the songwriters column. This gives the false impression that it's different people.

I don't see why we would want to have inconsistencies with the table. Up the Walls (talk) 20:38, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Artists being listed as their legal name for songwriter credits, rather than their artist names, is, although not universal, a very well-established convention, not only within Wikipedia but across the music industry. We shouldn't however blanket use either artist names or legal names in this case, but we should follow what reliable sources state for the songwriter credits on these songs here. In many cases that will mean we use the artists' legal names, but occasionally we may use artist names on songwriter credits as well. WP:COMMONNAME should not have any bearing as, although there is a tangential relationship, we are not talking about article titles here, for which this policy is principally about. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 20:45, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Israeli Song

The Israeli song was chosen and it is called "October Rain". Its creators are Keren Pels, Avi Ohion and Stav Beger KatzeChat (talk) 09:06, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Available reliable sources appear to show that the song is still in dispute due to songwriter differences over credits and royalties, so it appears that the song could be subject to change. Until reliable reporting shows that this has been resolved and until we get official confirmation on the song this cell should continue to show TBA. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 09:36, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Ukrainian entry's language

Teresa & Maria has more English in it than Heart of Steel had Ukrainian, but the 2023 page says Ukraine's song is in English and Ukrainian, while the 2024 page says it's in Ukrainian (with phrases in English). Presedence says that this year's song should be listed as "Ukrainian, English", but whenever someone has done that, it's been reverted. Should we list last year's song as English (with phrases in Ukrainian) or should we allow a change for this year? Either way, I feel like this lack of cohesion should be addressed. Brobbz (talk) 23:18, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

I've changed this on the 2023 article. There is no specific "cut-off point" for when a language should be listed independently, but a rough guide would be a full section of the song in a language, e.g. a verse, chorus or bridge. Applying this to Ukraine's entries in 2023 and 2024 the result is neither entry passes that test. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 10:30, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Italian in 11:11

According to the lyrics I found there's no italian in there. Yoyo360 (talk) 17:36, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Per the lyrics at [2], the entire final chorus is in Italian (from "E tu potrai saltare tutta la notte"). I believe this is in the live version only and not in the studio track available on streaming. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 09:28, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Number of participants

regarding israeli participation, "Israeli broadcaster IPBC/Kan has stated that if it is asked by the EBU to alter the song, it would not do so, and be forced to withdraw from the contest". If that's the case, shouldn't the number of participants have a footnote aswell? Israel could still withdraw Azond1000 (talk) 16:46, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

No, no footnotes. They are a participant until they express otherwise, just as any country might opt out at any time for a multitude of reasons. Grk1011 (talk) 17:01, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

This would be a WP:CRYSTAL violation. We don't need to add footnotes for every single eventuality. Changes can happen at any moment as has been shown in previous years, e.g. Australia 2015 and Romania 2016. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 18:52, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Languages in Europapa

Might be worth adding a note to the language section for Europapa, while the majority of the song is in Dutch according to the lyrics there is a line in German, some words in Italian and French - https://genius.com/Joost-europapa-lyrics A Mallard Duck (talk) 15:50, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

We only list the main language. Grk1011 (talk) 16:03, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

since when? there's always been notes about additional languages A Mallard Duck (talk) 04:53, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Eurovision#Languages within participants tables. Feel free to joint the discussion. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 11:06, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

That's not true. doktorb _words^deeds 08:52, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 March 2024

So I understand that the news just got out but since we have a returning artists section with Natalia barbu lets add hera björk as she is already featured on the wiki page and won in Iceland! EurovisionFanEurope (talk) 22:18, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. --TheImaCow (talk) 21:38, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Hurricane

Are we considering Kan a reliable source when it comes to their entry? — IмSтevan ^talk 15:42, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

I would personally like an official source, given that KAN has had a recent history of a lack of credibility. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 15:58, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Really? I wasn’t aware of that but it doesn’t surprise me. Thanks, I will be more careful when citing them. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 19:01, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Mention of Yankunytjatjara language for Australia?

Hi, I feel that the recent languages debate here and at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Eurovision#Languages within participant tables has been overcomplicating things slightly, but I think it’s necessary to come to a conclusion on whether the “English” content in the language box for Australia’s entry should be changed to “English, Yankunytjatjara”, as there are clearly people with different views.

First and foremost, I had been adding the Yankunytjatjara information as a footnote not realising it now seems to be a rule to not include footnotes. Whilst I don’t necessarily understand this ruling, I accept it. A big point in this debate was that languages can’t be sourced, but my contribution had been sourced with an article from the Eurovision website, stating that “Their song will be One Milkali (One Blood), and in a first for the Eurovision Song Contest, it's an entry that incorporates Yankunytjatjara”. This sources the claim that the song includes this language. The language box of the table refers to the language or languages the song is in. Whilst this song is predominantly English, 22.31% (56/251) of the song’s lyrics are in Yankunytjatjara. With a percentage of the lyrics this large, how can this not be considered a language in the song alongside English, when the inclusion of the language is referenced? There are many songs in the past with secondary languages mentioned with a lower percentage. I can’t understand why more than a fifth of the song is in Yankunytjatjara, yet this isn’t included, so we should come to a conclusion. Sizewell (talk) 22:51, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

If you can find enough citations, proving the use of the language and the amount, you can add it as a language. doktorb _words^deeds 01:26, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

I think the question is that, if we can’t source all or most of the entries’ languages, we might end up providing a language footnote for one and not another and this would be inconsistent. In addition, I would object to the song being in Yankunytjatjara for “more than one fifth” given that it’s the same four words repeated over and over. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 13:17, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

From a random Google search (give that as much weight as you see appropriate), I found this viewpoint, which I think sums up the mentality: a song has more than one language if its "lyrics are in two, or sometimes more, languages. It's not just random bits of Gratuitous English or Gratuitous Foreign Language sprinkled into the lyrics, but full on verses that are in separate languages." Grk1011 (talk) 15:03, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

I recently added it with sources, and it was removed, citing “against consensus”. What consensus? Four people have participated in this debate, two have been open to the change and two have been against. There's no consensus there. All have valid arguments but there’s no formal consensus. Yes there are only a few separate words of the language in the song, but they are repeated frequently throughout the song, and if a separate song had four words repeated over and over for the whole lyrics, that wouldn’t mean that the song isn’t in that language just because there’s not a massive range. The words are still in that language. The sources I included stated that the song included the language, one being the same source used for other secondary languages throughout the table which have been kept, and the other being an article published on the website of the Australian broadcaster in the contest stating that it was sung in both English and Yankunytjatjara. Furthermore, the Eurovision announcement article stated that the song incorporated this language. There may not be a huge range of words but it’s still a large proportion of the lyrics and I would believe that number takes priority over range of words. Other reasons for removal have simply been unsourced, and it is now sourced. Sizewell (talk) 21:20, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

As I mentioned in the comment above, we need to be consistent. Other notes like that were removed before your addition so we either have them for all affected entries or none. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 21:58, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

That doesn't change the fact that we have verified proof that the language is used. Let's not drown in "Wikipedia purity". Add the note for this example and argue the toss for the others. doktorb _words^deeds 04:53, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

But the inclusion of notes has been challenged, as you know, and we can’t provide them sparsely just because we can’t verify them all. After all, every entry in the contest will ultimately have its standalone article where sourced languages can be included. And I say this as someone who would actually support the usage of notes. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 07:22, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

But doesn't that strike you as frustrating? We're told to ensure that facts have citations. We've got citations. Then the goalposts shift and suddenly that's not acceptable. It's as near as damnit to a Kafka fever-dream as I can imagine, no wonder that new editors are put off contributing. doktorb _words^deeds 09:07, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

If the language is in two languages, include both, if not, include one. Just be mindful of at what level "in" a second language is. We have a whole page for Australia in the Eurovision Song Contest 2024 and inevitably "One Milkali (One Blood)", where we can go into excruciating detail about the song's composition and the significance of its language(s). However, a list of entries in a song contest is not the right location for that level of detail. Grk1011 (talk) 14:18, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

The song is in two languages, and there are many official (e.g Australian broadcaster, Eurovision) and unofficial sources (independent news sites) stating this. Again, over a fifth of the song’s lyrics are in Yankunytjatjara. This does include repetition of phrases, but those phrases are still in that language and make up a proportion of the song. Furthermore, how is it that Greece’s entry is listed as Greek and English and that is uncontested when there is one line in English with no repetition, making up a much smaller proportion of the song’s lyrics, yet this song has a much larger proportion but is constantly removed? Consistency has been an argument but as far as I can see it’s the removal of this information which makes anything inconsistent across entries. It’s not down to the personal opinion of certain editors, official and unofficial sources all state the song is in two languages, analysing the lyrics back this up as you can’t deny the existence of the lyrics. When it comes to core information viewpoints can’t take priority over reliable sources and facts surely. Sizewell (talk) 23:41, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Two full sentences in English in "Zari", even if used once. Does any of the Yankunytjatjara text constitute that or are these sparse words, which is the point I’ve tried to make since the beginning? We definitely need to build a clearer consensus on this, no doubt, but you just made me think of an example. Remember Lys Assia's song "Giorgio" from ESC 1958, where she repeats countless times the names of certain Italian dishes? Now, if there weren’t some additional Italian phrases in the lyrics, you wouldn’t consider Italian being one of the languages of that song just based on risotto or polenta, would you? Accordingly, saying "blood" over and over doesn’t make Yankunytjatjara a relevant language in accordance with the practice we are establishing (and with which, as I said, I don’t fully agree). ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 00:08, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Song lyrics hardly have to be in full sentences. Furthermore, the dishes referenced in the 1958 Italian entry are proper nouns, and are words also used in other languages. They are Italian words yes but are the same in other languages, there is no translation in English for example. One Milkali (One Blood) features the phrases milkali, milkali kutju and milkali la, all repeated many many times throughout the song. These are phrases exclusively in this language, these phrases are not interchangeable proper nouns, these exact phrases would not be used in a language such as English, the other language in the song, a translation would be used as these phrases are phrases in Yankunytjatjara and not English. And I reiterate previous points, a significant proportion of the song’s lyrics are these repeated phrases in Yankunytjatjara, not another language, and this is sourced in an article by the broadcaster, Eurovision itself and many independent news sites. I mean this in good faith, but surely referenced facts can’t be overridden by opinions. Sizewell (talk) 00:52, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

I love your final sentence very much. Think it's time to be WP:BOLD on this one. doktorb _words^deeds 04:03, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Fair enough, this puts things a bit in a different light. I’ll try to do it myself and see what happens. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 07:19, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

I certainly think that when there are reliable references they should be considered, but I also believe there should be consistency about how we approach this. There are lots of cases in the past where songs have lines or words in their lyrics in languages other than the main language of that song, including instances where those lines/words are repeated throughout the song, but where those supplementary languages are not listed on the Eurovision-by-year and Country-by-year articles. I'm thinking of the likes of "Je t'adore", "Merci, Chérie", "Loco Loco" as well as the multiple songs called "Hasta la vista". These all have titles in other languages apart from the language in which they're mainly sung, but I would say these songs are definitely not in those languages and we shouldn't be listing them as being in French or Spanish because of it. At the same time there are lots of loanwords and things that are introduced into other languages which complicates the matter. Like if a song has "déjà vu" in the title or in the lyrics but English lyrics throughout apart from this one phrase which is very common in English, should we then list that song as having French lyrics? Another question I have is around the likes of the Dutch entry this year, which has a spoken introduction in English. Does this count as being part of the song, since it's not actually being sung or rapped or anything? What I'm trying to say is that it's such a complicated area for us as editors to try and work around, with conflicting sources saying different things and making more of a deal out of it than others. Bringing it back to the Australian example, the EBU source that is being used in the article right now says the song "incorporates" Yankunytjatjara, which depending on how you look at it could also be used to argue against listing it here, as when you look at other references and stuff it's a lot more concrete about the languages, i.e. "performed in X and Y" or "sung in Z" etc. I don't know what the solution is, but I'm getting increasingly frustrated at the apparent grandstanding, and to be honest what looks like hypocrisy to me, that some editors are prone to on this issue and others. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 17:21, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

I share your feelings on this, to be completely honest, and I think we should probably hold a full discussion on what as editors we want to include depending on the case (repeated words, one sentence, multiple sentences, etc), as well as how we want to address the issue of sources. Otherwise the only alternative will ultimately be to scrap the language column altogether, which I personally would avoid. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 18:06, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, and I concur that a full discussion as a project may be needed to create some clarity and consistency that all editors can point to when making these additions. I've come round to the idea of retaining the language column in this simpler form, but the more the bickering continues the more I would rather just scrap it completely from these tables. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 19:31, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

13 March Armenian entry

You can add that Armenian entry will published on 13 March 2003:E4:3702:28C0:808E:57A0:F743:5E5C (talk) 23:49, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

1997

In 1997 televoting only started after the songs KlokkoVanDenBerg (talk) 17:30, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Slovenia: Andrej Hofer confirmed as commentator

Source: https://evrovizija.com/andrej-hofer-bo-znova-komentiral-pesem-evrovizije/

Please add to the Broadcast section Qcumber (talk) 21:39, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Ásdís María footnote

I'm questioning why we need this footnote, both on this article and within Iceland in the Eurovision Song Contest 2024. Certainly it's a relevant piece of information to be captured within prose in the Iceland article, however I feel that the footnote on both articles is WP:UNDUE. Her statements on the song going to Eurovision I believe have zero bearing on the contest or the credits for the Icelandic entry, and given that in all relevant sources she is still listed as a songwriter on the track, including the EBU, I do not see how relevant it is to clarify her position in this manner. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 11:34, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Agree. If she "cuts ties" (whatever that means) and she's removed from the credits, then her name can be removed. We don't need a note 'in anticipation' of something that may or may not happen. Grk1011 (talk) 13:12, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

I totally get the reasoning. I just found the situation to be worth specifying as it is unusual that a songwriter does not want to be associated with a song they wrote when they are being credited all over. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 15:18, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 March 2024

In the "Participant countries" chart, in the Netherlands, add a note to the language cell that says "Dutch" specifying that there are some verses in English, German and Italian. Lallamaflamenca (talk) 21:41, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

 Not done. Only the main language of a song is now being listed here to keep things simpler and consistent across all songs and all articles. Exceptions are only made when there is a substantial portion of the lyrics in another language, or where there are repeated phrases throughout the song. In the case of the Dutch song, the large majority of lyrics are in Dutch and any phrases or words in another language are incidental and are not repeated. Please see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Eurovision#Languages within participants tables for the full discussion on this point. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 22:20, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Misleading/false: "risk of potential terrorist attacks..."

Under Israeli participation it currently reads: "the risk of potential terrorist attacks as a spillover of the war".

That is incorrect, incomplete, misleading, and the used source is biased.

The current high terror alert in Sweden has multiple reasons. The expected protests against Israel's participation in Eurovision are a factor, but not the main reason for potential terrorist attacks. (those risks were already present before the Gaza war even started).

The threats against Sweden were triggered by Quran burnings and a disinformation campaign against Swedish social services (conspiracy theories about them abducting Muslim children). Threats were made against Sweden and Denmark calling for attacks against police, security guards, markets, festivals, football and concerts.

There was also a shooting of Swedish football fans in Brussels last October, as a result of that. Swedish authorities also points to the possibility of covert foreign interference, specifically mentioning Russia, Iran and China.

Source: https://www.dn.se/kultur/trots-hojd-terrorhotniva-och-protester-ingen-riktad-hotbild-mot-eurovision/

The source you used ("Eurovoix") published an editorial statement about Israel on 20 Nov 2023, stating they would not report on Israel's selection for Eurovision, and boycott the country in reaction to the Gaza war. Therefore you cannot use "Eurovoix" as a neutral and unbiased source on this topic. 2A02:A212:26C0:C180:51D7:C360:96D9:E90F (talk) 18:29, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Eurovoix has long been one of our most relied-on sources, and what their editorial team decides to cover has no bearing on its reliability. That being said, if other factors play a role, the sentence could and should be expanded and/or reworded and placed in a new separate section on security. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 20:29, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Update: checking on the very Eurovoix article, there is not even mention of terrorism—we retained that from a different, less reliable source which we had used in earlier revisions. I’ll try to rework the section. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 20:43, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Big 5 + Sweden in semi-finals

I think Big 5 + Sweden should not be mentioned in between the semi finalists in the contest overview section as they are not participating in semis. They are just guest acts. 185.251.84.42 (talk) 06:15, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Exactly. They're not competing so we don't include them. doktorb _words^deeds 07:46, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

For reference, please see the existing discussion on the WikiProject talk page here: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Eurovision#Tables for semis. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 09:14, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Languages

The song from Greece (lyrics) contains only one line in English, and Ukraine (lyrics) contains only one repeated line in English. Maybe they should be classified as Greek and Ukrainian respectively with a sidenote about their English lyrics. Tonyb1989 (talk) 02:28, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Please see the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Eurovision#Languages within participants tables for why we have stopped the use of language footnotes within these articles. Since we are now only listing the main languages of the songs I concur that listing English here is inconsistent, and I have removed the reference to English lyrics within these songs from the table (with the Greek song this keeps getting readded though so not sure what can be done about that should it happen again). Sims2aholic8 (talk) 09:46, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Maybe the footnotes were important after all. And if you're only listing "the main language", there are inconsistencies with the songs from Australia, Azerbaijan and Israel. All these songs are mainly in English. Therefore references to their respective languages should be removed. For Luxembourg, maybe it is needed to count the amount of lines in English or French to determine which is the "main language" Tonyb1989 (talk) 15:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Pic

@IvanScrooge98: yeah i'd say so — IмSтevan ^talk 22:57, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

I mean, I have seen the difference, but I don’t understand why we would have to add the heart version of the flags other than as part of the contest's visual identity—if anything, I believe it would make more sense to have the single heart flags in the country articles. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 23:03, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

honestly I'd add the pic as a part of the template — IмSтevan ^talk 23:05, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Hmm I don’t know, it still looks “too much” to me. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 23:13, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

@ImStevan and IvanScrooge98: Adding flags or images to infoboxes, such as the participants infobox on these articles, is highly discouraged per MOS:INFOBOXFLAG. This, plus WP:NAVIMAGES, is the reason the flags were recently removed from the country navboxes, e.g. Template:Albania in the Eurovision Song Contest. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 10:55, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Mention of the Israeli controversy in the lede

I added a mention of the Israeli participation controversy to the lede, and it was quickly taken out. This is odd, because the controversy is notable to the point where not only is there a section on it in the article, but we have a whole article on the topic. Can this please be restored? — The Anome (talk) 18:04, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

I removed the sentence as I found it weirdly worded (the preparations are notable?) and not strictly necessary since the dedicated section reflects common practice for the articles in this series (see the ones about previous contests); furthermore, we have articles for all participating countries every year (Albania in the Eurovision Song Contest 2024, Bulgaria in the Eurovision Song Contest 2022, etc.) so Israel in the Eurovision Song Contest 2024 isn’t a special case. I’m not totally against having a line about it in the lead though, we could follow the lead for the 2019 article. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 18:34, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Yes, something almost exactly like that. Political controversy and the ESC now seem to be linked almost every year, whether it's Russia-Ukraine, Israel-Gaza, or whatever, and being used as a political lighning rod seems to be a regular part of the ESC now. — The Anome (talk) 19:37, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

R/O note

@Thomediter: I understand the reasoning behind your additions as a mobile user myself, what I’m trying to say is: since the problem affects mobile display as a whole and thus all instances of {{abbr}}, I think it makes it a bit inconsistent to have notes for some of them arbitrarily; I just wish Wikipedia could solve these display issues on mobile. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 20:07, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, okay fair enough, I'll start a topic on wikiproject to find a consensus on whether or not there should be an explanation for abbreviations Thomediter (talk) 20:08, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Oh, you had already opened a discussion there. I’m sorry. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 20:10, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Spain (RTVE) will broadcast both semifinals

In the broadcast table it says only "SF2" in the RTVE box, when today they have confirmed that they will broadcast both semi-finals and have been doing so since 2015. In fact, it clearly states it in the article used as a source. Could you change it, please? Ferx90 (talk) 19:38, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

I had not noticed only SF2 was marked. I’ll adjust it. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 21:15, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Austria FM4

Source here indicates only the final will be broadcast by FM4. Main problem being it's a primary. Yoyo360 (talk) 12:48, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 April 2024

The slovenian commentator is not Andrej Hofer anymore, but the new commentator is Mojca Mavec, here is the link that provides proof written on 16 April 2024: https://evrovizija.com/mojca-mavec-namesto-andreja-hoferja/. Noogometni urejevalec (talk) 17:32, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

 Done PianoDan (talk) 23:06, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Edit request

According to the Peacock website, Eurovision will be broadcast on Peacock again this year. No word as to what shows will have what commentators, also no word on if WJFD-FM will be back again: https://www.peacocktv.com/stream-event/eurovision OrlandoApollosFan69 (talk) 04:03, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

 Done ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 05:59, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 May 2024

However, just hours before the Grand Final, the EBU disqualified the Netherlands after its entrant, Joost Klein was investigated by police after a physical confrontation between Klein and a female employee. Bribri.789 (talk) 10:53, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Taavi (talk!) 11:13, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Running order updates

I'd advise keeping an eye on this article because they keep changing the numbers for the countries performing after Luxembourg. Right now there's a gap between Luxembourg (4) and Israel (6) when previously Israel was shown with the number 5 and everyone else was shifted.  Andreyyshore 🆃︎ 🅲︎  11:53, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

A Lithuanian source confirms that the running order is not changing: [3] 94.244.108.56 (talk) 12:17, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

And now the EBU themselves have confirmed in a tweet that the remaining numbers will not be shifted. A relevant page on the official website has also been updated.  Andreyyshore 🆃︎ 🅲︎  12:28, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

RTVE broadcasting plans

It has been confirmed that the grand final will also be broadcast on RNE 1 (https://www.escplus.es/eurovision/2024/radio-nacional-de-espana-emitira-en-directo-la-gran-final-del-festival-de-eurovision-2024/ & https://www.rtve.es/television/20240423/nebulossa-se-despiden-espana-antes-viajar-a-eurovision/16072445.shtml)

It has also been confirmed by one of TVE's commentary assistants that the semi-finals will be broadcast on La 1. Also that there will be simulcast as usual with TVE Internacional and La 1 UHD (they broadcast practically in simulcast at times). (https://twitter.com/victorESC_udero/status/1782550794232856693)

Could this information be included? Thanks! Ferx90 (talk) 11:14, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Oh, thanks for the Twitter link. I’ll add it. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 12:31, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Eurovision 2024 website

Hi guys, this is the official website for eurovision 2024 malmo. Malmo2024.com It's short and easy to remember. Moradber (talk) 18:27, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Now, that’s a useful shortcut! However, it’s still a redirect to eurovision.tv/event/malmo-2024, which is where the official website is still located—if changing it in the infobox is what you’re suggesting. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 19:13, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Yeah ecaxtly, I means putting malmo2024.com will be more useful for people to easy remember and access (compared to the long url) Moradber (talk) 20:07, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

That doesn’t matter. The official website is located at eurovision.tv/event/malmo-2024, so this is what should be displayed on here. Not a redirect. See Wikipedia:External links#Redirection sites. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 20:25, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Ukraine: Suspilne Kultura and Radio Promin will broadcast all shows. Timur Miroshnychenko confirmed as TV commentator

Sources: https://suspilne.media/culture/736995-vse-so-treba-znati-pro-evrobacenna-2024-data-provedenna-pravila-ucasniki/

https://suspilne.media/culture/734871-evrobacenna-2024-de-divitisa-vistup-ukraini-u-persomu-pivfinali-i-ak-golosuvati/ Qcumber (talk) 17:01, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Norwegian commentators

Marte Stokstad is commentating the NRK1 broadcast, but Jon Marius Hyttebakk will commentate the NRK P1 broadcast: https://www.nrk.no/kultur/slik-folgjer-du-eurovision-song-contest-pa-nrk-1.16865023 Kringlekasting (talk) 11:57, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

TVE Internacional will broadcast live both semi-finals and the Grand Final of Eurovisión 2024

Source: https://www.escplus.es/eurovision/2024/tve-internacional-retransmitira-en-directo-las-semifinales-y-la-gran-final-de-eurovision-2024/ (In spanish)

Can you add it to the table? Thanks Ferx90 (talk) 14:29, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

La 1 UHD will also broadcast Semi 2 & Final

The information on broadcasts on La 1 UHD has been updated in the previous article: "In addition, both the second semi-final on 9 May and the grand final on 11 May will be broadcast in simulcast on La 1 UHD, the ultra-high definition version of the channel".

Source: https://www.escplus.es/eurovision/2024/tve-internacional-retransmitira-en-directo-las-semifinales-y-la-gran-final-de-eurovision-2024/ (In spanish)

Can you add it to the table too? Thanks Ferx90 (talk) 19:34, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Now that’s interesting. HD channels normally have the same exact programming of its regular counterparts, not just part of it, and it would be redundant to add them. This seems peculiar to me but I’m still not sure if we should add it. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 21:45, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

I would tend to agree. Given that this channel is essentially a simulcast of the regular channel I don't believe it should be added, in the same way that we don't list every HD channel where the programming is exactly or almost exactly the same. It is however potentially something which might be relevant for inclusion within the Switzerland in the Eurovision Song Contest 2024 article. Sims2aholic8 (talk) Sims2aholic8 (talk) 21:55, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

You mean Spain instead of Switzerland, right?

Let me give a small contribution to the topic. Televisión Española has been testing 4K since 2015. On 1 June 2021, it launched "TVE 4K" in two feeds SDR and HDR through DTT free-to-air in test mode and only in some parts of Spain -in some big cities mainly- broadcasting in loop the content they had in native 4K. Starting with the 2022 FIFA World Cup in late 2022, they renamed the channel to "TVE UHD" and began to simulcast in HDR the signal of La 1 (up-scaling the content not in UDH), still in test mode. I had the luck to watch last year's Eurovision (2023) in 4K through it. On 11 February 2024, with the shutdown of SD channels in Spain (now only HD exists) they officially launched "La 1 UHD" as the regular simulcast of La 1 in UHD in all the country, being the first broadcaster who covers it entire territory in UHD in DTT.

And regarding Eurovision, the 2022 contest was the first one produced in 4K, but not even RAI itself was able to broadcast in native 4K, and I have no idea if any other broadcaster was able to do so. I don't know if it's necessary to list all the simulcasts, but 4K broadcast needs to be addressed somehow in the prose of the corresponding articles as an improvement in broadcasting technology, like when color arrived in 1968, or when HD was tested in Athens and was not first broadcast until Helsinki. Ferclopedio (talk) 09:54, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes I did, although it's clear from the ref that it's the Spanish channel my mind initially went to the Swiss channel of the same name. The 4K broadcast in 2022 is already included in the Broadcasts section of that article; I agree however that potentially it could be placed more prominently within the Production section given the first use and improvements in technology just like the other examples you have stated. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 10:17, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

I only realized now that the programming does match the one of La 1, since the other semi is on La 2. My bad. That means it’s not worth listing in the table but may be mentioned elsewhere. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 10:25, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 May 2024

The spokesperson for Malta has been announced. It's MATT BLXCK (stage name in caps).

Source: https://www.facebook.com/share/r/WNBHaakN1nfEmJbB/?mibextid=WC7FNe Db90mt (talk) 17:14, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

 Done ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 18:21, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Ukraine: Radio Promin will also broadcast SF1. Radio commentators announced

The first semi-final is added to the schedule on their website: https://ukr.radio/channel.html?channelID=2&progID=696&sliderIndex=87

Although it has been announced by Suspilne that SF1 on Radio Promin will be commentated by Dmytro Zakharchenko and Lesia Antypenko https://eurovision.ua/6198-yevrobachennya-2024-de-dyvytysya-yak-golosuvaty-ta-zirky-u-pershomu-pivfinali/

Qcumber (talk) 02:28, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Cyprus 2nd half

Cyprus is listed as performing in the first half of the final, when they have drawn second half. Please change it. 2A02:8309:2183:7800:60C9:3461:3C15:33FC (talk) 06:49, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

 Done ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 08:52, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

they never confirm their sources! EUROVOIX made the mistake and they copied it, instead of checking with the official eurovision.tv website first!! amateurs! 87.228.232.98 (talk) 08:31, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Can someone correct the mistake on esc 2024 wiki page? Cyprus is performing inthe 2nd half of the final.

Can someone correct the mistake on esc 2024 wiki page? Cyprus is performing inthe 2nd half of the final. 87.228.232.98 (talk) 08:24, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

 Done ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 08:52, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Extended-protected edit request on 8 May 2024

Cyprus has drawn 2nd half in the final, not 1st half. This should be fixed accordingly in the ‘Final’ section.

Purpley24 (talk) 08:28, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

 Done ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 08:52, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

References

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 May 2024

CYPRUS IS LISTED AS PERFORMING IN THE 1ST HALF, WHEN THEY HAVE DRAWN TO SING IN THE 2ND HALF. EUROVOIX MADE THE MISTAKE, YOU COPIED IT AND DIDNT BOTHER CONFIRMING WITH THE OFFICIAL EUROVISION.TV WEBPAGE. PLEASE CORRECT IT. AMATEURS 87.228.232.98 (talk) 08:42, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

 Done ^{No need to shout...} ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 08:52, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 May 2024 (2)

ADD: The spokes person for Iceland is Friðrik Ómar Hjörleifsson. Source: https://www.ruv.is/frettir/menning-og-daegurmal/2024-05-08-fridrik-omar-stigakynnir-islands-i-eurovision-412113 Rogunb085 (talk) 13:26, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

 Done ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 14:43, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Ukraine: correction about radio commentators

Despite the announecement in fact Radio Promin broadcast the first semi-final wih TV commentary by Timur Miroshnychenko.

I've provided details and sources (audiorecords of the radio broadcast on Radio Promin website) here: Ukraine in the Eurovision Song Contest#Commentators and spokespersons

I think it's more correct now to mention Miroshnychenko as Radio Promin commentator in Ukraine. Qcumber (talk) 00:08, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Gosh, what a mess. Thanks for providing the info and source, I’ll add a note in the table. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 09:28, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Extended-protected edit request on 9 May 2024

During the dress rehearsal, Israel's song got heavily booed. Tons of audience members were also shouting "Free Palestine". Article and video footage: [4]https://metro.co.uk/2024/05/08/israels-eurovision-performance-drowned-boos-free-palestine-chants-20802588/ IkiEneng (talk) 10:34, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Added to the "Protest actions" section. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 11:52, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 May 2024

In the participant list, add "VRT" [5] as a broadcaster for Belgium. Belgium has 2 public broadcasting stations affiliated to the European Broadcasting Union. As far as I know the third public broadcaster in Belgium doesn't participate in the Eurovision Song Contest. Sméagol 88 (talk) 13:46, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

The participating broadcaster this year is RTBF. The two alternate to represent Belgium so next year it's going to be VRT. See Belgium in the Eurovision Song Contest. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 14:00, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

 Not done. See Ivan‘s comment. Also, Belgium doesn‘t have a third public broadcaster.Tvx1 19:18, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Belgium does have third public broadcaster because each language community has one. The missing one is the German-language one, Belgischer Rundfunk. --Spontan123 (talk) 02:10, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Luxembourg commentary

Hi,

The French-language broadcast on RTL for Luxembourg had a second commentator : Emma Sorgato (The Voice Belgique season 11 winner). Source : https://play.rtl.lu/shows/lb/eurovision/episodes/r/3371381 Best regards, TVESC (talk) 15:39, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

 Done ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 17:19, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

belgium's broadcasting interrupted during israel

during isnotreal's performance in the second semi-final, vrt interrupted their broadcasting to just show a black screen with white text that promoted israel's disqualification. this was done as an act of protest and raising awareness about the ethnic cleansing of palestinians. Firsy.mid (talk) 23:28, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Someone covered this already, but the unions of VRT interrupted the broadcast for Israel's condemnation on human rights and press freedom during the start of the broadcast. It's unknown how long it lasted. Bray0829 (talk) 04:11, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

I watched the VRT broadcast, the same screen was also shown in place of the very end of the credits and the Te Deum at the end of the broadcast. TibeThatGuy (talk) 16:11, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

I’m going to clear things up here. The statement was shown before and after the transmission. Nothing was interrupted. It was also repeated ahead of the final.Tvx1 19:21, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

References

Ukraine broadcast update

Broadcasters and commentators in participating countries

Country	Broadcaster	Channel(s)	Show(s)	Commentator(s)	Ref(s)
Ukraine	Suspilne	Suspilne Kultura	Final	TBA 10 May 2024
			All shows	Ukrainian: Timur Miroshnychenko Ukrainian sign language: Tetiana Zhurkova, Inna Petrova, Iryna Skolotova, Yuliia Porplik, Anfisa Boldusieva and Lada Sokoliuk
		[[[Radio Promin]]] Error: {{Lang}}: Non-latn text/Latn script subtag mismatch (help)		Dmytro Zakharchenko and Lesia Antypenko

Briefly:

• Radio Promin had same pattern of broadcast as during semi-final 1
• Timur Miroshnychenko announced during stream on Suspilne YouTube channel that he will have a co-commentator during the grand-final who will be announced by Suspilne on Friday.

|- Qcumber (talk) 03:38, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Notes

References

Carola and Charlotte

In the Final section, it lists Carola (Sweden 1991) and Charlotte Perrelli (Sweden 1999) as the performers. Carola should be correctly listed as Carola (Sweden 1983, 1991 & 2006) give her the credit deserved as she's the only woman to have finished top 5 in 3 contests (and 3 different decades). Charlotte represented Sweden in 1999 and 2008. 2A02:8309:2183:7800:6C98:725C:480A:BCC9 (talk) 09:46, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Their wins supersedes their other participations when it comes to talking about Carola and Charlotte's records, and this also applies to multi-time artists who have won once 2001:EE0:4607:6360:5EF:1EFA:E85A:347B (talk) 10:38, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Carola is not the only woman to have finished three times in the top 5.

Katja Ebstein from Germany finished 3rd in both 1970 and 1971, as well as 2nd in 1980. 2003:E3:9F26:4FEB:CCF1:5186:4FB4:71F0 (talk) 23:10, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Ukraine: Vasyl Baidak announced as grand final co-commenator

Source: https://suspilne.media/culture/742875-timur-mirosnicenko-ta-vasil-bajdak-budut-komentuvati-final-evrobacenni-2024/

The article about Vasyl Baidak is avilable only in Ukrainian wikipedia: https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Байдак_Василь_Васильович Qcumber (talk) 10:39, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Zapping will also broadcast exclusively Eurovision 2024 finals in Peru and Brazil. The broadcast on YouTube will be blocked for Chile, Peru and Brazil.

https://twitter.com/zappingbr/status/1788629621912608793

https://www.zapping.pe/blog/eurovision-zapping-peru

Pri Bertozzi will comment the event in Portuguese. DeadFreak781 (talk) 17:49, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Including streaming platforms of broadcasters?

In past years, the "Broadcasts" section generally does not list the broadcasters' streaming platforms (i.e BBC iPlayer, RaiPlay, RTVE Play) as channels unless they have their own stream for a different purpose than the linear broadcast. Should this stick for this year? Pdhadam (talk) 16:34, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

What convinced me to make this move was the fact that Yle Areena is indeed mentioned for past editions and I wanted to make the table more consistent. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 17:17, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

@Pdhadam:, @IvanScrooge98: If you ask me adding them just adds unnecessary duplication to some names already listed, BBC iPlayer was listed but not BBC Sounds? I say remove them for those that are just duplicating already listed commentators, but leave them in if a different commentator is listed. -- AxG / ✉  08:17, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

BBC Sounds was not added because it wasn’t mentioned in sources so far – or at least I had not seen it. What you propose may be a solution though. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 08:45, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

I would tend to agree with AxG's proposal. Streaming platforms generally tend to simulcast the terrestrial broadcast anyways, and it's only when there are additional commentary options which are available only on these platforms that we should then consider including them in the tables. I don't believe the footnotes which have been added here provide any additional value to the reader. It seems likely that the vast majority, if not all, of these broadcasters have streaming platforms and will broadcast the contest on these anyway, but only in some cases are they explicitly mentioned within the sources, and adding a footnote for close to two-thirds of the line entries just doesn't strike me as useful to the reader. The best course of action in my opinion is to include any simulcast information on streaming platforms within the individual country articles. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 19:18, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Big Five in the semifinal running orders

The Big Five should be included in the running orders for the semifinals, in a different colour to show that they're not competing but still a part of the show. LivLovisa (talk) 19:20, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

I agree that they should be included, but a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Eurovision#Tables for semis yielded no consensus for adding them. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 19:50, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Serbian broadcaster

They had 25 mins of the show cut off. This may have caused Poland and Iceland not to qualify. 109.176.113.2 (talk) 11:37, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

This is already present in a note in the "Broadcasts" section. Unless the EBU comments, though, it's not our place to say that the two countries might have gotten less votes for that. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 11:55, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

“Weaponising antisemitism”

Is it really fair to link to the page on the weaponising of antisemitism for Netenyahu’s claims of antisemitism. Surely it would be better to say that he thinks it’s antisemitism but others have accused him of weaponising it? To link directly to it makes it seem like fact rather than opinion. 94.173.220.20 (talk) 01:53, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

He brought up antisemitism as a response to human rights protests. Kinda speaks for itself. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 07:46, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Still very much just your opinion being presented as fact. 94.173.220.20 (talk) 19:08, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Table accessibility

I've just edited the 'Final' table to reduce the intensity of the red used to show the Netherlands' disqualification; the original colour had poor contrast with the blue links. I've also added a double dagger so that this information is not conveyed solely by colour.

However, I'm not as familiar with MOS:ACCESSIBILITY (specifically MOS:COLOUR) as I'd like to be, so if anyone would like to double-check this then please do. A.D.Hope (talk) 11:10, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

"Israeli participation" subsection

I'd appreciate it if another editor could double-check my edit to Eurovision Song Contest 2024#Israeli_participation. I've attempted to condense it considerably, particularly as this is not the main article for the topic. As the topic is controversial it seems responsible to draw particular attention to the changes. A.D.Hope (talk) 15:17, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Full spokespersons list and order released

Eurofestival News released the full list of spokespersons (https://www.eurofestivalnews.com/2024/05/11/spokeperson-eurovision-2024-italia-26-mele-rinuncia/) - with Kaarija in there still, despite his later withdrawal Pdhadam (talk) 18:33, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

More information on Eric Saade's keffiyeh

Eric Saade responded to the statement by the EBU with a quite effective response, I suppose it may be relevant information to add to the current section on his performance. Translated roughly, he says that he got the keffiyeh from his father during his youth and it was unimaginable that it would be considered a political symbol one day, and it would be like calling the traditional Swedish 'Dalahästen' a political symbol. He goes on to say the stance/statement by the EBU is plain racism and refers to this years' slogan: United by Music. https://www.svt.se/kultur/har-kuppar-saade-hade-palestinasjal-runt-handen Andthereitis (talk) 07:10, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Just added Saade's main points in the section. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 12:26, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

The above context has been removed during a recent pruning. I believe it could and should be re-added succinctly.

— VariousDeliciousCheeses (talk) 22:29, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Edit Request

According to NOS, the Dutch national broadcaster, which is a source in the article, the AVROTROS stement says Joost Klein didn't make a threatening gesture, but a threatening movement (NL: beweging --> EN: movement, while NL: gebaar --> EN: gesture). I believe this should be changed.

Maksiwood 2 (talk) 16:29, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Done. Happy to take your word for it on the translation, in conjunction with the sources. A.D.Hope (talk) 16:49, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

I’m not at all that this claim is correct though. As a native dutch speaker I can confirm the litteral translations are correct. On does not make a movement at someone, one executes a movement (e.g. taking steps) towards someone. However in Dutch this strict difference does not exist. The words “beweging” and “gebaar” are used interchangeable in common parlance. Having read the entire statement, the context makes gesture the correct translation. Tvx1 19:59, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm very happy to defer to others on the translation. A.D.Hope (talk) 23:42, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Some recent updates. The EBU is disputing the AVROTROS/Klein’s version of the incident through their director-general Noel Curran. It appears the Dutch broadcaster is trying to downplay the incident.Tvx1 21:50, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

References

Extended-protected edit request on 12 May 2024 (Split results)

I made an overview of the split televoting-jury results: [6]https://imgur.com/a/hyCwaB5 IkiEneng (talk) 23:59, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

ABBA Voyage

The article currently says that the Malmö performance of "Waterloo" was preceded by a pre-recorded segment in which the song's original performers, ABBA, discussed their Eurovision experience on the occasion of its 50th anniversary – I don't think this is strictly true. It appears that the show went live(?) to the ABBA Voyage arena in London – it certainly at least showed a crowd in the London arena – and the "ABBAtars" talking about "Waterloo" as part of that show. Kingsif (talk) 23:19, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

You are correct. It clearly were cgi versions of the ABBA members.Tvx1 00:30, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Extended-protected edit request on 12 May 2024

We now have a reliable source with details on what happened with Joost Klein and the reporter: [7]https://wiwibloggs.com/2024/05/11/avrotros-disagrees-joost-klein-disqualification-eurovision-2024/281669/ IkiEneng (talk) 23:57, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Actually that is the AVROTROS account of the events. They are not neutral. The EBU has already disputed this account.Tvx1 00:32, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Image representing the host city

Stortorget in central Malmö

I wanted to add an image representing the host city, but I cannot add it since I do not have an account and that seems mandatory for this article. So I leave the image here if someone else wants to add it. 2A00:1EB8:C1A7:D2DC:DD4A:F0FC:43BC:5CC3 (talk) 23:35, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

It's a lovely idea, but I don't really see this as something the article needs. I think the image of the host venue is enough. Aris Odi ❯❯❯ talk 04:33, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Nemo's final performance.

The starting position of Nemo in the grand final should be written in bold. Newrafal04 (talk) 06:00, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Also, got the winner's encore performance video up on YouTube? Just in case to include that on his track's page. VernardoLau (talk) 07:08, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Delay in publishing the Portuguese performance on YouTube

The video was only posted after the votes closed, which generated controversy. Fonte: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZn4-H6JvKU&ab_channel=EurovisionSongContest https://www.escportugal.pt/2024/05/esc2024-atuacao-de-portugal-na-final.html https://www.rtp.pt/noticias/cultura/eurovisao-ebu-protelou-publicacao-de-video-de-iolanda-com-simbolos-da-palestina_v1570890 Mestre Big Brother (talk) 09:08, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Bold country names in results tables.

I feel like there needs to be an explanation as to why Israel, Ukraine, Armenia, Serbia, Moldova and the Czech Republic have their names in bold in the tables detailing which countries have given their 12 points to which other countries. Could somebody please put in a brief explanation or alternatively remove the bolding? 89.246.98.39 (talk) 10:14, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

It's countries that awarded both 12 points from the jury and televoting to the same country; not sure why that's not noted — IмSтevan ^talk 11:00, 12 May 2024 (UTC)