User talk:IvanScrooge98

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Translation

Hello! Strange request here, but an article about me and my Wikipedia work has been promoted to Good article status at English Wikipedia and nominated for similar status at Spanish Wikipedia. I'm curious if you have any interest in translating the entry for other Wikipedia projects?

Figured I'd ask since your profile suggests you do translation work. Either way, happy editing! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 18:49, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

@Another Believer: hi there! Sure, I’ll gladly do some translation work when I get a spare moment for it. :) 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 16:56, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Like Wow, thanks so much! I appreciate your willingness to help. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 17:31, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi again! I'm curious if you might have time to revisit this request for Italian Wikipedia and/or Lombard Wikipedia. There's certainly no rush here, just wanted to ask again before this section is archived. Thanks again and take care for now! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 18:03, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Yep! I definitely did not forget about it, I’ve just been too busy for massive work like translation. But I will as soon as I can, I promise! 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 19:46, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

@Another Believer: it took me a few months, but I finally managed to translate the article to itwiki. Hope I did I good job! 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 13:16, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Wow, thank you so much, I will take a look later today. Much appreciated, ---Another Believer _(Talk) 13:24, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

@Another Believer: apparently all this served to nothing; an admin has already nominated it for deletion. 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 13:26, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Oh, I'm sorry to see (and hope your time wasn't wasted), but perhaps the entry will be kept. Interesting how an entry can be Good at some Wikipedia projects and deleted at others. We shall see what happens, but thanks again for trying. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 13:28, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Don’t worry, after all it actually only took me a few hours; but in all honesty I was a bit worried this would happen, having past experience with the different criteria used in the two wikis. As you said, we shall see. All the best! 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 13:34, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

WP:BRD

I have reverted your repeated introduction of the "Respell" gadget into Isengard to the status quo ante. Per policy, if you have been reverted, you either accept the reversion, or start a discussion. You should never try to force something that has been reverted into an article, it is not acceptable, specially from an experienced editor. Many thanks. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:41, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

@Chiswick Chap: I am aware and I’m sorry. Considering your argument for the revert I just thought making my point more clear in my following edit summary would be enough. 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 16:48, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

"Lombardéa"

I find this spelling weird, because the stressed vowel is in an open syllable, don't you? In this way every single Latin I would come to /e/... maybe it's because it creates a diphthong with ending /a/? --Stévan (talk) 21:28, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

@Stévan: you may not be wrong. I have seen it being used consistently on the Lombard Wikipedia and checking more thoroughly it does seem to be a variant; not sure what we should ascribe it to though. 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 21:36, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

@IvanScrooge98, unfortunately I got a lot of bad experience with all these transcriptions, and that's why I'm so boring in asking for sources.

For example, on it.wiki there was a period of fascination for laghée dialect (obviously because of Van De Sfroos), during which the mood was to change every single i in e, every u in o, and every ü in ö, without proper criteria, just to make it sound more laghée and different.

But reality is that there's no literature about this dialect, and existing literature says that these features are not so systematic and are limited to a very specific area of the Lake, while the rest tends simply to agree with comasco, lecchese or valtellinese; so I got a long working for cleaning up all these invented contents. Stévan (talk) 11:36, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

@Stévan: I completely understand and actually I am often just lazy when it comes to sourcing, my fault.

(Oh and by the way, regarding Western IPA transcriptions, I have been a bit busy in the past couple months but in a week or two I think I should get enough time to adjust the whole thing as we agreed.) Cheers! 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 11:47, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

@IvanScrooge98, BTW: at the time of that talk I got something to send you about distinctivity of [h] and [s] in some Eastern varieties... I found you on TLG but forgot to send it, and now I can't find you anymore.

Should I search better or did you quit? Stévan (talk) 18:19, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

@Stévan: hi there! Not sure what you refer to by TLG, do you mean Telegram? Because I’ve never been there to begin with. Btw sorry again for taking so long to adjust the whole IPA thing; too many things going on. 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 18:25, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

@IvanScrooge98 Yes, I thought it was that.... you got such as the same nickname, or similar.

No problem with IPA, it's not an urgency. Stévan (talk) 20:18, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

@Stévan: uhm, it worries me that there was (is?) someone with the same nickname elsewhere, since I had trouble with a stalker earlier on. Hope that’s nothing to do with this. 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 21:45, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

@IvanScrooge98 But consider I might even be wrong (that was months ago)... or maybe I just saw it somewhere else. Stévan (talk) 14:41, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

@IvanScrooge98 Anyway, this is the part of Sanga's Dialettologia lombarda, that I mentioned but couldn't recall exactly at that time, in which he tells about a couple cases of distincitivity between [s] and [h]: https://ibb.co/T2H7d5F. Stévan (talk) 14:56, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

@Stévan: that’s interesting – I referenced parts of this very work for my graduation thesis – but this particular case may be a bit too specific to be relevant enough for Help:IPA/Lombard, if this was your idea. Great input though! Actually I think we could and should use Sanga’s helpful phonological work to expand the relative sections at Eastern Lombard, Western Lombard and Lombard language (the latter two definitely need improvement). 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 15:17, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

@IvanScrooge98 It's totally irrelevant... I'm linking it just because you asked about what and where it was. Stévan (talk) 15:35, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

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Italian IPA request

Hello, You recently provided Italian IPA for the article I created, Bruno Fanciullacci. Would you please provide here the IPA of the names "Tosca Bucarelli Martini" and "Elio Chianesi"?

Festucalex: talk • contribs 17:46, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

@Festucalex: hi there! The names are pronounced [ˈtoska bukaˈrɛlli marˈtiːni, ˈtɔs-] and Italian pronunciation: [ˈɛːljo kjaˈneːzi, -eːsi]. Keep up the good work! 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 11:16, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! Festucalex: talk • contribs 13:35, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

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Ferdinand Magellan and Vitus Bering

Hi. Regarding [1], there is no lenition after nasal vowels in Portuguese. The correct European Portuguese transcription of Fernão de Magalhães is [fɨɾˈnɐ̃w dɨ mɐɣɐˈʎɐ̃jʃ]. Imagine if the Spanish name were Hernán de Magallanes (which is not far-fetched; Hernán is etymologically related to Fernando): the final /n/ would have the same effect on the initial /d/ of de, blocking lenition: [eɾˈnan de maɣaˈʎanes].

Regarding [2], there is no ⟨ɪ⟩ in Help:IPA/Danish. The syllabic vowels in Bering are the same: [ˈpe̝(ː)ɐ̯e̝ŋ]. [ɪ] is the usual pronunciation of the underlying /jə/ - see Danish phonology#Schwa-assimilation for more information. Sol505000 (talk) 03:03, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

@Sol505000: my bad, made the edits too lightheartedly.

〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 09:29, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

IPA needed (again)

I come to you again for some IPA. I'm improving Battle of Cerro Corá, and I need an IPA for that. Can you help, please? Thanks again for Bruno Fanciullacci, by the way. 〜 Festucalex • talk 07:43, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Doing it right away! And don’t even mention it :) 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 07:47, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks a ton! 〜 Festucalex • talk 07:55, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Egyptian Arabic pronunciation

Hi. Please, notice that your edit in Koshari introduced the wrong open vowel for an Egyptian Arabic word notated in IPA for the Egyptian Arabic pronunciation, not any other language. In the Egyptian Arabic phonology, the rules for the front versus the back open vowel is unexpected for non-natives and there is no rule that says all R's get the back variant. Many words can have either depending on the lexeme or only have one variant. It seems you've learned some Arabic, but that doesn't seem to be quite close to anything resembling Egyptian Arabic, if you thought the choice of the back vowel was correct. I was the one who created the pronunciation notation in the first place as a native speaker to explain to non-natives how it is properly pronounced in Egyptian Arabic. Thanks. --Esperfulmo (talk) 03:19, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Oh gosh. Thanks a lot!

〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 07:05, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

A barnstar for you

	The Eurovision Barnstar
	For your labours regarding Eurovision articles. I prefer 12 points instead of this but my country did not join the competition anymore :) Grazie Emreculha (talk) 00:52, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

@Emreculha: thanks a lot! Hopefully Turkey will be back soon and we will be able to exchange douze points! 🇹🇷 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 07:02, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Speedy tagging

You tagged Draft:Eurovision 2024 Possible Entries as WP:G2, and it was declined. You then re-tagged it, which is a violation of policy and disruptive. I reverted the tag. Don't do it again.--Bbb23 (talk) 18:52, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

My bad. 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 18:57, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

2024 eurovision

Is this : https://escxtra.com/2023/06/13/only-three-swedish-cities-bid-to-host-eurovision-2024/ source reliable enough to say that Malmö bid on hosting esc 2024? Ropesman (talk) 15:57, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

@Ropesman: this is the one that had been used earlier in the article but it has been challenged since it sources an unofficial Twitter account that does not seem very accurate. SVT has not yet reported so I think we should just wait for more reliable sources.

〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 16:15, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for the reply. Good luck further Ropesman (talk) 16:17, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Luxembourg in the Eurovision Song Contest 2024 has been accepted

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Sweden in the Eurovision Song Contest 2024 (June 30)

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July 2023

Hello. I wanted to let you know that your recent edit(s) to My Big Fat Geek Wedding have been removed because you cited the information you added to another Wikipedia article or an external wiki. As discussed at WP:CIRCULAR and WP:SPS, Wikipedia and other wikis should not be used in citations because they are not considered reliable sources. You are welcome to re-add the information using a different reference, perhaps from the article you originally linked to. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. DonIago (talk) 20:35, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Invitation

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Italy in the Eurovision Song Contest 2024 (July 22)

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Sweden in the Eurovision Song Contest 2024 has been accepted

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Speedy deletion declined: Israel in the Eurovision song contest 2024

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Your submission at Articles for creation: RTK's Festival of Song has been accepted

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Irish IPA

I dont know what can be done about it now but I’ve noticed that you made several unconstuctive edits of Irish IPA transcriptions particularly in 2021, mainly changing accurate transcriptions to spelling pronunciations. I thought you might want to know. 2A01:B340:85:3BCC:598A:C977:F47B:46A8 (talk) 20:48, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

If you indicate me what these pronunciations are I will take a look. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 20:54, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Music competition

Hi. I saw you put a lot of effort in the article about Festivali i Këngës in Kosovo. There used to be a similar competition in Kosovo before. There is even a section about that on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_composition_and_composers_in_Pristina#Akordet_e_Kosov%C3%ABs_%28Chords_of_Kosovo%29. Here is also the website of that festival for more background https://festakordet.com/en/start.html. Thank you for your effort! Fekk (talk) 20:03, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out! When I have some time I will take a look at that and maybe expand the “History” section of the article. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 20:11, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

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IPA request

Hi I hope you're doing well! Could you please do the it-IPA for: Enio Mora, Gaetano Panepinto, Francesco Del Balso, Michele Modica, Martino Caputo, Nick Nero. Thanks! Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 17:59, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

Hey there! I’m good, hope the same for you. Of course I’ll do it, no problem! ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 18:30, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

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Malta Eurovision Song Contest 2024

Hey, mind explaining the recent revert of my edit? What in that edit made it necessarily worthy of being reverted? Is there some new consensus on national final tables, formats? Why delete the links to the participants in the semi-finals section? Agwjkl (talk) 17:24, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Oof I’m sorry, the automatic edit comparison made it look messy. I just wanted to keep the tables more consistent with each other through the various ESC 2024 articles I’m editing. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 17:31, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Silia Kapsis

Hello Thank you for taking the time to contribute to Silia's Wikipedia page, it's much appreciated. However you reverted my edit which you should not have done. I have edited it back to what it should be, so please do not change it again. Silia's full birth name is Vasiliki Silia Kapsis (this is on her birth certificate and this is the name she was baptised with). You also reverted my edit regarding Claremont College. (Silia was awarded the award at the Claremont College which is located in NSW Sydney Australia and not the Claremnont College in Tasmania). And once again, I do appreciate your time in contributing to Silia's page, but please make sure the facts are correct. Thank you for your understanding. Becca05 (talk) 05:46, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

I understand, but you need a citation to demonstrate that this is her full name. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 08:34, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

It is in the first citation https://eurovisionfun.com/en/2023/09/cyprus-silia-kapsis-will-represent-the-country-in-malmo-with-a-song-by-dimitris-kontopoulos/ - It states Vasiliki (Silia) Kapsis in the article.

I am her mother, please stop reverting my edit.

Thank you 1.141.146.225 (talk) 10:26, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Exactly. It’s in parentheses, which means it’s a nickname, not her second name. How am I supposed to just believe you are her mother? ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 10:36, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Silia, is in parenthesis because this is what they call her, but her actual birth name is Vasiliki Silia Kapsis. I know I gave birth to her :) I must say, I am so glad you are thorough and that you have contributed to Silia's Wiki page, I appreciate it and it makes me feel very comfortable that you are diligent in your work, bravo. Happy to show you somehow I am her mum, not sure how that would work, let me know? Pluto160168 (talk) 10:43, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

If it was meant to be the second name, I doubt they would put it in brackets. In any case, the only thing you can do is citing an independent source clearly stating that. Your identity and alleged personal relation to the subject is unfortunately meaningless here on Wikipedia. See WP:VERIFY. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 10:58, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Ok thank you, I didn't realise that by having Silia's name in brackets would be a problem. I actually provided her name to the reporter that way. It was put in brackets to show that this is the name that people call her and not her full birth name. In any case, thank you for letting me know.

Could I ask you another question since you are on top of things. How would I add Silia's photo on Wikipedia? Can you please advise? I would appreciate your knowledge. Thank you Pluto160168 (talk) 11:06, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

You’re welcome. Sorry for being a bit harsh, you actually seem goodwilled. You can upload a picture here on Wikipedia (at Wikipedia:File upload wizard) if it’s not free and someone owns rights to it; or, if the image is free or you own its rights and decide to make the file free to use, on the dedicated platform for free files Commons. Make sure to provide all the info required when uploading. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 11:17, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

It's ok, I totally understand. You are being cautious and I appreciate it. In any case, I'll see if I can get it fixed somehow.

Regarding the image- Thank you for replying, it's much appreciated!

Have a wonderful day :) Pluto160168 (talk) 11:23, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, have a great day too! ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 11:29, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

I found a source where for each song the writers' complete names are listed. I think it could work ;) ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 10:24, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you so much, I really appreciate you looking into this and updating the birth name. You are wonderful! Have a lovely day! Pluto160168 (talk) 13:27, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

No problem really! Let me know if you have any doubts for the file upload :) ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 13:37, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello again

I hope all is well. I have just added a citation (6) and I am unsure if I have added it correctly. Would you be so kind as to check it? I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. Pluto160168 (talk) 04:15, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done! ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 10:32, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! Pluto160168 (talk) 22:17, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

One last question, at the top of Silia Kapsis's Wiki page, there is a template message. If you think it should be removed, please feel free to do so. I'm not sure if it still should be there or not. Thank you so much Pluto160168 (talk) 02:30, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

I haven’t dared to remove it so far since I wasn’t the one who added it but I think you’re right, it looks like there’s enough refs now. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 09:27, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! If you think it is ok to remove it and you think there are enough refs, please do so. I don't think I can remove it because of the conflict of interest (as per the Wiki rules) Pluto160168 (talk) 09:34, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

You’re welcome! And thank you for all your kind words. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 09:36, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Wow! You did it already, absolutely amazing, thank you once again. Pluto160168 (talk) 09:40, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Hong Kong names

Pinyin is the romanization standard for Mandarin Chinese and not Cantonese. If you would like to add romanizations, please use either Jyutping (preferred) or Yale romanization. NM 09:30, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Got it. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 09:42, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Eurovision Articles

I wrote this kind in ALL of the articles, why did you reverted it? Please return it back. 009988aaabbbccc (talk) 18:39, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, I was going to get to you to explain. Some of the changes were originally made by User:Grk1011 at Greece in the Eurovision Song Contest 2024; shortly after, I created the section in the other 2024 articles accordingly. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 18:44, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Every article that has been expanded to a higher rating (WP:GA for example) has the opening sentence describing where and when the contest took place. I find it odd to omit that. More recently, related to the edit Ivan noticed, I adjusted the typical second sentence that starts with "According to Eurovision rules"; honestly, it's just not necessary to say according to the rules. To me, it's sort of like well, obviously. Overall though, I think we need to pay attention to and address things that are habit as opposed to requirement. And @009988aaabbbccc: I'm sorry that you went through the effort of making those changes only for them to be reverted, but once again, this is the result of you doing mass edits without asking anyone if there would be a problem with it. I've mentioned that to you several times over the last few years and those warnings are still visible on your talk page. Grk1011 (talk) 19:39, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Eurovision edits

Hey, IS98! I hate having to do this, but of course we want to make sure folks are aware.

You have recently made edits related to the Arab–Israeli conflict. This is a standard message to inform you that the Arab–Israeli conflict is a designated contentious topic. This message does not imply that there are any issues with your editing. Additionally, editors must be logged-in, have 500 edits and an account age of 30 days, and are not allowed to make more than 1 revert on the same page within 24 hours for pages within this topic. For more information about the contentious topics system, please see Wikipedia:Contentious topics.

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Aiko (Czech singer) moved to draftspace

Thanks for your contributions to Aiko (Czech singer). Unfortunately, I do not think it is ready for publishing at this time because it needs reliable, independent sources to establish notability. I have converted your article to a draft which you can improve, undisturbed for a while.

Please see more information at Help:Unreviewed new page. When the article is ready for publication, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page OR move the page back. Significa liberdade (she/her) (talk) 03:28, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi, IvanScrooge98: Please note that this page was not moved to the draft space because of copyright violations. Rather, it was moved because all of the sources on the page are directly related to the subject. As noted in the message I provided, the page needs reliable, independent sources to establish notability. Please click the links to see which types of sources help establish notability for musicians according to Wikipedia's guidelines. Significa liberdade (she/her) (talk) 18:49, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi! I only see one source among those that is particularly close to the subject – i.e. the one from her personal website, for which I’ll be looking for an independent one. The others are third party-sources. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 19:00, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Eurovisionfun

Hi, from looking at various ESC edit history pages I've noticed that you have often cited Eurovisionfun. I'm of the opinion that Eurovisionfun is generally not a reliable source for ESC news other than those related to Greece and Cyprus, and it also often engages with sensationalist reporting. If you can, I suggest citing more trustworthy sources, preferably the originating articles. Pdhadam (talk) 17:23, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi! I see your point. I often use it as a source for the simple reason it is often the quickest to report news, but I will try to cite more reputable websites when I can. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 17:25, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

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A barnstar for you

		The Music Barnstar
		For your great contributions to Sanremo Music Festival-related articles, and this year's edition Sanremo Music Festival 2024. Can't wait to watch the show =) Broc (talk) 14:57, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much! Happy Sanremo week in advance ;P ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 16:48, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Nomination of Nasra Ali Abukar for deletion

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Alyona

Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Romanization of Ukrainian/Ukrainian National transliteration table would see the name Альо́на be romanized as Alona, so how is it Aliona in the article? — IмSтevan ^talk 12:39, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Look closely under O in the table :) ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 12:54, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

help requests for Leo Gullotta and others

Dearest Ivan, a cordial good evening from Campora San Giovanni. I am writing to greet you and thank you for the help you have given to the page that is so dear to me. Sabrina Ferilli. I saw you dealt a good hand. Naturally I ask you if you can and want to help me with two articles: Leo Gullotta and his partner Fabio Grossi, I'll start writing something about Fabio then if you help me I will be very grateful. Of course, if you need any favors, feel free to ask, I'm at your complete disposal. Luigi Salvatore Vadacchino (talk) 19:59, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Luigi! Thanks for your kind words even for the small edits I made to Sabrina Ferilli. I’ll be happy to help out with the English language if this is what you meant. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 20:04, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

HI Ivan, ok, proceed when you think best, I have written the page now draft:Fabio Grossi (actor), if you want to help them both, both Fabio and Leo. In the meantime, thank you very much and have a good Saturday. Luigi Salvatore Vadacchino (talk) 11:08, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Bambie Thug

On 18 February 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Bambie Thug, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Ireland's 2024 Eurovision entrant Bambie Thug describes their musical genre as "ouija pop"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Bambie Thug. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Bambie Thug), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

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Concern regarding Draft:Zoé Clauzure

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Edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sanguinaccio_dolce&diff=prev&oldid=1214498394

Hi. Regarding this edit, it seems strange to me that the English translation is this, since the food isn't a sausage. JacktheBrown (talk) 20:37, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

That’s what the word sanguinaccio refers to on its own. The link which you changed originally pointed at blood sausage#Italy. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 20:43, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

which one is correct? "Pig blood or pig's blood. JacktheBrown (talk) 22:41, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

These articles refer to specific Chinese delicacies. I wouldn’t link to any of those in the lead despite the similarities. Again, sanguinaccio refers to a "blood sausage", which is only called "sausage" in English because of its shape. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 22:45, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

I got an idea. We keep the link and change the translation to "blood pudding". ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 22:48, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

no, I mean: "pig blood" (as in the article pig blood curd) or "pig's blood" (as in the article ti hoeh koe)? How is it correct to write it? JacktheBrown (talk) 22:57, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

I got an idea. We keep the link and change the translation to "blood pudding".

I agree. JacktheBrown (talk) 23:01, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Oh, sorry for misunderstanding. My edit was aimed at having the same form in both instances where it is mentioned in the article, and I thought "pig blood" sounded better. But as a non-native speaker, I guess "pig's blood" might also be fine if it's used elsewhere. Thanks for reaching out! ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 23:08, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

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Morroccanoil

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. This means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be although other editors disagree. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus, rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

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June 2024

Please do not add or change content, as you did at Youness Bengelloun, without citing a reliable source. Please review the guidelines at Wikipedia:Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you. GiantSnowman 15:49, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

A cup of tea (and/or coffee) for you!

Thanks for massively improving Moroccanoil and defending it from vandalism. - 20WattSphere (talk) 10:07, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much! Have a lovely Sunday! ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 10:15, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

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Palestine at the 2024 Summer Olympics

Not sure if you knew, but any of this user's edits pertaining to the Arab-Israeli conflict were in contravention of WP:ECR. You're free to revert them as you wish. Left guide (talk) 13:10, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Oh, thanks for the heads up! I have actually had a discussion with the user at talk:Palestine at the 2024 Summer Olympics and I think the current standing of the article is pretty fair. If I see her intervening on the area again I will notify her. Cheers! ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 13:29, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Oh, nevermind, just noticed you already did the job! Thank you! ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 13:31, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

August 2024

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at 2024 Summer Olympics closing ceremony flag bearers. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been or will be reverted.

• If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, please discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek consensus with them. Alternatively, you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant noticeboards.
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Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive. Continued disruptive editing may result in loss of editing privileges. Thank you. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 17:21, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

@Sportsfan 1234: please note that, if you change one entry of a whole column instead of changing the whole column, you are making unconstructive edits. Before being consistent with another article, an article has to be consistent with itself. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 17:32, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Portuguese pronunciation

Hello again. I've noticing you're recently reverting many of my changes regarding the phonetic transcription of portuguese place names, and even tho we already talked about this i'll have to manifest some objections.First of all the specification of european or brasilian portuguese seems absolutely redundant and unnecessary; if we're talking about a place in portugal the pronunciation given should obviously be understood to be the european one, and vice-versa for Brasil. Secondly, the page for portuguese IPA transcription is riddled with errors and unnecessary features (i know, i know, i'll have to start a talk page) and that's why i started correcting the pronunciations. One error, for instance, is rendering the diphtong "ão" as [ɐ̃w] , which is obviously absurd since nasalization is present through out the whole diphtong-that's why it's called a nasal diptong! Also the usage of "w" itself is incorrect because portuguese doesnt have semivowels (only asyllabic vowels)- i'll eventually explain all in that talk page. Just one final thing: you just reverted the pronunciation of Melides (which is my home village, that's why i added the local pronunciation) to [mɨˈliðɨʃ] with a fricative "d"; that's one of the other errors of the official transcription scheme; here in the south we never pronounce b d g as fricatives. Sérgio R R Santos (talk) 17:34, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

As I told you, European vs Brazilian changes the categorization: Category:Pages with Brazilian Portuguese IPA and Category:Pages with European Portuguese IPA. [ɐ̃w] follows the help page (see the transcription of João there). Additionally, choosing [w] and [j] over [u̯] and [i̯] has to do with how we choose to transcribe the same sound—and at the moment the established consensus is for the former, again see the help page. As for the pronunciation of /b d ɡ/, I preferred to stick to the main variant of Lisbon Portuguese in accordance with the help—we can add local pronunciations in addition, as is already the case for Melides. To sum up, I’m simply following the current key; if we change it, we will change those transcriptions too, but for the moment not reverting those would confuse the reader. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 18:23, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

All right, i understand what you're saying, even though i disagree, and as a native speaker of portuguese, especially of a non "standard" variety (whatever that means) i can tell you that the state of portuguese linguistics is very poor, and is very easy for someone from Lisbon just say "the variety I speak is the standard one" in detriment of other varieties whitch to me amounts to linguistic racism, but anyway this isnt the place for that conversation.

Regarding "choosing [w] and [j] over [u̯] and [i̯] has to do with how we choose to transcribe the same sound" - no it isnt. According to your user page you have "a near-complete understanding of the International Phonetic Alphabet", which is the same level i attributed to myself, so you should know that the difference is that [w] and [j] are (even though they share a great deal of their features with the corresponding vowels) phonemically consonants. There's a reason why in english transcription both semivowels (=consonants) and asyllabic vowels are used; the 'y' in 'yes' is a different phoneme than the'y' in 'day' Sérgio R R Santos (talk) 18:54, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

More than anything, the issue lies with having to make stuff simple for readers; we stick to one main European variety (and more ore less one main Brazilian) to avoid confusion. As I said, local pronunciations can always be added. Regarding IPA, as I guess you know, there is never one way to transcribe the same pronunciation, since there are various levels of narrowness. For example, I could render my name as /ˈivan/ [ˈiːvan] [ˈiˑva̠n̺] etc. The same way, while we know [i̯] and [j] are not the exact same sound, we could chose to always adopt either of the two symbols for the mildly narrow system used here. At the moment it is [j] for all instances. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 19:02, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

I highly disagree with the last part; i just gave you the example of english where they are phonemically different sounds, but anyway, there's no point in waisting my breath here; i'll start a talk page in the PT-IPA page. Eventually. Some day. When i'm in the mood.

Sérgio R R Santos (talk) 19:11, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

In English those are two different phonemes, in Portuguese they aren’t. The key we follow is designed for Portuguese and is not even phonemic anyway. But yes, if you want to change it, I encourage you to discuss it there. Kind regards :) ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 19:15, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

You're not understanding, it's not a question of being the same or different phonemes, it'a a question of semivowels not existing in portuguese; you have dipthongs like in 'pai' (father) or 'mau' (bad), where the second vowel is always asyllabic, and then you have words like 'pior' (worst), in which the unstressed 'i' before a vowel can be pronounced syllabicaly [piˈɔɾ], or asyllabically - [ˈpi̯ɔɾ] (usually transcribed [ˈpjɔɾ]) ; in languages that have true semivowels (again, like english) you usually dont find this alternation. Sérgio R R Santos (talk) 19:38, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

And I was talking about the transcription, simple as that. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 19:40, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

(Ah, little side note—this is more technical than anything: in Unicode, the characters for regular lowercase G and its IPA counterpart are different: the former is ⟨g⟩, the latter is ⟨ɡ⟩. Make sure you use this one in IPA transcriptions. Thanks again!) ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 19:18, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. But why, is there any noticeable difference? Sérgio R R Santos (talk) 19:40, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

In certain fontes there is, in other there isn’t. The former may be displayed differently (i.e. with a fully closed "tail"). ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 19:43, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

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Golegã

So, you have been reverting my changes of pronunciations of Portuguese place names, which, fine, you're following the rules, but this one I just recently noticed that you change it "per audio file" which is given as [ɡɔlɨˈɣɐ̃]; now, even when I changed it I started a topic in the talk page regarding the first syllable, which i think is pronounced incorrectly (acttually the recording is more like [ɡoɫɨˈɡɐ̃] ), I even think (I know I did, just rechecked) I googled how to pronounce it and ended up in some youtube promotional videos and if I remember correctly I only heard the pronunciation [ɡulɨˈɡɐ̃], as expected from the spelling - although there are some Port. place names where unstressed vowels are not pronounced as expected and that's not indicated on the current portuguese spelling system. But as I said I only encountered the expected pronunciation with [ɡu-] - I think the guy in the recording either misspronounced it or he just pronounced the [u] more like [ʊ] which gives to the listener the illusion of an open vowel. Anyway all this just to say that the first vowel should be changed to [u]. Sérgio R R Santos (talk) 01:19, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Also, if we're taking the recordings as a base for the transcriptions, then they would largely adhere to the changes I was making, since that guy uses a rolled R and almost never pronounces /b/ /d/ /g/ as fricatives. Just saying. Sérgio R R Santos (talk) 02:33, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

My bad, I guess we should remove the audio file from Golegã then. I wasn’t exactly basing everything on the audios, but, not thinking that the /ɔ/–/u/ distinction could be affected by unfamiliarity with the toponym, I went along with what I heard. For the consonants I was following the help key. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 09:10, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Now that I listened to the audio again, I also noticed that he seems to use an /a/ phoneme instead of /ɐ̃/. His pronunciation sounded more like [ɡoɫɨ̥ˈɡa] so I got convinced it was weird enough to be removed. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 09:14, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

No, I think the audio is fine, I clearly hear a nasal vowel, it sounds more like [ɡʊɫɨˈɡɐ̃] ~ [ɡoɫɨˈɡɐ̃] to me, the unclearness about the [u] may have to do with it being in an unstressed syllable and/or being followed by the velarized [l]? (Unless the creator of the audio actually thought it's pronounced with [o]? I'd suggest contacting him to dissipate any doubts but I dont see any activity in his account since 2018, so I dont know if you'd have any luck with that). I think you can put the audio back and leave the pronunciation as it is. It's not that far off, anyway. Sérgio R R Santos (talk) 11:51, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Fair enough, I’ll trust the native speaker here. Thanks. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 11:58, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

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Re: Lucario

The formatting of that is being done to match Raichu, a FAC article and the feedback given there. Managed to find a way to make the template work with the IPAc one at least, but there is a rhyme and reason there at least. Kung Fu Man (talk) 23:33, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

I’m sorry, I had no idea. The problem is the IPA should go after the spelling it represents (i.e.the English rendition), not after other text in the middle. I figured my edits were the only way to keep the {{nihongo}} layout. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 23:40, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

@Kung Fu Man: I now edited both pages to keep them matching. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 23:47, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

I think you have the right idea but you're going about it wrong: the nihongo template isn't using the notes version to keep it visible for the reader, as in the case of such article it allows for more easier checking of Japanese sources and has been the case for about...500 articles? You're forcing the reader to check an unnecessary notes section as a result and I don't see you doing this for every article that has this.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 23:57, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

I got it, but mine is, in my opinion, the best looking solution with the options currently available. I guess we could propose a change to the nihongo template allowing for extra text before the Japanese translation so we don’t have to force Japanese into a note. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 00:07, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Well there is an alternative of doing it manually with text/wikilinks instead of the nihongo template itself: it's currently just those two articles that need it, and once things progress further we can bring it up then as a necessity. It solves both of our problems currently. As for the additional template I don't think that's necessary. I was planning to do ogg recordings for cases like this and that should fill that role. What do you think?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 00:56, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Japanese text should still be enclosed in {{lang|ja}} for optimal display on all platforms. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 09:03, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

So basically we still need templates anyway. Regarding audios, I usually pair them with the transcriptions too, which is more helpful to readers. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 09:05, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Comma vs. semicolon

Hi. In response to this: it is semicolon as per MOS:DUALPRON. --Omnipaedista (talk) 20:33, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi! That section is actually still unclear with respect to what punctuation should be used between different pronunciations of the same spelling. The examples given only show how the English pronunciation and spellings in other languages are separated.

Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela (/ˌvɛnəˈzweɪlə/; Spanish: República Bolivariana de Venezuela) — this is clear and well-established; but is it

Venezuela (/ˌvɛnəˈzweɪlə/, Spanish: [beneˈswela]) — or

Venezuela (/ˌvɛnəˈzweɪlə/; Spanish: [beneˈswela])?

This is neither shown nor clarified by the text. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 20:57, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

(outdent) I think it is clear that different languages are separated by semicolons no matter the context (name in a different language, pronunciation in a different language). It would make little sense to draw a distinction.

Instead of having:
'''Nikita Khrushchev''' ({{IPAc-en|n|ɪ|ˈ|k|iː|t|ə|_|ˈ|k|r|ʊ|ʃ|tʃ|ɛ|f}}; {{lang-rus|Никита Хрущёв}} {{IPA|ru|nʲɪˈkʲitə xrʊˈɕːɵf|}})

We could as well have:

'''Nikita Khrushchev''' ({{IPAc-en|n|ɪ|ˈ|k|iː|t|ə|_|ˈ|k|r|ʊ|ʃ|tʃ|ɛ|f}}; {{IPA|ru|nʲɪˈkʲitə xrʊˈɕːɵf|}})

--Omnipaedista (talk) 22:33, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

It would be clear if the conventions on punctuation for the matter were clearly explained. Instead we only get two visual examples of analogous cases and no mention of either comma nor semicolon. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 22:40, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Sophia_Loren

Your recent editing history at Sophia Loren shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war; read about how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. --Hipal (talk) 17:20, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

September 2024

Your recent editing history at Jessica Pegula shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war; read about how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

You have been told that adding something new that gets reverted needs consensus to re-add. You have not received that on the talk page and you know it. Fyunck(click) (talk) 06:06, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Edit summary

Hello. I have noticed that you often edit without using an edit summary. Please do your best to always fill in the summary field. This helps your fellow editors use their time more productively, rather than spending it unnecessarily scrutinizing and verifying your work. Even a short summary is better than no summary, and summaries are particularly important for large, complex, or potentially controversial edits. To help yourself remember, you may wish to check the "prompt me when entering a blank edit summary" box in your preferences. Thanks! — Gor1995 𝄞 11:42, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi! You are right, I often don’t. It’s probably because in many cases the edit itself takes me less time than the summary would. But I’ll try to fill it in more consistently! ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 12:00, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

IPA's

Hello, I often see you adding IPA's to articles, I can't recall a single time they've been accompanied by a reference supporting them. As far as I'm aware, IPA's are not exempt from the WP:VERIFY and WP:OR policies.

I get that you might be enthusiastic about them and linguistics and I have no doubt your intentions are good, but like with anything else, people need to be able to check they come from a reliable source. If we leave it to Wikipedia editors it'll just be constantly tweaked because people can have different ideas on prononciations.

Like I said I have no doubts your intentions are good so I'm not trying to be disrespectful of your work, but unless you can point to some exemption I'm not aware of it seems to me like you're adding WP:OR. TylerBurden (talk) 20:10, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi Tyler! You are right, I more usually provide refs when the pronunciation has been subject to prior controversy. That sometimes also happens when I can’t easily find a source even if a pronunciation difference is obvious. For example, o in a closed syllable is never /ɔː/ in British English, where /ɒ/ is used instead; this is the case of Mjölnir which you have just edited. I’ll see if I can find a proper citation for this. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 20:19, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

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/n/ dropping in Dutch

It can be so indiscriminate that Martin Pieckenhagen, a German, was often called [ˈpikəˌɦaːχə] when he was playing for Heracles. I'm pretty sure nobody makes an effort to (consistently) keep the /n/ in Balentien. Sol505000 (talk) 09:19, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

That's interesting, I wasn’t sure it could also happen in cases where the /n/ does not end a morpheme. Thanks for the insight! ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 09:21, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

It does end a syllable in Balentien (which is enough), at least most speakers would say so, I think ("tien" being one of the most basic Dutch words, meaning "ten"). Sol505000 (talk) 09:23, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Re [3], you're right in the sense that Booij says that the oral non-native vowels (so [ɛː ɔː] etc.) occur only when stressed. I got that wrong. But you could provide a citation instead of saying "this is ridiculous", you know? Sol505000 (talk) 22:17, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

What I meant was that, if a nasal vowel can only be long but at the same time nasal vowels can only occur in stressed syllables, the logical conclusion would be that the unstressed nasal vowel changes in quality (gets shorter / loses the nasal trait / etc.), not that the syllable becomes stressed when it’s almost certainly not the case there. Now, our key only allows for long nasals and the previous transcription featured a short one, so that’s why I changed it. All I wanted was to match it. I never meant to dive into phonetic details since I don’t have a source to back this up and you seem much more knowledgeable than me, but please don’t try to force one or another phonetic rule at any cost without being certain whether the actual outcome is [kɔ̃ˈstɑ̃ː], [kɔnˈstɑ̃ː], [ˌkɔ̃ːˈstɑ̃ː] or something else. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 22:58, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Of course I meant the above assuming that the rule also applied to nasals, even if this time we’re lucky that it’s otherwise. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 23:05, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

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Your edits on Jan van Steenbergen

Greetings! Will you please stop reverting my correction? Not that I am questioning your expertise on the Dutch language or anything, but I know pretty damned well how to pronounce my own name, and believe me: nobody would ever call me "Jam". And since I am for the North of the country, I don't understand why you would insist on a typically Southern pronuciation like [ɣ]. See for example Hard and soft G in Dutch. Best, —IJzeren Jan _Uszkiełtu? 22:47, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello. I don’t question that you might know better than me how to pronounce your name, but what you might not realize as a native speaker are the automatic phonological processes that occur, such as the assimilation of /n/ into /v/. On a second note, if we have a key for the IPA transcription of a language, we must follow it; in this case, we are going to use ⟨ɣ⟩ to represent all the possible variants of that sound (otherwise we would need to add, for example, ⟨χ⟩ and ⟨ʝ⟩ to the key). Regards. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 00:02, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

(Also mind WP:COI). ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 00:03, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

I am indeed a native speaker, but I am a professional linguist as well, and again, I know very well how my name is pronounced. Again, nobody would pronounce my name as "Jam van Steembergen", except perhaps in very fast or sloppy speech. If you really feel the need to interfere with issues of Dutch pronunciation, then at least look at the details. For example, you mentioned Dutch phonology but missed an imporant point: "Apparently, /m/ and /n/ assimilate their articulation to a following obstruent in many cases." What this means is quite simply that it is NOT an automatic phonological process you can simply apply without even knowing the language. Also consider that names sometimes tend to behave differently from ordinary words. And as for the pronunciation of /g/, in the same article you can also read about the distinction between North Standard Dutch and Southern Standard Dutch. Just search in the article for "χ" and you'll find out that your claim that it doesn't exist in Dutch is incorrect. In any case, it is unvoiced, and frankly, I really don't understand why you would insist on the Belgian pronunciation /ɣ/ for a person who is obviously from the Northern part of the Netherlands.

And look, I've been here long enough to know very well what COI means. I never write articles about myself and rarely interfere with them. But you'll have to admit that this has absolutely nothing in common with any kind of selfpromotion.

(and also mind NOTASOURCE) ;)

Cheers, —IJzeren Jan _Uszkiełtu? 11:14, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

I already explained very clearly my reasons, there’s no need for a long explanation on Dutch phonology which is out of place. Since {{lang|nl}} points to Help:IPA/Dutch, it MUST follow that help page, which obviously simplifies the dialectal differences I am well aware of. You thought I was saying [χ] doesn’t exist in Dutch; on the contrary, I know it does. We just don’t transcribe it that way on Wikipedia. See MOS:DUALPRON. Thanks. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 11:22, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Fair enough. Well then, without further arguments, I would appreciate it if you could change the IPA to Dutch pronunciation: [joˈɦɑnəs ˈɦɛndrɪk ˈjɑn vɑn ˈsteːnbɛrxə(n)], which is compliant with Help:IPA/Dutch, and remove that footnote. Aha, and one more thing: I saw you added a caption to that photo, which is great, but please note that my name is "Van Steenbergen" and not "Steenbergen". Thanks, —IJzeren Jan _Uszkiełtu? 12:33, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

You missed the point again. The help uses ⟨ɣ⟩ to represent ALL ITS VARIANTS (so basically in a phonemic way), while ⟨x⟩ for the separate phoneme and cases where the voiced phoneme universally devoices. It also uses ⟨ɱ⟩, so we should be consistent with transcribing assimilation. Sorry for your name, I’ll fix it. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 12:40, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the correction. But for the rest, I am afraid it's you who's missing the point here. /ɱ/ is mentioned as an allophone of /m/, not of /n/. And even though in some cases it can indeed be an allophone of /n/ as well, that generally is the case only when people speak very fast, but it is certainly not a norm. Besides, the page you mention says nothing about /ɣ/ being the standard and /x/ being a regional variation. Honestly, I don't want to make this any bigger than it is, but I really don't understand why a person who obviously doesn't even speak Dutch would keep insisting on an erroneous IPA transcription. —IJzeren Jan _Uszkiełtu? 13:36, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

These transcriptions are meant to be as general as possible – unless more varieties are listed (e.g. Help:IPA/Portuguese, Help:IPA/Standard German). ⟨ɣ⟩ is used extensively for IPAs of Dutch names, regardless of the specific accent used by the subject / in the location of the article. Since you’ve been so insistent, I now reemplemented your version of this transcription, relinking it to the general Help:IPA page. I’ll let others deal with this. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 14:27, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! —IJzeren Jan _Uszkiełtu? 14:35, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Ole Sæter

Hi, wanted to note that your edit on Ole_Sæter that included both links to the Gaza Genocide and Israel-Hamas War was reverted by someone who is not permitted to make such edits due to the lockdown on edits around this topic. I elevated this to another mod and they reverted my edit and one of the other person's edits but missed this edit since they did not look closely. I don't want to edit to your version since I also do not qualify to make these edits (do not yet have 500 edits). If you wanted to take a look and correct it to your previous version, I would appreciate it. Carthradge (talk) 05:55, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for notifying! I restored my wording ;) ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 18:13, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

The edit was again reverted by a serial address against the rules around edits relating to the conflict. This page has been vandalized by ips and serials several times now, and it should probably be restricted in some way. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Carthradge (talk • contribs) 18:19, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for intervening. I agree something should be done, and I guess the issue could be reported to the arbitration committee per WP:PIA. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 19:45, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

@Carthradge I'm fairly sure Ivan meant Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement based on the results of the Israel case, not starting a new case request. Aaron Liu (talk) 21:56, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Yep, exactly! Sorry I could not provide this link, I tried to look for the appropriate page but I couldn’t find it when I was replying (lol). ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 22:01, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the link. I don't have any experience with arbitration and Wiki resolution as a whole. I've just been trying to elevate this issue to wherever it needs to be surfaced so it gets resolved. Carthradge (talk) 22:05, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Carthradge, you may withdraw your arbitration case by deleting your arbitration case. An arbitration case is a step of last resort only for extraordinary and complex cases. It is totally different to arbitration enforcement which simply apply rules created by ArbCom, and it is where ordinary violations in this topic area are resolved. Sir Kenneth Kho (talk) 22:23, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

I see it was already done for me. The article was also extended protected. As far as I'm concerned, this seems resolved now. Thanks! Carthradge (talk) 01:38, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

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IPA

Hi! Concerning this edit, Pellissier has an Italian name and a French surname. According to your edit, you are adapting your surname to Italian pronunciation: why? and according to which sources? I propose the {{IPA|/ˌlɔːrəm ˈɪpsəm/}} template. Simoncik84 (talk) 09:42, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello! I adapted the pronunciation because 1) he is Italian so most of his fellow nationals are going to read it that way 2) you should never mix different languages within the same instance of {{IPA}}, as that confuses readers as to what language they are trying to pronounce and (for cases like French and Italian) the transcription is going to link to a specific IPA key for only one of the languages. So I rather propose two separate templates. (I adapted the pronunciation of Pellissier in accordance to regular Italian reading of French words, see e.g. dossier). ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 10:11, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

In my opinion, you've invented an Italian IPA transcription of a French-language surname. I've linked this discussion on WikiProject Linguistics talk page. Simoncik84 (talk) 14:43, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

It’s not an “invented transcription”. It’s basically the only plausible adaptation of the pronunciation to Italian phonology. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 14:48, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi, by invented I mean non-sourced, and on wikipedia we must provide sources. Pellissier's case is similar to Sergio Busquets (Spanish name and Catalan surname), and since Busquets article is a high-importance one on wp:en (while Pellissier's is mid-important) if this template has been accepted for Busquets, we therefore should replicate it for Pellissier. I've deleted the French adapted pronunciation (again, which source?) of the Italian name "Sergio". How could we put the Catalanized pronunciation of the Spanish name "Sergio" (coincidence!) on Busquets's page? I've added the source for the surname, because it's the only sourced information we have. Simoncik84 (talk) 19:42, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Well, I don’t see any source for the Spanish pronunciation of Catalan Busquets, and yet no problem there. The situation was exactly the same at Sergio Pellissier before you intervened and mixed the French IPA with the Italian one. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 19:48, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

In any case I’m glad you could find some sources, thanks for that. Now the issue seems settled. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 19:52, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you …

… for fixing the references in two of my edits. I made both edits on the phone. Alas, formatting references properly is a pain in the ass in the mobile app, so I just added the URLs for the time being. (I meant to fix them later today when I'm on my laptop.) Just wanted to let you know that I didn't paste the bare URLs out of laziness. Thanks again! Isoglosse (talk) 06:58, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Oh, no worries! Thanks for clarifying. I take advantage to point a little thing out about IPA: for certain languages, categorization changes if you use a more specific language code in the {{IPA}} template. For example, in this edit, you added an Austrian German IPA; using the de-AT code adds the more specific Category:Pages with Austrian German IPA rather than the more generic Category:Pages with German IPA which includes Northern German. Cheers, and keep up the good work! ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 09:42, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

That's an interesting point. To be honest, I am not sure about using country-specific codes here (and maybe in general). I didn't have a lot of time to think about this, so please take my remarks with a grain of salt. In the transcription that you referred to, there are no specific Austrian features. The name would be pronounced the same in Germany (phonologically). As is evident from the transcription guidelines, there are very few differences between German as spoken in Germany and German as spoken in Austria anyway. Even the differences between Swiss German and the other two varieties are few and far between. So I would tend to collapse all three German national varieties into one diaphonemic transcription, similarly to what was done for English. It's just an anecdote, but I once used one of the few Austrian features described in the guidelines (word-final [ɛ] instead of [ə]) and tagged the pronunciation as Austrian – but it was reverted anyway 😁 So, I am certainly not opposed to using country-specific codes in transcriptions, and I am grateful for your edit. But if I had to advise on a revision of the transcription guidelines for German, that would be my take, I guess. Anyway, keep up the good work, you too, and thanks in advance for any future reference fixes on my mobile edits! Isoglosse (talk) 17:53, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

I only noticed now the addition of [ɛ] as the Swiss/Austrian realization of word-final /ə/. It was added a few months ago and wasn’t present before – I even doubt that’s the most common realization. And since transcriptions do not match, I’m tempted to revert that. Thanks for pointing that out! ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 18:11, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

I also had this thought when I saw the guideline: Is this really the most common realisation? Then I did two things: I checked a few reference sources, which agreed that [ɛ] or, more precisely, [e̞] is the most common realisation in all registers. (I'm on mobile again, but I'm happy to provide a source if needed.) Also, I watched the evening news of ORF, the Austrian public broadcasting service, and hardly heard a single schwa. So the guidelines seem to be accurate in this respect, but the question still stands if this couldn't be covered by a diaphonemic transcription. Isoglosse (talk) 19:01, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Oh, that’s interesting! It would definitely be useful if you could provide a ref on the help key, since the matter is not dealt with at the articles Austrian German and Swiss Standard German. But then we’ll have to make sure linked IPA transcriptions match the key. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 19:05, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

So, this is from Krech et al. (2009), Deutsches Aussprachewörterbuch (which is also mentioned in the reference section of the guidelines), relating to Austrian German:

“Das konsonantisch ungedeckte <-e> wird in allen Registern und Regionen als leicht offenes bis offenes kurzes [e̞] gesprochen, dessen Artikulationsstelle gegenüber [ɛ] zwar ein wenig gegen die Mitte eingerückt ist, was aber akustisch nicht als Schwa-Laut wahrnehmbar ist. Es heißt also [lˈib̥e̞] Liebe, [tˈiʃe̞] Tische, [ɡ̊rˈoːse̞] große, [ˈinsb̥e̞z̥ɔnd̥ɐre̞] insbesondere.” (Unchecked <-e> is close-mid to open-mid [e̞] in all registers and regions; though slightly centralised relative to [ɛ], it does not sound schwa-like.)

As you can see in the transcriptions, /ɪ/ is rendered as [i]. So, if we use [e] or [ɛ] instead of [ə], why don’t we use [i] instead of [ɪ] etc. as well? I think it would make sense to decide on an established convention to follow in the transcription of Austrian Standard German and then to apply it consistently. Krech et al. (2009) would certainly be a candidate because it also covers Swiss Standard German. There are a few peculiarities about their transcriptions (e.g., they use /aɛ̯/, /aɔ̯/, /ɔœ̯/ instead of /aɪ, aʊ, ɔɪ/, and they place the stress mark immediately before the stressed vowel, as shown above). But we wouldn’t have to follow them in that (because it is not in line with other reference works).

There is one more inconsistency in the guidelines for German that I have noticed: For /œːɐ̯/ (DE/AT) and /øːr/ (CH), the guidelines give surfen, Gouverneur as example words, but all reference works agree that these words have different vowels, namely /œːɐ̯/ for surfen (which tends to collapse with native /œʁ ~ œɐ̯/ as in Törtchen) and /øːɐ̯/ for Gouverneur (which also appears in native words, such as Möhrchen). Isoglosse (talk) 17:19, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Now, those [i] transcriptions complicate things a bit, since they also suggest that there is no distinction between /i/ and /iː/ in Austrian German; is that so? As for Gouverneur, a quick search is enough to prove you right so I’ll remove that right away from the help (it would be great if you could think of another example to replace it – let me know). ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 17:30, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

There is a distinction between /ɪ/ and /iː/, but it is only quantitative rather than quantitative and qualitative, as in many parts of Germany. Here is the quote from Krech et al. (2009):

“Der qualitative Unterschied zwischen Kürzen und Längen ist in allen Registern bei den Hochzungenvokalen gering, so dass die Kürzen im Gegensatz zur Standardaussprache in Deutschland, besonders aber in Mittel- und Norddeutschland nur ein wenig ungespannter sind als die gespannten Längen und sich in der Transkription dieselben Vokalzeichen empfehlen, z.B. [b̥ˈitn̩] bitten – [b̥ˈiːtn̩] bieten, [hˈisn̩] hissen – [hˈiːsn̩] hießen, [pˈupe̞] Puppe – [hˈuːpe̞] Hupe, [b̥ˈuse̞] Busse – [b̥ˈuːse̞] Buße, [v̥ˈyln̩], füllen – [v̥ˈyːln̩] fühlen.” (The qualitative difference between short and long close vowels is so small, with ‘lax’ short vowels being hardly less tense than tense long vowels, that it is advisable to use the same phonetic symbol.)

Additional examples for /œːɐ̯/ would be Service or Flirt. Isoglosse (talk) 09:56, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the insight! It’s thus only a matter of preference over the symbol, but I think it would be better to open a discussion at the help talk. As for Austrian and Swiss final /ɛ/, I’ll soon reinstate it with the proper referencing and change the related transcriptions. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 13:03, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

@Isoglosse: could you tell me what page the excerpt about [e̞] is? ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 14:02, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Well, everything is a matter of symbol preference (or convention) when it comes to phonetic transcriptions, isn’t it? 🙃 What I am trying to say is: /ɪ/ is not [ɪ] in Austrian German but [i] and /ə/ is not [ə] but [e~ɛ] – but the current guidelines only reflect one of these aspects. And there is probably more that is missing (I only had a quick look at the rest of the chapter). So right now, it feels inconsistent to me. It would probably make sense to open a discussion on it.

The excerpt about [e̞] is on p. 246 of Krech et al. (2009). Isoglosse (talk) 16:20, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, considering the help already lists ⟨i⟩ it makes sense to use it for Austrian German /ɪ/ too, since we might end up with transcriptions like [siˈnɪstɐ] where two different symbols basically represent the same sound. I still feel it would be a big step for a couple users to take boldly though, so expanding the discussion at a public talk is best in my opinion. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 16:29, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

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