Talk:Palestine at the 2024 Summer Olympics

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Proposed merge of Draft:Palestine at the 2024 Summer Olympics into Palestine at the 2024 Summer Olympics

Draft and article overlap and should be compared and combined. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:29, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support in order to bolster sourcing and content of the article. ASmallMapleLeaf (talk) 19:04, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done ASmallMapleLeaf (talk) 22:25, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Article [3] does not state info about Gazan Weightlifter who injured his knee ect..

Possible fake Info? OfirShtorch (talk) 11:20, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It does. Under the section “WATCH: Heavy toll on Palestinian athletes as Olympic games approach”. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 12:39, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There. I added a video ref where the athlete himself recounts his injury. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 13:05, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 27 July 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

It claims that 69 Olympians have been killed in the 2023-2024 Israel-Hamas War, which is obviously misleading. Are there even 69 Palestinian Olympian’s to begin with. The article referenced does not clearly state this and references the 69 figure without a specific time frame, though possibly since 2004. 69.127.138.111 (talk) 21:39, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

1) What edit are you requesting be made? 2) Why wouldn’t there be 69 Palestinian Olympians when Israel has 88? 3) The article clearly states “Israel’s attacks have killed several Olympians as well. Sixty-nine have been killed during Israel’s ongoing assault” (i.e. since October). ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 22:55, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On a side note, the number supposedly includes former Olympians such as Majed Abu Maraheel. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 23:00, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

According to this wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_at_the_Olympics Palestine has had 35 olympic athlets since 1996 which makes 69 killed an impropable number even including former olympians. 217.61.151.84 (talk) 10:15, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I checked more thoroughly. PACBI cited this tweet as its source, where it basically says that those were 69 athletes who practiced Olympic sports, rather than literal Olympians. I’ll fix the wording. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 10:34, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The way it's written currently couldn't be more misleading. It says "69 Palestinian athletes of Olympic sports were killed in Israeli attacks between October 2023 and July 2024,[third-party source needed] including Nagham Abu Samra, a karateka who was expected to compete in the event, as well as Majed Abu Maraheel, Palestine's first Olympic flagbearer"

As his article saus, he died of kidney failure and was unable to get medical treatment due to the blockade - nothing to do with Israeli attacks. MaskedSinger (talk) 14:24, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Clarified the wording, since the strengthening of the blockade amid violent airstrikes is also a crime and is indeed part of the attacks. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 14:30, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

thank you. appreciate you. MaskedSinger (talk) 14:51, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I tagged this as unreliable per WP:ANADOLU for now, if nobody finds another source confirming this it should be removed. Now that the Olympics have started I'd expect reliable sources to cover it over the next few weeks if it is true. Jamedeus (talk) 23:42, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Changed the sources. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 00:27, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Using an unsubstantiated tweet as evidence

Continuing off the 28 July 2024 edits, PACBI cited this tweet as evidence of 69 Olympic athletes who died.

There are 43 people pictured, no names, and many appear to be small children. There is no additional documentation of names of the dead or what sport they played.

"athletes of Olympic sports" still does not imply to the average reader that these are not Olympians. The wikipedia page has been cited in other false claims going around the internet. Gogopotatoto (talk) 02:58, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The names are cited in the PACBI tweet. Wait. “Athletes of Olympic sports” means they could have become Olympians if Israel hadn’t brutally murdered them, it’s pretty obvious. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 09:26, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@IvanScrooge98 where do you see names cited in the tweet? I've been looking for days since the Olympic meme went around. Gogopotatoto (talk) 12:18, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is the tweet I’m referring to. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 12:22, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for sharing that. That tweet makes the claim directly that these 69 athletes would be playing in Paris currently, which has been proven false in your early talk thread.

It also doesn't provide links back to real sources. I haven't counted the names, but in spot checking some most do not appear with any additional web hits in google, which would be impossible for an athlete bound for the olympics who participated in any qualifying events.

Names I checked without links:

Aref Al-Nabahin
Yasmeen Sharaf - I have found multiple different spellings of this names, and claims that they were a 6 year old footballer but also a karateka. All appear to be linking back to this post which has the same issues.
Hamen abu mou'leq
Rami Abu Shaweesh - There is a story including his death from family in Michigan. There is no mention of him being an athlete.
Ahmad ebied
Anas Hamdan - A few weird hits come up about being a Jordinian paraolympics footballer or an Israeli footballer, but I cannot find clear evidence for either.
Tahseen Taleb
Ameer Al-helou
Jamal Al-eqaily
Izz edin abu toha - cited as the chair of the Union of Housing Cooperatives in Palestine. No internet mentions of their death or of sports.
Saber Namnam

Names with clear links who have been killed:

Ibrahim Quasie'a
Raghad Al-Jabri - It doesn't say she's an athlete anywhere, but there is a photo of her in a wheelchair on a basketball court

I do not have time to continue, but hope this settles your questions about sourcing. Gogopotatoto (talk) 16:10, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~1) They were not bound for the Olympics, this has been settled in the discussion right above and the current wording is pretty straightforward.~~ 2) It is very possible that you don’t find many of the names simply for being approximate transliterations directly from Arabic (Qasie’a vs Qusaya, just to cite one example). So this doesn’t really prove much. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 16:43, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nevermind about my first point, but the fact that they are not literal Olympians – which has been misinterpreted by PACBI – doesn’t mean that those names aren’t valid. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 16:45, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I gave you 11 names. Please, find anything on them. Spend your day going through the video one name at a time and find evidence that these are athletes, let alone people who are dead. I looked for name variations as well given the transliteration challenge. Google found Ibrahim Quasie'a immediately as a top link despite the name variation.

These are not real athletes. It has nothing to do with being olympians. Wikipedia has rules about citations and credible sources. There is nothing credible about this tweet.

I did not "misinterpret" the tweet you provided.

The tweet says "Israel has killed 39k Palestinians in Gaza, including 69 Olympians, Palestine's first Olympian Majed Abu Maraheel & Olympic football coach Hani Al-Mossader."

The video says "If Israel's genocidal apartheid regime hadn't killed them... they would be participating in the Paris Olympics" Gogopotatoto (talk) 18:32, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Read my previous comment again because you are mistaking my words for accusations against you. The fact that there’s 69 of them doesn’t mean that we’re going to find stuff about 69 different people online, or that these are not real athletes, as you claim. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 18:52, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And read mine again. I bring up that they appear to not be real athletes because you insisted Israel "brutually murdered them" when they cannot even be sourced as real people.

I checked 13 names. 11 did not have sources as athletes. Only 4 had sources showing a person by that name died recently. This is not a source that should be used in any circumstances as fact.

Why are you so insistent on using a source that has blatant falsehoods in it? Gogopotatoto (talk) 19:21, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Because the claims are not just made by a random user on social media. The wording “The Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel reported that, according to the Palestine Football Association […]” is clear enough – the reader knows who has made those claims, and the article doesn’t present them as straight facts. When the spokesperson of the IDF says that a list of weekdays is actually a list of dangerous terrorists, that also goes reported despite it being a blatant falsehood. And most importantly, if I practice a sport as a private citizen and get murdered amid one of countless killing sprees in the span of a fews months, how likely is specific information about me to appear on the news? Of course PACBI is going to go for sensationalism and say “oh they would have surely gone to the Olympics”, but that’s a different discussion. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 19:36, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

BDS are political activists, not a neutral news source, and they should not be used as a source here. The claims might be true, but a better source is needed. LivLovisa (talk) 20:21, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the balanced take. Again, the source is stated very clearly before the claim in the article and I made sure the info is not presented as an absolute truth per WP:NPOV. I agree it would be better if we had an established news source reporting this. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 20:45, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you too for your civil reply.

Anyway, such a statement, even when not presented as absolute truth, still violates MOS:WEASEL. The fact that established news aren't reporting it means its validity is uncertain enough that it's a bad idea to say such a politically charged statement in an encyclopedia. LivLovisa (talk) 21:34, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I’m sorry, but where are the weasel words in the above statement, which is the way the claims are currently reported in the article and mentions (as well as linking to) the two sources? ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 22:12, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You admitted yourself a few comments ago that this is sensationalism. If this is not reported by any reliable news source, and you yourself admit that the only source is sensationalist, what informational value does this claim have on this page? LivLovisa (talk) 22:27, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was referring to the wording in the Wikipedia article—WP:WEASEL is about failing to provide the reader a clear source for a claim, which I haven’t. PACBI did report that in a sensationalistic tone, but that is, again, a separate matter and doesn’t mean the information itself is necessarily inaccurate. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 22:53, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What I mean by WP:WEASEL is that the statement is dressed with authority from a biased source. That in itself would be okay if this statement was relevant to something else, but it's not. Removing the statement which I edited and you undid, still keeps the factual information reported by media, while removing the unproven statements shared by political think-tanks. LivLovisa (talk) 23:12, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]