Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2024 September 5

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September 5

Is it appropriate to place infoboxes after a section heading?

Each US president has a separate article about their presidency. These articles include an infobox that contains a few pieces of information and navigation links to the preceding and succeeding presidencies. (Here's the article on Biden's presidency, for reference).

However, three presidents (William Henry Harrison, Zachary Taylor, and James A. Garfield) had presidencies that were too short to warrant their own articles. Any links to their presidencies redirect to the presidency sections of their personal articles (Presidency of William Henry Harrison, Presidency of Zachary Taylor, Presidency of James A. Garfield). Since these sections are being used as a substitute for separate articles, I think they should have the presidency infobox. Taylor's section already has one.

However, I wanted to make sure that there's no rule that says infoboxes must be at the top of an article. Would this be considered proper usage? TheLegendofGanon (talk) 00:27, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello, TheLegendofGanon. I agree with you that these presidencies were too brief for their own articles. If so, why are presidency infoboxes desirable or useful? Cullen328 (talk) 03:51, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

My main concern is navigation. If someone is clicking through, using the infoboxes to go from one presidency to the next, then they'll eventually hit one of these short-tenured presidents. The lack of an infobox might throw them off a bit, and they might have trouble finding the next president. It wouldn't be too hard, granted, but we should make it as easy as possible to navigate around the site. TheLegendofGanon (talk) 07:29, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

We don't have a "rule", but our guideline MOS:INFOBOX expects that if an infobox is used (it does not have to be), that it is usually used in the lead. Infoboxes are not meant to provide navigation, that is meant for navboxes. I see Template:US presidents has links to each Presidency for example. CMD (talk) 11:24, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

So you would advise against adding presidency infoboxes to Harrison's and Garfield's articles?

Would you also recommend removing the one that already exists on Taylor's article? TheLegendofGanon (talk) 12:38, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I personally think the infobox currently at Zachary Taylor#Presidency (1849–1850) is a bit much for a section but would be OK without the image and seal. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:39, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I don't see an issue with two infoboxes in an article. Can't Help Falling in Love is an example where it works. Alternatively, you could try and combine the information into one infobox, like Burgess Owens. Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 15:08, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

where is our article on the fraction slash?

I can't seem to find it anywhere. We show how different fonts display it, and I wanted to use the syntax for another article.

(There's a table with the fraction 1/2 composed of normal digits and the Unicode fraction slash, with each row defined as a different fonts.)

— kwami (talk) 03:56, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Kwamikagami. Take a look at Slash (punctuation). Cullen328 (talk) 04:02, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, but I don't see it there. They don't even use it in the examples in the 'fractions' section. — kwami (talk) 04:05, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Ah, I found it. It's at Unicode superscripts. Thanks! — kwami (talk) 04:32, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Remove

Moved to Wikipedia:Teahouse --112.208.236.135 (talk) 04:37, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Two articles created on the same topic, my bad.

So this article got created, but weirdly enough, it didn't appear in the WikiData list on the french Wikipedia.
Pélicot affair, created earlier, and my creation, Mazan rapes case.
The issue is this affair has three possible names. I don't know which name to choose for it. We obviously need to merge them, but I really don't know what to do, any help to rule this thing out would be welcome.
Personally I'd be more for Pélicot affair, since the other user created it first, and because why not, but the french wikipedia opted for Mazan rapes case, so honestly I don't know what to do there, would like some help to figure it out.
I don't know what the rules are about cases and affairs article names.
Thanks for any help! Global Donald (talk) 04:22, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Global Donald: I see that Mazan rapes case is longer, better sourced, and written in much better English. I would hope that Pélicot affair can be deleted, and superseded by your version. But I don't know if Wikipedia protocols would allow this. Maproom (talk) 06:57, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

We likely wouldn't need to delete the article, simply change it to a redirect after it's been properly merged. WikiData might have to make some changes though Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:13, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Not really your bad, nothing wrong was done. If you're happy to merge with the Pélicot affair article, then I would recommend you boldly merge over the Mazan rapes case text into the Pélicot affair article. The best title may become clearer with time, as this is an ongoing case. CMD (talk) 11:29, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi, I've merged Pélicot affair into Mazan rapes cases. Jean Abou Samra (talk) 20:23, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

wikipedia user page background skin thingy?

im trying to find the template that changes the background of a user page but I don't know where to look or how to find it, help will be appreciated! ModdiWX (message me!) 13:09, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

@ModdiWX: Do you want to change your own user page for everybody, or all userpages for yourself, or something else? For the first, you can wrap the whole page in code like <div style="background-color:yellow;">...</div>, assuming the editable area of the page is enough. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:31, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

i wanna make it for everyone who views my userpage ModdiWX (message me!) 15:26, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

.... then what PrimeHunter suggested will work (I tried it in preview). You have some boxes which won't show the yellow. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:17, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

You can change <pre>to <pre style="background-color:yellow;"> if you also want the color there. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:36, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

anyone? ModdiWX (message me!) 14:27, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

arxiv.org link changes

There are many links to arxiv.org papers on wikipedia.

There are also links from a mirror at lanl.gov (US Los Alamos National Laboratory). These are in the format x x x.lanl.gov. These no longer work.

Can all these links be updated from https://x x x.lanl.gov/{path} to https://arxiv.org/{path} ? Brian Caruso (talk) 14:17, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

The lanl URLs have additional spaces in them to avoid automated quality checks on help desk posts. Brian Caruso (talk) 14:20, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

@Brian Caruso a job for WP:URLREQ. Can you repost this request there? – robertsky (talk) 14:26, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

@Robertsky I will do that. Thank you. Brian Caruso (talk) 14:29, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

English Teacher

Hello, there are a few inconsistencies on English Teacher Wikipedia: English Teacher

How do we get this amended? 212.161.122.27 (talk) 16:42, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Please detail any errors at Talk:English Teacher. 331dot (talk) 16:45, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia is built by volunteer editors like you; if you see a problem on an article, instead of waiting for someone else to, we encourage anyone to be bold and change it! See the essay at Wikipedia:Be Bold for more. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 16:45, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

OP's "How do we get this amended?" suggests that they may have a conflict of interest; in which case 331dot's response is the correct one (albeit OP should also supply reliable sources to support any suggested changes); and OP should abide by our COI policy. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:10, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I understand that the use of we can indicate a conflict of interest. I do not believe, however, that the IP is associated with the group, and is likely just an anonymous music article editor from their edit history. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 20:15, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Change Page Title Before Publishing

How to change the title in the draft before publishing? The page isn't published yet and I need to change the page title. Moving the page isn't an option. DialaSharief (talk) 16:46, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

If you just want to change the name of the article and don't expect any pushback, you can list it at Wikipedia:Requested moves#Technical requests. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 16:49, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

There is very rarely reason to go through Wikipedia:Requested moves to rename a draft, and there is rarely a good reason to rename it at all before it becomes an article. @DialaSharief: Which page is it, which name do you want, and why do you think moving is not an option? PrimeHunter (talk) 18:17, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. Can I ask you how do I know if I submitted my draft for review? I can't find that option on the page I just published. I appreciate your help. DialaSharief (talk) 16:24, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Your draft lacked the information to submit it; I have added it for you. This information is provided if you use the article wizard to create a draft. 331dot (talk) 16:31, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

@DialaSharief courtesy link: Draft:Charlie Gray. Is this the draft you are talking about? 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 16:32, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Yes, it is called Charlie Gray. I don't understand why it wasn't submitted? Can you please explain further? DialaSharief (talk) 16:36, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

You can submit your article by adding the {{subst:submit}} string to the top of your draft article. However, I suggest changing bold markup (written as '''bold''' using apostrophes) to standard header markup (written as ==header== using the equal sign character). You can consult the Manual of Style for more about how articles are meant to look on Wikipedia. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 16:44, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

do you know why it takes 3 months for approval or rejection? I just submitted the draft and it says 3 months of waiting. Why is that? DialaSharief (talk) 17:45, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

@DialaSharief It is because there is no queue, there is a pool, and reviewers have different preferences for their next review. We also have a paucity of reviewers. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 17:49, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

@DialaSharief You will know already that I chose to pick your draft and have  Declined it, for the reasons stated at the head, and on your user talk page. There is much work to do. I hope very much that you enjoy the addition research. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 17:59, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

I appreciate your reply, but I followed all the guidelines. I read the reasons, but it's still not clear why it's been rejected. I added all sources as it should and it's written in the right format. Is it too long, is that the reason? I just submitted it for a review. Please guide me! DialaSharief (talk) 18:09, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

@DialaSharief Examples of Gray's output are not references. Let me try to explain. If they manufactured vacuum cleaners, the cleaners would be their work. A vacuum cleaner could not be a reference for them, simply because it is the product they make. So it is with research, writings, etc. However, a review of their work by others tends to be a review of them and their methods, so is a reference. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 18:11, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Could interviews be considered a reliable source to use as a reference? DialaSharief (talk) 18:32, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

@DialaSharief With the subject? No. About the subject, Probably. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 18:37, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

So it has to be interviews about the photographer but not with the photographer? So best reference would be articles mentioning his work in this case, is that what you mean? DialaSharief (talk) 18:40, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

@DialaSharief to be clear, the priority is to talk about him, but his work "is him" in a way. A review of his body of work, or a single item, does work towards verifying notability depending on who performs the review. My review of him or his work carries no weight. (do not confuse that with my review of the draft!)

Interviews per se only have the value of the perosn interviewed. Interview me about him and there is no value. Interview David Bailey about a fellow photographer and that has weight and value. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 21:52, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Well noted. Thank you so much. You've helped me a lot. DialaSharief (talk) 17:46, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Odd change reversion

Hello. Based on recent reporting from multiple agencies, I edited the page for Tim Pool to prominently (within the first sentence describing him) draw attention to charges that he is an alleged Russian disinformation asset. This was reverted by a moderator based on the assertion that these changes 'did not appear constructive'. This act of removal was, itself, not constructive: drawing attention to disinformation assets is *extremely constructive* and should be done whenever possible. 66.210.250.190 (talk) 17:36, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Your revision was likely undone for not being added from a neutral point of view and placing undue weight on the topic. If you'd like to dispute this reversion, consider bringing it up at Talk:Tim Pool. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 17:38, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Is “random” censored?

I don’t find much controversial topics on “random” is that by design or just coincidence? 67.198.51.62 (talk) 17:56, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

It's much more likely to be a factor of how many articles there are and how very few subjects are controversial. Valereee (talk) 18:06, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Size of Wikipedia and then see Wikipedia:List of controversial issues. Shantavira|^{feed me} 18:33, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Most random articles seem to me to be about sportspeople. Those are rarely controvesial. Maproom (talk) 06:50, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

I'm sure there's an article on United States vs Kostiantyn Kalashnikov and Elena Afanasyeva but I can't find it

If not, I can start writing it. But I'm guessing it's just called something else. Can someone help me double check? - Scarpy (talk) 18:04, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

@Scarpy This? RT_(TV_network)#2024 Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:32, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

sorting search results by size

Here is a search I conducted: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&advancedSearch-current=%7B%22fields%22%3A%7B%22intitle%22%3A%22alumni%22%7D%7D&limit=500&ns0=1&offset=0&search=alumni+intitle%3Aalumni&sort=last_edit_desc I'm curious as to which colleges/universities have the most notable alumni, so I'd like to sort the results by size, but I can't figure out how to do that. Is there a way? Enri999 (talk) 18:17, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

One problem with what you hope to accomplish is that often, the universities with the largest numbers of notable alumni have separate articles listing alumni. Examples include List of Harvard University people and List of University of California, Berkeley alumni and List of Yale University people. Cullen328 (talk) 19:33, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

@Enri999 It is unlikely you would be able to achieve what you want by article search but you might by a group of category searches. If I were you, I'd start at College and university rankings to find the top-ranked universities. Then I would look for the category relevant to alumni of the ones that are highly ranked and go to their category pages (e.g. Category:Harvard University alumni), where there will be counts. You need to bear in mind that en:Wikipedia has systemic bias: there will be many more articles here on US and UK people than on alumni from universities in other countries. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:51, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

@Enri999: This is probably more easily done on Wikidata. You can ask on d:WD:RAQ. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:32, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

missing pages

Hi, there was a page on James Garcia born Feb 3, 1980 a minor league baseball player which is now gone. How to find? 199.68.152.135 (talk) 19:36, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

The article on James Garcia was deleted 28 May 2024 as it lacked clear notability. You can read its deletion discussion on this page. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 19:38, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Edit a page by adding the name of the subject on second national language

Hi to everyone. I did an edit some days ago where i added a name of the page in the secon national language of the country but some people revert those. Can someone help me to understand? Thanks Lord Ruffy98 (talk) 19:38, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Your edits adding a secondary Berber name to the Algerian People's National Army have been reverted as they violate our policy on original research. Uncited material can be challenged and removed at any time. You are free to re-add these contributions on the condition that you can provide and cite a reliable official or secondary source for the Berber translation. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 19:42, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

@GeorgeMemulous: There was a citation in the reverted edit. Indeed, the edit which added it had the summary "Added a source of an official use of berber name of the People's National Army". There does not, though appear to be a citation for the Arabic version of the name, and yet that was not removed. The edit summary for the revert did not mention sources, but instead relied on MOS:FORLANG. However, says "Non-English names should be moved to a footnote or elsewhere in the article if they would otherwise clutter the first sentence", and yet that was, inexplicably, not done. Perhaps User:Skitash can say why? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:55, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

It was another editor that reverted Lord Ruffy98 for adding WP:OR, as their initial edit to the article did not contain any sources. I reverted them on the grounds of MOS:FORLANG, which states "If the subject of the article is closely associated with a non-English language, a single equivalent name in another language may be included in the lead sentence". Skitash (talk) 00:05, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Given that both the OP and GeorgeMemulous, to whom I replied wrote on 5 September, it seemed reasonable to refer to your revert of 4 September. FORLANG goes on to say, as I quoted above, "Non-English names should be moved to a footnote or elsewhere in the article if they would otherwise clutter the first sentence". Why did you revert, instead of doing that? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:29, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

So, am I not allowed to add names in Tifinagh for institutional bodies in Algeria and Morocco, considering that both countries have it as a second official language? Lord Ruffy98 (talk) 16:11, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

@Lord Ruffy98:, you believe that adding a Berber name improves the article and several other editors believe that it does not improve the article. That means that you are involved in a Wikipedia:Content dispute. The next stage is to start a discussion on the article talk page and ping the other editors involved: you could also look at the Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle. Wikipedia:Edit wars should be avoided as they are not constructive. TSventon (talk) 16:41, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

I don't like and don't want Wikipedia:Edit wars; that's why I asked how to proceed in these situations. I'll move the discussion to the talk section of the disputed page. Thank you for your advice and guidance. Lord Ruffy98 (talk) 16:55, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I saw that a user had added a topic about that edit, claiming it violated the original research policy. So, I looked into it and added a source from a site that uses the Tifinagh language. However, my edit was reversed, and when I asked for an explanation, no one told me what the problem was

P.S. Sorry if my English is not the best. Lord Ruffy98 (talk) 20:07, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Wondering if it Against Policy to Correct Spelling Mistakes on Archived Pages

Odd question and I am guessing the answer is no, but I am going to ask it anyway. If I spelt something incorrectly in a discussion on-wiki due to my youth and carelessness, is it considered appropriate years later to edit the page to correct the spelling--even if the material in question is now considered to be archived? Thebirdlover (talk) 19:52, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Archive pages are typically very low visibility, i.e. very few are likely to ever see it unless it becomes relevant again. In my opinion, it's for the better to leave the archive as it was, a snapshot of Wikipedia's discussion space at that given point in time. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 19:55, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

That's what I figured, but I am nervous since I am a recent changes patroller that a vandal might use my youthful mistakes to disparage me. Or if I would ever run for administrator (goodness forbid) which I doubt I'll do but never say never, the merciless voters would tear into edits that I made all those years ago and consider them on the same level as the edits I make today. So I ideally wanted to clean up my record so my edits in the 2020s would be emphasized and the early 2010s edits especially would be an afterthought. --Thebirdlover (talk) 19:57, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

If anything I think editing an archived page (especially just to fix something as minor as spelling mistakes) might draw more attention to you than letting archives stand for themselves, warts and all. People change, as do their opinions, and the editor you were then isn't necessarily indicative of the editor you are now. Anyone who can't see that probably isn't worth your time. Additionally, as George said, archives are intended to be snapshots; the whole principle of them being archives is that they're not subject to change. Happy editing! DonIago (talk) 20:05, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Did I do this AFD domoniation correctly?

Sorry I haven't been that active reacently, it looks like I mangled this AFD nomination - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Christine Warnke

Can anyone help? It is related to this page Christine Warnke. Bangabandhu (talk) 19:56, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Bangabandhu, It looks fine now, you didn't add it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 September 5, but a bot did it for you. TSventon (talk) 23:17, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

@Bangabandhu:, for future reference, WP:TWINKLE will do literally all of the steps for you. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 23:51, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I want to create a new wiki page on Cloud-Native. How do I start a new wiki page?

Cloud-Native CimaMeta (talk) 19:57, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I see you initially said "a certain topic that is important to my company" but then changed your post. It appears you have a WP:Conflict of interest, and would be deemed a WP:Paid editor. Creating an article is difficult, creating an article when you have a conflict of interest is doubly difficult, especially as you appear to have no experience of editing Wikipedia. - Arjayay (talk) 20:08, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

My earnest advice to new editors is to not even think about trying to create an article until you have spent several weeks - at least - learning about how Wikipedia works by making improvements to existing articles. Once you have understood core policies such as verifiability, neutral point of view, reliable, independent sources, and notability, and experienced how we handle disagreements with other editors (the Bold, Revert, Discuss cycle), then you might be ready to read your first article carefully, and try creating a draft. ColinFine (talk) 23:25, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

How to Add Paper Cutting as a Reference on Wikipedia

Hello, I need help adding a paper cutting as a reference on Wikipedia. Could someone please advise on the proper format for citing paper cuttings & how to add it, any additional details required, and how to ensure the reference meets Wikipedia's reliability standards? Thank you!(Ballal2003 (talk) 21:39, 5 September 2024 (UTC))

You cannot cite a paper cutting. However, if you have the necessary details of the source (publication, date, etc) then you can cite these. The cutting you have is irrelevant. See Citing sources. ColinFine (talk) 23:28, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

@Ballal2003: If its from a newspaper use {{Cite newspaper}}, or if it is from a magazine use {{Cite magazine}} etc. See WP:RS for info on reliable sources. RudolfRed (talk) 23:31, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

is this correct ?

Ballal2003 (talk) 07:04, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

References

Do you have a record of precisely what it's a cutting from? 126.33.84.129 (talk) 01:20, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Chinese paper cutting

Ballal2003, I thought that you were talking about something like this. Cullen328 (talk) 06:58, 6 September 2024 (UTC)