User talk:Izno/Archive 6

Wikiproject notification of the source review RfC

Thanks for doing that -- wish I'd thought of that myself. The 30-day close is still four days away, but if we're seeing steady input from the projects we might ask the closer to delay a little. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:44, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

@Mike Christie: Yeah, I left that note a week ago that we should do that but I didn't get around to it until today. 30 days isn't the required end date (per WP:RFC), it's just the standard end. --Izno (talk) 00:48, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

About your comment at Talk:Sabrina Carpenter discography

Hi there. Don't you think adding 11,000 bytes of markup (even if it is collapsed) to an already long discussion about something not directly related to improving the article whose talk page it is is a bit much? Don't you think it'd be better suited at the talk page for the Jennifer Lawrence awards and nominations article? Ss112 21:29, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

@Ss112: No, it is not a bit much. I am making a point with each of those tables that is relevant to the discussion because IJBall mentioned that page as a good example. I wanted to point out where it wasn't great how that other page was done because I'd like the SCD discussion to get us to a "better" place rather than just an "okay" place. It would be entirely out of context to propose that out of the blue at the talk page for the JLaw awards. Your suggestion would likely cause a WP:MULTI violation to boot. Bringing up the size of the change doesn't help your case here because it's mostly irrelevant. You can trivially see where the boxed content ends and begins in the wikitext, and it's not like you wouldn't get the point simply from reviewing the tables in full instead of presuming for some reason that I had decided to add 11k worth of prose... which would be entirely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. --Izno (talk) 22:29, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for reverting my mistake on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Esports. I honestly have no idea how I managed to delete other people's comments. I'll try harder to make sure that doesn't happen again. Derek M (talk) 02:17, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

@Derek M: It usually occurs when you start an edit based off an old version of the page. Why that doesn't trigger an edit conflict, we may never know. It's no biggie here. --Izno (talk) 04:53, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Character infobox

Hey, regarding the infobox. I was actually working on researching the topic even before the template was nominated so I've got some insight into the differences between the different character type infoboxes. To be honest, they all are about 90% the same. Even those that seem to be different are using the "free" parameters to add in the ones that miss from their infobox but are present in other ones (see Template:Infobox Buffyverse character), and when one infobox does not give the parameters that an editor needs, they just use a different one (see Barry Allen (Arrowverse) vs Flash (Barry Allen)) or just create an infobox that suits their needs (see Template:Infobox Tolkien character vs Template:Infobox Tolkien character (2)). To add to that, you have scenarios where a character can be both a video game character and from another media in the same article. Then after all this, you need to take into account maintenance and updates. Since there are so many different infoboxes, some wrappers of others, and some separate entities, they all require separate fixes. Also, parameters such as the video |motionactor= can be useful for other uses while other parameters could also be useful to video games. --Gonnym (talk) 11:12, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

@Gonnym: I'm not worried about what infobox VG character does that infobox character does not. I am worried about what infobox VG character does not that infobox character does. Basically, Template:Infobox character allows for a whole bunch of garbage WP:WAF-failing parameters. Our infoboxes should be succinct and they should be primarily about the out-of-universe aspects. Template:Infobox character fails on the second account which causes it to fail on the first. --Izno (talk) 16:29, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

I see what you mean, but I disagree with the method. First, how I read it, the MoS you linked does not really disallow in-universe material, especially when that material is verifiable with good sources. Second, I really believe that even if it did, the MoS is out-of-touch with what the community actually does as FA articles have in-universe elements in the infobox. So my point at that discussion was that even if you are right, deciding that a single infobox will not allow parameters that other infoboxes that deal with the same subjects (so not WP:OSE) is just wrong (even more so, when the infobox itself links to other video character infoboxes which all have in-universe information and even the example given in the documentation does so). --Gonnym (talk) 16:44, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

@Gonnym: Those other modules are distinctly a compromise between full-blown WAF-failing items and the current infobox--most characters don't have them at all, because they are presently so limited. No, it doesn't disallow material that is more fictional than not, but it actually does disallow an in universe treatment of that content. In this case, the character infobox puts inappropriate weight on concepts like "family" and "title" and... so on. These aren't concepts that a generalist encyclopedia needs or wants when discussing its characters in the detail reserved to a specific article. single infobox will not allow parameters that other infoboxes that deal with the same subjects (so not WP:OSE) is just wrong How so? You assert without reference to policy or guideline here. At best, this is a vague reference to WP:CONLEVEL? The level of consensus that a guideline like the MOS or a policy like WEIGHT enjoys is above and beyond that of a template specific to fictional characters--so it perturbs me that there is a defense of the current infobox character here. --Izno (talk) 17:19, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

What I meant was that all infobox character templates are of the same topic so I grouped them together into the same discussion, so this is not a case of WP:OSE where I say "But hey, Infobox medicine journal does this". And you are correct, I was referring to WP:LOCALCONSENSUS, which I think I linked to in the template discussion so probably felt it was needed here also. So if the original template and all other children templates of the same template allow "x" fields, yet one group of editors decide to create a new template of the same type to disallow those fields, for me that is a local consensus trying to add a backdoor exemption to the status-quo. Just to be clear, there are some in-universe fields which I think are pure trivia (which should not be added), some are mildly trivia (which I guess some people think have value), yet others I believe have actual value. To me family connections does give value as it lets the reader understand how characters from the same story are connected. Yes, it can also be done in prose, but that logic is valid for everything in an infobox (and if I'm not mistaken is pretty much a given that an infobox should not have any information not present in the article). --Gonnym (talk) 18:31, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

@Gonnym: Their creation dates are separated by mere days, over a decade ago. Characterizing it as yet one group of editors decide to create a new template of the same type to disallow those fields is laughably off the mark. --Izno (talk) 18:41, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

ArbCom 2018 election voter message

Hello, Izno. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Games with "computer game" disambiguation

Hey Izno, I'm not sure if these articles are at the correct pages, as I know WP:NCVGDAB says not to use "computer game", but I'm not sure which name is correct. If you have time, take a look at these: Star Trek: 25th Anniversary (computer game), Kingmaker (computer game), The Punisher (1990 computer game), Friday the 13th (1985 computer game) and Micromanía (computer game magazine) if relevant. Thanks! --Gonnym (talk) 14:41, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

@Gonnym: "computer game" typically isn't necessary not least because "video" includes the same kinds of output most computers would provide (some exceptions to that general rule exist in the early history of video games). There are some exceptions when it comes to disambiguation and NCVG goes into a few of them.

1. Star Trek: 25th Anniversary (computer game): This is disambiguated the way it is because WP:NCVG allows for "platform game" when there are multiple games in the same year. See Star Trek: 25th Anniversary. This seems fine.  Done
2. There is a similar story with The Punisher (1990 computer game) and The Punisher (1990 video game), which we should tweak. The Punisher (1990 video game) should probably be moved to The Punisher (1990 NES video game) (NCVG) and then The Punisher (1990 video game) redirected to Punisher video games as ambiguous (WP:DABTOPIC).  Done
3. Kingmaker (computer game) could just be moved per NCVG to Kingmaker (video game).  Done
4. Micromanía (computer game magazine): I would remove the disambiguation entirely as there is nothing at Micromanía, possibly with a prominent WP:HATNOTE to Micromania. (I'd also create a redirect at Micromanía (magazine).)  Done
5. Friday the 13th is unfortunately a bit more involved because it looks like Bignole redirected the target page which has history, in 2015, and then it was later recreated by an IP at AFC with subsequent promotion to mainspace by Surv1v4l1st. I don't think I agree with Bignole's original redirect there, but either way, I think what could be done would be to move the "1985 computer game" disambiguated article over the "1985 video game" title, restore the deleted revisions (as they are not parallel histories), and then decide to redirect again if desired. @Anthony Appleyard: Should/Could you do that?  Done

--Izno (talk) 15:40, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

The F13 game page, even as it was apparently recreated, still does not really meet the GNG. That requires significant coverage, which it doesn't have. It actually consists of the IP's personal interpretation of the game, sourced (that's original research) to the most basic of their statements, followed with a few basic number reviews and nothing else to say about it. Even one of the reviews isn't even sourced, and the other goes to a page that doesn't exist. Even if you want to say that it does, there's barely enough information to support a page when it can all be included on the franchise page. That was the reason it was redirected back then and the reason it should really be redirected now.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 17:41, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

@Bignole: Yeah, I'm not real hard over either way--just letting you know since you were reverted at a different page. I would just recommend making sure what references we do have make their way into the redirect target. --Izno (talk) 18:43, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

@Izno: Pages 1985 computer game and 1985 video game do not exist. Please what are the full names of the pages that you are referring to? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 17:46, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

@Anthony Appleyard: Merge Friday_the_13th_(1985_computer_game) into Friday_the_13th_(1985_video_game) and restore all revisions. --Izno (talk) 18:41, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

@Izno:  Done Anthony Appleyard (talk) 23:24, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

@Gonnym: I've made all the moves. Probably the things left to do are to:

1. Sort out all the links to The Punisher (1990 video game) as being either for the NES page or for the computer game page (I wish I could run the disambig assist tool against arbitrary pages)
2. Decide what to do with Friday the 13th (1985 video game).

--Izno (talk) 20:10, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

November 2018

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at AirAttack 2. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been or will be reverted.

• If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, please discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek consensus with them. Alternatively, you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant notice boards.
• If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, please seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive. Continual disruptive editing may result in loss of editing privileges. You have reverted a newly created through AfC/updated article citing AfD which had the Keep result, not the Delete one for your information. Please do not do it again, or at least give me a good reason for what you have done. Jovanmilic97 (talk) 11:06, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

@Jovanmilic97: Be careful templating the regulars, especially when you use an astonishing level 2 disruption template for what is really just a difference of opinion. (Especially when you caveat it with "explain to me what's going on".)

A keep result at AFD does not mean we keep the article and the entirety by necessity--it only means it's not deleted. We can still apply normal editing policies and guidelines to help us decide whether we should have that article or whether it should be covered as part of another. In this specific case, at least one user !voted to delete entirely, and I was swayed by the argument he put forth later even though I did not update my "keep" !vote. The sources used in this case are weak even if they are considered reliable. As czar noted, there is reasonable scope in the article on the first game to capture some of the discussion related to the second game. Of the sources used in the article accepted at AFC, only 2 or so were worth keeping at best. So overall, a continued redirect/merge to that article makes sense. --Izno (talk) 17:11, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

Sorry for that, now that I read all, I will use templates more carefully. While I agree with some of your points, per WP:BARE, bare notability does exist, even you admitted only 2 were worth keeping minimally as well. Again sorry for using the template! Jovanmilic97 (talk) 17:30, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

@Jovanmilic97: As before, just because a topic displays notability does not mean it cannot be covered, or better covered, as a topic in a separate article. This is especially true in WP:BARE cases and when we have a trivial merge target. --Izno (talk) 17:42, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

Tracking categories

The Category:VIAF different on Wikidata is of great help. Can you create the same tracking categories for GND?

• Category:Pages with GND identifiers
  • Category:GND different on Wikidata
  • Category:GND not on Wikidata

Thanks in advance --Light Yagami (talk) 22:29, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

@Light Yagami: You need to make that request at Template talk:Authority control. --Izno (talk) 17:32, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Bit goings

Also, when are you going up for the bit, @Izno? czar 16:16, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

Whenever I feel like the concern voiced at my 2016 ORCP are far enough in the rear-view mirror. --Izno (talk) 16:32, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

Also, are you volunteering to nominate? :) --Izno (talk) 16:33, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

2.5 years? Nigh time for another ORCP at least! There are some pretty rich comments in that 2016 discussion... Also ha, doubt that I'd bring much clout to a nomination as I avoid the behavioral boards. czar 17:52, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

@Czar: I didn't just mean "time" (indeed, 2.5 years is a bit of time) but also "effort" in the mirror. The question about nominating was not quite facetious--it would be nice to have someone look at what I've done since the ORCP then to see if the same concerns would be dragged out. --Izno (talk) 00:01, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

re:bunny senpai edit

Hi Izno, I'm sorry that you were completely incapable of reading the (admittedly very small) typo correction I made in the Bunny Girl Senpai article. You see, the summary of episode 10 says that Nodoka moves in with Sakuta. This is incorrect, as she moves in with her older sister Mai.

I probably should have specified that in the edit comment, but I'm also going to be an ass about how you didn't spot a change that was actually there. I'm also going to put my edit back in with a comment so other editors with poor reading skills can actually spot the change. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.56.216.29 (talk) 01:04, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Seems you're right. You need to assume good faith rather than call me names or insult me though. --Izno (talk) 01:09, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Companies

Hi, the A7 template lists companies seperate from organisations, and there are also different wiki projects for companies (mainly for profit) and organisations (mainly not for profit) so there is a distinction, regards Atlantic306 (talk) 19:33, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

@Atlantic306: I'll respond to the substance of this comment at WT:CSD#Companies explicitly called out in A7 (in a minute). The short comment I wanted to leave on my user talk page is that, while there is some scope for bold editing of PAG, you should restrict yourself to starting a discussion when your bold edit is reverted. --Izno (talk) 21:55, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Seasons cheer

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2019!

Hello Izno, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you a heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2019. Happy editing, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:12, 24 December 2018 (UTC) Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.

Advisor

Hey, not sure if you knew it but Advisor works again (not every time somehow sadly). I changed the name from "Cameltrader" to "Ebrahames" in the control panel, as the page was moved a month ago. Just checked it today and saw it working again. Kante4 (talk) 15:11, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2019!

Hello Izno, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you a heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2019. Happy editing, Jalen D. Folf (talk) 20:28, 24 December 2018 (UTC) Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.

Merry Christmas!

Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas2}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

FFS

Merry Christmas! ;) Although per this, I'm right out of Christmas spirit right now! --woodensuperman 10:23, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

Update to scripts by AlexTheWhovian/Alex 21

Hello! This is a generic message created and copied to all editors using scripts that I have created. As I have recently changed my username from "User:AlexTheWhovian" to "User:Alex 21", any scripts that I have created that are listed at your common.js page may, at the moment, no longer be working. To fix this, simply update all occurrences of "User:AlexTheWhovian" to "User:Alex 21"; see here for an example. All the best! -- /Alex/₂₁ 11:05, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

ARC

Seriously, what have you got against this historic game? Did you ever play it? Understand it? What's with your stupid suggestions? Govvy (talk) 18:28, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

@Govvy: Please don't employ ad hominem. Please continue to discuss civilly at Talk:Attack Retrieve Capture#Merge discussion. --Izno (talk) 18:32, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Really, you haven't put any thought into what you're doing have you. Even your reply is all defensive and no essence of what's on that article. Govvy (talk) 18:38, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

@Govvy: I have put plenty of thought into what I'm doing. I've assessed the article against our policies and guidelines and found it wanting. I've suggested a merge as an alternative to deletion. Now, please respect our policy on civility and return to the discussion in question. --Izno (talk) 18:41, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

This conversation is becoming split up, Civility, pfft, an analogy if you can't take a punch get out of the ring. Can continue this at the ARC talk page. Govvy (talk) 18:48, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

@Govvy: It's a policy. You shouldn't be throwing punches to begin with. --Izno (talk) 18:50, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

I often say that Wikipedia was built by the weak!! Govvy (talk) 18:52, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Technical Barnstar
	Thanks for cleaning up references on Nobody's Friends page. Much appreciated. Joelionheart (talk) 20:19, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

citation or cite book?

Dear Izno, you corrected some referencelinks on Gabriele Evertz - i was astonished to see that all the books i named at the section "Further reading" now start with "citation" instead of "cite book". Could you be so kind to explain me the difference and whether it is in general better to use "citation" in the beginning of the reference or "cite book"? Kind regards, --Gyanda (talk) 01:18, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

@Gyanda: Template:Citation and Template:Cite book use the same engine. They differ slightly in styling and functionality. See Help:CS2#Style. It looks like that page uses a blend of CS1 and CS2, so perhaps you could also consider cleaning the page up to use only one kind of citation style. --Izno (talk) 01:23, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your answer. Will have a look at the link and try to make it better. Please be patient, i will be able to work on it mid february. Thanks again! --Gyanda (talk) 10:34, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

@Gyanda: One of the differences of functionality Izno alluded to is that the {cite xxx} family automatically adds a final period; some editors consider that a feature. Inversely, if want add some information the the citation, such as calls for a comma, you have to add a parameter to suppress the auto-period. Also, if you use some form of the {{harv}} template for a short cite (a good idea, in my opinion) it will connect automagically to a full citation created with {citation}, whereas with the {cite xxx} templates you have to add the |ref=harv parameter. ♦ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 22:14, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

I must confess, for me this sounds quite difficult but i bookmarked it and will try to understand. Thank you and kind regards, --Gyanda (talk) 01:02, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

ill

Why do you remove working interlanguage links? They help readers. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:17, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

I was confused by IznoRepeat, sorry. Please self revert where you removed the interlanguage links that work. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:21, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: They are not allowed in multiple parameters of CS1/2 templates. I have no objection to them generally and you will see that I did not remove any instance outside of the templates. --Izno (talk) 17:23, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Always learning, and why? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:25, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: They introduce bad metadata in the fields of interest--mostly the emitting of the little link for the [other wiki] text. --Izno (talk) 17:41, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

But can we do something other than create the missing articles? To know that an author is notable in a different language helps, especially if I can read that language. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:44, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: You can put the other language link outside the template if the author doesn't exist here. Alternatively, you might consider commenting it out outside the template if you don't want a separate display of author text. --Izno (talk) 18:01, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

I don't think I got it yet. We talk about the author in a ref, no? You mean, I should mention the author in the body? How would a hidden coment help the reader? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:08, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: Something like <ref><!-- [[:de:author article]]-->{{cite...</ref>. --Izno (talk) 18:25, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

How would a reader see that? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:38, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: They wouldn't. You could do something like <ref>[[:de:author article]]: {{cite...</ref> I guess. --Izno (talk) 18:58, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

I'd still use ill, not a direct link to another language, and find it somewhat not elegant ;) - thanks anyway. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:03, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: Yeah, I also don't think any of the workarounds are that elegant. YOU COULD ALWAYS WRITE THE ARTICLE THOUGH! :D --Izno (talk) 19:07, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

No need to shout something I wrote above. Problem: how would I even know something got lost. I reached 42000 on my watch list, but of those you changed only three. LouisAlain is the greatest red-link filler I know. I do only one a day, today a Mendelssohn composition on the composer's birthday ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:14, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

As far as I'm concerned, I change the {{interlanguage link|xxx|fr}} into {{ill|xxx|de}} when I have no plan to translate the article (see Occam's razor principle) or simply delete any form of redirect template when I know I'll translate the article in the near future, such as Leandra Overmann z.b. I never use Leandra Overmann since there's no way to notice at first sight the article needs to be translated. LouisAlain (talk) 20:28, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

About America's Army

Actually, this article should be considered to be of mid-importance and be vital at level 5, because it has sparked many studies, which is uncommon in video games.--RekishiEJ (talk) 09:00, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

@RekishiEJ: Studies are not sufficient to show that an article topic is important. See WP:VG/A#Importance scale. In this case, I'd suggest that if none of the projects on the talk page can show this to be even a mid-level article, it should not be included in the Level 5 list. --Izno (talk) 13:27, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

Accessibility discussion

Hey, you probably don't want to enter this discussion, but I'd appreciate if you could add details to it regarding rowspans usage and if it is an issue or not. It would help a lot in solving our issue. --Gonnym (talk) 16:42, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

@Gonnym: Which discussion? (You didn't link to it! ) --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:10, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

@Gonnym and IJBall: He pinged me earlier this week. I just didn't want to get in the middle of it during the week. RexxS can help too, though I see he's been in the batch of related discussions too. --Izno (talk) 17:20, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

Use of "|author=" parameter

Hi. I see you have been putting untemplated "authors" into templates. With which I concur, except for using the |author= template. I think we really should be using |first= and |last=. Are you okay with that? ♦ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 21:53, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

@J. Johnson: Indeed, by order of preference in CS1/2:

1. First_n/last_n
2. Author_n
3. Author with multiple people in the one parameter (Category:CS1 maint: Multiple names: authors list)
4. Authors (Category:CS1 maint: Uses authors parameter)
5. Coauthor(s) (Category:Pages with citations using unsupported parameters).

It's a lot of effort to change things to use first/last when I'm working on a tangential problem (Category:CS1 maint: Explicit use of et al.). Author is easier to drop into templates for some other gnome to 'upgrade' to use first/last as appropriate i.e. my regex skills are not strong enough to change to use first/last generally and I would prefer not to slow down on the above-linked problem. Usually when you do see a change, it hits either #3 or #4, but in either #3 or #4 the issue is that the separators between people's names are not consistent or overlap (i.e. commas to separate people and commas to separate first/last). --Izno (talk) 22:43, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

It looks like Ttm is also working on the same category, perhaps because I started working on it. ;) --Izno (talk) 22:48, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

So you're okay with last/first, just not trying to be perfect all at once. I sort of wish we had an "authorx" (literal 'x', not as a digit) for flagging this kind of junk. Some day. Incidentally, aren't|coauthors=, |authors=, and |author= with multiple cases all deprecated? Like we should be not using them?

BTW, I could perhaps work out a first/last regex for you. Interested? ♦ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 23:18, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

@J. Johnson: Yes, all of those are deprecated; that's why I linked the categories they would show up in. :D

I have a simple find replace, which right now is simply find in templates .;  and replace with . |author=, which was the best easy find/replace I could see (as semicolon is fairly consistently a person separator). A more complicated one would act on |author and |authors specifically; sometimes the issue is in |last instead (and that last just makes me sad). --Izno (talk) 23:24, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Ah, yes, I'd be interested in an actual regex for the issue, just in case that wasn't clear. --Izno (talk) 23:26, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Okay. So the situation is that I am familiar with regex's, just not so much on Wikipedia. Is the context for this in a script? If so, perhaps you could explain to me how to use a script. ♦ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 23:34, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

@J. Johnson: I'm using stock WP:AWB for the work I'm using, which uses .NET's flavor of regex. (See docs for regex; see the specific part of AWB at those docs.) --Izno (talk) 01:24, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, but I thought you were working on that category because I was; or, perhaps it's just a case of great minds thinking alike because we both noted some other conversation elsewhere.

Extracting multiple human names from a single |lastn= / |authorn= / |editorn= ... (there are more) is not a task for the faint of heart; if a human name can be made that doesn't fit the various 'patterns' of human names that a programmer knows about, someone has probably already done it. There are obvious patterns like |author= assigned a value that is syntactically correct Vancouver format; easy fix: change |author= to |vauthors=. What about that same example using the same human names except that the name separators are semicolons? And if both semicolons and commas? And there is the common case where the first human name listed is in last/first order and all other names are listed in first/last order. Spend some time looking at the name parameters in Category:CS1 maint: Multiple names: authors list and you will see why it remains so large. I wrote a series of six or eight bot tasks (when I really didn't know squat about regex) that converted most of the now obsolete |coauthor(s)= parameters to |authorn=. I don't remember how many months it took me to do that and in the end how many weeks it took me to clear the last however-many-articles manually.

I'm not trying to discourage an automated fix, just trying to insert a little sense of reality.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 01:05, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

@Trappist the monk: When I started my recent work on et al, it was at about 5200 pages. The conversation at User talk:Citation bot came around exactly because I had started my work a week or two ago; see the diff in the initial task report? That was IznoRepeat finally getting noticed.

Oh yes, I am definitely certain it's Herculean to work on either the authors or multiple in author categories. It's the kind of thing you'd need to do multiple passes on with a single regex each time just because of how many different formats that there are and the fact you don't want for whatever tool you're using (semi or fully automatic) to hit false positives on every page. --Izno (talk) 01:24, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

I was hoping you were using something other than AWB, which I don't run. Dang.

I could wish for more stringent checking of author parameters at initial entry, but that runs into a couple of questions. E.g., to what extent are the various author problems historical, versus on-going original mis-entry? Which is what brought me here: I didn't realize that Izno's use of 'author=' is a partial fix. Which would be stymied if we had strict checking.

One idea that's been percolating in a back corner of my mind: how about a |badauthorN= parameter? Even if it was no more than an alias to 'authorN' it would still be useful in indicating, in the wikitext, a questionable usage, identified as such by a human editor, and not necessarily matching any of the existing maintenance categories.

A point of curiosity: where do we have human surnames using semi-colons as separators? ♦ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 21:53, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

{{[ping|J. Johnson}} Yes, I was pretty sure you had said some-when you don't use AWB. I assume you don't have a compatible operating system?

A point of curiosity I'm not sure I understand this question. But I have literally seen this form: |first=First1, First2, First3 |last=Last1, Last2, Last3; and occasionally the same with semicolons; and then there's the |author=First, Last Initial.; First2, Last Initial2.;--which is relatively sane but still causes one of the maintenance categories; and then there's the same with |authors=; and then there's the same without semicolons, as in |author=First, Last Initial., First2, Last Initial2.,--at which point we have entered the impossible; sometimes it's |first=First |last=Last |last2=First2, Last Initial2.; First3, Last Initial3.;... People are crazy. There are others out there that just make me shake my head. As I said, I'm happy with just |author=Last, First MI. or even |author=First MI. Last, which I suspect is much easier to separate into |first=First MI. and |last=Last...

That's aside from the corporate authors with internal-to-the-name comma separation, as in The Industry of This, That, and The Other; which are legitimate but which we don't have a good solution for at this time. Some discussions on that one on Help talk:CS1 I've even opposed the solution for. (To wit, the double round brackets to indicate a corporate author, as can be used today with |vauthors=.)

I don't think adding a BadAuthor parameter is going to help.

As for the problem, I think it's mostly historical. (I admit I personally struggle with Asian names, which can be ambiguous depending on where the person grew up--in Asia, Family Given is normal convention; elsewhere, Given Family.) The backlogs associated with the above craziness decrease slowly year-over-year. I think the various templatedata editors help/will help (since they're now integrating a similar functionality into the 2010 WTE that has been in the VE/2017 WTE, even if you didn't have reFill enabled, which was gadget-only).

Strict checking? That's a golden egg. There was a nice little blog article I read a few years ago about assumptions you can make as a developer being garbage. Not everyone has an address. Not every country has postal codes. Not everyone has a family name. And so on. Same applies here. --Izno (talk) 03:43, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

I should have been clearer. I didn't mean the various creative ways editors use semi-colons (and that parallel "F1, F2, F3/L1, L2, L3" is a beauty), but rather: are there instances of real human names that use semi-colons? It seems to me that should be a flag.

Chinese names are not rough: usually the surname is one syllable, and personal names are two. So when in my collection of articles with Chinese authors I find an article that seems to be other way I start looking for those authors' webapges. And sure enough, there was an editorial irregularity!

Why do you think 'badauthor=' wouldn't help? Just as a flag (functionally equivalent to an embedded comment?) it says (right in the wikitext) "here's a problem that needs attention", and even "don't use this as a model!" And it would even say "this experienced editor isn't really screwing up". ♦ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 22:08, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

(←) @J. Johnson: are there instances of real human names that use semi-colons Not that I'm aware of. The module today looks for more than one comma or semicolon. Are you suggesting that the module look for more than one comma and more than 0 semicolons? I wouldn't oppose that if you brought it up at Help talk:CS1. (The function in Module:Citation/CS1 is name_has_mult_names.) Have to dash. Will answer the rest later. --Izno (talk) 23:44, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

As for badauthor, we could do that with everything. I think it would be better instead to get as many maintenance messages to being error messages instead (where it makes sense--things like the "ignore isbn" maintenance message is correctly IMO a maintenance message), so that everyone knows that something may have been done wrong, rather than only those few of us who have turned maintenance messages on. --Izno (talk) 14:28, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

I agree that maintenance messages are insufficiently visible. (And perhaps not strict enough.) But: the problem I see with error messages is where the errors are already in, so the message goes not to whomever was originally responsible for them, but to every editor that edits an article/section. Who (like yourself) might be doing one kind of edit, and don't want to be stuck having to fix everything else that's wrong in a given article or section. (I am thinking in terms of edit-time messages. Alternately, we turn on displayed error messages, and all of sudden we have tens of thousands of red blotches.) With something like "badauthor=" one can identify a problem without being forced to fix it. And others can see the problem without checking the maintenance category, or even having to edit. Yes, we could do that with lots of parameters, though I wouldn't bother except for the most pervasive errors. Implementing "badauthor=" could even be a test of the concept. ♦ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 21:33, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

Example text is predicated on |author= needing fixing. It is not preferred, but it's also not deprecated like all the others; it's also such a low priority relative to everything else that yet needs fixing.

the problem I see with error messages is where the errors are already in If that's the problem (without judgement on whether it is), |badauthor= doesn't fix it. This one is fixed by a reader becoming an editor and trying to fix the problem, which should already be displayed (as you agree), or by a gnome trying to take care of the issues he knows or wants to fix. Introducing another parameter doesn't help the end goal, which is fundamentally fewer parameters... Something like |badauthor= might be helpful for the casual editor who doesn't know what to do with something, but I'm distinctly not one of them. Being able to surface |author= as sub-optimal should probably be in the documentation... That said, it's currently the documented preferred use for corporate authors. I wonder if we might need something like a |org-authorn= for that case. --Izno (talk) 02:07, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Remaining in the category

@Trappist the monk: It looks like we need display-interviewers and display-translators in the module for the remaining few in the category. --Izno (talk) 01:16, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

I also saw another pattern that might be worth searching for, which is et alia. A Special:Search didn't see a whole lot of these in the context of templates but they were out there. --Izno (talk) 03:38, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Trickshot info

Moved to User talk:WalkinAlmanac#Trickshot info.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  03:45, 22 February 2019 (UTC)}}

Help

Hey, Could you help me add content to the 2032 Summer Olympics page? Yellow alligator (talk) 04:34, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

@Yellow alligator: Hello, I'm not interested in Olympics articles. Have you tried WT:OLYMPICS? --Izno (talk) 16:20, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Removing Cquote

What did you mean by saying "Cquote is for pulls and this is not a pull"? I did not get what did you mean by "Pull"?Justlookingforthemoment (talk) 11:21, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

@Justlookingforthemoment: "Pull" is short for pull quote, and {{cquote}} is for use only with pull quotes. --Izno (talk) 15:50, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Oh, I got it Justlookingforthemoment (talk) 17:11, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Sabana Grande

Hey. The Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabana_Grande,_Caracas has been vandalised by Jamez42. 100,000 characters have been deleted and several quotes/sources from relevant authors and academicians.

Please, I kindly ask you to review the article.

--QuinteroP (talk) 09:38, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

@QuinteroP: That does not look like vandalism, which is what happens when someone removes it for no reason or no good reason. Jamez42 removed the content because he thinks it is very promotional, which is a good reason to remove content on Wikipedia. Maybe he can comment further. --Izno (talk) 15:53, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

@QuinteroP: I would like that for the next time you ping me. @Izno: I removed the content per WP:NPOV and WP:BLOWITUP, and the same decision that was taken in the Spanish Wikipedia. There's currently a peer review opened by Quintero in the issue. I apologize if the edit was too drastic, but the article needs improvement. --Jamez42 (talk) 15:57, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

WikiProject Apple Inc.

Hello Izno,

You've been identified either as a previous member of the project, an active editor on Apple related pages, a bearer of Apple related userboxes, or just a hoopy frood.

WikiProject Apple Inc. has unexpectedly quit, because an error type "unknown" occured. Editors must restart it! If you are interested, read the project page and sign up as a member. There's something for everyone to do, such as welcoming, sourcing, writing, copy editing, gnoming, proofreading, or feedback — but no pressure. Do what you do, but let's coordinate and stay in touch.

See the full welcome message on the talk page, or join the new IRC channel on irc.freenode.net named #wikipedia-en-appleinc ^connect. Please join, speak, and idle, and someone will read and reply.

Please spread the word, and join or unsubscribe at the subscription page.

RhinosF1^(chat)_{(status)(contribs)} and Smuckola on behalf of WikiProject Apple Inc. - Delivered 15:00, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Mar 2019: I had to undo your recent edits--Sorry

Hi, Izno. I have just edited the article Pseudopodia from beginning to end, and, encountering an "edit conflict" with your recent work, I opted to wipe it out so as not to make things worse by editing around your edit. Would you mind making your edits again? Many thanks if you are able. --Quisqualis (talk) 17:34, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Um... why?

Why did you remove all the tournament results from Super Smash Bros. in esports? What kind of citation do you really want, because as far as I know all of those lists have citations to the organizations that make these results. WikiBrainHead (talk) 22:14, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

@WikiBrainHead: The content does not pass our WP:RS test so it doesn't have the correct WP:WEIGHT. To boot, it's out of date or incorrect, as your edit attempted to fix. We shouldn't be putting that information there. --Izno (talk) 22:25, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

I don't understand, how is a post straight from the organization's mouth considered unreliable? WikiBrainHead (talk) 22:41, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

There's more to "reliability" in this context; we also need for the information to be independent to be worth including (per WP:WEIGHT). --Izno (talk) 22:42, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

I don't know if this counts as a personal attack or something, but that's kinda bullshit. I guess I have no choice then. WikiBrainHead (talk) 23:10, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

@WikiBrainHead: It's how Wikipedia works. If you're that invested in the topic, I'm sure one or another of the Fandom/Gamepedia wikis or possibly Liquipedia may be interested in contributions related to player rankings. You can write to your heart's content there. --Izno (talk) 23:25, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

That's kinda why I think it's bullshit. I do massive amounts of work on tournament and competitive Smash Bros. on the Smash Bros. Wiki, and there is no opposition to my work because the community is literally the source for Smash Bros, and so they know whether my edits are full of crap or not. I don't feel like Wikipedia is the same. As I said, I can't change Wikipedia's policies so I'll just step down. WikiBrainHead (talk) 23:28, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

@WikiBrainHead: Sure, but it's not a question of whether your edits are full of crap (I haven't judged the quality of your edits). The dimension along which I care is not "it's true/false" (which is WP:V and some of WP:NOT) but rather "it's (not) relevant to a general encyclopedia", which is what some other parts of WP:NOT and WP:N (for articles) and WP:WEIGHT (for article content) indicate are needed.

On an aside, you can have a shorter signature code with: [[User:WikiBrainHead|<span style="font-family: Calibri; color: red;">WikiBrainHead</span>]] [[User talk:WikiBrainHead|(talk)]]. --Izno (talk) 23:38, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

24 articles

Hi there, hope you're doing well. I just wanted to let you know that I've undone the redirect of a few articles of characters noted in the television show - most of them I do agree with, but the ones that I undid I actually do possess many references that do assert independent notability (but I do realise that there's way too much plot, and they need to be rewritten and trimmed.)

I will work on these in the coming weeks as I need to dig up my info, but wanted to drop you a note and let you know. Thanks for your efforts, have a good day. Steven Crossin 13:22, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

@Steven Crossin: Please consider instead expanding the list of characters and undoing your reverts. I would rather see one quality list article than several articles which even now fail our policies and guidelines regarding plot and writing about fiction. The entire set has seen no improvement since they were created a decade ago. I have little doubt that some of them can meet our PAGs but the way to do it is to WP:SPLIT sections which become too large from the list, or to consider drafting each article as its worked on. For the moment I'll leave it be, but if I see little improvement I'll walk them to AFD. --Izno (talk) 13:36, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

As for which were selected, the ones with overly long plots and underly-long creation/reception information were the ones merged into the list. Those with good balance were left alone of course, while those with no information of the sort were simply redirected without merging. --Izno (talk) 13:41, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

I’ll need to take a look, the problem is that no content was merged at all apart from their names. There used to be a list that actually contained brief character info for minor characters but it seems to have disappeared so, will have to hunt it down a Agree some articles should probably be merged, but not all the content in them should be disposed of like it has - even if the target article has only a few sentences about the characters impact on the program. Steven Crossin 06:20, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

@Steven Crossin: Have you had a chance? It's been 3 or 4 weeks now and you haven't edited in 2 or 3. That indicates to me that these aren't anywhere on your priorities list.

even if the target article has only a few sentences about the characters impact on the program No, we cover material in proportion to its availability in reliable, independent sources, and article topics where there are multiple, independent, reliable sources discussing the topic in depth. If readers are interested in character impact, they have the many lists of episodes available to them, where major characters will clearly have their impact indicated in the summaries and minor characters will, appropriately, not be listed. The merges I performed kept material which had obvious sourcing and removed material which did not. Since you are not present, I intend to reinsert my edits that you reverted within the next week. If you wish to build from there, that is your prerogative, and in fact it's my recommendation, as it will allow the articles to conform with policy without needless (and clear) cruft. --Izno (talk) 22:55, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

Go ahead and do that, might as well. It’s been ten years or so and I guess Wikipedia is going the way of having less and less articles as people think it shouldn’t contain any information about except about boring plants and French villages. I don’t care anymore. Steven Crossin 23:20, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

Please leave Chloe O’Brian and Tony Almeida though. You may not be interested and the articles need a rewrite, but a quick Google search shows they are covered in multiple reliable sources. They appear in the most episodes apart from the main character. You’re right, I don’t have the time to work on them but someone will and I’ll post my list of sources on the talk pages. Steven Crossin 23:35, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

And David Palmer (24 character) does assert notability already. It’s at the bottom of the article. Steven Crossin 23:39, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

Template:TRS-80 and Tandy computers

Hi there,

I posted a brief comment discussing your changes to this template at Template_talk:TRS-80_and_Tandy_computers, and would appreciate your feedback if you have the time.

Thank you!

Ubcule (talk) 22:29, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

MOS lists

Before you go ahead and make major changes to MOS relating to lists, I think it would be courteous (and indeed proper) to inform some of the major stakeholders, e.g. the WP:FLC community. After all, their community members may have some objections to your modifications. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:04, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

@The Rambling Man: I am performing the merge that was suggested and closed quite some time ago. I am skeptical that anyone will have issue with it, but if they do, the issues they have will have been there for some time as the information will have been living on WP:Manual of Style/Embedded lists... --Izno (talk) 20:08, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

I'm sorry. I must have missed the notification to the FLC project, I have been busy and travelling quite a bit. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:12, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

@The Rambling Man: I doubt FLC was notified--your instinct was probably in the right spot. *g* I have no issue with someone leaving a note there, but I'm not intending to make changes to policy or guideline, just moving stuff around. --Izno (talk) 20:15, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

No worries, sorry to have bothered you. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:23, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

AWB wikilinks

Hi Izno, re: this response, thank you, and my follow up question is: how do I initiate this functionality in AWB? I used AWB in a very simple capacity a few years back. I'm no good with setting up RegEx stuff, on account of not being a programming type. Is this something that is easy to set up? Can I just import a tool, or do I have to be a whiz in order to get this ball rolling? Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 05:54, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: None of the above. In stock AWB there is the Alerts box under the Start tab in the middle group of the default installation. If a page has duplicate wikilinks, an alert will display there and allow you to work on removing them. (See also Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/User manual#Start.) --Izno (talk) 11:22, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Sorry!

Sorry for the undoing I made for the Arms (video game), it was by an accident! Jovanmilic97 (talk) 17:48, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Small/styles.css

Template:Small/styles.css has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. DannyS712 (talk) 20:37, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia talk:Requests for adminship/Optional RfA candidate poll#Shut this down?

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_adminship/Optional_RfA_candidate_poll#Shut this down?. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:38, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Bobby Kotick

I caution you against vandalising the Bobby Kotick page by deleting a legitimate category. I am reversing your reversal. If you don't like this category, you should complain to Wikipedia and advocate that it be deleted across-the-board. You don't have anything against Jews, do you?

References

@Betathetapi545: I have in fact just deleted it from the list as the reference, as Lordtobi points out, verifies only (and only obliquely!) that his daughter is Jewish. Spong.com is not an obviously reliable source, so I don't see that as credible. Anyway, you at-least attempted to remedy the reason for my reversion, which was that a category cannot be added unless it is verified in the article (WP:CATV). --Izno (talk) 13:55, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

IznoRepeat flub

This edit.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 21:26, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

​ Yeah, I'm doing edits like that one mostly by hand. Good catch. --Izno (talk) 21:33, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

MOS discretionary sanctions alert

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have shown interest in the English Wikipedia Manual of Style and article titles policy. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.

NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 01:25, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

Yup. --Izno (talk) 01:39, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

Sources needed for Days of the Year pages

I see you recently accepted a pending change to August 7 that did not include a direct source.

You're probably not aware of this change, but Days of the Year pages are no longer exempt from WP:V and direct sources are required for additions. For details see the content guideline and the WikiProject Days of the Year style guide. I've gone ahead and un-accepted this edit and backed it out.

All the pages in the Days of the Year project have had pending changes protection turned on to prevent vandalism and further addition of entries without direct sources. As a pending changes patroller, please do not accept additions to day of year pages where no direct source has been provided on that day of year page. The burden to provide sources for additions to these pages is on the editor who adds or restores material to these pages. Thank you. Toddst1 (talk) 15:00, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

That's fine. --Izno (talk) 15:02, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Pledge

I hereby pledge that if you become an admin I'll stop or reduce severely use of that tiresome pun. I mean, unless you want me to keep going of course. [1] EEng 18:49, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

The inimitable EEng, there izno-one who deserves more to pun off this name, for he came first among the many who followed. --Izno (talk) 04:10, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

What can I say, I'm a trendsetter. EEng 04:18, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Your request for adminship

Hi Izno, I have closed your request for adminship as successful. Congratulations for both your successful nomination and for your place on WP:RFX100 - impressive! As always, the administrators' reading list is worth reading and the new admin help pages are most certainly available if you feel that you might require some practice with the tools in a safe environment prior to applying them elsewhere on the project. Good luck! Acalamari 15:00, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Successful RfA

• Congratulations for adminship !! CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 15:11, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Congrats..The admins' T-shirt for you. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 15:11, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

• Congrats - please insert the least annoying pun variation you can think of here! Nosebagbear (talk) 15:16, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
• Congratulations! Double sharp (talk) 15:16, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
• Well done, and do well! LessHeard vanU (talk) 15:19, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
• Condolences – that was really some RfA! Paine Ellsworth, ed. ^put'r there  16:00, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
• Felicitations and welcome to the team. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:55, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
• It's all downhill from here, of course. EEng 21:30, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Welcome to the admin corps.CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 15:11, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Congrats! :) Welcome to the admin-hood. BOZ (talk) 23:26, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

• Gah sorry had no idea your RFA had closed - A belated congratulations :). –Dave | Davey2010^Talk 00:02, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

• I'm late to the party as well but at least you have the mop and pail to clean up after us. Congrats. MarnetteD|Talk 09:24, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

Very sorry to have missed this, but glad to see you took the jump! ~ Amory (u • t • c) 21:17, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Welcome to SWAT!

Congratulations on your successful RfA and welcome to the ranks of the SoWhy Adminship Team (or SWAT)! I'm still working on the badges and uniforms but for now, you can wear the admin t-shirt during your shifts! Regards SoWhy 15:46, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

A very prestigious honour, if I do say so myself Congrats on the RfA, and if you need anything, feel free to reach out. TonyBallioni (talk) 23:09, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Funny that SoWhy's adminship team shares the same acronym with the Setting Wikis Ablaze Team, which Izno is sort of capable of now, too :) Seriously, don't end up in the WP:STOCKS. Congrats Izno! — MusikAnimal ^talk 01:25, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Bah, they stole it. That site was only created in 2014. Amalthea coined SWAT in 2009! Regards SoWhy 08:07, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Welcome to the SWAT, Izno. Congratulations! Lourdes 08:51, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Ditto - Ret.Prof (talk) 13:35, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks all

I just left a logged thank for you all who participated (I think) as I'm not a fan of the talk page spam that happens after most RFAs. I might come around for personal notes, or I might not. (More likely not.) --Izno (talk) 23:44, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks and congrats or condolences

WP:Links looks all better now! Unfortunately none of the talk pages says how you ended up fixing it, but I wouldn't understand anyway.

I figure that when someone asks a technical question like I did in an RfA discussion, it's kind of like comic relief. But, IF I hadn't been on vacation, and IF the question had been resolved before the RfA closed, I would have !voted you up, but it looks like you got by without that. Good luck! Bruce leverett (talk) 23:58, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Belated congratulations

I have been offline for a few days so I will offer belated congratulations on your successful RFA. I am sure you will do a great job. Glad I had a chance to support. Donner60 (talk) 01:23, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

RFA

Somehow I missed it, Glad you made it. · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 14:18, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Congrats! Lotje (talk) 15:41, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	For electing to take up the mop which is something I don't think I could ever have the willingness to do. I think you'll do a good job. TarkusABtalk/contrib 20:32, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

Double spaces

Way [way] back in the day I was on a team of "writers" in the Army: triple-spaced drafts, which we c/e'd for each other and (unless nearly perfect so the colonel could send it directly to the typing pool/proofreader) re-typed. And re-typed. Manually. Believe me, Ctrl+f and I are having a fine ol' time here. Yanno, unwrapping ellipses 'n such [too]. 'Preciate you.--Brogo13 (talk) 14:24, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Infobox religious biography

Hello, Izno. You have new messages at Template_talk:Infobox_religious_biography#Template-protected_edit_request_on_21_August_2019.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Administrators' newsletter – September 2019

News and updates for administrators from the past month (August 2019).

Administrator changes

Bradv • Chetsford • Izno

Floquenbeam • Lectonar

DESiegel • Jake Wartenberg • Rjanag • Topbanana

CheckUser changes

Callanecc • LFaraone • There'sNoTime

Oversight changes

Callanecc • Fox • HJ Mitchell • LFaraone • There'sNoTime

Technical news

• Editors using the mobile website on Wikipedia can opt-in to new advanced features via your settings page. This will give access to more interface links, special pages, and tools.
• The advanced version of the edit review pages (recent changes, watchlist, and related changes) now includes two new filters. These filters are for "All contents" and "All discussions". They will filter the view to just those namespaces.

Arbitration

• A request for comment is open to provide an opportunity to amend the structure, rules, and procedures of the 2019 English Wikipedia Arbitration Committee election and to resolve any issues not covered by existing rules.

Miscellaneous

• A global request for comment is in progress regarding whether a user group should be created that could modify edit filters across all public Wikimedia wikis.

---

• Discuss this newsletter
• Subscribe
• Archive

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:37, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

RfA header

I don't see why this needs to be collapsed. On the contrary, it being open would invite people to read some of the links - many of which are quite important. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:18, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Kudpung, a good chunk of the links strike me as missing the core point of RFA (the page on which I adjusted the templat to collapse, rather than in the template to be collapsed everywhere), which is to become an administrator (if running), and select those who would be one (if !voting). I think maybe only the first group box really invites users to those goals, and the rest is at best tangential to that mission (though important to many as to why RFA at least has a bad rap, if in fact it does not also have issues doing its job). A number of those earlier links are subsequently introduced in the mass of text, so they duplicate the main page. (This is not itself an issue, but on most pages the navbox comes later.)

Then of course there is the banner blindness (I expect that few use the template).

The edit was bold (and comes with the conditions of such an edit :). Maybe an even bolder edit would decimate the rest of the content to something people might want to read. A good chunk of it should maybe live elsewhere on e.g. WP:ADMIN as a part of the policy while we strip it down just to the list of links necessary to get people to engage with what we care about at the main RFA page. I think that might be more, rather than less, likely to get people to read the helper text. (I came up with the reasoning for most of the above just now, after the fact.) --Izno (talk) 12:12, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

I use that tpl a lot, but then I have a vested interest in all things RfA and am always looking things up. I would still leave it open, but I won't argue with you. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:22, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Bullets

Regarding bullets, it's no joke when they say you learn something new every day. I've been here a decade and was doing it wrong the entire time! 😱 Anyways, thanks for letting me know. -FASTILY 01:36, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

@Fastily: We only recently made the reference easy to understand (even if it existed earlier than 'recently'), so you're forgiven for your errors. :^) --Izno (talk) 02:00, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

What the actual ***

1. Why am I the only one that received a warning from you?

2. So because the original creator disagrees with my hours of edits he gets to control the page to where only he gets to make additions? The only thing he initially disagreed with was me changing the title to include capital letters, and after he reverted that back I told him that I was completely fine with him changing it back, but my hours worth of edit were completely and totally unrelated.

I even went out of my way to merge some of his newer edits with my own. One of the points brought up on the talk page was one of my EDIT SUMMARIES. Not even something that was put in the article ffs. He doesn't get to call something into question that I've never even put on the page until hours ago when I spent 20 fucking minutes wasting my time finding sources to actually include it into the article only for all my work to be flat out reverted. Honestly, fuck Wikipedia. I try to help me and some assholes ruin everything. Please explain to me how that is fair whatsoever???? MARIO^Fan78 20:37, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Precious

Three years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:52, 29 September 2019 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – October 2019

News and updates for administrators from the past month (September 2019).

Administrator changes

Barkeep49

Beetstra • KillerChihuahua • Kusma

Arcadian • Extraordinary Machine • Xeno

JamesBWatson → JBW

Interface administrator changes

Evad37

CheckUser changes

Courcelles • SilkTork • Timotheus Canens

Oversight changes

Courcelles • SilkTork • Timotheus Canens

Guideline and policy news

• Following a discussion, a new criterion for speedy category renaming was added: C2F: One eponymous article, which applies if the category contains only an eponymous article or media file, provided that the category has not otherwise been emptied shortly before the nomination. The default outcome is an upmerge to the parent categories.

Technical news

• As previously noted, tighter password requirements for Administrators were put in place last year. Wikipedia should now alert you if your password is less than 10 characters long and thus too short.

Arbitration

• The 2019 CheckUser and Oversight appointment process has begun. The community consultation period will take place October 4th to 10th.
• The arbitration case regarding Fram was closed. While there will be a local RfC focus[ing] on how harassment and private complaints should be handled in the future, there is currently a global community consultation on partial and temporary office actions in response to the incident. It will be open until October 30th.

Miscellaneous

• The Community Tech team has been working on a system for temporarily watching pages, and welcomes feedback.

---

• Discuss this newsletter
• Subscribe
• Archive

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:55, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

Thiyya wikipedia page

As you told in thiyya talk page, i have drafted thiyyar wikipedia. Please redirect thiyya to thiyyar. Kalangot (talk) 07:41, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kalangot/sandbox/Thiyya

please review and suggests changes — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kalangot (talk • contribs) 18:52, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

@Kalangot: Hello, please post your request/comment on Talk:Ezhava. If no-one replies there, someone should still be around from the AFC project to help you sometime soon. --Izno (talk) 20:10, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

Already created a draft on thiyya. It's been reviewed. In the mean time can you reduce the protection level of Thiyyar so that we could start a project through talk. Kalangot (talk) 07:22, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

@Kalangot: Your draft was deleted. It looks like it was a copyright violation, which is not okay on Wikipedia. You will need to rewrite and resubmit the page to WP:AFC. I do not intend to reduce the protection level of that page. --Izno (talk) 15:54, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Vandalism on Sambandam

• Ahuwwhh (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) User is here to disrupt the article only, not to contribute.Repeatedly disrupting the original work Sambandam Kalangot (talk) 01:23, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Izno - I have got a question regarding spelling of Esports

Hello Izno, I saw your comment that you had made. I am pretty sure it is supposed to be spelled with a capital letter at the front but you say that Wiki prefers not to use capital letters unless it is expected. However, Esports is supposed to be spelled with a capital E instead of a lower case e. I wanted to hear your opinion on this.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Hannibalrising94 (talk • contribs) 16:33, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

@Hannibalrising94: Please read the last paragraph of WP:VG/STYLE under "Name formatting", which is about how to spell esports. For our manual of style, esports is not treated as a proper noun. -- ferret (talk) 16:45, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for the clarification. Appreciate it!

Administrators' newsletter – November 2019

News and updates for administrators from the past month (October 2019).

Administrator changes

GermanJoe • Girth Summit • Kees08 • Nosebagbear

DESiegel • GB fan • MSGJ • Voice of Clam • WilyD

DeltaQuad • Fang Aili • Pakaran

Bureaucrat changes

DeltaQuad • Pakaran

Interface administrator changes

MSGJ

CheckUser changes

L235 • Mz7 • SQL • ST47

Ivanvector

DeltaQuad

Oversight changes

L235 • Mz7 • ST47 • Stwalkerster • The Blade of the Northern Lights • Xaosflux

DeltaQuad • DGG • Julia W

Guideline and policy news

• An RfC was closed with the consensus that the resysop criteria should be made stricter.

• The follow-up RfC to develop that change is now open at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/2019 Resysop Criteria (2).

• A related RfC is seeking the community's sentiment for a binding desysop procedure.

Arbitration

• Eligible editors may now nominate themselves as candidates for the 2019 Arbitration Committee Elections. The self-nomination period will close November 12, with voting running from November 19 through December 2.

---

• Discuss this newsletter
• Subscribe
• Archive

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:15, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

MoS VG

Hi there, I know you have some concerns with the addition to 'genres in the lead' in MoS VG as seen here [2]. I would strongly reccommend voicing your concerns now as there is currently discussion about these implementations here [3]. Kind regards  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 17:14, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

@Spy-cicle: Yeah, just trying to make it through my watchlist for the past couple of weeks still. I'll be along shortly. --Izno (talk) 17:15, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

@Izno: Sorry to be a nag but if you still have concerns about the addition to 'genres in the lead' in MoS VG I would suggest you make your position clear sooner rather than later as they are trying to reach consencus as soon as [4]. Kind regards  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 15:39, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Article recreated

Hello,

the headline says all. I recreated the article and I want to know what is wrong with the article. How can I show you the article?

Jicco123 (talk) 20:08, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Re: November 2019

Can you explain the message left on my talk page? Thanks! 172.223.6.230 (talk) 19:39, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Minor Template Edit Requested

Moved to Template talk:Infobox radio station#Italics redux. --Izno (talk) 03:44, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

ArbCom 2019 election voter message

Hello! Voting in the 2019 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 on Monday, 2 December 2019. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate in the 2019 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:08, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

ArbCom 2019 election voter message

Hello! Voting in the 2019 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 on Monday, 2 December 2019. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate in the 2019 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:13, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Google Code-In 2019 is coming - please mentor some documentation tasks!

Hello,

Google Code-In, Google-organized contest in which the Wikimedia Foundation participates, starts in a few weeks. This contest is about taking high school students into the world of opensource. I'm sending you this message because you recently edited a documentation page at the English Wikipedia.

I would like to ask you to take part in Google Code-In as a mentor. That would mean to prepare at least one task (it can be documentation related, or something else - the other categories are Code, Design, Quality Assurance and Outreach) for the participants, and help the student to complete it. Please sign up at the contest page and send us your Google account address to google-code-in-admins@lists.wikimedia.org, so we can invite you in!

From my own experience, Google Code-In can be fun, you can make several new friends, attract new people to your wiki and make them part of your community.

If you have any questions, please let us know at google-code-in-admins@lists.wikimedia.org.

Thank you!

--User:Martin Urbanec (talk) 21:58, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – December 2019

News and updates for administrators from the past month (November 2019).

Administrator changes

EvergreenFir • ToBeFree

Akhilleus • Athaenara • John Vandenberg • Melchoir • MichaelQSchmidt • NeilN • Youngamerican • 😂

CheckUser changes

Beeblebrox

Deskana

Interface administrator changes

Evad37

Guideline and policy news

• An RfC on the administrator resysop criteria was closed. 18 proposals have been summarised with a variety of supported and opposed statements. The inactivity grace period within which a new request for adminship is not required has been reduced from three years to two. Additionally, Bureaucrats are permitted to use their discretion when returning administrator rights.
• Following a proposal, the edit filter mailing list has been opened up to users with the Edit Filter Helper right.

Technical news

• Wikimedia projects can set a default block length for users via MediaWiki:ipb-default-expiry. A new page, MediaWiki:ipb-default-expiry-ip, allows the setting of a different default block length for IP editors. Neither is currently used. (T219126)

Arbitration

• Voting in the 2019 Arbitration Committee Elections is open to eligible editors until Monday 23:59, 2 December 2018 UTC. Please review the candidates and, if you wish to do so, submit your choices on the voting page.

Miscellaneous

• The global consultation on partial and temporary office actions that ended in October received a closing statement from staff concluding, among other things, that the WMF will no longer use partial or temporary Office Action bans... until and unless community consensus that they are of value or Board directive.

---

• Discuss this newsletter
• Subscribe
• Archive

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:48, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

White space above the table

Do you know how to remove all the white space above table on the 2019 Albania earthquake page? If you know, can you correct it if you have spare time or if you know someone who knows do it, help us, please. Thank you. Djole 555 (talk) 06:59, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

@Djole 555: Generally too many styles trying to do too many things will cause that issue. I've removed the offending styles. --Izno (talk) 14:16, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

WP:NOT revert

Hi Izno, I noticed that you reverted my edit on WP:What Wikipedia is not. Why? Did I do something wrong? If so, tell me and I will correct it. -◊PRAHLAD^Balaji 14:38, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

@Prahlad balaji: We do not refer people to specific non-Wikimedia properties in our policies in general, so the edit was entirely wrong and not obviously correctable. Please feel free to take any further discussion to WT:NOT. --Izno (talk) 15:03, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

@Izno: OK. -◊PRAHLAD^Balaji 16:00, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

RFC links

This was a non-consensus addition to the template ages ago that slipped by. All identifier links across all template directly link to the corresponding identifier articles. {{doi}} links to Digital object identifier directly, not pointless redirects like Digital object identifier (identifier) → Digital object identifier. Likewise if you use |doi= in any citation template. RFCs aren't special here. If this consistent behaviour is to be changed, consensus needs to be established at Help:CS1 or similar. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 02:51, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

It’s that time of year!! (At 50% zoom)

Christmas tree worm, (Spirobranchus gigantic) Atsme Talk 📧 18:48, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
	Time To Spread A Little HappyHolidayCheer!!
	I decorated a special kind of Christmas tree in the spirit of the season. What's especially nice about this digitized version: *it doesn't need water *won't catch fire *and batteries aren't required.
	Have a very Merry Christmas - Happy Hanukkah‼️ and a prosperous New Year!! 🍸🎁 🎉

Sorry

It was a test, and it wasn't meant for actual deletion purposes, I will use the sandbox next time. --Sir Bond 007 (James The Bond 007) (talk) 14:05, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

There is a user, who keeps criticizing me, and threatens to open a discussion for a block, can I please have some help? 14:10, 20 December 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by James The Bond 007 (talk • contribs)

Their response on mine is unsatisfactory. In their short time here they've created quite a mess and are clearly WP:NOTHERE. See their talk page history and edit history. Not only have they already been blocked before, they've made personal attacks, repeatedly made nonsense edits, edit-warred, had several things os'd, generally been an annoyance but they decided it was appropriate to make ridiculous tests on not one but three mainspace articles, one of which was an FA. Praxidicae (talk) 14:11, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Shiotani

Hi there. By any chance, did you check my comment in the wikiproject? I wondered if that person from Production I.G might have his own article based on on his many works as seen in the links I sent there but I still got no response. Merry Christmas.Tintor2 (talk) 23:23, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

Season's Greetings!

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2020!

Hello Izno, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2020. Happy editing, JOEBRO64 02:30, 24 December 2019 (UTC) Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.

Unexplained reversion

Can you explain this recent reversion of yours? It wasn't self-explanatory, as most reverted edits seemed constructive. Glades12 (talk) 08:44, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

@Glades12: Sure. I was reverting an LTA who likes to target character articles (and video game characters especially) with seeming good-faith edits. I have little/no objection to being reverted where you might like, but as the user in question is banned, that means you take responsibility for the edits if/where you do so. --Izno (talk) 11:52, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

That is helpful to indicate in the edit summary if you're also reverting edits by non-blocked users like me, who was notified about the action. Glades12 (talk) 14:24, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

Re display-authors

Re your removal of |display-authors=4 at WP:IPCC citation/AR5/test. First, even though the "test" was done a while back, I deem it important to retain the result as documentation of what that code produces, like a printer's "proof" page. Editing the result invalidates the test.

I had forgotten about this "display-authors > #authors" condition being reported as a "maintenance" issue. Perhaps it is time to reconsider that. I doubt that leaving display-authors in hurts anything, but there can be a problem taking it out. The situation I am dealing with is setting up standard citations for editors not experienced in the arcane details of citations, where we want consistent display of up to four authors/editors across a large set of articles, and where (going from early drafts to finished/corrected versions) there may be changes in the number of authors/editors. If an author list is increased beyond the default of 3 it is yet another niggling, annoying detail to have to know (or to explain) about adding |display-authors=. If there is no harm leaving that parameter in, how about we not track that as a "maintenance" issue? — Preceding unsigned comment added by J. Johnson (talk • contribs)

@J. Johnson: If you think there's value in not tracking it, Help talk:CS1 is thataway. I would oppose not tracking it. In every case I have seen it is an error to use display-authors >= #authors. The author's intent, your intent (and every other person's use of the parameter), is obscured when the value is not a reasonable value. We have template documentation to explain how to use template parameters, and errors/maintenance messages to guide a user away from a certain use (though users cannot see maintenance messages by default). I do not know where you come up with this so-called default of three authors, but CS1/2 templates have no default display of authors (though it used to cut off at support for 9 authors, as you might remember).

Another thing you can try, if you wish to retain a history, is |template-doc-demo=true, which will disable the categorization on the page in question. --Izno (talk) 23:12, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Right, the default of 3 is something else. But same point: I am trying to set up some consistent templates, and it is useful and simpler to set display-authors/editors even where it is not invoked. I see nothing unreasonable about declaring a limit even when the limit is not reached in some cases, so I question why that is even tested.

|template-doc-demo= looked interesting (thanks for pointing it out), but not practical. I also saw your comment about it, so I think that is a dead issue. Taking a "bigger picture" view I think we could use some way of declaring when some code should be left unaltered. But not something I'm likely to get to. ♦ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 00:59, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

@J. Johnson: You might also consider a simple <!-- comment --> to remove the parameter. That is some wikitext that people should encounter elsewhere, and indicates your intent that the limit of authors you would prefer is 4, but for the module adding a maintenance message and category for it. --Izno (talk) 01:23, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

That's an idea to consider. And could that also be the recommended maintenance response, instead of outright removal? ♦ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 23:25, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

@J. Johnson: My changes are a bit more nuanced in general than straight removal as sometimes I do go and hunt down the full citation's worth of material (all the authors, etc.) to see which of the replacements is warranted. In this case, the removal is the correct solution. However, I'll try to remember on pages you patrol that you prefer comments, though if you make yourself a template or do copy/pasting that you probably won't have an issue. I will not guarantee others will do the same and if you think maintenance of certain templates or otherwise should occur in that fashion, you should go to a community location for consensus. (I for one would oppose your request from the general perspective.) --Izno (talk) 16:37, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia Books

Since you participated in the discussion on Wikipedia Books I herewith inform you that a decision has been taken.

See Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_176#Suppress_rendering_of_Template:Wikipedia_books Dirk Hünniger (talk) 20:35, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

• 
• 
• 

Happy New Year!

• 
  MMXX Lunar Calendar

Izno,
Have a great 2020 and thanks for your continued contributions to Wikipedia.

---

   – 2020 is a leap year – news article.
   – Background color is Classic Blue (#0F4C81), Pantone's 2020 Color of the year

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year 2020}} to user talk pages.

– Utopes (talk) 04:34, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – January 2020

News and updates for administrators from the past month (December 2019).

Administrator changes

Dreamy Jazz • Newslinger • Rosguill

Deor • Spartaz • Xeno

Angusmclellan • clpo13 • Edgar181 • Matthewedwards • NCurse

CheckUser changes

Bradv • Casliber • David Fuchs • Maxim • Newyorkbrad • SoWhy • Xeno

Oversight changes

Bradv • Casliber • DGG • David Fuchs • Maxim • Newyorkbrad • SoWhy • Xeno

Someguy1221

Guideline and policy news

• A request for comment asks whether partial blocks should be enabled on the English Wikipedia. If enabled, this functionality would allow administrators to block users from editing specific pages or namespaces, rather than the entire site.
• A proposal asks whether admins who don't use their tools for a significant period of time (e.g. five years) should have the toolset procedurally removed.
• Following a successful RfC, a whitelist is now available for users whose redirects will be autopatrolled by a bot, removing them from the new pages patrol queue. Admins can add such users to Wikipedia:New pages patrol/Redirect whitelist after a discussion following the guidelines at Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Redirect whitelist.

Arbitration

• The fourth case on Palestine-Israel articles was closed. The case consolidated all previous remedies under one heading, which should make them easier to understand, apply, and enforce. In particular, the distinction between "primary articles" and "related content" has been clarified, with the former being the entire set of articles whose topic relates to the Arab-Israeli conflict, broadly interpreted rather than reasonably construed.
• Following the 2019 Arbitration Committee elections, the following editors have been appointed to the Arbitration Committee: Beeblebrox, Bradv, Casliber, David Fuchs, DGG, KrakatoaKatie, Maxim, Newyorkbrad, SoWhy, Worm That Turned, Xeno.

Miscellaneous

• This issue marks three full years of the Admin newsletter. Thanks for reading!

---

• Discuss this newsletter
• Subscribe
• Archive

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:06, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Mass Effect character removal

Moved to Talk:List of Mass Effect characters#Missing characters. --Izno (talk) 21:25, 14 January 2020 (UTC)