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Archive 1

Noa Argamani

Noa's name is spelt wrong in the Kidnappings section. It's in the wiki entry as Noa Argmani, buit it's spelt Argamani. Lyeuhm (talk) 13:39, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Done. Alaexis¿question? 17:59, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 October 2023

includng = including 2603:8000:D300:3650:F148:65F1:720C:E69 (talk) 03:02, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Done. JJMM (talk) 05:28, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
I've marked this request as answered accordingly. Elli (talk | contribs) 03:32, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Typo in page

A typo was made in "275 woman and children", "woman" should be plural. Ananymoos (talk) 02:45, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

 Done Cannolis (talk) 03:31, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Blockade will not be lifted until hostages are freed

Israeli authorities have explicitly stated that they will maintain the blockade until the authorities in Gaza have released the abducted kibbutzniks.[1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.73.245.110 (talk) 09:02, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

I added it to the article. Phillycj 17:02, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
I think it would likely also be worth noting Amnesty International's comments in relation to this point, specifically:
"'The collective punishment of Gaza’s civilian population amounts to a war crime – it is cruel and inhumane. As the occupying power, Israel has a clear obligation under international law to ensure the basic needs of Gaza’s civilian population are met,' said Amnesty International’s Secretary General Agnès Callamard. ...
An Israeli minister said today that the authorities will not restore power or allow water or fuel to enter until Hamas releases hostages. This is an explicit confirmation that these acts have been taken to punish civilians in Gaza for the actions of Palestinian armed groups."
Obviously not the whole block of text, but some paraphrased commentary regarding Israel's response to the captive/POW situation is necessary context. WillowCity (talk) 02:47, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
So, for example, after "...until the hostages have been released", the following sentence could say something like: "Amnesty International describes this measure as having been "taken to punish civilians in Gaza for the actions of Palestinian armed groups," amounting to collective punishment." WillowCity (talk) 02:56, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/biden-warns-iran-over-gaza-israel-forms-emergency-war-cabinet-2023-10-11/

Mistake in text

The article say hamas militants instead of hamas terrorists 2A0D:6FC7:400:23B:678:5634:1232:5476 (talk) 06:50, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Please see MOS:TERRORIST. David O. Johnson (talk) 08:21, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
So if RS are using "terrorist", then "terrorist" can be used. The question is whether RS use "militant" or "terrorist". Well, considering this very article is listed under WikiProject Terrorism as C-class, safe to say it's a foregone conclusion that the word to use is "terrorist". JM2023 (talk) 00:08, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

NPOV\Wrong\Misleading beckground

It is not written that the Palestinians detained without trial or charge are mainly under administrative detention, a tool operated according to legal rules. Thus, as written here: https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-757341. It can be appealed to the courts and is even used against Jews for security reasons. Others are in the investigation phase and before the filing of the indictment but fear that they will flee. Most of them are also for a limited time. There is an article on Wikipedia about it and this tool also exists in Western countries. I will comment that before the war in Gaza (More Israeli civilians have been killed by Palestinian terror attacks in 2023, closing in on 40, than any year since the Second Intifada nearly 20 years ago.) and during the war there is a lot of security tension in the West Bank, with the fear that extensive fighting will develop there . Which could lead to an increase since September 2023 as part of the desire to prevent attacks. I suggest changing the wording to write instead that "1,264 detainees are under administrative detention used for purposes of fighting terrorism accorging to israel".

In general, the episode is misleading and problematic. For example, the number not starting with 1967 is a trivia. He does not mention the possibility that these are mainly those involved in incidents of violence and incitement (and perhaps ordinary prisoners are also counted, for example robbers and serious traffic offenders that every country deals with) who underwent legal control. Many of them are prisoners of Hamas, an organization that supports violence, also against civilians, for the purpose of establishing an Islamist state, namely Israel. The sources are problematic: an article with a paywall whose content may contradict the scriptures, the UN commission which is a political body (among its members is China and in the past also Russia, not exactly human rights expertise) and Al Jazeera.
In general, the POW deals over the years were either soldiers for soldiers, soldiers for Palestinian prisoners (who were involved in radical nationalist events and their imprisonment was subject to legal control). Not Palestinian prisoners Prisoners in exchange for completely uninvolved citizens including the elderly, party goers children and toddlers (the youngest is a few months old) taken while massacring others. There is no mention of Oron Shaul and Hadar Goldin, Israeli soldiers whose bodies were in the hands of Hamas since the operation at 2014, and some missing Israelis (known as Avra ​​Mengisto or Hisham a Sayed) who had a mental background and crossed the fence to gaza. [[1]] [[2]] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.55.180.66 (talk) 07:22, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
User:Guycn2, יוספי88: and others. This section requires a deep rewrite or deletion.
יוספי88
2.55.180.66 (talk) 07:31, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Gilead shalit deal

(talk) , Some of those released from the Shalit deal became the heads of Hamas in Gaza. The same individuals planned the murderous attack on the civilians in the Western Negev, the one that ended with 1300 dead, many wounded and also the kidnapped (including children and elderly) mentioned in the article. https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/s1d9ygtqk One of them commanded some of the terrorists who carried out the murderous attack. https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/bjgwxk00116 2A00:A041:1CE0:0:E4F8:6297:E11C:A7B4 (talk)

"As part of the Shalit deal, Israel released 1,027 terrorists in exchange for one Israeli citizen. Among the released prisoners were 280 Palestinian terrorists who were sentenced to life imprisonment for planning and carrying out terrorist attacks, in which hundreds of people were murdered in Israel. Among those released were Yahya Sinwar, the leader of Hamas in Gaza, Nasr Yatima, who served a sentence of 29 Life sentences for carrying out the attack on the Park Hotel, in which 30 Israelis were murdered, Ma'ad Abu Sharah and Majdi Amro who served 19 life sentences and Fadi Juaba who served 18 life sentences - three of the planners of the attack on bus 37 in Haifa, in which 17 people were murdered and Abd al-Hadi p. Naim, who carried out the attack on route 405, in which 16 people were murdered, were sentenced to 16 life sentences, as well as Muhammad Douglas and Ahlam Tamimi, who served 15 and 16 life sentences, respectively, for carrying out the attack on the Sabaro restaurant, in which 15 Israelis were murdered." (https://news.walla.co.il/item/3616306) 2.55.160.89 (talk) 15:41, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

"Hamas says Israel refused to receive 2 hostages; Israel calls it propaganda"

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/21/hamas-says-israel-refused-to-receive-2-hostages-israel-calls-it-propaganda

Saw this article floating around a lot on social media. Any thoughts on where/how this should be placed? XTheBedrockX (talk) 19:07, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Israel denies this claim as propaganda https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2023/10/21/Hamas-says-intended-to-release-two-hostages-but-Israel-refused-to-receive-them also confirmed by Reuters. There are reports of a huge public pressure on Israeli government to do the utmost to release the kidnapped hostages. So it seems very unlikely that Israel indeed refused to receive them.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67248317
Two elderly hostages were released by Hamas on 24 October. https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/24/middleeast/israel-hostages-freed-lifshitz-cooper-intl-hnk/index.html GidiD (talk) 20:39, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
Yes, the article talks about these two hostages (Nourit Yitshaq and Yokhefed Lifshitz). Considering that they *were* released three days after the article was published, and considering that there are no other sources confirming this I don't think this belongs to the article. Alaexis¿question? 20:55, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Released hostages

Two more hostages were released today. What is Wikipedia policy on listing names of released hostages in situations like the one this article is about, given that so many people in Israel were kidnapped, most were Israeli citizens, and released hostages and their families might want to keep names private on Wikipedia even though the names have been widely reported by reliable sources (obviously WP:BLP comes to mind)? Other Wikipedia articles list names of released hostages, and they also separate hostages by country of citizenship. For example, see list of Foreign hostages in Afghanistan. JJMM (talk) 00:21, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Also, some of the hostages are minors. JJMM (talk) 00:27, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
Well, if their names are all over the media then I don't think it's a privacy issues. This doesn't necessarily mean they should be included, after all Wikipedia is not a list (WP:NOT). Alaexis¿question? 21:03, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Report on the condition of the abductees

In a detailed report on the condition of over 150 abductees, which was sent to the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) by Prof. Hagi Levin at the request of the abductees' families, it is described that the abductees are in life-threatening conditions and urgently need treatment with life-saving drugs and treatment of injuries. The report states that based on preliminary information, many injured by amputation; Serious injuries following rape, or medical conditions such as Parkinson's disease, multiple sclerosis, heart disease, cancer, as well as patients with special needs such as autism and dementia, or toddlers, do not receive the care they need. The document of the report here : http://news.walla.co.il/?w=//3616584 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.55.186.255 (talk) 18:01, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

I've mentioned the medical condition of the hostages in the article. I don't think we can rely on this report for the information about the treatment of hostages, because he only spoke to the relatives and thus seems to have no way of knowing how they are being treated. Alaexis¿question? 21:26, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Untitled section

To avoid bias we must include prisoners taken by Israel in the course of this war, not just those taken by Hamas. The numbers seem to be about 8000 taken by Israel (7000 in West Bank) and 200 taken by Hamas.

Perhaps the title should be "Hostages and prisoners taken.." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.101.0.145 (talk) 17:59, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 11 October 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. There isn't enough to support to carry the original proposal to add Hamas on the front, so I see it as no consensus on that one... As for the alternative proposal of 2023 Israel–Hamas war hostage crisis, I'm almost tempted to call it that way, and kudos to Vice regent for rallying the participants to see if they could find consensus but I'm hesitant because there are still a lot of oppose votes that didn't say they supported such an alternative. Therefore it's also no consensus on that score, but I would encourage editors to seek a fresh RM specifically on that title, and see where the binary consensus lies.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:27, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Kidnappings during the 2023 Israel–Hamas war → Hamas kidnappings during the 2023 Israel–Hamas war – This article only refers to kidnappings by Hamas, so it would be better to make sure that the group doing the kidnapping is in the title. PalauanLibertarian🗣️ 17:56, 11 October 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. estar8806 (talk) ★ 02:51, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Support. Pretty straightforward as only one side has done it. Alaexis¿question? 18:00, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
And your source for that is.....? Plenty of evidence/allegations to suggest Israel has committed kidnappings SurferSquall (talk) 18:45, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
Where? Can you cite some sources PalauanLibertarian🗣️ 13:49, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
Is it just Humas doing the kidnapping? Cwater1 (talk) 03:03, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
...and you cite exactly 0 sources to prove that. probably referring to administrative detention of Palestinian militants, criminals, and terrorists. as if that is in any way compared in RS or otherwise comparable with Palestinians kidnapping literal children based on their ethnicity and where they live with the threat to livestream their murders if Israel tries defeating them. JM2023 (talk) 00:12, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
Title should be "Hostages and prisoners taken during...." and should include actions taken in West Bank. It seems the number taken by Hamas is about 200 and that taken by Israel is about 8000 including 1000 Gazans taken on 7 October 81.101.0.145 (talk) 18:04, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
Oppose: at every turn of this conflict, including in the kidnapping, the PIJ has also been involved. They are believed have around 30 hostages, so Hamas hostage taking is not the only component and this article should not move simply because it's poorly composed at this time; there is obviously not going to be a separate article created for PIJ hostage taking. Iskandar323 (talk) 18:36, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
Then maybe Palestinian kidnappings during the 2023 Israel–Hamas war would be better PalauanLibertarian🗣️ 13:50, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
Would you support "2023 Israel–Hamas war hostage crisis" as a title as proposed below? VR talk 22:46, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
Oppose, as the war is just beginning and there's the possibility of other factions doing kidnappings. Per Iskandar323 on all points as well, and additionally, "Hamas kidnappings" or "Palestinian kidnappings" doesn't really clear things up and can cause confusion, as it doesn't state whether members of Hamas or Palestinians are the ones being kidnapped or the ones doing the kidnapping. Phillycj 15:15, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
I would prefer it though if the title of the article swapped "kidnappings" out for something more "hostage" adjacent. Something like 2023 Israel–Hamas war hostage crisis as this part of the conflict seems to be a big component in how Israel is responding with them listing it as the principal requirement for lifting its blockade, per Reuters. BBC also called it a hostage crisis. Phillycj 17:00, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
Support Given at this time there's no reports of Israeli's kidnapping opposing fighters/civilians, it's disingenuous at this time to have the article title not be changed. Obviously, in the future we as a community can reevaluate.Spilia4 (talk) 21:56, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
Oppose: Such a title is restrictive and goes against other accepted titles for similar articles on Wikipedia. MOS:CONCISE does not apply to current events.
Oppose: Hamas is only one party involved in abductions, not the sole one. digiulio8 (talk) 05:16, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
@Digiulio8 Would you support "2023 Israel–Hamas war hostage crisis" as a title as proposed below? VR talk 22:47, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
I would Support the change to 2023 Israel–Hamas war hostage crisis yes. It is also consistent with other titles surrounding the war. digiulio8 (talk) 00:58, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
  • Strongly support replacing the word "kidnapping" with "hostages", here's why. Most RS use the word "hostages"[3][4][5][6][7][8]. Secondly, Hamas took military hostages too[9], and those are not typically described as kidnapped. Our article on Gilad Shalit and 2006 Hezbollah cross-border raid use the word "captured" more than "kidnapped" as the persons were soldiers. Likewise, the capture of American diplomats in Iran in 1979 is also described as Iran hostage crisis. In fact see a long list of such incidents at List of hostage crises. A good title would be 2023 Israel–Hamas war hostage crisis. VR talk 03:48, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
    I was just looking at that Iran hostage crisis article. I agree that 2023 Israel–Hamas war hostage crisis would be a good title if the main war article continues to be named 2023 Israel–Hamas war. The problem is that, as others have noted above, the kidnappers included more than just Hamas. JJMM (talk) 04:36, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
Support moving page to 2023 Hamas kidnappings. Although not the only party, Hamas is the main kindapper and the current title suggest kidnappings on both sides of the war. A3811 (talk) 13:19, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
  • Support At this point there is no evidence of any kidnapping of Gaza citizens or militants by Israel. The name of the article should reflect the fact that kidnappings were perpetrated by Hamas, and Hamas only. GidiD (talk) 18:38, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
  • Strongly oppose the RM, but support a change to 2023 Israel-Hamas war hostage crisis. "Kidnapping" is totally inappropriate for the title. Currently, the article makes very little effort to disambiguate between military and civilian captives, and saying that soldiers have been "kidnapped" is nothing short of absurd. When an enemy combatant is pulled out of a tank and captured, international law has a word for that. The current title is a huge NPOV violation as it effectively adopts the Israeli government's claim that all captives (including soldiers) have been "kidnapped". We can do better. WillowCity(talk) 21:10, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

a woman was freed

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67258466

A kidnapped female soldier was released in a dramatic operation inside the Gaza Strip https://www.mako.co.il/news-military/6361323ddea5a810/Article-b528cc23d318b81027.htm?sCh=31750a2610f26110&pId=173113802

Uri Magidish, who served as a observer at the Nahal Oz base - was kidnapped and was later recorded handcuffed with two other observers

furthermore thepespetive of the israeli goverment: https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67258466 Netanyahu is asked by a member of the media gathered in Tel Aviv about Israel's position that its ground operation in Gaza will secure the release of hostages taken by Hamas.

He replies: "Our common assessment, of not only the cabinet members but all the security forces and the military, is that the ground action actually creates the possibility - not the certainty - of getting our hostages out, because Hamas will not do it unless they're under pressure."

and more https://www.mako.co.il/news-military/6361323ddea5a810/Article-e4b8f9e20e18b81027.htm?sCh=31750a2610f26110&pId=173113802 — Preceding unsigned comment added by שמי (2023) (talk • contribs) 20:54, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

I added a sentence about the hostage rescue. David O. Johnson (talk) 01:37, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

missing information here and in 2023 Israel–Hamas war article

on 12 october hamas released 3 hostage an adult woman and two kids, the woman name is Avital Aladgem so the total of hostage released is 7 not 4 jpost , i24 أحمد توفيق (talk) 21:31, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Placement of background info

Hey @Loksmythe, just wondering about your rationale for relocating the background info on Palestinian prisoners and historical prisoner exchanges (specifically, this diff)? I think a heading is a good idea, but I think it would make sense to put a subheading under "background". That way the content is presented more chronologically, rather than jumping backwards at the end.

Hamas's stated position is that it will release all captives if Israel releases Palestinian prisoners from custody (see these articles). Not saying anyone has to take that at face value, just that the incarceration of Palestinians is helpful for understanding the situation and its historical roots. The information on prisoner exchanges also provides historical context. As well, I wonder if ending with a reference to Gilad Shalit creates the impression that a similar outcome will occur here? Is your change based on a particular WP policy/guideline/essay you might direct me to? WillowCity(talk) 03:25, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Agree that historical prisoner information belongs in background. The October 7 attack by Hamas should be moved from "background" into the main section on kidnappings in the article. VR talk 20:12, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
Agreed, especially since that section is now entitled "Events of October 7". Maybe the first two paragraphs of that section could move to the beginning of the October 7 section, and the last paragraph could go at the end of the section. That would also get rid of extraneous subheadings from the earlier sections of the article. WillowCity(talk) 22:22, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
Disagree. Believe it belongs more in analysis and aftermath. Hostages and prisoners should not be conflated. Loksmythe (talk) 22:44, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
It's neither analysis nor aftermath, it's a historical precursor to the event and the stated motive of the captors.
As well, it's interesting to say that "hostages and prisoners should not be conflated" when the whole article conflates civilian captives with prisoners of war, to some extent. WillowCity(talk) 13:44, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 October 2023

They were also Kidnappings in Netiv HaAsara and Ofakim Please add the following:

Intelligence specialists believe that the hostages are being held deep underground in the network of tunnels where Hamas members and their families take shelter during Israeli air raids (no civilian Gazans are allowed).[1][2][3]

יוספי88 (talk) 10:57, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

 Not done while the main part of your suggested edit is supported, I can't seem to find in the sources you provided where Hamas members and their families take shelter during Israeli air raids (no civilian Gazans are allowed) but I may have missed it. Would you mind pointing to where that is located, or supporting it with a relevant citation? microbiologyMarcus (petri dish•growths) 19:54, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/12/israel-hamas-war-gaza-tunnels-pose-deadly-challenge.html
  2. ^ https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67097124
  3. ^ https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20231012-gaza-braces-for-ground-offensive-but-can-israel-achieve-its-objectives

Requested move 31 October 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Reading Beans (talk) 04:26, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Kidnappings during the 2023 Israel–Hamas war → 2023 Israel–Hamas war hostage crisis – The closer of the past move indicated we should have a narrower discussion on this particular title. This title is best because:

Disagree that the word "Kidnappings" is in any way awkward. People, including babies and children were kidnapped from their homes in the early morning. They are now also held hostage. Both are true. Gonnym (talk) 12:19, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
I agree it's not awkward for babies and children. But it is awkward when describing the capture of soldiers. Because this article is about both we need to use a term that covers all the hostages, not just the civilian ones. VR talk 17:53, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
Comment. When it comes to soldiers neither "kidnapping" nor "hostage" is the right term, so the proposed renaming doesn't solve the issue. Alaexis¿question? 21:53, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
While there isn't a perfect term for the situation—Wikipedia has to make do with what we're provided, unless you want to make the title of the article ultra specific (i.e. "non-consensual transportation of individuals during the 2023 Israel-Hamas war," which is way too wordy. It's best to simply rename the article to 2023 Israel–Hamas war hostage crisis, as hostages are (usually) kidnapped people, and Hamas has offered hostage/prisoner exchanges throughout the conflict. - MateoFrayo (talk) 01:13, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
Most of the hostages aren’t soldiers. Even if they are, they weren’t in combat. Off duty soldiers are not POWs. JacobS11 (talk) 15:52, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
You may not participate in this discussion per WP:A/I/PIA. nableezy - 15:35, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
The terms hostage or Kidnapping adequately reflects the taking of civilians against their will to enemy territory. This is the term used if any person or organization takes innocent civilians against their consent to another location to be used as bargaining in chips or for other means. Homerethegreat (talk) 15:29, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
It isnt just civilians, soldiers were captured and taken to Gaza as well, which is why this proposal is being made. nableezy - 15:35, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
Oppose the proposed title. It feels like there are at least a couple of points that haven't been properly hashed out yet on this page. First, there is a pretty clear distinction between captive soldiers and civilian hostages, and it is no small distinction given that taking prisoners of war, a.k.a. capturing soldiers is mundane in conflict, while taking civilian hostages is a war crime. Both are currently reasonably covered by the terminology of kidnapping, but not by hostage alone, and we should not be blurring war crimes and non-war crimes for editorial simplicity. Some sources may do this, but others certainly do not, and if we are going for an accurate descriptive title here, we should not be mis-describing events. I also disagree that "kidnapping" is awkward terminology: if anything it is the most accurate - all those involved were bundled into cars and whisked away to an unknown location, a.k.a. kidnapped. Secondly, Wikipedia would also be engaging in citogenesis to Christen it "XY hostage crisis": few if any reliable sources currently call it a "hostage crisis" and such terminology should be source-led, not shoehorned in for alignment with unrelated past events. In recycling past terminology the proposed title misleadingly gives the feel of being a proper name despite not being one. Finally, the proposed title doesn't really stick to our WP:NCE naming guidelines, which calls for 'when, where, what', and 'Israel–Hamas war' isn't a place. These events more precisely took place along the Gaza-Israel border, so a more accurate and precise descriptive title would be something along the lines of 2023 Gaza-Israel border kidnappings, which I would support. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:00, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
I understand your point about the morality. What I don't get is how you can describe soldiers on active duty at a military base as having been kidnapped? I have near seen POWs been described as "kidnapped", even if these POWs were taken by surprise. I suppose "captives", as suggested below, might be most neutral. Another suggestion would be "prisoners". VR talk 20:08, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
Hostage-taking is defined in the laws of war as detaining a person with threats to harm them to compel a third party to act or abstain from acting as a condition for the hostage's safety - therefore the term is applicable to military personnel and not only civilians. Marokwitz (talk) 16:35, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
Threatening to harm POWs is pretty common place (eg German atrocities committed against Soviet prisoners of war), and nevertheless they are called "prisoners of war".VR talk 05:09, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
Soviet POWs were mostly captured soldiers, not children or elderly civilians. There is a legal defintion to what is legally POW and what is not considered such. Please take note.
[16] Following quote from the Red Cross: in times of armed conflict, fighters falling into the hands of their enemy have been taken captive. In international armed conflict, such persons are known as prisoners of war (PoWs)
[17] Glossary list of who can be considered POW, so unless these civilians were captured from Merchant ships or shipwrecked, they are hostages, illegally kidnapped, not POWs. Homerethegreat (talk) 09:05, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
  • Support as I had suggested this name in the last discussion. Phillycj 14:11, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
  • Comment - I supported this proposal in the previous RM, but @Iskandar323 makes very compelling points. I don’t like either “hostage” or “kidnapping” in the title: prisoners of war aren’t "kidnapped” or “abducted” and they’re not “hostages”. All of those terms are defined by wrongdoing or illegality, and in the context of capturing enemy combatants, that’s moralistic and inaccurate. Imo, the best solution in terms of NPOV is a title like Captives in the 2023 Israel-Hamas war, or Captive-taking in the 2023 Israel-Hamas war. This is backed by reliable sources ((e.g., Al Jazeera sometimes alternates between “hostages” and “captives” in the same article, but has a clear preference for “captives” in the title). It also avoids us coining a new term. It's either that, or remove soldiers from the article. (Edit: changed my vote) WillowCity(talk) 01:48, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
    Per said above: The terms hostage or Kidnapping adequately reflects the taking of civilians against their will to enemy territory. This is the term used if any person or organization takes innocent civilians against their consent to another location to be used as bargaining in chips or for other means. Homerethegreat (talk) 15:31, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
    I'm going to Support since I see the proposed move as the less-bad option. WillowCity(talk) 02:26, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
Oppose - Almost all credible international media refers to the Israelis held in Gaza as hostages and their taking as kidnappings. They are so defined by international law, WP:WEIGHT. Civilians captured in an attack and taken from their homes into enemy territory constitute as hostages. The actions of having Civilians taken against their will and forcefully removed to a different location are referred to as kidnappings. Article deals with both, so I think we should leave title, since other title proposes don't seem to better reflect. Homerethegreat (talk) 15:26, 6 November 2023 (UTC)


The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Number of kidnapped people

confirmation and proofs are for 239. Would it be acceptable to change to “more than 200” instead of “around 200” 2001:4DF7:1:A07D:8482:4446:111:150D (talk) 10:27, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

hostage gave birth to a baby while in captivity

Please add this information: Hamas is holding hostage in Gaza gave birth to a baby while in captivity (source). Pacifico (talk) 10:29, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Has that been confirmed by any independent sources? Do we even know if the mother is alive? VR talk 22:26, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

POV tag for background section

Biased section that is almost wholly committed to Palestinian prisoners and does not address lengthy Hamas and Palestinian militant history of hostage-taking Loksmythe (talk) 21:25, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

This was discussed above and nobody supported its removal, or moving it to a separate section. As I noted in the prior thread, mass incarceration of Palestinians is "a historical precursor to the event and the stated motive of the captors."
If you can find published reliable sources dealing with past captive-taking, and there is consensus for inclusion, you could add that to the background section. But it's not accurate to say that there's no discussion of that history, since prisoner exchanges are specifically noted in the following paragraph. Not sure what more is needed. WillowCity(talk) 01:16, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
RS seem to consider the issue of Palestinian prisoners relevant to this topic. You'll notice the sources in that section are all on the topic of the kidnappings.VR talk 22:28, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

They shot, threw Molotov cocktails and attacked policemen: these are the prisoners who were released in the third stroke

https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/hjfss1111s6 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:A041:1CE0:0:583:CC48:F466:4946 (talk) 19:15, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

I've added some information about them using an English-language Haaretz article as it would be more accessible for the regular reader. Please take a look and lmk if you think something else should be added. Alaexis¿question? 20:35, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
It is english version of ynet: https://www.ynetnews.com/article/bkrylh11ha 2.55.52.108 (talk) 05:55, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
Is there anything there you'd like to add to what is already in the article? Alaexis¿question? 16:12, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Edit request: mistake in gender of mental health officer

The former IDF mental health officer that is quoted in this Wikipedia article is referred to as a "he", but in the cited source as a "she". Please change the gender in this sentence to "she" to match the source: He also stated returning hostages can have "black holes in their memory" and can also express sympathy for their captors due to "Stockholm syndrome". 2600:1700:E050:8120:50C1:C4A1:CD42:92A7 (talk) 08:45, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

You're right,  Fixed. Alaexis¿question? 22:01, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Evidence of the conditions

https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/s137bn4h6 https://www.mako.co.il/news-military/6361323ddea5a810/Article-0eab1db1d7c1c81027.htm?sCh=31750a2610f26110&pId=173113802 https://www.mako.co.il/news-israel/2023_q4/Article-42bc598564d0c81026.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:A041:1CE0:0:B15A:CF33:CEC2:87BD (talk) 20:17, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/byc5wfhrt 2A00:A041:1CE0:0:B15A:CF33:CEC2:87BD (talk) 21:18, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
https://www.mako.co.il/news-military/6361323ddea5a810/Article-0c664454e812c81027.htm?sCh=31750a2610f26110&pId=173113802 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:A041:1CE0:0:A1C0:A897:DD56:366B (talk) 19:29, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

He died , and more data

He died https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/r1jqsddbp There is testimony here about his conditions in captivity. also, A committee of experts of the Ministry of Health together with the Institute of Forensic Medicine, the Chief Rabbi of Israel and the Ministry of Religion determined the death of six, he is one of them. The next day, the name of a missing person, who was kidnapped, was published. https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/h1vjmpphp https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/rkygdp00hp 2A00:A041:1CE0:0:3DDF:186B:CB4E:A32D (talk) 14:11, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

I've added it, there have been relatively few documented deaths and he's one of the more prominent hostages.
While individual stories are important, I think we should now focus on sources that synthesise individual stories to give the reader the general idea of the treatment of hostages. Alaexis¿question? 20:40, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 December 2023: Missing period/dot (punctuation)

I believe a period/dot is missing between two sentences. Obviously a minute detail, but... Thanks to all for your wonderful work on this page!

In 2006, Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit was captured and held for over five years until a prisoner exchange in 2011 Israel secured his release in exchange for 1,000 Palestinians from Israeli custody, some of whom were trialed as terrorists.

Add period/dot between "2011" and "Israel". 2A02:908:1062:4B00:6E7C:5B54:A3F2:294F (talk) 09:15, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done, thank you. diff. --Orgullomoore (talk) 21:03, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 November 2023

The first sentence is this article states that "On 7 October 2023, as part of Operation Al-Aqsa Flood in Israel at the beginning of the 2023 Israel–Hamas war" is factually incorrect. There was a ceasefire in effect at the time of the October 7 attack. In response to this attack Israel declared war. Tovas22 (talk) 15:45, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Shadow311 (talk) 01:43, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Proposed merger

Should Kidnapping of Hersh Goldberg-Polin be merged here? It appears to be a short article that mostly overlaps with this one. There is little unique in that article (so far) that can't be covered here.VR talk 22:25, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

  • No. He is one of the most high-profile hostages with profiles on him and efforts to gain his release in The Atlantic [18], Los Angeles Times [19], Times of Israel [20], Al Jazeera [21], AP [22], Wall Street Journal [23], and more. Unique information that wouldn't be WP:DUE to replicate here. \\ Loksmythe // (talk) 02:33, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
  • No. He is notable like Shani Louk and he is covered by BBC and others. With regards, Oleg Y. (talk) 02:50, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
  • Support. Shani Louk is not notable, the event involving her is notable, meaning separately notable. The kidnapping of Hersh Goldberg-Polin is not an event that is separately notable from the attack on the festival. That short article should be merged here under WP:MERGEREASON #2 (overlaps with the article about the attack and the article about the hostages), #3 (the text is short and unlikely to be expanded), and #4 (insufficient context: it's difficult to understand what really happened by reading that article, and readers would be better served by reading about the Kidnapping of Hersh Goldberg-Polin as part of the broader article—this article), and WP:PAGEDECIDE #1 (covered better as part of a larger article—this article), #2 (several related topics, here meaning topics of the individual kidnappings ocurring as part of the mass murder and mass kidnapping event, can be collected within corresponding broader articles; for that topic, that would be this article), #3. (it is unlikely that there ever will be a lot of encyclopedic worth to write about that event-within-an-event, and while this is the case for that event, it is not the case for the killing of Shani Louk, because there already is a lot to write about that event, as evidenced from that article's length which is at 7.6kB [which is not a "short article", it's more like average] and there are already many sources dealing with her case in standalone fashion, and the article nominated for merger is 1.8kB long [that is a short article], and while there are some sources of the aforementioned type, there are not as many, and it is questionable whether more will appear). Considering merger from the perspective of whether and how it would benefit this article: This article which does not mention this kidnapping would certainly benefit from mentioning it and including some detail about it, so merger is appropriate from both perspectives: The source article's non-retention and the target article's expansion.—Alalch E. 16:55, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
  • Notified WikiProjects: Terrorism, Israel, Palestine, Current events, Crime and Criminal Biography, Israel Palestine Collaboration, United States—Alalch E. 17:48, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
  • Yes: There seems to be little inherent value in keeping this content separate from the parent. The parent is not large and the child is very small and would benefit from context, per Alach's reference to WP:PAGEDECIDE et al. This was not an isolated event and providing context is more useful than a standalone approach. Iskandar323 (talk) 20:10, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
  • No, per Loksmythe. The kidnapping of Goldberg-Polin has individually had WP:SIGCOV in a number of sources. Longhornsg (talk) 03:51, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
  • Support merger. For the "no" votes: the article is 90% about his kidnapping and things other people/groups have done in trying to get him freed. The article is barely not a stub and there's no indication that he has any notability outside of his kidnapping. Also, the article doesn't mention his career (probably because he wasn't notable before October). Given this, I'm not sure exactly why his kidnapping would be more notable than the others. The article quality doesn't demonstrate WP:SIGCOV nor does any searches I do (the coverage he's received is about the same as Judith Raanan and Abood Okal (both don't have any articles) by the looks of it). Cheers, Dan the Animator 04:49, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
  • No per Loksmythe. Appears to be enough significant coverage to warrant a stand-alone article. Jweiss11 (talk) 22:09, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
  • No per Loksmythe. I would suggest however to search for an image for the page. Homerethegreat (talk) 14:22, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
  • No, same logic as I wrote for the other case. Dovidroth (talk) 16:06, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
  • No, because I do not see how it can be merged anywhere without loosing most of the content currently included on the page Kidnapping of Hersh Goldberg-Polin. My very best wishes (talk) 02:41, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
  • No, the individuality of each hostage holds great power. It may hold even more power that this is a normal, American kid. There is a great effort to dehumanize Israelis and Jews, especially the individuals directly affected by October 7th, and paint them as 'colonisers'. Their individuality and their stories are the only way to combat this. Horrific crimes were committed on the 7th, and the world has rapidly forgotten about holding Hamas accountable. Each individual should not have their voice taken away. 2A00:23C4:2DB1:2401:B18E:A415:78D4:EE71 (talk) 17:50, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
  • No Page is long already.Telecine Guy (talk) 03:51, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
  • No - some of the abductions meet criteria of being independently notable and this can allow us to provide more detail while not violating due weight in this article. Marokwitz (talk) 22:13, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 December 2023

Here is my request to change the text- In the following paragraph, I would like to add (indicated in bold):

Hamas has offered a deal dubbed as "everyone for everyone" or "all for all" — a release of all hostages being held in Gaza in exchange for Israel releasing thousands of Palestinians in Israeli prisons and an immediate and permanent cease-fire.[125][23] Some Israeli families and parts of the public have spoken in support for a deal that includes trading everyone for everyone. Laurel1412 (talk) 13:52, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. I don't see any text in bold in the paragraph. Shadow311 (talk) 17:00, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

Vidness

https://mobile.mako.co.il/news-military/6361323ddea5a810/Article-8b0ebb139a56c81027.htm?sCh=31750a2610f26110&pId=173113802 2A00:A041:1CE0:0:488:3136:EF77:F77 (talk) 18:27, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Yarden Roman Gat

https://www.mako.co.il/news-israel/2023_q4/Article-58285ac631e6c81027.htm?sCh=31750a2610f26110&pId=173113802

"She lay down somewhere near a bush, dodging the bullets. When she heard that the terrorists were approaching her, she simply played herself dead. In the end, the terrorists came to the conclusion that she passed out, and simply dragged her to the car. They poured water on her face, and she seemed to come back to life, woke up, because she realized that she had already been caught." — Preceding unsigned comment added by שמי (2023) (talk • contribs) 23:34, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Ophelia Roitman

https://www.mako.co.il/news-israel/2023_q4/Article-c0465401b8f6c81026.htm

'"They gave me a small pita with a lot of za'atar, completely dry, I dipped it in tea to be able to swallow it. At 11:00 PM they came with completely dry rice." According to her, the people whose apartment was held had food and coffee. "I thought he was going to give me a piece of the lapa, but I looked and he came out," she repeated.

Underneath the house where she was held were Hamas tunnels - when they would launch volleys at Israel, the house would shake. "One day, my bed moved and so did the floor. I was scared, because the rocket launcher was under the ledges. The noise the system made was 'zzzzzzzz...' and every time this noise was heard - there was an explosion outside," she saided.' — Preceding unsigned comment added by שמי (2023) (talk • contribs) 08:52, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

@שמי (2023), unfortunately, given the number of hostages, it's impossible to tell each and every one's story in this article. What we can and should do is to describe the conditions in which the hostages were held. In view of this, what exactly would you add to or change in the article? Alaexis¿question? 20:40, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
Ophelia's relative is mentioned in the article. You can attach the information there. I would point out that according to her testimony, there was a rocket launcher that was activated under the apartment where she was kept. שמי (2023) (talk) 21:10, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Hostage List

Has any thought been given to listing the hostages and their statuses? I am open to doing it, but not without some consensus, as I dont want to put work into something that will end up deleted. In any respect, bless all of you contributors on both sides battling it out for what you believe to be true, whether it is or isnt. Ive largely retired from this insanity. Metallurgist (talk) 01:59, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure that a list would be helpful, since Wikipedia is WP:NOT a directory or a memorial. In my opinion, we should a) write about the overall situation, b) describe several prominent and/or representative stories and c) give the reader access to additional information via external links, for example to the list maintained by Haaretz. Alaexis¿question? 08:39, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
Does Haaretz have a list? That would be useful enough. Metallurgist (talk) 05:22, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Proposed merger 2

The kidnapping of Noa Argamani is not an event that is separately notable from the attack on the festival. That short article should be merged here under WP:MERGEREASON #2 (overlaps with the article about the attack and the article about the hostages), #3 (the text is short and unlikely to be expanded), and #4 (insufficient context: it's difficult to understand what really happened by reading that article, and readers would be better served by reading about the Kidnapping of Hersh Goldberg-Polin as part of the broader article—this article), and WP:PAGEDECIDE #1 (covered better as part of a larger article—this article), #2 (several related topics, here meaning topics of the individual kidnappings ocurring as part of the mass murder and mass kidnapping event, can be collected within corresponding broader articles; for that topic, that would be this article), #3. (it is unlikely that there ever will be a lot of encyclopedic worth to write about that event-within-an-event, and while there are some sources primarily dealing with that individual kidnapping as opposed to broader events, it is questionable whether more will appear). Considering merger from the perspective of whether and how it would benefit this article: This article already mentions this kidnapping but it would benefit from including some detail about it, so merger is appropriate from both perspectives: The source article's non-retention and the target article's expansion.—Alalch E. 16:55, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

4 years old

https://13tv.co.il/item/news/domestic/internal/dz1da-903821054/?pid=62&cid=902992383 שמי (2023) (talk) 16:46, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Can you try explaining further? If you do not know much English, write in your preferred language and we can machine translate it. Irtapil (talk) 09:56, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

New documentation from October 7: a woman is kidnapped in a car, tries to escape - and is shot at point blank range

https://mobile.mako.co.il/news-military/6361323ddea5a810/Article-ee1f944e4c09c81027.htm?sCh=31750a2610f26110&pId=173113802 2A00:A041:1CE0:0:C093:8565:C6AA:F4E8 (talk) 10:31, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

3 shot by IDF had placed SOS message seen by IDF and been recorded by IDF camera

It should be added that the 3 hostages shot by the IDF had left an SOS sign that had been seen by the IDF (The shooters hadn't been briefed on it) and that a camera carried by a dog had recorded the hostages 5 days earlier. Fanccr (talk) 21:49, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Do you have a reference for that? Irtapil (talk) 07:01, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
Yes there are sources for it. Fanccr (talk) 07:49, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Pregnant woman kidnapped

Zbase4 hey, can you show the sources that say that it is inaccurate that a pregnant Thai woman was kidnapped? @Andrevan pinging since I saw you restored the info. Homerethegreat (talk) 17:48, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Here is the source quoting a spokesperson from the Foreign Affairs Ministry of Thailand: https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2691178/fate-of-workers-up-in-the-air
Fact-check report: https://www.sochfactcheck.com/thai-hostage-did-not-give-birth-in-hamas-captivity/ Kollok790 (talk) 18:07, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
Second source looks problematic but first source looks ok. Do you have another fact check? [24] A google search showed me USA today and it said there was a birth. Homerethegreat (talk) 18:15, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
Second source is simply a collection of sources, look into the linked sources from it.
Here is an article from a Thai paper that spoke with relatives and close friends of the woman (just Google translate the page): https://www.matichon.co.th/region/news_4293121
Regardless, I think that the statement Thailand's Foreign Affairs Ministry, which contacted the family of the Thai hostage, is enough evidence. Kollok790 (talk) 18:32, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Hostages accounts - hostages physical conditions

I think it's worth paying attention to the physical affairs and sexual harassment of the hostages in everything related to captivity.

Mia Schem: during a testimony during a interview, she described that after being shot in her hand, and seconds before a terrorist pulled her by her hair and put her in a car, another Hamas terrorist touched her in the upper body. I think sexual harassment testimony must be heard. In addition, her mother describes that "after she returned from captivity, and after the surgery she had, she had a crazy convulsive attack. It was epilepsy created as a result of the lack of sleep and the trauma". source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12909153/Israeli-hostage-Mia-Schem-says-treated-like-animal-zoo-touched-upper-body-sick-Hamas-terrorist-screamed-covered-blood-thinking-hand-blown-shot-kidnapped.html https://www.timesofisrael.com/freed-hostage-mia-schem-i-experienced-hell-everyone-in-gaza-is-a-terrorist/

Maya and Itay Regev: Itay, the 18-year-old, was shot in the hip, underwent a "surgery" in captivity without anesthesia. His 21-year-old sister Maya, was shot in the ankle. She underwent "surgery" by the terrorists, who connected her leg in the opposite way. sources: https://www.mako.co.il/news-military/6361323ddea5a810/Article-94779cc5c56bc81027.htm (Israel's biggest news channel)

Please add these important parts from the horrific testimonies of these hostages. Saydale (talk) 17:56, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

The first bit can't be added if you only have about the worst of the tabloids to show for it (see WP:RSPS)... second one should be fine though.
I have no involvement on this page so I won't add it, I'll leave that to the discretion of other editors. Mattdaviesfsic (talk) 18:48, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
@Saydale, could you recheck the second source (mako)? It seems like it's about Mia Shem and not about the Regev siblings. Alaexis¿question? 20:00, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Catamine

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/28/many-hostages-released-by-hamas-still-being-treated-for-trauma 2.55.13.80 (talk) 19:18, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Hospital

according to doron katz asher, she and other was kept at hospital:

https://mobile.mako.co.il/news-israel/2023_q4/Article-92812c6e6637c81027.htm?sCh=31750a2610f26110&pId=173113802

She were with Eitan Yahalomi and others there.

Here, at 6:34 minute, he told that he was at hospital שמי (2023) (talk) 21:15, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

at the begining, they were at different places. After that (16 days) , they were taken to this hospital שמי (2023) (talk) 21:32, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
hospital al naser
https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/yokra13749928#autoplay 2.55.165.97 (talk) 05:50, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Adina moshe

https://mobile.mako.co.il/news-israel/2024_q1/Article-ebc1b7814bc3d81027.htm?sCh=31750a2610f26110&pId=173113802 she said that she was a prisoner at the tunnel that odf found 2.55.166.78 (talk) 05:44, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 February 2024

Change "Hamas actions at times were at times aimed at disrupting the peace process in the 1990s."

to "Hamas actions were at times aimed at disrupting the peace process in the 1990s." LosoYamamoto (talk) 06:33, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done. Alaexis¿question? 07:38, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 March 2024

Five storeys below (not stories) Oma-Clare (talk) 22:54, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

 Done The linked interview talks about five stories, but I think it's safe to assume that it's a misspelling on CNN's part. NotAGenious (talk) 14:53, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

NYT date format

I added the NYT article "Israeli Hostage Says She Was Sexually Assaulted and Tortured in Gaza" as a citation with the source and archive date as March 26, 2024, and URL access date as March 27, 2024. Why did they appear in dmy format after publication? Mcljlm (talk) 19:27, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Future-in-the-past claims

What's the point of restoring this? This was someone's opinion before the operation, which shouldn't have been added in the first place per WP:CRYSTAL. Now the operation has been ongoing for several months and this is completely irrelevant. We know that some hostages indeed suffered due to the invasion, and the article already covers it. Alaexis¿question? 08:56, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

'The precise ratio of soldiers and civilians among the captives is unknown. The captives are likely being held in different locations in the Gaza Strip.['

At the Hebrew article, they counted the soldiers שמי (2023) (talk) 11:06, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Are you referring to this section? I see the number of soldiers there but no sources supporting it. Alaexis¿question? 08:20, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 May 2024

In the negotiations section change the word compromised to comprised. Stoggers (talk) 19:52, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

 Done M.Bitton (talk) 20:56, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Should Palestinian hostages taken by Israel be discussed?

Curious. JDiala (talk) 01:32, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Are there reliable sources that characterize Israeli prisoners as "hostages"? XDanielx (talk) 21:15, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Propose that the single use of the word ‘juveniles’ be replaced with ‘children’ for consistency and accuracy

Just the one use of the word juvenile, with a reference to a newspaper report [33] but a later reference in the article to the same report uses the word children in the same context. The newspaper report only uses the word children, not juveniles. Palaceofthebrine (talk) 10:18, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Edit request to remove reference to Amnesty International report in the "Rescue and body recovery operations" section

The Amnesty International article does not analyze the February 12th hostage rescue and Rafah bombings.

The confusion probably arose from the fact the Amnesty report was released 2/12, but it analyzes earlier events. Though the number of dead is similar (94/95) and the location is the same (Rafah, Gaza Strip), the strike they analyzed occurred in January 2023, not February 12.

From the article: "The organization carried out an investigation into four Israeli strikes, three in December 2023, after the humanitarian pause ended, and one in January 2024, that killed at least 95 civilians, including 42 children, in Rafah, Gaza’s southernmost governorate at a time when it was supposedly the “safest” area in the strip, but where Israeli forces are currently gearing up for a ground operation." Hours-of-oats (talk) 16:49, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Indeed, fixed. Alaexis¿question? 19:51, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 July 2024

Benjamin Netanyahu's last name has a grammar typo under the "Commanders and leaders" section. Currently, it is written as Netenyahu, but it should be Netanyahu.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Netanyahu Isaacbloxcity (talk) 12:33, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

 Done '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 15:06, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

abuse

Eitan Levy's family published a video of the abuse of his body in Gaza. Eitan Levy, a 53-year-old taxi driver from Bat Yam, picked up a mine from Rishon Lezion on the morning of October 7 and managed to bring it to Kibbutz Bari in the Gaza Strip. On his way back to the center of the country on road 232, while he was updating his son Shahar on the phone about the rocket fire around him, he encountered terrorists who infiltrated from the Strip. During the phone call, the son heard the screams of the terrorists and the commotion. For about a month and a half, no one knew what happened to him, until it became clear that he had been kidnapped to Gaza. A few weeks later, his family was informed that he had been murdered and that his body was being held by Hamas.

https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/s12ihbsy0#autoplay — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.70.25.92 (talk) 07:57, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Month

@Foxhound45: stop updating the months! Braganza (talk) 12:38, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

@Braganza stop whining like a child! Foxhound45 (talk) 19:30, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
very mature reaction Braganza (talk) 05:27, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Aryeh Zalmanovich

The family of the late Aryeh Zalmanovich, one of the oldest abductees, was exposed to documents from the moment of his abduction • The video shows the jubilant crowd in Gaza trying to beat the 85-year-old while he was bruised and bandaged on the head, while being led on a motorcycle • About 50 days after October 7 It was learned that he was murdered in the captivity of Hamas https://mobile.mako.co.il/news-military/2024_q3/Article-38b960a26116191027.htm?sCh=31750a2610f26110&pId=173113802&main_article=3 2A0D:6FC0:B2E:B900:79FB:D296:B68:671A (talk) 17:56, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

I've added more details to the article. Alaexis¿question? 10:08, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Redundancy in background section

The first and third paragraphs largely repeat each other.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 23:07, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

I fixed the duplication that I noticed, thanks. — xDanielx T/C\R 04:40, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Couple source issues

@Raskolnikov.Rev: re this addition, I see the mission team was not able to substantiate (which is a bit different from your concluded ... could not be substantiated) in the first source, but I'm having trouble verifying the second source, would you mind providing an excerpt?

Regarding your other edit, I don't think we have any reliable sources referring to the prisoners/bodies Israel apparently bargained with as "hostages", or denying that they were combatants. B'Tselem statements are also generally attributed, per consensus from prior discussions. — xDanielx T/C\R 17:50, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

@Raskolnikov.Rev: re this edit, note that NYT says convicted on terrorism-related charges in their own voice. Is there really any doubt about whether such convictions happened?

Also, the comment about conditions is attributed to rights groups. It also seem vague and not very relevant; let's keep in mind that the article's topic is about Hamas' hostages. It's fine to include some criticism of Israel, but it's getting a bit excessive. — xDanielx T/C\R 19:41, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Ratio

The hebrew Wikipedia's article include list of the hostages. 25 of them were soldiers (the editors wrote) and 226 (251-25) were civilians. So the ratio is known. At the beginning of the war, they were in the midst of identifying bodies and locating missing persons and had to wait. After ten months, there is a list 2A0D:6FC0:B4D:6D00:A2:C3DE:8C3B:6F9D (talk) 09:31, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

convert to Islam

"They tell you that if you convert to Islam then they won't kill you?"

"On an almost daily basis. There was one day one of them came into the room, and he said to me, 'You'd better be a Muslim woman'...

https://mobile.mako.co.il/news-israel/2024_q3/Article-fcea314fa668191027.htm?sCh=31750a2610f26110&pId=173113802&main_article=5 2A0D:6FC0:B4D:6D00:A2:C3DE:8C3B:6F9D (talk) 09:39, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Anecdotal, - one would have to have evidence this threat was repeated to all or many (women) hostages. Some of their testimonies never mention this, and treatment appears to have varied from hostage to hostage depending on their keepers' (and their families). The source itself is mediocre. Nishidani (talk) 09:44, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 August 2024

In this section (second paragraph), the following text in bold is duplicated and should be deleted:

Hamas has used hostages as bargaining chips for prisoner exchanges, both alive and their corpses, as bargaining chips for prisoner exchanges,[49]

In first paragraph of this section, the following word should be added to sentence (just a grammar fix, thanks):

The operation included attacks on Israel Defense Forces (IDF) bases as well as massacres of Israeli civilians.--Steven Homan (talk) 00:19, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Done, thank you. — xDanielx T/C\R 14:39, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Kaid Farhan Elkadi

Israel rescues Bedouin hostage held by Hamas in Gaza.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3w67w47eego 2A0D:6FC0:835:5200:A2:C3DE:8C3B:6F9D (talk) 13:11, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Large rally in Israel calling for hostage release deal

There may be a need for an update to the timeline; Currently there's large-scale protests across Israel, in the thousands by Israeli citizens demanding the return of hostages and urging the government to agree to a deal. And that such protests have been fueled by recent reports of hostages' deaths.[25][26] Evibeforpoli (talk) 00:50, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

I agree, this is an important development. Alaexis¿question? 12:55, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Hostage account of Yocheved Lifshitz

The sources cited in the hostage account of Yocheved Lifshitz do not correspond to what is written.

How she actually summarized her stay in Gaza as a hostage was so:

“They were very generous to us, very kind. They kept us clean,” Lifshitz said. “They took care of every detail. There are a lot of women and they know about feminine hygiene and they took care of everything there.” See the source: https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/24/middleeast/israel-hostages-freed-lifshitz-cooper-intl-hnk/index.html

"I went through hell" is about her talking about the attack on October 7th and her kidnapping.

Also see this source (https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231024-freed-israeli-says-beaten-by-abductors-then-well-treated-in-gaza):

"I went through hell," Lifshitz said in comments translated by her daughter at the entrance to the hospital where she was being treated.

"The guys beat me on the way. They didn't break my ribs but hurt me there very much."

In Gaza, Lifshitz said she was taken into a network of Hamas tunnels.

"We went underground and walked for kilometres (miles) in wet tunnels, for two or three hours in a spider web of tunnels," she recounted.

Lifshitz said she had been left in a hall with about 25 other hostages and then taken to a separate room with four other people from Nir Oz, where she was placed on a mattress.

"They treated us well," she told reporters, saying a doctor visited the hostages every two to three days and provided medicine.

"They treated us gently, and provided all our needs," she said, when asked by a journalist why she shook hands with a masked Hamas militant as she was being released.

The toilets were cleaned every day, Lifshitz said, adding Hamas guards feared an outbreak of disease.

She described her captors as "very friendly" and "very courteous". Stefano1108 (talk) 10:34, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Teleprompter

@Galamore: In your last edit you restored some content, and the resulting sentence reads On April 24, 2024, Hamas had released a two-minute video of Hersch Goldberg-Polin in which read from a teleprompter. Ignoring the grammatical and syntax errors, the source cited says this: The video was likely made under duress, and Mr Goldberg-Polin appeared sickly, pale and thin as he read at least part of his statement from a teleprompter. That implies that he did read from a teleprompter, but it uses "at least part" to suggest that it is not certain he read the entire statement this way, like we are asserting he did. This seems like an assumption from the Telegraph, and as such, it should be attributed instead of presenting it as a fact in wiki voice. Are there any other sources saying this? - Ïvana (talk) 19:46, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Eitan yahaloni

describe what he ate: https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/r1rvflbyye#autoplay 2.55.164.173 (talk) 09:13, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Update

Sinwar is possibly dead, add the KIA cross to his name Deus vult fratres! (talk) 19:56, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Typo

Hello! I don't have an old enough account to edit this article but hoping someone can fix this typo:

...but instead part of the around 30,000 Thai laborer's who work in the Israeli agriculture sectors.

"Laborers" should not have an apostrophe. Keslambo (talk) 23:30, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

 Done - Thanks! AntiDionysius (talk) 23:33, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
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