This is an archive of past discussions about Bradford. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Like the bit about "Less successful BCFC". leave that. And what do you mean "German page is better than the English one"? That's crap.--Crestville 21:53, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
German is better
It is true, the German page has some interesting info missing from the English page:
A Nobel Laureate from Bradford, the band New Model Army, and much, much more. Since I speak German I might get around to updating both the German and the English language versions to improve both. rquinn 21:17, Dec 20, 2004 (UTC)
Vandalism
I've removed some vandalism by Crestville referring to Frank Stott and Brendan Lalor (I'm sure it's funny to the vandal), but 212.111.154.251 also changed the ethnic minority population percentage from 19% to 36%. I have no idea if this is correct or not, but this is the only contribution made by this IP and they don't cite sources. Anyone know the correct stat? (I did a quick search but nothing came up that I could see). Meesham 15:11, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The National Audit Office is the best place to find this out:
The non-white population is 21.7% Ninebelow 15:34, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Railways
I find it quite incredible that such an important place on the Metro (West Yorkshire) scheme of things has nothing whatsoever on its article about transport: there is precious little about its Geography anyway! And as for History .... Its links with Leeds and much else in West Yorkshire deserves better than this!!!! Peter Shearan 18:48, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The image of the proposed Alsop regeneration plan has been deleted. A notice has been on the talk page of the uploader since Feb & there has been no response so it could well have been copyrighted. Has anyone taken a picture of the model themselves which they would be prepared to upload?MGSpiller00:32, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
medway minutes
The reference is supposed to help explain why this article, while about the urban area of Bradford, which most people would expect to be the city, is not in fact a city at all while the City of Bradford article about the metropolitan/municiple district is the article about the entity with city status. I've lived here 80% of my life & until I spent half an hour following links round 'pedia I didn't understand that point.MGSpiller01:10, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Things to Consider
(I've moved this section to the end, as Talk pages are usually newest last.)
I believe that Bradford college seems to be associated with Leeds Uni now and not Bradford Uni. The college seem to be going through a re-branding exercise.
Also, regarding the canal / beck, I've heard that there are plans to re-open this (again) as part of the face-lift / redevelopment projects that are going on in the city centre.
I read somewhere that Bradford wasn't formed in the way that most cities are. e.g they tend to grow from the middle outwards. Instead, the city centre was formed because of the growth and merging of (I think three) other areas. I don't know the terminology for a city formed this way, but there is one.
Very loose on facts, sorry, but if you're dedicated to writing about Bradford I think these points could be included.
I don't think so: the centre formed around the church (now the cathedral) and spread. It did later swallow several separate townships (Bowling, Great and Little Horton etc) but I don't think that's unusual. Please provide a reference. ColinFine23:42, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure that the first comment is correct; the original town of Bradford (before it became a city) was formed by the merging of the townships of Manningham, Bradford and Horton. This [1] is the nearest I can find to a reference right now but I'm busy; I'm sure someone can find better.Scribblin' Simon12:53, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
OK, I think we're at cross purposes. The borough of Bradford was formed in 1847 from the four townships of Bradford, Horton, Manningham and Bowling. [2]. It may be that this is an unusual way for a city to be formed. I thought the original claim was talking about the original growth of Bradford township.
Incidentally, don't use double brackets ([[...]]) for external references - use single brackets, and separate the URL from the text by a space. In any case I've turned your link above into a <ref> like the other references. The page you linked to doesn't seem to be there at the moment, however. --ColinFine19:11, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Twin Towns
The French and German articles on Bradford helpfully list the twin towns - but the lists don't agree.
--Alan19:14, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
According to http://www.communigate.co.uk/brad/btta/, which says it is the website of the Bradford Twin Towns Association, "In 1970, when the Mayor of Roubaix initiated contact between Roubaix (France) and Verviers (Belgium) with Bradford to be followed in 1971 by Monchengladbach (Germany). Skopje (Macedonia) is a more distant but none-the-less important fourth Twin Town.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bradford/content/image_galleries/alt_art_gallery.shtml says (below a photo of the "Hammstrasse" street sign in Bradford) "Hamm in Germany is Bradford's twin town...But that's not all. We've spotted some strange new 'kids' on the Bradford block. The work of artist Otmar Alt, they too are from Hamm. Take a look!". It is one of a number of sites which claim this. But another article on the same site says "A very popular artist in Germany, Otmar Alt now lives in Shipley's twin town, Hamm, situated in the North Rhine-Westphalia region of Germany.", which I think is correct.
Mirpur District Council, Azad Kashmir, Pakistan – friendship agreement 1998
Mönchengladbach, Germany – twinned 1971
Roubaix, France – twinned 1969
Skopje, Republic of Macedonia – twinned 1963
Verviers, Belgium – twinned 1970".
I have updated the main article accordingly. I have added a note about Hamm, as it is so often claimed wrongly to be the twin. I have maintained an entry on Timsa, because I have found a couple of newspaper articles referring to it, but I have removed the material about the Sandanistas, as unverifiable: if anybody has references for that, feel free to put it back.
I have added Hamm again, after contacting the city government of Hamm. The bureau of the major (Oberbürgermeister) confirmed the twining of Bradford and Hamm in 1976, for further informations you can contact the city government of Hamm under the e-mail: info@stadt.hamm.de or via the main Homepage of Hamm (www.hamm.de).
These facts taken together seem to me to imply that Hamm is indeed twinned with Shipley, but prefers to advertise the prominent city of Bradford rather than the unknown town of Shipley as its partner. But I admit that they are somewhat contradictory. --ColinFine01:40, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Maybe, maybe not or maybe baby?! It is a bit of a Problem. Uwe Sauerland of the bureau of the Oberbürgermeister Hunsteger-Petermann has given the answer to my request last December and told me that they have some older brochure about the hole business. You may contact them yourself "info@stadt.hamm.de". I haven't the time yet to check it by contacting the local government of Shipley and Bradford. But I will! Greetings --82.83.238.12400:57, 10 January 2007 (UTC) Gabriel-Royce (German Wikipedia)
City of Bradford Metropolitian District Council covers both Bradford AND Shipley, however CBMDC was formed by the merger of a number of existing councils, my reading of the page is that Bradford district is twinned with all of those places by the twinning arrangments are handeled by a number of different organisations, if CBMDC ever de-merged then a decision over who Hamm would be twinned with would be made then.--ElvisThePrince09:30, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
We will know in some days time, I hope. I have asked the CBMDC for assistance in this matter and with both the answers the one from the government in Hamm and the one of the CBMDC we should know it for certain. --82.83.191.129 19:24, 12 January 2007 (UTC) Gabriel-Royce (German Wikipedia)
You can find me now here:--Gabriel-Royce01:46, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Hello everybody, here comes the answer:
"Guten Tag!
Thank you for your recent enquiry.
I am pleased to confirm that Bradford is indeed twinned with Hamm in Germany and last year we celebrated our thirtieth anniversary. The link is a very active one and the Oberbuergermeister of Hamm marked the anniversary with a cake-cutting ceremony here in City Hall on a visit to Bradford last year.
Please allow me to clear up the confusion about the towns. Shipley (which became part of the much larger Bradford Metropolitan District Council in 1974) had originally enjoyed informal links of friendship with Hamm.
By the time a formalisation of that friendship (through twinning) was being discussed Shipley Urban District Council no longer existed as a legal entity. Therefore the twinning, in 1976, was between Bradford and Hamm but special emphasis was placed on the link with the Shipley area as this was the point from which the friendship had grown.
I hope this clears up the problem for you.
Mit freundlichen Gruessen!
Richard Lee-Van den Daele
Lord Mayor's Diary Secretary
Tel 01274 432283 Fax 01274 395529
richard.daele@bradford.gov.uk"
The metropolitan boroughs are still districts of the metropitan counties. The Local Government Act 1985 only removed the county councils, it did not change any administrative divisions. The 1990s UK local government reform did however change the administrative divisions and created unitary authorities. The UA infobox should only be used for the latter. MRSC10:03, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
The UA infobox correctly identifies West Yorkshire as the ceremonial county, police area, etc, alongside Yorkshire as the historic county. Giving "West Yorkshire" precedence as a "county" without any kind of qualification is misleading, to say the least.
Cosmopolitan, Nightlife
I've removed the following from the introductory section of the article: "Bradford is a very cosmopolitan city with inhabitants of all nationalities and religions. It also owns a very acitve nightlife, with pounding, pounding techno music."
I'm sure that there should be something about Bradford's cosmopolitan nature, and probably also about its nightlife. But I'm also sure that this is not it! ColinFine21:55, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Can anyone help me? I don't know what to so with this. I want to write about the famous incident in 1858 in which seventeen people died and 200 or so others were taken ill after eating peppermint lozanges accidently adulterated with arsnic. At the time it was commonplace for food to be adulterated (for example chalk would be mixed with flour, etc) and sugar was often mixed with "daft" (plaster of paris) to make the sweets heavier. The sweets were sold in Bradford market, having been purchased from a sweetshop in the town. The sweetshop owner obtained the plaster of paris from a druggist (Mr Hodgson - a possible relation of mine) from Shipley, who was ill that day. He sent a young employee to get the plaster of paris but he accidently used arsenic. Each lozange contained enough arsnic to kill two people.
I think this is a facinating peice of our history and led to legislation banning the adulteration of goods. however, I'm not sure if it warrents its own article of where I could fit it into this one. Until that point, here are two accounts for anyone interested. [1][2]--Crestville20:42, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Sounds to me as if it merits an article of its own. Be bold! Write it - if somebody doesn't agree, they can always fold it into the main article. ColinFine08:48, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
I am sure that the lengthy section on the history of Bradford Cathedral should be moved to that article. Would the writer of the section like to do that?
I am doubtful whether the long list of churches belongs in an encyclopaedia, but if it does, it should not be in the Bradford article. I suggest that if it's worth keeping, the various churches should be discussed in the articles for the various localities (Allerton, Baildon etc) with perhaps a 'List of Churches in Bradford' article. ColinFine19:04, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
Seconded, the section on Bradford Cathedral is longer than the cathedral article itself. There should be a summary here & the detail there. I would kind of prefer the list of churches to be a category and there to be pages about churches or groups of churches but that would be a lot of work & I'm not volunteering to do it so Colin's suggestion of putting the discussion in the various local pages is more practical. MGSpiller00:27, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, a lot of the material on the cathedral needs to go to the article on the cathedral.
I think some of the churches in Bradford are noteworthy, but I don't think the complete list is all that helpful.
--194.217.194.13918:26, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the list of churches, together with the intended headings (they weren't syntactically headings) for other places of worship. I think a section discussing places of worship would be worthwhile, but this list is simply not appropriate for an encyclopaedia. ColinFine18:54, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
I was going to move most of the material on the cathedral to Bradford Cathedral, but when I'd finished merging the text and was about to save it I followed the external link and found that all the text I've cut from Bradford was a copyvio anyway, so I've discarded it.
I've made a stab at rewriting the Religion section here. ColinFine19:40, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
I've taken out this piece "The Abundant Life Centre, (formerly called the Abundant Life Church) is the home of a charismatic, evangelical Christian church. The building is modern, low and unassuming, but it is visible from most of central Bradford, as it is sited high up on the eastern side of Bradfordale." There is an article on ALC elsewhere and if there isn't a list of churches, mosques etc I don't think one merits a mention in the article -there is already reference to the "House Church" movement which is historically significant <small (Be Dave14:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC))
Dubious Bradfordians
I have just removed the following lines from the 'Notable Bradfordians' section
I can't find any evidence for any of these people's notability ('Manjit Hayre' and 'Faith Nelson' both give several hits on Google, but none of them seem to match).
The wording suggests very strongly to me that the first two have been inserted as a joke. I'm prepared to believe the last might be real, but in the absence of any references, I do not know why she should be notable. ColinFine22:26, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
I hope you mean that they are "Bradfordians of dubious notability" rather than being dubious personally. I am sure that they are fine upstanding citizens. ;-) -- Q Chris15:01, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Question.
Wasnt there a prophet/seer that said Bradford was the site of the Garden of Eden. For the life of me I've been trying to remember her name. Any one know what it was. Thanks. SimonD08:46, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
Stanley King would probably agree, if you look at his book on Heaton - with particular reference to Paradise Street. I'll check to see if there is anything meaningful.. Nick Watts12:37, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Geography project
Many of the points in the UKgeo box are valid, and I will address some of them. But while it may be true that for "Most UK settlements [twin towns i]]s a top-level section", it isn't for the two settlements currently listed as featured articles on the project page: Sheffield has it under Government and Politics, while Bath puts it under tourism!
I do prefer transport organised by mode. I see the point about the canal, but other parts of the transport section include historical information, so I'd rather not split it on the accident of whether a mode of transport happens to exist today or not.
The UK Wikiproject Guidelines have since been revised in an attempt to start standardising some of these settlement articles (Sheffield currently does not yet conform however). Prose is considered to be better than lists for content that is best presented as such. Jhamez8400:15, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Origin of Name
I was under the impression (based on what I remember of Ekwall's Dictionary of English Place-Names) that the name came from "braded ford" not "broad ford". Donal Fellows --130.88.195.18609:54, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
And what is 'braded ford' supposed to mean? Anyway both Room[3] and Firth[2] say unequivocally that it is from Old English brad ('broad'). I haven't got Ekwall. --ColinFine20:08, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Synagogue
I have just removed the sentence "Bradford is believed to be the only town in Britain which had a Reform synagogue before an Orthodox synagogue", added by RolandR. While it is true that quite a lot of this article is unsourced, most of it is straight facts that can easily be checked. But phrases like 'is believed to be' do not belong in Wikipedia (See Weasel words). If you have a source for this, please restore it, with references: otherwise it is not encyclopaedic. --ColinFine10:00, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
It is a "well-known fact", but difficult to find a reliable reference for. I have cited a reference in Architectural Review, which should be available in a good library, and is online for subscribers only at JSTOR. A Google search will confirm that the source includes the statement. RolandR20:28, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
There is no "professional only" rule, the rule is notability. Looking at the article I think that it is probably not sufficiently notable to be part of the Bradford page. There are many sports and clubs in the city, so unless there is some special way it is significant to the city it probably wouldn't count. However, the rule is "be bold", so why not add it and see what people think. Don't spend a long time writing too much though, it may not last. -- Q Chris (talk) 23:23, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
List of notable Bradfordians
This is getting to the size where it needs splitting off into a separate article what do you think? --Nate1481( t/c) 16:32, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
There is a category, 'People from Bradford', which already serves the purpose of listing notable Bradfordians. Maybe we should just direct people there, and not have a list in the Bradford article at all. Either that or the list in the Bradford article should be a bit more choosey about who is displayed. Obviously, defining who should appear on a limited list will be difficult! Nick Watts09:52, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
Redirect leaving only most notable such as JB priestly sir Titus salt, Eric Anderson VC, Richard Dunn, Richard Whiteley, the brontes --Nate1481( t/c) 11:44, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
Adrian David Moorhouse MBE — Olympic swimmer, won gold for 100m breaststroke in Seoul, 1988
some more may need to go as only my pov, left high honours (e.g. VC) statues, something named after them. Politician notable for th simple list but not for main article, a chancellor is. --Nate1481( t/c) 10:35, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
who to leave in
After reading this I see what you are doing tidying it up. I think it may be worth leaving one, or maybe two "pop" personalities in the list. Wikipedia is used by a lot of people and maybe a young person moving to Bradford for example would find that more relevant than The Brontë sisters, Richard Oastler, etc. -- Q Chris09:13, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
My feeling is that for a pop star to be on the reduced list they should have stood the test of time a bit. With all due respect to them, I can't imagine Gareth Gates and Kimberley Walsh being well remembered in five or ten years time. If they become the next Elvis or Madonna, then, by all means, reinstate them. Nick Watts11:26, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure what my opinion on that is! On the one hand I agree that they are unlikely to be remembered in the future. On the other hand Wikipedia is not constrained in the same way that printed encyclopedias are, in that there will not be thousands of ten year old editions lying around looking dated. Would there be any harm in leaving them in for a year or so? Anyway I will go with whatever people decide. -- Q Chris12:19, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
I think leave them for now I haven't heard of garath in news recently but that says very little as didn't even recognise the other name just the group (I hate manufactured pop...) --Nate1481( t/c) 12:39, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
I've just put back David Hockney - he's by far the most famous living person from Bradford. By all means include flash-in-the-pan popstars too, but Peter Sutcliffe, a "Notable Bradfordian"??--Cpottle21:36, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
The Abundant Life Church probably does warrant a mention, the above sentence is meaningless. The biggest what? Not church physically by any means. Does it mean one of the biggest congregations? Perhaps, though this would need a reference (KICC claims 10,000 members [3], but it is still possible that this is out on its own and that Abundant Life Church is one of the largest). Perhaps it means one of the largest Abundant Life Churches? If so, aren't there only a couple of them so this is rather redundant. It would be better to simply say that the head quarters of the Abundant life church is in Bradford. -- Q Chris08:44, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
Hi. I've re-added the statement, with a citeation from thier website. I just feel it's silly to not include ALM, when it's faily large, although I do take you're point that you make above. 213.123.199.183 (talk) 09:31, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
I have no objection to it being re-added with references, and your wording certainly avoided the above problems. However I can see someone removed it. I guess the reason was that it was a one sentence paragraph, and appeared non-encyclopaedic. I have attempted to add your entry to the paragraph on nonconformity, which seems to be the right place. -- Q Chris (talk) 10:48, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
demographics
Shouldn't there be a demographics paragraph in the article as well? There is one in the German Wikipedia article. I mean for a city this size and importance ... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.155.128.109 (talk) 15:59, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Is that graph missing perhaps because Bradford has a Muslim majority (according to news reports at least)? I fully support a demographics graph addressing the issue, which I take to be pretty relevant in a country and a city that has had a huge Christian majority for about 1,000 years. Aussiesta (talk) 14:23, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
What a clever way of sweeping it under the carpet. The city itself is less than 50% white, and the vast majority of others are Asian and/or Muslim. Anyone looking at this article without local knowledge would have no idea of this.--MartinUK (talk) 18:04, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
The 'city' of Bradford may appear to be so but I'm under the impression that demographics are published by local authority so they will be skewed by areas like Queensbury, Haworth and Ilkley which are more pro-dominantly white. Obviously if some reliable statistics for the 'city' can be found then those can be included, but I stand by my comment that different areas of Bradford have very different demographics. -- NRTurner (talk) 20:17, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Monty Python's "The Meaning of Life"
Wikipedia wants a citation. I don't know about that, but certain scenes during the song "Every sperm is sacred" have clearly been shot in front of Cartwright Hall in Lister Park, North Bradford. 79.69.143.146 (talk) 21:49, 30 March 2008 (UTC)S McC
I petition that this information should stay in under Popular Culture. It has the UK's longest running podcast feed (October 2004), is an international award-winning show and has listeners from pole to pole (i.e. north of the arctic circle to antarctica). They have also interviewed the likes of Brian Aldiss, Robin hardy (The Wicker Man), S.T. Joshi and many others. They were also sponsors of this year's Fantastic Films Weekend at the National Media Museum. -- PM68 (talk) 19:25, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
To say this is a major city, with its own dedicated WikiProject, I'm horrified by the state of this article, particularly the lead! What's happening here? If there's no objection, I'd like to fix up the lead this evening. --Jza84 | Talk 15:59, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
I've made some changes with this diff. I don't pretend to know much about the city, and I'm aware that some material may pertain to the wider borough, but it's certainly more befitting to Braford that it had been. Hope it helps, --Jza84 | Talk 18:47, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
I think the lead sentence is confusing as it doesn't immediately state what Bradford is. I think it should read something like "Bradford (...) is a city in West Yorkshire, Northern England." The bit about it lying "at the heart of the City of Bradford, a metropolitan borough" should perhaps go somewhere else in the lead paragraph. If no one objects in the next few days, I'll amend it accordingly.--A bit iffy (talk) 15:05, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
Indian population
There is not a large Indian population See Mixing in Bradford. I have therefore reverted the claim that there was large-scale immigration from India. I am pretty sure there are more Polish immigrants than Indian now, though they are not yet on any census data. -- Q Chris (talk) 08:26, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
I don't know where you get that from, the majority of Bradford's population is of Indian descent.
'The Majority of Bradford's population is of Indian descent'???!!! PLEASE at least try to get your facts right. The majority of Bradford's population is of WHITE BRITISH descent. As for the city's Asian population, which still makes up no more than 25 per cent of the total population of Bradford district, the majority are of Mirpur-Pakistani descent, NOT Indian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.138.98.253 (talk) 08:52, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
As stated elsewhere, the CITY of Bradford is less than half white. The metropolitan area is more like 3/4 white because it includes some outlying areas which are more rural and less industrialised. Correct that most of the non-whites are Pakistani Muslim rather than Indian Hindu/Sikh--MartinUK (talk) 11:56, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Wiki-CD preperation
In preparation for the next release of the Wiki-CD is there any chance of addressing the maintenance tags in the article, there are only a couple to look at? The article also has problems with several of the existing references and external links that are not working or require a password to access. Keith D (talk) 11:12, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
May be worth mentioning that a report in the 1980s ranked St. Luke's hospital as having some of the worst stats in the country, including the classic marker of infant mortality.
If its from the 80s I would say that it should only be put there if you also have recent stats. This would indicate continual badness or improvement. -- Q Chris (talk) 15:24, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
City of Bradford
I suggest that, in line with consensus achieved at Leeds, the article currently located at City of Bradford be renamed Local government in Bradford, with City of Bradford re-directing to Bradford proper, which can then begin "Bradford is a city and metropolitan district..." There is no evidence whatsoever that there remains today a settlement called Bradford, with borders identical to those of the city and municipal borough abolished 35 years ago, as distinct from the present enlarged local government district of that name. Chrisieboy (talk) 10:10, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
I think I would approve of that, we seem to be out of step with all the other metropolitan cities/boroughs that I have checked, such as Leeds, Liverpool, and Birmingham. The current start would not make sense to anyone who did not know that we are talking about some historic area rather than the official city. -- Q Chris (talk) 11:55, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Completely. I recommend that whoever is in charge of this page doesn't attempt to make it a long drawn out process like with Leeds which took months, maybe years of bickering before the change.--Tubs uk (talk) 09:02, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
I think that's what we call a consensus. I've had a go at implementing the changes, including moving City of Bradford to Government of Bradford (in line with Leeds), so that page now redirects here. If anyone notices anything I've missed... Chrisieboy (talk) 10:51, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Consensus? What's that? That particular word never came up while I was studying for my degree in Politics. Sooner this change happens the better. What is the general feeling of everyone about the change?--Tubs uk (talk) 12:15, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
I think we're talking at cross purposes Tubs. However, if anyone wants to move some of the information now at Government of Bradford to this article, please do so. Chrisieboy (talk) 15:29, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
The Bradistan issue
There seem to be problems regarding the Bradistan issue. Some may disagree with the nickname on pejorative grounds, but it clearly exists. To me, it is a simple portmanteau, and on a parallel with Londonistan. I have no agenda here - I simply want the article to reflect the city as honestly as it can and have personally spent many hours bringing the page up to an acceptable standard over the past few months (clearly there is some way to go). Reverting seemingly valid changes on the grounds of 'vandalism' seems to me to be somewhat excessive.
Do you have any references to who uses it, how widely it is used and in what context? I have only heard it used by a few white supremacists, and frankly if we changed the whole of wikipedia to suit their view it would be pretty useless. Also note that "Londonistan" does not appear on the London page and the article seems to refer to the book and then to Islam in London -- Q Chris (talk) 07:33, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
Inclusion within the article should clearly be based on verifiable merit. A quick search on google brings up 14000+ hits, from which I'm sure references could be garnered if necessary. Whether it IS necessary is what I'm interested in, and judging by several attempted edits by several different editors, my feeling is that it may well be. From personal experience, and I stress this, few of my acquaintances ever referred to Bradford as anything other than Bradistan. This is particularly true of those in outlying areas, and I'm sure you'll be pleased to know, none (as far as I'm aware) worshipped at the altar of the KKK. I think we're in danger of becoming over-sensitive here. Should the name Little Germany be considered objectionable in case it offends those in Hamburg? I think censorship is what could ultimately render wikipedia useless - not what you've happened to hear and from whom(!)
Similarly, with regards to your nomination for the deletion of Londonistan (which has endless references), again, the fact you "haven't heard the term before" doesn't mean it doesn't exist! Perhaps a seemingly less biased opinion might be of worth here.
It is hardly the same as a recognised place name like "Little Germany". I have not seen any other city include insulting nicknames in their articles. -- Q Chris (talk) 18:51, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
For what it's worth, I have lived in Bradford for nearly 35 years, worked in local government for over 20, and I've never heard it used. If someone can find a reference in one of the local papers to it, then that might source a legitimate usage, but I've never seen it used in the T&A (even in the letters page, although I suspect they probably censor that)Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:03, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Same here, only heard it once on a documentary on the BNP by some skinhead, and never read it before the attempt to add it to this article, though I have only lived here 11 years. -- Q Chris (talk) 09:21, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure that muslims do find the term derogatory, to be honest. If anything, I'd say it reinforces a sense of unity and belonging within the community. We can be in no doubt that muslims have colonised large swathes of the city, and their voice is of no less importance in this article. I agree that its usage by non-muslims is where we could see problems, but that doesn't mean wikipedia should pander to oversensitivity. The term exists, and has been clearly referenced. Thisrain (talk) 13:25, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
I've heard it used loads, both derogatively and comically, the souces show it exists so it should be included & noted that it may be considered offensive. --Natet/c14:02, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
Good grief, I thought that when the two articles were "merged" that City of Bradford would at least be turned into a redirect. Also, did you know that City of bradford redirected to Bradford (I've changed it to redirect to City of Bradford now)? What a mess. Feel free to undo my edit, although other people may revert because the article still says it's about the borough. Nev1 (talk) 14:44, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
They probably both need a complete rewriting really. One of the many arguments presented for a merger (which I do think works in those cases where a city was untouched by the LGA72 for example) was that the content suffers as editors are confused as to the scope of both entities. I'd counter that by pointing to the fact that City of Salford and Salford, Greater Manchester are Good Articles.
Agreed. It was "renamed" not "originally renamed" - it was originally (and remained so for years) called City of Bradford, and there was no discussion raised at WP:UKGEO or WP:ENGLAND. The criteria used for the Leeds merger did not apply to Bradford, and I made that point at Talk:Leeds that if you merge them, people will want 'their' cities merged as they will think the primary slot (Bradford) is being downgraded (an issue resolved if it became a dab page). We were promised Leeds would improve, it hasn't. Salford and Carlisle have though, and I have to keep showing that to prove that Leeds can be there if it wants it. --Jza84 | Talk 23:54, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
I have no comment to make on the rightness or not of the merge at Bradford, as I do not know the ins and outs of it. It was merged following a discussion (Bradford now starts: Bradford is a city and metropolitan borough...), and the City of Bradford page renamed to avoid confusion. In undoing the rename, but not the merge, there are now two articles about the same thing. Like I said, I don't know whether a merge was correct or not, but only undoing the actions on one page has left the confusing situation. Quantpole (talk) 01:14, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
This is a confusing state of affairs, I agree. I tried to address some of the gaping holes that were in the article over the past 6 months or so (demographics/crime/governance etc) but most of these details pertain to the borough, whereas most of the article does not. I took no part in the initial merger discussions, but it seems the reason for doing so was to follow the example of Leeds. I can't comment on the pros and cons of splitting the article in this instance - there seems to have been little to no input into the Bradford article from others, so something clearly needs to be done. I've been reluctant to make wholesale changes to the text (Economy down, in particular) because the merge did seem somewhat hasty and as an outsider, I didn't know where to start! If the articles are to be separated, then so be it. I think anything would help, and might even encourage the participation of others. I'll abide by any changes, and will certainly be more inclined to research and edit once these are made, and the scope is set in stone.Thisrain (talk) 23:08, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
I've taken the lead in rewriting the City of Bradford article in line with the proposals above. I can't comment on a Bradford article - I'm not from the area, so know little of the settlement itself and its boundaries, but an MB I can deal with. Having been pointed to the City of Salford article and its status as a GA on many, many occasions(!) by Jza84 in the discussion on the Leeds split, if there are no objections, I think it would be sensible to use that as a guide, despite the obvious risk of rampant plagiarism! Thisrain (talk) 00:21, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
I've just reverted an edit by User:Sir Stanley, because it added information that was already in the article [4]. Also, it wasn't entirely correct - firstly, Bradford's Jewish population is now small, compared to what it was at the time the synagogues referred to were built, and secondly the truncated description of the two occasions of race riots was significantly flawed. Happy to discuss further. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:10, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
link rot
The lead of the article concludes: "Bradford is often cited as one of the prime examples of 'parallel communities', where the population is effectively segregated along ethnic, cultural and faith lines.[7][dead link]"
Searching yorkshireandthehumber, it appears that her majesty's new government feels that facts for now are things best kept hidden: go archives seem to be unavailable. Anyone feel motivated to do some digging -- to get around the road block? - 67.224.51.189 (talk) 17:51, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
Unity Hall
Hello. Would anyone have a picture of the Unity Hall at Rawson Square in Bradford ? The building has been used as a meeting place for the theosophical society in the early 20th century. It would useful for an article (cottingley fairies) on wp.fr. Many thanks. A t ar a x i e--parler10:55, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Not sure if this is the building you are looking for but there is this image on Geograph project that can be used. There is an exercise in progress to upload all of the Geograph images to Commons so if you use it upload directly to Commons rather than local wiki. Keith D (talk) 11:33, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Removal of Salts Mill
I've removed a paragraph on Salts Mill, and the photo. This is an article on Bradford the city, not the Met Borough, which has an article at City of Bradford. The City of, and the Saltaire articles are the proper locations for information on Salts Mill. Bradford is not, for the simple reason that the mill is not in Bradford. --Tagishsimon(talk)23:38, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
External links
The External links list is sprawling out of control with the vast majority being out of sync with Wikipedia's policies on WP:EL and WP:SPAM. I'd recommend a radical trim-down, so we're more inline with Manchester or London. -- Jza84 · (talk)15:56, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Queensbury is part of the old City of Bradford and doesn't skew anything.In fact just taking the old pre 1974 City boundary ,the City of Bradford would still have a large majority of white people living in it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bradford Guitar Boy (talk • contribs) 13:33, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
Queensbury was not part of Bradford until 1974 (I live there). Prior to that it was part of the Queensbury and Shelf Urban District, and prior to 1937 an independent village. I have no idea of weather there would be a majority of white people within the area that was Bradford before 1974, it might be possible to work this out by adding up ward statistics. -- Q Chris (talk) 14:01, 1 April 2011 (UTC):
But that would be original research, which is not allowed. A reliable secondary source would be needed.--Charles (talk) 17:21, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
Continued addition of areas outside the Bradford Settlement
Some users repeatedly add things which are outside the are to this article. As this map shows [5] Thornton is outside the settlement of Bradford. Indeed at the time of the Brontes' residence (from 1815 to 1820), Thornton was still a very small hamlet [6]. Also the Thornton, West Yorkshire article states that it was incorporated into Bradford only in 1974. There are lots of nice places near Bradford but they should not be added to this article unless they are in the area. -- Q Chris (talk) 08:23, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
Thornton village was incorporated into the City of Bradford around 1919/21 not in 1974,the birth place of Charlotte,Emily Jane and Anne Bronte is therefore within the pre 1974 City boundary and as such is an important landmark situated in the old City of Bradford. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bradford Guitar Boy (talk • contribs) 19:34, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
BGB, you are making an assertion. It is up to you to prove that what you say is fact. Do you have a reference from a reliable source that backs up your statement? Mjroots (talk) 20:08, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
[7] Thornton was not in Bradford, it was a township in the ecclesiastical parish. It has its own article and shouldn't be here.--J3Mrs (talk) 20:16, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
Thornton was part of the City of Bradford before the 1974 reorganisation,it became part of the City around 1919/21.As such the Bronte birth place should be included in Bradford's landmark section.The Bradford central library archives section has all the relevant information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bradford Guitar Boy (talk • contribs) 17:12, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
It's no use keep repeating yourself without providing a better argument. The Brontes were born and died long before Thornton became part of Bradford and as such should not be in this article. Nobody disputes it is now part of the city but was a separate isolated hamlet in the early 1800s when the Brontes were there and sources say some of the Bronte children were born in Thornton. --J3Mrs (talk) 18:13, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
It may be relevant to the City of Bradford article which covers the metropolitan borough but not to this one which is about Bradford settlement.--Charles (talk) 19:10, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
The Bradford site covers the old City boundary pre 1974 ,obviously over the years up to that date the City of Bradford grew ,i repeat Thornton village was added around 1919/21.That means all landmarks inside the old city limits up to 1974 should be pointed out.I lived there for many years and the old City boundary coat of arms was situated about a mile further up the road towards Denholm.The map of Bradford in 1820 is not relevant as the page does not just cover that period.The argument that because the Bronte sisters were born at a time when Thornton wasn't part of the town of Bradford makes no sense as the page is based on the City boundary up to 1974 which included Thornton,which of course has the very important Bronte sisters landmark in itBradford Guitar Boy (talk) 07:54, 4 April 2011 (UTC).
Actually most of the Bradford article covers the central settlement. If it includes everything before 1974 this would include many towns that are historically independent and I would see little point in having a separate article. Put it this way, people in Queensbury, Thornton, Shipley, etc will say that they "are going into Bradford" to shop and everyone will know what they mean. -- Q Chris (talk) 08:16, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
Who says it is based on the 1974 boundaries? Surely that's the metropolitan district. It's talking about Bradford now. Can you provided sources that state the Brontes were born in Bradford?--J3Mrs (talk) 08:49, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
Chris, when people say they are "going into Bradford to shop", are they not just referring to the actual city centre rather than the whole of the main settlement? The problem as I see it is that we have a vague definition of the main settlement, relying on a deadlink from the council website. Is there any clearer definition that doesn't rely on us second-guessing popular speech? Green Giant (talk) 19:09, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
Its true they mean the centre, but people living in Bradford say "into the centre" or something. It is obvious that if you are in Thornton, Queensbury, Wibsey, and similar places that they are seperate entities with their own centre, shops, church, post office, etc. Similarly if I am going to see someone in Wibsey I would say "I'm going to Wibsey", not "I'm going to Bradford", whereas if I visit someone in Bradford I will say so - maybe with a qualification like "just outside the centre on the Manchester road". I think the definition of the Bradford settlement is the area that grew out of Bradford rather than any other village or hamlet. -- Q Chris (talk) 18:36, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
You see this is a major problem that some editors here are simply failing to recognise. What are the boundaries of the settlement as you see it? This article's Government section lists 18 wards as forming the settlement including Thornton, Queensbury and Wibsey, so I would like to see some clarity on which of those wards you think don't form part of the main settlement and why. Your definition includes shops, churches and post offices but am I wrong in assuming that such buildings are located right across the settlement? What I am getting at is that we as editors should not be deciding the boundaries; on the contrary we should be basing the definition on a reliable source e.g. the council website would be fine. If there is no such definition then we are teetering on the edge of original research. Green Giant (talk) 01:22, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
Just in case you don't know what we are talking about, please look at the Google satellite and map page which clearly shows Thornton as a separate village surrounded by agricultural land. I am not claiming that everywhere with a post office is a separate entity, just that there are some areas that are absolutely clearly separate settlements. -- Q Chris (talk) 08:37, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
I think you'll find i said the pre 1974 boundary.The Bronte sisters were in fact born in Thornton which was incorporated into the City around about the dates i printed above.Having lived in the village pre 1974,i can guarantee that it was within the City of Bradford.There seems to be some misunderstanding in one of the posts above in regards to Queensbury which was also part of the City long before the local goverment reorganisation in 1974.Bradford Guitar Boy (talk) 09:02, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
You have not provided reliable, verifiable references. Your guarantee I'm afraid doesn't count. The ref I provided says it was separate.--J3Mrs (talk) 09:07, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
There is a good argument for including and linking the townships incorporated into Bradford in the Governance section but as yet none for including the Brontes.--J3Mrs (talk) 11:49, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
In fact the reference given[10] if anything weights against it:
"Thornton remained a fairly detached settlement until the twentieth century, combining rural and urban components in its character. It only became incorporated within Bradford in 1899 although Thornton still retains an element of its former separate identity."
BGB is a new editor and not familiar with the structure of these articles which is quite obvious from the disputed highly unfocussed edit. There is plenty of information in the pdf that could improve the Thornton article. There is no reason to not say that the boundaries of Bradford were extended in 1899 to include x, y and z, and remove the current wards which really belong to the City of Bradford article.--J3Mrs (talk) 12:13, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
In regards to Thornton seeming to be seperate,that is not a reason to not have the sisters birth place mentioned on the page.It has been a part of the City of Bradford since 1899 and as such is a major landmark in the City.Bradford Guitar Boy (talk) 12:32, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
I think you are labouring under yet another misinterpretation, landmarks are stand out buildings like the City Hall and Manningham Mills. The birthplace of the Brontes rightfully belongs in the Thornton article which should be linked to this article. Books about the Brontes mention Thornton NOT Bradford. This is an encyclopedia not a tourist guide.--J3Mrs (talk) 12:55, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
I'm not labouring under any misinterpretation.The birth place of the Bronte sisters is a very important landmark in Thornton,Bradford,Thornton village was incorporated into the City of Bradford in 1899,two years after Bradford was granted City status,the Bronte birth place is a grade 11 listed building,for it not to be included into the Bradford landmark section is ludicrous.92.14.111.89 (talk) 18:11, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
Had the Brontes been born after incorporation you would have a stronger case. In Bradford I would expect to see the cathedral etc but if I wanted to see where the Brontes were born I would look at Thornton. We won't agree, I have suggested a way forward but you seem intent on pushing you own point of view. --J3Mrs (talk) 19:21, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
I've got to be honest,i simply don't get what the problem is,it seemed that the objection was that Thornton had been incorporated into the City of Bradford in 1974 which wasn't covered by this particular Bradford page,(personally i believe there should just be one Bradford page covering the whole district which would end this total waste of time)......having lived in the village i new that was not the case.I can understand how misconceptions can happen but i just found it incredible that one of the Cities greatest treasures was not getting mentioned.
In all honesty,i cannot fathom the idea that because the Bronte sisters were born at a time when Thornton was a village on the outskirts of the town of Bradford,they don't rate a mention on the Bradford page,if the page was the "Town of Bradford" page you'd have a point but it isn't,Thornton was incorporated into the City in 1899 and as the page covers everything within the old pre 1974 city boundary,that should include one of the Cities greatest treasures,the Bronte sisters birth place.Bradford Guitar Boy (talk) 20:37, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
You don't get it. I know that the names of the articles are confusing and I am trying to fix it, but the City of Bradford article is about the metropolitan borough and the Bradford article is about the settlement of Bradford, what you called the Town of Bradford. You can add this information to the City of Bradford article and the Thornton, West Yorkshire article but not to the Bradford article any more than I could add stuff about Queensbury having the highest school in England. -- Q Chris (talk) 11:28, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
Unfortunately Chris that isn't the case,the page doesn't just cover the Town of Bradford,it covers the City boundary up to 1974.In fact the objection to my original Bronte edit was that Thornton had been added to the City in the 1974 local goverment reorganisation,that is plainly wrong.I also added a piece about Sir Titus Salt,a lord mayor of Bradford and at the time the biggest employer with five mills in the town which was also removed,and although most people associate Saltaire with Bradford it wasn't part of the City until 1974 so although i don't agree with that edit if you use the same template for both as daft as it may seem Titus Salt and his wonderful village can't be added to this page,but the Bronte sisters birth place should be.Bradford Guitar Boy (talk) 11:50, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
Where do you get that it covers the area pre 1974 from? There are many areas with a complete history separate from Bradford that were incorporated before that. -- Q Chris (talk) 12:52, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
Where on earth have i said Thornton was incorporated into the City in 1882,it was incorporated into the City of Bradford in 1899,two years after Bradford was given City status.The original objection to my edit was because they thought Thornton had been incorporated into the City in 1974,i believe the same objection was raised about my edit on Sir Titus Salt and his superb village in Saltaire which was removed .Obviously the Bradford page does not just cover the old town boudaries.Bradford Guitar Boy (talk) 18:15, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
My error, I have removed that comment. What do you think that the difference between the Bradford page and the City of Bradford should be? If you are going to include any things that were not in the settlement of Bradford you might as well merge the articles. -- Q Chris (talk) 18:36, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
Should buildings outside the historic town of Bradford be included here rather than in the Bradford Metropolitan area article?
As this discussion seems to be going in circles I am making a Request for Comment to see if we can get some more experienced opinions on this subject. Meanwhile do not go back to edit warring on the article page. I am removing the Brontes for now as there is no consensus for including it.--Charles (talk) 12:56, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
I have full protected the page as the edit warring continues. Please contine discussion and see if the RfC provides any positive input into the discussion from uninvolved people. Keith D (talk) 12:26, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
User Nilfanion came up with an interesting document, a settlement study that lists Addingham, Bingley, Burley, Denholme, Haworth, Menston, Queensbury, Silsden, Steeton with Eastburn, Thornton, Baildon, Cottingley, Cullingworth, East Morton, Harden, Oakworth, Oxenhope and Wilsden as areas outside the Bradford settlement . It also has a map on p57 that might help define what the Bradford Settlement area does cover. Section 6.1 could be useful:
6.1 The Bradford Urban Area is the built up area (the inner city and suburbs) surrounding the City Centre, the area of Shipley, and also the area of Baildon south of Otley Road. The Green Belt surrounding this area acts as its outer limit.
This is interesting because it includes Baildon and Shipley, which I would have thought would have been outside the area. -- Q Chris (talk) 12:47, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
Obviously i can only speak for my extended family but we all come from the Bingley,Wilsden areas of the Bradford district originally and we all look on ourselves as Bradfordians.I would simply have one page that covers the whole area,with basically the same stuff that's on the Bradford page but simply expand it to cover the City as it is today.The Bradford page is pretty good, i had a quick look about a year ago and was pretty disgusted with the page,but simply didn't have the time to try and edit it.
Imo it would be far better if expanded.Bradford Guitar Boy (talk) 18:08, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
where they could be properly referenced and mention the truly notable where appropriate in the text. --J3Mrs (talk) 07:16, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
Good idea. That would "clean up" this article which seems to have too many sub-sections. I have reduced a few but needs more work. --Harkey (talk) 08:14, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
I've edited the notable Bradfordians section with a insert of Sir Titus Salt,he was the largest employer in Bradford and was later a Lord Mayor of the town and an elected MP.BradfordPal1 (talk) 11:57, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
Regarding the crime issue, the current article states that the Reform Survey rated bradford 1st for gun crime in the UK. While the report did actually do this, they incorrectly used crime totals for the whole metropolitan city (City of Bradford pop 497k) but applied this to the 293,717 population area. The result was that all crime stats were doubled! They made exactly the same mistake for Leeds, but eventually issued an ammeneded report in June, which made Leeds drop from 2nd place in the country for crime, to around 14th. However, they did not ammend the mistake for Braford, but if you ring Reform up, their customer services will tell you that they did infact make the same mistake with Bradford. It seems because not as much fuss was made about bradford, they didnt re-publish a 3rd report with the ammended data. (damage limitation?)
The problem is, there is no sources specifying this error, other than contacting Reform. However, if you read the full report, the last few pages, it shows data sources, showing the crime data to be from the wider metro, but applying this mistakenly to the inner settlement.
Anyone got a suggestion on what to do? One idea is to just remove the sentances about Reform, or to actually use data from ONS/HomeOffice. But Home Office data, just like with Leeds, is received from West Yorkshire Police, and no such crime data exists on the historical county borough area of Bradford. --Razorlax (talk) 01:29, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
I've removed the crime section as none of the other major City Wikipedia pages have them,it's inclusion seems like negative editing.BradfordPal1 (talk) 21:46, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
I'd not read the Nottingham page,that's quite a substantial piece,Bradford and Leeds are 10 miles apart,i'd have thought that the respective wikipedia pages should reflect both Cities fairly,both have crime problems yet only Bradford's is highlighted.Maybe see what the consensus comes up with.Thanks for the link,i wont remove the section again.BradfordPal1 (talk) 22:16, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
The Leeds article has some details under "Metropolitan district" and also in the City of Leeds article. It is obviously details that you would expect to find in the article, especially the riot details, to be balanced. We should not be removing text just because it is negative as we should be portraying both positive and negative things about the place. Keith D (talk) 22:47, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
I believe the Bradford page should portray exactly what the Leeds page does,both are major Cities,there is no mention of the 7/7 London bombers on the Leeds page,no mention of the Bradford policeman killed in Leeds while on duty....crime is mentioned in passing but has no heading,i believe there is a worse overall crime rate in that great City and as Bradford is in competition for jobs and goverment money with Leeds the Bradford wikipedia page needs to be edited fairly.I also believe the constant mentioning of Muslims on the Bradford page is odd,the same stuff seems to brought up on about four different headings,why?....there is also a large Irish connection in the City but that get's mentioned once....25% of Bradfordians today have Irish roots,i don't see that fact being hammered home.In 1851 the town of Bradford had the largest population of Irish Immigrants in Yorkshire.BradfordPal1 (talk) 02:31, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
The problem with this article
The problem with this article is that bits of information, some referenced, have been dumped just anywhere, even if there is a more appropriate place already containing the same information. Every editor who has added stuff has added "in Bradford" which surely isn't necessary. I intend to incorporate some notable citizens into the text and will be removing the unreferenced list soon.--J3Mrs (talk) 09:15, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
I agree, I noticed in the WikiProjects|Cities guidance that it suggests, if a Notable People section exists at all, it should be prose rather than a list. And long lists should be a separate article - which we already have. There is no point having people in the Notable People section if they have already been mentioned elsewhere in the article, as they have already been covered. Nick Watts (talk) 09:31, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
Any help would be appreciated in any bit of this article. I have looked at it so many times I can't see the wood from the trees. I suggested removing the list last week and there have been no objections.--J3Mrs (talk) 09:46, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
More confusion
Just to point out that some one has been changing occurrences of "Bradford" to "the City" in the article, again underlining the stupidity of the current article names. -- Q Chris (talk) 12:46, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
I have changed some of the multiple Bradford's to "the city to avoid tedious and boring repetition, is this a problem? It's quite obvious to me what I mean.--J3Mrs (talk) 13:33, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
I think it is a problem while we are referring to the City of Bradford Metropolitan district as the City of Bradford. It is not your edit that I criticise but the article names. If we maintain that "the City of Bradford" obviously and unambiguously refers to the metropolitan district (as some have in many discussions) then this implies that "the city" should not be used to refer to the settlement, as covered in this article. -- Q Chris (talk) 13:41, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
To avoid confusion I suggest whe City of Bradford Wards in Governance be removed as they are in the other article and not relevant here.--J3Mrs (talk) 15:56, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
My apologies for re-adding the info on Salts Mill + the Bronte birthplace. I was simply trying to add refs for info that was removed purportedly for lack of sources in the previous edit summary. Maybe I can be accused of being hasty and not reading this talk page, but I am certainly no sockpuppet of anyone!!--Harkey (talk) 11:02, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
I should have informed you that your additions were being subsumed in the ongoing edit war. Three IPs have now been used to re-add this text so page semi-protection may be needed.--Charles (talk) 13:43, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
Semi protection of what,i thought the Berlin Wall came down in the 80's.Anyone with half a braincell knows that Titus Salt and the Brontes are very notable Bradfordians.BradfordPal1 (talk) 18:48, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
I wasn't actually making a personal attack,i was just pointing out that you don't have to be Einstein to know that the Bronte sisters and Sir Titus Salt are four notable Bradfordians, the idea that a piece regarding these four Bradfordians should lead to the Bradford page being semi protected imo smacks of the Soviet Union at it's best...it also makes no sense to call the couple of paragraphs my son wrote vandalism,now i'd call that a personal attack.BradfordPal1 (talk) 20:29, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
It becomes vandalism when it is persistently reinserted against consensus of several experienced editors, inspite of blocks and using sockpuppet acounts.--Charles (talk) 20:39, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
I'm sure Stalin used the same argument.I've read the Bradford page,it's a misrepresentation,the mentioning of the crossbow killer being a prime example,the irony of mentioning on the Bradford page a person of no worth born in Dewsbury who got rid of the body parts of his victims in Saltaire compared to Sir Titus Salt who was i believe born in Morley, was Lord Mayor of the Town of Bradford,i believe he was also the biggest employer in the town around 1853,who then went on to build his world famous village in Saltaire,somehow he doesn't get mentioned.It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.Having had a quick scan on the Leeds page,i notice there is no mention of the Leeds policeman(who lived in the Bradford district) killed on the streets of Leeds on it's page nor not a single mention of that City being the home of the biggest mass murderers the UK has ever known.BradfordPal1 (talk) 07:20, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
The couple of paragraphs my son posted were verified. It's local knowledge in regards to Sir Titus Salt and the Bronte Sisters,i believe my son did make a couple of mistakes in his early posts on this page but got in touch with Bradford Council who then corrected him on the dates Thornton was incorporated into the City of Bradford.BradfordPal1 (talk) 07:20, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
Surely the wall would never have come dowm with that attutude.I also mentioned that the couple of paragraphs written by my son were verified.I don't actually believe verification was the problem,maybe if i'd done a piece on the Yorkshire Ripper it would have been better recieved.BradfordPal1 (talk) 07:59, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
Seems like there's been an edit to the top of the Bradford page...strange ,one of many odd things going on in regards to the Bradford page.
Hopefully whoever has the ability to edit the page will remove it....
The two paragraphs my son wrote are in no way shape or form vandalism...the wikipedia Bradford page is not a true representation of the City of Bradford and is actually damaging it's image.
The Brontë sisters were born in Thornton which was incorporated into the City of Bradford in 1899 , but wrote most of their novels while living at the Haworth Parsonage (which is now a museum owned and maintained by the Brontë Society), when their father was the parson at the adjacent Church of St. Michael and All Angels. The house in which the Brontë sisters were born in is situated on Market Street Thornton,Bradford (Charlotte-1816,Emily Jane-1818 and Anne-1820) is a grade11 listed building,one of 5,800 in Bradford and can be visited on the way to Haworth parsonage around 5 miles away. To the North of the City lies the UNESCO World Heritage site at Saltaire,the village was built in 1853 for his mill workers by the Bradford mill owner Sir Titus Salt.Sir Titus Salt was the largest employer in Bradford at the time and also became Lord Mayor of the Town.There is a superb statue of Sir Titus situated in the newly refurbished Roberts Park in Saltaire.BradfordPal1 (talk) 18:47, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
It seems like my post's have been edited lol
As i said in my last post which disappeared,the vandalism is actually being done by the people responsible for the Bradford page,obviously you don't know my son but he's no vandal and is not disruptive,he was simply trying to improve the information on the Bradford landmark section as i am.The Bradford page as it stands is a misrepresentation of the City and a total disgrace.I would imagine that some people who visit the City look on the Bradford wikipedia page for information on where to visit in the City,to not have the birth place of the Bronte Sisters included or the UNESCO World Heritage site at Saltaire IS QUITE SIMPLY MADNESS and a total disgrace.BradfordPal1 (talk) 20:03, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
It seems that an edit war is again going on. Further additions of Brontë / Salt info against consensus will result in the article being locked and sanctions against those concerned. BradfordPal1, I would refer you to WP:MEAT, which you would do well to read. You yourself stated the position, that the Brontë's were born in Thornton, which was not incorporated into Bradford until long after they died. Brontë info belongs in the Thornton article, and Salt's info belongs in the Saltaire article. This is the established consensus of a number of editors. Mjroots (talk) 20:37, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
I meant what I said, which is why I've blocked the offender for 24 hours after a reversion of my rollback. Mjroots (talk) 20:51, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
I have removed both Salt and yet again the Brontes. I have also moved the Bingley Music Festival to Bingley. I did however add a bit of history about Bradford and renamed some headings.--J3Mrs (talk) 07:10, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
I've just been reading the demographics section and i believe the last figures on that section are for the whole metropolitan district.Those statistics can't be for the old City in regards to people of asian origin,101,967 is around 20% of 500,000 which is more or less the population of the whole district.I believe Keighley has been included.BradfordPal1 (talk) 18:14, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
How come this misleading stat hasn't been removed yet, it's plainly the figure for the whole district including Keighley.
'An estimated 101,967 people of Asian origin reside in the city,[41] representing around 20.5% of the city's population'BradfordPal1 (talk) 14:16, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
I've added the correct totals for each ethnic grouping into the Demographic section and removed this sentence....... 'An estimated 101,967 people of Asian origin reside in the city,[41] representing around 20.5% of the city's population'......... which should be on the City of Bradford page.BradfordPal1 (talk) 23:54, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Recent History
Article says: After World War Two migrants came from Poland and Ukraine and since the 1950s from Bangladesh, India and particularly Pakistan[19].
Souce says: The most recent migrations to Bradford, which took place from the mid-1950s onwards, also brought the largest influx of people to the city. These migrants came from Pakistan and from the New Commonwealth countries in Africa, the Caribbean and Asia.
Why is there no mention of German Jewish wool merchants on the Little Germany page?The whole area is named after the migrants who set up businesses in the area. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.207.205.240 (talk) 19:16, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
I've added a bit of information to the Industrial Revolution section regarding the migration to Bradford of German Jews in the 19th century.BradfordPal1 (talk) 12:58, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
Why revert such an important piece of information about Bradford's history in regards to the German Jews migration to the town.BradfordPal1 (talk) 13:29, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
I have no idea why this information was removed other than your contentious editing of other aspects of this article.--J3Mrs (talk) 13:51, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
Just like to thank whoever updated the little piece i added about the German Jewish migrants in regards to their drive in building Little Germany and Bradford's wool industry and textile exports.Superb.BradfordPal1 (talk) 17:54, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
I'd added around ten names of German Jewish extraction to the notable Bradford list,they've been all removed except for the two on the main page,could you revert the page to the original with the names added.Thanks.BradfordPal1 (talk) 22:53, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
I have remove all of the entries from the list which are non-notable by virtue of not having a wiki article. Create the articles on them before adding entries to the list. Keith D (talk) 23:51, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
In the case of William Rothenstein there was no wikilink but the name was linked to an external link so I assumed that they did not have an article. Each entry should have an article for the name to link to and a reference to a reliable source that shows that they have a connection to Bradford. Keith D (talk) 17:31, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
I'll have a go at producing a wiki link for each name,i'm new to this so it'll probably be one link per day,once i know how to go about it.Where do you get information in regards to producing a wiki page?BradfordPal1 (talk) 21:16, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
For existing articles just put double square brackets around the article's title. No underscores are needed.--Charles (talk) 21:42, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
Craven is also a ward of Bradford Metropolitan Council. There are two Thornton villages with Bradford post codes. I propose that one of the Bronte sisters, (Anne), has born in Thornton "on the outskirts of Bradford" tagged on to her Bradfordian list info . Of course the Thornton link would stay.BradfordPal1 (talk) 18:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
At the risk of opening an old debate this would only belong in the City of Bradford area, which covers Bradford Metropolitan District, and not this article that only covers the settlement. -- Q Chris (talk) 06:49, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
OK, that makes sense. Wouldn't the discussion be better on that article though?
Obviously the list covers all of the City of Bradford, that said there are two Thorntons withinn a fifteen mile radius of Haworth both with Bradford post codes, to add to the confusion Craven is also a ward of the Bradford Met Council, it seems to me that not to stipulate which one is the Bronte birthplace once again does wikipedias reputation no good, this sort of slack editing isn't good enough. The Thornton village link is irrelevant in regards to users that don't click onto it.BradfordPal1 (talk) 11:09, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
The only one confusing the issue is User:BradfordPal1 and he seems determined to confuse everyone else to get his own way.--J3Mrs (talk) 12:12, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
If there was more than one in West Yorkshire the dab on Thornton, West Yorkshire would be something else. There is no other Thornton in the Gazette that fits - post codes mean nothing in terms of geography and are just for post office convenience. Keith D (talk) 12:29, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
Post codes mean nothing, i guess Craven being a Bradford ward means nothing either and of course that's in West Yorkshire, obviously we need other imput besides you two else we have a consensus of two, once again. I guess having listened to so many friends pouring scorn on wikipedia and the editing of it, and having stood against such across the board rubbishing of it's pages, this is yet another example of no common sense being used, which only adds more fuel to such views. BradfordPal1 (talk) 10:26, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
You can make that a consensus of three again. Thornton-in-Craven is in North Yorkshire and is called Thornton-in-Craven. Thornton is in West Yorkshire and is called Thornton. There is a link to the article on the Thornton in question for anyone who is confused, so I see no need for any further disambiguation in the article. Furthermore Thornton-in-Craven's nearest main town is Skipton. Skipton is not covered by the List of people from Bradford so there is no reason to suppose Thornton-in-Craven would be.Nick Watts (talk) 11:01, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Got to say i'm very disappointed that the same three people have once again formed a "consensus" that can only be described as odd when looking at the geography of the area. Why have any cause for misunderstanding for those that don't know the area. In my opinion this isn't a consensus, but is actually a clique that is doing wikipedia no favours. 90.203.53.172 (talk) 11:48, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
Yikes, forgot to sign in, i wrote the above.BradfordPal1 (talk) 11:50, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
Make that a consensus of four. Thornton-in-Craven is in North Yorkshire and is called Thornton-in-Craven. Thornton is in West Yorkshire and is called Thornton. It's User:BradfordPal1's geography that's "odd".--Harkey (talk) 12:03, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
Yes, but there's also a ward in Bradford called Craven. I'm quite sure that could cause misunderstanding to some in regards to which Thornton is the Bronte birth place, especially to those that don't know the area.BradfordPal1 (talk) 12:15, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
I know there's a Bradford ward called Craven, but it doesn't take much nous to work out the right location, even for a person unfamiliar with the geography of the area.--Harkey (talk) 12:54, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
Also if someone was unfamiliar with the geography of the area I don't think that adding "on the outskirts of Bradford" would help them know which one anyway. -- Q Chris (talk) 15:08, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
Ian Astbury
I'd like to add Ian Astbury to the Bradfordian list. He is the lead singer with the Bradford band The Cult. He was born on Merseyside but lived his early adult life in Bradford from approximately 1979 to 1985.BradfordPal1 (talk) 12:23, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
It would be nice if this article could be protected from recent, persistent trolling from various IPs (probably the same editor).--J3Mrs (talk) 07:56, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
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Sorry to bring this up again but it continually confuses people. Why don't we just combine them like Birmingham, Newcastle upon Tyne, Liverpool, Sheffield, etc, have a redirect and start with text " is a city and metropolitan borough" like the rest. We can always put in the detail that the borough has city status. -- Q Chris (talk) 11:28, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
The reason those articles are combined is that the settlement and the district are approximately the same thing. That is not the case with Bradford and the others that have separate articles. With careful wording the confusion can be dealt with as per Salford, Greater Manchester and City of Salford which are both good articles. May be we should do what they have done there and have a dab page at Bradford and move the article to Bradford, West Yorkshire which is what was intended a couple of years ago for articles of the dual format. The roll out of this stalled though as the one doing it is not that active at the moment. Keith D (talk) 22:25, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Just passing by this page and not being a local, I would comment that this does seem to be an established policy: although how Birmingham is distinguished from Bradford (and Sutton Coldfield from Keighley etc) is a mystery. What I find wrong is a seemingly-precise statement such as "Bradford has a population of 293,717, making it the fourteenth-most populous settlement in the United Kingdom." That figure apparently refers to some ONS definition of an urban area but that is no more a "natural" or "correct" definition of the extent of Bradford than the local authority. It would be better in my view for an article named for a traditional urban settlement to be mainly historical and most of the material about the present day to be included under the City of Bradford article. But at present that is not the consensus so we have to switch between two articles to find the information we may be seeking. Sussexonian (talk) 22:51, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
Edit request on 24 October 2012
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Please change "The Bradford Dragons basketball team who currently play in the EBL2 plays home games at Bradford Sports college in the Trinity Green campus on Saturday nights. The team is coached by former England under 23 player Chris Mellor." to "The Bradford Dragons Basketball team currently play in the England Basketball League in Division 1 and are coached by former England under 23 player Chris Mellor." As says on the Bradford Dragons Website http://www.bradforddragons.co.uk/wp/94.168.255.62 (talk) 23:26, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
Done Thanks. I have done the change. I have left the cite tag as the home page of the team's web site is not really specific to use as a cite and I could not locate a suitable page on the site to use. Keith D (talk) 12:15, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
Early population figure
I have changed the figure under the Early History section to 6,393, a figure I found in the book - Sheeran, George (2005). The Buildings Of Bradford: An Illustrated Architectural History. Stroud, Gloucestershire: Tempus. ISBN0-7524-3584-1.. The previous figure of 16,000 appears to have come from the site, visitbradford. I favour the former as it is more precise and has a specific date. The latter, I would wager, either refers to the population of the borough as a whole, not the settlement of Bradford, and thus would be more appropriate for the City of Bradford article, or refers to a time later in the 19th Century. What do others think? Peaky76 (talk) 13:55, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
NPOV
The overall tone of the article is ridiculously positive, making Bradford sound like an earthly paradise. People who live there or know the city well won't be fooled by this, but outsiders will be seriously misled. Lets have a bit more balance people. --Ef80 (talk) 12:48, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
Religion Section
Hi, I noticed that the religion section it says 60% Christian, 16% Muslim, 13% no religion, 1% Hindu, 1% Sikh and 8% not stated. However, the section has 5 lines on Christian buildings, 2 lines on Hinduism, 1 line on Sikhism, 3 lines Judaism and 3 more lines on non-conformist Christians. Many people feel that Islam dominates Bradford, but this is not mentioned at all. Also, the Hindu population is described as sizeable, but the figures don't support this.
Can this section be considered for revision to obtain more balance? I apologise for not doing it myself, but I lack the knowledge required. I would like to draw it to someone's attention however. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.22.217.76 (talk) 17:04, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
Not done: Sorry, but to single out this one above all others listed in the Bradfordians section would be to give him undue weight. To get into the lead section, one really needs to have been world-famous for a long time. --Stfg (talk) 09:32, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
Bradford Hole
One of the main things mentioned in the media about Bradford is the Bradford Hole - the Westfield shopping centre that has remained little more than a hole in the ground for years. I bet bbc.co.uk (for example) would have dozens of stories on the subject. Surely worth a mention? --81.23.54.142 (talk) 23:24, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
Like many similar city articles, this article presents a ridiculously upbeat image of its subject. It's fine and laudable that Bradfordians should take pride in their city, but this is ridiculous. It's presented as heaven on earth, which I don't think is wholly accurate. --Ef80 (talk) 21:16, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
Bradford's population figure
Bradford's population is 522,452[11], the figure given on the Bradford page is for a boundary that no longer exists, it changed in 1974. If you look at both the City of Leeds and Leeds pages, both give exactly the same population, why should the City of Bradford and Bradford pages be any different, it doesn't make any sense and does the City of Bradford a disservice.Epicforest (talk) 20:41, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
The City of Bradford population should be greater than the Bradford population as it cover a greater area than the settlement. The problem is the Leeds page which should have a lower figure than the City of Leeds page. There is many problems over the Leeds page that needs to focus on the settlement and not on the wider borough. Material relevant to the borough needs moving from one to the other. The problem keeps getting a mention but there is no real impetus to sort out the problem. The problem is stirring-up the dormant users and IPs that caused all of the disruption on the page in the past. Keith D (talk) 22:27, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
Maybe a merging of both pages would end the problem so there is just one Bradford page and one Leeds page? I notice it's been mentioned before on the City of Bradford talk page. The old boundaries don't actually exist anymore, Looking at the new Leeds boundary sign just outside of Pool on the Harrogate road, shows how far Leeds has grown due to the 1974 boundary changes and the same can be said of Bradford with it's boundary sign between Steeton and Cross Hills on the Skipton Road.Epicforest (talk) 08:30, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
This has been mentioned and dismissed a number of times. The pages should remain separate as per other examples of this type of situation where the settlement and the borough are different things and cover different areas, including other settlements. The problem arises just because of naming rather than any other reason. Keith D (talk) 10:38, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
In the demographic section there is now three items saying exactly the same thing, there is a paragraph containg the population make up figures, a box containing the same figures as the paragraph and a pie chart containing the same figures as the box and the paragraph. I'm removing the pie chart.Bradford4life (talk) 12:57, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
Religion section
The figures have been updated in the box above in this section making the ones I've removed redundent.Bradford4life (talk) 11:17, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
The statistics were sourced. New figures are available from the 2011 census. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bradford4life (talk • contribs) 17:07, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
I'm in the process of taking photos of various Bradford landmark buildings, if no one else adds a picture of a mosque in the mean time I'll upload one and add a paragraph in regards to the Islamic faith.12:16, 1 September 2014 (UTC)Bradford4life (talk)
I've removed the muslim graph from the religion section, plainly there should be some reference to the Islamic faith on there but a graph regarding one section of the population make up of Bradford seems odd, I've never seen a Christian graph who are by far the biggest religious group in the city. Bradford4life (talk) 16:34, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
Ownership
A user (Bradford4Life) is assuming ownership of this page, reverting constructive edits without reason and inserting copyrighted images without rationale. '''tAD''' (talk) 00:10, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
That of course is not correct, I saw 'Bradistan' included in some text added to the Bradford page which made a mockery of the page. I'll get some pictures I've taken up loaded regarding the films, 'a fairy tale' and 'the railway children' to replace the posters which seem to be copyrighted.Bradford4life (talk) 01:06, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
I've restored it, as it's well sourced. Get over it, it's how Bradford is frequently seen.
As to your addition of "The Railway Children" posters, I just can't imagine what you're even on about. The book (AFAIR) has no specific connection to Yorkshire, the film was filmed where it was because that was one of the first couple of preserved steam railways available, and there's still nothing to connect Oakworth to Bradford. Andy Dingley (talk) 01:41, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
I'm removing the sentence with the word Bradistan in it. After all Leicester has a much bigger South Asian population without such a similar degrogatory term being used on it's page.Bradford4life (talk) 08:25, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
Bradford Park Avenue
Park Avenue have been playing in the Conference North for two seasons now. It's one league above the Northern Premier League. It may be worth an edit. I would do it but i don't know how — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.22.231.237 (talk) 12:11, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 13 December 2014
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Paragraph headed: Bradford Pals
The statistics given are quoted from an unreliable BBC source. The paragraph should be amended viz:
"On the morning of 1 July 1916 the Bradford Pals were in trenches opposite the village of Serre in Northern France. Out of a fighting strength of the 16th Battalion there were 527 casualties with 12 of their 22 officers killed. The 18th suffered 490 casualties. Of the casualties perhaps 1 in 4 died on 1 July or in the next few days from wounds sustained in the battle."
Sources: Hudson, Ralph, The Bradford Pals and Raw, David, The Bradford Pals.
Continuing: Incorrect information in the following paragraph: 2/6th and 3/6th were not in France at the time of the Somme. This paragraph should read:
"Other Bradford Battalions involved in the Battle of the Somme were 1st/6th Battalion (Bradford Territorials), The Prince of Wales's Own West Yorkshire Regiment, based at Belle View barracks in Manningham and the 10th Battalion of the Prince of Wales's Own West Yorkshire Regiment. The 6th Battalion first saw action in April 1915 at Neuve Chapelle before moving north to the Yser Canal near Ypres and then to positions near Thiepval on the Somme.[33] The 10th Battalion was involved in the attack on Fricourt. Middlebrook suggests that 10th West Yorks suffered the highest casualty rate of any battalion on the Somme on 1 July and perhaps the highest battalion casualty list for a single day during the entire war. Nearly 60% of the battalion's casualties were deaths."
Source: Middlebrook. M, 1 July 1916, the First Day on the Somme, page 268
Continuing: Next paragraph also incorrect. Both the WR artillery batteries were in France, not in Manningham
"The 1/2nd and 2/2nd West Riding Brigade Royal Field Artillery (Territorial Force) had their headquarters at Valley Parade in Manningham. They were joined by the Otley, Burley and Ilkley Batteries and crossed to France with the 6th Battalion West Yorks in April 1915. These Territorial forces were to remain close to each other throughout the war, serving in 49th Division."
(Information supplied by Bradford WW1 Group, Mechanics Institute, Bradford BD1 1SZ)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c)20:23, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
There is a serious doubt cast about the BBC figure(2,000) given for the Bradford Pals 16th, 18th battalion numbers, a new figure estimated locally is 1,394, I've used this and referenced it in the Bradford Pals section.Bradford4life (talk) 13:25, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Assessment comment
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Bradford/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
.
Inline references need switching to use {{Cite}} templates
Semi-protected edit request on 6 July 2015 Update To Bradford Manufacturers
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Bradford's textile industry has been in decline for many years and the city has suffered from de-industrialisation. Some areas of Bradford are among the worst levels of social deprivation in the UK,[59] with widespread pockets of exclusion, and rates of unemployment in some wards exceeding 25%.,[38] though other areas of Bradford are among the least deprived in the UK.[60] The economy is worth around 8.3 billion, making Bradford's economy a major powerhouse in the region and is forecast to grow to more than 9 billion by 2016,[61] contributing around 8.4% of the region's output, and making the district the third largest (after Leeds and Sheffield) in Yorkshire & Humber. The economy has diversified and the city is home to several major companies, notably in finance (Yorkshire Building Society, Provident Financial, Santander UK), textiles ( British Wool Marketing Board, Bulmer and Lumb Group), chemicals (BASF, Nufarm UK), electronics (Pace Micro, Filtronic), engineering (NG Bailey, Powell Switchgear), and manufacturing, (Acorn MobilityDenso Marston, Bailey Offsite, Hallmark Cards UK and Seabrook Potato Crisps). Supermarket chain Morrisons has its head office in Bradford as does water utility company Yorkshire Water.[62]
Acorn Publications (talk) 15:23, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
Insert Acorn Mobility before Denso Marston.
Not done Request is made by a COI PR editor who's is blocked. Seems to be part of a load of material to promote this stairlift manufacturer. FiddleFaddle08:56, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
Suggested Edits and Inclusions
The music section should include music festivals. Saltaire Festival, which this year had a main stage in Robert's Park, had thousands in attendance to watch live bands. Bingley Music Live also brings large touring bands to the region.
The film section needs L.A. Without a Map starring Vincent Gallo, Johnny Depp and David Tennant. Bradford features very prominently in this film.
The removal of Chantel McGregor from the music section. She is not notable. There are many far more notable signed and unsigned bands/musicians from Bradford who are not listed. Chantel being listed is nothing more than self promotion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.226.23.42 (talk) 17:13, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
Rather than your 'handwavium' non-specific "many far more notable", you might want to cite a few examples to back up your request for Chantel McGregor's removal. Having won over four consecutive years at the British Blues Awards, I'll be interested to see the more-notable examples I'm sure you're keen to provide.
I'd also note that asserting the inclusion is "self promotion" would require some evidence she, or someone involved/closely related to her, was responsible for her inclusion. --Brian McNeil /talk02:05, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
Chantel McGregor has won numerous UK blues awards including best guitarist and best young artist, she's also released two albums, toured extensively in the UK and Europe. Bradford4life (talk) 21:07, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
Your suggestions for music additions are really not relevant to this article. The Saltaire Festival probably should be mentioned in the Saltaire article, and the Bingley Music Live in the Bingley article. Otherwise they should be in the City of Bradford article. Keith D (talk) 14:32, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
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Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Keith D (talk) 01:10, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
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Population: Bradford vs City of Bradford
Sorry, I am confused. A redirection at the head of the main page makes the distinction between Bradford (small) and City of Bradford (larger) and yet both articles claim the same population of 580,000+. I know Bradford and it definitely does not have a population of half a million.Tylexman (talk) 17:06, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
Quite right. The 'demographics' section is a mess. The figures quoted seem to be for the whole metropolitan area and not for Bradford alone. The actual city of Bradford one may presume is overwhelmingly Asian in character. Cassandra. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.149.166.52 (talk) 12:20, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 17 February 2019
Bradford is twinned with Skopje, North Macedonia (since the Prespa agreement was ratified). Please correct the name of the country.
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At the end of the first paragraph of the "Religion" section (after the sentence which ends "...a legacy of the large Irish population that migrated to Bradford in the 19th century"), please could the following be inserted:
The patron saint of Bradford is Saint Blaise because of his patronage of wool combing, and his statue features on the Wool Exchange in the centre of the city. There is also a statue of the saint in St Cuthbert's Catholic Church, Wilmer Road, also noted as the location of the famous Stations of the Cross by Eric Gill.
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The way the name is said locally is not brad-ferd but more like brat/brad fud. The audio is a bit RP (non Yorkshire speaker) but fairly close, but the way it is spelt in IPA is wrong - that's more like an American would say it. It has a short, northern u in local pronunciation and no r. It's common in English place names to pronounce ford in this way (fud) but certain editors seem to be standardising these as fərd even though this is not how they're actually said. Could I request that we change the IPA to reflect what the audio is actually saying, and maybe get a local to pronounce the audio because the audio still sounds very southern to my ears. If you dig around on this you'll find that it's said more like ʊ - that's what's noted on the Yorkshire dialect wiki page.
As a life-long and current resident of Bradford, I can confirm this. /ˈbrædfəd/ⓘ. Further south there is more of an OR sound, but I'm not aware of anywhere in the UK, certainly not in England, that pronounces it Brad-ferd, and it does seem strange to have an American pronunciation on the article of a British city. Obviously, I'm not a RS, but there are plenty of examples of the proper pronunciation, including the inline results of Google search when using British pronunciation.
Please note that some of these sources default to the US pronunciation, and you will have to select UK to verify this claim. I am not currently able to make this edit, but I do believe it needs making. John Bullock (talk) 15:06, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
I'm not sure if my computer is playing up but the source for Bradford seems to cut off before the contentious phoneme. I mean, I have a quite professional audio setup. I could easily record the pronunciation in my native Bradfordian accent, but I'm not sure how that would be credible as anyone could claim they are from Bradford. Especially when there are so many reliable sources around the web. John Bullock (talk) 16:45, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
Putting an edit request on this. Obviously, as a native Bradfordian, I know the edit needs making. But I'm new here and not confident enough to be changing the opening line of semi-protected articles just yet. Especially when it seems so obvious that I worry I'm missing something. John Bullock (talk) 18:13, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
It seems odd to me that, given the large south Asian community, Muslims in particular, there is no discussion of the Muslim community in Bradford. It's as if it is being marginalized. AbuButterbean (talk) 12:51, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
Looking at the religion section, I agree there should be at least a sentence or two about the Muslim presence in Bradford. It would need to be reliably sourced, however. I have just done a quick Google and the top three results claimed there were 44, 105, and 96 mosques in Bradford respectively. This may be part of the reason why there hasn't been more information on the Bradford Muslim community added.
Bradford has never been a cathedral city. It got city status with neighbouring Kingston upon Hull and the city of Nottingham in 1897, by which time Sheffield and Leeds were cities without need of a cathedral although Sheffield has two Cathedrals. Bradford has a cathedral but that didn't garner it city status nor did Hull Minster give Hull a city status or Nottingham Catholic Cathedral. Leeds Minster didn't give Leeds city status neither. Notts Brad and Hull were given city status in recognition of the Queen's Jubilee. Leeds and Sheffield were cities years before.
So using cathedral city in Bradford when in fact it was during the move away from using cathedrals for city status is misleading. Salford has a cathedral and Manchester but they got city status through their county boroughs as did Cardiff and Birmingham. DragonofBatley (talk) 03:18, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
Article might need update ( "Economy" section is from 2018)
The Climate section says that the highest temperature was 32.2°C in August 1990. However, the table shows the highest was 33.9°C in July, but I was unable to find any source for this number and I would like to know what that number was sourced from and why not it is mentioned in the text paragraphs. 2A00:23C4:2318:F101:43C:290B:178:7AB (talk) 10:11, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
Indifferent, since you ask. Personally I marginally preferred the original: the narrower white space leaves more space for the images, and the inclusion of the mosque adds colour and variety (the City Hall and Wool Exchange are rather similar Victorian buildings, and the picture of the latter is underexposed). But this is a subjective matter of taste and an edit war isn't justified. Dave.Dunford (talk) 15:54, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
Echo Dragon. The whitespace is too severe and takes up far too high a proportion of the picture. City Hall is better composed in the new version. Cathedral is slightly better, with less whitespace maybe it can capture the full height and more architectural design. Skyline is the skyline, I mean there's not many ways to take a picture of a town from high up and capture anything relevant or distinctive. Cartwright Hall or St Georges Hall is a matter of opinion. I personally prefer Cartwright because it's a nicer composed photograph. The Wool Exchange is a good addition as it's important to the town itself. I think the Mosque is a nice inclusion on the original however - so I wonder if by losing the skyline we might retain all the featured items, and loss the inconsequential view of some rooftops. Koncorde (talk) 22:18, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
I much prefer the updated montage, a less simplistic approach to the picture arrangement is eye catching and the photos selected are potential tourist attractions and shine a light on the positive historical architecture of the city. Bradford4life (talk) 22:04, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
I'd say lose the skyline photo, add a new photo of Cathedral and mosque, keep the wool exchange, city hall, Cartwright hall and maybe st George's hall. But also sort out the white spacing. Bradford4life might like it but the other two editors agree on the white spacing needing sorting DragonofBatley (talk) 01:19, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
The new collection of pictures is preferable, i never liked the inclusion of the mosque which should be in the religious section, i also thought that collection was poorly put together and the inclusion of aka in the description seemed poor to me. All in all i think the new montage is by far the best.Epicforest (talk) 13:36, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
Isn't having a cathedral part of being a city even though Bradford becoming a city in 1897 but didn't have a cathedral until 1919. It's inclusion certainly had no religious connotations. Beautifulscarlet (talk) 15:53, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
If I could make a proposal to @Beautifulscarlet: (without being seen as offensive or canvasing). Why not use the same photos you have already included but use the 2021 collage photos of or a new photo of both the cathedral and city hall). So keep yours as is but change the Cathedral and City Hall ones to new ones as the one you have included already in the 2021 collage and cathedral front tower should be visible then a portrait panoramic which cuts the tower off?
I'll have a tweak of both and post it here as a proposed montage. Then other users and the OG author can comment on it. Give me a few moments and I'll post it. Note I won't post it as a creative photo. Just add it to the discussion before a pact could be agreed. DragonofBatley (talk) 16:54, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
One of them:
Proposed Bradford Montage 1
So I have included in that one: Bradford Wool Exchange, Bradford City Hall, Cartwright Hall, St Georges Hall, Bradford Cathedral, Bradford Skyline, Manningham Mills and Market Street, Bradford. Thoughts on that one would be good. Will post second one now: DragonofBatley (talk) 17:25, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
The picture top right in 2 is better covered in the skyline shot. If you putthe bottom left pic there it will avoid the rather unhappy meeting of two similar coloured buildings. I woud suggest then adding either the mills or the mosque in its place. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 17:49, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
I like both as is, lightening the top left picture of the bottom montage would be good. I obviously prefer mine but both those montages are far better than the one up at the moment. Beautifulscarlet (talk) 18:00, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
Like I said, I am not looking to put you down or offend. I think maybe following a similar pattern to the montages at Leeds, Sheffield, York and Lancaster. Might be worth a look at. I think the proposed 1 is the best as it covers your topics of interest and mine. The second is good but really only follows a set of five then seven photos. Again, I will remain impartial to others and respect others opinions and preferences. DragonofBatley (talk) 18:03, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
Proposal 1 is better, I think a small amount of white space would be useful as some pictures blend in with each other in both examples. Some of the shots need better composition to focus in on the object, but #2 in comparison is messy. The skyline in #1 (given the shift in focus and size) makes it somewhat redundant as it's (as previously mentioned, a common issue with such skylines) just some rooftops. In contrast something like the "City Park" would better sell both the modern cultural aesthetic and regeneration (such as this or this type thing). Koncorde (talk) 19:38, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
Wool ExchangeI made a lighter version of the underexposed Wool Exchange image, in case someone wants to use it. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:24, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
I've just read the Wikipedia page that you linked, it seems anyone can manipulate the stats anonymously that are used by Numbeo. Thanks for the link Gråbergs Gråa Sång. Beautifulscarlet (talk) 19:16, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
It seems Bradford got the same treatment as Lund and Malmo. Good that Linus Trulsson proved a great point about how bogus Numbeo is. Thanks for the Linus Trulsson link Gråbergs Gråa Sång Beautifulscarlet (talk) 20:39, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
Chaotic "Religion" chapter
Wouldn't it make MUCH more sense to put the '(christian!) saints Blaise and Cuthbert' into the 'christianity' section, best before the the part about the Roman Catholics, and after the catholics also add the piece about the (also christian, I believe?!) "Nonconformists" there ?!?
As it is now, it's suddenly christian saints between the Hindu and the Sikhs chapters, and more christian groupings suddenky at the end again, and the saints not even classified as belonging to which religion and confession.
Fixed. The absence of anything about Islam is another obvious failing of this section, as noted above, but I'm not qualified to write it. Dave.Dunford (talk) 13:43, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
Done Thanks for letting us know. Keith D (talk) 11:04, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Not done: Sorry, but to single out this one above all others listed in the Bradfordians section would be to give him undue weight. To get into the lead section, one really needs to have been world-famous for a long time. --Stfg (talk) 09:32, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 20:23, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
Not done Request is made by a COI PR editor who's is blocked. Seems to be part of a load of material to promote this stairlift manufacturer. Fiddle Faddle 08:56, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
Done. Thanks for reporting!--SkyGazer 512 Oh no, what did I do this time? 17:27, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
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Fixed. The absence of anything about Islam is another obvious failing of this section, as noted above, but I'm not qualified to write it. Dave.Dunford (talk) 13:43, 3 February 2022 (UTC)