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I recognize that this user page belongs to the Wikipedia project and not to me personally. As such, I recognize that I am expected to respectfully abide by community standards as to the presentation and content of this page, and that if I do not like these guidelines, I am welcome either to engage in reasonable discussion about it, to publish my material elsewhere, or to leave the project.


This is an archive of User talk:Lar from about 1 Apr 2006 through about 15 Apr 2006. Please do not comment here, use my current talk page for that, thanks. It is part of a series of archives, see the box at right for the list and to navigate to others.

An index to all my talk page archives, automatically maintained by User:HBC Archive Indexerbot can be found at User:Lar/TalkArchiveIndex.

Talk Page Archives
My post 2012 archived talk
Archive 79 1 December 2012 through 1 December 2013
Archive 80 1 December 2013 through 1 December 2016
Archive 81 1 December 2016 through 1 December 2018
Archive 82 1 December 2018 through 1 January 2021
Archive 83 1 January 2021 through 1 January 2023
Archive 84 1 January 2023 through 1 January 2025 ??
RfA Thank Yous
RFA Archive Howcheng (27 Dec 2005) through present
All dates approximate, conversations organised by thread start date


Languages

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(Beatnik programming language and User:R. Koot/Esoteric programming languages)

Hi, could you maybe expand a bit on why you believe this article should be kept (when I list it for deletion)? The reason why I'm not putting it on AfD yet is because I want several people to give good reasons to keep/delete certain articles, instead just voting Keep/Delete. Cheers, —Ruud 23:08, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I gave what I thought were sufficient, if terse reasons. But I'm glad you asked... For starters, I think estoteric programming languages are in general far more notable than their google rankings would indicate. I had a comparative languages class a long time ago and it's a side interest of mine and I've actually heard of this one and many of the others, although not all. To put my cards on the table, I'm inclusionist, although not strict (I think you'll find I vote delete more often than I do keep, strangely enough!). The key question is, will Wikipedia be a better place for having articles about every esoteric language (or, if merged together, articles about classes of languages, or articles about language inventors and their languages?) and I think the answer is an emphatic yes. Esoteric languages are far more intellectually important than high schools or 5 mile long state highway segments, for, after all, what can be said about one highschool typically can be said about another, yet we have thousands. I think every one of your languages listed should be kept, but I will probably only vote keep/merge on the ones I think most important, rather than all. Hope that helps explain things... I won't go so far as to say you're wrong in your campaign, but I do think you're misguided, as these are important, at least to me they are. (Again, I admit bias, I work for IBM, I program (partly, mostly what I do nowadays is architect) for a living, I have forgotten more languages than most people know, and I am web-friends with David MM, since we share an interest in LEGO and I started reading his comic well before I started contributing here. (in fact he was mentioning here there well before I started contributing here). Does that bias me? Perhaps. Or perhaps it makes me more fit to judge what's important about esoteric languanges than some of the lay people that will be voting. I dunno.) ++Lar: t/c 03:07, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, I have written a (hopefully clearer) set of reasons why most of these articles shouldn't be included in Wikipedia. Would you care trying to debunk some of my concerns, especially those about verifiability and the fact that the value that a Wikipedia article adds for someone interested in those languages. —Ruud 11:44, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Verifiability (and the more verifiable something is the more likely we are to get a high quality article). I agree with you in most part that Google isn't always the best indicator, but in areas of IT it's a pretty good one. For instance, if an esoteric language is used in teaching programming, the chances are it will be plastered all over the web because so many (most?) universities and colleges post syllabi (?) and lecture notes on the web these days. If it inspired other languages or was an important milestone it'll be mentioned in a thousand blogs. Do I think these languages should all be recorded for posterity somewhere? Absolutely, 100%. Is Wikipedia the place? For those which had some impact and which have adequate verifiable sources, yes, for the others, short of a mention, no. Don't ask me which are "yes" and which are "no" just yet as I wouldn't know where to start... it's the most detailed and involved AFD I've ever seen (and perhaps he shouldn't launch it today, right, as it might be considered a joke :)) If any of them do get deleted keep a note of which or remind me, and if I ever get off my lazy arse and launch a wiki of my own they could be moved over (another of my domain names is the quite wonderful parody name slashwot.com, where I planned to put a full-on IT wiki :-) ). --kingboyk 11:59, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
There is the Esolang Wiki[1], if you are not already aware of it. -- Donald Albury(Talk) 16:09, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This should all be refactored somewhere else, but since I don't quite know where... (I grant explicit (if unneeded, it's a wiki!) permssion for someone else to do so if they know where, just leave a note here) One of the issues I have with shunting things off to other wikis is that the articles people look for HERE don't have the info, and unless there is a lot of verbiage encouraging people to go look on the other wiki, how does the random seeker of information know to go look? I have seen people try to make pointers to other wikis more prominent, which then get shot down as "linkspam". Does esolang have an article here? If it did, would it survive AfD? BrickWiki, an ideal place for LEGO related info too detailed for here, does not have an article, and would not survive AfD in my view if it did, based on Alexa ranking. So I guess I don't quite buy it... ++Lar: t/c 16:15, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The "other wiki" thing was just my ramblings. Of course we should aim here to be broad in scope, but within our policies of verifiablity and with a measure of good sense. (Suitably vague as I haven't researched these languages yet :)) --kingboyk 18:02, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Here's a trial guideline. If the language can be executed (has an interpreter or compiler) and at least one person other than the author has created a program for it, it deserves at least a mention at the (hypothetical) Esoteric languages page, with enough info about it (characteristics, the info in R. Koot's chart, the external site link, etc.) for an interested party to determine if following the link to the external site is warranted or not based on why they are researching esoteric languages. If the author is notable enough to warrant inclusion for other reasons, then the language deserves a mention at the author's page as well. (with a redirect from the language name page to the esoteric lang page, or if on both, a disambig page left behind at the lang name page to both places) NOTE: A few languages that pass the above tests are not themselvess not enough to confer notability on an author, more than that is needed... Does that fly? I'm not opposed to merging. Just deletion outright. The sticking point is getting the info to stay on the esoteric lang page though, if the deletionists come in and start deleting, I would want to recreate the articles. ++Lar: t/c 18:24, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest adding links to the esolang wiki, dmm's home page, sean heber's home page, etc. to the external links section of the Esoteric programming languages article, that should allow people to find the stuff possible even easier than it is now. —Ruud 18:41, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Color schemes

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It's not too late to add a switch in there to change color schemes, what exactly did you have in mind? --Cyde Weys 05:38, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Are you unblocked now? Good... That was rather a naff block! I like white, if you see the real boxen on my user page, most of the wikipedia related ones are all the same muted scheme, all white with a thin blue outline... (cribbed from Essjay, by the way). But it's not really a necessary thing! I'm just tweaking you... I take it you did this in perl? see User:Lar/Sandbox2 for my first wikirelated perl project... still lots to do but it's coming along nicely. ++Lar: t/c 05:44, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Your page got vandalised in a lot of different ways (so far) today! I like this one [2]... but this one is good too: [3] ++Lar: t/c 15:12, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You got me!

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Ya eejit! I fell for it, thought maybe you'd corrected my formatting of the bullet points next to the image at the top of my user page but no... :-) Now I mention it, could you fix it? Lol, good job, I had a laugh at that and glad to see you didn't get blocked. (!) --kingboyk 11:49, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently Cyde (who wrote the boxen generator) DID get blocked, at least for a while... which is too bad really! I think I'm going to write an essay on the virtues of "lightening up" ++Lar: t/c 14:37, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
OK, see if you like it better now. I put the pic and the text in a table (tables are the cure for everything!)... it seems to resize okish ahtough it no longer left wraps below the image... ++Lar: t/c 14:44, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My (HereToHelp’s) RfA

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Thank you for supporting my RfA. I’m proud to inform you that it passed 75 support to 1 oppose to 2 neutral. I promise to make some great edits in the future (with edit summaries!) and use these powers to do all that I can to help. After all, that’s what I’m here for! (You didn’t think I could send a thank you note without a bad joke, could I?) --HereToHelp 12:09, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK, THIS is funny

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Jimbo's user page ++Lar: t/c 16:29, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for comments on Renault Alliance merge

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Lar- A hearty and sincere thank you for your contribution to the discussion on merging the Alliance article. Stude62 21:46, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No worries, mate... we actually had 3 of the darn things in the family at one point, 2 85 convertibles, white with red interior (like this one: http://www.webmycar.com/zonecar/webacarphoto.nsf/CF33235ED2CFDCB3C1256F55006A0410/$FILE/alliance.JPG except red not light blue) and red with beige interior, and an 86 2 door hatch... all 5 speeds. Not bad little cars except not very reliable. A Google search for images came up dry of ones that might be fair-useable except maybe this one: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/photos/1985_AMC_Alliance_W.jpg (which is from a government site) ++Lar: t/c 22:03, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Never heard of that model, but I had a Renault 11 Turbo and it went like the clappers! Actually I had two, and both of them got written off by other people crashing into me (and yes I did claim on their insurance). Considering that another friend nearly died in one I decided it must be an unlucky car so I didn't buy another :) --kingboyk 22:31, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well whaddya know?! The Alliance is an Americanised Renault 9 which is a Renault 11 with a boot. Fancy that! --kingboyk 22:34, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_The_Beatles#Song_Stubs

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Could you leave your yay/nay/comments at the above URL as soon as possible please Lar? We've had a few solo songs destubbed so I'd like to be clear what our policy is before I go changing the template. --kingboyk 21:59, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Another technical question. Do you know how to modify {{WPBeatles}} so that if it were to received a piped argument "category" it would change the word "article" to category? I.e. so that the same template could be plonked onto Category Talk pages. --kingboyk 22:47, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe. {{qif}} might be a way, or class Hidden structure. I'll look into it if you haven't sussed it, but it may be a while. Right now I am grabbing page HTML so I can do some coding while in the car tomorrow and Monday (without needing to be connected to the internet to fetch pages... my generator now uses the table text on the Categories page to get the categories to work on) and SUPPOSED to be writing up something for work... hahaha, so don't want to start hacking it now.... basically you want to emit some text if a parm is present and something else if it is not? Take a look at {{Infobox Bridge}} for example (of many templates) to see how they handle parm absence/presence there... And why are you asking ME? I don't know very much compared to some people. ++Lar: t/c 22:54, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well you seem to know a lot about these things. I'll look at the example you've given. Cheers! --kingboyk 22:57, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
qif is definitely the better way to do it. Heck, I think I'll just fix it. I know what to do now. ++Lar: t/c
Yes, looking at it now. I can probably do it too, looking at the instructions... so if you haven't started yet let me know. It's nearly bedtime and I'm not especially busy unlike your good self :) --kingboyk 23:06, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Good man! Category_talk:The_Beatles. --kingboyk 23:09, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's sorted. See Category:The Beatles films for an example usage (which is wrong, since it should go on the talk...). It was faster to do it than to whinge about not having time, silly me. ANY word can go there in the first arg, not just "category" so if we wanted to mark templates as part of the project, we could. Just say {{WPBeatles|template}} or whatever ++Lar: t/c 23:13, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
er, not QUITE sorted, I broke the articles. I am going to fix it right now though. ++Lar: t/c 23:17, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
OK, NOW it's sorted. Plus I added it to a lot of categories (may have missed some) and the portal talk (changed it there) After I finished I realised it probably would be faster to use WP:AWB ++Lar: t/c 23:44, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Time?

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Hey mate. No - this isn't a comment about a Pink Floyd song.. but I was wondering if I was going a bit crazy, or has the time stamps in Wiki not taken account of the change yet..? --Mal 01:15, 2 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

which change? I don't know much about it, but I think time is driven by your preferences? Check here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#prefsection-4 ... Maybe try asking on WP:VP? Signature timestamps, I think, are UTC... ++Lar: t/c 01:26, 2 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Right - got it! It just struck me that I don't even know what country you're from Lar! But here in the UK, the clocks have already gone forward. My girlfriend (who lives in the USA) has just informed me that the clocks go forward there at a later date for some reason! I think they go forward there tonight if I'm not mistaken. I've no idea what UTC is tbh.. Universal Time .. something..? Cheers anyway :) --Mal 01:40, 2 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I live in the US at UTC +5... although I'm an anglophile so I let my idioms run toward how you lot talk a bit... As for what UTC is, well... there's this neat thing called Wikipedia, perhaps you've heard of it??? (Grin, duck, run)!!! It can answer a lot of stuff. It tells me that UTC == GMT, more or less... ++Lar: t/c 01:55, 2 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Boxer rebellion

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Heh, thanks for the boxfoolery. I was fond of that gag; was hoping someone else would hit my page with it. ;-) Mindspillage (spill yours?) 08:24, 2 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you

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Hello Lar, how are you? Thanks for your support in my RFA. The final vote count was (88/3/1), so I am now an administrator. Thank you for your kind comments, I am very humbled by your vote of support. Please let me know if at any stage you require assistance, or if you have comments on how I am doing as an administrator. Once again thank you and with kind regards Gryffindor 18:34, 2 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think that's a first

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I've never seen a Panderichthys vote, but I'm not surprised you had something to do with it. ;) pschemp | talk 01:35, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well it DOES have "pander" in the name, and I've been accused of being a pander-er, er... er... Maybe it will start a trend? ++Lar: t/c 01:55, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Hello Larry, did you finally manage to use the Lupin's navigation tool on BrickWiki ? I've tried to use what you put in you monobook.js there on my wikia page but it does'nt work... Would you have an idea ? Thanks ! --Henrique Diaz 11:10, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As of now, no. I tried but then like Kiki something else shiny distracted me and off I flitted. I may come back to it but so far I was not able to get ANYTHING in my monobook.js to work. So it's not Lupins code, it's something else I am doing wrong there. Try a small mod first so you know you can make changes that show up? ++Lar: t/c 11:12, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for you answer. Things work on my monobook. I've also tried tried to create simple things on BrickWiki:User:Henrique_Diaz/monobook.js and it works well ! (I think you can try the editing tools I've put, you should see they work well). So it's a matter of convenience between Lupin's code and non-wikipedian wikis in my opinion... --Henrique Diaz 12:02, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

RFA Thanks

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Hi Lar. Thank you for your support vote on my RFA. The final result was a successful request based on 111 support and 1 oppose. --CBDunkerson 17:49, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Did You Know?

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...that the Beatles project had another appearance on DYK, followed in the very next template by The KLF's Justified and Ancient? I'm more excited by the latter, as it's harder to get a niche band onto the front page I would have thought :-) But, of course, it would have to be one of the KLF articles I didn't write! :P --kingboyk 18:14, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pretty rocking... I got another article up there recently too... don't worry, you'll get more soon enough. ++Lar: t/c 02:28, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Doesn't bother me. I'm pretty pleased actually, another high quality editor has come along and started working on KLF related articles. We have most of the important articles blue now and some really nice content (of which Shag Times is the newest). Very good indeed and I really think The KLF can get to featured status one day :) Enjoying your holiday? --kingboyk 02:33, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's always great to see someone turn up, isn't it?... holiday is so so. I actually have been working on the classification tables a bit and making some progress... it's slow going though. ++Lar: t/c 02:46, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My RfA

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Hello Lar/Archive 4: Thank you for supporting me in my RfA, which passed with a final tally of 77/3/0. I hope I can perform at the standards expected for administrators. If I make any mistakes, or you need anything, please let me know. Prodego talk 01:18, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lar-ness

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It's high time you were nominated for adminship. You need to come up with some real good excuses real fast why I shouldn't nominate you if you want to get out of it this time. I would, however, prefer that you just say you'll accept. I have oodles of confidence in your abilities, if you need any convincing. :-) Dmcdevit·t 02:16, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Let's talk about it via email but I have several excuses... drop me a line? Or I'll just IM you. ++Lar: t/c 02:25, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Esperanza Newsletter, Issue #2

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The Barnstar Brigade is a new program aimed at giving more very deserving yet unappreciated users barnstars. It will officially start on 2006-04-09, but signing up is encouraged before this date:
"Here in Wikipedia, there are hundreds of wikipedians whose work and efforts go un-appreciated. One occasionally comes across editors who have thousands of good edits, but because they may not get around as much as others, their contributions and hard work often go un-noticed. Sadly, these editors often leave the project. As Esperanzians, we can help to make people feel appreciated, be it by some kind words or the awarding of a Barnstar. A project the size of Wikipedia has thousands of editors, so there are plenty of people out there who deserve recognition, one just has to find them. The object of this program is not to flood editors with Barnstars, but to seek out people who deserve them, and make them feel appreciated."
The Stress alerts program aims at identifying users who are stressed, alerting the community of thier stress and works in tandem with the Stressbusters at trying to identify causes of stress and eliminating them.
Information
Welcome to the second issue of the new format Esperanza Newsletter - we hope you still like it! This week, it was delivered diligently by our new dogsbody. MiszaBot (run by Misza13): any execution complaints should go to him. Content comments should be directed at the Esperanza talkpage. Thanks!
  1. The next elections: Approval voting as before and, also as before, an previous leadership member can run. Please submit your name for voting in the relevant section of this page. Voting starts on 2006-04-23 and ends on 2006-04-30. There will be three places up for grabs as KnowledgeOfSelf is leaving Wikipedia. Please see the previously linked page for full details.
  2. The Code of Conduct is now ready for extensive discussion! Specific comments should go to the Code of Conduct talk page, discussion of having one at all should be directed to the main Esperanza talk page.
  3. The current process for accepting proposals for new programs has been deemed fine. All Advisory Council members and the Admin Gen are to endevour to be bold when viewing discussion. If they feel that consensus has been reached, they will act accordingly.
A plea from the editor...
The propsed programs page is terribly underused! Please leave any comments, good or bad, on the page, to help us determine the membership's thoughts on the ideas there.
Signed...

U.S. Army Transportation Museum

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a note to myself in case there isn't an article already. Google maps: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=300+washington+boulevard,+newport+news,+VA&ll=37.165036,-76.575587&spn=0.003005,0.005246&t=h Their site: http://www.transchool.eustis.army.mil/Museum/ExhibitsIndex.htm

Regarding The Extra Space Topic

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Yes that is EXCATLY what I mean, thank you. Wait, if you think that I want the Extra Space deleted, say in all the current articles, I believe that might be a too big of a task to do, but if the program could be programed so that it NO LONGER, I stress NO LONGER CREATES, or INCULDES white space, 'that's better'.

Please leave one if you'd like more clarification on this issue. You could also contact me iooiioioo@hotmail.com [since they haven't instituted the option to delete your account, made their own licence, or the GNUL hasn't changed yet, I haven't signed up].

thanks

24.70.95.203 19:29, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mile marker

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Wow! A mile marker - that is probably one of the most meaningful edits I've ever received on my talk page. Thank you very much - it really means a lot to me. I was out for the last few days, but I do hope something good comes out of it. See you around the Wiki! --HappyCamper 22:31, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You're very welcome, it was a great thing you did! ++Lar: t/c 15:48, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for this too [4] - I wonder how you came across that user? If you see him around, give him a hand - he's still learning how to wikify articles and such at the moment, and is steadily improving his skills. --HappyCamper 19:59, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Saw your comment about it somewhere (Mindspillage's talkpage??? I forget) and dug into it. BTW, I see you and my friend Kingboyk may not be 100% seeing eye to eye at the moment on your mentorship attempts, anything I can do to help? ++Lar: t/c 20:36, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm a bit confused about the last part of your post...As far as I'm aware of, only you and Cambridge know about Merlinus - he's a pretty quiet editor. --HappyCamper 22:17, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I was trying to be too obscure... I was referring to a different editor in that last bit. Aren't you mentoring an editor that was banned? I can't seem to find what I saw now... Maybe it's all in the past too, I dunno. Maybe I'm thinking of someone else? ++Lar: t/c 22:28, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If it was something you saw on my talk page, it's User:Hamster Sandwich. The banned user was still blocked last time I checked, however (and given his comments about 9/11 deaths I can't say that's a bad thing quite honestly). HappyCamper has appeared chez kingboyk too but in happier circumstances :) --kingboyk 22:41, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Man I'm senile!!!! So much for vacations clearing the brain. Well anyway Steve, if there's anything I can do, please just ask. ++Lar: t/c 22:44, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You couldn't lend me twenty quid could you? :-) How was the holiday? You're back now (or off somewhere else for work) I take it? --kingboyk 22:47, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
What's your Paypal address, mate? I'll get you that straight away. I'm back at home, but on holiday for today... start up again tomorrow. Just sitting around listing things on eBay, thinking about articles (I took a hellacious number of piccies of equipment at the U.S. Army Transportation Museum... (if red, I haven't done the article for it yet), and uploaded one already for use in M29 Weasel) and working on my perl code. The merging existing classification tables is harder than I thought it would be but I plan to crack it before going live... What about you? ++Lar: t/c 22:57, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

<--As far as on-wiki things go, continued work on The KLF (in a more awesome shape now than I'd ever dared imagine, with all important links blue), and - as you'll no doubt see at some point - lots of pontificating at the Beatles WikiProject (including a plan for tackling The Beatles vs History of the Beatles). Classified a few more articles too. --kingboyk 23:51, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"The" Beatles

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Hi Lar. I'm planning an AWB run shortly to put the relevant Beatles' singles into a new Category:Parlophone singles. I'm thinking I may as well fix occurences of "the Beatles" at the same time. However, I'm really not convinced there are no exceptions to the rule. Comments? --kingboyk 00:06, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not convinced there are NO exceptions either. My suggestion would be to queue them up for changing but spend the few seconds to read the context and downcheck the change if it doesn't make sense. Where's this new category explained, I think I'm missing something! (Also, could all the Beatles' singles just be put in by putting The Beatles Singles category in to Parlophone singles, instead of editing each one?? or do only some go in there?) ++Lar: t/c
Only some, as some were on Apple (technically Parlophone but wth!) and I daresay there may be a few US only singles, oddities, etc. The Parlophone category is explained on WT:Beatles. Categorising singles by label is something only I have done so far, but it makes the same level of sense to me as categorising albums by label which is already standard.
Of course I check my edits with AWB before saving them, but I need to have some idea of what I'm checking for! :) I'll see how it goes, if it proves too difficult I'll abandon that part of the AWB process and it can be done in another run. --kingboyk 00:45, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I meant trying to read the sentence where you found "the Beatles" to see if it should be capitalised or not... ++Lar: t/c 01:23, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Lol, I know that mate, but if I don't understand what the exceptions are may as well have a monkey do the job! (and some would say that's exactly what you're gonna get). --kingboyk 01:28, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, one is if there's a possessive on the end, no? ("we went round to the Beatles' houses to see if they would give us their grass clippings") Other than that there are not many, I don't think. I suspect you can spot them. And if you change a few too many? It's a wiki. Someone will fix them. ++Lar: t/c 01:37, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A KISS Rfa Thanks

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Thank you, I've been promoted. pschemp | talk 01:09, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Categories

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A new one for the list: Category:Paul McCartney singles. --kingboyk 01:59, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Going forward, stick it in the table here: Wikipedia:WikiProject_The_Beatles/Categories. My code reads that table directly. ++Lar: t/c 02:30, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That one had somehow escaped my watchlist (despite me creating it). Thanks for the reminder. Looks like Mr Starkey is missing a "singles" category too, sigh. --kingboyk 02:34, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I confess I don't quite get the singles vs songs thing... why there even needs to be two categories. but it seems the norm so.. ok. ++Lar: t/c 02:39, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Same here. I think the norm is probably bad - questionable at least; but since it is presently the way things are done, I don't want readers to not be able to find Macca's singles. (In my other big project I've created Category:KLF songs today for the same reason). --kingboyk 02:48, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Robot Ate Me

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Can you expand the intro and description section of The Robot Ate Me? The article consists mainly of the discography section(s). Have they had ann special influence on their genre of music? RJFJR 15:08, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

(replied to on RJFJR talk page, as I requested threads be kept together) ++Lar: t/c 15:09, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Icarus071

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Icarus071 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) I've given that user a final warning regarding spam. If you see him at it again please let me know and I'll block him. He's had enough warnings now and he's clearly here solely to promote his website. --kingboyk 16:22, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nod. Saw that. I probably would have tried again with the gentle persuasion (being a bit more lenient) but you're probably right. ++Lar: t/c 16:50, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you

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 Thank you!
Hello Lar/Archive 4. Thank you for your support in my RfA! It passed with a final tally of 91/3/5. I am quite humbled and pleased by the community's show of confidence in me. If you need help or just want to talk, let me know. Cheers! -- Fang Aili 說嗎?

english-football.org

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I think one of the Head Honchos should get on their case pretty sharpish Lar, I asked them politely to link back to Wiki, but it looks like they are just pinching all our football articles. Cheers, Lion King 23:52, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

==Welcome to VandalProof== Thanks for your interest in VandalProof! You've been added to the list of authorized users, and feel free to contact me or post a message on VandalProof's talk page if you have any questions. AmiDaniel (Talk) 00:14, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"The program also gives users the ability to {{prod}} or nominate articles, images, and redirects for speedy deletion" - that'll in come handy Lar! hehe. --kingboyk 03:03, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Um, dude, you put the prod tag on my talk page! ([5]) I don't want my talk page deleted, but thanks for the thought just the same. And NO, I am NOT a deletionist. (for proof, see Talk:The Robot Ate Me....) But if something truly NEEDS it I don't shirk away. ++Lar: t/c 03:36, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Whoops! Sorry about that. Have you tried this tool yet? --kingboyk 03:46, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Not yet. Soon. Probably tomorrow nite. It's bedtime for me soon tonite (just got to DTW from GRR)... ++Lar: t/c 04:01, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

RfA Questions

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Do you think my new set is a little long, 14 questions are a few but its nothing in comparision to the 38 I recieved :) -- Tawker 02:37, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There may be one or two in there that are redundant, but not really too long I guess. I thought 38 was definitely over the top though! See WP:DFA ... if enough people ask good questions it will be a lot like that. Which would be a good thing. (see also Wikipedia:Discussions_for_adminship/Lar ++Lar: t/c 03:38, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hammermill

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Sorry about that. On a quick fly-by I only saw the deletion, and didn't realise it was a mucked up addition. Noisy | Talk 17:03, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No worries. I'll go you one better, I posted a plea on another user's page for more material for that article without realising there was more material there (I.E. forgot to check the history of the article)... thinking that was IT for content.) I'm glad you reverted it or I would not have realised. ++Lar: t/c 17:16, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, thanks for the query. The hammermill is fine as it is. Its a completely different machine to the one I was describing to User:Noisy, and there is no need to merge anything, since it will cause confusion. There is a fine a disambiguation page for the word Hammer on which few manufacturing meanings are listed. In manufacturing you've got hammermill, tilt hammer, trip hammer, steam hammer, air hammer, etc, etc, and these might be added. Run the idea past Noisy and see what he thinks. Get back to me if you start it and I will see what I can add. Kind regards. Apwoolrich 19:15, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

thanks for the reply! I was fooled by the article because when I saw it, it was blank except for the link, the person who added the link had blanked the content, and I forgot to check the history... Do you know where I can find more info about stamp mills? I'm thinking that maybe a stamp mill is not the same as a hammer mill... ++Lar: t/c 19:20, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Stamp mills were use in early paper making for preparing the paper-stuff, before the invention of the Hollander. They were used in mining for breaking ore, in oil-seed processing for pressing the oil from the milled seeds. They comprised a set heavy wooden beams with a metal facing on the bottom, loosely held vertically in a frame in which the beams could slide up and down. They were lifted by cams on a horizontal rotating shaft. As the cam left the beam it fell onto the material being processed, then picked up again at the next pass of the cam. They were in use from the Renaissance onwards, but were superceded in the 2nd half of the C19 by more efficient methods of processing. Hope this helps. Apwoolrich 19:36, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That helps a lot. WOW! I'm going to lift that text if you don't mind because I now think, since a stamp mill is not a hammer mill, a Stamp mill article is warranted. I wonder why they were still in use in Houghton County, MI copper mining/refining into the 1920s or later??? (according to my dim memory of what I learned at Michigan Tech...) The Redridge Steel Dam was built in 1905 and supplied water to at least 2 stamp mills. The tailings were dumped in the lake... only to be dredged up later so that chemical extraction could get the rest of the copper out! ++Lar: t/c 19:46, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Take a look and see what you think... thanks again for your help! ++Lar: t/c 20:13, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Stamp mill is excellent. Keep up the good work. Have you checked Commons to see if there are any Pix? Apwoolrich 20:50, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I did not check, I am not very good at searching Commons for stuff... however I just found two pix in the Library of Congress: Image:LOC_JCH_Grabhill_StampMill_02615v.jpg and Image:LOC_JCH_Grabhill_StampMill_02613v.jpg which I am in the process of adding!!!! One has a great interior view... I could not have done it without you man, your nugget to get the article started was brilliant. Since you're a technologist, check out Steel Dam and the two (of 3 US examples) I have done, and let me know where I need to improve! Thanks again...

My questions

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Hey, they're not jokes, and nope, I'm not going for revenge, I just figured its easier to give one question set all at once and not scare the candidate with 50 million little questions coming up :) -- Tawker 23:08, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You DO realise I'm just having fun, right? I think your questions are fine... Cheers! ++Lar: t/c 23:46, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Beatles articles

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...I daresay this isn't all of them, I probably have a few false positives, and a few will be redirects, but by surfing most of the Beatles category tree with AWB I have a list of 569 unique articles. Swoon. (List can be made available either as a text file or a wiki article should you need it). --kingboyk 01:24, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Put it on a page somewhere, mate... I can use it to check my work. If you tableise it, I will like you better. Not that I don't like you anyway, but the || are just easy to parse. ++Lar: t/c 01:26, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In the end, I think you'd be better off using the whatlinkshere/category of {{WPBeatles}}. My first list had a few false positives, everything else got tagged with that template. (End result: well over 500 articles). I'm more than happy to send you the list but since my definitive list is simply articles that use that template it would be better to create your own up-to-date version if you need it. (Build the list in AWB from the category or whatlinkshere - inclusions only, then save it to file. You get a wiki-friendly #-numbered list, one per line. Easily converted to tables in a text editor). --kingboyk 17:49, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In the end, in the long term view, I want categories, because the long term users of this tool won't know what their articles are as well as they would their categories. But I should code the tool to take articles OR categories as input (right now it takes lists of categories or a reference to a page that has a category table... for now though I want categories and not articles because I haven't coded the part to take articles instead of categories. If I had a list of articles though, there's not much the tool needs to do to produce a table of articles with classification. Maybe we're not on the same wavelenght about what this tool is intended to do. ++Lar: t/c 20:23, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Where did I mention your tool mate? I simply asked if you want a list of articles :) --kingboyk 20:32, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Whoops, reading too fast! I am under a lot of self imposed internal pressure to get that darn thing done (because the Wikipedia 1.0 project is going to be asking lots of projects to do this classification thing and if I don't get it done soon they all will do it by hand, waste of effort!!!!) and it's stressing me out!!!! Sorry mate. ++Lar: t/c 20:36, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
No worries. If it gets used by the Wikipedia 1.0 project it'll all be worth it! I'm working on The KLF now so I'll leave you to it. Cheers mate. --kingboyk 20:40, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

DYK

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Updated DYK query Did you know? has been updated. A fact from the article Ashfork-Bainbridge Steel Dam, which you recently created, has been featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Cactus.man ✍ 17:51, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ref converter

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You are receiving this message because you are on the Ref converter spamlist

I'm working on a new beta version of Ref converter to properly handle {{ref label}} and multiple refs to the same note. It is located here. I'd appreciate any feedback or bug notes on this new version. So far it tentatively handles ref labels and I will be adding multiple ref support soon. Once I think it's good enough it's going to overwrite wikirefs.pl and become the main version. --Cyde Weys 03:42, 14 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Your input is needed here. Thanks. --Cyde Weys 13:38, 14 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

DYK

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Updated DYK query Did you know? has been updated. A fact from the article Stamp mill, which you recently created, has been featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Cactus.man ✍ 07:48, 14 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Tech and Redridge

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Greetings again -- I'm taking this to your talk instead of the Redridge Steel Dam talk for now. First, always glad to meet a fellow Tech alum -- don't suppose you've seen the campus in the last few years? As a CS major, you'd be interested in the massive new CS building, and the pending total gutting of Fisher. Incidentally, I'm a BMath 2004, and probably returning for some grad work in the near future.

On Redridge: Clarence Monette has written literally hundreds of local history booklets which are published and available all over the Keweenaw. I own one on Redridge and the dam, but it's packed away (I'm moving in a few weeks). Once I find it again, I can probably provide a LOT more factual data and history. -- dcclark (talk) 17:27, 14 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've not been back to Tech since the Delta Sigma Phi Beta Pi 50th reunion (in 1998 I think)... I was aware there was a new CS building going in, and that Fisher was going to get trashed out though, I get the alumni propaganda sent. I live in the GR area so it's not out of reach to go there, just a time factor. I look forward to any other info you might be able to contribute. We used to go Copper Country Cruising to the dam and the old abandoned stamp mill sites (although I confess, we probably went to the Gay, Michigan Gay bar a lot more often. I went nosing around in your piccie directories, you have some other good ones that WP/Commons could definitely benefit from if you were so inclined. Cheers. ++Lar: t/c 17:33, 14 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Can you point out any specific pics? I'm a bit busy right now (graduating in Waterloo and all...). But, I'm planning to be in Houghton this summer, and spending a lot of my time wandering around the Keweenaw and taking photos. I could probably provide a ton of pics for Copper Country-related articles after that! -- dcclark (talk) 18:57, 14 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'll let you know of any... believe it or not my primary focus on WP is elsewhere (Bridges, esp. those of David B. Steinman, and The Beatles) so no worries. If you have some already... I do know that the Portage Lake Lift Bridge (last time I checked) could use a better one. (never mind, that one has a beaut now!) Quincy Mine only had one color pic but the HAER source may have a lot more. If you have a pic of the old stamp sand dredge in Lake Linden that might be good! No worries. This encyclopedia will be done eventually but there is no rush. Get to it when you get to it. ++Lar: t/c 19:10, 14 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Image tech issue

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I have replied to your question here. I feel your assistance may be required. Thanks! Ian13/talk 19:48, 14 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have managed to fix it! Please see the tech page for reasons. (One of my first Tech supports sucessfully completed :D) Ian13/talk 21:09, 14 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Small Project Wiki (continued)

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Lar,

Thank you very much for your advice to use "Wiki on a stick". I have now sucessfully created a wiki on a 64 meg USB drive. I wonder if you would be kind enough to continue anwering questions for me?

  • How to access the wiki from other computers - I can't make this work. I get stuck at the listen command. Is there a reference that explains localhost in small words?
  • Stand Alone Machine - now that I have a USB wiki, I think the next step is a stand-alone PC wiki. Can I do this without using a server OS? For example, could I just set a PC on our network and set up MediaWiki, Apache, etc... and then email the link to my office mates?
  • Corporate Wiki - is there anything that would help me "sell" the idea of an internal wiki to my corporate IS people. For example, are there examples of other companies using wiki internally? Is there something that explains how to integrate the security with our internal network security?
  • Speed - is it slow because of the small drive, or can I do something to make it faster?\

You have already been so helpful, any more advice you provide would be appreciated.

Thank you, Mike --MikeShelton 21:39, 14 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am probably not the right guy to be of much help. I know it exists and that others have used it, but haven't yet myself!!! I seem to recall from skimming the docs that it's configured out of the box to only work on the machine you put it on. The docs seem to give some discussion on how to configure it so it's reachable from other machines. You may have better luck asking questions of the folks that frequent the page I pointed you at: m:wiki on a stick (check the talk page and ask there if you haven't already)
Apache config Step 4 in the instructions there seems to get at what you're asking about Search for "Listen 80" and change it to "Listen 127.0.0.1:80" - this restricts access to the local computer. You will also see the local computer called the "localhost" in some of these instructions. (localhost is just another name for "this machine" which usually also has the IP address of 127.0.0.1 when it is talking to itself, whatever IP address it has for real on whatever networks it is on...) Did you change listen 80 to listen 127.0.0.1:80? If you did, try changing it back. The listen with 127... on it means it only listens to itself, not to any connection request from any other IP address. listen 80 says listen on port 80 for ANYBODY that can try to connect. Your computer may still have firewall settings, you'd need to open port 80 for incoming traffic. (I just told you about all I know about that!, there is more documentation at the Apache site)
I DO know that if you resolve the ports/configs issue you won't need a big massive machine to run a small wiki on, something running Win XP should be fine. SURE, bigger and faster machines mean faster performance, but cheap is good when you are trying to get started. It will have to be on the network and firewalls and suchlike will have to be configured to let others get there (which I think is where you're stuck...).
Corporate: Well... you could tell your IT guys that IBM, for example, has 20,000 wiki users internally. (I work for IBM so I just did a quick query on that...). Once you demostrate value with your departmental level stuff it should be an easy sell... If you want me to ask around within IBM to see if we have a service offering to help your company deploy stuff, drop me an email via the mail link. But I'm not trying to sell you!!! just sayin' ... there are many companies that would be happy to help you with that. That includes the configuring acecss control and suchlike you refer to. Hope that helps...++Lar: t/c 22:08, 14 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Lar, thanks again. Your information is wonderful, and helping a lot. I have another question: Putting the old cliche' "there are no stupid questions ..." to the test.
Say I have a wiki article AAAAA. Article AAAAA includes section aa, section aaa, and section aaaa.
For some reason, I want to include section aaa of article AAAAA in article BBBBB as section bbb.
Can I do this and maintain the link to aaa? So that if aaa was edited in AAAAA, then the edits would show up in BBBBB?
Thanks, Mike--MikeShelton 18:12, 20 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You can achieve this effect with transclusion. Create a separate article "aaa" (which is the one you want to appear in more than one place. In both AAAAA and BBBBB, at the spot you want it, say {{aaa}} which will include it. Assuming "aaa" is in article space that's all you need to say. (if it were in USERspace, for example a subpage of your user page, you'd say {{User:MikeShelton/aaa}}. See the source for my user page. It includes a subpage "Babel". Hope that helps. Note that the formal help pages of this wiki have way more info on this than I just gave you. ++Lar: t/c 03:07, 21 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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