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Archive 18

I recognize that this user page belongs to the Wikipedia project and not to me personally. As such, I recognize that I am expected to respectfully abide by community standards as to the presentation and content of this page, and that if I do not like these guidelines, I am welcome either to engage in reasonable discussion about it, to publish my material elsewhere, or to leave the project.


This is an archive of User talk:Lar from about 1 November 2006 through about 15 November 2006. Please do not comment here, use my current talk page for that, thanks. It is part of a series of archives, see the box at right for the list and to navigate to others.

An index to all my talk page archives, automatically maintained by User:HBC Archive Indexerbot can be found at User:Lar/TalkArchiveIndex.

Talk Page Archives
My post 2012 archived talk
Archive 79 1 December 2012 through 1 December 2013
Archive 80 1 December 2013 through 1 December 2016
Archive 81 1 December 2016 through 1 December 2018
Archive 82 1 December 2018 through 1 January 2021
Archive 83 1 January 2021 through 1 January 2023
Archive 84 1 January 2023 through 1 January 2025 ??
RfA Thank Yous
RFA Archive Howcheng (27 Dec 2005) through present
All dates approximate, conversations organised by thread start date


The Beatles AfD

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If you hadn't noticed a vandal put The Beatles up for deletion. As this is clearly vandalism I reverted to the article previous to the notice - however I realise that the notice is probably in the Wiki system and I need an admin to get it removed. I will argue that the lesser evil is to remove the tag from the article to avoid confusion, and then do the business with Wikipedia. I'm copying this note to Kingboyk in case you are busy.LessHeard vanU 22:43, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Kingboyk advices that the above matter has been sorted. I will leave it up to you whether you want to removed these comments.LessHeard vanU 22:50, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Rolling back an obvious vandalism like an AfD on The Beatles is a very good revert, well done. I don't see any reason to remove these comments, all is well. Glad it's sorted. ++Lar: t/c 23:19, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Clerkship Parte Deux

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Dear Lar, may I enlist your serives as my clerk once again? I have requested that Q12 and my non-response to it be refactored out of Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2006/Candidate statements/Questions for Crzrussian and onto my talk page - but I don't think it would be appropriate for me to do so myself, for obvious reasons. Could you review this request, and either fulfill it if you think the request appropriate, or state for the record on Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2006/Candidate statements/Questions for Crzrussian that you think the request is not appropriate. I'll defer to your decision on this, unless, for whatever reason, you choose not to serve. Thanks a lot. - crz crztalk 20:20, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I will take a look and either fulfill it or state for the record as you request. Give me a bit of time though. ++Lar: t/c 20:28, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
sent you an email... thanks! ++Lar: t/c 22:52, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Humm, I find this an odd request, and I seriously worried with the censoring that User:Crzrussian tries to impose on me by using you as a proxy. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 15:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re: my secret

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Oh dear, you've found out my secret! I was going to ask you to keep it to yourself, but on further consideration, I beg of you, please take appropriate action! This Guinnog account is way too prolific and I simply cannot maintain the account's image anymore! Sarah Ewart (Talk) 21:06, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Checkuser away, my friend. You won't pin anything on me. Your suspicions are groundless. Sarah, er Guinnog 21:31, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Now how fascinating that you come out with conflicting stories! As to the appropriate action??? hm... ++Lar: t/c 22:21, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Frankly I am relieved the charade is over. Those suborbital hops on the black stealth aircraft from Oz to Scotland were doing my head in anyway... --Guinnog 22:33, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oz ?? I've a "fan"/stalker who is apparently trying to convince me that there is no such place as Oz. Are you sure you're not in a fantasy land? Too much Guinness while in flight? ++Lar: t/c 23:17, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That'll be it likely. Which reminds me, I am still searching for a John Courage photo for you. It might make a nice project award or Barnstar, what do you think? --Guinnog 23:28, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A project award or informal award would both seem good ideas, especially the latter (the use of Courage to denote courageous actions seems apropos). Not sure about it being a barnstar image though. I don't hang out at WP:BEER so couldn't say what they do per se. Now how come you know about that glass of beer I gave Sarah??? :) Oh wait, I know. ++Lar: t/c 23:39, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
A factual correction is a factual correction. That was the equivalent of saying a Ferrari is a French car to me. Sad, eh? :) --Guinnog 00:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Just to let you know, since the suborbital black stealth aircraft are still classified, agents will be by soon to debrief you regarding its disclosure on an unclassified website. Please do not be alarmed by the various assortment of equipment they carry. Thanks! :D ~Kylu (u|t) 00:11, 8 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's ok. I'll probably know them from training from before I accepted this assignment. Oh no, what am I saying? How do you delete stuff from this crazy thing? Hang on, that's the door... --Guinnog 00:14, 8 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wikistalking?

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I think it would be much more collegial to confine suggestions of wikistalking to user talk or RfA pages, rather than article talk pages, don't you? RoscoHead 21:46, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's rather rich for you to speak of collegiality, actually. But thanks for your input. ++Lar: t/c 22:21, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oh? Why do you say that? RoscoHead 23:01, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Let's not be coy, Rosco. At least part, of your reason for being here is related to me. You know it, and now you know I know it too, as I have, independently confirmed, for some time. I think that's rather a waste of time and effort on your part, but I guess everyone has to have a hobby. ++Lar: t/c 23:17, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'll take your word for it, but I'm still intrigued why you say "I think it's rather rich for you to speak of collegiality"? RoscoHead 23:43, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's not just my word, mind you... As to why: You're stalking me, and not for our mutual amusement based on an existing friendship, as in the example you gave, from an older talk page of mine (interesting that you were able to dredge it up, or that you felt the need to.)... QED. ++Lar: t/c 00:26, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your response, but it just brings up more questions for me. First it *IS* only your word that I'm taking, because it's the only word I have definitive proof of. But to the questions; let's (hypothetically) say you're right, and I'm stalking you. Why does that cause you to say "I think it's rather rich for you to speak of collegiality"? Do you think stalking and collegiality are mutually exclusive? Or maybe you say that to everyone you think is stalking you? And what exactly has been definitively proven? RoscoHead 00:57, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

(deindent) Hi Lar, sorry to butt in. I've asked RoscoHead to back off. Can I ask you too to let this drop here? As I said to the other user, I don't think it is going anywhere good. Apologies again for playing the cop; I know you can fight your own battles. Just don't think this is the place for it. Best wishes --Guinnog 01:06, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Intimidation?

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redacted to User_talk:Great2bnaustin#Intimidation.3F per my policy. Threads should stay where they start for best clarity. ++Lar: t/c 05:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Userfication request

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Hi Lar. I've been asked for a copy of a deleted article. Ordinarily with userfication I'd undelete and move to userspace, but this article has over 500 edits. Do you think it's alright to just copy the latest revision for the editor? Any GFDL issues? --kingboyk 12:52, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My understanding on GFDL is that we MUST preserve the revision history, even for something that ends up in user space, if it isn't deleted outright, with certain very limited exceptions. That's because we have to be able to attribute work properly. So I'd restore it with all 500 versions in the history and then move it... copy paste moves are almost always frowned on... I could be wrong, and you could get more opinions on WP:AN. ++Lar: t/c 13:13, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Lar. I userfied the whole thing and advised him to move rather than paste it back should it ever make a return to article space. --kingboyk 15:41, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

November Esperanza Newsletter

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Program Feature: Admin Coaching (needs coaches!)
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What's New?
The Tutorial Drive is a new Esperanza program! In an effort to make complicated processes on Wikipedia easier for everyone, Esperanza working to create and compile a list of tutorials about processes here on Wikipedia. Consider writing one!
A discussion on how Esperanza relates to the encyclopedia has been started; please add your thoughts.
Many thanks to MiszaBot, courtesy of Misza13, for delivering the newsletter.
  • The list of proposed programs has been updated, with some proposals being archived.
  • There is now a new program: the Tutorial Drive! Consider writing a tutorial on something you are good at doing on Wikipedia.
  • The suggestion of adding a cohesive look to all the Esperanza pages is being considered; join the discussion if you are interested!
  • In order to make a useful interlanguage welcome template, those involved in translation projects will be asked what English Wikipedia policies are most important and confusing to editors coming from other language Wikipedias.
  • A discussion of Esperanza's role in Wikipedia is being held, with all thoughts of all Esperanzians wanted!
  • Shreshth91 informed everyone that he will be leaving the Esperanza council as life is rather busy; his spot will be filled by the runner up from the last election, HighwayCello.
Signed...
Although having the newsletter appear on everyone's userpage is desired, this may not be ideal for everyone. If, in the future, you wish to receive a link to the newsletter, rather than the newsletter itself, you may add yourself to Wikipedia:Esperanza/Newsletter/Opt Out List.

#wikipedia-en-admins

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Can you please grant me access to the channel. My nickname is CBWeather. Thanks. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 02:05, 6 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, since you're an admin. I'll sort it out for you tonite if you're not already sorted. Do you have a cloak? ++Lar: t/c 19:32, 6 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
No I don't. Thanks. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 04:01, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't see you on tonite.... ping me when you're in IRC and see me and I'll get you sorted if you haven't already been set up. ++Lar: t/c 05:06, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I was on for a couple of hours. Which channel? CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 15:58, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry I missed you, I should be on again tonight I think. Check in #wikipedia and in #wikipedia-en to see if I am around, then ping me or open a query to me so we can talk through it.. You have at least registered 2 nicks, and linked them together, right? ++Lar: t/c 16:31, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Does he have to roll one trouser leg up, and bear his left breast? Giano 16:40, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
No. And there are other channel admins that can help him, of course. But those are the requirements for admission to that channel as I understand them, a cloak is preferred, and having two nicks, registered and linked together, is required. The rest is just how to get hold of me. Hope that helps, thanks for stopping by. ++Lar: t/c 16:49, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Gosh this is intriguing, what is the cloak like? - is it like the Caped Crusader's - and what about the 2 nicks linked, what are they, some sort of initiation incisions like Red Indians do, with nipple piercings linked with a chain? do people have an anaesthetic before the nick is made? I'm glad I'm not an admin it all sounds jolly painful. When you are initiating people do you wear a special sort of hat, like a grand wizard? I only ask, you understand, because I'm interested in this sort of thing. Giano 17:47, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm in #wikipedia-en-admins regularly, and I have neither cloak nor more than one nick. (I do have a jolly good branding scar, though!) Should I? -GTBacchus(talk) 18:06, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You just have to be registered and logged in AFAIK. If you see me on, you can ping me to add you too. Bearing of breasts may or may not be encouraged, but what happens in #wikipedia-en-admins, stays in #wikipedia-en-admins. --Interiot 18:21, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, but sadly I'm not an admin, story of my life, I've always been interested in secret societies and things since my very best friend Gianluca and I formed a very secret society, we too had codes and initiations and secret ways of communicating just like Lar's; but then Gianluca's mother said we had to admit his sister Eleanora, and all the other members left and formed their own secret society and wouldn't let us join unless we lost Eleanora - so we lost her but alas she was found and Gianluca's mother told my mother and it all became very unpleasant and stressful - and I never did again join a secret society - so I'm just interested - does Lar though have to wear a special hat, or something else distinguishing, when he's initiating? Giano 18:31, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's not really all that much of a secret cabal. About the only thing that's secret there are OTRS issues (for some reason #wikipedia-en-admins is restricted, but #wikimedia-otrs isn't). 97% of the time, people seem to hang out in #wikipedia-en-admins just because it's not quite as off-topic as the other channels. The buzzwords are IRC/Freenode-specific stuff, you can read about it in their FAQ. And for what it's worth, if it would decrease this ingroup/outgroup tension, I'd most likely support you as admin. --Interiot 18:46, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Another admin party on my talk page! All I know is what I was told, that cloaks are good, but not mandatory, but you have to have two linked nicks. I have no idea why that is without reading up the stuff I read back when, and don't really care. There are a large number of people that have sufficient access to grant access to the channel, and do the invite exemption, so it's not like CBWeather has to get it from me. Giano I hope you've now got whatever it is you came here for. Not that I'm clear on exactly what it is or why you came here but ok... ++Lar: t/c 19:27, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's just not true about two linked nicks. I've only got the one, and I'm in #wikipedia-en-admins right now. -GTBacchus(talk) 19:32, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, a little bird tells me that what that is all about is that you need two linked nicks to GET a cloak. And having a cloak makes giving the invite exemption easier I think. But I dunno... ++Lar: t/c 19:59, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
So where does one get the invitation, or can anyone join - is "Little Bird" a code name for someone important? - like Secret Squirrel? Why is so secret what you wear Lar for initiations? Giano 20:11, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Giano, please consider posting in a way that doesn't give me the impression you are trolling, thanks. If you seriously have questions about this there are resources available to you. Start with the IRC article would be my suggestion, and the FAQ on Freenode. If you don't seriously have questions, well at this point, you may find more sympathetic ground for your bon mots elsewhere. ++Lar: t/c 20:34, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Relax! There is no need to be offensive Lar, I realise this is all frightfully important to you. As a mater of fact I have no wish to join your secret society with or without nips and tucks and magic cloaks and jockstraps, I shall form my own secret club "Freccia ardente di verità" and no matter how much you plead I won't let you join not even if you give me all your candy and pocket money. Now you have a nice secretive evening and watch out for spies in the camp! Ciao Giano 20:45, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
OK, so you don't actually have any serious questions then? Glad we've got that sorted... But watch out that those flaming arrows don't hit you in the place you keep your truth, hm? ++Lar: t/c 20:58, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Have no fear Lar, I never miss a trick! Giano 21:09, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Just a few bits of information for the curious:
  • Wikipedia:IRC cloaks and, related, m:IRC channel cloaks
  • Wikipedia:IRC channels
  • Just about the entire category: m:Category:IRC
  • Once you're connected to IRC, you can see the access list by typing /msg chanserv access #wikipedia-en-admins list
  • Other notable Wikipedia admins with access there are myself, Bishonen, and Bunchofgrapes. Any admin can request to be added, though since it takes effort to do so, and not all admins care about either IRC or that channel, it's only done on request.
Buon giorno. ~Kylu (u|t) 00:04, 8 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ciao Kylu! Thanks for clearing that up, I'd no idea a cloak could be anything other than the obvious. - Oh to have been educated in IT, when I was young we had to save for three years to afford a pocket calculator the size of a house brick. I'm glad you popped up here though, because funnily enough it was you who fist alerted me to the secret Admins channel, do you remember when you banned me following discussions on that channel, then when the ban turned out to be controversial you couldn't remember with whom you had discussed it, then when it turned out to be Lar (not exactly an unbiased party) Lar became very cross, and refused to have any of the conversation disclosed - so you see I started to wonder about the channel then - and why Wikipedia matters discussed there are secret. Never mind it's all clear now. I won't bother posting to this thread again unless anyone else makes a pertinent point. Giano 09:21, 8 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Danny's contest

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So, does "fairly shortly" mean "real soon now", or are there other complications that are delaying things? ;-) Kirill Lokshin 20:47, 6 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Other complications. :) The results are written (were as of last Friday actually). Danny knows where they are. He liked what we came up with for our selection. He just needs to announce the results. So at this point I'd bug Danny... I don't want to steal his thunder without his blessing. My apologies if this is giving you any heartburn! ++Lar: t/c 20:55, 6 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

User talk:Guinnog/date linking

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Thanks for your support! --Guinnog 23:37, 6 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Has anyone done a "Defend Each Other" essay on en-wiki?

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Other than the meatball wiki reference, is there any such essay, or guideline or whatnot here on en.wikipedia? I keep thinking that we should if we don't already, but I don't want to duplicate effort. Thanks! Georgewilliamherbert 04:24, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know but I think if no one has it would be a good idea. Perhaps with a bit more meat that the meatball one (which gets the point across though, I was thinking of examples). I've been off wiki but I have been thinking that there are a few folk that need defending right now, too. ++Lar: t/c 12:24, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject The Beatles Newsletter, Issue 7, November 2006

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WikiProject The Beatles Newsletter
Issue 007 – November 2006

Issue of the Month

Again, the issue of the month is inline citations. A Day in the Life, A Hard Day's Night (song), and Get Back have all been defeatured, as they failed to satisfy criterion 1(c) of What is a featured article?, and other song FAs are due for the chopping block. Inline citations are an important aspect of articles—they ensure verifiability and reliability, and they remove original research. Additionally, they give readers the option to read the original source material and view it within context.

Basically:

  1. All direct quotations attributed to Beatles members pooled from interviews need full inline citations.
  2. All critical comments about songs or albums need full inline citations to notable music critics, magazines opinions, or reviews, as opposed to being merely comments by Wikipedians.
  3. Inline citations need: author name, article name, publication date, and name of publication. Such info is still preferable even if quoting from an interview posted upon a website; when this is the case, place the URL link at the end of the citation with the date it was last accessed. (This will help editors retrieve the page using the Wayback Machine, should the link go dead in the future.)
Beatles News
  • The Beatles are due to release a soundtrack album, LOVE, at the end of November, as a companion to their Cirque du Soleil adaptation of the same name. It will feature remastered and remixed versions of their previously released songs, including some new medleys.
  • Paul's getting a divorce. Pain, arguing, and fighting abound.
Project News
  • The Wings tours are really nicely documented now (see Category:Wings tours), but Category:The Beatles tours is almost empty. Kingboyk and the rest of us would love to see (and read) articles on each Beatles tour, including the pre-fame tours of the UK—and the Hamburg trips, of course!
  • The hottest Project page this month has been Paul McCartney, involved in the Featured Article drive, as mentioned above.
Member News
  • Our project members are too modest to report any awards they may have given or received.
From the Editors

Wherever possible, editors should help to trim down on list-like prose within Beatles articles. They should convert list-like sections into fluent, cohesive prose which ties an article's sections together. Lists make articles disjointed, awkward, and difficult to read.

Be sure to take part in the Featured Article drive, and don't forget those inline citations!

If you've just joined, add your name to the Participants section of Wikipedia:WikiProject The Beatles. You'll get a mention in the next issue of the Newsletter and get it delivered as desired. Also, please include your own promotions and awards in future issues. Don't be shy!

Lastly, this is your newsletter and you can be involved in the creation of the next issue (Issue 008 – December 2006). Any and all contributions are welcome. Simply let yourself be known to any of the undersigned, or just start editing!

Contributors to this Issue
Want to help on next month's newsletter? Don't want to receive these in future? Don't want it subst'd next time? – It's all here.

Threats?

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"For making threats against Cool Cat and others"?   What threats? – SAJordan talkcontribs 02:20, 14 Nov 2006 (UTC).

Tobias Conradi

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If it's alright, I'd like to mentor Tobias Conradi. I am not an administrator but I'd say I'm a firm, polite user. KazakhPol 05:01, 14 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Strikes me that having an admin (who can block) might be better but if you wanted to try, sounds good to me, mention it on the WP:AN/I thread. I certainly have no standing to decide per se.... ++Lar: t/c 05:19, 14 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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