User talk:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes

Previous discussions

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Hi AP, glad that I could collaborate with you on the EastEnders episodes. Just wondering if I should add a note to episodes that are featuring: a character joining, leaving, recast etc. or one-hour episodes or if the episode is aired on BBC2. Just a simple: Note: This episode aired for one hour or a Note: The episode featured the departure of Emma Summerhayes (Anna Acton). Thanks - Soaper1234 (talk) 22:07, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

No need to add the length as User:RachelRice added a column for it (see User:RachelRice/List of EastEnders episodes (2015)#January (1 January was 65 minutes)). For BBC2 broadcasts, this year there haven't been any but in my previous drafts, see User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (2014)#July, I've added it in the text. No need for the word "note" and especially not for bold. I always added "real world" information about episodes at the start of the episode summary, such as 3 July 2014, "One hour (double) episode, originally scheduled for broadcast as two episodes on 1 and 3 July, but the 1 July episode was postponed due to the World Cup" with reference. Also, in User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (2013), someone else added text for me like "Dexter Hartman arrives", to signify it was the first episode, however, when I added the episode summary, I removed that and added storylines that made it clear that character arrives in that episode. But in the 2015 page, User:RachelRice has said "Last appearance of Khali Best as Dexter Hartman and Anna Acton as DC Emma Summerhayes." I don't think there's anything you need to do in any of these respects, to be honest. AnemoneProjectors 22:20, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Hi again, continuing my work on User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (2013) and I thought if an episode is 60 minutes, but not two episodes merged into one (i.e. there is three episodes in the week, with one of them a 60 minute - effectively making it four regular episodes), would that class as an episode that would have a 4560-01 number or would it just be 4560? Also, if the case is that it remains with a 4560-01, would the second number be 1-2 or 1? Thanks, Soaper1234 (talk) 15:02, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Has that ever actually happened? We need to make sure the episode numbers all follow on correctly, the 2013 list has all its numbers, and follows on from the 2012 list. If in doubt, try to find the episode number online. Channel 5 used to have them in their soaps, which is where I originally took them from, then it was tvtv or something like that but that site ended, so now it's just down to Radio Times, and Digital Spy has started publishing them too. But the number for 4560/01 is correct - are you thinking of a different episode or wondering if it might come up in the future? (By the way, I used '/' not '-' because this is how they were listed on one of the websites that no longer list them.) AnemoneProjectors 16:57, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

By the way, if you Google the episode number, such as "eastenders episode 4562", you should get a matching Radio Times page. It won't give the date of the episode, but you could compare the credits to the BBC. Also check the history of the 2013 page you are editing - you removed hidden comments with RT refs that included WebCite archives I had done to preserve the page with the episode number and date intact. From http://www.webcitation.org/6D84Q9V4c you can see that episode 4562 was broadcast on 2 January 2013. Double episodes are not numbered by Radio Times (http://www.webcitation.org/6D84zS0Eq), so if you can't find what you want, it's probably a double-numbered double episode. AnemoneProjectors 17:07, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Had a look and I understand what you mean. I am aware of where I'd slipped up. I removed the hidden refs because there was none for User:RachelRice/List of EastEnders episodes (2015), which I thought was the template. I can add them back if you'd like me to. Thanks, Soaper1234 (talk) 18:40, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

I originally added refs for episode numbers because I thought they might be needed, but then started hiding them and in the end stopped adding them at all when I figured they weren't going to be necessary. No need to add them back - the history has them if they are needed, but it would be for reference only. I was going to remove them myself at some point. I'm just concerned that if we complete all 31 years, they numbers won't run consistently! AnemoneProjectors 18:45, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi Guys do you need any help, I am a fan of EastEnders and don't mind helping, episode numbers can confusing but can be found using a variety of sources including VT Clock Card. They are hard to find here is an example of Episode 4693 that aired on 19 August 2013.

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/eastenders/images/2/29/EastEnders_VT_Clock_%2819_August_2013%29.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150523213931

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:46, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Help is only needed with older ones, I think Soaper is working through them really well though. I have 4693 as 16 August 2013, though. AnemoneProjectors 22:35, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Oh @Soaper1234:, I saw you removed all my own episode summaries from 2013, which I don't think was necessary! AnemoneProjectors 22:35, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Oh also, Soaper1234 - double episodes should be with a / not a - thought I'm not sure where Rachel got the - from. I got the / from a reliable source that no longer exists and kept it consistent. Again, something that didn't need changing. But when there's a double episode, the number-in-year number only increases by one, as the episode numbers do not necessarily match the number of episodes. So 3 January 2013 is the 2nd episode that year, for the purporses of that article, and then the infobox says 204 episodes (which it did before), and not 217 (which it does now). AnemoneProjectors 22:43, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Sorry about that AP. I removed your episode summaries because I was going to add new ones, but I could just edit out the links and that would make it easier. I've been a tad unavailable recently, but should be back getting on with the episode lists soon. I really trying to work with 2013, then I'll move to 2014 and 2012. I'll change the '-' to '/' and I was just using Rachel's list as a template, hence following that rule. Why is it a double episode with the overall numbers, but not in the year? Sorry if I have done anything incorrect and please let me know if there is anything else. :) Soaper1234 (talk) 17:15, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

@Soaper1234: Sorry if I came across a bit moody before! :-) I would prefer it if you just edited my existing episode summaries rather than remove them and start again. The difference between - and / probably doesn't matter that much but I've only seen / used elsewhere. I did say that all pages should follow Rachel's 2015 format, so I can understand the change. I did mean to add "with minor changes"! I think with double episodes, it was just something I decided... perhaps because they're produced as two episodes but broadcast as one, so episode number (for example) 5555/56 could be episode 23 in the year and episode 5557 could be 24 in the year. Maybe I am wrong, which means I will also need to make updates. Actually, Rachel did do the same as me in the 2015 page, I think, unless it was me! I'm looking at March 2015. What do you think? AnemoneProjectors 17:23, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Actually, I think my way might be better in that when it says "The following is a full list of the EastEnders 2016 cast, followed by their respective episode count out of 15 total episodes", if there had been double epiosdes, it wouldn't match up if we counted them as two episodes.. for example if there was a double and someone was in both parts, they would only be counted as being in one. So that way, the appearances can match up. I say we count the number of individual broadcasts as the "number in year", but the overall number is based on EastEnders numbering itself. AnemoneProjectors 17:29, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi I am editing User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (1986) with reguard to the table are we going for the dark blue with without sortable columns or the light blue with sortable columns or is it a different colour for each page? Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:34, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

We are now going with dark blue, unsortable, so any that are light blue should be changed. I originally had them sortable because I wasn't going to put summaries in, but then I started eventually doing that, and that doesn't work with sorting - so any writers or directors with {{sortname}} don't need that template anymore either. I started with the lighter shade to be consistent with the infobox but User:RachelRice went with a darker one, which I've now adopted. AnemoneProjectors 20:19, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

@Soaper1234 and Kelvin 101: just wanted to point out if you're doing older episodes, if there are no episodes that aren't 30 minutes long, then the running time column isn't needed, you can just say somewhere in the article that all episodes are 30 minutes. AnemoneProjectors 10:43, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Also, it looks like the first year that is completely on the BBC website is 2007! What sources are we using for the older lists? AnemoneProjectors 10:55, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

I would recommend BBC Genome which has all the BBC TV Listings 1923-2009. Below is the link for 19 February 1985.

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/95e92fac0ca74da591e0950048b8cb45

The link below has the episodes put in order.

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/search/0/20?order=asc&q=Eastenders#search

Where abouts are the refs going next to air date or in a separate column?

I will try and create a template page, with blank tables. I haven't used Visual editor before but it might come in handy for the tables.User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (Template)

ThanksKelvin 101 (talk) 15:50, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Wow, that BBC Genome looks very helpful! As it's from Radio Times, I'm assuming the credits won't be complete - the first episode is on the official EastEnders website, but I think it's under 2010, when it was shown that year.

How would this template work? It could be useful - I've put it on my watchlist so I can see what you do. AnemoneProjectors 16:00, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Oh, you asked about refs? Which refs are these? Have a look at the 2016 draft - at the top of the episode list it says "All official ratings are taken from the Broadcasters' Audience Research Board (BARB).[12] Airdates, credits, running times and episode summaries are taken from the official EastEnders website.[13] Episode numbers are taken from the Radio Times.[14]" so if you have a general ref like that, you can put it in text that way. AnemoneProjectors 16:05, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I'm not sure what the point of the template page is, it seems to only be of use with the 1986 article - I thought it would be something that could quickly be transcribed on all pages. AnemoneProjectors 18:25, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

I was really thinking something we could just copy and paste and change the year/add relevant information. It's probably a bad idea. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 18:59, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Not to worry... we can still sort of use it for now, but we don't know how many episodes there will be for each month... hmm AnemoneProjectors 19:27, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

I updated the template so it is universal for all of them, and used it to start all of the drafts off! AnemoneProjectors 19:51, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234: What do you guys think about adding a reception section? For general reception of that year's storylines? Might be difficult for older ones but easlier for 2016. Or could it end up with too much? AnemoneProjectors 16:59, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: Yeah good idea this might be useful not sure if Digital Spy did one for every year though. http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/eastenders/news/a138571/year-in-brief-2008-eastenders/#~pl9qcN3i5dQmCx Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:21, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

That's not reception but good to put as an external link in the 2008 page. I doubt they did it again since - Kris Green did that one and he now works for EastEnders. AnemoneProjectors 19:39, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors, Soaper1234, and RachelRice: Hi I have finished entering all the Directors/Writers into User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (1986). I was wondering the viewing figures for 30.15 Million was that for part 1 or part 2 of Christmas 1986? Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:05, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

I've absolutely no idea. I didn't know there were two episodes that day! AnemoneProjectors 21:46, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

The Christmas 1986 episode were Den gives Angie the divorce papers, need to work out which part. He actually gives her the papers. Will try and research. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 23:42, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Maybe the ratings are for both. But do these help? [1][2]? Probably not. I'd say both combined, as there's never been any reference to it being one or the other, and if one episode was in the top 10, you'd expect the other one to be as well! AnemoneProjectors 23:46, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Yeah that make sense now, is there a way to combine the two ratings rows for part 1 and 2 so it reads 30.15 (combined), the way I normally do it does not seem to work with this type of table. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 00:20, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

I don't think you can use "rowspan" in these, but I would just add the rating in for both episodes with a footnote. AnemoneProjectors 11:22, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks I have added the footnote, I have ran into a bit of trouble locating Directors, for June 1987 User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (1987)#June on BBC Genome it only tells you the Director's name on every second episode. I would assume that a Director directs two episodes and it's only the writer that changes but as it's not listed, do I leave them blank or leave a ?. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:54, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Usually the director does the entire block of a week's worth of episodes, so in 1987 it would be two episodes. If you can't find a source to confirm this though, leave it blank. AnemoneProjectors 17:13, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

By the way, please can you use {{Start date}} for episode dates within the tables? Thanks AnemoneProjectors 17:23, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Episode number and airdate discussions

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

This has been resolved so I am closing all these discussions. If you need to reopen a discussion, please start a new section at the very bottom of the page.

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Episode numbers

@AnemoneProjectors, Soaper1234, and RachelRice:It's interesting to note that on the BBC Middle East website they actually use the actual episode numbers.
http://www.bbcmiddleeast.com/programme-search/?p=eastenders might be useful if we need a ref, have also saved a copy in Internet Archive. I had suggested to the BBC Store they use Episode numbers on their site as of yet they only seem to have seem to use it on double episodes but I hope they name them all using the episode number as the air date is already there next to the run time. https://store.bbc.com/eastenders Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 00:22, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

I've noticed this before on some other BBCs, I think it was South Africa and maybe Scandinavia. But we seem to have different numbers - they say New Years Day is 5204, but we say 5202. I say we stick with Radio Times for current episodes, which agrees with us that tonight is 5217, and work on our own list from 1985 onwards, hoping that the numbers match up. AnemoneProjectors 09:52, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

By the way, I know all episode numbers we have from 2009 onwards match Radio Times, though originally I used Channel5's Holy Soap - see here - 30 August 2010 was 4061, and following on from that to the present all matches up with RT. AnemoneProjectors 10:02, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Hi I am fixing up the 2009 page User:Frickative/List of EastEnders episodes (2009) and I noticed the episode number for the 1 January 2009 is listed as 3711 but on User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes it's listed as 3707, any ideas? Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:02, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Yes, the manual list I did is probably wrong because of double episodes. Look at episode 3918 on that list - I've got it as the 3911th episode. Please don't trust the numbers on that list - trust 2009! It was based on the Holysoap list going backwards from 2010. The double episodes thing annoys me though - because the episode numbers are different to the actual number of broadcasts. I believe we should definitely use episode numbers in these lists, but should the number of episodes be listed as different, in the main EastEnders infobox? AnemoneProjectors 10:22, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Sorry, forgot to ping you! AnemoneProjectors 10:23, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I am not sure about the infobox, we may have to wait to see what happens to the episode numbers through 1989-2008. I know that the current number is correct as if you at an publicity image lets say when yesterday 28 January 2014 Part 1 when Ian, Jane and Bobby was in the school office. Here is an image from BBC Picture published by the metro and we can use this website to read the metadata from that image http://regex.info/exif.cgi which gives us the offical episode number, this picture is from an episode transmitted: 28/01/2016 - Episode: 5219. I will try and find a publicity image metadata from 2009, it may finally answer our episode numbering dilemma. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 13:34, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Well I'm glad you can confirm that Radio Times agrees with the BBC, though you didn't show me an image! Digital Spy also uses these numbers now (eg). We've never needed to worry about the current numbering, so all we need to do is make sure the gap works out properly, and then maybe have a wider discussion later about the infobox! AnemoneProjectors 13:57, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Sorry must have closed the link thinking I had already pasted it. https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/9877778-high_res-eastenders.jpg Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 14:03, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Off topic but I especially like "FORTNIGHTLIES PLEASE DO NOT USE (SOAP LIFE and ALL ABOUT SOAP)"! AnemoneProjectors 14:13, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

I hope you don't mind on User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes I have generated static numbers that allow us to change them for instant I have gone back as far as 4775/76. 1 January 2014 and made alteration to include the two episode count as we could not do it on the previous list. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 02:06, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

That's absolutely fine, though I've restored the Wiki numbering as well so we can compare the two. But we have 3918 listed as 3911 still, so there are still problems - and you'll have a huge job when we find the error - does the numbering currently stack up if you add the dates? My guess is no, because of 3918 being 7 out. AnemoneProjectors 07:48, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: You don't don't happen to have any ideas when they started the hour long episodes, I would imagine somewhere after 2000 but I could be mistaken as I didn't start watching it till about 2003 or 2005. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 13:34, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: I Will have to cross check it with BBC Genome http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/search/0/20?adv=1&fri=1&media=tv&mon=1&order=asc&q=EastEnders&thu=1&tue=1&wed=1&yf=1985&yt=1985#search if you click advance you can choose which year, excludes the omnibus by not selecting sundays and it also gives you a entries count so in this case when know there are 91 episodes and there are 91 entries in there database for 1985 but if we look at 1986 there is 105 episodes but 116 entries this is due to other programs with EastEnders in the synopsis if a member of the cast was in that shows but after flick though the pages and deducting these shows we can identify if there is any episode missing from our list. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 14:50, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234:Hi I found something interesting a listing for two episodes 21 June 1988 one at 6:35pm http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/6dd3c6ffa1754dd1a6b46ef69e7c193f and one at 7:30pm http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/10ddbb65f4c44b4eb2f32d7978beed1b but no other website has a listing for two episodes it on the Genome website though its blank, I have fired a email off to Genome to comfirm if this is a correct listing or a mistake. If it is correct the number of episodes in 1988 will rise from 104 to 105 which will mess the numbering system up. Will let you know their response. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 18:52, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

Strange. See if they get back to you, I'm sure it's a mistake. AnemoneProjectors 19:31, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

By the way, I remember years ago, someone telling me or it becoming evident that EastEnders episode numbers were reset at some point. But obviously, the numbers currently stack up so if that's true, it's been "undone" at some point. In fact, the script for Dot's monologue episode says episode 1369, but we know it's episode 3526. AnemoneProjectors 16:22, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234:It looks like that was a false alarm for two episodes 21 June 1988 they have since added Regional news magazines on the tv schedule page and the omnibus on the Sunday was normal length. Thats a relief. Do you think there is a chance "Pretty Baby" maybe have been miss numbered. I like how the new scripts include the air date http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/writersroom/scripts/EastEnders-5017-18pps.pdf and they put on the scipt if its a double episode Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 17:02, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

But if they had "reset" the numbers, the difference would make sense. It's almost a shame there aren't more scripts available. AnemoneProjectors 17:41, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: I know what you mean, If they did reset I would think it may be around the time when the switched from two nights a week to four nights. Not sure if you seen this its interesting http://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/news/watch-rebrands-and-secures-eastenders-repeats/5098895.article Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:25, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Do you mean two to three nights, or three to four nights? Also, I did read about W(atch) when it was first announced, do you think it should be mentioned in the 2016 list? AnemoneProjectors 09:12, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Hi I didn't know it ever aired three nights a week even though it says it here EastEnders#Broadcast, learned something new, I would added that information to the 2016 list and maybe even to EastEnders#Broadcast. Off topic looking at the main EastEnders article I could see it getting good article status if it was cleaned up and citation tags were addressed, I have never reviewed an article for good article status but it looks really good to me. Maybe after we finish the episodes pages we could look at getting good article status for the main page. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 12:23, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I've added the new W info to the 2016 page, in the lead - and it's already under EastEnders#Repeats, I think I added it when it was announced in January. I would love to see the main EE page reach Good status! What I'd really love to see cleaned up is History of EastEnders - perhaps cut down and maybe merged back to the main article where it originally was. AnemoneProjectors 12:39, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234:Hi just has an email back from BBC Genome they confirms that there was only one episode that night. here is the reply: "As for the listing for EastEnders, it was published in the Radio Times as part of an alternative schedule to accommodate European Football Championships action that evening and would have replaced the show’s normal 7.30 timeslot. It was scanned into the data along with the regular listings. The match was screened on ITV so it’s safe to say that BBC1’s schedule remained unchanged." Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:03, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: I found this as well tell you how many episodes of EastEnders there is a year, trouble is it included omnibus episodes as well but we can deduct them. Its the BBC's old Database Infax its a shame they don't still give us access to it. Ignore 2006 at it was still being updated then.

http://web.archive.org/web/20060525104744/http://open.bbc.co.uk/catalogue/infax/series/EASTENDERS Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:17, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Kelvin 101, that's all really good stuff! Does this new reference match up to the numbers we have (when taking off omnibuses)? AnemoneProjectors 20:26, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: Yeah they all match up to the ones we have, I have also experimented with adding them to see how the pan out. I haven't done the overall episode numbers yet.

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: Hi I was looking at the 2014 and 2015 list and the numbers do not seem to follow on last episode of 2014, 4987 but first episode of 2015,4989 so somewhere there is 1 missing episode. The same with 2011 last episode 4344 but the first episode of 2012 4348. According to the BBC there has been 105 episodes in 1988 but I only count 104 unless they include Civvy Street as part of the series. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 14:32, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: 1 January 2015 was a double episode, so that explains the missing number there. 4344 is actually 26 December 2011, so I will find out what has gone wrong there and fix it shortly. Thanks for spotting these! I think I had, but had forgotten about them. I suspect they are including Civvy Street in that figure. AnemoneProjectors 14:49, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Well, 4242/43 and 4342/43 were doubles, and I had 4255 listed twice! So that's now sorted. AnemoneProjectors 15:28, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks that's makes more sense now, came across this site TVRage a shame the numbers on this site are not accurate Kelvin 101 (talk) 18:53, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

I found some episode numbers on tvlocate.com as well, which was quite good for at least some verification. AnemoneProjectors 16:41, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: Hi do you know when the 15th Anniversary was broadcast according BBC Genome http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2000-02-27#at-13.00 it was Sunday 27 February 2000 13.00 but I thought it strange to be a Sunday so I though I better ask. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 16:29, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I found the episode online which says it's 20 Feb, also a Sunday. It had Julia's Theme, and our list of Julia's Themes also says it was 20 February 2000. In fact, here it is on Genome http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2000-02-20#at-20.00 - maybe they repeated it a week later! AnemoneProjectors 16:41, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: Every time I think I have made sense of the numbers they go all funny up to 2009, I found this it's episode dated Tuesday 9 May 2006 and they claim is the 1,000th edition. http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/0f62295c19ad42cc95ecbb97dbf24df9 Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:49, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

My assumption there would be that it's the 1000th episode from the number reset! But it doesn't make sense to call it the 1000th edition! 31 January 2008 has the number 1369, so probably 369 episodes between May 2006 and January 2009. Make a hidden comment in the 2006 page when we come to it that that one has the number 1000, like I've put that the 2008 one has the number 1369. These are kind of production numbers really, rather than the total number of episodes, considering double episodes have two numbers. AnemoneProjectors 19:55, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Something else about episode numbers - since I started adding them to character infoboxes, they've been added to many more characters for years that we haven't worked on and don't know the numbers. Although I've recently reverted a lot of these, knowing them to be inaccurate, some still remain, for example, for Lucas Johnson it says his first episode was 3535 on 3 April 2008, but from the 2008 page, that can't be quite right, can it? I googled the number and found this - http://eastenders.wikia.com/wiki/Diane_Butcher_-_List_of_appearances - which doesn't agree with that number! AnemoneProjectors 20:09, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Yeah the more we look into the numbers the more they look wrong. I have found another double episode in 2009 2 April 2009. It lucky we haven't done 2008 yet as we would have need to re-number the whole of 2008. I have added the hidden note to 2006 as I likely wouldn't remember. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 22:22, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: Hi I was going through Genome searching using the search term EastEnders hour and have come up with these episodes lasting an hour apart from the 31 October thats just a note theres is two parts. The earliest episode episode I can find is 1998 that lasts an hour but I suspect there may be more when we come to doing all the other year pages.

1998

• Thursday 25 June 1998

2000

• Tuesday 31 October 2000 (2 half hour episodes same day)
• Thursday 2 November 2000

2004

• Friday 18 June 2004
• Friday 3 September 2004
• Thursday 11 November 2004

2005

• Tuesday 1 March 2005

2006

• Thursday 15 June 2006
• Friday 16 June 2006
• Friday 24 November 2006

2007

• Friday 9 March 2007
• Tuesday 29 May 2007
• Thursday 1 November 2007

2008

• Thursday 3 January 2008
• Wednesday 11 June 2008
• Wednesday 18 June 2008 (added by AnemoneProjectors, see here)
• Thursday 7 August 2008
• Thursday 30 October 2008

2009

• Thursday 2 April 2009
• Thursday 26 November 2009
• Friday 25 December 2009

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:49, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

In 2008, I found doubles for 3 Jan, 11 June, 18 June and 30 October, but not 7 August, by looking at the episode list on the EastEnders website. But I can see from here for example that it was an hour. Well, maybe we should get every episode listed with dates and durations before we work on numbering any more of them in any year. AnemoneProjectors 18:14, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

Hang on, this says 30 minutes! That's more likely to be a mistake though, than listings or Genome. AnemoneProjectors 18:15, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234:Same with this episode lists 40 minutes long but the offical EastEnders site only shows it as 30 minutes long http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b008m8pw but it shows on the schedule http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcone/programmes/schedules/london/2008/01/01 I will report these errors and they should be fixed soon. I agree we should definitely get all the Dates and Durations. Using Genome and BBC Programmes Schedule site. Where should the information be stored on each Year page or one separate page with all dates/durations? Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:04, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: Sorry misunderstood your last message as I only looked at it briefly I thought you meant putting all the air dates on one page but of course you meant put them in the tables on the year pages. Thanks will hold from continuing the episodes numbers until we sort all the air dates and durations like you said Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 00:48, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Yeah that's what I meant :-) It's just so that it's less likely we have to go back and fix our own mistakes! Thanks. AnemoneProjectors 10:57, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Hi I know we are not doing the numbers but this is just a note for us for the future 4556 is missing from 2012 Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:22, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

It's not missing, someone had messed up the formatting, missing a > on a hidden comment, making the entire episode also hidden. AnemoneProjectors 15:53, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Progress table

I didn't want to put these numbers into our other table until I was sure. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:49, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Year		# Episodes in Year	# Episodes Overall	Notes
	1985	91	1-91
	1986	105	92-196
	1987	107	197-303
	1988	105 (with Civvy Street)	304-408	1 episode has been removed due to Alternative Schedules.
	1989	104	409-512
	1990	104	513-616
	1991	105	617-721
	1992	106	722-827
	1993	105	828-932
	1994	142	933-1074	2 episode has been removed due to Alternative Schedules.One episode aired on a Sunday.
	1995	157	1075-1231	Note 1 Omnibus aired on Monday.
	1996	161	1232-1392	Note 1 Omnibus aired on Monday, 1 episode has been removed due to Alternative Schedules.
	1997	162	1393-1554
	1998	166 (with 4 Doubles) *168	1555-1720	1 episode has been removed due to Alternative Schedules.Two episode aired on Sunday one of them within World Cup Listing.
	1999	169 (with 1 Double) *170	1721-1889	Note 1 Omnibus aired on Monday, There's 3 episodes on a Sunday.
	2000	162 (with 1 Double and Return of Nick Cotton)	1890-2051	(1 episodes has been removed due to Alternative Schedules. Includes 2 sunday episodes. 162 with Return of Nick Cotton.)
	2001	179	2052-2230
	2002	211 (with Ricky & Bianca, 2 Episodes)	2231-2441
	2003	212 (with Dot's Story or Perfectly Frank)	2442-2653	(Includes 1 sunday episode.
	2004	210 (with 3 Doubles + Pat and Mo)	2654-2863	(Includes 1 sunday episode.)213 with Pat and Mo. 3 episodes has been removed due to Alternative Schedules.
	2005	211 (with 2 Doubles)	2864-3074	(Includes 1 sunday episode.)
	2006	211 (with 4 Doubles)	3075-3285	(4 episode has been removed due to Alternative Schedules. Includes 1 sunday episode.)
	2007	212 (with 3 Doubles)	3286-3497
	2008	212 (with 5 Doubles)	3498-3709	(1 episode has been removed due to Alternative Schedules, moved to next day. Includes 2 sunday episodes.)
	2009	213 (with 3 double)	3710-3922
	2010	209 (+9 double=213, + 1 comic relief)	3923-4135 (Jan-Dec)
	2011	210 (+2 double=212)	4136-4347 (Jan-Dec)
	2012	206 (+6 double = 212 + 3 red button)	4348-4559 (Jan-Dec)
	2013	211 (+4 double = 215 + 2 red button + 1 Comic Relief special)	4560-4774 (Jan-Dec)
	2014	206 (+7 double = 213 + 3 online)	4775-4987 (Jan-Dec)
	2015	209 (+5 double = 214)	4988-5201 (Jan-Dec)
	2016	TBA	5202-present (Jan-Dec)

References

@AnemoneProjectors: Found this it looks like the BBC listing included episodes in the schedule even if the times change.

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/1994-07-05#at-19.30 Kelvin 101 (talk) 17:44, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi I have updated the table we are currently out by 18 this does not include the 7 spin off episodes and the 16 hour long episodes that might count as doubles from 1998-2008. I know like you say the spin-offs will count but I am not too sure about the doubles. I also had a thought if the DVD Episodes Slaters in Detention and Last Tango in Walford are they actual episodes but unbroadcasted. Thanks 16:19, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: We are now certainly closer I have added Civvy Street, The Return of Nick Cotton, Ricky & Bianca, Dot's Story, Perfectly Frank, Pat and Mo. Up to 2009 the numbers add up to 3910 but we need to get to 3922. I must be missing something. Unless it's the doubles. Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:35, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I do find this table rather confusing now. But in the list I originally made in User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes#List of EastEnders episodes, episode 1000 is now the 1000th, and episode 3918 is now the 3918th, which is 25 December 2009. Ignore the manual list of numbers, these are the only two reference points I have on that list and both now appear to be correct. Therefore:

• 1985 = 1 to 91
• 1986 = 92 to 196
• 1987 = 197 to 303
• 1988 = 304 to 408
• 1989 = 409 to 512
• 1990 = 513 to 616
• 1991 = 617 to 721
• 1992 = 722 to 827
• 1993 = 828 to 932
• 1994 = 933 to 1074
• 1995 = 1075 to 1231
• 1996 = 1232 to 1392
• 1997 = 1393 to 1554
• 1998 = 1555 to 1715
• 1999 = 1716 to 1885
• 2000 = 1886 to 2003
• 2001 = 2004 to 2223
• 2002 = 2224 to 2443
• 2003 = 2444 to 2662
• 2004 = 2663 to 2877
• 2005 = 2878 to 3081
• 2006 = 3082 to 3294
• 2007 = 3295 to 3502
• 2008 = 3503 to 3714
• 2009 = 3715 to 3923

I can't go any further than that because then it's just a list of numbers with no dates, but 3918 was my original reference point and it now matches. It means that the older doubles (before December 2009) aren't counted as two (but the one in December 2009 is), but the specials are counted as episodes. So maybe some specials shouldn't be included and some doubles should... how can we ever know which is which? AnemoneProjectors 16:16, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:I have made an enquiry to the BBC about the episode numbers, still waiting to hear back they did say they would need more time for this enquiry and I also discovered that there is an EastEnders helpdesk to answer queries but I don't think they would have the information to hand and they would properly just refer me back to the BBC. If I don't hear anything from the email, I might try build upon your list copying the dates from Genome. I did copy your list User:Kelvin_101/EastEnders_Episodes#List_of_EastEnders_episodes and separate them so the autonumbering would count how many episodes each year. If we still end up stuck I will just give them a phone call. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:25, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101:I did think about contacting the BBC just to see which specials are included in the numbering and which doubles have double numbers! So good call. I'm wondering if we should have another column, so we have the number of episodes and the episode number, for when they differ. Because it will be confusing that the actual number of broadcasts is different to the episode numbers. AnemoneProjectors 22:00, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Yeah another column would be a good idea, I have added another column. Off topic found this http://www.bbcstudiosandpostproduction.com/our-work/eastenders/?case_study_category=studios it might be useful information for the main page. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 01:25, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

Just spotted that! Anyway now we can ignore what I posted above because we found 3 more episodes! AnemoneProjectors 23:26, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:I have updated the table I think we are all up to date now. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 00:50, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Episode 1000

Starting a new thread as the episode numbers one is massive.

We know that 12 July 1994 is episode 1000, but ages ago when I did a manual list of dates, that date is 999 on the list - any ideas where it may have gone wrong? Shall we just wait and see as we work our way through the years? AnemoneProjectors 21:17, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I would imagine theres one missed off or there's an earlier double episode we are not aware of. I will try and see if I can come up with an answer if not we may have to wait till we reach 1994 which isn't really that far off. We are up to 1991 so far. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 01:03, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: It looks like Civvy Street was not included on the list although its actually recognised as an episode in INFAX. I have made the adjustments to the list Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 16:37, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Oh that'll be why, I wouldn't have included it on the list. I guess we have to officially give it the number 406 then! AnemoneProjectors 16:52, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I think I have now updated most things accordingly, but not the following years - see how it pans out up to episode 1000 first. I'm wondering if the same thing might apply to "The Return of Nick Cotton" (2000), "Ricky & Bianca" (2 episodes in 2002), "Dot's Story" (2003), "Perfectly Frank" (2003), and "Pat and Mo" (2004). If they are counted in the numbering, we should do the same as I have done with "Civvy Street" and consider them true EastEnders episodes, and it might really help account for the numbering differences too. AnemoneProjectors 18:08, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

And!!! If these 6 episodes DO count towards the numbering, then where I've put that the one we have as the 3912th on the list (and then numbered manually as 3911) that I've said is actually 3918, which is 6 out... the 6 missing numbers would have been found! It would mean that 25 June 1998 counts as 1 not 2 episodes. AnemoneProjectors 18:18, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

I can't work out how to check that Infax thing to confirm if these are included :( AnemoneProjectors 18:31, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Hi to work out Infax lets says we are doing "1985",

• you go to the page http://web.archive.org/web/20060525104744/http://open.bbc.co.uk/catalogue/infax/series/EASTENDERS that gives us 136. But we need to deduct the omnibuses.
• We then you have to go to Genome http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/search/0/20?adv=1&q=EastEnders&sun=1&svc=9371541&yf=1985&yt=1985#search to find out how many omnibuses there were in that year.
• You need to use the advance search to tell it you only want Sunday programmes to be included. You need to select BBC One making sure there is no EastEnders on BBC Two now you have to go through all the programmes listed and any programmes that are not the omnibuses you need to make a note off (I like to use notepad). At the top of the screen you should be able to see Viewing entries the last number 45 in this case is how many entries there are.
• In this particular case you don't need to deduct any programmes from the list as all 45 are EastEnders omnibuses. You then would take the 136 that you got from Infax and take away the 45 omnibuses. This would give you 91 episodes that aired that year.
• To cross check this number you would go to you advance search and dis-select Sunday and Select Mon-Sat. Your page should look like this now. http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/search/0/20?adv=1&fri=1&mon=1&q=EastEnders&sat=1&svc=9371541&thu=1&tue=1&wed=1&yf=1985&yt=1985#search
• You need to select BBC One making sure there is no EastEnders on BBC Two, then again have to look at the top of the screen where you should be able to see Viewing entries the last number 94.
• After you go through the listings you should see that three of the entries are not EastEnders but "Take Two", "Saturday Superstore", "Saturday Superstore". You would deduct these from the 94 entries 94-3 = 91 Episodes for 1985.

Additionally I have added all the double episodes to the list but I cannot seem to find a place to put these on the list. 7 July 2011, 25 December 2011, 6 June 2012 and 11 September 2013. Sorry if this message take up too much space. I apologise in advance if my instructions for how to work out the Infax episodes numbers are not very good. Thanks Kelvin Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:09, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Thanks, I think that all makes sense. I tried it for 2000. Infax says 215. Gemone has 71 results for Sunday, 15 are not EE omnibuses, leaving 56 (3 are omnibuses in 2 parts, so 53 days of omnibuses). 215-56 = 159 episodes; 215-53 = 162 (does infax count these 2-part omnibuses as one or two?). Then Genome has 228 results for Mon-Sat, of which 69 are not EE, leaving 159. You have in the list 158. So does this mean The Return of Nick Cotton is counted as an EE episode or not? I have no idea. It's included in the "15 are not EE", as it went out on a Sunday. AnemoneProjectors 10:12, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:I have had a look, 215 programmes in 2000 according to INFAX, 15 are not Omnibus and 71 results so 71-15=56 Omnibus (this includes the two parts I am assuming they count as individual episodes as that is how they aired). 215-56=159. Looking back at this particular year I remember I included the 15 Anniversary repeat as I was not to sure of the air date and when you told me the correct air date I forgot to correct this from 57 to 56. So 159 is correct.

When checking 159 is the amount of regular episodes, I check entries from Mon-Sat there was 228, like you say there is 69 that are not EastEnders weekly episodes 228-69= 159 episodes

But then that means it does not include these episodes aired on Sunday 2 Regular episodes and 1 special.

• Sunday 24 September 2000
• Sunday 31 December 2000
• Return of Nick Cotton

I am confused, unless the two parts Omnibus only count as one? Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 17:23, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:I was looking at the table of episodes working back if we add 4987 (the last episode of 2014) to 214 (number of episodes in 2015) then you get the last episode of 2015 which is 5201. This works all the way up the table until you get to adding 4347 (last episodes of 2011) to 215 the number of episodes in 2012 you get 4562 by the calculator but it says according to the 2012 page 4559. So two episodes are missing somewhere. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 17:56, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I'll have a look at 2012 to see what I can find. AnemoneProjectors 16:12, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

The answer is - there were 206 episodes in 2012, not 209. None are missing, but the number was wrong. Does that fix things? AnemoneProjectors 16:41, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Oh no, 209 is the number of episodes that year, but that's including three three Red Button episodes - so technically the infobox is correct, but for our numbering, it's 206. AnemoneProjectors 16:43, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Yeah thanks everything from 2009 onwards makes sense. I have been checking the Infax numbers against the Genome numbers originally I just took the Infax amount of episodes in a year and then found out how many Omnibus episodes there were then deducted them from the Infax number but choosing to also check it by going through what you did on Genome selecting Mon-Sat shows differences in some early years such as 1991, 1994 and 1996. I am unsure now if Infax can be completely trusted and whether it was wrong to include Civvy Street after all. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 17:14, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I think we may find that when we have all the episodes for all the years, we will be right to include Civvy Street and the other spin-offs as official episodes, because of the list I originally made being 6 episodes out and there being 6 such spin-offs. We'll have to wait and see, but that's my gut instinct. On another note, don't forget that BARB can also be used to confirm broadcast dates and times, as EastEnders is always within the top 30 - it goes back to 1998. AnemoneProjectors 17:30, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Just thought I'd mention that we know the first 1000 episodes have the right numbers, as long as we include Civvy Street. See User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes#List of EastEnders episodes, where 12 July 1994 is the 1000th episode listed and is episode number 1000. AnemoneProjectors 23:01, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Hi a while ago you sent me a link to Holy Soaps http://web.archive.org/web/20100916234949/http://holysoap.five.tv/eastenders/episodes/catch-up?page=2 4052 - 13 August 2010 not sure if you seen this one I found it goes back to 3810 22 June 2009 http://web.archive.org/web/20110315013343/http://holysoap.channel5.com/eastenders/episodes/catch-up?page=36

Does this match up with the Radio Times? Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:29, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Oh well found, no I hadn't seen that. I can't tell if it matches Radio Times but Holy Soap was definitely reliable, I'd say let's go with it. AnemoneProjectors 22:46, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

I've added it to my list, it comes as the 3813rd entry on the list, so 3 out. AnemoneProjectors 22:48, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi I have added the air dates for 2010-216 to the list but have hidden them as they do not include notes about the doubles and wasn't too sure if you wanted to add them yet as we are still out by 3. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:40, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Thanks, I've removed the undated #s and unhidden yours, I basically wanted to see the difference...and I said I might revert it but I haven't reverted it... would you do me a favour and put in the doubles for that period? Thanks :-) AnemoneProjectors 20:22, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Hi I have added the double episodes. I have copied the list to User:Kelvin_101/EastEnders_Episodes#1999 so we can see how many episodes there are each year. I think I have discovered two episodes not on the list

• http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/1998-07-10#at-20.00
• http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/1998-07-11#at-20.10 I did orginally think the Friday on might not have aired becuase there another programme in the same time slot but it does mention them on the Sunday Omibus page http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/1998-07-12#at-16.10 I will continue check though the list to try and find the remaining episode. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:07, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

You're right, those episodes seem to be missing from my list! There might have been one on 12 July 1998 as well - http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/1998-07-12#at-19.00 - this looks like an episode of EastEnders to me, just like the one the day before that's hidden under the name of "World Cup 98 Final". And http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/1998-07-11#at-20.10 which you already mentioned says "Another episode and the World Cupfinal can be seen tomorrow at 7pm". So that's three missing episodes. Thanks for doing that by the way. AnemoneProjectors 23:18, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

So having made those changes, "Pretty Baby" (I think 3526) is now 3524, 3810 according to Holy Soap is now 3816! and 3918 is now 3921! I wish we had more reference points, like the definite 2000th episode or something like that. AnemoneProjectors 23:24, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Do you trust Digital Spy? I was on this page

http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/eastenders/news/a180592/potd-stacey-goes-into-meltdown/ and when I right clicked to see what the image name was called eastenders_3873_06.jpg so I assumed this episode was 3873 (aired 9 October 2009) the click a link on the bottom of the page brought me to some sort of episode guide http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/eastenders/spoilers/a179390/stacey-spirals-out-of-control/ not sure if there is a way to list the episodes or if its a matter of click previous episode and next episode. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 02:30, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Oh wait you can load the episodes toghther here the only thing is on http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/eastenders/spoilers/?f__s__spoilers%5B%5D=269 Digital Spy only start numbering them after Episode 3806 (15 June 2009) and it can take a while to load or maybe it just my connection http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/eastenders/spoilers/a158401/max-and-tanya-reunite/ The last episode of 2009 is 3922 (31 December 2009) http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/eastenders/spoilers/a190011/christian-urges-syed-to-come-clean/ Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 02:49, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Yes, I do trust Digital Spy. I noticed some time ago that on their old website, you could get the episode number by looking at images from an episode, but by that time I already had Radio Times confirmation so didn't need Digital Spy. Then I noticed with their new website, launced only recently, that they were putting episode numbers in, but again, we had Radio Times. I never thought to go back and try to find older ones. That's very helpful. I will add these as reference points. AnemoneProjectors 09:03, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Digital Spy has no episode for 27 December 2009, but I have it on my list. But we don't have it on User:Frickative/List of EastEnders episodes (2009). A mistake on my part? AnemoneProjectors 09:13, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

I checked Digital Spy for the double episode on 26 November 2009 and found out that it did indeed have a double number. So having done all that now, we have the following:

• 12 July 1994, 1000 is 1000 on list - spot on
• 31 January 2008, 3526 is 3524 on list, 2 out (but I don't know where I got that number from so could be ignored)
• 15 June 2009, 3806 is 3812 on list, 6 out the other way
• 22 June 2009, 3810 is 3816, 6 out as above
• 9 October 2009, 3973 is 3878 on list, 5 out
• 26 November 2009, 3899 is 3903, 4 out
• 25 December 2009, 3917 is 3921 on list, 4 out
• 4 March 2016, 5240 is 5244 on list, so still 4 out, meaning no problems between December 2009 and the present.

If there are 2 doubles missing, then we'd be consistently 6 out, meaning that possibly the 6 spin-offs aren't included. But there aren't any other doubles in 2009. AnemoneProjectors 09:49, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Here I have duplicated the list but removed the specials apart from Civvy Street, and now 15 June 2009 - episode 3806 - is spot on, 9 October 2009 is one out, 26 November 2009 is two out, and then all the rest are two out to the end. That seems better to me, though then 31 January 2008 is 8 out, but I may just need to change the "Pretty Baby" article. AnemoneProjectors 09:58, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Great work, we can compare both list now. I was looking at EastEnders Live 19 February 2010 Ep 3952. we can also use that as a reference point for 2010 as its referenced to BBC New. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8523517.stm I will added it to both lists Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 11:59, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Nice one. AnemoneProjectors 12:23, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I found some episodes missing from my list in 2009, and now in one list they are consistently 5 out, and in the other list just 1 out. I think there may be one other missing, I'll keep checking. AnemoneProjectors 13:07, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234: I found another missing one. Here are some of the ref points according to the list with the spin-offs excluded

• 1000 on list = number 1000
• 3518 = 3526 (I must have got the wrong number! so ignore that! I'll change the article.
• 3806 = 3806
• 3973 = 3973
• 3917 = 3917
• 3952 = 3952

Meaning actually they all now match! Are we agreed then that Civvy Street is inluded but other spin-offs are not, and the first episode with a double number is 26 November 2009? AnemoneProjectors 13:23, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

The answer is clearly a "no" based on the mistakes that have been found below. @Kelvin 101: I've now also created this to show ALL hour-long episodes as having two numbers, to see what happens there. AnemoneProjectors 21:55, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Another good idea sound like your covering all the angles. I am sure we will have the answer soon. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

Thanks. So any updates will need to be made in 3 or 4 places. The only angle not covered is all hour-longs having two numbers and all spin-offs included. But in that new list the numbers are only 1 out at the moment. Just have to see how it goes. AnemoneProjectors 08:07, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Schedule changes

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi do you think it's worth putting a note about schedule changes by the appropriate episode, I have identified a few below they all seem to be when a football match is on. Although i'm not sure about the last one with EastEnders being scheduled for 7:30am I have asked Genome about it.

• http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/1994-07-05#at-19.30
• http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/1988-06-21#at-18.35
• http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2006-06-26#at-19.30
• http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2006-06-27#at-19.30
• http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2006-06-30#at-19.30
• http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2006-07-04#at-7.30

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 23:49, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Yes, I think it there's any change, it's worth mentioning, but making sure that these were the actual broadcast times... if you look at them, they all seem to have two entries, because I remember back in those days, they didn't know if BBC 1 or ITV would show the football, so they'd have two schedules. If it's after 27 July 1998, check BARB for the actual broadcast times. For example, http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2006-06-26 has EastEnders at 19:00 and at 19:30, and BARB indeed shows that it went out at 19:00. See also User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (2014) where I've put notes for 3 July 2014 and 24-31 July 2014, and also 5 July 2013 in User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (2013) has a note about a change of broadcast time, although someone (you or Soaper) changed it from part of the short summary (where it should be) to a footnote, with the time being changed by one minute, despite BARB saying otherwise. This wasn't a schedule change, it was just that they showed it as soon as they could, which was at 9:46 pm. I've changed this one back. There's also no rule over whether we should use 12- or 24-hour times, but we should be consistent and shouldn't change from one to the other just for the sake of it. This already used 12-hour times, as do all the lead sections that have already been written, so we should use the 12-hour clock. See MOS:TIME. AnemoneProjectors 09:38, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Regarding schedule changes, have a look at what I've done in 2016 where there have been episodes shown outside of the normal times. AnemoneProjectors 09:31, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234:Hi do you think it's overkill to mention a different air time if it's due to the Christmas or New Year Schedules and not a sporting event. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 22:09, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: No I think it's fine to mention every change of day or time and the reasons. AnemoneProjectors 09:04, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Main Episode List

@AnemoneProjectors:Hi I have added the dates in on your episodes list from 3328 9 March 2007 to 3916 31 December 2009. I have also moved all the numbers up as 9 March did not have a number. Do you think we should go back to the auto number list but for the double episodes lay it out like this

1. 25 December 2009
2. Number part of double episode, date above.
3. 26 December 2009

or are you happy with the manual list as well. I have put all the dates into excel with the manual list so we can move about the manual list easier. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:35, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

Oh thanks. I don't think it matters, I put placeholders in and we know what that means so it's fine, no need to change it as it's only for our reference. Oh wait, you took out my 3918 placeholder. No, I'm putting it back. You should only add dates, don't change any other text. Thanks. AnemoneProjectors 22:20, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: In that list, please don't change numbers like 3910/3911 to 3910/11, because I might want to search for 3911 and won't be able to find it. Thanks. You spent time changing numbers but there are still two numbers missing in 1998, so it doesn't matter. The manual list can probably go, but it might as well stay because you can spend time on better things, we can just ignore it knowing it's wrong. As long as we have some true reference points on that list, which are currently 1000, 3918 and also 3526, I need to find out where I got that number from because it doesn't match at all but I must have got it from somewhere when I wrote Pretty Baby.... - just don't change anything apart from adding the list of dates - all it was meant to be was a complete list of episode dates - placeholders for doubles added to help the numbers match up. AnemoneProjectors 22:29, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

Production numbers

I'm going to make a radical suggestion. When looking for information on when EastEnders reset its episode numbers, I found this about when The Bill reset its numbers. From that, I looked at The Bill (series 25), and saw that they have an initial column for the number of episodes (in that series) and then the final column is for the production code. We could do this!

No. overall	No. in year	Original air date	Running time	Directed by	Written by	Viewers (millions)	Prod no.
????	1	1 January 2016 (2016-01-01)	30 minutes	Toby Frow	Anya Reiss	8.09	5202
On Mick and Linda's wedding day, their son Lee is missing; when Mick and Lee's girlfriend Whitney find him, Whitney says she did not mean it when she previously said she wanted to end their relationship, and they hug. Mick's brother Dean arrives at the wedding venue, and his mother Shirley tells him not to ruin it for them, but he says he is there for her, because she tried to drown him after discovering he is a rapist. They argue by the side of a lake where she attempts to call the police, but when Mick sees them, Dean jumps in the lake, taking Shirley with him. Meanwhile, Roxy decides to leave the country following Dean's attempted rape, but her mother Glenda and sister Ronnie try to convince her to stay, and Denise receives a visiting order for her former husband Lucas, who is in prison.

That's how it would look. But we'd have to know exactly how many broadcasts there had been (and we'd have to decide if we count Civvy Street etc), and then we could put in the episode numbers (production codes) when we know them (and we only know a handful of them before 2009, and we'd have to put in the reset numbers and then find out when the reset stopped... that's complicated!). I only suggest this because of the difference between episode numbers and number of episodes. We currently go by episode numbers - but then again I reckon so does the BBC, they would probably say the 5000th episode was episode 5000. The reason I know this is on "EastEnders Greatest Cliffhangers" for the 25th anniversary, they said there had been 3918 episodes, and that's where I got that magical number of 3918! So we should probably do the same and just forget I mentioned anything :) AnemoneProjectors 12:20, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

And what Kelvin said about EastEnders Live having its number referenced as the number of episodes by BBC News! AnemoneProjectors 12:29, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi just had a quick look "EastEnders Greatest Cliffhangers" for the 25th anniversary your right 3918 which was 2010 and then I watched the EastEnders: 30 Years of Cliffhangers and they have update it 4987 which was 2014. I really hope they have a digital copy of all the episodes and those tapes in the show are only for nostalgia. I am not sure we can pin point the exact date it refers to though Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:58, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Indeed. 4987 was the last episode of 2014, according to us, and 3918 was the 2nd part of Christmas 2009. Not sure how I knew at the time it referred to that episode but I know I watched it live in 2010 and I know they mean that episode. Or maybe I knew the number first, I don't know. This doesn't matter though because we have sites like Digital Spy with the correct numbers. AnemoneProjectors 09:46, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Episodes being wrong

@AnemoneProjectors:Hi I have some bad new I have just went through 2002 and discovered a number of problems it means there has not been 220 episodes but 213. But there is a few more years to check, it might even itself out.

No episodes

• 22 September 2002 No episode

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2002-09-22#at-20.00

• 9 September 2002 No episode

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2002-09-09#at-20.00

• 6 October 2002 No episode

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2002-10-06#at-13.30

• 27 October 2002 No episode

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2002-10-27#at-13.55

• 3 November 2002 No episode

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2002-11-03#at-13.25

• 10 November 2002 No episode

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2002-11-10#at-13.40

• 11 November 2002 Only One episode not two

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2002-11-11#at-20.00

• 12 November 2002 Only One episode not two

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2002-11-12#at-19.30

Mislabeled

11 December 2002 should be 12 December 2002

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2002-12-11#at-19.30

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2002-12-12#at-19.30

Missing from list

• 14 November 2002

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2002-11-14#at-19.30

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 13:30, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

I've put this in a separate section if that's ok. I guess I was prematurely excited! I got that part of the list from tv.com but can't even find 2002 on there now, but IMDb seems to agree with you. Thanks for checking - can you update the lists accordingly if you haven't already? And keep going! It was so exciting to think it was all done! But we will get there! I'm glad I found the errors I did for 2009 though. We may well find that more hour-long episodes are double-numbered, or that the spin-offs need to be included! AnemoneProjectors 14:57, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Hi I have just finished 2003, yeah I too got excited but at least we will know is more accurate. All dates have been added to the main list and your sandbox list.

No episodes

• 10 February 2003 Only On episode not two

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2003-02-10#at-20.00

• 13 September 2003 No Episode

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2003-09-13#at-20.00

• 21 September 2003 Only One episode not two

"Perfectly Frank"? wrong place should be 21 September 2003 http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2003-09-21#at-20.00

• 26 October 2003 No Episodes (2 removed)

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2003-10-26#at-20.00

• 9 November 2003 No Episode

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2003-11-09#at-20.00

• 16 November 2003 No Episode

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2003-11-16#at-20.00

• 28 November 2003 Only One episode not two

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2003-11-28#at-20.00

Missing from list

• 24 February 2003

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2003-02-24#at-20.00

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 16:17, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

I took the spin-off dates from List of EastEnders television spin-offs so if you discover they are wrong, please correct them on there too :-) AnemoneProjectors 17:26, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:I have adjusted the date for Perfectly Frank that's the only one so far. I have finished 2004.

No episodes

• 25 January 2004 No Episode

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2004-01-25#at-15.05

• 1 February 2004 No Episode

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2004-02-01#at-15.20

• 22 February 2004 No Episode

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2004-02-22#at-13.55

• 29 February 2004 No Episode

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2004-02-29#at-14.50

• 7 March 2004 No Episode

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2004-03-07#at-15.25

• 28 March 2004 No Episode

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2004-03-28#at-15.00

• 4 April 2004 No Episode

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2004-04-04#at-14.10

Missing from list

• 23 September 2004 Missing from list

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2004-09-23#at-19.30

• 24 September 2004 Missing from list

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2004-09-24#at-20.00

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:42, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Finished 2005, only found episodes missing from the list which might start to even out the ones we had to take off.

Missing from list

• 1 February 2005

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2005-02-01#at-19.30

• 27 March 2005

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2005-05-27#at-20.00

• 5 July 2005

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2005-07-05#at-19.30

• 18 August 2005

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2005-08-18#at-19.30

• 17 October 2005

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2005-10-17#at-20.00

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:32, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: thanks for all this hard work. My current theory is that the episode numbers have were reset when the show went to 3 eps a week and again when it went to 4, and then someone had the common sense to re-reset them to what they really should be, and then assigned true numbers to all the episodes retrospectively, giving each 30 minute episode a number and each 60 minute episode two numbers. So I think it's likely that every double ep will hav a double number. That's just my theory. Finding all these missing episodes really helps with that. If I'm right, let's hope they included Civvy Street! AnemoneProjectors 09:46, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: You're welcome thats a good theory I still have to look into 2006 as the list says (213) but Genome say to (207), 2007 list says (208) genome says (209), 2008 List says (212) Genome says (210). But there is sometimes rare problems on Genome as the pages have been scanned using OCR sometimes it can misspell if the page is dirty or the font is different but I have only came across this twice. I was also wondering if a spin-off last more that half-hour should be counted as two and what about normal EastEnders Episodes that last 45 minutes, I come across one. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 12:08, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi just looked at Digital Spy Forum and they are also mentioning episode resets after they add an extra day.

• http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=376384
• http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1235249

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 12:14, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: You know, if you're sending three replies, one ping will do ;-) I was indeed reading a (different) DS forum when someone said there were 2 resets. I'm sure it's true, but not a reliable source. I knew there was one reset but didn't know there were two or the reasons, it makes sense. We'll ignore resets, I think. If you think Genome may have errors, it might be a good idea to just double check on IMDb or something like that. I would say a 45 minute episode counts as one - what was the date? There was a 70 minute episode in 2012, which counts as 2, and loads of 35 or 40 minute ones. AnemoneProjectors 13:10, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:I will remember too only ping once for next time thanks. The 45 minutes episode was 14 February 1999. I noticed on the 1999 page it says 1 April 1999 is 40 minutes long but can't find an episode for the date due to wednesday. I have finished 2006 I will make the adjustment to the lists, I also had a thought as its seems to be the Sunday Omnibuses that are being removed after I finish 2007 & 2008, I might see if there is some website that could take our list and workout a list of Sunday Episodes from our list then we can check if they are special Sunday episodes or Sunday Omnibuses

No episodes

• 1 January 2006 No Episode

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2006-01-01#at-10.50

• 15 January 2006 No Episode

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2006-01-15#at-15.00

• 29 January 2006 No Episode

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2006-01-29#at-14.15

• 19 February 2006 No Episode

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2006-02-19#at-14.45

• 20 October 2006 One episode not two

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2006-10-20#at-20.00

• 3 November 2006 One episode not two

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2006-11-03#at-20.00

• 15 December 2006 One episode not two

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2006-12-15#at-20.00

Missing from list

• 1 August 2006

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2006-08-01#at-19.30

• 3 August 2006

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2006-08-03#at-19.30

Mislabeled

• 24 March 2006

Double not two seperate episodes http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2006-03-24#at-20.00

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 13:40, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi Sandbox4 seems to match up? Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 13:54, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Sorry just discovered these Extended Episodes not listed havn't done 2007 or 2008 yet. Will have to wait see what happens after 2007/2008. I will add the notes/doubles to the list.

Extended Episodes

• 10 April 1998 (65 Minutes, Count as 2)

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/1998-04-10#at-20.30

• 9 July 1998 (65 Minutes, Count as 2)

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/1998-07-09#at-19.25

• 7 September 2000 (40 Minutes, Count as 1)

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2000-09-07#at-19.30

• 1 March 2001 (40 Minutes, Count as 1)

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2001-03-01#at-19.40

• 31 December 1999 airs twice not once (Second Episode 35 Minutes, Count as 1)

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/1999-12-31#at-17.30

• 31 December 2000 airs twice not once (First Episode 35 Minutes, Count as 1)

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2000-01-31#at-17.30

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 14:39, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Yeah just keep going. I just thought I'd try something and see if our episode numbers match with the ones we got from scripts following the resets, though I don't know in either case which would have been considered episode 1, but after the 2nd reset, I put 7 August 2001 as the first episode, and then I made 13 February 2007 the same as the script and 31 January 2008 was one out. This is based on my sandbox4 list. So this tells me there is an error in that period, and that the sandbox4 list should be the main one we need. AnemoneProjectors 17:15, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Finished 2007 it looks about even now. Will see how 2008 looks.

No Episode

• 21 January 2007

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2007-01-21#at-13.25

• 18 February 2007

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2007-02-18#at-15.15

• 25 February 2007

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2007-02-25#at-15.20

• 18 March 2007

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2007-03-18#at-14.55

Missing from List

• 22 January 2007

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2007-01-22#at-20.00

• 23 January 2007

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2007-01-23#at-19.30

• 19 March 2007

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2007-03-19#at-20.00

• 22 March 2007

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2007-03-22#at-19.30

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:11, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi I have finished 2008 let me know how's it looking so far at least theres more wrong ones removed now.

No Episode

• 12 August 2008

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2008-08-12#at-20.00

• 3 December 2008

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2008-12-03#at-19.30

• 10 December 2008

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2008-12-10#at-19.30

• 17 December 2008

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2008-12-17#at-19.30

Missing from List

• 25 June 2008

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2008-06-25#at-19.30

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:03, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Oh!!! With doubles is just one out! Could they have discounted Civvy Street? Or does 2009 need to be checked? AnemoneProjectors 23:20, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Wow I had a feeling we would end up 1 out, I will certainly re-check 2009 tomorrow. I have a way of converting all the dates to days of the week so we can check out Wednesdays, Saturdays and Sundays as there are unlikely to be a lot of these there is most likely a omnibus hiding in there somewhere or a misnumbered episode. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 01:04, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Initial results show 42 Wednesdays, 7 Saturdays and 12 Sundays. Will post list tomorrow afternoon. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 01:58, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

I have put the list here, I will check Sunday first then work my way back to Wednesday as there is a lot more of them Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk).

Hi this is what I have found, I have updated the lists. It looks like Sandbox4 matches. Let know if you agree.

Doubles Found

• 25 December 2005 (Double)

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2005-12-25#at-21.00

• 18 June 2008 (Double)

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2008-06-18#at-20.00

Episodes that did not air

• 30 October 2002 No Episode

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2002-10-30

• 11 December 2002 No Episode

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2002-12-11

• 1 January 2003 Only 1 Episode not 2

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2003-01-01#at-20.30

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 16:20, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: OMG IT WORKED!!! You are amazing :-) We have our definitive episode list now, we can add numbers to the year lists based on that, I'd start by correcting the existing ones. I'm also going to check all the characters for their episode numbers and correct/add where necessary. AnemoneProjectors 09:50, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Episodes being RIGHT

I put sandbox4 to the main list and deleted my other sandboxes as unneeded. But - Problem!!! The 2nd episode on 23 July 2012, with the Olympic Flame, is definitely episode 4466 (http://www.webcitation.org/697uC0ACP) but we have it listed as 4465!! AnemoneProjectors 13:01, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

I think 25 December 2010 is the problem - it was a double episode (http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcone/programmes/schedules/london/2010/12/25). Then there must be another mistake later on to reverse it. I'll investigate. AnemoneProjectors 13:11, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Found it! 15 March 2013 was the Comic Relief special, which didn't have a unique number. AnemoneProjectors 13:14, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: But I've spotted that 1 March 2005 is a double but we didn't give it a double number. That really messes things up again. AnemoneProjectors 15:18, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Also found an error with 9 July 1998. That fixes it, I think. AnemoneProjectors 15:23, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Well spotted, do you think we should have to hold off from numbering all the episodes on the year pages and character pages until we have all the year pages done as one wrong date could mean we have to re-number virtually everything Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 17:26, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Maybe. I've already started doing character pages, and already had to go and fix some of them. I'm just going to do the lot and if anything else comes up, I'll find any affected pages. Any further errors should be in pairs, but hopefully there aren't any more. I think we've done all the checks we can by now. AnemoneProjectors 18:01, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

I just wanted to put this here - I said earlier "Yes, I do trust Digital Spy. I noticed some time ago that on their old website, you could get the episode number by looking at images from an episode" and have found an example when going through character pages for episode numbers - this was sourcing Archie's date of death but clearly gives the episode number 3939, which also matches what we have. I thought it was worth keeping. AnemoneProjectors 22:09, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: Hi this is going to be really annoying, I found 1 episode that should be not be on the episode list and 2 that was missed of because I had an idea of a way to export all the EastEnders Air dates, so we know they are all definitely right from Genome using https://www.import.io/builder/magic/ and checking it againist the main list for an error. These results shown on https://www.diffchecker.com/5nvv6cia the main list is on the left and Genome on right. A breakdown is also shown below. Unfortunately we are now 1 out now, which must either be an omnibus or a double episode wrongly listed. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:17, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Wrongly listed episodes

• 31 December 2000 (Only one Episode)

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2000-12-31#at-20.00

Missing episodes

• 31 October 2002

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2002-10-31#at-19.30

• 12 December 2002

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2002-12-12#at-19.30

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:17, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Oh! Well, I thought I'd see what some other sources say and agree with you on those. At the moment it only affects a period of less than 2 years so I'm not that worried, it's not that annoying at the moment! It depends when the other error is... AnemoneProjectors 19:13, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Do you know what? I'm so worried now that you won't find any other errors and we'll have to resign to the fact that the numbers now do not include Civvy Street, meaning that they are all wrong from 1988 to 2002 and the 1000th episode is now numbered 999. So please find it, because I really don't want this to be the case! AnemoneProjectors 20:13, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I also found an extra episode, which I know isn't the news we want to hear.

• 31 January 2000 2 Episodes not 1 even though 3 are listed.

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2000-01-31#at-17.30

I am sure there is more errors, Episode 1000 is back up to its correct number. Although Pretty Baby is now 3519 but its should be to be 3517. So we are still 2 out. I will keep looking Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:28, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Also found another Hour Long episode

• 25 December 2004

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2004-12-25#at-20.25

Really need to find episodes that don't belong. I will keep trying. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 23:01, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Wow, this was unexpected. I'll let you finish before I make any more changes! Pretty Baby isn't really a reference point because I don't know where I got its number from and have changed it according to our list. The number might be right, but it's not confirmed, so July 2009 is our next reference point after episode 1000, which is a shame because it's such a big gap so it's really hard to know where the errors could be. It's a shame they did those resets, or the scripts would have the numbers we need! AnemoneProjectors 09:49, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Episode Numbering

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi looking at 31 January 2000 according to IMDB there was only 1 episode not 2 but its hard to tell on Genome http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2000-01-31 because they list 3 and they arn't label altertative schedule but looking at the Omnibus http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2000-02-06#at-13.00 there only seems to be 3 episodes for that week Mon,Tue, Thurs, not 4. Also on the old EastEnders site there no mention of it being a 2 parter http://web.archive.org/web/20060412153635/http://www.bbc.co.uk/eastenders/eastenders/episodes/episode_content/episode20001231.shtml

I also wanted to ask you how you went about getting the air dates from IMDB was it just a simple copy and paste or was there a way of extract them from the list reason I ask I want to compare dates to see if there is some IMDB don't have which may mean possibly there was no episodes on that day.

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

@Kelvin 101: If the omnibus was 90 mins or thereabouts, that would be a Monday, Tuesday and Thursday episode, so makes sense, the other days agree having checked them myself on Genome, it's just Monday. I would say go with one episode, as the 5.30pm episode is listed as being 5 minutes long! So it has to be an error. I think when I originally took the dates I started on tv.com and moved over to imdb later, and in both cases it was probably a copy and paste job - I started it in 2007! So checking against IMDb might be a good idea too. AnemoneProjectors 17:02, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Apparently I used tv.com up to 26 March 2007, then IMDb from 27 March 2007 to 11 September 2009, and from then on I used BBC Programmes, until I stopped at 1 January 2010. AnemoneProjectors 17:11, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Hi I have extracted all the IMDB dates and put them into a comparison list https://www.diffchecker.com/jba8zrlq Our List is on the left and the IMDB on the right interestly the IMDB does not have all the dates we do. So it a matter of sifting through. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:51, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

I found 1 episode wrongly listed 1 to go. Which will probably be the hardest one to find.

• 18 November 2011

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcone/programmes/schedules/london/2011/11/18#evening

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:10, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Here is also a comparison of our list vs TV.com's list https://www.diffchecker.com/ieza9ujx

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 01:02, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

TV.com has loads missing, I can't have used that as a source! I thought IMDb would be quite accurate but clearly not! Well done for finding that error. We now appear to be 2 out at 15 June 2009 and 19 February 2010, but only 1 out at 4 March 2016, so that would mean 2 to remove before 15 June 2009 and 1 to add after 19 Feb 2010. Is it 23 November 2011? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b017mszc http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcone/programmes/schedules/london/2011/11/23#evening AnemoneProjectors 08:09, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

I added 23 November 2011 and changed the 2011 page too, which was also wrong, though the character list had characters listed for 23 November! AnemoneProjectors 08:18, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Have a look at 19 March 2007! Genome has an episode http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2007-03-19 but the schedules don't http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcone/programmes/schedules/london/2007/03/19 because of Match of the Day. AnemoneProjectors 09:04, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi your right I extracted all the 2007 dates from EastEnders site https://www.diffchecker.com/oll6tiww and that is the only one not on their list. I will remove it and email Genome to check as they said they want to know about a potential errors. I wonder if the Sunday Omnibus matches up. Also well done for finding 23 November 2011, how did you manage to find it? Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 23:11, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Genome has the omnibus as a four-episode one. The schedule doesn't show how long it was, but I suspect in reality it was three episodes. I found 23 November 2011 by looking at one of your diffcheckers for episodes after 19 February 2010 that could be missing, and found it that way. You had already removed 18 November 2011 as being wrong. I've also looked at the diffs for episodes upto 15 June 2009 but can't find anything. We're just looking to remove one episode before 15 June 2009. I hope it's not Civvy Street. AnemoneProjectors 08:19, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I found another schedule for the Omnibuses on 25 March 2007, I just changed London to north_west http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcone/programmes/schedules/north_west/2007/03/25 it agrees with Genome that it ran for 1 Hour 50 Minutes.

Haven't really turn up anything major I have been extractring dates for 2006-2009 https://www.diffchecker.com/wdxdibtt and 2010-2015 https://www.diffchecker.com/jaddjdgs the only really information I have turned up is 25 October 2012 was listed twice but there was an episode on 26 October 2012 so that dosn't really alter the amount of episodes overall and I also list any episodes that are not doubles with Part 1 and Part 2. Although the EastEnders site does not have all episodes for 2006. I want to try and look prior to 2006 but the only real source is Genome as we have tried TV.com, IMDB.com, episodeworld.com and tvguide.co.uk. We might just have to crack on with the year guides and hope we spot the error along the way. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:44, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I was confused about 25 October 2012 because I added it at the time here but looking at the ref at the time here it was clearly just a typo. Have you contacted the BBC at all? They might be the only people who can answer the question on what happened to the episode numbers following the third resets (i.e. the time they restored the numbers to follow on consecutively from 1 to 5000+) and if it included Civvy Street. AnemoneProjectors 18:14, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Um, if it helps, Colin Brake's book "EastEnders: The First 10 Years" lists episode numbers at the back, with writers and directors. 952 aired 07/04/94 and the new episode 1 aired on 11/04/94. It lists up to ep 88 (31/10/94). However, to complicate matters, Civvy Street is not mentioned and the episode does not appear in the table. HTH! Stephenb (Talk) 18:32, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

More info... Your episode numbers begin to diverge from the book at 194. Brake lists those two (25/12/86) as 194a and 194b. Later, there is a 298/298a, 300/300a (31/12/87), 358/358a, 372/372a, 818/818a (24 & 25/12/92), 922/922a. I guess these might help determine discrepancies between reported episode numbers post the reset? Stephenb (Talk) 18:41, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Stephenb: Hi AP, it was a good while ago I sent it, coincidentally its came back today they basically gave me a brush off speech, they didn't seem to want to give specific information such as double episodes counting as two etc. Their response is below.

"Regarding your further queries, the production team provided the following data: They have had 5242 episodes since the series began. They work at roughly 208 episodes per year."

Thanks Stephenb I didn't know the first EastEnders: The First 10 Years listed episodes, I have actually ordered the book so that will be an added bonus when I get it.

Failing us not being able to work it out we might is to email BBC Studios studiosandpostproduction@bbc.co.uk or ring the EastEnders Helpdesk number 020 822 87777. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:12, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Looking at 1994-2009 https://www.diffchecker.com/a1kbntcc were the problem is maybe it has something to do with Alternative Schedules 25 June 2008 has already been removed but it shows that the episode sypois is the same for the 26 June 2008 and the Sunday Omnibus shows only 4 episodes not 5. There might be another like that one we need to find. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 22:30, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

So it says that 12 July 1994 is episode 1000 in EastEnders the First 10 Years and this advert https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJLGEE-VeJo seems to confirm that. As well as http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/a0bf4b41a66340f0b28de94cf3bca76f Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 12:18, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101 and Stephenb: You know, I thought this was going to be a simple process! I was actually thinking of buying "EastEnders: The First 10 Years" recently but haven't got around to it yet. I think the numbering before the resets doesn't matter too much, it's the number after the third reset, giving us the numbers we have now, which are the numbers we want to use. 12 July 1994 was episode 1000 back then, but is it still episode 1000 now? If Civvy Street is no longer counted, then it would be 999. How can we ever determine this? Get the BBC to send us a complete list of episodes? From their brush off email Kelvin received, they clearly won't be doing that! AnemoneProjectors 14:37, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Stephenb: Hi I have just got an email back from Genome about 19 March 2007. Remember we were not sure about this date because Genome had three episode listed and the BBC schedule said it didn't air. The reply is below.

"Eastenders was scheduled in RT, but Match of the Day Live actually went out – it was an FA Cup Replay, which is why it was unscheduled. It’s looking like there was a single episode shown on the 20th, with a double-length edition on the 22nd to get things back on schedule. We are sticking with what was in RT for the moment but when we get to the stage of putting what actually went out we will have the full details on the Genome site."

Also found these old radiotime pages not sure whether I have the dates right. Can you take a look please.

4265 - 18 August 2011

• http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/kmshj/
• http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b013gnk5

4293 - 4 October 2011

• http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/nb87h/
• http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b015mszp

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:05, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

So 22 March 2007 may have been a double episode? I'm not sure you have the right dates for those ones - the first one has Mitchell Hunt credited as Lee - he was in 4 episodes, 15, 16 19 and 29 August 2011 but not 18. The other one has Craig Moon arriving in Walford but the BBC page you linked doesn't mention him. Must be close though. I don't have time to try to find out the right dates, but we have the reference points before then from 2009 so we know all the correct numbers for 2011. AnemoneProjectors 19:55, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Stephenb:Hi I was looking on TV Rage and they seem to have more accurate dates than IMDb https://www.diffchecker.com/8bqp12ak although they don't list Civvy Street as an episode but as a spin-off. Also found these fan transcripts http://www.oocities.org/tvtranscripts/eastenders/index.htm on the pages they seem to mention the reset although not reliable off course. Also talking about the reset this link http://forum.dstv.com/archive/index.php/t-89.html mentions an complaint email to the BBC then they email back and referenced Episode 1527 but this might acutual be an overseas airing. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 01:50, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I don't think it's significant that TV Rage don't count Civvy Street - most probably don't even if the BBC do. Looking at the diff the first thing I noticed was 20 February 2000, which is a Sunday, but Genome has a 1-hour episode for that day, the 15th anniversary http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2000-02-20. We've already discussed the 15th anniversary episode, you said Genome also had it on 27 February 2000, but I worked out it was actually 20 February 2000 - is there some reason we haven't added it to our list? As we are currently 2 out as of the 15 June 2009 reference point, it would really help if this is a missing episode from our list. TV Rage also lists 1 October 2000 but that's The Return of Nick Cotton, and a few others we don't have but they may be the other spin-offs or other errors. AnemoneProjectors 09:29, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Oh wait, if we add 20 February 2000 as a double, that would make us 4 out! AnemoneProjectors 09:45, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

July 1998 is confusing me at the moment. Genome has 9 July 1998 as a 65-minute ep, 10 July as 15 mins, Saturday 11 July 1998 as 10 mins and Sunday 12 July 1998 was the world cup special. I'm guessing there were alternate schedules, hence the strange times - were they 30 min eps? Also, BARB only has ratings for three episodes that week (Monday, Thursday and a Friday "Special"). I'm now wondering if the Sunday episode shown as part of "World Cup 98 Final" may not have had its own unique number. I'm currently checking BARB for 1998 to 2009 to see if they have any differences in episodes, as they report on what actually happened rather than what's scheduled to happen. AnemoneProjectors 12:27, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: is there an easy way I can extract the data from BARB? I've found one anomaly so far but it's taking ages! AnemoneProjectors 13:04, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Hmm, according to BARB, 10 July 1998 was 15 mins - it went out at 1959 and then The Cruise Special went out at 2014, so Genome is right. BARB has nothing for 11 July 1998 but that could just mean it got less than 5.37 million viewers. The 10 and 15 min eps might not have unique numbers. AnemoneProjectors 13:16, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Hi thats a good point about the World Cup 98 Final episode, I agree I think episodes within other programmes such the world cup or even comic relief and Children in need wouldn't count. Genome have told me they will be adding all the information about alternative scheduling but no date when this will happen. Looking at the repeat for the Friday and Saturday on the Sunday it does look strange that it's 25 minutes. The tool I use to extract the data is Import.Io https://www.import.io/download/download-windows/ its really useful its free but I think you need to create an account. I find the extractor on the software does the job and you can also give it a list of Bulk urls to compile. I have only tested it with a few site though. It basic asks you what information you want and you click on it and it does the same for all the lines after that and you can added different information columns if you wish. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:56, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Oh thanks for that link, I'm downloading the software now. My gut would tell me that the World Up episode, as a full-length episode, would have a proper number but the two before it being 10 mins and 15 mins might either both not have numbers or might share a number between them. Hmm, I don't know how we can ever know! AnemoneProjectors 16:18, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

I can't seem to get it to work with barb, is it because the barb site is tricky or I just can't work out how to use the software? AnemoneProjectors 16:42, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Yeah I know what you mean it hasn't exactly been straight forward process of making a list of episodes. Found this promo clip I think its from the 98 World Cup https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4L2erJx6EM would have been helpful if then mention how long the episode was. Can you please tell me the link for BARB and I will see if it works with it and if so I will give you a step by step. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 17:01, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: All the BARB stats are found on this page [3], I reckon it probably won't work though. That promo doesn't seem like it would be about the World Cup episode though. AnemoneProjectors 17:48, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Hi unfortunately that will probably not work because it's not on a static page. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 18:25, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Not to worry, I'll continue manually! AnemoneProjectors 18:42, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Oh no, I've found a 55-minute episode on 27 November 2003! http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2003-11-27 AnemoneProjectors 12:56, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Good find, I would assume we be round the 55 minute to 2 episodes? Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 13:07, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I've added it to the list as a double, making us now 5 out, so it's a real nightmare. I found it by going through BARB - it's going to take me too long to check each individual episode so I'm just checking the number of episodes on BARB for each week to make sure they match. That week there were 5 entries, but where some episodes are an hour long, both halves are listed with different start times and different ratings! So that one episode had a 1935 start and another 2001 start! But I checked Genome and it confirmed a longer episode. I'll keep going, not found anything that goes in our favour yet. AnemoneProjectors 13:16, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

It's ok saw the note on the list, I wonder where those 5 mistakes could be. I was looking on BARB on BBC One 1998 29 Feb-6 Mar. I am confused number 8 is it saying there was any episode on Fri 6 March and I am sure there was no 29 Feb in 1998. Am I reading it right? I don't see a listing http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/1998-03-06#at-19.30 Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 13:17, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

Barb ratings start in July 1998, but when you go to 1998 it goes a bit funny, giving you the weeks of the year you were previously looking at, so you'll have to click on another month for it to refresh properly! AnemoneProjectors 16:08, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I just sent a message to the BBC to ask them update the EastEnders scripts page as the episodes numbers listed are episode reset numbers and not overall numbers. I did also ask if they can't update the scripts themselves if they could update the scripts page with the overall numbers and their air date. If they do updates these then we should have more reference points. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:34, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I don't think they'll do that because it's the number as written on the original script when it was written, but you never know - good luck :-) What I would like the BBC to do is just compile a complete list of episodes - or to get http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006m86d/broadcasts completely completed. AnemoneProjectors 19:39, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I would like them to also do that but currently they have said that http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006m86d/broadcasts is only for 2009+ and Genome is for anything prior. But as you say they should have it all in one place. I found this page http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/1729430.stm with 25 December 2001 (2 episodes) figures do you think these are overnight figures. I can't remember how long it takes for actual figures to be released. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:33, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: The sad thing is that Genome doesn't seem to be 100% reliable, or we wouldn't have all these problems! BARB releases official ratings after 8 days, I think, so best to use the BARB site for all ratings, news sites tend to give overnight ratings. AnemoneProjectors 21:18, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: It's a shame we couldn't visit the BBC Written Archives. http://www.bbc.co.uk/informationandarchives/access_archives/bbc_written_archives_centre#heading-visiting-the-bbc-written-archives-centre I am sure they would have it all there. I have emailed them on the off chance they will help although I doubt it. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:54, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I think Wikipedia counts as a "commercial project" so it should be possible to visit. Well I've now checked the BARB site from 1998 to 2009 and can't find any mistakes we might have made in that period. Which is really annoying. The only episodes they BARB doesn't have are 11 July 1998 and 12 July 1998, but 12 July would have come under the World Cup and the other one may not have had enough viewers, or the episode wasn't long enough to register. AnemoneProjectors 21:57, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I have had an idea just not sure how to execute it I have done a search on Digital Spy and have found this is the first episode entry http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/eastenders/spoilers/a8138/friday-4th-january-2000/ all the EastEnders episode pages seem to start with http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/eastenders/spoilers/ I know the episode numbers don't appear until 15 June 2009 - episode 3806 but if we could extract the data then we could possibly compare it to what we have with Genonme and hopeful work out an errors it just getting the data that is the tricky bit. If there is no errors then that would mean it would be somewhere before 2000. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:20, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Good idea. That episode is actually 4 January 2002, and it seems the next one they have is 1 April 2002. But hopefully they have them all from April 2002 onwards. AnemoneProjectors 21:58, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Your right it is 2002 I must have been looking at the page date rather than air date, Until I can find a way to extract the air dates I have save the page to this PDF.

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/eastenders/images/c/c2/Soap_Spoilers_-_Digital_Spy.pdf/revision/latest?cb=20160320215946 So at the very least we can see the dates. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

I thought it was 2000 at first, it was the 2000 in the url, but refers to the time 20:00! AnemoneProjectors 22:49, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I managed to find a way to extract the dates from Digital Spy https://www.diffchecker.com/ctiyscov although I am concerned though that they have quite a lot of dates missing. I am not sure if there is anything on the list useful yet as I haven't had a chance to go through it in depth. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 01:37, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Looks like the list didn't load properly in the first place, or the extraction didn't work. For example, they do have all the 2015 episodes, here's 25 June 2015, which doesn't show up on that side of the diff. AnemoneProjectors 09:08, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I will take another look, the 10 Years Book arrived today it looks really good I will try make a few notes later. I did notice something strange though in the book it say the Writer and Director for 11 April 1994 is uncredited. thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

@Kelvin 101: Strange! 11 April 1994 was the first episode when they added a third episode, so is probably the second episode 1. AnemoneProjectors 15:30, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

I've just discovered that EastEnders Wikia have some episodes. It's not a reliable source but I thought I'd compare. They only have 1985, 1990, 1994, 2009, 2013, 2014 and 2015

• 1985 matches our list perfectly
• As of 1990, they are one out (e.g. 20 February 1990 is 526, we have it as 527). I suspect they aren't counting Civvy Street
• In 1994, they are still one out
• Then in 2009, 28 April 2009 is their 3602, our 3784. Way out.
• From 2013, they match exactly.

So they've clearly used some unreliable list to get it so wrong in 2009, but they've used the correct numbers from where we know what the exact correct numbers are (their first ep after confirmed numbers from 15 June 2009 is in 2013). Worth checking, but not helpful in the end. AnemoneProjectors 15:42, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Yeah EastEnders Wiki is a good website, I am an Administrator there but most of the information about Episodes was added before my time I found another way of copying the Digital Spy air dates only trouble is sometimes synopsis came with it I did plan to put it on my userspace but but in an error I put it on yours User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes/Spy when I was looking at the list sorry. You don't have any ideas on how to remove the synopsis do you? Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 16:27, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: No worries about it being in my userspace. I'll see what I can do with it. AnemoneProjectors 16:41, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Actual now I am looking at it 29 June 2015 is still missing, it might be not all the episode are not listed on thier list http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/eastenders/spoilers/?f__s__spoilers%5B%5D=269 Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 16:48, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Well it's now just a list of dates but in the wrong format and also the wrong order. AnemoneProjectors 17:04, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

The list is sorted! Now can be compared. AnemoneProjectors 17:33, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi wow thats amazing here the comparrison https://www.diffchecker.com/t1krpom7 will have a look through. Thank Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:34, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: It's amazing what you can do when you know the right Excel formulas! They still have loads of episodes missing but nothing seems to stand out in what they do have. What do you think? AnemoneProjectors 20:15, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi looking at the table like you say nothing stands out I was looking at the 10 Year book and though I would share this information. I have put it in a table as it's easier to read. I haven't check all the airdates but like Stephenb said Civvy Street does not appear. By my count there is 952 episode before reset, then to get to 12 July 1994 there's another 41 that 952+41= 933 + 7 other episodes labeled A or B thats now 1000 without Civvy Street. So civvy Street does not need to be include its just finding that one episode date in the book. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 22:17, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Episode #	Airdate	Notes
1	19 February 1985	First episode
194A	25 December 1986
194B	25 December 1986
298	24 December 1987
298A	25 December 1987
300	31 December 1987
300A	31 December 1987
358	21 July 1988
358A	26 July 1988
372	13 September 1988
372A	15 September 1988
818	24 December 1992
818A	25 December 1992
922	23 December 1993
922A	25 December 1993
952	7 April 1994	Last episode before reset.
1	11 April 1994	First episode of reset
88	31 October 1994	Last episode in book

Sorry it looks like in the book the list was mess up it not 88 episodes as of 31 October 1994 it 87 they missed a number of so it looks like Civvy Street would have to be included to make the numbers up to 1000. The mistake is below.

• Ep9 28/04/94
• Ep11 03/05/94

952 (episode pre reset)+ 40 (episode post reset) = 933 + 7 other episodes labeled A or B thats now 999. looks like Civvy Street is here to stay.

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 22:51, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Thanks for doing that. It's interesting. We kind of knew Civvy Street would have to stay to make episode 1000 the 1000th episode, but there have been three resets: when a third episode was added, when a fourth episode was added, and at some point later to make the numbers back to what they may have originally been had there been no resets. This third reset may or may not include Civvy Street. My current feeling is that it doesn't, because we are 5 episodes out. AnemoneProjectors 09:31, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Thought I'd try something. If 11 April 1994 was number 1, then using the numbers from the scripts, 3 January 2000 should be number 872, but on our list it would be 933. So that's a pretty big difference. Even if at that point, they only counted the doubles as one, and the World Cup ones weren't counted, it would be 925. Even if two-parters had A and B on them, we're only down to 921. I can't get that to match at all. They must have had more As and Bs. Thought it might be a way of finding potential errors. AnemoneProjectors 09:44, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:I had a look and I created an a reset list User:Kelvin_101/EastEnders_Episodes_Reset I just noticed I made a mistake with original the reset 872. The writer Marc Peirson only seem to have a credit for 3 January 2000 on IMDB. But after searching Genome I came up with 16 September 1999 http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/95e141b7db9a4501a80ff0c1bad24610 I noticed it mentioned Matthew being in prison. So I searched through the script for Matthew and on page 12 it says "SCENE 872/6. INT. PRISON REC ROOM" and there's dialog between Matthew and a character named Gates. http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/writersroom/scripts/eastenders_872.pdf#page=12 only 3 out Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

I have found the exact dates for the others as well. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 14:08, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Also I have managed to find all the pages BBC Episode guide pages 2001-2008 all link are here User:Kelvin 101/BBC EastEnders Episode Links There are a few anomaly with the dates https://www.diffchecker.com/gall7r19 but they might misdated by the BBC. December 2008 was not on the old BBC site Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 17:29, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Wow. That looks like we are definitely right up to at least 16 September 1999. The second reset list is just one out. Maybe the reset started an episode later? BBC are missing 29 November 2002 and 29 July 2005. Both were definitely episodes, right? Assuming they are, I'm confident that to 16 September 1999 and from 11 December 2000 to 28 November 2008, and from 15 June 2009 to present, our list is spot on. We're just 5 out and we don't know why. All our doubles are definitely doubles? We haven't listed any omnibuse?. All I can think of is that the 3rd reset doesn't include Civvy Street, and the three special World Cup episodes, but that still leaves us 1 out. AnemoneProjectors 00:43, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

I've just added the oldest numbered episode I could find on the Radio Times website, could only match it to the correct date using the cast - it's the only episode a character called Warren is in. However, that episode is currently 6 out on our list while the others are 5 out. AnemoneProjectors 11:39, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:I found a slightly earlier one 6 May 2011 episode 4206 -http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/2jyx/eastenders--episode-4206 but I am confused as if we wanted to get to 4201 it should be by are list 28 April 2011 but Digtal Spy has 4201 at 26 April 2011 http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/eastenders/spoilers/a315052/zainab-resorts-to-desperate-measures/ Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 00:05, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Oh thanks. I assumed that because I couldn't find 4207, they wouldn't have any before that. I didn't look for 4206, only 4205, 4207 and 4208! ;-) Yeah I was saying Radio Times is one out there, I think Radio Times might be wrong. AnemoneProjectors 09:27, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

The reason I say that is that they are 1 out to Digital Spy at that point, but we know that what we have for DS in 2009 matches what Radio Times has for 2016, so Radio Times's numbers for 2011 look a bit wrong. Not that it matters. I was hoping to find even older ones on Radio Times than on Digital Spy. I've also tried looking in archives for Radio Times, and websites I used to use to get numbers from. It's a shame that tvtv.com wouldn't allow archiving, as that was the original site that I found numbers on - they might have gone back earlier too. AnemoneProjectors 09:32, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Hi I found some reset numbers on the old EastEnders site

Episode 676: (6 July 1998)

• http://web.archive.org/web/19980520053911/http://www.bbc.co.uk/eastenders/home.shtml

Episode 766: (25 January 1999)

• http://web.archive.org/web/19981203065147/http://www.bbc.co.uk/eastenders/home.shtml

Episode 970 (24 April 2000)

• http://web.archive.org/web/20000229050123/http://www.bbc.co.uk/eastenders/home.shtml

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:30, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Oh that's really well found. Put them in if you haven't already. Wondering if we should actually put these in the lists because they were the actual numbers of the episodes at the time. AnemoneProjectors 16:10, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi I have added the dates to the main list and the reset list User:Kelvin_101/EastEnders_Episodes_Reset#Reset_1 Reset 1 list 766 is 1 out and 872 is 2 out and 970 is 5 out. On Reset 2 962, 986, 1000, 1164 and 1369 are all 1 out. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 16:46, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Not too worried about those ones being out because they could have ended up being broadcast on a different date. AnemoneProjectors 16:55, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Omnibuses

Year	# INFAX Total	# Genome Omnibus	# INFAX - Omnibus	# Episodes (ours)	Notes
1985	136	45	91	91
1986	157	52	105	105
1987	159	52	107	107
1988	157	52	105	105	Includes Civvy Street
1989	157	53	104	104
1990	156	52	104	104
1991	158	52	106	105
1992	158	52	106	106
1993	157	52	105	105
1994	194	53	141	142	1 Sunday episode and 2 Alternative Schedules
1995	211	54	157	157	1 Omnibus aired on BBC2 and 1 aired on a Monday
1996	217	56	161	161	1 Monday Omnibus
1997	217	56	161	162
1998	220	60	160	164 (168 inc doubles)	4 doubles , 1 Alt  Schedules, 2 Sunday Eps
1999	223	56	167	169 (170 inc doubles)	1 double, 1 Omnibus aired Monday, 3 episodes on a Sunday.
2000	215	56	159	161	1  Alt Schedule, 2 sunday episodes, Omnibus in Two Two Parts (2 Parts  could count as 1)
2001	272	54	218	179	Omnibus in Two Two Parts
2002	312	57	255	209	Omnibus Five Two Parts
2003	287	54	233	209 (210 inc doubles)	1 double, Omnibus in Two Two Parts
2004	283	57	226	208 (212 inc doubles)	4 doubles, Omnibus Five Two Parts
2005	268	56	212	209 (211 inc doubles)	2 doubles, Omnibus Five Two Parts

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi remember a while ago we look at the numbers of INFAX http://web.archive.org/web/20060525104744/http://open.bbc.co.uk/catalogue/infax/series/EASTENDERS I have had another look and made this table it basically shows the number of episode INFAX reports, the amount of Omnibus found on Genome, INFAX episode number - Genome Omnibuses = the amount of episodes that should in that year and to the right of that the amount of episodes we have. Everything seem to match up 1985-90 then it starts to go a bit funny. Any ideas for the differences? Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

@Kelvin 101: I'd forgotten about Infax. How reliable is it? What stands out to me is how far out 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004 are. AnemoneProjectors 09:38, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:I would have expect the numbers to be accurate due to it being the BBC's database but they do deviate quite substantially from our numbers. Unless it includes repeats we are not aware of. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:03, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Hmm. Well, I'm stumped over that one. It's a shame Infax is offline and the drop-down lists aren't clickable through the archive, otherwise we might have some dates to compare. It's weird how some of them are really far out, and not just one or two. If it includes spin-offs, even that doesn't help correct it. AnemoneProjectors 08:46, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I know what you mean every time we seem to get close to understanding the numbering there's always different information. I have been in contact with a organisation called Kaleidoscope they are organisation interested in classic television and recovering lost episodes of television programmes. I mentioned to them about what we are trying to do with EastEnders episode list and they said they will send me over their records for the airdates they collect when they carried out research for their drama guide book. This may help us with determining if there was more alternative schedules that we are not aware off. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

@Kelvin 101: Oh that sounds like good news, any ideas on a timescale for that? Do you think the fact we are 5 out somewhere between 1994 and 2009 is down to alternative schedules? AnemoneProjectors 14:39, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I would imagine they would send as soon as they get the email, Its one possibly that it might alternative schedules. Although it would probably be two or three alternative schedules and maybe deducting some worldcup episodes. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

Hi they sent the list over https://www.diffchecker.com/gvegs2j6 I haven't had time to go through it all but it see, but would seem that their list has a lot of incorections on it but then again. It a shame we only really have Genome to check pre 2007 dates on. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:12, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

That was quick. A quick glance shows a few differences, a lot of which are that where we have a double episode, they have nothing. Other than that, there are some of ours not on their list, and some of theirs not on our list. I wonder how they did their research - what's their source? AnemoneProjectors 22:31, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:I assume it would be newspapers or possibly even the Radio Times. If it was an actual BBC episode list I would think there would be more similarity to our list. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 23:18, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

I've concluded that our list is the most accurate of anyone's! AnemoneProjectors 07:24, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I agree, I have tried going through all the Match of the Day Live editions prior 2009 but no luck in finding any clashes with EastEnders. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

@AnemoneProjectors: I was speaking to Genome and they are think of writing an article about BBC soaps. I mention about what we are trying to do with matching up the EE episode numbers and they said they will look at our episode list and the reset episode list for when then are carrying out the research for the article. I also mentioned if they could please look into the whether all hour long episodes count as two and if Civvy Street counts as an actual episode. Not sure when the article is planned for maybe in a few months time. That was nice of them I thought. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:58, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: That's really good of them. We might have to wait until then to continue working on our numbering. Until then, let's just carry on updating the lists without numbers, and if we find any wrong episodes it'll just hopefully be minor changes later. AnemoneProjectors 08:11, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi I emailed the BFI the other day to ask if they have a complete list of episodes. I heard back today, unfortunately they don't but but they did tell me that EastEnders has its own Archivist. I managed to find him on linkedin [4] and have sent an email. Hopefully they can help Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 11:53, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

locatetv.com episode reset numbering

@AnemoneProjectors:Hi is do you think locatetv.com reset numbering is reliable? I have added the earliest I could find to the reset list User:Kelvin_101/EastEnders_Episodes_Reset and the main list 18 April 2008 (1414) and a few others Kelvin 101 (talk) 01:04, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

Here is the link to the episode guide http://web.archive.org/web/20120208144837/http://www.locatetv.com/tv/eastenders/episode-guide

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 01:16, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Yes they look reliable as they are consistent with the rest of the 2nd reset numbers, being 1 out. However, I would say they didn't start using the 3rd reset numbers at all and just carried on with their own numbering, as we know the reset had reset by 2010. But leave the 2010 one there, it's a good reference point. AnemoneProjectors 09:09, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Just thought I'd mention that I found someone's website where they had added synopses of EastEnders episodes from 1997 to 2000 (plus a few in 1985), and I thought I'd compare. See https://www.diffchecker.com/0zxgoh53 - they don't have these:

• 23 April 1998
• The 3 World Cup episodes
• 14 July 1998
• 13 September 1998
• 14 September 1998
• 15 September 1998
• 17 September 1998
• 28 January 1999
• 31 December 1999

But does have:

• Extra 13 September 1999
• Extra 14 September 1999
• 15 September 1999

*17 September 1999

Their site is here [5] but is broken so easiest thing is to Google "site:www.angelfire.com/me/tvsoaps/ eastenders" or replace "eastenders" in the search with the month and year to find the page. Any anomalies? AnemoneProjectors 12:50, 3 April 2016 (UTC) AnemoneProjectors 12:50, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Hi I believe the 13,14,15 & 17 September 1999 has been mislabeled its September 1998 http://www.angelfire.com/me/tvsoaps/eastendersguide190.html as eveyrthing is labeled 1998 a part from thoose episodes. Found this as well, all dates seem to correspond to ours. Shame all the episodes aren't listed there.http://web.archive.org/web/19991122195117/http://www.bbc.co.uk/eastenders/update/archive_year.shtml Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:15, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

23 April 1998 is listed by the formatting made it really small http://www.angelfire.com/me/tvsoaps/eastendersguide188.html and 31 December 1999 is listed here 31 December 1999 http://www.angelfire.com/me/tvsoaps/eastendersguide206.html but its strange about 14 July 1998 + 28 January 1999, I will look into them. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:15, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Oh yes you're right about those September ones and the ones with small text. I used a data miner so didn't check the individual pages. Thanks for doing that! I've struck them out. AnemoneProjectors 20:53, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I notice the message on the list for 6 May 2011. I checked it against TV Locate at it agrees with Digital Spy.

• 4206 Radio Times http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/2jyx/eastenders--episode-4206
• 4207 http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/eastenders/spoilers/a316247/ian-and-janes-feud-spirals-out-of-control/
• 4207 http://www.locatetv.com/tv/eastenders/7111541

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 17:56, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Just rearranging your comment :) I've noticed the next RT one we have is also 1 out to DS. I wonder if we can find where they meet, because they agree as of today. AnemoneProjectors 18:37, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Forgot to ping too! Trying random numbers. They definitely agree at episode 4800. I think they do at 4700. Now I've run out of time but was going to go back in 100s and see what happened. I can continue later. AnemoneProjectors 18:44, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: 4 March 2013 Episode 4600 seems to match

• http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/vmcsm/eastenders--episode-4600
• http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01r55lj
• http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/eastenders/spoilers/a461061/phil-and-sharon-share-a-kiss/
• http://www.locatetv.com/tv/eastenders/season-1/7985274

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 22:23, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I found that RT and DS match at 4210, so double checked and RT does actually match the BBC for 4208 being 9 May 2011. So that was weird. I also believe they have 4206 as 5 May 2011 because it was written by Richard Lazarus, who wrote 5 and 6 of May, and credits Georgia Reece, who was in 3 and 5 May, so it can only be 5 May. So RT have no errors. I'm glad to see you've taken the World Cup specials as non-numbers. I agree. So we're now 2 out, Civvy Street could be one. AnemoneProjectors 10:38, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Finding the last two errors

I'm confident that now we only have to remove two dates from the list. One could be Civvy Street, so we may only need to find one error.

Looking at the reset list, reset 1 is correct at 822 but 1 out at 872 (however 826 is 1 out the other way!? An error?), so do we need to focus on 1999? The only thing in 1999 I can see is a double episode, but even if it was counted as 1 at the time, it looks like all doubles were counted as 2 when the 3rd reset was done, and I can't see that they would have missed one out. The numbers in reset 2 are all 1 out as well, but it could be as simple as 10 August 2001 was not the first reset episode. AnemoneProjectors 10:51, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:I am still concerned about why in the book 10 Years Episode 9 is 28 April 1994 but there is no episode 10 and episode 11 is 3 May 1994. I did assume this was a mistake but it would explain why the reset list is out by one. I have ordered the book "Eastenders Programme Guide" to see if they have 3 May 1994 listed as episode 10 or 11 and whether they include Civvy Street on that list. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 14:55, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Yes it could be that they were originally numbered wrong! I don't think I've heard of that book, is it the Inside Soap one by Josephine Monroe release in 1994? Even if it doesn't solve numbers/dates, it will be very helpful here because of its "year-by-year calendar of events". AnemoneProjectors 15:06, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Yeah Inside Soap that's the one, there is a full list of books here http://eastenders.wikia.com/wiki/Books_(Non-fiction) there is a book called "Essential EastEnders Scripts" but I think I read somewhere its only small extracts. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:23, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: It's on our list of EE books too. I just hadn't paid attention. I'm sure you'll let me know what you find out when you get it. AnemoneProjectors 15:36, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:I received Inside Soap Eastenders Programme Guide by Josephine Monroe today unfortunately it does not list airdates it only gives a synopsis of what happen each month. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 18:28, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

It can be used to write monthly synopses on our lists though :) AnemoneProjectors 21:45, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:I have just contacted the EastEnders Helpdesk they were not able to help me with the episode numbering. Strangely they said hour long episodes count as only one but we know from the script they count as two. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 14:29, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Oh no found another hour long episode 31 May 1999 http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/1999-05-31#at-20.00 Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

lol AnemoneProjectors 07:21, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: This is probably wrong but thought I would share it anyway, managed to make numbers match on this list User:Kelvin_101/EastEnders_Episodes_List_2 I figured what if they kept the same original way of numbering e.g) 194A and 194B and assume that the spin-off were included on the list but hour long episode before 2000 were not counted. Again this is just guesswork, let me know what you think thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:33, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: You know, you might have a point. I'll come back to you! AnemoneProjectors 18:40, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Might need to rethink the spin-off list list, I have found another two hour long episodes. It the gift that just keeps giving.

• 28 August 2000

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2000-08-28#at-20.00

• 18 February 2005

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/2005-02-18#at-20.00

Although now everything in Reset 2 List seems to match so it just Reset 1 List 11 April 1994 - 9 August 2001

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 18:02, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Is there a reason some hour-long episodes have 2 numbers and some don't? 1998 is 2 numbers, 1999 and 2000 are 1 number for each hour-long episode, but 2003 is back to 2. Would making them consistent make it better or worse? AnemoneProjectors 10:44, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi good point I am still playing around with the Reset 1 list for now. I have made the adjustments to the hourlong episodes. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 14:36, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I don't think it's right because it's not consistent between when a double counts as 1 or 2 and when a two-parter has an A on part 2 or not. My gut is that having hour long epiosdes as 1 episode within reset 1 is the right thing to do - which means between 676 and 699 we would need to add something back in - which again could be the world cup episodes - perhaps they were A B and C, or something like that. Then, between 822 and 872 we would need to remove something but there's nothing to remove. Between 872 and 970 we would need to remove 4 - this could be where the two parters come into play, but there's only 2 of those, not 4. Then between 1044 and 1064 we would need to remove another 1 - there is a 2 parter. Finally, between 1064 and 1091 we would need to remove 3, but there is only 1 2 parter. See User:AnemoneProjectors/sandbox - I've made all doubles 1 and all 2 parters 2. AnemoneProjectors 15:43, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I have had another look at the INFAX numbers and they seem to make a bit more sense now User:Kelvin_101/EastEnders_Episodes_Reset#INFAX. When you take 2 parts counting as 1 and added on extra programmes like EastEnders Revealed which they seem to count in INFAX. It does shows that, they 1998,1999 and 2000 hour long episode only count as one. I will try and finish off INFAX and try and tidy the table up a bit. I will have a look at your list. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 17:54, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Well I had a theory that if we managed to get all the numbers in the reset lists to match and then just copied that over to the main list, it might add up, but I did do that (User:AnemoneProjectors/sandbox and User:AnemoneProjectors/sandbox4) and it ended up being 15 out as of 15 June 2009 instead of 5 out! So that theory was clearly wrong! Argh! AnemoneProjectors 09:53, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

Airdates

@AnemoneProjectors:Hi I have used OCR on all the airdates in the First 10 Years Book to get all the airdates up to 31 October 1994 https://www.diffchecker.com/k7hret9u There are a few minor differences. It says 4 misnumbered dates and 1 missing episode but will need to look into them. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 00:07, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

According to Genome EastEnders did not air those days a part from one of them being an Omnibus. Worth a try I suppose. We do have all the airdates no I think. I am more convinced now its more about the way they are numbered. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 00:33, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I'm a bit confused. All I see are 5 date differences (and Civvy Street), not a missing episode. Is that our list compared to the book? I wondered if you'd actually checked all of Genome as well, because I had a feeling you would do that. Though would take a long time. I think you're probably right though, that it's to do with how the episodes are numbered and not that something is missing. AnemoneProjectors 09:25, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

If there is still any error though, I think it had to be between 31 October 1994 and 29 June 1998. AnemoneProjectors 09:27, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

Theories

Currently, our numbering is over by 5, meaning overall we need to remove 5 numbers. Here are some theories:

1. Third reset kept original numbers intact, i.e. numbers with A and B retained A and B. This removes 7 numbers from the list, making us 2 under instead of 5 over.
2. Spin-offs are included. There are 6 such episodes, which takes us to 11 over. Combined with theory 1, this takes us to 4 over.
3. Civvy Street is excluded. This removes 1, making us 4 over. Combined with theory 1, it makes us 3 under. Cannot be combined with theory 2.
4. World cup specials included one number, i.e. They were A B and C of a unique number. This adds 1 to the list, making us 6 over. Combined with theory 1, makes us 1 under. Combined with 2, makes us 12 over. Combined with 3 makes us 5 over. Combined with 1 and 2 makes us 5 over. Combined with 1 and 3 makes us 2 under.
5. Some hour-long episodes are counted as 1 number. The first was in 1998, and the last one that we can't be sure of is 2 April 2009, but that makes 31 doubles - we can't just assume the first 5 should be changed to fix our numbers, can we?
6. Some episodes where 2 went out in a day are A and B episodes as they were originally - up to 2009 there are 18 of them. However, it is an extension of theory 1, so wouldn't work.
7. Some combination of 5 and 6 and other theories!
8. They just made 5 mistakes somewhere, or did some of the above and made other mistakes. I don't think there will be mistakes though.

I'm not worried about making episode 1000 the 1000th episode - as it is referred to as the 1000th episode but it doesn't mean it has to be numbered episode 1000. None of these theories really work out, though. AnemoneProjectors 10:44, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Those are some interesting theories, I was looking at the A/B numbers again. I understand why Christmas episodes might be considered as two parts but I am wondering about July 1988 and September 1988 being two parts. As 21+26 July 1988 are not even in the same week. 13+15 September 1988 have two different writers/directors. Not sure those ones can be trusted. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 12:25, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

Episode #	Airdate	Notes
194A/B	25 December 1986	Two Episode on same day.
298/A	24 + 25 December 1987
300/A	31 December 1987	Two Episode on same day.
358/A	21 + 26 July 1988	This does not seem like a two-parter, not even in same week.
372/A	13 + 15 September 1988	This does not seem like a two-parter, Different Writer/Director for each episode.
818/A	24 + 25 December 1992
922/A	23 + 25 December 1993

Oh yeah forgot to mention the other day I emailed Dominic Treadwell-Collins to ask if he happened to have a full episode list. His secretary answered "we don’t have an official episode list that we can easily provide you with". Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 13:03, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I would trust what the book says, to be honest. Sounds like there is a difficult way of getting an official episode list. I wonder if the BBC Written Archives' Centre is the answer (Wikipedia might count as commercial research). If we could just see more script front pages... AnemoneProjectors 16:07, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

Another theory is that 27 November 2003 (50 minutes) counts as 1 not 2. AnemoneProjectors 18:12, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:I would love to visit the BBC Written Archives' Centre but I live nowhere near it. I think when Genome write the article then they will most likely use that centre to conduct their research. I still wonder if it's intentional on the first reset in the book that there is no episode number for episode 10. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

@Kelvin 101: I don't suppose you could scan the rest of the eps list in the book, could you? I keep forgetting about the Genome article, hopefully it will help us. AnemoneProjectors 21:37, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi yeah the lists from the book are here https://www.flickr.com/photos/30536759@N07/with/25861258164/

I apologise for the quality of some of the scans sometimes the directors/writers names don't come out clear, they need redone at some point. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 22:01, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for that, it's just so I can reference it as well :-) AnemoneProjectors 09:39, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi building on your theories, I have thought of a few. I am working on the assumption that the 7 A/B number are still present on the list. That leaves us with 2 episodes under.

• Theory 1: Count the 3 Worldcup episodes as 2. The first and second is only 15 and 10 minutes long that could count as one combined and plus the other one. Although I am not sure how long the third world cup episode was.
• Theory 2: Count the 3 world Cup episodes as 1 ABC and Civvy Street is an hour-long episode so could count as two numbers.
• Theory 3: Count the 3 world Cup episodes as 1 and there may still be an hour-long we haven't yet found .

Please let me know what you think of these theories. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 18:45, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I'll think more about it tomorrow as I don't have much time right now. We're over by 5 so need to remove 5 - theories 1&2 each add 2, but there might be some combination that works. I hadn't considered that Civvy Street is an hour long. anemoneprojectors 18:52, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi I should have really put next to all of them that the 7 A/B's have been deducting leaving 2 under and plus what the theory says. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:09, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Found another hour-long episode 18 February 2010 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcone/programmes/schedules/london/2010/02/18#evening

I deducted the 7 original episodes marked with a B from 5260 and then added on Civvy Street being an hour episode at the numbers seem to fit User:Kelvin 101/EastEnders Episodes List 2. Although I would have thought they would have consecutive numbering and not included A/B in the third reset but who knows maybe the did. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:14, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

It doesn't matter, I can work it out tomorrow. Yes maybe they did, it was one of my theories. Anyway, 18 February 2010 was an hour long but for some reason doesn't have a double number, Digital Spy 3951, next episode 3952. No idea why that is, but it means your List 2 is still 1 out. anemoneprojectors 21:17, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

I can't figure out what you did in List 2 to get it how you got it because when I tried it myself I ended up 2 out. But I've put that double back as a one number and made the World Cup specials all one number and it matches up all through. It's a total fudge, but it works. Like Einstein's cosmological constant. But that ended up being wrong ;-) anemoneprojectors 21:30, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Thinking about it, I'm not sure that they would have counted Civvy Street as 2 episodes. It looks to me like when they did reset 3, they only changed the episodes from reset 1 and 2 and left the rest as they were already, with A and B and Civvy Street as one episode. That means we need to add two episodes. Either we can find 2 more hour long episodes or we can fudge it with the World Cup episodes, making them a total of 2. anemoneprojectors 07:23, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I found this theory on Digital Spy Forum, it may help account for some the episodes that would need removed it would also possible corroborate for 18 February 2010 counting as only one.

• http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2019213
• http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2019213&page=2

"When they merge two eps to make a one hour one they usually count them as two separate episodes still, two writers are credited and each half retains its own episode number, which is why they count them as two. The merged ones are often merged at the last minute for scheduling reasons. If an episode is planned to be one hour long from the outset then it will count as one episode."

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

@Kelvin 101: Yes I was under the impression that two episodes pushed into one kept its double number but one episode planned as an hour had a single number - however I think there are some cases where a planned longer episode has a double number, like Pat's death. But what do you think of what I've done and what I said above? I think we need to try to find another 2 hour-long episodes between 1994 and 2009. anemoneprojectors 13:09, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I do agree Civvy Street is unlikely to count as two episodes. With regard to the world cup I am unsure if they would count as 2 if we could only find out how long it lasted for. I can't see it lasting a full 30 minutes if it's aired inside of the world cup. More likely 5 minutes which would bring the total time to 30 minutes if the 15 and 10 minute episodes was all film as one and split into three smaller episodes.

I will off course keep checking for more hour-long episodes 1994-2009. I wonder if it's worth cross checking all the post 2009 hour long episodes on Digital Spy to see how they are numbered in case there are other episode that do not count as two. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 14:50, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: You could be right about the World Cup special, it being short. I don't think it's worth checking anything after 2009 because the numbering we have is consistent from the first numbered episode on Digital Spy to the latest upcoming episodes on Radio Times and Digital Spy - the difference can only be before that first numbered episode of 2009, and I've been following the numbers "live" (so to speak) since August 2910 when I first discovered the numbers on Holy Soap, so there are definitely no errors after 15 June 2009. How are you checking for hour-long episodes? Manually? I was thinking of double checking everything but it seemed like a nightmare task! anemoneprojectors 15:14, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

By the way I thought it was worth checking Frickative's talk page archives to see if we had some discussion about episode numbers but all I found was "It looks like Holy Soap only goes back to mid-2009", a comment made in 2010, so it looks like even in 2010, we'd have got no further back than we are now in terms of confirmed numbers on websites. anemoneprojectors 15:24, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi have previously usally just search Genome using the keywords "EastEnders Hour" or "EastEnders Extended". Also when I add the directors/writers I check each episode manually. I have been meaning to suggest to Genome to add the runtimes on Genome entries like how they are on the BBC programme pages. I will take a look at Frickative's talk page archives. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:46, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: You don't need to look at Frickative's talkpage archives, I already checked, so don't waste your time. I know she and I talked about numbering and I found the discussion and it wasn't helpful to this project as we had no numbers prior to what we currently have. anemoneprojectors 15:58, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

BBC Archives email

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi just received this email from BBC Archives, seems promising.

"We hold a collection of Programme-as-Broadcast documents here (PasBs) which contain the basic production details for all BBC programmes, including the Episode numbers for EastEnders.

From checking these I can confirm that the episodes were numbered 1 to 952 from 19/02/1985 to 07/04/1994. Then the numbering system restarted again with the episode on 11/04/1994 being Episode 1, coinciding with the beginning of there being 3 episodes a week.

The Civvy Street episode on 26/12/1988 does not have an official episode number according to the PasB, but I have checked a few of the hour long episodes (not all of them) and it looks as if these were counted as two episodes with two numbers per episode according to the numbering system.

In 2001 they decided to start from 1 again, when it changed to 4 episodes a week. So the episode on 06/08/2001 is Episode 1 according to PasBs.

Finally, in 2009 they decided to go back to the original numbering system - so the episode on 13/04/2009 is listed as number 3770 on the PasB (this is counting back from the first episode in 1985). This then matches up with the numbers on your table from the Radio Times.

I hope this is enough information to answer your query. It would be too time-consuming for me to check every special to confirm whether it counts as 1 or 2 episodes but if you have a few specific dates you would like the episode numbers confirming I can check these for you."

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 18:10, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Wow. I've put this in a new section so it's easier for me to find. I can't look at the details right now but will do later or at the weekend. anemoneprojectors 18:25, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

I have been trying to think of a way of explaining the absence the 3 episodes and the only thing I can think of is the World Cup episodes must be included but we can ask this to be checked but if not it maybe be the case of 3 more Hour-long episode still to be found. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:53, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: As they've offered to check specific dates for you, I'd suggest you ask if they can check those World Cup specials. At least we will know either way. anemoneprojectors 21:54, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Just found a different archive version that has Alfie Moon arrives. http://web.archive.org/web/20081231180052/http://www.bbcprograms.com/pbs/catalog/eastenders/eastde22.htm I can only guess they must have messed the page up somehow. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

@AnemoneProjectors:Hi I heard back from the written archives, they could only give me the reset number as that is what is on the scripts.

"Glad to help – I’ve now had a look at the PasBs for the dates you have listed below and can confirm that they list the episode numbers as follows:

• 20 November 2002 – Ep. 270
• 21 November 2002 – Ep. 271
• 29 November 2002 – Ep. 276
• 16 December 2002 – Ep. 285
• 17 December 2002 – Ep. 286

Hope this helps with your project,"

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 17:47, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Yeah I only expected them to give you the numbers as they are on the scripts. I can't remember why we wanted those dates now :-) do they help at all? anemoneprojectors 20:59, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

These match your reset list so it's made no difference. Did we need them to check any others? anemoneprojectors 21:02, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: None I can think of, as the numbers are mostly available on Getty. Although on the reset list when it gets to the 25 March 1997 it should be 469 but the list shows it's to be 467. I really need to keep checking the numbers as its correct up to 28 December 1995. This may help us to find what need to be removed on the main list. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

@Kelvin 101: Oh I didn't realise the reset list was 2 out, though I can't see what it could be between 28 December 1995 and 25 March 1997! And it's still 2 out on 9 August 1999, but then just 1 out on 5 September 1999. HOWEVER! The reset list needs 2 added while the main list needs 2 removed, so finding the differences on the reset list may not help the main list, it might make it 4 out. Keep going anyway, you're doing great :-) anemoneprojectors 21:48, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi it looks like those ref numbers can be trusted it goes from LDSF273A then jumps LDSF277B. Which is weird I have revert Reset 1 back to when it matched up but Getty does say that 24+26 December 1996 is 430/430A which would completely mess it up.

What is even more strange is that in Getty I was checking to confirm last episode numbers in the resets for the very last reset all I can find is up to 7 April 2009 episode number 1619 and 9+10 April 2009 don't seem to be in the database but after that it starts on 13 April 2009 episode 3770. I am now wondering if when they calculated in number if they accidently missed those two off. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 14:17, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Sorry, I'm really confused. I can see you've put 25 December 1996 and 31 March 1997 Part 2 back and taken out 5 September 1999. Are you saying the numbers from Getty were wrong, or that something else was wrong? And you think that 9 and 10 April 2009 might have been missed off from the final reset? anemoneprojectors 14:49, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Oh don't worry, I can see what you've done. All your reset numbers match up. Maybe we still need to find some hour-long episodes with a single number. anemoneprojectors 14:55, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

No, there can't be any more, because I think you've taken it all into account. Perhaps 31 May 1999 could be worth asking about, and how about 5 September 1999? They could possibly have something to do with it. Or you could be right about 9 April 2009 and 10 April 2009. anemoneprojectors 15:07, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

BBC Sale website

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi just came across this BBC Sale website it says the the World Cup episodes are supplemental episodes see link below. I am not 100% sure but it looks like they list the original numbers and reset numbers.

• http://web.archive.org/web/20081231180001/http://www.bbcprograms.com/pbs/catalog/eastenders/eastde14.htm

• Main page also here

http://web.archive.org/web/20081228210140/http://www.bbcprograms.com/pbs/catalog/eastenders/eastmain.htm

Do you think it's still worth confirming? Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:06, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: No. That seems to confirm the episode numebrs, as it says the Paris Specials fall between 1631 and 1632, which is roughly where they are on our list currently (are we 1 out?). Very well found!!! anemoneprojectors 21:50, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

So I've used that to create a reference point for number 1632, meaning there is 1 out by that point. I wonder how we verify the dates of rest of the episodes on that page. anemoneprojectors 22:03, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

YES!!! 1679 is 26 October 1998 because of the comparison between the link you gave "Roy gets drunk and drives toward Pat" and the Angelfire site we found before [6] "Roy's car comes screeching round the corner towards Pat". anemoneprojectors 22:06, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

I've confirmed the episode date for number 1711 [7] being when Tiffany Mitchell died, and 1882 [8] being Ian and Mel's wedding. But it's made things even more confusing we're over and under in different places now. I'm adding reference points throughout. anemoneprojectors 22:26, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: There is more Seasons on this page 14-23, I think as far as it goes from 1998 to 20 November 2003. http://web.archive.org/web/20100411021506/http://www.bbcprograms.com/pbs/catalog/eastenders/eastmain.htm I had forgot about angelfire good call as Genome only gives very a limited synopsis. You were right about the A/B numbers there being more one example I found 10 April 1998 being 639/A then being re-numbered 1591/92 but then I wonder about the 7 A/B's if they were re-numbered. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 22:34, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

I know, I got the wedding from one of them. Deaths are easy to reference, 17 March 2003 was Roy's which they have as number 2476. I'm confused about 10 April 1998. Are 639 (1591) and 639a (1592) on that page from the same episode? It looks like 639a is the hour-long episode and 639 is the one before it. anemoneprojectors 22:42, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Anyway, it's now very confusing, because we need to remove one between 7 April 1994 and 13 July 1998, then add one between 26 October 1998 and 31 December 1998, then remove two between 31 December 1999 and 17 March 2003, then add FIVE between 17 March 2003 and 13 April 2009, based on the numbers we've just taken from those pages. anemoneprojectors 22:46, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

I will take a look, I found that the second airdate in 1988 list is 9 March 1998 Original number 625, Third reset number 1577 luckily it mentioned Mary's birthday and so does Genome. http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/c2543a6b91c14137ae5cfb037b70863a so therefore the first one on the list must be 5 March 1998 Original number 624, Third reset number 1576. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 22:49, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Well, if 9 March 1998 is 1577 and 10 April 1998 is 1591 there is an error somewhere in those 14 episodes between them because it's exact at 1577 and one out at 1591, one date would need to be removed. anemoneprojectors 22:58, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

No look at this -

"#639 - The judge will decide who will have custody of Cindy and Ian's children. ... (1591)"

And Genome "Thejudge decides who will have custody of Cindy and lan's children" http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/0d5155ecfaeb41599fba6babe0b44ac8, 1591 is 9 April 1998. anemoneprojectors 23:03, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Therefore I think 10 April 1998 is a single episode number. Sorry for all these messages, probably giving you nightmare edit conflicts! I really should go to bed!!! anemoneprojectors 23:05, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

It's alright I will properly call it a night too, yeah you are right. Will continue tomorrow. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

Last one of the night the last episode number from the BBC Sales 20 November 2003 Original number 1648, third reset number 2616. Luckily the synopsis matched. 3 to remove.

http://web.archive.org/web/20100310071412/http://www.bbcprograms.com/pbs/catalog/eastenders/eastde23.htm

http://web.archive.org/web/20090720004724/http://www.bbc.co.uk/eastenders/episodes/past/episode20031120.shtml

Will try and match the reset list as well

User:Kelvin_101/EastEnders_Episodes_Reset#Reset_1_.281994-2001.29

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 23:25, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

I'm going to compare all the episodes on the BBC sale site with synopses on Genome to see how many can be matched up. I don't care how long it takes :-) anemoneprojectors 09:23, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

I found another hour long episode! http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/1998-12-21#at-20.00 We desperately needed it! anemoneprojectors 10:29, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Well done in finding the hour-episode. They seem to use the same synopsis on the BBC Sale site as they do only the old EastEnders episode guides. http://www.bbc.co.uk/eastenders/episodes/finder/list_episode_200305.shtml Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

@Kelvin 101: Thanks for that. I've found a massive anomoly. BBC Sale has 2408 as "Laura and Mo plan a trap for Janine" which matches 19/11/02 "Laura and Mo set a trap for Janine". Then they next have 2409, which is "Steven finds out Ian's not his dad" which matches 22/11/02 "Steven finds out Ian's not his dad". But in between them are two episodes - 20/11/02 and 21/11/02, the latter being Alfie's arrival. These episodes appear to be unnumbered! anemoneprojectors 11:50, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

We are now all correct up to 23 November 2003 and there is nothing more we can do with BBC Sales. anemoneprojectors 12:10, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

But notice that we are now 7 out! The 7 original As and Bs??? anemoneprojectors 12:12, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

I think it's right. Look at User:AnemoneProjectors/sandbox5. They match up to the current date. It looks like they were the original tape numbers but NOT the numbers of the third reset - it just helped us to discover how they worked out the third reset numbers. What do you think? Are we done for good?? anemoneprojectors 12:15, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Wow well done I think you have cracked it, we know that they renumbered 10 April 1998 which was 639a so yeah It make sense they would have also renumbered the A/B's. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

Although it does look confusing look that all the number we collected from BBC Sales don't seem to match anymore on sandbox 5 Kelvin 101 (talk)

@Kelvin 101: No they don't match - but they would no longer be reference point. They are the tape numbers that helped us work out how we got to now, but were not episode numbers and are nothing to do with the 3rd reset. If those tape numbers go all the way back to 1, I suspect the As and Bs are single tape numbers, meaning those tape numbers go with how we had it but the current numbers go with sandbox5. So are we going with this as the definitive list of numbers? Two of them are then sadly unnumbered, one being Alfie's arrival. How can we deal with those? Apparently they were missed when they did the third reset. anemoneprojectors 12:41, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Just found a different archive version that has Alfie Moon arrives. http://web.archive.org/web/20081231180052/http://www.bbcprograms.com/pbs/catalog/eastenders/eastde22.htm I can only guess they must have messed the page up somehow. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

If Alfie's arrival is tape number 2412, we have the next episode as 2409 from a different archive but then becomes 2413. How does that work? It would change everything and we'd have to do the same excercise again. anemoneprojectors 12:51, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

But all versions match by the time Dennis cancels his date. anemoneprojectors 13:00, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

I think this archive is more accurate, giving Alfie's arrival a number of 2410. Can we use that to build on what we've done? I have to go for lunch now. anemoneprojectors 13:03, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

At some point in their system there must have been a glitch that removed the two episode then the system renumbered the remaining episodes. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 13:06, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

Actually the archive I just gave is missing 16 and 17 December 2002 instead! Pauline returns from America and Peggy is mugged. anemoneprojectors 13:10, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

Was Phil arrest for Lisa's Murder on the 29 November 2002 because it on this list it seems to be 2 December 2002. Which maybe wrong. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 13:49, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

Here it's listed as 2 December but I was going to ask you what you thought about that episode being on Genome but otherwise missing. Genome's write up implies he was arrested that episode. Then again, their 2 December says the police close in on Phil, meaning that would be his arrest. anemoneprojectors 14:08, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

I am not sure maybe we should ask for assistance from the written archives for that date. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 14:20, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

That's a good idea. anemoneprojectors 14:28, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

Is it just that date we need known about or is there anything else we need to know to saving asking multiple times? thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 14:38, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

Just to be sure, you could ask about 20 November 2002, 21 November 2002, 29 November 2002, 16 December 2002 and 17 December 2002. anemoneprojectors 14:49, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

I've just noticed that the archives for "series 22" have the episodes in different orders, one of them has 16 and 17 December after 27 December. I think we do need to include them all, and need to find out if there was a 29 November 2002 episode. At the moment we're now 2 out (2 to remove). anemoneprojectors 15:07, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

I do believe we are correct as of 18 November 2002 but my gut tells me that the 5 episode dates mentioned above should all be included. That means as of the 3rd reset (sandbox5 list) we are 3 out as of 13 April 2009. It's a shame that list doesn't continue. We probably have some hour-long episodes that are counted as a single episode. It'll probably be another request to the Archives though there's a lot of them. @Kelvin 101: you could also ask about the two episodes on 25 December 2002. anemoneprojectors 16:26, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi unfortunately I have already sent the email asking for 20 November 2002, 21 November 2002, 29 November 2002, 16 December 2002 and 17 December 2002. But I am sure they won't mind in the next email. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 18:29, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Thanks, I know you'll keep me posted :-) anemoneprojectors 18:35, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Apparently 29 November 2002 was Spencer Moon's first appearance. Thannks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:22, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

Oh yeah! Must have been an episode then. anemoneprojectors 21:14, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: While we are waiting for the Written Archive to get back to us as they are really busy. What do you think of creating something like this User:Kelvin 101/BBC_Sales_Records checking all the episodes are there by adding the date and checking against synopsis. Then if we come across one such as the 29 November 2002 we can actual renumbered it as it's just adding one more number. At the minute though the Internet Archive is down. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:00, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I already checked them and only found those five dates to be different, but you're welcome to repeat it. I want to concentrate on some other articles :-) anemoneprojectors 20:38, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: So I have another theory, and that is that 5 September 1999 isn't counted, since according to BBC Sales, it didn't have an original episode number. This could be another one to ask about on email. anemoneprojectors 13:13, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Also, 22 March 2007 is standing out to me - as Genome has it as a 30 minute episode. If 22 March 2007 is 30 mins (or 60 mins but counted as one number) and 5 September 1999 isn't counted, then we may have cracked it (until we haven't!) anemoneprojectors 13:16, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Though I just cross-checked with Waterloo Road (series 2) which Genome has on after it - episode 8 - Wikipedia says it was on the following week, and Genome indeed shows the same episode 8 on the following week. But it's worth asking anyway. anemoneprojectors 13:26, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

And according to BARB, DIY SOS was on at 20:30 that day (I have informed Genome!). I also noticed Wikia has that day's EastEnders episode numbered with two numbers (though definitely wrong numbers, I saw it on their list of Shirley's episodes). anemoneprojectors 13:28, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Hi yeah the BBC Genome did confirm before that the 22 March 2007 was a 60 minutes episode because of Match of the Day taking priority on 19 March 2007. But you're right it could count as either one or two. I would love to know what the criteria is for just giving them one number if they are an hour-long. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 18:12, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Oh Genome confirmed it? That's ok then. I think as we said, if it's two episodes pushed together for scheduling reason, 2 numbers. If it's deliberately written as a longer episode, then 1 number. But I suspect that now, even deliberate longer episodes have two numbers. anemoneprojectors 18:43, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: looking through the Series 16 list I Don't know if you came across this "908 ­ UK SKIPPED THIS EPISODE #­ IT DOES NOT EXIST". Not sure what to make of that. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

@Kelvin 101: Yeah I did see that, I assumed it meant they missed that one by accident but the tape numbers continued, and probably didn't affect the third reset. Asking for episode numbers in that case probably won't help. anemoneprojectors 21:03, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Found this http://www.kqed.org/tv/programs/archive/index.jsp?pgmid=9408&date=20070401 the dates are no UK airdates but might be able to match up some episodes from Synpois for example the below episode number matches in both the BBC Sale site and KQED Inc.

Having discovered that Trevor deleted Zoe's message, she stands up to him and leaves. Zoe contracts pnuemonia. Barry discovers Roy with Jane and is sworn to secrecy. (2223)

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 23:06, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Give it a go, though we don't know if these are numbers the station has given the episodes themselves (could be the tape numbers if we're lucky), so we don't know how they'll have treated hour-long episodes. If those two match, it's a good sign. anemoneprojectors 07:07, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I thought I'd have another look at my BBC Sales list with numbers (User:AnemoneProjectors/sandbox) and noticed it goes one out as at number 1882 but is fine as at 1755. Can we add more reference points to this part of the list to try to find where the difference is? Or have we already established it? anemoneprojectors 17:05, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

I will take a look and come back to you asap. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 22:51, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. Take your time. I'm not sure this will resolve anything, actually. Is it worth a try anyway? I know we looked into it before but to add the numbers is surely going to be helpful? anemoneprojectors 16:19, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

I have taken another look at User:Kelvin 101/BBC Sales Records and it looks like the final number up to 20 November 2003 is 2627 if we include the four episode it does not mention 29 November 2002, 25 December 2002 Part 2, 20 May 2003 and 22 May 2003.You would need to add seven because the original 7 A+B were not part of the overall numbering at that time.

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:26, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Right but I have 20 November 2003 as 2616. Forget adding 7 for As and Bs, look at User:AnemoneProjectors/sandbox. I just wanted to add more BBC Sales reference points to that list, and see how we can get that list to match up to the BBC Sales numbers. The rest of the stuff you mention is all good but it would be better if you discussed each of them in the relevant sections, otherwise the discussions will get too confused. anemoneprojectors 11:28, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi I have moved my messages not related to BBC Sales to the relevant sections. I have added reference point up to 28 November 2002 (2414) but after that it starts to go funny with 29 November 2002 not being listed on BBC Sale records or on the old EastEnders episode list. I remember we did confirm this episode with the Written archives but I am unsure if give 29 November 2002 the number 2415 as its not on the list. Although its odd that both BBC Sales Records and the old episode list would both miss them off unless one got its information from another. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 14:30, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Although I had to added 5 September 1999 hour-long episode as counting as two episode according to BBC Sales, even though Getty said it was only one. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

Thanks for doing that, it should make things a bit easier to follow, hopefully. Thing is I can't remember what we've said before about what numbers and this talk page is very long as it is :) Maybe we just need to start a new section clearly setting out all the anomolies, like 5 September 1999. anemoneprojectors 17:09, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Do you think the whole page should be archived? Then like you say we could have a new section on a fresh page. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 17:54, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Just a new section for now would be fine. anemoneprojectors 08:50, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Scripts number 4658

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi I just came across something strange I found the picture of a script that was given away as part of a competition in Canada http://www.visiontv.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/EESwagSweepstakes_SignedScript.jpg the scripts is 4658 but on the bottom it says issued 20 August 2014. But we know that episode as 17 June 2013. Do you think the reason for that date was because it was for the competition. I also saw this picture and of Episode 3+4 and it I cross check the director's name which was wrong on the 1985 Article List. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

@Kelvin 101: Perhaps the issue date at the bottom relates to the date it was printed, rather than the episode date. 20 August 2014 was a Sunday but it might say 29 August. But it's not relevant anyway. anemoneprojectors 18:38, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Numbers from Getty Images

@Kelvin 101: I looked the numbers you found from Getty Images, and saw that numbers in reset 2 didn't match up to what we had. I recreated User:AnemoneProjectors/sandbox to see how I could make them match - the changes I made are marked ***. For most of them I could find 2-parters or longer episodes, but one of them I didn't, so I just changed 6 May 2003. However, if we were to then implant these changes into the main list, as of 2009 it is 10 out, meaning 10 need to be added! 7 of them are probably original As and Bs (I am pretty sure they need to be counted as of the 3rd reset), but that still leaves a difference of 3. Therefore this still hasn't helped. Therefore I don't think finding more original numbers from reset 2 is going to make much difference, though I do wonder if it does give us a clue as to some of the hour-long episodes that have now been counted as a single number - I think good candidates are 25 December 2004, 18 February 2005, and 25 December 2005. These are more likely to have been deliberately written as hour-long episodes as two of them are Christmas episodes and the other is the 20th anniversary. If I am correct, then as of 13 April 2009, we are just 1 out. See User:AnemoneProjectors/sandbox6. anemoneprojectors 15:45, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

The other one could be the 15th anniversary on 20 February 2000. That would make the numbers correct. anemoneprojectors 15:48, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Its strange only some episodes are listed on getty although I suspect they all might be there, it just what has been index in google as I can't find them on the Getty site. This is the link I have been using below.

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=Transmission+date:+2006+eastenders+site:gettyimages.co.uk&safe=off&filter=0

I do agree with your points as soon as the written archives gets back in touch we can get those dates checked. On the reset list I hadn't counted the 2 parters as 1 as I was just collate the numbers. All 2 parters count as 1 second reset. It's a shame Getty doesn't list the reset numbers with the retroactive numbers.

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 16:08, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Hi I found the reset number for the ones you mentioned it looks like 18 February 2005 only counts as one.

• 25 December 2004 (Labeled as 711/711A) (Will most likley count as 2)

http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/soap-opera-the-watts-family-gather-for-christmas-but-news-footage/BBC_LDXH696R

• 18 February 2005 (Labeled as 744) Will most likley count as 1)

http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/soap-opera-extended-episode-to-mark-the-shows-20th-news-footage/BBC_LDXH694D

• 25 December 2005 (Labeled 921/921a) Will most likley count as 2)

http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/soap-opera-alfie-prepares-to-leave-the-square-but-will-news-footage/BBC_LDXH698E

I have no idea how I managed to find this link but can find the majority of episodes using the date filter on the side. http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/search/more-like-this/BBC_DRAA402K

The reset list is nearly done there is just a bit of tweaking with checking Getty whether hour-long episodes and 2 Parters count as 1 or 2. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:59, 8 May 2016 (UTC) Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:59, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

The reset list is complete as far as I can see. The tricky part was 24 December 2002 and 25 December 2002 Part 1 + 2 being one number 290, 2090A and 290B. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

Oh well done! Yes I agree, it looks to be complete. Christmas 1999 looks a bit messy, but just some mislabelling I think, and everything after that is fine. But the retroactive numbering is still 3 over as of 13 April 2009. So we seem to be completely stuck. Perhaps the retroactive numbering did reduce some A/B episodes to one number, but if that's the case, surely we won't know which? anemoneprojectors 08:11, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Hi I think I found one of the hour-long episodes that counts as 1

• 5 September 1999 (Labeled 865)

I have made a table with all the hour long episodes and their numbers. User:Kelvin_101/EastEnders_Hour_Long_Episodes two more episodes to find. Maybe to narrow it down. We should look to see if the hour-long episodes has two writer or just one. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:41, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Excellent stuff - just 2 more to find! anemoneprojectors 06:10, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

eBay Scripts

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi I found a lot of scripts numbers on this site http://www.worthpoint.com/inventory/search?currencyCode=GBP&query=EASTENDERS+SCRIPT&categories=%7B%7D&channels=%7B%7D&max=100&rMin=&rMax=&sort=BestMatch&absoluteMax=632&layout=grid&saleLocation=UK&datasource=&datasourceName=&sourceUrl=&searchForm=search&restrictTo=worldwide&_img=&img=on its basicaly an archive of what is sold on ebay all the numbers seem to match up a part from 24 November 1998. It says its 738 but the reset list says it's 737. But might be a mistake as I cannot see the picture of script clearly and BBC sales notes it as 737 and synopsis matched date in Genome.

Although the numbers match up I am still curious about 5 December 1995 Part 1 + Part 2, According to Getty they are 268A/268B, 24+25 December 1996 could possibly 430/430A and 31 March 1997 Part 1 & Part 2 could possibly 471A/471B. Although then deducting 3 would me you would need to find three. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 22:28, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Surely if those episodes have As and Bs on the original numbers, they would still be counted as individual episodes, which they were, and there would be no changes to make on the list? So we're still 2 over. I'm confused. anemoneprojectors 22:36, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi sorry I was talking about the reset list which I was hoping that would help us solve the main list. It a shame we can't get access to bbcworldwidesales.com as they would likley have a full list but its only for businessss. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 23:27, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I still can't see that it would make any difference - I looked at both reset and main lists. Well I'm sure you know what you're doing even if I don't ;-) anemoneprojectors 06:45, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

EastEnders YouTube Episode Numbers

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi I came across these retroactive episode numbers on the official EastEnders Youtube channel. I am surprised I never noticed it before. I don't know if it will help us but thought I would mention it just in case. https://www.youtube.com/show/eastenders/playlists

on a clip if you click "show more" it shows you information like

• Programme EastEnders
• Season 1985
• Episode 66
• Release date 03/10/1985
• Running time 3:06
• Category Soaps Classic TV Drama
• Licence Standard YouTube Licence

I have tried to put them onto this list and match them up User:Kelvin_101/Test#List_of_EastEnders_episodes. It gets a bit tricky after 2 March 1995.

A selection of the air date and episode numbers are below.

• 25 October 1994 (1037) Matches But only with A/B counting as 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwBxjMxohiM
• 2 March 1995 (1092) 1 needs removed shows as 1093 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRjYqd1kzvI
• 20 May 1996 (1283) 1 needs removed shows as 1094 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgSMgc74rEM
• 17 April 1997 (1428) 3 needs removed shows as 1031 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iv_xhGVtq0
• 13 September 1998 (1658) 1 needs removed shows as 1659 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m55p2Ak4_4&index=1
• 12 October 1999 (1837) 4 needs removed as 1841 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYLAbBhvIrE
• 3 February 2000 (1890) 6 needs removed as 1896
• 26 October 2000 (2005) 8 needs removed as 2013 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8iXHZYKpW4
• 1 October 2001 (2159) 11 needs removed 1270 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgUf9hlTnnU
• 29 November 2002 (2403) 11 needs removed 2414 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4XObqq6g6Q
• 14 April 2003 (2481) 12 needs removed 2493 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs7NK4buOuY
• 19 February 2004 (2660) 14 needs removed 2674 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94L_4RWTXes
• 16 December 2005 (3041) 17 needs removed 3058 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpkYVb3gOjY
• 5 September 2006 (3190) 21 needs removed 3211 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoe3KSPjJME
• 4 December 2007 (3450) 25 needs removed 3475 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdqsAeu4LP0
• 1 February 2008 (3487) 26 needs removed 3513 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utzrN3KOiNA

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 14:12, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Hope you don't mind my tidying up your comment to make it a bit easier to follow. Seems like a good find, I didn't know they'd have episode numbers on YouTube. But if it's 26 out by 2008, can it really be trusted? anemoneprojectors 15:33, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

British Soap Awards 2016 Ref to Episode 527

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi not sure if you have seen the British Soap Awards 2016, but Adam Woodyatt made a reference to Episode 527 when he was talking about Steve McFadden first appearance which was 20 February 1990. Trouble is we are one out on the main list. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 23:14, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

Civvy Street? anemoneprojectors 08:18, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:It would appear that maybe Civvy Street does count, unless Adam Woodyatt simply went onto the Wikiapedia page for Phil Mitchell and got the information that his first appearance was episode 527 rather than obtaining it from EastEnders production team or as EastEnders only aired Tuesday and Thursday there maybe one episode that was missed of possibly on a Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday or a Sunday. I will double check. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 14:10, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Not that Civvy Street does count but that it did at the time. Or yeah, the Wiki page. The numbers were put in the character pages when we thought Civvy Street counted, but now we know it doesn't. anemoneprojectors 14:38, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Theoretically it could count now if they wanted to keep 12 July 1994 as the 1000th episode. It would certainly explain why Adam Woodyatt would give that number 527 as 20 February 1990. Just a thought.

British Soap Awards 2016 Clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTmIb0sLvzQ

If there was only there was a way to contact him and ask him, where he got that number.

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 13:40, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I only watched the awards the other day and saw this. There is a way to contact him. Adam Woodyatt, c/o EastEnders, BBC Elstree Centre, Carendon Road, Borehamwood, WD6 1JF. Also he's on Twitter. Doubt he'd answer that specific question, but the answer will probably be "from the BBC" or "from Wikipedia", so I don't see much point asking. I'm actually already halfway through writing a letter to him to get his cast card because he wasn't at the meet and greet (also doing the same for the rest who weren't there). anemoneprojectors 13:47, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

But you're right, theoretically it could have been included in the final reset. I don't think we can ever know though. When they did the final reset, I doubt they made a list of each episode, they just went "there have been this many episodes numbers". We think Civvy Street was originally unnumbered, meaning it would still be so. anemoneprojectors 13:50, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:I really wish I could have been at the meet and greet but I live too far away. Although I have seen some pictures. I actual recently bought an old script and printed of the Pretty Baby Script and asked the writer to sign it. Which they very kindly did. I only have a few cast cards though would like more. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 13:56, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

I know we've gone off topic now but I got 35 cast cards on the day. You may have seen my photos, in fact check out Commons:Category:EastEnders Meet and Greet :) anemoneprojectors 14:11, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Freedom of Information Request

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi I came across this Freedom of Information Request made to the BBC in 2011

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/81240/response/202873/attach/html/3/RFI20110897%20final%20response.pdf.html

The person making the request wanted to know the episode and airdate of a specific episode. They provided the BBC with a synopsis. The BBC replied "Ep c963 (tx: 06.03.2006)"

It seems to match up with Genome and the reset list.

Strangely as it was 2011, I would have thought they would have given him a retroactive number instead.

I previously made a request for an episode list but it was turned down due to "Please note that the information you have requested is excluded from the Act because it is held for the purposes of ‘journalism, art or literature"

We know that the third reset starts 13 April 2009 on episode 3770. I am now wondering if I make a request for the air dates for the episode 1000, 2000, 3000 or possible 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500, 3000. Then because it not to much information for them to find out they might grant the request.

In other news I was speaking to someone on the Walford Gazette website and they said they would like to write a story about the project we are trying to do possibly to be published in late June. I did tell him I would have to ask your permission. Does this seem like a good idea? Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 14:24, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Well I'm glad you're still looking into this. I think I'm not that surprised they gave a non-retroactive number, as it's possible they had looked up a script or some other system that holds the original numbers. Had it been a retroactive number, it would have been an excellent find for us - but I have a feeling they don't actually hold a database and they probably went "right, there have been 3769 episodes so far so we'll make the next one 3770". Anything is worth a try, and as they never made an episode that was given the number 2000 or 3000, it would be quite interesting to see their answer. 3500 as well.

As for the Gazette, yeah no problem at all! anemoneprojectors 15:52, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Also have received an email back from the BBC in reply to the Freedom of Information request for the air date of episode 1000,1500,2000,2500,3000,3500 unfortunately they have refused it saying that it's only held for journalism but I have requested it be reviewed as it mentions on the information commissioner site.

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:26, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

That's a shame, but not a surprise. anemoneprojectors 17:09, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Still 2 out

@Kelvin 101: Recently, I've observed episode numbers being added to some articles for characters arriving or leaving in around 2008 (not sure if I saw it for one in 2006) which are consistently 2 out with our list, which we know is 2 out. When I wrote the Pretty Baby article, I gave it the number 3517, though not sure where I got it from now, which is also 2 out. So thinking our error is somewhere before 2008, rather than at the very end of the reset. Just a thought. anemoneprojectors 09:07, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi I certainly agree with you that the error is before 2008, going on the reset list I would say between 11 April 1994 and 2008. Reason I mention 11 April 1994 the start of the first reset is because I noticed after a search on the National Archives site that in the Special Collections Department Library at the University of Glasgow, they had a 68 scripts of the writer Susan Boyd and sent me a list of all the Episode numbers and Transmission dates data here User:Kelvin 101/Susan Boyd Scripts but at certain points they are either 1 out or 2 out in 1994/1996 and 1997. I am trying to find out the reason for this.

I have still not heard back from the BBC Freedom of Information Request but I think thats good as it should mean they are looking into the request. With regard to Pretty Baby.... episode 3517 is it possible you counted back from the Radio Times numbering? Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 12:57, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Oh well done. You're doing it all on the quiet a bit but I like that. You've found so many different and unexpected sources. I agree it'll be between 1994 and 2008. You could be right that I counted backwards. I wonder where those adding episode numbers are getting them from - maybe they're also counting backwards, who knows? anemoneprojectors 13:10, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Also I was thinking there are 9 hour-long episode 15 June 2006 - 2 April 2009 on the EE site that still say 30 minutes, I have mentioned it to them. Hopefully if they change them we may find some hour-long episode according to Genome might not be hour-long episode but 30 minutes episodes. I know it's a longshot but worth a try. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 13:29, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Anomalies

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: I have made a list of all the anomalies I could find on the User:Kelvin 101/BBC Sales Records, if you come across any others please let me know.

• 29 November 2002 (Missing from list) (Most likely to be 2415)
  • Confirmed on Genome Genome
  • Getty Synopsis: "Marsden has her sights set on Phil, will she get her man? Bad day for the BEALES; worse to come for Ian. sps vt EP 276"
  • but not on BBC Episode List
• 25 December 2002 (Part 2) (Missing from list) (Most likely to be 2432 with previous parting being 2431)
  • Getty Synopsis: Billy's nerves almost get the better of him & Jamie & Sonia make a vow. vt EP 290B
• 20 May 2003 (Missing from list) (Most likely to be 2515)
  • Getty Synopsis: Gus attempts to do the right thing. Sp s vt EP 374
• 22 May 2003 (Missing from list) (Most likely to be 2516)
  • Getty Synopsis: Phil learns from Dalton some terrifying truths about the past. vt Episode 375

The last episode 20 November 2003 on BBC Sale ends 2616 It is likely if these four episodes are include it would now end 2620 .

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:58, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Thanks, I was looking for any other anomalies and things we need to find out, not just things from BBC Sales. But this is helpful. I've tidied it up so it's easier to read as well. I'll update my BBC Sales list User:AnemoneProjectors/sandbox with these, if they aren't already. anemoneprojectors 10:14, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

I have a note that 29 November 2002 is on BBC Sales but in the version archived on 18 April 2009. anemoneprojectors 10:17, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Right, I've indented the three numbers missing from BBC Sales and interestingly, that's made my list 7 out (i.e. correct when taking original As and Bs into account) as of 13 April 2009, the first number of the final reset. That's very interesting. anemoneprojectors 10:24, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

What I'm confused about is that if I remove those three from the BBC Sales list, it works out, but if I remove them from the main list, it's one out, because it's currently two out and it sends it the other way. However, I can't see any other differences between my two lists (i.e. User:AnemoneProjectors/sandbox and User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes. anemoneprojectors 11:09, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: The difference I have is 5 September 1999, an hour long episode. I have it down as not having a double number in the main list, but BBC Sales gives it two numbers. Can we check this one out again to be sure? anemoneprojectors 11:15, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

I remember this one 5 September 1999 showed as two numbers on this BBC Sales list but only as one on Getty. Might be one for the written archives to answer. I will start adding all the dates to User:Kelvin 101/BBC Sales Records to see if it turns up anything. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 14:16, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. Are we still waiting for some information from the archives? I know they gave us some episode numbers already. anemoneprojectors 15:46, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

I don't think we are waiting on anything as far as I know, was there specifics information we needed? It's a shame they only have the original script numbers and not the overall episode numbers. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 23:41, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

I had a feeling we were waiting for something but I can't find anything... I might go through this page and look at the dates we've discussed and see if any are still outstanding. anemoneprojectors 08:44, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I'm now actually wondering if we should ask about 20 May 2003 and 22 May 2003, as to me they are standing out as good possibilities for episodes the BBC could have missed when they did their final reset. anemoneprojectors 08:57, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

That Could be true but I think as the Written archive could only confirm original episode numbers on scripts it wouldn't really help use with the overall episode numbers. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 23:19, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

I see your point, the numbers we're using from BBC Sales aren't the original script numbers. But still, there might be something funny about those two episodes as they have been flagged up for whatever reason. There has to be a reason why we are 2 out, it can't be for no reason, so it has to be findable. anemoneprojectors 17:52, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

I know you noted about 29 November 2002 (2415) being in BBC Sales on a different archive version 18 April 2009 but I cannot find the Synopsis in that list.

http://web.archive.org/web/20090418181739/http://www.bbcprograms.com/pbs/catalog/eastenders/eastde22.htm

• Synopsis - from Getty and BBC Genome: "Marsden has her sights set on Phil, will she get her man? Bad day for the BEALES; worse to come for Ian.

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

Is "Marsden has her sights set on Phil" not the same as "Phil is arrested for Lisa's murder"? I know a lot of the synopses on BBC Sales are different to the other sites. anemoneprojectors 15:26, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

• Thur 28 Nov 2002, Phil smashes Lisa's snow globe. http://web.archive.org/web/20090301115854/http://www.bbc.co.uk/eastenders/episodes/past/episode20021128.shtml
• Fri 29 Nov not listed but the Written archive did confirm its existence.
• Mon 2 Dec 2002 Phil is arrested for Lisa's murder http://web.archive.org/web/20090301131051/http://www.bbc.co.uk/eastenders/episodes/past/episode20021202.shtml

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:19, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Then no it's not the same. I don't know where I think I saw it in a different archive of BBC Sales. So it's missing from the BBC Sales pages yet the numbering there continues without a gap, and it's missing from the old EastEnders site, so perhaps this episode is one of our two episodes that needs to be removed from the list, and given a number of something like 2420A. However, there are three episodes missing from BBC Sales in total. 25 December 2002 (Part 2) is missing from the EastEnders site http://www.bbc.co.uk/eastenders/episodes/finder/list_episode_200212.shtml but 20 May 2003 and 22 May 2003 are not http://www.bbc.co.uk/eastenders/episodes/finder/list_episode_200305.shtml.

So 25 December 2002 part 2 could be the other one to remove. anemoneprojectors 12:38, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Its very interesting the way you managed to match the test list and BBC Sales list. When you include the 7A/B's by removing ## and leaving just one # they it shows one out. But then there is still the four missing episodes unaccounted for. Any ideas? We may have to make 5 September 1999 count as two on the main list which would push us back to three out. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 00:23, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: What test list do you mean? The BBC Sales list I've done at User:AnemoneProjectors/sandbox matches the BBC Sales list by the BBC, as I've taken out the four episodes they are missing. The four missing episodes are accounted for on my BBC Sales list. But 29 November 2002 and 25 December 2002 pt2 are both missing from BBC Sales AND BBC episode list, whereas 20 and 22 May 2003 are missing just BBC Sales but not the episode list, so I'm suggesting that 29 November 2002 and 25 December 2002 pt2 could be two episodes removed from our main list, which is currently just 2 out, and it would make it match - as those episodes are missing from both BBC's lists, I think they are good candidates for episodes they missed out when they did the final number reset. Does that make sense? Have a look at User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes TEST. anemoneprojectors 07:05, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: It does make sense but I just had a thought if the four episodes missing from BBC Sales

• 29 November 2002
• 25 December 2002 Part 2
• 20 May 2003
• 22 May 2003

Were missed of the final list and 5 September 1999 the hong long which counts as two according to BBC Sales (previous we thought it was one and still is on the main list). That leaves one out and thinking back the mention that Adam Woodyatt made during the British Soap Awards makes me think of Civvy Street being included to make 12 July 1994 the 1000th episode as its claimed on they TV advert for that episode. This would all fit User:Kelvin 101/List of EastEnders episodes TEST. Although the reset was not done till 2009 and the BBC Sales list were made few years before that. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 14:22, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

(lol don't know why I wrote TEST in allcaps!!) @Kelvin 101: So your suggestion is to miss off all four BBC Sales missing episodes, and include Civvy Street and give 5 September 1999 a double number? Whereas my suggestion is to only miss off the two episodes missing from the BBC episodes list (e.g. http://www.bbc.co.uk/eastenders/episodes/finder/list_episode_200212.shtml). I prefer my suggestion, only because I think it's more likely they would have used the same source as the episode list than the BBC Sales list. I think the 1000th episode counted Civvy Street but the retroactive numbering probably didn't. The episode list goes up to 2007 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/eastenders/episodes/finder/list_episode_200705.shtml) after which we have to use the internet archive. I think it's much more likely they used this list than the Sales one, and as it has 2 missing, that's the 2 we need. anemoneprojectors 17:12, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

All the archive links to the old episode list are here User:Kelvin 101/BBC EastEnders Episode Links. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 22:14, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: How would you suggest showing these episodes are not included in the overall numbering on the years articles. Would this be sufficient below?

#	No. in year	Original air date	Running time	Directed by	Written by	Viewers (millions)
—	191	29 November 2002 (2002-11-29)	30 minutes	Geoff Harris	Lynne Dallow	TBA
Note: This episode is not included in the overall numbering of the EastEnders episodes.

There is not many more year pages to do just 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006. But at the end we will need to try and fill in the blanks on certain directors/writers, if we can. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 10:37, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

I would suggest using the previous number and adding an A (thought I already mentioned this). Adding a note saying "This episode is not included in the overall numbering of the EastEnders episodes" may not be necessary, but I'll think about it. anemoneprojectors 08:48, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Oh and don't worry too much about missing directors and writers if you can't find them - if we finish off all the lists and still have some missing, we can still go live with just the available information. I wonder if some of the episodes might be uploaded to video sharing sites (maybe not youtube), so the credits could be checked that way.

So do you think you're in agreement with me about the two episodes? I can't think of any other option that could be right. This makes so much sense to me. If we eventually find out later that it's wrong, even if the articles are live, we can change it. anemoneprojectors 11:24, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

Oh yeah I forgot about adding the A for the overall numbering. I have also been checking video sharing sites to cross reference with Genome but they don't really have many old episodes for a specific year. I do agree with your list as it does make sense my only concern would be "5 September 1999".

BBC Sales has it counting as two 1822+1823 but originally I don't think it counted at all.

• Special Part 1 of 2 - Carol discovers the truth about Bianca & Dan. Dan ruins Phil & Lisa's evening & Barry proposes to Natalie. Ian believes Barry is trying to steal the limelight. (1822)
• Special Part 2 of 2 - Continuation of Part 1. (1823)

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 13:53, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: According to Genome [9] it was shown as a single hour-long episode and was only a "special" in that there were extra episodes that week, but it's otherwise a normal episode. Also it is on the BBC's episode list [10]. What makes you think it might not have been counted? I still think the two missing from their episode list are the better options. I think 5 September 1999 should have a single number, go with Getty on that one, I just checked our discussions on that one. Can you show me the Getty page of 5 September 1999? anemoneprojectors 13:03, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

It's ok, I found it on your User:Kelvin 101/EastEnders Hour Long Episodes. anemoneprojectors 13:13, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

I know you are most like right but now we are coming to the end keeping thinking of different combinations and I know I am overthinking it. Thanks 00:59, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

After all this time I don't blame you but I really want to put it to rest finally! I think it's our best option, and we should just push forward with it. We removed the three World Cup specials for the reason they aren't included on the BBC eps list, so applying the same to the other 2 episodes makes perfect sense to me. anemoneprojectors 16:31, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and finalised the list at User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes. anemoneprojectors 16:39, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

1999 article episode numbers

Hi there nothing urgent so I want ping you. I was just editing User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (1999) and noticed there are already some episode numbers there. For example 4 January 1999 its down as 1723 but BBC Sales Records says it's 1712. You don't happen to know the source of 1723? Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 18:09, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

I probably went by my really old User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (before you started helping), which currently says that episode is 1719. 1719 seems more likely, as we know the final reset is 7 different from BBC Sales (because of As and Bs). anemoneprojectors 15:26, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Other discussions

First/Last appearance of...

@Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234: I saw a few bits on User:RachelRice/List of EastEnders episodes (2015) where it says (eg) "Last appearance of Khali Best as Dexter Hartman and Anna Acton as DC Emma Summerhayes." and I thought this seemed a good idea, despite the fact I hadn't kept it up or done it anywhere myself... so I thought I'd add them in for 2016, but I'm confused as to what to do, so am wondering if we should actually bother at all.

Firstly, do we include returns or former regular characters in guest appearances (such as Glenda/Charlie/Jean/Ollie/Ryan)? If we do, it'll be very cluttered, especially if it's just for one or two episodes. And we don't really know what's going on with Mo anymore...

Secondly, currently I've added in the last appearances for Kat and Alfie, but if they do return after the spin-off, then it should probably be removed, and it seems likely that would be forgotten.

So actually I'm now wondering if it's not worth bothering at all - the cast list say how many episodes they were in, and the episode summary usually makes it clear that a character has arrived or left. So what are your thoughts on putting this information in? AnemoneProjectors 16:22, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: I agree it may look too cluttered, If you want to go ahead you could either list Ryan in the guest appearances or creating a new sub heading something along the lines of recurring characters. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 02:01, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

I think it's probably not worth mentioning as a last apperance isn't always a last appearance, and there are too many guest stints of formerly regular characters. AnemoneProjectors 07:49, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Kelvin 101: I would, if you were to include that, say: This episode saw the: first appearance of (a debuting actor); departure of (an exiting actor); return of (a returning actor that is here for longer than a guest stint); guest appearance of (an actor that is returning for a guest stint).

For example, 25 January 2016 would state: This episode featured the departure of Jessie Wallace as Kat Moon and Shane Richie as Alfie Moon. 21 January 2016 would state: This episode featured the guest appearance of Gillian Wright as Jean Slater, Tony O'Callaghan as Ollie Walters and Carli Norris as Belinda Peacock. However, based on what you decide, it could say: This episode featured the guest appearance of Gillian Wright as Jean Slater and Tony O'Callaghan as Ollie Walters and the departure of Carli Norris as Belinda Peacock.

I hope that made sense. Soaper1234 (talk) 10:52, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Soaper1234, that does make sense but seems too cluttered, I think we should leave them out - as I said, the plot section should make it clear, and the cast section will say who returned/left/joined/etc. AnemoneProjectors 17:44, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

Uncredited characters

In the cast lists, I list any cast member if the character is mentioned in the plots. In User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (2016), I have added Bert and Ernie Moon, because I mentioned them and their portrayers are known, but as they are uncredited, I've put "unknown episodes" and a note saying they are uncredited. Am I right to do this? It's similar to Tracey in 2015, where she is only credited a couple of times but is mentioned in plots. Could I attempt to count their appearances before all of January's episodes expire (possibly not worth is, or I'd have to count Tracey's too)? How about Pearl? I haven't mentioned her yet, but the same would apply. AnemoneProjectors 07:59, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

I liked the way you included the uncredited children, but I would leave it with "unknown episodes" as they were never credited. You have included a note as well, so it all makes sense. Soaper1234 (talk) 10:53, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, I'm not going to attempt to count, so I'll leave it as unknown. Like with Tracey, if they end up credited (unlikely!) then would change the note to similar to hers in 2015. AnemoneProjectors 17:45, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

@Soaper1234: Just to say that in the note I added about "infants", this is because children aged around 4 such as JJ and Lily (when she first arrived) have been credited, but children of this and similar ages weren't credited in the 80s and 90s, but they're not technically infants, so the notes should probably read "young children" rather than "infants". Maybe I should also change this for Bert and Ernie - and Pearl who is about to have her first birthday. AnemoneProjectors 09:56, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: I was having a good look through the site that Soaper sent me and discovered that they have noted alot of the uncredited children appearances http://walfordweb.com/topic/11366730/1/ Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 13:43, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Episode Names

@AnemoneProjectors and Kelvin 101: I was about to start on adding the cast and characters onto the early years using the appearance guide on IMDb when I noticed the first nineteen episodes (19 February until 23 April) were given names. A similar format was used in the two episodes which aired on 19 February 2015. I wasn't sure if you would like to include these names or not? Soaper1234 (talk) 14:56, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: I am glad you brought that up I had noticed that but forgot about it, as far as I know they have never been named certainly BBC Worldwide have put the first 68 episodes on YouTube here and there is no mention unless with the original scripts they named the first 19 and then before broadcast decided not to use episode titles. Can't find any reliable sources with those titles but I did find this page http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0276ht4 it leads towards saying "Poor old Reg" was written by Gerry Huxham. But I think the writer of that page had missinturbted the short snyopis on the BBC's database as the episode title. http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/95e92fac0ca74da591e0950048b8cb45 Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 16:00, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234:We use the episode title column for the date, so see User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (2010)#February, User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (2011)#March, and User:RachelRice/List of EastEnders episodes (2015)#February for two different ways it has been done so far. I don't think we should use small text, but if there are known titles, this is the way to do it. As far as I'm aware, only "Pretty Baby...." and "Look Back in Anger" are named episodes. I shall have a look at the IMDb list though. AnemoneProjectors 17:55, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234: Well this is interesting, I just found this, which is an interview with Rob Gittins and says the following:

Tony Holland, the original creator of EastEnders insisted that all the writers title their episode, despite that title never appearing on screen.

Rob wrote the hour-long 30th anniversary episode of EastEnders which aired last year. Although the title never appears on screen, he called that episode 'Look Back in Anger', after the Oasis song.

“I usually use song titles. The old Beatles one, ‘Don’t Let Me Down’, was the most recent episode that I did” he adds.

So it looks like in the early days, the episodes were titled, and at least Rob Gittins still titles his episodes. We currently only know a small handful of episode titles, basically "Poor Old Reg", "Pretty Baby...." (which was on the script) and "Look Back in Anger" (also on the script). I'm not sure I trust the titles that IMDb has but it would be so good if we could find more titles, but it's probably impossible. We don't even know if "Don’t Let Me Down" would be the one he had most recently written before that interview or that was most recently broadcast. But I'm guessing that any episode that is titled has the title on the script's front page (the other scripts from the Live Week have no titles). — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 12:41, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234:Good find, I could ask the BBC Archive to take a look but I don't know how willing they would be to look given that it could be at least the first 91 episodes. It would have been good had they put it in the first 10 years book. I'm still not sure about the first episode being called "poor old reg" because in the Early days what was put in the radio times was a short sentence teasers rather than a full synopsis. I will check The Times Newspapers Archive to see if its any different.

ThanksKelvin 101 (talk) 15:28, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

It might be a punt but the song "Don't Let Me Down" appears in one of his episodes

• https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07v8ccs

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:07, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Interesting find re "Don't Let Me Down" but that's by The Chainsmokers not The Beatles so it's hard to say if it's the right episode, though it's around the right time. I'm not sure the BBC Archive would do that for us as it's a lot of work. Did you get access to some scripts through some other site? I might be thinking of Getty but I can't remember what you can actually get on there. We have two sources other than Radio Times saying episode 1 was called "Poor Old Reg" as well and the short synopsis in RT could actually still be the episode title in that case. Plus BBC Store used "Poor Old Reg", as pointed out when we discussed it here: #"Poor Old Reg" and other named early episodes. By the way I tweeted Rob Gittins and am waiting for a reply. — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 08:34, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

I have put everything here User:Kelvin 101/EastEnders Episode Titles thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 22:00, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Cool, you could also add in "Don't Let Me Down" as a confirmed title with an unknown date. I'm assuming that while Holland was at EE, every episode was named, if he continued to insist on episode names, though we don't know if he continued to insist that. Gittins' first episode went out in 1986 so it was still happening then clearly, and now, Gittins is perhaps the only writer naming all of his episodes. — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 22:33, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

Cast count

@Soaper1234 and Kelvin 101: Where are we getting cast lists from, e.g. User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (1985)#Cast and characters? AnemoneProjectors 22:33, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

That was me, sorry if I made any mistakes. I used IMDb as it featured all the cast in the episode they are credited for and not credited for, but still included in. The cast and characters added to the list were based from who had sections on List of EastEnders characters (1985), then from there people could be added based on who featured in episode summaries. Soaper1234 (talk) 22:47, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

I just wanted to check. I'm not aware of any mistakes, however, I am aware that IMDb is generally not considered a reliable source, as it can be edited by anybody. I was actually thinking, as I was working on 2008 and the BBC site doesn't have all the cast, just those it mentions in its own short summaries, of having an alphabetical cast list without a cast count. If you think IMDb is accurate for these episodes then that's fine, though. AnemoneProjectors 07:14, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, I felt it was generally accurate and I would recommend using it for 2008. Soaper1234 (talk) 17:17, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

@Soaper1234: Do you have a quick way of counting? AnemoneProjectors 17:43, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

I gather all the episodes from that year and copy and paste into an Excel document. How ever many rows down it goes is the number of episodes. Soaper1234 (talk) 18:18, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

For each individual cast member? I can see, by going to, say, Letitia Dean's IMDb and putting all the 2015 eps into Excel, that she was in 123 episodes, though we have her listed as being in 124! Hmm. AnemoneProjectors 19:31, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

As I have moved onto the 1986 cast, I have run into some issues that do not look like they make sense. I think your idea of doing an alphabetical list without a cast count may be a good idea. However, I may currently have someone that can provide me with some reliable numbers. Soaper1234 (talk) 20:29, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101 and AnemoneProjectors: Yes I managed to find that source. You may remember the Walford Web site and the people who ran the site and kept character information have uploaded everything to the Walford Web forums in a thread here. See if you want to use it or not. Just let me know if we find this a reliable use of information. Soaper1234 (talk) 21:29, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234: Potentially useful but sadly, not a reliable source (one of the contributors used to be an editor here). I'd rather use reliable sources like the BBC, so if there are issues, it might be better to not include a count. By all means, do the count to what we think it is, but if there's no properly reliable source, it might be best not to include it. AnemoneProjectors 09:09, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101 and AnemoneProjectors: Right, I added the information last night before you decided against it, hence why it is there. I can always remove it and add an alphabetical list in its place. So would we only really use the BBC credits from 5 May 2008 and alphabetic credits for years between 1985 and 2008? Soaper1234 (talk) 18:22, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

@Soaper1234: Might as well keep it now you've done it... I suppose taking numbers from that forum is not much different to me counting the credits in 2016 - they're probably doing it the same way... and that forum has it all already counted, so it saves a lot of effort too! AnemoneProjectors 19:02, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Quite surprised actually. Cheers for that, it makes it easier for me as I go through each list adding the cast and characters. Also, I meant to say I am going to go through all the episode lists, adding the cast and episode count. I will then proceed to add the May, June and July episode summaries for 2013 and then that will be complete. From there, I imagine I will move onto 2014, but I'm not sure at this stage. Soaper1234 (talk) 19:13, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Cast list names

@Kelvin 101 and AnemoneProjectors: Hi, I noticed on User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (2016)#Cast and characters you had Shabnam written as "Shabnam Masood/Shabnam Kazemi". I wondered your reason behind this. I thought a better alternative may have been to write the name which she was most credited as throughout the year - so it would Shabnam Masood. Soaper1234 (talk) 11:12, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

@Soaper1234: Because I'm listing names as they were credited within the year, rather than using the Wikipedia article title (so Kathy Sullivan rather than Kathy Beale), I thought it would be better to list all names if a character is credited with more than one (otherwise I wouldn't be using the names they are credited with!). I also thought this was better for context. However, they did marry in November 2015 so Shabnam should have been credited as Kazemi in all her 2016 appearances. I'm just going by what the credits say. AnemoneProjectors 11:46, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Possibly a note may be better informing readers that they were also credited as Shabnam Kazemi, but to keep it neat on the front, you could write Shabnam Masood because she was credited as Masood for the majority of her appearances. I didn't mean it as what her Wikipedia page says, I meant more as what she was majority credited as. Soaper1234 (talk) 12:16, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

@Soaper1234: A note is a really good idea. I'll put it in for my next cast update. AnemoneProjectors 12:19, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Nick Cotton and Charlie Cotton

@Kelvin 101 and AnemoneProjectors: Doing the cast lists and I'm unsure of Nick Cotton's status within the show. Was he a regular throughout every appearance, would he be added as a "recurring and guest character". Of which years would he be a regular? Which years would he be a recurring/guest character? Soaper1234 (talk) 17:11, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

@Soaper1234 and AnemoneProjectors: Looking at his apperances on IMDB

http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0197393/filmoseries#tt0088512 I would say it looks like he was a regular in 1985, 1991, 2000, 2001, 2009, 2014 and 2015 and others were guest appearance but this is a matter of opionin I think. I would be interest to know what you and AnemoneProjectors thinks thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 18:20, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101 and AnemoneProjectors: Yeah, as I looked along, I noticed higher appearance counts in different years, hence why I really asked. I'll go from that Kelvin and we'll have to wait until tomorrow to see what AP says. Soaper1234 (talk) 19:06, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

No need to wait until tomorrow :-) I would say:

• 1985 regular
• 1986, 87, 88 and 89 guest
• 1990 possibly regular as it looks like he may have had a 3 month contract, and we would generally consider that to be a regular.
• 1991 regular
• 1993, 97, 98 guest
• 2000-01 regular
• 2003, 04 guest
• 2008-09 - the 2008 eps and early 09 are connected, but then he returns 3 months later for 3 months, so if the first stint here is connected to the 2nd, then 2008 is regular, if not 2008 is guest. 2009 is regular either way.
• 2014-15 regular

Hope that helps. AnemoneProjectors 20:52, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for that @AnemoneProjectors:! I'll sort that out now. Also, Charlie Cotton - his wiki page states he was a regular, but he is looking more at a yearly guest character? Soaper1234 (talk) 21:58, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

For Nick, I would go with guest for 2008. For Charlie... yes, 16 episodes is definitely recurring! I've changed his article. AnemoneProjectors 23:14, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Cheers for that AP, there was a couple of other characters that were down as regulars but had made about 15-25 appearances, so I changed them. If that was wrong, let me know. Soaper1234 (talk) 13:29, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

External Links Pre 2007

@AnemoneProjectors:Hi I was thinking about external links Pre 2007 do you think it's ok to use BBC Genome as the BBC don't have a programme guide on the EastEnders website as long as it list all the episodes.

• EastEnders episodes (1985) at BBC Genome

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 02:44, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Yes I would say that's a good idea. AnemoneProjectors 09:50, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Double episodes

When an episode is a double and has two numbers - e.g. 5510/5511 - should we list it in that year as, for example, episode 1 in the year, or episode 1/2? And in the number of episodes in that year, should we count it as two or one? AnemoneProjectors 16:32, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

I think that if an episode was to be a double in the general list, it should also be the same in a year list. I never understood why one was not and one was. Soaper1234 (talk) 22:11, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Well at first I thought that one broadcast should count as one episode regardless of episode numbers. But I'm starting to wonder. AnemoneProjectors 22:23, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

No, it has to be one episode per broadcast. We can't say a double episode is two episodes and then only list the cast of both parts as only appearing in one - and there's no way I'm checking all the double episodes to see which cast were in the first part, which were in the 2nd and which in both! If we change it in one place we have to change it in all places, including the appearance count. So we have to treat each broadcast as one. It's just the difference between episode number and number of episodes. AnemoneProjectors 22:33, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: Hi sorry I didn't see this new message section yesterday, I agree one episode per broadcast but when referring to overall episodes some are two depending on the running time. Although I did notice that on 2013 page it lists double episodes and counts them as two episodes. Does anyone know if other soaps such as Coronation Street, Emmerdale, Neighbours etc also have episodes that count as double episodes or is it just specific to EastEnders Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 14:55, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Sorry, I didn't ping anyone, but it doesn't matter - not urgent :) I think Soaper (or someone else?) did the numbering on the 2013 page, as that column didn't exist when I started. I don't know what other soaps do. Have you seen what I've done on User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (article)? Maybe a note in there to say doubles have two episode numbers being the reason the numbers won't seem to add up. AnemoneProjectors 15:48, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Hi I have just had a look, looks good. I knew there was a lot of doubles but didn't realise there was 38. If we put the air dates in separate column like List of The Bill episodes, it might not look as big. Let me know if you like that idea. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 17:04, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Kelvin 101: Hi all, yeah I did the edit on 2013 page but that was because I was it was correct at that point. Sure someone changed though, so that is fixed. I understand your point fully AP, too much work. Either way they seem fine to me. :) Soaper1234 (talk) 20:26, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234: Thanks you two. No worries about the edit on 2013, you did what you thought at the time. We have the numbers now so we can sort them all out. Thanks both of you for helping out on this project - I could never have completed it without any support, especially getting the episode list correct and the cast counts. So I really appreciate it. And also to User:RachelRice for her ideas when working on the 2015 page and therefore taking it beyond just a list of episodes. AnemoneProjectors 09:29, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: Your very welcome, I don't think any of us could have done it alone. So my many thanks go to you both AP and Soaper Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

Moving to mainspace

Continuing from my above comment (which I did write there but thought it was better as a new subject): I want these all to become mainspace articles when we have the full list, but then again I suppose we could move them into mainspace as and when each one is complete. What are your thoughts on when we should consider this ready to go into mainspace? AnemoneProjectors 09:29, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234:Hi I can see Pro and Cons. I would be tempted to moved them as it would encourage others to contribute if they saw them, although there is a possibility that new editors might create pages we haven't yet created and use unreliable source to get the air dates/runtime then we would possibly have to keep checking them all over. Also before I forget we would also need to update the EastEnders Nav box to include the episode articles https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:EastEnders&action=edit. I was thinking something like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kelvin_101/Template:EastEnders Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 13:21, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Or I suppose we could put 2010-2016 on and see how it goes. Then add 1985-1991 as they are done and they like you say add 1992-2009 after each one has been completed. But anyway is fine with me. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

@Kelvin 101:Yes good point about people trying to make poorly sourced pages to fill in the gaps... we should probably wait. As for the template, I made this ages ago User:AnemoneProjectors/Templates#EastEnders_with_episodes :-) AnemoneProjectors 14:26, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101 and AnemoneProjectors: Thanks for that AP, I really appreciate it and I'm thankful that you gave me a chance to shine and for a new opportunity. For mainspace articles, I feel it would be better if we were to complete all the articles then uploaded them to mainspace. I feel that if we can complete everything to a consistent excellent standard, like we are currently doing, we can upload it and feel confident that nothing will need editing. Soaper1234 (talk) 16:12, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Cast movement descriptions

As you may be aware, I have added cast descriptions to 1985. I was wondering if you thought this would be okay for use or was too long/should it be changed. For the pages 1986 onwards, which I am editing I was going to just follow the idea of departures, returns and exits across the year as well as recasts etc. Is that alright or should it be edited? Thanks, Soaper1234 (talk) 16:27, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

It doesn't seem too long though I haven't read it exactly. It makes sense for the 1985 one to be longer as it was the first year so more new cast! So I think it's fine. AnemoneProjectors 17:24, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Directors/Writers

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: Hi I know we sometimes have blank space for writers but mostly directors on the year pages. I noticed on the more recent entries on BBC Genome there are page such as

Tuesday 26 May 1999 that do not list a writer http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/1992-05-26#at-19.30

but then on the Thursday 28 May 1992 it says "This week's episodes written by Susan Boyd" http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/1992-05-28#at-19.30

is it ok to fill in these blanks even if it doesn't say it in the actual entry. Just want to make sure just incase I do it all wrong. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:12, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Hmm, is it normal for them to have one writer for a whole week in 1992? I know it's not now, and it's a director that does a whole block. Is there any other source that might help find the writers? AnemoneProjectors 16:59, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Kelvin 101: As you aware the cast lists are used from a count on Walford Web. Coincidentally, there is also a "Writer count" which states the many writers from 1985 to 2015. If this would be any use, you could use this. http://walfordweb.com/topic/10344813/2/ and http://walfordweb.com/topic/10344813/ Soaper1234 (talk) 18:39, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234:It certainly looks that way from what I can see on BBC Genome and the link that Soaper kindly provided. Although I have seen rare occasions where there are two writers for the same episode. I am not sure about the directors. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:49, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234: I don't think we need to list a "writer count" as we will have a full list of writers for each episode, but that's a good resource for getting the writers from. AnemoneProjectors 10:36, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: That was what I was intending it to be, a source rather than a writer count. Soaper1234 (talk) 19:51, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234: Just a quick reminder, if you're adding writers and directors, please check which have Wikipedia articles and add links appropriatey. I've done 1990 but not sure if I got them all - Leonard Lewis, Tony Jordan, Tony McHale, Rob Gittins, Mervyn Cumming and Tony Grounds all have articles, for example. AnemoneProjectors 14:42, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234:Thanks will do completely forgot about this. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 14:32, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Hi I have started doing the Air date, Writers and Directors. While I have been adding them I have checked them against The First 10 Years book and when you get to the 12 April 1994 the book tells me the Writer is Tony Jordan and Director is Leonard Lewis. Genome does not have the writer/director for this date but does mention on 14 April 1994 that they are the writer/director for that week but for 14 April 1994 in the book it says Writer: Ashley Pharoah and Director: Keith Boak. I am not sure which information to trust?

I have included a picture of the page of the book.

• Genome 12 April 1994
• Genome 14 April 1994
• Page from First 10 Years

Somehow it seem to start to match up again at

• Genome 28 April 1994

Maybe there's an episode there that shouldn't be there.

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:06, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I wouldn't know which to trust either. You could leave it blank and put a hidden comment saying it's one or the other according to different sources. Do the other episodes for period match? AnemoneProjectors 19:08, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

Oh hang on I didn't see the bit where you said it matches up again. Which other episodes don't match? Does it seem like something is missing somewhere? You could do a little table to compare them :-) AnemoneProjectors 19:10, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Hi thanks for the suggestion, I have left a hidden comment. I have made a little table. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 22:51, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

Air Date	Genome Writer/Director	Book Writer/Director	Notes
12 April 1994	No info	Tony Jordan/Leonard Lewis
14 April 1994	Tony Jordan/Leonard Lewis	Ashley Pharoah/Keith Boak
18 April 1994	No info	Ashley Pharoah/Keith Boak
19 April 1994	No info	Ashley Pharoah/Keith Boak
21 April 1994	Ashley Pharoah/Keith Boak	Example
25 April 1994	Susan Boyd/Barbara Emile	Susan Boyd/Philip Casson	Genome has Barbara Emile as the director but mentions Philip Casson as producer might have it wrong way around?
26 April 1994	Susan Boyd	Susan Boyd/Philip Casson
28 April 1994	Jeff Povey/Bill Hays	Jeff Povey/Bill Hays	Seems to Match
3 May 1994	No info	Jeff Povey/Bill Hays
5 May 1994	week's episodes written Jeff Povey/Barrie Shore. Director:Bill Hays	Barrie Shore/Bill Hays
9 May 1994	No info	Joanne Maguire/Geoff Feld
10 May 1994	No info	Joanne Maguire/Geoff Feld
12 May 1994	week's episodes written Joanne Maguire/Len Collin and Director: Geoff Feld.	Len Collin/Geoff Feld
16 May 1994	Tony McHale/Stephen Garwood	Tony McHale/Stephen Garwood	Seems to Match
17 May 1994	Tony McHale	Tony McHale/Stephen Garwood
19 May 1994	No info	Tony McHale/Stephen Garwood
23 May 1994	Gillian Richmond/Penelope Shales	Gillian Richmond/Penelope Shales	Seems to Match
24 May 1994	No info	Gillian Richmond/Penelope Shales
26 May 1994	No info	Gillian Richmond/Penelope Shales
30 May 1994	No info	Michael Robartes/ Jeff Naylor
31 May 1994	No info	Michael Robartes/ Jeff Naylor

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234:Oh yeah found a useful piece of software called nbClipboard it's useful if you have lots to copy and paste. You basically just copy text and it queues it into a list then you can paste multiple items from that list one after another instead of going back and forth.

• http://download.cnet.com/nbClipboard/3000-2384_4-10846697.html

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:29, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Lastly I read somewhere I think It was Amazon that there was an updated version of the first ten years book published the year after in paperback. I had the hardback and it only went up 31 October 1994. I have received the paperback version and I am glad to say it goes up to 16 February 1995. Not a huge difference but it did confirm that 25 December 1994 is episode number 111A and some more directors/writers.

The three new pages can be found here https://www.flickr.com/photos/30536759@N07/albums/72157671061439105

Strangely though even though it was published by a different publisher. The episode list remains the same with regard to no Episode 10 in the first reset. Which I find really strange might have to ask the written archives about that one. I did come up with a theory for this as it would make some sense as on the Reset 1 List they messed up the third programme number and didn't notice till later see below

• 11 April 1994 LDSE001R
• 12 April 1994 LDSE002K
• 14 April 1994 LDSE004Y
• 18 April 1994 LDSE005S

I have a strong feeling that the mistake is somewhere within the first reset 11 April 1994 to 2 August 2001 as all the script numbers seem to match up in the second reset.

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:26, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: Is it worth noting that from 1 June 1998 to 13 April 1999 the writer/director credits were shown at the start of an episode rather that at then end. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:47, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I would say if there is a source directly supporting this, it could be a nice bit of information. Soaper1234 - talk 20:24, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234: This sounds like trivia or WP:CRUFT to me so I doubt it should be included. — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 20:52, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

Complaints and Ofcom investigations

@Kelvin 101: I noticed you made this edit and rememebred I had made a list of some of the complaints at User:AnemoneProjectors/EastEnders complaints back in 2010. This should help in relation to some other eps, though I know my list is incomplete, even up to 2010 when I made it. AnemoneProjectors 15:09, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi thanks I didn't know you had already complied a list its very useful most of the links where broken. I have added the archived version but there a few that are still broken because there's no archived version but later I am sure we can find them from other sources. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 17:04, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

I had forgotten about that page until I saw that edit, wasn't sure I still had it actually! AnemoneProjectors 17:48, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Would technial glitches http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/furious-eastenders-fans-demand-apology-6686237 also go in the notes section? Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:38, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

Yes, this one is mentioned in the 2015 list I think but I added a citation needed tag because I probably watched on demand and didn't witness it - so I'm glad you've found that. AnemoneProjectors 21:18, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Do you think it's worth mentioning the complaint of EastEnders on Points of View with regard to the script writing. Not sure if this would be better going on the mainpage or the 2018 episode page.

EastEnders complaint is at 3m 44s>

• https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0b2wwt1/points-of-view-2018-episode-2

EastEnders Response:

Since it began in 1985, EastEnders has consistently entertained its millions of viewers each week with a huge breadth of wide ranging storylines, from the dramatic and powerful to the light and humorous. Our audience have a long and established relationship with the show and have come to expect our big dramatic moments as they continually follow the lives of those who live in Walford. EastEnders always seeks to tell new stories to entertain our viewers and we have a big summer ahead. We continue to be one of the most popular shows on the BBC and remain one of the most continuously requested shows on BBC iPlayer.

EastEnders Spokesperson

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:10, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: That's interesting. I don't think it would fit into the 2018 page, also it's only a few people's opinions and maybe not reflective of the overall opinion of viewers. I'm not sure where it could be mentioned in the main page either. — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 08:28, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Runtimes

57 minutes should be treated the same as 60 minutes, because no episode is ever 30 minutes, but they are still listed as 30 minutes, most are 27 or 28 minutes. AnemoneProjectors 23:38, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Thanks I was only going by the Schedule times. But I will bear it in mind for the future thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 13:14, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Oh yeah if there is a news bulletin in the schedule then the schedule will have EE as 57 mins or whatever. But I think it still counts as a 60 min episode, because they still do it now with the 30 min eps. Last Friday's episode is considered to be 30 mins, but was actually less than 29 minutes. AnemoneProjectors 13:38, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Character: Estella Hulton

Going off topic I was trying to find a character today called "Estella Hulton" (2002) played by Ellen Thomas but there doesn't seem to be anything on her. Tried to find her first appearance date but can't seem to find one. Any ideas? Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:58, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Hope you don't mind, I disambiguated the link to the actress, and put this in a new section. Well, it's been on Wikipedia for a long time that Ellen Thomas played Estella Hulton, making Claudette Hubbard her fourth role in the show. EastEnders Wikia doesn't have dates for her, but says she was the mother of Precious Hudson. IMDb only lists two of her roles, even though she's played four (or 3 of this one is fake). We don't have an entry for her here, but Precious's page lists Estella as her mother. We have her on the past list of characters. I'm going to tweet the actress. AnemoneProjectors 08:11, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Ellen Thomas has confirmed that she has played four roles in EastEnders. anemoneprojectors 09:26, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi I have found Ellen Thomas's appearance as Estella Hulton. She only appeared once 21 June 2002 to try and help her daughter Precious Hudson escape from Angel Hudson. Oddly enough it a Julia theme episode were Anthony asks Zoe to marry him. It only occured to me today to look at the character Precious Hudson appearances and use the on screen credits to find her. I assume she would be listed under others? Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

@Kelvin 101: Nicely found, well done. Yes, others :-) — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 18:48, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Technical glitches

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi I just saw an article about the technical glitch in last night's episode and noticed that you have noted it in the 2016 Episodes article. It must have only been some parts of the country as I did not experience it. I was watching it on BBC One HD (London Version) as we do not have a HD version for are part of the country yet. Might by only SD broadcasts that were affected.

It going me thinking if there has been many more technical glitches we might be able to find on the news websites.

The only other one I could find was a sound glitch 22 October 2015 but thats already been noted http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/furious-eastenders-fans-demand-apology-6686237

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

@Kelvin 101: We did briefly discuss this already (#Complaints and Ofcom investigations) - It's the reason I added it, because I thought we had discussed it. I didn't spot that the source (and one on the Metro site) said that only some viewers were affected. I don't often get the chance to watch live, I watched it via Virgin Media's on demand service at 7 o'clock this morning! It might have been only SD or only one particular BBC region, perhaps. Unless the BBC comment, we might not know. I'm not aware of other glitches, but if we find evidence of any others in the past we can add them in. anemoneprojectors 12:50, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Ratings before 1998

Before 1998, we only know the ratings of the highest episode that year. Therefore, the rest should either be marked with N/A or the column could be removed for the rest of the months. Keeping the column would be consistent. Or we could keep them all in and put "Unknown". I think that's better as it shows that it is unknown. Any thoughts? anemoneprojectors 16:47, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I was thinking for marking it with this line — as it looks a bit better than N/A. I used it here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:AnemoneProjectors/List_of_EastEnders_episodes_(1988)#Spin-off_episodes to show Civvy Street does not have an episode number. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

@Kelvin 101: I've put "unknown" across the board other than in the years where no ratings are known, in which case I've removed the column and put a note at the top of the episode list. I think a dash is unclear in its meaning, whereas "unknown" unambiguously means it is unknown. A dash could mean "there is no rating" but there is, it's just not known. anemoneprojectors 18:45, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I agree I will put unknown, I wonder how articles like List of Doctor Who episode got all the ratings. That was a good spot for episode 779, I wonder if I asked would he tell us other numbers from his scripts. This would be great reference points. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 18:57, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I saw the interview on Twitter because I'm following everything Redwater related and Matthew Graham is one of the writers. If he remembers his first episode, maybe he remembers the others. I just sent him a quick tweet! Good question about Doctor Who... anemoneprojectors 20:49, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Seems there is a site with all the DW stats [11] but the question is where did they get the numbers from?! anemoneprojectors 20:52, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I found the rating for Part 1 and 2 Christmas Day 1995 http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12055836.Bringing_in_the_old_to_ring_in_the_new/ but they may not be 100% acurate as you mentioned it take a while to get them. So these are properly just overnights. Should it still be added as its the only data we have? Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

@Kelvin 101: Yeah they are overnights, but if it's all we have then that's fine. anemoneprojectors 21:11, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:I am finding a few ratings, on the only EastEnders site via the internet archive. http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.bbc.co.uk/eastenders/eastenders/episodes/classic_content/classic* Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

Very good. Add it to the resource list :-) anemoneprojectors 22:22, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I have conflicting information with regard to the ratings

• 19 February 1985 the BBC say it was 13 million but The Guardian say 17 million.
• 25 December 1995 the BBC say it was 17 million but The Herald says 14.3 million for part 1 and 16.1 million for part 2.
• 17 April 1997 BBC say 17.8 million but Digital Spy say 22 million.

Not sure which ones we should use. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:28, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Neither if we can't know which is correct. Are there other ratings that agree between the BBC and other sources? anemoneprojectors 21:37, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Actually I would trust the table on the Guardian site. Go with that. What are the links for the others? anemoneprojectors 21:39, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Here are the link, do you think we could incorporate The Guardians table into the ratings section of the EastEnders article?

• http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0276ht4
• http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12055836.Bringing_in_the_old_to_ring_in_the_new/
• http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/eastenders/news/a200981/eastenders-moments-ricky-and-biancas-*first-wedding/
• http://www.theguardian.com/media/broadcast/tables/0,7683,445499,00.html

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:49, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I think I trust the Herald source as it was written at the time so will be from overnight data provided at the time. For 1997, Digital Spy are saying "around 22 million" and the source is from 2010, so it could be wrong. We can certainly use the Guardian's table to reference what the most watched EastEnders episodes are, but we don't need to list all 20. anemoneprojectors 22:06, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

By the way BBC News also confirm 22 million for Bianca's wedding - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/219572.stm - it's in her article. anemoneprojectors 13:19, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Thanks for that I was looking at the rating for the first episode

The BBC say 13 million http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0276ht4 and so does this book "Understanding the Media: A Practical Guide" https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=tbGAAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA115&lpg=PA115&dq=19+february+1985+eastenders+million&source=bl&ots=jUzr-Gw0N_&sig=2FuLg1BEWvIwnMrzX3hy67phhCg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjW4uCarsbMAhVIJMAKHb-JBBkQ6AEISDAH#v=onepage&q=19%20february%201985%20eastenders%20million&f=false

but then again The Guardian and The Telegraph say 17 million which is quite a difference http://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/feb/08/eastenders-bbc-25-years http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2016/02/29/the-history-of-eastenders/ Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

If there's a difference between sources, I think we need actual data from BARB. anemoneprojectors 21:44, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:I did email BARB about 1985 data just to double check but they said they don't have any, like you said they only start from 1998 even though they were formed in 1981. I then spoke to Kaleidoscope on facebook and they mentioned there was other companies called MRIB and BMRB who use to collect ratings before BARB, although they are not sure how to get into contact with them or if they even still exist. They do mention MRIB on the digital spy forums. http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?p=63951012#1185 Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 14:14, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Silly me MRIB must just be for music charts although it did just lead me to a pdf on the BFI site http://www.bfi.org.uk/sites/bfi.org.uk/files/downloads/bfi-the-stats-an-overview-of-the-film-television-video-and-dvd-industries-in-the-uk-1990-2003.pdf#page=20 which 27 entries for EastEnders. I will add it to the resource list. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

@Kelvin 101: That's a great resource, it even has ratings for Ricky & Bianca! I thought BARB might hold some older ratings but their FAQ says some other organisations might, but it all looks complicated. By the way I think if every relevant rating has been taken from a particular resource, we might as well take it off the list. anemoneprojectors 15:34, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Good idea have removed all ones that are not relevant, it would appear the pdf also contains ratings that excludes the sun omnibus and their source is BARAB even though on BARAB site includes the omnibus figures. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:28, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101:BARB including the omnibus figure is the same as them today including the iPlayer figures. If BARB has a figure, that's what we should use as these are the official ratings. anemoneprojectors 21:40, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I asked Coronation Street Wikia how they got viewing figures for pre 1998 BARB and their response is encouraging.

"Most of the figures from 1961 to 1997 came from back issues of two industry magazines - "Television Mail" from 1961 to 1973 and thereafter "Broadcast" (it's basically the same magazine, it just had a relaunch in '73).

If there's a chart placing alongside the figure, it came from the magazine, and the back issues were in the British Newspaper Library which is a part of the normal British Library, now based in St. Pancras. Now, that magazine only published the figure when the programme appeared in the top 10 (up to 1961) or the top 20 (thereafter).

Any viewing figure that's outside the top 10/20 and therefore on our site as "chart placing unknown" came from the Independent Broadcasting Authority archive which is held by the British Film Institute and can be viewed by appointment at their Rueben Library on London's South Bank. Post 1997 figures come from the BARB website."

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 00:36, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Well I've just seen some of the older ratings you've added and some of them seem to come from BARB itself, but they were published in various printed sources. That means BARB held this data at the time and probably still do today. I wonder if they have any plans to put this information on their website. That would give us official ratings for every episode. anemoneprojectors 18:01, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Yeah I came across those ones by chance. I did contact the Research Co-Ordinator at BARB a while ago and did ask about pre 1998 data but they said:

"Regarding your question on Eastenders, I’m afraid that the only historical information we have are what is already available on the Top 30 Weekly Programmes report on our website. I have checked our files, and we don’t have any information going back that far."

Today I received a copy of "EastEnders: The Inside Story" it has some useful information that we may be able to use on the main page after this project is complete it does confirm 17 million as the first episode rating and its give separate ratings for the two Christmas Day 1986 episode as the 30.1 million viewers was the combined figure. I will add those to figure now. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

@Kelvin 101: Maybe you already told me about BARB's reply - but if the information was recorded, I wonder why they no longer have it. Oh well, we'll just use any ratings that we find. When you say the main page, which page do you mean? anemoneprojectors 20:12, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Sorry should have been more descriptive the EastEnders article, we could in the future work toward a good article status for that page. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

Just had a quick look them must of got the articles from here

• https://archive.thestage.co.uk/Default/Skins/TheStage/Client.asp?Skin=TheStage&enter=true&AppName=2&AW=1484343246322
• http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/search/results?basicsearch=eastenders%20million&exactsearch=false&newspapertitle=the%20stage&page=4#

Looks like you can search but if you want to view the information it requires a subscription thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:44, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

It looks like every rating would be here for 1985, it's just a shame it subscription based. Unless its available at a library.

• http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/search/results/1985-01-01/1985-12-31?basicsearch=barb%20ratings&somesearch=barb%20ratings&exactsearch=false&newspapertitle=the%20stage&sortorder=dayearly

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:58, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Well, if you want to put it in the EastEnders article, why wait until this project is done? Couldn't you do it before then?

The British Newspaper Archive would be amazing. Wikipedia sadly no longer has any free accounts available for it. And they newspaper archive sites they still have accounts for don't have the information we want. However, I'm requested a free BNA account in case they open it up again. anemoneprojectors 09:00, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:A friend of mine has given me access to The Listener Historical Archive. It basically BARBS National Top Tens, what you see on this link http://christmasdaybbc1.weebly.com/uploads/1/6/1/2/16123074/screen_shot_2016-08-04_at_00.12.59.png

Only problem is the version I have access to only goes up to January 1991. which would means 1991-June 1998 would be without viewing figures but by that time you may hopeful have access to the British Newspaper Archive. I will try and work my way through 1985 today being very careful with the referencing. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:26, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: That is very good of your friend! I'm pretty sure that from 1985 to 1991, EastEnders will have always made the top 10, so we should be able to get every rating. Where is their Historical Archive? anemoneprojectors 10:50, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: It's not an physical rather a digital online one but only accessible to students whose universities have access to http://www.gale.com/site/pdf/Listenerfactsheet.pdf thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:30, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I was hoping it would be online - I'm just trying to establish how you would cite it. I think this should be how:

<ref name="[name]">{{cite journal |last1=[name] |first1=[name] |date=[date] |url=[the link it is now at in the archive] |title=[article title] |access-date=[date you accessed it] |url-access=limited |format=[PDF, or something other than html] |journal=[[The Listener (magazine)|The Listener]] |volume=[if any] |issue=[number] |page=[number] |via=[[Gale (publisher)|Gale]] }}</ref>

The "url-access=limited" part and the "via" part are important, I just wanted to let you know that that's how to cite it! It's a shame that only institutions are allowed to access it, though I see on their website that some libraries might have copies. anemoneprojectors 16:49, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: did you see what I said about how to cite from The Listener? anemoneprojectors 13:05, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Also, you can remove the notes about ratings being combined with the omnibus (because they all will be), but this should be noted in the part where we say where the ratings came from. anemoneprojectors 13:07, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi I hadn't see your previous post. I will make all the necessary changes. There are a few ratings in 1985 they don't have as EE was not in the top ten for a few episodes. In 1986 there are some that were not in Lister but I also have access to Broadcast and The Stage might have them as sometimes Listener skips the odd week. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 14:29, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: That's ok, I had a feeling you hadn't seen my message so I thought I'd check. I don't know if you noticed but on User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes I noted that some ratings need adding or finding, so wondered if you wanted to add these to your list of missing information. If the other sources have the ratings that would be great. I saw that some were outside of the top 10, which is a shame. Perhaps you could list those dates with the rating of the number 10 programme for those weeks, so we know that it was less than that number, if that makes sense. anemoneprojectors 15:03, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Oh and if it's Broadcast the "via" is ProQuest rather than Gale. Thanks anemoneprojectors 16:25, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Thanks for pointing that out. I was looking at figures were BARB do not give the time of broadcast if in two parts. Only problem is the Broadcast magazine gives BARB's Top 70 lists but it only lists EE viewing figure without Sun Omnibus added on. I have listed the data below I found. Is its ok to assume that the large viewing figure would be the large figure after the omnibus?

Top 70 list

• Friday 25 December 1998
• 5.25pm = 10.81
• 8.30pm = 15.04

• Friday 31 December 1999
• 5.35pm = 12.85
• 8.05pm = 13.44

• Tuesday 31 October 2000
• 7.30pm = 14.03
• 8.40pm = 11.90

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 23:07, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

To be consistent we should use the figure combined with the omnibus - so I think it's fairly safe to assume what you suggest. anemoneprojectors 23:18, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Just checking - were those 9 missing ratings from 1985 really outside of the entire top 50 for BBC One those weeks? I'm finding that hard to believe, as all the others seemingly were all within the top 10. Could you make a note somewhere (on your missing data page maybe) of the lowest available rating for those weeks so we know that the rating would have been lower than that number? I'd be interested to see a screenshot if you could do that, just to see for myself as I find it so hard to believe! Not that I don't believe you, obviously! But I find it incredible. anemoneprojectors 09:47, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

I will try and get that information for you as soon as possible. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:51, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. I know I'm making you go back to things you've already looked at! So I hope it's not too much trouble. anemoneprojectors 22:42, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

By the way I'm assuming that the link for "BRITISH TOP 100 week ending 1 January 1989" on Broadcast that confirms ratings for 27 and 29 December 1988 also confirms CivvyStreet's rating on 26 December - the current reference for CivvyStreet is exactly the same but witout the link. Is the rating exactly 7 million? anemoneprojectors 22:59, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi I have looked again at the top tens and make a note of the lowest top tens on your suggestion above, which are available on the below link.

• https://www.flickr.com/photos/30536759@N07/31848630084/

With regard to the top 50 looking at it again that one is not weekly but rather monthly combined across BBC1/BBC2/ITV/Channel4.

But I did find weekly top 100 data combined across BBC1/BBC2/ITV/Channel4 but it seems to be sketchy especially the first mentioning it aired on Fri. These look like average figures rather than combined with both Tue/Thur and Sun.

• National top 100 - Week ending 3 March 1985

Position= 20 - EastEnders - *Day= Fri *Millions = 13.40

• National top 100 - Week ending 10 March 1985

Position= 24 - EastEnders - *Day= Tue, Thur, Sun *Millions =12.35

• National top 100 - Week ending 17 March 1985

Position= 27 - EastEnders - *Day= Tue, Thur, Sun *Millions =11.78

• National top 100 - Week ending 24 March 1985

Position= 23 - EastEnders - *Day= Tue, Thur, Sun *Millions = 12.48

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 23:13, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Thanks. It can understand them being outside of the top 10s, so thanks for checking the top 50 again, if it's a top 50 for a whole month rather than a week then best to change it back to saying they are outside the weekly top 10s. The top 100 looks sketchy so best avoided. anemoneprojectors 23:21, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: We have a slight problem, I was reading ahead to 1998 and it turns out although the viewing figures on BARB site from July 1998 are combined with the Omnibus. The three magazine we are using switch from Combined figures to singular figures at different times so we only have combined figures up to April 1995. Ignore The Listener as that stops publication in January 1991. But the other two magazines info is below.

• Broadcast

Up to December 1992 (combined viewing figures) - January 1993 onwards (Not combined viewing figures)

• The Stage

Up to April 1995 (combined viewing figures) - May 1995 onwards (Not combined viewing figures)

I was just wondering how to proceed as the first half of 1998 will would be singular figures and the second half combined.

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 22:54, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I would rather be as consistent as possible, so could you use only The Stage's combined figures from February 1993 up to April 1995 (you can use Broadcast or The Stage up to January 1993)? After that, I guess we will have to use the non-combined figures from May 1995 to the end of June 1998 (using either source), then combined again from 29 June 1998 to whenever they stopped being combined. We'll just have to mention how it is done in the part where we talk about ratings. anemoneprojectors 11:40, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

Just a note that The Stage is also from ProQuest, not Gale, because the URL is search.proquest.com. Thanks! anemoneprojectors 16:43, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I noticed that you changed the "journal" field to "publisher", probably without realising, meaning that names like The Stage don't appear in italics. I don't know how many pages this has happened on but I noticed it on 1991 and 1992. So please be aware that the name of the publication should use "journal" and not "publisher". Thanks. anemoneprojectors 10:26, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Thanks for pointing that out I will recheck all pages. A news story saw today says that The Daily Mail Is no longer a reliable source on Wikipedia. I am not sure but one or two of our BARB data was published in The Daily Mail not sure if this would be an expectation because the information wasn't written by them but only published by them or is it better to air on the side of caution and find an alternative either in The Listener, Broadcast or Stage. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 12:00, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I saw that and a few of us have been discussing it on Twitter. I haven't read the actual Wikipedia discussion but it seems likely that Daily Mail shouldn't be used for BLPs but for soaps it should be fine, we will still use it for reception because that doesn't need to be factual. The ratings should be fine, and I'd rather have sources that can be viewed by everyone where they are available, not only those with access to those archives. anemoneprojectors 12:26, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Sorry I'm a bit behind as you can probably tell, but I just looked at the ratings for 1997 and you've said that the majority of them are not combined with the omnibus, however, there aren't any notes to say which are and which aren't, so does that mean none of them are combined? Also, for 15 December 1997 you've put "07.13", I just wanted to check that is definitely meant to be 7.13 because there wouldn't normally be a leading 0. Thanks anemoneprojectors 18:38, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi 1997 all figures are not combined because Broadcast and The Stage use both singular figures at this point which is strange considering BARB used combined after July 1998 on its site. The reason for the leading zero was the keep the ratings in line with each other. A bit off topic have you seen the peer review? for EastEnders page. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:57, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

In that case the bit about the majority not being combined can come out as none of them are. No need for leading zeroes, I was just checking that it wasn't a typo. Thanks. anemoneprojectors 20:06, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Someone else's research

@AnemoneProjectors: It would appear someone else has started researching old EE viewing figures they have some we don't but comparing a few of ours against theirs they seem to match.

• https://sites.google.com/site/eastendersratings19851994/1985

Kelvin 101 (talk) 11:22, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

Adding a break because this is a very long section. @Kelvin 101: Well, that's interesting. They give their source as "various newspapers as well as The Stage Archive", and they're only missing two episodes. Also, they have both combined and non-combined ratings for some years, which would be great to be able to include where available. So maybe that information is available. Also, they were sent ratings by someone from DS forums for 1995-July 1998, where we have a mixture of combined and non-combined ratings, and some missing. So that would be all good to get hold of. In fact, for almost every year they have both single and combined ratings, even after July 1998. But there's no way to contact this person. Their own personal website can't be used, but the information must be out there. — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 16:19, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi I seem to remember when I carried out the ratings research as I didn't have the physical magazines just access to scans that some of the issues were missing from the Broadcast Magazines.

I contacted the researcher and they gave me their sources.

These are all from Broadcast:

• 28 February 1985 - 12.61m - Page 42 (Published, 22 March)
• 7 March 1985 - 10.82m - Page 50 (Published, 29 March)
• 14 March 1985 - 11.43m - Page 50 (Published, 5 April)
• 19 and 21 March 1985 - 12.81m and 12.14m - Page 38 (Published, 12 April)
• 28 March 1985 - 10.59m - Page 75 (Published, 19 April)
• 4 April 1985 - 12.16m - Page 32 (Published, 26 April)

The only rating Broadcast has for 28/30 May is the week's average (8.34m) (Page 44, 21 June)

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 17:01, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: So do you think we can put these in? They can be referenced to the original publication without any online source (unless one comes up). The 28/30 May average can put put in a note if we leave it as unknown. Sorry for taking so long to reply! — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 14:21, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Yeah I would think these are ok because they are referenced. Not sure if you know that a number of libraries have access to The Time Digital Archive.

I am assuming from your bio you live in Hertfordshire. You just need your library card number.

• https://www.hertfordshire.gov.uk/services/libraries-and-archives/books-and-reading/reference-library-online/reference-library-online.aspx#newsandmags

I had a quick look at The Times via my library and there are some EastEnders articles that might be useful.

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:38, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi I think The Stage recorded single viewing figures from 1989 onwards. Is it worth us recording these are a more true reflection of the actual viewing figure. I can reference them but may take a while as I would have to go to the Library to access The British Newspaper Archive which has access to The Stage. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 22:44, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: You mean without the omnibus? I think we should use combined with the omnibus where available as it's the total viewership and Wikipedia requires "final" viewing figures. It's basically the 1980s version of the 28-day, four-screen ratings we have now. We use BARB from 1998, and they use combined ratings up to the end of 2001, and it's only the period of 1993 to 1998 where some combined ratings are missing - so my preference would be to get them all combined from 1985 to 2001. this person has done plenty of research on that already, but even they couldn't get all the combined ratings as noted on their "About" page. — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors📽️🌼🗨️💬 23:01, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I will try and get references for the combined rating for 1993-2001 the next time I go to the Library, might take a few trips as they will have access to Stage Newspaper. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 17:34, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

That's very kind of you! Thank you Kelvin 101! — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors📽️🌼🗨️💬 18:13, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Images in the lists

Moving away from episode numbering for a bit.... Seen what I did at User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (2016)#Cast and characters with images? I think images in articles in a great idea if we have them available but I wondered if a side gallery of cast changes is a good idea or is it better to have a larger gallery section with a selection of cast members (not actually sure I like that idea, it could be a pretty big gallery). We could expand it to other years and could use cast, sets, props or costumes to illustrate certain storylines too, for example, the top of the January 2016 section could have an image of Linda's pink dressing gown because it relates to her and Mick's wedding, or images of murder weapons could go in relevant months. As long as there's enough space. anemoneprojectors 14:23, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: It's certainly a good idea and it looks really good to illustrate the characters but sometimes its hard to find licence free images to use. I think there some props pictures that can be used here https://www.flickr.com/photos/mediamuseumevents/sets/72157623334996871/ Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 18:32, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: All the free images we have are listed at WP:EE/IMAGES (or can be found on Commons:Category:EastEnders). All the ones in the 2016 episodes list I took myself. Those images don't have a WikiCommons-compatible licence (they are non-commercial, no derivatives, but to be on Commonts, commercial use and derivatives must be allowed). I might have a photo of the iron, just not sure of the quality (just checked, it's terrible!). anemoneprojectors 18:40, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101 and AnemoneProjectors: Hi, first of all sorry I have been in and out of the project over the last few months. May I add the work you two are putting into this is fantastic! On the images, I think they are a fantastic idea and I think they work well in the cast section, descriping the cast movement. I think adding storyline prop images may be a good idea in some areas, but may overflow it in other areas. Soaper1234 (talk) 18:12, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

We'd need enough text written in the section for the image not to mess with the episode tables. anemoneprojectors 01:25, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

@Soaper1234: Thanks for your kind words, welcome back. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 22:35, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

You may have noticed, but I have included a cast changes gallery in both 2012 and 2013 and plan to add one to 2011 as soon as I add the cast paragraph. Soaper1234 (talk) 19:22, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

I noticed, good job :) anemoneprojectors 15:26, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Template colours

@AnemoneProjectors and Kelvin 101:, I recently noticed the new template colours, matching the title card of that year. I wasn't sure whether it was a great idea to have them fairly dark/dull colours, which are all quite similar too. For example, List of Casualty episodes has a varied set of colours and I feel that something like this may be a better idea. I was wondering either of your thoughts on the topic, Soaper1234 (talk) 14:53, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

@Soaper1234: Do you mean this page User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (article) ? Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:15, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I suppose it is being placed across all pages, but the list is in that page. Soaper1234 (talk) 15:16, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

@Soaper1234 and Kelvin 101: I saw a discussion recently about colours and the guildeline says that colours shouldn't be picked at random but should be show colours, so I decided to look at the different title cards and pick out the 8 most used colours in each, though I then changed a few. Sadly it's mostly grey but if you look at say, Sherlock (TV series), I think the colours there are worse! I looked at Casualty and almost brought it up in discussion as it's just random colours. The colours in the table should then match the colours for each year-list, so I've been putting that in. The table before was random colours, did you not see it? ([12] anemoneprojectors 17:09, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Format of double episodes

When there is a double episode with two numbers, should it take the format

• 3500/01 or
• 3500/3501?

When there are two writers, should it be:

• Person 1/Person 2, or
• Person 1 & Person 2
• something else?

I think we currently have a mixture and therefore all lists should be checked to make them the same. My preference is for full numbers (so if there was 4999/5000, it would be the same as 5100/5101), and for Person 1/Person 2, as I think the ampersand is unencylopaedic. Ideally I'd like the top line of every episode (i.e. the line with the number, date, credits etc) to only be on one line where possible, so we shouldn't force it onto two with <br/>, if it wants to fall onto two lines for certain screen resolutions, let it happen naturally. anemoneprojectors 09:47, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

If in doubt, look at the 2016 list. anemoneprojectors 10:05, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Hi sorry for getting back to you so late I will make sure that all double numbers are in full with a slash and that double writers also have a slash with no line break. I will set aside a day to check all articles using this criteria. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

@Kelvin 101: omg I just wrote 2 replies and my browser decided to close all windows for no reason and it was lost! Argh!No worries about late reply, I'm backlogged on Wiki due to work, so I wasn't sure if I had missed a reply here. We should try to remember to ping every time to make sure. Thanks for taking the time to check, I have done some as I've seen them but wasn't sure what format to use, at least now we know what the consistent format will be. anemoneprojectors 11:41, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Hi thought I better check you said you are in favour of longer number 3270/3271 and not shorter numbers such as 3270/71. Thought I better check since the short numbers are on the 2016 article and that is our template. Your example above are both longer numbers. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 23:14, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Thanks for pointing that out, I guess I started doing it before I decided. Will change it. anemoneprojectors 13:23, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Episodes broadcast at different times

I've noticed some errors when episodes are broadcast at different times, such as series or film titles not being in italics, which they should be. Also, It's better to say something like "This episode was shown at [time] because of [or due to] a broadcast of [or coverage of] [tv show or film or event]." rather than "This episode was shown at [time] because of [or due to] [tv show or film or event]." Also I noticed some of the genome references in the 1997 list are for the wrong date so they may need to be checked. And I don't think we need to add the #time part of the URL to the reference.

@Kelvin 101: Do you check my edits to see what corrections I've made? anemoneprojectors 09:58, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

If in doubt, look at the 2016 list. anemoneprojectors 10:05, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Again sorry for the late reply, I had forgotten all about italicising as often try and get as much done as possible and occasion forget everything that is needed. I will use you wording from now on for the episode broadcast at different times and will backtrack through all the other articles so the wording is the same. The reason I included #time is when copying and pasting they come as standard and it easier for the person who is checking the reference to find.

Funny you should mention episode broadcast at different time just came across 28 June 2004 BARB has it listed as airing at 9pm and straight after it Traffic Cops at 9.30pm but Genome has it airing at EE at 8pm and does not list Traffic Cops. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 22:47, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

No worries, if you're in a hurry I don't mind if you just want to put the words in and fix it later, but if would be good if you could do it at the time. In the case of 28 June 2004, BARB will be more reliable because it uses the actual transmission times, even if it's a minute out! Whereas Genome is what was planned to have happaned. But well spotted. anemoneprojectors 11:41, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Wording

As discussed above you would like episodes that aired at different times, for the sentence structure to be like this "No episode on Thursday 17 June due to Programme Title being shown live".

Just to double check before I change all the pages are you ok with the following sentences examples.

• This episode was originally to be aired Tuesday 15 June but was shown later due to Match of the Day being shown live Tuesday 15 June. The episode aired Wednesday 16 June at 7.30pm
• No episode on Thursday 17 June due to Match of the Day being shown live. These two episode were condensed into an hour long episode Friday 18 June
• This episode was aired on a Saturday as part of a seven daily episodes week at 8.30pm.

If you have any problems with the wording please let me know I am going to try and go through all the pages tomorrow or when the above meets your approval.

Sorry to be a pain as you can problem guess my sentence structure, grammar and spelling are not up to much.

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 18:00, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

How about something like this:

• "This episode was originally scheduled for broadcast on 15 June but due to Match of the Day being shown live, the episode was shown on 16 June at 7.30pm."
• "There was no episode on Thursday 17 June due to Match of the Day being shown live. The episode originally scheduled for broadcast that day was combined with the following episode into an hour-long episode." (broadcast date not needed as it's given already)
• "This episode was broadcast on Saturday at 8.30pm as part of week of seven daily episodes."

I'll check all your changes anyway in case I see anything I think could be improved, so don't worry too much about it. anemoneprojectors 11:41, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Completing project/missing data

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: Hi guys all episode numbers, viewing figures (post 1998), directors/writers (some still need more research) but are more or less done. I have created this page which gives a breakdown or what is still need in each article User:Kelvin 101/List of missing data from year articles it's similar to the main list but lists specifics to allow it easier to research. Any thoughts on when the articles should be moved onto the main space. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:20, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Fab idea! More detailed and organised, I'm trying to get through the cast as quick as possible. Most articles also need summaries as well - I wasn't sure if anyone had any episode DVDs in which they could watch them and write summaries accordingly. Soaper1234 (talk) 18:01, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

@Soaper1234: I unfortunately haven't got any episodes on DVD, only thing I can think of is to rewrite or reword the BBC Genome synopsis. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:15, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234: Cast descriptions and episode summaries are not necessary for an article to be moved into mainspace so they can be worked on at any time. Writers and directors are prefered to be included but if the information isn't reliably available then that's ok. I would prefer to wait until I'm a bit less busy in real life and have worked through my Wiki backlog and checked all these pages before we think about moving to mainspace, though. If that's ok with you guys. Thanks. anemoneprojectors 11:47, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Sure no rush, it could be scheduled for around Christmas or New Year as it would make a nice present to the EastEnders community and gives us a bit more time to research. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:04, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

I should be a lot less busy in December as well. anemoneprojectors 15:07, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

I think late December/early 2017 would be a good time to launch it. I hope to have finished cast by then as well. Soaper1234 (talk) 15:10, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

I just thought I'd check the latest edits of some of the pages but I only checked 2003 as I'm out of time really. I've decided to mark the 2003 list as "CHECKED", if it's ok I want to make sure I've checked every page, so I'll add this note for pages I've gone through. Thanks :-) anemoneprojectors 17:26, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: Good idea writing "CHECKED" so we can see which one are all done. I got an email back BARB about the missing Data for w/e 3 Sep 2000 and w/e 20 Jul 2003, it has now been added. With regard to the below parts they have told me they do not have any records of which rating goes with which part and do not have any broadcast times to match them up.

• Friday 25 December 1998 Part 1 and 2
• Friday 31 December 1999 Part 1 and 2
• Tuesday 31 October 2000 Part 1 and 2
• Monday 25 December 2000 Part 1 and 2
• Tuesday 25 December 2001 Part 1 and 2

I am wondering should rating be left blank or should it have both ratings in the field like this "16.15 /22.14" with a footnote mentioning the order is unknown. I was also thinking about the 1998 World Cup episode rating could we use this BARB rating for it "W.CUP PRE MATCH (SUN 1900) 7.67m" as it would have been before the match according to the Genome synopsis. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:48, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Oh that's really good news about 2000 and 2003, I didn't know they would add that. I'll update the (article) page! I think for those ratings, you would either put both ratings, with a footnote, or put something like "See note" and then explain the whole thing in the note. As for the World Cup one, I agree you can use the pre match rating - just as we can use the Comic Relief ratings for the Comic Relief specials - but again, add a note. anemoneprojectors 15:59, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

I was just thinking we might be able to guess from the broadcast times as to which rating belongs to which episode, though it would still be a guess... also I noticed for example in 2000 you've sourced The Guardian for some ratings but I think we should just go by BARB and BARB alone where BARB is available... and some of them are just rounded up or down anyway. anemoneprojectors 16:09, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234: One more thing I think needs to be added or checked on every page is the paragraph at the top of the "list of episodes" section that talks about the number of episodes, when they are normally broadcast, who executively produced them, where they were repeated (omnibus, BBC Three, etc), and where ratings, airdates, credits, running times, episode summaries and episode numbers are taken from, with references (see 2014 or 2016 for good examples). If there's no reference for episode numbers, don't worry about mentioning it! And if it's a year with no BARB ratings but they are individually referenced, don't worry about mentioning that either. I think we should put on our work in progress list a note to check that paragraph and remove it when it's checked and done. anemoneprojectors 12:03, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

By the way, for the World Cup Special ratings, see what I did for User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (2013)#ep4605a. anemoneprojectors 12:30, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: That sounds like a good idea, will try and go through some year pages today, I have also done what you suggested with the 1998 world cup episode and it does make more sense to have a note explaining that the rating is for the programme the episode was broadcast within. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 13:12, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Cool - at the moment I've been checking articles as they come up on my watchlist, which is why I'm not checking them in order. Do you have a list or a record of episodes shown at different times than the usual? I noticed 2013 and 2014 for example don't have many notes for different times, especially for the Christmas period. anemoneprojectors 13:32, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: This is the list for the usual days User:Kelvin 101/EastEnders Episodes Unusual Airdates but it only covers different days ask it's all extracted for Genome it does not cover different times. It might be a case of flicking through the BBC EE site month by month to see if there is any unusual broadcast times. I did make notes of years that don't have many time differences.

• 2008 (6)
• 2009 (1)
• 2010 (2)
• 2011 (3)
• 2012 (1)
• 2013 (0)

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 16:03, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

I'm wondering if BARB might be quicker for checking different airtimes. One of those years I looked at had a later Christmas Day episode by 30 minutes. anemoneprojectors 16:18, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Good ideas it probably would be quicker to use BARB. I have tried to do what you mention above about the paragraphs about the episode list for 1985. I was too sure how we would reference Julia Smith being the executive producer for all the 1985 episodes. If you are happy with it I will use the text for all the older pages and change any information that changes in that specific year.User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (1985)#List of episodes Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 23:30, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Sorry forgot to ping you for the last message I have done from 1985-1990. I will let you have a look before I go any further. I was curious though about Michael Ferguson taking over as the executive producer in 1989 as it mentions on the page. It still mentions Mike Gibbon on 21 December 1990.

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/search/0/110?adv=1&fri=1&media=tv&mon=1&order=asc&q=EastEnders&svc=9371541&tf=15%3A00&thu=1&tt=23%3A45&tue=1&wed=1&yf=1989&yt=1989#search

Genome first mention Michael Ferguson as the executive producer 2 January 1990

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/4aad32e4ea76497299ab1eec1ebf1277

but it still leaves 26 + 28 December 1989 unaccounted for. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:24, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I've looked at 1985 and made changes, i.e. ratings aren't on BARB pre 1998 - individual ratings are individually cited, so we don't need to say where ratings came from. I changed the part about typically airing 2 episodes a week to "During 1985, EastEnders aired two half-hour episodes...." as it's not the present year and also is no longer the case. I thought we should change the name of the channel to BBC1, as it didn't become BBC One until 1997. Maybe we should change that throughout for 1985 up to 1996. There were no runtimes on that page either so I removed that part, as all episodes were 30 minutes in length. I wouldn't bother saying where numbers came from as we can't really do that for anything prior to when Digital Spy has the current numbering. All that's missing really is a source for the credits, which is most likely one of the books you got, or whatever other sources you used. anemoneprojectors 18:23, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Just a quick one, in reply to you mentioning about the paragraph at the top of the "list of episodes" section. I have added a paragraph and the amount of episode per month for all the pages. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:55, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Thanks, I noticed you had been doing that. I also noticed that on some pages you'd put in the cast section the bit about the number of appearances, but I removed it from some pages where the number of appearances wasn't listed. I'm happy to remove it when I check pages. Most of the pages have moved further up my watchlist now so I'll take a little longer to get to them! But I'll get to them all. anemoneprojectors 17:18, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Thanks for doing that I assumed that the number of episodes in the cast section would have been present in all pages but like you say it makes sense not to be there if there's no cast there. I have been going through BARB adding different broadcast times for 2010 as its lacking and discovered another hong long episode on 23 June 2010. I confirmed it on Getty and thankfully it's not numbered with a two numbers. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 14:47, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Oh, I see the the BBC website confirms it's an hour-long episode! Well spotted. I would have thought it had a double number though, being from a week when only three broadcasts went out, and the other hour-long episodes around it did have double numbers. I don't want it to have a double number though! If you find another hour-long episode we've missed, then we may need to forget about those two "missing" episodes. But I'm happy with it how it is at the moment. @Kelvin 101: Can I see the Getty confirmation? anemoneprojectors 15:36, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Getty is on this link http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/soap-opera-stacey-is-forced-to-accept-ryans-help-when-she-news-footage/BBC_DRAC043X

Its a bit tricky to see in the information as it hidden I use firefox (as chrome doesn't have this option) and change the page style to none but you can search in the source code for Episode 4023. Alternatively there is a picture here. https://www.flickr.com/photos/30536759@N07/30398458902

Digital Spy also confirms its an hour long but they have no number listed. http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/eastenders/news/a231923/potd-stacey-gives-birth-in-eastenders/

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 16:01, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, I've looked at your image and seen this now. I have really bad news though. The image on Digital Spy in the link you gave has the number "40234024" in its file name... the previous page has "40214022" and the next has "40254026", strongly implying that it has a double number after all! The links in question are:

• http://digitalspyuk.cdnds.net/10/23/480x320/gallery_550w_eastenders_40214022_9.jpg from http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/eastenders/news/a230900/potd-adam-kisses-lucy-in-eastenders/
• http://digitalspyuk.cdnds.net/10/23/160x120/gallery_eastenders_40234024_5.jpg from http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/eastenders/news/a231923/potd-stacey-gives-birth-in-eastenders/
• http://digitalspyuk.cdnds.net/10/24/480x320/gallery_550w_eastenders_40254026_11.jpg from http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/eastenders/news/a235506/potd-owens-body-is-uncovered-in-enders/

Therefore we have been wrong about the episode numbers!!!! Then again, there should be a 30 min episode in the middle and I didn't see Digital Spy having that one??? I'm confused again anemoneprojectors 18:44, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

We are now out as of 30 December 2014, but if Digital Spy is missing an episode maybe it was right all along. I have to go now - @Kelvin 101: do you have time to investigate? anemoneprojectors 18:47, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

I solved it, you are correct, it has no double number :-) anemoneprojectors 20:51, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Sorry I couldn't help yesterday, I was away from my computer. Thats a very well detailed investigation there are a few episode with single numbers that last an hour see User:Kelvin 101/EastEnders Hour Long Episodes. After I finish going through BARB this week it might be worth me asking the written archives to check if the single numbered hour long episodes are correct. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 16:42, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: No problem, I enjoyed my little investigation! It was a discrepancy between Digital Spy's "POTD" articles and their actual episode synopses. Yeah there are plenty of those episodes, but it's normally (I thought) when it's written as an hour, rather than two put together, which I would have thought that was, being disrupted by sport. You could check with the archives but there's no point in asking them to confirm anything after 2009 though, because we know we have all the right numbers for that time... (in fact as we're talking about 2010, why did I get stressed? We know EVERYTHING after 2009 is correct!) and I'm 100% there's no point in asking for any of them, as it would be adding numbers rather than removing them. anemoneprojectors 17:12, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I have just discovered that BBC Programme Catalogue (a cutdown version of Infax) is exclusively in British Library in the St Pancras (London) and Boston Spa (Yorkshire) reading rooms. Although it was made available in 2012, I am assuming it's still there as it's still listed on the British Library's website in the reading room section.

• http://blogs.bl.uk/sound-and-vision/2012/10/new-broadcast-media-resources-at-the-british-library.html
• https://www.bl.uk/eresources/newspapers/colindale4.html

I assume this is the kind of information that would be available

• http://web.archive.org/web/20060519063246/http://open.bbc.co.uk/catalogue/infax/programme/LDLH111A

No episode numbers but good for Directors and Writers. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 12:36, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Unfortunately I just had an email back from the British Library

"The BBC Catalogue service at the British Library is based on their Redux off-air recording system (2007-11 records and programmes), but includes historic (i.e. pre-2007) catalogue records from what was Infax as well, going back to the 1950s. The records have been redacted to a degree, to remove some personal information.

However, there are currently technical problems with the BBC Catalogue service and the service is not available in our reading rooms at present. The BBC are looking at the issue, but I have not been given a date when the service is likely to return.

The Fabric archive access system never became a reality after the cancelling of the BBC’s Digital Media Initiative in 2013." Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 13:36, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Well found but also a shame! On the subject of missing credits, I found one from watching old episodes, so I think in those cases we should put in the episode's opening paragraph that credits are from Genome (or wherever) and episodes - I recently added "episodes" as a source to the 2016 page, as obviously watching the episode gives you the credits, run time, etc... and of course the plot. Your missing data list should let us know which year it was I found that one. anemoneprojectors 14:52, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Besides the missing Directors/Writers, is there anything else that I can do, I know you are checking through the articles and Soaper is collating the yearly cast/character lists. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:27, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

I've nearly finished checking, I want to do a final check of each page and then mark them all up as "READY". We should be able to move the pages into mainspace pretty soon. I was using the now completed list of episodes to add and correct numbers in character infoboxes, you could finish that off for me if you wanted? All that needs checking are the yearly character lists from List of EastEnders characters (1998) onwards. I can't remember what else I wanted to check for in the actual episode lists, but if I think of anything you can do I'll let you know. anemoneprojectors 10:21, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Also (forgot to ping!) now you've confirmed the correct spelling of "CivvyStreet" (which I can see is definintely correct from the old screenshot we had of its titles, now deleted), you could also check that all the articles that mention it spell it that way (if you haven't already done so). Not related to this project directly but needs doing :) You can easily find out what links to it by checking "What links here" on the old Civvy Street redirect. anemoneprojectors 11:04, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Thanks for continuing the episode numbers. Just in case you come across any characters with only a single appearance, the field "appeared" needs to be changed to "only" when an episode number is added so instead of "appeared on [date]" it reads "appeared in [episode]". I've fixed the couple I already spotted that needed changing. Thanks. anemoneprojectors 17:19, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Will do. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 13:20, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Not sure how far through you are with the ep numbers but thanks for doing it :-) The following characters arrived or departed on a day with two episodes, so could you help find the correct number? In each case it is hidden.

• Alex Healy (EastEnders)
• Frankie Pierre
• Andrea Price (also her first episode is completely unknown, IMDb has nothing for the actress in 1994)
• Alistair Matthews
• Pauline Fowler
• Sean Slater

Thanks. anemoneprojectors 03:59, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I will check them out. You mention above to check the yearly character lists from List of EastEnders characters (1998) onwards. I have went up to 2013. I have not checked any character lists before 1998. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 14:14, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Thanks. You didn't need to do before 1998 because I already did them. 2014, 2015 and 2016 all have their numbers in already, and they won't need checking because all of the episode numbers in that period were already 100% confirmed, it was the ones before 2009 that weren't. anemoneprojectors 14:20, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:

Hi, the only one I am having trouble with is 31 March 1997 (2 part episode)

• Frankie Pierre

She is mentioned in the synopsis for 31 March 1997, although 2 episodes the synopsis is merged togther.

• http://www.angelfire.com/me/tvsoaps/eastendersguide176.html

She does not appear on the cast list for that episode on Genome.

• http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/8bb9b733449d4713b4f2214dc8c7f498
• http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/e45bf6500c8446f5b61264a3452728a7

IMDB does not have this episode listed as two parts. Which is obviously wrong.

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:14, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: From the angelfire synopses it looks like she wasn't in it on 31 March 1997. The last reference to Frankie doing anything on screen is 25 March ("Frankie tells", "Frankie appeals", "Frankie launches") while the next 2 episodes are references to other people talking about her. IMDb shows that her last appearance was 25 March 1997 and Genome shows her in the episode[13]. I shall change the date in her article. anemoneprojectors 19:33, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

It looks like we originally got the date from her EastEnders profile. There are no archives of it available though. anemoneprojectors 19:36, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Query on 20 March 1997

@Kelvin 101: The list entry for this episode says it was shown at 7pm but Genome has it at 7.30pm and no mention of Sportsnight. Is this correct? anemoneprojectors 22:15, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Good spot I have re-checked March 1997 it was actually the 18 March, I must put the wrong date in thanks for spotting it. I have now corrected it. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 00:17, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Well done, I didn't think to check other dates to see if it was just the wrong date! anemoneprojectors 10:13, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Essential EastEnders Scripts (Book)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi I just bought a book Essential EastEnders Scripts written in 2003, it has extracts from old scripts with airdate and episode number although as its 2003 reset numbers but I find it strange if you look the reset list with the air dates only 17 October 1996 seems to be two out. I wouldn't mention it but thats how many we were out before on the main list. If nothing else it confirms the writers.

Reset Episode Numbers according to scripts:

#	Date Aired	Writer
194	25 December 1986	Tony Holland
248	2 July 1987	Charlie Humphreys
401	17 October 1996	Tony McHale
479	17 April 1997	Tony Jordan
756	31 December 1998	Simon Ashdown
34	2 October 2001	Tony Jordan

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:39, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I think that's interesting but to be honest I don't think it affects us. Your reset list seems to be out anyway from 26 December 1995 to 31 March 1997, so that number (401) fits in with those ones being out! I won't worry about it! It's a good source for writers though. anemoneprojectors 07:26, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

Navigation template

When all the pages are moved into mainspace, they will need to be added to the navigation template. I just wondered what you guys thought might be the best layout out of the three ideas I had at User:AnemoneProjectors/Template:EastEnders. Personally I favour either the 2nd or 3rd ones over the 1st. @Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234: thanks. anemoneprojectors 08:59, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: The second and third look good, I personally am leaning more towards the second one. thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

Thanks. The thing I like about the third one is that it's clear that each episode or week is from a particular year. Well I can always do number 2 and then discuss it on the template's talk page at the time. anemoneprojectors 18:08, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

I too am a fan of the second template, but as AP says we can discuss it on the template talk page at a later date Soaper1234 (talk) 08:31, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

However, on second looking, I'm prefering the bracketed template because it is clearer. Soaper1234 (talk) 21:35, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Ratings 25 December 1999

Hi @Kelvin 101: the ratings for 25 December 1999 are separated despite no times being given on BARB, and 31 December 1999 being combined. Could you check this for me? Thanks. anemoneprojectors 15:36, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi I just checked 25 December 1999 it has times EASTENDERS (SAT 1753) 11.96 and EASTENDERS (SAT 2029) 12.43. It strange how the 25 December has times but the 31 December does not. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:45, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

Oh you're right, never mind. I didn't see that it had the times! Duh! anemoneprojectors 15:48, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

Incorrect credits

3 November 2016

@Kelvin 101: I wondered if you could do me a favour, similar to what we had with the Mike Rendon character where he was credited but we couldn't see him on screen... Could you check the 3 November 2016 episode and see if you can find Tina, Denise or Kim in the episode? I basically tick off the characters credited online as they appear, and I didn't see those three, but they were credited on screen! Kush made a very minor appearance, so it could have been something similar. But I've rewatched some and not seen them, especially in the one scene Vincent appears in talking to Jack about Kim's theory test. I don't want to count them if they weren't in the episode. Thanks. anemoneprojectors 09:42, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Sure I will take a look thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 16:35, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: You are absolutely right Tina, Denise and Kim are not present. I also have noticed that Jerome who works at the arches appeared see below image but you cannot see his head but he has a different colour overalls to Ethan. Jerome's is navy blue were as Ethan's is grey. http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/eastenders/images/e/e3/Jerome_%283_November_2016%29.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20161105171145

I suspect its maybe because the pre wedding episode (Thursday) and wedding day episode (Friday) scenes might not have been record consecutively and they just copied and pasted the cast for both episodes and only took into account guest cast. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 17:30, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

These uncredited but named extras are a pain - we have to look out for them now! so annoying. Thanks for double checking that episode for me - I thought I was right. I seem to recall someone did point out on Twitter that the cast list was the same for the 2 eps! Not seen the wedding yet :-) anemoneprojectors 19:53, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I mentioned this to iPlayer and they contacted EE who confirmed that they were add in error and have apologised for any inconvenience.

The credits have since been corrected on the website.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b081vmx1/credits

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 23:59, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

That's good, but odd that they were still credited on screen. Normally if it's an error on the website it wouldn't appear on the broadcast (one recent episode had 5 characters missing from the broadcast and they weren't credited on screen). I've counted at least 30 such errors so far this year! anemoneprojectors 08:02, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: have you kept any notes, if so the BBC might fix them. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:20, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Yeah here's a list of times I noticed a character was credited online but didn't appear.

Character	Actor	Date
Amy Mitchell	Abbie Knowles	14/03/2016
Paramedic	Melissa Dean	14/03/2016 (Note: another paramedic appeared the next day uncredited, don't know if it was her)
Dr Rhys Thomas	Daniel Llewelyn-Williams	14/03/2016
Jack Branning	Scott Maslen	17/03/2016 part 1
Shirley Carter	Linda Henry	11/04/2016
Paul Coker	Jonny Labey	12/04/2016
Billy Mitchell	Perry Fenwick	12/04/2016
Linford Short	Leon Lopez	12/04/2016
Kathy Sullivan	Gillian Taylforth	14/04/2016
Jack Branning	Scott Maslen	15/04/2016
Abi Branning	Lorna Fitzgerald	15/04/2016
Linford Short	Leon Lopez	22/04/2016
Jay Brown	Jamie Borthwick	28/04/2016
Les Coker	Roger Sloman	20/05/2016
Kim Fox-Hubbard	Tameka Empson	20/05/2016
Steven Beale	Aaron Sidwell	24/06/2016
Lauren Branning	Jacqueline Jossa	24/06/2016
Kush Kazemi	Davood Ghadami	12/07/2016
Donna Yates	Lisa Hammond	12/07/2016
Linda Carter	Kellie Bright	08/09/2016
Ronnie Mitchell	Samantha Womack	30/09/2016
Mike Rendon	Bailey Patrick	17/10/2016
Martin Fowler	James Bye	01/11/2016
Stacey Fowler	Lacey Turner	01/11/2016
Carmel Kazemi	Bonnie Langford	01/11/2016
Kush Kazemi	Davood Ghadami	01/11/2016
Honey Mitchell	Emma Barton	01/11/2016
Roxy Mitchell	Rita Simons	01/11/2016
Kyle Slater	Riley Carter Millington	14/11/2016
Bex Fowler	Jasmine Armfield	14/11/2016
Shirley Carter	Linda Henry	14/11/2016
Tina Carter	Luisa Bradshaw-White	14/11/2016
Sylvie Carter	Linda Marlowe	14/11/2016

I keep this because the way I do the character count list is from an Excel spreadsheet, so I copy every cast list into a massive table and another table calculates the numbers which I then sort by regular or guest, number and alphabetically by last name, and I just copy that into the page each time... but I have to check the first table during every episode to make sure nobody was missing from the episode or in the episode but not credited online. I can also do a list of times characters weren't credited online but appeared in the episode, though I think most of those get updated online later. I noticed Tiffany and Morgan were credited online after that episode aired, but not before it. anemoneprojectors 20:43, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

And here's a table of times someone wasn't credited online (at first) but appeared in the epsiode. Mostly to keep it a secret - and sometimes they weren't credited on screen either but I have notes for that in the 2016 list already (e.g Aaron Sidwell, Jamie Borthwick, Pam St. Clement).

Character	Actor	Date
Jack Branning	Scott Maslen	01/01/2016 part 1
Claudette Hubbard	Ellen Thomas	01/01/2016 part 2
Lucas Johnson	Don Gilet	01/01/2016 part 2
Jack Branning	Scott Maslen	01/01/2016 part 2
Vincent Hubbard	Richard Blackwood	01/01/2016 part 2
Dean Wicks	Matt Di Angelo	04/01/2016
Claudette Hubbard	Ellen Thomas	04/01/2016
Vincent Hubbard	Richard Blackwood	04/01/2016
Belinda Peacock	Carli Norris	11/01/2016
Peggy Mitchell	Barbara Windsor	15/01/2016
Ryan Malloy	Neil McDermott	22/01/2016
Ryan Malloy	Neil McDermott	25/01/2016
Ryan Malloy	Neil McDermott	26/01/2016
Ryan Malloy	Neil McDermott	28/01/16 part 1
Ryan Malloy	Neil McDermott	11/02/2016
Martin Fowler	James Bye	23/02/2016
Claudette Hubbard	Ellen Thomas	10/03/16 part 2
Vincent Hubbard	Richard Blackwood	10/03/16 part 2
Kim Fox-Hubbard	Tameka Empson	10/03/16 part 2
Patrick Trueman	Rudolph Walker	10/03/16 part 2
Libby Fox	Belinda Owusu	10/03/16 part 2
Denise Fox	Diane Parish	10/03/16 part 2
Lucas Johnson	Don Gilet	10/03/16 part 2
JJ Johnson	Zayden Kareem	10/03/16 part 2
Linford Short	Leon Lopez	10/03/16 part 2
Margaret Midhurst	Jan Harvey	14/03/2016
Gavin Sullivan	Paul Nicholas	14/03/2016
Claudette Hubbard	Ellen Thomas	15/03/2016
Vincent Hubbard	Richard Blackwood	15/03/2016
JJ Johnson	Zayden Kareem	15/03/2016
Patrick Trueman	Rudolph Walker	15/03/2016
Kim Fox-Hubbard	Tameka Empson	15/03/2016
Denise Fox	Diane Parish	15/03/2016
Vincent Hubbard	Richard Blackwood	17/03/16 part 1
Claudette Hubbard	Ellen Thomas	17/03/16 part 1
Kim Fox-Hubbard	Tameka Empson	17/03/16 part 1
Patrick Trueman	Rudolph Walker	17/03/16 part 1
Linford Short	Leon Lopez	17/03/16 part 1
Patrick Trueman	Rudolph Walker	17/03/16 part 2
Claudette Hubbard	Ellen Thomas	17/03/16 part 2
Vincent Hubbard	Richard Blackwood	17/03/16 part 2
Kim Fox-Hubbard	Tameka Empson	17/03/16 part 2
Denise Fox	Diane Parish	21/03/2016
Denise Fox	Diane Parish	24/03/2016
Denise Fox	Diane Parish	25/03/2016
Kim Fox-Hubbard	Tameka Empson	25/03/2016
JJ Johnson	Zayden Kareem	25/03/2016
Lorna Cartwright	Janet Dibley	04/04/2016
Ronnie Mitchell	Samantha Womack	22/04/2016
Jack Branning	Scott Maslen	22/04/2016
Linzi Bragg	Amy-Leigh Hickman	25/04/2016
Thelma Bragg	Lorraine Stanley	25/04/2016
Linzi Bragg	Amy-Leigh Hickman	26/04/2016
Thelma Bragg	Lorraine Stanley	26/04/2016
DC Vanessa Jenkins	Caroline Faber	26/04/2016
DC Sally Booth	Sanchia McCormack	26/04/2016
Clerk of the Court	Suzette Llewellyn	27/04/2016
Judge Lionel Hale	Patrick Pearson	27/04/2016
Ritchie Scott	Sian Webber	27/04/2016
Rodney Bragg	Rhys Yates	27/04/2016
Thelma Bragg	Lorraine Stanley	27/04/2016
Linzi Bragg	Amy-Leigh Hickman	27/04/2016
DC Sally Booth	Sanchia McCormack	27/04/2016
Claudette Hubbard	Ellen Thomas	28/04/2016
Claudette Hubbard	Ellen Thomas	05/05/2016
Grant Mitchell	Ross Kemp	13/05/2016
Pat Butcher	Pam St. Clement	17/05/2016
Lauren Branning	Jacqueline Jossa	27/05/2016
Gavin Sullivan	Paul Nicholas	27/05/2016
Steven Beale	Aaron Sidwell	06/06/2016
Steven Beale	Aaron Sidwell	07/06/2016
Max Branning	Jake Wood	09/06/2016
Steven Beale	Aaron Sidwell	09/06/2016
Steven Beale	Aaron Sidwell	10/06/2016
Grant Mitchell	Ross Kemp	04/07/2016
Jay Brown	Jamie Borthwick	05/07/2016
Kathy Sullivan	Gillian Taylforth	11/07/2016
Andrew 'Buster' Briggs	Karl Howman	11/07/2016
Sharon Mitchell	Letitia Dean	11/07/2016
Kathy Sullivan	Gillian Taylforth	12/07/2016
Andrew 'Buster' Briggs	Karl Howman	12/07/2016
Sharon Mitchell	Letitia Dean	15/07/2016
Andrew 'Buster' Briggs	Karl Howman	15/07/2016
Kathy Sullivan	Gillian Taylforth	15/07/2016
Ben Mitchell	Harry Reid	19/07/2016
Ben Mitchell	Harry Reid	21/07/2016
Ben Mitchell	Harry Reid	22/07/2016
Ben Mitchell	Harry Reid	25/07/2016
Ben Mitchell	Harry Reid	26/07/2016
Ben Mitchell	Harry Reid	26/07/2016
Ben Mitchell	Harry Reid	28/07/2016
Abi Branning	Lorna Fitzgerald	29/07/2016
Courtney Mitchell	Alice Nokes	04/08/2016
Courtney Mitchell	Alice Nokes	05/08/2016
Courtney Mitchell	Alice Nokes	08/08/2016
Mark Fowler	Ned Porteous	11/08/2016
Courtney Mitchell	Alice Nokes	11/08/2016
Mark Fowler	Ned Porteous	12/08/2016
Mark Fowler	Ned Porteous	18/08/2016
Mark Fowler	Ned Porteous	22/08/2016
Mark Fowler	Ned Porteous	23/08/2016
Ryan Malloy	Neil McDermott	20/09/2016
Claudette Hubbard	Ellen Thomas	29/09/2016
Patrick Trueman	Rudolph Walker	30/09/2016
Jay Brown	Jamie Borthwick	13/10/2016
Jay Brown	Jamie Borthwick	14/10/2016
Tiffany Butcher	Maisie Smith	03/11/2016
Morgan Butcher	Devon Higgs	03/11/2016

anemoneprojectors 20:51, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Wow you keep detailed notes. It's worrying when you can't trust both the on screen and website credits. I thinks it's unlikely the BBC would go back and make that many changes. Maybe the EE team would be better using the script to find the credits. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:02, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Normally if someone isn't credited online but appears, it's because of either a surprise return or we're meant to think that they've departed, or it's to hide a storyline i.e. who gets killed (when spoilers said the Mitchells are told Ben is dead, Ben wasn't credited, for example). But the other way around it could be because scenes got cut after being filmed, so checking the script wouldn't make much difference. Perhaps we could check the online credits for the above to see which have been changed... we can just add a column to each table. It wouldn't be necessary for this project, so it's up to you. anemoneprojectors 21:31, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

By the way they're not detailed notes, just copied and pasted... and then I check against the episode and add "not in it" if they weren't in it or add their name if they were, to make the episode count accurate. anemoneprojectors 21:32, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

21 November 2016

@Kelvin 101: Another one, in last night's episode I can see no sign of Kim or Vincent, yet they were credited on screen. I've double checked all the market, Queen Vic and café scenes and can't see them at all. Any chance you could double check as well? Thanks anemoneprojectors 09:38, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Will do thanks, I will check Monday 21 November and come back to you Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 23:21, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Yeah both Kim and Vincent did not appear. maybe we should re-name this section incorrect credits. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:48, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Thanks for checking for me, I thought I was right but it's always good to have a 2nd pair of eyes to make sure! I have renamed the section as well! anemoneprojectors 20:51, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: The BBC have fixed 21 November 2016 credit page http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08442m7/credits

Their response was:

"We raised the fault with relevant team who after investigation fixed the fault with credits of 21 November of ‘EastEnders’ on the programme page.

However, the episode itself will not be corrected as the content would have to be revoked, edited and re-uploaded/transcoded at significant expense. It will remain incorrect on the video file until the end of its availability window."

I have also note the date in bold in the relevant section of this thread to make it easier to find specific dates. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 17:22, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

2 and 5 December 2016

@Kelvin 101: Another one where I couldn't spot some characters that were credited on screen! In 2 December I didn't see Donna or Kush (I also didn't see Ben or Jay but then on checking I found them in background scenes, so maybe Donna and Kush did appear), and on 5 December I didn't see Bex. I know it's annoying having to rewatch scenes but could you check for me in case they're there and I can't find them? anemoneprojectors 09:44, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Will do, thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

Thanks. What's weird is that Donna was credited online in the 6 December ep but didn't appear and her name WASN'T in the on-screen credits. But previous episodes have had the wrong on-screen credits. Perhaps they've noticed that they need to cut names from the on-screen credits if they were cut from the episode! anemoneprojectors 09:26, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

I found Bex on the 5th at 14 minutes so no need to look for her! Thanks. anemoneprojectors 09:40, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

And in 2 December, Donna and Kush are hiding! But they are there, in the very first scene, an overview of the market! So no need to look for either of these. Thanks!!! anemoneprojectors 09:44, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

9 December 2016

@Kelvin 101: I've looked and looked for Jack in this episode but can't see him, can you? anemoneprojectors 09:56, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Nope I can't see him either, not sure what is going on with all these errors. Imagine if someone did an audit for all the episode credits for the past 30 years. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:02, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Thanks, I'll remove him. I had others I didn't see at first in that and the next episode, but they were there but with no lines - Donna in the market was one, and Amy, but she was in the scene where Roxy looks on as Ronnie walks past the café with Amy... but without Jack. anemoneprojectors 20:13, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:The BBC have fixing the credits for 9 December 2016 and have made changes so hopeful the credits will alway be accurate.

"I understand you contacted us to let us know that the credits for the 'EastEnders' episode broadcast on 9th December 2016 incorrectly credited the character Jack Branning, who did not appear in this episode.

We passed this on to our BBC iPlayer Curation Team, and they have now removed Jack Branning from the list of characters credited for this episode of 'EastEnders':

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08502l3/credits

There had been an on-going problem wherein the team supplying credits to the programme page for BBC iPlayer were not working to final edits, and so may have been crediting characters or actors who were scheduled in advance to appear in an episode but who may have been edited out of the programme before broadcast. There is now a new system in place to avoid this inconsistency."

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:50, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I'm impressed! They changed the whole system just for you ;-) Well, maybe not but we can assume anyway! But I thought that was probably the reason. anemoneprojectors 20:09, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

25 December 2016

Dermot Haynes and Marcus Greaves-Smith seem to missing from the website credits but appear on the onscreen credits.

• http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b086zrzc/credits

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:46, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: That's not incorrect credits, because they were credited on screen and were in the episode. They're not listed because we weren't supposed to know that Phil would be back in hospital, also DC Fred Thingy, Heather Trott from the previous episode and Sonia Fowler, as they wanted to surprise us with all these things. They might list them in the credits when they come back to work after the Xmas break. This is basically about people credited on screen but who didn't appear in the episode, regardless of what the website says. anemoneprojectors 17:01, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

12 January 2017

@Kelvin 101: This episode included one scene in the Vic with many characters in the background, but I couldn't see Billy, Ben or Whitney. I don't think it's necessarily incorrect credits as they were probably on the set at the time but the camera just never spotted them - do you think they should be removed or left in? anemoneprojectors 10:52, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I know that Ben was in the background of a scene in the Vic, walking past. [14] Soaper1234 (talk) 11:04, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

@Soaper1234: That was a good spot! Thank you. I did wonder if that was Whitney but didn't really see her face - trying to find her in the previous episode to see what she was wearing! But now I can't find where Whitney was. anemoneprojectors 11:22, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: I had a quick look

• Whitney at 1.02 clearing up glasses very briefly and again at 1.24 in the background at the bar, you can see her face.
• Billy at 1.26 in dark jump, you can see him when Honey goes back to talk to him and carmel after exiting the toilets, although you don't see their faces but from their clothes you can id them. See previous episode 10 January at 19.07 for where billy is standing with a dark jumper and glass in the same position.
• Ben at 1.38 carrying pizza boxes in background. Like soaper previously mentioned.

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 16:52, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234: Thanks. That shot of Whitney is also in Soaper's screenshot but I wasn't sure it was actually her because we only seen her side on which is why I tried to establish what she was wearing in the previous episode and weirdly the more I look the less it looks like her! And she just seems to be hanging around the bar with some random extras and not doing any work. I knew Billy was standing next to Carmel in the previous episode so well done for that spot as well. anemoneprojectors 11:05, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Mick Carter 27 April 2017

@Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234: Mick's voice was heard on the phone to Shirley but Dyer was uncredited. When Linda and Sharon have been heard on the phone they have been credited. Listening to what Mick was saying, I'm wondering if it was put together from previously recorded Mick scenes and therefore is essentially archive footage and shouldn't be counted. I'm sure I heard him say those things before. What are everyone's thoughts? anemoneprojectors 10:29, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I'm pretty sure this will have been new footage and I imagine if Dyer has recently returned to filming, he will have recorded it recently. I think he should receive a credit for this with an uncredited note. Soaper1234 (talk) 11:17, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Soaper1234, I already added it in as an uncredited voice appearance pending comments here, and you're right, he did return to filming before this episode went out so he may have filled in the gaps of the conversation. It did sound a bit awkward like the words didn't all quite fit, so if that was the case it would make sense! anemoneprojectors 11:22, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

I would agree credited with an uncredited note, this has happened previously User talk:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (2017)#Voice only appearances thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 18:44, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

I was thinking about Sharon and Linda, because they were credited, but I had forgotten that Harry Beckett was uncredited and it was definitely the actor's voice. anemoneprojectors 09:05, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

Linda Carter 8 May 2017 and 23 May 2017 (Voice only)

Linda calls Johnny so Whitney and Jonny can wish Ollie Happy Birthday and talk about the new kitchen (8 May 2017).

Mick argues with Linda about selling the pubs land without his knowledge (23 May 2017). Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:53, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Mick 9 May 2017 (Voice only)

Mick calls and Woody answers the phone but Johnny takes it from him and tell Mick that Woody is just a temp. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:53, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Not disputing the above two, this is for discussing not listing. I don't need a list of every uncredited appearance, in general it was about characters that were credited and I couldn't spot them in the episode, asking for help. So you don't need to keep listing things if there's nothing to discuss. If you're saying I've missed them from the cast list, you need to say that I've missed them from the cast list. Thanks. — anemoneprojectors 17:34, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

Actually I don't have this one listed. Sadly 9 May has long gone from iPlayer so I can't check for myself. I'm still not convinced that every phone call is made from new recordings. I don't like it though - voices were never heard on the phone until Sean O'Connor came along, and it's not realistic because they wouldn't be heard in real life. — anemoneprojectors 17:38, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

20 July 2017

Credits included Honey, Karen, Janet and Will, but I didn't spot them. Did they appear? — anemoneprojectors 08:04, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234: Please help? — anemoneprojectors 08:30, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Karen appears at 10:43 in the back of the scene and Honey, Will and Janet appear at 11:04 when Billy introduces the Reliant Robin to teens. Soaper1234 - talk 11:04, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Omg what was the point of Karen being there? No wonder I didn't see her. The other scene was very brief too. But thanks for double checking :-) — anemoneprojectors 12:06, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

No problem :) - it was very blink and you'll miss it. Soaper1234 - talk 12:15, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

26 September 2017

@Soaper1234 and Kelvin 101: This episode had 4 uncredited voice appearances - Chatham, Riley, Mick and Linda - which I will add. But Kathy was credited and I failed to spot her. Was it another hidden away in the background scene? — anemoneprojectors 08:23, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi just checked Kathy is seen in the background at 07.44 when Martin and Michelle are talking about Stacey's appointment, Kathy is bringing food to a customer's table. Thank goodness for the video scrubber.

• https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b096nbpn/eastenders-26092017

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:24, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

That's crazy, but thanks! I tried to double check myself but honestly didn't see her. — anemoneprojectors 09:54, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

16 February 2018

@Soaper1234 and Kelvin 101: At 27m 22s Dot makes a toast to Abi in the Vic, and several characters are seen in this small scene, some who didn't appear elsewhere in the episode. I spotted Honey, Billy, Ted and Joyce, as well as Carmel and Michelle, but I didn't see Karen, Keegan or Shakil. There is someone sitting to the right of the screen whose face cannot be seen, this could be Keegan, so I would assume that Karen and Shakil were also sitting there, though technically weren't seen on screen. Question 1 - did they actually appear in the episode anywhere? Question 2 - if not should they be left in? As everyone toasted "To Abi", it could still count as a voice-only appearance. iPlayer link — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 18:22, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Just had a quick look at 15.33 Karen, Keegan and Shakil are seen walking into Abi Funeral through the church doors. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:32, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, good spot! It was as blink-and-you'll-miss-it as the pub scene with Honey, Billy, Ted and Joyce! — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 22:35, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

14 August 2018

Any sign of Keegan in that episode? — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 08:54, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Too late now I think, but I kept him in. — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 16:51, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

30 October 2018

@Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234:

I'm looking for Mo in this episode https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0bqmkts/eastenders-30102018 but I didn't see her... she's credited though. — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 10:43, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: Mo appears at 09:28 in the E20 bar getting drinks, she blends too well into the background. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 11:01, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: thanks, I forgot Jean and Kat left her in E20 so I didn't think to look for her in there! — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 11:09, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

Drama vs BBC1

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi I usually checked the year list against Drama credits and if it doesn't match I pulled out the original BBC1 recording and cross reference them. There have been occasions when they don't match because the episode has been cut from the omnibus edition or the previous episode credits. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:31, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Thanks, I always check the Drama credits but I'm weeks behind so I appreciate you doing this, I know they are sometimes wrong as I have seen a couple of times Drama have got the credits from elsewhere (most likely the omnibus or the previous episode) though I didn't think about the fact that they may have only had the omnibus and then cut it into two. So that means there have been mistakes on Genome (for the episode that it said was written by Tony McHale that you changed), were the directors you changed also listed on Genome originally? For one of them, it was the only episode we had for them, meaning they may not have directed EastEnders at all. Also, may I ask how you got the original BBC1 recordings? — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 19:43, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Hi yeah a have some of the older episodes not as great quality VHS but there are original broadcasts.

If we take your example 23 April 1987

• Genome credits Tony McHale Link

• First 10 Years credits Bev Doyle

• IDMB credits Bev Doyle

• Original broadcast and Drama credit Bev Doyle

so BBC Genome can be wrong sometimes but also can the first 10 years the only real source is the original broadcast. I don't believe the directors were listed in the Radio Times in the early days. I was fascinated to learn reading your note that "Julia Honour" isn't a real person.

Speaking of which Julia Honour is listed as the writer of 21 August 2007 on Genome, IMDB and EE Website but I found a script picture showing it to be Chris Reason.

• https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/eastenders/images/8/8c/EastEnders_Script_Episode_3421.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20181214073244

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:47, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: That's cool, I didn't know you had tapes from the originals! Yes I was surprised to see that Julia Honour isn't a real person, it seems that Reason may have written one of those bad scripts, but I think we should leave it as Honour. Do you have the original broadcast for 30 December 1986? I changed the writer from the Drama broadcast as we had Gilly Fraser/Charlie Humphreys but Drama only credited Fraser, but earlier you had added Charlie Humphreys to it, which I only just realised. Also, for 30 October 1986, I added Charlie Humphreys as Drama credited two writers but after I watched it, I realised the Drama credits were totally wrong and were probably onmibus credits so I removed Humphreys again. — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 21:15, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Yeah I have not had the videos long. 30 December 1986 is a bit tricky it appears to be a the original 30 minute episode but on the credits doesn't look right, it looks like the credits have been edited in from an Omnibus edition to give the illusion of the full episode.

More research is needed, I will try and compare this with Drama's.

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 22:39, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I have checked 30 October 1986 with the 2 November 1986 Omnibus and the credits are identical. But we do have other sources to go on, 30 December 1986 looks right. I am confident these are right. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:12, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Thanks very much for checking this :-) — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 22:15, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:I am a bit confused about 18 + 20 August 1987 as BBC Genome says

Michael Robartes wrote 18 August and Tony McHale wrote 20 August

• https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/1987-08-18#at-19.30

• https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/1987-08-20#at-19.30

but the first 10 years Tony McHale wrote 18 August and
Michael Robartes wrote 20 August (football match with Julia's theme)
Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 13:11, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, I forgot I had the Omnibus, it would appear that Drama is correct and Genome has the 20 August 1987 the wrong way round 20 being Julia's theme and not the 18.

I will correct the 1987 episode listings. It weird that BBC Genome could be so wrong even within the episode summary.

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 13:26, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: OK thanks. I was going to say if you didn't have the original episodes I know someone who has, but he might have the omnibus rather than the episodes, in fact he could be the person who gave it to you since he edits with you on Fandom! — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 14:14, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

7 October 2019

@Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234: Not sure if Soaper is still around... but wondered if you can help find Bobby Beale in this episode, he was credited but I couldn't find him. https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0009679/eastenders-07102019 Thanks! — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 17:54, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:I have a look through a few times the only possible is at 3.22 there is a person in the background sitting in the bench not sure if its Bobby? Do you type up the cast list from the Credits? Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:46, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I just checked that scene and it could be Bobby though I guess I would need to look more closely at how the hair sits on Bobby's neck to be able to know for sure. But maybe I should assume it's him and count him in the episode. I check the credits first, list the characters, and then tick them off when they appear. Any I'm missing I then check for. If a character doesn't appear then I remove them from the count, although I should probably remove the count to be fair. Then these things won't matter. Thanks for looking. — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 18:28, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Still around! But not as active with online edits - between life and offline creations, I haven't got lots of time! I've had a look and I can't spot Bobby, nor would I say the boy on the bench is him. Soaper1234 - talk 12:50, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

@Soaper1234: Thanks Soaper. — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 18:15, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

6 February 2020

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: Can anyone see DI Steve Thompson on 6 February 2020?

• https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000f2k2/eastenders-06022020

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 17:57, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I'm just about to watch the episode, so I'll let you know. Soaper1234 - talk 18:04, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Soaper1234, as I'm well behind I don't want to look ahead. — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 18:10, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I've just watched the episode and he isn't in it. Soaper1234 - talk 21:57, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Soaper1234 he must have been miss credited. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 22:39, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234:I just had a quick flick through it turn out DI Steve Thompson was there @3.54 but he wasn't there for long. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:28, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

19 May 2020

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: Hi hope you are both well, Can anyone see DI Steve Thompson on 19 May 2020. It might be I missed him but this did happen with the credits last time 6 February 2020. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 16:21, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I'm about to watch it, so I'll have a look. Soaper1234 - talk 16:23, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: He was featured in the footage Jack showed Keegan and Tiffany towards the end of the episode. Soaper1234 - talk 17:25, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

@Soaper1234 and Kelvin 101: I'm too far behind! I've stopped worrying about missing characters as much because I'm not doing an official cast count anymore, however, for minor characters it's still important to check for the "others" in the character lists. — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 17:42, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks @Soaper1234: that makes a lot more sense. Thanks for checking. @AnemoneProjectors: Yeah I know what you mean with character count it's very time consuming. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:09, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I still have a cast count, it's not that time consuming as I take down the cast list for every episode before I watch it but Wikipedia says no cast counts so I don't keep it for Wikipedia, and if I don't see a character I just assume I missed them and they were there. — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 19:13, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

5 May 2020

@Soaper1234 and Kelvin 101: I know I said I wasn't worried about missing characters anymore as there is no character count but this one is weird because I didn't see Mick, Tina, Whitney, Sonia or Ollie in this episode and they were all credited. I'm thinking perhaps a scene was cut... or am I being totally blind? And yes I am that far behind but I'm desperately trying to catch up now :-) — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 11:55, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: I have been through a few times, no sign of any of the characters you listed. You problerly right it's likely a cut scene. Good spot. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

15 June 2008 - credits

I wanted to check the director of this episode, as, according to the 2008 list, Paul Annett directed 2.5 hours of content while Michael Owen Morris only directed 1.5 hours - they're normally done in blocks of 4 episodes (2 hours) so it looks like Morris should be the director, not Annett. Sadly the official website didn't give directors back then. It does say that that Carey Andrews was the writer, the official site has Carey Andrews as writing many episodes in that period so is definitely wrong. So just want a check on the director. I'm working on June 2008 at the moment. anemoneprojectors 21:56, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi well spotted you are right the Monday 16th June episode must have been moved to Sunday 15th June due to the football. I think because in Genome its said on Wednesday 11 June This week's episodes directed by Paul Annett. I must have thought Sunday was included in that week. http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/search/0/20?adv=1&mf=6&mt=6&order=asc&q=EastEnders&svc=9371541&tf=17%3A00&yf=2008&yt=2008#search

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 22:24, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

No it was a Monday episode moved to Sunday, so was from that week. I'll change it as I'm in the page now. Thanks :-) anemoneprojectors 22:28, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

By the way it's all these checks I'm doing that are finding these little things! So there may be more small things to check later on as I go through the pages. anemoneprojectors 22:31, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Just a note on Sunday episodes, if there is one it usually belongs with the week after rather than the week before, but I'm sussing everything out - so don't worry! anemoneprojectors 22:35, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

References for credits

Hi @Kelvin 101: in some of the earlier lists, opening paragraphs for the list of episodes sections need to say where credits came from - which I think is Genome and the book you got with the list at the back. If so, can you confirm that the book is EastEnders: The First 10 Years: A Celebration by Colin Brake, published 1994 by BBC Books (ISBN 978-0-563-37057-4)? If so I will add it to the lists up to, was it 1994? Are there any other sources you used to get credits, other than Genome, the official website or IMDb? Thanks. anemoneprojectors 17:05, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi @AnemoneProjectors: sorry for late reply for earlier years 1985-1994 the first 10 years and 1985-2009 Genome but mainly Genome and 2008 onwards the EE site. But they aren't without conflicting/missing information. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:01, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll make sure these are all included in my checks. I'm aware of the conflicts, which is why I think we should include more than one reference if we can. Also, I resolved one of the conflicts by finding the full episode online and checking the credits, so I'll see if I can find any others from your list of missing info. anemoneprojectors 08:15, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

Comic Relief/ Children in Need

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: We usually note that there is no EastEnders episode due to Comic Relief or Children in Need. Do you think its worth noting also if the feature in the show. I know we have separate listings for Whitney Story and The Ghosts of Ian Beale but is it worth noting if the cast did a dance melody, something like this.

There was no episode on 18 November due to the live Children in Need 2016 telethon. However the cast did perform dance homages to 80s movie hits.<ref>{{cite web|title=EastEnders: Whitney and Lee's Dirty Dancing stuns Children in Need viewers|url=http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2016-11-19/eastenders-whitney-and-lees-dirty-dancing-stuns-children-in-need-viewers|publisher=[[Radio Times]]|accessdate=21 November 2016}}</ref>

Not sure if this is over kill or if it would be better noted somewhere elsewhere. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 00:41, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

I don't think we should include it, as it's nothing really to do with EastEnders storylines or episodes, and they're not in character. It should only really be listed in the page about the telethon itself. anemoneprojectors 07:02, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101 and AnemoneProjectors: I'm in argeement with AP here too, it isn't relevant to the page so has no real reason for being included. Soaper1234 (talk) 16:23, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Genome citations needed for schedule changes

I've done 1985 and 1986, but citations are needed for 1987-1992, for whoever wants to do it! Thanks :-) anemoneprojectors 12:48, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Genome citations for 1987-1992 are now done thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 23:38, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Excellent, thank you so much! anemoneprojectors 09:24, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

Cast checking

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi, hope you're well. I'm trying to make my way through the casts as quick as I can (work has been quite pressing as of late). I am aware that where we place people within the cast section varies. For example, on the 2008 page I would have included Madeline Duggan in the recurring cast, but you put her in the regular cast. If possible, would you be able to look at the placings after I've done it, in case you feel they deserve a different position or alternatively, if you had a 'set rule' for cast members, I could follow that instead? Thanks, Soaper1234 (talk) 22:23, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Did I do the cast list for 2008? Back in 2008, both Lauren and Abi were listed on Wikipedia as regular characters, despite the age of the actresses. If I put Lauren as a regular character, it would have been because she's one now and I wouldn't have considered her age at the time. But Wikipedia listed her as a regular. It wasn't my decision, probably. I could check but I probably won't notice anything I think is wrong, for the reason I just gave about not considering how things would have been back then. The Wikipedia article for each character will say either regular or recurring. If it says regular, and you think there's a chance it may have changed at some point from recurring, perhaps it's worth mentioning. The only example I can think of where I differ to the article is in the 2016 page for Elaine Peacock, I have her as a regular as I believe she was given a three month contract, making her a regular for three months, yet Wikipedia never changed her from recurring. So that may need discussion - but on the talk page for the character list, not on this project. anemoneprojectors 00:37, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for that, so would you say that perhaps the general rule would be that actors under the age of 16 consist of a recurring status, and 16 and over recieve regular billing? Soaper1234 (talk) 08:24, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

The age thing is certainly part of it, as actors under 16 can't be regulars. So I'm not sure why we listed Abi as a regular. She certainly seemed like a regular. Other criteria seem to be if a character as a profile page on the BBC website they're usually a regular, and usually cast cards are only produced for regulars (or ongoing child characters). Though I do know that Ross Kemp got a new cast card for 2016. Do you think I should change Elaine to recurring? anemoneprojectors 12:30, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: It seems to be that under 16 actors might be 'semi-regular' so will have cast cards and a BBC website profile, but are under 16 so cannot be regulars. I might go with placing child actors (Ben, Abi, Lauren, Jay to name a few) as recurring/guest characters until the actors have turned sixteen. For Ross Kemp, I imagine he had a cast card because his return has supposedly 'huge' and for Elaine - I would go with regular for her three-month stint. Soaper1234 (talk) 19:13, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

@Soaper1234: I'm in agreement with all that. And apparently pings don't work if you add them after you've already saved, I only found this through my watchlist! anemoneprojectors 13:15, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

Cast lists: "also credited as"

@Soaper1234: Great work on the cast lists. I have a quick question - I noticed on the 1995 list and others that it says "In 1995, the character was also credited as Ruth Aitken", for example. Ruth married Mark in 1995, but do you think she should be listed as Ruth Aitken, also credited as Ruth Fowler (and the same for other characters)?. Beacuse she starts off as Aitken and becomes Fowler... same as in 2016 with Stacey, she starts as a Branning and becomes a Fowler (but in 2017 I'll list her as Stacey Fowler). I'd do that even if the article was titled Stacey Fowler. Does this make sense?! anemoneprojectors 13:02, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Thanks. I have listed her as also credited as Ruth Aitken because for the majority of the year, she was credited as Ruth Fowler. So for Stacey in 2016, it would be Stacey Fowler (also credited as Branning) because she became Stacey Fowler in late May - making it about seven months as Fowler and five as Branning, so is Fowler because she was credited as this for longer. Hope this makes sense? Soaper1234 (talk) 19:23, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

It makes sense but I'm listing Stacey as Branning, also credited as Fowler, because that's how she started the year. I don't suppose it matters too much anyway. anemoneprojectors 22:52, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Billie Jackson

@Soaper1234: Hi, I just decided to read your cast description for 1993, which looks good. I just wanted to point out that the character Billie Jackson was known as Billy Jackson until his 2010 reintroduction, so in the cast lists and descriptions for 1993–97 and 2004, we should call him Billy, not Billie. I've changed it in 1993. But because Billy Mitchell was also around in 2004, we will need to be careful not to confuse the two in that year, if there is any opportunity to do so. This happened in 2016 with Linda Carter and Linda Clarke and though they crossed paths, I fortunately didn't need to write about it and avoided confusion! anemoneprojectors 08:22, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Fantastic, thank you for making that clear. I'll keep that in mind when adding cast lists. Hopefully they won't be too much distrubtion with this! Soaper1234 (talk) 16:36, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

World Cup specials

Sigh, it's that subject again! @Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234: I wondered what you guys thought about moving the three World Cup specials out of the supplemental section and into the main list, as they are similar to the two Comic Relief specials, were broadcast on BBC One, one was part of another programme like the Comic Relief ones, and as far as I can tell, they were part of the ongoing story (correct me if I'm wrong about that). If we decide to do this, we would number them 1638A, 1638B and 1638C. But if they do stand alone, and aren't part of the ongoing story, we can leave them as they are. Your thoughts? anemoneprojectors 15:59, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Well since they are not spin-offs but are a direct continuation of the storyline, I don't see any problem with it. I really wish I could see watch these episodes. I did try searching through an the 1998 final online to see it was there but it must have been edited out. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

Thanks Kelvin 101, I've gone ahead and done it. The episode numbers need updating. Are you looking for something to do or shall I do it? :-) anemoneprojectors 16:32, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Its ok I can do it. Funny I just found a picture of EastEnders at the 1998 World Cup.

http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-eastenders-world-cup-1-105983343.html

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 16:40, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Kelvin 101: I'm in agreement that they should be labelled 1638A, 1638B and 1638C as that is how Comic Relief episodes are labelled. Soaper1234 (talk) 16:44, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Kelvin 101 and thanks Soaper1234! anemoneprojectors 16:47, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

EastEnders Bubbles

I just noticed that "Dot's Story" and "Perfectly Frank" are part of a series officially known as "EastEnders Bubbles" - Dot's Story - Perfectly Frank. However, I Googled the phrase and can't see any evidence that any of the other spin-offs are officially called "EastEnders Bubbles", so I don't know what to do with this information. Any thoughts? anemoneprojectors 17:30, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Sorry believe or not I have not seen this post till today, when I was actually searching the same thing. I have a copy of the getty pages below and the other spin-off are there as well.

• EASTENDERS - RICKY AND BIANCA:1 (mentioned in synopsis)
• EASTENDERS BUBBLES - DOT'S STORY
• EASTENDERS BUBBLES - PERFECTLY FRANK

I actually have a recording of "Dot's Story" but its not mentioned on the title card. [15]

There is a short mention to it on the Walford Gazzette site [16]

"Which brings me to Dot's Story, an EastEnders "soap bubble" that was broadcast on January 2, 2003 on BBC-1 in a time slot normally reserved for a regular EastEnders episode.

BBC America, in a typical display of ungenerous programming policy, chose not to show this one here in the U.S., as they didn't with Ricky and Bianca or Nick and Ashley [editor's note: as in Cotton; Ashley is Nick's son]. It is true that these "soap bubbles" are, somehow, considered a separate entity to the show itself because they are not shot with EE's regular crew. Whatever the reason, BBCA won't show these and those of you who subscribe to this channel should feel gypped."

It may not be a series name but may mean it's just not cannon.

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 23:43, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: That's ok, I posted a lot of things at the same time. I hope you don't mind that I've refactored your comment to make it easier to read :-)

I already linked to the Getty pages for the Frank and Dot ones (why do you screenshot them? the text is easier to find on a webpage than an image and it's quicker to post a url than take a screenshot, save it, upload it to flickr and then post a url for that...?!). I know they've often been called "soap bubbles" (as Ricky & Bianca is there) (I'm sure I've seen the word used on Wikipedia but can't find it anymore, probably thought it wasn't encyclopaedic) but I'm not looking for that, I'm looking specifically for "EastEnders Bubbles", which is referenced in only the three places I linked above (plus an interview with Charlie Brooks which doesn't count). So there are just the two that have been given that series name. I just wondered if we can use it, or if we should leave it. I think leave it, unless in the article List of EastEnders television spin-offs we changed the section "Spin-off episodes" to "EastEnders Bubbles", but then we'd have to explain what it means, plus there are only two so it would be false. So I think we should just leave it. Thanks :-) anemoneprojectors 00:09, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

The I posted screenshots was because the synopsis does not show up on Getty website unless viewing in Firefox with no page style. Your right leave it for now, unless we turn up something else. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 00:18, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Oh ok, didn't know that. Having checked, I can see that. If it comes up again, you could just quote the full text here, saying it's one of the ones that won't show up, save you some time. I don't think we'll turn up anything else... anemoneprojectors 00:31, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I found this link on Mo Harris article.

• https://www.theguardian.com/media/2004/jan/19/broadcasting.tvandradio
• https://h2g2.com/edited_entry/A1087193

This any good? Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 00:22, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: 2nd link is good for explaining what they are. Could be that they're all "EastEnders Bubbles" or that they're just bubbles. Either way, they're all bubbles. Maybe we could use it. I'll think about it tomorrow :) anemoneprojectors 00:35, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Logo

@Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234: What do you two think about using this logo in each infobox? It's free to use because it's considered that as a logo with "simple geometric shapes or text does, it not meet the threshold of originality needed for copyright protection, and is therefore in the public domain." Otherwise there would be no image in the infoboxes. I think the original plan may have been to use the screenshot logo from the time (because in some pages this logo is commented out), but I think that would be fair-use overuse as each image would be used in several articles. anemoneprojectors 18:37, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

See User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (1985) for how it would look. anemoneprojectors 18:39, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

I'm a fan AnemoneProjectors. I think it looks particulary good. Soaper1234 (talk) 20:46, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: It's a great idea as I was thinking of suggesting adding yearly cast pictures in the infoboxes but this logo would get around the whole copyright/fair use problem. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:11, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, glad you agree! :-) anemoneprojectors 21:16, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I noticed you put the logo on 1985-1987, do you mind if I start the rest. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

@Kelvin 101: I was doing it as part of my checks but go ahead. anemoneprojectors 19:15, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Note also that it makes no difference where it is in the template, it still displays correctly so your edit to the 1987 page wasn't really necessary as it caused no actual change to the page. If there was a necessary order, however, it would be below "bgcolour". Thanks :) anemoneprojectors 19:19, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Executive producers

I can't remember if I've already said this (but I can't spot a discussion) - are we able to source the first and last episode dates of each producer? For example, in 1989 it says "Mike Gibbon continued his role as executive producer until Michael Ferguson took over the role" but I'd like something like "Until [month], each episode was executively produced by Mike Gibbon, who departed after [number of years]. Michael Ferguson took over the role and his first credited episode was broadcast on [date]", plus the note in each episode. @Kelvin 101: Genome has this info? anemoneprojectors 19:04, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: I did try and make a table for each time an Executive producers changed on the on screen credits but some are a bit hard to find. Also Diederick Santer and Bryan Kirkwood both shared the Executive producer for two weeks in 2010. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:28, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

These are all of the Executive Producers:

Name	First episode	Last episode	Notes
Julia Smith	1 February 1985	26 May 1988
Mike Gibbon	31 May 1988	1989
Michael Ferguson	1989	1991	Last mentioned BBC Genome 21 June 1990
Leonard Lewis	1991	1994	First metnioned BBC Genome 11 January 1990
Helen Greaves	1991	1992
Barbara Emile	1994	1995
Corinne Hollingworth	1995	1996
Jane Harris	9 July 1996	11 November 1997	So confused ny IMDB
Matthew Robinson	11 July 1998	13 April 2000	So confused ny IMDB
John Yorke	14 February 2000	28 June 2002	Who is it from 1 July 2002 - 6 September 2002, So confused ny IMDB
Louise Berridge	9 September 2002	18 November 2004	Who is it from 22 November 2004 to 17 December 2004, So confused ny IMDB
Kathleen Hutchison	20 December 2004	1 April 2005
Kate Harwood	4 April 2005	4 January 2007
Diederick Santer	5 January 2007	18 June 2010 (Shares the executive producer credit with Kirkwood for two weeks).
Bryan Kirkwood	4 June 2010 (Shares the executive producer credit with Santer for two weeks).	13 July 2012
Lorraine Newman	16 July 2012	5 December 2013
Dominic Treadwell-Collins	9 December 2013	8 July 2016
Sean O'Connor	11 July 2016	Present

Thanks. I knew about Santer and Kirkwood (I was there when it happened). At least we know when Mike Gibbon started... but do we really have no more specific dates for the others? anemoneprojectors 21:33, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: This is from the Digital Spy forum from 2005. They claim that there was a different before the "Executive producer" title which was "Series producer"

• Michael Ferguson 1989-1991
• Leonard Lewis 1993-94
• Corrine Hollingworth 1995
• Matthew Robinson 1997-99
• John Yorke 1999-2002
• Louise Berridge 2002-2004
• Kathleen Hutchison 2004-05
• John Yorke (acting executive producer) 2005 (not credited)
• Kate Harwood 2005

This is a list of Executive Producers only, and does not include this list of producers/series producers who were in charge of the making of EastEnders during their time on the show:

• Julia Smith 1985-88 producer/series producer
• Tony Virgo 1986 producer
• Mike Gibbon 1988-89 producer
• Corrine Hollingworth Associate producer 1988-89
• producer 1990-91
• Pat Sandys 1991
• Helen Greaves 1992
• Leonard Lewis producer 1992
• series producer 1993
• Jane Fallon 1994
• Diana Kyle 1993-94
• Barbara Emile 1994-95
• Jane Harris 1995-96

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:32, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

Omg well whatever the title is, it's the top person in charge. Which is the list we have on the crew list article. anemoneprojectors 00:08, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

"Poor Old Reg" and other named early episodes

@Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234: Sorry, I know you're both probably really busy with Christmas and everything... but for me its a perfect time to do some checks. Earlier on there was a mention that episode 1 may have been named "Poor Old Reg" and at one point I saw a list where names had been given to several of the first episodes. I wondered if there's a way we could find any real evidence of this and if so, add the titles to the 1985 page. anemoneprojectors 19:41, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: Hi always happy to help, I also saw this on IMDB a few episodes look to be named but after looking at the first episode on BBC Genome http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/95e92fac0ca74da591e0950048b8cb45 I think this is called a short taster they called it, which were evental replaced with a synopsis.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/genome/entries/43719a58-c069-497e-9d8f-dbb621d49e5f

Although we can alway check with Getty or failing that the written archives.

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:38, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Thanks, I thought you might suggest a good option - the scripts would be the best place to find out. That thing about "episodes were teased with a single line of dialogue" is interesting though, it would mean it's not the title. I want to find that list I saw ages ago, but I doubt I will now! anemoneprojectors 21:52, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:

It doesn't mention anything about a title on Getty

• https://www.flickr.com/photos/30536759@N07/31737284901

Here is the IMDB list of named episode, although they maybe made up.

• http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088512/episodes?year=1985

No title appears on BBC programme page

• http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b053l8b7

It does appear on these links but I think they maybe getting confused. Although they directly say that the title is "Poor Reg"

• http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/31534299/what-else-was-happening-on-the-day-eastenders-started
• http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0276ht4
• https://store.bbc.com/eastenders?page=30

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 01:43, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: It might have been IMDb I saw but I'm not sure that it was. But I agree that we should ignore those titles and just concentrate on episode 1. BBC Programmes didn't use the title for "Pretty Baby....", we only got that from the script, so don't worry about that. It's the BBC Store page that I remember seeing and thinking "yes!", because it's the only one where they've put a title in "quotes". I'm pretty sure "Poor Old Reg..." is an official title. And two other sources. So shall we go for it? (P.S. HAPPY CHRISTMAS!) anemoneprojectors 09:18, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Yeah lets go for it, if we find out otherwise we can always change it later. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:50, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

I'm thinking that even if it didn't have that name at the time, it's since gained the name for sure. BBC Store confirms its officialness. anemoneprojectors 00:06, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Footnotes

@Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234: We currently use footnotes with the the "lower-greek" group type, giving us footnotes with these type of labels:

• α β γ δ ε ζ η θ ι κ

However, I read that this isn't supported by Internet Explorer 7 or below. I have no idea if people still use those browsers but just in case, should we change? We could have:

• lower-alpha (a b c d e f g h i j)
• upper-alpha (A B C D E F G H I J)
• lower-roman (i ii iii iv v vi vii viii ix x)
• upper-roman (I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX X)

anemoneprojectors 11:15, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: That's a shame that we can't use the lower-greek footnotes. I'd suggest using "lower-roman" as the new footnotes because the alpha seems quite plain and for appearance, lower seems better than upper. Soaper1234 (talk) 11:23, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

@Soaper1234: We can use it, though I haven't seen it in use anywhere else (I've seen upper-alpha in use), and you never know who is still using IE7. My preference is lower-alpha because it's the most similar to lower-greek, whereas lower-roman takes up a little bit more space...? anemoneprojectors 11:29, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I would think we should keep "lower-greek" as you say it would only affect a very small number of people. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:37, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Kelvin 101: I'm in agreement that we should stick to "lower-greek". Soaper1234 (talk) 08:16, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

In that case I won't change it unless someone says we have to. anemoneprojectors 10:58, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Supplementals

@Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234: I just added Marsden's Video Diaries to 2009 and 2010, and I think we should add Lauren's Diaries to 2010, 2011 and 2012 (actually I think we should add them to Lauren's article). But should we add Tamwar Tales and The B&B? Are they supplemental episodes, or are they miniature spin-offs, like little EastEnders: E20s? anemoneprojectors 14:50, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Or indeed should we consider Lauren's Diaries to be like that and not add it? anemoneprojectors 14:55, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:I think we should added them because all were mentioned at the end of the episodes. All of Tamwar Tales, Lauren's Diary, The B&B and Under Suspicion are all classed as Webisodes but still have their place. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:33, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Is Under Suspicion the Who Killed Lucy stuff or something else? If something else, it needs adding. But if we include Tamwar Tales and The B&B, I think it would be like including EastEnders: E20, as they don't follow any specific storyline in EastEnders, whereas all the ones currently listed do, and unlike the bubbles, they're series not single episodes. And there would be duplication, as Tamwar Tales and The B&B both have episode lists already in the appropriate character articles. anemoneprojectors 16:13, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Sorry the "Under Suspicion" one I was thinking of was when Phil was being stalked.

• http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/4MRQGS3yRRXHjFZBrzkWtJ5/webisodes

I think it does mention Tamwar Tales on one of these two articles.

• List of EastEnders television spin-offs
• EastEnders spin-offs

What about the red button episode "Stacey and Janine (20 December 2010), Stacey and Ryan (23 December 2010), Max and Lauren wedding (24 December 2010)"

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 17:21, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Oh wait forget "Stacey and Janine (20 December 2010), Stacey and Ryan (23 December 2010), Max and Lauren wedding (24 December 2010)" you have already added it Kelvin 101 (talk) 17:25, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Oh I didn't know about the Under Suspicion ones, the 5 episodes defintely need adding to the 2011 list. I also didn't know about the Webisodes page. It makes me thing perhaps we should include Tamwar Tales and The B&B. We can say what they are about briefly but just link to the seciton in Tawmar and Kim's pages for more information. I'm glad to see Lauren's Diary there, in a much better layout than the one in the external links of her article. I would say we shouldn't include The Queen Vic Speeches but as they are essentially reviews of 2011 and 2012, we could add them as external links for those years, unless you think we should include them. Tamwar Tales and The B&B are both mentioned in EastEnders spin-offs#Internet and BBC Red Button, as is Lauren's Diaries, "Amira's Secret", "Phil on Remand", "Billy's Olympic Nightmare" and "All I Want for Christmas", but it doesn't affect what we're doing :-) anemoneprojectors 03:23, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Cast images

Following the discussion at Talk:List of EastEnders characters, I wondered whether a cast photo could be possibly used in some of the earlier years where a cast changes gallery would not be suitable. Just an idea? Soaper1234 (talk) 23:53, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

@Soaper1234: The 1985 image is already used in three articles so I'd say not for that one, as I'd say three is already too many. I'd prefer only free images but it would be possible. Surely with all the available images there would be at least some that could be used each year. The picture of Anna Wing, Wendy Richard, Leslie Grantham, Bill Lyons (writer) and Jonathan McLeish (casting director) could definitely be used for the 1985 page. anemoneprojectors 01:01, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

Also the resolution of the group photos would be so low that they would be almost worthless, other than to show the approximate number of cast members - which the cast list already shows. anemoneprojectors 01:03, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: That's fine, I thought I may as well through my ideas about and see if they were any good :P Also, sorry for spoiling the Lee episode for you :/ Soaper1234 (talk) 11:32, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

@Soaper1234: (off topic) Well, if it was in the mainspace anyone could update an episode I haven't seen, so I can't really complain about that. I haven't seen the last episode yet, so I probably to not check until after I've seen the latest episode... I can't ask you not to edit any storyline information until I've updated a synopsis, as that's not fair :-) (on topic) Well it was a good idea in principle, but shall we see what free images we could add? It doesn't even have to be cast changes, it could be a picture of any cast member who appeared in that year. Basically, if we wanted to, we could use, for example, the picture of Cheryl Fergison in every year from 2007 to 2012. So I'm sure we have enough pictures. anemoneprojectors 11:57, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I suppose so, but nevertheless. Yes, I see what you mean. I'm sure we'll make the inclusion of images work. Soaper1234 (talk) 12:12, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: I have been put on the cast changes images but on User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (2007) we might need to remove one to make it fit, any suggestions. I have already removed two guest cast from the gallery. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 01:39, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I would say leave them in for now as the cast paragraphs will be added eventually, then we can see how they fit and remove any afterwards if necessary. anemoneprojectors 10:18, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Also if you find cast images that on Wikipedia:WikiProject EastEnders/Free-use images, can you add them? Such as the Will Mellor one? Thanks :-) anemoneprojectors 10:22, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Whitney Dean Storylines Sandbox

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: Hi I remember a while ago, I saw a sandbox with Whitney storylines in it but I cannot seem to find it anymore, I am sure it was under the below category?

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:EastEnders_episodes

I remember editing the episode numbers on the article.

Any ideas?

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

@Kelvin 101: Sorry, I'm no use to this. I can't think of anything off the top of my head. Soaper1234 (talk) 14:52, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: A sandbox shouldn't have been in a category, but if you're looking for Whitney's abuse by Rob, it's in M.Mario's userspace: User:M.Mario/sandbox:Whitney's Story. anemoneprojectors 15:25, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Thanks very much that's the one I was looking for,is it ok if I add sub section to User:AnemoneProjectors/List_of_EastEnders_episodes that lists any Episode drafts articles? Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:39, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101:Any draft that could be of use to this project can be added, yeah. anemoneprojectors 15:41, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Episode 1

@AnemoneProjectors: I was going to create a sandbox episode page for Episode 1 but I thought I would just check just incase you already created one in the past? Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:57, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: No I haven't created one, nor do I know of anyone who has. There's a redirect at Episode 1 (EastEnders) but it has no substantial history. anemoneprojectors 08:24, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Recurring and guest cast

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi can I ask if in Recurring and guest cast sections on User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (2017) for example if all guest are listed for example some characters appeared in 9 March 2017 Part 2 "Dr Natasha Black, Jimmy Glover, DS Yasmin Khodeir, Luke Ayshford etc but aren't listed or do we wait for a final count? If I am wrong I do apologise Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:54, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: No problem - for recurring and guest cast I only list them if they're mentioned in the plots, so I reverted your addition of Natasha Black for now though I would try to mention as many as I can... and I only added Mrs Robyn Lund after I had written that episode.

So currently these characters aren't mentioned:

• Christopher Dane as Jørgen Christensen (2 episodes)
• Grant Davis as Tube Driver (2 episodes)
• Cerith Flinn as Mr Gethin Pryce (2 episodes)
• Victoria Gee as Mary Scholes (2 episodes)
• Justin Pierre as PC/DC Jim Glover (2 episodes)
• Hester Ruoff as Debbie Frith (2 episodes)
• Sirene Saba as DS Yasmin Khodeir (2 episodes)
• Yo Santhaveesuk as Panit (2 episodes)
• Sean Michael Verey as Luke Ayshford (2 episodes)
• Damola Adelaja as Mr Omar Wright (1 episode)
• Nick Bartlett as Pawnbroker (1 episode)
• Rachel Bavidge as Dr Natasha Black (1 episode)
• Sarah Belcher as Marcia Drabble (1 episode)
• Hainsley Lloyd Bennett as Dr Michael Osoba (1 episode)
• Donna Berlin as Brenda Kane (1 episode)
• Ulric Browne as Winston (1 episode)
• Jessica Butler as PC Annika Fairbank (1 episode)
• George Churchill as Samuel Philpott (1 episode)
• Alison Egan as Sgt Sharon Bayes (1 episode)
• Mia Foo as Nurse Olivia Song (1 episode)
• Munro Graham as Bob (1 episode)
• Robert Hands as Mr Colin McWerther (1 episode)
• Kieron Jecchinis as John Dixon (1 episode)
• Michael Keating as The Reverend George Stevens (1 episode)
• Gail Kemp as Nurse Gemma Bardon (1 episode)
• Will Kenning as the fire chief (1 episode)
• Dean Kilbey as Gary (1 episode)
• Simon Lanagan as Sergeant Lucius Hamilton (1 episode)
• Sarah Mowat as Registrar (1 episode)
• Cassie Raine as Coroner (1 episode)
• Mary Ryder as Magistrate Beryl Todd (1 episode)
• Jane Slaughter as Tracey (1 episode)
• Tristam Summers as Tom Pepper (1 episode)
• Jean Trend as Sian Davies (1 episode)
• Nicola Weeks as Nurse Laura Barnes (1 episode)
• Luke Williams as PC Julian Walsh (1 episode)
• Kirsty Woodward as School Tannoy Announcer (1 episode)

Hope that makes sense. I wasn't sure about including Louie Beale because I haven't had a chance to mention him, and when working on 2016 I didn't add the babies and pets until I did. anemoneprojectors 16:27, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Just to add on what has been included above. Should Rev. Stevens be included anyway as he is a long-term recurring character? Soaper1234 (talk) 16:53, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

@Soaper1234: I would prefer to wait until he's mentioned. If there's a way I can fit any names in I'll do it, but sometimes I don't because I want to keep the plot summaries shorter. But I'll see what I can do. Tracey as well but she was only mentioned before because she was involved in Kathy's return, so it's harder to try to fit her in. anemoneprojectors 17:26, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Ok, thank you for the confirmation. Soaper1234 (talk) 17:28, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

@Soaper1234: I did want to get Stevens in at the time, so I've pushed his name in now. anemoneprojectors 17:39, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Brilliant, although I understand your reasons for not doing originally. Soaper1234 (talk) 17:42, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

There was no episode on [date] due to...

Would it make more sense to have these notes in the episode after the date in which the episode was supposed to air, rather than the episode before? I mention this because of the use of "was", suggesting something in the past. — RachelRice (talk, contribs) — 01:12, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

I don't know, as far as I'm aware I copied what you started in the 2015 list in your userspace. But it is all in the past, regardless of which episode we list it with. It's not like we're going to say "there will be no episode on 16 December 2004". I thought it made sense to put it with the episode before because it explains why the next date is missing, rather than the previous date, so it's more chronological. However, if it's in a different month then that might need to be different. anemoneprojectors 18:35, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Episode plots walford.net

@AnemoneProjectors, Soaper1234, and RachelRice: Hi anyone know who the owner of walford.net was reason I ask its went offline a while ago and wanted to ask them if we could use the plots they had all from 1985-2014.

I did manage to find some on the internet archive. Although they probably would need a re-write anyway to shorten them down for the episode guides.

• http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://walford.net/story/*
• http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://walford.2y.net/*

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 00:39, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: They would need to be rewritten from scratch anyway to avoid copyright violation. I guess you wouldn't need permission to write something in your own words, as long as you didn't copy and paste anything. It would only need to be around 140-200 words for a 30-minute episode. But no I don't know who that person was. anemoneprojectors 08:13, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

Monthly section opening paragraphs

@Soaper1234, RachelRice, and Kelvin 101: Hey guys, I wondered if someone could help with expanding the monthly section opening paragraphs in 2016 and 2017. 2016 is mostly ok but June needs more, September needs sources, and November needs anything. Also, I'd like to see the arrivals and departures of any main characters added to these sections - I did do some that were missing for 2016 a while ago but there are more. For 2017 I've only done January and a small amount for February. I've been so busy that I've found these sections harder to keep up to date, especially when I'm sometimes a week behind and trying to avoid spoilers (currently just 2 eps behind, I should be completely caught up by Friday morning if I fit in a single episode ever day (which is my usual)!) So any help in those areas would be greatly appreciated. 2015 also needs more (Rachel did a great job on what was there). 2014 and 2013 have some paragraphs too, so could do with more. I won't check any others right now! But basically for any year that currently has at least one paragraph, it would be nice to have them all completed, but any year that has none isn't a priority at this time. Thanks! anemoneprojectors 17:13, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Kelvin 101: June, September and November 2016 done. If anyone has any spare time on the link below is monthly summaries for 2008

• http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/eastenders/news/a138571/year-in-brief-2008-eastenders/

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:26, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

You pinged yourself but it's too late now, changing a ping doesn't ping! For November 2016, I had commented out a number of storylines I thought worthy of mention but I didn't realise I had done this. Dot's health is the only one you added, but thanks for the updates! If there are any storylines that are announced in advance, these are probably the main ones to add to any section - mentioning this especially for the 2017 page. anemoneprojectors 16:25, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi I has start to added the 1985 opening paragraphs, I am using two books but re-writing them

• EastEnders Handbook by Hilary Kingsley (Monthly plots for 1985-October 1991)
• The EastEnders Programme Guide by Josephine Monroe (Monthly plots for 1985-1993)

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:20, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. I feel the earlier ones are less important right now but every little helps. It seems odd having a monthly summary for a month with only four episodes, but that's just because it was the first month! Is everything for Feb and March 1985 from pages 34–37 of EastEnders Handbook? anemoneprojectors 15:43, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: By the way, I think it would be better if there was some real-world information, rather than just plots, as the plots are going to be covered by the episode synopses anyway, unless it's part of a long-term storyline that spans several months. I'm not sure if that happened so much in the beginning. anemoneprojectors 14:14, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi pages 34–37 cover the whole of 1985. Will try try and put a pictures up for you later. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:21, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Oh that's ok then :-) anemoneprojectors 21:44, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi can you take a look at the EastEnders Programme Guide and see if it's worth adding these monthly plots as like you say they are short.

• https://www.flickr.com/photos/30536759@N07/33217060354/in/album-72157671061439105/

These are the years with the months and which pages they are on.

• 1985 p34-35 (Feb-June) |p36-37 (July-Dec)
• 1986 p38-39 (Jan-July) |p40-41 (Aug-Dec)
• 1987 p42-43 (Jan-June) |p44-45 (July-Dec)
• 1988 p46-47 (Jan-June) |p48-49 (July-Dec)
• 1989 p50-51 (Jan-July) |p52-53 (Aug-Dec)
• 1990 p54-55 (Jan-July) |p56-57 (Aug-Dec)
• 1991 p58-59 (Jan-June) |p60-61 (July-Oct)

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 23:36, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: It makes a good reference, so yeah I would certainly use the book. As they're quite short, it should contain only the more important plots (though as there were so few episodes back then, for all I know every plot might be mentioned anyway! I wasn't watching EE until around 1991... but even I wouldn't really remember what it was like at that time!). But for referencing page numbers, I would use the single page number that each month is on, so page 34 for Feb and March 1985, page 35 for April, May and June. anemoneprojectors 09:32, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Two unaccounted for episodes

Hi I have came across something that may explain the two unaccounted for episodes (29 November 2002 and 25 December 2002 Part 2).

I got came across a picture of a script on eBay and was also send sent an old script as a present. (Ignore the transmission date as they were not precise due to be scheduled in advance but writer/director match)

• On eBay I found a script for 2 November 2000 which is Episode 1053A but there is no mention of Episode 1053B it being an hour long.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/30536759@N07/34926270166/

• The script I received as a present another hour long episode 7 August 2008 but it says it's Episode 1478 not double numbered.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/30536759@N07/34926270026/

I don't know if these ended up with one or two numbers in the end but it might be worth asking the written archive to check for us. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 14:33, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Wow, I didn't expect this. On your list User:Kelvin 101/EastEnders Episodes Reset you have 7 August 2008 as 1477, not 1478, so you should try to correct that, though you have 11 August 2008 as 1480, sourced. We know from scripts that are available from Live Week that double-numbered episodes show both numbers on the script, so if 7 August 2008 is not double numbered on the script, then it's unlikely to have been double numbered after the double reset - we can definitely change this one! The numbers on the scripts won't have changed following the reset so I don't think the written archive will be any use, they'll just confirm the numbers as 1478 and 1053A. Do you have an example of a script in the same format as 1053A that has two numbers on it? —anemoneprojectors— 15:33, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

This all sounds convincing enough for me to go ahead and make the necessary changes. Do you have any objections? I think it's a much better solution than thinking 2 episodes were missed! —anemoneprojectors— 15:47, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I only have two pictures of scripts in that format.

• https://www.flickr.com/photos/30536759@N07/34582553900

• https://www.flickr.com/photos/30536759@N07/34159507983

But as they are shooting scripts I am not sure how different they are compared to the standard script.

I don't have any objections and do agree it's convincing and would fix the the list, it would also mean changing the character's appearances from November 2000. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:55, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Thanks. I've started to make the changes to the ep lists - done 2000, 2001 and 2002 now. Needs to be done up to 2008. I'm going to stop though because it's time consuming and I'm already bored of it! But I'll look at character infoboxes, those'll be pretty easy to fix. Now, please don't find any more that aren't double-numbered! ;-) —anemoneprojectors— 16:12, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

I've done all the character infoboxes - first went through lists of characters 2000 to 2008, including those with independent articles, then checked the past list for characters who left between 2000 and 2008 but joined before 2000. So just the userspace lists need updating. —anemoneprojectors— 19:05, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi wow thanks you have done a lot in a short time, I have been away from my computer but will try and get some done tomorrow. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

@Kelvin 101: Thanks. This is kind of what I was hoping we would find. It means there aren't episodes missed off now. Thanks in advance for helping with the ep numbers - as you might have noticed I've been devoting my free time recently to developing articles relating to Redwater. —anemoneprojectors— 21:38, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

The Return of Nick Cotton - rating

@Kelvin 101: I can't see the rating for this episode on BARB, but your draft cites BARB. Does the other reference in your draft confirm the rating or just its position in the top 100? —anemoneprojectors— 16:51, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi I believe on BARB it's just labeled as "EASTENDERS (SUN 2000". The other reference does indeed confirm the figure. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 12:01, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Sorry I got confused, because the other two episodes are combined with "SUN", so I assumed it was a normal EastEnders for that week and didn't look at the days properly! —anemoneprojectors— 12:10, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Exclusive scenes

As you may or may not have noticed, I've been working on User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders supplemental episodes. I started going through all the clips I could find on the BBC website to update this but it seems that a lot of them are exclusive scenes rather than special episodes (though I think they should still be listed there, which is why I made a separate section for them). I'm considering if we should remove these exclusive scenes from the supplemental episodes sections in the year lists, and instead, go with something like this:

#	No. in year	Original air date	Running time	Directed by	Written by	Viewers (millions)
4125	195	20 December 2010 (2010-12-20)	30 minutes	Tim Mercier	Jesse O'Mahoney	11.42
This episode was followed by an exclusive 6-minute scene made available online, titled "Janine meets... Stacey!"[ref]

That would reduce the number of supplemental episodes, but to me it sounds like the right thing to do - they're scenes not episodes, unlike things like "CivvyStreet" and "Dorothy Branning: The Next Chapter". But Lauren's Diaries, Marsden's Video Diaries, etc, would still count as supplemental episodes. —anemoneprojectors— 11:32, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

This seems to be a better format for the one scene specials. Soaper1234 - talk 16:53, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, glad you agree :-) I'll make a start probably tomorrow. My supplementals draft is looking better, not sure if I should call them "special EastEnders episodes" instead. —anemoneprojectors— 19:35, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

I'm liking how the episode articles are coming along and I like the plans in place. Also, small note on how great your work on the Redwater articles are! Soaper1234 - talk 19:59, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Episode numbering error

@AnemoneProjectors and Kelvin 101: I don't know if this throws anything out of balance for your episode numbering but the 2508th episode (actually broadcast on 29 April 2003) was listed twice in the 2003 list, which knocked everything forward an episode. I'm changing it now so it adds up but does this mean everything else needs changing too? Soaper1234 - talk 09:52, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

2000 to 2008 had incorrect numbers because we found two hour-long episodes that weren't double numbered - there's a discussion above (#Two unaccounted for episodes). I fixed a few of the years and Kelvin had started on 2003, but only got as far as April last night. So that's why that number was listed twice. You've now finished off the job for him, so all the numbers in 2003 are correct! The changes needing to be made are listed on the page attached to this talk page. —anemoneprojectors— 10:10, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Ah right, that makes sense now! Sorry for interrupting Kelvin. I was aware of the above discussion but had not looked into it at great length - next time I'll double check all discussions first! Soaper1234 - talk 10:17, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

I'm sure Kelvin won't mind that you finished off the job :-) —anemoneprojectors— 11:13, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Not a problem thanks for finishing 2003, can't complain when the work is completed quicker. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 12:26, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Final ratings

Just wondering something - since {{Episode list}} says the viewing figure should be the "final" number, should we add the BBC One rating to the BBC Three/W rating? BARB ratings for BBC3 start at 16 May 2005, so that's a lot. So we might decide not to do it. Also not every episode will have made the top 10 for BBC3 or W so it wouldn't be consistent and if possible I like to be consistent - I'd hate to have to add loads of notes if we don't have to! Example: 23 January 2012 had 9,743,000 viewers on BBC One, and 703,000 on BBC Three, making a total of 10,446,000. However, a week like 7 September 2015 only had 2 episodes rated in BBC3's top 10, and quite often EE doesn't rate in W's top 10 at all. Any thoughts? — anemoneprojectors 23:01, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

By the way, it's way too much work. — anemoneprojectors 23:12, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:When it says the final are you sure it just means to use the final figure after the 28 days and not the overnight figure. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 00:38, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

The overnight figure is the initial rating, while the 28 day rating is the final rating. Overnight ratings only take into account people who watched the episode live at the time of broadcast, while 28 day ratings includes all those who watched through on demand and streaming - so it's the final figure. Overnights aren't reported most of the time anyway. The final figure is what we've used throughout, but I just wonder if adding the BBC Three or W rating would make it more true, but like I said, it would be inconsistent and a hell of a lot of work. — anemoneprojectors 07:37, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

Supplemental episodes running times

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: Hi just to confirm do you prefer precise or rounded runtimes or even both on Supplemental episodes?

On some pages such as the below the runtimes are round and precise

User:AnemoneProjectors/List_of_EastEnders_episodes_(2013)#Supplemental_episodes

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:13, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I know these are a mixture throughout, and probably to be more encyclopaedic it's probably better to round them to the nearest minute, so if something is 3 minutes 30 seconds, round it to 4 minutes, but if it's 3 minutes 29 seconds, round it to 3 minutes. If something is less than 30 seconds, then let me know and I'll have a think, but I think Marsden's Video Diaries are the shortest episodes we have and they're all over 30 seconds. However, in User:AnemoneProjectors/List of special EastEnders episodes I'm taking the total time and then rounding it, and there are still some eps I don't have a duration for, so I would need to know the number of seconds before updating that. — anemoneprojectors 09:50, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Special episode pages

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: I think we should consider moving the remaining specials to their public pages.

• User:Kelvin 101/Return of Nick Cotton
• User:Kelvin 101/Ricky & Bianca
• User:Kelvin 101/Dot's Story
• User:Kelvin 101/Perfectly Frank
• User:Kelvin 101/Pat and Mo

I am surprised we managed to find that much information about the specials, particularly regarding Perfectly Frank. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 22:59, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

I have title cards for all specials apart from Perfectly Frank but did find a cast promo for Perfectly Frank. Kelvin 101 (talk) 23:01, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Perfectly Frank looks ready if there's no more information. The others seem a little short but Ricky & Bianca seems the closest to being ready and Return of Nick Cotton needing the most work. Not sure if you saw my proposals relating to the special episodes at the top of my list of special episodes draft. — anemoneprojectors 23:09, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure if I proposed it there so I'll add this, I think the character lists in List of EastEnders spin-off characters should be merged into your drafts/articles. Actually as they are more special episodes than spin-offs, they should really be put into the lists of characters by year, but the drafts could be expanded with that information. — anemoneprojectors 23:12, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

Sorry I hadn't seen it but having just read it, it makes sense to me. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 23:15, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

I did propose that about the characters actually, glad you agree. If you want to discuss any of the proposals it can be on the talk page of User:AnemoneProjectors/List of special EastEnders episodes. By the way the behind the scenes section you added I actually moved to User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders-related documentaries. — anemoneprojectors 23:24, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

2018 draft

Hi AnemoneProjectors and Kelvin 101. Hope you are both well. Following news of Mel's return, which is scheduled for 2018, I have created a draft for 2018 episodes. I kept in your name AP and I hope you both don't mind. Thank you, Soaper1234 - talk 15:19, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks :-) I didn't know she would be returning next year, I thought it would be sooner. — anemoneprojectors 21:36, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

@Soaper1234: Sorry forgot to reply to your message looks good to me. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:14, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Stolen scripts

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: Not sure if it's worth noting this on the 2017 episode page about the stolen Christmas scripts, it seem to be reported by a number of news outlets

• http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5032847/EastEnders-Christmas-script-stolen-offered-4-000.html
• http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/eastenders/news/a841995/eastenders-christmas-script-stolen-bbc-investigation/
• http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/01/eastenders-christmas-script-revealing-abi-and-laurens-exits-stolen-to-be-sold-for-4000-7044946/
• http://www.ok.co.uk/tv/eastenders/1217773/eastenders-christmas-script-stolen-abi-lauren-branning-exit-storyline-plot-sold-4000-investigation
• https://www.hellomagazine.com/film/2017110143641/eastenders-christmas-special-script-stolen/

but I am confused because if you look at the daily mail picture of the script

• http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/11/01/11/45DCF59400000578-5032847-The_shot_list_containing_about_the_same_number_of_pages_and_prin-a-29_1509534389851.jpg

you will see it references episode 5521-5524, which according to our list was broadcast 3 July 2017 to 7 July 2017?

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:27, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

I actually saw this in my local news because the person who stole the scripts is from my hometown. But I don't think it needs to be mentioned. — anemoneprojectors 10:18, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: In regard to the camera plans image, I do not think they are in relation to Christmas. Soaper1234 - talk 12:24, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

Classic Christmas episodes

@Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234: iPlayer currently has a number of classic Christmas episodes available here, though I doubt I'll have time to watch them. But noticed a few things:

• Christmas Day 1986 part 2 states it was broadcast at 10pm not 11.30pm. This is confirmed by the Genome reference already in the article so I changed this.
• Christmas Day 2003 part 1 is 40 minutes, not 30.
• Christmas Day 2003 part 2 is 40 minutes not 30. Genome confirms both of these so I've changed them.

Does this mean that Genome has corrected some wrong information since we added it? If so, do you think we need to go through other episodes shown at different times or of different lengths just to make sure? Although I haven't watched the available episodes, I checked the end credits and didn't find anything wrong apart from 1998 has barely any credits at all, no writers or directors. However, unrelated to this article maybe the end credits might reveal some missing "other" characters for character lists. I didn't really look. — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 10:58, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

I am confused why these have been added to iPlayer as they weren't broadcast on TV recently, I don't think. I suspect because the licences for BBC Store expire at the end of the year they thought they may as well use it. I have time off work for Christmas so I know what I will be watching. Thanks for let me know, will keep an eye out for more characters Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 12:59, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Forgot to mention 1998 writer/director credits are at the start of the episodes. I don't thing Genome has been amended it may have just been something we over looked, although I could ask.

The problem with Genome with runtime is you have to you have to manually navigate to each listing for that day. It's not on the episode page themselves the page on shows time of broadcast, although I have suggested a runtime in the past to Genome. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 13:17, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 13:17, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Kelvin 101: Sorry, I'm not much help with this side of things, although in response to Kelvin, the episodes have been added as BBC are wanting to channel a bit of Netflix/Amazon Prime Video by adding boxsets and episodes (see here). Soaper1234 - talk1 21:36, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for that Soaper1234 (oh amazing, I can watch the first 2 series of Line of Duty!). I assumed it was a Christmas treat rather than to do with them being broadcast or BBC Store closing. @Kelvin 101: I thought those credits might be at the start and I watched the opening titles but went no further than that, so I guess that's why I didn't see them, if they were shown over the action. I've always looked at Genome's listings rather than individual episodes (and we usually cite the listings), so never found it a problem to get runtimes, but obviously had no reason to check the two we had down as 30 mins that were actually 40 mins, but the one that was shown at 10pm was definitely listed on Genome as being shown at 11.30pm before, as I remember seeing it before. — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 22:58, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: No worries. There are plenty I'm looking forward to re-/watching too! Soaper1234 - talk1 23:12, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: A quick look on the wayback machine in 2014 shows it was 10pm. it even mentions it on part 1 that part 2 is on at 10pm *http://web.archive.org/web/20141018121029/http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/1986-12-25

I know what you mean I saw it too but we might be thinking of New Years Eve 1987 http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/1987-12-31#at-23.30 perhaps it was a copy and paste I did but forgot to change the time. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 23:46, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Oh good, at least we've managed to fix a few errors, yeah was probably just a copy/paste error. So no need to keep checking others. — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 09:22, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Ricky and Bianca

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: I don't know if you have Channel W but tonight the Spin-off Ricky and Bianca is on at 11pm and 11:40pm. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 18:37, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

I saw that it was on while flicking through channels and watched for a little while but had to get to bed, really wanted to watch it though! I noticed that the write up was "a behind the scenes" so it seems they confused it with the documentary, which is what I was expecting it to be when I saw it listed! — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 00:43, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

Recurring and guest cast (part 2)

Hi @Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234: I wondered if you had an opinion on this - in 2017 especially, the recurring and guest cast section is a mix of recurring, former regular and one-off characters and I wondered if you thought it might be a good idea to split it into two sections like this:

Recurring and former regular cast

• Abbie Knowles as Amy Mitchell (60 episodes)
• Henri Charles as Ricky Mitchell (57 episodes)
• Bleu Landau as Dennis Rickman (44 episodes)
• Pernille Broch as Ingrid Solberg (35 episodes)
• Tom Jacobs as Riley Taylor (31 episodes)
• Aine Garvey as Lily Fowler (30 episodes)
• Alfie Jacobs as Chatham Taylor (29 episodes)
• Freddie Phillips as Will Mitchell (27 episodes)
• Grace as Janet Mitchell (26 episodes)
• Declan Bennett as Charlie Cotton (18 episodes)
• Martin Anzor as Preston Cooper (16 episodes)
• Piotr Baumann as Konrad Topolski (12 episodes)
• Ben Champniss as Shrimpy (12 episodes)
• George Maguire as Felix Moore (12 episodes)
• Simon Williams as Hugo Browning, the chairman of Weyland & Co (11 episodes)
• Doña Croll as Emerald Fox (10 episodes)
• Lucy Benjamin as Lisa Fowler (9 episodes)
• Liam Bergin as Danny Mitchell (7 episodes)
• Polly Highton as Mrs Robyn Lund (7 episodes)
• Jane Slaughter as Tracey (7 episodes)
• Christopher Dane as Jørgen Christensen (6 episodes)
• Ann Mitchell as Cora Cross (6 episodes)
• Sam Gittins as Wayne "Moose" Parker (5 episodes)
• Nick Wilton as Mr Lister (5 episodes)
• Mark Bagnall as Harry Beckett (4 episodes)
• Samuel James as Jimmie Broome (3 episodes)
• Michael Keating as The Reverend George Stevens (3 episodes)
• Melanie Kilburn as Reverend Irene Mills (3 episodes)
• Angela Wynter as Yolande Trueman (3 episodes)
• Lin Blakley as Pam Coker (2 episodes)
• Eliot Carrington as Bobby Beale (2 episodes)
• Charlee Hall as Oscar Branning (2 episodes)
• Amy-Leigh Hickman as Star Bragg (2 episodes)
• Dave Hill as Bert Atkinson (2 episodes)
• Jo Joyner as Tanya Cross (2 episodes)
• Anna Karen as Aunt Sal (2 episodes)
• Maria Friedman as Elaine Peacock (1 episode)
• Noah Maxwell-Clarke as Osman "Oz" Bolat (1 episode)
• Gillian Wright as Jean Walters (1 episode)
• Aureya as Pearl Fox-Hubbard (unknown episodes)
• Hunter Bell as Arthur Fowler (unknown episodes)
• Cyrus as Bronson (unknown episodes)
• Charlie harrington as Ollie Carter (unknown episodes)
• Hot Lips as Lady Di (unknown episodes)
• Oscar Winehouse as Louie Beale (unknown episodes)
• Unknown as Dave (unknown episodes)
• Unknown as Hope Fowler (unknown episodes)
• Unknown as Matthew Mitchell Cotton (unknown episodes)

Guest cast

• Charlie De Melo as PC Jaz Jones (5 episodes)
• Laura Rogers as Corrine Mandel (5 episodes)
• Sandra James-Young as Fiona Payne (4 episodes)
• Andrew Lewis as Dr Webster (4 episodes)
• Justin Pierre as DC Jimmy Glover (4 episodes)
• Matt Slack as PC Gregg Preston (4 episodes)
• Rachel Bavidge as Dr Natasha Black (3 episodes)
• Tessa Churchard as Trish Barnes (3 episodes)
• Michelle Connolly as Liz Cotton (3 episodes)
• Beth Cordingly as Debbie Morton (3 episodes)
• Eileen Davies as Joan Murfield (3 episodes)
• Tom Dawze as Lloyd (3 episodes)
• Stirling Gallacher as the Mayor of Walford (3 episodes)
• Jonathan Harden as DS Kye Anderson (3 episodes)
• Shaun Aylward as Callum (2 episodes)
• George Churchill as Samuel Philpott (2 episodes)
• Jim Dowdall as the bus driver (2 episodes)
• Frédérique Feder as Antoinette Giroux (2 episodes)
• Tariq Jordan as Dr Ali (2 episodes)
• Polly Maberly as DI Ellie Kent (2 episodes)
• Kevin McCurdy as Sol (2 episodes)
• Joanna Miller as DS Jennifer Adney (2 episodes)
• Sirene Saba as DS Yasmin Khodeir (2 episodes)
• David Semark as DC Manners (2 episodes)
• Alexandra Sinclair as Imogen (2 episodes)
• Hannah Spearritt as Kandice Taylor (2 episodes)
• Margaréta Szabó as Agnes Novak (2 episodes)
• Sean Michael Verey as Luke Ayshford (2 episodes)
• Nick Waring as Dr Harding (2 episodes)
• Maia Watkins as Candice (2 episodes)
• Bryony Afferson as Dr Prince (1 episode)
• David Alexander as the man who breaks Felix's vase (1 episode)
• Elizabeth Appleby as the police officer who questions Sonia (1 episode)
• Jason Baughan as David Kennedy (1 episode)
• Chris Bell as Alan Robinson (1 episode)
• Jack Bence as Beanbag (1 episode)
• Alex Blake as Zayan Scott (1 episode)
• Andrew Bone as Mr Waters (1 episode)
• Roly Both as Kieran (1 episode)
• Richard Brimblecombe as Dr Owen McKenna (1 episode)
• Philip Brodie as DI Fuller (1 episode)
• David Broughton-Davies as Richard Day (1 episode)
• Deano Bugatti as Finch (1 episode)
• Alicia Charles as Gwen (1 episode)
• Esther Coles as Jan, the Carters' counsellor (1 episode)
• Anita Louise Combe as Rochelle (1 episode)
• Jordan Coulson as Tommy (1 episode)
• Nik Drake as DCI Alsworth (1 episode)
• Sarah Durham as Lorraine (1 episode)
• Richard Frame as Mark (1 episode)
• Steve George as Geoff (1 episode)
• Tara Godolphin as Persephone (1 episode)
• Cate Hamer as Leah Goldberg (1 episode)
• Paul Jacobs as Justin Fairbrass (1 episode)
• Jack Jones as Ben's date (1 episode)
• Jude Clark as Aaron Palmer (1 episode)
• Fleur Keith as Dr Roberts (1 episode)
• Gillian Kirkpatrick as DI Sara Davenport (1 episode)
• Jamie Knox as Nathan (1 episode)
• Clare Lawrence Moody as Dr Henry (1 episode)
• John MacKay as Dr Lucas Sharpe (1 episode)
• Jade Matthew as Sarah (1 episode)
• Tomi May as the shopping centre security guard (1 episode)
• Matt McClure as DC Walters (1 episode)
• Sanchia McCormack as DC Sally Booth (1 episode)
• Trevor Murphy as Doug (1 episode)
• Mazz Murray as Julie (1 episode)
• Jamie Nichols as Marcus Leask (1 episode)
• Stacey Norris as Traffic PC Patrice Newbold (1 episode)
• Krupa Pattani as Dr Anjali Mitra (1 episode)
• Mark Rawlings as Dr Sullivan (1 episode)
• Tania Rodrigues as Manprett Hesbani (1 episode)
• Ace Ruele as Rowan (1 episode)
• Maya Soroya as Mrs Kapoor (1 episode)
• Liz Sutherland as Pru Garcia (1 episode)
• Dominic Thorburn as Jeff Atkinson (1 episode)
• Emily Wyatt as Nurse Rachel Covell (1 episode)
• Unknown as Luke the stripper (1 episode)

I just thought it might make things a little clearer, and would start it in 2018 as well, maybe 2016 too but any sections for other years that are smaller we could leave. Your thoughts? — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 13:07, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Yeah looking at this layout it make it easier to read especially if there is a lot of cast, so I would go with your suggestion. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 13:22, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, although it might be awkward deciding who goes in recurring and who goes in guest (e.g. Fiona Payne, Trish Barnes, Jimmy Glover, Natasha Black, Dr Harding...). — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 14:07, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

I'm liking the suggested layout and it is a good idea. The only issue I can think of is would be the already mentioned one - how to decide who goes where. Also, do we still include notes for former regular characters? But overall, I would support this layout. Soaper1234 - talk 15:10, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Or could even make a separate section for former regulars, so:

Recurring cast

• Abbie Knowles as Amy Mitchell (60 episodes)
• Henri Charles as Ricky Mitchell (57 episodes)
• Bleu Landau as Dennis Rickman (44 episodes)
• Pernille Broch as Ingrid Solberg (35 episodes)
• Tom Jacobs as Riley Taylor (31 episodes)
• Aine Garvey as Lily Fowler (30 episodes)
• Alfie Jacobs as Chatham Taylor (29 episodes)
• Freddie Phillips as Will Mitchell (27 episodes)
• Grace as Janet Mitchell (26 episodes)
• Martin Anzor as Preston Cooper (16 episodes)
• Piotr Baumann as Konrad Topolski (12 episodes)
• Ben Champniss as Shrimpy (12 episodes)
• George Maguire as Felix Moore (12 episodes)
• Simon Williams as Hugo Browning, the chairman of Weyland & Co (11 episodes)
• Doña Croll as Emerald Fox (10 episodes)
• Polly Highton as Mrs Robyn Lund (7 episodes)
• Jane Slaughter as Tracey (7 episodes)
• Christopher Dane as Jørgen Christensen (6 episodes)
• Sam Gittins as Wayne "Moose" Parker (5 episodes)
• Nick Wilton as Mr Lister (5 episodes)
• Mark Bagnall as Harry Beckett (4 episodes)
• Samuel James as Jimmie Broome (3 episodes)
• Michael Keating as The Reverend George Stevens (3 episodes)
• Melanie Kilburn as Reverend Irene Mills (3 episodes)
• Eliot Carrington as Bobby Beale (2 episodes)
• Charlee Hall as Oscar Branning (2 episodes)
• Amy-Leigh Hickman as Star Bragg (2 episodes)
• Anna Karen as Aunt Sal (2 episodes)
• Noah Maxwell-Clarke as Osman "Oz" Bolat (1 episode)
• Aureya as Pearl Fox-Hubbard (unknown episodes)
• Hunter Bell as Arthur Fowler (unknown episodes)
• Cyrus as Bronson (unknown episodes)
• Charlie harrington as Ollie Carter (unknown episodes)
• Hot Lips as Lady Di (unknown episodes)
• Oscar Winehouse as Louie Beale (unknown episodes)
• Unknown as Dave (unknown episodes)
• Unknown as Hope Fowler (unknown episodes)
• Unknown as Matthew Mitchell Cotton (unknown episodes)

Former regular cast making guest appearances

• Declan Bennett as Charlie Cotton (18 episodes)
• Ian Lavender as Derek Harkinson (17 episodes)
• Glynis Barber as Glenda Mitchell (14 episodes)
• Belinda Owusu as Libby Fox (11 episodes)
• Lucy Benjamin as Lisa Fowler (9 episodes)
• Liam Bergin as Danny Mitchell (7 episodes)
• Ann Mitchell as Cora Cross (6 episodes)
• Angela Wynter as Yolande Trueman (3 episodes)
• Lin Blakley as Pam Coker (2 episodes)
• Dave Hill as Bert Atkinson (2 episodes)
• Jo Joyner as Tanya Cross (2 episodes)
• Maria Friedman as Elaine Peacock (1 episode)
• Gillian Wright as Jean Walters (1 episode)

That would eliminate the need for a footnote. As for recurring/guest, it's obvious for many, like Aunt Sal, Reverend Stevens, who have been appearing on and off for years, and then all the child characters who can't be considered regulars. Maybe for now keep recurring and guest together, separate former regulars? — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 10:55, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Book refs

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: Hi I have been adding book reference for the below pages, can you please check that the book references have been resolved for all the below pages. Then all these notes can be removed and we are closer to moving all of them to the main space.

• User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (1985) READY but still 5 instances of {{cite book}} with no page numbers
• User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (1986) READY but still 4 instances of {{cite book}} with no page numbers
• User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (1987) READY but still 4 instances of {{cite book}} with no page numbers
• User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (1988) READY but still 2 instances of {{cite book}} with no page numbers
• User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (1989) READY but still 2 instances of {{cite book}} with no page numbers

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:17, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: There was actually many more instances of page numbers to find that I had listed, but thanks for the hard work.

• 1985 - Reference 4 is broken, so 5 Inside Story page numbers still need to be found
• 1986 - you replaced and EE Handbook reference with First 10 Years page 44 - "Donald Tandy joined the show's cast in August as an elderly army war veteran, Tom Clements", and the book Albert Square & Me: The Actors of EastEnders with First 10 Years p46. Both of these are fine as long as the information is accurate. If the EE Handbook reference is not needed, it can be removed from the bibliography, so I have done this, and fixed some reference errors.
• 1987 - I fixed some reference errors including wrong year for books and wrong author - only last names are used for the harvnb reference. Reference 7 is broken, so there are still 2 First 10 Years page numbers to find, plus reference 9 is broken so one page number for Inside Story is needed.
• 1988 - I fixed some reference errors as above but otherwise fine. Removed Inside Story from bibliography as not used - book came out the year before anyway!
• 1989 - Another Handbook reference was replaced with First 10 Years but again that's fine if the information is there. Only Brake's book is used so I removed the other 2 from the bibliography and fixed reference errors. Reference 6 and 7 are broken, so 5 page numbers needed for First 10 Years and 1 for EE Handbook (restore Handbook to the bibliography if you need to still use this book).

Note that from 1990 onwards I haven't checked if anything needs page numbers yet, so there may be work that needs to be done in those. I could have a quick scan, but I would still need to do my final read throughs before I can say the pages are ready! We're still going to wait for everything to be ready before moving anything over, right? — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 13:04, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

Hi, I was only searching cite book but theres more than I thought, so thanks for pointing them out.

• 1985 - Ref 4 is < ref name="insidestory"/ > these are refs we have not got page numbers for but will try other books for sources.
• 1987 - I have fixed the refs.
• 1989 - I have had to move the reference as it does not cover Lyanne Compton being axed from her role of Junior's friend Melody. Also I have replace the EE Handbook with the Programme guide as there was no trace reference in the handbook.

Yeah we will wait for full completion

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 17:51, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

If Inside Story covers the references needed in 1985 then use that if it's easier to find than in the other books. Don't go out of your way to try to use more books just for the sake of it.

So 1986 and 1988 are fine, 1987 you have fixed, 1989 is fixed, I just had to fix the author's name. So just 1985 in that list to do. But I checked the ones beyond 1989 and there are still more to find. Your efforts are very much appreciated. — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 16:57, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: Hi just to let you know "EastEnders:The Inside Story" and "Albert Square & me" are now both available to read on The Internet Archive for free.

• https://archive.org/details/isbn_9780563206019

• https://archive.org/details/albertsquareme00jaff

Hope you are both enjoying the festive season. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 22:25, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: Thanks. Only one person can read them at a time. — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 22:42, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: I didn't know that I have returned it now, I just wanted to search some terms to find some refs. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 22:46, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: That's brilliant. Good find! And a Happy New Year to you too. Soaper1234 - talk 12:26, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

Repeats on Drama Channel

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: Hi just in case you didn't see this article

• http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/eastenders/news/a859769/eastenders-uktv-drama-airing-classic-episodes-from-august/

Repeats of EE will begin in August on the Drama Channel. I am not sure if they will be in the single episode or omnibus format. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

This should be good. Hope it helps the episode search. Soaper1234 - talk 20:56, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Could help write up episode summaries, but I won't be able to watch them myself. If it's not already there don't forget to mention this in the main EastEnders article. — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 12:09, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

As you probably noticed, I am able to watch them myself :-) — ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 22:30, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

Useful articles in Old Newspapers

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234:

I have been looking through The Times online archive 1985 for EastEnders articles, some of them maybe useful.

• https://www.flickr.com/photos/30536759@N07/sets/72157704177042975/

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 22:03, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

BBC Annual Report & Accounts

Hi some information that might be useful.

The Annual Report & Accounts 1986

• https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yw9ZAAAAYAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=EastEnders

BBC Annual Report & Accounts 1987/88

• https://books.google.co.uk/books?num=10&id=8ofCRV7UuXYC&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=eastenders

The Annual Report & Accounts 1990

• https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=IxizJ50VflMC&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=EastEnders

The Annual Report & Accounts 1991

• https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ZyNTJmW1TF4C&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=EastEnders

BBC Annual Review 1992

• https://books.google.co.uk/books?num=10&id=rvG_LIgEVCIC&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=eastenders

The Annual Report & Accounts 1992

• https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=YO-RFHtFOQwC&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=EastEnders

Annual Report and Accounts 1998

• https://books.google.co.uk/books?num=10&id=PHmQAE2QvkcC&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=eastenders

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 14:02, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

iTunes

@Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234: This might be useful: I found on iTunes four EastEnders box sets containing full episodes. I found these Christmas specials first, and then I launched iTunes and searched for more and found two sets of "iconic exits" and one set of "Kalfie" (Kat and Alfie) episodes. Could be added to the lists or any individual episode articles or drafts? — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 13:14, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

I found the links for the others:

• Iconic exits
• Iconic exits part 2
• Kalfie

— 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 13:19, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

They are also available on Youtube and Amazon

• https://eastenders.fandom.com/wiki/VHS/DVD#Digital

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:46, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Great. As episode 1 is in there, you might want to add it to your episode 1 draft. — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 14:50, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: Hi I have just noticed the EE boxsets are on sale on Amazon. I have grabbed all four not sure you would want to.

EastEnders Digital Episodes Sets, discounted each set usually costs £14.99 now £4.99. If you buy all of them it would have cost £59.96 now its just £19.96 saving of £40. Not sure how long the discount is on.

Eastenders Iconic Exits - Part 1

• https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/video/detail/B07GZ5VQGH/

Eastenders Iconic Exits - Part 2

• https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/video/detail/B07GZ7Q8F9/

Eastenders Kalfie

• https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/video/detail/B07GZ5F293/

Eastenders Christmas Specials

• https://www.amazon.co.uk/EastEnders-1992-93-076-A0818/dp/B07GZ5PZ37

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 16:30, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Character counts/MOS:TVCAST

Following a discussion about this in relation to Casualty articles at my talk page, it has come to my attention that character counts are not permitted per MOS:TVCAST. In particular the rule states, The cast listing should not contain an episode count, e.g. (6 episodes) or (episodes 1–6), to indicate the number of episodes in which the actor or character appeared. Will this affect the character counts in the episode lists or is there are a way around this? Soaper1234 - talk 17:23, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Kelvin 101: Forgot to ping! Soaper1234 - talk 13:50, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Oh no! — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 14:55, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

@Soaper1234: Hi I am not sure about this, I am sure User:AnemoneProjectors is more knowledgeable on this subject. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 20:38, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

@Soaper1234: I think it will affect it but I'm still going to keep doing it until I decide not to. But even so I will keep my own record. — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 21:10, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Good idea. Just thought I'd give you the heads up. Soaper1234 - talk 21:40, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

1989 Prison Storylines

Should it be noted on 1989 page that the Prison Stories for Series Written by Bill Lyons and Tony Holland? I am not sure how you would list this as technically the Prison scenes were in most episodes up to 16 February 1989, when Den was released.

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 18:53, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: You mean that the prison scenes had different writers to rest of those episodes? I did wonder about this because they were all filmed separately and inserted later, so I thought they must have had a separate writer. I'm way way way behind on Classic EE but was this reflected in the credits? — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 09:28, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Sorry for late reply, I have checked Prison scenes run from 13 September 1988 - 16 February 1989. I believe this is mentioned in the books 10 years/handbook. I do remember seeing them credited on screen for the prison scenes but I am not sure which episode they were credited on, I will have to check. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 18:47, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: No problem. If there's a source for this of they're credited in the episodes themselves, that would be great. They could be added as writers for those episodes with notes to say it was only those scenes. — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 19:12, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Hi I have quickly flicked through all the prison episodes using my Jogg shuttle (a good investment would have taken ages without it) they are credited on Episode 419 (9 February 1989) its says -

• Prison Stories for the Series Written by Billy Lyons and Tony Holland.
• See https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/eastenders/images/4/46/Prison_Stories_%289_February_1989%29.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20190803192527

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:30, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

Although I know the date range is 13 September 1988 - 16 February 1989, I can't say every episode has prison scenes without further checking. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 19:32, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: That's excellent, I would say definitely add a note to the ones you know have prison scenes. You can take as much time as you need if you're happy to do this. — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 20:04, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:Yeah I don't mind, I have calculated its 42 episodes. Would this be added as an actual note like the broadcast times or as footnote as there is quite a few of them? Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:10, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

I was thinking a footnote, a bit like this:

#	No. in year	Original air date	Directed by	Written by	Viewers (millions)
419	12	9 February 1989 (1989-02-09)	Terry Iland	Tony McHale / Bill Lyons and Tony Holland	19.96

References

But maybe a note in the shortsummary would be better since Lyons and Holland aren't actually credited as episode writers. I'm not really sure which is best. — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 21:26, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors:I noticed on some pages there is a line separating the summaries /notes and film locations. If we used that then it would separate the summaries and the notes but would also leave space for future summaries for older episodes.

#	No. in year	Original air date	Directed by	Written by	Viewers (millions)
419	12	9 February 1989 (1989-02-09)	Terry Iland	Tony McHale	19.96
Summary Bill Lyons and Tony Holland wrote the Prison Stories for the series.

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 08:46, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: I brought the line in in most recent pages but I think it's a good way to separate fiction from the real world (I saw it on another page once and liked it), so I plan to put the line in for all notes like this. If there's no summary but just notes, the line can be left out. Thanks :-) — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 08:52, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

Episode 1 and 2 scripts

@Kelvin 101 and Soaper1234: Matthew Robinson has released part of the original scripts - https://walfordweb.com/things-found-at-the-bottom-of-a-cupboard-t355278.html - note that neither of them show a title. Should we take this to mean that "Poor Old Reg" is not the title of episode 1? — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 09:28, 8 July 2019 (UTC) (Remembering that Rob Gittins said that "Tony Holland, the original creator of EastEnders insisted that all the writers title their episode, despite that title never appearing on screen.") — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 09:30, 8 July 2019 (UTC) I shall link back to the section #Episode Names as a reminder. I probably should have posted this there but I was too lazy to find it. — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 09:33, 8 July 2019 (UTC) @AnemoneProjectors:

Hi yeah good spot I have only ever seen a camera script page for the early episodes. I would remove the title, we could pose the question about episode titles to Matthew. He might be willing to tell is how it works. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 11:37, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

I don't know if you want to completely remove it or move it to questionable? User:Kelvin_101/EastEnders_Episode_Titles

(edit conflict) @Kelvin 101: I just posed the question about episode 1 in that thread, just to see if I get a response. Leave it where it is for now... and just wait a bit, otherwise you'll be moving it and either moving it back or removing it. — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 11:47, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors and Kelvin 101: I think it is worth noting that these were draft scripts and use the old show name "East 8". Soaper1234 - talk 18:07, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

@Soaper1234: I realise that, a title could have been added later. Well, it says they are rehearsal scripts so maybe they were used, would they really have retyped it just to change it from East 8 to EastEnders? But still, as the episode titles were not used, perhaps they weren't actually named on the scripts as they have been with more recent named episodes. I just noticed the production code LDLG100K matches with what Kelvin previously found on Getty Images, which is good. — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 10:03, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Episodes on BBC Three

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234:

Hi I just remembered that EastEnders episodes premiered on BBC Three for two weeks.Should these really be the actual broadcast dates.

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/search/0/20?adv=1&mf=2&mt=2&order=asc&q=%40title+EastEnders+-revealed&svc=9371578&tt=21%3A00&yf=2003&yt=2003#search

Episode 2464-2471

• Monday 10 February 2003 20.30
• Tuesday 11 February 2003 20.00
• Thursday 13 February 2003 20.00
• Friday 14 February 2003 20.30
• Monday 17 February 2003 20.30
• Tuesday 18 February 2003 20.00
• Thursday 20 February 2003 20.00
• Friday 21 February 2003 20.30

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 16:10, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: In my opinion, I'd say leave it with the 'proper' transmission date, but add a note saying first broadcast on BBC Three on *date* at *time* because *reason*. Soaper1234 - talk 18:28, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

I agree, just put it as notes. — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 02:29, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

2021 Episode Numbers

@AnemoneProjectors and Soaper1234: Hope you both had a good new year. I was contacted on Wikia by a moderator that the mention they have seen a post of a writer on twitter and the numbering doesn't match our system. Lee Saczak wrote Tuesday 5 January 2021, we have it down a Episode 6197 but his script says 6198.

See post https://twitter.com/LSaczak/status/1346530732760592385

I am not sure what has happened, after New Year Day episode it seems to have jumped three numbers instead of two?

Radio Times - 31 December 2020 (Episode 6193) https://www.radiotimes.com/tv-programme/e/mzyd5m/eastenders--episode-6193/

Radio Times - 1 January 2020 (Episode no number given) https://www.radiotimes.com/tv-programme/e/mz2w5f/eastenders--01012021/

Radio Times - 4 January 2020 (Episode 6197) https://www.radiotimes.com/tv-programme/e/m2g24x/eastenders--episode-6197/

Radio Times - 5 January 2020 (Episode 6198) https://www.radiotimes.com/tv-programme/e/m2k8fj/eastenders--episode-6198/

Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 15:36, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

@Kelvin 101: In User:AnemoneProjectors/List of EastEnders episodes (2021), I have 5 January as episode 6198 and 1 January as 6194–6196, i.e. a triple episode (3x20 mins), I checked Radio Times in December. The main EastEnders article should follow that. — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 16:55, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors: Oh yeah I forgot all about the 20 minutes episodes that makes perfect sense thanks Kelvin 101 (talk)

@Kelvin 101: I just pretty much assumed that as RT had skipped three numbers with just one episode that it must be a triple. But I guess that's all it can be. Although they didn't do it for Christmas day but that was more like 2x25 mins as the episode was 53 minutes but New Year's Day was 59. I'm glad to see that the writer's tweet confirms the correct number for 5 January anyway. — 🌼📽️AnemoneProjectors💬 17:32, 9 January 2021 (UTC)