Talk:Trails (series)

Including the Cold Steel/Crossbell games

Should this article be moved to just "Trails (video game series)" and have content from the Crossbell and Cold Steel games? I don't really see any reason not, as they all share a connected universe/characters/story under the "Kiseki" label. If so, then perhaps mention the two spinoffs as well? ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 01:49, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, I wasn't quite sure where to draw the line with this. I originally created the article as a means of sorting things out with the trilogy. First Chapter was written in a very confusing manner, where it interchangeably discussed First Chapter and the whole Trails in the Sky trilogy. (Probably a side effect of the fact that only First Chapter had been translated into English at that point.) My writing of the article was my means of reworking the First Chaper article to only be about that, where this is where I spilt out the more generalized info, and the more complicated release info fir each entry, which is of course noteworthy for the crazy timeframes involved. Anyways, I wasn't sure where to draw the line - add too many of the Trails games and I feared it'd become to redundant to The Legend of Heroes. Also, the trilogy currently covered are direct sequels with largely the same casts. Cold Steel takes place in the same fictional world, and have some character crossovers, but largely revolve around different casts. There are zero playable characters in common with Trails in the Sky and the first two Cold Steel games if I'm recalling correctly. The connections between Sky and Cold Steel is kind of like comparing the separate Star Wars trilogies, like Episodes 1-3 to 4-6, if that help. Obviously connected, but also far more connected to their respective trilogy entries. Sergecross73 msg me 02:28, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oops, wasn't aware you replied before I started to make the edits. Your points are all valid, but do you still think that this shouldn't be a general "Trails" landing article? It won't have plot information or anything, and it shouldn't make the Legend of Heroes page redundant as that includes games outside of the Trails games (it's really a mess to explain to new readers, with sub-series after sub-series...) Failing that, the Cold Steel games could have their own series page as it now has four games total, with three of them having articles. I'll revert back for the time being. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 23:14, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Sergecross73 coming back to this, but I still feel like a proper Trails/Kiseki article could work. All this current article includes is a basic summary for the three games, a small paragraph about an anime adaptation, and sales; nothing that really warrants this being separated. Yes, they are considered separate arcs, but the games are still the following the same overarching narrative. A well-written Kiseki article would not be any more redundant than Persona is to Megami Tensei, in my opinion. I'll get started on a draft in the meantime, unless you still staunchly oppose one. I'll also work on splitting Zero and Ao into their own articles (although they may simply remain as stubs). ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 04:09, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Feel free to go for it. I staunchly oppose its deletion. But expansion/reworking, I dont mind you doing. Sergecross73 msg me 13:11, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Seems like another editor got to it before me, but I suppose I'll work off this. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 23:51, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Sergecross73, any thoughts on it so far? I feel like there's a better way to summarize all of these games than how it is currently done. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 21:32, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

I have no problem with it now, but I don’t oppose it if you want to rework things either. Just as long as its not deleted I’m content. Sergecross73 msg me 23:02, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Delete what exactly? ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 23:10, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

The article itself. Like sending it to AFD or a merge discussion. Sergecross73 msg me 00:49, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

I've now got the article around the state I first envisioned it being years ago. What other suggestions do you have to improve it? ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 13:47, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Sergecross73 I'll probably nominate it as a GA soon, which would improve the article through feedback if nothing else. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 19:22, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

Wow, it's looking great. Looks very similar to the renovated versions of the Tales of or Xenoblade series articles. Sergecross73 msg me 19:28, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

Fantastic, I'll start the nomination sometime later this week. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 21:06, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Sourcing

A bit busy at the moment to fix it myself, but FYI, Esterior is a fan site. It's basically the "Sonic Retro/Stadium" of the Trails world. So it really should not be used as a source on Wikipedia. Sergecross73 msg me 20:23, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

• I'm pretty sure we're going to have to find Japanese sources for those. But for now I removed the Esterior links and replaced with a CN tag. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 18:28, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

I don't have time to do a full GAN review at the moment, but...

...felt like I ought to give some comments that I would've left in the review, since I care about this series and would hate to see it fall short of reaching GA.

• A non-English anniversary logo does not seem ideal as identification at the top of the page. Is there another option that better represents the series as a whole? Relatedly, can we illustrate gameplay with a screenshot?
  • I agree but the series doesn't really have a common logo or wordfont or something that gets shared between games like mostseries. A gameplay screenshot of one of the Sky games and then one of the 3D ones (Cold Steel or Kuro) to show how the series has progressed visually would be great though. I'd love for the article to include more real-world based photos too, such as merchandise or a cosplay, but was unable to find any that were free to use.
• Having a separate heading for every single game does not seem like the best way of presenting this information given how this is not titled List of Trails games (should that exist?), how there's roughly one trillion (or 14) Trails games and counting, and how most have individual articles. Maybe do sections for each arc that more briefly lists and summarizes the games in them?
  • I don't think a separate article is warranted for now but is something to watch out for in the future, especially if we have 2 or 3 more arcs after Kuro. But we can definitely condense the section by arcs/subseries without omitting much as they all have their own articles now.
• I definitely think we should be able to have development and localization sections - I haven't specifically gone out of my way to look for sources for this series, but I've read several interviews with the developers and the localization team(s), so there doesn't seem to be a reason for there not to be one.
  • The majority of the localization stuff is regarding Xseed and the Trails in the Sky games (mostly 1 and 2), but that would still fit here. How would a development section work on a series article though?
• The reception section seems very short for the series' length and popularity and compared to other similar game series articles. Alexandra^IDV 20:09, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
  • Agreed, but I tried to keep it brief and wanted to avoid citing claims from individual authors. However, anything other than the series' worldbuilding and scope, like how its gameplay and music are viewed, would help expand it.

I'll address this when I get some freetime (early next week maybe) unless somebody beats me to it. It's also nice to know there's another experienced WP:VG member that is both aware and a fan of the series. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 20:11, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

• @Alexandra IDV: I've started to make progress on these and while doing so, thought maybe we could do match what the List of Ys media and List of Dragon Quest media articles do and include all the Trails mangas, anime, and other releases on top of the games. I'll start a draft on it in a bit and see how it looks before I fully commit to it. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 16:08, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

  I've added the main series and spinoffs to a draft on my sandbox. Once I add the animes, mangas, and Japanese mobile games (with citations of course), I think it should be good enough for a standalone article. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 20:14, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

  It's now live at List of Trails media but still missing several mangas, audio dramas, and the soundtracks. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 13:12, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Trails (series)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk · contribs) 21:10, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

GA review

starting the review. It may take me some time to finish the review.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 21:10, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

LEAD

• The Lead is well written but very short. Considering the size of the article, it may be a good idea to just briefly mention the multiple arcs and how many games they span combined.
• Avoid using the word "Some" to describe a small amount or just an amount in general. By its definition, it is a vague amount. I would recommend replacing it with "Multiple" or "a number of" or even "Several". The word "Several" has a more specific definition (more than 2, but not considered many).

GAMEPLAY

• I don't see any flaws, but the one thing I would like a citation for the part where it mentions the games are usually divided into chapters. It seems inconsequential, I know, but if no source mentions it, we can just get rid of it.

ARC AND GAMES

• I'm not sure if it's necessary to label it into "Arcs", I won't count it against it for now.
• One thing I'm trying to verify is the common English name for these Arcs. So far, I do see official terms for Calvard and Crossbell at first glance, i have not seen official names for Liberl arc and the Erebonia arc. Maybe I'm not digging hard enough, but it would be nice to have the official term or at least the common name of these arcs being cited.
• I'm not entirely sure each Spin-off deserves a subsection considering how short they are. I would group them into one or two paragraphs.

RECEPTION

• pending.

I provided edits following your suggestions. The only thing I would add is there is no need for an "official" name for the arcs, seeing as their locations are brought up by sources when discussing the arcs, as seen here. I could find additional citations that do the same if needed. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 20:42, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

I think the Kotaku source is a good source and should be used when referring to the name of the arcs. If the Arc section going to be named after these arcs, I highly recommend they be added to the prose as well. The lead sentence under "Games" may not be necessary, considering each arc for the most part already mentions the total of the games it contains. There's one sentence in "Liberl Arc" section that makes mention of "Vignettes". Is there any source that uses that specific verbiage, or is close to what it's referring to? My one last concern is the Reception section. I don't know if this is asking too much, but is it possible to give summaries of how each "arc" was received? I may not strike it against GA in this case considering there is a lot of sources that do make mention of the series overall, but it will definitely help.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 21:57, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

There are a few sources that directly mention the 3rd having vignettes; I thought I had cited that but apparently not. I could also add a summary of each arc to the reception section, but it may take me a bit since most reviews focus either on specific games or the entire series. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 07:53, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

How much time do you estimate you'll need? I'm willing to hold onto the GA review for a few more weeks for a quick review summary. Trails in the Sky and Trails of Cold Steel arcs are going to be the most content-heavy (I suspect) considering those are the only ones that released in English.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 04:01, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

If it's needed for it to pass GAN then I could have it done by this weekend. Reviews of the upcoming Trails from Zero could help a lot on the Crossbell side. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 22:21, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Ok. I'll wait for the updates and review them accordingly. It's pretty close.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 17:19, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

@Blue Pumpkin Pie It has been WAY past 7 days, Any update on this review? PerryPerryD Talk To Me 14:57, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

@PerryPerryD: In this situation I think I'll have to fail too. Considering that the series is divided into arcs, I don't think the coverage is broad enough in the reception section. It's difficult to understand if there is a distinct development between arcs too. Once we at least get reception on the arcs, then I think it should be renominated.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 17:49, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Well after the fact, I know, but this Eurogamer source (https://www.eurogamer.net/falcom-vs-the-fans) seems to have a lot of info on how the arcs are split up at least. Leaving it here in case it could be helpful in the future. Sergecross73 msg me 14:29, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Not to be confused with

I noticed theres a disambig notice, however "Tales" and "Trials" dont appear to be common mistakes or related words at all, I do not see the point of this distinction. PerryPerryD Talk To Me 14:44, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

I tend to degree, I don't think they're common enough if a misconception to need a shout-out like that. Sergecross73 msg me 14:52, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Anecdotal evidence, but I will say that every single one of my friends that I've mentioned the series to, that hasn't personally played it, has then gone on to utter the words "Trials in the Sky" to me at some point. I would be okay with removing "Tales" and keeping "Trials".--Alexandra^IDV 20:07, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Characters having their own pages

Do y'all think that some of the series' characters are notable enough to have their own pages? HassanTNTA (talk) 15:21, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

I'd love it if they were, but I haven't noticed any characters getting much third party reliable source coverage outside of the context of the games. I imagine Estelle or Rean are most likely ones if any were possible. Sergecross73 msg me 15:24, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, unfortunately. A standalone List of Trails characters also seems like it would be a nightmare due to the sheer size of the cast, just check the the respective Japanese Wiki article. Maybe this could work if limited to the main protagonists and kept to basic summaries only? ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 04:00, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, we could make pages for Estelle and Rean. HassanTNTA (talk) 16:19, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Well, like I said, in my opinion, they seem to be the most likely to be possible because they're some of the most popular and common characters in the series. It all comes down to whether or not sources ever write articles about them though. Personally, I don't believe I've ever seen any usable websites talk about them in significant detail. (Many examples of usable and unusable sources are documented at WP:VG/S, FYI.) Sergecross73 msg me 16:27, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

You could ask for help and/or input from others at WT:VGCHAR too - that's a centralized spot where a bunch of editors who specialize in writing video game articles collaborate. Sergecross73 msg me 16:29, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Alright, I posted a topic on that page to create pages for Estelle and Rean. HassanTNTA (talk) 22:49, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

I haven't really seen anything either other than maybe Estelle being included on a "best female protagonist" poll. We seem to share a minority opinion here, but that should be used to supplement an existing article and not form its basis. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 22:50, 21 August 2024 (UTC)