Talk:First-person adventure

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I archived this page, because the old discussion was redundant regarding the new contents.--Wormsie 11:59, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

3D Monster Maze

I don't think text adventures at least are a decendant of 3D Monster Maze, as text adventures were the first computer game genre ever. (Colossal Cave was released a few years before 3D Monster Maze, in 1976.) As the article needs a bit expanding, mentioning 3D Monster Maze is probably in order, but for example, the first Sierra games started from the "hey, let's add graphics to text adventure games" -idea... Or do you information that shows otherwise?--Wormsie 11:59, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

You are quite right. My wording is ambiguous, sorry about that. I meant that the FPA/FPS 3D games are all its descendants in the sense that it was the first. Sierra games central idea, indeed, is adding a 3D GUI on top of the text quests, however, they aren't rendered as FPA from the graphics point of view, are they? (I.e., you look at the scene as a spectator, slightly above and in front of it, and the characters (Sir Graham etc.) walk around the scene --- like in a theatre). BACbKA 15:43, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

You're right, sorry! Most (all?) of Sierra's adventure games are indeed in third person, not first person. (At least graphically, I can't remember if in King's Quest the player character is addressed as "you" or "he"...)--Wormsie 00:50, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

The old definition versus the new definition

First of all: Personally I'd be glad to see this article to be deleted or made a redirect page. I don't think this issue is incredibly relevant - if this artcle should be about adventure games, the text should go to the article about adventure games, and if this is about action-adventures or first-person shooters, this should go to the action-adventure/FPS -article.

I originally changed the contents of this article because of the following statement which can be read in the archived discussion: "The only FPA I know about it Metroid Prime, which is definitely a console video game, and the term was, after all, first used to describe it."

However, the term first-person adventure was not used to describe Metroid Prime first: for decades, a first-person adventure was an adventure game which was narrated in first person. As the adventure genre is no longer as popular as it was ten years ago, people don't know of this classification, and the term is being used to describe games that can't be said to belong to the adventure game genre at all. I appreciate that, even though I don't think it's correct. Still, claiming that the term is "sometimes used" to describe adventure games in first person is factually inaccurate in my opinion - there seems to be only a handful of these modern first-person adventures for console, whereas the amount of first-person Myst-clones is huge.--Wormsie (talk) 21:29, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

I personally would support a delete or a redirect of this page. The deletion discussion resulted in no consensus... but I think that most people on both sides of the "Delete/keep" divide agreed that a merge or redirect would be appropriate. Do you know anything about deletion reviews? I would happily support you asking for a review, and as the person who originally nominated the article I would gladly support a consensus of merging or redirection.

I'm not opposed to what you say. In fact, it might very well be true. I honestly don't know. What you'll need, though, are references. The article has a handful of references that indicate the FPA as an action adventure. But if you're going to say that FPAs are graphical adventures (let alone text adventures), you're going to need some reliable research. See Wikipedia:WikiProject_Video_games/Sources#List for a list of reliable sources, according to the video games wikiproject. You might be able to find something there.

I want to help make the various video game genre articles more clear. I don't know what the strategy for this one is. I wanted to delete it, because it seemed like a BS article from both the adventure and action-adventure angles. One side had no research, the other side had scant improper research, and the article was a mess of speculation and unreliable information. But if we need to turn this into a double-article, detailing multiple uses of the same terminology, so be it. If we need to push this article one way or the other, so be it. If we need to redirect or merge, so be it. I'm willing to help you, whatever you decide: delete, merge, redirect... but I've began a rewrite in order to filter out all unreferenced material. If you're gonna start adding stuff, you'll have to find good references. If what you say is true, then they shouldn't be hard to find. Randomran (talk) 01:55, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Merging the article is simpler. From the deletion review I'd say there is no controversy in a merge: see Help:Merging and moving pages. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast (talk) 04:22, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Hey, great to avoid edit wars! :)

When it comes to references I was able to find these

• http://www.allgame.com/cg/agg.dll?p=agg&sql=7:161 "Though they may feature similar story- and inventory-based puzzle-solving, first-person adventures differ from traditional graphic adventures in the way that the game world is presented. Instead of static locations and fixed camera angles, first-person adventures allow players to explore and interact in real time, through the eyes of the main character." Then again, the examples they give sound more like action games to me, even though the description doesn't mention the word "action" at all. :P
• Adventure Gamers of course understand first person adventures as adventure games, for example in this article: http://www.adventuregamers.com/article/id,292 If you are really interested, see this thread from two years ago when people first noticed this Wikipedia article. :)
• http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AdventureGame "First Person Adventure, also called Myst-clones or 2.5D, presented prerendered 3d environments from a first-person perspective. Early examples tended to have the feel of interactive slideshows (this is a fair comparison: Myst was originally created on an early Macintosh slideshow program called Hypercard)."

If one searches a game store for "first-person adventure", one finds both games like CSI and Myst, games that are traditional adventures, and games like Metroid Prime, Deus-Ex and Half-Life 2. It doesn't look like calling an action-adventure a first-person adventure has spread very far yet, however, and first-person adventure games are still more often called just adventure games.

So, my proposal would be to change the article to a sort of disambiguation page with short descriptions, a long the lines of:

A first-person adventure game can mean

• an adventure game or a text adventure in first person
• an action-adventure or FPS in first-person

with the appropriate references. Delete is fine by me as well, it's too bad that I missed the opportunity to take part in the voting back then. :/ --Wormsie (talk) 21:36, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I would definitely support a merge. I also think the references you offer support a merge into "Graphical adventure games", rather than text adventures. There's not much reliable research that says a first person adventure is a text adventure with lots of "I" and "me" words ("I take the shoe", "I throw the shoe", "I won the game"). All the references you have offered suggest that it's all about the graphical viewpoint. In other words, first-person adventures are Myst clones. Would you agree? (As for first-person action adventures, leave that part to me -- I'll add something in the action-adventure article, and maybe the first-person shooter section too.)

I'm glad we got the signoff on the merge from the administrator! Randomran (talk) 02:44, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

First-person adventure can still mean any adventure game that is in first person. Of course most of them are Myst-clones, but not all, The Last Express being the most obvious example. For example, two first-person shooters can be very different in style (Doom is different from Half-Life). Still, there wouldn't be much to merge from this article as the adventure game article already covers first-person adventures. Agreed about that bit regarding interactive fiction.--Wormsie (talk) 21:08, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

MOS:DABMENTION

@TarkusAB I know what you mean by "too many words", but my version of the disambiguation page was not created in the way it was created because I like too many words, but to make it compliant with the MoS which prohibits, your type of "concise" (pseudo-)disambiguation. Every list entry must always start with the disambiguated term. Cheers —Alalch E. 18:38, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

(except for synonyms, and that's not the case) —Alalch E. 18:39, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

@Alalch E.: That doesn't apply here because it's not a "item appearing within other articles" as the MOS says. It's a nonsense term where the reader is probably looking for something else. TarkusAB^talk/contrib 19:01, 9 September 2023 (UTC)