Talk:Bree Van de Kamp

Bree Weston

• Bree was remarried in the series finale to Trip which is why her name should be changed to Bree Weston. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonathandonila (talk • contribs) 23:57, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Not EVERY women change their last name when they are married. And if you are going to judge on the last experience than she should have been Bree Hodge as that was her last married name. Typically women after a divorce do not revert to a former married name as she did on the show (Went from Bree Hodge back to Bree Van de Kamp) This shows the shows true intention was to give back to original name.

No where did it say she adopted her new married name. Where are you getting this information?

-*Eric*- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.38.128.40 (talk) 02:19, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

I got the info from watching the final episode of the series saying she married Trip. I just guessed she would change her name. So don't judge me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.236.233.16 (talk) 22:28, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Bree's exact age

• How do we know Bree's exact age? Cheater1908 23:46, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Revealed in "Ah, But Underneath" when Edie opens Mike's cabinet to find all of the information about the residents of Wisteria Lane. Sfufan2005 05:16, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Is the picture I put of Bree suitable, discuss. Ahadland1234

It was deescribed (episode 1x02) that "Bree (42)". In season 1, at the beginning, she had 42 years old. Michu1945 (talk) 21:43, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Change her last name?

--Her Name schould be Bree Van De Kamp-Hodge because it she told people that when they got separted, that she legally got her name hyphenate and she is now Mrs. Van de Kamp in the carrear world and Mrs. Hodge with Orsan and the everyone else she is either.----------Are y'all going to change her last name to Hodge, she married Orson. And when prompted by the detective "Mrs. Van De Kamp?", she replied "It's Hodge now".

Should it be Bree Van de Kamp Hodge since most of the time on the show she's been known as Bree Van de Kamp. It doesn't really matter but most people will remember her always be known with her first marriage surname but it doesn't matter. Sfufan2005 22:28, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree. It should be either Bree Van de Kamp Hodge or Bree Van de Kamp. Does anyone knows the official WP guideline for these kind of cases?--T-man, the wise 01:06, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

As far as I'm concerned "Bree Van de Kamp Hodge" is out of the question, since she never once has been refered to as such. I'm not sure there is any official guidelines for these cases, but imo the articles ought to be called the same name as the characters currently are named (Susan Mayer, Lynette Scavo, Bree Hodge, Gabrielle Solis and Edie Britt), and when a character change his/her last name, so should the articles. To discuss what name the character has been known under for most of the time, or what name she/he will be remebered by is, as far as I can see, original research, and thus un-wiki. Pjär80 11:34, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree with everything Pjär80 says. Van De Kamp is no longer a part of her name, and anyone searching for "Bree Van De Kamp" will be redirected to the article anyway. -Trampikey^{(talk)(contribs)} 16:09, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Mother in law

Bree has a new mother-in-law now, too, that needs to be added!

Article cleanup

I appreciate the effort that has gone into this article, but currently it's primarily a plot summary, which is against the guidelines at WP:FICTION. I recommend that the plot section be condensed down to 500-1000 words, and that links be provided to other sites with a more detailed summary. For examples of what a "good" character article is supposed to be like, please check WP:FA and WP:GA in the "Media" sections. --Elonka 13:59, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

In all due honesty, i think it makes her seem not a very likeable person.

What does????? How?  Paul  730 11:58, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Ty Grant

Surely Ty Grant should be added to the "Spouse(s)" section of Bree's bio, as an ex-fiancé. This information is given very early on in Season One (in "Ah, But Underneath"): "We sat on Skyline Drive and drank a bottle of apple wine and when we finished it, you turned to me and you said, 'If you marry me, Bree Mason, I promise to love you for the rest of my life.' And even though I was engaged to Ty Grant, and even though my father didn't like you, I said yes."

Furthermore, we meet him in "The Sun Won't Set", 2-08. With George insisting Bree should wear her engagement ring, she dances with Ty at a restaurant, and George, out of jealousy, sets fire to his car.

As ex-boyfriends and -girlfriends of the characters are listed, as well as ex-husbands and -wives who have only been mentioned in dialogue (e.g. Edie's ex-husband, Mr Roswell), it seems apt that Ty Grant should be included as well. --Pob iii 09:57, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Van de Kamp or Hodge?

This article has been renamed from Bree Hodge to Bree Van de Kamp as the result of a move request.

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was consensus to Move Keith D (talk) 22:55, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I think this article should be moved to Bree Van de Kamp. Thus this is her common name. Why should this page be moved to her uncommon name while Susan Mayer and Gabrielle Solis remain the same???? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Italian111 (talk • contribs) 21:46, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree, and am glad someone else has brought it up. Bree is better known in the media by the name she started out with in the show - Van de Kamp. Just because that's technically not her name in the show anymore is irrelevant, since Wikipedia does not deal in current continuity. Although not a definitive test, "Bree Van de Kamp" throws up considerably more Google hits than "Bree Hodge". I would support a move.  Paul  730 22:02, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I think that was a point brought up when Gabrielle's page name was being discussed. I agree with Paul, "Van de Kamp" should be the name of the article, not "Hodge". It merely gives rise to recentism.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 23:04, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes and in episode 4.06, when Danielle goes to a party as Bree shes says "I am not Danielle, I am Bree Van de Kamp Hodge. This even gives us a clue that she still goes by Van de Kamp. (Italian111 00:44, 3 December 2007 (UTC))

Van de Kamp is very much still a part of Bree's name. It should either be Bree Van de Kamp (as Susan Mayer was left Susan Mayer) or Bree Van de Kamp Hodge as she was referred to in episode 4.06 —Preceding unsigned comment added by TimothyBanks (talk • contribs) 19:55, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

TimothyBanks, again, you should gain consensus on the talk page before moving an article, when the move is an obviously debated one. I agree that this article should be titled Bree Van de Kamp, but not Bree Van de Kamp Hodge. Not only is Bree Van de Kamp Hodge a long name to type, she is not mainly known as that. Also, just because someone refers to her as Bree Van de Kamp Hodge, which, in her case, only happened once, does not mean that she is going by that long name, just as someone referring to Susan as Mrs. Delfino does not mean that she is using that name professionally; it means that is a legal last name for her, that's all. Since consensus seems to be to move this article to Bree Van de Kamp, I'll have it moved to that. Flyer22 (talk) 20:47, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

People keep moving this page back to Hodge. It should be Van de Kamp people. That is her common name. She is not even known as Bree Hodge. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.228.23.159 (talk) 19:22, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

You are correct. I did not even have to get this article moved away from Bree Van de Kamp Hodge before another editor moved this article back to Bree Hodge. In either case, consensus in this discussion so far is that this article should be titled Bree Van de Kamp. Flyer22 (talk) 23:53, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Flyer you just like to insult people! One page can be common name and this one can be uncommon name with you. Which is it??????????? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.228.23.159 (talk) 22:10, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Comment As stated above, the consensus seems to go with a move to Bree Van de Kamp (per Italian111,  Paul ,  BIGNOLE , TimothyBanks). I am therefore requesting admin assistance for this move --Lox (t,c) 07:43, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Use the CORRECT name instead of the popular name

I am contesting the legitimacy of the RfC. Not enough editors were involved in it to grant a real consensus. Since the second episode of season 3 Bree has been only referred to as Bree Hodge (by herself, Mary Alice, Andrew, and the Scavo boys in the supermarket episode). She herself said "it's Hodge now" to Detective Ridley in Episode 3.02. The time when she said "Van de Kamp Hodge" is just because Danielle's name is Van de Kamp. This is the ONLY instance of "Bree Van de Kamp" in a season and a half. Everyone has been calling her Bree Hodge. This situation can't be compared with the issue of Susan Mayer v. Susan Delfino because Susan has not adopted the name Delfino when Bree has adopted the name Hodge. As a huge fan of DH and of Bree I am very annoyed that she still is referenced to as Van de Kamp while her CORRECT name is Bree Hodge. Canjth (talk) 02:38, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

I will list reasons this page should be titled a common name..

1)Nobody will search Bree Hodge.

2)Most similar pages are titled Bree Van de Kamp.

3)Uncommon or common, it will be redirected to the same page anyway.

4)It is a rule of Wikipedia

Italian111 (talk) 00:18, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

To the IP address, 72.228.23.159, that said that I just like to insult people, oh, goodness, that is not true. And I'm emphatically saying that it is not true. You just have a problem with the fact that I gave you a warning for your vandalism. Don't drag my name through the mud with lies because of your personal beef with me. Frankly, I don't have enough interaction with you to even be "after your blood" or whatever. And I hate that it seems that my "vote" to move this article to Bree Van de Kamp was not taken into consideration possibly because of your slander. As for this current discussion, yes, I am still not sure if this article should be titled Bree Van de Kamp or Bree Hodge, considering that Bree Hodge may be close to as common a name for her as Bree Van de Kamp is. When it is just a matter of the female character adopting a new name, no, I don't believe that that female's article should be moved to that new name, because the audience does not mostly know her by that new name. But when that new name becomes almost or just as common as her original name, then I don't object to her article being of that new name (or I should say current name).

I do point out, however, that despite Bree going by the last name Hodge now, there are still plenty of places (more places, at that) and instances on the internet and in the media that list her as Bree Van de Kamp. Flyer22 (talk) 05:22, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

First of all, as a huge fan of Bree, I do not use the name Van de Kamp at all - I use her real name Hodge every time I talk about her and one of my friends who is also a DH fan calls her only Bree Hodge. I suppose that those who want the article to be Bree Van de Kamp resorted to the Google test ("Bree Van de Kamp" 131,000 results, "Bree Hodge" 4,190 results). The thing is the Google test doesn't matter (see Wikipedia:Search engine test#Interpreting results) and neither does the popular use of the name Van de Kamp: her correct name is Hodge. True fans do use this name. It doesn't matter how much a name is pupular if it isn't the correct name. Canjth (talk) 02:17, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it does matter how popular a name is, which Wikipedia's common name policy points out. And the Google test does matter, but should not be used as primary evidence. True fans also call her Bree Van de Kamp, but I understand your feelings. Flyer22 (talk) 03:12, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Van de Kamp is also her correct name. I could understand your annoyance if we were insisting on calling her Bree Smith or something but her name is Bree Van de Kamp in seasons 1 and 2. It is correct. Wikipedia doesn't deal in continuity, fiction should always be dealt with in the present tense and older seasons are just as relevant as new ones. Giving favour to the name Hodge just because it's her most recent name is recentism. The Google test isn't infallible, but I think the results show that Van de Kamp is more assosiated with the character than Hodge. It's just common sense that we should use it as the article title.  Paul  730 12:17, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Susan Mayer and Gabrielle Solis' pages use common name so there is no excuse why this page should not be. It is Wikipedias policy.

Italian111 (talk) 23:34, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

She is always refered to herself as Bree Hodge shortly after his marriage. --SamuelM555 (talk) 23:36, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

So? You're completely missing the point, we are supposed to use her common name, not what a fictional character self-identifies as in current continuity.  Paul  730 23:42, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Well for me and I think for many, after her marriage, and that Orson Hodge has become a recurent character, it was obvious that it is based on Bree Hodge, as her friends, her children and the narrator Mary Alice Young named her --SamuelM555 (talk) 00:13, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

It's obvious that what was based on Bree Hodge? Sorry, I'm not really understanding that sentence. I'm not denying that she's called Hodge in current continuity in the programme, but the evidence suggests that she's best known as Van de Kamp in the real world. It's her commonly known name, and Wikipedia naming conventions say that we should use that as the title of the article. Names come and go in the chaotic world of Desperate Housewives, their current married names aren't always what they're actually known as from the real world's perspective.  Paul  730 00:21, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Susan Mayer married Mike and her page is titled as her common name. The same goes for Gabrielle Solis. What is the excuse this page should not be titled by common name? You people should really wake up and read Wikipedia's common name policy. 72.228.23.159 (talk) 02:29, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Have Susan and Gabby been explicitly referred to as Delfino and Lang like Bree has been referred to as Hodge, however? Obviously, I agree with you about naming conventions, but just pointing out a possible flaw in your argument. A better analogy might be Lois Lane and Jean Grey, whose married names in current or recent continuity do not dictate what their article titles are. She'll always be known as Lois Lane, not Lois Lane-Kent. Until you can prove that Hodge is what Bree is commonly known as, her article should be called Bree Van de Kamp.  Paul  730 02:39, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

SamuelM555, moving this article against consensus is bad practice. You should also check for double redirects when you move an article. I have moved this article back to Bree Van de Kamp, as that is consensus here on this article's talk page. You should not move this article again, unless you have consensus for it here first. Flyer22 (talk) 05:02, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

There is no consensus whatsoever that Van de Kamp is the right title for the article. There are currently 2 users that support Bree Hodge (SamuelM555 and I) vs 3 that support Bree Van de Kamp (Flyer, Paul and the anon). 60% is not a consensus at all. Comparing this issue to Susan's and Gabrielle's names is totally fallacious. Susan has never adopted the name Delfino, and Gabrielle has never adopted the name Lang (plus we know she'll get back with Carlos), while Bree has adopted the name Hodge. Using Hodge is not recentism: it has been two years that Bree has been married with Orson AND is using exclusively the name Bree Hodge. All the sources on the Internet that call her Bree Van de Kamp are probably articles and biographies that were written at the beginning of the show and have not been updated. These are outdated and don't count. (see[1],[2], [3], [4], [5]) These are plenty of sources that prove the name Bree Hodge has been widely adopted. We know Rex will not get back in the show and Hodge will remain Bree's name indefinetly. Hodge is therefore her common name. Canjth (talk) 15:49, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Bree have been using the name Hodge for two years, but she also went by Van de Kamp for two years prior to that. Do the first two seasons no longer count for anything because they're in the past? Read WP:WAF, fiction is written in the present tense, it does not go out of date. Notability does not go out of date. If she was notable as Bree Van de Kamp then, that notability does not disappear just because she's married someone else in the programme. "Hodge will remain Bree's name indefinitely" - that's a joke, how can you possibly know that? People get married, divorved, widowed, and re-married on a weekly basis on Wisteria Lane. Favouring Hodge is recentism because you prefer it solely because it's her current name. This is about fans living in the in the realm of the show; because Bree identifies as Hodge now you think that's her "correct" name. The fact is that she has been known as Van de Kamp for two years and Hodge for two years, and Van de Kamp is better known in pop culture. The Google test may be crude and imperfect, but the results are still incredibly lopsided in favour of Van de Kamp. I've yet to see any evidence for Hodge's notability in pop culture besides fans insisting "it's her real name!" because she currently identifies as Hodge in the show.  Paul  730 17:38, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Canjth, there is consensus to have this article titled Bree Van de Kamp. The other editors that "voted" aren't suddenly excluded just because they aren't commenting at this moment. The point is that the archived discussion above shows that there is consensus not to move this article to Bree Hodge and SamuelM555 was wrong to go against that. Even if it was just three against two, that is consensus. You say that "Susan has never adopted the name Delfino, and Gabrielle has never adopted the name Lang." But I must point out that even if they had adopted those names, and, really, Gabrielle did adopt the last name Lang, that doesn't change what their common names are. It doesn't mean that we should change the title of their articles. If Lois Lane were to suddenly adopt a different last name, that would not change the fact that she is largely known as Lois Lane and that Lois Lane is her common name. There's no way that we would change her article's name...and we shouldn't change the name of Bree's article until we are certain that Bree Hodge is just as common or almost as common a name for her as Bree Van de Kamp is. Those links you provided above include Wiki-based articles, which, of course, state Bree Hodge...because some person jumped to change the title of her article just because she changed her last name...just like what happened here. There are plenty of updated sources that state her as Bree Van de Kamp. And the name Bree Van de Kamp still dominates over Bree Hodge on the internet, even though you feel that doesn't count. Even the sources you feel are outdated because they state Bree Van de Kamp instead of Bree Hodge could have updated to Bree Hodge by now, so they probably just prefer the name Bree Van de Kamp. Flyer22 (talk) 19:05, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Flyer22, please cool down and ease up on the bold before you violate WP:NPA. At maximum five editors have pushed for the article to be moved to Van de Kamp. Five is not a-plenty. Also, since when is 3 against 2 considered "consensus"? Also note that I didn't move the page during the discussion. I am willing to discuss this issue until there is a consensus. Most of the sources that call her Van de Kamp are not updated. It's not like her name had been changed last week. It's been almost two years! If Lois Lane changed her name and used it for two years every week, and all the other characters of the show chenged the way they call her too, there would be no excuse not to change the title of the article to her new name. As for Gabrielle's name, even if she used Lang a few times, we know she'll come back with Carlos and re-become Solis. Bree will not get back with Rex, he's dead! Is is neither recentism not fancruft to use the name Bree Hodge. It's just her usual name since episoe 3.02 and will probably remain her name for quite a long time. It makes sense to use the name Bree Hodge. Canjth (talk) 20:38, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Canjth, I don't need to calm down and any points toward WP:NPA. Bolding names is something that I (and others) do. Nothing bad is meant by it, and I don't do it every time, just sometimes when making a point, addressing a specific editor...and mostly always in concerns to an editor new to a discussion. That is not a personal attack. I have not personally attacked you. And I am a little angry that you suggested such. I still, however, don't need to calm down. You say that "Five is not a-plenty"... I point out that five (actually six) was deemed a-plenty and consensus above. And since when is 3 against 2 considered consensus? When it is only those individuals taking part in the discussion, especially when stacked against previous (or rather current) consensus. You say that most of the sources that call her Bree Van de Kamp are not updated. Where's your proof on that? Considering that it's been almost two years that she's had the last name Hodge, then what's the reason for these sources not updating to her current name? These sources have what, been inactive, for almost two years? Perhaps they are updated, but don't see a reason to change her name to Hodge. I almost cannot believe that you stated "If Lois Lane changed her name and used it for two years every week, and all the other characters of the show chenged the way they call her too, there would be no excuse not to change the title of the article to her new name." Uh...yes, there would be an "excuse" not to change her article to the new name. Her common name would still be Lois Lane. There is nothing that can make Lois Lane not her common name, the name the world mostly knows her by. There might be a chance that Bree Hodge can be as common a name as Bree Van de Kamp, but Lois Lane will always be the common name and most common name for Lois Lane. You say that it makes sense to use the name Bree Hodge. Well, it also makes sense to use the name Bree Van de Kamp. Flyer22 (talk) 21:05, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Bree is most known as Bree Van de Kamp. In most cases, page titles dont have anything to do with current names, but common names. In most newspaper articles, magazines, DH related websites, and talk shows, they mostly refer to her as Bree Van de Kamp. Italian111 (talk) 20:19, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment - As closing admin I note the request for move was open for 18 days, during which 5 people commented on the move. We cannot second guess the opinion of those who do not comment, apart from the assumption that they are indifferent, we have to go by those who do voice their opinion. As the move was open for longer than the normal 5 day period and there was no significant voices against the move then that was the consensus at that point in time. Keith D (talk) 23:59, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

So, why is the page titled Bree Hodge if the consensus was for Van de Kamp? Or did I totally misread? --Marc ^Talk 01:14, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Because editor AdamDeanHall completely went against consensus or either didn't check this talk page to see that such a move is not consensus. I moved it back. This article should not be moved again...unless consensus deems it so. Flyer22 (talk) 07:50, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Your "consensus" is fading, Flyer. Three people have voiced serious opposition to naming this article with the old name. I understand what you're meaning by saying it has to be titled with the common name, but if you search for a few examples, you will see than when a name is changed, the title of the article is usually changed. See Rogers Centre. It still is commonly known as SkyDome but the article uses the correct name. Same for RMS Titanic - have you ever heard someone say that? No, but it is the correct name. Not enough? Think about Dolphin Stadium, still popularly known as Joe Robbie Stadium or Pro Player Stadium, and about AT&T Park, still popularly called Pac Bell Park. Have you ever heard about the Reliant Astrodome? Probably not. It still is called only Astrodome but we use the new (correct) name. When a name is changed, the article title is also changed. The common name policy is just for cases like Cat which will be called by the common name instead of the correct name which is Felis silvestris catus. There's a huge diference. Canjth (talk) 22:34, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Susan Mayer, Gabrielle Solis...it just makes more sense for it to remain Van de Kamp. Your reasoning for Cat applies here too. It's more likely to be called by the common name, which is Van de Kamp. I don't see the huge difference other than one is not....a cat. --Marc ^Talk 04:25, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Canjth, it's not "my consensus", it is consensus, and it isn't fading. It's the consensus here on this article's talk page, by even another user, Marc, agreeing that it should stay Bree Van de Kamp, and it's consensus by Wikipedia policy. The most recent user to change this article to Bree Hodge again (which I reverted) did not voice anything, but rather acted against consensus and with a total lack of regard for other editors' feelings. And, no, when a name is changed, the title of the article here at Wikipedia is not usually changed. The examples you cited only mean that we are more obligated to change the name of companies, buildings, or objects at times, but certainly not all of the time. I mean, yes, if Taco Bell started calling itself Taco Shell, we'd have to change the name, or maybe not (I'll explain in the next line), but that's completely different. There would be a good chance that the article Taco Bell would still exist here on Wikipedia...while we have a different article called Taco Shell. Sort of like the UPN and The WB articles still exist here at Wikipedia, even though they are both now known as The CW. The same cannot be done in the case of this article, or rather should not be done in the case of this article, because it's entirely different. We won't have two articles on this character, where one is titled Bree Van de Kamp and the other is titled Bree Hodge.

And more specifically, when a name is changed, and the title of the article here on Wikipedia is changed, it is usually changed back...if it's changed fom it's common name. When someone decided to change the Britney Spears article to Britney Federline, once she married Kevin Federline, it was changed back. And it certainly wasn't halted until after her divorce from him. It was changed before that because the name Britney Spears is undoubtedly her common name, and thus it is her correct name, no matter who she is married to. I'm not saying that I feel that the name Bree Van de Kamp is so much more Bree's common name than Bree Hodge is, but I do believe that it is more common, and also the more notable name of the two, thus this article should stay under that name. Flyer22 (talk) 05:20, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Marc, for the one hundreth time, this naming dispute can by no way be compared to Gabrielle's and Susan's names. Susan has not adopted the name Delfino and Gabrielle is going to get back with Carlos. However, Bree has adopted the name Hodge and will not get back with Rex. There is a huge difference. How many times will I have to say it again? And this issue is not similar to Cat vs. Felis silvestris catus at all. It is more like Reliant Astrodome vs. Astrodome. The common name is Astrodome, but we have to use the correct name, Reliant Astrodome. The stadium is subject to naming rights that we have to respect, common name or not. In spite of this, I think the naming rights of Bree go to Bree herself, who refers to herself as Hodge now (and has done so for 2 years). Flyer, sorry for not being able to interpret your comment because I'm no Britney Spears fan, so I don't know if she used the name Federline or not, but if she and her fans had used exclusively the name Federline for an extended period of time, it should have been changed to the new name. See this fan site, [6], it clearly shows that fans do call her Hodge. So we should do like what has been dome with Reliant Astrodome and Rogers Centre. These cases are very similar to what we are discussing right now.

Oh and by the way, another user was bold and moved the article to its correct title without going through gigabytes of discussion. (which got the page move-protected) That shows there is serious opposition to using the outdated "Van de Kamp" name. Canjth (talk) 01:56, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Fiction does not date in the way you're implying. Per WP:WAF, all fiction should be described in the present tense, and per WP:RECENTISM, being recent doesn't make something more important. An episode which aired years ago should be treated with the same importance as one which aired last week, because for somebody watching that ep on DVD or reruns or whatever, that particular episode is the present, not the past. If you watch season 1, Bree is called Van de Kamp, that moment can be relived as many times as you want, it doesn't go away. So what makes her name in season 4 any more important than the one she has in season 1? If anything, her season 1 name is the more important one since that's what she was originally known as, that how she was originally created. The opinion of fans is irrelevant here since they're not reliable sources, and Wikia is hardly a reliable source either. The serious opposition to the name Van de Kamp is coming from recentist fans who are living in the fictional universe of the show. It doesn't matter if Bree identifies as Hodge now, cos I can easily stick on a season 1 DVD and she'll identify as Van de Kamp. It's fiction, what matters is what she's known by in the real world. The name Hodge has not established more notability than Van de Kamp, and until it does, the original name should stay.  Paul  730 02:31, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Canjth, I've basically stated all I have to state on this subject. You don't have to be a Britney Spears fan to understand the example I gave you or common name policy. Her fans would not have used "exclusively the name Federline for an extended period of time"...because that is not her common name. And even if they had, that would not make Federline her common name to where her article should be moved to that. And more importantly, Bree is not exclusively called Bree Hodge...by either all of her fans or all of press. I don't see your examples as the same in concerns to this fictional character article at all. People keep moving this article? So what. Doesn't show any strong opposition to this name to me. People kept moving the Eva Longoria article to Eva Longoria Parker. Doesn't mean that there's strong opposition to her article being titled Eva Longoria. All that means is that the minute a woman marries a man, some users on Wikipedia feel that they are doing the right thing by changing that woman's article title. Well, I don't agree with that. And neither does Wikipedia policy. All we can do now is wait and see what more editors here have to say about moving this artcle to Bree Hodge or not. Flyer22 (talk) 02:38, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh yes, when the move protection expires, people will keep moving this article to its legitimate title. And the difference is that I will do it too. It's not a case of "a minute a woman marries a man", it has been two seasons! There is a precedence shown by the list of baseball stadiums for which we use the correct names. If you want to leave this article at Bree Van de Kamp per "common name", then you should move Reliant Astrodome to Astrodome, Dolphin Stadium to Joe Robbie Stadium, and Rogers Centre to SkyDome and so on. Up to now, I've been a good Wikipedian. I didn't move the article against "consensus" and I exposed my rationale on the talk page in this discussion. But I've done my part. A little bit more and we could have made it to WP:LAME. There are other people who also understand that the correct title is Bree Hodge, but for some unknown reason they didn't voice their rationale here. It doesn't mean that they don't exist. Count on us to give back her correct name to Bree when the move protection expires. Canjth (talk) 02:07, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Changing the name against consensus just means we'll change it back. I'm sure edit warring will be a constructive solution to the problem (note sarcasm). There is a difference between using a full name and a completely different name. Your examples of RMS Titanic and Astrodome, for example. Technically, Bree alone is the character's most common name. She's best known in pop culture as "Bree from Desperate Housewives", we just use a surname because it's more professional and complete way of disambiguating the word "Bree". As for something like a building or stadium or something which changes name... I would assume WP:COMMONNAME would still apply but in any case it's a flawed analogy because it's not fictional. As I explained in detail above, fiction does not date like a building does. It's timeless. You keep referring to "Hodge" as her "correct" name but how is it anymore correct than "Van de Kamp"? Her name is Van de Kamp in seasons 1 - 2, and Hodge in seasons 3 - 4. The early seasons haven't disappeared, they can be relived as many times as you want, and yet you seem to think they don't count anymore because they're not the most recent story? You fail to provide sources for why Hodge is more widely used per WP:COMMONNAME, you just keep going on rants about baseball stadiums. How can we help you understand that being current doesn't mean being "correct" per Wikipedia naming conventions.  Paul  730 02:51, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

You know Canjth, any admin that stumbles upon your comments would probably assume that you are annoucing that you (and "everyone else" are going to be disruptive to this article because you disagree with the consensus of the page. You basically acknowledge that the second the protection is removed you plan to engage in edit warring over the name of the article. Personally, I think the article is already at the correct title, as the character was created with that name. It's the name she started with, and it's a name fans know. It's like arguing canon for an article in Wikipedia....Wikipedia doesn't care about canon, it cares about history. Historically, she was created as "Bree Van de Kamp"...it was only through story arcs that she became married and changed her name.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 03:16, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Canjth, it is a matter of "the minute a woman marries a man" for some users on Wikipedia. Anyway, I still don't have much more to say on this subject. Paul and Bignole have summed it up perfectly. Flyer22 (talk) 08:06, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Folks, I protected the page to allow time for you to discuss the matter and come to a consensue. If people just want to get their own way as soon as the protection is removed then it will have to be made permanent. Please discuss this in a WP:CIVIL manner and attempt to come to a consensus. Keith D (talk) 10:24, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

We have, Keith. A consensus that has not changed. Flyer22 (talk) 10:31, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Hillary Rodham Clinton's common name is Hillary Clinton... but we use her correct name. The common name policy doesn't prevail on everything else, not even on common sense.

However, may I suggest that a possible title for the article could be Bree (Desperate Housewives)? This has been done with Lois (Malcolm in the Middle). I still thing it sould be Bree Hodge but it would still be better than using a name that she doesn't have anymore. Canjth (talk) 23:31, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Common name policy does prevail, in the cases it's supposed to. Hillary's article was titled Hillary Clinton. There a reason it was moved to Hillary Rodham Clinton. Do the research and see why. And, jeez, just because her full name is Hillary Rodham Clinton doesn't make that name any more her correct name than Hillary Clinton is. I mean, of course, Hillary Clinton is her correct name. They both are, just one is more common than the other. While we aren't using the most common name for her, there is clearly a good reason why that is (or there should be). There are bound to be some articles on Wikipedia that aren't at their common name, either due to some hasty editor or otherwise. It wouldn't make sense to move this article to Bree (Desperate Housewives) because there is no other article occupying either of Bree's names. We only resort to stuff like Alex Kelly (fictional character), etc., when they share the name with another or several subjects. You keep trying to get this article moved from Bree Van de Kamp, saying that it's a name that she shouldn't have. We've explained why she should have this name. And actually still does in fiction. You disagree with her article being titled under this name. It's as simple as that...at least for now. Flyer22 (talk) 03:21, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

How about Bovine spongiform encephalopathy? The common name for this is Mad cow disease... I've provided tons of examples to prove that the common name policy neithe prevails on using the correct name nor does it prevail on common sense. Bree has been called exclusively Bree Hodge by all characters including herself and Mary Alice for two years so it is just common sense to use Bree Hodge. You have not provided a single good example of application of the common name policy that is also used against the name a person or character uses to refer to themself, the correct name and against common sense. Canjth (talk) 16:10, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh my heavenly days...can't you just let this lie! There's STILL consensus on the page title!! --Marc ^Talk 16:12, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Canjth, you're still bringing this up? No, none of your so-called examples have been good, for various reasons that I've pointed out. Common name policy does make sense and it often does prevail on Wikipedia. Yes, I, as well as others here, have given good examples and reasons why this article should be called Bree Van de Kamp. Jeez, I'd forgotten all about this discussion. Like Marc has just stated, let this lie. Or rather die...unless more editors here actually show up to agree with you about this. Flyer22 (talk) 08:26, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

For the record I agree that Bree Hodge is her common name. -- Noneofyourbusiness (talk) 15:10, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

This is now summed up, Bree Van de Kamp Hodge is her legal name, "Bree" said it herself!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.95.85.219 (talk) 09:35, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Sabrina?

Err, where is it ever stated that Bree's full first name is Sabrina? Yes it may be implied with Bree being short for Sabrina but this does not make it the case. I'm changing this until someone can get some evidence! --Marc ^Talk 05:01, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Protection

I have move protected the page for awhile because of the constant switching of the title against what was the consensus in December. Please try to reach consensus on the talk page for the name of article before requesting a move. Thanks Keith D (talk) 14:25, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I have restored the page again to the agreed title as it was moved without discussion. I have also move protected it again and request that moves are made only by agreement, following discussion on the talk page. Keith D (talk) 18:03, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Name change again...

Now she's been Bree Hodge for two seasons, as long as she was Bree Van de Kamp, and the season four finale indicates she'll still be Bree Hodge in the next season. I understand the hesitance, after the shortness of the Delfino and Lang marriages, but I think the time has come. -- AvatarMN (talk) 14:39, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Just because the name Bree Hodge has been used for two seasons, it doesn't mean that becomes her common name! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.204.177.99 (talk) 19:40, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Being more recent and for a longer term doesn't make it the more common? Really?? -- AvatarMN (talk) 13:43, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to settle it, I don't care if her name is "Bree Hodge" for the next 18,000 seasons her "common name" and "most popular referred name" is "BREE VAN DE KAMP!" The article will remain Bree Van de Kamp, because thats who she will be. That's who she was before she married Orson and thats who she'll be after Orson leaves or dies! —Preceding unsigned comment added by TimothyBanks (talk • contribs) 23:21, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

And you base this on what? -- AvatarMN (talk) 07:24, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

How she is perceived in the media, news reports etc. and the "real world". Which is what Wikipedia articles are supposed to reflect.~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 01:03, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

That she could be named Hodge for 18,000 more seasons and it would still not be percieved as her common name is certainly not based on anything in the real world. And is the media, etc. still referring to her as Van de Kamp? I don't think anyone can prove that. Anyone who's still talking about her surely knows this hasn't been her name for two years and counting. I can understand the reluctance to change the article name before now, but I think it's getting to be that time. -- AvatarMN (talk) 05:56, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

There is also an infobox for all the various names. But, whatever.~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 13:44, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree with AvatarMN, it should be changed to Hodge because that is what she's known as. I've seen her referred to in the media as that name, it's just as well-known as Van de Kamp, and it would be more encyclopaedic to go with her actual name, not the name she had two seasons ago. -Trampikey^{(talk)(contribs)} 14:39, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Can someone please explain to me the logic behind Hodge being her "actual" name just because it's most recent? Just because the show is in it's fourth/fifth season, do the first two seasons cease to exist? Fiction does not date the way you are implying, seasons one and two are just as relevant as the later ones. Giving something precedence because it is more recent is frowned upon on Wikipedia. Now until someone can prove Hodge is more notable than Van de Kamp, I say we stick with the original default name; the name the character was created as. Being "more recent" (even for two years) just doesn't cut it.  Paul  730 21:51, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Most well known does not equal longest run with said name. The show could go on for 4 more seasons (God, I hope not, because it's running thin in the creative department), and she could stay "Hodge" that whole time. Does that make "Hodge" the more well known name? Not necessarily. It would certainly be the name she's had the longest, but it isn't indicative of whether or not she is most well known by that name. Wikipedia is based on historical context. Historically, she was "Van de Kampe", and she is just as well known with that as she is with "Hodge" from everything I've seen. "Bree" is technically how she is known throughout the media world, but that is neither here nor there. The fact remains that the article should be written from a historical standpoint. The lead should summarize the entire article. That means you note her original name, and note her new name. Trust me, this article has way more problems with it than trying to figure out what the official title of the page should be.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 04:41, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

How about Bree (Desperate Housewives)? Alientraveller (talk) 08:48, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

One thing I get from recent comments is some suggestions that titling the article Bree Hodge is just as good as titling it Bree Van de Kamp. There's some consensus that she's as well known as Hodge as she is as Van de Kamp. And no, a more recent fact does not always have more weight than an older fact, but might it if the more recent has lasted longer than the original? The spirit of guideline about recent events being given undue weight is that the information could be transitory. The information has lasted over two years, re: a subject that's existed for only four. There's a lot of people making vague support for positions, which doesn't jibe with how strongly the article move has been opposed. Does this mean concensus is changing?

And I think Alientraveller may have a point. The media, etc. probably in fact talks about the characters more by their first names alone than attaching any surname. Might this be a good compromise, when we're dealing with a show that does in fact feature a bunch of women who are serial marriers? Moving articles to Bree (Desperate Housewives), Susan (Desperate Housewives), Gabrielle (Desperate Housewives), may be sensible. Maybe even Lynette (Desperate Housewives), just for uniformity. Of course, there should remain redirects from all notable names for the characters, and the headers should mention all of the names. -- AvatarMN (talk) 22:54, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

That thought crossed my mind as well. I'm all for the simple title of "Bree". The infobox can list each of the names if it's really that important.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 02:40, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

I would not say that the single name instance is the route to go. I mean, I would argue that these characters are better known by their first and last names together. For instance, when a person talking about fictional characters says, "Did you see what crazy thing Susan did last night?"...it's like, "Susan, who? Which Susan?" But if you say, "Susan Mayer"...there's a high chance that they know the character you are talking about it. Without saying "Susan Mayer", you have to clarify that you mean Susan from Desperate Housewives. Of course, if that person is unfamiliar with the show and its characters, you would have to clarify that you mean Susan from Desperate Housewives in that scenario as well, but you get the point. Flyer22 (talk) 17:37, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

As I stated up front when I proposed the idea, the article titles would have to be Susan (Desperate Housewives), etc. With redirects to it at Susan Meyer and Susan Delfino, etc. But the main article's title would remain something that we don't ever have to deal with arguing about changing, a serious problem with these articles as they are currently named, when you're dealing with a program full of women who are serial marriers. -- AvatarMN (talk) 22:16, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

And I get what you are saying. I just feel that it is not necessary. The only Desperate Housewives character under super dispute when it comes to her name is Bree Van de Kamp. (Yes, I know that the Gabrielle Solis and Susan Mayer articles were moved more than once and twice, but once a mover of those articles is informed of the common name policy Wikipedia goes by, they should easily grasp that the common name is best.) Wikipedia users should familiarize themselves with Wikipeda's policy on common names, as well as other policies this project goes by. Sometimes an article's common name is debatable, such as this one. But that does not mean that we should "sacrifice" other articles just to appease the ones who have a problem with a particular article.

That said, I would not be too opposed to the moves you are talking about in this case. It's just like I said: "I just feel that it is not necessary." If moved, I'm sure some people will wonder why these articles are not at their full names, considering that no other subjects on Wikipedia have these names. But oh well. It is not like that is a reason not to move these articles. Flyer22 (talk) 01:13, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

She's been Bree Hodge for "FIVE YEARS" now..so WHAT, its obvious she still uses Van de Kamp, sighting the title of her cook book, "Mrs. Van de Kamp etc..." Besides, its her family name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.247.21.103 (talk) 09:03, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Bree took her old name back!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTrW-BKG7Yk

So that should be a reason to change Hallihalli (talk) 18:26, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Relevance of "Cultural influences and impact" section

Is this section really necessary? Is there really any point to knowing that Bree was spoofed on MadTV or Charmed? It doesn't add anything productive to the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.9.225.118 (talk) 01:44, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

It provides the real world impact content required by guidelines. -- AvatarMN (talk) 06:34, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

That isn't real world impact, its two examples of poorly written parodies. None of the other articles contain sections on it, even though they were parodied in the MadTV sketch as well. It adds nothing productive in the article. A real example of cultural impact is how Rachel's hairdo on Friends caused people in real life to adopt the same hairstyle. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.91.90.34 (talk) 16:58, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

That's your opinion. You want to see some deletionist come and get rid of the article because nobody even tried? -- AvatarMN (talk) 01:20, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

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Bree's Last Name is Van de Kamp not Hodge

On last nights show she was on the phone and said "this is Bree Van de Kamp" and Orson said he did not wanna be Mr. Bree Van de Kamp whenn she schould be Mrs. Orson Hodge! Her name is Van de Kamp in all of season 5 Season 6 (six): She Has Been going as Bree Hodge again, but does still use Van de Kamp —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.189.73.164 (talk) 06:21, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

When it was mention

that Gloria died? In season 5? In Acquaintances of Bree Van de Kamp#Gloria Hodge someone described 6 years later it is unknown if she is still alive as she has not been mentioned or seen. Her return however is very unlikely due to the death of Dixie Carter on April 10th 2010. Make up your mind! Michu1945 (talk) 10:09, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

One thing

Several times in past series, scriptwriters wrote her second name as "Van De Kamp", not "Van de Kamp". Especially in episode Everybody Says Don't (list of surnames to testimony) or Me and My Town (Big board behind Bree's back in department store). Michu1945 (talk) 13:31, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Affairs

Someone wrote that Bree has ahd two affairs; the one with Karl which obviously was a main storyline in season 6 but also with George during her marriage to Rex. Obviously she was still married when she began dating George but she and Rex were seperated, this is clearly stated in the show by Bree herself and other characters, and so I don't think it should be refered to as an affair. Rex even met George when he picked Bree up for their first date. Due to this I have changed the sentence to read that she has only had one affair. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.28.251.146 (talk) 17:39, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Latest discussion on surname, June '11

Hi, having this page on my watchlist, I've noticed recently that several people keep changing the name from Van de Kamp to Hodge and vice versa, so I'm adding a note here so people can explain their reasoning. [7], [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], [13] As I feel these may name changes may be frustrating, a RFC could be set up. KiloT 12:13, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

I have been reverting various single edit IP changes to the names so that the first name in the lead matches the article title and the infobox. Keith D (talk) 12:20, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Just a thought, but even though in the series, Bree has reverted back to being known as Bree Van de Kamp, shouldn't she be introducted as "Bree van de Kamp (née Mason, formerly Hodge)" to share consistency with the other wives. Susan's page for example begins "Susan Delfino (née Bremmer, formerly Mayer)."

Obviously the page should continue to be named Bree Van de Kamp, but it seems weird that all of the other wives previous surnames are used but Bree's are not, especially when on the show, Bree was known as Bree Hodge a lot longer than many of the others used their names. (Kyleofark (talk) 16:17, 23 January 2012 (UTC))

About previous residence

When it was mentioned that Bree lived in Providence, Rhode Island? In which episode, by who and when? Michu1945 (talk) 13:09, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

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