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Archive 1

world cup golden ball

AIUI, a separate award given to the player of the tournament in World Cup finals is also called the Golden Ball. Possibly some disambiguation and a new page needed?

I made a disambiguation page at Golden Ball, in stead of the redirect page that was there earlier. --Salmon 13:36, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Club

Because the award count from January to December, the club section may have two clubs i think. Matthew_hk tc 06:08, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

surprise

Im surprised that none of the mighty magyars have ever won the european player of the year— Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.80.195.38 (talk) 02:58, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

top 3

I made the table which shows top 3 for each year. FIFA WPOTY has one too, so I see no reason why this award, which is more important than FIFA’s, wouldn’t have it. I used information from the RSSSF’s site and compared their information with Wikipedia’s. They listed clubs that a player was a member of only in the second part of the year (which is what officially counts after all), but I also added clubs from the first part of the year. I used information from Wikipedia, so it should be correct. The only mistake that I found on RSSSF site is about Raymond Kopa - they state that he was playing for Stade Reims at the end of 1956, and for Real Madrid at the end of 1959. However, I found on Wikipedia and a few other sites that he moved to Real in the summer of 1956, and returned to Stade Reims in the summer of 1959. So that is the only thing that I corrected in the top 3 table as well as in 2 tables below (‘’medals by club’’ and ‘’medals by league’’). In ‘’medals by players’’, I decided to put only players who won at least 2 medals, because the complete list would be way too long, and unnecessary, since their names can be found above. Someone keeps making changes to ‘’wins by club’’, and putting Barcelona on top, even though Luis Figo and Ronaldo didn’t play there when they won the award. That’s incorrect. RSSSF made all their rankings for clubs and leagues according to what club players played for when they won the award, or finished 2nd/3rd. That club/league is what France Football OFFICIALLY counts, whether someone likes it or not. I kindly ask that user not to make those incorrect changes any more. Thanks. Maja123456 12:03, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Rogerio Ceni

São Paulo F.C goalkeeper, Rogerio Ceni been nominated this year for this award and he plays for a South American team. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.152.4.232 (talk) 12:49, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

2007 Update for Kaka

Hi everyone. I just found sources which say that Kaka has won [1] [2], and I started updating the page, which probably wasn't a good idea. In any case, as things stand now, everything regarding Kaka winning has been updated (ie, nation/club medal counts, etc.). So no need to add it all again when the victory becomes official on the 2nd. Sorry about that.

Jairuscobb (talk) 05:07, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I noticed that the information about Kaka has already been taken down once. Please, I know it was a mistake to put it up in the first place, but now that I've already updated everything, please don't take it down, otherwise, the medal counts and what not will probably end up double counted, which we all want to avoid.
Jairuscobb (talk) 02:22, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

World Footballer of the year

France Football now includes players from every league. I think that the title of the page should now be changed back to "Ballon d'Or" instead of "European Player of the Year" because it doesn't refer to Europe in any way (nationality or league) any more. Miht09 14:53, 23 October 2007 (UTC)Miht09

I agree. However, I have no idea how to go about it. Do we keep adding to this list with a new title, or does this count as a new award now? Hard to say that Platini and van Basten have won the same award as Kaka... Jairuscobb (talk) 05:22, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes, everyone considers it to be the same award. Even if they included a couple of players from leagues outside of Europe, it won't change the fact that players from European leagues remain biggest favourites to win it. This change now is a minor change compared to that of 1995 when they included players from outside of Europe, so that for example South American or African players became eligible, and they have won it many times since then. If France Football didn't say it was a different award in 1995, then there's no reason to consider it a different award now. All winners since 1956 until now, including Kaka, won the same award. You can find it here http://www.francefootball.fr/FF/ballon_or/index_bo.html. IMHO the title should be left like it is (World Footballer of the Year) or maybe even better, "Ballon d'Or" so that it would include both the years when it referred to "Europe" and from now on, years when it refers to all leagues in the world. Miht09 (talk) 16:27, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Wow, it is refreshing to see such logic on wikipedia. You've won me over...do as you wish
Jairuscobb (talk) 11:49, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
I think the article should be reverted back to "Ballon d'Or" because then it becomes too associated and confusing with the "FIFA World Player of the Year" award, what do you think?.... Muppeteer —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.211.57.208 (talk) 21:06, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
I prefer Ballon d'Or or even Golden Ball to European Footballer of the Year, which this award clearly is not anymore. Nach0king 08:56, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

"Widely Regarded"

This article says: "Ballon d'Or is widely regarded as the most prestigious individual award in football." This is untrue!! Here in brasil, FIFA's prize is much more valued than Ballon d'Or. this statement is very subjective, and should be substituted for "as one of the most prestigious", or "the most prestigious in Europe".

189.70.36.195 22:32, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

  • I don't think it is subjective. It doesn't say that it "is" the most prestigious prize, it says that it is "widely regarded" as such. Those are two different things. I understand that FIFA's award can be regarded by some as bigger award since it refers to "world" player of the year, but Ballon d'or also counts all players from around the world since 2007. And also because Ballon d'Or started in 1950s and FIFA WPOTY award started in 1991, so this award is much older. You can also read on this page on goal.com that they say that FIFA's award is arguably a bit less important.[3]
Just because it is not he boldest claim possible ("is" the most prestigious) does not mean it is not subjective. Having read that link, I think its good that you found a source, but ultimately, it is still an arbitrary decision...the writer did not substantiate his point at all. After all, who is "Steve Michaels?" Find an article that addresses the main difference between the awards (Baloon is voted by writers, while FIFA is voted by coaches) and uses THAT as justification for valuing the Baloon d'Or more and I'll defend the claim. Until then, I'm taking it out. Jairuscobb 22:14, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, I just read an article in a Brazillian website that says "A conquista da Bola de Ouro é um bom indício para Kaká na disputa do prêmio de Melhor do Mundo da Fifa. Desde 1991, quando foi criado o troféu concedido pela entidade máxima do futebol, nove vencedores da Bola de Ouro foram eleitos o Melhor do Mundo". In English, it means "The premiation of the Ballon d'Or is a good omen for Kaká in the quest for the prize of FIFA World Player of the Year. Since 1991, when the trophy given by the greatest football entity was created, nine winners of Ballon d'Or were elected Word Players". And that is the Brazillian mentality, Ballon d'or is nothing but a step closer to FIFA's prize.

link: http://esportes.terra.com.br/futebol/europeu2007/interna/0,,OI2118647-EI9974,00.html

189.70.82.150 19:28, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, I am saying it isn't the most prestigious everywhere, and it isn't. It may be the most prestigious in England or France, but not in all the world, as the article was saying. So, you should change to "the most prestigious in Europe" 189.70.87.115 18:06, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move due to renaming and reclassification of event. Woody (talk) 14:51, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

European Footballer of the Year to Ballon d'Or. The award is, basically, no longer "european", so it would be better to use the official name from now on. In fact, it hasn't been european ever since 1995, but starting from last year, the name just lost its meaning completely. Seing the discussion above, the move is unlikely to be disputed and I could've done it myself, but the Ballon d'Or page currently redirects here. BanRay 14:24, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

  • Support for the reasons given by the nominator - I backed this suggestion in the section above this one, too. As well as being official, it's more neutral. Eventually, it'll probably also be the common name for it (just as Champions League eventually overtook European Cup - even retrospectively in some cases.) Nach0king (talk) 14:48, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Support --Saudi9999 15:37, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Actually it doesn't really matter to me what you guys change it to just as long as its not reverted back to "WORLD PLAYER OF THE YEAR"....I SUPPORT BOTH "european footballer of the year" OR "ballon d'or".... Muppeteer —Preceding comment was added at 23:16, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Adding in position played by the winners?

In the table which shows the winners, should there be an extra column which shows what position on the field the players played in at the time they won the award? Sera404 (talk) 14:10, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Andresito Iniesta did not win in 2008

Winners table currently says Andresito Iniesta won in 2008 though Cristiano Ronaldo won. Suspicious winning votes of "uncountable" makes it obviously fan vandalism. I don't know how many votes Ronaldo got in winning though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Flintrhino (talk • contribs) 06:48, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism is now reverted. Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits) 15:00, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Zidane did not win four years in a row

Zidane did not win it in 1997 (Ronaldo), 1999 (Rivaldo), or 2000 (Luis Figo) http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/europa-poy.html Regretfully my editing skills do not extend to being able to correct this without cocking up the formatting so would be grateful if somebody could assist.

Robinr22 (talk) 11:02, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks to PeeJay2K3 for correcting Robinr22 (talk) 16:28, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

New page or rename the existing article? The FIFA Ballon d’Or is born

A new chapter in football was opened with the news that France Football’s Ballon d’Or and the FIFA World Player of the Year award have been merged. FIFA President Joseph S. Blatter signed an agreement with Amaury Group President Marie-Odile Amaury in Johannesburg on Monday, meaning that the world’s best player will from now on be awarded the FIFA Ballon d’Or each year. [6] --Corwin of Amber (talk) 15:56, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

I think a new article should be created, similar to how these two articles (Football League First Division & Football League Championship) are kept separate. - Yk (talk) 12:10, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
I don't think the analogy is quite right, but I do agree that a new article should be created. – PeeJay 12:15, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
Will the information on here and on the FIFA World Player of the Year be used on the new article? La Fuzion (talk) 18:22, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
That depends on whether FIFA includes the history of either award in the history of the current award. If they start the list of winners of the FIFA Ballon d'Or with this year's winner, then I should say that info from this article and FIFA World Player of the Year should be left out. – PeeJay 21:27, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Title change

Go to google, yahoo, ask, whatever, and type "European Footballer of the Year" and "Ballon d'Or". You will find the great bulk of articles and news that comes around use the English translation of the award; that qualifies it perfectly to change its title to "European Footballer of the Year" per WP:NC. MaxO1897 (talk) 12:20, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Please have a look at Talk:Ballon d'Or#Requested move. The article was renamed to Ballon d'Or a couple years ago following a formal request. Favonian (talk) 12:25, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
Yes, I did see that. Besides being irrelevant now, the change was wrongly injustified. MaxO1897 (talk) 12:35, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Who the hell is Kieran Walker?

Is this a real footballer or did some joker manage to add his name onto this "important" list? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kentheman (talk • contribs) 16:59, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

I've reverted, that editor replaced the correct info with that name. Zarcadia (talk) 17:51, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

2010

So 2010 shouldn't appear here anympore but on FIF Ballon d'Or? -Koppapa (talk) 19:49, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Correct. FIFA World Player of the Year‎ and Ballon d'Or merged to become FIFA Ballon d'Or. Unfortunately various editors are including 2010 results into the old award articles when they should be (and have been correctly) added to 2010 FIFA Ballon d'Or. Zarcadia (talk) 00:06, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm not convinced about this move to a new page. Everybody is saying Messi has won 2 prices, but he will appear as having won one ballon d'or and one fifa ballon d'or with this system. It looks to me (and apparently to all the media who published the results today) that the FIFA ballon d'or is the continuation of the ballon d'or (ex: complain of the spanish of not having won since 1960), so it looks to me like a bad idea to separate the articles. People will always want to know if Messi has won more ballon d'or (of whatever type) than Johan cruyff, and so on... BTW, I'm not convinced either of the "referred to as the European Footballer of the Year award" since starting in 2007 any player in any club in the world could be a candidate, and the "The most recent recipient of the Ballon d'Or is Lionel Messi, the second Argentine to win the award, but the first as an Argentine citizen": shouldn't he be the third to win the award, first as argentine citizen (the other 2 being Di Stefano and Sivori)? Bertou (talk) 04:23, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

You got a point there. But as the FIFA Ballon d'Or not only succeeds the Ballon d'Or but also the FIFA_World_Player_of_the_Year, you would have to included those titles in the totals too, if you include the Ballon d'Or ones. -Koppapa (talk) 08:46, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
I strongly disagree with Bertou, the new award is a merger of the two seperate awards FIFA World Player of the Year and Ballon d'Or, the pages for those awards should stop at 2009 with this years (2010) and any future awards added to the correct page FIFA Ballon d'Or. Zarcadia (talk) 10:27, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
Fine, you may strongly disagree, but this does not answer the question I raised. If you read any newspaper article (at least in the 3 from Argentina, 1 from France, 3 from Spain, and 1 from UK I read), Messi is always refered to as winning his second title, and with comparison of other people winning ballon d'or. In some sense, what the FIFA did was to merge 2 awards. And what is done in the wiki is to create a new page which only linked the other two, which is kind of the opposite of what a merging is. While it looks to me that in most countries the FIFA WPofY is much less considered than the ballon d'or (except in Brasil, which has actually won quite a few FIFA prices when they were not allowed yet to win ballon d'or, so it can easily be understood), maybe a more proper approach would be to have in the new page a merged list of gains... In any case, while you may disagree on my post, I still argue that the current situation is not very satisfactory. An encyclopedia is supposed to help understand the world as it is, and as such having a FIFA ballon d'or page with only one winner and the ballon d'or page with the previous ones does not seem ideal to me. Maybe this discussion should move to the FIFA balon d'or discussion page... I don't have any strong view on the topic, and don't plan on making any changes but as it is I feel something is missing Bertou (talk) 19:16, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
I understand the point you are making but it seems erroneous to me to have 2010 listing below 2009 on the Ballon d'Or article as it indicates that they are the same award. Maybe we could have Ballon d'Or and FIFA World Player of the Year winners alongside each other then FIFA Ballon d'Or below for clarity but to list 2010 on Ballon d'Or is quite simply incorrect as they are different awards, and puts unjustified emphasis on the Ballon d'Or compared to the FIFA World Player of the Year. An editor has placed the comment Since 2010, the world’s best player will be awarded the FIFA Ballon d’Or below the 2009 entries on both pages so the reader can clearly see that from 2010 onwards a new award was created amalgamating the two (although someone has added 2010 to this page). I think it would be useful if a consensus can be reached on whether this article should show 2010 so hopefully some more editors will join in the discussion. As to your point that various media have referred to Messi’s second win, I think they have done that more for the sake of simplicity due to the fact that he won both previous awards but if we are to be enclyopedic (which we should be) then technically Messi has won one each of Ballon d'Or, FIFA World Player of the Year and FIFA Ballon d'Or (first two in 2009 and latter in 2010). Zarcadia (talk) 18:00, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
I fully agree with your points. Of course the number of Ballon d'Or is not a strict measure of a player quality (Maradona, Pele...), but it is the closest thing we have, and for "recent" players, it is kind of the right thing. Maybe in 5 years Messi will have won 5 more FIFA Ballon d'Or, the wolrd cup, and nobody will care about how many he really won (I hope so :P), but it is kind of strange of not being able to compare Messi to other great players just because two prices were merged. The answer should probably not come from us but from the FIFA, actually. In the meanwhile, maybe a list including all the prices, with 2 names when the FIFA and Ballon d'Or were different, and some global ranking counting only one price per year? But as I said, even if this is what look to me as the right thing, this should be proposed by the FIFA I guess, not us... So... Well... Don't know... Bertou (talk) 23:51, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
Not only is it a new award now, the voting procedure has changed dramatically with now coaches and captians being able to vote too. Maybe an option is to merge the two pages, but name all the changes and break the table at 2009, a short new paragraph and then continue with 2010 onwards.-Koppapa (talk) 09:52, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

But to do that raises the problem that up until 2009 we are listing European (club) Footballer of the Year (as the Ballon d'Or was) then from 2010 listing world player of the year. The reason the Ballon d'Or was merged with the FIFA World Player of the Year was that recently both awards were voting for the same winner and it made sense to have a single award but if we list pre- and post- 2010 then we are giving the wrong impression that, for example, in 2001 Michael Owen was voted world player of the year when it was in fact Luis Figo. I don't think we should be confused by the fact that both awards have Ballon d'Or in the title, the FIFA Ballon d'Or is a different award. I understand people concerns that there is no continuous list for pre- and post- 2010 but, in my opinion, the incorrect continuation of listing outweighs that. Maybe on the FIFA Ballon d'Or article we could list both Ballon d'Or and FIFA World Player of the Year alongside each other (as I have suggested previously) but we really shouldn't here. It seems this page is being edited constantly between those who think we should list 2010 and those who don't and unfortunately most of those are anon ip editors who apparently don't join in discussion here. It would be best if we can reach a consensus here and maintain the article accordingly. Zarcadia (talk) 17:10, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

The above decision doesnt make any sense. Almost every newspaper refer to the FIFA ballon dor as the ballon dor and counts the latest FIFA Ballon dor as the next winner of the old ballon dor. Even the presenter on the award night held up to fingers to symbolise that this was the second time he (messi) won the ballon dor. Which of course doesn't make sense with the gibberish currently employed. Furthermore the FIFA Ballon d'Or page listed female winners and coaches? Sorry, but they do not win the FIFA Ballon dor. There is only one winner of that award. Not two. Not three. Not four, one. One player wins the FIFA ballon dor, only one. The rest win various FIFA awards, NOT FIFA ballon dor awards. To further show the total confusion the site RSSF which is used to reference the Ballon d'Or article, counts the FIFA ballon dor under the fifa WP awards. Good stuff indeed. I propose that the FIFA Ballon dor winners are continued under the ballon dor, perhaps under a new section. Sandman888 (talk) 10:09, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Real Madrid's pseudo-European Players of the Year

For lots of these players who Real Madrid are given credit for here, they earned the honour while they were at other clubs. For example Fabio Cannavaro was awarded player of the year after playing a season for Juventus and winning the World Cup with Italy. Why on earth should Madrid get the credit for that? - Soprani 20:00, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Says on his page that Cannavaro started playing for Madrid on July 25th...thats a good chunk of a season before the award is released in December. And if you are arguing that his Madrid results were not the ones which "earned" him the award, I would argue, neither was his time at Juventus or anything besides his World Cup Play (ie. take out his play in Germany, and is he even in the discussion for the award? I hardly follow football, but my guess is no. That's not to say that he didn't play well outside of those seven matches, but I think they disproportionately helped his cause at the Year End Awards, with good reason), but the award doesn't discriminate that way. So what's the problem...? Jairuscobb (talk) 11:55, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
Oh, it turns out you aren't a real person...nevermind all that. Jairuscobb (talk) 11:56, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Certainly right, therefore the title should be shared within both teams were that player played that specific year plus international squad, giving the title to the team were the player happened to be at the end of the season is not quite fair. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.194.103.245 (talk) 09:31, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Messi 2011

everyone in the world knows messi have 3 ballon d'ors"Messi is the fourth football player to win three Ballon d'Ors, after Johan Cruyff, Michel Platini and Marco Van Basten and the second player to win three consecutive Ballon d'Ors, after Michel Platini,on fifa site messi is mentioned with 3 ballon d'ors,on media,everywere in the world,why you don't change it?another argument,uefa champions league until 1992 was euroepan cup,but real madrid is considered to have 9 title champions league but real have just 3,if champions league will change the name again in 2013,you mean every team in the world will have zero trophies?messi have 3 ballon d'ors that is a fact.(SORRY FOR MY BAD ENGLISH.)(86.126.103.85 (talk)sir marian86.126.103.85 (talk))

There two separate awards, the FIFA Ballon d'Or saw the Ballon d'Or and FIFA World Player of the Year award merged. Therefore its inaccurate to say that Messi has won it three years in a row as its a new award and separate from the previous one, which FIFA acknowledges on its site, so you're ascertain their website says he has three is wrong. The difference between the Champions League and this award is that it was still the same trophy, there weren't two that were merged, as is the case here. NapHit (talk) 11:22, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

I understand you but however"FIFA.com: You’re the first player since Michel Platini to win the Ballon d’Or three times in a row. How do you feel? Lionel Messi: I’m very proud to have won it three times, especially one after the other. It’s hard to win one, let alone three. I’m very happy and this award gives me as much pleasure as the first...Platini himself said messi have 3 ballon d'ors. From goal.com:"The Argentine has emulated Michel Platini, the only other player to win the award three times in a row, and joins Johan Cruyff and Marco van Basten on a trio of successes" are millions of news about messi third ballon d'or."86.126.102.72 (talk)sir marian —Preceding undated comment added 15:12, 12 January 2012 (UTC).

NapHit you are violating the wikipedia rules. This is not the page to present your personal opinions. The generally accepted fact is that Messi won the award for the third consecutive year. Fifa agrees, Uefa agrees, Platini agrees, France Football agrees, Messi agrees, Di Stefa agrees, the most important journalists agree (see Marca, Guardian, goal.com)... Therefore it is not up to you to make your personal research and to argue something else. Sorry.

I'm violating wikipedia rules that's a new one. They are two separate awards, technically he has won awards three years in a row, but what you fail to recognise is that the two awards were merged, therefore it is now a separate award, and as such should not be listed on this page. The Ballon d'Or ceased to exist after 2009, that is made clear on FIFA's webiste, where it lists France Football Ballon d'Or winners. If it was the same award we wouldn't have separate articles would we? NapHit (talk) 22:08, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
This is ridiculous naphit. Everybody in the world refer to this as messis 3rd ballon dor, im not even going to post a google search for this. The fact is, everybody treats this as his 3rd ballon dor, ipso facto it IS his third ballon dor. Otherwise you have to come up with reliable references that this is NOT his third ballon dor. The ball is in your court.Sandman888 (talk) 21:12, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Its not ridiculous at all, how can we win an award for the third time in a row, when the award he won in the past two years is a new one. The Ballon d'or that has been awarded since 2010 is a MERGER between the Ballon d'Or and the FIFA World Player of the Year. here is a link on FIFA's website which lists the winners and it clearly states that the award was the France Football Ballon d'or and stopped in 2009. Technically Messi has won the award three years in a row, but its only the name that is the same that's why the media refers to him winning the award three times in a row. This award on this page stopped being awarded in 2009, that's why he should not be included here. That is the consensus on WP:FOOTY. Its clearly stated at the top of the article that the award doesn't exist anymore, what part of that don't you understand? NapHit (talk) 21:26, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Again, these are only your opinions. This is not the right palce to make personal research. It is the same as with personal names, see for example the article of Ron Artest/Metta World Peace. Even though technically his name was Metta World Peace, the wikipedia article was named Ron Artest until the new name came to be generally accepted among commentators, experts, fans, etc. The same rule apples here - EVERYBODY (not only media as you try to suggest) considers this to be Messi's third consecutive ballon d'oro, therefore wikipedia should reflect it. What we can accept is to make a separate table in the same article as it was before. It would be an acceptable compromis, it seems, however, that you want to go against all the rules and habits just to present your personal view of the award. And that is not correct, this is not your blog... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.102.113.80 (talk) 23:19, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Messi has won three awards called "Ballon d'Or", that is true. However, the award he won in 2009 is not the same as the awards he won in 2010 and 2011. Anyone who says they are (and that includes the media) is wrong. – PeeJay 23:53, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Reliable sources trumps wrong. That's how this site works. Sandman888 (talk) 20:36, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
I'm sorry but its not my opinion, the simple fact is the award on this page no longer exists, its not hard to understand. If the award no longer exists how can he have won it three times in a row. I'm not going against rules, habits or conventions, or making personal research, the award on this page was awarded by l'equipe a french newspaper, the award was called the ballon d'or, it ceased to exist in 2009 when it was merged with the FIFA World Player of the Year award. Thus a new award was created (which is why its on a separate page), the only relation between this award and the new one is the name. The top of the page makes it clear the award is no longer in existence, so how can messi win an award that doesn't exist? NapHit (talk) 00:09, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
The award's name is practically the same, the trophy also... I think FIFA just accepted that they couldn't match the popularity with WPOTY and droped their own award, embraced the already popular one and called it a "merge"... when a truly merge is done, everybody understand it as it is, and probably you don't keep the same trophy and name... I don't think it's a "new" price... it's like saying "La Liga" should now be moved to a new "Liga BBVA" page... kind of nonsense... we can just simply consider this page talking about that golden ball trophy...--186.108.192.3 (talk) 06:51, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
" UEFA president Michel Platini heralded Lionel Messi after the Barcelona star matched the Frenchman's record of having won three consecutive FIFA Ballon d'Or awards." FIFAdotCom And many more. It is NOT a new award. He has won it thrice. Everybody says so. Otherwise we will have to bring in an outside party to weigh the evidence (just how many articles refer to it as 3 ballon dor wins?) against yours (how many articles claims that it is NOT his third?). Guess where the majority of reliables sources will be.... Sandman888 (talk) 20:36, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
You're missing the key point, the award on THIS page no longer exists it was merged with the FIFA World Player of the Year award to create the FIFA Ballon d'Or. He's won three awards in name only, how can you not understand that point, its simple. Consensus on WP is that this award on this page no longer exists, why do you think there is a separate article? If it was the same award there would be no need for another award. NapHit (talk) 23:27, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Consensus of media (reliable sources) >>>> consensus of five wikipedians. And thats wikipedia policy. Sandman888 (talk) 00:16, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Omg, I started a war here, I'm sorry for that Naphit, but I see many people agrees with me, I don't know why you disagree with us? Are you the site administrator? no one says that Messi has 2 FIFA Ballon d'or and 1 Ballon d'or , everywhere is said messi to have three golden Balls, however I understand you ,you have 30% right, but FIFA Ballon d'or article was done by users like us,if we want we can delete the FIFA ballon d'or article,just ballon d'or article should remains, and should continue after 2009,2010,2011 also with Messi but to mention that Ballon d'or was merge in 2010 with fifa word player of the year,and the result was fifa ballon d'or,you agree?(86.122.230.123 (talk)sir marian86.122.230.123 (talk)) —Preceding undated comment added 13:36, 22 January 2012 (UTC).
I disagree with you because you're wrong. Regarding your proposal, there is a consensus that the two awards are different which they are (have a look at the discussion on WP:FOOTY, if you don't believe me). It would be factually incorrect to include results on this page when the award no longer exists, wouldn't be very encyclopaedic would it? NapHit (talk) 13:58, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
It would not be incorrect, it would reflect how the award is understood. yet, we can make a different column in the same article to make clear that there is a difference yif you want. Also, you should probably know that FIFA obtained license from France Football to award the Golden Ball (for five years only!!!), therefore it is in fact still the same trophy. But again ,we can make a comrpomis and make two separate colums in one article but it seems like you will only accept your way. Wikipedia is not the best side for this kind of attitude ;) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.102.113.80 (talk) 15:10, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
Its pointless adding an extra column to include the FIFA Ballon d'Or winners when there is separate page on wikipedia. Its not good practice to repeat information and this is what we would be doing. There is a link at the top of the article to the new award that should suffice. It may be the same trophy but its not the same award which is the point I've made time and time again. NapHit (talk) 22:30, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

This is utterly wrong, if you go to FIFA website you can clearly see that they regard FIFA balon d'or as a continuation of the France Football one. As you can see it by going to previous editions, http://www.fifa.com/ballondor/archive/index.html wher they list all the winners since 1991. So if the casual user goes to FIFA official website he will see Messi as 3 times balon d'or winner, while if he goes to wikipedia, he will find out a complete different and obscure theory of a brand new trophy, therefore damaging wikipedia reputation as a reliable an unbiased source. Wikipedia should be following whatever the official source says, even it it is wrong or ilogical, if FIFA says that their trophy is a continuation of France Football one, so it is, unless France Football denies and regardless the opinion of any wikipedian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.194.103.245 (talk) 09:20, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

It is not wrong. Firstly the list all the winners since 1991 because that is referring to the FIFA World Player of the Year award which started in 1991 whereas the Ballon d'Or started in 1956, ao your argument fails there. Secondly the Ballon d'Or and the FIFA Wolrd Player of the Year award were merged creating a new award, which is why there is a new page, its not hard to understand. NapHit (talk) 10:44, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

And on the same page you also have the list of all France Football Ballon d'or winners, meaning that it is a continuation, moreover you can go to any official press release http://www.fifa.com/ballondor/news/newsid=1566175/index.html and it clearly says "FIFA.com: You’re the first player since Michel Platini to win the Ballon d’Or three times in a row. How do you feel?" here is another reference on the trophy page http://www.fifa.com/ballondor/trophyfacts/index.html "Everyone knows what the newly-renamed FIFA Ballon d’Or trophy looks like but few know how it is made. FIFA.com reveals the secrets behind the creation of this much-coveted accolade, due to be presented once more this evening. Awarded for the very first time by the French daily France Football in 1956, the Ballon d’Or is made by Mellerio dits Meller, the prestigious jewellers founded in 1613." Got it? newly-renamed, but I guess you know better than FIFA themselves, and that's what wikipedia is all about, opinions, isn't it? [/ironic off].

Look, the award doesn't exist any more how can you not understand that? It clearly states http://www.fifa.com/ballondor/aboutgala/index.html here] that the Ballon d'Or and FIFA World Player of the Year Award were MERGED. Therefore its two different processes merged together, and a new award created. Its not hard to understand. NapHit (talk) 11:45, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit notice

I think we need to create an edit notice, telling people in no uncertain terms what the de facto situation on this article is, containing a very prominent link to FIFA Ballon d'Or. Other worthwhile links could include WP:3RR, WP:BRD, and an encouragment to contribute to the talk page if they would like to question this.

It would of course need to be worded in such a way as not to imply that the status quo is "right", merely that it is the status quo. Thoughts? —WFC— 01:38, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Sod all has been done on the above request, sod all has changed stability wise. Given that the alternative is semi-protection, please could an admin create the following edit notice:

{{ambox|type=content|image=[[File:Emblem-important.svg|40px|alt=Question mark]]|text=This article currently only covers the award up until 2009. Awards since 2010 are currently covered by another article, [[FIFA Ballon d'Or]]. If you feel this is incorrect, please discuss it at [[Talk:Ballon d'Or|this article's talk page]]. Please do not add subsequent years without discussion: Wikipedia has a practise of [[WP:BRD|reverting contentious edits pending discussion]].}}

Which will create:

Thanks in advance, —WFC— 10:14, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Done I took the liberty of rewording your proposed notice slightly to more accurately explain the situation as stated from the various articles: this award was replaced by a similarly-named successor award with different eligibility and voting criteria, and another successor was created with a different name but the same eligibility and voting criteria. Anomie⚔ 16:07, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Note

A discussion on this article is taking place at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football#Ballon d'Or (again). Regards, —WFC— 01:19, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

And now again at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football#Indef semi Ballon d'Or (1956–2009) Del♉sion23 (talk) 15:52, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 2 February 2013

ffwfw

69.119.136.205 (talk) 02:08, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed.- Happysailor (Talk) 02:47, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Brian Almeida

Who the hell is this Brian Almeida?? He's listed as winner in 87-88-89 and '92 :D

Joke's apart, it's a troll!! Here the list of winners from the official website.

--Lumage (talk) 22:42, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Potential (Temporary) Protection request on 13th Jan, 2014

This page has seen multiple edits by people tonight after Cristiano Ronaldo's win at the FIFA Ballon d'Or this year. People have been editing this article and adding him (and Lionel Messi as multiple winners where as this information belongs (and is correctly stated) on the FIFA Ballon d'Or page. I have undone the wrong edits on the page but if this continues, can we consider some (temporary) protection for this page? As is, there isn't much information here that's likely to change since this award is not given out any more.

JAnderton (talk) 20:15, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Alfredo di Stefano, Spanish?

In this article he is regarded as a Spanish player. While it is true that he has a Spanish citizenship I think he should be regarded as Argentine, the country where he was born. I admit that he played more games for Spain than Argentina, but he had an Argentine nationality before his Spanish one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.133.170.43 (talk) 06:52, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

He acquired Spanish citizenship in 1956 (as the article notes) so he won the award as a Spanish national. Anyone worth their salt knows that Di Stefano was born in Argentina anyway, so why go to lengths to point this out even more? Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits) 12:21, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
Regardless, Messi also acquired Spanish citizenship and he is listed as Argentine. It seems inconsistent to list one as a Spanish citizen and the other as an Argentine. This matters because Spain is counted with more players than it should and Argentina should get more. 141.133.169.134 (talk) 07:06, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
It's a fair point but I don't think that Messi is going to be joining Torres, Xavi and Casillas any time soon. On the other hand, di Stefano's international record speaks for itself. The players are listed by their footballing nationality, hence the lack of a United Kingdom flag. Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits) 07:36, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Regarding Di Stefano's citizenship, It would be correct to adress him as Argentine, to call him Spanish, he would have had to become Naturalized Spanish, instead of having dual citizenship. Naturalization is the process where a person renounces to his/her own nationality to aquire another country's nationality in it's full form, while citizenship at least in the case of Spanish citizenship, allows the person to keep his/her own nationality as long with the newly aquired one. In the case of Di Stefano, I don't really know what's wrong but the person who set him as Spanish keeps insisting on mantaining it that way, that considering this person is English and the connotations of it, is one of the reason's why I consider it unfair to keep it that way, is a statement that is untrue, and doesn't make any justice to sportists nor coutries like Argentina. I don't think it is a good thing to keep the article the way it is, because those people were making really big efforts for their countries, specially Argentines who love football and is one of their only joys in this world where the stronger opresses the weaker and the poorer has to forget about his rights in front of the richer, in a place like wikipedia something like this is an absolute disgrace, because those awards talk about people's hard work, people who devoted their lives to sports and millions of fans who had hopes on them.

About Messi, he's also a dual citizen, probably because he's alive this person doesn't set him as Spanish national. I hope this article is corrected, because is a wrong statement about Argentine football writen with a harmful intenttion considering footbalistic rivalities with England. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.45.8.69 (talk) 00:28, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

You can complain about unfairness all you want but the reality is that ol' Freddy chose to play for Spain. If you want to blame someone, then its him, Franco and the Argentine FA. Everybody knows Di Stefano is Argentine, but his footballing nation at that point was Spain. He was playing for the Spanish national team – Argentina told him to bugger off and they didn't want him to play for their national team.
The Messi argument is a nothing argument: has Messi played five times as many games for Spain as he has for Argentina? No. The comparison is a poor one. The nationality column refers to footballing nationality. Hence why Mark Lawrenson, if he were here, would have the Irish flag even though he's English. This isn't some attempt to "claim" Di Stefano as Spanish. Only an idiot would claim that. Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits)WIKIPROJECT ATHLETICS NEEDS YOU! 01:27, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

O lol, Wish I'd knew before who I was talking to,cause this is you:

http://media.skateboard.com.au/forum/images/chavs3.jpg

nice vocabulary, maybe you' ll get your degree! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.45.8.69 (talk) 03:12, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Nah, you've got it all wrong: this is me. Y no merece mucho el vocabulario en ingles a mi universidad, pero me ayuda a veces. Zing. Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits)WIKIPROJECT ATHLETICS NEEDS YOU! 14:50, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Hi guys, I'm the one that started this complaint and I have to say that we should leave it the way it is, for two reasons a) the footballing nation argument seems to apply to other footballers, making it consistent to have Di Stefano apply to the same rules b) until 1995 only European players were eligible, so if Di Stefano weren't Spanish he would have never been chosen (also why Maradona never won it)

However, the Argentine in me says maybe we can give him and players like him a double nationality rather than a single one, since this would make it 'fair'. This would rise all kinds of logistical problems though, mainly with the tables.

On the other hand, maybe we should clarify at some point in the article that Country and Nationality refer to Footballing Country and Footballing Nationality, to avoid future confusions 200.114.226.74 (talk) 03:51, 2 July 2009 (UTC)


Di Stefano and Sivori, double. Argentine flag must be included. My vote. Lucio Garcia 15:17, 13 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lucio Garcia (talk • contribs)

If Di Stefano and Sivori had been considered Argentines at the time when they won their awards, they would not have even been considered for the award as it was only for European footballers until 1995. Your vote is ignored. – PeeJay 15:38, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

"Your vote is ignored?" Who do you think you are??? Whatever, do what you want. They are Argies like me, you talk with reglaments, ok I see the point, but your brain "ignores" some other points. Bye. --Lucio Garcia 16:57, 13 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lucio Garcia (talk • contribs)


This is sad. Some people (I strongly suspect Spanish) keep insisting Di Stefano should have the Spanish flag but there is no evidence that he consider himself Spanish. The majority of people get citizenship to access services but Nationality is a different issue. He never resigned his Argentine Nationality so changing his flag for Spanish Nationality is arbitrary. The fact that he acquired a Spanish Citizenship does not mean he is not Argentine. Without evidence whether he consider himself Spanish rather than Argentine it doesn't make sense to change the flag to Spanish. The ruling before 1995 is irrelevant since the table is for information purposes (showing the Nationality of the person). He was born Argentine, he is Argentine, and he will probably die Argentine. Anything else is speculative and without a proper citation it should not be considered valid. And by the way, the current citation link does not even work). I tried to modify this but somebody with lots of sentiment and little basis modify this back to the previous version. I won't play back and forth with some crazy fanatic. Seriously guys, how long have he been in Spain? 60 years? Can't you just tell by his accent he is still Argentine? Don't be sad. Be more patient, eventually you'll have a great player (otherwise you still have Butragueño, jeje) ~~Mastropiero5

This is not an issue of what nationality a player considers himself to be; it is an issue of the nation the player was affiliated to when he won the award. Di Stefano had already been playing for Spain for two years when he came second in the 1956 Ballon d'Or vote, and he never played for another national team after that, so why - in a footballing sense - should he not be considered Spanish? – PeeJay 20:31, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
The problem is that he never stopped being "affiliated" to Argentina (if one can say that). He was still Argentine back then, and he still is. He was both Argentine and had a Spanish citizenship. Certainly there is room for debate about what flag to put. However, given this lack of a proper rule it is not appropriate to impose the Spanish flag and as I said before, the Argentine flag is more sensible unless good evidence is provided he favored one or the other. Let me rephrase your question then. Why should he not be considered Argentine? And beside, for god sake, do generally Spanish people consider immigrants with Spanish passport to be really Spanish? ~~Mastropiero5 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.152.182.176 (talk) 16:09, 14 April 2010 (UTC)


Is more simple to end whit this problem according that Di Stefano and Sivori have both Nationalities (Arg/spa in case of Di Stefano, and arg/Ita in case of Sivori) Is not fair if in both cases we have to chose only one Nationality. Well that is my solution, in my opinion if you like the idea everibody can be calm and proud. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.30.3.227 (talk) 04:23, 12 January 2011 (UTC)


If you look at this objectively then di Stefano should be listed as Spanish for the following reasons:
  • At that point the award was only applicable to European players, so if he was considered Argentinean then he would not be eligible.
  • Nationality here refers to national football team not citizenship/birth nationality, etc.

Nobody is denying that he is Argentinean but from a footballing perspective he is Spanish. Zarcadia (talk) 21:29, 12 January 2011 (UTC)


Im not telling that di Stefano should be not listed as Spanish because he is one in part, im just saying that he also shoud be appear as argentine, because since this award can be recived to any football player in the world that play in europe, Argentina and the others countries in the world fight for that his players can win this trophy. When di Stefano and Sivori win this award they were boht in the past only Argentines and in some years of theirs carres they bohts play for Argentina national football team and won championships, and when France Football determinate that any player in the world can win this tropy, in my opinion is more fair, if we share the gondel ball awards whit the origyn nationlity, not only in di Stefano and Sivori cases, in all the cases of two nationalities, european and not european, origyn national football team and not origyn national football team. IS JUST SHARE BEWTEEN BOHTS COUNTRIES OR NATIONALS FOOTBALL TEAMS, AS YOU PREFER. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.30.3.227 (talk) 02:40, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Only few lines down, in the "Multiple winner" table, Di Stéfano have correctly the two Flags. Di Stéfano and Sívori they are the only two argentinian players on "By Country" table, again, correctly. Why you discuss this facts in the same Wikipedia´s article??? They wasn´t Argentinian only in one Table, and, they are Argentinian in the others. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drakkarkyu (talk • contribs) 20:21, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Eurocentrist bias

The article is plagued with eurocentrist bias regarding the aspect of nationality. It's hardly arguable that the nationality of a player is determined by the national team they were playing for at the time of winning the award. Specially since many of the awards were given for performances at club level, not national team.

Using more important aspects such as culture, accent, place of growth and most of all self identification, seem much more apropiate way to determine nationality.

By the way, Calling an Argentine with an italian surename and a thick porteño accent who first set foot in Spain aged 28 Spanish is downright ridiculous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.255.20.54 (talk) 20:36, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

How would you define someone's culture/accent/self-identification in an encyclopaedic context? We can't exactly go around asking every footballer in the world what nationality they consider themselves to be, and even then it probably wouldn't be considered to be a legitimate source for use here. If someone is playing for a particular national team, then surely their nationality must be of that country? Oh, and I assume you're talking about Di Stefano there: didn't he take Spanish citizenship? – PeeJay 23:37, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Only few lines down, in the "Multiple winner" table, Di Stéfano have correctly the two Flags. Di Stéfano and Sívori they are the only two argentinian players on "By Country" table, again, correctly. Why you discuss this facts in the same Wikipedia´s article??? They wasn´t Argentinian only in one Table, and, they are Argentinian in the others. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drakkarkyu (talk • contribs) 20:23, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

All the reasons why Alfredo Di Stéfano and Omar Sívori should be considered argentine players (flag icon)

1 - Besides both not only having argentine citizenship, they were born in Argentina. Alfredo Di Stéfano not even has spanish ancesdants, his ancestors are italian, irish and french.

2 - The flag is mixed in the same article, sometimes Di Stéfano has the argentine flag and sometimes the spanish flag

3 - It's inconsistent with Alfredo Di Stéfano's article, which refers him as argentine

4 - Di Stéfano played for the argentine national team, and the only achievements he got at national team level was with Argentina (1947 Copa América). Omar Sívori also played with the argentine national team, and they only achievements he got at national level was with this team. (1957 Copa América, 1956 Colombo cup)

5 - They both developed their raw soccer skills and their professional soccer skills in Argentina. One played in Argentina until 22 and the other until 23 years old. In the case of Alfredo Di Stéfano , there is a soccer newspaper which its online version allows questions from the readers to Alfredo Di Stéfano, I asked myself many questions to him and in one of them he cited to learn how to play soccer from the fowards from "La Máquina", legendary soccer team from argentine club River Plate which its fowards were Moreno, Labruna, Pedernera and Loustau. Di Stéfano went to play in the spanish league at the late age of 27

6 - They both are recognized by spanishs to be argentine ballon d'or winners, see the section "by country" (por pais) of the most readed spanish soccer newspaper [7]

Those are all very good reasons. The only reason I can offer you why they have different flags next to their names is that they changed their citizenships before winning their Ballons d'Or; to all intents and purposes, Di Stefano was Spanish when he won his and Sivori was Italian. They had even played for the national teams of those countries before winning their awards. No one is denying that they have Argentine heritage (we even make a point of explaining the discrepancy in the article), but in football terms, they had forsaken their Argentine status. – PeeJay 20:07, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Only few lines down, in the "Multiple winner" table, Di Stéfano have correctly the two Flags. Di Stéfano and Sívori they are the only two argentinian players on "By Country" table, again, correctly. And again, Di Stéfano have three flags (Argentina, Colombia, Spain) perfectly. Why you discuss this facts in the same Wikipedia´s article??? They wasn´t Argentinian only in one Table, and, they are Argentinian in the others. In the other hand, when you have a method for a human being was born in one country and erase or reborn in other, well, i will reconsider yours explanations. At this time, its impossible! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drakkarkyu (talk • contribs) 20:31, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

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Multiple winners

Someone to add back the flags after have been deleted ! And what about a complete list with winners runners up and third place (to can separate the players with same number of wins)?--Alexiulian25 (talk) 20:27, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

As I have mentioned to you before, we can't use flags as a sole indicator of nationality per MOS:FLAGS. It's fine without them and we don't need runners-up and third place, having multiple winners is enough. NapHit (talk) 23:58, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
We can include more information in the multiple winners table, to can inform better the readers, and to be a runner-up or third place is also a big honour ! If I add it, it can not be deleted because I do not break the rules !--Alexiulian25 (talk) 23:18, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
What are you talking about? If you add something, another editor is well within his or her rights to undo your changes. The "rules" are defined by consensus of opinion among Wikipedia editors, and clearly opinion is quite frequently against you. – PeeJay 23:26, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Multiple winners

Player 1st 2nd 3rd Years
 Johan Cruyff (NED) 3 number of 2nd number of 3rd 1971, 1973, 1974
 Michel Platini (FRA) 3 1983, 1984, 1985

Something like this ... will be more details in the table about the players.--Alexiulian25 (talk) 23:30, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

We don't need this level of detail. The table is called multiple winners for a reason, adding second and third places is irrelevant. Stop your crusade to alter this page, it's fine the way it is. It's not just me saying that, but a lot of other editors as well. NapHit (talk) 00:17, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
This thing I do not understand - "we do not need this level of details" - I also had some articles not accepted because was not notable ! But Wikipedia is supposed to be an encyclopedia - and an encyclopedia should keep all kind of information as long have references!
I'm not going to down this road again with you. Wikipedia is not a statistical website. The most important part of this article is who won it the most. You have multiple editors against this idea. Just leave it, go and make edits on another page. You've been blocked before for not adhering to consensus, yet you seem to have not learnt from this! NapHit (talk) 00:36, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
The most important part is everything you can add in the table about it. Why the same article : FIFA Ballon d'Or can have 3 columns for First place, Second place, Third place!?--Alexiulian25 (talk) 01:30, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Wins by player section

It looks like this section is only supposed to be people who have placed top 3 more than once, but a recent addition includes a person who placed only once. Would my assumption be correct? lukini (talk | contribs) 22:59, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

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france football Ballon d'Or, European, African, European club, FIFA Ballon d'Or

The France football magazine, did award a Ballon d'Or for best African player of the year between 1970 and 1994, this article is about France football magazine award Ballon d'Or for best European player of the year that was awarded from 1956 until 1995 to players at Europe, and also about the award after 1995 up until 2009 including non European players at European clubs. (that's why the African one was not awarded anymore by France football after 1994)

there should be at least some mention regarding this, and the info at the template "about" should be modified so it does not state just that this is the previous award. Because it wasn't the only one. When I mean the template I mean this template as is currently on the article,


This page is about the former award. For the current award, see FIFA Ballon d'Or. For the new European Player of the Year award, see UEFA Best Player in Europe Award.


at least it should be fixed to show something like this


This page is about the former European-only award. For the former African-only award, see African Footballer of the Year. For the current world award, see FIFA Ballon d'Or. For the new European Player of the Year award, see UEFA Best Player in Europe Award.


also lets not forget, that ballon d'Or translation from French to English is golden ball, remember that France football is written on French, and African player of the year golden ball, is not other thing that African version of the European version of the pre-unification of the Ballon d'Or, so even if I believe that the European ballon d'Or may be more or may be less important that African ballon door both awards were given out by the same guys until the same date when both were unified into a single ballon d'Or, that was given to players of any nationality that played on a European club (so African players could win it after 1995 as George Weah did, but only if they played on Europe, as George Weah did,

I understand that trying to keep it simple, African player of the year ballon d'Or is not even mentioned on the this article that try to cover European national player only player of the year "ballon d'Or" (until 1995)/ and/or any player nation, European clubs player of the year "Ballon d'Or" after 1995 up until 2009. But even if its confusing, (more since CAF federation started sponsoring a "new" "different" continuation African player of the year after France football stop giving out those there.

But I believe that there should be a way, be it splitting the article or including some info to clarify that before 1994 there were 2 ballon d'Or 1 for European clubs and one for African clubs both by France football magazine, and after that date, both awards European and African were "stopped" and the "new" ballon d'Or for players of any nation "that play at a European club" was used as a continuation until 2009 when France football stop giving it away and was unified/replaced with FIFA ballon d'Or that is given to a player of any nationality that plays on a club on any continent for the first time ever.

The CAF did award in parallel to France football a golden ball in 1993 and 1994 so there was a European ballon d'Or 1993 and 1994 by France Football African ballon d'Or 1993 and 1994 by France Football and African golden ball by Confederation of African Football (CAF). After that France football only awarded only European/Europe-based player of the year until 2009 when FIFA took over after the 2007 agreement and awarded world player of the year of any nation (new/current FIFA ballon d'Or)

because the current format, misleads as if there didn't exist the ballon d'or before 1994 outside Europe. But there was one equal given out by the same magazine. But instead of Europe it was given to African players of African clubs.

You may argue that the name may or may not be ballon d'or, but isn't the France football magazine written on French? So if you go to the French language wiki article they included the African version of the ballon d'or, but since the first ballon d'Or was European, they don't call it "European ballon d'Or" because its the one that went from 1995 to 2009 not just for European players, (even if were just for European club players) and since the FIFA ballon d'or its unrestricted by country, or club confederation. With eurocentrism in mind, its not complicated to mess things up.

I don't ask to change everything , just to fix the error, somehow someway with no eurocentrism,

I made a mess trying to explain it because its complicated. But im sure, that some editor that has expertise on this, may know how to solve the problem and reflect the true on the article keeping it like it is with a few minor edits with links to the African Footballer of the Year even if as you can see here [8] European footballer of the yea European Footballer of the Year stills redirect here, same as Golden Ball (France Football).

I believe that some ways to "start" fixing it.
ballon d'Or, written with no caps variants on the redirects and also Golden Ball (France Football) redirect, should be redirected to a disambiguation page, so "European player of the year" and " African player of the year", articles maybe with range of year on the name of article clarifying respect of each certain period of time. will be better than is right now.
a good example:

this article may not be the only one that will need this fix, i belive that some of the related articles will need adjustments, at least, edited {{about}} template.

well im very sorry for the mess of my coment regarding the article showing the problems i see. and thank you all in advance for your coments even if they are in favor, aganist or neutral regarding doing changes based on the info i tried to provide, i belive tbelievel source and references can be found on current articles:

Also the issue that from 2005 up untill 2009 FIFA World Player of the Year and Ballon d'Or (1956-2009) were awarded to the exact same players, make it more complicated, as it was the african 1993 and 1994 african france football ballon d'Or and CAF golden ball.

some times redirects at wikipedia or article wording missleads, and when something seems as complicated as this, mixed with the lack of reference/link for the african African of the award but plenty for the europeanEuropean with articles that may be or renamed/split/merge and edited so shows the facts with no eurocentrism, will be way better. if you have read this far, im sorry for all english mistakes damaging your eye retina and giving you headache but wikipedia deserve the truth, all the truth and only the truth

i will not edit regarding this on any of the articles, but i belive the problem is present and some more experienced editor should take a look and see what is all this about, and if, like i believe something that should be fixed, one way or another (Edit, merge, split, rename create, etc,...) --WiZaRd SaiLoR (talk) 16:00, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

I tried to help you out @WiZaRd SaiLoR:, unfortunately, the changes were reverted. TheBigJagielka (talk) 14:02, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 24 October 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. To be clear, this will result in one article (this one) on the award from 1956–2009 and 2016-, and a second, FIFA Ballon d'Or, on the award from 2010-2011. I will also move the template back. Cúchullain t/c 15:49, 31 October 2016 (UTC)


Ballon d'Or (1956–2009) → Ballon d'Or – The award was revived in 2016, see Ballon d'Or 2016. 95.133.148.13 (talk) 12:17, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Support TheBigJagielka (talk) 13:57, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Discussion

I think we should preserve the history of the target to try to avoid repeating it.

  • 13:51, 11 January 2013‎ Edupedro (talk | contribs | block)‎ . . (39 bytes) (-74)‎ . . (Undid revision 532538799 by Edupedro (talk)) (rollback: 2 edits | undo | thank)
  • 13:44, 11 January 2013‎ Edupedro (talk | contribs | block)‎ . . (113 bytes) (+74)‎ . . (Disambiguation) (undo | thank)
  • 09:22, 4 September 2012‎ WaitingForConnection (talk | contribs | block)‎ . . (39 bytes) (+9)‎ . . (Undid revision 510728831 by Thumperward (talk), with no prejudice to this redirect's long term future. Most of the links to Ballon d'Or will currently point to the old award.) (undo | thank)
  • 08:59, 4 September 2012‎ Thumperward (talk | contribs | block)‎ . . (30 bytes) (-9)‎ . . (re-point redirect) (undo | thank)
  • 08:59, 4 September 2012‎ Thumperward (talk | contribs | block)‎ . . (39 bytes) (+39)‎ . . (Thumperward moved page Ballon d'Or to Ballon d'Or (1956–2009): per discussion at WT:FOOTY, moving the "old" award to a disambiguated title) (thank)

The discussion at WT:FOOTY referred to in the move of 4 September 2012 seems to be archived at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football/Archive_65#Ballon_d.27Or (but there is much more discussion in the archives). [9]

In glorious hindsight, it seems to me that there should always have been either an article (perhaps an overview, index or list, but some sort of article) or a DAB at the base name. The current situation is rather strange. Andrewa (talk) 04:45, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Individual Winners

This isn't consistent. I take the point about not including the players that only came 2nd or 3rd, but if you include Sammer/Figo, the others who won it once surely need including?

Would you discount Leicester as winning the Prem cos they've only won it once? Same principle to me.

Thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nda1981 (talk • contribs) 22:44, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Well, yes, we absolutely shouldn't be including players who have only finished 2nd or 3rd in the voting. But to be clear, we don't include players who have only won the award once unless they have also finished 2nd or 3rd in the voting in another year. This prevents the list from becoming too unwieldy. We don't need to list every single winner in a table based on the number of times they've won, since we have a full, chronological list of winners above. – PeeJay 16:31, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
So why include Sammer and Figo? Which years did they finish 2nd or 3rd in the voting? Nda1981 (talk) 13:09, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
No idea. I've deleted them. – PeeJay 14:18, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

Winners List

For completeness, the winners list should include the FIFA Ballon d'Or recipients in 2010-2015. For the purposes of historical records, FIFA Ballons d'Or are recognised on the all-time list of Ballon d'Or recipients. It is therefore incorrect to list Ronaldo and Messi as only two and one time recipients of the award when France Football recognise them as being four and five time recipients, as per http://www.francefootball.fr/ballon-d-or/palmares/ - Ck786 (talk) 20:53, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Support, or at least list FIFA Ballon d'or winners in "Wins by player" / "Wins by country" / "Wins by club" sections. Cirolchou (talk) 7:21, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
I agree completely.--Dipralb (talk) 15:02, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
IMHO, this would be a great solution.--Dipralb (talk) 15:09, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Voting process

I was just having a look, do you think we should add a section about the voting process how it works? Who votes? ect? Govvy (talk) 12:07, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 September 2018

The Spanish flag in Di Stefano and Luis Suárez is wrong. It is the one from the dictatorship times. The one that appears next to Spain should be used. Calamidad (talk) 17:24, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, but that was the flag that was in use in Spain when Di Stefano and Suarez won their awards. We don't update flags to match the modern one, we use the one that was in use at the time. – PeeJay 18:16, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

Winners by Club and Country ordering needs to be consistent

Real Madrid now have 11 total wins from 7 players and should now be ranked first amongst clubs to be consistent with the country rankings. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samd2609 (talk • contribs) 21:53, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 December 2018

Please Add 2007 Ballon d'Or in the list "List by Player" 51.36.76.230 (talk) 10:41, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

This will not be done. The "Wins by player" list only includes one-time winners if they have also finished 2nd or 3rd at some point; Kaka has only ever won the award, never finished 2nd or 3rd, so we don't need to add him. – PeeJay 11:31, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Why no one time winners?

I'm confused as to why the winning players table doesn't include one-time winners? It's not a rule I've seen applied anywhere else. If someone has won an award, they should appear on a table of the winners. It's not like there's so many that it would make it ridiculous. I'd like someone to explain the rationale behind it. Crowsus (talk) 17:37, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

How many would there be? I'm fine with doing it, it's just that no one has ever added them all wholesale, they just like to add ones they think have been missed off, which doesn't tally with the inclusion criteria. As long as it's just one-time winners and not one-time runners-up, I could definitely go along with this, as long as the number we would have to add wouldn't make the table look unwieldy. – PeeJay 12:42, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
Cool, I'll count and let you know the potential number before changing anything.... Crowsus (talk) 13:23, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
@PeeJay2K3: Hi, there's 17 one-time winners. Is that too many to add? Quite an interestingly high number of players who were judged to have a 'peak year' that was never repeated, but then again I suppose 3 is a very small number for a shortlist, most of them would have been in the top 10 several more times if it went that far. Let me know, I suppose it would extend the list quite a bit. Crowsus (talk) 23:35, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
To be honest, I think it would make the table a bit too long, but if it stops no0bs from coming along and adding their favourite player because he wasn’t on the list before, I guess it could be beneficial. – PeeJay 23:48, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

It is time to change the main picture of this article

The main picture of this article should be of Messi or Ronaldo or, preferably, both, and no more of Platini, given that Messi and Ronaldo won it 5 times, as opposed to Platini, who won it "only" 3 times.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Nbro (talk • contribs) 15:07, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 September 2019

5 (2008, 2013, 2014, 2016, 2017) Nauman7Iqbal (talk) 15:22, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 15:44, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:29, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

 Done This file has been removed from the Copyright violation above. Regards, Jkg1997 (talk • contribs • CA) 17:43, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 December 2019

Change current winner of the FIFA Ballon d'or from Luka Modric to Lionel Messi — Preceding unsigned comment added by Editboi0 (talk • contribs) 21:30, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Why Cruyff 1973 is Ajax?

I am Italian and in Italian version of Wikipedia 1973 Ballon d'or was won by Cruyff while he playing for Barcelona, not Ajax. Why is mentioned his first team of the calendar year while for Gullit, Weah and the others it is mentioned the second one? Thanks and sorry about my English. Alessandraronaldo (talk) 21:43, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 March 2020

You forgot to include Luka Modrić in the "Wins by player" table. 147.32.96.50 (talk) 22:05, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: Ballon d'Or#Wins by player says: "One-time winners are only included if they have also finished second or third in another year." Other players are omitted for the same reason. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:45, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 April 2020

Dynamo Kyiv had 3 ballon winners for a total of 3 times 2601:581:C300:1BAF:990E:464:1384:2837 (talk) 01:20, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Not done: Oleg Blokhin (1975) and Igor Belanov (1986) is two. Only those are listed in the article and the sources I found. Who is supposed to be the third? If you think of Lev Yashin (1963) then it was Dynamo Moscow. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:29, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 April 2020

Luis Figo misses in the 'Wins by player'-list while he is listed above as the 2000 ballon d'or winner. 2001:1C03:6605:600:3169:97BC:1E3B:1AFD (talk) 18:28, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

 Not done As highlighted in that section, "One-time winners are only included if they have also finished second or third in another year." This doesn't apply to Figo. Joseph2302 (talk) 19:39, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 June 2020

Di Stéfano is Argentinian, not from Spain, who has the rewards and recognition of Argentina, not Spain. I hope this mistake can be solved, regards! Pancho22-rc (talk) 19:07, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done He played for Spanish national team while he received those awards and that's why the flagicon is Spanish. Govvy (talk) 19:10, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Some mistakes

Says that 3 Portugease have won it in total by nation list, but player list shows only 2 (C.R. and Eusebio).

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:491A:D900:70D7:32D0:C497:98C6 (talk) 20:14, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

There are some mistakes about the players changing team through the year.

Luis Suarez in 1961 from Barcelona to Inter Bernd Shuster in 1980 from Kholn to Barcelona Boniek in 1982 from Widzew Lodz to Juventus Simonsen in 1983 from Charlton to Velije Elkjaer in 1984 from Lokeren to Hellas Verona Bergkamp in 1993 from Ajax to Inter Klinsmann in 1995 from Tottenham Hotspurs to Bayern Munich Shearer in 1996 from Blackburn Rovers to Newcastle


Please add it.

Moreover, Cristiano Ronaldo won 4 Ballon d'Or with Real and 1 with United so I feel uncorrect to say Cristiano Ronaldo of Real Madrid.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Alessandraronaldo25 (talk • contribs)

You do it, ya lazy bugger. Nah, seriously, you have an account, you could easily do this yourself. – PeeJay 18:47, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
Actually, they can't because their account isn't autoconfirmed (only 2 edits). But would need sources for these changes anyway. Joseph2302 (talk) 19:25, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 March 2021

Jean-Pierre Papin, who won in 1991, is missing from the list of wins by player. 83.84.155.114 (talk) 08:26, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

 Not done. Check the note above: "One-time winners are only included if they have also finished second or third in another year." ◢  Ganbaruby!  (Say hi!) 08:43, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 March 2021

Ricardo Kaka' (winner in 2007) is not listed in the Wins by player table and has to be added to the list. 109.26.31.51 (talk) 22:11, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: Ballon d'Or#Wins by player says: "One-time winners are only included if they have also finished second or third in another year." PrimeHunter (talk) 23:00, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 July 2021

U forgot to mention 2007 ballon dor winner.....kaka 116.72.140.10 (talk) 08:32, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: See discussion above. "One-time winners are only included if they have also finished second or third in another year." ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:53, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 September 2021

Change Messi having won both the UEFA Men’s Best Player award and the Ballon D’or during the 19-20 season to having just won the Ballon D’or. The UEFA Men’s Best Player Award went to Virgil van Dijk, not Messi. 116.36.131.82 (talk) 18:54, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. I don't see a mention of the Men's Best Player award. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:01, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 September 2021 (2)

I’m not sure how to indicate the change that is needed in a “change X to Y format”. The list of winners show double crosses to indicate winners of Ballon d’or having won the UEFA Men’s Best Player award for the corresponding year as well (also indicated coloring the cell red). However, for the 2019-2020 season Virgil van Dijk was the winner for the UEFA Men’s Best Player (but the list indicates that Messi won the award). 116.36.131.82 (talk) 19:50, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Umm, the double crosses indicates winning the The Best FIFA Men's Player, not UEFA. Messi did win in 2019. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (talk) 07:01, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Portuguese winners

It seems that only two Portuguese players won the Ballon d'Or: Cristiano Ronaldo (6 times) and Eusébio (1 time). Nonetheless, it states that three players have won it 7 times total.

Luis Figo also won it. – PeeJay 21:08, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
And Ronaldo only won it five times, so the maths checks out. – PeeJay 21:08, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

One winner, two clubs

What about the Ballon d'Or winners who played for two teams throughout a year? Are both clubs recognized as those whose player won the award? – Виктор Не Вацко 17:50, 10 June 2017 (UTC+2)

Shame most of the people voting for this have a yellow vest to complain about petrol, setting fire to the railway or just moaning about fishing. Who cares who gets the award not recognise seriously. Just eating garlic could win this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.16.133.147 (talk) 19:25, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Misinformation regarding voting

"based on voting by football journalists, from 1956 to 2006.[2] After 2007, coaches and captains of national teams were also given the right to vote" this entire section is incorrect. the only time captains and coaches voted for it was when it was merged with the FIFA award. before it and after the separation it has been only journalists. also why is the source on that misinformation allowed to be paywalled? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Destroyallpumans (talk • contribs) 08:12, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

It's clearly not misinformation, it's just it hasn't been updated to reflect the change that was made after the two awards separated again. Can you provide a source please? – PeeJay 11:45, 11 October 2021 (UTC)


Here is an article about it being voted by journalists before the 2010 merger: https://www.france24.com/en/20100705-prestigious-player-year-awards-merge-football-ballon-dor-fifa "The Ballon d'Or, widely seen as football's most prestigious individual honour, is voted for by journalists"

Here is an article from France football saying that currently it is voted by journalists: https://www.francefootball.fr/news/Lionel-messi-remporte-le-ballon-d-or-france-football-pour-la-sixieme-fois-de-l-histoire/1085998 . it says "Au point, donc, d'être élu meilleur joueur du monde par notre jury de 180 journalistes." which means he was elected the best player in the world by our panel of 180 journalists.


there are also several articles detailing the votes of the journalists, none listing the captain/manager votes because they dont vote on it: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/world/ballon-dor-2019-result-voting-full-votes-lionel-messi-virgil-van-dijk-award-a9230886.html https://www.marca.com/en/football/international-football/2019/12/03/5de662d1268e3e24248b45c8.html https://en.as.com/en/2019/12/03/soccer/1575361447_228718.html


The wiki page should say that it was voted by journalists from 1956 to 2009, was voted by journalists, captains and managers during its merger with the FIFA award, and it returned to journalists only once they separated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Destroyallpumans (talk • contribs) 15:25, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 November 2021

Change messi won 6 times to 5 times Ballon D'or as per present stats. 37.186.53.240 (talk) 11:50, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:59, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 November 2021 (2)

Change New Ballon d'Or Winner to Chellappan 32 37.186.53.240 (talk) 11:58, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:59, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 November 2021

Messi has won the ballon dor 7 times 80.5.52.12 (talk) 21:00, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

 Already done Already done by Ademkader PianoDan (talk) 21:19, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 November 2021 (2)

Your list of winners isn’t accurate Di Stefano wasn’t Spanish he was Argentine So was Sivori

Your own articles state they are Argentines

You need to remove to Spain add to argentina. The only reason why they won under that country is because only Europeans were allowed to win at the time. Argentina has 10 balón d’or not 7 Eddiefreedman (talk) 22:07, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:16, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
Both cases are explained in the footnotes. Both players were registered to European national teams at the time of their Ballons d'Or. Ytoyoda (talk) 22:19, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Ukr

How come 3 players from dynamo kiev have won it but by club shows 2 ? 90.243.211.146 (talk) 15:17, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Blokhin and Belanov won as Dynamo players, Shevchenko won it after he moved to MIlan. Ytoyoda (talk) 22:22, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Most Nominations

Why does it say 17 nominations for Ronaldo while he had 12? 207.47.92.114 (talk) 20:54, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

That's because he actually has 17 nominations. He's been a top 3 finisher 12 times, which is probably what you're thinking of. A nomination means you're in the 30-player shortlist. Ytoyoda (talk) 22:31, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 November 2021

Section winners- subsection wins by player: George weah is missing. Thank you 74.14.174.95 (talk) 03:54, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

 Not done The subsection reads: One-time winners are only included if they have also finished second or third in another year. Weah has only won the award once and has not finished second or third in any year. Ytoyoda (talk) 04:48, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Voting details still incorrect. Captains and managers haven't been voting on it for years.

"based on voting by football journalists, from 1956 to 2006.[2] After 2007, coaches and captains of national teams were also given the right to vote" this entire section is incorrect still.

Here is an article about it being voted by journalists before the 2010 merger: https://www.france24.com/en/20100705-prestigious-player-year-awards-merge-football-ballon-dor-fifa "The Ballon d'Or, widely seen as football's most prestigious individual honour, is voted for by journalists"

Here is an article from France football saying that currently it is voted by journalists: https://www.francefootball.fr/news/Lionel-messi-remporte-le-ballon-d-or-france-football-pour-la-sixieme-fois-de-l-histoire/1085998 . it says "Au point, donc, d'être élu meilleur joueur du monde par notre jury de 180 journalistes." which means he was elected the best player in the world by our panel of 180 journalists.


there are also several articles detailing the votes of the journalists, none listing the captain/manager votes because they dont vote on it: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/world/ballon-dor-2019-result-voting-full-votes-lionel-messi-virgil-van-dijk-award-a9230886.html https://www.marca.com/en/football/international-football/2019/12/03/5de662d1268e3e24248b45c8.html https://en.as.com/en/2019/12/03/soccer/1575361447_228718.html


The wiki page should say that it was voted by journalists from 1956 to 2009, was voted by journalists, captains and managers during its merger with the FIFA award, and it returned to journalists only once they separated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Destroyallpumans (talk • contribs) 08:16, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Ta

Jccvvb B nu 2001:2042:6E01:5400:51BF:412E:6247:122 (talk) 12:34, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

We also need a lighter blue French flag

We need a lighter blue French flag to show how it has changed right now it seems like since the founding of the Ballon D’or the French flag has always been the navy blue variant which is not for example Neymar having navy blue French flag with Paris saint germain is incorrect it should be lighter blue because the flag hadn’t changed at that point same for Antoine Greizzman Black roses124 (talk) 10:28, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Name of the article

I was wondering why we have separate article for FIFA Ballon d'Or and Ballon d'Or but not also European player of the Year which was award before 2007 and was counterpart to South American Footballer of the Year and such. Yes, I know FIFA Ballon d'Or was fusion with FIFA World Player of the Year and Ballon D'or but it was always more recognisable as continuation of Ballon d'or. In the past Ballon d'or was considered as more prestigous award than FIFA player of the year (at least until 2007 when both were more prestigous) because of is much older and was considered as first individual award with global popularity, European awardws always had global recognition and are the oldest (for example Champions League is older than Copa Libertadores). FIFA player of the year was introduced in 90's but never outgone or come close to Ballon d'or due to Ballon d'or has historical significance. Dawid2009 (talk) 11:40, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Articles needs to have more information?

This award was multiple times criticised for focussiing on offensive players. Also, there are no informations about additional awards like "Stricker of the Year" and such. I am also not sure why FIFA World Player of the Year has in one article list for both "men and women", meanwhile Ballon d'Or got separate article for Ballon d'Or Féminin, yet there is template Template:Ballon d'Or Féminin recipients where FIFA Women's World Player of the Year is listed as subtopic of that despite fat these ones are two diffrent things.

I was wondering does it article could be changed from the list to the article. There are so many infoswhich could be added to that article. For example there is no slightest information about fact that Ballon d'Or is also gala/ceremony where football stars can meet outside"sport life" and talk each other, also with other famous people, it was even mentioned in the Netflix film Gold Stars: The Story of FIFA World Cup Tournaments, which explain who can got invitation for such event. Dawid2009 (talk) 11:40, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

FA

I was wondering does it "list" meets riteria to be FA. I kept this quoestion on User:ChrisTheDude's talk page and for now User:Amakuru already replied there. Everyone is welcome to the discussion. What you do think about this content. Personally I would avoid for giving for that list FA, or GA, recently I made two small changes in that article but I think it need some work. Dawid2009 (talk) 11:40, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Citizenship issues

Two players that won the award, Alfredo Di Stéfano and Enrique Omar Sívori, were born in Argentina and held double citizenship (Di Stéfano Spanish, Sívoti Italian). But they played for both their country of birth and the adoptive's National Teams, at a time when that was acceptable. Specifically, Sívori played quite a bit more for Argentina than for Italy. I understand that at the time only European players could win the award, but shouldn't at least the page recognize their country of birth, particularly given how they played professionally there for many years? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.8.82.206 (talk) 22:47, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 October 2022

The "Wins by player" table does not list Kaká (2008). Kaká is properly listed as winner on the year-by-year table and at the per country table. Igor F J Silva (talk) 23:41, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

@Igor F J Silva  Not done Ballon d'Or#Wins by player : Note: One-time winners are only included if they have also finished second or third in another year. So players like Kaká shall not be included here. --Miha2020 (talk) 14:05, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Portugal number of players won is 4

Portugal has 4 players, and not 3, that won ballon d`or, and therefore has 8 wins and not 7, and that makes Portugal with the most wins per country. List of Portuguese winners 

 Cristiano Ronaldo
 Deco
 Luis Figo
 Eusebio 2001:818:E85A:B400:F053:DAB4:67AB:F6E4 (talk) 18:47, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Answer: Its not true. Deco has never won the ballon d'or. 00:10, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Clubs

For clarity, since the 2022 award, the Ballon d'Or has been given in recognition of players' performances in the previous season, not the previous calendar year. In the past, we have indicated players who moved clubs midway through the year since their performances for both clubs were taken into account when voting for the Ballon d'Or took place. This year, Sadio Mané finished second based on his performances in the 2021–22 season. It therefore makes no sense to list him as a Bayern player in the table, even if he moved there between the end of last season and the awarding of the Ballon d'Or. For the purposes of this table, Mané is a Liverpool player. – PeeJay 14:19, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Change the club of Sadio Mane

Mane should be a Bayern munich player as before the ceremony he had already signed for Bayern Munich 45.64.223.100 (talk) 18:33, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

I addressed this in the thread immediately above this one. It doesn't matter that he moved to Bayern Munich, since the award is given for his performances in the 2021–22 season, when he was still a Liverpool player. – PeeJay 19:58, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Special:diff/1116772466

@Fcbpess: Could you please explain why you [manually] reverted all my changes based on LEquipe ( excatly the same source and even link whih you aepted for example here, you kept that and verified there). Could you please ask what excatly I should explain in my edit? Are you sure all my changes at Special:diff/1116772466 were wrong or should be called into question? I am glad you are opened for dicsussion, so I am also going discuss it with you and wait for opinion of other users/pagewatchers. If there will not be opposition in next seven days I am going to restore my edition, eventually we can always make RFC turn. If you eventually mean that text which I added is not in encyclopedic/grammatic tone then I may ask you for help as English is not my first language (it is priror to Wikipedia to rather help eah other than edit war). All my warmest wishes. Dawid2009 (talk) 13:40, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

The text was poorly written, with numerous grammar mistakes and bad formatting. Additionally, the link needs to be referenced properly. Fcbpess (talk) 14:03, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
See for yourself. That's the paragraph you had added: Fcbpess (talk) 14:10, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Since 2022/2023 France Football have made modification of rules for Ballon d Or. Nowdays football players receive awards not for achivements made during last yer but for last season.[1] However two the most important changes for that plebiscite were: 1only top 100 countries from Ranking FIFA are allowed to !vote 2Carrer's achivement/reputation is not taken into account. 2007-2022 was the only time in football history where 170 coutries (including small where football is not tradition, like Oceania countries). One controvesrial thing about that plebistice was fact that this award was more outstandingly dominated by Cristiano and Messi than other ones like UEFA Men's Player of the Year Award or FIFA Player of the Year. Nowdays Ballon d Or has more similar criteria to UEFA Men's Player of the Year Award not only due to fat season is taken into account but from the pool of top 100 countries prestigue of !voters is more comparable with for example UEFA Men's Player of the Year Award or Ballon d Or during 1956-2006 era where only European electors were allowed to !vote.[2]

Specifically, - instead of –, random ! ("!voters"), lack of ' when needed, informal "Cristiano and Messi", "nowdays", bad punctuation. Fcbpess (talk) 14:24, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
I have restored the text in question and tidied it up to correct the grammar/punctuation issues raised above. I think the text is relevant, since it discusses changes to the rules of the Ballon d'Or, and also it's much better to tidy up text that needs improvement, rather than just deleting it on sight. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 20:13, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
@Fcbpess and Amakuru: Thank to pointing the issues and engaging into the discussion, thank Amakuru for constributing into it too. I am also sorry for late reply as lately today I have time for response. A propos Special:diff/1116772466 how about reading photo of Ronaldo Nazario who is the youngest winner of Ballon d Or and the only player who won it during cotemporary "age for Kopa Trophy", hw about reading photo of Beckenbauer who won Ballon d Or two times and was in top 5 ten times what is quite impressive as defender (yes, he was 10 times in top 5 and even consetuively 7 times as top 5 from 1970 Ballon d'Or to 1976 Ballon d'Or wht is sources in the articles) ? I would also change the text under the photo "Cristiano Ronaldo (left) and Lionel Messi won the award a combined 12 out of 13 times between 2008 and 2021." for sligtly more neutral, for example "Cristiano Ronaldo (left) and Lionel Messi won the award respectivelly 5 and 7 times" or even "Cristiano Ronaldo (left) and Lionel Messi won the award a combined 12 out of 14 times between 2007 and 2021, during time when Ballon d Or had the most global procedure in !voting process". Cheers Dawid2009 (talk) 14:59, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
If thre will be no opposition in about next three days I will readd photos of Beckenbauer and Ronaldo Nazario. I will also change description "12 out of 13" for more neutral. Any suggestions or remarks are welcomable. Cheers. Dawid2009 (talk) 20:23, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
There is no need to add too many photos, especially when your English isn't very good. – PeeJay 15:45, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://www.lequipe.fr/France-Football/Actualites/Ballon-d-or-quatre-changements-pour-l-histoire/1321452
  2. ^ https://www.lequipe.fr/France-Football/Actualites/Ballon-d-or-quatre-changements-pour-l-histoire/1321452

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 09:23, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 December 2022

change respetively five and seven times to respectively five and seven times Bman61z (talk) 17:09, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

 Done RealAspects (talk) 17:13, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Three different decades...

Hey there... Lionel Messi is the only footballer in the history of the Ballon d'Or to win it in three different decades (00's-2009, 00's-2010,2011,2012,2015,2019 and 20's-2021). As such, Wikipedia should mention that in its related page "Ballon d'Or". It is simply beyond my understanding why you keep letting some "users" deleting my edits regarding the above achievement. It is a indeed FACT but you keep letting them delete it... Can anybody explain to me what is happening here ?? Dim. Nor. 86 (talk) 13:36, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Just because something is true doesn't mean it's encyclopaedically relevant. The fact that he has won Ballons d'Or in three different decades is actually totally trivial, since decades are totally arbitrary social constructs. What's more interesting is that he won seven Ballons d'Or in the space of 13 years. That is a testament to both his longevity and his continued excellence. – PeeJay 23:52, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
Agree. The fact he won in three decades is really just trivia and should not be included. Kante4 (talk) 09:27, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
Yep, it's trivia, not important enough to warrant a mention. NapHit (talk) 09:48, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
@Dim. Nor. 86: Whenever you want to apologise for your outburst, you know where my talk page is. – PeeJay 10:37, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
You should apologise to all of us for years and years during which you were ridiculously fighting against creating a page with all the Ballon d'Or winners together, going against common sense and, more importantly, all the sources in the world and making the page completely useless. You should've stayed away from the Ballon d'Or page for good after that. 78.45.227.119 (talk) 14:56, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
And who are you exactly? – PeeJay 17:18, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Luka Modric

Why Luka Modric and Karim Benzema are not added as winners below 149.62.208.130 (talk) 19:21, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

One-time winners are only listed if they have also finished in the top three in another year. – PeeJay 21:38, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 January 2023

Franz Beckenbauer was not the only defender to win the award - as stated. Fabio Cannavaro has also won it. He was a defender. 31.124.102.67 (talk) 15:57, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

You can't possibly be this dense. The image captain says Beckenbauer is the only defender to win the award twice, which Cannavaro never did. Please learn to read more carefully. – PeeJay 17:06, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

Di Stéfano

Di Stéfano, despite playing for the Spanish NT, was Argentinian. Shouldn't the Argentinian flag be next to his name? 181.24.35.244 (talk) 17:22, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

I agree. Can anyone provide some insight as to why Di Stéfano is listed as Spanish instead of Argentinian please? DuckhorseScaloni (talk) 06:22, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
Because, as was mentioned, he changed his nationality from Argentina to Spain. – PeeJay 13:09, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
He did not change nor renounce his Argentinian citizenship, he just became spanish (which does not replace your original nationality) to play with the Spanish National Team because the Argentinian one wasn't signing up for the World Cup.
He was always argentinian, AND spanish, but born in Argentina. I think he should have said flag. 181.24.55.224 (talk) 21:55, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Di Stefano too

He should have the argentine flag, why are you trying to take merit away from us? He's our player 181.24.53.68 (talk) 02:43, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Stats are wrong

Argentina has 10, Messi, DI Stefano and Sivori 181.24.36.17 (talk) 02:50, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Argentina has 10

I don't think it's appropiate for Wikipedia to lock the page with purposely wrong information. You are spreading misinformation, and that could be reported as vandalism 181.24.36.206 (talk) 07:31, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 July 2023

Sivori and Di Stefano were born in Argentina and were Argentine citizens and as such they should be counted as Argentines in the Wikipedia page 2600:4040:A643:6000:540C:6ECC:6:844E (talk) 08:42, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: They had changed their citizenship and were playing for another country's national team as stated in the note. Lightoil (talk) 12:30, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 August 2023

Di Stefano's flag is wrong! He was from argentina, not spain Rochi20 (talk) 12:51, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 14:57, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

RFC about usage of term: "most Ballon d'Or points in history"

Should the term "most points in Ballon d Or history used in the article or there is consensus that there are no reliable sources on that and it is just original research intepretation of some journalist? While it is no surprise many IP or rare users add trivial stats to articles about Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi then I was shocked when User:PeeJay (experienced editor) restored this thing. Khelnow.com is not reliable source an that system of points does not make any sense. France football never make any officlal list of most points in history but if new term "most Ballon d r points in history" has been introduced then Messi would have more points than Cristiano Ronaldo and Johan Cruyff would have more than Modric. Back then there were much less !voters in that, although players could achieve certain places then they did not receive a lot of points: that is the problem. As France Football (or any other organisation as UEFFA or at least other reliable source) never published rnking with proper analyse there is no need to add such WP:NOTSTATS. Additionally it is featured article so that not reliable fake information about most points in history could butcher and disgrace the article. It does not make any sense if for 1956 Ballon d'Or first place holder had 47 points and for 2021 Ballon d'Or 9-th place holder had 58 points, in 2014 FIFA Ballon d'Or as points were "percentages, meanwhile in 2022 Ballon d'Or points were hidden, etc., so total mix up and, so big disapointed that not verifited thing was ever added to Wikipedia and yet resorted. Dawid2009 (talk) 14:58, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Please read WP:RFCNEUTRAL. -- Random person no 362478479 (talk) 17:21, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
Also WP:RFCBEFORE. -- Random person no 362478479 (talk) 17:23, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
  • Should not be included in the article based on the fact that the data is not corroborated by other sources than Khel Now, which does not present this data as being exhaustive but merely a "top 10" without clear methodology. Should the methodology be further explained, exhaustive data be provided or other (reliable) sources also share this assessment then it would make sense to include this information. The change in points systems is irrelevant and although it is borderline WP:NOTSTATS, including this information on the page as a minor addition (not a full table of points for all nominees) could be considered. Shazback (talk) 12:33, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
  • Should not be included – per nom. Idiosincrático (talk) 03:00, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 October 2023 (2)

please change Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi won 10 consecutive Ballon d'Or trophies between them from 2008 to 2017 to Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi won 12 consecutive Ballon d'Or trophies between them from 2008 to 2023. Adegbendipe (talk) 16:08, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. M.Bitton (talk) 23:40, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Di Stefano is not spanish

Di Stefano and Sívori are argentinian 181.24.51.14 (talk) 11:49, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Di Stefano played for Spain from 1957 to 1961. In football terms, assigning him a Spanish nationality is not particularly outlandish. Same with Sivori playing for Italy. – PeeJay 12:26, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
It's not really outlandish, only straight up wrong. The article catalogs "wins by country", not by national team. Argentina NT players or not, they are still Argentine citizens. What if a player doesn't play for any national team and wins? Would you not count that? Would you place him flagless?
The category is very clear: "Win by COUNTRY", as in country of origin of the players, NOT national teams.
I feel like this is not fair, specially with cases like Di Stefano, who only played for the Spanish team because the Argentinian one wasn't presenting candidacy for the World Cup. 181.189.163.230 (talk) 06:15, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
You're coming up with your own definition for "wins by country" that doesn't tally with everyone else's. – PeeJay 11:30, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Di Stefano is not Spanish, that data is wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.45.41.43 (talk) 00:16, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Di Stefano played international football for Spain for four years from 1957 to 1961. Your data is wrong. – PeeJay 13:52, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Club allocation in 2022, 2023 and the future

In the 2022 edition, the rules of the Ballon d'Or changed and seasons began to be counted (from August 1 to July 31) and not years. This has caused discrepancies in the editions, with players changing clubs between June 30 (end of the European season) and July 31. First of all, I want to note that the Ballon d'Or and the adjacent awards (Yassin, Kopa) are awarded to players and not to clubs (these already have their own awards within the gala). The statistics of clubs associated with the awards are something typical of Wikipedia, and not so much something official of France Football. Therefore, I think we could elucidate our own criteria in this regard. Secondly, I want to note that the rules of the award do not distinguish between official and friendly matches or competitions. At least, I have not found any mention of this. In fact, player presentation videos often feature plays from friendly matches, both for the national team and the club. Taking this into account, I propose three options to unify criteria on the last two editions, and for the future. If my proposal meets the rules, I understand that it can be voted on. 1.- For the purposes of assigning clubs, the season ends on June 30 (end of the European season). 2.- End the season on July 31, and count only official matches. This so far would affect at least Sadio Mané (2nd in 2022), Messi and Benzema in 2023. Possibly there are more players affected in men and women. 3.- End the season on July 31, and also count friendly matches. This would affect more players. Only in 2023 and in men: Gundogan, Kim Min-Jae, Onana, Bellingham, Xavi Simmons... I'll be waiting for your answers. Thank you. Pinopuente (talk) 12:04, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

The statistics of clubs associated with the awards are something typical of Wikipedia, and not so much something official of France Football. Therefore ranking by clubs should not be included at all. Especially that it award is inconsistent. Before 1995 was for European players, after 2007 "owned" by FIFA, after 2015 again another way, after 2022 for season just as UEFFA player of the yesr; And according to enduring news in 2024 will be mergred not with FIFA player of the year but with UEFFA player of the year. Saying The statistics of clubs associated with the awards are something typical of Wikipedia, and not so much something official of France Football. Therefore, I think we could elucidate our own criteria in this regard; is not understanding how Wikipedia work, here "reliable souring" is even more important than "sesrching truth", Wikipedia can not also influence media, it go other way around as Wikipedia can only interpretate appeared sources.

Same thing by ranking of nationalities. What matter for Sivori or Di Stefano nationalities? And why ranking by nationalities at all if before 1995 no non-European players were allowed. The statistics of clubs associated with the awards are something typical of Wikipedia, and not so much something official by France Football - the same thing apply to nationalites then (if is otherwise, please send me link to France Football or that does not matter) 

Dawid2009 (talk) 09:47, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
We can see lists of nationalities of the winners in all Wikipedia articles on individual sports. Also in articles about team sports, in club competitions, referring to the nationality of the club. There is even a list of Nobel Prize winners by nationality. I don't see a problem with that. I'm looking for consistency, not elimination of information.
Pinopuente (talk) 10:42, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 October 2023

In the key to the tables, please change "the Ballon d'Or winning player also won the FIFA World Player of the Year or The Best FIFA Men's Player award in the same year (available in 1991–2009 and from 2016)" to "the Ballon d'Or winning player also won the FIFA World Player of the Year (1991–2009) or The Best FIFA Men's Player award (from 2016) in the same year", for greater clarity. 2001:BB6:47ED:FA58:B53A:50F2:5A7E:DD78 (talk) 10:50, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

 Partly done: I used the proposed language, with one minor change: (2016 onward) instead of (from 2016). -- Pinchme123 (talk) 04:30, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
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