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Removing "4 Infinite Loop Evacuation" Section

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This section has been sitting uncited for more than six months. A cursory search provided no mention of this incident outside of this page. I'm not sure it's really relevant to an encyclopedia article even if a source is found, but here's what I removed:

"4 Infinite Loop Evacuation

On Wednesday, May 6, 2009 an envelope containing white powder of unknown nature was found in the cafeteria of the building IL4 by an Apple employee. The building was subsequently evacuated. The Fire Department of Santa Clara County arrived at the scene at 3:30 pm, wearing hazmat suits. Preliminary tests showed that dust did not represent a threat, and the substance was taken to a laboratory for further analysis.[citation needed]" 98.234.80.57 (talk) 18:58, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Figure request

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I feel this article lacks a good figure that shows how far away the two campuses are, and how large they are compared to each other. I would make it myself, but I wouldn't know where to start with making a map figure... EditorInTheRye (talk) 18:59, 20 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Challenging inappropriate page move by User:InvadingInvader

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I just noticed that User:InvadingInvader moved this article from Apple Campus to Apple Infinite Loop without warning. That was highly inappropriate and amounts to disruptive editing. Moving articles on prominent subjects from longstanding titles should always be discussed on the talk page first and analyzed in light of relevant Wikipedia policies and guidelines. (I always do.)

The campus is signed as "Apple Campus" and is widely known around the world by that name. Apple itself calls it Apple Campus. Infinite Loop is merely the drive that goes around the buildings on the campus. "Apple Infinite Loop" is the name of the Apple Store on Infinite Loop at Apple Campus. Obviously, User:InvadingInvader hasn't spent enough time in Silicon Valley. (Guess who shot that aerial photo.)

I am way too busy right now with my legal work to clean up this mess. But at some point I will have to raise this on the admins' noticeboard so someone can deal with this. Coolcaesar (talk) 16:30, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:Be bold. And maybe tone it down on wording directed towards me which seems like WP:OWN. A disagreement on a page title is not an incentive to call the initial action a disruptive edit. I read on your userpage and guessed from your comments that you are an attorney, and while we absolutely appreciate your expertise on Wikipedia, we're meant on this project to work collaboratively and to assume good faith rather than assuming bad faith and calling everything that you do not agree with a disruptive edit; bludgeoning debates by focusing too much on user conduct harms the project as a whole. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 18:35, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@InvadingInvader: After looking at the many admonitions Coolcaesar has received for WP:Incivility on his talk page, I have decided to raise this issue at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Coolcaesar: Persistent and widespread incivility, disruptive behavior, and calling good-faith edits "vandalism." SilverLocust (talk) 22:34, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for notifying me. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 23:20, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Proposing move back to longstanding and correct title

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Requested move 20 April 2023

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Undiscussed move reverted after request in WP:RM/TR. (closed by non-admin page mover) MaterialWorks (contribs) 11:14, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Apple Infinite Loop → Apple Campus – This article has been titled "Apple Campus" for many years until User:InvadingInvader moved it yesterday without any warning. This article should be moved back to the correct title to preserve the status quo until User:InvadingInvader can establish consensus on the talk page in favor of a move to a different title. As I have already pointed out on the talk page, "Apple Infinite Loop" is inappropriate because that's actually the name of the Apple Store at Apple Campus. Coolcaesar (talk) 18:19, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose but open to alternative options. Apple Campus is necessary to have disambiguators for Apple Campus 3 and Apple Park, the former of which was known as Apple Campus 2. Since there are multiple Apple campuses, using the original title is too ambiguous, though I would be open to alternative disambiguating proposals such as maybe Apple Campus (Infinite Loop) InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 18:38, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment "Apple Campus" is still part of the actual name (just read the sign in the article photo), but I agree that "campus" is also a bit ambiguous, since it's also a descriptive term for a collection of buildings used by the same orgnaisation (which fits all 3). I'd support Apple Campus, Infinite Loop, or Apple Campus (Infinite Loop). EditorInTheRye (talk) 21:08, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. In response to a recent undiscussed move (WP:RMUM), you can summarily reverse the move. At that point, people can make a new request to move the page — after discussion and consensus. I suggest withdrawing this request and returning the page. SilverLocust (talk) 04:03, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nom may or may not know that WP:RMT exists. I've requested the reversions there. Let's see what a page mover says. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 09:25, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
checkY Moves reversed. MaterialWorks (contribs) 11:05, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 21 April 2023

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. There seems to be consensus that this article should not be at the current title, but there is absolutely no consensus on where it should be instead, including at the proposed title, or whether it's not the title that should change, but the scope of the topic. I hesitate closing this, but I'm pretty sure no consensus will result from this particular proposal. I can't even glean a preferable option to the current title per WP:NOGOODOPTIONS. I urge further thought and discussion, and perhaps a new proposal will find a solution that will garner broad support. (non-admin closure) В²C ☎ 05:31, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Apple Campus → Apple Campus (Infinite Loop) – There are multiple Apple Campuses, and a disambiguation is necessary. Plus, Apple markets the retail location at Infinite Loop as Apple Infinite Loop, leading such to be a more COMMONNAME among consumers. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 17:10, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Additionally see results are much lower for "Apple Campus" "Infinite Loop" than results for "Apple Infinite Loop". See also Google Trends. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 17:12, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Is this "Campus" 1) just the 6 IL buildings, 2) the IL buildings plus M3 and DA3 (the buildings on the same side of De Anza Boulevard), or those buildings plus some or all of the buildings on the other side of De Anza? See File:AppleCampusInfiniteLoop.png. Guy Harris (talk) 20:49, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
For what its worth, a Google search for "apple campus" pops up a link to maps.apple.com that shows Infinite Loop, without the other buildings as "Apple Campus". (It also finds links to articles about plans for an "Apple campus", lower-case "c", in Austin, Texas.) Guy Harris (talk) 21:00, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That map was made in 2009 so it may be out-of-date. Perhaps Apple doesn't still occupy all of the buildings on that map. The following statement in the article seems outdated to me as well: Besides the buildings on Infinite Loop, the whole Apple Campus occupies an additional thirty buildings scattered throughout the city to accommodate its employees. Some of these buildings are leased (with an average rental cost of $2.50 per square foot), while others are of recent acquisition; the land that the new buildings occupy will be used for future construction of a second campus in the city with the aim of centralizing the activities of the company. Presumably the "second campus" is Apple Park. – wbm1058 (talk) 21:42, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
For what it's worth, back in 2021, Apple purchased 10500 N. De Anza Blvd., 20605, 20665 and 20700 Valley Green Drive, and 20400 Mariani Ave. If Google Maps and the map at File:AppleCampusInfiniteLoop.png are to be believed, they are, respectively, DA3, VG5, VG6, VG2, and M3, so, unless they've sold them again or have left and are just acting as landlords, they're using the two buildings on the same side of the street as Infinite Loop and three of the buildings on the other side. They may well have left some of the others, although I suspect they're still occupying Infinite Loop. Guy Harris (talk) 23:32, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Alternative proposal use 1 Infinite Loop, which is pretty frequently used, as it is the street address, and is WP:CONCISE and WP:PRECISE and WP:NATURALDAB -- 64.229.90.172 (talk) 17:41, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • Support both original and alt proposals. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 17:42, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oppose. The article shows there are six buildings on Infinite Loop, and 1 Infinite Loop is just the flagship, former headquarters building. Others are 2 Infinite Loop, 3 Infinite Loop, etc. The article title shouldn't narrow the scope from an entire campus to just a single building. – wbm1058 (talk) 20:46, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oppose - "1 Infinite Loop" refers to a particular building and, it appears, to the entire Infinite Loop complex, by synecdoche, so its referent is not definite. As far as I can tell, "1 Infinite Loop, Cupertino, CA" is not the street address of, for example, IL2; that appears to be "2 Infinite Loop, Cupertino, CA". The corporate address of Apple may have been, at the time, "1 Infinite Loop, Cupertino, CA"], but that just means that the Official Headquarters Building(TM) is IL1. RFC 5667, for example, gives Brent Callaghan's address as "Brent Callaghan, Apple Computer, Inc., MS: 302-4K, 2 Infinite Loop, Cupertino, CA 95014 USA", and other examples of "2 Infinite Loop, Cupertino, CA" as an address can be found by a Google search for "2 infinite loop, cupertino, ca"; the same is probably true of 3 Infinite Loop for 6 Infinite Loop. 1 Infinite Loop can be a redirect to the page for the entire campus - or, if individual buildings have sections, to the section about IL1 - but it shouldn't be the name of the page for the entire campus. Guy Harris (talk) 21:22, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
So which of their campuses should the page describe? Guy Harris (talk) 07:27, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose the suggestion is to move it to Apple campus (Infinite Loop) or Apple Infinite Loop campus or Infinite Loop (campus) or or Infinite Loop (Apple campus). Some form of disambiguation may still be needed. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 11:49, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • No lowercase. It remains a proper noun, even if it's an uncreative name that can be mistakenly used lowercase descriptively. Support as proposed, or as Apple Campus, Infinite Loop. oknazevad (talk) 11:55, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Current title seems fine, and the proposed titles aren't great. If a move is needed, the original nom (uppercase) might be best, but as Guy Harris said, Apple's former campus is more than just Infinite Loop (which is indeed just IL1-6). Synecdoche feels too imprecise for an article title. Hatnotes are valid disambiguation techniques, so what would a move achieve, that isn't already addressed by the hatnote? DFlhb (talk) 13:03, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. The term "Apple Campus" is found in a great many sources. Binksternet (talk) 22:57, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    May I kindly request that you provide such sources? InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 02:48, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support some kind of rename, but not exactly as proposed; maybe Apple Infinite Loop or Apple campus (Infinite Loop) or 1 Infinite Loop. The term "Apple campus" (sometimes capped) is common enough in sources even from 1998, years before Infinite Loop existed. When I worked in 1 IL in the 90s, I never heard of calling the place "Apple Campus". Sometimes "Apple Infinite Loop" or "Infinite Loop campus" perhaps, or just "Infinite Loop", but we still had an extended campus in the neighborhood, so without "Infinite Loop" there was no good way to refer to it. Dicklyon (talk) 07:02, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support some kind of rename per Dicklyon. Per the OP there are many Apple campuses. Hence we have Apple Campus (disambiguation). Raw Google searches are not good evidence to use. We could instead look at news sources for "Apple campus" (216,000 hits) and Apple "infinite loop" (1,100 hits). Google books is another metric: "Apple campus" (1,940 hits) and Apple "infinite loop" (7,920 hits) but "Apple Infinite Loop" (218 hits usually styled in the possessive - "Apple's Infinite Loop"). Perusal of the first few search pages does not exclude hits for an endless loop but are mainly about Apple. It is fairly clear though that "Apple campus" does not just refer to the first campus which is the subject here. I'm not certain if we can establish conclusively whether this article is actually the "primary target" intended by our readers, given the broad use of the term "Apple campus" in sources. It is also clear from the ngram evidence that campus should not be capitalised.
The evidence would indicate that, rather than having Apple Campus (disambiguation), our readers would be better served by Apple campus being a parent article for the various apple campuses. Adopting this course still leaves us with the question of how to title this article - particularly since there will now be a direct title conflict with the present name of this article. Following from DL, there are a couple of options that should be viewed through the lens of the criteria at WP:AT. These might be: "Apple Infinite Loop", "Infinite Loop campus", "Infinite Loop" or "1 Infinite Loop". "Apple Infinite Loop" already redirects here but it is clearly not a WP:COMMONNAME. "Infinite Loop campus" is not a redirect/title and has 125 hits at Google books. "Infinite Loop" presently redirects to infinite loop. While I am not a fan of disambiguation purely by caps, this is nonetheless a possibility. "1 Infinite Loop" is also a redirect to here. Some arguments are made that the campus extended over more than just the lot of 1 IL. This is somewhat pedantic argument. 1 IL was nonetheless the address of the campus, as evidenced by this article and supported by sources observed in the Google Books search. To summarise: natural disambiguation (eg "Apple Infinite Loop" or "Infinite Loop campus") is preferable over parenthetical disambiguation but is also less concise than the other options. "Infinite Loop" is acceptable and most concise, even if disambiguation by caps alone is (IMHO) less than optimal. "1 Infinite Loop" is a middle ground. Cinderella157 (talk) 03:02, 28 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 15 September 2023

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Apple Infinite Loop campus. Consensus arrived at Apple Infinite Loop campus. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 13:25, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Apple Campus → Apple Campus (Infinite Loop) – Let's try this again, and I hope we don't come to a No Good Solutions situation again. Given that multiple Apple Campuses exist, Apple Campus is not a good choice and we need some sort of disambiguation or qualifier. Though the campus is presently named "Apple Campus", "Infinite Loop" in reference to Apple almost always means this campus. "Apple Infinite Loop" is even the name of the Apple Retail Store here. (see [1]) Therefore, to combine both the official name as well as how it is referred to commonly, and to solve the disambiguation, I would propose that this article be retitled to Apple Campus (Infinite Loop). InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 04:40, 15 September 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 15:42, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Addendum 9/21/2023: Apple Campus (disambiguation) → Apple Campus. For additional context, see previous proposal. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 16:06, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose. Under WP:PLACEDAB, the article on the primary topic (see WP:PRIMARYTOPIC) should carry the place's name without any qualifiers or "tags" in the title. Since Apple Campus 2 was renamed Apple Park and is now more widely known under that name, the only "Apple Campus" that could be readily confused with the original Apple Campus in Cupertino is Apple Campus 3 in Sunnyvale. Under Wikipedia:Disambiguation (specifically, "Deciding to disambiguate"), when we have only two primary uses for the same term: "The other use is linked directly using a hatnote; no disambiguation page is needed". Both articles already link to each other in their first paragraphs. --Coolcaesar (talk) 16:50, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging editors from the previous discussion for their input: @64.229.90.172, @Binksternet, @Dicklyon, @Cinderella157, @Oknazevad, @DFlhb, @BarrelProof, @Onel5969, @Guy Harris, @Wbm1058, and @EditorInTheRye InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 16:04, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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