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First one to find the logo used in 1923 gets a barnstar

I think finding an image of the flag used is going to be a major pain. What I suggest is that as per The flag has remained the same basic design since then. The IRFU logo in the middle on a green background with the four provincial emblems quartered. It has been updated with the new designs but the layout is still the same we take the current flag and just add 1923 logo and that is our flag issue sorted Gnevin (talk) 16:16, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

This is excellent. My research on the the IRFU logo (based on programmes) through the twentieth century has revealed that the three shamrocks (that was replaced in the early 1990s by the first incarnation of the modern IRFU logo) actually began being used in 1955. Until 1954 it was a single shamrock surrounded by an oval around the rim of which (from bottom left clockwise to bottom right) read "Irish Rugby Football Union". This was consistent from at least 1929 and probably before. Even if it had changed in 1929, this would still have copyright expired in 1999.Kwib (talk) 16:36, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Image of logo found

Please see this picture of a cigarette card from 1926 WE Crawford in 1926 with logo shown clearly on shirt.Kwib (talk) 17:16, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
(Flag introduced in 1925 so this would fit)Kwib (talk) 17:18, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
I have a photo of Frank Hewitt in Ireland shirt with the four shamrock motif on white shield with date 1924 underneath. Do I win a fiver? FruitMonkey (talk) 17:21, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
So, we have the four shamrock motif in 1924 and 1926. Thus, I believe we have 1925 covered.Kwib (talk) 17:26, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
This photo is a bit strange though. 1923 joint Scotland/Ireland team (with actual international players) faces a joint England/Wales. And that looks like our badge? FruitMonkey (talk) 17:41, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
The three-shamrock motif that we all know and love is used in 1931 in top right corner of this supplement. 1931 is out of copyright in Ireland (PD = 75 years in Ireland, yes?). Therefore the entire flag image is public domain. --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid (coṁrá) 18:46, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
This is most interesting. 1929 cards seem to indicate that the emblem on the shirt may have changed to the three shamrocks at the end of the decade (although I may be wrong).Kwib (talk) 09:04, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
The image for 26 shows 4 shamrocks but this is our best source yet. I've asked here for the 4 shamrock logo to be included. Gnevin (talk) 20:22, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Kwib, could you scan one of your old programs? This would give us a great image? Gnevin (talk) 20:35, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

The older program covers I got from various sites on the web. However, the four shamrocks predate these. With regard to getting the image of the four shamrock motif I can scan in the card to a higher resolution once I receive it. Perhaps Fruitmonkey's 1924 Frank Hewitt photo has a clear depiction that could be used?Kwib (talk) 09:04, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, my image is of Hewitt is about the same condition as the image of Louis Magee. FruitMonkey (talk) 09:25, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
It doesn't have to be the 4 shamrock, it just has to be an offical IRFU logo and free Gnevin (talk) 11:08, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
I'm working on it right now. Is the consensus for the four shamrocks style or three? --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid (coṁrá) 11:53, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
Personally I prefer the three as it was used longer, shows the genesis with the present IRFU official logo, and is still used as part of the British and Irish Lions badge. FruitMonkey (talk) 12:33, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
I concur with the use of the three shamrocks.Kwib (talk) 12:58, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
Done. See commons:File:IRFU flag.svg. --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid (coṁrá) 13:33, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
Ireland. --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid (coṁrá) 13:42, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
Lads I'd requested Template:Country data Ireland add this. This should be the end of this. I'd like to thank everyone who stayed civil and didn't accused me of bad faith, forum shopping or sectarianism (where ever the hell that came from) during this long and often frustrating debated .I've always had one goal here not inventing an IRFU flag and while we maybe using an out of date flag its still a IRFU flag .If someone at Graphic lab creates the requested barnstar. Someone you will be getting a well earned barnstar as promised Gnevin (talk) 15:43, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
Great work on the SVG. It looks like we have finally got the rock to the top of the hill! (re Sisyphus above)Kwib (talk) 17:06, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
Well done lads, good to see an outcome that everyone can live with GainLine ♠ ♥ 15:10, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
Great outcome, great job to all those who stayed positive and worked hard to find a practical solution to this problem.Gpeilon (talk) 19:19, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
Fantastic work by kwib and rannphairti. Impressive stuff all round I think.Khavakoz (talk) 09:43, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

The change has been made for the Ireland national team. Is there an opposition to use this icon for the club sides in the Heineken Cup? They are still iconless.Gpeilon (talk) 19:25, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Yeah use if for the club sides also Gnevin (talk) 09:04, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
I approve the above messages (belatedly) Stevebritgimp (talk) 15:27, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Time periods and different flags

Now we have an IRFU flag to use, I have a question about the period we can use it from and if there is a precedent set. It was introduced in 1925. So it is apparent that we can use it from 1925 without a problem. However, prior to 1925 do we use a different flag? According to WP:IMOS FLAGS until 1922 the following should be used  Ireland. Interestingly we then have a gap from 1924 to 1925 (although I am sure we can be flexible on this point by using the IRFU flag if no other exists). Or, do we simply use the IRFU flag for Ireland rugby regardless of date?Kwib (talk) 18:07, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

What did the IRFU do? The quote above says that there was reticence to use the tricolour. So I presume they used the saltire until 1925? --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid (coṁrá) 11:04, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
This quote apparantly, a reluctance at first in some quarters to fly the 'Irish tricolour (which, of course, had replaced the Union Jack as the national emblem) says they flew the Union jack. I don't think that is going to work. I'd suggest using the 1925 flag across the board Gnevin (talk) 12:56, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

(Banging head on wall in frustration at the non-stop discussion of this topic) Why not just use the shamrock which is one of the unofficial flags of Ireland, and which the IRFU logo is based on? The Union Jack is not the flag of Ireland.--MacRusgail (talk) 15:05, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Why would we want to use an invented flag when we've a PD IRFU flag File:IRFU flag.svg Gnevin (talk) 16:13, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (icons)#Historical considerations, the IRFU flag had not been invented yet, and the saltire did exist at that time. It just seems inappropriate to use the IRFU flag on an article like 1874-75 Home Nations rugby union matches. There is a long-standing consensus in Wikipedia:WikiProject Football to use the saltire for the Irish football team for that era; why the objection to having a consistent treatment from this project? — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 17:24, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
This is a serious case of IAR also it says Use historical flags in contexts where the difference matters ,I don't think the difference matters. The consensus at WP:FOOTY when I challenged it was unable to prove any usage at any time. Also as per the quote above it would appear the IRFU where using the union jack pre 25 , do you seriously suggest using the union jack? Gnevin (talk) 17:37, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
I'm suggesting we use the component of the Union Jack that is understood (somewhat) on en.wiki to be the icon representing pre-partition Ireland within the UK. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 18:01, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
understood (somewhat) on en.wiki , what does that mean ? This is a very strange statement, we've clear evidence of what flag was used by the IRFU if you want to get technical and also the IRFU flag above was only used till the 50's do we go back to square one? Gnevin (talk) 18:39, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
I don't think the quote says the IRFU used the union flag. It says the tricolour replaced the union flag was the national flag but I don't think that it can take that to mean that the union flag was flown to represent Ireland (no more that it would have been flow to represent Scotland, England or Wales). -- RA (talk) 18:57, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
@Gnevin: I'm saying that the saltire is already used on this Wikipedia as an icon to represent Ireland from that period. As I've always maintained, icons and flags are not synonymous, although flags are by far the most commonly used images used as icons. But if we're already prepared to accept the inconsistency of using a non-national flag for the team representing the island of Ireland, why should there be objection to using the same icon used elsewhere on Wikipedia for teams from Ireland as part of the UK? Isn't the overall consistency worth it? — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 19:10, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
I don't care what wiki decided to use for Ireland back in the dark ages of the mid 2000's. The fact is the project has I hope moved on. Consistency on wiki is a non existent concept but if the usage can be proved then use the saltire , otherwise we get back into the invention discussion Gnevin (talk) 21:04, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
Not to raise the dead – but the football situation is different because two teams arose from the political changes in Ireland, but in rugby there has only been one team. Now flags of countries do change (e.g. Georgia, South Africa), but this is an icon, representing the Irish RFU. From the points above – 'where the difference matters' – I would say in rugby there is no difference. The issue with the flag was one of invention or ownership, now we have one which is neither. From my POV job done – apply it to all dates. Stevebritgimp (talk) 15:34, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
Great illustration of why these little icons are not worth having; they cause far more trouble than they are worth. --John (talk) 15:44, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
Disagree, there is only one person causing much fuss over this issue. And strangely, only over Ireland. What about South Africa for Pete's sake? --MacRusgail (talk) 16:11, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Between your flag waving, 8 incubated BLP rugby articles need referencing

These 8 rugy articles were mis-listed as being Australian and were incubated, I re-categorized them as Athletes:

Okip (formerly Ikip) 07:42, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Great work both in identifying these and for addressing them so promptly!Kwib (talk) 07:46, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Scottish Rugby Union – Non Sine Gloria

On the 1973 programme for the International Seven-a-side Tournament held for the Centenary Season of the SRU there is a shield with the words "Non Sine Gloria" below it. The thistle and what appear to be laurel wreaths are arranged in quarters on the shield. I was wondering if this shield has always been emblematic of the SRU? If not when was it adopted? and is it still used now? I cannot recall seeing it before.Kwib (talk) 13:42, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

(By the way, I am creating an article on that great sevens tournament that predated the "official" world cup by 20 years).Kwib (talk) 13:43, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Loughborough University internationals – statistics emerge

I am putting together an article on the Loughborough Colleges/University rugby side (which I am amazed has not already been done given its dominance of university rugby in the UK, as well as the fact that it has produced 62 internationals (17 of which were Lions). Additionally there are 12 female internationals, so 74 in total. Anyway, I thought I would bring something to the attention of the project which I am sure many of you have an appreciation of already. Whilst fixing and checking the links to the various internationals I found the following. Aside from article quality, which varied considerably from one liners to good articles, there was a massive difference in how well the nations were represented. Of the Welsh internationals from Loughborough, 11 of the 14 had articles. Ireland 67% (4 of 6), England 55% (18 of 33) and Scotland just 17% (1 of 6). The Lions were 17 of 17, which is very encouraging. Is this snapshot indicative of the coverage on wikipedia for the various nations?Kwib (talk) 00:19, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm slightly surprised at how high the Irish percentage is, although the small size of the "sample" maybe makes the percentage a little higher than it is. The Lions coverage is justifiably high because Lions selection generally (though not always) indicates a player who has achieved a reasonable notablity in the game and a couple of years ago I spent some time creating at least a basic article for every Lion going back to the 1966 your although I'd have to admit that in some cases they are extremely basic indeed! The Loughborough connection is probably a fair indicator of coverage of modern rugby union as I would guess most of the internationals from there were from the 1960s onwards?--Bcp67 (talk) 08:33, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Coincidentally I came upon some stuff about Loughborough the other day. You're right. It's not really a major university, but has had a big influence on English rugby, much as Jordanhill has had a disproportionate influence on Scottish rugby.--MacRusgail (talk) 18:19, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Can someone add a link to the RU portal on the project page please.--MacRusgail (talk) 15:10, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Link added. Gnevin (talk) 20:24, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Thanks! --MacRusgail (talk) 20:58, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Portal selected articles

I see these haven't been updated for around three years. I created some new ones here, and have attempted to get something of an international balance (although Asia and the Americas are difficult to find much on) with at least one picture in the article.

I would like to have Invictus featured this coming month, as it gets released in the UK on 2nd January. Also, I have created a link up to Bill McLaren for March, although his article needs to be improved more.

User:MacRusgail/Portal:Rugby union/Selected articles -MacRusgail (talk) 18:21, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Bot which automatically updates unreferenced biography of living persons daily

RE: Wikipedia:Bot requests/Archive 34#Unreferenced biography of living persons bot to get projects involved in referencing.

Hello Rugby union wikiproject, I requested a bot which will update unreferenced living people (BLPs) daily. User talk:Betacommand is willing to create this bot. Since you already have a /Unreferenced BLPs page, this shows your project really cares about this issue.

I just need a list of projects who would like to test this bot. Please let me know here if your project would like to do this. Thank you. Okip (the new and improved Ikip) 19:30, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

hello, is this something your project maybe interested in? Several hundred, probably several thousand articles will be deleted if they remain unreferenced. Okip (formerly Ikip) 19:27, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
FruitMonkey said your project would be interested in this.[1] thank you.Okip (formerly Ikip) 20:04, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Here is the list, while the bot is being worked on: http://toolserver.org/~betacommand/reports/unref_blp/WikiProject_Rugby_union_articles.txt - - # Bleddyn Taylor - # Brett Mather - # Charlie Fellows  Done - # David Blair (rugby union)  Done - # David Smith (rugby footballer)  Done - # Jack Durling - # Jamie Helleur  Done - # John Scott (rugby union)  Done - # Jonathan Humphreys  Done - # Jone Daunivucu  Done - # Kendrick Lynn  Done - # Leon MacDonald  Done - # Lionel Beauxis  Done - # Mac McCallion  Done - # Matteo Mazzantini  Done - # Matthew Burke (rugby player born 1964) - # Michael Green (humorist) - # Mike Rayer - # Nafi Tuitavake - # Nasser Hussain (rugby) - # Nicholas Harrison - # Nigel Heslop - # Patrick Phibbs - # Peter Sullivan (rugby) - # Philippe Saint-André - # Raphaël Bastide - # Reggie Corrigan - # Rhys Webb  Done - # Richard Smith (rugby player) - # Rudi Vedelago - # Salesi Finau - # Sergio Valdés - # Shannon Paku - # Steven Taylor (rugby union) - # Stuart Lancaster (rugby) - # Tim Lane (rugby union) - # Titimaea Tafua - # Tommy Hayes - # Tony Woodcock (rugby player) - # Uale Mai - # Wayne Thompson (rugby union) - Seems rather short. Okip (formerly Ikip) 11:13, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Rugby union at the Summer Olympics GA Sweeps: On Hold

I have reviewed Rugby union at the Summer Olympics for GA Sweeps to determine if it still qualifies as a Good Article. In reviewing the article I have found several issues, which I have detailed here. Since the article falls under the scope of this project, I figured you would be interested in contributing to further improve the article. Please comment there to help the article maintain its GA status. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 06:17, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Many thanks for this. I have made a start in addressing some of the points. Letting GA level articles slip would be detrimental to the project.Kwib (talk) 07:45, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

List of "Any other" national rugby union footballers

I am happy to put some lists together but I would like to know if we are happy on a standard layout of such lists?Kwib (talk) 11:27, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

No standards have been laid out so far. It's a bit of a toss up. I personally feel that the Irleand article is too minimal, while Wales may be too large to load for slower connections. South Africa appears to be a happy compromise, with the removal of the birthdates which the Welsh list uses. I also dislike the fact that the England List is split into time periods, preventing a full list sort. So I suppose I'm saying that the South African List has the thumbs up from myself. FruitMonkey (talk) 08:20, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

New articles

A bot will generate a list of new articles as can be seen below Gnevin (talk) 23:06, 18 February 2010 (UTC) This list was generated from these rules. Questions and feedback are always welcome! The search is being run daily with the most recent ~14 days of results. Note: Some articles may not be relevant to this project.

Rules | Match log | Results page (for watching) | Last updated: 2024-11-21 22:20 (UTC)

Note: The list display can now be customized by each user. See List display personalization for details.

This is a good idea. It has existed on the Scottish Islands wikiproject for a while, and is successful. --MacRusgail (talk) 20:58, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Project review

This project, has about a dozen sub page which no one seems to be using . Can users more in the know here {{Rugby topics}},WP:RU and Portal:Rugby union and tidy up and remove any of the old stuff. Should the likes Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby union/News and Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby union/New articles be deleted? Gnevin (talk) 23:30, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

"New articles" looks like it is fairly active, and it's a useful page as any articles which appear there can be reviewed by members of the project. I'd say its worth keeping.--Bcp67 (talk) 21:10, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
The new articles is only active now as I added the bot created articles template. Gnevin (talk) 10:17, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Robert MacKenzie (rugby union) and Lennard Stokes others

Can these be called rugby union players if the code didn't exist when they played and in some cases lived Gnevin (talk) 00:00, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

It's a difficult case to follow through, but league did break away from union not the other way about. These players were amateur, the great leading point in the split. Also any book on Rugby Union will classify these players as one of theirs, league does not. Although they were basically 'rugby' players, all written documents and records classify them as under the union code. FruitMonkey (talk) 00:06, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

MacKenzie now sorted. The reason for this is that I have been mass producing a number of Scottish rugby articles. I generally try and put pre-schismatics into "(rugby)" and post- and trans-schismatics into "(rugby union)". (This sounds like a church history lesson!)

But please, please do not do the same kind of thing to the categories that you did with the Irish flags. It's not on. It's going to cause problems for at least three reasons I can think of. I hold no grudge against rugby league, but it did split off what was effectively the union code, not the other way round.--MacRusgail (talk) 20:56, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Treorchy RFC

Could someone with admin rights move the article Treorchy Rugby Football Club, back to Treorchy RFC. Just to keep the articles with the same naming convention. FruitMonkey (talk) 23:23, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Didn't need admin rights to move it back since no one had made any edits to the redirect page that was left at Treorchy RFC. It's all sorted now. – PeeJay 23:37, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
Ta. FruitMonkey (talk) 23:50, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Assessing importance

On the project assessment scale, how do we measure what is suitable for High? I am thinking specifically about Lennard Stokes who I would like to categorise as such.Kwib (talk) 23:30, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

To be honest, I would categorise him as Mid-Importance, since he only had a middling international career, and (IMO) the president of the RFU isn't as important to the project as a player or a coach. I'd go with Mid. – PeeJay 23:36, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
I'd go for high. I can't name a more notable player in the first ten years of the international scene. England captain for about four years, legend of sport, Administrator, steered Blackheath and secured the Rectory field. FruitMonkey (talk) 23:47, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Something for the weekend

Willem Ferdinand van Rheede van Oudtschoorn Bergh--MacRusgail (talk) 20:54, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Aspatria RFC and extinct English clubs

Following on from the Loughborough Uni discussion above. Can someone create an article on Aspatria RFC. It seems to have produced a few internationalists. Not sure if it still exists. I'm guessing from its position on the Scottish border that it may have picked up a few Scots, if not had regular contact with Langholm and Hawick which are not far away.

Also, do we have articles for Nomads, Gypsies etc and other important early English clubs which exist no more? Some of these were founders of the RFU if I mind rightly.--MacRusgail (talk) 21:01, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Following a red link to Aspatria RUFC from the site for Aspatria itself, it looks like someone had a go at setting one up within the last couple of days only for it to be deleted for "blatant advertising"!--Bcp67 (talk) 21:21, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
The early clubs do have articles, I'm guessing you are looking for some of these, FruitMonkey (talk) 00:01, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
When I created the template above I found that most of the clubs had no articles. Ironically, from my point of view, having designed it as a prompt for the community to dive in and create the articles, I ended up filling in all the gaps myself. It turned out to be most rewarding in actual fact because I came away with a much greater appreciation for the early years of rugby than I had previously.Kwib (talk) 00:23, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

I am glad that you have done this... As some of these clubs are very important in the history of rugby (besides having interesting names). Only yesterday, I was editing rugby union in Canada, and the name of Alfred St. George Hamersley came up – who played for Marlborough Nomads and was in the first international.

However, are some of these clubs connected? For example, I'm not sure whether Wimbledon RFC and Wimbledon Hornets are the same, some books I have suggest that the Hornets bit the dust some while ago (unless they reformed).

The Wimbledon club certainly went through a period that had very few records from around 1882 to 1908. The club in 1908 were attempting to obtain a ground near Wimbleon "to arrange a full fixture list", which implies a nomadic existence at that point. They went into suspended animation when the First World War started, and was only re-formed in 1927. This may be the source for some authors suggesting they had become defunct. However, the club itself celebrated its centenary with a dinner in February 1966, suggesting that they believe they are the same as the Wimbledon Hornets.Kwib (talk) 17:10, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Talking of Scottish clubs, I created Gordonians RFC recently – it's one of the two/three old clubs of Aberdeen, recently reformed. It's a bit more complicated here, as many of the old clubs have merged rather than disappeared. So do we have two articles for the old clubs, plus a new one, or just one for all? Cases in point Corstorphine Royal High Cougars, Glasgow Hawks, Murrayfield Wanderers RFC and Hillhead-Jordanhill RFC--MacRusgail (talk) 13:53, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Aspatria RUFC (note the "u", Cumbria is league country) article created. It is low down in the divisions now, but has produced several England players, plus at least one British Lion.

I have created Category:Defunct English rugby union teams for old English teams.--MacRusgail (talk) 15:27, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

You might be interested to know that I have created an article on St. Andrew's Rovers FC, an interesting club who provided the "germ" for London Scottish.Kwib (talk) 18:23, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

I've just created an article on Merchistonian FC, a very important, and now defunct rugby club based in Edinburgh.--MacRusgail (talk) 14:33, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

School rugby sides

I notice that:

Similar problems with FP clubs for Scotland. Merchistonians is not created the Fettesian-Lorrettonian article barely mentions rugby. I don't think Perth Academicals and Marr FP are in existence yet. Until recently, the Royal High article linked to Royal High School (Edinburgh), but I have now linked it to Corstorphine-RHS Cougars which is the proper rugby club. --MacRusgail (talk) 15:27, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

In the case of Wellington and St Paul's, it was not the old boys teams that were founders of the RFU but the schools themselves. The Sport sections of these schools does need to be developed. In fact, St Paul's does not even have a sport sectin I believe. The Dulwich College article, for example, has a distinct and detailed section on Rugby, and I think this would be applicable to many schools whose contribution to the game is significant.Kwib (talk) 17:29, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Lists of national rugby union players

I have created Lists of players for the following:

When I created the list for England, I introduced breaks for decades and also prelinked the names. As a result of feedback, I have introduced neither breaks nor links. The links led to too many disambiguations or incorrect presonages. The breaks meant the sorting only spanned a decade at a time.

In terms of sorting I have introduced in the names a "hidden" sort tag, being the surname.

So, to reiterate, the lists above currently have no links to player articles and would benefit greatly from community editing in this respect.Kwib (talk) 12:24, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

(I have written "players" out of deference to the consensus achieved but this term does not sit well with me and "footballers" feels more natural. I do not intend or want to reopen that debate, the ship has sailed, however for those that have said the term footballers is archaic, I am not so sure. Watching the recent coverage of the six nations I witnessed the term footballer/s used on a number of occasions).Kwib (talk) 12:24, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
Fair comment – and I'm someone who used the word "archaic" in that debate – maybe I'm trying too hard to be modern!! Great work from you creating those new international players lists.--Bcp67 (talk) 18:02, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
There is another problem, and I hate to say it. Rugby has more or less lost the battle with soccer over the word "football", even though it is more like the traditional football games.--MacRusgail (talk) 20:02, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

NB – List of Scottish rugby union players. But I am creating Scottish articles at a rapid rate just now, so keep looking in the category, if you wish to link some. This new list comes at a good time. --MacRusgail (talk) 13:43, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Rugby Union Articles needing reclassification

I've been trawlong through some stub class articles only to find a lot of articles are badly in need of recategorising, some have drifted into being bigger article and need reclassifiying, others have been bot assesed incorrectly. I think project rugby union could do with concentrationg and sorting these out GainLine ♠ ♥ 13:01, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

This is very good point. Looking at Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby union/Assessment there is a lot of guidance I had not previously examined in terms of assessing articles. (I note that quality C is not in Quality scale guidance though). Additionally, there are a large number of articles that are biographies of players/coaches and therefore should also be part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography.Kwib (talk) 13:46, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
I favour the "C" classification myself. It makes some sense. It's used in certain other wikiprojects. --MacRusgail (talk) 15:20, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
Me too, there are some articles which are defintely not stubs but are scraping the extremes of B classification GainLine ♠ ♥ 15:45, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
I agree. I highlighted that it is missing not to suggest we don't use it, but to glean whether others think it should be added...and this I will do now.Kwib (talk) 16:44, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

If it's not in line with wikipedia in general, I'd argue for that to change. Some articles are good, in terms of references, but lack pictures, for example.--MacRusgail (talk) 19:51, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Thomas Holliday

Can anyone confirm whether or not Thomas "Tom" Holliday, the rugby league player, and Thomas "Toff" Edwin Holliday, who played with the Lions and Aspatria are one and the same? The time scale is certainly right. See here and here.--MacRusgail (talk) 18:41, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

This would appear to indicate they are. noq (talk) 19:00, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Article updated to reflect this. Much more significant RU player than RL – 7 caps for ENG, + 1924 Lions, but only one cap for England RL, although in club rugby, Oldham RL probably rates above Aspatria RUFC.--MacRusgail (talk) 13:24, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

www.scrum.com

Does anyone know what's happened to the www.scrum.com site ? Is it just me or has it been down for months ? Does anyone know of another site which so brilliantly provides details of all RU International matches/players/appearances since time immemorial ? -Sticks66 12:16, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

It was working yesterday. But appears to be returning blank pages at the moment. noq (talk) 12:53, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
working fine at the moment for me.Kwib (talk) 14:16, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

It seems to be alright, but unfortunately it has invasive cookies & advertising, and they keep moving the pages around. --MacRusgail (talk) 16:49, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Rugby IIIs up for deletion

Never heard of it, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Seems to be of Argentine origin, so most sources would be in Spanish.

Debate here – Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rugby threes--MacRusgail (talk) 17:38, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Melbourne Rebels

Hi all, A few rugby tragics ( including myself) have been writing an article on the Melbourne Rebels as they coalesce for the 2011 Super15 season. We'd appreciate some oversight/advice/suggestions/guidance on what might be good content as we await developments. We have a problem, I believe, in that we are trying to 'beef up' article when perhaps we need to keep things simple, concise and encyclopaedic. Any interest in our endeavour would be gratefully appreciated. Thank you! Paul ( Paul Roberton (talk)) 17:22, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Asa Amone

League player, but I believe that there was an Asa Amone who played union for Tonga, probably the same guy. Anyone have any more info?   pablohablo. 14:36, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Appears to be the same person. FruitMonkey (talk) 16:43, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
I saw that, don't know how good a source it is though.   pablohablo. 16:51, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

I think it is. The dates fit. Obviously transferred to League in the 1990s, so I will change it...--MacRusgail (talk) 18:35, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

British and Irish Lions 1924 crest

Hello all, I have put a request (here) for the British and Irish Lions 1924 crest to be made into an svg and clarity to be added to the example image that I have uploaded (here). If anyone reading this has the requisite skills and the time needed to deal with this request, it would be greatly appreciated. A PD version of the Lions crest would be good to have for this project I believe.Kwib (talk) 22:49, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Stan Harris....has there been a better all-rounder?

Stan Harris (1894–1973), rugby union international for England and the Lions, waterpolo international, Davis cup tennis for South Africa, South African light-heavyweight boxing champion, Wimbledon mixed doubles winner, and turned down place in 1920 Great Britain Olympics squad. He also made the finals of the World Ballroom Dancing championships after one year of training, and all this between and after serving in both the First and Second World Wars, the former in which he was injured at the Somme, the latter in which he survived one of the worst POW camps in the far east.Kwib (talk) 08:29, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

A hero enough for his war career, let alone his sporting accomplishments -Sticks66 12:53, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Actually, there are a few of these folk Frank Stoker, C.B. Fry (who played for the Babas), James Cecil Parke, Eric Liddell, Rudi van Vuuren, Henry Renny-Tailyour, Noel Purcell, Constantin Henriquez, Leslie Balfour-Melville. There's a large overlap between cricket and rugby – see here – but I've never liked the former myself. Liddell died in a Japanese POW camp, and may well be the fastest person to have played for Scotland – most of you will know of him because of "that film".

I have been composing a very provisional list at User:MacRusgail/Sandbox5 – if you're interested in what I'm doing, put a word in on the discussion page. It's very rough and ready just now.

NB also – Heather Moyse – A Canada international in rugby union, both in 15s and sevens, and winner of a gold medal at the 2010 Winter Olympics in two-woman bobsleigh.

There are tonnes of others, even in sports you might not expect such as shinty and hurling, racquets etc.--MacRusgail (talk) 14:18, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Other ones: Charles Vintcent, K.G. MacLeod --MacRusgail (talk) 17:49, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Infobox Stats

I was wondering if the stats in the infoboxes are just for league matches or do they include The Heineken Cup etc.? Mr.Apples2010 (talk) 02:31, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

I don't think we have the same restrictions here as they do at WP:FOOTY. I have always included appearances in all competitions (not friendlies though). – PeeJay 12:49, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

England players

Hello

in french wikipedia, we are working on fr:Martin Johnson (Martin Johnson (rugby union)), fr:Lawrence Dallaglio (Lawrence Dallaglio), ... If you want to better these articles, it will be easier and each wikipedia will use the news of other wikipedia... See you soon... Ddfree (talk) 12:24, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

fr:Martin Johnson (Martin Johnson (rugby union)) is a good article, and it will be the same for Richard Hill and Neil Back. So if you want to better the english articles... Ddfree (talk) 18:54, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
fr:Lawrence Dallaglio (Lawrence Dallaglio) is a good article. Ddfree (talk) 16:22, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Scottish players by club

Have now helped created a number of categories for Category:Rugby union players in Scotland by club – help fill 'em up!

I notice of the rest, only Ireland seems to have a decent number of player by club cats.--MacRusgail (talk) 17:33, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

RU controversies

I started this page, as I felt it was appropriate, given the recent creation of the Good Friday closure controversy and Andre Markgraaff – Category:Rugby union controversies--MacRusgail (talk) 16:22, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Could someone have a stab at Bloodgate Gnevin (talk) 13:21, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
I'm amazed that we didn't have an article on it already!!! Good suggestion though. I have created a short article, mainly by shamelessly plagiarising the Quins' article, but it is a start anyway.--MacRusgail (talk) 16:37, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Collab of the fortnight

Does anyone fancy reviving this?

Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby union/Collaboration of the fortnight

I can't promise I can take part in every one, but I would like to have a go at some of them. For what it's worth, I have one potential candidate – Fylde Rugby Club, best known for producing Bill Beaumont. Alright article, but needs references, formatting, maybe one or two other things.--MacRusgail (talk) 18:54, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

I have gone for a couple of quick wins:
  1. created infobox
  2. Notable former players
(I say quick...good half hour)Kwib (talk) 20:39, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
also created an extended stub for Malcolm Phillips.Kwib (talk) 23:27, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
and a Category:Fylde Rugby Club players

Thanks, that's good. I have just added a minor change (noting that Lancashire is in England – there might be one in the USA, Canada, Australia etc for all I know), and also a couple of links. Even a few minor changes can improve an article immensely.--MacRusgail (talk) 16:33, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

I like the idea of reviving the collab. I'll chip in as best I can.--Bcp67 (talk) 17:27, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

London Irish Amateur

London Irish Amateur is up for deletion. Please add some informed remarks.

I have suggested it be merged with the main article.--MacRusgail (talk) 16:51, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Jonah Lomu

Hello

in french wikipedia, Jonah Lomu is a good article, the english version is quite good, you could better it easyly to do a good article. Ddfree (talk) 10:42, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Scrum machine

I've just written a definition of a scrum machine at Wiktionary – see wikt:scrum machine. The definition could do with improving and a picture could do with adding as well. I've requested an image at commons, but I thought that people at this wikiproject are quite likely to be some of the most able to get such a picture. You might also want to write a Wikipedia article about such machines – looking at the google image results (sadly none suitably licensed) there seem to be quite a few different design philosophies. Thryduulf (talk) 23:22, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Sports Notability

There is discussion ongoing at Wikipedia talk:BIO#RFC: WP:Athlete Professional Clause Needs Improvement debating possible changes to the WP:ATHLETE notability guideline. As a result, some have suggested using WP:NSPORT as an eventual replacement for WP:ATHLETE. Editing has begun at WP:NSPORT, please participate to help refine the notability guideline for the sports covered by this wikiproject. —Joshua Scott (LiberalFascist) 03:39, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Article for deletion

I have listed List of rugby union players banned for eye gouging for deletion. You may want to look at it and add your own comments. noq (talk) 19:26, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Nigel Brady

I have just finished adding some references to the article on Nigel Brady, along with removing the no references template and expanding the article a little from the one sentence it started with. The references already have a significant amount of information on him and there are many other sources to be found as it is.

I just wanted to point this out to you guys so someone in the Wikiproject might work on expanding the article from the available information. Well, i'm off to reference other BLPs. See ya! SilverserenC 09:43, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Debenture (sport) needs expert attention

Hey folks,

Debenture (sport) is in need of some expert attention. Please drop by and help to bring the article up to scratch. Thanks. Chris Cunningham (not at work) – talk 16:13, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Have made a few tweaks to it, but it needs to be improved, particularly in regard to football.--MacRusgail (talk) 18:34, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Top-level rugby union club competitions template

Shouldn't the Super 14 (soon to be 15) and the Pacific Rugby Cup be in the "Continental – Transnational" section rather than the "First tier leagues (outside Europe)" section?

In the case of the Super 14, the first tier domestic leagues in New Zealand and South Africa are the Air New Zealand Cup and Currie Cup respectively.

89.140.249.254 (talk) 13:01, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Burnley Rugby Club up for deletion

Thoughts and comments on the deletion on the appropriate page please.--MacRusgail (talk) 16:27, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Link to deletion page here – Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Burnley Rugby Club

Help needed with sockpuppetry case

I have put the following person up for a sockpuppetry case - Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Navid83

This user has made repeated edits to the following articles under various sock puppet IPs: Arabian Gulf rugby union team, Arabian Gulf rugby union team (sevens), Arabian Gulf Rugby Football Union. At lease one of the IP accounts, User:77.92.95.115 has been blocked and warned. There is a consistent pattern here, which suggests a user with multiple accounts. See also edit history of Rugby union in Arabian Gulf for other IPs.

Editor seems obsessed with changing Arabian Gulf to Persian Gulf. It is not wikipedia's fault that these organisations and teams chose this particular name, and in fact I do not agree with the use myself. However, it is disruptive Edits have been occurring repeatedly over a long period, but page protection has been denied for some reason.--MacRusgail (talk) 16:27, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

FYI

Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2010 May 10 Gnevin (talk) 16:56, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Ireland national rugby union team flag dispute

A user keeps adding an incorrect flag to this article , can someone else edit the article per the CON here to use the the IRFU banner for all Irish Rugby. Talk:Ireland national rugby union team#St Partick's Saltire representing Ireland in 1875. Thanks Gnevin (talk) 08:49, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Sisyphus?--MacRusgail (talk) 16:48, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
If you can't be civil. I will report you . This is the last warning I will give you ! Gnevin (talk) 23:08, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Morpeth RFC

Can one of the English editors look at this page please, I don't know how notable this side is. Is Morpeth worth saving?--MacRusgail (talk) 10:26, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

South Africa

I know we use the correct flag for SA like History of rugby union matches between South Africa and Wales which appears to be the generally accepted. However should players such as in Overseas Unions rugby union team use the date correct flag ? Gnevin (talk) 10:59, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

My big question here, is if there is an easy way of doing this? If we're going to do it, we should go the whole hog, while remembering this is never going to be completely sorted out. SA's flag change is the most important, due to its long term Tier 1 status and three changes. Fortunately most of the others weren't playing that many major games before the RWC.
I have tried to look into the issue of other flags as well. Most of the main articles on the national teams themselves look alright, but other ones will have to be verified. Here are the notable ones in alphabetical order -
  • Canada's flag changed twice, and that is represented on the Canada (main article) page – one of these changes is minimal though again, it's the change to the maple leaf in 1965 which is important.
  • I mistakenly thought that Japan may have changed its flag during the mid 20th century. It didn't (there is a change from 1999 onwards, but it involves a shift in the circle of 1%!!!).
  • Fiji – minor change in shade of blue, 1970.
  • Georgia – Complete change in 2004. (Other changes pre-1990s, but Georgia was not playing outwith the USSR fold)
  • Italy – defaced by shield in Fascist period.
  • Romania – defaced by shield in Communist period.
  • (Western) Samoa – Major change in 1949 see Flag of Samoa. Rugby playing between 1920s and 1949 not significant though.--MacRusgail (talk) 17:30, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
The question is does the historical difference matter. Gnevin (talk) 18:15, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
In the case of SA definitely, since (officially, though not always in practice) the team was supposed to be inclusive after the fall of apartheid. In the case of Romania, maybe, since at one point a lot of the caps were being handed out to Communist "security operatives" – again a question of radical regime change. The rest less so, since the changes either came at points at which they were less notable, or only just starting out. I don't think the Japanese change is important at all...--MacRusgail (talk) 00:36, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
So we accept we using the historical flag for everyone but Ireland, Japan and maybe Fiji. Now the question is what flags to use for the player? My suggestion would be to use the flag that was flown at the game or the union flew at the time so Overseas Unions rugby union team should have for the players and for example Stade Toulousain is correct for Daan Human even though he was born pre the fall of apartheid Gnevin (talk) 16:23, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Ireland is, erm, complicated (sheepish grin), as we know... Fiji and Japan can be left (I thought that Japan had changed its flag substantially, but I was thinking of the imperial and naval flags of WWII, not the national one, so pretty much irrelevant)
In the case of Daan Human, he was born in 1976, so I think the modern flag is probably the right one to use IMHO, since his playing career would be after the fall of apartheid. The Overseas Unions rugby union team played in 1986, so the '28-'94 flag should be used.--MacRusgail (talk) 23:34, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
How is WP:RUFLAG? Gnevin (talk) 15:27, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
You forgot one in your list. What about the good old US of A ? Gnevin (talk) 15:31, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
Good point. I'd forgotten about that – Hawaii and Alaska have both joined the union since the USA started playing rugby internationally. I think if we're using smaller thumbnails then people won't really be able to see whether there's forty eight, forty nine or fifty stars etc on it though. What do you think? --MacRusgail (talk) 16:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC) p.s. If people are interested, check out Flag of the United States#Historical progression of designs
I think we should use the historical flags just for the sake of keeping it consistent. Apart for the early Olympics I can't think of any thing else which would need it Gnevin (talk) 10:59, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Joseph Edward Crawshay Partridge played for Blackheath F.C. in 1905/6 and played for "South Africa" in 1903 . Should he have a Union Jack ? Gnevin (talk) 11:30, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Squads and flags

Whilst on the subject of flags, I have noticed that the template used for example in Blackeath's squad section shows the tricolor for Ireland. Does anyone have the expertise to alter the template to bring through Ireland instead?Kwib (talk) 09:33, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

{{rugby squad player | nat=IRE |natvar=rugby union |pos=FB | name=Martin Olima}} is what you want Gnevin (talk) 10:59, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
Many thanks for this. I just saw it.Kwib (talk) 15:33, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Rugby player murdered in Cumbria

I know this is the RU page, but some readers might be horrified to learn that a couple of notable rugby league players were caught up in the Cumbria shootings. Garry Purdham had played for several north west England RL clubs before he was killed, and he is the brother of five time England league cap Rob Purdham. :( --MacRusgail (talk) 10:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Buenos Aires C & RC nominated for deletion

Lads, I need some help. I'm doing Argentina's 1st division clubs pages at the moment and one of them has been put up for deletion under the pretext that the club is amateur. As we know rugby is amateur in Argentina and every single club is therefore amateur. Of course, trigger happy deletionists who understand sod all about rugby don't know that, but that doesn't stop them for nominating an article anyway. Please visit Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Buenos Aires Cricket & Rugby Club and add a comment. Thanks a lot. Saebhiar Adishatz 16:40, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm glad to see that this got saved. FruitMonkey's comments are particularly welcome. I think we have to be careful about the amateur status of much rugby, and will have a fight on our hands about it.
Personally I wish that they'd delete some of the reality TV articles instead.--MacRusgail (talk) 18:05, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
Please don't canvass like this again; neutral comments are acceptable, usually, but calls to come to the rescue on an AfD are frowned upon (especially if accompanied by silly invective about "trigger happy deletionists"). Chris Cunningham (not at work) – talk 08:39, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

List of Wales national rugby union players

I'm not able to edit or view changes to this page recently. Anyone else having problems? Eldumpo (talk) 17:39, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

I posted a query on this at Village Pump Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Error when trying to edit or compare edit differences on article and it seems others were having some problems accessing the page, and it was mentioned that there were too many 'dts' and other templates on the page. Does anyone want to consider making changes? Eldumpo (talk) 19:30, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
We need to get rid of the dates of Birth/Death. They don't help understanding, where as scores and debuts do. I'll give it a go now. FruitMonkey (talk) 20:21, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Not sure how much this has sped things up, but the DObs and Dods are gone. FruitMonkey (talk) 21:04, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for making some changes to this article. I have since managed to view the differences of particular edits, but am still getting the Wikimedia error message when I try to edit the page. Is anyone else having the problem? Is there any way the 'dts' templates can be deleted as per the comment raised at Village Pump? Eldumpo (talk) 07:37, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
Yep, it's still taking in excess of a minute for the server to generate the page here, and I'm getting errors too. I'm going to try substituting the {{dts}} templates (all 1074 of them) to see if that helps. Chris Cunningham (not at work) – talk 08:41, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
Gott in Himmel. {{dts}} is a ludicrously complicated template; substituting it only unleashes all the hair within. Someone will need to go through the list and manually remove the template code. Given that there are over a thousand entries, a bot would seem to be the best bet. Alternatively, the list should be split up by decade. I think the latter is probably the better approach in the long run. Chris Cunningham (not at work) – talk 08:53, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
The reason the list was not split by decade was to allow the list to be compared across the history of international play; for try scorers etc. I'll have a go at sorting out the remaining dts template. FruitMonkey (talk) 08:59, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
FM – once you get your head round what changes are necessary, let me know if you want any assistance. Regards Eldumpo (talk) 09:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
I've changed the dates from dts to plain text and it seems a lot quicker from my side. We can still sort the lists by most recent caps and back again by the sort toggle as the players have a number assigned which relates to the chronological appearance. Hope all are happier with this? FruitMonkey (talk) 11:16, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Yep, page generation down to ~7 seconds now from over a minute. Also helpful that removing all the templates has saved ~20k in raw page size. Chris Cunningham (not at work) – talk 12:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks to both for making the changes and comments. I have been able to edit the page now. Eldumpo (talk) 15:17, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Rugby portal

Please join the discussion at Portal talk:Rugby#The future of this portal if you are interested. LunarLander // talk // 01:10, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Talk:List of Jews in sports#Rugby

Can someone back me up on the fact that rugby union and rugby league are completely different sports, even if they do share similarities and a common ancestry.--MacRusgail (talk) 11:36, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Anglo-Welsh Cup

Isn't this competition different enough from the old RFU Knockout Cup (in reality) to warrant two articles, rather than the current page set-up which seems to marginalise the traditional role of the cup as a knockout tournament encompassing a significant number of English clubs? Strangely I note the competition isn't listed at all at the RFU results site [2] Eldumpo (talk) 15:24, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Andy Ripley

I have added the recently deceased player to the List of people from Merseyside, but the article could still do with a looking over.--MacRusgail (talk) 15:49, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Template:National rugby union

Have got a question about modifying this template. See discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby union/Templates SauliH (talk) 13:01, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Rugby Union Project Assessment – criteria

Could anyone interested have a look at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby union/Assessment to the assessment criteria list compiled by SauliH. I've only had a quick look, but it appears to be a common sense list in which historical and modern elements of the game are treated equally, built on our past discussions. The fact that no consensus was found in early discussions has led to this project being completely skewed to the majority of articles being unassessed. Any concerns should be voiced on the assessment page, but I would appreciate an opportunity to take this issue forward. Thanks. FruitMonkey (talk) 06:53, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Just added some comments to this, only to note that I was replying to the old stuff from '06 & '07! I'll get my coat... (I will be back later)--MacRusgail (talk) 15:44, 28 June 2010 (UTC) p.s. FM, I thought some of your old comments were very sensible. I believe that we should avoid overemphasising professionalism, and/or not focus exclusively on 3/6 Ns either.
At least leave a note that you looked at it. That way we know a good number of people have at least seen it before we replace the old one...SauliH (talk) 00:15, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Renaming of Super 14 article discussion

There has been a question about the moving of Super 14 at the end of this season. It has been suggested to move it to Super 15. I have questioned that move as I think Super Rugby makes far more sense. Whatever you think, can we have some people weigh in with their thoughts. The discussion can be found here. Please make comments on that page NOT here.SauliH (talk) 16:18, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

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