Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 231

This is an archive of past discussions about Wikipedia:Teahouse. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current main page.

Archive 225

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Archive 229

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Draft:Reed Farrel Coleman

Hi, Teahouse. I was asked to help another person create a Reed Farrel Coleman page, and at this point I've done most of it except write the bio. The mistake I made with my first page, before I knew about the help to be had here, was submit and continue to add, add, add -- thinking I was improving the page. It turned out I was creating a monster with too many wikilinks, inline external links, etc. Many of the references I was provided to place with the bio text were not acceptable to use, so I found and used others. The page is submitted and I think has reasonable content, appropriate references, and decent wikilinks. Could someone(s) please take a look and comment on what could use improvement for acceptance? Many thanks, Old Beeg _{··warble··} 18:58, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi Oldbeeg and welcome to the Teahouse. If you look at box at the bottom of the draft you will find several tips under "How to improve your article". You could start with writing some more about Mr. Coleman, something that others have written or said about him, something readers would like to know, not just list of his works. I did a quick Google search, and there are literary thousands of entries about him, some from very respectable newspapers and such. Use these, and you will be well on your way to a nice article. Just be sure to reference everything you find. Best, - w.carter-Talk 19:31, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion, w.carter. I went fifteen pages into the Google results and didn't find any newspaper stories beside those already referenced. There were five possible sources for information, two of which may give something new to include. Three usable reviews showed that may make good quotes if a Reviews/reception section is added to the page. Unfortunately, most of the listings were sources I have previously been advised not to use: publishers, blogs, FB, author web site, etc. Most of the bookstore, library, etc. sites had copied bio information from the author's web site. There may be thousands of hits, but from this sample, I'm guessing most are not showing anything original. Best, Old Beeg _{··warble··} 22:39, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Hello again Oldbeeg. I'm sorry to hear that the search did not produce as much as we hoped. That happens sometimes. But use however small pieces you found, try google some of his books or his pen name (if he has one) or people that he has collaborated with, information sometimes turns up without the complete name of an author but in connection to his/hers works, so that's another angle. And dare I suggest something as old fashioned as printed publications? A visit to a library? Anything is possible. Good hunting, w.carter-Talk 13:31, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi, w.carter. My county library is small and without good resources for what I'm looking for. We only have one of his books. I have found one book that I purchased online that has a few tidbits, and have used one book from my own library by Roger Sobin. Mr. Coleman appears to be a private sort. I'm hoping that what is on the page will be good enough to warrant acceptance. Many thanks, Old Beeg _{··warble··} 18:53, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

@Oldbeeg:Now look here Draft talk:Reed Farrel Coleman. :) w.carter-Talk 19:59, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Username Font

Hey Teahouse, It's me again. I wanted to know. How can I make my username a different kind of font like other users have here? Thanks, SkaterLife (talk) 14:55, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Hello SkaterLife. Check out the code of some of the usernames you like. Copy it to your sandbox and put your own name and so on in it instead. In the code there are places where you state what font you want or if you want it in bold or with some special characters. Once you play around with it you will understand how it works. When you have the signature you want, you copy the code to your Preferences (see top of your pages) and put the code in the box marked Signature + check the box underneath. Your new signature will then appear on that page. Good luck! w.carter-Talk 15:08, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say the code?SkaterLife (talk) 15:10, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Might I quickly suggest Wikipedia:Smurrayinchester's signature tutorial for a start? — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 15:17, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Well my "code" is [[User:W.carter|w.carter]][[User talk:W.carter|'''-Talk''']] You can see it when you edit here. You can take Technical 13s advice, or if you want some more help we can take this discussion to my talk page. Just post there and I will help you. w.carter-Talk 15:22, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Did I do this correctly? SkaterLife

[[User:UserBob|UserBob]] [[User talk:UserBob|talk]] (talk) 15:28, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

There's something in the middle of your signature which isn't displaying correctly. Especially if you are not also UserBob.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:30, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Uploading newer versions of a file

I would like to upload a copy of a file on wikipedia I edited using GIMP. When I go to the original file I can't change anything. Here are the pictures.

Tom the Bergeron (talk) 20:23, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi, Tom and welcome (back?) to The Teahouse. Something is causing these photos not to display in the correct section, and I'm not sure how to fix it.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:52, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

I think the alignment is goofing up due to conflicting with the table of contents to the right. I removed the multi-image template, should look better now. ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 21:01, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

@Tom the Bergeron: To answer your question, the original file is hosted at the Wikimedia Commons here, which is why you can't overwrite the image here on Wikipedia. The Commons and Wikipedia are two separate sites. Wikipedia is able to use images from the Commons, but to make changes to a file on the Commons, you have to edit it from the Commons.

However, I don't think overwriting the file is necessary in this case. Per the Common's policy on overwriting files, images should generally only be overwritten for minor and uncontroversial corrections. Color corrections can be considered minor, though in this case, I'd consider your color adjustments to be pretty significant. Note that your image currently lacks proper licensing information, which needs to be added per the instructions on the file's description. Let us know if you have any more questions. ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 21:10, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

I need help?! I need more citations for my article on Murv Jacob...

Can anyone help me? Ive been trying to get this done for over a month now... I am writing a article on Murv Jacob and they keep rejecting it :( Can anyone help me beef it up so it will be accepted???? Thanks, Holly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hollyelizabethstar/sandbox Hollyelizabethstar (talk) 17:27, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Hello, Hollyelizabethstar! I found plenty of book reviews and news reports by searching on the on the internet. I have added several to your article. You can find more by searching for his name and adding words such as "book review" or "illustrator" or by the name of some of the books. If there are authors that he works with regularly and whose books he illustrates, it might be suitable to mention them, and as well as when and by whom the books were published. —Anne Delong (talk) 00:45, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Why primary sources are bad?

Why primary sources are bad,even when they meet WP:RS? Ssaz 12 (talk) 03:27, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Welcome to the teahouse Ssaz. Primary sources aren't necessarily bad, and they can be used in Wikipedia. The challenge is that it can be difficult to use them correctly. The relevant policy states "A primary source may only be used on Wikipedia to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary source but without further, specialized knowledge." Interpretations or synthesis of source material need to be cited to secondary sources. I hope that answers your question. Keihatsu ^talk 03:52, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Hello, Ssaz 12. Although primary sources are not."bad", high quality secondary sources are preferred. The authors of such sources, and their professional editors and fact checkers, have the expertise to determine that the raw facts are important, significant, unique and worthy of in-depth discussion. Primary sources tell us none of that, and we can't make such evaluations on our own as Wikipedia editors. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:03, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Wiki

Hi I was messaged about the page I just uploaded and it has been deleted, however having read all the info available I am still unsure and having spoken to many entirely unhelpful people I am now coming to you. Can someone please help me to set this up. The page is to be created as a way to help increase SEO and not to attempt to market the brand I used examples of other companies pages to help me write it and I do not belive it is written wrongly I do hope that this time I am not just sent 10 links and am given some useful help Thanks Leah Leah Hiles (talk) 09:59, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Leah, "to help increase SEO" is promotion as far as Wikipedia is concerned and indeed the very term "search engine optimisation" is just a marketing euphemism. Sorry to be harsh, but it's not Wikipedia's job to increase your search rankings. If you are connected with the company or business, please also read WP:COI for advice on editing/creating articles when you have a conflict of interest.--ukexpat (talk) 12:53, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

(e/c) Hi Leah. I'm sorry but the article transgressed many independent basis for content we cannot accept. The page was a copyright violation, since you copied and pasted the company's linkin profile. Copyright violations are taken very seriously here so please be aware you cannot do this. That copied and pasted content was inappropriately promotional and so could not be used here even if you went through the process of irrevocably releasing the content under a free copyright license we woulf accept – that is, it could and would likely have been deleted on the basis of promotion if it was not deleted on another ground. Your reasons for posting it were also improperly promotional, and from a person (you) with a conflict of interest in doing so. Please note that saying posting the article was "not to attempt to market the brand", and in the same breath saying its purpose was to "help increase SEO" is a profound contradiction; posting a page to increase search engine optimization is just about the definition of inappropriate marketing intent in attempting to create an article. The article was actually deleted under section a7 of the criteria for speedy deletion and I agree with that basis as well. Finally, please note that since good sourcing is the key to the Wikipedia kingdom, you should be aware that the sourcing you used to attempt to provide verification of the content and show notability was not the type we seek. We need reliable independent, secondary sources, which cannot be met by circular citations to other Wikipedia articles or the company's own writing. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:54, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

All outbound Wikipedia links are made into "nofollow" links by the website's software, meaning that they should have no impact on search engine ranking of pages anyway. --LukeSurl^{t c} 13:02, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Emailing Wikipedia

Hi I emailed Wikipedia to confirm that I got permission of a image from the creator. They have not replied for over a week. How long does it usually take? I emailed normal wiki and common. Is there a quicker way to do it?

Dovikap (talk) 18:35, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

@Dovikap: Welcome to the Teahouse! Have you already uploaded the image to Wikipedia or the Commons? Looking at your upload history, I notice you uploaded File:Shado.jpg, which has since been appropriately tagged as having received proper permission. If this is the image you are talking about, everything looks good to go, even if you didn't receive a reply via email. ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 21:35, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi. No shado.jpg is not the image. I haven't uploaded it yet. Dovikap (talk) 21:42, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

@Dovikap: Gotcha - in that case, I would follow these instructions, which involve uploading the image first, tagging it, and then sending the email to the Commons OTRS volunteers to approve the granted permission. I'm not exactly sure what the OTRS volunteer would do if you haven't uploaded the image yet, so I would go through the process again. ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 21:50, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. I think it worked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dovikap (talk • contribs) 22:21, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

I am an OTRS volunteer. The permissions queue currently has 539 e-mails in it so it may take a while for one of the other volunteers to get to it.--ukexpat (talk) 13:02, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

reason for article decline

Hello, I would like to know the reason my article was declined, so I know where to focus in the help center. Would it be possible to get a more detailed explanation? I am writing the article about Speed Weed, who is a first hand source of mine and I have provided ample documentation of his writing and producing credits, so just wondering what the issue was. Thanks! Jen Ahlstrom 96.242.55.119 (talk) 16:54, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi, Jen and welcome to The Teahouse. This question is your only contribution to Wikipedia, so are you registered under a different name?

Since I don't know where the article is that you wrote, I will give some advice based on what I can see from the question. If you personally know Speed Weed, you have a conflict of interest, which can cause several problems. You are not prohibited from writing about this person, but it is difficult, even when you believe you can, to write using a neutral point of view. Also, you need independent reliable sources, not personal knowledge. We want people reading Wikipedia articles to be able to find where the information came from if they choose to do so, which helps determine the accuracy of the article. Also, we have know way of knowing whether you really do know Speed Weed. I believe you do, but we need proof of any claims made in the article. This is even more important for biographies of living persons.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:07, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

I finally figured out how to find your draft. It is here. You are User:Jenahlstrom. I'll have a look at the draft and come back.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:15, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Okay, the first problem is that you don't want a first-level heading in the article. That means take out "Speed Weed (television writer, producer)" at the top of the page. This doesn't sound like a common name so "Speed Weed" will probalby be the article name, but it won't have that name until the article is moved. In most articles the title appears in the first sentence in bold (use three quotes on either side).

These are minor, but you don't document the sources for each of the facts given in the article. We see a list of sources at the bottom of the page, but if information in the article came from any of those, the source should appear between <ref> and </ref> after the information it verifies, preferably with formatting (see WP:CITE), and not just a URL. Three of the sources cannot be used as sources, though the imdb link can stay, under the heading "External links". The links to other Wikipedia articles might be appropriate under "See also", but a Wikipedia article cannot be used as a source for another Wikipedia article. Ideally, you find the sources used for that other article and then use them in your article. I'm not sure about Tumblr. The Youtube interview might be all right as a source, but in general Youtube is not considered reliable. If the video is from a reliable source, it might work.

You should also ask MatthewVanitas, who declined your submission, for further advice. I think the article shows promise, though.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:31, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

While it is nice to have inline citations, that is a quality issue for an article rather than a reason for the article to be declined. New editors do not have to learn that <ref></ref> stuff for articles to be accepted. References at the end of the article are enough if they meet requirements for notability, except in certain special cases. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Reviewing instructions. In fact, to be accepted, other information in the article needs to have been published somewhere, but the editor doesn't have to say where. That's another quality issue. StarryGrandma (talk) 22:40, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

StarryGrandma may be right, but any help you can give the reviewers will benefit you. I left out one detail which isn't in your article since you didn't go through the actual "articles for creation". If you do use the ref tags, {{reflist}} must appear under the heading "References", probably before "External links".

Since you didn't submit the draft in the usual way, I had a hard time finding it. I realized it would be in Special:Contribs/MatthewVanitas, but I didn't know what I was getting myself into. Reviewing is a full-time job for him. Something went wrong and your submission contained no content, so as far as I know, no one has given your draft a formal review. I just did a quick one.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 16:33, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

One way to get this article reviewed again is to move it to Draft:Speed Weed. But you can put {{subst:submit}} at the top of the existing page. I don't think you should have too much trouble getting it approved.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 16:36, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks everyone, especially Vchimpanzee! I resubmitted the article according to the below, fingers crossed!

Cheers,

Jen

Jenahlstrom (talk) 13:45, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Talk page link

Hey Teahouse, So I made my signature with a part that's supposed to link to my talkpage. Only thing is, it wont link to it. Can you help me out? Thanks,☯SkaterLife☯ talk 14:34, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi @SkaterLife: Are you referring to your current signature? It looks fine to me - the 'talk' link goes straight to your talk page. If you saw your signature on your own talk page, the reason the link doesn't work there is because links from a page back to itself do not work. If you look at your signature here, it should be fine :) ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 14:38, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Oh. HA-HA. Human error. That seems to explain it. Thanks!☯SkaterLife☯ talk 14:39, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

How to clear sandbox when published wiki page us a redirect from it

I wrote the page "Ripley Ville" in my sandbox and submitted it for assessment. The assessors graded it and "published" it using a redirect from the sandbox. I need to clear the sandbox for further work. How can I do this without deleting the "published" page.PeterEltham (talk) 09:41, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Congratulations on your first (?) article. There published article won't be affected when you edit your sandbox, but current your sandbox is redirecting to the article. Click the link here[1] to go directly to your sandbox and hit "edit." You should see only a short REDIRECT template. Delete it and then you're free to start over in your sandbox. Let us know if you have any problems. Keihatsu ^talk 11:27, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Hello, PeterEltham. I was looking at your sandbox, and I noticed that you have copied a whole article into it and are making changes. I presume that you plan to copy it back after you have finished modifying it. This can cause problems, because in the meantime other editors may make other changes to the main article, and when you do your copy-back you will erase them. It's a limitation of the editing process. It's great to use your sandbox to work on the wording of a particular sentence, or the formatting of a reference you plan to add, but then the result should be added right into the main article rather than into a copy. The only time a whole article should be in your sandbox is if you are creating a new one from scratch, and even then it is better to create a user subpage, such as "User:PeterEltham/My article title", and develop the article there. I apologize if I have misunderstood what's happening there. —Anne Delong (talk) 14:41, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Why there are edit conflicts?

Think:

Bob starts editing.
Alice starts editing.
Bob finishes editing.
Alice finishes editing.

I think:Instead of an edit conflict,the Bob's revision should be replaced with Alice's revision,without a warning. Why there are edit conflicts?

Ssaz 12 (talk) 11:29, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

@Ssaz 12: Welcome to the Teahouse. Consider this: say Bob added 10 paragraphs of content to an article and Alice just fixed a spelling error. --Jakob (talk) 11:53, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi @Ssaz 12: Edit conflict occurs when 2 (or more) editors click "edit this page" and subsequently each click "save page". It alerts editor2 that editor1 clicked save while editor2 was still in edit mode... meaning that editor2 would no longer be editing the most current version of the article. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:00, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Having trouble with references

Dear Wiki community. I'm new to this game, so forgive my ignorance. I'm having trouble with some of the references that I have included in a new article on Blacksands Pacific. For some reason, some of the references are not working properly and I can't work out why. Can anybody help? This is only the 2nd article I've written, so I'm keen to learn. Thank you. Rogerbreak (talk) 17:53, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Sorry - just worked it out. I was missing a few brackets. Thanks. Rogerbreak (talk) 17:58, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi @Rogerbreak: - That's a good question about those pesky brackets so I'm including this link for other new editors who might have the same problem: references. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:07, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Why do my pages keep getting deleted?

My page is for a website. It has been deleted and nobody will respond on my talk page!Oberynsparamour (talk) 14:37, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Well, Maybe your page was promotional. Were you advertising anything?☯SkaterLife☯ talk 14:41, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Well it was basically just a page so that the website/person could be found easily.Oberynsparamour (talk) 14:42, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Did the website advertise anything? Wikipedia has a strict policy on advertising. Wikipedia doesn't want to be associated with ads in any way.☯SkaterLife☯ talk 14:48, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

For reference, the article is ANGRYGOTFAN.com. It has been tagged as not demonstrating the importance of the subject, which seems correct to me. Has this website won any awards? Has there been any major controversy over it? Have major independent sources discussed or reviewed it? --Jakob (talk) 14:49, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Why don't we carry this discussion over to my talk page, Oberynsparamour ? Just drop me a message there. And we can pick up where we left off. ☯SkaterLife☯ talk 14:50, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

I'm new to posting to wiki and I'm not sure how to message you on your talk page??Oberynsparamour (talk) 14:53, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Just click on the purple 'talk' link next to my username, and you will go to my talk page. Then click the button that says, "New Section" and you should be able to leave me a message.☯SkaterLife☯ talk 14:56, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Oberynsparamour, not every web site (or every person or every organization) will have an article in an encyclopedia; Wikipedia is no different. Wikipedia uses the term "notable" to describe whether a topic can have its own article. There are specific guidelines at Wikipedia:Notability, but the general thrust is that a topic must have received significant coverage in multiple reliable sources that are independent of the subject and independent of one another. As it currently stands, the article ANGRYGOTFAN.com does not satisfy this at all. It also has other issues about not being written from a Neutral Point of View, but that is not why it has been proposed for deletion. I suggest you read WP:A7, as spelled out in the notice placed at the top of your article, because your comments on the Talk page have all completely missed the point - it is not a matter of whether you think it is important, it is a matter of being able to show evidence that multiple independent sources have documented that in some detail. --Gronk Oz (talk) 15:26, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Change the title of a page

We have changed the name of our association and need to change the title of the page. How do I do this? Do I need to create a new page and link from the old page to the new page? SITE-Incentive Travel (talk) 18:45, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, SITE-Incentive Travel. It appears likely that your username violates our username policy so I recommend that you change it promptly. Please also familiarize yourself with our guidelines for editors with a conflict of interest. The move procedure is the method to give an article a new name. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 20:14, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

It appears you won't need to move the page. It has been nominated for deletion.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 15:12, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

The article has also been tagged for speedy deletion as a copyright violation from http://www.siteglobal.com/p/cm/ld/fid=144 - David Biddulph (talk) 16:14, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

How are duplicate submissions handled?

I submitted my first page. I was not sure the submission process had been correct. I then created the page a second time and submitted it again. Here is the link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Dennis_william_nyback/Oregon_cartoon_institute

It appears the second submission was rejected because of the first one. That is fine with me. The first one was better.

Is my first submission still under consideration and how long will that consideration take? Dennis william nyback (talk) 15:13, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

@Dennis william nyback: Your draft is still waiting for review. It's at Draft:Oregon cartoon institute. I'd suggest breaking it into sections, which makes it more readable. Also, about a third of your references are to YouTube, IMDB, and Tumblr, which are usually frowned upon as sources. The draft will likely be declined for this reason alone unless you replace them with better ones, but it won't be deleted unless you abandon it or request deletion. The main problem with your sources is that anyone can fake a YouTube video, blog, or IMDB entry. On the other hand, it's virtually impossible to fake a newspaper article, book, or government document, so these and other such sources are OK. --Jakob (talk) 17:16, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, Jakob. Dennis william nyback (talk) 17:36, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

To be pedantic, the draft is not at Draft:Oregon cartoon institute, but at Draft:Oregon Cartoon Institute. The first link is a redlink because Wikipedia page titles are case sensitive. - David Biddulph (talk) 16:23, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

"Coordinates missing" situation

This article is catted as needing coordinates. It is about an outbreak of wildfires across two states. It refers to locations using city and county names which are all linked. Looking for advice as to how to approach.

Do nothing except remove the {{coord missing}}, since each of the linked cities and counties has its own coordinates
Add title coordinates that approximate the center of ALL the fires with a low precision per WP:OPCOORD
Add coordinates to this article for each of the named cities and counties (specifically where and in what form?)
Research to try to establish more specific burn areas for each fire, estimate the center of each burn area, and add the resulting coordinates (ugh)
Something else

Thanks! Btw, I see the problem with refs and will address that too. Mandruss (talk) 20:02, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

@Mandruss: I'd recommend asking your question at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Geographical coordinates, where people who are interested in coordinates hang out. I'm not sure of the typical approach for articles where more than one location is covered, but they probably know and can help out! Calliopejen1 (talk) 22:33, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

@Mandruss: (e/c) Hey Mandruss. It's very unclear to me that adding coordinates would be a benefit to this article at all. Does every article that with a location prominently featured (but which is not an article on a location topic need coordinates? What about every article that mentions multiple locations? Seems to me doing so would leave an article cluttered and that such coordinates inserted in the middle of running text, as would seem to be called for here, would break the flow. As you've indicated, there is no easy way to pinpoint the exact locations and since all of the locations nearby are linked and have their own coordinates, I view it as, at the least, a very low priority task. Using the time you (or anyone) might have spent to instead verify the text with reliable sources is in my estimation a massively better use of that finite resource. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 22:44, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

@Fuhghettaboutit: Yeah, I do have a tendency to be overly literal at times, and the cat name is Oklahoma articles missing geocoordinate data, not Oklahoma articles possibly needing geocoordinate data. And I'm not comfortable trusting my own judgment in such gray areas yet. I've asked the question at the aforementioned project. Thanks to both of you for the feedback. Mandruss (talk) 23:05, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

How to lock down Gail Dines' page

Hi there,

I'm working with [[[Gail Dines|https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gail_Dines]]], whose Wikipedia page seems to have become a sort of fighting ground for folks pro- and anti-porn. Gail is an anti-porn activist, so her article is bound to contain her ideas, which may inflame some people. She completely understands that Wikipedia needs to be factual and based on sources, but is upset at what has happened to her page, which affects her safety and career. Our end goal is the same as Wikipedia's: to represent her opinions and criticism neutrally, and clean up her page from the current alert messages that show, hopefully resolving issues with trolling as well.

I've had a look at the "Talk" page and I'm unclear what I'm supposed to add to help resolve these disputes. I've also submitted to the Help page and help email, and got replies from neither. I tried to do the IRC chat but can't seem to type in it to chat.

Please instruct me, and if you can actively help in any way, that would be greatly appreciated. This is quite a headache for non-Wikipedia folk. Thank you so much for your help!

Julia Juliabarry (talk) 14:26, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Welcome to the tea-house.
Although Wikipedia articles which have been subject to repeated vandalism can be semi-protected, I don't see any indication whatsoever of Gail Dines article being a "fighting ground". There seems to have been only one piece of vandalism this year (6 April), whilst no-one has edited the talk page this year at all. There is, therefore, no chance of the page being semi-protected, as there is, currently, no need.
As you admit you are working with Dines, you should read, and follow, our guidance on confluict of interest and avoid editing her page, except in the very limited circumstances explained in that guideline. - Arjayay (talk) 14:43, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Hello @Juliabarry:, Wikipedia editors sometimes (often?) disagree, and while I agree with Arjayay that there isn't enough vandalism or edit-warring on the article about Dines to justify any sort of technical protection, I do agree with you that the article's neutrality is disputed (and has been since 2011!), which certainly makes it a battleground of sorts. The subject matter is clearly controversial. There have been a number of attempts to improve this, including by User:TheRedPenOfDoom just over a month ago and User:The Vintage Feminist just over a day ago, but it's still far from perfect. I've just trimmed some problematic material myself, in these edits.

You might like to raise the issue at WP:BLPN, where a more nuanced consideration of the problem might be possible. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:23, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

One thing that seemed (and still seems) to be missing from the article is any positive reception. @Juliabarry:, as someone who is familiar with her work, you could help by pointing to reliably published sources that have positive things to say about her analysis/positions etc, and places where her activism has had real world impact - laws passed, traffickers closed down etc. Some of us are kind of lazy and / or dont have easy access to / knowledge of the sources that say good things about her work but would be happy to incorporate materials if someone brought links/references to the talk page. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 02:07, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi and thanks, @TheRedPenOfDoom: and @Demiurge1000:! I've sent you both messages on your Talk pages with more sources I was able to dig up about Gail's work, as well as TV appearances and media/writings she's created that position her as a legitimate expert. Please let me know if you need anything else! Thanks so much for your help. --JuliaBarry

Am I in conflict of Interest for Requesting an Article on Wikipedia?

Am I in Conflict of Interest if I submit a 'request for an article' for a company to which I am employed?Smritnisheeth (talk) 09:12, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Requesting the article in and of itself is fine, be really careful if you edit it yourself as that could be where the Conflict of Interest bit could come into play. I strongly suggest reading WP:COI and declaring that you do work for the company when you put in the request. ♥ Solarra ♥ ^{♪ 話 ♪} ߷ _{♀ 投稿 ♀} 11:13, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Error?

Hi, I would appreciate someone checking this and this edit regarding Emmy dates. I can't see where it says August 16, but after I changed it to the 25 it was changed back to the 16 with no explanation. Am I making a simple error? Thanks, Mat ty.007 13:13, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Greetings Matty and welcome to the teahouse. I looked at both those links. Perhaps I'm missing something but it seems to me that both your edits were valid and that no one reverted them. The article that I see here: 66th_Primetime_Emmy_Awards says as of now that the date is "Monday August 25, 2014 at the Nokia Theatre in Downtown Los Angeles" which I think is as you left it in your last edit. Also, the history page for that article lists your edit as the most recent one and no one reverted it. And the same for the other article. Has someone challenged the edit on the talk page or something or am I missing something? BTW, one thing that happens to me sometimes is I have multiple windows open and I can pull up a window with the page in it that hasn't been reloaded since the most recent edit and see an old version of an article. Perhaps something like that happened to you? --MadScientistX11 (talk) 13:31, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

MadScientistX11: thanks for the speedy reply. In this edit, a user changed the date back from 25 to 16 for no given reason, I asked them just now on their talk page, but I wanted to check I wasn't in error. Thanks, Mat ty.007 13:34, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Ah, it was my error, thanks for the help. Thanks, Mat ty.007 13:46, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

How to mark for deletion

Hello, How do I tag an article for deletion, please? Some articles give links in the left hand panel and some do not. I believe the article in question was created to sell bogus goods and perpetuate a fraud on the public. Kiltpin (talk) 13:28, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Hello Kiltpin, and welcome! If you see an article you think may not be appropriate for the encyclopedia, please refer to this section and follow its instructions. It will give you advice on what articles do and do not warrant this action, and how to proceed if you believe it does. Could you provide the name of the article so we could see what you're referring to? --McDoob AU93 14:06, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

I also think posting the article here is a good idea. Also, I would try to refrain from using confrontational words like "bogus goods". Remember the principle to wp:assume good faith --MadScientistX11 (talk) 14:18, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

It's me again ... I took the liberty of checking the articles you've contributed to and found the article you may be referring to, Aleksandar Bačko. I looked at it and while I agree that off-hand there's not much to establish notability, there are a number of references and external links that might do so. The problem this article has is there are no footnotes to indicate which statements in the article are backed up by sources. I've tagged the article with a request for additional sources, especially since the person is apparently still alive and thus WP:BLP still applies, as well as for adding footnotes to connect to the references that are listed. I hope that gives you a better idea of how the process works, but feel free to respond if you have other questions. --McDoob AU93 14:19, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

I suspect that this refers to Dunans Castle (see discussion at Talk:Dunans Castle), rather than to Aleksandar Bačko. --David Biddulph (talk) 14:33, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

I looked at it again, and it looks like you're right, David. That said, the Bačko article did need the tags I added to it, so either way we're making some progress. After review, I can kind of see what Kiltpin is on about, but the article does have a fair number of third-party sources, and to me, this "gimmick" that they're referring to, if such concerns/criticism is cited, could actually be what makes it notable. --McDoob AU93 14:41, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

how i write article in wikipedia writer slubna khan (talk) 06:22, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

how i write article in wikipedia,how i upload pic in article and how i publish that article? writer slubna khan (talk) 06:22, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, writer slubna khan. Please read A Primer for beginners, which should answer most of your questions. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 07:01, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

ok so what is 1st step?writer slubna khan (talk) 12:45, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Hello, Writer slubna khan. What you need to do is described in your first article. But please, please, please, before you try to write a new article, start by working on existing articles. Find articles on things you are interested in, and see what can be improved. Learn about editing Wikipedia on existing articles, rather than plunging straight in and trying the very hard task of making a new article.

Looking at your user page User:Writer slubna khan, I suspect that you are trying to write an article there. If so, please be aware that original research is not acceptable in Wikipedia: articles must be entirely about subjects which have already been written abou5t in reliable published places. Again, Your first article will give you guidance. --ColinFine (talk) 16:47, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Page Creation

Greetings guys!

I am a manager for Jalen Mcmillan & I have tried several different times to create his page, however they always seem to get deleted. Any help in regards to this would be fantastic!

If you prefer to contact me via private messages feel free to do so.

Thank you guys for being a wonderful help. DerekHoytink (talk) 06:32, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

It's probably because its either advertisement-like or not notable enough. Pokebub22 (talk) 06:45, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, DerekHoytink. Three reviewers have declined your draft article, and each time, the reviewers have left detailed explanations. Have you read those explanations and clicked on the links provided? To give you the most simple answer, you have not providing any convincing evidence that this person is notable by Wikipedia's standards. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:57, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Please, send me a private message I have a few more questions.

Your quick response is greatly appreciated!DerekHoytink (talk) 06:51, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Hello, DerekHoytink. It is unlikely that anybody is going to send you a private message: Wikipedia simply doesn't work that way; nearly everything is discussed in public. As a manager for Jalen Mcmillan, you are strongly discouraged from working on any article about him, as you have a conflict of interest. You could request that somebody else write an article at requested articles; but you are more likely to be successful if you collect a number of reliable independent sources (such as major newspapers) unconnected with Mcmillan, which have written at some length about him. --ColinFine (talk) 16:52, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Multiple references to various pages of the same source

Is there a video or guide with advanced techniques and macro tools (like Prove It or others) about sourcing an article with numerous links to multiple pages of the same source? Is it necessary to move to a Notes/Bibliography format or can it be kept in the References format? I'm an intensely visual person and can pick up the skill incredibly more quickly from a video. Alatari (talk) 07:55, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

It's actually quite simple to add page numbers to inline references. Immediately after the reference itself (following the </ref> or <ref name /> you add {{rp|page=48}} or {{rp|pages=152-156}}. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:26, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

And if you want to use the same pages of the source as a reference several times, you can use a named reference.--ukexpat (talk) 17:44, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Removing your article from your sandbox

I've just created a new article on Nellie Graves. How do I get it out of my sandbox?StormBattalion3414 (talk) 16:18, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi @StormBattalion3414: Do you think you could clarify your question? Looking at your contributions, I see that you have already created Nellie Graves, which is currently a live article. You don't seem to have any sandboxes other than User:StormBattalion3414/TWA/Earth and User:StormBattalion3414/TWA/Earth/2, which are unrelated. Thanks, ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 17:02, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

I was asking because I was told by a staff at the Pritzker that I had to figure out how to get my work out of the sandbox after I finished editing it in private. It has occurred to me that that is not necessary since I never put any of my articles into the sandbox in the first place so I can edit any of them in private. No worries.StormBattalion3414 (talk) 17:45, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Help with my article

I'd like advice on my new article which I created with the article wizard, I haven't put it on the live wikipedia yet. It can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Granola_t/Roadstarr_Motorsport#Services Granola t (talk) 17:19, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

I took the liberty of running WP:Reflinks on the article. Reflinks auto improves the formatting of the citations. If you find it is not helpful then please revert the edit or contact me and I will revert it for you, no questions asked.

The article is a little promotional sounding because you say the company is "leading", and that it "specializes" etc. You also say things like "quickly caught the eye". These kind of adjectives and expressions are fine for a magazine article but not for an encyclopedia which requires a more disinterested tone. Also the long, long list of products and services is excessive. The products and services should be summarized in one or two sentences. Good luck.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 17:52, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

I also think there is excessive citing of the company website and the notablility of the company per WP:ORG is marginal. I think you have a better chance of getting this published on WP if you cut it back to one solidly sourced paragraph using your best sources. I think attempting to fill it out with cites to the company web site will work against you rather than for you when it is reviewed or possibly nominated for deletion (see WP:AfD) after it is published.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 18:00, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Foreign language templates

{{lang}} vs. {{lang-fr}}: which one should I use when writing English language articles about the province of Quebec? What is the difference? - Sweet Nightmares 18:03, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

@SweetNightmares: The difference is that {{lang-fr}} produces "French:" before the relevant text and italicizes the text, whereas {{lang}} just adds invisible code indicating that the text is in French. That is, {{lang|fr|Je suis française.}} produces Je suis française. but {{langx|fr|Je suis française.}} produces French: Je suis française. Which one you use depends on what you're trying to do. Calliopejen1 (talk) 19:27, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Referencing

Hello! I am completely new to Wikipedia editing and am having some trouble correcting some referencing on the Hampton Wick Railway Station page. Could you please advise me?Christiana Logan (talk) 19:13, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

@Christiana Logan: I just fixed the problem with this edit. One note, though -- given the title of the reference, it seems unlikely to me that the reference supports the article's statement that "CID investigated the issue but whoever left the baby never came forward." (It seems more likely that it supports the statements about the discovery of the baby i.e. "On 18 June 1930 a baby boy was found in the First Class carriage of a train travelling from Waterloo by Mr Paul Broome, the railway guard. The baby was found with a note which indicated whoever left him contemplated suicide. The baby was taken to Kingston Hospital." but that a later article, if any, would have discussed an investigation.) If the reference does not support that last statement, please move the footnote code one sentence earlier, and add an additional reference for that last statement. Happy editing! Calliopejen1 (talk) 19:33, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Translating of pages

I think this is my first question in the Teahouse.

I have translated one page which may have gone better but had it's own limitations and I hope to still improve it.

In future I would like to do a few more translations as time and interest permit and would like to have an idea of how cross language citations should normally be handled.

If an paragraph has a reference to say a book what do I do after I have translated the information? How literally do I have to do the translation? Is there an onus on me to verify the contents of the source? What happens if the source is in a different language that I do not understand but possibly from a third language WikiPage? If a page has been published in one language does it kind of confer the notability and other requirements onto a translation of the same? Is ther a FAQ with all these answers :-?

Idyllic press (talk) 21:15, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

@Idyllic press: There aren't firm rules on most things -- you can check out Wikipedia:Translation#How_to_translate for some guidance. The one firm rule is that the authors of the foreign-language Wikipedia article must be credited, because this is required by Wikipedia's license. I'd recommend both adding an edit summary when you're doing the translation that indicates its source and adding the template {{Translated}} (fill in the relevant parameters) on the article's talk page. Re: how literal the translation must be, there are no firm rules. When I translate, I often omit content that seems dubious, change sentence structure, etc. The fidelity to the "original" is not really a concern given that Wikipedia is freely editable. Re: verification of references, different editors likely have different opinions about whether you are expected to verify the original sources or not. In my opinion, while it might be ideal, it is not necessary. I don't think it's any different than, say, copyediting an article on en.wikipedia where you haven't looked at the original sources. (In the end, it's necessary to assume good faith on behalf of some contributor who looked at the original book and has incorporated the information into Wikipedia.) I would be on the lookout, however, for any signs that the original foreign-language article is a copyright violation. That's one place where translation can make a problem bigger than it originally was. I have largely stopped translating articles where I cannot verify at least a portion of the article against the original sources, because I have learned that my ability to detect the "style" of copyright violations or close paraphrasing is worse in Spanish than in English, and I don't want to run this risk. Finally, the existence of an article in another language does not confer notability here. Notability is judged by the existence of independent secondary sources that discuss the topic of the article in some depth. However, the sources do not have to be in English (see WP:NONENG). So if the foreign-language article is adequately sourced, notability here is not an issue. Calliopejen1 (talk) 21:38, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

BTW Benin Bronzes is one article that I translated from Spanish, closely in places and loosely in others, and combined with the existing English Wikipedia content. So maybe looking over that, you can get a sense for what I was talking about. Calliopejen1 (talk) 21:39, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Finding pages to translate

My second post to the Teahouse, they are relating to the same end goal but different specialities.

I would like to translate some pages (in part to practice my language skills) and also to help even out the missing languge pages for subjects I enjoy.

Is there a robot, tool, lookup that would assist me with automating a search (as a vlunteeer I do not have the patience to exhaustively search manually to find later I missed one where my time would have been better spent).

So what I would like is to generate is a list of pages that are in https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luokka:Tekniikka and recursively in the sub groups that do not yet have linked English language pages.

This would give me a list of technology pages written in Finnish that do not have a (linked) counterpart in English. I could then select something of interest I am knowledgeble about and attempt to make a translated page.

Even if this list was generated just once it would give me more oppotunities than I have time for I think and manually verifying the current status would be acceptable.

Going the other way would have many more holes but my translation skills in that direction would make for very slow progress though there might be other volunteers if such a list were available.

Is there a translation community that has already addressed such tasks?

Idyllic press (talk) 21:33, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

@Idyllic press: Yes, see this tool! The search results you would be interested in are here. You also can look through manually tagged translation requests at Category:Articles needing translation from Finnish Wikipedia. Relatively few people here do translation work, so the "translation community" is not very big. But you can leave messages at Wikipedia talk:Translation if you'd like to reach out to other translators. They may or may not respond... :/ Calliopejen1 (talk) 21:42, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Where to upload this table?

Hi. I made a table of German irregular verbs conveniently arranged by phonemic vowel change (or ablaut), which you can find here, in the form of an image. Dictionaries and textbooks always list them alphabetically, but I find this organization particularly convenient (this is how I learned English irregular verbs like think-thought-thought in the first place). So, my question: is there anywhere on Wikipedia or Wiktionary I could upload this to? (Note that I'd do it digitally, in the form of text, not an image). I'm kind of sad that so far it's been only available to conlangers at the website linked to, when it'd be better at home on Wikipedia or a similar project. Thanks. --Serafín33 (talk) 21:17, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

@Serafín33: This seems more like something that would fit in a book for language learners, rather than an encyclopedia like Wikipedia. I think the best home for it would be at Wikibooks but to be honest I know fairly little about that site. It might be worth asking over there about how to incorporate it into their library. Calliopejen1 (talk) 21:45, 16 July 2014 (UTC)