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Talkback

Hello, Yunshui. You have new messages at Titodutta's talk page.
Message added 16:44, 29 October 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Tito Dutta (talk) 16:44, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Award for being great!

The Special Barnstar
There's no way to describe why I'm offering you this Barnstar. You really are a tireless contributor and I feel this Barnstar would show some of my appreciation for you. Thank you, Yunshui! KazLabz (talk) Respond on my talkpage! I'm not an administrator! 22:24, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ranunculoid

I don't see why VMware is exempt from "wikipedia style" but NVIDIA isn't. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ranunculoid (talk • contribs) 11:28, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

MOS:TM states "Follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules, even if the trademark owner considers nonstandard formatting "official"" and "Using all caps is preferred if the letters are pronounced individually, even if they don't stand for anything." Nvidia is pronounced "en-vidia", and thus requires only a single initial capital. VMware is pronounced "vee-em-ware", and thus requires that both the V and the M be capitalised. NVIDIA would be used if the company's name were pronounced "en-vee-eye-dee-eye-ay" - I don't believe this to be the case, but if you can provide a source showing that it is, please feel free to request a change on the article's talkpage. Yunshui 雲‍水 11:37, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

User:Lickheart

Just FYI - sock of User:Sonphan1 -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 15:04, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Sometimes I wonder if there are more than ten actual vandals on Wikipedia; every second one I block (or - embarassingly - unblock) seems to be a sock of someone else... Yunshui 雲‍水 15:06, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
At least you won't be needing to unblock this one ;-) It's some kid in Vietnam, by the looks of things. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 15:09, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
Industrious little fella, isn't he? Yunshui 雲‍水 15:11, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
There are more untagged or incorrectly tagged ones too - look for users starting User:Sonphan...

The Signpost: 29 October 2012

Adding a tattoo artist to the list

Hi, I would like to add to the table List of tattoo artist an Italian tattoo artist Tom|Tattoo, real name Tommaso Buglioni, one of "the fathers" of modern tattoo art in Italy, working since 1982. He has long worked in the USA, partecipating to several conventions in the States, as, for instance, The NYC Tattoo Convention since his first edition in late '90s. He has a page in the Italian Wikipedia: can I add him to the list even if he has not an English page? I guess I'd mention some reliable sources, how about if I add a list of English language pubblication mentioning Tom Tattoo? Where should I do it? How can I add his name to the list and make it appear in the table? Thanks for your help--Giulia Visci (talk) 10:47, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Generally, it's preferable to write the article first. However, if you can provide sources which demonstrate he meets the notability guidelines (having a page on another wiki isn't sufficient on its own, though the Italian Wikipedia page may list some sources you could use) then you could probably add him. To do so, add the text:

|-

| {{Sortname|Tommaos|Buglioni}}
| (years active)
| Italian

| aka "Tom Tattoo" (additional notes) <ref>(reference)</ref>

to the bottom of the table at the page List of tattoo artists, making sure that you place it between the last entry and the |} device (which marks the end of the table). Yunshui 雲‍水 10:56, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

You're Wrong

Wikipedia's current "definition" of "notability" is WRONG, and it's going to CHANGE. Fansites ARE acceptable as sources, and to say otherwise is to say that they don't matter, which is not true. ResonX (talk) 14:35, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Good luck with that. However, as you say, we are operating under Wikipedia's current definition of notability, which excludes such sites as reliable sources. Yunshui 雲‍水 14:37, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

As I just told you, that doesn't matter. What matters is what's RIGHT, and your definition is WRONG. ResonX (talk) 14:38, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Also, reliable sources are not the only sources. "Non–reliable" sources are lesser than reliable ones, but still count for something. ResonX (talk) 14:40, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

With an attitude like that which expressly dismisses Wikipedia policies is likely to end with you having a short, but unhappy time here. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 14:44, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
It's not my definition. It's Wikipedia's definition, arrived at by community consensus, which is the principal determiner of policy on this site. May other wikis allow fansites as sources, possibly even some of the other language Wikipedias. On the English version of Wikipedia, though, fansites, blogs and forums are not considered viable sources. If you want to change that, I'd suggest you start by proposing your changes at Wikipedia talk:Verifiability, and go from there. If you want to use sources which are currently regarded as unreliable for the purposes of establishing notability, you should try discusssing it at Wikipedia talk:Notability. Personally, I don't think you'll get anywhere - I mean that as a friendly suggestion that you avoid wasting your time and effort, not as a discouragement - but you're welcome to try. Yunshui 雲‍水 14:46, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

OKPay

I think you have erred in your deletion of this article. It made a worthy claim of notability and I'm not sure what exactly you saw that made it "unambiguous advertising", but FYI, listing the features of a service is not. Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 14:43, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi Marcus. You're right - I deleted it becuase it failed A7, but because User:Panyd had included G11 when they tagged it with {{db-multiple}}, both reasons showed up in the deletion log. Normally I remove the ones I disagree with, but I obviously forgot this time. I'm not going to restore it and redelete it merely to remove the extraneous deletion tag (don't want to clog the log up) but thanks for pointing it out. Yunshui 雲‍水 14:51, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
I'm sorry, I didn't read your question fully - you also claimed it made a claim to notability. That I can't see - the text doesn't distinguish it from any other online payment system, of which there are hundreds (mostly non-notable), and there are no third-party sources to suggest it passes GNG. If you want to recreate the page with some appropriate sources (you know the drill), be my guest. Yunshui 雲‍水 14:55, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
300,000 active users, if true (and Alexa appears to validate this), is the same size community as LevelUp. 300,000 is a notable assertion so I would say AfD would be a better venue if it comes to that. There are plenty of sources, albeit some in Russian and of undetermined reliability, [1] [2] [3] [4] and someone thought it was notable enough to write about it on the Russian Wikipedia. Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 16:48, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
I personally disagree (well, obviously I do, otherwise I wouldn't have deleted it!), but my opinion's beside the point. I'd be more than happy to resurrect the article to your userspace if you want to work on it; let me know if you'd like me to do that. Yunshui 雲‍水 08:26, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
Yes please. Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 14:00, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
Done; it's now here for you to play with. Yunshui 雲‍水 14:04, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Sreelakshmi Suresh - Again!

Sorry to bother you, but hope you remember the article, the last AFD discussion etc. The article is - Sreelakshmi Suresh Though I was totally against this article before and started the 4th AFD nomination and discussion, I gave up after you explained the importance of 'Notability' and the Wikipedia basics related to it. I had no complaints on it too. During and after the 4th AFD, the article was pretty much tidy up. I didn't edit it much but I saw other user wikipedia users edited the article as the AFD discussion attracted many. Anyway, I see many small changes recently. Few are somewhat vandalizing and some genuine editing too. anyway, I see few lines are added back in the article by the senior member Mkdw To make it short, here is the discussion we had. I also added a new section in the talk page of the original article - section 8.

Would you please have a look and comment on it? Either here or in the talk page of the article. As you know I am not very familiar with some of the Wkipedia guidlines, so it will be great if you point out whether I am wrong at any point. Thanks in advance. --LVerina (talk) 09:51, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

You aren't planning to let this drop, are you? I've left some comments at the article's talkpage. Yunshui 雲‍水 10:22, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
LOL. No, I have no plan for another round of fight on this:) Seriously. As you can see I didn't make any edits after that at all. I see vandalism attempts by few recently and I also see Mkdw adding many lines back. That is when I thought of contacting you again. As I mentioned, the article was pretty neat and tidy up after 4th AFD discussion. It was pretty much on the neutral way. But if we add the lines which were removed before to make the article big, I do not think it will do any good. While I understand the guidelines, rules and notability related parts of Wikipedia, there are a lot of people who rely on Wikipedia thinking its fully (or almost fully) genuine. Yes, it is their fault I know, but the reference to 'AAW' and 'International Awards' will mislead a lot which I am sure. As I see the same thing happened/happening still in India as newspapers and media project the girl as someone with exceptional skills! Thanks again, for checking it and commenting on. --LVerina (talk) 10:55, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Yunshui. You have new messages at Sriharsh1234's talk page.
Message added 15:16, 1 November 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Sriharsh1234 15:16, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Kalyanasundaram

It must be right to delete this page. So you would have done it. But can I get to see the contents of this page so I can try to wikify it? --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 05:25, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi Abhijeet. The page was deleted as a copyright violation, so I'm afraid I can't restore it. However, the text was copied from this article in The Hindu, so you see what had been written by looking there. The subject appears to be notable; I wish you luck in developing the article. Yunshui 雲‍水 08:09, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
Wow! What a great feeling it is to see such a nice message. It gives me immence pleasure to see your response that the person seems notable. Thanks a lot. I have created a page with the name. I was not able to work on it due to lack of time now. I will work on it in a couple of days. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 08:50, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
No rush - there's no deadlines here. I look forward to seeing what you come up with. Let me know if you need a hand with anything. Yunshui 雲‍水 08:53, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Re:Barnstar awarded by you

Thanks. But, I am not in this family to earn a name or fame for myself. I am here to learn, and whenever and where ever possible to share the results of my learning with others regardless of caste, kind or creed as they say in India. Please do not award or appreciate me. Instead, be harsh, scold me as a teacher would. Keep on guiding me, your continued interest in my progress is the greatest and most truthful reward that I humbly seek. Respectful regards.Soni Ruchi (talk) 14:10, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

You want scolding? Okay - stop being so damn humble! You're doing a good job getting to grips with Wikipedia, and you're adding some useful content; yes, there are issues you need to overcome, but you've shown an understanding of wikimarkup, some grasp of policy, and most of all, a willingness to work communally, which is the most important asset anyone can have here. Consider yourself told off for demeaning your good work to date! Yunshui 雲‍水 14:20, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Smithsonian Gardens

Dear Yunshui: I am recreating a page, with new content, that you previously deleted. I had assistance. I read your other page that you requested users to read first. Please see user sandbox and comment. Thank you. Geraldshields11 (talk) 14:22, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Section from another user's talkpage

Cut from talk page

Since the article is now gone (and the talk page with it!) I just wanted to chime in here with a couple of points. First, the alleged copyright infringement of content from gardens.si.edu is not really valid since the Smithsonian Gardens web page was created and maintained by a quasi-Federal government institution--it seems to me that this content should be in U.S. public domain. However, I do understand the need for a greater variety of sources. Second, Geraldshields11, if you do want to keep working on this article in some sandbox space until it is ready for primetime, I am glad to help out with that effort in any way I can. I do have access to the two published print books (Otteson and Park) cited in the article Enid A. Haupt Garden, and can help adding those citations if needed. Thanks for your hard work in sharing knowledge about these important landmark gardens on our National Mall.--Sarasays (talk) 14:00, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi, please take a look at my expansion of your work on Smithsonian Gardens. It is currently in my user sandbox, because I didn't want to gunk up your talk page any more. I think it is ready for you to to try publishing it again, if you agree. Keep me posted!--Sarasays (talk) 17:24, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
Dear Fellow Wikipedia Editors: Please do the edit at Sarasays' user sandbox. It is a better place and I have already edited and provided discussion at the sandbox talk page. I really appreciated the efforts in making Smithsonian Gardens a better article than the pickachu articles. Geraldshields11 (talk) 01:22, 23 October 2012 (UTC) 01:16, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Gerald. Looks good to me (looks excellent, in fact; well-sourced, nicely written, good structure and coverage), feel free to whack it into mainspace whenever you like. Yunshui 雲‍水 14:26, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
Dear Yunshi, Thank you for the compliment. Geraldshields11 (talk) 15:21, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

DYK nomination for Smithsonian Gardens

Allen3 nominated Smithsonian Gardens for consideration to appear on the Main Page as part of Wikipedia:Did you know. You can see the hook for the article here, where you can improve it if you see fit. Geraldshields11 (talk) 15:20, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Re: adoption

Hi! I finally remembered my password - I've been editing surreptitiously as an IP for a few months now :P. I've lurked on Wiki for years now, so I know most of the policies intimately - however, I would like to expand my editing horizons. I've mostly limited myself to cosmetic changes, patent-POV removals, and the occasional sourcing... but I've only made a few tentative steps into the actual writing of articles, sections, sub-sections, etc., and then only on one or two articles that I was extremely familiar with. I'm not particularly self-assured! I guess that's a good place to start. I would also be keen to get more involved in the community, the spirit of things, etc. I guess in terms of specifics I need assistance when it comes to writing in an encyclopaedic style, and a more thorough explanation of sources and how to use them, eg. what you can and cannot use a source to claim, synthesis and all that... I hope you know what I mean!!! Anyway, thank you for the offer and I will gladly take you up on it, if you're still keen. Regards, D. Psychonavigation (talk) 01:06, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi Psychonavigation - consider yourself adopted, then. As I said on your talkpage, it's clear you know what you're doing, so I suspect this will be a fairly hands-off adoption. However, you can regard me as a first port of call with any questions or problems you have, and if you need assistance writing articles, I'd be happy to lend a hand. Given what you've said above, there's one page in my adoption school you might want to have a go at: the quiz on reliable sources. If you'd like to take it, substitute a copy into your own userspace (create a user subpage with the content "{{subst:User:Yunshui/Adoption/Sources}}") and answer the questions there.
I look forward to working with you on the encyclopedia. Welcome aboard, and happy editing! Yunshui 雲‍水 08:18, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
Something else that might be useful is this essay (it's pitched at newbies and so is a bit below your level, but you may find something useful there). I'd strongly recommend you have a go at creating an article in the near future, it's a very rewarding process. If you'd like to start one off in your sandbox, rather than mainspace, then I'd be happy to help you work it up to a suitable standard before releasing it into the wild. Yunshui 雲‍水 09:58, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much :). I'll take a look at those pages. Yeah, don't worry, I shouldn't be bothering you too much :P I tend to be the sort who browses whilst editing, so a lot of my edits are incidental. But I'm finding more and more time to do some more significant edits, so I'll come to you if I have any larger textual additions in mind. As for writing an article, it's kind of like that saying that "everything that's been invented has already *been* invented", but there are a couple of things in my local area that may or may not be notable enough for their own article... I'll give it some thought. Once again, thanks a lot, and I'll be sure to let you know when I need some help. Peace. :) Psychonavigation (talk) 06:10, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Rollback rights

WAIT! Please read this post ENTIRELY before tossing it in the metaphorical trashbin with disgust. The heading makes it seem I would like rollback rights NOW, but that isn't true. Clearly I'm too inexperienced to recieve rollback rights.

Anyway, I've been doing some vandal-fighting mixed in with some new-user welcoming. For the vandal-fighting part, I have found it pretty inconvenient to have to open the diffs, undo the edit, click the browser's "Back" button, and repeat, even if it has some tags that give away the contents. I would like to recieve rollback rights sometime in the future, preferably in a few months or so, when I have showed you that a considerable degree of experience has been shown. Thanks!

- by Kevin12cd... Tell me how I'm doing on my Talkpage! 00:58, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi Kevin. Well, you're right - I'm afraid you're nowhere near ready to be given the rollback tool. However, there is an easier alternative you could use in the interim - Twinkle. I hesitate to recommend it, since it's a very powerful tool for a comparatively new editor, but if you're extremely cautious, it could be a good next step in your wiki-career.
I would strongly suggest that you finish (and pass, of course!) the vandal-fighting section of your adoption page before setting off with Twinkle; I've seen a number of users blocked for incorrect or excessive Twinkle use in the past and don't want to see you make their mistakes. If you're interested in learning to use the tool, I will try and put together a Twinkle "how to" guide for you, to help you get to grips with it - there are a lot of additional tools in the Twinkle bundle, and they aren't all entirely intuitive. Let me know if you'd like to give it a go. Yunshui 雲‍水 08:01, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
Hi Yunshui,

I think Twinkle might be a good start for my vandal-fighting career. I'd like to give it a shot, but not before, as you recommended, completed the Vandalism section of my Adoption page. Thanks for the feedback!

- by Kevin12cd... Tell me how I'm doing on my Talkpage! 23:37, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Here's User:Yunshui/Twinkle for beginners, to give you an idea of what tools are available in Twinkle. I've also marked a few more of your responses at User:Yunshui/Adoption/Kevin12xd/Vandals for you. Yunshui 雲‍水 08:53, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Another new user making bad edits.

Hi there,

Since I'm not sure where to report these things, here is a link to another user that I found committing minor vandalism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jamesboxton

Here is a link to the edits:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Jamesboxton

Have a good one : )

InternetMeme (talk) 11:12, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

He seems to have given up and gone away now, which is good. For future reference, the best course of action when you find something like this is to revert and then either warn the user (depending on the severity of the vandalism and how frequent it's been) or report them to Administrators' intervention against vandalism (shortcut WP:AIV). If you're using Twinkle, you can report them with the AVR function. Cheers for letting me know. Yunshui 雲‍水 08:23, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Page deletion

why did you deleted my page? since its not violating anyone and it the information i wrote was trustworthy. do u know anything about the other nations history? for u to judge so fast? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.55.0.153 (talk) 14:53, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm afraid that, since you're logged out, I don't know who you are or which article you're referring to. If you'd like to provide some more information, I'll endeavour to give you an answer. Yunshui 雲‍水 15:01, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Ok, I need to put more information as you were asking. Sorry for my bashful comment, thanks for the advise. I will revise my page and will put lots of informations regarding the topic. Actually my page was still under editing and proofreading. I hope Wikipedia will have a feature where you can save your page first without publishing it so soon. Time to rewrite it again. :/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kasmotdmime (talk • contribs) 15:12, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia does have such a feature; it's called a sandbox. Yours is at User:Kasmotdmime/sandbox. You can create your article there unmolested, and bring it up to standard before moving it into mainspace. Yunshui 雲‍水 22:21, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi Yunshui. You recently deleted a page called Fasta Pasta about a restaurant chain in Australia. This restaurant is similar size to other restaurant chains, which are featured on Wikipedia, such as Hogsbreath Cafe Australia and Wendys Supa Sundaes, and so is of similar significance to these companies featured. I am hoping you can please reinstate the page. I had added a few changes to the web page last week, as I was hoping to be able to change their logo, as I saw that the logo on there was an old one. Would this please be possible, rather than recreating the page? I have posted below the information you put with the deletion for your reference. Look forward to hearing from you.

09:54, 31 October 2012 Yunshui (talk | contribs) deleted page Fasta Pasta (A7: Article about a company, corporation, organization, or group, which does not indicate the importance or significance of the subject)

Thanks Bec BecWaters (talk) 01:01, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) From what I can tell, Yunshui deleted your page because you didn't make enough of a claim to notability that was supported by sources. If he wishes to, Yunshui can userfy the page into your userspace, the most likely location would be for him to move it to User:BecWaters/sandbox or another subpage. If you can find more sources and make a larger claim to notability, then you can ask other editors to take another look at it. gwickwire | Leave a message 01:10, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
Gwickwire's correct; I deleted the page under the speedy deletion policy because it made no claim of notability and provided no independent sources. His suggestion of userfication is sensible, and so I have duly recreated the page in your sandbox. You will need to provide multiple, independent, reliable sources containing significant coverage of the chain in order to restore it to mainspace. Yunshui 雲‍水 08:03, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Userfication of Orly Ben-Garti

Recreating deleted copyright infringing material is at best very dubious, for two reasons. Firstly, quite simply, you are knowingly publishing copyright-infringing material. It would not be any defence against a charge of copyright infringement to say "aah, but, your honour, members of the public had to click a link labelled 'history' in order to see the content that I illegally published". What is more, you clearly indicated that you were aware that the content you were making publicly available infringed copyright. Secondly, it is difficult to see a legitimate future use for any content there that does not infringe copyright. If the page is moved back to mainspace then the bad goes there along with any good, so you have contributed to undeleting a deleted copyright article. If, on the other hand, the user page stays where it is, but the user copy-pastes it to mainspace then there are attribution issues. Normal practice is to delete any page which violates copyright all the way from its first version, whether in userspace, mainspace, or any other name space, and then to decline any request for the content to be restored. I really can't see any good reason for making an exception in this case. Furthermore, when you had removed the copyright infringing content, there was nothing of the article left except a list of links to IMDb, Myspace, etc, so it did not rescue any significant non-copyright-infringing content. That makes me wonder what the purpose of undeleting was. The only purpose I can see is to make available the history content, which you knew full well infringed copyright. I have thought very carefully about this, and have decided it goes beyond "hmm, I wouldn't have done it that way, but I see you have decided to", and falls rather in the sphere of "I'm afraid I really think you were wrong, and I feel I have to reverse your action". JamesBWatson (talk) 08:34, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Looking back at the incident - yes, you're right, and I was very definitely wrong. No excuses, it was a stupid thing to do. If it's any consolation, when I checked the message I'd left at User talk:Princessbg I almost slapped myself - I certainly know better than that (see a couple of the talkpage threads above, where I've emphatically refused to restore copyright violations) and I've no idea what I was thinking at the time. Thank you for sorting out my mess, and for letting me know. Yunshui 雲‍水 08:44, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Deleted page

12:33, 5 November 2012 Yunshui (talk | contribs) deleted page Logaholic (A7: Article about an eligible subject, which does not indicate the importance or significance of the subject)

Hello Yunshui,

Yesterday you deleted my contribution to the Logaholic page, but there is certainly significance for the subject. Logaholic, as included in cPanel, has millions of users worldwide. Besides, it's one of the few web analytics software programs that use Log files for data collection. I would very much appreciate if you could undo your deletion, so I can add Logaholic to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_web_analytics_software.

Regards, Cvdvelde — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cvdvelde (talk • contribs) 09:35, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

I have restored the page to your userspace at User:Cvdvelde/Logaholic; you can work on it there. I'd suggest removing the list of products, pricing and commercial links, and instead locating reliable, independent sources to give evidence of notability - whilst it may have millions of users and be a near-unique web analysis tool, if nobody who is unconnected with Logaholic has published statements to that effect, we can't have an article on it. Yunshui 雲‍水 09:46, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the confirmation...

...and the consequent validation! (And now I go back to my vandal-busting. ;) ) — further, Francophonie&Androphilie sayeth naught (Je vous invite à me parler) 11:38, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

No problem, it's nice to be able to accept a request for confirmation for a change... Yunshui 雲‍水 11:40, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 05 November 2012

A barnstar for you!

The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
Yunshui, I'm awarding you this barnstar as you gave me help and encouragement when I needed it! It seems to be the best way of showing my appreciation to someone who works tirelessly to help and advise others! SagaciousPhil - Chat 10:39, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

PS: I think I'm even starting to get the hang of editing Wiki stuff now - have a peak at Irish Red and White Setter if you get the chance! PPS: .....but I expect I've put this in the wrong place!

Thank you Phil, that's very kind. I'm impressed by your expansion of the article - so much so that I've filed a DYK nomination for it on your behalf. Yunshui 雲‍水 11:00, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

RfA vote

Thanks for pointing out my mistake, I somehow confused the names when writing my vote, but meant obviously Northamerica1000. The link is about his contributions too. I corrected it, and since it is not a part of the discussion, I took the liberty to delete it. Kraxler (talk) 14:49, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

That's fine; I'd have redacted the comments myself if you hadn't gotten there first. I was just concerned that you were implying Road Wizard was a sock, given the concerns already raised. Yunshui 雲‍水 14:50, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
The point with the "Preview button" is well taken. We all make mistakes sometimes, and the "Preview button" helps a lot to avoid them, but sometimes they slip through, nebertheless. On the other side, I've been editing Wikipedia since 2006, and never asked to be an admin. Nobody nominated me without my knowledge, either... :D
I actually didn't notice anything about socks, but now I get it what the question about "other accounts" was referring to. Hmmm... Kraxler (talk) 14:57, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/ Ānanda (Hindu philosophy)

A very good morning to you. I have been directed to you by Tito Dutta to seek a way to salvage my captioned article. I do not agree with the changes made because no subsequent opinion expressed by any later thinker can supercede what has been stated by the Vedas, the Upanishadas and the Gita. Is it possible to save my version? If so, kindly save it.Soni Ruchi (talk) 04:10, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi Soni. One of Wikipedia's main pillars is that we take a neutral point of view on the topics written about - we report what has been said in the available sources, no more. Whilst I appreciate that you may believe the Vedas, Upanishads and Bhagavad Gita to be the last word on the subject of ananda, there are many subsequent sources that also discuss it and interpret it, and these also need to be included. Your version of the article essentially appears to be your personal interpretation of the Vedas, etc. - unless you're a notable Hindu theologian who has had your opinions published elsewhere, I'm afraid that your own readings of the primary sources do not constitute encyclopedic coverage of the topic (basically, you're producing original research, which doesn't get included in Wikipedia). In the same way that we can't include a zealous Christian editor's eschatology based on their interpretation of Revelation, we can't accept your reading of the Bhagavad Gita as an explanation of ananda.
On the positive side, when Shrikanthv copied a large portion of your text over to the mainspace Ānanda (Hindu philosophy) article, he made your version at Articles for creation a permanent page - since it provides attribution for part of the history of the mainspace article, it can't be deleted as long as the mainspace article exists. My suggestion would be for you to leave the AfC page alone now, and concentrate on improving the live page at Ānanda (Hindu philosophy) - take care, though, to abide by Wikipedia's policy on verifiability; anything you add to the article should be available in a published secondary or tertiary source. Don't add your own interpretations of the Vedas. Yunshui 雲‍水 08:04, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
Hello, Yunshui,
Hope you are having a good time! When you told me to contribute in that article, I thought Soni Ruchi's article has been accepted. I am not very much happy here.. or I am puzzled. Shrikanthv offered help to Soni Ruchi here User_talk:Soni_Ruchi#help. Soni Ruchi denied. The thing which I have been trying not to say for last few days, this is a topic hijacking. Soni Ruchi has worked in that article and should get the attribution. If they have copied portion from AFC without attribution then that is copyright violation. Please share your opinion! --Tito Dutta (talk) 07:54, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
Hi Tito. As understand the situation, the sequence of events went something like this:
  • [5] Shrikanthv encounters the AfC, recognises that there are problems with it, and attempts to resolve them with a series of edits [6].
  • [7] Soni Ruchi reverts these edits to the earlier version of the page.
  • [8] Shrikanthv asks for an explanation of the reverting. When no response is forthcoming after a few hours, he forks and creates the article in mainspace, copying some text from the AfC and adding some new material [9].
  • [10] I make a few copy edits to the page and add a {{copied}} template to resolve the copyright issue (copying text within Wikipedia is permissible under the licensing terms, but attribution is required - the template provides this).
  • [11] Soni Ruchi incorporates the text of the AfC into the mainspace article, effectively resolving the copyright issue (since his text is now in the mainspace article's history).
In my opinion, both editors have made mistakes here. Shrikanthv's creation of the article in mainspace was inappropriate and he would have done better to discuss the issues with Soni Ruchi and fix the article whilst still at AfC. Soni Ruchi should have been more communicative, and also needs to understand that he does not own the article, in either location. However, since the article is now "live", and since both editors are contributing to it, the best way forward is to forget the AfC and try to address the (many!) current issues with the mainspace page. Primarily, it needs reworking in a neutral tone, and also requires more secondary and tertiary sources. Most of Soni Ruchi's additions constitute unsourced interpretation of the primary sources (see my reply to him above) and need to be sourced to notable commentators, rephrased, or discarded. No-one's coming out of this smelling of roses, but the primary goal now is to turn the page into a decent article. Yunshui 雲‍水 08:20, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for detailed reply. Just a similar event- few weeks ago I created an article Josephine MacLeod, just today I saw someone went to AFC to create the same article. Naturally it got denies as article already existed (note, I created the article much before his AFC). He then copied all portion from AFC and pasted in the mainspace article (just like what has happened here). The article is in much better condition now! Today after knowing these incidents I have given him a barnstar and offered help for his future articles. Some polite words or a smile can make many things easier.
That's the problem here. They were not very much communicative or friendly. And I feel Soni Ruchi should get the article creator's attribution here! --Tito Dutta (talk) 09:06, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
He technically does, via the {{copied}} template, but it won't show up in the Toolserver list of his created articles. No easy fix for that, unfortunately. Hopefully you and I can encourage them to move forwards collaboratively; both editors seem willing to converse and compromise to some extent, so we can hopefully help them develop a decent article out of this mess. Yunshui 雲‍水 09:13, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
Most probably Soni is "she". I have seen few editors offering help to Soni Ruchi including Shrikanthv. I was trying to avoid this discussion for some reasons (hope you can understand) and I asked her to post in your talk page for better suggestions and since you are trainer of Shrikanthv. We can inform Shrikanthv about current circumstances! He can do a brilliant act here by asking to delete the article (article creator's request to delete) and allow Soni Ruchi to re-create it. Not sure if it is possible or if he will do so! --Tito Dutta (talk) 09:31, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
Unfortunately the edits to the article by myself, Soni and other users mean that deletion under G7 would not be permitted - it only applies when the page creator requests deletion and no other significant edits have been made. My apologies to Soni if I got her gender wrong - always an easy mistake to make on Wikipedia! Yunshui 雲‍水 09:35, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
I am also not sure. Actually the (Indian) name indicates so. My suggestion to Soni Ruchi will be– forget this article, there are thousands of more topics to work. Yunshui, you can adopt Soni Ruchi too if you have any empty slot! Soni Ruchi is facing trouble to add citations. --Tito Dutta (talk) 09:52, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
I strictly do not want to take authorship or plagarise someothers content, when i found copy pasting was fork i immediatley removed the previous content and moved it to talk page for discussion , Please have a look here , i do understand i should have discussed this in AFC before. Regarding the topic in itself, here comes the new article (resembling the same), I am trying to communicate and trying to let Ms soni ruchi know that the idea of talk page and discussion , which has not been fruit full till now. however i still believe the Ms soni ruchi is a honest contributor. but may have to undergo wkification little bit. (danger of POV eludes ) Shrikanthv (talk) 07:14, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
Facepalm Oh boy. This is not going at all well.
I'm going to delete the Ananda (Vedanta) page as a clear violation of WP:POVFORK. I have no prejudice against including some of the information here in the Ānanda (Hindu philosophy) page (and it's all replicated on the talkpage there, and in the page history, so it's easily accessible for editing and reuse), but we cannot have a separate article on the same subject that clearly exists to push a non-neutral POV. Soni, I'm sorry, but Wikipedia cannot present an article that only discusses the concept from a (your) Vedic perspective - we need one article that discusses all aspects and interpretations (or at least, all aspects and interpretations that have been covered in reliable secondary and tertiary sources).
Shrikanthv, I sincerely hope you can see why creating articles based on other people's AfCs is a bad idea now... Yunshui 雲‍水 08:37, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
Things are getting more and more complicated! I can not understand what is going wrong here! REALLY, if you put Yunshui and me in such situation most probably we'll settle everything in just 1 or 2 talk(s) like "Oh, you have created this article, actually I thought to create this one, anyway, I have some content in my sandbox, please see if you can incorporate something there. Ad in my next article you have to definitely help me! "
Do not take it very seriously. Before you say you are feeling disappointed because your article has been deleted (I think you may feel so), let me tell you, few months ago I created an article "Bhooter Bhobishyat", later someone found someone else has created the same article with alternative spelling few days ago and he redirected my article (deleting everything) to that article. I have some 270 articles, but my 3 or 4 articles have been deleted or merged. --Tito Dutta (talk) 09:21, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Your message on my TP

Hi Yunshui,

Thanks for letting me know about my incorrect CSD tagging. After some consideration, I have decided that I will disable Twinkle for now since it is very tempting to "Random Page" around looking to speedy delete things. On a related note, I will spend some time adding citations to General Walker Hotel. Thank you for your time. Have a great day!

by Kevin12cd Talk to me This was posted at 00:32, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

That's a very sensible and level-headed decision, for which I commend you. It's easy enough to turn back on if you want to use it in the future. I look forward to seeing what you can do with the hotel - don't forget to look for sources under "Hotel Platterhof" as well.
On another note (and I'm truly sorry to have to keep throwing wiki-rules at you), please could you remove the File:Wiki.png from your signature - the guidelines specifically prohibit using images in signatures. Cheers, Yunshui 雲‍水 08:26, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

A quick question about afd

Hi! I was wondering say if there was an afd like this one[12] which met the criteria for a speedy delete, is it appropriate to nominate it through speedy delete rather than let the afd sit there for days until someone closes it? Or just leave it there and wait for general consensus? Thank you! Dengero (talk) 14:28, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

As long as you leave the AFD template in place (so that the deleting admin can easily see that there's an AFD to close as well) there's no reason not to add a CSD tag to such an article; I've done it many a time. If it's a genuine candidate under the (fairly restrictive) criteria for speedy deletion, it should be tagged as such, regardless of any PROD or AFD templates in place at the time. It's also a good idea to suggest speedy deletion at the AFD discussion as well (as you did). Yunshui 雲‍水 14:32, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Login problem

Hi Yun. A friend of mine (User:CHCS06) has been trying to login but has forgotten his password and when he tries 'forgotten login details' he gets the message that he can't do that because the IP is blocked ("to prevent abuse" the page says). Any suggestions? Your friendly Wikipedia prefect :) - (I can haz Cheezburger?) 14:37, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

The easiest (if not the quickest) solution is for him to try logging on from his home computer this evening, and retrieve his password then. Because the school's IPs (most of them, at any rate) are blocked, he'll have trouble trying to get his password back from school (although if he remembers/retrieves it, he should have no problem logging on as a registered user). I'll have a poke about and see if I can find a good alternative, but I don't currently know of one, short of unblocking all the school IPs temporarily (which wouldn't go down at all well...). Yunshui 雲‍水 14:43, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Voltage_controller

Hi Mr Yunshui, I have created this page Voltage_controller please have a look and give me a review on things to improve or being corrected and how to make it a GA if possible. I take your suggestion never going to see things in AFC was really bad idea, and beleive science is less complicated than philosophy to right article!! Shrikanthv (talk) 09:36, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

That's fabulous! I've very impressed at first glance; the subject is clearly notable, there's a nice range of references to good sources, the text is coherent (if a little over my head, electronics is not a field I know much about) and it looks nice, expecially since you've included some images. My immediate ideas for expansion would be: more information regarding practical applications (as a lay reader, I want to know why converting a fixed AC supply to a variable voltage is useful); something of the device's history (who invented it, how was it developed?); change the format of the Applications section from a headed list to a bulleted list; add some categories; and stick a {{WikiProject Electronics}} template on the talkpage, to attract that project's attention and get some more editors involved. I wouldn't head for a GA just yet - the article needs quite a bit of work to get to that stage - but it's not an inconceivable goal. In the interim, see if you can work the article up sufficiently for a Did you know? hook. You've done a really great job with this, well done. Yunshui 雲‍水 09:53, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

DYK ? can you guide me through this ? Mr Yunshui ? Shrikanthv (talk) 15:07, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

It's fairly complex, I'm afraid, and I'm going offline in a few moments - start by having a read of the eligibility criteria, and work on the article so that it meets them. I'll take a look tomorrow and put together a nomination if it's appropriate. Once more, very good work! Yunshui 雲‍水 15:13, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
Mr Yushui, Have made last minute revision and checks please have a look at it know, I thank you for all the support and guidance and i see that i am fine at creating article than destroying them Shrikanthv (talk) 07:38, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
I've done a bit of copyediting on the article, and put a nomination forth at Template:Did you know nominations/Voltage controller. The hook isn't ideal - if you can think of a more catchy fact then please feel free to suggest an alternative. Yunshui 雲‍水 08:53, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

In My City

Thanks for the full-protection Yunshui. I was just in the process of raising an ANI myself, glad I checked my watchlist before pressing save. :) Yes I do agree things were not going as expected, but I did not realize that 3RR had been crossed so I apologize for that. I thought that better explaining it on the user's talk page would see the desired effect but I guess it did not. Oh well, part of life. Thanks again. :) —Indian:BIO · [ ChitChat ] 12:21, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

A question

Regarding the IP I reported at ANI for harassing/threatening Mr.choppers, how do I go about creating an SPI when I don't know who any of the other socks might be? AutomaticStrikeout 22:33, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

With difficulty... I'm not sure it's even possible. I'd suggest asking a seasoned SPI admin like Dennis Brown (he's my usual go-to guru for SPI and checkuser issues) or Elen of the Roads. You could also ask Mr.choppers himself if he has any ideas, and, more importantly, diffs. Yunshui 雲‍水 22:39, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
Alright, I have taken it to Dennis. Thanks for your input. AutomaticStrikeout 22:55, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
Sorry not to have been more help. Yunshui 雲‍水 23:35, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
That's ok. You did take care of the IP. AutomaticStrikeout 23:56, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

This is not a newsletter

This is just a tribute.

Anyway. You're getting this note because you've participated in discussion and/or asked for updates to either the Article Feedback Tool or Page Curation. This isn't about either of those things, I'm afraid ;p. We've recently started working on yet another project: Echo, a notifications system to augment the watchlist. There's not much information at the moment, because we're still working out the scope and the concepts, but if you're interested in further updates you can sign up here.

In addition, we'll be holding an office hours session at 21:00 UTC on Wednesday, 14 November in #wikimedia-office - hope to see you all there :). I appreciate it's an annoying time for non-Europeans: if you're interested in chatting about the project but can't make it, give me a shout and I can set up another session if there's enough interest in one particular timezone or a skype call if there isn't. Thanks! Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 11:31, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Francophonie&Androphilie (talk · contribs · logs)

You have granted Francophonie&Androphilie (talk · contribs · logs) confirmed right on 6 November 2012. Now that he became autoconfirmed, this right is redundant. Could you remove it? Regards, Armbrust The Homonculus 17:54, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi Armbrust. I've had a good look through the relevent policies, but I can't see anything to suggest that we habitually revoke the Confirmed right after a user reaches autoconfirmed status (although as you point out, it's effectively redundant). F&A seems quite proud of being confirmed, and since I'm not aware (at present) of any policy to the contrary, I'm inclined to leave it in place just to keep him happy. However, if you know of a policy, guideline or consensus that suggests confirmed rights should be removed after autoconfirmation, please point me at it and I'll happily oblige. Cheers, Yunshui 雲‍水 09:05, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
Nevermind, already done by Gfoley4 (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA). Armbrust The Homonculus 13:46, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

any task

hi brother, ant task for me? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hassam-ud-din (talk • contribs) 20:06, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Page deletion by you.

A page added about Accord Institute for Education by another employee seems like deleted by you. Not knowing how to restore it, as the IT coordinator of the company, I attempt to recreate a new one. Now, I got this message saying that I need to contact you. I would like to follow right steps in doing this. We are no longer interested in the content of the previous submission. Please disregard it and review my current content if it violates anything or need revisions. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Akif5353 (talk • contribs) 21:50, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Since the previous submission was a copyright violation, it's nice to hear that you're planning on redoing the text. However, please note that you are editing under a conflict of interest, which is strongly discouraged, and you should read both the conflict of interest guidelines and the FAQ for companies and organisations very closely before proceeding. Yunshui 雲‍水 22:36, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your timely response. I'm aware of my conflict of interest. Please note that I'm disclosing it clearly. I will do minimum posting with materials that are not questionable, not biased and factful with references.Please let me know how to recover my recent posting and proceed. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Akif5353 (talk • contribs) 19:03, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 12 November 2012

Deletion of Kewal Dheer page, an eminent Indian author

Hi Yunshui

I added a page of Indian Literary personality Mr. Kewal Dheer, the material was provided by him self. That was also added on his website too. but after my addition on wikipedia it was deleted by referencing the same website of his own. kindly allow it, as it was not a case of copy of material.

Best regards


Fahad Hameed — Preceding unsigned comment added by Masriffa (talk • contribs) 06:35, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

If the material was copied from Mr Dheer's website, you will need to ask him to follow the instructions at this page in order to donate it. However, the text as it stand is unsuitable anyway - a huge list of publications with a short and unverified biography is not an appropriate Wikipedia article, and if you recreated it in the same form it would likely be deleted as unsourced and excessively promotional. Yunshui 雲‍水 13:36, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Irish Red and White Setter

 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:13, 15 November 2012 (UTC) 08:22, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

雲‍水

Hi Yunshui. 120% is causing some weird spacing between your last line perhaps, can you reduce it if possible? Cheers. TheSpecialUser TSU 13:50, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Random text to fill space on previous line.
How's this? Yunshui 雲‍水 13:53, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
Perfect! TheSpecialUser TSU 13:56, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
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