User talk:Yuchitown/Archive 2

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Cheroenhaka (Nottoway) Indian Tribe

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Nottoway people

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I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, Yuchitown

Thank you for creating Carrizo Comecrudo Nation of Texas.

User:Herpetogenesis, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Good work, this is quite interesting!

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HᴇʀᴘᴇᴛᴏGᴇɴᴇꜱɪꜱ (talk) 08:54, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, Yuchitown

Thank you for creating Nottoway Indian Tribe of Virginia.

User:North8000, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Good start! This need GNG sources added to put it on firmer ground. Happy editing! North8000 (talk) 13:16, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

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A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	For your work on Dahti Tsetso. Bearian (talk) 19:01, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

I came here to also say thanks for your work to improve this article. CT55555 (talk) 01:23, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Thank you both and thank you both for all the work you are doing! Yuchitown (talk) 02:03, 6 June 2022 (UTC)Yuchitown

Kenimer Site

I just reverted Richard Thornton or a fan of his there deleting criticism, suggesting a lawsuit and adding unsourced material about how wonderful Thornton is. Doug Weller talk 20:57, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

I tried to add concrete info. If I got anything incorrect, feel free to change. Yuchitown (talk) 03:26, 7 June 2022 (UTC)Yuchitown

@Yuchitown thanks. I’m not sure he’s noticed, too busy fulminating at me. Doug Weller talk 17:18, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, Yuchitown

Thank you for creating Patawomeck Indian Tribe of Virginia.

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✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 07:30, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Indigenous

Well that’s embarrassing. I did do a search on various sources and for instance Indigenous rights but didn’t know about the AP style guide. Doug Weller talk 18:50, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

No worries! I hate AP style, but figure they would be the least suspectible to change. Chicago caps, too (when referring to humans, not plants, etc.). I can't pinpoint when the change started happened, but it's very widespread now. Yuchitown (talk) 20:55, 23 June 2022 (UTC)Yuchitown

So do we now use Black for people? I see that being changed. And White, I'm not sure about that either. Doug Weller talk 12:10, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

@Doug Weller: In general, in current style guides and in the community at large, Black is capitalized when referring to the group as an ethnic identity, as a synonym for African-American. White is not the same kind of ethnic identity; while not totally consistent, the people most likely to capitalize "white" in general usage are white supremacists. But, yes, agreeing with Yuchi here about Indigenous caps when it's the ethnicity. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 20:34, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

I capitalize Black when discussing people (usually transnational people) in IRL and on Wiki, but the Indigenous capitalization conversation came up at Pre-Columbian era and seems to be on that occasionally pops up in various categories and articles. European American is capitalized and an increasingly used term. Yuchitown (talk) 22:07, 24 June 2022 (UTC)Yuchitown

I changed Indigenous rights so it uses upper case, also some other stuff, see my contributions. Category:North America indigenous peoples templates needs what, a move request? I don't seem able to edit the name. Doug Weller talk 08:36, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Oneida Nation

Thanks for your work on Indigenous subjects on Wikipedia. I noticed that the List of federally recognized tribes in the United States and the List of federally recognized tribes by state under Wisconsin link to Oneida Nation, which is a redirect page to Oneida people, which is an article for the ethnic group rather than any specific federally recognized tribe. The Wikipedia article for the federally recognized Oneida Nation is Oneida Nation of Wisconsin. I attempted to fix the link but you reverted my edit citing the federal register. I recognize that the federal register uses the name "Oneida Nation" and I left the text in the list as it was, changing only the link destination. I'll let you decide what to do, but wouldn't it be more useful for the list of federally recognized tribes to link to the Wikipedia article for the federally recognized tribe, however Wikipedia happens to title that article, rather than to a page that redirects elsewhere? Jua Cha (talk) 13:51, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

Listings on List of federally recognized tribes in the United States and the List of federally recognized tribes by state should follow the official names on the most recent Federal Register's lists of Indian Entities. The by-state list tends to not be updated as often (so I updated it). The redirects just need to be fixed (which I did). I added a hatnote at the top of Oneida Nation of Wisconsin to link to related articles. Yuchitown (talk) 15:24, 17 July 2022 (UTC)Yuchitown

That all makes sense, thanks for resolving this. Jua Cha (talk) 23:04, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Ljpernic (talk) 23:02, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

RFC on Modern Taino Identity

I'd appreciate your input on this topic to resolve some long disputed issues about modern Taino movements. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Taíno#Request_for_Comment_on_Modern_Taino_Identity Poketama (talk) 22:58, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Betsy Love Allen

If you have time or the inclination, would you be willing to look this one over? I get that there are a lot of notes, but I felt like explanations were needed (for those of us who want historical context) and would be distracting in the article text to the average reader. The ins and outs of the family and the errors in records, which scholars have identified, also made it seem necessary to try to make the situation easier to understand. If you aren't interested, no worries. SusunW (talk) 19:27, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

Lumbee Tribe / Women in Red

I've finished adding what's useful from Lowery's book, which covers the origin of the tribal organization well and the most important aspects of its constitution. Since the tribal organization is relatively new, this is basically where the usefulness of my usual collection of sources on the Lumbees ends. Aside from the recognition disputes, there's not too much devoted media to discussing aspects of the tribe or its government; that will have to be pieced together from snippets of local media, I presume. Either way, I think we have a decent foundation for the article. -Indy beetle (talk) 00:57, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

That's awesome. Thanks for initiating this, since the article for the specific tribe is overdue. Members of the Lumbee Tribe can add notable members, etc. to flesh it out over time. Yuchitown (talk) 14:24, 25 August 2022 (UTC)Yuchitown

Thanks for your advice and help. I feel much better about the state of Lumbee Wikipedia content now. I don't do much other American indigenous people work outside of this area, so I probably won't be seeing you around, but best of luck to what you work on! -Indy beetle (talk) 17:33, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

I'll still move the government information to the LTNC page, but thanks. This is definitely a much-needed improvement! Yuchitown (talk) 18:25, 25 August 2022 (UTC)Yuchitown

Indy beetle, You did a fantastic job with the article. I know I thanked you already but I'll just say it, thank you. I've followed the article for some time now. It is very much an improvement from where it was. Also, thank you, @Yuchitown. You keep focused on so many different articles at once and I know that's difficult but you are so appreciated. I saw your request for additional assistance on List of Alaska Native tribal entities. I do plan on getting back on that list and researching/creating articles to turn some links blue. Everything will start slowing down here soon as winter approaches. --ARoseWolf 19:04, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Whenever you see me on here a lot, you know I shouldn't be here and am procrastinating on real life work! Since someone the Women in Red seemed unenthusiastic about future Indigenous subjects, I thought maybe the North American Wikiproject might be interested in doing a Wiki-a-thon to fill the void, but enthusiasm seemed low. Maybe someone like the Anchorage Museum might want to sponsor one someday? I've never sponsored one but a friend did. Seems like there TONS of individual bio articles, but not enough for various groups (tribes, Alaska villages, NGOs, etc.). Maybe for November Native American month, the North American Indigenous Wikiproject could issue an Alaska Native challenge instead of a Wiki-a-thon? Yuchitown (talk) 19:16, 25 August 2022 (UTC)Yuchitown

You know how I feel about it. The more eyes, hands and thoughts involved the more likely we'll see improvements made. I would just be ecstatic that additional coverage was being given to these often underrepresented groups. --ARoseWolf 19:28, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

I haven't given up on the annual initiative. It may be that a proposal to focus on less politically charged Alaskan Natives would be just the ticket. Also occurs to me, after having written Betsy Love and working on Sophia Durant, how poor our 18th century coverage is. So, expanding our crowd source lists to avoid the 20th century problems might also help. SusunW (talk) 15:27, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

There's a proposal on the previous thread for a way forward, if you want to weigh in. SusunW (talk) 17:54, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm not finding the proposal (or what subject it addresses—the link goes to conversation about personal issues). Re: the Lumbee Tribe of North Carolina, that was written and it seems just fine. Yuchitown (talk) 17:59, 28 August 2022 (UTC)Yuchitown

Sorry, Yuchitown, wrong link, [1] at the bottom of the vetting discussion WomenArtistUpdates has proposed that the indigenous project run the August editathon with assistance from WiR. SusunW (talk) 18:18, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

I brought up the idea of a Wiki-a-thon at WPINPA and got crickets (except from ARoseWolf, who is willing to help). A simpler method might just for the WiR to alert WPINPA to proposed lists of bios (a message on the talk page). I randomly stumble upon the WiR lists and have made comments (and thank you for taking those comments seriously!). Yuchitown (talk) 18:53, 28 August 2022 (UTC)Yuchitown

List of Alaska Native tribal entities

Yuchitown, I'm starting to pull together sources for some of the entities on the list. I'm finding in most cases there simply isn't much more than government records or the entities community websites or social media accounts which document their history and current status. I'm not sure how fruitful this will be but I'm determined to pattern some new articles after the few best examples we have and get them published. We need more recognition for these tribal communities. --ARoseWolf 15:47, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks! I should be doing RL work but will got on this (at least by next month). Glad you are looking into this! Yuchitown (talk) 16:01, 29 August 2022 (UTC)Yuchitown

Sophia Durant

Very complicated unraveling, which required comparing a whole lot of sources, but I am hopeful that I got her story right. My major questions concern whether I styled the discussions of Creeks, Muscogees, Koasatis in a respectful manner for current understanding. It is hard, because obviously historical sourcing uses mostly Creeks only. I tried to use Muscogee unless I was speaking of the Confederacy or a specific group of people. Anyway, if you have the time, or inclination, could you give this a look? Thank you. SusunW (talk) 19:44, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Sure thing! The Muscogee Nation is actively removing the term Creek, but then how does affect historic terms like Creek War? I saw the book cited used the term métis (lowercase) for mixed-race, but that just confuses the public about Métis identity and the discussion isn't in French, so mixed-race or biracial is better. Happy editing! Yuchitown (talk) 21:53, 29 August 2022 (UTC)Yuchitown

Exactly, it's hard to keep up and difficult to know what to do with historic references. When I was in university the terms Creek and Muscogee were interchangeable, but not really now. Then, Métis specifically referred to French-indigenous bi-racial people whereas Mestizo referred to Euro-indigenous bi-racial people and then there are the tri-racials (don't get me started on that road. I became aware of "race" in the 2nd grade during a desegregation census when kids whose heritage was Euro-Native-Black were forced to stand in the middle of the room until they could "decide" how to count them. It was a traumatizing experience for everyone involved.) I appreciate your input very much. SusunW (talk) 22:05, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Mestizo implies Latin American (Spanish or Portuguese), so I don't use it for other groups. And, of course, "race" is a problematic term, too, but non-Native don't feel comfortable with the term "mixed-blood." Jeez—why do people do that to children?! Am glad the census finally began allowing people to check multiple groups. Thanks for all your original writing and new articles! Yuchitown (talk) 22:09, 29 August 2022 (UTC)Yuchitown

Thanks for your insights. I genuinely appreciate your help. I think I am going to tackle Sehoy I. She is notable for establishing the dynasty that produced so many Muscogee leaders. If I can do it, it will be a good anchor article to list other notable Muscogee people in. I added both Sehoy Marchand and Sehoy Weatherford to WiR's lists and if no one does them, I will eventually. SusunW (talk) 13:59, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Okay, Sehoy was pretty easy since all of the sourcing was pretty fresh in my mind. Apparently there had previously been an article on her which was deleted. Don't think we have to worry about that now. Please feel free to make any corrections or additions you think are needed. SusunW (talk) 21:27, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

I had started research on Elizabeth Grierson prior to the end of the month, but just finished her. If you are interested, please feel free to change, correct, etc. I have written to Claudio Saunt to see if he has any additional information. We'll see if he responds. SusunW (talk) 18:09, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

You are prolific! I'm actually backing doing my real life work, but yes, of course, I can go over these articles in a bit. Happy writing! Yuchitown (talk) 22:39, 5 September 2022 (UTC)Yuchitown

Hi, I tweaked things a little bit to hopefully make it flow more easily and added an infobox. Hope that helps! Yuchitown (talk) 03:17, 6 September 2022 (UTC)Yuchitown

I truly appreciate it. Many of these are complex to unravel and I am not always sure that I made the story coherent to someone who hasn't read all the research, so I really am happy that you are willing to look them over and make corrections, add links, info boxes, etc. It's funny that I ended up doing Grierson, because I wanted to look at Eliza McIntosh, but just couldn't ignore the mistaken identification with Grierson. It became pretty clear that they weren't the same person as a 10 year old couldn't have been Chilly's mother (he was born in 1800), Grierson didn't live where McIntosh lived, didn't migrate when McIntosh did, and her death in 1847, clearly occurred before McIntosh's death which is usually given as 1850-1860. Anyway, it's been fun working on them with you. I have also been able to add several 18th- and 19th-century women to our lists who don't have questionable tribal affiliations. I do thank you so much. SusunW (talk) 05:12, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Sure thing! Being able to share your research makes reading histories so much more enjoyable and rewarding :) Yuchitown (talk) 14:25, 6 September 2022 (UTC)Yuchitown

Ani-Stohini/Unami

Your edits on this article conflict with the sources identified on the page. Namely linking the Unami in the group name to the Unami people. There is no source that supports that statement. Given the claimed territory of this group may overlap or border locations of Yuchi towns. This article should be placed on NPOVD list WP:NPOVD or marked for deletion. Federer20201 (talk) 22:32, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Take it to Talk:Ani-Stohini/Unami. Yuchitown (talk) 22:35, 1 September 2022 (UTC)Yuchitown

Notice of Conflict of interest noticeboard discussion

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard regarding a possible conflict of interest incident with which you may be involved. Thank you. Federer20201 (talk) 21:57, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Tutelo

Copied without attribution from Honniasont. Doug Weller talk 18:08, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Worse still. That statement was about the Honniasont not the Tutelo as it is presented. I'd say remove it from the article. --ARoseWolf 18:19, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

You two are much more familiar with the subject. Would you care to delete the inappropriate material from that article? Yuchitown (talk) 19:11, 8 September 2022 (UTC)Yuchitown

Doug Weller and Yuchitown, I reviewed the book and it does not say anything to this affect. In fact, it only mentions the Tutelo once and does not mention the Honniasont at all. I find no reference in that book to any of the names mentioned. In reference to the Tutelo, on page 314 it states "A familar example of this (meaning the sound of spoken words) occurs in the name of the Siouan tribe of early Carolina and Virginia which was known to the Algonquins as Tutelo, and to the Senecas as Totero." It was talking about the various letters used and sounds made in the two languages. That is the only reference to the Tutelo in the entire book. --ARoseWolf 19:48, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

That's great you have the book being cited. Could you edit Tutelo? Yuchitown (talk) 19:59, 8 September 2022 (UTC)Yuchitown

 Done Done. I edited both articles. I did leave the citation needed template beside one portion of the Tutelo article that was attributed to the book but removed the citation. It had to do with the various names. Accurate edit summaries were given to explain why the removals were necessary. --ARoseWolf 20:06, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you so much! Yuchitown (talk) 20:47, 8 September 2022 (UTC)Yuchitown

@ARoseWolf, I saw the citation removals on those two pages, however I think you may be looking in the wrong volume of the book.

It's in Volume 2, not Volume 1 of the book - look at pages 117-119 of Volume 2.[2] and [3] . Netherzone (talk) 18:48, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Netherzone, you are correct that volume two does touch on the subject but it still does not support what was written in the article. --ARoseWolf 18:57, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi Rose, you know I respect and appreciate your research skills, but if you read the entirety of pages 117, 118 and 119 in Volume 2, I think you will find that it does in fact support what was written.

The articles are not a big deal to me, I just don't like seeing references removed when they might be useful. The inaccuracy lies is in the incomplete referencing that failed to mention it's in Volume 2 of a multiple volume book. Netherzone (talk) 19:20, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Netherzone, I reread the volume and you are correct, I re-added fixing the link and also changing what was presented as a certainty to what Hanna really presented as a likely possibility. Good catch, thank you. --ARoseWolf 19:27, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

@ARoseWolf, may I restore what was removed from the Honniasont article? Netherzone (talk) 19:29, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

I'm trying to reconcile that. Mooney and Hale state they were in Virginia at the head of the Roanoke River yet Hanna mentions in his book, the upper Ohio River which does, in fact place them north of Louisville. My issue is this puts them closer to the Seneca, not further away. I'm okay with restoring but I'm going to research this further. The two don't seem to add up as that's hundreds of miles away from each other. I'll defer to his judgement from the book for now. --ARoseWolf 19:37, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

I'm sorry, that wasn't a direct answer. By all means, restore it. --ARoseWolf 19:43, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Ha! our edits were overlapping for a moment! I'm guessing that some of the geographic ambiguity might have to do with inaccurate maps from the 17th century? Netherzone (talk) 20:04, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

I apologize for that. I saw it and moved over to Tutelo to fix the copyright issue. Doug Weller, I think its fixed but I don't know if I did it right. --ARoseWolf 20:10, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

No worries, always a pleasure when our paths cross. Netherzone (talk) 20:12, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

That made my day. Thank you and the feeling is mutual. --ARoseWolf 20:13, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Glad it's sorted. Doug Weller talk 16:20, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Commons:Category:North Carolina Algonquin

Hello Yuchitown, looking at your userpage, I take it you are familiar with the Chowanoke. Hence my question if you could take look at the datalink I made. Thank you for your time. Lotje (talk) 15:30, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi Lotje, I'm not familiar with Wiki datalinks. Everything looks fine to me. Yuchitown (talk) 16:38, 12 September 2022 (UTC)Yuchitown

Why did you remove the quote I added

from the Macleans citation? Doug Weller talk 17:53, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Oops, I see why. Doug Weller talk 17:55, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Right on! Thanks for your work on that article. Finding that Middle Path! Yuchitown (talk) 20:07, 13 September 2022 (UTC)Yuchitown

Pretendians

I primarily restored it as the anon removed the source. Then got a message their talk page which I replied to: User talk:24.1.133.225. I paraphrased this edit summary. I'm always uncomfortable dealing with things I have little understanding of... Cheers Adakiko (talk) 22:01, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

I think you went above and beyond by reaching out to them on their talk page. My understanding is that isn't necessary. There have been a couple of deletions of that section, probably because folks don't like criticism of the individual in question. You can also refer to wp:Wikipedia is not censored. Enjoy your weekend! Yuchitown (talk) 22:31, 17 September 2022 (UTC)Yuchitown

I suspect "don't like it". Thought leaving a comment on their talk page might head off future issues. Thanks for all your work! I'm retired and don't have "weekends" Have a good weekend too! Adakiko (talk) 23:04, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Alas, live in hope, die in despair? /s Cheers Adakiko (talk) 05:18, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:American people of Kiowa descent

A tag has been placed on Category:American people of Kiowa descent indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:19, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

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