User talk:Sokuya/Archive 1

Archive 1

Welcome!

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October 2014

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• Navy]], built by [[Israel Shipyards|Israel Shipyards Ltd.]] and commissioned in May 2003.<ref>[http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/israel/hetz-list.htm Hetz/Nirit Sa'ar 4.5 Unit List -

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Article titling

Hi, I moved your page INS Kidon (1997) to INS Kidon. Per Wikipedia's article titling guidelines, there is no need for a year disambiguation attached to the article, since there is no other "INS Kidon". The recent redirects you created might help, but year disambig prefixes are generally not needed. Hope that makes sense. If there are any questions, reply on my talk. — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 17:59, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Israeli ship articles

Welcome to Wikipedia. I am sure the items and changes you are making are in good faith, however all information on wikipedia must be sourced. The changes I made to the articles was to make the information on them match the reliable sources. Unless you have a source to reference that shows your information is correct it must match the source. Right now you are putting information in that has a source cited but it disagrees with the source. - Galatz (talk) 14:31, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Galatz, If you are talking about INS Kidon and INS Trashish commission year - My source is a book of the 3rd flotilla wiring by the Ministry of Defense. I think it is more accurate then GlobalSecurity.org reference. How are we settle this? Sokuya (talk) 19:10, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Galatz, Sorry I just realize the message is from 2014 Sokuya (talk) 19:57, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

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Ophir Awards

I just came across a page and template which you created, the List of Ophir Awards ceremonies and Template:Ophir Awards. It appears you created these pages almost as a shell for more information to be added later. The template especially serves no purpose without linking to nothing but red links. Are you planning on actually creating these pages? I see they are 4 months old with nothing created yet. Checking with you before I nominate it for deletion. Thanks - Galatz^Talk 20:57, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

• Galatz You are right about the template, its a shell. However the page List of Ophir Awards ceremonies have data that no other English wikipedia page has. We need to continue translate the page from he:פרס אופיר, I also upload a rating table of the ceremonies to OTRS system. The page need to be update. Sokuya (talk) 21:16, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I was only planning on nominating the template. Thanks! - Galatz^Talk 21:18, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

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Nomination of Itay Zalait for deletion

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Case 1000-4000 redirects

Hi, can you explain what was the reasoning behind tweaking the redirects for Case 1000? Did you want to have them show up in New Pages Feed? AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 15:02, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

• AngusWOOF did that so the Hebrew articles would linked to the paragraphs. w:he:תיק 1000⟶Case 1000, w:he:תיק 2000⟶Case 2000, w:he:פרשת הצוללות (w:he:תיק 3000)⟶Case 3000, w:he:פרשת בזק-אלוביץ' (w:he:תיק 4000)⟶Case 4000. In Hebrew Wikipedia you have 4 separate article and in English wikipedia you have only 1 article. That's why the tweaking the redirects, so you can go from Hebrew to English.

Okay, thanks. It looks like they've gone through on the New Pages Feed part. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 16:51, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Polling table

Yesterday, I've spent a good hour and a half to clear the table from 50Kb of repetitive comment lines, and then add the two total numbers, some of which are already reported in the incomplete section 2. Since you didn't bring a point other than the look, I'm ready to listen up to aesthetical complaints. For instance, do you prefer the table in my sandbox, where I split the last column in two? Kahlores (talk) 19:27, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

The table in your sandbox is much better than the last one. I'm sorry for your time, but the whole "Government vs Opposition" is describe at Coalition/Opposition section. Your new column is just duplicate of that (but with more data). The Parties table should remain clean and simple, we also should keep in mind that new parties may run for parliament and to be mentioned in the polls (Yalon party for intense) so we should keep room for them. This column is unnecessary and way excessive. Sokuya (talk) 19:38, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for your feedback.

As a principle, we should avoid redundancy. The second subsection is both a pain to update (which is why it is not updated since november), and a pain to read, since one who looks at the party polls must memorize the date and pollster to find the sums - which takes him as much time as calculating them by himself.

We can obey this good principle with a bit of creativity. For instance, font size and line height can be reduced to allow for more space. Take the page on Dutch opinion polls, which has 15 party columns and an "other" column. In the worst case, where 3 or 4 parties appear, the table could still be broken up.

I have edited the sandbox again. Now we have space for Yalon. Kahlores (talk) 20:27, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

We don't need Yalon's column yet. He doesn't appears in the polls, yet. I think the new columns of Government and Opposition counts is excessive to the table. The table is regarding only parties seats. In the Coalition/Opposition section there is an explanation of which party is included in the coalition and which in the opposition. When adding Government/Opposition counts column to the Parties table, the reader misses this information. These tables are separated for a reason. We should keep updated the tables separately, even if it pain to update them. Because in the end of it, it much easier to read when the table are separated by issue. As a person who's updating the article I promise to update the from now on the Coalition/Opposition section, which I did not do perviously. I think that if you want to merge those tables together you should discuss it in the talk page. Sokuya (talk) 22:08, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Election results table

Hello! I wanted to thank you for making the election results table on Otzma Yehudit. I used it as a template on the Yachad page. I was wondering, could you do the same thing for the Bayit Yehudi page? I was having trouble porting it over for some reason, I would gladly do it myself if I could. Thank you for your hard work on improving Wikipedia!! ShimonChai (talk) 18:56, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

• ShimonChai  Done. Sokuya (talk) 20:02, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Basic Law: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People

Hello Sokuya,

The Law was adopted by Knesset 62 in favor, 55 against and two abstentions on July 19, 2018.

Do you know when this new Israeli Basic Law will applied? When will be the first day that this new law will be valid?

Kind regards,

Sara — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A0A:A541:17C6:0:A017:3AF2:1BB1:3E4D (talk) 11:55, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

• It doesn't have a particular date. It will be apply as soon as it enter into the records. You can check it here or here (Hebrew). Sokuya (talk) 12:11, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

Sokuya, thank you very much for your reply and the links.

Kind regards,

Sara — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A0A:A541:17C6:0:A017:3AF2:1BB1:3E4D (talk) 13:53, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

WP:MINOR

This was not a minor edit. Kindly do not abuse that function. nableezy - 17:24, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Well but it was by definition: "only superficial differences exist between the current and previous versions. Examples include typographical corrections, formatting and presentational changes, and rearrangements of text without modification of its content". Sokuya (talk) 17:28, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Did you read past that sentence? Did you read where it says that a minor edit is one that the editor believes requires no review and could never be the subject of a dispute. Do you really believe placing the Hebrew text before the Arabic text for an Israeli-occupied Arab territory could never be the subject of a dispute? nableezy - 17:31, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

You are right, this could be a subject of a dispute. Sokuya (talk) 17:39, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for acknowledging that. Some of us hide minor edits from our watchlists, so marking a change like this as minor results in others not seeing it. So, when there could be a dispute about a change please do not mark it minor. nableezy - 17:42, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Alert

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have recently shown interest in the Arab–Israeli conflict. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect: any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or any page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

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Huldra (talk) 20:25, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

Your reverts of my edits

You have reverted my changes of mayor of Jerusalem to West Jerusalem with the edit line: "rv vandalism"/

I strongly object to my changes being vandalism, it is in fact your changes back to the old which can be called vandalism. All of the men in question, (Shlomo Zalman Shragai, Nadav Shragai Yitzhak Kariv, Gershon Agron, Mordechai Ish-Shalom) were only mayors of West Jerusalem, as they all served before the 1967 war. There were mayors of East Jerusalem serving at the same time, see Mayor of Jerusalem.

Please undo your edits, and please stop such disruptive editing, Huldra (talk) 20:24, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

Huldra I'm sorry that I called it vandalism, I saw a systematic edits with no explanation but to "correction". I didn't find any discussion that supporting this change. As Debresser already mentioned in edit the Mayor of Jerusalem is the mayor of whole Jerusalem, this is the job description. They are linked to the same article Mayor of Jerusalem, inside the article you can see the division between 1948—1967, but the title of the job was still "Mayor of Jerusalem". There was no job title "Mayor of West Jerusalem". We can mention the division of the city but we don't need to change the job title. If you search through the sources in the article you will see the usage of "mayor of Jerusalem" and not "West Jerusalem". I think this edit should reach consensus before it being implied. I revert the articles to the stable version (before your changes). Sorry for call it vandalism, but it still wrong and it simply not a correction. Sokuya (talk) 21:05, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

Teddy Kollek served as mayor both to West Jerusalem, and to the whole of Jerusalem (after 1967)...I hadn't noted that last bit...so Debresser was (at least partly) correct in reverting me. (More correct would have been to state both.)

Also, note that that the mayors of East Jerusalem, like Aref al-Aref state that he was mayor of East Jerusalem. And irregardless of what the "official" title was, it is clear that "Mayor of Jerusalem" implies being mayor of the whole of Jerusalem, and that implication is clearly wrong, for the above 5 men in question.

Compare it with Governing Mayor of Berlin: the ones that I checked all state wether it was East or West Berlin they were mayors of, Huldra (talk) 21:21, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, Huldra, for admitting your mistake. Debresser (talk) 22:21, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

Heh, I said partly.... (and you should know by now that I am never afraid of admitting my mistakes.., Huldra (talk) 22:39, 1 October 2018 (UTC))

Huldra I get your point, but I see that there is inconsistency of that solution. Such as Anwar Khatib describes as "when he was mayor of Jerusalem" or Ruhi al-Khatib describe as "mayor of Al-Quds (East Jerusalem)". Berlin's mayors also describes differently some as "mayor of Berlin (i.e East Berlin)/(West Berlin)" such as Otto Suhr, Heinrich Albertz and some as mayor of East/West Berlin" such Ernst Reuter, Klaus Schütz, Dietrich Stobbe or just as Mayor of Berlin such Walther Schreiber. Therefore you need to discuss it first in the talk page and reach consensus. Sokuya (talk) 16:55, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

Of the Berlin Mayors, only Walther Schreiber didn't specify East/West Berlin (and I have updated that....) To me it is obvious that when something is unclear, we should try to clarify it, and not do the opposite, namely making things murkier. Huldra (talk) 21:23, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

Also, I note that you did not change, say Ruhi al-Khatib from "mayor of Al-Quds (East Jerusalem)" to Mayor of Jerusalem......while you instantly changed all Mayors of West Jerusalem into Mayor of Jerusalem. Why the double standard? Huldra (talk) 21:14, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

Double standard? I revert your changes to the stable version. I also didn't change any of Anwar Khatib description of "Mayor of Jerusalem", just yours. I can make the same claim on you. Why did you change only the Israeli mayors to West Jerusalem but kept Anwar Khatib as just Jerusalem? There is Inconsistency about all those articles, and the right solution needed to be discussed first in the talk page. In the meanwhile we should keep the stable versions and that is why I revert your edits. Sokuya (talk) 22:16, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

I just changed Anwar Khatib to mayor of East Jerusalem (it wasn't on my "watch" list, so I hadn't noticed), are you going to undo that also? I hope not, to repeat: to change back to a diffuse previous "stable version" is not how Wikipedia progress, Huldra (talk) 22:30, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia progress by working together in cooperation. Therefore I already asked you to start a discussion in the talk page so other people could express their opinions. Sokuya (talk) 22:41, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

...but it doesn't demand that you open a discussion about every issue of 2+2=4. You haven't made a single argument for your change, except that you preferred the previous "stable version", and that simply isn't enough. (Btw, at least one other person have already expressed their opinion here.) Again, please revert, Huldra (talk) 23:02, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

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Party logos

Hi Sokuya. Rather than deleting out-of-date ones from articles and leaving them without a logo, a better course of action is to replace the existing file with the new logo. You can do this by going to the logo file (e.g. File:The-Jewish-Home-logo.svg) and clicking "Upload a new version of this file".

Note that if the image is classified as a non-free image, the version you upload must be less than 100,000px in total size (i.e. 316 x 316 or less). Cheers, Number 57 22:55, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

I don't know how to do this when the new logo is a different kind of file, like I can't update svg with png. Sokuya (talk) 09:42, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

File:Blue and White logo.png

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File:Israel, Gesher Party, Logo.png

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Blue and White Party Color

Hello there!

I understand your reasoning for using a new color for the Blue and White Political alliance. On the other hand, I respectfully disagree. the color I chose was used in the past and was in use for around six months before the new color you chose was in effect. I reverted this and returned the azure color to its palce for several reasons:

1) It was in use for a long time in the past and was used by several sites to indicate Blue and White on maps and charts of polling and seats in the Knesset. 2) It is used as a background color in Blue and White rallies and videos. This color was part of a video by Benny Gantz, in which he stands on an azure backgorund which contained the logo of the alliance. 3) it is subtly distinct. The color you chose is close to that of former political parties, notabily the Labor Alignment and the Yemenite Association.

These are my reasonings for the revertion of your edit. Please feel free to discuss the matter if you wish.

all the best!

Rh0809 (talk) 22:21, 14 September 2019

The party is pretty new (about 6-7 months) and the light blue color was used most of the time. Party can use a serval colors, the azure color is no dominant one. The light blue is taken directly from the logo. There was much debate on parties colors talk page and we need to chose color that unique to the party in order to differentiate between other parties on graphs and tables. If you wish to change it to your new azure color you need to start there. Blue and White currently is in position of Alignment as main rival of Likud, so I don’t see any problem there, as Alignment no longer exist. Sokuya (talk) 06:44, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

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Orphaned non-free image File:The Green Movement 2019 logo in Israel.png

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Alternate Prime Minister of Israel edit warring

I'm treating this as edit warring/disruptive editing. You reverted my edit without so much as an edit summary, despite "חלופי" being the exact wording in the Basic Law, which is linked in the article. I will escalate this if you persist. Rami R 08:40, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Also, seeing as you've never officially been warned:

Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Rami R 08:40, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Hello Rami, please don't bully me with bureaucracy while we can talk like two civilized people. I noticed that you created this article so maybe you feel entitled to it, but you don't own this article and this not give you the right to threat me like you just did. You are right saying I should've included an edit summary. However, I still technically only revert you once and not in a 24-hour period. (you first revert my edit on 08:13, 10 June 2020‎, and then I edit it again on 22:22, 11 June 2020‎, so more than 24-hour period) as the three-revert rule stated: "An editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page—whether involving the same or different material—within a 24-hour period", which I never crossed. I also want to remind you fundamental principle on Wikipedia that you may have forgot. – always Assume good faith.

Now, when we can put it behind us, I think we can finally talk peacefully.

Using חלופי is wrong, while it's stated such in the Basic Law that the Knesset passed on May 7, the Academy of the Hebrew Language (which is the regulator of the Hebrew language) published on May 11 an article explaining that in proper Hebrew is should be חליפי, because חלופי has a different meaning. Giving that Law passed before the academy published it, they couldn't fix the name in the law because this means they should start a new legislating process to fix a typo, not very productive. However, media outlets and others started to say חליפי instead of חלופי (see examples: May 24, June 3, June 9). Even Gantz himself fixed it on his social media and write חליפי instead of חלופי (see his twitter bio)

So clearly everyone following the Hebrew Academy decision, and acknowledging the mistake, part from Wikipedia that resisting to hold the spelling of the law, which is a mistake. Legislators are not linguists, and they did not take it in consideration when they legislate the law that meant to end a year-long political dead-lock. We in Wikipedia should follow Gantz, the Hebrew academy and Israeli news outlets and fix it to חליפי. The least we can do it to state this mistake in the article, and say its not proper Hebrew as ruled by the academy. We should state that everyone say חליפי and not חלופי although the law wrote חלופי, except of course us in Wikipedia, because people should know that mistake.

I don't believe this discussion should be held in my talk page, so I'll write this also in the talk page of the article as well. Sokuya (talk) 09:46, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

I won't apologize for "bullying you with bureaucracy", as (1) Per WP:EDITWAR, one does not need to make 3 reverts do be blocked for it. Reverting without any explanation sourced content is clearly edit-warring, not to mention disruptive; and (2) this "bullying" got you to take things seriously and give an actual argument with actual sources.

As for content, I'll gladly continue on the talk page. Rami R 06:20, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

History of Palestine

There is an Israel navbar at the article History of Israel, which is appropriate, unlike your addition to the History of Palestine article, which is inappropriate. As for your snarky edit summary about reading the talk page, I actually was a principal participant in the discussion of this matter here. I note that you were not a party to that discussion and are clearly unfamiliar with its conclusions, so kindly remove the inappropriate navbar. Thank you.Selfstudier (talk) 14:23, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Hello @Selfstudier:, I don't see how the discussion you likned is relevant to the navbars. I see that the discussion was about a name change and merge proposal. I noticed that you wrote that you added the navbar recently "the History of Palestine navbar (I just put that in, I don't know why it wasn't in, was it removed?)". I didn't find anyone else referring it beside you. As I mentioned in my edit summary, there was a discussion on this matter. @AddMore-III:, and @ImTheIP: who didn't participant in the above discussion, explained why this article shouldn't include neither of the navbars. There is article on the history of each state, and there this article about the history of the region that ruled by numerous groups over the course of history. I saw that you acknowledge that by writing "That a once ill-defined area called Palestine has been ruled at different times by different groups is not in dispute". Therefore AddMore-III removed it. I reverted it back to his edit as it was discussed in the talk page specifically on this matter (the navbar). Since you reverted me back and insist to include one of the navbars, I added the other one. But neither of them should be included, so I'm asking you to remove them both. Sokuya (talk) 15:24, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

The conclusion of the recent discussion was that the history of Israel and history of Palestine are two separate issues so there is nothing to "balance". The navbar is just a summary of things that are anyway linked in the article, it is a convenience for readers, nothing more. I note that you are quite happy having the exact same convenience at the history of Israel article which I think tells me all I need to know about your POV on this matter. I can see you are going to be difficult about this so I will start an RFC shortly.Selfstudier (talk) 15:35, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

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Maps in Israeli election wikiboxes

Putting maps in election infoboxes for a national election (such as the 2020 and 2021 Israeli legislative elections) isn't misleading at all - It's common practice to add those maps. The Netherlands/Holland, for example, has a nationwide proportional system just like Israel, and its election articles have a map of municipalities (see for example 2021 Dutch general election). Glide08 (talk) 20:40, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

New Hope

Not going to revert you because I assume you are right, but shouldn't Kulanu be listed because shash-biton is from there. Yes, she was in Likud but still under the Kulanu faction as far as I am aware and the members of the knesset page listed her as Kul;anu in Likud. Idan (username is Zvikorn) (talk) 04:19, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

According to Knesset website she is from Likud faction. There was no Kulanu faction in the last Knesset. So I don't think it's accurate to say that Kulanu merged to New Hope. Sokuya (talk) 10:09, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Sokuya, ummmmm. The link you sent me states she is part of Kulanu. Idan (username is Zvikorn) (talk) 21:00, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

nvm... I now see that her bio is not updated but it says Likud at the top. Idan (username is Zvikorn) (talk) 21:00, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

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Orphaned non-free image File:New Economic Party logo.svg

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AfC notification: Draft:The Tinder Swindler has a new comment

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Euphoria (American TV series) , Euphoria (Israeli TV series) - Edit warring is prohibited

Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Maroonmex (talk) 23:15, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Maroonmex "edit war" with whom? an IP user reverted my edit, my edits was spaced days apart. Sokuya (talk) 23:23, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

I'm sorry but why did you warned me if I didnt break the WP:3RR?? there is cleary 24 hours between each edit. you mentioned that i break the rule in your edit summary, and its false Sokuya (talk) 23:26, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Israel Resilience Party horizontal logo.png

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Adam Neumann

Hi Sokuya. I noticed that you often edit articles connected to Israel, and that you made a few small edits on the talk page of the BLP of the Israeli founder of WeWork, Adam Neumann. Therefore, I am hoping you will have an interest in taking a look at my recent edit request for Neumann. If you agree with my request, kindly implement it as you see fit. Thanks for helping out. Carlos for Neumann (talk) 11:22, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

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