User talk:Prioryman/Archive 9

Re: King's Bastion

Thanks, will do. Have a good break and Happy Easter! --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 09:39, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Śmigus-Dyngus

The DYK project (nominate) 00:03, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

The Czech version of Śmigus-Dyngus was described in the New York Times c. April 2000 and 10 years later. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 11:17, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Shitterton

The DYK project (nominate) 08:02, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Brown Willy

The DYK project (nominate) 08:04, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for John le Fucker

The DYK project (nominate) 16:03, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Wikibreak

My first and only wikifriend on a break? lol. Look forward to your return mate. Ollie DietJustice (talk) 17:49, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:The Mare's Nest.jpg)

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Disputed non-free use rationale for File:A Night to Remember 1955 edition cover.jpg

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Disputed non-free use rationale for File:Icelandic Phallological Museum logo.gif

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Disputed non-free use rationale for File:Bare Faced Messiah US cover.jpg

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Disputed non-free use rationale for File:Bare Faced Messiah UK paperback cover.jpg

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Disputed non-free use rationale for File:Titanic musical Broadway poster.jpg

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GA Nom for The Hole

Howdy- I have reviewed your nomination for The Hole to become a good article. I did not feel it currently met the requirements. You can find my review here. Please feel free to ask any questions you have on my talk page. I hope I wasn't too generic on the review page. Thank you. PrairieKid (talk) 02:57, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

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PrairieKid (talk) 16:34, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Gibraltar DYK questions

In answer to your questions: honestly, I can't answer them. I haven't kept myself up to date with the situation with Gibraltarpedia, so I'm not sure whether or not it's still a problem and what kind of conditions would be appropriate. My initial instinct, though - if there was another RFC tomorrow - would be to take the same position, unless someone could demonstrate that the problem has been satisfactorily resolved. Robofish (talk) 20:23, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Well, that raises the question of what constitutes a "satisfactory resolution". What would you personally be looking for? Prioryman (talk) 20:24, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Answered your questions at User talk:Kaldari#Lifting the Gibraltar DYK restrictions. Cheers. Kaldari (talk) 21:37, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

I broadly agree with Kaldari. Calliopejen1 (talk) 02:26, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

I replied on my talk page. I think it's probably time, but I would need to do more research before saying that without qualification. Tazerdadog (talk) 06:14, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

@Prioryman: - From my vantage point, Gibraltarpedia is a PR disaster for Wikipedia and along the lines of the John Seigenthaler incident a few years back. Happenings like this undermine the project's credibility. You asked: (1) under what conditions you would support a lifting of the restrictions, and (2) when you think it would be appropriate to lift the restrictions? There are no easy answers to those questions. I see it as fighting cancer. If we release the restrictions early (i.e. stop treatment thinking we've eradicated the cancer), it could reemerge, and possibly more virulent than the first iteration. While I understand there are several good editors working on Gibraltar-related projects that deserve recognition, it's hard to balance that with the abuse--as the abuse was quite deliberate. So, the short answers to your questions (1) when we can be sure this madness won't re-rear its ugly head, when the restrictions can be loosened in a way that allow recognition of Gibraltar-related content without it being a massive, coordinated overwhelming campaign to promote Gibraltar by pushing it everywhere often. I am not sure it's possible. If we're still talking about it, the problem is still lurking--the cancer isn't yet in remission. (2) a year might be the appropriate time to reexamine it. No guarantees, no hard-set dates. As with Afghanistan, the US announces a date of leaving, the Taliban just sits biding their time. --ColonelHenry (talk) 11:22, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Slowking made a proposal on my talk page to transition the restrictions to being place-neutral (rather than removing them completely or leaving them indefinitely). This sounds like a good compromise. Basically saying that no one location can be heavily "promoted" on DYK. For example, if an article about Zanzibar appears on DYK in April, no further Zanzibar articles can be used on DYK until May. Thoughts? 17:12, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

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• I would venture to say that begins to look acceptable--I'd have to see more about it before fully agreeing. For instance, is this like a 45-day period between place-specific DYKs? Because that seems like a reasonable number. Given the number of places in this world, 30 seems too small, too frequent, and I'd be bold and say 60 days would be prohibitively long. --ColonelHenry (talk) 12:24, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

• I guess you didn't see my reply on Kaldari's user talk page. Briefly, I pointed out that this would be politically unsellable and logistically very difficult. There's no general acceptance that "over-coverage" is a problem. For instance, we've had 85 DYKs on Gibraltar in the last year, compared to 115 on Indonesia, 112 on mushrooms, 277 on the Olympics or 128 on the Paralympics (see the table at User:Prioryman/DYK data). Nobody has complained that we've had too many on any topic other than Gibraltar. A new and drastic restriction is unsellable to the community at large without any agreement that there is any kind of a problem. On the logistical side, given that there are over 600 DYKs a month it would be a huge task to log and monitor every DYK that runs to track whether a particular topic (defined how and by who?) is being "over-covered" (at what threshold?). Nobody is likely to volunteer for such an onerous job. Prioryman (talk) 18:56, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

• I see your point. So, let me take a day or two and reacquaint myself with the issues again, see what progress has been made since then, see a few other opinions on it, and I'll let you know. Personally, I think the issue was overblown. But before I change my opinion on the matter, I think the big concern is "will it happen again?" and if I have an inkling of foresight that this nonsense will be back or worse back at a fever pitch, I can't in good conscience endorse a lifting of the restrictions. If I see that the abuse is over and likely to stay over, I can endorse a lifting. So let me look into it, I'll let you know by the weekend.--ColonelHenry (talk) 20:52, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
• as for the comparison to the Olympics and Paralympics, I think the analysis is off (statistics is my day job) and that the data you offer is skewed by outliers...namely august and september last year when the Olympics and Paralympics were being held and thus there was an salient and justifiable interest in them. In the interests of Heteroscedasticity, you should disclaim that, and adjust the data to reflect that analysis. However, I see your more central point and I will consider it. All those mushroom DYKs, and none on Amanita phalloides. For shame. --ColonelHenry (talk) 21:00, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

• There's no hurry - there's no active discussion about the restrictions and I expect it will be some months before anyone proposes to lift them again. But could you clarify what you mean by "will it happen again?" What is the "it" that you are referring to? Regarding the stats, I included the Olympics and Paralympics as examples of DYK surges that were being prompted by outside events. The Indonesian and mushroom articles were, if I recall correctly, the work of single very prolific editors. The number of Gibraltar DYKs were being spurred by a contest that ended in December 2012. As far as I know there's no plan for any future contest, and a number of editors have said that they'd want a guarantee of that from the organisers of Gibraltarpedia. Prioryman (talk) 21:56, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

• By "it" I mean anything like Gibraltarpedia--a contest, or a drive coordinated by selfish interests from outside wikipedia (like a tourism board, company, interest group, etc.), anything that will undermine the Wikipedia project's credibility because of its less than pure origins. In this instance, "it" specifically refers to the Gibraltarpedia project...will we have any repeat of this experience? Is it like the Taliban waiting for the US to withdraw? From what I see (in other conversations and the discussion with Kaldari, I observe that you're only with the WikiProject and not the Gibraltarpedia initiative, so I sympathize with your plight. As long as you can assuage that overwhelming concern, I'd support your efforts to rescind the restrictions--heck if that concern is answered, I'd propose it myself.--ColonelHenry (talk) 23:13, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

• OK, I'll see what I can do to answer that concern. Thanks for all your feedback. Prioryman (talk) 07:35, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

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Link to FBI seal discussion?

Hi. I remember the FBI seal discussion, but don't know where to find it. If you do, could you possibly add a link to the straw poll preamble, please? --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 02:17, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, certainly. Prioryman (talk) 06:18, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks :) --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 11:35, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Just as well that I didn't suggest asking the Lord Privy Seal. . . dave souza, talk 11:45, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Possibly the most singularly misnamed job title ever? He's not a privy, not a seal, and he doesn't seal privies... Prioryman (talk) 18:58, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Gibraltar (Wilmington, Delaware)

Hi-I notice that a draft about Gibraltar (Wilmington, Delaware) is at User Doncram's user page. I was wondering if the article is ready to be put on the mainpage? I had asked Doncram about it and received no response. I knew you worked on the article. Thanks-RFD (talk) 12:48, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

This is about User:Doncram/Gibraltar (Wilmington, Delaware). The draft was discussed at User talk:Doncram#Great minds think alike, etc (with some DYK nom discussion), and there is more DYK nom discussion at User talk:Doncram/Gibraltar (Wilmington, Delaware), and then yes RFD brought it up again at User talk:Doncram#Gibraltar (Wilmington, Delaware). Prioryman, I would be very happy if you chose to move it to mainspace. I can't move it myself. The article is obviously DYK-eligible and you could make any DYK nomination. If you notify me of the DYK nomination going on, I would comment and/or try to improve any DYK phrasing. I haven't much developed the User:Doncram/Marian Cruger Coffin article draft, but if you like that could be moved to mainspace too, with or without it being included in the DYK. It would probably make sense to clear the redlink from the Gibraltar article by having it in mainspace, either way. I like your double DYK hook #3 suggestion at the Talk page, "... that Gibraltar's gardens (pictured) were laid out by Marian Cruger Coffin, one of America's first female landscape architects?", but to use that requires a bit more development of the Coffin article.

Cheers, --doncram 18:01, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

I had quite forgotten that article, if I remember rightly I was looking into expanding the MCC article before moving both into mainspace. I'll try to get something sorted out over the next few days. Prioryman (talk) 21:59, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

What you've done with both articles is great. The two separate DYKs are fine; i have no improvements to suggest. Thanks for including me in the DYK for the Gibraltar one, and for leaving me out of the MCC one--i woulda felt funny getting undeserved credit. It's nice getting to learn a bit about you, prioryman, i am very impressed. I don't expect it will come up, but please let me know in the future if i can be helpful in any way. Cheers, --doncram 23:17, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Glad you like them! I might have a go at getting them up to Good Article status next; I think they're pretty close to that level, so it shouldn't be too difficult to do. Prioryman (talk) 23:19, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for List of sieges of Gibraltar

Casliber (talk · contribs) 16:04, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Sock identification

Hi. You just marked a blocked account (with a BLP-breaching username which I will not repeat here) as a sock of Shellys Revenge (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). You should note that this account has already been blocked as a Runtshit sock. Any further such vandalism on Amiram Goldblum is almost certainly the work of this serial vandal. RolandR (talk) 17:50, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

OK, thanks for the info. There's a sockmaster's name that I've not heard in quite a while... Prioryman (talk) 17:51, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Then you've clearly not been editing where I have. Unfortunately, he has not gone away. RolandR (talk) 17:56, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Maybe if there were a substantial Palestinian community in Gibraltar then things would be different? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 01:23, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

There's a substantial North African community, but that's a bit different... Prioryman (talk) 07:28, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for The Mare's Nest

The DYK project (nominate) 08:03, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Wikipediocracy HQ

Prioryman, the Wikipediocracy HQ may be underground, but it's definitely not fetid. WO being funded by aliens after all, there was no reason to spare any expense on the HQ complex. Imagine how much it must have cost to pull fiber optics to that island - do you really that alien masterminds would forget about proper ventilation? 178.222.143.75 (talk) 06:56, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Gibraltar (Wilmington, Delaware)

Many thanks-RFD (talk) 23:12, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Marian Cruger Coffin

The DYK project (nominate) 16:02, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Holding area hooks

Prioryman, I noticed you'd been by my page; I stopped by the Gibraltar holding area, commented, and moved the hook into the "fully approved" section.

There's still one hook languishing there: CITIPEG. Can I ask you to take it in hand? I pulled it from the prep area at your behest, and Soman has subsequently asked what can be done to make it eligible for promotion. Thanks for anything you can do. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:17, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for reminding me - I'll try to sort it out tonight. Prioryman (talk) 07:24, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Incomplete DYK nomination

Hello! Your submission of Template:Did you know nominations/List of sieges of Gibraltar at the Did You Know nominations page is not complete; see step 3 of the nomination procedure. If you do not want to continue with the nomination, tag the nomination page with {{db-g7}}, or ask a DYK admin. Thank you. DYKHousekeepingBot (talk) 09:47, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Many thanks

Many thanks to you for bringing up the Gibraltar (Wilmington, Delaware) article. A family member saw the house and gardens and was wondering about the history. On the Gibraltar DYK issue, there has been too much wikidrama and has been going on for a long time. I wish it would end. Many thanks again-RFD (talk) 10:33, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

GA nomination for Seneb

Hi, I've been doing the review for your GA nomination of Seneb. As GA reviewing is something I'm very new at, I have asked Khazar2 to have a quick look as well and a couple of points have been raised that it would be fine if you could have a look at, please. By the way, what a fascinating article and some very interesting reference books - that I spent far too much time browsing through! Thanks. SagaciousPhil - Chat 14:03, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Gibraltar (Wilmington, Delaware)

Casliber (talk · contribs) 16:02, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

ADE 651

Hi Prioryman. I see this is currently a candidate for ITN. Do you support? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:00, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

I wouldn't mind, but as the main author of the article I think I'm probably too closely involved for it to be appropriate for me to vote for it. Prioryman (talk) 21:12, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

That explains why I didn't see you voting! I'm strongly minded to support. I'm just put off by accusations of sensationalism. But this is a very grim day indeed for British business and reputation in general. It's almost unbelievable. Martinevans123 (talk)

It's certainly one of the most outrageous frauds I've ever heard of. Unfortunately he can't go down for longer than 7 years, the maximum sentence for fraud. Prioryman (talk) 21:22, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

		The Good Article Barnstar
		For your contributions to bring Seneb to Good Article status. Thanks, and keep up the good work - this was a truly fascinating article! -- SagaciousPhil - Chat 09:54, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

adjectives at Battle of Vukovar

Do you still have a copy of the Independent article to verify this change? Also, I can't trivially verify this change because Google Books only shows a snippet for those pages. It does find the phrase "Milošević's authoritarian and centralizing tendencies inside Serbia" at p. 307 of the same book, though. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 07:55, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

You've got mail!

Hello, Prioryman. Please check your email; you've got mail! The subject is DYK.
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Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 18:03, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, I've replied on your talk page. Prioryman (talk) 22:03, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Twelfth Siege of Gibraltar

Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:02, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	Gibraltar Barnstar of National Merit
	For yet another great Gibraltar-related article! Looking forward to any more you may have planned... Keep up the awesome work! :) --Gibmetal 77talk 2 me 20:40, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Siege of Gibraltar

I've let you a message in Talk:Twelfth Siege of Gibraltar. --Weymar Horren (talk) 11:27, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

En català!

Hi Chris, you may have noticed History of Gibraltar is now available in Catalan. Al Lemos has just done the intro for the moment, but it's something. --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 08:52, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Scientology clarification request closed

Hi Prioryman, this is a courtesy notice to inform you that the request for clarification you submitted regarding Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Scientology has been closed and archived. You can view the original discussion here, and the archived copy here. For the Arbitration Committee, Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 03:04, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

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Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 18:41, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Rose

Hey, do you have access to Rose (2001; "Military Engineering on the Rock of Gibraltar and its Geoenvironmental Legacy")? Somebody pointed out that I lack the page range for Rose's chapter for the list of sieges. Btw, I'm going to start drafting a total rewrite of Operation Flavius soon (though it might be a few weeks before I have anything online). Best, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:50, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

I do, though not immediately to hand - I can get it at the British Library though. Prioryman (talk) 16:00, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

If you could find me the page numbers for that chapter, I'd owe you pint! :) HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 09:30, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

3rd opinion request

Hi Prioryman, could I ask if you could give a 3rd opinion to this discussion at DYK please? The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 21:31, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 7

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DYK for Neanderthals of Gibraltar

The DYK project (nominate) 08:02, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

ITN credit

ThaddeusB (talk) 20:40, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Suggestion for Implicit personality theory hook

Thanks for reviewing Implicit personality theory. I think the new hook is great but I made one small adjustment. If you could give it a look and let me know what you think that'd be great! Lrague (talk) 22:48, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Adventure Galley

Casliber (talk · contribs) 16:30, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

A great article, btw - nice work! Hchc2009 (talk) 21:46, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! I spotted it in WP:TAFI on the Main Page and thought I'd have a go at it - I have a soft spot for that particular ship due to far too many hours playing Sid Meier's Pirates!... Prioryman (talk) 21:50, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Twelfth siege of Gibraltar

Hi! There's just a little tweaking needed to pass the Talk:Twelfth Siege of Gibraltar/GA1 review, so I thought to ping you in case you didn't notice that before.--Tomobe03 (talk) 20:45, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Oh, thanks for letting me know! I'll take a look now. Prioryman (talk) 20:47, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Jimbo's talkpage

This is quite clearly a violation of WP:NPA ("Using someone's affiliations as an ad hominem means of dismissing or discrediting their views") and so I have removed it. Black Kite (talk) 22:33, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

How very tiresome of you. Prioryman (talk) 22:35, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Very possibly, but you're clearly aware that there are ways of getting your point across about Wikipediocracy without resorting to that. Black Kite (talk) 22:36, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

WP:SPADE, in spades. Prioryman (talk) 22:39, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Photo of the Northern Defences

Hi Chris, as promised. It's not a perfect match as I think I would have had to break into the Petanque Association's premisses on North Bastion to have achieved this and it's all overgrown but I think it should still work to show the then and now... --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 09:29, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Ty, that's great! Prioryman (talk) 10:28, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Re: Can you identify this place?

Yep, that's Princess Anne's Battery. --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 10:02, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Great, thanks! Prioryman (talk) 10:03, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Any time ;) --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 10:25, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Re: Tunnels

That would be awesome! Someone posted a whole list of tunnels on the WP Gib to-do list but many of these are only small streets within a wider tunnel system. Furthermore, the article on the Great Siege Tunnels is only about the Upper Galleries which is the popular tourist attraction known as the Great Siege Tunnels but the Lower Galleries including Windsor Gallery are also part of this system excavated during the Great Siege.

The vast majority of the WWII tunnels are still MoD property though some such as the Great North Road system can be visited by prior arrangement. Although most of the original amenities within these are in a terrible state of decay, the tunnels are still used for storage and training purposes. More recently for training troops destined to Iraq and Afghanistan in underground warfare. Some say that modern tunnel maps still don’t show all of them for security purposes…

MoD (surface) land on the Upper Rock is now pretty much limited to the north peak of the Rock which does include Rock Gun Battery but many of those signs are indeed leftovers – for some reason it takes years to have old signage removed in Gib! The MoD would also still own any of the batteries in the Buffadero Traning Centre on Windmill Hill and maybe some within parts of the dockyard. I’ll ask a few people to give you a more precise answer. --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 09:11, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Fortifications of Gibraltar

Chris, this is turning out to be another great article. I always struggle with overview articles as I never know how much detail is acceptable but you always seem to strike the right balance!

Just have a comment on the following:

"The Moorish Tower of Homage continues to stand above the Grand Battery on the lower slopes of the Rock. Used for many years as Gibraltar's prison, it is now open to the public as part of the Upper Rock Nature Reserve.[86]"

HMP Moorish Castle occupied the castle's inner keep (the Moorish Castle Estate occupies the outer keep) and extended past the castle's southern limits but I don't think it ever included the Tower of Homage (at least not in my lifetime). Since the opening of the new HMP Windmill Hill the more modern buildings within the inner keep are being demolished by hand while archaeological excavations are carried out. The area has never been excavated so hoping they'll find some exciting stuff in there! The idea is to then open this area of the castle to the public as part of the existing attraction. Hope this clarifies a little. --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 11:42, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Coffin

Really enjoyed reading this article. Nothing to say for GA review except I think the lead is too short, needs to reflect structure of the article. The template at the end should have a landscape gardening section, too, but that's another matter. All the best, - Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:17, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the article, it's a pleasure to review material like this. I'm enjoined to encourage you to review some GAN articles, some of mine have been languishing in the queue for months! Not that I'd want you to review those, obviously. All the best - Chiswick Chap (talk) 11:03, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Map

Thanks for the map Chris, its a lot prettier than the previous one but not quite as useful as I think there is a "key" to it, but I cannot find it. The previous map converted a lot of sub-stubs into articles that at least tell you something about the battery in 1859. The work is looking very good and I'm wondering if "1000 by Utrecht Day" sounds do-able. If Dr B is watching ?? Victuallers (talk) 17:03, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

I think you'll find that another map I've uploaded, File:Plan de Gibraltar - Barbié du Bocage.jpg, is even prettier - and it's annotated. Another useful source? But the reason why I uploaded File:Plan de Gibraltar A H Roché.jpg was precisely because it's not annotated. See what I've done with it below... (a work in progress). Prioryman (talk) 19:50, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Lines of
Contravallation

Devil's Tower ——

Inundation ——

Landport & Grand Battery ——

North Bastion ——

Devil's Tongue
Battery

—— Moorish Castle

Charles V Wall

—— Grand
Casemates

/
King's Bastion

Catalan Bay

Willis'
Battery

\
Line Wall

—— Southport Gates

—— South Bastion

New Mole

Rosia Bay

Windmill Hill

Europa
Point

That is interesting Chris, as you may know I have had an interest in imagemaps in the past but I'd lost interest when the images got so large that the tools I was using wouldn't cope. Looks like a lot has changed - I see there are some new tools. I think your image map is superb. The annotated French map you found is very pretty. The one you are using seems to be covered in numbers. Presumably somewhere there is a key in French. The new map shows the Spanish forts very well, monkeys cave and "Hardy Town" (which I hadnt heard mentioned before). The inundation and Windmill Hill seem to be areas where we could do with more detail as well as the big tunnels like Great North Road. We have written 1000 more articles but still not covered some important bits! Not bad for a project that has had to step through so much. Best Victuallers (talk) 09:52, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Unfortunately the key doesn't seem to have been scanned along with the original map. However, the lack of annotations does at least make it suitable for using as an imagemap! I have some further plans for it which I'll post shortly to Talk:Fortifications of Gibraltar. BTW, I plan to write articles on the Inundation, the Lines of Contravallation and Windmill Hill shortly (hopefully tomorrow, if I get the time). I also have enough info on Hardy Town - a temporary civilian settlement established during the Great Siege - to merit a stub at the very least. Prioryman (talk) 12:05, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Totally agree with Roger, there's still a lot of notable topics yet to cover! I think events such as the border closure and the 1972 general strike are a must, I just need to somehow find the time - argh! The imagemap is pretty cool, gonna have to learn how to do that myself. I spoke to Toromedia yesterday and mentioned to him that you're keen on taking on Tunnels of Gibraltar (this is his pet subject). He's looking forward to it and I'm sure he'll be happy to provide photos. If it helps as a starting point the Spanish Lines has already been written in a few languages including Spanish - see es:Línea de Contravalación de Gibraltar. I've never heard of Hardy Town either. I can't quite make out its exact location but it seems its somewhere in the area of South Barracks, but I'll check with the local historians on the Facebook forums later. --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 12:22, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Just checking that you are aware of Fort Barbara which is the only? substantial remains of the Spanish Lines. Victuallers (talk) 14:39, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

		The Oddball Barnstar
		"Mothers doing strange things with vegetables do probably explain the disposition of Wikipediocracy's contributors..." For that masterpiece of Freudian surrealism, Prioryman, I honour you with the oddball barnstar. Amazing stuff..! p.s. It's true! We are all fuckwits! -- Hillbillyholiday talk 05:47, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Tsk, you didn't read that link you posted earlier, did you, particularly item 12? I was just riffing on it. P.S. If you say so... Prioryman (talk) 07:16, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Fwiw, I'm rather impressed by your work on Gibraltar articles. It's quite professional. Maybe you should stick to content improvement, instead of making wild accusations elsewhere? Just a suggestion. -- Hillbillyholiday ^talk 22:03, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

My talk page

[1] I believe you banned me from your talk page last year sometime. However, over the last three months you have posted quite frequently to my talk page when I was in a position in which I could not respond. To be fair, I told you at the time that you banned me that you were still more than welcome to post to my talk page. I think, however, it would be more helpful if you posted on my page when I am able to respond. Also, now that I'm unblocked, it isn't necessary for you to revert any posts to my talk page made by others, but I appreciate your attention. Cheers. Cla68 (talk) 22:51, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Wikipediocracy

Prioryman, please refrain from making personal attacks (or highly uncivil remarks) about Wikipediocracy and its contributors (individually or as a group). It violates WP:NPA (if not always the letter, then at least the spirit), and doesn't help at all. Raising concrete and serious problems at (e.g.) an RfC/U, an RfA, ANI discussions, ... is of course perfectly allright (if they have a relation with Wikipedia, which is usually the case of course), but some of the comments you made in e.g. the DYK discussion were not acceptable on Wikipedia.

Note that I will not take any admin action against you (if and when that would be necessary) as I'm involved in earlier, unrelated discussions with you; note also that this post doesn't indicate that you are the only problem or that I take a position in the Wikipediocracy discussions. Fram (talk) 08:55, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Tell you what, why don't you get them to refrain from attacking me, then I might not feel the need to be so harsh about them. Prioryman (talk) 09:05, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

If they attack you on Wikipediocracy, then so what? Just don't read it, or read it and ignore it (I'm not talking about actual threats and so on, just regular personal attacks). They have different rules than we do, and we don't suddenly start applying their rules of conduct instead of ours because we are discussing them. If they attack you on Wikipedia, use the normal methods of WP:DR. Don't lower Wikipedia to the level of Wikipediocracy. Fram (talk) 09:10, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

The problem is that what they are doing on Wikipediocracy bleeds across to here. After someone on Wikipediocracy started posting bullshit conspiracy theories about why I'd written a number of articles about Gibraltar, I started being harassed and attacked here by Wikipediocracy members like Carrite and Jayen466. Some non-Wikipediocracy members (who evidently read it) also started picking up the same claims and bringing them up here on Wikipedia. Just look at the top of Wikipedia talk:Did you know/Archive 93#Gibraltar for a very recent example. Moreover, as I'm sure you're well aware, a number of unscrupulous Wikipedians "in good standing" [sic] use Wikipediocracy as a means of sidestepping Wikipedia's policies against harassment, outing and personal attacks. If what happens on Wikipediocracy stayed on Wikipediocracy it wouldn't be so much of an issue, but taking a "turn the other cheek" approach doesn't work if someone is punching you in the face. If people are behaving like evil little shits, they deserve to be called out for it. Prioryman (talk) 10:31, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

You are aware that "turn the other cheek" is explicitly referring to how one responds to physical violence inflicted upon one's face are you not? Indeed, the very nature of the phrase suggests one should allow repeated injury to the face rather than resorting to retaliatory violence.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 23:17, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I'm quite aware of that, but I think it's unrealistic. The "Chicago way" is a better reflection of how it works in real life. Prioryman (talk) 23:35, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Certainly, non-violence, being the quality of the heart, cannot come by an appeal to the brain, so I can understand how a dedicated rationalist may find it hard to respond to physical force with soul force. However, if man is to evolve for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression and retaliation then the foundation of such a method is love. Peace mah brutha!--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 23:54, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

I once made an argument not unlike that to a brigadier at a dinner party many years ago. He put two fingers together, put them to my head and said, "Bang". A simple point, but a powerful one. Prioryman (talk) 23:58, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

A baby put one finger out, and started tapping her father's forehead. "How do you like it?" Kiefer.Wolfowitz 10:43, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

(tps) Prioryman should be extended considerable leeway regarding his characterization of Wikipediocracy, given the way he's treated there, and here for that matter, by some Wikipediocracy regulars. Suggesting he just not read it is, well, silly. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 10:45, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Speaking from experience, turning the other cheek does work. Once they've punched you twice in the face and got no reaction, most people give up. -- Hillbillyholiday ^talk 00:07, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

• A quote on Wikipediocracy: "Anyway, I am a contributor, and I'm not sorry about that. Wikipediocracy fills a necessary role, and it fills it rather well." -- Larry Sanger@Wikipediocracy (25 May 2013)

Re: More fortification-related articles

Thanks Chris these are looking great. Sorry for the delay, been caught up with Gibraltar Football Association's acceptance into UEFA and I'm not even a football fan! Will add infoboxes, check links, etc. Good job on uploading those detailed maps too! Still intrigued by Hardy Town... --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 17:24, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your continued help! You may wish to see User:Prioryman/Hardy Town, Gibraltar. Prioryman (talk) 18:23, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the link. I got some info and maps from some local historians on the various Gib history Facebook groups. Let me know if you're on Facebook so I can provide you with the links. --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 08:42, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

No idea but I'll enquire. My suspicion though is that it was never really abandoned with the area possibly having been taken over entirely by the military. If I'm correct about Hardy Town's location being in the area of Mount Road then that would sort of make sense considering The Mount was built there in 1797... --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 11:50, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

I think it was further south than that. We know from the sources and maps that it was behind the naval hospital. If you look at File:Plan of Gibraltar.jpg and compare it to the map on my Hardy Town draft, the location matches pretty closely to approximately this area on Europa Road. The French map shows something called Santa Rosia (a church?) next to it to the north, do you know what that is and if it's still there? Prioryman (talk) 12:25, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

You're absolutely right! Tito Vallejo has just posted a 1782 map in the History of Gibraltar Facebook group in reply to my queries which depicts large areas of encampment behind the Old Naval Hospital. I'm now pretty sure the building labelled Ste Rosia in the French map surrounded by gardens/fields is actually The Mount as it's located directly behind South Barracks (Caserne). Not sure why Barbié du Bocage would have labelled Ste Rosia though so I'll ask around again... --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 19:02, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Don't know if you could see the image in the link I provided above but here's another showing the Hardy Town surrounded by Garrison Encampments. --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 22:38, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, that's really interesting stuff! Now if only we can narrow down when Hardy Town was abandoned/demolished... Prioryman (talk) 22:38, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Notice

Sources which may or may not be reliable, which you have discussed here, have become the subject of a Request for Clarification of the ArbCom proceeding here. You are welcome to participate in the Request for Clarification. regards ... Phoenix and Winslow (talk) 21:13, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Does this interest you at all?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/English_Wikipedia_readership_survey_2013 --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 02:53, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Requesting a repeal on one of rules from Wikipedia talk:Did you know/GibraltarPediA Options

You said discuss a restriction on September. However, seems to me that since the 2013 February fiasco, all the Gibraltar hooplah has died down, while four more Gibraltar nominations were created. The least effective should be involvement of Victuallers in regards to creating and/or nominating related articles for DYK, even though Victuallers declares himself to stay away from the Project. Is it too soon? --George Ho (talk) 06:45, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

It probably is, I'm afraid. I'm planning to run a Gib-related TFA in July; the response to that should hopefully indicate whether the temperature has dropped sufficiently to make a lifting of the restrictions viable. Let's have another chat on this in about six weeks' time. Prioryman (talk) 06:49, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

What's TFA? How can I check the temperature? Six weeks from now is fine to chat. --George Ho (talk) 07:02, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Today's Featured Article. See User:Prioryman/History of Gibraltar TFA. I don't expect there will be a big reaction to it being nominated or run, but it'll be an opportunity to see whether there's a significant number of people who are still willing to complain. Prioryman (talk) 07:07, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Ugh... another restriction proposal? Considering the hooplah by another windbag, still shall you propose a Gibraltar-related article as TFA in the main page? --George Ho (talk) 02:19, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Oh, absolutely. Look at it this way - the windbags are so obviously a tiny minority and pissing people off so much that they're making my case for me. They've driven the amount of participation in that TFA request to a level that I've never seen before (see Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests#July 13). Nominating the article has the beneficial side effect of smoking out the dead-enders and exposing the depth of their irrationality and extremism. A successfully concluded TFA will make it that much harder to sustain a DYK restriction. There will be more big developments soon afterwards, hopefully, which will eliminate most of the remaining case for retaining the restrictions. Prioryman (talk) 07:58, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Congratulations! You have attracted a lot of supporters in the discussion. What else next? --George Ho (talk) 04:25, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! Next step should come around August, hopefully. Watch this space! Prioryman (talk) 07:40, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

August, eh? Would that mean discussing restrictions? --George Ho (talk) 16:17, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Actually, no, but as I said, watch this space. I'll notify DYK and a couple of other places nearer the time. Prioryman (talk) 07:23, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Note: I was going to post something here but decided it wouldn't be productive. As a general guidance, Prioryman, it would be best practice to be less dismissive and more accommodating of concerns regarding Gibraltar articles and the home page of Wikipeda. If somebody is concerned, as I am, there is no harm in taking concerns seriously and addressing them. If you are right, there is no risk in that approach. If you are wrong, talking through the issue (rather than charging ahead) could save you a lot of trouble down the road. Jehochman ^Talk 12:55, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

The problem is that the "concerns" that have been expressed by yourself and JN466 are bullshit conspiracy theories, and neither you nor JN466 are listening to what anyone else (let alone me) is saying to you on the issue. Since you've given me some advice, I'll give you some in return. First, you've just been on the losing end of a 31-to-4 vote on TFAR, and your views have been rejected at every forum you've shopped them to. This is a collaborative project which runs on the basis of consensus, and when you are being outvoted 9 to 1 you need to recognise that consensus is overwhelmingly against you. Second, you need to stop posting accusations without any evidence whatsoever. I saw what you posted before you rightly decided to delete it. It was completely false in every particular. What's more, you have absolutely no evidence to back up any of your claims or accusations - you're pulling it out of your ass. Believe me, if this ever got to arbitration you would be toast, so disengagement is a very wise idea indeed. As I said earlier, please move on and find something more constructive to do. Prioryman (talk) 07:23, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Re: Koehler carriage

Thanks for covering yet another important part of Gibraltar's military history! I had a quick look but I've been on mobile for most of the weekend which is a pain for editing. Will give it a proper once over when I get back to my PC. --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 17:36, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Superb list Chris. I think there were three models at least. There was a bit of discussion on Facebook and some pictures (not free). The model in the museum certainly had a pair which I think is in a military place in the UK. They also built another model during WWII so that they could plan new tunnels. I can't remember where I read about this. There was a volunteer who was planning to make a 3D model of the rock today and I went to se the correct dept of the government but it want delivered. I think the data on the 3D shape may still be a military "secret" although obviously Google have a good version. I have a tool called Locator which is very useful for finding coords and its here. I'll see if I can up some pix from the 2,600 we now have. Respect Victuallers (talk) 22:06, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Inundation, Gibraltar

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:03, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Wikipediocracy

You recently suggested that I ask the members of Wikipediocracy to "lay off" you I did as you requested, but to date, this is the only response, so it is by no means representative:

"Prioryman, you lied about previously being involved with Scientology during the Cirt RfC, then made a series of ad hominem attacks against its signers. You asked Alison to resign her adminship because she posts here. You bollocked me on my user talk page while I was blocked and couldn't respond. You have made a series of libelous and BLP--violating comments about one of our administrators, using his real name on-wiki. And, you then have the nerve to say we should leave you alone and not call you out on your behavior? How old are you? 12?"

While I'm here, I don't think this was a personal attack, though this may be. -- Hillbillyholiday ^talk 15:54, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

It's a pity that the person who posted that got unblocked - he's evidently learned nothing from the experience. Prioryman (talk) 16:02, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

TFA nomination

I'm so sorry if my naive attempts to establish some facts in the place of assertions have led to a delay in approving the front page appearance. It's my fault for wading in on a subject I know nothing about and upsetting an editor with a passionately-held agenda. Apologies for unnecessarily prolonging the discussion. I don't know how you feel about commenting on bigoted lunatics, but I have ventured a comment on Hiram Wesley Evans, higher up the TFA page. Best wishes. Tim riley (talk) 13:28, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

• I find it quite telling that your nomination is located under a blurb with a picture of a KKK man in full regalia and yet has drawn all the criticism. People are thinking illogically over Gibraltar(pedia). If they had dropped this (non-)issue, it would have faded away ages ago. Cripes, some people are writing Gibraltar (although not necessarily the same Gibraltar) hooks just to piss 'em off. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:35, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

• Yes, it's ironic isn't it? Tim, don't worry at all - it's clearly got overwhelming approval so I don't see much chance of it being delayed. I don't mind commenting on bigoted lunatics - I've had to deal with several of them just in the process of that TFA. Prioryman (talk) 17:12, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Aqueduct fountain pics

Better late than never, I hope! --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 22:18, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Hardy Town, Gibraltar

Gatoclass 00:07, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks

… for the kind remarks at the DYK nom for Rosalia (festival). It was challenging and often frustrating to pull all the different perspectives together. I didn't see your note about the image in time to make a suggestion: it might've been possible to take a detail like a wreathed head or something from The Roses of Heliogabalus or another painting used in the article. Again, I appreciate the positive feedback for a task that absorbed much more time than I expected. Cynwolfe (talk) 16:15, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Architecture

Thought you may wanna keep an eye on this draft. Don't know if you unearthed any architectural info when you were working on Moorish Gibraltar. It's the first time I attempt the harvard method of referencing so grateful if you could let me know if I muck it up ;) --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 11:49, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

I'll keep an eye on it! I don't know if you've come across a pamphlet called Save Gibraltar's heritage: an independent report (Save Britain's Heritage, 1982) but it contains a lot of architectural info and critiques, and a gazetteer of the architecturally most interesting buildings in Gib. Prioryman (talk) 19:05, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Never heard of it! Sounds like it'll be useful, is it available online? --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 10:41, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Nope, but I found a copy in the British Library. I'll add some material from it in slower time. Prioryman (talk) 17:43, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Cool thanks. --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 20:07, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Koehler Depressing Carriage

Gatoclass 16:02, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Prioryman. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Today's_featured_article/requests.
Message added 23:51, 10 June 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

TheOriginalSoni (talk) 23:51, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Houseplants

An unusual topic for an article which I would have never thought of but I'm sure it'll make an interesting read. I have loads of plants myself but no garden :) Looking forward to this one! --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 10:53, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Sorry to disappoint you, but I wrote it as a joke to wind up one of the die-hard detractors... Prioryman (talk) 17:42, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Not wound up at all. I found it refreshingly funny of you.

My things about houseplants was from "Children of Dune... what about Pets, Children and Houseplants of Dune?" Wikivigilant (talk) 18:35, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Fair play, Chris. You should feel honoured to receive such a compliment from Vigliant. -- Hillbillyholiday ^talk 18:40, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

I was curious if you saw my retort.

"I had no idea he was even human.

I has assumed he was a later model Dalek, hounding us over his issues with stairs."

I feel like we're playing a cheap game of chess by mail. Wikivigilant (talk) 18:50, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

RE: Does the article still need 1RR restriction?

You probably already saw this,[2] but to be on the safe side, I wanted to make sure. I'm planning on requesting the 1RR restriction be lifted as no longer being necessary, but I want to make sure that there are no outstanding objections before I do that. Thanks. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 22:11, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

June 2013

Please do not attack other editors, as you did on User talk: Jimbo Wales. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. The claim that a specific user is "lying", even if true, is a personal attack. Robert McClenon (talk) 12:01, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, but please don't take this any further. The content has been removed by Prioryman already. We are squared up. Jehochman ^Talk 12:04, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

You made some fair points about the actual issue in that section. I've taken it out completely because I don't see why we should keep the heat but not the light from the section; hopefully you'll be able to rework them more effectively as a pure rebuttal about the DYKs. Wnt (talk) 16:37, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Robert, Jehochman was rightly accused of being a bully and a liar with a few diffs provided. It was not a personal attack. It was an accusation supported by the evidences. Please see here: "Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence. Serious accusations require serious evidence. Evidence often takes the form of diffs and links presented on wiki.", but the evidences were provided, and that's why your warning is unwarranted. I am not sure what really is going on with Gibraltar, and have no time to investigate the matter, but no matter what Jehochman is the last user to call somebody out on PR editing. 71.198.212.25 (talk) 17:36, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Agree

With this [3]. I put that content here so you would have an option to respond, but I think it was wise for you not to take the bait. Such feuding serves no good purpose. Let's move on. Jehochman ^Talk 15:38, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Interaction ban question

[4] Do you currently have an interaction ban with YRC? Cla68 (talk) 23:52, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Apparently. See Wikipedia:Editing_restrictions#Placed_by_the_Wikipedia_community. Jehochman ^Talk 00:32, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

I notified ANI. Cla68 (talk) 01:40, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Source

Know where I can request for this site to be white-listed as a reliable source? Chipulina's work is well researched and referenced, he just happens to use a blog as a collection of his articles. --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 11:33, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Bare Face Hatchet Job

See Talk Bare Faced Messiah Non factual opinionsDrg55 (talk) 10:16, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Iris hut

The DYK project (nominate) 08:48, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Lines of Contravallation of Gibraltar

The DYK project (nominate) 16:32, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Fortifications of Gibraltar

Orlady (talk) 00:02, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Fortifications of Gibraltar

Hi! Kudos on great work on the Fortifications of Gibraltar article. You might consider adding {{Infobox military installation}} to the article. I'm not quite sure myself if the infobox belongs there or in articles on individual structures (if any).--Tomobe03 (talk) 11:23, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks very much! I'm not entirely sure either to be honest. I'll look into it. Prioryman (talk) 12:00, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Main Page appearance: history of Gibraltar

This is a note to let the main editors of history of Gibraltar know that the article will be appearing as today's featured article on July 13, 2013. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. If you prefer that the article appear as TFA on a different date, or not at all, please ask featured article director Raul654 (talk · contribs) or one of his delegates (Dabomb87 (talk · contribs), Gimmetoo (talk · contribs), and Bencherlite (talk · contribs)), or start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Today's featured article/requests. You can view the TFA blurb at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/July 13, 2013. If it needs tweaking, or if it needs rewording to match improvements to the article between now and its main page appearance, please edit it, following the instructions at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/instructions. The blurb as it stands now is below:

The history of Gibraltar (pictured in 1782) spans over 2,900 years. First inhabited 50,000 years ago by the Neanderthals, Gibraltar may have been one of their last refuges before their extinction. To the Carthaginians and Romans it was one of the Pillars of Hercules at the mouth of the Mediterranean Sea. Moors from North Africa first settled and fortified it, calling it Jebel al-Tarik, later corrupted into Gibraltar. Castile contested it and eventually conquered it in 1462, after which it became part of Spain. An Anglo-Dutch force seized it in 1704. It was ceded to Britain under the Treaty of Utrecht, signed on 13 July 1713. Spain unsuccessfully besieged Gibraltar in 1704, 1727 and 1779–83; its status is still disputed. The territory became a British Crown colony and an important trading post and base for the Royal Navy. During the Second World War it was a key British garrison, controlling access to the Mediterranean. Gibraltar's fourteen sieges have led to it becoming "one of the most densely fortified and fought over places in Europe." Today it is a self-governing British Overseas Territory with an economy based largely on financial services, shipping and tourism. (Full article...)

UcuchaBot (talk) 23:02, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Help needed

Hi! I've recently submitted the United Nations Confidence Restoration Operation in Croatia article at GAN, and it is currently undergoing a review at Talk:United Nations Confidence Restoration Operation in Croatia/GA1. One issue that came up during the review was grammar - I did some copyediting to improve the article in that respect, but I'm not entirely sure if I missed something or not. Could you please have a look at the article and lend a hand there? Thanks!--Tomobe03 (talk) 10:14, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

I don't think you've missed anything. That's a really good article - well done! Prioryman (talk) 21:49, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Wesley Warren Jr.

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 16:04, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Watching some big balls on TV right now! --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 20:38, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Just watched it. Totally nuts! Prioryman (talk) 21:26, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

>15,000 hits - Are you not worried that people will see this and decide to get genital surgery instead of going on holiday to Iberia :-) Victuallers (talk) 07:20, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

It's come out at just under 20,000 hits - the most-read DYK of the month so far. Don't worry, I'm not being sponsored by the urologists' trade union. ;-) Prioryman (talk) 07:08, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Well with 992 new articles about Gibraltar we might just be able to distract people from cutting large bits of their genitals for a while.... otherwise the urologist's will as ever get what glitters (even if it isn't gold). 8 articles to go! Victuallers (talk) 11:56, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Re: History of Gibraltar pic

That's fair enough, I hadn't thought it through. I've been searching for a free image for ages to no avail but I'll ask around again in the usual forums. I think the closure of the frontier warrants it's own article so would really be good if we could find a decent pic and maybe even two! --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 20:36, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Henry Ince

The DYK project (nominate) 08:02, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Tunnels of Gibraltar

Hello! Your submission of Tunnels of Gibraltar at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. I've noted a couple of questions on the nomination, so could you have a look please? Also, there is a section header "Tunnels today" - should that perhaps read something like "Recent times"? You know far better than I do and it doesn't concern the DYK anyway. Sorry to be such a pain! SagaciousPhil - Chat 08:43, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 25

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DYK for Bunostegos

Orlady (talk) 16:05, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Shell and Shot

When I visited Gibraltar as a child...

("Who paid for your trip to Gibraltar as a child, Demiurge?!? Tell us!" ... "Why, my parents did, obviously")

... I was fascinated by the lifesize but not hugely lifelike waxworks (if that's the right word) representing Messrs Richmond and Brand, who are described in your article Soldier Artificer Company.

It's clear that neither Richmond nor Brand are individually notable, since they died of disease before attaining any significant rank or achieving significant individual feats of bravery. And, when I did some desultory searches, I mostly found a very old source that did discuss them and their origins and their fates, but also implied they were but the particularly outstanding two of a numerous peergroup. (Many of whom were employed in collecting small stones for projectiles or shaping or splitting other stones for projectiles, and similar things.) The source in question then went on to contradict itself, and I gave up at that point.

Given the Madame Tussauds treatment these two individuals received in public museums over perhaps several decades in the modern era, though, one begins to wonder if there is some notability. Are you aware of any other sources that discuss them - is there likely to be enough material to justify an article on them as a pair, or, as a random alternative, their peergroup in the siege? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 01:50, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

To be honest, I doubt it - they're mentioned in passing in a couple of sources but I really doubt that there's much more that could be said about them. Prioryman (talk) 07:59, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. I will keep an eye out, but I guess there's little chance of anything further coming to light.

Probably the only thing that might produce more sources would be a significant uptick in popular culture interest in the great siege. For example if there were a movie based on it; there's plenty of suitable material to base a decent movie on. There doesn't seem to have been one, although Horatio Hornblower seems to spend some of his time there.

On the subject of Gibraltar-related movies, I see we have Gibraltar (1938 film), Gibraltar (1964 film), the apparently unrelated Gibraltar (2011 film) set in Rwanda, but also more recently Gibraltar, a film by Ana Garcia set on the Rock itself. The latter might not be notable either. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 23:57, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

DYK for King's Lines

Gatoclass (talk) 10:53, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Queen's Lines

Gatoclass (talk) 10:53, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Prince's Lines

Gatoclass (talk) 10:53, 29 June 2013 (UTC)