User talk:Pi.1415926535/Archive 14

This is an archive of past discussion threads on User talk:Pi.1415926535, from July 2020 (the end of Archive 13) to November 2020. Please don't modify it. If you wish to revive a discussion, please start a new section on my main talk page and link to the discussion here.

Your GA nomination of West Concord station

The article West Concord station you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:West Concord station for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of SNUGGUMS -- SNUGGUMS (talk) 03:21, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of referenced info from Kenmore station article

I just noticed that back in February you had removed some well-referenced info from the article about Kenmore station regarding the temporary wooden track supports at the station, and the loud resonant noises they made during the decades before they were removed: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kenmore_station&diff=prev&oldid=941881243

This fact was well-referenced to Brian Cudahy's book, and I can also personally confirm that it was true from my own experience. Could this information be restored, since it would be of interest to at least some readers?

The "citation needed" at the end of the original paragraph was added by me, but it only referred to the more-recent filling-in of the trench with dirt and concrete, which I was unable to reference explicitly at that time. As it stands modified now, the paragraph implies that the fill-in is documented in Cudahy's book, which was actually published long before the filling-in was performed. Thus, the modified paragraph is materially misleading, whereas the original paragraph was accurate although incompletely referenced. Reify-tech (talk) 18:37, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Reify-tech: While I'm sure you're correct, neither Cudahy nor Clarke mention the noise issue. (Perhaps that is covered in older issues of Rollsign, which I'm planning to acquire at some point.) I've re-added the cited information about the wooden supports; hopefully it's now clear that the 1980s changes are cited to Clarke's 1997-published book. Thanks, Pi.1415926535 (talk) 21:46, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Brian Cudahy did mention the loud resonant noise of the wooden structures in his 1972 book, which I referenced in the article. I remember it distinctly, because while I already knew from experience that Kenmore was exceptionally noisy, I had never thought about the reasons until I saw the historical explanation in his book. I didn't add the page number, because I didn't yet know how to use the Template:RP to append this info to the ref. Unfortunately, some of my books are in storage at present, so I can't get the exact page number. Cudahy's 1972 book is a slim hardcover volume, so it shouldn't be hard for an interested reader to find the section covering Kenmore station. Reify-tech (talk) 16:20, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I can't find reference to the noise in my copy. I just emailed you scans of the relevant pages. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 20:00, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

IMS, and it may not, Cudahy details the fact of the stub trestle section, but not the noise it created; Sanborn is who mentioned it in writing. Qwirkle (talk) 16:18, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Qwirkle: Thanks for the tip! Do you have any idea which of Sanborn's publications it may have been? The only work of his I'm familiar with is this, which is a great compendium but rather erratic as far as what it mentions (and doesn't mention the Kenmore noise). Pi.1415926535 (talk) 20:29, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I do not, but it was like that; wide-ranging and hit-or-miss. Qwirkle (talk) 20:40, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Massachusetts camp articles

I noticed the redirect of South Hingham Camp. I don't object to redirecting these stubs. However, since many of them are primarily associated with a particular unit, I think they should be merged to that unit's article rather than the bare list article, as I've done with South Hingham. RobDuch (talk·contribs) 21:03, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm ambivalent about unit versus list, so I'll defer to you there. I'm going through Category:Massachusetts articles missing geocoordinate data and adding coordinates; I nominated that one for deletion because I couldn't even find enough information to add the coordinates. Cheers, Pi.1415926535 (talk) 21:28, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Your GA nomination of Marie Wittman

The article Marie Wittman you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Marie Wittman for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of The Most Comfortable Chair -- The Most Comfortable Chair (talk) 08:02, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	For writing Marie Wittman. History of medicine is one of the areas Wikipedia could do better in and you have helped. Thank you for your work! — The Most Comfortable Chair 08:08, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@The Most Comfortable Chair: Thank you for the kindness! I greatly appreciated your medical expertise for the review. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 04:53, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

CapeFlyer Connections; Steamship Authority Shuttle

I saw that you did a lot of cleaning up on the station list and connections on the CapeFlyer article; I appreciate that, since I admittedly was a bit sloppy when I initially added most of them. However I also noticed you removed the listing of the Steamship Authority shuttle connection at the Bourne station; I wasn't sure if this was an oversight or if it was intentional? If it was intentional, I just wanted to check if there was a specific reason it was removed (if it didn't meet a criteria for listing, for example) that I might not have known about. Thanks in advance. VSatire (talk) 18:00, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@VSatire: Good catch - it was an accident on my part. I've re-added it. Thanks, Pi.1415926535 (talk) 18:05, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Marie Wittman

On 20 September 2020, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Marie Wittman, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Marie "Blanche" Wittman, formerly a hysteria patient of Jean-Martin Charcot, contracted radiation-induced cancer while working for Albert Londe? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Marie Wittman. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Marie Wittman), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Amakuru (talk) 12:02, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Your GA nomination of Bowdoin station

The article Bowdoin station you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Bowdoin station for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of ArnabSaha -- ArnabSaha (talk) 05:22, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Your GA nomination of East Taunton station

The article East Taunton station you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:East Taunton station for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of ArnabSaha -- ArnabSaha (talk) 06:42, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Your GA nomination of South Attleboro station

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article South Attleboro station you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of ArnabSaha -- ArnabSaha (talk) 07:40, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Capping is a dynamic process in English

Hi Pi, I note your contretemps with Dicklyon. It doesn't take much to get used to downcased "station" and "line". Some sources may still cap them (especially in titles), just as job adverts still highlight Garbage Collector Grade II, etc. But all the major style guides (US, UK, elsewhere) tell us to minimise capping. Tony (talk) 08:35, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Capping is a dynamic process in English So is trolling, by the look of it. Qwirkle (talk) 17:11, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Your GA nomination of Ipswich Street line

The article Ipswich Street line you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Ipswich Street line for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Hog Farm -- Hog Farm (talk) 15:42, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Why cap Tunnel?

Pi, I know you've asked me not to talk to you, but you just reverted a bunch of case fixes without so much as a hint of a reason. Can you explain why you'd want to cap "Tunnel" in a context where sources pretty much never do? Dicklyon (talk) 05:09, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And your calling my edits "vandalism" is unconscionable. Don't go there. Dicklyon (talk) 05:31, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Because actual reliable sources by actually knowledgeable people do. (There's an argument to be made that Cambridge Subway is more correct, though that tends to be more common in pre-Dorchester Extension sources.) What are these "sources" you constantly refer to? If they are reliable and useful and provide information that isn't in the existing sources, why are you not adding them to the articles? That would improve the articles and support your argument at the same time. I've never once seen you add a source to an existing MBTA-related article, and what you post on talk pages seems to be limited to Google Books searches with no actual analysis of whether they are actually useful as sources. The majority of the results you tout are trivial mentions, while you discount entire offline books and periodicals.

This particular change was discussed, at length, on the Red Line talk page, with no consensus to decapitalize and absolutely no support from anyone who's actually made substantial additions to these articles. You have made no attempt to reach a consensus at Wikiproject Trains, despite that being an obvious place to get input from many editors with a massive combined knowledge base. You have not demonstrated any interest in making substantive additions to any of these articles - merely to make capitalization changes. You have not made any additions that indicate a level of knowledge sufficient to find useful sources or to assess which sources are reliable. This is a system with a complex history and sources buried in many places, which is why I spend so much time writing detailed articles.

Your capitalization changes are made without concern for consensus, as is the case here. You make the same edits over and over even when it is clear that others disagree with them. You write volumes on talk pages, constantly demanding other editors take to repeatedly respond, yet are never convinced by anyone else's arguments. You have not demonstrated any interest in demonstrating good faith by making non-controversial edits or otherwise collaborating with any other editors on these articles, nor even acknowledged that they may know more about a subject than you. The combined effect of these behaviors is that your edits in this topic area are indistinguishable from vandalism: you know they are not wanted, you know they will be reverted by multiple editors, and yet you make them anyway. Whatever your intentions are, the result is that you wasted other editors' time and didn't improve the knowledge of the reader. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 06:23, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If such an edit has been made before, by me or anyone, or discussed anywhere, I'm not aware of it. Please link. As for sources, yes, a book search does reveal a sample of them: see [1]. If you have sources that cap it, let me know; I don't see any such sources linked on articles. Where you reverted, the only source in the section is Cudahy's Change at Park Street Under, which I have, which does not mention the Cambridge tunnel at all, but does talk about the "Cambridge subway" and "Beacon Hill tunnel" and other such things lowercased (and some capped like "Cambridge Connection" and "Cambridge Main Street Subway" which he says were the names used). Who caps this? What "offline sources" are you relying on? Dicklyon (talk) 04:15, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Two points. First, a generalization about something probably applies to parallel articles, so pointing out that something hasn’t been explicitly stated on one article when the exact same issue exists on a related article seems less than candid. Next, if this is, at it seems to be, about the editing of an article or class of articles, why is it on an individual user’s talk page, much less one of the (undoubtedly many) who do not particularly welcome you there? Qwirkle (talk) 21:32, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

My attempts to discuss such topics at article talk pages are generally ignored by the both of you, as at Talk:Shawmut station. I guess I better just ping you instead? As for generalizations, the precedents are widespread, such as the various RM discussions we had about things like the Tremont Street subway, after which you refused to accept the concensus that was expressed there, and more generally in MOS:CAPS. You and Pi seem to think it's OK to have your own variant style in MBTA-related articles; I think that needs fixing. Dicklyon (talk) 22:36, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps instead you should consider waiting for others to join the conversation, then. Perhaps you could also consider why you have essentially the same problem across different subject areas. Perhaps you could consider whether your habit of summoning fellow-believers into these discussions is actually helpfull. But most of all, you should ask yourself why you are having a conversation in a place you are not particularly welcome, and whether that reflects any personal traits that might be partly behind the editing issues. Qwirkle (talk) 23:38, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, yes, great suggestion. I shall examine myself for personal flaws and get back to you. Dicklyon (talk) 03:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The peasants will undoubtedly rejoice. Qwirkle (talk) 03:49, 12 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Your GA nomination of South Attleboro station

The article South Attleboro station you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:South Attleboro station for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of ArnabSaha -- ArnabSaha (talk) 11:22, 12 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Your GA nomination of State-of-the-Art Car

The article State-of-the-Art Car you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:State-of-the-Art Car for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of ArnabSaha -- ArnabSaha (talk) 19:02, 14 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Adam Jensen

Hey not sure if you saw, but the Jensen page was restored at WP:UNDELETE before he got himself blocked indefinitely. Do you think you'll bring it back to AfD? ♠PMC♠ (talk) 19:53, 14 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Premeditated Chaos: Thanks for letting me know. I've pinged the undeleting admin; if they're not willing to redelete, then I'll renominate. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 20:18, 14 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No problem, I figured you might be interested. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 20:21, 14 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Your GA nomination of Charles/MGH station

The article Charles/MGH station you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Charles/MGH station for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of ArnabSaha -- ArnabSaha (talk) 18:42, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

MBTA station color headers

Where are the different color headers for MBTA stations defined? It seems that the colors listed after the "style2" parameter are both case-sensitive and selective (i.e. it doesn't seem to allow a red and blue header on Charles/MGH station). I'm creating an external website on the MBTA, both past, present, and future using screenshots of Wikipedia's templates (with proper attribution, of course), and I am trying to get the Charles/MGH header to display red and blue just in page preview mode so that I can capture that screenshot for my page about the future Blue Line extension. Note that I am not trying to actually change the Wikipedia article - just change the format display for page preview without actually saving the changes. 192.196.218.224 (talk) 19:30, 22 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@192.196.218.224: The colored headers are defined in Module:Adjacent stations/MBTA. It's a data module for Module:Adjacent stations, which is used by Template:Infobox Station to implement styles like the header. I'm afraid that's about as far as my knowledge goes; I haven't worked much with the header styles. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 20:43, 22 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(talk page stalker) @192.196.218.224: Each style has to be defined explicitly and we didn't have that combination yet. I've added it: [2]. Best, Mackensen (talk) 21:22, 22 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I got what I needed - feel free to revert that change since the combination isn't actually in use yet. 192.196.218.224 (talk) 22:02, 22 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Bowdoin station

On 4 November 2020, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Bowdoin station, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the entrance to Bowdoin station was designed by Josep Lluís Sert as part of a project for a never-built chapel? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Bowdoin station. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Bowdoin station), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:02, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Bowdoin station

How do you know that the OSM coordinates are incorrect? Are you groundtruthing the coordinates? As for "my personal preferences", I prefer D°M′S″ and D.dddd°, whichever is closest to the target object. Abductive (reasoning) 19:25, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You can compare them to the station layout in the article. The OSM coordinates only barely touch the north side of the station. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 19:33, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. I was looking at the exit stairs. I assume you live in the area? Abductive (reasoning) 19:57, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Your GA nomination of Alewife station

The article Alewife station you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Alewife station for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of SNUGGUMS -- SNUGGUMS (talk) 17:21, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for State-of-the-Art Car

On 7 November 2020, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article State-of-the-Art Car, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the State-of-the-Art Car was designed to run on portions of five different subway systems? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/State-of-the-Art Car. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, State-of-the-Art Car), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

—valereee (talk) 12:02, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Charles/MGH station

On 9 November 2020, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Charles/MGH station, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Blue and Red are proposed to meet at Boston's Charles/MGH station? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Charles/MGH station. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Charles/MGH station), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:01, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]