This is an archive of past discussions about User:Keeper76. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Thank you for your comments in my RFB. Since it was only at 64%, it was a shoo-in to be unsuccessful, so I withdrew. I didn't want it to run until its scheduled close time because my intent in standing for RFB was to help the bureaucrats with their workload, not give them one more RfX to close. Through the course of my RFB, I received some very valuable feedback, some of it was contradictary, but other points were well agreed upon. I have ceased my admin coaching for now to give me time to revamp my method. I don't want to give up coaching completely, but I'm going to find a different angle from which to approach it. As for my RFA Standards, I am going to do some deep intraspection. I wrote those standards six months ago and I will slowly retool them. This will take some time for me to really dig down and express what I want in an admin candidate. If, after some serious time of deep thought, I don't find anything to change in them, I'll leave them the way they are. I'm not going to change them just because of some community disagreement as to what they should be. Will I stand for RFB again in the future? I don't know. Perhaps some time down the road, when my tenure as an administrator is greater than one year, if there is a pressing need for more active bureaucrats, maybe. If there no pressing need, then maybe not. Useight (talk) 03:09, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Ah, a very nice note. I'm looking forward to your continued work here to improve the encyclopedia, and I'm sure if you feel that 'cratship is the route for you, you'll attain it, and if that's the case, I'm looking forward to supporting down the road. A couple of thoughts (take them for what they're worth, I'm a n00b compared to you) about admin coaching and RfA standards. I have also pulled back/away from admin coaching, in a formal sense, and have drifted more towards an idea of Pedro's that you may find interesting if you haven't seen it already, here. Any insights or input you could add there as an experienced editor and admin (even as a left-brained one!) would be invaluable. Also, as you are looking at your RFA standards, you may find it helpful to see what others are doing, mine are here. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer14:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I got told off for the first time, does that mean I'm real now? :)
Wow, he didn't even swear! You need to work harder TCari...on another note, I'm currently working on WP:RREV/Q. Since you are both "new admins", with opinions on RFAs I'm certain, and a fresh perspective, I really really encourage you to get involved in answering Gazimoff's survey if you haven't already. The instructions are on that page I linked for how to answer in your userspace and then link back to the response section. Please do it in the next few weeks if you have time! Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer14:54, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Iridescent, yikes! I'd seen the beginning of that thread somewhere but didn't realize it had exploded. Dare I even ask how it started? I have to say the questions I've been asked have been nice - and I've had fun helping polite users restore and improve an article. I'm earning my silver star. I haven't gotten the vitriol that some have - maybe I don't delete those that the people care enough to get huffy about? Keep, I'll go look at the questions you linked. I'm having fun playing in the backlog again. Mabel Lee was an easy fix. I'd love to know why tagging is so much easier than a quick google search to establish notability? TravellingCarithe Busy Bee15:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
As long as I've got you here, TC, have a looksee at the thread "2 rows up" (FlexLink). What are your thoughts? I ask you because I had userfied something for him a couple of months ago, and I see now that you've username blocked him thereby not allowing him to edit in his userspace (outside his talkpage). I'm not disputing the horrible choice of username, but at the same time, the "article" was borderline (User:FlexLink/Sandbox) Your thoughts? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:08, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I got gently thwapped (trying to find the link now) for not blocking promotional user names "on sight" so now I probably block too soon. If you want to unblock so he can work on it, go ahead, or I'm happy to unblock myself. Let me know. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee15:15, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Let's give him a week to see if he pops up on his usertalk again. If he no shows, he stays blocked. If he (I presume its a he, my bad) so much as says boo, I'll unblock him and help him find the "rename me" department. Some history, the Flexlink article was first created in 2006, but months would go by while their busy at work. Eventually, someone found it, nommed it for speedy G11, I speedied it. Every once in a while, the PR department at FL gets a slow day it seems, and say "hey! we should try out a Wikipedia article at en.wiki" (I'm sure they use that exact language with abbreviations). The ironic thing is though, the company just might be notable, but any sources I tried to find then were non-English, and seems Press release-y at best. But they're kind of niche company at the same time. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:23, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Blech! I scanned it. I remember reading it briefly when you and Gurch were talking about Huggle issues because I was curious what the big deal about Huggle was. Among other issues on en.wiki are language and maturity -- and that includes supposed businessmen acting like 5 year olds so it's not pure ageism. You need a gold star for keeping your sanity but I had to chuckle about Metros' comment about the sigs contributing. I need to find someone to fix mine because I know it's too long. I changed it from my old one after someone who I didn't particularly wish to be associated with copied it (with permission). Keeper, that sounds like a plan. Instead of whack-a-mole, whack a wiki. My favorite so far who really gets it are the two discussions on my talk right now, Astrocom and User:Tomcat66 g500 who took the comments to heart, fixed them and the article is back in main space and User:MichaelKrobinson who understands what he did wrong and is working to fix the article. I'll tutor for days if people are willing to listen. Perhaps I remember when I got slightly bitten as a newbie so I try not to. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee15:42, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I think "I'm comfortable in that arena though, and rather fascinated by watching the level of human, fallible intereaction that happens there while no one is actually even talking" summarises part of the problem of RfA. Too many people love observing human nature (me too)! :-) My answers at User:Giggy/RfA review if you're interested. giggy(:O)15:21, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Heh, I was reading those when you posted here....My favorite was your last answer (basically, "it sucks, good luck with it.") I've made a conscious effort (I fail some days) to not contribute to RFAs beyond my initial opinion of support or oppose, unless I'm directly asked a question. I really need to stop watchlisting them after I'm there. If I write something that really really bothers someone else, I'm pretty sure my talkpage is linked in my signature :-) Life's too short, the eyeopener to me was how many RFAs were in my wannabe kate tool with 6+ edits. Embarassing. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:26, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I spent a few hours this morning answering this: User:Gwynand/RfA_review. I've read both of yours, appreciate you guys giving your insights. I'm glad this whole RfA review thing is getting some legs, although I'm still worried it'll be a massive exercise in futility. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs16:08, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
If it at least makes people think about RFA, and think through how they are going to contribute to it/not contribute to it, then it isn't futile. (Remembering also that if the outcome of the review process is that the RFA process is fine/status quo, then it hasn't been any less productive than if the RFA process ends up overhauled.) My .02. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer16:32, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm looking at Mr. Avruch's contribs now, but I'm going offline before I can do anything. Overall, I'm impressed with his WP:CLUE, although I also know that he likes to stick his fingers in light sockets (controversies). Has probably built a nice set of adversaries at this point. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer01:49, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
I've warned him his Rfa will be Lawrence Cohen remixed. That said, I plan to support because his level of clue far exceeds... well.... mine. :) giggy(:O)01:57, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
After a lot of soul searching, I supported LC's RfA. Different editor, different everything. Tomayto, tomahto. Not the same human. Avruch has a level of sensibility about his edits that is overall, respectable. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer02:00, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Here's a load of cool-down blocks for you! Cool-down blocks somehow promote WikiLove, and also sink RfAs, and hopefully these ones have made your day better and cooler. Spread the WikiLove by giving something friendly to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Make your own message to spread WikiLove to others! Happy editing! Acalamari01:54, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for spending the time on the article! It was on my list, but I hadn't gotten to it yet. I spent some time on it and made it even better. Royalbroil04:04, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
I was surprised that a closing admin would be willing to spend time on writing an article about an auto racer. Most people don't find them rather dull the way that they drive around in circles. I didn't know that you don't do much article expanding. Royalbroil16:47, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
No problem Sam. Go slow, and be careful. I won't stop another admin from taking rollback away if he/she thinks you're using it improperly. Good luck! Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer19:59, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Although I don't approve of 6th graders using language like "shit", I saw your messages to Tanthalas and Maxim. SLOW DOWN. BE CAREFUL. . You just happened to "warn" two users that are easy going. Slow down. Be careful. And watch your language. :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer20:57, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
As people in my class jokingly yell out, LANGUAGE CHECK!!!!! But, when you're scared, the whole "language thing" goes out the window. If I was blocked again, I would be banned. Thanks for sparing me, Sir Keeper. Shapiros10 WuzHere 21:00, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
No reason to be scared. This is Wikipedia, not middle school (although some days, I wonder if there's really any difference... Friday, Iridescent, are you reading this?)... Just don't warn established editors, and admins, about vandalising things. Slow down. Be careful. And don't fucking swear, or I'll remove rollback, rendering huggle useless. Cheers! :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer21:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
This is Wikipedia, not middle school (although some days, I wonder if there's really any difference... same can be said for my office at times :o Happy Friday all! TravellingCarithe Busy Bee21:04, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
All smiles. I going home from work pretty soon here. Work you say Keeper? What, you're an adult? That works? And has a mortgage, and a kid and a wife and a dog? Yes, work. Going home soon, to enjoy my leisurely weekend in the suburbs, maybe mow the lawn, maybe not. Probably have a whole list of responsible things to do courtesy of Mrs. Keeper though... Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer21:07, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
If I make a "honey do" list, it means stuff I have to do -- so I prefer not. I did enough of that at work. So need to pack this weekend, can I tempt anyone into it? Pack for me and I'll gove you a barnstar? Interleague play here, shoud be interesting. Mow? No thanks, "I've got people" and it's one thinkg I'll happily pay people for. Happy weekend all, not that this is going to get seen come Monday morning. Might tell Iridescent that s/he has competition for a talk page s'plosion. :) TravellingCarithe Busy Bee22:55, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Sometimes hard to tell the difference: blocking=suspension. Banning=expulsion. I will "slow down be careful" and not ^&%(%^%$#&*(@&^@$*#@()%$^ swear. Or else. Shapiros10 WuzHere 21:05, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
As long as I have your attention Sam, I would also like to point out to you that your signature is rather "distracting". Wikipedia is about making the encyclopedia better. Vandalism reversion is part of that, and I think you can be really good at that. Adding articles/improving articles is also part of that, and I hope you are intelligent enough to help us out (some 6th graders are and you may be one of them, most 6th graders in my experience as a 6th grade teacher, are blatantly not). Prove me wrong. Change your signature to be less distracting. Use the "basic signature", or at least something less distracting. Ignore what the other "middle schoolers" tell you is important and help build the encyclopedia. Did you know that we've actually promoted some 12-15 year olds to be admins, and even bureaucrats? Be one of those editors. All of them had plain signatures, to start with. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer21:11, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
First off, "Themz adiminez es all bicthez" from your quote page. Not exctly an example? And what do my friends have to do with this? And I know people with much more "distracting" signatures. Look at User:Ryan Taylor's sig history. If it's repulsing you to the point of vomit, I'll change it because I value your opinion. Shapiros10 WuzHere 21:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm not vomiting, but I didn't know til just now that that second grayed-out area said something. It's pretty hard to read. And definitely not pretty. Tan | 3921:15, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
<--Signature is much better. In fact, I would recommend making it even simpler if you want to be taken seriously. Personalized sigs are fine, I use one, as does everyone else that has replied here. But at the same time, you haven't proven yourself yet...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer21:32, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I don't use one. Just thought I'd jump in and say that keeping it simple is best when using a personalized sig; keeps the focus on what is being said rather than who is saying it. Useight (talk) 21:38, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I completely agree. Most good editors, that are conscious of what we are here for, don't. Or if they do, they use a simple one. It seems to be prevalent that only those that are here to draw attention to themselves use INSANELY LARGE SIGNATURES. Sam, if you are still reading this, and if you'd like to be taken seriously, I strongly recommend that you use the basic, non altered signature. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer21:39, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Somebody would have to be really out of line to harass a good faith editor out of Wikipedia soley because of their signature. Useight (talk) 21:45, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I'll think about it. But i think that you're coming off a little bit strong here. I am not creating a signature to be distracting. I am not creating a signature to make "wiki-friends". My Wikipedia career is not focused on this signature. Based on your reply, I will reply to you. Shapiros10Say "Hi"My work21:49, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry you feel I'm coming off "strong". Editors that are serious about making a better encyclopedia don't want to give much time to those that are here to be social. I'm saying this as an administrator that is notorious for being helpful, but also for not contributing a huge amoount to mainspace. Sleep on it, decide what you want to do, and then get back to me. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer21:52, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Ack, I just wanted to jump in and say I had this "signature problem" once before. Remember, Keeper. So I changed to a more simpler one (RyRy5 (talk)). -- RyRy5 (talk) 21:51, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I remember RyRy, that's how I met you in the first place. You've grown leaps and bounds from where we first met, and I consider you to be an asset to Wikipedia. Shapiros/Sam, if you are looking for a good example for how to be a good editor, with the right goal in mind for improving Wikipedia, use RyRy for an example. He's had lots of troubles, but he has learned from all of them and continues to be helpful to building this place. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer21:54, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Keeper. I think that the one point you fail to understand (oh god. I'm telling an adult that they don't understand something, except for the time when my mom asked what "vandalism" was) I am not using my signature for social purposes. I just like making colorful text. And you did come off rough. "Honestly type that sentance or I will ignore you."
You don't stink. The custom sig is minor. I have one, so does RyRy, I really could care less about your signature. What are you doing though to make Wikipedia better/more informative/more reliable/more comprehensive? RyRy has added whole articles. What are you doing? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer21:57, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Rollback - arbitrary section break 1
I think my signature is best; it's understated in a "don't mess with me" kind of a way. :lol: But there are times, Sam, when it's best just to zip up. (I can't believe I just said that, me, of all people!). --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 21:59, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
(What? Like 5 edit conflicts! This is like AN!)Although I appreciate you saying that, but Sam, you can't blame yourself by saying "I stink because I have a custom sig". Most everyone has a custom sig, what make's you any different. We are all equals, but what the problem is, is that everyone has a different experience in editing. -- RyRy5 (talk) 22:01, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, besides obsessing over a signature, creating a sockfarm and getting on your nerves, nothing. Seriously, I am not an article writer. I am a (not so quiet) janitor who makes mistakes that every other non-bot makes. Oh, like the new signature. This proves I'm a bad, obsessive user. Shapiros10 was banned from havinga custom signature by Keeper7622:04, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
That is a very immature response. Some middle schoolers are mature, some are not. Do you want to build Wikipedia, or do you want to pout? I haven't banned you from anything. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer22:06, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
(2x edit conflict) Wow, everyone is make such a big deal over a font choice. Perhaps everyone should take a quick breather. Perhaps peruse the only essay I've ever written. On a side note, Keeper said, "I'm saying this as an administrator that is notorious for being helpful, but also for not contributing a huge amoount to mainspace." I just noticed that your User Talk edit count is about to surpass your Mainspace edit count. Tsk. Tsk. :P Useight (talk) 22:09, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Sorry. But, in another response, you said that i needed the default sig or you would ignore me. That's like banning someone from help. And yes, I've decided to type that sentance if I can remember it. Whatever, I am here to build an encyclopedia, not build a sig. Shapiros10Talk22:09, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
← So many edit conflicts, what I was going to say isn't even relevant anymore. added arbitrary section break - a keeper talk first? xenocidic (talk) 22:10, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I think the bottom line here that Keeper is moving towards is that if you want to be taken seriousley, use the default signature. If not, do something stupid, like putting a link to your religion. Wait...--Koji†Dude(C)22:16, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
First to Useight, I'm rather proud (or at least honest) of my main v. userspace count. Meh. I'm an admin. I don't have time to build the mainspace because everytime I try to add content/refs, I get a freekin orange message bar from someone that wants me to undelete something/explain something/argue something/etc... To Shapiros/sam: Prove it. Prove to me you are here to build an encyclopedia. Show me something, with links, that you've done to improve this place besides reverting vandalism. Do whatever the f*** you want with your signature, that is the least of my concerns. What I see, forgive me for being blunt, is a 12 year old that thknks that wikipedia is a cool place to meet people. When you were blocked, you made socks. I gave you rollback, but I'm starting to wonder about my decision to do so. Are you really here to improve the encyclopedia?????? I'm going offline, right now, see you tomorrow......... Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer22:17, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Indeed. The incessant orange bar will do that to a person. I wasn't trying to accuse you of ignoring the mainspace, (you've got 3000+ edits there), I was just pointing out an interesting tidbit. Useight (talk) 23:54, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Okay. See you when I've created a featured article. No offense sir, you're hard to please. Maybe I might not want you to adopt me. Shapiros10Talk22:31, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
And what am i doing showing that I'll I'm doing is trying to meet people? Prove it. Show me something with links. And you gave me rollback to revert vandalism, what I mainly do! Shapiros10Talk22:33, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
snort* I ♥ Acalamari's "block" notice. I think if we had that in connection with someone I saw earlier who's blocking period was "cow" the world would end. Truly. Love it. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee01:21, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
OK, I know I said I was offline, but I'm not. :-) .. Shapiros/Sam, I like your new signature. Simple, unassuming, and plain. It proves to me at least that you're serious about helping Wikipedia. I'm looking forward to your featured article (and I never ever said I was going to "adopt" you.) Once you have a featured article, I'll be the first to grant you a barnstar, a silver medal, and an apology. I'm actually really easy to please, you think I'm not, but you are entitled to your opinion. That said, Giggy, you're not helping (but I did get a good laugh). Everyone else - go find something to do! :-) !!!! ---- Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer01:24, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
bah, I've been engaged in important adminly business all night! i even went so far as to modify some javascript! take that! xenocidic (talk) 01:30, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
My gods, yes - 25 minutes before you asked me to, in fact! =] it won't show up until there's an outstanding request, if you like, you can make a fake one to test it out. ;> xenocidic (talk) 01:45, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Ugliest park?!?!?! Ugliest park!?!?!? I'll have you know that a relative of mine (no kidding!) is the head grounds keeper of minute maid park. Head grounds keeper. He decides everything as far as appearances go, and he does a damn fine job. I don't like the Astros, never will, but damn, my cousin knows how to mow the grass....Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer01:36, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
I was speaking architecturally. It's too modern. Looks like a space station, not a baseball stadium. Almost as strange as Kansai International Airport and Kyoto Station. Also New Museum of Contemporary Art. Can you tell I'm not a fan of modern. The grass is beautiful, I assure you... and your cousin. Oh and your edit summ scared the bejebus out of me. Was wondering what I'd done :o —Preceding unsigned comment added by Travellingcari (talk • contribs)
Take a read of Wikipedia:Free speech. Because Wikipedia is a private website, there is no right to freedom of speech. Sorry you feel that the only way to express yourself is through signatures, Metros (talk) 12:04, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Okay Mr. Keeper. I have changed my signature not to include a "say hi". that might've been seen from an experienced wikipedian's point of view as social. If there are any more objections, take it up with my adopter LaraLove. Shapiros10contact meMy work17:39, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
O, hai. I changed my sig a day or so ago... good timing, good times. So check it, mad love to Keeper for convincing Sharpiros to change that previous sig. That was going to be my first thing with the adoption. As for Best Sig Evar! I choose Ryan Postlethwaite's when he had it huge, rainbow-colored and flashing. That was epic. LaraLove|Talk18:06, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm old, but not that old:-) I did read this, a couple of days ago. I didn't think you necessarily required a response though. I disagreed with you in some places, agreed with you in others, and overall thought your answers were just fine. (If I had a big problem with any of them, don't you think I woulda bugged you about it? :-) Cheers, going away til tomorrow...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer01:26, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
My quote page is part of the encyclopedia that anyone can edit. Feel free to add it. Keep in mind though that this is also the encylopedia that anyone can revert. And then revert/warn/revert/warn2/revert/warn3/revert/warn4/revert/AIV/revert/block editor indef...:-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer01:29, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Nice. :) I have often had something similar to that go through my mind when I revert foolsvandals who add "Don't trust Wikipedia cuz anyone can changa evertyhing, like I jus did heer" to pages.
Also, while I know that "[By clicking submit,] you agree to license your contributions under the GFDL", I tend to view userspace (other than their talk page, which is fair game <thunderous evil laughter/>) as the sacred property of the user in question. Setting foot on that sacred place (for any reason other than reverting vandalism) without great deference (especially to an admin...) is approximately equivilent to begging for a slow and painful death. (or at least an indef-block — There goes 50000 contribs *sigh* :P ) J.delanoygabsadds01:46, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
P.S. Not really, but I still don't like editing other people's user pages.
I think it's rather funny if I'm being honest. Of course, I obviously canvassed all those fine folks with my non-email, non-IRC self. :-) I can't stop someone from saying "per nom", I've done it myself. The 'crats can weight them as much or as little as they'd like. The only reason it's a good nom is because its a good candidate that I'm rather enthusiastic about and found no issues with (I clicked on nearly every diff, including n00b edits). Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:08, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
I'll also add that everyone that is opposing or neutral has said "per Giggy". Support per keeper. Oppose per Giggy. Great fun! I honestly hope it doesn't bother you, it certainly doesn't bother me. Life/short | encyclopedia/lacking... Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer16:01, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Nah, my point was (and this is a general RfA thing, not specific to you) people supporting just because of who the nominator is. As opposed to the candidate's merits. giggy(:O)01:50, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
If the nominator has already pointed out the candidate's merits in a way that is agreeable to your own opinion of "what makes a good admin", then what's inherently wrong with "per nom"? I think it could be better worded though, to avoid the drama. It should be "Per the nominator's statement and research", not "per nominator, who never makes mistakes". That I agree. I hope you didn't take my poke there as accusational, I respect your opinion (at least, on that RfA I respect your opinion :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer01:31, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
problem is the company is brazilian, and therefore not known by the administrators (understandably)
however, some of the sources cited (FOLHA DE SÂO PAULO for example) are VERY known newspapers in Brazil
that means that the company DOES have notability
I´d suggest just editing maybe some parts like "At the end of 2007 the company opened its first physical store and started a franchise system", which is kinda pointless
Thank you for your message. I guess I'm not too sure why you are posting it here on my talkpage, the only thing that I did at the deletion debate was relist it. I can certainly help you out though, and for your convenience, I will copy and paste your message that you've left here to the debate. Feel free to edit the debate directly from now on if you wish. I will post this entire message on your talkpage as well. Cheers, happy editing, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer00:43, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
RFA recommendation
Hi, Keeper76, I come to bring recommendations for RFA because you seem to be active in recruiting qualified candidates. I dont' know any procedure regarding the nomination, but I think The Evil Spartan (talk·contribs) could be a good admin. Kintetsubuffalo (talk·contribs) and CaliforniaAliBaba (talk·contribs) are also possible candidate who're working for Japan or Korea or other East Asia related articles, and they are editing from neutral point of view. But they seem to be inactive these days, but can you look at their contributions and judge whether all three are qualified for RFA? If you take a look at them, I would very appreciate that. Thanks.--Caspian blue (talk) 00:31, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi Caspian, I'm afraid I won't have time to look for 12-24 hours, but I appreciate you thinking of me. I've recently added a small note on the bottom of my "RFA" page, located here. Generally, I like to search out a candidate myself, and have decried that if someone asks me for a nomination, I'll most certainly say "No thanks" in as polite of words as I can muster, especially if I'm personally unfamiliar with the candidate. That said, I have seen "The Evil Spartan" around, and have a generally good vibe about him. I've never heard of/worked with that I recall Kintetsbuffalo (although it is an excellent username) or CaliforniaAliBaba, so I would likely not nominate either of them. That doesn't mean they are bad candidates or that I wouldn't support a nomination, I just feel that a nominator should have a least a passing knowledge, or past experience with a candidate. I'll do some research in the AM about TES though, as I have heard of him at least, and see. I did notice on his talkpage that you are already discussing this with him, I'll watchlist that discussion to see how he answers your most recent question. Cheers, have a nice evening, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer00:55, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
GEO
Ha, I was just writing up a decline for the GeodeSilva (or whatever) csd when you popped in and did it first. GET OUT OF MY HEAD Tan | 3902:04, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
On hold: This article is currently awaiting improvements before pass/fail.
I have carried out an assessment of this talkpage as per the criteria at WP:Poor Talkpage Candidates. While this page generally meets the Poor Talkpage Criteria, there are certain issues that need to be addressed before I would feel comfortable passing it:
Accusation of ageism?
Accusation of picking on user due to their custom sig?
Accusation of misuse of admin tools?
Faint insinuations that you're somehow part of a conspiracy?
At least three posts about you in ALL CAPS to WP:ANI?
So many different fonts used in a single section thanks to all the signatures that it crashes the page's cascading style sheet?
"If this continues I will remove your access to Huggle"?
"If this continues I will remove your access to rollback"?
"If this continues I will remove your access to Twinkle"?
"If this continues I will have no alternative but to block you"?
At least one person referring to a conversation that took place on another page over two weeks ago, with no link to said conversation, expecting you to know what they're talking about?
At least one conversation involving six or more editors, at least three of which are arguing over a petty point of trivia?
All of the elements currently lacking are fairly easily addressed, and overall the general quality of this talkpage is easily poor enough to meet Wikipedia's standards. If the issues raised above are addressed within a week of this review, I will have no hesitation in passing this as a Poor Quality Talkpage. If you are having trouble in raising the number of flames on this page, you may wish to consider asking some of the editors posting here or here to assist. – iridescent14:26, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Damn, I thought fer shur I'd pass. Iridescent was obviously canvassed behind my back to fail my PTA. It's all a conspiracy. I should get points for stifling someone's free speech. Apparently I did that yesterday by asking them to change their signature. Here's hoping he brings it all the wayTO THE TOP! Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:21, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Procedural oppose - reviewer failed to ignore the guidelines posted at Poor Talk Page Assesment, particularly criertion 1.c, 4.d and 22.lima/pappa/foxtrot/fiveGazimoffWriteRead16:25, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Heh, I just about hit undo for vandalism, thought I should first check the history...and reading above, I'm pretty sure it's been "EONS" since you've been called an SPA..hee. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer00:50, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Well two problems here. One, I'm no kid (but I did enjoy father's day today with me son and me old man). Two, I "grue up" in a technophobic house. Never heard of Zork. Me folks still have never owned a computer, and only recently figgered out the DVD player I bought them, what with the "magic disks" and all...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer01:03, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Happy Fathers' Day, Keep. As for the kiddy detector. I'm *barely* under 30 and I know that message well. I'm good with computers but TVs, tivos and DVRs scare me. What magic discs? :) TravellingCarithe Busy Bee01:33, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Ah, "barely under 30". I remember those days like they were _______ years ago....back when I was asked for identification to purchase my vices, instead of offered the senior discount on liquor....Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer01:35, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
I got IDed for Barq's rootbeer last weekend. Root Beer! Took me 10 minutes to explain to the clerk why my lack of ID shouldn't have mattered. Yes it's a silver can but is reading totally optional in training courses these days? TravellingCarithe Busy Bee02:06, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
To be fair to the cashier, Barq's is the only rootbeer in mass US market production that is caffeinated. You musta been looking kinda jittery and shifty-eyed...:-) I was carded once a few years back for lottery tickets. I was appalled. My basic comment was "Ok, you wanna see my id, but I can take my dollar bill, walk over to the unsupervised, self-serve lottery ticket vending machine right over there, and buy a "scratch ticket", but you won't sell me a powerball?" Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer14:30, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Didn't know that re: Barq's. Lotto has always befuddled me. I never once got IDed for cigs until well after I was 18. I did get IDed for an R-rated movie when I was ~20. I didn't have ID because I'd gone with my family and wasn't paying. Was so lame. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee16:04, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
(to Keeper) Some places force their employees to embarrass themselves by asking people who are clearly of age for ID. I'm 18, and I work at a grocery store. They make us ID everyone who buys beer. (not root beer, thank God) If you don't, and they catch you, you get just one warning... I once ID-ed someone who was born in 1918, and the computer thought I was lying, so it wouldn't take it. What a pain. J.delanoygabsadds16:11, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
I've put many shops out of business for selling alcohol or knives to minors; once you've seenit happen once I imagine you're more careful from then on. Was the shopkeeper who asked for rootbeer ID a recent immigrant? Remember, rootbeer doesn't exist outside the US so if they saw the "beer" on the label, they'd jump to conclusions. – iridescent16:32, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
I've lived overseas so I don't always hear accents but if memory serves me right, there was none. Plus this is a busy NYC grocery kiosk so it should not have been a novel sale. FWIW, rootbeer exists in Japan -- it's Australia and Europe that are lacking, something I noticed all too often while there. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee16:35, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
I can picture TC in a back alley, somewhere in the heart of London, saying "come on, man, just give me the 6 pack. You know I'm good for it. I'll pay you back I swear - I need my A-dubs!" Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer16:40, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
There are three shops in England that sell root beer & Mountain Dew on a regular basis (aside from on the bases); Cybercandy in central London, Panzer's Deli near Abbey Road Studios, and a shop in Chester for some reason. And yes, people do make special trips for them (and Cheerios, the other part of the holy trinity of American Things You Can't Buy in Europe). The European MD is different to the US version (which is still technically illegal here). – iridescent16:48, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
I rather like Dad's although it's not easy to find, with Barq's a close second. A&W is my old-time favorite but I don't like the new "recipe" for lack of a better word. Mountain Dew I can "dew" without, but I missed Dr. Pepper while overseas. And I miss Diet Fanta, which I've never found here in New York or Apple Soda, which I only found in Japan. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee16:59, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
If you wanna try something a bit different, try Jones Soda's "Crushed Melon". It's hard to come by (even where they sell Jones en masse, they don't carry the "canteloupe flavored soda". But it's extrememly good. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer17:06, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Section break
There should be barnstars given out for excessive posting to Keeper's talk. I have more edits to this talk page than any other user talk besides my own. Oh, and it's my birthday! Woohooo! Enigmamessage17:22, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Beats me. I heard an explanation that supposedly the editors offering money to bring things to featured status aren't necessarily biased, whereas a company paying MyWikiBiz is definitely biased. I would not care to try to explain the distinctions, because I don't understand them fully myself. On another note, my father travels a lot. Keep, guess what state he's in this week? Enigmamessage17:35, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
I've sorted my talkpage by editor on this list, If you are in the double digits (>10), (45 of you) you are a talkpage stalker. If you are above 40 (egads, there are 17 of you), you need to reflect a bit on your purpose here...If you are in the triple digits (>100), you need a therapist. Congratulations to Dusti, the only one so far to break WP:200, (at least, until TCari replies to this, and she will :-) she's at 199...) That all said, and with this many contributors across so many continents/time zones, I fully expect this page to reach featured status shortly...as long as Iridescent doesn't turn the cabal that is perfectly under Iridescent's complete control against me, thus failing my nomination above...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer17:43, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
(e/cX2) Who's that disreputable editor Keeper76 in the list? That person really needs a therapist for stalking you as avidly as it appears they do. DDStretch (talk)17:56, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Careful there DD, you're closing in on double digits :-). I've tried to shake that Keeper guy for months, I finally gave up. He is relentless and has worn me down into a babbling, quivering, spineless mass... Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer17:58, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
For all your largely unsung efforts to turn Wikipedia into Myspace by such subtly little steps that nobody really notices until it's too late, the Barnstar of Social Networking is hereby awarded to everyone on this page. Now, all of you go out and welcome 100 vandals good faith new users! (I have a horrible feeling I'm going to start seeing this barnstar on pages for real, now) – iridescent18:00, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
So Keeper, does that mean that I get a prize? "I would like to thank the Wikipedia foundation......" Already working on my speech. :) DustiSPEAK!!18:17, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
*Sigh* Who mentioned this tool? Whoever it was, thanks so much for wasting another few hours of my evening spent playing with this... ;)Alex Muller18:20, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Hee hee. So we go from a "Poor Talkpage Assessment" to root beer to playing around with one of Daniel's toys. I love this page.
So Iridescent, am I a troll, vandal, or loon? Or am I all three? ;) (I have twice as many posts on your talk page as some of the people I think you would classify as a troll and/or a loon) J.delanoygabsadds18:31, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
If you're not a troll, vandal or loon, I guess you must be a bot.
Neutral Nominator once said something to me - and it wasn't a notification that I had been indef-blocked...... but he also has a fancy sig[dubious – discuss], so I can't possibly support. J.delanoygabsadds18:59, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
I don't think I'll ever get tired of that sound clip. Like a the soundtrack from a modern-day updating of In the Mouth of Madness. – iridescent22:26, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
The irony of course being that I had no problem listening to the soundclip on my corporate computer (Ok, I had a problem personally, but no firewall problem), but I'm not allowed to view the accompanying article, which is blocked as "pornography". I can see ridiculously bad images, and listen to ridiculously bad soundfiles, but I can't actually read/improve the articles. It's only a matter of time before the corporate IT-wonks catch on and block all of Wikipedia...que sera. If Keeper ever goes silent for more than a day or two, you'll know what happened...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer22:52, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Be careful what you say! You've got a paranoid stalking this page. Now you've got me boarding up my windows and locking my doors. I hope that you are statisfied. --Koji†Dude(C)23:16, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Did you see there was an RfA page (although never transcluded) and deleted by Balloonman on May 16 at request? Point of interest. Enigmamessage00:53, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
(3/c)Saw it yes. Dont' care. Moni is already an admin, only she doesn't have access to the extra tools. The nom should never have been "withdrawn/deleted", because it woulda passed. Meh, it's up to Moni at this point I suppose. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer00:59, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Actually, I ran mine right after his went down in flames on purpose. I figured everyone was sick of drama and would just stick to the basics. Tan | 3901:07, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Took a look. Fix me where I've got this wrong: You reverted "vandalism", templated someone for it on a talkpage. The reversion you did was apparently not vandalism, and has been re-reverted, and someone templated you for your incorrect use of a template, to which you cited "WP:AGF and don't template me. The blanking of the page was explained as proper (usually it is vandalism, in this case it wasn't, and I agree that an edit summary woulda cleared the whole thing up). Did I miss anything? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer21:08, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
And you do realize what the last line of the essay that you've cited is right? It reads:
"Having said this [don't template the regulars], those [regulars] who receive a template message should not assume bad faith regarding the user of said template. They may not be aware how familiar the user is with policy, or may not consider it rude themselves. They may also simply be trying to save time by avoiding writing out a lengthy message that basically says the same thing as the template, which is, after all, the purpose of a template" Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer21:11, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
And re to both of you - I'm sure you know already but it always bears repeating: WP:DTTR (along with WP:ATA, WP:MOS, WP:DENY, WP:FAIRUSE and many other bits of ALLCAPS that get thrown around all the time) is not a policy. WP:DTTR in particular isn't even a guideline, just a personal essay with no more policy significance than WP:TTR. – iridescent21:22, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Eman, you do realize you've cited the same thing as Iridescent :-)? I hate templates. Rarely use them outside of clearcut blockwarnings/vandwarnings, maybe a welcome tag once and a while (you know, to get a barnstar "someday"). I much prefer manual typing. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer21:26, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Did not! Originally, Iridescent linked to the redlinked essay which used to contain Giggy's version of it. Seeing the redlink, I added a link to a different, yet similar essay. Enigmamessage21:28, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
There's no battle. I would recommend though Dusti taking a second to apologize to Udonknome, you came off rather harsh. It's the right thing to do (and I'm pretty sure it's the last thing in the world you want to do, which should serve as proof that it's the right thing to do). And E-Man, Iridescent typed WP:TTR, which is an 8 month old redirect to DESeigel's essay that you linked. So, to end the battle of wits victoriously, Did too!!!. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer21:32, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
dammit. Stoopid page history. Fine, you win. Just when I was starting to believe Iridescent when he insisted that he was infallible....Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer21:43, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi there. I have seen you around as well, though never interacted with you to my knowledge (which is dubious). I'm actually a bit surprised that you've seen me around, since I tend to stick to the FAC page and the few articles I edit. I always think I'm transparent... An RfA for me was bandied about a few weeks ago. Since then I've been watching the ANI page and trying to think how I could assist. I would only take an admin position if I could help the quality of articles. Right now, I write and improve ones I find interesting and review others that editors have worked on. I wouldn't stop writing and reviewing them, but I think there must be something admins do that I can't see. I would like to be able to point out exactly what I might do as an admin, but I am as yet unable to say, "That's what I would do". Otherwise, if I'm doing everything I can within my wikipowers to improve articles, I would still continue doing that. At any rate, Balloonman investigated my edit history and gave me his expert analysis. You should ask him his thoughts on it. Thanks for your interest, though. --Moni3 (talk) 01:01, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi there Moni, I think Balloonman's talkpage/contribs is where I first saw your name (I'm a stalker of course :-). There are lots of things that "admins" can do/see that "editors" cannot; the easiest example being "deleted pages". The fact that I, one of the most incompetent article writers, can see deleted pages, becausse by some fluke I passed an RfA, and you as a content writer haven't, is a disgrace. If you want to be an admin, I'll nominate you, and you'll pass. Keep in mind though, that you'll get opposes too, and they are stressful. As long as you keep your composure, and let your editing/contributions speak for themselves, you'll pass. I knew that when Balloonman (who is even more careful about nominations than I am) offered to nominate you. If you want the buttons, let me know. If you don't, let me know. What I will say, as an admin, is that the buttons are rather ridiculous in their triviality. They cause more problems than they solve, and lead to more drama than they cure. That said, Wikipedia needs more admins if only for page moves, redirects, and blocking socks. Moni, if you want it, I'll nominate. If you don't I won't. I'll watchlist your talkpage even though I fully expect that you'll reply here. Cheers, and happy editing, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer01:09, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
<serious mode>I'd suggest looking at the nom I wrote for Karanacs, as pretty much everything I said applies to you too. There are admin fields that don't involve RBI vandalblocking and thankless deletion — aside from a spike when I was beta-testing Huggle, I average only one or two blocks a month — and there are lots of times it comes in handy (there's more use in being able to restore deleted revisions than you'd think, for starters). Don't approach it as "Do I want to spend all my time protecting and unprotecting pages and having my talkpage mysteriously double in size when I'm asleep each night" — look through Wikipedia:Administrators/Tools and ask yourself "is there anything there that would potentially be useful in doing what I do anyway".</serious> – iridescent01:12, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Further point to the pair of you — after Recent Unfortunate Developments, Balloonman may not want to nominate anyone (although I think a joint Giggy/Balloonman nom would work well). I won't offer myself as I'm not particularly familiar with you, but you could do a lot worse than Keeper as a nom. – iridescent01:15, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, Irid for your perspective. B-man made one error, but other than that, his nominations have been stellar, and I would hope that any future noms from him are considered on their own merits outside of the "mistake" he made at DHMO#3. Moni, let me know if/when you want a nom. You are a terrific editor, dedicated to Wikipedia. The extra tools are no biggie, they are rather silly in all honesty, and I personally think you've been here long enough/contributed enough to be able to do the things that I've personally been able to do since January. I don't have email enabled, I don't do IRC (which I find to be evil incarnate), so you'll have to post to my/your talkpage publicly. You'll pass RfA. I wouldn't say so unless I was confident in my typing, and I have an excellent track record as a nominator. I'm going offline here any second, I look forward to your reply in the AM...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer01:38, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
(edit conflict) [sigh] She's not going to accept, let's face it. My only nomination for adminship was rejected by Moni because she though she didn't have enough contributions in the admin-related areas. I'd be happy to do a co nom, and I know she would pass, but will she attempt? It has the potential for a WP:100. I'm an Editorofthewiki[citation needed]01:51, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
I agree wholeheartedly that Moni will pass. Whether she accepts the hell that is RFa is another question, because it is hell. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer01:53, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps this is not an admirable trait in an admin, though I think more people in general could use it: I tend to ponder things before making quick decisions. I watch a lot and make up my own mind without being unduly influenced by popular opinion. It's tempting to enter the love fest that my RfA would seem to warrant, but I watch the RfA pages as well. I see that they're often unnecessarily brutal, and I see the drama on the ANI page. That's not something I want to immerse myself in. I edit Wikipedia to pursue my interests and feed my passions. To become involved in disagreements that are truly more drama than they are worth would drain me, and this would cease to be interesting. I appreciate your consideration for sure, Keeper. I did tell Balloonman and SandyGeorgia, however, that as soon as I thought I could answer the question, "What do you plan to do with the tools", I would let them know. --Moni3 (talk) 02:01, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
That sums up much of my feelings, Moni. I find myself much more comfortable at AN and ANI than I currently do at RfA. ANI, despite the drama, really seems to be working... there is a method to its madness and I see day after day problems getting solved there, even if the occasional thread turns into a massive morass. Watching RfAs the last few months, I think I could pass if unqualified, or fail even if I am qualified, based totally on various whims, momentum, etc. Very little to do with reviewing me, and that concerns me. Moni, the way you handle yourself indicates something beyond becoming an admin... perhaps that ultimate realization that you can do more and be happier without it. A novel idea indeed. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs14:02, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
<--Yeah, what he said. If you want it, get it. If you don't, don't. True IRL, and true on-wiki. RFA is like hellweek, but once you get past it, the extra buttons may prove to be valuable. If you are enjoying Wikipedia for what it is and what you contribute and don't feel that the buttons will make your work more enjoyable/easier/more fruitful, then I'll refuse to nominate or support your nomination. That said, if you ever need any "admin work" done, please know that you have my buttons when you need them, just let me know what you need done and where. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer14:06, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Exactly... the other point is that the buttons may indeed be quite useful, enabling an editor to help the project more. Might very well be worth going through RfA... my ultimate dilemma. I have to say, I generally find problems in nominations where the candidate finds the need to make the point that they don't know why they are there, or are unconvinced they need/want adminship. However, I think many editors go through that state before running... some make it out and realize they need the tools, others don't. I think its important to know exactly why you are entering--as Keeper calls it-- Hell Week, before entering. Done right, it actually should be a good amount of work for the community to review someone, they should know why they are there and confident in being there. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs14:11, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
The idea that you can do more and be happier without being an admin is certainly one that I've come to terms with. I think that Moni3 has been very sensible, and her criterion for accepting a nomination – what do I plan to do with the tools – is beyond sensible. Hopefully with further unbundling of the anally retentive administrator tools more good editors will be able to do even more than they can now.--Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 14:15, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
I didn't know that tools could be anally retentive...:-) I'm sure what you meant there, Mr. GA reviewer, is "unbundling the tools that are firmly in the grasp of anally retentive administrators that would have you pry them out of their cold, dead hands". I would support a proper unbundling so the real editors don't have to bother with us silly ones when then need to get something moved/protected/deleted. Sigh, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer14:20, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
I suppose I have to concede that tools can't be anally retentive, fair enough. What I meant to say was that the present set of administrator tools looks like it was designed by an anally retentive monkey. Better? :-) --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 14:31, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Your point about hellweek is well-taken. I wonder if it's something that should change. Because it can be comparable to hazing, it rather has the same effect, doesn't it? People who should see the job for what it is: a sideline to make the site neater and to clear out the riffraff of vandals and drama queens, actually see it as a challenge to get through the hazing process. Rather like getting married for the wedding instead of for the lifelong responsibility and commitment. So instead of screening out the drama queens, as I posted recently on someone's talk page (maybe mine, I can't remember) after watching the ANI page, I can't decide if I'm needed or horrified. And much like hazing, those who are accepted embrace and reinforce that culture. I see a lot of comments about needing more sensible admins. Maybe it needs a shake-up. --Moni3 (talk) 14:40, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Well said. You certainly have the thoughtfulness needed to be a "good" admin. :-) There is currently an "Rfa review" happening here to see if/what needs shakin. Right now, it's in the question phase, you can see the survey here, feel free to add your input! Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:07, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Somewhere in the mess of posts following RFA/DHMO3, I posted somewhere that the "hazing" element to RFA isn't necessarily a bad thing; the current process acts as a kind of LD50 testing of prospective admins' tempers. If a prospective admin loses their temper at fruitloopery like this (and yes, that was a genuine RFA comment), chances are they'll also lose their temper when they find this kind of inanity cluttering their talkpage every morning, or the rambling explanations on WR of how they've "proved" you to be a sockpuppet of whoever their current Aunt Sally is. – iridescent17:59, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh, that group of editors. I had to step away from trying to help them myself. I started reading that thread and just had to stop. Good luck with that, Irid. Just to add here, as a tack on, and probably one of the lesser considerate things I'll say... the whole program of "adoption" on wikipedia is so backwards and silly that on the whole I'd say it hurts the project more than it helps. Semi-related to that group, I guess. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs18:05, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
You beat me to the block button though, I hit "block user" and got the "but he's already blocked, silly" red message bar...:-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer17:04, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Here ya go. Recommend going offline, stop by in the morning. I think you bit off too much - two new adoptees coming off unblock, article building that is being "worked out" with TCari, AfD stuff, answering several ANI posts, asking about checkuser status....rein it in Dusti, you're spreadin' yourself out too much and you're gonna burn up...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer21:47, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
For once (*sticking tongue out*) Keeper's talking sense. Wikipedia is a black hole that will ultimately destroy you if you take what happens here too seriously. Sure, some of it's important, but none of it it's that important. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 22:20, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
I've reigned in. Checkuser was just an inquiry, both adoptee's I think will work out fine, article building is slow, but ok....AFD (havent checked yet, on my list), and ANI, well, I need to start talking there anyway. I just need to do this in smaller doses, rather than a few hours at a time. DustiSPEAK!!22:46, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Again in serious mode - try to avoid AN & ANI unless you've a reason to go there. Since they tend to attract some of our more controversial administrators, coupled with the fact that at least 50% of the people posting there are complaining about something or other so are in a foul mood, things that would be settled with a friendly chat someplace else tend to flare up into long rambling flamewars on the noticeboards. If you've an issue to raise, then fine, post it there; otherwise, whatever you're about to reply, give it half an hour or so before replying. There's a very good chance that someone else will make whatever point you were going to make; if not, half an hour doesn't make a difference, but if they do then it means they're the ones whose talkpage fills with abuse for the next week. Plus, whatever you post there you're disagreeing with someone, and there's a reasonable chance they spend the next month stalking you. Cynical, but true. – iridescent22:59, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
You have fulfilled the edit request despite the fact that there was no consensus in just two hours after it was filed. After you did it three more disagreements emerged. You will probably want to be more careful with using administration tools or you could rethink.--Avala (talk) 23:39, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Well good morning! Aren't you pleasant. You've proved to me in three sentences why that article is fully protected. I'll visit there next to see if I should be undoing what I did. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer13:22, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
Now that he's (almost) an admin, how 'bout some fun?
Tan has !requested that we help improve his userspace by adding an "appropriate" caption to the picture in the upper right corner of his userpage. Please help Tan become a better editor, by offering suggestions here for his consideration, (keeping in mind that he'll be an administrator within hours, and will likely go block-crazy, batshit-insane with power, mouth foaming, and will be forgiven at ANI for his indef blocks under the banner of "it's my first day")
"What do you mean, handcheck?"
"Get the fuck off the outside of my car dude!"
"If you're taking that picture, which one of us is driving?"
"Tan, making a tearful return to the place he was conceived".
"Here I am, in the back of a cab on my way to Dulles Airport for a five hour flight. I am hungover as hell. I might puke all over this nice dress shirt. I bet all my coworkers totally noticed me and two other partners-in-crime were still drunk at the meeting this morning." Wait, these are supposed to be jokes?
"Of course I care about your problems. I am after all, an admin".
Ya know, the best thing about being an admin isn't the "power" (ha, power) or even the use of the tools. It's not being some part of higher tier - that's a fallacy for sure. It's not having to act like a goddamn fairy anymore ;-) Tan | 3922:58, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
I got a "new message" bar for this. Do you know how fucking long it took me to find this message? How 'bout using the "edit this section" buttons to the right instead of the "edit this page" on the top. Sheesh. Fairy. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer23:02, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
I never use the "edit section" thing, maybe I should. I honestly thought you usually read the diffs. Anyway, I'm mostly joking, in the fact that I'll always have Wiki's best interests as my #1 priority and won't let you down. However, it means that I don't have to "be good" and please everyone simply so I can pass an RfA. This isn't a commentary on my actions; it's a commentary on how silly some opposes can be. But we already know this, right? Tan | 3923:08, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Wow, so true. It applies the entire time, and especially when you're at the RfA. People can smear you, make bad faith opposes, etc. and you're not supposed to say a word. Enigmamessage03:00, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
I knew what you meant. My "you best be joking" was joking as well. And you should use the edit section thing, at least, on talkpages that are f-ing ridiculously convolutedly long. I read the diff, but I wanted the context for it, so I was searching for it on the actual page. And doing an IE search for "Tanthalas" came up zilch because you sign "tan". And searching "tan" brought up too many. Sigh, I know you're not going rogue. And to top it off, I'm absolutely thrilled that Shapiros has decided that the addition that you made above is the most appropriate addition. Had a good laugh at that too. :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer23:12, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
(ec)Found this one yet! Do like James F and have subpages by topic to your talk page, it'll keep the yellow bars down. MBisanztalk23:09, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
The yellow bars have become like a fetish though. I can't live without them, they are my secret pleasure....no subpages for keeper! Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer23:14, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Oops, wasn't. Oh well, I've e-mailed and the issue is out there. I just didn't want to blow it up on either talk page without having a discussion first. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee14:12, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
Ouch! Why'd you poke me? I'm tellin' mom....With a title like "bureacracy at its finest", I was holding my breath expecting the worst...whew. It's about content! How refreshing! I agree with Commandante - those need some massive pruning/deleting, especially the "unnamed characters". How silly for standalone articles, and completely implausible search terms. The "Catch-22" in all of this is that anyone who hasn't read the book won't find them notable, and anyone who has, because it is a fantastic book, will argue that they are all notable. I don't think a mass AFD is the way to go, too pointy. I think BOLDNESS is the way to go, with a dash of IAR. Before deleting anything though, because it is such a prolificly available and popular book, there are no doubt countless reviews/dissections—probably graduate papers, on the book and the characters. If a few sources can fix the WP:OR problem, perhaps they can be salvaged? I'm talking about the "named characters", not the ridiculous maids and whores and whore's sisters...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer13:44, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
you may have noticed me poking around in User:Keeper76/Rollback, if you don't mind, I'd like to just start subst'ing your template rather than having to pilfer it. so, all you have to do is start substing it rather than transcluding it. ( {{subst:User:Keeper76/Rollback}} ). Transcluding it isn't a good idea anyways, as you see users try to thank you by editing the template. p.s. it auto-signs now. seen? xenocidic (talk) 19:57, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
Genius. Thanks Xeno, I'll update my freqtemps, actually it's been on my list of things to "repair", I knew transclusion wasn't ideal, but I was originally copy/pasting... :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer20:36, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
yea, I may just pilfer it, but now I can just transclude it from your page by typing {{subst:User:Keeper76/Rollback|Xenocidic}} (a bit of a mouthful, but I'm trying to keep my subpages to a minimum - may just pilfer it into a top level template or something) I usually get beaten to granting rollback anyways. xenocidic (talk) 20:49, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
I easyfy'd it - {{subst:rfr/granted|Username (optional)}}. Feel free to rollback the changes I made to yours, though it's not necessary. xenocidic (talk) 20:56, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
Would you mind keeping an eye on me here? Directly relates to how I might act were I given the tools, thought I'd like review by Keeper (and the rest of the crew if they'd like). Gwynand | Talk•Contribs13:40, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Appreciated, though I'm still confused as to why the 3 edits that RS1900 made this week would constitute a week long block, or a block at all, for that matter. They were not the obvious disruption of a troll or even close, just evidence of a misguided user trying to figure things out. Then length of time between queries (weeks at a time), makes it hard in my mind to argue any kind of real disruption being caused and I didn't see the block as helpful. I've stated my response to Gwernol on the page, thanks for jumping in there and commenting. For the record, I wouldn't have overturned the block, but I still would look for further explanation on the noticeboard of such a block. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs14:33, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
It looks like Gwernol is open to a shortening of the block, I'm waiting for one or two more commenters before I do it. I agree, it seems like it's someone that is misunderstood more than simply disruptive (as evidenced by the sporadic nature of his requests). But if he ain't gettin' it, he ain't gettin' it, and having to even weekly tell him "um, no" is a waste of time/energy/resources when there are legitimate block/unblock requests, severe backlogs, etc. I'll shorten it after another agreeable response or two because I agree with you that a week is perhaps a bit long (seeing as he only edits weekly anyway...). I'll keep an eye on it. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer14:38, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Not sure why I got riled up there... I'm usually the last to get involved defending problem accounts, always seems to be a futile path. Today is due date... nothing yet. I'm getting antsy. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs14:50, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
If it makes you feel any better, you certainly handled yourself with composure and tact. I've seen those "types" of threads get really ugly, twas not the case this time in large part because of your well worded questions/concerns. Also, my sister-in-law went into labor this morning. When you are off and running to the hospital, ping me, I'll throw a "wikibreak" template on your talk/user if you want. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer14:53, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh, good, thanks, I was thinking about that. I'll shoot you a message here to do so. Just waiting for my wife to call, twiddling my thumbs, helping "the project". :) Gwynand | Talk•Contribs15:06, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
There isn't really a "policy" that I'm aware of, but generally the 'crats will add the closing template when they are closing it. I've seen RFAs go 3 or 4 hours past the "scheduled end time" because a crat wasn't around. Until a crat looks at it, the !vote should count, but it's probably a moot point, as far as I remember that one really has no chance of passing with or without the last opinion given. And you do realize the "closing" template is for XfDs? They have a different template for "closed RFAs" that make the RFa turn yellow to heed off new !votes. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer18:18, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
All smiles. If that had sat a bit longer, I would surmise that some drama-monger would say "why is an admin or another editor" closing this! Unfair! I want a 'crat!!!" or some such goofiness. Back to me dashboard......Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer18:22, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
You're very welcome, and I'm bluelinking WP:FILM for you, because my talkpage has oodles of talkpage stalkers, maybe one of them is interesting in helping out over there - always good to get fresh blood involved in a W-Proj. cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer18:57, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Congratulations, Gazimoff! That was your tenth editor here. You're officially a talk page stalker here (now where'd I put that social networking barnstar... Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer19:12, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
:Aggghhh! Little help please with an AfD for an article I created. I find it odd that a user with <10 edits has gone in and raised and AfD... Thanks Lugnuts (talk) 19:40, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
(ec) hmm? You found out? How? I didn't really tell anyone what other Wikipedia I've been contributing too. And no, it's not the klingon Wikipedia (whatever that is :P). -- RyRy5 (talk) 19:40, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
<-- RyRy, you didnt exactly disguise the new username, and I also thought of why you might be changing and where you would go for that. Also, I was lucky with my first guess. I think I know why you want to change, and I think you should stay here as your primary wikipedia. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs19:41, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh, I think I know too. And I didn't really "disguise" the username, I was going to have my user renamed here, but someone has already taken it. :( -- RyRy5 (talk)
(ec)And the new userpage is virtually identical, save one major item, hence the reason I claim to know why you switched. I'm a regular Sherlock Holmes! BTW, can't we just tell Keeper at this point? : )Gwynand | Talk•Contribs19:47, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Keeper, take a look at this. :) But I think I will stay there more than here for a while. Gwynand, i don't even know myself why I "switched". -- RyRy5 (talk) 19:50, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, since you've "outed" yourself, I'll tell you how I found you - simply because I don't think you speak any other languages and that's the only other english wikipedia (heh). and saw your sig with the same font at simple talk. xenocidic (talk) 19:56, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
<--I think you should contribute wherever you want Ryan. If that means simple, then so be it! Wikipedia (in any version) is supposed to be fun. None of us are getting paid to edit, we do it because we enjoy it on some level. You've had some success here after a rocky start and some goofs, but that's true of every editor. You are welcome to contribute here, and you are welcome to contribute there. If you end up over at Simple most of the time, I'm sure they will appreciate your help there! Good luck wherever you land. (and I'm glad it's not scribble, and I'm glad it's not klingon...:-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer20:01, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
(ec) Thanks Keeper! :) But I'll sometimes come here to review some DYK noms, revert vandalism, and if I feel like it, I'll create an article that I will nominate for DYK. I'll be more active at Simple English though. They basically need more attention then en. Yesterday, there was a big vandal attack and no admins were there to block him, actually, no registered user was there besides me, and I had to cleanup all his mess. That was tiring... :s -- RyRy5 (talk) 20:12, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Sure, as long as we are contributing to the mainspace and not focusing on this party and social networking. Some WP:FUN is good in these hot summer months. Shapiros10contact meMy work19:47, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Dear god, they managed to get that up to 100k? Ah, the things you miss when you're staring blankly at a screen for days on end protecting the world from the terrorist menace. – iridescent02:35, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Doppelganger
Thank you for fixing that humbug's wagon. It's nice to be considered important enough to be impersonated. You know, I've worked myself up from nothing, to a state of extreme poverty. Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?23:33, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm too slow I guess. I missed this message up here actually, if your loyal follower pops up again, start a new thread at the bottom, which is where I always start my morning and work my way up. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer14:42, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Hey Keeper, typically I would agree with you to let the Afd run its course. However, the author of the article removed the original tag rather than placing a {hangon} on the piece. Than made a statement on the Mainspace page, which I moved to the discussion page. If there was any claim to Notability made in the article, or proven in a search, I would completely agree with your decision. However, when the piece cannot substantiate any claim, I say Speedy Delete to save the community time in ridding itself of pure Prue Spam. ShoesssSTalk22:50, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Hey Shoesss, I've left a comment on the AFD. Whenever I see a brand new editor removing a db, I usually just assume they have no idea what they're doing and give them a second chance. Readding the speedy tag is technically appropriate, I've done it before myself. But to readd it, and someone prodded it, and someone huggle-afd'ed it, all within minutes, had to seem ridiculous to someone other than me, so I declined the speedy as contested, removed the prod as contested. The article will likely be merged or deleted, (I would prefer merge as their seem to be product reviews - mags, even niche mags, don't review everything, they review those that they think their readers would be interested in, i.e. notable ones) The AFD gives interested editors at least 5 days to give it a crack. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer14:12, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply. Actually, I am working with the author and another editor to cleanup the company’s piece. From there, it seems like there is agreement all the way around for the article to be merged there. Take care. ShoesssSTalk21:51, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Thank you
Thank you for your great nomination (universally acclaimed !), and giving me the opportunity to become an administrator. I look forward to assist the project and its community. Hopefully, our paths will cross again in the future :) Thanks again, CenariumTalk00:19, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
You're very welcome, although I "didn't give you the opportunity", merely pointed you out to the community. Your contribs are stellar, and they alone gave you the opportunity. :-) Cheers Cenarium, best of luck with the tools, enjoy them for what they are, I'm sure you'll find them useful. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:33, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
I hate that awards center. Well, hate it in a nice way! It gets thrown in with adoption on the list of "Supposedly good things that actually hurt the project when taking a closer look". Gwynand | Talk•Contribs15:22, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
I just dropped a whopper of an oppose there. Wow... can't believe syn maggot tried to speedy close this per snow. Good faith project or not, the problems it is causing can't be ignored. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs15:53, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
I was reading yours while you were typing here. And I answered iMathew's question on the "specifics" section, I think, rather appropriately. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:55, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
I was gonna try to answer his question too, but I believe many of the opposes directly address it. To sum up my long "delete", basically one of my lines stands out most "However, if newcomers have the chance to come to the project with the ability to develop as editors and help things here, then we shouldn't have these silly centers/programs which encourage volume, quantity, and speed over quality and a simple job well done." That's why I dont feel silly myself needing to vote delete over a seemingly harmless project. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs16:00, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Dusti, because I'm a light mood, and I've wanted to tell you this for a while... I'm fairly positive Keeper has the coaching page on watch and doesn't need a ping (or 2, or 10) here :) Gwynand | Talk•Contribs16:36, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Haha... based on our contrib histories, I'd say when Keeper and I get out of school every day, we generally get as far away from wikipedia as possible. :) Gwynand | Talk•Contribs16:56, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Hey, I saw a few people asking you for favors so I thought I'd be WP:BOLD and tip in. An article I created got AfD'd earlier this week, so I was hoping you could help me back up my Keep (or improve the article). Thanks for the time!--Koji†Dude(C)15:29, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
You f-in with me? What's with the youtube hidden link? You tryin to rickroll me? I can't see youtube from my work PC, corporate restricted. Give me a link if UR SRS. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:31, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
You know, "SRS" is one of those words that gets thrown around alot latley... I don't want to get political. ;-) --Koji†Dude(C)15:33, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
I've got some social networking to do here Koj, do you need my help on an article or not? Keeper's busy! Give me a good link...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:34, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Nah, I'm trying to screw with you. I made a bet with my dog that I could do it, so now I owe it a piece of cheese. I did create an article that actually got AfD'd, though, but that was a few weeks ago (I think). It (the article) stood for like, 2 years until it got nommed and the result was merge.--Koji†Dude(C)15:38, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
I had no idea that you'd been here that long, for some reason I thought you were a Class of '07 noob. What's wrong with you? Masochism? Dedication? Insanity? Perserverance? Some other malady? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:45, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
On Saturday or Sunday, I'll be gone, and Gwynand will be posting here if he needs to Drive Quickly, Yet Safely to the Hospital Hopefully Not at Rush Hour Like Me and My Wife Had ToTM. Gwynand needs this template added to his talkpage once he pings my talk. (...and feel free to preemptively congratulate him or give him bad advice...) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer16:56, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
I had to use a similar template for when those damned Wasps invaded my back yard in 05, during mating season, coincidentaly right after I started my Farm for Geese, which were also in heat at the time. Weirdest sounds you'll ever hear in your life; the neighbors kept calling me about Disturbing the Peace. I swear I got at least 16 visits from the Police, EPA, Animal Control... call it what you will, I call it an interesting summer.--Koji†Dude(C)22:10, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
We don't even cross the street mid-block. And that article is creepy, and so is Lakeville. It's one of those towns that's on the "fringe" of the Metro area, not Metro. Mostly oversized, beige homes with 3 car garages pushed out front and riding lawn mowers a-buzzing. I'm in the "old burbs" where the cops are too busy pulling me over for rolling stopsigns and other egregious blights on civilization. If a cop showed up at my bedroom door, he/she would likely be greeted with my "Old Comiskey Commemorative Bat-Day" home alarm system... Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer17:22, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
I just can't imagine it. I grew up in Rockland County, New York, only about 20 miles from Manhattan but we weren't that Mayberry. In summer we might leave the door unlocked if we were near it but never if we went upstairs or in the backyard, never mind to bed. Once I locked my keys in the car and was panicked that someone would try to steal it. I remember when I went to Oklahoma City and was amazed at friends being able to go through security at the airports because in my flying life, that's never been allowed in the NYC airports. Funny how different places are. Our local cops know where to hide to catch you evil stop sign rollers, the rest of us know where they hide and stop appropriately. I miss bat day...None of the games this year have been give-a-ways. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee17:35, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Adam's Sandwiches Plus - Speedy Deletion
This article was not "blatant advertisement." I have no connection with Adam or his restaurant in any way; I merely wanted an informative article about the new sandwich joint near my home town. I would have appreciated it if you could have marked aspects of the article that you mistook for advertisement, and I could have rephrased to make it more informative sounding. Please restore my article. It was a first draft, but it certainly doesn't deserve immediate deletion like this. Daverigie (talk) 18:45, 20 June 2008 (UTC) Dave
Hi there, Dave. Do you have any references from independent, reliable sources that explain why Adam's Sandwiches Plus is notable? It isn't even open yet, so I'm sure there are no reviews of their cuisine, but perhaps they've been written about somewhere? Let me know on my talkpage if you have any sources, I'll restore the article in its entirety. Also, please read this. Thanks, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer18:48, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Re: Just a friendly note
No worries. If I took every editorial dispute personally, I'd be a nutcase by now. The issue in re Sinclair is one which is somewhat marginal with regards to keep or delete, and subsequently polarizing. I didn't even consider your list of reasons on a personal level. Anyway, have a good weekend yourself! -- Kendrick7talk22:07, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Pink Lemonade (movie) deletion
Hey, I saw that you deleted Pink Lemonade (movie). Although I'm not at all involved in editing the article - I stumbled on it from the contested speedy deletion list - it doesn't seem right to me, and bite-ish, that this guy's article got tagged within 5 minutes of creation, and then deleted, when the article was obviously a work in progress. Sure, I understand deleting copyright violations and personal attacks on sight, but with A3, you can't expect most users to construct a full draft in user space first. I'd think that new pages still under construction deserve a grace period of at least a few days. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TotientDragooned (talk • contribs)
No worries, I agree the movie is probably not encyclopedic, I was thinking if I were in his place I'd be pretty bummed to have my article deleted before I had a chance to finish it.TotientDragooned (talk) 21:36, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi. A few months ago, you deleted an article about a fictional location called Norrath. I was one of the contributors to the article, but had forgotten about it, and did not notice the deletion discussion. I feel that the article could be written in such a form as to meet both WP:N and WP:GAMECRUFT, which were the reasons it was deleted. I've never petitioned for recreation or anything like that, so apologies if I've done this wrong. I was wondering if you could make the article available to me to work on in my userspace. Thanks, McJeff (talk) 04:03, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi, McJeff. Keeper is often off-line at the weekend so I've restored it for your use here: User:McJeff/Norrath. I had no problem doing so, and don't imagine Keeper would either since you show a desire to improve it. As you work on the article I recommend you look at WP:N and WP:RS to help shape a re-created article. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee04:19, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm headed offline til tomorrow, maybe an ANI post is in order to get wider attention, or an easy explanation,it's out of my league and I don't have time for it today. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer16:48, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi I've made an intital suggestion at the GEOBOT talk page in that it would be an excellent idea to generate a full lists of places in a tabled list. Once this is accomplished we can work through what articles could be started in their own right if there is enough info avilabale. I see it as a solid comprehensive base to build geo content on if we have a full world list organized like this. See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Geography/Bot#Creating lists. Please offer your thoughts thanks ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦$1,000,000?14:25, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
I wonder if there's a town called Inherently Lazy Procrastination Prone Slightly Overweight, Iran? If you get one named for you, I should get one too :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:28, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
LOL. I know I weighed in at 216 pounds last time I checked about 15 1/2 stone. I try to work out in the gym every few days, but I've got increasingly lazy and noticed I have a lot more fat around my mid section than I used to since editing the wiki!! However many situps I do I can't get seem to shift it anymore!! I used to be a 32 waist when I was about 18 and have a six pack. Now I measure a 37 waist! I used to think I was immune to weight gain! ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦$1,000,000?15:41, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Heh, get out of my head! When I was sixteen I weighed 120 soaking wet. All the same, I'm only in a 35 waist, feeling much better 'bout meself, and so therefore <tongue sticking out at you now...> Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:47, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Bastard. Try the kids' section. And wait about ten years, and look back through these archives, and note that you will be adding an inch to the waist for every year that passes...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer16:26, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Wow 30 waist is tiny. But are you of Filipino descent Useight?, they are generally quite small build in northern European comparison. Diet, metabolism, genes and general physical exercise do play a big role but I should have the genes on my dads side to stay skinny too, my dad is 60 next week and still surfing and keeping fit, I don't know too many 60 year blokes who run up the stairs. His brothers and sisters are as skinny as a rake, so is my sister, its on my mums side the dudes are all like 6'3 or 6'4 and heavy. I would never let myself get like some people are, in fact I feel like a beanpole compared to some of the short fat (and bald lol) beer belly blokes you get walking about in Cardiff lol! ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦$1,000,000?17:21, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
No, I'm your regular American. I think I'm 1/8th German ancestry, but I'm pretty much a mutt when it comes to European ancestry. I'm only semi-active, I don't go hang out at the gym and I pretty much drive everywhere (gas is $3.95!), but I do go for an occasional swim or friendly game of football. I just don't eat much, and when I do it's almost invariably cereal. I need a wife. Useight (talk) 17:38, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Sheeks 120? Wow thats light! I used to be around 175lb for a while in my late teens. Then when I turned 21 I had another growth spurt and grew too tall! and put on about three stone in bulk in the four years that have followed. I was quite surprised at it but there was little I could do about it. I never realized when I was younger between 18 and 25 you could still grow much! Heheh a quick check reveals there are several towns in Cameroon are called "Balda". Perhaps its up to GEOBOT to work out which is the "baldest" LOL. Happy days ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦$1,000,000?15:58, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
I already knew I was in the minority on wiki as a female but from this discussion with the usual suspects, I think I'm the only female on this talk page too. Since women's pant size make no sense I have no idea what my waste is. I'm short, however (5'3/~156 cm) so finding pants that fits is nearly impossible. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee04:24, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Has anyone noticed that only on this page can you begin talking about creating a Geo list and then start talking about....lets see- we have gas prices, ancestry, pants, pant sizes, mean names, weight, metabolism, obesity, and all the rest? Wow!! I would say more, but I'm about to die of laughter. DustiSPEAK!!16:08, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Maybe. I guess the general idea is that if your signature consists of a template, a vandal attacking the template would be amazingly effective at spreading his vandalism surreptitiously. J.delanoygabsadds15:48, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
<--I'm pretty sure we aren't allowed to subst or transclude our signatures. With millions of users, you'd think you'd run across one somewhere in place of 4 tildes if it were allowed. I don't know where it says it though. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer15:51, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
I removed the email info (it's in the history. I would say not to do much of anything at the moment, but I'll be curious to know how "the new admin" reacts. Reading over the RFA, it didn't look like JBJ had anything to do with it. Weird shit. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer18:02, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Few things... it looks like a simple typo, he meant RfC. Highly unlikely that JBJ didn't understand this. EPBR should at least respond to this, as it is public, but there is nothing wrong with such an email, wrong meaning "no reason to desysop". Further question... is JBJ desysopped, where would I normally find such information. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs18:12, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
<--See Malleus, now this just pisses me off. You're link doesn't work anymore. I can see it, Xeno can see it, Iridescent can see it. But you can't. Royally pissed. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer18:15, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Me? Because Malleus brought something to my attention that needed admin action. Malleus is not an admin, despite deserving to be one. He has survived (mostly) intact two of the most hellish RFAs I've ever seen, and despite my (and Iridescent's) best efforts, could not convince the community to pull it's collective head out of their arse and look at the "big picture" and "net positive" that is Malleus. Of course, he can be a dick sometimes though...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer18:29, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
(ec) Right, I figured that out after I posted. meanwhile I managed to sneak thru RFA with only a slight scathing. of course, there was two very contentious RFAs distracting people from mine! –xenocidic (talk)
The irony is thick. I'm trying to write all British, what with my dumb-arse-self, and inadvertently refer to myself as being overly intoxicated. I'm only slightly intoxicated. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer18:55, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
←Whenever I talk with a British accent to my British friends, they always make fun of my American idioms. So now I don't even try... J.delanoygabsadds19:01, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
There's one I can never understand: "I could care less". So you care a bit then? Why not the good old British "I couldn't care less"? --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 19:14, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Just to clarify Mall, although Americans misquote that expression, "I couldn't care less" is the one and only correct way to say it, "I could care less" has just been misused so many times that people don't realize that it's wrong or why it's wrong. I used to explain that to people all the time, also telling people not to use a qualifier before the word unique ... but people hategetting being corrected. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs19:21, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
"I could care less" is tripe. It's utterly meaningless and arose because of stupid people mangling the original. The correct version has always been "I couldn't care less", whether you're in Great Britain or America. That's just one of hundreds I see people screw up. Enigmamessage19:26, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
I have had rather similar conversations about "almost perfect", or "almost dead". They're booleans, you're either perfect or you're not, you're either dead or you're not. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 19:29, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Just yesterday my sister told me she could care less when I said something to her, and I asked her why she didn't, and she asked me wth I was saying. :) J.delanoygabsadds19:30, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
That response always puzzles me, as semantics is the meaning of words. If we don't care about their meaning, then why don't we just use words randomly, or like Humpty Dumpty?
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone. "It means just what I choose it to mean - neither more or less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - that's all."
I've edit conflicted trying to point this out too. And I edit conflicted trying to point out that I edit conflicted. Sigh. I'll probably edit conflict with this too...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer19:52, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
The #7 you are talking about was actually #6. But now #7 is definitely apropos. And the white knight is talking backwards... –xenocidic (talk) 19:56, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
I recently cropped the image on this profile so it is solely Gustavo Poyet, as the image before had Gustavo and another guy. The owner of the original image keeps reverting it back as he wants to be in the picture with Gus, and keeps saying it looks amateur if we crop it. Wikipedia guidelines clearly say an image should not have 2 people in if possible, and the 3 topics on the talk page are all confused anon users asking why there is 2 people in the image. Could you please give me advice here before a revert war happens? Thanks. Jack?!17:34, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Not sure about the two people rule (makes sense, but it's broken everywhere). The cropped picture looks worse than no pic at all though, I'm afraid. First thing I think when looking at it is who is the other person in the pic and why are they cut out? Gwynand | Talk•Contribs17:37, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
The second thing I think when I see it is, "this is arguably the most famous man in Uruguay and played for three of the most high profile teams in the world, how on earth don't we have more PD photos of him"? You might want to post at WP:FOOTBALL — there are bound to be some other people who've taken photos of him who won't mind releasing them. Incidentally, the third thing I think is "why is this article so short?" – iridescent17:47, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Could you please explain something to me?
The following discussion is archived. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
Please read two threads up. Posting private emails without permission from the sender ain't a great idea. Generally frowned on. You're an admin, you can still read them to your heart's delight. Epbr can too. There is no reason at all that I can think of to have that be public information for his protection and frankly yours. Do what you like with OTRS. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer18:32, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Keeper, you're assuming that the e-mails came from him to begin with... which had been my initial question. (And the thing I was trying to determine.) If it is a fake, it should then be noted at the Foundation, even if they just file it away in some gods-forsaken folder somewhere. I'll begin a dialogue with them later today. Thank you for your prompt reply! -- Joe Beaudoin Jr.Mail Me18:40, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
To JBJ, was that the appropriate location to flag up such a discussion? Surely an understanding which could be reached on either the talk page of Epbr or on your talk page would have been more suitable. Rudget (logs) 18:34, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
(edit conflict... arrgh!) :D As I noted in the now-deleted talk page, I attempted to e-mail him via Wikipedia, and then tried to communicate on his talk page (which he reverted, thus removing my comments). That's why I brought it to the talk page of the RfA... Sadly, had that information NOT been deleted, you could've understand my concerns. -- Joe Beaudoin Jr.Mail Me18:40, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
I am an admin, I read the brief e-mails (after reading this thread (not that I scan this page often, though) to and fro, I sadly omitted that detail from my memory. Rudget (logs) 18:43, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
(e/c)rudget's an admin, coulda/shoulda looked, simply didn't. As a compromise, I think you may have a valid concern, but I will not undelete (nor should anyone else) a private email, especially because you don't know if it is in fact from E123 or not. Summarize the concern, without the email information/addresses and without the text of the email. Or, get E123's permission (seems unlikely as he's deleted it from his talkpage). Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer18:45, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Just saw your response tucked in there, Joe, starting with Keeper, you're assuming. I encourage you to take up that dialogue. I would decide if it's really worth your efforts though, other than the impersonation issue. The email was a bit nasty and "rub your nose in it" style, but other than rude, rather harmless eh? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer18:48, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
That's not a problem. I'm happy that you've taken the time to discuss this with me, since it clears the air. :D Frankly, it is my belief that had Epbr simply given me some kind of answer, I wouldn't have had to go through this stuff... It does seem very ridiculous, no? All I want, really, is a "yes" or "no" answer. If no, then I would just let the foundation know and they can have something on record, so that there's a history of someone impersonating Epbr123 (in the event that such a thing gets to someone who is lawyer-happy). By the way, I must confess that I would be seriously disappointed if Epbr did send that e-mail, since it is extremely unbecoming (and a bit uncouth, as you've noted) for someone who was just appointed an administrative position on the English Wikipedia. And even if he did, I would assume he would be mature enough to admit to it and move on. Instead, you guys are wasting your time on this issue. And I'm sorry for that. :(
My concern would be that it may be another example of the different standards applied to the behaviour of administrators and non-administrators. Harmless, perhaps, but a lethal weapon at an RfA. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 19:00, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh, come now Malleus, you know very well that administrators are better. Keep in mind that higher standards goes both ways though. The higher you climb, the tougher the landing when you fall. Bad editing gets blocked, deleted. (so does some good editing) and the editor gets many many chances. Bad adminning gets the drama wheels a movin'. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer19:05, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
God, isn't that archived yet? It's a sad commentary on the state of RFA. Look at my contribs. The contrib right before this one sums up my feelings. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer19:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
"He has survived (mostly) intact two of the most hellish RFAs I've ever seen ...". More or less intact is about right; but this incident (you know the history) has severely dented my enthusiasm for the project. I guess everyone gets to a point where it just seems like a waste of time and effort sooner or later though. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 21:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
If this allegation against Epbr123 isn't properly dealt with, then I will be gone. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 22:01, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
It looks like not deleting the question that was asked, but instead answering it. If it turns out that the allegation is true, then Epbr123 should be desysoped. Properly dealt with doesn't mean ignoring it. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 22:13, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Are you talking about me deleting the private email information or about epbr deleting the question from his own talkpage (I agree that looks bad in his case)...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer22:19, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
<serious mode> The place for this is ANI (or even an email to the foundation), not Keeper's talkpage; talking about it here's no better than discussing it on Wikipedia Review. No-one here has access to the checkuser facilities, oversight powers & ability to cross-check user email accounts that would be needed to prove if this is (or isn't) Epbr123. (FWIW, while it's no secret that I'm no great fan of Epbr, I don't see anything worse than rudeness here.) – iridescent22:21, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. Egregious gloating, deserving of a trout. Never in a million years (right or wrong) would he be desysopped over a sloppy, crude email if it turned out to be him. I'll instantly regret supporting his rfa, I will have no respect for him. But he'll never be desysopped for one bad email. After the shit you've been through Malleus I would hope that isn't your straw/camel back. You need to go out on your own terms, in a blaze of glory. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer22:24, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Let me be brutally frank. Epbr123 trashed my wikipedia career, and managed to persuade many others that I could not be trusted because of my alleged incivility. If he is allowed to remain an administrator after doing something far worse than I was blocked for only a few weeks ago, then I will be gone. There should be no difference in sending out that kind of email before or after an RfA. It would have killed the RfA, it should kill the subsequent sanctification. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 22:33, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
I expect nothing less than frankness from you Malleus. This needs to go off my talkpage, it isn't getting the right audience here. Ideas anyone? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer22:37, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
User talk:Giano II is the traditional place for arguments like this... Seriously, even though it's IMO a waste-of-space page, if things are getting this heated I'd suggest doing it "by the book" and posting at Wikipedia:Wikiquette alerts. I sincerely doubt it will do anyone any good to haul the whole thing in front of Arbcom or ANI. If you want "informal resolution", someone like SandyGeorgia or Karanacs, who all parties appear to at least grudgingly respect, might be able to administer appropriate bollockings. – iridescent22:41, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
I've notified Epbr123 of this thread. This thread needs to get off my talkpage. Someone let me know where it lands. Malleus, go to bed. See you in the morning. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer22:44, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Giggy might be a good mediator as well - he's familiar with everyone involved, and he knows even better than Malleus just how poisonous the combination of RFA and FAC can get. – iridescent22:46, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
This should make you feel even worse. Go to bed Malleus before you reply to this thread. Let the sun go down on your anger and approach it in the morning with a fresh perspective. Pretty please...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer22:52, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
Badger
[5] Best quote ever. If there was a barnstar for making my eyes tear from laughter, I'd give it to you. You're Jesus for the week.--Koji†Dude(C)21:08, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
I read it very briefly, seems to be a good block. I would recommend you not adopting him or anyone else (don't you already have a couple of adoptees that are coming off blocks?), and it seems that what David is suggesting (email based editing) is better than adoption anyway. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer21:38, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
I think (in fact, I'm sure) he doesn't realise how close he came to an indefblock when he started fiddling with huggle/config. Thankfully, someone else has shouted at him first. – iridescent22:02, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Dusti, I still say let David do whatever he has offered to do before you step in with adoption. Two is enough, regardless of how you came about them. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer23:34, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
I did that because there is no way in hell that I would support said user in a request for adminship, and I want it to be known that I've (at least) attempted to strike my own vote. (it's been reverted twice at this point....) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer01:41, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Sine you're an admin, your edit is more conspicuous than other ordinary editors, so I just had a little curiosity. Well, I guess you're upset at him for some good reason, but you could've raised an related issue to AN/I or other place as you always do. Anyway, having a cold cup of ice tea would make you feel better in this hot day. Good night.--Caspian blue (talk) 01:50, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh, I get it now and fully understand your unusual action. Wow,........... how foolish I was to believe that people can be changed soon.--Caspian blue (talk) 02:15, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Good. At least, "good until Gurch comes back". I'm terrified of huggle. Similarly to any trained attack dog, It Needs Its Owner To Be Effective -- Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer23:44, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Lasted 52 minutes. Apparently, a highly complex tool that took a skilled programmer hundreds of hours to create and maintain, can be handled just as well by a gaggle of Wikipedia's squabbling admin-wannabes, led by someone who boasted in his RFA of his "best contribution" being a cut-and-paste copyvio of another site. The more I see of the way this place is going, the more tempted I get to head over to Special:AllPages and hit d-batch. – iridescent00:43, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
<--Okie dokie. Everyone needs to go to fucking bed right fucking now. Monday has ended, it has been a shitty day on Keeperpedia. Go to fucking bed. Sorry for the language, but I want everyone to leave this page the fuck alone. For 12-24 hours anyway. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer00:45, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Done (and actually, I thought Avruch was an admin. What gives?} Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 01:31, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
On hold: This article is currently awaiting improvements before pass/fail.
![[1]](http://www.123celebs.net/g/george-michael/george-michael3.jpg){kind=link}
Done Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:13, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
