User talk:Curly Turkey/Archive/2018

Did you know...

...that aikido, kendo, and to a lesser extent judo and karate all originated in Asia but are now practiced primarily by westerners? That's the impression I get from the (distribution of) photographs in our articles on them, anyway.

Seriously, it's really weird that the infobox of the aikido article lists famous practitioners who are all but two Japanese, and Japan has won the kendo world championships something like ten times as often as every other country combined, but our articles make it look like they have since the nineteenth century been primarily non-Japanese phenomena. The judo and karate articles are a little less problematic (primarily because few of the faces are visible), but the photos there come across as vanity picks taken by the parents of the subjects. (Yes, I know the faces are all concealed in the kendo article, but the European names of the subjects, who appear to be non-famous private individuals, are all visible.)

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 07:54, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

It's unsurprising. Most of those editing these articles—and taking and uploading images—would be Westerners, wouldn't they? Compounded by the fact that ja.wp perhaps is less active than it could be—from what I understand, de.wp is more active with a smaller population of speakers, for instance. That's not the type of "bias" that deserves finger-pointing, but still requires correction. I'm surprised you even mentioned karate, though—the only photo of non-Japanese in that one is from the Philippines.

I don't know how much of a photographer you are (I'm pretty shitty), but this could be an opportunity to not only correct the bias, but add some appropriate photos to the articles—say, a gallery of the various techniques. Or enlist a helpful friend willing to donate their work. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 05:36, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

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If I may take the liberty of some unsolicited advice...

As a completely uninvolved editor, can I make the suggestion that whatever your viewpoint, and however aggravated you might be, knock it off at EEng's Place. Rightly or wrongly you seem to be committed to a headlong charge at the line... Slow down, back off and cool down before you happen to cross it. Have an otherwise lovely night, --Jack Frost (talk) 09:58, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

• It would be nice if the editwarrior would fix his fuckups after having admitted they were fuckups, instead of going off the hinges with bizarre mind games. Maybe a completely uninvolved editor could step in and fix it? He's made it clear I'm not allowed to touch the article. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 10:51, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	ō! Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 08:12, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

• Ōōōm! Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 08:42, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 26

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Books & Bytes
Issue 26, December – January 2018

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:36, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

Your edits at Ran

That was quite a sequence of edits on the film Ran which you did. Any interest on your part to possibly review it if I do the GA nomination. JohnWickTwo (talk) 02:49, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

• JohnWickTwo: I could maybe go over the text, but I doubt I could work up the motivation to do a proper GAN review. A couple things: the plot synopsis is really long. WP:FILMPLOT calls for a synopsis of between 400 and 700 words or readable prose—the current one is 1050 words. Another thing is that there are still a lot of unsourced statements—it'll never pass GAN with unsourced statements (except for the plot). Another: I don't know how best to handle this, but I don't think it's a good idea to gloss 乱 as "chaos", partly because the title is obviously supposed to have multiple meanings ("chaos" as well as "war"/"rebellion"). Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 03:53, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

Apologies

Hi Curly, I just wanted to offer a quick apology for this edit. I was moving too fast and misclicked the rollback button, I undid it but with errors like that I'd prefer to apologize personally. Best wishes.--Church ^Talk 08:58, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

Church—don't worry about it. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 09:36, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedians who like Black Mirror

Hey! I saw that you edited the article Black Mirror and thought maybe you would be interested in this new user category I created?-🐦Do☭torWho42 (⭐) 12:01, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

• Heh! Actually, I only watched the one episode after reading about parallels with the new system going in in China. Maybe someday! Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 22:53, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

Tamahime

If you want the page to be removed, ask for it.Xx236 (talk) 11:52, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

• It's being linked to from Japanese articles for a historical figure named Tamahime, so there should likely be an article for it—but it shouldn't be redirecting to a film with a different title. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 11:54, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

O Canada!

All these politically-motivated changes to the national anthem are getting under my skin. We should go back to Weir's original translation—gender-neutral and secular:

O Canada! Our home and native land!

True patriot love thou dost in us command.

We see thee rising fair, dear land,

The True North, strong and free;

And stand on guard, O Canada,

We stand on guard for thee.

O Canada! O Canada!

O Canada! We stand on guard for thee.

O Canada! We stand on guard for thee.

... although cramming the three-syllable pa-tri-ot into two still sticks in my craw. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 08:13, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Suddenly steamrolled AFDs?

Hey, I was looking back at the contribs of one of my alt-accounts for reasons just now, and remembered this for the first time in a long time; it was 3-1 in favour of deletion for almost a full week, and then within a single day five more people suddenly showed up and all !voted to keep and a non-admin closes it having clearly not read the discussion (one of the unambiguous delete !votes became a "maybe" and another was completely ignored, and the timing made it anything but WP:SNOW). And this was apparently the result of a WikiProject that was at least in that case used for the specific purpose of canvassing keep !votes in AFDs: I don't recall ever encountering them again, but the project doesn't seem to have been formally retired, so if it still serves that function it really seems like a problem.

This reminded me a bit of what happened at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Korean influence on Japanese culture; the latter obviously shouldn't be re-opened given the great work you, Nish and others did to fix the article (at least to the point that WP:TNT no longer applies), but I'm really wondering about Mottainai. Apparently no one has done any work in the last five years to fix its problems or demonstrate how it is not a dictionary entry combined with a puff piece to promote a social programme, and I'm really not convinced the original deletion rationales don't apply (and the close was way out of line).

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:50, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Yeesh—I remember when I first came to Japan, it was going around that "there's no word for mottainai in English" ... do people still believe that? It's a meme I haven't heard since the 20th century, anyways. Scanning the article, it looks like horseshit to me, but that's problably mostly the fault of the sources. It'll survive another AfD unless you can be really convincing that the sources themselves are full of shit.

I didn't do any "great work" on the "Korean influence" article—I just did a lot of copyediting. I doubt I ever looked at any of the sources. I was less aware of how bad the nationalists could get with articles like this—I definitely think there should be an article on the topic (in an ideal world), but had no idea what a headache maintenance of it would be.

I lean pretty "inclusionist", even with the bullshit it brings. I might make an exception for political articles—they're all hopeless timesinks. Nuke 'em all. Wikipedia's not the place to inform yourself on the Israel–Palestine conflict. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 12:09, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

The night is dark and full of terrors. And terrible shocks. As in ... wow: I nominated an article for deletion five years ago under a sock account I had forgotten about, the AFD was steamrolled due to inappropriate canvassing on a forum that was dedicated to such inappropriate canvassing (which I don't remember noticing at the time) and is still active, and then when I consider asking our most prominent deletionist (whom I'd defended in a bunch of "This user nominated my article for deletion; they should be blocked" ANI threads) if they're familiar with the problem, I find out that a month ago they were blocked for undisclosed socking going back the better part of a decade. I mean -- what!? The whole world has gone topsy-turvy. Is this Star Trek? I'm going to go get crucified upside-down now. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 12:38, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Sorry. Our Acts of Peter article is garbage, but I didn't know that, and I figured linking it would make the meaning of my reference clear. Basically, Peter decides to be crucified upside-down because Adam entered the world head-first, and since Adam's day Sin has been in the world and turned everything on its head, so only by being upside-down can Peter see everything as it is meant to be. Or something along those lines. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 12:43, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

I can't figure out who the sock is ... ?

You won't get the article deleted, even if it is pure bull. It even cites a scholarly article that flatly claims "The word “mottainai” is a part of the Japanese religious and cultural heritage" (even if that has zero to do with the word's contemporary, everyday usage). The idea that it's "a cultural practice" is hard to swallow, but—it's "sourced"! Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:42, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, my latter two comments above had nothing to do with the mottainai article. In fact my first comment above was about weird AFD closures, where there is a clear consensus to delete, until a whole bunch of people suddenly show up and !vote keep, and only then is the discussion closed (by a non-admin who clearly should never close AFDs where the result is anything other than SNOW keep).

Anyway, Daijirin implies the term has a (basically unrelated) Shintoist (not Buddhist) sense that means defiling a sacred space or object, but honestly for all I know (for all Daijirin tells me since it doesn't actually mention Shinto) that's actually a Jewish sense that was used in early Japanese bible translations, since Leviticus and Numbers are full of that stuff. And then we get into the whole "Ancient Israelite religion and Japanese Shinto both have ritual impurity concepts; the Japanese must be descended from the Lost Ten Tribes" mess...

The sock is SwisterTwister (talk · contribs), and I was really surprised and awed at what had happened there, since ST had been a mainstay of the community (particularly AFDs and the various ANI threads people started about him as a result) for years and had a basically clean block log. My having discovered this within an hour or so of my discovering the ARS was really shaking me (to the point where I actually lost sleep; in order to get an extra thirty minutes in bed this morning I had to grab an 朝マクド on the way to work).

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 01:09, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Japanese-Jewish common ancestry theory—!!!—I see so many MoS fixes I desparately want to make in this article, but ... but ... I don't want my name showing up in the edit history ... Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 01:48, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

You're right to be careful. I just Googled my own username and found out that as having once made some minor edit to an article on the alt-right, and another on a Twilight film (?), I am now being credited as one of the co-authors of "books" on those topics. I'd hate to think about people who edit under their real names... Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 06:08, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Ok, I could see how my assertion that I'm on your talk at all is merely because of my interest in how things actually are done here might be taken with some skepticism, but I have to say this made my blood run cold. I hope you don't mind me asking, how prevalent would you say this kind of thing is? Am I just being naive here? What the actual fuck? Gabriel syme (talk) 02:10, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

There are companies out there that put on print-on-demand books of Wikipedia content. They come up in Google Books all the time: Here's an example. They sell them on Amazon, etc. It's all totally legal and everything, as long as they credit the contributors. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 02:21, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply, ok, wow. Did I accidentally choose a 'safe' username because the top hundred hits are always going to be about literature? I guess I had a vague implicit idea of printing articles out, with the, yeah, naive notion that it was a small scale thing, mostly used by educators. But damn I should've known there'd be an industry mining it for filthy lucre, why not? It just has terrifying implications. Uh, has it ever ended up in a situation where mass puppets show up, rewrite articles, and then go to press with something that blatantly violates what the community is working towards? This is why I shamelessly scan people's talk pages. Gabriel syme (talk) 02:50, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

I haven't heard of it, but I'd be surprised if it never happened. And you'd still get your name listed as a contributor to such filth! Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 02:58, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

@Curly Turkey: If it was something you were interested in, you could email me the gist of the non-controversial fixes you want made and when I had time I could go in and take care of it? I hope that's not out of line in any way. Gabriel syme (talk) 19:23, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, but what do you mean? Fixes to what? Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:31, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Oh, my bad. I meant like the MOS stuff at Japanese-Jewish common ancestry theory and similar. I've found that I really enjoy sweeping the dust bunnies out of dark corners. unsourced fishing advice, even. This is one of the strangest things I've ever involved myself with and I want to see where it goes. Gabriel syme (talk) 03:56, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

Oh! I was just exaggerating about that—I'm not actually afraid anything would happen to me. I just find that kind of article ... icky ...

It looks like someone named Hairy Dude just made the corrections yesterday that I would've, anyways. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 04:09, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

HA! Ok that's fair, I've been noticing that I'm pretty thickheaded about humor, exaggeration, and low-key irony here. It's my first real attempt at online communication since I was a teenager and that's definitely part of my learning curve. You've been really helpful, if you have a few spare moments, would you mind taking a look at this online worksheet I made to help onboarding people at this art+feminism wikithon signup I'm working on Saturday? I'd really appreciate any comments. Gabriel syme (talk) 04:26, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

It looks fine at first glance, but did you mean for "Wikipedia Manual of Style" to link to Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Contents rather than Wikipedia:Manual of Style? Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 04:32, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

I absolutely did. I was relying on the base MOS for a while and then I found that table of contents and that is exactly what I needed, neatly categorized. Whoever built that needs some praise. Gabriel syme (talk) 04:34, 23 February 2018 (UTC) PS: What's the trick to make this wrap back around to the left when we are creeping off the page like this? PPS: I guess my keyboard makes a nonstandard hyphen? There must be a way to fix that right?

You can use {{od}} ("outdent"). Your keyboard makes a standard hyphen, but what you're looking for is an en dash (see MOS:DASH). It's pretty hairsplitting, especially outside of article space—feel free to revert it if you don't like it. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 04:59, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

That is an hairsplittingly strange issue, but I get it. My gut instinct is always to standardize something that seemingly minor, hence the PS. Thanks for the wrapping trick! Gabriel syme (talk) 05:32, 23 February 2018 (UTC) Although, now that I'm looking at it, it made this all less readable...

This just went in my pocket as a very compelling argument for me to get people into editing. It's, uh, just alot more actually important that most of the internet. Thanks. Gabriel syme (talk) 03:15, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

@Gabriel syme: The worst part, though, is that under Wikipedia's free license (the same one that allows those books to be published), if someone plagiarizes text and adds it to an article, they are essentially releasing someone else's copyrighted material for anyone to reprint free of charge. This is super-serious and is the main reason COPYVIO text and images need to be deleted and removed from public view, and why it's really concerning that even "long-time editor[s] [with thousands of edits]"[1] don't "get" it. Checking that shit is extremely tedious work, and doing it without the prior consent of either the community or ArbCom essentially leaves one open to being accused of "hounding". Regardless of the actual definition of hounding. I'd be willing to bet that well over 70% of "hounding" accusations are either (a) hypocritical attacks made by bonafide hounds[2] or (b) attempts to shoot down scrutiny on counter-policy actions by either the counter-policy editors or teir friends. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 04:24, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Repinging User:Gabriel syme. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 04:25, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

@Hijiri88: Well, yeah, that looks like one of the most frustrating tasks imaginable. I guess I never put much critical thought into the potential for abuse represented by the tools, license, and policy here. That might be an area I'd be interested in once I've gotten a solid handle on things and have more time to devote. As far as hounding, wow, I really could have used that diff a few months back. I'll admit I might have been letting myself be baited but the editor was just obnoxiously following me to multiple areas they'd never touched. Thanks for the reply. Gabriel syme (talk) 19:19, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

!!! ... now I'm going to have to try that ... I did once come across a quote from my Comics article in a book. Not "one of those 'books'", but an actual book. That felt good! Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 06:11, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

... and the first one that comes up is Death Conspiracy Theories. What in the flying fuck did I edit! Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 06:12, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

...I also noticed some Redditor expressing sympathy for a certain banned editor's (not Til Eulenspiegel's) remarks comparing me to a Nazi, based on a very specific date range during which I made the mistake of fixing some links in an article on a neo-Nazi website roughly a week after I made a bunch of edits to Norse mythology articles and articles on characters in the novels of R. A. Salvatore (with names like "Wulfgar") back in 2005. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 06:59, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Were you editing any child porn articles that week? If not, you'll just have to try harder to discredit yourself next time. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 07:06, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

"Show Preview" button

Without wanting to be pedantic, and it's likely that you are already fully aware of this, but for the sake of those who check diffs, it would make a "diff" if the number of changes to any given section that appear in the article history and on our watchlists could be minimized....I try to remember to use the "Show Preview" button until I am sure that the changes are what I want. For example, your group of 21 edits to Singular they would have appeared as 10-11 edits instead, much easier to look through. I have sinned against this myself often enough, and it is just a suggestion... Clean Copy^talk 00:31, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

• Clean Copy: I understand, but I often make these edits while I'm between real-life tasks—when I'm called away, I save whatever I happen to have finished. Notice that the edits were made over a two-hour period. But something else to keep in mind (in my experience) is that large numbers of changes in a single edit make for a mess when one needs to revert a small number of the changes, and for this reason I've advised people in the past to break up large edits into smaller chunks. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 00:37, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

OK, good points. Clean Copy^talk 01:38, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

ANIの本音

"I really do not care if your disgusting personal attack contributed to the 'problem' or not." And here is one of the biggest problems with ANI—so many participants don't actually give two shits if someone's contributing to a problem, they just want drahmah and lots-o'-blocks. Meanwhile, we've got editors who spend years disrupting both article space and talk-page discussions that ANI time and time again refuses to deal with ... Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 06:52, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

BRD

Wait for consensus to form. There's no timeline. Walter Görlitz (talk) 07:34, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

• You're fucking incredible. You reverted in the middle of a fucking discussion. You should be blocked for that alone. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 10:22, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Revert needed

Hi, will you revert this please? I'm out of reverts. ―Mandruss ☎ 23:02, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

• Done, and I threw a {{Not a typo}} on it. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:09, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
  • Oh, and just so you know, I'm keeping the article off my watchlist, because it's so active it eats up too much of my watchlist. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:10, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
    • Thanks for the revert. I considered creating a redirect for that template, Template:NOT A TYPO, which would obviate much of the need for the hidden comment. I think the lower case would be easily missed by gnomes. ―Mandruss ☎ 23:24, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
      • Do you use the Visual Editor (or whatever it's called)? I don't, and I was wondering how (or if) {{Not a typo}} displays for editors who use it. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:27, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
        • Never touched Visual Editor. We don't need no stinking Visual Editor. ―Mandruss ☎ 23:29, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

Similar names

I've been rewriting our article on Akazome Emon, with my main source being an article by Hiroko Saito. Thing is, the previous version was apparently (it had no inline citations) based on writings by Hiroaki Sato and Earl Miner, Hiroko Odagiri. Nothing really important for the project; I just thought it was an amusing coincidence. :P Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:01, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

I've come across worse—articles that have confused people because they have the same romanized name. I came across that at Melo Imai—her father's name is Takashi Narita (成田 隆史), which linked to Takashi Narita (成田 貴志)—and (probably through citogenesis), I came across an English-language article stating here father was an Olympic volleyball player.

I thought her story was interesting enough to give it a decent expansion, but almost all the sources I came across were (perhaps unsurprisingly) tabloid trash I couldn't bring myself to cite. If she continues to win championships, I might come across better sources. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 11:09, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Might as well post this here

I really wish that talk page wasn't such a hot bed at the moment and we could engage in friendly if slightly off-topic banter freely. Anyway...

one could argue it's not even particularly Japanese This reminded me of a humorous Facebook post an American friend of mine once made having just bought a box ("tube"?) of cookies in a konbini; inside the box was a plastic wrapper; when he opened the wrapper, each cookie was individually wrapped; and this wasn't even the kind of omiyage where they were meant to be distributed to coworkers and left on the desks of absentees, but a snack suitable for one or at most two people. "Japan has a unique aversion to wastefulness" is like "Japan has a unique tendency to take train schedules with a pinch of salt" in terms of its hilarious anachronism.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 12:06, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

when I first came here (in 1998), when I'd go to a konbini and buy a single item for immediate consumption, when they'd start putting it in a bag, I'd tell them I didn't want the bag. The clerk would always look so flustered—they had no idea how to deal with not putting the item in a bag! We've come a long way from there to today, where every supermarket now charges for plastic bags and encourages people to bring their own mai bakku.

With that in mind, I was schocked—shocked—to discover a few years ago that Canada—Canada, the pioneer in blue boxes—was the world's leader in waste per capita. I don't know if it's that Canada has changed, but it sure felt like Japan was far more wasteful when I first moved here, with its double- and triple-wrapped everything and tendency to a strong preference to new everything over used anything (a lot fewer pawn shops and older cars on the roads). Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 12:18, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Putative non-count nouns

You posted in more than one place the claim that anime and manga have no (distinct) plural forms, because they are non-count nouns, not because they are Japanese words. Strictly speaking, I think, this is a non-sequitur, because non-count nouns still have plural forms: "milks", "cheeses", and so on. I do not believe there exists a non-count noun which cannot be plural. Even putting that aside, I realise I have no experience of the real use of anime or manga in English. I suppose I regard them mostly as genres, in which case they are uncountable, but given a マンガ本, does one not say "There's a manga"... in which case "There's another one" means that there are two manga(s), and this is definitely not a non-count usage.

Thanks for your work on Mottainai; I wil try to look at it some time. The grammatical description has been cleaned up, but it could simple describe the word as an adjective, and point out that (like any other adjective) it can be used attributively or predicatively, and automatically forms a free-standing exclamation. But it's difficult to know how to approach this: what does "adjective" mean, for example: there are any number of different sets of terminology, and I have a (real, smelly-paper) book that includes the claim that "Japanese has no adjectives". Imaginatorium (talk) 07:49, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

Imaginatorium: People say "There's a manga"/"There's an anime"? Maybe usage has evolved, but I'm not familiar with it. Do people who say "There's a manga" say "There are two manga"? "There are two anime"? If they do, this is far too recent usage to be used as an example like geisha or ninja (which are very well established).

"I do not believe there exists a non-count noun which cannot be plural."—economics, politics, etc.

Re: Mottainai: I find every book I come across uses different terms for Japanese grammar (in English, anyways). I don't think we need to go into much detail on the grammatical usage, since it's not a linguistics article. I wouldn't do more than link to Japanese equivalents of adjectives. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 11:04, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

French : Maus is now a good article

Hello Curly Turkey,
I've seen you're interested in Maus. With the help from other French Wikipedians, the article is now a GA in French (fr:Discussion:Maus/Bon_article). I thought you'd like the news.
Regards, --Bédévore ^{[knock knock]} 23:38, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

• Hey, that's great! Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 00:13, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

A cup of tea for you!

Thank you for your improvements at Tenpō Tsūhō. Donald Trung (talk) 09:49, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

• Oooh! Thanks! Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 09:51, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Face-palm

[3]

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:29, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Ha! I'd say this is why it's important to indicate vowel length, but then there're actually male names that end with ko.

Of course, the real problem is the OR—not only are those unacceptable sources, but none of them (that I can see) support the statement "Although most artists are men, a number of female artists have emerged recently". Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 12:51, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

I was initially afraid to check, but Gryffindor (talk · contribs)'s original article actually did have an apparently-passable source that verified the content, which was removed.[4] Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 23:07, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Okay, then it was just whoever added Suikō Buseki to the list. Easy mistake to make, but even then people shouldn't be adding this kind of thing to a list just because they found a name somewhere. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:59, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Suzukake Nanchara

Hello. Even though not mandatory, it is a good policy to notify about a move review to the editor who closed the move. But when you falsely accused me of confirming that I "closed [the move] on a mere show of hands and "merely stated what a lot of editors expressed" re WP:COMMONNAME." At that time you should have notified me, or at least pinged me there. You quoted me completely out of context. I never said "I merely counted the show of hands". Here is the special:diff/830009227 of that particular comment. I specifically said No matter what the reasoning behind it is, it is clear that the community wanted the page to be moved. I still support my close, if you think the consensus was in favour of not moving; then please free to open a move review. That is consensus. Now, if possible, kindly let me know how can my comment be interpreted as "I closed [the move] on a mere show of hands"? Also, kindly let me know what your definition of consensus is.

In case you dont remember the conversation, here is the link to archive: User talk:Usernamekiran/Archives/5#Suzukake_Nanchara. —usernamekiran(talk) 19:12, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

• The flying fuck is this shit? I told you beforehand there'd be a review, and there was a notice right after the review—not that it makes a lick of difference, as you weren't being reported for anything. The consensus is that you fucked up—you refused to acknowledge it then, and you refuse to acknowledge it now that the community has made it official. Jesus fucking Christ. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 04:16, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

This is my last communication with you.

1. If you have any evidence to prove that I closed [the move] on a mere show of hands; then kindly provide it.
2. If you remove this entire thread, or ignore this in any way; it will be clear that you made a false accusation.

In any case, I will not contact you again. —usernamekiran(talk) 20:29, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

You admitted to it yourself. Now fuck off. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:15, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, you just admitted you made a false accusation you sorry sack of meat. —usernamekiran(talk) 01:18, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

You either have a clear lack of understanding of plain English, or you are pretending to be a retard. So far you've failed to provide any evidence, instead you've replied with offensive, and/or profane comments. From now on, I am going to ignore you per dont feed the trolls. So say what you like. —usernamekiran(talk) 01:48, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

"In any case, I will not contact you again" ... just fuck off with the trolling horseshit and PAs. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 01:54, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

IDHT

Hey, given this I'm increasingly surprised that ANI thread didn't lead to a block. I suspect it might have something to do with your pulling a Hijiri2015-style goof and getting drawn into extensive (TLDR) back-and-forths (I also noticed your ongoing ANI thread about another editor -- you seem to be in the right there as well, but I wouldn't blame anyone for not wanting to read through it). Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 12:03, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

You're right—too much to read, so who would want to get involved? I suspect that many report subjects are well aware of that and game the system with their walls of text and provocation (and FUD, and outright lies—did you know that six of my five blocks were for PAs?). Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 12:09, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

Hit the nail on the head there. The worst part, though, is that guys like us who get suckered into it then look like we are the ones trying to filibuster the discussions (even if we were the ones who opened them). Our Doctor Who-watching friend and a bunch of the comic book mafiosi are among those who seem to be quite expert at it. The weird part, though, is when they filibuster their own threads, apparently because they know they will get BOOMERANGed if the threads proceed as normal, they knew this in advance, and only opened the ANI threads to intimidate whoever they are disputing with. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 12:14, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

Bad enough with that shit, but I'd promised myself to stay away from political articles, and here I've gotten sucked in. And it's this POV-pushing-from-all-sides horseshit that convinced me to stay away in the first place. Political articles are hopeless, endless timesinks. Even the Momokuro shit is over politics! Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 12:23, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

You think the number 28 has any significance? I have no idea why this section was titled as it was. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 12:47, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

I doubt there's any significance, although apparently certain numbers have certain significance to Nazis or whatever (I doubt they actually counted them, though). Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 12:49, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

If he was a fan of British classic sci-fi 42 would have made sense (or 47 if it was American classic sci-fi), but yeah, it might just be random. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 12:52, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

I honestly don't think there's anything to it. Just as, "Hiroki", there's nothing going on here. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:34, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

Well, let's see if the Uchū no Ushi-Otoko owns up to his accusing me of being a Nazi and apologizes. If not, another ANI thread should be opened and it will no doubt lead to a swift block. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 05:39, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Eh? Are we speaking Japanese now? Tanoshi! Hachi-ju-hachi kun, watashi no namae was Uchu no bokudo desu. Ushi-otoko wa chigau. Hachi-ju-hachi kun wa san ju sai desu ka? Dakara namai wa hachi-ju-hachi?

Jeez my Japanese is awful. I guess I should rely on google translate next time, rather than my limited ability, but that was fun. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 07:18, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Your taking my pun about your being a were-bull as literally as you have makes it clear that this is not a good-faith ribbing on your part. I am 30 by traditional east-Asian reckoning, but 29 by most other standards. My user page contains a clear explanation of my username's origin. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 07:42, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Don't take things to seriously, actually I didn't know Ushi-otoko meant were-bull, I assumed it was just a direct translation of "cow"+"boy" and yeah, you're 30 - that's what I assumed to be your reason for choosing 88 in your name. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 07:58, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

I don't think you'll find the word "were-bull" in a dictionary of any language, but that's the way "ushi-otoko" comes across ("werewolf" is ōkami-otoko "wolf-man"). "Cowboy" is usually kaubōi in Japanese—I didn't even know the word bokudō, and my fifteen-year-old couldn't even guess what the kanji meant (I think "cowherd" is likely a better translation, going by the kanji 牧童, but WWWJDIC give only "cowboy, shephard").

Have I successfully sucked all the humour out of the conversation? Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 08:10, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, you pretty much have. :P I actually first thought of kaubōi, but that would not be as humorously yamatokotoba-esque as our old shiroki itachi, so I went with ushi-otoko; the ōkami-otoko connection came to me retroactively, and I made up "were-bull" (as opposed to "were-cow", which would imply that simultaneous to the species change was a gender change) based on this. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 08:19, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

The first thing that popped into my head when I saw that was "supernatural BS" Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 08:35, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Well, yeah, that's the point; his actual name is a clear reference to the song, but I'm 99% certain that a Japanese translation of the song doesn't take "space cowboy" literally; I decided to take it one step further by literally translating "cow-boy" and upping the absurdity to 11. Funny aside: one of my former places of employment had in its lobby a mosaic titled "宇宙を遊泳するイルカ", but perspective being as it is the dolphin looked positively enormous and terrifying; I was on a Marvel Comics kick at the time, and joked that it looked more like "宇宙を遊泳して星を食う巨大なイルカ". Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 09:15, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Either way, it sounds like an idea a space cowboy dreamed up. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 09:25, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

It could be a Jamiroquai reference, especially as the "Stoned Again" mix would fit well with the "420".

But no, you're right it is a reference to the Joker. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 09:36, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Now that you've admitted it, we know it can't be true. We'll have to dig deeper. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 09:58, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

I agree. It's Cowboy Bebop. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 10:00, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

No, it's Major Kong. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 10:10, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

[5] [6] [7]

Pretty hilarious. An editor who really, really dislikes me, and never otherwise posts to ANI unless it's in a thread about him, shows up to undermine me, and the editor I reported thanks him as a "neutral third party".

Any lingering doubt I had that SC420 was trolling is basically gone at this point. Maybe we should just ping the admin who blocked him last time he made counter- consensus IDHT edits on a BLP?

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 08:53, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

Yikes—that's disturbing. I think I made it clear at the Momokuro article that I'm not AingGF with SC420, regardless of any jocularity above. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 09:44, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

If you want to use your Talk Page as your own personal forum, that's fine, but don't talk negatively about other users behind their backs. Tagging: @Adamstom.97: DarkKnight2149 14:51, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

Hi, stalker! I've said "fuck" sooooo' so many times in the last few days—even at ANI! Where's that ARBCOM report you keep promising? Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:17, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

A simple use of the word "fuck" isn't disruptive. The use if the word "fuck" in a personal attack is, however. But thanks for feeding me another diff of your generally uncivil attitude, particularly when I'm only here to tag another user to let them know they're being talked about behind their back. On that note, bye! DarkKnight2149 22:17, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

Nobody believes you're "only here" for any reason other than to plot your vengeance. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:06, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

Oh, and look at this. Two disruptive editors plotting their vengeance together, hand in hand. Oh, spring! Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:51, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

@Darkknight2149: Behind whose back? CT and I both know that Spacecowboy420 is watching this discussion -- he even joined in! I, on the other hand, was completely unaware that you were talking about me on your talk page. I don't really care all that much, but if you are going to criticize me for something I didn't do, the least you could do is not engage in it yourself. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 06:33, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

@Hijiri88: I refer to Adamstom. And the discussion on my Talk Page was mainly about Curly and the collective final warning. You were only mentioned in passing in a discussion referenced by this one and directly branching from it. DarkKnight2149 06:55, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Just double checked. I listed off the users warned, but you otherwise weren't mentioned. With Adamstom, you were directly saying unsavory things about him behind his back. You were already aware about the warning and the Talk page discussion is linked and came from here. DarkKnight2149 07:03, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

The reference to me on your talk page was less "in passing" than the reference to 97 above. And you do not appear to have notified Curly Turkey of the discussion that was "mainly about" him. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 07:05, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

That's Nixon Now rather than DK, though. Let it go, Hijiri—if DK wants to make friends with someone who makes edits like this, I don't think "the Cabal" has anything to worry about. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 07:10, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

CT, have you noticed how 2149 has recently become very fond of the shortcut WP:SANCTIONGAMING? I took a look at it, and it seems to say the opposite of ... whatever he seems to think. Thing is, though, I never saw SANCTIONGAMING invoked until 2149 started doing it last week, and apparently the reason for that is that it's essentially a trademark of User:SMcCandlish (it's linked from about a dozen pages, and as far as I can see every single one that is not 2149 is SMcC), an editor who is nothing if not reasonable, so I'd be kinda interested in seeing what he thinks of this. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 07:46, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Now that I've read it, I wonder why it's titled SANCTIONGAMING, as it doesn't seem to have anything to do with sanctions. I wouldn't put much weight into anything DK links to, anyways, after his performance at those two ANIs—I really believe he doesn't understand what he did wrong. Which makes things so much worse, in a way, especially with this martyr complex he carries around. I should stop being surprised at him, but I honestly never thought even he would stoop to accepting help from such a black-and-white, unrepentant POV-pusher as NN. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 08:01, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

I wonder why it's titled SANCTIONGAMING, as it doesn't seem to have anything to do with sanctions Yeah, I know. I first saw it out of context and assumed it meant taking advantage of other editors' preexisting sanctions in order to win disputes (like what certain editors did repeatedly with an IBAN I appealed last March). his performance at those two ANIs Wait, which ones? I only recall one recently, but since you weren't involved I suspect that's not what you're referring to. such a black-and-white, unrepentant POV-pusher as NN Why would you call Nocturnalnow (talk · contribs) an unrepentant POV-pusher? You and he seem to be basically on the same "side". :P But seriously, abbreviating people's usernames in cases like this is a bitch. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 08:20, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

I meant the two that got him in trouble—the canvassing one, and the one that got him TBANned. I don't think Nocturnalnow is really on my "side" (we've disagreed as much as we've agreed on things), so much as we're both exasperated with Nixon Now. But Nocnow can speak for himself. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 08:29, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Meh. People still tell me that I'm your "friend" who does your dirty work for you, and I've long since given up on pointing out that you and I actually disagree more often than we agree, with most of our agreement being in non-controversial cases where the policy is clear, like the Momokuro thing. If you and Nocturnalnow both agree that Nixon Now's edits are inappropriate, that makes you "allies" in the narrative that, while I know it's wrong, I'm increasingly coming to accept as something we just have to work with. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 08:36, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

NN hasn't spun it that way yet, but the way NN keeps making up stories about me (in the past couple days NN's accused me of being both pro- and anti-Doug Ford), I'm sure they inevitably will. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 08:59, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Well, I'm sure when he does and posts it on someone's talk page, 2149 will tell them both off for not notifying us, like he totally told 97 and 420 off for talking about me without notifying me. Oh... wait... no, he'll tell you off for noticing it by accident and discussing it with me or someone else. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:44, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

I think the SANCTIONGAMING thing means gaming to avoid sanctionability. Probably needs a better shortcut. I didn't write the section or the shortcut. The material there's important, and it's hilarious that someone is citing it ass-backwardsly to mean the opposite of what it says. There are always people like that on a system this large (and we have more than average because the nature of the project attracts obsessives and cranks). As for ANI and intimidation, just don't be intimidated. The purpose of it is for the community to see if there's a real issue to address, and more often than not they collectively decide there isn't and that the person opening the report is at least as much at fault (sometimes even when they're not, but when they can't get their point across well). This is one reason I really, really rarely ever go there even when I think I'm right. The default presumption at this point is that you're a full-of-shit troublemaker if you open an ANI and the evidence you have isn't ironclad, obvious, and self-explanatory.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  02:49, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

How dare you slander the ANI volunteer cops so! Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 03:01, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

I bookmarked the diffs that NN sent me, but am otherwise unfamiliar with this user. If you can show me diffs of such "black and white" vandalism, I'll be happy to look at them. I'm not sure how one conversation gave you the idea that we're now Batman and Robin but, in terms of accusing other users of disruption (especially those who call out your behaviour), you honestly don't hold much credibility at this point. I don't doubt that you have dealt with genuine disruption in the past, but the only thing I really want is for you to be honest and civil, and to stop gaming the system for your own ends. I myself have been wondering at times whether or not you believe your own lies, but there's no excuse for some of the things you say and do (which were and are clearly deliberate).

Of course, I know you'll deny until the end of time, so I don't know why I'm trying to get through to you. Maybe it's because of your extensive contributions or whatever, but if I have to report one of you, I will be covering every single moment with diffs to back it up (which means I will have to simultaneously report several other users, who were specifically tagged at the final warning). If you won't behave for yourself, do it for them. You can deny responsibility, but it would be wise for you to take what I'm saying into consideration instead of spinning a deeper web as you are now. DarkKnight2149 16:30, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

He's fixated on a two month old edit where I referred to a politician who was revealed to have been a mid-level drug dealer in his youth by a quality newspaper's investigative report as a "former drug dealer" when I should have said "alleged former drug dealer" or perhaps "alleged former hashish wholesaler" or "non-pharmaceutical entrepreneur" or something. Nixon Now (talk) 17:00, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

You're seeing him in action right now, Darkknight2149—he made this edit to Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario leadership election, 2018 smack in the middle of the campaign, and has been making similar edits to Doug Ford Jr. (and editwarring over them) ever since. Swarm warned him he'd be topic banned if he ever pulled such a stunt again, and the article is now under WP:1RR. Notice how the wording has nothing to do with it (see how he's trying to pull your strings?). As many of us do, NN dislikes Doug Ford (a polarizing political figure)—the difference is that the rest of us keep our POV out of article space. I'm not the first to notice it, but I'm the one who wouldn't let him get away with it—thus the thirst for vengeance. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 22:05, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

I don't edit political articles, but that actually does look pretty bad. DarkKnight2149 01:35, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Nice spin. CT thinks he's Batman but Clark Kent would have a different view. See this. Nixon Now (talk) 01:47, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

@Nixon Now:As much as I hate correcting someone on unimportant pop culture minutiae when they appear to be exclusively focused on more "serious" topics, did you mean to say CT thinks he's Superman or but Bruce Wayne would have a different view? Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 01:51, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

I don't, Hiriji88. Superman is polite and "lawful good", if you like. Batman is a vigilante who seethes with anger. And Clark Kent is a reporter who recognizes legitimate journalism. Nixon Now (talk) 05:08, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

And Nixon Now is a POV-pusher who thinks legitimate journalism can be used as a weapon in an encyclopaedia article. For anyone watching—the drug charges are in the article, and I explicitly supported having it in there (take a look at Talk:Doug Ford Jr.#Request for comment: Globe and Mail investigative report). Nixon Now won't settle for simply having it in there—he'll use it as a descriptor, and will add it to the Table of Contents (edtiwarring to keep it in) despite both WP:BLP and near-unanimous consensus against it (it's still there!). Nixon Now is a menace to the neutrality of the article. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 05:28, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

I don't think he has a fucking clue what he's talking about---or cares, as long as it distracts from examining his violations. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 03:33, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

−

As I said, "a vigilante who seethes with anger." Nixon Now (talk) 15:14, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

You know, words are supposed to mean things. Except in your case, when they're only meant to distract. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:17, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Words do mean things which is why I object when you embellish and exaggerate, as you habitually do. I'm not surprised though as you seem to have trouble with any word that has more than four letters. Nixon Now (talk) 13:42, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

You won't be satisfied until we're back at ANI, will you? Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 20:48, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

If you keep engaging in ad hominems, as per your last contribution to Talk:Doug Ford, you may well end up there. Nixon Now (talk) 23:33, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Unless there is a blatant personal attack or disruption that is overtly disruptive in an obvious manner (and only such), I will have to ask that you not tag me in such an ANI report. I have not been following this topic dispute, I generally don't edit political articles, and am perfectly content with not being dragged into whatever this is. DarkKnight2149 16:05, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

CT seems to be behaving better lately. I'll leave it to you to monitor his behaviour elsewhere and to proceed with a complaint if he regresses. Nixon Now (talk) 11:52, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

Read: "CT called my bluff, and it's getting harder and harder to get away with shit on that page." Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:02, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

Hi

I did a complete re-write of the article about Lill-Babs that died a few days ago. If you find time for it, take a look. Any help is appreciated.BabbaQ (talk) 14:52, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

ANI notice

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Nixon Now (talk) 12:28, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

Well! That one imploded in about the most embarrassing way it could. Maybe certain people have figured out by now that Nixon Now was NEVERHERE in the first place? Ironic, given how valiantly they battled socks at Doug Ford Jr. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:26, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Books & Bytes - Issue 27

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 27, February – March 2018

• #1Lib1Ref
• New collections
  • Alexander Street (expansion)
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• User Group
• Global branches update
  • Wiki Indaba Wikipedia + Library Discussions
• Spotlight: Using librarianship to create a more equitable internet: LGBTQ+ advocacy as a wiki-librarian
• Bytes in brief

Arabic, Chinese and French versions of Books & Bytes are now available in meta!
Read the full newsletter

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:50, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

Did you know ...

... that BLPs were subject to discretionary sanctions?[8] 'Cause I didn't!

That might actually be a better option in the long-run than an ANEW or ANI block request. AE is, in my experience, faster and more effective than ANI in cases like this. Mind you, we might well be stuck just waiting for them to pull the same stunt again, now that the page is protected. Sorry for the fuck-up on that front -- things happened a lot faster than I expected.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 12:35, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

Afraid I can't forgive you, Hijiri—experience shows there's a bottomless barrel of "second chances" for these kinds of editors. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:33, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

E-mail

Blocked + one other. Thanks very much.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:01, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

Singular they

Hi CT! Re [9]: I had in mind cases where it's neither known nor assumed. --Middle 8 (t • c | privacy • COI) 01:08, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Middle 8: In which case, the example should probably be changed, as the point (and it's an important point) is that singular they is used even when the gender is known—for example: "If one of the boys comes over, tell them to wait downstairs for me." Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 01:14, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Agreed, that is the point and it needs an unambiguous example, which the current one actually is if we note its context: apparently, a place and time where same-sex marriage was not legal. Absent a better, citable example along the lines of yours, I'm thinking that mentioning that context, perhaps in a footnote, would do the trick. --Middle 8 (t • c | privacy • COI) 03:12, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Archived links in Garage rock article

I noticed that a bot removed some of the archived links we had in the Garage rock article. I was wondering if we should reinstate them? Gobble gobble. Garagepunk66 (talk) 02:20, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Removed them? Without replacing or updating them? That's strange—did they still work? Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 02:22, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 25

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Facial hair in the military, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Meiji (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver).

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 09:05, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Chōsen-seki

Hi, thank you for setting a clarify tag on Chōsen-seki. I noticed it and tried to make some clarification. I confess rather I am unclear to ethnic minority issues but I tried my best to check facts at least. You are welcome to give a second look and reassess it. Cheers, --Aphaia (talk) 22:01, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Aphaia: thanks for that. Now all it needs is a citation! Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:00, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Reply:Page moves

Good day Sir, thank you for the reminder, due to the articles of famous Japanese characters like Kido Takayoshi, Saigō Takamori, Kondō Isami, Saitō Hajime, etc, most of them are SURNAME-FORENAME based, I am not fully aware that I had go against the MOS:JAPAN. The article Yamashita Tomoyuki page move was approved at the Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical requests (view history), and it shall ends there. I had stopped and I will apologies for all inconvenience caused. I will offer to undo the process should you give a green light.

Rqiang84: This is a problem: the rationale Ammarpad gave conflicts with MOS:JAPAN "Ammarpad moved page Tomoyuki Yamashita to Yamashita Tomoyuki without leaving a redirect: Requested by Rqiang84 at WP:RM/TR: Japanese names of famous people should at best starts with Surname first, see Kido Takayoshi, Saigo Takamori, Saito Hajime, etc". Historical (particularly pre-Meiji) figures are normally given SURNAME-FORENAME, but Tomoyuki Yamashita falls squarely in the modern era (born late in the Meiji era, and his notability is for being a WWII general). This will almost certainly face resistance from WP:JAPAN. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 11:11, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Have you seen yet, or are planning to see, Infinity War?

I kinda wanna vent about something that just happened (specifically I suspect another user was "triggered" by my linking referencing a concept in feminist literary criticism), but it would involve spoiling parts of the film. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 00:10, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Never mind. It turns out he was triggered by my pointing out the film was targeted at children, and in a drive-by "I'm-going-to-have-the-last-word-and-say-you're-wrong-but-then-immediately-shut-down-the-conversation" comment claimed that he wouldn't take children to the films because of the "mature-nature of a lot of their content", presumably referring to the sophisticated storytelling, since they almost universally disdain explicit sexual content, realistic violence and swearing -- as though sophisticated storytelling was something that should be hidden from children or having a sophisticated story (or even sophisticated subtext) automatically disbars the films from being classified as entertainment for children, because no children's media ever embraced sophisticated storytelling. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 00:57, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Is Infinity War superheroes? In that case, spoil away—I won't be watching. What you're describing honestly sounds like an awfully typical basement-dwelling superhero fan to me—desperately needing to declare Frank Miller's illiterate drivel as "literature", yada yada yada. I totally relate to deriving pleasure from indefensibly mindless entertainment—I love heavy metal—but, Jesus Christ, recognize it as such ... and yes, there's nothing wrong per se with "children's literature", but try explaining that to an illiterate ... Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 03:46, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, superheroes. It's the third Avengers film. The interesting thing is that both this film and the previous one have made it a running joke that precisely because they are family films "shit" can only be said once per film and "fuck" can only be "implied". A post-credits scene in the latest film has Samuel L. Jackson's character die suddenly and when he realizes what is happening he utters "Motherf...".

Basically in the opening scene of the film, it is revealed that almost the entire supporting cast of a previous film (Thor: Ragnarok) were killed off-screen, including a female character who was basically the breakout character of that film, and their deaths don't really serve any purpose to the story beyond motivating one of the principal male characters. Later on in the film, a popular female character from the Guardians of the Galaxy films is killed (technically "sacrificed") by the primary male villain who has a personal connection to her, and the revelation that he had fetherly feelings for her serves as character development for him, and later her death serves as motivation for one of the male heroes who had romantic feelings for her. The latter is the very definition of Women in Refrigerators. I alluded to this fact (implicitly citing a vlog by a prominent comic book reviewer, which is also the only source I've located that even mentions that those Thor characters were killed off-screen). I initially thought I was getting heat for saying that the film is "bad" for offending my feminist sensibilities (attempts to bring postcolonial and other criticisms to related articles met with similar responses from the same user), which would have shown a very immature appreciation of media -- that it's impossible to talk about a problem in said media and still enjoy them.

Then it turned out that the problem was arguably even sillier. See, at the end of the film the bad guy wins, gets all the magic space rocks he needs, snaps his fingers and kills "half of all life in the universe". In the film, this means that a lot of name characters, who were the stars of their own films and who are probably the favourite characters of a lot of boys and girls under the age of ten, whose parents have probably spent a lot of money on action figures of those characters, are wipedd out instantly. I saw a late show in a fairly bad part of Osaka, so everyone in my screening was a mature adult and well aware that Part II will almost certainly undo this, but a lot of the reviews I have seen/read were by people who heard children leaving the cinema in tears. I admittedly may be reading said reviews in light of Transformers: The Movie (not the Michael Bay one) because two separate critics I follow have produced hour-long treatises on that film in the last few months that focused significantly on how annoyed parents were that it had killed off all their children's heroes.

But the claim by one of the principal authors of the Wikipedia article is apparently that it doesn't matter because parents shouldn't be showing these super-cereal adult movies to their children to begin with. It really weirds me out that this is the interpretation of the principal author of dozens of our articles on superhero films and television series (he appears to be basically the sole author of all 70 or so articles linked to from this list). He's entitled to his opinion if he wants to see the films as sophisticated stories that if you show them to children it will make them cry -- heck, I actually agree with him if that's the case, the difference being that I don't pretend that they don't get 90% of their revenues from parents taking their kids to the films and buying their kids all the toys and other tie-in merchandise. But if I or anyone else tried to add the claim that a number of critics noted that the ending was likely to make the principal audience of children cry would we be reverted because the article's "owner" doesn't think the principal audience is (or is meant to be) children?

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 06:26, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

I'm assuming the editor-in-question is North American. I don't know what things are like in Ireland, but North Americans really have a stick up their asses about what is "acceptable" for children. I remember how much parents (not mine, thank goodness) got tied in knots over the violence in the first TMNT cartoon series—then there was the censorship of the violence in Power Rangers—and it seems things have gotten only worse. It's particularly comical after having spent nearly twenty years in Japan. Did you know the only way the could bring Crayon Shin-chan out in English was to make it age-restricted to adults? (They really went the whole nine yards with it then—my youngest found an episode on YouTube, and I shut it off after two minutes when they started making syphilis jokes. But the point is that they could never have shown straight translations to children in North America with the Zō-san, zō-san schtick.) Said editor is probably not alone in sincerely thinking that anything more "mature" than Bananas in Pyjamas is too risqué for kids. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 10:43, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

The user identifies as a New Zealander on their user page, but I think the same probably applies. In Ireland, we were basically subject to British censorship guidelines, since most of our television stations came from there (it would have been really weird if Irish TV showed different versions of shows than UK TV): I literally grew up thinking "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" was a spin-off of "Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles" because they weren't allowed use the word "ninja" or show nunchaku until sometime between the 1987 show and the 2003 revival. People are entitled to their opinions regarding what they want to show their kids, but the merchandise tie-ins for superhero films are almost exclusively targeted at pre-teens, so it's a safe assumption that the films are meant to be appreciated by naive optimists who might want to stop playing with their toys because the characters are all dead. It's a really balls-y move on the filmmakers' part (even though it was obvious to every adult watching that it's going to be undone), but with RSes talking about how balls-y a move it was (or how potentially problematic it was given who the films are made for) it really should be in the article. I dunno ... maybe I just find it problematic that someone who can hardly bear to allow "the film is targeted at children" to be uttered on the talk page is the sole arbiter of dozens of articles on the topic. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:02, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Yes, but like I keep saying, that behaviour comes part-and-parcel with the eidtorship you must "collaborate" with when editing in that subject area. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:31, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Tangible Folk Cultural Properties edit

Hi, and thank you for your edits to the List of Important Tangible Folk Cultural Properties. Regarding this edit, the and ??? referred to 改良形用具. Do you have any idea how to translate this part? bamse (talk) 14:01, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

• bamse It's something like "restored tangible items". I don't know what the items are, so I can't give a better translation. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:23, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Someone tried to log in to my account?

I just got a notice that someone tried (and failed) to log in to my account. I haven't logged in recently ... so ... someone with a grudge? Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 03:48, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

I don't know, but I got one as well, so I guess it might have been a mass assault or just a glitch. Imaginatorium (talk) 05:27, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Me too, just after midnight Japan time.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 13:01, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Another "There have been multiple failed attempts to log in to your account from a new device. Please make sure your account has a strong password." WTactualF?--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 05:07, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

... creepy ... Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 06:04, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

May 2018

This message contains important information about an administrative situation on Wikipedia. It does not imply any misconduct regarding your own contributions to date.

Please carefully read this information:

The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding discussions about infoboxes and to edits adding, deleting, collapsing, or removing verifiable information from infoboxes, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you that sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.

As ArbCom are advising that this is used where appropriate, it's probably best you get this, if you were unaware of the new restriction. SchroCat (talk) 10:13, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Jesus fucking Christ, SchroCat—I thought you at least had a sense of fucking humour. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 10:45, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Ordinarily I do, but it's been warn rather thin, given the pushing (by others) on this page and a string of other articles. - SchroCat (talk) 10:51, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Agreed—any sense of humor I once had about infoboxes is long gone. Curly Turkey, it's best that you see the DS notice anyway since this is (finally) getting some admin attention. Bish has been sensible but of course there are admins working WP:AE that are more of the gunslinger disposition. We all know you can be blocked for jokes, posting YouTube videos, and so on. --Laser brain (talk) 11:29, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

So let 'em block away—it'd be a good one for Tony1's talk page. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 11:50, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Yōshoku?

I was unaware that this word refer[red] to a style of Western-influenced [Japanese cuisine] which originated during the Meiji Restoration. I mean, I know at in English it tends to be used more for "western-style" food that was actually invented in Japan, but even then specifying that by definition it originated during the Meiji Restoration (not even the Meiji period, but specifically the Meiji Restoration!) seems like bullshit. And it probably should say that in Japanese the word just means "western food, whether or not it originates in Japan". And the more I read the messier it gets -- yeah, castella might be called 洋食, but it predates Meiji... Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 08:27, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

The first thing you should have done is click through to ja:洋食, where it says "広義では西洋料理から西洋風の料理全般を指し、狭義では日本で独自に発展した西洋風の料理を指す日本料理の一カテゴリーである"—which I interpret as meaning that there are prescriptionists who insist yōshoku should be applied to Western-influenced J-food, but most people don't give two shits and (as you've observed) apply it to Western (or Western-influenced) meals in general. Notice I say "meal"—in my experience, it's not applied to "food" in general, so castella (or ice cream, or Snickers) aren't really called yōshoku (I double-checked with my eldest, and she said, "Yōshoku isn't dessert.").

I guess, in the context of a subject that deserves an article, the definition is "correct", in the sense that the 広義 would make yōshoku just a plain old word unworthy of an article. Of course, the article's problematic as it is, aside from easily fixable blunders such as "Meiji Restoration"—but rather than "Meiji period", I imagine ja:文明開化 might be more appropriate—astoundingly, we have no article on that, and it ain't for lack of sources! (there's some low-hanging for for someone to jump on). Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 22:46, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Jesus. Good catch. Kinda wish I noticed it before November; coulda saved me some time trying to put together enough material to make a non-stub article about one or more of the more obscure topics I was working on. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 23:26, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Probably big enough topic to have sucked your time and energy away from working up enough other articles. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 00:34, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 14

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Sharaku, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Ebisu (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver).

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Infobox photo discussion

Hi. Can you offer your opinion in this discussion? Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 18:50, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

MORE funny Asuka/Nara personal names

[10] Five months late to the punch on this one, but I was just scrolling through the page, noticed this, and initially thought I had made a misprint. "Uno no Obito Ohito"? (笑) Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:12, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

• I was about to give up and ask you to decifer it, and then I looked up 首. You might want to leave a hidden note to protect it. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 11:44, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Do you really think anyone is going to notice it? Anyone who looked at the list close enough to notice it by accident would also notice that the italic readings are only for entries where a direct transcription of Japanese text is different from the "name" of the entry, so there being italic text at all makes it obvious that "Uno no Obito Ohito" was meant to be different "Uno no Ohito". And most of those entries are such because the Japanese text includes the kabane, a lot of which can be assumed to have weird readings. And there are already three other Obitos in the list, and an Obitomaro. I only thought it was a misprint because I know most entries on the list started by being copy-pasted and I'm sometimes clumsy.

Wait, unless you were joking? 'Cause if you weren't, I think we've changed places and you're the straight man now.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 13:17, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

No, I'm not joking. There are hardly any eyes on that page, so if someone years from now sees it and "fixes" it, you can't be confident that you'll see the change on your watchlist. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 20:49, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

This one's not bad either. I mean, I know kuruma basically just means a wheeled vehicle, but given how it's used now the name just brings a funny image to mind. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 07:36, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

He's Superman! Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 08:27, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Mottainai Grandma

The article Mottainai Grandma has been proposed for deletion. The proposed deletion notice added to the article should explain why.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Hijiri 88 (聖やや)

Do DF's recent AFD comments look to you like he intends to turn Mottainai Grandma into a POVFORK of Mottainai after we excised most of the bullshit "ancient Chinese secret" stuff from the latter? 'Cause they look like that to me. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 23:49, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

• No, they just look like they continue to refuse to concede the point. I don't think they're going to touch the article. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 04:08, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, reading his still more recent comments, it seems you're probably right. It now looks more like he's just trolling us by pretending like he walked away from the original dispute because everyone but him was behaving poorly, rather than because there was a clear consensus against his edits and he knew he'd wind up TBANned or blocked if he dug in any further. That he'd write this after I'd already withdrawn the AFD clearly shows that fixing or "rescuing" the article is not his concern. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 09:21, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

What's really remarkable is he thought he could actually pull a fast one with such an easily falsifiable assertion. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 09:30, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

• Did I hear my name? Maybe I should explain a bit. In 10 years of editing Wikipedia, I have been involved in two edit disputes. Both times were started as attempts to help editors who were being subjected to what seemed to me like bullying, and both times I was sorry for getting involved, because all it got me was to have my contributions belittled and my competence questioned, followed by threats to have me edit banned. The last time ended like this, after which I almost quit. You have to ask if you want to remain involved in a project that lets users get away with behavior like this. But whatever. Since then the two worst behaved (POV reversions) editors have retired and I haven't been back. As far as I'm concerned it's over.
  

Obviously this time isn't anywhere near as serious, but my concerns were basically the same. As far as I can recall, I have never used words like "bullshit" or "worthless" to describe contributions by another editor. I dislike condescending to anyone because of a lack of language skills. And the reversions. I really think that should be a last resort, not the first. But then I don't know, maybe all this just means I ought to stay away from controversial topics.

About the "plagiarism" charge. I will admit that the way I write may look like close paraphrasing to people like you and Tony. But I think there should be a range that would allow it. If there isn't I'll just stop, because it's not what I believe.

It was about 40 years ago that I arrived here as a graduate exchange student to study Japanese literature (waka). After studying modern and Romantic poetry I wanted to study the real thing, and for me this was it. That's still what I want in more or less everything I do. The real thing. I've mentioned elsewhere my belief that once you get beyond dates and facts the same thought in different words is a different thought. That's more or less all I have to say about it. If it's not enough, fine, I'll be quiet.– Margin1522 (talk) 11:02, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

Oh,sorry, looks like this was about someone else. Anyway, that was my say. Now that's it's off my chest I'll go away. – Margin1522 (talk) 11:15, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

Clarify?

Can you clarify or remove this comment at AN3 please? It is either an inscrutable reference to private matters or it must be a gibe against someone. The report is about to get archived anyway, and no further action is expected. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 16:00, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

EdJohnston: It's a gibe against myself, already clarified in this diff two comments earlier. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 20:17, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:JoeShusterAward2007Logo.jpg

⚠

Thanks for uploading File:JoeShusterAward2007Logo.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. — trlkly 07:51, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

• trlkly: It appears it's orphaned because you replaced the .jpg of the file with a .png of it, so I'm not really sure what this notice is for ... ? Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 08:01, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Sorry. It's policy to inform the uploader. It's part of the automated tools. You're basically there to confirm it was replaced with a valid image, I guess. If so, then just let the JPEG get delete. — trlkly 08:07, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Would appreciate your opinion on an FAC

The image reviewer on my current FAC has raised a couple concerns that I'm not sure are valid. One is about whether or not a caption needs a citation, the other is about whether the full cover image needs to be used. She has significantly more experience with FAs than I do, so I thought solicit your opinion before moving forward. You can reply here or at the FAC - she openly invited opinions from other editors on the second point. Argento Surfer (talk) 12:54, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Argento Surfer: The bit with the full cover is a grey area, as we're dealing with fair use, which is a legal area. As we can't determine how many images constitutes legitimate free use without a court determining the particular case, it's best to keep fair-use images to an absolute minimum (zero, if possible). As neither you nor Nikkimaria are lawyers, neither of you can determine whether it crosses the legal line; Nikki defaults to erring on the side of caution. If you feel strongly about it, you can refuse to change the image, and if Nikki doesn't feel strongly enough about it to oppose, you could get it through. As an alternative, you could recrop the image so that it's (say) a quarter of the cover, which would both show the context and highlight the bit you want to highlight.

As for the caption—it definitely needs a cite, but it doesn't have to be in the caption. It should be mentioned in the body to justify having an illustration (basically, all the information in the article should be in the body). For that reason, I'd also move the Perez-vs-Lim caption to the body and give the image a more minimal caption. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:00, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

I think I'll remove the film image. It's vaguely cited in the body by two sources that say the film draws inspiration from the comic, but I'm not going to find a reliable source that says that specific promo image is. I'll just trust that anyone who cares enough to reach the bottom of the article will be familiar with the film's imagery.

The Perez-Lim caption is a combination of information from the Production and Reception sections. I repeated it in the caption to avoid questions of why those images were necessary.

Your suggestion for the cover is a good compromise. I'll see what she thinks of it. Thanks! Argento Surfer (talk) 12:59, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

"Children's picture book" = "novel" = "popular history (nonfiction) book"?

He's at it again.

I really don't want to be the one to fix this, especially given that he's definitely going to accuse me of "hounding" him for checking his contribs for the errors I know he's going to make, and he did make even while the ANI thread was still open. Yeah, provoking him into hurling a string of attacks against me would likely get him blocked, but I really don't want to have to file another ANI report immediately after the last one was closed, even if the closer did tell me that next time he does it I can point to the last one and the warning.

Would you mind changing "novel" to "book"? I hate to ask you to take responsibility for this somewhat dubious content by fixing that detail but not blanking or fixing the whole sentence. The cited source says around 150 letters were used, but it doesn't necessarily imply they were the main resource as our text does, and verifying the content is more work than it's normally worth in cases like this -- it's a given that such works utilize primary sources, which in the case of eighteenth-century colonial America probably would be mostly letters, so the content is pretty meaningless as written.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 13:27, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

I just noticed that the other "part" of the edit is also characteristically ungrammatical: "the Culper's spy ring" is not used in either the source or our article. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 13:31, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Huh.[11] So it seems he's monitoring my edits, even though he doesn't have a good-faith reason, and also doesn't know what a non-fiction novel is. I wonder if presenting this user's refusal to understand why his content edits are bad would have been a more productive approach than talking about his harassment. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 20:14, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

TBC, I think the text should probably read The book incorporates research done on roughly 150 letters. Giving Rose's full name twice in a row is terrible writing, even if it was a non-fiction novel naming and linking the literary genre in this manner would be super-awkward, and saying the book incorporates "research on letters" is probably equivalent to saying the the book incorporates "research", so the number of letters is important. Naming Washington and the spy ring can be taken or left, although honestly if I'm interpreting the source correctly it would be more accurate and interesting to say the letters were by George Washington and "Samuel Culper", a codename used by those in the spy ring, although a clearer source would be needed for this. All in all, just a mess. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 21:47, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Hey, Dream Focus—I'm not interested in getting in a dispute over this, but Hijiri's criticisms are on the mark. I tried googling for "novel" in reference to this book, and got nothing, and the prose was certainly awkward. I've taken a stab at what I hope is a non-controversial rewording. Do you have anything to say about it? Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 22:57, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

A novel is defined as "a fictitious prose narrative of book length, typically representing character and action with some degree of realism." While searching for information about the show I found [12] Amazon's Editorial Review of the show says "In this action-packed spy thriller--based on Alexander Rose critically acclaimed novel Washington's Spies,", and I found Google news results that called it a novel. [13] [14] [15] I also found articles about the differences between the characters on the show and the real life people they were based on. After determining that the book itself was non-fiction, and reading the article at non-fiction novel, and multiple people that bought it and posted reviews at Amazon and elsewhere said it read like a novel, I figured that was probably the best term for it. I don't really care if you call it a novel or a book though.

The cited source said "about 150", I unable to find any other source mentioning that number. Note that at the top of the Wikipedia article for Culper Ring, above the picture, it says "Culper Spy Ring" and some of the sources do say "Culper Spy Ring". This includes the Encyclopedia Britannica. [16] And honestly now, as large as Wikipedia is, surely you have other things to concern yourselves with other than me saying "novel" instead of "book" at times. Dream Focus 00:53, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Dream Focus: I concern myself with Wikipedia articles reflecting the scholarly consensus of their subjects—"novel" in this case fails in spades (and I hope you're not in the habit of using Amazon as a source). Your last sentence is a remarkable thing to say to any fellow editor, and is difficult to read as anything other than: "Keep your fucking hands off my articles." If you break something, and I learn about, I will fix it. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 01:41, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

DF: Sources about a television series based on the book are not, generally, reliable sources for the content or even format of the book itself. Most shows that are based on books are based on novels, as in works of fiction, so they may have mistakenly assumed that this was the case here, but the sources discussing Washington's Spies specifically do not present it as a novel. Not having checked the book myself I cannot say for certain which it is, but I would be much more inclined to follow the reliable sources that are actually about the book. As for "Culper Spy Ring", etc., please re-read my comment to which you are responding. Your original edit referred to it as "the Culper's spy ring", which wording is not supported by your argument. Maybe some sources do use it, but it honesly looks ugly, and so would need to have overwhelming acceptance for it to be worthh sacrificing our preferred style. Anyway, I would advise you to be careful regarding saying things like And honestly now, as large as Wikipedia is, surely you have other things to concern yourselves with other than me saying "novel" instead of "book" at times. CT might interpret this as meaning "Keep your mitts off my articles", but I honestly think it looks a lot more like "stop stalking me". Note that this was a claim made multiple times in the month or so before JoshuSasori (talk · contribs) got himself blocked, and its also one of the personal attacks for which you were recently censured. Yes, I and most of the commenters were primarily concerned with a particular group of attacks, but "You are stalking/following/hounding me" is still a personal attack, and you are strongly advised to avoid saying things that could be read that way. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 05:51, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Citing a source whose title is apparently "You Have Reached a 404 Page"

This is pretty hilarious. Presumably he can see something that neither I nor the reFill tool he used can see, but ... Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 09:27, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

A strange error on their website. If you go to http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2017/12/solar_roads_are_almost_definitely_not_the_future.html and scroll down past that article it shows another one, and the address bar of the browser then changes on its own to http://www.slate.com/technology/2018/06/why-china-import-half-world-used-plastic.html thus the mistake. I have honestly never seen that happen before. Read the article, copy and pasted the address, no reason to suspect their website just changed it on my like that. Dream Focus 10:01, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

That's happened to me before. I hate it. Argento Surfer (talk) 20:11, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

It might be that the page blocks bots from accessing it, so when the script tried to get the title, it got a 404. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 03:59, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

More funny ancient Japanese names

So a month ago we had a guy whose kabane was almost identical to his personal name and Superman; now we have Super Mario. Sadly it doesn't seem to be known what his court rank, if any, may have been, because "従七位下水道" would have been pretty hilarious. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 01:48, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

• You're wasting these tidbits on the audience here, you know? Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 04:02, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

Books & Bytes – Issue 28

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:33, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Irrelevant venting about our RWBY article

"Anime-style" is a really questionable turn of phrase by itself in that context, but I'm having trouble wrapping my head about what to do with the quote Funnily enough, we showed our Japanese cohorts RWBY and they started arguing about whether it was anime or not! Obviously, 99% of Japanese people would not argue for a second that it is not anime, so presumably what was meant was "Japanese-American cohorts" or "English-speaking Japanese cohorts residing in the United States" and they were going by the English definition of anime, but the wording she actually used makes it really problematic as it gives the impression that that distinction actually exists for Japanese people.

I guess it's not entirely irrelevant to vent to you about this, since it does harken back a little to that "... (OVA)" disambiguator shit from a few months back, where a relatively obscure term for a concept that doesn't actually exist in the real world was ... ah, forget it; I'm pretty sure that worked out in the end.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 23:31, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

I mean, some (but not all) of the characters' designs have a manga-influenced style, but extrapolating from that the show is "anime-style" is like ... I can't even think of an analogy. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 23:38, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

On a loosely related note, and by complete coincidence (I was actually looking for Japanese sources discussing the difference between the Gantz manga and TV anime), it just came to my attention that the Mainichi Shimbun does not write "OVA" without a parenthetical explanation of what is meant.[17] Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 00:03, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

The grammar's all fucked up, too—in the first sentence of the paragraph, anime is treated as countable ("an anime"—blecchhh!), and then in the quote that follows it's correctly uncountable. Come on, it's an anime article—you have to expect this shit. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 05:48, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Gotta disagree with you there. anime is countable in Japanese, insofar as Japanese nouns that don't refer to people can be countable, and refers to "an animated television series", "an animated film", etc., as underlined by terebi-anime. On top of that, if I recall correctly, you were the one playing devil's advocate in that OVA discussion a few months back that implicitly using the English word "animation" as a countable noun in English was acceptable, since we have things like "Flash animations".

Anyway, your last sentence is also off, since technically it's not an anime article; it's neither Japanese nor particularly "Japanese-looking" (unlike, say, Avatar: The Legend of Aang), and the sources that consider "anime" to refer to "Japanese and Japanese-looking animation" are apparently divided on it.

Still a pretty good show, though, even if it's been misleadingly advertised. I've been a fan of Red vs. Blue for years, but never got into its producers' other works until last week, but they're decent at worst from what I've seen so far.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 06:04, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

You've got that wrong—(a) number is not an aspect of Japanese nouns, so there is no "countable" and "uncountable" in Japanese; (b) "animated" is not a noun—the definite particle is describing "series" and "film", not the adjuncts that precede them (you say "I watched a film.", not "I watched an animated.") With regard to countable "animation", that was not devil's advocacy—that was describing how the language is evolving. At present, countable and uncountable "animation" have separate uses: uncountable as in "I like the artform of animation" and countable as in "The update for this game includes bugfixes and new textures and animations". "I like to watch animations" (in the sense of "animated films or videos") is not an established, accepted usage, but the language appears to be moving in that direction.

I don't care how "technically" off calling it an anime article may be—the article appeals to and is written by the same subculture, which leads to the same kind of confused writing. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 06:16, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

(a) You can say hitotsu no anime, can't you? Mainichi and a few blogs that Google classifies as "News" seem to think so.[18] futatsu no anime as well.[19] (b) I was giving those as examples of cases where the simple Japanese noun anime refers to concepts that, in English, we would describe as "an animated X", even if the Japanese just has anime and not, say, anime-eiga.

As for devil's advocacy: yeah, I know that's what you were saying, but in the context in which you said it it looked like you were justifying the use of "original video animations" based on the Japanese use of animēshon as referring to things that, in English, are countable, which would be unrelated to web animations as it appears to predate them.

FWIW, I was playing devil's advocate when pointing out to you that it's not technically an anime article. I don't doubt that it shares a lot of the fanbase and our article is written by the same people. (I should clarify, in case anyone else is reading this, that I like almost all of this stuff -- not "Japanese anime in general", but a lot of the more popular stuff, and also most of the Rooster Teeth content -- and for that matter almost all of the Marvel Cinematic Universe -- but I don't like calling myself a "fan" because a lot of the people who do self-identify thus ... are really bad at writing Wikipedia articles.)

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 06:36, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

And you can say ippiki no inu—it makes no difference, as there is no grammatical number in Japanese, and we're talking about the English language, where there is. Regardless, how they do things in other languages is irrelevant; English got the word information from (Norman) French, where the word is countable.

If countable anime has become standard in the English language, it has entirely escaped my notice. Certainly twenty years ago you wouldn't have gotten away with "I watched an anime last night"—you'd have to've said "I watched some anime last night". The line in the RWBY article is worse because it's a series—calling it "an anime" wouldn't make sense even if countable anime were indeed standard.

If it looked like I were somehow justifying "original video animations", then I severely miscommunicated (or I'm not recalling some important context from the discussion). Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 07:02, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

English got the word information from (Norman) French, where the word is countable. It's kinda off-topic, but that's actually an interesting question. I would think that at the time the word was borrowed into English it was (exclusively) uncountable in Norman French. There doesn't seem to be any reason to assume it was always countable in French

Certainly twenty years ago you wouldn't have gotten away with "I watched an anime last night"—you'd have to've said "I watched some anime last night" As far as I can tell as long as the word anime has existed in Japanese it's been used in the senses of "an animated film" or "an animated television series", so using it in English to refer to "a Japanese animated film or television series" (= "an anime") would make sense. This is kind complicated by the fact that, at least according to this guy, "anime" in English is a kind of replacement word for "Japanimation", which, yeah, would sound weird even to me if used countably. The line in the RWBY article is worse because it's a series—calling it "an anime" wouldn't make sense even if countable anime were indeed standard Not really: like I said, it refers to "a Japanese animated series"; it could also refer to "an episode of a Japanese animated series", but that would, if anything, be the less common usage because one doesn't often talk about the genre, style or country of origin of individual entries in series. (I briefly considered writing a satyric comment on Talk:Red vs. Blue (season 14) asking if episodes 9, 10 and 11 were also "anime-style" as their animation style is identical to RWBY, but figured that would be a bit pointy and no one would notice anyway.)

Anyway, I didn't think you were seriously arguing in favour of "original video animations"; it just looked a bit too off-topic for even my tastes to be talking about use of "animation" as a countable noun in the sense of a web animation in the context of an RFC about use of "anime" and "OVA" as disambiguators. And I know I'm being a hypocrite because I'm the one who brought up the use of "OVA" inline as opposed to its use as a disambiguator. :P

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 08:35, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Freaky coincidence here. Rooster Teeth animation and confusion of countable and uncountable nouns. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 09:37, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

I posted three minutes too soon.[20] Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 09:40, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

"I would think that at the time the word was borrowed into English it was (exclusively) uncountable in Norman French"—according to this, the earliest attestations of the word are countable (and in the plural).

"like I said, it refers to 'a Japanese animated series'": like I said, if this is standard usage now, it's completely slipped my notice. When I first came to Japan, it meant "Japanese animation" and was used grammatically so. It's hard to prove, because any search for "an anime" will inevitably turn up reams of hits with it being used as an adjunct; it's more work than I'm willing to do to sift through it all. If you can find a book from the 20th century in which anime is used unambiguously as a countable noun I'd be shocked. Googling around, it looks common enough in sources from the last handful of years, but still sounds like broken English to my 20th-century ears.

"Japanimation" was what anime was called as far back as I can remember; the first time I heard anime from someone's lips (rather than in print) was in a presentation in art class circa 1994 (the guy pronounced it as if it were French: "ah-neem"; I had a good chuckle, although I don't know why I knew better—I didn't start learning Japanese until 1996). When I came to Japan in 1998, "Japanimation" (or "Japanese animation", or "Japanese cartoons") were still far, far more common than anime; the J-pop boom hadn't happened yet. Funny, so many foreigners in Japan today are manga otaku, but when I first came, virtually none of the foreigners I knew here could stand the stuff—they were either here for the easy money (much easier back then, even that long after the bubble burst) or the skirt-chasing. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 10:12, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

according to this, the earliest attestations of the word are countable (and in the plural). Good catch, and that's really interesting (although I just checked, and the free online edition of OED, though not my denshijisho copy, gives basically the same info[21]), but those are still pretty late attestations (200+ years after the Norman conquest of England), and don't really answer the question given that the uncountable sense does appear to exist in modern French (I must admit my French is super rusty, though) and cognates in other languages that also got the word from Latin also seem to be a bit schizophrenic on the matter (although my Danish, Swedish and Latin are not "rusty" so much as non-existent).

It's hard to prove, because any search for "an anime" will inevitably turn up reams of hits with it being used as an adjunct I've found you can counter this phenomenon by looking at the first hit, then adding -"[whatever that first hit was]" to the search. I don't actually doubt that you are right to believe "Japanese animation" is the original and more formal sense, and it doesn't make a difference to my Wikipedia editing, since I'm such a stickler for "either use plain English or use the Japanese words in the technically correct Japanese sense" that I die a little inside every time common Wikipedia practice forces me to use "samurai"; if I had my way Yakushiji Kin'yoshi would be either a warrior or a member of the bushi or buke class, so as long as I have a choice I don't use "anime" to begin with.

the first time I heard anime from someone's lips (rather than in print) was in a presentation in art class circa 1994 (the guy pronounced it as if it were French: "ah-neem"; I had a good chuckle, although I don't know why I knew better—I didn't start learning Japanese until 1996) True story: I first heard it (never saw it in print until much later) in either 1997 or 1998 from my Canadian cousin (born in Canada to an Irish mother -- my father's sister -- and Canadian father), who pronounced it /ˈænəmi/ with an /i/. This actually made some sense given the most common pronunciations of both karate and kamikaze in English, and how Pokemon was pronounced a lot. I suspect that's why the latter developed an accent aigu in its official spelling, and why one sometimes sees anime written with one as well. I pronounced it /ˈænəmi/ for quite some time as a result.

Funny, so many foreigners in Japan today are manga otaku, but when I first came, virtually none of the foreigners I knew here could stand the stuff—they were either here for the easy money (much easier back then, even that long after the bubble burst) or the skirt-chasing. I actually don't seem to encounter that many people I would describe as specifically manga otaku, or at least they don't try to talk to me about it. Granted, most of the foreigners I talk to are ALT colleagues, and back when I was on JET that could be explained with the "easy money" thing, and even now that the only JETs I talk to are people who arrived when I was in my last year and got lucky with a fifth year on their contract, most of the non-JET teachers I talk to, while they don't necessarily talk about anime and manga a whole lot, definitely are into the whole "nerd culture" at least as much as I am.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:18, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Normally I'd use that Google trick, but there's really no limit to the "an anime [noun]" examples you'd have to take into consideration: "an anime film", "an anime series", "an anime creator", "an anime nerd", "an anime convention", "an anime trope", "an anime style", "an anime fan", "an anime dork", "an anime encyclopedia", "an anime article" ...

I'm not surprised about /ˈænəmi/, but this is honestly the first time I've ever heard of it.

I'm pretty sure there's no rule preventing you from calling Yakushiji Kin'yoshi bushi or buke—both terms are bolded in the lead to the Samurai article, after all. If it were me, though, I'd do something like "born into the [[Samurai|ruling warrior class]]", although I might even drop the "warrior" bit for some of them, like during the Edo period, when they didn't do much warrior-ing—think Harunobu or Hiroshige. Their articles describe them as coming "from a samurai family" or "a samurai background", though, but even that maybe puts a somewhat distorted idea into casual readers' heads. Not enough that I'd make a fuss about it, though. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 01:45, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Other irrelevant venting

Does this remind you of anyone? 1,400 edits, and 300 of them to GANs and FACs, and an argumentative style that consensus is needed not to violate policy. Not implying sockpuppetry, just that we might have a similar problem on our hands. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 00:29, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Mokusatsu

More belligerent horseshit. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 06:46, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

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Editing my userspace drafts

Hey, as usual I appreciate your help on User:Hijiri88/Medieval Japanese literature, but I'm a bit concerned that since both of us have very incrementalist editing styles and tend to make large numbers of edits in short time frames, and this is amplified for me when the pages are still in my userspace, there might be edit conflicts, which are annoying, and these could be avoided if you waited until I moved them into the mainspace. (This, plus the fact that fixing little errors like last→lasted is a great way to up my beloved mainspace edit rate, and your "stealing" them from me before I've even moved the page into the mainspace is kinda mottainai from my point of view. :P ) Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 02:20, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't look at the timestamps—I didn't realize you were right in the middle of editing it. I just couldn't leave it saying that Yoritomo was appointed shōgun a century after his death. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 02:27, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, I know. Sorry about that misprint. Then again, the fact that it was so outrageous made it an obvious misprint (like this one I found in a professionally edited digital edition of a widely-used print encyclopedia), while our live article on the Kamakura period Kamakura shogunate makes the claim that he was appointed shogun on July 12, 1185, a claim that's not so easily falsifiable. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 02:39, 6 July 2018 (UTC) )edited 06:24, 6 July 2018 (UTC))

Where does it say that? All I see is a year, and I don't see it being edited out in the page history. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 06:14, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

In the infobox. Minamoto no Yoritomo appointed shogun supposedly happened on that date, which I guess might be a misinterpretation of something else (he was obviously a 将軍 a lot longer than he was the 征夷大将軍, but the English word only refers to the latter), but none of the Yoritomo entries on Kotobank seem to imply anything of biographical significance other than the victory at Dan-no-Ura happened that year. The closest that comes up is that someone else (on closer inspection it seems to have been Minamoto no Yoshinaka) was appointed shogun in 1184. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 06:22, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Oh, son of a ... another misprint. Sorry again. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 06:24, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Use of Template:Illm when a placeholder redirect currently exists?

Hey, I know I asked you just above not to edit my userspace drafts, but there's something I want your advice on (as the one who introduced me to the template in the first place): what do you think about this? Daikakuji-tō and Jimyōin-tō both currently exist as redirects to the articles on their own direct successors, but this strikes me as being equivalent to redirecting Whig Party (United States) to Republican Party (United States) and Democratic-Republican Party to Democratic Party (United States), with the distinction that it's actually worse, since at least all four of those are political parties rather than rival states (Whig Party (United States)→United States of America and Democratic Party (United States)→Confederate States of America).

So naturally in the long run separate pages will need to be built. But is Illm only for redlinks? I recall a bot fixing one at some point when I eventually created a full article to be linked, but I'm not sure how it deals with pages that are currently redirects, and I suspect that if it doesn't recognize them maybe it should be made to because of placeholder redirects like these ones.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 08:52, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

When a link turns to a proper bluelink (an actual article and not a redirect), the interlanguage link disappears: notice how {{ill|Japan|ja|日本}} produces Japan while {{illm|Daikakuji-tō|ja|大覚寺統}} produces Daikakuji-tō. As to the appropriateness of the redirect—that's something only a human could deal with. Would you happen to know one? Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 00:24, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

Can you weigh in on this?

Hey, I just started a new section on this talk page to make the album ratings template reflect the critic consensus instead of defualt-ly including sources like AllMusic, even if their rating is not reflective of it. I know you seemed to agree with this when I brought it up before, would you like to weigh in? --Bobtinin (talk) 01:23, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

I'm watchlisting it anyways and have alredy commented, but you probably don't want to be asking for people to come back you up per WP:CANVASS. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 02:36, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Gotcha, I just thought that you might wanted to because you voiced concern on the other thread. --Bobtinin (talk) 02:46, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Well, I have an opinion, but the problem with pop-culture articles is they're full of editors who don't understand or care about the sort of concerns you or I are raising. It's exhausting and exasperating to deal with this sort of thing, and inevitably the consensus will come out in favour of pop-album articles being half made up of quotations from AllMusic. It's depressing and makes for shitty, unbalanced articles, but you can't argue with mobs of people who are not even trying to understand the point. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 02:57, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Jack Kirby

Hi,

Sorry to trouble you. Was wondering if you could take a pass at Jack Kirby and see if you had any suggestions as I'm thinking of submitting it to WP:FA. Appreciate anything you can offer, no matter how small. Hiding T 16:43, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

Hiding: Hey, I'm actually out of the country for the next month, but if you're not in a rush, I could look it over when I get back. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 10:10, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Works for me! Thanks! Hiding T 12:36, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Template:Red

Hey, I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I think using Template:Tq would be better. With short quotes red looks quite like a red-link, and it looks kinda ... angry (at least to me), even though I'm pretty sure that's not your intent. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 06:18, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

I agree, but I've got intermittent internet at the moment (I'm overseas) and didn't have much time to think about formatting and spelling. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 13:24, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Fixing pings

Ceoil: When you add a ping to someone as you did here, the ping won't work unless the comment is re-signed (yes, I realize it was Victoriaearle's comment, so you couldn't really have done that, but just so you'd know). I've known for years the two of you have an intense dislike for me—there you are slandering me up and down that talk page despite my weeks of silence (as well as at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Ceoil)—but, seriously now, you seem to be suggesting that the Arbs are protecting me or something (of course, nobody's buying it, or rising to the ridiculous bait—the evidence is all public). I mean, Jesus fucking Christ already.

Get better soon, Victoriaearle—I wouldn't wish kidney stones on an enemy (and I don't consider you one, even if you obviously do me). Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:56, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Books & Bytes – Issue 29

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:02, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

How is this guy not blocked right now?

[22] [23]

I mean, unlike some other people he doesn't have an unnervingly clean block log, but it really should be a lot longer when this is the way he has been engaging with me since his very first reply to me (or maybe the second, which was worse) in our very first encounter, meaning he almost certainly reacts this way to everyone. Heck, his behaviour in this thread alone should have been enough for a block.

User:Swarm is kinda-sorta WP:INVOLVED at this point, given that he issued the warning that led to the recent incident, and I'm genuinely afraid of what will happen if I open an ANI thread less than six months after this mess (which led to the other user getting blocked and still not getting the message but I still didn't come off great).

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 09:33, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Even if he were blocked, seriously, it's like swatting flies. The problem is the derangement rampant in superhero fandom. Some areas of Wikipedia are just not worth it: Israel—Palestine, for instance. Go edit some Japanese poetry articles—they need more attention and are less prone to conflict, and you'd do better with more edits to article space. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 02:52, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Oh, I saw my first MCU film the other week: Infinity War. I suppose not the best one to start with—I couldn't keep the characters or storyline straight. Not that it was something I was expecting to enjoy in the first place, but I didn't want to be the dick to say, "No, superheroes suck—let's watch something else." Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 02:54, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, that one probably wouldn't have come across well even if you generally liked superhero movies but for whatever reason hadn't watched any MCU movies thus far. Honestly of the nineteen I've seen, the only three I'd recommend to non-superhero-fans would be Iron Man (the first one, which everyone seems to love), Captain America: The First Avenger (which is more of a war movie than a superhero movie, and unlike the superior Captain America sequels, both of which are more dark spy thrillers than superhero movies, doesn't require knowledge of the others -- although Infinity War is definitely the worst for that), and Guardians of the Galaxy (which is more like Star Wars than a normal superhero movie).

Anyway, I got turned off Japanese poetry articles for a bit after this mess. I can't finish that article without more work than would be worth it, and it's only one of like three unfinished drafts in my userspace from the last month or so.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 10:56, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Surely there's something less involved you could do? I mean, there's the whole history of Japanese poetry to pick from. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:12, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

CC talk: warning

The sniping seems to be continuing, from both sides. I have removed the irrelevant material from that talk page and my talk page . If more is added, I shall block. The best way of avoiding it is to to reply directly to the other party. DGG ( talk ) 14:24, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

Length of Little Nemo

First of all, excellent work bringing Little Nemo to featured status! It's really interesting reading. I've been working on expanding our article on John Bunny—one of McCay's unnamed artist friends from the film—and I ran into a small issue you might be able to help me with. The source I've been using to build the filmography section of Bunny's article doesn't list Little Nemo as one of his films, but it's such an interesting piece of work that I want to include it. I notice that the article on Little Nemo only lists its run time, not physical length (1 reel, 2 reels, 1,500 feet, etc.) My source, on the other hand, only provides the physical length of Bunny's films. Do you know whether any sources list the physical length of McCay's film? If so, I'd love to know so as to be consistent. This is such a minor issue that I don't know if it's worth bothering you over, but it would make me inordinately happy to get is sorted out. Lord Bolingbroke (talk) 21:00, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

• Lord Bolingbroke: I haven't come across a source that lists the footage for McCay's films. Canemaker's bio doesn't seem to mention footage at all. One source says there was 900 feet for The Sinking of the Lusitania, and I thought I'd come across a source for Gertie the Dinosaur somewhere that used the footage to determine how many frames were missing, but I don't recall coming across footage for the other films. The closest thing I could tell you is that the animated portion of Little Nemo is claimed to have been 4000 frames at 16FPS. It's been a few years since I worked on these articles, though—perhaps there's something I've forgotten. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 22:40, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

It's no big deal. Thanks for the info. Lord Bolingbroke (talk) 04:01, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

RfC: Proposal: make subjects actively in the news ineligible for GANs and FACs

Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#RfC: Proposal: make subjects actively in the news ineligible for GANs and FACs. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 00:20, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

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Incorrect grammar created by your edit

Hi,

Your edit at 03:58, on 27 September 2018‎ of Faith Goldy created a grammar error that you or another 30/500 will need to fix. Specifically, "walking" needs to be changed to "walked". See below:

"Goldy briefly walking onto the stage during the debate and complained about the organizers before police escorted her away"

Thank you

• Fixed. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 03:01, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

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Edit summaries

Hi. Would you mind using edit summaries moving forward? You made multiple edits at Miguel Ángel Félix Gallardo, Enedina Arellano Félix‎, Benjamín Arellano Félix, Francisco Javier Arellano Félix‎, and Ramón Arellano Félix‎, without describing your changes. Thank you. MX (✉ • ✎) 13:11, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, I know. I rarely do, and after all these years I'm unlikely to start doing it regularly. Sorry! Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:07, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

Nomination of CryptoKitties for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article CryptoKitties is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/CryptoKitties until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 21:29, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi

Did a complete re-write of the article about Leif Axmyr. Take a look when time permits. Thanks.--BabbaQ (talk) 00:12, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request for Abraham Lincoln

In the "assassination" section on the Abraham Lincoln page, can you change the words “According to eyewitnesses, he face was fixed in a smile when he expired” to “According to some accounts, at his last drawn breath, on the morning after the assassination, he smiled broadly and then expired”? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.98.41 (talk) 09:47, 19 October 2018 (UTC)

You should ask at Talk:Abraham Lincoln—I don't have access to the sources used. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 00:00, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

The next time...

...you cast aspersions my way, implying that I am hounding you in some fashion, [24] I will take you directly to ANI. This is your only warning that I will not tolerate your impugning my reputation as an editor. I hope that's clear. Beyond My Ken (talk) 14:34, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

• You're threatening me? Jesus fucking Christ—talk about "protesting to much". Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 02:07, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

Books & Bytes, Issue 30

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 30, August – Septmeber 2018

• Library Card translation
• Spotlight: 1Lib1Ref spreads to the Southern Hemisphere and beyond
• Wikimedia and Libraries User Group update
• Global branches update
• Bytes in brief

French version of Books & Bytes is now available in meta!
Read the full newsletter

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 03:43, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Precious

Six years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:53, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

Move review for Nanjing Massacre

An editor has asked for a Move review of Nanjing Massacre. Because you were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the move review. STSC (talk) 19:12, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Question regarding MOS:JPPLACE

Hi,

Recently I began moving pages of Japanese place names (for example: Totsukawa, Nara) in accordance to what I interpreted this sentence in MOS:JPPLACE

"For cities, use the form [[{city-name}, {prefecture-name}]]; for example, Mishima, Shizuoka. Exception: For designated cities, use [[{city-name}]] without appending the prefecture unless disambiguation from another city or prefecture is necessary.

For districts, use the form [[{district-name} District, {prefecture-name}]]; for example, Aki District, Kōchi.

For towns and villages, use the form [[{town or village-name}, {prefecture-name}]]; for example, Fujikawa, Yamanashi."

Additionally, most Japanese place articles also follow this naming convention.

I saw that you reverted a lot of my page moves, saying that I "totally misunderstood MOS:JPPLACE". I feel like my interpretation is correct, as most of my moves were of towns and villages that are not designated cities. How should these articles be titled, in your opinion?

BigBryan0 (talk) 06:56, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

BigBryan0: Something very fucked up has happened. There was an RfC a few years (Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Japan-related articles/Archive 27#RfC: Mandatory disambiguation for Japanese places?) back that threw out this enforced [City], [Prefecture] bullshit except where necessary—this happened throughout Wikipedia, such as with Canadian and Indian places. WP:USPLACE is the last remaining holdout I'm aware of. MOS:JPPLACE appears to have undergone a number of changes without consensus, and I have removed them. Please don't move any more city articles that do not require disambiguation, and please move back the ones you've done since I reverted you—these "disambiguations" are pointlessly disruptive and do not have consensus. Nobody benefits from having the only Higashimiyoshi article moved to Higashimiyoshi, Tokushima.

"Additionally, most Japanese place articles also follow this naming convention."—they absolutely do not—if they did you wouldn't have had the opportunity to move so many of them. There are many remaining since the consensus to drop this convention was arrived at, but most of them (that do not require disambiguation) have in fact been moved. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 08:53, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

BigBryan0: regardless of the mangled instructions, you neglected to read the leading "When disambiguation is required:" that immediately preceded the text you quoted. That bit has been there for over four years. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 09:17, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Curly Turkey: Understood. This is a mistake on my part for missing that part, and I'm sorry for not reading the guidelines carefully enough. I've went back and undid the rest of my page moves. Thanks! BigBryan0 (talk) 12:34, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks! Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 22:52, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

DYK

I will nominate Sharon Dyall for DYK inclusion later today. Take a look if you like.BabbaQ (talk) 09:15, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Ninja in popular culture

Your move was misguided, as the word "ninja" is already plural when needed (just like "samurai" and other such words), and anyway this is about a concept of the ninja. Please revert yourself asap. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 17:04, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

No—both ninja and ninjas are well-attested and correct English plurals of ninja, but the plural ninja is ambiguous as to number in certain contexts. In "the ninja heard footsteps", is ninja plural or singular? At an encyclopaedia, we strive to eliminate ambiguity.

Further: no, it's not about the "concept" of the ninja—that article is at Ninja. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 22:17, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

'You're absolutely wrong, saying "ninjas" is as wrong as saying "samurais", "sais", "animes", etc. It's a Japanese word. See the ninja article (which is also "ninja" and not "ninjas") and count how many times "ninjas" passed through the editors (without my input) as opposed to "ninja" - I'll tell you, it's exactly 3 vs 161 (while in samurai "samurais" appears 1 time compared to 267 instances of "samurai"). There's 0 "animes" on Wikipedia, 0 "mangas" (only 1 in a French source link), 0 "sais", 0 "shurikens", 4 "katanas" (out of 57), 0 "ronins", and so forth, because it's Japanese words that are already plural whenever needed. Now go and revert yourself. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 08:36, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

SNAAAAKE!!: You're not even making the slightest effort to check your claims before posting this stuff, are you? The Ninja article itself notes that both ninja and ninjas are correct English plurals for ninja (and is well attested). I've given you a rationale for the most—digest it and consider what problems you'd cause by insisting on only the more problematic of the two well-attested plurals (which would be against Wikipedia guidelines regardless).

Further, Wikipedia articles (with special exceptions) are in the singular: thus Knight, King, Elephant, etc etc etc. The "Ninja" in the Ninja article's title is in the singular. You did know that, I'm sure.

The fact that plural ninja is used in such-and-such articles is evidence of nothing at all—it's correct English, as I've already stated. Again, I've given a rationale for the move: "At an encyclopaedia, we strive to eliminate ambiguity." The move I made causes no problem of any kind, while removing potential ambiguity. Refute that, if you can.

Oh, and I hope you're not seriously considering lecturing me on "Japanese words"—I've been studying Japanese since 1996 and have lived in Japan since 1998. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 08:56, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

Cool for you, I don't care. There's also 0 "mangas" (only 1 in a French source link), 0 "wakizashis", 0 "tachis", 0 "soheis", 0 "yamabushis", 0 "kunais", and so forth (and 0 "otakus" for that matter), which I guess you will now run to "correct" too? As I said, just revert yourself - to what is the norm on the Wikipedia. Bye! SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 09:03, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

"Cool for you"?! Go soak your head. You've already demonstrated you know fuck all about "what is the norm on the [sic] Wikipedia"—you don't even read the fucking articles you cite, nor can you be bothered to offer a rebuttal to any point I've made. "I don't care" will look awesome to the responding admin when you decide the course of action you'll take is to editwar over it. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 10:45, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

Holy fucking Christ—the word ninjas appeared 23 times in the article you're complaining about before I ever made my first edit to it. Can you seriously be this fucking clueless? Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 10:57, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

Hi, just want to say I'm sorry

Hi, I know we've had some less than pleasant interactions in the past about comic books. I feel like I have been the bad element in those by being overly abrasive and uncivil. I'm very sorry about that, I realize that I have issues with my temper and that I am in need of bettering myself. I just want to apologize right now, so that I don't leave any stuff in the air if I will be unable to return for a long time. I'm sorry.★Trekker (talk) 05:10, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Well, this is a surprise. I'm not as friendly or polite as I could be; hopefully I'll do better in any future interactions we have. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 08:40, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

I'm just happy if you forgive me for the bad things I said. I don't think you should feel like you have anything to apologize for (at least to me) or that you should change much, but ofcourse trying harder is always a good thing. Thank you.★Trekker (talk) 10:50, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

I've already forgotten whatever it was; if it's forgiveness you want, you've got it. Sorry if I've been a dick. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 22:58, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Added optional heading to Template:Navbar-table

Saw you added a caption to Template:AMD Epyc and initially tried to align navbar and caption vertically (so the edit links are moved down a bit), but let it be because it increased the blank space above, and I couldn't work out how to fix it.

Today I saw some content got removed from a different table template, which I noticed was down to the table being transcluded in two different articles, one about AMD APUs in general, the other specifically about the Jaguar micro-architecture. So wanted to add some clarification, e.g. a caption, note or heading.

I remembered that you added a caption to the other table but ended up altering the navbar-table template to use a heading instead.

Currently added the heading text inside Template:AMD custom APU, which means all articles transcluding the table would have the same heading. An alternative would be to pass on a parameter instead, so each article using this particular table could have a different or no heading.

Basically just informing you that there is a second option now and you can choose between caption and heading. — Pizzahut2 (talk) 21:11, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Would you possibly like to contribute to Wikipedia:Peer review/Pod (The Breeders album)/archive1?

Hi Curly Turkey, how are you? This is a little out of the blue, but I noticed you made a couple of edits recently to Pod (The Breeders album) and I was wondering if you'd be at all interested in contributing to the peer review of the article? If you don't have time or interest, no worries at all. Thanks for considering! Moisejp (talk) 07:09, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

ArbCom 2018 election voter message

Hello, Curly Turkey. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

ArbCom 2018 election voter message

Hello, Curly Turkey. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Trolls

Thanks for looking out-he's a dickhead.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 09:05, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

It's surprising how often he gets away with it, considering how many keep pointing it out. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 09:13, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

Can you offer your opinion in this discussion?

Hi. In the past you've offered your opinion in choosing photos for the Infobox. Can you offer your opinion in this discussion on a related topic? It may go toward a precedent regarding captions. Thanks, and Happy Holidays. Nightscream (talk) 19:55, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

So now you are going to engage in WP:Hounding?

It's no coincidence that after this, you've shown up at the Supercouple and Vagina articles. What article is next? How many articles will be out of your area of expertise? I'll enjoy taking you to WP:ANI, considering that every editor who has stalked/hounded me has been reprimanded and/or sanctioned in one way or another. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 07:46, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Reported at WP:ANI. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 07:57, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

You're right, it's no coincidence—I clicked through your user profile to your edit count and clicked through a few of the pages you'd most edited, as I do with pretty much everyone I interact with. How is this supposed to incriminate me of something? Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 09:59, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

I can't believe I didn't notice this hilarious message until just now. "Hahahahahahaha! You will suffer! Everyone who hounds me gets blocked, you know!! You have made a powerful enemy today, Curly One!!"; the funny thing is, unlike Flyer, I don't have to go back to 2015 to find a concrete example of me accusing another editor of hounding me and having universal agreement on that point, and can point to concrete cases where there was unanimous agreement that "Umm ... no ... that's really not hounding" Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 14:50, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

• Hey Curly Turkey. Flyer22 has been subject to hounding by people ranging from pedophiles to mens rights activists to just plain creeps. Perhaps you were unaware of that, but now you are. The close of the ANI was a clear warning to you, and you would be wise to mind it. User:Hijiri88 you are barking up the wrong tree. Jytdog (talk) 19:14, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

  Floquenbeam: Jytdog calls your closing note a "warning"—is it so?

  I'm worried because—as I stated at both the MOS and ANI discussions—I don't believe Flyer22 is engaging in good faith. I'm not going to click through her edit history for articles to edit (I stopped as soon as she started the ANI report), but she does have a 300,000-edit edit history that would be far too easy to cross paths with, and it's obvious to me she's holding a grudge over the MOS dispute and is looking for a fight. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 00:00, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

@Jytdog: Yes, that may be so, and if I had been aware of those I would have almost certainly been on her side in those cases; but she also fought to keep the wording of WP:V permissive as all hell of OR and unverifiable content (not just in subjects of "mainstream interest" like pedophilia, for which sources like the NSPCC are readily available, but also subjects like Japanese poetry where convincing the community that a civil POV-pusher is full of shit is damn-near impossible), she accused me of "hounding" another editor when said editor had harassed me, I noticed a problem with their content edits, and decided to check their other edits for similar problems, and she did ... whatever the hell she was trying to do on Talk:Star Wars: The Last Jedi (I still haven't figured it out, but she definitely took the side of User:Huggums537, who was hounding me in that case, so it's definitely not like she's always right when it comes to hounding, not by a longshot). In this case, she accused CT of "hounding" even though he clearly had a good-faith reason. (And yeah, I don't doubt she would have also agreed with the assertions that I hounded Catflap08 and CurtisNaito, had ArbCom not already cleared me of those before I ever interacted with her.) Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 00:11, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

I don't think she believed it was "hounding"—I think she was looking for a fight, and that's the keyword she grasped at. In other words, she's "not even wrong"—she's acting in bad faith. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 00:18, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Entirely possible: again, the Pyxis issue was her just randomly jumping in on an admin talk page she had either never edited before or at least had not edited in the past 17 months, so "looking for fights" certainly does not appear to be outside her wheelhouse. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 00:23, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

BTW: she also took a dismissive attitude to the (unrelated) hounding I was definitely subject to in the past: when someone has been told off by their boss because someone on Wikipedia called their office to complain about them editing Wikipedia at work, and has had their parents' home address posted on the site, it's definitely inappropriate for them to be told that they are "talking out of their ass" and don't have a clue about what constitutes "hounding". I feel really uncomfortable with you defending her like this when her recent actions regarding the issue have been as atrocious as they are. CT: Yeah, you are permitted by policy to look at the contribs of another editor if you believe you have a legitimate reason, but Floq is also allowed use his judgement to block you if he believes you have gone too far, and honestly it's probably not worth it. If F22RB ever accuses you of "hounding" again, you can probably point to her own defense of unambiguous hounding of editors she happened not to like, and her dismissive attitude toward the idea that such editors had been subject to more hounding than she had, but it might be better just to steer clear of her; that's what I intend to do, even though I really wish she would apologize for her incredibly hurtful remarks last night, and Jytdog, with whom I've yet to disagree on anything, would not give the impression of defending her remarks without also advising her that she should be a bit more tactful going forward: she's not the only one who's experienced harassment. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 00:23, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Curly and Hijiri, I suggest you keep whatever disputes you have with Flyer local and don't seek to expand them. Curly the practice you said you regularly do is something a lot of people do; however actually editing those pages is just dumb and is going to make the person feel followed and if you do that regularly, it probably causes a lot of things to escalate unnecessarily. In any case, you have put yourself in some ugly company with regard to Flyer (that is saying nothing about your intention -- just what your actions did). That is just a fact now, unfortunately. It is one you should be mindful of. Jytdog (talk) 00:36, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Jytdog: there's nothing "dumb" about it—this is the first time someone has openly objected to me doing it in thousands of such edits over all the years I've been here, and I'm not going to be bullied into stopping because one vindictive soul has kicked up drahmah over it. I have every intention of avoiding Flyer22, but she's clearly looking for a fight and I doubt will try to avoid me. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 01:55, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

I should note that on the only occasion I had a actual, specific, content-based dispute with Flyer (when she was on the "We should include discussion of the fan controversy in the Last Jedi article immediately, even though the dust hasn't settled and it looks like the controversy is being drummed up by anti-women, anti-minority alt-right activists" side) it was she who was putting herself in some ugly company, regardless of her motivations. As I stated a few times during that dispute, I was actually sympathetic to the people attacking the film on some points, and could totally understand why a good-faith Wikipedian think it not counter to the purpose of Wikipedia to include such content as soon as some semi-reliable sources start saying something approximating it; I just think said good-faith Wikipedians were wrong on the policy, and am only bringing it up here because of the uncharacteristic "guilt-by-association" statement that since Flyer has been harassed by men's rights activists and lunatics -- she can join the club on both of those points, honestly -- that makes doing things she doesn't like worse than they actually are just by association.

BTW: CT, I would second Jytdog's advice to steer clear of her, anyway. I agree it does look like she is looking for a fight and will not try to ignore you. She actually monitored my contribs closely enough to know that I had opened a discussion of "sharing continuity" in MCU films and TV series, and accordingly pinged me into a largely unrelated discussion that looked superficially similar, and given her apparent dislike for me this action is extremely difficult to take in good faith. But that happened only once, and there was the one incident on Drmies's talk page, and the talk page of a recently-released Star Wars film which I have no doubt she posted on in good faith since everyone saw that film at roughly the same time. (Huggums did not join it in good faith but that's a completely unrelated matter.) And my first dispute with her was about 30 months ago. So at worst you're looking at someone coming after once a year. There are much bigger things to worry about on Wikipedia.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 02:28, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

BTBTW: I had an edit conflict and haven't read Floq's comment below. I apologize if by the time I posted my comment was redundant. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 02:29, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

• (responding to ping above) I don't really consider it a "warning", because I am confident Curly Turkey is being honest, and won't look thru Flyer's contribs anymore. If CT occasionally edits a page that happens to be on Flyer's watchlist, I'm equally confident Flyer is not going to make a spurrious ANI report. If CT edits a bunch of pages on Flyer's watchlist, I imagine a new ANI report could result in some kind of i-ban. But we are not at that stage right now. CT did something, it bothered Flyer, CT now knows, and won't do it again. My confidence is sometimes misplaced, but I'm still operating under the assumption that it is justified. --Floquenbeam (talk) 02:20, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

yep, this is more or less what I meant. I shouldn't have said "warning" as that is too formal sounding. About the notes above, I have no more to say here. I would just be repeating myself. You all will do as you will do. Jytdog (talk) 03:09, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Thanks for the clarification, Floquenbeam. I'll make one exception to "avoiding Flyer22": I won't be staying away from any "singular they"-related discussions at TALK:MOS or elsewhere. I have a longtime interest in the topic (and prescriptionism in general) that long predates the advent of Wikipedia and I'm a frequent, long-term contributor to the Singular they page (and similar pages, such as the Inanimate whose article I created). Flyer22 will not bully me out of contributing to such discussions with bad-faith accusations. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 03:11, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

I've known and sometimes worked with Flyer for years and I've never seen her to lack a professional attitude or hold a grudge. Considering the difficultly of the articles that she works on, that's saying a lot. She is one of a handful of Wikipedia editors who make a real difference in the integrity of many of our articles, especially woman-related articles. I don't know you Curly but I can say that I would be furious if you would suddenly turn up at any articles that I work on. Curly, you say you do that all the time and no one complains but you can bet your bottom dollar that they are god damn pissed off if they are experienced editors and feel like they are being shamed if they are new. Most likely the reason they don't complain is that the complainer ends up sounding like they are being petty--it's very hard to stand up to an accomplished editor. And very few of us have the ability to argue their point the way that Flyer can do it. I don't, that's for sure. I'll take you at your word that you see no harm in doing it but I can say for a fact that it is mean and harmful to contributing to the pleasure and joy of our work here. Gandydancer (talk) 14:52, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

@Gandydancer: Are you just trying to pick a fight here? This incident was resolved several hours before you suddenly showed up and posted the above. Saying I don't know you Curly but I can say that I would be furious if you would suddenly turn up at any articles that I work on. Curly, you say you do that all the time and no one complains but you can bet your bottom dollar that they are god damn pissed off if they are experienced editors and feel like they are being shamed if they are new. is ... well, becoming "furious" or getting "god damn pissed off" over such a minor affair is not the mark of an experienced editor who is fitted to working in a collaborative environment. No one "owns" any of our articles, and if someone shows up to make MOS fixes to an article you are working you should be thankful for their assistance. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 15:10, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

BTW: If you read further up this page (Ctrl+F "incrementalist") you will see me politely asking CT not to do something that involved him checking my contribs, and he complied with my request because I asked nicely. Showing up here and saying "So you're hounding me then" and then immediately running off to ANI was not the right move on Flyer's part, and your implying you would do the same (and insisting that any experienced editor would feel the same) is simply ridiculous. 99% of established Wikipedians would respond like I did: politely ask CT not to do X, and if your request is reasonable he won't. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 23:23, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Gandydancer: the Flyer22 I've experienced is deceitful and vindictive, so you'll forgive me if I take your assessment with a grain of salt. And, yeah, I can only interpet getting pissed off at having a few commas corrected on an article you WP:OWN as petty—don't you want "your" articles improved? Afraid you'll catch my cooties if I do? Just listen to yourself.

I won't be clicking through any of your top-edited articles as a courtesy, but this is one sick slippery slope here at "the encyclopedia anyone can edit" (except Curly Turkey, 'cause he's like gross and shit). Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:16, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

I have to keep a record of this: Flyer22 claiming the ANI discussion closed finding me "being problematic" and that I "can expect a block". Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 01:03, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

On a loosely related note...

CT, I was, a few months back, accused of hounding for the act of using the AFD stats tool and requesting that editors not try to evade the scrutiny afforded by said tool, and you can Ctrl+F this guy's contribs for "hound" for a few more bizarre hounding accusations, so I honestly find the idea that this has never happened to you before a bit incredible. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 07:38, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

So an all-purpose hammer against one's opponents? Funny I've never been accused of it before—it looks like a handy little weapon. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 07:58, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

I'm considering penning an essay about how you can't claim someone was hounding you without a pattern of evidence spreading out over more than a few hours. Or requesting the policy page be amended: I've got virtually all candidates in the current ArbCom elections to agree that "It's only hounding if the intention is to harass, and it's not hounding if there might be a legit reason" is a better definition than the weak-ass accommodation bullshit that makes up the current policy wording, which benefits bonafide hounds and people who throw out groundless hounding accusations willy-nilly, at the expense of victims of both bonafide hounding and bogus hounding accusations. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 08:35, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Is it that widespread a problem? Like I said, it's the first time ayone's ever accused me of it, and the claim was unanimously rejected. My only other experience with "hounding" was a certain actual hound of yours who in the end got himself spanked for it.Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 08:41, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

We really should fix the problem completely...

Remember Talk:Nagano (city) this summer? Well, it's recently come to my attention that Kochi Prefecture has some of the worst examples (multiple separate municipalities named "Tosa", etc.). Shimanto, Kōchi is a disambig page, but Shimanto redirects to Shimanto, Kōchi (city)! (I'm not actually sure if it's the primary topic, since both it and the neighbouring town are very small, but either way Shimanto, Kōchi (town) should almost certainly be at Shimanto (town in Kōchi), no?) Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 06:59, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Is it just me, or does Shimanto, Kōchi (city) look like the name of a place in the city of Kōchi that needs to be distinguished from Shimanto, Kōchi (prefecture) which would be a separate municipality in Kōchi Prefecture? Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 07:02, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

We need some sort of solution, obviously, but I'm not thrilled with the solution we have (parentheses where city and pref are the same, but <City>, <Pref> otherwise). I didn't get the feeling there was much support for changing the status quo, though, nor did many people seem to give a shit about consistency, or any other sort of principal. "Just, like ... whatever man ... who cares?" I hope we don't end up with some horseshit like Plattsburgh (city), New York and Plattsburgh (town), New York ... Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 07:15, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

You should keep in mind that, while "city" and "town" are loose translations of 市 and 町, neaither are as meaningful in English as their Japanese equivalents. A 町 is officially a 町, but a "town" is pretty vague, and not necessarily helpful as a disambiguation (meaning, if you see Shimanto (town), you could just mentally parse that as "Shimanto (municipality)" and think you're getting what you want, when you really want the 市). Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 07:20, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Well, yeah, but how many people who are looking at the articles, even on English Wikipedia, aren't at least peripherally aware that they are looking at placeholder translations? If we worry about things like that, we're gonna wind up with Shimanto (smaller municipality) or Shimanto (northern municipality) for the 町.

Anyway, I don't think that's what the solution was at Nagano, and I definitely don't think it was parentheses where city and pref are the same, but <City>, <Pref> otherwise. I'd be in favour of applying parentheses across the board, and definitely never, ever using both comma and parentheses.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 12:26, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

"how many people who are looking at the articles ..."—quite a few. If I read about an incident in the news that happened in "the small municipality of Shimanto", I'm very likely to give the article a peak. Not that I have any solution to that.

What do you think the consensus was at the Nagano discussion? Because now we have Shizuoka (city), but Mishima, Shizuoka, and I don't see any consensus to change that. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:57, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Nanjing revert

I'm curious why you reverted my change of the Nanjing page. If you've lived in Japan, you certainly must understand there are differing accounts of what happened and so the word "differing" is more appropriate than the loaded, biased term "revisionist". For instance, it could be said that the International Settlement was basically the heart of Europe's corruption of China, and that Europe's money had been corrupting China for a hundred years. Regardless of separate issues of Japanese Imperialism in Manchuria, 南京 was most likely severely corrupt from the influence of the International Settlement. China could be said to have been the occupied territory of Europe. And then this "Amongst all this, Shanghai was notable for a long period as the only place in the world that unconditionally offered refuge for Jews escaping from the Nazis." The only place in the world...

Can we be absolutely sure of who is "revising" history here? We have a pretty good idea of ballpark facts for things hundreds or even thousands of years earlier, how many soldiers died in the Napoleonic wars, that Napoleon was exiled twice, etc., for instance, but for some reason World War II is shrouded in confusion. "revisionist" is a biased term used by one side to discredit the other. Wikipedia cannot be a source of knowledge if it takes sides.

So please clarify your comment of "definitely not in this case"? Peterius (talk) 20:47, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

I'd suggest taking it to the talk page there. I doubt you'll get much sympathy for calling revisionism a simple differing of opinions, especially when your rationale is "it could be said that the International Settlement was basically the heart of Europe's corruption of China".

Have fun with that—and please don't poison my talkpage with this again. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:52, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Reason for relocating discussion on MOS talk page

Greetings Curly Turkey,

I just wanted to explain why I moved the discussion on "Commas after short introductory phrases" above that of "Style discussions ongoing". If you read the "Style discussions ongoing" section, someone has added Add new items at top of list; move to Concluded when decided and summarize conclusion. Comment at them if interested. Please keep this section at the bottom of the page. As this is an ongoing discussion, I think the idea was to keep that at the bottom, but I'm not fussed either way. If we don't want to do that, we should probably eliminate that line so it doesn't keep getting moved. Cheers! CThomas³ (talk) 03:12, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

Oh, okay, I missed that. Sorry! Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 04:59, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

No apology necessary! I was explaining why I had originally moved it, and if you told me I had moved it in error I would have believed you and apologized myself. :) CThomas³ (talk) 05:45, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

Books & Bytes, Issue 31

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 31, October – Novemeber 2018

• OAWiki
• Wikimedia and Libraries User Group update
• Global branches update
• Bytes in brief

French version of Books & Bytes is now available on meta!
Read the full newsletter

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:34, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Trump and birtherism

Hey, I recall one e-mail exchange we had a while back about you-know-who, in which I linked you to a video of Orly Taitz being interviewed by ... Chris Matthews, I think, and the host eventually cut her off and compared her to Trump, and you expressed surprise that such an old video (it was from 2010 or 2011) would be talking about Trump. I wouldn't blame a Canadian in Japan for not being completely up on the 2012 US Republican primaries (I only knew about them because I was watching The Young Turks religiously at the time), but he was at the time considered to be one of the leaders of the so-called "birther" movement.

The reason I'm bringing this up here is because it's fun to refer on-wiki to off-wiki discussions about "you-know-who" and let others wonder who that is (even though if they were as familiar with our history as they sometimes claim it'd be really feckin' obvious); the reason I'm bringing it up now is because I recently watched the excellent Netflix documentary Trump: An American Dream, which goes into some detail on the matter, and if you can watch it I really recommend it. I forget if you ever mentioned to me whether you had a Netflix subscription, and it really sucks that oftentimes stuff made for Netflix never gets a DVD release because it's on Netflix, but ... yeah. Maybe if the current streaming wars don't go their way (they seem to be having a terrible break-up with Disney over the same) they'll start making and selling more DVDs for the increasingly large number of screen junkies who subscribe to one of their rivals instead.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 02:02, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

• I do have Netflix. Perhaps I'll give it a watch over the holidays next week, assuming I can get the time in—we're on the max-two-devices-at-once plan, which prevented me from watching The Ballad of Buster Scruggs until last night. I coulda sworn more than two of us used to be able to watch at once—did they change that when they jacked up the monthly fee recently? Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 03:25, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Oh, if that's the case I'd wait until your family is less likely to be using it. The whole thing is like four hours long. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 03:50, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

BTW, were you trying to download it? I haven't run into a problem with not being able to see Netflix on multiple devices yet, but I have been told that (apparently since my brother or sister back in Ireland had downloaded stuff) I was not allowed download. I'm a little afraid, with how things have been recently, that my father might decide to drop Netflix entirely and switch to another service that doesn't turn a blind eye to a single account being used simultaneously on multiple continents. Last time I spoke to my father about Netflix I had just left a 古本屋 after pondering whether to buy a cheap DVD box-set of the Godfather trilogy and deciding against because "it might be on Netflix", and he said that he wouldn't bet on it given how more and more Netflix content appears to be "original" stuff of ... well, he said dubious quality, I say varying levels of quality but held to a higher, somewhat unfair standard. It turns out that The Godfather (at least the first one) is at least on Japanese Netflix, so I might bring that up during my Christmas Skype call to try to subtly plant in my father's mind the idea that Netflix hasn't gone all that bad yet. Personally I find the whole downloading limits thing to be one of the slimiest things Netflix has done, since they hardly disclose any of it directly, and individual customers have to basically "guess" how long they can keep this or that download and how many times they can download it; and they attribute these limits to copyright, while some of the stuff they own almost entirely (Luke Cage, Daredevil...) is not available to download at all, and the third-party copyright holders couldn't possibly be to blame for how misleading/secretive they are about the whole thing. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 04:01, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

I haven't used the download function, but my eldest uses it. She says once you download something, once you start watching it, you have to watch it all the way through—you can't pause it and come back to it later. Sounds a like big pain in the ol' o-ketsu to me. I don't really use Netflix all that much, regardless of traffic jams, just because there's not much video content I'm super interested in—the odd movie, and Better Call Saul. The kids are on it constantly, though, when they're not on YouTube.Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 04:09, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Sounds like you wanted her to turn it off for whatever reason and she came up with a weak-sauce excuse not to, because that's definitely wrong. ;-) Starting to watch it often "accelerates" the expiration date (from, say, two weeks total to two days after you start watching) but on all three devices I've tried it on (all iOS, admittedly...) it has not prevented me from pausing or the like. That being said, neither I nor your daughter can objectively "prove" any of this to you because the official Netflix instructions are deliberately evasive about just about everything beyond "You can download now to watch on the go!" Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 04:34, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Well, she's got an iPhone, and she's the one who told me, not the other way around (I was surprised you could download at all). Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 07:11, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

It surprised me this summer to find out my J-Netflix account gave me access to Canadian Netflix when we were out there—no VPN tricks or anything. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 04:11, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

When I was in France this summer, I was briefly able to watch MST3K, which is not available in Japan for obvious reasons; the really weird part is that I was able to download the episodes within the Netflix app on my iPad, and they stayed there even after I got back to Japan; I had until the above-mentioned expiry dates to continue watching them at my leisure. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 04:34, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, that's what my daughter did with a bunch of Supernatural episodes—she was excited to find them, because they broadcast only a certain number of seasons in Japan. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 07:11, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Question on a Japanese article name

I'm asking you since you probably have more knowledge on Japanese WWII history than me. There is currently a dispute on whether this article should be named Nanshin-ron (original name) or Southern Expansion Doctrine (new name). The user is trying to move it without any move discussion or consensus. The current name is not used by any source and I don't think there is any English name for it. Fortunatestars (talk) 04:43, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

The opposite of that article is Hokushin-ron, which currently stands at that name. Fortunatestars (talk) 04:44, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

There are definitely over triple the hits for Nanshin-ron than for "Northern Expansion Doctrine", but I'm no expert on the subject. Why is there no discussion on either talk page? Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 07:02, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Oh, Jesus Fucking Christ—there's no discussion because it's Beyond My Ken editwarring again. Report him. He does this all the fucking time. You don't need to tell him "You need to start a move discussion and get consensus"—he knows, and has been blocked enough times for this shit. There's no talking with this guy. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 07:06, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. That also explains why he went to my talk page and not the Article's talkpage. It seems that his opposition is to it being a Japanese name, ignoring the fact that there is probably no actual English name, period. This started when I introduced the Nanshin-ron link to the Pearl Harbor article, and which is probably why the Hokushin-ron article is being completely ignored. Fortunatestars (talk) 09:50, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

I sympathize with the "keep it English" deal to a degree, but BYK makes it a religion. I hope you've reported him—this shit needs to be kept on the books. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 10:48, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

I will if he continues. I agree with keeping it English if there was actually an English that it can be kept at. Fortunatestars (talk) 11:50, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

If he reverts again, make sure you don't revert him again—they'll block you both instead of just him. Get an admin to revert him. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 12:32, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

Argento Surfer (talk) is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Don't eat yellow snow!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding {{subst:User:Flaming/MC2008}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

And a merry silver Christmas to you! Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 22:16, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Chōsokabe Chikatada

Nice! I don't know why I had gotten to wikipedia.jp and google.jp, but hadn't made the jump to using books and scholar in another language! Thanks! Aurornisxui (talk) 23:26, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

It's less helpful than you think—Japan seems to have something pathalogical against digitizing texts, so most of the good stuff isn't accessible. If you're interested in expanding the article yourself, experience tells me you'll have more luck (especially with this kind of thing) by hitting a brick-and-mortar library. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:32, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:Bongo Comics logo.jpeg

The file File:Bongo Comics logo.jpeg has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Unused logo with no article used, it's also can't move to commons because of an unused logo will be deleted as of out of project scope.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated files}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated files}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Willy1018 (talk) 04:39, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

Sullied

Hey ho! Hope all is well! I wonder what should be done about the recent addition of a new section added to the article Tintin in Tibet with one sentence stating that a particular song happens to have the same name? —Prhartcom♥ 19:24, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

There's a writeup at Pitchfork Media and it's mentioned in passing in Spin, so sourcing it is easy enough, but these "In media" sections are garbage magnets. WP articles are not supposed to be trivia dumps, so you could simply make an editorial decision to dump it (it doesn't appear to be a song about the book's contents), or you could work a brief mention into another section. Of course, the actual header has botched the article by making "Critical analysis" and "Awards" subsections of "In culture".

Just ditch it—I doubt the editor who added it would bother to re-add it.

Happy holidays, by the way! Haven't heard from you in a long time! Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 06:29, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

Indeed, happy Christmas to you and yours as well! I don't do much on Wikipedia lately due to long hours at work. Thanks for the advice. Agreed in every way, of course. Done. —Prhartcom♥ 15:26, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

I guess this is why...

...editors who primarily work on superhero film articles have such an inflated sense of their own being careful editors who read their sources critically and write grammatically flawless articles: this is the kind of "outsider" they are used to dealing with. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 10:02, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 04:56, 31 December 2018 (UTC)