User talk:Cullen328/Archive 5

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I mentioned you in a post

But would like to officially ask you if you are willing to adopt me here on wiki. No pressure. You were suggested by another editor and I really would love to advance my knowledge here. Again no worries and no pressure just thought I would ask you officially. TattØØdẄaitre§ lĖTŝ tÅLĶ 23:21, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Let me start by saying that I will do my best to answer your questions at any time, and look forward to having a friendly relationship with you, keeping improvement of the encyclopedia as the top priority. Right now, I have a formal mentorship arrangement with Miss Bono, and want to honor that as my top priority. So instead, let's consider our relationship as an informal helping and advisory relationship at this time. I am honored by your request.

Let me know, either here or by email, a bit about you, your goals, and your challenges as an editor. Post here or on a page of yours, or send an email. I will respect your privacy. I have plenty of information about me and my interests available on my user page. Take care. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 00:51, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you so much and I appreciate your wanting to keep Miss Bono a priority. I will send you an email when I get a few moments. TattØØdẄaitre§ lĖTŝ tÅLĶ 01:39, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Calling me WBCR

I like it when you call me WBCR for short for WisconsinBoyClevelandRocks228844. That's funny right there. WisconsinBoyClevelandRocks228844 (talk) 01:47, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

I am glad that you like it, WBCR. After all, it is common here for editors to shorten or abbreviate user names when we are interacting in a friendly way. And yours is pretty long. Lots of people call me "Cullen" though I am actually "Cullen328". There is another "Cullen" here, but last I looked, it was an inactive account. Take care. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 01:59, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

World Digital Library-Wikimedia Partnership Newsletter

Expand Wikipedia's free knowledge with WDL resources!

Hi Cullen328! Thanks for participating in the World Digital Library-Wikimedia Partnership. Your contributions are important to improving Wikipedia! I wanted to share a few updates with you:

• We have an easy way to now cite WDL resources. You can learn more about it on our news page, here.
• Our to-do list is being expanded and features newly digitized and created resources from libraries and archives around the world, including content from Sweden, Qatar, the Library of Congress, and more! You can discover new content for dissemination here.
• WDL project has new userbox for you to post on your userpage and celebrate your involvement. Soffredo created it, so please be sure to thank them on their talk page. You can find the userbox and add it to your page here.
• Our first batch of WDL barnstars have been awarded! Congratulations to our first recipients: ProtoplasmaKid, ChrisGualtieri, TenthEagle, Rhyswynne, Luwii, Sosthenes12, Djembayz, Parkwells, Carl Francis, Yunshui, MrX, Pharaoh of the Wizards, and the prolific Yster76!! Thank you for your contributions and keep up the great work. Be sure to share your article expansions and successes here.

Keep up the great work, and please contact me if you need anything! Thank you for all you do for free knowledge! EdwardsBot (talk) 16:36, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Cant for the life of me

I cant for the life of me figure out how to send you an email. TattØØdẄaitre§ lĖTŝ tÅLĶ 04:55, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

On the left hand side of my user page (and every use page) is a long column of links: "Main page", "Contents", "Featured content", and the like. Some are pull-down menus."Toolbox" is a pulldown menu. Any user who has email enabled as I do will have an "Email this user" choice showing. Click that. If this doesn't work for you, let me know. I will watch Wikipedia for a while. Good luck! Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 05:05, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

User:Tattoodwaitress, Special:EmailUser/Cullen328. it works only if you have email enabled. TheOriginalSoni (talk) 05:06, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Ah ok... Cullen and TheOriginalSoni yes I see only if enabled. Shall go and check now. THANKS!!TattØØdẄaitre§ lĖTŝ tÅLĶ 05:11, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

eMail

Hello, Cullen328. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

It took about 15 minutes, but I got it and responded. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:05, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Hey!

Good morning! You got messages a the msp. and i wish you a happy and warm July. Ms.Bono^(zootalk)☆ 12:50, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi - can you review?

Hi Jim, I hope you're well. I've worked previously with SmartSE (talk) on a new lead for Trilantic and the key investments section - please see the Talk section . He's been busy recently and recommended you as a person who could help me with this. Do you think you would have a minute to have a look at it? Many thanks, Kat Kt1502 (talk) 15:05, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Good morning Cullen

Wondering if you can help me with this image? I am working on disambig links, however, i ran across a red link to an image but can't figure out why its red? Is this something that could be fixed by changing the formatting of the text? I clicked the link and thought it might tell me it had been deleted due to copyright reason or something like that but no... anyway here is the name of the image File:My Mistakes Wiley.jpg and page I found it on My Mistakes. Thank you. TattØØdẄaitre§ lĖTŝ tÅLĶ 15:52, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't know the history. You could find the image online and upload it under a free use criteria. Do you know that procedure? The wizard will do most of the work. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 18:01, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Did you get my email?

I hope so :) I made some changes to my user page since you last saw it. I was wondering if you could give your opinion and suggestions. Thanks. Also, can you check out the sandbox of the new article?? Ms.Bono^(zootalk)☆ 18:04, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I got your emails. I did not attend the Live Aid concerts but saw some of the first one on TV. I am very busy today, my friend. I will have more time tomorrow, since it is our Fourth of July holiday. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 19:58, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Happy Independence Day in advance! :) I left a message for you in my talk... Ms.Bono^(zootalk)☆ 20:00, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Happy 4th Of July

Greetings from Cuba :) (couldn't find any template for this) Ms.Bono^(zootalk)☆ 12:26, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, Miss Bono. I slept in this morning, which is a treat. Today will be a lazy day. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 16:02, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

That's what I call a polar bear day. I like sleeping on weekends i usually wake up at 2pm on Saturday. I guess you will have time for WikiWork 2day! Say hi to your wife for me. Check The clarence sandbox :) Ms.Bono^(zootalk)☆ 16:28, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

User talk:Miss Bono/Clarence Hotel

I'm not sure we're allowed to have all that content sitting there. Isn't that a copyvio? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:29, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Anna. I am in the process of removing all these articles, leaving only the links. Another editor got extremely over-enthusiastic by posting all of these articles. I believe that briefly posting an article or two for Miss Bono's research purposes is acceptable fair use on a user page since she does not have access to Google or another general purpose search engine, and I have encouraged her to delete such articles as soon as she has read them. But someone else, overwhelmed her (and me) with a massive number of repetitive articles. They will be gone soon. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:37, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

No problem. I guess a little over-zealousness isn't so bad. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:53, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Two or three articles is manageable and in my opinion, defensible under the circumstances. Dozens, especially considering that so many are repetitive and of little use, is a bit overwhelming, and I am spending a lot of time pruning rather than creating content. So it goes. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:56, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Hey! It was Pjoef who posted all that info. He just wanted to help. Sorry the bothers :( Ms.Bono^(zootalk)☆ 12:10, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Cullen328. You have new messages at Anna Frodesiak's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Ms.Bono^(zootalk)☆ 12:22, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

See...

First of all, thank you for moving TCH into the main space. I didn't do so much for the article as I expected. sorry for that. can you find something on Bono: The Complete Solo Projects online??

How was your day yesterday? Ms.Bono^(zootalk)☆ 15:47, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

There is still work to be done. Do you have a reference for the Fred Lawless story, or the rooftop concert? Can you add the article to the U2 Wikiproject? We had a restful day at home, except for a drive to Napa for beers at a brew pub and a stroll along the Napa River. I am back at work today. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 15:56, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

I already added it to the WP:U2. also, in both articles; Beutiful Day and Fred Lawless there are references. Also I can add references for the rooftop concert from a TV Show episode I have (Callejeros viajeros) Where they show images and talk about the concert... They show a lot of things of the Clarence. Ms.Bono^(zootalk)☆ 17:01, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Clarence History Section

Theroadislong removed most of the content on the History. I will read Pjoef references, the ones that talk about the hotel in 1852 and see what I can get. Tell you on Monday :) Happy weekend Ms.Bono^(zootalk)☆ 20:33, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Sorry but it was incorrectly referenced and it was copied from another article.Theroadislong (talk) 20:57, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

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The recent AfC thread at Teahouse

So from what I read in that thread, somehow this was reviewed by two editors and still got approved? The insane are running the asylum! It appears that clearing the backlog was more important than doing the job, and people like me who look for new articles and fix, tag or file for deletion on them are going to be extra busy for a while. Gee thanks, AfC team. The situation at AfC is getting untenable. Do you have any thoughts on what to do? Gtwfan52 (talk) 05:44, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

What's wrong with you, Scrooge? Don't you think that pets should receive the same quality of rehabilitation services as professional athletes? Or that such institutions shouldn't be able to promote themselves on Wikipedia?

Joking aside, this is far from the worst I've seen that passed AFC. I've never worked in that department, so don't know the social norms. I have seen questions at the Teahouse from quite a few newbies who have had submissions rejected. I have no "magic bullet" ideas for solving the problems, other than trying to inculcate the traditional and positive Wikipedia values into enthusiastic newbies. When I started four years ago, people frequently mentioned the Five Pillars, which I studied and internalized. For some reason, they are rarely mentioned these days.

I am an old guy, and far less confident of my brilliance than I once was. I think a lot these days about what sort of factors nudge a very tiny percentage of new editors into becoming productive long-term contributors, while the vast majority of others drift away, or worse, grind axes, promote ventures, treat the project as a social network, or revel in hurling insults at the drama boards. I have no definitive answers but consider the matter worthy of study and discussion.

I thank you for your worthy question, though I don't have good answers. Consider the case of Anne Delong, who posted at the Teahouse. Though I don't know her well, she seems to be a very useful editor who came to the project, as I did, through a special interest path. She wanted to improve our coverage of bluegrass music, while I was motivated to write and improve biographies of California mountaineers. Neither of us stuck to a narrow niche or became SPAs. Both of us branched out and started working on more "administrative" areas. AFC for her, AfD for me. Why? Personality similarities of some sort? I don't know.

I do believe that the social norms of the Teahouse are the current manifestation of the idealistic spirit that has made this project the enormous success that it is. We always need to remember that we are the #6 or #5 website in the world, and #1 in terms of original content and working, effective credibility by billions. Despite our problems, we have much to be proud of. So, if I haven't answered your question directly, I hope what I have written sheds some light on my thinking. Thanks for asking. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:22, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Excuse me butting in. I don't think Saint Francis Veterinary Center would even survive an AfD.Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:38, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Well, I'm sorry now that I made my original post. It was not intended to disrupt the usual tranquility at the Teahouse, which is for helping new editors. I hope that if you have more comments about specific articles that you will post them on the article's talk page or on the Afc talk page if it's about a review. —Anne Delong (talk) 06:50, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Anne, I hope that I made my respect for you clear in my earlier remarks. You don't need to be sorry about the comment you made at the Teahouse, as every opportunity for respectful debate about improving the encyclopedia is a good one. Please don't feel bad. As for you, Kudpung, you are always welcome to post on my talk page. I don't know whether or not this particular article would survive AfD. Many editors may see it as an unambiguous promotional piece, while others might argue that the coverage in reliable sources inspired by the baseball player's involvement nudges it over the GNG. I tend to be a moderate on many such issues here on Wikipedia. That's how I roll. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 07:04, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Anne, that is why I brought this to his talk page. It doesn't belong at the Teahouse. But it is a problem. And some of the articles that are getting approved at AfC are a serious problem. A problem that we are going to be losing editors over. Keeping editors here is why I work at the Teahouse. Gtwfan52 (talk) 07:43, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

• Wowwie wowwie wow! This topic seems kind of hot, and I apologize to Jim for it polluting his talk page. Personally, I've not approved any submissions yet at AfC for the simple fact that it is a complete mess trying to pull them back out of article space if it turns out they don't pass muster. I've no problem declining them on the other hand because I've never seen anyone get upset about a declined article where someone else comes along and says, I don't see any reason (or that isn't a good reason) for this to be declined, I'm approving it and moving it to article. That is much less of a mess. Now... We seem to have a lot of good reviewers here, and some that don't know Adam from Eve. I encourage our good reviewers to help Theonesean complete the AFC academy so that we have something we can use to educate the less adept reviewers and help them make less mistakes. :) Technical 13 (talk) 14:32, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Please excuse me for sticking my nose into this discussion but now that this particular article has been nominated for deletion the fact that it passed AfC is being used, in part, as a reason for keeping it. Flat Out let's discuss it 00:14, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Technical 13, I don't object to this type of conversation on my talk page, and so far it seems respectful to me. As long as everyone interested assumes good faith of the other participants, and makes logical, thought out arguments, then let's discuss it. And Flat Out, you aren't sticking your nose in. You are always welcome here, as are the other editors. As to your point, I would hope that our improved AfC processes going forward would yield main space articles that will rarely end up at AfD. That being said, I do not accept the notion that an article that has made it through AfC is entitled to any special consideration at AfD. As an active AfD participant, I judge each article on its individual merits, and especially on my judgment of the notability of the topic. I pay very little attention to how the article originated, and I expect that closing administrators will not give much weight to "keep" arguments based on the argument that the article made it through AfC. Perhaps that notion should be added to Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions. I hope that you all have read that excellent essay. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 01:19, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Just wanted to get my two cents in. The much-heralded AfC Mentoring Program is well under development both on and off wiki. I will post on the AfC talk page if I need any assistance. My sincere thanks to all who have offered to help. I'm definitely needing the assistance of seasoned editors. I'm just hoping to do my part to eliminate the bad reviewer from the equation. Thanks, theonesean 03:16, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
	For helping me out with my confusion! Thanks :) Sembleton (talk) 08:13, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

TheOriginalSoni's departure

Hi there Cullen! You may already know that soni has left wikipedia for a long term break.. Well I was his adoptee and as of now I have nobody, if you don't mind continuing off my adoption course for soni or recommending another user that is available to adopt, please I would appreciate it! Thanks Jim. Prabash.Akmeemana 00:00, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Hello Prabash. I am saddened by TheOriginalSoni's decision to retire, but this is a volunteer project so I have to respect his choice. As for mentorship, you are probably aware that I have been mentoring Miss Bono for nearly 3-1/2 months now, and will continue with her as long as she feels she needs my help. My mentorship of her will be my first priority as long as she wants. We have worked very well together, in my opinion, and I hope she agrees. This mentorship has been informal, and we haven't gone through any formal coursework. She asks questions, and I try to help her.

I encourage you to create a user sub-page describing the current state of your mentorship. Tell me a little bit about you as an individual person, though you don't need to disclose anything personal that you don't want to. Tell me what problems led you to request mentorship, what progress you've made so far, and which issues still need work? Please tell me how far along you are in your mentorship coursework? What can I do to help you reach your goals? Once I have more information about your needs, I will let you know how I can help. Good luck to you. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 00:36, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Wow, Thank you so much! , If you want to know a bit about me, check my user-page! and about the sub-page I am on it... Though if you want to keep things informal, that is fine too, I prefer it, but do whatever suits you and is easier for you. Feel free to email me anytime. Prabash.Akmeemana 01:38, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Please answer my questions in detail, either in an email, or on a sub page. Your user page is interesting but does not answer all of my questions. Do you see anything in my answer above that indicates that I have agreed to mentor you? I don't. Or do you see that I have agreed only to discuss the issue, based on your responses to my questions? I am not saying yes, and I am not saying no. Thank you. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:37, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

IP block exempt

I have granted your account an exemption from IP blocking. This will allow you to edit through full blocks affecting your IP address when you are logged in.

Please read the page Wikipedia:IP block exemption carefully, especially the section on IP block exemption conditions.

Note in particular that you are not permitted to use this newly-granted right to edit Wikipedia via anonymous proxies, or disruptively. If you do, or there is a serious concern of abuse, then the right may be removed by any administrator.

Appropriate usage and compliance with the policy may be checked periodically, due to the nature of block exemption, and block exemption will be removed when no longer needed (for example, when the block it is related to expires).

I hope this will enhance your editing, and allow you to edit successfully and without disruption. WilliamH (talk) 08:21, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, WilliamH. I appreciate the trust you've extended to me. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 21:44, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Email

Jim, I have replied to your email! Prabash.Akmeemana 22:19, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 22:21, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Got your reply, I replied back :( Prabash.Akmeemana 11:07, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

The Pillsbury article

I am more convinced than I was, but I cannot shake a lingering sense of something not right about this. It's especially the "about" page on the foundation website that gives me bad feelings. I would really like to work with more plainly third-party sources, because the sense of "we are determined to make some money off this" I get makes me extremely wary. Maybe I'm just too paranoid, but I would like to see a provenance to the facts going back before the apparently rather recent promotional efforts. Mangoe (talk) 12:35, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

The Hall and Williams books from the 1920s are strong indicators though not independent. Google news archive search under "A.C. Pillsbury" yields lots of contemporary coverage. The 2006 museum exhibit, 60 years after his death should clinch the deal, and the biographical sketch published by U.C. Press confirms the basic facts of his life. As for moneymaking by the family, it doesn't seem like much of a commercial venture to me. A Cafe Press store? Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 15:23, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Start Snuggle

IRC office hours for wiki-mentors and Snuggle users

Hi. We're organizing an office hours session with the Teahouse to bring in mentors from across the wiki to try out Snuggle and discuss it's potential to support mentorship broadly. The Snuggle team would appreciate it if you would come and participate in the discussion. We'll be having it in #wikimedia-office ^connect on Wed. July 17th @ 1600 UTC. See the agenda for more info. --EpochFail^{(talk • work)}, Technical 13 (talk), TheOriginalSoni (talk) 17:22, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Deletion discussion

I wonder if you would consider contributing to the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Saint Francis Veterinary Center. The article's creator is commenting incessantly and diluting the discussion. Flat Out let's discuss it 07:41, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

I am aware of that debate and have decided not to take a side, one way or another. We have to count on the closing administrator to separate the wheat from the chaff. Thanks. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 15:00, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Fair enough. Speaking generally it seems to be taking longer for admin to respond to issues. I'm not sure if the work rate has increased or the availability of admin is an issue. Flat Out let's discuss it 15:05, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

There has, unfortunately, been some recent turmoil among the administrators, resulting in two highly productive admins resigning and a third going on Wiki break. And some controversies have been diverting the attentions of several others. This is based on my personal observations of this vast project. Things will work out as time goes by. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 15:12, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

I was wondering

Now that I know your on line I was wondering if you would look at an article that I have in progress (my first one from scratch) and tell me what you think? I would like some feedback. I had jackson look at it but it never hurts to get more than one opinion. I have made many changes to it since he looked at too. You can find it at Joe Patrick I thank you for your time in advance.TattØØdẄaitre§ lĖTŝ tÅLĶ 05:35, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

I responded on your talk page. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 20:35, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Congrats... You gave an awesome answer in the Teahouse!

	Great Answer Badge
	Awarded to those who have given a great answer on the Teahouse Question Forum. A good answer is one that fits in with the Teahouse expectations of proper conduct: polite, patient, simple, relies on explanations not links, and leaves a talkback notification. Earn more badges at: Teahouse Badges
For this great answer. :) LukeSurl t c 10:37, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Luke. I try. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:13, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

I have a question re: comments on "tiger"

I am still working on this list of comments re Tiger Patrick, but have already made many changes re: your feedback. I am curious about the "website" you asked about. You asked if he had one. I dont see one listed anywhere, however, there is a facebook page. does that count as to what you are talking about or no because that is social media? The facebook page is at [1] titled Honor walk across the country for the Faces Of Our Fallen which is "following" joe during this latest walk. Forgive my poor typing this morning. And where would you put something like this in the article. How would you word it? Thanks TattØØdẄaitre§ lĖTŝ tÅLĶ 18:16, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

If you are confident that this is an official Facebook page instead of something that Facebook's computers have cobbled together, then you can set up an "External links" section and include it there. It doesn't indicate notability, though. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 20:33, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

notice of email

Hello, Cullen328. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Please let me know if it doesn't arrive within a timely manner. Thank you... Fylbecatulous talk 14:28, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

I received your email and have responded. Take care. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 14:38, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. All the best to you as well. Fylbecatulous talk 14:50, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Adding to other links - follow up on my Teahouse Message.

Hi, Jim.

I'm a newby. Jelafi17

I created an article for someone who is an author and she asked if I could update her publisher's page and add her to their list of authors.

You invited me to chat with you about it.

In the mean time, I also got a reply from someone else saying my attempt to further edit the article was a conflict of interest and referred me to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:COI page. It says that all I can do is post a request for someone else to do these updates. Does this mean that I can't even add a picture to her article? Jeriann Jelafi17 (talk) 01:52, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi Jeriann, I recommend that you disclose the nature of your conflict on your user page and the article talk page. Are you being paid to edit? I do not believe that adding a freely licensed photo will cause you any problems, or adding a link in the manner I discussed. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 02:11, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Hello and re:The Platypus Deletion Discussion

Hello Jim, thanks for participating in the Platypus deletion discussion. Since you're more experienced at how this stuff works than I am -- I wanted to ask if you thought it would be appropriate or a waste of space for me to post the discussion from the Reliable Sources Noticeboard re the reliability of the WV and WW. I don't want to add space to an already lengthy discussion -- but I do want that discussion to be incorporated as it's relevant. Would appreciate your thoughts as well as any other advice you might have. Thanks. Eulerianpath (talk) 15:56, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

PS It seems the article was deleted. Is there anything else that can be done to revert this decision? Especially because of the speed with which it was made, the fact that my arguments were disregarded as SPA, the apparent disregard / nonmention of the COI-issue with the nominator, and the apparent disregard / nonmention of the 4 international sources of reliable coverage as per the reliable sources noticeboard discussion?Eulerianpath (talk) 16:42, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

I expressed disagreement on the closing administrator's talk page, right after your remarks. This was an unconventional action. The admin didn't agree to reverse the close of the debate, but offered to userfy the deleted article to my user space, which means that I can have the chance to whip it into shape in a leaner, better referenced form. I could take the matter to Deletion review, but I think the other approach is best. I don't have the appetite for a battle. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:05, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Alright Jim. Are you going to take a stab at rewriting this article? It alright if I take a stab with ya? by which I mean editing the copy on your user page. I think I'll start by paring down the Activities section. Your thoughts? Eulerianpath (talk) 23:46, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes, the draft article is at User:Cullen328/Platypus. I am busy the next few days and my computer is being repaired so I can't do much for a while. I recommend starting by the removing all dead links and then the less reliable sources. Remove any content that might be challenged and prune it to a shorter but well referenced article. When I have time, I will help. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 01:45, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

I was was wondering

Can you help me understand this NPOV thing a little better? The editor who approved the article about Joe Ptrick said there were "a few, not many" phrases that needed the NPOV but i don't know which ones. I am thinking maybe the sentence that states "laboring at ground zero" and maybe the very last instance of "honor". I don't know I made quite a few changes after you mentioned it but am drawing a blank here. Any help will be greatly appreciated. TattØØdẄaitre§ lĖTŝ tÅLĶ 22:59, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Reference 3 "Progressfire" may not be a reliable source with professional editorial control and a reputation for fact checking, and should not be used for the "honoring" language, in my opinion. I would try to find a better source and take a close look at the claims it backs up. Some of it comes close to "cheerleading" language. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:19, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes I agree after reading it again. I removed progress fire.When it comes to the references are you saying that they also have to be in a NPOV? And what is professional editorial control and fact checking? Meaning me or them? Do you see any more spots in the article that can be reworded to a NPOV? I really appreciate your help and hope that i am not being a pest. I understand the being neutral part, not taking a side, its like telling a story stating the facts with no emotion. But sometimes the words don't come to me that i can use instead. Its way different than creative writing (which I am really good at) right? I'm wondering if there is a list of words somewhere to avoid. Yea i saw it somewhere i think but that is my problem sometimes not being able to get back to where i saw things and don't know how to search for the help because every time i use the wiki search bar i come up empty, well not every time but close.TattØØdẄaitre§ lĖTŝ tÅLĶ 01:58, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

RfA?

Hey Jim. I had a conversation a while ago with Worm That Turned (talk · contribs) here about being an admin where he asked me to recommend anyone I thought would be a good candidate, and I feel pretty confident you fit the bill. I know you were asked about this last month, and I wanted to follow-up and see what your thoughts were about the matter. I, Jethrobot ^{drop me a line} (note: not a bot!) 01:44, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Also, I'd be happy to provide a co-nomination statement if and when you want to start an RfA, since I'm pretty familiar with your work. I, Jethrobot ^{drop me a line} (note: not a bot!) 01:48, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for asking, I Jethrobot. I feel honored that other experienced editors think of me as a possible candidate.This is something that I think about from time to time, and my response to Melanie N a while back remains the same. I need to be sure that I can integrate my work on Wikipedia with all of the other aspects of my life. I run a small family business with my wife and one of my sons. My other son is disabled and deserves my attention as well. There is a direct correlation between the attention I devote to my business and my family's prosperity. I dearly love Wikipedia and am fully committed to it as a volunteer activity, but I can't allow it to detract from my other obligations. Recently, my wife has been editing Wikipedia much more herself. So, maybe we can reach an agreement where I can ask for the mop, and if granted, do some administrative work along with the other work (useful I hope) that I already do for the project. For me, creating encyclopedia content always comes first. I tend to make such decisions slowly, so please be patient with me. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 05:34, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Got it. Well, consider it an open invitation whenever you feel ready. A slow decision in this case is surely the better one. I, Jethrobot ^{drop me a line} (note: not a bot!) 05:39, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

You deserve this for being so helpful

		The Good Friend Award
		Jim, you have been so helpful and courteous with my inexperience and multiple questions (that are layers deep) and I just wanted you to know that I appreciate your kind efforts!! TattØØdẄaitre§ lĖTŝ tÅLĶ 21:02, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, Tatoodwaitress. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 01:05, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you doesn't say enough

Fylbecatulous talk haz givn u Lolcat! Lolcatz promot teh WikiLovez and hoapfully thiz one tuk away ur sadz. Spredd teh WikiLovez by givin sumone else Lolcat, or if tey hav one, give a cheezburgr for teh Lolcat 2 snak on!

Gratitude I give in the way of purrs. I consider you a friend and will never hiss again ツ

Spredd teh goudnez of Lolcats to all cheezburgr buddiez by addin {{subst:Lolcat}} to their talk paj wit frendli messuj to all!

Thank you, Fylbecatulous. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 01:03, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Victim identification

But what if the name of the victim has not been proven. Earlier it was reported by some sources that the father granted her permission and revealed her name as <redacted>. But later some sources reported that he never granted permission nor revealed her name which of course might mean that <redacted> is not her real name. WP:AVOIDVICTIM says nothing about this. Also please note that the article is not a biography but an article about a criminal case or an event. TransVannian (talk) 06:48, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Hello TransVannian. Why do you feel the need to mention the name twice here? Please redact. It is a crystal clear matter of policy that WP:BLP applies to all articles about living and recently deceased people, whether or not the article is structured like a biography, and to user pages and talk pages too. When sources are in dispute, we certainly trust the BBC more than sensationalistic tabloid newspapers devoid of a reputation for accuracy and fact checking. If unreliable newspapers are the only sources of the name, then that is just another of many reasons to leave it out. It is well known that many journalistic organizations worldwide have a policy of not mentioning a rape victim's name. Though there may be occasional exceptions on Wikipedia as when the victim or relatives openly seek public attention, this does not seem to be one of those exceptions. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 15:11, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Cullen What is BBC? Just me trying to learn more. I learn just as much from these talk pages as I do in the help places. Thanks Tattoodwaitress (talk) 23:46, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Hi Tattoodwaitress--I can chime in on this one. Cullen is referring to source / sources from the news service, the British Broadcasting Corporation (and thankfully is not referring to those bunch of football hooligans, the Blades Business Crew). I, Jethrobot ^{drop me a line} (note: not a bot!) 23:54, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

BBC is the British Broadcasting Corporation, the broadcasting service sponsored by the government of the United Kingdom. It is comparable to PBS public radio and television in the United States, but much more dominant and influential. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:59, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

User:I Jethrobot and User talk:Cullen328 TattØØdẄaitre§ lĖTŝ tÅLĶ 13:29, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

This week's articles for improvement - 22 July 2013 to 28 July 2013

posted by Northamerica1000^(talk) 11:13, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Talkback on teahouse, THANKS :)

Hey thanx for ur help bt u got me a little wrong..please c to it again, thanx aish.ego (talk) 16:14, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Hey Jim, kindly chack out the talk page of the article Chennai Express again. aish.ego (talk) 07:47, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Watchlist question

I had a mobile question, and my friend told me you were the one to ask. I accidentally put the teahouse page on my watchlist, and I can't get it off. Because of how active that page is, my list is always flooded with questions and answers from that page. I have tried and tried to get it off, but it just won't go. All of this is happening on mobile. For all theinfo, go to User talk:Justaguy120 and look under the teahouse response page. Thanks much! Justaguy120 (talk) 15:48, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, but... that wasn't it. More on talk page.Justaguy120 (talk) 16:12, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Work

Please, see this. It's my new goal... Can you help? Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 15:57, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

"Friends"

Per the discussion on Justaguy120's talk page, I just want to voice that I too am a little hesitant about calling it "friendship," mostly because I also take a moderate position on the issue (and also because c'mon, how well do actually get to know each other through editing?) However, I am also reluctant of saying things that might produce a chilling effect on future interactions. I find it's a tough line to walk sometimes, particularly when I find myself unable to resolve conflicting sentiments like this and this. I, Jethrobot ^{drop me a line} (note: not a bot!) 00:07, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Your comments, friend (forgive me the expression), raise a lot of philosophical issues that I can only touch upon. I agree with Jimbo a bit more than Tarc on this matter, though I understand Tarc's point. As to how well we get to know each other, well, we can get to know each other pretty well as encyclopedia editors, since that is the specific hat we wear here. Online personas can approximate, or deviate from, real world personas. I interact on Facebook with several editors, and find those personas are more emotionally expressive but pretty good overlays of the corresponding Wikipedia personas. Mentoring Miss Bono has given me a window into social interactions of younger editors that may otherwise have been hidden to me.

To get to know me well, you would have to set up a High Sierra campsite with me, or spend a day on a construction jobsite with me, or cook, dine and wash dishes with me, or sit and converse with my disabled son and my wife and me. But even then, would you understand me as well as my sister who is just 15 months younger than me? But she suffered a brain aneuryism a few years ago, so how well do I know her now, or she knows me? Who truly knows anyone else? Who truly knows him or herself?

The only useful standard here on Wikipedia is an assessment of how well an editor contributes to improving the encyclopedia, either directly (by writing and expanding articles) or indirectly (by assisting and training other editors to do so).

In general, I find editing Wikipedia pleasurable and personally gratifying. I think that some editors are drawn to "drama" as a moth is drawn to the flame. In this regard, consider me perhaps the prudent sort of moth who circles at a distance, observing the creative destruction, but avoiding getting burned. I am interested in the governance of the project, but have no desire for spectacular self-immolation.

So these are some of my thoughts. Does this make sense? Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 01:22, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Y Absolutely, and I appreciate you taking the time to write thoughtfully on the matter. I agree with you on the standard by which to judge the usefulness of interactions (and on the more existential challenge of knowing others and the self.) I would say that I value being friendly to editors, but that creating friendships on WP has always been something incidental for me rather than something I seek out. Therefore, I am little taken aback when asked directly by another, but as you say, this reveals a window of how newer editor see Wikipedia, and there is value in that. Friends aside, It sounds like we have similar reasons for editing as well, and know the self-preservative value of keeping our distance from tense situations. I think some "drama" on Wikipedia is interesting and actually has the potential to make productive waves as opposed just haphazard splashing about. I, Jethrobot ^{drop me a line} (note: not a bot!) 07:41, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

OK... um... haven't been looking at this page, just mine. This WAS NOT a project. I simply wanted to... become friends is all. I had no idea it would cause oh so many probems, and if I had I never would have put it up. Perhaps I should have called it, "close editing partners", but "friends" seems a bit more practical, don't you think?Justaguy120 (talk) 02:15, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

To you, Justaguy120, I would make the following recommendations: Read the page, or at least the section, that you plan to comment on. Then, take a moment to think. Then, say something perceptive, incisive and and thoughtful. Thank you. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 02:23, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Sorry... when you first start Wikipedia it can get kind of stressful. Less stressful than my life, at least.Justaguy120 (talk) 02:38, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

File:Pie.jpeg

Justaguy120 (talk) has given you a fresh pie! Pies promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a piping hot pie, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Bon appetit!

Forgive me

Spread the tastiness of pies by adding {{subst:GivePie}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Fresh pie

Hey, thank you, Justaguy120. I appreciate the gesture. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:21, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

You're welcome. I thought you had logged off, LOL.Justaguy120 (talk) 03:28, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

I have a question. Is it rude to read through people's talk pages. And, I have a message for you on mine.Justaguy120 (talk) 03:32, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

No, it is not rude to read through other editor's talk pages, and in fact, it is a good way to get to know another editor better. However, if an editor was to overly focus on another editor's conversations, not for the purpose of collaboration on encyclopedia articles, but instead in an obsessive way, then this will not be looked upon with approval. Every editor's contributions here are available for review by every other editor, except those few that violate core policies and are hidden by administrators. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:50, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks much!Justaguy120 (talk) 03:57, 24 July 2013 (UTC) You put a lot of effort into your comments. I'm kind of impatient, but it's worth the wait when I see the thought you put into them. We apear to hve two conversations going at once. I have a message for you on my talk page. Glad to have a night owl to talk with at these lonely hours! :) Justaguy120 (talk) 03:57, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker)} I certainly hope it isn't rude to read through other people's talk pages! (Hi, Cullen.) --MelanieN (talk) 04:31, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Rest assured, MelanieN, that you are always welcome here for any reason.

Perhaps you might be suffering from insomnia, and my interminable ramblings might help you gain sleep. Avail yourself! Another time, you may wish to offer a trenchant observation. Please do so! Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:37, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

LOLJustaguy120 (talk) 04:40, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

You are now on my personal list of good guys, Justaguy120. Let's write some excellent encyclopedia articles together. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:50, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

I would love that but... not tonight. It's five till twelve where I am, and I had a rough day. I was about to log out when I saw this. Don't worry though. I plan on being on here ANYTIME I have spare time. I'll probably be on first thing in the morning. I get up anywhere from 8:30 to 10:00. I'll get on ASAP. Thanks much for deleting that one section. I'll see you in the morning! Check out my user page!Justaguy120 (talk) 04:57, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

No problem. You are on what I think of as "Chicago time" I am on the west coast, two hours behind. We have no deadlines here, so get your sleep. I am glad that we seem to have established a rapport. Good night. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 05:03, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Morning, Cullen!

You on yet?Justaguy120 (talk) 13:23, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Nope, he won't be here until 11 am or so (my time), it's now 0938 here. We'll have to wait patiently... :) Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 13:37, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

It's 6:49 where he is. Two more hours!Justaguy120 (talk) 13:50, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Here I am, Justaguy120. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 15:06, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for all the delay. Something came up. You on now?Justaguy120 (talk) 15:48, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Cullen328. You have new messages at Miss Bono's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

 Miss Bono [zootalk] 15:24, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

You there?

We haven't been on at the same time all day. How about now? Justaguy120 (talk) 03:12, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Here I am.But I don't have to be "on" to answer your questions. I am self employed, so I move on and off fleetingly many times during waking hours, moving to interactions with paying customers, immediate family members, long time friends on social media, and Wikipedia editors here. And in and among those interactions, I work. I do challenging and exacting construction work with noisy and dangerous power tools. The work I do is so specialized that the company I own is the only one in Northern California capable of doing what we do every working day. So don't expect to see me "on" for prolonged periods. If you leave an inquiry here, I will get to it when I can, and I do get email alerts whenever anyone posts on my user page. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:01, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Sorry. I was just hoping we could edit an article or something together.Justaguy120 (talk) 04:06, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

No need to be sorry. You may know that Miss Bono is working on an article about the book "U2 on U2". If you can find reviews in reliable sources, that would be great. Also, she is looking for information for the article Adam Clayton about recent changes in his relationship. Something about a Brazilian model? And on my user page, I have a list of red links. These are article topics I am considering writing articles about. Do any of these strike your interest? Exercise your Google skills, and if any seem unclear, let me know. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:15, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Just so you know I have ZERO knowledge of U2, other than references on talk pages. But I will see what I can do. I have a Kindle Paperwhite, so I can't see color. And, unrelated, what does it mean to review an article? The other day, I got a message that said I Jethrobot reveiwed my user page.Justaguy120 (talk) 04:23, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Reviewing

Reviewing is pretty much the lowest level of basic scrutiny. It just means someone looked at a page and determined that it wasn't overtly malicious, or total hogwash. By the way, a good editor doesn't need to have subject expertise to make valuable contributions, at least in the area of "general knowledge". Though I would never presume to do substantive editing on advanced particle physics topics, I will confidently edit biographies of people I've never previously heard of. The principles of a good biography apply to every person who has ever lived, and I am smart enough to read and evaluate the sources. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:37, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

By the way, I consider Harry Yount and George Meany to be my best biographical work here, though there are others I'm proud of. Look them over and let me know what you think is weak, and why. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:45, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks much! I'll look them over in a few.Justaguy120 (talk) 15:52, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

I haven't read it all yet, but Harry Yount is pretty good. The two weaknesses I noticed were, 1: His birth date and pace of birth had (likely) on the end. Can you find it anywhere for sure? 2:The first paragraph was a little confusing, and felt like a run-on sentence. That's all for now. I will continue to look over them later.Justaguy120 (talk) 16:18, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

As explained in the body of the article, there are differences among sources for the date and place of his birth. In my opinion, Supernaugh is the most credible as a modern scholar, but we can't ignore the contradictory 19th and early 20th century sources. That's why the word "likely" is there. I will take a close look at the sentence structure. Thanks. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 16:54, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

No prob.Justaguy120 (talk) 15:54, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Platypus

I'd like to re-delete it. You can save the source code on your computer, and use it later as inspiration for writing your neutral version. But this content needs to go, per the AfD close. Please let me know when you're ready for it to be deleted. -- Y not? 15:22, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

I just got my computer back from the repair shop after having the hard drive replaced. I am editing with a smart phone at the moment. Please give me a bit of time to get the computer up and running smoothly. Thank you. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 02:15, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

82.22.18.121

I just replied to 82's comments regarding (again) gender-neutral pronouns, and found this: "The erasure you are attempting by silencing someone for wanting visibility on Wikipedia is really, really upsetting, and I shall be mentioning it to every trans* internet group I know, and Kate Bornstein personally." Is this a threat to out someone, or should I leave this as NOTHERE behaviour on ANI? hmssolent\^{You rang?} _{ship's log} 15:49, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

I do not see that statement as a threat to out anyone. Let's take this discussion to the Kate Bornstein article talk page, where this matter was discussed at length a couple of years ago. I still favor the practice of avoiding the use of pronouns to refer to Bornstein as the least controversial solution. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 18:02, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Having now read the IP editor's talk page, it seems clear to me that these were good faith edits, not vandalism, and I have made that clear on that page. Some will strongly favor the use of these nonstandard transgender pronouns, while others will oppose. I will continue to favor the compromise solution of avoiding personal pronouns to describe Bornstein, as I wrote on the article talk page back in 2011. That was the stable solution for approximately two years. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 21:35, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Such a discussion is already underway on the Bornstein talk page. hmssolent\^{You rang?} _{ship's log} 22:18, 29 July 2013 (UTC)